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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 19th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:29 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

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schestowitz Bush been sued: http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… Sep 19 07:38
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schestowitz Now it’s Nvidia taking a tumble: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008… http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008… Sep 19 08:21
schestowitz And Creative also: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008… Sep 19 08:22
Tallken normal for creative, do their sound cards work with Vista as they did with XP yet? Sep 19 08:31
Tallken due to licensing issues Sep 19 08:31
Tallken they couldn’t enable all the functionality in their driver in Vista Sep 19 08:32
Tallken lame Sep 19 08:32
schestowitz Same in Linux. Sep 19 08:32
schestowitz They are still a no-go area for GNU/Linux because they don’t do much to deserve business. Sep 19 08:32
schestowitz http://too.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default Sep 19 08:33
schestowitz Oops. (that, BTW, is Brin’s new blog). I meant to paste this one: http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?b… Sep 19 08:34
Tallken massive discussion @ #ubuntu-offtopic about a home user wants from his/her OS Sep 19 08:37
Tallken ouch 226 pages on that Creative thread Sep 19 08:55
schestowitz Yes, half a million pageviews. Sep 19 08:56
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schestowitz There is this new Red Hat article which makes it seem like Linus initiated the GNU/Linux operating system, which he didn’t. There needs to be something to distinguish here. Linux® is not an operating system. It’s a platform, a kernel. Why can’t Red Hat and Novell ever get it right? They bypass GNU and FSF. Sep 19 09:49
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Tallken URL? Sep 19 10:40
schestowitz I’ve lost it. Sep 19 10:42
Tallken LOL Sep 19 10:42
Tallken I suppose that’s why FSF wants everyone to treat the system as GNU/Linux Sep 19 10:43
schestowitz The problem is that they sort of rewrite history and new ‘Linux’ users believe that it was created in 1991. They therefore miss the philosophy entirely and are willing to turn their O/S into another OS X. Sep 19 10:46
Tallken ROFL Sep 19 10:50
Tallken ya Sep 19 10:50
Tallken but most of them get fed up Sep 19 10:50
Tallken and buy a Mac Sep 19 10:50
Tallken the problem is Sep 19 10:50
schestowitz Of course, because they fail to see what GNU/Linux *is* Sep 19 10:50
schestowitz If they don’t understand and value their freedom, then short-term comfort is all they’ll judge by. Sep 19 10:51
Tallken and let me check if it indeed was “our” “arch-enemy” Miguel de Icaza who said this Sep 19 10:51
Tallken – Googling – Sep 19 10:51
schestowitz de Icazq turns GNU/Linux into poor man’s Windows and makes developers feel that way too. Which is wrong. Sep 19 10:52
Tallken Yay I’m the master of Google :D Sep 19 10:59
Tallken actually it was in Miguel’s blog Sep 19 10:59
Tallken lol Sep 19 10:59
Tallken anyway, in this rather old post Sep 19 11:00
Tallken he bashes GNU/Linux developers who migrated to OSX Sep 19 11:00
Tallken http://tirania.org/blog/archiv… Sep 19 11:00
Tallken (apropos GTK3) Sep 19 11:00
seller_liar Tallken: indirect mozilla firefox attack Sep 19 11:01
Tallken hum? Sep 19 11:01
schestowitz Where? Sep 19 11:01
seller_liar Tallken: remember , icaza talks about mozilla developers Sep 19 11:02
Tallken “rhult, hallski and kris” ? Sep 19 11:03
seller_liar Tallken: mozilla develpers use mac Sep 19 11:03
Tallken they’re free to do so Sep 19 11:03
Tallken as long as Firefox works well and with no EULAs lol Sep 19 11:04
seller_liar Tallken: I know ,but icaza attacks mozilla devs Sep 19 11:04
Tallken hum ok, didn’t know that Sep 19 11:05
seller_liar http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/ Sep 19 11:06
seller_liar what f*cking hell is this? Sep 19 11:06
Tallken LOL Sep 19 11:06
schestowitz They reverse it. Sep 19 11:06
schestowitz It should be Novell/Microsoft/Linux Sep 19 11:06
seller_liar schestowitz: how to convince people about ms-novell bad tatics? Sep 19 11:07
seller_liar schestowitz: m$-novell inderectly attacks red hat too Sep 19 11:08
Tallken you can’t Sep 19 11:09
Tallken just spread the site Sep 19 11:09
seller_liar Tallken: why? Sep 19 11:09
Tallken if they don’t hear once Sep 19 11:09
Tallken probably you should let them go on with their life Sep 19 11:09
Tallken because I know an old Slackware user Sep 19 11:10
seller_liar Tallken: politics is not optional Sep 19 11:10
Tallken who is using openSuSE Sep 19 11:10
Tallken and for him openSuSE being sponsored by Novell means nothing Sep 19 11:10
seller_liar Tallken: people always have this behavior Sep 19 11:11
Tallken I gave up on him Sep 19 11:11
Tallken he was a fscking Slackware user Sep 19 11:11
Tallken using Linux way before I did Sep 19 11:11
Tallken well versed on Linux story and apps Sep 19 11:11
Tallken I mean Sep 19 11:12
seller_liar Tallken: And , why using Opensuse Sep 19 11:12
seller_liar Tallken: He did not know about gnu? Sep 19 11:12
Tallken he does know all that Sep 19 11:12
seller_liar Tallken: gnu is politics and ethical decisions Sep 19 11:12
schestowitz seller_liar: they attack the top contributor. Sep 19 11:12
Tallken I understand new people using openSuSE Sep 19 11:13
schestowitz From the news: http://www.sdtimes.com/RED_HAT_TOPS_LIST_OF_CO… (Red Hat tops list of corporate Linux code contributors  ) Sep 19 11:13
Tallken or even Microsoft if they ever launch one Sep 19 11:13
Tallken just not “old” Slackware users who should know better Sep 19 11:13
seller_liar Tallken: Yes but citing the competitor is a very dirty attack Sep 19 11:13
schestowitz They try to hit GNU/Linux by harming its developers and blood supply. As for Novell, it’s still a proprietary s/w company that promotes .NET, ActiveX and other such junk. Sep 19 11:13
Tallken the problem is they now have the money to keep things flowing Sep 19 11:14
Tallken I suppose a) most developers don’t care ; b) been brainwashed ; c) believe they can get the best of it and ignore the bad Sep 19 11:14
Tallken I believe in c) honestly Sep 19 11:15
schestowitz Tallken: OpenSUSE makes SLED/SLED, i.e. Microsoft-taxed Linux. It weakens contributors to GNU/Linux and empowers Microsoft <put technology name here> Sep 19 11:15
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes  roy , I know , I remember about netware Sep 19 11:15
seller_liar Talken: Every act in society ,whenever good or bad, have dual consequences Sep 19 11:16
seller_liar Tallken: Your user someday will pay for the act Sep 19 11:16
schestowitz Well, they share ba roof. Sep 19 11:16
seller_liar schestowitz: What? Sep 19 11:17
schestowitz OSDL is said to have collapsed because Stuart Cohen nodded to what Novell did. Sep 19 11:17
Tallken BTW, found this now by accident Sep 19 11:17
Tallken http://mdzlog.wordpress.com/2008/0… Sep 19 11:17
schestowitz When Red Hat and Novell share a roof at Linus Foundation, that means that Microsoft agenda is up there to conflict with Red Hat’s Sep 19 11:17
seller_liar schestowitz: Yes, remember, some time ago I have discussed this Sep 19 11:17
seller_liar schestowitz: And can have more…. Sep 19 11:18
schestowitz Should Red Hat swallow the Mono and Moonlight poison pill? Well, Novell helps in dividing because it’s irrational for Red Hat to hook up with a company that compared it to cancer. Sep 19 11:18
Tallken LOL only understood now what you were saying Sep 19 11:19
Tallken Greg Kroah-Hartman is from Novell? Sep 19 11:19
seller_liar Tallken: Yes Sep 19 11:19
schestowitz Until a joint roof like Linux Foundation (I made a typo earlier) rids itself from Microsoft/Novell influence, there will be trouble. Sep 19 11:19
schestowitz Tallken: yes, he is. Sep 19 11:19
seller_liar Do not believe in Linux Foundation Sep 19 11:19
schestowitz See this one: http://dustinkirkland.wordpress.com/2008/09/1… (with pictures) Sep 19 11:20
seller_liar Linus, Alan, Ted Sep 19 11:20
schestowitz Alan is with Red hat. Sep 19 11:20
schestowitz He denounced the Novell deal and advocated GPLv3 several times. Sep 19 11:20
seller_liar schestowitz: but all them have fear about Sol Sep 19 11:20
schestowitz Linus is torn apart because the sellouts from Novell he must be nice to (Greg, Novell’s funding, etc.) Sep 19 11:20
seller_liar schestowitz: and all believe in Linux and not in Gnu Linux Sep 19 11:21
schestowitz seller_liar: I care about Free software. Linux has excellent hardware support, so it’s safe to bet on it as the kernel right now. Sep 19 11:21
schestowitz Solaris/OpenSolaris is still GPL-allergic, by design. Sep 19 11:22
Tallken I don’t think Linus will abstain from acting if needed Sep 19 11:22
schestowitz Tallken: he sort of denounced what I do Sep 19 11:22
Tallken the question Linus isn’t a FSF follower; they have overlapping interests Sep 19 11:22
Tallken schestowitz: denounced how? Sep 19 11:22
schestowitz Tallken: he uses Fedora at least…. no Novell for him. Sep 19 11:22
Tallken but for the time, I doubt he’ll take actions Sep 19 11:22
schestowitz Tallken: he said that anti-Novell sentiments were not productive. Wasn’t specific about his targets though… Sep 19 11:23
Tallken unless Novell does some major screw up that points blatantly their objectives Sep 19 11:23
Tallken Well, they aren’t Sep 19 11:23
schestowitz Tallken: Novell has already done that. Sep 19 11:23
Tallken in his point of view Sep 19 11:23
Tallken as I said Sep 19 11:23
schestowitz “Intellectual property peace of mind” from their PR Director. Sep 19 11:23
Tallken “”the question Linus isn’t a FSF follower; they have overlapping interests”” Sep 19 11:23
schestowitz They try to shut up the developers ahead of the latest announcement. I inquired with journalists and wrote about it. Sep 19 11:23
schestowitz Novell/Microsoft are like spooks that try to manufacture and control public perception. Sep 19 11:24
Tallken may be dismissed as some dirty marketing, as expected (unfortunately) from companies… They’re leveraging their partnership. Doesn’t mean they’ll stop promoting Linux Sep 19 11:24
seller_liar Tallken: only “Linux” , no Gnu Linux Sep 19 11:25
Tallken schestowitz: I understand what you’re saying and I agree Sep 19 11:25
schestowitz At whose expense? Java? Red Hat? GNU? Fight against software patents? Sep 19 11:25
schestowitz Novell acts selfishly for its survival. Sep 19 11:25
Tallken my point is just, for Linus, there hasn’t been a clear reason for him to intervene Sep 19 11:25
seller_liar Tallken: Yes, Sep 19 11:25
schestowitz See my posts from last night. I believe Novell is on the verge of bankruptcy and it relies on Microsoft for some lifeline./ Sep 19 11:25
Tallken I may be wrong here, but he didn’t even sign that document dismissing binary only modules, did he? Sep 19 11:26
schestowitz Novell already seemed to be on the cliff when Messman was ousted and Novell came to Microsoft, their decades-long fierce competitor (and defendant in a major court case) Sep 19 11:26
schestowitz Tallken: you’re correcy. Sep 19 11:27
Tallken so, Linus is an ally of open source, but not software libre Sep 19 11:28
seller_liar Tallken: Linus live the old system with a new methodology (free-open source) Sep 19 11:28
Tallken seller_liar: diz essa frase em português que eu não percebi nada :D Sep 19 11:29
seller_liar Tallken: vc está brincando comigo né Sep 19 11:29
Tallken (I said him to rephrase the sentence cmg) Sep 19 11:29
schestowitz For all I can tell, GPL was an afterthought for Linus — a way of attracting more devs. Sep 19 11:29
Tallken (I said him to rephrase the sentence) Sep 19 11:29
Tallken lol Sep 19 11:29
Tallken rephrase then Sep 19 11:29
seller_liar Talken:Linus vive o mesmo sistema mercantil ,só mudou a metodologia (open source) Sep 19 11:29
Tallken ah Sep 19 11:30
Tallken “Linus lives the old system with a new methodology (free-open source)” Sep 19 11:30
seller_liar Tallken: Ou seja , dinheiro e técnica sobre politica Sep 19 11:30
Tallken not really, it was a carefully crafted license which allowed open-source to be kept open-source Sep 19 11:31
Tallken originally, he only allowed distribution in source form Sep 19 11:31
Tallken binary distribution was forbidden Sep 19 11:31
Tallken For schestowitz, translation: “Meaning, money and technical knowledge over politics/philosophy” Sep 19 11:31
schestowitz Well, there wasn’t as much as 650MB of Free software. Sep 19 11:31
schestowitz How much does OOo, for example, take up now? Sep 19 11:32
seller_liar Tallken: ok , thanks Sep 19 11:32
Tallken seller_liar: Ya, undertood now :) Sep 19 11:32
Tallken wayyyyyyyyyyyyy to much xD Sep 19 11:32
Tallken let me see if I have the debs Sep 19 11:32
Tallken nop Sep 19 11:32
schestowitz 20 GB on the Debian repos (or more) Sep 19 11:32
schestowitz OOo 3.0 is out later this month. Sep 19 11:33
schestowitz I think around 150 MB in size (binary, no extensions) Sep 19 11:33
Tallken hum? that much? Sep 19 11:33
Tallken but in source? Sep 19 11:33
schestowitz With clipart? Sep 19 11:34
Tallken ah Sep 19 11:34
schestowitz Ha! I was right: http://download.openoffice.org/680/   150 MB for GNU/Linux Sep 19 11:34
schestowitz The deb is 147 MB Sep 19 11:35
Tallken finished reading http://mdzlog.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/greg… Sep 19 11:36
Tallken LOL @ “When this sort of thing happens on mailing lists, it’s called trolling.” Sep 19 11:37
Tallken (at the very end) Sep 19 11:37
schestowitz He’s not a troll, he a lizard (SUSE). Sep 19 11:37
Tallken lulz Sep 19 11:38
Tallken anyway Sep 19 11:38
Tallken going offline Sep 19 11:38
Tallken [[]] Sep 19 11:38
Tallken cya later Sep 19 11:38
schestowitz Will do Sep 19 11:40
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schestowitz Someone has alerted me that this page is missing: http://www.apdip.net/projects/gif . It’s in Google cache:… Sep 19 12:22
schestowitz “This is Google’s cache of http://www.apdip.net/projects/gif. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on 8 Sep 2008 06:03:49 GMT. The current page could have changed in the meantime.” [Works OKAY.] Maybe downtime? “The service is not available. Please try again later.” http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.apdip…. It’s an important ODF page. Sep 19 12:22
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schestowitz Got this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/19/why-no… From the source: “So you might think about a way to include the content on your website as an entry or referral any time such an argument comes up again. Just point to this page and maybe these arguments from AlexH and Co., what makes DotNET different than lets say Python become tiresome and pointless.” Sep 19 13:01
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twitter The Nvidia news is sad, but it goes to show that cooperating with M$ is not really a winning strategy. Sep 19 13:52
twitter Bruce Perens wrote some stuff about them doing bad things to free software acceleration. Sep 19 13:52
schestowitz Got URL? Sep 19 13:52
schestowitz I knew they screw with KDE4 (not deliberately) Sep 19 13:53
twitter I’ll dig it up.  I tried a google search the other day and got nowhere. Sep 19 13:53
twitter Here’s a start, the story of 3dFx http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?s… Sep 19 13:58
schestowitz Oh, I see now. Very Microsoft-like. Sep 19 14:03
twitter It seems connected to OpenGL too. Sep 19 14:05
twitter Yes, very M$ like. Sep 19 14:05
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wagan anybody here? Sep 19 14:06
schestowitz twitter: Recent Nvidia stories: Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Nvidia sued for violations of federal securities law : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Analyst says AMD gaining ground vs. Intel, Nvidia : http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/analyst-says… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Nvidia chipsets are history : http://www.theinquirer.net/feeds/rss/generic/en… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz How Closed Does Nvid[i]a want to Be? : http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/07/ho… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Nvidia “opens can of whoop-ass” on itself : http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/0… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Kernel space: drivers that don’t make the kernel scene : http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2008/06… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz How NVidia impedes Free Desktop adoption : http://vizzzion.org/?blogentry=819 Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Linux Foundation points finger at Nvidia : http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9975720-7.html?par… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz Position Statement on Linux Kernel Modules : https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Ker… Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz NVidia says no to request to release open source drivers, once again : http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2588 Sep 19 14:07
wagan what the hell happens here? Sep 19 14:07
wagan what the hell happens here? Sep 19 14:07
wagan what the hell happens here? Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz :-) Sep 19 14:07
wagan spam Sep 19 14:07
schestowitz We were just having a discussion about NVidia. Sep 19 14:07
wagan ok sorry Sep 19 14:08
schestowitz Trying to find some particfular old article. Sep 19 14:08
wagan good evening Sep 19 14:08
schestowitz twitter found http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=… Sep 19 14:08
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schestowitz And it’s relevant because massive layoffs are about to hit. Sep 19 14:09
twitter Here’s a reversal of the usual story about Nvidia and 3D graphics.  Back in 2000, they were caught using GPL’d code in their non free drivers.  http://slashdot.org/features/00/05/01/0047219.shtml Sep 19 14:13
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twitter Stealing free software and using it to harm free software, that’s the non free software business model. Sep 19 14:13
schestowitz Well, that’s Novell. Sep 19 14:14
trmanco http://groups.google.com/group/gnu.misc.discuss/… Sep 19 14:15
schestowitz http://www.channelregister.co…. “Nvidia is to rid itself of 6.5 per cent of its worldwide workforce, the graphics chip maker has admitted.” Sep 19 14:16
twitter Can you find a non free software program that does not have roots in free software?  Browsers came from mosaic.  Math programs came from Maxsyma. Sep 19 14:16
schestowitz Free software exists in many applications. I reused a few things in my Free software too (very little though) Sep 19 14:19
schestowitz PPM importer for example Sep 19 14:19
schestowitz If you ever want to intimidate McAfee (who attack FOSS), then mention GPL violations (corruption too): http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&nu… Sep 19 14:21
schestowitz Microsoft still uses celebs to embarrass itself: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/International_Business/De… Sep 19 14:31
schestowitz Sweatie B is going mad again. http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtrac… Sep 19 14:34
schestowitz “At Microsoft’s company meeting today, CEO Steve Ballmer was in full cheerleader mode, running around the stage, high-fiving Microsoft employees at Safeco Field, breathing hard and yelling into the microphone, said one observer, who asked to remain anonymous while describing an event that was closed to the public.” Sep 19 14:34
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twitter Ha ha.  I like how the article explodes the logic of Ballmer’s iPhone hate. Sep 19 14:59
twitter Ballmer does not want to build a phone because he thinks no single phone will ever have more than 25% of the market.  An OS, he says, can dominate more than that. Sep 19 15:00
schestowitz That’s flawed logic Sep 19 15:00
twitter In more than one way.  The author goes on to say M$ has 12% of the mobile market … Sep 19 15:00
schestowitz Mind you, at this very moment I’m plowing through many articles about Microsoft’s shutting down its Halo developer Sep 19 15:00
schestowitz XBox has cost Microsoft _so much_ and I can’t help wondering how much money the company is losing. Sep 19 15:01
twitter What it really boils down to is that M$ is a one trick pony.  Zune, xbox and others are massive failures. Sep 19 15:01
twitter Probably because they all share such a poor base, which should be the number 1 failure, Windows. Sep 19 15:02
schestowitz I posted this one some hours ago. You might want to take a glimpse: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.li… Sep 19 15:02
schestowitz I notice that Google Groups went through an overhaul. No more bump-based display and sorting of threads, which is good. Sep 19 15:03
schestowitz Windows is not so profitable either, but it’s close to Office. Office too is copied illegally (with Microsoft’s silent consent), so it doesn’t generate as much revenue as people imagine. Sep 19 15:03
schestowitz More Microsoft propaganda (spotted 10 seconds ago): http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/09/18/bu… ( Microsoft: 83 pct of Montenegro software pirated ) Coming from the company that says so-called “piracy” heps it. Sep 19 15:05
schestowitz http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/n… “Microsoft explained that an issue with the Exchange Web Service component is leading the update to send some servers into a continuous crash cycle.” Sep 19 15:09
schestowitz Search business is still falling for Microsoft as well < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/comscore-rele… >. Not good, not good. Sep 19 15:09
schestowitz Another one (Microsoft is on a roll at the moment): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-10041856-36.html (“A would-be social network called Wallop has shut its doors, according to a message on the home page.”) Sep 19 15:11
schestowitz http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/17598/Peter-… ( Peter Moore: MS Considered Buying Nintendo ) Sep 19 15:14
twitter The blackouts, we saw that earlier.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/210145 Sep 19 15:24
twitter It’s nice to see the backlash. Sep 19 15:24
schestowitz People like to describe XP as though it’s suddenly a comfy cushion, not a malware magnet. is there an xpfailurelog? I’m amused by the idea of comparing Mandriva 2008.1 on this PC to something like XP or Vista. Sep 19 15:25
twitter There was a good comparison of Mepis and Vista, but it has been taken down I think. Sep 19 15:27
twitter No, I take that back, the take down was a comparison of Outlook, Thunderbird and Kontact. Sep 19 15:28
twitter Where did you get the blackout quote? Sep 19 15:28
twitter never mind, got it. Sep 19 15:29
schestowitz SJVN did a good MEPIS-Vista comparison over a year ago. It’s in eWeek/Ziff-Davis. Sep 19 15:29
schestowitz I have heaps of Vista failures documented (over a thousand). It’s like that some of them you could find handy. Sep 19 15:29
schestowitz *likely Sep 19 15:30
twitter Yes, it is. Sep 19 15:31
twitter I don’t know of an XP failure log. Sep 19 15:31
schestowitz I’m finding lots of stuff today about Microsoft’s $300 million advertising. Sep 19 15:32
schestowitz We ‘owe’ one to Apple for creating a negative stereotype for Windows and having it stick with hundreds of millions. Sep 19 15:32
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twitter This is the power of broadcast media, which is ultimately harmful. Sep 19 15:34
schestowitz Yes, and Helios was trying racing cars to promote tux. :-) No budget of $300 million or $500 million (according to otyh Sep 19 15:34
twitter People already knew M$ sucks.  Apple simply validated the viewpoint through advertising. Sep 19 15:34
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schestowitz http://www.fairhome.co.uk/2008/09/… “Japan-based games console company Nintendo came last in the rankings, with a score of 0.8, whilst world renowned software-maker Microsoft was placed second last with a score of just 2.2.” Sep 19 15:35
twitter New windows versions are always a low point for M$ because they must break their old version to sell the new. Sep 19 15:36
schestowitz There are tons of articles about Pete Moore and his interview with the Guardian. He talks about his departure too. Just like the head of the Zune project, he appears to have abandoned this failed project. Zune was headless for about 6  months, IIRC. Let me find the ref. Sep 19 15:37
schestowitz Oh, it’s the use of the word “gang” by Microsoft which amused me. Here are the details: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advoc Sep 19 15:38
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schestowitz twitter: I notice that CA is boosting Microsoft at the moment (after their corruption scandal and reappointment at the top). Can you figure out or do you know their relationship with Microsoft? I can only google it to find out, but maybe you know some history about the pair. Sep 19 15:41
twitter The story of XP and Vista is the same as XP and 98 or 98 and 95.  M$ makes each version suck a little harder, so the last version always looks good by comparison.  The restrictions grow but things that matter continue to suck. Sep 19 15:42
schestowitz http://www.microsoft.com/isv/ca/ Sep 19 15:42
twitter will try. Sep 19 15:42
schestowitz twitter: I hear that it’s revisionist. XP was not resisted nearly as strongly as Vista. Microsoft uses this big lie to make it seem like Vista is inevitable. Sep 19 15:42
schestowitz This is why I ask: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Devel…  Why would CA sponsor a study like this? What has it got to /gain/? Sep 19 15:43
schestowitz http://community.ca.com/blogs/iam/archive/2008/04/0… Sep 19 15:43
twitter this is not entirely revisionist and it does not make Vista inevitable.  Each new version of Windows has met greater user resistance.  The end of that trend is rejection. Sep 19 15:45
schestowitz This one on CA and Java is over a decade old: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0… I’ll try to see if there’s something newer about this pair. Sep 19 15:45
schestowitz Anyway, I’m leaving it aside for now. It’s worth exploring later because Microsoft can fund self-serving studies in all sorts of ways. Sep 19 15:47
twitter I don’t know anything about CA but this looks like standard Slog to me.  Pretend you have something great and you have already won, reward those who play ball, publish the results as independent and so on. Sep 19 15:48
twitter Isn’t java gpl now? Sep 19 15:48
schestowitz Yes. Sep 19 15:48
schestowitz They games some polls before. Let me find it. Sep 19 15:48
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-… Sep 19 15:49
twitter Given that, you would think people would dump .NET like the ugly shit it is. Sep 19 15:49
schestowitz Here it is about Microsoft gaming a poll against Java: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/26/m… Sep 19 15:50
schestowitz New: “[Microsoft] guerrilla marketing campaign at VMware’s annual worldwide conference in Las Vegas.” http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0… Sep 19 15:52
schestowitz “Guerilla marketing campaigns, he said, were “what the follower does, not what the leader does”. Sep 19 15:52
schestowitz Another report said that he recgonised the slog tactics because he worked as a Microsoft exec Sep 19 15:52
schestowitz Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “…cut off Netscape’s air supply.” Sep 19 15:53
schestowitz Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare):  “To combat NSCP we have to have [sic] position the browser as ‘going away’ and do deeper integration on Windows. The stronger way to communicate this is to have a ‘new release’ of Windows and make a big deal out of it. We will thus position Memphis as ‘Windows 98′.” Sep 19 15:53
schestowitz Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “The major reason for this is: to combat [Netscape] we have to position the browser as “going away” and do deeper integration on Windows. The stronger way to communicate this is to have a “new release” of Windows and make a big deal out of it. We will thus position Memphis as “Windows 98. IE integration will be the most compelling feature of Memphis.” Sep 19 15:54
schestowitz Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare): “Number two is move Netscape out of the win32 client area.” Sep 19 15:54
twitter CA seems to have a lot in common with M$ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wang Sep 19 16:05
schestowitz Nothing about Microsoft in this page. I still read. Sep 19 16:06
schestowitz “Wang is also well known for his philanthropic works with such causes as the Make a Wish Foundation, and Smile Train among others. His donation of over $50 million dollars to the State University of New York at Stony Brook for the construction of the Charles B. Wang Center was the largest in history to a SUNY school.” Sep 19 16:06
schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/gov… Sep 19 16:07
schestowitz Robber barons. You do the crime, you pay some PR money. Sep 19 16:07
twitter Easy to do when you hand yourself a $670 million bonus. Sep 19 16:07
schestowitz 2003: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9… (Computer Associates Announces Layoffs) Sep 19 16:09
schestowitz 2001: http://www.crn.com/it-channel/18817439 (Layoffs At Computer Associates) Sep 19 16:09
twitter The company seems to have been destroyed in the 90s.  It would be sad if they were really reduced to .NET nasty. Sep 19 16:10
schestowitz It’s not just Kumar: http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/aml… Sep 19 16:10
schestowitz “Back in 2001, a Texas billionaire and conservative political activist named Sam Wyly launched a proxy contest at Computer Associates, attacking accounting practices at the Long Island software company. Soon thereafter, the already-embattled CA began its descent to near-death. Its infamous “35-day month” accounting–and the ensuing effort to hide that accounting from government investigators–led to the conviction of the company’s Sep 19 16:10
schestowitz CEO, GC, and several other high-level executives.” Sep 19 16:10
schestowitz twitter: Novell and Corel are dying (now in buybacks mentality) and they both degraded to .NET after submissive e deals with Microsoft. Sep 19 16:11
schestowitz Oh oh! Sep 19 16:11
schestowitz Bloomberg: “CA Founder Wang `Personally Directed’ Fraud, Ex-Chief Says” Sep 19 16:12
schestowitz http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/12052219… “Former CA chairman Sanjay Kumar, from the prison cell where he is serving a 12-year term for his role in a massive accounting fraud scandal, pointed the finger at one-time boss and friend Charles Wang.” Sep 19 16:12
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient… Sep 19 16:13
trmanco http://www.desktoplinux.com/ne… Sep 19 16:26
schestowitz http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=9… Sep 19 16:29
schestowitz They are so protective of their identity Sep 19 16:29
schestowitz http://www.happyassassin.net/2008/08/… Sep 19 16:31
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trmanco have you seen the new slackware logo? Sep 19 16:39
trmanco a lot of people don’t like it Sep 19 16:39
schestowitz I haven’t seen it. Sep 19 16:39
trmanco http://groups.google.com/group/alt.os.linux.slac… Sep 19 16:40
trmanco http://www.slackware.com/grfx/shared/logo.png Sep 19 16:40
schestowitz This article really pissed me off, so I could help leaving a comment: http://blogs.itworldcanada.com/insights/2008/… Sep 19 16:41
schestowitz It’s bad. Sep 19 16:41
schestowitz (the logo Sep 19 16:41
trmanco yes Sep 19 16:41
trmanco I read slackwars Sep 19 16:42
schestowitz Here is Gates’ pyramid scheme (it’s partly his inde that he invests in): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10046277-16.html (Intellectual Ventures: A massive patent pyramid scheme?) Sep 19 16:43
trmanco I see you left a comment :) Sep 19 16:44
schestowitz I was angry. :-) Sep 19 16:46
trmanco lol Sep 19 16:46
trmanco :p Sep 19 16:46
schestowitz How does one combat $billions of brainwash. My patents too were fool. They believe everything they read in the press. Recently I found the husband of the former head of the Gates Fundation [sic] planting stories in time magazine to glorify this fundation. Sep 19 16:48
trmanco :| Sep 19 16:48
schestowitz It’s a circular catch. A criminal criminally controls the press, which in turn tells the criminal’s story. A lot of the economical depression that’s cooking at the moment is caused by the same type of issue. It’s all greed and corruption. Bear in mind that Microsoft might still be losing $billions and they attack those who dare to point this out. Sep 19 16:51
schestowitz Mac fan defends convenience over freedom: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10046376-16.html surprise, surprise Sep 19 16:53
trmanco what do you mean? Sep 19 17:00
trmanco who is the Mac fan? Sep 19 17:01
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schestowitz Asay. He hardly gives a s* about Freedom, yet he’s a self-appointed “open source” figure. Sep 19 17:02
trmanco oh ok, for moments I thought you were referring to Mark Shuttleworth Sep 19 17:05
schestowitz Some guy is disputing me in a USENET thread, so I send a pointer to http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif Sep 19 17:09
trmanco lol Sep 19 17:09
schestowitz They harass Cisco at the moment. Cisco is among the loudest complainers about the patent system Sep 19 17:10
schestowitz That’s about the man that Bill Gates is using (and funding) to rob the industry and game/abuse USPTO: http://techdirt.com/articles/2… Sep 19 17:11
schestowitz “So what is new in this one? Well, less than a year after raising a $1 billion patent hoarding fund, he’s out raising a new $2.5 billion fund. So it seems like he’s good at getting press and raising money — but not so much actually making money at this point (well, Myhrvold personally is doing fine, since the piece notes that he gets a 2% management fee, just like a VC).” Sep 19 17:11
schestowitz “And that’s where the saber rattling comes in. The article notes that Cisco and Verizon have paid up between $200 and $400 million as licensees — though, to make it more confusing some of that is invested back into the fund for equity.” Sep 19 17:11
schestowitz I don’t remember the figure for sure, trmanco. Maybe you can help me out here: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/09/… Sep 19 17:26
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_Doug ???? Sep 19 17:31
twitter have you done a wrap up article Intellectual Ventures and it’s M$ backing yet?  Intellectual Vultures is a good name for them. Sep 19 17:31
schestowitz Kroes vs Apple: http://www.itwire.com/conte… Sep 19 17:32
schestowitz twitter: I’ll do another one tonight. Seen the one from yesterday yet? Sep 19 17:32
schestowitz I’ve just put this in Digg to raise awareness of people who don’t read BN: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_is… (4 Diggs in 18 minutes) Sep 19 17:33
_Doug billg copies the Apple  ‘I’m a Mac, and I’m a PC”‘ .. Sep 19 17:33
_Doug http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/b… Sep 19 17:33
schestowitz Yes, seen that. There’s more: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/International_… Sep 19 17:34
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twitter OK, I saw it.  I did not remember the attack on Cisco. Sep 19 17:37
twitter Here’s an old run down on how XP sucks worse than 98 did.  I ran into it cleaning my bookmarks.  The original site is gone but archive.org has it http://web.archive.org/web/200509062… Sep 19 17:38
schestowitz “November 15, 2002: Bruce Schneier recommends this article.” Sep 19 17:41
schestowitz “”Why so many defects?   The fact that Windows XP makes your computer dependent on Microsoft computers is bad not only because you lose control over your computer, but because Microsoft produces defective software and doesn’t patch defects quickly. Sep 19 17:42
schestowitz OpenGL is Free software now: http://www.linux.com/feature/148339 Sep 19 17:46
benJIman schestowitz: Can’t you credit the author of things you claim not to have written? Sep 19 17:47
schestowitz http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/sh… Sep 19 17:47
schestowitz He wants to be anonymous, benJIman. I asked him for an attribution permission but he declined. Are you here just to troll, benJIman? Sep 19 17:49
twitter This is nice but I’m not sure I like Byfield’s slobbering over it.  Mesa and X.org seemed to work without OpenGL. Sep 19 17:50
benJIman schestowitz: You didn’t ask me whether you could credit me in your story. I didn’t particularly want to be associated with boycottnovell either. Sep 19 17:50
_Doug back in ten .. Sep 19 17:50
twitter People don’t need permission to quote each other, Benjie. Sep 19 17:52
twitter If you don’t want to contribute to Boycott Novell, why are you here? Sep 19 17:53
benJIman twitter: The /topic says “Exploring the reality” not “Ignoring the reality” Sep 19 17:53
schestowitz twitter: they usually do  (at that scale) and I was approached to publish this. Sep 19 17:53
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: test Sep 19 17:54
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: “Exploring the problems of the Novell/Microsoft patent deal” Sep 19 17:55
schestowitz benJIman: you’re off topic. Please be cautious. Sep 19 17:55
schestowitz ;-) Sep 19 17:55
twitter Reality is welcome, Benjie. Sep 19 17:55
twitter Here’s the FSF news release about OpenGL http://www.fsf.org/news/thank-you-… Sep 19 17:56
schestowitz Reality, not spin. Sep 19 17:56
schestowitz We already have Ian Bruce and Ilk for the latter. Sep 19 17:56
twitter Bruce was exaggerating 3d acceleration problems, licensing issues and commercial contributions.  FSF is more to the point. Sep 19 17:58
schestowitz All the pieces fall into place as FS: Java, OpenGL, OOo… Sep 19 18:00
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schestowitz No Mono patches in KDE this week: http://commit-digest.org/i… Sep 19 18:03
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twitter http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/212249 Sep 19 18:13
schestowitz Cool. I’ll link to it. Sep 19 18:15
_Doug any news on what caused the LSE meltdown last mon ? Sep 19 18:36
_Doug “London Stock Exchange Chooses Windows over Linux for Reliability” Sep 19 18:37
_Doug http://windowsitpro.com/Common/adforceim… Sep 19 18:37
schestowitz *LOL* Well, the latest says it’s definitely a software issue. Sep 19 18:38
schestowitz Those responsible refused to name the culprit. IOW, no-one is being blamed. Sep 19 18:38
_Doug http://www.microsoft.com/uk/… Sep 19 18:39
schestowitz Refs here also: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.a… Sep 19 18:39
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_Doug agility ‘cost of ownership’ availability and performance .. Sep 19 18:41
GraveDigger hi folks! Sep 19 18:41
schestowitz Prosthetics are a wonderful thing and I’m all for sharing knowledge about it, but why do they abuse the “open source” term?  http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/techno… Sep 19 18:41
schestowitz Hi, GraveDigger. What’s up? Sep 19 18:41
GraveDigger nothing special, just wanted to read a bit in here Sep 19 18:42
pombat42 wrt to the London SE outage it’s obvious that they are very careful with the words they use. Developed with Microsoft technology for instance Sep 19 18:44
_Doug “20% savings .. cost millions of euros nine months .. going forward with with the new system .. hundreds of thousands .. double the capacity we can do it literally over a weekend” Sep 19 18:44
_Doug “A modern feat of computer software engineering” Sep 19 18:44
schestowitz It turns out that I was wrong. Sep 19 18:44
schestowitz I thought it was the SECOND downtime in less than a year, but I was wrong. I remembered wrong or missed one. Sep 19 18:45
schestowitz It was down THREE days in less than a year. That’s like, what…? Running a /stock market/ properly just 99% of the days? Sep 19 18:45
schestowitz Our  desktop uptime puts that to shame and here you talk about an LSE framework with huge and expensive /redundancies/ that handle the load poorly (Rex Ballard concurs) Sep 19 18:46
pombat42 The redundancy is only effective if the software controlling it does the switching properly. Sep 19 18:47
_Doug “is is true that .. puts Microsoft in the unenviable position of having two bad options to consider: accept that a high-profile IT system failure occured that either relied on Microsoft products or.. let the blame fall on the LSE staff managing the platform” Sep 19 18:47
_Doug What was someone just saying about not pissing off your own customers ? Sep 19 18:48
pombat42 Money will change hands and you know that the LSE staff will take the hit. Sep 19 18:50
_Doug “Avanade .. A joint venture with Accenture and Microsoft “ Sep 19 18:53
_Doug http://www.avanade.com/ Sep 19 18:53
_Doug train crashes, blane the conductors … Sep 19 18:54
_Doug : train crashes, blame the conductors … Sep 19 18:54
_Doug “Founded in 2000 as a joint venture between Accenture and Microsoft” Sep 19 18:55
schestowitz Why don’t they state the cause of the crash? Sep 19 18:55
_Doug Is anyone going to be held accountable ? Sep 19 18:55
schestowitz Didn’t Furse get fired/quit? Sep 19 18:55
_Doug Not some scapegoat .. some agile innovator .. !!! Sep 19 18:56
schestowitz Maybe after 4 or 5 major downtimes they’ll realise it’s not working, but either way, won’t someone complain to the ASA about Microsoft’s false advertising? The uptime is a lie and the choice /over/ GNU/Linux is a lie also. Sep 19 18:56
schestowitz “I have been amused by recent coverage of what is called “open source spying.” It turns out to be nothing more than trying to glean hints of what’s real using unclassified stuff on the Internet. Spooks act all excited about using the Google, but this has absolutely nothing to do with open source.” Sep 19 18:58
_Doug technically speaking, why would moving to dot.Net reduce latency Sep 19 18:58
schestowitz Not the first time he complains about the noise that I too am seeing in the “open source” feeds: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2906 Sep 19 18:58
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_Doug in the same video .. the camera panns over a screen that says “Novell Migration” .. :) Sep 19 19:01
_Doug mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsserversyst em/facts/videos/LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv Sep 19 19:01
schestowitz Is there a HTTP link? Sep 19 19:01
_Doug http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/lse.mspx Sep 19 19:02
_Doug The video link .. get it while you can … Sep 19 19:02
_Doug at 2:45 Sep 19 19:02
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schestowitz I can’t view it. Sep 19 19:04
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_Doug why not ? you are licensed to ? Sep 19 19:04
schestowitz You see, I could do alright with the format because I have kaffeine, but Microsoft can’t even make the bloody thing downloadable. Everything to make the user “uncomfortable” (as they said about DR-DOS) Sep 19 19:05
schestowitz Can you make an ogg out of it and send me? Sep 19 19:05
_Doug I’ll try .. Sep 19 19:06
_Doug download could not complete .. :( Sep 19 19:06
schestowitz It drove my browser insane. I had to shut it down. Sep 19 19:06
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trmanco schestowitz, what did you mean with this? Sep 19 19:10
schestowitz After one browser mess (had to restart it), I gave up. Sep 19 19:10
trmanco “<schestowitz> I don’t remember the figure for sure, trmanco. Maybe you can help me out here: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/0… Sep 19 19:10
schestowitz Microsoft: 1; me: 0. They screw Internet users with those codecs and f* up URLs. Sep 19 19:10
schestowitz They mix up some thing there, I think. Sep 19 19:11
trmanco the kernel thing? Sep 19 19:11
schestowitz Yes. They treat Linux like its one unit. Sep 19 19:12
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schestowitz is someone here using Windows? Sep 19 19:16
trmanco no way Sep 19 19:16
trmanco I’m not going back to that thing Sep 19 19:16
schestowitz last thing Doug said was: “<_Doug> iexp1ore.exe is trying to hack this crapware .. :) <_Doug> grab it while you can view the source and see if you can wget it .. :) <_Doug> http://www.microsoft.com/uk/getthefacts/lse.mspx” Well, I can’t get it to work even with wget. It’s a stream service. Sep 19 19:17
schestowitz They force people to use spyware just to gain access to this advert. Sep 19 19:17
trmanco :| Sep 19 19:18
schestowitz I wouldn’t mind it if it didn’t mention Novell. Doug probably was at work using some Win32 box he’s forced to use. Sep 19 19:19
schestowitz benJIman uses Microsoft Linux. Maybe he can access that file. :-) Sep 19 19:20
benJIman What file? Sep 19 19:20
trmanco Microsoft Linux? Sep 19 19:20
benJIman schestowitz: The video linked on the lse page|? Sep 19 19:20
schestowitz Yes, please. Sep 19 19:20
benJIman Slow server is slow. Sep 19 19:21
trmanco totem says that I don’t have permission to view the file :| Sep 19 19:22
benJIman Grabbing it now. Sep 19 19:22
schestowitz Of course. chmod windows-user ~file Sep 19 19:22
benJIman schestowitz: You could do it yourself of course. Sep 19 19:23
schestowitz Novell at 2min 45sec Sep 19 19:23
trmanco I got Sep 19 19:23
schestowitz wget doesn’t do mms Sep 19 19:23
trmanco with wget Sep 19 19:23
trmanco put http in the protocol Sep 19 19:23
benJIman schestowitz: “mencoder mms://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsserversyst em/facts/videos/LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv -oac copy -ovc copy -o ./LSE_Casestudy.wmv” Sep 19 19:23
schestowitz http won’t do Sep 19 19:23
schestowitz Oh. Sep 19 19:23
schestowitz Thanks. Sep 19 19:23
trmanco it works :| Sep 19 19:23
trmanco I have the stream Sep 19 19:23
trmanco :D Sep 19 19:23
trmanco the server is slow Sep 19 19:24
benJIman It is. Sep 19 19:24
trmanco it won’t stop buffering :| Sep 19 19:24
schestowitz Maybe it’s served via the LSE. :-p Sep 19 19:24
trmanco lol Sep 19 19:24
twitter If you try to access that file by http, it returns a text file: Sep 19 19:26
trmanco http in wget Sep 19 19:26
trmanco it works here Sep 19 19:27
twitter [Reference] Sep 19 19:27
twitter Ref1=http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsserversystem/f… Sep 19 19:27
twitter Ref2=… Sep 19 19:27
twitter 2nd does nothing. Sep 19 19:27
twitter 1st returns text file. Sep 19 19:27
twitter asses. Sep 19 19:27
trmanco trmanco@trmanco-desktop:~/Desktop$ wget http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/windowsse… Sep 19 19:27
trmanco –20:25:42–  http://wm.microsoft.com/ms/wind… Sep 19 19:27
trmanco            => `LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv’ Sep 19 19:27
trmanco Resolving wm.microsoft.com… Sep 19 19:27
trmanco Connecting to wm.microsoft.com||:80… connected. Sep 19 19:27
trmanco HTTP request sent, awaiting response… 200 OK Sep 19 19:27
*kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection) Sep 19 19:27
trmanco Length: 226 Sep 19 19:27
trmanco 100%[====================================>] 226           –.–K/s Sep 19 19:27
trmanco 20:25:42 (20.72 MB/s) – `LSE_CaseStudy_Rev_750k.wmv’ saved [226/226] Sep 19 19:27
twitter try ls -lrth Sep 19 19:28
twitter 226 bytes is text file Sep 19 19:28
twitter asses Sep 19 19:28
trmanco I some how got it to stream Sep 19 19:28
trmanco it has the wmv extension Sep 19 19:28
twitter did you actually see a video? Sep 19 19:29
trmanco yes Sep 19 19:29
trmanco i’m seeing it right now Sep 19 19:29
twitter was it worth seeing? Sep 19 19:29
trmanco well Sep 19 19:29
trmanco I’m not really sure Sep 19 19:29
trmanco its always buffering Sep 19 19:29
trmanco you can’t see the hole video at once :| Sep 19 19:30
trmanco It’s nice to watch Sep 19 19:30
trmanco a lot of lies go on the video Sep 19 19:30
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twitter of course it’s full of lies, the LSE flunked out. Sep 19 19:31
trmanco If you wan’t to see I’ll host the file somewhere for you to download Sep 19 19:31
schestowitz I want to see the Novell bit Sep 19 19:31
twitter Here’s a fun one, midsized business skips Vista, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/212173 Sep 19 19:32
schestowitz I’m at 40% Sep 19 19:32
twitter Midsized represents most business. Sep 19 19:32
twitter ha ha Sep 19 19:32
twitter M$ had better hurry up with it’s patent revenue. Sep 19 19:32
schestowitz Wha!? They don’t supersize with Ultimate at these times of prosperity? Sep 19 19:32
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schestowitz That can’t be good, can it? http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif Sep 19 19:33
twitter Bad for M$, good for everyone else. Sep 19 19:33
schestowitz Well, if the above is true, they can collapse their system along with everyone else. Sep 19 19:34
schestowitz I read yesterday (after inquiry) that California’s debt is $3 trillion, IIRC. Sep 19 19:34
schestowitz Bill Gates is small peanuts compared to some of these people in UAE. Sep 19 19:34
twitter Yes, but Bill reads their email. Sep 19 19:35
schestowitz WTF? Sep 19 19:36
schestowitz It finished at 2:11 Sep 19 19:36
schestowitz (the video .. LSE_Casestudy.wmv ) Sep 19 19:36
twitter I wonder if Uncle Sam will bail out M$ when it finally craters. Sep 19 19:36
trmanco lol Sep 19 19:37
schestowitz Maybe Exxon will borrow them some. Sep 19 19:37
twitter Their crashing stock price is going to sink a lot of Widows and orphans. Sep 19 19:37
schestowitz Seriously now, we don’t know any of this for sure, but with all the scandals around, we might find out soon (months/years) Sep 19 19:37
twitter Exxon/Mobile/Soft? Sep 19 19:37
schestowitz Novell is already pretty much bust. Sep 19 19:37
schestowitz It’s dangling by Microsoft’s strings for survival for all I can gather. Corel is close to its EOL as well, I think. Sep 19 19:38
twitter People with M$ stock have to be sore.  It has yet to get back to it’s pre bubble price from 10 years ago. Sep 19 19:39
twitter That means it’s worth half of what people bought it for. Sep 19 19:39
schestowitz zoobab: are you there? Can I use the EPO photos? Sep 19 19:39
schestowitz twitter: Microsoft buys its own stock now. So “people”=Microsoft Sep 19 19:40
schestowitz Before Bishop quit he posted about it. Let me find it. Sep 19 19:40
twitter It used to be widely held. Sep 19 19:40
schestowitz Watrch the chart: http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif Sep 19 19:40
schestowitz Holy moly. I found it quickly, so I suppose it’s already a popular page Sep 19 19:40
schestowitz http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.co… http://www.billparish.com/msbargraph699.gif Sep 19 19:41
twitter chart ends in 1999 is it supposed to be an animated gif? Sep 19 19:41
schestowitz A month goes by and Todd quits his job after so many years of watching Microsoft. Sep 19 19:41
schestowitz twitter: no, it has not been update since, no animation. That said, remember it’s pre-bubble, so things can’t have improved. Sep 19 19:42
schestowitz http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/1y/m/msft http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mi… Sep 19 19:43
schestowitz Novell is on buyback mode as well. The stock performs poorly. Sep 19 19:43
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schestowitz _Doug: I got the video, but it’s only 2:11-’long’ Sep 19 19:55
_Doug ? Sep 19 19:55
schestowitz Unless the download got cut Sep 19 19:55
_Doug meybe .. I just popped in .. will try again tomorrow .. Sep 19 19:56
schestowitz What did did it say about Novell migration anywya? Sep 19 19:56
schestowitz Never mind, it’s unimportant. Sep 19 19:57
_Doug It was panning across screens while the voice talked about tyhe benefits of the LSE moving to dotnet frame work .. and the screen listed options to migrate from Novell, ungrade from UNIX etc .. Sep 19 19:58
_Doug It’s funny considering their partnership with Novell .. Sep 19 19:58
_Doug gtg Sep 19 19:58
*_Doug has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Sep 19 19:58
MinceR ooh, apple is “innovating” again: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?… Sep 19 20:29
schestowitz This reduces confidence in their patents. It might do more harm than good to Apple. Sep 19 20:31
MinceR they deserve all the harm they can get Sep 19 20:34
schestowitz Apple and Microsoft fight each other too, which can’t be too bad. Sep 19 20:35
MinceR they should fight each other in hell Sep 19 20:37
schestowitz They do in the US. Sep 19 20:38
MinceR well, that’s pretty close, i guess. Sep 19 20:42
MinceR unfortunately hungary is pretty close too. Sep 19 20:42
schestowitz To the vampires maybe. http://www.youtube.com/my_favorites# Sep 19 20:44
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vywTMyQZ7oc Sep 19 20:44
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pombat42 The video doesn’t work in Ubuntu with Totem and all the codecs either. Who the heck does Microsoft expect to win over if not people running other platforms? Sep 19 21:52
pombat42 IOW doesn’t it make sense to allow Linux, Unix or OsX users to easily see what they (Microsoft) have to offer? Sep 19 21:53
schestowitz People running other platform are already in greener pastures perhaps. They can only win over people who assume that computers crash and fall ill (viruses). Sep 19 21:53
pombat42 Sadly people believe computers are supposed to crash. Sep 19 21:54
pombat42 They all do but some are much better than others and Windows desktop systems are by far the worst. Sep 19 21:54
schestowitz Well, they can… if you don’t buy a UPS. Sep 19 21:55
pombat42 Software isn’t perfect and neither is hardware. It’s getting closer to perfection. Rebooting a desktop system several times a day is insane though yet many Windows users think this is normal Sep 19 22:05
schestowitz Well, without virtual desktops and heavy workloads, maybe it’s no big deal. Anyway, KDE also restored sessions entirely. Sep 19 22:06
neighborlee not that it really matters perse but..I think from his style of writing..that ‘alternatealias’ is jeffrey stedfast  ..it all adds up now..maybe im wrong but it seems to make sense why he would be so vehemently oppose removoing  mono etc. ;)..I bring up as that username on ubuntu forums was doing his best to make case for Mono. Sep 19 22:09
benJIman neighborlee: Are you in favour of removing mono? Sep 19 22:10
schestowitz It seems possible. Sep 19 22:11
neighborlee absolutely Sep 19 22:11
neighborlee its not necesssary Sep 19 22:11
schestowitz Jeffrey has defended Mono more than anyone. Sep 19 22:11
schestowitz He also published an item against me, something along the lines of “debunking the schestowitz” in one post title Sep 19 22:11
neighborlee linux means choice,,,let uubntu give me the choice at install, not force it on me. Sep 19 22:11
benJIman neighborlee: It is if you want to allow .net developers to write software for a Free platform. Sep 19 22:11
neighborlee huh ? Sep 19 22:11
schestowitz But it’s interesting what proof can be shown to prove that “Alternatie-ALIAS” is an alias of his. Sep 19 22:12
neighborlee :) Sep 19 22:12
schestowitz Judging by the description of the forum, there’s a match, Sep 19 22:12
neighborlee I caught it based on writing style..’looky here’ , as I found that style here as well: http://jeffreystedfast.blogspot.com/2… Sep 19 22:12
schestowitz neighborlee: you woke up SUSEJiman, so you must have hit a sensitive point. Sep 19 22:12
neighborlee rofl Sep 19 22:13
benJIman neighborlee: Some polls indicate that c# is used by even more developers than java now. I’m skeptical of that, but certainly a lot of people do use it. Sep 19 22:13
schestowitz benJIman: so what? Sep 19 22:13
neighborlee benJIman, oh ok ic your point Sep 19 22:13
schestowitz A lot of people east at McDonalds. Sep 19 22:13
schestowitz Does it make the food there healthy? Sep 19 22:13
benJIman schestowitz: Actually someone in another channel mentioned boycottnovell and I popped over to look at what you were discussing. Sep 19 22:13
neighborlee benJIman, well,,,id love to rally behind oss but with M$’s track record and the pact with novel , and the actual ecma license ( err the promise ;)..) I see no reason to trust mono on any level Sep 19 22:14
benJIman schestowitz: regardless of whether it’s superior (I don’t think it is), that’s a massive developerbase who could contribute to free software. Sep 19 22:14
schestowitz benJIman: got proof? Sep 19 22:14
schestowitz All I see is a slog. Sep 19 22:14
benJIman 23:09:10 < zx64> Does Boycott Novell have the slogan “No Way, No How, Novell”? Sep 19 22:14
neighborlee since when did size matter ? <grins> Sep 19 22:15
schestowitz As pointed out earlier, a corruption-riddled CA might be rubbing Microsoft’s back. Sep 19 22:15
benJIman schestowitz: Proof of what now? Sep 19 22:15
schestowitz .NETification. Sep 19 22:15
schestowitz Not that it’s relevant Sep 19 22:15
neighborlee no shame in supporting good change ;) Sep 19 22:16
schestowitz Even if it ever become ubiquitous, that would be even /MORE/ of a reason to avoid it. Sep 19 22:16
schestowitz Don’t play as a follower or you’ll always be a second-class citizen. Sep 19 22:16
schestowitz As Dana Blankenhorn puts it, “Lead pony”. Sep 19 22:17
benJIman schestowitz: .netification of what? I’ve seen statistics varying from 10% to about 60% of businesses using .net for business software development. A lot of people using .net whichever end of that the figure actually lies. Sep 19 22:17
schestowitz Get them off it. Sep 19 22:18
schestowitz Not with Wine… and cigarettes. Sep 19 22:18
benJIman lol Sep 19 22:19
schestowitz You can’t substitute something with second best. Sep 19 22:19
schestowitz If you take them down the route of cheap imitations (Mono), they’ll be disappointed. Sep 19 22:19
schestowitz IE on Linux… Chrome on CrossOver… Sep 19 22:19
neighborlee we’re all on the same team here, or we’re supposed to be…oss willl someday be the beacon we all hang our hearts on…if only M$ had a track record of supporting it with no strings attached ( OOXML, adnosium<) I’d be fine with mono..but we’re not there are we ;) Sep 19 22:20
benJIman No-one’s forcing you to use it. Sep 19 22:20
schestowitz Not to mention that running thing on Mono for them could be a legal time bomb. Sep 19 22:20
benJIman I think it’s a great thing that .net developers can write software for linux. Sep 19 22:20
neighborlee benJIman, actuallly, ubuntu is Sep 19 22:20
neighborlee which is wrong. Sep 19 22:21
benJIman No they’re not. Sep 19 22:21
schestowitz benJIman: they shove this Novell excertment in distros. Sep 19 22:21
benJIman You can easily remove it. Sep 19 22:21
neighborlee its insalled out of the box Sep 19 22:21
benJIman excertment? Sep 19 22:21
neighborlee so I  have to remove it..why cant it be a option at ‘install time’ ?? Sep 19 22:21
benJIman neighborlee: Oh no :o Sep 19 22:21
neighborlee linux=choice ;) Sep 19 22:21
benJIman neighborlee: Because asking about every package at install time is a great idea. Sep 19 22:21
schestowitz benJIman: this is no ‘package’ Sep 19 22:22
schestowitz It’s no ordinary package. Sep 19 22:22
benJIman You can remove mono-core and everything goes. Sep 19 22:22
schestowitz In fact, Novell and Microsoft pollute not just with Mono. Sep 19 22:22
neighborlee benJIman, the same arguement can be made, to give users a ‘choice’ at install time whether o r not to have it Sep 19 22:22
benJIman There’s this handy system of package management with automatic dependency management. Sep 19 22:22
neighborlee and that option is more democratic :)) Sep 19 22:22
benJIman neighborlee: And means nothing to most users. Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee then leave mono out ;) Sep 19 22:23
benJIman You will just put people off. Sep 19 22:23
benJIman Why? Sep 19 22:23
benJIman It’s free software. Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee not Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee ecma is not Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee its a ‘promose’ Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee promise Sep 19 22:23
benJIman Most of the world does not live in the US so there is not even a threat. Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee the movel pact, made that worthless Sep 19 22:23
neighborlee ..novel Sep 19 22:24
benJIman If you think that Mono is the only thing infringing patents in Ubuntu I think you are deluding yourself. Sep 19 22:24
neighborlee name one Sep 19 22:24
benJIman One what? Sep 19 22:24
neighborlee infringement Sep 19 22:24
benJIman It’s pretty much impossible to write any nontrivial software without infringing software patents, IBM have some on trivial programming concepts for example. Sep 19 22:25
schestowitz Novell is selfish. It sells IP peace of mind, remember? Sep 19 22:25
benJIman Microsoft even have one on pageup/pagedown granted recently. Sep 19 22:25
schestowitz In other words, it tells you to be scared and buy protection from it. Sep 19 22:25
schestowitz Microsoft also adds that Mono is just for Novell. Sep 19 22:25
schestowitz Put 2 and 2 together. Sep 19 22:25
benJIman Not to mention one on software doing a different thing when a hardware device is double clicked vs single clicked. Sep 19 22:25
neighborlee benJIman, and ibm isn’t a convicted monopolist Sep 19 22:25
schestowitz benJIman: itrrelevent. Some patents stand no chance in court. Sep 19 22:25
benJIman neighborlee: What has that got to do with whether or not their patents are infringed? Sep 19 22:25
*moparx has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) Sep 19 22:26
schestowitz Mono is a CLONE, not a patent infringement. Sep 19 22:26
schestowitz Watch the agreement with Novell. See under “clone products” Sep 19 22:26
neighborlee well im just reiterating  seth@gnome.org’s claims and it makes sense..the  mono ecma standardization is just a promise, which novel pact with M$ broke. Sep 19 22:27
benJIman And? Sep 19 22:27
benJIman ECMA standardisation is fairly irrelevant anyway, many parts of mono are not covered. Sep 19 22:27
benJIman A lot of free software is clones of proprietary software, I’m not going to boycott it. Sep 19 22:28
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neighborlee It is nothing more than a farce, and coming from liars like those at Microsoft (“Red Hat customers owe us money”), isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Sep 19 22:29
schestowitz I am working on a post at the moment. Sep 19 22:33
schestowitz It shall explain to benJIman and other OpenSUSErs that are in denial that Microsoft intends to sue and to troll by proxy. Sep 19 22:33
benJIman lol Sep 19 22:34
schestowitz It’s funny that they have that deal with Novell because it doesn’t pretend Microsoft from suing Novell and customer via their procies. Sep 19 22:34
schestowitz Which they may have done already (Oct. 2007) Sep 19 22:34
benJIman The deal doesn’t prevent them from suing Novell anyway. Sep 19 22:34
schestowitz True. In other words, it’s useless. Sep 19 22:34
schestowitz As the FSD called it, “worse than useless” Sep 19 22:34
schestowitz *FSF Sep 19 22:34
schestowitz …Just an excuse to kick off a little collusion and screw Ubuntu, Red hat, Mandriva… Sep 19 22:35
benJIman schestowitz: The patent covenant is useless yes. Sep 19 22:41
benJIman I might even go as far as worse than useless. Sep 19 22:41
*MinceR waits for the point where logic will break. Sep 19 22:46
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Sep 19 23:04
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  1. Dan O'Brian said,

    September 20, 2008 at 11:33 am


    We’re actually trying to hire Mr. Steadfast as a senior software engineer. He’s gotten a lot of recommendations from our engineers.

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 20, 2008 at 11:36 am



    Who is “we”?

  3. Dan O'Brian said,

    September 20, 2008 at 11:48 am


    The team I manage at the company I work for.

    You need not know more than that.

  4. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 20, 2008 at 12:16 pm


    Actually, I do. Why don’t you disclosure your biases. Does your company rely on Mono? It’s almost rhetorical, isn’t it? You’re here for your wallet if that it the case.

    AlexH, by the way, is forking Novell software (Hula).

  5. Dan O'Brian said,

    September 20, 2008 at 12:56 pm


    We don’t rely on Mono, no. So no, I’m not here for my wallet. My wallet in no way depends on the success of Mono nor Novell.

    Nor does AlexH’s, as near as I can tell. If memory serves, he works on the Bongo project which is a Free Software fork of Hula (which used to be a Novell product before they dropped it) and I’m unaware of any ties to Mono.

    The success of the Bongo project is in no way tied to the success or failure of Novell nor Mono afaict.

    What is his “vested interest”?

  6. Dan O'Brian said,

    September 20, 2008 at 1:10 pm


    As usual, you are grasping at straws.

  7. Roy Schestowitz said,

    September 20, 2008 at 1:18 pm


    Do you want to hire Jeff for something related to Mono? What s the company anyway? You seem to be escaping the question.

    Who is Defending Mono Anyway?

    To understand that you don’t defend Mono for personal gain, I will need something more concrete. You spend a lot of time in sites you don’t like.

  8. Dan O'Brian said,

    September 20, 2008 at 1:30 pm


    The company I work for is none of your business as I have already stated.

    The position we’d like to hire Mr. Steadfast for is unrelated to Mono.

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