IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 24th, 2009

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2009-01-25 11:01:40 UTC
Modified: 2009-01-25 11:01:40 UTC

PetoKraus	schestowitz: it's not a bad idea though	Jan 24 00:07
PetoKraus	it's just complete dream	Jan 24 00:07
PetoKraus	"dream"	Jan 24 00:07
PetoKraus	I hope you like orange: http://pk.gjhak.sk/	Jan 24 00:08
schestowitz	"	Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz	Wrong! Hackers in the '70s were the good guys. They modified and improved code as they saw fit for their use or their organization's use. The emergence of proprietary licenses has disabled this practice. Imagine someone who enjoys to work on cars in his/her garage being told they cannot paint their car or add any horsepower to their engine. GPL does for the software what recipe books do for cooks."	Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz	From http://news.cnet.com/8301-1...	Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz	This might make Digg's front page as well.. and BN is cited	Jan 24 00:09
schestowitz	PetoKraus: Organce sucks. Are you a (concerned) client?	Jan 24 00:09
PetoKraus	:D	Jan 24 00:10
schestowitz	http://royal.pingdom.com/2009/01/22/...	Jan 24 00:13
schestowitz	Blogs: 133 million – The number of blogs on the Internet (as tracked by Technorati).	Jan 24 00:13
PetoKraus	:) i wonder whether it counts mine in	Jan 24 00:15
PetoKraus	anyway	Jan 24 00:15
PetoKraus	good night	Jan 24 00:15
schestowitz	There are probably hundreds of millions, many are spam (fake blogs or splogs run by bots)	Jan 24 00:16
schestowitz	Anti=FOSS article in embedded.com: "However, with all of the promise, the emerging open mobile ecosystem faces a number of challenges, including security, interoperability and diverging next-generation technologies." http://www.embedded.com/design/212901998	Jan 24 00:43
schestowitz	Whoa! Likewise is from "BELLEVUE"? No wonder it flirts with Microsoft and Novelll.. maybe former Softies.. http://news.prnewswire.com/ViewContent.aspx?ACCT=10...	Jan 24 00:46
schestowitz	WOT???? 'Research Consortium and the Open Source Building Alliance (OSBA) at MIT." http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/dual-perspe... open source buildings?????	Jan 24 01:12
schestowitz	Great photo of the National Mall: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/01/20/200...	Jan 24 01:15
schestowitz	Another example of Apple-only 'open-source' apps (provided you use proprietary platforms): http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2009/...	Jan 24 01:19
schestowitz	Windows-only... http://lifehacker.com/5135118/the-guide-...	Jan 24 01:21
schestowitz	Microsoft Office-only so-called 'open source'.. http://uk.sys-con.com/node/813757	Jan 24 01:23
MinceR	gn	Jan 24 02:32
twitter	hi, I'm back	Jan 24 02:54
twitter	seen the botstorm? http://blog.networksolutions.com/2009/pote...	Jan 24 02:54
*schestowitz looks		Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz	Ha!	Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz	That's what happened yesterday!	Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz	I checked this to see and there was a DNS resolve laterncy	Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz	I was going to point this out in IRC	Jan 24 02:55
schestowitz	They tossed out some rogue nodes, which resolved the issue.	Jan 24 02:56
schestowitz	Got to love Windows zombie ruining your whole day, having you change the schedule, not being able to work and so on.	Jan 24 02:56
schestowitz	*zombies	Jan 24 02:56
twitter	I like the fool, "if the world switches to linux, it will switch to OpenOffice too." unintentionally prophetic.	Jan 24 02:56
schestowitz	Microsoft dumps Windows because it needs to peddle Office	Jan 24 02:59
schestowitz	Office is far more profitable than Wndows... it's one of the few products from Microsoft that actually makes money (other than servers).	Jan 24 02:59
twitter	I imagine they strategically "dump" office on large companies, government and education too, with site licensing. This forces everyone else to buy it at retail.	Jan 24 03:06
twitter	Don't like this. http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009...	Jan 24 03:06
schestowitz	They grow up and buy it later	Jan 24 03:07
schestowitz	They target kids	Jan 24 03:07
schestowitz	Early experiences count.	Jan 24 03:07
schestowitz	twitter: let YouTube advertise... it's only fair gives how much RAM, CPU and b/w they gave us all over the years	Jan 24 03:08
schestowitz	*given	Jan 24 03:08
twitter	The question is, who decides what's "illegal"	Jan 24 03:09
twitter	right now, it's the big publishers. they get to decide what to pull at will.	Jan 24 03:09
twitter	now they get to spam as well as pull.	Jan 24 03:09
schestowitz	Oh wait	Jan 24 03:12
schestowitz	I thought it was about ads	Jan 24 03:12
twitter	it is.	Jan 24 03:12
twitter	it let's CBS put CBS ads on top of YouTube videos they think they own.	Jan 24 03:13
twitter	A YouTube identifier is mentioned but big publishers have DMCA pull rights as it is. I'm sure they will be happy for YouTube to tell on themselves and make the list longer themselves.	Jan 24 03:14
schestowitz	Yes, true that	Jan 24 03:14
schestowitz	I'll read it later	Jan 24 03:15
schestowitz	There's tons of great new for Linux this week	Jan 24 03:15
twitter	cool	Jan 24 03:16
twitter	California has 9% unemployment http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/23/news/econ...	Jan 24 03:23
schestowitz	What was it last year?	Jan 24 03:27
twitter	5, 6. 1 in 10 is bad news.	Jan 24 03:29
twitter	I don't even like it at 5.	Jan 24 03:29
twitter	one in 20 people looking for work is a lot.	Jan 24 03:30
schestowitz	CA has tent cities	Jan 24 03:32
twitter	yeah, you showed me the videos.	Jan 24 03:32
twitter	I wonder if 9% is a lie.	Jan 24 03:32
schestowitz	Too low?	Jan 24 03:33
schestowitz	Likely.	Jan 24 03:33
schestowitz	Pres. George Walker said all was OK... spending over $1000 billion in Iraq was affordable	Jan 24 03:33
schestowitz	[like the lives of hundreds o thousands of kids]	Jan 24 03:33
twitter	more than 1 million Iraqi dead, 4 thousand US and 4 trillion dollars.	Jan 24 03:34
schestowitz	4??	Jan 24 03:35
schestowitz	How time flied	Jan 24 03:35
schestowitz	*lies	Jan 24 03:35
twitter	I've read 3.7 trillion.	Jan 24 03:36
twitter	need to check to be sure.	Jan 24 03:37
twitter	http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jan-apr.html#27 February 2008 (Joseph Stiglitz estimates attempt to conquer Iraq has cost at least 3 trillion dollars)	Jan 24 03:40
twitter	"http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-jan-apr.html#27 February 2008 (Joseph Stiglitz estimates attempt to conquer Iraq has cost at least 3 trillion dollars)"	Jan 24 03:40
twitter	sorry for the naming scheme	Jan 24 03:40
twitter	it does not make clean link pastes, but the point is easy to see.	Jan 24 03:41
twitter	http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comme...	Jan 24 03:41
twitter	this estimate is a year old and does not take into account health care for veterans.	Jan 24 03:43
twitter	gotta go. see you later.	Jan 24 03:43
schestowitz	Ta	Jan 24 03:43
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schestowitz	A reader says that "I'm noticing that the MS/Novell shills are increasing in both activity and intensity on all the forums I read. I gather that they are really planning to undermine FOSDEM."	Jan 24 11:01
schestowitz	They are everywhere... talking about "mixed source" and stuff...	Jan 24 11:01
schestowitz	Intel's #2 man is quitting: http://www.pcworld.com/article/158230/crai...	Jan 24 11:40
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schestowitz	Another Noveller? "Quoting BoycottNovell.com as a factual site makes this article suspect and useless. They are a fringe conspiracy group that even FOSS supporters shun." http://news.cnet.com/8301-135...	Jan 24 11:56
schestowitz	There's a whole bunch of them attacking whoever cites us	Jan 24 11:57
*oiaohm2 (n=oiaohm@122.159.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell		Jan 24 12:22
oiaohm2	Its going to be interesting with MS hate of standards to see what they try to do about QT lib being LGPL and cross platform.	Jan 24 12:24
schestowitz	Hey	Jan 24 12:29
schestowitz	How can they affect Qt?	Jan 24 12:29
schestowitz	Their relationship with Nokia revolves around DRM.	Jan 24 12:29
oiaohm2	That is the point. Are they going to do another java and release like window only extentions for Qt.	Jan 24 12:31
schestowitz	DRM?	Jan 24 12:33
oiaohm2	Nokia really does not have that much to deal with Microsoft.	Jan 24 12:33
schestowitz	How close are Nokia and MS based on your knowledge? I have my information about it, but maybe you know more.	Jan 24 12:33
schestowitz	http://www.pcworld.com/article/15824... (Microsoft May Owe $8.5B for 'Vista Capable' Debacle)	Jan 24 12:34
oiaohm2	Basically nothing. Nokia has completed for years with symbian (Ok the most common mobile phone os) against MS. Basically they are only barely friendly with Microsoft.	Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz	I think you are wrong	Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz	Search BN	Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz	Hold on.	Jan 24 12:34
schestowitz	Places to start: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=...	Jan 24 12:35
schestowitz	The word is spreading: Russia to Develop Linux-based Alternative to Windows? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158262/Russia_to_... >	Jan 24 12:36
oiaohm2	Nokia has been about compadiblity with MS products for the simple reason if they have it they can sell more devices. Now something you are missing here Nokia does not want to have to pay anyone for OS usage either it effects how well they can complete in the market.	Jan 24 12:38
oiaohm2	Nokia is no friend of Microsoft when it comes to having to pay Microsoft.	Jan 24 12:39
schestowitz	Microsoft Postpones Iowa Data Center..	Jan 24 12:39
schestowitz	They share some common goals. I don't trust the,/.	Jan 24 12:40
schestowitz	*them	Jan 24 12:40
oiaohm2	Nokia also shares some common goals with Open Source.	Jan 24 12:40
oiaohm2	Yes 100 percent trust in Nokia to do the right thing would be wrong. Trust that they will do what is good for there bottom line can be trusted.	Jan 24 12:41
oiaohm2	Nokia bottom line depends on selling phones.	Jan 24 12:41
schestowitz	Nokia is still a large private tyranny	Jan 24 12:42
schestowitz	Its goal was expressed by Ari -- a thing I'll never forget	Jan 24 12:42
schestowitz	They are willing to play ball with the MAFIAA using the work of volunteers	Jan 24 12:43
oiaohm2	Nokia could have kept the most common mobile phone OS closed source. They could have kept QT GPL. Logic of open source wins out for there bottom line.	Jan 24 12:45
oiaohm2	By allowing others to build applications they improve the OS running on there product making the product more usable and more likely to sell at lower cost to them.	Jan 24 12:46
oiaohm2	Nokia actions follow what they think will bring them sales.	Jan 24 12:46
oiaohm2	Supporting MS DRM ideas at the time they though it would increase sales.	Jan 24 12:46
oiaohm2	Its the one thing about Nokia you can trust. Profit is there goal from there actions.	Jan 24 12:47
oiaohm2	Nokia will not obey MS instruction blindly. So sometimes they are MS friend sometimes they are Open Source friend sometimes they are netrual all depending on where they can see profit.	Jan 24 12:50
schestowitz	Nokia is miserable	Jan 24 12:50
schestowitz	Symbian is growing too slowly	Jan 24 12:51
schestowitz	iPhone, Blackberry and Pre will give them a hard time, so they just bought Trolltech on thew cheap	Jan 24 12:51
oiaohm2	Nokia has recently been submiting code into Linux kernel.	Jan 24 12:51
schestowitz	I wonder if they even knew at the time what to do with it.	Jan 24 12:51
schestowitz	With Maemo it gives them FOSS creds	Jan 24 12:51
oiaohm2	Something says they know that symbian is dieing.	Jan 24 12:52
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 24 12:52
schestowitz	Moving it open source is a PR thing	Jan 24 12:52
oiaohm2	No matter what Nokia does not want to have to pay for software.	Jan 24 12:52
oiaohm2	Not exactly PR	Jan 24 12:52
schestowitz	Keeping the thing selling for a while longer, maybe mixing some code later	Jan 24 12:52
oiaohm2	Its tail protection for Nokia.	Jan 24 12:53
schestowitz	THey already hint at using Linux (Maemo + Qt likely) in smartphones	Jan 24 12:53
oiaohm2	Nokia is not really a software company.	Jan 24 12:53
oiaohm2	Hardware companies have always been more friendly to open source in general.	Jan 24 12:54
oiaohm2	Hardware is heavy competion. If you have to pay for Like a OS that pushes you too expensive your devices will not sell.	Jan 24 12:55
oiaohm2	Nokia is more about selling hardware than charging for software.	Jan 24 12:55
oiaohm2	Good thing about selling hardware you don't have to worry about pirates. Its fairly hard to pirate hardware.	Jan 24 12:56
oiaohm2	What apple is doing with the iphone if Nokia copies then we do have a problem.	Jan 24 12:57
schestowitz	Fair point	Jan 24 13:00
schestowitz	It's manufactured in China, right?	Jan 24 13:00
oiaohm2	Some of there lines yes.	Jan 24 13:00
schestowitz	[use the word "pirate" only in reference to sea crime... otherwise "counterfeiting"]	Jan 24 13:00
schestowitz	China us killing Japan right now.	Jan 24 13:01
schestowitz	Price-fixing societies are in peril	Jan 24 13:01
oiaohm2	Still counterfeiting a phone is still simpler to trace than counteiting software that can be everywhere.	Jan 24 13:02
schestowitz	I think ushimitsudoki1 is in Japan.	Jan 24 13:02
oiaohm2	China is not the only thing killing japan.	Jan 24 13:03
schestowitz	I know	Jan 24 13:03
schestowitz	It's leveling	Jan 24 13:04
oiaohm2	Some japan compaines using cheeper labour in near by countries is also killing japan over time.	Jan 24 13:04
schestowitz	Trouble is, communism rises in Japan too now...	Jan 24 13:04
oiaohm2	Its the annoying things have a bad habit of going full circle if left enough time.	Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz	Sooner or later, China disengages from Japanese feudalism and does its own...	Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz	Intel is a good example	Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz	Intellectual monopoly (IP) is artificial barrier	Jan 24 13:05
schestowitz	Intel chairman Craig Barrett retires	Jan 24 13:06
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/23...	Jan 24 13:06
oiaohm2	History tells as that in time artifical barriers will break.	Jan 24 13:06
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 24 13:06
oiaohm2	We have just seen in 2008 MS actifical barrier getting cracks.	Jan 24 13:07
schestowitz	It already ruins hollywood	Jan 24 13:08
schestowitz	There are laws that are just designed to protect centers of power, laws that are bought by them.	Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz	I have some news coming in BN	Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz	The maximalists (IP advocates) are afraid of us protesters.	Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz	It was in the news.	Jan 24 13:09
schestowitz	We call the emperor "naked"	Jan 24 13:10
oiaohm2	Have you notices something else about 2009.	Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz	Many things.	Jan 24 13:10
oiaohm2	Reporters are starting to become reporters again.	Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz	WIndows is already free (gratis)	Jan 24 13:10
oiaohm2	Ratting each other out for taking bribes.	Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz	You can buy $300 'laptops' with Windows that costs just $5	Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz	Linux killed MS' margins. next stage is MS starvation.	Jan 24 13:10
schestowitz	This leads to economic pressures, layoffs, etc	Jan 24 13:11
oiaohm2	The idea that Linux had to get 100 percent market share to kill MS has always been wrong.	Jan 24 13:11
schestowitz	Then programmes like EDGI can't last for much longer and people won't select MS blindly based on omnipotence and long-term support perceptinos.	Jan 24 13:11
oiaohm2	All Linux has to do is force MS margins to the point that is not statainable.	Jan 24 13:11
schestowitz	That too, re:reporting	Jan 24 13:11
schestowitz	Sarko stands in the way	Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz	They try to sort of 'bail out' the old press	Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz	Restore propaganda systems	Jan 24 13:12
oiaohm2	That needs money.	Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz	In the UK, laws are passed to gag people and prevent spilling the beans on corruption	Jan 24 13:12
schestowitz	Well, they spend billions over half a centurty ago	Jan 24 13:13
schestowitz	Yes, it needs money,, but the business community will happily supply it...	Jan 24 13:13
oiaohm2	No propaganda system runs without money.	Jan 24 13:13
schestowitz	After the War (second), there was a period of years where social democracy prevailed	Jan 24 13:13
oiaohm2	Linux forcing MS proft lines down reduces the money they have for propaganda.	Jan 24 13:13
schestowitz	The business community said it needed "to capture the mind of man" and then they started a massive PR campaign for "capitalism" (wage slavery and such)	Jan 24 13:14
schestowitz	oiaohm2: yes, that too. They cut outside markeing	Jan 24 13:14
schestowitz	As trmanco attested yesterday, Microsoft trolling in USENET almost vanished last week	Jan 24 13:14
schestowitz	It's as though people were laid off or something.	Jan 24 13:14
oiaohm2	Trolling no long that effective.	Jan 24 13:15
oiaohm2	People have got wiser and stopping falling for it as often.	Jan 24 13:15
oiaohm2	MS got a rude shock from the study by game companies. That the 5 percent of the game market that is Linux could in effect double the windows sales of the game.	Jan 24 13:16
schestowitz	Seen "effective evangelism"?	Jan 24 13:16
schestowitz	It's all there... the Microsoft Crime Bible	Jan 24 13:16
oiaohm2	Its a simple factor of trust.	Jan 24 13:16
oiaohm2	Most Linux people were trusted to give people truthful answers were MS trolls were not.	Jan 24 13:17
oiaohm2	PR without trust is useless.	Jan 24 13:17
schestowitz	It's an oxymoron	Jan 24 13:18
schestowitz	PR and trust	Jan 24 13:18
oiaohm2	Not really. Cisco systems have been good at it.	Jan 24 13:18
schestowitz	PR is new-age term for propaganda or corporate deception.. the original term ceased to be used after Goebbels.	Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2	MS has trust before Vista.	Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2	has/had	Jan 24 13:19
schestowitz	Cisco and PR?	Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2	Ok miss placed trust.	Jan 24 13:19
schestowitz	That's sheltering	Jan 24 13:19
schestowitz	Very often there is the shadow that is government to be used as a scapegoat for people to shout at.	Jan 24 13:19
oiaohm2	Public releations. I am using the old term.	Jan 24 13:20
schestowitz	Underneath the system which degrades right and wages and suppresses organisation of laboour there is another problem altogether.	Jan 24 13:20
oiaohm2	Cisco PR has always been truthful. Just they might skip over some key facts.	Jan 24 13:20
schestowitz	Yes	Jan 24 13:20
schestowitz	But that's where people must fill in the gap	Jan 24 13:20
oiaohm2	So the PR is trusted.	Jan 24 13:20
oiaohm2	MS made the big bad mistake of doing untrustable PR ie not truthful.	Jan 24 13:21
schestowitz	IBM and Intel do the same and Intel blew it when it bribes against AMD, strongarmed China and attacked OLPC	Jan 24 13:21
schestowitz	I look most profoundly at Novell, but many other companies could be treated similarly. Novell's problem is that it antagonises FOSS principles now.	Jan 24 13:22
oiaohm2	Every company does some things wrong.	Jan 24 13:23
schestowitz	In other words, it's like the unwanted friend entering your group just to disrupt and make you ensitive to those who want to break you apart. IOW, Novell = turncoat.	Jan 24 13:23
schestowitz	Novell's PR expels these perceptions, so as to keep people dumb and trusting.	Jan 24 13:23
oiaohm2	Novell PR is double sided.	Jan 24 13:24
schestowitz	But the Real Novell needs to be exposed for what it is and what it does. It wants to make money by merely exploiting FOSS and tossing out completely all that it calls "religion"	Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2	Novell presents PR to MS that is friendly.	Jan 24 13:24
schestowitz	Like open source to free software.	Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2	So that they can get market share.	Jan 24 13:24
schestowitz	Precisely.	Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2	Novell is no real friend to Microsoft either.	Jan 24 13:24
oiaohm2	If the day every comes that Novell can get the market share without Microsoft Novell will back stab MS so fast its not funny.	Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz	It's too dependent	Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz	.NET and all..	Jan 24 13:25
oiaohm2	And that would be just history repeating.	Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz	Microsoft is not stupid	Jan 24 13:25
trmanco	schestowitz, you have dns I see, try OpenDNS -> http://www.opendns.com/	Jan 24 13:25
schestowitz	We're not as stupid as MS needs us to be, but neither is Microsoft (stupid as we hope)	Jan 24 13:26
schestowitz	trmanco: that problem is resolved now.	Jan 24 13:26
oiaohm2	Other companies have though they had Novell were they wanted them too.	Jan 24 13:26
trmanco	ok	Jan 24 13:26
trmanco	just in case you DNS gets laggy, make the switch	Jan 24 13:26
schestowitz	Windows in hospitals... a bad combination http://wamukota.blogspot.com/2009/01/win...	Jan 24 13:27
trmanco	your*	Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz	trmanco: thanks, I will	Jan 24 13:27
oiaohm2	The effective of the MS Novell deal has also cut into MS bottom line.	Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz	"The Conficker- aka Downadup-worm http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_153464.htm is attacking Window based platforms at a terrific rate. The worm uses a security breach in the Windows Server Service and although MS issued a patch - MS08-067 - the worm still manages to bypass the patched systems."	Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz	Windows literally causes death	Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz	Where is the press when it comes to covering it	Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz	I get E-mails saying that they should be prosecuted if damages can be estimated and a bill serves.	Jan 24 13:27
schestowitz	*ved	Jan 24 13:27
oiaohm2	Virus strikes are normally not that well covered.	Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz	oiaohm2: not really	Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz	MS-Novell deal = Microsoft makes money from Linux	Jan 24 13:28
benJIman	Because that would never happen if they were using GNU/Linux O_o	Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz	It's a leeching tactic	Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz	benJIman: hundreds of millions of zombies?	Jan 24 13:28
MinceR	geekings	Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz	Self-replicating virus/zombie instances?	Jan 24 13:28
schestowitz	RPC..	Jan 24 13:29
oiaohm2	It has schestowitz. Its a double sided effect. Number one MS pays Novell more than Novell has to pay them. Number two when MS people are selling Suse Linux they sudendly made Linux as a whole a more trustable option.	Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz	Microsoft doesn't pay Novell	Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz	Microsoft helps Novell sell SUSE	Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz	Why?	Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz	To replace Free Linux	Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz	They try to set a 'satndard' where Linux is not free	Jan 24 13:29
schestowitz	Where Linux is a Microsoft cash cow	Jan 24 13:30
trmanco	schestowitz, look like Asay is your fan now	Jan 24 13:30
oiaohm2	The agreement between Novell and Microsoft. Required Microsoft to promote SUSE.	Jan 24 13:30
trmanco	looks*	Jan 24 13:30
schestowitz	Annual Free Software Foundation Fundraiser < http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/20090122-00 >	Jan 24 13:30
oiaohm2	Novell does not have to premote MS products.	Jan 24 13:30
schestowitz	oiaohm2: I'd rather they didn't promote SUSE	Jan 24 13:30
schestowitz	They should promote Free software, not Micro-Novell-ware	Jan 24 13:30
oiaohm2	How else could you get Linux in front of MS brain washed drones and have them try it.	Jan 24 13:31
MinceR	how is m$-sold suse more trustable?	Jan 24 13:31
MinceR	how is anything coming out of m$ trustable?	Jan 24 13:31
MinceR	have you ever used their products?	Jan 24 13:31
oiaohm2	Yes I have used there products. I know what MS IT drones are like.	Jan 24 13:31
schestowitz	They could use Ubuntu	Jan 24 13:32
oiaohm2	If it has MS on it they trust it.	Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz	SUSE doesn't have a Microsoft logo on it	Jan 24 13:32
oiaohm2	If it does not they will not touch it.	Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz	Ubuntu or Red Hat are recognised names	Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz	They don't need a Ballmer collage with a lizard to have them try SuSE	Jan 24 13:32
MinceR	well, the m$ IT drone i know won't use it anyway	Jan 24 13:32
oiaohm2	By places with Linux personal Ubuntu and Redhat are recognised names.	Jan 24 13:32
MinceR	because he believes GPL is unholy	Jan 24 13:32
schestowitz	Holy?	Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz	What is he religious?	Jan 24 13:33
MinceR	yes, of course	Jan 24 13:33
MinceR	all m$ cultists are	Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz	The Microsoftology Church	Jan 24 13:33
MinceR	their religion is that m$ products are usable and reliable	Jan 24 13:33
benJIman	schestowitz: If everyone were running linux then most likely.	Jan 24 13:33
MinceR	they're like scientologists in their militant ignorance	Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/20/sc...	Jan 24 13:33
schestowitz	Microsoft -- the company where Jihad is a commonly used word (internally)... even by the chariman	Jan 24 13:34
MinceR	give them a source that disproves the bullshit they're spreading and they'll either ignore it (not even reading it) or will try to smear the source	Jan 24 13:34
schestowitz	"Unholy" sources.	Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz	Must be IDG\|MSNBC\|Forbes\|Motley Fools\|..	Jan 24 13:35
oiaohm2	Novell actions have reduced the numbers of MS IT drones. Of course not some of the die hards.	Jan 24 13:35
oiaohm2	Its really ill wind that brings no good.	Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz	"MS IT drones"?	Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz	Miguel?	Jan 24 13:35
schestowitz	Oh, this reminds me to do a Mono post	Jan 24 13:36
oiaohm2	Miguel annoying does what ever he to help Novell profits.	Jan 24 13:36
oiaohm2	For a long time he got away with it too. It was always interesting in if there was a SUSE linux release about a week before a gnome release one of Miguel patches would break Gnome yet version in SUSE Linux would be fine.	Jan 24 13:37
benJIman	O_o	Jan 24 13:38
oiaohm2	Novell trys to hold him up as a trustable open source respsentive.	Jan 24 13:38
benJIman	Miguel hasn't been working on GNOME directly while SUSE has been owned by Novell.	Jan 24 13:38
oiaohm2	Gnome developers woke up to what was going on before Novell took over Novell.	Jan 24 13:39
oiaohm2	Oppa	Jan 24 13:39
oiaohm2	Suse	Jan 24 13:39
benJIman	Miguel was (is) nothing todo with suse.	Jan 24 13:40
benJIman	He came from ximian...	Jan 24 13:40
schestowitz	So?	Jan 24 13:42
schestowitz	There is no Ximian anymore	Jan 24 13:42
schestowitz	Now he just Microsoftises Novell	Jan 24 13:42
benJIman	So oiaohm2's miguel-suse conspiracy is amusing.	Jan 24 13:42
MinceR	they're in the same company now	Jan 24 13:43
MinceR	even legally	Jan 24 13:43
benJIman	And you're claiming miguel is submitting patches to GNOME that break it in non-suse distributions. Have you even checked what miguel has committed in the last 5 years?	Jan 24 13:44
benJIman	Of course actually doing any research instead of just inventing elaborate conspiracy theories would be too much effort.	Jan 24 13:44
oiaohm2	It was more of a delay benjiman than a break.	Jan 24 13:44
benJIman	oiaohm2: He's not even working on GNOME...	Jan 24 13:45
oiaohm2	And I did not say it was in the last 5 years either.	Jan 24 13:45
benJIman	oiaohm2: Before that he had nothing todo with suse.	Jan 24 13:46
benJIman	Not that he does now really.	Jan 24 13:46
schestowitz	benJIman: SUSE is a priority at Novell	Jan 24 13:49
schestowitz	So it's likely that Novell's GNOME programmers will adopt a "SUSE first" policy	Jan 24 13:49
schestowitz	ANything else would be absurd, based on the very definition of a company's operation	Jan 24 13:50
schestowitz	Moonlight is easier to install in *SUSE too	Jan 24 13:50
schestowitz	benJIman: this is no "theory"	Jan 24 13:50
schestowitz	The onlt "conspiracy" here is real. Novell and Microsoft conspired against many. By the conservative definition of the word "conspiracy"...	Jan 24 13:51
benJIman	You are changing the subject.	Jan 24 13:51
schestowitz	How so?	Jan 24 13:51
schestowitz	You're tossing insults	Jan 24 13:51
benJIman	I was referring to oiaohm2's crazy hypothesis of miguel submitting patches to gnome to break it in non-suse distros.	Jan 24 13:51
schestowitz	You sound like the mystic sharks from Novell who try to gag reporters	Jan 24 13:52
benJIman	When miguel is working on mono rather than gnome, and before that had nothing todo with suse.	Jan 24 13:52
schestowitz	benJIman: oh, that theory is not substantiated.	Jan 24 13:52
oiaohm2	I never said breaking non-suse distributions. It caused delays in the release cycle.	Jan 24 13:52
schestowitz	That seems plausible but needs proof	Jan 24 13:52
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/24/adv...	Jan 24 13:53
benJIman	How is it plausable? It's patently false.	Jan 24 13:53
benJIman	You can go look at the commits for GNOME if you want.	Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz	Prove it.	Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz	Whenever someone alleges something, the first question that come to mind is, "is this true?"	Jan 24 13:53
benJIman	You want me to prove it false, I'm not the one making ludicrous accusations.	Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz	Show evidence... either side.	Jan 24 13:53
schestowitz	I asked oiaohm for proof	Jan 24 13:54
schestowitz	It seems more like an hypothesis than a factual situation.. so gathering of some evidence -- even circumstantial -- would help. I doubt he just made this up... maybe he overheard it somewhere, so let's find out	Jan 24 13:55
oiaohm2	Note I said interesting. This is important it was a effect that was happening but without large enough to lay a case against him fully.	Jan 24 13:55
benJIman	re that blog post, it's hardly mono's fault that your distro hasn't bothered to package moonlight ^_^	Jan 24 13:55
oiaohm2	Remember I was using Linux from 1994 on.	Jan 24 13:56
oiaohm2	Yes its a hell load of back logs to dig threw.	Jan 24 13:56
MinceR	don't they keep saying that it's illegal to use moonlight anywhere but on suse?	Jan 24 13:56
oiaohm2	Not exactly MinceR	Jan 24 13:56
oiaohm2	illegal to redistrubite it.	Jan 24 13:57
oiaohm2	So download it from Novell and use it fine.	Jan 24 13:57
oiaohm2	Bundle it in a distribution not fine.	Jan 24 13:57
MinceR	so that's why other distros don't package it.	Jan 24 13:57
oiaohm2	Yep	Jan 24 13:57
MinceR	not that i'd want to install that crap anyway.	Jan 24 13:57
MinceR	if i want bloated, cpu-eating crap on my webpages, i have Adobe Trash for that.	Jan 24 13:58
benJIman	Which is non-free.	Jan 24 13:58
benJIman	oiaohm2: That only applies to the version with microsoft's codecs included.	Jan 24 13:58
benJIman	The ffmpeg one infringes other people's patents but not microsoft's.	Jan 24 13:58
oiaohm2	You try using it on sliverlight sites without MS codecs	Jan 24 13:59
schestowitz	MinceR: yes, the SFLC says so in a way	Jan 24 13:59
MinceR	benJIman: just like silverlie/moonlie	Jan 24 13:59
MinceR	what a coincidence!	Jan 24 13:59
MinceR	except there's gnash for trash...	Jan 24 14:00
benJIman	Moonlight is free software.	Jan 24 14:00
MinceR	"non-redistributable" is not free.	Jan 24 14:00
benJIman	There are no software patents here, and if there were then silverlight would be the least of my worries.	Jan 24 14:00
MinceR	sw patent encumbered isn't free, either.	Jan 24 14:00
benJIman	As every single piece of software I use probably infringes several software patents.	Jan 24 14:00
schestowitz	Novell redefines free	Jan 24 14:00
trmanco	http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/2009/01/21...	Jan 24 14:00
benJIman	MinceR: I doubt you use any software that doesn't infringe patents.	Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz	Free-but-patents-encumbered (patents "We acknowledge and pay protection for")	Jan 24 14:01
MinceR	benJIman: the way those patent threats are used makes all the difference.	Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz	Novell's definitono of FOSS is a superset, a mixes set, poisonware	Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz	*mise	Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz	d*mixed	Jan 24 14:01
schestowitz	Novell's approach: we separate open and proprietary and SELL you "MIXED SOURCE"	Jan 24 14:02
schestowitz	This renders GNU/Linux just a niche	Jan 24 14:02
schestowitz	Novell wants to attach to it a "complement" you must pay for... like Ubuntu Remix	Jan 24 14:02
MinceR	who must pay for ubuntu remix?	Jan 24 14:03
schestowitz	I'just just received an E-mail saying: "See what KDE developers tell about FreeDesktop.org: http://dot.kde.org/1232669203/ Freedesktop was abused as a means to politically push Ximian/Novell technologies. With Mono and the like it even gets more dangerous."	Jan 24 14:04
schestowitz	Kind of like go-mono?	Jan 24 14:04
MinceR	worse	Jan 24 14:04
schestowitz	go-mono.com/...	Jan 24 14:05
schestowitz	Go-OOXML	Jan 24 14:05
schestowitz	Whats' the "go" for?	Jan 24 14:05
MinceR	wait, i've confused go-mono with go-oo	Jan 24 14:05
MinceR	dunno	Jan 24 14:05
MinceR	probably mono.com was already taken	Jan 24 14:05
MinceR	so they've gone the lame workaround way	Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz	Why go-oo?	Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz	Will there be go-linux?	Jan 24 14:06
MinceR	because they had go-mono already	Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz	go-microsoft?	Jan 24 14:06
schestowitz	go-miguel-go-so!	Jan 24 14:06
oiaohm2	Its not like Mono is playing by MS rules either.	Jan 24 14:06
MinceR	also, OOo was already renamed to match the domain name	Jan 24 14:06
oiaohm2	Mono has AOT mode that basically in time will make .net like any other language that can be complied.	Jan 24 14:07
MinceR	nah, "go-linux" is called "suse" and "opensuse"	Jan 24 14:07
MinceR	or you mean forking the kernel?	Jan 24 14:07
MinceR	i doubt they have the resources needed to maintain a fork	Jan 24 14:07
MinceR	and distro-specific patches tend to be kept as part of the distro	Jan 24 14:08
benJIman	Most distros have some kernel patches. Ubuntu has a shedload. They're essentially forks.	Jan 24 14:08
MinceR	or putting mono in the kernel? i think that's unlikely	Jan 24 14:08
oiaohm2	Not exactly.	Jan 24 14:08
MinceR	benJIman: i know	Jan 24 14:08
benJIman	Are you implying ht Novell is putting mono in the kenrel?	Jan 24 14:09
MinceR	benJIman: i meant a fork that doesn't follow the mainline anymore	Jan 24 14:09
oiaohm2	Ubuntu kernel is a offical branch of the Linux kernel git system like most other distributions kernels.	Jan 24 14:09
MinceR	benJIman: not implying, just toying with the idea	Jan 24 14:09
schestowitz	MinceR: Novell is shrinking. It can't fork anything well.	Jan 24 14:09
MinceR	looking for explanations of what schestowitz meant by "go-linux" :)	Jan 24 14:09
schestowitz	Oracle is more likely to fork, but what for?	Jan 24 14:09
schestowitz	Oracle might fork RHEL, not Linux.	Jan 24 14:09
benJIman	A free OS like microsoft's singluarity would be sweet.	Jan 24 14:10
benJIman	* singularity	Jan 24 14:10
oiaohm2	It already exists benJIman	Jan 24 14:10
benJIman	There's sharpos etc, not got very far.	Jan 24 14:10
schestowitz	*me sees benJIman getting a hardon for MS technologies.	Jan 24 14:10
MinceR	lol	Jan 24 14:10
MinceR	it's mandatory for the flock, you see	Jan 24 14:11
benJIman	Managed code is good. Whether it's .net or another platform it doesn't matter too much.	Jan 24 14:11
MinceR	building an os on managed code seems to be good only for one thing -- locking people into a platform	Jan 24 14:11
schestowitz	Cool: http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2009/01...	Jan 24 14:11
MinceR	a .net os can only run .net apps, a java os can run only java apps, ...	Jan 24 14:11
oiaohm2	MS need for a mangle code OS is to complete with Linxu.	Jan 24 14:12
benJIman	Of course safety, stability, and performance are not important eh MinceR ?	Jan 24 14:12
oiaohm2	Slightly wrong	Jan 24 14:12
benJIman	MinceR: That's ont true.	Jan 24 14:12
MinceR	benJIman: you don't need managed code for those	Jan 24 14:12
benJIman	a .net OS could run any apps.	Jan 24 14:12
oiaohm2	a java OS and .net OS cannot run the others though translated.	Jan 24 14:12
MinceR	there's hardware support to ensure those already	Jan 24 14:12
oiaohm2	Singlarity cannot run other than .net benJIman	Jan 24 14:12
MinceR	a managed os only means you're not taking advantage of them	Jan 24 14:12
benJIman	MinceR: The majority of the types of vulnerabilities found in linux et al nowadays would not occur in managed code.	Jan 24 14:12
benJIman	oiaohm2: That doesn't mean the same applies to any managed OS.	Jan 24 14:13
MinceR	other vulnerabilities would occur instead.	Jan 24 14:13
schestowitz	http://opensourcecinema.org/	Jan 24 14:13
oiaohm2	reason singlarity is ment to be cross cpu type.	Jan 24 14:13
benJIman	MinceR: Of course, that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to avoid the ones we can.	Jan 24 14:13
oiaohm2	Linux user space drivers can be writen in anything.	Jan 24 14:14
oiaohm2	Most warped so far is a robotic arm controller writen in python.	Jan 24 14:14
MinceR	well, i guess it would be possible to run managed servers on a microkernel system...	Jan 24 14:21
oiaohm2	Main idea is AOT.	Jan 24 14:22
oiaohm2	So you still have a mono lithic kernel.	Jan 24 14:23
oiaohm2	Difference is that bytecode can be audited on built to the native code of the platform far more effectively than native cpu code.	Jan 24 14:23
MinceR	what's AOT?	Jan 24 14:23
oiaohm2	Ahead of time processing of bytecode.	Jan 24 14:24
MinceR	ic	Jan 24 14:24
oiaohm2	Yep basicaly bytecode to native code conversion.	Jan 24 14:24
oiaohm2	Gcj in gcc has it for java.	Jan 24 14:24
MinceR	i don't see why this has to be in the kernel, though	Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2	Mono is working on it for .net. So yes in future a Linux driver written in C# sharp would be possiable.	Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2	Just like a java driver in Linux kernel is possiable now.	Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2	Yes major ic	Jan 24 14:25
oiaohm2	Only minorly less ic than ndiswrapper.	Jan 24 14:26
oiaohm2	Issue here is going mangled was though to be required for stablity. Tools are starting to appear that can do all the auditing mangling offered but on native code.	Jan 24 14:34
schestowitz	What would Novell gain?/	Jan 24 14:36
schestowitz	Or its ally, Microsoft? How could they exploit it?	Jan 24 14:36
schestowitz	Linus has been hard core about C (he mocked C++), so I can see it being marketed to "them" as a 'better manages code".. as in, lets make Linus more 'modular' (in the object-oriented sense).. the offer Mono.	Jan 24 14:37
schestowitz	*then ; Linux;	Jan 24 14:37
oiaohm2	There are a lot of things that don't go main line.	Jan 24 14:38
oiaohm2	Question is how Linux gains from a mono with aot that can put drivers into Linux kernel. Same way ndiswrapper gains linux with windows drivers now except for singlarity.	Jan 24 14:39
oiaohm2	Not all Novell actions are about the advantage of Microsoft.	Jan 24 14:39
MinceR	how can you tell?	Jan 24 14:41
oiaohm2	Fairly simply. Does this action help MS long term profit. AoT really does not. Since with AoT platforms can now run .net applications without having to licence an .net envorment.	Jan 24 14:43
oiaohm2	Reduces .net to nothing more than a development envorment.	Jan 24 14:44
MinceR	that depends on what they can do with their patent threats	Jan 24 14:44
oiaohm2	You cannot patent attack the device maker instead would have to patent attack the developer of application.	Jan 24 14:44
MinceR	also, isn't JIT better than AoT? :>	Jan 24 14:44
oiaohm2	JiT in some cases produces better performance than AoT but not many.	Jan 24 14:45
benJIman	Jits can always be faster, have more optimisation options open to them.	Jan 24 14:45
oiaohm2	Depends on the optimisation engine benJIman	Jan 24 14:45
benJIman	That's why I said can.	Jan 24 14:46
benJIman	AoT has less information to base its optimisation on.	Jan 24 14:46
oiaohm2	Some of the AoT ones are getting able to do the jit optimisations though code path prediction.	Jan 24 14:46
schestowitz	oiaohm2: a lot of Novell's revenue seems to come from Windows and Microsoft	Jan 24 14:46
schestowitz	Netware... SUSE vouchers, etc.	Jan 24 14:46
benJIman	For short running things it makes little difference. For long running things like services JIT realy comes into its own.	Jan 24 14:46
schestowitz	It makes Novell part of the MS ecosystem.	Jan 24 14:46
benJIman	oiaohm2: Profiling information is not available ahead of time. AoT compilers can't make "optimistic assumptions" about the programme and then alter the generated code if they turn out to be false.	Jan 24 14:47
oiaohm2	Depends what kind of AoT again.	Jan 24 14:48
benJIman	Nope that information is just not available.	Jan 24 14:48
oiaohm2	Its the basic idea you have that polymorphic machine code and AoT cannot mix.	Jan 24 14:50
oiaohm2	It really does depend purely on the type of AoT used if or if not it can have more than one path on offer.	Jan 24 14:50
benJIman	That's not the same thing at all.	Jan 24 14:51
benJIman	A JIT compiler generates different machine code at runtime. AoT is just generating different codepaths.	Jan 24 14:51
oiaohm2	Funny enough lot of what the JIT is doing is covered by multiable paths.	Jan 24 14:52
oiaohm2	Like if function is called with statics solve out so you don't have to waste time there.	Jan 24 14:53
oiaohm2	It really comes down to the AoT. Jit advantage is not in speed its size.	Jan 24 14:53
benJIman	No its really not that sort of thing it does. Look at some of the papers on the optimisations that hotspot does.	Jan 24 14:53
*benJIman -> pub.		Jan 24 14:54
oiaohm2	Read the papers on how portland group complier does things.	Jan 24 14:54
oiaohm2	You find hotspot and portland basically do the same things.	Jan 24 14:54
oiaohm2	And get the same speed results.	Jan 24 14:55
oiaohm2	One is aot one is jit.	Jan 24 14:55
oiaohm2	Different is portland executable is a lot larger to achive the same things.	Jan 24 14:55
oiaohm2	There is only a limited numbers of paths though an application.	Jan 24 14:56
oiaohm2	Funny enough AoT can beat JiT for a while because a lot of time was spent on profiling before the application was run with AoT, So basically JiT is playing catch up.	Jan 24 14:59
oiaohm2	Idea is mostly a system that can use both perfectly.	Jan 24 15:00
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oiaohm2	Lot of jit is faster is put head to head with gcc what is one of the worst optimising C compliers in existance.	Jan 24 15:05
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*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.97.215.41) has joined #boycottnovell		Jan 24 15:20
zer0c00l	hi room, I have created and maintaining a blog,which apposes an university in india for using proprietary software in education, Can you people give me links on colleges/universities who uses free software to add up information in that blog	Jan 24 15:23
zer0c00l	*opposes	Jan 24 15:23
zer0c00l	Mainly they are using M$'s products	Jan 24 15:24
zer0c00l	here is the blog http://annauniv-tamilnadu.blogspot.com/	Jan 24 15:24
schestowitz	Hey	Jan 24 15:31
*schestowitz looks		Jan 24 15:32
schestowitz	Just links relating to education?	Jan 24 15:33
zer0c00l	schools who use free software	Jan 24 15:33
zer0c00l	and their ratings	Jan 24 15:33
zer0c00l	how quality of education improved when they used free software	Jan 24 15:34
zer0c00l	some popular schools who use free software	Jan 24 15:34
*Melio (n=melio@c-76-23-101-169.hsd1.sc.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Jan 24 15:38
Melio	If by stating "I don't like microsoft", does this also mean, I don't want to run opensuse, because of the patents?	Jan 24 15:39
Melio	I know this comes up alot	Jan 24 15:39
Melio	the relationship between opensuse and ms	Jan 24 15:39
schestowitz	opensuse is a more complicated subject	Jan 24 15:44
schestowitz	But it makes SLE*	Jan 24 15:44
schestowitz	zer0c00l: in which country? Schools names?	Jan 24 15:45
zer0c00l	any country... if its india it will be nice	Jan 24 15:45
Melio	I think i'll just stay away from opensuse	Jan 24 15:45
Melio	there's a ton of users in our lug that run it. but I'm a little aphrensive	Jan 24 15:46
zer0c00l	schestowitz: yeah	Jan 24 15:46
schestowitz	I don't know names. But we definitely need such an index	Jan 24 15:57
schestowitz	FOSS friendliness in different schools.	Jan 24 15:57
zer0c00l	ok	Jan 24 15:57
schestowitz	Melio: try Mandriva.	Jan 24 15:57
schestowitz	It had both GNOME and KDE.	Jan 24 15:57
zer0c00l	i read some where in fsf.org ... "if you your schools use free software,please report us, we will add them to our list"	Jan 24 15:58
schestowitz	Yes, that makes sense.	Jan 24 15:58
zer0c00l	schestowitz: i will check it out	Jan 24 15:58
schestowitz	I don't know if such a list exists.... never seen one.	Jan 24 15:59
zer0c00l	ok	Jan 24 15:59
schestowitz	the FSF site can share rsults of research into it.	Jan 24 15:59
zer0c00l	ok	Jan 24 15:59
zer0c00l	bye see u again... thanks	Jan 24 16:00
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@117.97.215.41) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")		Jan 24 16:00
schestowitz	Hehe! I'm listed here: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/01/...	Jan 24 16:00
Melio	that's pretty cool	Jan 24 16:02
Melio	your a celeb	Jan 24 16:02
Melio	time to sell t-shirts	Jan 24 16:02
Melio	don't get too greedy or anonymous will hack your website	Jan 24 16:02
schestowitz	crack?	Jan 24 16:03
Melio	i said hack	Jan 24 16:03
Melio	don't get it confused	Jan 24 16:03
Melio	:P	Jan 24 16:03
schestowitz	I know.	Jan 24 16:03
schestowitz	How does one hack a site?	Jan 24 16:03
Melio	they're latest is www.dontcuss.com	Jan 24 16:04
schestowitz	tossing in hundreds of DLL files that are empty?	Jan 24 16:04
Melio	they claim the website is being used to generate income for the parents	Jan 24 16:04
Melio	it's on wikinews.com	Jan 24 16:05
Melio	http://en.wikinews.org/wi...	Jan 24 16:05
Melio	sorry. .org	Jan 24 16:05
twitter	good morning.	Jan 24 16:40
twitter	nice boot sabotage write up. I had no idea Vista was as hostile as it is.	Jan 24 16:40
twitter	I'll have to update the vista failure log with that information.	Jan 24 16:41
twitter	one thing to note is that the hand written notes are all contained in brackets {like this}.	Jan 24 16:43
twitter	The text does not deliver the full emphasis of Mr. Ballmer's all but animated notation, but most of the meaning is delivered.	Jan 24 16:43
schestowitz	twitter: thanks.	Jan 24 16:43
schestowitz	You got lots of the text there.	Jan 24 16:44
twitter	thank you for collecting the vista boot stories and tying these things together.	Jan 24 16:44
schestowitz	http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Histor...	Jan 24 16:44
schestowitz	I reckon BN did about 1 million hits yesterday	Jan 24 16:45
twitter	the full picture is greater than the sum of it's parts.	Jan 24 16:45
schestowitz	I had caching enabled until this morning.	Jan 24 16:45
twitter	cool	Jan 24 16:45
schestowitz	Statis don't mean much anymore when requests are send to coral distributed cache	Jan 24 16:45
schestowitz	But it's important that people read it and get informed	Jan 24 16:46
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 24 17:04:55 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell		Jan 24 17:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]		Jan 24 17:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008		Jan 24 17:04
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel		Jan 24 17:04
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz.		Jan 24 17:05
*services. sets mode +e schestowitz		Jan 24 17:05
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz		Jan 24 17:05
schestowitz	I needed to restart KDE. Did I miss anything here?	Jan 24 17:05
MinceR	nope	Jan 24 17:05
schestowitz	Thanks.	Jan 24 17:06
MinceR	np	Jan 24 17:06
schestowitz	I need to get logger_bot up again.	Jan 24 17:06
schestowitz	twitter: Someone sent this: "I know these are old, but it was what we were given at the time by the "Roadshow" people visiting our site. It has to do with the SSD's, "http://www.liliputing.com/2008/07/sandisk-wi... http://www.betanews.com/article/SanDisk_wont_s... http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...	Jan 24 17:40
schestowitz	s_vista_poor_ssd_performance	Jan 24 17:40
schestowitz	http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news... (possibly useful to faiilurelog, probably the same with Vista7)	Jan 24 17:40
schestowitz	Another reader says that "One conclusion about MS begging congress for relaxing the H1b rules is to "get better workers" is that anyone that knows any IT also knows what MS is about and doesn't want to work there."	Jan 24 17:41
twitter	hey, interesting stuff.	Jan 24 17:45
schestowitz	bbl	Jan 24 17:46
twitter	I think I got the SSD problems way back when. SSD burnout is a natural extension of Vista's crazy indexing system and "ready boost" was cruel joke.	Jan 24 17:46
twitter	later. I'll digest this.	Jan 24 17:46
twitter	multiboot sabotage was submitted.	Jan 24 17:46
twitter	http://news.slashdot.org/firehose.pl...	Jan 24 17:46
twitter	I wonder if it will be picked up or considered so much old news about old news.	Jan 24 17:47
twitter	maximum pc vendor blame article is gone 404	Jan 24 17:48
twitter	"Vista isn’t optimized for solid state disks" was big bullshit spin.	Jan 24 17:49
twitter	Here's the write up I did at the time. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/211741	Jan 24 17:51
twitter	It's good to keep this in mind when people talk about Vista and Vista7 on netbooks. They can't use SSD unless they fundamentally alter Vista - not going to happen.	Jan 24 17:53
twitter	Instead, they will look for wasy sabotage SSDs for GNU/Linux, which already has special file systems and ram disk to wear level and reduce access.	Jan 24 17:54
twitter	Ugh, I hate how they also tried to spin Vista as "full featured" and GNU/Linux as "Simple"	Jan 24 17:56
macabe_	Are SSD ideal for random access? Therefore, the need to defrag moot?	Jan 24 17:58
PetoKraus	umm today i actually feel good at work	Jan 24 18:06
PetoKraus	there was a woman, in her thirties i guess	Jan 24 18:06
PetoKraus	she was like "oh fuck it, i really want to learn how this work, but I can't/don't know how to"	Jan 24 18:06
PetoKraus	i told her to wait for a second, I wrote "www.ubuntu.com" on a post it note, and told her, if she has old machine which is not used for much and can't possibly be screwed much more, then she should visit that page, download the ISO and burn it and play around with it	Jan 24 18:07
PetoKraus	that it's the best way to learn	Jan 24 18:08
PetoKraus	feels so much better now :D	Jan 24 18:08
PetoKraus	yeah and at the end of the shift there was this linux newbie who tried to fix his corrupted Ubuntu Linux partition by vista recovery cd	Jan 24 18:09
PetoKraus	oh well :D	Jan 24 18:09
twitter	macabe: SSDs are good for random access. Special file systems avoid extra writes. I've updated the disk thrash listing above and the Vista Failure Log to reflect boot sabotage. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855	Jan 24 18:29
twitter	Peto, I'm sorry to hear that people reach for the problem to correct the solution. I wonder what happened to their Ubuntu partition, SP1?	Jan 24 18:31
twitter	I think Ubuntu makes a separate home partition by default, but it's a good practice to tell people. That way they can fix their system by reinstall without wiping their files.	Jan 24 18:32
twitter	lunch time here, bbl	Jan 24 18:32
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schestowitz	Turns out I'm told that US unemployment might actually be 17% by old definitions that are comparable with the 1930s	Jan 24 20:18
PetoKraus	alright guys	Jan 24 20:21
PetoKraus	time for a whiskey for every ghost	Jan 24 20:21
PetoKraus	see you later	Jan 24 20:21
schestowitz	Maybe Windows decided t bite the Ubuntu partition/ partitoon table.	Jan 24 20:21
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schestowitz	Reader: "Let's keep finding nuggets to draw to the attention of the press. And tone down the personal remarks, stick to the facts and let others form an opinion as to the values of those who act like MS."	Jan 24 21:14
schestowitz	I need your help. All will be published, eventually. Let's sort and organise thing in the Wiki..	Jan 24 21:15
trmanco	"You can buy 2 x 1Tb hard drives and install Linux instead	Jan 24 21:27
trmanco	of buying the PISTA higher cost versions."	Jan 24 21:27
schestowitz	Pista7?	Jan 24 21:45
schestowitz	"7" says "PISTA"	Jan 24 21:45
trmanco	yes it, he is the author of that quote	Jan 24 21:53
trmanco	forget "it"	Jan 24 21:53
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schestowitz	trmanco: don't borrow "windummies" too :-)	Jan 24 22:00
trmanco	LOL	Jan 24 22:02
trmanco	and microshaft :-P	Jan 24 22:02
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schestowitz	Atheistische Kampagnen weiten sich aus Atheistic campaigns are expanding < http://translate.google.com/transl... >	Jan 24 22:32
trmanco	typedef int number;	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	class microsoft : public corporation, public enemy<(number) 1> {	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	public:	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	microsoft()	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	{	Jan 24 22:36
twitter	What personal remarks is your reader talking about? Your summaries are usually correct and you back them with links to crimes. Sounds like he's trying to get you to self censor. Be yourself and you will do the best job you can. Be someone else and you won't.	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	sanity = 200;	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	bill_gates = drop_out();	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	ceo = bill_gates;	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	while (sanity > 2) {	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	sleep(2);	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	sanity--;	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	}	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	steve_ballmer = new class doofus;	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	}	Jan 24 22:36
twitter	I'm up for organization.	Jan 24 22:36
trmanco	http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/d...	Jan 24 22:36
twitter	Comcast screwing competitors and clients through "traffic management"	Jan 24 22:45
twitter	http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/09/0...	Jan 24 22:45
twitter	Slashdot is getting it's groove back http://news.slashdot.org/news/09...	Jan 24 22:48
twitter	They managed to combine several related stories.	Jan 24 22:48
twitter	and then they do this flamebait summary. http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?...	Jan 24 22:52
twitter	The article itself is interesting, http://www.computerworld.com/action/arti...	Jan 24 22:53
twitter	the summary makes you think, "what is that ass saying now?!!"	Jan 24 22:53
twitter	very interesting stuff about git and java	Jan 24 22:55
schestowitz	Comcast us MS-funded	Jan 24 23:01
schestowitz	Another cable company that's with Microsoft did this not so long ago	Jan 24 23:02
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schestowitz	IBM Confirms Layoffs < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158273/ibm... >	Jan 24 23:19
*ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p6070-ipad06yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell		Jan 24 23:53

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 24th, 2009

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