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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 2nd, 2009 - Part 3

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mitsuhikojose: i already read itFeb 02 18:57
MinceRmitsuhiko: define "gpl crap"Feb 02 18:57
josemitsuhiko, the cli is a low footprint solutionFeb 02 18:58
The_Mad_Hattermitsuhiko - it's clumsy as hell to work with. That's a problem.Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhikoMinceR: i can't use it?Feb 02 18:58
josemitsuhiko, well what did you think?Feb 02 18:58
mitsuhikogpl only works with gplFeb 02 18:58
MinceRnot reallyFeb 02 18:58
MinceRread the faq at fsf.orgFeb 02 18:58
The_Mad_Hattermitsuhiko - it's worse than netbeans.Feb 02 18:58
MinceRyou can use non-gpl libraries from gpl appsFeb 02 18:58
mitsuhikoMinceR: readline is a gpl libraryFeb 02 18:58
mitsuhikoyou can't use it from non gpl codeFeb 02 18:58
mitsuhikoget your facts rightFeb 02 18:58
MinceRthen write gpl codeFeb 02 18:58
mitsuhikowhich is something i won't doFeb 02 18:59
MinceRyou said you _can't_ do itFeb 02 18:59
MinceRnot that you _won't_ do itFeb 02 18:59
MinceRlearn the differenceFeb 02 18:59
mitsuhikoMinceR: i can't and i won'tFeb 02 18:59
MinceRwhy can't you?Feb 02 18:59
MinceRdoes your religion forbid you from doing so?Feb 02 18:59
schestowitzMS DRM history: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/02/mic...Feb 02 18:59
mitsuhikoi can't because people depend on my stuff being non gpl and i hate the gpl for what it stands forFeb 02 18:59
MinceR(that would be my guess)Feb 02 18:59
mitsuhikowhich is something i cannot supportFeb 02 19:00
The_Mad_Hattergpl is useful for some things. BSD or MIT for others.Feb 02 19:00
mitsuhikoschestowitz: the world is bad, deal with itFeb 02 19:00
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - you hate the GPL? Tell us more.Feb 02 19:00
josegpl is quite useful i findFeb 02 19:00
MinceRwhich people depend on all your stuff being non gpl and why?Feb 02 19:00
mitsuhikobut what does that have to do with mono?Feb 02 19:00
mitsuhikolet microsoft do their thing, let the mono guys to theirsFeb 02 19:00
MinceRlet's not let microsoft do their thingFeb 02 19:00
MinceRit has already resulted in a lot of damageFeb 02 19:01
josenor encourage the mono people to help microsoftFeb 02 19:01
The_Mad_HatterI found a new blog - Microsoft Delenda Est!Feb 02 19:01
The_Mad_Hatterhttp://microsoftdelendaest.blo...Feb 02 19:01
mitsuhikooh boy. you will never stop will you? :-/Feb 02 19:01
MinceRmitsuhiko: will you?Feb 02 19:01
The_Mad_HatterFor those who can't read Latin it translates to "Microsoft must be destroyed"Feb 02 19:02
mitsuhikoMinceR: i don't know about you, but i for myself try to stay unbiased as much as i canFeb 02 19:02
josemitsuhiko, gpl mono and mono with (let's assume) a patent grant from microsoft doesn't fix the damage: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l... this is part two.. part one is the other linkFeb 02 19:02
mitsuhikoand if that means adopting other people's opinions when it turns out that they are right, that's what i will doFeb 02 19:02
josethe mono guys can do their things.. and BN does it's thingFeb 02 19:02
MinceRmitsuhiko: well, you seem to be brutally unsuccessfulFeb 02 19:02
mitsuhikowhich is why i don't blindly support the gplFeb 02 19:02
MinceRyou will blindly diss it instead, as we could seeFeb 02 19:03
josewell, closed source monopolies are incompatible with fossFeb 02 19:03
mitsuhikoMinceR: i'm watching your blog for at least half a yearFeb 02 19:03
MinceRthat will be very difficultFeb 02 19:03
MinceRconsidering that i don't have a blogFeb 02 19:03
mitsuhikoyou blog being schestowitz's blogFeb 02 19:03
The_Mad_Hattermitsuhiko - but apparently not getting it.Feb 02 19:03
MinceRthat isn't my blogFeb 02 19:03
josemitsuhiko, feel free to find the fud and point to the opinion of others that is correct..in your opinion.Feb 02 19:04
MinceRit follows from the above that watching all the blogs that i have, on the other hand, is a trivial task :>Feb 02 19:04
mitsuhikoi strongly recommend any of you to talk to guys from novell or microsoft for a momentFeb 02 19:05
josewhy don't you sell me there argument right here right now.. why wait.. i hate suspense (most of time)Feb 02 19:05
MinceRthey come here from time to time so that's already givenFeb 02 19:05
The_Mad_Hattermitsuhiko - I have a bunch of microsoft guys I keep in touch with on FacebookFeb 02 19:05
josethere -> theirFeb 02 19:05
mitsuhikothere is no argument that stops the discussion as the topic is a complex oneFeb 02 19:05
mitsuhikothe world is not just black and white, and neither is novell or microsoftFeb 02 19:06
MinceRnovell and microsoft aren't black and white, indeedFeb 02 19:06
MinceRthey're blackFeb 02 19:06
joseand why don't you contribute some selling here on these forums.. what's the hold up.. let's continue with the discussion.Feb 02 19:06
MinceR(well novell is since it has become a lackey to microsoft)Feb 02 19:06
mitsuhikoMinceR: which is exactly the kind of attitude that kills a serious discussion before it startedFeb 02 19:06
The_Mad_Hattermitsuhiko - buy getting back to the important point, where is the FUD you claim Roy has posted, and give us your reasoning as to why it's FUD. Back up your claims with facts, quotations, etc.Feb 02 19:06
josei don't like nda'sFeb 02 19:06
MinceRmitsuhiko: i'm sorry for contradicting your religious beliefsFeb 02 19:07
MinceRperhaps you'd feel cozier with the other believersFeb 02 19:07
josemitsuhiko, i'll have a serious discussion with you.. while i'm on here.Feb 02 19:07
MinceRmitsuhiko: we've already called your bluffsFeb 02 19:07
mitsuhikoMinceR: religion has nothing to do with that discussionFeb 02 19:07
josei like keeping tabs on the humor, but i'll try myself to stay serious.Feb 02 19:07
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - please define the "FUD" that you claim is here.Feb 02 19:08
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: The FUD is that microsoft or anyone else could come by and "disable" your application from one moment to anotherFeb 02 19:08
mitsuhikowhich is not that will or could happenFeb 02 19:08
MinceRwhat context is that stated in?Feb 02 19:08
MinceRwhat platform, etc.Feb 02 19:08
MinceR(so i'll know what you're talking about)Feb 02 19:08
jose"disable" well a patent suit would effectively disableFeb 02 19:08
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - but it's documented that they could - see this article from 2003Feb 02 19:08
The_Mad_Hatterhttp://aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.htmlFeb 02 19:09
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: no, they can notFeb 02 19:09
joseand it need not be microsoft but could be proxies.Feb 02 19:09
mitsuhikojose: you know that this will not happenFeb 02 19:09
The_Mad_HatterI'm sorry, it's close to 200 pages long.Feb 02 19:09
josemitsuhiko.. funnyFeb 02 19:09
josemitsuhiko .. trolls have little to loseFeb 02 19:09
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - you are correct. I know this won't happen to me, since I don't use any Microsoft software.Feb 02 19:09
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: as a user of microsoft software you don't have to fear anythingFeb 02 19:10
MinceRThe_Mad_Hatter: what about monoFeb 02 19:10
MinceR?Feb 02 19:10
josetrolls love it when you have lots of $$$Feb 02 19:10
josethey also like to stiffle projects at key juncturesFeb 02 19:10
josestifleFeb 02 19:10
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - according to Microsoft I do, otherwise the EULA wouldn't mention the issueFeb 02 19:10
The_Mad_HatterMinceR - No Mono either.Feb 02 19:11
mitsuhikoi don't know about the states, but at least in europe the EULA stands on no legal basisFeb 02 19:11
mitsuhikoand the EULA has nothing to do with how patents workFeb 02 19:11
josemitsuhiko,, i am talking about as a user and dev of mono and dotnet clones /appsFeb 02 19:11
The_Mad_HatterMinceR - I removed it from Ubuntu.Feb 02 19:11
MinceRicFeb 02 19:11
mitsuhikoMinceR: .net applications are not infringing any patents by definitionFeb 02 19:12
MinceRso the framework does?Feb 02 19:12
josewhat definition are you talking about? That would be interestingFeb 02 19:12
mitsuhikothere are patents that patent parts of every compiler, every virtual machine, every framework you knowFeb 02 19:12
mitsuhikowhy don't you go after python for infringing patents?Feb 02 19:12
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - the EULA gives Microsoft the ability to do things to my computer without my permission is I am running Windows.Feb 02 19:12
josenevermind.. you meant ms dotnet, okFeb 02 19:12
MinceRmitsuhiko: the question is, which patents will they attempt to use against meFeb 02 19:13
josemicrosoft did not make those upFeb 02 19:13
joseto patent you have to inventFeb 02 19:13
MinceRballmer's threats were pretty clearFeb 02 19:13
josein the usFeb 02 19:13
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: what part of the EULA says that?Feb 02 19:13
joserandom patents pose limited hazards in contrast to guaranteed violations from api usageFeb 02 19:13
mitsuhikoMinceR: ballmer's a monkey that tries to attract shareholdersFeb 02 19:13
MinceRso why do you buy software from that monkey?Feb 02 19:14
mitsuhikowho said i did?Feb 02 19:14
mitsuhikoif you're clever you get it for freeFeb 02 19:14
josewhy don't you help fork monoFeb 02 19:14
MinceRyou keep advocating the use of m$ productsFeb 02 19:14
MinceRand a product that depends on their patentsFeb 02 19:14
mitsuhikojose: because i'm perfectly fine with how it works. no need to fork itFeb 02 19:14
joseyeah, as if modifying it would change anything really.Feb 02 19:15
joseif you did it propertlyFeb 02 19:15
mitsuhikoMinceR: that company is still called microsoft or ms, not m$Feb 02 19:15
joseof course, keeping it identical is the way to lead to guaranteed patent violationsFeb 02 19:15
joseand spread MS protocols, api, grow mindshare, etcFeb 02 19:15
mitsuhikoi don't care how creates the protocols as long as they are standardizedFeb 02 19:16
mitsuhikopeople are happily using DAAP even though apple changes the protocol every release of iTunesFeb 02 19:16
MinceRmitsuhiko: they get as much respect as they deserveFeb 02 19:16
josestandards don't change anything of what i just saidFeb 02 19:17
mitsuhikoyou can always see the devilFeb 02 19:17
josethat's bn for you... seeing and calling the devil outFeb 02 19:17
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jose:-)Feb 02 19:17
mitsuhikojose: bn?Feb 02 19:17
joseboyco...Feb 02 19:17
josethis siteFeb 02 19:17
mitsuhikowell. if you're calling it "boycot novell" you can expect pissed people joining the channelFeb 02 19:18
josei understandFeb 02 19:18
josei'd call it boycottmicrosoftFeb 02 19:18
MinceRyes, people who believe novell should get away with what they're doingFeb 02 19:18
joseand then accept the urination as a cost of doing businessFeb 02 19:18
joseboycottnovell is good as well thoughFeb 02 19:19
MinceRthe same people tend to believe that MICROS~1 should get away with what they're doing, tooFeb 02 19:19
MinceRi think it should be more generalFeb 02 19:19
joseso long as novell keeps pushing what they pushFeb 02 19:19
mitsuhikoas a matter of fact i think both companies should continue to do what they are doingFeb 02 19:19
josegreatFeb 02 19:19
josedifferent strokes for different folksFeb 02 19:20
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MinceRmitsuhiko: do they pay you?Feb 02 19:20
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mitsuhikodo you believe that we would live in a better world if microsoft and novell wouldn't be here?Feb 02 19:20
mitsuhikoMinceR: they don't care about youFeb 02 19:20
josewhat kind of question is that?Feb 02 19:20
MinceRmitsuhiko: i didn't ask about myselfFeb 02 19:20
MinceRmitsuhiko: so, do they pay you?Feb 02 19:20
josethey don't have to pay him/herFeb 02 19:21
MinceRmitsuhiko: i'm sure we'd live in a better world if m$ and novell never existedFeb 02 19:21
MinceRactually, it would be enough if m$ never existedFeb 02 19:21
MinceRwithout them, novell wouldn't be what it isFeb 02 19:21
josethat's trueFeb 02 19:21
mitsuhikoMinceR: unfortunately the english language got rid of the 2nd form singular. if course i was referring to the channel i consider you (you, yourself) being a part ofFeb 02 19:21
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - Did you read the EULA text?Feb 02 19:21
MinceRmitsuhiko: i don't care if they care about usFeb 02 19:22
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: it's not valid here, why should i doFeb 02 19:22
MinceRmitsuhiko: i know they want profits at the expense of everyone who doesn't work for themFeb 02 19:22
josethis is about protecting foss devs and usersFeb 02 19:22
MinceR(microsoft vs. the world)Feb 02 19:22
josefrom public enemy number oneFeb 02 19:22
joseclosed source monopolies and foss don't mixFeb 02 19:22
mitsuhikocompetition is goodFeb 02 19:23
mitsuhikoyou should start to accept thatFeb 02 19:23
MinceRmicrosoft doesn't agree with youFeb 02 19:23
josecompetition that is fair is wonderfulFeb 02 19:23
MinceRthey do everything they can to avoid having to competeFeb 02 19:23
mitsuhikomicrosoft is fairFeb 02 19:23
MinceRlolFeb 02 19:23
MinceRtell us more jokes like thatFeb 02 19:23
mitsuhikoso, what is not fair?Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhikothat they punched netscape out of the market?Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhikotheir browser suckedFeb 02 19:23
josehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-...Feb 02 19:23
MinceRfor example, what they did to Digital Research?Feb 02 19:23
mitsuhikothat they puntched apple in the face? apple had a closed architecture, no wonder they failedFeb 02 19:24
MinceRexplorer sucked and still sucks more than netscape ever didFeb 02 19:24
josea stranglehold is not good for those outsideFeb 02 19:24
MinceRapple are just another microsoftFeb 02 19:24
mitsuhikoyou should know that, you're encouraging people to use open sourceFeb 02 19:24
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - well you asked where it said that Microsoft could remote admin my computer, and turn thinkggs off. So I posted the text in question, now you say that it's not legal where you are. I supposed that this means that you don't care about those who live where it is legal?Feb 02 19:24
MinceRafaik they still own part of appleFeb 02 19:24
schestowitzMinceR: check thisFeb 02 19:24
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: point me to the eula and the part you're refering to where they allow themselves to log into your computerFeb 02 19:24
schestowitzSomeone posted it to USENET last nightFeb 02 19:24
schestowitzVery disturbingFeb 02 19:25
schestowitzMore scary than funnyFeb 02 19:25
schestowitzrom that monkey?Feb 02 19:25
schestowitz<mitsuhiko> who said i did?Feb 02 19:25
schestowitzOops.Feb 02 19:25
schestowitzhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?...Feb 02 19:25
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - here's the textFeb 02 19:25
mitsuhikowhere is the text?Feb 02 19:25
MinceRthen there's wordperfectFeb 02 19:25
MinceRand what they're still doing with OEMs regarding preinstalled OSesFeb 02 19:26
MinceRwe could keep listing these things all dayFeb 02 19:26
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schestowitzThey have hypnosisFeb 02 19:26
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josei don't read their eula's but if they don't explicitly say they won't and you don't explicitly specify that, they can.Feb 02 19:26
schestowitzPeople are intended to be stupefied.Feb 02 19:27
MinceRsounds like the Reality Distortion FieldFeb 02 19:27
schestowitzThen forget the sins of companies like MicrosoftFeb 02 19:27
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: where is the text?Feb 02 19:27
The_Mad_HatterRight here - 2.3 Internet-Based Services Components. The Software contains components that enable and facilitate the use of certain Internet-based services. You acknowledge and agree that Microsoft may automatically check the version of the Software and/or its components that you are utilizing and may provide upgrades or fixes to the Software that will be automatically downloaded to your Workstation ComputerFeb 02 19:27
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: that is not logging into the system, that's automatic updatesFeb 02 19:27
schestowitzThis was well realised many many years ago when companies were told explicitly to pretend to be nice to the cameras or else people would know the crimes they are up to.Feb 02 19:27
schestowitzIn IT, Microsoft is a class of its own (in crime)Feb 02 19:27
The_Mad_HatterYep, Microsoft has a massive Reality Distortion FieldFeb 02 19:27
schestowitzSince the very beginningFeb 02 19:27
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: do you have a car with a gps?Feb 02 19:27
joselike i said:  i don't read their eula's but if they don't explicitly say they won't and you don't explicitly specify that, they can.Feb 02 19:27
MinceRmitsuhiko: automatically downloading arbitrary code is essentially root accessFeb 02 19:28
mitsuhikoyou should read *THAT* eula :)Feb 02 19:28
schestowitzOther industries have their MS equivalents, but not all of themFeb 02 19:28
mitsuhikoMinceR: no. installing code is, which they do notFeb 02 19:28
mitsuhikoschestowitz: which industry does not have monopolies?Feb 02 19:28
josea gps device is not comparable to the OS that runs my business or private dealingsFeb 02 19:28
schestowitzDe Icaza is part of the MS hypnosisFeb 02 19:28
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/01/a...Feb 02 19:28
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2...Feb 02 19:28
MinceRmitsuhiko: "providing upgrades or fixes" to software you're running all the time isFeb 02 19:28
schestowitzBoth on hypnosisFeb 02 19:29
mitsuhikohypnosis...Feb 02 19:29
MinceRif part of that runs with admin rights, which it doesFeb 02 19:29
schestowitzYesFeb 02 19:29
mitsuhikothat's what i'm calling FUDFeb 02 19:29
schestowitzIllusionFeb 02 19:29
schestowitzLike Hollywood and WashingtonFeb 02 19:29
schestowitzWashington DC has the most gun crimeFeb 02 19:29
schestowitzBut also the most white-collar crime, AFAIKFeb 02 19:29
josewhat is the fud.. the miguel thing or that ms can do what they want with the software you are licensing?Feb 02 19:29
schestowitzBut the word crime is supposed to be associated with terms like blackFeb 02 19:29
schestowitzLike [black] crimeFeb 02 19:29
mitsuhikoyour weapon is confusion, because you don't make sense :)Feb 02 19:29
schestowitzOr welfare [mother]Feb 02 19:30
schestowitzAll intended to daemonise and divideFeb 02 19:30
mitsuhikojose: both is fudFeb 02 19:30
The_Mad_HatterWashington DC is pretty quiet. I've often wandered around after midnight thereFeb 02 19:30
schestowitzThis is how propaganda is establishedFeb 02 19:30
mitsuhikomicrosoft is bound to the lawFeb 02 19:30
josethe latter clearly isn't mitsuhikoFeb 02 19:30
schestowitz"pirates"Feb 02 19:30
mitsuhikojose: yes it isFeb 02 19:30
schestowitz"Mother's basement"Feb 02 19:30
MinceRmitsuhiko: why don't you tell them they're bound by law?Feb 02 19:30
josei don't like to make things personal, btw. in the past that has proved potentially uglyFeb 02 19:30
MinceRthey seem to have forgot thatFeb 02 19:30
mitsuhikoMinceR: they know that they areFeb 02 19:30
schestowitzThe_Mad_Hatter: I was there in 2006, don't be deceivedFeb 02 19:30
MinceRmitsuhiko: why don't they act like they know then?Feb 02 19:30
schestowitzThe crime happens behing close doors and no weapons usedFeb 02 19:31
josethey wrote the software mitsuhikoFeb 02 19:31
mitsuhikoMinceR: is that a serious question?Feb 02 19:31
mitsuhikojose: so?Feb 02 19:31
schestowitzJust favours or money swappedFeb 02 19:31
MinceRdoes the term "monopoly abuse" ring a bell?Feb 02 19:31
schestowitz“Did you know that there are more than 34,750 registered lobbyists in Washington, D.C., for just 435 representatives and 100 senators? That's 64 lobbyists for each congressperson.”Feb 02 19:31
joseso the code into it what they wantFeb 02 19:31
schestowitzIf only more people had realise how the US is runFeb 02 19:31
The_Mad_HatterRoy - I think that Washington is a lot less dangerous than it's made out to be. I've never had any trouble, and I'm usually there 2-3 times per year.Feb 02 19:32
schestowitzAnd how subsidies are used for taxation and reform is a code word for something else...Feb 02 19:32
schestowitzAnd then you have hired guns like this criminal:  http://www.bermanexposed.orFeb 02 19:32
The_Mad_HatterUnited States - Government for the corporations, by the corporations.Feb 02 19:32
josebtw, in last comment.. "the" -> "they"Feb 02 19:32
schestowitzNo worries about typosFeb 02 19:33
josewas worried the short fragment didn't make senseFeb 02 19:33
mitsuhikoMinceR: have your fun, poke at microsoft but let the mono guys do their stuffFeb 02 19:33
josehelp Microsoft accomplish it's goals??Feb 02 19:33
josesorry.Feb 02 19:33
MinceRmitsuhiko: the mono guys are developing a patent trap that serves microsoftFeb 02 19:33
schestowitzheh. That's kind of the host.. "Thank you for your reply and for choosing HostDime for all of your web hosting needs. I hope we can continue to provide you with excellent services and prices now and in the future. If you may ever have any future comments or questions, please do not hesitate to submit a ticket or post in our community forums."Feb 02 19:33
The_Mad_Hattermitsuhiko - why should we do that?Feb 02 19:34
mitsuhikoMinceR: we've already covered thatFeb 02 19:34
schestowitzI guess I should have pressed them on SundayFeb 02 19:34
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: because it's the only thing that would save linux on the desktopFeb 02 19:34
joselet's let bn do its thing as well and we can keep arguing back and forth for years to come.Feb 02 19:34
MinceRmitsuhiko: that's an overstatementFeb 02 19:34
mitsuhikoit's notFeb 02 19:34
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - Why would it save Linux on the desktop?Feb 02 19:34
MinceRwell, we've heard your micro$oft dogmaFeb 02 19:34
MinceR(one side of it anyway :> )Feb 02 19:34
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: because computers change and the oss community will have a hard time keeping upFeb 02 19:35
mitsuhikomost of the open source stuff copies existing technologies in a bad wayFeb 02 19:35
MinceRlolFeb 02 19:35
joseis mitsuhiko suggesting linux has no hope except through mono? that is funny.Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhikojose: on the desktop, yesFeb 02 19:35
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - Not really. Microsoft will have a hard time keeping up.Feb 02 19:35
MinceRmitsuhiko: why don't you research where m$ takes their "technology"?Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: how so?Feb 02 19:35
MinceRhere's a hint: they didn't invent it.Feb 02 19:35
joseyou are too much mitsuhiko.. you don't make sense, buy you are funnyFeb 02 19:35
mitsuhikoMinceR: they either buy or invent it, they do have microsoft researchFeb 02 19:35
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - Microsoft doesn't have 10 million programmers working on it.Feb 02 19:35
mitsuhikoand there work some of the cleverest guys out thereFeb 02 19:36
MinceRalso, if you believe that gnu/linux is just a copy of 1970s unix, you read too much m$ propaganda and lack critical thinking.Feb 02 19:36
MinceRmitsuhiko: we can see how clever it isFeb 02 19:36
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: ten million programmers running in different directionsFeb 02 19:36
MinceRit leads to products like vistaFeb 02 19:36
mitsuhikoMinceR: have you actually ever worked with vista?Feb 02 19:36
MinceRin fact i haveFeb 02 19:36
MinceRthankfully not muchFeb 02 19:36
mitsuhikoor is your only experience what ars technica is writingFeb 02 19:36
MinceReven the usb storage device handling sucks in vistaFeb 02 19:36
mitsuhikoso. what's the problem with vistaFeb 02 19:36
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - That's the strength of Free Software.Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: no. that's the problemFeb 02 19:37
mitsuhikonot a single component of the average linux desktop is working out fineFeb 02 19:37
MinceRmitsuhiko: those "different directions" are what result in innovationFeb 02 19:37
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - no, that's the strength. Ask a biologist about hybrid vigor.Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhikographics system does not do because of the gpl kernel and people hating proprietary driversFeb 02 19:37
MinceRnot what the marketers of the day make up at m$Feb 02 19:37
MinceRwhich basically amount to "let's make a new, shinier skin"Feb 02 19:37
mitsuhikothe network manager is a catastropheFeb 02 19:37
mitsuhikowe have half a dozen of core technologies in memory at the same time making it a memory hogFeb 02 19:38
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - agreed. The Windows network manager is a catasrophe.Feb 02 19:38
josemitsuhiko, what does your anger at some kernel or desktop issues have to do with monoFeb 02 19:38
mitsuhikothere is not a single interface users can useFeb 02 19:38
MinceRyou know what's a memory hog? windows.Feb 02 19:38
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: i was talking about the red hat oneFeb 02 19:38
mitsuhikoMinceR: haha, noFeb 02 19:38
MinceRhaha, yesFeb 02 19:38
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - and I'm talking about the Microsoft one. It's shit.Feb 02 19:38
josemitsuhiko, those that wouldn't know better might think from hearing you that linux is crap.Feb 02 19:38
mitsuhikoMinceR: if you can talk away problems with the network manager, you should try to do that in the launchpadFeb 02 19:39
joseof course, to balance, they'll also hear that windows and vista are crap as well. :-)Feb 02 19:39
mitsuhikomaybe it will convince people that linux isn't crap afterallFeb 02 19:39
MinceRmitsuhiko: networkmanager works for me :>Feb 02 19:39
mitsuhikoMinceR: one in a millionFeb 02 19:39
MinceRi'm sureFeb 02 19:39
mitsuhikoi suppose your acpi support works flawlessly as wellFeb 02 19:39
MinceRit's strange how all microsoft munchkins believe everybody else is just like themFeb 02 19:39
MinceRit doesFeb 02 19:40
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - you know I haven't had a single machine meltdown since I dumped Windows?Feb 02 19:40
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: you know that i never had a problem with either operating system?Feb 02 19:40
joseacpi is an antitrust issue for microsoft in waitingFeb 02 19:40
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - I used to have one every 3-4 months (we have a lot of computers here)Feb 02 19:40
mitsuhikoneither windows, neither dos, neither os x, neither linuxFeb 02 19:40
mitsuhikoin terms of "destroyed or stopped working"Feb 02 19:40
MinceRstrangeFeb 02 19:40
mitsuhikojose: oh yes, that will help the problems it hasFeb 02 19:41
MinceRa moment ago you were claiming linux is crapFeb 02 19:41
joseacpi and antitrust: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/31/hu...Feb 02 19:41
mitsuhikoMinceR: which is why i said destroyed or stopped workingFeb 02 19:41
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - Windows would die (computer not capable of booting) on a regular basis. LFeb 02 19:41
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: i wonder why only microsoft haters have that problemFeb 02 19:41
MinceRmitsuhiko: because that problem makes people hate microsoft?Feb 02 19:41
mitsuhikoprobably a conspiracyFeb 02 19:41
The_Mad_HatterLinux/BSD/Solaris is a hell of a lot more stable. I have machines here running BSD and Linux at present (decided Soalris was too much work)Feb 02 19:41
MinceRit isn't rocket science, you knowFeb 02 19:41
josemicrosoft haters...lolFeb 02 19:42
joseMonopolysoft hater..Feb 02 19:42
mitsuhikoMinceR: to a large extend because if you have the same problem on a windows box you're blaming microsoft whereas on a linux box you're ignoring itFeb 02 19:42
josehater.. beautiful wordFeb 02 19:42
MinceRmitsuhiko: which problem would that be?Feb 02 19:42
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - a lot of people have that problem. Windows is, and has always been unstable.Feb 02 19:42
mitsuhikoMinceR: network problems, broken updates (like x11 stopping working), buggy software etc.Feb 02 19:43
mitsuhikoThe_Mad_Hatter: windows only was unstable in the dos lineFeb 02 19:43
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - the same machine running Linux/BSD runs flawlessly.Feb 02 19:43
MinceRthe last time x11 stopped working was years agoFeb 02 19:43
mitsuhikocaused by bad 3rd party software and bad memory protectionFeb 02 19:43
mitsuhikothe nt line is totally different in terms of operating system designFeb 02 19:43
MinceRthe last time i've had a bsod in windows was when i attempted to install it :>Feb 02 19:43
mitsuhikothe only thing that can cause a bsod there is a kernel module (aka driver)Feb 02 19:43
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - Windows NT/2000/XP is marginally more stable than 95/98/ME, but not much.Feb 02 19:44
mitsuhikoMinceR: overclocked machine or broken ramFeb 02 19:44
MinceRmitsuhiko: wrongFeb 02 19:44
MinceRmitsuhiko: their partition table handling code in the installer sucksFeb 02 19:44
MinceRi've worked around itFeb 02 19:44
MinceRbut it's uglyFeb 02 19:44
jose a kernel module.. or bugsFeb 02 19:44
The_Mad_HatterMisuhiko - same machine with BSD/Linux runs fine, 24/7, for years.Feb 02 19:44
mitsuhikojose: user space applications can't cause a BSODFeb 02 19:44
joseof course, we have to take microsoft's word that there are no design flaws..Feb 02 19:45
MinceRassuming that there are no bugs in windowsFeb 02 19:45
josewords are cheapFeb 02 19:45
MinceRthat would be an interesting alternate realityFeb 02 19:45
josemitsuhiko, what's that about userspace apps?Feb 02 19:45
PeterKrauswords are weightless here on earth, because they are free...Feb 02 19:45
PeterKraus        -- Josh Homme, QoTSAFeb 02 19:45
MinceRwe know for a fact that there are design flaws in windowsFeb 02 19:45
mitsuhikojose: what do you mean?Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhikoMinceR: like?Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhikothe windows.h?Feb 02 19:45
The_Mad_HatterMitsuhiko - and of course costs running BSD/Linux are far less, since you don't have to have an Anti-Virus subscriptionFeb 02 19:45
josewhat did you last comment to me mean?Feb 02 19:45
mitsuhikojose: what i said?Feb 02 19:46
MinceRlike having part of the gui (no, not the display drivers) built into the kernelFeb 02 19:46
joseok, but not sure why you addressed it to me.Feb 02 19:46
josea bug in the OS could mean that a sneeze can lead to problemsFeb 02 19:46
joseso would userspace appsFeb 02 19:46
MinceRand like allowing processes to tell each other to run code for them (remote thread, iirc)Feb 02 19:46
mitsuhikojose: the same happens on linuxFeb 02 19:46
mitsuhikono code is bug freeFeb 02 19:46
joseagree pretty muchFeb 02 19:47
mitsuhikoMinceR: that is a clever design decision, not a flawFeb 02 19:47
MinceRso code with one bug is equivalent to the same code with a thousand bugs?Feb 02 19:47
mitsuhikoMinceR: i can attach to linux applications too an execute codeFeb 02 19:47
josethere is quite a value in having the world at large have access to the source code mitsuhikoFeb 02 19:47
MinceRmitsuhiko: malware writers agree with youFeb 02 19:47
MinceRit's a pretty clever trick they can hide their code withFeb 02 19:47
mitsuhikoMinceR: i was referring to the the gui partFeb 02 19:47
MinceRthen there's another huge design flaw they call "registry"Feb 02 19:48
MinceRmitsuhiko: that's not a clever trick eitherFeb 02 19:48
mitsuhikothe registry is legacy cruft but not a design flawFeb 02 19:48
mitsuhikoi don't know why everybody is having problems with the registryFeb 02 19:48
MinceRlegacy? what replaces it now?Feb 02 19:48
MinceRbecause it sucks?Feb 02 19:48
mitsuhikoMinceR: why does it suck?Feb 02 19:48
MinceRbecause it's unreliable and collects cruft that's difficult to impossible to remove?Feb 02 19:48
josemitsuhiko, with open source different people can work on different solutions.. the best moves up.. marketing and time or costs aren't a factor.. in generalFeb 02 19:49
mitsuhikoit's reliableFeb 02 19:49
MinceRbecause it's completely unnecessary as long as you have a proper filesystem?Feb 02 19:49
mitsuhikoand config files collect stuff toFeb 02 19:49
mitsuhikoand it's not impossible to remove, who told you that?Feb 02 19:49
MinceRconfig files are kept separate for the apps they apply toFeb 02 19:49
MinceRand are easily removed per app if necessaryFeb 02 19:49
MinceRalso, config files are easily fixed if there's a problem because they're textFeb 02 19:49
josems controls how the registry works.. the code managing the "registry" is closedFeb 02 19:49
MinceRmitsuhiko: cruft is impossible to removeFeb 02 19:49
MinceRit's a messFeb 02 19:50
mitsuhikojose: and why is that a problem? as long as it worksFeb 02 19:50
josewell, who can judge what "removes" even meansFeb 02 19:50
MinceRnot even microsoft knows what certain values mean in the registryFeb 02 19:50
mitsuhikoMinceR: i rather use the regedit than exim config file editingFeb 02 19:50
mitsuhikoas a nice exampleFeb 02 19:50
MinceR( http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F... )Feb 02 19:50
MinceRmitsuhiko: we already know you have a perverted mindFeb 02 19:50
MinceRalso, config files are kept separate per user where it makes senseFeb 02 19:51
mitsuhikoaccusing people doesn't strengthen your pointFeb 02 19:51
mitsuhikoMinceR: the registry is user separatedFeb 02 19:51
mitsuhikowhere it makes senseFeb 02 19:51
MinceRmitsuhiko: you still haven't told us what replaces the "legacy" registryFeb 02 19:51
mitsuhikoMinceR: %APPDATAFeb 02 19:51
MinceRexcept for the registry being a single binary blobFeb 02 19:51
mitsuhikowhy is it a problem that the registry is a binary file?Feb 02 19:52
mitsuhikoit's transaction safe and easy to useFeb 02 19:52
MinceRmitsuhiko: also, if it is so perfect, why was it abandoned?Feb 02 19:52
mitsuhikoand maintenance freeFeb 02 19:52
MinceRlol, he says "maintenance free"Feb 02 19:52
mitsuhikoMinceR: i suppose because people stuff more and more stuff into itFeb 02 19:53
MinceRtext files are transaction safe with the proper editorFeb 02 19:53
mitsuhikoMinceR: MUHAHAFeb 02 19:53
mitsuhikothat's a joke right?Feb 02 19:53
MinceRnopeFeb 02 19:53
MinceRwhat you're saying is a jokeFeb 02 19:53
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mitsuhikodo you know how hard it is to proper edit a file transaction safe on unix?Feb 02 19:53
MinceRit's easier than putting words in the proper order in english, apparently :>Feb 02 19:54
josea registry means what? between what Microsoft sells and what their source code implements there are gaps.. chasms evenFeb 02 19:54
mitsuhikoyes, there are file locks, but they are incredible hard to useFeb 02 19:54
PeterKrausmaintenance free registry?Feb 02 19:54
PeterKraussorry, exactly which planet windows you are talking about?Feb 02 19:54
MinceRwhich reality, not which planetFeb 02 19:55
PeterKrausi'm optimisticFeb 02 19:55
MinceRhe's out of this worldFeb 02 19:55
PeterKraus;)Feb 02 19:55
josemitsuhiko, i think MinceR has said something about if you use an interface made for that purposeFeb 02 19:55
mitsuhikoPeterKraus: have you ever maintained the registry?Feb 02 19:55
mitsuhikoin the post 9x daysFeb 02 19:55
joseno need for file locking coding from the userFeb 02 19:55
PeterKrauswell i am trying to get rid of the rubbish in the registry every saturday in my workFeb 02 19:56
PeterKrausfor a dozen of customersFeb 02 19:56
PeterKrausand most of the time it's just faster to charge them €£40 more and do a full system restoreFeb 02 19:56
mitsuhikoPeterKraus: once the stupid users adapt linux you have the same problem thereFeb 02 19:56
MinceRactually we won'tFeb 02 19:56
mitsuhikoyou should see what people are able to make out of their OS X systems...Feb 02 19:56
mitsuhikoright. nobody will adopt linuxFeb 02 19:56
MinceRosx isn't linuxFeb 02 19:56
MinceRosx is a piece of shitFeb 02 19:56
PeterKrausmitsuhiko: well yes, it depends on the userFeb 02 19:57
PeterKrausmy mother is running windows for two yearsFeb 02 19:57
mitsuhikoMinceR: okay. now you jumped the sharkFeb 02 19:57
MinceRit's a bastardized version of unix with useless layers of sugar coating on top :>Feb 02 19:57
PeterKrausquite flawlessly. Except of the fact, that she uses the computers three times a monthFeb 02 19:57
PeterKrausand it's still half as fast as it was when I left home.Feb 02 19:57
PeterKrausit just gets freaking cluttered all by itselfFeb 02 19:58
mitsuhikoMinceR: wrong and wrongFeb 02 19:58
mitsuhikoMinceR: OS X is probably the best designed operating system you can have todayFeb 02 19:58
MinceRlolFeb 02 19:58
MinceRmore jokes from mitsuhiko tonightFeb 02 19:58
PeterKrausMinceR: sugar? useless? you deserve to die!Feb 02 19:58
PeterKraus:PFeb 02 19:58
mitsuhikoMinceR: explainFeb 02 19:58
MinceRi'm sure taking a microkernel and gluing a bsd compatibility layer onto it _in kernelspace_ counts as great design in microsoftlandFeb 02 19:59
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MinceRand bundling separate copies of libraries with each appFeb 02 19:59
mitsuhikoyou clearly know how os x works...Feb 02 19:59
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MinceRafter all, who wants to share loaded libraries between multiple apps?Feb 02 19:59
MinceRof course, the main selling point is the world's least flexible mainstream gui out there :>Feb 02 20:00
mitsuhikoMinceR: os x does that for different versions of the libraryFeb 02 20:00
mitsuhikosomething you can't even have on linuxFeb 02 20:00
MinceRdifferent major or minor versions?Feb 02 20:00
joseyou can do whatever on linuxFeb 02 20:00
josedistros don't do everything you can doFeb 02 20:00
PeterKrausdifferent versions of library?Feb 02 20:01
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PeterKrauslast time i checked i had glib and glib2, e16 and e17, kde3 and kde4Feb 02 20:01
joseand yes not all the plumbing is there for everything to avoid hacksFeb 02 20:01
mitsuhikoPeterKraus: that are different libraries, not versionsFeb 02 20:01
MinceRthe former is a bad idea because it leads to api incompatibility; the latter is already done by linuxFeb 02 20:01
PeterKrausARE YOU BLIND?!?!Feb 02 20:01
MinceRhm, how is glib a different library from glib2?Feb 02 20:02
mitsuhikookay. i leave you alone know. there is no point in discussing with youFeb 02 20:02
joseit's a naming issueFeb 02 20:02
MinceRindeed, we know what we're talking about and you don'tFeb 02 20:02
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schestowitzwb, GoblinRFD Feb 02 20:04
GoblinRFDhiFeb 02 20:04
schestowitzRelink to the postFeb 02 20:04
schestowitzThe comments are back tooFeb 02 20:04
schestowitzI got mail from Asay moments agoFeb 02 20:04
schestowitzThey're happy with what we do in BNFeb 02 20:04
GoblinRFDyeah I saw thanks....Feb 02 20:04
GoblinRFDASAY?Feb 02 20:04
schestowitzMattFeb 02 20:04
MinceRobviously you don't expose enough about apple ;)Feb 02 20:05
GoblinRFDRidley is a new/old one on MS_Watch....Feb 02 20:05
GoblinRFDhes the one that confessed on behalf of andreFeb 02 20:05
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GoblinRFDjust how he knows so much and why he felt the need to confess for Andre I think you can draw your own inference from.Feb 02 20:06
joseall dirt known about ms helps anyone (unfortunately) doing business with them in negotiating terms (ie, it will take longer for them to get screwed)Feb 02 20:06
GoblinRFDIts good to see that MS is trying to find out who I amFeb 02 20:07
schestowitzApple users sometimes know Apple sucks ethicallyFeb 02 20:07
schestowitzLike you know that the Linus Foundation (kernel foundation I'd call them) has its defectsFeb 02 20:07
schestowitzBut I don't really attack them because I like their workFeb 02 20:07
GoblinRFDI had hidden many ID's for them to find, just so I could tell how deeply they were looking.  Theyve found the easy one....Feb 02 20:08
schestowitzMicrosoft is dumping 'free' software on the Philippines to suppress Free software adoption: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/02/p...Feb 02 20:10
schestowitzGoblinRFD: whose IDs?Feb 02 20:10
schestowitzTurfers?Feb 02 20:10
GoblinRFDah....Feb 02 20:10
amd-linuxgood eveningFeb 02 20:11
GoblinRFDno id's for me.....to see if MS or its shillers were trying to find out who I amFeb 02 20:11
GoblinRFDthey've already quoted one which they thought was me.Feb 02 20:11
amd-linuxjust to let you know that you now can get a netbook for 149 euros here in GermanyFeb 02 20:11
amd-linuxof course it comes with LinuxFeb 02 20:11
GoblinRFDThe fools actually believed that Ramasees Niblick was my real name.....Feb 02 20:11
amd-linuxjust because I read this story of the 8 USD Indian netbookFeb 02 20:12
schestowitzGoblinRFD: if you know their shills and nyms, add them to here: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/inde...Feb 02 20:12
GoblinRFDunfortunately for them, its actually the name of a mad robot called Gilbert who changed his name (Red Dwarf)Feb 02 20:12
schestowitzamd-linux: : I don't know. They'd have to snub patents and do it all in India/ChinaFeb 02 20:13
GoblinRFDIll need to speak with my contact first.....I have a great one coming up.Feb 02 20:13
schestowitzChina has a Linux-base (MIPS) $98 laptopFeb 02 20:13
MinceRhttp://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.net...Feb 02 20:13
schestowitzThe Intel-type thugs bully them.Feb 02 20:13
GoblinRFD...he's not only a shill, but he has numerous other business interests on the net.....Feb 02 20:13
amd-linuxbut is this cheap netbook really available?Feb 02 20:13
amd-linuxthis one here is for real and they are planing to sell it via amazon tooFeb 02 20:13
amd-linuxhttp://www.one.de/shop/product_info.php?...Feb 02 20:14
schestowitzMinceR: *LOL* thanls.Feb 02 20:14
MinceRnpFeb 02 20:14
GoblinRFDIve also got another shiller (which I need to be careful with) who I believe was caught out by Perverted Justice.com....Im confirming a few IP's before I name and shame though.Feb 02 20:14
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schestowitzamd-linux: some people called it a scam beforeFeb 02 20:14
amd-linuxok, the machine is not really goodFeb 02 20:15
amd-linuxthe hardwareFeb 02 20:15
amd-linuxbut it is question of time when we will see sub 100 Euro netbooksFeb 02 20:15
amd-linuxbreaking this barrier means MS has to come up with some really nice "incentives"Feb 02 20:16
GoblinRFDI think we will and shortly.....<100Feb 02 20:16
schestowitz"Server Load  3.47 (4 cpus) ø per second: 86.88"Feb 02 20:16
amd-linuxfor netbook producers in order to compete with linux machinesFeb 02 20:16
schestowitzamd-linux: no amd in these Linuxes?Feb 02 20:17
schestowitzMaybe ARMFeb 02 20:17
schestowitzOr Chinese MIPSFeb 02 20:17
amd-linuxno, all via....Feb 02 20:17
schestowitzLonghoon or whatever it's calledFeb 02 20:17
schestowitzOh, VIA too.Feb 02 20:17
amd-linuxamd and intel were quite focused on the desktop/notebook marketFeb 02 20:18
schestowitzServerFeb 02 20:19
amd-linuxroy u sure that all the page impressions are actually users?Feb 02 20:19
schestowitzThat's where they sell the premium processors ($$$). It's also why the main wars are over CPUs desktops don't need (quad and octas)Feb 02 20:20
amd-linuxI mean could be search engines, bots whatever?Feb 02 20:20
schestowitzamd-linux: yes, I see what they areFeb 02 20:20
schestowitzamd-linux: some are, on the dbFeb 02 20:20
amd-linuxI had many hits from blog spam botsFeb 02 20:21
schestowitzAbout 1 GB a day is consumed by SEsFeb 02 20:21
schestowitzamd-linux: I had those too in schestowitz.comFeb 02 20:21
amd-linuxone server in switzerland flooded me - obviously taken overFeb 02 20:21
amd-linuxok did not checkFeb 02 20:21
amd-linuxI just redirect these guys to a nonexistent machine in my LAN :-)Feb 02 20:22
amd-linuxguess your site got the successor of Groklaw more or lessFeb 02 20:22
GoblinRFDGotta go for a while........wife beckons......Feb 02 20:23
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amd-linuxhow was it possible that high traffic could kill off your db? just curiousFeb 02 20:24
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schestowitzI don't know for sureFeb 02 20:24
schestowitzThe host got back to me (actually, two admins did)Feb 02 20:24
schestowitzIt wasn't serious but it can recutFeb 02 20:24
schestowitzrecutFeb 02 20:25
schestowitz*recurFeb 02 20:25
schestowitzThere's nothing preventing this (pardon the typos)Feb 02 20:25
amd-linuxI moved to virtual servers and WP BackupFeb 02 20:25
amd-linuxwhen I fear an intrusion, I just replay a VM snapshotFeb 02 20:25
schestowitzGroklaw made a DB-friendly front page to reduce load. The FP in BN does like 100 DB queries per load.Feb 02 20:25
amd-linuxand import the backup from WPFeb 02 20:26
schestowitzamd-linux: personal or corporate site?Feb 02 20:26
schestowitzBN is not mission-criticalFeb 02 20:26
schestowitzIt's not a busiiness, just a missionFeb 02 20:26
amd-linuxpersonal ....Feb 02 20:26
schestowitzI'll make backups more often now... every few hours.Feb 02 20:27
amd-linuxheck, you produce an article every few hours - you need to backup more often :-)Feb 02 20:27
-Martinp23-[Global Notice] Hi folks! Earlier one of our leaf (client) servers had a few connection issues. This was due to latency issues on the sponsor's network. Fortunately, the sponsor now reports that the problems have been resolved and so everything is back to normal. We're very sorry for the inconvenience. Thanks for using freenode and have a nice day!Feb 02 20:28
schestowitzamarsh04: I made a backup 4 hours before the crashFeb 02 20:29
schestowitzThe server was rebootedFeb 02 20:29
amd-linuxI am not sure if WP / MySQL is a good combination for extremely high loads in generalFeb 02 20:29
schestowitzI don't knowFeb 02 20:29
amd-linuxon the other site, it is easy to maintainFeb 02 20:29
schestowitzI've done Nuke, phpwiki, wikimedia, bibref, gallery, etc.Feb 02 20:29
schestowitzI never did Drupal.Feb 02 20:30
schestowitzFor blogging I've always used Wordpress since the beginnign.Feb 02 20:30
amd-linuxI had installed Drupal on a uncommon port on a testserver - was hacked in 8 weeksFeb 02 20:30
schestowitzI'm among the early WordPress-HackersFeb 02 20:30
schestowitzcrackeed?Feb 02 20:30
amd-linuxDrupal is quite complex, with all the plugins you needFeb 02 20:30
amd-linuxcracked yesFeb 02 20:30
schestowitzYikesFeb 02 20:31
schestowitzLinuxFeb 02 20:31
schestowitz?Feb 02 20:31
amd-linuxwe discussed in in the Ubuntu forumsFeb 02 20:31
schestowitzUp to date?Feb 02 20:31
amd-linuxNot drupal, but I think it was an SQL injectionFeb 02 20:31
schestowitzAre you amdlinux from LT and GL?Feb 02 20:31
amd-linuxlow level accessFeb 02 20:31
amd-linuxSamhain detected it ...Feb 02 20:32
amd-linuxso I am now paranoid :-)Feb 02 20:32
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schestowitzphpbb got me last yearFeb 02 20:32
schestowitzIt had an uploder bugFeb 02 20:32
schestowitzMany sites got exploited this wayFeb 02 20:32
amd-linuxthere is only one amd-linux around :-) I think nobody else uses my nickFeb 02 20:32
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schestowitzThe trolls and my haters used it to spread libelFeb 02 20:33
schestowitzThey exaggerated the issue and made false testimonies under many nymsFeb 02 20:33
schestowitzWell, my box here is amd linuxFeb 02 20:33
amd-linuxwell you can not rule out that somebody uses a certain nickFeb 02 20:33
schestowitzamdrivaFeb 02 20:33
schestowitzI saw  'fake' PJsFeb 02 20:33
schestowitzSo it needs to be askedFeb 02 20:34
schestowitzI saw a fake Torvalds tooFeb 02 20:34
amd-linuxwhen you see my IP - from this network, that is most likely me :-)Feb 02 20:34
schestowitzI asked him about it (the real one) and he said it was fakeFeb 02 20:34
amd-linuxhaha fake LinusFeb 02 20:34
schestowitzReal Slim ShadyFeb 02 20:35
amd-linuxbut thats why I use nick - it is harder when somebody uses your real name...Feb 02 20:35
amd-linuxthere are strange guys on the net - I saw what some idiots try to spread about u on usentFeb 02 20:37
amd-linuxusenetFeb 02 20:37
amd-linuxit is a lesson from my FidoNet timesFeb 02 20:37
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josemay come back later..Feb 02 20:42
schestowitzOK, cool.Feb 02 20:42
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schestowitzAnother company dies: DRAM Prices Spike After Qimonda Bankruptcy < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158708/dr... >Feb 02 20:59
schestowitzTories choose sub-prime beard for maths post < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >Feb 02 21:08
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schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l... " Linux folks have gotten into the habit of buying devices with Intel graphics not because they are state of the art but because they have reliable open source drivers."Feb 02 21:33
schestowitzamd-linux: sorry I didn't respond beforeFeb 02 21:33
schestowitzI was focused on another vtFeb 02 21:34
amd-linuxno problem had to feed the cat anyway :-)Feb 02 21:36
amd-linuxforgot to mention that my machine was cracked short after I published a story why it makes sense to ban IE 6 from a blog to prevent blog spamFeb 02 21:37
amd-linuxstory got dugg, got spread and 2 weeks later the site was infested.... Ubuntu server, DrupalFeb 02 21:37
amd-linuxthat does mean anything, could be just accidentalFeb 02 21:38
schestowitzNovell says today it'll acquire more companiesFeb 02 21:38
amd-linuxbut I got paranoid... having your machine owned makes you feel like somebody went inside your homeFeb 02 21:38
schestowitzAin't I delighted.Feb 02 21:39
amd-linuxhow do they pay? with what?Feb 02 21:39
amd-linuxshares?Feb 02 21:39
schestowitzamd-linux: most WIndows user get cracked (multiple times even) and they don't even know about itFeb 02 21:39
schestowitz(unless some money vanishes from the bank and they try to balem the bank)Feb 02 21:39
amd-linuxthats why I switched all over to Ubuntu - whole family :-)Feb 02 21:40
schestowitzamd-linux: in the Land of the Fee, imaginary property can buy many thingsFeb 02 21:40
amd-linuxmaybe novell wants to buy a bank - they are cheap at the moment :-)Feb 02 21:40
schestowitzMicrosoft wasd going to land tens of billions to -kill google- buy yahoo!Feb 02 21:40
schestowitz*lendFeb 02 21:40
schestowitzamd-linux: banks are cheap because nobody wants them :-)Feb 02 21:41
amd-linuxwell, most retail banks here in europe are doing great (Santander, Barclyas)Feb 02 21:41
amd-linuxbut american and british investment bank just collapsed. Interesting times we live in....Feb 02 21:42
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joseI'm coming on for a short bit to add something to an earlier conversation (for the record)Feb 02 21:42
amd-linuxanyway, gotta go. Take of your server, yesterday was boring because of no news from BN :-)Feb 02 21:42
amd-linuxtake care I mean...Feb 02 21:42
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josebn is spreading drugs.. see how its users can't even go a single day without it.Feb 02 21:43
jose....lock-in data is a major problem/cost/security issue/etc for proprietary swFeb 02 21:44
josethe other data is also very importantFeb 02 21:44
josethe data that defines the state of the system (or how it was put there) is something that you get with fossFeb 02 21:44
josebut you don't get with closed tools (in a guaranteed fashion)..Feb 02 21:45
joseand much less if those tools only have gui interfacesFeb 02 21:45
schestowitzI think Compiz is eating away one of my cores.. something eats up resourcesFeb 02 21:45
schestowitzI might need to kick up KDEFeb 02 21:45
joseregardless of the interface though, what did the admin do to the system? what did the hr person do to it?Feb 02 21:45
schestowitzBarclys?Feb 02 21:45
joseyou can't tell when you use closed sourceFeb 02 21:45
schestowitzBarcleys?Feb 02 21:46
schestowitzThey got a portion of them bought by a Dubai prince.Feb 02 21:46
joseaudit is weak if you can't audit the auditing tools, ie.Feb 02 21:46
schestowitzBritish wealth in middle-eastern hands. Who woulda' thunk this 50 years ago?Feb 02 21:46
schestowitzjose: I heard this about GLFeb 02 21:47
schestowitzWhen PJ took 'heath break'Feb 02 21:47
jose"barclays" i think rightFeb 02 21:47
schestowitzI don't knowFeb 02 21:47
schestowitzMaybe Germany bank..Feb 02 21:47
joseshe took health break and what?Feb 02 21:48
schestowitzThe stock surge sharply after sinking to bottom low (worst ever)Feb 02 21:48
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozcli...Feb 02 21:48
schestowitzYes, Google corrects thatFeb 02 21:48
schestowitzjose: people joking about GL withdrawal symptoms at the time.Feb 02 21:49
josei have to leave soon.. what news of pj?Feb 02 21:49
schestowitzNot muchFeb 02 21:50
schestowitzMight not return to normalFeb 02 21:51
schestowitzBN inherits some GL readersFeb 02 21:51
joseso gl has been on freeze for some time now, huh?Feb 02 21:51
josei hardly visit out of blueFeb 02 21:51
joseand lt hasn't posted anything recentlyFeb 02 21:51
schestowitzNovell might be the next SCO, but different tacticsFeb 02 21:51
joseyou said they were taking a time out or foldingFeb 02 21:51
josethat's what appears to have been the caseFeb 02 21:52
schestowitzdid you see lt pageviews?Feb 02 21:52
schestowitzthe bn item got 11k pageviews thereFeb 02 21:52
josefor the last bn story.. yesFeb 02 21:52
schestowitzI never saw that beforeFeb 02 21:52
joseif you look at news months old, you can find many thousandFeb 02 21:52
schestowitzI saw 6k for one of our stories, but this is fantasticFeb 02 21:52
josebut on something recent, that is very uncommonFeb 02 21:52
schestowitzjose: because of botsFeb 02 21:52
josefor various reasons i'm sureFeb 02 21:53
schestowitzOld stories hardly do much. believe me, old LT pages maybe give a handful of visits per monthFeb 02 21:53
joseat one time, i kept opening up ff with a "thousand" tabs, many of which were to old lt articlesFeb 02 21:53
josebots/people downloading for posterity... etcFeb 02 21:53
schestowitzWe used to make full BN downloadFeb 02 21:54
schestowitzThe host blocked itFeb 02 21:54
schestowitzToo DB-intensiveFeb 02 21:54
schestowitzI see more of the propaganda in the news. Theme: "Microsoft is growing"Feb 02 22:02
schestowitzReason: recent layoffs .. must use damage control for the illusion that Microsoft will still be there in the future.Feb 02 22:02
jose[to finish with earlier "data" monolog]..Feb 02 22:03
josefoss doesn't have to leave a trail, but it's open so you can ascertain that.. generally, bunches of apps/servers leave extensive logs and configuration/automation is text based.. or at least in a format that is open (matched by the source).Feb 02 22:04
josewith proprie.. you can't know smoley with any real confidence.Feb 02 22:05
schestowitzWhat do you know about Linux at Kazakhstan?Feb 02 22:06
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to pull EDGI(ish) there.Feb 02 22:06
josenothingFeb 02 22:06
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclien...Feb 02 22:06
joseknown by meFeb 02 22:06
PeterKrausdid you guys see the recent Vista7 UAC messup?Feb 02 22:06
MinceRi've seen an article on /.Feb 02 22:07
schestowitzI'm surprised by how little I've seen and taken note of.. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie...Feb 02 22:07
PeterKrausyeahFeb 02 22:07
*PeterKraus is now known as PetoKrausFeb 02 22:07
schestowitzJust the recent departure of MS' leader there.Feb 02 22:07
schestowitzMS tries getting critics off its back: http://www.fiercecio.com/story/micro... (Microsoft lays off H-1B workers) LOADS of articles like thisFeb 02 22:08
schestowitzuac is now far from the word yak!Feb 02 22:09
PetoKrauswellFeb 02 22:10
PetoKrauswe know what's the truthFeb 02 22:10
schestowitzMicrosoft lobbied Obama transition team on high-skilled immigration weeks before announcing layoffs < http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/techtrack... >Feb 02 22:10
schestowitzI watched a video earlier about how corporations can run the government in this fashion through extortion, which is not news, just more repetition of the obvious.Feb 02 22:11
josewhat do you mean? because of foreign involvement?Feb 02 22:11
schestowitzBN: "ø per second: 89.82"Feb 02 22:14
schestowitzjose: no, local involvementFeb 02 22:14
joseroy, will let you know when i put something readable together.. but let me know if you have some sort of deadline that would be useful.Feb 02 22:14
schestowitzBut Microsoft is foreign to 'the states'.Feb 02 22:14
josewhat does that have to do with h1bFeb 02 22:14
schestowitzIt's more like an alien-- a species that harvests mere mortals in the US through 'computer tax' that they need never really have paidFeb 02 22:15
schestowitzjose: the lobby? All about visasFeb 02 22:15
schestowitzThey pull an Abramoff on ObamoffFeb 02 22:15
joseok never mind...Feb 02 22:15
josewill sign off...Feb 02 22:15
*jose has quit ("Leaving")Feb 02 22:17
schestowitzMicrosoft Stock Dips < http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/... >Feb 02 22:17
*Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-1e-2a-29-69-de.k112.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 02 22:18
*r0ver has quit (Connection timed out)Feb 02 22:18
schestowitzThe Times misses the point: It's the CRIME, not the cost. http://www.computingsa.co.za/arti...Feb 02 22:19
schestowitzBIllyPress hails the (robber) baron for funding pharma patents.. sheesh.. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...Feb 02 22:20
schestowitzHere's a smart site that gives people the publication as PDF: http://www.sdtimes.com/content/SDTim...Feb 02 22:25
schestowitzTaiwan boosts spending to lower joblessness < http://www.forbes.com/feeds/afx/2009/02/0... >Feb 02 22:27
schestowitz"Suddenly Jobless at Microsoft? Remember that Jobless in Seattle is now also available on Blogspot. " http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/jobl...Feb 02 22:28
schestowitzhttp://unemployedseattle.blogspot.com/Feb 02 22:28
*Casperin has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 02 22:41
*r0ver (n=r0ver@200-122-96-173.cab.prima.net.ar) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 02 22:41
twitterdid you see the guy with the blue monster tattoo got fired?Feb 02 22:42
schestowitzWindows Vista stuck on single digit enterprise adoption < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02... > been out for how long now? Over 2 yearsFeb 02 22:42
schestowitztwitter: yes, I saw that in 2 reportsFeb 02 22:42
schestowitzGizmono and Seattle P-IFeb 02 22:42
twitteradoption plans keep falling too but you can't really trust forrester.Feb 02 22:43
schestowitzSee this (my reply hasn't shown up yet): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.lin...Feb 02 22:43
schestowitzAnother goodie for Vista7 ammunitionLogFeb 02 22:43
schestowitzForrester is corruptFeb 02 22:44
schestowitzIt made money from Linux bashingFeb 02 22:44
schestowitzMicrosoft paid them for itFeb 02 22:44
trmanco:OFeb 02 22:44
trmancofound some good proof about statsFeb 02 22:44
trmancohttp://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/2008/12/03...Feb 02 22:44
schestowitzIf you want the link, I'll fetch itFeb 02 22:44
twitterahFeb 02 22:45
schestowitz:-)Feb 02 22:45
schestowitzI responded to the in COLA tooFeb 02 22:45
twittercool, gotta go againFeb 02 22:46
schestowitzI posted stats to COLAFeb 02 22:56
trmancoyepFeb 02 22:57
trmancojust saw this links thereFeb 02 22:57
schestowitzReptition countsFeb 02 23:02
schestowitzMicrosoft tries to creare a 'consensus' that "Linux<1%"Feb 02 23:02
schestowitzNot even _for desktop alone_ is this true. It's a big lie, much like 90% of the Americans love BushFeb 02 23:02
schestowitzamarsh04: see "Australia Faces Collapse as Climate Change Kicks in: Are the Southwest and California Next?" < http://www.alternet.org/water/124689/austral... >Feb 02 23:05
schestowitzIs This the Solution to Spam? < http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/... >Feb 02 23:08
schestowitzHeavy snow here today.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/...Feb 02 23:29
PetoKraushmmFeb 02 23:32
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/go/r...Feb 02 23:32
schestowitzIf only I remembered where I installed itFeb 02 23:32
PetoKrausit rains, england is drowning. It snows, england is frozenFeb 02 23:32
PetoKrauswe, in the north, are just laughingFeb 02 23:32
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Mon, 02 Feb 09)─————— —————————————————— —————─(/home/roy)────┐Feb 02 23:32
schestowitz└─(23:32 $)─> find | grep googleearth-biFeb 02 23:32
schestowitzOh.. it's in the KDE menuFeb 02 23:34
*kapipi (n=tor@0x3e42d97a.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 02 23:34
MinceRgnFeb 02 23:35
PetoKrausgn€²Feb 02 23:36
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 2 23:42:24 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellFeb 02 23:42
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Feb 02 23:42
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Feb 02 23:42
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelFeb 02 23:42
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz.Feb 02 23:42
*services. sets mode +e schestowitzFeb 02 23:42
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzFeb 02 23:42
schestowitzBlobs=poisonFeb 02 23:42
schestowitzGoogleearth=googlebomb. F*ed up kwin, I need to restart KDEFeb 02 23:43
*kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection)Feb 02 23:45
schestowitzhttp://ostatic.com/blog/how-lo... "Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier is a longtime FOSS advocate, and currently works for Novell as the community manager for openSUSE. Prior to joining Novell, Brockmeier worked as a technology journalist covering the open source beat for a number of publications, including Linux Magazine, Linux Weekly News, Linux.com, UnixReview.com, IBM developerWorks, and many others."Feb 02 23:59

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