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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 6th, 2009 - Part 3

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PetoKrausbut they use some proprietary retarded version of cisco vpnMar 06 18:22
Balrogew. :(Mar 06 18:22
schestowitztrmanco: yes, similar stuff thoughMar 06 18:22
Balrogwill it work with mobile embedded devices (android, iphone, etc)?Mar 06 18:22
PetoKrauswhich does not work on amd64Mar 06 18:22
Balrogif not, then it's useless to meMar 06 18:23
PetoKrausBalrog: i doubt itMar 06 18:23
BalrogI'd complain big-timeMar 06 18:23
PetoKrausthen, the desktops are running XP with this zenworks shiteMar 06 18:23
PetoKrausthey are decent PC's, pentium 4'sMar 06 18:23
PetoKrausBUT slowed down insanelyMar 06 18:23
Balrogthat's not good. They're running everything on the serverMar 06 18:23
Balrogxenapp works like X-forwarding, you could sayMar 06 18:24
PetoKrausthey are supposed to be running most of the critical apps on the serverMar 06 18:24
Balrogonly it's more messy and terribly doneMar 06 18:24
PetoKrausbut they aren'tMar 06 18:24
PetoKrausi meanMar 06 18:24
PetoKrausyou have to load your profile every time, it takes like 5 minutes from login to get into working stateMar 06 18:25
PetoKrausall the apps which could be running on remote server, like printer daemon or soMar 06 18:25
PetoKrausso it checks if you have enough credit to printMar 06 18:25
Balrogwindows is like that here with profiles. But if you keep the profile small, it will work rightMar 06 18:25
PetoKrausruns with a local clientMar 06 18:25
PetoKrausso it sends an appMar 06 18:25
PetoKraus*sends a docMar 06 18:25
Balroghere they use printers with local linux-based client-boxes that process ID, payment, andallMar 06 18:25
PetoKrausthen it has to wait in the queueMar 06 18:25
Balrogs/andall/and\ allMar 06 18:26
PetoKrausand then it figures out you don't have enough creditMar 06 18:26
PetoKrausNO notificationMar 06 18:26
PetoKrausit just does not printMar 06 18:26
Balrogcredit here is handled at the linux box attached to the printerMar 06 18:26
BalrogbblMar 06 18:26
PetoKrausthen there's this RETARDED system which the folks are using internallyMar 06 18:26
PetoKrauswe've got moodleMar 06 18:27
PetoKrauswhich is complete, perfectMar 06 18:27
PetoKrausevery department has it's own pageMar 06 18:27
PetoKrauswhich is still okayMar 06 18:27
PetoKrausthere is websurf, which is registry admin thing, which is still okayMar 06 18:27
schestowitzSatyam evaporates: http://www.pcworld.com/article/160819/s...Mar 06 18:28
PetoKrausbut then, half of the departments dont use these facilities and have something else and more retardedMar 06 18:28
PetoKrauswhich doesn't link to the other systemsMar 06 18:29
PetoKraustherefore there's dual/tripple enrolling for a courseMar 06 18:29
PetoKrausjust because they are lazy to sync itMar 06 18:29
PetoKrausand then there are these typical annoying things likeMar 06 18:29
schestowitzIDC is reporting on IDC figures using its media arm, IDG: http://www.pcworld.com/article/1608...Mar 06 18:30
PetoKraususing photo-quality inkjet printer for plotting 1st and 2nd year student's graphsMar 06 18:30
PetoKrauswhich could be done with equal, or even better, efficiency on a printer of 1/10th of the costMar 06 18:30
schestowitzThat's like Fox news reporting the news about MurdochMar 06 18:30
PetoKrausBUT, you have to use floppies to transfer data to the printer machineMar 06 18:30
PetoKrausbecause they are not networkedMar 06 18:30
PetoKrausand the USB's are expensiveMar 06 18:31
PetoKrausie no money left because they bought that badass printerMar 06 18:31
PetoKrausre. tar. ded.Mar 06 18:32
schestowitzGASPMar 06 18:32
schestowitzMicrosoft is almost beloe $15 nowMar 06 18:32
PetoKrausright, let's start workingMar 06 18:33
_Hicham_Roy : what is going on with Murdoch?Mar 06 18:35
schestowitzGoogle might soon be worth more than MSFTMar 06 18:37
schestowitz_Hicham_: he admits catastrophic effect of global warmingMar 06 18:38
schestowitzWall Street Beat: Nasdaq Closes in on New Recession Low < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160817/... > Dow @ less than half of all-time  highMar 06 18:39
schestowitzGoogle Share of China Search Market Inches up in 2008 < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160818/g... >Mar 06 18:39
_Hicham_the stock exchange is really going badMar 06 18:39
schestowitzNo wonder MSFT is scared to death of Linux, which runs GoogleMar 06 18:39
schestowitz_Hicham_: tax revolt loomingMar 06 18:40
_Hicham_M$ is gonna buy their OS to GoogleMar 06 18:40
schestowitzSell?Mar 06 18:43
balzacbuy from?Mar 06 18:44
MinceRit's not really selling if you're paying :>Mar 06 18:44
MinceRi think _Hicham_ means that m$ would pay google for google to use their swMar 06 18:44
MinceRi doubt m$ can afford that thoughMar 06 18:44
schestowitzImprobableMar 06 18:45
schestowitzit's Gates' 'baby';Mar 06 18:45
schestowitzUgly baby, but still... a childMar 06 18:45
schestowitzBadly designed from the get-go, copied in places from Real SystemsMar 06 18:45
MinceRthat baby is so ugly it was kept on a leashMar 06 18:45
balzacSomeone needs to tell Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer "It's okay to cry. It's okay to let go of the past."Mar 06 18:46
schestowitzThen added some anti-competitive Goo (not Google) like ActiveX and INTERN~1Mar 06 18:46
MinceRi'd gladly let go of gates and ballmerMar 06 18:46
schestowitziexplor~1.exeMar 06 18:46
MinceRlet them out of this world, so to speakMar 06 18:46
schestowitzHouse arrest?Mar 06 18:46
MinceRnot exactlyMar 06 18:47
balzacTheir era has come and gone.Mar 06 18:47
MinceRthey haven't paid for their sins thoughMar 06 18:47
balzacThey should join Second LifeMar 06 18:47
schestowitz"But this is going to end as all tragedies must, with tears. Steve Ballmer is getting taken for the biggest ride of his life, and one day he’s going to find himself dumped out of the limo by the side of the road wondering what happened." http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2007Mar 06 18:47
balzacheheMar 06 18:49
balzacBlankenhorn and I are on the same page - Microsoft tears.Mar 06 18:50
balzacMicrosoft tears: Crisp, sweet, satisfying.Mar 06 18:50
trmancoyo guys know that secunia crap news that came out today about FFMar 06 18:50
trmancodo*Mar 06 18:50
trmancoIt would be nice to ask if the counted the ActiveX vulns on IE... cause it really doesn't look like they did this, and IE without ActiveX is more that the crap it already isMar 06 18:51
trmancothey*Mar 06 18:51
schestowitzIE bugs can't be countedMar 06 18:51
trmancobrbMar 06 18:51
schestowitzMicrosoft hides themMar 06 18:51
trmancoschestowitz, yesMar 06 18:51
trmancothought about that tooMar 06 18:51
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/...Mar 06 18:52
MinceRmicrosoft tears aren't nearly as sweet as microsoft blood and microsoft screams of agony.Mar 06 18:55
MinceRthey obviously didn't count the RadioActiveX vulnerabilities on IE, iirc their number exceeds that of the listed IE bugsMar 06 18:55
schestowitzThey also count WIndows-only FF flawsMar 06 18:56
schestowitzMany flaws in FF apply only to WindowsMar 06 18:56
schestowitzI.e. they are inherited from IE (and bad underlying design)Mar 06 18:56
schestowitzAffero Gnu Public License (AGPLv3) for LingPipe 4.0? < http://lingpipe-blog.com/2009/03/04/a... >Mar 06 18:57
balzacthat sounds like some interesting softwareMar 06 18:58
balzacthough I'm more interested in LISP for that kind of programMar 06 18:58
schestowitzhttp://sev.prnewswire.com/in... It has just occurred to me that Microsoft is now polluting Apache with Microsoft employeesMar 06 18:58
balzacSecunia "drew their bow after the theif had gone"Mar 06 18:59
schestowitzThat's disastrous to Apache. They'll hopefully wake up before they get screwed or bound to WindowsMar 06 18:59
balzacSounds like big trouble for ApacheMar 06 18:59
schestowitzYeah..Mar 06 18:59
balzactoo bad they're not protected by the GNU GPLMar 06 18:59
schestowitzThey took the money, they don't careMar 06 18:59
schestowitzI wrote so much about itMar 06 18:59
schestowitzOthers like Perens did as well.Mar 06 18:59
balzacMicrosoft is probably showing them the greenMar 06 19:00
balzacWell, it's sort of politically-incorrect to call a piece of software "Apache" anyway. Do any Apaches work there?Mar 06 19:00
schestowitzNY Bill Proposes Tax Credit for Open Source Developers  http://developers.slashdot.org/art...Mar 06 19:00
PetoKrauspolitically incorrect fuck my arseMar 06 19:01
PetoKrausit's the most annoying thing everMar 06 19:01
balzacIf Microsoft drags Apache down the worm-hole, another server will take its placeMar 06 19:01
PetoKrausbeing overcorrect, overpolite, overzealous, overretardedMar 06 19:01
balzacPetoKraus: ask a real Apache.Mar 06 19:01
PetoKrausi don't care about real apachesMar 06 19:01
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balzacPetoKraus: it's not much different from protecting your trademark, except that it's your family name.Mar 06 19:02
balzactribal name, i meantMar 06 19:02
PetoKrausit is different quite a lotMar 06 19:02
PetoKrausask any lawyerMar 06 19:02
*balzac is now known as PetoKraus_Mar 06 19:02
schestowitzAnother Microsoft-polluted body (noted before): http://www.prweb.com/relea... The Open Source Business Foundation (OSFBMar 06 19:02
PetoKraus_blah blah blaMar 06 19:02
PetoKraus_blah blah blahMar 06 19:02
PetoKraus_look how it sucks to be misrepresented by another entity who has nothing to do with youMar 06 19:03
*PetoKraus_ is now known as balzacMar 06 19:03
PetoKrausrightMar 06 19:03
balzacthat's all it isMar 06 19:03
PetoKrausi'd say everyone in the IT world knows that APACHE has NOTHING to do with Apache tribeMar 06 19:03
balzacprotecting identity matters even to free culture advocatesMar 06 19:03
schestowitzA patchy serverMar 06 19:04
PetoKrausare you going to say that pidgin is violating the identity matters of pidgeons?Mar 06 19:04
balzacnoMar 06 19:04
schestowitzThat's why Iceweasel won't have its name tarnished by Secunia :-)Mar 06 19:04
PetoKrausor gnome of gnomes?Mar 06 19:04
balzacapaches are not pidgeonsMar 06 19:04
balzacgnomes are imaginaryMar 06 19:04
PetoKrausare you SURE?Mar 06 19:04
schestowitzmidgets are notMar 06 19:04
jose_Xwe're going to run out of names we can use, books we can write, things we can program.. cause everything interesting will be taken.Mar 06 19:05
PetoKrausnoMar 06 19:05
balzacapache is already taken - by that tribeMar 06 19:05
PetoKrausit is not takenMar 06 19:05
PetoKrausit's like koh i noorMar 06 19:05
PetoKrausit can't be takenMar 06 19:05
balzacwell, you can legally name a car the Jeep Comanche, but it might be annoying to a few people living on reservationsMar 06 19:05
PetoKrauswellMar 06 19:05
PetoKraussue me thenMar 06 19:06
jose_Xor give them a cut of the actionMar 06 19:06
balzacAll I'm saying is this - if you're going to name your car or software after a tribe, one hopes they're getting a piece of the actionMar 06 19:06
PetoKrauswhy?Mar 06 19:06
balzacjose_X: yeah, talk to the tribal elders.Mar 06 19:06
jose_Xbefore the lawsuit... settle pre-emptively out of respect maybeMar 06 19:06
schestowitz"ability to grow our Linux business," -- Wind River Reports Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2009 Results  < http://www.businesswire.com/portal... >Mar 06 19:06
PetoKrauswell i don't think anyone in romania or wherever it wasMar 06 19:06
balzacbecause they're leveraging the nameMar 06 19:06
PetoKrausasked before filming vinnetouMar 06 19:07
trmancohehehe -> http://identi.ca/notice/2643057Mar 06 19:07
balzacit was different when apache was just a collective, but it's getting more and more corporatizedMar 06 19:07
PetoKrausor even karl may writing itMar 06 19:07
PetoKrausyou are talking nonsenseMar 06 19:07
balzacWhat if I made software called "Jewish" or "Irish".Mar 06 19:07
balzacit would be oddMar 06 19:07
PetoKrausthat's ok by meMar 06 19:07
jose_X:-)Mar 06 19:07
PetoKrausi meanMar 06 19:07
PetoKrausit's a bloody nameMar 06 19:07
PetoKrausit does not belong to anyoneMar 06 19:08
balzacbut apache tribal identiy belongs to a smaller groupMar 06 19:08
PetoKrausit's not like a trademarkMar 06 19:08
PetoKrausthere's no family of ApachesMar 06 19:08
PetoKrausthere is no family called John JewishMar 06 19:08
schestowitzTa, trmanco Mar 06 19:08
jose_Xwe all need to find ways to share betterMar 06 19:08
trmancoTa?Mar 06 19:08
schestowitzThanksMar 06 19:08
balzacPetoKraus: people can fight to defend identity. Ultimately it's a question of respect.Mar 06 19:08
PetoKrausthey can only sue you for libel anywayMar 06 19:08
trmancoah, okMar 06 19:08
balzacFight for respect or you don't get it.Mar 06 19:08
PetoKrauswell sureMar 06 19:08
balzacthat's lifeMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausi'm not saying they should be quiet if they don't agreeMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausthat's what courts are forMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausi mean it's pretty logical, isn't itMar 06 19:09
schestowitzThere were some stories of celeb name jacking.. lots recently.Mar 06 19:09
PetoKraussomeone does something you don't likeMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausyou sue himMar 06 19:09
schestowitzThe SCO shill Dan Lyons stole Steve Job's name to hit his fansMar 06 19:09
balzacI'm just saying, maybe now that Apache is rolling in M$ money, they should kick some of that down to the Apache reservationsMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausjudge decides who is rightMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausrightMar 06 19:09
PetoKrausif i get famousMar 06 19:09
schestowitzAnd other singers have all sorts of FB pages or twitter accounts they want removedMar 06 19:10
PetoKrausshould i pay that actor Peter KrausMar 06 19:10
PetoKrausfor having his name?Mar 06 19:10
jose_Xoiaohm? is that the name of the user that was here earlier?Mar 06 19:10
jose_Xi forgetMar 06 19:10
balzacMaybe their software got popular because of the good name of ApachesMar 06 19:10
PetoKraushahaMar 06 19:10
PetoKrausthat's a good oneMar 06 19:10
balzacMaybe if they called the software "European Colonist" it wouldn't have been so popular.Mar 06 19:10
jose_XlolMar 06 19:10
balzac"white invader"Mar 06 19:11
balzacPetoKraus: my dad knows a woman whose last name is "White Man Killer"Mar 06 19:11
balzacbut she goes by "Man Killer" for shortMar 06 19:11
jose_Xor just MillerMar 06 19:11
balzacNative Americans still exist and some of them are still quite pissedMar 06 19:11
jose_XI prefer MillerMar 06 19:12
PetoKrausyou mean the beer?Mar 06 19:12
schestowitzThe Community Manager, Part 2: What Does it Take to Manage a Community? < http://www.socialcomputingmagazi... > What's this community manager nonsense that became a new meme?Mar 06 19:12
jose_XMiller is a legit nameMar 06 19:12
schestowitzIt's against instinctsMar 06 19:12
schestowitzNot anarchism either, but hey... what's that Zonket crapola all about?Mar 06 19:12
jose_Xi got back on to thank oiaohm?? for the earlier discussion and linksMar 06 19:13
schestowitzOpenSUSE is 'run' by some Novell lackey... if I were an opensuse volunteer that would drive me away.Mar 06 19:13
jose_Xthis tutorial page clarifies some of why xcb is being used instead of xlib http://xcb.freedesktop.org/tutorial/Mar 06 19:13
schestowitzjose_X: he's usually here in Austrlia's eveningsMar 06 19:14
PetoKrausit's good to be drying your clothes in your roomMar 06 19:14
PetoKrausit smells bloody niceMar 06 19:14
schestowitzBloody nice?Mar 06 19:14
balzacheheMar 06 19:14
schestowitzLike horrible fregrance.Mar 06 19:14
balzacLimey britMar 06 19:14
schestowitzOr Microsoft Works.Mar 06 19:14
balzacjkMar 06 19:14
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schestowitzSun loses Apache and Spring vote on latest Enterprise Java < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/... >Mar 06 19:15
PetoKraus:) i'm not a britMar 06 19:16
PetoKraus:DMar 06 19:16
schestowitzArticle from MS lacket..Mar 06 19:16
schestowitz*keyMar 06 19:16
balzacwhere are you from?Mar 06 19:16
PetoKrausI'm from slovakia, currently in GlasgowMar 06 19:16
balzacI'm American, but sometimes I say "bloody". I'm not Jamaican but sometimes I say "bumba-clot".Mar 06 19:16
balzacI'm going to make a software called slovak, just for youMar 06 19:17
balzacjkMar 06 19:17
schestowitz"Adam Jollans is Open Source Strategy Manager for IBM. " http://www.publictechnology.net/modules... Why are companies writing 'articles' now?Mar 06 19:17
schestowitzAcquia Appoints New CEO as Management Team Grows < http://acquia.com/about-us/newsroom/pr... >. Good for Drupal.Mar 06 19:19
schestowitz"There are days when I fear open source is becoming nothing but a buzzword, like e-commerce was a decade ago." http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3670 Yeah, that's because of lackeys like these... and that's why "open source" is a stupid termMar 06 19:20
balzacIf I were Dries, I might have taken the CEO title for myselfMar 06 19:20
schestowitzThanks to ESR and ORLY>.Mar 06 19:20
schestowitzbalzac: no, bad ideaMar 06 19:20
schestowitzWas the same in WordPress/AutomatticMar 06 19:20
schestowitzBetter to take someone with business skillMar 06 19:20
schestowitzFounder becomes CTO and relies on code guru0ismMar 06 19:21
balzacman, you just need a guy who is ready to pound his fist on the board room table and yellMar 06 19:21
balzacI can do thatMar 06 19:21
balzacMy last girlfriend was an executive assistant for a corporate lawyer in New YorkMar 06 19:21
balzacCEO ego and balls are more important than business degreesMar 06 19:22
schestowitzCarlina knows...Mar 06 19:22
balzacBut I have my own company (soon to be incorporated), of which I am the sole proprietor but eventually I'll be CEO and fly in a jet.Mar 06 19:23
balzacCarly Fiorini?Mar 06 19:23
schestowitzcarly fiorinaMar 06 19:23
schestowitzYou beat me to it... I'm looking for something.Mar 06 19:24
balzacgonads is the gender-neutral term. Women have gonads (in the biological jargon)Mar 06 19:24
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schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.p...Mar 06 19:24
schestowitz"As Reuters bluntly puts it, "The company's statement on Tuesday suggests it orchestrated at least some leaks." And apparently Keyworth was often their man to do it. Just maybe not that one time. The story keeps changing."Mar 06 19:25
schestowitz"For the four fiscal quarters ended July 31, 2006, HP revenue totaled $90.0 billion. "Mar 06 19:25
schestowitzEmployers slashed 651K jobs in FebruaryMar 06 19:26
schestowitzNew record?Mar 06 19:26
schestowitzMSFT dipped almost to $14.8Mar 06 19:26
balzacThere will be tears.Mar 06 19:27
balzacwailing and gnashing of teeth as wellMar 06 19:28
schestowitzVideo: http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/finan...Mar 06 19:28
schestowitzSexy Namir sportster to rewrite fuel economy rulebook? < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/... > A little insulting when sex is used to sell you a machine, no?Mar 06 19:29
balzacDepends on how sexy the car isMar 06 19:30
balzacThe new Bentley looks niceMar 06 19:30
schestowitzThey should buy one for each AmericanMar 06 19:31
schestowitzIssue some bailout money... print more moneyMar 06 19:31
schestowitzThat ought to solve the crisis... doing more of the same that got it fueled in the first placeMar 06 19:32
schestowitzAnd the chief editor of linux.com then moves into a trailer. The 'Land of opportunities', aye?Mar 06 19:32
balzacWe could have had 300,000 Bentleys instead of war crimes in IraqMar 06 19:33
balzac300,000,000Mar 06 19:33
balzacwow, I didn't realize that was him who moved into a trailer.Mar 06 19:33
schestowitzPetoKraus: I see that Beranger is unleashing anger at WP now: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpre...Mar 06 19:35
schestowitzIf not diss Linux, then find another FOSS victim..Mar 06 19:35
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PetoKrausi don't pay attention to these rantsMar 06 19:35
PetoKrausi only read the linux newsMar 06 19:35
schestowitzYeah... well, I don't read him anymoreMar 06 19:36
schestowitzBeranger Sucks! < http://www.junauza.com/2008/12/be... >Mar 06 19:36
schestowitzJun Auza has been quiet for a while..Mar 06 19:36
balzacRoy, sounded like he made a good argment about the auto-save and revisions recordsMar 06 19:37
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balzacwow, he's going to become a proprietary software enthusiast after all those years with GNU/Linux?Mar 06 19:38
balzacweirdMar 06 19:38
balzacWhen a technology gets mature and reasonably bug-free, the bunch of emo kids cry that it's obsolete, so it should be replaced with something new, rewritten from scratch, and that comes with more bugs than features in the first year. - BerangerMar 06 19:39
balzache doesn't like "emo kids"Mar 06 19:40
balzacfunny guyMar 06 19:40
MinceR"Red Hat doesn't believe in it, so why should I?" << lol failMar 06 19:41
schestowitzhttp://www.junauza.com/2009/03/important-...Mar 06 19:41
balzacfunny guyMar 06 19:43
schestowitzThe trouble with OpenBTS < http://lwn.net/Articles/320163/ >Mar 06 19:43
balzacBut why doesn't he promote GNU software?Mar 06 19:43
balzacwhy go to windows?Mar 06 19:43
balzacIf he wanted to be hardcore, he could buy an old clunky computer and run GNU/HurdMar 06 19:44
balzacHe's flapping the breeze, apparentlyMar 06 19:44
balzachis criteria for software selection are not user freedomsMar 06 19:44
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schestowitzHow Personal 'Credibility Busters' Hurt Your Career < http://blog.datamation.com/blo... >Mar 06 19:46
schestowitzBalrog: attention thing. He did the same with BSD.Mar 06 19:47
balzacBeranger seems like he may be an embittered refugee from a proprietary UnixMar 06 19:47
schestowitzJust gets boredMar 06 19:47
schestowitzIt's more than just UNIXMar 06 19:47
schestowitzIt's politics tooMar 06 19:47
balzacsounds like he needs a hobbyMar 06 19:48
schestowitzHe ought to realise that he does nothing to his political causes by using slopware from the Vole.Mar 06 19:48
schestowitzGood luck with Vista :-pMar 06 19:48
schestowitzBalrog: he got a new catMar 06 19:48
schestowitzSort of a hobbyMar 06 19:48
schestowitzI like his political rantsMar 06 19:48
schestowitzhe also hate patentsMar 06 19:48
schestowitzBut he's going over the limit sometimesMar 06 19:48
balzacHe's like "I didn't like the food at your restaurant. I'm going outside to eat out of a dumster. That'll teach you!"Mar 06 19:49
schestowitzReactOS Targets Windows 2003, Vista < http://osnews.com/story/2... > OSNews still peddling MSware under Thom's watchMar 06 19:49
balzacwell, it's good he hates patents, and plenty of his criticisms are valid, but he could do more coding if he deosn't like this or that distro.Mar 06 19:49
schestowitzHe files bug reportsMar 06 19:50
balzacwell that's good, but it's bad if he'll be filing bug reports for Vista from now onMar 06 19:50
schestowitzLinus sites don't cite him anymoreMar 06 19:50
schestowitzHe's outMar 06 19:50
schestowitzBalrog: hehe. For Vista?Mar 06 19:50
schestowitzBug reports are called statsMar 06 19:50
schestowitzIf report_# > 10,000 then payAttention();Mar 06 19:50
schestowitz"Send | Don't Send"Mar 06 19:51
balzacI share Berangers concern that the corporate GNU/Linux distros are not even trying to beat MicrosoftMar 06 19:51
schestowitzThey willMar 06 19:51
schestowitzMicrosoft shoots itself in the footMar 06 19:51
balzacwell, I'm impatientMar 06 19:51
schestowitzMany enterprises use SalesForce and cr*p like Google.Mar 06 19:51
schestowitzThey'll not have the same requirements later onMar 06 19:51
schestowitzRed Hat is still hawking the desktopMar 06 19:51
balzacThat's why I'm not an activist anymore. I can't stand collaborating with others.Mar 06 19:51
balzacToo many bone-heads.Mar 06 19:52
schestowitzNovell is said to have taken a step away so as to not anger the BeastMar 06 19:52
schestowitzIt ahrdly markets SLEDMar 06 19:52
schestowitzAlso, Hovo Sapient sacked 20% oft he SUSE devsMar 06 19:52
balzacyeah, and pocketed their salaries into his bonusMar 06 19:52
balzacBut that's good newsMar 06 19:53
_Hicham_SuSe devs are gonna be employed by redhatMar 06 19:53
schestowitzBalrog: good for him.Mar 06 19:53
balzacI don't want SuSe stuffMar 06 19:53
_Hicham_so, he is the looser at the endMar 06 19:53
schestowitz_Hicham_: I heard soMar 06 19:53
schestowitzAll of them?Mar 06 19:53
balzacuntil they get the monkey (Novell) off their backsMar 06 19:53
_Hicham_SuSe devs are all good contributorsMar 06 19:53
schestowitzRed hat is speaking to themMar 06 19:53
schestowitzIt also employed some Mandriva hackersMar 06 19:53
balzacRedhat should hire themMar 06 19:54
Balrogschestovitz: you didn't take care of that autocomplete thing yet :/Mar 06 19:54
schestowitz_Hicham_: they also know the desktop wellMar 06 19:54
Balrogshestowitz ***Mar 06 19:54
schestowitzKDE, GNOME, etc.Mar 06 19:54
Balrogschestowitz ***Mar 06 19:54
schestowitzSo they can help Fedora and desktop RHEL a lotMar 06 19:54
Balrogkeybd here sucksMar 06 19:54
_Hicham_Roy : for sureMar 06 19:54
balzacbut they should have to sing the free software song 20 times each, for working for NovellMar 06 19:54
jose_Xthe earlier discussion today on graphics and other desktop issues indicates the desktop will be noticeably better over the upcoming 1 to 2 yearsMar 06 19:54
schestowitzBalrog: ?Mar 06 19:54
balzacthey should have quit novell rather than wait to be laid offMar 06 19:54
Balrog14:59 <@schestowitz> Balrog: good for him.Mar 06 19:54
schestowitzOh, oops.Mar 06 19:54
schestowitzSorry about thatMar 06 19:54
Balrogand moreMar 06 19:54
balzacBalrog: Roy just can't stand my nickMar 06 19:55
Balrogit's ok; may confuse people reading logs thoughMar 06 19:55
schestowitzOops.Mar 06 19:55
schestowitzI didn't even noticeMar 06 19:55
Balrogbalr comes before balzMar 06 19:55
schestowitzSimilar nicks, 6 lettersMar 06 19:55
Balrogbut case should matterMar 06 19:55
schestowitz:-(Mar 06 19:55
schestowitzCase doesn't matter in xchatMar 06 19:55
schestowitzLet me checkMar 06 19:55
Balrogprobably not.Mar 06 19:55
balzacit matters in irssiMar 06 19:55
balzacirssi is the shetMar 06 19:56
BalrogI use irssi over sshMar 06 19:56
schestowitzJust checked, no options for thatMar 06 19:56
balzacirssi inside of screen over sshMar 06 19:56
schestowitzbalzac: rename yourself ;-)Mar 06 19:56
schestowitzToo similar to ballmerMar 06 19:57
balzacBut I'm registered with freenode!Mar 06 19:57
schestowitzI was jokingMar 06 19:57
_Hicham_what are you using by the way?Mar 06 19:57
BalrogI'm registered tooMar 06 19:57
balzacso was iMar 06 19:57
_Hicham_which chat client?Mar 06 19:57
Balrogme? irssi on gentooMar 06 19:57
_Hicham_and u roy?Mar 06 19:57
balzacirssi on Unoobtu for meMar 06 19:58
schestowitzxchat here.Mar 06 19:58
_Hicham_im using PidginMar 06 19:58
balzacwhat about your distro?Mar 06 19:58
schestowitzbalzac: you don't like your distroMar 06 19:58
_Hicham_me?Mar 06 19:58
balzacI like itMar 06 19:58
schestowitzAhMar 06 19:58
Balroganyone using Windows around here?? I'm wonderingMar 06 19:58
_Hicham_I am using UbuntuMar 06 19:58
schestowitzDin't say ubunutMar 06 19:59
BalrogI use gentooMar 06 19:59
balzacbut it does have a certain noob-friendly reputationMar 06 19:59
_Hicham_who is using Windows?Mar 06 19:59
balzacBalrog compiles his own shetMar 06 19:59
Balrog;)Mar 06 19:59
balzacunoobtuMar 06 19:59
Balrogexcept that nvidia driver :/Mar 06 19:59
Balrog(which doesn't even work with Xorg 1.5)Mar 06 19:59
balzacThe new distro from Cuba is gentoo-basedMar 06 19:59
_Hicham_I am installing debian lenny right now on my desktop machineMar 06 19:59
BalrogFedora 10 is greatMar 06 20:00
_Hicham_it is an old machineMar 06 20:00
balzacI like the idea of gentoo, but they had a bit of a melt-down recentlyMar 06 20:00
_Hicham_im downloading it alsoMar 06 20:00
Balrogbalzac: melt-down?Mar 06 20:00
_Hicham_balzac : the idea of gentoo is too hardMar 06 20:00
BalrogI use unstable in any caseMar 06 20:00
balzacI'm not skilled enough to deal with the time-penalty and difficulty-level of gentoo right nowMar 06 20:00
Balrogthe way it is implemented is too complicatedMar 06 20:00
Balrogbut what about the live CD?Mar 06 20:00
balzacbinary gentoo is a cop-outMar 06 20:00
_Hicham_does Gentoo have a live CD?Mar 06 20:00
Balrogno, you install a binary and then you can replace it with compiled stuffMar 06 20:01
_Hicham_wow,Mar 06 20:01
_Hicham_very complicated procedureMar 06 20:01
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/review... "HP’s Linux-based Mini 1000 variant keeps the line's great keyboard and well-balanced design, but its custom OS leaves you wanting more."Mar 06 20:01
_Hicham_why not have precompiled binaries?Mar 06 20:01
balzacthat's interestingMar 06 20:01
Balrogreplacing with self-compiled is simply 'emerge -evt system' twice, then 'emerge -evt world' twice (for compiler and library sanity)Mar 06 20:02
_Hicham_HP is trying to imitate ASUSMar 06 20:02
balzac_Hicham_: why not have someone chew your food before you eat it?Mar 06 20:02
BalrogI use the barebones disc anyway ... *much* harder but more flexibleMar 06 20:02
schestowitzSabayon?Mar 06 20:02
_Hicham_Balzac : precompiled binaries are not that badMar 06 20:02
schestowitzCuba uses Entropy (from Sabayon) BTWMar 06 20:03
balzac_Hicham_: depends on whether or not you want or need to compile it.Mar 06 20:03
_Hicham_Balzac : do u compile the whole distro?Mar 06 20:03
balzacnot me, i'm using ubuntuMar 06 20:03
BalrogBalrog you mean?Mar 06 20:04
BalrogYes, I doMar 06 20:04
Balrogexcept the nvidia driverMar 06 20:04
Balrog(nvidia-71.86.08)Mar 06 20:04
Balrogthat's a blobMar 06 20:04
balzacI'm not compiling anything except for that which I need and comes only as sourceMar 06 20:04
Balrogbut nv sucksMar 06 20:04
Balrogor maybe more realistically, nv *really* sucksMar 06 20:04
_Hicham_wowMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_that is new to meMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_i always heard that nv makes good stuffMar 06 20:05
Balrogthe foss driver (with obfuscated code)Mar 06 20:05
Balrognot nvidiaMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_compared to atiMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_ah, I seeMar 06 20:05
Balrogthe driver is calle 'xf86-video-nv'Mar 06 20:05
_Hicham_the binary seems to be goodMar 06 20:05
Balrogs/calle/calledMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_not like atiMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_i am using the free oneMar 06 20:05
Balrogyeah, the blob works great, but the legacy one isn't well updatedMar 06 20:05
_Hicham_coz the binary one won't provide 3D accelerationMar 06 20:06
_Hicham_we have to stick with Intel chipsetsMar 06 20:06
Balrogwith the free one, (a) a quad-core system feels like one from the 90's, and (b) stuff doesn't render right (like web pages in firefox)Mar 06 20:06
balzacnvidia makes great hardware, but they don't respect their customersMar 06 20:06
Balrog_Hicham_: you're using nvidia or ATI?Mar 06 20:06
Balrogthe nvidia 'free' driver does not support any 3dMar 06 20:07
_Hicham_Balrog : I am using ATIMar 06 20:07
Balrogproblem with Intel is that their tech is slower and less powerful than ATI or NividiaMar 06 20:07
Balrogand they're suing nvidia over rights to make chipsets :(Mar 06 20:07
_Hicham_ but their drivers are opensourceMar 06 20:08
balzacnvidia can't stand freedomMar 06 20:08
Balrogwe'll see how the noveau project goesMar 06 20:08
Balrognvidia for some reason doesn't want to reveal the hardware APIsMar 06 20:08
_Hicham_I am talking about Intel's DriversMar 06 20:08
Balrogyeah, Intel's are, that's trueMar 06 20:09
Balrogbut underpowered chipsMar 06 20:09
_Hicham_yeah, that is true alsoMar 06 20:09
_Hicham_I heard that the best chip on linux is NV with binary driverMar 06 20:09
Balrogyes, modern NV isMar 06 20:09
Balrogyou're rightMar 06 20:09
Balrogbut legacy ... you'll wait 2-4 weeks for them to fix issues with the latest kernelMar 06 20:10
Balrogand fixes for an updated xorg ... may take long (months)Mar 06 20:10
Balrogbut that's legacyMar 06 20:10
Balrog(GeForce 2 / 4 etc)Mar 06 20:10
schestowitzIntel should be avoided, where possibleMar 06 20:11
schestowitzThis means waiting for ARM when it comes to sub-notebooksMar 06 20:12
_Hicham_why Roy?Mar 06 20:12
Balrogproblem is, AMD's chips are terrible compared to IntelMar 06 20:12
Balrogand ARM is totally incompatible with x86 (instruction sets)Mar 06 20:12
_Hicham_Balrog : how terrible?Mar 06 20:12
Balrogthough I like itMar 06 20:12
Balrogthe recent top-end Phenom was rated slower than the top-end NehalemMar 06 20:13
Balrogand sse4 and allMar 06 20:13
BalrogI hear that the latest Nehalem chips speed up many SSE instructions by four or more timesMar 06 20:14
Balrog(4x faster)Mar 06 20:14
Balrogbut idk...Mar 06 20:15
schestowitz"More than 10% of the stocks in the S&amp;P 500 trade for less than $5. And with the market continuing to fall, more big-name firms could hit 'penny stock' status." http://money.cnn.com/2009/03...Mar 06 20:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: you don't know about Intel's many crimes yet?Mar 06 20:15
_Hicham_Roy : tell me plzMar 06 20:16
schestowitz_Hicham_: http://www.google.com/search?q...Mar 06 20:17
schestowitzGoogle CEO hints Google/Linux netbooks may be coming < http://blogs.computerworld.com/googl... >Mar 06 20:18
schestowitz"I hereby predict that we'll see the first netbooks with an official Google Linux desktop on them by the second half of this year. It will happen that quickly because Google won't want to give Microsoft a chance to regroup with Windows 7 from its Vista disaster."Mar 06 20:19
Balrogschestowitz: if not Intel, what do you recommend for x86-type processors???Mar 06 20:20
schestowitzMore on the same topic (Android on sub-notebooks): http://free.financialmail.co.za/09/...Mar 06 20:21
schestowitzBalrog: AMD not OK?Mar 06 20:22
Balrogslower and *vey* poor sse4 supportMar 06 20:22
Balrogs/vey/veryMar 06 20:22
schestowitzLinux-hostile twit: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/...Mar 06 20:25
schestowitzBalrog: there might be a price for not supporting crimeMar 06 20:25
Balrogdon't intel engineers use linux?Mar 06 20:25
schestowitzDoens't matterMar 06 20:27
schestowitzSome terrorists use Linux tooMar 06 20:27
schestowitzmath: Windows 7 + netbook = failure - GNU/Linux as remaining winner! < http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,... >Mar 06 20:28
Balroghttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-g...Mar 06 20:30
schestowitz"Windows XP is basically gone, so an OEM license is worth 20 USD for a manufacturer, no problem at all. Windows 7 for Netbooks is the same as all other Windows 7 variants - no lean, light, vlighted, 7lited or whatever. Just a Starter version like in Windows Vista which gives you the "power" to run maximum 3 applications at the same time."Mar 06 20:30
schestowitz"Where again is the advantage? Oh yes, now Windows 7 Starter crippled edition costs a bit more than 20 USD for OEM, I would say around 99 USD after discounts, tax not included or did you think MS stops earning money?"Mar 06 20:30
schestowitzThey can't make money out of Windows in some form factors anymoreMar 06 20:30
schestowitzSo now they start suing.Mar 06 20:31
schestowitzPatents, patents, software patentsMar 06 20:31
schestowitzLots of good news to Linux todayMar 06 20:33
schestowitzMicrosoft is meanwhile getting no publicity other than lawsuit stuff and sock going down to $14 region, despite buybacksMar 06 20:33
schestowitzHow to be Your Own Linux Tech Support < http://maketecheasier.com/be-your-o... >Mar 06 20:33
Balrogmostly negative publicity about the lawsuitsMar 06 20:34
schestowitzBig Lies/bogus stats: "Those cuts, which do not include farm workers, pushed the unemployment rate in the United States up to 8.1 per cent from 7.6 per cent in January." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... If you count the real unemployment rate, it's about 14%. They changed definition.Mar 06 20:35
schestowitzThe US government goes to great lengths to pretend nothing bad is happening.. maybe to prevent organisation of angry mobs. The Dow is meanwhile down to almost 6500 and people lose their houses.Mar 06 20:36
schestowitzIt's not healthy for them to encourage people to /still/ live in delusion.Mar 06 20:37
schestowitzMicrosoft Office is going promiscuous: http://software.silicon.com/app...Mar 06 20:44
trmancoschestowitz, what is the reason for you to start MBlogging?Mar 06 20:44
trmancowhat was*Mar 06 20:44
schestowitztrmanco: good questionMar 06 20:44
schestowitzLet me think..Mar 06 20:44
schestowitzOh, it started with E-mails I was exchnaging with Glyn MoodyMar 06 20:45
schestowitzThat was last nightMar 06 20:45
kentmawhat is MBlogging?Mar 06 20:45
trmancoso she convinced you, ha, that is nice :-PMar 06 20:46
schestowitzI'm almost done with Digg and PropellerMar 06 20:46
trmancokentma, micro bloggingMar 06 20:46
schestowitzShe?Mar 06 20:46
kentmais that sort of small blogging then?Mar 06 20:46
trmancooops, HeMar 06 20:46
schestowitzkentma: yes, one-linersMar 06 20:46
kentmaGlyn's a boys name, isn't it usually?Mar 06 20:46
kentmaah, okay.Mar 06 20:46
schestowitzHe got a lot of attention recentlyMar 06 20:46
schestowitzHe looks at the same topics as meMar 06 20:47
schestowitzSo I keep track of his output and vice versaMar 06 20:47
schestowitzSame with PJ, but she's been quietMar 06 20:47
schestowitzdoug sent me some material from her latest post... TomTom is becoming interesting. Mar 06 20:47
trmancokentma, well, I didn't think of that... he might be reading the logs, so all I have to do is apologize, I'm sorry!Mar 06 20:48
schestowitzBut for Microsoft, the kiss-kiss time with SUSE/Linux is overMar 06 20:48
schestowitzWhenever Microsoft says it plays nice with Linux, fuh-getaboutitMar 06 20:48
*schestowitz posts from identi.ca from KonqyMar 06 20:49
trmancohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wik... ah, okMar 06 20:49
kentmaMS have never had any intention of being nice, because "nice" doesn't have any place in monopoly.Mar 06 20:49
schestowitzU.,K. Government expands supports for ODF < http://opendocument.xml.org/news/uk-go... >. When the UK does it, the US may only be a matter of time, along with its colonies... Iraq for example. ;-)Mar 06 20:50
trmancooh, so he is the opendot writerMar 06 20:50
trmancoschestowitz, is he on identi.ca? or only twitter?Mar 06 20:51
kentmaIraq is on the verge of total collapse, I thinkMar 06 20:51
kentmaThat was such an amazingly bad idea.Mar 06 20:51
schestowitzopendoddotdotMar 06 20:51
kentmaIt's a shame that HMG is covering up cabinet minutes, but probably if they don't, Tony B will be in court.Mar 06 20:51
schestowitzkentma: Iraq was on the verge of being modernisedMar 06 20:52
schestowitzThat's what I read anyway. The US took it back into a third world country statusMar 06 20:52
schestowitzFor the mere price of 3 trillion dollars, borrowed mostly from ChinaMar 06 20:52
schestowitztrmanco: I try to push him off blogger (proprietary) and twitter (likewise)Mar 06 20:53
trmancoI just started following himMar 06 20:53
schestowitzI'm tired of some sites that seem like takeover targets, e.g. DiggMar 06 20:53
schestowitzDigg is also seriously f*ed because it's gamed pretty badly.Mar 06 20:54
schestowitztrmanco: in blogspot or twitter?Mar 06 20:54
schestowitzHis twitter stream is goodMar 06 20:54
trmancoboth would be goodMar 06 20:54
schestowitzHe got me (emotionally) involved in other areas like open accessMar 06 20:54
trmancowell, you can always export you posts off blogger, so it's no big dealMar 06 20:54
schestowitzYes, he told meMar 06 20:55
trmancoyour*Mar 06 20:55
schestowitzI suggested glynmoody.orgMar 06 20:55
schestowitzIt's hypocritical for him to blog under proprietary platformMar 06 20:55
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/200... "Square-Enix has sued four retailers for $600,000, not for creating a digital replica of a magic sword, but a real world costume replica of a sword from within the game Final Fantasy. "Mar 06 21:02
schestowitzMary Jo summarises the TomTom issue (as it appears at this stage) without provoking: "But it’s looking more and more like the open sourcers are right and TomTom is the canary in the Linux-patent coal mine." http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2241 (Chewing the FAT in the Microsoft vs. TomTom case)Mar 06 21:09
schestowitzLinux Foundation acting as though it's a company selling packaged Linux: http://events.linuxfoundation.o...Mar 06 21:19
schestowitzOops. I meant Linux(R)Mar 06 21:19
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Mar 06 21:24
schestowitzWindows locked out of the world of non-x86: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnis...Mar 06 21:27
Balrogwindows today is like mac os of 1998, only worseMar 06 21:28
Balrog(the software, that is)Mar 06 21:28
schestowitzGood analogyMar 06 21:28
Balrogtechnology-wiseMar 06 21:28
schestowitzBut it has more market shareMar 06 21:28
schestowitzAnd more third-party things stuck to itMar 06 21:29
schestowitzIncluding peripherals, not just s/wMar 06 21:29
schestowitzSo it'll take longer to erodeMar 06 21:29
BalrogMac OS 7.1 was 98% MC68K assembly code. When they moved to PPC, a lot of that code remained, emulatedMar 06 21:29
Balrogit used arcane memory management routines that caused all sorts of problems with more modern systemsMar 06 21:29
Balrogbasically it collapsed under its own weightMar 06 21:29
schestowitzI guess I've just  joined the microblogging world (more or less what we do in IRC for now): http://identi.ca/schestowitzMar 06 21:30
BalrogYes, Windows is worse ... it wouldn't be that easy for MS to do what Apple didMar 06 21:30
schestowitzBalrog: they put some Apple clothin on another OSMar 06 21:30
schestowitzPalm might do sometthing similarMar 06 21:30
Balrogditch their OS and replace it with something more modernMar 06 21:31
schestowitzBut it doesn't seem like Pre will run any Cobalt appsMar 06 21:31
schestowitzApropos: this in the news.. http://www.pcworld.com/article/160834/palm_i...Mar 06 21:31
BalrogNEXTSTEP was Jobs' work (in large part) to begin withMar 06 21:31
Balrogit's highly likely that he'd have done something similar had apple allowed himMar 06 21:31
schestowitzDid you see the old Jobs-netstep vids in YouTUbe?Mar 06 21:31
schestowitz*nextstepMar 06 21:32
Balrogabout marketing?Mar 06 21:32
schestowitzLet me find itMar 06 21:32
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?...Mar 06 21:32
BalrogI've tried NEXTSTEP 3.x and Openstep 4.xMar 06 21:33
Balrogthere was a 4.0 Beta (unreleased but you can find it if you look) that had a revamped GUIMar 06 21:33
Balroghttp://www.shawcomputing.net/resourc...Mar 06 21:34
Balrogschestowitz: look at itMar 06 21:34
Balrogand yes, the beta is floating online in obscure placesMar 06 21:35
Balroghaven't been able to get it to work yet though :(Mar 06 21:35
schestowitzDo Open Source Eyeballs Really Work? < http://www.computerworlduk.com/communi... >Mar 06 21:35
schestowitzJobs patented the dock's zoomingMar 06 21:35
schestowitzDidn't that exist in one form or another in nextstep?Mar 06 21:36
Balrognot in 3.x or openstep 4.xMar 06 21:36
schestowitzI mean, simple extensions to an existing basic idea don't count, do they?Mar 06 21:36
schestowitzThey just jeopardise awn and other such apps now.Mar 06 21:36
schestowitzBilski though puts that on the grillMar 06 21:36
Balrogxfce has a dock of sortsMar 06 21:36
*zer0c00l has quit ("Leaving")Mar 06 21:37
schestowitz.Yes, xfce is nice. I miss EnlightenmentMar 06 21:37
Balrogthey have the 3d-dock patent I believeMar 06 21:37
schestowitzI don't think I need much of the power of KDE anymore, just the appsMar 06 21:38
Balrogbut that's not the same as what's in OS X todayMar 06 21:38
schestowitzStill, it's an abstract ideaMar 06 21:38
schestowitzLike a room with depthMar 06 21:38
schestowitzPrior art: aquarium and fingersMar 06 21:38
Balrogwe will see what happens...Mar 06 21:39
Balrogseems like no other major window managers are using docks though.Mar 06 21:40
schestowitzDo Open Source Eyeballs Really Work? < http://chris123nt.com/2009/03/03/... >Mar 06 21:42
schestowitzBalrog: not out of the box?Mar 06 21:42
schestowitzWhat about KDE4's new menu/panel that a Portuguese artists makes?Mar 06 21:42
*schestowitz Can't recall the nameMar 06 21:42
BalrogI didn't see itMar 06 21:42
schestowitzLet me find itMar 06 21:43
trmancoPinheiroMar 06 21:43
trmancocan't remember his first nameMar 06 21:43
schestowitzOhMar 06 21:43
schestowitzRaptorMar 06 21:43
schestowitzhttp://raptor-menu.org/Mar 06 21:43
schestowitztrmanco: yesMar 06 21:43
Balrogis that distributed with KDE4?Mar 06 21:44
schestowitz"Ticketmaster Acquisition of Live Nation: An Antitrust Summary" More convergence = less choice :-(Mar 06 21:45
schestowitzBalrog: it ought to beMar 06 21:45
schestowitzThat was the plan anywayMar 06 21:45
schestowitzNovell has its own menuMar 06 21:45
Balroghm, we'll seeMar 06 21:45
schestowitzAnd then there's also LacelotMar 06 21:45
BalrogI don't see how such a patent (on zoom at least) would holdMar 06 21:46
schestowitzhttp://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/mainMar 06 21:46
Balrogthey can copyright parts of their implementation thoughMar 06 21:46
schestowitzVista7 cartoon: http://www.geekculture.com/joyofte...Mar 06 21:49
schestowitz"A decade and more ago, Microsoft executives argued in court that Internet Explorer couldn't be removed without breaking Windows. Now matters are changed with Windows 7. Surprised?" http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/wind...Mar 06 21:55
Balrogexcept that IE isn't removedMar 06 21:56
Balrogonly the user-access to it isMar 06 21:56
Balrogit's still there, hidden out of viewMar 06 21:56
schestowitzMicrosoft can hardly run its wares (e.g. Office) on subnotebooks,  so it tries pushing OEMs upwards: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/d...Mar 06 21:57
schestowitzSome sub-notebooks cost abour  AUD1000 alreadyMar 06 21:57
schestowitzWhat's the point?Mar 06 21:57
schestowitzThey totally miss the point of netbooks.Mar 06 21:57
trmancoog greatMar 06 21:57
trmancoa .NET crash at bwinMar 06 21:57
MinceRwell, before "netbooks", subnotebooks were expensiveMar 06 21:57
trmancothe poker server went downMar 06 21:57
MinceRnow the expensive subnotebooks are coming back too :)Mar 06 21:58
trmancoI probobly just lost $1300 of play money :|Mar 06 21:58
MinceRpoker? but i hardly even knew 'er!Mar 06 21:58
trmancololMar 06 21:58
schestowitztrmanco: virtual money?Mar 06 21:59
schestowitzTrade it for a swordMar 06 22:00
trmancoyesMar 06 22:00
trmancobut even the real money lads are complainingMar 06 22:00
schestowitzLosedowsMar 06 22:00
trmancono playable tables are onlineMar 06 22:00
trmancothis sucksMar 06 22:00
trmancoI'll get you a screenMar 06 22:00
MinceRyou had it comingMar 06 22:01
MinceRafter all, it's .netMar 06 22:01
schestowitzWTF? Why is Asay peddling Enderle??Mar 06 22:02
trmancoI've been waiting for thisMar 06 22:02
trmanconow is my moment :-PMar 06 22:02
schestowitzThis is annoying. Does he not know it's a SCOcrosoft shill?Mar 06 22:02
schestowitzHe's peddling the anti-FOSS tune.Mar 06 22:03
MinceRiirc he's a crApple shill, so there's nothing surprising about thatMar 06 22:03
MinceRand now that the crisis is crushing m$ and crApple, the pressure increasesMar 06 22:04
MinceRthey both FUD and sue left and rightMar 06 22:04
schestowitzSchools still go for kickbacks and perks: http://www.vnunet.com/computing/new...Mar 06 22:04
schestowitzHe still invades FOSS news feedsMar 06 22:05
schestowitzThe comments gave it to him good!Mar 06 22:05
schestowitzBN exposed the Enderle-Microsoft connection several times (with court documents as proof)Mar 06 22:05
trmanco.NET fail -> http://i44.tinypic.com/hs47ps.jpgMar 06 22:07
MinceRthey should change CASH GAMES to CRASH GAMES thenMar 06 22:08
trmancoI wonder how they paid money people are feelingMar 06 22:10
schestowitztrmanco: post to identi.ca maybeMar 06 22:10
trmancoschestowitz, done!Mar 06 22:12
BalrogAsay...?????Mar 06 22:13
trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/2646102Mar 06 22:14
MinceRBalrog: matt asay, crApple cultist masquerading as a proponent of FLOSSMar 06 22:14
Balrogas much as I read apple blogs, I haven't heard of him and don't think he's respected highlyMar 06 22:14
schestowitzBalrog: yes, "hybrid" fanMar 06 22:15
schestowitzThey sell outMar 06 22:15
trmancow3m -dump_head http://poker.bwin.comMar 06 22:15
trmancoReceived cookie: ASP.NET_SessionId=ermymty3a4dzii550ww34j55Mar 06 22:15
trmancoReceived cookie: userSettings=language=1&timezone=25&CID=620Mar 06 22:15
trmancoReceived cookie: ParentAppId=currentE=1466&parentE=38Mar 06 22:15
trmancoHTTP/1.1 200 OKMar 06 22:15
trmancoCache-Control: no-cacheMar 06 22:15
trmancoPragma: no-cacheMar 06 22:15
trmancoContent-Length: 70565Mar 06 22:15
schestowitzAnd the open source is polluted by lots of junkMar 06 22:15
trmancoContent-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8Mar 06 22:15
trmancoExpires: -1Mar 06 22:15
trmancoX-Powered-By: ASP.NETMar 06 22:15
trmancoX-AspNet-Version: 2.0.50727Mar 06 22:16
schestowitzAll kinds of 'open source' as PR scamMar 06 22:16
trmancoDate: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 22:22:44 GMTMar 06 22:16
trmancoConnection: closeMar 06 22:16
trmancoVary: Accept-Encoding, User-AgentMar 06 22:16
schestowitztrmanco: try blinMar 06 22:17
MinceRor bloseMar 06 22:17
trmancoblin,crash?Mar 06 22:18
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellMar 06 22:20
schestowitzblinuxMar 06 22:21
trmancomi.cashMar 06 22:21
schestowitzadded: @trmanco: http://identi.ca/notice/2646102 trmanco finds out why Windows is a gamble.Mar 06 22:22
trmancoLOOOLMar 06 22:23
schestowitzLet me experiment with the exclamation point thingieMar 06 22:23
trmancohahaMar 06 22:23
trmancoI like the briefMar 06 22:23
trmancolooks like a good headlineMar 06 22:23
*trmanco refreshes GwibberMar 06 22:24
*trmanco Twitter gave me a 404 Error, oh wellMar 06 22:24
schestowitzWheelock College senior speaks of philosophy of ‘ubuntu’ at Falmouth Library < http://www.wickedlocal.com/falmouth/news/x... >Mar 06 22:24
schestowitztrmanco: try to convert twitters to identi.caMar 06 22:24
schestowitzProblem is exporting readership and dataMar 06 22:25
trmancoschestowitz, when you want to forward a tweet just RT@person [copy paste] :-PMar 06 22:25
trmancolike emailMar 06 22:25
schestowitzThough they can announce moving to readersMar 06 22:25
schestowitzThe content stays where it wasMar 06 22:25
trmancoschestowitz, I do, I already converted a couple of peopleMar 06 22:25
schestowitzCool!!Mar 06 22:25
trmancoschestowitz, maybe that is planned for the future, I don't know, I haven't had time to look at itMar 06 22:26
schestowitzI haven't used Konqueror much since KDE 1.3. But it's pretty decent Mar 06 22:27
schestowitz*KDE 3.1Mar 06 22:27
trmancoschestowitz, http://identi.ca/notice/1848539Mar 06 22:27
trmancohe is one of them, the only one that I have proof thoughMar 06 22:28
schestowitzTightening purse strings will turn many businesses on to Open Source Software < http://www.printweek.com/premedia/news/887... >Mar 06 22:29
schestowitzI didn't know RMS was there.Mar 06 22:30
trmancoI don't know if it is really him, or if it is a fakeMar 06 22:30
*zer0c00l has quit ("Leaving")Mar 06 22:30
trmancoI really hope it's himMar 06 22:30
schestowitzNot active anyway. Bad photo.Mar 06 22:31
schestowitzThere are fake Linuses and RMSes in DiggMar 06 22:31
schestowitzI had 4 imposters in DiggMar 06 22:31
trmancoyeah, he is inactiveMar 06 22:31
schestowitzBut abusive ones (possibly Gary)Mar 06 22:31
trmancomaybe we should ping him on the emacs or some gNU listMar 06 22:31
trmancohttp://identi.ca/search/people...Mar 06 22:32
schestowitzZimbra lies about its numbers: Zimbra tops Google's Gmail with 40 million paid mailboxes < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_... >Mar 06 22:33
schestowitzThat's not a real number. They just sparingly throw boxes at businesses.Mar 06 22:34
schestowitzit's also not open sourceMar 06 22:34
trmanco40 mil paidMar 06 22:34
schestowitzJust some Zombra licence of something.Mar 06 22:34
trmancolool, sureMar 06 22:34
schestowitzYeah... like I can sell you 1 million hotdogs for $100.Mar 06 22:35
schestowitzYou won't use all 1 millionMar 06 22:35
schestowitzSame with hostingMar 06 22:35
schestowitzThey promose 1000000000000000000GB of transferMar 06 22:35
trmancoyeahMar 06 22:35
schestowitzWell, if only you could actually use thatMar 06 22:35
trmancono better yet is the magic word "unlimited"Mar 06 22:35
schestowitzOf course, when you reach 100GB they can suspend your account for "too much CPU"Mar 06 22:36
schestowitzSame with my hostMar 06 22:36
trmancounlimited space, unlimited bandwidthMar 06 22:36
trmancomy host is fineMar 06 22:36
schestowitzhttp://www.deviceguru.com/nightm...Mar 06 22:37
schestowitzSee commentMar 06 22:37
schestowitztrmanco: wait until your host goes under a lot of traffic and then doesn't live up to promisesMar 06 22:37
trmancoschestowitz, I know him personallyMar 06 22:38
schestowitzShoot first, ask questions later. They also treat getting many visitors as though it's some sort of abuseMar 06 22:38
trmancofor about 5 years, and he sponsors meMar 06 22:38
schestowitztrmanco: Rick?Mar 06 22:38
schestowitzOh, the hostMar 06 22:38
trmancono, my hostMar 06 22:38
schestowitzYeahMar 06 22:38
schestowitzI'm in good terms with my main hostMar 06 22:38
schestowitzFor all sites except BNMar 06 22:39
trmancoonly if they datacenter shuts him down, but that won't happenMar 06 22:39
trmancothe*Mar 06 22:39
schestowitzIt's easy to move these daysMar 06 22:39
trmancoyeahMar 06 22:39
schestowitzDone that in July 2007 when they upgraded the serverMar 06 22:39
trmanconice comment btwMar 06 22:39
schestowitzTook me many hours, but it worked all rightMar 06 22:39
trmancotime to buy a VPS? :-PMar 06 22:40
trmancoand put all your website in it, email everythingMar 06 22:40
trmancowebsites*Mar 06 22:40
schestowitzNo, that wouldn't work well.Mar 06 22:43
trmancowhy?Mar 06 22:43
trmancoconfusing?Mar 06 22:43
schestowitz"Richard Stallman (rms) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca."Mar 06 22:43
schestowitzI doubt it's him. Too fastMar 06 22:43
trmancoschestowitz, see your optionsMar 06 22:44
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/rms "Richard Stallman (rms) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca."Mar 06 22:44
trmancothere is an option to automatically sub who subs you :-PMar 06 22:44
trmancogood for bots :-PMar 06 22:44
schestowitz"Richard Stallman (rms) is now listening to your notices on Identi.ca."Mar 06 22:44
schestowitzOopsMar 06 22:44
trmancoS3 Linux Driver Outperforms Its Windows Twin In Nexuiz : http://tech.slashdot.org/article...Mar 06 22:44
schestowitz"Subscriptions 242"Mar 06 22:45
schestowitzSmells like the SEO scammers from DiggMar 06 22:45
schestowitz"Hi, my name is Juliet, I feel bored, be my friend"Mar 06 22:45
schestowitz"Submission: cute puppies! HOT girls. CLICKZ here"Mar 06 22:46
schestowitzbut I don't know.....Mar 06 22:46
trmancololMar 06 22:47
schestowitz*LOL* glyn says: "careful, it's addictive...."Mar 06 22:49
schestowitzHe hardly blogs anymoreMar 06 22:49
trmancomicro blog ou big blog?Mar 06 22:49
schestowitzmciroMar 06 22:49
schestowitzhe got 500 subs now, so he can't quitMar 06 22:50
trmanco:)Mar 06 22:50
*MinceR invents nanoblogging and picobloggingMar 06 22:50
MinceRnanoblogging: posts can be up to 1 word, max. 32 characters.Mar 06 22:50
MinceRpicoblogging: posts are exactly 1 character long.Mar 06 22:51
schestowitz!Mar 06 22:51
trmancoill invent pico blogging :-PMar 06 22:51
trmanco1 letter maxMar 06 22:51
schestowitz:-)Mar 06 22:51
schestowitz  ERROR: length exceedMar 06 22:51
trmancook maybe 3Mar 06 22:52
schestowitz8--)Mar 06 22:52
schestowitz  ERROR: length exceededMar 06 22:52
trmancoat least you can say "Hi!"Mar 06 22:52
trmancowithout quotes!!!Mar 06 22:52
schestowitz♥€²Mar 06 22:58
schestowitz☹Mar 06 22:58
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxworld.com.au/in... (Mozilla slates overdue Firefox 3.1 beta for March 10)Mar 06 22:59
balzacFF 3.1 is going to change thingsMar 06 23:04
balzacI can't wait for the combo of the HTML 5 <video> tag and svg, ajax, dhtml to replace FlashMar 06 23:04
schestowitzYes, it can be fancied up a lot when the toolkits for ogg turn upMar 06 23:05
balzacThen it's a matter of having an IDE that can build content for thatMar 06 23:05
schestowitzIn BN, about 70% use FirefoxMar 06 23:05
schestowitzSo I could just about throw the Flash away (not even as an option)Mar 06 23:05
balzacI'm just about to quit using the Flash player for anythingMar 06 23:06
schestowitzWith the video tag I display text for browsers that can't interpret it... suggesting an upgrade.Mar 06 23:06
balzaccoolMar 06 23:06
schestowitzBut it's not fair for browsers like Konqueror, which nonetheless have the ogg linkMar 06 23:06
balzacI despise the proprietary video codecsMar 06 23:06
schestowitzSo Linux OR Firefox users (on any platform) would have this working.. maybe Opera will join soon,.Mar 06 23:07
balzacAt first I was happy when Flash flv put the smack-down on quicktime, WMV, and real playerMar 06 23:07
balzacNow FF3.1 will put the smack-down on FlashMar 06 23:07
balzacscrew OperaMar 06 23:07
schestowitzThey might go libreMar 06 23:07
balzacuntil then...Mar 06 23:07
balzacThey should go GPLv3 if they doMar 06 23:08
schestowitzMint dev on KDE4: "It’s new, it looks fantastic and it’s our first ever KDE4 release." http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=655Mar 06 23:11
schestowitzI'm trying out some more of Konqueror todayMar 06 23:11
schestowitzhttp://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4285 "The FLOSS.pro service is based on the freely-available Laconica software which was originally developed because of Twitter instabilities and because many users wanted to use a free and open platform to do microblogging."Mar 06 23:12
schestowitz"Now it looks likely that Firefox 3.1 will be released Firefox 3.5 to reflect the significance of the changes that have been made to the browser."  http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4304Mar 06 23:13
PetoKrausright guysMar 06 23:19
PetoKraus800 words of this bloody report doneMar 06 23:19
PetoKrausi'm gonna have a sleep now. See you tomorrowMar 06 23:19
schestowitzHave a nice weekend.Mar 06 23:20
schestowitzRe: OLPC, "But after being set up, knocked up, and stood up, the project seems to have refocused on its original mission, a mission that has education, not corporate interests, at the center." http://www.opensource.org/node/398 So the publicity stunt is over for Microsoft?Mar 06 23:22
schestowitzUnisys loses another man. http://anthonygold.blogspot.com/2009/0... Serves them right for GIFMar 06 23:42
schestowitzMadrid has a conference on Free software coming: Divulgando tecnologías entorno al FLOSS (Free/Libre/OpenSource Software) http://www.whyfloss.com/es/confe...Mar 06 23:43
amarsh04serves Unisys right for "we have the way out"Mar 06 23:45
amarsh04pro-windows site hosted on bsdMar 06 23:45
amarsh04before that Unisys did some good symetric multi-processor Unix workMar 06 23:46
schestowitz"Twitter, with its one-way transmission of 140-character messages, may be useful for outreach, but it won't give us transparency. So, Congressmembers: Thanks for Twittering, but please don't forget about transparency." http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/fel...Mar 06 23:47
amarsh04Debian stripped out legal but non Debian Free Standards Group compliant firmware from test kernels without providing said firmware as a non-free package /-:Mar 06 23:48
schestowitzThere's other ugly stuff nowMar 06 23:48
amarsh04glxgears went from 189 fps to 18.9 fpsMar 06 23:48
amarsh04on my radeon 9200SEMar 06 23:48
schestowitzThe lobbyshills of Microsoft use the Microsoft-sponsored Czech  presidency to ram through software patents in the EUMar 06 23:48
schestowitzhttp://www.euractiv.com/en/innovation/...Mar 06 23:49
schestowitzamarsh04: do you game of use CAD?Mar 06 23:49
amarsh04I hope that fsfe are working hard on thatMar 06 23:49
schestowitzAttempt to redefine "computer": How many computers does the world need? <http://blogs.ft.com/techblog/2009/03/ho... >Mar 06 23:50
amarsh04no, schestowitz, just wanted a better graphics card with free drivers than the cirrus logic cl5446 (laguna)Mar 06 23:50
schestowitzyeah, let's have just 20 'PCs' and contact them using... errr... telepathy :-)Mar 06 23:50
amarsh04computer = takes input, does processing with some kind of internal storage, and produces outputMar 06 23:51
schestowitzLike humans with foodMar 06 23:53
schestowitzOr neural networksMar 06 23:53
schestowitz'Computers' are many things. But good headlines will say that the world needs only 20 'computers'. It's eye catching.Mar 06 23:54
amarsh04a human can be a "computer" - if you accept the original definition of the term computer being someone who carries out computationsMar 06 23:54
*kentma1 (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellMar 06 23:55
schestowitzHmm... not great.. Review: The Hauppauge HD-PVR < http://www.raiden.net/?cat... >Mar 06 23:55
amarsh04meaning digitally restricted?Mar 06 23:55
amarsh04step-daugher acquired a radeon-9600 equipped 2nd hand pc and it ran extremetuxracer well... this machine is too slow for 3d gamesMar 06 23:57
*MinceR invents femtoblogging -- posts are exactly 1 bit longMar 06 23:57
schestowitzBad history of "Linux": "Linux is a free and open source operating system developed by Linus Torvalds, arguably, the father of Linux, which he started to develop as a student at the University of Helsinki, Finland, around 1991. There he developed what is known as the Linux kernel, the core of the Linux operating system." http://themysticbird.com/2009/...Mar 06 23:57
MinceRand attoblogging: posts have no content, the fact and time of posting is the dataMar 06 23:57
MinceRand zeptoblogging is when not even the timestamp is recordedMar 06 23:57
schestowitz (needs correction)Mar 06 23:58
Balrogwhat a waste of time.Mar 06 23:58
MinceRand finally, yoctoblogging is when nothing is recorded, everyone just increments a single counter on the yoctoblogging site at willMar 06 23:58
schestowitzMinceR: empty db slugsMar 06 23:58
amarsh04most histories of linux include linus' post from a minix newsgroup and have to include enough explanation of GNU software, minix, unix, posix to show that linux wasn't a derivative of unix or minixMar 06 23:59

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