To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| iwmw | you just said indefinitely that "he and his partner" | Apr 03 17:04 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Yes, not married yet | Apr 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | He's straight, as am I | Apr 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | But here in the UK they say "partner" | Apr 03 17:05 |
| iwmw | ... makes no sense | Apr 03 17:05 |
| iwmw | saying "partner" | Apr 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Which I find odd because of matrimony terminology that changes | Apr 03 17:05 |
| _Hicham_ | parnter, :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D | Apr 03 17:05 |
| schestowitz | iwmw: well, that's what it's called in the UK | Apr 03 17:06 |
| _Hicham_ | the UK is weird | Apr 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Even for heterogeneous couples. | Apr 03 17:06 |
| iwmw | yeah, uk seems to go the wrong way | Apr 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | In the UK we have "Virgin Mobile" | Apr 03 17:06 |
| iwmw | wtf is dat? | Apr 03 17:06 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have gay marriage in the UK? | Apr 03 17:06 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I think so | Apr 03 17:06 |
| iwmw | wtf | Apr 03 17:06 |
| jose | schestowitz, i found it | Apr 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Actually, that is the case, but I don't know what welfare is offered | Apr 03 17:07 |
| jose | the analogy was "horses out of the barn" | Apr 03 17:07 |
| jose | >> The .NET framework contains the latest developer platform for the future, and it must be licensed like Windows. Subsets have gone about as far as they should go in the standards bodies, but we need a compact subset for phones and TVs. It was noted that we have to be careful because once the horses are out, they are out forever. At the right royalty, we can have discussions around technology beyond this. | Apr 03 17:07 |
| PetoKraus | it's not marriage | Apr 03 17:07 |
| PetoKraus | it's registered partnership | Apr 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | jose: when is it from? | Apr 03 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Comes? | Apr 03 17:07 |
| jose | 1999 | Apr 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | jose: is it the Alex thread? | Apr 03 17:08 |
| iwmw | .net... the latest dev platform for the future.. | Apr 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | With Amir? | Apr 03 17:08 |
| iwmw | it's a joke | Apr 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | Cause I think I have it as text | Apr 03 17:08 |
| schestowitz | About Linux haveing over 50% | Apr 03 17:08 |
| jose | i understand horses to mean patent grants.. but it can be trade secrets and everything else IP | Apr 03 17:08 |
| jose | http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/ms-and-floss/ | Apr 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | jose: I have the text | Apr 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | I see it in http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/... | Apr 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/11/mi... | Apr 03 17:09 |
| jose | that particular email had a lot of juicy bits | Apr 03 17:09 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Have you heard of Jay Freeman? | Apr 03 17:10 |
| schestowitz | BBC fined €£150k over Manuelgate < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009... > | Apr 03 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: no.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ste... | Apr 03 17:11 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: He's a genius!! | Apr 03 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-carn... (Carnegie Mellon tries to buck sliding trend of women studying computer science) | Apr 03 17:12 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: But I'm not talking about the one you posted. | Apr 03 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: this guy? http://www.saurik.com/id/1 | Apr 03 17:13 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I'm talking about the one who pwned the iPhone with his Cydia. | Apr 03 17:13 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Yup, that guy. ;) | Apr 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | That would be him, then. | Apr 03 17:13 |
| schestowitz | New Microsoft Office vulnerability already exploited: http://www.heise.de/english... | Apr 03 17:17 |
| schestowitz | I'm rarely a GNOME users these days, but 3.0 looks promising: http://www.heise.de/english/n... | Apr 03 17:18 |
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| _Hicham_ | great is they move to webkit | Apr 03 17:19 |
| schestowitz | rumours months ago said the same about mozila | Apr 03 17:20 |
| jose | schestowitz, thanks.. i'll be leaving soon. | Apr 03 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Bloomberg concurs with NYT's assessment about IBM buying Sun: http://www.denverpost.com/busin... | Apr 03 17:22 |
| schestowitz | What will this mean to OOo vs Symphony? | Apr 03 17:22 |
| jose | ooo is the better brand and product | Apr 03 17:22 |
| jose | it's updated | Apr 03 17:22 |
| jose | how about mysql? | Apr 03 17:23 |
| jose | ibm has a ton of dbs | Apr 03 17:23 |
| jose | now +1 | Apr 03 17:23 |
| schestowitz | They still miss the point about race to zero _for acquit ion_, not service, maintenance, etc... *sigh* http://ostatic.com/blog/does-open-source-... It's the same for book publishers and papers | Apr 03 17:24 |
| jose | if ibm doesn't invest similarly to sun, people will likely fork | Apr 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | jose: but OOo has already been grabed by MS | Apr 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | OO-XML | Apr 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Or go-OOXML | Apr 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | They can try to use Novell to play with *GPL and compete with the /real/ OOo | Apr 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Novell will be their slaves | Apr 03 17:25 |
| jose | that's just a fork.. to add MS's embracing into it | Apr 03 17:25 |
| jose | that can do that to any product out there .. will do that to any foss product that gains tractions | Apr 03 17:26 |
| jose | (drop last "s") | Apr 03 17:26 |
| *schestowitz on phone | Apr 03 17:26 | |
| schestowitz | IBM Sun acquisition to be announced today? < http://blog.internetnews.com/skerne... > | Apr 03 17:32 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: did you see the thing that happenen in France? http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?si... | Apr 03 17:34 |
| schestowitz | yes | Apr 03 17:37 |
| schestowitz | http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009... | Apr 03 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Stealing Commodities http://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv... | Apr 03 17:39 |
| schestowitz | "According to Google Analytics, 7.04 percent of the visitors to Cutts's own blog (during the last 30 days) used Chrome. " http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/03/... Does Google Analytics disclose global numbers for the servuce? If so, it would be comprehensive, but still JS-dependent (thus discriminating against Linux) | Apr 03 17:42 |
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| schestowitz | "Don't forget about Microsoft buying Novell and now owns the copyright to Unix and will use this to disband Linux." < http://news.cnet.com/8301-17... > | Apr 03 17:47 |
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| jose | schestowitz, http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastruc... quoted some interesting things. you may have already gone over that (100 times). I added comments. but there is one thing i wanted to bring up... | Apr 03 18:26 |
| jose | Microsoft may change the internal components and add to it, but it seems that they have remained with dotnet for a long time and will continue to invest in that general framework. | Apr 03 18:27 |
| jose | if so, this would coincide with their major patent push/investments | Apr 03 18:27 |
| jose | i don't think that is coincidence. | Apr 03 18:28 |
| jose | and to refresh mind, look at this comment for some ms quotes http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story... | Apr 03 18:28 |
| zer0c00l | too bad :( http://twitter.com/StudentPartners | Apr 03 18:28 |
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| schestowitz | *ping* MinceR http://www.realdeal.hu/20090403/minist... | Apr 03 18:29 |
| zer0c00l | their latest twitter update "Fun, fun, fun. How to distribute 560 Office 2007 Trial among students?" | Apr 03 18:29 |
| schestowitz | "Under a general agreement on public procurement procedures, the same amount will be allocated for the acquisition of Microsoft and Novell products as for open source software, said Ferenc Baja. The sum available is 12 billion forints each, he added." | Apr 03 18:29 |
| schestowitz | jose: MS adds dresses to the Trojan horses | Apr 03 18:30 |
| schestowitz | If people shout, they'll put more lipstick on the horse (Trojan) | Apr 03 18:30 |
| jose | carla's piece quotes someone talking about ms' continual changing of framework details.. or at least of coming up with new monikers on a regular basis | Apr 03 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Until people are kept stupid and swallow the poison pill | Apr 03 18:30 |
| schestowitz | MS won't bark until it's spread widely | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Like FAT | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Even in embedded | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Mono is not yet big in embedded | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | MS wants all mobile Linux to run Mono too | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Then, it'll turn the tables | Apr 03 18:31 |
| jose | it's not big in foss world | Apr 03 18:31 |
| Omar87 | lol! | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Carla doesn't like mono | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | But she;s LT editor | Apr 03 18:31 |
| schestowitz | So she has to seem impartial | Apr 03 18:31 |
| Omar87 | There's a funny story my friend has just told me.. | Apr 03 18:32 |
| schestowitz | zer0c00l: MS astroturfs twitter | Apr 03 18:32 |
| jose | i expected she wouldn't link to your april 1st story.. and she didn't.. probably a good call even though i thought it was funny | Apr 03 18:32 |
| schestowitz | See some recent posts in BN about it | Apr 03 18:32 |
| Omar87 | The .NET club at my previous university is arranging a meeting on Tuesday. | Apr 03 18:32 |
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| jose | what is the usual person's motivation to partake or start a dotnet club? | Apr 03 18:34 |
| Omar87 | When I read about that I got kind of disgusted, but my friend told that they actually him and the chairman of the club (who's also my friend) not only don't use Windows, they don't even use .NET itself! :D | Apr 03 18:34 |
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| Omar87 | but my friend told "me" that.. | Apr 03 18:35 |
| Omar87 | But they kept the name ".NET club" because that's only thing allowed in the university. | Apr 03 18:36 |
| schestowitz | New "Novell" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJBis6-HeqI | Apr 03 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | MS want to port everything to .NET | Apr 03 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 03 18:36 |
| schestowitz | .MS | Apr 03 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | there will .NET version of everyone | Apr 03 18:36 |
| schestowitz | On the NET | Apr 03 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz.NET | Apr 03 18:36 |
| Omar87 | They tried their best to start a different club, but their efforts all went in vein. | Apr 03 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Luckily, they fail | Apr 03 18:36 |
| schestowitz | So they pay Novell to shill for them | Apr 03 18:37 |
| Omar87 | lol | Apr 03 18:37 |
| schestowitz | The danger is that people don't realise that Novell is just anti-Java weapon | Apr 03 18:37 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: If not even anti-FOSS all together.. -_- | Apr 03 18:37 |
| schestowitz | FOSS the MS way | Apr 03 18:38 |
| schestowitz | .NET | Apr 03 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Silver Lie.. | Apr 03 18:38 |
| schestowitz | You get the pic | Apr 03 18:38 |
| Omar87 | Exactly. | Apr 03 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | Java was is gonna kill them | Apr 03 18:39 |
| schestowitz | IBM's Java | Apr 03 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why they spend all of that money to create .NET | Apr 03 18:39 |
| schestowitz | It'll have more resources | Apr 03 18:39 |
| schestowitz | +Eclipse (IBM) | Apr 03 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is poisoning Eclipse too, though | Apr 03 18:39 |
| Omar87 | And, MS's FOSS can be simply summed up two words "No FOSS". | Apr 03 18:39 |
| schestowitz | It's POSS | Apr 03 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | IBM is the official sponsor of Java, and not Sun | Apr 03 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Not "peace of shitty shit" | Apr 03 18:40 |
| schestowitz | *piece | Apr 03 18:40 |
| jose | java and msft | Apr 03 18:40 |
| schestowitz | But "Pseudo open source softare" | Apr 03 18:40 |
| jose | on yahoo delayed quotes.. they were each at 18.74 for a little while just now | Apr 03 18:40 |
| schestowitz | NOVL just been downgradede | Apr 03 18:41 |
| jose | not significant but kind of like a solar eclipse | Apr 03 18:41 |
| schestowitz | I'll post about it | Apr 03 18:41 |
| zer0c00l | Omar87, : In my school they started it as Microsoft .Net campus club, then now they are using innocent kids to spread virtually all software stolen by M$ | Apr 03 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | Eclipse vs Visual Studio | Apr 03 18:42 |
| jose | wonder if the prices crossed at some other point | Apr 03 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | can Eclipse beat Visual Studio? | Apr 03 18:42 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: pong | Apr 03 18:43 |
| zer0c00l | _Hicham_, why can't? | Apr 03 18:43 |
| Omar87 | zer0c00l: Yeah. | Apr 03 18:44 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know, just asking | Apr 03 18:44 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: so they've still locked up 12 billion for microsoft | Apr 03 18:44 |
| MinceR | i guess ballmer could only afford half the bribe this time | Apr 03 18:45 |
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| Omar87 | zer0c00l: Unfortunately, just the right strategy to hypnotize the minds of little kids, no wonder how we find this number of M$ dolls everywhere in the world.. | Apr 03 18:45 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: maybe they'll merge with Novell | Apr 03 18:47 |
| schestowitz | It's like they invest in the same companies... 2 being the same | Apr 03 18:47 |
| MinceR | indeed | Apr 03 18:47 |
| schestowitz | .NET | Apr 03 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Anyway it goes | Apr 03 18:47 |
| MinceR | but i thought it was 12 billion for m$+novell and 12 billion for FLOSS | Apr 03 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Ha | Apr 03 18:47 |
| MinceR | it would be funny if someone else bought novell | Apr 03 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Predictable | Apr 03 18:48 |
| schestowitz | ewwek survey sez so | Apr 03 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Most likely tech company not to survive 2009: Novell | Apr 03 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Would make my 'job' (hobby) easier | Apr 03 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Just tracking the name banner, e.g. "Microsoft" | Apr 03 18:48 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 03 18:50 |
| balzac | schestowitz: you know they'd get some money invested and keep a skeleton crew just to stay in business like SCO | Apr 03 18:54 |
| balzac | But it would be nice to see Novell completely marginalized and irrelevant like SCO | Apr 03 18:54 |
| balzac | You don't hear much from the Darl McBride anymore. | Apr 03 18:55 |
| schestowitz | balzac: yeah, something like that.. | Apr 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Just keep the MSFTers in palce | Apr 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | To spread the Mono | Apr 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Novell has already fired many of the Germans (SUSE coders) | Apr 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | balzac: McBribe[sic] is in the shadows now. GL hardly mentions him. | Apr 03 19:01 |
| balzac | Those devs can do penance by coding for the Hurd Kernel for 3 months each. | Apr 03 19:02 |
| balzac | jk | Apr 03 19:02 |
| _Hicham_ | they will be employed by redhat for sure | Apr 03 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Aye | Apr 03 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Likely.... | Apr 03 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Weaken Novell=strengthen Red Hat | Apr 03 19:05 |
| schestowitz | =Move Novell devs to Red hat | Apr 03 19:05 |
| schestowitz | [and away from the patent treason] | Apr 03 19:05 |
| balzac | yep | Apr 03 19:05 |
| schestowitz | That's the idea anyway. Let Novell rot with its 'interop' deal | Apr 03 19:06 |
| MinceR | how can we move RH away from patent treason? | Apr 03 19:06 |
| balzac | wash the "white hand of Sauron" off their foreheads | Apr 03 19:06 |
| schestowitz | Linspire has been dead for almost a year now | Apr 03 19:06 |
| MinceR | especially after they pushed sw patents in the EU? | Apr 03 19:06 |
| schestowitz | We can mark the anniversary in 2 months and 3 weeks | Apr 03 19:06 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the Linspire storm? | Apr 03 19:06 |
| schestowitz | Check out the latest from Linspire: http://kevincarmony.blogspot.com/2... Meow! | Apr 03 19:07 |
| balzac | MinceR: civil disobedience | Apr 03 19:07 |
| balzac | infringe on their patents in a way which breaks their indemnification agreement | Apr 03 19:07 |
| balzac | make a proprietary infringement to step outside RH's indemnification protection zone | Apr 03 19:08 |
| balzac | make any kind of infringement to offend MS/Novell | Apr 03 19:08 |
| MinceR | i don't quite understand | Apr 03 19:08 |
| balzac | and make it clear that you're doing it on purpose | Apr 03 19:08 |
| balzac | infringe on software patent claims deliberately in whatever way is required to call the bluff of their legal threat. | Apr 03 19:09 |
| jose | Too bad this posting http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... has 5 out of 10 stars. [i'm pretending to be on the gullible side] | Apr 03 19:17 |
| MinceR | wait... RH has an indemnification agreement with somebody? | Apr 03 19:20 |
| balzac | MinceR: their agreement protects everyone who doesn't use GPLv3 | Apr 03 19:20 |
| balzac | who does, i mean | Apr 03 19:21 |
| balzac | ok don't know exactly | Apr 03 19:21 |
| MinceR | that sounds pretty evil | Apr 03 19:21 |
| balzac | but software patents are crap and first civil disobedience should be used to prove the ridiculousness of the proprietary covenant | Apr 03 19:21 |
| MinceR | but it does fall in line with RH's sw patent mania | Apr 03 19:21 |
| balzac | and then civil disobedience should be used to prove the ridiculousness of the FOSS patent collective covenants as well | Apr 03 19:22 |
| balzac | no software patents at all | Apr 03 19:22 |
| jose | anything new and interesting about conficker? | Apr 03 19:23 |
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| schestowitz | jose: millions of PCs are infected | Apr 03 19:33 |
| jose | i'm curious about the new instructions the bots were going to be receiving | Apr 03 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's Microsoft experiment with supercomputing | Apr 03 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Got to do some testing before taking on Linux on BlueGene, no? | Apr 03 19:43 |
| jose | Instruction #1: popup message "did you hear? Windows just took over the #1 spot in supercomputing; it also has a lower TCO; click here for the full scoop" | Apr 03 19:50 |
| jose | if they tell enough people the scoop enough times, they will take the supercomputing title. that's their plan. | Apr 03 19:51 |
| jose | plan b is to buy out top500 website.. or whoever owns the top spot. | Apr 03 19:52 |
| jose | plan c is to sue all linux-using entrants. | Apr 03 19:54 |
| schestowitz | jose: I do a post that quotes you | Apr 03 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Can you proofread with me? | Apr 03 19:57 |
| jose | what is the link | Apr 03 19:57 |
| schestowitz | jose: read http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/03/m... | Apr 03 20:03 |
| jose | let me say this.. if certain people are awake, you will get some criticism that "sun supports ooxml" etc. | Apr 03 20:06 |
| jose | "Microsoft has already used Novell to harm ODF, which Sun and IBM promote." | Apr 03 20:07 |
| jose | I was going to say that Dan might bring up again proof on patents usable against mono... | Apr 03 20:08 |
| jose | but some of those comments certain suggest Microsoft has their plans. | Apr 03 20:09 |
| jose | "Another is the patent trap which Mono has become, as Jose explained in this LinuxToday comment that cites private E-mails from Microsoft." | Apr 03 20:09 |
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| tacone | ls -l | Apr 03 20:09 |
| schestowitz | C:\> | Apr 03 20:09 |
| jose | that Lt reply is about microsoft stating the key value in patents/ip to protect against clones | Apr 03 20:09 |
| tacone | schestowitz: lol | Apr 03 20:10 |
| jose | so that might be a decent rebuttal | Apr 03 20:10 |
| schestowitz | jose: is that a typo corrected? | Apr 03 20:10 |
| jose | nope | Apr 03 20:10 |
| schestowitz | \Because I've been lenient recently and proofread poorly. | Apr 03 20:11 |
| jose | i couldn't help but anticipate the reader comment discussion | Apr 03 20:11 |
| schestowitz | All the posts about mono get flooded by mono fans | Apr 03 20:11 |
| schestowitz | I can't help b but wondering if they use communication means to send some opposition so these posts. It used to be like this with GNOME. | Apr 03 20:12 |
| jose | sorry schestowitz, but no typos or similar errors caught my attention. | Apr 03 20:13 |
| schestowitz | That's good, I'm surprised | Apr 03 20:13 |
| jose | some things might not be correct grammatically but i'm not one to know for sure | Apr 03 20:14 |
| schestowitz | jose: site traffic more than doubled and I suspect that TomTom woke some people up | Apr 03 20:14 |
| schestowitz | The whole "ignore stupid patents" attitude it no more | Apr 03 20:14 |
| jose | yeah, you mean microsoft actually sued!!!! | Apr 03 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Now is the time to fight them, not to ignore them | Apr 03 20:15 |
| jose | and for garbage like fat silliness | Apr 03 20:15 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Microsoft showed its new business mode | Apr 03 20:15 |
| jose | that was a great move on their part | Apr 03 20:15 |
| schestowitz | As applied to FOSS, not just Xerox, Apple, IBM... | Apr 03 20:15 |
| schestowitz | jose: it was | Apr 03 20:15 |
| schestowitz | See Groklaw | Apr 03 20:15 |
| schestowitz | No "New Microsoft" | Apr 03 20:15 |
| jose | \/sarcasm | Apr 03 20:16 |
| schestowitz | FOSS developers are watching | Apr 03 20:16 |
| schestowitz | FAT!=Linux | Apr 03 20:16 |
| schestowitz | FAT = Microsoft interchange | Apr 03 20:16 |
| schestowitz | FAT = 'API' | Apr 03 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Without APIs, you can't safely develop with/for Windows | Apr 03 20:16 |
| schestowitz | As long as you're small, you might get away with it | Apr 03 20:17 |
| jose | ms has simple choices: drop their lawsuit aggression and any advantage they think comes with it.. or show their teeth and deal with those consequences. | Apr 03 20:17 |
| schestowitz | As long as you're small enough to sue without legal challenge (like TomTom), you'll be forced to pay | Apr 03 20:17 |
| schestowitz | People must stop enriching the Windows ecosystem | Apr 03 20:17 |
| schestowitz | jose: the deal id know | Apr 03 20:17 |
| schestowitz | See Groklaw | Apr 03 20:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph... | Apr 03 20:18 |
| schestowitz | "Two notices of dismissal have been filed with the courts -- Microsoft's in Washington State, and TomTom's in Virginia, each dismissed without prejudice, ending both patent litigations. "Without prejudice" means that either could ramp it up and do this some more in the future, should circumstances arise that made it necessary. But in most cases, it means the litigation, or whatever, is over." | Apr 03 20:18 |
| jose | i was interested in the groklaw stories you wrote about but i got sidetracked and didn't get to them. | Apr 03 20:18 |
| schestowitz | I have a megapost about TomTom comung | Apr 03 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Lots of work on it required | Apr 03 20:18 |
| jose | i'll be super busy the next day and a half to 2 days | Apr 03 20:19 |
| jose | regularly busy thereafter | Apr 03 20:19 |
| jose | probably won't log on tomorrow | Apr 03 20:19 |
| jose | but i was going to say.. you can always email and if i check in time and have time i can look a post over (pref for limited cases since i doubt i'll spend too much time proofing). | Apr 03 20:20 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20... (MIT Police Suspended For Trashing Student Newspaper) | Apr 03 20:21 |
| schestowitz | There's no busy affair over the horizon | Apr 03 20:22 |
| schestowitz | No major release that I know of anyway. The IBM deal --if true -- has already been digested by many | Apr 03 20:22 |
| schestowitz | It seems likely that Novell will stick close to Microsoft as time goes by. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/0... | Apr 03 20:24 |
| jose | i would like to see novell snap out of that, but their strategy probably runs too deeply and those carrying it out are probably too committed (eg, really really like ms). | Apr 03 20:27 |
| jose | the future will tell | Apr 03 20:27 |
| jose | did you catch this quote: | Apr 03 20:28 |
| jose | from 1998 | Apr 03 20:28 |
| jose | >> Linux is a cult that captures the best-and-brightest kids. [...] The Linux cult views Solaris as bad and Windows as evil or stupid. [...] Linux is a huge training group and experimental laboratory for Solaris. Suggestion: We need to find and analog to create a “cult” of core windows developers. | Apr 03 20:28 |
| jose | they probably weren't thinking exclusively about getting foss or nonfoss devs. | Apr 03 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Yes, got it already | Apr 03 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Firefox has a following too | Apr 03 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Not exactly GNU-like | Apr 03 20:29 |
| jose | the connection to the mono gang is something i couldn't help considering | Apr 03 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Also following from USERS | Apr 03 20:29 |
| schestowitz | jose: mono gang has MS-hooks | Apr 03 20:29 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know until recently that Nat Friedman is a MS employee | Apr 03 20:30 |
| schestowitz | He worked there for a long time | Apr 03 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Then he hooked up with the guy who tried to work for Microsoft. They made some bizniz | Apr 03 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | So let's put it this way | Apr 03 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Putting Miguel aside | Apr 03 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Nat has friends at Microsoft | Apr 03 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Some seniors too | Apr 03 20:31 |
| schestowitz | What is the likelihood there they have some agreement on some things | Apr 03 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Like ".NET is the future" | Apr 03 20:31 |
| schestowitz | And all that malarkey | Apr 03 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Why wouldn't an MS employee choose .NET for Ximian as a startup? | Apr 03 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Maybe there's some history tight there. | Apr 03 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Nat is bossing some people at Novell | Apr 03 20:32 |
| schestowitz | It's like putting MS in charge | Apr 03 20:32 |
| schestowitz | And Novell appointed other MS executives for high positions | Apr 03 20:32 |
| schestowitz | It's not as bad as vmware yet | Apr 03 20:32 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* http://video.google.com/vide... | Apr 03 20:34 |
| jose | of course i suspect that miguel "i didn't get into ms" might have gotten a much better offer... | Apr 03 20:35 |
| jose | but those details shouldn't matter. | Apr 03 20:36 |
| jose | without proof there is not much there | Apr 03 20:36 |
| jose | people can always imagine this sort of thing might be happening | Apr 03 20:36 |
| schestowitz | Nothing needs to 'happen' | Apr 03 20:36 |
| schestowitz | It's just common courtesy | Apr 03 20:36 |
| schestowitz | He's still buddies with them | Apr 03 20:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Miguel is a real shame for Linux Community | Apr 03 20:37 |
| schestowitz | They wrapped him up with a blanket and use him to ruin FOSS now | Apr 03 20:37 |
| jose | i'd rather not make this sort of stuff personal. | Apr 03 20:38 |
| jose | in any case, people will be known by their actions. | Apr 03 20:38 |
| jose | we can just criticize those actions | Apr 03 20:38 |
| _Hicham_ | jose : it is not personal | Apr 03 20:38 |
| jose | the novell people have left many holes | Apr 03 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the actions | Apr 03 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | we are talking about the actions | Apr 03 20:39 |
| jose | if we speculate on people, it can get ugly and unfair (especially if we are wrong) | Apr 03 20:39 |
| jose | i'm talking about speculating too much in public | Apr 03 20:39 |
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| schestowitz | Green Initiatives Save More than the Environment < http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs... > | Apr 03 20:39 |
| schestowitz | jose: that's exactly what I do --criticise by action | Apr 03 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Some people delve into personal life | Apr 03 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Like, we've had people speak about him mom and dad and calling him gay | Apr 03 20:40 |
| schestowitz | But most people talk about mono and motives | Apr 03 20:40 |
| schestowitz | That's not personal | Apr 03 20:40 |
| schestowitz | That's his professional deeds | Apr 03 20:40 |
| jose | schestowitz, i have some work to do and want to be able to get to bed early. | Apr 03 20:42 |
| jose | i find out about sun and anything else sunday or monday | Apr 03 20:42 |
| schestowitz | "IBM Near Deal to Buy Sun for Lower Price - Wall Street Journal" | Apr 03 20:42 |
| schestowitz | jose: just one thing | Apr 03 20:43 |
| jose | i'll find out... | Apr 03 20:43 |
| jose | one | Apr 03 20:43 |
| schestowitz | My criticisms are not personal | Apr 03 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Notice that I talk about actions | Apr 03 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Trolls in USENET dig into personal lives and MAKE STUFF UP..... intentionally... libel | Apr 03 20:43 |
| schestowitz | But that's to be expected from the likes of Microsoft | Apr 03 20:43 |
| jose | fwiw, i was talking about speculating on miguel.. and i wasn't talking about you.. | Apr 03 20:43 |
| schestowitz | They smear as part of the business model | Apr 03 20:44 |
| jose | ..or about anyone | Apr 03 20:44 |
| schestowitz | vs companies ->FUD | Apr 03 20:44 |
| schestowitz | vs resistors -> smears | Apr 03 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Speculation is another matter | Apr 03 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Not personal | Apr 03 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Professional but lacking certainty | Apr 03 20:44 |
| schestowitz | You can still judge a person by his motives where they seem obvious | Apr 03 20:44 |
| jose | right, but what do you do about people that will be turned off. | Apr 03 20:45 |
| schestowitz | And for Novell, to bury Mono is an impossibility | Apr 03 20:45 |
| jose | evidence quiets people or even converts them | Apr 03 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Likewise for Novell | Apr 03 20:45 |
| schestowitz | They are too deeplty invested in it | Apr 03 20:45 |
| schestowitz | They also have contracts with Microsoft | Apr 03 20:45 |
| jose | but speculation can lead to many enemies and upset people and etc | Apr 03 20:45 |
| jose | too deep is probably right | Apr 03 20:45 |
| jose | my comments sometimes sound very bold (i don't always say "i think" IMO etc) | Apr 03 20:46 |
| jose | but i don't mind too much if i keep it to corporations | Apr 03 20:46 |
| jose | or to general things | Apr 03 20:47 |
| jose | anyway, i got onto this tangent because of that quote about ms wanting to tap into the linux community approach | Apr 03 20:48 |
| jose | ok, will go soon enough | Apr 03 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | ESR does it again :-( http://www.opensource.org/node/415 | Apr 03 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Novell bought by Microsoft is still Llikely to be true. Novell was voted the least likely technology company to survive 2009 (eWeek survey, 2009), so this is no joke. | Apr 03 21:01 |
| _Hicham_ | why MS will buy Novell? | Apr 03 21:02 |
| _Hicham_ | this is unlikely to happen ... | Apr 03 21:03 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't think so, MS will never do such a bad mov | Apr 03 21:03 |
| _Hicham_ | move | Apr 03 21:03 |
| schestowitz | You never know.... | Apr 03 21:05 |
| _Hicham_ | MS don't want direct trouble with Linux community | Apr 03 21:06 |
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| jose | schestowitz, thought of an analogy | Apr 03 21:06 |
| jose | the link provided earlier today here about thieves stealing iron and copper and steal etc.. | Apr 03 21:07 |
| jose | from schneier i think | Apr 03 21:07 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Novell is a cheap takover target | Apr 03 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Just a couple of billiobs | Apr 03 21:07 |
| jose | microsoft is like those thieves | Apr 03 21:07 |
| jose | they spot odd conditions in society and exploit them to the last drop | Apr 03 21:08 |
| jose | ok, the analogy is stretched | Apr 03 21:08 |
| schestowitz | The ones who dumpster-dived for code? | Apr 03 21:08 |
| jose | yeah, that is straight "stealing of IP" .. no analogy needed there | Apr 03 21:09 |
| jose | microsoft helped lead to re-evaluation of stock options accounting rules | Apr 03 21:11 |
| jose | they probably played a key role in leading to foss being seen to save us from lock-in and monopolies | Apr 03 21:12 |
| jose | and may help show the foolishness of sw patents | Apr 03 21:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft is to stop Encarta service : http://encarta.msn.com/gu... | Apr 03 21:12 |
| jose | many other companies tap into the weak laws but don't go full out. | Apr 03 21:12 |
| schestowitz | "I would suggest you to shift to linux ASAP. More update on my Linux experience soon." http://visheshunni.wordpress.com/2009/0... | Apr 03 21:12 |
| schestowitz | People joke about MS bailout | Apr 03 21:13 |
| schestowitz | But I think it'll happen | Apr 03 21:13 |
| schestowitz | The latch onto medical data | Apr 03 21:13 |
| schestowitz | To create life dependency (thus public looting of data and funds) | Apr 03 21:13 |
| jose | .. this reminds me of the "banks too big to fail problem" | Apr 03 21:14 |
| jose | the gov should follow their approach and make sure to avoid similar situations in the technology field | Apr 03 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Five years with Ubuntu < http://www.ntra-net.com/2009/... > I too have used Ubuntu since 4.10 (not exclusively) | Apr 03 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Bank are too big, eh? | Apr 03 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Let me find a chart | Apr 03 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Here: http://www.cringely.com/2009/02/w... | Apr 03 21:17 |
| schestowitz | But he says it is not accurate | Apr 03 21:17 |
| jose | linear scale is correct | Apr 03 21:18 |
| jose | but they used 2d graph which suggests in mind a comparison made on squared values | Apr 03 21:18 |
| jose | ie, a circle that is half as long as another is 1/4 the size | Apr 03 21:18 |
| jose | the mind things "1/4" oh no | Apr 03 21:19 |
| jose | but the actual factual relationship was 1/2 | Apr 03 21:19 |
| jose | this effect is worse for greater changes in size | Apr 03 21:19 |
| jose | eg, 1/10 linear becomes 1/100 area | Apr 03 21:19 |
| jose | ie, 10% would give scare impression of being 1% | Apr 03 21:20 |
| jose | of the 100% reference point | Apr 03 21:20 |
| jose | if my rambling doesn't make sense | Apr 03 21:20 |
| jose | that's what happens when i should be planning for bed instead of being on irc | Apr 03 21:20 |
| jose | :-) | Apr 03 21:20 |
| *jose has quit ("Leaving") | Apr 03 21:21 | |
| schestowitz | "XScreenSaver is one of the most widely-used screensaver applications for Linux systems. The Debian project is seeking new maintainers to help keep the software running." http://www.linux-magazine.com/onli... | Apr 03 21:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linux-wizard.net/blog-comp... "So whereas it's sad for the compiz dev, I'm happy to see tyhat finally in the end, hacks and workaround like Compiz will come to and end." | Apr 03 21:28 |
| _Hicham_ | compiz will be integrated in Gnome by that time | Apr 03 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | when all people will have powerful graphic cards | Apr 03 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | but for the moment, I enjoy compiz | Apr 03 21:30 |
| schestowitz | We seem to have a site copying our posts: http://www.allaboutms.net/2009/... | Apr 03 21:33 |
| schestowitz | I'm actually cool about it because it keeps links and thus attributions in tact. It's good that our message spreads further like this. | Apr 03 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | good for u schestowitz | Apr 03 21:34 |
| _Hicham_ | u r getting popular | Apr 03 21:34 |
| schestowitz | I'll keep an eye on the site | Apr 03 21:34 |
| _Hicham_ | who is running it? | Apr 03 21:35 |
| schestowitz | No idea. Something in Russia, maybe a bot | Apr 03 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Mary Jo Foley talks BS now.. turning banter into some sort of headline that deceived: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2436 (Microsoft shouldn't buy Twitter)... well.. errr... it ain't... Google might. | Apr 03 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/mic... Gates: "No, the best way to prepare is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system." | Apr 03 21:52 |
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| PetoKraus | hmm | Apr 03 21:59 |
| PetoKraus | so he used GPLed code :P | Apr 03 21:59 |
| PetoKraus | (ok, public domain) | Apr 03 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft won't let companies host Azure on premise < http://www.infoworld.com/archiv... > | Apr 03 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Stating the obvious: PJ: "How naive do you have to be to put all your stuff on a proprietary infrastructure that you don't control? At least, I'd want to look at the small print and find out in advance what happens to my stuff..." | Apr 03 22:03 |
| schestowitz | " if we have a dispute about, say, a price increase around the time we are negotiating a new deal and right after Azure has been "innovated" in just such a way that I can't get my older documents to open even if I could get to them unless I pay? I see the word "innovation" here, and I think "lock-in"." | Apr 03 22:03 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: read the whole work and see how Microsoft never really invented anything. They just forced the market to accept stuff (junk) | Apr 03 22:04 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 03 22:04 |
| schestowitz | CNET: "# ۩2009 CBS Interactive Inc. All rights reserved." | Apr 03 22:07 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if the same goes for ZDNet then. The big networks pick up even the Microsoft press | Apr 03 22:07 |
| tacone | "a ton of new IP" | Apr 03 22:08 |
| tacone | wow | Apr 03 22:08 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: are you on Gentoo? | Apr 03 22:08 |
| tacone | can't wait. | Apr 03 22:08 |
| schestowitz | IP is pronounced "hip" | Apr 03 22:08 |
| tacone | i don't get it :) | Apr 03 22:09 |
| schestowitz | I got HIP | Apr 03 22:09 |
| schestowitz | I SUE you | Apr 03 22:09 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: arch | Apr 03 22:10 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: why? | Apr 03 22:10 |
| tacone | leave it alone :-) | Apr 03 22:10 |
| schestowitz | I read a good review about it yesterday. Posted in BN links, as well. | Apr 03 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Does it come with Pac Man or just pcman? | Apr 03 22:11 |
| schestowitz | *pacman | Apr 03 22:11 |
| PetoKraus | pacman | Apr 03 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Party like it's 1985. http://www.geekologie.com/20... | Apr 03 22:12 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Apr 03 22:13 |
| tacone | schestowitz: can I make a question of out of curiosity ? | Apr 03 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Is ASUS dumping Xandros (with Microsoft patent deal) for Google? http://apcmag.com/Content.aspx?id=3711 | Apr 03 22:17 |
| schestowitz | tacone: sure. | Apr 03 22:17 |
| tacone | schestowitz: how many daily visitors does BN get on average ? | Apr 03 22:17 |
| tacone | android is a clever choice from some points of views. better than gnome/kde in a way. | Apr 03 22:18 |
| tacone | i never did an android app, but the idea i got it's like creating a plugin | Apr 03 22:20 |
| schestowitz | BN -- depends on definiton | Apr 03 22:23 |
| _Hicham_ | BN is very very popular | Apr 03 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Webalizer says 8000 | Apr 03 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Android seems to suck | Apr 03 22:24 |
| schestowitz | I think they like a major vendor+DRM | Apr 03 22:24 |
| schestowitz | tacone: plugin=bad portability | Apr 03 22:24 |
| tacone | i'm not saying android is good or bad. | Apr 03 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Like building some XUL app for Firefox | Apr 03 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Had Firefox died where would you run your work? | Apr 03 22:25 |
| tacone | i say it's getting good rap from oems for some reasons. | Apr 03 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Run as in disseminate to many users? | Apr 03 22:25 |
| schestowitz | tacone: maybe it's easier to sell something like "Google" | Apr 03 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Than Zulu terminology | Apr 03 22:25 |
| tacone | i think android still has some good pratical points | Apr 03 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Can the theme i Ubuntu ( Remix) be changed? | Apr 03 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Grey on dark laptops looks awful and so is brown/dark orange | Apr 03 22:26 |
| tacone | ubuntu remix theme ? | Apr 03 22:26 |
| schestowitz | It looks like a chocolate box | Apr 03 22:27 |
| tacone | i didn't tried UR | Apr 03 22:27 |
| schestowitz | H-P customised it better | Apr 03 22:27 |
| tacone | but i believe it's transparent. | Apr 03 22:27 |
| tacone | so depends from the wallpaper. | Apr 03 22:27 |
| tacone | if you're talking about ubuntu mobile remix. | Apr 03 22:27 |
| tacone | "remix" is any unofficial derivative. | Apr 03 22:27 |
| schestowitz | MS press: "Last May, Sun completed the final stages of open sourcing Java under the GNU license." < http://reddevnews.com/reports/a... > | Apr 03 22:28 |
| schestowitz | The GL? | Apr 03 22:28 |
| tacone | "remix" is the keyword canonical forces you to use if you want to use Ubuntu trademark | Apr 03 22:28 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know that. I know they pressure flxubuntu | Apr 03 22:29 |
| tacone | you can't create schestowitzbuntu | Apr 03 22:29 |
| tacone | thou salt not use Ubuntu or *buntu. | Apr 03 22:29 |
| schestowitz | They defend their trdaemarks, claiming ownership of language | Apr 03 22:29 |
| tacone | right. | Apr 03 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu is not a name | Apr 03 22:29 |
| tacone | they never sue anyone afaik | Apr 03 22:29 |
| schestowitz | It's a word | Apr 03 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Will they close down those restaurants that predate them? | Apr 03 22:29 |
| tacone | but some one asked their permission explicitely for a website | Apr 03 22:29 |
| tacone | and they said *no*. | Apr 03 22:29 |
| schestowitz | They could claim that in context of computing it applies | Apr 03 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Firebird was the same | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | And Phoenix | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Firefox used to be called both | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | They had to shift name | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | *name | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | *names | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Twice. | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Phoenix BIOS and Firebird DB | Apr 03 22:30 |
| tacone | i guess mozilla did change on their own, not because pressed. | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Maybe. | Apr 03 22:30 |
| schestowitz | I read it differently | Apr 03 22:31 |
| tacone | i know nothing about it. | Apr 03 22:31 |
| tacone | my take mozilla needs a strong and unique trademark in first place. | Apr 03 22:31 |
| schestowitz | .I feel bad for people who creare some *ubuntu*.[net|org] site | Apr 03 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Or with *linux* | Apr 03 22:31 |
| schestowitz | TuxMachines is OK | Apr 03 22:31 |
| tacone | oh, *ubuntu.net/org etc are gonna stay | Apr 03 22:31 |
| tacone | no one will sue them. | Apr 03 22:31 |
| schestowitz | People search for Linux | Apr 03 22:31 |
| schestowitz | They get "Linux"..com | Apr 03 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Front page - anfi-BN artivle | Apr 03 22:32 |
| tacone | but of course shall they ask for permission, they'd get a negative response. | Apr 03 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Some peoople advocate trashing of trademarks | Apr 03 22:32 |
| schestowitz | But that would harm recognition | Apr 03 22:32 |
| tacone | i don't care about trademarks | Apr 03 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Maybe these can be softened | Apr 03 22:32 |
| tacone | unless they're pushed too far | Apr 03 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Photoshop too is a bastard trademar | Apr 03 22:33 |
| tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/apple-p... | Apr 03 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Heh. pod | Apr 03 22:33 |
| schestowitz | I neve write p*dcast | Apr 03 22:33 |
| tacone | podium is a latin word. neverthless they claim it | Apr 03 22:33 |
| schestowitz | It attributes audio to some ill-behaving company | Apr 03 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Even some Linux sites call it something which sugggests I'll listen to it using an ip*d | Apr 03 22:34 |
| schestowitz | It's bastardisation of vocabulary | Apr 03 22:34 |
| tacone | apple has no right to claim pod anyway. | Apr 03 22:34 |
| schestowitz | When vacuum cleaner is hoover | Apr 03 22:34 |
| schestowitz | and computer is XP | Apr 03 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Free software is "Linux" | Apr 03 22:34 |
| tacone | despite being bad to use pod to mean music player. | Apr 03 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Apple shut down a rumour site | Apr 03 22:35 |
| schestowitz | About Apple. | Apr 03 22:35 |
| tacone | it was called apple* though. | Apr 03 22:35 |
| schestowitz | No telling what the terms were. Maybe they paid him. | Apr 03 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Apple is a fruit | Apr 03 22:35 |
| tacone | guess they did. | Apr 03 22:35 |
| tacone | or scared him. | Apr 03 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Apple Linux | Apr 03 22:35 |
| schestowitz | I'd go for it | Apr 03 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Nice wallpaper... | Apr 03 22:36 |
| tacone | which ? | Apr 03 22:36 |
| MinceR | nice? | Apr 03 22:36 |
| _Hicham_ | where is this wallpaper? | Apr 03 22:36 |
| MinceR | maybe if fisher-price is your style :> | Apr 03 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Applux. Yummy! http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/46300... | Apr 03 22:36 |
| tacone | everybody loves wallpapers | Apr 03 22:36 |
| schestowitz | People remember distros by their wallpapers | Apr 03 22:37 |
| schestowitz | F11 did well | Apr 03 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Nice wallpaper of nature, no artwork | Apr 03 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Remember Vists7 vapourware | Apr 03 22:37 |
| tacone | ubuntu hardy had a strong wallpaper | Apr 03 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Let me show you how Microsoft spreads cr*p | Apr 03 22:37 |
| tacone | they do on 1st april :-) | Apr 03 22:38 |
| MinceR | with heavy machinery? | Apr 03 22:38 |
| tacone | with conficker. | Apr 03 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Can't find it ATM.. | Apr 03 22:39 |
| schestowitz | http://elganmedia.net/ <- MS fan | Apr 03 22:39 |
| schestowitz | The April 1st post from him was that silly Vista 7 leaked' screenshots that just show an iceland with a boat | Apr 03 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Oh, and some icons beneath it. | Apr 03 22:40 |
| schestowitz | I'll get started with links | Apr 03 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Good news for Linux, almost none for Microsoft, as the case has been... well, since 2007. | Apr 03 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | MS is closing department after department | Apr 03 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Until the core | Apr 03 22:49 |
| schestowitz | They had a core: Windows | Apr 03 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Then Office too | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | They needed to expand | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Said ballmer explicitly | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | "If we don't grow, then we shrink" (or something along those lines... 2008) | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | So they started XBox. Fail. | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | $7 billion down the can | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | They tried Zune.. | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Enough said. | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Google killer | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Haha. | Apr 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Now they deflate | Apr 03 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Until the bone (Windows+Office) | Apr 03 22:51 |
| schestowitz | SaaS and FOSS kill their revenue margins... $50 Office for young people, free copies where Microsoft loves counterfeiting and Windows is a freebie. | Apr 03 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Now, that would work IF people bought new hardware | Apr 03 22:52 |
| schestowitz | The OS they can give for free is almost a decade old (2001) | Apr 03 22:52 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 pisses on it | Apr 03 22:52 |
| tacone | lol | Apr 03 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Allchin: piss on Java .. < http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-mi... > | Apr 03 22:56 |
| *schestowitz removes ban on McCain!*@* | Apr 03 23:05 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*n=ryan@*.hsd1.il.comcast.net | Apr 03 23:05 | |
| *DaemonFC` (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 03 23:06 | |
| DaemonFC` | I'm considering going back to XFS, I've actually lost data to Ext4 twice now | Apr 03 23:07 |
| *DaemonFC` growls | Apr 03 23:07 | |
| *DaemonFC` is now known as DaemonFC | Apr 03 23:07 | |
| *tacone is on xfs | Apr 03 23:08 | |
| DaemonFC | if you enable barriers on Ext4, your data is corrupted in a crash | Apr 03 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | if you disable them, your data is corrupted worse | Apr 03 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 03 23:09 |
| MinceR | at least it's POSIX-compliant ;) | Apr 03 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | XFS is POSIX compliant | Apr 03 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | show me where it violates any POSIX standard ;) | Apr 03 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | and you can only use the word standard loosely with regards to anything unix/posix | Apr 03 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | and the wonderful thing about standards is there's so many to choose from | Apr 03 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | no POSIX spec for file system behavior guarantees data integrity at all | Apr 03 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes the correct thing for the file system to do in a situation is undefined | Apr 03 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | well, a lot of the time I should say | Apr 03 23:15 |
| schestowitz | ryan, you were unbanned based on the assumption that you would chill. You are here just ranting. | Apr 03 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | POSIX is a joke, SUS is a joke, LSB is a joke, it's because the companies that "standardize" the stuff adon't want standards | Apr 03 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | they don't want you to leave Red Hat and use Novell or leave Novell and use Ubuntu | Apr 03 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | no, I just cringe everytime someone says POSIX, because without guaranteed consistent behavior, it is not a standard | Apr 03 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Ok, but it's hardly on topic | Apr 03 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Filesystem that is | Apr 03 23:17 |
| schestowitz | You're already in file system channels. You should rant *there* | Apr 03 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | standards apply to steel beams, not software :) ever | Apr 03 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | and I leave it at that | Apr 03 23:18 |
| schestowitz | What do you program in? | Apr 03 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | I mainly try to use the stuff that various random projects churn out and you know that one UNIX or Linux may work fine and another UNIX or Linux may not even let the application build, much less even fail *after* building | Apr 03 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | but this applies even between two Linux distros that are LSB-compliant | Apr 03 23:20 |
| schestowitz | You can usually build it somehow for any distro | Apr 03 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Unlike for a closed system | Apr 03 23:20 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: Ted Ts'o's argument was that it's POSIX-compliant | Apr 03 23:20 |
| MinceR | which is pretty much irrelevant if it loses data :P | Apr 03 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | so it's very much an end user problem when you need guarantees and all you have are buggy test suites that say two incompatible systems pass | Apr 03 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Where you can struggle forever building for some forced crippled 'upgrade' like Longhorn | Apr 03 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | and leave mostly wiggle room anyway | Apr 03 23:21 |
| schestowitz | ext4 is not yet bundles | Apr 03 23:21 |
| schestowitz | *bundled (for a reason) | Apr 03 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | and Ted Ts'o is masturbating if he expects any reasonable person to not laugh at that | Apr 03 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | cause POSIX compliant means squat | Apr 03 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Did you see what he said about Debian? | Apr 03 23:21 |
| schestowitz | He's got some opposition to him. | Apr 03 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | OK, that happens | Apr 03 23:22 |
| tacone | ext4 is in jaunty | Apr 03 23:22 |
| tacone | and in next fedora | Apr 03 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | and their kernel is not fit to run Ext4 | Apr 03 23:22 |
| schestowitz | He's the CTO of LF now | Apr 03 23:22 |
| tacone | they patch. | Apr 03 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | cause they are not backporting even basic patches for fs integrity sanity | Apr 03 23:22 |
| schestowitz | They got Moblin | Apr 03 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Intel probably dumped it at LF cause it's trash | Apr 03 23:23 |
| schestowitz | ARM can use Intel's code now | Apr 03 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | It's easier for me to build my own kernel and patch it with what makes sense | Apr 03 23:23 |
| schestowitz | And make cheaper, faster, more energy-efficient 'MIDs', as Intel wants to cell them | Apr 03 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | cause you can never trust a distro kernel to do the right thing | Apr 03 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | If it's not in Trovalds' tree, I don't want it | Apr 03 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | period | Apr 03 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | if Torvalds has refused it, don't maintain it out of tree, he is smarter than you | Apr 03 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 03 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Morton's a mess | Apr 03 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Was | Apr 03 23:25 |
| schestowitz | In 2.6.28 | Apr 03 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | if Ubuntu would follow that guideline if they can't make meaningful contributions | Apr 03 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu would be a lot higher quality | Apr 03 23:25 |
| schestowitz | But it's not intended for use in distros | Apr 03 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Candidates for merging | Apr 03 23:25 |
| schestowitz | ext4 is not merged yet | Apr 03 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | of course mm is a mess, that's why there's an mm | Apr 03 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Not in -final | Apr 03 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | it has every experimental patch you can have | Apr 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | even Reiser4 | Apr 03 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | You want stable, the stick with centos | Apr 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | Reiser4 is not a bad file system, they turned down a damn fine contribution | Apr 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | cause the developer was a jerk | Apr 03 23:26 |
| schestowitz | http://jehurst.wordpress.com/2009/0... It works really, really well. | Apr 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | CentOS is kind of ridiculous | Apr 03 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | RHEL kernels can only load Ext3, you have to use that or Ext2 | Apr 03 23:27 |
| schestowitz | Fine. | Apr 03 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | you have to build the modules yourself after the system is already installed, which means rebuilding their kernel source if you still want one that's mostly RHEL | Apr 03 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | and if you are using RHEL, this voids your support | Apr 03 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Apr 03 23:28 |
| schestowitz | You want cutting-edge, then use Sabayon | Apr 03 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | XFS is hardly cutting edge | Apr 03 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | I mean loading the module in an RHEL kernel voids your support | Apr 03 23:29 |
| MinceR | "if i want cutting edge, i'll buy a sword. if i want bleeding edge, i'll use it." | Apr 03 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | meh, Debian has good package management but is ancient, Fedora is cutting edge but their package manager sucks | Apr 03 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | so Ubuntu is a compromise that most people can live with | Apr 03 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | and most of the stuff that comes from them is alright | Apr 03 23:31 |
| *tacone agrees | Apr 03 23:32 | |
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| schestowitz | wb, oiaohm | Apr 03 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | I even tried OpenSuse at one point on a spare system to see what all the hubbub was about | Apr 03 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | and was greeted by an EXE | Apr 03 23:34 |
| schestowitz | and DLLs | Apr 03 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Mono | Apr 03 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | that didn't last long | Apr 03 23:34 |
| schestowitz | DLL hell? | Apr 03 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Mono hell? | Apr 03 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | yeah no shit | Apr 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | look for dll | Apr 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | locate dll | Apr 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | and watch all the crap fly down the terminal window | Apr 03 23:35 |
| benJIman | Because the most important thing about libraries is what the file extension is. | Apr 03 23:35 |
| schestowitz | Wait until Novell make symbolic links | Apr 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | they could have named them .so | Apr 03 23:35 |
| schestowitz | /opt/bin/ --> /progra~1 | Apr 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | Suse is just flagrantly naming stuff EXE/DLL etc to wave their dick around | Apr 03 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | I'm convinced | Apr 03 23:36 |
| tacone | they may already have, i guess | Apr 03 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | wait, they don't even have locate or slocate or mlocate | Apr 03 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | you have to install that | Apr 03 23:37 |
| schestowitz | When they are done rewriting yast2, then I'll sure look under /progra~1/yast.exe | Apr 03 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | and build the database | Apr 03 23:37 |
| benJIman | Because locate is not actually that useful. | Apr 03 23:37 |
| benJIman | or efficient. | Apr 03 23:37 |
| benJIman | When the database building was on by default there were more complaints than there are about beagle now. | Apr 03 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Yast has never been a efficient thing. | Apr 03 23:38 |
| schestowitz | beagle is a exe app too | Apr 03 23:38 |
| benJIman | Programme filename ends in .exe! Warn your distributor now. | Apr 03 23:38 |
| PetoKraus | yeah, it's quite retarded | Apr 03 23:39 |
| schestowitz | (23:38 $)âââ¬> beagle --help | Apr 03 23:39 |
| schestowitz | ERROR | Apr 03 23:39 |
| schestowitz | (23:38 $)âââ¬> beagle /help | Apr 03 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Apr 03 23:39 |
| tacone | really ? | Apr 03 23:40 |
| tacone | would be beagle /? | Apr 03 23:40 |
| schestowitz | I think it could. Teachnically it can. | Apr 03 23:41 |
| schestowitz | You know what Mono adovocates say | Apr 03 23:42 |
| schestowitz | It's about attracting Windows developers | Apr 03 23:42 |
| schestowitz | They mimic VS already | Apr 03 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Wallpaper for OpenSUSE 12.0: http://www.guidebookgallery.o... | Apr 03 23:43 |
| oiaohm | PE of .mono can be picked up by wine by mistake. | Apr 03 23:43 |
| tacone | lol | Apr 03 23:43 |
| schestowitz | The point I'm trying to make is that the approach is flawed | Apr 03 23:43 |
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| tacone | would be fun to have a screenshot with the suse gnome panel | Apr 03 23:44 |
| schestowitz | I mean, sure... to make them most 'welcome' you just give them another Windows | Apr 03 23:44 |
| schestowitz | But what was actually achieved? | Apr 03 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | then Wine tells you to install Mono for Windows | Apr 03 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | inside Wine | Apr 03 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 03 23:45 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: are you joking or they do already ? | Apr 03 23:46 |
| oiaohm | http://projects.gnome.org/tracker/ Gnome guys got sick of beagle poor performance due to being .net and wrote this C based replacement. | Apr 03 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | not joking | Apr 03 23:46 |
| tacone | i knew they had plans to do that. | Apr 03 23:46 |
| oiaohm | And that is no joke | Apr 03 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | Tracker is in Ubuntu | Apr 03 23:46 |
| MinceR | then they'll port wine to mono | Apr 03 23:46 |
| tacone | oiaohm: tracker sucks in many ways | Apr 03 23:46 |
| MinceR | then you can run wine on mono on wine on mono on wine on mono on wine on mono on wine on mono... | Apr 03 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Compared to beagle that can eat you cpu and ram for lunch. | Apr 03 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Let's isntall Mono in Wine then rewrite Win in Mono and install it in Mono For Wine | Apr 03 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Wine cannot be ported to mono. | Apr 03 23:47 |
| tacone | tracker used to hang my gtk apps | Apr 03 23:47 |
| tacone | lol | Apr 03 23:47 |
| oiaohm | tracker only eats you cpu for lunch from time to time. | Apr 03 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Its a improvement. | Apr 03 23:47 |
| tacone | no, it hung applications which were trying to read they're .glade file. for minutes | Apr 03 23:47 |
| tacone | I hope the newer versions of tracker work better | Apr 03 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME, I think, realizes what a bad thing Mono is, how poor the performance is | Apr 03 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | and is moving away | Apr 03 23:48 |
| tacone | neverthless, tracker is worth nothing without a good gui | Apr 03 23:48 |
| tacone | and it has not any good gui | Apr 03 23:48 |
| PetoKraus | sup dawg we herd you like to wine so we put mono in your wine so you can wine while you mono | Apr 03 23:48 |
| tacone | gnome doesn't realize nothing about mono. | Apr 03 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | they're moving away from Mozilla crap at least | Apr 03 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | I'm happy about that | Apr 03 23:48 |
| tacone | zomg | Apr 03 23:49 |
| oiaohm | http://strigi.sourceforge.net/ Kde version works about the best. | Apr 03 23:49 |
| tacone | i don't have a suse live cd. | Apr 03 23:49 |
| tacone | what now ? | Apr 03 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | pretty soon we can use GTKWebkit which is like 4 times faster on scripts | Apr 03 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | and takes less RAM | Apr 03 23:49 |
| *schestowitz uses strigi | Apr 03 23:49 | |
| MinceR | PetoKraus: lol | Apr 03 23:50 |
| tacone | $ wget downloads.microsoft.com/europe/mi/ballnux-latest-i386.iso | Apr 03 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Has anyone checked the software packages contained in that. | Apr 03 23:51 |
| oiaohm | Because that means MS is the direct distributor of them. | Apr 03 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully some GPLv3 in there. | Apr 03 23:52 |
| Balrog_ | well, GTKWebkit needs work. Sure it's being done. | Apr 03 23:52 |
| *tacone wishes wordpress was on gpl3. is being distributed by MS | Apr 03 23:53 | |
| Balrog_ | and Firefox has native ogg theora/vorbis support | Apr 03 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | wordpress .... distributed ... by MS? | Apr 03 23:53 |
| tacone | yeah | Apr 03 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | link | Apr 03 23:53 |
| tacone | https://www.microsoft.com/web/ | Apr 03 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | you mean their crippled version? | Apr 03 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | or enhanced? | Apr 03 23:54 |
| tacone | i don't think it's enh/crippl | Apr 03 23:54 |
| tacone | i think they just patched it for iis /sql serv. | Apr 03 23:54 |
| tacone | http://www.microsoft.com/web/gall... | Apr 03 23:54 |
| tacone | it's the first app listed | Apr 03 23:54 |
| Balrog_ | well, server 2008 does support PHP, I head | Apr 03 23:54 |
| Balrog_ | I don't know how well | Apr 03 23:54 |
| Balrog_ | probably poorly | Apr 03 23:55 |
| tacone | they worked closely with zend in the last years | Apr 03 23:55 |
| tacone | probably hopelessy trying to compete with apache. | Apr 03 23:55 |
| oiaohm | server 2008 still have disc access glitches. | Apr 03 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | here we still use server 03, when we have to use windows | Apr 03 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Zend says it runs Linux 95% of the time | Apr 03 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Microsofgt is losing it | Apr 03 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Only a MS Sandwich Engineer would buy a $3000 server to run a blog | Apr 03 23:57 |
| Balrog_ | yes, that is correct. Or an idiot | Apr 03 23:57 |
| Balrog_ | (and I know some people who run mail / forum servers on Windows Server) | Apr 03 23:57 |
| tacone | it's just a one more thing you can do. | Apr 03 23:57 |
| schestowitz | They rely on lots of ignorance. They still have some people who use IE6 | Apr 03 23:57 |
| tacone | yes they do rely on ignorance. | Apr 03 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Windows=easy | Apr 03 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft=innovative | Apr 03 23:58 |
| Balrog_ | no, windows is not easy at all | Apr 03 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Linux=mother's basement | Apr 03 23:58 |
| Balrog_ | people just hate config files and text-based stuff | Apr 03 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know how it's easier to reformat the disk every so often | Apr 03 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Apple=:"too cool" | Apr 03 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | and just accept it as normal | Apr 03 23:58 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: according to Microsoft :P | Apr 03 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Yes, of course | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | It's the hypnosis | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | You need to recite it | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Ribbon=innovative | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | OOXML=sophisticated | Apr 03 23:59 |
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| oiaohm | Lack of good desktop graphical tools for configuring Linux. | Apr 03 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Have caused lots of problems. | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Which tools? | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Some people grew up with config files | Apr 03 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Yet there was no point to good graphical tools to configure Linux while X11 was unstable. | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | So they carry on ignoring GUIs | Apr 03 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I still write my cron jobs | Apr 03 23:59 |
| Balrog_ | and some grew up with no config files | Apr 03 23:59 |
