To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-131-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 13 00:05 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: but let's leave that aside... | Apr 13 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | How are the APPS | Apr 13 00:06 |
| schestowitz | ? | Apr 13 00:06 |
| schestowitz | That's what matters most | Apr 13 00:06 |
| MinceR | they'll take some getting used to | Apr 13 00:06 |
| _Hicham_ | which APPS? | Apr 13 00:06 |
| MinceR | and no, that isn't what matters most because i can use them in any DE | Apr 13 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Some KDE bugs I reported are supposedly fixed only in the kde4 versions and the same goes for most bugs in general because kde4 is the same branch for projects | Apr 13 00:06 |
| why don't you just use the 64 bit package? | Apr 13 00:06 | |
| _Hicham_ | freedesktop have done a great work | Apr 13 00:06 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: true.. could. | Apr 13 00:07 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : any news about Windows 7? | Apr 13 00:07 |
| DaemonFC | not really, that computer has been off most of the day, went out to eat with my dad for my birthday and easter kind of in one | Apr 13 00:08 |
| trmanco | http://forum.xda-developers.co... | Apr 13 00:08 |
| trmanco | "NSA has access to Windows Mobile smartphones" | Apr 13 00:08 |
| DaemonFC | showed it to him and his reaction was "That's Vista, right?" | Apr 13 00:08 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 13 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | that would be most people's reaction | Apr 13 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | normal | Apr 13 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | same themes engine | Apr 13 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | that what differs through Windows versions | Apr 13 00:09 |
| _Hicham_ | theme engine | Apr 13 00:09 |
| DaemonFC | Well, if it wasn't stamped Release Candidate, I'd figure they were just saving the UI work for later like always | Apr 13 00:09 |
| DaemonFC | but the GUI is 95% identical to Vista | Apr 13 00:09 |
| three years ago people thought E16 was vista too | Apr 13 00:09 | |
| ha ha | Apr 13 00:09 | |
| DaemonFC | there's some minor improvements in 7 and many more major new problems | Apr 13 00:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft hires artists more than developers :D | Apr 13 00:10 |
| DaemonFC | it's not an upgrade even by Vista standards | Apr 13 00:10 |
| more sales than art | Apr 13 00:10 | |
| _Hicham_ | improvements? | Apr 13 00:10 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I like the way the window grouping is handled, IE 8 is better than 7 but it's still awful | Apr 13 00:10 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: old news (to me) | Apr 13 00:10 |
| DaemonFC | and even if you use IE, there is an IE 8 for Vista | Apr 13 00:10 |
| schestowitz | That's why they wanted OBAMAA to ditch Crackberry | Apr 13 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | so it really isn't worth anything even assuming you're on Vista | Apr 13 00:11 |
| trmanco | I thought it was only in Windows NT | Apr 13 00:11 |
| what was that cartoon I saw? an image of Hitler is an improvement over vista | Apr 13 00:11 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: that would be Apple | Apr 13 00:11 |
| DaemonFC | well, my problem with 7 is not mainly technical defects, it's intentional ones | Apr 13 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is just catching up when it comes to artists | Apr 13 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | new DRM and such | Apr 13 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | Product Activation | Apr 13 00:12 |
| schestowitz | KDE has some good artists like the Lancelot guy and this other Portuguese guy who made Raptor, IIRC... and Oxygen | Apr 13 00:12 |
| catching up? I suppose ripping KDE off is a way to catch up | Apr 13 00:12 | |
| schestowitz | yes | Apr 13 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Apple did that too | Apr 13 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Xerox PARC | Apr 13 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think Windows or OS X rip KDE off | Apr 13 00:13 |
| at least Apple made things their own. | Apr 13 00:13 | |
| M$ just coppies | Apr 13 00:13 | |
| DaemonFC | I dislike KDE's layout more | Apr 13 00:13 |
| _Hicham_ | best artwork is fedora's | Apr 13 00:13 |
| I've seen Windows 7 screenshots that are complete KDE ripoffs | Apr 13 00:14 | |
| DaemonFC | the choose your own adventure menu, the various "What the hell is that?" apps like Akonadi | Apr 13 00:14 |
| it does not matter, it's all vapor really | Apr 13 00:14 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q... skip to 13:00 | Apr 13 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Think of MSFT | Apr 13 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva has the only usable KDE 4 and it's because they made the classic menu work exactly like KDE 3's | Apr 13 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | and ripped out Phonon and replaced it with Pulseaudio | Apr 13 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva KDE FTW (using it here) | Apr 13 00:15 |
| trmanco | phonon? | Apr 13 00:15 |
| trmanco | never heard of it | Apr 13 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | Phonon has failed to use blah blah blah device....falling back to blahblahblah" | Apr 13 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | that was annoying | Apr 13 00:15 |
| trmanco | well, good thing people have a choice | Apr 13 00:16 |
| _Hicham_ | PulseAudio is a good transitional solution | Apr 13 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, that's why Kubuntu doesn't have Pulse, Phonon is meant to do some of the same things | Apr 13 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | and installing both can make trouble | Apr 13 00:16 |
| trmanco | pulseaudio isn't completely baked | Apr 13 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Wow. | Apr 13 00:16 |
| schestowitz | It turns out that American military bases in the UK are disguised as RAF based | Apr 13 00:17 |
| schestowitz | *bases | Apr 13 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Predictable, but interesting. | Apr 13 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | we have military bases on every continent and in almost every country of strategic importance | Apr 13 00:17 |
| trmanco | royal air force? | Apr 13 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | and even when something is out of reach of that | Apr 13 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | we have aircraft carriers | Apr 13 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | and attack submarines | Apr 13 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | and guided missile destroyers | Apr 13 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : and u have Microsoft | Apr 13 00:18 |
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| DaemonFC | we've got nukes, we've got drones, we've got bombers, fighters, guns, knives, sharp sticks | Apr 13 00:18 |
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| DaemonFC | and bad languager | Apr 13 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | *language | Apr 13 00:19 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 13 00:19 |
| DaemonFC | the problem with having the best technology is that when the enemy is in an urban area and can draw you in and force you to go door to door | Apr 13 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | it's nearly useless | Apr 13 00:20 |
| schestowitz | Over 6000 military bases in the US... | Apr 13 00:20 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, battles of scale | Apr 13 00:20 |
| schestowitz | The assumption if that it's a confrontation between countries | Apr 13 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: That's where Saddam Hussein went wrong | Apr 13 00:20 |
| schestowitz | Not guerrilla warfare | Apr 13 00:20 |
| schestowitz | That's why it fails so badly in Iraq, Vietnam... | Apr 13 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | a T-72 battle tank could be effective against an M1A2 Abrahms at close range | Apr 13 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | if he had had his forces fall back into Kuwait City | Apr 13 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | that would have negated our technological advantage | Apr 13 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | as effective range, computer targeting, and GPS no longer matter | Apr 13 00:22 |
| DaemonFC | and it's jsut who gets the shot off first | Apr 13 00:22 |
| schestowitz | yes | Apr 13 00:22 |
| schestowitz | hbombs | Apr 13 00:22 |
| nuke fixes problem -> the problem with having the best technology is that when the enemy is in an urban area and can draw you in and force you to go door to door | Apr 13 00:22 | |
| schestowitz | it f*cks up even water and electricity systems | Apr 13 00:22 |
| concentrating forces for a nuke strike is a bad idea | Apr 13 00:23 | |
| schestowitz | People starve after a while if hit in particular places. Time to take the treaties seriously and disarm | Apr 13 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: We would never have used a neutron bomb to knock out Kuwait City | Apr 13 00:23 |
| schestowitz | They should rearm with wind turbines instead | Apr 13 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | that would have crippled their oil extraction infrastructure | Apr 13 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Work on efficient energy, not plutonium | Apr 13 00:23 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u have done more in Iraq | Apr 13 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | the EM pulse would knock out most of Kuwait's electronics | Apr 13 00:23 |
| GWB wanted to bomb Al Gazera anyway | Apr 13 00:24 | |
| schestowitz | it's not a building | Apr 13 00:24 |
| DaemonFC | well, I'm no more responsible for Iraq than schestowitz | Apr 13 00:24 |
| schestowitz | It's like fighting "terrorism" | Apr 13 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Or fighting "hate" | Apr 13 00:24 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure his government would jail him for not paying taxes | Apr 13 00:24 |
| no? you pay taxes | Apr 13 00:24 | |
| schestowitz | Or fighting "nitrogen" | Apr 13 00:24 |
| fighting flatulence! | Apr 13 00:24 | |
| obesity | Apr 13 00:25 | |
| DaemonFC | twitter: If I want to go to prison for years | Apr 13 00:25 |
| DaemonFC | then yeah I could evade taxes | Apr 13 00:25 |
| schestowitz | twitter: bomb those "flatulence" bastards | Apr 13 00:25 |
| DaemonFC | so I'm a victim in this too | Apr 13 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Get rid of them | Apr 13 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Nuke the hate ;-) | Apr 13 00:25 |
| nice | Apr 13 00:25 | |
| DaemonFC | twitter: 1 person can't stop the stupidity that 305 MILLION put into place | Apr 13 00:26 |
| I know that but it does not keep me from being responsible. | Apr 13 00:26 | |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : most americans don't know anything about the world | Apr 13 00:27 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a fact | Apr 13 00:27 |
| most people don't know anything | Apr 13 00:27 | |
| _Hicham_ | the administration wants that | Apr 13 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_: And 99% of all opinions about Americans are just made up on the spot | Apr 13 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 13 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | people abroad just act like America is a person and that person can change after stopping on a dime | Apr 13 00:29 |
| tractor production is up 200% | Apr 13 00:29 | |
| DaemonFC | they forget that Nazi Germany was not a single person | Apr 13 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | it was that most of a nation had gone mad | Apr 13 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | and were pulling the unwilling along in tow | Apr 13 00:29 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : I am not saying that America is one person | Apr 13 00:29 |
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| _Hicham_ | but most Americans don't care about what is going on in the world | Apr 13 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | it's fairly ignorant to just say that everyone here is responsible for everything | Apr 13 00:30 |
| _Hicham_ | I didn't say that | Apr 13 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't say that everyone in Iran is responsible for the Iranian regime | Apr 13 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | most of them go along with it for fear of retribution | Apr 13 00:30 |
| _Hicham_ | no one can say that | Apr 13 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | it's how a minority rules, when every candidate of every party is the same thing | Apr 13 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | but they can say they were fairly elected | Apr 13 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | so you can feel less cheated | Apr 13 00:31 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no fair elections | Apr 13 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 13 00:31 |
| _Hicham_ | fair elections exists only in computer science | Apr 13 00:32 |
| _Hicham_ | in distributed systems | Apr 13 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | I kind of like how Ubuntu overthrew Debian's messed up system claiming it stifled development | Apr 13 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | then set up something about like what they were complaining of in only 5 short years | Apr 13 00:34 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Ubuntu didn't do anything | Apr 13 00:34 |
| _Hicham_ | they did marketing, yes | Apr 13 00:34 |
| _Hicham_ | but on technical side, there was no major improvements | Apr 13 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | they've made changes in order to be able to better market it as having the feel and features you'd expect in a modern system | Apr 13 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | and there's still a few things it does better | Apr 13 00:35 |
| _Hicham_ | like for example? | Apr 13 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | but overall, they've become another unmovable project | Apr 13 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | Well for one, you can use newer software without risking really awful bugs that typically get into Sid | Apr 13 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | Debian still doesn't use Upstart | Apr 13 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | Debian offers no official support for it if you need that | Apr 13 00:36 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Upstart isn't that great | Apr 13 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | Fedora is using it | Apr 13 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva 2010 will | Apr 13 00:37 |
| schestowitz | twitter: "I know that but it does not keep me from being responsible." | Apr 13 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Exactly | Apr 13 00:37 |
| schestowitz | There is no moral value in regretting something that happened | Apr 13 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | DeamonFC : Progeny offers official support for Debian | Apr 13 00:37 |
| schestowitz | The responsibility is to act upon something to fix while you can | Apr 13 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : I was an Ubuntu user for more than 3 years | Apr 13 00:38 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: progenty hasn't existed since 2007 iirc | Apr 13 00:39 |
| schestowitz | *Progeny | Apr 13 00:39 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : it is not difficult to get commercial support for Debian | Apr 13 00:39 |
| _Hicham_ | Progeny was just an example | Apr 13 00:40 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: skip to 30:00 < http://www.youtube.com/watch... > About media deceiving people | Apr 13 00:40 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu used to have a supported aptitude upgrade path | Apr 13 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Chalmers Johnson is brilliant | Apr 13 00:40 |
| DaemonFC | to get a Debian system to turn into an Ubuntu system | Apr 13 00:40 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : to lock u in | Apr 13 00:40 |
| _Hicham_ | as if they were doing of their own | Apr 13 00:41 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is basically a bunch of ex-debian devs who weren't going well inside the community | Apr 13 00:41 |
| _Hicham_ | Shuttleworth is an ex debian dev | Apr 13 00:42 |
| _Hicham_ | debian model is more robust than ubuntu's | Apr 13 00:42 |
| _Hicham_ | especially for corporate entities | Apr 13 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | plus Ubuntu suffers from big stability issues | Apr 13 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | take for example, Ubuntu 8.04, they shipped a beta firefox in it | Apr 13 00:44 |
| _Hicham_ | and it is supposted to be long term supported | Apr 13 00:44 |
| _Hicham_ | and I am not that Ubuntu is bad, it is a great distro | Apr 13 00:46 |
| DaemonFC | because as soon as you get an update....it is Firefox 3.0.8 | Apr 13 00:46 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 13 00:46 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox 2 was too old and behind Firefox 3 to even want to mess with | Apr 13 00:46 |
| DaemonFC | even if that meant shipping with a beta | Apr 13 00:46 |
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| _Hicham_ | do u remember this beta's problems? | Apr 13 00:48 |
| _Hicham_ | it still had the horrible fsync problem | Apr 13 00:48 |
| DaemonFC | still does | Apr 13 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | not that bad | Apr 13 00:50 |
| DaemonFC | why nitpick about that though when KDE and GNOME use tons of little settings files | Apr 13 00:50 |
| DaemonFC | that are constantly being written to | Apr 13 00:50 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 13 00:50 |
| DaemonFC | that's just begging for data loss if the system goes down suddenly | Apr 13 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | GNOME uses gconf | Apr 13 00:52 |
| _Hicham_ | and KDE uses kconf | Apr 13 00:52 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a Windows Registry implementation in Linux | Apr 13 00:52 |
| DaemonFC | no | Apr 13 00:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's a front end to the various scattered files in ~/.gnome | Apr 13 00:54 |
| DaemonFC | or ~/.kde | Apr 13 00:54 |
| _Hicham_ | and what is the difference then? | Apr 13 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows uses hive files in system32 | Apr 13 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | they are scattered in a folder in system32 | Apr 13 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | so what is the difference? | Apr 13 00:56 |
| _Hicham_ | xml vs hive files? | Apr 13 00:56 |
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| MinceR | the difference is that config files are human-readable, editable and more resistant to damage | Apr 13 01:14 |
| MinceR | also, file system access controls work on them | Apr 13 01:15 |
| MinceR | and they can be managed with scripts, version controlled, etc. | Apr 13 01:15 |
| schestowitz | gn | Apr 13 01:16 |
| MinceR | o/ | Apr 13 01:35 |
| unlike the Windows registry, a broken config file won't keep your computer from booting and you can generate a new one easily. | Apr 13 01:47 | |
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| DaemonFC | I've never lost any data with XFS when the system went down with no warning, but I lost several hundred megs with Ext4 when I had jsut downloaded some kernel patches and had un-tarred some kernel source | Apr 13 01:50 |
| DaemonFC | it was so corrupt I had to delete all of it and start over, and it somehow took out some of my GNOME settings too | Apr 13 01:50 |
| silentivm | I never had data loss with either Ext3, Ext4, ReiserFS or XFS | Apr 13 01:52 |
| DaemonFC | Reiser and Ext4 were the only problematic ones I've seen | Apr 13 01:53 |
| DaemonFC | Ext3 and XFS are at least fairly recoverable | Apr 13 01:53 |
| silentivm | the only FS I've had data loss with was FAT32, but it doesn't count | Apr 13 01:53 |
| MinceR | gn | Apr 13 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | FAT32 kept a backup allocation table | Apr 13 01:54 |
| silentivm | gn | Apr 13 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | Scandisk could restore it if needed | Apr 13 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | gn | Apr 13 01:54 |
| silentivm | DaemonFC, ... which also got corrupted in my case | Apr 13 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 13 01:54 |
| silentivm | it was when I still bothered with Windows, this was a long time ago | Apr 13 01:54 |
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| DaemonFC | Windows 9x blue screened for far more reasons than NT does | Apr 13 01:56 |
| silentivm | exactly | Apr 13 01:56 |
| DaemonFC | in 9x it was expected that you would get them often | Apr 13 01:56 |
| DaemonFC | in NT it's really something serious | Apr 13 01:56 |
| silentivm | yep | Apr 13 01:56 |
| DaemonFC | the way I remember 9x was that you'd get at least a blue screen every day, sometimes two | Apr 13 01:57 |
| DaemonFC | I've seen a handful between NT through Vista | Apr 13 01:57 |
| silentivm | so did I | Apr 13 01:57 |
| DaemonFC | and MANY on 7 | Apr 13 01:57 |
| DaemonFC | that's why Office has automatic backups | Apr 13 01:58 |
| silentivm | yep | Apr 13 01:58 |
| DaemonFC | because that way when 98 BSOD'd you'd "only" lose 10 minutes of work and not hours | Apr 13 01:58 |
| silentivm | if nothing was corrupted because of the crash, then yes | Apr 13 01:59 |
| silentivm | otherwise... | Apr 13 01:59 |
| DaemonFC | but this "feature" itself would freeze Office every ten minutes and make you lose your train of thought B-) | Apr 13 01:59 |
| silentivm | :D | Apr 13 01:59 |
| DaemonFC | probably explains most of the documents written around that era in MS Office | Apr 13 01:59 |
| silentivm | :) | Apr 13 01:59 |
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| twitter1 | :) | Apr 13 02:27 |
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| twitter1 | hmph, W32 virus hits US hospitals at U of Utah http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-1... | Apr 13 03:05 |
| twitter1 | conficker continues to break people dumb enough to use windoze. | Apr 13 03:05 |
| twitter1 | " Patient records have not been touched, Nelson said. IT cut off Net access for up to six hours on Friday in order to isolate the virus, the AP reported." Yeah, right. | Apr 13 03:06 |
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| DaemonFC | DaemonFC> he uses Windows...like he knows what Tab Complete is. You may as well have asked him how the warp core is functioning in his 1988 Geo Metro. | Apr 13 03:06 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 13 03:06 |
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| amarsh04 | oiaohm and schestowitz, I'm way behind the in the scroll-back but my non-it university student step-daughter alerted me to the fact that her uni had removed OOo: http://www.adelaide.edu.au/its/proje... | Apr 13 06:30 |
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| schestowitz | ACTA leaked: http://88.80.13.160.nyud.net/leak/ac... | Apr 13 07:29 |
| schestowitz | PJ has turned the point I sent to her into an article: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s... | Apr 13 08:01 |
| schestowitz | Labour wants free labour (watch 'glamour' photo of Brown): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk... | Apr 13 08:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/... "If the UK is really not becoming a police state, then the police must demonstrate their independence of the government today by immediately arresting Damian McBride, Charlie Whelan and Tom Watson for the crime of misconduct in public office. " | Apr 13 08:25 |
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| zer0c00l | The BJP’s awkward embrace of Free Software: http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/10/stori... | Apr 13 08:49 |
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| oiaohm | amarsh04: Firefox 2.0.0 << Kinda a little out of date on the auto deployment system. | Apr 13 08:55 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you've got to listen to the last 20 minutes of this: http://www.youtube.com/watc... | Apr 13 08:58 |
| oiaohm | Its happening to Microsoft as well schestowitz | Apr 13 09:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.soaw.org/ | Apr 13 09:05 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: well, it's part of the US | Apr 13 09:05 |
| schestowitz | The above URL is about the training by CIA of terrorists who overthrow governments. | Apr 13 09:06 |
| schestowitz | It's interesting that the CIA even organised interception of planes with American people to incite against leaders in South America | Apr 13 09:06 |
| oiaohm | Terrorists = shills in the business world. | Apr 13 09:07 |
| oiaohm | Both powered by myths. | Apr 13 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Turns out the UK had wealth prior to WW1 | Apr 13 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Apr 13 09:07 |
| schestowitz | 10% of GDP | Apr 13 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Now it's $3 trillion or so in debt | Apr 13 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | At least our new President is literate | Apr 13 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 13 09:08 |
| schestowitz | I think Bush was faking. So they said... even the accent | Apr 13 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... | Apr 13 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | "Well they may not eat babies, but they ain't too far off, they'll euthanize your grandma just cause she has a cough, so stay away from Canada and you'll be doin' well, but if you don't you'll see the Numa Numa guy in Hell....They got the National Healthcare, it's such a dirty trick, they'll help you just as soon as Joseph Stalin says you're sick..."Cause there's no such thing as a good Canadian, good Canadian, good Canadian...." | Apr 13 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Apr 13 09:20 |
| schestowitz | Is that first one a reference to the Monster from Munster? | Apr 13 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | that guy is so funny, you should catch on if you've watched his other stuff that it's satire, so don't get too mad | Apr 13 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | huh? | Apr 13 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I figured that | Apr 13 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Maybe offensive to some people, not only those whom he speaks about but also that whom he impoersonates | Apr 13 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | I follow that stuff and Shelley The Republican | Apr 13 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | oh at least the Liberals have a sense of humor B-) | Apr 13 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I guess it doesn't take much effort to lampoon organizations that almost parody themselves, but it's still funny sometimes | Apr 13 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I guess I'm just the product of watching too much news as a child | Apr 13 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | I have a high tolerance for BS now | Apr 13 09:27 |
| schestowitz | There is no 'News' | Apr 13 09:28 |
| schestowitz | The news is not called news | Apr 13 09:28 |
| schestowitz | Money is made by the press by selling a line, as they say in Russia | Apr 13 09:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I ended up emailing our library complaining about the use of my tax dollars | Apr 13 09:29 |
| schestowitz | You want news? Seek commentary and interpretation from peers | Apr 13 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Not centralised authorities | Apr 13 09:29 |
| schestowitz | They are not lying | Apr 13 09:29 |
| schestowitz | They are lying by SELECTINO | Apr 13 09:29 |
| DaemonFC | to create a website optimized for Internet Explorer and which lets you "borrow" audio books | Apr 13 09:29 |
| DaemonFC | in DRM'd WMA | Apr 13 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Like evidence they allow journalists to witness (the pool) | Apr 13 09:29 |
| schestowitz | I am writing about the ACTA at the moment | Apr 13 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Obama is being a wuss... not allowing people to see it | Apr 13 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | oh yeah, the Canadians are bending over for the recording industry | Apr 13 09:30 |
| DaemonFC | they make anything we do look positively awesome | Apr 13 09:30 |
| schestowitz | It's not MAFIAA | Apr 13 09:30 |
| schestowitz | It's also patents | Apr 13 09:30 |
| schestowitz | ACTA is very ugly | Apr 13 09:30 |
| schestowitz | It's like restrating the IP law | Apr 13 09:31 |
| schestowitz | From scratch | Apr 13 09:31 |
| schestowitz | Only people are not involved in it | Apr 13 09:31 |
| schestowitz | Just corporations like Oracle and Warner | Apr 13 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | isn't ACTA that Canadian DMCA on Steroids? | Apr 13 09:31 |
| schestowitz | I don't think so | Apr 13 09:31 |
| schestowitz | It's a lot broader | Apr 13 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | oh, it's WTO bullshit | Apr 13 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | wonderful | Apr 13 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the WTO is basically a legalized conglomerate of international crime syndicates | Apr 13 09:32 |
| schestowitz | WIPO? | Apr 13 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | rewriting laws of various "member countries" without approval by that government in the whole | Apr 13 09:33 |
| schestowitz | Yes, they are not confined by law | Apr 13 09:33 |
| schestowitz | Like the Hague | Apr 13 09:33 |
| schestowitz | Operating on the assumptions that its creators cannot be held accountable. | Apr 13 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | The WTO has been a scourge on US sovereignty | Apr 13 09:34 |
| schestowitz | People are never taught to cherish a constitution | Apr 13 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | makes me wonder what the Clintons and that Congress got bribed with to pass it | Apr 13 09:34 |
| schestowitz | To make matters worse, they are not even familiar with it | Apr 13 09:34 |
| schestowitz | Or Magna Carta here. | Apr 13 09:34 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Clinton did NAFTA | Apr 13 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | so much of this globalization bullshit got fast tracked under Clinton | Apr 13 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Huge outrage it deserved, BUT... | Apr 13 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | that it's surreal | Apr 13 09:35 |
| schestowitz | People should not know about the crimes... it leads to unrest :-) | Apr 13 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Well, they have to figure out how to pay the debt over time | Apr 13 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Otherwise people will be out of the streets | Apr 13 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | meh, power is money, and once a nation signs over its authority to make and control currency | Apr 13 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Lenders are from places like Japan and China | Apr 13 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | it no longer rules | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | the bank does | Apr 13 09:36 |
| schestowitz | Wait until nations start dropping the dollar | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | that's what happened in the UK | Apr 13 09:36 |
| schestowitz | /that/ would be the collapse of Wall Street, not Oct/Sep 2008 | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | took over 100 years to have happen here | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | but it happened | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | 1913 | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | the Federal Reserve and the Federal Income Tax | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | and the IRS | Apr 13 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't matter, it won't be them doing it | Apr 13 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | it will be their Central Bank | Apr 13 09:37 |
| DaemonFC | about every semi-modern country has made their financial system a semi-autonomous system | Apr 13 09:38 |
| DaemonFC | dollars aren't real, pounds aren't real, Euros are not real | Apr 13 09:38 |
| DaemonFC | they are just promissory notes | Apr 13 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | counterfeited out of thin air | Apr 13 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | it's funny how economics work considering that money is imaginary and it's just buying and selling of debt which in turn represents slavery at some point | Apr 13 09:40 |
| DaemonFC | the bottom rungs of society, the people making minimum wages are the ones who are enslaved, and the top 10% control over 60% of the "money" which represents how much slavery they can demand | Apr 13 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The idea of intellectual property is just a plug-in for the idea of money | Apr 13 09:42 |
| DaemonFC | you owe me someone elses real labor or goods for something intangible that the law says I have a right to grant you | Apr 13 09:42 |
| DaemonFC | so money and Imaginary Property are both the inevitable result of a fiat currency system | Apr 13 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | because the two are not all that dissimilar | Apr 13 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | now the WTO and so-called free trade just make the process apply internationally, and then the bank cartels and the patent trolls can all prey on each others pool of slave labor | Apr 13 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's really much more efficient that way | Apr 13 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Apr 13 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: And don't even get me started on the "Fractional Reserve System" part of Modern Money Mechanics | Apr 13 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | I assume it works the same in your area of the world, since you jsut reside in a semi-autonomous region of the "international community" | Apr 13 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Apr 13 09:46 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: catching up | Apr 13 09:48 |
| schestowitz | >dollars aren't real, pounds aren't real, Euros are not real | Apr 13 09:48 |
| schestowitz | Money is symbolic | Apr 13 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: For what it's worth, I can see several parts of ACTA that blatantly violate the United States Constitution | Apr 13 09:48 |
| schestowitz | It represents ownership of real asets | Apr 13 09:48 |
| *ushimitsudoki (n=ushimits@p1050-ipad13yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 13 09:49 | |
| DaemonFC | mostly the 4th Amendment | Apr 13 09:49 |
| schestowitz | Like a note from your mom saying you deserve a lump of gold | Apr 13 09:49 |
| schestowitz | The issue comes about when you cannot redeem this coupon | Apr 13 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | oh, how many of those do I need to buy your car? | Apr 13 09:49 |
| *DaemonFC calls his mom | Apr 13 09:49 | |
| schestowitz | Of your 401k pension if declared void overnight | Apr 13 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 13 09:49 |
| schestowitz | "For what it's worth, I can see several parts of ACTA that blatantly violate the United States Constitution" | Apr 13 09:50 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: constiution schmostiution. | Apr 13 09:50 |
| schestowitz | They already mocked it before | Apr 13 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | ISP cooperation / The leaked document includes a provision to force Internet Service Providers (ISPs) to provide information about suspected copyright infringers without a warrant, making it easier for the record industry to sue music file sharers and for officials to shut down non-commercial BitTorrent websites such as The Pirate Bay. | Apr 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz | Laws passed prior to that without resistance from people (or FOX) | Apr 13 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | Fourth Amendment / The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. | Apr 13 09:51 |
| schestowitz | How can one fight it? | Apr 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz | Well, how does one issue a veto in democracies? | Apr 13 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | in the court system | Apr 13 09:52 |
| DaemonFC | the court can strike any law that goes against the constitution | Apr 13 09:52 |
| schestowitz | Under current laws Bush can call you a "bad guy" if he doesn't like you and send you to North Carolina to some facility and throw away the key | Apr 13 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | Bush can't do anything ;) | Apr 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz | That in itself, I believe, contradicts your constitution | Apr 13 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | Bush can sign books | Apr 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz | In the past you needed evidence | Apr 13 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | and open a library | Apr 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall the latin phrase it's called | Apr 13 09:53 |
| DaemonFC | that's what former presidents usually do ;) | Apr 13 09:53 |
| schestowitz | Ad Hobrus or something... | Apr 13 09:54 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: And no | Apr 13 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | the argument was if you were an "enemy combatant" "captured on foreign soil" they argued that they could hold you in a prison that was not on "US territory" and technically not violate the constitution | Apr 13 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | it was a flimsly argument | Apr 13 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | *flimsy | Apr 13 09:55 |
| DaemonFC | now since I am neither an enemy combatant, or on foreign soil, they would have to abduct me from US soil and their flimsy argument falls apart | Apr 13 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | I suppose you could be cynical and say "They could make another excuse" | Apr 13 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | but so far that hasn't happened | Apr 13 09:56 |
| DaemonFC | *and* the Supreme Court order stands | Apr 13 09:57 |
| DaemonFC | which nullified Bush's argument that detainees do not have Habeas Corpus rights | Apr 13 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | and Obama has signed an Executive Order to cease all tribunals while they decide who to try in civilian courts | Apr 13 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | with civilian jurors | Apr 13 09:58 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, well... that's the characteristic of a state going out of control | Apr 13 09:58 |
| DaemonFC | so I'm hopeful that the Bush era is over with | Apr 13 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | and at least mostly buried | Apr 13 09:59 |
| schestowitz | They need to prosecute him | Apr 13 09:59 |
| schestowitz | But he was the ring leader, so the same people who needed to be prosecuted are STILL in charge | Apr 13 09:59 |
| schestowitz | Some of those in the Pentagn | Apr 13 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | Well, right now I think they're trying to unfuck what he and his guys did over the last 8 years | Apr 13 09:59 |
| schestowitz | You never get to elect those. | Apr 13 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | and they did a lot of nasty shit | Apr 13 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | and set a lot of bad precedents | Apr 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Take Northern Alliance or whatever it's called | Apr 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz | In essense, orders are sent without a democracy out of Arlington. | Apr 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Not the White House. | Apr 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz | For 'your security' | Apr 13 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | well, I'd say that I'd rather see this government trying to untangle Bush's mess | Apr 13 10:00 |
| DaemonFC | than a President McCain trying to dig us deeper :) | Apr 13 10:00 |
| schestowitz | But MaCain is a Maverick! :-) | Apr 13 10:01 |
| schestowitz | *McCain | Apr 13 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | I've only ever voted cause of Bush | Apr 13 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | he alone has ruined me on the idea of ever voting for anyone in his party, ever | Apr 13 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | McCain's biggest boost came from the borderline Ku Klux Klan and Neo-Nazi rallies they held | Apr 13 10:02 |
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| DaemonFC | Christianity has always been within arms reach of racist and homophobic and anti-semitic militant groups | Apr 13 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | so it doesn't surprise me that a lot of their factions were throwing in with McCain | Apr 13 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: They're what Joseph Stalin would have referred to as "useful idiots" | Apr 13 10:05 |
| DaemonFC | the kind that get you into power | Apr 13 10:05 |
| DaemonFC | you don't necessarily agree with their radical thinking, but you pretend to to get their support | Apr 13 10:06 |
| DaemonFC | I think we were heading to a fascist state that no longer would even try to pretend to be anything else | Apr 13 10:07 |
| DaemonFC | and we came that close | Apr 13 10:07 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: where is information received? | Apr 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz | That's the key | Apr 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz | You shape a person's behaviour (output) through dis/information (input) | Apr 13 10:08 |
| schestowitz | Murdoch uses the network to promote a party line | Apr 13 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | The same kind of people that threw in with Hitler and the Nazis (at the risk of Godwins Law) are the same types you saw at the McCain rallies | Apr 13 10:08 |