06.25.21

Annotated Transcript of Andrew Lee (Freenode) Interview With Lode Ray Dio

Posted in Free/Libre Software, Interview at 9:38 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

LRHB
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Summary: The choice of words (and platform) of Andrew Lee seems to have harmed the image of Freenode; we examine what was said on the bizarre show of Lode Ray Dio of GNAA infamy

WE HAVE been using Freenode happily for 13.5 years. Recently, however, a great deal of turbulence started to become apparent. We heard about it in April and we studied what was going on. Our sole objective was to restore stability and avert disaster. That alone was our motivation since the start of May. A lot of coding capacity was wasted due to turbulence and communication between people has definitely been curtailed by a diaspora (not everyone moved to the same network/protocol; not many stayed in Freenode, either).

“Our sole objective was to restore stability and avert disaster.”A lot has happened since late May — more so the start of June — and it’s getting difficult to defend what Freenode has done. The turning point was probably mass banning and confiscation of longstanding channels. The following interview, which is quite new, is rather illuminating. We’re adding some commentary to the transcript below because the text is long, so some highlights may be needed (not in-place/in-line, even if mildly edited).

L: Oh shit. Damn Andrew, calling awful early. Andrew Lee right there?
Andrew Lee: Hey, this l0de?
L: This l0de radio. The nation’s number one negro. Who do I have on the line right here, Andrew Lee? The current owner of Freenode, uh, Private Internet Access, the crown prince of how do you say it, it’s Joseon or Hoseon [sic]…
Andrew Lee: Joseon, Joseon!
L: Joseon. Joseon, Korea. This is our interview for the night right here. I wanna chat with Andrew about the present, past and future of the Freenode IRC network. So for those of you who don’t know, for the longest time, Freenode has been utterly the scourge of IRC. One of the – before Andrew came along, it was one of the worst places that you could chat. It was just like a miserable hell pit full of operator abuse, people stealing your channels, nerds telling you what you couldn’t talk about; it was just wretched. And that’s all gonna change, hopefully, thanks to Andrew. Andrew, thank you for coming on the broadcast right here, how you doing tonight?

Freenode is a network dedicated mostly to Free (as in freedom) software, as its name suggests. It does not prohibit some politics on the side, but it’s not devoted to racist ramblings and rhetoric like “nation’s number one negro” (as above). It’s a bit ironic that people with vulgar rhetoric complain that Freenode was “one of the worst places that you could chat.” Chat about what? Technology?

On we go:

Andrew Lee: Pretty good, thanks for having us l0de.

As if “nation’s number one negro” (his own words) giving a platform to new Freenode management is some kind of privilege…

L: Yeah, by all means-
Andrew Lee: You got uh, you also have uh, Dooney Battle on this line, and also Lil Pump as well.
L: Alright, Lil Pump and Dooney Battle right here. Lil Pump-
P: Yo, yo
L: -Hell yeah. We’re on the hip-hop Discord right now where I was once a time a moderator right there. So uh, yeah, some hip-hop heads coming through as well. Alright so, the first question that I have, um, and this is the number one thing that when I was doing my research, everybody wanted to know. Um, how much did you buy Freenode for, Andrew Lee?
Andrew Lee: Aww man, you know honestly I can’t tell you, it’s an undisclosed amount, but you know, it was pocket change.

I spoke to Lee. He does not speak about his finances, hardly even in private. We’ll come to that in a moment.

L: I- I have telling everybody that it was $65 in scratch-off lottery tickets, paid in person at Christel’s trailer. Is that pretty close to the mark?

So the host Lee was so thankful for is now attacking the person who gave Lee control of the site/network.

Andrew Lee: Almost, almost.
L: Alright, so-
??: [unintelligible]

Lee should have defended Christel. It’s a missed opportunity to do the right thing.

L: I was actually surprised that you didn’t charge them money to take Freenode off of their hands, uh, but just the same. Fuck it. Alright so, number two question, did you have to meet Christel in person? And if so, how did you get the smell out of your clothes?
??: [laughs]
Andrew Lee: Uh, you know I later did meet her in person, but not, not for this.

Those personal attacks have earned much scorn (I saw discussions about it), especially the unwillingness to stand up and defend Christel. When I spoke to Lee last month he said we should generally respect Freenode staff for all the work we did. Why not use this opportunity to defend Christel? Why even go on a show that viciously attacks her like this?

L: I’m sorry you had to go through that. I’ll give you the number of a trauma center after the show right here. Oh, people are in the chat are not liking this, they’re saying, “just fuckin’ say the amount you pussy.” That’s eraser scrolling it up the screen right there. Just gotta relay, you know, the public wants to know the price of Freenode. Alright, so uh, so far there’s been some turbulence. Uh, I guess, any objective observer would have to describe the transition period as batshit insane, I think would have to be the sum of it right there. And uh, right now, the network is in a state of chaos. How did we get here? Like, what’s going on?

From my understanding, and based on publicly available documents, a lot of the supposed wealth is actually debt (corporate and personal). While it’s largely unclear what the salient parts of the takeover actually were (I saw speculations), it probably wasn’t much. If the number was revealed, it would not be flattering to Lee.

Andrew Lee: You know as you, as you aptly mentioned, um, it was a lot of chaos going on. On Freenode for years, man, it was toxic. You know what I’m saying?-
L: [unintelligible]
Andrew Lee: It was toxic, you know what I mean? Like a swamp.
P: Ay you’re a pussy.
L: I agree 100%
P: Pussy there.
L: Alright motherfucker, come at me. Andrew, I wanna hear the rest, what’s going on here?

I’ve been close to people in positions of governance at Freenode (for years) and they knew for quite a while about Lee being ‘in the shadows’. There was no “chaos”, however, so it’s most likely just a self-serving false narrative. As if someone ‘saved’ Freenode…

Andrew Lee: Shit so, you know what, what happened was uh, these people were just crazy mad, you know what I mean? Like, they started, uh, you know, using other people’s work. And kinda like, creating organizations. And they got really big, and, you know, a few people got control of these organizations, and started speaking on behalf of all the people, and it’s just super toxic, you know what I mean?

That’s rather vague, but one can imagine which organisations are alluded to.

L: Alright, so, your big deal here was essentially these freenode fucking pretenders were coming through and acting like they were in charge of, like, these entire organizations, uh, these big projects that, like, some of these open source projects literally you’ll have five or six different nerds wasting all their time writing spaghetti code for these projects that never works in any case. And so you’re, you’re saying like one big fat nerd would take the credit for the work of the other four or five sweaty nerds.

Badmouthing people who ran Freenode (literally kept it going, even as unpaid volunteers) and actually did real work isn’t going to earn much sympathy, is it? This is already turning out to be somewhat of a train wreck interview, wherein people are being attacked viciously, without challenge…

P: Look bro, I don’t go time for this soft-ass shit. Lee run this shit, fuck y’all, bye.
L: Alright, penis pump! Fuck outta here, was that Lil Pump?
Andrew Lee: Yea.
L: Yo, we got rappers that will battle fucking Lil Pump, no shit, right there. People who will put him on his ass. So I just wanna throw it down, right there. My boy vapor, my boy eraser, they’ll tear him apart and leave him on blocks in the streets of fucking Philly. Mmm, damn. So he, he made the right decision cowering the fuck out of here, cause these IRC rappers do not play around. Right, little pimp. Alright so uh, so yeah, essentially um, you saw an issue with misattribution and where people would just basically steal all the credit for these fucking projects just because they sat in a fucking IRC channel and pretended that they were in charge. That’s a side of the story that I haven’t really heard before.

They never claimed to be in charge. I was never put in a position like this (in over 13 years on the network). This is false. If they confronted people who say things like “fucking Lil Pump” on the Freenode network (a technical network), there’s a reason for it…

Andrew Lee: Yeah, it’s pretty crazy man, like, you know you kinda see this in like, uh, you know like Twitter, you know what I’m talking about? Platforms like that. They just try to, like, act like they know what they’re talking about, you know what I’m saying, but they don’t.

Very vague.

L: Mhm, mhm, okay so. Nerds, faking the funk, uh, not knowing what they’re talking about. Let’s talk a little bit about some of the staff members of the former Freenode. So they attempted to create a new network called Liberia [sic], right, where they’re all, all these traitors have run off to to cower.
P: Bruh, what the fuck is that?
L: Yeah it’s fucked up man. They made this network called Liberia. They typoed it when they were creating the network, and so now it’s Libera or some horseshit like that. Um, they can’t get anything right. So they created this fucking network to hide on. And all these open source projects moved there, especially after you banned all of their channels and, like, kicked everybody out there. So, uh, I have to ask, were you trying to get rid of all the open source people from freenode?
Andrew Lee: Just the toxic ones, you know what I mean? Just like, uh, I mean you know I can’t- I can’t say what I want to say on live radio, you know what I’m trying to say!

Enough was already said (“Bruh, what the fuck is that?”). This is not helpful at all…

L: No, why not? Nah, this is the place where you can air all of your grievances and let it fucking hang out, to tell you the truth. I don’t want you to feel constrained here because honestly there are probably, what, like 40 people watching the stream right here? Um, and it’s important I think that live radio is a medium where you can really get across your true self. Alright, so-
Andrew Lee: Yeah, I mean so it’s kinda sad, you know, like, ’cause a lot of the people who, you know, are kind of leading the Liberia movement, they’ve- they’ve had tough lives, you know what I mean, and so they’re just angry and- and you know they want everyone to feel the same thing that they’re feeling. And so they’re trying to push their hate and toxic culture, like, on everyone, and it’s kinda fucked up, cause honestly everyone else is just trying to like, you know, go and- go on about their day, you know. Make some code, talk to people, just do shit, you know what I mean?

That’s a ramble and it’s barely coherent. I didn’t sense “hate and toxic culture” from the people who ran Freenode. This seems like projection tactics.

L: I gotta tell you, like um, so, just an example of what you’re fucking talking about here. There’s a channel, we used to have a channel, #freenode, on Liberia Chat, where people could talk about like the whole process of what’s going on in Freenode, and laugh at some of the boners that were pulled. And uh, the fucking corrupt staff shut that thing down. They’re like, “this is off topic,” you know, “you’re not an official software pot, bluhbluhbluhbluhblah [sic].” You know, the shit that they like to do. So then, we make a new channel, ##freenode, and today they were threatening to shut that one down. They’re like, “uhh I feel like this is a liability to the network,” you know like, “uhh this is not conducive to the environment.” Meanwhile there are a thousand fucking people in that channel that wanna talk about Freenode, and they’re talking about it all day long. And these operators feel like they can stifle the conversation, and they can just mute everybody when they feel like it. They feel like they get to direct how we can talk. Right? And to me, that’s the most poisonous thing that an IRC operator could possibly do: instruct their users in what are accepted topics and so forth. It’s horseshit. Yeah, sorry to- sorry to curse there, but um, the uh, yeah they really are a lot there. Um, do you feel that medication that these people are taking might play a factor in some of their decisions?
Andrew Lee: You know I don’t really know man, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe a doctor needs to prescribe something, but I don’t know.

Implying Freenode staffers were mentally ill? How is that going to help?

L: Alright so, Andrew, you have a, uh, sort of a checkered past, from what I’ve heard. And, uh, word on the street is that you are a fan of drug legalization. Is this true or can you not comment, or whatever?
Andrew Lee: You know I’m not really like, uh, fan of, uh, you know, I’m not trying to like push something on other people but, you know, people have a choice what they want to put in their body as long as they’re not harming anyone else.
L: Alright, I’m with it, I’m with it. Alright, um, but yeah, there have been some pretty legendary court filings, where I believe you were accused of snuffling up a fucking mountain of cocaine and, uh, running a brothel, and other- other pimp type activities. Do you wanna comment on that at all, or were those just unfounded allegations?

Andrew Lee: Cartel, brother.
L: The cartel? So you were running a cartel essentially?
Andrew Lee: Shit.
L: That’s pretty fucking wild right there. Not a lot of people will just straight up admit to running a cartel on the radio. You’re a brave man Andrew Lee. Alright…
Andrew Lee: Very brave.

This isn’t going to help either.

L: Let me get done sucking your dick right there. So lets talk about the future of Freenode, right? Right now Freenode is in this state of flux, and there are a lot of users that can’t get on. You banned my own bouncer, ircclown [sic] which I’ve been using for many years right there and user counts are like way down at the moment. I would say that chat activity is in a lull on Freenode and there’s a danger people worry that you won’t recapture the momentum needed to sustain an IRC network. What are your plans for Freenode? What can we tell people is gonna happen on the network, and do you plan to, for instance, unban ircclown, re-stablish a Matrix bridge, or any of those?
Andrew Lee: So as relates to Freenode, the Freenode Autonomous Zone rather, you know we have a lot of fans, I mean, it’s a little bit out of scope of this call, but, you know, it’s all about freedom and self-sovereignty.

This has not been the case for a number of weeks. To attain self-sovereignty one needs to self-host.

L: Self-sovereignty?
Andrew Lee: Er, what was the other question?
L: Well, like, my main question here is, I’ve been personally impacted because I use ircclown to do my radio show. It’s this terrible bouncer that I and other people have been saddled with for years, and we can’t get on Freenode right now. It’s banned off of Freenode for what can really only be described as a personal beef between you and jwheare. jwheare dissed you on Twitter and you banned the entirety of ircclown as a result of it, which to me is funny, but as a user of ircclown now it’s a real pain in the ass for me to get on Freenode. Are you going to – would you be willing to commit to unbanning ircclown and instead getting in a rap beef with jwheare, the founder of ircclown?
Andrew Lee: Nah that’s, er, an eternal ban, you know what I mean?
L: It’s an eternal ban!?
Andrew Lee: [indistinct]
L: What the fuck?
Andrew Lee: I’m happy to, you know, have fun and do whatever, but yeah, and eternal ban is an eternal ban, you know what I mean.
L: An eternal ban!
Andrew Lee: It’s for. Ever.
L: What about a favour for your friend l0de radio? I can’t even fucking chat on your network because you’re in this beef with jwheare, and it’s not even a good beef. Why don’t you just drop a fucking heater on him and diss him in a song or whatever, because honestly, from the outside looking in, what I see is your users paying the price for something you and jwheare should have settled man to man, personally.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, I can see how it could appear to be some kind of personal beef or whatever…
L: It’s definitely a personal beef.
Andrew Lee: …but there’s…
L: I mean you can fucking level with me right here.
Andrew Lee: [indistinct]
L: You don’t like the guy. He dissed Freenode and said it was insecure.
Andrew Lee: Nah, nah, I just don’t like what he’s about, you know what I mean?
L: Yeah. No, I hear you. It’s fair to have a personal beef with this guy, but I take great umbrage when I and other users are getting fucked over, right there. And we’re definitely getting fucked over, so I’m not happy to hear that. Alright, so, a lot of people are wondering why do services keep going down on Freenode? And a lot of people are salty that they lost their nicknames that they had had for a [indistinct] many years.
Andrew Lee: Wait, was there a question?
L: Yeah, so, what’s your comment on all the people who got their nicks that they had lost for many years and so forth. A lot of them are really salty and bitching about it on Liberia [sic] 24-7. This has been the number – out of the things that you’ve done, more people are mad about losing their nicknames than almost anything else. So – if – like – for those who don’t, Freenode essentially swapped to a different ircd. They purged the nicknames database and everybody had to reregister their nicknames but the fucking nickserv registration was down for lengthy periods. A lot of nicknames got juped and so forth. People are mad about this. What can you tell them?

This is exactly what Freenode did under Lee.

Andrew Lee: Um… I mean, it is what it is. You know. Unfortunate, but it was kinda the only approach we could take to ending big FOSS and the toxic culture on Freenode, you know what I mean?

What is “big FOSS”? Is Free software now being painted with the same brush as monopolists?

L: laughs So it’s just like – fuck it – I guess the “deal with it nerds” is going to be the official comment right there. Alright. I can fucking deal with it right there. I had to whine like a bitch to network operators ‘cos somebody had juped me right there, so I can’t fucking complain. So yeah, sad to hear that part there and, like, not a lot of hope for the future. Let me ask you something, man to man, straight up. Are you just trying to destroy the network utterly because somebody on it made you mad?
Andrew Lee: Not at all. As a matter of fact, this is a reconstruction of the network. You know, sometimes things have so much debt from technology to social organizational debt to other things, and unfortunately Freenode was beyond repair. So, you know, we decided to refactor Freenode and here we are.

Well, this whole “refactor” has already eliminated about two thirds of the network’s users. And they are not coming back. Some have decided to abandon IRC completely.

L: Alright well I can definitely agree that it was beyond repair and that the corruption went super deep, and I’ll say, like, one of the great things that came out of this is all the operators that got like super angry about it. One: it was great that they were mad, and then two: it was great that they all left to make a new network so they could start over with the whole thing. What do you see the future as with Liberia? [sic] Will things ever get friendly, or are they eternal enemies the way your ban on ircclown [sic] is eternal?
Andrew Lee: Uh… I mean, I don’t really know what Liberia is doing. I’m not really paying too much attention to that. They’re more than welcome to use Freenode and many of them are, so it is what it is.
L: Okay. Will you ever – now you’re – because you’re in charge of the Freenode project, you could claim #freenode on Liberia chat as an official open source project and they would have to – they would have to grant you that channel. Would you be willing to start #freenode on Liberia chat as an outpost for people who want the Freenode style of free chatting on the Liberia network?
Andrew Lee: You know, if you’d like to help establish diplomatic relations between the Freenode Autonomous Zone and Liberia, happy to, uh, you know
L: Hell yeah.
Andrew Lee: …as an ambassador…
L: I would fucking love that.
Andrew Lee: …like form the embassy on Liberia.
L: Look at it. I’m getting, like, fucking diplomatic posts as a result of – this is fantastic right here. Yeah, I would absolutely love to do that. I have a lot of experience in dealing with the Freenode staff so I think I’m the perfect person to negotiate this whole thing. We got people linking their different channels that are on Freenode and Liberia and shit like this in the background, in the chat, and I’ve gotta tell you, from my perspective, this has been one of the greatest things to happen to IRC in the last year and a half. Even in this year big things went down. MTW got put in prison. So a lot of people are asking: would you be willing to link with Pissnet? This new distributed IRC network that has cropped up in the wake of this massive turbulence between Freenode and Liberia?
Andrew Lee: See that’s where people get it twisted, right? We’re Freenode, power to the people, right? People as in humans, right? They’re power to the _pee_ple, you know what I’m saying? Like, they’re [indistinct]
L: Alright, I guess that’s probably fucking fair right there. Well, I had to ask. Many people on Pissnet wanted to know if a link of dinks was imminent right there.

L: Let’s talk about hip-hop for a second. Who are you listening to right now, besides Lil Punk [sic] who pussied out on this fucking call?
Andrew Lee: Shit, ah, right now I’ve been just listening to the beat of the drum of war.
L: Oh shit.
Andrew Lee: Not really anything really in particular, you know what I’m saying?
L: That’s a really fucking politician [sic] question right – or, answer right there, Andrew Lee. You gotta put yourself out there man. Show people what you’re really all about right there. Alright, so, political questions…
Andrew Lee: I think I did by the way.
L: Say that again?
Andrew Lee: I think I did by the way.
L: Uhh… when I ask a man, “what are you listening to right now?” I wanna hear “yo I’m about that new Pimp Trick” or fucking “I got that CAS [sp?] n****”. That’s what I wanna hear.
Andrew Lee: Yeah I wasn’t being sarcastic. I was saying I’m literally just listening to the beat of the drums of war.
L: Alright, well, I’ll take that as it is right there. Alright, so, Freenode, right now. What can we expect – and you said you don’t want to talk about your long term plans – what can users expect in the next week or two is going to go on, on Freenode? How are you going to attract these new users up in there?
Andrew Lee: Yeah, so in the next week or two we’re gonna continue finding toxic channels and closing them down -
L: Oh hell yeah. So there’s a purge going on?

And this is the kind of thing that leads projects to leaving, proactively. This isn’t about self governance. In fact, the mass closure of channels, or confiscation, is what proved me wrong to have a presumption of innocence (about Lee’s motivations). I asked him about it in the #techrights (where he was lurking for weeks) and he could not rationalise it.

Andrew Lee: – k-lining – k-lining people. You know what I’m saying? Sometimes there’s people we need to not k-line but just maybe ban from channels or whatever. But after that’s all said and done we’re going to get our always-on IRC clients ready on Android and iOS. You know, you just connect and you’ve got push messaging, you know what I mean? It’s been some thirty-something years of IRC and nobody’s thought to advance this past some kind of, like, weird thing that nobody can understand how to use, so IRC’s dying. So we’re just bringing IRC back and, you know, people in Liberia and wherever – they can circle jerk, and, you know, their circles keep getting smaller. We’re bringing IRC to the community, to the masses and we’re – we’re for real, you know what I mean? This is about freedom and we’re pushing this, you know, if you can’t hear it.

This involved no consultation with people actually used Freenode (or IRC in general) for a very long time. IRC is attractive for its low memory footprint, widespread client support (scripts, tools, programs), not some phones with nagging notifications.

L: All right. Well, I can definitely see what you’re saying there. So, we’re looking into new IRC apps coming out? That’s that irc.com app, right? I think… it’s already on the app store, ain’t it?
Andrew Lee: Yeah, you can already get it on the app store. But the registration is disabled right now.
L: Okay. Gotcha.
Andrew Lee: But you can obviously just get on and register on NickServ.
L: Yeah, yeah. That’s what I essentially did. All right. So you’re trying to move people into a more mobile environment for their IRC chatting, and got these new apps coming out right there? Any new features on the apps that would… like the… because I’ve used the freenode BNC and I have to tell you I could not stay on it for very long. It went up and down pretty constantly. So, any new features that are on this app? Like, is it going to have inline images like Discord or fuckin’ friends list or any shit like that?
Andrew Lee: It has all that. You know, it might not sound like a feature to anyone who doesn’t use IRC, but this is the same level as Telegram or whatever in terms of UI and usability. And, for IRC, that’s an advancement, believe it or not.

There is already IRC bridging software for that. No need to turn Freenode into an “app”; this isn’t what Free software projects use the network for. It is not how they use it, either.

L: Yeah. Well, it’s an old, old protocol and for a while people were fucking around with like “ah, let’s make IRC 3.0”. These nerds can never agree on anything. They literally – this is one of the reasons why I’m excited that Freenode is getting wiped out. We’re at the point where, to save the protocol, unilateral decisions will need to be made, and people will have to burn some things down. I don’t know if you’re the chosen one or if it’s going to take a series of people doing this, but eventually something has to change because the platform is dying. (pause) We got a—
Andrew Lee: Yeah, yeah. You know, the Joseon empire…
L: Mmhmm.
Andrew Lee: You know, our treaty with the United States… it’s spelled “chosen”. C-H-O-S-E-N.
L: Yeah. (pause) That’s not… that’s not too bad. Yeah, what’s it like being a fuckin’ prince? Can you walk down the streets of Seoul and people are like “whoa, it’s the fuckin’ prince!” Just can’t walk a block without getting your dick sucked, or do people not give a shit in Korea?
Andrew Lee: I don’t really know. I’m on IRC… I’m a super IRC nerd, you know what I mean. I don’t really know what it looks like outside.
L: Mm. I think that’s fuckin’ fair. If you should ever gaze out your basement window and some pretty Korean girl is walking by, let me know. If she thinks you’re a prince, or if she’s like “eeh! Get away!” All right. So, you’ve had a lot of ventures before IRC. Can you comment at all on your – it sounds like – a few people have told me that you made a boatload of fucking money on Mt. Gox, before unfortunately all the shitcoins got stolen. What can you tell me about that?
Andrew Lee: Oh, no, that’s not true. I’m, like, super-poor, man.

OK…

L: Mm. Wait, so, you’re not incredibly wealthy? A lot of people think that you’re super wealthy. But as I’ve said the purchase price of Freenode was $65. What did you buy irc.com for? Was it like $6?
Andrew Lee: I don’t even remember. It was some nominal amount. Like, the domain, I mean? Yeah, it was probably a couple hundred thousand or something. I don’t know.
L: A couple hundred dollars or a couple hundred thousand?
Andrew Lee: A couple hundred thousand.
L: Uh. A couple hundred thousand dollars for irc.com. Jesus H. Q. Christ. That’s… pretty fuckin’ wild. All right. A lot of people are asking… Oh wow, a lot of people are saying you’re scared of jware. It’s scrolling up the chat right here. Damn. Usually people don’t put respect—
Andrew Lee: [mocking] Yeah, okay.
L: —on jware’s name. [laughing] All right. I’ll relay that one. jware. “IP addresses don’t matter” is his favorite quote right there. But walk us through a typical day when you’re not hearing the drums of war. Are you brushing your teeth with with Jägermeister? Is there cocaine everywhere? Girls draped all over you, as you chat furiously and code on IRC? What’s going on there?

Andrew Lee: [laughs] You know, I kind of just wake up, you know, and crawl out from under my desk, you know? Get on the chair, you know? See what’s going on on the computer, you know what I mean? Start trying to learn how to code. I got “hello world” done yesterday.
L: Oh shit. That’s a fucking giant accomplishment.
Andrew Lee: [indistinct]
L: I know a guy who runs a code academy.
Andrew Lee: Crazy mad shit.
L: Once you start getting it to, like, print out, you can put it on your wall, tape it to your refrigerator. You be gone, man. Start working with, like, that turtle moving around. Buh-buh-buh-buh-buh.
Andrew Lee: [laughs]
L: What’s something that you wish people understood about this whole process? You’re one of the more misunderstood figures in IRC right now and there’s a lot of hate going on for you. What’s something that you would say to all the haters that you have right now?
Andrew Lee: Uh… you know, like, this is funny. [laughs] You know what I’m saying? That’s really all I got to say about that. You know what I mean? Like, it’s been fun. It’s been a fun experience but, um, you know, it is what it is. You know what I mean? Like, these people are trying to, like, stifle prosperity. They’re stifling growth. They’re stifling FOSS, you know what I mean? Unfortunately it’s time for someone to come in and let them know who’s boss, you know what I mean?

Those rhetorics are authoritarian. And they put people off.

L: Damn. I mean, it’s unequivocal. You took over their network. You wrecked all their shit. You banned all their channels. You took away their nicknames. Do you fear for your life? Do you think that some deranged ex-Freenode staffer might ever come at you with, like, a knife or, like, some kind of speech about how you invaded their personal space or some shit like that?
Andrew Lee: I mean, my place is pretty heavily guarded, you know what I’m saying? Anyone is more than welcome to try.
L: Damn. Yeah, let’s get there. Are you a Second Amendment guy? Do you have firearms in your home?
Andrew Lee: I’m not really, like, anything, you know what I mean? I’m very apolitical, you know what I mean? Actually, to be honest, I don’t really believe in any of this politics. People should be able to do whatever they want to do as long as they don’t harm someone.
L: Mmm-hmm. So you’re not strapped is what you’re saying right here. Are you in America right now? It sounds like you’re out in California right now.
Andrew Lee: I could be.
L: [laughs] International man of mystery right there. Alright, so Freenode. I’m hearing a lot of libertarian influences on your thinking right there. Are you familiar with the sovereign citizen movement? Are these people going to be welcome on Freenode?
Andrew Lee: I don’t even know what that is, but if the title of the name is actually descriptive and not some BS like some BIG FOSS project might do, then, you know, obviously they’re welcome, ‘cos that’s what we’re doing. We’re giving sovereignty to everybody.

There’s no “BIG FOSS”. That seems to be conflating two polar opposites.

L: Alright, yeah. That definitely – it does seem like kind of a sov-cit movement right there, so I’m sure that they will start showing up in abundance right there. We should put the word out on Youtube that this is a paradise for sovereign citizens right there. People who are autonomous units. They don’t wanna hear what BIG FOSS has to say to them. They don’t wanna pay attention to operators. They just want to travel freely throughout the networks. It’s an inalienable right.
Andrew Lee: Exactly.
L: Hell yeah.
Andrew Lee: Exactly. The Internet belongs to the people. It belongs to freedom. You know what I’m saying?
L: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. So, again, to get to know you a little bit better, do you have any time to play video games? Or are you too busy?
Andrew Lee: Unfortunately the only videogame I’ve been playing recently is /KILL and /KLINE.
L: Damn. Yeah, it’s been a fucking brutal bloodbath. Can you estimate how many people you have killed since this all began?
Andrew Lee: Uh… you know, I mean, if you count, like, Freenode Classic, I wrote a script to kill all the servers at once, so, you know, that was pretty brutal.
L: [laughs] Pretty fucking ridiculous right there. Alright, when did you get your start on IRC? How long have you been chatting on internet relay chat?
Andrew Lee: Some time in the mid 90s.
L: Cool. Who were – what were some of the original chat networks were you on? What are some moments that you remember from the very start of IRC? Channels that you want to represent or anything?

Andrew Lee: You know, I’m like – what you’re seeing right now is like a super-reserved version of me. I’m trying to be as, like, whatever as possible. I can’t talk about anything of my previous IRC past ‘cos I don’t wanna, you know what I’m saying?
L: Wow. I mean, back in the day, I can tell you, I used to fuck with EFnet pretty heavily. Everybody knows I was in a bunch of different groups like Teens for Christ, GNAA and so forth. I’ve been involved with a group called Penis Pump for a little bit. I’m pretty public with what I’ve been there. But honestly I want to encourage you. I don’t think you’re ever going to win people’s respect on IRC by trying to be professional. We’re long past that. I think you’re at the point where you can start to be your true self, because I don’t think anybody’s opinion of you can get any lower, honestly.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, I mean, this is my true self. People’s opinions can absolutely get lower and it’s absolutely going to get lower…
L: Wait, wait, are you saying that we’re not even close to the bottom yet?
Andrew Lee: We just started.

This was over a week ago. Things have not improved since.

L: Ah. I’m loving every moment. So Gentoo96 in the chat says: “Can Andrew explain why the TOR service was removed?” Why are you doing that? Are you just trying to get rid of pedophiles? Is there a reason why TOR was removed?
Andrew Lee: We’re working on it and it’ll be up. I’m a big fan of TOR. I think TOR’s great software. I think it provides a lot of freedom and equality to people in the world. Yeah, I don’t have anything against TOR at all.
L: Alright so that’s one of the things that we can look forward to in the near future. They’re gonna try and fix fucking TOR.
Andrew Lee: Absolutely.
L: Alight, so, what can you say to young people who would like to become an entrepreneur or something like you? Did you just sort of fall ass-forward into a bunch of family wealth or whatever, or did you have to work your way up to get to your current place of owning a giant IRC network?
Andrew Lee: Yeah, so, kind of long story but I’ll cut it super-short.
L: Take your time. You got all the time in the world.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, it’s so long, I’ll be talking for the rest of my life, know what I’m saying? But for real, you know, life is hard, life is hard for everyone. I mean, unfortunately I’m probably like the king of overdrafts. Life is hard but fortunately there are great opportunities for people today because the internet and whatever, computers, know what I’m saying? You know, back in the day, if you wanted to, let’s say, build a house and sell it, you needed money to get that stuff in the first place, but on the computer you just build something, you just need knowledge. So, luckily for me, I was born in this era and luckily for me IRC taught me a lot of things like how to code and whatever. So I was able to just build things with minimal investment and do it. So giving that back, I think that everyone else should keep their head up and understand it doesn’t matter how broke you are. You can do it if you try. You gotta believe, you gotta work hard, you gotta win. Not everyone that works hard is gonna be successful but everyone that’s successful absolutely works hard. I read that in a Manga.

He said, “I’m probably like the king of overdrafts.”

L: Oh wow. Do you remember which Manga?
Andrew Lee: Hajime no Ippo. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajime_no_Ippo]
L: [laughs] [under his breath, away from mic] Fucking ridiculous!
L: Alright. Those are stirring words right there. You’ve gone into an area here with IRC that has traditionally been completely unprofitable and a time and energy sink for everybody. Do you expect that you can ever turn a profit with Freenode?
Andrew Lee: No, we’re not really trying to, like, turn a profit with Freenode. It doesn’t really look like something that can make money. It’s, kind of, more just we made too much money, so let’s just keep giving back as much as we can. People are talking shit and we’re just donating money, you know? It is what it is.
L: That’s amazing right there. Giving back to the community by wiping out these horrendous Open Source channels. You’re a saint right there.
Andrew Lee: Oh yeah that had to happen. Those guys are toxic as fuck.

So Free software people are “toxic” to him?

L: Yeah. They had to go. They had to go. I’m with you there.
Andrew Lee: [indistinct] had to go. It is what it is.
L: Next – so next -
Andrew Lee: [indistinct] RIP.
L: I wanna ask you about your future right there, because obviously this is just a diversion for you. Do you think that you will ever – wherever you go there are levels. There’s like Andrew Lee-style “owns half of Korea” wealth, and then you have like the galaxy wealth of people like Jeff Bezos, Jeff Bezos’ ex-wife, and Elon Musk and so forth. Do you think that you will ascend to their level of billionaire status ever at any point?
Andrew Lee: I mean, I see them working hard. They’re trying to catch up. You know what I’m saying?
L: So, the next question. Elon is going to Mars. Are you considering any kind of exploration or expansion of your enterprises outside of the Earth?
Andrew Lee: No, I’m just trying to help create world peace and unity, so that the whole world will have the privilege of having communication with the galactic federation.
L: Huh. So are you currently in contact with the galactic federation, or is this a hypothetical galactic federation that you think might be out there?
Andrew Lee: I don’t speak on things that I think. I only speak on things that I know.
L: Alright, alright, I see. So let’s take the way that the Freenode situation has been handled right here. There may be some nay-sayers who say that you’ve created chaos and so-forth, but other people are applauding your efforts to purge users and wonder if it could be applied to other political processes. As you see, IRC is a political process. Do you think that you could use your unique style of killing users in any kind of war zone? Are there any conflicts that you’re taking a look at on the globe and saying “I could deal with that if I were just given the power”?
Andrew Lee: Unfortunately, no, because I don’t think that people should have power over anybody. I think that people are the ones who should have the power themselves, like self-sovereignty, like I said, and so just beefs between people or whatever they’re into, that’s their business. If they ask people for help then, of course, we’ll try to figure out what’s going on but, you know, people’s business is people’s business.
L: So no k-lining people IRL in the near future. I’m sad to hear it. Maybe somebody else will pick up that torch and run with it.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, IRC is a funny thing. It uses the word /KILL for the alias and that, kind of, leaves people feeling really emotional and honestly I think it’s hilarious when they get back on and they’re like “uh oh why’d you /KILL me?” and I just kill ‘em again.
L: Oh damn. Kill ‘em again. That’s one of my favourite Rakim songs right there. Shout-outs to big Rakim. The god baby. Alright, so, I want to thank you for all of the time. Was there anything you wanted to talk about that you didn’t get a chance to talk about here or any disses that you want to throw out? Are you gonna get back into rapping?
Andrew Lee: Uh, no, not at all. Actually what I’m kinda spending my time on most of these days is trying to empower the people. Freenode is one of those things I’m focussed on but there’s many other things.
L: What are some of these other things? I’m interested.
Andrew Lee: There’s a lotta thing I’m involved – it would be impossible to name everything. But, you know, some of the things that people enjoy greatly are probably things that I’m involved in and they just don’t know, so we’ll leave it at that.
L: I’m a big fan of prostitutes and rye whisky and fuckin’ playin’ boardgames. Are you responsible for any of those things?
Andrew Lee: [long pause] Not at all.
L: Okay. I just wanted to check if I should thank you for whatever. Alright, so a lot of your fans are in the chat talking about your song Smash or Pass. Was it just like you were just fucking around or is it something that you’re proud of? Are you ashamed of it? How do you feel about it?
Andrew Lee: I don’t know what that is man. I feel like it’s just random excerpts of different words that got put together.
L: So this wasn’t, like, a serious effort and you’re not planning to drop an album any time soon? I’m sad to hear that. I think it could be fucking amazing.
Andrew Lee: No I’m just [indistinct] I’m not trying to drop an album or anything. You know, like I’ve said, I’m 100% focussed right now on empowering people. One of the little things I’ve been saying, a little bit of time on, is Freenode and believe it or not there’s a lot of big things to come. [Indistinct] I’ll be right back in five minutes, one sec.
L: Yeah okay. I can fucking swang [?] forever. Do I still have somebody else on the line right there? There was one other amigo on there. Fascinating insights into…
??: [Other voices, indistinct]

Andrew Lee: Yeah back, my bad.
L: Ah yeah, no worries there.
Andrew Lee: Um…
L: Never get high on your own supply.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, I don’t even remember what we were talking about.
L: Yeah, I think you were going on about empowering people and so forth. So, I wanna ask you, where does this come from? This desire to help others? You know, it’s something that not a lot of other people have. Generally you just think about the saints. The catholic saints wanted to do that. Maybe Buddha. Maybe Mohammed on a good day. Where does this come from? What inspired you to give up so much of yourself as a sacrifice for other people?
Andrew Lee: I don’t know but I don’t want to be in any way associated to any kind of like weird shit like you were just talking about, man. That’s just weird.
L: What like fucking Mohammed and the saints and all that? Yeah I guess they were kinda some weird fucking people.
Andrew Lee: Man, there’s some weird stuff going on. You know, like, actually yeah, you asked me if I had something to say. I will say something. Please keep in mind that, believe it or not, whatever the media wants you to believe, Pizzagate is absolutely real, and take the time, and research, study, analyse it, and you will see what kind of world we really live in.
L: Oh this is fascinating. So you think for real that the shit with Comet Pizza Ping Pong was going on, and, like, all the Podesta e-mails and shit like that, that was really going on? And we’re starting to see evidence of that with like Pizza Gaetz, uh, Matt Gaetz, who is definitely involved in some kind of child sex trafficing and so forth. Do you think that there is, like, an illuminati with people eating the pineal glands of children that they have sexually abused in satanic rituals and shit like that?
Andrew Lee: I don’t know about anything like that. All I can say is I suggest reading through the documents. You know, many of those are DKIM signature verified. You won’t hear that in the media. The media is trying to stifle discussion on Pizzagate. They’re trying to cancel people who talk about Pizzagate, but, it is what it is, you know? It sounds like some BS but there’s some really crazy heinous people out there and they wanna focus on everything but that.
L: So, say that you’re out there and you believe that Pizzagate is real. Who can you even vote for? Is there anybody that you can trust? Is it even worth being part of a political process if everyone who has ever run for office is a satanic pedophile?
Andrew Lee: Again, I don’t know what you’re talking about with that but are people getting extorted? That’s another question, right? You know what I’m saying?
L: Alright, well, I guess this is not really the platform to discuss it but I will encourage you all to look into Pizzagate and show up at a parlour with your gatt and get some answers for yourself. Don’t actually do that by the way.

In personal conversations with me Lee expressed the same views.

Andrew Lee: [indistinct]
L: Alright, so, there’s been a lot of hub-bub about UFOs recently. These fucking things are flying all over the place. The navy just released a bunch of footage and so forth. And they fucking real? Is an invasion imminent? Is this all Chinese propaganda? What’s going on?
Andrew Lee: Go to the Black vault and go to the released CIA files and read the 8th document and tell me. Tell me.
L: Alright well I can’t do that live here on the air but I encourage everybody to get in on that. Go to the Black vault and released CIA files and check it all out there. So ullerd in the chat asks, “Andrew, are you going to make Freenode great again?”
Andrew Lee: We’re absolutely going to make Freenode great again. We have completely obliterated the swamp. It’s over. We’re in clear blue seas, sailing free… it’s done.
L: It’s beautiful.
Andrew Lee: We’re in the promised land.
L: Ahhh. [laughs] So, have you visited isfreenodedeadyet.com?
Andrew Lee: I did, and it used to be a pretty nice website, but I don’t know what happened to it. It just kinda stopped reporting the proper information.
L: Oooh. Do you think somebody got to them?
Andrew Lee: [indistinct] I don’t know, it just kind of [indistinct] you know, Libera thought they were the fastest growing network in the world. Freenode killed that record in one day.
L: Oh wow. Now, to be fair, it killed the record because you fucking kicked everybody off and they had to rejoin. But, still, an amazing acomplishment right there.
Andrew Lee: Oh, no, we left Freenode Classic running for a little bit, you know what I mean? So we broke the record while Freenode Classic was running in tandem, or whatever the word is.

L: Oh, I see. Okay. That’s fucking fantastic. This is kind of like a more personal question. Do you have a favourite book or an author that greatly influenced you?
Andrew Lee: Uh… maybe The Art of War by Sun Tzu.
L: Wow. That’s a fucking wild one right there. What are you – how involved in the political process in Korea, as a direct descendant of the emperor, are you? Do you see good things on the horizon for Korea? They were hit pretty hard by that corona virus.
Andrew Lee: I don’t know anything – I don’t know anything about Korea. You know, I have a lot of respect for what they’re doing over there. It seems to be a democracy from what I can see but I have nothing to do with that. I represent Joseon.
L: Okay. They’ve just – when you talk about creepy political conspiracies and so forth, Korea has to be one of the number one destinations on Earth for just wild cult shit going on in the government. That is definitely -
Andrew Lee: There’s weird stuff – there’s weird stuff going on over there. You know, the UN created some weird, uh – you know they formed in order to create some kind of weird task force and sent some people over to Korea and looked around and they were like “Uh, there’s, like, nobody here. There’s no government.” Even though there was a whole government and all that structure. And then they came back and just started shooting people and then did a forced selection. You know what I mean?
L: Well that’s what the UN does. They just murder whoever they want.
Andrew Lee: [indistinct] That’s kinda how that country started. Sometimes things start on some BS, you know, like, you see Liberia over there?
L: Yeah, they definitely started under some false pretenses.
Andrew Lee: It is what it is, you know. Sometimes some BS can become good. So even Liberia may one day be some legit thing, but for now, who knows?
L: Would you consider, if the Open Source infestation gets too bad over there, would you consider buy the Liberia network and doing this whole thing all over again?
Andrew Lee: Uh… I would never buy Liberia, but if somebody paid me to take it, I would take, you know what I mean? But I’d probably just shut it down and, like, forward the thing to, like, Last Measure or something. I don’t know.
L: Alright. I just want to shout out the the GNAA for their tireless work on the development of Last Measure. What a wonderful software program for all people. When we talk about the non-aggression principle, this is – Last Measure is the great equalizer, and I just want to shout out to TimeCop and Lysol and everybody else who worked so hard on that amazing program. If you haven’t seen it yourself just Google “Last Measure” and go to one of the first five or six hits that you get.
Andrew Lee: I would definitely not do that if you’re not alone.
L: If you’re not alone? Oh, yeah, it should be experienced with friends, really. It’s the kind of thing – Last Measure is the kind of thing you just wanna throw up during a presentation, or if you’re at a wedding or a funeral or whatever. It’s always appropriate in my viewpoint. [laughs] People are scrolling, “hey everybody, I’m looking at gay porno” in the background right there. So you got The Art of War, you got – oh, so, spathywah [sp?] wants to know, “What is the connection between Freenode, free bleeding, and freeballing?”
Andrew Lee: [pause] What?
L: He says, “What is the connection between Freenode, free bleeding, and freeballing?”
Andrew Lee: I don’t even know, you know what I mean?
L: It might be one of those rhetorical questions, or it’s kind of like a Zen koan, where just the consideration of the question is the answer within itself. So, that’s another interesting point right there. Are you into any kind of religion? Are you an atheist?
Andrew Lee: Uh… you know, I have some beliefs, and one of those beliefs is that people have the right to their own beliefs. So, you know, that’s kinda where I’m at.
L: Alright, so, anybody who doesn’t want to talk about what they believe is welcome to – you know, that’s a decent position to take right there. Alright, so, where do you stand on all of this vaccine, non-vaccine. Do you think they’re a good idea? Do you think they’re a bad idea? Do they work? Should everybody get vaccinated? Is it a government program? What’s going on there?
Andrew Lee: Well, I think initially, you know, people had the right thing in mind, but there’s a bunch of seedy-ass motherfuckers out there trying to pull some shit on everybody, so, you know, these days it’s – it’s really unclear, right? We don’t really have in our homes the technology to validate anything we’re reading about so suddenly we’re in some position where we just have to trust the faith, you know what I mean? Which is kinda fucked up, you know, so. It’s really unclear, you know what I mean? I would definitely suggest everyone do as much research as possible, check what you’re researching and proceed with caution and understanding that all things in life have risk including walking out your front door, you know?
L: It’s true. I would assume that it has more risk if you’re Andrew Lee and every Open Source nerd on the Earth wants you dead.

Andrew Lee: I mean, if they all wanna chip in and pay, like, the top fighter. I dunno, find someone. Like Khabib or someone. I’m more than happy to get in the cage and start fucking some shit up.
L: Wait, did you just agree to get in cage with Khabib Nurmagomedov? Holy shit. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabib_Nurmagomedov]
Andrew Lee: I’d fuck him up, man. I mean, the dude is a jeep [sp?] by the way, right? Like, super respect. You know what I’m saying? Like, for real. But I’d fuck him up.
L: Oh shit. Yeah, you heard it here live on the L0de Radio Hour. Andrew Lee vs Khabib. It even sounds good. That’d be a good fucking card right there. Maybe we could get an undercard of some of the fucking Liberia staffers fighting each other. Hell yeah.
Andrew Lee: King vs king.
L: King vs king? Oh god damn. That’s wild right there. Alright. A lot of people are asking if they can fight you right now in the chat, but you might need to fucking climb the ladder a little bit people. Fucking taking on Khabib. That’s wild as shit right there. Alright, so, a new MRNA vaccine for malaria has just gone into trials in mice, and so far it looks like they can prevent mice from contracting malaria. If that vaccine is efficatious, it’s going to change the entire fucking – everything for Africa is going to change. The entire continent south of the Sahara is really, sort of, defined by malaria in many cases. Do you see potential for expansion into Africa. Are you – have you heard about this? Are you excited about it? Do you not give a shit?
Andrew Lee: You know I think Africa is a beautiful country but I don’t know anything about this vaccine thing. Like I said, we don’t really have the technology in our homes. Everybody’s just reading some bullshit written some other person who really doesn’t know what they’re talking about so no-one really knows what they’re talking about, know what I’m saying? But then you see, like, Bill Gates and something about some polio vaccine something something something, know what I’m trying to say? Like, there’s some weird stuff going on so like I said, I would definitely proceed with caution. You know, there’s definitely real things out there and there’s definitely some fake shit out there.

L: Okay. Let me just – this is one spot where I have the education. The polio vaccine absolutely works. Just for anybody out there.
Andrew Lee: Oh no, I’m not talking about the polio vaccine. I’m talking something that, uh, something something Bill Gates something something polio something something. That’s [indistinct]
L: Okay, well, I’ll try to fill in those fucking madlibs at some point. We just got a question. Somebody wants to know who your favourite wrestler of all time is, and I think they’re talking about WWE or WWF or whatever the fuck.
Andrew Lee: I mean, Hulk Hogan’s pretty gangster, right? You saw what he did to Gawker.
L: That was fucking legit. The Hulkamania where he just shut down the entire fucking website. We’re you inspired by that? Is what we’re seeing on Freenode right now your own kind of fucking Hulkamania run wild?
Andrew Lee: Not on Freenode. Let’s just put it that way.
L: Wait, wait, so there are other enterprises that you’re tearing apart right now that we don’t even know about?
Andrew Lee: Who knows.
L: Oh my god. Jesus. I’m definitely interested to see what’s going on there. I see a little – a few people are skeptical of your claim that you could take out Khabib. Gen. Layabout says -
Andrew Lee: Well if they’re skeptical, put their money where their mouth is. You know what I’m saying? I guarantee you if everyone on IRC chipped in like a thousand bucks we could probably make it happen I mean, I can’t speak for the dude. If he’s afraid, he’s afraid. You know?
L: Wow. That’s wild right there. You know, when somebody brings up Khabib, they gotta be into fighting. Outside of Khabib, are you like a UFC fan? Are you – have you been watching this Jake Paul horseshit going on? Have any opinions on it?
Andrew Lee: Not really, I just kind of sit on IRC all day. I don’t really move around that much.

L: Alright, so, on our program right here, the L0de Radio Hour, we have a long-standing championship called the Chug Championship, right? It’s where people compete to chug the most beer, or liquor, or whatever fucking drink right there, and we have a new title shot coming up. Are you interested in vying to be the chug champion for all IRC?
Andrew Lee: The only problem is I don’t drink.
L: Oh. Oh, that would be a problem right there.
Andrew Lee: Yeah. Yeah.
L: What about, you could be the sniff champion of all IRC? Do you think that you could rail more cocaine than anybody else on IRC?
Andrew Lee: I don’t think anybody’d be able to find anything pure enough for me to do.
L: Ah. Alright.
Andrew Lee: [indistinct]
L: Let me make a prospect for you. If I am willing to stage an event in Bolivia, right? Where the shit is basically coming right off of the fucking coca plants. As pure as it can possibly get. Are you willing to compete in a concaine-off over the craziest base head of all time? We’ll have to track him down there.
Andrew Lee: So, right now, I can’t really, like, throw any opinion on that, know what I mean? Some people do a lot of coke. Some people don’t at all. You know, everyone’s free to do whatever they wanna do. For me, like, I’m not gonna ever, kind of like, even do something that could just make any kind of suggestion somethings crazy on this, like I don’t know what’s going on. Weed for example, right? Like, marijuana, right? I would, I would, I would, I would do whatever with that, cos, you know, like, the only thing that’s been proven about marijuana is you grow brain cells, you know what I mean? Like, everyone else who doesn’t smoke weed is simply not growing brain cells, you know what I mean?
L: Alright, well, like, we’ll put that in the pipeline and maybe consider developing an ultimate toke-off for IRC users, because we’re all about fucking contests and competition here, and that’s one of the things I always hated about the Open Source movement. How they were so, like, wishy-washy and anti-competitive, and it’s why none of their shit works IMO. You just need that comp- do you think that you need competition driving you forward to get shit done?
Andrew Lee: Uuuh… who needs competition?
L: I think human beings need competition to get them to do anything.
Andrew Lee: I mean, you know, that might be like, uh, kind of one of the archaic ways to make things happen, but there’s other ways to make things happen that are, you know, that incorporate, the, the, let’s call it the incentive that competition provides, but also, you know, there’s a better word for it, I don’t know what it is right now cos, you know, it’s not like I know what I’m talking about, but, you know.

L: Yeah, well, I mean, that’s fair to say. Alright, well, I’m definitely interested to see what you think the alternative to competition is at some later point, and I’m very interested to see these non-hierarchical systems.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, just to be clear, I don’t think that, you know, competition is good in the sense of what it has become today.
L: Mmm-hmm. Alright, well, that’s fair to say.
Andrew Lee: Yo, cos, unfortunately, today, like, people are… people, instead of, like, you know, you know, you see back in the day you got, “ah shit motherfucker, come out here right now, lets fight” and someone’s gonna come outside and you’ll get in a fight, you know what I mean? And it is what it is. Somebody’s gonna win. Somebody’s gonna lose. You know, who knows? You might even become friends after that, right? But, these days, somebody’s gonna be like, “ah yeah, let’s get in a fight, let’s get in a fight” and then they’ll, like, pull out a gun and, like, shoot your family member or some shit, you know what I’m saying?
L: Yeah, that’s some ho shit right there.
Andrew Lee: – and that’s kinda, like, how people are. Where people are at, you know what I mean? So, you know, I think, I think competition and whatever has gone a little bit – you know, human greed is a little too strong, you know what I mean? People, people need a little bit more wealth in their pockets to help get them focussed on what’s right and not just the, uh, immediate need that they have in front of them, and, uh, you know, Freenode is going to provide that soon.
L: Wait, is Freenode going to provide people with, like, a UBI stipend? Are people going to log into Freenode to get welfare?
Andrew Lee: You shall see. It’s not welfare, it’s not UBI. You will see. It’s gonna be crazy. A bunch of billionaires and hidden trillionaires are gonna hate me. Come at me if you do, if you wanna do something about it. It is what it is.
L: Oh wow. This is exciting what I’m hearing right here.
Andrew Lee: It’s all about power to the people.
L: It sounds like, to me, like there’s gonna be free money on IRC. I’m just reading between the lines right here. Maybe that’s not what you meant, but that’s what I choose to believe because I wanna get paid to IRC. It’s been my life-long dream and this show is how I’m trying to – alright, and we’re seeing a lot of support for this in the chat. People are categorically supporting free money, which is a surprise to me right there, but, alright, sounds pretty fucking amazing right there. Alright, let’s see, what do we got here. Alright, so, we talked a little bit – we heard a little bit about your shadowy chat past right there. Let’s talk about the new staff of Freenode. Who are your all-stars? Is there anybody you want to shout-out to in the new staff?
Andrew Lee: You know, there’s a lot of amazing, amazing men and women who are part of the Freenode staff. At this time, rather than, kind of, individually call anybody out, you know, I just wanna, you know, let everyone know that the entire team is amazing, and there are a whole – way, way, way smarter than you when it comes to this shit.
L: Yeah, well, anybody’s smarter than me. I can barely use mIRC, so I agree 100%. [laughs] These people are scrolling an Eskimo ascii in the background right now. Alright, so, I live in New York City, and Andrew Yang is about to become our mayor right here, and he is a big proponent of UBI. What do you think about Andrew Yang, if you’re following that at all? If you don’t give a shit that’s fine too. What do you think about UBI?

Andrew Lee: You know, I don’t really understand UBI enough to make any kind of comments on it. I think a lot more studies need to be conducted to understand what kind of impact that has on society, productivity, jealousy, you know, creeping in of communism. All that. So, you know, I don’t really have any opinions, but, you know, there’s much to see as people experiment on this socialist movement.
L: Okay. So, a lot of people have said that the reason why this shit all went down on Freenode, why, like, why all the traitor operators jumped ship and founded Liberia, was they found out that you are a Trump supporter. Is this accurate? Are you a supporter of Donatello J. Trump?
Andrew Lee: I think that President Trump was an amazing president, greatly misunderstood by many. One of the best presidents of all time. One of the best presidents we’ll probably ever have. You know, it’s unfortunate that the election was stolen. I unfortunately did not vote and partake. I didn’t take any side. I’m pretty non-political, but as a leader for the United States of America, President Donald Trump was the one, and these fuckers who stole that shit, you know, like, karma’s gonna, you know, everything comes around, you know what I mean? Like, they can – they can temporarily halt freedom, but it’s not – it’s gonna just keep pushing through. You know?
L: So, not too long ago I did an interview with, I think, Matt Gaynard or Gaynards or Baynards or something like that, or – I forget this guy’s fucking name. Sorry, Baynerd. He was deeply concerned with election security, and he too postulated that some shit had gone down. That numbers couldn’t really explain in the Georgia election specifically. Do you think that we’ll ever see fully online voting, and do you think Freenode might be a good place for people to cast their presidential and local election votes?
Andrew Lee: Uh, right now it’s a little bit too easy to game any kind of system online, you know? So people are gonna have to figure that out. It’s unfortunate because, you know, it comes to, like, identity, and it, like, got a clash with privacy, so it’s like a weird situation, so I don’t know if that’s gonna happen any time soon. Not too soon. Not to say that the existing voting system isn’t, kind of, screwed as it is. I mean, it’s got it’s own problems, right? So who knows? Maybe some brave, brave president, or whoever is in charge of setting that up is gonna, you know, take a chance and take a leap of faith and give it a shot, but, you know, make no mistake, I mean, [indistinct] you can look online. You can check all that. Anyone who knows how to use the internet and knows how things work. It’s clear that it was impossible for President Donald Trump to have lost that previous election. Like, that’s just impossible, you know what I mean?
L: You think it’s impossible?
Andrew Lee: Right now, yeah, we’re living in this strange situation where, you know, everyone has a love for their country, and so they’re just, you know, following the rules and doing whatever, but the next election, you know, everybody needs to actually, like, pay attention to what’s going on. Don’t pay attention to what’s going on on the side. Just focus on what these politicians are claiming they’re gonna do. You know, write it down and – and see what’s up. It might be a Democrat, it might be a Republican, it might be some independent, it might be – you know, hopefully it’s someone from the Pirate Party, you know what I mean?
L: That would be fucking wild. I’d definitely vote for the torrent candidate right there. Alright, so, you don’t have any political ambitions, correct? You’re not gonna take a run at the presidency of the United States of America any time soon?
Andrew Lee: Uh… you know, I don’t think that I’m, I’m, uh, you know, of, of, of the capability to do that right now. That’s a tremendous responsibility and unfortunately there hasn’t really been any president who was – who was capable of running such a large scale democratic organization other than President Donald Trump. He was the only one that could do it, you know. Maybe one day – maybe one day if I feel I have the skills, but I just don’t think so because I’m a [indistinct], you know what I mean?
L: Why do you think that he was so uniquely qualified? Was he just, like, a special god-emperor type person? Or was it all the time that he spent running casinos? Or did he just learn so much from running The Apprentice?
Andrew Lee: You know, not only does he run a bunch of profitable large-scale-scale operations with so many diverse different people who are all very happy, you know, like – I mean, I don’t know anything about the inside but this is what I see on the outside, I’m saying, but, you know, on top of that the guys just, like, he’s got his shit together, you know what I’m saying? He’s not just waltzing around trying to make some crazy speech with crazy words and trying to fool a bunch of people who don’t even know what people are talking about anyway. He’s just getting shit done, you know what I mean? ‘Cos he knows he needs to get it done.
L: I gotta say, the rallies that he fucking – uh, I’m deeply embedded in American politics – and, the raly structure that he ran in the 2016 elections was like, one of – and all trolling aside – that was one of the most amazing things that I had ever seen. This dude was doing, like, three rallies a day and had people fucking chanting that snake poem at the end of every one. That shit was – that was the wildest election I’ve ever seen in my gay life.
Andrew Lee: Yeah, yeah, the dude was for real. Like, don’t get me wrong. I’m saying, like, we’re gonna see – we’re gonna – we’re – we’re gonna see others, you know. Like, I’m being a little bit too p – pessimistic, right? Like, like, people grow. They gain experience as they grow in life and, you know, some idiot right next to you? You know, who knows? They’re gonna gain the experience, wisdom, and personality to be able to lead this country, you know what I mean? So, you never know, but I’m just saying right now there hasn’t been someone like him and, yeah, I’m not exactly all about his politics either, you know what I mean? Again, I’m not really into politics, but I’m definitely not like a Republican or anything, know what I’m saying? Like, no way.
L: Oh shit.
Andrew Lee: But that dude – that dude, singly – that dude, singly was the greatest president of all time.
L: Alright, so, I just got a message from Jake Paul. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with this guy but he’s like a Youtube star or whatever.
Andrew Lee: [indistinct]
L: He is calling you out. Yeah, he said, “tell Andrew hes a pussy and I will eat his ass out alive in the ring.”
Andrew Lee: I think it’s really impressive what the dude was able to do by making a fool of himself on Youtube, but, you know, with all due respect, there’s no way. I’m sorry. Like, any time, anywhere, any place. Come. I’m right here.
L: You ready to fuck this guy up?
Andrew Lee: I’m right here.
L: Alright, alright. Yeah, ‘cos he didn’t do too well against fucking Mayweather. I’m one of the people that – I watched that fight, and Mayweather knocked him the fuck out and had to carry his sorry ass. It was a shitty fight but he definitely got knocked the fuck out on his feet and had to have a man half his side fucking carry him. Alright, so, Jake Paul vs Andrew Lee. It’s been agreed to right here. Jake Paul it’s now on you to fucking make that fight happen. He was the challenger right there. He’s gotta provide the fucking arena and, ah – I guess [sighs] So, what kind of fighting experience do you have, Andrew? Like, have you trained in, like, tae-kwon-do or something?
Andrew Lee: I literally – I got nothing. I literally just sit on this computer. I know how to code, you know? Um… yeah. You know what I mean? But I’ll fuck ‘im up.
L: Alright, just – you’re gonna fuck him up with pure willpower. That’s fucking fantastic. Alright, well, I feel like I’ve learned a lot about where Freenode has been and where it’s going. I feel like we’ve learned a lot about you, and we’ve got people offering to train you scrolling up in the chat, so get at some of these people later. There are a lot of – actually, we have a lot of boxers that watch this fucking show for some reason. People who actually-
Andrew Lee: Oh, nah, I don’t need- I don’t need any- I don’t need any training.
L: You don’t need any preparation?
Andrew Lee: Thank you for the offer but it’s like 50 years too early for a clown like that to fucking challenge me. I’m sorry.
L: Oh, I see. Alright, well, cool. Well, cool. That’s fucking fantastic. Thank you for coming through and I wanna wish you a lot of luck in Freenode and thank you for getting rid of that Open Source filth. Really, you’ve done such a favour to all of man-kind by purging the Freenode network. I wanna tell you that I ran a program called War Against Freenode for 20 years. For 20 years we’ve been working on destroying the Freenode network and finally it has been done and the victory is sweet, so I want to thank you in your tremendous role in destroying Freenode and rebuilding it from the ashes. Hell yeah.
Andrew Lee: Hell yeah, you know what I mean? We’re just gonna keep delivering.
L: That’s fucking fantastic. Alright, well, Andrew, I’m gonna let you go here. I don’t wanna talk your hair off all night. Do you have any shout-outs or song requests?
Andrew Lee: Michael Jackson – Heal the World.
L: Heal the World? [laughs] Alright, we’ll play that at the end. That’ll ban the stream so I’m gonna play it at the very end. Alright, thank you, Andrew Lee. Penis Pump.
Andrew Lee: Alright man, peace man. Thanks, bro.
L: Alright, well I can’t believe Andrew Lee and Lil Pump came through. I have like 600 messages in my buffer right there. Wild fucking times. Shout outs to everybody who came through and got to hear what’s really going on with Andrew Lee.

A lot of attention was paid to Lee’s support of Trump (shown above), but that’s not the point. The more problematic thing is the claim that the election was stolen last year (“these fuckers who stole that shit”). The rhetoric of “election fraud” motivated sedition/insurrection.

The transcript above is a matter of public record. People can reach their own conclusions based on it.

Transcript attribution: Wodencafe

05.31.21

This Page Has Richard Stallman’s Talk (11:00PM GMT, Later Today)

Posted in Free/Libre Software, FSF, GNU/Linux, Interview at 11:35 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Mirror of RMS/FSF

May 31, 2021 | 11:00pm GMT | 7:00pm Boston, USA (EDT) | 8:00pm São Paulo, Brazil (BRT)

Hosts: Blau Araujo, Paulo Kretcheu, Alexandre Oliva

The stream is currently offline. Please check back (and refresh the page) at the time of the presentation mentioned above for the live stream video feed.

It’s live now!

You can submit questions from #debxp:matrix.org via Matrix, or #debxp on Freenode via IRC.

Examples of free IRC clients include: HexChat, Quassel, Irssi, and WeeChat.

05.11.21

Richard Stallman on Companies That Are “Only Pretending to be American Companies”

Posted in Free/Libre Software, Interview at 1:13 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Summary: Dr. Richard Stallman, the Free Software Foundation’s founder, speaks about US politics being captured and dominated by large and multinational corporations in pursuit of just money and power


Direct download as Ogg (00:01:54, 6.2 MB)

Transcript:

[00:00]

(intro music)

Roy: … the system in the United States. I know that lobbying plays a great role in just about any country and one of the corporate welfare methodologies is to try to get subsidies from the public, from the taxpayers for all sorts of reasons and essentially extract the money from the taxpayers and assure you are too big to jail or that the state perceives you as something that is not allowed to fail.

[00:30]

To what degree is this true in the United States?

RMS: Oh, it’s tremendously true and in many different areas of policy you can see that the government does what the big companies that are interested in that area demand. So for instance, in copyright the US government does what the big media companies demand. In banking, it does what the big banks demand. In regard to fossil fuels, it does what the fossil fuel companies demand. And …

[01:00]

Roy: Agriculture as well.

RMS: Yeah, that’s true. It does what the big agribusiness companies demand. I’m sure you could think of a few more. The point is that these are examples of a plutocratic system. We need to tell all of those companies to take a flying leap and that we don’t care whether they continue to exist or not. And that they are only pretending to be American companies.

[01:30]

When they say, if I say this is my country it means in a sense I belong to it. But when they say this is our country it means they think they own it.

05.10.21

Richard Stallman on Writing rm, ls, and cp (Also Working on Bison)

Posted in Free/Libre Software, GNU/Linux, Interview at 5:10 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Summary: Dr. Richard Stallman, the Free Software Foundation’s founder, explains what programs he developed in the eighties


Direct download as Ogg

[00:00]

(intro music)

Roy: Which was the first GNU project or GNU program, officially?

RMS: The first one to be released, you mean?

Roy: Yeah.

RMS: I believe it was GNU Emacs. There were other programs written before then but they weren’t really worth distributing. For instance, I wrote rm and ls and cp, but I didn’t

[00:30]

see that anyone would care about them by themselves. So I didn’t release them. Those were ways I got used to writing programs to run on UNIX and thus to be part of the system like UNIX. The first GNU program I worked on was Bison. Now, I didn’t start from zero. Bison was basically running but it didn’t have many of the features that Yacc had and for it to really do its job as a replacement for Yacc it needed

[01:00]

all those features. So I added those features, and some more. And I did that first because I wanted to use it to write the C front-end for our compiler.

05.08.21

Richard Stallman: Steve Jobs Did Some Very Bad Things

Posted in Apple, Interview at 9:03 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Summary: Dr. Richard Stallman told me about Steve Jobs that he had helped digitally imprison computer users

Direct download as Ogg (00:02:02, 6.7 MB)

05.02.21

Richard Stallman: “Google Can Forcibly Impose Software Changes and the User Can’t Say No.”

Posted in Google, Interview at 6:57 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

First published a decade back

Summary: “This is the same thing that Microsoft has in Windows,” Stallman told me, “so Microsoft can also impose software changes. Any malicious feature that’s not in the program today could be remotely installed tomorrow.”

I think in practice one of the issues is many of the browsers these days have actually got some surveillance built in and one of the usual excuses these days is security, so they try to prevent phishing scams and things like such that are absolute; I think since Internet Explorer version 7 and Google Chrome and other browsers by default they will track the users and leave a trail, or at least provide the corporate maker of the browser, with a list with pages you visit, so the other releases…

“…Google can forcibly impose software changes and the user can’t say no.”Richard Stallman: Those are non-Free programs. Internet Explorer is non-Free and Google Chrome is non-Free. Not only that, Google Chrome has a universal back door, which is another way of saying auto-update; basically it means that Google can forcibly impose software changes and the user can’t say no. This is the same thing that Microsoft has in Windows, so Microsoft can also impose software changes. Any malicious feature that’s not in the program today could be remotely installed tomorrow. So, once a program has a universal back door, you must consider it not merely malware but universal malware.

Download:

Ogg Theora

As embedded (HTML5):

04.29.21

Dr. Richard Stallman on How He Judges News Stories

Posted in Deception, FSF, Interview at 7:27 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Originally published 9 years ago

Direct download as Ogg (12:12, 4.8 MB)

Summary: Relevant bit of an old interview series with Richard Stallman (2012)


Dr. Roy Schestowitz: How do you judge the reliability of a news source and which one or ones do you favour?

Richard StallmanDr. Richard Stallman: Well, how do I judge the reliability? To a large extent I look at the story, and I try to judge based on the other things I know whether this looks like it’s bullshit or possible truth. Because there are news sources that I know often slant things, but that doesn’t mean that I think that their statements of facts would wrong, because I expect that they would be caught if were wrong. I don’t know of any news sources that I could say “that’s a good one”, because they all have their positions, they all want to say some things and not others. The question is, does it seem plausible that they would say falsehoods about facts? Because there is some embarrassment involved in getting caught in saying… in giving some news that wasn’t true.

Many places are not likely to say things that are just false, but they may draw conclusions that don’t really follow, or that reflect bias.

As embedded (HTML5):

Keywords: softwarepatents uspto monopoly gpl gplnext gnu fsf richardstallman

Download:

Ogg Theora

04.25.21

Richard Stallman on “Imprisonment Without Trial” and Lynching by Government

Posted in Interview at 7:22 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Summary: Reasons for optimism (getting more progressive people to join the government) and reasons for pessimism, by self-described “pessimist by nature” Dr. Richard Stallman


Direct download as Ogg (00:02:13, 7.3 MB)

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