●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, September 03, 2022 ●● ● Sep 03 [01:00] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:17] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [01:21] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [01:31] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [01:36] Techrights-sec The excessive writing when creating the static files is due to the lack of [01:36] Techrights-sec tracking which records have been used already. There is no marker to show [01:36] Techrights-sec which records have been written. If there were, then it would only be necessary [01:36] Techrights-sec to write the new. unwritten record(s) plus the record adjacent to them. [01:36] Techrights-sec What shortcomings can you see with that approach? I think there might be a [01:36] Techrights-sec more effcient way than that. [01:43] *_Mio14 (~quassel@freenode-5q3.kbt.fbo6vb.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [01:43] *Mio14 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) ● Sep 03 [02:15] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [02:29] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 03 [06:21] schestowitz-TR2 need topics ;-) [06:22] schestowitz-TR2 the world is paralysed not in the sense that nothing is going on [06:22] schestowitz-TR2 but in the sense not much gets investigated and reported over www [06:44] schestowitz-TR2 "I realize there is something performative about issuing a statement via tweet" https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2022/09/why-have-so-many-cabinet-members-still-not-spoken-out-on-stopping-government-funding-for-anti-semite/ [06:44] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.michaelgeist.ca | Why Have So Many Cabinet Members Still Not Spoken Out on Stopping Government Funding for an Anti-Semite? - Michael Geist [06:58] schestowitz__[TR] https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/09/03/PeppermintOS_Based_on_Devuan.shtml [06:58] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-news.tuxmachines.org | Tux Machines PeppermintOS Based on Devuan ● Sep 03 [07:19] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [07:19] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [07:31] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [07:33] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) [07:52] schestowitz-TR2 I've just corrected tim-extract for the rss/xml part, did the pull from the server side, but I think another step is required for the changes [07:52] schestowitz-TR2 to take effect as the newly-generated pages still use the old version in [07:52] schestowitz-TR2 I've tested these changes [07:56] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [07:58] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 03 [08:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [08:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [08:18] Techrights-sec Yes, pull then copy to /usr/local/bin [08:19] schestowitz-TR2 that's what I thought [08:19] schestowitz-TR2 but wanted to ask before doing it wrong [08:19] schestowitz-TR2 as it seems precarious at the root level [08:19] Techrights-sec It's two steps to avoid directly putting the scripts out there. [08:20] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [08:21] schestowitz-TR2 can you give me a "Safe" command that sends the git shell or perl files to the correct paths? [08:21] schestowitz-TR2 I also want to test in quiterss whether it now picks up the feed correctly in autodiscovery [08:22] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [08:26] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [08:27] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [08:32] Techrights-sec It's best to do them one at a time. Do you mean set up something with [08:32] Techrights-sec 'doas' there? [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 maybe a simpler workflow [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 I ask you to first review the changes [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 with git commit log [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 and then you place it in bin [08:33] Techrights-sec Ok [08:33] Techrights-sec checking [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 lowers the chances of accidents [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 marius likes your latest changes (info in irc log, "bytes") [08:33] schestowitz-TR2 for "tomorrow" [08:38] Techrights-sec ack [08:53] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [08:54] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [08:58] Techrights-sec Though the three step proces (w/two peope) reduces errors, there is the problem [08:58] Techrights-sec of bottlenecks and possible dealys. [08:59] schestowitz-TR2 I don't suppose I will make changes at that level too often [08:59] schestowitz-TR2 I am not a perl coder ● Sep 03 [09:01] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [09:02] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [09:05] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [09:05] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [09:05] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [09:07] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [09:14] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@freenode-rmogvn.g0d7.dtdf.mc4289.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [09:14] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@pmeqtjandsa9n.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [09:15] Techrights-sec That's a bottleneck too. No matter which language or scripting langauge is [09:15] Techrights-sec chosen, that will include or exclude people. I hope the code is sufficiently [09:15] Techrights-sec commented or clear. [09:15] Techrights-sec The exctraction script needs a ground-up rewrite though given the actual work [09:15] Techrights-sec flow, and that might mean adding a field to the keys table or else modding [09:15] Techrights-sec the way that script uses the metadata table. Either way tracking writes is a must ... perhaps. Comments welcom on the approach proposed a few lines earlier. [09:15] Techrights-sec There mightr be a more efficient way. [09:16] schestowitz-TR2 i wonder how other static generators do this [09:45] schestowitz-TR2 I've just taught arindam how to add and update stories [09:45] schestowitz-TR2 let's see if there are technical or [e.g. lack of grasp how how the UI works] barriers [09:46] Techrights-sec I looked at some others but not too closely and have forgotten much of what [09:46] Techrights-sec I noticed. Perhaps there is something written so as to avoid needing to install [09:46] Techrights-sec them somewhere. [09:46] Techrights-sec If he has feedback, that'd be good. [09:48] schestowitz-TR2 "Had the government not rushed and instead properly developed something (it sent it to the private sector with patents on publicly-funded work), then tested it more thoroughly/properly, maybe confidence would be higher." https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/09/03/uk-statistics-about-58-of-the-population-opted-to-receive-a-booster-and-now-they-say-another-vaccine-is-needed/ [09:48] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-schestowitz.com Blog Archive UK Statistics: About 58% of the Population Opted to Receive a Booster (and Now They Say Another Vaccine is Needed) ● Sep 03 [10:17] Techrights-sec ack [10:18] schestowitz-TR2 i think you will like the snowden viddeo I've converted to webm [10:18] schestowitz-TR2 it covers some of the point 'braxman' [sic] did [10:18] schestowitz-TR2 but snowden has better technical understanding [10:18] Techrights-sec checking [10:18] schestowitz-TR2 having written with bunnie huang about it [10:21] schestowitz-TR2 "Thats not the only thing. With increased stress levels, I really need to reduce my social media use, as it simply does not make me feel better overall and also likely eats an uncomfortably large amount of time." https://linmob.net/re-evaluating-priorities/ [10:21] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-LINMOB.net - Re-Evaluating Priorities [10:22] schestowitz-TR2 we want millions of people to say and do the same -- to the point friends mimic them and we kill off this wasteful, worthless decade of human 'activity' ● Sep 03 [11:40] schestowitz-TR2 ota [11:40] schestowitz-TR2 done, I did a response to parts of the snowden video [11:40] schestowitz-TR2 61 mins [11:40] Techrights-sec ack [11:42] schestowitz-TR2 holidays over, sept. 3rd already, news still very slow [11:42] schestowitz-TR2 not picking up at my end, or barely [11:42] schestowitz-TR2 all across thr board [11:42] Techrights-sec I notice the same stillness and lack of content. [11:44] schestowitz-TR2 social control media is dying too [11:44] schestowitz-TR2 you're not missing out anything there [11:44] schestowitz-TR2 so it's not like "all the cool kids" are having a meaningful debate elsewhere [11:44] schestowitz-TR2 it's just a vacuum [11:44] schestowitz-TR2 a lack of journalism enables price-fixing and stiffing [11:46] Techrights-sec ~. [11:46] Techrights-sec Social control media's demise is good, but not fast enough. To many powerful [11:46] Techrights-sec interests gain from abusing it. [11:51] schestowitz-TR2 with free europe radio or whatever the US called it at least you knew what you tuned into [11:51] schestowitz-TR2 the broadcaster, source, funder [11:56] Techrights-sec A /very/ harmful aspect of social control media is that 1) many weak journalists [11:56] Techrights-sec turn to it for initial "research" instead of getting at the facts and 2) [11:56] Techrights-sec many high level politicians misuse it in the same way. In that way it looks [11:56] Techrights-sec like many EC and UN politicians have had the wool pulled over their eyes and [11:56] Techrights-sec once fooled will not relinquish their mistaken posititions but rather dig in [11:56] Techrights-sec their heels. ● Sep 03 [12:29] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [12:29] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [12:37] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@freenode-rmogvn.g0d7.dtdf.mc4289.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [12:37] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@pmeqtjandsa9n.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:53] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [12:53] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [12:59] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@pmeqtjandsa9n.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [12:59] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@freenode-rmogvn.g0d7.dtdf.mc4289.IP) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 03 [13:42] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 03 [14:00] schestowitz-TR2 "Her death was announced on Twitter" https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/09/02/honor-her-memory-fighting-hell-barbara-ehrenreich-dies-81 | Source: Common Dreams [14:00] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.commondreams.org | 'Honor Her Memory... by Fighting Like Hell': Barbara Ehrenreich Dies at 81 [14:01] Techrights-sec "tweets" in place of officia notifications, that allows filtering as well as [14:01] Techrights-sec tracking [14:02] schestowitz-TR2 "Her death was announced on Twitter" https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/09/02/honor-her-memory-fighting-hell-barbara-ehrenreich-dies-81 | Source: Common Dreams [14:02] schestowitz-TR2 I remmeber whenn you got such nes with obituaries, not saudi trolls and "likes" [14:02] schestowitz-TR2 oh, come on, you are ssssooooo old fashioned [14:02] schestowitz-TR2 if I die, write a TEET for me [14:02] schestowitz-TR2 *TWEET [14:08] Techrights-sec :( [14:08] Techrights-sec Unfortunately that, an appeal to novelty, is successful in marketing [14:08] Techrights-sec both the manipulation and the surveillance. The addiction is part of the bargain ● Sep 03 [15:29] *techrights_guest|29 (~d8a947d8@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [15:29] *techrights_guest|29 has quit (Quit: Connection closed) ● Sep 03 [16:09] *_Mio14 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [16:11] *Mio14 (~quassel@freenode-vnv.q6n.039cds.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [16:21] schestowitz-TR2 yes, that is a good topic [16:21] schestowitz-TR2 syngenta is in the middle of some EPO scnadals, too [16:23] Techrights-sec Apropos news, I notice that neither Brave's nor StartPage's search show, [16:23] Techrights-sec sort by, or allow selection by approximate date. Up until a few days ago [16:23] Techrights-sec it was possible to limit search results by the last day, week, month, or year. [16:23] Techrights-sec Now the results are all jumbled up together, making it impossible to sort out [16:23] Techrights-sec relevant material by time. So there may be some news pages from yesterday [16:23] Techrights-sec but they are drowned out by higher ranking ones on the same topic, or same [16:23] Techrights-sec search words, even if the higher ranking ones are much older as in months or [16:23] Techrights-sec years [16:24] schestowitz-TR2 I never used Brave or the search, but I know startpage is a no-go [16:24] schestowitz-TR2 we have a WBer from there ● Sep 03 [17:49] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 03 [20:14] *schestowitz__[TR] has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [20:14] *schestowitz__ has quit (Quit: Konversation term) [20:15] *schestowitz (~roy@ngvjyiryrrbba.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [20:15] *irc.techrights.org sets mode +q #boycottnovell schestowitz [20:15] *schestowitz (~schestowi@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell [20:16] schestowitz [02:51] but can remove [20:16] schestowitz [02:51] hand on [20:16] schestowitz [02:51] please, yes! send the warrant [20:16] schestowitz [02:51] I searched the dept's site [20:16] schestowitz [02:52] I'm trying to figure out a way to send you a PDF [02:52] with names and everything [20:16] schestowitz [02:52] Yeah you would need to do an open records request [20:17] schestowitz [02:52] could never bring up the record [20:17] schestowitz [02:52] Yeah Austin is really strange [20:17] schestowitz [02:52] send it by email [20:17] schestowitz [02:52] if it's not a secret thing anyway [20:17] schestowitz [02:52] I'll replace and follow up [20:17] schestowitz [02:52] In the rest of tx most police departments post warrants and arrests publicly [20:17] schestowitz [02:53] sorry, you caught me at a bad time, and it's 3am here, I have 5 tasks at the same time [20:17] schestowitz [02:53] What's your email?[02:53] Sorry I'm not sure of your schedule I just assumed that you were awake late at night because that's usually when we talk [20:17] schestowitz [02:57] He's actually had a warrant since September 3rd[02:58] So he invaded arrest 3 full months[02:59] wow [20:17] schestowitz [02:59] but we found out late [20:17] schestowitz [02:59] if I put out the record [20:17] schestowitz [02:59] I found out a while ago[02:59] But I wasn't sure and didn't have any evidence that it was true [20:17] schestowitz [02:59] then it will make it vastly easier for me to proceed to his domestic violence issue [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 ping [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 arindam is posting OK [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 and updating OK, too [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 I've just diffed git tm-extract and which tm-extractr [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 then cp'd that [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 I guess it's the safest way [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 diff in alpine shows not only the different lines [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 but also adds some trailing lines for context [20:23] schestowitz-TR2 never seen this before [20:25] Techrights-sec thanks [20:25] Techrights-sec still thinking about how to re-do the html/gemtext generator. it'll likely be [20:25] Techrights-sec in two stages at this point [20:25] Techrights-sec checking [20:25] Techrights-sec yes I thought that was the usual, that diff shows a little context [20:26] schestowitz-TR2 maybe if there are some options or aliad that added them [20:26] schestowitz-TR2 alias like A and B in grep [20:26] schestowitz-TR2 or a and b, before and after [20:26] Techrights-sec ack [20:26] schestowitz-TR2 I think depending on the implementation [20:28] schestowitz-TR2 btw, I think "TLS options: file not found." is back [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 what would e the optimal approach to back up the new servers inc. root level things? [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 I'm doing backups atm [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 everything is a file, but with ownerships it gets complicated and some parts of the system are in weird paths [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 Juust thinking ahead of D-R-likke situation [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 all the feedback I got about the new TM design is either positive is neutral [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 I'm going to tidy things up a bit >outside< the new server [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 I've just cleaned my email for first time since July [20:47] schestowitz-TR2 it's more efficient when you can group the spam [20:52] Techrights-sec For backup, I'd do the OS separate from the services. However, I'm not up on [20:52] Techrights-sec the best practices for that for Alpine. For APT-based distros, dpkg had [20:52] Techrights-sec a --get-selections option. There may be something similar for APK. [20:52] Techrights-sec The TM material is all in /var/www/tuxmachines.org, /home/git/tuxmacines.org, [20:52] Techrights-sec and /home/tuxmachines. Not all of /var/www/tuxmachines.org needs to be backed [20:52] Techrights-sec up since the static pages can be recreated. [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 they cannot [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 unless we revert back to the broken DB, make a snapshot of them again, then roll back :-) [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 I will make a good backup of old... started a moment ago in fact [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 just to cement things a bit [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 in TM-new thee is not much yet except Links and IPFS [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 sorry, in TR-new [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 in tm-new we have a lot of work to future-proof [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 like I said, I see NO REASON why TM can't go on another 10 years [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 health OK, finance OK, momentum is there [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 and we don't depend on WWW [20:52] schestowitz-TR2 or on transient, vsolatile social control media [20:53] Techrights-sec There are a few open-rc configurations, too. [20:59] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Sep 03 [21:11] Techrights-sec ack [21:12] schestowitz-TR2 still backing up [21:12] schestowitz-TR2 also researching lf [21:12] schestowitz-TR2 btw, is the TLS error OK? [21:12] schestowitz-TR2 missing file? [21:12] schestowitz-TR2 iirc, you made it vanish at one point [21:13] Techrights-sec ack [21:13] Techrights-sec Maybe in November or December we can consider planning migration of TR? [21:13] Techrights-sec The TLS error should be solved now. That was yet another MQTT client, and it [21:13] Techrights-sec too needed its certificates updated. The default TTL for the certificates [21:13] Techrights-sec is 1 month, but I remembered that (after everything expired) and changed [21:13] Techrights-sec the TTL to just over 36 months. [21:13] Techrights-sec Checking [21:13] schestowitz-TR2 the error is showing again after adding new pages [21:13] schestowitz-TR2 not sure why [21:13] schestowitz-TR2 I think it came back last inight [21:14] Techrights-sec Not able to see it with refresh-site-from-db.sh [21:16] Techrights-sec Not able to see it with refresh-site-from-db.sh [21:16] Techrights-sec Nor /home/tuxmachines/bin/tm-monitor-site-updates.sh [21:16] Techrights-sec The wide charcter warning is still there, though. [21:16] Techrights-sec In which context do you still see the TLS warning? [21:16] schestowitz-TR2 update and refresh as user "Roy" [21:16] Techrights-sec Checking [21:16] Techrights-sec Ok. Small repair needed with the paths... [21:17] schestowitz-TR2 oh, good, so we fix another thing [21:17] schestowitz-TR2 arindam was a tad confused by DB-related warnings and htmltidy showing many warnings too [21:21] schestowitz-TR2 I agree we should mograte TR next, esp. when things quiet down a bit [21:21] schestowitz-TR2 we've put lots of effort into TM, hence the sense of urgency to back up what's possible [21:21] schestowitz-TR2 I am backing up both old ones atm, but not fully, they're too large and my conneciton is copper [21:33] Techrights-sec Oops. Not paths. The SUID bit was removed the other day. Things are [21:33] Techrights-sec now set up properly in doas. [21:34] Techrights-sec Oh. I had hoped the tidy warning would have been informative. Any errors [21:34] Techrights-sec should remain visible but I suppose the warnings and other text should be [21:34] Techrights-sec supressed? Right? [21:34] Techrights-sec Hmm. Suppressing the output will require a more advanced approach. [21:48] schestowitz-TR2 no hurry, uyou wanted input from arindam [21:48] schestowitz-TR2 and he wrote about the warningsa [21:48] schestowitz-TR2 rianne too mentions these habitually [21:48] schestowitz-TR2 they think something went horribly wrong [21:48] Techrights-sec thanks ● Sep 03 [22:08] schestowitz-TR2 just published comparative overview (6years) of LF salaries [22:08] schestowitz-TR2 you asked for something to that affect [22:08] schestowitz-TR2 *efefect [22:08] Techrights-sec Thanks! [22:09] Techrights-sec The warnings from tidy are probably suppressed. Can you double-check please? [22:09] schestowitz-TR2 I will add a page now to test [22:09] Techrights-sec Thanks [22:16] schestowitz-TR2 excellent, now it's a lot less verbose: [22:16] schestowitz [y/N] y [22:16] schestowitz Waiting for database to unlock ...lock acquired [22:16] schestowitz Record added [22:16] schestowitz Creating temporary directories and files [22:16] schestowitz Creating static XHTML and GemText hierarchies [22:16] schestowitz Updating SSI files [22:16] schestowitz Writing the RSS feed for HTTP [22:16] schestowitz Wide character in print at /usr/local/bin/tm-generate-feed.pl line 131. [22:16] schestowitz Writing the Atom feed for Gemini [22:16] schestowitz Writing the Gemini index [22:16] schestowitz Pinging via MQTT [22:16] schestowitz Erasing temporary directories and their files. [22:17] Techrights-sec Thanks [22:17] Techrights-sec np [22:17] Techrights-sec I guess the text can be distracting. I am not a good basis for asessing the [22:17] Techrights-sec output because I have been using tidy since it was released. [22:17] Techrights-sec I can take another look at the wide character warning later on. [22:17] Techrights-sec The first guess did not solve it. [22:19] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [22:23] Techrights-sec Ok that was easy. Try now. [22:23] schestowitz-TR2 "annnnnnnnd, it's GONE!" (South Park ref) [22:25] schestowitz-TR2 while psoting I reccalled we paid for the phone line today, 12 months advance [22:25] schestowitz-TR2 we pay about 50 pence per day per person for Internet [22:25] schestowitz-TR2 and we use thatvery heavily on many machines [22:25] schestowitz-TR2 I hope it stays that way [22:25] schestowitz-TR2 prices did not increass emuch (nor should they) [22:25] schestowitz-TR2 my dad has a theory about the inflation and how to ensure it barely affects onself [22:25] Techrights-sec ack [22:25] Techrights-sec hopefully it was not "too" easy [22:25] Techrights-sec not bad [22:25] Techrights-sec ack [22:26] *psydroid2 has quit (connection closed) [22:26] schestowitz-TR2 iirc, in parts of the US we'd pay at least twice as much [22:26] schestowitz-TR2 and might even get woprse service for that [22:26] schestowitz-TR2 (parts of, from what I understand it's very location dependent) [22:28] Techrights-sec and there you would have intermittent service which would be slow when it [22:28] Techrights-sec works at all, assuming you live in a region with any service at all. [22:28] Techrights-sec iirc 40% are without [22:28] Techrights-sec not just locaion dependent but neighborhood dependent and the phone companies [22:28] Techrights-sec have carved up the areas into tiny monopolies. One street with one company [22:28] Techrights-sec and maybe down the block another, both with drastically different pricing and [22:28] Techrights-sec levels of service. [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 The US has competition [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 competition over blocks [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 not competition WITHIN blocks [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 redefining "free market" and "compettion" [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 it's called marketing "sharing" IIRC [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 Micreosoft tried to do that with Netscape [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 and of course in the long run there would be a dagger in the backl [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 *market sharing [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 we have this in the netscapoe petition in our wiki [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 iof course most no00bs will go to wikipeis onn these issues [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 and read a bunch of lies from Microsoft [22:30] schestowitz-TR2 guarded by W-E [22:49] Techrights-sec ack