●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Wednesday, September 07, 2022 ●● ● Sep 07 [01:21] *psydruid has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [01:34] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [01:48] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [01:58] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Sep 07 [03:01] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [03:01] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [03:07] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@freenode-rmogvn.g0d7.dtdf.mc4289.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [03:07] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@pmeqtjandsa9n.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 07 [04:56] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 07 [06:05] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114]) [06:06] *DaemonFC (~chatzilla@aayy3vgydrtjk.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [06:34] Techrights-sec see /usr/local/bin/tm-extract-posts-sql.pl.new on tm-new [06:34] Techrights-sec it is nearly a complete re-write of the script and is hopefully much more [06:34] Techrights-sec efficient; unfortunately David A Wheeler's sloccount shows that it is only [06:34] Techrights-sec about 30 lines shorter [06:34] Techrights-sec Running it with no options will create / update *new* or *updated* gemtext [06:34] Techrights-sec and xhtml files. Running it multiple times will produce no output until [06:34] Techrights-sec a record is updated, unless the -f option is used. See the -h option. [06:34] Techrights-sec No -d option means the date defaults to the current date. [06:35] schestowitz-TR2 OK I assume you made a DB backup and now I can run this new script to make new pages [06:56] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 07 [07:32] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114]) [07:34] Techrights-sec I've tested it on this end but it would need testing in actual use. [07:35] schestowitz-TR2 I ran it twice, expecting it to ask for something [07:35] schestowitz-TR2 but it just came back doing nothing [07:35] schestowitz-TR2 which I suppose is what I should expect? [07:42] schestowitz-TR2 (last day for rianne to practice; in mock exams she averages around 92%) ● Sep 07 [08:10] Techrights-sec Did it update the XHTML and GemText files? [08:10] Techrights-sec If you add -v it will make more noise. [08:10] Techrights-sec Perhaps it should mention by default how many files were written. [08:10] Techrights-sec When running it twice, the second time there will be no activity since t [08:10] Techrights-sec the files will have already been exported to the file system. [08:10] schestowitz-TR2 it runs for about 1.5 seconds and says nothing [08:10] schestowitz-TR2 gets back to terminal [08:10] schestowitz-TR2 draft (being a thorn on Microsoft's side again ;-) ) [08:12] Techrights-sec Even with -f and -v? You've run it once so there will be no action take [08:12] Techrights-sec on subsequent runs without the -f option [08:16] schestowitz-TR2 I've only run it very prudentl;y for fear (over the DB) and for geenral assurance nothing is done 'wrong' [08:16] schestowitz-TR2 as I don't really understand the underlying system [08:16] schestowitz-TR2 I can envision that in winter we can use the same in Techrights for more rapid posting [08:16] schestowitz-TR2 (the more 'opinionated' stuff) [08:16] schestowitz-TR2 my guess was, as the number of records grows (maybe 3k by now) it needs more time for queries to complete, e.g. give me all records for day x and day x-1 [08:21] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [08:27] schestowitz-TR2 posted the thing about asia [08:27] schestowitz-TR2 will revisit next month [08:27] schestowitz-TR2 I think asia will soon be orange except tw, jp, and ru [08:27] schestowitz-TR2 going to annotate with markers the ubuntu screenshots, thank you! [08:39] Techrights-sec The script also does some better interlinking between posts, most of that [08:39] Techrights-sec is inside the script itself. So it runs faster and more efficiently. The [08:39] Techrights-sec other part is with the linking inside the XHTML head. [08:40] schestowitz-TR2 draft (ubuntu) [08:40] schestowitz-TR2 let me know what commands to run as user 'roy [08:40] schestowitz-TR2 so as to not put anything at risk [08:40] schestowitz-TR2 I will soon do another manual backup and later make a script for it [08:40] schestowitz-TR2 after scripting it, maybe cron job [08:44] Techrights-sec The risk shouls be minimal, since it is intended to replace the old script. [08:44] Techrights-sec Try [08:44] Techrights-sec tm-extract-posts-sql.pl -v [08:44] Techrights-sec or [08:44] Techrights-sec tm-extract-posts-sql.pl -v -f [08:44] Techrights-sec tm-extract-posts-sql.pl -v -v [08:45] Techrights-sec tm-extract-posts-sql.pl -h [08:47] Techrights-sec with .new at the end? [08:47] schestowitz-TR2 with .new at the end? [08:47] Techrights-sec not any more. The old one is still there as .old [08:50] schestowitz-TR2 I see now, that's a lot faster [08:50] schestowitz-TR2 and does nothing unless rewrites are needed [08:50] schestowitz-TR2 I assume "-v -v" is a typo [08:50] schestowitz-TR2 did not run that one [08:50] Techrights-sec No, -v is for debugging and -v, -v -v, and -v -v -v having increasing levels [08:53] schestowitz-TR2 ok, I've run all 4 [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 and it does not complain about anything [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 I assume that any time I now add or modify an existing page it'll use this in the background, via the bahs wrapper [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 btw, rianne will be mostly mia except few things inc. android leftovers [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 she wants to ace the exam and has a day left now [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 she and I are rather amazed at how old the new PM looks [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 through she was born 2 years apart from rianne [08:54] schestowitz-TR2 liz warren is like 30 years older and you can compare [08:54] Techrights-sec Good luck on the exams [08:54] Techrights-sec ack [08:58] schestowitz [y/N] y [08:58] schestowitz Waiting for database to unlock ...lock acquired [08:58] schestowitz Record added [08:58] schestowitz Creating temporary directories and files [08:58] schestowitz Creating static XHTML and GemText hierarchies [08:58] schestowitz GemText path missing [08:58] schestowitz USAGE: [08:58] schestowitz /usr/local/bin/tm-extract-posts-sql.pl [-ahfsuv] [-d date] [-g path] [-x path] [08:58] schestowitz -a, --all extract all records regardless of other settings [08:58] schestowitz -d, --date date as YYYYMMDD, defaults to today if missing [08:58] schestowitz -f, --force force all files, written or unwritten [08:58] schestowitz -g, --gemini override default destination path for GemText [08:58] schestowitz -s, --since also include all posts since the given date [08:58] schestowitz -u, --unwritten extract all unwritten records [08:58] schestowitz -x, --xhtml override default destination path for XHTML [08:58] schestowitz -v, --verbose show debugging info [08:58] schestowitz -h, --help show this message [08:58] schestowitz By default, only records which have not been extracted yet [08:58] schestowitz will be written. This can be overriden with the -f option. [08:58] schestowitz The -g and -x options can each be used to point to other paths [08:58] schestowitz and override the defaults: [08:58] schestowitz GemText path: [08:58] schestowitz /home/gemini/gemini/n [08:58] schestowitz XHTML path: [08:58] schestowitz /var/www/tuxmacihines.org/htdocs/n [08:58] schestowitz The -a and the -u option are mutually exclusive and -a takes [08:58] schestowitz precedence. ● Sep 07 [09:02] schestowitz-TR2 --- [09:02] schestowitz-TR2 the ssi part now links to a page that does not exist, "Not found" [09:02] schestowitz-TR2 the breadcrump trail (well, not really breadcrumb, more like horizontal navigation) does not link to the new page that does not exist [09:02] schestowitz-TR2 but the ssi/footer does [09:02] schestowitz-TR2 the rss feed does not seem to link to it either [09:02] schestowitz-TR2 just gathering some debug info [09:02] Techrights-sec ack [09:02] Techrights-sec checking [09:02] Techrights-sec Which SSI part? [09:02] Techrights-sec I see now "Other Recent Tux Machines' Posts" [09:03] Techrights-sec thanks [09:10] Techrights-sec The -a option works, though takes a long time. [09:10] Techrights-sec Can you try add-and-refresh-from-db.sh ? [09:15] schestowitz see gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/09/04/RIP_Peter_Eckersley.gmi [09:15] schestowitz there is a link to the image [09:15] schestowitz but maybe with softlinks we can make these possible to serve over gemini:// ? [09:16] schestowitz in largrange is gives option to expand to show the image [09:16] schestowitz but it is relative, not absolute, and over http/s [09:17] Techrights-sec Yes, the -a option worked, but the add-and-refresh-from-db.sh needs double- [09:17] Techrights-sec checking atm. I think I have tracked down all the loose ends. [09:17] Techrights-sec Can the Gemini server handle symlinks ? [09:18] schestowitz-TR2 maybe that depends on which server [09:18] schestowitz-TR2 but surely making copies of all the images just for ~gemini would make no practical sense [09:18] Techrights-sec Gemini's not really designed for images though. [09:18] Techrights-sec I would think that the click-through rate for the images would be microscopically low and not worth the disk space. [09:20] schestowitz-TR2 I agree, so maybe the url can be converted to absolute in gemini:// / .gmi [09:20] schestowitz-TR2 so that if it's clicked on the image opened in an external program (e.g. browser, gimp..) [09:20] Techrights-sec That would be possible by retaining the HTTP/HTTPS scheme at the start of the [09:20] Techrights-sec URL [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 I just stumbled upon it by serendipity, seeing that some recent pages, where images are also links, [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 show up before the text [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 in lagrange this enables stuff like feature images in articles [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 most other clients I know of (except 2) do not have build-in image support [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 but there is nothing inherently against image objects in gemini [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 many people host their photo album and art in gemini [09:24] Techrights-sec ack [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 lupa also indexes them and lists them as a file type in geminispace [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 kristall has rudimentary build-in support for http/s, so linking to images over http/s would enable clicking to view images from within kristall [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 *build-in [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 -> built-in [09:25] schestowitz I wonder, [09:25] schestowitz gemini://gemini.tuxmachines.org/i/2022/09/logo.png [09:25] schestowitz that's what one link looks like atm [09:25] schestowitz if ~/gemini/gemini/i was created [09:26] schestowitz and was set to be like a virtual structure linking to the www side, it might work [09:29] Techrights-sec The more scraping which is done the more brittle the whole thing becomes. [09:29] Techrights-sec The IMG elements are manually generated. [09:29] Techrights-sec ~/gemini/gemini/i could by a symlink to the HTML side, but it would be better [09:29] Techrights-sec to just turn the src attribute into an absolute URL for the image over on [09:29] Techrights-sec the HTTP(S) server. That would be the least complexity and IMO the most in [09:29] Techrights-sec line with the Gemini way of doing things. [09:29] Techrights-sec Gemini is not suited for large files, and even the smallest images are [09:29] Techrights-sec gigantic. [09:30] schestowitz-TR2 yes, makes sense [09:30] schestowitz-TR2 if done this way, I can do a video demo later of how kristall and lagrance handle the images in tuxmachines [09:30] schestowitz-TR2 and maybe explain that in theory they could be served over gemini:// albeit impractical [09:31] Techrights-sec An image is a separate document in Gemini. There are no provisions for inline [09:31] Techrights-sec images or anyting other than the body text and a very small number of structures [09:32] schestowitz-TR2 that is a client-level feature [09:32] schestowitz-TR2 left for the client to decide [09:32] schestowitz-TR2 with some settings [09:32] schestowitz-TR2 in lagrrance the image is rendered only ig you scroll, hit space bar, or arrow keys, by default [09:32] schestowitz-TR2 bbl exercise [09:33] Techrights-sec As far as I can tell it is a design feature of the protocol. The image will [09:33] Techrights-sec always be an external document distinct from the body. [09:42] Techrights-sec ack ● Sep 07 [10:25] schestowitz-TR2 arindam has just added a page [10:25] schestowitz-TR2 it was updated OK in rss and html, have not checked gmi yet [10:25] schestowitz-TR2 but I assume that too will be OK [10:25] schestowitz-TR2 I will soon add some pages, take note of duration of process [10:25] Techrights-sec ack [10:25] Techrights-sec checking [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 rianne just got her certificate [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 arindam posted a second new page OK [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 having enrolled him as a user with limit to two commands, we can replicate the same for any future users [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 but we need to be 'conservative' in who we give access too not for sec reasons but editorial/QA reasons [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 due to past experiences [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 like vetting [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 there were people I gave drupal access to, which I later regretted [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 because they posted junk [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 and I didn't want to get in the way like editorial censor [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 so left in tact some shitty things [10:34] schestowitz-TR2 sometimes just cautioned about future additions, e.g. "please in the future, no WSL" [10:47] Techrights-sec Yes, spam is to be avoided. [10:48] schestowitz-TR2 the rationale was,. [10:48] schestowitz-TR2 WSL is Windows [10:48] schestowitz-TR2 Windows is against Linux [10:48] schestowitz-TR2 We don't do Windows [10:48] schestowitz-TR2 WSL is a misnomer, too [10:48] Techrights-sec Yes WSL /is/ WIndows and further it is strategic in heading off GNU/Linux [10:48] Techrights-sec installations. [10:48] Techrights-sec It should be LSW, based on how it works. [10:48] Techrights-sec (or fails to work) [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 it'll die in a year or few years [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 based on lack of visibility [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 ryan says amazon just laid off 100,000 workers [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 but could not yield any reference for that [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 msft is laying off 10%, i.e. about 18k [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 in "startegic" units [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 maybe wsl already got the cull, quietly [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 the tumour must now spread and metastasise through those that have momentum [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 e.g. former Canonical [10:51] schestowitz-TR2 former Red Hat [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 --- [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 ryan is full of shit sometimes and I think his environment and the media is to blame [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 like, theyu incite him agaionst "greeedy" and "lazy" teachers [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 he is missing the point [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 my aunt was a teacher in FL and complained about how parents would contact her ourt of hours [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 and she had to work up exams out of working outs [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 all for a meager salary [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 this ios the sort of press that I saw yestewrday when I looked for "more" 'news'... [10:55] schestowitz-TR2 at least ryan used two other channels yesterday, for more off-topic stuff ● Sep 07 [11:00] Techrights-sec The Reagan administration slashed education by 40% if I recall correctly, [11:00] Techrights-sec it has been whittled down every year since. Then certain parts (all) of the [11:00] Techrights-sec media has agitated against the teachers ever since. The US is crossing a [11:01] Techrights-sec tipping point. There have been two full generations of people without access [11:01] Techrights-sec to basic education. A third is on the way. No 1st world nation can survive [11:01] Techrights-sec that level of pervasive, militant ignornance. [11:01] Techrights-sec Anyway, soon pushing changes to the work flow to convert images to bare [11:01] Techrights-sec links labeled by their ALT or TITLE attributes. In gemini, that is. [11:01] Techrights-sec s/ignornance/ignorance/ [11:03] schestowitz-TR2 this way more might vote for insurreection, support gun mania etc. [11:03] schestowitz-TR2 regarding gemini, should we manually add title/alt? alt is blank by default, maybe it can copy the base filename (prior to dot) [11:03] schestowitz-TR2 GOP: if we win, we win, owing to ignorant masses. If we lose, bear arms! "Own the libs" by taking on the Capitol. [11:04] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:05] schestowitz-TR2 Times Higher Education: now some unis hire CLOWNS. They actually use the term. They want CLOWNS... to outsource the uni infra to CLOWN COMPUTING. IOW, they don't need to know ANY computing, just sign a GAFAM contract. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/unijobs/listing/308195/cloud-administrator-linux-and-hpc/?trackid=10&utm_source=the-jobs-service [11:05] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.timeshighereducation.com | Cloud Administrator, Linux and HPC job with SWINBURNE UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY | 308195 [11:05] *DaemonFC (~chatzilla@xt2jdah827z9u.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:06] schestowitz-TR2 Tech admin 1990s: CS background. Tech admin 2000: MBA. Tech admin 2022: clown. Sign contracts to outsource everything to CLOWN computing. [11:16] schestowitz Waiting for database to unlock ...lock acquired [11:16] schestowitz Failure: missing or empty ALT attribute in IMG. Add it to proceed. [11:16] schestowitz press RETURN [11:16] schestowitz Record added [11:16] schestowitz Creating temporary directories and files [11:16] schestowitz Creating static XHTML and GemText hierarchies [11:16] schestowitz Destination '/home/gemini/gemini/n/2022/09/07/Today_in_Techrights.gmi' is not writable [11:16] schestowitz 'Today_in_Techrights' could not be written [11:16] schestowitz Updating SSI files [11:16] schestowitz Writing the RSS feed for HTTP [11:16] schestowitz Writing the Atom feed for Gemini [11:16] schestowitz Writing the Gemini index [11:16] schestowitz Pinging via MQTT [11:16] schestowitz Error: Problem setting TLS options: File not found. [11:16] schestowitz Erasing temporary directories and their files. [11:16] schestowitz-TR2 oh, I see [11:16] schestowitz-TR2 not it demands alt in/after nano [11:16] schestowitz-TR2 *now [11:23] schestowitz -rw-rw-r-- 1 arindam gemtext 968 Sep 7 10:22 GNOME_43_Misses_Window_to_Merge_Ubuntu_s_Triple_Buffering_Patch.gmi [11:23] schestowitz -rw-rw-r-- 1 arindam gemtext 890 Sep 7 10:22 KDE_s_Kaidan_Messaging_App_Plans_for_Encrypted_Audio_and_Video_.gmi [11:23] schestowitz -rw-rw-r-- 1 roy gemtext 2278 Sep 7 10:22 Programming_Leftovers.gmi [11:23] schestowitz -rw-rw-r-- 1 roy gemtext 1324 Sep 7 10:22 ROCK_4_SE_Single_Board_Computer_goes_on_sale_for_70.gmi [11:23] schestowitz -rw-rw-r-- 1 roy gemtext 866 Sep 7 10:22 Synaptic_kind_of_working_on_EasyOS_Dunfell_series.gmi [11:23] schestowitz -rw-rw-r-- 1 roy gemtext 1227 Sep 7 10:22 Tere_A_Faster_Alternative_to_cd_ls_in_Linux.gmi [11:23] schestowitz -rw-r--r-- 1 tuxmachines gemtext 832 Sep 7 09:28 Today_in_Techrights.gmi [11:24] schestowitz-TR2 -rw-r--r-- and owned by TM, that's OK [11:24] schestowitz-TR2 must have been something amended at your end [11:25] Techrights-sec yes [11:25] Techrights-sec That requiring ALT is necessary both for accessibility but also for the [11:25] Techrights-sec linking changes requested today. [11:25] Techrights-sec Checking the permissions... [11:26] schestowitz-TR2 if the upload tool is used in interactive mode later, maybe "enter url", "enter short desc", .. [11:26] schestowitz-TR2 got daily links [11:27] Techrights-sec The manual activity trips up because of umask. Not sure what to fix it with. [11:28] schestowitz-TR2 I thought it was a symptom of a bigger issue [11:28] schestowitz-TR2 also, for marius, rianne and arindam it can be intimidating to see this when adding the next 50 odd posts [11:29] schestowitz-TR2 and then ask questions [11:31] Techrights-sec The validation is necessary though. Perhaps the warning can be made [11:31] Techrights-sec more appealing somehow? [11:34] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [11:34] schestowitz-TR2 I was referring to the permission issue associated with read-only for group owned by TM account [11:34] schestowitz-TR2 and how often it would repeat thereafter if left unaltered [11:34] schestowitz-TR2 the ALT-related warning is very clear [11:34] schestowitz-TR2 and maybe best tackled by giving a prompt for some text, with intiiaial default value being the name of the file [11:34] schestowitz-TR2 in gemini, I noticed it links to the thumbnail ratheer than the full-sized version [11:34] schestowitz-TR2 (I plan to do a video about this later, with kristall and lagrange; I have about 9 gemini clients installed on this box) [11:35] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:35] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114]) [11:35] Techrights-sec ack [11:35] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@xt2jdah827z9u.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:37] Techrights-sec The processing has to choose an XPath. //a[@href] is not an image but [11:37] Techrights-sec a hyperlink. //img[@src] on the other hand *is* an image. There's not [11:37] Techrights-sec really any reliable way to use the former to guess at what might or might not [11:37] Techrights-sec be an image, except to fetch the image and analyze it with 'file' or similar [11:37] Techrights-sec tool. [11:38] schestowitz-TR2 brb coffee [11:38] schestowitz-TR2 I'm back to coffee (from tea) after about 5 weeks [11:38] schestowitz-TR2 also breakfast, started posting the daily links, will do another full batch after midday [11:38] schestowitz-TR2 then might record, lots of rain her this week [11:38] Techrights-sec ack [11:38] schestowitz-TR2 *here ● Sep 07 [12:28] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) ● Sep 07 [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 just experienced non-fatal editing conflict [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 as before [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 nothing went bad [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 I was editing at the same time as rianne [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 what happens then it, [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 one side, when posting gets alerted and the other put on hold in the interim [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 it's only mindboggling when one did not experience it before [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 yes, it's all fine at the end [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 but one side is shown an error when it generates something [13:10] schestowitz-TR2 though it seems like either a false alarm or something that settles itself when the editor put "on hold" is done finalising the record addition [13:10] Techrights-sec Ol, but it resolves automatically, after a bit right? [13:10] Techrights-sec Great. [13:10] Techrights-sec I'm pretty sure that kind of thing is a limitation of sqlite. PostgreSQL [13:10] Techrights-sec can handle concurrent users better but is *way* heavier. [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 static page generator does not need postgres or mariadb [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 because very few people ever access the db [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 and the db itself is critical only in the data integrity sense [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 in TM (soon TR) person A adds one row to one table (unless there are foreign keys etc) [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 db is then queried [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 done until a new row gets added [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 so write operations per day are few [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 and read operations less than 99% of the day [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 in drupal every page access is a write, e.g. for logs/stats [13:14] schestowitz-TR2 which makes the system more brittle [13:14] Techrights-sec Yes [13:14] Techrights-sec Probably someone skilled with SQLite3 could refine the interaction and locking [13:14] Techrights-sec better so that it goes more smoothly. [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 we pay a high price for complexity in June when the DB was starting to bite itself off [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 and lost thousands of records, sort of glued them back together after many were lost [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 that's why I rolled back [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 only after meticullously making static page for each new record added since [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 it took a ton of time, energy, sleepless nights (not literally) [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 when I studied CS (2000) they gave us a homedir [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 over NFS [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 that had public_html [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 so cs.man.ac.uk (dead domain) ~username had your homepage in it [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 cgi, html, etc. [13:18] schestowitz-TR2 no databases [13:21] Techrights-sec [13:21] Techrights-sec The static nature reduces the load a lot, so it could run fine even if it had [13:21] Techrights-sec stayed on the RPi. [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 drupal and wordpress do not have a real dir structure, it's considered virtual and it's embedded in software or config files, e.g. for apache [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 in the past you literally had to change apache configs for those [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 with no simple conversion from virtual to direct/physical [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 with some of the heavy DBs I don't even know how good a conversion one gets [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 e.g. CSV [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 as opposed to a long series of sql statements [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 creatd table... [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 add... [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 which is how you load the pertinent data into "the blob" [13:23] schestowitz-TR2 re [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 ==== [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 The static nature reduces the load a lot, so it could run fine even if it had [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 stayed on the RPi. [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 ---- [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 when I studied CS PCs had one processor core [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 not 96 cores at 3GHz [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 browsers rendered descriptions of pages, sometimes gzip'ed to help with bandwidth [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 text compresses well [13:24] schestowitz-TR2 esp. if single language and many of the same elements,e g

[13:24] Techrights-sec Yes, back then computing environments were much more advanced yet simpler. [13:24] Techrights-sec HTTP is useless as an API because it is, at its foundation, stateless. [13:24] Techrights-sec Any semblance of sessions is a kludge at best. [13:24] Techrights-sec In the middle 1990's servers ran fine with Megabytes of RAM, measured in [13:24] Techrights-sec single digits. [13:27] u-amarsh04 may middle 1980's, the VAX 8600 I used in 1986 already had 16 Megabytes of RAM [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 we've moved from ssedans to SUVs [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 and sometimes the driver is the sole person on the road [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 we need to get that old car back [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 not smart [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 not SUV [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 just a means of tranportation [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 gemini is not the only technical counterculture [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 gnunet had a new release [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 but last I checked it was still sonky [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 *sonky [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 >wonky [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 it is also connected to gnu taler, which isn't some pile of steaming shit burning off fossil fuel/coal-generated currnt for "valuable" 0s and 1s [13:28] schestowitz-TR2 u-amarsh04: my first PC was 4 colours [13:29] u-amarsh04 I ran monochrome for several years [13:29] schestowitz-TR2 before I had my own PC the friends' PCs were monoccrome [13:29] schestowitz-TR2 CGA came later [13:29] schestowitz-TR2 then EGA and VGA [13:29] schestowitz-TR2 iirc, EGA was 8 colours [13:30] schestowitz-TR2 the CGA monitors had a green-only mode at the back [13:30] schestowitz-TR2 the PC itself had "turbo" mode [13:30] schestowitz-TR2 somehow all this was enough to keep us entertained and occupied [13:33] Techrights-sec ack ● Sep 07 [14:08] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [14:13] schestowitz-TR2 yesterday rianne and I spokem in the kitchen about the effect of inflation in our household [14:13] schestowitz-TR2 thinking aloud [14:13] schestowitz-TR2 turns out, we pay more or less the same fod food by 'cheating' the "system" with bargain hunting [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 and energy bills probably rose by no more than 20% this past year [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 maybe more, but it seems def. not more than 30% [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 many of the other expenses are all the same [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 so to us, given these circumstance, the relative inflation is like a negligible 50 pounds a month, maybe less [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 my dad is the same, he does not drive much and avoids "brands" [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 lots of articles today about truss/trump, with too much (imho) focus on energy prices [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 when the issues are a lot more profound than that [14:14] schestowitz-TR2 i wonder ;cuit bono' when all focus is shifted to money, esp. energy [14:30] Techrights-sec ack [14:53] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [14:53] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Sep 07 [15:17] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [15:24] *Noisytoot has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) [15:25] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [15:49] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [15:49] schestowitz-TR2 my name is a dyin breed [15:49] schestowitz-TR2 rianne's name has a similar meaning but the female version [15:50] schestowitz-TR2 https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2012/10/27/coincidence-in-names/ [15:50] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Coincidence in Names ● Sep 07 [16:10] Techrights-sec ack [16:13] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [16:32] *Mio14 (~quassel@freenode-fn5.t1t.i4ua3j.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [16:39] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [16:51] Techrights-sec Should the navigation menu in tm-new have a hyperlink to the latest post? [16:51] Techrights-sec On the one hand, it'd be one more thing to break and would take navigation.html [16:51] Techrights-sec out of Git. On the other hand, it could be generated as part of the update process. [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 good thing you brought that up [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 earlier today rianne said she could barely find her new page [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 as it was further down the list [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 I said it's roganised by more complex criteria [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 like number of updates, a surrogate for importance [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 the latest story has no meaning [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 as it's not chronological in the news sense [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 just the posting sense [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 so other sorting criteria or clustering might help [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 in www.tuxmachines.org I set apart latest and updated but a better [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 criteria might sort them roughly into categories [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 e.g. today's leftovers [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 howtos [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 and cluster them in the front page, maybe even ssi [16:54] schestowitz-TR2 ssi [16:55] Techrights-sec The sorting is currently handled in SQL and not so much in Perl. [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 a few sieves (e.g. through titles) can help toss them into buckets [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 and then present a more clustered view based on patterns [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 without us having to enter tags or select categories [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 I thought about doing that in www.tm as I had already scanned for the word "UPDATED" (case sensitive, too) [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 the headline style has been consistent since susan ran it [16:57] schestowitz-TR2 so there is room for grouping stuff and not computionally-expensive, least of the factor being the one-off nature of static page generators [16:58] Techrights-sec The updated records float to the top as it stands now. ● Sep 07 [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 time alone (or last updated) is a criterion that mnight not help organise the brain [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 I've long comp[lained that social control media was a sea/ocean of unrelated bullshiot [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 and the mind could not focus on a flow like literature... [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 one moment trump, then this other thing, then trump again, then a friend's photo... [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 in the case of GNU/Linux we had people who subscribe over rss to just on categroy or a set of categories of choice [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 but that is not the same thing [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 nor are the linux "homepages" that clsuetrr based on sources [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 rather than cluster based on themes, stories etc. [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 gulag noise USED to try to cluster relted stories [17:01] schestowitz-TR2 now it's optimised not to actually help the user! [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 case of poiint, some people LOOOOOVE howtos [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 they're HUNGRERY for them [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 and they say they are hungry for them [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 because they try to learn [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 and practice [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 and read up [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 and tinker [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 but people like me just mostly shelve them [17:03] schestowitz-TR2 OTOH, some people use Android, and more people over time, so to them a bunch of Android news can help [17:04] schestowitz-TR2 it is, after all, based on Linux [17:04] schestowitz-TR2 clustering let's people either focus or ignore something [17:04] schestowitz-TR2 "this shit isn't for me" [17:04] schestowitz-TR2 "oh, I LOVE this distro!" [17:05] schestowitz-TR2 it would probably be computationally cheap to split up the "more posts from TM" into 2-3 divs, with a crude automated attempt to classift them a bit [17:05] schestowitz-TR2 based on some logical, practical taxonomy [17:33] Techrights-sec ack [17:33] Techrights-sec Though only if they were updated in the last day or so. [17:33] Techrights-sec Otherwise, they stay where they are in the sequence. [17:36] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [17:56] schestowitz-TR2 gulag says it indexed about 2000 pages in the new site, plus many images [17:56] schestowitz-TR2 it's not something I truly care about, but that comes to show how "reputation" ranks [17:56] schestowitz-TR2 OTA ● Sep 07 [18:21] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [18:27] schestowitz-TR2 Microsoft Windows TCO, but the Microsofters leave that part out https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2022/09/the-lockbit-ransomware-gang-is-surprisingly-professional.html [18:27] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-The LockBit Ransomware Gang Is Surprisingly Professional - Schneier on Security [18:42] schestowitz https://make.wordpress.org/security/2022/09/07/dropping-security-updates-for-wordpress-versions-3-7-through-4-0/ [18:42] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-make.wordpress.org | Dropping security updates for WordPress versions 3.7 through 4.0 Making WordPress Secure [18:42] schestowitz push comes to shove [18:42] schestowitz let us shove bloated shit down your throats [18:42] schestowitz react, JS, clown... [18:42] schestowitz or else [18:43] Techrights-sec ack [18:43] Techrights-sec Looking at this: [18:43] Techrights-sec Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 5,214 [18:43] Techrights-sec Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 1.13 (13.59) [18:43] Techrights-sec (Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05)) [18:43] Techrights-sec Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 0.56 (6.74) [18:43] Techrights-sec (Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38)) [18:43] Techrights-sec Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 2.02 [18:43] Techrights-sec from D.A.W. sloccount [18:44] schestowitz-TR2 working from an office is not about productivity but about beint controlled [18:44] Techrights-sec Agreed ● Sep 07 [19:09] Techrights-sec Inline images are not part of the Gemini spec and should not be expected to [19:09] Techrights-sec work or render in any clients; There was talk about other extenions in the [19:09] Techrights-sec past before the mailing list was shut down. They were all rejected in favor [19:09] Techrights-sec of maintaining the clean simplicity offered by the current specs. [19:09] Techrights-sec https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/gemtext.gmi [19:09] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-gemini.circumlunar.space | A quick introduction to "gemtext" markup [19:09] Techrights-sec https://gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/specification.gmi [19:09] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-gemini.circumlunar.space | Project Gemini [19:09] schestowitz-TR2 s/shut down/coredumped/ [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 in some sense, the mailing list outlived its need [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 due to s/n ratio [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 because of antenna [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 using https archives [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 or email [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 where you can discuss the issues across capsules [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 seemed somewhat unnecessary [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 but many are accustomed to mailing lists [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 they can be a lot of work to keep abrease of [19:12] schestowitz-TR2 and a lot of b/w wasted due to how it handles threading [19:14] Techrights-sec Anyway, in Gemini there is no such thing as inline graphics, so it would [19:14] Techrights-sec be unwise to promote the false idea. [19:14] Techrights-sec Almost, there were still a lot of uses for it, but if the purpose was to [19:14] Techrights-sec define or polish the specification then, yes, it was done. [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 discussing the spcs can be done using bugzilla or other such tools [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 like gitlab [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 nbot that I'm a fna of it [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 better org [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 de-dupe [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 organisation [19:14] schestowitz-TR2 and s/n ratio [19:16] Techrights-sec Though there is still the bug about large files. [19:16] Techrights-sec Mail is better threaded than the competing options, for the most part. It [19:16] Techrights-sec is all about avoiding web mail and using a proper client with sorting, filtering [19:16] Techrights-sec and other capabilities. [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 chats and email lists feel different [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 but like bosses who sell to us "productivity" (when all they seek is spying on "the people I own") [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 the purpose of these isn't to enhance productivity [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 I nthink you youirself (or a feed from your opml) [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 mentioned how it was time to give up on self-hosting email [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 because the "oligarchy" or "oligopoly" won [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 so what email used to be is not relevant to the present [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 now they expect you to register with gulag or gatesEpsteinMail to get through to recipient [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 and that means more spying and manipulation beyond ads [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 an fucking around with good old protocols [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 fgor business reasona alone [19:18] schestowitz-TR2 "we OWN these now" [19:30] Techrights-sec There was another article about giving up self-hosting. [19:30] Techrights-sec (e-mail that is) [19:30] Techrights-sec Self-hosting in general is getting harder and it seems that things are lining [19:30] Techrights-sec up to prevent it in any form during the coming decade or so, unless the [19:30] Techrights-sec direction we are heading changes. [19:31] schestowitz-TR2 but was self-hosting from home common at all in the dial-up era? I think not. [19:31] schestowitz-TR2 in some senses, we've made advances [19:38] *Mio14 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [19:40] Techrights-sec It was not really feasible during the dialup era. Though for a large fee [19:40] Techrights-sec one could get a dedicated data line. [19:40] Techrights-sec In contrast, today from an infrastructural perspecitive it is trivial to host [19:40] Techrights-sec at home. The main risk is overprovisioning. There is a lot to gain from [19:40] Techrights-sec economy of scale at data centers, but that comes at the loss of control and [19:40] Techrights-sec privacy. Around 20+ years ago, most major companies refused to use online [19:40] Techrights-sec databases because they were concerned about how much competitive advantage [19:40] Techrights-sec they would lose by leaking all their activities to external observers. [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 I think we need to rock the boat and bit [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 and urge others to do the same [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 for self-hosting to be "a thing" [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 then, there will be too many shouting "plebs" [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 to outright ban the practice [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 same for: [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 rejection of SpyMeters [19:41] schestowitz-TR2 ejection is 'self [sic] service' [sic] checkouts [19:43] Techrights-sec Agreed. Though it is getting harder with the two remaining major browsers [19:43] Techrights-sec under control of the same company. A company so hostile to self-hosting [19:43] Techrights-sec that it gives grief to self-signed certificates while allowing all manner [19:43] Techrights-sec of dodgy CAs to be represented in each browser. Further, other projects [19:43] Techrights-sec like wget and paho don't deal with self-signed (self-vouched for) certificates [19:43] Techrights-sec or even popular stuff like Let's Encrypt. [19:44] schestowitz-TR2 wget and curl both have options [19:44] schestowitz-TR2 you can alter defaultas [19:44] schestowitz-TR2 (I've always felt quiet resentment over how Snowden bragged his leaks stirred up shit for SSL everywhere [19:44] schestowitz-TR2 to the point it was exploited for another KIND of power grab) [19:46] schestowitz-TR2 [15:21] When you expose the surveillance state https://www.techdirt.com/2022/09/06/new-book-says-nsa-pressured-gchq-to-shut-down-publication-of-snowden-leaks-by-uk-journalists/ | Source: Techdirt [19:46] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-New Book Says NSA Pressured GCHQ To Shut Down Publication Of Snowden Leaks By UK Journalists | Techdirt [19:46] schestowitz-TR2 [15:21] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- New Book Says NSA Pressured GCHQ To Shut Down Publication Of Snowden Leaks By UK Journalists | Techdirt [19:48] Techrights-sec The option with wget is to /ignore/ the certificates. That's not a feasible [19:48] Techrights-sec solution for either self-vouched for certificates or certificates which [19:48] Techrights-sec have been vouched for by Let's Encrypt. [19:48] Techrights-sec Those leaks were quickly brushed under the rug and the highlighted transgressions normalized. [19:48] Techrights-sec The point of SSL everywhere is not privacy, something which is obviated [19:48] Techrights-sec by the CA list. The point of SSL everywhere is to ban sites which have [19:48] Techrights-sec not been subjugated to an 'authorized' business or organization's CA. [19:48] Techrights-sec Again, it's about control. And censorship. [19:48] Techrights-sec And turning the Internet, but first the Web, read-only. [19:49] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 as you say, and you tell me nothing I didn't think of already ( :) ), we're just waiting for some events to validate these concerns [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 like Lenovo with Windows-only laptops [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 either way, yes, it is about control and the more people resist, the better [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 EFF and FSF won't do a thing sadly [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 or barely a thing [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 FSF even outsourced IRC to some lousy gits [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 I didn't likie freenode even before the scandals [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 but it was a network effect thing [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 there was only one major network [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 to the point where freenode was implicit when you mentioned irc [19:51] schestowitz-TR2 except maybe in non-techj context or games [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 ----- [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 of note: wikileaks configured its own irc network, but some pedo (siggi, iceland) was controlled by fbi to spy on that network [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 maybe also direct messages between people on that network [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 not sure if his perversion was used for enhanced blackmail [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 they put him behind bars eventually, regardless... [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 some others died, like @6 in twitter.... lamo [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 ardian [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 adrian [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 I spoke to him a few times [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 not a pleasnat person [19:54] schestowitz-TR2 a snake [19:55] Techrights-sec Meanwhile, 'chat control' is wending its way through the EU bureaucracy. [19:55] Techrights-sec EFF and FSF are quiet on that topic too. [19:55] Techrights-sec Freenode was abused to centralize IRC. Several powerful interests dislike [19:55] Techrights-sec and/or are disturbed by decentralized services and appear to fight them by [19:55] Techrights-sec various means. [19:55] Techrights-sec Or if that was a means to control him and steer him to enter the organization [19:55] Techrights-sec on their behalf? [19:55] Techrights-sec Like m$ used M$ Peter and probably held threats over him to get him into [19:55] Techrights-sec somewhere, anywhere, and writing to further their agenda. [19:57] schestowitz-TR2 we can only ever speculate about that [19:57] schestowitz-TR2 i'll get back to posting links in TM noiw [19:57] schestowitz-TR2 rianne is doing more practice [19:57] schestowitz-TR2 and we'll see the attorney on friday to finalise things [19:57] schestowitz-TR2 for this exa they give the result on the spot [19:57] schestowitz-TR2 she will get easy pass [19:57] Techrights-sec Speculate but there seem to have been lots of circumstantial material, [19:57] Techrights-sec especially retrospectively, pointing to that conclusion. [19:57] Techrights-sec ack [19:59] schestowitz-TR2 circumstantial material -> trolled in socail control media [19:59] schestowitz-TR2 police files -> trolls silent in social control media, look for other targets [19:59] schestowitz-TR2 'softer' targets ● Sep 07 [20:16] schestowitz-TR2 of note but unimportant: [20:16] schestowitz-TR2 a) takes about a quarter the time it did before to add a new TM page [20:16] schestowitz-TR2 b) I've just added a gif file, it took over a minute to convert that animated gif [20:16] schestowitz-TR2 c) server has 32 cpu cores, iirc (top, press 1) [20:16] schestowitz-TR2 d) rianne will be back to posting as normal this weekend [20:20] Techrights-sec ack [20:27] Techrights-sec b) which script? [20:27] schestowitz-TR2 thwe test uploader [20:27] schestowitz-TR2 I've just checked resultant file sizes [20:30] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [20:45] schestowitz https://twitter.com/gvlx/status/1566481951434936320 [20:45] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@gvlx: Trouble on LF? https://t.co/WfgkHbeDKy via @schestowitz #OpenSource @linuxfoundation [20:45] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> techrights.org | Jim Zemlins Salary More Than Doubled in Just 5 Years (From $500,000 to $1,150,000 in Six Years), Unlike Linus Torvalds | Techrights ● Sep 07 [22:17] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@apdnczqs59t64.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [22:17] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) [22:18] *DaemonFC (~chatzilla@apdnczqs59t64.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [22:31] *psydroid2 has quit (connection closed) ● Sep 07 [23:03] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [23:04] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [23:37] *spazz has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [23:40] *spazz (~spazz@urifce6zxwtdi.irc) has joined #boycottnovell