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| *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell | Feb 24 01:18 | |
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| schestowitz-pi2 | psydruid: https://www.manutd.com/en/matches/matchcenter?matchId=2336399 | Feb 24 01:45 |
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| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.manutd.com | Manchester United vs Barcelona - UEFA Europa League 23 February 2023 | Manchester United | Manchester United | Feb 24 01:45 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | 4-3 | Feb 24 01:45 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | https://www.manutd.com/en/matches/matchcenter?matchId=2336399# | Feb 24 01:46 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.manutd.com | Manchester United vs Barcelona - UEFA Europa League 23 February 2023 | Manchester United | Manchester United | Feb 24 01:46 | |
| schestowitz-TR2 | the sad reality of work https://dilbert.com/strip/2023-02-22 | Feb 24 02:16 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Dilbert Does Great Work - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2023-02-22 | Dilbert by Scott Adams | Feb 24 02:16 | |
| schestowitz-TR2 | i did a part and a meme about this in the sirius series | Feb 24 02:16 |
| schestowitz-TR2 | i learned this first hand | Feb 24 02:16 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | [02:58] <schestowitz-pi2> re http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/02/24/FOSSDA_Project_Introduced.shtml | Feb 24 02:59 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-news.tuxmachines.org | Tux Machines — FOSSDA Project Introduced | Feb 24 02:59 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | [02:59] <schestowitz-pi2> the founder is a bit of a Microsoft (CodePlex IIRC), but i have had her in my feeds. just a word of caution | Feb 24 02:59 |
| techrights[sec] | re: FOSSDA so then the goal would be revisionism and injecting that revisionism | Feb 24 03:24 |
| techrights[sec] | into the official record | Feb 24 03:24 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | could be | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | judging by her blog this past two years | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's lawyerism | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and corporate-freiendly openwashing at times | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | not very keen on GPL iirc | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | christine hall just gave that some coverage | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but hall = former OSI | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and the site, foss force, almost always attacked RMS | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | even ifit was "brucie" doing tyhe attacks | Feb 24 03:25 |
| techrights[sec] | Exactly: revisionist history | Feb 24 03:25 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | iirc, mozilla is sponsoring this | Feb 24 03:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | unless I conflate this with other news | Feb 24 03:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | let me check | Feb 24 03:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | "I am thrilled to announce that, with generous support from Mozilla and the Apache Foundation, we have officially launched FOSSDA, the Free and Open Source Stories Digital Archive. It's time to tell the story of the free and open source movement!" http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2023/02/23/Browsers_Google_Chrome_and_Mozilla_Firefox.shtml | Feb 24 03:26 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-news.tuxmachines.org | Tux Machines — Browsers: Google/Chrome and Mozilla/Firefox | Feb 24 03:26 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the open source movement | Feb 24 03:27 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | yay! the github movement | Feb 24 03:27 |
| techrights[sec] | So Google weighs in, via Mozilla. Google was only possible because of FOSS but | Feb 24 03:34 |
| techrights[sec] | there are so many microsofters there now that the culture has become decidedly | Feb 24 03:34 |
| techrights[sec] | anti-FOSS and all the good people left ages ago. | Feb 24 03:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | gulag laid off dibona | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | he was anti-rms | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but their chief 'FOSS' person last I checked | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | Gulag has a nose for money | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | noithing else | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's not even gulag anymore | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's "ALPHABET" | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and watch who was put in charge of YouTUbe | Feb 24 03:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | like Mozilla putting MARKETING and AD people from FB and Twitter in change of Firefox | Feb 24 03:35 |
| techrights[sec] | The presence of M$ culture there also explains the pervasive sexual harassment | Feb 24 03:36 |
| techrights[sec] | and misconduct. | Feb 24 03:36 |
| techrights[sec] | . Nym-shifting to avoid various things. | Feb 24 03:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | can you take a look at signs that fossda is revisionism? | Feb 24 03:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | then we can point out who's behind it | Feb 24 03:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | who funds it | Feb 24 03:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and caution a priori | Feb 24 03:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i saw the press release, foss force, then the mozilla thing i just linked to | Feb 24 03:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's still early enough for preventive 'strike' | Feb 24 03:42 |
| techrights[sec] | THe microsofters present there can be called out as such and their antaganism | Feb 24 03:46 |
| techrights[sec] | to the movement, its principles, and (especially) its principals disqualifies | Feb 24 03:46 |
| techrights[sec] | them even from participation let alone taking the lead. Again, this looks like | Feb 24 03:46 |
| techrights[sec] | the main goal is rewriting history in the image of His Billness. | Feb 24 03:46 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | did they or she sign the anti-RMS petition? | Feb 24 03:46 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | also, if there already hostile material under that name/unberella? | Feb 24 03:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | does that mention work with Microsoft? | Feb 24 03:50 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or is it more like Breton removing the Rothschild Bank from his | Feb 24 03:50 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | resume? | Feb 24 03:50 |
| techrights[sec] | Not sure yet. | Feb 24 03:51 |
| techrights[sec] | Some background writing: | Feb 24 03:51 |
| techrights[sec] | https://fossa.com/blog/oss-license-compliance-expert-heather-meeker-agpl/ | Feb 24 03:51 |
| techrights[sec] | and background material: | Feb 24 03:51 |
| techrights[sec] | https://www.techlawpartners.com/heather | Feb 24 03:51 |
| techrights[sec] | https://heathermeeker.com/a-brief-history-of-java-licensing/ | Feb 24 03:51 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-OSS License Compliance Expert Heather Meeker on the AGPL - FOSSA | Feb 24 03:51 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.techlawpartners.com | Heather Meeker — Tech Law Partners LLP | Feb 24 03:51 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-heathermeeker.com | A Brief History of Java Licensing – Copyleft Currents | Feb 24 03:51 | |
| techrights[sec] | https://heathermeeker.com/open-source-faq/what-should-my-company-know-about-open-source/ | Feb 24 03:51 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-heathermeeker.com | What should my company know about open source? – Copyleft Currents | Feb 24 03:51 | |
| techrights[sec] | https://heathermeeker.com/open-source-faq/what-are-the-most-difficult-questions-in-open-source-licensing/ | Feb 24 03:51 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-heathermeeker.com | What are the most difficult questions in open source licensing? – Copyleft Currents | Feb 24 03:51 | |
| techrights[sec] | https://heathermeeker.com/open-source-faq/basic-open-source-software-licensing/ | Feb 24 03:51 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-heathermeeker.com | Basic open source software licensing – Copyleft Currents | Feb 24 03:51 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i followed her blog for years | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | iirc, she did 'consulting' or more for microsoft | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | she struck me as a corporate, nose-for-money shill | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | not a community person | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | we "smell" | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | reminds me of sandler | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | getting millions on the backs of volunteers | Feb 24 03:56 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | without ever coding anything | Feb 24 03:56 |
| techrights[sec] | licensing/ | Feb 24 03:57 |
| techrights[sec] | https://fossa.com/blog/heather-meeker-open-source-license-notices-automation/A | Feb 24 03:57 |
| techrights[sec] | missing: https://conferences.law.stanford.edu/bestpractices2021/sessions/track-3a/ | Feb 24 03:57 |
| techrights[sec] | some text, audio, and video: | Feb 24 03:57 |
| techrights[sec] | https://www.pli.edu/faculty/heather-j.-meeker-i288590 | Feb 24 03:57 |
| techrights[sec] | But to answer the one question, her name does not seem to be on the anti-RMS | Feb 24 03:57 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell- ( status 404 @ https://fossa.com/blog/heather-meeker-open-source-license-notices-automation/a/ ) | Feb 24 03:57 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-conferences.law.stanford.edu | Track A: AI, IP, and Data Interoperability - Digital Economy Best Practices 2021 Digital Economy Best Practices 2021 | Feb 24 03:57 | |
| techrights[sec] | letter. | Feb 24 03:57 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.pli.edu | Heather J. Meeker - Practising Law Institute | Feb 24 03:57 | |
| techrights[sec] | https://fossa.com/blog/heather-meeker-open-source-license-notices-automation/ | Feb 24 03:58 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Heather Meeker on Open Source License Notices and Automation - FOSSA | Feb 24 03:58 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | just want to be sure we would not be over-reacting | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and have remorse later | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | maybe it's a case of, | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | let's wait and see | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | judge the site/s by what it says | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | microsoft stefano, i gave lots of chace to him btw, even welcomed him to osi | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but he turned out to be just a waterboy of bill and lolita | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | $150k a year does things to people who used to be reasonable | Feb 24 04:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | iirc, for sandler it was $220,000 a year in 2020 | Feb 24 04:01 |
| techrights[sec] | Sure. Best to investigate first and be sure one way or another. | Feb 24 04:02 |
| techrights[sec] | ack | Feb 24 04:02 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | if later on FOSSDA turns out to be rogue at least we have some material ready to give possible | Feb 24 04:03 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | explanation | Feb 24 04:03 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | inc. professional background and funding source (Alphabet Mozilla) | Feb 24 04:03 |
| techrights[sec] | youtube.com/watch?v=TAwzfIqx8K8 | Feb 24 04:08 |
| schestowitz[TR] | Presented by Heather Meeker, General Partner, OSS Capital & FOSSDAFOSSDA -- the Free and Open Source Stories Digital Archive -- is an oral history project fo... | Feb 24 04:08 |
| schestowitz[TR] | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?youtube.com/watch?v=TAwzfIqx8K8 | Feb 24 04:09 |
| techrights[sec] | Most unfortunately the "survey" linked to at the FOSSDA site is run by | Feb 24 04:22 |
| techrights[sec] | mailchimp | Feb 24 04:22 |
| techrights[sec] | so it is blocked by a lot of proprietary javascript as well as not under the | Feb 24 04:22 |
| techrights[sec] | control of FOSSDA, who knows what information Mailchimp collects and then sells | Feb 24 04:22 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | mozilla uses github (micreosoft) for "telemetry" | Feb 24 04:22 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | thes epeople talk legalete | Feb 24 04:22 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | *legalese | Feb 24 04:22 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they are not "activists" | Feb 24 04:22 |
| techrights[sec] | The site may say FOSS but the text of the survey is only about OSS | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | Well, by focussing only on OSS, they exclude the FOSS community itself. | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | by definition. | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | That said, I hope they can get Larry Wall interviewed, and that they are | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | able to rephrase their wording and branding such that the original FOSS | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | community from back before OSS was even a thing and it was only FS can | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | participate. | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | Seriously that's a small but useful action that the FSF could take. | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | Who remains at the FSF that could do such outreach? | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | The videos are hosted over on www.aviaryplatform.com :( | Feb 24 04:27 |
| techrights[sec] | No connections to people who can self-host apparently | Feb 24 04:29 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | for most things, self-hosting is not even that hard | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | there are far more complex tasks out there | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and many people who are out of the workforce know how to deploy and self-host | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they just need to be paid properly | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | just moments ago in kitchen |just protein shake) i was thinking of sirius | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | how they never rewarded workers for working extra | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | like solving issues | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | improving perf | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or adding some features | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | no promotion | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | no bonus | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | same salary as in 2011 | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | if not lower! | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | how does a company like this expect to motivate staff? | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | people will embrace the "just enough" mindset | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and "minimum not to get in trouble" | Feb 24 04:32 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | dilbert | Feb 24 04:33 |
| techrights[sec] | The bar for that is low and yet it was not reached. | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | last year, about 3 times, I kept telling them | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | you can NEVER hire any talent or staff worth a f* | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | given how the company is run | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and indeed, turned out they had lied about trying to | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | said they'd look into hiring | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | then admitting they had not even started | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | we were becoming understaffed and unmotivated | Feb 24 04:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | all of us | Feb 24 04:34 |
| techrights[sec] | It doesn't. It merely exploits them. | Feb 24 04:36 |
| techrights[sec] | Once thatr "minimum not to get in trouble" becomes an established culture, | Feb 24 04:36 |
| techrights[sec] | the nation infected with it is a goner. | Feb 24 04:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i have just checked companies house | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | for any further filings | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | none yet | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i have a bottleneck on the pension thing | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | as ex-colleague is looking into one pension that 'vanished' | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | if we find it, then the nature of the others' scandal will be different | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | this is painfully slow | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | much likie pensions | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the ever-expanding window, like "40 years from now" | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | if... if.... | Feb 24 04:41 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | Putin, NATO, hyper-inflation... | Feb 24 04:41 |
| psydruid | schestowitz-pi2: I like both teams, but Ten Hag has done something remarkable and made a team out of the players that actually plays football again | Feb 24 04:42 |
| psydruid | as he has done countless times here in the Netherlands as well as in his time at Bayern, when he was coaching the second team while Pep was coaching the first team | Feb 24 04:43 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | now they are in the same City(TM) | Feb 24 04:46 |
| schestowitz-TR2 | The oligarchs' media: make more people take more debt ☛ https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/23/an-aging-population-poses-issues-just-like-the-baby-boom-did/ | Source: Counter Punch | Feb 24 04:50 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-An Aging Population Poses Issues, Just Like the Baby Boom Did - CounterPunch.org | Feb 24 04:50 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the fish is still going | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | made is past 1.5 years today | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | just put her in pyrex with epson salt | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | to help defeat the parasite | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | unless it's too late already | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | seems like a miracle she has come this far | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | 96 hours since isolation | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | no food, not eating, no poo either | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | /*epsom | Feb 24 05:37 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | sometimes we try a fresh large flake | Feb 24 05:38 |
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| schestowitz-pi2 | today'snational publishers | Feb 24 08:33 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | are short | Feb 24 08:33 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | short of details too | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | if they cover a technical matter, no technical details | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | we know there was outage | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the customers affected know why | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but what happened? | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | who is to blame? | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's hard to get answers out of companies | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they typicall insist "it's back" | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and refuse to provider any details | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | I had such experience but forgot... cannot name them | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | sirius did this to client too | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | "it's back, don't ask what happened or whose fault" | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | "shit happened..." | Feb 24 08:34 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they keep info from getting out using threats, intimidating, spsying, or perception of these | Feb 24 08:34 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) | Feb 24 11:08 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | db | Feb 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | my video notes atm: | Feb 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | videos suepo+epo | Feb 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | epo wiki | Feb 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | campinos | Feb 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | videos scale | Feb 24 11:30 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that latter is SCALE | Feb 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | is there anything left to be said about it though? | Feb 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | we'll probably have many EPO leaks this year | Feb 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and another round of github layoffs later in the year | Feb 24 11:31 |
| techrights[sec] | Nothing that I can think of on the spot | Feb 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | other than that, and maybe pluton, i see not much "annoying" in the news | Feb 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | hope it stays that way | Feb 24 11:31 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | seeing the latest from Economist | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i think aloud | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | is this the cliff edge for youtube | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's not growing revenue is down, ads up | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and i don't see that changing | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | except as a tool of (propaganda) war | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | russia saw the threat and has "tube" of its own | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but youtube could swallow massive losses and expand to every country on the planet | Feb 24 11:35 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that's why on monday i thought they might have another go at "preiums" of some kind | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | passing more costs eiother to watchers or "creators" | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | not sure which | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the new manager seem unfit and unqualified | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | unless the goal is "product" | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that is what they call video hosting? PRODUCT? | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | YouTube produces NOTHING | Feb 24 11:40 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | at least netflix uses to produce a LITTLE | Feb 24 11:40 |
| techrights[sec] | And Youtube's storage costs are only ever rising | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | However, it has too many ads to effectively serve as a propaganda channel. | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | The ads prevent people from watching the service in general and drives away | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | much of the potential audience. It's not ads in and of themsevles, people put | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | up with those, it's the excessive amount and intrusive implementation. | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | So if it loses too much of its value as a propaganda medium, the bailouts | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | will cease. | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | See Rossmann's latest complaint about Youtub: | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | "Google okays human trafficking, bans independent repair - MAKES SENSE!" | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/google-okays-human-trafficking,-bans:8 | Feb 24 11:43 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-odysee.com | Google okays human trafficking, bans independent repair - MAKES SENSE! | Feb 24 11:43 | |
| techrights[sec] | "creators" are moving away, forced away really, and what's left then? | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | If the plan is to pull the plug then it does not matter if they have | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | appointed an unqualified marketeer to head the unit. | Feb 24 11:43 |
| techrights[sec] | The product would be the propaganda and steering the recommendation algorithms | Feb 24 11:43 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | yes, that one video (saw title, did not click) was in my mind also | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they drive away the sort of "rare" stuff you don't and won't get on national | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | broadcast | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | as if the goal is to compere with TV channels | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that won't work! | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | btw, today i logged in to isp www 'site' (JS) | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | to check phone bill etc. | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they stick popups these, trying to upsell | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and they mention "netflix" by name | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | yay! | Feb 24 11:44 |
| techrights[sec] | Not even rare stuff. | Feb 24 11:44 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i sort of worry and not worry about it | Feb 24 11:46 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i'm barely a stakeholder in that outcome | Feb 24 11:46 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | based on 100 days in apachetop TR does 2mb/sec, mostly videos | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | now 1.9mb/sec | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and a lot is old videos | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i don't need to worry about "moderation" or host changing ToS | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | with this fast connection i will also habitually rsync the whole lot as insurance | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | dns+hosting | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | dns is not owned by a company | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | (per se) | Feb 24 11:47 |
| techrights[sec] | NO, exactly, but domains can still end up in trouble via the wrong hosting | Feb 24 11:47 |
| techrights[sec] | provider. | Feb 24 11:47 |
| techrights[sec] | s/NO/No/ | Feb 24 11:47 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | without dns there is ipfs | Feb 24 11:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | was gonna mention this, but not important enough to bother you with, | Feb 24 11:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | ipfs regain some reliability 2 days ago | Feb 24 11:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | prior to this it would sometimes time out on remote requests | Feb 24 11:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | as conflicts escalate ipfs MIGHT become more attractive | Feb 24 11:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | balkanised Web and all | Feb 24 11:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the LE/CA issue was brought up again today, in #techrights | Feb 24 11:49 |
| techrights[sec] | or registrar | Feb 24 11:50 |
| techrights[sec] | IPFS is too fringe, impossile to use, and doesn't scale. | Feb 24 11:50 |
| techrights[sec] | ^ that's all I know about IPFS | Feb 24 11:50 |
| techrights[sec] | Certificate authorities and how they are mismanaged in browsers negate | Feb 24 11:50 |
| techrights[sec] | any potential privacy in browsers, and that IMHO is on purpose these days | Feb 24 11:50 |
| techrights[sec] | or it would have been redesigned long ago already | Feb 24 11:50 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | fringe is better than universally deplatformed, persona non grata | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i know from clients, thankfully, what aws and clownflare do | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | many use this crap, also for CAs | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | never mind godaddy | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | awful company! | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the chain of packet exchange means censorship, spying etc. | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | mostly by the US | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | evcerything gets routed through there | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | unless it is very very fringe of highly techjnical | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | *or | Feb 24 11:52 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | moz is advancing this fraud of 'secure' or 'private' DNS | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | with preloaded options | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | guess which LOL! | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | I got the latest ff ESR in Deb11 | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | wtf?? this is not free software | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's a genderless "fox" logo | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that rides the old brand | Feb 24 11:53 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | ftr: clownflare is mitm for DNS, www traffic, CAs, even IPFS | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they also toy around with other protocols | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | they LOSE money | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the longer they operate, the poorer they becomee | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | never mind all this "potential" or "inertia" | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that's MBA BS | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | The Empire is willing to lose money just to make sure you cannot make any | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and they are very very mean | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | (Clingely.... about Microsoft ;-) ) | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | same mindset | Feb 24 11:58 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | zero-sumism | Feb 24 11:58 |
| techrights[sec] | Clownflare is a *very* pervasive problem nowadays and blocks / monitors an | Feb 24 12:06 |
| techrights[sec] | an overwhelming majority of sites' traffic, both coming and going | Feb 24 12:06 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | (fish still not eating, but looks surprisingly healthy on the surface) | Feb 24 12:06 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | clownflare has gotten only more aggressive over time | Feb 24 12:06 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i ranted in irc the other day because the w3c validator, which I've used | Feb 24 12:06 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | a lot since... like forever? ... got put behind clownflare JS crap, sometimes | Feb 24 12:06 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | "pick plane/truck..." ... about 2 years ago | Feb 24 12:06 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it's not compatible with falkon | Feb 24 12:07 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | so i need to still open firefox sometimes | Feb 24 12:07 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | in the past it did its own thing but 1-2 weeks ago it started asking me to click | Feb 24 12:07 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | on thigns.... all this just to check my posts have valid xhtml | Feb 24 12:07 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | clownflare is STILL losing money | Feb 24 12:07 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | IMAGINE what would happen if it started to 'CASH IN' | Feb 24 12:07 |
| techrights[sec] | Yes, it blocks the W3C validators, all of them, from use. | Feb 24 12:09 |
| techrights[sec] | If you do not let their javascripts run wild on your system then they deny | Feb 24 12:09 |
| techrights[sec] | access to the RSS and Atom feed validators. | Feb 24 12:09 |
| techrights[sec] | I suspect it already is cashing in with some level of surveillance and | Feb 24 12:09 |
| techrights[sec] | perhaps minor encouragement of some sites and discouragement of others. | Feb 24 12:09 |
| techrights[sec] | Some sites' visitors can get more trouble and others given an easier time, | Feb 24 12:33 |
| techrights[sec] | and when done at scale that will affect the amount of visitors that stick around | Feb 24 12:33 |
| techrights[sec] | and or come back, and in that way the topics those sites covered either | Feb 24 12:33 |
| techrights[sec] | enhanced or suppressed. | Feb 24 12:33 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | rianne and i becaame familiar with the proprietary back end (web-based, not the back-end of clownflare | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the compan) at CF | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but correct me if I am wrong; | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the webmaster selects mode | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | like one that blocks tor | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but the CF "HEY HI" then uses heuristics to discriminate against the visitor | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | some get capcha | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | some not | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | some blocked | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | some need to click | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and it depends on page | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | ane gelocation | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and history | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | say, if you visit the site many times a day | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or ip/cookie got you "flagged" | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | this gives CF lots of leeway for mass manipulation | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | while | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | 1) pretending to be neutral | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | 2) saying the webmaster is in complete control of this | Feb 24 12:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | feeling productive this past week in spite of not doing many videos/articles, it's not the only thing that "cou | Feb 24 12:45 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | nts" | Feb 24 12:45 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | ";next weds morning, 9am-1pm ish, will be afk; rianne's ceremony, friend joining us (athlete); confirmed | Feb 24 13:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | today | Feb 24 13:01 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | who was the sesame street guy who was 'reobbed'? | Feb 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i searx'ed it | Feb 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | many refs to Morriset, who died a month ago | Feb 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | says he was co-founder o | Feb 24 13:10 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | of it | Feb 24 13:10 |
| techrights[sec] | When? | Feb 24 13:11 |
| techrights[sec] | The one guy was basically killed by Disney. The stress they put him under | Feb 24 13:11 |
| techrights[sec] | sent him to the grave, according to his business / creative partner. | Feb 24 13:11 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | this was mentioned in re star wars and lucasfilm | Feb 24 13:12 |
| techrights[sec] | Was it this? | Feb 24 13:16 |
| techrights[sec] | https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/07/19/big-bird-missing-costume-stolen/ | Feb 24 13:16 |
| techrights[sec] | Or was it this? | Feb 24 13:16 |
| techrights[sec] | https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/frank-oz-muppets-disney-jim-henson-b1911118.html | Feb 24 13:16 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.washingtonpost.com | Sesame Street Big Bird costume stolen from children’s circus in Australia - The Washington Post | Feb 24 13:16 | |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.independent.co.uk | Disney’s attempt to buy The Muppets ‘is probably what killed’ Jim Henson, claims Frank Oz | The Independent | Feb 24 13:16 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | benson is the well known one that i had in mind | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but another "co" founder died last month in his 90s | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | this is, imho, very relevant to foss or tech at large | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | many companies taken away from their founders | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | by "vultures" and "activist" investors or hedge funds | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | noorda, danger/rubin, cannot recall the docker guy's name atm ... does not matter | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | rms, lbt work in progress | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | rms is 70 on march 16 | Feb 24 13:17 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | so they can "time him out" | Feb 24 13:17 |
| techrights[sec] | Or was it this? | Feb 24 13:18 |
| techrights[sec] | https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/frank-oz-muppets-disney-jim-henson-b1911118.html | Feb 24 13:18 |
| techrights[sec] | Or was it this? | Feb 24 13:18 |
| techrights[sec] | https://text.npr.org/2023/01/26/1151803288/sesame-street-co-creator-lloyd-morrisett-has-died-at-age-93 | Feb 24 13:18 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-text.npr.org | 'Sesame Street' co-creator Lloyd Morrisett has died at age 93 | Feb 24 13:18 | |
| techrights[sec] | And then rewrite him out of history with the help of many paid and unpaid weasels | Feb 24 13:18 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | that is what microsoft did to the mojang/minecraft founder | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | after he had opened his mouth | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i'm not expert in this | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but someone who knows the story told me | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and somehow it's possible to still get the real facts on it | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | wqeasels and "vessels" | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | like the "books" about how netscape and nokia harmed themselves | Feb 24 13:20 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or how torvalds basically ripped off a lecturer from the NL | Feb 24 13:20 |
| techrights[sec] | Those books are easily debunked but because the paid-for lies exist in printed | Feb 24 13:23 |
| techrights[sec] | form they are harder to fight and those books persist (and their damage) persist | Feb 24 13:23 |
| techrights[sec] | for years. | Feb 24 13:23 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it is in a book, not a blog post, "SO IT MUST BE TRUE" | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | a "PUBLISHER" invested in it! | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the battle over authority or perceived authority | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | pocock noted that when big names like "Tor" and "Debian" formally accuse you of something | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it is hard to shake off the message | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the same is true for some publishers, courts/govs | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | even if you are innocent | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | what's good about TR is, it does not need to "GiveAShit"(TM) about this | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | as the track record is OK | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and we don't rely on social control media/conde nast etc. | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | rss, gemini etc. | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | if I 'fell under a bus', i am sure you and rianne can keep it going | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | the goal is to get people to push on the messages | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | e.g. on why the CA model may be flawed | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | because, in general, lies might travel faster | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but they don't stick/persist | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | when the PR budget is gone, e.g. novell gone under, no amount of spin will prevail | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | let alone a site novell.com | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | black duck employees were moaning to me that i was destroying them (they should not say this; it | Feb 24 13:28 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | merely emboldens the person to carry on!) | Feb 24 13:28 |
| *psydroid2 (~psydroid@cbcfptirpkfqa.irc) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 24 13:30 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | would the assertion, as below, be accurate or total BS: | Feb 24 13:48 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | one way to crush X is to associate the movement or grassroots around it with negative stuff | Feb 24 13:48 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | means to achieve that: brand confusion, division, distraction | Feb 24 13:48 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i can think of non-tech parables | Feb 24 13:48 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | whether there is a coordinated effort against fs and other tech activism is hard to determine | Feb 24 13:48 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | without leaks like halloween docs | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | youtube is very shaky ground for any form of activism | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | people end up self-censoring | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | even benign things like discussing how apple spies on your files | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or how to repair a device that broke | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | in youtube, channels come and go all the time, based on "algorithms" | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | a planned "outcome", top-to-bottom | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but i disgress somewhat | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | notice how the debate about feminism, climate, and antiwar changes | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | binary pro- and anti-putin, politics about how many bathrooms stalls are needed, | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and 'activism' for climate like pouring paint on drawings | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | guess which things the media devotes the EMPHASIS | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | like "billy is bad coz [strawman" | Feb 24 13:49 |
| techrights[sec] | The defeat comes through associating the projects and their goals with | Feb 24 13:49 |
| techrights[sec] | irrelevant (to the project) divisive goals. Divide and conquer. | Feb 24 13:49 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | see latest blog post from lxoliva | Feb 24 13:50 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | ge covered it in re fsf | Feb 24 13:50 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | *he | Feb 24 13:50 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | <techrights-news> "Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols is having another senior moment. He judges Free software only by the catalogue that Microsoft controls, using proprietary software. He needs to retire to avoid alienating the few who still trusted his writings." https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/24/who_writes_open_source/ | Feb 24 13:57 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.theregister.com | Who writes Linux and open source software? • The Register | Feb 24 13:57 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | <techrights-news> SJVN is either willfully ignorant or lying; judging Microsoft "contributions" based only on what it is controlling in its platform is propaganda that goes back to 2014, when it made plans to buy the company; those who don't trust Microsoft don't host anything there and SJVN does not count them. How foolish. This is not your daddy's "SJVN"; this is a clown. https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/24/who_writes_open_source/ | Feb 24 14:07 |
| techrights[sec] | checking | Feb 24 14:08 |
| techrights[sec] | The latest Oliva blog post: https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/blogs/lxo/2022-12-26-digital-vegan-walled-culture.en. | Feb 24 14:08 |
| techrights[sec] | html | Feb 24 14:08 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.fsfla.org | ::[FSFLA]:: Digital Vegan, Walled Culture | Feb 24 14:08 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | sorry, maybe the one before that | Feb 24 14:09 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | about fsf | Feb 24 14:09 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and how people tried to derail it | Feb 24 14:09 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it was over a month ago | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | i reposted it in TR | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | appeasing trolls is pointless | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | it alienates people | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and you appease nobody, except you think you do | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | referring to singular person as plural and saying it "with the wrong tone or attitude" | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | is just another perceived sin | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | hateful people who tear things down would look for any excuse | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | and best thing is, change the subject to what matters | Feb 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | madness belongs in the asylum | Feb 24 14:19 |
| techrights[sec] | Appeasment is always a losing proposition. | Feb 24 14:24 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | compromise is almost a synonym | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | but either way, in this case, "meeting half way" is meaningless | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | like theist meeting half way with atheist | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or agreeing that science and pseudo-science can co-exist | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | better todebate other scientists | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | even if >50% of the nation believes in shit like rapture | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | science is not based on "market share" or surveys | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | or "public opinion" | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | code does not give a shit, either | Feb 24 14:26 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | <techrights-news> New York Times just put itself in a hot spot by giving platform to divisive nonsense ☛ https://www.thenation.com/article/society/new-york-times-open-letter-more-to-say/ | Source: The Nation | Feb 24 14:31 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.thenation.com | I Signed the “New York Times” Open Letter. I Have More to Say. | The Nation | Feb 24 14:31 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | <techrights-news> "great resignation" as a great Big Lie ☛ https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/24/on-the-great-resignation-interrogating-the-neoliberal-narrative/ | Source: Counter Punch | Feb 24 14:36 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-On the Great Resignation: Interrogating the Neoliberal Narrative - CounterPunch.org | Feb 24 14:36 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | terrible lie | Feb 24 14:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | nobody even uses that term after the dece-feb wave of layoffs | Feb 24 14:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | as it would not hold water | Feb 24 14:36 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | news inn uk nation media today: price of paste to double | Feb 24 14:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | beyond our control, but let's hope the war ends soon | Feb 24 14:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | not a full recovery, but less bloodshed | Feb 24 14:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | *pasta, not paste | Feb 24 14:42 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | <techrights-news> Neoliberals Declared War on the Poor ☛ https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/24/when-neoliberals-declared-war-on-the-poor/ | Source: Counter Punch | Feb 24 14:57 |
| -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-When Neoliberals Declared War on the Poor - CounterPunch.org | Feb 24 14:57 | |
| schestowitz-pi2 | will be afk soon | Feb 24 17:27 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | fish still ok | Feb 24 17:27 |
| schestowitz-pi2 | almost 5 days in hospital | Feb 24 17:27 |
| *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@ifxy3drk44hp2.irc) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 24 17:43 | |
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| *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@97vqpiyuz47fy.irc) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 24 22:48 | |
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