●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, August 25, 2022 ●● ● Aug 25 [02:29] *techrights_guest|75 (~ac3a9349@54n9xgft8g6u2.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [02:37] *techrights_guest|75 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) ● Aug 25 [03:05] *Techrights-sec has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [03:07] *Techrights-sec (~quassel@freenode-j7a7ih.am6e.nqgd.t29qgt.IP) has joined #boycottnovell [03:31] schestowitz__[TR] seems not only lagrange but also proxies don't like how "smart" quotes are done in the capsule ("Googles") https://gemini.susa.net:1993/cgi-bin/Proxy.sh?url=gemini%3A%2F%2Fnews.tuxmachines.org%2Fn%2F2022%2F08%2F24%2FVideos_and_Shows_Privacy_Massive_Wiki_Manjaro_and_Linux_Mint.gmi https://gemini.susa.net:1993/cgi-bin/Proxy.sh?url=gemini%3A%2F%2Fnews.tuxmachines.org%2Fn%2F2022%2F08%2F24%2FVideos_and_Shows_Privacy_Massive_Wiki_Manjaro_ [03:31] schestowitz__[TR] and_Linux_Mint.gmi [03:31] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Missing content type. Ignoring. [03:31] -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Missing content type. Ignoring. ● Aug 25 [05:51] schestowitz-TR2 gm [05:51] schestowitz-TR2 sorry to have added another item (above), it's not so important, just related to something you said you could not reproduce in amfora ● Aug 25 [07:54] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) [07:58] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [08:43] Techrights-sec checking [08:43] Techrights-sec that's getting added somewhere after the page leaves our capsule so there's [08:43] Techrights-sec not much to do except file bug reports [08:43] Techrights-sec wait, there is a bug with that part ofthe UTF-8 again [08:43] Techrights-sec It's in the db ok, so that's good. [08:43] Techrights-sec fixed, I think. [08:43] Techrights-sec thanks for spotting that! [08:46] schestowitz-TR2 back [08:46] schestowitz-TR2 rianne worked yesterday [08:46] schestowitz-TR2 so we celebrate her bday today, instead [08:46] schestowitz-TR2 44th [08:46] schestowitz-TR2 looks likle the utf-8 bug is solved :-) [08:46] schestowitz-TR2 I'll try to find something to add in html [08:46] Techrights-sec ok contratulations on her birthday observed [08:47] Techrights-sec ack [08:55] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [08:57] schestowitz-TR2 I've just done a pair of tests [08:57] schestowitz-TR2 with LWN and ItsFOSS the title="" part gets champed away [08:57] schestowitz-TR2 *chomped [08:57] schestowitz-TR2 the test with Red Hat is still there, but I don't know how to reproduce it ● Aug 25 [09:02] Techrights-sec checking [09:02] Techrights-sec as mentioned the other day there are just over 1000 hosts/domains which are [09:02] Techrights-sec in TM but not in TR. For this to work, the lookup table in the module [09:02] Techrights-sec TuxMachines::ReadOn has to be filled it prior to addng or updating a post [09:02] Techrights-sec It's not feasible in this work flow to have the usual refresh scripts [09:02] Techrights-sec modify the bodies of the posts so if retroactive application is needed, a [09:02] Techrights-sec new script would be needed. Can you check /usr/local/lib/perl5/TuxMachines/ [09:02] Techrights-sec for ReadOn.pm and make sure the sites in the lookup table are there? I've not [09:03] Techrights-sec had time to slog through all 1000. [09:03] schestowitz-TR2 both sites are missing from that list [09:03] schestowitz-TR2 so it seems not like a bug after all [09:03] schestowitz-TR2 I could go through the list in camelcase, splitting side the less political and more political domains [09:08] Techrights-sec yes, but there are still the 1000 unkown sites from TM [09:08] Techrights-sec a different workflow is needed I think [09:14] Techrights-sec what might be an idea would be to have the add and update scripts make [09:14] Techrights-sec a list of unknown sites and then manually process them as a batch every [09:14] Techrights-sec few days with some kind of retroactive editing (by script) of the existing [09:14] Techrights-sec posts. Ideas? [09:14] Techrights-sec The steps would be [09:14] Techrights-sec 1) check the list every few days [09:14] Techrights-sec 2) edit ReadOn.pm [09:14] Techrights-sec 3) check the changes into Git [09:14] Techrights-sec 4) check out into the mirror [09:14] Techrights-sec 5) copy manually from the mirror to /usr/local/lib/perl5/ [09:14] Techrights-sec 6) manually run the retrofit script [09:14] Techrights-sec But several of those steps are quite time consuming, at least in regards to [09:14] Techrights-sec the amount of attention they require to do right [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 how about a somewhat backwards approach? [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 when I add a domain not in the list [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 I then add it to the list fiorst [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 and from the pm file it'll perdiodically get pushed to git? [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 sooner or later all the still-active sites will have an entry [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 in the next 1q0 years we may add 150,000 stories [09:15] schestowitz-TR2 but likely from less than 1000 domains [09:16] Techrights-sec then steps 2-6 apply still [09:18] schestowitz-TR2 how did you selct the subset for ReadOn.pm? If scanning the list takes less than a second, then we can join with CamelCase [09:18] schestowitz-TR2 and then keep them synchronised periodically [09:18] schestowitz-TR2 by merging [09:23] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 there is another possibility [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 I can scan camelcase at my end [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 if I find a match, it'll add it automatically [09:24] schestowitz-TR2 and then the server side will be a second pass or one that's applicable to a submitted who is not me (usually rianne) [09:26] Techrights-sec I ran a link extractor over all the files in the document root at tm-new [09:26] Techrights-sec Synchronizing with the TR git repository: [09:26] Techrights-sec 0) re-synchronize [09:26] Techrights-sec 1) check the list every few days [09:26] Techrights-sec 2) edit ReadOn.pm [09:26] Techrights-sec 3) check the changes into Git [09:26] Techrights-sec 4) check out into the mirror [09:26] Techrights-sec 5) copy manually from the mirror to /usr/local/lib/perl5/ [09:26] Techrights-sec 6) manually run the retrofit script [09:26] Techrights-sec the hard parts are steps 2 through 6 [09:26] Techrights-sec or at least 2 through 5 [09:26] Techrights-sec there's almost no crossover between the two sets so it is going to be [09:26] Techrights-sec unproductive to spend time on synching since it is more effort than just [09:26] Techrights-sec editing the two unrelated sets independently [09:39] Techrights-sec it would not be difficult to log the missing sites as they are found [09:39] Techrights-sec by either the update or the add script; the work comes in when the log [09:39] Techrights-sec is processed and the sites are added to the module's lookup table [09:39] Techrights-sec that's three or four steps, of necessity [09:41] schestowitz-TR2 yes, that migth work better [09:41] schestowitz-TR2 I've just added some more pages [09:41] schestowitz-TR2 days ago I added many video channels to my rss feeds [09:41] schestowitz-TR2 I think video will be a growing thing, even if not in googletube [09:41] schestowitz-TR2 at least with gulag I have a proxy and can embed with seek time to skip nonsense [09:53] Techrights-sec ack [09:54] schestowitz-TR2 would it speed up the process if I manually add title for now? [09:54] Techrights-sec it depends, is it faster (over time) to add titles manually or [09:54] Techrights-sec to do steps 1 - 6 above (over time) ? [09:56] schestowitz-TR2 I think combining both? [09:56] schestowitz-TR2 we add 30-50 pages per day, I don't think it'll slow down [09:56] schestowitz-TR2 with a TM capsule we might even add a section specific to gemini protocol at some point [09:56] Techrights-sec ack [09:58] schestowitz-TR2 If I understand correctly, ReadOn.pm will override anything in title="" if a match is found [09:58] schestowitz-TR2 which is good [09:58] schestowitz-TR2 and if it is empty and no match is found, it removed title="" completely? ● Aug 25 [10:07] Techrights-sec it should only create a title attribute if there is not one there or if [10:07] Techrights-sec there is one but it is empty; perhaps it should not touch empty ones; they [10:07] Techrights-sec might be empty on purpose [10:08] schestowitz-TR2 yes, I think this is the desirable behaviour [10:08] schestowitz-TR2 this way camelcase will be used only as a fallback [10:13] schestowitz-TR2 I wonder if it is worth extending to all lists, e.g. groups of links [10:13] schestowitz-TR2 a la techrights [10:13] schestowitz-TR2 it would not be hard [10:13] schestowitz-TR2 all it takes is scanning links in
  • and adding title if the domain is recognised [10:13] schestowitz-TR2 this already happens in techrights, with a different workflow [10:20] Techrights-sec once the lookup table exists, the rest is not hard to automate, the bottleneck [10:20] Techrights-sec is the maintenance of the lookup table [10:23] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [10:24] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [10:31] Techrights-sec ok [10:31] Techrights-sec yes the large multinationals have a general desire to eliminate open protocols [10:31] Techrights-sec and open formats; the WWW is the biggest PITA for them in that regard, it [10:31] Techrights-sec has both HTML and HTTP; They don't care much about TLS since the certificate [10:31] Techrights-sec hierarchy in browser and elsewhere has been successfully compromised [10:31] schestowitz-TR2 the media does a fine job making itself obsolete too [10:31] schestowitz-TR2 partly by failing to ever evolve [10:31] schestowitz-TR2 maybe because of managers there [10:31] schestowitz-TR2 or the VCs/hedge funds [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 how about this: [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 I will add some names manually from my end [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 let that pile up for a bit [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 then, at a later point [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 db -> fildump [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 grep reddon filedump | cut |sort | uniq [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 then you get a list of previously used domains and how they are described [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 aided in part at my end by camelcase [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 I can easily envision this going on for many years [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 in one porotocol/form or another [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 I think "apps" will throw www under the bus [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 gulag already tried, with amp [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 never mind spdy and js etc. [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 the media does a fine job making itself obsolete too [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 partly by failing to ever evolve [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 maybe because of managers there [10:33] schestowitz-TR2 or the VCs/hedge funds [10:41] mjg59_ spdy turned into http/2? [10:41] mjg59_ Unclear what the complaint is there [10:41] mjg59_ It's just a lower overhead mechanism for negotiating transfers [10:45] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [10:46] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [11:03] Techrights-sec I'm think the second navigation bar in TM can be redone but don;t have [11:03] Techrights-sec a convenient way to demo the change. [11:04] schestowitz-TR2 the next/prev? [11:04] schestowitz-TR2 webp also [11:04] schestowitz-TR2 mjg59_: I know [11:04] schestowitz-TR2 that's not good [11:04] schestowitz-TR2 same for drm [11:04] schestowitz-TR2 making old browsersa not compatible [11:05] schestowitz-TR2 like they do with the CA cartel [11:05] schestowitz-TR2 they don't care about people with disabilities and the environment [11:05] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@r6fx9ce6x78p6.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [11:06] Techrights-sec yes [11:07] schestowitz-TR2 I think we need some ways to lead to older days, e.g. from the same month, wherein there is an index for the day [11:07] schestowitz-TR2 this way nothing is close to being orphned [11:07] schestowitz-TR2 maybe button for "also today" "previous day" "next day" [11:09] Techrights-sec Rather than having them in the center, as they are now, it would be possibly [11:09] Techrights-sec and improvment to have them justified to the edges. That way one can [11:09] Techrights-sec click forward or backward continuously without having to chase the links back [11:09] Techrights-sec and forth across the line as they get longer or shorter. Right now if [11:09] Techrights-sec prev / next has one short and one long and then one long and one short you have [11:09] Techrights-sec a high risk of clicking on the wrong one [11:09] Techrights-sec LI / UL will do the job [11:09] Techrights-sec no table is needed [11:09] schestowitz-TR2 to set apart the arrows you might need deiv or table [11:09] schestowitz-TR2 table would be the 1990s style [11:10] mjg59_ 11:04 < schestowitz-TR2> making old browsersa not compatible [11:10] mjg59_ That seems like an argument for never improving a protocol ever [11:11] mjg59_ Unless we're willing to freeze development then inventing new things that work better does at some point mean that old things stop working [11:12] mjg59_ I'm not aware of anything that serves HTTP/2 but not HTTP/1.1 right now, and I suspect it's going to be a long time until that happens [11:13] mjg59_ But if it does, that's not an attack on old browsers! That's just progress, because people want to implement stuff that works better and will not spend all of their lives supporting stuff that hasn't been updated in over a decade [11:14] mjg59_ Otherwise you're getting into "Why doesn't Linux run on a 386 any more" territory [11:15] mjg59_ (A decision that was made by Linus) [11:19] schestowitz-TR2 btw, I have arindam's public key [11:19] schestowitz-TR2 but I don't think we tested enough yet [11:19] schestowitz-TR2 so that's on hold for now [11:19] schestowitz-TR2 like the image upload thing [11:20] schestowitz-TR2 386 is VERY old [11:22] mjg59_ So is HTTP/1.1 [11:27] schestowitz-TR2 in falkon, the rhs of the rhs arrow need a little more margins [11:27] schestowitz-TR2 it touches the borderline [11:27] schestowitz-TR2 but otherwise works well, as expected [11:27] schestowitz-TR2 I've added more styling to the readon button [11:30] Techrights-sec checking [11:43] schestowitz-TR2 looks like you reverted back several changes [11:47] Techrights-sec they're still in Git [11:47] Techrights-sec Git has not been updated since I mentioned the above changed regarding the [11:47] Techrights-sec navigation bar [11:47] Techrights-sec push to git and then pull into the /var/www/tuxmachines.org/ hierarchy [11:49] schestowitz-TR2 I did that earlier after I had changed the css [11:49] schestowitz-TR2 adn then saw the changes to navigation, even in live [11:51] Techrights-sec yes, I had tested them and was in the process of rollingthem out, but [11:51] Techrights-sec had not pushed to Git yet from here [11:52] Techrights-sec su -c 'cd /var/www/tuxmachines.org/; git pull origin master' -s /bin/sh git [11:52] Techrights-sec ... * branch master -> FETCH_HEAD [11:52] Techrights-sec Already up to date. [11:58] Techrights-sec /var/www/tuxmachines.org/ is only a mirror of what's in Git [11:59] schestowitz-TR2 so I am guesing you pushed that back for a bit [11:59] schestowitz-TR2 along with the changes [11:59] schestowitz-TR2 as my changes and yours are not in the live site now [11:59] schestowitz-TR2 i ran the pull from tm-new after I had modified the css ● Aug 25 [12:06] Techrights-sec ack [12:51] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) ● Aug 25 [13:38] Techrights-sec on the topic ofthe image upload, how has the incron workflow gone? that has [13:38] Techrights-sec been available for testing (on the production site:( though) for some time [13:38] Techrights-sec on the topic ofthe image upload, how has the incron workflow gone? that has [13:38] Techrights-sec been available for testing (on the production site:( though) for some time [13:38] *wallacer has quit (connection closed) [13:39] *wallacer (~quassel@6bsu33ajs4zs4.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 I tried plaacing new files in the uploads dir, expecting something to emerge in the other dir with some html/txt file [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 but iirc, that never quite worked yet [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 and we were not sure why, then moved on to something morre pressing (at the time) [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 I assume you still rework the navigation part [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 as atm the arrows are gone, from live at least [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 for a moment it was live, with the arrows and the left/right align [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 and then it disappeared [13:42] schestowitz-TR2 archiving will become more important and navigation to old "content" when we have thousands of nodes in the new site ● Aug 25 [17:22] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #boycottnovell [17:22] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [17:41] Techrights-sec the upload script is blocked by a permissions problem; I need to find a way [17:41] Techrights-sec to override any existing permissions and force group-write on the incoming [17:41] Techrights-sec files [17:41] Techrights-sec if they get uploaded as 664 they are fine, if they are uploaded as 644, which [17:41] Techrights-sec is the default on most systems, then they are blocked [17:41] Techrights-sec hmm some other problem with incron [17:41] Techrights-sec incron won't run as any user even though the system log says it has [17:42] schestowitz-TR2 b ack, both of us [17:42] schestowitz-TR2 maybe saved ('earned') about 60-90 pounds by patiently hunting [17:42] schestowitz-TR2 that's the "special day out" [17:43] schestowitz-TR2 trams are still a risk of unexpected "Crowding" [17:46] schestowitz-TR2 wow, great job on the navigation bar. really nice, i love it! [17:46] schestowitz-TR2 the "core" part of the cms is solid [17:46] schestowitz-TR2 even db locking [17:46] schestowitz-TR2 can be confusing at times but I communicate with rianne when the lock kicks in to avert conflict [17:46] schestowitz-TR2 navigation/archive pages are not urgenjt because for now it's feasible to crawl backwars [17:46] schestowitz-TR2 it gets harder months or years down the line [17:51] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@h635kpe3hju7k.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [19:17] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [19:25] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@tkbibjhmbkvb8.irc) has joined #boycottnovell [19:39] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [20:19] *starstreak has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [20:21] *starstreak (~starstreak@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [21:03] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@x7hxirptnxtdg.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [22:20] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) [22:52] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@ngwmkycssbdbc.irc) has joined #boycottnovell ● Aug 25 [23:23] *schestowitz[TR2] has quit (*.net *.split) [23:23] *schestowitz__ has quit (*.net *.split)