●● IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Monday, December 07, 2020 ●● ● Dec 07 [01:52] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [01:52] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [01:54] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes [01:56] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes ● Dec 07 [04:32] *rianne__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [04:32] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes [04:33] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [04:33] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes ● Dec 07 [05:04] *elevators has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) ● Dec 07 [06:32] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) ● Dec 07 [07:06] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techbytes ● Dec 07 [08:30] schestowitz " [08:30] schestowitz no 12-07? [08:30] schestowitz I can see the diffs, first line and about the last 10 in the list, so I took those out, assuming [08:30] schestowitz you forgot to create a new file and just carried on editing the existing one [08:30] schestowitz " [08:30] schestowitz (daily links) [08:48] schestowitz Re: Gender in tech [08:48] schestowitz > People self-identify as computer people or non-computer people by the [08:48] schestowitz > age of 10. [08:48] schestowitz > [08:48] schestowitz > Schools discourage everybody, tech companies are extremely demanding of [08:48] schestowitz > people's time. To the point where if you have any other life, on average [08:48] schestowitz > I think you are still screwed. [08:48] schestowitz > [08:48] schestowitz > Let's not talk about men's expectations of women regarding makeup and [08:49] schestowitz > clothes without talking about how brutal women are to each other [08:49] schestowitz > emotionally. It's not just men discouraging women from tech, it's their [08:49] schestowitz > friends, mothers, sisters as well. These men who think women shouldn't [08:49] schestowitz > be in tech obviously exist, but I don't personally know any who admit to [08:49] schestowitz > feeling that way. Every aspect of our culture is probably less conducive [08:49] schestowitz > (not by necessity) to women in tech, and the solutions proposed tend to [08:49] schestowitz > lump the blame on one group of people. If 99% of men are encouraging of [08:49] schestowitz > women in tech, hypothetically of course-- and just 1% of men are in [08:49] schestowitz > charge of hiring, there are all sorts of ways the problem can be [08:49] schestowitz > attributed disproportionately to reality. [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > Of course like you, I would also like to hear more from women about this. [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > I find females easier to teach than men incidentally. Females on average [08:49] schestowitz > tend to ask questions and self-assess more critically. Men are harder to [08:49] schestowitz > teach because they pretend they already know more than they do. This [08:49] schestowitz > would be easy to poke fun at men for, however there is a flipside to [08:49] schestowitz > this, which is that women are not EXPECTED to know everything-- men sort [08:49] schestowitz > of are. Both men and women are associated with traits where [08:49] schestowitz > vulnerability is not socially accepted. Men are not simply predisposed [08:49] schestowitz > to pretending to know things-- the pressure on them to know things is [08:49] schestowitz > external. And we aren't just talking about natural roles evolved over [08:49] schestowitz > the years, but the way society has been engineered through marketing, [08:49] schestowitz > capitalism and industry. Men who don't know everything will be [08:49] schestowitz > overlooked for hiring, go hungry, fail to provide-- and treated like a [08:49] schestowitz > bum. so expecting them not to act that way is unrealistic. [08:49] schestowitz > And maybe here is a clue-- if men are expected to know everything, or at [08:49] schestowitz > least fake it, and women are the opposite, which one gets hired for a [08:49] schestowitz > field where people really "need" to know everything, all the time? [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > "Can you act like you know everything?" [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > "Are you kidding? I do that every day!" [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > "You're hired!" [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > [08:49] schestowitz > "Can you act like you know everything?" [08:49] schestowitz > [08:50] schestowitz > "I mean, I could try that, I guess. I don't know absolutely everything-- [08:50] schestowitz > that's okay, right?" [08:50] schestowitz > [08:50] schestowitz > "Thanks for coming in, we'll get back to you." ● Dec 07 [17:49] *Techrights-sec (~quassel@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes ● Dec 07 [20:59] *Condor_ (~freenode@e1.nixmagic.com) has joined #techbytes [20:59] *Condor has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) ● Dec 07 [21:12] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [21:50] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techbytes