●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Tuesday, March 02, 2021 ●● ● Mar 02 [00:00] schestowitz__ you could drive a 'dumb' car [00:00] mjg59 DaemonFC[m]: They made that assertion [00:00] schestowitz__ (while they 'last') [00:00] schestowitz__ the insurance companies try to punish smart people who reject the spying [00:00] schestowitz__ Elon Deere [00:00] schestowitz__ "it's not your car" [00:01] schestowitz__ "pay me, pedo guy!" [00:01] schestowitz__ help crowdfund elon's next toupee [00:02] schestowitz__ https://twitter.com/camusards/status/1366448352494239751 [00:02] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@camusards: Une bonne ressource pour commencer vos investigations https://t.co/U7yGR3rQii https://t.co/hZsHEqfy1m [00:02] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | Gates Foundation Critique - Techrights [00:02] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@camusards: Gates sera apprhend en temps voulu. Et jug pour Crimes Contre lHumanit. Cela ne fait aucun doute. Continuez https://t.co/5rGPRz9V7C [00:02] mjg59 Anyway, still waiting for you to justify why licenses that allow you to lock up people's data are free and ones that prevent that are proprietary [00:04] techrights-bot #australia #police outsourced to #fascist nation that murders 1000+ per year in "police officer-involved shootings" https://www.itwire.com/enterprise-solutions/nsw-police-signs-deal-with-us-based-firm-to-modernise-technology.html [00:04] DaemonFC[m] Doesn't the GPLv3 prevent that in several ways and that's why Apple won't touch it? [00:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-iTWire - NSW police signs deal with US-based firm to modernise technology [00:09] DaemonFC[m] https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/01/brazil-iphone-se-enterprise/amp/ [00:09] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Brazilian public prosecutors don't want an iPhone SE to work - 9to5Mac [00:09] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [00:10] DaemonFC[m] Brazil's highest paid public officials are "humiliated" to "only" get a free iPhone SE from the government. [00:10] MinceR lol [00:11] DaemonFC[m] The other option was a SIM card and they can pay for whatever they want and put that in. [00:11] MinceR it must be humiliating that they only get a minor symbol of belonging to the cult (which is pretty much useless for any other purpose) from the taxpayers' money [00:11] MinceR entitled cultist assholes [00:12] DaemonFC[m] Meanwhile, they get paid more than the government pays doctors while the public is experiencing hyperinflation, unemployment, and being bowled over by COVID. [00:12] DaemonFC[m] With an unlimited supply of a worthless drug to treat it with. [00:12] mjg59 DaemonFC[m]: No, the GPL requires the user be able to have keys that allow them to replace the binary [00:12] mjg59 That doesn't guarantee access to the data [00:13] mjg59 But yes, arguably the CAL is a logical extension of GPLv3 in this respect [00:14] schestowitz__ [00:10] Brazil's highest paid public officials are "humiliated" to "only" get a free iPhone SE from the government. [00:14] schestowitz__ judges ought not carry such spying machines [00:14] schestowitz__ it can be used to blackmail them [00:14] DaemonFC[m] That's probably why they get them. [00:15] schestowitz__ ha [00:15] schestowitz__ http://techrights.org/2011/08/28/cablegate-reveals-us-pressure-for-eu-patent-unitary-patent-alongside-acta-more-pro-patents-lobbyists-observed/ [00:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Cablegate Reveals US Pressure for EU Patent (Unitary Patent) Alongside ACTA, More Pro-Patents Lobbyists Observed | Techrights [00:15] DaemonFC[m] They want the most expensive model and say the SE is something you'd hand a child. [00:15] schestowitz__ and http://techrights.org/2011/08/28/cablegate-reveals-us-pressure-for-eu-patent-unitary-patent-alongside-acta-more-pro-patents-lobbyists-observed/ [00:15] MinceR if you hated that child, sure [00:16] DaemonFC[m] I'm sure that the average worker there who would have to labor for a month to buy one is thrilled to read this. [00:16] techrights-bot You Dont Need To Ask http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148309 #GNU #Linux doing OK, but #ubuntu lost its inertia and #canonical stuff looks for excuses [00:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | You Don't Need To Ask | Tux Machines [00:19] schestowitz__ MinceR: or if you want to spy on the kid [00:19] schestowitz__ or to enable others to spy on the kid [00:19] schestowitz__ in a saner society you'd have to be a certain age, maybe 15, to 'own' one [00:19] schestowitz__ like driving a car [00:19] schestowitz__ because of responsible choice and all [00:20] schestowitz__ same age for FB [00:20] schestowitz__ young people humiliate themselves as kids there [00:20] schestowitz__ and talk crap in plain text [00:20] schestowitz__ FB can leverage this for espionage and spills [00:20] MinceR enabling others to spy on the kid is a given [00:20] schestowitz__ and their government probably does already [00:20] MinceR since you can't secure the device from the cupertino mafia [00:20] MinceR or anyone who breaks into the infrastructure of the cupertino mafia [00:20] schestowitz__ Apple loves privacy :"-) [00:20] MinceR :> [00:21] schestowitz__ the cupertino mafia entered the infra of the cupertino mafia [00:21] schestowitz__ as if the cupertino mafia is OK and trusted [00:21] schestowitz__ and those who break in are not [00:21] schestowitz__ the same old BS [00:21] schestowitz__ OPM and others are the same [00:21] schestowitz__ the US government already collected tons on info on you [00:21] schestowitz__ but it's only dangerous if "CHINA" gets it [00:22] schestowitz__ rejoice peasants! OUR oligarchs steal your money! [00:22] schestowitz__ At least they're not RUSSIAN! [00:22] schestowitz__ We WIN when our plunderers have the same flag as ours [00:22] schestowitz__ "job creators" or something [00:24] techrights-bot Data collection, Inc. An #espionage tool incorporated as a for-profit (sometimes!) firm, propped up by military budget. #facebook #google #microsoft [00:26] *inode has quit (Quit: ) [00:29] techrights-bot I think many of the #techrights #gemini tools and software are now considered stable and reliable. Will be released soon as AGPLv3. Not sure yet whether to set up a WebUI/GUI for access or just plain git with open port. [00:31] vmg3 oh damn :) another investigation coming https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/03/gab-the-far-right-website-has-been-hacked-and-70gb-of-data-leaked/ [00:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-arstechnica.com | Donald Trump is one of 15,000 Gab users whose account just got hacked | Ars Technica [00:31] MinceR did he use "maga2020!" as a password there too? [00:32] vmg3 wouldn't surprise me [00:32] MinceR (the alleged "genius" that he is...) [00:32] techrights-bot Sites are being converted to #gemini whether they like it or not. gemini://simplynews.metalune.xyz (via https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/005824.html ). I've just checked it out, the conversion is of decent quality. We coded our own, too. [00:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.orbitalfox.eu | SimplyNews on gemini [00:33] MinceR :) [00:35] vmg3 the comments are always the best [00:40] DaemonFC[m] They just copied his tweets. It wasn't actually him. [00:42] DaemonFC[m] Pfizer CEOs COVID every year must be a dream come true. [00:42] DaemonFC[m] And the antivaxxers will make sure we never smother it out. [00:44] MinceR neofascists too [00:44] MinceR with the whole "testing can't stop the virus" "contact tracing can't stop the virus" idiocy [00:45] MinceR "we don't want to buy the Moderna vaccine, it costs too much" "let's buy some untested shit from russia and red china and force people to take it" [00:46] *gry (~test@unaffiliated/gryllida) has joined #techrights [00:47] DaemonFC[m] Exactly. And he pays more because Hungary doesn't have the population of a midsized US state and thus no bulk buying power. [00:47] XRevan86 I guessed wrong, postmarketOS went for 21.03, not for 21.01, for Alpine Linux 3.13. [00:47] XRevan86 They branched that finally. [00:47] DaemonFC[m] The Philippines apparently approved Pfizer but who knows.if they can afford it. Mandy is lucky he lives here. [00:48] DaemonFC[m] If you're in the Philippines, probably just government swine and rich people can get vaccines. [00:48] DaemonFC[m] Everyone else just gets what they get. [00:50] DaemonFC[m] I went to the dental school to get an exam for a cleaning next week and most of the students there asked me how I felt after the first dose. Said they heard all sorts of crazy things like sterility. [00:50] DaemonFC[m] I said that seemed like an unlikely effect. [00:52] DaemonFC[m] But since I don't plan on having kids anyway, I'd take the vaccine if it protects from COVID even if it did. [00:52] DaemonFC[m] Most men are not so lucky as to become sterile and not smart enough to do it to themselves. [00:53] DaemonFC[m] Without kids, it's at least theoretically possible that the divorce judge lets you keep something of yours. [00:54] schestowitz__ can we talk tech again? [00:54] DaemonFC[m] Sorry, I just get the lay of the land on what people think. [00:55] DaemonFC[m] It seems to me that more than half the people I talk to are deeply skeptical of this. [00:55] schestowitz__ it's too early [00:55] schestowitz__ and very sleazy firm [00:55] schestowitz__ anyway, back to tech [00:55] *swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c) [00:55] schestowitz__ I just realised we did not back up the DBs for weeks!!! [00:55] schestowitz__ After we uninstalled mariadb [00:55] DaemonFC[m] Naughty [00:55] schestowitz__ without taking into account this machine does need it for mysqldump [00:56] schestowitz__ anyway, no harm done because the main DBs were OK all along [00:56] schestowitz__ but still risky [00:56] DaemonFC[m] Did you see that zdnet article bashing SSDs because Apple's have the write of death issue? [00:56] schestowitz__ zdnet? [00:56] schestowitz__ not interested [00:56] schestowitz__ life is too short for spam [00:56] DaemonFC[m] I have one that's 8 years old and one that's 5 years old. [00:56] DaemonFC[m] Not even any bad cells in either of those. [00:57] schestowitz__ my main laptop is ssd [00:57] DaemonFC[m] I think the technology is sound. [00:57] schestowitz__ so far it's fast at write/read [00:57] schestowitz__ which is kind of fun [00:57] schestowitz__ full drive backup in 30 mins [00:57] DaemonFC[m] Apple makes a shitty computer. ZDnet be all like SSD bad. SSD baaaad!!! [00:58] DaemonFC[m] They have a history of weird bugs and trying to save a nickel and leaving their customers cleaning up the mess. [00:59] DaemonFC[m] I've had lots of hard drives develop bad sectors or crash and no SSD errors yet. [00:59] *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights [00:59] schestowitz__ gn [00:59] schestowitz__ backups all back in order ● Mar 02 [01:06] *swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c) [01:15] vmg3 That SimplyNews is quite impressive, I think some lawyers may be less impressed. [01:19] *wineroots (f24d257755@gateway/shell/disroot.org/x-nteygczchcqxuisb) has joined #techrights [01:24] vmg3 cool won't be long for heart rate I suspect https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/1/22307373/gatorade-sweat-patch-test-hydration-app [01:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | Gatorades new Gx Sweat Patch tests your sweat for smarter hydration - The Verge [01:26] *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights [01:30] vmg3 I think something wearable rather than stick on would be a better option [01:35] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [01:35] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [01:38] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 33.51 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 29.70 swarm size (avg): 118.20 [01:42] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [01:43] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Mar 02 [02:04] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [02:16] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [02:16] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [02:26] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [02:27] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [02:31] techrights-bot *** *** Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-010321.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-010321.txt Read the log now... [02:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: Monday, March 01, 2021 [02:31] techrights-bot *** *** Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-010321.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-010321.txt Read the log now... [02:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Monday, March 01, 2021 [02:31] techrights-bot *** *** Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-010321.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-010321.txt Read the log now... [02:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: Monday, March 01, 2021 [02:31] techrights-bot *** *** Yesterday's #techbytes IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-010321.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-010321.txt Read the log now... [02:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Monday, March 01, 2021 [02:32] techrights-bot *** *** Yesterday's bulletin ready. http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2021-03-01.txt [02:33] DaemonFC[m] https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/2021/02/25/illinois-residents-flock-state-fairgrounds-springfield-covid-vaccine/6801470002/ [02:33] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.sj-r.com | Illinois residents flock to State Fairgrounds for COVID vaccine [02:33] DaemonFC[m] Not just me. [02:37] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 33.51 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 29.70 swarm size (avg): 118.02 [02:37] vmg3 biotech [02:40] DaemonFC[m] I made the ladies at the dental clinic laugh. [02:41] DaemonFC[m] They asked how it worked. I said "lipids and messenger RNA in a nanoparticle solution". [02:41] vmg3 I'm scared to ask [02:41] DaemonFC[m] One of them said, "Nanoparticle solution?". [02:41] DaemonFC[m] I said, "Yeah, I'm sort of hoping it overwrites my DNA and turns it into machine phase matter so I can be a T-3000 terminator.". [02:42] vmg3 yeah :) [02:42] DaemonFC[m] Aside from the movie mistakes, Genisys wasn't the worst of the series. [02:42] DaemonFC[m] Salvation wasn't bad either. [02:43] DaemonFC[m] T3 and Dark Fate shouldn't have been made. [02:43] DaemonFC[m] But Salvation or Genisys could have been suitable for reboots. [02:43] vmg3 still better than a lot of the movie that have been coming out since covid [02:43] vmg3 there have been some shockers [02:43] DaemonFC[m] I suppose Salvation was technically part of the same timeline as 3 though. [02:44] DaemonFC[m] Skynet was still using an upgraded T-1. [02:44] vmg3 even the series wasn't to bad [02:44] DaemonFC[m] There's a new series coming to Netflix. [02:45] vmg3 something to keep an eye out for [02:45] DaemonFC[m] Salvation was a bit of a mess. [02:46] DaemonFC[m] The T-H had the advantage over the T-800 in the fact that it was based on an actual human. [02:46] vmg3 not memorable [02:46] DaemonFC[m] It just had an upgraded endoskeleton, enhanced internal organs, and a chip that planted directives in the subconscious mind. [02:47] vmg3 there's a few fan things on Youtube too [02:47] vmg3 harder to watch [02:47] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, the T-X turned out to be the worst. [02:47] MinceR 02 034345 < vmg3> there have been some shockers [02:47] MinceR two in the pink, one in the stink? [02:48] vmg3 flip that [02:48] DaemonFC[m] Oh god....John used to say that. [02:48] MinceR :) [02:50] vmg3 resident alien is not to bad [02:52] vmg3 for a laugh ● Mar 02 [03:01] techrights-ipfs IPFS local node stats TotalIn: 7.8 MB TotalOut: 3.6 MB [03:01] techrights-ipfs New bulletin just generated and added to IPFS with CID: [03:01] techrights-ipfs QmcR4sVbAs9c71Bh9t9M8xCk5YQJAHUKEK9hpNtc3ZUxnk [03:07] vmg3 Money talks https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/jamal-khashoggi-intelligence-report-three-names-removed/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fedition_asia+%28RSS%3A+CNNi+-+Asia%29 [03:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Jamal Khashoggi: Three names removed from intelligence report after initial publication - CNNPolitics [03:32] vmg3 Talking about farmers would be a more effective hit https://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/010321/chinese-hackers-targeted-indias-power-through-malware-amid-border-tension-report.html [03:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.asianage.com | Chinese hackers targeted India's power through malware amid border tension: Report [03:38] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 33.83 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 6.28 swarm size (avg): 118.11 [03:49] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [03:51] vmg3 Hypocrites gemini://simplynews.metalune.xyz/makeuseof.com/tiktok-settles-privacy-lawsuit ● Mar 02 [04:04] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [04:05] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [04:05] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [04:15] *kupi has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [04:18] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [04:26] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [04:27] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [04:38] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 22.13 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 11.90 swarm size (avg): 118.37 [04:51] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights ● Mar 02 [05:10] *koo5 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [05:15] *balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [05:18] *balrog (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) has joined #techrights [05:38] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 21.60 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 6.11 swarm size (avg): 118.66 [05:44] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [05:57] *tr_guest|4135 (6c5197a2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.81.151.162) has joined #techrights [05:57] *tr_guest|4135 has quit (Client Quit) ● Mar 02 [06:18] *balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [06:20] *balrog (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) has joined #techrights [06:38] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 21.61 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 16.08 swarm size (avg): 118.93 [06:40] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [06:47] schestowitz__ vmg3: INDEED [06:47] schestowitz__ [03:07] Money talks https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/28/politics/jamal-khashoggi-intelligence-report-three-names-removed/index.html [06:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Jamal Khashoggi: Three names removed from intelligence report after initial publication - CNNPolitics [06:47] schestowitz__ it hurts terrorists when they're named [06:47] schestowitz__ we need to be considerate of their feeling [06:47] vmg3 nothings sacred. [06:48] schestowitz__ [01:15] That SimplyNews is quite impressive, I think some lawyers may be less impressed. [06:48] schestowitz__ Link tax? [06:48] schestowitz__ Maybe aus will try to charge the operator [06:49] vmg3 i thinking of political confusion re piratebay just supplying links [06:50] vmg3 and advertisers may become peeved [06:50] schestowitz__ let them [06:50] schestowitz__ anyway, we just convert our own articles [06:50] schestowitz__ and Daily Links posts are Fair Use [06:50] vmg3 they have done a great job with it [06:50] schestowitz__ there are several scrapers in gemini that simplify major news sites [06:50] *balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [06:50] vmg3 even for personal use [06:51] schestowitz__ like scihub they can claim moral imperative [06:51] schestowitz__ because of the spying [06:51] schestowitz__ but scihub has a more potent legal case [06:51] vmg3 yeah thats another silly case [06:51] schestowitz__ like few publishers pillaging off the work of scholars while denying them access to it [06:51] vmg3 there should be some common good clause in the law [06:52] schestowitz__ for scraping news site into gemtext it's harder to come up with a moral reason [06:52] vmg3 that ip case you posted yesterday with the colour on the trucks had me shaking my head too [06:52] schestowitz__ i guess they do not archive, but still... [06:52] schestowitz__ they know who operates those capsules, it is not a secret [06:53] vmg3 yeah even they said is should be on the down low [06:53] schestowitz__ https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/2021/005824.html [06:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.orbitalfox.eu | SimplyNews on gemini [06:53] schestowitz__ " [06:53] vmg3 i would say for research purposes [06:53] schestowitz__ I'd like to announce that SimplyNews is now available on gemini: [06:53] schestowitz__ gemini://simplynews.metalune.xyz [06:54] schestowitz__ just open it and see, we offer a small range of mirrored news sites, you [06:54] schestowitz__ can also open existing articles by appending it with [06:54] schestowitz__ gemini://simplynews.metalune.xyz/ i.e. if you want to look at [06:54] schestowitz__ https://dt.gl/some/random/article you would do [06:54] schestowitz__ gemini://simplynews.metalune.xyz/dt.gl/some/andom/article. [06:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://dt.gl/some/random/article/ ) [06:54] schestowitz__ I would also appreciate it if it wouldn't get *too* popular as it's a [06:54] schestowitz__ little "iffy" legally speaking (at least here in germany) [06:54] schestowitz__ " [06:54] schestowitz__ notice last two sentences [06:54] vmg3 yes [06:54] vmg3 a demonstration [06:54] vmg3 to show ability [06:54] schestowitz__ no [06:54] schestowitz__ not for news [06:55] schestowitz__ in scihub they can say "research" [06:55] schestowitz__ like access to medical info [06:55] schestowitz__ to save lives [06:55] schestowitz__ in this case they scrape the whole article or hundreds of them [06:55] schestowitz__ without even touching the originals' servers [06:55] vmg3 I'm now legal expert [06:55] schestowitz__ they could contact to demand a licence [06:55] schestowitz__ AP has very expensive licences [06:56] schestowitz__ now or not, vmg3? [06:56] vmg3 s/no/now [06:56] schestowitz__ but surely the person knows the risk of getting a letter from site operators of licensors [06:56] vmg3 there would only be 2 sites I would be concerned about [06:57] vmg3 no database [06:58] schestowitz__ you could, btw, make a db-driven gemni capsule [06:58] schestowitz__ taking requests, then processing them or serving them based on the requests [06:58] schestowitz__ though i guess almost all such sites are static [06:58] vmg3 then collect evidence [06:58] vmg3 no thanks [06:59] vmg3 you could use FB and Twitter as a defence maybe [06:59] *balrog (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) has joined #techrights ● Mar 02 [07:00] schestowitz__ not really [07:00] schestowitz__ for several reasons [07:00] schestowitz__ inc. no "fulltext" [07:00] schestowitz__ not sure if FB enforces it [07:00] schestowitz__ in Twitter the text length limits are a thing [07:01] schestowitz__ I'm not "on FB", so I don't know how often people copy across full article text [07:01] schestowitz__ and whether FB takes those down [07:01] vmg3 I think the moderators and lawyers will be kept busy there anyway. but they seem to like creating work for themselves [07:02] vmg3 what if you made a twitterbot to scrape the gemini capsule and post? [07:03] vmg3 get them chasing the tail [07:03] vmg3 plagiarism is rife [07:04] vmg3 post a jpg [07:04] vmg3 evil [07:05] schestowitz__ needs to go back to Finland: https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/6-days-without-electricity-what-the-inventor-of-microsoft-windows-rival-linux-did/articleshow/81285740.cms [07:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gadgetsnow.com | 6 days without electricity: What the inventor of Microsoft Windows-rival Linux did - Latest News | Gadgets Now [07:05] schestowitz__ us infra rotting [07:05] schestowitz__ even in portland area [07:06] schestowitz__ not just texas [07:06] vmg3 I was thinking about this too. I like to think I'm well prepared for emergency but 6 days without power would be nasty [07:07] schestowitz__ In the age of remote work I can imagine him saying the same to his wife during the outage [07:07] schestowitz__ she too is a Finn [07:07] schestowitz__ time to go back [07:07] schestowitz__ US circling down the drain [07:07] schestowitz__ and he can do the same work from Helsinki [07:07] vmg3 yeah the drums are beating [07:07] schestowitz__ then I thought [07:07] schestowitz__ can you get enough battery life left to print out code? [07:07] schestowitz__ And then annotate the printout? [07:08] schestowitz__ you cannot get a generator [07:08] vmg3 a small tablet [07:08] schestowitz__ not enugh time [07:08] schestowitz__ and demand for them would be too high [07:08] vmg3 and a battery [07:08] vmg3 routers would be out [07:08] schestowitz__ so you'd be lucky if you already had a diesel generator in place years in advance [07:08] schestowitz__ just in case [07:08] vmg3 yeah [07:08] schestowitz__ people just assume water and power MUST ALWAYS be there [07:08] schestowitz__ you turn it on [07:08] schestowitz__ and it's there [07:09] schestowitz__ same for food [07:09] schestowitz__ running out? [07:09] schestowitz__ JUST GO TO THE STORE? [07:09] vmg3 power you can live without if it's not to cold [07:09] schestowitz__ Home break-in? [07:09] schestowitz__ Phone police [07:09] schestowitz__ and ambulance [07:09] vmg3 water not so much [07:09] schestowitz__ sometimes those things just stop [07:09] vmg3 even when i tour on the bike it becomes a problem [07:09] vmg3 heavy shit [07:09] schestowitz__ [07:08] routers would be out [07:10] schestowitz__ but if you have the code locally,.... OH WAIT!! Printer needs power too [07:10] schestowitz__ so you are out of luck [07:10] schestowitz__ no router, no printer [07:10] schestowitz__ you can just read your code off the screen [07:10] schestowitz__ until power runs out [07:10] vmg3 if the telco goes down to [07:10] schestowitz__ unless you hand-write all the code [07:10] vmg3 pen and paper [07:10] schestowitz__ and then work on that hand-written stuff [07:10] schestowitz__ welcome caveman [07:11] vmg3 more like an asylum [07:11] schestowitz__ and then write back all the code changes to the machine [07:11] vmg3 scrawl on the walls [07:11] schestowitz__ if your hand-writing is good enough [07:11] vmg3 i think i've forgotten how to write [07:11] schestowitz__ people assume they can use the neighbour's power [07:11] schestowitz__ or water [07:11] schestowitz__ or food [07:11] vmg3 yes [07:11] schestowitz__ though most likely they have the same deficit at the same time [07:12] schestowitz__ you might be lucky if a rich neighbour has a generator [07:12] vmg3 I have some freeze dried stashed away ready for my next outing [07:12] schestowitz__ and lets you charge stuff off it [07:12] schestowitz__ or just use power for other thinga [07:12] schestowitz__ not knowing if it's 6 days down or 16 [07:12] vmg3 I've been thinking of turning my trainer into a generator [07:12] schestowitz__ so might be preserving power for oneself [07:12] schestowitz__ same for spare food supplies [07:13] schestowitz__ get out those hand-cranks [07:13] vmg3 just a fridge and freezer going down for a few days is a disaster [07:13] schestowitz__ Bill Gates thw sociopaths mocked those things [07:13] schestowitz__ world's biggest polluter [07:13] schestowitz__ mocked OLPC for being possible to run with hand-cranks [07:13] vmg3 I have a small fold out solar panel i use [07:13] schestowitz__ Mr. private jets [07:14] schestowitz__ those people are nuts, they never met a poor person except for one-minute photo ops [07:14] vmg3 just usb power but it charges my battery [07:14] vmg3 warm in the jet [07:15] vmg3 even the rich would suffer [07:15] vmg3 the mega rich would find a way [07:15] vmg3 there would be anarchy after 3-4 days [07:16] vmg3 logistics is key [07:16] vmg3 they would all go home first day [07:17] vmg3 generators need fuel [07:17] vmg3 no water to flush toilets would create disease [07:18] vmg3 what kind of calamity is to come? [07:18] mjg59 (OLPC wasn't possible to run with hand-cranks) [07:19] vmg3 the army would have to come in [07:20] vmg3 I'd be down the beach if it wasnt to cold [07:20] vmg3 computers would be the last thing [07:21] vmg3 If it's a solar flare or the like they would be useless [07:22] vmg3 I've always giggled at the preppers [07:23] vmg3 family first i guess [07:23] vmg3 would satellites go down? [07:24] vmg3 gps? how long since anyone used a map [07:26] vmg3 people would be stealing solar panels off roofs [07:28] vmg3 mad max [07:29] vmg3 There are good people out there [07:30] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [07:31] vmg3 I had a guy knock on my door 2 days ago said who are you, I was my charming self and said who the hell are you, he told me his name then i told him mine and he gave me back my wallet with all my money still in it. bloody lucky, I didn't even know I'd lost it. [07:31] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [07:32] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [07:34] vmg3 I thanked him profusely and tried to give him the small notes in the front 40-50 buck but he just said all good the thanks is enough [07:36] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [07:37] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 22.68 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 16.41 swarm size (avg): 118.82 [07:38] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-169-167.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [07:39] *balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [07:43] vmg3 frozen wasteland [07:45] *balrog (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) has joined #techrights [07:46] vmg3 I got an inverter off aliexpress a while ago I should get a truck battery or two now [07:47] vmg3 3 kw for $130 [07:48] vmg3 make something with an alternator and the trainer [07:49] vmg3 then all i need it a child to pedal while i watch movies [07:56] schestowitz__ [07:34] I thanked him profusely and tried to give him the small notes in the front 40-50 buck but he just said all good the thanks is enough [07:56] schestowitz__ nice [07:56] vmg3 yes I felt a bit guilty for my greeting [07:57] schestowitz__ yeah [07:57] vmg3 hope to run into him and buy him a beer or something. [07:57] schestowitz__ he must have though [07:57] schestowitz__ "why did I even bother?" [07:57] schestowitz__ *thought [07:57] vmg3 I could see the look on his face change as soon as i said it [07:57] vmg3 but he was patient [07:57] vmg3 yeah [07:58] schestowitz__ losing all those plastics is a pain [07:58] vmg3 yes [07:58] schestowitz__ worse than the money lost typically [07:58] schestowitz__ unless you rack up loads of cash in the wallet [07:58] vmg3 there was 300 in the zipped up bit [07:58] vmg3 and my cards [07:58] schestowitz__ you should have given 150 [07:58] vmg3 its a nice wallet [07:58] vmg3 Im a scrooge [07:58] schestowitz__ and apology for the greeting [07:59] schestowitz__ I've not lost a wallet since maybe 20+ years ago [07:59] vmg3 i never had the chance he was walking as soon as he handed it over [07:59] schestowitz__ I almost did [07:59] schestowitz__ always lucky enough to get it back [07:59] vmg3 i was blabbering like an idiot [07:59] schestowitz__ lol [07:59] vmg3 shocked i tell ya ● Mar 02 [08:00] vmg3 the area where i am is a shocker for low lifes [08:01] vmg3 1 in a thousand [08:01] vmg3 big block of units [08:02] vmg3 but he was a walker im sure i've seen him before [08:02] vmg3 maybe in his 60's [08:02] vmg3 peter you fucken legend [08:03] vmg3 now i button up my back pocket [08:04] vmg3 that was the day with the guitar strings and isp bullshit i'd had a shocker [08:05] vmg3 someone smiled on me I guess [08:06] vmg3 I'm glad i didn't have to work with the postal service like i noticed you did schestowitz__ [08:07] schestowitz__ i did? [08:07] vmg3 well they replied by mail [08:07] schestowitz__ well, I do need to send off a parcel thus afternoon [08:08] schestowitz__ will be my first time outdoor in a month [08:09] vmg3 we just had the one hard lockdown and its been good since then, only 300k people in tassie [08:09] vmg3 we've been very luck [08:10] vmg3 the states have been all shunning each other [08:10] vmg3 but an island is handy for this [08:11] vmg3 Melbourne copped the worst of it [08:11] vmg3 you will be masking up? [08:22] schestowitz__ https://dwaves.de/2021/03/02/roof-mounting-starlink-dish-do-not-drill-into-roof-ridgeline-roof-mount/ [08:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- Roof Mounting StarLink Dish DO NOT DRILL INTO ROOF! Ridgeline Roof Mount | dwaves.de [08:27] schestowitz__ pure hype [08:27] schestowitz__ also waste of energy [08:29] vmg3 the brick option looks a bit dodgy [08:29] vmg3 there is a mast point right near it [08:29] vmg3 it should drive down prices [08:32] vmg3 curious to see how secure it will be. [08:34] mjg59 Secure information wise, or secure not falling off the building wise? [08:34] vmg3 information [08:34] mjg59 It's fine [08:36] mjg59 Their security people are competent [08:36] vmg3 I don't doubt that [08:36] vmg3 but they will still try [08:36] mjg59 I've had access to one of their devices [08:37] mjg59 Only found a couple of extremely minor issues which weren't meaningfully exploitable [08:37] vmg3 getting bumped off continuously could be a pain [08:37] mjg59 And pretty solid 50 mbit/sec with acceptable latency [08:37] mjg59 It's a genuine improvement over anything else available in rural areas [08:37] vmg3 I was hoping for something a bit more portable [08:37] techrights-ipfs IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 22.63 IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 16.40 swarm size (avg): 118.66 [08:37] vmg3 yeah agreed [08:38] mjg59 You need a pretty big dish for it to work with the constellation sizes [08:38] vmg3 latency looks nice [08:38] mjg59 Need to cover a certain arc of the sky [08:38] mjg59 Hardware design is nice, software design is better than most embedded stuff I've seen [08:38] vmg3 yeah we still have dish on roof for tv unused [08:39] vmg3 i'm a little envious [08:39] mjg59 I'm solidly on team Fuck Elon, but this is genuinely competent [08:40] vmg3 lol yeah he's a bit of a douche [08:40] vmg3 but he can afford to be i guess [08:40] mjg59 And to be fair it's a result of the failure of infrastructure dev in a lot of countries [08:41] mjg59 There's no fundamental reason we couldn't achieve this without launching so many satellites [08:41] mjg59 But since that's failed, we're left with this [08:41] vmg3 yeah google has the ballons [08:41] mjg59 Not any more, Loon shut down last month [08:41] vmg3 really oh [08:41] schestowitz__ loloon [08:42] vmg3 :) [08:42] schestowitz__ how to spy on more people [08:42] schestowitz__ 'free' connection [08:42] schestowitz__ FB does the same [08:42] schestowitz__ some 'charity' [08:42] schestowitz__ 'zero'-rating, too [08:42] vmg3 they were supplying some remote communities in the Northern territory [08:43] mjg59 Anyway, StarLink is going to be amazing for a lot of people living in areas that have no useful infrastructure [08:43] mjg59 Huge parts of the US are still on 1Mbit DSL or geosynchronous satellite [08:43] vmg3 some shit up there now [08:43] vmg3 that would blow [08:44] mjg59 The latter means less bandwidth and much worse latency [08:44] vmg3 yeah [08:44] mjg59 Anyway, bed [08:44] vmg3 o/ [08:44] mjg59 Ignore Roy pontificating about technology he doesn't understand [08:44] vmg3 you guys obviously love each other [08:45] vmg3 the lines are to blurry for a simpleton like me [08:47] vmg3 i just see dancing [08:50] vmg3 end users dont care about gnu2 or 3 or cc we just want it to work [08:56] schestowitz__ vmg3: he's just ambushing for dirt here [08:57] vmg3 fishing [08:57] vmg3 without discussion there is nothing for me to learn [08:58] vmg3 then forget [08:58] vmg3 I'm a goldfish ● Mar 02 [09:04] techrights-bot #IRC Proceedings: Monday, March 01, 2021 http://techrights.org/2021/03/02/irc-log-010321/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/03/02/irc-log-010321/ [09:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC Proceedings: Monday, March 01, 2021 | Techrights [09:05] techrights-bot #SDL2 Lands Native #PipeWire Support https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=SDL2-Lands-PipeWire-Audio [09:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SDL2 Lands Native PipeWire Support - Phoronix [09:06] techrights-bot "Linux on another planet, Chrome OS enjoys huge success, great Firefox improvements, a flawed but well-meaning idea for a laptop, free RHEL for FOSS projects, Xfce news, and KDE Korner." https://latenightlinux.com/late-night-linux-episode-114/ [09:06] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-latenightlinux.com | Late Night Linux Episode 114 Late Night Linux [09:06] techrights-bot Browser fingerprinting comes to mind https://www.otsukare.info/2021/02/15/capping-macos-user-agent [09:06] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.otsukare.info | Capping macOS User Agent String on macOS 11 - otsukare [09:07] techrights-bot #Techrights Bulletin for Monday, March 01, 2021 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext [09:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Bulletin Archives [09:07] techrights-bot #Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing [09:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Techrights Full IPFS Index [09:11] techrights-bot #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148318 #Google #Linux #TuxMachines [09:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines [09:12] techrights-bot Compact Arm Linux gateway features #ThingsBoard IoT software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148317 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [09:12] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Compact Arm Linux gateway features ThingsBoard IoT software | Tux Machines [09:13] techrights-bot This service is maintained by the Federated Networks Association [09:13] techrights-bot Best Screen Capture Tools for Linux in 2021 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148316 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [09:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Best Screen Capture Tools for Linux in 2021 | Tux Machines [09:14] techrights-bot NVIDIA introduces lower cost Jetson TX2 NX SO-DIMM module http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148315 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [09:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | NVIDIA introduces lower cost Jetson TX2 NX SO-DIMM module | Tux Machines [09:14] techrights-bot #Guake Terminal: A Customizable Linux Terminal for Power Users [Inspired by an #FPS Game] http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148314 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [09:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Guake Terminal: A Customizable Linux Terminal for Power Users [Inspired by an FPS Game] | Tux Machines [09:15] techrights-bot todays howots http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148313 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [09:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howots | Tux Machines [09:16] techrights-bot #HowTo solve zipimport.ZipImportError: cant decompress data; #zlib not available http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148312 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [09:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | How to solve zipimport.ZipImportError: cant decompress data; zlib not available | Tux Machines [09:16] techrights-bot Linux Kernel 5.12 RC-1 Released with Many ARM Board Support #kernel #Linux #TuxMachines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148311 [09:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Kernel 5.12 RC-1 Released with Many ARM Board Support | Tux Machines [09:17] techrights-bot #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148310 #Google #Linux #TuxMachines [09:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines ● Mar 02 [10:01] techrights-bot #Emmabunts #Debian Edition 3 1.04 Released with Debian GNU/Linux 10.8 Buster Updates http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148319 #GNU #Linux #TuxMac [10:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Emmabunts Debian Edition 3 1.04 Released with Debian GNU/Linux 10.8 Buster Updates | Tux Machines [10:06] techrights-bot We're coming to a point where #socialcontrolmedia #monopolies get to decide that it's illegal or "violence" or "life-threatening" to point out some voting machines have back doors and some of the dozen or so vaccines make false claims (none properly tested for long-term effects yet) [10:10] *scientes2 (~scientes2@5.152.47.9) has joined #techrights [10:11] techrights-bot Overuse of labels such as "conspiracy theorist" will render such labels rather meaningless. Like partisan politics where each voter is either "Marxist" or "Nazi"... like brand dilution in #trademark sense/realm... or Godwin's Law [10:13] techrights-bot old: #China : Thirty years since the #TiananmenSquare massacre https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/10/leps-s10.html "100,000 people assembled" [10:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.wsws.org | China: Thirty years since the Tiananmen Square massacre - World Socialist Web Site [10:14] techrights-bot old: "Short introduction about Gemini: it's a very recent protocol that is being simplistic and limited. Keys features are: pages are written in markdown like, mandatory TLS, no header, UTF-8 encoding only." https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2020-11-30-gemini-vger-server.html [10:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-dataswamp.org | Solene's percent % : How to deploy Vger gemini server on OpenBSD [10:15] techrights-bot old: Looting is a real problem. But oligarchs-owned media doesn't tell us that its owners are the REAL looters. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tax-cuts-rich-50-years-no-trickle-down/ [10:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cbsnews.com | 50 years of tax cuts for the rich failed to trickle down, economics study says - CBS News [10:16] techrights-bot #Sarkozy in prison https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56237818 "avoided actual penalties though" and his enablers and mates like #battistelli need to join him in a cell http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Beno%C3%AEt_Battistelli [10:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sarkozy: Former French president sentenced to jail for corruption - BBC News [10:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Benot Battistelli - Techrights [10:18] techrights-bot Notice how 'trolls' in media made the news about #linux all about "LINUS" https://www.gadgetsnow.com/tech-news/6-days-without-electricity-what-the-inventor-of-microsoft-windows-rival-linux-did/articleshow/81285740.cms see http://techrights.org/2020/05/25/no-technical-journalism/ and http://techrights.org/2021/01/06/linus-instead-of-linux/ [10:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gadgetsnow.com | 6 days without electricity: What the inventor of Microsoft Windows-rival Linux did - Latest News | Gadgets Now [10:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Journalism in 2020: Far More Articles About What Computer Linus Torvalds Bought Than About Linux Releases | Techrights [10:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Gossip Mill as News: The Mainstream Media Covers Linus Instead of Linux | Techrights [10:20] techrights-bot #corporateMedia is doomed because it's provoking and lying. Sure, most people don't care about "Linux 5.12" (not like "WINDOWS TEN!!!") and don't know what RC stands for or technically means. Not fun and exciting news, maybe boring, but that's the news. Stop making drama over a person! http://techrights.org/2020/05/25/no-technical-journalism/ [10:20] techrights-bot Personification of the news by corporate or mainstream media may be useful for the advertising industry; but it doesnt contribute to public understanding of whats really important and what constitutes news http://techrights.org/2021/01/06/linus-instead-of-linux/ [10:22] techrights-bot #newscientist on #wikipedia (which is gamed heavily by PR people and corporate stooges) https://www.newscientist.com/article/2269414-wikipedia-has-seen-a-spike-in-people-editing-pages-during-the-pandemic/ [10:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.newscientist.com | Wikipedia has seen a spike in people editing pages during the pandemic | New Scientist [10:24] techrights-bot I have long waited for something that replaces what we have, but #microsoft #proprietarySoftware #github is an immediate way to discredit an effort. #deletegithub to be taken seriously. https://bsd.network/@stsp/105813515779119321 [10:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bsd.network | Stefan Sperling: "Omar Polo is developing an #emacs version control" - BSD Network [10:25] techrights-bot Using #github to host #freesw is like having a vegetarian meetup in a meatplant http://techrights.org/2020/06/15/confessions-of-scott-guthrie/ [10:25] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Story About Microsofts Plan for GitHub Says a Lot About the Motivations and the Lies Told to Us for Over Half a Decade | Techrights [10:25] scientes2 Schestowitz, under every tiananmen square lies a politician. [10:26] techrights-bot "gas companies are the new tobacco companies - as cynical, selfish and ruthless" https://mastodon.social/@glynmoody/105816846726245264 [10:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mastodon.social | Glyn Moody: "A Texas city had a bold new climate plan until " - Mastodon [10:28] schestowitz__ under every rock lies a tiananmen square massacre [10:29] schestowitz__ and under every rock there is a person massacred [10:29] schestowitz__ Wounded Knee Massacre [10:30] techrights-bot "The protest followed the failure of an effort of the Oglala Sioux Civil Rights Organization (OSCRO) to impeach tribal president Richard Wilson, whom they accused of corruption and abuse of opponents." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Occupation [10:30] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Wounded Knee Occupation - Wikipedia [10:32] techrights-bot "U.S. settlers were alarmed by the sight of the many Great Basin and Plains tribes performing the Ghost Dance, worried that it might be a prelude to armed attack." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre [10:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Wounded Knee Massacre - Wikipedia [10:33] scientes2 Xraven86 I only hear about governor frugal now. [10:33] scientes2 Furgal [10:33] schestowitz__ I didn't know about the 20th century incident [10:33] schestowitz__ had to look that up [10:34] schestowitz__ if they were "libertarians" like Bundy, all cool [10:34] schestowitz__ occupation might even be encouraged by the cops [10:34] scientes2 I was there [10:34] scientes2 Wounded knee [10:34] schestowitz__ like in the Capital coup [10:34] schestowitz__ Capitol [10:34] scientes2 There is a huge mountain statue [10:34] schestowitz__ their carbon footprint is low [10:34] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [10:34] scientes2 As glorious as mt. Rushmore. [10:35] schestowitz__ some say oligarchs like Gates pollute 10,000 more than the average person [10:35] schestowitz__ we need to talk about such things... [10:35] scientes2 Look up cheat neutral [10:35] schestowitz__ Trump weaponised Rushmore [10:35] schestowitz__ to incite racial tensions [10:35] schestowitz__ that country is "done" to me... [10:35] scientes2 https://youtu.be/I6zpnVW134k [10:35] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cheat Neutral - YouTube [10:35] schestowitz__ iirc, you left and don't intend to return [10:36] schestowitz__ with covid it'll be harder for more people to do it [10:36] schestowitz__ us 3rd worst for cases/capita (among those that test enough) [10:36] schestowitz__ youtube :/ [10:36] schestowitz__ I rarely click on those links [10:36] schestowitz__ too much JS [10:36] schestowitz__ and google now blocks you [10:37] schestowitz__ unless you run its programs [10:37] schestowitz__ sometimes MinceR puts in a video file [10:37] schestowitz__ link drop that doesn't run JS [10:37] schestowitz__ just fetches one file [10:37] scientes2 Youtube-dl [10:37] schestowitz__ [09:58] NEWS #Bloomberg #YouTube Suspends #RudyGiuliani Again for #Election Fraud Claims https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-01/youtube-suspends-rudy-giuliani-again-for-election-fraud-claims [10:37] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Bloomberg - Are you a robot? [10:37] schestowitz__ [09:58] [Notice] -TechrightsSocial to #boycottnovell-social- Bloomberg - Are you a robot? [10:38] schestowitz__ [09:58] NEWS #TheVerge #Politics #RudyGiuliani just lost his #YouTube privileges for two weeks https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/1/22308377/rudy-giuliani-youtube-suspension-strike-two-weeks [10:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | Rudy Giuliani just lost his YouTube privileges for two weeks - The Verge [10:38] schestowitz__ [10:01] [Notice] -TechrightsSocial to #boycottnovell-social- www.tuxmachines.org | Emmabunts Debian Edition 3 1.04 Released with Debian GNU/Linux 10.8 Buster Updates | Tux Machines [10:38] schestowitz__ [10:04] NEWS #HollywoodReporter #Politics #YouTube Suspends #RudyGiuliani Again https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/youtube-suspends-rudy-giuliani-again [10:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.hollywoodreporter.com | YouTube Suspends Rudy Giuliani Again | Hollywood Reporter [10:38] schestowitz__ That's today [10:38] schestowitz__ I'm glad I spent no time on that site [10:38] schestowitz__ seems to have turned the switch on some agenda [10:38] schestowitz__ and it's not video hosting [10:38] schestowitz__ youtube-dl is a workaround [10:38] schestowitz__ Google still logs your IP [10:39] schestowitz__ and request/URL [10:39] schestowitz__ maybe not mouse movements and location, except when the IP gives the latter away [10:49] techrights-bot How weird that in #mozilla #firefox options, the setting for default zoom is either 30% or 50% or 100% or higher (nothing below or in between). Just let me enter a number. The #ux cargo cult strikes again! User 'too dumb' to enter a number? [10:50] techrights-bot FOSS Patents: #Law profs to Federal Circuit: China's antisuit injunction case law is consistent and compatible with U.S. approach, Ericsson's anti-antisuit injunction against #Samsung should be overturned http://www.fosspatents.com/2021/03/law-profs-to-federal-circuit-chinas.html #fosspatents [10:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fosspatents.com | FOSS Patents: Law profs to Federal Circuit: China's antisuit injunction case law is consistent and compatible with U.S. approach, Ericsson's anti-antisuit injunction against Samsung should be overturned [10:52] techrights-bot Wow. #JUVEPatent become a #law firms' #marketing site, hardly even pretending to be about the news. Fake rankings that act like ads. "In JUVE Patents latest ranking video, France correspondents Christina Schulze and Konstanze Richter discuss the main forces driving the French patent market" [10:58] techrights-bot "Once the integration completes, the developers building on Avalanche will first time have access to develop smart contracts using Linux and uncountable mainstream software stack." https://www.altcoinbuzz.io/cryptocurrency-news/product-release/cartesi-ctsi-opens-linux-environment-gates-for-avalanche/ [10:58] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.altcoinbuzz.io | Cartesi (CTSI) Opens Linux Environment Gates for Avalanche - Product Release & Updates - Altcoin Buzz ● Mar 02 [11:01] techrights-bot #programming professionals: HOW would you do that? #ux 'professionals': WHY would you want to do that? Destroying software little by little so that it sucks up more resources, harms #privacy (for 'research'), and does far less, except for software masters and advertisers... [11:02] *scientes2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [11:04] vmg3 I can't keep up argh [11:04] techrights-bot #Gaming in #Nitrux pt. 1: Get Started " Nitrux #YourNextOS https://nxos.org/tutorial/gaming-in-nitrux-pt-1-get-started/ #nxos #freesw [11:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nxos.org | Gaming in Nitrux pt. 1: Get Started Nitrux #YourNextOS [11:05] techrights-bot #Portal2 gets more #DXVK #Vulkan improvements with another update | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/03/portal-2-gets-more-dxvk-vulkan-improvements-with-another-update #GamingOnLinux [11:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Portal 2 gets more DXVK Vulkan improvements with another update | GamingOnLinux [11:08] techrights-bot Well, 'your' #RaspberryPi is being monitored by #microsoft now... so better do the same as here but with a different SBC https://opensource.com/article/21/3/raspberry-pi-grafana-cloud see http://techrights.org/2021/02/18/raspberry-pi-breaks-up-with-free-software-community/ [11:08] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Monitor your Raspberry Pi with Grafana Cloud | Opensource.com [11:08] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Raspberry Pi Reaffirms Its Commitment to Microsoft (as Trojan Horse Inside Classrooms) and Abandons the Free Software Community | Techrights [11:09] techrights-bot "the first multi-processor version of Unix, three years ahead of Sun Microsystems and HP." https://swarajyamag.com/technology/the-hard-core-of-hcl-fades-into-history [11:09] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-swarajyamag.com | The 'Hard' Core Of HCL Fades Into History [11:13] *DVulgaris has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [11:18] *mmu_man (~revol@82-65-227-82.subs.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [11:22] *DVulgaris (~quassel@185.108.81.14) has joined #techrights [11:26] techrights-bot Refund of pre-installed Windows: Lenovo must pay 20,000 euros in damages http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148321 And later on #fsfe takes "sponsorship" money from #microsoft ... as for #lenovo ... they have 'history' http://techrights.org/2016/10/02/lenovo-forums-censorship/ [11:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Refund of pre-installed Windows: Lenovo must pay 20,000 euros in damages | Tux Machines [11:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Guest Post: Lenovo Forums Possibly Banned All Comcast Users in Illinois in Order to Silence Discussion of Linux on Yoga Problems | Techrights [11:27] techrights-bot Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148322 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [11:27] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux Machines [11:27] techrights-bot Games: GTA, SDL, Gaming in #Nitrux , and Portal 2 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148320 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #games [11:27] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Games: GTA, SDL, Gaming in Nitrux, and Portal 2 | Tux Machines [11:29] techrights-bot #ibm : let's not code, let's do code of conduct instead and gag people (like opinionated folks who point out IBM is #racist and corrupt). "In 2020 we had more than two times the number of CoC reports when compared to 2019." https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-code-of-conduct-report-2020/ [11:29] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-communityblog.fedoraproject.org | Fedora Code of Conduct Report 2020 Fedora Community Blog [11:30] techrights-bot Racist #ibm ... very racist IBM. http://techrights.org/2020/09/29/ibm-keen-sense-of-public-relations/ Corrupt #linuxfoundation helps corrupt IBM to say the opposite of what's true. Follow the money. Money buys PERCEPTION. [11:30] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IBMs Founder, Mr. Watson (Yes, That Watson), Had Very Keen Sense of Public Relations | Techrights [11:31] techrights-bot #ibm : we don't fight black people, honest!!http://techrights.org/2020/08/16/ibm-powered-purges/ #racist #racism #nypd #eugenics [11:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Full Story (With References) of IBMs Role in a Purge of Black People and Mixed-Race Couples | Techrights [11:32] techrights-bot #ibm : we bought a company where the state went to war with the whole country (government) to keep black people as nothing but #slaves BUT: now we at IBM work to ban... not slavery but the word "slave" [11:35] techrights-bot When Matthew Miller et at say "Keep it up, and keep being awesome Fedora, we <3 you!" I totally believe them. The problem is, the big decisions aren't made by Matthew Miller and co but by greedy, litigious IBM, the "master" that pays the salary. Look what they did to #centos [11:37] techrights-bot 3 features that debuted in #Python 3.0 you should use now | https://opensource.com/article/21/3/python-new-features #FreeSW #RedHat #IBM #Linux [11:37] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-3 features that debuted in Python 3.0 you should use now | Opensource.com [11:41] *scientes2 (~scientes2@5.152.47.9) has joined #techrights [11:41] techrights-bot "Mike: Moz is on board. Google seems to be on board." #google is the 'master' of #mozilla though because... I mean... just look where the salaries at Mozilla come from. #surveillanceCapitalism https://www.otsukare.info/2021/03/02/capping-user-agent-string [11:41] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.otsukare.info | Capping User Agent String - followup meeting - otsukare [11:42] techrights-bot Hopefully enough people understand the degree to which use agents in a Web browser are leveraged for fingerprinting/tracking/surveillance/abuse [11:43] techrights-bot Learn Java with object orientation by building a classic Breakout game https://opensource.com/article/21/3/java-object-orientation #java #programming [11:43] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Learn Java with object orientation by building a classic Breakout game | Opensource.com [11:45] techrights-bot "A quick note to say that we finalized a bugfix release 0.1.5 of #RcppSimdJson yesterday which got onto CRAN earlier today." http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/blog/2021/02/24#rcppsimdjson_0.1.5 [11:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-dirk.eddelbuettel.com | Thinking inside the box [11:47] techrights-bot Ouch. Outsourcing not only code but also documentation to #microsoft #proprietarySofwtare with #surveillance (no excuses for this) http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/blog/2021/03/01/ #deletegithub [11:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-dirk.eddelbuettel.com | Thinking inside the box [11:48] techrights-bot Ouch. Outsourcing not only code but also documentation to #microsoft #proprietarySofwtare with #surveillance (no excuses for this) http://dirk.eddelbuettel.com/blog/2021/03/01/ #deletegithub [11:48] schestowitz__ #freesw developer on #github : it's just a tool, I know it's #proprietarySoftware [11:48] schestowitz__ Vegetarian activist: I need to eat hamburgers for energy... so I can promote the cause and end meat consumption [11:48] schestowitz__ #deletegithub [11:50] techrights-bot "Its possible to connect to the ESP32 thermal camera board in access point or station mode to control it with tCam console desktop application compatible with [GNU] Linux..." https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/03/02/tcam-mini-esp32-ir-thermal-camera-board/ [11:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cnx-software.com | tCam-Mini IR thermal camera board ships with ESP32 module [11:54] techrights-bot #patents against #innovation : "In the absence of a framework to promote harmonious licensing, SEP owners could, if they wish, use the #patent enforcement system to hold up or prevent their competitors from launching rival products" http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2021/03/02/a-welcome-statement-of-diverse-views-or-a-damning-indictment-of-a-hopelessly-fractured-system-on-the-eu-seps-expert-group-report-and-the- [11:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | A welcome statement of diverse views or a damning indictment of a hopelessly fractured system? On the EU SEPs Expert Group report and the state of SEP licensing - Kluwer Patent Blog [11:56] techrights-bot Felipe Borges: Save the date: #GNOME #LATAM 2021, March 27th https://feborg.es/save-the-date-gnome-latam-2021-march-27th/ #freesw #gnu #linux [11:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-feborg.es | Save the date: GNOME LATAM 2021, March 27th Felipe Borges [11:59] techrights-bot #LibreOffice Documentation and Guides http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148323 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #freesw [11:59] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | LibreOffice Documentation and Guides | Tux Machines ● Mar 02 [13:05] *koo5 (~koo5@37-48-28-155.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) has joined #techrights [13:25] *scientes2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [13:31] XRevan86 scientes: You hear nothing else but stuff about Khabarovsk and the governor Furgal? %) [13:35] *balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [13:38] *balrog (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) has joined #techrights [13:51] schestowitz__ Furgal? [13:51] schestowitz__ is it Frugal, too? [13:53] *koo5 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [13:55] techrights-bot #Codeberg Code Hosting is now with Documentation http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148324 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #freesw [13:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Codeberg Code Hosting is now with Documentation | Tux Machines [13:55] techrights-bot #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148325 #Google #Linux #TuxMachines [13:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines [13:56] XRevan86 schestowitz__: Furgal was frugal and paid the price you could say [13:58] schestowitz__ bloody fu*gal [13:59] techrights-bot #GodotEngine team grows with another developer now working on rendering | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/03/godot-engine-team-grows-with-another-developer-now-working-on-rendering #deletegithub [13:59] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Godot Engine team grows with another developer now working on rendering | GamingOnLinux ● Mar 02 [14:00] techrights-bot "The XR (VR/AR) space continues to evolve and one of the promising projects there is called StereoKit, an open source mixed reality library and a new release is out now adding in Linux support." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/03/open-source-mixed-reality-library-stereokit-adds-linux-support [14:00] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Open source mixed reality library StereoKit adds Linux support | GamingOnLinux [14:02] techrights-bot The #GNU #LinuxAppSummit (LAS) returns in May, applications open for talks until March 15 | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/03/the-linux-app-summit-las-returns-in-may-applications-open-for-talks-until-march-15 [14:02] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-The Linux App Summit (LAS) returns in May, applications open for talks until March 15 | GamingOnLinux [14:07] techrights-bot Padding and aligning data in #GNUpoke http://jemarch.net/pokology-20210302.html #gnu #freesw [14:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-jemarch.net | Applied Pokology - Padding and aligning data in GNU poke [14:14] DaemonFC[m] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/t-mobile-promised-more-jobs-after-merger-then-cut-5000-jobs-instead/ [14:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-arstechnica.com | We knew T-Mobile couldnt be trusted, union says after 5,000 job cuts | Ars Technica [14:15] DaemonFC[m] T-Mobile cut a net 5,000 jobs after the Sprint merger, after telling regulators that there would be more jobs so that they would approve the merger. [14:31] DaemonFC[m] https://wgntv.com/news/rooster-with-knife-kills-owner-during-banned-cockfight/ [14:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wgntv.com | Rooster with knife kills owner during banned cockfight | WGN-TV [14:31] techrights-bot Pocock on Removing Cognitive Bias Around Consent http://techrights.org/2021/03/02/cognitive-bias/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/03/02/cognitive-bias/ [14:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Pocock on Removing Cognitive Bias Around Consent | Techrights [14:36] techrights-bot "Some people are spreading rumours that Bruce Lehrmann has fled overseas." https://kangaroocourtofaustralia.com/2021/02/27/were-young-women-sexually-assaulted-when-bruce-lehrmann-the-alleged-parliament-house-rapist-was-an-official-at-the-anu-un-conference/ [14:36] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-kangaroocourtofaustralia.com | Were young women sexually assaulted when Bruce Lehrmann, the alleged parliament house rapist, was an official at the ANU UN conference? Kangaroo Court of Australia [14:39] techrights-bot #EQE again, but #IPKat actively censored reports about the real EQE scandal, which involved #EPO #corruption http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/03/a-chaotic-start-to-eeqes.html see http://techrights.org/2020/03/16/doyen-for-a-yen/ [14:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ipkitten.blogspot.com | A chaotic start to the eEQEs - The IPKat [14:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Series Index: Doyen for a Yen | Techrights [14:41] schestowitz__ [14:07] hi fsf folks, any plans to maybe add fsf/site presence in gemini:// ? [14:41] schestowitz__ [14:10] --> johnh (~johnh@fsf/staff/johnh) has joined this channel. [14:41] schestowitz__ [14:11] that would be great, imho [14:41] schestowitz__ [14:23] schestowitz__, hi, feel free to write to sysadmin@gnu.org with your suggestion [14:41] schestowitz__ [14:40] thanks [14:41] schestowitz__ [14:40] cheers [14:45] techrights-bot Add these 4 tools to your Linux container toolbox | Enable Sysadmin https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/new-linux-container-tools #RedHat #IBM #GNU #Linux [14:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.redhat.com | Add these 4 tools to your Linux container toolbox | Enable Sysadmin [14:47] techrights-bot #gnu #linux distro #Bluestar 5.11.2 is out. A thousand downloads per day. https://sourceforge.net/projects/bluestarlinux/ [14:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-BluestarLinux download | SourceForge.net [14:54] *koo5 (~koo5@37-48-28-155.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) has joined #techrights [14:55] *psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrights [14:55] techrights-bot "This blog remains, as far as I am aware, blocked in Russia. (Am receiving messages it is not currently blocked, at least on several major ISPs, which is good news)." https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/03/mote-in-your-own-eye/ [14:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.craigmurray.org.uk | Mote in Your Own Eye - Craig Murray [14:55] schestowitz__ XRevan86: ^^ [14:56] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz__: No jobs growth, and the big companies are shedding jobs, as they have been. [14:56] schestowitz__ I've just been to town [14:56] schestowitz__ iirc, first since since january (!!) [14:56] DaemonFC[m] It was obvious that a merger between Sprint and T-Mobile would lead to workforce redundancies and less competition. [14:56] schestowitz__ it's not too bad out there [14:56] DaemonFC[m] Meaning fewer jobs and higher prices. [14:56] XRevan86 https://isitblockedinrussia.com/?host=craigmurray.org.uk [14:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-isitblockedinrussia.com | Is It Blocked In Russia? [14:56] schestowitz__ yeah, good for those who hoard all the capital [14:57] DaemonFC[m] T-Mobile layoffs are going to keep going. [14:57] schestowitz__ XRevan86: very weird [14:57] schestowitz__ it's not a blog hostile to russia [14:57] DaemonFC[m] They already have a network. They don't need all of that legacy Sprint CDMA crap, so they'll shut it down as soon as possible. [14:57] schestowitz__ in fact, it often debunds some russophobic tropes [14:57] XRevan86 schestowitz__: Looks like another Cloudflare block. [14:57] DaemonFC[m] Then here come another river full of e-waste a couple years before the hardware itself would go bad. [14:57] schestowitz__ XRevan86: lol [14:57] schestowitz__ good [14:58] schestowitz__ whatever kills off those clownflares [14:58] schestowitz__ it needs to go away [14:58] schestowitz__ we need to tackle ddos at the root [14:58] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz__: I just did a favor for Mandy's friend at work. [14:58] schestowitz__ not outsourcing to a malicious for-profit company [14:58] DaemonFC[m] I was going to Gurnee for something anyway, and she needed her iPhone 6S Plus repaired, so I just had the Batteries Plus shop swap it out for her. [14:58] schestowitz__ ewaste means discarded 'old' stuff [14:58] DaemonFC[m] $60 vs a new phone, and it's still in good shape. [14:59] schestowitz__ if you don't use bloat and crapware, you can buy it cheap and use it [14:59] DaemonFC[m] They want to sell you a new phone every year or two. There's no reason that thing won't work for another couple of years on a new battery. [14:59] schestowitz__ notice how FAST those things love value [14:59] schestowitz__ a few years go by and ban. quarter price [14:59] schestowitz__ even if in mint condition ● Mar 02 [15:00] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, there's little functional difference between an iPhone SE and an iPhone 11. [15:00] DaemonFC[m] Same CPU. [15:00] DaemonFC[m] Apple is letting the customer come in and say the most they're willing to spend. Then, what do you know? Here's one at that price. [15:00] schestowitz__ "WHAT WILL MY FRIENDS THINK !!!! My phone is over two years old!! >2 = I'm a worthless peasant" [15:00] DaemonFC[m] Price discrimination. [15:01] schestowitz__ Colgate also [15:01] XRevan86 It's not a direct attack on Cloudflare, but apparently their IPs still get routinely blocked as the front IP addresses of stuff. [15:01] schestowitz__ upselling [15:01] schestowitz__ you could get the toothpaste cheaper in areas that target low-salary people [15:01] DaemonFC[m] It's putting like 5 things that are all almost the same at 5 different prices, and then letting the customer reveal their price sensitivity. [15:01] schestowitz__ elsewhere the same thing with better packaging costs up to 5 times more [15:01] DaemonFC[m] And paying the most they'll pay, every time. [15:02] schestowitz__ yes, old tactic [15:02] DaemonFC[m] It's called "capturing the consumer surplus". [15:02] schestowitz__ I saw this when working at a store [15:02] schestowitz__ I'd usually point immediately to the cheap [15:02] schestowitz__ I'm with the customer, not the store [15:02] DaemonFC[m] If they only made the $400 model, everyone would buy that, nobody would "complain" that it's "what you give your kids when you're worried they might break it and don't want to be out a lot of money". [15:03] DaemonFC[m] "I'm important. I need the $1,649 model!" [15:04] DaemonFC[m] If it's what you give someone when you are averse to losing money, then why wouldn't you give it to yourself? [15:04] DaemonFC[m] That way when it breaks or becomes obsolete, you limit the financial damage. :) [15:04] schestowitz__ why do these cost so much? [15:04] schestowitz__ you can get quad-core cortex for a dozen dollars [15:04] schestowitz__ toss a screen on it [15:04] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz__: Yes, and Aldi works on the model where they only have one "model" of canned kidney beans, and it's the cheapest can of beans they can possibly sell. [15:04] schestowitz__ add some digitiser etc. [15:05] schestowitz__ no 'phone', even powerful one, should cost more than $50 [15:05] schestowitz__ even if "made in USA" [15:05] DaemonFC[m] It's 50 cents for that can of beans. Walmart sells kidney beans. 56 cents for the store brand to $1.48 for the national brand. [15:05] schestowitz__ the whole thing is a scam... and patents [15:05] schestowitz__ http://techrights.org/2016/01/24/phones-patent-thicket/ [15:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Software Patents and Patent Taxes: How 100 Grams Worth of Components Can Cost as Much as $1000 | Techrights [15:05] DaemonFC[m] They're all the same thing, but by carrying so many brands, it complicates the operation and drags up prices, including the store's. [15:06] DaemonFC[m] You scale that up and you spend an extra $10 or so at Walmart per $100. [15:06] DaemonFC[m] Yes, like "Maddox", the blogger pointed out many years ago. [15:06] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | 2016 January 24 | Techrights [15:06] DaemonFC[m] When he wanted to mention how ridiculous the iPod was. [15:07] schestowitz__ I'd just bought about 15kg of food [15:07] schestowitz__ some half price [15:07] DaemonFC[m] He said it's literally an MP3 codec, an LCD screen, a click wheel, and a couple MB of RAM. [15:07] schestowitz__ some 90% off [15:07] DaemonFC[m] You could buy one anywhere for 10-20% of the price of Apple's. [15:07] schestowitz__ if you want, you can easy 'raid' the discounts [15:07] schestowitz__ right time, right sequences [15:07] schestowitz__ 36 cross buns, 2 pennies each [15:08] schestowitz__ or 10p loaves of bread [15:08] DaemonFC[m] I always thought it was funny that Apple was selling a glorified MP3 codec on a plastic clickwheel for $400-500. [15:08] schestowitz__ those can go right in the freezer [15:08] DaemonFC[m] That anyone would be that stupid. [15:08] schestowitz__ now, in terms of tech stuff [15:08] schestowitz__ you can get second hand [15:08] schestowitz__ anything from half to quarter price [15:08] schestowitz__ and in good condition, not even old or damaged [15:08] schestowitz__ it's all about ego [15:09] DaemonFC[m] Mandy is like level 5 susceptible to ads. [15:09] schestowitz__ some are too "proud" (aka "class-conscious") to reject all the SMART(TM) stuff and actually become smart out there [15:09] DaemonFC[m] He has no sales resistance at all, so the glorified MP3 codec with a plastic clickwheel would be another argument if those were still the gadget. [15:10] schestowitz__ mp3 players cost about 10 pounds [15:10] schestowitz__ should not be over 20 dollars (US) [15:10] schestowitz__ it's a flash disk [15:10] schestowitz__ and small microchip [15:10] schestowitz__ headphone jack [15:10] schestowitz__ the components are just a few bucks [15:10] DaemonFC[m] I wish Linux better supported WavPack. [15:10] schestowitz__ nothing fancy but decent battery life unless you want fancy and bright displays [15:10] DaemonFC[m] Modern CPUs are all fast enough to use it on the highest compression setting, which was just ridiculous in 1999, but it's very much usable now. [15:11] techrights-bot NEWS #MintPressNews British American Tobacco's Illegal Smokes Burn Through Mali's Quest for Self-Determination https://www.mintpressnews.com/british-american-tobaccos-illegal-smokes-mali/275780/ [15:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mintpressnews.com | British American Tobacco's Illegal Smokes Burn Through Mali's Quest for Self-Determination [15:11] DaemonFC[m] It's unlike FLAC in that the compression setting has effect on decode performance, but that this is also below the idle speed of an ARM little core. [15:11] DaemonFC[m] So it's not like it matters. [15:12] DaemonFC[m] Decisions on what to standardize have unfortunately been made on hardware that was available more than 20 years ago, which probably doesn't even work anymore anyway. [15:13] schestowitz__ [20:14] #rustlang : we support #hardware #monopolies and not just #microsoft #monopoly https://lwn.net/Articles/847736/rss [15:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Woodruff: Weird architectures weren't supported to begin with [LWN.net] [15:13] schestowitz__ "Weird' hardware [15:13] psydroid I had an MP3 player something like 15 years ago, but my aunt's identical model broke, so I gave mine to her [15:14] schestowitz__ I bought one for my mom [15:14] schestowitz__ eventually I took it cause she did not use it [15:14] schestowitz__ and it ws identical to mine [15:14] schestowitz__ which was no longer working too well [15:14] schestowitz__ (as I had actually used it) [15:15] schestowitz__ duplicate buys also help explain how to use those things [15:15] psydroid yeah [15:16] schestowitz__ one of them still works, I think [15:16] schestowitz__ but I reflashed it for general storage [15:17] schestowitz__ can't recall why [15:17] schestowitz__ maybe to install debian on some old server without any drives, just usb ports [15:18] schestowitz__ those mp3 players cost just under 20 pounds anyway [15:18] schestowitz__ almost the same cost of the standalone storage [15:18] schestowitz__ archos iirc [15:18] schestowitz__ is archos still around? [15:18] schestowitz__ I had a tablet of theirs [15:18] schestowitz__ it did not last very long [15:19] schestowitz__ old android, maybe 2.x [15:21] techrights-bot Help #fsf (and #gnu too, perhaps) expand to #geminispace now that the #www is so malicious. I've done my bit, others can contact sysadmin@gnu.org and explain how/why a move to Gemini would help #freesw [15:23] schestowitz__ snoozing, bbl [15:25] DaemonFC[m] archos? [15:25] DaemonFC[m] I haven't seen anything lately. Those Android Honeycomb tablets were pretty bad. [15:29] psydroid we have Pinetab now, hopefully they will create a new model based on RK3566 or RK3568 [15:32] DaemonFC[m] In some cases, it's possible to replace the battery in an MP3 player if that's all that's wrong with it. [15:32] DaemonFC[m] Sandisk doesn't make any good MP3 players anymore. [15:34] DaemonFC[m] It may be the J&J vaccine that I get each year if COVID becomes a recurring problem. [15:34] DaemonFC[m] I can't imagine carving out two vaccine appointments each year over something that will never end. ● Mar 02 [16:00] schestowitz__ my dad said to me that the J&J one he would be willing to explore [16:00] schestowitz__ and would phone their representatives [16:01] schestowitz__ as it's hard to get access to those doses [16:01] schestowitz__ as for me, I'm waiting to see what's what [16:01] schestowitz__ also, there are many repelling factors [16:01] schestowitz__ and many in Russia and China cannot refuse anything but what the regime prescribes [16:01] schestowitz__ but again [16:01] schestowitz__ let's not talk vaccines [16:02] schestowitz__ I got enough of that crap at work... in a channel where all the colleague brags about when BRAND(TM) of vaccine they got [16:02] schestowitz__ it's not something that goes in the purse [16:02] schestowitz__ it goes in the body, sometimes several times over [16:03] schestowitz__ I used to make fan of "antivaxxer" until corporate media started using this label against everyone, or the majority of the population [16:03] schestowitz__ *make fun [16:03] schestowitz__ [10:11] Overuse of labels such as "conspiracy theorist" will render such labels rather meaningless. Like partisan politics where each voter is either "Marxist" or "Nazi"... like brand dilution in #trademark sense/realm... or Godwin's Law [16:04] schestowitz__ All those "bill says" pieces put people off [16:04] schestowitz__ he's exploiting this thing for PR [16:05] schestowitz__ while perfectly aware he emboldens the belied that scam artists and profiteers are the ones pushing vaccines, not experts [16:05] schestowitz__ *belief [16:06] schestowitz__ psydroid: pinetab is also kde afaik [16:06] schestowitz__ plasma mobile or whatnot [16:06] schestowitz__ android rules now [16:07] schestowitz__ people look for alternatives, ones that still get the basics done and don't harvest data [16:07] schestowitz__ if gnome is ibm-ish, privacy might not be priority [16:07] schestowitz__ kde is mostly .de and in germany they take privacy seriously and no single company has much leverage over kde [16:08] *kingoffrance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:12] techrights-bot Overusing the term "antivaxxers" when maybe half the population is sceptical of jabs developed in just a few months, barely tested (approval expedited due to emergency) https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/03/01/covid-19-vaccines-prion-disease-and-alzheimers-another-old-antivax-lie-is-new-again/ [16:12] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-respectfulinsolence.com | COVID-19 vaccines, prion disease, and Alzheimer's: Another old antivax lie is new again - RESPECTFUL INSOLENCE [16:14] psydroid schestowitz__: I haven't used GNOME in a decade, the only reason why I ever used it on Ubuntu 10.4 was because KDE was in state of disarray with the transition from 3.5 to 4.x [16:14] psydroid I've always used KDE [16:14] schestowitz__ I remember that [16:14] schestowitz__ I used KDE3 for quite some time [16:15] schestowitz__ GNOME3 is unimpressive [16:15] schestowitz__ I use it right now [16:15] schestowitz__ xfce4 is better in several regards [16:15] schestowitz__ aside from system usag [16:16] psydroid I use XFCE4 too on some machines [16:17] techrights-bot #patents #monopoly #classwar #accessToMedicine https://www.propublica.org/article/how-inequity-gets-built-into-americas-vaccination-system #twitter BANS people for taking about these issues!! http://techrights.org/2021/02/05/twitter-censorship-bingo/ [16:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.propublica.org | How Inequity Gets Built Into Americas Vaccination System ProPublica [16:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Twitter Has Just Suspended the President of FFII for Naming Bill Gates Patent Profiteering and Factual Information About Twitter Censorship (Updated) | Techrights [16:17] schestowitz__ psydroid: I explored almost all the features of it this year, one by one [16:17] schestowitz__ some are CLI only [16:17] schestowitz__ it's a lot more powerful than I was led to think, even just from GUI controls [16:17] schestowitz__ GNOME moved into this pseudo-modularity thing [16:18] schestowitz__ like Mozilla FIrefox did [16:18] schestowitz__ until they killed off xul [16:18] schestowitz__ with some odd exeptions [16:18] schestowitz__ and then thunderbird and firefox lacked any real edge [16:18] schestowitz__ just "another browser"... what does it do? It surfs the web [16:18] schestowitz__ thunderbird? opens mail [16:19] schestowitz__ no more tabbing, browsing, versatile rss feed stuff in thunderbird [16:19] schestowitz__ users are "too dumb" [16:19] schestowitz__ let's remove the "bad" stuff [16:19] schestowitz__ "we know better" [16:19] schestowitz__ that's gnome3 [16:19] schestowitz__ gnome 2 got Torvalds ranting as well [16:19] schestowitz__ they said they'd try to be easier for users [16:19] schestowitz__ and yet they never really attracted new users [16:19] schestowitz__ they drove away some existing users [16:20] schestowitz__ geeks who made it [16:20] schestowitz__ and android took over [16:20] schestowitz__ for other reasons though [16:20] schestowitz__ now they push wayland [16:20] schestowitz__ with barely any advantages. "it's new, try this!: [16:20] schestowitz__ then they force it on you [16:20] schestowitz__ like the did pulseaudio [16:21] schestowitz__ until developers stop supporting anything but this IBM stack [16:22] techrights-bot "Having helped a number of groups in the Balkans, Ive visited Tirana quite a few times and walked past the home of former dictator Enver Hoxha" http://techrights.org/2021/03/02/cognitive-bias/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/03/02/cognitive-bias/ | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/03/02/#latest [16:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Pocock on Removing Cognitive Bias Around Consent | Techrights [16:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts [16:23] techrights-bot "The '154 patent generally relates to systems and methods for monetizing the reproduction of digital media content" = #swpats = #fakepatents https://www.unifiedpatents.com/insights/2021/3/2/2000-for-media-chain-prior-art #uspto #ptab [16:23] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.unifiedpatents.com | $2,000 for Media Chain prior art Unified Patents [16:23] psydroid or until developers stop supporting even the IBM stack [16:24] psydroid then all their plans will prove to have been futile all along [16:24] schestowitz__ bbl [16:24] schestowitz__ need to record something [16:36] *x_ (~x@2601:681:8200:b890::47f8) has joined #techrights [16:37] *x_ is now known as kingoffrance [16:41] *aindilis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [16:55] DaemonFC[m] It's just utter insanity what's going on with IBM. They've managed to take over Linux and turn it into a proprietary UNIX system, de facto, even though almost everything is "open source". [16:56] DaemonFC[m] It's been allowed to happen because bribes and "developers". [16:57] DaemonFC[m] So I wouldn't call the "ecosystem" a meritocracy anymore, because there's nobody saying hell no to bad ideas that one entity has that suits their business purposes and detracts from the general quality of the software. [16:57] DaemonFC[m] There used to be a process where "No." from Linus means back to the drawing board. Consensus. Some final version of it that's better than it would have been lands eventually. [16:58] DaemonFC[m] They've cut him out of the loop so that they can jam in a bunch of low quality stuff that ticks off a feature. [16:59] DaemonFC[m] Their latest "feature" is a compressed RAM pool and a userspace service that panics and starts killing things to save the system when some other stuff uses too much RAM. [16:59] MinceR also, there was nobody else that cared [16:59] DaemonFC[m] Because profiling and fixing leaks and inefficiencies is harder than tricks. ● Mar 02 [17:00] MinceR his second-in-command was already like "hell yeah, let's just shovel dbus into the kernel without thinking!" [17:00] DaemonFC[m] I've laughed before at how much work people put into not doing work. [17:00] MinceR Linux was already doomed because of that [17:00] Old_Man Is Aaron Siego still involved in KDE in any strategic capacity? [17:00] DaemonFC[m] Instead of fixing the mess, they just hack something together to buy them space to build a bigger mess. [17:00] Old_Man Man, I remember when he gave the KDE users the big middle finger in the KDE 3->4 transition. [17:01] DaemonFC[m] It would be nice if compressed RAM and the systemd service to manage out of memory conditions added something, but they're just a license to spend the savings on more bloat. [17:01] *genr8 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [17:01] Old_Man That little desktop widget thingy, the "cashew," was a hill on which he chose to die, laying down hard-and-fast law that THE CASHEW CANNOT AND WILL NOT BE TURNED OFF. [17:02] DaemonFC[m] There was a widget that hid the cashew. [17:02] Old_Man Then on that linux theming website, there was a third-part extension called "we hate the cashew," which a number of users installed to work around Aaron Siego's dictatorship... [17:02] Old_Man And the rest of us just quit using it. [17:02] Old_Man KDE, that is. [17:02] *genr8 (~genr8_@unaffiliated/genbtc) has joined #techrights [17:02] Old_Man I've been on XFCE ever since. [17:03] DaemonFC[m] I think all it did was make it unviewable and expose the desktop underneath it. Like it was still there, but not there. [17:03] DaemonFC[m] It was "I hate the cashew.". [17:03] DaemonFC[m] I remember because it was one of the few widgets I ever installed. [17:03] Old_Man Well a year or two ago, I tossed KDE on a VM briefly, and noticed that it *can* be turned off now. :) [17:03] DaemonFC[m] They were copying Vista, and Vista had widgets. [17:03] DaemonFC[m] So we have to go off and have widgets too instead of bug fixes and important things. [17:03] Old_Man So I wonder if Aaron Siego had to die to make that feature possible, or if he finally just capitulated and quit being a dick. [17:04] MinceR i stopped using kde when i had to set up plasma for the third time because it forgot its own settings over and over [17:04] DaemonFC[m] The sad part about desktop widgets was it was just Active Desktop thinking all over again. [17:04] DaemonFC[m] And it didn't even survive into Windows 7. [17:04] MinceR i suspect the actual purpose of active desktop was just an excuse to keep IE loaded all the time [17:04] DaemonFC[m] Active Desktop was just something to point to in court to say the desktop needed IE. [17:04] MinceR it's microshit's method of ricing application startup times [17:05] DaemonFC[m] Because now it did. [17:05] MinceR that too [17:05] MinceR it's the same mentality as the systemd/poettering/gnome/proprietarydesktop one [17:05] DaemonFC[m] Yes, IE components were always loaded, so while Netscape went grinding on your drive and took 3 seconds, IE loaded instantly. [17:05] MinceR "you're goint got run it and use it MY way, regardless of whether you want it!" [17:05] MinceR s/nt/ng/ [17:05] DaemonFC[m] If you used ROM II SE to remove IE and crap, the Windows shell (from 95b) would start up instead. [17:06] DaemonFC[m] You would notice a savings of 11 MB of RAM and 4% of the system resources stack on system start. [17:06] Old_Man MinceR, exactly... and meanwhile XFCE keeps showing that it's downright easy to keep things customizable and lookin' good. [17:07] DaemonFC[m] In those days, 11 MB could be anywhere between 10 and 33% of the amount of RAM in the entire computer. [17:07] MinceR i got tired of xfce because every time i have to set the panel up again, i have to kill xfconfd, edit the panel configuration xml and start it again [17:07] MinceR because if i just tell it to remove the panel i don't need, it crashes and restarts with that panel still there [17:08] Old_Man Huh, that sounds like a bug in your distro's version... never saw that. [17:10] DaemonFC[m] Microsoft made it so whether you wanted to use IE or not was irrelevant. [17:10] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/731853.jpg [17:10] DaemonFC[m] It was there, it was consuming resources. If you used anything else, it would be in addition to IE being loaded too. [17:11] DaemonFC[m] Then, from a different angle, they came and introduced bugs in IE's rendering engine and made it easy for people to corrupt a website in ways that made Netscape give up and refuse to render it, but IE corrected it in the background and it looked okay. [17:12] DaemonFC[m] Netscape was extremely strict in requiring tags to be closed. [17:12] DaemonFC[m] So IE came along and would close dangling tags if it found them and then render the page. [17:12] DaemonFC[m] So Netscape had to implement this too. [17:12] DaemonFC[m] And now here we are with dangling tags. Even schestowitz. [17:14] schestowitz__ [16:55] It's just utter insanity what's going on with IBM. They've managed to take over Linux and turn it into a proprietary UNIX system, de facto, even though almost everything is "open source". [17:14] schestowitz__ there is backlash though [17:14] schestowitz__ and they feel it [17:14] schestowitz__ it exceeds their expectations [17:14] schestowitz__ see comments in http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148134 [17:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Extending no-cost Red Hat Enterprise Linux to open source organizations | Tux Machines [17:14] DaemonFC[m] I went back on my website and loaded it in every browser I could get my hands on to make sure it still looked fine even in versions that were obsolete for a few years at that point. [17:14] schestowitz__ [17:00] Is Aaron Siego still involved in KDE in any strategic capacity? [17:14] schestowitz__ last I heard he was in switzerland doing email and comms stuff [17:15] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:15] DaemonFC[m] It's a lot of effort to test for weird configurations, but really it was because everyone but Opera made a browser that really sucked at that point. [17:15] Old_Man I think this Gemini space is a good way to clean up a lot of the mess the web has become. [17:15] Old_Man As soon as it's as easy to write a Gemini robot as it is to write an interactive IRC robot, it'll be gret. [17:15] Old_Man great. [17:16] DaemonFC[m] Netscape's legacy would have lived on in IE had they just sold the browser to Microsoft. [17:16] schestowitz__ Old_Man: we made lots of gemini software [17:16] DaemonFC[m] They were approached with a cash offer and a threat. [17:16] schestowitz__ I am trying to get gnu and FSF to port their sites to it [17:16] schestowitz__ they said they'd look into it, sort of [17:16] schestowitz__ they= not the senior people [17:17] DaemonFC[m] This was Peak Bill Gates. [17:17] schestowitz__ we had loads of IRC bots over the years [17:17] Old_Man schestowitz__, is it possible to make username/password-protected services for gemini with some effort less than, say, running Django? :D [17:17] DaemonFC[m] They didn't take the carrot so they got the stick. [17:17] schestowitz__ because social control media keeps changing and breaking [17:17] schestowitz__ google apis also [17:17] schestowitz__ the bot used to have a !google function [17:17] schestowitz__ then google broke it [17:17] schestowitz__ Old_Man: with cgi maybe [17:17] schestowitz__ some server lacks support for it [17:17] DaemonFC[m] Gemini does sound like it fixes up the glaring issues from gopher and then makes it deliberately impossible to extend. [17:18] schestowitz__ cookies are not there [17:18] schestowitz__ it uses other methods for sessions [17:18] DaemonFC[m] It just kind of does what it does and then gets the hell out, and that's nice in fact. [17:18] Old_Man Yep, sessions are way better in gemini [17:18] *inky (~inky@141.136.76.44) has joined #techrights [17:18] schestowitz__ but each request is a new session, maybe you can chain them [17:18] schestowitz__ all this is still early stages, sort of open ended, standardisation will happen "soon" [17:18] DaemonFC[m] There's no technical reason why "web" browsers can't implement Gemini. Maybe Brave will. [17:19] schestowitz__ DaemonFC[m]: yes, it discourages extensions [17:19] schestowitz__ to avid client/browser monopolies [17:19] schestowitz__ or monocultures [17:19] schestowitz__ it's better ttha gopher [17:19] schestowitz__ tls, utf-8/unicode.. [17:19] DaemonFC[m] The web finally gets so bad that you have to make one that implements important features and is frozen in place. [17:19] schestowitz__ DaemonFC[m]: yes, I was expecting brave to [17:19] schestowitz__ see what brendan eich wrote when mozilla canned gopher [17:19] schestowitz__ lots of comments from him in: [17:20] schestowitz__ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=388195 [17:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bugzilla.mozilla.org | 388195 - Remove gopher protocol support for Firefox [17:20] schestowitz__ bbl [17:20] schestowitz__ got a video to publish now [17:20] schestowitz__ brave has ipfs support btw [17:21] schestowitz__ ipfs is more complicated to support [17:21] schestowitz__ as you need to enlist self to a swarm [17:21] schestowitz__ gemini clients can be implemented in like 50 lines of code [17:21] schestowitz__ I did ddos protection tool for it in about 40 lines of code [17:23] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/02/us/dr-seuss-books-cease-publication-trnd/index.html [17:23] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-6 Dr. Seuss books won't be published anymore because they portray people in 'hurtful and wrong' ways - CNN [17:23] DaemonFC[m] Now Cancel Culture gets to Dr. Seuss. [17:23] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:25] MinceR "Smoking is not good for you, and it's been deemed that anything not good for you is bad; hence, illegal." [17:25] *inky (~inky@141.136.76.44) has joined #techrights [17:28] techrights-bot GatoKeeper/ #IPKat ( #AstraZeneca ) Still Suppressing and Censoring the Public Views or Internal EPO Talks About #EPO #Corruption http://techrights.org/2021/03/02/gatokeeper/ #Techrights gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/03/02/gatokeeper/ [17:28] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | GatoKeeper/IP Kat (AstraZeneca) Still Suppressing and Censoring the Public Views or Internal EPO Talks About EPO Corruption | Techrights [17:30] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:30] DaemonFC[m] The patriarchal state. [17:30] DaemonFC[m] Pretty much only an idiot would smoke. [17:30] DaemonFC[m] But banning things causes people to get them anyway somehow. [17:32] DaemonFC[m] Even the most well intentioned law will backfire somehow when it gets between a market for something and people who want it. [17:33] DaemonFC[m] The state pretty much gave up trying to ban cigarettes and makes them expensive as fuck and has a quitters line and forces insurance to pay for smoking cessation therapy and nicotine patches and stuff. [17:33] DaemonFC[m] Because all you can really do is try to encourage people to give up. Saying "You can't buy that." just leads to black markets. [17:33] *galactic has quit (Quit: Leaving) [17:33] DaemonFC[m] It shows that the government isn't completely stupid. [17:33] DaemonFC[m] It takes them decades to learn this though. [17:34] DaemonFC[m] And we have other bans that they pretend work. [17:34] MinceR they've failed to learn this for centuries [17:34] MinceR consider the "war on drugs" that's still ongoing [17:34] DaemonFC[m] It's only now starting to ease up. [17:34] DaemonFC[m] Marijuana is totally legal in like 20-ish states now. Something like that. [17:34] DaemonFC[m] Over 30 as medicinal. [17:35] DaemonFC[m] Oregon just passed decriminalization of small amounts of any drug. [17:35] DaemonFC[m] It took a very long time for states to go "You know, all this ever did was cost us money.". [17:35] techrights-bot Sellout sites that USED to cover "LINUX" nowadays publish SPAM, for loose change... what's your target audience? #microsoft employees? GNU/Linux users? Can't do both. No wonder those sites are dying. [17:36] Old_Man Small towns certainly do enjoy stealing money from the motorists they pull over, as "civil asset forfeiture" though. [17:36] DaemonFC[m] Copyright courts essentially try to ban "pirates", and get more pirates. [17:36] DaemonFC[m] Oh look, they all have an IP address in the Netherlands now. [17:36] DaemonFC[m] How does that work? [17:38] techrights-bot Silly sites. Thinking you can promote #microsoft lies and still keep an audience of people who actually use #gnu #linux is a fantasy. Like thinking you can praise both #biden and #trump ... those people (the people who vote for either candidate) hate the others' guts. [17:40] techrights-bot Lots of #ibm #redhat puff pieces from this site. Is IBM a paying client (sponsor of the reports about itself)? https://www.itprotoday.com/hybrid-cloud/red-hats-2021-open-source-survey-whos-using-software-and-why [17:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.itprotoday.com | Red Hat's 2021 Open Source Survey: Who's Using the Software and Why | IT Pro [17:41] techrights-bot What kind of 'news' paper is the Washington Post? A paper that cannot criticise its owner's company. #corruptMedia [17:43] techrights-bot The suppression of comments critical of the #EPO s administration (especially #corruption scandals surrounding #AntnioCampinos and #BenotBattistelli ) is a real problem http://techrights.org/2021/03/02/gatokeeper/ #Techrights gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/03/02/gatokeeper/ [17:43] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | GatoKeeper/IP Kat (AstraZeneca) Still Suppressing and Censoring the Public Views or Internal EPO Talks About EPO Corruption | Techrights [17:46] *inky (~inky@141.136.76.44) has joined #techrights [17:46] techrights-bot Highly malicious #patentTroll #Sisvel making the usual mess in #germany https://www.juve-patent.com/news-and-stories/cases/sisvel-vs-haier-federal-court-raises-bar-for-implementers-in-sep-disputes/ #de ruined by parasitic entities [17:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.juve-patent.com | Sisvel vs. Haier: Federal court raises bar for implementers in SEP disputes - JUVE Patent [17:47] techrights-bot "Rains US Patent 9,805,349 covers a method for delivering apps via a computer network using a webstore and server authentication" = #swpats = #fakepatents https://patentlyo.com/patent/2021/03/claim-construction-module.html [17:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentlyo.com | In Claim Construction: Module Means Means | Patently-O [17:56] techrights-bot #LibreOffice 7.1 Finally Available to Install via #Ubuntu PPA http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148323#comment-28476 [17:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | LibreOffice Documentation and Guides | Tux Machines [17:57] XRevan86 https://youtu.be/u7LOljirF6g [17:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-: The more things change, the more they stay the same - YouTube [17:59] techrights-bot #KDE Plasma 5.21.2 Update Re-Enabled Key Repeat by Default, Improves System Settings http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148328 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [17:59] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | KDE Plasma 5.21.2 Update Re-Enabled Key Repeat by Default, Improves System Settings | Tux Machines ● Mar 02 [18:00] techrights-bot My First Week of #Librem5 Convergence http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148327 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:00] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | My First Week of Librem 5 Convergence | Tux Machines [18:00] techrights-bot #KDE Plasma 5.21.2, Bugfix Release for March http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148326 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:00] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | KDE Plasma 5.21.2, Bugfix Release for March | Tux Machines [18:02] techrights-bot The #corruptMedia now erupts into another "bill gates says" frenzy. The expert and guru uses this and that. Who cares? Who is he? When will he go back to college and actually graduate? When will he be arrested for decades of crimes? Anything to spam the media with fluff... [18:05] techrights-bot Updated #Portal2 Vulkan Rendering Code Yielding Great #Radeon Results http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148329 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Updated Portal 2 Vulkan Rendering Code Yielding Great Radeon Results | Tux Machines [18:07] techrights-bot WTH?!?! https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/02/us/dr-seuss-books-cease-publication-trnd/index.html [18:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-6 Dr. Seuss books won't be published anymore because they portray people in 'hurtful and wrong' ways - CNN [18:10] techrights-bot "The #Ubuntu in the wild blog post ropes in the latest highlights about Ubuntu and Canonical around the world on a bi-weekly basis. It is a summary of all the things that made us feel proud to be part of this journey. What do you think of it?" https://ubuntu.com//blog/ubuntu-in-the-wild-03 [18:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Ubuntu in the wild 2nd of March 2021 | Ubuntu [18:12] techrights-bot Why is the kind of crap that assures I'll never touch #ubuntu again https://ubuntu.com//blog/canonical-completes-azure-arc-kubernetes-validation-program #microsoft #surveillance #crime #canonical [18:12] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Canonical completes Azure Arc Validation Program, helps increase user confidence in Arc enabled production Kubernetes | Ubuntu [18:12] mjg59 The publisher of some books that feature racist stereotypes has voluntarily chosen to stop publishing them, and that warrants a "WTH?!?!"? [18:14] techrights-bot #Canonical has been boosting #Microsoft for years and it closed bug #1 which basically means they don't wish to actually replace #Windows also see http://techrights.org/2021/02/15/cancel-canonical/ [18:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Cancel Canonical? | Techrights [18:15] techrights-bot #canonical : #ubuntu is now #debian because we rebranded it. Also: Ubuntu isn't Windows but now a component of Windows, WSL. Which nobody uses... http://techrights.org/2020/05/06/wsl2-usage-numbers/ [18:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Only About 150,000 People Worldwide Use WSL2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux) | Techrights [18:18] Old_Man mjg59: if they stop anyone else from publishing it as well (by appealing to a government-granted monopoly, like copyright), then yes, that warrants a "WTH". [18:19] Old_Man Using force (even if it's the force of the government) to silence speech is bad. [18:19] Old_Man As the character from "Game of Thrones" said: "If you tear out a man's tongue, that doesn't mean he is lying. It just means you fear what he might say." [18:20] techrights-bot #IBM Begins Adding #GCC Support For Z Arch14 - Likely IBM z16 - Phoronix https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=IBM-Z-Arch14-GCC #Phoronix #Kernel #Linux [18:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-IBM Begins Adding GCC Support For Z Arch14 - Likely IBM z16 - Phoronix [18:22] techrights-bot "Why would they do that? Now that #Qt Company is no longer putting out LTS releases for open source users, how could anyone base a big project like #KDE on a constantly moving target?" https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1241962-qt-6-1-beta-released-with-porting-more-modules-to-qt6 [18:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Qt 6.1 Beta Released With Porting More Modules To Qt6 - Phoronix Forums [18:22] techrights-bot "I think they will eventually have to bite the bullet and fork Qt for their own sanity. That, or at least keep their own GPL-only patch set for whatever Qt release is chosen to base KDE releases on. Let Qt Company go off and support their proprietary embedded stuff on their own." https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1241962-qt-6-1-beta-released-with-porting-more-modules-to-qt6 [18:23] techrights-bot "Yeah, the question isn't about when we get #KDE 6 but whether #Qt6 will die eventually if no serious maintainer/company forks it. I say, Intel, Google and Canonical should fund this." https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1241962-qt-6-1-beta-released-with-porting-more-modules-to-qt6 [18:24] techrights-bot This is more of a #surveillance industry (spying on people's health, harvesting data and sellint it) than "fitness industry" https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-for-mcus-a-perfect-development-platform-for-the-fitness-industry [18:25] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.qt.io | Qt for MCUs A perfect development platform for the fitness industry [18:25] mjg59 Old_Man: I agree that copyright monopolies are an issue that restricts access to culturally relevant material, but surely nobody should be compelled to continue publishing material they no longer want to publish [18:25] techrights-bot #StarLabs Adds Coreboot Open-Source Firmware Support to Their LabTop Mk IV Linux Laptop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148331 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:25] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Star Labs Adds Coreboot Open-Source Firmware Support to Their LabTop Mk IV Linux Laptop | Tux Machines [18:26] techrights-bot #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148330 #Google#Linux #TuxMachines [18:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines [18:26] Old_Man mjg59, exactly. The ethical thing to do is to drop all claim to ownership. [18:26] techrights-bot #Mozilla Open Policy & Advocacy Blog: Indias new intermediary liability and digital media regulations will harm the open #internet https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-intermediary-liability-and-digital-media-regulations-will-harm-the-open-internet/ [18:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.mozilla.org | Indias new intermediary liability and digital media regulations will harm the open internet - Open Policy & Advocacy [18:27] Old_Man mjg59, if it's public domain, then you're not being an asshole book-banner any more. [18:27] mjg59 Old_Man: I don't disagree, but "WTH?!?!?" about this case implies that it's different to any other case where a publisher stops publishing something (which happens on a daily basis) [18:28] Old_Man And there are many, many of us who think it's unethical for *any* such out-of-print works not to be public domain. [18:28] Old_Man Or even in-print works more than 7 years old. [18:31] MinceR it's unethical for Imaginary Property to exist in the first place [18:35] techrights-bot #IBM : we speak for "Open Source" (also, we're #proprietarySoftware company and we outsource the source code to proprietary GitHub/Microsoft) https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/state-enterprise-open-source-2021-four-results-may-surprise-you [18:35] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.redhat.com | The State of Enterprise Open Source 2021: Four results that may surprise you [18:37] techrights-bot New #GarudaLinux Hawk Eagle Released With LibreWolf Browser https://fossbytes.com/new-garuda-linux-hawk-eagle-released-with-librewolf-browser/ #gnu #linux [18:37] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fossbytes.com | New Garuda Linux "Hawk Eagle" Released With LibreWolf Browser [18:38] techrights-bot #microsoft delivering #malware again, but the media (actually a Microsoft propaganda site) does not mention Microsoft! https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malicious-npm-packages-target-amazon-slack-with-new-dependency-attacks/ similar to: http://techrights.org/2019/07/14/blaming-canonical-for-github/ [18:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bleepingcomputer.com | Malicious NPM packages target Amazon, Slack with new dependency attacks [18:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | GitHub is Microsofts Proprietary Software and Centralised (Monopoly) Platform, But When Canonicals Account There Gets Compromised Suddenly Its Ubuntus Fault? | Techrights [18:40] Old_Man MinceR: I'm friendly to any viewpoint that restricts government-granted monopoly from 0 to 7 years. MAYYYYYBEEEE 14 years if they claim that they want to uphold the other values of the founding of the US as well. But anything more than that is always, always, always, without exception, just rent-seeking behavior. [18:41] techrights-bot Games: Hack Grid, Godot Engine, #StereoKit , #MirroredPawns http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148332 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:41] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Games: Hack Grid, Godot Engine, StereoKit, Mirrored Pawns | Tux Machines [18:41] techrights-bot Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148333 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:41] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux Machines [18:42] techrights-bot #Python Developers Survey 2020 Results | JetBrains: Developer Tools for Professionals and Teams https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/python-developers-survey-2020/ #jetbrains [18:42] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Python Developers Survey 2020 Results | JetBrains: Developer Tools for Professionals and Teams [18:43] techrights-bot This is the sort of #proprietarySoftware that #gnu #linux should sweep users AWAY from https://www.linuxuprising.com/2021/03/official-evernote-application-for-linux.html [18:43] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxuprising.com | Official Evernote Application For Linux Available For Download (Beta) - Linux Uprising Blog [18:45] techrights-bot #Mozilla is moving in a bad direction that serves Windows, not standards of the Web or software freedom https://ahal.ca/blog/2021/mozilla-build-windows-terminal/ [18:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ahal.ca | A Better Terminal for Mozilla Build | Hunting the Shmoo [18:55] techrights-bot NEWS #FortranLang #Fortran #programming Fortran newsletter: March 2021 https://fortran-lang.org/newsletter/2021/03/01/Fortran-Newsletter-March-2021/ [18:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fortran-lang.org | Fortran newsletter: March 2021 - Fortran Programming Language [18:56] techrights-bot #IBM / #RedHat Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148334 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [18:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | IBM/Red Hat Leftovers | Tux Machines [18:56] techrights-bot Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148335 #TuxMachines [18:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Security Leftovers | Tux Machines [18:56] techrights-bot #Mozilla Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148336 #firefox #www #TuxMachines [18:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Mozilla Leftovers | Tux Machines ● Mar 02 [19:11] *vmg32 (~vmg3b@66.115.157.112) has joined #techrights [19:13] techrights-bot Links 2/3/2021: #KDE #Plasma 5.21.2, #Qt 6.1 Beta, Refund of Pre-installed #Windows http://techrights.org/2021/03/02/refund-of-pre-installed-windows/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/03/02/refund-of-pre-installed-windows/ [19:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Links 2/3/2021: KDE Plasma 5.21.2, Qt 6.1 Beta, Refund of Pre-installed Windows | Techrights [19:13] *vmg3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [19:17] techrights-bot #CoreELEC 19.0 Matrix Linux Distro Released for Amlogic Hardware Based on #Kodi 19 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148337 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [19:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | CoreELEC 19.0 Matrix Linux Distro Released for Amlogic Hardware Based on Kodi 19 | Tux Machines [19:17] techrights-bot Events: GNOME, LF, and #LinuxAppSummit (LAS) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148338 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [19:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Events: GNOME, LF, and Linux App Summit (LAS) | Tux Machines [19:17] techrights-bot #Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148339 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [19:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines [19:17] techrights-bot Todays Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148340 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [19:17] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux Machines [19:21] *gry has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - https://znc.in) [19:21] *gry (~test@unaffiliated/gryllida) has joined #techrights [19:44] DaemonFC[m] Some asshole gets offended and instead of telling them they don't have to read it, the publisher makes everyone else suffer. [19:52] mjg59 Or, alternatively, a publisher of books aimed at children decides that publishing books containing racist stereotypes isn't a great thing to do [19:52] DaemonFC[m] Like what happened with GIna Carano. First they destroyed her then they pressure people to fire everyone who has ever dated her. [19:53] DaemonFC[m] Even if she is some psycho bitch, I mean....few people haven't had a lapse in judgment and dated someone they regret wasting a portion of their life on. I mean, they broke up apparently. [19:54] DaemonFC[m] You have to be careful with these Cancel Culture assholes. [19:54] DaemonFC[m] Once they get something they want more. [19:55] DaemonFC[m] It's not enough that they're miserable and useless. I mean, some lady in Michigan tried to get Married With Children canceled and all that happened was they wrote jokes about her into the show. [19:56] DaemonFC[m] Today, people would definitely get it yanked off the air for some reason. Maybe Al's jokes about fat women. [19:57] DaemonFC[m] People should just pirate and share the banned Dr. Seuss books with other parents. [19:58] DaemonFC[m] This is an excellent example of how the left tries to control how we are allowed to think, and why pirates preserve things that book burners try to destroy. [19:58] mjg59 Is choosing to stop publishing a book that contains racist stereotypes better or worse than choosing to stop publishing a book because you have a contractual dispute with the author? [19:58] DaemonFC[m] There's plenty of things that are just a product of their time. [19:59] DaemonFC[m] A whining wuss like you might not get it, but most adults do. [19:59] mjg59 Does something being a product of their time mean that a publisher should be compelled to continue publishing it? [19:59] DaemonFC[m] Everything that stops being published should go into the public domain immediately so that others can. [19:59] mjg59 I agree! ● Mar 02 [20:00] DaemonFC[m] Failing that, people should pirate it to preserve copies. [20:00] mjg59 That doesn't answer my question [20:00] DaemonFC[m] They'll continue asserting copyright on it even though they won't sell it. [20:00] mjg59 They will! [20:00] mjg59 That still doesn't answer my question [20:00] DaemonFC[m] So the Cancel Culture is taking advantage of bad copyright laws to censor. [20:01] mjg59 Voluntarily choosing not to publish something is censorship? [20:01] DaemonFC[m] If you continue to assert the copyright, then yes. [20:01] DaemonFC[m] If they release those particular books into the public domain, then no. [20:02] DaemonFC[m] This is what happens with feminists. It all started with third wave feminism, really. [20:02] mjg59 Ok cool [20:03] DaemonFC[m] These idiots that demand stuff be canceled so that others can't read or watch or listen to it. [20:03] mjg59 So the bad thing here is that they're not releasing it into the public domain, not that they stopped publishing it? [20:03] DaemonFC[m] Same folks who sit around demanding free shit from the state. [20:03] DaemonFC[m] Student Loan Forgiveness so they no longer have to deal with shitty consequences for studying reverse racism and underwater basket weaving. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] You people are the reason Trump ever happened. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] Nobody else wants to sit around and entertain this, so they elected a troll. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] He did plenty of other damage while he was in there trolling. [20:05] DaemonFC[m] I'm certain that when you look at right-wing nationalist movements spreading over other countries, there's similar issues. [20:05] DaemonFC[m] Resentment at having to pay taxes to pay for other people's poor life choices. [20:05] mjg59 I'm still struggling to understand your position here [20:05] DaemonFC[m] Voting for people you think will piss off the idiots all the time. [20:06] mjg59 Publishers stop publishing stuff all the time [20:06] mjg59 While still asserting copyright [20:06] DaemonFC[m] Maybe if we stop talking about all the underwater basket loan forgiveness then other people can afford to eek out a living. Maybe people should have pondered 6% interest and no bankruptcy before they wiggled the pen around. [20:06] DaemonFC[m] Started paying fees for some Communist brainwashing camp they call a university. [20:06] DaemonFC[m] Mystery fees, in many cases. [20:07] DaemonFC[m] "Facility fees. Computer fee. Junk student healthcare that doesn't cover anything but costs $1,500. This is nice....". [20:07] DaemonFC[m] Only an idiot would sign those forms and then pay that to get something worthless. [20:07] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, copyright is just terrible. [20:08] DaemonFC[m] In many ways. It can suppress ideas, which is what we're talking about. [20:08] DaemonFC[m] If you can stop people from thinking about things, they're easier to manipulate. [20:08] DaemonFC[m] But crooked college professors use it too, along with DRM. [20:08] mjg59 Is choosing to stop publishing a book that contains racist stereotypes better or worse than choosing to stop publishing a book because you have a contractual dispute with the author? [20:09] DaemonFC[m] Oh here, you need this book, and it's my book, and I changed it just enough that if you find a used copy you'll get some answers wrong, and don't bother looking for a used copy because DRM. [20:09] DaemonFC[m] That's a $150 book btw. [20:09] DaemonFC[m] Don't worry. 6% interest. Just roll it into the loan. That's all of 4 years from now! [20:10] DaemonFC[m] Besides, with $400 facility fees, and $10,000 tuition, it's a minor issue at best. [20:10] mjg59 I can't buy a new copy of Word Perfect 6 [20:10] DaemonFC[m] I don't know why you would. [20:10] mjg59 Maybe I liked the UI better than on any of the later versions [20:11] DaemonFC[m] It seems the only thing that is in demand are Microsoft and compatible enough with Microsoft. [20:11] mjg59 Is choosing to stop publishing a book that contains racist stereotypes better or worse than choosing to stop publishing Word Perfect 6? [20:11] DaemonFC[m] Well, you could pirate it, and put it in a virtual machine, and pirate the operating system and the virtual machine, I guess. [20:11] mjg59 Sure, and you'll be able to pirate old Dr Seuss books [20:12] mjg59 Why are people not complaining about Word Perfect 6 being cancelled? [20:12] DaemonFC[m] Because it's not censorship. It was supplanted by other programs that do the same thing. [20:12] mjg59 They do similar things, not the same thing [20:13] DaemonFC[m] That's like saying why isn't it equally bad that FhG stopped making a program that produces MP3s. [20:13] DaemonFC[m] We have other programs that do the same job, so we don't need that particular program anymore. [20:13] mjg59 We have other Dr Seuss books [20:14] mjg59 Children are equally entertained by them [20:14] DaemonFC[m] Well, I think the point of those books was to be educational. [20:14] mjg59 I never read any of the ones that they've dropped, and I seem to have been educated anyway [20:14] mjg59 So we have other ways of educating people as well [20:15] mjg59 So we don't need these particular books anymore [20:15] DaemonFC[m] Yes, but they may miss lessons that the other books were trying to teach. [20:15] mjg59 Which lessons were unique to these books? [20:15] DaemonFC[m] I might actually pirate them to see what the hell is so bad instead of hearing CNN scream accusations. [20:15] DaemonFC[m] Oh snap. [20:15] DaemonFC[m] Now because they called attention to it, I will be exposed to these ideas. [20:15] DaemonFC[m] Ruh roh! [20:16] MinceR streisand effect :> [20:17] DaemonFC[m] Yes MinceR , and the funny thing is that I was not interested in Dr. Seuss at all before this. I mean, I remember dad used to buy some and read them to me from Waldenbooks. [20:17] mjg59 Literally nobody's saying you can't expose yourself to racist stereotypes if you want to? [20:17] mjg59 A publisher decided that they didn't want to publish them [20:18] DaemonFC[m] I'll inform you of what I come up with after this torrent gets done. [20:18] DaemonFC[m] At least some of them are in here. [20:18] DaemonFC[m] I'll probably just keep seeding this indefinitely. [20:19] DaemonFC[m] It's well known that people were pretty pissed off at the Japanese back then. [20:19] Old_Man What CNN published, did not contain any racist stereotypes. [20:19] DaemonFC[m] Can't imagine why. [20:19] Old_Man They contained some stereotypes, but not racist. That is a made-up accusation. [20:20] DaemonFC[m] It's good to look at the photos of the surrender. [20:20] Old_Man One or two were ***racial*** stereotypes, but most were ***cultural*** stereotypes. [20:20] DaemonFC[m] You can tell that they were utterly defeated in every sense of the word. [20:21] Old_Man Another term for "cultural stereotypes" is just, "culture." [20:21] DaemonFC[m] They were treated much more harshly than the Germans (unless they were directly tied to the Holocaust and then we hanged most of them). [20:21] mjg59 Depicting asians as having yellow skin is racist [20:21] Old_Man No it isn't. [20:21] mjg59 Sure it is [20:21] mjg59 It's deliberately dehumanising [20:22] mjg59 It's intended to accentuate differences [20:22] Old_Man No it isn't "deliberately dehumanising." [20:22] Old_Man That's just a false accusation. [20:22] MinceR 02 212202 < mjg59> It's intended to accentuate differences [20:22] Old_Man Here's a little something to help you make sure you're using your words correctly: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racist [20:22] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Racist | Definition of Racist by Merriam-Webster [20:22] MinceR so caricatures are racist and deliberately dehumanizing too? [20:23] Old_Man "Accentuating differences" does nothing to place one race over another. [20:23] MinceR is depicting caucasians as having white skin racist as well? [20:23] Old_Man Especially if those differences really do exist in the real world. [20:23] mjg59 schestowitz__: Good work, you've cultivated an excellent community here [20:24] Old_Man I realize it's popular among members of a certain political brainwashing cult to use "racist" to mean, "anyone who knows more about economics than us," but the other 2/3 of the country (or more) doesn't buy that usage. [20:24] DaemonFC[m] They don't have yellow skin in If I Ran the Zoo. [20:24] DaemonFC[m] They all look the same, but then there's also a group of white people that all look the same. [20:25] Old_Man It's like they took notes from George Orwell's "1984" and said, "hey, we should redefine words like they do!" and then they went on to say, "let's have 'two minutes' hate' of raging against political enemies, with no intelligent conversation, like they do!" [20:26] DaemonFC[m] No, it doesn't. [20:26] DaemonFC[m] There's nothing in this book that suggests one race or the other is inferior, at all. [20:26] Old_Man That's what I said. "does nothing." :) [20:27] DaemonFC[m] I'm not seeing anything wrong here except some liberals always have to be pissed about something. [20:27] mjg59 Ok, let's start from the beginning. Why are east asians occasionally depicted as having yellow skin? [20:27] DaemonFC[m] Someone did an excellent job converting these to PDF, I might add. [20:27] mjg59 It's not because their skin is yellow [20:28] Old_Man To show that a physical trait of that phenotype has more pigmentation than, say, europeans, but less pigmentation than, say, africans. [20:28] mjg59 So why yellow, rather than light brown? [20:28] DaemonFC[m] Well, that has nothing to do with Seuss because he didn't color in the skin of anyone. [20:28] DaemonFC[m] Maybe trying to avoid the racism he's being slandered with years after he died and cannot defend himself. [20:28] Old_Man yellow *is* a form of light brown. [20:29] mjg59 In the same way that grey is a form of white, sure [20:29] DaemonFC[m] It's going to be impossible to draw people of different races without someone screaming racism. [20:29] mjg59 But choosing yellow rather than something we'd describe as brown was a conscious choice [20:29] Old_Man Yes, paint store clerks sell many many variations of light gray that are generally referred to as "white." [20:29] mjg59 Why? [20:29] DaemonFC[m] Which is why they are screaming about racist pancakes. [20:29] DaemonFC[m] And racist syrup. [20:29] DaemonFC[m] And racist rice. [20:29] Old_Man I would imagine it's because there were limited pigment choices in early color printing technologies. [20:30] DaemonFC[m] Then these folks wonder why everyone hates them and says they're idiots. [20:30] DaemonFC[m] There was a petition circulating among black people that wanted them to keep Aunt Jemima. [20:30] Old_Man And it's carried over to the present day, where yellow skin tone in emojis means, "no biggie, whatever, phenotype is irrelevant to the point we're making here." [20:31] DaemonFC[m] Nobody listened to it. White people became concerned it was racist and demanded a solution without consulting the black community and asking if the majority of them were offended in a poll or something. [20:31] Old_Man And for 2/3 of the US, yellow skin tone is innocuous and meaningless and conveys, "phenotype is irrelevant to the point we're making here." [20:32] DaemonFC[m] Also, Garrett is overlooking the fact that there's never been a perfect color of, say, crayon, to draw skin tone in. [20:32] mjg59 You might imagine that! It's not true, though - they were described as yellow in text before being drawn that way [20:32] DaemonFC[m] At one point they were calling peach "flesh" and I'm sure if anyone cared if white people thought things were racist, some white person could say "We don't look like that!". [20:32] Old_Man DaemonFC[m]: take it one step further. There isn't actually a "black community" to consult, except in the minds of bigots. [20:33] DaemonFC[m] Well, sure there is, insofar as there can be one. [20:33] DaemonFC[m] You find black neighborhoods, black churches.... [20:33] DaemonFC[m] You ask some people there what they think maybe? [20:34] DaemonFC[m] There's no law that says black people have to go to a black church. [20:34] DaemonFC[m] Many do anyway. [20:34] mjg59 People from modern China and Japan were largely described as white in earlier texts [20:34] mjg59 The move to calling them "yellow" came later, as they were lumped in with other populations [20:35] DaemonFC[m] mjg59: I'll have to ask my husband if he's offended by this. [20:35] DaemonFC[m] He's Asian you know... [20:35] DaemonFC[m] At least I can ask him what he thinks. [20:35] Old_Man "Our world is not divided by race, color, gender, or religion. Our world is divided into wise people and fools. And fools divide themselves by race, color, gender, or religion." -Mohamad Safa [20:35] DaemonFC[m] Like, maybe instead of being offended FOR someone else, you could like....ask some of them if they feel offended? [20:36] DaemonFC[m] It's degrading to say that you have to speak for them to say they're offended without consulting. [20:36] mjg59 It was part of a process of more strongly defining whiteness as the preferable state, and so wanting to take whiteness away from people that had previously been considered white [20:37] Old_Man Heh, that reminds me of a time there was controversy over the team name of the Washington Redskins... and I was on a motorcycle ride through the Four Corners area, where Utah/Colorado/Arizona/New Mexico meet. The high school ***on the reservation*** had the team name, "Redskins." :D [20:37] mjg59 (similar to the way that jewishness has at various points been seen as a disqualification for whiteness) [20:38] mjg59 So no, it's not because they just didn't have appropriate skin pigments available in early printing [20:39] Old_Man Sure it is. That claim is just as valid as all others, and especially more valid when others are made *as a form of accusation* without evidence. [20:39] mjg59 It's literally not just as valid as all others, because it's not supported by historical evidence? [20:39] Old_Man Accusations always need to be accompanied with evidence; otherwise Hitchens's Razor is in effect. [20:39] DaemonFC[m] I think if Asian people in general are going "That's pretty fucked up." it deserves discussion. [20:40] DaemonFC[m] But what I'm getting here is just a sense that this is more white guilt shit. [20:40] Old_Man The idea of "assuming guilt as axiomatic" as part of postmodernist philosophy is widely accepted when it's used against non-postmodernists, but when it's aimed *back at* postmodernists, man, you should see them melt the fuck down! :D [20:40] Old_Man http://democrateconomics.com/cdpt/ [20:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-democrateconomics.com | Critical Democrat Pedophile Theory - Democrat Economics [20:41] MinceR 02 212706 < DaemonFC[m]> I'm not seeing anything wrong here except some liberals always have to be pissed about something. [20:41] MinceR they're not liberals, they're authoritarians [20:42] Old_Man "We'Re NoT PeDoPhIlEs!" -People who proudly assumed guilt as axiomatic when *they* were making accusations against their political opponents [20:42] mjg59 East asians weren't described as yellow until Linnaeus [20:42] mjg59 But it still wasn't a common term until the 19th century [20:43] Old_Man But we're talking about a specific instance here. We're talking about Dr. Seuss. [20:43] DaemonFC[m] Eh, some people accuse gay men of being pedophiles because, I mean, it's a scandalous accusation even if it doesn't apply. [20:43] Old_Man He did, in fact, author some propaganda cartoons during WWII, so if there is some evidence that his depictions are the result of actual racism (by the dictionary definition), it should be easy to find. [20:44] Old_Man But, in the absence of such evidence, and when CNN's examples of "wrongthink" are not racist, the assumption is of innocence of the accusation, until you bring something that actually exemplifies racism. [20:44] DaemonFC[m] There's a two-tiered system in how society treats those too. [20:44] mjg59 The suggestion isn't that Seuss himself was racist (he may or may not have been, it's pretty irrelevant here) [20:45] DaemonFC[m] When it's a guy it's "Gross. Lock him up forever!". [20:45] mjg59 The issue is whether the stereotypes he made use of were in themselves racist [20:45] Old_Man No it's not irrelevant. That's the point of making accusations. [20:45] DaemonFC[m] When it's a woman, "Oh yeah, she's hot. Kid probably wanted it!". [20:45] mjg59 And in this case it's pretty clear that they are! [20:45] DaemonFC[m] So it's another example of how nobody cares how you feel about something if you're white, and they really don't like white men. [20:46] Old_Man Only to those who have demonstrated that they don't know what the word "racist" means. [20:46] DaemonFC[m] If you're white and a man, you're definitely a pedophile and quite possibly a Nazi as well. [20:46] MinceR the point is not whether there's anything actually racist in there [20:46] MinceR the point is to find something, anything, to be outraged about [20:46] MinceR and to burn books and cancel people [20:46] DaemonFC[m] Or is it definitely a Nazi and maybe a pedophile? [20:46] DaemonFC[m] I never can remember. [20:46] mjg59 The only outraged people I see here are the ones complaining that a publisher chose to stop publishing some books [20:47] MinceR crybullies put people down to make themselves feel better about themselves [20:47] DaemonFC[m] The publisher didn't just decide to do that. [20:47] MinceR mjg59: maybe you should have invited the suits from the publisher, then [20:47] DaemonFC[m] They're being coerced. [20:47] MinceR and whomever whined to them about it [20:47] Old_Man mjg59, you didn't see the news article linked earlier about the reason *why* the publisher stopped publishing the books? [20:48] mjg59 Yes [20:48] Old_Man mjg59, would you like me to find that link and copy-and-paste it to you, so you can see which outrage DaemonFC[m] is talking about? [20:48] mjg59 I saw the article [20:48] mjg59 I see nobody being outraged about anything [20:48] Old_Man It would be immensely valuable for you to understand the topic of conversation before attempting to join the conversation. :D [20:49] mjg59 Would you like to point at the specific instances of outrage? [20:49] DaemonFC[m] These fucking assholes are taking everything away. [20:49] Old_Man Yes: the decision to stop publishing those books, in the link that was provided earlier. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] Elmer Fudd, who is a hunter, cannot have a gun. [20:49] Old_Man Would you like me to find the link and copy-and-paste it to you? [20:49] mjg59 Because the only thing I see there is text from a study published two years ago [20:50] DaemonFC[m] Maybe they'll go back and ban the episodes already made many years ago too. [20:50] DaemonFC[m] Because gun! [20:50] Old_Man mjg59, the "study" is an opinion piece that gets the definition of "racist" wrong, and is therefore an example of "outrage." [20:50] mjg59 I think you're redefining "outrage" [20:50] Old_Man Is that bad now? [20:50] Old_Man Or is redefining words still okay with you? [20:51] Old_Man Orwellians are always so confusing. :D [20:51] MinceR :> [20:51] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [20:51] mjg59 The study is a peer reviewed piece in an academic journal [20:52] Old_Man So was the Lancet's report on Iraqi deaths in 2002. [20:52] mjg59 It presents some facts, and then draws conclusions from them [20:52] mjg59 You can disagree with the conclusions [20:52] Old_Man That was a politically-motivated opinion piece too. [20:52] mjg59 But it's no more an opinion piece than any other piece of research [20:52] Old_Man "Peer review" in the soft sciences just means, "I found someone who agreed with me." It does not improve objective measurability, nor replicability. [20:53] Old_Man Yes it is. [20:53] Old_Man The failure of the ability to objectively measure nor repeat is called out quickly in the hard sciences. [20:53] mjg59 Ha. [20:53] Old_Man I believe there is a wikipedia article on the current "replication crisis" in the soft sciences. Would you like me to google it for you and provide you with a link? [20:54] Old_Man Okay, I did it: here's your link: [20:54] Old_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis [20:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Replication crisis - Wikipedia [20:54] mjg59 I've got a PhD in genetics, I'm very familiar with this, thanks [20:55] Old_Man Oh, you're part of the problem? :D ● Mar 02 [21:00] mjg59 But your argument is that an article published two years ago was sufficient outrage that a publisher was compelled to cease publishing some books? [21:00] DaemonFC[m] Well, I guess I get to drive downstate at the crack of dawn on the 26th, [21:00] DaemonFC[m] Walgreens app says I can't even try to reschedule COVID vaccine dose 2 now. Only cancel it. (Nope!) [21:01] DaemonFC[m] For some reason, people are having no trouble being offered a first appointment but can't schedule a second one. [21:01] DaemonFC[m] The state and feds have this terribly fucked up with doses that must be used for #1 or #2 even though both are exactly the same contents. [21:02] Old_Man mjg59, the outrage was on both the part of the fake-scientists who attempted to redefine "racist" in an Orwellian and not-consensus-based way, and then on the part of the publisher who decided to stop publishing based on that. [21:03] Old_Man The publisher was not "compelled," as you say. That's wrong. They made the decision themselves, based on the Orwellian concept of "Two Minutes' Hate." (That also has its own wikipedia article, if you're unfamiliar.) [21:04] mjg59 So outrage doesn't require anger any more? [21:04] MinceR anger didn't seem to be a factor in your diagnosis [21:04] mjg59 Quite [21:04] *XFaCE has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [21:05] mjg59 Or are we using outrage in the sense of the publisher having engaged in an act that you consider outrageous? [21:05] Old_Man Sure it is; anger and hatred against an out-group. That's what motivates people to call things "racist" that aren't actually racist. [21:05] MinceR i'm not [21:05] Old_Man So yes, both the fake-scientists and the publishers fit that description. [21:06] mjg59 I see no evidence whatsoever of anger here [21:06] Old_Man I do. Redefining the word "racist" according to Orwellian "thoughtcrime" and "wrongthink" principles are symptoms of it. [21:07] mjg59 Ok, so we have fundamentally different interpretations of the same facts here [21:07] *XFaCE (XFaCE@unaffiliated/xface) has joined #techrights [21:07] mjg59 Fair enough [21:08] Old_Man Perhaps you *do* need to re-read the scene from "1984" in which the hatred of the enemies of the state was propagated. Let me find that article for you. [21:08] Old_Man It was an essential ingredient. [21:09] Old_Man Here you go; here is the mechanism for propagating false accusations and hatred against the out-group, from the perspective of a brainwashing cult, as postmodernists have become today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_minutes_hate [21:09] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Two Minutes Hate - Wikipedia [21:09] mjg59 Who is the out-group in this case? [21:10] Old_Man Non-postmodernists, as I said earlier. In "1984," it was enemies of the authoritarian political party. In the modern world, it has become... [21:10] Old_Man The same. The enemies of the authoritarian political party. [21:11] mjg59 Who in the out-group is having false accusations and hatred targeted at them in this case? [21:11] Old_Man Anyone who disagrees with their attempt to redefine "racism." [21:12] mjg59 What are the false accusations? [21:13] Old_Man Are you *sure* you don't want me to find that link to the CNN article again? It contained the answer to that question! [21:13] mjg59 I have the tab open, thanks [21:13] mjg59 I'm asking what the false accusation is [21:14] Old_Man Okay, there you go. Every place they've misused the term "racist" to describe an example of something in Dr. Seuss's books, is an example of such a false accusation. [21:14] Old_Man But if you want more examples of *other people* in *other situtations* employing the same Orwellian "Two Minutes Hate" technique, try the book by Robin DiAngelo. [21:14] Old_Man And her made-up "white collective." [21:15] mjg59 No, I asked what the false accusation in the article was [21:15] Old_Man Oh, you *do* need a copy/paste? [21:15] mjg59 A paraphrase is fine [21:16] Old_Man No, I'll give you a direct copy/paste: from the headline, for example: [21:16] Old_Man they portray people in 'hurtful and wrong' ways [21:16] Old_Man Sorry you weren't able to read as far as the headline. :D [21:16] mjg59 Ok [21:16] mjg59 How do we determine whether "hurtful and wrong" is true or false? [21:18] Old_Man Ahhh, basic epistemology. I'm not sure I have time for it today, but would you like me to provide you with a link to a Wikipedia article about the scientific method? [21:18] Old_Man I can also give you a link to a Wikipedia article that summarizes, and provides additional links to sources about what we call the "replication crisis" these days. [21:18] mjg59 If we find one person hurt by the depiction, is the depiction hurtful? [21:18] Old_Man That's an example of how science is often done *wrong*. [21:19] Old_Man I'm hurt by you asking that question. [21:19] mjg59 If you described that question as hurtful, would you be making a false accusation? [21:19] Old_Man I'm hurt by you asking that question. [21:19] mjg59 (Assuming that you were genuinely hurt, of course) [21:20] Old_Man I'm still hurt by you asking that question. [21:20] mjg59 Ok, so let's assume that one person being hurt by something makes it hurtful. That's a standard we can easily test. [21:20] Old_Man I'm hurt by you making that assertion. [21:20] mjg59 Anything invalid about that from a scientific perspective? [21:20] Old_Man I'm hurt by *that* question, too. [21:21] mjg59 My apologies. It's apparently impossible to have this discussion with you, so I'll avoid doing so. [21:21] Old_Man I'm hurt by that assertion, too. [21:23] Old_Man Okay, very good. That's the way it's supposed to go. Postmodernists who believe that their wittle feewings are the determiners of truth and falsehood above all else, will *always* remove themselves from every conversation in exactly this way, when their own logic is employed, and they follow it consistently. [21:24] Old_Man Usually it doesn't work out that way; usually the postmodernists devolve into screaming tirades of hatred and personal attacks, exactly as depicted in the "Two Minutes' Hate" scene of "1984." [21:25] Old_Man So, kudos to mjg59 for being philosophically consistent, but anti-kudos for being philosophically consistent with a philosophy that isn't useful for determining anything or solving any problems in the real world. [21:26] Old_Man But, since we have found at least one feewings-uber-alles postmodernist who will employ that philosophy consistently, let's ask mjg59 to "feel" for us a cure to COVID-19. [21:27] mjg59 Ok, so what is your method for determining whether calling something "hurtful" is true or false? [21:29] Old_Man Whether anyone provides any evidence of the hurt. [21:29] Old_Man Same as anything else. Are you familiar with "Hitchens's Razor?" [21:30] mjg59 One person saying "I am hurt by this" would be sufficient, then? [21:30] Old_Man No. Do you know the difference between an "accusation" and "evidence?" [21:30] mjg59 Yes [21:31] mjg59 Personal testimony is evidence [21:31] Old_Man Does that include Julie Swetnick's "personal testimony" against Brett Kavanaugh? [21:31] mjg59 Yes [21:33] Old_Man How about Judy Munro-Leighton's "personal testimony" against Brett Kavanaugh? [21:34] mjg59 I'm not sure what your point here is [21:34] Old_Man https://globalnews.ca/news/4628088/brett-kavanaugh-rape-accusation-lie/ [21:34] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Kavanaugh accuser admits to making up rape accusation as tactic - National | Globalnews.ca [21:34] mjg59 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testimony [21:34] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Testimony - Wikipedia [21:34] mjg59 "In the law, testimony is a form of evidence" [21:34] Old_Man "Personal testimonies" are *often* false when they're made as part of a campaign of brainwashing hatred, as in Orwell's "Two Minutes' Hate." [21:35] mjg59 What you're saying is that you don't believe the evidence, not that it's not evidence [21:35] Old_Man Right; the scientific method finds that "just making it up" leads to a replication crisis. [21:36] Old_Man "Personal testimony" is not accepted as evidence. [21:36] mjg59 Ah, so do you mean "Whether someone provides scientific evidence of the hurt"? [21:36] mjg59 Rather than "Whether someone provides any evidence of the hurt"? [21:37] Old_Man Isn't that the key question of thousands of rape trials in courthouses across the US? [21:37] mjg59 No [21:37] mjg59 Criminal guilt isn't determined by whether or not there's any evidence [21:37] Old_Man This is why wise parents teach their children that, if they are raped, they should hurt their rapist. Fight back. Scratch, bite, make sure there's blood somewhere. [21:37] mjg59 They're determined by whether the evidence meets the bar of leaving no reasonable doubt of the defendent's guilt [21:38] Old_Man It's *supposed* to be. That was the idea of using a jury; to work around the corruptibility and biases of one or two people. [21:38] mjg59 That doesn't alter whether personal testimony is evidence or not [21:38] Old_Man And jurors are, in fact, instructed to weigh such evidence. [21:38] mjg59 It's a simple matter of law that it is [21:39] mjg59 So when you said "evidence", you can't have meant it in the legal sense [21:39] Old_Man But left up to juries specifically because the constructors of the legal system knew that such "evidence" would be abused. [21:40] Old_Man And, we see such examples every day, as in the personal testimonies of people who were proven to lie for political gain. [21:40] mjg59 Or maybe you meant "sufficient evidence" [21:40] mjg59 Either way, your initial statement would, via the literal definitions of the words you used, be satisfied by a single person saying that they felt hurt by the material in question [21:41] mjg59 So perhaps you'd like to rephrase it? [21:41] MinceR would that work the other way around too? [21:41] Old_Man Nah, I think it's fine. I believe your evasion, when I asked you about Kavanaugh's accuser, showed that you understood that such evidence could not be relied upon. [21:42] mjg59 Oh, it was evidence [21:42] mjg59 In the circumstances, it was not evidence that should be given much weight [21:42] Old_Man No, pure fictions that people make up out of political hatred are not "evidence." [21:42] mjg59 They literally are [21:42] Old_Man Then, I accuse you of molesting me when I was a child. [21:43] mjg59 Sure, your statement is evidence [21:43] Old_Man My evidence is my personal testimony. [21:43] mjg59 Yup [21:43] mjg59 Were I to sue you for defamation, it would be up to me to convince a court that you were knowingly making a false statement [21:44] mjg59 If the entirety of your evidence were that single statement, I'd probably win [21:44] Old_Man Well, I think you've very accurately represented how the reproducibility crisis did, in fact, come to be. [21:44] mjg59 But as a simple matter of law, your personal testimony is evidence [21:45] Old_Man I was just teasing earlier, but I think you probably really *are* part of the problem. [21:45] mjg59 And I'm not sure why this is controversial [21:46] Old_Man It's controversial because non-postmodernists use their definitions of "evidence" to arrive at conclusions that do useful things in the real world. [21:46] Old_Man Prevent future crimes by known criminals, prevent the spread of COVID-19, and build planes and bridges that actually work. [21:46] mjg59 Do you believe that courts do not consider personal testimony to be evidence? [21:47] Old_Man Juries often do not. Juries discard personal testimony every day, all across the country. [21:47] mjg59 Yes, as part of weighing the evidence [21:47] mjg59 It's still evidence [21:47] mjg59 They may just give little weight to it [21:47] DaemonFC[m] They have to determine how credible the witness is. [21:48] mjg59 They do! [21:48] DaemonFC[m] That's why the defense will seek to discredit the witness. [21:48] mjg59 That influences how much weight the evidence the witness provides gets [21:48] mjg59 It's still evidence [21:48] Old_Man And they do that by comparing what the person says with... what, exactly? [21:48] Old_Man Whether their bestie from high school agrees with them? [21:48] DaemonFC[m] More solid evidence, inconsistencies with their own testimony or the testimony of other witnesses. [21:48] Old_Man Whether they can find co-conspirators in their crime to agree with them? [21:49] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [21:49] DaemonFC[m] The jury also considers how they carry themselves and speak, and how they are dressed and groomed. [21:49] Old_Man And, if there is anything that can be *confirmed* by other observers in the real world. [21:49] mjg59 Sure [21:50] mjg59 The jury will make a decision based on the totality of the evidence presented to them [21:50] mjg59 It's still all evidence [21:50] DaemonFC[m] During the trial of Jason Van Dyke, another cop, his partner, said that on the way over there, Van Dyke said that he was hoping to kill someone that night. [21:50] mjg59 Did you read the wikipedia article I linked earlier? [21:50] DaemonFC[m] That had to have been pretty bad, paired up with the dash and body cameras. [21:50] mjg59 It would help if you were familiar with the facts under discussion [21:51] Old_Man Like the examples I gave from the real world, of false testimony rendered for political purposes? [21:52] mjg59 Yes. False statements are evidence. [21:52] Old_Man Is there anyone who has said so in their description of the scientific method? [21:52] mjg59 Going back to my previous question: [21:52] mjg59 By "evidence", did you mean "scientific evidence" [21:53] mjg59 Because these are not the same things [21:53] Old_Man No, we can agree to do it the other way around: we can agree to say "evidence" when we're talking about what's useful in the real world, and if you want to talk about a different context in which purposefully-false things count as evidence, *you* preface it with "postmodernist" instead, okay? [21:54] mjg59 The judicial system is postmodernist? [21:54] Old_Man Any judicial system which solicits false statements for political purposes would be, sure. [21:54] mjg59 Do you agree that, as a matter of law, personal testimony is evidence? [21:54] Old_Man Fortunately that did *not* happen in the case of the Kavanaugh confirmation, but that's not to say it won't in the future. [21:56] Old_Man I'm not sure about that. Is there a source that says that false personal testimony rendered for political gain is explicitly evidence? [21:56] *jess is now known as J [21:56] mjg59 There are no shortage of sources that describe personal testimony as evidence [21:57] mjg59 Perhaps you can find one that has a more restrictive definition [21:57] Old_Man Right, but we're talking about "in the real world" here. We're not talking about abstracts. Who is it, exactly, who says that false personal testimony created as a fiction for personal gain is solicited as evidence? [21:58] Old_Man Is that documented in any legal system, anywhere? [21:58] mjg59 All personal testimony is evidence [21:59] mjg59 There are no carveouts [21:59] mjg59 The evidence may be demonstrated to be false, just as any other evidence may be [21:59] Old_Man Well I mean, do you have a source to cite that says that they welcome false personal testimony created as a fiction for political gain? [21:59] Old_Man That that's something anyone actually desires, to accomplish some purpose in the real world? ● Mar 02 [22:00] Old_Man Because if not, we can come to an even easier agreement on how to communicate so that we can be understood, between you and me: [22:01] Old_Man Unless I am talking about a work of fiction, like TV or books or a fiction story I'm working on with a friend, when I discuss real-world topics, you may assume that my sentences are all preceded by the phrase, "in the real world." [22:02] mjg59 I'm not sure what you mean by "welcome" here [22:02] Old_Man So that excludes postmodernist epistemologies in which false personal testimonies produced as fiction for political benefit are considered "evidence." [22:02] mjg59 If I go into court and commit perjury, I still provided evidence. The judge should instruct the jury to disregard it. [22:03] Old_Man Why would the judge instruct the jury to disregard it? [22:03] mjg59 Because if it was false, it should be given no weight [22:03] Old_Man Why? [22:04] mjg59 Because this is a foundational principle of justice [22:04] Old_Man Why? [22:06] mjg59 We wish to determine the truth of someone's guilt [22:06] mjg59 False evidence does not aid us in making that determination [22:07] Old_Man Right. It isn't useful in the real world. It doesn't help us assign responsibility for restitution, nor does it help us prevent future crimes. [22:08] Old_Man So, going forward, we'll just use the term "evidence," and if you want to talk about things that aren't useful in the real world, you can be clear in your context by saying "false evidence" or "postmodernist evidence" or "politically-motivated evidence" or something like that. [22:08] Old_Man That way, you can communicate with the rest of the world, who want their evidence to be meaningful toward some clear end. [22:08] mjg59 No, we'll use the dictionary definition of the word [22:08] mjg59 If you mean something different, describe what you actually mean [22:09] Old_Man We'll especially go with Merriam-Webster definition 1 a, then, in which it explicitly uses verbiage that excludes internal feewings. [22:10] Old_Man Okay, glad we were able to resolve that tangent. :D [22:10] mjg59 The definition of "hurtful" is something that hurts someone's feelings [22:10] mjg59 So we kind of need to take feelings into account [22:11] Old_Man That's interesting... Merriam-Webster's definition of "hurtful" doesn't say anything at all about feelings or emotions of any kind. [22:11] Old_Man It's almost as if you... assumed that, as axiomatic. [22:11] Old_Man That's very postmodernist of you. [22:12] Old_Man And attempting to hold others to that assumption? Very Orwellian. [22:12] mjg59 Oxford describes it as "Causing distress to someone's feelings" [22:12] mjg59 Cambridge has "Causing emotional pain" [22:13] mjg59 Collins includes "Upsetting" [22:15] Old_Man And dictionary.com doesn't. [22:16] mjg59 Dictionary.com says "to cause hurt", and its definitions of "hurt" include "to feel or suffer bodily or mental pain or distress" [22:16] mjg59 Mental distress sounds awfully like feeligns to me [22:18] Old_Man I'm glad I was able to help you understand what evidence is going to be required of you, if you ever try to make such an accusation. [22:19] Old_Man And why those who are making the Dr. Seuss accusations aren't being taken seriously. [22:20] mjg59 Ok, so what evidence do you require? [22:20] Old_Man Hopefully this realization will help you to *not* be a part of the "replication crisis" in science, in addition to why postmodernism in culture drives things like--in today's example--the Streisand Effect. [22:20] mjg59 You still literally haven't defined it [22:20] Old_Man Sure I have: the kind that's useful in the real world, and isn't subject to corrupting real-world-useful processes for political gain. [22:20] mjg59 What evidence demonstrates that someone's feelings are hurt? [22:21] Old_Man I've mentioned those characteristics a few times now. [22:21] Old_Man That's what most of the world considers to be "evidence." [22:21] Old_Man And you're welcome to communicate with us, if you like. [22:21] Old_Man Or, you can be part of the "replication crisis" in science, as well as culturally irrelevant. That's a choice that's open to you as well. [22:22] mjg59 People consider someone's personal testimony regarding their feelings to be evidence of their feelings [22:22] Old_Man Not if they're clearly being used to impose some obligation on other people. [22:22] Old_Man I mean, YES, you're probably right in your little circle of anti-science folks. [22:22] Old_Man But, like, in the wider world, everybody's wise to that tactic now. It doesn't work any more. [22:24] Old_Man You can thank the Kavanaugh accusers, and Jussie Smollett, and those who killed David Dorn and Chris Beaty for that. [22:25] mjg59 How many people need to be hurt by something for calling it "hurtful" to be truthful? [22:25] Old_Man I think it's a little premature to ask that question. Show evidence of 1, and we'll see if anyone needs to care or pay attention to it from there. [22:26] mjg59 Do you have evidence that it's 0? [22:27] Old_Man And if you're up for a little scientific experiment, you can bring your "postmodernist evidence" or "obviously politically-motivated evidence," or "false evidence," or whatever you want to call what you've been asking about, and see if you get any response from people who care about how things work in the real world to give you any response besides yawning. [22:28] Old_Man I have no evidence of any hurt yet. [22:29] mjg59 Is absence of evidence evidence of absence? [22:31] Old_Man When I didn't make a statement either way, it looks like your attempt to suddenly bring up that question is a dodge to abdicate your burden of proof. [22:32] Old_Man But I'm not interested in joining your distraction in that way. So, we're going to go on with our lives, torrenting Dr. Seuss books for our kids, teaching them about the uselessness of postmodernists, and making sure they know how to resolve the replication crisis. [22:32] mjg59 What I'm saying is that you have not performed any investigation of whether or not the description of the depictions in some Dr Seuss books was "hurtful" [22:32] MinceR and trying to save free software from crybullies [22:32] mjg59 You believe it to be false, but can't provide evidence of that [22:32] Old_Man If you want to make yourself useful to the world, one area you might want to study is resolving the COVID-19 pandemic. [22:33] mjg59 Based on discussions I have had in the past, I believe it to be true, but can't provide evidence of that [22:33] Old_Man But... you might want to shrug off some of those burdens of postmodernist epistemology, because, like faith-based approaches, they don't actually work. [22:33] *Old_Man clinks beer glasses with MinceR. That too. [22:33] mjg59 Dude, you're the person who disagrees with the literal definition of "evidence" [22:33] mjg59 I mean [22:34] mjg59 Come on [22:34] MinceR :) [22:34] Old_Man No, no, I explicitly agreed with Merriam-Webster definition 1 a. [22:34] Old_Man But, your attempt to reverse my position in what's known as the "Straw Man Fallacy" is not unheard-of among postmodernists. [22:36] mjg59 The term "false evidence" wouldn't exist if only truthful statements were evidence [22:36] Old_Man So, one last wikipedia link before I go make something of value. If you read this one, your opinion may be cared about more in the future: [22:36] Old_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) [22:36] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Burden of proof (philosophy) - Wikipedia [22:36] mjg59 Because "false evidence" would be a contradiction in terms [22:37] mjg59 You made the claim that a false accusation had been made [22:37] mjg59 Burden of proof is on you [22:39] Old_Man Hahahahaha, so you don't know what an "accusation" is? [22:41] Old_Man An "accusation" is a claim. What I called a false accusation was the initial claim, that was not substantiated by the accuser. That's where the burden of proof lies. [22:41] Old_Man But... I really don't have sufficient time to explain *all* of logic and real-world-useful epistemology today, so I'm going to have to let you read that link on your own... now that you understand that the accusation was the initial claim. [22:42] mjg59 I didn't make the claim [22:42] mjg59 I challenged your claim [22:42] *tr_guest|85484 (8258bbae@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.130.88.187.174) has joined #techrights [22:42] *tr_guest|85484 has quit (Client Quit) [22:42] mjg59 Do you have evidence that false accusations were made against the out-group? [22:42] Old_Man Right, and that was illogical of you, because the challenge should have been issued to the person making the accusation, who thus bore the burden of proof. [22:42] mjg59 No, you don't [22:43] Old_Man So, yes, that does mean that your challenge of *me* was wasted time and effort. Sorry to have to tell you. [22:44] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/733558.jpg [22:45] Old_Man Anyway, let me know if they ever get back to you, once you get your burden-of-proof issues worked out, and your demand for evidence pointed in the right direction. [22:45] mjg59 Let me know when you've figured out a mechanism for determining the truth of whether or not something was hurtful [22:46] Old_Man Oh, I'm good: those of us who share a real-world-useful definition of "evidence" are just sitting and waiting for it to be fulfilled. [22:46] Old_Man But we're not, ah, you know, holding our breaths or anything. :D [22:47] mjg59 What evidence in this case would you consider to meet your definition of real-world-useful evidence? [22:50] mjg59 Kind of unfair for you to ask for evidence without making it clear what would actually convince you [22:51] Old_Man Would you like me to provide a link to the definition I said we could all agree on, multiple times? [22:52] Old_Man I mean, having pointed it out multiple times, I am left believing that your continued asking is mere disingenuousness. [22:54] Old_Man And, the fact that you attempted to reverse my words (I identified that as the "Straw Man Fallacy," above), is yet another reason why I believe that you are merely disingenuous now. [22:55] Old_Man So, keep asking the same question a few more times, commit the "Straw Man Fallacy" again, maybe engage in Orwell's "Two Minutes' Hate" if you like. These are expected behaviors. [22:59] mjg59 No, the definition you've provided isn't sufficient ● Mar 02 [23:00] mjg59 It's extremely subjective [23:18] *aindilis (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights [23:19] techrights-bot Steam Link Is Now Available on Linux to Stream Your Steam Games on Any Device http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/148341 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [23:19] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Steam Link Is Now Available on Linux to Stream Your Steam Games on Any Device | Tux Machines [23:20] vmg32 Is "Mesh" being commandeered? https://www.techradar.com/news/microsoft-mesh-is-a-holographic-communication-platform-straight-from-science-fiction [23:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft Mesh is a holographic communication platform straight from science fiction | TechRadar [23:23] MinceR google bombed? [23:23] techrights-bot One billion dollars per #patent from just one company is clearly disproportional, but welcome to Texas https://patentlyo.com/patent/2021/03/billion-albrights-courtroom.html [23:23] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentlyo.com | billion verdict in Judge Albright's Courtroom [23:23] vmg32 scraps for peasants [23:24] techrights-bot "The '467 patent generally relates to obtaining radio access network information and transmitting location information" https://www.unifiedpatents.com/insights/2021/3/2/2500-for-prior-art-on-ip-edge-sub-decatur-licensing #swpats #patents [23:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.unifiedpatents.com | $2,500 for prior art on IP Edge sub, Decatur Licensing Unified Patents [23:28] vmg32 semantics are our reward [23:29] *kingoffrance has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:32] techrights-bot #Ubuntu Blog: #GRUB2 Secure Boot Bypass 2021 https://ubuntu.com//blog/grub2-secure-boot-bypass-2021 #security [23:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GRUB2 Secure Boot Bypass 2021 | Ubuntu [23:36] techrights-bot "About one-third of military service members are refusing to take the coronavirus vaccine." https://www.thenation.com/article/society/military-covid-vaccine/ stop using terms like "antivaxxer" to defend barely tested stuff that about half the population is rejecting... [23:36] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thenation.com | The Military Cant Get Troops to Take the Covid Vaccine. Come Again? | The Nation [23:36] *J is now known as jess [23:37] techrights-bot #WordPress 5.7 Release Candidate 2 https://wordpress.org/news/2021/03/wordpress-5-7-release-candidate-2/ #cms #freesw #gpl [23:37] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-News WordPress 5.7 Release Candidate 2 WordPress.org [23:38] techrights-bot "This time, we have Linux on Mars, Mint users not doing their updates, /e/ phones shipping to the US and Canada, and a browser extension that makes the web unusable, but is still interesting." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD85fjdYL4I [23:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Linux on Mars, Mint users don't update, block the whole web, and GNOME 40 on multi-monitor setups - YouTube [23:38] vmg32 some of those philosophy related posts earlier had me spinning, still am. [23:38] techrights-bot "We're happy to announce #KiwiTCMS version 10.0!" https://kiwitcms.org/blog/kiwi-tcms-team/2021/03/02/kiwi-tcms-100/ #cms #freesw [23:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-kiwitcms.org | Kiwi TCMS - Kiwi TCMS 10.0 [23:41] techrights-bot PRESS: Hardware hacker and academic #NadyaPeek to keynote #LibrePlanet 2021 https://www.fsf.org/news/press-hardware-hacker-and-academic-nadya-peek-to-keynote-libreplanet-2021 [23:41] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fsf.org | PRESS: Hardware hacker and academic Nadya Peek to keynote LibrePlanet 2021 Free Software Foundation Working together for free software [23:42] *kingoffrance (~x@2601:681:8200:b890::a4b6) has joined #techrights [23:44] techrights-bot "It appears the Simplified Chinese stats decrease when Linux increases, and vice versa..." https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1242083-steam-on-linux-in-february-still-residing-below-1 [23:44] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Steam On Linux In February Still Residing Below 1% - Phoronix Forums [23:46] techrights-bot Lots of talk about #gnu #linux users in #linuxmint camp not updating package. When #microsoft corrupts #raspi to push Microsoft malware as part of the updates (without warning) who can blame them? [23:50] techrights-bot "We are pleased to announce that Red Hat Satellite 6.8.4 is generally available as of February 23, 2021." https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hat-satellite-684-has-been-released #ibm #redhat [23:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.redhat.com | Red Hat Satellite 6.8.4 has been released [23:51] techrights-bot #MakeUseOf now promoting #wsl crap even though it is an attack on #gnu #linux and most people recognise this and thus avoid this. #wsl2 http://techrights.org/2020/05/06/wsl2-usage-numbers/ [23:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Only About 150,000 People Worldwide Use WSL2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux) | Techrights [23:51] techrights-bot #RedHat Delivers a More Secure Foundation for Modern Applications with First FIPS 140-2 Validation for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210302005474/en/Red-Hat-Delivers-a-More-Secure-Foundation-for-Modern-Applications-with-First-FIPS-140-2-Validation-for-Red-Hat-Enterprise-Linux-8 [23:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.businesswire.com | Red Hat Delivers a More Secure Foundation for Modern Applications with First FIPS 140-2 Validation for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 | Business Wire [23:52] techrights-bot #ibm #redhat eyes military https://www.oaoa.com/news/business/red-hat-adds-common-criteria-certification-for-red-hat-enterprise-linux-8/article_9b400fc4-281c-52c1-884f-d7587c7e2a81.html [23:52] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.oaoa.com | Red Hat Adds Common Criteria Certification for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8 - Odessa American: Business [23:53] kingoffrance re: replication crisis, not directly the same but michael crichton wrote a piece "aliens cause global warming" -- about how consensus != science. replication is the whole thing. vague formulas, that mean nothing, cannot be reproduced. "consensus" in that context is replacement for reproducability/replication, i.e. people all agree but the reproducability is missing [23:54] techrights-bot "You can follow it on Steam and try the #GNU #Linux demo on itch.io." https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/03/try-the-demo-of-dashing-dodgems-a-frantic-and-hilarious-bumper-cars-party-game [23:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Try the demo of Dashing Dodgems, a frantic and hilarious bumper cars party game | GamingOnLinux [23:55] kingoffrance its basically saying popularity contest means nothing re: science. either its reproducable or not [23:55] kingoffrance if its just "consensus" its not science, if its science its not consensu [23:56] vmg32 popularity contests [23:56] techrights-bot #KDE Plasma desktop updated to 5.21.2 in #PCLinuxOS https://www.pclinuxos.com/?p=4684 #gnu #linux [23:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-KDE Plasma desktop updated to 5.21.2 PCLinuxOS [23:56] kingoffrance i would say science may or may not be popular, but thats irrelevant basically [23:56] kingoffrance it could be both, but thats not determing factor/criteria/etc. [23:58] techrights-bot "protected by end-to-end encryption." LOL! Between you and the company, not the person you speak to. #viber is still a #surveillance company, but the term "E2E(E)" is totally misused to confuse people and distract from real #privacy https://www.pclinuxos.com/?p=4682 [23:58] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Viber updated to 13.3.1.22 PCLinuxOS [23:58] DaemonFC[m] They can normally make it a requirement for soldiers to take vaccines. [23:58] DaemonFC[m] But since the Coronavirus vaccine is not FDA approved, they can't. [23:59] DaemonFC[m] It's under an Emergency Use Authorization which means we're in a bad enough situation that they're allowed to offer certain less tested therapeutics to the public to be used on Coronavirus.