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XRevan86it's not like there was a lot of competition for party namesOct 07 00:00
XRevan86meanwhile, the Navalny's unregistered party got renamed a three times if I count rightOct 07 00:00
XRevan86because the registers keep registering same-named bogus parties %)Oct 07 00:01
XRevan86and I didn't count rightOct 07 00:02
XRevan86two timesOct 07 00:02
XRevan86The last name is also claimed to be occupied, but no one was able to find the bogus party that took the name Russia of the FutureOct 07 00:03
XRevan86it seems the said party kept the name (for now? or maybe it gave up)Oct 07 00:04
XRevan86https://youtu.be/aOE_3_Ws4y0?t=1715 about Russian newssourcesOct 07 00:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-СОБАЧЬЕ СЕРДЦЕ (советский фильм комедия драма) - YouTubeOct 07 00:18
XRevan86(with subtitles)Oct 07 00:18
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scienteslong videoOct 07 00:36
scientessecond 1715Oct 07 00:37
scientestransplant a human pituitary ordinary poochOct 07 00:37
scienteshehehe, oh I love dark humorOct 07 00:38
scientesthis loos very new howeverOct 07 00:38
scientesthe picture is crisp like it wasn't on filmOct 07 00:39
XRevan86scientes: It's the whole film %)Oct 07 00:39
XRevan86scientes: It's just stylised as black-and-whiteOct 07 00:39
XRevan86it's shot in the late 80sOct 07 00:39
scientesoh, so still on film howeverOct 07 00:39
scienteswhere?Oct 07 00:39
XRevan86I can just give you the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_a_Dog_(1988_film)Oct 07 00:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Heart of a Dog (1988 film) - WikipediaOct 07 00:40
scientes1925Oct 07 00:40
scientes" Its publication was initially prohibited in the Soviet Union, but it circulated in samizdat until it was officially released in the country in 1987."Oct 07 00:40
XRevan86scientes: It's full of commentary on the early days after the revolution.Oct 07 00:40
scienteshmm, peristroika is interestingOct 07 00:40
scientes"1988 Soviet television film "Oct 07 00:42
XRevan86IIRC, the film isn't critical of the higher political powers, it even features a (very) Stalin-esque figure in a non-negative light.Oct 07 00:42
scientesyeah but its almost more interesting that peristroika they had to self-criticizeOct 07 00:42
scientesor I guess they chose this cause it was only critical of communismOct 07 00:42
XRevan86scientes: Gorbachëv did deliver on loosening upOct 07 00:43
scientesbut Animal Farm is much more to the pointOct 07 00:43
MinceRdid he really, though?Oct 07 00:43
scientesexcept on the boozeOct 07 00:43
scientesand what else could you use when you need to loosen up?Oct 07 00:44
XRevan86MinceR: I didn't say all the way %)Oct 07 00:44
scienteshow can you loosen up sober?Oct 07 00:44
MinceR:>Oct 07 00:44
scienteseverything is falling apart, and now you can't drink?Oct 07 00:45
XRevan86scientes: Heart of a Dog (the film at least) is focused on clueless people getting power.Oct 07 00:45
XRevan86scientes: Not comparable to Animal Farm at all.Oct 07 00:45
scientesit sounds quite mildOct 07 00:46
scientesAnimal Farm is simple and brutally realOct 07 00:46
scientesvery good bookOct 07 00:46
XRevan86scientes: I read and saw a cartoonOct 07 00:46
scientesalong with 1984Oct 07 00:46
XRevan86the cartoon is pretty goodOct 07 00:46
scientesALL ANIMALS ARE CREATED EQUAL EXCEPT SOME ANIMAL ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERSOct 07 00:47
XRevan86scientes: Anyway, the film is just good.Oct 07 00:47
scientesAll animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than othersOct 07 00:47
MinceRfour legs good, two legs better!Oct 07 00:48
scientesI mean, every government is based on that sort of thingOct 07 00:49
scienteswell no, only the US, because it doesn't have an ethnic identityOct 07 00:49
scientesand is a powder keg about to explodeOct 07 00:49
XRevan86All parties are equal, but some parties get to be on the ballot.Oct 07 00:49
MinceRgovernments should not existOct 07 00:51
scientesMinceR, my grandfather had to declare "I am not an anarchist" to get US CitizenshipOct 07 00:52
scientesit was actually quite a thread at the start of the 20th centuryOct 07 00:52
scientes*threatOct 07 00:52
scientesto governments that isOct 07 00:52
MinceRnot worth itOct 07 00:53
scientesSouth America shows that bus transportation is best done privatelyOct 07 00:53
scientesMinceR, otherwise he would have been dead in RussiaOct 07 00:53
MinceRbeing ruled by Agent Orange and being fleeced by that government wherever you goOct 07 00:53
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MinceRwere there no other countries?Oct 07 00:54
XRevan86scientes: Was he an anarchist? :)Oct 07 00:54
scientesJewOct 07 00:54
XRevan86scientes: Yes, I remember. My question standsOct 07 00:55
scientesheheheOct 07 00:56
scientesThis movie is much more obviously anti-communist than the bookOct 07 00:57
scientesas it is creating straw-men to make ridicule communismOct 07 00:57
XRevan86scientes: Which?Oct 07 00:57
scienteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJOaW-MviVkOct 07 00:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Animal Farm (1954 film) - YouTubeOct 07 00:58
XRevan86ahOct 07 00:58
scientesits almost trying to conflate hippies and communistsOct 07 00:58
XRevan86What I noticed about it is it's emphasised how some owners are adorable kind farmersOct 07 00:59
scientesthis was the height of the cold warOct 07 01:01
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux 5.4 Radeon Performance Rises Slightly Higher With Bulk Moves Enabled http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128965 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d774be47-51f9-459d-be65-6ca139d7210c]Oct 07 01:04
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schestowitzXRevan86: that report is in RussianOct 07 01:28
XRevan86schestowitz: Alas I couldn't find it in English.Oct 07 01:29
schestowitzWork in progress: #FreeSoftware FederationOct 07 01:30
schestowitz http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Free_Software_Federation #freesw Oct 07 01:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Free Software Federation - TechrightsOct 07 01:30
schestowitzXRevan86: important?Oct 07 01:30
XRevan86schestowitz: It brought up some interesting stuffOct 07 01:31
XRevan86Like a famous doctor Roshal' stated that he cannot back this up because who's going to help children while their fighting for no mold and minimum wage salariesOct 07 01:32
XRevan86* they're fightingOct 07 01:33
XRevan86So egotistic of them child cancer surgeonsOct 07 01:33
scientesas these cancers terminal?Oct 07 01:33
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scientes*areOct 07 01:34
*schestowitz started reading "cancers" as cancerdOct 07 01:34
*schestowitz blames MinceROct 07 01:34
XRevan86scientes: It's the largest oncocentre in the countryOct 07 01:34
XRevan86scientes: If they need transplantation, then I guess soOct 07 01:35
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux 5.4-rc2 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128966 [https://pleroma.site/objects/77af7650-f612-46c0-8cb6-0caab8147786]Oct 07 01:37
XRevan86A good article on the topic would be really great. Meduza hasn't made one yet.Oct 07 01:41
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux 5.5 Staging and Linux 5.4 Misc. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128967 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ab7c611c-a036-4943-bc5a-5e4943054fc6]Oct 07 01:47
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oiaohmI have been thinking.  I think I can now make the CoC location way more clear.Oct 07 02:00
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Project Trident 19.10 Now Available http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128968 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cada7d9b-4f38-470b-8ab6-d8d98052ba64]Oct 07 02:01
oiaohmYou hear a lot of anti- Social Justice Warrior stuff.     It really simple to forget the only reason we have work place heath and safety laws is that Social Justice Warriors pushed for them. Oct 07 02:02
oiaohmQuestion can you argue under law that a open source project is not a workplace the answer is no you cannot.Oct 07 02:02
oiaohmEverything listed in the Linux kernel CoC that you are not allowed todo you are legally not allowed todo by law in a workplace due to workplace health and safety laws.Oct 07 02:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FSFE information stall on Animal Welfare Run in Vienna http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128969 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8a9eefec-4c23-4110-91d2-7c2527fb0115]Oct 07 02:03
oiaohmBut lets say a project does not have a CoC or some other policy covering same stuff and a person takes invalid complaint to the courts.   Yes they lose but the courts can still rule against the workplace mandating it closed due to being unsafe due not to having require policies.Oct 07 02:04
oiaohmA ruling against a project mandating it workplace be closed would be basically take the projects controlled items off line by court order.Oct 07 02:05
oiaohmNow having policy you have duty of care so cannot be ruled against that way.Oct 07 02:05
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Akademy 2019: new goals, new board, new president http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128970 [https://pleroma.site/objects/65161543-be50-4df3-85b4-e41a20e896d8]Oct 07 02:06
oiaohmBasically we have not been treating open source project and mailing lists as what they are legally a workplace.Oct 07 02:06
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128971 [https://pleroma.site/objects/64768778-aff0-4a87-a89c-885f85a55d09]Oct 07 02:10
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts/Shows: Ubuntu Kylin 19.10, SMLR, GNU World Order and Python Bytes http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128973 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9754a20b-ce90-40e1-958a-bb96ddfad431]Oct 07 02:17
scienteshttps://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AiaHgR0Rt54/XZHGJsdxpGI/AAAAAAAAJI4/Ch093vU-TS8JcPQgzcf58qXn0kZtIEYzwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/glumchums.jpegOct 07 02:18
scientesahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhOct 07 02:18
scienteslook at that face!Oct 07 02:19
XRevan86scientes: Not very good at hiding his emotions for an actorOct 07 02:22
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Best JavaScript Frameworks, AdaCore, LibreOffice Development and Qt 3D Studio 2.5 Beta http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128974 [https://pleroma.site/objects/36d9673f-8dd3-4ee5-a82b-d749deb75090]Oct 07 02:25
XRevan86schestowitz: But I just tied it to the Futurama quote that I found ironic many years ago and still have now.Oct 07 02:32
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XRevan86There's a systemic problem of doctors being poor.Oct 07 02:32
XRevan86and overworked and buried under bureaucracyOct 07 02:34
XRevan86There's a pattern of fighting corruption by making the lower worker do increasingly more paperwork.Oct 07 02:35
XRevan86Meanwhile the most classic of schemes with procurement remain a haven of corruption.Oct 07 02:36
scientesyepOct 07 02:37
scientesmakes senseOct 07 02:37
XRevan86Somehow corruption still sips through the cracks. Clearly not enough paperwork for workers in the field.Oct 07 02:38
scientesmeanwhile in the US you can get a 2-year degree in how to bill private health "insurance"Oct 07 02:38
oiaohmWith medical we still don't know enough.Oct 07 02:38
oiaohmSo there is a lot of paper required to be made for research reasons in medical by front line staff.Oct 07 02:38
oiaohmOf course there is other crap in there as well.Oct 07 02:39
oiaohmXRevan86: its not just normal corruption either you have people who do doctor shopping to get more drugs than they should.Oct 07 02:40
scientesThe re-emergance of PersiaOct 07 02:40
scienteswhy don't they change their name now?Oct 07 02:40
scientesIslamic Republic of PersiaOct 07 02:40
oiaohmscientes: so you are wanting to rename Iran?Oct 07 02:41
scienteswhat I'm saying is that it already happenedOct 07 02:41
oiaohmscientes: back to its old name.Oct 07 02:41
scientesthey control most of IraqOct 07 02:41
oiaohm???Oct 07 02:42
scientesand Afghanistan doesn't have a government, its mostly TalibanOct 07 02:42
scientesso de facto, PersiaOct 07 02:42
oiaohmwhere do you get that idea.Oct 07 02:42
*schestowitz finds those claims bizarreOct 07 02:42
schestowitz(KSA has fasr more vast influence geo-economically... Pakistan, Indonesia...)Oct 07 02:43
scientesthen who bombed that Saudi oil refinery?Oct 07 02:43
oiaohmIran does not control most of Iraq the boarder area between Iraq and Iran is the kurds what use to be Kurdistan in history before it got split in 3 between turkey, Iran and Iraq.Oct 07 02:43
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scientesthe kurds are in the northOct 07 02:43
scientesnot the southOct 07 02:43
oiaohmsouth section of Iraq is a different group.Oct 07 02:44
oiaohmNot iran.Oct 07 02:44
scientesi'm talking about where the iran-iraq war was foughtOct 07 02:44
scientesthe fertile areaOct 07 02:44
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oiaohmiran-iraq war was fought in the area that was  KurdistanOct 07 02:45
oiaohmIf the country of Kurdistan still was there there is no boarder between Iraq and Iran.Oct 07 02:45
scientesbut i'm talking about the southOct 07 02:45
oiaohmThe complete land boarder between Iraq and Iraq use to be kurdistan.Oct 07 02:46
oiaohmThere is no north and south about it.Oct 07 02:46
oiaohmThat iraq-iran war the kurds really got caught in the middle.Oct 07 02:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Virtualmin CPanel – Free & Open Source Web Hosting Panel http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128975 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e8d85039-61c3-4dfa-bcca-86026bbecd1e]Oct 07 02:47
oiaohmscientes: basically the only shared boarder in history while kurdistan existed between iraq and iran was a boarder at sea.Oct 07 02:48
oiaohmthe kurds from the time of kurdistan have lost a lot of territory Oct 07 02:50
oiaohmscientes: fun part kurdistan use to be there to prevent the different islamic groups in Iran and Iraq from getting into pointless wars.   So it was a basic historic peace keeper zone.Oct 07 02:52
oiaohmscientes: basically the shia Islamic should be on the iran/persia side of Kurdistan and the sunni should be in the iraq side.    But since that boarder has broken down we now have shia/sunni conflicts.    Yes the iran/iraq war in the south killed out the remaining kurds in the south.Oct 07 03:02
scientesram monsterOct 07 03:08
scienteseat eat eat eatOct 07 03:08
scientes600MB from gnome-shelOct 07 03:09
scientesand it can't be restartedOct 07 03:10
schestowitzre TR redditOct 07 03:22
schestowitzRe: Create a Reddit forum ..> Have you considered creating a Reddit forum, where we could comment onOct 07 03:22
schestowitz> tech issues. I find it easier to read contemplate and then create aOct 07 03:22
schestowitz> responce, rather than the instant responce required of IRC.Oct 07 03:22
schestowitzThat would allow Conde Nast control and censor (or self-censor) us. They already banned some subs in the past. Also, as of years ago, Reddit is proprietary.Oct 07 03:22
schestowitzSo in short, not a chance! But feel free to start one...Oct 07 03:22
schestowitzMrGreenFriend: pingOct 07 03:57
MrGreenFriendhiOct 07 03:58
schestowitzhow is your friend?Oct 07 03:58
MrGreenFriendhe's fine. i just think he has a lot more on his mindOct 07 03:59
schestowitzwill he pursue a lawsuit?Oct 07 04:00
MrGreenFriendi don't knowOct 07 04:01
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schestowitzMrGreenFriend: tell him that with document disclosure we can r refute the libel against himOct 07 04:04
schestowitzMicrosoft's Shaw selectively released some documents to bolster a false narrative, it's never too late to correct the recordOct 07 04:04
MrGreenFriendok, i willOct 07 04:06
MrGreenFriendthanks  :)Oct 07 04:06
schestowitzI really want to help as best I can...Oct 07 04:08
*schestowitz has drafts ready for a potential news part in the Lundgren seriesOct 07 04:08
MrGreenFriend♪┏(・o・)┛♪Oct 07 04:11
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MinceR07 030210 < oiaohm> You hear a lot of anti- Social Justice Warrior stuff. It really simple to forget the only reason we have work place heath and safety laws is that Social Justice Warriors pushed for them.Oct 07 07:46
MinceRwhich of the twitter outragists did that?Oct 07 07:46
oiaohmMinceR: the reality is Social Justice Warrior title existed before twitter yahoos.Oct 07 07:54
schestowitztwitter yahoos?Oct 07 07:54
schestowitzsounds like a Native American tribe...Oct 07 07:55
MinceRoiaohm: and you'd have us give up everything to anyone who uses the same title as someone who did something good once?Oct 07 07:57
oiaohmMinceR: that is what people are doing calling those yahoos on twitter and the like Social Justice Warrors.Oct 07 07:57
MinceRyes, and?Oct 07 07:58
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schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/16173371Oct 07 08:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #eff saw a boost in budget after the @snowden leaks but it went almost downhill from there; they must get leaner rather than pursue corporate cash https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/43091431Oct 07 08:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> projects.propublica.org | Electronic Frontier Foundation Inc - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublicaOct 07 08:02
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/16173398Oct 07 08:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: EFF receives 4 million dollars a year from members, which leave one wondering where the remainder (about twice that amount) comes from. The salaries aren't totally crazy; the chief nets just over $250,000 a year. And SF/Bay Area is expensive.Oct 07 08:02
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/16173409Oct 07 08:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: The main concern here is that the EFF might become a "hush organisation", attracting corporate funding in exchange for leaving these corporations alone (no criticism) or worse -- lobby for their agenda!Oct 07 08:02
schestowitz http://techrights.org/2019/10/07/eff-corporate-money/Oct 07 08:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | EFF Ought to Focus on Software Patents — Maybe EPO Scandals Too — Instead of Awarding (Publicity Stunts) and Rewarding Privacy Abusers | TechrightsOct 07 08:02
oiaohmMinceR: all the truly successful and normally high famous Social Justice Warriors are either lawyers or politician.   Like come on those I call yahoos are not like   Mahatma Gandhi or Nelson Mandela or any person who are really Social Justice Warriors.  Oct 07 08:10
MinceRso why are you confusing them with each other?Oct 07 08:12
MrGreenFriendhahaOct 07 08:12
oiaohmSo the fight for Social Justice is either done in the courts or the political landscape that is successful.   Anything else is like suffragette and large sections of the IRA..   Oct 07 08:13
MinceRit is not successful anymoreOct 07 08:13
oiaohmMinceR: I am not.  Oct 07 08:13
oiaohmReally there are still people who are fighting like the historic Social Justice Warriors using the courts and are still being successful.Oct 07 08:14
oiaohmSo your claim about not being successful any more is not true.Oct 07 08:15
MinceRdo they confuse themselves with the outragists who sabotage projects they don't contribute to?Oct 07 08:15
oiaohmThat is the point outragists are not the proper social justice people.Oct 07 08:17
oiaohmYet a lot of people give them title they don't deserve.Oct 07 08:17
MinceRthen the proper social justice people have failed to protect their brandOct 07 08:18
MinceRi haven't even heard of the title before they started poisoning our societyOct 07 08:18
MinceRand i suspect there are many people like thatOct 07 08:18
oiaohmNot exactly parties that don't want social justice have looked for every means to undermine the brand.Oct 07 08:18
oiaohmand to get people wasting there time yelling at each other instead of taking their problem to the courts or political system where real change can happen.Oct 07 08:19
MinceRreal change can't happen at the courts if you don't have rule of law, and most (if not all) states don't have rule of lawOct 07 08:20
MinceRreal change can't happen in the political system in one-party and two-party systems, and states that don't have either are rareOct 07 08:20
oiaohmNeither of those is true.Oct 07 08:20
jagadeesthe media is giving the title of Social Justice Warrior. who they think useful for them.Oct 07 08:21
MrGreenFriendDo many people (besides oiaohm) refer to  Mahatma Gandhi & Nelson Mandela: as  "SJW's"Oct 07 08:21
MinceRhe's the first i've seen do soOct 07 08:22
MinceR+toOct 07 08:22
MinceRalso, i thought the title was born of someone making fun of an outragist and the latter owning the nameOct 07 08:22
MrGreenFriendMinceR, that's what i thought, tooOct 07 08:23
oiaohmThe title of social justice warrior appears first way back in 1840s with those organizing strikes and at the end the industrial revolution.Oct 07 08:24
MinceR[citation needed]Oct 07 08:25
oiaohmThe title is way older than what either you are thinking.Oct 07 08:25
oiaohmMinceR: you are looking for the writings from 1840 by "Jesuit priest Luigi Taparelli"   Yes the warrior bit comes from the holy warrior idea.Oct 07 08:26
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, perhaps that is true about 1840, but MinceR & I are thinking about the 2010's.  Maybe the term SJW fell out of use?Oct 07 08:26
MrGreenFriend(between 1840 -> 2010)Oct 07 08:28
oiaohmIts been a funny bit of abuse by the more modern media.   Early on SJW was only for those who had died in the process of attempting to get social justice not for the living.Oct 07 08:28
oiaohmIf they did not die they had to have at least risked their real life on something that did successfully get change.Oct 07 08:29
MinceRwell, they're gone nowOct 07 08:29
MinceRhumanity is in declineOct 07 08:30
oiaohmNot really we have ones like Erin Brockovich and other in the legal field who have truly been the old define of SJW.Oct 07 08:32
oiaohmOf course the media does not find it useful to use the title correctly.Oct 07 08:32
MinceRthey'll eventually get tired of being confused with crybulliesOct 07 08:32
oiaohmExactly calling them crybullies is what they are.   How can you be for Social Justice when your are bulling a person and bulling is a direct breach of social justice.Oct 07 08:33
oiaohmCrybullies anything Social Justice undermines those who are correctly working on Social Justice.Oct 07 08:35
MrGreenFriendhmm, that is a good word, applies to more than SJW's  :)  https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cry%20bullyOct 07 08:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.urbandictionary.com | Urban Dictionary: cry bullyOct 07 08:37
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: exactly people get called SJW when they are not.   When the absolute correct term form is crybully.Oct 07 08:39
jagadeesthat kind of social justice was is that media created culture to divert people from real social justice issues.Oct 07 08:40
MrGreenFriendhmm, i think 'crybully' is more broad than the [current] "SJW". Oct 07 08:40
schestowitz[08:40] <jagadees> that kind of social justice was is that media created culture to divert people from real social justice issues.Oct 07 08:40
schestowitzcorporate issuesOct 07 08:40
schestowitzI'd rather speak of inequality, patents etc.Oct 07 08:40
oiaohmIts about time we stop giving Crybullys good term that they don't deserve .Oct 07 08:40
schestowitzThey just talk of "not enough women in IP"Oct 07 08:40
schestowitzI'm like, "do we need this IP thing? Who's it for?"Oct 07 08:41
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: really crybully covers everyone who uses social justice as excuse to be abusive.Oct 07 08:41
schestowitzit's a generlisationOct 07 08:41
schestowitzas some get tugged along with the chief tollersOct 07 08:41
schestowitzlike Sage SharpOct 07 08:41
oiaohmThose people are are not really working for social justice reforms.Oct 07 08:41
schestowitzno, they look to destory some people's careersOct 07 08:42
schestowitzit's often more akin to revengeOct 07 08:42
schestowitzand they often take out the rage on the wrong peopleOct 07 08:42
schestowitzbecause they know it gets more media publicityOct 07 08:42
schestowitzIf they pick on "small people" who are ACTUALLY revolting (racist, sexist etc.) nobody will notice or take noteOct 07 08:43
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, perhaps.  i dont watch that kind of news. thanks for the definition  :) i guess i was taking it too  literally (definition #3 in urbandictionary)Oct 07 08:43
jagadees"rage on the wrong people" that is their purpose.Oct 07 08:44
schestowitzSo the modus operandi is to stage drama to "raise awareness" of heir "causes" (i.e. their own name, self-publicity)Oct 07 08:44
jagadeesif its on correct people then they will not get attention.Oct 07 08:44
schestowitzLet Sage Sharp go ballistic on Hans ReiserOct 07 08:44
schestowitzexcept media won't care, bloggers would ignoreOct 07 08:44
oiaohmschestowitz: that is a crybully with the normal end result of the drama normally stalling out progress to real social justice by causing resistance to change.Oct 07 08:45
schestowitzyes, they hurt their causesOct 07 08:45
schestowitzunless their causes were all along shameless self-promotionOct 07 08:45
schestowitzif they suck at coding or never did anyOct 07 08:45
schestowitzthey need to get their name 'out there' some other wayOct 07 08:45
jagadeesnot all may not be like that.Oct 07 08:46
MrGreenFriendschestowitz> I'm like, "do we need this IP thing? Who's it for?"    :)Oct 07 08:46
oiaohmSage Sharp I really do see as a crybully.   I cannot list a single thing social justice change Sage has got done.   I can list a lot of taking credit for other parties work.   Oct 07 08:47
jagadeessome innocent writing their opinion. but media and gate keepers think its useful then it becomes viral.Oct 07 08:47
schestowitzoiaohm: iok, we agree on somethingOct 07 08:47
schestowitzi abhor the attacks on TsoOct 07 08:48
schestowitzdon't even get me started on Sharp insisting that Shape is a "they"Oct 07 08:49
schestowitzas if it's two people in oneOct 07 08:49
schestowitzlike people who marry themselvesOct 07 08:49
oiaohmCoraline Ada Ehmke on the other hand could in fact have the title of social justice warrior in time.   As she has in fact done stuff and is willing to work on fixing the problems.Oct 07 08:51
oiaohmWhen I say have the title I mean be properly due the title.Oct 07 08:51
oiaohmNot just given to self or by some media person because it simple.Oct 07 08:52
MinceRoh yeah, she's helping fix the problem that Linux exists and is usefulOct 07 08:53
MinceRway to go, coralineOct 07 08:53
oiaohmThere was a legal problem there that did need to be addressed.Oct 07 08:54
MinceRby destroying the project that allegedly had something to do with itOct 07 08:54
oiaohmAlso here history is one of a real documentation writer and coding.Oct 07 08:54
schestowitz"Ehmke has never contributed anything to the development of this particular software, and Schito had never said anything to or about Ehmke, nor had Schito’s opinion on transgenderism been expressed within the Opal development project. "Oct 07 08:54
MinceRoohOct 07 08:54
schestowitz[link warning: unsavoury site]Oct 07 08:55
schestowitzhttps://theothermccain.com/2018/05/30/coraline-ada-ehmke-transgender-feminist-satanic-sjw/Oct 07 08:55
MinceRdid she fix typos in comments and documentation once?Oct 07 08:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-theothermccain.com | Satanic Transgender SJW Wants to Control ‘Open Source’ Code Community : The Other McCainOct 07 08:55
MrGreenFriendschestowitz,  is this what u r referring to, or another attack?  https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Rape_apology_on_LCA_mailing_listOct 07 08:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-geekfeminism.wikia.org | Rape apology on LCA mailing list | Geek Feminism Wiki | FANDOM powered by WikiaOct 07 08:55
schestowitzMrGreenFriend: no, not thatOct 07 08:55
schestowitzthey're not the worstOct 07 08:55
MinceRoiaohm: are the other SJWs you're talking about as toxic and destructive as coraline ada ehmke?Oct 07 08:55
schestowitzthey berated Shuttleworth alsoOct 07 08:55
schestowitzbecause he said "explaining to girls/women"Oct 07 08:56
schestowitzI suppose he'd get the same for saying in a talk (informal) something like "explaining to grandma"Oct 07 08:56
schestowitz(because it's female, they don't seem  to care much about age stigma and discmination)Oct 07 08:56
MinceRthey will if they get oldOct 07 08:56
schestowitzthey you can see "explaining to young grandpa"Oct 07 08:57
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, what are better terms to use to clarify 'forced' rape, vs 'non-forced/willfull' rape?Oct 07 08:57
schestowitzbecause it's OK to mock young people and males, making them seem as dumb as Homer SimpsonOct 07 08:57
oiaohmPlease note a person can be both a SJW and a crybully.Oct 07 08:58
oiaohmThere are a lot who are just crybullies.Oct 07 08:58
oiaohmThere are a handful that are both.Oct 07 08:58
MinceRyes, because destroying free software projects microsoft doesn't wish to compete with promotes Social JusticeOct 07 08:58
MinceRright, oiaohm?Oct 07 08:58
schestowitzThe labels don't matterOct 07 08:59
MinceRschestowitz: it's ok to mock anyone for being different from the crybullyOct 07 08:59
schestowitzwe need to look at them as individualsOct 07 08:59
MinceRthey're really shitty individualsOct 07 09:00
schestowitzThe Ada troll was active lately with that ICE thingOct 07 09:00
MinceRbut who cares, most humans want their species to go extinctOct 07 09:00
schestowitzsuggesting FOSS becomes non-FOSSOct 07 09:00
schestowitzunder the guise of "ethics" of courseOct 07 09:00
MinceRso it's really in their interest to avoid developing technology which could be used to save humanityOct 07 09:00
MinceRfrom meteors and stuff like thatOct 07 09:00
oiaohmMinceR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coraline_Ada_Ehmke  it would pay to read what she is upto.   She is not stopping at software.Oct 07 09:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Coraline Ada Ehmke - WikipediaOct 07 09:01
MinceRgreat!Oct 07 09:01
MinceRshe can destroy other kinds of technology tooOct 07 09:01
oiaohmDue to being given the title "Notorious Social Justice Warrior" she fells in the right to push more crybully stunts.Oct 07 09:03
oiaohmThis is why I am fairly strict that SJW as a title we need to be way more careful with.Oct 07 09:03
oiaohmTo the point person only gets it after they are dead and their complete life can be looked at.Oct 07 09:03
insmodppaAn article of concern to Google and Chrome users, x-client-data header: https://unsearcher.org/more-on-chrome-updates-and-headersOct 07 09:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-unsearcher.org | More on Chrome updates and headers | UnsearcherOct 07 09:03
MinceRoiaohm: and your example for it is the most toxic, most destructive crybullyOct 07 09:04
MinceRvery convincing!Oct 07 09:04
oiaohmMinceR: and a very good reason not to give out the SJW title carelessly.Oct 07 09:04
MinceRoiaohm: i was being sarcastic.Oct 07 09:04
oiaohmWhy be sarcastic.   Why is she not called out for being a crybully when that is what she has done.Oct 07 09:06
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, i think reverting the current SJW definition, back to the 1840's version,  is a big uphill battle.. even if u are technically correctOct 07 09:06
MinceRoiaohm: you should revisit that question when you think about what OS you should switch to because the systemd/Linux you're using is so insecure and so unstable it's seriously impeding your ability to get work doneOct 07 09:07
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, maybe instead think of a better term for Nelson Mandela?Oct 07 09:07
MinceRMrGreenFriend: if coraline ada ehmke is an "SJW" then SJW means the exact same thing as crybullyOct 07 09:08
MinceRthere is nothing to changeOct 07 09:08
oiaohmMinceR: she has done something things that could give the title.Oct 07 09:08
MrGreenFriendMinceR, that's what i mean, it is too late:  the 1840's definition is long goneOct 07 09:08
MinceRs/insecure and so unstable/insecure, so unstable and so inflexible/Oct 07 09:09
jagadeeswe can call them corporate SJWOct 07 09:09
oiaohmMinceR: but by the 1980 rules the crybully actions would void the title.Oct 07 09:09
oiaohmMinceR: because they are not a good role model.Oct 07 09:09
MinceRoiaohm: if you add one spoonful of sewage to a barrel of water, what do you get?Oct 07 09:09
oiaohmMinceR: also I have looked at what OS I can move to after Linux.Oct 07 09:10
MrGreenFriendBSD?Oct 07 09:10
jagadeesor social justice distractorsOct 07 09:10
MinceRoiaohm: will you also cheer the SJWs on who will destroy that OS too?Oct 07 09:11
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: Nelson Mandelo did coin a new term.       Social Justice Hero what is basically the old 1840 social justice warror.Oct 07 09:12
oiaohmMinceR: the reality is if we don't correct the legal system there will be no where to go.Oct 07 09:13
MrGreenFriendoiaohm,  well, that is betterOct 07 09:14
jagadeesthese so called SJW what they really achieved? in the case of MIT girl what she got as a result of her war? Oct 07 09:15
oiaohmMinceR: really yelling about crybullies get us no where.     They cannot by legal means destory a OS without the law.Oct 07 09:16
jagadeesstallman was fired.Oct 07 09:16
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, until 'SJH' is misappropriated  ;)Oct 07 09:16
jagadeesdoes she achieved social justice by that?Oct 07 09:16
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: we really do need to try to protect SJH this time around.Oct 07 09:16
MrGreenFriend :)Oct 07 09:16
jagadeesso they are just social justice distractorsOct 07 09:16
oiaohmThe law stuff is a bigger problem if it activates as that can be like servers ceased and delete and other horrible bad things.Oct 07 09:17
jagadeesbut pls dont attack them directly saying bad people etc. that makes them more sympathy. and more distraction.Oct 07 09:17
MrGreenFriendWhy did stallman 'resign', instead of forcing them to fire him? i probly missed ur discussion on this,  is there an IRC link to it?Oct 07 09:19
jagadeescapitalistic system is full of injustice. so lot of social injustice will be there. not a single person can solve all the issues. so we have to work tactically. if the person is not too bad then we have leave him to fight their wars in their fields. those who dont do that is a social justice distractor.Oct 07 09:20
jagadees[those who dont allow that is a social justice distractor]Oct 07 09:21
MrGreenFriendhow *exactly* did they "force" him?... RMS is most stubborn person to resign without a fightOct 07 09:21
jagadeesyesOct 07 09:21
jagadeesthat also make lot of confusion.Oct 07 09:22
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/17/20870050/richard-stallman-resigns-mit-free-software-foundation-epstein   the more you read on it there was a lot of bad things going on inside MIT.Oct 07 09:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | Richard Stallman resigns from MIT over Epstein comments - The VergeOct 07 09:22
jagadeeswhat on earth that can force rmsOct 07 09:22
jagadeesIts a shameful thing that we need whistleblowers in FSFOct 07 09:23
jagadeeswhy things are not transparentOct 07 09:23
oiaohmThat the problem MIT stuff got really not transparent like lieing on internal records to hide that dontations had come from epstein.Oct 07 09:24
jagadeesMIT is okOct 07 09:24
oiaohmRMS knew the records were false.Oct 07 09:25
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, yes, i read that and his exact quotes.  but that is not enough to "force" him.Oct 07 09:25
MrGreenFriendi.e. what would have happened to him, if RMS did not resign?Oct 07 09:25
jagadeesits just unethical instition founded by a slave owner and funded by US military responsible for killing innocent people for last 300+ years,Oct 07 09:25
jagadeesbut what about FSFOct 07 09:25
jagadeesthey should reject rms's resignation letterOct 07 09:26
jagadeesend of the story. so simple was that.Oct 07 09:26
jagadeesnow they put all under confusion and division.Oct 07 09:27
oiaohmjagadees: from business point of view with what had happened MIT its would be very hard to RMS to claim that he would handle issues correctly with FSF.Oct 07 09:27
oiaohmIts not a outcome we like.Oct 07 09:27
jagadeesMIT want a scapegoat to distract  public attention from them. thats all.Oct 07 09:28
oiaohmReally no one should be faking donation records or commenting on a ongoing investigation. Oct 07 09:28
oiaohmIf you know about faking of records you should have complained in meetings and had it recorded.Oct 07 09:28
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oiaohmjagadees: this case MIT is not the scapegoat they are where the big screw up happened starting the domino effect.Oct 07 09:29
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jagadeesi was saying RMS was scapegoatOct 07 09:29
jagadeesused by MITOct 07 09:30
jagadeesthey are the criminalsOct 07 09:30
oiaohmRMS was allowed to resign from MIT.   Other parties were not allowed to resign and were dismissed with super and other payments claimed.Oct 07 09:31
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MrGreenFriendoiaohm, so if RMS didnt resign, what would have happened to him?Oct 07 09:31
oiaohmThis stuff comes a domino effect where all those involved get hit.Oct 07 09:32
oiaohmeven if you were just on the outer edges.Oct 07 09:32
jagadeeswhat about harvard? did somebody resigned?Oct 07 09:32
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oiaohmMrGreenFriend: we don't know what the internal debates on that if it would have just been fired or would have been super and other things ceased.Oct 07 09:33
jagadeesin 2006 same same person came under US judicial systemOct 07 09:33
jagadeeswhat they did?Oct 07 09:33
jagadeesi wrote it here: https://neritam.wordpress.com/2019/10/01/things-we-miss-while-punishing-richard-stallman/Oct 07 09:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-neritam.wordpress.com | Things we miss while punishing Richard Stallman – neritamOct 07 09:33
jagadeesAlan Dershowitz and Steven Pinker helped him to get a plea dealOct 07 09:34
MinceRoiaohm: there is somewhere to go: anonymity. but only if one doesn't put a CoC in one's projects.Oct 07 09:34
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, what do u mean by "super"?Oct 07 09:35
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: I am thinking from australian system on super as in "superannuation"  Oct 07 09:36
jagadeesno MIT or Harvard girl SJD became upset with thatOct 07 09:36
jagadeesstill not upsetOct 07 09:36
oiaohmRMS did write a defencive arguement to Epstein actions that was not in alignment with USA law.Oct 07 09:37
jagadeesand no event organized asking their resignation.Oct 07 09:37
oiaohmThat also rules you out from management positions.Oct 07 09:37
jagadeesrms did nothing wrong.Oct 07 09:37
jagadeesthese idiots in FSF did all wrongOct 07 09:38
MinceRrms did something wrong: he promoted systemdOct 07 09:38
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MinceRbut the rest of the fsf did the sameOct 07 09:38
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oiaohmjagadees: no the nothing wrong is not right "Stallman said that “the most plausible scenario” was that Epstein’s victim “presented herself to [Marvin Minsky] as entirely willing.” "Stallman cast doubt over the use of the term “sexual assault”" Stallman also described the distinction between a 17 or 18 year old victim as a “minor” detail, and suggested that it was an “injustice” to refer to it as a “sexual assault.” Oct 07 09:39
oiaohmjagadees: that section of text Stallman wrote is not in alignment with USA law.Oct 07 09:39
jagadeeswhich lawOct 07 09:40
oiaohmjagadees: age of victom under USA law is a major detail.Oct 07 09:40
oiaohmIn management you need to process complaint that come in to the countries laws.Oct 07 09:40
jagadeesif he broke the law whether there a case charged against him?Oct 07 09:41
oiaohmIf he was up on what he should have known as FSF president he should not have written that.Oct 07 09:41
oiaohmIts not exactly broke law.  Its shown self as not suitable for role.Oct 07 09:41
jagadeesdoes that law defines that telling something against it in public is a criminal offense Oct 07 09:42
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, that is the whole issue.  not just with this law, but many:  they 'redefine' crimes always to have a broader definition, than originally.  U being Mr. 1840's Vocabulary, should agree with that problem  ;)Oct 07 09:42
MinceRooh, casting doubt must be a really serious offenseOct 07 09:42
jagadeesif he break that law then only it becames crimeOct 07 09:42
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, "Piracy, theft, trafficking, assault" etc  have all had their definitions broadenedOct 07 09:43
oiaohmMinceR: when your job is management that means managing events like complaints you are not a defense person you are a prosecutor Oct 07 09:43
MinceRin any case, i'm pretty sure someone who fails to protect the freedom of computer users is suitable to lead a foundation which also fails to protect the freedom of computer usersOct 07 09:43
MinceRoiaohm: no, that's for juristsOct 07 09:43
oiaohmMinceR: judge is allowed to make calls without jurist.   Management in a company is allowed to make calls without jurists.Oct 07 09:44
jagadeeshe should only have to defend use's freedomOct 07 09:44
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jagadeesnot all other public issuesOct 07 09:45
MinceRoiaohm: lawyers and prosecutors are supposed to be juristsOct 07 09:45
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, RMS  agrees with the 1840 definition of 'sexual assualt'Oct 07 09:45
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jagadeeswhat he think doent matterOct 07 09:45
oiaohmMrGreenFriend:  1840 define was over 21. so no.Oct 07 09:46
jagadeesdoes he defends users. thats all importantOct 07 09:46
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: the age of consent has moved around alot Oct 07 09:46
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, 21?  citation please  :)Oct 07 09:47
jagadeesif rms has wrong idea about climate science do we ask for his resignation?Oct 07 09:47
jagadeesthe only right ethical thing that we can do is just tell him what is right and request him to change his beliefOct 07 09:48
jagadeesthat all his decisionOct 07 09:48
jagadeesfor that he cannot be firedOct 07 09:49
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/age-of-consent-by-country/  this is current and you can see its from 11-21 depending on what country you are in.  Back in the 1980s it was 21 for your self but your parrents could grant consent for you youngerOct 07 09:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-worldpopulationreview.com | NO TITLEOct 07 09:49
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: opps 1980 I don't know why I am typing that I meant 1840.Oct 07 09:49
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: Portugal is still running the old laws.Oct 07 09:49
oiaohmjagadees: having the wrong idea of climate science at this stage does not equal possibly covering up a crime that is a felony.      That the problem sexual assault is a felony class crime having the wrong idea on it means you can be investigate for possible aiding and betting the crime.  Oct 07 09:52
oiaohmjagadees: that investigation is more strict on those in management roles.Oct 07 09:53
oiaohmjagadees: with possible powers to hide things.Oct 07 09:53
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: that thing before getting married of going and asking the father for permission when the age of consent was higher was not for show as it is now.   Yes a lot of the history ones were done in writing with seal.Oct 07 09:55
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, it sounds like you were around in the 1840's  :)Oct 07 09:56
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MrGreenFriendoiaohm,  how do u know so much about history?Oct 07 09:57
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: done a lot of steam punk stuff.Oct 07 09:57
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: so you study that section of history a lot.Oct 07 09:57
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, hmm, i think it is exaggerated:  i.e.  *every* generation *always* says the next generation i too much into rock&roll/sex/partying/drugs/etcOct 07 10:00
MrGreenFriends/i too/is tooOct 07 10:00
MrGreenFriendand it's always tough for the younger generation to refute, because they weren't around since the 1840's, like you  ;)Oct 07 10:02
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oiaohmMrGreenFriend: if you go through history there are times of lots of partying and times of very strict prohibition.Oct 07 10:40
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: neither really works.Oct 07 10:40
MrGreenFriendhaha,  thought i scared everyone away with my partying comments.  "Those damn kids and their rock&roll!"  ;)Oct 07 10:42
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oiaohmI like one of my history researching friends I know who said its like puffy pants vs tight fitting pants.Oct 07 10:44
oiaohmNeither one is good to wear yet for some reason at some point of history that was the normal.Oct 07 10:44
oiaohmLooking at history shows a lot of stupid human logic.Oct 07 10:45
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MrGreenFriendoiaohm, https://i.imgur.com/NF0xZMf.pngOct 07 11:00
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: that is kind of true.  History of piracy at sea has stupid things like water down rum to the point it was basically water being offered as rum only flavoured by the barrel.Oct 07 11:04
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: so piracy is not always shot the person sometimes it being highly deceptive.Oct 07 11:05
oiaohmIn historic times.Oct 07 11:05
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: most of copyright law is written in the 15 century with the invention of the printing press in Europe Oct 07 11:08
oiaohmOf course that getting very long in the tooth.Oct 07 11:08
MrGreenFriendhttp://ninapaley.com/mimiandeunice/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ME_110_ThouShaltNotSteal-640x199.pngOct 07 11:09
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: https://www.bbc.co.uk/copyrightaware/article-5955  the first copyright law was so that printing press owners could not copy a authors work and pay them nothing.Oct 07 11:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bbc.co.uk | BBC - What is Copyright - History of copyright - CopyrightOct 07 11:11
oiaohmYet we allow companies to take the rights of their staff these days.Oct 07 11:12
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, yes, i remember reading that.  it made a lot more senseOct 07 11:13
oiaohmMrGreenFriend: History of copyright shows how a laws can get slowly step by step in favour of companies instead of humans it was meant to protect.Oct 07 11:13
oiaohmI alway say with patents and copyright they should not be transferable.  They should always own to the person who did the work.Oct 07 11:14
MrGreenFriendoiaohm, "Regulatory Capture".   great termOct 07 11:14
MrGreenFriendhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_captureOct 07 11:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Regulatory capture - WikipediaOct 07 11:16
MrGreenFriendhttps://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Regulatory_captureOct 07 11:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.mises.org | Regulatory capture - Mises Wiki, the global repository of classical-liberal thoughtOct 07 11:16
oiaohmExactly it happens a lot.Oct 07 11:16
oiaohmYou could say the CoC stuff in the Linux kernel is coming out of Regulatory Capture.Oct 07 11:18
oiaohmOf course  most people are not noticing that.Oct 07 11:19
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superkuh...Oct 07 16:01
superkuhFSF sounds like it decided to commit suicide.Oct 07 16:02
superkuhThat's a damn shame.Oct 07 16:02
schestowitzit does sound oddOct 07 16:02
schestowitzthe way phoronix put it alsoOct 07 16:02
schestowitz[15:12] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊): FSF Is Re-Evaluating Its Relationship With The GNU http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/128976#comment-21926 #gnu is far more important than #fsf - GNU is the GPL, all the software... FSF just the 'shell' [https://pleroma.site/objects/e60d84d3-5637-452d-8503-db5b781a982f]Oct 07 16:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | FSF and GNU | Tux MachinesOct 07 16:03
schestowitz[15:13] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊): FSF without GNU would be nothing. They need to work things out. Let RMS back on the Board. Apologise to him too (for flippant reaction). It's B Kuhn who should step down. He cannot and does not speak for FSF/GNU. [https://pleroma.site/objects/c5c65fac-7bdd-49f3-a8af-0b7c232c1ac2]Oct 07 16:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | PleromaOct 07 16:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | PleromaOct 07 16:03
schestowitzremember what was done to Stallman's blogOct 07 16:03
schestowitzfalsely claiming, at least twice, in his own name, that he resigned from GNUOct 07 16:03
schestowitzWe never got an explanation of what happened thereOct 07 16:03
superkuhRight. The "someone in FSF on the hosting side having a hissy-fit" would certainly fit.Oct 07 16:07
schestowitzor someone he auhorised in the pastOct 07 16:07
schestowitznot necessarily the host or the FSFOct 07 16:08
schestowitzkaniini had some thoughts about it and it was debated here for hoursOct 07 16:08
schestowitzB Kuhn could not poison RMS (and get away with it), so he used the SFC site to poison people’s minds insteadOct 07 16:10
schestowitz#zdnet troll du jour: "Linus Torvalds isn't worried about Microsoft taking over Linux"Oct 07 16:13
schestowitzYes, you know who wrote that http://techrights.org/2019/10/05/media-hostile-towards-software-freedom/Oct 07 16:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Slow Death of Technical Media | TechrightsOct 07 16:13
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superkuhBleh. Looks like the Guix people are buying into the media circus re: GNU too. https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/Oct 07 17:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-guix.gnu.org | Joint statement on the GNU Project — 2019 — Blog — GNU GuixOct 07 17:08
a1batross>GNU ClasspathOct 07 17:11
a1batrossOh, I see, even undead rebelled against RMS?Oct 07 17:12
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XRevan86https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/Oct 07 17:43
schestowitzlook at the namesOct 07 17:43
schestowitzit's the people who have long had grips with RMSOct 07 17:43
schestowitzhardly all gnu devsOct 07 17:44
XRevan86> Stallman’s behavior over the years has undermined a core value of the GNU project: the empowerment of all computer usersOct 07 17:44
XRevan86Pretty vague, but it is visible what's implied.Oct 07 17:45
scienteshaha, only 18 devsOct 07 17:45
scientes> Werner Koch Oct 07 17:45
scientesthe asshole that did pay-to-merge for my gnupg patchesOct 07 17:45
scientesand GNUpg isn't even a GNU project anymoreOct 07 17:46
scientesIan Lance Taylor  howeverOct 07 17:46
scienteshe is quite accomplishedOct 07 17:46
MrGreenFriendXRevan86, yes, rather Vague statementOct 07 17:46
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/1181172103963430916Oct 07 17:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@FOSSpatents: @schestowitz Just like you, I doubt that Bradley Kuhn's work has truly benefited the Free Software cause on the bot… https://t.co/Yx3MdiGtrQOct 07 17:48
schestowitz"Just like you, I doubt that Bradley Kuhn's work has truly benefited the Free Software cause on the bottom line. He does have an agenda, but it doesn't seem to be RMS's vision. And on the few occasions that I've read his comments on legal cases, I was underwhelmed by his "logic.""Oct 07 17:49
kaniinibkuhn is a GPL maximalist, even beyond that of RMSOct 07 17:50
XRevan86TODO: Find out what exactly did mattl do for GNU social.Oct 07 17:50
kaniinii can tell you all about itOct 07 17:51
kaniinibecause it's basically the footnote to how Pleroma got startedOct 07 17:52
XRevan86And even if his contribution is larger than I realise, didn't he quit?Oct 07 17:52
kaniiniwellOct 07 17:52
kaniinihe is such an effective managerOct 07 17:52
kaniinithat Pleroma is a thing nowOct 07 17:52
kaniinisoOct 07 17:52
kaniinii meanOct 07 17:52
kaniinii am just saying :)Oct 07 17:53
kaniinibut he is not 100% to blame for the failure of GNU Social / GNU.ioOct 07 17:53
XRevan86kaniini: Are you sure you're not confusing with MMN-o?Oct 07 17:53
XRevan86who did the codingOct 07 17:53
kaniiniXRevan86: MMN-o did the coding, mattl was the project managerOct 07 17:53
kaniiniof "GNU.io"Oct 07 17:53
kaniiniwhich encompassed GNU Social and GNU FMOct 07 17:53
kaniinimattl did code GNU FMOct 07 17:53
XRevan86kaniini: MMN-o got to be a bottleneck for many MRs since he got busier.Oct 07 17:54
kaniinithere's more to it than thatOct 07 17:54
XRevan86kaniini: How did mattl cause Pleroma to be?Oct 07 17:54
kaniiniso, initially there were no plans for Pleroma to be a thingOct 07 17:55
kaniinihmmOct 07 17:55
kaniiniactually lets rewind a little furtherOct 07 17:55
kaniinimaybe i should write a blog about thisOct 07 17:55
kaniinibut there are basically two things that happenedOct 07 17:55
kaniinii am sure everyone here is familiar with the diaspora social networkOct 07 17:55
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XRevan86kaniini: MMN-o's inactivity caused postActiv and PixelfedOct 07 17:57
kaniiniso, the original people who started Pleroma, were originally working on Diaspora.  but Diaspora Foundation decided to put efforts on a "meme making website"Oct 07 17:57
scientes"Diaspora Foundation decided to put efforts on a "meme making website""Oct 07 17:57
scienteslawlOct 07 17:57
kaniinithis is no shit.  it's a thing that happenedOct 07 17:58
kaniinithey called it maker or some shitOct 07 17:58
XRevan86kaniini: How did they end up with a StatusNet-eque conception?Oct 07 17:58
kaniiniXRevan86: i'm getting to thatOct 07 17:58
kaniiniso, Diaspora went and did their meme making website thingOct 07 17:58
kaniiniand diaspora sat around poorly maintained for about a yearOct 07 17:59
scientesare they bathing in honey and milk now?Oct 07 17:59
kaniiniat that time, GamerGate and some other Twitter scandals occuredOct 07 17:59
scientesyou mean manufactured outrageOct 07 17:59
kaniiniand so there was interest in GNU SocialOct 07 17:59
kaniiniso the group of people who were still working on diaspora thoughtOct 07 18:00
kaniiniwhat if we made GNU Social have the features diaspora hasOct 07 18:00
kaniiniand so, there were some discussions with mattl & MMN-oOct 07 18:00
kaniiniabout adding some missing featuresOct 07 18:00
kaniiniwell, that did not work out so greatOct 07 18:01
kaniiniand so Pleroma was started, initially as a replacement interface and GNU Social pluginOct 07 18:01
XRevan86kaniini: Why not contribute to Qvitter?Oct 07 18:01
kaniinibut it became pretty clear that the GNU Social codebase was not very good, and mattl nor MMN-o wanted to put much resources into refactoring itOct 07 18:01
XRevan86that was all Qvitter is tooOct 07 18:02
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kaniiniXRevan86: Qvitter has numerous design flaws and security issuesOct 07 18:02
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XRevan86Can't say I didn't suspect that…Oct 07 18:02
kaniiniand, the Qvitter author was not interested in things like groupsOct 07 18:02
scientesgeezeOct 07 18:02
scientesthe best social network is called outsideOct 07 18:02
kaniininowOct 07 18:03
kaniinithis didn't really work out, and now Pleroma is it's own thing (which is probably what should have happened to begin with, because we inherited a lot of technical debt we didn't want to begin with)Oct 07 18:04
XRevan86kaniini: Is that code for "OStatus"?Oct 07 18:04
kaniiniOStatus, the Qvitter-like UI, etcOct 07 18:04
MrGreenFriendschestowitz, "Never trust climate 'activist' politicians who fly private jets  and live a lavish lifestyle; they're a symptom of the very problem we ought to tackle"   Do you know Carlo von LynX?  https://twitter.com/italynxOct 07 18:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mobile.twitter.com | carlo von lynX (@italynX) on TwitterOct 07 18:05
MrGreenFriendhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGxjN-lfr_YOct 07 18:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-TT14 - carlo von lynX - Make Ourselves a GNU Internet - YouTubeOct 07 18:05
kaniinianywayOct 07 18:05
kaniiniFSF promised to give GNU.io initiative (GNU Social and GNU FM) fundingOct 07 18:05
kaniinibut it never really happenedOct 07 18:06
kaniinibecause RMS thought the whole thing pointlessOct 07 18:06
XRevan86kaniini: You may have noticed GNU social is practically developed outside of GNU.io right now.Oct 07 18:06
kaniiniXRevan86: yes, but  GNU Social is already deadOct 07 18:06
XRevan86omaiwa shindeyruOct 07 18:07
MrGreenFriendschestowitz, i would love to see you debate him on that point:  he thinks it is fine for those Global Warming celebrities/politicians to fly on private jets.   otherwise he is a smart guy  :)Oct 07 18:07
XRevan86kaniini: NANIOct 07 18:07
kaniiniXRevan86: it is true and you know itOct 07 18:07
kaniinipostActiv is also dead, but this is arguably a good thingOct 07 18:07
kaniinii will take credit for that, tooOct 07 18:08
kaniinigladlyOct 07 18:08
XRevan86kaniini: Why you?Oct 07 18:08
XRevan86maiyannah has personal problems and stuff.Oct 07 18:08
kaniiniwell, it wasn't just me, but we locked Maiyannah out of any possible way of making traction (either in standards or just in a ground game)Oct 07 18:08
kaniiniand this is really a positive thingOct 07 18:08
XRevan86she didn't even restore her instance when an HDD corruption brought it downOct 07 18:09
kaniinibut GNU Social 2.0 is too little, too lateOct 07 18:09
kaniinianyway, back to the main topicOct 07 18:10
kaniiniXRevan86: mattl's responsibility was to ensure that GNU Social had a ground gameOct 07 18:10
kaniiniFSF was supposed to do a campaignOct 07 18:11
kaniiniagainst proprietary services like facebook and twitterOct 07 18:11
kaniinibut it never materializedOct 07 18:11
kaniiniand this campaign was supposed to be the thing that sparked momentum for GNU.io initiativeOct 07 18:12
kaniiniso that should hopefully explain his role in GNU Social effectivelyOct 07 18:13
kaniinias for why postActiv is bad, and why it is a good thing that it never got traction, we can talk about it, but basically it comes down to three key pointsOct 07 18:14
kaniini- OStatus is absolute shitOct 07 18:14
kaniini- postActiv had even more dubious security decisions than GNU SocialOct 07 18:14
kaniini- Maiyannah was against making forward progress because she saw it as pointlessOct 07 18:15
schestowitzMrGreenFriend: I know gnunetOct 07 18:15
schestowitznot that personOct 07 18:15
kaniinibut yes, i will openly admit that the fediverse development community colluded to kill postActivOct 07 18:16
kaniinishe is completely right with that assertion -- we didOct 07 18:17
kaniiniusing techniques invented by RMS himselfOct 07 18:17
MrGreenFriendschestowitz, u would probably like him. he is a good guy.  which is why it would be an interesting debate :)Oct 07 18:17
kaniinifree software is an ugly affair sometimesOct 07 18:17
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MrGreenFriendschestowitz, https://investors.com/politics/editorials/climate-change-hypocrisy-goes-mainstream  "look at people like DiCaprio and Al Gore and countless others and conclude that if the popes of climate change don't have to change their lifestyles to fight global warming, why should we?"Oct 07 18:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.investors.com | Climate Change Hypocrisy Goes Mainstream | Investor's Business DailyOct 07 18:20
kaniinial gore flies on regular planes, drives a tesla and has solar panelsOct 07 18:21
kaniinii wouldn't say that he is doing nothingOct 07 18:22
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kaniiniyou are citing a publication operated by right-wing bankersOct 07 18:22
kaniinithis is like the definition of fake newsOct 07 18:22
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MrGreenFriendkaniini, how is it different than schestowitz's twitter quote above?Oct 07 18:24
kaniiniMrGreenFriend: i would say that al gore *is* the pope of climate changeOct 07 18:24
MrGreenFriendkaniini, yes, and Al Gore's carbon-footprint is bigger than most people, hence the hypocrisyOct 07 18:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/129003 [https://pleroma.site/objects/02747975-5ce7-4869-bd07-2588fe5456d0]Oct 07 18:26
kaniinihow is it bigger than most people?Oct 07 18:26
kaniinihe travels around the world giving presentationsOct 07 18:26
kaniinii think it is okOct 07 18:26
kaniinithis is also deflection from business responsibilityOct 07 18:27
kaniini100 businesses are responsible for the overwhelming majority of carbon emissionsOct 07 18:27
kaniiniXRevan86: also tbhOct 07 18:28
kaniiniXRevan86: GNU Socialites should be happy postActiv is deadOct 07 18:29
MrGreenFriendkaniini, https://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline__699w__no_aspect/public/greenhouse_DRUPAL_copyedited-01.png?itok=hNUV4xGcOct 07 18:31
MrGreenFriendkaniini, if there is a better list on how to reduce ur carbon footprint, send me link pleaseOct 07 18:32
schestowitzthe letter is from "rebel GNU"Oct 07 18:32
schestowitzthey are few among hundreds of active ones and thousands overallOct 07 18:32
kaniiniMrGreenFriend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GuillotineOct 07 18:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Guillotine - WikipediaOct 07 18:32
schestowitzI know some of their names, their dissent against RMS is not new, only the letter is newOct 07 18:33
kaniini> rebel GNUOct 07 18:33
XRevan86kaniini: Whatever, you didn't really kill either way.Oct 07 18:33
XRevan86kaniini: I remember your heated discussions %)Oct 07 18:33
schestowitzkaniini: like "rbel Tory"Oct 07 18:34
XRevan86kaniini: They were way after maiyannah stopped committing code.Oct 07 18:34
schestowitzwhat they call here the Conservatives against BrexitOct 07 18:34
XRevan86kaniini: She kept talking about her plans, what she wants to code, but she never did.Oct 07 18:34
schestowitzLogical politicians = "rebels"Oct 07 18:34
MrGreenFriendkaniini, huh? wouldn't more legalized contraception be better than the Guillotine?  or maybe i missed ur jokeOct 07 18:34
kaniiniMrGreenFriend: you use the guillotine on the CEO of ExxonOct 07 18:35
kaniini(:Oct 07 18:35
kaniiniXRevan86: given that her plans included "using Smarty PHP templates" in this decade, this is probably a positive thingOct 07 18:37
XRevan86kaniini: Is that something like Twig?Oct 07 18:41
kaniiniSmarty PHP templates is a security vulnerability masquerading as a template engineOct 07 18:42
kaniinior put differently, "Add millions of 0day to your app with this one trick!!!!"Oct 07 18:42
XRevan86kaniini: Sounds like literally the opposite of what templating is for in PHP.Oct 07 18:45
XRevan86kaniini: How come though?Oct 07 18:45
kaniiniXRevan86: it uses `eval` to compile the templatesOct 07 18:46
XRevan86kaniini: I see.Oct 07 18:47
XRevan86kaniini: I guess it's older than the introduction of lambdas in PHP, and never switchedOct 07 18:49
kaniinino :)Oct 07 18:49
kaniiniyou don't seeOct 07 18:49
*XRevan86 doesn't see.Oct 07 18:50
kaniinismarty uses regex to turn the template into arbitary php codeOct 07 18:50
kaniiniit also does it's own variable bindingOct 07 18:50
kaniinithusly, you can break out and execute arbitrary php codeOct 07 18:51
XRevan86kaniini: I didn't see. That's even worse %)Oct 07 18:51
kaniinias i said, a security vulnerability masquerading as a template engineOct 07 18:51
kaniiniwhich is why it is good that postActiv did not go anywhereOct 07 18:51
kaniinibecause she rewrote several parts of gnu social to use itOct 07 18:51
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schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9ngeRNqDqe355fTrpAOct 07 19:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | PleromaOct 07 19:16
schestowitz" hi Dr. Roy, I admired your Techrights blog for long time. I really like how you collected historical proofs about Microsoft hostilities against free software community. No other blog I know gives what Techrights gives for me. Thanks, I learned a lot. Greetings!"Oct 07 19:16
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MinceRhttp://existentialcomics.com/comic/211Oct 07 21:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-existentialcomics.com | Social Contract Theory: The Game - Existential ComicsOct 07 21:04
MinceRhttp://existentialcomics.com/comic/212Oct 07 21:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-existentialcomics.com | Sherlock Hume - Existential ComicsOct 07 21:11
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MinceRhttps://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aPR9oZn_460swp.webpOct 07 21:23
XRevan86MinceR: must be distilled petrolOct 07 21:26
XRevan86distilled distilled distilled distilled distilled distilled distilled distilled distilled distilled petrolOct 07 21:26
XRevan86or how many times they do itOct 07 21:26
XRevan86a hundred?Oct 07 21:26
XRevan86MinceR: This joke fails to point out that it's not water that's supposed to help against the fireOct 07 21:27
MinceRit's diluted to the point where not even a single hydrocarbon molecule is present in the waterOct 07 21:28
XRevan86By the way, in their dogma petrol can really work against fireOct 07 21:30
XRevan86undistilled literal oneOct 07 21:30
XRevan86it's just that distilling *increases* its potencyOct 07 21:30
MinceRthat's hilariousOct 07 21:31
XRevan86I forgot how they explain distillation making things more potentOct 07 21:31
MinceRconsidering that they choose poisons that cause the opposite of what they wantOct 07 21:31
XRevan86MinceR: That's what happens when you base your medicine on a proverb.Oct 07 21:32
XRevan86"fight fire with fire"Oct 07 21:33
XRevan86MinceR: Homeopathy is really kind of amazing.Oct 07 21:34
XRevan86It makes absolutely no sense on any level.Oct 07 21:34
MinceR:>Oct 07 21:34
XRevan86Even the Flat Earth Hypothesis can at least make one wonder for two minutes.Oct 07 21:34
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XRevan86Yet somehow it's still around. Either because hoomans don't even try to look up the rationale and just assume there is a sensible one. Or because modern homeopaths learnt how to technobabble their bullshit.Oct 07 21:38
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XRevan86As I understand it, some doctors value homeopathy for being almost perfect placebo that they can prescribe patients to appear helpful, when they fear the patient will instead try something worse than useless.Oct 07 21:45
XRevan86Homeopathy: better than drinking your own urine. Yay.Oct 07 21:45
XRevan86I've heard that homeopaths in Russia in the 90s used to put antibiotics in the pills, so that's not absolutely true. So under that label can hide medicine that dodged any scrutiny.Oct 07 21:47
MrGreenFriendXRevan86, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0Oct 07 21:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-That Mitchell and Webb Look: Homeopathic A&E - YouTubeOct 07 21:58
XRevan86MrGreenFriend: lolOct 07 22:01
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cubexyzprediction: in the future you will be paying monthly for windoze (and possibility your office productivity software as well)Oct 07 22:37
cubexyzwe'll see what happensOct 07 22:37
cubexyzpresent company excluded of course Oct 07 22:37
MinceRcalling m$ office "productivity software" is a serious oversellOct 07 22:38
MrGreenFriend_cubexyz: prediction: in the future you won't pay for windoze or office software   :POct 07 22:40
cubexyzI think I bought some OEM stuff in the 1990'sOct 07 22:45
cubexyzbut I was OS agnostic thenOct 07 22:45
MinceRhttps://i.imgur.com/ToqvjOA.mp4   ( https://imgur.com/gallery/Z7RskeY )Oct 07 22:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Surface tension - Album on ImgurOct 07 22:46
cubexyzOS/2, Yggdrasil, Minix, OEM WinNT (forget which one)Oct 07 22:46
MinceRhttps://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/07/30/54db12d752ae797f.jpgOct 07 23:05
sridWhat the heck is this: https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/Oct 07 23:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-guix.gnu.org | Joint statement on the GNU Project — 2019 — Blog — GNU GuixOct 07 23:17
MinceRlooks like crybully shit-stirring to meOct 07 23:18
sridA list of 20 maintainers against RMS. What's the total number of GNU maintainers?Oct 07 23:20
MinceR¯\_(ツ)_/¯Oct 07 23:20
MinceRprobably dwindlingOct 07 23:20
sridThis "collective of GNU maintainers" should go watch 12 Angry Men.Oct 07 23:23
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MinceRhttps://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/08/28/c9be954cc72ed8f9.pngOct 07 23:40
XRevan86In Soviet Russia Major Walod finds YOU^UOct 07 23:41
XRevan86* WaloďOct 07 23:41
MinceR:>Oct 07 23:41
DaemonFC[m]Apple's iTunes Plus files seem to waste tons of bits.Oct 07 23:49
DaemonFC[m]If you have enough bits to spare to bother with anything above 20 kHz, you're doing it wrong.Oct 07 23:49
MinceRit's apple. what did you expect?Oct 07 23:50

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