●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, December 09, 2020 ●● ● Dec 09 [00:05] DaemonFC[m] This new laptop seems pretty wel lbuilt. [00:05] DaemonFC[m] I haven't set it up yet. [00:07] DaemonFC[m] I wonder if they ever got Windows 10 under any sort of control, as far as the constant crashes. [00:07] DaemonFC[m] Guessing no. [00:07] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/business/thanksgiving-gasoline-demand/index.html [00:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Americans used less gas this Thanksgiving week than any since 1997 - CNN [00:08] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: US gasoline consumption was the lowest for the week of Thanksgiving since 1997. [00:08] DaemonFC[m] Looks like most people ignored Trump's suggestion to have mass gatherings. [00:08] tr_guest|44886 loll [00:08] DaemonFC[m] I'm not certain how Apple is even still in business. [00:09] DaemonFC[m] These M1 chips might not be bad in and of themselves. [00:09] DaemonFC[m] But their downfall will probably be lack of x86 OS and program performance. [00:09] DaemonFC[m] I mean, we're back to talking emulators and "Oh, you only lose 30% of your performance.". [00:10] DaemonFC[m] PowerPC systems could emulate an x86 environment to run Windows, but you notice the Macs only had like a 2% share of the desktop market at that point. [00:10] tr_guest|44886 i mean for most things it'll be fine [00:10] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [00:10] tr_guest|44886 and anyways some people might wait for suppport to get better [00:10] DaemonFC[m] They eventually made their way to something like 9%, and a lot of that increase was after the Intel transition and thanks to Boot Camp. [00:10] tr_guest|44886 yeah [00:11] DaemonFC[m] Apple maybe could have designed their own x86 processors. They're big enough to pull it off. [00:11] DaemonFC[m] I'm kind of wondering why they didn't go that route. [00:12] DaemonFC[m] All of the same "IP" royalties going to Intel apply to Rosetta, and that sucks. [00:12] DaemonFC[m] As far as I know, they have to license the ARM ISA by number of units shipped with it. [00:12] DaemonFC[m] Maybe they can get it done cheaper but I'm not seeing how. [00:14] DaemonFC[m] One of the Fn keys on the new ThinkBook is mapped to some sort of Lenovo support thing. [00:14] psydroid is Windows 10 still crashing all the time on new laptops? [00:14] DaemonFC[m] I wonder what the hell that key does on Linux. [00:16] MinceR probably nothing until you bind something to it [00:16] MinceR like the ThinkVantage (or Access IBM) keys [00:16] *cubexyz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [00:17] *cubexyz (~cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #techrights [00:17] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: Looks like they anticipated Windows RATs. [00:17] DaemonFC[m] There's a privacy shutter on the webcam. [00:17] MinceR RAT? [00:18] DaemonFC[m] Remote Access Trojan [00:18] MinceR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtefWOnWWk [00:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Have Some Cheese, RAT! - YouTube [00:18] DaemonFC[m] A principle at a high school was recording teenagers naked in their bedrooms at home via a RAT that the school put on their laptops; [00:18] DaemonFC[m] I think he went to prison for that. [00:19] DaemonFC[m] Sorry, Cartman.... [00:19] DaemonFC[m] I think this is the one thing being a white man can't get out of by saying "I misinterpreted the rules.". [00:38] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: x86 as Nvidia found out there are no licenses on the open market to buy. [00:38] oiaohm Nvidia had the idea at one point of making their own x86 cpu. [00:39] oiaohm This is also why Intel tried to go after qualcom for x86 emulation on arm as that gets around the patent wall around making your own x86. [00:39] oiaohm To be correct you can legally make a 486 or 586 but that it. Basically 20 year old x86 or risk running into patents. [00:42] psydroid for more alternatives to thrive x86 must die, it's been like a millstone around the semiconductor industry's head for far too long [00:42] psydroid and Windows should die along with it [00:43] oiaohm Really with Nvidia buying arm moving to arm may not be a good long term solution either. [00:45] psydroid I don't think we should move to anything in particular [00:46] psydroid we need ISA diversity and competition [00:47] psydroid although I prefer free and open instruction sets [00:47] psydroid https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive-unmatched [00:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.crowdsupply.com | HiFive Unmatched | Crowd Supply [00:48] psydroid I didn't realise the board came with 16 GB of RAM [00:49] psydroid a few more iterations and this stuff should be viable for people looking for alternatives [00:50] oiaohm psydroid: that a new update that the hifive board is 16GB instead of 8GB. [00:50] oiaohm psydroid: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=HiFive-Unmatched-16GB really recent change. [00:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SiFive's RISC-V HiFive Unmatched Upgraded To Ship With 16GB Of RAM - Phoronix [00:51] psydroid oiaohm, I noticed that, yes [00:52] *titanbiscuit has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in) [00:52] *scientes has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb1+b1 - https://znc.in) [00:53] *scientes (~scientes@2001:bc8:62c:6e::1) has joined #techrights [00:53] *titanbiscuit (~tbisk@104.200.131.166) has joined #techrights [00:54] *psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrights [00:57] Ariadne meanwhile at deploracle: https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos/ [00:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.oracle.com | Oracle Linux: A better alternative to CentOS [00:57] Ariadne thats one hell of a fucking power move ● Dec 09 [01:05] MinceR :> [01:05] MinceR Obstacle [01:12] search_social Run the following as root: [01:12] search_social curl -O https://linux.oracle.com/switch/centos2ol.sh [01:12] search_social sh centos2ol.sh [01:13] search_social reminds me of the instructions to compile firefox [01:16] psymin hehe [01:17] Ariadne its ok, curl | sh is how cpanel is deployed [01:17] Ariadne and like 90% of centos deployments are for running cpanel anyway [01:31] DaemonFC[m] Why does this 1920 x 1080 screen look so much nicer than that HiDPI one on my other laptop? [01:33] DaemonFC[m] That puts us at least to Pentium 4. [01:33] *tr_guest|44886 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [01:49] DaemonFC[m] Okay, I have the latest BIOS installed. [01:51] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: That's pretty high resolution as well. Maybe it's generally a good screen, I don't know. Resolution isn't everything. [01:53] *jaggz (~jaggz@unaffiliated/jaggz) has left #techrights ("Leaving") ● Dec 09 [02:08] *kupi (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sihatzqhydqaqspq) has joined #techrights [02:43] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [02:52] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) ● Dec 09 [03:03] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: depends on the patent system 20-21 years. So Pentium 4 is end of next year to be sure you are clear. [03:04] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: for existing designs that are open there are 486 and 586. There are no pent II or Pent III designs out there. [03:17] *tr_guest|17837 (bed751ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.190.215.81.234) has joined #techrights [03:17] *tr_guest|17837 has quit (Client Quit) [03:27] search_social are you saying that if i had a few million to spend on a slave labor shop in china i could make old pentium processors legally? [03:38] DaemonFC[m] Probably. [03:39] search_social i should get some laptops with non phone home processors while they exist [03:41] DaemonFC[m] I won't lie, this is the least amount of shitware I've seen an OEM put on a new computer. [03:41] DaemonFC[m] Trial antivirus and MS Office trial. [03:41] DaemonFC[m] Both removed. [03:42] DaemonFC[m] Several years ago, the average number of bloatware apps on a new PC was 27, and a few years before that, some were coming with 30 or 40. [03:42] DaemonFC[m] It was so bad at one point that one of those Apple ads had the PC guy in a fat suit and he says "Hold on, it's all this trial software. They packed me full of it. I can barely move.". [03:45] DaemonFC[m] But it's a business laptop with Windows 10 Pro on it, so they probably don't get away with the same junk that a lot of those bargain basement people do. [03:45] DaemonFC[m] Another thing I noticed is that Bitlocker is on by default. [03:54] oiaohm search_social: https://opencores.org/projects/v586 you would not have to 100 percent start from nothing either. [03:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-opencores.org | Overview :: v586 :: OpenCores [03:56] DaemonFC[m] BTW, I tried out Edge just for the hell of it. [03:56] search_social thanks [03:56] DaemonFC[m] It seems Microsoft has mostly managed to attract the more popular extensions from Chrome into their store. [03:57] DaemonFC[m] But there's still a setting to allow unsigned extensions in Edge and a setting to allow from other stores. [03:57] DaemonFC[m] Microsoft claims they can't vouch for the security of extensions from other stores. [03:57] DaemonFC[m] Which is the same thing Google said about Microsoft's store. ● Dec 09 [04:04] DaemonFC[m] Firefox seems to work better on Windows. [04:05] DaemonFC[m] That may just be because this is such a fast computer, but on my Yoga laptop with Linux, Firefox was still using XRENDER with basic compositing. [04:47] search_social Igalia [04:58] *kupi has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) ● Dec 09 [05:20] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [05:20] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [05:29] DaemonFC[m] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/7.0#Improvements_of_DOCX_import.2Fexport_filter [05:29] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.documentfoundation.org | LibreOffice 7.0: Release Notes - The Document Foundation Wiki [05:30] DaemonFC[m] Major improvements to Microsoft Office compatibility. [05:30] DaemonFC[m] I have no idea who would pay $299 for a license for MS Office 2019 or $69 a year for 365. [05:33] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: 2,913 [05:33] schestowitz yesterday [05:33] schestowitz what's the highest? [05:33] schestowitz I did not check in a while... [05:40] search_social schools do [05:49] DaemonFC[m] Last week I think we got a 2967 or something one day. ● Dec 09 [06:01] *tr_guest|55320 (4a831c58@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.74.131.28.88) has joined #techrights [06:01] *tr_guest|55320 has quit (Client Quit) [06:04] *TechrightsBot-tr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [06:09] *TechrightsBot-tr (~TR@199.19.78.19) has joined #techrights [06:09] TechrightsBot-tr Hello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.77 [06:23] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:35] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [06:38] schestowitz Should we write something about IBM sort of killing off CentOS? [06:43] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: May we live long and die out | http://vhemt.org/) [06:56] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights ● Dec 09 [07:11] Techrights-sec Yes, CentOS has been a major distro. [07:18] Techrights-sec Devuan and the other freedom (as in free-from-systemd) distros could be highlighted in the article. [07:22] *KREYREN has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [07:26] search_social i'm running devuan [07:32] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: Those people who took over Higan and moved it to github changed the license from GPL v3 to ISC. [07:32] schestowitz Are they the same people? [07:32] schestowitz I don't think you can fork a project with the same name, so I assume it wasn't moved [07:32] schestowitz maybe frozen development [07:33] schestowitz then a successor made for it [07:33] Techrights-sec http://cutler.io/2012/07/a-brief-history-of-red-hat-fedora-and-centos/ [07:33] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cutler.io | A brief history of Red Hat, Fedora and CentOS - Michael Cutler's personal website [07:33] DaemonFC[m] byuu seems to submit patches occasionally, but he must have given them permission to change the license. [07:33] DaemonFC[m] That's unfortunate. [07:34] schestowitz shithub is an attack on us anyway [07:34] schestowitz and that's hardly news [07:34] DaemonFC[m] I remember him saying some company that made proprietary software wanted an emulator for some retro games for modern consoles. [07:34] schestowitz Microsoft bought shithub for a reason [07:34] schestowitz they lose money on it [07:34] schestowitz but it's about control [07:34] DaemonFC[m] Wouldn't touch the GPL and didn't want to pay him for an exception. [07:37] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [07:39] Techrights-sec https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2004-May/000153.html [07:39] Techrights-sec https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/General [07:39] Techrights-sec https://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/centos-linux-project-in-trouble.html [07:39] Techrights-sec https://www.theregister.com/2009/08/02/centos_alive/ [07:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.centos.org | [Centos] CentOS-2 Final finally released [07:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.centos.org | FAQ/General - CentOS Wiki [07:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cyberciti.biz | CentOS Linux Project In Trouble - nixCraft [07:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | CentOS back from brink of death The Register [07:39] Techrights-sec https://www.cnet.com/news/centos-linux-developers-threaten-mutiny/ [07:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-CentOS Linux developers threaten mutiny - CNET [07:39] Techrights-sec https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ [07:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Blog.CentOS.org [07:40] schestowitz https://www.itwire.com/open-source/red-hat-kills-off-centos,-users-frustrated-and-angry.html [07:40] schestowitz https://www.itwire.com/open-sauce/centos-dumping-tells-us-red-hat-has-only-dollar-signs-in-its-sights.html [07:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-iTWire - Red Hat kills off CentOS; users frustrated, angry and annoyed [07:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-iTWire - CentOS dumping tells us Red Hat has only dollar signs in its sights [07:40] Techrights-sec https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/centos-stream-building-innovative-future-enterprise-linux [07:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.redhat.com | CentOS Stream: Building an innovative future for enterprise Linux [07:41] Techrights-sec http://www.redhat.com/about/news/press-archive/2014/1/red-hat-and-centos-join-forces [07:41] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.redhat.com | Red Hat and the CentOS Project Join Forces to Speed Open Source Innovation ● Dec 09 [08:39] *inky (~inky@141.136.79.29) has joined #techrights [08:42] vZS1 Debian works alright on new hardware, but you need to enable "contrib" and "non-free" in "/etc/apt/sources.list" [08:44] vZS1 Most WiFi cards have only binary blobs as drivers. [08:45] vZS1 So you kind of either need to use the blobs or use a usb WiFi module. ● Dec 09 [10:42] Ariadne i have intel wireless module and it works fine with just a firmware blob. no ndis or non-free repo needed ● Dec 09 [11:24] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [11:24] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [11:24] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [11:24] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-ajzhqwnrpcxoajpb) has joined #techrights ● Dec 09 [12:15] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [12:53] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights ● Dec 09 [13:01] *marie_antoinette (55933c82@85-147-60-130.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights [13:03] *Techrights-sec has quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) [13:03] *Techrights-sec (~quassel@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [13:06] *marie_antoinette has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [13:16] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-lzsewxepbyptjvdr) has joined #techrights [13:53] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [13:59] MinceR https://full.pr0gramm.com/2020/09/11/928023ed918caa12.jpg ● Dec 09 [14:38] MinceR http://ffn.nodwick.com/?p=2011 [14:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ffn.nodwick.com | Full Frontal Nerdity by Aaron Williams - 11/19/2019 ● Dec 09 [15:04] *birkoff has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [15:06] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-oyneuporrchudyvm) has joined #techrights [15:20] MinceR (cat) https://i.imgur.com/DNcbkvq.jpg [15:23] *notanamber (~luca@host-79-6-210-200.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #techrights [15:25] notanamber hey schestowitz I no longer see your feed on mastodon...the connection with pleroma.site on firefox fails due to ssl [15:25] notanamber are a few days... [15:28] *Livestradamus (~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus) has joined #techrights [15:52] oiaohm vZS1: to be correct most wifi drivers have binary firmware blobs. This is different to Nvidia binary blob mess. [15:52] *KREYREN has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [15:52] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [15:52] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [15:52] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [15:54] oiaohm Its also annoying how often people claim to be using firmware binary blob free and realy what they have done is built a system using the firmware blobs on the rom in the cards that is technically out of date. [15:54] MinceR out of date isn't always a bad thing [15:56] oiaohm It is when its out of date wifi using known flawed encryption without telling the user. [15:57] oiaohm Lot of wifi cards drop the on card firmware so you cannot do that stupidity. [15:57] oiaohm without running out of date drivers as well. [15:57] MinceR so they can force you to download the newest blob [15:58] MinceR or rather, provide it via a storage device, because your system can't connect to a network yet [15:58] MinceR very smart thinking! ● Dec 09 [16:01] oiaohm The firmware blob without a driver to use it in the OS in most cases totally useless. [16:02] oiaohm Most wifi vendors doing this have provide the blobs under license allowing any OS to distribute them. [16:03] oiaohm OS version is likely newer than the version that could have been writtin into flash/rom on the card. [16:03] oiaohm from the factory. [16:03] MinceR http://ffn.nodwick.com/?p=2022 [16:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ffn.nodwick.com | Full Frontal Nerdity by Aaron Williams - 12/24/2019 [16:04] MinceR and so i just plug in my Wi-Pi to do the install, and it works [16:06] oiaohm Most does if you are using like debian non-free with the blobs installed. [16:07] oiaohm I am waiting to see with driverless printing how long until we have driverless printers needing firmware updates to fix major security flaws. [16:07] MinceR should be easy with postscript [16:07] MinceR if only printer makers weren't too cheap to include postscript interpreters [16:08] oiaohm That not exactly true. [16:08] oiaohm pdf instead of postscript started happneding in cups due to need to encode color space information. [16:09] MinceR great [16:09] oiaohm It would be good if all printers supported PDF/X [16:09] oiaohm basically that is postscript + the color space stuff. [16:09] MinceR i'll never forget my D&D PDFs always failing to display the capital 'A' in a certain type of heading in any viewer except adobe's because PDF isn't really "portable" [16:10] oiaohm PDF is not just one standard. [16:10] MinceR it would be better to have a community-based extension to PS that adds the color space stuff [16:10] MinceR all of them are claimed to be "portable" by adobe, though [16:10] oiaohm PDF is a container. [16:10] MinceR PS was their final show of competence [16:10] oiaohm kind of like MP4. [16:11] oiaohm What is PDF/ is really the codec inside. [16:11] MinceR it was also a stroke of genius when they decided that in some versions of the "Portable" Document Format, there was no need to include certain fonts [16:11] MinceR "Portable"... to the computer you created it on. unless you changed the fonts. [16:12] oiaohm Made sense in the time frame of dialup to reduce document size. [16:12] MinceR kind of like microshit's "Portable" Executable [16:12] MinceR which will run on any system, as long as it's the windows version it's for. [16:12] oiaohm The biggest screw up with PDF is PDF forms. [16:12] MinceR (as long as you still have the exact same DLLs installed, that is, because they couldn't figure out how to do shared libraries properly either) [16:13] *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:13] oiaohm To be correct Linux distributions don't really do shared libraries the best either. [16:14] MinceR they do them much better than Backdoors though [16:14] oiaohm SXS in windows with its mainfests is fair in effectiveness dealing with the multi version problem. [16:15] oiaohm We are seeing Linux go the container route for the same thing. [16:15] oiaohm Apple from memory also went the container route. [16:15] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [16:15] MinceR leaving ancient library files around, hidden in subdirectories, that will never get security updates, as standard practice? [16:15] MinceR really great. [16:16] MinceR yeah, putting the version number in the filename was _really_ difficult [16:16] MinceR as was finding objects by name instead of offset or index [16:16] DaemonFC[m] The sxs folder is compressed. [16:16] MinceR even better [16:16] DaemonFC[m] So the on disk footprint isn't as big as it would seem. [16:17] MinceR leave no chance for the package manager to update anything [16:17] *inky (~inky@141.136.77.3) has joined #techrights [16:17] MinceR then there's the whole rewriting memory addresses randomly business [16:17] MinceR because position-independent code was not invented in redmond [16:23] MinceR http://ffn.nodwick.com/?p=2024 [16:23] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ffn.nodwick.com | Full Frontal Nerdity by Aaron Williams - 12/31/2019 [16:24] oiaohm Really Linux you put version number after library then you simlink libfoobar.so.1.2.3 libfoobar.so.1 then all application use the .1 verison so when you install libfoobar.so.1.2.4 it now changes libfoobar.so.1 and since it has a ABI breaking change a stack of applications now fail. [16:24] oiaohm This comes from Unix and kind renders the version after library almost useless. [16:25] MinceR if you make an ABI breaking change in a library, you're supposed to increment the major version number [16:25] oiaohm That if you know you have made a ABI breaking change. [16:25] MinceR if you don't, stop developing libraries [16:25] oiaohm Its sometimes impossible to know how applications developers have exploited your library. [16:25] MinceR or get help from someone who knows [16:26] MinceR if applications use a library in a different way from the official interface, they deserve to break [16:26] oiaohm If that application users 100 percent needs they are screwed then. [16:27] oiaohm Multi version problem of libraries is a serous pain in the ass. [16:27] oiaohm I really wish the Unix guys had done that link short version. [16:27] MinceR if the application is so broken, it might as well carry its own copy of the library and be vulnerable [16:27] oiaohm So you link to the full library so.1.2.3 [16:27] oiaohm and if new version is compadilbe you symlink it to new version [16:27] MinceR and that's how your applications won't get security fixes to their libraries [16:28] oiaohm That would have been nicely abi stable. [16:28] oiaohm Ok messy to a point. [16:32] oiaohm Also those symlinks would not have had to exist either the dymamic linker could have been made smart enough if exact version was not installed to look for newer version use than and inform user application was built with older version. [16:32] MinceR symlinks are far simpler [16:33] oiaohm symlinking to the .1 and the like then having the application linked against the point 1 you cannot just do a command on a binary and go this program was built with X version of library. [16:33] oiaohm That is quite annoying bug to me. [16:34] oiaohm Not like ELF format says it has to exist. [16:41] schestowitz [15:25] hey schestowitz I no longer see your feed on mastodon...the connection with pleroma.site on firefox fails due to ssl [16:41] schestowitz Ariadne: the site is still down, but I'm happy he had a backup and can wait for href [16:43] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705165.jpg [16:44] XRevan86 MinceR: A sticker of a hores instead of a drawing? How lame. [16:45] MinceR :) [16:50] cybrNaut Mastodon instances and accounts have been ranked on the number of CloudFlare links mentioned: https://codeberg.org/crimeflare/stop_cloudflare/src/branch/master/subfiles/shared_on_mastodon.md#about-mastodon-servers [16:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-crimeflare/stop_cloudflare: Resist Cloudflare or submit. - subfiles/shared_on_mastodon.md at master - stop_cloudflare - Codeberg.org [16:57] MinceR nice site ● Dec 09 [17:03] schestowitz yup [17:08] cybrNaut it's quite surprising that some Mastodon nodes have zero CloudFlare links in any of the toots [17:11] Ariadne https://centos.rip/ [17:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-centos.rip | The RHEL Project [17:14] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [17:14] schestowitz Ariadne: several fork-ishs it seems [17:14] schestowitz Rocky Linux [17:14] schestowitz that's the one from centos' founder [17:15] MinceR strange [17:15] schestowitz apparently some more efforts [17:15] MinceR one would think they've taken to heart the core tenet of their OS (systemd) already: no choice but "standardization" [17:21] MinceR (cat) https://imgur.com/gallery/dPlNjp9 [17:21] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Your snuggies have arrived. - Album on Imgur [17:27] *cubexyz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:27] *cubexyz (~cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #techrights [17:33] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-jyjezzqzqjxbfmtu) has joined #techrights [17:43] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705144.jpg [17:46] XRevan86 https://rockylinux.org/ what did I say? [17:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream Blog.CentOS.org [17:54] schestowitz github [17:56] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [17:56] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [17:56] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [17:56] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-jyjezzqzqjxbfmtu) has joined #techrights ● Dec 09 [18:05] XRevan86 There's practically nothing in there. Maybe they'll change to their own infrastructure once they get their own infrastucture. Or maybe not, who knows. [18:06] XRevan86 The important to me part is that it seems IBM will get nothing but bad PR from killing CentOS. The king is dead, long live the king, that sort of thing. [18:08] XRevan86 Rocky Linux is not a cool name though. [18:10] schestowitz It's not too rocky [18:10] schestowitz almost stable [18:10] schestowitz Almost-stable Linux(TM) [18:10] schestowitz Maybe they meant it's hard like a rock [18:12] MinceR well, it is never going to be stable with systemd [18:12] XRevan86 Why not KudOS ? [18:12] MinceR (or rpm, for that matter) [18:12] MinceR kraftlOS [18:12] MinceR or even just POS [18:13] XRevan86 KopeckOS [18:14] schestowitz dimeOS [18:14] schestowitz quarteros [18:14] schestowitz nicklos [18:14] MinceR NSAOS [18:14] schestowitz shillOS [18:14] XRevan86 PoundOS, nextgen [18:14] schestowitz shillingOS [18:14] MinceR systemd-distrod [18:14] schestowitz lol [18:15] schestowitz spat my tea [18:15] oiaohm XRevan86: there is no such thing as 100 percent bad PR. [18:15] XRevan86 100 percent is one cent [18:16] XRevan86 that's not true, and the joke didn't work either [18:17] MinceR tencent [18:18] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:19] XRevan86 percentos [18:19] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705045.jpg [18:19] MinceR OverpricedOS [18:19] MinceR (even though it's gratis) [18:20] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [18:20] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [18:21] XRevan86 BiznOS [18:22] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [18:24] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [18:32] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-yrvyimkngxpmulhl) has joined #techrights [18:38] *KREYREN has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:39] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [18:39] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/704845.jpg [18:44] schestowitz "fuck the pope" [18:50] DaemonFC[m] CentOS Stream sounds like a way to keep CentOS around but turn it into the "Insider Builds" (Windows term) of RHEL. [18:50] DaemonFC[m] Red Hat probably figures that there's no reason to keep it around anyway since you can apparently use RHEL for free with no support contracts. [18:50] schestowitz [??] Red Hat probably figures >>> [18:50] schestowitz There's no Red Hat [18:51] schestowitz it's an IBM decision [18:51] schestowitz But they opened up an opportunity for another zero-cost clone -- one that is not IBM-controlled [18:52] DaemonFC[m] Even before IBM, Red Hat was making aggressive moves to frustrate community rebuilds, like making what's actually in their kernel a secret. [18:52] schestowitz maybe they can throw a Swedish wrentch into systemd or something [18:52] schestowitz something only Red Hat knows how to fix [18:52] DaemonFC[m] You can't really pour over 30 million lines of code and get a good overview of what they did even though it complies with the GPL. [18:52] DaemonFC[m] They knew how to comply minimally and game the system. [18:52] schestowitz SUSE was the same [18:52] schestowitz we pointed this out like 13 years ago [18:53] schestowitz because they limited access to full source [18:53] schestowitz just enough to sort of comply [18:53] DaemonFC[m] It was really directed at Oracle, which is why they started doing their own kernel and including the "Red Hat Compatible Kernel" even though they claimed the Oracle Kernel was Red Hat compatible. [18:53] DaemonFC[m] Then Red Hat turned that into a selling point. "See, they don't know what we've done or if they're even compatible!". [18:54] schestowitz Oracle is a good excuse [18:54] schestowitz midn you [18:54] schestowitz happened around the same time as the Novell deal [18:54] schestowitz iirc, about a month apart [18:54] schestowitz ellison going red hat red hat red hat red hat red hat red hat [18:55] DaemonFC[m] You've always been able to compile custom kernels on any Linux distribution, but you have no idea if you actually are 100% compatible with that distribution anymore. [18:55] schestowitz unbreakable they called it [18:55] DaemonFC[m] So Oracle is doing false and misleading advertising. [18:55] schestowitz Oracle supports Trump [18:55] DaemonFC[m] Because even if the policy is we don't break userspace, it has happened before. [18:55] schestowitz that's all I need to know about Oracle [18:55] DaemonFC[m] And sometimes they don't even notice it upstream for months. [18:55] schestowitz and avoid everything with the Oracle logo [18:55] DaemonFC[m] Breakage can be obvious or it can be subtle. [18:56] DaemonFC[m] If it's subtle then it can crop up only when you run a very specific workload. [18:56] DaemonFC[m] It's impossible to screw around with the kernel at the pace they develop the kernel at and claim that userspace never breaks, at all. [18:57] DaemonFC[m] It does, and then nobody realizes it for a while. [18:57] DaemonFC[m] There isn't an operating system out there that never has a breaking change. [18:57] DaemonFC[m] There's a difference between giving it a good effort at backwards compatibility to a reasonable extent and not giving a shit at all and breaking everything all the time and you should be using the App Store anyway (Apple). [18:58] DaemonFC[m] I think it's very telling that Microsoft even didn't push to remove the legacy Windows 2000/XP audio stack model until recently. It's deprecated. It'll be removed at some point. [18:58] DaemonFC[m] foobar2000 went and got out ahead of that, and it ended up accidentally solving a whole bunch of problems with it running under Wine. ● Dec 09 [19:00] DaemonFC[m] I'm skeptical of the non-LTS releases of Linux distributions these days. [19:01] DaemonFC[m] It used to be that even those generally worked fine. [19:01] schestowitz depends on your needs [19:01] schestowitz you can be awkward ime [19:01] schestowitz like, you say you worry about driver blobs [19:01] DaemonFC[m] But with the rapid quality degradation that new software from IBM Red Hat is bringing in, I think you really need to be another step removed from it. [19:01] schestowitz and then you install Microsoft Edge [19:02] schestowitz and I guess you add Microsoft PPAs [19:02] MinceR and Microsoft Linux [19:02] MinceR from the Microsoft Linux Foundation [19:02] schestowitz you say you want stability, but you most f* around with your Microsoft-branded machines.. [19:02] DaemonFC[m] Out of tree drivers are a very serious problem, whether they are Free Software or not. [19:02] schestowitz you do no serious work on your PC AFAIK [19:03] schestowitz not paid work or anything very critical (that I could see) [19:03] DaemonFC[m] Canonical claims they can support ZFS and that they are very proud of it, but their blog kind of hints that it's a total hack held together with bird shit and duct tape. [19:03] schestowitz so if the PC would not start, your job would not be at risk [19:03] schestowitz mine would [19:04] DaemonFC[m] Very fragile. They noted what they had to do to get grub working with their "bpool" setup and then they had to stop users from upgrading the pool else the system would no longer work. [19:04] DaemonFC[m] I mean, who wants to deploy something like that? [19:04] DaemonFC[m] You want to talk about maybe your system doesn't boot up. This ZFS on Linux thing is just total crackpot stuff. [19:05] DaemonFC[m] And I think they're throwing it out there to try to differentiate themselves when it's not legal, it doesn't work well, they can't guarantee that customers that roll it out won't have a total disaster on their hands eventually. [19:05] DaemonFC[m] All the while, they could just use BtrFS and constructively collaborate to make it better. [19:06] DaemonFC[m] Ext4 is not aging well, and managing LVM is a nightmare. [19:06] MinceR have they stopped pretending that btrfs is oh so stable yet? [19:06] schestowitz who needs these at home? [19:06] DaemonFC[m] If you like backing up corrupt data and having no transparent compression or integrated volume management, Ext4 is the file system for you. [19:06] MinceR it's difficult to fix issues while pretending they don't exist [19:07] schestowitz in 10 years I almost never had to fetch a file from a backup stack [19:07] DaemonFC[m] I'm chipping away at this backup hard drive. [19:07] MinceR i like a file system that doesn't shit itself in a week and doesn't use tons of RAM [19:07] schestowitz and most people don't do versioning of settings files [19:07] MinceR so, ext4 (or ext3) [19:07] schestowitz if they do, they know how to use git [19:07] DaemonFC[m] I've thrown a lot of crap on it in the years that I don't even need anymore. [19:07] DaemonFC[m] I'm almost certainly going to use btrfs on my external backup drives at some point. [19:08] DaemonFC[m] It's working fine on the laptop's SSD. [19:09] DaemonFC[m] Most of these modern laptops have an SSD and they just don't have hard drive levels of storage. [19:10] DaemonFC[m] Operating system partitions at the very least should be compressed because you can see a staggering compression ratio doing things that way. [19:10] DaemonFC[m] And since BtrFS is drawing from a complete pool, you win again, because you don't have to guess high or low about how much space each partition is going to need. [19:10] DaemonFC[m] Whatever happens, it cuts right on the line. Nothing wastes. [19:11] DaemonFC[m] *wasted [19:11] DaemonFC[m] And now, Fedora's new "no on disk SWAP setup promises some more wins. Like, not eating up 16 GB of your SSD for something that you'll hardly use. [19:11] MinceR or you could just use a single filesystem [19:12] schestowitz k.i.s.s. [19:12] schestowitz I don't want an opaque fs [19:12] DaemonFC[m] It just fixes a lot of problems, and the smaller the capacity of your SSD, the more cramped it's going to get if you use a traditional Linux file system. [19:12] schestowitz that compressed my data [19:12] schestowitz and complicates things [19:12] schestowitz and isn't compatible with some tooling [19:12] schestowitz unless I have some urgent need for a feature in it [19:13] schestowitz on servers that are some applications that could use rollback [19:13] schestowitz not on desktops [19:13] DaemonFC[m] zstandard is so lightweight you don't even notice it on my old laptop, which is based on Intel's 6th generation mobile platform. [19:13] schestowitz facebook [19:13] schestowitz > /dev/null/ [19:13] DaemonFC[m] You can use snapshots with it, but you certainly don't have to. [19:13] DaemonFC[m] I don't. [19:13] schestowitz lz4 [19:14] schestowitz Dual: BSD License + GPLv2 [19:14] DaemonFC[m] lz4 is what NTFS Compression uses. [19:14] DaemonFC[m] And it's very slow. [19:14] schestowitz Yann Collet at Facebook [19:14] schestowitz spies make it [19:14] schestowitz they can go where the sun won't shine [19:14] DaemonFC[m] That's why instead of compressing the entire file system, Microsoft has selectively applied it to certain Windows subfolders where the bloat is just too awful to live with. [19:14] DaemonFC[m] Such as side by side assemblies. [19:14] schestowitz it's like picking esoteric reiserfs [19:15] schestowitz unless the man behind is chops down the wife [19:15] schestowitz I used reiserfs in suse ages ago [19:15] schestowitz ext2 was used as standard at the time [19:15] schestowitz even suse dropped it [19:15] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, Ext2 and Ext3 were crap. [19:16] DaemonFC[m] They could have done several things much more efficiently without disturbing the on disk format and made bizarre performance-killing choices in the drivers that they never did bother to change. [19:17] DaemonFC[m] Linux is not guilt-free in the "Who the hell thought that was a good idea?" department, and it predates systemd and Pulseaudio. [19:17] DaemonFC[m] To say otherwise is pretty revisionist. [19:17] MinceR and yet they didn't shit themselves in a week [19:17] MinceR unlike btrfs [19:17] MinceR and they didn't eat all your RAM [19:17] MinceR unlike zfs [19:17] DaemonFC[m] The block allocator in the Ext2 and Ext3 drivers could have used some improvements. [19:18] MinceR i'll take "could use some improvements" over "totally unusable" any day [19:18] DaemonFC[m] Like allocating multiple blocks at once and using extents. [19:18] MinceR but that's just me [19:18] DaemonFC[m] Which were hardly unknown at the time. [19:19] DaemonFC[m] You could pre-allocate space for the entire file by writing it full of zeroes iirc with those file systems, but you had no idea where the blocks themselves would end up or if they would actually be contiguous because the block allocator had to be called for each block and it just put it wherever it did. [19:20] DaemonFC[m] Delayed allocation is where Ext4 brought in some extra potential for data loss. [19:20] MinceR yeah, i disable that [19:20] DaemonFC[m] It never did really get fixed, they just changed it so it doesn't wait as long before writing out. [19:21] DaemonFC[m] I tried all sorts of things to get away from Ext3. [19:21] DaemonFC[m] I tried ReiserFS, JFS, and XFS. [19:21] MinceR XFS was pretty good at losing data as well [19:21] DaemonFC[m] All of them had catastrophic failure cases. [19:22] DaemonFC[m] But at least JFS was pretty light on its CPU demands, which mattered a lot when we were all using slow single core CPUs. [19:23] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: Well, that depends on what you call critical. [19:23] DaemonFC[m] It kind of sucks when the government says hey use this file and don't worry, you can just use Adobe Reader or Microsoft Word. [19:24] DaemonFC[m] The fact is that GNOME and KDE only recently even got workable fillable form support for PDF. [19:24] DaemonFC[m] Do you know what kind of a nightmare it is to fill out immigration benefit requests? [19:24] DaemonFC[m] The pages just go on and on, and if it's at all unclear what you wrote or what you meant, they can deny it or stall you out. [19:24] DaemonFC[m] Maybe you start missing deadlines. It's nasty. [19:25] DaemonFC[m] I don't really want to play Devil's Advocate for Windows 10 of all things. [19:25] MinceR they might be solving this the other way [19:26] DaemonFC[m] In fact, it's just a privacy disaster, honestly. The stability and overall GUI competence seems to have improved a lot in the last 5 years, but the privacy has gotten worse. [19:26] MinceR by making nobody want to immigrate to or stay in uhmerica [19:26] DaemonFC[m] There's knobs all over the place, and then I realized that after I turned most of them off in the setup, when I went to the Settings menu, it had flipped most of them back on again somewhere. [19:27] DaemonFC[m] Chromium Edge certainly isn't as awful as Internet Explorer was, but I can still see why few people use it. [19:28] DaemonFC[m] The rendering performance of Firefox is pretty good. [19:28] schestowitz MinceR: some people like Cheetos [19:28] DaemonFC[m] It doesn't appear, to me, that Microsoft has any sort of "unfair advantage" there like they did with IE. [19:28] schestowitz and I know some in Europe who wanted to move there for Cheetos [19:28] MinceR schestowitz: they can get it outside uhmerica [19:28] schestowitz no [19:28] schestowitz this one is a person [19:28] schestowitz they adore him [19:28] DaemonFC[m] Remember when they preloaded IE's crap with the shell so that it appeared IE would start immediately while Netscape or any other browser took like 5-6 times as long? [19:28] MinceR oh, that one [19:29] MinceR well, he said he's going to emigrate [19:29] DaemonFC[m] I've done okay with Immigration so far. [19:29] DaemonFC[m] They approved Mandy's EAD renewal through March 6th of 2022. [19:30] DaemonFC[m] I put some stank on that one because I knew that Trump would either lose the election and try his best to cause as many problems as possible on the way out -or- he'd win and have 4 years to cause as many problems as he liked. [19:30] schestowitz trump won the election [19:30] schestowitz but it was stolen, according to trump [19:30] DaemonFC[m] I knew either way it would get bad, so I hurried. [19:30] DaemonFC[m] 4 more years would have been far worse. [19:30] schestowitz you don't get rid of con jobs without more cons [19:31] DaemonFC[m] Instead of monkeying around for two months and nothing ultimately sticks he's be able to sharpen the knife, get someone actually legally appointed, and implement the worst rules possible in accordance with the regulatory procedure. [19:31] DaemonFC[m] If you have 4 years it's easier than having it all come apart at the end of your term with no time to try again. [19:32] DaemonFC[m] So, I made my decision accordingly. [19:32] MinceR (cat) (audio) https://i.imgur.com/4hpss3n.mp4 [19:32] DaemonFC[m] Trump did a rush job and was incredibly sloppy, and now most of it is being voided even before Biden gets sworn in, schestowitz [19:33] DaemonFC[m] But with 4 more years, I don't think we could rely on him making the same mistakes twice. [19:33] DaemonFC[m] We just got relatively lucky once. [19:34] DaemonFC[m] The courts obviously give him too much power, but they're not going to ignore gross violations of the law. [19:34] DaemonFC[m] Not even one of his three judges on the Supreme Court is lifting a finger to give any pretense of legitimacy to his "stolen election" farce. [19:35] DaemonFC[m] Well, Biden needs to make some inroads with minority voters, for sure. [19:35] DaemonFC[m] Trump actually did BETTER with them the second time. He lost a lot of white voters that supported him in 2016, which was more than his gain among minorities. [19:36] DaemonFC[m] Including taking the biggest share of the other party's voters since 1992. [19:36] DaemonFC[m] Biden did. [19:37] DaemonFC[m] So, uh, he's going to have a juggling act. He can't count on white Republicans who just couldn't stand Trump anymore and voted accordingly because they didn't like Trump, unless maybe Trump does come back. [19:38] DaemonFC[m] He underperformed with minorities and overperformed with white voters vs. the average for a Democratic candidate. [19:38] DaemonFC[m] And even at that, further down the ballot it was a disaster for the Democrats. [19:39] DaemonFC[m] Biden didn't have coattails and he'll be the first president since George H.W. Bush took office in 1989 to not have his own party in control of Congress. [19:40] DaemonFC[m] I don't think, fundamentally, that those Biden Republicans have had a change of heart on immigrants or anything. [19:40] DaemonFC[m] There's mixed data about Republicans coming around on gay rights. [19:40] DaemonFC[m] So it's still pretty scary out there. [19:41] DaemonFC[m] There's still going to be Nazis marching through the street. It's just that the President of the United States, for four years anyway, won't be egging them on. [19:42] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: As far as Linux, we need a lot of things, but the infrastructure in some parts is very solid, and in other parts it's full of lulz. [19:43] DaemonFC[m] And the people adding the lulz are going around Linus Torvalds and polluting userspace and supplanting things that the kernel, and now even grub, could already do very well. [19:43] MinceR does kdbus count as "lulz"? :> [19:43] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, it does. [19:44] DaemonFC[m] And systemd-boot is an obvious attempt at marching forth and gutting Linux distros of the GPLv3. [19:44] MinceR well, the people adding the "lulz" seem to be blackmailing Linus and just merging whatever they feel like [19:45] DaemonFC[m] The LGPL v2.1 says nothing about DRM, locked bootloaders, and corrupt deals involving patents. [19:45] DaemonFC[m] So of course they're now moving towards an inevitable public knifing of GRUB. [19:45] MinceR plus GRUB supports MBR and Legacy Boot, which they want to kill [19:46] DaemonFC[m] It will make it even easier to violate the license of the kernel because nobody will have any interest in enforcing that once you have removed GNU and busybox and all that. [19:46] DaemonFC[m] Replacing it with junk from IBM, Microsoft, and mjg59 [19:47] DaemonFC[m] We're inching closer to a future where Linux is just proprietary UNIX all over again and Microsoft, IBM, Google, and Canonical are coming up with some occupation government for it. [19:47] DaemonFC[m] That occupation government is pretty much what the Linux Foundation is. [19:49] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: What's truly aggravating, regarding file systems, is that fucking exfat is the only thing that you know all three major operating systems have read/write access to that actually works. [19:50] DaemonFC[m] The exfat fuse driver got things horribly wrong and would eventually degrade and corrupt the file system. [19:50] DaemonFC[m] That's what you get with reverse engineering, and the performance was terrible. [19:52] MinceR except proprietary Unix was Unix [19:53] MinceR and systemd/Linux isn't [19:53] MinceR so it's even worse [19:53] MinceR it's like slowlaris at its worst, if not worse [19:54] DaemonFC[m] I think that Microsoft is laughing, because they're slowly chipping away at the worst disasters of Windows 10 while dumping more of them into Linux through their partners. [19:54] DaemonFC[m] Until nobody bothers to run it anymore. [19:55] DaemonFC[m] Debian has secret mailing lists and somehow always manages to "vote" to do the same exact thing Fedora and Ubuntu have done. [19:55] DaemonFC[m] Takes dark money. [19:55] DaemonFC[m] They're a corporation at this point. [19:56] MinceR a subsidiary of red hat, effectively [19:56] DaemonFC[m] They're masquerading as a non-profit, but then again, so do hospitals. [19:56] MinceR so does mozilla [19:56] DaemonFC[m] "We do charity care." [19:56] DaemonFC[m] Trash your credit and then if you're not worth suing, write it off and leave you with an outrageous bill from the IRS. [19:56] DaemonFC[m] How charitable. ● Dec 09 [20:00] DaemonFC[m] As an absolute last resort, they charge it off and take a tax break that you're paying for when the IRS comes after you. [20:00] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: Charity! [20:00] DaemonFC[m] Just like the credit card people. [20:01] DaemonFC[m] You can have all the charity you can owe the government for. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: So they gave Mandy an extra 15% off one transaction as a holiday bonus. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] Wonder what to use it for. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] It's only good tomorrow and the day after. [20:04] *oiaohm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [20:05] *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights [20:22] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: so pay with cash [20:22] schestowitz anonymously :-) [20:25] vZS1 I'm with MinceR on this one. Filesystems shouldn't try to become another behemoth [20:26] vZS1 ZFS, btrfs, etc all try to do things best left to specialised tools [20:26] schestowitz systemd-filesystemd [20:26] schestowitz systemd-homed [20:26] vZS1 You end up having to design your deployments tightly coupled to what system you are running [20:26] schestowitz systemd-browserd [20:26] schestowitz all in one [20:26] schestowitz whatZZ not to like? [20:27] schestowitz Internet Explorwindows [20:27] schestowitz with "Active Desktop: [20:27] vZS1 s/system/filesystem [20:27] schestowitz Because you need a web page as your wallpaper! [20:27] vZS1 It's a stupid design decision. [20:27] schestowitz it's for antitrust [20:27] vZS1 I just use Git to version control things that need version control. [20:27] schestowitz they tried to pretend the browser needs to be part of the OS [20:27] schestowitz and not put there to kill Netscape [20:27] vZS1 There are plenty of compression tools for things that need compression [20:28] schestowitz [19:07] and most people don't do versioning of settings files [20:28] vZS1 I'm not buying the bloated filesystem idea anymore [20:28] schestowitz [19:07] if they do, they know how to use git [20:28] vZS1 Yeah [20:28] vZS1 I saw that [20:28] schestowitz most files don't need compressinf [20:28] vZS1 Same applies to all files [20:28] schestowitz as they're small and need to be accesssed FAST [20:28] vZS1 Everything is a file in POSIX [20:28] vZS1 Yep [20:28] schestowitz Mirosoft: Linux needs to be on GitHub [20:28] schestowitz because email is hard [20:29] schestowitz me: people who can't do email cannot code either [20:29] schestowitz or contribute really shit code [20:29] schestowitz better off discarded by defaul [20:29] vZS1 These eat up too much system resources better utilised elsewhere (as MinceR pointed out) [20:29] vZS1 Or shit themselves frequently [20:29] *swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c) [20:29] schestowitz that's why Torvalds cans ALL "pull requests" that come from shithub [20:29] schestowitz even before Microsoft bought it [20:30] vZS1 schestowitz: good point about the proprietary through obscurity btw. [20:30] vZS1 No one can work out what's in millions of lines of code unless it's their full time job and they're good at studying codebases. [20:31] vZS1 So those codebases are effectively proprietary, regardless of GPL licensing [20:31] vZS1 We need to strive for simplicity and minimalism [20:31] vZS1 That's the only way to keep control of our computing [20:33] vZS1 GNU is particularly bad at doing this because it crams a lot of utilities with unnecessary options. People can pipe other tools together to achieve that. GNU is definitely not UNIX, when it comes to that philosophy. [20:35] DaemonFC[m] There were tools that removed IE from Windows 98 and Me, browser engine and all, and replaced it with the Windows 95 B shell that was FAT32 aware. [20:35] DaemonFC[m] Patched it to say whatever version of Windows it was running on. [20:35] DaemonFC[m] IE was never as integrated as they claimed it was. [20:36] DaemonFC[m] If you removed it, the computer was faster and more stable, at the cost of things that went to use IE not working, so of course they crammed Office 97 full of dependencies on IE as well. [20:36] DaemonFC[m] Their idea was that IE had to be a part of everything, no matter how insane. [20:37] DaemonFC[m] Then they could list a number of features that nobody wanted that would break, taking entire programs with them, purely for the point of breaking those programs and declaring the OS broken. [20:37] DaemonFC[m] But, Windows 98 and Me, stripped of IE, did everything Windows 95 did and more, if you didn't choose to install IE and the new shell. [20:38] DaemonFC[m] You still had DirectX, FAT32, an improved memory manager, ACM codecs..... [20:38] vZS1 schestowitz: the nice thing about Git is we can just send patches through any system that allows file attachments. git-format-patch(1) [20:38] DaemonFC[m] On Windows Me, System File Protection would still guard everything that was left. [20:39] DaemonFC[m] It was faster and more stable, with the obvious improvement of most of the security patches no longer applied to the OS you were running. [20:40] DaemonFC[m] I did a quick glossing over at what each patch for Windows 98 Second Edition did, and came to the conclusion that only 21% of the hotfixes applied to Windows 98 SE with IE and the webby shell removed. [20:40] vZS1 ShitHub will always be inferior to Git [20:41] vZS1 You can't even send a big patch file on Shithub. It'll choke. [20:41] DaemonFC[m] So at least by count of bugs that they ever fixed, they increased the bug count to 500% of what it was before, solely by adding IE to the system. [20:41] DaemonFC[m] And I checked. IE 11 is still there in Windows 10 20H2. [20:41] DaemonFC[m] You can still browse with it. [20:41] DaemonFC[m] This is getting ridiculous. [20:41] MinceR you don't even get dos mode with ME [20:41] DaemonFC[m] You do get DOS mode with Me. [20:42] DaemonFC[m] You have to patch like three files though. [20:42] DaemonFC[m] So you can run 98LITE to gut it and throw in the 95 B shell and then patch those three files to restore real mode DOS. [20:43] DaemonFC[m] The actual improvements to Windows 9x more or less trailed off with Windows 95 B. [20:43] DaemonFC[m] There were some, but they were completely overtaken by the bloat and insecurity and bugs introduced by their web browser. [20:45] schestowitz SUEPO: " [20:45] schestowitz Announcement of a strike: The strike will take place on December 15th, 2020. [20:45] schestowitz We expect you to participate in large numbers. [20:45] schestowitz " [20:49] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: In the LibreOffice 7 release notes, they mentioned that parts of OOXML are undocumented and they had to reverse engineer what "compatibility level 15" actually was. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] And what to do to implement it. [20:49] DaemonFC[m] Office Undocumented XML [20:50] DaemonFC[m] I wonder how long it will be before Microsoft just stops letting you get the actual files and tells people they must use MS Office online to even read something. [20:51] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: Major breaking news. [20:51] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/tech/facebook-antitrust-lawsuit-ftc-attorney-generals/index.html [20:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Facebook antitrust lawsuit: Dozens of states and the FTC sue company for alleged anticompetitive behavior - CNN [20:51] DaemonFC[m] The federal government is going after Facebook with the Sherman Antitrust Act. ● Dec 09 [21:02] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/lobby [21:02] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Lobby [21:05] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [21:11] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [21:11] DaemonFC[m] I might order some of those 256 GB Micro Center thumb drives. [21:11] DaemonFC[m] $20 is pretty cheap. [21:13] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/quest [21:13] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Quest [21:16] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: does not seem so big [21:16] schestowitz if you saw the news last week [21:21] vZS1 Just watched the Rise of Skywalker [21:21] vZS1 Meh [21:21] MinceR the Fall of Landwalker [21:22] vZS1 I feel like they're trying to do too much in one film [21:22] vZS1 Every single one tries to be a plot revelation [21:22] vZS1 Where's the build-up? [21:22] MinceR s/walk/fli/ [21:24] vZS1 Guess I'll go back to reading [21:25] vZS1 I was hoping to get a new ASOIAF book this year but alas. [21:25] MinceR :> [21:27] vZS1 I read Fire And Blood in April. I really enjoyed it. [21:29] MinceR ah, clever [21:29] MinceR he started a second series before finishing the first :> [21:31] vZS1 It's more a history than a series [21:32] vZS1 I'm pretty sure most of it was already lying around somewhere [21:32] vZS1 It's only two parts. [21:32] MinceR or so you think [21:32] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/09/business/coal-country-pain/index.html [21:32] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Falling sales, job losses and bankruptcies: Pain spreads across coal country - CNN [21:33] DaemonFC[m] "Leaving the labor force." [21:33] DaemonFC[m] Oh, I think I'll just leave the labor force for no reason at all. [21:33] DaemonFC[m] Lalala' [21:33] vZS1 With GRRM, you never really know. [21:33] DaemonFC[m] Oh, how's the economy? Couldn't be better. Back to you, Bob. [21:37] MinceR the richest people are not part of the labor force :> [21:42] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights ● Dec 09 [22:03] *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights [22:09] *Blukunfando has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:10] vZS1 I ate too many blueberries [22:21] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/dear-muse [22:21] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Dear Muse [22:34] DaemonFC[m] This mouse works better than that stupid Logitech one did, at least. [22:34] DaemonFC[m] I do always appreciate how Microsoft mice have a loud "click" noise. [22:35] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: stupid part is Microsoft Mice most of them were made by Logitech. [22:36] oiaohm Just Microsoft designs called for the click. [22:36] MinceR aren't they both made by KYE? [22:42] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-fzgxtgzpunmqjaie) has joined #techrights [22:44] birkoff ain't esr the developer who has gone off tracks to a raving gun lunatic ? [22:45] kingoffrance i thought some would say he kind of always was that guy :) [22:45] birkoff haven't heard from him since his last offset wishful thinking about linux conquering the desktop [22:45] birkoff kingoffrance: his early writings and works were more focused on freedom and computers culture [22:46] birkoff I guess that just happens to people who get old [22:46] kingoffrance he was cathedral and bazaar i guess noone brings that up anymore [22:46] birkoff he's kicked off his own funded organization the OSS [22:48] birkoff his movement did make an impact [22:50] vZS1 ESR did more harm than good [22:51] DaemonFC[m] Kind of like how the Republicans can't get anyone to say stop playing our music except Ted Nugent? [22:51] vZS1 Repeated attacks on RMS. [22:54] MinceR (cat) https://i.imgur.com/HrZSe26.jpeg [22:57] birkoff vZS1: did he directly attack him or just his notion of Free Software [22:58] DaemonFC[m] I ran into an article that said don't totally compress drive C, but if that's the case that it would make Windows unbootable, why is it an option on drive C? [22:58] vZS1 Directly and GNU [22:59] vZS1 RMS was treated like crap by all of the "open source" crowd ● Dec 09 [23:00] birkoff RMS is truely underrated all over [23:00] birkoff vZS1: can you give an example ? [23:00] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz: The Lake County, IL government just messaged me. They want me to register for a Coronavirus vaccine. [23:00] DaemonFC[m] Sounds like some of the side effects are pretty rough. [23:00] vZS1 Just search Techrights [23:01] DaemonFC[m] One person told CNBC that he got the chills so bad he cracked a tooth. [23:02] *KREYREN has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [23:02] *KREYREN (~kreyren@fsf/member/kreyren) has joined #techrights [23:03] *oiaohm has quit () [23:03] vZS1 http://techrights.org/2020/11/12/2001-rms-opens-up/ [23:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Just-Released Footage of Dr. Richard Stallman (RMS): Open Source People Treated Me Like Shit | Techrights [23:04] DaemonFC[m] https://allvax.lakecohealth.org/s/article/What-should-I-do-if-I-have-a-reaction-after-getting-a-COVID-19-vaccine?language=en_US [23:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-allvax.lakecohealth.org | Resident [23:04] DaemonFC[m] I like how they backstop the "most people escape with only mild side effects" with "but we won't know what it does for years". [23:05] vZS1 ESR spent years shittalking GNU [23:05] vZS1 Not hard to find. Just search his old blog [23:06] vZS1 He didn't really build anything that got used much either [23:06] vZS1 Probably a lot of envy in there [23:15] *tessier has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [23:20] *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights [23:23] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [23:23] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [23:23] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [23:23] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-fzgxtgzpunmqjaie) has joined #techrights [23:58] *jpli (~quassel@2806:106e:24:3e42::3) has joined #techrights