●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Saturday, December 12, 2020 ●● ● Dec 12 [00:01] *guysoft42 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [00:04] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [00:21] *chovy has quit (Remote host closed the connection) ● Dec 12 [01:12] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/704863.jpg [01:23] Ariadne schestowitz: i was thinking about it, and openlitespeed might be an interesting server to use to replace apache [01:23] Ariadne it supports .htaccess [01:33] *swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c) [01:40] *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [02:04] schestowitz Ariadne: why not just keep apache? [02:08] XRevan86 openlitespeed? why? [02:28] XRevan86 schestowitz: Apache httpd is a bit heavy and somewhat messy, but openlitespeed surprises me. [02:29] schestowitz our stuff (scripts, htaccess, apachetop etc.) is already written for apache [02:29] schestowitz moving to something else would mean extra work [02:30] XRevan86 Maybe Ariadne is interested in the drop-in magic that LiteSpeed has. [02:30] XRevan86 schestowitz: Now it makes more sense. [02:31] schestowitz wordpress has more of a weight issue in our case, because of some plugins [02:31] schestowitz moving to another webserver s/w would mean adventure and risk. apache was not failing on us. [02:32] XRevan86 schestowitz: Knowing that you're using mod_php/mpm_prefork Apache httpd has definitely been failing on you :) [02:32] XRevan86 But it's not really its fault. Not completely anyway. [02:46] *jpli has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) [02:54] schestowitz Remember there are two sites [02:54] schestowitz and they use not the same CMS [02:54] schestowitz both on apache ● Dec 12 [03:05] *oiaohm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [03:05] *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights [03:10] XRevan86 schestowitz: But both with mod_php? [03:10] XRevan86 Both Drupal and WordPress are PHP. [03:30] XRevan86 Spawning a process on each connection is very heavy. That introduces unnecessary load on the processor and limits the amount of simultaneous connections that don't put the machine down on its knees to about a hundred. [03:35] schestowitz changing to another system would be costly in other ways [03:35] schestowitz the key objective is, retain structure and don't lose data/meta [03:36] schestowitz so CMS changes or even going static are not an option, not for not at least [03:36] schestowitz having said that, the underlying stack needs an update [03:36] schestowitz php, apache, tmux version etc. [03:36] schestowitz esp. the web-facing stuff [03:39] *xvx has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [03:39] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) ● Dec 12 [04:16] Ariadne i guess we can try fastcgi + mpm_event [04:16] Ariadne i've had success with mpm_event in the past [04:17] schestowitz I trust you on that... [04:18] Ariadne openlitespeed may still be better though (and its compatible with .htaccess files) [04:20] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [04:21] schestowitz I don't suppose using different webserver for different CMS types would be good practice [04:22] Ariadne no [04:23] Ariadne but we can try apache2 mpm_event first [04:27] schestowitz when can we start the attempts? [04:54] schestowitz vZS1: [04:54] schestowitz https://www.patrick-breyer.de/?p=593944&lang=en [04:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.patrick-breyer.de | Europol and counterterrorism: Commission calls for biometric mass surveillance and attacks encryption Patrick Breyer ● Dec 12 [08:00] schestowitz Re: Fwd: Unfettered Freedom Ep. 12 [08:00] schestowitz >> "Microsoft is starting to change my mind a little bit" [08:00] schestowitz >> [08:00] schestowitz >> Bye, DT. [08:00] schestowitz > One problem is that some people are reasonable, like him, and they try [08:00] schestowitz > to project their values onto the microsofters even though it does not [08:00] schestowitz > overlap with their values. That ends up covering up their bullshit. [08:00] schestowitz > [08:00] schestowitz > His early episodes were ok, but I expect the microsofters have him on [08:00] schestowitz > their radar and are working on him and there has been very little [08:01] schestowitz > interaction from legitimate people. The "chat with patrons" suggests [08:01] schestowitz > that. If there were a way to get feedback to him, I would contact him. [08:01] schestowitz > But I won't forward any more episodes if he's that full of shit. [08:02] schestowitz >> Can you give some context? [08:02] schestowitz > [08:02] schestowitz > It's 5 minutes in. [08:02] schestowitz > [08:02] schestowitz > Honestly, I lost my excitement when I saw him trash Stallman during [08:02] schestowitz > cancellation in Sept 2019. I didn't find that video until I'd been [08:02] schestowitz > watching him for a while, or I probably wouldn't have started watching [08:02] schestowitz > in the first place. [08:02] schestowitz > [08:02] schestowitz > Anybody who can track all the things he has and known all the things [08:02] schestowitz > he's demonstrated knowing and can still say Microsoft can change his [08:02] schestowitz > mind a little is joking around. Not as in don't take him seriously-- as [08:02] schestowitz > in CAN'T take him seriously. [08:02] schestowitz > [08:02] schestowitz > But just skip to the 5:00 mark and decide for yourself. This isn't a [08:02] schestowitz > recommendation about your feed, it's just a heads up about my own. I [08:02] schestowitz > don't have a feed exactly like you do, but there are equivalents and I [08:02] schestowitz > really can't be bothered now. Unfortunately this is really common-- DT [08:02] schestowitz > was probably the BEST of the guys doing stuff like this. And that's [08:02] schestowitz > saying so very little, sadly. He's still on "Open Source"-- and it [08:02] schestowitz > shows. It really shows. Open Source isn't activism, it's more like a [08:02] schestowitz > circus where Free Software devs are the bears and clowns. Corporations [08:02] schestowitz > are the ringleader. Sucks. [08:48] vZS1 schestowitz: "With its plans to break secure encryption," [08:48] vZS1 They aren't breaking anything. Because most systems are not E2EE, by definition. [08:49] schestowitz being pedantic, yes [08:49] schestowitz I often mock the idea of "weakened" encryption [08:49] schestowitz which means fake encryption [08:49] schestowitz either it's encrypted or it is not [08:49] vZS1 That's something the public need to be educated about. And it's not being presented. They make it look like they're capable of something they're not. [08:49] vZS1 It's deception [08:49] schestowitz or they put some threshold of computer time needed to crack if [08:50] vZS1 s/presented/pedantic [08:50] schestowitz as if criminals will say, crap! I don't have a mainframe, I will need to run this on a cluster of SBCs [08:50] schestowitz minor point: [08:50] schestowitz these schemes [08:50] schestowitz fake encryption [08:50] schestowitz VERY bad for the environment [08:51] schestowitz like NSA spinning up a million-node machine [08:51] schestowitz just to break into some little message [08:51] schestowitz how many trees will die? [08:51] vZS1 Idk [08:52] schestowitz or their agile quantum smart clown [08:54] vZS1 But this habit of labelling fake E2EE as the real thing is what needs a bit more coverage. [08:55] *guysoft42 (~guysoft@2a0d:6fc1:2:1f00::442) has joined #techrights [08:57] vZS1 Even pro-privacy articles don't mention this. [08:57] vZS1 That needs to change [08:57] vZS1 When you do E2EE the surveillance machine can't do anything to stop it. [08:58] schestowitz they can break in [08:58] schestowitz to get private keys [08:58] schestowitz and then torture you for passphrases [08:58] schestowitz (happens.) [08:59] vZS1 That will be a PR disaster once they start doing it to enough innocent people ● Dec 12 [09:01] schestowitz yes, behind closed doors is easier [09:01] schestowitz the other day we entered the building of gchq in the north [09:01] schestowitz heron house [09:01] schestowitz it's where the city council has some operations pending renovations of town hall [09:01] schestowitz So I said, this is where they read people's private things [09:02] schestowitz I actually argued with the ladies at reception about privacy [09:02] schestowitz and Android [09:02] schestowitz two of them fronting the building [09:02] schestowitz they lose the argument [09:02] schestowitz always falling back on "COVID" [09:02] schestowitz obviously [09:02] schestowitz lost the argument? COVID. [09:03] schestowitz COVID does magic [09:03] schestowitz you can break the law [09:03] schestowitz deny services [09:03] schestowitz just... COVID [09:03] schestowitz suspension of the law [09:03] vZS1 "emergency measures" [09:03] vZS1 Trick as old as time [09:04] vZS1 That's pretty much the entire argument against E2EE as well [09:05] vZS1 Throw rights out the window [09:05] vZS1 And accountability [09:06] vZS1 This is also why it's really important we preserve software encryption. "Hardware-accelerated" encryption is easy to abuse because it's opaque. [09:07] *liberty_box_ (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [09:07] *liberty_box_ has quit (Client Quit) [09:07] vZS1 I forgot to mention this in detail before but HSMs really are not trustworthy. [09:07] vZS1 HSM := Hardware security module [09:08] schestowitz RNG in hardware [09:08] schestowitz opebsd actively avoids those [09:08] schestowitz because you don't know the entropy [09:08] vZS1 Yeah [09:08] schestowitz and cannot reverse-engineer it either [09:08] schestowitz so it's just a case of "let's hope for the best" [09:09] schestowitz though Intel works with intel agencies [09:09] schestowitz to make the numbers more predictable [09:09] schestowitz like a predictable CHAIN in the seeding [09:09] schestowitz but the developers is all GIDDY about the PERFORMANCE being improved [09:09] schestowitz "how do you know Intel works with intel agencies?" [09:10] schestowitz "DUDE! It's in the name ;-)" [09:13] vZS1 Assuming developers know anything about the details of E2EE [09:13] schestowitz vZS1: is it something you're familiar with: [09:13] schestowitz interactions with govt. [09:13] schestowitz inc. for blidn people [09:13] schestowitz can they insist you use an "app"? [09:13] schestowitz or some other electronic means [09:14] schestowitz while denying physical presence, dealing with physical documents etc.? [09:14] vZS1 schestowitz: what's the context? I don't remember why I wrote that [09:14] schestowitz I reckon there are laws that mandate fallbacks at the least [09:14] schestowitz Heron House [09:14] schestowitz I insist on doing it the paper way [09:14] schestowitz no "apps" [09:14] vZS1 Oh okay [09:15] schestowitz I told them I won't get someone's 'phone' to do it [09:15] vZS1 I thought you were quoting me [09:15] vZS1 Yes. I insist on physical as well [09:15] vZS1 But for the added reason of preserving jobs for humans [09:16] schestowitz that too [09:16] schestowitz but it's a side matter here [09:16] schestowitz as it's not a law thing [09:16] vZS1 Just thought I'd mention it, in passing [09:16] schestowitz you cannot insist that as a matter of law you "want to secure people's jobs" [09:18] vZS1 I always insist on paper. [09:18] schestowitz I am preparing an article about it [09:18] vZS1 Especially when it's low-volume paperwork. [09:18] schestowitz this can take months [09:18] vZS1 Take your time [09:18] schestowitz I need to know which laws to cite [09:18] schestowitz notes (informal) so far: [09:18] schestowitz December 10th 2020: went to Town Hall, as explained in the site, at the specified time with all the documents and a laptop, only to be told the service is not available due to COVID but can instead be done at the Post Office [09:18] schestowitz Went to the Post Office, only to be told they don't do any of that and at least two people had been similar misdirected earlier in the same day [09:18] schestowitz Went back to Town Hall, only to face a different person, who barely even apologised for the misdirection and use "COVID" as a catch-all excuse, instead suggesting contacting the Home Office or instead use some Android "app" (which is out of the question) [09:18] schestowitz What if we were disabled or blind? What about options that are paper-based? [09:19] vZS1 I'd be interested to know about laws covering this area [09:19] schestowitz an "app-only" government would be a travesty for many reasons; like rendering you a non-citizens for refusing to carry around a so-called 'phone' that tracks your movement more closely than RFID [09:19] schestowitz vZS1: maybe look into it [09:20] vZS1 Other tasks higher on the list atm [09:20] schestowitz I wonder if they also changed the coins the artificially reduce the money supply [09:20] schestowitz it would be helpful to know how many "old coins" there are compared to "new ones" [09:21] schestowitz The thinking is, they try to impose financial surveillance by "going digital" [09:23] vZS1 There needs to be more legislation around surveillance. Because new technology will always make it easier to carry out surveillance. They might start tracking individual bank notes and aggregate that with recognition data. [09:24] vZS1 So cash-only isn't going to stop surveillance [09:24] vZS1 It is important to maintain cash, yes [09:24] vZS1 But we need legislation that allows people to sue the government [09:25] vZS1 More ammunition against "emergency measures" [09:25] vZS1 Right now surveillance machine operates like an absolute monarch. It isn't held accountable and is above the law. [09:26] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: May we live long and die out | http://vhemt.org/) [09:28] vZS1 The assumption that everyone is a criminal is the default now. So this throws "innocent until proven guilty" out the window. I'm no lawyer but this should hold up in any non-kangaroo court. [09:28] vZS1 This argument* [09:29] vZS1 If someone is spying on you by default, you should be able to take legal action against them. This is currently not the case. [09:30] vZS1 Because "emergency measures". [09:32] vZS1 Right now data surveillance is analogous to breaking into someone's house without a warrant [09:32] vZS1 This needs to stop and fast [09:36] vZS1 And it's also a huge waste of money. People that know what they're doing are practically immune to these measures. Analogous to DRM. [09:37] schestowitz [09:25] Right now surveillance machine operates like an absolute monarch. It isn't held accountable and is above the law. [09:37] schestowitz this is why we need TECHNICAL measure [09:37] schestowitz to overcome this [09:37] schestowitz freesw can overcome state-mandated/imposed back doors [09:37] schestowitz usually [09:37] schestowitz assuming that freesw isn't itself infiltrated [09:37] schestowitz don't connect to things when not needed ('phone') [09:38] vZS1 They'll ban them [09:38] vZS1 Look at what's happening with E2EE [09:38] schestowitz when browsing more sensitive things, don't use your own connection, or use tor etc. [09:38] vZS1 They want to make E2EE illegal. That's their end goal [09:38] schestowitz they cannot [09:39] schestowitz well, with shithub they are a step closer [09:39] schestowitz under the guise of extra security now they want to edit people's code in their repos [09:39] schestowitz and soon they'll also 'fix' the binaries [09:39] schestowitz for 'security' [09:39] schestowitz this is something the media missed [09:39] schestowitz or played along [09:39] schestowitz as in, Microsoft keeps your code more secure [09:39] schestowitz while in NSA PRISM [09:40] schestowitz greater awareness about it is necessary [09:40] schestowitz "hosting in github" [09:40] schestowitz = 'compromised' [09:40] vZS1 Someone needs to foot "the media's" bills. Because "the media" is not a sustainable business. [09:40] schestowitz not interested, not for security/privacy [09:40] schestowitz and some people who insinuate you're nuts for suggesting so [09:41] schestowitz yes, "the media" is sponsored [09:41] schestowitz techrights mentions that a lot in passing [09:41] vZS1 youtube-dl shows us who was right [09:41] schestowitz some decent journalists seem to have mandatory PR to do [09:41] schestowitz like PR "assignments" [09:41] schestowitz to keep the salaries coming [09:42] schestowitz I need more help with delete github [09:42] schestowitz some people appeal to "scale" [09:42] schestowitz either, "everyone uses it" [09:42] schestowitz or, "it's only you complaining" [09:42] schestowitz magnify, minify [sic] [09:42] schestowitz big = good [09:42] schestowitz small = wrong [09:42] schestowitz big media = accurate [09:42] vZS1 Who said GitHub scales? [09:43] schestowitz small media = conspiracy" [09:43] schestowitz "many use github" = it must be good [09:43] vZS1 GitHub chokes on big patches [09:43] schestowitz FSF = small, hence "fringe" [09:43] schestowitz I did not mean scale in that sense [09:43] schestowitz by "appeal to scale" I meant something else [09:43] vZS1 I'm not endorsing FSF in any way, shape, nor form. [09:43] schestowitz "sole advocate"= crazy [09:44] schestowitz "big corporation" = credible [09:44] schestowitz so you wind up having to grow the team of faking size [09:44] schestowitz just to be taken seriously [09:44] schestowitz notice how EPO plays this game [09:44] schestowitz bribing the media [09:44] schestowitz and then pretending that the staff's voice is just "vocal minority" [09:45] schestowitz while squashing, attacking, censoring those who give them a voice" [09:45] schestowitz this is the colonialism modus operandi [09:45] vZS1 This is how propaganda machine operates. [09:45] schestowitz also to deomoralise the dissenters [09:45] schestowitz making them feel smaller than they are [09:45] schestowitz Microsoft had done that to Linux for decades [09:45] schestowitz until it started the "loves Linux" PR [09:45] schestowitz anyway, let's stop there [09:45] schestowitz and get back on topic [09:46] vZS1 Which reminds me [09:46] schestowitz nothing new about the above [09:46] schestowitz I will carry on chasing Town Hall [09:46] schestowitz they will find out, [09:46] schestowitz it's the TECHS who reject tech [09:46] schestowitz like "swiping cards" [09:46] vZS1 cybrNaut: any updates about the piece on Facebook and the police? [09:46] schestowitz with insecure chipping [09:46] schestowitz and erosion of customer services [09:47] schestowitz the non-techs swallow it all, thinking they'll seem "techy" for swiping and paying $2000 for a 'phone' [09:47] vZS1 I convinced my mother that expensive phones are a scam [09:47] schestowitz patent tax and brand premium [09:47] schestowitz she pays for the ads [09:47] vZS1 Yeah [09:47] schestowitz the ones that brainwash her [09:48] schestowitz "what kind of IDIOT uses a SMART phone??" [09:48] vZS1 I'm the tech person on the family. When they see my cheap phones are quicker than their bloated ones, they can't really argue. [09:48] schestowitz (contrary to what the ads teach people) [09:49] vZS1 As obvious as it may sound [09:49] vZS1 People forget ads are marketing [09:50] vZS1 The sole purpose of which is to increase sales and not educate nor provide improvements [09:51] vZS1 I get called out for pointing out the obvious a lot. But it's important to bring up the fundamentals. [09:51] schestowitz http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2020/12/11/neurim-and-flynn-v-mylan-a-case-put-to-bed/ [09:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Neurim and Flynn v Mylan - A case put to bed? - Kluwer Patent Blog [09:51] schestowitz "Melatonex advertisement for 3 mg of melatonin as a sleeping aid was dismissed as mere advertising puff' [09:54] schestowitz the media is an extension of the copyright cartel [09:54] schestowitz few firms have a grip on everything [09:54] schestowitz like papers, CD shops, distribution channels [09:54] schestowitz which are connected to what's advertised [09:54] schestowitz so if you work outside their loop, it is an uphill battle [09:55] schestowitz the same is true for games, e.g. Steam [09:55] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [09:55] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [09:55] schestowitz the distribution channels become a (near) monopoly. "Apps stores..." [09:55] schestowitz Facebook shifted the monopoly somewhat, but not in a good way [09:56] schestowitz and we know why Microsoft operates ShitHub at a loss [09:56] schestowitz we need to make sure it's a write-off like Nokia [09:56] schestowitz losses each quarter [09:56] schestowitz plus loss on purchasing price [09:56] schestowitz total losses maybe 15 billion [09:56] schestowitz and Satya gets sacked [09:56] schestowitz like Ballmer (sort of pushed out) [09:56] schestowitz they bleed while grifting now [09:57] schestowitz layoffs, losses, defrauding shareholders, getting bailout money from taxpayers [09:57] schestowitz they are riding the money of investors whom they lie to and taxpayers' money as well [09:57] schestowitz while Windows is 'sold' for nothing or negative pricing ● Dec 12 [10:00] vZS1 Some time in the new year I'll do another guest editorial post on Shithub. [10:03] vZS1 There needs to be an article citing all the ShitHub dirt and also from someone that actually maintains Git repos and works with very large software projects. [10:03] schestowitz we have many articles, but not collated in one wiki page [10:03] schestowitz maybe one day figosdev can run his scripts to bind those together [10:03] vZS1 I'll do it like the E2EE piece. A long form. Is that alright? [10:04] schestowitz he maintains an index here http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Delete_Github [10:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Delete Github - Techrights [10:04] schestowitz yes, any guest article from a person who knows what she or he writes about [10:04] schestowitz I rarely write about things I don't understand, unlike the "big" media [10:04] schestowitz the "trump says" and "bill gates says" pieces [10:05] schestowitz one clueless person citing a liar or another clueless person [10:05] schestowitz appeal to authority based on role/money [10:05] schestowitz RICH paper quotes RICH person on RICH people's stuff [10:05] schestowitz corporate media in a nutshell [10:05] schestowitz with few exceptions to save face [10:05] vZS1 Those Gates videos you sent yesterday were good [10:06] schestowitz spread them, I guess [10:06] vZS1 Now I can send those to people that need to see them [10:06] vZS1 Yeah [10:06] schestowitz I don't watch TV, but apparently it's full of Gates-funded puff pieces [10:06] schestowitz media is a service [10:06] vZS1 TR has a lot. So it's a learning process for me [10:06] schestowitz for those whom it covered [10:06] vZS1 I haven't watched TV in over a decade [10:06] schestowitz those whom it targets are the "PRODUCT" [10:07] vZS1 If I use the TV it's just as a display [10:07] schestowitz I had a TV 2 decades ago [10:07] schestowitz With shit on it [10:07] schestowitz like Graham Norton and stuff [10:07] schestowitz "talk show" nonsense [10:07] schestowitz cheap to make [10:07] schestowitz and lots of mindless crap [10:07] vZS1 I think the TR front page could use some simplification btw [10:08] schestowitz maybe it ought to [10:08] schestowitz the site is mainly wiki, blog, assets like PDFs and videos etc. [10:08] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [10:09] vZS1 Yeah. I'd streamline to highlight that stuff. And have a separate "site index" page for people that want to explore [10:09] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [10:09] vZS1 Highlight your PGP key on the front page as well. With contact details. [10:10] vZS1 I struggled to find out where things were until I participated in IRC. [10:11] vZS1 Maybe a good project for next year. [10:15] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/12/12/mou-open-letter/ [10:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Two Years Ago SUEPO Discussed Rules of Strike With Antnio Campinos and 3 Days From Now EPO Staff in All Sites Goes on Strike | Techrights [10:15] schestowitz achievement unlocked [10:15] schestowitz 7000 people on strike [10:16] schestowitz (up to) [10:16] schestowitz vZS1: re front page, let us complete server migration first [10:16] schestowitz some time this month, Ariadne said she'd have time this weekend [10:17] schestowitz as a side perk, it's also a hardware/spec upgrade [10:18] vZS1 Cool [10:18] vZS1 > schestowitz: vZS1: re front page, let us complete server migration first [10:18] vZS1 That's why I said for next year [10:36] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [10:36] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [10:36] *aindilis` (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights [10:39] *aindilis has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [10:44] schestowitz need assistance [10:44] schestowitz over the next 1-2 hours [10:45] schestowitz "this grant is administered by our legal and fiscal sponsor Software Freedom Conservancy, a not-for-profit charity that promotes software freedom." [10:45] schestowitz https://godotengine.org/article/godot-engine-receiving-support-funded-facebook-reality-labs [10:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-godotengine.org | Godot Engine - Godot Engine receiving support funded by Facebook Reality Labs [10:45] schestowitz What does this really mean? [10:45] schestowitz I know Godot works with Microsoft [10:45] schestowitz and took money from Microsoft [10:45] schestowitz and outsources everything to ShitHub [10:45] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [10:45] schestowitz how does that fit into SFC's role? [10:47] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [10:53] MinceR 12 114535 < schestowitz> I know Godot works with Microsoft [10:53] MinceR i didn't know that [10:54] Ariadne i only work with the jellycat(tm) stuffed animal company of london, england [10:56] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [10:59] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [11:02] Ariadne also i have a massive hangover (: [11:05] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [11:11] Techrights-sec https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q16972633 [11:11] Techrights-sec https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Godot [11:11] Techrights-sec https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-04-14-what-is-the-best-game-engine-is-godot-right-fo [11:11] Techrights-sec r-you [11:11] Techrights-sec It uses C++ but is also afflicted with M$ C$ [11:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.wikidata.org | Godot - Wikidata [11:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-directory.fsf.org | Godot - Free Software Directory [11:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2020-04-14-what-is-the-best-game-engine-is-godot-right-fo ) [11:12] schestowitz I want to better understand what the role of SFC is in there; is it now some sort of accounting middleman? This is a new sort of role to me... [11:23] *oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [11:23] psydroid Microsoft has been buying game studios over the years and is taking Xbox, Game Pass etc. quite seriously [11:23] *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights [11:24] psydroid They don't want to lose whatever there is left of the home user market [11:38] schestowitz #FOSSlife Team is a joke. Posting #proprietarySoftware junk for #microsoft UNBELIEVABLE!!! Who does #LPI work for now? https://www.fosslife.org/xbox-expand-cloud-gaming-ios-and-pc-2021 [11:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fosslife.org | Xbox to Expand Cloud Gaming to iOS and PC in 2021 [11:38] schestowitz Linux Professional Institute Inc.: We post ads and spam for #microsoft so you will get #ProprietarySoftware and malware that spies on you in your bedroom. UNBELIEVABLE, LPI! Even the corrupt #linuxfoundation did not go that far. [11:38] schestowitz yesterday: http://schestowitz.com/2020/12/11/ [11:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts [11:39] Techrights-sec The SFC is rather opaque. [11:39] Techrights-sec ? https://godotengine.org/article/godot-engine-receiving-support-funded-facebook-reality-labs [11:39] schestowitz Why is SFC needed as a third wheel or mule here? Seems suspicious for a nonprofit. [11:40] Ariadne SFC acts as accounting entity for some projects [11:41] Techrights-sec Mule or front for laungering like activities? [11:41] Techrights-sec ^laundering [11:41] schestowitz This seems as stinky as the LF, which SFC moaned about years ago (before SFC took Microsoft cash and sold Microsoft keynotes) [11:43] Ariadne they take money in and then developers invoice the SFC for payment [11:43] Ariadne these days i don't know why anyone would bother with that when you can just use opencollective [11:44] Ariadne and then bigger projects have to have their own infrastructure for this anyway [11:45] schestowitz SPI does arch [11:45] schestowitz and many other non-Debian projects [11:45] schestowitz but SFC? [11:45] schestowitz is that an SFC thing now? And since when? [11:45] Ariadne that was the original purpose of SFC [11:45] schestowitz tax exemption sieve? [11:45] Ariadne yes, basically [11:45] schestowitz SFC was made for GPL enforcement [11:45] Ariadne no [11:45] Ariadne GPL enforcement came later [11:46] schestowitz I suppose I need to read up on it [11:46] Ariadne after they decided moglen wasn't doing a good job [11:46] Ariadne its a huge mess [11:46] Techrights-sec opencollective is well hidden? [11:46] Ariadne conservancy was started by SFLC to be what would now be called a fiscal host for projects [11:46] Ariadne opencollective isn't that well hidden, a lot of projects use it [11:47] schestowitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Freedom_Conservancy [11:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Software Freedom Conservancy - Wikipedia [11:47] schestowitz "In 2007 Conservancy started coordinating GNU General Public License compliance and enforcement actions, primarily for the BusyBox project [4] (see BusyBox GPL lawsuits)." [11:47] Ariadne yeah [11:47] Ariadne thats because bradley kuhn had a falling out with moglen (SFLC) [11:47] Ariadne and took conservancy independent [11:47] schestowitz SFLC is also legal work [11:47] schestowitz not accounting afaik [11:47] Ariadne but conservancy has been doing project administration since 2004 [11:47] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [11:48] Ariadne i'm not a fan, but to each their own [11:48] schestowitz "Software Freedom Conservancy is an organization that provides a non-profit home and infrastructure support, including legal services" [11:48] schestowitz That's how they present themselves [11:48] schestowitz doesn't say anything about money handling [11:49] schestowitz so SFC is like a 'community' bank now [11:49] schestowitz and it's taking money from dodgy companies [11:49] schestowitz Salesforce, Google, Microsoft... [11:49] schestowitz hardly what I'd consider true to its mission [11:49] Ariadne infrastructure as in administration infrastructure [11:49] Ariadne not like IT stuff [11:50] schestowitz Past directors include: [11:50] schestowitz Stormy Peters [11:50] schestowitz LOL!!!! [11:50] Ariadne in fairness when SFC was started a lot of projects were DIYing this stuff [11:51] Ariadne and a ton of people got in trouble with the IRS [11:51] Ariadne and if there's somebody you never wanna be in trouble with [11:51] Ariadne the IRS is it [11:51] Ariadne (: [11:51] MinceR just do it the way the cult of scientology did [11:51] MinceR infiltrate the IRS, become tax exempt [11:51] schestowitz MinceR: no nee [11:51] schestowitz need [11:51] schestowitz gnu is a church already [11:52] schestowitz RMS even got the costumes and everything [11:52] schestowitz halo [11:52] schestowitz gown [11:52] schestowitz robe whatever [11:52] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [11:52] Ariadne i have a witch hat does that count for something [11:52] schestowitz "stay the fuck away, IRS, of you are racist and sexist and stuff" [11:52] schestowitz *or [11:52] schestowitz Ariadne: does a spaghetti strainer count? [11:53] Ariadne yeah i dont think you can cancel the IRS [11:53] schestowitz it has a practical function, too [11:53] MinceR lol [11:53] MinceR it would be hilarious [11:53] schestowitz https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor [11:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.propublica.org | IRS: Sorry, but Its Just Easier and Cheaper to Audit the Poor ProPublica [11:53] Ariadne they will just be like "ok well, we are docking your bank account ending in ****1234 $170,000 per court order" [11:53] schestowitz IRS is defunct [11:54] schestowitz it doesn't go after the biggest culprit [11:54] schestowitz "too expensive" [11:54] Ariadne i assure you they are very much alive [11:54] Ariadne considering i have to pay them $700 quarterly [11:54] schestowitz not where they should be [11:54] schestowitz like enforcement against Microsoft [11:54] Ariadne microsoft, amazon, google [11:54] Ariadne i'd like to see those three in tax court [11:55] Ariadne popcorn please :) [11:55] schestowitz are you crazy? in covid time? [11:55] schestowitz they don't even do court hearings now [11:55] schestowitz they bypass the law [11:55] Ariadne they do, via zoom [11:55] schestowitz they do the equivalent of, you can cheat with a judge over the telephone while she's in her pajamas [11:56] schestowitz *chat [11:56] schestowitz not cheay [11:56] Ariadne i mean [11:56] schestowitz though it's also easy to cheat the court over "link" rather than in person [11:56] MinceR aren't they all sufficiently entangled with the government that they're above the law already? [11:56] Ariadne pajamas are pretty great [11:56] schestowitz pajamas justice [11:56] schestowitz thanks, covid [11:57] schestowitz read comments in http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2020/12/10/vico-for-oral-proceedings-at-the-epo-cipas-view/ [11:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | ViCo for Oral Proceedings at the EPO CIPAs view - Kluwer Patent Blog [11:57] Ariadne anyway [11:58] Ariadne i would still like to see those three companies in tax court [11:58] Ariadne it will never happen of course [11:58] *scientes has quit (Changing host) [11:58] *scientes (~scientes@unaffiliated/scientes) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [12:01] schestowitz not just those 3 [12:01] schestowitz and not just tax companies [12:01] schestowitz some oil companies RECEIVE tax money [12:01] schestowitz not just avoid paying tax [12:01] schestowitz we need a "system reset" [12:01] schestowitz and that would include retroactively fining all the above [12:01] schestowitz for buying off the system and amassing stolen capital [12:11] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/704941.jpg [12:13] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [12:13] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [12:15] schestowitz MinceR: what's that taste like? [12:15] schestowitz "it stings" [12:16] MinceR probably bad [12:16] schestowitz beeyers remorse [12:21] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/704921.jpg [12:21] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [12:23] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [12:23] *aindilis` has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [12:33] *birkoff has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [12:38] *xvx (~xvx@185.48.63.105) has joined #techrights [12:49] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-sxctxfmxraxhssen) has joined #techrights [12:55] MinceR (cat) https://full.pr0gramm.com/2020/09/12/39ef619fb52c77f7.jpg ● Dec 12 [13:41] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [13:42] *inky (~inky@141.136.76.18) has joined #techrights [13:45] *vZS1_2 (~vZS1_2@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [13:48] schestowitz vZS1: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2020/12/12/tech-versus-human-rights/ [13:48] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive COVID May Have Caused (or Helped) the UK Home Office and Manchester Town Hall to Violate Basic Laws or Fundamental Human Rights [13:48] schestowitz I put my notes there, will resume at a later date [13:48] schestowitz maybe January [13:49] schestowitz depending on covid [13:49] schestowitz we're in Tier 3 for now [13:49] schestowitz December 16th might change that [13:49] vZS1_2 Giving it a look now [13:49] schestowitz Town Hall will say "Speak to Home Office" [13:49] schestowitz so I will [13:49] schestowitz they don't scare me [13:49] vZS1_2 They shouldn't. They're public servants. Their job is the serve the public. [13:50] vZS1_2 s/is the/is to/ [13:50] schestowitz serve=tell the public "GET DA APP!" [13:56] vZS1_2 "They literally want people to take selfies of themselves and then send that to the Home Office, then send sensitive documents over phones with back doors." [13:56] vZS1_2 This is also true for ordering prescriptions online. [13:57] vZS1_2 Someone wanted me to sign them up for online prescriptions. The online service was asking for a picture/scan of their passport. [13:57] vZS1_2 Unacceptable. [13:57] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-vbmiurdmzoxhncgh) has joined #techrights [13:57] vZS1_2 An email was sent to the surgery, and they sent the person a text message with another link. [13:58] vZS1_2 Even though the email/ticket explicitly stated no passport scan/picture will be sent. They still wanted it. [13:58] vZS1_2 Either they are uneducated and illiterate or they want the passport on their systems really bad. [13:58] vZS1_2 I assume the lateer. [13:58] vZS1_2 s/lateer/latter [13:59] vZS1_2 I pick up these prescriptions for said individual in person but they're using covid as an excuse to force people online. ● Dec 12 [14:00] vZS1_2 And all the identification/registration procesurdes that are alternatives to sending a picture/scan of a passport seem to end up with infinite loops. [14:00] vZS1_2 This stinks of survillance by proxy. [14:00] vZS1_2 s/survillance/surveillance [14:02] vZS1_2 I'm not going to back down on this. I'm keeping records of every single email and message. Priting them all out for evidence in case they try to hoodwink me. [14:02] schestowitz good [14:02] schestowitz then write about it [14:02] vZS1_2 That was the plan [14:02] schestowitz maybe we can do a series about this in techrights [14:02] schestowitz not a subject we focus on typically [14:03] schestowitz but can be helpful nevertheless [14:03] schestowitz the US has the same issues [14:03] schestowitz I heard stories here in IRC [14:03] schestowitz like people being asked for ID when entering the library [14:03] schestowitz they did this to DaemonFC[m] [14:03] schestowitz and then they hunted him down [14:03] schestowitz for refusing to show an ID [14:03] *rianne has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [14:03] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [14:04] vZS1_2 People should never send a scan of their passport online. That's madness. [14:04] schestowitz passport copies should not be saved on their WIndows systems BTW, I'm pretty sure this violates not only GDPR [14:04] schestowitz they probably upload it to some US clown [14:04] schestowitz at least "For backup" [14:04] schestowitz [14:04] People should never send a scan of their passport online. That's madness. [14:04] schestowitz Twitter asked for the same from me [14:04] schestowitz to get "verified" [14:05] schestowitz that was ages ago [14:05] schestowitz because some accounts forged mine [14:05] schestowitz FB apparently still asks people to upload IDs [14:05] vZS1_2 Anyone can then just send a scan. That's bullshit not authentication. [14:05] schestowitz or worse: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dbloom/2018/05/24/facebook-wants-your-nude-photos-what-could-possibly-go-wrong/ [14:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.forbes.com | Facebook Wants Your Nude Photos; What Could Possibly Go Wrong? [14:06] vZS1_2 Defeats the whole point of a physical passport document [14:06] schestowitz vZS1_2: or even play a video to the phone [14:06] schestowitz to pretend another person holds it up [14:06] schestowitz it's not auth [14:06] schestowitz they want not stills now [14:06] schestowitz but videos [14:06] *rianne has quit (Client Quit) [14:06] schestowitz and they store videos of your selfies [14:06] schestowitz as if that proves it's you who sent some docs [14:06] schestowitz this is cheapening the law and regulations [14:06] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [14:07] schestowitz vZS1_2: holograms on passports matter [14:07] *vZS1_2 has quit (Quit: vZS1_2) [14:07] schestowitz don't get me started about people who upload visa scans to their facebook timelines [14:07] schestowitz sometimes even password cover pages [14:07] schestowitz to "brag" [14:07] schestowitz and get "likes" and "comments" [14:11] *rianne has quit (Client Quit) [14:11] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [14:17] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [14:17] vZS1 Not even surprised anymore [14:17] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [14:18] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [14:20] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [14:26] *aindilis (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [15:11] MinceR (audio:important) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac [15:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-George Carlin Talks About "Stuff" - YouTube [15:26] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/teleporter-3 [15:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Teleporter [15:54] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/economist-2 [15:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Economist [15:56] *Blukunfando has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) ● Dec 12 [16:02] *aindilis has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [16:33] MinceR (cat) https://full.pr0gramm.com/2020/09/12/f2f10ad0bfd2cb53.jpg [16:40] *rianne has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [16:40] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [16:46] *aindilis (~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #techrights [16:49] *rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [16:50] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [16:54] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [16:54] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [17:13] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [17:41] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [17:41] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [17:41] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [17:41] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-vbmiurdmzoxhncgh) has joined #techrights [17:43] *esaym153 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [17:44] *esaym153 (~esaym153@net153.net) has joined #techrights [17:46] schestowitz -comics | more in http://schestowitz.com/2020/12/12/#latest [17:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts [17:46] schestowitz >> ... Unfortunately this is really common-- DT was probably the BEST of [17:46] schestowitz >> the guys doing stuff like this. And that's saying so very little, [17:46] schestowitz >> sadly. He's still on "Open Source"-- and it shows. It really shows. [17:46] schestowitz >> Open Source isn't activism, it's more like a circus where Free [17:46] schestowitz >> Software devs are the bears and clowns. Corporations are the [17:46] schestowitz >> ringleader. Sucks. [17:46] schestowitz > His earlier Unfettered Freedom had been rather good, and most [17:46] schestowitz > unfortunately I must agree with the above assessment that DT was [17:46] schestowitz > probably the best of the guys doing those kinds of video. [17:46] schestowitz > [17:46] schestowitz > " ... You just assume [17:46] schestowitz > 05:00they're always gonna be like that. Kinda like Microsoft. [17:46] schestowitz > For decades Microsoft was so anti- Free Software, anti- Open [17:46] schestowitz > Source, anti- Linux you know for a while they really had to [17:46] schestowitz > prove it to us that they were actually serious about working [17:46] schestowitz > with the Open Source community and doing good stuff with open [17:46] schestowitz > source software and quite frankly Microsoft is starting to [17:46] schestowitz > change my mind a little bit with what they are doing but Apple, [17:46] schestowitz > Apple hasn't even gotten onto that road yet. [17:46] schestowitz > 05:30So Linus goes on to say ..." [17:46] schestowitz > [17:46] schestowitz > https://lbry.tv/@DistroTube:2/unfettered-freedom-ep-12-linus-on-m1-mac:b [17:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lbry.tv | Unfettered Freedom Ep. 12 - Linus on M1 Mac, Snaps 2020, Funtoo, Sabayon, Fedora Pipewire, Systemd [17:46] schestowitz > [17:46] schestowitz > M$ has proved something to me lately and has been changing /my/ mind [17:46] schestowitz > about their behavior. It has proved that they've gotten more sneaky, [17:46] schestowitz > more malicious, more political, and more destructive. So my mind has [17:46] schestowitz > been changing in that I have been realizing that as much as I eschewed [17:46] schestowitz > their products, methodology, and proponents, I was too soft on M$ and [17:47] schestowitz > its boosters. [17:47] schestowitz > [17:47] schestowitz > As for Apple, it was fully into Open Source for a while and the future [17:47] schestowitz > there was looking bright for a couple of years when Steve Jobs was [17:47] schestowitz > working with NextStep-based technologies in OS X. [17:47] schestowitz > [17:47] schestowitz > https://opensource.apple.com/ [17:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-opensource.apple.com | Open Source - Releases [17:47] schestowitz > https://developer.apple.com/opensource/ [17:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-developer.apple.com | Open Source - Apple Developer [17:47] schestowitz > [17:47] schestowitz > So Apple was not only on that road and leading the way for a while, it [17:47] schestowitz > actively stepped off and went off in a bad direction, in particular in [17:47] schestowitz > the direction of software patents. You can see that even today with [17:47] schestowitz > their supporting reasoning behind their decision to switch from bash to [17:47] schestowitz > zsh. There are technical reasons to do so, but they are having none of [17:47] schestowitz > that. [17:47] schestowitz > [17:47] schestowitz > https://thenextweb.com/dd/2019/06/04/why-does-macos-catalina-use-zsh-instead-of-bash-licensing/ [17:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-thenextweb.com | Why does macOS Catalina use Zsh instead of Bash? Licensing [17:47] schestowitz > [17:47] schestowitz > However, Apple never got the Freedom aspects and only worked with OSS [17:47] schestowitz > and won't for the foreseeable future. [17:49] DaemonFC[m] Dr. Evil voice: "Yeah, how bout no!?" [17:49] *jpli (~quassel@2806:106e:24:3e42::3) has joined #techrights [17:49] DaemonFC[m] On the Facebook wants your nudes thing. [17:51] schestowitz so the revenge pornographer will do it [17:51] schestowitz they want to "compare" [17:51] schestowitz send us your pics [17:51] DaemonFC[m] Because Apple doesn't care about backwards compatibility and zsh uses a pushover license. [17:52] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [17:52] DaemonFC[m] Their version of bash didn't get anything except a few security updates written by Apple since 2007. [17:52] schestowitz If there's no "revenge", the pics will be on the "Clown" regardless [17:52] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [17:53] *jpli has quit (Client Quit) [17:54] *rianne has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [17:54] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [17:54] *rianne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:54] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [17:56] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: got a reply for you: [17:56] schestowitz > This one actually ISN'T about DFC, but you would think that someone who [17:56] schestowitz > reads, or even proofreads TR would have been less optimistic than that. [17:56] schestowitz > [17:56] schestowitz > "Clown" and Free Software are like oil and water-- Clown means you don't [17:56] schestowitz > control your computing, clowns do. And IBM is a clown company, so we [17:56] schestowitz > already knew what they would do to Red Hat-- stick a big squirting [17:56] schestowitz > flower into it and turn it into Clown Hat. [17:56] schestowitz > [17:56] schestowitz > DaemonFC[m] [17:56] schestowitz > I was hoping that more good than harm would come from IBM merging with [17:56] schestowitz > Red Hat. [17:56] schestowitz > [17:56] schestowitz > DaemonFC[m] [17:56] schestowitz > That they would have a bunch of money and more or less leave it alone. [17:56] schestowitz > [17:56] schestowitz > DaemonFC[m] [17:56] schestowitz > Now they don't appear to be interested in a lot except keeping RHEL [17:56] schestowitz > around in someone else's chains. [17:56] schestowitz A day or so before centos was 'canned' [17:56] schestowitz on 09/12/2020 09:34 [17:56] *jpli (~quassel@2806:106e:24:3e42::3) has joined #techrights [17:57] schestowitz vZS1 also got this reply from fig: [17:57] schestowitz > Not that he doesn't know what he's talking about, but FFS, even with X [17:57] schestowitz > you would be shocked how lightweight it is. It's like they took an [17:57] schestowitz > existing distro, cut all the crap and did everything right. May not [17:57] schestowitz > apply to FreeBSD. NetBSD isn't bad but it has a terrible installer, one [17:57] schestowitz > of the worst I've ever used. Worst ever was probably Red Hat 6. [17:57] schestowitz > [17:57] schestowitz > vZS1 [17:57] schestowitz > If you do a BSD install without X, you can then build a very light [17:57] schestowitz > system on top of that. ● Dec 12 [18:01] schestowitz ------ [18:01] schestowitz 10/12/2020 15:36: [18:01] schestowitz > I've long advocated for these. We already agree on hardwired physical [18:01] schestowitz > switches, but a camera cover is also ideal. Better than tape, and it [18:01] schestowitz > says "we get it." Doesn't really work for the mic of course. [18:01] schestowitz > [18:01] schestowitz > DaemonFC[m] [18:01] schestowitz > MinceR: Looks like they anticipated Windows RATs. [18:01] schestowitz > [18:01] schestowitz > DaemonFC[m] [18:01] schestowitz > There's a privacy shutter on the webcam. [18:30] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [18:37] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:38] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [18:51] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-dwhdevggowweelzf) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [19:40] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [19:40] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [19:40] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [19:40] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-dwhdevggowweelzf) has joined #techrights [19:44] *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:57] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-ujmkuxnctllhvawm) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [20:01] *esaym153 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [20:04] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [20:11] smnthermes test [20:11] smnthermes test2 [20:12] MinceR test3 [20:12] oiaohm schestowitz: Horrible part is not all privacy shutters on webcams work. Does pay to check them. Some cases a webcam that working horrible under normal light someone failed to fit ir filter so when you close privacy shutter they then come a IR camera in lot of case seeing a lot more. [20:13] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [20:13] *birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrights [20:13] *birkoff has quit (Changing host) [20:13] *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-ujmkuxnctllhvawm) has joined #techrights [20:13] oiaohm I prefer the true power cut switch on webcams you know they are dead and not seeing anything then. [20:13] MinceR provided they really work [20:14] MinceR and they aren't just a switch processed by the software or something like that :> [20:14] MinceR a shutter is more obviously engaged [20:14] oiaohm I said true power cut switch as in a physical switch. [20:14] oiaohm Some of the shutter ones do have a proper power switch there. [20:14] oiaohm So you close the shutter magnet moves and the power to the camera goes away. [20:15] oiaohm Basically there are different grades of shutters. [20:15] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [20:16] oiaohm Power cut switch version you normally close the privacy shutter and the camera disappears off USB. [20:16] MinceR nice [20:16] oiaohm Does have the advantage of course of saving some battery when the shutters closed. [20:17] oiaohm Yes it is truly nice. [20:17] MinceR and the disadvantage of screwing with applications if you just temporarily want to hide your picture :> [20:17] oiaohm Yes and no. [20:18] oiaohm Some of those items have a software proxy driver on the camera. [20:18] MinceR :) [20:18] oiaohm So the disappearing camera to software is fixable from software. [20:19] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/defuse [20:19] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Defuse [20:19] oiaohm There is a little extra stall opening the shutter back up before the camera comes alive in the power cut version with proxy. [20:20] oiaohm But for security I think its worth it losing like 3 to 4 frames after openning shutter before it starts working. [20:21] oiaohm It also provides a little opps window of you bumped the shuttter to get it closed before camera in fact works. [20:31] vZS1 Best way to deactivate a webcam [20:31] vZS1 Only use USB ones [20:32] vZS1 Literally unplug [20:32] vZS1 Job done [20:33] oiaohm vZS1: there are fun little USB switch items. [20:33] vZS1 Also, fig, I wasn't saying X is bloat. I meant to say it's a lot better to do a manual X setup. They try to smuggle a lot of things in a graphical install, in the name of "UX". [20:34] vZS1 And servers have absolutely zero need for an X install on them. [20:34] vZS1 FreeBSD doesn't install X by default [20:36] vZS1 I also agree NetBSD is difficult for the non-sysadmin to install. Even new sysadmins will struggle because you need to know a lot about the entire chain of unix components to get a working NetBSD install. But it's worth the hassle, in some cases. More architectures supported, by default. Then again, I think our best bet is to fork OpenBSD with AGPLv3. [20:37] vZS1 Writing basic device drivers isn't actually that hard. The main struggle is device data sheets. [20:38] vZS1 Most hardware doesn't did ship with a datasheet and they don't all comply with well-known standards. [20:38] vZS1 Someone familiar with C-like languages can cobble together basic drivers. [20:38] oiaohm Its all the odd ball quirks [20:39] vZS1 They just need to learn a bit about memory management and interrupts. Programming a microcontroller like the Arduino is actually a great way to learn how to do this. [20:40] vZS1 It's also cheap to learn because you will brick a few devices when you are learning how to program drivers. [20:40] oiaohm Its scary that about 80 percent of the amdgpu driver is in fact quirks in the Linux kenrel. 1million lines of code with about 800 thousand lines been how to deal with different quirks in different builds of the hardware. [20:40] oiaohm Making a drivers fairly straight forwards until you have to deal with how many ways someone making the hardware you are trying to control can screw up. [20:41] vZS1 You can even piggyback off the Linux drivers available and port them to a BSD. A lot if BSD programmers already do this. [20:41] vZS1 s/a lot if/a lot of/ [20:41] oiaohm Some drivers can be ported out of Linux to BSD due to being MIT license. [20:41] oiaohm Not all. [20:42] vZS1 psydroid: any update on that PGP key? [20:48] kingoffrance there is tinyx lib i have built on bsds to remote display from headless servers. probably missing many extensions, but so much smaller if thats all you need is x libraries and nothing else so you can run x apps and display elsewhere [20:49] kingoffrance i really dont think its maintained though [20:49] kingoffrance would be nice if there was a maintained one that wasnt ancient [20:55] psydroid vZS1: I have just generated one, how do you want me to make it available to you? ● Dec 12 [21:05] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/20080530 [21:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4803610) [21:12] vZS1 psydroid: did you get the DM? [21:13] psydroid vZS1, I'm afraid I didn't [21:15] vZS1 I tried again [21:16] psydroid Ok, let me try another way [21:17] *psychicist (~psychicis@2001:1c00:1623:2000:eb1a:65b7:1cef:c7f7) has joined #techrights [21:28] DaemonFC[m] Well, I anticipated that IBM would be moving on Fedora first, so that was the part that I got wrong. [21:28] *psychicist has quit (Quit: Leaving) [21:29] DaemonFC[m] It doesn't make a lot of sense to keep CentOS around as CentOS Stream and then get rid of Fedora, because CentOS Stream is just pre-release updates for RHEL, essentially turning it into a preview version where a lot of small things may go wrong. [21:30] DaemonFC[m] And RHEL has had something like this for interested parties for quite some time, where you can turn on updates that they're proposing, so CentOS Stream probably isn't going to last very long. [21:30] DaemonFC[m] Fedora is where things used to go as soon as they were marked as a stable release upstream and Red Hat wanted to get testers and find major problems in Fedora before they ended up in RHEL. [21:32] DaemonFC[m] When they moved on KDE to get rid of it from RHEL, they said don't worry if you use Fedora because this doesn't change anything for you, but it changed plenty. They have absolutely no incentive to even make sure that KDE on Fedora will work properly because it won't even end up in RHEL in any capacity, and so they've de-prioritized KDE to the point where bugs that would be a blocker on any distribution that cared at [21:32] DaemonFC[m] all about it just get shipped. [21:33] DaemonFC[m] It's a pile of packages with no integration at all and nobody doing QA or even looking at the packaging bugs. It was down to two community people and now it's Dieter and a couple of people who are always signed in on Windows and Mac who somehow have packaging permissions. [21:34] DaemonFC[m] If it's not even going to be on their main system and nobody is paying them, they're not going to have to deal with those issues on a daily basis and they won't have incentive to fix them even so they won't run into them repeatedly. [21:35] DaemonFC[m] Fedora's base OS makes a lot of changes that only care if GNOME starts up and works as intended. [21:35] MinceR makes sense though [21:36] DaemonFC[m] Spins have needs, and those needs are unmet. At one point it was down to just one guy packaging Xfce, and before systemd and friends that was all you needed really. [21:36] DaemonFC[m] But with horrible breaking changes all the time and one guy, it's just not going to cut it. [21:36] MinceR these fedora/systemd/gnome/proprietarydesktop people worship and idolize Backdoors and crapOS, so it makes sense that they'd use those instead of systemd/Linux [21:38] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, I noticed that Linux is becoming more of the things I was lampooning Windows about. [21:39] psydroid why don't they try to get hired to work on Backdoors and crapOS then? [21:39] DaemonFC[m] Many of them do. Miguel did. [21:39] MinceR dunno [21:39] psydroid or is their job ruining systemd/Linux even more than they have already done? [21:39] MinceR i guess the redmond mafia likes them where they are [21:40] DaemonFC[m] He auditioned for the job by porting .Net to Linux and got rewarded by Microsoft buying his company and he's rich now. [21:41] DaemonFC[m] For nearly two decades we were led to believe that Mono was just there for no particular reason except that there should be a Free implementation of .Net (patent encumbered) and that there was a community (which all stopped making apps when Novell effectively went bankrupt), and then there was their "I am the Senate!" moment when Microsoft finally did buy them and turn them into a product division. [21:42] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/20080523 [21:42] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4803414) [21:42] DaemonFC[m] It was there all along where Senator Palpatine was grooming people and egging on a fake civil war and paid his accomplices off by killing them when he was finished with the theater they provided. [21:43] DaemonFC[m] Nothing particularly original there. I mean, like any work of fiction it draws from things that actually happened. [21:44] DaemonFC[m] The Night of the Long Knives. Stuff like that. [21:44] DaemonFC[m] Fascists use people and throw them away. Sometimes murdering them if they can get away with it. [21:45] DaemonFC[m] Everyone who does business with Microsoft should reference how well that's gone over in the past, almost every single time. [21:46] DaemonFC[m] The only thing that would have gone differently had Netscape management accepted Microsoft's offer to license Netscape to put it into Windows is that they would have called THAT Internet Explorer and figured out a way to pay maybe $20,000 for it. [21:47] DaemonFC[m] They kept doing this pea and shell with Spyglass Inc. to get Mosaic, and they said an upfront fee (very small) plus ongoing license fees based on our Internet Explorer revenue. [21:49] DaemonFC[m] Then they came back and said "Well, we're giving it away for free so there's no revenue.". [21:50] MinceR and they would have ruined netscape instead [21:51] MinceR setting their idiot "developers" loose on it [21:58] DaemonFC[m] I had more than one lawyer tell me what I was doing was ridiculous at one point and asked me why I was certain what I was doing would work. [21:59] DaemonFC[m] I said I wasn't, but I don't plan for failure. [21:59] DaemonFC[m] When you do that, you start figuring out ways it could happen and then it starts depressing you, and you start sabotaging yourself. [21:59] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) ● Dec 12 [22:00] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [22:39] *balrog has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [22:45] *balrog (~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog) has joined #techrights ● Dec 12 [23:45] *esaym153 (~esaym153@net153.net) has joined #techrights [23:45] *guysoft42 has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) [23:50] *rianne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:50] *rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights