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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Sunday, September 13, 2020

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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers []Sep 13 00:02
*swaggboi ( has joined #techrightsSep 13 00:06
DaemonFC[m]Cinema Sins Terminator 3.Sep 13 00:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Hardware and GNU/Linux on Devices []Sep 13 00:11
DaemonFC[m]"Of all the people in this movie to have a vanity plate, of course it's the pet doctor who probably doesn't make much money and lives in Los Angeles."Sep 13 00:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FreeBSD 12.2 Beta and Benchmarking NetBSD []Sep 13 00:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wasmer, TenFourFox FPR27b1 and Socorro/Firefox []Sep 13 00:18
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Videos/Shows: JavaScript, Going Linux, 7 Unpopular Opinions About Linux and Open Source []Sep 13 00:22
XRevan86Ariadne: Do you still have access to any Pleroma?Sep 13 00:22
XRevan86I mean, as someone who can look at the logs :)Sep 13 00:22
AriadneNoSep 13 00:22
XRevan86:(Sep 13 00:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s leftovers []Sep 13 00:23
XRevan86I tried the remote subscription button, and it didn't work. Some years ago I would've brushed it off but now I think it should actually work, so this doesn't make sense.Sep 13 00:23
Ariadnetbh I think I like GNU Social better these daysSep 13 00:24
Ariadneyou guys wouldn't make a deal with a bigot just to get usersSep 13 00:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s #tuxmachines leftovers #gnu #linux []Sep 13 00:24
XRevan86No bigot offered, but yes.Sep 13 00:24
MinceRusers are overrated :>Sep 13 00:24
XRevan86(no idea what that's about…)Sep 13 00:25
XRevan86I'll try poking around Pleroma's codebase then. Maybe I'll get lucky and find some check that I'll know fails for what GNU social gives as webfinger.Sep 13 00:26
XRevan86Funny that webfinger stuff that Pleroma and Mastodon use to this day is still wired around OStatus. That's comfortable %)Sep 13 00:27
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 13/9/2020: Manjaro 20.1 Mikah, KDE Frameworks 5.74.0, Wine 5.17, Elive 3.8.16 Beta and SystemRescueCd 6.1.8 []Sep 13 00:30
XRevan86nope, nothing catches my eyeSep 13 00:33
XRevan86 cute regex thoughSep 13 00:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | lib/pleroma/web/web_finger/web_finger.ex · develop · Pleroma / pleroma · GitLabSep 13 00:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian Janitor: All Packages Processed with Lintian-Brush []Sep 13 00:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How Emulate an Amiga 1200 on Your Linux PC or Raspberry Pi []Sep 13 00:45
XRevan86Maybe it's the lack of application/ld+json…Sep 13 00:46
AriadnePleroma in it's quest to get users, decided to start collaboration with Alex Gleason who keeps trying to bring TERFs and other bigots to the fediverseSep 13 00:48
Ariadnein the name of "free speech"Sep 13 00:48
Ariadnefree speech means they can download and install the software themselvesSep 13 00:48
schestowitz__[00:24] <MinceR> users are overrated :>Sep 13 00:49
schestowitz__users who use platform to spread shitSep 13 00:49
Ariadnedoesn't mean work with the guy sysadminning their shitSep 13 00:49
Ariadneso I quit :)Sep 13 00:49
schestowitz__gab was sysadmined by same people as Daily Stormer IIRCSep 13 00:50
schestowitz__but gab eventually canned weaverSep 13 00:50
schestowitz__because it became too much of a liabilitySep 13 00:50
Ariadnewell Pleroma making a deal with gab would be bad tooSep 13 00:50
Ariadneit's ok clearly I found other things to do :)Sep 13 00:50
schestowitz__in pleroma I get some stuff from "shotposter" and "freepseechextremist"Sep 13 00:51
schestowitz__the "ethnostate" crowdSep 13 00:51
schestowitz__I "get" as in... replies fromSep 13 00:51
Ariadneyeah but at least Pleroma didnt make a deal with that crowdSep 13 00:51
schestowitz__* iircSep 13 00:51
Ariadneworking with TERFs in a project who was early adopted by queer peopleSep 13 00:52
Ariadneis not appropriateSep 13 00:52
schestowitz__free as in spielSep 13 00:52
Ariadnebut they do it anywaySep 13 00:52
Ariadneso I quit :)Sep 13 00:52
*XRevan86 put ld+json there, didn't help, so it's not that.Sep 13 00:52
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Ariadnekinda sad really because I'm the one who put them on a trajectory to being a serious thingSep 13 00:53
XRevan86schestowitz__: is… not about that.Sep 13 00:54
Ariadneno, it's not but katze is a white power dudeSep 13 00:58
*XRevan86 been scrolling a timeline, found 13 00:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | SoapboxSep 13 00:58
Ariadneyeah that's the fancy new UI for Pleroma made by the bigotSep 13 00:58
XRevan86So far I figured out that he's very vocally vegan.Sep 13 00:59
Ariadnehe is "gender critical" which is just another way of saying TERFSep 13 01:00
XRevan86critical of what exactly?Sep 13 01:00
XRevan86 okay, found itSep 13 01:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | gender-critical - WiktionarySep 13 01:01
Ariadnehe wishes for a world where there is no gender (I have no objection to that part), but that group views trans people as a problemSep 13 01:01
schestowitz__not sure what that meansSep 13 01:02
schestowitz__guess it boils down to definitionsSep 13 01:02
schestowitz__in mammals there are two types of reproductive systemsSep 13 01:02
XRevan86Ariadne: oh, I see, that.Sep 13 01:02
schestowitz__some separate that from the concept of gender and gender rolesSep 13 01:02
*XRevan86 presses the eject button.Sep 13 01:02
schestowitz__but the dual reproductive system still existsSep 13 01:02
schestowitz__XRevan86: cya later, pilotSep 13 01:02
schestowitz__maybe in some japanese prisonSep 13 01:03
XRevan86schestowitz__: Why Japanese?Sep 13 01:03
XRevan86that's pretty far away.Sep 13 01:03
schestowitz__They had notoriously bad treatment for captured pilotsSep 13 01:03
XRevan86I don't think I'll make it that far :)Sep 13 01:04
schestowitz__you might want to just die inside your jet/bomberSep 13 01:04
schestowitz__then parachuteSep 13 01:04
schestowitz__*thenSep 13 01:04
schestowitz__**>thanSep 13 01:04
Ariadnewell I support abolition of the concept of gender and gender rolesSep 13 01:04
Ariadnebut I don't support using that ideology as an excuse to harass transgender peopleSep 13 01:05
AriadneGleason does.Sep 13 01:05
Ariadnewe know Gleason does because he acts as sysadmin for groups and persons who advocate for such violenceSep 13 01:05
Ariadneif he did not agree, he would not be providing his services to those peopleSep 13 01:06
Ariadneit does not take a genius to figure that one out :)Sep 13 01:06
XRevan86If this is about public toilets, I'd be happy if they'll all be private for each individual person, not based on a sex groupSep 13 01:07
Ariadneit's about the right to existSep 13 01:07
DaemonFC[m]I really don't care. Sep 13 01:07
Ariadnethe people in that part of the internet write about how they would like to murder usSep 13 01:07
XRevan86Ariadne: Isn't that some kind of felony?Sep 13 01:08
AriadneI don't care either, excepting the parts where they are rallying people to violenceSep 13 01:08
DaemonFC[m]I think it's sort of low to suggest that if you send your kids into the restroom some trans person will just molest them. That's what people always said about gay people.Sep 13 01:08
DaemonFC[m]Oh, they want to molest your kids.Sep 13 01:08
DaemonFC[m]Don't send them in the men's room alone. There could be gays in there.Sep 13 01:08
Ariadnesure but somebody getting a felony for murdering a trans person doesn't bring the trans person back to usSep 13 01:08
XRevan86Ariadne: I mean threats.Sep 13 01:09
Ariadneyeah but how do you hold someone on the internet accountableSep 13 01:09
XRevan86not "when they do kill you, then you can reach us"Sep 13 01:09
DaemonFC[m]Paranoid delusions. Assigning bad things happening that have obvious explanations to God being angry about gay marriage.Sep 13 01:09
DaemonFC[m]Certainly couldn't be pollution and bad leadership (from someone they elected).Sep 13 01:09
Ariadneand then this qanon thingSep 13 01:09
Ariadnethat's a huge threat to trans people tooSep 13 01:10
schestowitz__to factsSep 13 01:10
DaemonFC[m]Well, my dad, very homophobic, used to tell me that Kinsey was full of it and gays were 1% of the population, and mentally ill don'tcha know?Sep 13 01:10
schestowitz__these idiots enter my timeline in twitter in notificationSep 13 01:10
schestowitz__I had to mute some, as they mass message MANY DOZENS of peopleSep 13 01:10
schestowitz__but muting them means I still see mass replies to themSep 13 01:11
DaemonFC[m]Looking at marriage statistics, about 6% of the marriages in the US are same-sex averaged out over the years.Sep 13 01:11
schestowitz__TOTAL loons!Sep 13 01:11
DaemonFC[m]So it's at least 6%.Sep 13 01:11
DaemonFC[m]We only have 6 years where it's been legal everywhere in the country, but it's been legal in states before that, so throwing that in.Sep 13 01:11
DaemonFC[m]The first year Massachusetts legalized it, it was off limits to almost all out of state residents.Sep 13 01:12
Ariadnetrans people are "mentally ill" tooSep 13 01:12
AriadneI don't see myself as mentally ill thanksSep 13 01:12
DaemonFC[m]But the percentage was almost 17%, but then it fell and stabilized to an average of 6.94% since 2004. Sep 13 01:12
DaemonFC[m]So we're probably talking 6-7% of the US population is gay.Sep 13 01:12
DaemonFC[m]But people who want to go with the mental illness accusation have an easier time when there aren't accurate government records that prove them wrong.Sep 13 01:13
DaemonFC[m]Then they can make you as small as they want to claim. Sep 13 01:13
XRevan86Everyone's mentally ill if the bar's set high enough.Sep 13 01:14
DaemonFC[m]To be a mental illness, it has to either be disturbing the person who has it, or cause them huge difficulty in their daily functioning in society, and the only way that's ever happened in regards to sexuality is because society punished it and said you were made wrong.Sep 13 01:15
DaemonFC[m]Always because of religion, even when they said otherwise.Sep 13 01:15
Ariadneanyway my original point is Pleroma making a deal with that group is not appropriateSep 13 01:15
DaemonFC[m]Why would atheists care if you're gay or not? Christians claim that God's pissed off and he needs them to torture you about it. Sep 13 01:15
Ariadnethat's like techrights giving space to patent trolls in the name of "free speech"Sep 13 01:16
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: From a Christian standpoint, G-dЪ might incinerate anyone in a vicinity of a SodomiteSep 13 01:16
DaemonFC[m]It's great isn't it? All powerful, yet needs humans (not even his smarter ones) to do the dirty work and be his muscle. Sep 13 01:16
XRevan86(very scazy)Sep 13 01:16
MinceRi thought christians weren't supposed to judge peopleSep 13 01:16
Ariadneyeah well Michabou the great hare doesn't give a shitSep 13 01:17
MinceRbut maybe they just suck at their own religionSep 13 01:17
XRevan86wanted to write "scary", but my mind was probably elsewhere :)Sep 13 01:17
Ariadneabout anythingSep 13 01:17
MinceRi guess that's what happens when dogma contradicts itself in every pointSep 13 01:17
XRevan86MinceR: It depends on what paragraph you're on.Sep 13 01:17
DaemonFC[m]<MinceR "i thought christians weren't sup"> They say that at the same time they want to be judge, jury, and executioner (if the state allows it.....sometimes extra-judicially if the state doesn't stop them).Sep 13 01:18
DaemonFC[m]Things for gay people got even worse in Iraq after the US replaced Saddam Hussein.Sep 13 01:18
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: I'm actually curious about whether the testaments ever say it's almighty…Sep 13 01:18
DaemonFC[m]We inflicted a new constitution on them but immediately let them pass the death sentence for gay people.Sep 13 01:18
DaemonFC[m]There's W again, with his "compassionate Christian conservatism". Now my mom and dad disavow him and call him all sorts of things, including a friend of the Clintons.Sep 13 01:19
DaemonFC[m]They voted for him, twice.Sep 13 01:19
XRevan86I only read part of the old testament, couldn't do it, even though it was a toned down version, so I can't tell if it did, but that's really not the impression that was giving.Sep 13 01:19
Ariadneanyway I'm glad that most gay people are trans alliesSep 13 01:19
Ariadnethey're really good at dissecting that bullshitSep 13 01:20
DaemonFC[m]John wasn't.Sep 13 01:20
DaemonFC[m]I kept having to tell him to leave it alone.Sep 13 01:20
DaemonFC[m]I think he just has the luxury of being 12 years younger than me on that one. I'm old enough to realize that behaving that way is just doing to someone else what other people used to say about and do to you.Sep 13 01:21
DaemonFC[m]Same exact stuff. They're all child molesters. They're gross. God gave them AIDS for a reason.Sep 13 01:21
DaemonFC[m]I hated hearing that in the 1990s, and it didn't stop. They're just saying it about someone else now.Sep 13 01:22
XRevan86different = bad, a story as old as lifeSep 13 01:23
DaemonFC[m]To hear the way my parents put it, every gay man was a John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy.Sep 13 01:23
DaemonFC[m]They were hiding out in the men's restroom at Walmart and Taco Bell.Sep 13 01:23
DaemonFC[m]Just waiting to grab little boys.Sep 13 01:23
DaemonFC[m]It really rather says a lot that the Christians have the whole world at war (through their ballots, including "domestic unrest" now) and they think nothing of it, and they're accusing anyone else of being perverted and violent. Sep 13 01:25
DaemonFC[m]In my book, you know, liking violence is a perversion and a mental health issue. That's not to say it isn't anticipated, right? I think this defund the police thing is too much. They need to be reformed. There need to be consequences for bad policing. There needs to be consequences for the ones who smash up their body cameras and stuff.Sep 13 01:28
DaemonFC[m]But without them, the rioters are already bad. If you think you've seen the worst of it, just wait until half the country loses their home in the same month the IRS tells everyone who had their payroll taxes deferred they want it back at once. Sep 13 01:29
DaemonFC[m]All Trump has done is scoop and toss this mess out past the election and then the economy is going to collapse like nothing anyone alive today has ever seen.Sep 13 01:30
DaemonFC[m]You think the chart measuring unemployment this year was bad?Sep 13 01:30
DaemonFC[m]History will record this as being like the crash of '29 and remember things got a lot worse. Took months, but they got worse.Sep 13 01:30
DaemonFC[m]Most of that duration was with a government that cared and tried to put people back to work.Sep 13 01:31
DaemonFC[m]So imagine what Trump will do.Sep 13 01:31
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: "decrease the funds of the police" doesn't have quite the ring to itSep 13 01:32
DaemonFC[m]Of course the criminals want less cops around.Sep 13 01:32
DaemonFC[m]Once they're spread even thinner and have to prioritize what to even respond to, they'll have the run of the place. Sep 13 01:32
XRevan86What the police should not look like is an occupational force.Sep 13 01:33
DaemonFC[m]You want to rape someone? Go right ahead. I mean, you're in a neighborhood the police aren't taking calls from anymore. France already has them.Sep 13 01:33
MinceRXRevan86: dunno, but there's this, for example >> 13 01:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Can God stop iron chariots?Sep 13 01:33
DaemonFC[m]They had to negotiate with the criminals to enforce a quiet hour on the other criminas.Sep 13 01:33
XRevan86MinceR: Oh no, not the iron!Sep 13 01:35
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz__ doesn't really seem to understand what living in a region where there's a bunch of people who are only barely smart enough to fuck, do drugs, and shoot at each other is like.Sep 13 01:35
XRevan86a possible inspiration for cryptoniteSep 13 01:35
DaemonFC[m]I'm very jealous. Sep 13 01:35
MinceR:>Sep 13 01:36
XRevan86* kryptoniteSep 13 01:36
DaemonFC[m]In a way it is like a goddamned zombie apocolypse.Sep 13 01:36
DaemonFC[m]A swarm of bodies that can just barely figure out how to turn a doorknob, but they're dangerous because there's a lot of them.Sep 13 01:37
XRevan86In Soviet God the sonic screwdriver only works on woodSep 13 01:37
MinceRXRevan86: better answer >> 13 01:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Can God do anything?Sep 13 01:37
XRevan86> When Sarah laughed at God for saying he'd make Sarah pregnantSep 13 01:38
XRevan86A feminine name? That's cheating.Sep 13 01:38
XRevan86> the God of all fleshSep 13 01:39
XRevan86Hm…Sep 13 01:39
MinceRThe Flesh That HatesSep 13 01:39
XRevan86Glory to Robots!Sep 13 01:40
MinceR 13 01:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | SCP-610 - SCP FoundationSep 13 01:41
XRevan86> The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.Sep 13 01:41
XRevan86Since we're on the topic: can God get pregnant?Sep 13 01:41
XRevan86> It was impossible for God to lie.Sep 13 01:43
XRevan86Oh, so God is susceptible to simple logical traps?Sep 13 01:43
XRevan86Explains why he got so quiet all of the sudden.Sep 13 01:43
MinceR:>Sep 13 01:46
MinceR 13 01:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | God | Hitchhikers | FandomSep 13 01:46
MinceRthe page image for SCP-610 was removed for license reasons, but it's still available here >> 13 01:49
XRevan86MinceR: Is it from a film or something?Sep 13 01:51
MinceR"SCP-610 is based on real-life sculptures filled with torture chambers, cannibalism, morbidity, and horrific creatures named Dream Diorama. Created by the Australian sculptor and painter Mark Powell." -- 13 01:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | SCP-610 | Villains Wiki | FandomSep 13 01:53
XRevan86Probably looks better IRL.Sep 13 01:58
MinceR:)Sep 13 01:58
XRevan86 niceSep 13 02:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Does God have a body?Sep 13 02:00
XRevan86> Which is strange since no one can see God's face and live.Sep 13 02:00
XRevan86I don't see Moses living. Do you?Sep 13 02:00
XRevan86> God ... had horns coming out of his hand.Sep 13 02:02
XRevan86That's… interesting to know. Don't know what snarky comment to make about that. Perfect as it is.Sep 13 02:02
XRevan86Should be mighty inconvinientSep 13 02:04
XRevan86no need for forks thoughSep 13 02:04
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XRevan86 what great morals!Sep 13 02:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | How should a man who has sex with a menstruating woman be punished?Sep 13 02:10
MinceR 13 02:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | SAB Injustice ListSep 13 02:12
XRevan86> Why not? What's wrong with knowing right from wrong?Sep 13 02:13
XRevan86Might figure out why eating of the tree of knowledge is wrong I guess %)Sep 13 02:13
MinceR:>Sep 13 02:14
XRevan86> God punishes Eve, and all women after her, with the pains of childbirth and subjection to men.Sep 13 02:16
XRevan86Except for those who don't feel the pains, those who don't have children, those who don't subject, etc.Sep 13 02:16
XRevan86God is all about asterisks, don't you know.Sep 13 02:16
XRevan86oh, and those who can't have children, of courseSep 13 02:17
MinceRi think "God" is more about mistakesSep 13 02:17
XRevan86The Bible: 2/5, the plot holes are distractingSep 13 02:18
MinceR:>Sep 13 02:18
MinceRit's so incredibly boring i can't give it more than 1 star out of 5Sep 13 02:18
XRevan86Like I said, I couldn't finish it, so I gave it some benefit of the doubt.Sep 13 02:19
XRevan86also the fanbase is annoying and the fanfics are disturbingSep 13 02:21
XRevan86and the extended universe is so confusing the fans keep arguing about what's canon and what's not for millenniaSep 13 02:23
MinceR:>Sep 13 02:26
MinceRif only they only argued about it, but they also wage war about itSep 13 02:26
MinceRworst fandom everSep 13 02:27
XRevan86MinceR: wait till you see the spin-offsSep 13 02:27
XRevan86MinceR: Read a part of that stuff, cannot continue, too gruesome.Sep 13 02:39
XRevan86Still looks like the source material is written by people with schizophrenia.Sep 13 02:39
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stable Kernels: 5.8.9, 5.4.65, 4.19.145, 4.14.198, 4.9.236, and 4.4.236 []Sep 13 05:08
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers #kernel #linux []Sep 13 05:11
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schestowitz__Holy shitSep 13 05:33
schestowitz__Read this messageSep 13 05:33
schestowitz__all the way down to the ebottomSep 13 05:33
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schestowitz__ 13 05:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoCSep 13 05:33
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schestowitz__Another person then cites this:Sep 13 05:34
schestowitz__“She will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society.”Sep 13 05:34
schestowitz__ 13 05:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Judge rules against researcher who lost job over transgender tweets | Transgender | The GuardianSep 13 05:34
schestowitz__So the CoC is now causing debates about this stuffSep 13 05:34
schestowitz__which tbh, has so little to do with a technical projectSep 13 05:34
schestowitz__and merely provokes a lot of peopleSep 13 05:34
schestowitz__seems like recipe for troublemaking tbhSep 13 05:34
schestowitz__ 13 05:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoCSep 13 05:36
schestowitz__"Sep 13 05:36
schestowitz__So when I refuseSep 13 05:36
schestowitz__to refer to a person with XY chromosomes as "she", or to abuse theSep 13 05:36
schestowitz__English language by calling an individual "they", in fact I amSep 13 05:36
schestowitz__defending my world view, and you must not deprive me of that right.Sep 13 05:36
schestowitz__(May I remember that the incident that led to Norbert Preining'sSep 13 05:36
schestowitz__temporary suspension from Debian started with him using "the wrongSep 13 05:36
schestowitz__pronoun" in a blog post!)Sep 13 05:36
schestowitz__"Sep 13 05:36
schestowitz__wow, they actually suspended him?Sep 13 05:36
schestowitz__for referring to a person by the name?Sep 13 05:36
schestowitz__or as singularSep 13 05:37
schestowitz__I am open to ideasSep 13 05:44
schestowitz__I am open to viewsSep 13 05:44
schestowitz__but my point is thisSep 13 05:44
schestowitz__when your project or team gets this stuff interjected into it...Sep 13 05:45 good will come out of itSep 13 05:45
schestowitz__whether that's the actual goal is another questionSep 13 05:45
schestowitz__There's no easy way to even handle this as adminSep 13 05:45
schestowitz__if you suppress/censor the discussion, they call you tyrant/dictatorSep 13 05:46
schestowitz__and if you allow open discourse it won't be civil or saneSep 13 05:46
schestowitz__so you're screwed either waySep 13 05:46
schestowitz__discouraging troublemaking is also hardSep 13 05:47
schestowitz__but it's important to tell apart the combative/militant elementsSep 13 05:47
schestowitz__from those who are quit harmless and don't look for a fightSep 13 05:47
schestowitz__ /end rantSep 13 05:47
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: More Microsoft Googlebombing Designed to Slow Down and Drown Out the News Stories About Its Sabotage of WSL2 (Whose Users Lost Work!) Within Less Than 24 Hours []Sep 13 06:22
schestowitz__ 13 06:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-NVIDIA Reportedly Near Deal To Buy Arm For $40+ Billion Dollars - PhoronixSep 13 06:26
schestowitz__ 13 06:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SoftBank Nears $40 Billion Deal to Sell Arm Holdings to Nvidia - WSJSep 13 06:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Subscribe to read | Financial TimesSep 13 06:27
oiaohmReally Nvidia getting arm that could be a long term disaster.Sep 13 07:17
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kingoffranceXRevan86, i could probably submit some contradictions to them :)  wouldnt know where to begin.Sep 13 07:44
kingoffrancetheres quite a few things the one i glanced at that theres many more contradictionsSep 13 07:45
kingoffranceesp if you allow multiple competing translationsSep 13 07:45
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RobinsonhiSep 13 09:17
Robinsonthis is Robinson from Taiwan.Sep 13 09:17
RobinsonI'm very interesting for your usb display driver topic.Sep 13 09:17
Robinsonis it still alive?Sep 13 09:17
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schestowitz__hiSep 13 09:23
schestowitz__hi, RobinsonSep 13 09:23
schestowitz__sorry, we sometimes answer with some delaySep 13 09:23
schestowitz__but it seems like spam to me:Sep 13 09:23
schestowitz__[09:18] <Robinson> hi Sep 13 09:23
schestowitz__[09:18] <Robinson> this is Robinson from Taiwan.Sep 13 09:23
schestowitz__[09:19] <Robinson> We are very interesting for your usb display topic.Sep 13 09:24
schestowitz__[09:19] <Robinson> is it still a live?Sep 13 09:24
schestowitz__[09:19] <Robinson> or , your can email reply me : robinson@racer-tech.comSep 13 09:24
schestowitz__what's the connection to us?Sep 13 09:24
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Ariadne[22:36] <58afb3schestowitz__> So when I refuseSep 13 09:39
Ariadne[22:36] <58afb3schestowitz__> to refer to a person with XY chromosomes as "she", or to abuse theSep 13 09:39
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Ariadnewhen they refuse to do that, they are an assholeSep 13 09:39
Ariadne"free speech" does not mean "free from consequence"Sep 13 09:40
schestowitz__yes, the latter part irked me, regarding multiple peopleSep 13 09:40
schestowitz__and the way Debian handled the blog post that says "did it again"Sep 13 09:40
schestowitz__"it" referred to the actionSep 13 09:40
schestowitz__not to the personSep 13 09:40
schestowitz__but for a non-English-speaking enforcer it seemed like ir referred to a personSep 13 09:41
Ariadneit is not difficult to respect your peers by using pronouns consistent with their public identitySep 13 09:41
schestowitz__also, the context of it was,Sep 13 09:41
schestowitz__criticism of accusations Ts'o was a rape apologistSep 13 09:41
schestowitz__based on some statistics posted in a mailing list ages agoSep 13 09:41
schestowitz__it seems like a pattern, accusing people of excusing rapeSep 13 09:41
Ariadnesure, I am just saying that people should just respect other people's IdentitySep 13 09:42
schestowitz__right, but some reject the multiple personality typesSep 13 09:42
schestowitz__as they view that as inherently bizarreSep 13 09:42
schestowitz__I understand if incest/rape victims adopt such syndromesSep 13 09:43
schestowitz__but otherwise the whole thing becomes outlandishSep 13 09:43
Ariadneit is a complicated issue, but I think projects can cope with itSep 13 09:43
schestowitz__they canSep 13 09:43
schestowitz__without expulsionsSep 13 09:43
Ariadneultimately it doesn't matterSep 13 09:43
schestowitz__see the latest articleSep 13 09:43
AriadneI agree that expulsions are counter productiveSep 13 09:44
schestowitz__Weapons, Technology and Freedom Sep 13 09:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Weapons, Technology and Freedom | TechrightsSep 13 09:44
schestowitz__The person who wrote it is bi, iircSep 13 09:44
Ariadneif you expel someone they will just go be an ass somewhere elseSep 13 09:44
schestowitz__Pocock got in trouble for talking about corporate conflicts of interestSep 13 09:44
Ariadneyou don't actually solve the problem, you just make it someone elsesSep 13 09:44
Ariadneyeah pocock being bounced was bullshitSep 13 09:45
Ariadnethey tried to go after him in fedora tooSep 13 09:45
Ariadnehe should just come join the alpine cabalSep 13 09:45
schestowitz__"cabal"Sep 13 09:46
schestowitz__RMS was meeting "gnu cabal"Sep 13 09:46
schestowitz__they use it satiricallySep 13 09:46
schestowitz__there used to be "linux cabal"Sep 13 09:46
schestowitz__90s I thinkSep 13 09:46
schestowitz__adopting the term cabal isn't helping, imhoSep 13 09:46
schestowitz__negative connotationSep 13 09:46
Ariadnei am kiddingSep 13 09:46
Ariadnewe do not actually use that term to describe ourselvesSep 13 09:46
Ariadne:)Sep 13 09:46
schestowitz__[04:10] <schestowitz__> 13 09:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Richard Stallman en Guadalajara | Linux Cabal - YouTubeSep 13 09:47
schestowitz__[04:10] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- Richard Stallman en Guadalajara | Linux Cabal - YouTubeSep 13 09:47
Robinsonis it still alive for USB display driver ?Sep 13 09:47
schestowitz__Ariadne: maybe you can invite himSep 13 09:47
Robinsonschestowitz__Sep 13 09:47
schestowitz__Robinson: are you a spammer? :-)Sep 13 09:47
Ariadnebut yesSep 13 09:48
Ariadne 13 09:48
Robinsonno.....Sep 13 09:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoCSep 13 09:48
AriadneTERFs in the debian projectSep 13 09:48
Ariadne:DSep 13 09:48
Ariadnegood find schestowitz__Sep 13 09:48
Robinsoncome from Taiwan, SoC makerSep 13 09:48
Robinsonis it any chance discuss about that ?Sep 13 09:49
schestowitz__no, if it's marketing, then go awaySep 13 09:49
Ariadnei don't care that that person is a TERF, mind.  that just means he is an asshole and willing to publicly show it.Sep 13 09:49
schestowitz__if it's about articles or something like a leak/source of interest, fineSep 13 09:49
Ariadnebeing an ass does not warrant expulsion, of course, but it is an interesting data pointSep 13 09:50
schestowitz__I think it agitates the projectSep 13 09:50
Robinsonok, looks like you just work for method no reality...Sep 13 09:50
schestowitz__as the project should focus on packaging, patechingSep 13 09:51
schestowitz__instead they go around policing people's personal blogsSep 13 09:51
Ariadnefor a project that talks a big game about diversity, it is quite funny to see that debian has TERFsSep 13 09:51
Robinsonhah, Sep 13 09:51
Robinsonperformance Sep 13 09:51
schestowitz__those who do this often contribute no codeSep 13 09:51
schestowitz__and it becomes gossip millSep 13 09:51
schestowitz__and not healthy for technical projectsSep 13 09:51
Robinsonwe can openSep 13 09:51
schestowitz__Ariadne: that's google's mobeySep 13 09:52
Robinsonwe work on githubSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__it's conditionalSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__they give money for diversity projectsSep 13 09:52
Robinsonno conditinal , its a styleSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__so if you say, "no, take your money away" you're racist and existSep 13 09:52
Robinsonwe love to shareSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__sexistSep 13 09:52
Ariadnei rather work on cultivating actual diversity in FOSSSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__we have some leaked emails to that effectSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__it is a brilliant strategy reallySep 13 09:52
Ariadnebeen doing it for almost 15 years nowSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__google is NOT for diversitySep 13 09:52
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schestowitz__they support regimes that kill women and gaysSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__but they want to bribe projectsSep 13 09:52
schestowitz__and this gives them misleading karmaSep 13 09:53
Robinsonok, leave now.Sep 13 09:53
schestowitz__and repels some longtimes contributorsSep 13 09:53
schestowitz__Robinson: please..Sep 13 09:53
Robinson-_- Sep 13 09:53
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Ariadnehaving TERFs in a project also repels longtime contributorsSep 13 09:53
schestowitz__I think it's the first time we had pr/marketing dummies over ircSep 13 09:53
Ariadneor homophobesSep 13 09:54
Ariadneor whateverSep 13 09:54
schestowitz__Ariadne: they don't need to talk about it in the projectSep 13 09:54
schestowitz__it's not them who bring that up usuallySep 13 09:54
schestowitz__like OpalSep 13 09:54
schestowitz__provoking projects like this is unhelpfulSep 13 09:54
Ariadnei agreeSep 13 09:54
schestowitz__like bringing up Israel/PalestineSep 13 09:54
schestowitz__and SOMEONE will be upsetSep 13 09:54
schestowitz__no matter whose side is takenSep 13 09:54
Ariadnebut, at the same timeSep 13 09:54
Ariadnethe technology industry should stop funding the work of homophobes and TERFsSep 13 09:55
schestowitz__At work we ave no-politics policySep 13 09:55
schestowitz__so people don't start arguing with colleagues over politics at workSep 13 09:55
schestowitz__though they can say anything they wish outside work correspondenceSep 13 09:55
Ariadneyes, but would your employer work with, say, the KKK?Sep 13 09:56
Ariadneor hmm, more appropriately, UKIP?Sep 13 09:56
schestowitz__that's separateSep 13 09:56
schestowitz__that's a client ethics issueSep 13 09:56
Ariadneall of technology is an ethics issueSep 13 09:56
schestowitz__that's what the latest article is aboutSep 13 09:57
schestowitz__so we need freedom to open upSep 13 09:57
schestowitz__closing it down is not leading to understanding of the issuesSep 13 09:57
Ariadneif you let bad actors participate in your project, they can use that participation to justify their other activitiesSep 13 09:57
schestowitz__people go elsewhere to spout out their views anywaySep 13 09:57
Ariadneback in the day, we called these actors "poisonous people"Sep 13 09:57
schestowitz__that's sntryismSep 13 09:57
schestowitz__entryismSep 13 09:57
Ariadnedebian has always had "poisonous people"Sep 13 09:57
schestowitz__another issueSep 13 09:57
Ariadneit is why debian is always having these problemsSep 13 09:57
schestowitz__in corporate world they do job interviewsSep 13 09:58
schestowitz__and background checkedSep 13 09:58
schestowitz__freesw doesn't have those filtersSep 13 09:58
Ariadnein alpine, if we see that you're a dick, we send you on your waySep 13 09:58
schestowitz__sometimes  "poisonous people" are people we do not agree withSep 13 09:58
AriadnesureSep 13 09:58
schestowitz__to me, a lot of  "poisonous people" are actually mainstreamSep 13 09:58
schestowitz__and some are routinely on TVSep 13 09:58
schestowitz__or the trump regimeSep 13 09:58
Ariadnealso trueSep 13 09:58
schestowitz__bolton, tillerson, trump...Sep 13 09:59
Ariadnebut i am saying that free software projects can be more selective of participantsSep 13 09:59
Ariadneand likely should be to ensure project healthSep 13 09:59
Ariadne"don't work with assholes" should be an obvious ruleSep 13 09:59
schestowitz__choose productive participantsSep 13 10:00
schestowitz__who have a coding historySep 13 10:00
schestowitz__otherwise you end up with a bunch of non-productive netkkkopsSep 13 10:00
schestowitz__and the project diesSep 13 10:00
Ariadneyes, but i would rather work with productive participants who can write code who are not say, ulrich drepperSep 13 10:00
schestowitz__all the people who do the work do their own thing, e.g. devuanSep 13 10:00
Ariadneulrich can code, but he cannot deal with people eitherSep 13 10:00
Ariadneyou need people who can do bothSep 13 10:00
schestowitz__I don't know him, but I heard the nameSep 13 10:00
Ariadnewhich automatically precludes bigots, because they cannot work with people in all scenariosSep 13 10:01
schestowitz__you might be taking the most extreme examplesSep 13 10:01
Ariadneulrich drepper was the glibc maintainerSep 13 10:01
Ariadnehe is also the reason alpine uses muslSep 13 10:01
Ariadnebefore alpine existed, many alpine developers were debian developers.  we had bad experiences dealing with ulrich.  so we used uclibc, and then later, musl.Sep 13 10:02
Ariadneto avoid having to deal with ulrich any further :)Sep 13 10:02
schestowitz__makes sense, you benefited from having choiceSep 13 10:03
schestowitz__without working to cancel a personSep 13 10:03
Ariadneno point in "cancel" people if you never have a relationship with them to begin with.Sep 13 10:04
Ariadnewhich is my point.Sep 13 10:04
schestowitz__right, so we agreeSep 13 10:04
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schestowitz__social-engineering project can remove all participantsSep 13 10:04
Ariadneyou can get a pretty good read on someone quickly.  and project maintainers should do that and make decisions on who they collaborate with.Sep 13 10:04
schestowitz__it seeds discord in projects that had balanceSep 13 10:05
Ariadnei would say it is the function of good project leadership, really.Sep 13 10:05
schestowitz__The Debian chauvinists isn't a new issueSep 13 10:05
Ariadneand when you do that correctly, you don't really need CoC or whateverSep 13 10:05
schestowitz__ a decade back I remember some French dev who was hostile towards womenSep 13 10:05
Ariadneno, it's not.  but when we started alpine, we made sure we wouldn't have that in alpine.Sep 13 10:05
schestowitz__or perceived as suchSep 13 10:05
Ariadneand alpine is healthier as a result.Sep 13 10:05
schestowitz__maybe he left on his own at the endSep 13 10:05
schestowitz__CoC is good, but..Sep 13 10:06
schestowitz__in theorySep 13 10:06
schestowitz__in practice I see who enforcs itSep 13 10:06
Ariadnea CoC is just a mission statement.Sep 13 10:06
schestowitz__and that worries meSep 13 10:06
schestowitz__like the same companies that BAN WORDSSep 13 10:06
Ariadnewhere it goes from there can be good or bad.Sep 13 10:06
schestowitz__ 13 10:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Linux Foundation’s Linux Kernel Code of Conduct (CoC) Committee is Now Officially Corporate | TechrightsSep 13 10:06
schestowitz__This is how CoC is done wrongSep 13 10:06
schestowitz__it's about corporations expelling people to suit their agendaSep 13 10:06
schestowitz__selective enforcementSep 13 10:07
schestowitz__past hoc justificationsSep 13 10:07
Ariadneultimately, as i said, it comes down to leadership to establish good culture in a projectSep 13 10:07
Ariadnedebian never did that.Sep 13 10:07
schestowitz__Corruption and bribery? OKSep 13 10:07
Ariadneinstead they established bureaucracy.Sep 13 10:07
schestowitz__CoC does not say much about whistleblower anywaysSep 13 10:07
schestowitz__then they accuse the messenger of using the "wrong" toneSep 13 10:08
schestowitz__or "offending" those complicitSep 13 10:08
schestowitz__Ariadne: even in the 90sSep 13 10:08
Ariadneyes, even in the 90s.Sep 13 10:08
schestowitz__1996 has many examples (Debian-Private)Sep 13 10:08
Ariadnedebian has basically been broken since day 1.Sep 13 10:08
schestowitz__Perens isn't good with peopleSep 13 10:08
schestowitz__he refers to himself as a third person and has ego issues, based on my reasongsSep 13 10:09
schestowitz__*readingsSep 13 10:09
Ariadneanyway, ulrich is a massive assSep 13 10:09
Ariadnehe wound up getting fired from redhatSep 13 10:09
Ariadnebecause he threatened to relicense all glibc code under his own copyrightSep 13 10:09
Ariadnebecause the FSF pissed him offSep 13 10:09
Ariadnei guess he is at goldman sachs now writing high frequency trading codeSep 13 10:09
schestowitz__they're good at thatSep 13 10:09
schestowitz__(FSF)Sep 13 10:09
Ariadnepeople would ask for reasonable things in glibc, like strlcpy/strlcatSep 13 10:10
Ariadneand he would reply with stuff likeSep 13 10:10
Ariadneif we were making the decision *today* and thus, ulrich was not in the picture, we probably would have chosen glibc for alpine.Sep 13 10:11
Ariadnebut that was then, and this is now.Sep 13 10:11
schestowitz__then = 90s?Sep 13 10:11
Ariadneeither way, ulrich's behavior towards debian contributors, is why alpine is not a gnu/linux distribution but instead independentSep 13 10:12
Ariadneno.  this was going on all the way up to 2015Sep 13 10:12
schestowitz__but apline does have linux and some gnuSep 13 10:12
schestowitz__seems like a mix of thingsSep 13 10:12
Ariadneyes, some gnu.  but we don't have glibc.Sep 13 10:12
schestowitz__good to have choicesSep 13 10:12
Ariadneand, at least in my opinion, gnu/linux implies glibc.Sep 13 10:12
Ariadnebecause "gnu/linux" is an ABISep 13 10:13
Ariadnedescribed by the LSBSep 13 10:13
Ariadneno glibc, no LSB complianceSep 13 10:13
schestowitz__but there's more to linux+gnu than gcc and compiling the c codeSep 13 10:13
Ariadnethus can't really be called gnu/linuxSep 13 10:13
Ariadneright, exactly.Sep 13 10:13
schestowitz__almost all "linux commands" are just gnuSep 13 10:13
schestowitz__many written originally by rmsSep 13 10:13
Ariadneand if you want gnu coreutils, you can install it :)Sep 13 10:13
Ariadneyou can even install coreutils on freebsdSep 13 10:13
Ariadnebut that doesn't make freebsd gnu :)Sep 13 10:14
Ariadnethough, gnu coreutils has problemsSep 13 10:14
AriadneFSF's push to make everything GPLv3 has resulted in forks of coreutilsSep 13 10:14
Ariadnefor example, collabora has a fork of coreutils that they use with their customers with features from newer versions reimplementedSep 13 10:15
schestowitz__I didn't know thatSep 13 10:15
schestowitz__either way, more can be goodSep 13 10:15
schestowitz__contrary to what monopolists saySep 13 10:16
schestowitz__monocultural monopolistsSep 13 10:16
schestowitz__going to take a nap nowSep 13 10:16
Ariadnei think a lot of GNU software is well polished, but in bad shape code-wiseSep 13 10:18
Ariadnesame with BSD codebasesSep 13 10:18
Ariadneit would be nice to start rewriting these components using modern practicesSep 13 10:18
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oiaohmAriadne: problem is number of hours to rewrite those code bases.,Sep 13 10:45
oiaohmSome ways slowly hardening C compiler might be the right way forwards.Sep 13 10:46
Ariadnedoing both is worthwhileSep 13 10:58
oiaohmsel4 shows that a C code base can be made secure.Sep 13 10:59
oiaohmCode does not have to be that modern in coding design to be seure.Sep 13 11:00
oiaohmsecureSep 13 11:00
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oiaohmAriadne: forking of coreutils was happening when coreutils was GPLv2 as well.Sep 13 11:05
oiaohmThe fun of commercial interests at play.Sep 13 11:05
Ariadnesure.  but now even FOSS companies are doing itSep 13 11:06
oiaohmThat not different.Sep 13 11:06
oiaohmFOSS companies were forking coreutils back in GPLv2 as well.Sep 13 11:06
oiaohmIn both directions over time.Sep 13 11:06
oiaohmYou have 1 group who wants mandated sharing by license and another group who does not want mandated sharing by license.Sep 13 11:07
oiaohmThat is a constant flux.Sep 13 11:07
oiaohmReally there no point in most countries forking coreutils gplv2 instead of using gplv3 as in most countries Gplv2 and Gplv3 by court rulings is 100 percent the same thing.Sep 13 11:09
oiaohmMost countries have ruled Gplv2 has a implied patent grant.   So that is the same as Gplv3 stated patent grant.Sep 13 11:09
oiaohmAriadne: yes commercial interested are not past stupid panic and forking over nothing. Sep 13 11:11
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MinceR13 063439 < schestowitz__> which tbh, has so little to do with a technical projectSep 13 11:43
MinceRwell, debian ceased to be a technical project when they official adopted the dogma that claims that what used to be GNU/Linux should be "standardized" by hedratSep 13 11:44
MinceRand that there should be no "fragmentation"Sep 13 11:44
MinceRit would have been the logical thing to do to just make a fedora spin with their branding on it, and then they can spend all the remaining time debating about shit like thisSep 13 11:45
MinceRor just declare even having different logos/names/wallpapers "fragmentation" and direct their users to fedora or rHELLSep 13 11:45
MinceRs/cial/cially/Sep 13 11:46
MinceR 13 11:55
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oiaohmMinceR: really what point in history was it a technical project.   Early debian was funded to put GNU on Linux not do large technical development.Sep 13 13:20
MinceRputting GNU on Linux is technicalSep 13 13:20
oiaohmNot reallySep 13 13:20
MinceRcapitulating to rh/ibm and spreading rh/ibm's gospel is notSep 13 13:20
MinceRonce their lord and savior proclaims that "fragmentation" in package managers is heresy, you can bet they're going to throw out apt and dpkg as wellSep 13 13:21
MinceRand then what remains?Sep 13 13:21
oiaohmchoice of sysvinit for early debian over rc from bsd was capitulation to FSF wishes on early debian.Sep 13 13:23
oiaohmHistory of debian has very frew choices and a lot of following the largest development party at the time.Sep 13 13:23
MinceRthe FSF didn't have their own competitor to debianSep 13 13:25
MinceRibm doesSep 13 13:25
oiaohmLOLSep 13 13:25
oiaohmHurd was meant to be the competitor to debain.Sep 13 13:25
MinceRthen again, there isn't much left of the FSF anywaySep 13 13:25
MinceRHURD is not a GNU/Linux distributionSep 13 13:25
oiaohmIt was meant to be a GNU distribution.Sep 13 13:25
MinceRand it's not going anywhereSep 13 13:25
MinceRespecially since it was infiltrated by systemd believersSep 13 13:26
oiaohmHURD early development was screwed up.  Yes FSF early support of debian was on the idea of debian being a stop gap until Hurd was ready.Sep 13 13:26
oiaohmThe early case was really FSF miss management.Sep 13 13:27
oiaohmBut still does not mean Debian was have its own free ideas in that time.Sep 13 13:27
oiaohmProblem of capitulating is a very long term Debian thing.Sep 13 13:28
oiaohmMinceR:   Really its simple to forget Debian was not intended to end at having a Linux kernel as core.Sep 13 13:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Debian -- Debian GNU/HurdSep 13 13:29
oiaohmScale of early debian failure to complete FSF objectives is impressive.Sep 13 13:30
oiaohmOf course that is linked to Hurd failure to come a system effective kernel.Sep 13 13:31
oiaohmMinceR: I guess it never crossed your mind that debian was not meant to be a Linux Distribution at all and basically fell into that because the Linux kernel worked.Sep 13 13:34
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cubexyzdo a distro roll call.. I'll startSep 13 17:03
cubexyzslackware, vector linux & openbsdSep 13 17:03
cubexyzoiaohm, still using kde 3.5.10 on a couple of boxesSep 13 17:04
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MinceR 13 19:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4305362)Sep 13 19:10
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DaemonFC[m]The Hurd idea was kind of a Unix people ignoring the PC thing.Sep 13 20:10
DaemonFC[m]By the late 1980s, it was obvious that the PC would come out on top in the computing market and the Hurd suffers from all of the problems of minix and more.Sep 13 20:11
DaemonFC[m]It wasn't designed to perform well and they didn't really design it around the dominant 386 architecture anyway.Sep 13 20:12
MinceRit was designed to be robust, afaikSep 13 20:13
MinceRwhich is a good idea once your computer is powerful enough (and PCs are)Sep 13 20:13
DaemonFC[m]Torvalds said that Linux was designed to use almost all of the 386's features because that's what he had. One of the problems with minix at the time, other than the license, was that Tanenbaum held it back to 286 systems, which were horribly obsolete, and argued that this was a feature. Sep 13 20:13
DaemonFC[m]Hurd still crashes a lot.Sep 13 20:14
DaemonFC[m]Even corrupts the Ext2fs file system, which is what it supports on the file system server. Sep 13 20:14
MinceRafaik HURD needed a new microkernel, which is not happeningSep 13 20:14
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DaemonFC[m]No, because nobody in their right mind is making those.Sep 13 20:14
MinceRwhy?Sep 13 20:15
DaemonFC[m]Although some things that should probably be in the kernel somewhere are pushed out into userspace on Linux distributions. Sep 13 20:15
DaemonFC[m]I'm not a fan of having sound mixing in userspace. Sep 13 20:15
DaemonFC[m]It should also be much simpler than Pulseaudio.Sep 13 20:16
DaemonFC[m]Things where there's a lot of chatter back and forth requiring context switches that can't really be one thing or the other should probably go into the kernel somewhere when they work well.Sep 13 20:17
DaemonFC[m]The objection to dbus in the kernel was that the userspace daemon was a wreck.Sep 13 20:18
DaemonFC[m]Once they get rid of Torvalds, things like that will just go through.Sep 13 20:18
DaemonFC[m]Nobody really looked into correctness, performance bottlenecks, and security issues in dbus until Torvalds told them no.Sep 13 20:19
DaemonFC[m]They thought they'd just dump it into the kernel and then someone else would have to maintain it because it was there now and a guarantee of the Linux kernel.Sep 13 20:19
MinceRpoetteringaudio is probably far from the best audio mixing that can be done in userspaceSep 13 20:23
MinceRand afaik when people blame context switching for performance issues, they're usually wrongSep 13 20:24
MinceR 13 20:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | TikTokSep 13 20:31
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DaemonFC[m]<MinceR "and afaik when people blame cont"> Well, they cheated by mapping the kernel address space but then that had to be undone on most Intel processors. Sep 13 21:17
DaemonFC[m]Well, there's apparently protesters outside a hospital in LA.Sep 13 21:18
DaemonFC[m]Two Sheriffs deputies were injured severely in a surprise attack and may die.Sep 13 21:19
DaemonFC[m]Apparently, the protesters are chanting "We hope you die!" over and over.Sep 13 21:19
DaemonFC[m]"The online survey, which was commissioned by the left-leaning group Vote Common Good and conducted by a team of academic pollsters from the University of Southern California, Duke University, University of Maryland College Park and University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, predicts an 11 percentage point swing toward Biden among evangelicals and Catholics who backed Trump in 2016, based on input from bothSep 13 21:21
DaemonFC[m]demographics across five major 2020 battleground states: Florida, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Other polls have captured similar gains in Biden’s religious support, including an August survey by Fox News that showed the former vice president at 28 percent support among white evangelicals — up 12 percentage points from 2016 exit polls for the Democratic nominee."Sep 13 21:21
DaemonFC[m]Apparently, enough Christian voters have had enough with this. The whole tear gassing protesters to stand there like an idiot for a few minutes with a bible he's never read was enough to do serious damage to Trump with white evangelicals.Sep 13 21:22
DaemonFC[m]28% of them now support Biden, and that was 16% for Hillary Clinton according to exit polls in 2016.Sep 13 21:22
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oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: the orgianl hurd problem was that it would resist completely crashing.    Microkernel design for you a core service crash lets auto restart that over and over again.   So making debugging hell.Sep 13 21:35
oiaohmMinceR: Pulseaudio is in fact less buggy than artsd, esound and most other sound servers.   Of course its not idea pipewire that target is to merge pulseaudio and jackaudio will finally get to the best possible audio server in userspace.Sep 13 21:38
oiaohmidea/idealSep 13 21:38
DaemonFC[m]My laptop does not handle 10 bit HEVC at 2160p very well.Sep 13 21:39
DaemonFC[m]It seems that sooner or later, the picture freezes up and I have to nudge the progress bar to the next superframe.Sep 13 21:39
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MinceRoiaohm: lolSep 13 22:27
MinceR"just toss in even more code"Sep 13 22:27
oiaohmMinceR: funny as it sounds pipewire on Audio side is less code.Sep 13 22:28
MinceRiirc aRts didn't break ALSA for other programs like poetteringaudio doesSep 13 22:28
oiaohmartsd did break alsa using application back in the day.Sep 13 22:29
oiaohmMinceR: breaking alsa for other programs is not a unique to pulseaudio thing.Sep 13 22:29
oiaohmOf course it was simple for artsd/esound and other sound servers back in the day break ALSA because there was no ALSA test suite back then to make sure you modifications on ALSA side somewhat worked.Sep 13 22:31
oiaohmOne thing Pulseaudio developers did finally make that was important was a ALSA testsuite.Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: I left comments on the Lake County Prosecutor's Youtube channel.Sep 13 22:35
DaemonFC[m]Talking about the hate crime case that he dropped where a white Trump supporter chased a Hispanic man down with a icepick and told him "Go back where you came from." and also the case where he turned around Illinois' Criminal Conspiracy Murder law to go after 4 kids who tried to steal a car for felony murder because the homeowner shot one of them.Sep 13 22:36
DaemonFC[m]I called him the Lake County Hate Crimes Enabler.Sep 13 22:36
oiaohmMinceR: you need to take rose colored glasses off with sound servers.   The reality is we have not had one sound server on Linux that is not some level of broken.   Please note it took over 3 years of pulseaudio development before they got serous about hey we need a ALSA testsuite to prevent mess.Sep 13 22:36
oiaohmEven the OSS stuff before ALSA lacked a proper formal test suite to make sure drivers worked right and that the multi application audio was working right.   This in fact comes forwards to current day OSS as well.Sep 13 22:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best Free and Open Source Web Servers []Sep 13 22:39
oiaohmAt some point in future Linux Audio need lot more proper engineering work.Sep 13 22:39
oiaohmbecause the past does not have it.Sep 13 22:39
MinceRoiaohm: i don't have them onSep 13 22:42
MinceRbut i'm not deafSep 13 22:42
MinceRwhen poetteringaudio is incapable to of playing audio without skips, i noticeSep 13 22:42
MinceRi'm also not blindSep 13 22:42
MinceRso when poetteringaudio has an atrocious UX, i noticeSep 13 22:42
MinceRfor example, if a client outputs audio only in short bursts, it is very difficult to change what device does it output toSep 13 22:43
MinceRbecause it will only appear momentarily in pavucontrolSep 13 22:43
MinceRalso, Linux audio needing more engineering work implies Linux surviving, which seems unlikely to meSep 13 22:43
oiaohmMinceR: artsd, esound and NAS also suffer from skips back in the day.   Jackaudio without realtime features also does skips.Sep 13 22:44
oiaohmGeneral audio server without proper kernel intergration to get CPU time when it needs it will skip.Sep 13 22:45
MinceRnobody forced you to use arts or esound back in the daySep 13 22:45
oiaohmHeck even dmix will skip.Sep 13 22:45
MinceRi don't think dmix ever skipped for meSep 13 22:45
oiaohmthat would be luck.\Sep 13 22:45
MinceRalso, you could just run applications on plain ALSA while using arts or esoundSep 13 22:46
oiaohmAll of them do it.Sep 13 22:46
oiaohmMinceR:   You can run pulseaudio in the old arts/esound way.Sep 13 22:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | PulseAudio - ArchWikiSep 13 22:47
DaemonFC[m] 13 22:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Raimondo signs executive order removing ‘Providence Plantations’ from official documents | WPRI.comSep 13 22:48
oiaohmNot that it recommend as you do open up risk of the same pandora issues with changing alsa options as you use to with artsd and esound.Sep 13 22:48
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 5 Linux VPN Providers To Secure your Connections With []Sep 13 22:48
DaemonFC[m]Trevor Noah who tries to claim he knows a lot about history said he had no idea that the name of Rhode Island is officially State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. Sep 13 22:48
oiaohmWhen I say pandora issues I mean lock the sound card up so it jams on a tone or something else equally horrible and possible headphone/speaker destorying.Sep 13 22:48
DaemonFC[m]Then he said the word plantation is racist, when it's really just an archaic term for a colony.Sep 13 22:49
DaemonFC[m]Trevor Noah is very dishonest.Sep 13 22:49
DaemonFC[m]He's turned the Daily Show into a daily two minutes hate against white people.Sep 13 22:49
oiaohmMinceR: the audio stack is horrible broken yes broken to the point at times you break hardware.Sep 13 22:49
DaemonFC[m]He's part of cancel culture. I really hope they just cancel him. The Daily Show really ceased to exist when Jon Stewart left. He was funny, at least. All Trevor Noah does is complain.Sep 13 22:50
DaemonFC[m]Jon Stewart was great at trolling Republicans.Sep 13 22:58
DaemonFC[m]He just let them do what they do and wrote jokes around it. It was great. In 2004, when the Republicans were trying to make a constitutional gay marriage ban (which they knew couldn't pass, but their voters aren't that smart), the author of the proposed amendment got caught asking 15 and 16 year old boys for sex over email. He was the main reason they had to end the Congressional Page program. His name was Mark FoleySep 13 23:00
DaemonFC[m](R-Florida), and so Stewart had a whole segment called Foley Erect for like a week.Sep 13 23:00
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux File Systems: Everything You Need to Know []Sep 13 23:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Xfce 4.16pre1 Released As The First Step Towards This Next Desktop Update []Sep 13 23:09
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Bounty Battle, Battle for Wesnoth, PyGame and More []Sep 13 23:12
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mark Shuttleworth Now Plans To Restore Ubuntu’s Community Council []Sep 13 23:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME 3.37.92 Released []Sep 13 23:18
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts: Deepin 20 Run Through, Snaps, Test and Code (Python) and GNU World Order []Sep 13 23:22
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #KDE : Linux App Summit, #Oxygen Reboot, and Develop.kde .org []Sep 13 23:29
MinceRlol @ Foley ErectSep 13 23:30
kingoffranceyes, trevor noah seems to serious IMO; stewart was silly and immature maybe, but he seemingly never took himself too seriouslySep 13 23:45
kingoffranceserious is fine maybe, but not for that type of showSep 13 23:45
kingoffrancestewart was straight man faux seriousness many timesSep 13 23:46
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