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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Thursday, July 16, 2020

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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: CNCF (Linux Foundation) and 10 Years of OpenStack []Jul 16 00:02
MinceR 16 00:04
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dabblerdudeMinceR: Isn't the purpose of modern web browsers being constantly maintained and up to date to hinder new security holes and bugs from happening?Jul 16 00:08
MinceRi don't think they're that proactiveJul 16 00:09
MinceRif they were, they wouldn't do stuff like automatically download and run codeJul 16 00:09
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME and KDE: Official Merch Shop, FOSS-North Video Editing and KStars []Jul 16 00:14
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Some time by week’s end #tuxmachines will have published its 140,000th node (page/post). Big number, nice milestone. Turning 17 next spring. []Jul 16 00:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Rust, Python, Ruby and More []Jul 16 00:27
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s leftovers []Jul 16 00:29
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 16/7/2020: FreeBSD Quarterly Status Report, LibreOffice Has Plans, FSF Warns Against ‘Online’ Voting []Jul 16 00:36
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Digitproactive paying for prevention of bugs less incentive than the duress of existing bugs pressing for fixing, mhmm, your cynicism DaemonFC[m] makes sense, like a for-profit-healthcare flaw of "a patient cured is a customer lost".  I had been wondering earlier about subscription models for free software, which in general only slightly dent this hard social problem.Jul 16 00:59
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DaemonFC[m]It seems a lot like Microsoft where they patch it all the time and it still never works right.Jul 16 01:02
DaemonFC[m]Decades and decades, and look at it.Jul 16 01:02
Digitits enough to send one screaming clamouring for something more suckless or plan9ish or bsdish or templeosishJul 16 01:03
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DaemonFC[m]Linux has really been turning into a corporate shithole in full force since Microsoft got involved.Jul 16 01:37
DaemonFC[m]I've never seen things this screwed up.Jul 16 01:37
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz wasn't far off when he mentioned "if" we lose GNOME. I'd say it's more like when it happened.Jul 16 01:37
MinceRdepends on what you consider "GNOME" to beJul 16 01:38
MinceRbecause it's been an absolute shitshow since 2.0Jul 16 01:38
MinceR"our users are too stupid to understand the print dialog!"Jul 16 01:39
MinceR"everything crApple does is wonderful and we must copy everything they do!"Jul 16 01:58
Digittime to make a new toolkit.Jul 16 02:00
DaemonFC[m]Print dialog?Jul 16 02:10
MinceR 16 02:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | [Usability] Re: [Desktop_architects] Printing dialog and GNOMEJul 16 02:15
MinceRpity KDE is now like gnomeJul 16 02:15
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DaemonFC[m]Very few people ever used GNOME's window manager when there was a choice.Jul 16 03:09
DaemonFC[m]Few distributions even made theirs the default.Jul 16 03:09
DaemonFC[m]It was pretty much Compiz for most of the GNOME 2 series.Jul 16 03:09
DaemonFC[m]GNOME 2 wasn't that bad, but 3 decided to impose this tablet garbage on PC users and just isn't ver well designed, so it brings even fast computers down when it shouldn't.Jul 16 03:10
DaemonFC[m]It also has a lot of bugs lately. Jul 16 03:10
DaemonFC[m]On any particular point, meh.Jul 16 03:15
DaemonFC[m]GNOME 2 was stable, worked well...Jul 16 03:16
smnthermes> DaemonFC[m] wrote:Jul 16 03:25
smnthermes> They maanaged to get that running on the Firefox ESR 68 platform finally I think.Jul 16 03:25
smnthermesSeaMonkey is using FF 60 with backportsJul 16 03:25
DaemonFC[m]Hmm...Jul 16 03:25
smnthermes> DaemonFC[m] wrote:Jul 16 03:27
smnthermes> It might work, but I can't seriously believe that one guy is going to keep up with the security churn of Firefox.Jul 16 03:27
smnthermesIt's not just one guyJul 16 03:27
DaemonFC[m]Seems to be falling more behind each time there's a rebase.Jul 16 03:27
smnthermesWhat?Jul 16 03:29
smnthermesPM won't have new rebases anymoreJul 16 03:30
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DaemonFC[m]No, Seamonkey.Jul 16 04:25
DaemonFC[m]The changes happening to Gecko are aren't easy to adapt it to.Jul 16 04:25
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DaemonFC[m]They renamed Riot to Element.Jul 16 06:27
insmodppaFrom one generic name to another.Jul 16 06:31
XRevan86Russia is so clumsy, people fall out of windows so flipping often.Jul 16 07:18
XRevan86 16 07:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Google TranslateJul 16 07:23
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Digitwe really need a KISS FOSS web solution, maintainable by 1 guy.Jul 16 07:44
Digitor... should we all fall down some old new gopher hole, and say "sorry tim, web's over"?  n_nJul 16 07:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OpenStack, the open-source cloud at 10 []Jul 16 08:01
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: CopyQ Clipboard Manager 3.12 Released []Jul 16 08:04
schestowitzthose sort of existJul 16 08:13
schestowitzwhether those are used by many is another issueJul 16 08:14
schestowitzDigit: see aral balkan with indie web server for instanceJul 16 08:14
schestowitzas for minimalist distros, those exist tooJul 16 08:14
schestowitzand are quite usableJul 16 08:14
schestowitzif you don't need some fancier software with advance ui toolkitsJul 16 08:14
schestowitztbh, a lot of sites can be accessed using rss aloneJul 16 08:15
schestowitzwe also have perl stuff to parse things for usJul 16 08:15
schestowitzso eventually you read news inside your text editor, utf8, no javascript, so fancy htmlJul 16 08:15
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: 1000+ deaths yesterdayJul 16 08:28
schestowitzfirst since june 9thJul 16 08:28
Digitlinks is in my arsenal of web browsers at least, but it too feels a tad cumbersome.  maybe i should start just websurfing (remember when we surfed, rather than browsed?) with curl and rss.  |  thnx, i'll look into that aral balkan indie web server n have another poke around at carving out a convenient minimal web experience for myself.Jul 16 08:28
schestowitztrump is triggering those snowflakes by MAGA death cultJul 16 08:29
schestowitz'pro-life'Jul 16 08:29
Digitcurl's likely overkill too.Jul 16 08:29
schestowitzhe runs his site from pinephone nowJul 16 08:29
schestowitzwith gnu/linuxJul 16 08:29
schestowitzhe dumped apple some years backJul 16 08:29
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liberty_box 16 10:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft Outlook is crashing worldwide with 0xc0000005 errors, how to fixJul 16 10:02
zoobabBreton gives green light to UPC:Jul 16 10:22
zoobab 16 10:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Unified patent court and Germany, European Commission answers EuroMP's questionsJul 16 10:22
zoobab"The United Kingdom has ceased to be an EU Member State and, therefore, will not participate in the unitary patent system after the end of the transition period"Jul 16 10:23
zoobabno reference to the Withdrawal Agreement of courseJul 16 10:23
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schestowitzzoobab: typical bretonJul 16 10:48
schestowitzwe can almost ignore himJul 16 10:48
schestowitzas he's predictableJul 16 10:48
schestowitzzoobab: the article does not mention BretonJul 16 10:50
schestowitznot even onceJul 16 10:50
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schestowitzcan you give a less misleading summary?Jul 16 10:50
zoobabthe Withdrawal Agreement only specifies the UK has to respect EU lawJul 16 10:53
zoobaband EU law includesJul 16 10:54
zoobabinternational agreement signed by the EU, or a group of member statesJul 16 10:54
schestowitzwhere is breton in all this?Jul 16 10:54
zoobabbut international agreements not in force cannot be reasonably considered EU lawJul 16 10:54
zoobabas the law is not activeJul 16 10:55
zoobabin the DOCX answerJul 16 10:55
zoobab 16 10:55
schestowitzok, let me checkJul 16 10:55
zoobabPDF is betetr:Jul 16 10:55
zoobab 16 10:55
scientesEurope is irreleventJul 16 10:56
scientesChina and Russia is where everything happens nowJul 16 10:57
scientesas that document makes clearJul 16 10:57
scientesEurope is too busy in internal politicsJul 16 10:57
scientesand the EU doesn't even seem to exist, given that every country closed off its bordersJul 16 10:57
schestowitzzoobab: thanks, I will write about itJul 16 10:57
scientesI've seen what, say India is able to do regarding patentsJul 16 10:58
scientesand it actually makes senseJul 16 10:58
scienteswhile the US and Europe is just a bunch of squabblersJul 16 10:58
scientesand their word is about as useful as garbageJul 16 10:58
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zoobabWe cannot have sane decisions about the economy as long as it is not an exact scienceJul 16 11:04
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scientesit certainly is easier when it is based on envyJul 16 11:15
scientesI go to the LLVM compiler conference and it is all "I can't talk about what I am doing"Jul 16 11:15
scientesand all these NDAs which treat people like babiesJul 16 11:15
scientesChina is not like thatJul 16 11:15
scientesand all these projects which start with the premise of "lets use obsolete stuff"Jul 16 11:16
scientesChina also does not have this stupidityJul 16 11:16
scientesin #zig they are talking about AVRJul 16 11:16
scientesbut no-body gives a shit about AVR because it is obsolete shitJul 16 11:16
scientesthe biggest problem is the wave upon wave of controlJul 16 11:19
scientesand then more controlJul 16 11:19
scientesand then more controlJul 16 11:19
scientesyou end up with a population that expects to be fedJul 16 11:20
scientesthat waits aroundJul 16 11:21
schestowitzzoobab: 16 11:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Commissioner Thierry Breton, Acting Like a Patent Maximalists’ ‘Mole’ (as Expected All Along), is Now Formally Lying for Team UPC | TechrightsJul 16 11:33
zoobabthere is some parallelism with the European Arrest Warrant:Jul 16 12:03
zoobab 16 12:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | UK to withdraw from European arrest warrant | UK news | The GuardianJul 16 12:03
zoobab"One complication is that some EU member states, such as Germany, have a constitutional bar against extraditing their nationals to non-EU countries."Jul 16 12:04
zoobabWhen Britain left the EU on 31 January, three EU countries – Germany, Austria and Slovenia – announced they would stop surrendering their nationals to British law enforcement. Jul 16 12:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights []Jul 16 12:07
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MinceR 16 12:18
scientesexcept Hong KongJul 16 12:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wine and Games: Proton and SpaceChem []Jul 16 12:24
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Tauon – An amazing music player for Linux []Jul 16 12:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s howtos []Jul 16 12:44
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Patch your #vista10 now to fix 17-year-old #DNS flaw []Jul 16 12:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Linux Graphics: #Intel Gen12, #NavyFlounder , #Sway and #DRMNext []Jul 16 13:00
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: One Day Later: Death Stranding is now Playable on Linux []Jul 16 13:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Benchmarking NetBSD, first evaluation report []Jul 16 13:06
MinceR(cat) 16 13:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4345841)Jul 16 13:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: EasyOS 2.3.3 released []Jul 16 13:13
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: NetworkManager 1.26 Brings Autoconnect for Wi-Fi Profiles, firewalld zone Support []Jul 16 13:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Pinephone “Community Edition: PostmarketOS” Launched with 3GB RAM, 32GB Flash, USB-C Hub []Jul 16 13:18
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Arch Linux-Based EndeavourOS Celebrates First Anniversary with New ISO Release, ARM Port []Jul 16 13:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Why It’s Time To Pay Attention To This Linux Laptop Company []Jul 16 13:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Jul 16 13:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Record, Edit and Mix Audio Using Latest #Ardour 6.2 Release []Jul 16 13:32
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OpenCV Project Announces Raspberry Pi-like Hardware Kits to Make Embedded AI Projects []Jul 16 13:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Power - Part II of Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Review []Jul 16 13:40
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Jul 16 13:42
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla Thunderbird 78 Officially Released with Major Changes, Here’s What’s New []Jul 16 13:44
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OpenStack on Its Tenth Anniversary []Jul 16 13:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Will 2020 Be The Year Of Rust In The Linux Kernel? []Jul 16 13:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The ultimate back to school guide to open source for teachers []Jul 16 13:54
MinceR(audio:important) 16 13:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Ricky Gervais at the Golden Globes 2020 - All of his bits chained - YouTubeJul 16 13:54
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 10 Best Free Tiling Window Managers []Jul 16 14:05
oiaohmWill 2020 Be The Year Of Rust In The Linux Kernel?  << A title like that fairly much dooms it for 2020.Jul 16 14:05
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MinceRyeahJul 16 14:06
MinceRi can't wait for my kernel to require a proprietary compiler to buildJul 16 14:07
oiaohmThere have been 8 historic proprietary compilers used to build the Linux kernel for different platforms.Jul 16 14:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla: VR, VPN, Tor and More []Jul 16 14:08
MinceRthey're not required on the platforms i useJul 16 14:09
oiaohmIntel complier was at one point required for particular x86 processes.Jul 16 14:11
XRevan86> requiredJul 16 14:11
XRevan86ouch %)Jul 16 14:11
oiaohmBasically its been 20+ years since then.Jul 16 14:11
oiaohmMinceR:  On x86 you have icc, clang being worked on as the c complier for the Linux kernel as well as gcc.Jul 16 14:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source treeJul 16 14:16
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XRevan86oiaohm: It's not exactly the same thing when Rust is required to compile certain bits of the kernel.Jul 16 14:16
oiaohmXRevan86: some of the historic usages of icc with the Linux kernel have been the same thing.Jul 16 14:17
oiaohmso this is really at least the second time around for this.Jul 16 14:17
oiaohmAnd we hope it goes the way of the dodo again.Jul 16 14:18
oiaohmIt would be really wacky if the Linux kernel ends up mandating  yes gcc rust instead of the llvm rust.Jul 16 14:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - philberty/gccrs: Rust Front-end to GCCJul 16 14:20
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smnthermes> XRevan86 wrote:Jul 16 14:33
smnthermes> oiaohm: It's not exactly the same thing when Rust is required to compile certain bits of the kernel.Jul 16 14:33
smnthermesSadly Rust has poor POSIX interoperabilityJul 16 14:33
smnthermesIt could be that software written in Rust could not be compiled without systemdJul 16 14:35
smnthermesIn the futureJul 16 14:35
oiaohmsmnthermes: History on some x86 you had to use the intel complier to built the memory management sections so it is very much the same things.Jul 16 14:37
oiaohmHistory played out that gcc improved in those areas and then the icc came unrequired.Jul 16 14:37
XRevan86smnthermes: You can compile a Rust programme without glibc, but systemd? Yea, very likely.Jul 16 14:37
oiaohmRust required by the Linux kernel could play out a few different ways.Jul 16 14:38
oiaohm`Historic icc way would would expect to see gcc pick up rust support.Jul 16 14:39
kingoffranceam i wrong to predict that at some point systemd and posix will do battle in a cage match?    i mean, they may never overlap, but are they inherently bound to battle at some point?Jul 16 14:39
kingoffrance"inherently" i mean re: peoples mindsetsJul 16 14:40
oiaohmposix is fairly much a dead end long term.Jul 16 14:41
kingoffranceput another way: could systemd be developed in a posix-compliant way, or will it be bound to conflict at some point?Jul 16 14:41
kingoffrancedue to ppl developing itJul 16 14:41
kingoffrancewell yeah, gnu compiler collectionJul 16 14:42
kingoffrancere: gcc picking up rust supportJul 16 14:42
kingoffrancethat is possibleJul 16 14:42
oiaohmReality is systemd could not be developed and work right using posix defined apis.Jul 16 14:43
oiaohmNo service management system can in fact.Jul 16 14:43
kingoffrancedont disagreeJul 16 14:43
oiaohmPosix includes the idea  of using PID numbers with no protection.Jul 16 14:43
MinceRoiaohm: builds fine with gcc instead of iccJul 16 14:44
oiaohmagainst PID reuse.Jul 16 14:44
oiaohmMinceR: that today but not historic.Jul 16 14:44
MinceRprocess management with PIDs and no protection still works better than cancerdJul 16 14:45
kingoffrancei just followed the thread "sadly rust has poor posix" "it could be sw written in rust could not be compiled without systemd in the future"  -> what about systemd?     point being, i dont have a horse in this raceJul 16 14:45
MinceRalso, afaik the non-forking sort of process management works better and still doesn't require anything outside POSIX.Jul 16 14:45
kingoffranceso im just askingJul 16 14:46
oiaohmpidfd in the Linux kernel has no equal in posix standard apis.      Concept of a trackable process to services that started. tree that cgroup make or zones make or any of the other in that class is outside POSIX.Jul 16 14:46
MinceR(the one where the service manager keeps managed services as its child processes and receives information on them as such)Jul 16 14:46
oiaohmMinceR: non forking processs management is still poorly handled if you stick to posix only apis.Jul 16 14:46
MinceRi'll take "poorly handled" over "total clusterfuck" any dayJul 16 14:47
oiaohmBasically where is your resource management MinceR look though the posix standards all that is really missing.Jul 16 14:47
oiaohmLike the 2017 release of the posix standard was really the 2008 posix standard with the 2 2008 add ons  and that was it.Jul 16 14:47
MinceRand by "total clusterfuck" i don't just mean "oh hey, the NFS server seems to be gone, so let's just wait forever", i also mean the fedora live media failing to boot at allJul 16 14:48
MinceRcancerd is really truly unreliable when out of ubuntu, fedora and debian, only debian even manages to reach the end of the installation processJul 16 14:48
oiaohmFedora live media failing to boot at all happened when they where using sysvinit as well.Jul 16 14:48
MinceRmaybe hedrat should look into doing something they have the faculties for, thenJul 16 14:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: AMD Navi 22 is listed in a Linux patch under the fuzzy name “Navy Flounder” []Jul 16 14:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: AMD Navi 22 is listed in a Linux patch under the fuzzy name “Navy Flounder” []Jul 16 14:49
oiaohmMinceR: Ubuntu using upstart and sysvinit managed to release broken lives and install discs as well.Jul 16 14:50
oiaohmThere has been a QA issue with a lot of distributions predating systemd.Jul 16 14:50
MinceRinteresting how major non-cancerd distros don't have these issuesJul 16 14:51
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MinceRi guess it's just that they're made by people who are not perfectly clueless (hence the lack of cancerd)Jul 16 14:51
oiaohmIts interesting that they had them before they go systemd.Jul 16 14:51
oiaohmgo/gotJul 16 14:51
MinceRwell, of courseJul 16 14:51
MinceRthey were clueless before they decided to adopt cancerdJul 16 14:51
oiaohmdebian has always had quite heavy QA system.Jul 16 14:51
MinceRthey adopted cancerd because they were clueless in the first placeJul 16 14:51
MinceRdebian seems to still avoid some parts of cancerdJul 16 14:52
MinceRthat's probably why it managed to install, boot and shutdownJul 16 14:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Decentralized #Messaging App #Riot Rebrands to #Element []Jul 16 14:52
oiaohmLot of the distributions that did not migrate to systemd also had decent QA teams of their own.Jul 16 14:52
MinceRor maybe the devuan people fix some of the most critical bugs in debian :>Jul 16 14:53
oiaohmNo the history has the first attempt of systemd with debian going up to the automated QA and getting straight up automatic fail messages.Jul 16 14:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: BSD Now, Going Linux , Self-Hosted and TLLTS []Jul 16 14:55
oiaohmA decent QA system you should be able to produce something that at least work near right no matter how bad the stuff you are starting from is.Jul 16 14:55
MinceRnot necessarilyJul 16 14:55
MinceRit could just produce nothingJul 16 14:55
MinceRbecause every attempt failed QAJul 16 14:55
MinceRQA can't guarantee that something good is produced, only that stuff that isn't good enough to be released, won't beJul 16 14:56
oiaohmDoing nothing is better than doing absolutely wrong.Jul 16 14:56
MinceRindeedJul 16 14:56
oiaohmSo nothing is still nearer to right than not having QAJul 16 14:56
MinceRi wish microsloth, crApple and dehomag listened to youJul 16 14:57
oiaohmdebian change to systemd was delayed by over 12 months due to QA failures.Jul 16 14:59
MinceRand apparently they "fixed" it by doing less QAJul 16 15:00
oiaohmNo they did not.Jul 16 15:00
oiaohmIn fact after systemd they increased their QA processes.Jul 16 15:01
oiaohmStill some goofs got though.Jul 16 15:01
MinceRyeah, like the one they call "systemd"Jul 16 15:02
MinceRalso, increasing the processes won't help when one ignores the outputJul 16 15:02
oiaohmconsolekit2 vs systemd that a horrible one.Jul 16 15:03
MinceRor designs them not to recognize certain issuesJul 16 15:03
MinceRindeedJul 16 15:03
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MinceRconsolekit was already horribleJul 16 15:03
MinceRthen they showed that it can be done even worse with systemd-logindJul 16 15:03
MinceRand elogind naturally inherited some of the idiocyJul 16 15:03
oiaohmconsolekit2 is not exactly great either.Jul 16 15:03
oiaohmRemember consolekit2 has a logind replacement as well.Jul 16 15:03
MinceRas if i wanted oneJul 16 15:03
oiaohmThe old consolekit had gone un maintained for security faults.Jul 16 15:04
oiaohmRock and hard place.Jul 16 15:04
MinceRi guess the fault was that they still had some security, despite their best effortsJul 16 15:04
oiaohmConsolekit was no where near well designed.Jul 16 15:05
oiaohmLots of areas have been in need of work for a long time.Jul 16 15:05
oiaohmsystemd does attempt to redo a lot of those areas.Jul 16 15:05
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Proprietary Software Leftovers []Jul 16 15:05
MinceRand makes one wish they hadn'tJul 16 15:06
MinceRor to just switch to OpenBSD with XenocaraJul 16 15:06
oiaohmOf course I wish someone would take what systemd is doing right and make something under a decent project leader with a serous quality code production background.Jul 16 15:06
MinceRthat's easy to do, considering that there's nothing that systemd is doing rightJul 16 15:07
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oiaohmUsing cgroups around services,  using pidfd to make sure you kill the right processes.   Having proper tracking for what processes users and services have started is a big thing.Jul 16 15:08
MinceRusing cgroups would be a good idea if cgroups were mature, but they aren'tJul 16 15:08
MinceRi wonder if pidfd even exists at this pointJul 16 15:08
MinceRand what systemd does is not "proper tracking"Jul 16 15:08
MinceRbeing unable to tell what processes you send SIGTERM to and deciding to just not bother and SIGKILL right away is certainly not properJul 16 15:08
MinceRand it has led to things like shells losing their historyJul 16 15:09
oiaohmpidfd is in your 5.3 and newer Linux kernels.Jul 16 15:09
MinceRgoodJul 16 15:09
MinceRdoes it work, unlike cgroups?Jul 16 15:09
MinceRand if so, can it be used for something without cgroups?Jul 16 15:09
oiaohmpidfd works and can be used with or without cgroups.Jul 16 15:10
MinceRmaybe someone should try doing thatJul 16 15:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Raspberry Pi and Other Linux Devices []Jul 16 15:10
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oiaohmIts simple you open a filehandle  on a pid and if the pid closes on you the filehandle gets that information so never sends a message to something that replaces the pid you opened the filehandle on.Jul 16 15:10
MinceRinstead of this whole "yeah, cgroups doesn't work, we know it doesn't work and we've given up on fixing it, but we're going to write a god daemon that does everything with cgroups and use entryism to take down distributions from the inside and force it on users who didn't as for it anyway!" thingJul 16 15:11
MinceRs/as f/ask f/Jul 16 15:11
oiaohmThat way you can open a fd on pid check that its the right process send a signel and be absloutely sure you sent it to the right place.Jul 16 15:11
oiaohmOr no where.Jul 16 15:11
MinceRthat filehandle sounds suspiciously like tracking subprocesses the POSIX wayJul 16 15:11
MinceRonly then you get a signal instead of an event on an fdJul 16 15:12
oiaohmsignel under the POSIX way allow the PID to be replaced and get false message.Jul 16 15:12
oiaohmpidfd is really a fix to a issue in the POSIX standard.Jul 16 15:13
oiaohm << basically pidfd is to use a filehandle where you would have used a PID number under posix.Jul 16 15:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Completing the pidfd API []Jul 16 15:14
MinceRhow do you replace the PID while the original process wasn't waited on and as such is still around as a zombie?Jul 16 15:14
oiaohmThere is a really horrible way that can happen.Jul 16 15:15
oiaohmYes thank you cgroups for it.Jul 16 15:15
oiaohmTo be correct namespaces.Jul 16 15:15
MinceRwell, if you stick to POSIX, you don't have namespacesJul 16 15:15
MinceRor if you implement POSIX properlyJul 16 15:16
MinceRi doubt it allows for your process just disappearing without the parent finding out about itJul 16 15:16
MinceRor getting its exit statusJul 16 15:16
oiaohm   process changing between PID namespaces will do it.  And posix standard write for how chroot is allowed to work allows this as well.Jul 16 15:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | pid_namespaces(7) - Linux manual pageJul 16 15:17
MinceRcan the process change between PID namespaces without its own knowledge?Jul 16 15:17
oiaohmYes and by posix define of chroot a process can be moved into a chroot without its knowledge as well.Jul 16 15:17
MinceRi don't see what chroot has to do with PID namespacesJul 16 15:18
oiaohmposix define say a chroot may fake the PID table.Jul 16 15:18
MinceRsounds like someone screwing around with a process from the outside and expecting nothing to breakJul 16 15:18
oiaohmbut does not have ot.Jul 16 15:18
oiaohmThank you open defined posix for you.Jul 16 15:18
oiaohmThink about it sun, IBM... with their Unixs wanted to make sure they could use their zones and so on for chroot without breaking posix standard of course so argued for some stupid allowances.Jul 16 15:20
oiaohmand then did not push for something like pidfd to be included in the posix standard to cover over the huge whole they dug.Jul 16 15:20
MinceRso if you don't do this to your process manager, it will still work fineJul 16 15:24
MinceRand you don't even have to rely on any of this namespace/zone messJul 16 15:25
MinceRif you need to manage processes in a different namespace/zone, you can run another instance of the service managerJul 16 15:25
MinceRs/process manager/service manager/gJul 16 15:25
oiaohmIt was only posix 2001 where they defined some rules about child process.  Yes  this by the Linux kernel is to the 2001 rules.   But how to handle  Parrent->child->child started by child is not define by posix.Jul 16 15:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Linux kernel: SignalsJul 16 15:32
oiaohmMinceR: basically multi layer forking processes is not in posix API define to handle and nothing on the future road map of posix is going to deal with it.Jul 16 15:34
MinceRi knowJul 16 15:34
MinceRmultiprocess services should manage their own childrenJul 16 15:35
MinceRand they do (unsurprisingly)Jul 16 15:35
oiaohmTo a point.Jul 16 15:35
oiaohmwhen you have like apache running php site or other horribles like that.Jul 16 15:35
oiaohmThe management can go out the window.Jul 16 15:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s programming leftovers and licence lawsuit []Jul 16 15:49
MinceR 16 15:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - EntropyJul 16 15:51
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Android Leftovers []Jul 16 16:03
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Beluga mesmerized by violin - YouTubeJul 16 16:10
schestowitzWhy is this beautiful creature inside a water tank and now in the sea?  Jul 16 16:11
MinceR 16 16:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - ApologyJul 16 16:32
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today’s howtos []Jul 16 16:32
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-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4345003)Jul 16 16:51
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: Virtualisation, BPF, and Btrfs []Jul 16 17:02
MinceR 16 17:26
XRevan86> Why You Should Never Do the Russian TwistJul 16 17:28
XRevan86> Ab Exercise To Avoid: The Russian TwistJul 16 17:28
MinceR:>Jul 16 17:30
MinceRwell, at least Death is still on the tableJul 16 17:30
XRevan86MinceR: Yea, I could found no article about it being a bad ab excerciseJul 16 17:30
XRevan86* findJul 16 17:30
MinceR:>Jul 16 17:30
schestowitzzoobab: 16 17:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | European Commission would welcome swift German ratification of Unified Patent Court Agreement - Kluwer Patent BlogJul 16 17:35
schestowitz"Jul 16 17:35
schestowitzTime for Boris to pull the plug and send its notification to the secretariat of the Council of the EU.Jul 16 17:35
schestowitzThat’s what Mr Tillman was suggesting in its previous interview.Jul 16 17:35
schestowitz"Jul 16 17:35
schestowitzDo you know who left this comment?Jul 16 17:35
schestowitzSounds a bit like your argumentJul 16 17:35
kingoffrance:>  reminds me of spy versus spy and/or plague mask MinceR Jul 16 17:45
kingoffranceits got a beakJul 16 17:45
kingoffrancewhich is not a bad emoticon for these timesJul 16 17:46
kingoffrances/plague mask/plague doctors/Jul 16 17:46
MinceR 16 17:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Soap OperaJul 16 17:58
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schestowitzzoobab: I got a message from that scholar you know tooJul 16 18:37
schestowitz> I will send updates once I have them.Jul 16 18:37
schestowitzThanks, I am in the same situation Ben is in. We discuss this in IRC in real time.Jul 16 18:37
schestowitzDid he message you as well?Jul 16 18:38
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DaemonFC[m]"To use extensions safely, upgrade to Google Chrome! We only get malicious payloads in those extensions all the time. Sometimes we yank them out when notified! Very safe!"Jul 16 18:44
DaemonFC[m]Chrome Extensions are like an open sewer. There's only a few that are almost certainly safe to install, and those are open source, and you have to be careful that you're not installing some sleazy ripoff app that will do nasty stuff until Google realizes it. Jul 16 18:45
schestowitzlolJul 16 18:45
schestowitzdo they link to Snowden leaks too when they put that in a GUI dialogue?Jul 16 18:46
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: FF is similar in my experience in recent monthsJul 16 18:46
schestowitzI installed a few searx onesJul 16 18:46
DaemonFC[m]Google was claiming in their "notice" to Edge users that they would be safer with Chrome than with Edge.Jul 16 18:46
schestowitzand they did all sorts of nasty thingsJul 16 18:46
schestowitzlike, going beyond changing the search engineJul 16 18:47
DaemonFC[m]It's one of those "pop up wars" where one nasty proprietary software company slings poo at the other, and round and round we go.Jul 16 18:47
schestowitzproprietary...Jul 16 18:47
DaemonFC[m]<schestowitz "like, going beyond changing the "> Yeah, and then they get auto updates, so anything bad they don't do now could be added and Chrome will just grab the new one.Jul 16 18:48
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schestowitz13,965 cases so far today in FLJul 16 18:49
schestowitzand it's only 1:30pm thereJul 16 18:49
DaemonFC[m]This notion of a "living web" that needs poorly tested browser updates every six weeks is just horrible.Jul 16 18:49
schestowitztoday they need to top 72k to maintain week-to-week growth weekday-to-weekdayJul 16 18:50
DaemonFC[m]Mozilla ends up bricking so many things that within a week there's sometimes two more point updates already.Jul 16 18:50
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: Mom was like "Well, if they don't reopen the schools, how are kids supposed to learn anything?".Jul 16 18:51
schestowitzthey might turn out like.... madame HarmoneJul 16 18:51
DaemonFC[m]I said, "Aren't you the one that's always complaining that adults who went to school don't know how to count change?".Jul 16 18:51
schestowitzstupid and bigotedJul 16 18:51
schestowitzand voting TrumpJul 16 18:51
schestowitzSince the 80s the GOP fought to make the population dumb Jul 16 18:52
schestowitzdefunded real educationJul 16 18:52
schestowitzit keeps people voting for themJul 16 18:52
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, pretty much. Jul 16 18:52
schestowitzI hope we aren't 'goners' like TrumplandJul 16 18:52
DaemonFC[m]Dawkins was talking about how religious private schools eat up tax money in the UK.Jul 16 18:52
DaemonFC[m]They're dumbing you down too.Jul 16 18:52
schestowitzI still don't think Trump will exit, even IF there's an election and IF he 'loses' itJul 16 18:52
schestowitzyou deal with a nutcaseJul 16 18:52
schestowitzhe now manipulates CDCJul 16 18:53
schestowitzwants to prevent hospital reporting deathsJul 16 18:53
schestowitztrucks with freezers run out of spaceJul 16 18:53
schestowitzmorguesJul 16 18:53
DaemonFC[m]Well, Florida is not counting deaths like the CDC says to.Jul 16 18:53
schestowitzand we don't know the REAL numbersJul 16 18:53
DaemonFC[m]They're covering up what's really happening.Jul 16 18:53
schestowitzI already DISTRUST all these official numbersJul 16 18:53
DaemonFC[m]New York switched to CDC reporting and added like 10,000-ish under those guidelines.Jul 16 18:53
schestowitzred states esp.Jul 16 18:53
DaemonFC[m]So you know Florida has thousands more than they'll admit to, at least.Jul 16 18:54
schestowitzdidn't  they fire in FL for reprting?Jul 16 18:54
schestowitzmonths ago iircJul 16 18:54
schestowitzmaybe aprilJul 16 18:54
DaemonFC[m]Yep.Jul 16 18:54
DaemonFC[m]So if they admit it's bad, it means it's way worse.Jul 16 18:54
schestowitz+156 deathsJul 16 18:54
schestowitzFLJul 16 18:54
DaemonFC[m]Not just red states.Jul 16 18:54
DaemonFC[m]California is "restricting" testing now.Jul 16 18:54
schestowitzred once seem to be coping worseJul 16 18:55
DaemonFC[m]It's just getting so far out of control they're saying fuck it why waste money.Jul 16 18:55
schestowitzah, that'll make the problem go awayJul 16 18:55
schestowitz"you test, you have a case" -TrumpJul 16 18:55
schestowitzYou check for pregnancy, you have an embryo!Jul 16 18:55
schestowitzGeniusJul 16 18:55
DaemonFC[m]California says they're reopening the schools after "restricting" testing to people with symptoms and at high risk.Jul 16 18:55
DaemonFC[m]So yeah..... That'll end well.Jul 16 18:55
schestowitzso they pass the wave through all the enderlyJul 16 18:56
DaemonFC[m]What they'll end up with are a bunch of plague spreading kids and nobody can get them tested anyway.Jul 16 18:56
schestowitzdooming themJul 16 18:56
schestowitzsooner or laterJul 16 18:56
schestowitzunless they can isolate from humanityJul 16 18:56
DaemonFC[m]So they'll run all over the place spewing the virus everywhere.Jul 16 18:56
schestowitzwhich they cannot, they need foodJul 16 18:56
schestowitzand some occasionally need to get meds and hospital visitsJul 16 18:56
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: Like 1/3rd of kids being tested in Florida end up having it right now.Jul 16 18:57
DaemonFC[m]I think the news said 32.7% or something.Jul 16 18:57
schestowitzwhat a MESSJul 16 18:57
schestowitzthis will ruin their bodiesJul 16 18:57
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, the government doesn't care.Jul 16 18:57
schestowitzI read in some journal about the effect on kidsJul 16 18:57
schestowitzit's still being studiedJul 16 18:57
schestowitzthe body changes insideJul 16 18:57
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: Jul 16 19:01
schestowitzfigosdev wrote to youJul 16 19:01
schestowitz> Please tell DFC that the original Kano was covered on Android Central inJul 16 19:01
schestowitz> 2018, and I don't think it was based on Windows then. I believe it wasJul 16 19:01
schestowitz> based on Android or even GNU/Linux.Jul 16 19:01
schestowitz> Jul 16 19:01
schestowitz> I'm sorry to hear they did exactly to Kano what was done to OLPC andJul 16 19:02
schestowitz> Asus. At least that's what it sounds like.Jul 16 19:02
schestowitz> Jul 16 19:02
schestowitz> "DFC" yeah, DFC in IRC. Cheers.Jul 16 19:02
schestowitzhe reads you over IRC and responds over E-mailJul 16 19:02
schestowitzRe: KanoJul 16 19:02
schestowitzRe: Kano OSJul 16 19:02
schestowitz> Kano's own website still has pages about "Kano OS" that was based onJul 16 19:02
schestowitz> Raspbian.Jul 16 19:02
schestowitz> Jul 16 19:02
schestowitz> It's truly sad they've gone Windows 10. *Open Source is just a shorterJul 16 19:02
schestowitz> way of saying "Bait and Switch". *Jul 16 19:02
schestowitz>'s_Free_Software_Dictionary#Shell_gameJul 16 19:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | A Critic's Free Software Dictionary - TechrightsJul 16 19:02
DaemonFC[m]I started laughing at the OLPC thing when it came with Windows XP.... I started calling it One License Per Child. Jul 16 19:02
schestowitzlolJul 16 19:03
schestowitznice oneJul 16 19:04
scientes SmartwatchJul 16 19:05
scientes    A watch that is smarter than any person who would wear one. Jul 16 19:05
scienteshahahahahaJul 16 19:05
MinceR:>Jul 16 19:05
DaemonFC[m]Oh god. Yeah, Mandy bought one.Jul 16 19:05
DaemonFC[m]John bought one. Then the TSA banned him from wearing it.Jul 16 19:05
MinceRlolJul 16 19:05
scientesstill very assholeJul 16 19:06
DaemonFC[m]Stupid ghetto trash that works for the TSA (using "work" in the broadest possible sense, as we are talking about the government _and_ the TSA), was standing around talking on their phone through their watch so the security cameras wouldn't see them with their phones out.Jul 16 19:06
schestowitz[19:05] <scientes>     A watch that is smarter than any person who would wear one. Jul 16 19:06
schestowitzthat's a good oneJul 16 19:06
DaemonFC[m]There's something amusing about a "security theater agency" that is trying to fool their own security cameras.Jul 16 19:06
schestowitzslant on many jokes already out thereJul 16 19:06
DaemonFC[m]I know an awful lot about the TSA that I probably shouldn't because John told me pretty much everything they told him.Jul 16 19:07
schestowitzyou can spill the beanJul 16 19:08
schestowitzand on Google too if at it or while at itJul 16 19:08
schestowitzyou never typed up anything about it, except in ircJul 16 19:08
DaemonFC[m]Everything Schneier said in Adam Ruins Everything is true, and more. Jul 16 19:08
DaemonFC[m]What we were doing before 9/11 was almost okay. What we needed were some policy, oh yeah, don't let the guy who set the metal detector off 5 fucking times through with box cutters.Jul 16 19:09
DaemonFC[m]The fortified cockpit doors (Are we still allowed to say cockpit? There might be some people with vaginas in there who take offense!) were obviously something that should have been mandatory already.Jul 16 19:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME, KDE, libvirt Packages Update in Tumbleweed []Jul 16 19:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stable Kernels: 5.7.9, 5.4.52, and 4.19.133 []Jul 16 19:11
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: The stewardx needs to take the pilot their Perfectly Mint tea through the pit of undetermined sexuality.Jul 16 19:12
DaemonFC[m]I'm getting the hang of this and it really is much better.Jul 16 19:12
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Jul 16 19:13
MinceRlolJul 16 19:14
DaemonFC[m]The rank system makes the captain ("them/they") the primary to the stewardx, which is a secondary.Jul 16 19:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 6 Best Linux File Recovery Software []Jul 16 19:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Konsole in 2020 []Jul 16 19:15
DaemonFC[m]I don't understand these people and their victim mentality. By being so easily triggered, they play right into the hand of the people who want to get a rise out of them, and merely ensure that the abuse will continue.Jul 16 19:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Jul 16 19:17
DaemonFC[m]If you don't play into it, the person in question just gets bored and goes away. It's like that Boondocks episode where the guy tries to start a "nigga moment" (oops) with a white person, and it was impossible.Jul 16 19:17
DaemonFC[m]"Come back! You're missing a perfectly good chance to throw your life away!"Jul 16 19:17
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MinceRthey don't want to avoid abuse, they want to control other peopleJul 16 19:19
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Up to 2.4GHz Odroid-N2-Plus may be fastest open-spec Arm SBC around []Jul 16 19:19
DaemonFC[m]You mean "become the masters"?Jul 16 19:19
MinceRyesJul 16 19:19
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: It wouldn't surprise me if those Kano PC people were paid big bucks by Microsoft in some back room deal.Jul 16 19:20
DaemonFC[m]They want to make sure that kids have no experience with Linux even if that means paying people to put Windows on those computers.Jul 16 19:20
DaemonFC[m]It's chump change to them, and they can just take it out of all of the money they make suing people who use Linux. Like where their "donations" to the Linux Foundation come from.Jul 16 19:21
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DaemonFC[m]This is the second time where they took a computer that was meant to be cheap, light, and efficient, and saddled it with some garbage OS for PCs from 30 years ago.Jul 16 19:22
DaemonFC[m]Which likes to style itself as "sleek and modern" (100 GB and cover it up with NTFS compression).Jul 16 19:22
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schestowitzhappened in Nigeria with MandrivaJul 16 19:23
schestowitzMicrosoft is crimeJul 16 19:23
DaemonFC[m]The size of C:\Windows with no NTFS folder compression is simply scandalous, even by the standards of modern bloatware. It really is something to behold. The lack of compression in ReFS was probably one reason why they won't let "consumers" use it. The jig would be up when they wanted to know what was pigging out on their free space.Jul 16 19:25
psydroidfortunately we have Raspberry Pis, Pinebooks and old laptops to reduce the influence of their crimesJul 16 19:27
DaemonFC[m]It really does amuse me that in ten years, the footprint of an installed GNU/Linux distribution with KDE that the user has not built upon at all yet went from maybe 5 to 6 GB (without btrfs compress....about 3.5 with) and, uhhh, Windows 7 to 10 has gone from about 20 to about 100 without compress and roughly 65 GB with compress.Jul 16 19:27
DaemonFC[m]Aside from that, the KDE GNU/Linux system has all kinds of usable software, including LibreOffice, whereas the Windows 10 has Candy Crush and "Hey you! Buy MS Office! Good luck finding out where these pop ups are coming from. It does change, you know!".Jul 16 19:28
scientes 16 19:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-35C3 - The nextpnr FOSS FPGA place-and-route tool - YouTubeJul 16 19:35
scientescool shitJul 16 19:35
MinceR 16 20:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4364844)Jul 16 20:08
DaemonFC[m]My impression of the Mac last I tried one, maybe 10 years ago. "This thing is like Linux in the Upside Down.".Jul 16 20:08
DaemonFC[m]It's like a really, really incompetent Linux that's slow and packed with terrible GUI concepts and DRM on a weird, slow, expensive computer.Jul 16 20:09
DaemonFC[m]Nathan Lineback on ToastyTech was using Windows 95 B forever.Jul 16 20:12
DaemonFC[m]There was actually a point in using Windows 98 like I had it set up. Just stripped down of all the garbage like IE and the Windows 95 B shell put in. Windows 95 actually couldn't read anything out of the disk cache as "active memory".Jul 16 20:13
DaemonFC[m]So, anything you tried using for disk cache came right out of the memory that could be running a program.Jul 16 20:13
DaemonFC[m]I can't imagine a technical reason why they would not have taken a bit of time to improve the memory manager of Windows 95 in this way, seeing as how computers with 95 tended to have less RAM than ones that came with 98.Jul 16 20:14
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sebsebsebMinceR: Apple Jul 16 20:19
DaemonFC[m]These ARM Macs are going to be a disaster on so many levels.Jul 16 20:20
DaemonFC[m]Maybe this is the point where people who pretend to be a power user with a Mac give up.Jul 16 20:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC[m]: disaster why ?Jul 16 20:21
DaemonFC[m]No x86 compatibility, no Wine, no Linux, no Windows 10 on boot camp.... Read-only file system that most open source software can't even cope with and breaks in hilarious ways...... Uhhhh.Jul 16 20:22
sebsebsebDaemonFC[m]: yeah but some of that is just arm, pine book pro is good thats armJul 16 20:22
DaemonFC[m]It also doesn't have the chip that makes Linux impossible.Jul 16 20:23
DaemonFC[m]Also, the ro / is another reason to run like hell away from Fedora.Jul 16 20:23
sebsebsebDaemonFC[m]: it doesnt have?  so linux could go on it ?Jul 16 20:23
DaemonFC[m]It's coming and eventually it won't be a request.Jul 16 20:23
sebsebsebto run away from fedora ????????/Jul 16 20:24
DaemonFC[m]Yeah.Jul 16 20:24
sebsebsebwhat do you mean ?Jul 16 20:24
DaemonFC[m]It's more "solutions" that "must be a great idea" because "Apple did it".Jul 16 20:25
sebsebsebohJul 16 20:25
sebsebsebohJul 16 20:25
DaemonFC[m]From people who don't know what the problem they're trying to solve is, and who create many huge problems with the solution in search of a problem.Jul 16 20:25
sebsebsebyeah could be Jul 16 20:25
DaemonFC[m]Also, I don't know if schestowitz noticed, but people on that BtrFS feature were violating the shit out of the CoC.Jul 16 20:26
DaemonFC[m]Abusive and hostile and passive-aggressive sarcasm, etc.Jul 16 20:26
sebsebsebhow they do that ?Jul 16 20:26
sebsebsebohJul 16 20:26
DaemonFC[m]So those are the same developers who pulled damnatio memoriae on Kevin Kofler.Jul 16 20:27
DaemonFC[m]Facebook apparently has so much pull on Fedora that they managed to ram it through outside of a fesco meeting.Jul 16 20:29
DaemonFC[m]Several people brought up that Red Hat was totally silent about this feature and that they had dropped the module itself from RHEL.Jul 16 20:30
DaemonFC[m]I read this situation as possibly "IBM has lost interest in Fedora so they can do whatever the hell they want. Soon there won't be any official Red Hat sponsorship at all.".Jul 16 20:31
DaemonFC[m]Then they entire project might collapse or have to find new sponsors.Jul 16 20:31
DaemonFC[m]A file system is so central to the underpinnings of the system that Red Hat is not only silent, but conspicuously absent from the conversation at all.Jul 16 20:32
psydroidhow are they going to make sure the enterprise products are going to be any good, if there aren't any volunteers who are going to test Fedora anymore?Jul 16 20:33
DaemonFC[m]I think the process of Fedora turning into abandonware that eventually collapses has started and we're witnessing that. Jul 16 20:33
DaemonFC[m]<psydroid "how are they going to make sure "> They don't really seem to care. RHEL has Fedora-like bugs cropping up in it more and more lately. Jul 16 20:33
DaemonFC[m]They're also losing a significant amount of their subscribers to Ubuntu, and nobody there wants to talk about it.Jul 16 20:34
DaemonFC[m]This has been a steady drip drip drip going on for years.Jul 16 20:34
DaemonFC[m]Something big and nasty is coming from IBM, says my spidey sense, we just don't know what that is yet.Jul 16 20:35
DaemonFC[m]I used Fedora on this laptop for years and initially 32 seemed to be okay, but so many problems gradually crept in through updates (not updates-testing, just....updates) that I gave up.Jul 16 20:36
DaemonFC[m]31 had a few issues like that. Like good kernel, bad kernel, good kernel, baaaaad kernel.Jul 16 20:36
DaemonFC[m]So I got around it by version locking myself on a kernel with security problems to avoid Intel fucking around incompetently and bricking things.Jul 16 20:37
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sebsebsebwhats this about fedora i am not following Jul 16 20:37
DaemonFC[m]My next computer, whenever that is, is going to be all AMD.Jul 16 20:38
psydroidI haven't used Fedora on real hardware for more than a decade (to be exact no version of Fedora after Fedora Core 1), but the past few years I have installed it in QEMU to see what has changedJul 16 20:38
DaemonFC[m]It seems there's some anti-AMD hostility going on in the Fedora circles, but who cares what they think? The distribution has been slowly taken over by Windows and Mac users with Microsoft Edge.Jul 16 20:38
DaemonFC[m]Their stupid fucking CoC.Jul 16 20:39
DaemonFC[m]IBM letting it bitrot while they have food fights that skirt the CoC if only barely.Jul 16 20:39
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, run. Run like hell.Jul 16 20:43
DaemonFC[m]There were two Linux distributions in the past that struck me as exceptionally bad (around 2007/2008). Sabayon and OpenSUSE.Jul 16 20:44
DaemonFC[m]Call me crazy, but I think that the organizational layout of your recommended third party software sources should be unable to conflict with each other to break the package manager irreparably. Jul 16 20:45
DaemonFC[m]So that was OpenSUSE.Jul 16 20:45
DaemonFC[m]Dad told me he used it and I was like "HOW!?".Jul 16 20:45
DaemonFC[m]Then I tried Sabayon because it seemed interesting "binary packages and Gentoo based", but they had package manager that was so slow you could go on vacation before it got done installing something, and more often, freezing up and corrupting its own database.Jul 16 20:46
DaemonFC[m]Then I tried Debian 6 at some point and the Desktop Role was pretty difficult to actually set up.Jul 16 20:47
DaemonFC[m]Nobody has done sound mixing right on Linux, but without Pulseaudio it's a race to the sound card and the loser crashes.Jul 16 20:47
DaemonFC[m]So that's not better.Jul 16 20:47
DaemonFC[m]Sound mixing really should be done in the kernel.Jul 16 20:48
DaemonFC[m]There's some things that shouldn't ever go into the kernel and especially not like they are now.Jul 16 20:48
DaemonFC[m]DBus is one of those things where they wanted to just shove it in the kernel because it's slow, and then Linus said no, so they went to work actually rebuilding the damned thing, and it turns out you could do a much better job in userspace and the kernel thing was basically "Let's just pack this total piece of junk in there.".Jul 16 20:49
DaemonFC[m]If it's something that is going to have to make a ton of context switches and that's fundamentally the only reason it's too slow, you might want to look and see if having it in the kernel is the right way to go.Jul 16 20:50
DaemonFC[m]From what I understand, DBus doesn't make a ton of context switches, it's just a fucking pile of crap.Jul 16 20:51
DaemonFC[m]If it's something that can mostly stay out in userspace, shoving it into the kernel is not going to be a huge performance win just because you did it.Jul 16 20:52
DaemonFC[m]I'm surprised that these "kernel developers" even need to get to the part where Linus NEEDS to scream at them.Jul 16 20:52
DaemonFC[m]Without losing their commit access entirely.Jul 16 20:52
MinceRunfortunately, Linus will no longer scream at themJul 16 20:53
DaemonFC[m]Microsoft started doing the opposite. Dumping things that should be in the kernel to userspqce to make nasty DRM work more effectively.Jul 16 20:55
DaemonFC[m]"If the user attempts to copy the output, Windows can intentionally crash the video driver and then bring it back up."Jul 16 20:56
DaemonFC[m]I was like, "Did I just read that right? We have Windows intentionally crashing the driver now. Wonderful.".Jul 16 20:56
DaemonFC[m]It turns out that they have this concept of tilt bits when the Protected Video Path is active.Jul 16 20:57
MinceRdon't worry, you won't noticeJul 16 20:58
MinceRbecause it will crash anywayJul 16 20:58
DaemonFC[m]If too many things are going on that Windows suspects you're copying it, boom.Jul 16 20:58
psydroiddo we want to have Linus screaming again? is that even a possibility anymore this far into development of the Linux kernel?Jul 16 20:58
MinceRyes we doJul 16 20:59
MinceRhe's probably the only sane person they might listen toJul 16 20:59
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dabblerdudeHey guys.Jul 16 21:03
DaemonFC[m]HiJul 16 21:09
DaemonFC[m] 16 21:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-FreeBSD Getting Close To Finally Migrating Development From Subversion To Git - PhoronixJul 16 21:09
DaemonFC[m]I guess now that Microsoft says it's okay, FreeBSD can migrate to git.Jul 16 21:09
MinceR:>Jul 16 21:10
DaemonFC[m]Those old revision control systems completely fell apart if you had more than a few people with commit access.Jul 16 21:10
dabblerdudeI checked out the Basilisk web browser. It's basically Firefox under a different name.Jul 16 21:12
dabblerdudeSame interface and everything.Jul 16 21:12
DaemonFC[m]It looks the same anyway.Jul 16 21:20
dabblerdudeYeah, I went on to the website for it and all they offer for Linux is a portable install via tarball file. Is there another way I could fully integrate it into my system through a PPA, .deb file, or something like that?Jul 16 21:20
dabblerdudeNever mind, that's a tech question. My mistake.Jul 16 21:21
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DaemonFC[m]CNN: "You can see the initial unemployment claims are not as bad as they were in March and April." LOLJul 16 21:36
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, you know, after losing most of your blood, the bleeding starts to slow down a bit.Jul 16 21:36
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superkuhBut why Basilisk instead of PM?Jul 16 21:39
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dabblerdudeI'm not preferring one over the other but it'd be nice to know that there's another way to install it besides a portable file.Jul 16 21:41
dabblerdudeI could go with either or.Jul 16 21:41
MinceR 16 21:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4364727)Jul 16 21:41
dabblerdudeAt least with Pale Moon, you can install it via PPA.Jul 16 21:43
dabblerdudeThere's another way to install that with a lot of commands as shown on their website.Jul 16 21:43
MinceR(cat) (audio:unimportant) 16 21:53
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DaemonFC[m]Kubuntu is the first distribution that pops up if you click "Get KDE on your computer.".Jul 16 22:30
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DaemonFC[m] 16 22:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | White House Reportedly Orders Hospitals To Bypass CDC During COVID-19 Data Collection - SlashdotJul 16 22:42
DaemonFC[m]Trump tells hospitals to send patient data to a spyware company owned by Peter Thiel instead of the CDC. Jul 16 22:42
DaemonFC[m] 16 22:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Is It Time To Kill the Penny? - SlashdotJul 16 22:43
DaemonFC[m]Pennies aren't really worth anything anymore. What keeps them around despite the fact that they cost three times more to make than they are worth is lobbying from the company that makes pennies.Jul 16 22:44
MinceRoh my god, you killed penny. you bastards.Jul 16 22:44
DaemonFC[m]They're actually kind of a nuisance. Many people just throw them away or they get lost down a storm drain or something because they're not worth picking up. Especially with the pandemic. :PJul 16 22:45
DaemonFC[m] 16 22:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IBM Job Ad Calls For a Minimum 12 Years' Experience With Kubernetes -- Which is Six Years Old - SlashdotJul 16 22:45
MinceRpeople at dehomag know nothing about IT? there's a shocker.Jul 16 22:46
DaemonFC[m] 16 22:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Microsoft Warns of a 17-Year-Old ‘Wormable’ Bug | WIREDJul 16 22:46
*DaemonFC[m] sent a long message: < >Jul 16 22:47
DaemonFC[m]Meaning that there are no patches for anything older than Windows 8, right?Jul 16 22:48
MinceRsmaller organizations need to come to their fucking senses and switch to a DNS server that works, thenJul 16 22:48
DaemonFC[m]They cut off Windows 7 in January so they might do a patch if you buy EOL support from them.Jul 16 22:48
DaemonFC[m]This one is so bad that Microsoft might pull an "exception" and toss a patch out to Windows 7 just to spare themselves the embarrassment of a huge worm attack that the media has to cover.Jul 16 22:49
DaemonFC[m]They do that sometimes.Jul 16 22:49
MinceRAD is a bad jokeJul 16 22:49
MinceRit can't even store passwords reliably.Jul 16 22:50
MinceRmicroshit's problem with issuing fixes to EOL-ed releases is that not only they have to fix the bug, but they also have to implement a new backdoor for the NSA. :>Jul 16 22:53
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New Pine64 phones with upgraded hardware begin shipping in August []Jul 16 23:19
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Linux Performance For AMD Rome vs. Intel Cascade Lake One Year After Launch []Jul 16 23:23
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Calibre 4.21 E-book Manager Released with Support for Kobo Nia, Improvements []Jul 16 23:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu 19.10 “Eoan Ermine” Reached End of Life, Upgrade to Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Now []Jul 16 23:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Jul 16 23:27

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