Join us now at the IRC channel.
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: And in other episodes lacl of translation was used as an indication that something happened to TARDIS. | Dec 16 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| XRevan86 | lack * | Dec 16 00:00 |
| MinceR | maybe then they used the coterminous TARDIS | Dec 16 00:00 |
| MinceR | in as much as that makes sense with relativity... | Dec 16 00:00 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: that was destruction of the TARDIS that was a time lock put in the TARDIS disrupting the link across time. | Dec 16 00:01 |
| XRevan86 | Why didn't a TARDIS from some other point in time immediately kick in then, hm? | Dec 16 00:01 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: Dr who around that translation stuff does not in fact have plot holes. Have some complete theory time crap. | Dec 16 00:02 |
| oiaohm | So there is a complete set of rules to what breaks and does not break translation. | Dec 16 00:03 |
| XRevan86 | Somehow this makes my head hurt more than galaxy sizes | Dec 16 00:04 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: Another rule come into effect. It shows up when have eposides when TARDIS uses in fact interfer badly with the timeline. | Dec 16 00:04 |
| oiaohm | uses/users | Dec 16 00:05 |
| oiaohm | time locked tardis is still connected to you. If another Tardis connect you it the result is paradox. | Dec 16 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Paradox triggers really horrible things in Dr Who world. | Dec 16 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Ie Tardis destroyed another point in time Tardis can pick up slack. | Dec 16 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Locked its screwed. | Dec 16 00:06 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: I do agree following the Dr who rules does cause galaxy size headaches. | Dec 16 00:07 |
| MinceR | lol | Dec 16 00:07 |
| XRevan86 | I wonder how jelly babies taste like | Dec 16 00:07 |
| MinceR | probably like jelly beans | Dec 16 00:08 |
| XRevan86 | jelly beans and jelly rover minis | Dec 16 00:08 |
| MinceR | jelly bellies | Dec 16 00:08 |
| oiaohm | Dr who rules are intentionally wirten to allow items that don't seam to make much sense. | Dec 16 00:09 |
| oiaohm | While in fact 100 percent obey rules. | Dec 16 00:09 |
| danielp3344 | ^ | Dec 16 00:10 |
| *danielp3344 has every doctor who episode ever | Dec 16 00:10 | |
| oiaohm | I remember the one pardox eposide where the doctor runs into the tardis to find nothing but a normal box. | Dec 16 00:10 |
| danielp3344 | including a box with like 40 lbs of VHS tapes | Dec 16 00:10 |
| MinceR | nice | Dec 16 00:10 |
| MinceR | do you have them all in digital form as well? | Dec 16 00:10 |
| danielp3344 | still working on watching them all lol | Dec 16 00:10 |
| MinceR | (also, i thought some episodes were lost forever...) | Dec 16 00:10 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: yeah | Dec 16 00:10 |
| danielp3344 | someone already has it on TPB | Dec 16 00:10 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 16 00:11 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: well OK, most of them | Dec 16 00:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Daniel Peterson: The BBC wants to know if anyone has the missing episodes. | Dec 16 00:11 |
| MinceR | i'll need to buy an HDD that can hold that torrent | Dec 16 00:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Apparently they lost the only copies because nobody was pirating things on the internet back then. | Dec 16 00:11 |
| danielp3344 | DaemonFC: I don't, dw | Dec 16 00:11 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: They seem to be more like marmalade coated in powdered sugar. | Dec 16 00:11 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: Also to be horrible the outer shell of the tardis and the core of the tardis don't have to be linked. So Tardis destroyed is hard thing to be sure of. | Dec 16 00:11 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 16 00:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Well, the inside is bigger than the outside because it's warping the space on the inside in some way. | Dec 16 00:12 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: A different dimension and stuff, yes. | Dec 16 00:12 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: No, it was explained as a dimension | Dec 16 00:12 |
| XRevan86 | Whatever that means | Dec 16 00:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Bottle universe? | Dec 16 00:13 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: and the inside of the tardis is multi dimensions not a single one. As show as how it can in fact have multi control rooms. | Dec 16 00:13 |
| *danielp3344 hasn't really thought about DW in a while | Dec 16 00:14 | |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: A different dimension can have different space rules | Dec 16 00:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | When the tardis is destroyed, it ends up regenerating. | Dec 16 00:14 |
| danielp3344 | I kinda gave up on science fiction after star wars died | Dec 16 00:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Like the Doctor. | Dec 16 00:14 |
| danielp3344 | then DW died too | Dec 16 00:14 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: so there is the possible that the translation part managed to not be destroyed | Dec 16 00:14 |
| XRevan86 | danielp3344: A new season of The Expanse just aired | Dec 16 00:14 |
| danielp3344 | I've decided it's a bad idea to have ongoing fictional works | Dec 16 00:14 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC[m]: also when the Tardis regnerates not all the prior tardis is gone either. | Dec 16 00:15 |
| danielp3344 | because at some point someone will ruin it | Dec 16 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | danielp3344: Doctor Who survived worse | Dec 16 00:15 |
| danielp3344 | XRevan86: eh? | Dec 16 00:15 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: the black hole power plant of the tardis is in its own dimension inside the Tardis. | Dec 16 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | danielp3344: Sixth Doctor cancellation | Dec 16 00:15 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: along with other things. | Dec 16 00:16 |
| *danielp3344 does not know of this | Dec 16 00:16 | |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: Tardis is one confusing mess. | Dec 16 00:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They just gave up explaining it. | Dec 16 00:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | "timey wimey stuff" | Dec 16 00:16 |
| danielp3344 | XRevan86: Collin Baker? | Dec 16 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | danielp3344: You must have noticed how abruptly it ends, and the Seventh Doctor starts. There's no closure. | Dec 16 00:17 |
| danielp3344 | oh that | Dec 16 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | danielp3344: yes | Dec 16 00:17 |
| danielp3344 | I only recently started watching them all in series | Dec 16 00:17 |
| danielp3344 | so my coverage is a bit limited | Dec 16 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | The Seventh Doctor also ends midseries | Dec 16 00:18 |
| XRevan86 | But he has some closure in the film. | Dec 16 00:18 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: the 6 doctor is kind of ended in The Stranger series | Dec 16 00:19 |
| oiaohm | Where they kind of reference Dr who but never say it because it don't have BBC approval. | Dec 16 00:20 |
| XRevan86 | January 1st a new season will start airing. I haven't followed the news, so I have no expectations. I don't even know who left and who remained. | Dec 16 00:21 |
| XRevan86 | But I hope they cleaned up their act. | Dec 16 00:21 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stranger_(video_series) << Basically something most people don't know exits. | Dec 16 00:21 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | The Stranger (video series) - Wikipedia | Dec 16 00:21 | |
| XRevan86 | 11th season was… the worst one. | Dec 16 00:21 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: I'm definitely checking that out. | Dec 16 00:22 |
| MinceR | star wars wasn't even sci-fi, it's space fantasy | Dec 16 00:22 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: space western | Dec 16 00:24 |
| MinceR | :) | Dec 16 00:25 |
| XRevan86 | Jedi cowboys | Dec 16 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Really Star wars movies have been recut so many times it stupid. | Dec 16 00:26 |
| XRevan86 | Use the Force, Frodo | Dec 16 00:26 |
| XRevan86 | People say the TV series Mandalorian is good. | Dec 16 00:27 |
| MinceR | the power of the force is insignificant next to the ability to destroy a planet | Dec 16 00:27 |
| oiaohm | Like does hans solo shot first or second with Greedo depends on what version of the movie you want. | Dec 16 00:27 |
| XRevan86 | Use the Deathstar, Sauron | Dec 16 00:27 |
| oiaohm | Also good question are we with the rebels in fact watching the good guys. | Dec 16 00:28 |
| MinceR | easy | Dec 16 00:28 |
| MinceR | the rebels are the good guys | Dec 16 00:28 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: I watched the fan-cut version | Dec 16 00:28 |
| MinceR | but the light side is not necessarily the good side | Dec 16 00:28 |
| XRevan86 | Rebels are extremists | Dec 16 00:28 |
| XRevan86 | Who want to undermine legitimate authority | Dec 16 00:29 |
| MinceR | (at least as far as rules regarding dark side points go, light is order/stasis and dark is chaos/dynamism) | Dec 16 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Like we told storm troopers are very good shots many times yet they seam to miss like mad. | Dec 16 00:29 |
| MinceR | there were a few explanations for that | Dec 16 00:29 |
| MinceR | their helmets being hard to see out of, bad batch/design of blasters | Dec 16 00:29 |
| XRevan86 | If they want their way, they should work within the system through the democratic^W bureaucratic process. | Dec 16 00:29 |
| MinceR | the system doesn't work | Dec 16 00:30 |
| MinceR | also, there's nothing legitimate about a dictatorship | Dec 16 00:30 |
| XRevan86 | </ Putin1<3 > | Dec 16 00:30 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 16 00:30 |
| oiaohm | What if the storm troppers are always trying to shoot to wound not kill. | Dec 16 00:30 |
| MinceR | that sounds familiar | Dec 16 00:30 |
| MinceR | there was also the hypothesis that jar jar binks was a powerful force user | Dec 16 00:31 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: Don't overthink it. | Dec 16 00:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Okay, how does Jar Jar end up being a force user? | Dec 16 00:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I don't see him use it once. | Dec 16 00:32 |
| oiaohm | I have always wondered if star wars is kind of the revese wild west. Ie the white hat guy always trying to shot gun out hand instead of kill. | Dec 16 00:32 |
| XRevan86 | It's just a cliché (or a very conventional plot hole) that main characters are extremely lucky | Dec 16 00:32 |
| MinceR | https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w/ | Dec 16 00:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.reddit.com | [Theory] Jar Jar Binks was a trained Force user, knowing Sith collaborator, and will play a central role in The Force Awakens : StarWars | Dec 16 00:32 | |
| oiaohm | ie crappy wild west movies I mean by revese wild west. | Dec 16 00:32 |
| MinceR | tame east? | Dec 16 00:32 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: oh hey, that's me! | Dec 16 00:33 |
| MinceR | who? | Dec 16 00:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Main characters start dying if the show is losing its ratings. | Dec 16 00:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Walking Dead started doing it a bunch. | Dec 16 00:34 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Population of one particular country | Dec 16 00:34 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 16 00:34 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: Yes, but never has a random stormtrooper have their way | Dec 16 00:34 |
| XRevan86 | Just by doing their job. | Dec 16 00:35 |
| oiaohm | Its just something I have wondered about starwars white-hat/black hat is basically obeyed. | Dec 16 00:35 |
| oiaohm | From the old 1960 westons. | Dec 16 00:35 |
| XRevan86 | If a character is going to die, it must be sudden, dramatic, etc. | Dec 16 00:35 |
| XRevan86 | Not casually by some overworked police guy. | Dec 16 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Ie dark vador black will attempt to kill instantly. Storm troopers white will attempt to capture alive even if putting them at disadvantage. | Dec 16 00:36 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: No, they're just minions. | Dec 16 00:37 |
| XRevan86 | extras | Dec 16 00:38 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: Compare them to orcs in the LOTR films if that helps. | Dec 16 00:39 |
| oiaohm | But it not only the storm troopers who are minions. You sometimes see officals shoot and they are better shots. | Dec 16 00:40 |
| XRevan86 | No white helmets but almost just as useless. | Dec 16 00:40 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: They're the lowest extras | Dec 16 00:40 |
| XRevan86 | they don't even have faces, because they don't mstter | Dec 16 00:40 |
| XRevan86 | From a storytelling standpoint they're not characters at all. | Dec 16 00:41 |
| XRevan86 | Closer to a tripod sentry with a gun than to a human being. | Dec 16 00:42 |
| XRevan86 | And of course in film sentries miss just as well, even though realistically a human has no chance against a futuristic autoaim gun. | Dec 16 00:43 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: It doesn't make sense, but you can't fix it post-factum by applying some philosophy like a patch to it. | Dec 16 00:47 |
| XRevan86 | It's a trope, a myriad of dumb minions, nothing more. | Dec 16 00:48 |
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| oiaohm | XRevan86: it all depends what the auto aim gun has been set to target | Dec 16 00:53 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: think autoaim gun coded only to target feet and hands and is suffering from processing lag. | Dec 16 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Would be a quite useless weapon. | Dec 16 00:56 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: Nice try, but those sentriy guns almost always operate like machine guns | Dec 16 01:10 |
| XRevan86 | Not very precise. | Dec 16 01:10 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: Metal Storm's Area Denial Weapons System was 40 mm shells but could fire 2 two rounds to take out incoming rpgs. | Dec 16 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Basicaly 2 rounds per incoming rpg and it no more. | Dec 16 01:30 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: to be exact the Redback system . Does not operate machine gun. 2 rounds per target. | Dec 16 01:35 |
| oiaohm | 40mm rounds kind of means close is dead .\ | Dec 16 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Yes that is 40mm electronically timed rounds. | Dec 16 01:35 |
| oiaohm | But you could progrom them wrong. | Dec 16 01:36 |
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| cubexyz | normal.sh | Dec 16 03:11 |
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| schestowitz | Anon:> One article mentioned that Vista10 is forcing unblockable ads onto its machines. Not finding a proper verification yet though. | Dec 16 05:49 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: do you know? | Dec 16 05:49 |
| schestowitz | or anyone else for that matter? | Dec 16 05:49 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: I have not heard of that yet. | Dec 16 05:53 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: https://help.getadblock.com/support/solutions/articles/6000168247-i-m-seeing-ads-in-file-explorer-and-other-windows-10-apps I have seen ones like this where you have todo odd ball things to turn them off. | Dec 16 05:55 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-help.getadblock.com | I'm seeing ads for Microsoft products in File Explorer and other Windows apps : AdBlock Help | Dec 16 05:55 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: thanks, I will relay that back to Anon | Dec 16 05:57 |
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| linuxgirl1 | Hi :-) | Dec 16 06:51 |
| linuxgirl1 | Just reading jagadees' article about coming out from the box. Good article, and I'm wondering how ideas can be grounded, genuinely. There's no LF or FSF that will organise protests or that seems to be about genuine Linux users' right and about Linux values. Spreading information felt most accessible when reading that end paragraph, but, like any | Dec 16 06:54 |
| linuxgirl1 | ideas, it needs a central point of organisation ... so who would do that? A central site, advertised from reddit to trisquel and beyond, about e.g. leaflets? Leaflets saying about the true values of Linux (privacy, freedom, choice, which must matter to many more people as each week passes | Dec 16 06:54 |
| linuxgirl1 | What would be the best way to spread information? I can only see a new organisation, that goes to the core of peoples' desire for privacy/freedom/choice. From that, people would automatically want to protest, and numbers grow. | Dec 16 06:57 |
| linuxgirl1 | It might sound ludicrous in some way, as many people have done much work to spread information about Linux over lots of years, but there's never been a time when people are more aware of privacy/freedom/choice than now. | Dec 16 06:57 |
| linuxgirl1 | Leaflet drops worked in war times, lol, and leafletting is something everyone can do, from printing to spreading leaflets about. | Dec 16 06:58 |
| linuxgirl1 | Win7 is EOL soon, so there will be lots of new people coming over ... that would make some difference, but, to make something political, with a view to actually protesting en masse, we need far more than that. Having a reach everywhere, fully focussed on what matters most to people, could wake more people up, and, even if they didn't use Linux, | Dec 16 07:00 |
| linuxgirl1 | they may well fight purely on the basis of privacy/freedom/choice and against corporations they may feel forced to go along with at work. | Dec 16 07:00 |
| linuxgirl1 | And at least people could feel they were doing something ... printing out leaflets, sharing them round, waking people up, about not only Linux but doing something about real values. | Dec 16 07:02 |
| schestowitz | hi | Dec 16 07:03 |
| linuxgirl1 | Hello :-) | Dec 16 07:03 |
| linuxgirl1 | Just typing away to myself, lol | Dec 16 07:03 |
| linuxgirl1 | Just a simple site, with the leaflet there, and an IRC or something, could be cool. | Dec 16 07:04 |
| schestowitz | ok, I am also typing | Dec 16 07:05 |
| schestowitz | but articles... | Dec 16 07:05 |
| linuxgirl1 | Cool | Dec 16 07:05 |
| linuxgirl1 | Boycotting corporate-focussed eg take for example Manjaro, which has taken a definitely corporate turn, and openly said on a thread that they give data to Canonical and how wonderful the Canonical guys are (that's when I left Manjaro!) ... if nobody gives this kind of thing any support, the tentacles dry up. | Dec 16 07:08 |
| linuxgirl1 | If everybody left Github, what would MS do? | Dec 16 07:09 |
| oiaohm | linuxgirl1: the problem is to where. | Dec 16 07:10 |
| linuxgirl1 | Maybe waking up those who use Linux but with no concern for privacy/freedom/choice ie too corporate-focussed, need waking up more. | Dec 16 07:10 |
| linuxgirl1 | there was mass exodus to Gitlab | Dec 16 07:11 |
| linuxgirl1 | I often read Linux users saying AI is wonderful, some telemetry is fine, azure/cloud/whatever is great | Dec 16 07:11 |
| oiaohm | gitlab takes you to the google cloud instead. | Dec 16 07:11 |
| schestowitz | linuxgirl1: what users? | Dec 16 07:12 |
| schestowitz | I don't see those.. | Dec 16 07:12 |
| schestowitz | they're dismissive of these things | Dec 16 07:12 |
| linuxgirl1 | I skim Reddit, unfortunately | Dec 16 07:12 |
| schestowitz | lol MS Reddit | Dec 16 07:12 |
| linuxgirl1 | I use the old version/no javascript, as I don't really know many places to get up to date Linux news | Dec 16 07:12 |
| schestowitz | reddit doesn't even RENDER on Linux browsers !! | Dec 16 07:13 |
| linuxgirl1 | ? | Dec 16 07:13 |
| schestowitz | yup | Dec 16 07:13 |
| schestowitz | sometimes not even on old versions of chrome/chromium | Dec 16 07:13 |
| schestowitz | anyway, people who use reddit AND gnu/linux... well, I have an idea about those | Dec 16 07:13 |
| schestowitz | and r eddit went proprietary btw | Dec 16 07:13 |
| linuxgirl1 | what? | Dec 16 07:13 |
| schestowitz | that's when I stopped even looking at that sitye | Dec 16 07:13 |
| linuxgirl1 | I don't use reddit; no account | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | they banned me | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | for no good reason | Dec 16 07:14 |
| linuxgirl1 | well done | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | yup | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | and the commenter there also like to smear me, defend mono, MS loves Linux etc. | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | there's always a stench there | Dec 16 07:14 |
| oiaohm | linuxgirl1: really is not as simple as as people thinks. Someone has to pick up the bill for hosting and other things. | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | Conde Nast-pwned | Dec 16 07:14 |
| schestowitz | employer of MS Peter, the child rapist who did PR gigs for Microsoft | Dec 16 07:15 |
| linuxgirl1 | I skim a few places, and see people dedicated about values, but a significant proportion who are too corporate-minded and supporting ... waking them up, within Linux, would add strength to spreading knowledge and protests against proprietary | Dec 16 07:15 |
| oiaohm | linuxgirl1: being against proprietary does not mean you should be against having those proprietary companys foot the bill. | Dec 16 07:15 |
| linuxgirl1 | buy me a coffee, a little crowd funder ... lots of ways simple hosting could be covered | Dec 16 07:16 |
| oiaohm | Hosting well run open source projects is not your simplest hosting. | Dec 16 07:16 |
| oiaohm | when it come to on going funding for open source projects lot of different crowd funding methods have failed. | Dec 16 07:18 |
| linuxgirl1 | I don't know if this is a presumptuous idea, and apologies if it is, but a leaflet added here? with contribution to hosting, and ppl can pop into this IRC? | Dec 16 07:18 |
| oiaohm | You are talking about stuff that has been attempted | Dec 16 07:19 |
| linuxgirl1 | what would spread information to non-Linux users, and those within Linux who are corporate-supporting? | Dec 16 07:19 |
| oiaohm | the most stable funding for open source projects turns out to be companies using those projects. | Dec 16 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft for azure and other places uses a ton load of open source stuff that they need to work. | Dec 16 07:20 |
| linuxgirl1 | I don't know when stuff was attempted, but things are very critical about privacy/freedom/choice nowadays, so maybe things done now would work | Dec 16 07:20 |
| oiaohm | Information security is important to large companies too. | Dec 16 07:20 |
| linuxgirl1 | exactly, ms USES linux | Dec 16 07:21 |
| oiaohm | choice end up important when companies are building solutions. | Dec 16 07:21 |
| linuxgirl1 | I'm not interested in big companies, but just addressing the article that was saying what is needed is more information out to people, with a view to protesting proprietary | Dec 16 07:21 |
| oiaohm | Protesting proprietary has to be done carefully. | Dec 16 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Like you can protest using like MS Office and MS Windows. | Dec 16 07:22 |
| linuxgirl1 | I realise that things need to be done wisely, and it starts with actual Linux users stopping pushing for corporate, and actively boycotting eg Github | Dec 16 07:23 |
| oiaohm | But it does not pay to protest Microosoft funding hosting and CI so that software | Dec 16 07:23 |
| linuxgirl1 | There's no point discussing information and protest then, if the bottom line is that we're bound to MS ... pointless, and Linux will continue down a bad path | Dec 16 07:24 |
| linuxgirl1 | Linux was fine before MS bought Github, so people withdrawing their support would revert to better times | Dec 16 07:24 |
| oiaohm | linuxgirl1: https://help.github.com/en/actions/automating-your-workflow-with-github-actions/virtual-environments-for-github-hosted-runners Wrong theory you are not looking at what github gives open source development. | Dec 16 07:25 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-help.github.com | Virtual environments for GitHub-hosted runners - GitHub Help | Dec 16 07:25 | |
| linuxgirl1 | Okay, you support MS. I definitely do not, and there seems no point talking about how to spread Linux information and protest the proprietary corporations. | Dec 16 07:25 |
| linuxgirl1 | I thought this IRC was people who don't support MS. The IRC logs I read normally show that. | Dec 16 07:26 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly support. Boycott github means not using a stack of free resources that can be used to imporve open source software quality. | Dec 16 07:26 |
| oiaohm | Not just on windows platforms. | Dec 16 07:26 |
| oiaohm | Notice there Microsoft is funding OS X emulation | Dec 16 07:27 |
| linuxgirl1 | Plenty of people left Github, and are doing fine on Gitlab, plus I've heard mention of somewhere else but can't recall the name | Dec 16 07:27 |
| linuxgirl1 | Support and dependency on MS, on LINUX of all things, is surreal ... Linux was created, IS code, and can surely have a non-MS/Google place for code. | Dec 16 07:28 |
| linuxgirl1 | if people care to | Dec 16 07:28 |
| oiaohm | linuxgirl1: https://about.gitlab.com/blog/2016/04/19/how-to-set-up-gitlab-runner-on-digitalocean/ There is a problem. The free runners on gitlab don't give you OS X or Windows. | Dec 16 07:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-about.gitlab.com | How to set up GitLab Runner on DigitalOcean | GitLab | Dec 16 07:29 | |
| oiaohm | linuxgirl1: if you are trying to make software that bridges the gap what gitlab is giving you is quite limited. | Dec 16 07:30 |
| oiaohm | Some project keep a github account because it makes sense. | Dec 16 07:30 |
| linuxgirl1 | whatever, I'd hoped there'd be discussion of positive ideas for support of Linux values, not saying how much Linux needs MS ... Github was only sold last year, and Linux did fine for decades before that. | Dec 16 07:30 |
| linuxgirl1 | I'm off, as didn't come in to talk about dependency on MS | Dec 16 07:31 |
| oiaohm | Really no Linux has not been fine. | Dec 16 07:31 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: you were never good at gnu linux advocacy | Dec 16 07:33 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: I am more a practical person. | Dec 16 07:35 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel kunit and kselftest are running them selves into the nightmare is produce more data than they have to tools to process. Since Microsoft depends on the Linux kernel so much they are in fact looking at open sourcing the tools they used with windows. | Dec 16 07:36 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft is not always the enemy when it comes to Linux. At times Microsoft need of Linux align with what everyone else needs. | Dec 16 07:36 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: basically its not like how it was. Recent years Microsoft interactions with Linux have got way more complex. | Dec 16 07:37 |
| oiaohm | At times they are the enemy at other times they are putting up large volumes of resources to support Linux because its in their best interest. | Dec 16 07:38 |
| oiaohm | Really is rare to see any software developed with enough resources to make the highest quality software. | Dec 16 07:40 |
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| Hail_Spacecake | does anyone here have any ideas about how to get a burner phone number for telegram use? | Dec 16 09:41 |
| Hail_Spacecake | I've tried the burner phone number sites you can google easily and haven't found one that I can successfully use to sign up for telegram | Dec 16 09:42 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: the kernel? | Dec 16 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Hail_Spacecake: sounds like the wrong approach | Dec 16 10:00 |
| schestowitz | there are things more secure than telegram | Dec 16 10:00 |
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| schestowitz | and also things like tor for anonymity | Dec 16 10:01 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: yes the kernel It was in the Linux Plumbers Conference this year 2019 in mini confs over testing.\ | Dec 16 10:11 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: I do find it kind of scary concept that Microsoft is working with the Linux kernel developers on quality control. | Dec 16 10:12 |
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| XRevan86 | https://meduza.io/en/news/2019/12/16/rambler-sues-twitch-for-almost-3-billion-dollars-over-pirated-broadcasts-of-english-premier-league-soccer | Dec 16 13:06 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLE | Dec 16 13:06 | |
| XRevan86 | Not particularly interesting, but it shows that Rambler is quite active as a troll these days. | Dec 16 13:09 |
| XRevan86 | Russian SCO? | Dec 16 13:09 |
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| rianne_ | top | Dec 16 14:26 |
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| schestowitz | XRevan86: thanks, eventually I get that from the RSS feed | Dec 16 14:29 |
| schestowitz | useful site | Dec 16 14:29 |
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| XRevan86 | schestowitz: :) | Dec 16 14:55 |
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| scientes | geeze | Dec 16 16:49 |
| scientes | This NGINX thing stinks | Dec 16 16:50 |
| scientes | I know this was being talked about in here a few days ago, but only now I connected the dots | Dec 16 16:50 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: hi | Dec 16 16:50 |
| scientes | cause the police can't win here | Dec 16 16:50 |
| scientes | there is no way in hell YouTUbe will stop using nginx | Dec 16 16:51 |
| scientes | including the code written by Sysoev | Dec 16 16:51 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: The catch is that sliedaki always win. | Dec 16 16:55 |
| scientes | but what is their game plan? | Dec 16 16:56 |
| XRevan86 | It's interesting to see how they're going to back off here | Dec 16 16:56 |
| scientes | exactly | Dec 16 16:56 |
| scientes | nginx is way to popular and commodity for them to control | Dec 16 16:56 |
| scientes | and people will ignore them | Dec 16 16:56 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It seems that the initial plan was to troll F5 for money. | Dec 16 16:56 |
| scientes | you mean NGINX's parent company in the US? | Dec 16 16:57 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: yes | Dec 16 16:57 |
| XRevan86 | To scare them a bit and then "settle" | Dec 16 16:57 |
| scientes | considering how much politics there are between Russia and the US that seems pretty petty and stupid | Dec 16 16:57 |
| XRevan86 | That scenario makes the most sense to me. | Dec 16 16:57 |
| scientes | but in some ways this neoliberal system does allow that type of thing | Dec 16 16:57 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Rambler isn't doing all that well. | Dec 16 16:58 |
| scientes | the question is whether nginx is big enough to have the rules not apply to it | Dec 16 16:58 |
| scientes | XRevan86, yeah, but the moscow police were stupid to get incolved | Dec 16 16:58 |
| XRevan86 | It was sold to Sberbank, and a lot of people think that they promised more than they have. | Dec 16 16:58 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: An oligarch is involved (Mamut) | Dec 16 16:58 |
| scientes | police forces are political bodies and they know it | Dec 16 16:58 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: political buddies | Dec 16 16:59 |
| scientes | ahhhh, that would explain things | Dec 16 16:59 |
| scientes | like the raids against ThePirateBay | Dec 16 16:59 |
| XRevan86 | Connections rule. They rule everywhere, but in Russia it's to the sky | Dec 16 16:59 |
| scientes | (which caused a huge backlash in Sweden, including a MP for EU parliament) | Dec 16 16:59 |
| XRevan86 | And in a system of near-zero responsibility these things happen all the time. | Dec 16 17:00 |
| scientes | I have come to the impression China works the same way | Dec 16 17:00 |
| scientes | and they do not even have the pretense of working any other way | Dec 16 17:01 |
| scientes | and the more you learn about what some of those powerful CCP leaders have done....... | Dec 16 17:01 |
| XRevan86 | No pretense here either. | Dec 16 17:01 |
| XRevan86 | Well, maybe a thin layer of pretense | Dec 16 17:02 |
| scientes | harvesting human organs? | Dec 16 17:02 |
| XRevan86 | But there's a common Russian saying "все всё понимают" (everyone knows the drill) | Dec 16 17:02 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Well, at least not that (not to my knowledge) | Dec 16 17:03 |
| scientes | very unlikely in Russia due to economics alone | Dec 16 17:04 |
| scientes | extremely | Dec 16 17:04 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: But knowing the sheer scale of police torture, I don't think it's not really a thing for human life value reasons | Dec 16 17:05 |
| XRevan86 | How does one translate "посадка на бутылку" into English? | Dec 16 17:05 |
| XRevan86 | Is that a known concept? %) | Dec 16 17:05 |
| XRevan86 | it's freakishly well-known here | Dec 16 17:06 |
| XRevan86 | Why should a normie know of torture methods like that? | Dec 16 17:06 |
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| XRevan86 | bottle seating? bottle planting? | Dec 16 17:07 |
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| Hail_Spacecake | schestowitz: the people I want to talk to use telegram | Dec 16 18:43 |
| Hail_Spacecake | in fact the first thing I will suggest once I get on is that they stop using a thing that requires a phone number to talk to them | Dec 16 18:43 |
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| schestowitz | Hail_Spacecake: I see... | Dec 16 19:29 |
| schestowitz | well, if they cannot accommodate you, say you need to speak in person or not at all | Dec 16 19:30 |
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| XRevan86 | https://meduza.io/en/news/2019/12/16/rambler-asks-police-to-drop-criminal-case-against-nginx-says-it-will-sue-in-civil-court-instead | Dec 16 20:17 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLE | Dec 16 20:17 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux: An OS Capable of Effectively Meeting the US Government’s Security Needs Heading into 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131799 [https://pleroma.site/objects/09a9c239-cf2a-4003-9fb8-ec191a60f5c3] | Dec 16 20:31 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Collabora Added H.264 and VP8 Decoding for Some Chromebooks in Linux Kernel 5.4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131796 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9442ba6e-8b36-4608-8d6b-001a8ad2e9a9] | Dec 16 20:38 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stable kernels 5.4.3, 5.3.16, and 4.19.89 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131800 [https://pleroma.site/objects/489c4b2b-7226-46da-9e67-39a9000e2a25] | Dec 16 20:39 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Hey, Ubuntu? You Need a Better Image Viewer… http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131801 [https://pleroma.site/objects/41479466-0c99-46f1-9fb7-e0b9625163da] | Dec 16 20:41 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: AMD Radeon RX 5500 XT 8GB Linux Gaming Performance http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131802 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2de1b97b-342f-4c38-8fe2-105f32b57aa5] | Dec 16 20:42 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LibreOffice Writer: The User Interface http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131798 [https://pleroma.site/objects/14c3a112-a4f9-4f09-8f22-05aa33390f6a] | Dec 16 20:45 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Canonical Wants the Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Server Installer to Be Faster, Comfortable http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131797 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d19c3917-fbb8-431a-a444-895c9f1bf0e8] | Dec 16 20:47 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131803 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4f112104-e9ad-4c21-b59c-8e87bd17b640] | Dec 16 20:48 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME Shell Arc Menu v38 Adds Budgie http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131760#comment-22848 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9b72b0de-2dea-49cc-bdb9-dad125a43e3d] | Dec 16 20:54 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131805 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ca9b7e63-7de3-4fd9-acf4-18f704077f3a] | Dec 16 21:04 | |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/10/17/868fa9051600d199.png | Dec 16 21:10 |
| -->factor (~factor@47-217-151-184.msk1cmtc01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #techrights | Dec 16 21:13 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts: ArcoLinux 19.12.15, Linux Headlines and KDE 5.17 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/131806 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3c1e747a-435c-4413-8434-c097e6d9abed] | Dec 16 21:19 | |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/10/29/c1922290cfadf69b.jpg | Dec 16 21:24 |
| ---ChanServ gives channel operator status to MinceR | Dec 16 21:24 | |
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| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/15/d275550fd5b005b1.jpg | Dec 16 21:47 |
| <--poet has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | Dec 16 22:06 | |
| MinceR | (audio:important) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/10/28/b88ee8fcffc95ec6.mp4 | Dec 16 22:11 |
| danielp3344 | <MinceR "https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12"> lol | Dec 16 22:14 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 403 @ https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/ ) | Dec 16 22:14 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'd post that to Facebook except mom cut part of her thumb off peeling a potato a few months ago | Dec 16 22:27 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And I'm trying to be more sensitive in light of recent events involving the in laws. | Dec 16 22:27 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I don't think it's just a Microsoft taking over an imposing codes of conduct on people in open source. | Dec 16 22:28 |
| MinceR | lol | Dec 16 22:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I think it's just that people don't have anything better to do than being offended all of the time over everything these days. | Dec 16 22:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's getting to be such a huge problem that without a code of conduct you have to stop the bus every time someone has an issue. | Dec 16 22:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | No actual work gets done because people are bickering over whether you overlooked something or if it was a microaggression. | Dec 16 22:30 |
| MinceR | some people can't get actual work done | Dec 16 22:30 |
| MinceR | preventing others from doing so helps distract from that | Dec 16 22:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Libreboot (pointless since nobody replaces their boot firmware except bored nerds) scuffle a while back just highlights this problem. | Dec 16 22:32 |
| danielp3344 | oi | Dec 16 22:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | People can't just be fired because they were an idiot or because their work sucked. | Dec 16 22:32 |
| danielp3344 | I have 3 laptops with libreboot | Dec 16 22:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It has to be because they were transgender, even though they were transgender when they were hired. | Dec 16 22:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's funny how that is. | Dec 16 22:32 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: IIRC, Leah Rowe said that she was wrong. | Dec 16 22:34 |
| XRevan86 | That didn't save Libreboot though. | Dec 16 22:34 |
| XRevan86 | My personal opinion is that this isn't as unrealistic as Replicant, but closer to it than desired. | Dec 16 22:36 |
| XRevan86 | Having (self-installed) coreboot is already a darn accomplishment. | Dec 16 22:37 |
| danielp3344 | XRevan86: it's not that bad | Dec 16 22:37 |
| danielp3344 | replicant is just ridiculous | Dec 16 22:37 |
| XRevan86 | And removing "blobs", i.e. processor microcode is kind of self-defeating anyway. | Dec 16 22:40 |
| XRevan86 | And even then one can opt-out on coreboot too. | Dec 16 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | XRevan86: for ucode yeah | Dec 16 22:41 |
| MinceR | how painful and risky is it to install libreboot or coreboot on a ThinkPad X200s? | Dec 16 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | But I use mostly ARM | Dec 16 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | MinceR: risky not at all, it's fairly painful. | Dec 16 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | I had an old picture somewhere of flashing my t400 | Dec 16 22:41 |
| danielp3344 | You have to pretty much do a complete teardown to get to it. | Dec 16 22:42 |
| MinceR | :( | Dec 16 22:42 |
| XRevan86 | https://coreboot.org/Board:lenovo/x200#X200S_and_X200_Tablet "you will need to solder some (very thin) wires to a pin header" | Dec 16 22:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-coreboot.org | Board:lenovo/x200 - coreboot | Dec 16 22:47 | |
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| XRevan86 | Nothing like this cheat seems to be possible: https://github.com/gch1p/thinkpad-bios-software-flashing-guide | Dec 16 22:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - gch1p/thinkpad-bios-software-flashing-guide: flashing coreboot on ivybridge thinkpads without external programmer | Dec 16 22:48 | |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: Lot of libreboot ends up self defeating as well. We don't ship firmware blob so now the system falled back on even more out of date burnt into rom solution or hardware don't work. | Dec 16 22:49 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: yes | Dec 16 22:49 |
| oiaohm | I am more looking for hardware built from the ground up as low blob as possible. | Dec 16 22:50 |
| XRevan86 | The way I see it Libreboot offers no practical (i.e. of any effect) advantages over coreboot. | Dec 16 22:51 |
| XRevan86 | The only thing is that if you run Libreboot, you by design have crap like Intel ME disabled, so if you say "I run Libreboot" that's implied. | Dec 16 22:51 |
| XRevan86 | With coreboot batteries are sold separately | Dec 16 22:51 |
| oiaohm | I still remember when libreboot developers got upset when Intel boards starts shutdown after 30 mins if you had no updated the ME firmware and left it running on rom. | Dec 16 22:52 |
| -->chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc45:2500:5d12:4680:33b0:47e7) has joined #techrights | Dec 16 22:52 | |
| oiaohm | pinephone seams to be coming along fairly well. | Dec 16 22:54 |
| MinceR | i'd be upset too | Dec 16 22:55 |
| danielp3344 | I pre ordered | Dec 16 22:55 |
| MinceR | forcing their hardware backdoor on users that way is bullshit | Dec 16 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: By "Intel ME disabled" I mean stuff like me_cleaner | Dec 16 22:55 |
| danielp3344 | 'disabled' | Dec 16 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | "it is still possible to modify its firmware up to a point where Intel ME is active only during the boot process, effectively disabling it during the normal operation" | Dec 16 22:56 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: intell was providng how to strip down to disabled image to upload into ME before adding the 30 min time out. they added that just in case there was some coding bug in the default rom so you should replace it with newer. | Dec 16 22:59 |
| MinceR | do they believe them? | Dec 16 22:59 |
| MinceR | s/they/you/ | Dec 16 22:59 |
| MinceR | intel has zero credibility at this point | Dec 16 23:00 |
| oiaohm | I would not say 100 percent. That that reason for the 30 min timeout is 100 percent valid. | Dec 16 23:00 |
| MinceR | it's a rather transparent excuse | Dec 16 23:00 |
| oiaohm | If they were absolutely serous about security it would be 1 min time out. | Dec 16 23:00 |
| MinceR | if they were at all serious about security, they wouldn't have cut corners on speculative execution | Dec 16 23:01 |
| oiaohm | Ie enough rom to get the firmware up then replace with current version that hopefully fixed before networking is activated. | Dec 16 23:01 |
| MinceR | if they were at all serious about security, they wouldn't have put their name on microshit drones' UEFI implementation | Dec 16 23:01 |
| MinceR | if they were at all serious about security, they wouldn't have gotten married to microsloth | Dec 16 23:02 |
| MinceR | also, if they were at all serious about security, they'd focus on hardware-based protection of the firmware instead of this baroque cryptographic bullshit | Dec 16 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Really if intel was absolutely serous about security there is a long long list of things they would have done. | Dec 16 23:06 |
| MinceR | like trying to save a few pennies on flash so having certain ranges protected against writing, and then naturally fucking that up | Dec 16 23:07 |
| MinceR | or trying to save a few pennies on a jumper and instead claiming that intel boot guard and Restricted Boot are security features | Dec 16 23:07 |
| MinceR | (they're not -- they're anti-competition features) | Dec 16 23:07 |
| oiaohm | There is stupid logic there. | Dec 16 23:08 |
| oiaohm | I do mean stupid logic. | Dec 16 23:08 |
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| oiaohm | Business ask intel to make updating firmware as safe, simple and not requiring staff at machine todo. | Dec 16 23:08 |
| oiaohm | Kind of impossible request right. | Dec 16 23:08 |
| MinceR | there's greed (both for money and for power), unscrupulousness and incompetence there | Dec 16 23:09 |
| MinceR | right | Dec 16 23:09 |
| oiaohm | its not just intel alone that causes this stupidity. | Dec 16 23:09 |
| MinceR | also, if their staff is so retarded, maybe don't have them update firmware | Dec 16 23:09 |
| MinceR | better yet, don't have them use a computer | Dec 16 23:09 |
| MinceR | yeah, they're in cahoots with microsuck | Dec 16 23:09 |
| oiaohm | Lot of business don't trust their staff not to steal there business secrets either. | Dec 16 23:09 |
| oiaohm | Once you add all this stupidity up you end up with UEFI. | Dec 16 23:10 |
| MinceR | then don't store them on equipment physically accessed by staff | Dec 16 23:10 |
| oiaohm | Intel stupidity has not happened in a vaccumm. | Dec 16 23:10 |
| MinceR | yeah, it happened in an echo chamber which also includes microshit and crApple | Dec 16 23:11 |
| MinceR | but no security experts | Dec 16 23:11 |
| oiaohm | Its like the speculative execution problems. Like back in the days businesses asked Intel and AMD for performance no matter the cost. And that is exactly what we got. | Dec 16 23:11 |
| oiaohm | The cost of not doing speculative execution safely is higher performance. | Dec 16 23:12 |
| MinceR | that's what you get when you let simpletons with lots of money control the market | Dec 16 23:12 |
| oiaohm | With massive big security holes. | Dec 16 23:12 |
| MinceR | AMD didn't cut as many corners though | Dec 16 23:12 |
| oiaohm | AMD did cut some corners | Dec 16 23:12 |
| oiaohm | AMD was not quite as willing to push into insane. | Dec 16 23:12 |
| oiaohm | For performance. | Dec 16 23:12 |
| MinceR | hypePhones and locked-down smartphones are another thing you get when you let simpletons with lots of money control the market | Dec 16 23:12 |
| MinceR | and the death of computing | Dec 16 23:13 |
| oiaohm | The fact AMD and Intel had speculative execution faults that sould have been in face to anyone doing a security audit of design says that were both obeying the requests of their customers. | Dec 16 23:13 |
| oiaohm | and their customers back then when they started did not have a view of the world as internet connected as it is now. | Dec 16 23:14 |
| MinceR | or trying to outdo the other in performance, whatever it costed | Dec 16 23:14 |
| oiaohm | Try to name a customer who would pay top dollar for a secure chip. | Dec 16 23:14 |
| oiaohm | In the last 2 decade. | Dec 16 23:14 |
| XRevan86 | Or rather JavaScript connected | Dec 16 23:14 |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/12/15/c00be7d0cd1739db.jpg | Dec 16 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Like it or not customers asked for performance no matter the cost and got exactly what they asked for. | Dec 16 23:15 |
| MinceR | dunno, most people seem to settle for a thin illusion of security | Dec 16 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Now we have customers asking for all the crap in UEFI. | Dec 16 23:15 |
| MinceR | like suits who buy every piece of shit from microsloth and confuse inconveniencing their workers with securing their networks | Dec 16 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Instead of simple hardware things that are more secure long term. | Dec 16 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Like I have not worked out why BMC have to be soldered on to server motherboards. TPM can be removable why cannot BMC be removable. | Dec 16 23:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Okay, I just replaced the battery in my laptop. | Dec 16 23:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It came up says 79% ad 27 minutes until full | Dec 16 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Remote control of computers would be better as some form of addon bit that you could just physically pull out if you don't need it. | Dec 16 23:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Okay, 80%. | Dec 16 23:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We're definitely going up. :) | Dec 16 23:17 |
| MinceR | but that might cost a hundredth of a cent extra | Dec 16 23:17 |
| MinceR | who can afford that in an enterprise that can afford to waste money in microsloth software licenses? | Dec 16 23:18 |
| MinceR | s/in m/on m/ | Dec 16 23:18 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: the cost is about 15 cents more per machine. | Dec 16 23:18 |
| MinceR | the horror! | Dec 16 23:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The clock was wrong for a moment. | Dec 16 23:18 |
| MinceR | 15 cents more for a machine that has a chance of being actually secure | Dec 16 23:19 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It thought it was November 16th at 4 AM. | Dec 16 23:19 |
| oiaohm | That is to have removable BMC and jumper protection for the flash and you could make the flash only changable by the BMC. | Dec 16 23:19 |
| MinceR | i'd rather not | Dec 16 23:19 |
| oiaohm | Basically giving 90% of what the enterprises want out of UEFI in with a method that works. | Dec 16 23:19 |
| MinceR | IPMI is cancer | Dec 16 23:19 |
| oiaohm | and can be secured. | Dec 16 23:20 |
| MinceR | by removing it | Dec 16 23:20 |
| oiaohm | Add on card bmc could also have its own private network port going to unique management only network. | Dec 16 23:21 |
| oiaohm | So way more secure. | Dec 16 23:21 |
| oiaohm | If you are going to remote manage machines right down to core you really don't want internet with direct access to it. | Dec 16 23:22 |
| MinceR | so you add a second computer in there so you can update firmware in the first | Dec 16 23:22 |
| MinceR | how do you update the firmware in the bmc? | Dec 16 23:22 |
| MinceR | i think we could add a third computer in there, with its own network interface | Dec 16 23:23 |
| MinceR | after all, computers and network interfaces are so much cheaper than a jumper | Dec 16 23:23 |
| oiaohm | Notice private network bit. bmc controller can contain network interface. | Dec 16 23:23 |
| MinceR | or a dip switch | Dec 16 23:23 |
| oiaohm | BMC updates from management network and it updates the computer firmware for the section that running internet connected. | Dec 16 23:24 |
| MinceR | do we end up with an infinite chain of computers? | Dec 16 23:24 |
| MinceR | or perhaps an ouroboros of insecurity? | Dec 16 23:24 |
| oiaohm | and could be infected from internet. | Dec 16 23:24 |
| oiaohm | This is onion layering security. | Dec 16 23:24 |
| MinceR | no, that is baroque insecurity | Dec 16 23:24 |
| oiaohm | openbmc exists. | Dec 16 23:24 |
| oiaohm | bmc module could be a openbmc one. | Dec 16 23:25 |
| MinceR | especially since they forgot to tell anyone that IPMI is practically a mess of security holes and so you should never connect the management interface to any public network | Dec 16 23:25 |
| MinceR | naturally, the extra computer(s?) also use extra power | Dec 16 23:25 |
| MinceR | while a jumper or dip switch would use no power at all | Dec 16 23:25 |
| oiaohm | Lot of current bmc on motherboard have it using the same network ports as everything else. | Dec 16 23:25 |
| oiaohm | So toast in current configuration in a big way. | Dec 16 23:26 |
| MinceR | so this baroque monstrosity of insecurity is also contributing to humanity's self-extermination | Dec 16 23:26 |
| MinceR | i'm pretty sure the people who came up with this insane shit aren't engineers | Dec 16 23:26 |
| oiaohm | BMC for remote management in a server farm does have it place so you are not having to deal with 120 DB fan noise. | Dec 16 23:26 |
| MinceR | i can do that without BMC | Dec 16 23:27 |
| MinceR | it's called SSH. | Dec 16 23:27 |
| oiaohm | BMC is so you can access the machine before OS has booted. | Dec 16 23:27 |
| MinceR | why would i need to do that? | Dec 16 23:27 |
| oiaohm | and do diagnostics as if you are sitting at the machine physical. | Dec 16 23:27 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes you need to change firmware settings like clock down cpu/ram so systems boot. | Dec 16 23:28 |
| MinceR | or just have it set up correctly and don't fuck with it | Dec 16 23:28 |
| oiaohm | due to where they are in the server farm not having enough cooling. | Dec 16 23:28 |
| oiaohm | That can happen as stuff is added. | Dec 16 23:28 |
| MinceR | you could add cooling | Dec 16 23:28 |
| MinceR | instead of frying your hardware | Dec 16 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Your normal pc does not really need a BMC plugged in. | Dec 16 23:29 |
| MinceR | indeed | Dec 16 23:29 |
| oiaohm | In 90+% or cases | Dec 16 23:29 |
| MinceR | it might need to have the ability to update firmware, though | Dec 16 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Or anything equal to a BMC like the AMT crap. | Dec 16 23:29 |
| MinceR | with physical access | Dec 16 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Servers in server farms there is a reason for BMC stuff. | Dec 16 23:30 |
| MinceR | many computers aren't, though | Dec 16 23:30 |
| MinceR | so it would be a good idea to have a sane method of updating firmware | Dec 16 23:30 |
| oiaohm | You really don't want to be in server farms at times when you don't have to be. Like waiting for a memory test in a room where if the fire system triggers you are dead. | Dec 16 23:31 |
| MinceR | and once that's there, you might as well have them on servers too | Dec 16 23:31 |
| MinceR | also, if it's so difficult to develop remote management capability for them, maybe it could be added as a separate module developed by someone who cares | Dec 16 23:31 |
| oiaohm | removable and changeable BMC> | Dec 16 23:32 |
| MinceR | might start with something as simple as having the firmware setup work on a serial port, then plug that into another server | Dec 16 23:32 |
| oiaohm | So if someone does not make decent BMC you don't have to replace complete server to fix it. | Dec 16 23:32 |
| MinceR | and if someone whines that they can't work on serial terminal, kick them out and have them do work they do have the capacity for | Dec 16 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Some of the early BMC did put the bios over serial. | Dec 16 23:33 |
| oiaohm | Hey it would be warpped to make all BMC networking firewire. | Dec 16 23:33 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 16 23:33 |
| oiaohm | It would avoid the opps I plugged it into the wrong thing. | Dec 16 23:34 |
| MinceR | that's what she said. | Dec 16 23:34 |
| oiaohm | Lot of firewire cards ware quite effective bmc due to bad security design. | Dec 16 23:34 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 16 23:35 |
| oiaohm | Allowing you to enter by fireware and read/write what ever memory you liked. | Dec 16 23:35 |
| MinceR | mobile phone baseband systems also tend to have this "feature" :> | Dec 16 23:35 |
| oiaohm | It a cost saving of stupid. | Dec 16 23:36 |
| oiaohm | hey we but the baseband system into the soc. hey we don't need to put on unique ram chips for baseband any more lets use what we have for the main os. | Dec 16 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Yes that is exactly how it played out by qualcomm internal memos at least. | Dec 16 23:37 |
| MinceR | even if it used separate memory, they usually communicate via DMA | Dec 16 23:38 |
| MinceR | because what could possibly go wrong | Dec 16 23:38 |
| oiaohm | No as stupid as it sounds more baseband chips are still using serail in the form of USB. | Dec 16 23:39 |
| oiaohm | For communication. | Dec 16 23:39 |
| MinceR | good | Dec 16 23:39 |
| oiaohm | DMA crap is when they had cut out having internal ram. | Dec 16 23:39 |
| oiaohm | So baseband controllers with DMA usage that lack internal ram and baseband controllers without DMA usage that have ram require the same control signals. | Dec 16 23:40 |
| MinceR | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK9_h5Iku64 | Dec 16 23:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Circle World - YouTube | Dec 16 23:40 | |
| oiaohm | So the DMA usage is not communication. | Dec 16 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Its cost saving stupidity. | Dec 16 23:40 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: baseband stuff is not like the winmodem stuff where they have really saved that much in silicon either. Some cases the DMA bit consumes more silicon space than if they had put ram in for the baseband in the first place. | Dec 16 23:45 |
| MinceR | :> | Dec 16 23:45 |
| MinceR | https://files.catbox.moe/o3ya9f.jpg | Dec 16 23:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | These Lithium Ion batteries have gotten pretty good. Even most of them from China hold up as well as the ones that say lenovo or whatever. | Dec 16 23:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Some don't. | Dec 16 23:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Lenovo one I took out said made in China. | Dec 16 23:51 |
| XRevan86 | A completely unrelated fun fact: Lenovo's HQ are in Beijing | Dec 16 23:53 |
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