●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Sunday, December 20, 2020 ●●

● Dec 20
[00:00]	schestowitz	you hit some of the key points
[00:00]	schestowitz	I will be finished shortly
[00:00]	schestowitz	time to generated IRC logs, it's midnight
[00:02]	schestowitz	" I use Mac daily and Slackware Linux on occasion."
[00:02]	schestowitz	https://www.geekwire.com/2020/shadrach-white/
[00:02]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Rooted in Tacoma, cloudPWRs Shadrach White delivers tech solutions for governments everywhere - GeekWire
[00:04]	DaemonFC[m]	https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Pre-Installed-Lenovo-Software-and-Applications/I-uninstalled-vantage-Is-this-a-bad-idea/m-p/4530162
[00:04]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-forums.lenovo.com | I uninstalled vantage. Is this a bad idea?-English Community
[00:05]	DaemonFC[m]	About all this actually seemed to do on my laptop is spawn a million processes that collectively used a couple hundred MB of RAM.
[00:05]	DaemonFC[m]	So, gone...
[00:06]	DaemonFC[m]	For some reason, every OEM thinks very highly of their bloatware, which doesn't actually do a hell of a lot ofor you.
[00:07]	DaemonFC[m]	https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/privesc-in-lenovo-vantage-two-minutes-later/
[00:07]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.pentestpartners.com | PrivEsc in Lenovo Vantage. Two minutes later | Pen Test Partners
[00:07]	DaemonFC[m]	And, of course, the occasional security catastrophe. 
[00:12]	schestowitz	whose hardware had that anti-ssl malware preloaded?
[00:16]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: would you want to read the final article/draft?
[00:22]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah.
[00:22]	DaemonFC[m]	Sorry, was tending to dinner.
[00:28]	schestowitz	it'll be lots of typos
[00:28]	schestowitz	I will publish for review
[00:28]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: maybe you'll find typos in your own text, too
[00:29]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: http://techrights.org/2020/12/19/security-theatre/
[00:29]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Security Theatre and Microsoft-Funded Media Frenzy That Stigmatises Linux | Techrights
[00:29]	schestowitz	I've not proofread it yet
[00:30]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: The "security" of app stores, which somehow end up hosting malware constantly.
[00:31]	schestowitz	yeah, it's a hard problem
[00:31]	schestowitz	they don't take source code but binary blobs
[00:31]	DaemonFC[m]	Sometimes several hundred pieces of it get removed at once after allegedly been "hand picked" and "inspected" by Google, Apple, Microsoft, or whoever.
[00:31]	DaemonFC[m]	*allegedly having been
[00:32]	schestowitz	maybe based on detected behaviour
[00:32]	schestowitz	not the code
[00:32]	DaemonFC[m]	They don't actually look at what the hell they're signing or putting in their stores.
[00:32]	schestowitz	like accessing what they ought not
[00:32]	schestowitz	I'll put "Linux" in quotes
[00:32]	schestowitz	they call everything that
[00:32]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: Epic Games slipped in that payment system past Apple's review process in much the same way Solarwinds got past everybody.
[00:32]	DaemonFC[m]	In that case, it was not malicious. Just dormant code that Apple didn't notice.
[00:33]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: are you reading it?
[00:33]	schestowitz	Trying to clean it asap
[00:33]	schestowitz	to avoid typos beind visible
[00:33]	DaemonFC[m]	But Apple can't guarantee that there is no dormant code that's not ready to activate and steal data from their users all at once.
[00:34]	DaemonFC[m]	"Like DRM schemes, its only a matter of time before its rendered obsolete."
[00:34]	DaemonFC[m]	No mistakes, just a comment.
[00:34]	DaemonFC[m]	Nothing protected by Widevine, FairPlay, or PlayReady ever delays the video surfacing on bittorrent sites.
[00:34]	schestowitz	will add
[00:34]	DaemonFC[m]	Just as games get cracked and packaged more efficiently right away.
[00:35]	DaemonFC[m]	"How can we securely bank online using encryption that has back doors in it?"
[00:36]	DaemonFC[m]	The bank is a backdoor. They are legally required to report suspicious transactions and large amounts of cash activity to the federal government immediately.
[00:37]	DaemonFC[m]	Bitcoin isn't valuable because it's a thing. It's valuable because it's a payment method that the banks can't block from going through. Consider that Pornhub wasn't actively promoting illegal content knowingly, but got ambushed by banks blocking off their payment after they found a handful of videos among 14 million or so legal ones.
[00:37]	DaemonFC[m]	The result is that Pornhub went on the extreme defense, deleting most videos and forcing everyone to prove their innocence. 
[00:38]	DaemonFC[m]	But had they accepted bitcoin, nobody could block that, and so outright illegal activity is using bitcoin. And Maricel has a ton of Bitcoin, and who knows why that is?
[00:38]	DaemonFC[m]	I can't think of a good reason not to just have USD in a bank account unless she's up to some really bad shit.
[00:39]	DaemonFC[m]	"in tact"
[00:39]	DaemonFC[m]	Should be intact.
[00:40]	DaemonFC[m]	"One reader of our"
[00:40]	DaemonFC[m]	ours
[00:42]	schestowitz	yup
[00:42]	schestowitz	Maricel or Mark? Bitcoin?
[00:42]	schestowitz	I doubt the former would know how to use it
[00:43]	DaemonFC[m]	"often behind portrayed"
[00:43]	DaemonFC[m]	being
[00:43]	schestowitz	thanks, yes, I caught that too
[00:43]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: They all have crypto wallets.
[00:44]	DaemonFC[m]	She had even made one under Mandy's name and continued to use it for a while until I became aware of it and scrambled his password.
[00:45]	DaemonFC[m]	She also committed fraud to sign him up for a credit card in 2018, and as such, he already had an "account" with her email address attached to it on Capital One when we went to sign him up for a real one that he approved of.
[00:46]	DaemonFC[m]	There really is no telling what Maricel is up to. The parts that I know about are bad enough and involve fraud against her relatives and the government.
[00:46]	schestowitz	sounds like it..
[00:46]	schestowitz	stay away
[00:46]	schestowitz	she could get her brother implicated even without his knowledge
[00:47]	DaemonFC[m]	I did what I could do.
[00:47]	DaemonFC[m]	I put fraud alerts on his credit reports.
[00:47]	schestowitz	even if he denies being aware of it, the burden of proof would be on him to show it
[00:47]	schestowitz	and in case of doubt, his situation is already precarious regardless
[00:49]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, I've thought about that.
[00:52]	schestowitz	worse:
[00:52]	schestowitz	the more I think about it
[00:52]	schestowitz	she can use him as scapegoat
[00:52]	schestowitz	for leverage/blackmail
[00:52]	DaemonFC[m]	I guarantee you she would if she got caught.
[00:53]	schestowitz	it's an 'insurance' policy
[00:53]	schestowitz	in case they get caught
[00:53]	schestowitz	and guess who gets deported
[00:53]	schestowitz	the poor one
[00:53]	schestowitz	not the rich one
[00:53]	schestowitz	it's easier and cheaper to prosecute
[00:53]	schestowitz	and less of a status to defend
[00:53]	schestowitz	so the state finds that more convenient, as the IRS certainly does (to drive up "productivity" numbers)
[00:55]	DaemonFC[m]	They're not rich.
[00:55]	DaemonFC[m]	They're in debt trying to pretend at being rich.
[00:55]	schestowitz	yes, that's US def of rich
[00:55]	schestowitz	like Trump
[00:55]	DaemonFC[m]	In reality, they're like an inch away from losing everything.
[00:55]	schestowitz	I live like I'm rich, hence I'm rich
[00:55]	schestowitz	"I'm not rich, but I act like one in real life"
[00:56]	schestowitz	it's based on borrowings from the future
[00:56]	DaemonFC[m]	Maricel said I have no idea of what "the real life" is like.
[00:56]	DaemonFC[m]	I laughed.
[00:56]	schestowitz	like banks did when loaning for interest payments
[00:56]	DaemonFC[m]	She's on that treadmill Richard Stallman was talking about.
[00:56]	schestowitz	people wrongly assume that as borrowers they're backed by physical cash at the back of the reception
[00:57]	DaemonFC[m]	She can't be happy sitting on the couch reading a book, going to the supermarket on double coupon day and driving a car that makes weird noises sometimes but is paid for.
[00:57]	DaemonFC[m]	So the result is some major lawsuits every now and then.
[00:57]	DaemonFC[m]	Maybe a Chapter 13 bankruptcy eventually.
[00:57]	schestowitz	or.... actual positive balance sheet on the bank's <what's that accounting term?>
[00:57]	DaemonFC[m]	In the black.
[00:57]	schestowitz	no
[00:58]	schestowitz	the old machine term
[00:58]	schestowitz	taller?
[00:58]	schestowitz	bakrolling term
[00:58]	schestowitz	it evades me... tip of the tongue
[00:58]	schestowitz	anyway, depends on language, doesn't matter much
[00:58]	schestowitz	anyway, banks overstretch
[00:58]	DaemonFC[m]	Net worth?
[00:58]	DaemonFC[m]	They have negative net worth.
[00:58]	schestowitz	many assumptions re input and output of money
[00:59]	DaemonFC[m]	More debt than assets.
[00:59]	schestowitz	inflow, outflow
[00:59]	DaemonFC[m]	All the assets depreciate so fast that the creditors wouldn't even want them back anymore.
[00:59]	schestowitz	I'm surprised we don't yet hear about banks collapsing
[00:59]	schestowitz	maybe they want to cash in on lots of foreclosures
[00:59]	schestowitz	mortgages are being frozen
[00:59]	schestowitz	they call it holiday
● Dec 20
[01:00]	schestowitz	but after holidays people go back to work and resume
[01:00]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, so are insurance coverages.
[01:00]	schestowitz	many jobs here aren't resuming
[01:00]	schestowitz	so the mortgage payments cannot just carry on later; utility bills are even worse... but the law prevents shutoffs
[01:00]	schestowitz	the whole social security system can collapse soon
[01:00]	schestowitz	it's on the brink already
[01:00]	schestowitz	we'll need some major reset
[01:01]	schestowitz	like UBI
[01:01]	schestowitz	not enough jobs
[01:01]	schestowitz	more so when services are shut
[01:01]	schestowitz	dining, bars, hotels, hospitality/travel
[01:01]	DaemonFC[m]	The utilities aren't even prohibited from shutoffs in Illinois right now.
[01:01]	DaemonFC[m]	Even though it's winter.
[01:01]	schestowitz	those jobs are gone for years to come and might not come back except in very limited capacity
[01:01]	DaemonFC[m]	The governor signed a law that essential utilities can't require a deposit.
[01:02]	DaemonFC[m]	Which saved me like $100 up front to get the electric on.
[01:02]	schestowitz	2,546 deaths so far today in USland
[01:02]	schestowitz	120 in IL
[01:02]	DaemonFC[m]	Yes, it's an emergency without end.
[01:02]	schestowitz	Pennsylvania 203
[01:03]	DaemonFC[m]	And then they tell us we're getting half the vaccine doses they said we would.
[01:03]	schestowitz	by March it'll be about a year
[01:03]	schestowitz	US excess death can be over half a million by then, easily 700,000+
[01:03]	DaemonFC[m]	By March, 600,000 Americans will be officially dead from this.
[01:03]	DaemonFC[m]	The end of March that is.
[01:03]	schestowitz	I spoke to my sister last night
[01:04]	schestowitz	she had returned from Dubai
[01:04]	DaemonFC[m]	I start counting from about March 23rd because that's when the lockdown started and they admitted we were in serious trouble.
[01:04]	schestowitz	and we joked about how these clinical trials ("vaccines") won't actually solve thsi
[01:04]	DaemonFC[m]	Trump saying things like "I don't need the numbers.".
[01:04]	schestowitz	the politicians give us false hope
[01:04]	DaemonFC[m]	"If you didn't test anyone there wouldn't be all these deaths."
[01:04]	schestowitz	we still havr the flu
[01:04]	schestowitz	though we have a vaccine fro it
[01:05]	schestowitz	and it's not as lethal
[01:05]	DaemonFC[m]	"If it wasn't for the ballots, I would've won!"
[01:05]	schestowitz	but the issue is not COVID
[01:05]	schestowitz	but a broken economy
[01:05]	schestowitz	they won't do a big long shutdown
[01:05]	schestowitz	because too many things will collapse
[01:06]	schestowitz	COVID won't be over until the number of cases is ZERO
[01:06]	schestowitz	which is unlikely to happen 
[01:06]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, they pretty much opened things back up in Illinois.
[01:06]	schestowitz	even if we have 1) EFFECTIVE vaccines and 2) most people ACCEPTED these
[01:06]	schestowitz	so it's here to stay basically
[01:06]	DaemonFC[m]	YOu can go to the mall if you want to right now.
[01:06]	schestowitz	we can only limit the damage a bit
[01:06]	DaemonFC[m]	That would be the mall that isn't paying their mortgage.
[01:07]	schestowitz	some shops already shut down here
[01:07]	DaemonFC[m]	With the tenants that demand rent reductions because the anchor stores are going bankrupt and traffic is down 50%.
[01:07]	schestowitz	they lost hope of turnaround
[01:07]	schestowitz	and the "vaccine" hopes are also debunked by results
[01:07]	schestowitz	we see no concrete improvements where they administer this
[01:07]	DaemonFC[m]	The only way the mall tenants survive is with lower rents that offset some of the sales drop.
[01:07]	schestowitz	then they come up with excuses about having to "wait" (how long for?)
[01:08]	DaemonFC[m]	Then the mall company doesn't pay the mortgage because they're buying JC Penney even though it's a zombie company that hasn't turned a profit in years, because without it, their tenants get automatic rent reductions.
[01:08]	schestowitz	when the malls' owners aren't paid (like movie theatres), banks will suffer
[01:08]	schestowitz	The FakeEconomy(TM) will  pretend all is well
[01:08]	schestowitz	never been better!
[01:09]	schestowitz	Wall Street IS "the economy"
[01:09]	schestowitz	[17:14] <tr_guest|24610> 2. Microsoft has been paying contractors the whole time: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2020/12/17/microsoft-covid-19-washington-state-support/
[01:09]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blogs.microsoft.com | Microsoft commits more than $110M in additional support for nonprofits, workers and schools in Washington state - Microsoft On the Issues
[01:09]	DaemonFC[m]	JC Penney went through the bankruptcy so that it could get rid of its particularly toxic debts and be more attractive for a takeover.
[01:09]	schestowitz	talk about Microsoft straw man
[01:09]	schestowitz	linking to their lobbying blog
[01:09]	schestowitz	so you know it was a well-prepared Microsoft spinner
[01:09]	schestowitz	copy-pasting spin, not even debunking what we said
[01:10]	schestowitz	Debenhams here may be shutting down
[01:10]	schestowitz	similar to  JC Penney 
[01:10]	DaemonFC[m]	The bankruptcy law makes sense in that if they couldn't then they'd liquidate and it would be a total loss.
[01:10]	schestowitz	maybe we don't have much time left (decade) before shops where you see and touch what you buy become extinct
[01:10]	DaemonFC[m]	But it makes no sense because after the mall's lender gets tired of this and forecloses, there won't be a JCP anyway.
[01:11]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: iBotta is selling restaurant gift cars with double the normal rebates.
[01:11]	schestowitz	In get 10-20 spam mails per day from Chna
[01:11]	schestowitz	factory owners in China
[01:11]	schestowitz	they're desperate also
[01:11]	DaemonFC[m]	And that's great except you can't go in and eat, so you could be left holding a card that's worthless after they file bankruptcy.
[01:11]	schestowitz	I suppose their info. lockdown in China prevents us knowing how bad things really are over there
[01:12]	schestowitz	many obsolete workers and machinery
[01:12]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: those cards always carry with them a risk
[01:12]	schestowitz	like banknotes that are associated with a lunatic economy
[01:13]	schestowitz	or notes that can be just canceled like in India
[01:13]	schestowitz	MODI
[01:13]	schestowitz	Homes as assets might be OK until there's war where you live
[01:13]	schestowitz	and you cannot take the home elsewhere
[01:14]	schestowitz	so the value dives and you're left with worthless junk. I have a friend with family in Iran that's affected by it. They owned homes and now it's worthless
[01:14]	schestowitz	also a relative who did student accomodation
[01:14]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, China throwing out American journalists for no particular reason and then claiming COVID was all under control and people in Wuhan throw maskless gatherings now.
[01:14]	schestowitz	before COVID made those unoccupied
[01:14]	schestowitz	so real estate is also NOT risk-free
[01:15]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: How stupid do they think we are?
[01:15]	schestowitz	Homes cannot move
[01:15]	schestowitz	unless they're portable homes, like SUVs
[01:15]	schestowitz	and even those are expensive to transport far
[01:16]	schestowitz	Mark Shuttleworth had to pay big tax on wealth transfer to his tax haven
[01:16]	DaemonFC[m]	https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/19/politics/trump-oval-office-meeting-special-counsel-martial-law/index.html
[01:16]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-edition.cnn.com | Heated Oval Office meeting included talk of special counsel, martial law as Trump advisers clash - CNNPolitics
[01:16]	DaemonFC[m]	"Marshall Law" -Trump
[01:16]	schestowitz	some just set up a fake charity, as he did, eventually...
[01:16]	schestowitz	all the rich people become 'charities'
[01:16]	schestowitz	for tax reasons
[01:16]	schestowitz	not just PR
[01:17]	schestowitz	tax evasion (crime) painted as "philanthropy"... it's a Thing(TM) now
[01:17]	schestowitz	"Marshall Law" after a crisis of one's own making
[01:18]	schestowitz	maybe next thing you know he'll pay alt-reich to torch the white house
[01:19]	DaemonFC[m]	https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/bud-kennedy/article247806885.html
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[01:30]	DaemonFC[m]	Disney+ is raising the price.
[01:30]	DaemonFC[m]	That's what all of these streaming companies do.
[01:30]	DaemonFC[m]	They get you hooked and then start raising the price like crazy.
[01:30]	DaemonFC[m]	Netflix costs double what it used to.
[01:33]	schestowitz	because it was losing
[01:33]	schestowitz	first they get you hooked
[01:34]	schestowitz	and hope to drive competition out of business
[01:34]	schestowitz	it looked like Uber could pull this off.... until COVID
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[01:36]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, the Uber rates to go across town like 10 miles are like $35 now.
[01:36]	DaemonFC[m]	It's collapsing because few are willing to pay that.
[01:37]	schestowitz	> It's been a while since we've chatted, but I think of you and read your work 
[01:37]	schestowitz	> often.  There's great cheer in it.
[01:37]	schestowitz	> 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> Donald Trump and republican morons have made life more difficult here than I 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> imagined anyone could and then Covid19 happened.  Me and my family are 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> managing better than most because xxxxxxxxxxx is really an essential 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> service and it's unlikely my clinic will close.  We have been careful and 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> tried to and avoid putting other people at risk, but other people around me 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> have been dangerously mislead and everyone can see the results.  At least one 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> of my clinic's patients, a person who was otherwise curable, has died of 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> Covid19.  An overflow Covid19 ward has been put across the hall from my 
[01:38]	schestowitz	> clinic several times and is now filling up again. 
[01:39]	DaemonFC[m]	COVID has completely overwhelmed my grandmother's nursing home.
[01:40]	DaemonFC[m]	https://www.mainenewsonline.com/what-is-lenovo-vantage/
[01:40]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mainenewsonline.com | What Is Lenovo Vantage? A Must-Read For Lenovo Device Users
[01:40]	DaemonFC[m]	Wow, what a puff piece.
[01:41]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: Seems like half of Lenovo Advantage is about twisting your arm into accepting bloatware and questionable "performance tuning" software, and the other half is about putting shortcuts to control panel applets that are in Windows anyway and checking Lenovo's site for outdated drivers when the Intel driver assistant does a far better job.
[01:42]	DaemonFC[m]	If that wasn't bad enough, it installs a system service that spawns a bunch of instances for god only knows what purpose.
[01:42]	schestowitz	'Advantage'
[01:42]	schestowitz	whose?
[01:42]	schestowitz	silverfish was it?
[01:43]	DaemonFC[m]	And the only part of the package you need is a much smaller app called LenovoUtility which activates the spacial key combos. 
[01:43]	schestowitz	superish https://slate.com/technology/2015/02/lenovo-superfish-scandal-why-its-one-of-the-worst-consumer-computing-screw-ups-ever.html
[01:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-slate.com | Lenovo Superfish scandal: Why its one of the worst consumer computing screw-ups ever.
[01:43]	DaemonFC[m]	superfish
[01:43]	schestowitz	https://www.pcworld.com/article/3222706/lenovos-superfish-bloatware-scandal-reveals-a-sneaky-tactic-we-thought-microsoft-had-started.html
[01:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Lenovo's Superfish bloatware scandal reveals a sneaky tactic we thought Microsoft had started | PCWorld
[01:43]	schestowitz	https://www.cnet.com/how-to/lenovo-superfish-adware-uninstall-fix/
[01:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-How to find out if your Lenovo is infected with the Superfish adware and remove it - CNET
[01:44]	DaemonFC[m]	After a few seconds of Lenovo Vantage (correct spelling) I decided I wanted nothing to do with it and uninstalled it and the system service.
[01:44]	DaemonFC[m]	It's basically scareware.
[01:44]	DaemonFC[m]	Oh no your computer will blow up if you don't buy McAfee Antivirus!
[01:44]	schestowitz	Ariadne: I'm making full backup of wordpress uploads now. Next the databases, offsite backups just in case of migration woes later on.
[01:45]	Ariadne	we'll finish that up monday
[01:45]	DaemonFC[m]	People were honestly surprised that AVG/Avast were spyware themselves.
[01:45]	schestowitz	Ariadne: thanks
[01:45]	DaemonFC[m]	You don't think they write paychecks to people to hand you freeware that's not doing something to make money....
[01:45]	schestowitz	pleroma.site will be back too, seems he's just having issues with some particular instance
[01:45]	schestowitz	[12:26] <href> it ended up failing again (not due to the pleroma.site db but to the mastodon.host one), I managed to split them, re-importing
[01:47]	DaemonFC[m]	"In July 2020, Microsoft Windows Defender began flagging the free version of CCleaner as a "potentially unwanted application", stating that "while the bundled applications themselves are legitimate, bundling of software, especially products from other providers, can result in unexpected software activity that can negatively impact user experiences."[34]"
[01:47]		*DaemonFC[m] giggles
[01:47]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, because one of the bundled products was Avast antivirus, which shuts off Windows Defender.
[01:49]	DaemonFC[m]	Windows shuts down Defender if any other antivirus product registers itself on the system.
[01:50]	DaemonFC[m]	So by doing a drive by download of Avast, it was telling Windows it was taking over, and then once it was the antivirus program, it was collecting your browsing data and other stuff and selling it to advertising companies.
[01:51]	schestowitz	I've just donated to my diaspora instance
[01:51]	schestowitz	almost forgot to this year....
[01:51]	MinceR	what does that have to do with CCleaner?
[01:51]	schestowitz	I want to make sure they stay online for ages to come
[01:51]	schestowitz	I get lots of comments there, maybe 50,000+ in total
[01:51]	DaemonFC[m]	CCleaner is owned by Avast
[01:52]	DaemonFC[m]	So they put out freeware in order to trick you into downloading their other products without your consent.
[01:52]	DaemonFC[m]	CCleaner is also spyware.
[01:53]	DaemonFC[m]	Piriform used to just make small freeware programs that were useful to deal with Windows messes.
[01:54]	DaemonFC[m]	I used CCleaner and Defraggler because they were portable apps and it could quickly blow away a bunch of junk when I was going over someone's computer trying to figure out what was wrong with it.
[01:54]	DaemonFC[m]	Windows makes a mess everywhere, including leaving gigantic backup files from the last version if you do an upgrade install.
[01:54]	schestowitz	seems like techrights is serving almost 3mb/sec on average in recent days
[01:54]	schestowitz	but the videos are to blame
[01:54]	schestowitz	https://mapopa.blogspot.com/2020/12/firebird-rust-driver-status.html
[01:54]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mapopa.blogspot.com | Mariuz's Blog: Firebird Rust driver status
[01:55]	schestowitz	rust= github
[01:55]	DaemonFC[m]	In theory, you can revert to an older version of Windows, but in fact, it almost never works out and sometimes makes the computer unbootable.
[01:55]	schestowitz	XRevan86 says firebird is also
[01:55]	DaemonFC[m]	So it's not worth the disk space for the backup files.
[01:55]	schestowitz	they sort of hide that
[01:55]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: Windows is legacy system
[01:55]	schestowitz	like PalmOS
[01:55]	schestowitz	give it another 10 years
[01:55]	schestowitz	now they have Vista10x
[01:56]	schestowitz	they don't even call it 11
[01:56]	XRevan86	schestowitz: What I say? Firebird is also?
[01:56]	schestowitz	seems like they recognise it's the end of the franchise
[01:56]	schestowitz	XRevan86: github
[01:56]	schestowitz	or maybe figosdev told me that
[01:56]	schestowitz	I think it was you though
[01:56]	schestowitz	when I said it was likely NOT in GH
[01:56]	XRevan86	Ah, it's on GitHub, yes.
[01:57]	XRevan86	So are MariaDB and Oracle MySQL
[01:57]	XRevan86	PostgreSQL is actually not.
[01:58]	XRevan86	Oracle MySQL is only partially on GitHub though, they're clearly developing it using their own Oracle internal processes.
[01:58]	XRevan86	And MariaDB uses JIRA for bugtracking.
[01:59]	MinceR	i don't know which is worse -- shithub or jira
[01:59]	XRevan86	At least it's a self-hosted JIRA.
[01:59]	XRevan86	Firebird also has bugtracking disabled on GitHub. I don't know what they use in its stead.
● Dec 20
[02:00]	XRevan86	Got it: JIRA
[02:09]	schestowitz	the thing is this
[02:09]	schestowitz	some clients of ours use JIRA
[02:09]	schestowitz	bloated and crap
[02:09]	schestowitz	I once installed JIRA on an old home server of mine
[02:09]	schestowitz	but here's the thing
[02:09]	schestowitz	github is a lto worse
[02:10]	schestowitz	because you cannot self-host an instance
[02:10]	schestowitz	in the same way you can with gitlab
[02:10]	XRevan86	schestowitz: There's GitHub Enterprise that can be self-hosted %)
[02:10]	schestowitz	so to bash jira as if it's as bad as github sort of misses the point 
[02:10]	schestowitz	hosting is how they make money to fund devs
[02:10]	schestowitz	XRevan86: so for Microsoft "Self-hosted" means PAID
[02:11]	schestowitz	and "Slave mode" is "free"
[02:11]	schestowitz	also, self-hosting github would likely NOT mean access to source code
[02:11]	schestowitz	so some kind of blackbox
[02:11]	XRevan86	pretty much
[02:11]	schestowitz	so you are not TRULY in control
[02:11]	schestowitz	it's missing the point
[02:11]	XRevan86	The source code was leaked, but you know, illegal and stuff.
[02:11]	schestowitz	like, Linux did version tracking since the 90s
[02:11]	schestowitz	github won't last 30 years
[02:12]	schestowitz	yet you might still want to use the system in 2050
[02:12]	schestowitz	if you have the code you can still make it work
[02:12]	schestowitz	tuxmachines still uses drupal 6, which I patch manually
[02:12]	schestowitz	directly on the code
[02:13]	schestowitz	if some new php version breaks things, I might find a away to use old versions anyway, for another decade
[02:13]	schestowitz	the "Open Source" people don't talk about things like this
[02:13]	schestowitz	I don't think FSF does, either
[02:13]	schestowitz	they are happy to encourage people to 'upgrade' even when there's no practical reason to
[02:14]	XRevan86	schestowitz: Have you prepared for PHP 8 already?
[02:14]	schestowitz	no
[02:15]	schestowitz	what does it break this time?
[02:15]	XRevan86	misc.
[02:16]	XRevan86	https://php.net/manual/en/migration80.incompatible.php
[02:16]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.php.net | PHP: Backward Incompatible Changes - Manual
[02:16]	schestowitz	can worry about that later
[02:17]	schestowitz	what older versions of wordpress won't work with it?
[02:17]	schestowitz	among the lts releases?
[02:17]	XRevan86	The changes are actually fairly minor, so updatable releases will probably get patched up.
[02:18]	XRevan86	But it's up to WordPress, I don't know their process.
[02:19]	XRevan86	https://make.wordpress.org/core/2020/11/23/wordpress-and-php-8-0/ apparently there are complications for WordPress
[02:19]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-make.wordpress.org | WordPress and PHP 8.0 Make WordPress Core
[02:21]	schestowitz	that talks about core
[02:21]	schestowitz	not even many plugins that are widely used
[02:21]	schestowitz	and some are no longer being maintained
[02:21]	schestowitz	there are usually people who keep security patches for old php versions
[02:22]	schestowitz	as long as those are widely used and there's a demand for security-wise support for them
[02:22]	schestowitz	that's certainly true for drupal6
[02:22]	schestowitz	some people even make business extending the life of such bits
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[02:23]	schestowitz	I'm backing up to my PC the wordpress database of TR at the moment
[02:24]	schestowitz	it's about 6gb in size
[02:24]	schestowitz	30,000 posts allmost
[02:24]	schestowitz	*almost
[02:30]		*vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights
[02:35]	DaemonFC[m]	Windows 10 is barely a coat of paint
[02:36]	DaemonFC[m]	They have all of this appx/Windows Store crap that's kind of salvaged from the Windows 8 disaster and the phone platform that never took off.
[02:41]	schestowitz	I need to sort out my gnome3 machine
[02:41]		*rianne (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights
[02:41]	schestowitz	it keeps having issues 
[02:41]		*asusbox2 (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights
[02:41]	schestowitz	with mutter I think
[02:43]	schestowitz	maybe attempting dist-upgrade is worthwhile
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● Dec 20
[03:12]	DaemonFC[m]	Mutter was having all sorts of performance problems.
[03:12]	DaemonFC[m]	And it's Red Hat as upstream again.
[03:13]	MinceR	there's a shocker
[03:13]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz The push now is to just never release X11 again apart from Xwayland.
[03:14]	DaemonFC[m]	They want to look off everything that Xwayland doesn't need and just press forward releasing that.
[03:14]	DaemonFC[m]	We're, lop off rather.
[03:14]	DaemonFC[m]	Ughhh, phone.
[03:14]	MinceR	so the third phase of EEE is ongoing against X
[03:15]	schestowitz	it's too stable
[03:15]	schestowitz	they can't sell support for that
[03:16]	schestowitz	systemd-waylandd is better
[03:16]	schestowitz	because "ux"
[03:16]	schestowitz	who needs x forwarding (ssh -X) anyway?
[03:16]	schestowitz	just run your flatpak "APPS"
[03:16]	schestowitz	like Microsoft SQL Server
[03:17]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, Wayland and Mutter are a bigger disaster than the Windows Desktop Window Manager.
[03:17]	DaemonFC[m]	And that's saying something.
[03:17]	schestowitz	Red Hat fights the Evil Empire ("Evil Empire"= "community of users" aka "neckbeards")
[03:18]	DaemonFC[m]	Red Hat wants hard pressure to use something with weird bugs that only they can figure out.
[03:24]	schestowitz	I am looking at gnome-shell extensions
[03:24]	schestowitz	e.g. to remove those massive title bars
[03:24]	schestowitz	it's not easy to accomplish
[03:28]		*DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot 2020-12-19 212603.png (187KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xghATolBjyaPRLZKaXWABpUX/Screenshot 2020-12-19 212603.png >
[03:28]	DaemonFC[m]	Microsoft Feedback Hub. MAGA!
[03:31]	MinceR	MUGU
[03:31]	XRevan86	DaemonFC[m]: I can tell you're a power user, but you still haven't fixed the date format.
[03:32]	XRevan86	They made it more complicated in Windows 10, the new Settings don't give the proper format as an option for all locales.
[03:34]	XRevan86	But being authorised with a Microsoft account in Windows blows mind. Not how I imagined DaemonFC's desktop even with the hints that he's using Windows 10.
[03:34]	XRevan86	And Firefox. I thought Brave for sure.
[03:41]	DaemonFC[m]	The MAGA Cult has turned the Feedback Hub into Parler.
[03:41]	DaemonFC[m]	Who knew?
[03:42]	DaemonFC[m]	XRevan86is making notes for Putin's cyberattack later.
[03:45]	DaemonFC[m]	What blows my mind is there's still people out there recommending uTorrent.
[03:45]	DaemonFC[m]	Even with what they know it's become.
[03:48]	DaemonFC[m]	I always change the date format to this one in Linux.
[03:48]	DaemonFC[m]	"What the hell kind of driving in the left lane bullshit is this?"
[03:53]	DaemonFC[m]	The reaction to those Windows 10 S devices was a big disaster for Microsoft.
[03:54]	DaemonFC[m]	Even with the restrictions, it's not like those make it some fast and light version of Windows or something. Everything is still there, you just can't install applications that use Win32 API from outside the store, but "Desktop Bridge" apps use it and so it's still there.
[03:54]	DaemonFC[m]	There's absolutely no upside to getting Desktop Bridge apps vs the classic apps, except that the store will push updates to it.
[03:54]	DaemonFC[m]	The Desktop Bridge version of VLC can't even play DVDs or Blu Ray discs.
[03:57]	DaemonFC[m]	https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/bittorrent-torrent-downloader/9nqffd8q559t?activetab=pivot:overviewtab#
[03:57]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Get BitTorrent - Torrent Downloader - Microsoft Store
[03:57]	DaemonFC[m]	Posts screenshots of the app pirating things
[03:57]	DaemonFC[m]	SNEAK 100
● Dec 20
[04:10]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: That guy who runs ToastyTech says he's about ready to give up and try some Linux distributions.
[04:10]	DaemonFC[m]	On his rants page.
[04:10]	DaemonFC[m]	The things he was going through to keep Windows 95 around forever was kind of making me wonder about him.
[04:13]	DaemonFC[m]	Someone repacked Cyberpunk 2077, which is so broken that all the stores are making an exception to their return policy because everyone says they got cheated.
[04:13]	DaemonFC[m]	Nothing but bugs. Runs like shit. Etc.
[04:14]		*GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[04:14]		*GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
[04:14]	DaemonFC[m]	Then there's someone repacking Red Dead Redemption 2 for Linux with a bundled copy of a blinged out Wine.
[04:21]	DaemonFC[m]	Fallout 4 with all the DLCs.
[04:21]	DaemonFC[m]	Oh yeah, the PS4 version I played was just the base game.
● Dec 20
[05:15]		*mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
● Dec 20
[06:12]		*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[06:12]	DaemonFC[m]	https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/18/tech/cyberpunk-2077-sony-playstation-store-scli-intl/index.html
[06:12]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-edition.cnn.com | Cyberpunk 2077: Sony pulls game from PlayStation Store - CNN
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[06:23]	scientes	what is wrong with firefox?
[06:25]	CrystalMath	scientes: the stupid trademark thing
[06:25]	CrystalMath	it infringes on freedom #3
[06:25]	scientes	just remove the trademark
[06:25]	scientes	it is easy
[06:25]	scientes	trademark really has nothing to do with your freedoms
[06:26]	CrystalMath	okay but then don't praise firefox :P
[06:26]	scientes	trademarks are all about false advertising
[06:26]	CrystalMath	praise icecat
[06:26]	CrystalMath	or whatever
[06:26]	scientes	no it still is firefox
[06:26]	CrystalMath	just don't mention that horrible thing
[06:26]	CrystalMath	every fork of firefox is good, but firefox sucks :P
[06:26]	scientes	Mozilla's concern is not theoretical
[06:26]	scientes	exactly
[06:26]	scientes	Firefox has a long history of ad-ware that attaches itsself to it
[06:26]	scientes	so their concerns are justified
[06:27]	scientes	as AFAIK brave does the same bullshit
[06:27]	scientes	(I have never used it)
[06:31]	CrystalMath	Gnuzilla IceCat is still better :P
[06:55]	DaemonFC[m]	The streaming platforms have gotten so bad that Cyperpunk 2077 has to have a Disable Copyrighted Music feature to keep Youtube channels from being demonetized.
● Dec 20
[07:02]	CrystalMath	yep
[07:02]	CrystalMath	but maybe games should use music composed for the game specifically
[07:02]	CrystalMath	after all, it's supposed to be art, not more pop culture
[07:05]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/19/22190767/twitter-joe-biden-winner-election-trump-tweets
[07:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | Twitter is publicly declaring Joe Biden the winner of the US election on Trumps own tweets - The Verge
[07:05]	schestowitz	Poor Carl
[07:33]	search_social	this is why i advise you to consider why twitter considers itself allied so strongly against trump
[07:37]	schestowitz	Biden 
[07:37]	schestowitz	sucking up to next Pres/
[07:37]	schestowitz	They sucked up to Trump when he was in Office
[07:40]	search_social	good idea
[07:52]	DaemonFC[m]	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1646819
[07:52]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bugzilla.mozilla.org | 1646819 - Investigate whether the Windows 10 2004 SegmentHeap feature is useful to Firefox
[07:52]	DaemonFC[m]	Apparently this is a thing. I noticed that Edge uses much less memory than Firefox.
[07:53]	DaemonFC[m]	Started investigating why. It seems that Firefox's memory allocator isn't taking advantage of SegmentHeap in Windows 10. It was added in 20H1 and so far it looks like Edge is the only browser using it. It got memory consumption down by 27% on average according to Microsoft, more according to a ZDNet article.
● Dec 20
[08:04]		*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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[08:19]	vZS1	stable = "abandonware"
[08:19]	vZS1	According to the propaganda
[08:27]		*CrystalMath has quit (Quit: May we live long and die out | http://vhemt.org/)
[08:27]	schestowitz	very abandonware genius!
[08:28]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: they used the same tactics to make Office look 'light' and 'fast'
[08:28]	schestowitz	esp. to start
[08:28]	schestowitz	they cheat
[08:28]	schestowitz	they basically outsource the RAM usage elsewhere
[08:28]	schestowitz	to fool benchmark
[08:29]	schestowitz	and you pay for Office startup with CPU cycles when you boot the PC
[08:29]	schestowitz	But Microsoft is full of frauds, so you come to expect those things
[08:29]	schestowitz	the "third party" companies should abandon Windows and/or sue Microsoft
[08:29]	schestowitz	it's technical sabotage for monopoly reasons
[08:32]	scientes	oh god
[08:33]	scientes	you remember me of when I ran windows ages ago, and every company included a "hot load" applet so that they program would appear to be light, by ALWAYS using your ram
[08:34]	scientes	and they just didn't give a damn either, like the lightweight pdf reader uses like 5mb of ram, but adobe uses like 5gb
[08:35]	vZS1	I'm happiest about my code which I haven't touched for years. It means I got it right. But this is the opposite of what a business like red hat desires; their business model won't work because they rely on things breaking all the time. 
[08:36]	vZS1	And red hat relies on monopoly to remain in business
[08:36]	scientes	oh geeze
[08:36]	schestowitz	now more people will move to debian base
[08:36]	scientes	under ever rock lurks a politician
[08:36]	schestowitz	for servers and desktops
[08:36]	scientes	Red Hat does great things
[08:36]	scientes	they are the only people developing GNOME
[08:37]	schestowitz	they abanodoned kde
[08:37]	scientes	GNOME is better
[08:37]	schestowitz	they used the IBM news to bury the news under a bus
[08:37]	scientes	mainly because of Red Hat
[08:37]	schestowitz	I liked the old GNOME better
[08:37]	schestowitz	they model it after the wrong thing
[08:37]	schestowitz	for users that don't seem to exist
[08:37]	scientes	nah, it is the only DE to use the hot corners right
[08:38]	scientes	and it also works on mobile
[08:38]	vZS1	I like KDE because of it's focus on ease of use
[08:38]	scientes	it is the first interface to have a chance on mobile
[08:38]	scientes	phosh
[08:38]	schestowitz	last night I attempted to customise my gnome3 PC
[08:38]	schestowitz	it's really NOT easy 
[08:38]	vZS1	I don't use it myself but it's good
[08:38]	scientes	but nobody has time for customization
[08:38]	schestowitz	they made it harder to do things that used to be easy and built in with old gnome
[08:38]	scientes	https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Phosh
[08:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.postmarketos.org | Phosh - postmarketOS
[08:38]	schestowitz	hence we have mate and cinnamon
[08:38]	scientes	but both of those stuck
[08:38]	scientes	*suck
[08:39]	schestowitz	they have many users
[08:39]	scientes	I can't say I agree with all the choices, but GNOME is the only interace that doesn't waste your time
[08:39]	schestowitz	so users don't agree
[08:39]	scientes	but those are ricers
[08:39]	schestowitz	those are real people
[08:39]	schestowitz	not ricers
[08:39]	schestowitz	gentoo users are ricers
[08:39]	scientes	my main complaint is that it requires OpenGL
[08:39]	schestowitz	mate is easy to use
[08:40]	scientes	but otherwise I find it is the only interface that doesn't waste my time
[08:40]	scientes	I *like* that they reduce the available features
[08:40]	kingoffrance	"nobody has time" "doesnt waste my time" "but those are ricers" none of these are technical arguments (i know he has me on ignore) these are all ad hominems
[08:42]	kingoffrance	or, being charitable, works for my use case
[08:42]	schestowitz	I used gnome for the first time in 2000
[08:42]	schestowitz	it had some decent features by then
[08:43]	schestowitz	now it cannot do some of the things it did back then
[08:43]	schestowitz	you can maybe add those manually, but it requites technical skills
[08:44]	schestowitz	so by trying to make things "easier" for the mythical "dumb" users they leave some users having to hunt gunzipped/tarred files, then plug things together
[08:44]	schestowitz	which might even end up breaking the while shebang
[08:44]	schestowitz	and carries security risks (downloads of files from the Web)
[08:44]	schestowitz	at least KDE doesn't have this 'shell extensions' thing... closest thing to it is widgets/plasmoids
[08:47]	vZS1	What's a "ricer"?
[08:47]	schestowitz	look that up, it's slang
[08:47]	search_social	i3-wm :)
[08:47]	schestowitz	arch users can called that
[08:47]	schestowitz	prior to that gentoo
[08:47]	schestowitz	I don't suppose many people still use gentoo
[08:49]	vZS1	Gentoo is not supposed to be a user-friendly system. That's not the goal.
[08:49]	vZS1	It's meant for performance benefits by fine-tuning
[08:50]	vZS1	So criticising Gentoo for being hard to use kind of misses the point
[08:51]	schestowitz	it's also meant to be highly customisable
[08:51]	schestowitz	performance is one thing
[08:52]	schestowitz	changing behaviour, then compiling again is antoher
[08:52]	schestowitz	for your favourite little patches and scratches
[08:52]	schestowitz	gentoo is a large system you control down to code level
[08:52]	schestowitz	before or after compiling it for your use
[08:52]	schestowitz	you don't even need to be a coder
[08:53]	schestowitz	you can just slip in some patches you found somewhere, e.g. to force compatibility with some old piece of software of yours
[08:53]	schestowitz	suppressed fact: chromeos is based on gentoo
[08:54]	schestowitz	personal story: last year I wanted to change KDE behaviour and could only do that by changing code
[08:54]	schestowitz	I wanted to stop the mouse pointer vanishing while I type, e.g. in kate
[08:54]	schestowitz	the only way to achieve that was to remove some lines in code of kate
[08:54]	schestowitz	in debian you'd struggle to rebuild things just to make code rather than settings work for you
[08:56]	kingoffrance	interesting, i shouldnt talk about desktops since i rarely use them, but there is separate unclutter util for x to vanish pointer
[08:56]	kingoffrance	i guess, IMO in the long run customizing can be worth more time if it saves you hassle later
[08:57]	kingoffrance	"how long it takes to set up" is not the whole "time" story
[08:57]	vZS1	I don't use DEs either. I've been using awesome wm for a good while now
[08:57]	kingoffrance	"how many annoying things it prevents later" is also a factor
[08:57]	kingoffrance	"how long it takes to set up"  is like saying i got a loan in 5 minutes
[08:58]	vZS1	ricing seems to be about cosmetics
[08:58]	kingoffrance	^
[08:58]	vZS1	None of my systems have anything to do with cosmetics
[08:58]	vZS1	I don't even change the tmux cosmetics
[08:59]	vZS1	But I've got loads of tables for it
[08:59]	scientes	<vZS1> Gentoo is not supposed to be a user-friendly system. That's not the goal.
[08:59]	scientes	<vZS1> It's meant for performance benefits by fine-tuning
[08:59]	scientes	<vZS1> So criticising Gentoo for being hard to use kind of misses the point
[08:59]	scientes	another ricer
[08:59]	scientes	you don't know anything about CPU performance
[08:59]	scientes	I end up closing lots of bugs from gentoo users
[08:59]	vZS1	I only change graphical things when they serve a fictional purpose
● Dec 20
[09:00]	scientes	because they are generally low quality reports
[09:00]	vZS1	functional*
[09:00]		*scientes liked fictional better :)
[09:01]	kingoffrance	performance is not just cpu performance
[09:01]	kingoffrance	some ppl just dont like gobs of dependencies they dont use
[09:01]	kingoffrance	complication
[09:01]	kingoffrance	more things that can break
[09:01]	vZS1	Unnecessary complexity
[09:01]	kingoffrance	^
[09:02]	kingoffrance	theres reasons to compie that have nothing to do with performance
[09:02]	kingoffrance	*compile
[09:02]	kingoffrance	either to enable or disable non-default (from package or upstream) features
[09:03]	vZS1	Like the KDE pointer thing Roy mentioned
[09:03]	kingoffrance	yup lol
[09:04]	kingoffrance	as long as theres c and c++ and things arent interpret-ish this will remain
[09:05]	kingoffrance	i guess i should stop commenting on scientes but man we are so far apart lol
[09:06]	vZS1	Plenty
[09:06]	vZS1	Go
[09:06]	IanJ	You can consume many hours of your life tweaking how your desktop looks and functions on linux/bsd systems.
[09:06]	vZS1	Haskell
[09:07]	vZS1	Rust
[09:07]	IanJ	I used my desktop largely unchanged for a long time but I recentnly took the time to theme the bits I use.
[09:07]	vZS1	Most of my tweaks are for tmux
[09:07]	vZS1	The goal is to save time
[09:08]	IanJ	It took me around 3 days of tweaking to get it to a point I'm fairly happy. A lot of that is down to there not being a common way to change the colors of the different applications.
[09:08]	IanJ	I colored my tmux bar.
[09:08]	IanJ	Do you use lynx?
[09:08]	vZS1	Nope
[09:10]	vZS1	I like how easy it is to script tmux
[09:10]	vZS1	I can control the buffers right in my login shell
[09:11]	IanJ	tmux is a really neat. I use it a lot but I have never scripted it. I have a bit of script in my bashrc to reconnect to any existing tmux session when I login or start a new one. Most stuff I run in tmux even on my desktop.
[09:12]	vZS1	It's portable too
[09:12]	IanJ	All good things :)
[09:13]	vZS1	I've used it on BSD without modifying any of my repos for it
[09:13]	IanJ	https://82.46.16.105/screenshot.png
[09:14]	IanJ	That's my current setup.
[09:16]	IanJ	Trying to get color consistency between programs was a pita as even using .Xresources to set the colours they all use them in different ways so you endup having to do a lot of it for each program.
[09:17]	IanJ	It's the first time in about 30 years I bothered to do it :D
[09:18]	IanJ	But now it's done I won't touch it again probably. I have my .files to use on any new setup.
[09:19]	IanJ	To me the orange signifies what's active.
[09:20]	vZS1	Fancy
[09:20]	vZS1	I've got an austere setup but it works
[09:21]	IanJ	Function over form is definitely the right way to go.
[09:21]	IanJ	Theming is one big rabbit hole :)
[09:31]	IanJ	There's a general trend with items we buy and software we use to reduce it's useful life span. Much of the hardware we use, the life span is determined by the battery (largely not end user replaceable these days) or the stopping of support for key applycations.
[09:33]	search_social	boycotting DNS i see, based
[09:33]	IanJ	Choosing open source software at least you have an option to jump off that consumer conveyor belt. But there's not much in the way of hardware...
[09:34]	IanJ	boycotting DNS? How do you then resolve names to IP's?
[09:35]	search_social	i mean you linked a raw ip
[09:35]	search_social	with no domain name
[09:35]	IanJ	I did, I have no name :P
[09:35]	IanJ	This is my home pc and I don't have any name pointed to it. :D
[09:36]	IanJ	But it's a novel idea... It's another way organizations know what sites you visit.
[09:38]	schestowitz	[09:08] <IanJ> It took me around 3 days of tweaking to get it to a point I'm fairly happy. A lot of that is down to there not being a common way to change the colors of the different applications.
[09:38]	schestowitz	3 days for a PC you use for 300 days is not much
[09:38]	schestowitz	let alone 900 days
[09:38]	IanJ	schestowitz: that's true :)
[09:39]	schestowitz	I spent AAAAGGGESS setting up my physical stuff here, moving monitors around and chair etc. for MONTHS
[09:39]	IanJ	Some things are worthy of investment if you're going to get a lot of mileage out of them.
[09:39]	schestowitz	maybe an hour per week for 4 months
[09:39]	search_social	IanJ: you can use https://0x0.st/ also to share files
[09:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-0x0.st | NO TITLE
[09:39]	schestowitz	one hour when you do 100 per week on a PC is a mere 1%
[09:39]	schestowitz	ergonomics can prevent back aches that can potentially 'paralyse' your workflow and cause pain
[09:40]	IanJ	I have an unusual setup here.
[09:40]	IanJ	I have no desk, an ikea poang chair and my monitor on an arm attached to a bookcase next to me.
[09:40]	schestowitz	[09:13] <IanJ> https://82.46.16.105/screenshot.png
[09:40]	schestowitz	nice to meet a gopher-er
[09:40]	IanJ	I use an ibm trackpoint keyboard so it just sits on my lap.
[09:40]	IanJ	o/
[09:41]	IanJ	That's why I asked about lynx, my first link would have been gopher :D
[09:41]	schestowitz	[09:39] <IanJ> Some things are worthy of investment if you're going to get a lot of mileage out of them.
[09:41]	schestowitz	They have a term for this now
[09:41]	schestowitz	"technical debt"
[09:42]	schestowitz	yesterday we bought two feet warmers in primark
[09:42]	schestowitz	2 for 10 pounds total
[09:42]	schestowitz	to avoid the winter 'cold feet'
[09:42]	IanJ	Nice :)
[09:42]	schestowitz	you fill them up with boiling water
[09:42]	schestowitz	they lost like 6 hours
[09:42]	IanJ	Like a hot waterbottle for your feet. Neat idea.
[09:43]	schestowitz	one is covered with panda-like doll thing, the other is faux fur
[09:43]	IanJ	haha
[09:43]	schestowitz	no, rubber bag with water
[09:43]	schestowitz	I forgot what those are called
[09:43]	schestowitz	they're more energy efficient than radiators
[09:43]	IanJ	Hot water bottle! We used them years ago, before electric blankets were a thing.
[09:43]	schestowitz	ah, ok
[09:44]	schestowitz	when kids, we'd use them when getting the cold or flu
[09:44]	schestowitz	along with tea
[09:44]	IanJ	Just have to make sure you buy quality ones, you don't want them leaking in your bed :D
[09:44]	schestowitz	have not used them in like 30 years
[09:45]	IanJ	There are many old awesome inventions that people rarely use these days due to techology and electricity powering everything.
[09:45]	schestowitz	yes, exactly
[09:45]	IanJ	Same as basic things like razors.
[09:45]	schestowitz	can't wait for "smart" ones
[09:45]	schestowitz	that connect to your wifi
[09:45]	IanJ	I hate all that stuff.
[09:45]	IanJ	To me a smart home is devoid of electricity gobling gadgets that spy on you.
[09:46]	schestowitz	to send the temperature readings to somewherenearyou.amazon.com
[09:46]	schestowitz	then you can log in to a portal
[09:46]	schestowitz	and "share on facebook" some graph
[09:46]	schestowitz	showing people what times of the day you do something
[09:47]	IanJ	gopher://82.46.16.105/0/phlog/Money-saving-and-minimalism/Safety-Razor.md
[09:47]	IanJ	Lol
[09:50]	IanJ	Craziness is spending half your life telling others how great it is and trying to convince them and you that it is great. :D
[09:50]	IanJ	I never had a facebook account and swore I never would.
[09:50]	schestowitz	what program for kde does gopher well? "Could not find any application or handler for gopher://82.46.16.105/0/phlog/Money-saving-and-minimalism/Safety-Razor.md "
[09:50]	IanJ	oh, lynx
[09:51]	IanJ	lynx is commandline
[09:51]	IanJ	I could copy the article to https if you prefer?
[09:52]	schestowitz	no, it's ok
[09:52]	schestowitz	I just checked 4 machines of mine
[09:52]	schestowitz	to see if they have lynx
[09:52]	schestowitz	I don't want to install it just for one page
[09:53]	IanJ	it's useful if you want to visit gopher sites.
[09:53]	schestowitz	rarely happens
[09:53]	IanJ	it's also very small.
[09:54]	IanJ	https://82.46.16.105/Safety-Razor.txt
[09:54]	search_social	how do you find good gopher sites
[09:55]	IanJ	You can use veronica2 search engine, or floodgap
[09:55]	IanJ	Let me find you a gopher proxy.
[09:56]	IanJ	https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/
[09:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-gopher.floodgap.com | Public Gopher Proxy @ Floodgap.com: Access Gopher Sites from Your Browser
[09:57]	IanJ	https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw
[09:57]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 200 @ https://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw )
[09:57]	IanJ	The gw is probably where to start :)
[09:58]	search_social	thanks
[09:58]	IanJ	From there you can search using veronica2
[09:58]	IanJ	It gives you full access to gopherspace via your normal browser.
● Dec 20
[10:02]	IanJ	That's one thing that I do find lacking however. A good search engine as it relies on indexing document names only.
[10:02]	IanJ	But how do you collect meta data on plain text documents that largerly have no formatting...
[10:03]	IanJ	I thought about that as a bit of a pet project.
[10:04]	IanJ	I could call it gobble :P
[10:05]	IanJ	and slowly take over the world *evil laugh*
[10:06]	vZS1	I use ipfs to share files
[10:06]	IanJ	That's basically what gopher was designed for.
[10:07]	IanJ	file system structure on the network
[10:07]	vZS1	I like IPFS because it's like BitTorrent
[10:08]	IanJ	That's cool
[10:08]	vZS1	P2P is nice for redundancy
[10:08]	vZS1	One system goes down? No problem.
[10:08]	IanJ	If there are multiple peers then yes, it's cool.
[10:09]	IanJ	Decentralised is definitely the way things need to go, but those who want to control want the opposite.
[10:09]	schestowitz	sometimes publishers want control to
[10:09]	schestowitz	*too
[10:09]	schestowitz	either over their own stuff
[10:09]	schestowitz	like deleting ipfs objects
[10:10]	schestowitz	or others' copies of it, even if fair use
[10:10]	schestowitz	it poses a threat to their business models 
[10:11]	vZS1	Architectures all have a purpose. The right one depends on the use case
[10:11]	vZS1	Sometimes you want only one central node
[10:12]	IanJ	Once you put something up on torrent though, if someone copies it then you have no control over that other persons copy, which then gets copied etc.
[10:13]	vZS1	That's pretty clear from the outset
[10:13]	IanJ	My isp blocks torrent search engines.
[10:14]	vZS1	You can use encrypted proxies
[10:14]	vZS1	Tor is one example
[10:15]	vZS1	My ISP blocks loads of things
[10:15]	vZS1	But I still get around all of them
[10:16]	vZS1	Then again, I'm a security person so it's a bit difficult for them. Lol
[10:17]	vZS1	In a way, the bloat of the web is good for internet users
[10:17]	vZS1	When you have encrypted traffic they can't just block everything
[10:18]	vZS1	Because people consume so much data anyway
[10:18]	vZS1	There's a ton of noise
[10:18]	vZS1	Pile encryption on top of that and you see how difficult it is for them to enforce traffic shaping
[10:20]	IanJ	The way my isp do it is quite lame, if I change dns provider I see the search engine sites again.
[10:20]	vZS1	Their "deep packet inspection" is just more snake oil
[10:22]	vZS1	Yeah. Most home routers are configured to use the ISPs DNS servers. That's how they filter traffic
[10:22]	vZS1	ISP's*
[10:25]	vZS1	The nice thing about IPFS is you don't need to worry about port forwarding. So even if you have a really brittle router (no automation), you can use stuff like IPNS to still make dynamic systems.
[10:27]	vZS1	IPNS is like Tor. You generate an asymmetric encryption key pair and make the public key point to an IPFS object. The pointer is called an IPNS object. Similar to how you'd create an onion service for Tor.
[10:29]	vZS1	So you can just update the pointer when you change the underlying objects. That gives you mutability.
[10:31]	vZS1	BitTorrent lacks this functionality
[10:32]	vZS1	IPFS also uses something called multihash which is a data structure that contains hash metadata. So you can update hash algorithms when they need to change
[10:33]	vZS1	Git, BitTorrent, etc are all built with a hard-coded hash algorithm SHA-1
[10:33]	vZS1	Now they're realising how painful it is to have assumptions like that built into the core design
[10:37]	IanJ	Interesting, I'll have to take a look. I never heard of it before you mentioned it.
[10:37]	vZS1	Yeah. It's pretty neat
● Dec 20
[11:00]		*Achylles (~Achylles@191.254.130.93) has joined #techrights
[11:07]	scientes	XRevan86, the most bizaare part of the Koran is how it constantly references itsself, "We made the Koran easy to remember", or "They keep repeating the opening verses of the Koran" et cetera
[11:08]	scientes	or "This book contains ambiguities, which you shouldn't try to interpret"
[11:08]	scientes	it makes it a form of mind control
[11:09]	scientes	certainly circular logic
[11:12]	scientes	more of the same in Tbilisi https://oc-media.org/tbilisi-mayor-poses-with-aprika-residents-after-demolishing-squatter-settlement/
[11:12]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-oc-media.org | Tbilisi Mayor poses with Aprika residents after demolishing squatter settlement
[11:12]	scientes	like how they got the refugees from Abkhazia to move by turning off the power and water
[11:13]	scientes	from the very buildings they had told them to live in
[11:13]		*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
[11:13]		*vZS1 (~vZS1@92.40.200.92.threembb.co.uk) has joined #techrights
[11:14]	scientes	and the buses stopped running again
[11:14]	scientes	I still don't get how they removed everything from the train station
[11:15]	scientes	while about a year ago Russia made toilets free in train stations with long-distance trains
[11:15]	scientes	when I saw that it made me cheer up a little
[11:20]	MinceR	(cat) (no audio) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/11/22/ac352520a86f0641.mp4
[11:27]		*Achylles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[11:44]	search_social	"This book contains ambiguities, which you shouldn't try to interpret"
[11:45]	search_social	that narrows it down
[11:58]	MinceR	:>
● Dec 20
[12:05]	MinceR	https://assets.amuniversal.com/6d4dff60dc8d0137ca81005056a9545d   ( https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-11-14 )
[12:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Attending A Funeral - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2019-11-14 | Dilbert by Scott Adams
[12:24]	scientes	MinceR, that is no house cat
[12:24]	MinceR	indeed
[12:25]	scientes	"it's not my own funeral"
[12:25]	scientes	oh god, that is horrible
[12:25]	scientes	uggh
[12:25]	scientes	i really do not want to install docker
[12:26]	scientes	I am tired of endlessly growing complexity
[12:26]	scientes	every project has its own insane build system
[12:35]	scientes	I am also hoping to switch to Ubuntu to Debian
[12:35]	scientes	but that is a PITA to do
[12:35]	scientes	just because I am tired of being dragged along on this snap fail-wagon
[12:38]	IanJ	I recently switched to devuan from debian after many years of use.
[12:40]	IanJ	The whole systemd thing started to become a moral issue to me so I chose something I could feel happier about whilst still being familiar.
[12:42]	MinceR	i have a devuan stratum in most of my bedrock systems :>
[12:42]	IanJ	I'm running Beowulf here
[12:42]	scientes	IanJ, do you consider youself a little-Endian or big-Endian?
[12:43]	scientes	speaking or serious moral issues
[12:43]	IanJ	I don't feel we know eathother well enough to be talking about my endian :P
● Dec 20
[13:08]	IanJ	I guess you could say I'm bi-endian. I have intel+amd (both little-endian) and also more interesting stuff like powerpc (bi-endian) and MIPS hardware (big-endian).
[13:08]	IanJ	Is that what you were asking?
[13:10]	IanJ	The old sgi rarely gets fired up these days though. 10mbit networking feels like using dialup these days...
[13:12]	IanJ	Oh, the MIPS is bi-endian too aparently.
[13:16]	IanJ	I wonder what microsofts new processor architecture will be.
[13:19]	scientes	IanJ, you think Microsoft has the resources to develop a processor architecutre
[13:19]	scientes	Hah!
[13:19]	scientes	they might pretend to
[13:19]	scientes	like they pretend to do many things
[13:19]	IanJ	Qualcomm
[13:19]	IanJ	https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/business/surface-pro-x/processor
[13:19]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-The SQ1 Processor in Surface Pro X Microsoft Surface for Business
[13:19]	IanJ	ARM 64
[13:20]		*Blukunfando has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
[13:20]	IanJ	Microsoft never invent anything. They buy companies or use their services and steal their ideas. 
[13:24]	IanJ	I like the small print disclaimer at the bottom that informs people 64bit appliations that haven't been ported to ARM64 won't install.
[13:32]		*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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● Dec 20
[14:26]	MinceR	https://assets.amuniversal.com/e9db1550e8240137cece005056a9545d   ( https://dilbert.com/strip/2019-12-22 )
[14:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Wally Uses Deep Fake - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2019-12-22 | Dilbert by Scott Adams
[14:32]		*titanbiscuit has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[14:35]	IanJ	Anyone here had any experience with yubikeys or have an opinion on them?
[14:37]		*titanbiscuit (~tbisk@104.200.131.173) has joined #techrights
[14:52]	MinceR	https://assets.amuniversal.com/ea833f904ac60138f105005056a9545d   ( https://dilbert.com/strip/2020-04-01 )
[14:52]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Goggles Remove Humans - Dilbert Comic Strip on 2020-04-01 | Dilbert by Scott Adams
● Dec 20
[15:03]	scientes	IanJ, 10X the price they should be, and they don't even store keys for you, so they are basically just slavery devices--security for them, and no security for you
[15:04]	scientes	MinceR, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsG0P2jjYnI
[15:04]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Value Select's Seeing Eye Knife - YouTube
[15:11]	IanJ	scientes: I agree re the price, it is extortionate. But I saw they were programable to use as a normal password keeper so you can use them for auto login on your pc or for use with a password manager.
[15:12]	scientes	IanJ, https://www.crowdsupply.com/solokeys/somu
[15:12]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.crowdsupply.com | Somu | Crowd Supply
[15:12]	scientes	that is at least free software (+ hardware!)
[15:14]	MinceR	don't they rely on a third party which could betray you?
[15:15]	scientes	MinceR, yeah but that is the very design of those things
[15:15]	scientes	to not empower you at all, because they can't actually store secondary keys for you
[15:16]	scientes	basically Google was already doing this
[15:16]	scientes	and they thought, Hey! Lets get them to pay for it, fucking idiots!
[15:16]	scientes	for their serfs
[15:16]	IanJ	scientes: nice link, thanks
[15:17]	scientes	which can be evidenced by how they didn't really care if it works with openssh
[15:17]	scientes	or pam
[15:17]	scientes	or really anything else besides corporate serfdom shit
[15:17]	IanJ	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfVhAtJt5_o
[15:17]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Setting up the YubiKey on Ubuntu (Desktop and Server) - YouTube
[15:18]	scientes	yeah but its totally half-assed--notice the lack of a proper error message https://youtu.be/pfVhAtJt5_o?t=427 --- and didn't work at all with the first generation of keys
[15:18]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Setting up the YubiKey on Ubuntu (Desktop and Server) - YouTube
[15:18]	scientes	because they are not keys
[15:18]	scientes	they are slavery devices
[15:19]	scientes	where only logging into the mainframe was really considered
[15:19]	scientes	because they come from what these companies were already forcing their <s>employees</s> serfs to do
[15:20]	scientes	like fingerpintd actually works pretty well
[15:20]	scientes	but this is all half-assed'
[15:20]	IanJ	I figure it's a lesser evil than having your phone and sms used for secondary authentication.
[15:20]	scientes	IanJ, I thought like you until I actually got one
[15:21]	scientes	and then I realized I had been fooled
[15:21]	scientes	IanJ, no, you don't get it
[15:21]	MinceR	what did you find out?
[15:21]	scientes	it is possible for them to prove that you have the device
[15:22]	scientes	but for the first-generation it is useless for offline authentication
[15:22]	IanJ	I wouldn't be interested in that. I would want to use it offline  and not have to type in passwords.
[15:22]	scientes	because those ones don't store secondary keys---they only use a special-sause (FIDO2) authentication method
[15:22]	scientes	IanJ, get fingerprint reader
[15:23]	scientes	not very secure, but that is really all you get for physical attacks
[15:23]	scientes	because of the cold boot attack
[15:24]	IanJ	It's very scary and very paranoia inducing if you really start to think about any of it. How your phone is effectively a 'slavery device' as you call it.
[15:24]	MinceR	special sauce doesn't sound secure to me
[15:25]	scientes	if you have a google android device that is exactly what it is
[15:25]	scientes	and that is exactly what they consider it
[15:25]	IanJ	Yeah, unfortunately I do :(
[15:25]	scientes	which is why they have all those COVID-19 apps
[15:25]	IanJ	I'd still be using an old nokia if it weren't for whatsapp dropping support for s60.
[15:25]	scientes	MinceR, it is defined (FIDO2) but it is kinda like OpenID---looks slick until you look into it
[15:26]	MinceR	:>
[15:26]	scientes	OpenID still has its uses
[15:26]	scientes	but what happened is that everyone stopped taking it
[15:28]	IanJ	Effectively all I want is a little widget that I can program with a password without any third party involvment so I can plug it in and press the button to login or use for secondary auth on my VPS.
[15:29]	IanJ	Passwords are generally the weak link because people use stuff they can remember and type easily. If you create a way of storing better passwords on a device that has to be present I think that's much better.
[15:31]	IanJ	or worse you hide secure passwords all in one place behind a weaker password you can remember.
[15:32]	IanJ	I actually wish I never bought any of my android devices.
[15:34]	IanJ	One of them has become unusable because the third party that originally sold them took down a server somewhere and it can't call home anymore so I can't go though the setup process.
[15:34]	IanJ	One just randomly stopped working after the warranty was up.
[15:35]	IanJ	My tablet I still use for general surfing but it's actually killing my eyes to use these days and I'm resenting google a lot these days so I find myself using it less and less.
[15:35]	IanJ	Then there's my moto phone which I got effectively so I could just continue to use whatsapp.
[15:37]	IanJ	I think a usable linux phone is still some way off unfortunaely.
[15:44]	scientes	I got the pinephone right here
[15:44]	scientes	and also, android runs linux
[15:44]	scientes	that is a fact
[15:46]	MinceR	(cat) (audio) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/11/22/5fd58c1be5edc489.mp4
[15:53]		*CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights
[15:58]	DaemonFC[m]	I figured that Microsoft was either sweeping Edge's real memory use under the carpet or using some undocumented API in Windows.
[15:59]	DaemonFC[m]	But it turns out that Windows was just really bad at managing heap allocation until the May release of Windows 10. And if you are using an older program it may just still be using that older allocation method that wastes a bunch of RAM.
● Dec 20
[16:00]	DaemonFC[m]	Firefox and Chrome just aren't using the new allocation method and Edge does, so it's quite often using a third to a half less RAM than other browsers on Windows.
[16:01]	DaemonFC[m]	It's kind of embarrassing that Google and Mozilla aren't moving on this as an opportunity to shrink their browser footprint.
[16:01]	DaemonFC[m]	Google put it in and then backed it out because it made Chrome slightly slower on benchmarks.
[16:02]	MinceR	it's windows, so nobody cares
[16:02]	XRevan86	MinceR: DaemonFC cares.
[16:02]	DaemonFC[m]	It's all about benchmark numbers apparently and we won't worry that it's using another 600 MB of RAM when the user opens the task manager.
[16:02]	MinceR	XRevan86: if he cared, he wouldn't be using windows
[16:02]	DaemonFC[m]	Well, you know, Mozilla should care.
[16:03]	DaemonFC[m]	But it doesn't seem like they do care. Firefox is trying to sell me a VPN now.
[16:03]	DaemonFC[m]	It seems to be a piece of adware that can also browse the web.
[16:05]	XRevan86	DaemonFC[m]: I have no doubts this will be upstreamed to Chromium.
[16:06]	XRevan86	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1646819 here's a related bmo
[16:06]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bugzilla.mozilla.org | 1646819 - Investigate whether the Windows 10 2004 SegmentHeap feature is useful to Firefox
[16:07]		*XRevan86 read the last comment.
[16:07]	XRevan86	O.K., now I have doubts about it being upstreamed to Chromium.
[16:09]	XRevan86	DaemonFC[m]: You're so quick to judge, but turns out things aren't so simple.
[16:10]	MinceR	mozilla stopped caring long ago
[16:10]	XRevan86	If there's a low hanging fruit that Mozilla can pick that will instantly improve Firefox's performance, they'd sure pick it up/';
[16:23]	DaemonFC[m]	It does seem pretty low hanging to me.
[16:24]	DaemonFC[m]	But the way Google sees it, it's more often that articles about how fast Chrome runs through benchmarks and a 2 or 3% slowdown on a benchmark that nobody cares about could cost it first place even though the reviewer is unlikely to talk about it using a third more memory than Edge.
[16:25]	DaemonFC[m]	So Microsoft chose to get the memory usage under control and Google chose benchmarks that nobody will notice at the cost of degrading the OS and other applications on the computer. Same thing they always do.
[16:26]	DaemonFC[m]	It seems to me that the only platform where Google tries to do anything to promote good battery life and overall performance is Chrome OS.
[16:27]	DaemonFC[m]	Microsoft has an incentive to try to put Edge on a diet because they're trying to position laptops with 4 GB of RAM as Windows S and competition for Chromebooks.
[16:28]	DaemonFC[m]	So Google's position is pretty nakedly all about getting first place on benchmarks even at the expense of the system.
[16:29]	DaemonFC[m]	Mozilla isn't using a build bot host for Windows that supports building Firefox like this, yet.
[16:33]	DaemonFC[m]	I found a way to get videos to stop autoplaying in Chromium browsers.
[16:33]	DaemonFC[m]	NoScript can be set to disable media elements only and it has Youtube on the whitelist.
[16:34]	DaemonFC[m]	Kind of sad you have to resort to an extension to do something so simple.
[16:34]	XRevan86	> it is important to note that the "100% overhead" which it avoids is only that extreme on high core-count machines
[16:35]	DaemonFC[m]	At 8 threads, the overhead in Firefox is already pretty severe.
[16:39]	XRevan86	DaemonFC[m]: Have you noticed concerns that this also harms battery life?
[16:42]	DaemonFC[m]	I haven't seen anyone mention that.
[16:42]	DaemonFC[m]	https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/17/success/landlords-struggling-rent-eviction/index.html
[16:42]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-edition.cnn.com | It's not just renters. Landlords are struggling, too - CNN
[16:42]	XRevan86	https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1102281#c23
[16:42]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bugs.chromium.org | 1102281 - chromium - An open-source project to help move the web forward. - Monorail
[16:43]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, so much for the "Plan for disasters and have an emergency fund." advice.
[16:43]	DaemonFC[m]	Maybe they should have bought less avocado toast.
[16:43]	DaemonFC[m]	"Peter Gray, president of Pyramid Real Estate Group in Stamford, Connecticut, is not only a property owner collecting rent on 30 of his own properties, but also a property manager who handles maintenance and rent collection for other landlords. While only a couple of his own tenants have stopped paying, some of his landlord clients are having trouble paying him."
[16:43]	DaemonFC[m]	Sounds like a pyramid scheme.
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● Dec 20
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[17:03]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19707342
[17:03]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #corporateMedia : let's moan for the rich https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/17/success/landlords-struggling-rent-eviction/index.html
[17:04]	schestowitz	yramid Real Estate Group
[17:04]	schestowitz	LOL!
[17:04]	schestowitz	Pyramid Real Estate Group
[17:04]	schestowitz	it says right on the tin what they are
[17:04]	schestowitz	they're a collection agency
[17:04]	schestowitz	becoming richer out of poor people who cannot buy a home
[17:05]	MinceR	:>
[17:05]	schestowitz	but not the poor are so poor that the scheme is collapsing
[17:05]	MinceR	pyramid scheme?
[17:05]	schestowitz	as it ought to
[17:05]	schestowitz	yes, money upwards
[17:05]	schestowitz	mlm
[17:05]	schestowitz	b2b
[17:05]	schestowitz	all those euphemisms
[17:05]	schestowitz	they're just some parasite middleman
[17:05]	schestowitz	parasitic
[17:05]	schestowitz	because money flows to them
[17:05]	schestowitz	and they don't actually do anything
[17:05]	schestowitz	like hedge funds
[17:06]	schestowitz	or vulture 'activist' investors
[17:08]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: I emailed my dad talking about Fox News having to do major retractions of their voting machine conspiracies after surmising that they would lose a lawsuit that was threatened.
[17:09]	DaemonFC[m]	I threw in: Maybe when "President Clark" storms "ISN" after discussing "Marshall"[sic] law with his stupid idiots in the White House, they'll go back to fawning over him 24 hours a day.
[17:09]	DaemonFC[m]	Who knows?
[17:10]	DaemonFC[m]	schestowitz: The comparison was to the illegitimate government that was set up on Earth in one of the story arcs on B5.
[17:11]	DaemonFC[m]	In one of the episodes, a robber baron told Mr. Garibaldi that corporations had secretly signed off on Clark's takeover because they thought he was a fool that they'd be able to control and profit off of.
[17:14]	DaemonFC[m]	I think he mentioned the "Russians" causing problems "again" in 2025 or something.
[17:15]	DaemonFC[m]	Of course, the reasons why sci fi timelines seem prophetic sometimes is because honestly when are governments not causing problems?
[17:15]	DaemonFC[m]	When are people not putting those in power who don't deserve it and won't do good things when they get it?
[17:15]	DaemonFC[m]	Rarely, if ever.
[17:18]	scientes	ever played this game XRevan86 https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=2048&ia=answer
[17:18]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-html.duckduckgo.com | 2048 at DuckDuckGo
[17:18]	scientes	I really suck at it
[17:18]	scientes	I've only gotten to like 256
[17:19]	scientes	there has to be some strategy i am missing
[17:20]	DaemonFC[m]	https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/927665/the-msdia80-dll-file-is-installed-in-the-root-folder-of-the-boot-drive
[17:20]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-support.microsoft.com | 
[17:20]	DaemonFC[m]	LOL
[17:22]	XRevan86	scientes: No, not something I fancy.
[17:22]	scientes	it looks more interesting that sodoku
[17:22]	DaemonFC[m]	Then they have a typo in the workaround.
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[17:27]	scientes	anyways, i was just playing on my pinephone and it was preinstalled
[17:28]	scientes	so now i am wasting my time
[17:28]	XRevan86	scientes: What OS have you chosen for PinePhone?
[17:29]	scientes	mobian
[17:30]	XRevan86	I'm curious, does postmarketOS support locales?
[17:30]	scientes	when i saw how horribe the postmarketos build system was I changed my opinion of it
[17:31]	scientes	it uses like 5 bazillion bind mounts
[17:31]	scientes	turns out all the projects are using each other's software, in true GNU/Linux style
[17:31]	MinceR	doesn't android use a lot of bind mounts too?
[17:31]	scientes	especially the libram 5 development stuff
[17:31]	XRevan86	Android is special.
[17:32]	scientes	android also uses selinux extensively
[17:32]	scientes	which makes it hair-pullingly painful 
[17:33]	scientes	if Lennary Poettering says "SELinux is a great piece of software....except that I don't understand it"
[17:33]	scientes	all of these "security" systems are stupid, because Linux is unfixable in how insecure it is
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[17:35]	DaemonFC[m]	Of course he doesn't understand it. He's too busy fawning over the service manager and audio system of Windows.
[17:37]	DaemonFC[m]	qBittorrent is kind of a pig compared with Tixati.
[17:37]	DaemonFC[m]	But it has some interesting features.
[17:37]	DaemonFC[m]	Including a "privacy mode" which really only makes sense to use on a VPN of course.
[17:38]	DaemonFC[m]	But it stops advertising what the client name is and does some other things to counter unique fingerprints advertised to the swarm.
[17:39]	MinceR	:>
[17:40]	DaemonFC[m]	The US is pretty much governed by IP trolls.
[17:40]	DaemonFC[m]	They run Congress, so anything that helps disguise you is nice because you can be damned sure that copyright lawyers are logging anything they can get from your bittorrent client. 
[17:41]	DaemonFC[m]	MinceR: I suppose there's a security win here as well.
[17:41]	DaemonFC[m]	If the other peers don't know what client you're using they might not be able to as easily figure out an exploit that would work.
[17:42]	DaemonFC[m]	Many people are still using an old version of uTorrent from many years ago. The last build before a bunch of adware got crammed into it.
[17:42]	schestowitz	DaemonFC[m]: "Trumps COVID failure, which has caused more than 415,000 excess deaths in America with another 600,000 anticipated by next spring or thereabouts"  https://rinj.press/fpmag/december-2020/russian-apt-could-mean-usa-collapse-in-depth-report/
[17:42]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 508 @ https://rinj.press/fpmag/december-2020/russian-apt-could-mean-usa-collapse-in-depth-report/ )
[17:42]	schestowitz	excess deaths
[17:42]	schestowitz	those are the numbers I was after
[17:43]	MinceR	they could just try all the exploits
[17:43]	DaemonFC[m]	True.
[17:44]	DaemonFC[m]	Some people actually use the mainline client.
[17:44]	DaemonFC[m]	Seems the majority are using some open source one.
[17:44]	DaemonFC[m]	Probably either on Linux or trying to avoid the ones packed with malware, all proprietary.
[17:53]	DaemonFC[m]	https://news.yahoo.com/mitch-mcconnell-seeks-end-coronavirus-170154289.html
[17:53]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.yahoo.com | Mitch McConnell seeks to end coronavirus paid sick leave program
[17:53]	DaemonFC[m]	The Republicans are trying to end the paid sick leave program for workers diagnosed with the Coronavirus, who have to quarantine for at least 10 days.
[17:54]	DaemonFC[m]	Meaning you'll just miss out on an entire paycheck.
[17:54]	scientes	ooo, gnome's web browser looks pretty good on the pinephone
[17:57]	DaemonFC[m]	All modern browsers are terrible.
[17:57]	DaemonFC[m]	But we're creeping back into that "bloated pig" even by modern standards problem on Firefox.
[17:58]	scientes	ok i take that back
[17:58]	scientes	it still has right-click menu
[17:59]	MinceR	"bloated pig" is given when you try to implement the "modern" web "standards"
● Dec 20
[18:03]	scientes	also the pinephone is 4xA53
[18:03]	scientes	which is an in-order processor, so pretty slow
[18:04]	scientes	i guess my other phone is 8xA53
[18:04]	MinceR	https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705914.jpg
[18:05]	scientes	I bet there are more A53 cores in the world than people
[18:05]	XRevan86	MinceR: He's back and he wants blood!
[18:06]	MinceR	indeed
[18:07]	MinceR	he vill suck your bluhd
[18:07]	scientes	wow, firefox is defintely faster rendering however
[18:19]	MinceR	https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705833.jpg
[18:20]	scientes	browser.newtabpage.activity-stream.filterAdult
[18:20]	scientes	HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[18:21]	scientes	https://github.com/matthewruttley/contentfilter/blob/master/sites.json
[18:21]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-contentfilter/sites.json at master matthewruttley/contentfilter GitHub
[18:21]	scientes	the firefox new tab page blacklist
[18:30]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, porn sites floating to your new tab page.
[18:30]	DaemonFC[m]	Very nice when other people are looking at your browser, right?
[18:32]	DaemonFC[m]	Wait a second. There's a firefox blocklist for the new tab page's most frequent sites and it has URLs of bestiality porn.
[18:32]	DaemonFC[m]	OMG. That's funny.
[18:34]	schestowitz	tell the Gates familt
[18:34]	schestowitz	*family
[18:34]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/08/21/zoophilia-gates-estate/
[18:34]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Melinda and Zoophilia Found in Tandem in the Illegal Pornographic Stash of Bill Gates Engineer | Techrights
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[18:56]	DaemonFC[m]	Seems Windows 10 has a "compressed memory" feature.
[18:56]	DaemonFC[m]	Fedora is copying that now.
● Dec 20
[19:03]	XRevan86	Linux stole the "compressed memory" feature from Windows 10 in 2010.
[19:04]	XRevan86	The audacity.
[19:09]	MinceR	https://hugelolcdn.com/i/705802.jpg
[19:10]	XRevan86	almost a literal backdoor
[19:14]	DaemonFC[m]	Meh, maybe no distributions really bothered to set it up until now.
[19:14]	DaemonFC[m]	Of course Windows 10 seems to use a lot of memory.
[19:15]	XRevan86	DaemonFC[m]: According to Wikipedia, Lubuntu did.
[19:36]	MinceR	(cat) https://ircz.de/p/20071631
[19:36]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4758370)
● Dec 20
[20:06]	IanJ	scientes: Is the pinephone actually a usable device or just a gimicky toy?
[20:06]	scientes	it is certainly not a toy
[20:06]	IanJ	Is it your daily driver?
[20:07]	scientes	and the mobile works
[20:07]	scientes	but no, it is a PITA
[20:07]	IanJ	haha :)
[20:07]	scientes	however it is actually promising
[20:07]	scientes	unlike ubuntu touch on the nexus 4 back in the day
[20:07]	IanJ	Yeah, that's what I read, it's just not there yet. :(
[20:07]	scientes	which was immediately "they will never work"
[20:07]	scientes	this clearly has promise
[20:08]	scientes	and calls actually work
[20:08]	scientes	which is pretty amazing
[20:08]	scientes	considering that noone was ever able to do that before
[20:09]	IanJ	I'm glad it's progressing though.
[20:11]	DaemonFC[m]	It seems Windows can actually play most formats now without those awful codec packs.
[20:11]	scientes	like the hardware basically works
[20:11]	scientes	i can pull up firefox and it works
[20:13]	scientes	and the gnome interface is pretty slick
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● Dec 20
[21:22]	smnthermes	https://github.blog/2020-12-15-token-authentication-requirements-for-git-operations/
[21:22]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-github.blog | Token authentication requirements for Git operations - The GitHub Blog
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[21:40]	MinceR	(audio:important) https://hugelolcdn.com/v/705738.webm
[21:51]	MinceR	https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/buffon
[21:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Buffon
[21:56]	DaemonFC[m]	I couldn't figure out how to get my laptop to output to the TV over HDMI.
[21:56]	DaemonFC[m]	But then again, I might have grabbed the cord that John was always screwing around with because the TV would lose the signal from his PS4.
[21:56]	MinceR	plug the HDMI cable into the laptop and into the TV, then set the laptop to use the HDMI output
[21:56]	DaemonFC[m]	When I don't have the hard disk hooked up later I might go over it again with a different cable and throw that one in the trash.
[21:58]	DaemonFC[m]	How does a Chromecast work? Can you just mirror anything?
[21:58]	MinceR	\_()_/
[21:58]	DaemonFC[m]	I opened up the cast thing and I got my neighbor's Fire TV stick.
[21:58]	DaemonFC[m]	But then when I plugged in the one my mom gave me, it was the one without mirroring.
● Dec 20
[22:02]	DaemonFC[m]	I have a roku around here somewhere.
[22:02]	DaemonFC[m]	But after the move I haven't seen it.
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[22:13]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, it's the cable.
[22:15]	MinceR	http://www.dorktower.com/2020/06/05/supermarket-sweeps-dork-tower-05-06-20/
[22:15]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.dorktower.com | Supermarket Sweeps DORK TOWER 05.06.20 Dork Tower
[22:22]	Ariadne	DaemonFC[m]: it goes to a webpage
[22:22]	Ariadne	you direct it to go to
[22:32]	DaemonFC[m]	Okay, I ordered a 12 footer HDMI.
[22:33]	DaemonFC[m]	I can get from the laptop to the TV with that with maybe some room to spare.
[22:33]	DaemonFC[m]	It's hacky, but it's $10 and the 6 foot cable worked it just wasn't long enough.
[22:34]	DaemonFC[m]	MinceR: It seems that "Casting" is just full of bugs and they're removing support for stuff that's on your local computer because pirates I guess.
[22:35]	DaemonFC[m]	Microsoft was pushing Miracast for a while, but it was more like Miracrashed.
[22:35]	MinceR	:D
[22:35]	DaemonFC[m]	They hurried up to set up demos at Best Buy and the Microsoft Store and the demo didn't work and blue screen of deathed a Windows laptop I tried it with at the Microsoft Store.
[22:36]	MinceR	but did it cast the BSOD to the TV?
[22:36]	DaemonFC[m]	So the upside with this computer is it's a full sized laptop with full sized ports, including HDMI.
[22:37]	DaemonFC[m]	MinceR: A few frames of the desktop then the Blue Screen of Death and then "Welcome to the Microsoft Miracast receiver. Please connect a device.".
[22:37]	MinceR	big deal, my subnotebook has a full-sized HDMI port too :>
[22:37]	MinceR	ah
[22:37]	MinceR	bit of a letdown
[22:37]	DaemonFC[m]	Which is what you expect given Windows and Microsoft and Intel and all.
[22:37]	MinceR	it should continue to reliably cast the BSOD to the TV
[22:37]	DaemonFC[m]	Something happened something happened.
[22:38]	MinceR	after all, if you directed the output of a PC running windows to a TV, a BSOD is what you wanted to see
[22:38]	MinceR	even the superthin/superlight laptop i'm considering buying has a full sized HDMI port
[22:38]	DaemonFC[m]	I suspect that we'll see fewer successful attacks on the new Edge because the upstream is Google, which actually fixes bugs and it uses open source libraries where the maintainers accept bug fixes.
[22:38]	MinceR	(and next to it it also has a micro-HDMI port)
[22:39]	DaemonFC[m]	So Microsoft is really getting a free lunch here, and that's why Chromium Edge is not terrible by their usual standards.
[22:39]	MinceR	microshit can still fuck it up
[22:39]	MinceR	it's their specialty
[22:41]	DaemonFC[m]	Although I kind of wonder why it currently doesn't support generating passwords considering Chrome has had that feature for a long time.
[22:49]	DaemonFC[m]	MinceR: I hear that they may end up getting the Intel graphics driver and teh Cyperpunk 2077 binaries into some sort of shape to where you will eventually be able to play it on Intel Xe graphics, like what my laptop has.
[22:49]	DaemonFC[m]	There was a guy on Youtube showing it off on Skylake Mobile, and it managed 10-12 fps.
[22:50]	DaemonFC[m]	But when he started the game on Tiger Lake with Xe graphics, it just crashed. 
[22:51]	DaemonFC[m]	If an Intel HD 520 can run it at ~10 fps, then I suspect as long as you don't get crazy with the visuals, 30-40 fps is theoretically possible on Tiger Lake.
[22:51]	DaemonFC[m]	Intel has been putting out new drivers like crazy for Windows to deal with Tiger Lake issues.
[22:52]	DaemonFC[m]	The one that went out yesterday mostly took time to fix less than optimal performance with DirectX 9 stuff though, oddly.
[22:53]	DaemonFC[m]	The driver Windows Update tries to give you is a little bit crusty.
[22:54]	DaemonFC[m]	Honestly, if the Windows driver is in a state like this, then I suspect Debian 11 may not even have new enough components to support things just right.
[22:57]	psydroid	That's ridiculous
[22:58]	psydroid	My laptop with Skylake is fast enough to do almost anything, but it has Ngreedia discrete graphics
[22:58]	DaemonFC[m]	Intel has been dribbling in Tiger Lake support into Linux for like half a dozen kernels now.
[22:59]	psydroid	With Intel machines the integrated graphics always get out of date much faster than the rest of the system
[22:59]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, the single threaded performance on the CPU side has been improved since Skylake, but the dramatic improvements are the Intel GPU performance and the overall power management and amount of heat that the laptop produces.
[22:59]	psydroid	Hopefully with newer generations containing Xe graphics that will less often be the case
● Dec 20
[23:00]	DaemonFC[m]	And the U series is all quad core now, and you get hyperthreading as long as it's at least an i5.
[23:00]	DaemonFC[m]	So on the U series lineup, it's a night and day improvement over Skylake.
[23:04]	psydroid	I think my niece has an i5-8250U in her laptop and it will probably last her for several more years
[23:05]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, Apple transitioned away from Intel before major improvements came out.
[23:06]	DaemonFC[m]	The M1 is really about locking down the Mac more from the user and making them cheaper to build.
[23:08]	DaemonFC[m]	Microsoft's software on the Mac has historically been awkward.
[23:08]	DaemonFC[m]	It's usually a totally different codebase than Windows, and so even things like Office compatibility issues show up even though both are called Microsoft Office.
[23:09]	DaemonFC[m]	The last CPU transition caught them totally off guard and they were a PPC binary for years.
[23:09]	psydroid	Which is understandable but locks them out of running anything else unless special efforts are being made to reverse engineer drivers and port/write those to/for other operating systems
[23:10]	DaemonFC[m]	Someone will port Linux to the M1, but I doubt it will work well, especially the graphics performance.
[23:12]	DaemonFC[m]	Given how Apple just cuts you off at some point relatively soon after you buy it and then new software stops working, this is a major problem with the new Macs.
[23:12]	DaemonFC[m]	I think that huge changes to Windows are basically finished.
[23:13]	psydroid	Microsoft doesn't seem to be very agile when it comes to new hardware architectures and operating systems, as if it's in their DNA to have a stuck mindset
[23:13]	DaemonFC[m]	Yeah, which is probably why Intel only dropped slightly on the news of Microsoft designing ARM processors.
[23:13]	vZS1	Microsoft don't really develop. They acquire
[23:13]	DaemonFC[m]	Nobody is interested in Windows on ARM.
[23:13]	vZS1	That's always been the business model
[23:14]	vZS1	Why would you want to put bloat on low-resource hardware?
[23:15]	DaemonFC[m]	They keep trying  to cut Windows down to where it only runs limited apps and shove an ARM version out.
[23:15]	DaemonFC[m]	But nobody bites.
[23:15]	DaemonFC[m]	So they shoved the Windows Store to the side and accepted reality that nobody is going to use that as their main source for programs.
[23:17]	DaemonFC[m]	Many people were upset at the removal of the 16-bit VDM stuff.
[23:17]	DaemonFC[m]	Even the US federal government uses some DOS programs.
[23:18]	vZS1	Legacy
[23:18]	vZS1	The hardest thing to get rid of
[23:18]	psydroid	I'm looking at it from a different perspective
[23:19]	psydroid	Initiate an architecture transition once every 10 years and Microsoft won't be able to keep up and might eventually have to fold
[23:20]	MinceR	21 001543 < DaemonFC[m]> So they shoved the Windows Store to the side and accepted reality that nobody is going to use that as their main source for programs.
[23:20]	MinceR	so, is UWP dead already?
[23:20]	vZS1	psydroid: they'll just run in VMs
[23:20]	vZS1	Look at COBOL
[23:20]	vZS1	Still alive
[23:21]	DaemonFC[m]	<MinceR "so, is UWP dead already?"> It's still there but I doubt anyone uses it.
[23:22]	vZS1	Business systems seldom migrate
[23:22]	DaemonFC[m]	For starters, most people pirate software and the software there is quite expensive.
[23:22]	vZS1	They get built once and then all you use is duct tape
[23:23]	DaemonFC[m]	The natural thing to want to do as a developer is scream about pirates, but it's a fact of life.
[23:23]	DaemonFC[m]	If you developed a perfect system of DRM that absolutely never failed, somehow, it wouldn't put money into people's wallets. They might find some other program to use instead.
[23:23]	DaemonFC[m]	So you never would convert 100% of piracy into sales.
[23:24]	DaemonFC[m]	Maybe 10-20% if you were lucky.
[23:24]	DaemonFC[m]	Office 2019 DRM is probably cracked by somebody, but just having it there with the high prices is what's driving a lot of people over to LibreOffice.
[23:25]	DaemonFC[m]	They can't cope with shelling out three hundred dollars for a copy of MS Office that's only going to give them a few more years until they have to buy it again.
[23:25]	vZS1	Hiking prices is what drives to piracy in the first place
[23:26]	DaemonFC[m]	It is. Few people would have bothered with web rips until Netflix got to $14.99 a month.
[23:26]	DaemonFC[m]	That's more expensive than it was to have their DVD by mail service before streaming.
[23:26]	vZS1	If Netflix was sub-$10 a month, everyone would just pay for it
[23:26]	vZS1	Almost everyone at least
[23:27]	DaemonFC[m]	$14.99 a month is over $180 a year, because they take sales tax too.
[23:27]	DaemonFC[m]	The state creates a fiction where you're buying something so that it can put in a 9% tax.
[23:27]	vZS1	Don't forget they limit how many devices you can watch on
[23:27]	DaemonFC[m]	So really over $200 a year.
[23:27]	psydroid	I don't know if you read anything in the news about this, but I'm wondering if systems coming with Windows are relatively in decline
[23:27]	psydroid	https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/worldwide-pc-market-Q3-2020
[23:27]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Canalys Newsroom- Canalys: Tablets and Chromebooks the new hotspots for growth in the PC market
[23:28]	DaemonFC[m]	When I was a kid, parents just rented a Disney movie on a video tape or something.
[23:28]	DaemonFC[m]	Ran off copies on blank tapes for them and the extended family, and the folks at work with kids.
[23:28]	DaemonFC[m]	It was like a slow and crude form of internet file sharing.
[23:28]	DaemonFC[m]	The stuff got around, there was major piracy.
[23:29]	DaemonFC[m]	Absolutely nobody would have entertained the thought of paying Disney $100 a year, much less when you considered that there were half a dozen other streaming apps all costing more than that.
[23:30]	DaemonFC[m]	It's part of what's making people broke.
[23:30]	vZS1	They're digging their own grave by not pricing reasonably (:
[23:31]	psydroid	Fewer desktops are being sold and prices have become quite high, making me wonder if they are trying to compensate for lower numbers of sold desktop components
[23:31]	vZS1	Don't believe the stats
[23:32]	vZS1	The samples are shite
[23:32]	vZS1	Plenty of people still building PCs
[23:32]	vZS1	Even non-tech types
[23:32]	psydroid	But as many as before?
[23:33]	vZS1	Can't say
[23:33]	vZS1	Look at sales across retailers
[23:33]	vZS1	Best way to usually tell
[23:34]	vZS1	CPUs, Motherboards, PSUs, GPUs
[23:34]	vZS1	That kind of thing
[23:34]	vZS1	Cases
[23:35]	vZS1	There's a lot of propaganda out there
[23:35]	vZS1	They'd love people to believe PCs are on the decline
[23:35]	vZS1	When there's no evidence supporting that
[23:37]	vZS1	Check the thousands of units of RAM sold daily on eBay
[23:38]	DaemonFC[m]	https://liliputing.com/2016/09/dont-see-cheap-windows-devices-8gb-ram-specs-cheap-windows-licenses.html
[23:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-This is why you don't see cheap Windows devices with 8GB of RAM (specs for cheap Windows licenses) - Liliputing
[23:38]	DaemonFC[m]	"Max 32 GB SSD/eMMC is the real problem. This makes the devices almost unusable with windows over time. Annoying updates (not enough free space) and the necessity to check / free the the file system on regular bases."
[23:38]	DaemonFC[m]	Someone else replies: "Nope the problem is the 2GB of RAM. I have a Lenovo Yoga with 2GB of RAM and 32GB eMMC. The storage I can live with but the lack of RAM means that even browsing causes the machine to groan. The cursor becomes Uncontrollable and the touchscreen becomes a ferociously tapscreen. And yes I have tried various browsers with no addons installed."
[23:39]	vZS1	Buy expandable hardware?
[23:40]	vZS1	People moaning about devices without enough memory or disk shouldn't buy devices with fixed memory and disk
[23:41]	psydroid	I got a used laptop with a Celeron N3060, 8 GB of RAM and 128 GB M.2 SATA SSD at the start of the year for 75
[23:41]	vZS1	Nice
[23:42]	psydroid	Of course it came with Bloatware, but I installed GNU/Linux on it and now I have Haiku running on it
[23:42]	vZS1	I buy phones from generic Chinese manufacturers. I can expand the memory card to several hundred gigabytes and change the batteries.
[23:43]	vZS1	Meanwhile, people buying designer phones can't even change their battery
[23:43]	psydroid	If people realise they shouldn't buy those really crappy laptops with 2 GB of RAM and 32 GB of eMMC, the stores wouldn't even try to sell them
[23:44]	psydroid	I saw them too being sold a few years ago but found 200 a steep price for something that can only be considered a toy
[23:44]	psydroid	You're better off with a Chromebook at that price point
[23:45]	vZS1	Or just get a SBC and hook it up to your TV
[23:45]	psydroid	That's what I do, yes
[23:49]	vZS1	There's so many good SBCs out there
[23:49]	vZS1	You should never have to get a crappy laptop unless you really need the form factor
[23:50]	vZS1	Even then, you're better off getting just a cheap device that you can forward X over to a real working machine at home
[23:51]	psydroid	And if you don't know if something is good or not, just ask a friend or a relative
[23:51]	psydroid	That's literally what I did a decade ago
[23:52]	vZS1	Yeah
[23:52]	vZS1	These days you get netbooks that are cheap
[23:52]	vZS1	You can use that to forward X
[23:52]	psydroid	I have a fairly powerful laptop now, but if I need more compute power I will just build a desktop/workstation/server for the heavy lifting
[23:52]	vZS1	Then have a beefy system at home doing all the hard work
[23:53]	vZS1	Yep
[23:53]	vZS1	That's the best thing to do
[23:53]	vZS1	Don't fall for the overpriced laptop gimmick
[23:54]	vZS1	Your current laptop should last you over a decade as a remote terminal
[23:55]	psydroid	My current main laptop is only my second in two decades with a few used ones to run other operating systems for visitors
[23:55]	psydroid	My previous one did last for a decade
[23:59]	vZS1	You can even play demanding games remotely
[23:59]	vZS1	Steam has been doing this for a while now