Join us now at the IRC channel.
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Plasma 5.19 on openSUSE Tumbleweed http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/138997 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b5906ac1-589e-410d-9d2f-dc94cbfbd8af] | Jun 22 00:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New Game Titles on GNU/Linux and New Video http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/138998 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dfa310e7-67a3-45f7-822a-acc453d1df8c] | Jun 22 00:20 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Foreseeing Trisquel 9 - Will Win Old and Modern Computers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/138999 [https://pleroma.site/objects/33ed6db3-445f-449f-a0ef-528cf0ebf423] | Jun 22 00:25 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139000 [https://pleroma.site/objects/37f51090-64e8-40e6-a172-b71bf2b77fcf] | Jun 22 00:32 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: We bought Walmart’s $140 laptop so you wouldn’t have tohttp://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139001 [https://pleroma.site/objects/46f6b23a-4fa2-4b8c-bcfc-8c26863cbea9] | Jun 22 00:38 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LibreOffice 7.0 Beta 2 is available for testing http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139002 [https://pleroma.site/objects/06a3cfa0-514f-4df6-bf1b-fc9d5e75fd16] | Jun 22 00:43 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139003 [https://pleroma.site/objects/23bbbf85-1c8b-44a7-8d49-fc1dffee2b22] | Jun 22 00:50 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: WireGuard Support Merged Into Upstream OpenBSD http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139004 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d7b77bfb-8119-44e5-b67f-8ddaaa4981bb] | Jun 22 00:53 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: dav1d 0.7.1, GNOME, Strawberry and Tuir http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139005 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5d40640f-997b-4e15-837f-fdf3f224d42c] | Jun 22 00:55 | |
| MinceR | (cat) (audio) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/06/20/520117b553e38727.mp4 | Jun 22 01:07 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux 5.8-rc2 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139006 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2994429a-7942-4f04-a5c2-6e61c7b24011] | Jun 22 01:29 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139007 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1951bea1-a9ee-47ac-a854-9d24c0cf4ac6] | Jun 22 01:30 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Review: Devuan GNU+Linux 3.0.0 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139008 [https://pleroma.site/objects/20f30b5a-8f93-4b52-8805-9ac89d55c97b] | Jun 22 01:33 | |
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| schestowitz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iI3joR25V0 | Jun 22 03:32 |
| schestowitz | lol | Jun 22 03:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump's Tulsa Rally was an epic failure! - YouTube | Jun 22 03:32 | |
| schestowitz | "one million people wanted to go" | Jun 22 03:32 |
| schestowitz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of1WwRuvZic | Jun 22 03:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Loser Trump after Failed Rally - YouTube | Jun 22 03:37 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: really looking at the pictures and knowing how it should look with social distancing its not right. Remember 1 person per 4 square metres of floor space. Works out that every second row in a stadium can have a person at max. | Jun 22 03:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically there are enough people in that video that the stadium with current socal distancing should been almost full. | Jun 22 03:40 |
| oiaohm | Trump Tulsa Rally in 2 weeks time are we going to be looking at a trump caused covid-19 spike. | Jun 22 03:41 |
| oiaohm | Stupid at is sounds if Trumps staffer had done social distanting right it would have looked somewhere near decent. | Jun 22 03:43 |
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| oiaohm | Yes may have required overflow in fact. | Jun 22 03:44 |
| schestowitz | but remember.. | Jun 22 04:07 |
| schestowitz | This was set up by dumb people | Jun 22 04:08 |
| schestowitz | to attract dumb people | Jun 22 04:08 |
| schestowitz | to them, masks are a plot of "Democrats" to embarrass him | Jun 22 04:08 |
| insmodppa | By that logic they should abolish the healthcare industry. If you don't test for diseases, there won't be any diseases! | Jun 22 04:17 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | I ran into some Monkey's Audio files. | Jun 22 05:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I updated the (proprietary) Monkey's Audio codec I keep around to get data out of it and into a Free format. | Jun 22 05:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Converting them to WavPack. | Jun 22 05:37 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | <insmodppa "By that logic they should abolis"> He's trying. | Jun 22 05:41 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: I've come up with a simple way to keep a lot of garbage from hitting my computer in the first place. Take a look at how effective the lossless compression was compared to the runtime of the CD. | Jun 22 08:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The more effective the compression was, the less likely it's louder than hell. | Jun 22 08:16 |
| AVRS | schestowitz: what are dnms? | Jun 22 08:30 |
| schestowitz | direct messages, I meant DMs | Jun 22 08:30 |
| schestowitz | I forgot what I was doing when I get those | Jun 22 08:30 |
| AVRS | Always called them /msgs on IRC. | Jun 22 08:30 |
| AVRS | or PMs. | Jun 22 08:31 |
| schestowitz | yeah | Jun 22 08:31 |
| schestowitz | people change terms over time | Jun 22 08:31 |
| schestowitz | PMs is misnomer | Jun 22 08:31 |
| schestowitz | the P stands for private | Jun 22 08:31 |
| AVRS | OK. | Jun 22 08:31 |
| schestowitz | direct doesn't even pretend you have privacy, see Twitter | Jun 22 08:31 |
| AVRS | personal message | Jun 22 08:31 |
| schestowitz | schestowitz.com/PGP | Jun 22 08:31 |
| AVRS | You don't have https | Jun 22 08:32 |
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| schestowitz | no, not enabled | Jun 22 08:33 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What is Swap Memory in Linux? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139009 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a5fe8f06-edc7-4f7f-a7ba-d7b097b70b85] | Jun 22 08:37 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What is RedHat OpenShift? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139010 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e73df411-43fc-4bb7-9c4a-de19a13dde2d] | Jun 22 08:38 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139011 [https://pleroma.site/objects/834d6f2f-02c6-481d-bece-834575ae9a8f] | Jun 22 08:39 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Getting Started with NetBSD on the Pinebook Pro http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139012 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e34bcdbf-f0f1-418c-b91f-838fcb7d31ca] | Jun 22 09:09 | |
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| MinceR | (cat) (no audio) https://i.imgur.com/AT4FH2x.mp4 | Jun 22 12:23 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Jitsi Meet: A Free & Open Source Video Conferencing Solution That is Also Free to Use Without Any Set Up http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139013 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7ad22a79-d04e-43b4-97c6-92811aa617b9] | Jun 22 12:25 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 7 open source alternatives to VS Code http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139014 "the version you download from Microsoft is not open source" and it's #spyware [https://pleroma.site/objects/93241123-6757-4c04-af6e-d5ca589bf1aa] | Jun 22 12:28 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mastodon Fun - Sharing Free Software and Ubuntu Touch Together http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139015 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d6caf994-fb73-4814-99c8-2a39c946f102] | Jun 22 12:30 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Mastodon Fun - #Sharing #FreeSoftware and #UbuntuTouch Together http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139015 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8ccd5006-04c5-459c-aeb5-c78d05f43046] | Jun 22 12:30 | |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: nice | Jun 22 12:36 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Calculate Linux 20.6 Released: A Gentoo-Based Optimized Distro http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/138994#comment-25568 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8de99c9c-a65c-4b61-be8c-9eee56cb308b] | Jun 22 13:07 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139016 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4a6e9f1e-88f3-4c7d-9b7c-b91a70647ad2] | Jun 22 13:09 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: NVIDIA, VulkanRT, AMD and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139018 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2da6dd3d-eb59-4f0f-b5b7-d1ed74857f13] | Jun 22 14:38 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LibreOffice 7.0 Beta2 is available for testing http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139002#comment-25570 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5b571a39-5a64-4345-bb0b-6807d3e5fa3f] | Jun 22 14:42 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux tools for improving your time management http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139019 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1a7e9a3e-9d92-4381-ae3f-53d23c9d8014] | Jun 22 14:53 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Civilization VI, Transport Fever 2, More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139020 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fe882b13-b83f-4f92-ba9e-1e9e71746bac] | Jun 22 14:59 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #GNOMEShell UX Plans: The Bigger Picture http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139021 #gnu #linux [https://pleroma.site/objects/d40c5164-af0d-40dd-9766-a366241881fc] | Jun 22 15:06 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139022 [https://pleroma.site/objects/55105906-486d-4e53-be9e-22f200035e25] | Jun 22 15:08 | |
| oiaohm | https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/7.0 this has got blunt with a notice if you are using MS Office 2010 and before you should install libreoffice. | Jun 22 15:14 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.documentfoundation.org | LibreOffice 7.0: Release Notes - The Document Foundation Wiki | Jun 22 15:14 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Easy Buster version 2.3.2 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139024 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5c81b800-ef7e-435d-9af4-9966320b84ae] | Jun 22 15:23 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Late Night Linux, GNU World Order and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139025 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1fb44fd5-ccd9-42e3-b0fc-3492ddd7b37c] | Jun 22 15:27 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU Projects: GNU Health, GNU Guile and Translations http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139026 [https://pleroma.site/objects/274a63f3-43d9-4880-8a01-6af3856a2208] | Jun 22 15:30 | |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 22 15:34 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139027 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c660fa0b-bf27-4966-aeed-36851be71183] | Jun 22 15:38 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open-Source NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2000 "Turing" 3D Driver Performance http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139023 [https://pleroma.site/objects/614e72ab-55ad-4db0-b24b-6347c29e114a] | Jun 22 15:40 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Perl/Raku Release and Other Picks http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139028 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4e64b58a-fd5a-4edb-9431-b71dfec2c1bb] | Jun 22 15:48 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Devices/Embedded With GNU/Linux and/or Open Hardware http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139031 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0d1c9bd0-66da-455c-a90c-34b05b7d8160] | Jun 22 16:00 | |
| psymin | Is there a cloud hosting service that you folks would recommend over the dominant ones? | Jun 22 16:07 |
| schestowitz | https://www.ubuntubuzz.com/2020/06/lets-compare-zorin-os-and-elementary-os.html | Jun 22 16:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.ubuntubuzz.com | Let's Compare Zorin OS and elementary OS | Jun 22 16:08 | |
| schestowitz | psymin: what is cloud? | Jun 22 16:08 |
| schestowitz | which services do you need? | Jun 22 16:09 |
| MinceR | devuanhosting, openbsd.amsterdam | Jun 22 16:09 |
| MinceR | hosting other people's computers, as a service | Jun 22 16:09 |
| schestowitz | psymin: what is cloud? baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more... | Jun 22 16:10 |
| oiaohm | psymin: cloud hosting is normally a fancy way of saying other people servers and hardware I don't control. | Jun 22 16:10 |
| psymin | Potentially a VPS, or if I'm not the one who ends up doing the work I guess web hosting with an end-user web interface. | Jun 22 16:10 |
| psymin | Yeah, I should have used more specific terminology, apologies. | Jun 22 16:11 |
| oiaohm | Lot of people do not do suitable risk assessment. | Jun 22 16:11 |
| psymin | I sure don't. | Jun 22 16:11 |
| oiaohm | psymin: https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/7/30/20747163/capital-one-data-hack-100-million-americans-new-york-investigation banks don't either all the time. | Jun 22 16:12 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Capital One hacker was former Amazon employee - Vox | Jun 22 16:12 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139032 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ef222c21-e022-44d7-908f-b1da42d69b63] | Jun 22 16:12 | |
| oiaohm | Yes that was a case of Amazon staff member going rogue. | Jun 22 16:12 |
| oiaohm | That is always a risk when using other people hardware that you have no control over. | Jun 22 16:13 |
| psymin | Correct. | Jun 22 16:14 |
| oiaohm | psymin: basically first thing before using any hosting service sit down and do a risk assessment on the information you will be hosting there. | Jun 22 16:14 |
| schestowitz | aren't even employed by you | Jun 22 16:14 |
| schestowitz | don't do your paperwork | Jun 22 16:14 |
| schestowitz | don't follow your authorisation rules | Jun 22 16:14 |
| schestowitz | "trust company X, they must be good, the media keeps mentioning their brand" | Jun 22 16:14 |
| oiaohm | I cannot name a service provider of web services that has run for over 10 years that has not had something go horrible wrong on them at some point. | Jun 22 16:15 |
| psymin | It is tricky to "roll your own" for every link in the chain. There must be some facets that are more trusted than others. | Jun 22 16:15 |
| oiaohm | Its tricky for you to roll your own and it tricky for every service provide to roll their own and get it right. | Jun 22 16:16 |
| psymin | I'm looking for less-bad options, not perfect options. | Jun 22 16:16 |
| oiaohm | Remember we have had VM exploits and other things as well. | Jun 22 16:16 |
| oiaohm | The starting point to be correct is always a proper risk assessment on the data what you are going to be handling is. | Jun 22 16:17 |
| psymin | Currently suggested options for this project are GoDaddy and AWS. So, I'd like to offer some better suggestions :) | Jun 22 16:17 |
| oiaohm | Question have you checked your countries laws with the data you will be handling. | Jun 22 16:18 |
| oiaohm | Some cases you can be forced to use a provider that is your country or risk huge ass fines of bankrupting level 1000 times over. | Jun 22 16:19 |
| psymin | USA | Jun 22 16:19 |
| psymin | But it could be hosted elsewhere. | Jun 22 16:19 |
| psymin | The data isn't super sensitive. | Jun 22 16:19 |
| oiaohm | USA does have laws that you cannot host in particular countries as well due to them being in the banned export list. | Jun 22 16:20 |
| oiaohm | Of course GoDaddy/AWS for USA user is normally not lethal. | Jun 22 16:20 |
| scientes | if they advertised on Superbowl for years they must be american | Jun 22 16:22 |
| scientes | with big tits too | Jun 22 16:22 |
| oiaohm | psymin: https://www.rackspace.com/en-au/compliance rackspace I have seen people use as they do provide decent assistance with different compliance issues. | Jun 22 16:23 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Governance, Risk, & Compliance Services | Rackspace | Jun 22 16:23 | |
| scientes | they care more about locking down free internet countries than most other things | Jun 22 16:24 |
| oiaohm | psymin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation There are lots of different compliance things. The data you are putting up may not be that complex like the wrong usage of cookies and so on can get DNS servers around the world blackhole your site. | Jun 22 16:27 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | General Data Protection Regulation - Wikipedia | Jun 22 16:27 | |
| psymin | I forgot about GDPR | Jun 22 16:27 |
| oiaohm | and its not the only one. | Jun 22 16:28 |
| psymin | That isn't a facet that I'm currently focused on. | Jun 22 16:28 |
| oiaohm | Like are you going to take donations and how because that can add another stack of risk issues. | Jun 22 16:28 |
| oiaohm | All these things can put requirements on what your service provider you are going to choose has to provide you. | Jun 22 16:29 |
| psymin | The content, the user-facing stuff, that is definitely a thing to look at. I'm currently looking at the stuff the end user doesn't interact with. DNS, registrar, bandwidth, bare metal vs vps, companies that are freedom respecting. | Jun 22 16:29 |
| psymin | Whether we should have it hosted at a user's location where they have 24/7 physical access but are restricted by last-mile ISP. | Jun 22 16:30 |
| oiaohm | DNS registration where you are allowed to-do is a factor like USA registering there DNS in a country that on the no export export list that can be huge fines. | Jun 22 16:30 |
| oiaohm | Also freedom respecting is a sliding scale. | Jun 22 16:31 |
| psymin | I agree | Jun 22 16:31 |
| oiaohm | Like you don't want to be hosted with providers that say email spaming and running bot nets is fine because we have no restrictins what so ever. | Jun 22 16:32 |
| oiaohm | And places like that would most likely get you on the wrong side of USA law dealing with them. | Jun 22 16:32 |
| psymin | Correct | Jun 22 16:32 |
| oiaohm | So you want as much freedom as the law allows without having people black listing you all the time. | Jun 22 16:33 |
| oiaohm | That also comes down to costs. | Jun 22 16:33 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 22/6/2020: LibreOffice 7.0 Beta 2, EasyOS 2.3.2, Linux 5.8 RC2 http://techrights.org/2020/06/22/linux-5-8-rc2/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/c01dc016-88a7-4270-95c1-9147a6b292d5] | Jun 22 16:34 | |
| oiaohm | Virtual private server always means you are using a hypervisor and that is not without its problems. Linux kernel at times have had issues with particular workloads on VPS under different hypervisors. | Jun 22 16:35 |
| oiaohm | So the hosting hypervisor if you choose VPS might be a factor if you can use them or not. | Jun 22 16:35 |
| oiaohm | Also VPS has increased risk from hypervisor expoits that bare metal option does not have. Of course bare metal is more expensive in most cases. | Jun 22 16:37 |
| oiaohm | psymin: I guess you are starting to see why I cannot really start just recommending use X. There are regulation requirements, cost requirements and what you want to do requirements that all can rule in or out different providers. | Jun 22 16:38 |
| psymin | Yep. | Jun 22 16:38 |
| psymin | This isn't wikileaks level stuff. It is more like church-group stuff. | Jun 22 16:39 |
| scientes | jj | Jun 22 16:39 |
| psymin | The users who want the site are, anyway. | Jun 22 16:40 |
| oiaohm | Church groups can get into putting private information up there really quickly. | Jun 22 16:40 |
| oiaohm | and get into legal trouble really quickly with under aged information. | Jun 22 16:41 |
| oiaohm | I have had to deal with that one first hand psymin | Jun 22 16:41 |
| oiaohm | You cannot afford to take jobs like that lightly. | Jun 22 16:41 |
| oiaohm | psymin: the one I had was contracted to fix was after a kidnapping caused by wrong information being on their site and spending the time educate them on regulations and why it was required to do stuff X way. | Jun 22 16:42 |
| psymin | yikes | Jun 22 16:43 |
| oiaohm | So a church job sounds simple but it can be a path to very big legal trouble. Reason why I was contacted it the one that set it up was stuck in legal for negligence | Jun 22 16:43 |
| oiaohm | Risk assessment stage is not really optional. | Jun 22 16:44 |
| oiaohm | Its optional if you don't care about losing everything you own. | Jun 22 16:44 |
| psymin | So, if I say "Go ahead and just host your stuff on GoDaddy, I'm out" .. that would protect them? | Jun 22 16:44 |
| oiaohm | The answer is no. | Jun 22 16:45 |
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| oiaohm | The service providers are very smart in there contracts to put as much responsibility back on those who pay them to-do the right thing. | Jun 22 16:45 |
| schestowitz | [16:22] <scientes> if they advertised on Superbowl for years they must be american | Jun 22 16:46 |
| schestowitz | [16:22] <scientes> with big tits too | Jun 22 16:46 |
| oiaohm | Using GoDaddy/AWS.... the legal risk for putting the information up there is still on you. | Jun 22 16:46 |
| schestowitz | s/big/fake/ | Jun 22 16:46 |
| psymin | oiaohm, it sounds to me like it is better for me to walk away and let them take the fall | Jun 22 16:47 |
| psymin | Perhaps the end site, that I'm not thinking about making at the moment, just looking at infrastructure, is the issue you're addressing primarily. Could it just say "Don't use this site if you're not in USA, if you're a minor, etc." | Jun 22 16:48 |
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| oiaohm | psymin: with this stuff is really do the job right with the right level of training for them documented or not at all. | Jun 22 16:49 |
| oiaohm | If they are not willing to learn the rules of what they can and cannot place up they are not worth dealing with. | Jun 22 16:50 |
| psymin | With a budget of next to nothing, that is near impossible, unless the ideology aligns with existing professionals. | Jun 22 16:50 |
| psymin | Currently they're using non-free services, and still likely have all the liability you're referencing. | Jun 22 16:51 |
| oiaohm | Like churches USA I would guess they would have children "Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, or COPPA" so this would have to be taken into account. | Jun 22 16:51 |
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| oiaohm | This is what I am getting about you need to-do the risk assessment possible with legal assistance on what regulations do apply to what you are doing and what are the restrictions. | Jun 22 16:52 |
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| psymin | I understand your concern. I agree with your concern. My focus is not on what the user-facing stuff will look like, how they will use it, etc. I'm just trying to figure out how to steer them towards infrastructure that supports software freedom. | Jun 22 16:52 |
| psymin | I do believe that eventually we'll get to the point of how the user-facing stuff works, and what disclaimers and user restrictions and moderation is necessary. | Jun 22 16:53 |
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| oiaohm | Reality here is most service providers its in there best interest to get you using items that are not software freedom. So that you cannot change vendors. | Jun 22 16:55 |
| psymin | I agree. That is why I'd like to get them off on the right foot. So they can change vendors, change to better systems, change to bare metal, change providers, etc. Put the options in their hands. | Jun 22 16:56 |
| oiaohm | That is normally having one of your own staff assemble the VM/baremetal images in a close to a vendor netrual way. | Jun 22 16:57 |
| psymin | Yep. | Jun 22 16:57 |
| oiaohm | One of my big requirements that makes sure of this is must have a local server. | Jun 22 16:57 |
| oiaohm | As in backups from the cloud must be able to run locally with the internet. | Jun 22 16:58 |
| psymin | Exactly. | Jun 22 16:58 |
| oiaohm | Unfortunately this in lots of cases results in higher cost on AWS and the like because you cannot use their provided databases as simply. | Jun 22 16:59 |
| oiaohm | Basically having software freedom is going to come in a lot of cases as a cost to budget. | Jun 22 17:00 |
| oiaohm | In higher hosting costs and higher maintaince costs. | Jun 22 17:00 |
| psymin | Yeah, the "simple" way IMO was to use Amazon Linux 2 locally, on a VM host on baremetal locally, so it can work exactly the same on AWS as locally. But that distro, and Amazon in general, aren't great. | Jun 22 17:00 |
| oiaohm | That end up normally being arguement with accountancy department. | Jun 22 17:00 |
| oiaohm | and to win on it your normally need your risk assessment in order to justify it. | Jun 22 17:01 |
| psymin | This isn't an authoritarian structure. There are no PHBs. No collars or ties. | Jun 22 17:01 |
| oiaohm | That is a high risk area of running a website. | Jun 22 17:01 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Canonical Announces Ubuntu Appliance Portfolio http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/138813#comment-25575 [https://pleroma.site/objects/82e2f4eb-8e66-46c0-8bee-1edd47635d56] | Jun 22 17:01 | |
| oiaohm | Authoritarian structure is the simplest to make sure of legal compliance. | Jun 22 17:02 |
| psymin | I agree. | Jun 22 17:02 |
| oiaohm | I have seen a church employ a person who job was to run website with final say on what could go up that meant the website was Authoritarian structure even that everything else was not. | Jun 22 17:03 |
| oiaohm | Working out if legal compliance with is going to be possible if the answer is no that could completely scratch the project. | Jun 22 17:04 |
| psymin | That is definitely a requirement. A person or body definitely needs to have control, and a hierarchy of trust is necessary at some level. Like when it comes to money, and giving folks the ability to delete everything. | Jun 22 17:04 |
| psymin | oiaohm, maybe you'd like to volunteer :D | Jun 22 17:05 |
| oiaohm | Not in the country I am in. As I need to pay for at least 10 million dollars with of Insurance if I do it as a volunteer. | Jun 22 17:06 |
| psymin | ouch | Jun 22 17:06 |
| oiaohm | Of course a church that employee a staff memeber todo it has to pay the 10 milllion dollars in Insurance as well. | Jun 22 17:06 |
| psymin | Mind if I talk about a different topic for a bit? Ideology? | Jun 22 17:06 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security and Privacy Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139035 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b08f3004-55c7-4a6c-92f7-347501389f6a] | Jun 22 17:06 | |
| oiaohm | But they can get discounts on the costs due to joining it with their other insurnaces. | Jun 22 17:07 |
| oiaohm | psymin: you can change topics. I guess you are starting to see why risk assessment is first task. You need to know if you need insurance like that and what regulations apply and if people will agree todo what is required or not. | Jun 22 17:08 |
| psymin | I see why you see it as a first task. I see why it is important. I believe that unfortunately, this group needs better tools for discussing what they need/want before we can implement what they need/want. | Jun 22 17:09 |
| oiaohm | psymin: setting up website properly can cost over 15 thousand dollars in legal before you get coding or hosting providers or anything else. | Jun 22 17:09 |
| oiaohm | Remember what they want may be be legal todo. | Jun 22 17:10 |
| oiaohm | or may not be legal todo as well. | Jun 22 17:10 |
| psymin | I missed much of the systemd discussion when it started to happen. I must have been focused on other things. I have my own objections to it. Seems like folks here object to it as well. What are some common reasons? | Jun 22 17:10 |
| oiaohm | There are things I hate about systemd but the cgroups that systemd puts around services I find really useful when you have miss behaving services for some reason. | Jun 22 17:11 |
| psymin | my objections are generally "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". I like being able to grep logs. It also seems like there was some weird groupthink that pushed it through somehow? | Jun 22 17:11 |
| oiaohm | Lot of ways the init systems before systemd were broken. | Jun 22 17:12 |
| psymin | I cannot disagree there. | Jun 22 17:12 |
| oiaohm | So we need fix. | Jun 22 17:12 |
| oiaohm | systemd lots of ways is better than what we had. | Jun 22 17:12 |
| oiaohm | But its not as good as it could be. | Jun 22 17:13 |
| oiaohm | Like people complain about systemd not being scripts any more so they have to learn service files. I have had a huge number of mega screw ups caused over the years because X script for X distribution did not work on Y related distribution correctly. | Jun 22 17:14 |
| psymin | Understandable | Jun 22 17:14 |
| psymin | It is easy to write a script that "works for me" but fails in many ways | Jun 22 17:14 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the complains about systemd is human hate of change. | Jun 22 17:14 |
| psymin | I agree there. I also believe there must be some valid complaints. | Jun 22 17:15 |
| oiaohm | There are some genuine one like systemd like the lead developer not being the best person. | Jun 22 17:15 |
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| oiaohm | Having service files deciding to run as root because the name user was not known to the system instead of failing. | Jun 22 17:16 |
| oiaohm | Bugs like that. | Jun 22 17:16 |
| oiaohm | systemd is not bug free and the lead developer has not been the most helpful when they come up. | Jun 22 17:16 |
| psymin | yikes | Jun 22 17:16 |
| oiaohm | Ok still better than sysvinit where the lead developer disappear for 10 years. | Jun 22 17:17 |
| oiaohm | and all CVE against sysvinit over that time frame went totally not fixed with sysvint. | Jun 22 17:17 |
| oiaohm | So level of yikes here all round is kind of on another level. | Jun 22 17:18 |
| oiaohm | Of course the level of yikes is really not as bad as the windows svchost system. | Jun 22 17:21 |
| psymin | Has techrights been attacked yet by folks who see meritocracy as sin? | Jun 22 17:23 |
| oiaohm | psymin: that would be schestowitz and his hosting provider question to answer. I know they have had attacks but reason not exactly sure of. | Jun 22 17:26 |
| psymin | Thoughts on folks like ESR and RMS being "taken down a peg" within their communities? | Jun 22 17:29 |
| oiaohm | That is absolutely not as straight forwards. As the legal systems are starting to catch up with the Internet those in charge of important groups really do need to have a clean background. | Jun 22 17:31 |
| psymin | What does "clean" mean in this context? | Jun 22 17:31 |
| oiaohm | legally clean background. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Controversies RMS has said many things over the years that don't aline with the letter of the law same. I know RMS stuff more than ESR. | Jun 22 17:36 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Richard Stallman - Wikipedia | Jun 22 17:36 | |
| oiaohm | Now if you are going to argue with law you cannot really be in charge of a organisation. Because when you are in charge of staff you are meant to make sure the law is followed. Having a counter point of view to law can cause big legal trouble long term. | Jun 22 17:37 |
| psymin | rule of law is important | Jun 22 17:38 |
| psymin | it sounds like RMS didn't violate rule of law, but used protected speech to voice an unpopular opinion. I don't agree with his opinion. | Jun 22 17:40 |
| psymin | Am I missing something important? | Jun 22 17:40 |
| oiaohm | It was not just a unpopular opinion it was a unpopular opinion that did not match the letter of the law define. | Jun 22 17:41 |
| oiaohm | The law define what rape and pedophile.... is. If you have a different idea on that you really cannot be in a management role. Or if something happens you will be claimed that you covered it up. | Jun 22 17:42 |
| oiaohm | Its not that you cannot be employed with counter to law ideas just you really cannot be management. | Jun 22 17:43 |
| psymin | I, for example, believe some laws should be changed. My assumption is that most people believe some laws should be changed. | Jun 22 17:44 |
| psymin | Does having opinions about how the law should be changed make people unfit for leadership positions? | Jun 22 17:44 |
| MinceR | 22 183741 < oiaohm> Now if you are going to argue with law you cannot really be in charge of a organisation. | Jun 22 17:46 |
| MinceR | so how do lobby organizations work? | Jun 22 17:46 |
| psymin | ^ | Jun 22 17:46 |
| oiaohm | Fairly much does unfortantly. The problem is if something happens that the person in the leadership position says they don't believe in that directly come evidence to possible cover up by. | Jun 22 17:46 |
| MinceR | i haven't heard of too many of them that had "let's keep the law the way it is" as their mission | Jun 22 17:46 |
| oiaohm | Most lobby organizations the person techically at the top claim to absolute believe in the law. | Jun 22 17:46 |
| MinceR | 22 184242 < oiaohm> The law define what rape and pedophile.... is. | Jun 22 17:47 |
| oiaohm | They employ staff who argue. | Jun 22 17:47 |
| MinceR | these are not exclusively legal terms | Jun 22 17:47 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Google’s Nearby Sharing and sndcpy on GNU/Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139039 [https://pleroma.site/objects/264f6310-6879-4f60-8ce7-8c95134bd64d] | Jun 22 17:47 | |
| oiaohm | So organizations can change law they have a horrible particular way they lay out their staff todo it. | Jun 22 17:47 |
| psymin | What if a group is so small, as to not have "staff"? | Jun 22 17:48 |
| psymin | nm, irrelevant and distracting, sorry | Jun 22 17:48 |
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| oiaohm | psymin: that why you can contract laywers and lobby groups. | Jun 22 17:48 |
| oiaohm | Asking a laywer/lobby group to look into a law if it can be improved for you company is not having you as management argue with it. | Jun 22 17:50 |
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| psymin | Is the issue just "optics" then? Or is the issue that RMS's "activism" extended beyond the mission of the FSF? | Jun 22 17:51 |
| oiaohm | RMS activism extends part FSF objectives by a large margin. At times into areas that could problematic for a person in a mangement role. | Jun 22 17:51 |
| oiaohm | part/past | Jun 22 17:51 |
| oiaohm | The difference between being management and general staff is quite a important thing. | Jun 22 17:52 |
| psymin | Perhaps if he were the head of another group, that aligned with all of his activism, it would be a non-issue? | Jun 22 17:52 |
| MinceR | perhaps if we healed our society and as part of it abolished the state, it would be a non-issue | Jun 22 17:53 |
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| psymin | hehe, abolishing the state is a pretty big issue. Would rule of law be possible? | Jun 22 17:53 |
| MinceR | rule of law is already nonexistent | Jun 22 17:53 |
| MinceR | rule of law was conceived to protect citizens from the state, and it failed | Jun 22 17:54 |
| MinceR | the only thing that can protect us from the state is the abolition of the state | Jun 22 17:54 |
| oiaohm | Being head of another group would not fix RMS issues because you cannot align with all his activism and legal requirements for managers. | Jun 22 17:54 |
| psymin | With an abolished state, many folks who have come to rely upon it for physical safety will be left vulnerable. | Jun 22 17:54 |
| oiaohm | Of course there are many ways not to legally be the head. its like x.org being under Software Freedom Conservancy this allows x.org developers at times to have nasty ideas because they are not the management that issues have to be reported to. | Jun 22 17:55 |
| MinceR | folks should arm themselves and organize on a voluntary basis | Jun 22 17:55 |
| psymin | oiaohm, again, this is primarily an optics issue not a legal one I assume. | Jun 22 17:56 |
| psymin | It isn't illegal for a manager to publicly say "I don't like taxes" | Jun 22 17:56 |
| MinceR | seems more like a "how do rich and powerful people who don't want you to fix society fuck you over and prevent you from doing so" | Jun 22 17:56 |
| oiaohm | but management of a company saying you don't like taxes being audited found to have made a tax mistake the tax office now gets to presume intentional. | Jun 22 17:57 |
| psymin | Sure, they will be targeted for being vocal. That is unavoidable. | Jun 22 17:57 |
| oiaohm | Management gets down right restrictive what you are allowed to say without having issues. | Jun 22 17:57 |
| psymin | That is currently one of the biggest issues I see in society today. | Jun 22 17:57 |
| oiaohm | Having managment and PR split can be very important. | Jun 22 17:58 |
| MinceR | maybe that's how people like zemlin get to lead organizations like the LF | Jun 22 17:58 |
| MinceR | and then sabotage them from the inside | Jun 22 17:58 |
| MinceR | but of course if your organization is on the side of the establishment and you're rich and powerful enough, you will never be "found to have made a tax mistake" | Jun 22 17:59 |
| oiaohm | That is not true. | Jun 22 17:59 |
| oiaohm | The difference is if you are found to have made a tax mistake you will be allowed to pay the difference without interest or fines for the mistake. | Jun 22 18:00 |
| oiaohm | Interest and fines on a tax mistake because they take the like you are tax avoiding can make the amount of tax you did not pay look like nothing. | Jun 22 18:00 |
| MinceR | if your organization is doing well enough, it might even be declared a "church" and be exempt from taxes | Jun 22 18:01 |
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| oiaohm | I keep on forgoting the USA system allows churchs to be tax free. | Jun 22 18:02 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Australian system Church to avoid tax has to be doing charitable work and be operating not for profit to absolutely avoid tax. Of course a not for profit group that is not a church doing charitable work gets the same tax rules. | Jun 22 18:06 |
| MinceR | who decides what is "charitable"? | Jun 22 18:07 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LibreOffice Community and GSoC Students http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139042 [https://pleroma.site/objects/66ac2638-aace-47d5-80ae-8ab38f60c951] | Jun 22 18:11 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GStreamer 1.17.1 unstable development release http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139043 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bcd3c5a0-9975-4ee8-a612-85a91ecd645c] | Jun 22 18:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Microsoft Director Enters Board of Mozilla http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139044 [https://pleroma.site/objects/94ae87b9-1b4c-45fd-a0d4-1a35e576ccae] | Jun 22 18:28 | |
| schestowitz | charity-funded officials, MinceR | Jun 22 18:41 |
| schestowitz | ask BillG | Jun 22 18:41 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139045 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3b762962-fc3a-4cd7-aedc-782bc21e13f9] | Jun 22 18:42 | |
| MinceR | :> | Jun 22 18:42 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/mozilla-microsoft.jpg | Jun 22 18:50 |
| cybrNaut | in the US some orgs split into two b/c they do charitable things as well as not so charitible things. E.g. ACLU and NRA. You can make a tax-deductible donation to either, or you can make a non-tax deductible donation to toward there non-charitible (but generally more effective) activities | Jun 22 18:55 |
| cybrNaut | i have no idea how NRA manages to have any part that is a tax-deductible charity | Jun 22 18:56 |
| psymin | Yep | Jun 22 18:57 |
| MinceR | human rights advocacy? :> | Jun 22 19:01 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla Hires From Microsoft for Mozilla’s Board http://techrights.org/2020/06/22/mozilla-board/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/897074f8-9bcf-42a9-8d31-62965992f0d5] | Jun 22 19:02 | |
| cybrNaut | a long-ass time ago the NRA was truly a gun safety advocacy org. I could see that being "charitible".. but these days they're purely about fighting gun restrictions and putting republican scumbags in office | Jun 22 19:04 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Partition Manager on openSUSE http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139046 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dd686335-60d8-4b31-a3c7-2b79a3730b01] | Jun 22 19:04 | |
| MinceR | https://files.catbox.moe/i9b5sa.png | Jun 22 19:06 |
| psymin | what the | Jun 22 19:08 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 55th TOP500 Supercomputer List Topped By Arm-Based Fujitsu A64FX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139047 [https://pleroma.site/objects/897a3b92-d988-4a9f-af10-511b29955671] | Jun 22 19:08 | |
| cybrNaut | i used to have a boss that would tell workers "you could fuck up a wet dream".. well, in this case of a boolean function, he'd be spot on | Jun 22 19:08 |
| cybrNaut | how does anyone fuck that up | Jun 22 19:09 |
| MinceR | :> | Jun 22 19:09 |
| psymin | I'm constantly impressed by how much I'm able to fuck things up. | Jun 22 19:10 |
| psymin | I should put it on my resume | Jun 22 19:10 |
| MinceR | i can only think of a few corporations where that's an ability they look for | Jun 22 19:13 |
| psymin | hehe | Jun 22 19:14 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139048 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5f084e77-3081-4d31-9cb2-9219bd68a530] | Jun 22 19:14 | |
| schestowitz | [17:51] <oiaohm> RMS activism extends part FSF objectives by a large margin. At times into areas that could problematic for a person in a mangement role. | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | The old "professionalism" nonsense | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | My boss supports Trump | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | and I still work for him | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | because bosses never agree with staff on everything | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | people need to grow up | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | if we can still say, "man uo" | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | *up | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | or "grow a pair" | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | These are attacks on free speech | Jun 22 19:18 |
| schestowitz | to prevent people in management position having ethical stances | Jun 22 19:18 |
| psymin | The ability to have civil disagreement is quite nice. | Jun 22 19:26 |
| cybrNaut | https://www.vice.com/en_asia/article/wxqdwb/restaurant-worker-says-she-was-fired-for-refusing-to-wear-trump-2020-mask | Jun 22 19:27 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Restaurant Worker Says She Was Fired for Refusing to Wear 'Trump 2020' Mask - VICE | Jun 22 19:27 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | It gets worse. They follow you home by paying "Facebook/Twitter narc" companies to record whatever you do publicly and tell them so they have warning if they're hiring an employee with the "wrong opinions" on something, away from work and on their own time. That's one reason to delete both Facebook and Twitter and not use them. | Jun 22 19:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The "wrong opinions" are anything that couldn't have appeared in an episode of Leave It to Beaver, and they're also some of the ones that Leave It to Beaver audiences wouldn't have thought anything about. The ideal candidate is one that votes for Republicans yet is a SJW at the same time, you see. | Jun 22 19:35 |
| schestowitz | doing another billg article | Jun 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | about the FOIA | Jun 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Hi Dr Roy | Jun 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Thanks for the response. Please have a look at the attached documents. They have advised me at Seattle PD that they will send these in installments and that it will take up to 8 months to receive all. However, I think what is attached should be of use. | Jun 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | I'm busy at present with a separate project, so feel free to follow up on these. | Jun 22 19:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The world is getting to the point where if you have strongly held opinions about anything, you bury those in some deep dark place where you never talk about them again. | Jun 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 22 19:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Job qualifications are just the right type of moral ambiguity followed in a distant second place about whether the person can/will do the job or even show up regularly. | Jun 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Might one inquire what the salary is for going through the Linux world deleting non-gender neutral terms and references to master/slave relationships? More importantly, can we convince management that there's no tool that makes such a thing easy and that it could take years? | Jun 22 19:39 |
| psymin | Is there a place on the internet for folks who are against this type of mob mentality? Won't those places get "cancelled" by the mob eventually? | Jun 22 19:39 |
| MinceR | most likely it's "getting to feel good about yourself" while the folks at microsloth reap the rewards | Jun 22 19:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: You mean the BIG BOOBIES Microsoft? | Jun 22 19:40 |
| MinceR | that one | Jun 22 19:40 |
| MinceR | also the one that makes noises about Linux having "fuck" in comments while Backdoors also has "fuck" in lots of comments | Jun 22 19:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | What about the people who like AWESOME BOOBAGE with their hyper-v driver? | Jun 22 19:41 |
| MinceR | same people | Jun 22 19:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Ministry of Truth really has their hands full with this one. The media has been playing along though. | Jun 22 19:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They slammed Microsoft over BIG BOOBIES and then praised them for imposing a CoC on everything. | Jun 22 19:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Naturally, we need to delete the BIG BOOBIES stuff so people only see the CoC. | Jun 22 19:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: Should we do what we usually do? Stick robots.txt on the BIG BOOBIES so Archive dot org deletes it and then remove the original? | Jun 22 19:43 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 22 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is all for tolerance | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | like putting LatinX babies in cages | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | for ICE | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | and bombing countries that aren't white | Jun 22 19:48 |
| psymin | tolerance of diversity of thought? | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | for JEDI money | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Nothing says "inclusiveness" better than bombing babies, women and children along with adult males | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla also supports diversity | Jun 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | diversity of allegiances | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | like... Microsoft | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | now Microsofters get to decide for Mozilla | Jun 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Phase II involves paying the media to put robots.txt on all the "Bing is full of child porn" articles now that MiniTrue has gone over it for real this time. | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | steering policy | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | bossing Mozilla staff | Jun 22 19:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I call it the Robot Rock strategy. | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | very good that they're diverse like that. The US Army should hire more general from china and russia | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | it would improve the US Army's diversity profile | Jun 22 19:49 |
| schestowitz | [19:49] <DaemonFC[m]> Phase II involves paying the media to put robots.txt on all the "Bing is full of child porn" articles now that MiniTrue has gone over it for real this time. | Jun 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | based on true story? | Jun 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | they did googlebomb the subject | Jun 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | around the time it was giving them a media headache | Jun 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah, the big question is about who will get JEDI and then either leak it or sell it to the Russians and Chinese. | Jun 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | <schestowitz "based on true story?"> I really hope not. Money talks though. They do manage to avoid criticism of Windows 10 in the mass media even though it's falling about and the only real question is which parts of it currently don't work at all. | Jun 22 19:52 |
| DaemonFC[m] | When you have money, nothing damaging appears in the mainstream press. If it does, it's coded to tar and feather whoever is causing them a problem without calling attention to it for anyone who isn't aware of it already. | Jun 22 19:54 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Like when Miguel de Icaza aid "a few anti-Mono blogs that were trying to cause trouble" then went full Vladimir Putin with "What about the Oracle Java lawsuit?". | Jun 22 19:55 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Java is a different issue entirely, of course. Oracle is not claiming patents, they're claiming that you can copyright an API and trying to pull a fast one on the courts, and Google left the door hanging open by trying to avoid the GPL (like Apple does). | Jun 22 19:56 |
| schestowitz | years ago he still attacked Java | Jun 22 19:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Android is extremely depressing. The whole platform is designed to let scumbags mine your phone for data, but the iPhone does that too and won't let you sideload apps. | Jun 22 19:57 |
| schestowitz | still with that old lawsuit (6 years at the time) as his "ammo" | Jun 22 19:57 |
| schestowitz | he was already a Microsoft employee at that point, IIRC | Jun 22 19:58 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: it's not the platform | Jun 22 19:58 |
| schestowitz | it's the devices | Jun 22 19:58 |
| schestowitz | so-called 'phones' | Jun 22 19:58 |
| schestowitz | it's crap.. with app | Jun 22 19:58 |
| schestowitz | people who rely on these will never become productive, only distracted constantly | Jun 22 19:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's in the platform too. Google lets apps sidestep the permissions system and interfere and spy on each other and the user by claiming they're meant for an older version of Android. | Jun 22 19:59 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So Facebook is for "Android 4.x" to get around the permissions and spy on your phone more than it could otherwise. Google has refused to step in and stop this, and that's one reason why the malware in the Play store (and elsewhere is so powerful. | Jun 22 20:00 |
| MinceR | "whatabout" | Jun 22 20:00 |
| MinceR | well, i'd advise people to steer clear both of obstacle java and microshit visual java | Jun 22 20:01 |
| MinceR | they're both atrocious products from atrocious corporations | Jun 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Redirect to someone else's bad behavior even if it doesn't bring up a point. | Jun 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Change where thr conversation is going. | Jun 22 20:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Google has a habit of stuffing things that barely work into Android, like that horrible vo-aacenc thing that their vendor stole and relabeled as open source. | Jun 22 20:03 |
| MinceR | apparently google also became a proponent of DRM | Jun 22 20:03 |
| DaemonFC[m] | All those files they pulled into Chromium where they didn't even know what the license was. | Jun 22 20:03 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Google does a lot of things that invite lawsuits and the real question is why it doesn't happen more often. | Jun 22 20:04 |
| *LarchOye has quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in) | Jun 22 20:47 | |
| *LarchOye (nonmoose@167.114.34.130) has joined #techrights | Jun 22 20:47 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: UBports GSI brings Ubuntu Touch to any Project Treble-supported Android device http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139051 [https://pleroma.site/objects/48d5b796-6b53-42be-8987-6d950875b50b] | Jun 22 20:59 | |
| *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights | Jun 22 21:01 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139050 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3db105db-7db3-4c4c-89e9-86500f18008a] | Jun 22 21:04 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 10 Best Linux Hardware and System Info Tools in 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139049 [https://pleroma.site/objects/83f9d2b8-03e3-416f-8f90-452acc2e72b7] | Jun 22 21:06 | |
| schestowitz | Folks... | Jun 22 21:13 |
| schestowitz | I need some help: | Jun 22 21:13 |
| schestowitz | https://cloud.email.thelinuxfoundation.org/Lf-newsletter-June-2020 | Jun 22 21:13 |
| schestowitz | what does this site run? | Jun 22 21:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cloud.email.thelinuxfoundation.org | NO TITLE | Jun 22 21:13 | |
| schestowitz | OS/server? | Jun 22 21:13 |
| schestowitz | I think XRevan86 is good at this kind of thing | Jun 22 21:14 |
| XRevan86 | Just finishing changing thermal paste on my laptop. Performed very poorly with graphics. Now it's fine. | Jun 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | we aanlysed their sites before | Jun 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | maybe checking on ports and responses | Jun 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | not nmap | Jun 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | this one is case insensitive | Jun 22 21:19 |
| schestowitz | and outsourced to some cloud | Jun 22 21:20 |
| schestowitz | so COULD be 'wintendo' | Jun 22 21:20 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Linux Headlines, Free Software and MX Linux 19.2 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139052 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0ef18ce8-035e-475c-a165-67d346541c6a] | Jun 22 21:21 | |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: I used nmap for this task last time, with -sV (version detection). | Jun 22 21:22 |
| XRevan86 | > 443/tcp open ssl/upnp Microsoft IIS httpd | Jun 22 21:22 |
| XRevan86 | Explains why there isn't much in HTTP headers :). | Jun 22 21:23 |
| schestowitz | are we sure? | Jun 22 21:24 |
| XRevan86 | A dogma: if you use some crap like IIS, please, please wrap it in nginx or something. | Jun 22 21:24 |
| schestowitz | how sure are we in this case? | Jun 22 21:24 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: No, it's heuristics, but I haven't seen it fail, so 99.9% | Jun 22 21:24 |
| XRevan86 | I wonder if there's verbose mode… | Jun 22 21:25 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Foundation: ELISA, Newsletter, and CNCF http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/139053 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ef905519-ba21-4c60-9c05-3cf136a6fd89] | Jun 22 21:26 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/07/17/we-are-the-windows-powered-linux-foundation/ | Jun 22 21:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Linux Foundation Apparently Celebrates Sysadmin Day With a Microsoft Windows Site! | Techrights | Jun 22 21:29 | |
| schestowitz | are these connected? Same 'cloud'? | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | > Warning: OSScan results may be unreliable because we could not find at least 1 open and 1 closed port | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | > Device type: load balancer|firewall | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | > Running (JUST GUESSING): F5 Networks TMOS 11.6.X|11.4.X (93%), F5 Networks embedded (87%) | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | > OS CPE: cpe:/o:f5:tmos:11.6 cpe:/o:f5:tmos:11.4 | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | > OS fingerprint not ideal because: Missing a closed TCP port so results incomplete | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | Aggressive OS guesses: F5 BIG-IP Local Traffic Manager load balancer (TMOS 11.6) (93%), F5 BIG-IP Edge Gateway (87%), F5 BIG-IP AFM firewall (87%) | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | > No exact OS matches for host (test conditions non-ideal). | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | Now these are definitely heuristics %) | Jun 22 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | Oh wait, I think I made it perform worse by setting a port (-p443) | Jun 22 21:30 |
| XRevan86 | trying "nmap -O -sSU cloud.email.thelinuxfoundation.org" | Jun 22 21:32 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: But it already seems like this is just the front. | Jun 22 21:33 |
| XRevan86 | Something like cloudfront, but from F5? | Jun 22 21:33 |
| schestowitz | does this run Windows at some level? | Jun 22 21:34 |
| schestowitz | front or back? | Jun 22 21:34 |
| schestowitz | the fronts/CDNs would rarely be windows | Jun 22 21:34 |
| schestowitz | but that's not what's important here | Jun 22 21:34 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: It is weird definitely, to see IIS used like this. | Jun 22 21:35 |
| XRevan86 | oh no, nmap is going to run for two hours | Jun 22 21:35 |
| schestowitz | is it safe to say Windows? | Jun 22 21:36 |
| schestowitz | or just "apparently"? | Jun 22 21:36 |
| schestowitz | I am finalising a blog post | Jun 22 21:36 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: I need to find some other way to tell if it's IIS or not, not just a blackbox script that just tells me it is. | Jun 22 21:37 |
| schestowitz | obfuscation is a security strategy, so we might never be 100% sure | Jun 22 21:37 |
| XRevan86 | I saw IIS giveaways somewhere | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | nm, I cracked it | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | <a alias=" Update Profile" conversion="false" data-linkto="other" href="https://click.email.thelinuxfoundation.org/profile_center.aspx?qs=fdf164119e51eca649aa0913724cdb7be4eb677c1fc1531b7cf65464d08ec641" style="color:#0099EE;text-decoration:none;font-weight:normal;line-height:100%;" title=" Update Profile"><span style="color:#2c3e50;">Update Profile</span></a><br> | Jun 22 21:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-click.email.thelinuxfoundation.org | NO TITLE | Jun 22 21:38 | |
| schestowitz | <br> | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | That tells me all I need to know | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | in the page source | Jun 22 21:38 |
| MinceR | :> | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | aspx | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Jun 22 21:38 |
| schestowitz | no "apparently" there | Jun 22 21:39 |
| XRevan86 | oh, that is way easier | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | publishing... | Jun 22 21:39 |
| MinceR | "linux" foundation | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | indeed | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | Linux Foundation Newsletter is Microsoft Windows and Proprietary IIS | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | Jun 22 21:39 | |
| schestowitz | <em>Only [cref 128565 About 4.72% of the Web Uses It], But the <a href="http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_Foundation" title="Linux Foundation">Linux Foundation</a>'s People are on Microsoft's Team and Use Windows in Other Web Services, Even to [cref 118544 Celebrate Sysadmin Day]</em> | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | Another major fluke from the not-so-Linux Foundation, which now promotes a Windows site in <a href="https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/2020/06/linux-foundation-newsletter-june-2020/" title="Linux Foundation Newsletter: June 2020">the Linux Foundation's Official Blog</a> and in <a href="https://www.linux.com/featured/linux-foundation-june-2020-newsletter/" title="Linux Foundation June 2020 Newsletter">Linux.com as well</a> (the Linux | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | Foundation Newsletter... is Windows) | Jun 22 21:39 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Linux Foundation - Techrights | Jun 22 21:39 | |
| MinceR | maybe they're using WSL on their "web server" :> | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | see if you spot a typo above | Jun 22 21:39 |
| XRevan86 | It could be .NET Core on Linux, but considering nmap's opinion… | Jun 22 21:39 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxfoundation.org | Linux Foundation Newsletter: June 2020 - The Linux Foundation | Jun 22 21:39 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Linux Foundation June 2020 Newsletter - Linux.com | Jun 22 21:39 | |
| XRevan86 | (still sucks, I know) | Jun 22 21:39 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: no | Jun 22 21:39 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: If it's IIS, it's IIS. | Jun 22 21:39 |
| schestowitz | maybe they run it from Zemlin's macbook | Jun 22 21:40 |
| schestowitz | with parallels and ubuntu 12.04 | Jun 22 21:40 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 22 21:40 |
| XRevan86 | No IIS outside of Windows as far as I am aware. | Jun 22 21:40 |
| schestowitz | (when Zemlin last gave L00nix a spin | Jun 22 21:40 |
| XRevan86 | "Internet Information Services" – is that what it stands for? what an incredibly lame name. | Jun 22 21:41 |
| MinceR | well, it _is_ microsoft... | Jun 22 21:41 |
| MinceR | lame names are their thing | Jun 22 21:42 |
| MinceR | well, one of their things | Jun 22 21:42 |
| schestowitz | it sounds enterprisy | Jun 22 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Like "IT" | Jun 22 21:43 |
| schestowitz | AYE TEA | Jun 22 21:43 |
| schestowitz | I am an "information officer" | Jun 22 21:44 |
| schestowitz | "what does that mean?" | Jun 22 21:44 |
| MinceR | well, it was probably named by a suit who didn't even know what the world wide web was | Jun 22 21:44 |
| schestowitz | "I deal... with HEY HI something and BIG DATA" | Jun 22 21:44 |
| MinceR | like "internet explorer" | Jun 22 21:44 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #LinuxFoundation Newsletter is #Microsoft #Windows and Proprietary #IIS http://techrights.org/2020/06/22/proprietary-iis-and-windows-foundation/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/63d4cdb5-4a2b-42fd-81a4-866be355028c] | Jun 22 21:54 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Opera's "VPN" is spyware, but I keep Opera installed because occasionlly I need to fool a download site into letting me run several downloads at once and sometimes they block Tor exit nodes, or Opera's VPN, but not both. | Jun 22 21:55 |
| schestowitz | ok, I'm done for the night | Jun 22 21:57 |
| schestowitz | waiting for vga adapter to come soon | Jun 22 21:57 |
| schestowitz | I lack site monitoring at the moment, adapter broken (my fault) | Jun 22 21:57 |
| schestowitz | gn | Jun 22 21:57 |
| psymin | What kind of hosting infrastructure does techrights utilize? | Jun 22 21:58 |
| XRevan86 | night | Jun 22 21:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm working on Ogg Vorbis. | Jun 22 22:05 |
| *AVRS (~AVRS@wikimedia/AVRS) has joined #techrights | Jun 22 22:05 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm altering the psymodel of the AoTuV encoder a bit. | Jun 22 22:05 |
| *factor (~factor@47-217-123-141.mskgcmta02.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) has joined #techrights | Jun 22 22:17 | |
| XRevan86 | > Device type: load balancer|firewall | Jun 22 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | > Running (JUST GUESSING): F5 Networks embedded (90%), F5 Networks TMOS 11.6.X|11.4.X (89%) | Jun 22 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | > OS CPE: cpe:/o:f5:tmos:11.6 cpe:/o:f5:tmos:11.4 | Jun 22 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | > OS fingerprint not ideal because: Host distance (25 network hops) is greater than five | Jun 22 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | > Aggressive OS guesses: F5 BIG-IP Edge Gateway (90%), F5 BIG-IP Local Traffic Manager load balancer (TMOS 11.6) (89%), F5 BIG-IP AFM firewall (86%) | Jun 22 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | > No exact OS matches for host (test conditions non-ideal). | Jun 22 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | The result hasn't changed much. | Jun 22 22:55 |
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