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| scientes | nobody here got my dark joke about Poland | Nov 23 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| scientes | presumably because their childhood's were better than mine | Nov 23 00:06 |
| MinceR | i was at work | Nov 23 00:07 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I said it was dark | Nov 23 00:09 |
| MinceR | were you likely to be eaten by a grue? | Nov 23 00:09 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I figured it's either the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact or Poland being a Slavic language fairly close to Russian but also heavily influenced by German. | Nov 23 00:10 |
| XRevan86 | * Polish | Nov 23 00:10 |
| scientes | Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact | Nov 23 00:11 |
| scientes | Poland as a country however (which was the subject) was of course before Russia and Germany | Nov 23 00:11 |
| scientes | Germany is a very modern concept | Nov 23 00:11 |
| scientes | does not exist when you read Goëthe's Faust | Nov 23 00:11 |
| scientes | Russia was also once an alliance between Russia and Georgia :) | Nov 23 00:12 |
| XRevan86 | Russia is a tricky beast, because modern Russia is just one branch of Rus' | Nov 23 00:12 |
| scientes | Russia was create by Napoleon, as is described in War and Peace | Nov 23 00:13 |
| XRevan86 | (literally Russia, but English don't have a distinction, and I can't think of a good-sounding one either) | Nov 23 00:13 |
| XRevan86 | * doesn't have | Nov 23 00:13 |
| scientes | Rus', there is a distinction | Nov 23 00:13 |
| scientes | s/Rus'/Ukraine' | Nov 23 00:13 |
| scientes | hahahahaha | Nov 23 00:13 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Now that's fat | Nov 23 00:13 |
| XRevan86 | "Russia was created by Napoleon" – eh, too subtle | Nov 23 00:14 |
| XRevan86 | I was thinking more in terms of Ivan III | Nov 23 00:14 |
| XRevan86 | for establishing Moscow as the centre of Russia | Nov 23 00:15 |
| scientes | What I noticed here is that older Goergians didn't speak their own language | Nov 23 00:15 |
| scientes | only Russian (and there is a Pushkin st) | Nov 23 00:16 |
| XRevan86 | either through economical means, good relations with Mongols or through straight up conquest | Nov 23 00:16 |
| scientes | which is different from Eastern Europe | Nov 23 00:16 |
| scientes | where they all kept their languages | Nov 23 00:16 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's because regional languages were dying off | Nov 23 00:16 |
| scientes | however at the time a strong language is really important | Nov 23 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | but in these countries there's governmental effort to reinstate local languages | Nov 23 00:17 |
| scientes | so Georgian wouldn't have done them much good | Nov 23 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | And discriminate Russian. Fair enough. | Nov 23 00:17 |
| scientes | XRevan86, you mean US-paid-for effort :) | Nov 23 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | Former English colonies kept English. Unfair! | Nov 23 00:17 |
| scientes | the Amish even managed to keep Dutch | Nov 23 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | English, Spanish and French got all the Geschäft | Nov 23 00:18 |
| XRevan86 | and Dutch | Nov 23 00:18 |
| scientes | and Portogueese | Nov 23 00:18 |
| scientes | Portugales | Nov 23 00:18 |
| scientes | which IMHO is just a bastardized version of Spanish | Nov 23 00:18 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't know either to tell. | Nov 23 00:19 |
| MinceR | 23 011758 < scientes> the Amish even managed to keep Dutch | Nov 23 00:19 |
| MinceR | german | Nov 23 00:19 |
| XRevan86 | And then there are different varieties of Spanish, like Catalonian. | Nov 23 00:19 |
| scientes | MinceR, Pennsylvania Dutch | Nov 23 00:19 |
| MinceR | the word "Dutch" comes from "Deutsch" | Nov 23 00:19 |
| scientes | XRevan86, of which Portugales is one | Nov 23 00:19 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Dialect vs. language is a very political topic. | Nov 23 00:19 |
| MinceR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Dutch | Nov 23 00:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Pennsylvania Dutch - Wikipedia | Nov 23 00:20 | |
| scientes | (and granted, Castillian is of course just another) | Nov 23 00:20 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: By standards of the Chinese (you won't let me lie) all Slavic languages qualify as dialects. | Nov 23 00:20 |
| scientes | XRevan86, indeed, Chinese... | Nov 23 00:20 |
| scientes | about to say same thing | Nov 23 00:20 |
| MinceR | the standards of the chinese depend on their political goals | Nov 23 00:20 |
| scientes | Arabic too is very diverse | Nov 23 00:20 |
| scientes | <MinceR> the standards of the chinese depend on their political goals | Nov 23 00:21 |
| scientes | well said | Nov 23 00:21 |
| XRevan86 | So yea, it's kind of amazing how the Russian language didn't share the same fate as English, Spanish, Dutch, French, Portuguese | Nov 23 00:21 |
| MinceR | afaik it's etymologically incorrect to call the Netherlandese "Dutch", but it happened anyway | Nov 23 00:21 |
| scientes | English and the germanic languages as different | Nov 23 00:21 |
| scientes | MinceR, indeed, Dutch and Neterlands are different | Nov 23 00:22 |
| scientes | and someone from there will be the first to tell you that | Nov 23 00:22 |
| scientes | well, someone from there 50+ years ago | Nov 23 00:22 |
| XRevan86 | Instead it is being actively phased out, even by almost extinct languages, in all countries that were former parts of the state, except Belarus and Kazakhstan. | Nov 23 00:23 |
| scientes | Europe is suck a fuck-land these days..... | Nov 23 00:23 |
| scientes | fuck-up-land | Nov 23 00:23 |
| MinceR | :> | Nov 23 00:23 |
| scientes | XRevan86, I met someone who knew Belarusian | Nov 23 00:23 |
| scientes | but that is rare | Nov 23 00:23 |
| XRevan86 | There are also two fashions of Belarusian %) | Nov 23 00:24 |
| scientes | Welsh is also still alive | Nov 23 00:24 |
| scientes | while Scottish and Irish are long dead | Nov 23 00:24 |
| XRevan86 | there was a spelling (and some other stuff) reform during Stalin's time | Nov 23 00:24 |
| XRevan86 | Anyways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taraškievica | Nov 23 00:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Taraškievica - Wikipedia | Nov 23 00:24 | |
| scientes | European languages will die en mass soon | Nov 23 00:25 |
| scientes | its already happening | Nov 23 00:25 |
| MinceR | maybe so will non-european ones :> | Nov 23 00:25 |
| XRevan86 | English reigns supreme. | Nov 23 00:25 |
| scientes | Except that the central european langauges actually have great literature behind them | Nov 23 00:25 |
| XRevan86 | I wonder if English has actually gotten to the point when it's "too big to fail" | Nov 23 00:28 |
| scientes | XRevan86, the main problem with English is the orthography | Nov 23 00:28 |
| XRevan86 | that even if the US disappears, it will remain the language of commerce, etc. | Nov 23 00:28 |
| scientes | it takes years to learn to be literate, and noone has the time to learn that | Nov 23 00:28 |
| XRevan86 | "noone" is not a word for instance :P | Nov 23 00:28 |
| scientes | the Book of Mormon is written in English, and they saw this problem, and tried to rectify it | Nov 23 00:28 |
| scientes | XRevan86, touché | Nov 23 00:29 |
| scientes | and I fully support renewing those efforts | Nov 23 00:29 |
| scientes | unspell.blogspot.com | Nov 23 00:29 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Alas it doesn't have to be good, it only has to be good enough. | Nov 23 00:29 |
| scientes | XRevan86, I disagree, as there are so many anal-retentive people that will always be a PITA if you don't have it just right | Nov 23 00:30 |
| scientes | so its important to be able to say that something is correct | Nov 23 00:30 |
| scientes | to get those people to shut up :) | Nov 23 00:30 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: So what, most i18n people don't use English for that | Nov 23 00:31 |
| XRevan86 | to discuss memes on social media :) | Nov 23 00:31 |
| scientes | not all use of language is created equally | Nov 23 00:31 |
| XRevan86 | For a lot of people it's a pidgin language. | Nov 23 00:32 |
| scientes | I see that here in Georgia | Nov 23 00:32 |
| scientes | I haven't met a native speaker yet | Nov 23 00:32 |
| XRevan86 | they don't care how well they articulate as long as they manage to get their point across | Nov 23 00:32 |
| scientes | well, I don't care either (and didn't when I was in the US), but it took training for me to get to that point | Nov 23 00:33 |
| XRevan86 | so much that my ears wither | Nov 23 00:33 |
| scientes | and the biggest thing that pushed me in that direction was fascinating immigrants into the US | Nov 23 00:33 |
| scientes | highly educated | Nov 23 00:33 |
| XRevan86 | I do care, but I don't complain | Nov 23 00:33 |
| MinceR | english is not just big, it's also easy | Nov 23 00:33 |
| XRevan86 | It's PHP-easy | Nov 23 00:33 |
| scientes | ^^^^hahahaha | Nov 23 00:33 |
| scientes | that's exactly why I need to work on this Unspell project | Nov 23 00:34 |
| scientes | to remove that connotation | Nov 23 00:34 |
| scientes | and show that English can be purer | Nov 23 00:34 |
| scientes | (even if it will take a long time for all the old inflections to die out) | Nov 23 00:34 |
| scientes | mouse/mice et cetera | Nov 23 00:34 |
| XRevan86 | It's super-easy to produce a workable result, but it's extra hard to make something that doesn't follow one anti-pattern or another. | Nov 23 00:35 |
| scientes | what do you mean? | Nov 23 00:35 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: PHP is very easy to write on, as long as you don't care | Nov 23 00:36 |
| scientes | yes, but in the context of English | Nov 23 00:36 |
| scientes | like Chinese have their own type of English, it may be wrong, but its consistant among all Chinese! | Nov 23 00:37 |
| <--chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Nov 23 00:37 | |
| scientes | (except those that do it right) | Nov 23 00:37 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Barely any inflections, word overloading, simple word order kinda mean that you can just string some words together and make an understandable sentence. | Nov 23 00:37 |
| scientes | ahhhhh yes | Nov 23 00:37 |
| scientes | very much so | Nov 23 00:37 |
| scientes | I was just at the pool and they used "foot fingers" | Nov 23 00:37 |
| scientes | and then said I couldn't get a membership because of my foot fungus | Nov 23 00:38 |
| XRevan86 | So it's easy to get going. But the result is apalling. | Nov 23 00:38 |
| cubexyz | which language is the most grammatically consistent? | Nov 23 00:38 |
| scientes | yes, and in the US those people usually have something interesting to say, so I can bare it | Nov 23 00:38 |
| scientes | but here its starting to get annoying | Nov 23 00:38 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Have you gotten to "пальцы ног" in your Russian studies :) | Nov 23 00:39 |
| scientes | no | Nov 23 00:39 |
| scientes | but I assumed so | Nov 23 00:40 |
| scientes | becuase English is special | Nov 23 00:40 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: Ĉu ne evidente? | Nov 23 00:40 |
| scientes | in having a word for toes | Nov 23 00:40 |
| XRevan86 | What bothers me in Russian a little is a hand-arm ambiguity, and foot-leg | Nov 23 00:41 |
| XRevan86 | I can say "кисть руки" and "ступня ноги", but that's being specific. | Nov 23 00:41 |
| cubexyz | XRevan86, esperanto? | Nov 23 00:42 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: jes | Nov 23 00:42 |
| scientes | XRevan86, does it bother you because you once crawled on all fours? | Nov 23 00:42 |
| scientes | :) | Nov 23 00:42 |
| XRevan86 | Though maybe there's a more consistent constructed language out there | Nov 23 00:42 |
| scientes | ohhh hand-arm | Nov 23 00:43 |
| scientes | that is different | Nov 23 00:43 |
| XRevan86 | Esperanto has some minor inconsistencies like a ĥ/k distinction being fuzzy. | Nov 23 00:43 |
| scientes | there is also the fore-arm and ?-arm | Nov 23 00:43 |
| XRevan86 | There's an English influence there, as English speakers don't get ĥ | Nov 23 00:43 |
| scientes | fore-arm and upper-arm | Nov 23 00:43 |
| XRevan86 | Arĥitekturo? Fekas! Arkitekturo, jes-jes, pli de tiu! | Nov 23 00:44 |
| scientes | but any more specific and you getting into anatomy | Nov 23 00:44 |
| XRevan86 | And that's how ĥ got into being the most unused letter of the Esperanto alphabet. | Nov 23 00:45 |
| XRevan86 | but still kinda used, and that's not consistent at all | Nov 23 00:45 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Upper-arm… oops… | Nov 23 00:47 |
| cubexyz | also a hamiltonian operator in quantum mechanics :) | Nov 23 00:47 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: shares the word in Russian with shoulder | Nov 23 00:47 |
| scientes | oh geeze, that is horrible | Nov 23 00:47 |
| scientes | those are totally different | Nov 23 00:47 |
| scientes | shoulder is a very complicated joint | Nov 23 00:47 |
| scientes | with so much range of motion | Nov 23 00:47 |
| XRevan86 | you can say плечевой сустав when meaning shoulders | Nov 23 00:48 |
| XRevan86 | a shoulder joint | Nov 23 00:48 |
| scientes | My brain has been so tired recently with all the language | Nov 23 00:48 |
| scientes | because its hearing all these new Georgian sounds | Nov 23 00:48 |
| scientes | studying spanish is actually relieving to this stress | Nov 23 00:49 |
| XRevan86 | плечо, локоть, предплечье, кисть | Nov 23 00:49 |
| XRevan86 | I do think of a hand as part of an arm, which is probably coloured by Russian, but I never use "arm" when I could use "hand". | Nov 23 00:50 |
| scientes | I once found a Russian-learning site that had been funded by the European development fund | Nov 23 00:51 |
| XRevan86 | same with feet and legs | Nov 23 00:51 |
| scientes | as if Russian is some minor shit language, and all the people there poor | Nov 23 00:51 |
| scientes | and that is what I feel of the 2017 constitutional amendments in Georgia | Nov 23 00:51 |
| scientes | its like the Russians are calling Goergians just some backwater farmers | Nov 23 00:52 |
| *XRevan86 never heard anyone say that | Nov 23 00:52 | |
| cubexyz | XRevan86, have you seen this one: | Nov 23 00:52 |
| scientes | but that is just my current take on it | Nov 23 00:52 |
| cubexyz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agat_%28computer%29 | Nov 23 00:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Agat (computer) - Wikipedia | Nov 23 00:52 | |
| XRevan86 | Georgia is considered a tourist attraction | Nov 23 00:52 |
| scientes | why else do you need a constitutional amendment to say that marriage is between a man and woman? | Nov 23 00:52 |
| XRevan86 | with good wine | Nov 23 00:52 |
| scientes | that it certainly is | Nov 23 00:53 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't follow | Nov 23 00:53 |
| scientes | the economy is similar to costa rica | Nov 23 00:53 |
| scientes | there is a constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and woman | Nov 23 00:53 |
| XRevan86 | I think I didn't receive some posts | Nov 23 00:53 |
| XRevan86 | (03:51:29) scientes: as if Russian is some minor shit language, and all the people there poor | Nov 23 00:53 |
| XRevan86 | (03:51:58) scientes: and that is what I feel of the 2017 constitutional amendments in Georgia | Nov 23 00:53 |
| scientes | no, i'm not making complete sense | Nov 23 00:53 |
| XRevan86 | this is a good time for a pony reference though | Nov 23 00:54 |
| scientes | marriage that is not between man and woman to have children is a stupid idea | Nov 23 00:54 |
| XRevan86 | https://youtu.be/C9gaFX9rPGU | Nov 23 00:54 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-And that's how Equestria was made. - YouTube | Nov 23 00:54 | |
| scientes | so you don't need to defend anything else | Nov 23 00:54 |
| scientes | Enraged people get to pull the water wagon. | Nov 23 00:54 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: DaemonFC[m] went through it anyway. I have been meaning to ask about that, honestly. | Nov 23 00:55 |
| scientes | ???? | Nov 23 00:55 |
| scientes | oh yes he did | Nov 23 00:56 |
| XRevan86 | And in different countries marriages have different obligations and benefits | Nov 23 00:56 |
| scientes | but to me it is irrelevent | Nov 23 00:56 |
| XRevan86 | so the rationale can be different | Nov 23 00:56 |
| scientes | marriage in the US is a scam | Nov 23 00:56 |
| scientes | you loose more than you gain | Nov 23 00:56 |
| scientes | wedding, sure | Nov 23 00:56 |
| scientes | but marriage---no point | Nov 23 00:56 |
| XRevan86 | inheritance maybe? | Nov 23 00:57 |
| XRevan86 | without a will | Nov 23 00:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I have nothing for him to inherit or to take in a divorce. | Nov 23 00:57 |
| scientes | about the only thing you gain is hospital visitation rights | Nov 23 00:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm about to file bankruptcy. | Nov 23 00:57 |
| XRevan86 | The state knows with whom you hooked up, so it can trust a person or something | Nov 23 00:58 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], and your asset exclusion limits are lower if you are married | Nov 23 00:58 |
| scientes | case and point | Nov 23 00:58 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: So why do it? | Nov 23 00:58 |
| XRevan86 | A symbolic gesture? | Nov 23 00:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I have to ask the government for permission for him to remain in the country. | Nov 23 00:58 |
| XRevan86 | Proof of trust? | Nov 23 00:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | You can't do that without being married. | Nov 23 00:58 |
| XRevan86 | Immigration… | Nov 23 00:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah. It's not like we'll get divorced afterwards. | Nov 23 00:59 |
| scientes | yeah immigration was the big one | Nov 23 00:59 |
| scientes | but with Trump that isn't the same thing either | Nov 23 00:59 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We got it filed before the rules changed. | Nov 23 01:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So they have to process us under the old regulations. | Nov 23 01:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We hurried up and got married so we could hurry up and file. | Nov 23 01:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It looks bad, but the chances of them saying no under the new rules are higher than if they ask why the rush and I just say "because of the new rules". | Nov 23 01:01 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I get what you mean, that it could make sense. But does it? A change is not the same as keeping something as-is. | Nov 23 01:03 |
| scientes | I am missing the context in your sentense | Nov 23 01:03 |
| scientes | that *it*, *something* | Nov 23 01:03 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Of defining marriage narrower in the constitution | Nov 23 01:03 |
| scientes | it just seems like such a stupid thing to do that I suspect an ulterior motive | Nov 23 01:04 |
| XRevan86 | And it's an Orthodox Christian country, so it really could be straight up hate for all I know. | Nov 23 01:04 |
| scientes | and the motive is right there: they also eliminated direct election of the head of state, and then promptly installed a pro-Russian puppet | Nov 23 01:04 |
| scientes | XRevan86, but they are not like that | Nov 23 01:05 |
| XRevan86 | so now they want those juicy tasty скрепы? | Nov 23 01:05 |
| scientes | I meet a man who almost immediately says that he does not like gays | Nov 23 01:05 |
| scientes | but is quick to say that Holland having so many gays is because they all flock there | Nov 23 01:05 |
| scientes | and that it is OK if it is for humor | Nov 23 01:05 |
| scientes | they really want to be good people | Nov 23 01:05 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: "I use Arch, BTW"? | Nov 23 01:06 |
| scientes | they are extremely concerned with being good people, but this man just cannot see anything good from homosexuality | Nov 23 01:06 |
| scientes | and I can't disagree with him | Nov 23 01:06 |
| scientes | tolerance and celebration are totally different | Nov 23 01:06 |
| cubexyz | overpopulation? less children? | Nov 23 01:07 |
| XRevan86 | Howdy, stranger, my name is Zurab. I don't like gays, by the way. | Nov 23 01:07 |
| scientes | it wasn't like that | Nov 23 01:07 |
| XRevan86 | "almost immediately" | Nov 23 01:07 |
| scientes | indeed | Nov 23 01:08 |
| XRevan86 | celebration goes hand in hand with homophobia, like paladins and altReich, motivate each other to be ever louder | Nov 23 01:10 |
| scientes | yep | Nov 23 01:10 |
| XRevan86 | From that feedback loop I blame the latter, because it's easier, they're morons. | Nov 23 01:10 |
| XRevan86 | and because blaming the former is too close to victim blaming | Nov 23 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Well, I tolerate a lot of things that are either none of my business or that I can't do anything about. | Nov 23 01:11 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], touché | Nov 23 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But social conservatives are like that Japanese soldier on the island fighting thr war they lost 40 years ago. | Nov 23 01:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They never get over anything and move on. | Nov 23 01:12 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], to say that homosexuals "won" is kinda missing the point that they don't reproduce | Nov 23 01:12 |
| cubexyz | I'm not sure what paladin means outside of video games | Nov 23 01:12 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Now that's not the point. | Nov 23 01:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They're still trying to get the courts to overturn abortion, and of course they don't because the only thing the conservatives hate more than abortion is the idea of more blacks. | Nov 23 01:12 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's old Russian Internet slang for a Warrior of Light | Nov 23 01:13 |
| scientes | although some of the most homophobic do feel that they reproduce horizontally and asexually | Nov 23 01:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | We don't have to reproduce to have stable numbers. | Nov 23 01:13 |
| XRevan86 | usually a schoolboy who takes morality to the absolute | Nov 23 01:13 |
| scientes | and on a boat for a long period of time, they are probably righht | Nov 23 01:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's always 5 to 7 percent even in countries where the government will murder you for it. | Nov 23 01:13 |
| scientes | and homosexuality does reproduce horizontally and asexually | Nov 23 01:13 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], and people are all gray in the entire planet | Nov 23 01:14 |
| scientes | and exactly 5 | Nov 23 01:14 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: So SJWs | Nov 23 01:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | People act like reproduction is inherently good. | Nov 23 01:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They even call it procreation. | Nov 23 01:16 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], every sperm is sacred | Nov 23 01:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | What about all those welfare mommies and dads who trip over themselves to commit another felony every time they let them out of prison? | Nov 23 01:16 |
| cubexyz | with no reproduction there would be no evil :) | Nov 23 01:17 |
| XRevan86 | Those who don't reproduce can give have a role in gene propagation | Nov 23 01:17 |
| XRevan86 | through helping their family | Nov 23 01:17 |
| cubexyz | also no good | Nov 23 01:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They produce more fucked up kids that shoot each other and sling drugs and take welfare and use up space. | Nov 23 01:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The cycle continues. | Nov 23 01:17 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], they are also not allowed to live with the mother of their children | Nov 23 01:17 |
| scientes | and the children are not allowed to contact their father | Nov 23 01:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Letting them have birth control and abortion is better than that. | Nov 23 01:17 |
| scientes | Russia is not so bad: russia does not have no-contact orders and first-time domestic violence calls are treated are not prosecuted | Nov 23 01:18 |
| scientes | which really pisses off the Global Liberal Elites | Nov 23 01:18 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's weird that conservatives think that women don't want babies | Nov 23 01:18 |
| XRevan86 | let them have abortions and the nation is extinct! | Nov 23 01:18 |
| scientes | XRevan86, can you be more specific | Nov 23 01:18 |
| XRevan86 | There's a big domestic violence in Russia controversy right now. | Nov 23 01:19 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: That abortions is a danger to something | Nov 23 01:19 |
| scientes | domestic violence in the US is mostly an excuse for extremely expensive prison | Nov 23 01:20 |
| XRevan86 | although I'm forgetting about the religious angle, never mind | Nov 23 01:20 |
| scientes | XRevan86, given that there is now an abortion pill that no government can ban, the difference between an anti-abortion and pro-abortion government is little | Nov 23 01:20 |
| XRevan86 | although (x2) the religious angle is just rationalisation, as always | Nov 23 01:20 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Still, why do they fear women having an option to avoid an unwanted pregnancy? | Nov 23 01:21 |
| scientes | women always have fear | Nov 23 01:22 |
| scientes | they are trying to say that women shouldn't be afraid | Nov 23 01:22 |
| scientes | and there also an element of control there | Nov 23 01:23 |
| XRevan86 | Well, it's a big commitment, so women will have doubts and fears, sure | Nov 23 01:23 |
| scientes | this fear is better in countries with religion | Nov 23 01:23 |
| scientes | XRevan86, they always have these fears with men, its the nature of a woman | Nov 23 01:23 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Now you lost me | Nov 23 01:24 |
| scientes | its the nature of females | Nov 23 01:24 |
| scientes | the difference between fear and love is subtle | Nov 23 01:24 |
| XRevan86 | is it? | Nov 23 01:25 |
| MinceR | abrahamics can't tell the difference :> | Nov 23 01:25 |
| scientes | ^^^^^exactly | Nov 23 01:25 |
| scientes | but actually, this faith does society good | Nov 23 01:26 |
| MinceR | [citation needed] | Nov 23 01:26 |
| XRevan86 | So many men don't work out these days (including yours truly), what's there to fear? | Nov 23 01:26 |
| XRevan86 | yet somehow couples form | Nov 23 01:26 |
| scientes | couples is something completely different | Nov 23 01:26 |
| MinceR | does one need to work out in order to become dangerous? | Nov 23 01:26 |
| MinceR | does one need a penis in order to be dangerous? | Nov 23 01:26 |
| scientes | <MinceR> does one need a penis in order to be dangerous? | Nov 23 01:26 |
| scientes | feminists would say so | Nov 23 01:26 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Doesn't count as love until the first pink eye? | Nov 23 01:27 |
| MinceR | then "feminists" would be wrong | Nov 23 01:27 |
| XRevan86 | nah, wrong colour | Nov 23 01:27 |
| scientes | I have taken a woman's virginity before, and there was fear there | Nov 23 01:27 |
| MinceR | :> | Nov 23 01:27 |
| scientes | but it was nothing like what I've experienced with Chinese women | Nov 23 01:27 |
| XRevan86 | black eye | Nov 23 01:27 |
| MinceR | and if you ban abortion, that fear magically goes away? | Nov 23 01:28 |
| scientes | it isn't fear, but rather the idea that they have to play to really perverse desires from men | Nov 23 01:28 |
| MinceR | have you considered that maybe only you are the pervert? :> | Nov 23 01:28 |
| scientes | as someone from a god-fearing cultural background it was really annoying | Nov 23 01:28 |
| scientes | I don't need to take your clothes off 4 times in one night to enjoy being with you | Nov 23 01:29 |
| XRevan86 | https://pics.me.me/thumb_is-why-ate-video-games-it-appeals-to-the-male-fantasy-45406735.png | Nov 23 01:29 |
| scientes | XRevan86, ahhahahahahah, that is sooo good | Nov 23 01:29 |
| scientes | the next picutre should be of a Russian serf | Nov 23 01:30 |
| MinceR | i realized there is a way abrahamic religion can do society good | Nov 23 01:30 |
| MinceR | it makes people hate knowledge and technology, thus not have the ability to save themselves from disasters or to move from this planet | Nov 23 01:31 |
| MinceR | so humanity dies out | Nov 23 01:31 |
| MinceR | and their suffering ends | Nov 23 01:31 |
| MinceR | and as a bonus, they also don't get to pollute other planets with their existence | Nov 23 01:31 |
| cubexyz | MinceR, that sounds like nihilism though | Nov 23 01:31 |
| scientes | MinceR, so the whole world should be amish? | Nov 23 01:32 |
| MinceR | and as another bonus, religious wars offer a faster path to extinction | Nov 23 01:32 |
| scientes | given that their birth rate went down from 8 to 6 children per woman | Nov 23 01:32 |
| MinceR | scientes: they probably believe it | Nov 23 01:32 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: Nihilism is more about not giving a crap about assigned value, no? | Nov 23 01:32 |
| MinceR | yes it is | Nov 23 01:32 |
| cubexyz | XRevan86, I guess | Nov 23 01:32 |
| MinceR | but try to make a theist understand that :> | Nov 23 01:32 |
| scientes | XRevan86, "Molarity is the heard instinct of the masses"-Neitzche | Nov 23 01:33 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's mostly a good thing though. | Nov 23 01:33 |
| scientes | MinceR, what assigned value does abrahamic religions have? | Nov 23 01:33 |
| scientes | XRevan86, by definition | Nov 23 01:33 |
| MinceR | way too many to list | Nov 23 01:33 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Like with free software we talk a lot about ethics. | Nov 23 01:34 |
| XRevan86 | and that kind of comes with being a human beast | Nov 23 01:34 |
| MinceR | they declare the value of life to obey their imaginary dictator | Nov 23 01:34 |
| scientes | ethics!=morality | Nov 23 01:34 |
| MinceR | the value of females to be somewhere near that of farm animals | Nov 23 01:34 |
| scientes | from what I see ethics is in a professional capacity, while morality is a personal judgement | Nov 23 01:34 |
| *XRevan86 doesn't see the distinction. | Nov 23 01:35 | |
| scientes | <MinceR> they declare the value of life to obey their imaginary dictator | Nov 23 01:35 |
| MinceR | to them, human life has value until the human is born, and then no value anymore | Nov 23 01:35 |
| scientes | MinceR, well yes we agree on that | Nov 23 01:35 |
| MinceR | they do not value knowledge or freedom | Nov 23 01:36 |
| XRevan86 | they can't value knowledge because they don't can't tell knowledge from non-sense | Nov 23 01:36 |
| XRevan86 | s/don't // | Nov 23 01:37 |
| XRevan86 | apart | Nov 23 01:37 |
| MinceR | the abrahamic "system of values" seems to be optimized to maximize suffering of lifeforms on earth but prevent their spread from the planet | Nov 23 01:38 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: You're overthinking it. | Nov 23 01:38 |
| cubexyz | abrahamic sounds like old testament though | Nov 23 01:38 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: That's a way to name them all at once | Nov 23 01:38 |
| MinceR | it's not just OT, it's judaism and all its descendants | Nov 23 01:39 |
| XRevan86 | Judaism, Christianity, Islam | Nov 23 01:39 |
| scientes | also Koran | Nov 23 01:39 |
| cubexyz | ah, I see | Nov 23 01:39 |
| XRevan86 | Islam, also Koran – that made sense %) | Nov 23 01:39 |
| cubexyz | surely that is a minority now? | Nov 23 01:39 |
| cubexyz | or perhaps not | Nov 23 01:39 |
| XRevan86 | cubexyz: 99% of all religions | Nov 23 01:40 |
| XRevan86 | well, maybe less, Buddhism is big | Nov 23 01:40 |
| scientes | real christianity is very abrahamic, but it is generally not taken like that | Nov 23 01:40 |
| XRevan86 | "over 7% of the global population, known as Buddhists" | Nov 23 01:40 |
| XRevan86 | 92% | Nov 23 01:41 |
| cubexyz | what percentage for atheists? | Nov 23 01:41 |
| MinceR | atheism is not a religion | Nov 23 01:41 |
| scientes | cubexyz, all the Chinese | Nov 23 01:41 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Don't they believe in their lord and saviour too? :) | Nov 23 01:42 |
| cubexyz | ok, I'll rephrase... what percentage of the world is non-abrahamic? | Nov 23 01:42 |
| MinceR | which one, marx, lenin, stalin or mao? | Nov 23 01:42 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I don't want to burn any bridges. | Nov 23 01:42 |
| scientes | XRevan86, well yeah, that is exactly why they get rid of religion | Nov 23 01:43 |
| scientes | same in USSR | Nov 23 01:43 |
| XRevan86 | this is a public chat | Nov 23 01:43 |
| MinceR | "may the bridges i burn light my way forward" | Nov 23 01:43 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: No, Stalin supported Christianity | Nov 23 01:43 |
| MinceR | seems to me they've failed to get rid of religion | Nov 23 01:43 |
| MinceR | they just replaced it with their own | Nov 23 01:43 |
| scientes | XRevan86, while causing famine in Georgia and Ukraine with collectivization? | Nov 23 01:43 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: The movement against religion was not pragmatic. | Nov 23 01:43 |
| cubexyz | wikipedia says 46% non-abrahamic, higher than I thought | Nov 23 01:44 |
| scientes | cubexyz, its the chinese, as I say | Nov 23 01:44 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Forced (or Second-Wave) Collectivisation was a blast | Nov 23 01:44 |
| scientes | (also India sans Pakistan) | Nov 23 01:44 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: But no, that's pre-war | Nov 23 01:44 |
| XRevan86 | "in Georgia" – I wonder how Georgians feel about the attempt of Ukraine's politicians to shape the famine as literal genocide of the Ukrainian people. | Nov 23 01:47 |
| XRevan86 | … by a Georgian | Nov 23 01:48 |
| scientes | whether that is true or not, its a silly argument to make | Nov 23 01:48 |
| MinceR | strange, i thought russian politicians shaped that famine :> | Nov 23 01:48 |
| MinceR | well, also a georgian, i guess | Nov 23 01:48 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: They'd rather put it under a rug | Nov 23 01:48 |
| MinceR | they've tried and failed to put other things under a rug too | Nov 23 01:48 |
| scientes | the genocide was caused by devil worshipers | Nov 23 01:48 |
| scientes | not explicit genocide | Nov 23 01:49 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: The "by a Georgian" argument? | Nov 23 01:49 |
| scientes | that's what I say | Nov 23 01:49 |
| MinceR | so, how do georgians feel about the most famous georgian? | Nov 23 01:49 |
| XRevan86 | which argument? | Nov 23 01:49 |
| scientes | the devil is communism, or whatever that state religion really was then | Nov 23 01:49 |
| scientes | MinceR, yes, Stalin was Georgian | Nov 23 01:49 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I'm asking, because that kind of excludes every other region where the famine occures. | Nov 23 01:50 |
| XRevan86 | * occured | Nov 23 01:50 |
| scientes | ahhhhh yes | Nov 23 01:50 |
| XRevan86 | so they might've felt left out or something | Nov 23 01:50 |
| scientes | Jews are like that too | Nov 23 01:50 |
| scientes | and Jehovah's Witnesses are kinda ticked about it | Nov 23 01:51 |
| scientes | purple triangle | Nov 23 01:51 |
| MinceR | not to worry, they'll eventually wage war against each other :> | Nov 23 01:51 |
| scientes | at this point Israel is established, but the people running that country are fucking batshit and not doing it much good | Nov 23 01:53 |
| *XRevan86 doesn't know a whole lot about Israel | Nov 23 01:53 | |
| scientes | and young people there often don't know any languages besides Hebrew | Nov 23 01:54 |
| MinceR | yet another religious fundamentalist state | Nov 23 01:54 |
| scientes | yes | Nov 23 01:54 |
| scientes | in some ways I get the argument that Judaism could not survive without a state | Nov 23 01:55 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It seems it's not as artificial as it may seem, as Hebrew kind of worked like a pidgin language for all the people who moved in from all around the world. | Nov 23 01:55 |
| scientes | that intellectual religion does not work very well | Nov 23 01:55 |
| scientes | but they also hurt themselves when they gutted out the Jewish diaspora | Nov 23 01:55 |
| MinceR | "intellectual religion" is a contradiction in terms | Nov 23 01:55 |
| scientes | MinceR, Judaism is it if you ever come accross it | Nov 23 01:55 |
| *XRevan86 completely ignores the religion part, because, well, doesn't care. | Nov 23 01:56 | |
| scientes | Judaism is different in that Jews passionately argue about whether God exists | Nov 23 01:56 |
| MinceR | scientes: if they dared to go further, they'd lose their religion | Nov 23 01:56 |
| scientes | although Spinoza was definitely too far | Nov 23 01:56 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Not everyone left who could. | Nov 23 01:56 |
| scientes | There were only a few here at the Synagogue in Batumi | Nov 23 01:57 |
| scientes | oh shit!! | Nov 23 01:57 |
| scientes | I forgot to go last night | Nov 23 01:57 |
| scientes | i need to set an alarm | Nov 23 01:57 |
| XRevan86 | I don't know how many Jewish people in Russia are actually Judaists. | Nov 23 01:57 |
| MinceR | is there a different way to be jewish? | Nov 23 01:57 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: heritage? | Nov 23 01:58 |
| scientes | that's kinda the problem | Nov 23 01:58 |
| scientes | that very few people adopt it | Nov 23 01:58 |
| scientes | and the birthrate is low | Nov 23 01:58 |
| MinceR | why is that a problem? | Nov 23 01:59 |
| scientes | :> | Nov 23 01:59 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_Israel | Nov 23 01:59 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Irreligion in Israel - Wikipedia | Nov 23 02:00 | |
| XRevan86 | I wonder how many of those are from Russia | Nov 23 02:00 |
| scientes | you don't get Judaism | Nov 23 02:00 |
| scientes | atheism is perfectly acceptable in Judaism | Nov 23 02:00 |
| scientes | its different from Christianity | Nov 23 02:00 |
| scientes | what river is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDopd6MNWyk | Nov 23 02:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-HAUSER - River Flows In You - YouTube | Nov 23 02:01 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Moses either didn't exist or was full of shit. Would I qualify? | Nov 23 02:01 |
| scientes | yeah, that isn't tolerated | Nov 23 02:01 |
| MinceR | the only river that i know of that flows in me is one of blood | Nov 23 02:01 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: That's also religion. | Nov 23 02:02 |
| scientes | yes, it very much is religion | Nov 23 02:02 |
| scientes | but my point still stands that Judaism tolerates atheism | Nov 23 02:02 |
| MinceR | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyWjF60NQfg | Nov 23 02:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Yiruma- River flows in you (Teknotokon remix) - YouTube | Nov 23 02:02 | |
| scientes | Spinoza is kinda the edge of that tolerance than can happen within Judaism | Nov 23 02:03 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I doubt that they'd accept true atheism as part of Judaism | Nov 23 02:03 |
| scientes | as I said, its tolerated | Nov 23 02:03 |
| scientes | that doesn't mean its the desired view | Nov 23 02:03 |
| scientes | you can be a jew and be atheist | Nov 23 02:04 |
| MinceR | they won't burn you for being an atheist? | Nov 23 02:04 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: As an atheist, I reject the notion of god as pointless. Akin to unicorns and bridge trolls. | Nov 23 02:04 |
| scientes | yeah, that would be accepted too | Nov 23 02:04 |
| MinceR | unicorns and bridge trolls are far more consistently defined than yahweh | Nov 23 02:04 |
| XRevan86 | yetis or the Loch Ness Monster | Nov 23 02:04 |
| scientes | remember, we were slaves in Egypt and forced to worship false idols | Nov 23 02:05 |
| XRevan86 | That's ancient history, literally | Nov 23 02:05 |
| XRevan86 | farther that ancient history even | Nov 23 02:05 |
| scientes | that's the story of Moses | Nov 23 02:05 |
| scientes | and it is a great story | Nov 23 02:05 |
| scientes | one I believe in, as a Jew | Nov 23 02:05 |
| MinceR | not sure about that | Nov 23 02:06 |
| MinceR | why would they get this one right? | Nov 23 02:06 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Would you believe it as a non-Jew? | Nov 23 02:06 |
| scientes | you would then cease to be a non-Jew | Nov 23 02:06 |
| scientes | (that is my point of view, but it is not universal) | Nov 23 02:06 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Christians dig it | Nov 23 02:07 |
| scientes | a ethnic definition of Judaism is much more common | Nov 23 02:07 |
| MinceR | i thought the nazis made that one up | Nov 23 02:07 |
| scientes | XRevan86, and it is central to Islam | Nov 23 02:07 |
| scientes | the shahada | Nov 23 02:07 |
| MinceR | so they could kill more people | Nov 23 02:07 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: naturally | Nov 23 02:07 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: So suddenly everyone's a Jew? | Nov 23 02:07 |
| MinceR | http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/captivity.html | Nov 23 02:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | How long was the Egyptian Captivity? | Nov 23 02:08 | |
| scientes | well its really a distinction of defining jew as Abraham (and circumcised, and ethnic, and heriditary), and through the story of Moses | Nov 23 02:08 |
| scientes | well, "define" is a bad word there | Nov 23 02:08 |
| scientes | but tolerating atheism is unique to Judaism | Nov 23 02:09 |
| MinceR | http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/soldjoe.html | Nov 23 02:09 |
| XRevan86 | I saw evidence that in the US circumcision has some secular popularity | Nov 23 02:09 |
| scientes | only other one I know that can do that is Taoism | Nov 23 02:09 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | Who brought Joseph into Egypt? | Nov 23 02:09 | |
| XRevan86 | would the Kellogg's followers qualify then? | Nov 23 02:09 |
| MinceR | http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/cattle.html | Nov 23 02:09 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-skepticsannotatedbible.com | Did God kill all the Egyptian cattle in the fifth plague? | Nov 23 02:10 | |
| MinceR | history is consistent with itself. this fable isn't. | Nov 23 02:10 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention | Nov 23 02:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | John Harvey Kellogg - Wikipedia | Nov 23 02:10 | |
| scientes | MinceR, take it as a fable, fool | Nov 23 02:10 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 23 02:10 |
| XRevan86 | You're a Slav if you believe in Baba Yaga | Nov 23 02:10 |
| XRevan86 | And Mech-Kladenets | Nov 23 02:11 |
| <--jgay has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | Nov 23 02:11 | |
| XRevan86 | be proud of your bogatyrs who saved the fatherland from the invaders | Nov 23 02:12 |
| MinceR | with their mechas? | Nov 23 02:12 |
| XRevan86 | such as Mongols and Tugarin-Zmiey | Nov 23 02:12 |
| scientes | I'm not circumcised | Nov 23 02:13 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: swords | Nov 23 02:13 |
| scientes | there is a funny statement by Putin where he suggests that he will get a doctor for you, and it won't grow back | Nov 23 02:13 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I know that one | Nov 23 02:13 |
| MinceR | scientes: i can attempt to take it as fact, but i invariably end up with the conclusion that reality is self-consistent and this scripture isn't, therefore the latter cannot be fact | Nov 23 02:13 |
| scientes | MinceR, well that isn't tolerated by Judaism | Nov 23 02:14 |
| scientes | but atheism is | Nov 23 02:14 |
| MinceR | well yeah, nothing will grow back once putler's done with life on earth | Nov 23 02:14 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Don't you dare say Tugarin didn't exist | Nov 23 02:14 |
| MinceR | scientes: let them come and try to kill me, then | Nov 23 02:14 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: tuga-who? | Nov 23 02:14 |
| XRevan86 | multi-headed dragons are cool as heck | Nov 23 02:14 |
| MinceR | i prefer single-headed ones | Nov 23 02:14 |
| scientes | MinceR, South Park makes fun of this with the maple-leaf bris | Nov 23 02:14 |
| XRevan86 | oh wait, it's not multi-headed and not always a dragon | Nov 23 02:15 |
| MinceR | multi-headed dragons are just hydras, which are dumb and weak | Nov 23 02:15 |
| XRevan86 | Zmiey Gorynich is | Nov 23 02:15 |
| MinceR | real dragons are majestic, powerful and smart (well, most of them, anyway) | Nov 23 02:15 |
| MinceR | oh, and magical | Nov 23 02:15 |
| cubexyz | homm3 has hydras, and they are weaker than dragons | Nov 23 02:16 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zmei_(Russian) | Nov 23 02:16 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Zmei (Russian) - Wikipedia | Nov 23 02:16 | |
| XRevan86 | A legit story. You may not believe it but as a Slav I kind of have to | Nov 23 02:17 |
| XRevan86 | or else everything goes | Nov 23 02:18 |
| MinceR | that existence must suck | Nov 23 02:18 |
| XRevan86 | </fat> | Nov 23 02:18 |
| MinceR | dictatorship of thought | Nov 23 02:19 |
| cubexyz | real polycephaly in nature is interesting though | Nov 23 02:19 |
| XRevan86 | I really don't get why anyone has to believe in the Moses story to be a Jew | Nov 23 02:19 |
| XRevan86 | and why scientes does either | Nov 23 02:19 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: What made you think "yep, that checks out"? | Nov 23 02:20 |
| MinceR | well, if "jew" means "adherent of judaism", then it could be easy | Nov 23 02:20 |
| MinceR | depending on how judaism is defined | Nov 23 02:20 |
| XRevan86 | > well its really a distinction of defining jew as Abraham (and circumcised, and ethnic, and heriditary), and through the story of Moses | Nov 23 02:20 |
| MinceR | assuming you can define belonging to religions in such a binary way | Nov 23 02:21 |
| MinceR | christians love to play with that | Nov 23 02:21 |
| XRevan86 | But I'm more curious about scientes' personal take | Nov 23 02:21 |
| XRevan86 | than about abstracts | Nov 23 02:21 |
| MinceR | "we're, like, totally over religious wars and we no longer call guys heretic, but _those_ guys just aren't christian, i don't care what they say." | Nov 23 02:21 |
| scientes | XRevan86, well that is the crux of the matter of "who is a jew?" | Nov 23 02:22 |
| scientes | on one hand it is purely ethnic and heriditary, and you don't have to believe in anything to be a jew | Nov 23 02:22 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Do you feel obligated to believe in it? | Nov 23 02:22 |
| scientes | on the other hand, you have to believe the story of moses | Nov 23 02:22 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: You said you do | Nov 23 02:22 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 23 02:23 |
| scientes | I have strong faith in it | Nov 23 02:23 |
| scientes | so I couldn't imagine myself without that belief | Nov 23 02:23 |
| MinceR | abrahamics just love inconsistency, don't they? | Nov 23 02:23 |
| scientes | MinceR, not all things in life are logical | Nov 23 02:23 |
| *XRevan86 could imagine scientes without it easily %) | Nov 23 02:23 | |
| MinceR | yeah, what religious people do certainly isn't :> | Nov 23 02:23 |
| scientes | XRevan86, well the smartest religious people hold it close to the chest | Nov 23 02:23 |
| scientes | but you asked | Nov 23 02:23 |
| MinceR | but the smartest religious people are still religious :> | Nov 23 02:24 |
| scientes | MinceR, you wouldn't know | Nov 23 02:24 |
| scientes | so no, they are not religious | Nov 23 02:24 |
| MinceR | i would | Nov 23 02:24 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I believe that everything has to be justified in one way or another, weakly or strongly. | Nov 23 02:24 |
| scientes | and Judaism doesn't have a problem with that | Nov 23 02:24 |
| scientes | but there has to be *something* that makes someone a jew | Nov 23 02:25 |
| MinceR | i believe that whatever doesn't kill you only makes you... stranger. | Nov 23 02:25 |
| scientes | basically, you don't have to believe in moses to be a jew | Nov 23 02:25 |
| scientes | but you cant mock it | Nov 23 02:25 |
| XRevan86 | some basis in reality, or else it's just the process Kellogg didn't like, except with perception of reality | Nov 23 02:25 |
| scientes | and you still have to have *something* that makes you a jew | Nov 23 02:25 |
| scientes | if you call yourself that | Nov 23 02:25 |
| MinceR | the Jew Bit | Nov 23 02:25 |
| scientes | because if you are apathetic to Judaism you will not get anything from it | Nov 23 02:26 |
| scientes | indeed, look at history and it is dangerous to be a jew | Nov 23 02:26 |
| MinceR | look at history and see that you can't clear your own Jew Bit :> | Nov 23 02:26 |
| scientes | well Israel is pretty crazy these days, so to them you can | Nov 23 02:26 |
| scientes | MinceR, that is part of Judaism | Nov 23 02:27 |
| MinceR | dehomag helped :> | Nov 23 02:27 |
| scientes | the not-being-able-to-clear-the-bit part | Nov 23 02:27 |
| MinceR | (better known as the german subsidiary of ibm) | Nov 23 02:27 |
| scientes | and is a good reason for me to never go to Eastern Europe | Nov 23 02:27 |
| MinceR | i don't think nazis are confined to eastern europe nowadays | Nov 23 02:28 |
| scientes | not to mention that they have the same crazy as western europe | Nov 23 02:28 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: So you changed your mind on Russia? | Nov 23 02:28 |
| scientes | just not to the same extent | Nov 23 02:28 |
| MinceR | would be nice if they were, though | Nov 23 02:28 |
| XRevan86 | Oh, you mean Eastern EU | Nov 23 02:28 |
| scientes | XRevan86, geographical terms are always flexible | Nov 23 02:28 |
| scientes | the more vague ones, that is | Nov 23 02:28 |
| XRevan86 | also sometimes known as Central Europe | Nov 23 02:29 |
| scientes | i meant non-Russia | Nov 23 02:29 |
| scientes | uggh | Nov 23 02:29 |
| scientes | this is what Judaism does to you | Nov 23 02:29 |
| scientes | I don't exactly want to be a Jew | Nov 23 02:29 |
| MinceR | it poisons your mind? | Nov 23 02:29 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It literally only bothers me that you believe in Moses %) | Nov 23 02:29 |
| scientes | XRevan86, "remember that I am the lord your god, that brought you out of egypt, out of bondage" | Nov 23 02:30 |
| scientes | exodus 20:2 | Nov 23 02:30 |
| scientes | that is what moses is about | Nov 23 02:30 |
| scientes | you can't understand moses without understanding slavery | Nov 23 02:31 |
| scientes | if you have never been enslaved then it doesn't have to mean much to you | Nov 23 02:31 |
| XRevan86 | 3000 years ago! | Nov 23 02:31 |
| MinceR | that's a pity, because looking at their rules, it seems that abrahamics don't understand slavery either :> | Nov 23 02:31 |
| scientes | XRevan86, and in the past! | Nov 23 02:31 |
| scientes | and not the present | Nov 23 02:31 |
| XRevan86 | American slavery is much more relevant | Nov 23 02:31 |
| MinceR | there are degrees of slavery | Nov 23 02:31 |
| scientes | this then becomes part of Islam, because in Islam you are free to worship god, and god alone | Nov 23 02:31 |
| scientes | XRevan86, yea, but you are not seeing slavery as a very human, but very dehumanizing process | Nov 23 02:32 |
| XRevan86 | Why not Martin Luther King Jr. then | Nov 23 02:32 |
| XRevan86 | he definitely existed | Nov 23 02:32 |
| scientes | although you did post that image once | Nov 23 02:32 |
| MinceR | apparently moses' historicity is even less established than jesus' >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#Historicity | Nov 23 02:32 |
| scientes | of the orthodox church, the state | Nov 23 02:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Moses - Wikipedia | Nov 23 02:32 | |
| scientes | all trying to enslave you | Nov 23 02:32 |
| MinceR | i guess moses just wasn't important enough to the cultists that poisoned the practice of history :> | Nov 23 02:33 |
| MinceR | how can it be dehumanizing though? | Nov 23 02:33 |
| MinceR | it seems most humans either want to be slaves or to enslave others | Nov 23 02:33 |
| scientes | MinceR, are slaves humans? | Nov 23 02:33 |
| MinceR | human slaves are humans | Nov 23 02:33 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Either you're a complete human or a pet | Nov 23 02:33 |
| MinceR | i don't think i know of slaves of any other species | Nov 23 02:34 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: what's a complete human? | Nov 23 02:34 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's not about species, it's about dignity | Nov 23 02:34 |
| MinceR | dignity is a rarity among humans | Nov 23 02:34 |
| cubexyz | there is zombification in the animal kingdom | Nov 23 02:34 |
| XRevan86 | being a full member of society and not a… err, slave | Nov 23 02:34 |
| cubexyz | not sure if that counts | Nov 23 02:34 |
| MinceR | what if society enslaves its members? | Nov 23 02:35 |
| MinceR | e.g. stalinist society | Nov 23 02:35 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's different when everyone's on equal footing | Nov 23 02:35 |
| MinceR | everyone's on equal footing only if you ignore the dictator and his pals | Nov 23 02:35 |
| MinceR | of course they wish you did | Nov 23 02:36 |
| XRevan86 | doesn't create a racist or condecending culture for one thing | Nov 23 02:36 |
| MinceR | i'm not so sure about that | Nov 23 02:36 |
| XRevan86 | Because if you're in shit, everyone who isn't will think that you in one way or another deserve it. | Nov 23 02:36 |
| MinceR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_Soviet_Union | Nov 23 02:36 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Racism in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia | Nov 23 02:37 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: People not on equal footing, would you look at that | Nov 23 02:37 |
| XRevan86 | prisoners of war, nomads | Nov 23 02:38 |
| MinceR | a society with people on equal footing probably never existed | Nov 23 02:38 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Now look at slaves | Nov 23 02:38 |
| XRevan86 | you can't get more extreme than that | Nov 23 02:38 |
| MinceR | the people owned by the state? | Nov 23 02:38 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I get what you mean. | Nov 23 02:39 |
| scientes | then you are a jew | Nov 23 02:39 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Okay, imagine a labour camp | Nov 23 02:40 |
| MinceR | but what if XRevan86 gets what scientes but doesn't believe Moses existed? | Nov 23 02:40 |
| MinceR | s/tes/& means/ | Nov 23 02:40 |
| XRevan86 | under the jurisdiction of GULAG, why not | Nov 23 02:40 |
| MinceR | damn, i'm leaving words out today | Nov 23 02:40 |
| MinceR | should sleep | Nov 23 02:40 |
| scientes | MinceR, didn't exist is not insulting, so might be tolerated | Nov 23 02:40 |
| scientes | *might* | Nov 23 02:40 |
| MinceR | but what if XRevan86 gets what scientes means but believes something insulting about Moses? | Nov 23 02:41 |
| scientes | that like Spinoza, on the edge of what can be accepted | Nov 23 02:41 |
| scientes | MinceR, theoretical libel hehehe | Nov 23 02:41 |
| MinceR | :) | Nov 23 02:41 |
| MinceR | https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/971/525/6e4.jpg | Nov 23 02:41 |
| XRevan86 | There's a running joke that G-d was careful to lead the Jews to the only strip of land where there's absolutely no oil | Nov 23 02:41 |
| <--Condor has quit (Quit: WeeChat 2.3) | Nov 23 02:41 | |
| scientes | XRevan86, indeed | Nov 23 02:42 |
| MinceR | so that the usians wouldn't bring them "democracy"? | Nov 23 02:42 |
| XRevan86 | Took 40 days but worth it | Nov 23 02:42 |
| MinceR | https://66.media.tumblr.com/e89773e07ba1680bf4393d6b06024413/tumblr_n6z1sjiQos1rg365do1_1280.jpg | Nov 23 02:42 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: 3000 years beforehand. | Nov 23 02:43 |
| XRevan86 | Now that's long-term planning. | Nov 23 02:43 |
| MinceR | :) | Nov 23 02:43 |
| scientes | the zionists are like the protestants though | Nov 23 02:45 |
| scientes | they have to take everything literally | Nov 23 02:45 |
| scientes | or actually it is far woorse | Nov 23 02:45 |
| MinceR | thieves are like that too | Nov 23 02:45 |
| scientes | they don't give a shit about the religion | Nov 23 02:45 |
| MinceR | they take everything literally | Nov 23 02:45 |
| scientes | <MinceR> thieves are like that too | Nov 23 02:45 |
| scientes | hahahahaha | Nov 23 02:45 |
| XRevan86 | Every religion^W every idea has those. | Nov 23 02:45 |
| XRevan86 | Even FOSS. | Nov 23 02:45 |
| XRevan86 | > thieves are like that too | Nov 23 02:45 |
| XRevan86 | that's gold | Nov 23 02:45 |
| XRevan86 | > they take everything literally | Nov 23 02:46 |
| XRevan86 | Too much explaining. Good thing I didn't see it %). | Nov 23 02:46 |
| MinceR | as for not taking things literally, if a perfect being writes perfect stricture and you have to play word games to get the preferred interpretation, it's either not nearly as perfect as the brochure stated or the preferred interpretation is bullshit | Nov 23 02:46 |
| scientes | and those that take it literally also steal from its meaning | Nov 23 02:46 |
| scientes | that's why it is such gold | Nov 23 02:46 |
| MinceR | s/stric/scrip/ | Nov 23 02:47 |
| XRevan86 | I'll continue on insisting that in the lore of this world the reality stuff is primary and Tora, Bible, Quran are just non-canon spin-offs | Nov 23 02:48 |
| MinceR | i consider them to be badly written and badly edited tales | Nov 23 02:49 |
| XRevan86 | (and fanfiction on each other, he-he) | Nov 23 02:49 |
| MinceR | (parts of the bible are more boring than a telephone directory) | Nov 23 02:49 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: You could always read Bible for Kids. It straight-up lies about what's in the Bible, but does that really matter? | Nov 23 02:50 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 23 02:50 |
| MinceR | it's consistent with the tradition of just writing one's own bullshit rules into scripture and claiming it was always there and you must obey them | Nov 23 02:50 |
| XRevan86 | And in the end, it could as well be | Nov 23 02:51 |
| XRevan86 | If you leave a trashbag on the sidewalk, you just know – this strip of land will soon turn into a scrapyard | Nov 23 02:52 |
| XRevan86 | illustration: https://kurer-sreda.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/главно.jpg | Nov 23 02:53 |
| XRevan86 | now that's nihilist :) | Nov 23 02:54 |
| MinceR | allegedly they really just collect trashbags from the sidewalks in some places in japan | Nov 23 02:54 |
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| XRevan86 | MinceR: If only I could in believe, maybe I would've been a Japanese (: | Nov 23 02:56 |
| MinceR | :> | Nov 23 02:56 |
| XRevan86 | I also forgot how to words, yes | Nov 23 02:56 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | I have an appointment at Pep Boys. | Nov 23 03:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | My car battery is getting dodgy now, so I took advantage of a promo to get a Champion AGM car battery for $140. | Nov 23 03:09 |
| MinceR | there's a Dodge in your car battery? :> | Nov 23 03:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Hmmm. | Nov 23 03:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Al Bundy: And on that day, son, you'll need to outrun the Dodge. | Nov 23 03:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Bud: Dad, Rush Limbaugh could outrun the Dodge. | Nov 23 03:17 |
| scientes | шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить шить | Nov 23 03:19 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Mandy asked why my flashlight had a metal spike in the side of it. | Nov 23 03:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said it's to bash your window out if you drive into a river or something. | Nov 23 03:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said, "I don't know why you'd do that, but people fear drowning, so....". | Nov 23 03:21 |
| MinceR | they put an instruction to pedestrians on the front of the vehicle: "DODGE" | Nov 23 03:24 |
| MinceR | strangely enough, later they came up with vehicles that had an instruction to the driver instead: "RAM" | Nov 23 03:24 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: I drove a 1998 Dodge RAM once when my mom's ex husband told me to take his truck to the next town over and pick something up for him. | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said, "Is your truck leaking gas or something?". | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He goes "No, why?". | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said, "You're getting 8 miles a gallon.". | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He says "Yeah.". | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I go...."On the highway......". | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He says, "Yeah.". | Nov 23 03:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It got terrible gas mileage. I guess that's why it had a 30 gallon gas tank. | Nov 23 03:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Anyway, that must have been fun when gas was $4.50 a gallon. :P | Nov 23 03:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Must explain why there were two mortgages on their house. | Nov 23 03:35 |
| schestowitz | important from devuan: | Nov 23 05:48 |
| schestowitz | > -------- Forwarded Message -------- | Nov 23 05:48 |
| schestowitz | > Subject: [DNG] Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian | Nov 23 05:48 |
| schestowitz | > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 10:55:46 +0100 | Nov 23 05:48 |
| schestowitz | > From: Denis Roio <jaromil@dyne.org> | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > Organization: Dyne.org foundation | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > To: DNG <dng@lists.dyne.org> | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > dear readers, | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > I write this email to comment on the current Init System GR vote in | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > Debian, see https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2019/11/ | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > I'll be brief and express my personal opinion on the matter. | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.debian.org | debian-vote Nov 2019 by thread | Nov 23 05:49 | |
| schestowitz | > Devuan cannot exist without the help of Debian. | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > When me and Franco Lanza started this project in 2014 it was because | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > of the most painful Init System GR in Debian. Back then, we chose Ian | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > Jackson as the best Debian developer to represent the interest of | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > Debian's users and to defend the true mission of the Debian project as | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > a universal operating system. While supporting Ian's proposal we also | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > promised to the world that, if that wouldn't be the route taken by | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > Debian, we would have not gone gently into that good night. | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > So we did, and Devuan was born. | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > Together with a small group of volunteers we dedicated huge amounts of | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > time and resources to Devuan, putting our skills at the service of a | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > very large community of people in need of Init Freedom; a whole | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > chapter of my doctoral thesis is dedicated to this project | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > https://pearl.plymouth.ac.uk/handle/10026.1/11101 and overall our | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > history is rather well explained here | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/ and our community well represented | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > by the first Devuan conference we organised in Amsterdam | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Nov 23 05:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pearl.plymouth.ac.uk | Algorithmic Sovereignty | Nov 23 05:49 | |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-devuan.org | Init Freedom Campaign | Devuan GNU+Linux Free Operating System | Nov 23 05:49 | |
| schestowitz | > For many of us Devuan has been a source of pride, joy and professional | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > relief. It brought together some of the best people, developers and | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > system administrators I could ever hope to meet in my life. We also | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > managed to contribute back solutions and software useful to the Debian | Nov 23 05:49 |
| schestowitz | > project. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.dyne.org | The first Devuan Conference - report, videos and interviews | Nov 23 05:50 | |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Now please let this success be an account of how important is Init | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Freedom for the large amount of Debian users out there. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Today I write you because there is a reason to be worried that many | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Debian users will be betrayed once more by its leadership. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > And today once again I support the vote proposition nr.4 by Ian | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Jackson and urge the elite who has the privilege to steer the future | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > of Debian to pay good attention to this choice, considering Ian's | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > competent and well informed formulation. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > At last, please, do not consider Devuan as an alternative solution | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > which will survive any outcome of this vote. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Because I'm sure Devuan will not survive without Debian's help. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Devuan is much, much smaller than Debian in resources, people and | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > infrastructure, and despite our efforts were useful to both, the | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Debian project has done very little to help us so far. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > If Debian drops the support for any other init system but systemd, I | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > believe we won't be able to keep up with the legwork needed to support | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > all other init systems. I say this because we do not have a comparable | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > amount of people and resources to face the huge amount of work Debian | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > will cease to do. Of course quality matters, but not that far. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > If the resolution nr.4 proposed by Ian Jackson will not pass, | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > Devuan will die. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > -- Denis "Jaromil" Roio https://Dyne.org think &do tank Ph.D, CTO & | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > co-founder software to empower communities ✉ Haparandadam 7-A1, 1013AK | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > I regret that I still have not skill to contribute to this monumentally | Nov 23 05:50 |
| schestowitz | > important project. | Nov 23 05:50 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Dyne.org digital community and free software foundry | Nov 23 05:50 | |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: that is exactly what I suspected about Devuan they really don't have the resources. | Nov 23 07:04 |
| oiaohm | gentoo with openrc barely has enough. | Nov 23 07:05 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130832 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2db3c40b-340d-42fb-8a3b-17f25527fd40] | Nov 23 08:28 | |
| schestowitz | > A Google search for "open source" brings up only several pages of M$ spam. | Nov 23 08:34 |
| schestowitz | Googlebombing in action. | Nov 23 08:34 |
| schestowitz | But is this unique to this past week? | Nov 23 08:34 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: depends on where you are looking I did three google searches from 3 different IP most of the enteries were like redhat gnu sourceforge.... and some media companies in the first 2 pages. | Nov 23 08:56 |
| oiaohm | Google results are a bit randomish. | Nov 23 08:57 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, same here | Nov 23 09:09 |
| schestowitz | I could not reproduce | Nov 23 09:09 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: the the roll of the rotten google snake eyes. | Nov 23 09:46 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux File Managers and OwnCloud Integration http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130833 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7fb17983-773b-4667-81a5-87ad520d2839] | Nov 23 10:23 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Mint vs Ubuntu : A comparative overview http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130834 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b12068b0-0a95-4cc7-a391-9805ba6b089f] | Nov 23 10:25 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: ESP32 Game Console and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130836 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7bfa2173-b223-4ebf-8bea-845572e532ba] | Nov 23 10:33 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Development and New Linux Foundation Joiner http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130837 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c23e37c7-3093-4ad1-9121-c75f6755d7ea] | Nov 23 10:59 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU Gimp (GIMP), GNU Radio and EmacsConf http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130838 [https://pleroma.site/objects/44959a2e-19d4-44b7-a2b4-fb7a7afe3f25] | Nov 23 11:09 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: Mutt, QOwnNotes, LibreTorrent http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130839 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1ca6b31e-3110-4904-a38d-28f6e6c5a707] | Nov 23 11:46 | |
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| MinceR | allegedly you can dodge the search bubble with searx or startpage | Nov 23 14:33 |
| XRevan86 | I haven't been using search engines with personalised results for so long I forgot how that looks like. | Nov 23 14:35 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: startpage is spying | Nov 23 14:38 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Startpage | Nov 23 14:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Startpage - Techrights | Nov 23 14:38 | |
| MinceR | i know | Nov 23 14:38 |
| MinceR | so's google | Nov 23 14:38 |
| schestowitz | so it's like a slower google | Nov 23 14:38 |
| schestowitz | with another logo and inferior search results | Nov 23 14:39 |
| MinceR | it also prevents personalization, in theory | Nov 23 14:39 |
| schestowitz | personalization is overrated | Nov 23 14:52 |
| schestowitz | they build classifiers | Nov 23 14:52 |
| schestowitz | and they optimise not for you | Nov 23 14:52 |
| danielp3344 | how about duckduckgo? | Nov 23 14:52 |
| schestowitz | but for those looking to manipulate you | Nov 23 14:52 |
| schestowitz | they don't lead you where you want, they sell the outcome to someone else' like a company or some political hacks | Nov 23 14:52 |
| schestowitz | danielp3344: same shit | Nov 23 14:53 |
| danielp3344 | darn... | Nov 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | since ages ago, the startpage sellout happened this year | Nov 23 14:53 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: who *doesn't* track | Nov 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | searx is limited to whoever runs the code | Nov 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | node | Nov 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | node with code, it was a typo anyway | Nov 23 14:53 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: also, are you saying ddg tracks or is manipulating search results | Nov 23 14:54 |
| schestowitz | it does all sorts of things, even insiders told me and others | Nov 23 14:56 |
| MinceR | ddg doesn't use google, afaik | Nov 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | I have some contacts who know the details better | Nov 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: as if Microsoft (Yahoo) is better... | Nov 23 14:56 |
| MinceR | it's worse | Nov 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | We already know Microsoft tweaks results for business reasons | Nov 23 14:56 |
| MinceR | but you can't see google without search bubble on ddg | Nov 23 14:56 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: how does ddg keep track of users then? | Nov 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | sometimes I use wikipedia | Nov 23 14:57 |
| MinceR | microsloth also fails to find and index pages in the first place | Nov 23 14:57 |
| schestowitz | directly | Nov 23 14:57 |
| schestowitz | danielp3344: their server (AWS) has your IP | Nov 23 14:57 |
| danielp3344 | tor | Nov 23 14:57 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: at least Microsoft is consistent | Nov 23 14:57 |
| danielp3344 | also ips change | Nov 23 14:58 |
| MinceR | :> | Nov 23 14:58 |
| schestowitz | how many people use ddg in conjunction with tor? | Nov 23 14:58 |
| schestowitz | also the search term can be a giveaway, e.g. ego surfing | Nov 23 14:58 |
| schestowitz | I leave controversial searches to the gym | Nov 23 14:58 |
| <--insmodppa has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Nov 23 14:59 | |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: well, I do :P | Nov 23 14:59 |
| schestowitz | good | Nov 23 14:59 |
| schestowitz | but then you can also use Google | Nov 23 15:00 |
| schestowitz | (if you trust tor) | Nov 23 15:00 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: do you have proof of duckduckgo manipulating results? | Nov 23 15:00 |
| *schestowitz has not used tor since 2013 or 2014 | Nov 23 15:00 | |
| danielp3344 | <schestowitz "(if you trust tor)"> well obviously not completely | Nov 23 15:00 |
| danielp3344 | but pretty well | Nov 23 15:00 |
| schestowitz | danielp3344: those are not their results | Nov 23 15:01 |
| schestowitz | many are Microsoft's | Nov 23 15:01 |
| danielp3344 | That doesn't really matter | Nov 23 15:01 |
| danielp3344 | As long as the search results are a direct function of the search term | Nov 23 15:01 |
| schestowitz | what does that mean? | Nov 23 15:03 |
| schestowitz | No interjected promoted stuff? | Nov 23 15:03 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: If myself and someone else search the same thing we should get the same results | Nov 23 15:03 |
| schestowitz | so determinism | Nov 23 15:04 |
| schestowitz | but the Web changes all the time | Nov 23 15:05 |
| schestowitz | timeliness is also a factor in results | Nov 23 15:05 |
| schestowitz | sometimes language | Nov 23 15:05 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: yes true | Nov 23 15:05 |
| danielp3344 | Do you really not get what I'm saying? | Nov 23 15:05 |
| schestowitz | yeah | Nov 23 15:05 |
| schestowitz | I personally try not to use SEs much | Nov 23 15:06 |
| danielp3344 | Does duckduckgo actually keep track of individuals and manipulate everyone's search results individually? | Nov 23 15:06 |
| schestowitz | except to find something that I know I look for specifically, like an article I once saw | Nov 23 15:06 |
| schestowitz | danielp3344: that's not their business model | Nov 23 15:06 |
| danielp3344 | Right now I'm trying to find articles about engine compression ration and boost pressure | Nov 23 15:06 |
| danielp3344 | ratio* | Nov 23 15:07 |
| schestowitz | go to good sites | Nov 23 15:08 |
| schestowitz | search for there | Nov 23 15:08 |
| schestowitz | reduce the scope to the reputation of the source | Nov 23 15:08 |
| schestowitz | e.g. pubmed | Nov 23 15:08 |
| schestowitz | if it's open access anyway | Nov 23 15:08 |
| schestowitz | or just go to wikipedia and use references in the articles there | Nov 23 15:08 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: yeah but I have no idea what site to look at :P | Nov 23 15:08 |
| schestowitz | the references there are subjected to discussion (Talk) by domain experts | Nov 23 15:09 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: not too much on wikipedia | Nov 23 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Try Popular Mechanics | Nov 23 15:09 |
| schestowitz | they have archives | Nov 23 15:10 |
| danielp3344 | eww | Nov 23 15:10 |
| schestowitz | they got bought | Nov 23 15:10 |
| schestowitz | bad company | Nov 23 15:10 |
| schestowitz | but the articles predate that | Nov 23 15:10 |
| danielp3344 | schestowitz: tell me about it lol | Nov 23 15:10 |
| danielp3344 | same thing with MAKE | Nov 23 15:10 |
| schestowitz | they even turn science into showbiz now | Nov 23 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Murdoch bought NatGeo | Nov 23 15:10 |
| -->insmodppa (~insmod@unaffiliated/insmodppa) has joined #techrights | Nov 23 15:27 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | The History Channel talking about space aliens and "ancient astronaut theorists" and UFOs. | Nov 23 16:54 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's fucking stupid bullshit for fucking stupid people. | Nov 23 16:54 |
| <--mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Nov 23 17:04 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | I like Rick & Morty..... | Nov 23 17:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Slime Rick slimes everyone. The pastor at the church makes the sign of the devil and screams "God is a lie! We made him up for money!". | Nov 23 17:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Next time you see him is when regular Rick un-slimes everyone. The pastor is getting it on with another man. "God is real!". | Nov 23 17:09 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130840 [https://pleroma.site/objects/95e3e079-7bed-478d-bb5b-86755dd81f93] | Nov 23 17:11 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: More #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130843 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1ee307c7-d7c7-458b-9a3e-fd95f8b6ce94] | Nov 23 17:12 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: I just got $50 from Lenovo. | Nov 23 17:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They included some adware in Windows 10 on this model (I use Linux on it.) and got sued. | Nov 23 17:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So since I bought an affected model, I got $50 even though the crapware never affected me. | Nov 23 17:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Scotty Kilmer says these Optima car batteries are junk. | Nov 23 17:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Didn't used to be. They used to last for a VERY LONG TIME, until they moved the factory to Mexico. | Nov 23 17:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Now they charge $240 for a car battery and many of them only last a year or two. | Nov 23 17:48 |
| schestowitz | Get a discount for deleting Windows... | Nov 23 17:50 |
| schestowitz | that's be a real thing | Nov 23 17:50 |
| schestowitz | and also, why do you still buy Lenovo? | Nov 23 17:50 |
| oiaohm | Really most OEM don't pay for windows. | Nov 23 17:58 |
| oiaohm | The crapware bundled with windows pay for windows + some. | Nov 23 17:59 |
| oiaohm | I remember when Microsoft wanted to do their own store with malware free windows machines and all the OEM said that will be 50 to 100 dollars more per machine thank you. | Nov 23 17:59 |
| oiaohm | Remember Microsoft was only charging most of the OEM at the time 50 dollars. | Nov 23 18:00 |
| oiaohm | 100-150 USD in crapware payments. | Nov 23 18:00 |
| oiaohm | I still remember doing whitebox building and getting offers to be paid like 10 dollars to put a trial version of a anti-virus on machines. | Nov 23 18:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah, the crapware and the mass production creates economy of scale. | Nov 23 18:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Perversely, it makes it cheaper to buy an off-the-shelf machine and nuke Windows, even though that's not a good thing. It simply makes sure that Microsoft keeps getting money and that system builders underestimate demand for Linux and keep designing their systems to Microsoft specs. | Nov 23 18:10 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130844 [https://pleroma.site/objects/82071eac-bbde-4020-aede-1729c34dd5e9] | Nov 23 18:14 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE: KDE Wikis, KF6 Sprint and Plasma Mobile http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130845 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6ba43131-f193-4e0d-be03-941aac294e27] | Nov 23 18:22 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130846 [https://pleroma.site/objects/99b84d3d-4734-487d-a005-01842f654b82] | Nov 23 18:28 | |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC[m]: vendors working out with bios and other things to load crapware/malware back into windows after clean install was also about making more money that way. | Nov 23 18:31 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla: Firefox WebExtensions, Glean SDK and Async Interviews http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130847 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6676d1fa-3013-4ef5-a677-d13b3ba65676] | Nov 23 18:57 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU Health Release and Molly de Blan on Healthcare http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130848 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f4b8f2fd-2c7b-4e84-a321-bf8afd089071] | Nov 23 19:05 | |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/11/01/f190dddb9a766b55.png | Nov 23 19:08 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Hardware: Benchmarks, 'Internet of Things' and Clientron http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130849 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5b3713be-3d28-4562-9606-d574e535149c] | Nov 23 19:14 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Proprietary Software Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130850 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a96fe9bd-b414-47d5-8535-e511107fbdad] | Nov 23 19:17 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/130851 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b3417191-e0f7-4698-a754-a9401d6e2364] | Nov 23 19:18 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 2311/2019: X.Org Server 1.20.6 and GNU Health 3.6.2 http://techrights.org/2019/11/23/gnu-health-3-6-2/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/93d5055b-daf3-424c-86e0-c353d6a35fb2] | Nov 23 19:39 | |
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| MinceR | https://full.pr0gramm.com/2019/08/29/f1f38ad6fb667dd5.jpg | Nov 23 20:57 |
| MinceR | https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/11/01/7f6f646852a86a16.mp4 | Nov 23 21:25 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/630997.jpg | Nov 23 21:53 |
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