●● IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, July 25, 2022 ●● ● Jul 25 [00:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [00:08] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [00:14] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/22070841 [00:14] TR Bot IRCZ makes your life worth living https://i.redd.it/22l7pbjzi6a91.jpg created on 2022-07-08 11:28:50.784249 [00:17] *matey has quit (connection closed) [00:19] *matey (~matey@6v8cjbvydcdre.irc) has joined #techrights [00:21] TR News "https://debian.community/assets/debian-women-keyring.svg [00:29] britney DaemonFC, I love how you rant about social media and then have a "share on twitter" and "share of facebook" buttons at the bottom [00:38] schestowitz[TR2] part of templates [00:41] DaemonFC If there's some way of removing those, I'd like to know. [00:44] schestowitz[TR2] are they locally hosted/ [00:45] schestowitz[TR2] some such buttons are spyware [00:45] schestowitz[TR2] they track the users for those spying giants [00:45] schestowitz[TR2] then again wordpress.com see everything [00:48] DaemonFC Yeah, the only option I see is to add more crap. [00:48] DaemonFC Including paying Wordpress to use Cloudflare for something. [00:58] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [00:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 34.50 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.06 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [01:01] phanes mjg59_, re: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.20.3.pdf | I see that exhibits 2, 3, 7, 8, 9, 10 are present, but 1, 4, 5, 6 are not present in Reichwein's submission in the Todd case. Do you know what happened with those exhibits? [01:03] TR News Terraform Import - Leaving Click Opps Behind https://earthly.dev/blog/terraform-lambda/ [01:03] TR Bot Terraform Import - Leaving Click Ops Behind - Earthly Blog [01:04] TR News Moving from one prison to another https://batsov.com/articles/2022/07/20/fastmail-year-one/ [01:04] TR Bot Fastmail: Year One - (think) [01:04] TR News We won't be sending systemd logs to Grafana Loki in JSON format https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/GrafanaLokiAvoidingJSON [01:05] TR Bot Chris's Wiki :: blog/sysadmin/GrafanaLokiAvoidingJSON [01:07] TR News How Amazon et al will be selling listening devices to people https://cacm.acm.org/news/262831-raising-the-voices-of-the-dead/fulltext [01:07] TR Bot Raising the Voices of the Dead | News | Communications of the ACM [01:08] TR News Students, Campuses and Dominant Corporate Power - Ralph Nader https://nader.org/2022/07/16/students-campuses-and-dominant-corporate-power/ Source: nader | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//nader.org/2022/07/16/students-campuses-and-dominant-corporate-power/ [01:08] TR Bot Students, Campuses and Dominant Corporate Power - Ralph Nader [01:09] TR News new gimmicks https://staceyoniot.com/qualcomm-launches-wearable-chips-that-may-finally-meet-the-moment/ [01:09] TR Bot Qualcomm launches wearable chips that may finally meet the moment - Stacey on IoT | Internet of Things news and analysis [01:10] TR News No https://techxplore.com/news/2022-06-ai-secret-language.html [01:10] TR Bot Do AI systems really have their own secret language? [01:11] TR News "The Old Computer Challenge V2 is over! What a week! It was even more than a week, as it was from 10th to 17th july included, that was 8 days." https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2022-07-19-old-computer-challenge-v2-ending.html [01:12] TR Bot Solene'% : The Old Computer Challenge V2: done! [01:12] TR News XFS : Project Update https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/mashijams/2022-07-19_gsoc_2022_xfs_project_update/ [01:12] TR Bot [GSoC 2022] XFS : Project Update | Haiku Project [01:13] TR News E43: Building Supabase, the Open Source Firebase Alternative https://anchor.fm/ossstartuppodcast/episodes/E43-Building-Supabase--the-Open-Source-Firebase-Alternative-e1ld637 [01:13] TR Bot E43: Building Supabase, the Open Source Firebase Alternative by Open Source Startup Podcast [01:15] matey /me figures those must be sealed [01:16] matey Sealed Cases and Documents - United States Courts [01:16] matey www.insb.uscourts.gov/content/sealed-cases-and-documents [01:16] matey A sealed document filed in a non-sealed case may only be viewed by certain court users and by the party who filed the document. Access may be given to other users as needed. ... [01:17] matey another example [01:17] matey Key document missing from records unsealed in "Painkiller" lawsuit [01:17] matey www.ilind.net/2020/11/27/key-document-missing-from-records-unsealed-in-painkiller-lawsuit/ [01:17] matey After the Civil Beat Law Center filed its motion asking that the sealed documents be disclosed, the government responded. In general, according to the response filed in court, it did not oppose unsealing of the documents in the case, although more time was requested in order to make any redactions thought to be necessary. [01:17] matey so an unsealed case can have sealed documents [01:17] phanes yep looks like todd tried to keep "something" from being sealed. it looks like it's further down. [01:18] matey and documents which are unsealed by a motion can be redacted which are "thought to be necessary" [01:18] matey rather as the redactions are thought necessary [01:18] matey so theres at least three levels of revealing documents to the system [01:19] matey sealed case, sealed/unsealed document, unsealed+redacted (and presumably unredacted too) [01:19] MinceR (cat) https://rimgo.bcow.xyz/gallery/40LjHVQ [01:19] TR Bot Feline Behavior Post- Cats and Hot Weather - rimgo [01:20] phanes there's quite a bit of content in the defense submission here, but very little when you filter out all the emotional appeals, rhetoric, and non-relevant statements [01:21] phanes the rest after that is just case precedent citations for why a material contest should not take place (anti-slapp) [01:22] phanes it could be that the meat comes out later, im still only a few case files in [01:23] matey this is interesting too, if relevant to anything [01:23] matey www.publicjustice.net/comes-sealing-court-records-presumption-public-access-requires-just-say-no/ [01:23] matey This is actually a fairly new development in the Ninth Circuit. For years, the Court has recognized a common law right of access to court records. (5) Under the common law, court records can be sealed on a showing of a "compelling need" for secrecy sufficient to overcome the public's interest in access. [01:24] matey i guess its easier to seal than ever? from a cursory glance at that [01:24] matey but it could say just the opposite of course [01:25] phanes yeah its kind of bizarre how they're holding public interest to include "accusing someone of being a rapist with no direct evidence" but also holding it to be excluding things like critical testimony to establish credible merits of a case involving that same interest [01:25] matey im not even looking to see if these are in the right country, unless it says something like "british" or "co.uk" and thus obviously doesnt pertain to usa [01:26] matey its possible theyre only sealing certain items that pertain to actual personal privacy [01:26] matey like the name of a jane doe mentioned somewhere [01:26] phanes i would hold that to be a matter of publiuc interest as well [01:27] phanes *public [01:27] matey of course this nearly implies i have faith in the system-- actually, i simply consider that even a broken system gets something right occasionally [01:27] phanes for the same reasons that the case files themselves are [01:27] matey i would hold that to be a matter of publiuc interest as well <- i would expect there to be differences of opinion about this [01:28] matey public interest i suppose, is everything be public. all sealed documents would be exceptions, based on certain criteria [01:28] matey so it may be in the public interest, its simply a matter of what criteria are deemed most important for inclusion/exclusion [01:28] matey which i expect to vary among different people [01:29] matey its sort of the job of a court to (ultimately) choose a side/verdict or even to choose when not to choose [01:29] phanes yeah [01:29] DaemonFC The list of "Debian suicides and accidents" is a bit ridiculous. [01:29] phanes for the purposes of this i dont see any path forward but to note it and then not factor in sealed testimony or evidence [01:29] DaemonFC They just follow people around making car accidents happen, apparently. [01:29] matey but lets say for the sake of argument that it was a decision that tried to balance public interest and corporate interest [01:29] matey naturally i would assume they side with the corporations (more often than not) [01:29] matey since those are their real masters [01:30] matey im not sure whether that relates to this instance but i dont assume it does [01:32] DaemonFC schestowitz The cops on Grindr thing really cracks me up. [01:33] matey but to note it and then not factor in sealed testimony <- if i had to guess, they havent sealed any information you couldnt extrapolate from another source [01:33] matey its a barrier, but a barrier to something that isnt top secret after all [01:33] DaemonFC Like, if the conversation starts out with or leads to someone you don't know in a chat box on your phone asking if you'd participate in an action that is obviously illegal, why would you talk to them? [01:33] DaemonFC Why wouldn't you hit "block user" immediately? [01:33] matey maybe it would lead to another clue, maybe it wouldnt [01:33] matey at a guess, youre not missing much [01:34] matey "this is the one piece of information they need to solve the mystery!" "oh, better seal that then! after all, we totally give a shit about these complete strangers on both sides" [01:34] DaemonFC Interacting with the fake accounts at all is a mistake, because as soon as you do, they'll all start messaging you more. [01:34] DaemonFC THen you'll have to start blocking dozens of them. [01:34] matey im being a little cynical, but this (imo) is probably realistic (except for the jokey sarcasm meant to illustrate likelihoods etc) [01:35] DaemonFC The police accounts usually go for "sex with a minor", but then if they give up, windows will start appearing offering you drugs. [01:35] matey if this were a corporate case, throw out all benefit of the doubt and assume the fucking worst [01:35] matey and obvoiusly if you want to factor in 3rd party corporate sponsor/testimony you can do that too. i probably wouldnt, but maybe it depends on the mood im in [01:37] DaemonFC It's very important that they string you as far along with it as possible before the arrest. The longer you go along with it and with the less prompting, the lower and lower the odds you'll claim entrapment later. Like, they'd say meet up at a Wendy's so that they can throw in more charges (traveling) and show that you did something other than "talk". I've noticed how they operate, and none... [01:37] DaemonFC ...of that was new with Grindr. They just took what they were doing before and started doing it on Grindr. [01:38] DaemonFC Their tactics don't really have to change because people now are as stupid as they ever were, maybe more. [01:38] DaemonFC schestowitz Something really is going on with the "labor market". [01:39] DaemonFC Probably not what the "news" keeps saying. [01:39] DaemonFC Taco Bell almost had to close yesterday because it was down to just the manager and one other person and she had to go help make burritos and stuff. She told everyone coming in to use the kiosk or they couldn't order anything because she didn't have anyone to run the register. [01:40] DaemonFC I doubt they're hiring and "can't find anyone". It's more like, "labor is getting more expensive so now in addition to being the manager and making burritos, you don't have a cashier. Congratulations on the raise!". [01:41] matey you could easily spend days just reading shit on sealed, unsealed, sealing and unsealing documents at various levels of various courts [01:42] matey not surprising-- simplicity for a lawyer is like [01:42] phanes half of reichwein's defense submissions detail twitter posts that reichwein made accusing appelbaum of things, almost like they are anticipating that appelbaum will provide supporting testimoney on todd's behalf [01:42] matey "i know darth vader really has you annoyed, but remember if you kill him then youll be unemployed"-- weird al, [01:42] matey yoda" [01:43] matey almost like they are anticipating that appelbaum will provide supporting testimoney <- i bet that wasnt hard to foresee [01:43] matey hell it was probably discussed on twitter. these are tech people not lawyers [01:43] matey and there are probably several impulsive people on both sides [01:44] matey a less impulsive person would talk to a lawyer, THEN be told "dont say anything now" then actually follow the advice [01:44] phanes its just bizarre that so many of these supporting evidnece submissions by the defense in a defamation case brought on by todd would be twitter posts by reichwein/lovecruft accusing appelbaum of things, and not todd [01:44] matey who knows if anyone did any of those. let alone all 3 [01:45] matey "and not todd" <- i dunno, maybe thats how the evidence actually is (proportionally) [01:45] DaemonFC A good attorney will tell you that if you're the defendant, you don't say anything unless it's through them. [01:45] matey or maybe some attorney thought that was a great strategy [01:45] schestowitz[TR2] Probably not what the "news" keeps saying. [01:45] schestowitz[TR2] an oligarch's noise [01:46] matey or maybe the todd stuff is exactly what got sealed, while the applelbaum stuff was-- already in public testimony, so sealing it would be like sealing information about nixon being involved with watergate [01:46] matey an oligarch's noise <- whats that [01:46] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [01:46] matey /mw wonders if it sounds like the model t again [01:47] phanes matey, tht certainly could be the case. im sure reasons will pop out as references to submissions are made in documents further along in the timeline [01:47] DaemonFC schestowitz This apartment isn't in the most fantastic neighborhood. There's gang wars going on now. Someone shot one of their muckity mucks at a gas station the other day. [01:47] DaemonFC 50 years and plenty of humidity and leaky faucets and shit have taken their toll on the unit. [01:47] DaemonFC But we'll probably sign another lease. [01:47] matey i bet if you just work around it youll come across exactly the same information without trying [01:47] DaemonFC I just don't see an alternative that's not worse in some way. [01:48] matey how youll know its the same information is another matter-- though not important to the point imo [01:48] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [01:48] DaemonFC The check engine light on the Buick is on. [01:48] DaemonFC I'm suspecting there's a vacuum line leak somewhere. [01:48] DaemonFC I'm gonna have them smoke test it. [01:49] DaemonFC Well, it came on and went off. [01:49] DaemonFC The car was telling me check gas cap again. I went through three of them and put an OEM one on finally and it stopped saying that for a few months. [01:49] phanes it's an old buick, those things run on damned souls anyway, you'll get another 50 years out of it with the CE light on [01:49] DaemonFC After I filled up this afternoon it hasn't said anything like that again. [01:49] DaemonFC Yeah, but I can't pass emissions. [01:50] DaemonFC Maybe I can eek by if it's an occasional problem. [01:50] matey those things run on damned souls anyway <- i dont think we will hit peak damned souls anytime soon [01:50] DaemonFC Fuel is more stable in the winter than in the summer. [01:50] phanes oh are you in one of those states that thinks the right to travel is not a right to travel [01:50] matey why are the green energy people not touting this [01:50] DaemonFC Just go get my smog test done in January when the car's not doing it. [01:50] DaemonFC But if it's something cheap, I'll just go ahead and fix it. [01:50] matey oh, probably because its their souls too [01:51] DaemonFC The administration has been demanding more and more of this ethanol 15 stuff. [01:51] DaemonFC And that's especially unstable in the Summer, which is why they weren't selling it. [01:51] DaemonFC So if they're sneaking it in on us, it could very well be leaking past the cap and causing the engine lights to come on. [01:52] matey the primary drain on energy ressources is INVADE ALL THE THINGS! [01:52] matey increase your tyre pressure-- save some oil-- kill some civilians in a distant land [01:53] matey an earth day message from the dept of defense [01:54] matey lower your tyre pressure, starve a drone [01:54] phanes yeah imagine if they diverted all those defense budgets to building terraforming technology and offworld mining [01:55] matey lower your tyre pressure, starve a drone <- this wont work, but its kind of funny [01:56] DaemonFC https://danielpocock.com/ubuntu-underage-girl-debian-mass-resignations/ [01:56] TR Bot Ubuntu Underage Girl & Debian Mass Resignations [01:57] DaemonFC Is he alleging that they're using the Outreach to Women thing to sex traffic teenage girls? [01:58] matey :) theres a "yolo" county in davis california [01:58] matey i bet theres a shitload of dumb people doing dumb shit there [01:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 34.50 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.06 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [01:59] matey "welcome to yolo-- home of the tide pod challenge" [01:59] TR News Kernel prepatch 5.19-rc8 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167613#comment-34424 ● Jul 25 [02:00] matey its situation between omg county (a very posh suburb of yolo) and wtf county [02:00] TR News Delete Windows and get an OS made to actually work for YOU https://www.maketecheasier.com/windows-11-search-bar-not-working/ [02:00] matey omg county recently had a failed petition to change its name to o...m...g... [02:00] TR Bot LKML: Linus Torvalds: Linux 5.19-rc8 | Tux Machines [02:00] TR Bot Windows 11 Search Bar Not Working? Here's 9 Ways to Fix It - Make Tech Easier [02:01] DaemonFC Mozilla is turning into more and more of a joke all the time. [02:01] schestowitz[TR2] because talent lkeave [02:01] DaemonFC Who outsources all of their infrastructure to the company that already killed Netscape and the company that's currently wiping out their only real product? [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] it'as ann inertia thing [02:02] matey whos ann inertia [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] sorry, typos [02:02] matey /me checks ao [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] orgs that loise talent [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] and elevate shits [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] drain our all remaining people [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] morale [02:02] DaemonFC They're putting MDN behind a paywall now. [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] and only the shit stays [02:02] schestowitz[TR2] a death spiral [02:02] matey nothing yet https://www.abuseonline.org/database/secondary-actors/Inertia,%20Ann/ [02:02] TR Bot ( status 404 @ https://www.abuseonline.org/database/secondary-actors/Inertia,%20Ann/ ) [02:03] DaemonFC You didn't really need to pay to learn HTML 3.2, or even 4. [02:03] DaemonFC 3.2 was so simple you could learn it pretty much by looking at the document that defined the standard. [02:03] DaemonFC Without buying a shitload of expensive books. [02:03] matey orgs that loise talent <- sfc, fsf, yolo... [02:04] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:04] matey id say osi because bullshit is a talent [02:04] DaemonFC The idiots that wanted to do "semantic web" stuff in XHTML finally rode again and got it into HTML 5. [02:04] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [02:05] matey microsoft initiative [02:05] DaemonFC We're well past Web languages having any clear meaning as to what happens when you go to use something. [02:05] TR News NuTyX 22.07.0 available with cards 2.5.4 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167615 [02:05] TR Bot NuTyX 22.07.0 available with cards 2.5.4 | Tux Machines [02:06] DaemonFC schestowitz I think almost everyone is walking on thin ice these days. [02:06] matey remember that story where microsoft completely took something over, but then after that it was fine? [02:07] matey me neither [02:07] DaemonFC Everyone is in a pissed off mood and just quick to get what they're doing done so they can go home. [02:07] schestowitz[TR2] DaemonFC: we are doing ok. [02:07] schestowitz[TR2] because e spend so little [02:07] DaemonFC The demeanor of the people I run into is really really bad. [02:07] schestowitz[TR2] btw, what I said about abour orgs collapsing like that [02:07] schestowitz[TR2] a la mozilla [02:07] schestowitz[TR2] happened in our company 3 years ago [02:07] schestowitz[TR2] and I plan to leave by year's end [02:07] DaemonFC schestowitz Did you have a chance to skim over the Monkeypox post? [02:08] DaemonFC I was trying to avoid allegations of homophobia, but whenever you touch an issue like this, look out. [02:08] schestowitz[TR2] I see it in my rss reader now [02:08] schestowitz[TR2] will readit in a moment [02:08] matey they should have taken the mission more siriusly [02:08] schestowitz[TR2] first the urgent stuff, releases... [02:09] schestowitz[TR2] bulletin cutoff 30 mins [02:09] schestowitz[TR2] need to hurry [02:09] schestowitz[TR2] biab [02:09] DaemonFC People don't need a good reason to attack you over it. I got accused of being an anti-vaxxer the other day and banned from an entire Discord server for saying there was no compelling medical reason to get circumcised. [02:09] schestowitz[TR2] was working 4 nights ina row (work) [02:09] schestowitz[TR2] off work now till weds [02:09] DaemonFC When the topic came up somehow. [02:10] DaemonFC I have no idea what the fuck is going on with the Gates Foundation doing circumcisions in Africa. [02:10] DaemonFC It hasn't helped. [02:10] DaemonFC AIDS is worse than ever and they got at least 12 million people roped in with that, probably more. [02:10] TR News "Josh and Kurt talk about Microsoft creating a policy of not allowing anyone to charge for open source in their app store" https://opensourcesecurity.io/2022/07/24/episode-333-open-source-is-unfair/ Microsoft are criminals. NEVER LET criminals make the rules!!!! [02:10] TR Bot Episode 333 Open Source is unfair Open Source Security [02:10] matey open source eats its own [02:11] matey usually that pertains to other people, but i suppose it could also refer to an org collapsing [02:11] DaemonFC No, people who are not even "open source" people come along and start infighting, and then leave and let communities collapse. [02:11] matey "lets just gnaw on these supporting beams" "sure, why not? they look tasty to me!" [02:11] TR News How to install Krita on Pop!_OS 22.04 - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=09kjvKMqCrg | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/09kjvKMqCrg [02:11] TR Bot How to install Krita on Pop!_OS 22.04 - Invidious [02:12] DaemonFC Mr. GULAG, legend in his own mind, thinks he contributes a lot to that. [02:12] *darwin (~darwin@7d3n498busjrn.irc) has joined #techrights [02:12] DaemonFC But it's really Microsoft and a paid troll army of people like him. [02:14] DaemonFC schestowitz I mentioned on my blog that there's only 3-4 Web sites I even use anymore with any frequency. [02:14] DaemonFC It's gotten this bad. [02:14] DaemonFC The government gives it away so people get brainwashed and spied on. [02:14] schestowitz[TR2] same here, except RSS [02:14] DaemonFC There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch [02:14] XRevan86 DaemonFC: Maybe they don't want to admit that their own genitals were operated on for no good reason. [02:14] DaemonFC Very easy to keep the poors under control. [02:15] DaemonFC Give away "free" internet so they don't dump it trying to save a little money and start thinking too much. [02:15] TR News Audiocasts/Shows: GNU World Order, Krita, Microsoft Attacking Free Softare, and More Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167616 [02:15] schestowitz[TR2] typo [02:16] TR Bot Audiocasts/Shows: GNU World Order, Krita, Microsoft Attacking Free Softare, and More | Tux Machines [02:16] TR News Why Wayland Merges Compositing & Window Managers - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=mjNlkcYNTcY | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/mjNlkcYNTcY [02:16] TR Bot Why Wayland Merges Compositing & Window Managers - Invidious [02:17] TR News "Thoughts on the gay community and Monkeypox as experts recommend vaccination to gay men first. WARNING: This post will be controversial and likely offensive to LGBT people. Im gay myself, and I dont like what Im seeing" https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/07/24/thoughts-on-monkeypox-as-experts-recommend-vaccination-to-gay-men-first-plus-why-monkeypox-is-in-the-media-in-the-first-place/ [02:17] TR Bot Thoughts on Monkeypox as experts recommend vaccination to gay men first. Plus: Why Monkeypox is in the media in the first place. BaronHK's Rants [02:20] matey protip: if success is the goal, dont give your company "SOS" as initials [02:20] matey /me doesnt think roy will take it personally if hes out anyway [02:21] matey if its been like that for 3 years we are already at the cynical stage of things [02:22] TR News Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167617 [02:22] TR Bot today's howtos | Tux Machines [02:22] TR News The 4 Best MP3 Tag and Metadata Editors for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167618 [02:22] TR Bot The 4 Best MP3 Tag and Metadata Editors for Linux | Tux Machines [02:24] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:25] DaemonFC I found another dangling part of the SeaMonkey GUI left over from a long time ago that does not do anything now. [02:25] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [02:25] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [02:25] DaemonFC The address book has an "IM" button and it apparently launched whatever was setup to handle "aim" at one point. :) [02:25] TR News 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167619 [02:25] TR Bot 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On | Tux Machines [02:25] schestowitz[TR2] matey: ^ [02:25] TR News Kate 22.08 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167620 [02:25] TR Bot Kate 22.08 | Tux Machines [02:28] phanes matey, no reference to missing exhibits in reichwein motion to strike [02:28] TR News Morale low, not many people attended at all. Maybe that's what happens when SPI bags bribes from Microsoft and then pays lawyers to take volunteers' sites OFFLINE https://www.debian.org/News/2022/20220724 [02:28] TR Bot Debian -- News -- DebConf22 closes in Prizren and DebConf23 dates announced [02:28] matey i dont know how that works. maybes its recursive and they seal the motion to seal [02:28] matey which would be terrible for record keeping but that assumes record keeping is based on the public view, and i bet its not [02:29] matey though id just assume bet its arbitrary [02:29] matey also showing WHO motioned to seal seems... telling? [02:29] matey which in a reasonable world (heh) they WOULD seal as its a big fucking hint (i guess?) [02:29] matey if i actually knew about this shit, i could do better [02:30] phanes matey, maybe; the motion references all exhibits present in her testimony but none of the sealed ones, even passively [02:30] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:30] matey but ive learned at least one thing: sealed doc in an UNsealed case are a thing [02:30] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [02:30] matey the motion references all exhibits present in her testimony but none of the sealed ones, even passively <- sure, why not [02:31] phanes im not getting the impression these are sealed but that they were removed before subnmitting and not cleaned up [02:31] TR News Counterculture should not mean being "weird" but being against an unjust system that mistreats and abuses people [02:32] matey that sounds really sloppy [02:32] matey does that happen? [02:32] phanes yeah anybody sucks at editing documents can do that [02:32] matey hmm [02:32] matey news to me [02:32] DaemonFC https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/07/24/waukegan-man-armed-with-knife-allegedly-threatened-to-kill-family-members-after-finding-his-pizza-had-been-eaten/ [02:32] TR Bot Waukegan man armed with knife allegedly threatened to kill family members after finding his pizza had been eaten [02:33] phanes its like removing a chapter of content in a book youre writing and forgetting to remove it from the table of contents [02:33] phanes i can see in the case records motions to seal and they leave a whole for sealed documents so its obvious when the court sealed something [02:33] phanes these are just simply not present [02:33] phanes in a document that is present [02:34] TR News Open Source is NOT a movement. It's NOT just another name/term for Free software. If you think it is, you live decades in the past. [02:34] TR News Review: EndeavourOS 22.6 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167621 [02:34] phanes *hole [02:34] TR News LINMOB.net - Weekly GNU-like Mobile Linux Update (29/2022): postmarketOS 22.06.1 for (PinePhone) Pros Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167622 [02:34] TR News Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167623 [02:34] TR Bot Review: EndeavourOS 22.6 | Tux Machines [02:35] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights [02:35] TR Bot LINMOB.net - Weekly GNU-like Mobile Linux Update (29/2022): postmarketOS 22.06.1 for (PinePhone) Pros | Tux Machines [02:35] TR News Mobile is pronounced mob aisle, as it's an aisle through which a corporate MOB abuses the supposed 'owner' of the device [02:35] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@5tcc2vuaj9aks.irc) has joined #techrights [02:36] TR Bot Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines [02:36] TR News Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social and #techpol IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-social-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-social-240722.txt [02:36] TR Bot IRC: #boycottnovell-social and #techpol @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022 [02:37] TR News Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techrights-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-240722.txt [02:37] TR Bot IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022 [02:37] matey the latest version of gnu parallel is called "roe vs wade" https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/parallel.git [02:37] TR Bot parallel.git - parallel [02:38] TR News Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-240722.txt [02:38] TR Bot IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022 [02:40] TR News Yesterday's #techbytes IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-240722.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-240722.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techbytes-240722.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techbytes-240722.txt [02:40] TR Bot IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022 [02:40] TR News | Gemini address: [02:40] TR News Links 25/07/2022: NuTyX 22.07.0 and Last RC for Upcoming Linux Release | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/24/nutyx-22-07-0/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/24/nutyx-22-07-0/ [02:40] TR Bot Links 25/07/2022: NuTyX 22.07.0 and Last RC for Upcoming Linux Release | Techrights [02:40] schestowitz[TR2] no wade, roy! [02:40] TR News Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167624 [02:40] TR News Yesterday's bulletin is now ready! : http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2022-07-24.txt | gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/techrights-2022-07-24.txt (tentative address, to work an hour from now) [02:41] TR Bot today's leftovers | Tux Machines [02:42] *matey has quit (connection closed) [02:42] TR News "after almost 3 years of Covid, lockdowns and more." COVID-19 is NOT over, folks. https://laysrodriguesdev.wordpress.com/2022/07/24/im-going-to-akademy-2022/ [02:42] TR Bot Im going to Akademy 2022 Lays Rodrigues [02:43] TR News "The second sub-activity of the first activity is swapping the number cards to make consecutive cards 10s complements of each other" https://samarthrajwrites.wordpress.com/2022/07/25/swapping-tens-complement-week-6-7/ [02:43] TR Bot Swapping tens complements: Week 6 & 7 Samarth raj [02:45] *matey (~matey@bh5jyjy7qts7w.irc) has joined #techrights [02:45] matey http://www.tuxmachines.org/print/167619 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On [02:45] TR Bot 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On [02:45] matey thats an accurate article [02:46] matey there are no "proven" systemd-free "linux distributions" you can rely on [02:46] matey and there are none listed [02:46] matey but the title is wrong [02:46] schestowitz[TR2] e love alpine [02:46] schestowitz[TR2] one nice-to-have would be manpages [02:46] schestowitz[TR2] they're missing by defauslt [02:46] schestowitz[TR2] default [02:46] matey well the biggest problem with alpine is the kernel, but i said that already [02:46] schestowitz[TR2] apk let's you add what's missing [02:46] matey and i said it wasnt their fault [02:46] schestowitz[TR2] and cpan [02:47] matey if the linux kernel is a [02:47] matey the article lists no distributions-- work in progress? [02:47] matey oh ok its a link to this https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/ [02:47] TR Bot 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On [02:48] matey i looked for that, didnt find it the first time [02:48] matey hmm [02:48] MinceR they also keep writing "ID 1" when they mean "PID 1" [02:48] matey 1. none are alpine 2. ive used three of the 5 3. that does it for me [02:49] matey void: no | devuan: no | mx: no [02:49] schestowitz[TR2] matey: id mubarak [02:49] schestowitz[TR2] MinceR I meant [02:49] matey accidental hindi? [02:50] matey roy you just said "id congratulations" more or less [02:50] matey xrevan can probably correct further [02:51] schestowitz[TR2] matey: eid [02:51] matey as he seems to basically be real lifes answer to the star trek universal translator [02:51] schestowitz[TR2] pid [02:51] schestowitz[TR2] eid [02:51] schestowitz[TR2] id [02:51] matey (other than google and whatever else) [02:52] matey Nitrux is based on Debians unstable branch <- nope! [02:52] matey and slackware, which is the entry that offends me the least, but i just cant be arsed [02:52] matey my associates dont seem to care for it, fwtw [02:52] TR News "People aged under 40 should not drink alcohol and consumption guidelines should be changed, study says" gemini://midnight.pub/posts/1084 [02:53] TR News
    [02:53] TR News [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/sneps/D302.jpg [02:53] TR News [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D653.jpg [02:53] matey i ditched void because (like mx, also listed) its entirely based on github [02:54] TR News Putting ourselves out of business gemini://alexschroeder.ch/page/2022-07-24%20Putting%20ourselves%20out%20of%20business [02:54] matey its also just a pain in the fucking arse. but mincer likes it, and hes hard to please, so thats a point for void next to the one against [02:54] MinceR well, i'm not 100% satisfied with it either [02:55] MinceR but i haven't found a GNU/Linux distro i like more, unless i count Bedrock, but Bedrock still depends on Void the way i use it [02:55] matey from you that could be a cash prize [02:55] TR News "We may have become a bit plant obsessed as of late. This weekend we picked up the following plants for our yard and future garden..." gemini://gemini.cyberbot.space/gemlog/2022-07-24-plants.gmi growing one's own food is commendable! [02:55] MinceR i'll still need to figure out how to produce an initramfs that does the right thing with FDE [02:55] matey "the mincer test" [02:55] matey "im not 100% satisfied" SHIP IT! [02:56] matey "what if he hates it" "then we do another rc, until weve done at least 5, then we ship anyway" [02:56] TR News "We are hoping to be able to cultivate a nice collection of edibles on our property over time. So far we have 7 different plants that are edible, maybe 8 if you count Hibiscus. Right now the edibles we have are 2 guava trees, 2 varieties of mint, basil, cocoplum, prickly pear, lime and calamondin." gemini://gemini.cyberbot.space/gemlog/2022-07-24-plants.gmi [02:57] TR News As the price of food goes up, so will the incentive to grow one's own food. As the prices of energy soar (scam, cartel, price-fixing, faked shortages, at least partly) efficient devices, inc. computers, will become more attractive. The latter helps GNU/Linux. [02:59] TR News Ask advices about smartphone changing when you try to remove Google of your life gemini://midnight.pub/posts/1085 [02:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 34.50 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.06 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [03:00] TR News Gulag (or GAFAM) does not enhance your life. Looking up stuff on the Web is no longer search, it's too heavily curated and manipulated. It manipulates YOU. [03:03] matey https://linuxiac.com/best-systemd-free-linux-distributions/ [03:03] TR Bot 5 Best Proven Systemd-Free Linux Distributions You Can Rely On [03:03] matey so heres what i did about systemd [03:03] matey in 2014, i used debian stable mostly-- and on my main development machine i used testing [03:03] matey i did an update, rc.local was disabled (but still set executable) [03:03] matey and nothing told me why [03:04] matey note that you have to manually respond to something as revolutionary as tzdata updates [03:04] matey maybe i could have read more, hey, it was testing, but maybe tell me before you disable rc.local with some bullshit [03:05] matey i think they handled it poorly [03:05] matey from then it was pretty much "fuck u, n00b" and i had spent some time collecting computers and giving them away for free to promote debian [03:05] matey i stopped doing that after a couple hours of determining why rc.local mysteriously didnt run on boot [03:06] matey you see i also helped people with these free computers [03:06] matey and i knew the minute i saw systemd that this wasnt debian anymore [03:06] matey debian was a responsible os [03:06] IPFS Gemini requests since start of month: 259085 total Total number of pages in capsule: 41850 Active: active (running) since Fri 2022-05-27 10:17:06 BST; 1 months 28 days ago [03:06] matey and this made it a complete pile of shit-- a decision i havent changed since [03:07] matey it is AGGRESSIVELY a pile of shit, designed to say "fuck you and your mother" to anyone who DOESNT want a pile of shit [03:07] matey it takes YEARS to try to work around this, for some reason. [03:07] matey sure you change pid1 back, but its never the same again [03:07] IPFS IPFS local node stats (bandwidth since last reset) calculated. TotalIn: 13 MB TotalOut: 2.2 MB [03:08] matey systemd behaves like a permanent injury to any distro it infects the developers of [03:08] matey devuans had SO MUCH fun un-eating their shit [03:08] matey but hey, i like a challenge [03:08] IPFS New daily bulletin is now being generated and assembled. [03:09] matey in late feb/early march 2015 i installed devuan on my main dev machine [03:09] matey that was 7 years ago [03:09] matey oh i was excited about devuan initially [03:09] matey i gave money, equipment [03:09] matey tried derivatives, tried to always try the latest version of it [03:10] IPFS QmWkLbREwUBZdex6qeeh1UyUD3GwnNihMfEE28VhuPZYAK [03:10] IPFS New daily bulletin has just been added to IPFS, hereon retrievable with the CID above. [03:10] matey which always sucked more than the pre-alpha roio created in feb 2015 [03:10] matey devuan sucks [03:10] matey roios "not even trying" version was better [03:10] matey he was modest as fuck about it. i dont know WTF they did [03:10] matey i read mailing lists at devuan AND debian endlessly [03:11] matey ive tried a bunch of devuan derives and i swear, derivs of derivs [03:11] matey ive tried devuan competitors [03:12] matey i even remixed debian and live and trisquel live so that they had sysvinit (upstart for trisquel) as pid 1 [03:12] matey in the live image. [03:12] schestowitz[TR2] devuan did not pick up wifi on myn new laptop [03:12] schestowitz[TR2] devuan was my first choice [03:12] matey completely automated-- so that you could redistribute the "distro" as a SCRIPT (hundreds of k) instead of an iso [03:13] matey but more to the point [03:13] matey i spent literally half a decade fighting systemd [03:13] matey and the WHOLE TIME people were saying [03:13] matey this is hopeless, just use bsd, this will kill gnu/linux [03:13] matey ive been hearing that since 2014. [03:14] matey this is from former debian users like myself. [03:14] matey but when im determined, i put the effort in [03:14] matey half a decade is long enough to fight a piece of shit like systemd for me [03:14] matey toward the end i started lamenting that bsd probably wasnt ready [03:15] matey it wouldnt do what i needed [03:15] matey but id like to move someday [03:15] matey eventually i got bored (and ran out of good base distros to remaster into my os of choice) [03:15] matey and i finally decided to try freebsd [03:15] matey why freebsd-- the three biggest are free, net, open [03:16] matey open is the closest to hyperbola, the only fsf-esque bsd project from fsf-blessed devs [03:16] matey open is what they base hyperbola on [03:16] matey i saved it for last [03:16] matey if it didnt work, and i was sure it wasnt ready-- id be sad [03:16] matey very sad [03:16] MinceR 25 041244 < schestowitz[TR2]> devuan did not pick up wifi on myn new laptop [03:17] MinceR they don't ship nonfree firmware in the installer [03:17] MinceR which is sometimes painful [03:17] matey openbsd is based on netbsd, so its the next closest [03:17] MinceR i used to work around this using Wi-Pi [03:17] matey they don't ship nonfree firmware in the installer <- they did initially [03:17] matey youre thinking of debian. devuan adds that stuff [03:17] matey unless this has changed [03:17] MinceR i thought devuan did the same [03:17] matey actually centaurian dan, who makes the non-live installer [03:18] matey demanded that they include those drivers/modules/fw or he refused to work on it [03:18] matey so thats always been in devuan [03:18] MinceR :> [03:18] matey but that also means its less free than debian [03:18] matey in an rms way [03:19] matey but yeah copying fw over usb is FUN [03:19] matey especially since the installer isnt a full live a lot of the time [03:19] matey and when it is, you have other problems [03:19] matey fucking debian [03:19] mjg59_ phanes: Again, going to ask you to stop deadnaming people [03:20] matey not a joke, when referring to a court document, and not simply in social interactions [03:20] matey arent there situations where using someones legal name is warranted? [03:20] matey and why is this not one of them [03:20] mjg59_ matey: Yeah, this is one of them [03:20] matey in general, i think deadnaming should be avoided for the same reasons you think so [03:21] mjg59_ Eh let me rephrase that [03:21] mjg59_ I think I ended up eliding some nuance there [03:22] matey /me would rather there be guidelines on this most people can agree on and be happy with, whether or not they are followed [03:22] matey most people (including those with the deadnames, of course) [03:24] matey i tried freebsd, and it actually gave me a lot of hope [03:24] matey at least at first [03:24] matey i knew it was the farthest (of 3) from what i wanted to actually move to [03:24] mjg59_ "Legal name" isn't a completely solid concept in the US - there's a variety of ways to express names, and there may be inconsistencies there (eg, people may gain addional names for extra-legal reasons - it's not unusual for Catholics to adopt an additional name after confirmation) [03:24] matey but thats why i tried it first-- if it sucked, no big loss [03:25] matey "Legal name" isn't a completely solid concept in the US <- how about the name on the document / case name then [03:25] mjg59_ But the name that is used in court filings does not need to represent what's on someone's birth certificate (eg, a lawsuit against a company may not involve any humans at all) [03:25] phanes mjg59_, again, it appears to be the legal name of the person we're talking about. if you have a proof of name change, which is a completely solid concept in the US, then I am happy to update. Until then I assume you're just looking for a way to stir a victim profile to your current position of being held accountable. [03:25] phanes real names will be used on this [03:26] mjg59_ "real names"? [03:26] phanes yes and i have almost no patience for any squirming around to try to obfuscate the real identies of who is involved [03:27] mjg59_ The name used on a court filing is a name that identifies the individual [03:27] matey freebsd worked better than i hoped, but not as well as i needed, and even if it DID work as i needed, it was NOT what i wanted (i knew that before installing) [03:27] phanes mjg59_, that's the name being used [03:27] mjg59_ phanes: Yes, but you're not a court [03:27] matey but i was having fun, so i tried to install it on more machines [03:27] mjg59_ phanes: And the name is clearly corrected in later filings [03:28] phanes mjg59_, ive made my position clear on this, evidence of name change, or steam about it [03:28] phanes mjg59_, in any case, can you comment on who captured this screenshot in exhibit 9: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.20.3.pdf [03:28] phanes was that captured from "lovecruft"'s phone? [03:28] mjg59_ phanes: eg, https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf - the court refers to the defendant as Lovecruft [03:28] mjg59_ phanes: You picking a name other than the name the court is perfectly happy to use is a choice on your part [03:28] matey i wasnt able to get freebsd working equally well on each machine i tried it on [03:29] matey and even if i did, it wasnt what i wanted [03:29] matey too close to github [03:29] MinceR how did freebsd go? [03:29] mjg59_ phanes: I have no idea whatsoever where that was captured from [03:29] matey usably, but on some machines it didnt install properly [03:29] phanes mjg59_, how convenient. [03:29] schestowitz[TR2] MinceR: to Microsoft [03:30] matey but now the ball was rolling, and freebsd went better than expected, so [03:30] matey fuck it, lets see if netbsd works better on the machines where freebsd didnt [03:30] matey netbsd is what openbsd is forked from, and its farther from github than freebsd [03:30] matey so its the #2 option for me [03:30] matey in terms of what i tried and in terms of rank [03:31] MinceR schestowitz[TR2]: i know that, i'm asking about how it worked on the PC(s) it was tested on [03:31] matey netbsd got me farther than freebsd, and it was closer to what i wanted anyway [03:31] matey note that im very aware that a different collection of machines could have yielded different results [03:31] matey its a bit arbitrary, i suppose-- but its what ive got [03:31] phanes mjg59_, any way to find out? [03:32] phanes it is a rather pivotal detail [03:32] matey there was ONE machine i coudlnt coax netbsd onto [03:32] mjg59_ phanes: You could ask them? [03:32] matey so i bit the bullet and tried openbsd [03:32] matey it had the least annoying / intricate installer [03:32] phanes mjg59_, is it an obvious enough thing that you understand why I'm asking? [03:32] mjg59_ phanes: Not really, no [03:32] matey it worked on the machine that freebsd and netbsd didnt like [03:32] matey for whatever reason [03:32] matey on x86 it works REALLY well for me [03:33] phanes mjg59_, look at the colors and page orientation of the messages [03:33] matey for sbcs the documentation is terrible and my associates recommend netbsd for that, for now [03:33] matey at least some do [03:33] matey id rather use openbsd but if netbsd is easier for someone else on an sbc, it could be true for me [03:34] matey so netbsd (under protest) for sbcs, i guess [03:34] matey openbsd for everything else, and ideally everything [03:34] matey i migrated coming up on 2 years ago [03:34] matey so 13 years since gnu/linux migration [03:34] mjg59_ phanes: I have no knowledge whatsoever of where those pictures came from [03:34] matey 5 years fighting systemd [03:34] matey 2 years since i left gnu/linux behind [03:35] phanes mjg59_, but i thought you were familiar with the details of this case [03:35] matey given all that strife [03:35] TR News LOL. How to destroy GNU/Linux. https://unixcop.com/how-to-install-microsoft-powershell-on-ubuntu-22-04/ [03:35] mjg59_ phanes: But I am aware that you continue to deadname a trans person [03:35] TR Bot How to install Microsoft PowerShell on Ubuntu 22.04 - Unix / Linux the admins Tutorials [03:35] matey when someone says "here are 5 systemd-free distros" [03:35] phanes mjg59_, ive made my position clear on this, evidence of name change, or steam about it [03:35] matey its like looking for a light and someone offering me a couple pieces of flint [03:35] phanes i dont care at all about your perception of "deadnaming" until I see any evidence at all that their legal name has changed [03:35] matey been there, done that, no thanks [03:36] matey ive done all the lion-taming i care to with gnu/penguinshit [03:36] phanes mjg59_, if you would like to provide that evidence, even in private, i can update [03:36] mjg59_ phanes: You have a court order in which a judge uses their actual name, and that's insufficient? [03:36] matey i longed to be rid of it, im rid of it, im happy [03:36] matey it would be like going back to a shitty ex [03:36] matey but man, i did try. [03:36] matey i tried my fucking arse off [03:37] matey so did devuan and im not sure how much they have to show for it [03:37] matey bragging rights, sure [03:37] mjg59_ phanes: I mean, a court using that name seems to indicate that it's their name [03:37] TR News Windows Defender. LOL. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/775003/been-battling-malware-for-over-a-year-6-laptops-2-desktops-1-phone/ [03:37] TR Bot Been battling malware for over a year 6 laptops 2 desktops 1 phone... - Virus, Trojan, Spyware, and Malware Removal Help [03:37] matey but imo theyre not improving as fast as systemd/linux gets worse [03:37] phanes nice distraction though [03:38] phanes from being asked why you suddenly aren't familiar with the details of the case [03:38] matey so can i recommend gnu/linux to anyone? [03:38] matey i thought "maybe its easier to install / user" [03:38] matey which it is, a bit [03:38] TR News Who does Windows Defender defend? The same company that 'Secure(TM)' boots protects... from competition [03:38] matey im starting to treat gnu/linux like i did with windows [03:38] matey use it, fine, but if you want me to help install bsd of some kind [03:38] mjg59_ phanes: I'm familiar with the details of the case. I wasn't given additional insight into non-public information. [03:39] mjg59_ phanes: But, again, why are you objecting to using a name that a federal court was fine using? [03:39] matey i consider gnu/linux a formerly great os with a kernel that exists to help bring free software down from the inside [03:39] phanes mjg59_, i mean, here we have your fiance submitting evidence, a screenshot of a text message conversation presumably from her phone, that appears to have been captured from the wrong phone, one that would not have been in her possession if her account was accurate [03:40] mjg59_ phanes: and now you're misgendering them [03:40] matey so if people cant get away from gnu/linux, ok, i understand. been there [03:40] phanes and you, being intimately familiar with both the party and the case [03:40] matey they can wait like i waited [03:40] phanes just suddenly don't know anything about it [03:40] phanes s/her/they/ [03:40] matey but if theyre looking for better things [03:40] matey start trying to get bsd running now [03:40] matey when i moved to gnu/linux it was xubuntu and dsl. NOT the best of the best [03:41] matey same with bsd. [03:41] mjg59_ phanes: Cool if you're willing to accept their gender then maybe you can also accept their name? [03:41] matey usage != acceptance [03:41] matey theres overlap, a lot [03:41] mjg59_ Well sure ok he may have issues with acceptance but usage would be fine [03:41] phanes mjg59_, do you also forget pivotal details when you yourself are caught in a lie, or do you only do it when you're covering for someone [03:41] mjg59_ phanes: Hard to forget something I never knew [03:42] phanes seems like it would be trivial for you to get clarification [03:42] phanes as to the name, until i see evidence of a legal name change there will simply not be an update to the name [03:42] mjg59_ phanes: Eh well I tried [03:42] TR News zine-making, and the benefits it provides (in my eyes) gemini://tmo.smol.pub/1658707407 [03:43] phanes mjg59_, no you postured. that's different. [03:43] matey /me picks up the red phone [03:43] mjg59_ Going to be plenty of evidence of you refusing to call a trans person by their proper name [03:43] matey "yeah, i know" [03:43] TR News Re: Gemlog and internet time gemini://eph.smol.pub/1658708695 [03:43] phanes mjg59_, and plenty of evidence requesting evidence of a legal name change. I'm not doing nicknames. [03:44] phanes mjg59_, what you're confused about is that you think your usual tricks will work with me, and it's going to keep jamming you up. [03:44] phanes mjg59_, you're not my first rodeo and you're not even one of the very hard ones. [03:45] phanes in any case, if you want to clarify either of these issues (name change + source of screenshot) I'm happy to receive the clarification for accuracy's sake [03:45] mjg59_ phanes: Oh gosh you think *I'm* the person who'll be your problem here [03:45] phanes nope [03:46] phanes im ready for that too [03:46] phanes you're not my first rodeo, matt. get smart. [03:48] DaemonFC "Don't fuck with me fellas! This ain't mah first time at the rodeo!" [03:48] phanes fo sho' [03:48] phanes Or you and your little posse can continue to underestimate me and save me an enormous amount of work in the process. [03:48] matey phanes: its too bad you took down the patteron information [03:48] matey it looked useful, i even found it helpful-- as a fan of patterson trying to understand her position on these things [03:48] phanes matey, patteron information? [03:48] phanes oh i still have that its just in incubation [03:48] matey in the db-- its gone (or moved to backlog) [03:49] matey what i was going to ask is [03:49] britney matey, what does freebsd have to do with github? [03:49] matey britney: its where some of their stuff is maintained-- including the package manager [03:49] matey a lot of it is only a mirror. [03:49] matey of the following: freebsd, netbsd, openbsd [03:49] matey openbsd is the farthest from github: true mirror only [03:50] matey netbsd is second farthest: it uses gh for donations [03:50] matey freebsd is the closest to github [03:50] matey if the goal is to get as far from github as possible [03:50] matey thats when this information becomes instructive [03:50] matey if thats not the goal, im not sure how much it matters [03:50] matey takeover canary? [03:51] matey my goal is to get away from github. its not my only goal, but ive been working on it since msft purchased them [03:51] britney fair enough [03:51] matey its INSANE that microsoft isnt optional to free software users [03:52] matey i mean, you could mirror everything and lfs [03:52] matey closest thing i know to this is-- voila, openbsd [03:52] matey openbsd also has the distinction of being the most forkable modern os i know [03:52] matey linux isnt. gnu isnt. [03:53] matey if you said "i, britney, will fork an entire modern os this year" [03:53] matey id advise you to use openbsd, because anything else will either be more difficult [03:53] phanes that's a stupid amount of work [03:53] matey or even less mainstream than openbsd [03:53] phanes getting a bootable OS at all is tons of work, maintaining an entire os fork is just not possible for one person [03:53] matey that's a stupid amount of work <- so is doing quantum experiments on cats without peta trying to murder you [03:54] matey but there are other purposes besides ACTUALLY doing it [03:54] MinceR question is, can i fix openbsd [03:54] matey thats a fair question [03:54] matey a fork implies you can maintain it [03:54] matey and for something as big and complex as openbsd [03:54] matey "you" would have to be a number of people [03:54] matey but a smaller number than for gnu/linux [03:54] matey and if you mean you as in your personal workload [03:55] matey that of course, is fair too [03:55] matey so it may not be ready enough for you [03:55] MinceR well, at least with openbsd, there's a good chance upstream will accept my fixes [03:55] MinceR and then the workload is a lot lower [03:55] matey rather my goal is to find the most forkable os in the broadest practical sense [03:55] matey which means some people wont have their needs met by it [03:55] matey there's a good chance upstream will accept my fixes <- a better chance [03:56] matey with linux theres a better chance imo of them making it worse [03:56] matey weve reached peak linux (quality) [03:56] matey maybe not peak adoption, but peak quality [03:56] matey from here, :P [03:57] matey when im migrating to an os-- be it gnu, bsd, whatever [03:57] phanes mjg59_, so tell me who's going to be a problem for me? no doubt some of your activist friends you're coordinating a pile-on with eh? [03:57] matey i want the os that works with most of the software and hw i need [03:57] matey but once ive migrated [03:57] phanes phanes: Oh gosh you think *I'm* the person who'll be your problem here <--- ref [03:57] matey i want the software and hardware that works best with the os ive chocsen [03:57] matey neither "mode" is 100% over the other [03:57] matey but one is predominant and nearly 100% over the other [03:58] mjg59_ phanes: I'm just saying that deliberately deadnaming someone undermines the claim that you're engaged in the persuit of justice [03:58] matey people in the pre-migration stage often have more "needs" than they have once theyve migrated [03:58] matey thats why i spent so many years moving to gnu/linux [03:58] matey i was moving all my tasks from one to the other [03:58] matey including the ones id never need again [03:58] matey because how would i know [03:58] phanes mjg59_, well, no you're saying that (1) there will be a problem for me and (2) it won't be from you, implying that it will be from someone else. Who is that someone else? [03:59] mjg59_ phanes: It's an indiciation to the people that you seek to turn against me that you're not actually on their side [03:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 148.10 [03:59] mjg59_ phanes: The people who are pro-deadnaming already hate me [03:59] matey id already moved all my programming to gnu/linux BEFORE i learned python [03:59] matey python would have made that a fuck of a lot easier ● Jul 25 [04:00] mjg59_ phanes: So if you actually want to change public opinion against me, appearing to be on their side isn't going to do much for you [04:00] phanes mjg59_, "deadnaming" is only "deadnaming" if it's their legal name not being used. Not using someone's nickname in a formal publication about legal proceedings and serious public interest matters is not that. [04:00] mjg59_ phanes: You can certainly hold that opinion, but nobody that actually matters agrees with you [04:00] phanes mjg59_, oh so "the little people" will be the only ones who agree eh? [04:01] phanes in any case, it sounds like you're trying to rehash that old "we are the real victims here" approach that's worked out so well for you so far [04:01] phanes classic darvo [04:01] matey the definition of deadnaming absolutely includes what mjg is talking about [04:02] matey the question is when is it reasonable (if ever) to deadname [04:02] phanes it's not inappropriate to use someone's legal name [04:02] schestowitz[TR2] keeping track opf people who change name [04:02] matey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadnaming <- wikipedia is never wrong [04:02] TR Bot Deadnaming - Wikipedia [04:02] schestowitz[TR2] as past words/actions matter [04:02] phanes especially when covering issues of public interest [04:02] schestowitz[TR2] misnomers don't help either [04:02] DaemonFC https://wgntv.com/news/trending/woman-blames-social-media-trend-after-would-be-thieves-attempt-to-steal-kia-by-exploiting-security-flaw/ [04:02] TR Bot Woman blames social-media trend after would-be thieves attempt to steal Kia by exploiting security flaw | WGN-TV [04:02] britney phanes, its inappropriate if the court uses their new name [04:02] schestowitz[TR2] like misnaming people or the practice [04:02] schestowitz[TR2] "dead" [04:02] mjg59_ phanes: What's your basis for asserting that it's not their legal name? [04:03] mjg59_ phanes: A federal court used that name [04:03] schestowitz[TR2] to connect the past to the present sometimes you deal with multiple names, as do authorities [04:03] DaemonFC Calling people by their legal name isn't a crime. [04:03] DaemonFC Nor is making up a name to parody them with, such as Mr. GULAG. [04:03] mjg59_ phanes: I mean literally the US government used that name [04:03] mjg59_ phanes: So what definition are you working on here? [04:03] phanes mjg59_, the fact that the court has submitted several summons and documents using the reichwein name as well as submissions and the findings of private investigators by the plaintiff in that same case [04:03] MinceR 25 045603 < matey> with linux theres a better chance imo of them making it worse [04:04] mjg59_ phanes: There's no requirement that court filings be made under a "legal name" [04:04] matey phanes: fwiw, a court document that uses your "new" name may suffice as proof of name change. ianal. [04:04] MinceR well, with linux, some of the fixes would go against dogma (removing the CoC, for example) and others would go against the wishes of their new overlords (removing MICROS~1 and NSA crap, for example) [04:04] mjg59_ phanes: The court will accept filings that identify people in an unambiguous manner [04:04] schestowitz[TR2] xi, akademi, blackwater [04:04] matey but people change their names in courtrooms [04:04] schestowitz[TR2] xi: stop deadnaming me! [04:04] matey its extremely common in new hampshire [04:04] schestowitz[TR2] meta: stop calling me facebnook!! [04:05] schestowitz[TR2] alphabet: stop calling kme gulag [04:05] phanes https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.14.0.pdf [04:05] MinceR > wikipedia is never wrong [04:05] MinceR lol [04:05] phanes this is pretty cut and dry, and is a distraction from the material issues, which I"ve found to be a common pattern with this [04:05] matey lol <- thats my (nearly) standard disclaimer when i "cite" wp in a remotely serious context [04:05] MinceR blackwater jinping [04:06] mjg59_ phanes: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf is one written by the actual judge [04:06] schestowitz[TR2] wikipedia is brigades, just like social control media [04:06] schestowitz[TR2] russia bans wikipedia [04:06] matey if your going to make a joke about something tedious and its going to be a running joke [04:06] schestowitz[TR2] it feelt unfairly treated [04:06] DaemonFC mjg59_phanes: There's no requirement that court filings be made under a "legal name" [04:06] schestowitz[TR2] which is likely partly true [04:06] matey it needs to be short, sweet and probably deadpan [04:06] schestowitz[TR2] on political issues [04:06] phanes here's one filed by the actual defense atttorney: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.17.0.pdf [04:06] DaemonFC In which case, it is insufficient proof that you should use that name. [04:07] phanes i see a strong case for both sides on this. im going to have to see some evidence of a legal name change. [04:07] matey i see a strong case for both sides on this. im going to have to see some evidence of a legal name change. [04:07] phanes until then, name stays as is [04:07] matey me too [04:07] matey except im going to suggest again that using your "new" name in a court documnt [04:08] matey is basically one legal way to change your "legal name" [04:08] matey and thats not tongue in cheek [04:08] schestowitz[TR2] to link an individual states constantlyu ask about past names [04:08] matey id like more evidence of this, really, but i think it might be accurate [04:08] schestowitz[TR2] the state is not deadnaming, it just needs to know who's who [04:08] schestowitz[TR2] and it's also why name changes are so hard bureaucratically [04:08] MinceR (though blackwater renamed itself to xe, not xi) [04:09] phanes i was adopted as a kid and had to jump through many hoops to get my name fixed many times [04:09] mjg59_ phanes: Yeah the initial defence filing has to respond to the name in the intial filing [04:09] matey it just needs to know who's who <- should i ask mjg what name they use on their license? [04:09] schestowitz[TR2] adding phd to your passport is easy [04:09] mjg59_ matey: Oh, I don't have a license in this country [04:09] schestowitz[TR2] you just show proof [04:09] schestowitz[TR2] but changes to anything in the name is harder [04:09] matey matey: Oh, I don't have a license in this country <- not yours, your fiancees [04:09] phanes mjg59_, i care only to the extent of accuracy, you know what i would need and have refused to provide it so far [04:09] mjg59_ matey: Eh you'd have to ask them [04:10] mjg59_ phanes: You're asserting that a name that is acceptable to a federal court is not acceptable to you [04:10] mjg59_ phanes: You can definitely make that choice [04:10] TR News #Techrights Bulletin for Sunday, July 24, 2022 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext [04:10] TR Bot Bulletin Archives [04:10] mjg59_ I can't stop you [04:10] TR News #Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing [04:10] TR Bot Techrights Full IPFS Index [04:10] phanes mjg59_, i am asserting that the legal name will be used, and that i currently believe the legal name to be reichwein [04:10] mjg59_ phanes: What research have you done into the legal name? [04:10] phanes mjg59_ what contrary proof have you offered that isn't countered by the same dataset it came from? [04:11] matey im happy to try to research this [04:11] matey im certainly curious enough [04:11] mjg59_ phanes: I've offered nothing. Why do you believe that one name in this set of documents is a "legal name" and that another isn't? [04:11] britney mjg59_, phanes is just going to use "legal name" as justification to be transphobic [04:11] schestowitz[TR2] there are many reasont o change name [04:11] schestowitz[TR2] e.g. marriage [04:11] schestowitz[TR2] but for taxes and stuff it's important to link to past identities [04:11] schestowitz[TR2] some terrorists changes their names [04:11] matey www.findlaw.com/family/marriage/how-to-legally-change-your-name.html [04:11] matey Petition to change your name by filling out a name change form, an order to show cause for legally changing your name, and a decree to legally change your name. Take these forms to the court clerk and file them along with your state's required filing fees. In most cases, a judge or magistrate will review your forms and grant the name change. [04:11] schestowitz[TR2] for immigratioin pourposes [04:12] schestowitz[TR2] and some people change names cause they hate themselves and want to start overt [04:12] MinceR porpoises [04:12] schestowitz[TR2] the states still need to link the chain of name changes [04:12] matey www.legalzoom.com/articles/how-to-change-your-name [04:12] matey If you want to change your name for reasons other than those related to marriage or divorce, the legal name change process usually involves first filing a petition with the court. You may also have to attend a hearing and show cause for your name change request. If your petition is granted, the court will enter a decree with your new name. [04:12] phanes schestowitz[TR2], they do, and its usually public record. this is to prevent fugitives from moving to another state and assuming an alias [04:12] schestowitz[TR2] name changes can also be used to thwart harassment or to start harassing people [04:12] matey ^ what if this has basically happened already? [04:13] matey namechange.uslegal.com/name-changes-laws-by-state/ [04:13] matey In the United States, a legal name change can be obtained through a court order and any US citizen has the right to change his/her name through either common law or court procedure. A person may change his/her name at will and operate a business, write a book, or even sue someone under a different name. [04:13] matey "A person may change his/her name at will and operate a business, write a book, or even sue someone under a different name." [04:13] mjg59_ phanes: ie, what evidence do you have that no legal name change had occurred before this case was filed? [04:13] phanes mjg59_, you are asking to prove a negative; the burden of proof is on you [04:14] phanes if you dispute, refute [04:14] mjg59_ phanes: Your argument is "A said (a), and B said (b). A said it first, so I believe A" [04:14] matey mjg: are they a resident of california? im only asking for checking the laws on name changes [04:14] matey which are by state [04:14] schestowitz[TR2] twitter once suspending me for pointing out that one person who was harassing wikileaks changed names and kept doing it with the new name [04:14] schestowitz[TR2] *suspeneded for a day [04:14] mjg59_ matey: I live in California, you can infer what you will from that [04:14] phanes i think thou doest protest too much though at this point, and this really points to you trying to make an issue to stir the normies like britney into thinking its some kind of transphobic position instead of a technical accuracy and insistence on legal names [04:14] matey fair enogh [04:15] matey /me doesnt consider britnet a normie [04:15] matey britney even [04:15] phanes if it were a truth-backed position he'd have just linked to the legal name change papers instead of all this victim posturing [04:15] matey i think she already had her own position [04:15] britney phanes, im a legal professional and i can tell you that a transgender persons assumed name is allowed by courts in canada [04:15] mjg59_ phanes: Given two names used in the case, you've decided that one is a "legal name" [04:16] phanes mjg59_, yes based on the plaintiff's PI findings [04:16] mjg59_ phanes: You have not shown or linked to any legal documents supporting that assertion [04:16] phanes they literally hired a private investigator to find this out [04:16] phanes sure i have [04:16] mjg59_ phanes: The PI literally died [04:16] matey lied or died? [04:16] mjg59_ Unfortunate situation, but perhaps he wasn't at his best [04:17] matey died [04:17] mjg59_ matey: Died - had a heart attack [04:17] phanes that really sucks [04:17] mjg59_ Maybe it compromised the quality of his work? Who knows. [04:17] phanes in the meantime, let me know when you find that legal name change doc, you can submit privately and expect confidence if you desire it. [04:17] britney mjg59_, it literally costs phanes nothing, $0, to use the assumed name and he is doubling down on using a legal name because that is what transphobes do [04:17] matey https://namechange.uslegal.com/name-changes-laws-by-state/california-name-change-law/ [04:17] TR Bot California Name Change Law Name Change [04:17] mjg59_ britney: Yup [04:18] phanes britney, it wont work [04:18] mjg59_ britney: I mean, I wouldn't say "assumed name" in this case [04:18] britney phanes, it costs you nothing to use the assumed name [04:18] phanes britney, i will use legal names for all entries and i will never, ever move from that [04:18] britney phanes, how do you know which name is the legal name? [04:18] mjg59_ phanes: well, in that case you've already fucked up [04:19] phanes so you call me racist or transphobic or whatever demonization device you want to use, and I'll keep using the legal name, which can be updated when i see evidence of a name change. [04:19] britney phanes, can you provide evidence to back up your assertion that the name you are using is the legal name? [04:20] phanes britney, its literally in the PI's findings and on several court documents in that same set. im not going to argue about this anymore, the name stays until someone provides a credible refutation involving actual evidence of a name change [04:20] mjg59_ britney: He can't, because it's not true [04:20] phanes i have already literally linked to it several times (and several instances) in this discussion [04:20] phanes now you're just lying [04:20] phanes and its not going to work [04:20] mjg59_ I guess he'll assert that I defamed him by saying that he refuses to use someone's legal name [04:21] mjg59_ phanes: Sorry, which statement are you asserting is a lie? [04:21] matey I FOUND IT [04:21] phanes no what you're trying to do is exploit people in the same way you exploit people in your other defamations [04:21] mjg59_ phanes: I just want to be certain what factual claim you're making about me [04:21] matey myfamilylaw.com/library/common-law-name-change/ [04:21] matey The federal courts have ruled again and again that changing your name at will or, by "common law" is every citizen's right under the U.S. Constitution. Using this "common law rule," you can change your name without even going to court. Technically, you only need to begin using your chosen name to assume it - and can do so legally. [04:21] mjg59_ phanes: I mean, you wouldn't want to accidentally defame me [04:21] matey isis lovecruft imo is a legal name. imo. [04:21] phanes mjg59_, the pattern is well documented here: https://www.abuseonline.org/database/Garrett,%20Matthew/2022-07-16/ [04:21] TR Bot TAODB [04:22] matey -> The federal courts have ruled again and again that changing your name at will or, by "common law" is every citizen's right under the U.S. Constitution. <- [04:22] phanes matey, that's actually not true when you go to get a driver's license or a job [04:22] matey using it in a court document should count imo [04:22] mjg59_ phanes: You literally just said I was lying [04:22] mjg59_ phanes: All I'm asking is that you explain how I lied [04:23] phanes britney: He can't, because it's not true <--- this was the lie [04:23] matey why would the dmv or employer be more important in determining "legal" name than the federal gov [04:23] phanes i have already literally linked to it several times (and several instances) in this discussion <--- this is where i explained why its a lie [04:23] mjg59_ phanes: What evidence do you have that I'm lying? [04:23] matey employers have illegal requirements, they shouldnt count here [04:23] mjg59_ phanes: You admit that you may not have seen the complete set of evidence [04:23] matey and why is the dmv the highest court of the land on this, because theyre the biggest pain in the arse about it? [04:23] phanes yeah this just isn't going to work on me [04:24] mjg59_ phanes: So perhaps the situation is simply that I'm better informed than you? [04:24] matey i think my question is fair. the difference is, im doing this for educational purposes (including mine) [04:24] mjg59_ matey: Yeah I'd say that a federal court is above the California DMV [04:24] matey britney is doing this out of sincerity [04:24] phanes mjg59_, no the situation is that you're a liar, and you're trying to find a way to tug at the heart strings of people with fictitious insults [04:24] matey and mjg is, to be fair-- doing it for whatever reason(s) he does [04:24] phanes mjg59_, as was documented previously in the TAODB entries about you [04:24] matey matey: Yeah I'd say that a federal court <- yeah but youre a leftist. phanes may be a states law guy [04:25] phanes it's a pattern of behaviour with strong documented precedent [04:25] mjg59_ phanes: If people read your claims that I'm a liar and thought less of me as a result, that sounds like it might be defamatory? [04:25] matey i still think dmv as high court choice is peculiar [04:25] britney phanes, im both a legal professional and a transgender woman, i can tell you that insisting to use a "legal name" instead of the persons own chosen name is illegal in canada [04:25] matey which proves nothing about usa except providing context (for consideration) [04:25] phanes britney, i will keep an eye out for a letter from the royal mounts [04:25] mjg59_ phanes: I mean, assuming I'm not a liar (if I am, then obviously you have a defence) [04:26] matey no comment [04:27] phanes mjg59_, yes, you are not only a liar, but a habitual liar that has been caught several times in this process [04:27] mjg59_ phanes: I'm more than happy for you to continue to provide evidence that you made claims with actual malice [04:27] phanes mjg59_, won't work [04:28] britney phanes, using a transgender persons correct pronouns and name reduce suicide ideation. so one could logically assume that you're increasing suicide risk by not using their proper gender pronouns and name. [04:28] mjg59_ I'll admit that I'm arguably a public figure here so mere negligence is inadequate, but you're doing a wonderful job of fulfilling that prong [04:28] matey on a related note, the dmv may be violating the cosntitutional rights of trans individuals [04:28] phanes you victim-stance all you want, it just will not work on me [04:29] phanes i am outraged that you have been able to do this to so many people with impunity but my goal is truth-finding; me not liking you while I do it is a natural consequence of you being a dirtbag, that doesn't imply malice [04:29] matey my sincerest feeling abot this is that phanes made an argument for what hes doing and we made a better one for doing something different [04:29] matey however [04:29] mjg59_ You've already established that you're not interested in the truth, merely your idea of the truth [04:30] matey this is based on information i didnt even have a few hours ago [04:30] phanes nor does using the legal name of someone linked with you despite your effort to draw their behaviour away from their real name [04:30] mjg59_ phanes: [04:30] matey what if this ISNT about evasion [04:30] mjg59_ phanes: Look the name they use is *extremely* public [04:30] mjg59_ phanes: You're choosing to use a name that's not actually linked to anything they do [04:30] phanes if it were a matter of there being a legal name change having taken place, you'd have supplied it and we'd be moving on, but you're going to try to spin it as some kind of social issue to try to garner supporters, and it'll backfire on you [04:31] matey if it were a matter of there being a legal name change having taken place <- i think i established that in EVERY COURT below the dmv fwiw [04:31] mjg59_ phanes: If that were my concern I'd be more than happy for you to continue using a name that's not linked to their work or identity or anything [04:32] matey what isis did regarding their name is an established constitutional right. tbh that should count [04:32] phanes im not worried about it [04:32] phanes moving on [04:32] matey its just that [04:32] matey if it were a matter of there being a legal name change having taken place <- [04:32] matey but okay [04:32] mjg59_ phanes: So your fixation on using their deadname really does come across as something other than an interest in justice [04:33] matey i think hes confused about the actual legality, like this is some kind of trick [04:33] phanes no, that's just the dumber, weaker argument you fabricated on my behalf when you found yourself unable or unwilling to address the position i actually made [04:33] britney mjg59_, its just a way to continue being transphobic while at the same time trying to appear like thats not the case because its "the legal name." [04:33] mjg59_ matey: Yeah I mean everyone knows that isis worked for tor and is engaged to me and was harrassed by the FBI and so on, the deadname he's choosing to use doesn't tie them to anything that actually makes me look bad [04:34] phanes sounds like a point that the goal isn't to make you lkook bad but to get the truth out, and that you're super butthurt for being exposed as a serial defamer [04:34] matey at least mjgs name didnt change [04:34] mjg59_ matey: But he's also so convinced that I'm Bad, he can't imagine a situation where I'd try to prevent my fiance being deadnamed because I care about my fiance [04:35] matey mjg: personally i think you have a turd for a moral compass. and i think phanes has a better one. its just that in this instance [04:35] matey i think your stance on naming is more correct, and that counts for something too. [04:36] phanes i am not movable on this without evidence [04:36] matey and i think phanes has a better one. <- i know less about him and could be WAY off of course [04:36] matey he could be literally satan for all i know [04:36] matey or worse, clinton [04:36] britney phanes, you called me Britney without any evidence I've had a name change [04:36] phanes britney, that's because this is a social interaction and not a publication [04:36] matey phanes, you called me Britney without any evidence I've had a name change <- which is actually evidence hes NOT transphobix [04:36] matey just that hes adamant about this exception to using a prferred name [04:37] matey even if its for reasons weve helped to debunk imo [04:37] mjg59_ matey: Eh. I think my moral compass is not necesarily differently aligned, but we come to different conclusions [04:37] matey i didnt set out to go either way with this. i was happy to see which way truth (and reason) went on it [04:37] phanes britney, if you had been a serial defamer and were being exposed on the site, or researched for inclusion on the site your real name would be what was used, but, in a social interaction, ive been very clear that a person's nickname should be used as a courtesy [04:38] phanes mjg59_, can you describe a time when you did something that hurt someone and felt bad about it? [04:39] mjg59_ phanes: I can! If you're a licensed therapist and work for reasonable rates I might even talk to you about it [04:39] phanes mjg59_, not a blanket "I can" but I mean a specific event [04:39] phanes and if youve talked to a therapist you know why im going specific [04:40] mjg59_ phanes: I refer you to my previous answer [04:40] phanes i didn't think you could [04:40] phanes i wont tell you why that's important because it'll teach you how to be yourself without being undetected in more situations [04:40] phanes *without being detected [04:40] matey i have a more hypothetical one, just for fun i guess [04:41] mjg59_ phanes: Me telling you anything about previous situations in which I've hurt someone involves me telling you about someone else, and in the absence of you having any professional obligation to keep things secret I'm not going to tell you about them [04:41] mjg59_ phanes: Any information you could obtain from me in that discussion could be used to hurt other people. I simply don't trust you. [04:41] matey mjg what would you do if we proved (as unlicensed internet geeks, i dont know what kind of proof we can offer) that you were a sociopath [04:41] matey would it matter? [04:42] mjg59_ matey: It would [04:42] mjg59_ matey: I've sought therapy as a result of online discussions [04:42] matey can you think of anything you might do about such a situation? [04:42] phanes sociopaths can emulate empathy to meet a goal [04:42] mjg59_ matey: If people presented me with a good argument, I'd definitely seek further help [04:42] matey matey: I've sought therapy as a result of online discussions <- about 100% of my interest in that-- which IS piqued by the way [04:43] matey is from you bringing it up. [04:43] phanes so can narcissists, in fact its common with NPD [04:43] matey sociopaths can emulate empathy to meet a goal <- i can think of a great example of this (the good side of it) but out of consideration of that person i wont use a name here [04:43] mjg59_ matey: I've had Gamergate spend time focused on destroying me, and that was definitely something where I spent time questioning whether some of the accusations were accurate [04:43] matey that is to say any name at all [04:44] mjg59_ matey: It's also something that's fallen out of some online discussions about transphobia, and whether I was sincere or whether I was just trying to be protective of people I wanted to care about me [04:44] matey I spent time questioning whether some of the accusations were accurate <- do you know my personal opinion about sociopaths? its not a professional one of course, and i dont know how it would matter other than being on topic [04:45] mjg59_ matey: Like I've said before, we may not agree on a whole bunch of stuff, but I do respect your opinions as being genuinely held and I'll listen to them [04:46] phanes mjg59_, what's your take on the continuous cycle of people using almost identical accusations of you from different events? like why do you think it keeps happening? [04:46] mjg59_ phanes: I'd guess it's because I respond in predictable ways to people who are bad [04:46] phanes mjg59_, so they are all lying? [04:46] matey i personally believe, given a fair amount of experience with people, that sociopaths 1. are curable 2. only if they devote their life to helping themselves evolve 3. most of whom will only fake it. 4 but some of whom will go the whole way and become heroes of a sort (that is, heroes for struggling to become whole people against the odds) [04:47] mjg59_ Eh ok they're not neccessarily bad they might just do bad things [04:47] mjg59_ matey: I think I agree with all of that [04:47] phanes i dont think sociopaths are curable and i know factually that there are 0 cases of NPD rehabilitations [04:47] matey i believe there are high-functioning sociopaths and theyve rigged together a sort of soul for themselves, which functions well enough to be street legal [04:48] matey but its a hell of a thing to accomplish [04:49] mjg59_ matey: When I need to find a therapist I pick someone who has experience with narcissists because I know I'm capable of telling convincing lies and I want them to be able to identify that and call me on it [04:49] phanes mjg59_, have you been formally diagnosed with NPD? [04:49] matey ave you been formally diagnosed with NPD? [04:49] matey <- i wouldnt tell anyone to answer yes to this [04:49] matey ^ [04:50] mjg59_ I don't think that I actually have a habit of telling convincing lies - I just know that I'm capable of identifying a set of facts and come up with a story [04:50] *schestowitz-TR thinks the channel has lost focus hours ago, but doesn't mind too much... makes backups of 3 laptops overnight [04:50] mjg59_ I mean, that's basically what science is [04:50] mjg59_ Look at facts, come up with a story [04:50] phanes that is [04:50] matey thats step 1 [04:50] phanes not what science is [04:50] mjg59_ But with science, we have ways to test that [04:50] matey science is about testing that story [04:51] matey right [04:51] mjg59_ With personalities, it's hard to do that ourselves [04:51] matey very! [04:51] mjg59_ So we rely on others to test it for us [04:51] mjg59_ I'm a trained scienties [04:51] mjg59_ t [04:51] matey i think phanes statement of 0 rehabilitations appears inaccurate from a cursory search [04:51] TR News On telling users to write the documentation themselves gemini://republic.circumlunar.space/users/flexibeast/gemlog/2022-07-25.gmi [04:51] mjg59_ So this is the sort of thing I'm supposed to be good at [04:52] matey its like saying can cancer be cured [04:52] matey no [04:52] mjg59_ Which is why I want to find people who are good at identifying that, so I can keep myself in check [04:52] matey but cancer can be more or less cured for the most important intents and purposes, and thats the idea [04:52] mjg59_ If I say "I did this because (a) and (b)", I want someone who can tell me "But (a) is incompatible with (b)" [04:52] matey i think npd can be treated its just fucking rare that it helps [04:52] matey I want someone who can tell me "But (a) is incompatible with (b) <- you dont need a doctor, you need a physicist [04:53] phanes matey, show me one example of a cured NPD patient [04:53] matey this is exactly why i prefer the term sociopath [04:53] mjg59_ matey: Eh when it comes to interpersonal interactions I don't think it requires a physicist [04:53] phanes narcissists and sociopaths are fundamentally different [04:53] matey the physicist part was a well-inteded tongue in cheek joke [04:54] mjg59_ But I seek out professional help to ensure that I'm not actually making up explanations that make me look good [04:54] matey but you want a highly-technical therapist obviously [04:54] mjg59_ Yup! [04:54] matey i mean one who can appeal to your way of seeing the world [04:54] mjg59_ Eh maybe not? One who can tell me that my way of seeing the world is bullshit [04:54] mjg59_ I don't want therapists who make me feel good about the situation I'm in [04:55] mjg59_ I want therapists who'll tell me I'm fucking up if I'm fucking up [04:55] matey sticking only to information thats already public [04:55] matey how did you meet isis anyway, im not asking for many details, just a little insight into all of this (not the case, your personal life) [04:56] matey and im only asking for things that are public knowledge (but that doesnt mean ima ware of them) [04:56] matey im not asking you to "reveal" anything here [04:57] mjg59_ matey: Oh, I was giving a talk at the EFF and they were in the audience [04:57] matey they talked to you after? [04:57] matey www.healthline.com/health/therapy-for-narcissism [04:57] matey Metacognitive interpersonal therapy (MIT) MIT is a step-by-step treatment designed to: dismantle narcissistic processes by looking at problems as they pertain to your own life. [04:58] matey who knows if it works [04:58] mjg59_ matey: Yeah, but it took 3 years before I realised they weren interested in me [04:58] mjg59_ matey: I'm pretty oblivious [04:58] matey but youre engaged? [04:58] mjg59_ Oops "were" not "weren" [04:58] phanes matey, oh i dont deny that there are treatment methods, I deny that any are successful in curing the illness. NPD has tragic and seemingly locked patterns. [04:58] matey oh ok [04:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [04:59] matey NPD has tragic and seemingly locked patterns. <- ive seen them. so youre saying the treatments dont actually unlock those? [04:59] phanes 0 cases of rehab documented [04:59] mjg59_ matey: We were sitting next to each other at a wedding 3 years later and there was a Bitcoin person sitting opposite me and I got into an argument with him and isis thought it was hilarious ● Jul 25 [05:00] matey i consider this a highly personal question, but considering they didnt sign, im not sure how it can have a bad answer [05:00] matey ill ask just for the hell of it [05:00] matey these questions DONT all have a single point where they join, and theyre not all random either [05:00] mjg59_ matey: And then we went on 5 dates in 6 days and I finally figured out that maybe they actually wanted to spend time with me [05:00] matey im going in more than one dirction with this [05:01] phanes mjg59_, what year was that? [05:01] matey i dont believe isis signed under their name or deadname or any name [05:01] matey do you know why they didnt? [05:01] matey the stallman ltter [05:01] mjg59_ matey: (I'll let you figure out how this plays into Roy's continual assertions that I attend FLOSS conferences to sleep with people) [05:01] matey oh you debunked that imo [05:02] matey he made a generalisation to try to sully you as much as possible [05:02] matey based PARTLY on something you actually said [05:02] matey but imo his wording was inaccurate. we dont have to be on the same side for me to agree with a valid point [05:02] mjg59_ matey: isis submitted some patches to a free software project and they got ignored and then did so again under a fake male name and they got applied and now they hate working with free software projects so refused to take a position on rms [05:02] matey i may choose to stay out of it, but i chose to involve myself there [05:03] matey matey: isis submitted some patches to a free software project and they got ignored and then did so again under a fake male name and they got applied and now they hate working with free software projects <- thats a real shame [05:03] matey and yeah i know shit like that happens [05:03] matey so refused to take a position on rms [05:03] matey ^ i think thats noble [05:03] matey or ethical. or reasonable. or one of those. [05:03] mjg59_ Yeah their problem with free software isn't rms [05:04] matey its douchebags [05:04] mjg59_ So it wasn't their fight [05:04] mjg59_ No reason for them to sign it [05:04] mjg59_ I respect that [05:04] matey yeah [05:05] matey im on the left politically. i have a very libertarian spirit about things. they may not agree. i did consider myself libertarian at one point. [05:05] matey i consider the problems of the world to be created by the fake left and the fake right [05:06] matey the real left and the real right are less of a problem. [05:06] matey the problem with fakes is they always serve the status quo in the end. either side. [05:06] *schestowitz-TR leaves laptop to copy across 231gb, leaves for the night [05:06] matey the real left imo is our only hope. [05:06] matey but they have more in common with the real right than the right understands, mostly [05:06] matey for example, everyone should be armed. i know you dont agree. [05:07] matey i think everyone should be armed. [05:07] matey but especially the socialists! [05:07] matey and all of the workers [05:07] matey its easier to get the real right to understand the real left [05:08] matey because theyre not bullshitting [05:08] matey the fake right is fake because theyre NOT actually conservative-- theyre NOT actually libertarian [05:08] matey and they really just believe in doing what they want because force. [05:08] matey thats not even politics, its just thuggery [05:08] phanes i think everyone should have a registered gun and an unregistered gun. one in break-glass for intruders, one in break-glass for tyranny. 'merica. [05:09] matey the fake left is a problem because they hold back the real left. [05:09] matey in other words, they fight for progress they then prevent [05:09] matey with some notable exceptions [05:10] matey the best example of the fake left is stalin himself [05:10] matey everyone should learn about stalins career [05:10] matey the same way they learn what a cuntbag hitler was [05:10] matey its an equally important historical lesson for everyone [05:10] phanes yeah [05:10] phanes killed way more people too [05:10] britney matey, stalin was a bank robber [05:11] matey he robbed whole countries [05:11] matey and i dont mean that he annexed. i mean he took them away from the people [05:11] matey i dont care about governments. governments are like diapers [05:11] matey yorue supposed to grow out of them eventually [05:11] matey and theyre full of shit :) [05:12] phanes yeah you know something is wrong when your two chief choices are hillary clinton or donald trump. [05:12] matey she ran his election [05:12] phanes yes lol [05:13] matey not enough people wanted trump to actually elect him (the first time) [05:13] matey they dont want him now either, but they do believe so [05:13] matey they didnt vote for trump. they voted for not-hillary [05:13] matey the democrat voters wanted bernie [05:13] phanes this jan 6th thing was taken too lightly [05:13] matey the dnc sucks that hard [05:13] phanes he needs to be barred from even running [05:14] matey this jan 6th thing was taken too lightly <- it was a coup [05:14] phanes preferrably on a gallow [05:14] matey the coup didnt take power, but it was still a coup [05:14] phanes give 'im the ole "Saddam" treatment [05:14] matey the us gov will never hang someone that high up for treason [05:14] matey someday though, the people will [05:15] matey dunno when [05:15] phanes im practicing my french in anticipation [05:15] matey but its a historical fact, it just hasnt happened yet [05:15] matey meh, the french are cunts [05:15] matey but theyve done some cool things [05:15] matey not recently :/ [05:15] matey right now theyre just doing roma pograms [05:15] phanes in mil. history they always get sold short. they just are so good at losing. [05:16] phanes or running [05:16] matey thats not what bothers me [05:16] matey they dont know when to right "run into those bullets!" " [05:16] matey why?" "i dont know, it sounded cool!" [05:16] matey they dont know when fight and when to retreat [05:16] matey "hitlers coming" [05:16] matey "okay get the white flags!" [05:16] matey "why?" [05:17] matey "we tried running into bullets and that was shit!" [05:17] phanes lol [05:17] matey "yeah but what the fuck are we doing, just flipping a coin?" [05:17] matey these are not the proudest moments in french history [05:17] matey and those certainly exist [05:17] matey but i still think theyre cunts [05:17] mjg59_ I grew up in Europe, obviously I have opinions about US politics and the space it occupries [05:18] phanes a person can love their country while hating the things it does [05:18] matey us politics are mostly based on the government, thats why us politics suck so much [05:18] matey i like americans [05:18] matey until they get into office [05:18] matey then i generally dont [05:18] matey i coudlve met obama, i did support his campaign [05:19] matey by the time i had the chance i went to mcdonalds [05:19] matey ive also been to bens chili, but only because more interesting people than obama went there [05:19] matey to be fair, he WAS the first black president [05:19] matey but its also fair to say "better luck next time" [05:20] matey i think oprah wouldve been better [05:20] matey maybe even less than terrible [05:20] mjg59_ I think Obama was the most effective US president in my lifetime, and that's not saying a great deal [05:20] matey fsvo effective [05:20] matey youre in your 30s? [05:20] mjg59_ Also way too many drone strikes [05:20] mjg59_ 42 [05:20] matey yeah the drones are a dealbreaker for me [05:20] phanes yeah as a potus he did alot but he may also fall into the mass murderer category [05:21] mjg59_ I don't think you get to be US president without being a mass murderer [05:21] mjg59_ Maybe Carter avoided that, just [05:21] matey that says a lot [05:21] mjg59_ Everyone in my lifetime has murdered a shitload of people [05:21] matey i dont call it murder if its just [05:21] matey problem is its usually about profit, not justice [05:22] phanes eh. hard to call civilian men women and children in the ironsights of a drone a just killing [05:22] matey most wars are bullshit. but you wont see me telling ukraine to "be nice" [05:22] matey because you really DO have a right to defend yourself [05:22] matey even if the usa is just exploiting them [05:22] matey proxy war fodder [05:22] mjg59_ Yeah I'd treat Ukraine differently [05:22] phanes what we did in the ME was the same kind of justice you see in the gaza strip [05:22] phanes s/justice/"justice"/g [05:22] mjg59_ But Greneda? Iraq II? Afghanistan? [05:23] matey war crimes > murder > defence [05:23] matey iraq ii was just straight up war crime profiteering [05:23] phanes payday for contractors [05:23] matey blair should have a velvet rope or something [05:23] mjg59_ And Clinton had missile attacks on legitimate chemical factories [05:23] matey though i think they should have shot saddam [05:24] matey if youre in the military you should get a choice [05:24] matey rope or bullet [05:24] matey he wanted bullet [05:24] mjg59_ Please don't view me as someone in favour of imperialism [05:24] mjg59_ I was born in Ireland, I have some experience of this [05:24] matey irelands weird and doesnt represent the world [05:24] matey however they wanted to send the guy who helped with the peace process to the middle east [05:25] matey i thought it was a great idea. [05:25] mjg59_ Ireland was utterly fucked over by Britain for a very long time [05:25] matey the biggest problems in the middle east arent israel and palestine-- though i do blame israel for their role [05:25] mjg59_ Not to the extent of being sold into slavery, so there's a categorical distinction there [05:25] matey its the rest of the world exploiting that conflict isntead of fixing it [05:25] matey thats the bigger problem [05:26] mjg59_ matey: A lot of the middle east is also the UK's fault [05:26] matey the british are cunts too. and i adore them mostly [05:26] phanes there were irish slaves [05:26] phanes in the us [05:26] matey including ulster <3 [05:26] mjg59_ phanes: Fuck the fucking fuck off [05:26] phanes dark time in us history [05:26] phanes im not kidding, its true [05:26] mjg59_ phanes: That's some actual white supremacist bullshit [05:26] mjg59_ It's literally not [05:27] mjg59_ The form of indentured servitude that irish people were subject to in the US is nothing akin to slavery [05:27] phanes i may actually be full of shit on that now that im looking it up, but i could swear this was covered in like a 4th grade history class [05:27] matey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth <- wikipedia is never wrong [05:27] TR Bot Irish slaves myth - Wikipedia [05:27] mjg59_ The only people that advance that argument are attempting to undermine the evil of slavery by suggesting that white people were treated as poorly [05:27] matey i dont think phanes is a white supremacist [05:28] phanes "indentured servantry" is what i think the term used is [05:28] mjg59_ matey: He may not be, but if you sit at a table with 7 people who are nazis and 1 who's merely suggesting that their arguments have merit [05:28] matey https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-irish-were-indentured-servants-not-slaves/3198590001/ <- usa today is a big pile of shit but im linking this anyway [05:28] TR Bot Fact check: Irish were indentured servants, not slaves [05:28] mjg59_ I'm not going to argue that indentured servitude was good [05:28] matey matey: He may not be, but if you sit at a table with 7 people who are nazis and 1 who's merely suggesting that their arguments have merit <- okay, but where are the other 7 [05:29] mjg59_ But it was absolutely not akin to slavery [05:29] phanes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum [05:29] TR Bot Reductio ad Hitlerum - Wikipedia [05:29] mjg59_ More an exported form of feudalism [05:29] matey sometimes people get history wrong for innocent reasons [05:29] matey or because a cryptofascist told them something dumb [05:30] phanes """While the majority of Irish people who became indentured servants in the Colonies did so willingly (why they felt they had to so is, of course, another question), a not insignificant number were forcibly deported and sold into indentured servitude, Liam Hogan, a librarian and historian known for his work dispelling the Irish slave myth, told Pacific Standard magazine in 2018.""" [05:30] phanes https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-irish-were-indentured-servants-not-slaves/3198590001/ [05:30] matey and if youre gentle-- though you can try to egg him over irc-- [05:30] matey sometimes a simple factual correction works on reasonable people [05:30] matey i said sometimes [05:30] mjg59_ phanes: While evil, indentured servitude was not the same as slavery [05:30] phanes i agree with that and stand corrected [05:31] matey you know who is saying there were white slaves too these days [05:31] phanes the pivot point i think there is on legal personhood [05:31] matey is john cleese. and since i have no reason to think hes a white supremacist [05:31] matey i was included to believe him [05:31] matey inclined [05:32] mjg59_ phanes: Thank you for admitting that you are not always correct, and I apologise for having a strongly emotional reaction to your original claim [05:32] phanes it's okay, I already knew you were an easily offended asshole [05:32] matey im sure he means that in the nicest way possible :) [05:32] mjg59_ phanes: The "There were Irish slaves" claim is almost always advanced by people who do not have any Irish background, and as someone who does I find it hugely offensive [05:33] phanes im a good mix of german, scottish and cherokee [05:33] matey is almost always advanced by people who do not have any Irish background <- im allegedly from the mccormick line [05:33] mjg59_ phanes: The co-option of Irish americans into the white supremacist narrative is fundamentally incompatible with modern Irish culture [05:34] matey but damned if ill ever prove it now, and i dont identify strongly with it (but i do like the irish) [05:34] matey nearly married one [05:34] matey that is, someone born there [05:34] matey as they consider consider descendents of irish "irish" [05:34] matey dont consider ^ [05:34] mjg59_ If you have an Irish grandparent you're Irish [05:35] matey modern Irish culture <- and any decent irish culture at that [05:35] mjg59_ Even if you weren't born there [05:35] matey If you have an Irish grandparent <- little farther back [05:35] mjg59_ (Some details based around exact timing elided) [05:36] matey at any rate, i dont consider myself (significantly) irish [05:36] matey but someone was. maybe a bunch [05:36] phanes probably a bunch [05:36] matey dna says a bunch [05:36] matey i didnt, but a relative did [05:36] mjg59_ Honestly as someone who also spent a bunch of time growing up in Northern Ireland a bunch of Irish-American culture is actually bad [05:36] matey so i know the dna (but i think some of thats bunk.) [05:37] matey a bunch of Irish-American culture is actually bad <- oh cmon [05:37] mjg59_ Peter King's love of the IRA was obscene [05:37] phanes mjg59_, that would be a damper on having kids i'd imagine [05:37] matey a few brass knuckles and burned out store fronts never hurt anybody [05:37] matey oh irish-american [05:37] mjg59_ matey: The town I grew up in was blown up by an IRA splinter group in 1998 in the single worst terrorist attack of the troubles [05:37] matey of course you know i wasnt serious [05:38] matey when i was a kid [05:38] matey i was lke [05:38] mjg59_ matey: Yeah sorry just providing context [05:38] matey "fuck! ill never go there, that place is CRAZY" [05:38] matey then when i was there [05:38] matey i was like [05:38] mjg59_ matey: But people in Boston kept on giving them money even after the ceasefire [05:38] matey noooooooo, i dont want to leave [05:38] matey then i was depressed for like two years after i left [05:38] matey i mean like REALLY depressed [05:39] matey so im quite fond of them really [05:39] mjg59_ I love going back there [05:39] matey if i could get a fucking cornish pastie and some proper chips and hp sauce id be happy [05:39] matey most of which is doable. even the pastie, but thats the trickiest part [05:40] matey ive certainly had hp sauce and proper chips since then [05:40] phanes i enjoy a good haggis [05:40] matey you can have mine [05:40] matey though honestly i should probably try the damned thing [05:40] phanes not much on islay scotch though [05:40] phanes too much bandaid taste [05:40] matey it cant be any worse than sausage [05:41] phanes its actually really good when its made well [05:41] matey the most undrinkable thing ive ever had with alcohol was canadian mist [05:41] matey i imagine it would taste about the same if i licked my antiperspirant [05:41] phanes what the canadians make and call whiskey should not be legally allowed to be called whiskey [05:41] matey im not dissing canadian alcohol altogether, im not that mean [05:42] matey ive had some i like too [05:42] matey just not that [05:42] matey canadian mist isnt a drink, its a munition [05:42] matey at best its an industrial solvent [05:42] matey but not for drinking [05:42] matey and its not even that strong, its just horrid [05:42] phanes im not a big fan of irish whisky either tbh [05:43] matey but ive had plenty of canadian booze that i never complained about [05:43] phanes just never could acquire a taste for it outside of post-funeral parties [05:43] matey and by plenty i mean i didnt drink until my 30s and even then not enough for doctors to get involved [05:43] phanes i drank [05:44] matey ive had two hangovers, roughly [05:44] phanes i developed a stupid level of tolerance for it [05:44] phanes oh ill get hung over [05:44] phanes i may even die [05:44] phanes but im going to fall last [05:46] phanes i remember the only time my uncle drank with me as after dad died, and we sat there with a bottle of the nastiest dewer's you've ever cleaned a gear with, and we took shot for shot till the old man keeled over a few hours later about 5 imnutes before i did [05:46] phanes 3rd bottle had about 75% lerft the next day and we decided that we'd all had enough for the trip [05:47] matey mjg: [05:47] matey this is half intended as a rib but technically its real advice [05:47] matey im 99% certain ben rich is NOT a sex tourist [05:48] matey so dont go burning him at the stake until you have more than a few forum posts to go on [05:48] matey /me likes him and is pretty sure hes innocent [05:49] mjg59_ matey: Not familiar with him [05:49] matey hes not in foss, hes a youtuber [05:49] matey feel free to keep an eye on johnny, weve decided hes weird [05:49] mjg59_ Irish whiskey was largely terrible for a long time, because the Irish booze industry consolidated after independence and almost all the good breweries and distilleries got closed down [05:50] mjg59_ But the past 20 years has seen a huge resurgence in high quality Irish whiskey [05:51] mjg59_ Lots of small independent distilleries, and also much better expost of what was already made to the US [05:51] phanes still kind of hard to catch up to the magic that's going on in banffshire/dufftown mjg59_ [05:51] mjg59_ It's kind of upsetting, Green Spot used to be about $15 a bottle and come with a screw cap, and now it's a premium thing that's $50 a bottle [05:52] matey my favourite youtuber at the moment https://yewtu.be/watch?v=Fyu-2JIetEM [05:52] TR Bot What is the Purpose of True Crime? | We're In Hell - Invidious [05:53] matey at first hes grating, but hes a wild mix of interesting information and comedic delivery (that particular video is a horrible example of this) [05:54] matey this one is good https://yewtu.be/watch?v=WycFnXXj6h0 this one is Fucked https://yewtu.be/watch?v=VHi_UusXdWM [05:54] TR Bot Stay Here: Gentrification and the Neoliberal City - Invidious [05:54] TR Bot Lost Resort: Oops, They Made a Cult! - Invidious [05:54] matey It's kind of upsetting, Green Spot used to be about $15 a bottle and come with a screw cap <- whiskey gentrification! [05:54] mjg59_ Honestly the only youtuber I've really got into is lookmumnocomputer [05:55] matey he makes music and things that make music [05:55] matey that almost sounds like hank hill started a band [05:55] phanes found the seal request, it was just for a portion of the anonymous testimony: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.22.0.pdf [05:55] mjg59_ matey: Haha when I first moved to SF I ended up in a bar listening to a guy with an Irish accent complain that when he'd moved into his neighbourhood it was so real but now almost all his neighbours were white [05:56] mjg59_ matey: And I managed to avoid explaining that maybe he was part of the problem there [05:56] matey oh god, i used to live in a very gay town and then all th straights started moving in [05:56] matey and i didnt mind, except it was less cool then [05:57] mjg59_ It's fine, the place I live used to be owned by the head of the SF Republican Party so I only displaced a dick [05:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [06:01] mjg59_ Also I did enjoy earlier that Roy just refused to take a stand on the channel not discussing tech rights because whoever he criticised would result in bullshit [06:01] matey matey: And I managed to avoid explaining that maybe he was part of the problem there <- i bet he knew [06:01] mjg59_ I actually empathise on that point [06:01] mjg59_ Moderation is hard [06:01] mjg59_ matey: I'm geninely not sure that he did [06:02] matey matey: I'm geninely not sure that he did <- what are the odds [06:03] matey Moderation is hard <- i hope you never understand his methods, i can assure you he doesnt [06:04] mjg59_ matey: People in their 20s working for tech companies in SF? Default assumption is lack of social awareness [06:04] matey People in their 20s working for tech companies in SF? Default assumption <- fair play [06:05] matey you made him sound older [06:05] mjg59_ Oh yeah people here are very "Oh I was here 2 years ago, you're the newbies" [06:05] mjg59_ It's not super healthy tbh [06:05] phanes i dont think anyboidy is arguing that califonia tech culture is healthy [06:06] matey the neuveau teche [06:06] *Despatche has quit (Quit: Read error: Connection reset by deer) [06:07] phanes tbh i dont view employers in silicon valley as stable unless they're one of the big 5 [06:07] phanes between that and the housing situation [06:07] *obarb has quit (*.net *.split) [06:07] *brabo (~brabo@wau.centropy.info) has joined #techrights [06:08] *brabo has quit (Changing host) [06:08] *brabo (~brabo@user/brabo) has joined #techrights [06:10] matey mjg i know this is a flawed question, feel free to rewrite it to allow for a better answer [06:10] matey if you only had one class (one session) to teach your students [06:10] matey whats the one thing youd stress most about security [06:11] mjg59_ matey: Nothing you believe is trustworthy should be treated as such unless you can verify it [06:11] matey hmm [06:11] mjg59_ matey: And, in the absence of belief about something being trustworthy, how can you protect against it anyway [06:12] matey i know its not intended [06:12] mjg59_ It ends up coming down to "Can I trust my CPU" and the answer is "No, but what else are you going to do" [06:12] matey hmm [06:13] mjg59_ Really the moral is "Build a decent threat model" [06:13] matey always right [06:14] mjg59_ Identify where the threats are, and identify whether the people who could exploit those threats care about you [06:14] mjg59_ For most people, the answer is that they don't need to care about their CPU vendor [06:14] mjg59_ It's not worth the risk to the vendor to compromise someone where there's a risk that might be identified [06:15] mjg59_ For some people, that's a risk you need to care about [06:15] mjg59_ And the most important thing in security is figuring out where you are in that scale [06:15] mjg59_ Because that influences everything that you spend time and money on [06:15] matey i mean, cops in india are putting rats on journalists [06:16] matey then using it to plant evidence [06:16] mjg59_ Yeah, ironically for this channel this actually ties into secure boot [06:17] matey the rat is easy enough to rmove [06:17] mjg59_ Hacking Team were selling implants for compromising journalists to repressive governments that would have been blocked by secure boot [06:17] matey but you need to be computer literate to know how to do this [06:17] matey secure boot was turned into something that hurts consumers more than it helps them [06:18] matey it may have the potential to do the opposite [06:18] matey but its like regulatory capture [06:18] matey its technology capture [06:18] mjg59_ There's room to argue on that point, but yeah my position now is maybe not what it was a month ago [06:18] matey its reasonable if your position changes as it becomes more refined [06:19] matey otherwise we would still be doing biology at the socratic level [06:19] matey which doesnt sound great [06:19] matey and thats what your phd is in? [06:19] matey so there wouldnt be a phd in that [06:22] mjg59_ Huh I would note that https://archive.ph/G4Wbq includes sworn testimony about the name involved in the lovecruft case [06:22] TR Bot TAODB [06:23] matey Huh I would note <- why would you note that though [06:23] mjg59_ phanes: Weird that you'd actually have cited a page asserting in sworn testimony what someone's name is and then deny that you have evidence of it? [06:23] matey how does that fit in [06:23] DaemonFC Just turn it off. [06:23] DaemonFC There are too many bugs in the UEFI firmware to ever secure it properly. [06:23] matey i suspect phanes is being honest and cares about accuracy, despite some anomolies [06:23] DaemonFC Even if you install those updates from Lenovo, which trash Bitlocker because of the stupid TPM, you're not secure. [06:24] mjg59_ Ugh Linux contains security bugs does that mean we just stop improving security in Linux [06:24] phanes mjg59_, that would be weird if it weren't a projection of a false paradigm instead of a factual accounting [06:24] DaemonFC There will just be another round next month, and eventually Lenovo will not support you anymore even if you can install the updates. [06:24] DaemonFC mjg59_Ugh Linux contains security bugs does that mean we just stop improving security in Linux [06:24] mjg59_ phanes: Is your argument that a court filing contained lies [06:24] DaemonFC Well, given that I can install the updates for the Linux kernel and there's no drop dead date on "support", that's doable. [06:24] DaemonFC I can install those. It makes no sense not to. [06:24] phanes mjg59_, no my argument is that you have no credibility on this given your argument approach [06:25] mjg59_ phanes: You asked for evidence of a legal name, and you posted that evidence yourself [06:25] DaemonFC Plus, UEFI updates generally need Windows to be installed. [06:25] DaemonFC Which I don't have. [06:25] matey mjg are you an atheist? im agnostic for the most part [06:25] matey this isnt highly relevant, but it might be in a small way [06:25] mjg59_ matey: Broadly atheist, but not dogmatically so [06:26] matey science and religion can fuck, but im not sure how well they can cohabitate [06:26] mjg59_ matey: I don't believe that a higher being is required for anything we can observe to be explained, but I also refuse any scenario where I have to believe something absolutely [06:26] matey matey: I don't believe that a higher being is required <- no, and its funny how thats the point that so many people care about (im not pinning that on you-- if most people-- network effects.) [06:27] DaemonFC Life is pointless. You work, you maybe get ahead a little, maybe not. Many people have kids, many don't. Eventually, you get older, nobody comes around anymore. [06:27] DaemonFC Then one day a neighbor notices a funny smell and the police come in and find the cat eating your face. [06:27] mjg59_ phanes: You have evidence of sworn testimony regarding their legal name [06:27] mjg59_ phanes: Nobody in the case refutes that claim [06:27] phanes mjg59_, great, so get what i said you need and come back with that credible approach [06:27] mjg59_ phanes: That seems like evidence? [06:28] mjg59_ phanes: Can you describe, precisely, what evidence you need? [06:28] phanes i consider this a settled point of contention until that happens [06:28] matey i want to know why the constitution isnt authoratative enough on this [06:28] DaemonFC People believe in "higher powers" because they'd go nuts having to stop and think about what a waste the struggle is otherwise. [06:28] matey but if i have to wait [06:28] matey thats fine too [06:29] matey the premise of the legal name is based on the misconception that the only valid process for legal name change is a form [06:29] matey however, i thought based on experience with other states that there were other ways [06:29] matey i looked into those [06:29] DaemonFC All of this computer shit is hell. [06:30] phanes mjg59_, sorry i missed your last question: as previously explained to you, some artifact of a legal change of name would be enough [06:30] IPFS () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi [06:30] matey and found that its basically settled that this isnt merely a process available in some states [06:30] mjg59_ phanes: You have a court filing that asserts that it's their legal name [06:30] DaemonFC People had freedom when it wasn't surrounding them, spying on them, ruining their lives in ways they couldn't even fathom. [06:30] matey its a right guaranteed to all citizens by the constitution [06:30] mjg59_ phanes: Given that the court accepted that, it seems like evidence [06:30] phanes mjg59_, well, bub, you hold onto that. [06:30] DaemonFC Stephen Fry recommending Grindr about made me fall out of my chair. [06:30] mjg59_ phanes: Yeah you refusing to use the correct name at this point seems ideological [06:31] DaemonFC I just lost all respect then and there. [06:31] matey none of which i knew before today mind you [06:31] mjg59_ phanes: What would you need to change your opinion here? [06:31] phanes mjg59_, no i just provided criteria you refuse to meet. I do not bend to you. [06:31] matey but i am satisfied that their legal name is isis, and the rest is a simple misunderstanding / assumption [06:31] DaemonFC Everything I wrote about on my blog regarding Grindr are the ways it's harmful in a country where it's not illegal to be gay. [06:32] DaemonFC The police in some countries use it to hunt down gay men and arrest them. [06:32] DaemonFC Or worse. [06:32] matey what convinced me was my own research into the matter [06:32] DaemonFC The police in Illinois just focus 100% of their "Internet Sex Crimes" budget on gay men because they can do that. [06:33] mjg59_ phanes: You're saying that testimony to a federal court, which is accepted by that court, is not acceptable to you? [06:33] DaemonFC They can't bust people for being gay, but they can put 100% of their money for finding perverts on apps on Grindr. [06:33] matey mjg: thats a weak argument [06:33] phanes mjg59_, I would settle for a photocopy of a state issued ID [06:33] matey testimony to a federal court, which is accepted by that court <- the court could be wrong [06:33] matey i mean, about many things [06:33] DaemonFC It's just a quota thing. You can be arrested for saying you'd do drugs that...don't even exist. [06:33] mjg59_ matey: Eh if the federal government accepts someone's name that seems like the federal government accepts it? [06:33] matey i think theres a loophole here in that maybe the court CANT be wrong, in this instance [06:34] matey only because by being accepted, its right [06:34] mjg59_ matey: yeah they could be wrong but so could any branch of the government [06:34] matey yeah [06:34] DaemonFC That's a neat trick. [06:34] matey note this is a quibble, and doesnt change my overall opinion in the slightest [06:34] mjg59_ matey: What if the DMV accepts it and a federal court rejects it [06:34] mjg59_ Would we say the DMV is right? [06:34] matey i was the one that noted how peculiar it was to make the dmv the highest court in the land [06:34] DaemonFC Maybe for their next performance, they can get you to admit you'd like to speed if you didn't think there'd be any cops with a radar gun and get you on "conspiracy to speed" and issue "I'd like to speed." tickets to fund the government. [06:34] mjg59_ phanes: Why do you trust California more than the federal government? [06:35] matey california or the feds [06:35] mjg59_ matey: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm using your argument against your [06:35] matey tough call [06:35] DaemonFC mjg59_phanes: Why do you trust California more than the federal government? [06:35] matey I'm using your argument against you <- which is very silly when we reach the same conclusion about their name and its status [06:35] DaemonFC I like how Gavin Nuisance said Texas's civil lawsuit thing with abortions is illegal. [06:35] DaemonFC So they did the same thing there regarding guns. [06:36] DaemonFC Fucking stupid Democrats [06:36] matey but then i WAS quibbling about something (unimportant) [06:36] DaemonFC Why WOULD you trust California? [06:36] matey this isnt a chess game for me, its a high school civics class [06:36] mjg59_ matey: My argument here is just that if the federal government accepts a name in a legal filing then it should take a strong counterargument that that's not a legal name [06:37] matey and im one of the students [06:37] DaemonFC They're losing a Chicago's worth of people every 30 years or so at this rate, and there's no reason to think it would decelerate. [06:37] DaemonFC It will likely speed up as the bullshit that Gavin Newsom is signing now takes effect. [06:37] matey my argument is the same but the counterpoint you refer to is even stronger [06:37] matey its not just a law, its a constitutional right that establishes (either de facto or de jure) that isis is their legal name [06:38] DaemonFC The Democrats don't seem to have a big problem with losing elections and handing everything over to the Republicans. [06:38] DaemonFC Nancy got her "strong Republican Party", on the Supreme Court. [06:38] matey and its not even a right they "made for trans people" [06:38] matey it applies the same way to cis even [06:38] mjg59_ phanes: Why do you believe that a federal court would make use of someone's assertion regarding their legal name without it being their legal name? [06:38] DaemonFC The Democrats get in they make life worse than it's ever been before. [06:39] DaemonFC They remind everyone that nobody in government will help them. [06:39] phanes mjg59_, the window I made to consider your concern is now closed. [06:39] DaemonFC Then the Republicans wipe them out and change all of the election laws so they never lose power again. [06:39] matey phanes could go to a federal court, use the name englebert slapdybatch (im actually paraphrasing a trans comedian who was talking about a cis british musician) and make that "his legal name" [06:39] matey thats my point [06:39] DaemonFC And that's what's going to happen at the federal level now. They're all changing their laws so they can't lose those votes again. [06:40] DaemonFC They have an actual plan this time for stealing the election. [06:40] DaemonFC They'll be ready to declare anything they don't like a "failed election" and throw it to the legislatures. [06:40] DaemonFC And the US Supreme Court will let them do it. [06:40] mjg59_ phanes: Gosh you're clearly prioritising truth [06:40] matey in new hampshire theres a boatload of "freemans" doing this as a sort of stunt / gesture / activism / something [06:41] phanes mjg59_, indeed i am, using the best tools for the job. [06:41] mjg59_ phanes: You reject a court filing that describes someone's legal name? [06:42] mjg59_ phanes: One that is accepted by a federal court? [06:42] matey /me thinks this is easier to solve if we throw out the authorities entirely [06:42] matey not just out of preference-- this is a technical issue [06:42] mjg59_ matey: Removing the entire concept of legal name would be a benefit, yes [06:42] phanes mjg59_, anyone can send any of those artifacts I said you'd need to abuse@silogroup.org when requesting updates [06:42] matey not what i meant, but fair interpretation [06:42] matey it counts at least [06:43] mjg59_ phanes: https://archive.ph/G4Wbq is a filing in federal court describing someone's legal name [06:43] TR Bot TAODB [06:43] mjg59_ phanes: Do you reject that filing? [06:43] phanes not rehashing it, ive addressed this, you're just moving in circles now like it wasn't addressed [06:43] DaemonFC https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/bandits-rob-brooklyn-bishop-during-live-streamed-service/ [06:43] TR Bot Bandits rob Brooklyn bishop during live-streamed service [06:43] DaemonFC LOL [06:44] matey mjg: have you ever done meditation? [06:44] mjg59_ phanes: You're saying that a sworn statement to a federal court is not evidence? [06:44] matey most people get it wrong the first time, precisely because theyre hung up on "doing it right" [06:44] mjg59_ matey: I have! [06:45] matey what method do you use [06:45] DaemonFC https://nypost.com/2022/07/24/chess-playing-robot-breaks-7-year-old-opponents-finger/ [06:45] TR Bot Chess-playing robot breaks 7-year-old opponent's finger [06:45] mjg59_ matey: Self-directed, I'm not great on the terminology here [06:46] matey no worries [06:46] phanes wow this john gilmore thing is shocking [06:46] matey have you ever tried it in the middle of an online debate? [06:46] phanes what happened with john gilmore? [06:46] matey /me is interested in the john gilmmore thing [06:46] mjg59_ Mostly focusing on myself, identifying the external things that are distracting me, excluding those from my consciousness, just being in myself [06:47] matey id have to look it up. sometimes you can even start at techrights [06:47] matey its an encyclopedia, no matter what you think of it [06:47] mjg59_ matey: He invites people to his house in SF for parties and then gives them LSD without telling them [06:47] matey just being in myself <- have you ever tried it in the middle of an online debate? [06:47] mjg59_ (I don't have external citations for this, I just have several people who told me of their experiences) [06:48] mjg59_ matey: Yeah I don't always succeed, but I do try if I'm aware that I'm responding without appropriate consideration [06:48] phanes For anyone reading, please do NOT try LSD in the middle of an online debate. [06:49] matey if you put the debate away from your consciousness for a moment, its not like flagging the issue as unimportant or wontfix [06:49] phanes Just in case any wires get crossed there. [06:49] mjg59_ matey: Agree [06:49] matey its more like saving it as a file, rebooting the machine and then opening it, with a clearer [06:49] matey something [06:50] matey or switching to single user mode and then coming back etc [06:50] mjg59_ matey: Don't know if you've watched Halt and Catch Fire? There's aspects of a lead character's behaviour in season 4 that align with this [06:50] matey ive never seen it [06:50] phanes So what happened with Will Scott? [06:50] mjg59_ It's actullay very good [06:50] phanes at the EFF [06:50] matey /me is no fan of the eff [06:50] matey i think mjg is still there :) on the board at least [06:50] mjg59_ matey: Never been on the EFF board [06:51] matey obviously thinking of someone else [06:51] matey https://www.eff.org/about/board [06:51] TR Bot EFF's Board of Directors | Electronic Frontier Foundation [06:51] mjg59_ I gave a talk there in 2015, won their 2019 trivia contest, came second in their 2022 trivial contest [06:51] matey ah, i bet i was thinking of kuhn [06:51] matey I gave a talk there in 2015 <- its not that, i was mixing you up with kuhn [06:51] matey its funny but you dont remind me of him that much [06:52] matey its just the occupational proximity [06:52] phanes mjg59_, any comment on john gilmore and will scott? [06:52] mjg59_ phanes: Literally no clue what you're talking about [06:52] matey /me looks up the gilmore scott thing again [06:52] matey i read about it this year, probably past few months [06:53] mjg59_ I think John Gilmore's a piece of shit for various reasons, but I don't think I've said anything about that publicly? [06:53] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [06:53] matey i tried contacting gilmore but no real surprise he didnt get back [06:53] mjg59_ No idea who Will Scott is offhand [06:53] matey for various reasons <- and youd care to share [06:53] mjg59_ matey: I mentioned above [06:53] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [06:53] matey https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/25/john_gilmore_removed_from_eff_board/ [06:53] TR Bot EFF co-founder John Gilmore removed from org's Board The Register [06:53] matey https://www.itsecuritynews.info/john-gilmore-leaves-the-eff-board-becomes-board-member-emeritus/ [06:54] TR Bot John Gilmore Leaves the EFF Board, Becomes Board Member Emeritus | IT Security News [06:55] phanes """In October 2017, Lovecruft accused computer pioneer and cofounder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Gilmore, of hiring a thug to assault Lovecruft and drag them into the street. (Todd Decl. 36 & Ex. L.) At the same time, Lovecruft accused Gilmore of conspiring with this thug to store illegal substances in Gilmores house. (Todd Decl. 36 & Ex. L.) Notably, Lovecruft made these accusations shortly after Gilmore questioned th [06:55] phanes eir rape allegations against Appelbaum.""" [06:55] matey For anyone reading, please do NOT try LSD in the middle of an online debate. <- wouldnt dream of it, pink lizard frisbee. [06:56] mjg59_ phanes: I feel like we've just established that you don't believe things merely because they're in a legal filing? [06:56] phanes mjg59_, so you deny that she made this accusation? [06:56] matey matey: He invites people to his house in SF for parties and then gives them LSD without telling them <- somehow i missed this [06:56] mjg59_ phanes: Please stop misgendering people [06:56] phanes s/she/they/ [06:57] mjg59_ phanes: They also asserted what their legal name was [06:57] mjg59_ phanes: Why do you place more value in one assertion more than the other? [06:58] phanes That wasn't my question, what my question is whether or not your fiance made that accusation of John Gilmore. [06:58] matey mjg: i find it trickier to get the hang of properly gendering non-binary individuals than mtf or ftm, which is pretty easy [06:58] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [06:58] mjg59_ matey: It is work, I don't blame people for getting it wrong [06:58] phanes only when it suits you [06:58] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114]) [06:58] matey including with non-binary individuals i greatly admire, would HATE to offend, and even care about emotionally [06:58] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [06:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [06:59] mjg59_ phanes: I asked a question first here [06:59] mjg59_ phanes: Do you believe that things in a legal filing are true? [06:59] matey on top of this, im a HUGE fan of singular they (not only for referencing gender, but just as a grammattical tool before trans rights were even-- remember hrc?) [06:59] phanes yeah, your questions are disruptive distractions [06:59] matey not clinton, the half-arsed lgb-whatever org [06:59] phanes these are meat of the issue concerns ● Jul 25 [07:00] matey /me has always supported pflag over hrc, because the latter suck [07:00] mjg59_ phanes: Basically: If you believe that this filing represents an accusation, you also believe that a filing represented a legal name [07:00] phanes mjg59_, nah [07:00] mjg59_ Ok, so you don't believe that things in a legal filing are true [07:00] phanes i'll go ahead and assume that your fiance did in fact accuse John Gilmore of that and more on [07:00] matey i dont know if hrc is actually a terf org, i assume its where the terfs go to feel organised [07:01] mjg59_ phanes: But you won't assume that they actually represented their legal name? [07:01] phanes mjg59_, nope sure wont [07:01] mjg59_ Ok cool [07:01] mjg59_ I think we've established that you're very in on deadnaming someone [07:01] phanes nah we've established that you will say that a thousand times to try to convince people of that despite being given a clear way to clear it up [07:01] mjg59_ In that literally nobody here is willing to defend your deadnaming [07:01] matey this is like tapping a tech support call with a major provider [07:02] *phanes shrugs [07:02] matey its just going in this awful script [07:02] mjg59_ phanes: Hey look seriously I am genuine in saying that this undermines the argument you're making [07:03] matey in this instance mjg, i agree with (the important part) of your position, and your right to pursue this like youre doing [07:03] mjg59_ The people who are largely aligned with me are the ones who are most likely to ignore you because of deadnaming [07:03] matey but i cant feel like youve failed to learn from countless years of your homelands history [07:03] phanes so the john gilmore accusation is assumed to have taken place; what about this Will Scott thing? [07:03] matey help feel like ^ [07:04] matey The people who are largely aligned with me are the ones who are most likely to ignore you because of deadnaming <- thats immaterial, hes not trying to impress them [07:04] mjg59_ matey: If I end up undermining myself because I'm defending my partner's identity I'm ok with that [07:04] phanes yeah politicking on this is only serving my interests, matt [07:04] matey youre trying to corner him into a series of gotchas [07:04] mjg59_ matey: Ugh seriously I'm not realpolitiking this [07:04] matey because I'm defending my partner's identity I'm ok with that <- i think youre in the right to pursue defending their preferred name/gender [07:05] matey i dont even think you have to do it the way i think would be better (whatever that is) [07:05] mjg59_ matey: I earnestly care about not having my partner deal with unnecssary bullshit [07:05] matey and im not assuming that theres a way for either of you to reach each other [07:05] matey and i dont think we are all friends or any crap like that [07:05] phanes mjg59_, Will Scott: """On December 26, 2016, Lovecruft accused third party Will Scott of gang rape""" <-- can you validate this claim [07:06] mjg59_ phanes: I can say nothing about that at all [07:06] phanes mjg59_, can or won't? [07:06] mjg59_ I'm familiar with what's in court filings, I know nothing beyond that [07:06] phanes but this occured while you were engaged, did it not? [07:06] mjg59_ No? [07:07] phanes you didn't know your fiance was accusing a colleague of gang rape and another of hiring a thug to assault them? [07:07] matey this channel needs a damned marker board [07:07] mjg59_ 2016 < 2020 [07:07] phanes read that twice ^ [07:08] mjg59_ I am unaware of the claims you're describing [07:08] phanes oh so you were not engaged until 2020? [07:08] mjg59_ Yeah I think there's evidence of that [07:09] phanes when did the romance start? I know you met in 2015ish but people don't usually just be distance friends and then suddenly get engaged. [07:10] mjg59_ k [07:11] phanes i think the safe assumption is that you know about these events and are lying to cover for your fiance and create plausible deniability in case the usual pattern of events with me runs its course. [07:11] mjg59_ You can definitely assert that I'm lying [07:11] phanes i do and have [07:12] mjg59_ You accept that if you falsely assert that I'm lying and that people have a worse opinion of me as a result, that that's defamation, right? [07:12] matey no [07:12] matey he thinks youre lying [07:12] matey thats not defamation [07:12] matey he states that he thinks youre lying [07:12] matey thats not defamation either [07:13] mjg59_ matey: Oh there's a distinction between "I think you're lying" and "You're lying [07:13] matey everyone in the world is a liar [07:13] matey LIFE OVER [07:13] matey nope [07:13] mjg59_ matey: It depends on the specific context [07:13] matey okay [07:13] matey then nope [07:13] matey but i suppose if he wrote a whole book called mjg is a liar [07:13] mjg59_ Yeah it depends on whether the claim is negligent or malicious [07:13] matey and it uses your whole name, and he goes into various details and works out "proof" that is in fact false [07:13] matey etc etc etc [07:14] matey i mean [07:14] mjg59_ A whole book would be evidence of malice [07:14] mjg59_ A single claim would be negligence, plausibly [07:14] mjg59_ But this is a case where he's been given the truth [07:14] phanes sounds like some of those legal theories yall socialized during freenode [07:14] mjg59_ So continuing to assert otherwise isn't negligence [07:14] matey freenode was a clusterfuck [07:14] phanes matey, yeah it really was lol [07:15] phanes matey, rock and a hard place on that one man [07:15] mjg59_ But hey I'm not a lawyer or a judge, I can't tell you what to do [07:15] matey continuing to assert otherwise isn't negligence <- so once youve told him a few times if he still doesnt agree now its malice? [07:15] matey i doubt it. no new information has been created [07:15] matey he has no additional reasons to agree with you or believe you [07:15] phanes just because youre not typing in all caps doesn't mean youre not mad [07:15] matey i mean, this isnt how it works or everyone is fucked [07:16] mjg59_ matey: It'd probably get past an Anti-SLAPP staute, whether it'd convince a jury is another matter [07:16] *phanes checks the mail every day [07:16] matey just the fact that you go from him disagreeing with you on a single point to the courtroom is... [07:17] mjg59_ matey: Oh urgh yeah I understand that perception [07:17] phanes bear in mind this is coming from the guy who thinks "identity theft" and "satire" are the same thing [07:17] matey i mean even in the though process [07:17] matey thoguht [07:17] matey fuck typing, im getting a dot [07:17] phanes we're not dealing with reasonable, we're dealing with calm [07:17] mjg59_ matey: He's accused me of defamation, so I end up viewing his claims in that lens [07:17] matey thats reasonable in a way [07:18] matey i would quibble over the scope [07:18] mjg59_ matey: I'm not actually threatening to sue, I'm just trying to point out that (from a legal perspective) he's potentially behaving in the way he accuses me of behaving [07:18] matey i think its hard to see the tso stuff as anything other than defamation [07:19] matey he's potentially behaving in the way he accuses me of behaving <- /me nods [07:19] mjg59_ matey: Hrm. I tried very hard in that post to draw a line from evidence to my conclusion. [07:19] phanes i think its hard to see these facts all up next to each other as anything but a continued pattern of defamation of many people over many years, and strong social links to people who do the same [07:19] mjg59_ matey: I would really appreciate earnest disagreement with that path [07:19] matey . I tried very hard in that post to draw a line <- while i believe that statement [07:19] phanes and ive got to be honest, the more i learn the more obvious it gets [07:19] matey i looked very hard for the line [07:19] matey and i believe you tried very hard in that post to draw that line [07:20] matey i think its hard to see these facts all up next to each other as anything but a continued pattern of defamation of many people over many years <- have a countertheory [07:20] matey i do that is [07:20] phanes its not confirmation bias [07:20] matey no its not about you at all [07:21] matey do you know that well over a decade ago, i was starting to turn into a textbook sjw? [07:22] matey no, but thats rhetorical [07:22] matey i got over it (At leaat i think so) [07:22] matey because it was pointless [07:22] matey and it really went against too many things that were important to me [07:23] matey but we had this movement, you kno [07:23] matey and it seemed pretty good, free software was going well [07:23] mjg59_ matey: My basic argument is that you can't argue that people who describe a situation in which what happened to them met the legal definition of rape weren't raped [07:23] matey but there were a few racist cunts around that [07:23] matey well, i got similar idea that the sjws have had [07:24] matey we have all this freedom [07:24] matey why cant we do something about THIS [07:24] matey and of course by THIS i mean some people are cunts [07:24] matey just kind of nasty people [07:24] mjg59_ matey: And if you are going to argue that things that met the legal definition of rape weren't actually rape, then yeah, you're a rape apologist [07:24] matey anyway, i never suggested a code of conduct [07:25] phanes Indeed, if he had been truthfully accounting for the events while saying these things, there would be appropriate anger in his audience. [07:25] matey the closest thing to it was jono bacons prototype and even then i thought that was bullshit [07:25] matey #openrespect [07:25] matey #suckoffcanonical [07:26] matey but i was like [07:26] matey why cant we just tell these people to stop being racist or gtfo [07:26] matey and you can [07:26] matey you totally can [07:26] matey if a project doesnt want people-- a project can get rid of people [07:26] matey theres a little more to it, details wise [07:27] phanes which is fine [07:27] matey its not entirely technical / legal theres all kinds of relevant politics [07:27] matey but [07:27] matey theres a fucking hazard too [07:27] matey and the hazard is [07:27] phanes until project members start calling people racist to change the project roster for their project [07:27] matey well, like with mccarthy [07:27] matey yeah that too [07:27] matey my really excellent idea assumed honest people would be in charge :) [07:28] matey and really if id had any idea what the fuck i was even proposing-- mostly to myself, you know [07:28] matey i would have realised that this was a stupid idea that looked like a reasonable idea [07:28] phanes its an easy trap to fall into for the well intended [07:28] matey beacuse many of the premises were inherently reasonable [07:28] matey and many of the details were absolute monkey shit [07:28] mjg59_ matey: So seriously, I would genuinely like to understand the disagreement about my description of Ted's behaviour [07:28] matey i actually figured this out on my own [07:28] matey but first! [07:29] phanes misrepresenting his entire position would be a start [07:29] matey i took a LONG DETOUR from the place i thought was "apathetic" and went on to give a shit about other projects [07:29] phanes which you didnt seem to do as much in the mailing list as in your blog post [07:29] phanes but i haven't broken the t'so issue down as far as id like, lots of email responses im waiting on and lots of reading to do [07:30] matey THERE IS a point i was going to make, if i managed to get to it [07:30] matey and its this [07:30] matey i basically wanted thought policing [07:30] matey not directly [07:30] matey not even as a LAW or RULE or POLICY [07:30] matey not a coc [07:30] matey just sort of [07:30] matey i wanted people to take time out to do casual thought policing [07:30] phanes you wanted a culture shift [07:30] matey so people would stop being racist [07:31] matey YEAH! [07:31] matey and i still think thats sort of reasonable [07:31] matey but the way i wanted to do it [07:31] matey 1. wouldnt work 2. side effects 3. destroy everything [07:31] matey so its like curing the hiccups by shooting yourself [07:31] matey it works... [07:31] matey but thats hardly the point [07:32] matey theres nothing wrong with curing hiccups [07:32] matey i dont like them personally [07:32] matey i dont agree with scott adams that negativity was the problem [07:32] matey a fucking dumb solution was the problem [07:32] matey i still dont like racist cunts [07:33] matey but i dislike the thought police because they destroy everything [07:33] matey the point was [07:33] mjg59_ matey: I feel like there's a situation here that's actually analagous to between me and my partner [07:33] matey you can get to wanting to thought police-- without wanting to destroy everything [07:34] matey sure-- if youre ibm, you probably want to destroy free software [07:34] matey i BELIEVE there is plenty of evidence of that shit [07:34] mjg59_ They're an anarchist, I lean towards socialism, so we broadly agree on an end goal but we disagree with the mechanism and the holder of the power in getting there [07:34] matey so im not saying "everybody is innocent" AT ALL [07:34] matey im not saying "LETS TAKE PEOPLES WORDS FOR IT!" either [07:35] matey ive said over and over and over that narcissists and pc bullshit have destroyed the movement [07:35] phanes I'm not sure about that, I hear "socialism" and "anarchy" and my brain pictures piles of dead bodies that cover up distance mountains on the horizon. [07:35] phanes distant* [07:35] matey but thats the group. the mob. the big problem [07:35] matey if youre dealing with one individual, they dont necessarily think "how i can destroy all this" [07:36] matey thats not (always) their m.o. [07:36] matey this matters to me, as i think understanding WTF happened is key to the future [07:36] phanes matey, well in the case of a narcissist theyre usually not thinking that far out [07:36] matey and getting it wrong will only lead to strategic errors [07:36] mjg59_ matey: And I don't think we fundamentally disagree about where free software should be, but we disagree about the path to get there [07:37] matey but we disagree about the path to get there <- i used to say that when i was an open source guy [07:37] phanes giving the keys of the kingdom to microsoft is where free software should be? [07:37] mjg59_ matey: Like, should functional communities be top down or be bottom up? [07:37] matey its the right idea in the form of the wrong question [07:37] matey https://techrights.org/2019/10/23/top-down-gnu/ [07:37] TR Bot Why GNU Is Better Staying Top-Down, Even If Free Software Isnt | Techrights [07:38] matey that article isnt really important at all now [07:38] matey its just a reference point [07:38] matey matey: Like, should functional communities be top down or be bottom up? <- bottom up [07:38] matey just not the way you think (and that matters) [07:39] mjg59_ matey: Yeah I think there's room to talk there [07:39] mjg59_ I have opinions. They may be wrong! [07:39] matey this is a VERY fundamental problem between left wing factions [07:39] mjg59_ Haha yup [07:39] matey fundamental because without getting it right, everything gets fubared [07:39] mjg59_ Being on the left means that there's a lot of very subtle ways to disagree [07:39] matey I have opinions. They may be wrong! <- this was pre github purchase and i wouldnt watch it today [07:40] matey but did you ever watch red vs blue [07:40] mjg59_ The Half Life based thing? [07:40] matey i think so [07:40] matey i thought it was halo [07:40] mjg59_ I know "But that's illegal!" and that's about it [07:40] mjg59_ Oh yeah Halo [07:40] mjg59_ I'm sorry, I'm old [07:40] matey im older than you [07:40] matey but close enough [07:41] mjg59_ I'm old enough that I rarely hit that, which I think means I'm old [07:41] matey 40s, 40s, same differences [07:41] matey I'm old enough that I rarely hit that <- i have no idea what this means, but its funny [07:42] mjg59_ matey: I don't often end up talking to people with opinions on free software who are older than me! [07:42] matey oh i got it [07:42] mjg59_ But I guess it could be about sex, in which case no comment [07:42] matey no no [07:42] mjg59_ Roy would be upset [07:42] matey i was sure you didnt mean that [07:43] matey roy is honestly a prude. literally. [07:43] matey he will say hes not [07:43] mjg59_ Roy is very straightedge [07:43] matey but i was certain you didnt mean it that way [07:43] matey so i was looking at it and thinking [07:43] matey "WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN THEN?" [07:43] matey it was funny [07:43] mjg59_ A lot of my comedy is inadvertant [07:43] matey sort of like the hungarian phrasebook in reverse [07:44] matey or even forward [07:44] matey anyway [07:44] mjg59_ matey: But seriously, I would be interested in your perspective of what I wrote about Ted, because I trust you and I also believe I wrote that earnestly (I mean, a decade ago) and I'd like to figure out disparities [07:45] matey i dont want to give you more credit than you deserve... [07:45] mjg59_ matey: But also that doesn't need to be now [07:45] matey for your sake, but also because i think accuracy REALLY helps [07:45] mjg59_ It's late and happy to do that some other time, but want to say I'm happy to discuss it [07:45] matey i mean i think you helped destroy the career of a good person, probably [07:46] matey im NOT sure any of it was malicious, but there are lots of reasons i could be wrong [07:46] matey im stating where i am with that Now [07:46] matey id be perfectly happy to say goddammnit you piece of shit [07:46] matey but right now... [07:46] matey technical metaphor [07:46] mjg59_ I understand your position [07:46] matey simplest one i can think of [07:47] matey suppose you have a server [07:47] mjg59_ I haven't seen any evidence I actually caused damage [07:47] matey and its being... its not working [07:47] matey butterfly flaps his wings in asia, wildfire starts in california. [07:47] mjg59_ But I also think speaking what we believe to be the truth should be countered with other perceiptions of the truth [07:47] matey but this aint a butterfly and its not in asia. [07:47] matey with other perceiptions of the truth <- i agree [07:48] matey otherwise youre just the pope [07:48] matey though there are other models which are as unfortunate [07:48] matey like a mob [07:48] matey i guess single lesson advice time [07:49] matey if you lead anything in the future [07:49] matey anything at all [07:49] matey retire from leading mobs [07:49] matey let someone else lead the mob [07:49] matey this is tongue in cheek because i dont think youre THE leader and you dont either [07:49] phanes pig in a pope hat? [07:49] mjg59_ I understand the argument that I have enough influence that some people will accept what I say without critical analysis [07:49] matey pope in a pig hat [07:50] mjg59_ And I'd love to know how I can express my opinion in a way that doesn't result in that, but instead results in critical analysis of what I say [07:50] mjg59_ I don't want people to agree with me because of me [07:50] matey And I'd love to know how I can express my opinion in a way <- ok [07:50] matey no i havent got it yet [07:51] mjg59_ And I will definitely take advice there [07:51] matey i was thinking of dijkstra :) [07:51] matey he destroyed goto! [07:51] matey but its still here [07:51] phanes people who attract ideologues tend to be surrounded by ideologues, have to change what you attract, and to do that you have to change who you are and what you represent [07:51] matey really, dijkstra was the ORIGINAL tech industry canceller [07:51] matey and it was an accident. [07:52] matey he CANCELLED GOTO [07:52] matey and its fine to "cancel" bad tech-- like the pinto! [07:52] matey terrible design [07:52] matey should NEVER BE BUILT AGAIN [07:52] matey but goto isnt really like that [07:52] phanes i wouldn't drive a pinto lol [07:53] matey but dijkstra, while never intended to destroy goto so savagely [07:53] matey did anyway, because the people who took him seriously (about goto) were not as smart as he was [07:53] matey and because wirth wrote that damned title for the article (which dijkstra didnt) [07:53] matey and now goto is much maligned for things that dont even matter and arent even true. [07:54] matey people are now superstitious about goto (which also goes by jmp) instead of educated about it [07:54] matey and i feel confident this was never the intention [07:54] matey there were even followups on this [07:54] matey from the man himself [07:54] matey we know it was wirth who wrote the title [07:55] matey but, sadly, most people are simply like [07:55] matey "dont use goto, its terrible and will RUIN YOU AS A CODER FOREVER" [07:55] matey and no amount of setting the record straight has changed this :) [07:55] phanes honestly it kinda does create flow control issues [07:55] matey goto was cancelled [07:56] matey honestly it kinda does create flow control issues <- of course it does. you should generally follow dijkstras advice about it, unless youre an incredible masochist [07:56] matey but there are workarounds, there are caveats, there are places where it only makes sense where today people treat it like some kind of eldritch incantation [07:57] matey that which must never be coded [07:57] matey and its bollocks [07:57] matey the other thing is, its SUCH an easy concept to teach [07:57] matey jmp [07:57] matey one move. [07:57] matey i learned to code when i was FIVE man [07:57] matey from a book [07:57] matey goto i could handle [07:58] matey do loop... huh? [07:58] matey im five! [07:58] matey why do you [07:58] matey i only want to move once [07:58] matey but then it goes back! [07:58] matey just use break [07:58] matey now its THREE commands! why? [07:58] matey just one! [07:58] matey you cant explain this shit to a five year old, they know theyre right [07:58] matey goto makes sense, wtf is do loop [07:58] matey "really you should use gosub" [07:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [07:59] matey i couldnt understand gosub. it was like an alien thing. [07:59] matey def p(): in python makes more sense than gosub [07:59] matey but in basic, scoped function syntax is BULLSHIT [07:59] matey or it was at the time ● Jul 25 [08:00] matey and why scope! why-- i want-- dammit [08:00] phanes lol [08:00] matey you cant explain these things to a (now 7) year old [08:00] matey you can try [08:00] matey i tried! to explain it to me [08:00] matey i was just *turns head sideways* [08:01] matey if id known how to say "what the fuck" back then i would have [08:01] matey so goto is a VERY simple idea [08:01] matey and theres a debian / gopher guy [08:01] matey john goerrrr [08:01] matey goerzen? [08:01] matey anyway, i think he defends goto on the same grounds while he teaches his (then) 5 year old the command line [08:01] matey and bash functions dont have scope so theyre fucking gosub anyway! [08:02] matey (i LOVE function scope in python. but thats today) [08:02] phanes you can _create_ scope in bash [08:02] matey today people try to learn JS first. thats nuts [08:02] matey i would just use different files [08:02] matey i think theres scope then. god i hope so [08:02] matey i know environments can be inherited [08:02] matey it sounds scary [08:03] matey when i start having to think about this stuff in bash (or ksh) i use a real language [08:03] phanes they can [08:03] phanes its actually harder to ensure a blank env than to inherit the parent env [08:03] matey i not hating on the shell [08:03] phanes thats one of the reasons i created rex [08:03] matey its just too much work for me sometimes for some tasks [08:03] matey nice [08:03] phanes i need to compile a whole bunch of stuff for cross-compiling a sysroot that needed a very controlled context [08:04] matey today it makes more sense to teach python than basic [08:04] phanes https://source.silogroup.org/SURRO-Linux/rex [08:04] TR Bot SURRO-Linux/rex: Rex is a project-based, json-driven execution flow/workflow system designed to place rails around very complex automations in a controlled way that is easy to troubleshoot. - rex - SILO GROUP SCM [08:04] matey but basic was easier. and python 2 was closer to basic than python 3. [08:04] matey and no one should ever learn js first :( [08:04] matey not because it will ruin them as coders [08:04] matey only because its cruel [08:05] phanes i need to rewrite rex from scratch tbh [08:05] phanes the code quality imo is terrible [08:05] phanes especially in the Sproc implementation [08:05] phanes its a solid proof of concept i guess [08:05] phanes gets the job done [08:05] phanes but need to hire some more proficient coders to knock it out [08:06] matey stallman is the patron saint of chestertons fence [08:06] matey youd think it would be chesterton [08:06] phanes lol [08:07] matey Compiling Rex is easy. There are zero external dependencies. Build does require cmake. [08:07] phanes yep [08:07] phanes runtime has no dependencies outside of libstdc++ but compile requires cmake and gnu-c++ [08:07] matey this sounds very 1776 [08:07] matey A name, which is an identifier for the Unit used by people. [08:08] matey i bet reading shit i wrote in a heat wave is better than hearing shit you said when high [08:08] matey "wtf did i-- what?" [08:08] phanes you gave me a panic attack, i said alot of things in my 20s [08:09] matey mea culpa [08:09] phanes 20s me was the patron saint of people who should not be listened to [08:09] matey that was most people in their 20s [08:09] matey and mjg in his 30s [08:09] matey zing [08:09] phanes just because i always won the argument, too many people did [08:10] matey so my metaphor for mjg is this [08:11] matey in red vs blue, there was a character [08:11] matey he was actually a bomb, and he had ai [08:11] matey why did he have ai? [08:11] matey there was no reason, except he was built from robot parts [08:11] matey so he had ai [08:12] matey and his sole purpose was to go off and destroy an enemy ship [08:12] matey and he was REALLY REALLY eager to do [08:12] matey it [08:12] mjg59_ I mean, Dark Star [08:12] matey and youre probably thinking he went off early [08:12] matey nope [08:12] mjg59_ We have precedent from the 70s [08:12] matey he actually did exactly what was needed [08:13] matey which isnt part of the metaphor i hasten to add [08:13] matey but thats how the story went [08:13] matey the point of the metaphor [08:13] matey was he was armed the whole fucking time [08:13] matey and the only thing he was ever interested in doing (and in this instance, capable of doing) w [08:13] phanes any chance of getting a demonstration with handpuppets in a little theatre stage [08:13] matey was going off [08:14] matey i mean i can probably find the episode on youtube [08:14] matey he had conversations with the soldier that built him [08:14] matey he was very sarcastic and kind of tunny [08:14] matey funny [08:14] matey but basically every situation was like [08:14] matey are we there yet? are we there yet? [08:15] matey can i do it now? can i do it now? [08:15] matey he can only do it once, but hes very keen on it [08:15] matey when he finally does hes lke OH BOY!!!!! [08:16] matey but hes just ready to jump in there [08:16] matey of course if he had gone off early it would defeated the entire point of the mission [08:16] matey and here we are [08:17] phanes i agree with taht assessment [08:17] matey https://yewtu.be/watch?v=rOJo6q2aWqY [08:17] TR Bot Season 3, Episode 54 - Hello My Name Is Andrew | Red vs. Blue - Invidious [08:17] matey https://yewtu.be/watch?v=b-ozamfqsH0 [08:17] TR Bot Red vs Blue - Andy the Bomb - Invidious [08:19] matey shisno. [08:19] matey hehehehe [08:19] phanes ah i can't watch this [08:19] phanes sorry [08:19] phanes ill take your word about thge plot [08:20] matey honestly i feel bad even introducing anyone to it [08:20] matey i stopped watching it after the github purchase [08:20] matey MAN i was pissed [08:20] matey and that was in 2018 [08:21] phanes one thing ive gotta say, the plaintiff's legal team in this does a much better job formatting and organizing their content than the defendant [08:21] phanes you can feel the skill behind it transcribing it [08:22] matey i went through most of the oreilly book on information architecture or something like that [08:22] matey i wish i could say i can apply it [08:22] matey bob ross and mary popppins in the fly chamber [08:22] matey the scene where she makes everything go neatly into its right place [08:23] matey unless i dreamt that [08:23] phanes when you ingest content like that you don't really get a new skill, you just get subtly better and more organized at how you work with information [08:23] matey bob ross happily painting every snippet of data into a place that makes perfect sense [08:23] phanes its one of those skills that applies to everything [08:24] matey i still dont get stallmans beef with "content" [08:24] matey i hate that page with a passion, though the premise (once again) is perfectly reasonable [08:26] phanes data framing is everything to turning data into intelligence [08:27] TR News #HowTo Change MAC Address in Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167625 [08:27] TR Bot How to Change MAC Address in Linux | Tux Machines [08:33] phanes aw freenode found one of my bait alts :( [08:33] phanes I really liked Jose [08:33] schestowitz[TR2] matey: ^_^ [08:33] schestowitz[TR2] https://postmarketos.org/blog/2022/07/25/considering-sourcehut/ [08:33] TR Bot postmarketOS // Considering SourceHut [08:33] matey still seems like a useless model to me [08:34] matey you pay and pay and pay, you stop paying and it disappears [08:34] phanes I bet John Dennison saw the domain jose was using (amigo.serentos.org) [08:34] matey they least they can do is act as a mirror if you stop paying to be able to modify it [08:35] TR News Microsoft: KB5015882, KB5015814 updates break Start menu in Windows 11 https://www.windowslatest.com/2022/07/25/microsoft-confirms-kb5015882-kb5015814-break-start-menu-in-windows-11/ [08:35] TR Bot Microsoft: KB5015882, KB5015814 updates break Start menu in Windows 11 [08:36] TR News Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167626 [08:36] TR Bot today's howtos | Tux Machines [08:38] TR News IRC Proceedings: Sunday, July 24, 2022 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/irc-log-240722/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/irc-log-240722/ [08:38] TR Bot IRC Proceedings: Sunday, July 24, 2022 | Techrights [08:38] TR News postmarketOS // Considering SourceHut Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167627 [08:38] TR Bot postmarketOS // Considering SourceHut | Tux Machines [08:38] TR News "Hinds said the decision not to criminally charge Uber reflected new management's prompt investigation and disclosures" https://cio.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/enterprise-services-and-applications/uber-admits-covering-up-2016-hacking-avoids-prosecution-in-u-s-settlement/93064257 | Source: India Times [08:39] TR Bot uber: Uber admits covering up 2016 hacking, avoids prosecution in U.S. settlement, CIO News, ET CIO [08:39] matey aw freenode found one of my bait alts [08:39] TR News Microsoft sham https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/25/aws_slams_microsoft_cloud_licenses/ | Source: The Register UK [08:39] TR Bot AWS sales boss claims Microsoft's cloud licenses The Register [08:39] matey jealous ones still envy [08:40] TR News Another reason to cancel Netflix https://www.computerworld.com/article/3667283/netflix-to-launch-ad-supported-tier-with-microsoft-in-2023.html | Source: Computer World [08:40] TR Bot to launch ad-supported tier with Microsoft in 2023 | Computerworld [08:40] TR News "Based on the comments on our story and comments Ive seen across Twitter, Reddit" https://www.theverge.com/23274393/amazon-prime-video-netflix-hbo-apps-look-the-same | Source: The Verge [08:40] TR Bot Streaming video apps all look the same now - The Verge [08:41] TR News 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: July 24th, 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167628 [08:41] TR Bot 9to5Linux Weekly Roundup: July 24th, 2022 | Tux Machines [08:43] TR News "I say this not to say "Oh, think of the poor billionaires, managing a company from their yacht parties must be so stressful! :(" but rather to point out that *everyone* is worse off under oppressive hierarchies, even when those hierarchies seem to explicitly benefit them." gemini://skylarhill.me/posts/hadestown-and-how-power-sucks.gmi [08:44] TR News A 70s TV With 20s Parts https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/a-70s-tv-with-20s-parts/ | Source: Hackaday [08:44] TR Bot 70s TV With 20s Parts | Hackaday [08:46] TR News system76 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=https://www.muylinux.com/2022/07/13/system76-launch-lite/ [08:46] TR Bot System76 anuncia Launch Lite su nuevo teclado personalizable [08:48] TR News "having the list where you can see it during the video" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-240722.html#tJul%2024%2003:42:18 [08:48] TR Bot IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Sunday, July 24, 2022 [08:48] TR News "github controls more than half of free software" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-230722.html#tJul%2023%2023:36:09 [08:48] TR Bot IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, July 23, 2022 [08:48] TR News standing up against history rewriting, isnt "hero worship" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-230722.html#tJul%2023%2001:56:11 [08:48] TR Bot IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, July 23, 2022 [08:49] TR News "A few days ago, IBASE unveiled an ATX motherboard debuting the 12th Gen Intel Core processors." https://linuxgizmos.com/atx-board-integrates-12th-gen-intel-processors-dual-2-5gbe-quad-displays-and-5g-lte-support/ | Source: Linux Gizmos [08:49] TR Bot ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/atx-board-integrates-12th-gen-intel-processors-dual-2-5gbe-quad-displays-and-5g-lte-support/ ) [08:49] TR News "The Espoir is a four-layer board that features the ESP32-MINI-1 which is a dual core processor with maximum frequency of 240MHz." https://linuxgizmos.com/esp32-based-poe-board-designed-for-home-automation-applications/ | Source: Linux Gizmos [08:49] TR Bot ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/esp32-based-poe-board-designed-for-home-automation-applications/ ) [08:51] TR News "Paper straws are not enough. Only System Change can halt the climate crisis." https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/25/paper-straws-are-not-enough/ | Source: Counter Punch [08:51] TR Bot Straws Are Not Enough - CounterPunch.org [08:52] TR News Roads Are Literally Melting in Europe https://truthout.org/articles/roads-are-literally-melting-in-europe-during-unprecedented-heat-wave/ | Source: TruthOut [08:52] TR Bot Roads Are Literally Melting in Europe During Unprecedented Heat Wave [08:52] TR News US Federal Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised in 13 Years https://truthout.org/articles/federal-minimum-wage-hasnt-been-raised-in-13-years/ | Source: TruthOut [08:52] TR Bot Federal Minimum Wage Hasn't Been Raised in 13 Years [08:54] TR News Trader Joe https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/07/25/why-trader-joes-workers-are-joining-the-fight-to-unionize/ | Source: Counter Punch [08:54] TR Bot Trader Joes Workers Are Joining the Fight to Unionize - CounterPunch.org [08:56] TR News Sony https://torrentfreak.com/sony-flags-its-own-website-for-repeat-copyright-infringements-220724/ | Source: Torrent Freak [08:56] TR Bot Flags Its Own Website for Repeat Copyright Infringements * TorrentFreak [08:56] TR News "Congress must act to raise wages for the tens of millions of workers who are struggling just to get by." https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/24/13th-anniversary-last-minimum-wage-hike-dems-urged-raise-deplorable-725-floor | Source: Common Dreams [08:56] TR Bot On 13th Anniversary of Last Minimum Wage Hike, Dems Urged to Raise 'Deplorable' $7.25 Floor [08:57] TR News 3D-Printed Gearbox https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/stackable-3d-printed-gearbox-for-brushless-motor/ | Source: Hackaday [08:57] TR Bot 3D-Printed Gearbox For Brushless Motor | Hackaday [08:58] TR News Laser Engraver https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/interesting-optics-make-this-laser-engraver-fit-in-a-pocket/ | Source: Hackaday [08:58] TR Bot Optics Make This Laser Engraver Fit In A Pocket | Hackaday [08:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [08:59] TR News "The last time the UK got through prime ministers this fast was the mid-1970s." https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/07/24/world-burns-and-richest-profit-it-doesnt-have-be-way | Source: Common Dreams [08:59] TR Bot Opinion | The World Burns and the Richest Profit. It Doesn't Have to Be This Way | Adam Ramsay ● Jul 25 [09:01] TR News "Multicolor printing on FDM machines can be tricky to get working flawlessly" https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/automated-hotend-swapping-for-less-wasteful-multicolor-printing/ | Source: Hackaday [09:01] TR Bot Hotend Swapping For Less Wasteful Multicolor Printing | Hackaday [09:01] TR News Inflatable actuators https://hackaday.com/2022/07/24/complex-movements-from-simple-inflatables-thanks-to-physics/ | Source: Hackaday [09:01] TR Bot Movements From Simple Inflatables, Thanks To Physics | Hackaday [09:03] TR News "Managers and executives are in the business of managing people and resources." https://opensource.com/article/22/7/secret-self-organized-teams | Source: OpenSource.com [09:03] TR Bot secret to making self-organized teams work in open source | Opensource.com [09:07] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Leaving) [09:09] TR News Links 25/07/2022: postmarketOS Considering SourceHut | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/postmarketos-considering-sourcehut/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/postmarketos-considering-sourcehut/ [09:09] TR Bot Links 25/07/2022: postmarketOS Considering SourceHut | Techrights [09:09] TR News Collabora Online and LibreOffice Writer Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167629 [09:09] TR Bot Collabora Online and LibreOffice Writer | Tux Machines [09:09] TR News Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167630 [09:09] TR Bot today's leftovers | Tux Machines [09:12] TR News "A fundamental change is coming to desktop Linux, and Silverblue might be our hint at where things are going." https://feed.jupiter.zone/allshows#entry-8630 [09:14] TR News New Asahi Linux Release Brings Support for Apple M1 Ultra and M2 CPUs http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167377#comment-34425 [09:14] TR Bot Asahi Linux adds support for Macs with M2 chips | Tux Machines [09:16] TR News ICBM: more mindless buzzwords for vendor lockin https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/digital-transformation-guiding-principles [09:16] TR Bot Digital transformation: 8 guiding principles | The Enterprisers Project [09:17] TR News ICBM selling buzzwords again https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/7/buying-edge-computing-key-roles [09:17] TR Bot Who is buying edge computing? These 6 key roles | The Enterprisers Project [09:18] TR News Ravi Saive recycles and 'publishes' (again) article... from 7 years ago! https://www.tecmint.com/monit-linux-services-monitoring/ [09:18] TR Bot Monit - A Tool for Managing and Monitoring Linux Systems [09:30] IPFS () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi [09:33] phanes https://www.abuseonline.org/database/Garrett,%20Matthew/controversial_associations/Reichwein,%20Sarah%20Michelle/2019-02-05_Todd_v_Reichwein/2019-07-29-2_Rosenfeld/ [09:33] TR Bot TAODB [09:38] matey wow [09:38] phanes yeah [09:38] matey sort of a technical question [09:39] matey you dont think this will hurt anyone who has hypothetically been defamed by bringing more attention to it? [09:39] phanes ill try to answer before my sleep meds kick in [09:39] matey im sure youve thought of this [09:39] phanes no i dont [09:40] phanes most of the time people will hide from defamation after they've been smeared, with understandable anxiety of it coming up again, but the public optics are more sharded than they believe [09:40] matey and the reason is because of the "whole picture" thread it provides? [09:40] phanes yes [09:40] matey good guess then [09:40] phanes i think in this context, if done competently would provide some level of exoneration of these people [09:40] matey a lot of the most damaging bullshit of course comes from taking things OUT of context [09:41] matey you realise i assume AT LEAST one or two of these people ARE guilty [09:41] phanes yeah i mean, my take in it is that each one of these people and their events need to be investigated just as thoroughly. if there's any merit to the claim then that needs called out. [09:41] matey i doubt they were all wrongfully defamed. on the other hand it is possible [09:41] phanes in which case re-hashing it is also appropriate [09:41] matey right [09:42] phanes nobody should be cannon fodder and nobody should get out of jail free [09:42] phanes now [09:42] phanes if someone's turned their life around [09:42] phanes maybe some kind of omission can be figured out [09:43] phanes depending on what it was [09:43] matey of course [09:46] phanes there are a couple avenues of retaliation for them [09:46] phanes i wont say what those are [09:46] phanes but i can say ive predicted them and am ready for them [09:47] matey do you know who andrew tate is [09:47] matey i dont follow british television for years now (years ago more than now) and i JUST found this guy [09:47] phanes barely, kickboxer right? [09:47] matey yeah, i guess [09:47] matey arrested / trump support / kickboxer, arrested for beating wife? [09:48] matey something something internet [09:48] phanes didnt hear about any of this [09:48] matey im just-- this is a aquick distraction from youtubeing [09:48] matey the main thing i know him from-- also today-- is when he was on ultimate traveller? [09:48] matey and i was just watching his face and OMG [09:48] matey douchebag extraordinaire [09:49] matey like they need a new word for douchebag [09:49] matey i found the news AFTER that [09:49] phanes he's a tater? [09:49] matey sorry? [09:50] phanes A tater: One who is like Tate [09:50] matey hmm [09:50] matey might work [09:50] matey this is actually tate [09:50] matey the guy is tate himself [09:50] matey but if thats the joke, then yes hes like tate too [09:50] phanes "the tater archetype" [09:51] matey someday ill tell you who he reminds me of SO MUCH [09:51] matey but not today [09:51] matey ill wait until its relevant [09:51] matey its too bad that creepy is a cliche now [09:52] matey because too many people use to mean "someone whose traits i just dont like" [09:52] matey like unfuckable... [09:52] matey because its a great word for some people who really deserve it [09:53] matey but you know, things get weaponised [09:53] matey and people go on misguided crusades [09:53] matey and people on a legit mission team up with people on bullshit etc [09:53] matey and so it goes [09:53] phanes Is this him? https://esports-news.co.uk/2022/07/24/andrew-tate-role-model-opinion/ [09:53] TR Bot Andrew Tate: Dangerous role model or an internet idol? [09:54] matey legit wars and legit missions have to be rarer, because bullshit is too easy for too many [09:54] phanes b/c i heard that guy talk for like 2 minutes before my brain was like "this guy is a bitch" [09:55] phanes massive douchebag [09:55] phanes and i dont particularly like how he treats women [09:56] mjg59_ matey: Basically all the assertions that Todd made in that filing were dismissed by the court in response to further filings [09:57] matey on what grounds [09:57] phanes excapt [09:57] phanes they weren't [09:57] phanes *except [09:57] matey ill be happy to hear you both out on this [09:57] matey i doubt ill be completely satisfied any other way [09:57] mjg59_ matey: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.340308/gov.uscourts.cand.340308.53.0.pdf covers it [09:58] matey i probably wont bother with any pdfs [09:58] matey that may seem onesided at first [09:58] phanes matey, long story short, the defense relied entirely on anti-slapp motions to avoid a contest of the material allegations of the case, and then settled out of court in exchange for publishing the statement "i was not raped by peter todd" on the same twitter account [09:58] *britney has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [09:58] mjg59_ matey: The court concluded that 3 of Todd's claims should be sticken, and that part of his 4th shoudl be stricken [09:59] matey when ao is a little more populated [09:59] matey ill be happy to see some stuff on what it may omit [09:59] matey in the meantime this is noted of course [09:59] phanes based purely on whether they survive anti-slapp process and not a material contest though [09:59] matey yeah and you dont like antislapp in this context ● Jul 25 [10:00] matey which i get [10:00] phanes at all [10:00] mjg59_ matey: It's tough to really cut it down into smaller amounts, but the rough version is that a bunch of the original claims weren't actually actionable in terms of defamation, and the assertion that he was a rapist couldn't be considered defamatory because it was based on someone asserting that he'd raped her [10:00] matey because of the lack of material contest [10:00] phanes that's pretty close to my understanding of it [10:00] matey and the assertion that he was a rapist couldn't be considered defamatory because it was based on someone asserting that he'd raped her <- i dont even know what im supposed to do with that [10:00] matey this isnt aimed at you [10:00] matey i wouldnt know what to do with that no matter who said it [10:01] mjg59_ matey: If someone tells you that they were raped by someone, and you repeat that assertion, it's not defamatory for you to do so [10:01] matey this isnt something i can process in realtime [10:01] phanes unless you orchestrated that confession using your own phones [10:01] matey matey: If someone tells you that they were raped by someone, and you repeat that assertion, it's not defamatory for you to do so <- that certainly seems straightforward enough [10:02] matey almost every time you make a straightforward assertion [10:02] matey phanes makes what seems like a good point [10:02] mjg59_ matey: And that's what happened here - someone told isis that she'd been raped by Todd, isis referenced that, the court concluded that wasn't defamation [10:02] matey and funnily enough [10:02] matey every time i think phanes has really "got you" [10:02] matey you make a point too [10:02] matey youre both good at this-- and at least one of you should be i guess [10:03] matey i may simply be unqualified to weigh these points [10:03] mjg59_ matey: phanes has read a subset of the docs (as he's previously admitted), I've read all of them [10:03] matey but for my own personal edification, ill keep trying [10:03] matey i dont believe its (usually) as simple as you make it out to be [10:03] matey but it MIGHT be [10:03] matey and either way it might be ALMOST [10:03] mjg59_ matey: I mean yeah I can't be trusted to present an unbiased opinion [10:03] matey who can? [10:04] mjg59_ matey: But I will always attempt to cite my claims here [10:04] matey you make claims that appear compelling [10:04] mjg59_ matey: And the judge's opinion isn't super complicated [10:04] matey and may be compelling, or even true [10:04] matey matey: And the judge's opinion isn't super complicated <- its easy for you, you know [10:04] matey youre already sure what happened [10:04] matey once you take that confidence away, this looks more complicated (which isnt the same as being so) [10:04] matey let me remind you [10:05] matey that i REALLY suck at math [10:05] matey and most people i know do quite well with it [10:05] mjg59_ matey: Yeah a lot of this is super into legal bullshit [10:05] matey and to me its like an alien language [10:05] mjg59_ There's a distinction between pro quod and per se defamation [10:05] matey not the legal stuff [10:05] phanes im going to take it a direction that simplifies it a bit [10:05] matey its like a weird dialect or tedious xml or a combination of the two [10:05] phanes if you look on our scope statement on TAODB it provides the room needed to do so [10:05] matey im going to take it a direction that simplifies it a bit <- that can help or hurt [10:05] mjg59_ So [10:06] matey what i think will really be interesting is when more people weigh in [10:06] mjg59_ Anti-SLAPP stuff is based on "Could what you said potentially result in someone being found guilty" [10:06] matey i recall you making this point [10:06] mjg59_ And based on Todd's claims, and the defence, most of his claims could not possibly result in a guilty outcome [10:06] matey which is fine [10:06] matey so to avoid wasting peoples time (and money) [10:06] phanes what a convenient interpretation [10:07] matey im a big fan of antislapp in a corporate context of course [10:07] matey in this sort of context i can see why phanes might hate it [10:07] matey with or without good reason [10:07] mjg59_ There was a remaining claim which was that isis asserted that Todd had assaulted them, and because the factual aspects of that were in dispute, it would have to go to actual court to conclude [10:07] matey either way really [10:07] matey what makes it simple for me [10:07] matey part of it that may not help much overall [10:08] matey is sort of a quick 2x2 truth table [10:08] phanes in any case, statements not found to be defamatory but serve the same purpose as definition are in scope at TAODB [10:08] mjg59_ But all of isis's other claims could simply not be considered defamatory in court based on the evidence that Todd presented, including that he was a rapist [10:08] matey in one. you have todd is bullshit and isis isnt [10:08] matey in the other, isis is and todd isnt [10:08] TR News The Document Foundation Blog: Community Member Monday With Juan C. Sanz Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167631 [10:08] TR Bot The Document Foundation Blog: Community Member Monday With Juan C. Sanz | Tux Machines [10:08] matey then you imagine a defamation lawsuit for each [10:08] phanes i.e. a statement made, that was not true, that caused damage. there is no legalese at TAODB [10:09] matey this is super basic [10:09] TR News 12 Open-source Free LAN Chat and Messenger Apps for Windows, Linux, macOS, and Android Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167632 [10:09] TR Bot 12 Open-source Free LAN Chat and Messenger Apps for Windows, Linux, macOS, and Android | Tux Machines [10:09] matey and if slapp CAN throw out legit complaints [10:09] matey then thats bad for not-bullshit todd [10:09] matey i mean i dont have to explain the other configurations, they explain themselves [10:09] matey its easy to see how slapp could be good OR bad UNLESS it works perfectly [10:10] mjg59_ matey: If the plaintif provides meaningful evidence that the claim was untrue, it'll get through an anti-SLAPP case [10:10] matey if it doesnt work perfectly then sooner or later someone gets the short end of the anti-slapp [10:10] mjg59_ matey: Todd simply didn't - when accused of rape he said "That's false", and provided no evidence to support his claim [10:10] matey mjg59_> matey: If the plaintif provides meaningful evidence that the claim was untrue, it'll get through an anti-SLAPP case <- it always makes sense when you put things that way [10:10] phanes "prove this negative" [10:11] phanes mjg59_, can you prove that you're not a rapist? [10:11] matey the problem is, it doesnt get me closer to figuring out which side has more credibility [10:11] matey bob saget, etc [10:11] matey when a judge weighs evidence, HOPEFULLY, there are witnesses [10:12] matey what i have here are two people making opposite claims in at least one regard [10:12] mjg59_ matey: I'm honestly not skilled enough here to argue whether or not California's anti-SLAPP statute is good law [10:12] matey i want other input [10:12] mjg59_ matey: Based on the first amendment lawyers I pay attention to, I think it is, but I can't arguie it myself [10:12] matey matey: I'm honestly not skilled enough here to argue whether or not California's anti-SLAPP statute is good law <- that makes two of us [10:12] phanes because what i see is a whole bunch of shitwads saying horrible things about people everywhere and then screaming about anti-slapp laws when confronted about it like fucking children [10:12] matey the thing is i love free speech [10:13] phanes and its the same damned people every time [10:13] matey i dont thing defamation qualifies as free speech [10:13] phanes the same circle [10:13] matey but that doesnt make it simple because [10:13] mjg59_ matey: But the law that the federal court interpreted to come to a conclusion here made it clear that most of Todd's case was without merit [10:13] matey as we said earlier, defamation-- etc etc etc etc etc [10:13] phanes and people need to be held accountable for their behaviour. freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence. [10:13] matey matey: But the law that the federal court interpreted to come to a conclusion here made it clear that most of Todd's case was without merit <- sort of a side point [10:14] mjg59_ phanes: Oh yes you are absolutely free to say anything you wish to about me, within the bounds of defamation law [10:14] matey but have you ever noticed just how many things you say lean back on authoritative arguments? WHICH IS PROBABLY WARRANTED HERE only [10:14] matey it doesnt make shit easier [10:14] matey not that it always can be easy or anything [10:14] phanes mjg59_, can you prove that you're not a rapist? [10:14] mjg59_ matey: If the argument is whether or not something is defamatory then this feels like the right metric to choose [10:14] TR News There is NO reason left to using RAR in 2022!! https://www.siliconindia.com/news/general/how-to-open-rar-files-nid-219578-cid-1.html [10:14] TR Bot to Open RAR Files | siliconindia [10:15] mjg59_ matey: There's a separate set of discussion about whether it's ok to say something that isn't defamatory [10:15] matey like i said [10:15] matey are you good at buffer overflows? they seem kind of archaic now, but have you ever used one in a security context? [10:16] mjg59_ matey: Yeah I'm happy to talk about that for myself, but in a context where someone is trying to make assertions about my partner it's tough [10:16] matey matey: Yeah I'm happy to talk about that for myself, but in a context where someone is trying to make assertions about my partner it's tough <- of course [10:16] phanes you opened this can of worms [10:16] phanes you insisted that it remain open when approached politely about it [10:16] matey did he? [10:16] phanes and then you antagonized the worms [10:16] phanes and now you're upset that the can is still open and the worms are falling out [10:17] phanes this is also a you problem [10:17] matey /me can see how that applies to other instances ofc [10:17] mjg59_ matey: I refused to adhere to a set of private demands [10:17] TR News RAR does in 1) technically inferior 2) proprietary 3) not widely-supported way what FREE (as in freedom) and widely supported Free/libre software has done for decades. Stop using RAR. If someone sends you a RAR file, explain to him/her it's not necessary. There are better ways. Show them. [10:17] phanes initially it was "hey you're saying things about me that aren't true, please take it down" and I got a full dick back in irc [10:18] phanes then he expanded on that claim by exaggerating parts of it to try to stir up activist sentiment [10:18] phanes as retaliation for truthfully accounting for it [10:18] phanes and now that we're pulling the details out it turns out you have all these other people [10:18] matey /me just reads until he can put a string of words together [10:18] phanes and later on it turns out you have all these close associations of people that are appearing to be doing the same thing [10:19] matey not counting that one [10:19] phanes so [10:19] matey or the second one or this, to be technical [10:19] phanes you tell me who instigated this [10:19] matey /me needs jerry lewis to make that cross eyed face [10:19] phanes i didn't assert this, you're just not handling well that it blew up on you because you now are seeing consequences on the horizon for your shitty collective behaviour [10:19] mjg59_ Is it the person who registered a website to do things, or is it the person's partner who has literally never spoken to that person [10:20] mjg59_ Sorry, "other person's partner" [10:20] phanes how many opportunities to de-escalate were provided to you? [10:20] TR News Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633 [10:20] TR Bot Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 | Tux Machines [10:20] mjg59_ phanes: None? [10:20] phanes mjg59_, then you're lying about that too [10:20] matey this must be how the constitution feels after scalias been busy interpreting it [10:20] TR News EM PRO mini - An AMD Ryzen Embedded R1102G fanless mini PC Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167634 [10:21] mjg59_ Everything phanes has offered me as a "get out" has been something that would require me to lie [10:21] mjg59_ Which isn't a de-escalation [10:21] TR Bot EM PRO mini - An AMD Ryzen Embedded R1102G fanless mini PC | Tux Machines [10:21] phanes that.. that right there. this is why you're going to keep losing. [10:21] matey neither of you are terribly interested in "de-escalating" and im not sure i blame either of you for that in this instance [10:21] mjg59_ phanes: Yeah I love you too keep finding excuses to talk to me [10:21] TR News The Read Only Scenario | LINUX Unplugged 468 https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/149347/the-read-only-scenario-linux-unplugged-468/ [10:21] TR Bot The Read Only Scenario | LINUX Unplugged 468 | Jupiter Broadcasting [10:22] mjg59_ matey: Heh I mean if he just dropped all of this I wouldn't say anything more [10:22] TR News An Overview of the Linux Operating System for Beginners Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167635 [10:22] TR Bot An Overview of the Linux Operating System for Beginners | Tux Machines [10:22] matey thats plausible, stallmans dead [10:22] mjg59_ matey: But yeah I'm not going to say that he's not a dick [10:22] phanes mjg59_, https://paste.silogroup.org/ekujudanor.erl [10:22] TR Bot hastebin [10:23] phanes mjg59_, did I fabricate that conversation? [10:23] phanes or are you lying right now? [10:23] mjg59_ phanes: You promised that you'd send me a certified letter and you never did [10:23] matey /me is just glad phanes didnt turn out to be another white supremacist [10:24] TR News Microsoft GitHub Expos Part XXV will be published "soon". If we go at a one-per-week pace, it'll carry on another year (50+ parts). [10:24] phanes see how he distracted from the lie? [10:24] phanes he knows [10:24] matey im past the point where i can notice every distraction :) [10:24] mjg59_ phanes: I said I'd make it clear I didn't accuse you of doing anything illegal if you wanted, and you refused to take me up on that [10:25] matey even when the internet was still allowed to be crazy, it wasnt this crazy [10:25] phanes mjg59_, nah, that's just what you said on my behalf. [10:25] matey /me is referring to the past few years as a whole [10:25] phanes You have a tendency to do that to people I've noticed. [10:26] TR News Any project that leaves GitHub for something else is a little triumph for software freedom. If self-hosted Git, great! Sadly, Git is getting harder over time (setup). Many Git developers aren't interested in making is simple; it's just some "open core" for proprietary crap like GitHub and GitLab (salary givers). I want to see what comes AFTER Git. [10:26] phanes Was expanding on that lie on july a de-escalation effort, or was that not a conscious decision to escalate? [10:26] phanes No sympathy for you man. We tried nice. That doesn't work with you. [10:26] mjg59_ "We"? [10:26] mjg59_ Who is "We"? [10:27] TR News "Web-based" is the next "Flash". One day many people will realise it mostly sucks and abandon it for something more secure, lighter, less dependent on Internet connectivity and server side setup, fees etc. [10:27] phanes It's not central to the point. [10:27] mjg59_ But hey like I said, if you think I broke the law then I can give you my lawyer's address [10:27] mjg59_ And if you don't, do whatever [10:27] phanes Look if you're not literate enough to track pronouns then maybe you shouldn't wine about them so much. [10:28] phanes This is about ethical disposition and moral compass at this point. [10:28] mjg59_ phanes: Previously you used "I" to refer to yourself [10:28] phanes It's not something I'm terribly movable on. [10:28] mjg59_ phanes: If you're plural then I apologise, I'll use appropriate pronouns in future [10:28] phanes I was early on before alot of this came out. [10:28] phanes Movable on thsi* [10:28] matey christ [10:29] phanes but now after seeing all this I don't think we have much room for compromise [10:29] mjg59_ phanes: What are your pronouns? [10:30] phanes To reiterate: No sympathy for you man. We tried nice. That doesn't work with you. [10:30] mjg59_ phanes: What are your pronouns? [10:30] TR News Defeatists of the world, calm down. The neo-fascists aren't winning. More than 80% of the globe does not do "Smart" things and more than 90% uses cash all the time. It's easy to judge the future ahead based on those who surround us (in our vicinity). Many will put up resistance, not for being Luddites but for being rational, practical. We're still the "digital majority". [10:31] phanes goin to bed yall, take care matey [10:31] matey its probably my imagination, but britney seems like the nicest person ive met in here [10:31] matey night phanes [10:31] mjg59_ matey: Britney does seem like a good person [10:33] schestowitz[TR2] britney has been on and off with us since pre 2010 [10:33] matey so shes said [10:33] schestowitz[TR2] before all that david ike bs [10:34] matey nobodys perfect i guess [10:35] schestowitz[TR2] at least it doesn't come up much anyore [10:35] schestowitz[TR2] it can easily be used to discredit everyone here [10:35] TR News As many journalists come under attack, TRF launches a free tool to monitor online abuse | Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism https://reutersinstitute.politics.ox.ac.uk/news/many-journalists-come-under-attack-trf-launches-free-tool-monitor-online-abuse [10:35] TR Bot As many journalists come under attack, TRF launches a free tool to monitor online abuse | Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism [10:35] matey cool about the moon though [10:36] schestowitz[TR2] what's amusing is that mjg tires to paint us all as an anti-trans thing, when in fact for many years we were always about 5% trans, sometimes highere [10:36] schestowitz[TR2] *higher [10:36] TR News Experts Blast Meta Human Rights Report as 'Propaganda' https://gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-first-human-rights-report-myanmar-india-1849197485 Source: gizmodo | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//gizmodo.com/facebook-meta-first-human-rights-report-myanmar-india-1849197485 [10:36] TR Bot Experts Blast Meta Human Rights Report as 'Propaganda' [10:36] matey what's amusing is that mjg tires to paint us all as an anti-trans thing <- i think its more accurate to say that he butts heads with any individual he perceives as being transphobic [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] he shoudl take on isis [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] isis slaughters people for much less [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] infiudeals [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] gays [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] *infidels [10:37] matey he shoudl take on isis <- if this is pun not intended, you have pun not intended disease [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] but I assume his finance chose the name before isil/isis hijacked the acronym [10:37] schestowitz[TR2] *fiance [10:38] matey it was an egyptian name before it was a terrorist group [10:38] schestowitz[TR2] yeah [10:38] schestowitz[TR2] some businesses here was called Isis [10:38] schestowitz[TR2] so their ads become transge [10:38] schestowitz[TR2] *strange [10:38] matey and the name of a goddess-- which is why its REALLY WEIRD to have an ISLAMic (monotheist) terrorist group called that [10:38] schestowitz[TR2] like the marketing slogan [10:38] matey but its an acronym right? [10:39] TR News Koodo is an All-in-one Open Source eBook Reader for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167636 [10:39] TR Bot Koodo is an All-in-one Open Source eBook Reader for Linux | Tux Machines [10:39] schestowitz[TR2] matey: nobody reads it as an acronym [10:39] matey "you guys named yourselves after an egyptian goddess?" [10:39] schestowitz[TR2] because of the vowels [10:39] schestowitz[TR2] unlike YMCA [10:40] matey "no, that was achmed, we constantly give him shit for it" [10:40] schestowitz[TR2] "i kill ya!"| [10:40] schestowitz[TR2] matey: I have new examples of github beingf rejected [10:40] schestowitz[TR2] it's like skype circa 2016 [10:40] matey if ymca was a terrorist group, they would round people up and make them play sports with automatic weapons aimed at them [10:40] matey "PLAY, PLAY PLAY!" [10:40] matey "but..." [10:41] matey BANG! [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] give it another half a decade, maybe github will be 20% of new projects [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] or less [10:41] matey "I SAID PLAY NOW!" [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] microsoft keeps the cards close to its chest [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] read: hides it [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] like vista 11 usage number [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] that ALWAYS means it's not goo [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] because they lose to boast and exaggerate [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] so I assure you they have reasons for concern there [10:41] schestowitz[TR2] CEO removed [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] I posted in another channel the gravevine stuff [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] why he was thrown under the buss [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] miguel also... still studying material from a legla case [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] Microsoft is not ina good shape, BUT IT IS FIGHTING LIKE HELL [10:42] matey if ymca was a terrorist group, steve ballmer could be the youth coach [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] some people thought one day Microsoft will just gfo, [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] "well, ok, Linux won" [10:42] schestowitz[TR2] and lie down [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] but Windows is sttill out there [10:43] matey i think that was esr [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] not they put up the bolts on laptops [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] "secure" boot [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] they are fighting [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] and they try to capture all our orgs [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] decapitation strategy [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] SPI paid by Microsoft [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] hired lawyers [10:43] matey if ymca was a terrorist group, you think esrs militia would kill them? [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] attacks people who criticise Microsoft [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] btw, Arch is also connected to SPI [10:43] matey and they try to capture all our orgs <- seems to be working [10:43] schestowitz[TR2] so similar problems over the horizon [10:44] matey btw, Arch is also connected to SPI <- GROSS [10:44] schestowitz[TR2] matey: it is esr's "OBLIGATION" [10:44] schestowitz[TR2] apropois: [10:44] *schestowitz[TR2] finds link [10:44] matey obladi, obliga, mote it be, YAAAAA [10:44] matey YAYA crazy esr [10:44] matey ive seen it [10:44] schestowitz[TR2] Nearly one in three Americans say it may soon be necessary to take up arms against the government | The Hill https://thehill.com/homenews/3572278-nearly-one-in-three-americans-say-it-may-soon-be-necessary-to-take-up-arms-against-the-government/ Source: thehill [10:44] TR Bot Nearly one in three Americans say it may soon be necessary to take up arms against the government | The Hill [10:45] matey im all for a well-organised militia, but are the viking hats mandatory? [10:46] matey hey roy do you know andrew tate? not like personally [10:46] schestowitz[TR2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate [10:46] TR Bot Andrew Tate - Wikipedia [10:47] schestowitz[TR2] only "now"... [10:48] schestowitz[TR2] I thought it would be some sugar tycoon/heir [10:49] matey may be i never heard of him before today [10:49] matey i guess hes been arrested [10:51] matey "ive never exploited anyone in my life"-- andrew tate as a man in the prime of his career [10:52] matey "im going to manipulate them all"-- andrew tate in a reality show with a $10,000 prize [10:52] matey "use them as weapons" [10:52] schestowitz[TR2] he seems to be tied with luton [10:52] matey reality tv is REALLY terrible [10:52] schestowitz[TR2] when you say luton in the UK these days peoole get ideas [10:52] matey i wont judge luton for their misfortune [10:53] matey i guess everyone else does [10:53] matey i still associate luton with morcambe and wise, but im sure thats out of date [10:53] matey morcambe is dead and i have no idea what the status of ernie wise is [10:53] schestowitz[TR2] now it's infested with two sides of the religious wars [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] eds et al [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] edl [10:54] matey yay [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] openbytes' tim used to live there [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] it's known for racists and airport [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] lol racist aipor.. maybe [10:54] matey is the airport racist? [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] no [10:54] schestowitz[TR2] not that I saw [10:54] matey they probably all are [10:55] matey most of the planes are white [10:55] schestowitz[TR2] but I was there several times and I remember when they confisicstacated an ol' ladies water plastic bobble wiuth just ice in it [10:55] schestowitz[TR2] she could not save her new fashionable bottle [10:55] schestowitz[TR2] as she could not melt the ice [10:55] schestowitz[TR2] solid [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] maybe they thought it was "anti-freeze" ^_^ [10:56] matey why did they confiscate it [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] obviously she was gonna bomb the place [10:56] matey auntie freeze [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] with her icy beverage plastic bottle [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] if it was water, she could empty it and keep the bottle [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] she was next to me [10:56] matey after batman returns you just cant be too careful [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] and they didn't say much [10:56] schestowitz[TR2] just took it away like a bunch of zombies [10:57] schestowitz[TR2] probably stole it later (the staff) [10:57] schestowitz[TR2] "that's a nice bottle you got there, it'd be a shame..."; [10:57] matey like taking a bottle from an old lady [10:57] schestowitz[TR2] bottle of ice [10:57] schestowitz[TR2] solid [10:57] schestowitz[TR2] obv. a bomkb [10:57] schestowitz[TR2] and later they wonder why people like me won't fly [10:57] matey that was just cold [10:58] schestowitz[TR2] cold as ice [10:58] matey ive seen it before it happens all the time [10:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [10:59] schestowitz[TR2] luton is where many of the "budget" 'air' 'lines' go [10:59] schestowitz[TR2] to save money [10:59] schestowitz[TR2] and then have tourists go another 40 mins by train/bus [10:59] matey runway is always clear because who the fuck wants to go to luton anyway ● Jul 25 [11:00] matey "yalriiiiight?" [11:00] schestowitz[TR2] budget travelklers [11:00] schestowitz[TR2] we used to have gatwick as a client [11:00] schestowitz[TR2] deployed some free sofwtare for them [11:00] schestowitz[TR2] on panels and such [11:00] schestowitz[TR2] because we sucked [11:00] matey i heard [11:00] schestowitz[TR2] and lost many of the talented staff [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] *before [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] now we suck [11:01] matey open suck [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] we're like mozilla in 2 years [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] we were mozilla before the pandemic [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] now we're mozilla++ [11:01] matey does the ceo get paid like that? i bet not [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] haha, no [11:01] schestowitz[TR2] he took paycut, he said [11:02] matey im sure he wouldnt mind, he could buy the company and-- i dunno [11:02] matey probably about ready to retire anyway [11:02] schestowitz[TR2] I will leave "soon" [11:02] matey one of the best words in tech [11:02] matey and the worst [11:03] schestowitz[TR2] hence quotes [11:03] schestowitz[TR2] I cannot say when [11:03] matey that one always has quotes [11:03] schestowitz[TR2] negotiating money [11:04] schestowitz[TR2] 11.5 years is a lot in accrued capital [11:04] mjg59_ schestowitz[TR2]: I feel like "not as bad as ISIS" is not the standard we should hold our communities to [11:05] *schestowitz[TR2] wastes no time arguing over this anymore [11:05] schestowitz[TR2] matey: I did some online calculator thing [11:05] mjg59_ If ISIS thought software patents were bad, I'd still criticise them [11:05] schestowitz[TR2] I might be entitled to 17k [11:06] schestowitz[TR2] almost's a year's salary [11:06] TR News Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167637 [11:06] TR Bot today's howtos | Tux Machines [11:06] mjg59_ schestowitz[TR2]: When did you last criticise a transphobic group? [11:08] matey almost's a year's salary <- wild [11:09] matey schestowitz[TR2]: When did you last criticise a transphobic group? <- in the vaguest terms he probably does so often [11:09] matey if only inadvertently [11:11] matey /me can think of two trans individuals who are probably the best people to try to hold roy to his trans-supportive obligations [11:12] matey unless theyve tried and failed [11:12] TR News Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633#comment-34426 [11:12] TR Bot Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 | Tux Machines [11:13] TR News SUSE is not about GNU/Linux anymore https://www.suse.com/c/navigating-the-rapidly-evolving-world-of-retail/ [11:13] TR Bot the rapidly evolving world of retail | SUSE Communities [11:14] matey make it three, but i think the other two are more fair [11:14] matey (to them, i mean) [11:14] TR News riscv: enable Docker requirements in defconfig https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/riscv/linux.git/commit/?h=for-next&id=ba6cfef057e1c594c456627aad81c2343fdb5d13 [11:14] TR Bot kernel/git/riscv/linux.git - RISC-V Linux kernel tree [11:16] schestowitz[TR2] matey: they should ask Torvalds [11:16] schestowitz[TR2] not that he would answer [11:16] schestowitz[TR2] would say he's busy, go to another room [11:16] schestowitz[TR2] when it comes to EPO [11:16] schestowitz[TR2] we had a very awesome transactivist helping us [11:17] schestowitz[TR2] making caricatures and making full article translations from dutch [11:17] schestowitz[TR2] one day I mistakenly conflated identity and gander [11:17] schestowitz[TR2] and she flipped out over it [11:17] schestowitz[TR2] *gender [11:17] schestowitz[TR2] I didn't even understand what I had done [11:17] TR News DebConf22 closes in Prizren and DebConf23 dates announced Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167638 [11:17] TR Bot DebConf22 closes in Prizren and DebConf23 dates announced | Tux Machines [11:18] TR News Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Oracle Business Intelligence Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167639 [11:18] TR Bot Best Free and Open Source Alternatives to Oracle Business Intelligence | Tux Machines [11:18] TR News Compact3566 - A Rockchip RK3566 SBC that closely follows Raspberry Pi 3 form factor Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167640 [11:18] TR Bot Compact3566 - A Rockchip RK3566 SBC that closely follows Raspberry Pi 3 form factor | Tux Machines [11:19] matey some people on the left are extremely sensitive about honest mistakes [11:19] matey some have good reason to be. others are jerks [11:19] schestowitz[TR2] hypersensitive in this case [11:19] schestowitz[TR2] blocked me right away [11:19] matey the right portrays itself as thick skinned. we all know this is bullshit [11:19] schestowitz[TR2] no chance to explain to me the difference, around 2015 that was [11:19] schestowitz[TR2] lesser awareness back then [11:20] matey stress and trauma are two things i think you dont understand really well [11:20] matey but then thats not uncommon [11:21] matey im not saying you havent experienced stress and trauma [11:21] matey ive certainly experienced some things i dont really much understand [11:21] matey like im not a biologist, so any time ive been sick, my understanding of it has limits [11:22] *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [11:22] mjg59_ schestowitz[TR2]: People who've had to deal with a lot of shit in the physical world are usually not tolerant of dealing with the same in the virtual world [11:23] mjg59_ schestowitz[TR2]: They can just choose to be in online places where they don't deal with it instead [11:23] *techuser (~techuser@6nvxnbfs9k26u.irc) has joined #techrights [11:23] matey at least until those online places get taken over by people who say they have no right to be there :) [11:23] mjg59_ schestowitz[TR2]: If people don't have a belief that you're someone they can trust to have a decent conversation on the topic with then the easy thing is to just peace out [11:25] matey i think roys complaint that he wasnt given a chance is plausible [11:26] matey i think the guess that such a conversation would be frustrating (to the point of being pointless) is possible [11:26] mjg59_ matey: I agree, but my guess would be it's based on history not just a single incident. I might well be wrong. [11:26] TR News just received by post: we'll give you 5 pounds to participate in survey (online). But MANDATES "QR code"... so I guess the survey will exclude people like us who don't use mobile "phone". How NOT to conduct surveys. [11:26] matey this is a community where youd have to be obtuse just to stay here for a few days [11:28] schestowitz[TR2] online escapism is a huge problem in kids [11:28] schestowitz[TR2] some aree incapable of interacting with people facer to face [11:28] schestowitz[TR2] those born just before covid-19 will have cues deficit [11:28] matey that isnt entirely new [11:28] schestowitz[TR2] until an older age [11:29] schestowitz[TR2] I heard of people who use "self-service" because they are anxious about facing a real person [11:29] schestowitz[TR2] esp. a streranger [11:29] matey https://luxai.com/robot-for-teaching-children-with-autism-at-home/ [11:30] TR Bot QTrobot, Educational robot for at home education of children with autism [11:30] schestowitz[TR2] meanwhile, biden fist-bumpsd a murderer [11:30] schestowitz[TR2] putin did a high-five with him just months after jamal's "culling" [11:30] schestowitz[TR2] so oiligarchs and oligarchs (overlap exists) don't value life [11:30] schestowitz[TR2] we see it here in covid-19 policies [11:31] schestowitz[TR2] football resumes next week, packed stadiums [11:31] matey I heard of people who use "self-service" because they are anxious about facing a real person <- the amount of othering you do, and the sheer number of traits you decide to other [11:31] matey im sure you have no idea how staggering it is [11:31] schestowitz[TR2] the staff is usually forced to be polite [11:31] matey but the only thing not "normal" about this stuff is the rate [11:31] schestowitz[TR2] happiness is not optional [11:32] matey happiness is not optional <- thats bad management [11:32] schestowitz[TR2] matey: I didn't see surveys across time lapses [11:32] matey im curious-- and im curious because i DONT think it comes from the "top" [11:32] schestowitz[TR2] but I was sold those by apologists of self-checkout [11:32] schestowitz[TR2] and those machines did not exist before but were totally feasible to make [11:32] matey matey: I didn't see surveys across time lapses <- this would not require your formal training in statistics [11:32] matey im curious-- and im curious because i DONT think it comes from the "top" [11:33] matey where the bad management comes from [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] it's hard to judge and compare [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] as things changed [11:33] matey if its the ceo i dont expect you to say [11:33] matey but i actually assume its NOT the ceo [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] when I was a kid, if another kid screamed, it would peiece my ears [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] that does not happen anymore [11:33] matey thats why its a small mystery [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] as mny hearing range and amplitutes aren;'t ther same [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] and same for how I perceive people's shyness [11:33] schestowitz[TR2] so comparing studies across generations is a hard problem [11:34] schestowitz[TR2] because of perspective, scopes [11:34] matey society evolves [11:34] matey or if you prefer, all men are devo [11:34] schestowitz[TR2] also, as kids, it was common to let uis walk on our own in the streets [11:34] matey yeah [11:34] schestowitz[TR2] I am quite sure oit objective got worse since tthen [11:34] schestowitz[TR2] *objectively [11:34] schestowitz[TR2] and can be measured, too [11:34] schestowitz[TR2] now there are laws that can impact parents [11:34] matey helicopter parenting is bad for society yes [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] ranging from fines to loss of custody or "training" [11:35] matey whether in its literal form (with actual heli-- kidding) whether literally with parents [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] in trick and treat we don't get kids anymore [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] now it's parents [11:35] matey or figuratively with all this spy on your kid tech [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] and a bunch of kids with them [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] speaking for them [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] to "protect" them [11:35] matey fucking movies and sensationalist [11:35] schestowitz[TR2] i mean, it's not like people here open the doors wearing robes and varnishing candy [11:36] matey the kids would be safe if esr armed them all and took them to the range [11:37] matey i do think a well-armed populace is a good idea. im sure there are sane people who can assess how to teach kids about guns, but that counts out esr [11:37] schestowitz[TR2] militia fatacists [11:37] schestowitz[TR2] if you ask them to be less armed, then they make the excuses [11:37] schestowitz[TR2] like, NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE are armed [11:37] schestowitz[TR2] *fanatics/fantasists [11:38] matey im sure youre familiar with the concept of a therapeutic dose [11:38] matey it can be lower or higher than therapeutic [11:38] schestowitz[TR2] esr is gone btw [11:38] schestowitz[TR2] he stopped blogging [11:39] matey though im not sure if you can have too many guns if theyre distributed well enough and people are responsible with them [11:39] matey you keep saying that [11:39] schestowitz[TR2] rms was not happy about how esr had been trated [11:39] schestowitz[TR2] but that was after they did the same to rms [11:39] matey rms doesnt really seem to know whats going on [11:39] schestowitz[TR2] so maybe on some level there was solidarity. #metoo #cancelculture [11:39] matey id just assume hes being lied to regularly [11:39] matey like the king in the two towers [11:40] schestowitz[TR2] for the planet, morew guns are good [11:40] matey i dont think #metoo is used that way [11:40] schestowitz[TR2] for the planet [11:40] schestowitz[TR2] it's humans lowering their numbers [11:40] matey the planet will manage. its the humans who need to get their shit together [11:40] schestowitz[TR2] i THINK NUCLEAR CONFLICT IS ALSO LESS VALUABLE WITH GUERILLA WARFARE (RIFLES) [11:40] schestowitz[TR2] sorry, caps [11:40] matey its funny when you do that [11:41] schestowitz[TR2] you can see the small i [11:41] schestowitz[TR2] I am eating [11:41] schestowitz[TR2] rianne made rice pudding [11:41] matey good stuff [11:41] schestowitz[TR2] she goes to yorkshire tomorrow, leaving me on my own for 3 days [11:41] matey if theres enough pudding that will keep you going for a few days [11:42] schestowitz[TR2] freezer is full [11:42] matey nice [11:44] matey have you seen phanes website [11:44] schestowitz[TR2] no [11:44] schestowitz[TR2] I keep distance [11:44] matey hes so meticulous about the data [11:44] matey its like a zen rock garden [11:44] schestowitz[TR2] tbh, I don't like his methods [11:44] schestowitz[TR2] and he harmed freenode [11:45] schestowitz[TR2] said a freenode nda is due to expire next year [11:45] schestowitz[TR2] so we may know what exactly happened in 20221 [11:45] matey he and ariadne are frenemies? enemies? [11:45] matey former associates [11:46] schestowitz[TR2] "if that your "sword of truth" or are you just excited to see me?" [11:46] matey ill-wanted aquaintances [11:46] TR News [PATCH 0/5] drm/vkms: Add ConfigFS Support - Jim Shargo https://lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/20220722215001.1380608-1-jshargo@chromium.org/ Source: chromium | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/dri-devel/20220722215001.1380608-1-jshargo@chromium.org/ [11:46] TR Bot [PATCH 0/5] drm/vkms: Add ConfigFS Support - Jim Shargo [11:46] matey he enjoys a bit of theatrics [11:46] TR News MediaTek buddies with back doors company that makes defective chips. Taking note... https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-july-2022-announce.html [11:46] TR Bot and MediaTek Form Foundry Partnership [11:46] matey quite modestly, compared to esr [11:47] matey then again, maybe i just havent known him long enough (or at all) [11:48] matey tbh, I don't like his methods <- i realise your protest may extend beyond this example but [11:48] TR News Intel and Microsoft love to "sponsor" (read: buy, corrupt, infiltrate) CS labs. Seen it all before. Do not go study in a university that "partners" with those malicious companies. You don't learn, you're being preached to (corporate religion). [11:48] matey you seem to be against ANY serious confrontation with the coup [11:49] matey that would certainly include what hes doing [11:49] TR News [PATCH 0/9] Samsung Trinity NPU device driver - Jiho Chu https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725065308.2457024-1-jiho.chu@samsung.com/ Source: samsung | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725065308.2457024-1-jiho.chu@samsung.com/ [11:49] TR Bot [PATCH 0/9] Samsung Trinity NPU device driver - Jiho Chu [11:49] TR News Does DARPA/DoD "approve" Chinese patches in Linux? [PATCH 0/4] faster kexec reboot - Albert Huang https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725083904.56552-1-huangjie.albert@bytedance.com/ Source: bytedance | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220725083904.56552-1-huangjie.albert@bytedance.com/ [11:49] TR Bot [PATCH 0/4] faster kexec reboot - Albert Huang [11:50] schestowitz[TR2] then again, maybe i just havent known him long enough (or at all) [11:50] schestowitz[TR2] http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/freenode-takes-control-of-fsf-channel.txt [11:51] TR News Ewww.. DRM on GNU/Linux https://trendoceans.com/watch-netflix-linux/ [11:51] TR Bot Watching Netflix on Linux with Chrome/Firefox - TREND OCEANS [11:52] matey @bagira And not in any way related to me falling off a uhaul and landing on my knee a few weeks later. [11:52] matey and landing on my knee [11:52] matey a few weeks later. [11:52] matey where the fuck was he parked [11:53] TR News Software freedom isn't a battle that can be won, only forever fought. Those who oppose it do so for ideological reasons (they want total power), going back to the beginning of "time" (human civilisation). So the process of fending off, fighting back is what's important. Every little helps. [11:56] psydruid > [notice] Intel and MediaTek Form Foundry Partnership [11:56] psydruid This is not actually a bad thing, as this will allow Intel to go back to its roots as a semiconductor fabrication company [11:56] psydruid There should be many more of those from more companies, so chips can be manufactured based on the best conditions for the chip designer [11:56] psydruid So far there are TSMC, Samsung, Intel, GlobalFoundries, SMIC, ST, Bosch and a number of smaller ones [11:56] matey im too tired to process 8,000 lines of text i already looked at (almost certainly) last year [11:59] schestowitz[TR2] there is am key portion [11:59] schestowitz[TR2] where banning starts [11:59] matey i dont doubt it [11:59] schestowitz[TR2] http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/fsf-channel-canceled.txt [11:59] schestowitz[TR2] shorter ● Jul 25 [12:00] matey i probably wouldnt like him as an ircop [12:00] schestowitz[TR2] irkkkop [12:00] TR News Links 25/07/2022: Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022, DebConf23 Dates Announced | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/berlin-mini-guadec-2022/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/berlin-mini-guadec-2022/ [12:00] TR Bot Links 25/07/2022: Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022, DebConf23 Dates Announced | Techrights [12:00] TR News Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167641 [12:00] TR Bot today's leftovers | Tux Machines [12:01] schestowitz[TR2] here, MinceR is the cop [12:01] schestowitz[TR2] if orban entered [12:01] schestowitz[TR2] instant or-BAN [12:03] TR News Nonsensical, worthless gimmicks to melt greenwashing yuppies https://spectrum.ieee.org/mobile-ev-charging-robot [12:03] TR Bot This Car Charger Bot Will Also Hold Your Spot - IEEE Spectrum [12:03] matey if he murdered orban on sight i wouldnt be too shocked about it [12:04] matey maybe we could give him a medal [12:04] TR News HEY HI (AI).... it's everywhere, it's omnipotent, omnipresent... HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HE HEY HEY.. show some respect to the HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI HEY HI https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-ai-still-doesnt-know-how-to-do-11657891316 [12:04] TR Bot AI Still Doesnt Know How to Do - WSJ [12:04] matey as for phanes [12:04] matey and a bunch of other people [12:04] matey freenode was fucked for some time [12:05] matey joe rogan talked about what it does to you [12:05] matey to be in charge of security at a concert even [12:05] matey maybe having ops on too large a network for too long [12:05] matey makes a lot of people feel like a great flood isnt such a bad idea [12:05] TR News Cargo cults spreading with hype https://news.yale.edu/2022/06/29/blockchain-not-just-bitcoin-it-can-secure-and-store-genomes-too [12:05] TR Bot Blockchain not just for bitcoin: It can secure and store genomes, too | YaleNews [12:05] matey cleanse the earth again [12:06] matey its not a great idea [12:06] matey but it happens? [12:06] schestowitz[TR2] after we die :-) [12:06] schestowitz[TR2] obviously [12:06] matey that would be the whole point, yes [12:06] matey and this is about freednode [12:06] schestowitz[TR2] we'll never live to see it [12:06] schestowitz[TR2] but [12:06] schestowitz[TR2] one person might temporarily see it [12:07] schestowitz[TR2] the binary switch [12:07] schestowitz[TR2] on the death bed [12:07] schestowitz[TR2] "annnnnd... i'm GONE" [12:07] schestowitz[TR2] technicallyu we don't know the name of the last dinosaur to live [12:07] schestowitz[TR2] some bird look like dinosaurs to me [12:07] matey philip [12:07] schestowitz[TR2] *birds [12:07] matey chickens are small dinosaurs [12:08] matey so is pelosi [12:09] TR News "Being anonymous on the internet isn't impossible, but it sure as hell isn't easy either. You have a name, a face, and email address, a phone number... these things, and more, are being asked of us all the time to prove our legitimacy on countless websites." http://flower.codes/2022/07/22/anonymity-pseudonymity.html [12:09] TR Bot ( status 308 @ http://flower.codes/2022/07/22/anonymity-pseudonymity.html ) [12:10] TR News Brain-computer interface (BCI) startup Synchron implanted a wire-electrode combination in the brain of a U.S. patient with amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, attempting to enable the patient to perform thought-powered Web surfing, email, and texting. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-18/brain-computer-interface-company-implants-new-type-of-device [12:10] TR Bot - Are you a robot? [12:12] TR News Webspam again. Catalogues disguised as "reviews" or "comparisons" (spammy links). The WWW is dead, it just doesn't know it yet. Spam/noise to signal ratio is awful. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-laptops/ [12:12] TR Bot The 9 Best Laptops for 2022 | Reviews by Wirecutter [12:14] TR News Microsoft (NSA) lying: "The gist of Microsofts 2010 Windows Phone campaign was the sameeveryone devotes too much attention to their phones and Microsoft has hit upon a solution." The solution is not to have one! https://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/10/11/wp7-ad [12:14] TR Bot Daring Fireball: First Windows Phone 7 Ad From Microsoft [12:15] TR News Imagine wasting your time on bullshit like this... https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/splash-screen-in-android/ [12:15] TR Bot Splash Screen in Android - GeeksforGeeks [12:16] TR News "Gates panicked, lied to Brainerd"... is Brainerd dead yet? https://liam-on-linux.dreamwidth.org/84930.html [12:16] TR Bot liam_on_linux | Why MS Word jumped from version 2 to version 6 [12:17] TR News The Bill Gates lesson: BRIBE the media and it'll idolise it DESPITE your role enabling a child sex smuggling ring [12:19] TR News Even Warren B, Bill's BFF, found Gates role in enabling Jeffrey Epstein, his other BFF, too much to swallow. And he's in his 80s, his not an 8 year old... [12:20] TR News WARNING: Dont Toast your Steam Deck (plus other Deck news) - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=m0H3Yte_BDs | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/m0H3Yte_BDs [12:20] TR Bot WARNING: Don't Toast your Steam Deck (plus other Deck news) - Invidious [12:20] TR News "In the thirty-sixth episode of the WordPress Briefing, Josepha Haden Chomphosy revisits the Beginners Guide to Contributions to the WordPress open source project." https://wordpress.org/news/2022/07/episode-36-beginners-guide-to-contributions-2-0/ [12:20] TR Bot Episode 36: Beginners Guide to Contributions 2.0 WordPress News [12:21] TR News BT does not belong on earpieces. It's a waste of circuitry https://www.addictivetips.com/apple-2/how-to-change-the-name-of-your-airpods/ [12:21] TR Bot ( status 403 @ https://www.addictivetips.com/apple-2/how-to-change-the-name-of-your-airpods/ ) [12:22] TR News "Look ma! No cords/wires" is the nea sneakers with lights in 'em... totally impractical, overrated. The power of marketing. [12:24] TR News We should remind people that using wireless devices where wired works perfectly well is BAD FOR THE PLANET. E.g. "wireless" mice... that might generate a big pile of chemical batteries in their lifetime. [12:28] TR News Brazil commits genocide against the rainforests and pollutes rivers, says the hypocritical yuppie on a jumbo aircraft, running a laptop on batteries while flying from one country which completely deforested itself to another country which completely deforested itself. [12:29] TR News CPU-X The Best Linux Alternative Of CPU-Z Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167642 [12:29] TR Bot CPU-X The Best Linux Alternative Of CPU-Z | Tux Machines [12:30] IPFS () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi [12:33] TR News Average number of incoming links in Geminispace peaked weeks ago gemini://botond.online/en/stats/ [12:41] *psydroid2 (~psydroid@memzbmehf99re.irc) has joined #techrights [12:43] TR News E44: Open Source Auth-as-a-Service by Aserto https://anchor.fm/ossstartuppodcast/episodes/E44-Open-Source-Auth-as-a-Service-by-Aserto-e1lh3od "-as-a-Service" typically means as a serf, not software freedom, even if the server side is FS-based [12:43] TR Bot E44: Open Source Auth-as-a-Service by Aserto by Open Source Startup Podcast [12:44] TR News "Hello everyone. This is a brief update on the Ham project - a drop in replacement for the Jam build system. For those more curious about the technical details, there will be a larger blog post on Hams action modifier implementation coming soon." https://www.haiku-os.org/blog/dominicm/2022-07-21_gsoc_2022_ham_status_update/ [12:44] TR Bot [GSoC 2022] Ham: Status Update | Haiku Project [12:47] TR News Clickfraud spamnil is now doping on the fraud. Take my word for it: just a matter of time before Gulag suspends his YouTube channel. How does James Zemlin (and Sheela Microsoft) justify such practices? http://techrights.org/2022/06/08/lf-defrauding-clients/ [12:47] TR Bot New Lows: Linux Foundation Defrauding Clients | Techrights [12:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [13:00] TR News UK Not Testing Enough for COVID-19 (More Than 1 in 10 Now Test Positive, But Testing Rates at New Lows) https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/25/not-enough-tests/ [13:00] TR Bot Blog Archive UK Not Testing Enough for COVID-19 (More Than 1 in 10 Now Test Positive, But Testing Rates at New Lows) [13:01] TR News Brexitnaro Johnson killed our economy [13:01] TR News [13:02] TR News On GNOME advocacy Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167643 [13:02] TR Bot On GNOME advocacy | Tux Machines [13:12] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [13:13] *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [13:17] psydroid2 https://pine64eu.com/product/14-inch-pinebook-pro-linux-laptop-ansi-us-keyboard/ [13:17] TR Bot 14 PINEBOOK Pro LINUX LAPTOP - PINE64 EU [13:18] psydroid2 you get 2 years of warranty but it's out of stock [13:18] psydroid2 hopefully they'll start working on a new one with a better SoC [13:33] TR News [Meme] The EPOs Great Leap Forward | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/ [13:33] TR Bot [Meme] The EPOs Great Leap Forward | Techrights [13:33] matey you get 2 years of warranty but it's out of stock [13:33] matey sweet [13:33] matey hopefully they'll start working on a new one with a better SoC <- yeah [13:34] matey technicallyu we don't know the name of the last dinosaur to live <- nessie! [13:34] schestowitz[TR2] as if.. [13:34] matey or bessie [13:34] matey or tessie [13:34] schestowitz[TR2] she mated with a small dino [13:34] schestowitz[TR2] a rooster [13:49] TR News [Meme] The EPOs Unprecedented Surge | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/ [13:49] TR Bot [Meme] The EPOs Unprecedented Surge | Techrights [13:55] TR News HP Dev One Linux Laptop Review: The Best for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167644 [13:55] TR Bot HP Dev One Linux Laptop Review: The Best for Linux | Tux Machines ● Jul 25 [14:11] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [14:14] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [14:21] *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [14:27] Ariadne 5:45 AM he and ariadne are frenemies? enemies? [14:27] Ariadne neither [14:35] *techuser (~techuser@mmg5z3yijp9ug.irc) has joined #techrights [14:39] *psymin (~psymin@me3biw7mdts84.irc) has joined #techrights [14:39] *psymin (~psymin@user/psymin) has joined #techrights [14:44] MinceR 25 130142 < schestowitz[TR2]> if orban entered [14:44] MinceR he would be amusing [14:45] MinceR considering that he believes he speaks english, but doesn't [14:45] MinceR "no majgrenc mor in" [14:51] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/22070813 [14:51] TR Bot IRCZ makes your life worth living https://i.redd.it/8ldxue0a8d991.jpg created on 2022-07-08 03:26:28.683630 [14:51] *techuser has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [14:55] *techuser (~techuser@rm437et3wctta.irc) has joined #techrights [14:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [14:59] MinceR Soros' money was wasted on orban's education ● Jul 25 [15:08] *DaemonFC (~chatzilla@gque3bc9xqygc.irc) has joined #techrights [15:21] TR News Mozilla Firefox 103 Is Now Available for Download, This Is Whats New Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167645 [15:21] TR Bot Mozilla Firefox 103 Is Now Available for Download, This Is Whats New | Tux Machines [15:28] psydroid2 https://www.cable.co.uk/energy/worldwide-pricing/ [15:28] TR Bot Worldwide Electricity Pricing | Energy Cost Per KWh in 230 Countries [15:30] IPFS () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi [15:37] TR News Inside the Minds of Microsofts Media Operatives Part III Attacking Real Security, Promoting Lies and Fake Security | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/ [15:37] TR Bot Inside the Minds of Microsofts Media Operatives Part III Attacking Real Security, Promoting Lies and Fake Security | Techrights [15:40] TR News [MEME] Sneak Preview: EPO Chain Gang Movie | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/ [15:40] TR Bot [MEME] Sneak Preview: EPO Chain Gang Movie | Techrights [15:44] XRevan86 https://theins.press/en/news/253484 https://theins.press/en/news/253493 [15:44] TR Bot If you don't go to war, theyll put you in a pit: A secret prison for Russian soldiers who refuse to go to war [15:44] TR Bot If we blaze the trail, others will follow: The parents of Russian balkers enter the LPR to rescue their children from detention [15:44] XRevan86 https://theins.press/en/news/253499 [15:44] TR Bot Philosophy professor fined for a sad emoji under an anti-war post [15:45] schestowitz[TR2] :( [15:45] XRevan86 https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2022/07/25/fsb-accuses-journalist-grozev-of-plotting-to-steal-russian-aircraft-by-order-of-ukraine-news "FSB accuses journalist Grozev of plotting to steal Russian aircraft by order of Ukraine" [15:45] TR Bot . [15:46] XRevan86 https://nitter.net/christogrozev/status/1551535542180929536 [15:46] TR News "Hello Smol world :-) Trying out this new platform!" gemini://jb.smol.pub/hello-world [15:47] TR Bot Christo Grozev (@christogrozev): "Today FSB announced that they have foiled a plot by Ukraines intelligence services to lure Russian military pilots to surrender to Ukraine with their planes in return for millions of USD in payments (thread)."|nitter [15:47] XRevan86 https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1551535542180929536.html this link is more appropriate [15:47] TR Bot Thread by @christogrozev on Thread Reader App Thread Reader App [15:47] TR News SpellBinding: ABLOPTY Wordo: NASAL gemini://tilde.cafe/~spellbinding/gemlog/2022-07-25.gmi [15:49] TR News "I have a little clock app that I use on my Raspberry Pi 0. It is written in Go. The Pi0 is a slow machine, so compiling Go code is actually pretty painful, despite the language having a reputation for fast compile times." gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/2022-07-25-pl.gmi [15:49] TR News FreeBSD Firewall gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/freebsd-firewall.gmi [15:50] TR News figlet test gemini://tozip.chickenkiller.com/figlet.gmi [15:50] XRevan86 https://nitter.net/JuliaDavisNews/status/1551415164821540864 [15:50] TR Bot Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews): "Meanwhile on Russian state TV: nationalist writer Alexander Prokhanov, who has been promoting Russia's war against Ukraine, is now being presented as a great artist. His strange, infantile "art" seems to be deliberately designed to promote the invasion of Ukraine to children."|nitter [15:51] XRevan86 https://en.zona.media/article/2022/06/12/natg [15:51] TR Bot We drove aimlessly through fields for days. After the invasion began, hundreds of Russian National Guard servicemen refused to fight in Ukraine and returned home [15:54] XRevan86 CIT (War in Ukraine): https://telegra.ph/Dispatch-for-July-25-07-23 , forgot about it earlier. [15:54] TR Bot Dispatch for July 22 Telegraph [15:54] schestowitz[TR2] not an emojhlow morale [15:54] schestowitz[TR2] for russian troops [15:54] schestowitz[TR2] no goal [15:54] schestowitz[TR2] not an emoji [15:54] schestowitz[TR2] :( [15:54] schestowitz[TR2] so no fines [15:55] schestowitz[TR2] *low morale [15:55] XRevan86 schestowitz: No illegal asterisks either. [15:56] TR News Today in #Techrights Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167646 [15:56] TR Bot Today in Techrights | Tux Machines [15:56] DaemonFC The car is in the shop, and of course nobody at Mandy's dentist is answering the phone so I can discuss the bills the insurance company kicked back at me for "improper billing code". [15:56] DaemonFC GRRRRR [15:57] DaemonFC You have to be a plumber and an electrician to work on a car. [15:57] DaemonFC If it's not a sensor, it's a vacuum leak. [15:58] DaemonFC I was watching F is for Family with Mandy and "Frank" bitches about his car all the time because it's rusted and backfiring and the door hits him sometimes. [15:58] DaemonFC Minor problems. At least cars in the 1970s ran and ran even long after they stopped looking pretty. [15:58] DaemonFC You still see some now. [15:58] DaemonFC It's worth buying maybe if you live in an emissions state, like I do. [15:58] DaemonFC They're exempt! [15:59] DaemonFC They never had pollution control on them anyway, except maybe a catalytic converter and a PCV valve. [15:59] DaemonFC You buy a car today, it has like 25 things on the list that all have to be working, or no pass. [15:59] XRevan86 schestowitz: Russian beef with Wikipedia is over them giving information not approved by the Russian War Ministry. ● Jul 25 [16:00] DaemonFC Meanwhile, the crooked Democrats let Stericycle, Medline, and the Waukegan Generating Plant gas us and spew out mercury and other air toxics. [16:00] DaemonFC While they're worried about my gas tank burping out a little bit of fumes. [16:01] DaemonFC It's impossible to get the fucking thing to seal right, no matter what gas cap you use. Just the OEM ones tend to piss off the computer less often. [16:02] DaemonFC It looks like I'm going to have to take the car in to be emissions tested in January, and maybe fill 'er up and circle the block a bunch of times to put the system into "ready" mode and then fill it up again so the tank holds vacuum, and then get it tested. [16:02] DaemonFC That'll pass, but it does wonders for the air, you know, making me drive it 50 more miles so it won't remember the gas tank has a vapor leak somewhere. [16:03] DaemonFC The "check gas cap" light only tends to come on when it's really muggy out _and_ you're down at least a quarter of a tank. [16:04] DaemonFC So I can probably just keep topping her off on emissions test week and then run her down there and get it to pass and then have the light come back on after I get my sticker. [16:04] DaemonFC "So help me you piece of shit, if you rat me out to these people you're going to the crushers! Do you hear me!?!?" [16:04] DaemonFC :) [16:07] DaemonFC The "Green New Deal" people like Eric Sandeen of Red Hat can just "help the environment along" by getting an EV that fails every 60,000 miles or 5 years, and makes them turn part of the Earth into another car. [16:07] *britney (~britney@muarsy2vret2q.irc) has joined #techrights [16:25] *schestowitz[TR2] back [16:25] schestowitz[TR2] britney: you got a compliment earlier [16:25] techuser wb [16:25] schestowitz[TR2] XRevan86: but Wikipedia is biaed [16:25] schestowitz[TR2] let's not let Russian liars distract from it [16:26] britney schestowitz[TR2], i did? [16:26] XRevan86 > matey: its probably my imagination, but britney seems like the nicest person ive met in here [16:27] schestowitz[TR2] the dit wars are always won by ther owners [16:27] schestowitz[TR2] so on politics and corporations wikiepdia became a sham [16:27] britney thank you matey [16:28] XRevan86 schestowitz: I take biased over blatant lies any day. [16:30] XRevan86 I bring this up because of "russia bans wikipedia; it felt unfairly treated; which is likely partly true". [16:31] XRevan86 It doesn't take much to make Russia feel unfairly treated, just share videos from Bucha in March. [16:32] XRevan86 It's a "What happened on the Tiananmen Square in 1989" kind of thing. Is the CPC unfairly treated? [16:33] *Despatche (~desp@u3xy9z2ifjzci.irc) has joined #techrights [16:34] *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [16:36] *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@5tcc2vuaj9aks.irc) has joined #techrights [16:44] *mib_7w75k7 (~c7f9e654@q8ban9vyag5t6.irc) has joined #techrights [16:45] *mib_7w75k7 has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) [16:51] *CrystalMath (~coderain@zpvtapq2in23w.irc) has joined #techrights [16:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [17:15] AdmFubar and you thought sharks with lasers was a bad idea! https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/new-apple-patent-suggests-iphones-could-get-feature-lasers-adding-more-biometric-capabilities-10943201.html [17:15] TR Bot Apple patent suggests iPhones could get feature lasers adding more biometric capabilities- Technology News, Firstpost [17:17] TR News Doxxing: a new tool of repression against Arab women https://news.trust.org/item/20220722143520-lxcou/ [17:17] TR Bot Doxxing: a new tool of repression against Arab women [17:18] TR News Speed Up Linux - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8XueTkMTNvc | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/8XueTkMTNvc [17:18] TR Bot Speed Up Linux - Invidious [17:24] TR News Thunderbird Time Machine: A Look Back At Thunderbird 0.1 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167647 [17:24] TR Bot Thunderbird Time Machine: A Look Back At Thunderbird 0.1 | Tux Machines [17:30] TR News Audiocasts/Shows/Videos: Speeding Up GNU/Linux, Aserto, WordPress, Steam Deck Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167648 [17:30] TR Bot Audiocasts/Shows/Videos: Speeding Up GNU/Linux, Aserto, WordPress, Steam Deck | Tux Machines [17:35] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.13 [SeaMonkey 2.53.13/20220708150114]) [17:37] *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@gque3bc9xqygc.irc) has joined #techrights [17:39] DaemonFC https://debugpointnews.com/gnome-web-43-extension/ [17:39] TR Bot reply from server ( status 0 @ https://debugpointnews.com/gnome-web-43-extension/ ) [17:42] phanes DaemonFC, so when you gettin a new car? that buick sounds like it's had it [17:42] DaemonFC I just bought it a few months ago. [17:42] DaemonFC Meh, emissions problems are not unusual. [17:42] DaemonFC The computers are super sensitive about that stuff these days. [17:43] DaemonFC The government forces the check engine light to come on over things cars wouldn't have even bothered you about 20 years ago. [17:43] DaemonFC Most of the time the engine light comes on, unless it's flashing, it means emissions. [17:43] DaemonFC The engine usually runs fine. [17:44] phanes i never get that on the v8 challenger [17:44] DaemonFC The system occasionally polls the fuel system to see if there's an absolutely perfect vacuum. [17:44] phanes trade 'er in get one you'll never want a buick again [17:44] DaemonFC And anything from the gas cap on down can cause the light to come on. [17:45] phanes ive never had to have my challenger services outside of breaks and fluids in almost 5 years [17:45] DaemonFC Well, after 15 years, not everything seals perfectly and you start getting vacuum line leaks or something. [17:45] phanes *serviced [17:45] DaemonFC It's not unusual. [17:46] DaemonFC Most of them aren't terribly expensive to fix, it's just annoying that you have to be down at the shop again. [17:46] DaemonFC Finding them turns out to be most of the time spent. [17:47] DaemonFC They're so small that the computer will detect the leak before you start smelling gas fumes, usually. [17:52] DaemonFC schestowitz, GNOME Web added HEVC support apparently. [17:52] DaemonFC In HTML 5. [17:53] DaemonFC Guessing Safari probably did it and they had sites sending it. [17:57] britney DaemonFC, not apparently, HEVC support is definitely there [17:59] phanes how come those dont just get treated like any other codec? like why is it part of the ui instead of a library package? ● Jul 25 [18:00] DaemonFC GStreamer is plug-in based. [18:00] TR News EPO Monday: A Carnival of Law-Breaking Fluff, Even Celebration of Crime | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/ [18:00] TR Bot EPO Monday: A Carnival of Law-Breaking Fluff, Even Celebration of Crime | Techrights [18:00] DaemonFC WebkitGTK can use or not use each codec. [18:01] DaemonFC So the only thing preventing HEVC support was a block at the engine level. [18:01] schestowitz[TR2] hevc is patent trap [18:01] schestowitz[TR2] but ibm loves spwats [18:01] schestowitz[TR2] ibm controls gnome [18:01] AdmFubar https://tech.slashdot.org/story/22/07/25/1428217/porsches-postponed-by-buggy-software-cost-vws-ceo-his-job?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed [18:01] TR Bot Porsches Postponed by Buggy Software Cost VW's CEO His Job - Slashdot [18:02] TR News TopHat is a Nifty System Monitor for GNOME Shell Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167649 [18:02] TR Bot TopHat is a Nifty System Monitor for GNOME Shell | Tux Machines [18:02] TR News Security Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167650 [18:02] TR Bot Security Leftovers | Tux Machines [18:03] britney schestowitz[TR2], most gnome contributors are non corporate personal accounts [18:05] psydroid2 for people who are employed by corporations but are pretending to be part of the independent "community"? [18:10] Ariadne pocock's new domain: suicide.fyi [18:10] Ariadne how edgy [18:14] DaemonFC Anything with "debian" in the name can be stolen by WIPO. [18:15] DaemonFC They could always GULAG him and threaten to sue him into the ground I guess. [18:17] DaemonFC They didn't like his postings, like the ones where he points out that Microsoft is funding Debian now. [18:17] *Ariadne shrug [18:17] Ariadne when i had disagreement about the future direction of alpine, i joined together with others and made alpine [18:18] DaemonFC It sounds like you'd be likely to run into incompatibility issues with Alpine. [18:18] Ariadne er, debian [18:19] DaemonFC Even 15 years ago, Torvalds defended the size of glibc. [18:19] Ariadne my point is before alpine, there was debian. there were disagreements, so we made alpine :) [18:20] DaemonFC No, 20 years ago even. [18:20] DaemonFC https://ecos.sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2002-01/msg00079.html [18:20] TR Bot Linus Torvalds - Re: [libc-alpha] Re: [open-source] Re: Wish for 2002 [18:20] Ariadne pocock is wasting his time on whatever this is, when he should apply his engineering talent to creating something better [18:21] schestowitz[TR2] we're about to take the beta of tuxmachines live on alpine [18:22] schestowitz[TR2] regarding debian.community, it was a "new" site [18:22] schestowitz[TR2] when he writes in his own site it's better syled [18:22] schestowitz[TR2] but over time the tone got worse and worse [18:22] schestowitz[TR2] even in 2020 I was unable to copy articles because of taste issue [18:23] schestowitz[TR2] but the attacks on his worsen it [18:23] schestowitz[TR2] and they don't seem to get it [18:23] schestowitz[TR2] prenning is now with arch [18:23] schestowitz[TR2] vut still maintains a few things in debian [18:23] schestowitz[TR2] like kde [18:23] schestowitz[TR2] not texlive [18:24] Ariadne fwiw i agree that debian as a project is a dumpster fire [18:24] Ariadne again, i solved that by leaving :) [18:24] schestowitz[TR2] china bases on debian [18:24] Ariadne still have many friends there though, and not really impressed with pocock's harassment of them [18:24] schestowitz[TR2] can you imagine chinese dd and DPL? [18:24] schestowitz[TR2] cannot criticise "party leader" [18:25] DaemonFC Debian moves things around too much. [18:25] DaemonFC They ship with bizarre misconfigurations and announce forks that go dead and pile up security hazards quickly. [18:25] DaemonFC Like that libav crap. [18:25] Ariadne libav was mostly gentoo's fault [18:26] DaemonFC "Oh, we'll fork ffmpeg and clean everything up." then it just sits there, and sits there. [18:26] Ariadne another dumpster fire, admittedly [18:26] DaemonFC The only thing they changed were the binary names, and then it rots and rots. [18:26] Ariadne hmm, that's not really what happened [18:26] DaemonFC ffmpeg keeps adding codecs, libav rots some more and has another month with no security patches. [18:26] Ariadne ffmpeg merged frequently from libav and merged things that libav refused to merge [18:27] Ariadne this is a "fork control" tactic, and one which was effective in ffmpeg's case [18:28] Ariadne what doomed libav in the end was that all the people who wanted to go sue people for major damages for GPL violations fell on that side of the fork [18:28] DaemonFC Stallman did something similar with FSF emacs. [18:28] Ariadne while ffmpeg reinvented its own image [18:28] DaemonFC They didn't want to accept code that wasn't assigned to them by Lucid. [18:28] Ariadne yes, Stallman beat XEmacs by staying infront of it [18:28] DaemonFC So they just implemented all of the same features eventually, in new code. [18:29] Ariadne so basically libav became associated with litigation, while ffmpeg lost that association and gained corporate support [18:30] IPFS () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi [18:30] Ariadne an example of how sue-happy libav was: they sued ffmpeg for "infringing" "their" logo [18:30] *oarion7 (~anonymous@user/oarion7) has joined #techrights [18:31] Ariadne all michael had to do as ffmpeg maintainer was seed the thought -- they'll sue another FOSS project, they'll probably sue you too [18:31] Ariadne and that killed libav dead [18:32] DaemonFC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libav#Confusion [18:32] TR Bot Libav - Wikipedia [18:32] DaemonFC libav did a lot of nasty propaganda and made it hard for the user to have both installed on their system, deliberately. [18:32] Ariadne yes [18:33] DaemonFC I recall being very confused when I typed ffmpeg on an Ubuntu system and was told that ffmpeg was deprecated. [18:33] DaemonFC Then I found out what was actually going on and was pretty pissed. [18:34] Ariadne ah yeah, `avconv` or whatever [18:34] DaemonFC Shit changes all the time in Debian and Ubuntu, for no good reason. [18:34] DaemonFC And then the user has to sort out the mess. [18:34] Ariadne alpine stuck with ffmpeg [18:35] TR News UK Covid-19:Percent tested positive twice as bad as July 2021 and about 10 times worse than in July 2020! https://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/07/25/not-enough-tests/ [18:35] TR Bot Blog Archive UK Not Testing Enough for COVID-19 (More Than 1 in 10 Now Test Positive, But Testing Rates at New Lows) [18:35] TR News As seen in our latest EPO series, the EPO cannot distinguish/differentiate a patent office from a bank http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/magampinos-great-leap-forward/ [18:35] TR Bot [Meme] The EPOs Great Leap Forward | Techrights [18:35] DaemonFC Mostly, forks are jsut bad all around. [18:35] DaemonFC They hurt everybody. [18:35] TR News As EPO presidents, Benot Battistelli and Antnio Campinos have figured out a way to print more monopolies http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-unprecedented-surge-animation/ [18:35] TR Bot [Meme] The EPOs Unprecedented Surge | Techrights [18:36] DaemonFC They leave users stuck not knowing what to do with the trouble they cause. [18:37] TR News Rakudo Weekly News: 2022.30 What https://rakudoweekly.blog/2022/07/25/2022-30-what/ [18:37] TR Bot 2022.30 What Rakudo Weekly News [18:39] TR News DIY Macro-keyboard gemini://tilde.club/~filip/text/gemlog/20220725_diy_macro-keyboard.gmi [18:40] TR News "This is just a short pointer on how to use IPFS to access the care list, for anyone who doesn't know and/or isn't interested in learning more about it right now. To learn more you should go to the official website or search around." gemini://siiky.srht.site/care/ipfs.gmi [18:40] TR News "I wrote a CHICKEN Scheme egg to control a Kubo node through its RPC API." gemini://siiky.srht.site/code/ipfs.gmi [18:42] matey again, i solved that by leaving :) <- if debian is so terrible that people are dying as a result, you didnt solve that, you avoided it-- which is an acceptable move obviously [18:42] TR News "It has to be a real programming language, not a modelling one!" gemini://siiky.srht.site/petri_nets/log003.gmi [18:42] matey given the over-the-top nature of his writing, im certainly keeping watch for material that can debunk it [18:42] Ariadne matey: if debian is dying because of a self-inflicted wound, then the free market is working as intended [18:43] schestowitz[TR2] it's still a shame [18:43] schestowitz[TR2] and a waste of effort [18:43] matey i meant people literally dying [18:43] Ariadne the background is that pocock was caught supervising his girlfriend during Debian GSoC 2017 [18:43] schestowitz[TR2] ian died in 2016 iirc [18:43] matey the free market may not give a shit about that [18:43] Ariadne his membership in debian was suspended as a result of that [18:43] schestowitz[TR2] Ariadne: he denies this [18:43] Ariadne he can deny whatever he wants [18:44] schestowitz[TR2] i think it might be fabricated as a projection tactic [18:44] matey personally i consider debian to be slave software, not free software [18:44] matey but the level of (real) exploitation is certainly (and should be) up for debate [18:44] Ariadne i can say that alpine was designed to avoid many of the problems debian has [18:45] Ariadne (in terms of governance) [18:45] Ariadne pocock is smart, he could make his own distribution if he wanted [18:45] matey he wants to fight what he considers injustice [18:45] Ariadne this stuff is just masturbation [18:46] matey this stuff is just masturbation <- he IS making people aware of issues. for me the question is whether his claims are wrong [18:46] matey it certainly wont fix debian either. debian is going to remain like this [18:46] matey theres no reforming it [18:47] Ariadne there is likely some truth to what he says, but there is a lot that he is intentionally misinterpreting in bad faith too [18:47] matey he also seems really pisspoor at certain transparency [18:47] matey he talks about volunteers working [18:47] matey imo he probably means himself, though there could be others [18:47] matey on his website [18:48] Ariadne his website advocates swatting people [18:48] matey i criticised him heavily for that [18:48] matey and as far as i know, that was just one person [18:48] matey which doesnt change the fact, but i wouldnt use the word people unless it was people [18:49] Ariadne encouraging the sending of police to somebody's home is basically the same as attacking them yourself [18:49] matey i suppose you can argue that as a blanket statement "singular 'people'" without technically being incorrect gramatically speaking [18:49] TR News Kubernetes Troubleshooting: Finding the Right Monitoring Solution - Container Journal https://containerjournal.com/features/kubernetes-troubleshooting-finding-the-right-monitoring-solution/ Source: containerjournal [18:49] TR Bot Kubernetes Troubleshooting: Finding the Right Monitoring Solution - Container Journal [18:50] matey obviously he draws a boatload of criticism [18:50] Ariadne i think it is difficult to find any FOSS project that is approaching 30 years old that does not have skeletons in its closet [18:50] matey and the criticism is often as difficult to sift through factwise as his own work [18:51] Ariadne GNU has skeletons, Debian has skeletons, etc [18:51] TR News Feren OS Review: Clever KDE Distro for Easy Migration from Windows Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167651 [18:51] TR Bot Feren OS Review: Clever KDE Distro for Easy Migration from Windows | Tux Machines [18:51] Ariadne even Alpine has skeletons [18:51] matey i dont think gnu has anything remotely like debian in this regard [18:51] matey hopefully alpine hasnt killed anyone yet. i certainly wouldnt assume it has [18:52] schestowitz[TR2] debian has literal skeletons [18:52] Ariadne i am willing to believe debian is not responsible for anyone's suicide until i see an actual suicide note saying as such [18:52] schestowitz[TR2] same for epo [18:52] matey nice [18:52] schestowitz[TR2] many suicides there [18:52] matey until i see an actual suicide note saying as such <- that seems like a double standard [18:52] Ariadne how is that a double standard [18:52] matey we know why near killed themselves. but if it wasnt (and may not be) in the suicide note [18:52] Ariadne pocock asserts that Debian is responsible for Frans Pop's suicide [18:52] matey would it need to be for us to know how it happened? [18:53] Ariadne near posted their suicide note on their twitter [18:53] matey what im saying is [18:53] Ariadne and explicitly identified kiwifarms as the cause [18:53] matey yes [18:53] matey but if the note did not state that [18:53] matey it would still be clear enough what happened [18:53] matey no? [18:54] Ariadne my point is that i have yet to see any evidence other than hearsay from pocock to support the claim [18:54] matey i certainly dont want to dwell on this point, if theres any dispute im happy to drop it-- likewise if you agree with the point [18:54] matey my point is that i have yet to see any evidence other than hearsay from pocock to support the claim <- thats a fair point when put that way [18:54] Ariadne i think that if we are to say debian is responsible for a suicide there should be stronger evidence than that [18:54] matey i dont assume all of pococks points are fair-- its hard to imagine [18:55] matey there should be stronger evidence than that <- thats the problem with how he words things [18:55] matey hes too quick to draw the conclusion [18:55] matey he should present the evidence and state his feelings [18:55] matey but not pretend that OH THIS PROVES IT DOESNT IT [18:55] matey its not proof [18:55] Ariadne that's what i am saying [18:55] matey we agree on that at least to some degree [18:56] matey it decreases the value of his crusade at least partially [18:56] matey you can get interesting details from his work but now theres all this work to see what hes exaggerating, what hes right about, etc [18:56] DaemonFC Not just suicides. [18:56] DaemonFC The Debian cabal is causing heart attacks and car accidents too. [18:56] matey it would be nice if he was a little more helpful in this regard. he COULD be, most likely [18:56] matey but hes not [18:57] matey its a drawback [18:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 [18:59] DaemonFC https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/07/25/huntley-lake-in-the-hills-men-allegedly-stabbed-raccoon-with-sword-and-rake-struck-it-in-head-with-hammer/ [18:59] TR Bot Huntley, Lake in the Hills men allegedly stabbed raccoon with sword and rake, struck it in head with hammer ● Jul 25 [19:00] TR News EPO actively glorifies illegal actions and celebrates the perpetrators actions while based on the staff survey this site does not even remotely represent the views of EPO staff, only those who captured the organisation to oppress the staff http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/celebration-of-epo-crime/ [19:00] TR Bot EPO Monday: A Carnival of Law-Breaking Fluff, Even Celebration of Crime | Techrights [19:00] matey there were two things i disliked about his treatment of the person he suggested swatting [19:00] matey one, is obviously that thing itself [19:00] TR News The sad or sadist future of EPO patent granting, in particular European software patents under Antnio Campinos http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/epo-sadists/ [19:00] TR Bot [Meme] Sneak Preview: EPO Chain Gang Movie | Techrights [19:00] matey i dont think that can simply be excused, and i found it revoltingly hypocritical. just about the worst point in his campaign [19:00] TR News Nontechnical talking points from Microsoft suits and paid analysts are promoted by veiled media operatives which saturate the pool of news and end up reducing the signal-to-noise ratio, in effect spreading disinformation (fake news) on behalf of Microsoft so as to hide from very simple (albeit uncomfortable) facts; http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/nontechnical-security-talking-points/ [19:00] TR Bot Inside the Minds of Microsofts Media Operatives Part III Attacking Real Security, Promoting Lies and Fake Security | Techrights [19:00] matey id struggle to think of worse [19:01] matey but the other point i didnt like was the way he exploited any mental health issues, which i think he did [19:01] matey if he can draw a line to the relevance, maybe thats one thing [19:01] matey i dont think he succeded in doing so, and this goes beyond poor taste [19:01] matey its just bad [19:02] matey mention it if its truly relevant. otherwise wtf [19:02] matey these are the lowest points in his work imo [19:02] matey to say the least it wasnt directed at someone i admire or respect or could ever begin to trust [19:02] matey doesnt really matter though [19:03] XRevan86 DaemonFC: Is your opinion on Debian providing MariaDB over Oracle MariaDB the same? [19:03] matey i wish he had a little more finesse about it [19:04] DaemonFC Eh, if it's a piece of crap like libav was... [19:04] matey but i dont think that will change. maybe he learned from that, maybe he didnt-- if he didnt he likely never will [19:04] XRevan86 > Mostly, forks are just bad all around; They hurt everybody. [19:04] Ariadne XRevan86: in fairness, Debian did not put its weight behind MariaDB as an endorsement, like they did with gentoo on libav [19:04] XRevan86 Ariadne: Didn't they? [19:04] matey theyre really good for pasta (personally i prefer chopsticks) [19:04] Ariadne and, most distributions followed the MariaDB fork :) [19:05] Ariadne XRevan86: not really. switching to MariaDB was much more lowkey :) [19:05] matey forced unity between people who will always be at odds can be worse than a fork [19:05] XRevan86 Except Ubuntu, which causes a lot of pain. [19:05] matey a fork is a divorce. staying married can hurt people too [19:05] Ariadne absolutely [19:05] phanes Ariadne, how did this issue with pocock/debian start? like what was the trigger? I think everybody knows what he's doing now sucks, but I haven't heard from anyone what his beef actually is [19:05] DaemonFC https://www.lakemchenryscanner.com/2022/07/23/hate-crime-charges-filed-against-man-who-allegedly-vandalized-lake-in-the-hills-cafe-on-day-of-drag-show/ [19:05] TR Bot Hate crime charges filed against man who allegedly vandalized Lake in the Hills cafe on day of drag show [19:06] XRevan86 I wonder what made Ubuntu diverge from Debian regarding MariaDB. [19:06] Ariadne phanes: his membership in debian was suspended for 6 months over an incident involving GSoC 2017 [19:06] matey (sometimes a fork is more of a mistress, but we wont go there) [19:06] phanes ive heard from some folks that he took up for appelbaum and was pushed out for it [19:06] XRevan86 Do they have some special sympathy for Oracle? [19:06] matey why isnt there a male word for (the male equivalent) of mistress [19:06] DaemonFC Do they have some special sympathy for Oracle? [19:06] Ariadne phanes: it is *alleged* that pocock was supervising his girlfriend in GSoC 2017, and it put the entire Debian participation in GSoC 2017 at risk [19:06] matey as in "man outside of marriage who was slept with" [19:06] DaemonFC They're a thrall of Microsoft. [19:06] DaemonFC Why would they not ship Oracle software? [19:07] phanes Ariadne, nepotism concerns? [19:07] XRevan86 matey: Didn't we discuss "favourites"? :) [19:07] Ariadne phanes: right [19:07] matey we did, but ive still never heard that used in any context im aware of, ever [19:07] matey the usage may exist, i think its relevant that in decades ive never seen it in the wild [19:08] Ariadne anyway, since his membership was suspended, he decided to go after everyone else who was doing the same thing he was allegedly suspended for [19:08] matey also favourite isnt gendered. which is fine, only it doesnt completely satisfy what i was asking about either [19:08] XRevan86 "Lover" is gender-neutral. [19:08] Ariadne that led to his expulsion from the project [19:08] matey "lover" doesnt always imply infidelity, while mistress does [19:08] matey lover is neutral in that regard [19:08] Ariadne from there it has just gotten more and more ridiculous [19:08] phanes Ariadne, how is that distinguishable from chris lamb w/ de blanc? [19:09] XRevan86 matey: "Favourite" is heavy male-leaning. [19:09] Ariadne well, i do not think either of them were participating in GSoC 2017 [19:09] matey among zero uses ive actually seen in the english speaking world [19:09] phanes ok i just need to read it sounds like [19:09] matey which includes your domicile, imo [19:09] matey its part of the english speaking world obviously [19:09] Ariadne but generally, i don't think it is appropriate for members of an executive body to be in personal relationships either [19:10] Ariadne in other words, one incident existing does not forgive the existence of another incident [19:10] matey it certainly causes problems for the organisation [19:11] matey im not sure i sympathise with the organisation. as an ideal rule of thumb, we can be reasonable and at least hope high ranking people avoid this [19:11] matey i mean reasonable as opposed to "anything goes" [19:12] phanes depends on how the org handles it [19:12] phanes people fall in love [19:12] phanes the solution is "one of you has to move to a different part of the org" [19:12] matey people who are in a relationship, whether or not there are rules around it [19:13] phanes i dont think expelling people is right unless they refuse to relocate [19:13] matey should obviously make efforts to act with an absolute minimum of favouritism and-- i realise there will be biases [19:13] matey only they should try to mitigate them at least [19:13] matey rather than ride them home [19:13] Ariadne phanes: i think it is important to recognize that pocock was expelled because of his behavior *after* the incident, not because of the incident itself [19:14] phanes what was that behaviour? [19:14] Ariadne he started doing what he is doing now [19:15] Ariadne forwarding private mails to public lists, doxing people, etc [19:15] phanes its unfathomable to me that someone with that pedigree, standing, and skill level would slip off the rails just because he got called out on a conflict of interest with his partner [19:16] Ariadne it is further alleged that his father passed away during all of this, and he was also dismissed from FSFE as a result of his debian suspension [19:16] phanes ok, that sounds closer to home [19:16] phanes just multiple crises all going on at once [19:16] matey the thing about his father passing seems to be what bothers him the most [19:17] phanes yeah it fucks you up [19:17] phanes im still recovering from when my dad died [19:17] phanes it changes everything [19:17] matey he felt pressured and abused by debian regarding [19:17] matey basically the theme comes up over and over [19:17] matey he was trying to grieve and-- in his eyes, they were basically like [19:17] matey pocock, if you cant get back to work we have to demote you [19:17] matey then they did [19:17] Ariadne either way, i don't think his current strategy is productive for improving software freedom or debian [19:18] matey and he took it REALLY personally [19:18] matey like start a crusade personally [19:18] matey some of what ariadne is saying MAY (even factually) contradict this narrative [19:18] matey it seems pocock sincerely believes it though. or hes exploiting his own grief-- im not cynical enough to assume so. [19:18] Ariadne no, that fits with my understanding -- that FSFE terminated him due to performance [19:18] phanes ive asked him directly before what's going on because he's showing signs of trauma response and he just kind of spins around in words [19:19] matey he's showing signs of trauma response and he just kind of spins around in words <- this is pocock to a tee [19:19] matey ive been trying to figure him out for years [19:19] matey for one because some of what he writes is so damning (of actually fucked up orgs) [19:19] matey his work is useful [19:19] phanes oh he's a valid threat [19:19] Ariadne there is some truth to what he says [19:19] matey for me, he was one of the first to shed light on... NO, this is NOT just fsfe [19:20] matey this is fsf too [19:20] matey there is some truth to what he says <- whats so damned frustrating is how hard it is to sort the wheat from the... pink slime [19:20] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [19:20] Ariadne i just don't get why he wants to focus on this, when he could use his engineering skills to build new structures [19:21] matey id say he needs an editor... thats probably a somewhat naive solution (but is it really naive if you already realise it) [19:21] matey i just don't get why he wants to focus on this <- i think phanes has already intuited why [19:21] phanes grief and brilliance are a bad and powerful combination [19:22] matey you hit the nail on the head with "trauma"-- grief can cause that, but i think fewer people will understand when its put in that term [19:22] Ariadne oh yes, there is definitely a trauma response happening with his work :p [19:22] matey i think this goes beyond grief, and the grief was a trigger. [19:22] matey but it can also be part of the cause [19:22] Ariadne but, i don't think most people care about who was sharing hotel rooms at debconf 6 years ago [19:23] phanes yeah i initially thought he had been targeted and was kind of thrashing in response but im not getting any indicator that this is the case and ive looked pretty hard [19:23] matey i don't think most people care about who was sharing hotel rooms at debconf 6 years ago <- not unless it was (as pocock paints it) [19:23] phanes there was conflict w/ MDB at one point [19:23] matey an unholy alliance complete with blood sacrifice etc etc etc [19:23] matey two people in love, stomping through the fallen masses of their regime... [19:24] Ariadne damn, debconf must have gotten far more interesting since the last one i attended [19:24] matey laughing maniacally [19:24] matey plotting further acts of destruction [19:24] matey partly im having a go at how he puts things, and partly im also having a go at lamb [19:26] Ariadne i mean i get that this is basically "oh, i got caught supervising my girlfriend during GSoC, but look, lamby is sleeping with his treasurer" [19:26] Ariadne and i will say that isn't a great look [19:26] phanes nerds conjugate at these conventions far more than i thought, I actively avoid any kind of romantic interaction at them to avoid both image problems that can come from it and also it a bad signal read can make people uncomfortable and create a scene [19:26] matey the latter is difficult to ignore [19:26] phanes like why mix work and play [19:27] matey pocock paints this as helping debian, and hes free to do so [19:27] matey i wouldnt be at all surprised if he believes it [19:27] Ariadne he does [19:27] matey if i had to guess, he wants debian to burn to the ground, and i would like to feel noble about it being razed [19:27] phanes debian really could use a change of the guard tbh [19:27] matey but its also possible he really thinks it can be saved, and i think thats naive (but in a way thats obviously very common) [19:28] Ariadne anyway, i have a meeting in 3 minutes and i need to restart my wayland session because pipewire is being annoying [19:28] *matey has quit (connection closed) [19:29] phanes if they put neil mcgovern's head on a spike in the front yard with no explanation that would probably go a long way to restoring debian imo [19:29] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [19:29] phanes "vladian justice" [19:30] XRevan86 Ariadne: Portal stuff? [19:35] phanes schestowitz[TR2], was MDB made president of the OSI -after- the Stallman campaign? [19:38] phanes no, neverind, doesn't line up [19:46] TR News Rocky Linux 9 arrives with Peridot http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167237#comment-34428 [19:46] TR Bot Rocky Linux 9 Officially Released with GNOME 40 Desktop, Improved Security | Tux Machines [19:49] TR News Firefox 103 Available to Download, But Promised Swipe Gesture is MIA Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167652 [19:49] TR Bot Firefox 103 Available to Download, But Promised Swipe Gesture is MIA | Tux Machines [19:55] *darwin has quit (Quit: Leaving) ● Jul 25 [20:00] TR News Upgrading what might be the worlds oldest running Linux install Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167653 [20:00] TR Bot Upgrading what might be the world's oldest running Linux install | Tux Machines [20:01] TR News System76 Refreshes Their Popular Oryx Pro Laptop with a New CPU http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167498#comment-34429 [20:01] TR Bot System76's Oryx Pro Linux Laptop Gets a 12th Gen Intel CPU, NVIDIA RTX 3000 Ti GPUs | Tux Machines [20:05] schestowitz[TR2] got the irc bot updated for the beta site [20:05] schestowitz[TR2] still password-protected for now [20:13] XRevan86 > CIT (War in Ukraine): https://telegra.ph/Dispatch-for-July-23-24-07-25 [20:13] TR Bot Dispatch for July 23-24 Telegraph [20:16] schestowitz[TR2] http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Upgrading_what_might_be_the_world's_oldest_running_Linux_install.shtml [20:16] TR Bot Upgrading what might be the world's oldest running Linux install [20:17] schestowitz[TR2] hello world [20:30] britney helloSystem [20:40] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [20:40] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [20:46] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [20:48] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [20:52] *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving) [20:52] britney What is the difference between a police officer and a highwayman? The Police Services Act [20:53] britney ACAB [20:53] TR News Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167654 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Android_Leftovers.shtml [20:53] TR Bot Android Leftovers | Tux Machines [20:53] TR Bot ( status 401 @ https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Android_Leftovers.shtml ) [20:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [21:04] TR News Code review at the speed of email https://drewdevault.com/2022/07/25/Code-review-with-aerc.html Source: drewdevault | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//drewdevault.com/2022/07/25/Code-review-with-aerc.html [21:04] TR Bot Code review at the speed of email [21:05] TR News Now you can make shawarma at your desk | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/now-you-can-make-shawarma-at-your-desk/ Source: Arduino | Hardware | OpenHardware | Hacking | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/now-you-can-make-shawarma-at-your-desk/ [21:05] TR Bot Now you can make shawarma at your desk | Arduino Blog [21:06] TR News Rakwireless introduces WisBlock modular power supply, IP65 enclosures, and more sensor modules - CNX Software https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/07/25/rakwireless-wisblock-modular-power-supply-ip65-enclosures-sensor-modules/ Source: Linux | GNU | Hardware | cnxsoftware [21:06] TR Bot Rakwireless introduces WisBlock modular power supply, IP65 enclosures, and more sensor modules - CNX Software [21:09] TR News GSoC update: Draw Ellipses in Krita https://blog.xuche.ml/post/gsoc-update-draw-ellipses-in-krita/ [21:09] TR Bot GSoC update: Draw Ellipses in Krita :: Shidao's blog [21:09] TR News "On Saturday 16 July 2022 KDE Eco held the second in-person Sprint to work on the community measurement lab at the KDAB office in Berlin. The Sprint is one of several planned follow-up events." https://eco.kde.org/blog/2022-07-25-sprint-lab-follow-up/ [21:09] TR Bot Measurement Lab Follow-Up: Sprint Achievements And To-dos - KDE Eco [21:10] TR News Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167655 http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/today's_howtos.shtml #news [21:10] TR Bot today's howtos | Tux Machines [21:10] TR Bot ( status 404 @ http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/today's_howtos.shtml ) [21:11] AdmFubar it's a hack hack hacky place! https://hackaday.com/2022/07/25/mcterminals-give-the-hamburglar-a-chance/ [21:11] TR Bot Give The Hamburglar A Chance | Hackaday [21:16] TR News Programming: KDE coding, Code review at the speed of email, and Rakudo Weekly News Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167656 http://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Programming:_KDE_coding,_Code_review_at_the_speed_of_email,_and_Rakudo_Weekly_News.shtml #news [21:16] TR Bot Programming: KDE coding, Code review at the speed of email, and Rakudo Weekly News | Tux Machines [21:16] TR Bot Programming: KDE coding, Code review at the speed of email, and Rakudo Weekly News [21:19] TR News Using nmap to scan networks (Awesome Linux Tools) - Invidious

    Read more [21:19] TR Bot Using nmap to scan networks (Awesome Linux Tools) - Invidious [21:19] TR News Using nmap to scan networks (Awesome Linux Tools) - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=5tzp9QzwnUQ | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/5tzp9QzwnUQ [21:20] TR News Manjaro 21.3.0 Xfce Edition Quick overview #linux #Manjaro - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=GdpV5Nyfn7s | Gemini address: gemini://auragem.space/youtube/video/GdpV5Nyfn7s [21:20] TR Bot Manjaro 21.3.0 Xfce Edition Quick overview #linux #Manjaro - Invidious [21:21] Ariadne XRevan86: no, i use bluetooth in-ear monitors, and everytime i turn them on, pipewire gets moody and needs to be restarted [21:22] Ariadne pulseaudio did not have this problem ;/ [21:25] MinceR i see the CADT development model is working out as usual :> [21:28] TR News "Unfortunately I would like to inform kde community that I am stepping away from Latte development. No time,motivation or interest from my part is the main reason. I hope that this will give free space and air for new developers/maintainers to step in and move Latte forward." https://psifidotos.blogspot.com/2022/07/latte-dock-farewell.html [21:28] TR Bot psifidotos: Latte Dock | Farewell... [21:30] IPFS () Planet Gemini updated. Latest complete date at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-24.gmi and so far today at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/2022-07-25.gmi with 3-day aggregate at gemini://gemini.techrights.org/planet/othercapsules/allinone.gmi [21:35] TR News Reviving a vintage secondary split-flap clock with Arduino | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/07/25/reviving-a-vintage-secondary-split-flap-clock-with-arduino/ Source: Arduino | Hardware | OpenHardware | Hacking [21:36] TR Bot Reviving a vintage secondary split-flap clock with Arduino | Arduino Blog [21:36] *bagira (~phanes@x36sbzcacxpvc.irc) has joined #techrights [21:36] *phanes has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s) [21:38] TR News Fedora to disallow CC0-licensed code [LWN] https://lwn.net/Articles/902410/ Source: LWN | Kernel | Linux | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//lwn.net/Articles/902410/ [21:38] TR Bot to disallow CC0-licensed code [LWN.net] [21:39] TR News GNU poke 2.4 released Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167657 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/GNU_poke_2.4_released.shtml #news [21:39] TR Bot GNU poke 2.4 released | Tux Machines [21:39] TR Bot GNU poke 2.4 released [21:40] TR News Nobara Is a Fedora-Based Linux Distro with Gamers in Mind Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167658 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Nobara_Is_a_Fedora-Based_Linux_Distro_with_Gamers_in_Mind.shtml [21:40] TR Bot Nobara Is a Fedora-Based Linux Distro with Gamers in Mind | Tux Machines [21:40] TR Bot Nobara Is a Fedora-Based Linux Distro with Gamers in Mind [21:43] XRevan86 Ariadne: What is this in-ear monitor thing ye speak of? [21:45] Ariadne XRevan86: i have two, both have bugs with pipewire -- a pair of airpods pro, and some samsung one that i rarely use because it's even buggier [21:45] TR News What is the Rc Shell and How to Install It in Linux - Make Tech Easier https://www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-rc-shell-linux/ Source: maketecheasier | Gemini address: gemini://gemi.dev/cgi-bin/waffle.cgi/view?https%3A//www.maketecheasier.com/what-is-rc-shell-linux/ [21:45] TR Bot What is the Rc Shell and How to Install It in Linux - Make Tech Easier [21:45] Ariadne both work just fine with pulseaudio [21:50] XRevan86 Fine, I'll look up what that is. [21:54] TR News Microsoft kept away https://www.itjungle.com/2022/07/25/no-plan-to-bring-net-to-power-ibm-says/ [21:54] TR Bot No Plan To Bring .NET To Power, IBM Says - IT Jungle [21:58] TR News Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167659 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/howtos_2.shtml #news [21:58] TR Bot today's howtos | Tux Machines [21:58] TR Bot today's howtos [21:59] TR News The 6 Best Vim Plugin Managers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167660 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/The_6_Best_Vim_Plugin_Managers.shtml #news [21:59] TR Bot The 6 Best Vim Plugin Managers | Tux Machines [21:59] TR Bot The 6 Best Vim Plugin Managers ● Jul 25 [22:05] TR News Berlin Mini GUADEC http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167633#comment-34431 [22:05] TR Bot Berlin Mini GUADEC 2022 | Tux Machines [22:06] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [22:07] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [22:10] TR News Seafile - Sync and Share Your Files Ubuntu Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167661 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Fedora_and_IBM_Leftovers.shtml #news [22:10] TR Bot Seafile - Sync and Share Your Files Ubuntu | Tux Machines [22:10] TR Bot Fedora and IBM Leftovers [22:10] TR News Fedora and IBM Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167662 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Seafile_-_Sync_and_Share_Your_Files_Ubuntu.shtml #news [22:10] TR Bot Fedora and IBM Leftovers | Tux Machines [22:10] TR Bot Seafile - Sync and Share Your Files Ubuntu [22:13] TR News Findex - A Super Fast Tool to Search & Launch Your Apps in Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167663 [22:13] TR Bot Findex - A Super Fast Tool to Search & Launch Your Apps in Linux | Tux Machines [22:15] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [22:23] TR News Links 25/07/2022: Mozilla Firefox 103 and GNU poke 2.4 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/07/25/mozilla-firefox-103/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/07/25/mozilla-firefox-103/ [22:23] TR Bot Links 25/07/2022: Mozilla Firefox 103 and GNU poke 2.4 | Techrights [22:24] TR News Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino and Rakwireless Wisblock Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167664 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/Open_HardwareModding:_Arduino_and_Rakwireless_Wisblock.shtml #news [22:24] TR Bot Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino and Rakwireless Wisblock | Tux Machines [22:24] TR Bot Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino and Rakwireless Wisblock [22:25] TR News Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/167665 https://news.tuxmachines.org/n/2022/07/25/today's_leftovers.shtml #news [22:25] TR Bot today's leftovers | Tux Machines [22:25] TR Bot today's leftovers [22:29] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [22:30] *psydroid2 has quit (connection closed) [22:40] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights [22:41] *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights [22:53] *matey (~matey@txt39mzjsjjpa.irc) has joined #techrights [22:59] IPFS IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 29.36 k/sec., IPFS upstream 4.86 average k/sec., average swarm size 0 ● Jul 25 [23:04] matey habitually they also misplace blame (offloading culpability for malware to "Linux") in order to shift the public's attention, partly because GNU/Linux and BSD are optimal alternatives for security-minded governments/enterprises [23:05] matey if im not mistaken, roy said bsd is an optimal alternative for security-minded governments/enterprises [23:05] matey ive never been an enterprise before. i considered myself more of a defiant [23:06] matey but unlike the defiant, i have a docking port [23:11] bagira matey, im in enterprise (fortune list only consultant) [23:11] bagira he's right [23:11] matey fun [23:11] matey oh yeah [23:11] matey its just [23:11] bagira most corporate environments that are security sensitive use linux [23:11] bagira almost none use bsd [23:12] matey why [23:12] bagira some use windows and invariably shift to linux for hosted services [23:12] bagira its not cost, rhel is the dominant player in that space and it costs pretty decent [23:12] bagira its just better to manage with many hosts [23:12] bagira and it is more secure [23:13] matey linux is more secure than bsd? [23:13] bagira windows environments are usually full of holes both for infosec and config mgmt [23:13] matey i think we are talking about two diferent things [23:13] matey or at least two slightly different things [23:13] bagira no bsd isnt widely used because its ecosystem of components and management tools is much smaller [23:14] matey it would have helped (this is no fault of yours) if youd known the context of my first comment on this topic [23:14] bagira it just wont fit into a corporate systems config mgmgt or it security model [23:14] bagira windows is actually a better choice than bsd for most corporate environments with many machines running [23:15] bagira not because the os is better (it isn't) but because it costs less to run large scale when you look at staffing overhead and equipment [23:15] matey well youve just guaranteed my next year will be unpleasant [23:16] bagira why's that [23:16] matey because ever since i moved to bsd roy has slagged it off over the most ridiculous (even made up) things he can give his hands on [23:16] matey you basically just provided him with a nuclear arsenal for trolling [23:16] bagira lol [23:16] bagira im not saying i would use windows [23:16] matey its not your fault for saying what you think is true based on your professional knowledge [23:16] bagira i only use it when the client wont budge [23:17] bagira ii reliably turn down jobs that require the use of azure for anything other than managed native services [23:17] matey yeah [23:18] matey but note what hes saying here at least: [23:18] matey "because GNU/Linux and BSD are optimal alternatives for security-minded governments/enterprises" [23:18] matey hes actually saying bsd is "optimal" for governments and enterprise [23:18] bagira not at scale [23:18] matey what i intended to do [23:18] matey was tease him about saying something positive about bsd when he slags it off so much [23:19] matey i was already aware of the marketshare issue [23:19] matey it just wont fit into a corporate systems config mgmgt or it security model <- some of this is because the model is written around windows and gnu/linux in the first place [23:20] matey how much? i dont know. [23:20] matey but i think its fair to say [23:20] matey the whole point of microsoft getting into training and a+ and all that, is to make it so you have to know windows to get those credentials [23:21] matey then the ecosystem expects this as a standard [23:21] matey but again, how much of this is circular/authoritarian/marketing-determined standards and how much is actually good common sense / security is up for debate obviously [23:21] matey it isnt my intention to get into such a debate, only to say [23:21] bagira until they can get ansible running well on it, comprehensively, and easily available, and get paid support that comes even close to what rhel provides, bsd doesn't have a chance in corporate or gov outside of small envs, and wont have that "interface" to corporations [23:22] matey this will make the next year unpleasant [23:22] matey and get paid support that comes even close to what rhel provides, bsd doesn't have a chance in corporate or gov outside of small envs <- that isnt shocking to me [23:22] bagira i dont like ansible btw [23:22] matey the market is designed around products more than the other way around [23:22] bagira im just saying, if you want to sell an os to corporate, you need paid support and you need ansible [23:22] matey the tail wags the dog [23:22] bagira yes [23:22] bagira i feel the same way about microservice architecture [23:23] matey if you want to sell an os to corporate <- fortunately this is neither one of my ambitions, nor the reason i promote bsd [23:23] matey its almost (not quite) like saying "it doesnt matter how nice the dress is, if she wants it in pink and you dont have that, she isnt interested" [23:24] bagira well, i mean, you said corporate and gov. [23:24] matey which is a sound argument if she wants pink and you dont have that. [23:24] matey you said corporate and gov. <- true but only in a quote [23:24] matey and then a response [23:24] bagira most corps and govs would rather pay for something than get it for free [23:24] bagira because then someone is on the hook for it [23:24] matey that doesnt surprise me either [23:24] matey yeah [23:24] matey i mean [23:24] matey the dod can ignore both patents and copyright [23:24] matey they can legally do wtf they want [23:24] matey they go to other countries and kill lots of people [23:25] matey "oh shit! but we arent following the gpl license for this missile!" [23:25] matey but like you say [23:25] matey they want someone they can blame [23:25] matey and its easy to buy that [23:25] matey "oh shit! but we arent following the gpl license for this missile!" <- one of many reasons ethical source is such tripe [23:26] matey its a a copyright license and they arent bound to it [23:26] matey but they get more than a license when they buy something [23:27] matey they get a service contract [23:27] matey thats where the money is [23:27] *rianne_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *Redfoxmoon_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *schestowitz has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *sbp has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *mekkis has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *schestowitz[TR] has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *lightbringer has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *ohama has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *cybrNaut has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *huggi has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *hvxgr has quit (*.net *.split) [23:27] *psydroid has quit (*.net *.split) [23:29] *rowbee has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [23:29] *Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [23:29] *rsheftel1435 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds) [23:29] *Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). [23:31] bagira yep red hat is a services company not a product company [23:32] matey disservices [23:33] matey systemd-servicesd [23:33] matey systemd-take-off-every-zig-move-zigd [23:34] matey /me hasnt checked if it works this way [23:34] matey but one thing they havent done with doom yes is run it in pid 1 with systemd as a service [23:35] matey i somehow doubt it runs services in the same pid of course-- the only issue its such a giant ridiculous thing to have there in the first place [23:35] matey pid-doom-1 [23:35] matey doom as a service [23:35] bagira wait until those idiots at systemd start trying to integrate wayland-gnome into systemd [23:36] bagira theyre prob goign to try to push out all other desktops and force user choice [23:36] matey gnomeos [23:36] matey xfce is already gnomes bitch [23:36] matey they didnt volunteer, gnome are arseholes [23:36] matey i call everything like that arseholeware [23:36] matey its not because the devs are arseholes [23:36] bagira yeah that shit needs isolated to its own little bubble [23:37] matey its becauese the software itself acts like an arsehole [23:37] matey it needs antigravs attached and beamed into space like nomad [23:37] matey I AM SYSTEMD. I AM PERFECT. [23:37] matey who am i? [23:37] bagira lol [23:37] matey YOU ARE THE LENNART. [23:37] matey im not the lennart! you made an error! [23:38] matey Error! Error! Must... Analyse... [23:38] matey you failed to recognise the error, you made TWO errors! [23:38] matey ERoorrr! errRor! [23:38] *DaemonFC (~chatzilla@qf86rjw8fdbjw.irc) has joined #techrights [23:38] bagira ya know i dont think ive ever seen a worse product than red hat certificate system [23:38] matey execute your prime function! [23:38] matey maybe windows itself [23:39] matey but a lot of these product lines-- trying to rank them its own game of cards against humanity [23:39] bagira its not that its over-engineered its that its so poorly understood by its own developers and technical writers [23:39] matey cards against technology [23:39] matey #techrights : 07/25/22 22:39 <- im gonna go out on a limb and say these are connected somehow [23:40] matey its not that its over-engineered its that its so poorly understood by its own developers <- this i mean [23:40] DaemonFC You came here to deadname and get Matt GULAG fired up, and you're unfortunately no all out of Matt GULAGs. [23:40] DaemonFC *not [23:41] bagira hm? im not tracking [23:41] matey if you overengineer it... youll be stumped [23:42] DaemonFC There is still one Matt GULAG here. [23:42] DaemonFC Which is one Mr. GULAG too many. [23:42] DaemonFC Do not feed Mr. GULAG. [23:42] bagira lol [23:42] matey i realise that overengineering has other more prominent connotations [23:42] matey and at least in some instances may not lead to a system no one understands [23:43] matey but overengineering is harder, and might be done poorly [23:43] matey and at that point you are indeed fucked [23:43] DaemonFC People who actually use the term "deadnaming" should be court ordered to wear a shock collar that goes off every time they say the word. [23:43] matey linus could not fork linux on his own anymore [23:43] matey he doesnt even know how it works [23:43] matey his own admission [23:43] bagira eh give it time, he'll either grow or fail, he's not a particularly difficult task, just a tedious one. he's really quite shallow imo. [23:43] bagira gulag i mean [23:43] matey not a scandal, but surely it says something [23:44] DaemonFC I get bumping Linux to C11, but putting Rust in it is unfortunate. [23:44] DaemonFC Those idiots that wanted to put C++ in it came back and did something even worse. [23:44] matey gulag is obviously the most oversophisticated webcrawler in the world [23:44] bagira the trick to guys like gulag DaemonFC is that when they run into one of their own they're so used to browbeating "the little people" in their view that they dont know what's going on and thing just jam up alot [23:44] DaemonFC And now they'll write spaghetti code that takes a million hours and a bajillion gigaquads of RAM to even compile. [23:45] bagira most people in this space don't make names for themselves at all let alone off the bodies of better people [23:45] DaemonFC The key to attacking people who don't want to deal with Rust is accuse them of transphobia. [23:45] matey why not [23:45] DaemonFC Another word where the shock collar should activate. [23:46] DaemonFC SeaMonkey is having a lot of problems due to Mozilla's use of Rust. [23:46] DaemonFC Stylo and WebRender don't work at all and have been disabled for the time being. [23:46] Ariadne i think gccrs will make rust a lot more tolerable [23:47] DaemonFC Which is okay for now, because the Rust code isn't THAT MUCH better than the C++ version it replaced, performance-wise, with Stylo. [23:47] bagira DaemonFC, its unfortunate what crying wolf results in [23:47] matey it would be nice if they made it stable [23:47] matey so it was less like a webapi posing as a programming language [23:47] Ariadne but a lot of memory safety issues in C can be detected by modern compilers [23:47] DaemonFC Missing WebRender is unfortunate because SeaMonkey picks up a lot of jank from having to deal with X11. [23:48] bagira yeah it just seems like a waste to invent a new language when we just needed more attention to project structure and preprocessor [23:48] Ariadne i also think that stuff like MMIO does not map well to rust's memory model [23:48] DaemonFC What you're seeing, performance wise, when SeaMonkey stutters a little, is more likely than not to be XWayland issues. [23:48] matey i dont think its ever a waste to create a new language [23:48] Ariadne seems like a lot of kernel code would be `unsafe{}` [23:48] DaemonFC There's some sites that are starting to fall apart in SeaMonkey. [23:48] matey but its a waste to use it to try to take over everything else [23:48] DaemonFC I can't browse gitlab repos with it. [23:49] matey mincer pwned mjg really hard (at least in terms of rhetoric) [23:49] Ariadne anyway, rust is nice to program in for *new* things [23:49] matey mjg said you couldnt do memory safe in other languages [23:49] DaemonFC Matt J. GULAG.....suuuuuuuper genius. [23:49] Ariadne as in, the language has nice ergonomics [23:49] matey mincer said he would take turing completeness over memory safe anyday [23:49] DaemonFC mateymjg said you couldnt do memory safe in other languages [23:49] DaemonFC If you know what you're doing, you can. [23:49] matey nice ergonomics are nice [23:50] Ariadne DaemonFC: you can't do provable memory safety in any language with UB [23:50] matey but the way a lot of people put rust together with chewing gum and duct tape, some of the ergonomics are lost [23:50] DaemonFC Besides, in Rust you don't always have memory safety. [23:50] matey "this is a nice way to bolt 200 random things together" [23:50] Ariadne practical memory safety is another story, of course [23:50] matey "what are you building?" [23:50] matey "a yes / no dialogue" [23:50] Ariadne but the interesting story about rust is the verifier [23:50] Ariadne and it can verify a lot of things other than memory safety [23:50] Ariadne for example, rust is good for writing emulators [23:50] DaemonFC Saying you're memory safe in Rust because you can do 80% of all that's possible without invoking unsafe is ridiculous. [23:51] Ariadne because you can develop against constraints [23:51] DaemonFC Because it's always that other 20%. [23:51] Ariadne and the compiler is smart enough to check your work [23:51] DaemonFC So maybe you're better at keeping track of WHERE the hazards are likely to be. [23:51] DaemonFC but that's it. [23:51] Ariadne does not mean i think rust is the answer to all problems though :) [23:51] matey if anything its the cause of many [23:51] DaemonFC You could create some subset of C or some other language that uses C that manages the nasty bits for you. [23:52] bagira i think the whole approach is wrong if they want to replace c. they need to start with a kernel and replace the c layer, and writing language bindings for c to sit on top of it [23:52] DaemonFC In fact, that's what Vala is. [23:52] matey but c makes you think like a pdp, man [23:52] bagira matey, pig in a pope hat? [23:52] matey :) [23:53] DaemonFC I agree that nobody using a modern language should have to worry about reference counting, garbage collection, etc. [23:53] DaemonFC Vala sends that all off to GObject. [23:53] matey www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24d8v8/whats_your_favorite_yes_phrase_like_does_a_bear/ [23:53] matey "Does the pope shit in his hat?" -Hank Schrader (Breaking Bad) 4. Share. Report Save. level 1 8 yr. ago. Does a hobby horse have a wooden dick? 3. Share. Report Save. level 1 8 yr. ago "Is the pope's ass watertight?" (My mom tends to jumble phrases together.) [23:54] MinceR any code written in SIMPLE is memory safe [23:54] Ariadne the big deal about rust isn't the memory safety -- rust isn't even the first language to have memory safety [23:54] MinceR it doesn't do anything, but considering most "modern" software, that's rarely a disadvantage [23:54] MinceR rust is a bondage-and-discipline language with no free implementation, controlled by MICROS~1 [23:55] Ariadne the big deal is that you get all of the infrastructure you would expect of an ML descendant [23:55] Ariadne but with syntax that is easy for people to pick up verses ML [23:56] Ariadne the fact that you can define a model, and code against it, and have the compiler check your work, and this is available in a language that isn't Haskell or F#, e.g. one that normal people can use, is a huge deal [23:56] DaemonFC Amusingly, it's almost always Microsoft sites that fail to work or something in SeaMonkey. [23:56] DaemonFC I've created a collection of fake useragents for those. [23:56] matey given that i dont care per se [23:56] matey whats wrong with haskell? [23:56] DaemonFC Ranging from desktop and mobile Safari to Internet Explorer 11. [23:56] MinceR and then you'll believe that your code has no flaws, when in fact you merely made sure that your model has the same flaws [23:56] Ariadne MinceR: well yes :) [23:56] MinceR haskell is "pure", which makes it impractical [23:56] MinceR there are plenty of algorithms that depend on mutable state [23:57] matey like dove soap [23:57] *Now talking on #techrights [23:57] *mekkis (~mekkis@freenode-kvfq7t.1ga5.uqs5.772ejh.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] Ariadne going back to emulators, for a second [23:57] MinceR and having me translate them to a stateless algorithm only for the compiler to translate it again to a stateful algorithm is a waste of effort and resources [23:57] *schestowitz (~schestowi@freenode-i33.jp8.7132oi.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] Ariadne in rust, you can define a model for, say, a CPU [23:57] *rsheftel1435 (~rsheftel@freenode-4nq.hn3.1cipql.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] matey 100% pure (its only soap. its not for example, 1% candy mint) [23:57] *sbp (~sbp@freenode-m7i.q7q.b87eii.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] *rianne_ (~rianne@freenode-i33.jp8.7132oi.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@freenode-i33.jp8.7132oi.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] Ariadne and then check your implementation against it [23:57] *hvxgr (~wl2v_usrn@freenode-ong.pov.c33bnd.IP) has joined #techrights [23:57] *schestowitz has quit (Changing host) [23:57] *schestowitz (~schestowi@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #techrights [23:57] *schestowitz-TR2 has quit (Changing host) [23:57] *schestowitz-TR2 (~acer-box@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #techrights [23:57] *jkl (~jkl@freenode/user/jkl) has joined #techrights [23:57] Ariadne and know at compile time that your emulated CPU matches what you believe the CPU should be doing [23:58] *Noisytoot (~noisytoot@freenode/user/Noisytoot) has joined #techrights [23:58] matey its a breath soap, its a candy soap-- its two soaps in one [23:58] *schestowitz[TR] (~schestowi@freenode-hao0f9.am6e.nqgd.t29qgt.IP) has joined #techrights [23:58] *schestowitz[TR] has quit (Changing host) [23:58] *schestowitz[TR] (~schestowi@freenode/user/schestowitz) has joined #techrights [23:59] matey unless its a game console cpu [23:59] matey then you have to account for all the undocumented shit in there [23:59] Ariadne well, yes, but that's always part of the work of developing emulators :p [23:59] matey yeah i know :) [23:59] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [23:59] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)