●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 ●● ● Nov 25 [00:00] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX and proprietary software su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144728 [https://pleroma.site/objects/237513df-a239-4b2a-a378-87bf9eda2d2a] [00:02] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144730 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b12225c5-b8d8-4d2c-88aa-ef11a21a6114] [00:05] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 25/11/2020: Raspberry Pi 400 With Touchscreens, Animation Framework in GTK/GNOME http://techrights.org/2020/11/24/animation-framework-in-gtk/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW [https://pleroma.site/objects/52d2de4f-b3b4-4948-8e15-e8dd31af7795] [00:10] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: Trump's parting gift: soon a 9/11 per day (it'll be about 2,200 dead today) https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ [00:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.worldometers.info | United States Coronavirus: 12,945,925 Cases and 265,828 Deaths - Worldometer [00:12] schestowitz 853 new deaths in Italy today [00:12] schestowitz almost 1000 again [00:12] schestowitz the cost of reopening? [00:13] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LibreOffice 7.1 Office Suite Enters Beta, Promises a Plethora of Improvements su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144729 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b8d0186c-7bec-4d71-ad09-008bfe3ba1b3] [00:37] *chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [00:49] schestowitz anyone awake? seems like WINE is targeted by Microsoft now. ● Nov 25 [01:04] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Microsoft Moles Inside WINE Project? WINE Should Bring Windows Users to GNU/Linux, Not the Other Way Around. http://techrights.org/2020/11/24/redmond-and-wine/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/56536e93-2bbd-4371-88a0-6c018a404b0e] [01:31] oiaohm schestowitz: https://fdossena.com/?p=wined3d/index.frag wine releationship with windows has been wacky for a long time. [01:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fdossena.com | WineD3D For Windows - Federico Dossena [01:32] oiaohm Wine inside wsl2 is kinda to be expected as some point. [01:38] oiaohm schestowitz: the stupid part deal is mostly the funding is most likely to assist with getting wine to work in wsl2 so old windows games and programs that don't work on windows work by wine in wsl2. Remember wine libraries being used to make old windows programs work on newer windows is something that dates back to the early 2000s. [01:39] oiaohm reactos early primary taking libraries from wine were in fact the ones used application compadiblity fixes on Windows. [01:39] oiaohm History of wine and windows is a mixed mess. [01:39] oiaohm In someways I would love to see Microsoft directly fund wine so killing the legal issues. ● Nov 25 [02:00] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [02:00] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [02:10] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [02:10] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Nov 25 [03:06] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [03:48] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [03:48] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [03:58] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Nov 25 [04:00] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [04:12] *xvx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [04:34] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [04:35] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [04:37] *swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c) [04:44] vZS1 schestowitz: interesting [04:58] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [04:58] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [04:58] *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights ● Nov 25 [05:04] *rianne__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [05:04] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [05:05] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [05:06] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [05:34] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [05:34] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [05:36] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [05:37] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Nov 25 [06:32] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [06:32] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [06:32] *rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [06:32] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [06:51] *kingoffrance (~x@2601:681:8200:b890::e88d) has joined #techrights [06:59] *tr_guest|44945 (6d608856@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.109.96.136.86) has joined #techrights ● Nov 25 [07:00] *cryptrz (~Cryptrz@109.96.136.86) has joined #techrights [07:00] *tr_guest|44945 has quit (Client Quit) [07:11] *chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:200:655e:ef87:f909:8731) has joined #techrights [07:22] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144731 [https://pleroma.site/objects/04100fbe-d9f7-428d-89fc-41510f7cb71a] [07:28] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Making #JavaScript Suck Less http://techrights.org/2020/11/25/suckless-javascript/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/e47d1217-0553-400d-a3df-8d6c1ffd33cf] [07:57] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [07:58] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) ● Nov 25 [08:07] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [08:09] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [08:33] *notanamber (~luca@host-79-6-210-200.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #techrights [08:58] *GNUmoon2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) ● Nov 25 [09:02] vZS1 schestowitz: someone asked me an interesting question. They said "how do I prevent Ubuntu from smuggling snap onto my system?" The answer is `$ apt-mark hold snapd`. [09:03] vZS1 That's one you should put up in TR. A lot of people use Debian derivatives like Ubuntu so it's a good one to know. [09:04] schestowitz is that the biggest risk in ubuntu? [09:04] schestowitz some people install malware in Ubuntu [09:04] schestowitz even deliberately [09:04] schestowitz or add Microsoft PPAs [09:04] vZS1 From my POV, yes. Because it's blatant spyware. [09:04] vZS1 snapd runs as root [09:05] vZS1 So it can even export your PGP keys [09:05] vZS1 You don't know what it's doing [09:05] vZS1 It's a proprietary blob [09:05] vZS1 running as root [09:06] vZS1 Another few good tips [09:06] vZS1 `$ mount | grep snap` will show all the mounted stuff. [09:06] vZS1 Because some of those need to be unmounted before you you successfully purge snap from the system [09:07] vZS1 Uh [09:07] vZS1 Few more [09:08] vZS1 `$ for i in $(snap list | cut -d ' ' -f 1 | tail -n+2); do sudo snap remove --purge "${i}"; done` [09:09] vZS1 `$ sudo rm -rf /var/cache/snapd/` [09:09] schestowitz [09:05] It's a proprietary blob [09:09] schestowitz is it? [09:09] schestowitz I mean [09:09] vZS1 Hold on [09:09] schestowitz maybe developed on proprietary shithub or something [09:09] vZS1 Let me finish the scripts [09:09] schestowitz but... [09:10] vZS1 `$ sudo apt autoremove --purge snapd` [09:10] vZS1 `rm -fr ${HOME}/snap` [09:12] vZS1 @sche [09:12] vZS1 schestowitz: I looked it up. snap has GPLv3 client and proprietary server. [09:13] vZS1 Either way, running snap as root is stupid [09:14] vZS1 Someone asked me for help and I walked them through the whole process. Just wanted to share while it was still fresh in my head. [09:15] vZS1 Canonical are deliberately making it harder to use apt by removing debian packages from the repo [09:16] vZS1 In order to herd people toward snap [09:16] vZS1 apt is perfectly usable for even non-tech people [09:17] schestowitz I noticed that [09:17] vZS1 apt usage is on my list of topics to write about [09:17] schestowitz things that should be in aprt [09:17] schestowitz apt [09:17] schestowitz but are not [09:17] schestowitz BTW [09:17] vZS1 Yep [09:17] schestowitz a Brit who ran snap at Canonical left [09:17] schestowitz months ago [09:17] schestowitz popey [09:17] schestowitz mr, pope [09:17] schestowitz might want to research the cause [09:18] vZS1 Don't have the time myself [09:18] schestowitz alan pope, iirc [09:18] schestowitz common name [09:18] schestowitz but you can ask him directly [09:18] schestowitz and use the smell test/bs meter [09:19] schestowitz he knows the back end [09:19] vZS1 I've got to finish my RSS library and get back to writing my book [09:20] schestowitz if it's a high enough priority, you will find time for it [09:20] vZS1 Not a high enough priority rn [09:20] schestowitz when people say "don't have time" they usually mean (code for) "not important enough to me" [09:21] schestowitz "mom died" [09:21] schestowitz "sorry, ain't got da time, man" [09:21] vZS1 Well. I did say it's not a high enough priority lol [09:21] schestowitz it's a priority thing, anything can "have the time" given some circumstances [09:21] schestowitz I think snap is not a high-risk thing [09:22] schestowitz compared to a lot of other things [09:22] schestowitz inc. the thing people install VIA snapd [09:22] schestowitz snapd is a ramp [09:22] schestowitz for bad stuff [09:22] schestowitz "apps" [09:22] vZS1 The telemetry in snapd is spyware [09:22] schestowitz but the apps are the greater evil, the vector is their facilitator [09:22] schestowitz snap brings people spotify, skype etc [09:22] vZS1 Discord [09:22] schestowitz that's vastly worse spyware [09:23] schestowitz of companies that do spying as a business, in a foreign land [09:24] vZS1 Btw [09:24] vZS1 KDE GitLab is down [09:24] vZS1 It seems [09:25] vZS1 I wanted to look into Falkon and Konqueror [09:25] vZS1 The repos [09:25] vZS1 But I can't reach invent.kde.org [09:25] vZS1 Can you give it a look? [09:31] vZS1 Just came back up it seems [09:31] schestowitz WTF!!! [09:31] schestowitz x https://ubuntu.com/download [09:31] schestowitz # no direct links to downloads, promotes WeaSeL instead [09:31] schestowitz look at this page !! [09:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Get Ubuntu | Download | Ubuntu [09:37] vZS1 Let's take a look [09:39] vZS1 I see "Ubuntu Desktop" right at the top [09:39] schestowitz vZS1: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/frequent-security-alerts-on-mozilla-4175685718/ [09:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxquestions.org | frequent security alerts on Mozilla [09:39] schestowitz someone just sent me this [09:39] schestowitz vZS1: re ubuntu https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19523152 [09:39] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Lots of discussions this morning in #techrights about what #canonical does with Snaps these days. And no, it's not #freesw -- #proprietarySoftware at the back end and they're herding users towards that. #ubuntu is also partly developed on #microsoft servers now. [09:40] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [09:40] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [09:41] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [09:43] vZS1 I saw the firefox-esr security updates in my Debian Security RSS feed [09:43] vZS1 They happen quite frequently [09:43] vZS1 Nothing new [09:43] schestowitz brb need to do workout [09:43] vZS1 I'm heading odd [09:43] vZS1 off* [09:43] vZS1 enjoy yer workout [09:43] schestowitz ty [09:55] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: May we live long and die out | http://vhemt.org/) ● Nov 25 [10:22] schestowitz done [10:22] schestowitz lockdown makes a lot of people [10:22] schestowitz not move [10:23] schestowitz and that itself is also a health risk/factor ● Nov 25 [11:03] schestowitz got some OSI views today [11:03] schestowitz and help [11:03] schestowitz > The page seems to contain 8 new videos in total, including the one we linked/embedded already. Maybe we can do one post about each [11:03] schestowitz Sounds good if you have the time. I can review and add commentary. [11:09] schestowitz " [11:09] schestowitz SCaLE 15x in 2017, I think... not 2016. [11:09] schestowitz Meeting people irl was an eye opener! :) [11:09] schestowitz At SCaLE 2016, I attended the law track, where I met a Lawyer claiming to be a Free and Open Source Lawyer... who didn't know the difference. We did explain the difference to him during happy hour. [11:09] schestowitz Although IANAL, I knew more than the lawyers present who did not have the basic understanding of copyright - Example, they were arguing a moot point because they did not have basic knowledge of functional v speech. [11:09] schestowitz I hope I can find these loopholes. I live for loopholes... will get back to you. [11:09] schestowitz Attached - Bruce Perens early 2020 making comments re OSI on Linkedin. [11:09] schestowitz " [11:14] oiaohm schestowitz: the Ubuntu snap issue is a lot more horrible than just disable snapd. https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/call-for-testing-chromium-browser-deb-to-snap-transition/11179 started in 2019 where they started moving different applications into snap that you have installed by apt and the result is you want the newest version have to install snap. [11:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-discourse.ubuntu.com | Call for testing: chromium-browser deb to snap transition - Desktop - Ubuntu Community Hub [11:15] oiaohm Lot of ways this is you don't want snap don't run ubuntu and if using something like debian and then disable snapd from being able to be installed by opps. [11:16] oiaohm Disable snapd with ubuntu can equal be stuck on old out of date security flawed browser or equal. [11:32] *chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) ● Nov 25 [12:06] *vZS1 has quit (Quit: Quit) [12:07] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [12:07] *vZS1 has quit (Client Quit) [12:07] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [12:10] *vZS1 has quit (Client Quit) [12:10] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [12:11] *vZS1 has quit (Client Quit) [12:11] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [12:14] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [12:18] *xvx (~xvx@185.48.63.110) has joined #techrights [12:28] *chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:200:655e:ef87:f909:8731) has joined #techrights [12:31] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Raspberry Pi 4 V3DV graphics driver achieves Vulkan 1.0 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143199#comment-27242 [https://pleroma.site/objects/07b62c5a-f90d-4c6e-9a87-9f90f6dfbeee] [12:33] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Meet DevTerm: An Open Source Portable Linux Terminal For Developers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144732 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e0dfb61b-5bc4-4fc3-aace-3305a93fd708] [12:35] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Assign Actions To Touchpad Gestures On Linux With Touchegg su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144733 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0934ca98-b751-4b7c-8119-8a5987c2aa34] [12:51] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [12:52] oiaohm http://boginjr.com/it/sw/dev/vinyl-boot/ darn this is wacky. [12:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-boginjr.com | Booting from a vinyl record BOGIN, JR. [12:57] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Ubuntu maker wants app developers to stop worrying too much about #security su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144734 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines [https://pleroma.site/objects/1581e1d2-0679-4f8c-bbe9-caf6f6fa78c2] [12:58] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144735 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0e2cb056-54f4-4f3a-a191-49b84958155a] ● Nov 25 [13:00] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: LibreOffice 7.1 - Top New Features and Release Dates su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144736 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d494a109-0585-44cb-bab8-54c28e93fc0f] [13:00] schestowitz oiaohm: neat [13:16] schestowitz https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries [13:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.worldometers.info | Coronavirus Update (Live): 60,250,141 Cases and 1,417,987 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer [13:16] schestowitz 43 million positives [13:38] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [13:40] MinceR https://nitter.net/WolfieChristl/status/1331221942850949121 [13:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net | Wolfie Christl (@WolfieChristl): "Esoteric metrics based on analyzing extensive data about employee activities has been mostly the domain of fringe software vendors. Now it's built into MS 365. A new feature to calculate 'productivity scores' turns Microsoft 365 into an full-fledged workplace surveillance tool:" | nitter [13:41] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [13:45] MinceR https://xkcd.com/2210/ [13:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: College Athletes [13:48] kingoffrance i would dispute that use of "esoteric" as surely they only think the scores mean something, noone actually understands them :) [13:49] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144737 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5db9bbe9-b875-414d-a55f-6b88d4fb4849] [13:54] MinceR maybe their friends at the NSA understand the scores ● Nov 25 [14:07] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/698236.jpg [14:08] DaemonFC[m] schestowitz Dad started in on the whole coronavirus is a one world government conspiracy. [14:08] DaemonFC[m] The WHO released it and Trump was protecting us and all that. [14:08] DaemonFC[m] I told him, "Yeah yeah yeah. Feliz Nazi Dud to you too.". [14:10] schestowitz heard this one before [14:10] schestowitz tell him the vaccines will protect him from slient jesus [14:10] MinceR :D [14:10] schestowitz or the aliens [14:20] *DaemonFC[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/jNUSHAdUXOYeemXxoeFbtSKq/message.txt > [14:21] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [14:22] DaemonFC[m] I've gotten a lot saltier lately with him. [14:23] DaemonFC[m] You know, my dad's BMI still wouldn't be terrific if he was five inches taller. [14:23] DaemonFC[m] At least not the last time I saw him. [14:24] DaemonFC[m] He's always done extremely bizarre things with foods, like it can never be sweet enough. [14:24] DaemonFC[m] He used to mix Karo syrup with crunchy peanut butter, in a coffee mug, and then spoon it onto Ritz crackers. [14:25] DaemonFC[m] Then yell at me when it turned into fossilized amber overnight and I threw out the mugs. [14:26] DaemonFC[m] Then there was the chocolate cake with an entire jar of grape jelly. In his defense, a "low fat chocolate cake". [14:26] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [14:27] DaemonFC[m] They say to be a perfect Nazi, you must be a blond man like Hitler, slim like Gring, and tall like Goebbels. [14:29] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: I suppose we should have seen this coming in many ways. [14:29] vZS1 Instructions unclear, commenced Anschluss. [14:29] DaemonFC[m] My favorite Bush speech included "We can no longer rely on the oceans to protect us from terrorists.". [14:30] vZS1 I read "Bush" as "British". Still works [14:30] DaemonFC[m] The far right always ignore domestic terrorists because 99 times out of 100 they're Republicans. [14:30] DaemonFC[m] Even if you did keep all of the Muslims out, still doesn't work, you know. [14:31] DaemonFC[m] We had lots of terrorists and very few were Islamic ones. [14:31] DaemonFC[m] Most of them were anti-government kooks and religious cults. [14:31] DaemonFC[m] You know, like McVeigh and David Koresh. [14:32] DaemonFC[m] By the time the federal government did respond to the Branch Davidian compound it turned into a total disaster that just gave the far right even more fodder to radicalize people with. [14:33] DaemonFC[m] Because the tear gas that they tried to flush them out with went up in flames and killed all of them including the children. [14:33] DaemonFC[m] That's one of the reasons McVeigh said he blew up the federal building over. [14:34] DaemonFC[m] And it continued to inspire nutcases, like that guy that flew the plane into the IRS building several years ago. [14:34] DaemonFC[m] Those 14 people that were going to kidnap and murder two state governors were cut from the same cloth. [14:35] DaemonFC[m] The Coronavirus shutdown is a big recruiting tool for the far right violent groups because they had already had their ability to work and earn a paycheck stolen from them, oddly by far right policies that they're too dumb to comprehend. [14:35] DaemonFC[m] And now with this shutdown on top of it all. [14:37] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/698203.jpg [14:40] *vZS1 has quit (Quit: Quit) [14:40] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [14:42] superkuh Sure that's not a Voodoo 6? [14:43] XRevan86 Is it compatible with water cooling? [14:44] DaemonFC[m] Mom admits it herself that there's still all kinds of job openings in the area she lives in because all of the people around her are strung out on drugs and don't want to work. [14:44] DaemonFC[m] Apparently between benders, they like to blame Mexicans because sure why not. [14:45] MinceR voodoo's dead [14:46] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, NVidia bought them out for patents and then kept on churning out their own shittier cards until they were powerful enough to brute force their way past OpenGL, which was poorly made and full of useless shit and self-contradicting features and specs. [14:46] DaemonFC[m] The OpenGL nightmare went on for way too long. [14:47] MinceR still not as poorly made as the gaming-only APIs or direct3d [14:47] DaemonFC[m] Microsoft was there for years in the beginning to pollute and sabotage it, and try to hijack it with Windows-only features. [14:47] DaemonFC[m] Then when that mostly went splat, they left and did DirectX. [14:47] DaemonFC[m] Direct3d was actually further along in some ways for several years after the split. [14:48] DaemonFC[m] After OpenGL 3.0 was finalized there was no longer any clear advantage for Direct3d except that Microsoft forced all the vendors to use the same implementation of Direct3d. [14:48] DaemonFC[m] Leading to OpenGL performance that varied wildly, implementations with their own quirks and level of conformance to the standard, etc. [14:49] DaemonFC[m] When id Software did some games with OpenGL, it really showed. [14:49] DaemonFC[m] For starters, they said just don't use Intel at all. [14:50] DaemonFC[m] And then they started optimizing it for NVidia's implementation, so some things looked wrong on ATI and didn't perform well. [14:52] DaemonFC[m] At the time, Intel graphics were so bad, MinceR, that you could run Doom 3 on it, but it looked like a slideshow even at the low setting sometimes, and almost as bad as those hacks that got it running on a Voodoo card. [14:54] MinceR yeah, it really showed [14:54] MinceR they got some features well ahead of direct3d [14:54] MinceR and their code was portable [14:55] MinceR but who cares about that, when you can instead serve the redmond mafia? [14:55] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [14:56] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [14:57] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: big problem with opengl was that the khronos conformance test suite for a long time was NDA only. This is different now with vulkan and the fact the test suite for opengl was finally released. [14:57] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, I noticed a lot of work going on in Mesa to update and conform to the test cases. [14:58] oiaohm Testsuite now means if some vendor claims they support something third party can run the test suite and go hey don't pull my leg you don't your drivers are defective fix them. [14:58] DaemonFC[m] The test cases themselves seemed to be anywhere from slightly wrong to incredibly wrong previously. [14:58] *esaym153 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [14:58] *esaym153 (~esaym153@net153.net) has joined #techrights [14:59] DaemonFC[m] Their OpenGL implementation improved a lot and before, it was like, almost reverse engineered, and even with Intel and AMD contributing to it. [14:59] DaemonFC[m] I'm certain they had the documentation. [14:59] *psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrights ● Nov 25 [15:00] oiaohm Large sections of the Opengl documentation use to be NDA as well. [15:00] DaemonFC[m] Developers of everything from video games to web browsers putting quirks in their program to handle Mesa drivers, or just blacklisting. [15:00] oiaohm Mesa3d was doing a lot of reversing in places and it downright showed. [15:00] oiaohm Also when you are refersing off closed source that are not following specifications as well you are kind of screwed. [15:01] MinceR (cat) https://ircz.de/p/20080832 [15:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4810513) [15:04] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: I'm really glad that The Handmaid's Tale went there and did a backstory in season 2 with flashbacks about the fall of the US government. [15:05] DaemonFC[m] It was Trumpism and the "enforcers" who would go on to become "Guardians" were ICE. [15:05] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [15:05] DaemonFC[m] Almost nailed what was coming if this election had gone the other way, really. [15:07] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: It was almost too bizarre. Years before the Coronavirus. Years before Trump had ICE out attacking and kidnapping Americans. [15:08] DaemonFC[m] Years before dozens of far-right terrorists with lots of pro-Trump stuff on their social media were rounded up for trying to do a decapitation strike on the governments of Michigan and Virginia. [15:08] *esaym153 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [15:09] DaemonFC[m] Here's this story about how the US economy failed, a plague sweeps the country, the birth rate crashed, and a far-right terrorist group is emboldened to go further than Trumpism and just launch a decap strike on the federal government and take over. [15:09] *esaym153 (~esaym153@net153.net) has joined #techrights [15:10] superkuh Don't worry. The feds will keep running the assassination program (disposition matrix) within the executive no matter who's in charge. [15:10] superkuh $nottrump is just getting us there a tiny bit slower. [15:11] DaemonFC[m] Well, it speaks to the dangers of playing to these people to get into power. [15:11] DaemonFC[m] At some point they go "This guy isn't doing enough so let's just kill all of them.". [15:11] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [15:11] DaemonFC[m] And what happened to the US in The Handmaid's Tale was sort of like the Iranian Revolution. [15:12] DaemonFC[m] In the Iranian Revolution, you had a lot of extremists who didn't really like the secular and mostly Free government they lived under. [15:13] DaemonFC[m] So they launched a decapitation strike and quickly overthrew it and took over before the government could react. And by the time they did, they had a lot of support (or at least weak resistance) from the government itself. The police, the military... [15:13] DaemonFC[m] That's what's going on in the US. [15:13] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [15:13] DaemonFC[m] The police and the military are really sympathetic and oftentimes members of these terrorist cells that are pretty much "sleeping" right now. [15:14] schestowitz if they, they leave [15:14] DaemonFC[m] And maybe what we saw in Michigan was one of them "activating" a little too soon and too clumsily. [15:14] schestowitz the force is too full of people who gross em out [15:15] schestowitz "former cop"=have arms, trained to kill [15:15] DaemonFC[m] I think there's a huge division in the military right now. [15:15] schestowitz "veteran"= saw many dead, another one is no big deal [15:15] DaemonFC[m] A lot of them are sympathetic to Trump but are not going to keep following his orders to the extremes necessary to keep him in office, and certainly not after his term expires. [15:15] oiaohm Former cop depends on what country. [15:15] oiaohm Not all are trained to kill. [15:16] DaemonFC[m] Trump's stance towards Americans who were just standing there holding signs was to launch chemical weapons attacks and blow them over with a helicopter, like enemy soldiers. [15:16] DaemonFC[m] This was terrible, and must never be accepted. [15:17] DaemonFC[m] People started comparing Mark Esper to Trump's Chemical Ali after that. [15:17] DaemonFC[m] But even Esper didn't go as far as Trump wanted and Trump was very irritated and ultimately fired him for that. [15:18] oiaohm schestowitz: UK police officer it is possible to enter the force there serve to retirment and only trained and used baton and ultra bright torch. [15:19] oiaohm So not trained to kill. But still trained enough to make you wish you had not got on the wrong side of them. [15:20] CrystalMath BLM terrorists destroyed the stores of innocent black business owners [15:20] CrystalMath that must never be accepted [15:21] DaemonFC[m] 800,000 Americans filed an initial unemployment claim last week. [15:21] *superkuh (~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh) has left #techrights ("the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer") [15:21] DaemonFC[m] In an onslaught of Real Economy collapse that has been unrelenting since March. [15:21] CrystalMath i think Trump didn't do enough to protect people from BLM [15:22] DaemonFC[m] If Illinois hadn't enacted a higher minimum wage that is phasing in, I suspect Walmart would be tempted to start cutting wages like Burger King took the opportunity to do in states where it was legal, right off the bat. [15:22] DaemonFC[m] Then even the people who survived the firings wouldn't make nearly enough to pay their bills. [15:24] DaemonFC[m] The economy is becoming more lopsided than it has ever been, with people who can work from home seemingly unaffected in their buying power, whereas companies who have workers who have to show up in person to do actual labor are taking this out on employees who don't make much money to begin with. [15:24] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [15:25] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [15:27] DaemonFC[m] We also need to get past this nonsense that Biden will somehow be better for the MAFIAA than Trump, who gave them an entire new Chapter of his NAFTA double down. [15:27] CrystalMath perhaps they're the same as far as that is concerned [15:29] DaemonFC[m] It's still going to be bad (use a good VPN with Wireguard support), but Trump already did via "trade treaty" what SOPA and PIPA set out to do, and he actually got it done with very little backlash as part of a deal that also killed blue collar union jobs and set record farm bankruptcies. [15:30] CrystalMath i know, i was angry about that one [15:32] CrystalMath however, democrats liked USMCA too [15:32] *DaemonFC[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/hOWhOltgykzxLBfSidymPpwp/message.txt > [15:33] DaemonFC[m] ... [15:33] DaemonFC[m] Maybe that's why mom likes Trump so much, schestowitz [15:33] DaemonFC[m] All three of her husbands have been abusive in various ways. [15:34] CrystalMath yeah but if you think about it, the public has always been more scared of Trump than was justified [15:34] DaemonFC[m] My dad is a narcissistic control freak, Brian would beat her so badly she had to wear Tammy Faye Baker makeup so thick that it would crack if she smiled, and then Dave had at least 7 sex partners outside of their marriage. [15:34] CrystalMath ultimately most of the things people feared never happened [15:34] DaemonFC[m] If that's what she marries, the pump was already primed to accept a president like that. [15:35] CrystalMath i on the other hand expected somewhat better from Trump, idk [15:36] CrystalMath Trump is the promise of something different [15:36] CrystalMath which didn't happen, either [15:36] CrystalMath even though it's necessary [15:37] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144738 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2bdd4b6d-eb02-470a-b0cb-2c9512e37939] [15:37] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/697475.png [15:38] CrystalMath MinceR: sorta right, but it's really nasty how the megacorps pushed all the blame onto individuals despite being the greatest polluters that continued to do so throughout [15:39] MinceR yeah [15:39] MinceR and they're practically ignoring everything except personal transportation [15:39] MinceR as if ships or heating of homes produced zero pollution [15:40] CrystalMath or factories [15:43] kingoffrance s/nasty/business as usual/ [15:44] CrystalMath honestly, as a cure for the planet, COVID-19 has been little more than placebo [15:46] kingoffrance its like schestowitz has said about certain people worried about population ..they exempt themselves first, then rules for everyone else [15:46] kingoffrance thats totally normal pattern for many things [15:46] schestowitz true [15:47] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/01/26/advocates-of-population-control/ [15:47] schestowitz too many people [15:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Opinion: If You Advocate Population Control and You Are Yourself Doubling in One Single Generation, Then You Might be Hypocritical | Techrights [15:47] schestowitz ignore my 4 kids [15:48] kingoffrance ppl have said that also with u.s. corps from 1800s and before...grandfathered in before anti-trust laws to apply to everyone else [15:48] schestowitz MinceR: nice cartoon [15:49] DaemonFC[m] Well, now the Governor of California has egg all over his face. [15:49] schestowitz [15:19] So not trained to kill. But still trained enough to make you wish you had not got on the wrong side of them. [15:49] DaemonFC[m] First for ignoring his own rules to go eat a dinner (mass gathering, no masks, indoors), and now potentially (I hope.) having the Coronavirus. [15:49] kingoffrance perhaps because no ex post facto laws too [15:49] schestowitz I like how cops here don't have firearms [15:49] schestowitz except few [15:49] DaemonFC[m] And I say I hope he gets sick because he deserves to. [15:49] schestowitz I feel SAFER [15:50] DaemonFC[m] If he can't set a good example, he can at least show the public what happens to people who don't follow these guidelines. [15:51] DaemonFC[m] Even though Mandy has to go to work every day, neither one of us has gotten this as far as I am aware, even over the last 9 months of what's been going on in Illinois. [15:51] DaemonFC[m] Even with this enormous burden that the governor has placed on us, per capita we're doing no better than Indiana, which has few restrictions other than a mask order. [15:52] DaemonFC[m] That's the thing. You order the restaurants closed, and idle hands are the devil's workshop, so they go throw house parties or something. [15:52] DaemonFC[m] Same shit happens. [15:53] DaemonFC[m] Meanwhile, mass destruction of the economy. [15:53] DaemonFC[m] People are good at working around systems, and laws are just another system to work around. [15:54] DaemonFC[m] It's not only possible to subvert the law while following it, it's often amusing to do so. [15:54] DaemonFC[m] Because then you're getting one over on the assholes in charge, they can't do anything about it except watch, and you get the same thing accomplished. [15:56] schestowitz DaemonFC[m]: re your mom [15:56] schestowitz tell her many people end up using drugs as a result of unemployment or sell drugs BECAUSE they cannot find another job [15:57] DaemonFC[m] A psychiatrist could build a career on her. But my grandmother would be more interesting, if they noticed. [15:57] schestowitz it's a cause-effect reversal going on in her mind [15:57] schestowitz it's victim-blaming basically [15:57] DaemonFC[m] Even when unemployment in Indiana dropped to 2%, there were drugs. [15:57] schestowitz or dehumanising those whom she's patronising [15:58] schestowitz some drugs can motivate people to work harder [15:58] schestowitz even legit jobs [15:58] schestowitz many in the US are on legal drugs [15:58] schestowitz or various sorts [15:58] schestowitz not just so-called antidepressants [15:58] schestowitz the list is long [15:58] schestowitz what she means by "Drugs" is some particular kind of them [15:58] schestowitz like she's on a lot of drugs too [15:58] schestowitz to keep herself alive [15:59] schestowitz *likely [15:59] schestowitz when they get to 80 and higher they have a whole 'cocktail' of drugs [15:59] schestowitz just to buy time ● Nov 25 [16:00] MinceR https://hugelolcdn.com/i/697446.jpg [16:01] CrystalMath schestowitz: i have zero kids [16:02] DaemonFC[m] She said "Don't ptronize me." one day and I shot back, "It's ptronize.". [16:04] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: Which one is the and which one is the diphthong? [16:05] DaemonFC[m] The first one would be "He patronizes Walmart quite often.". [16:05] DaemonFC[m] Like "does business with". [16:05] DaemonFC[m] The second one is "Pretending to be kind and helpful, but really being condescending to someone.". [16:06] DaemonFC[m] So, by correcting her, I was patronizing her again by explaining the pronunciation in the context she was using the word. [16:07] DaemonFC[m] So whenever someone says that and uses the word wrong, you have the opportunity to insult them again by correcting them and smiling. [16:07] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: This is literally the first time anyone made that pronunciation distinction. [16:07] DaemonFC[m] It's subtle, really. [16:07] DaemonFC[m] Both the variation of the word and the insult. [16:07] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: Do you see a subtle difference between missail and missl? [16:08] DaemonFC[m] I'm sure MinceR approves. [16:08] XRevan86 or between dahta and deita [16:08] MinceR :) [16:10] DaemonFC[m] I really like insulting people when it can be weaponized. Like, it catches them off guard and softens them up psychologically so they start making mistakes. [16:10] XRevan86 A subtle tomeito, tomahto kind of difference there. [16:10] DaemonFC[m] It's harder to press on with an attack when you take a step back to doubt yourself and start double checking things. [16:12] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: Works as great as "excuse me, it's spelt "metre", thank you very much" [16:14] XRevan86 "it's octopodes" [16:14] MinceR only in certain dialects of english [16:14] MinceR e.g. in us english, it's "meter" [16:14] DaemonFC[m] https://blabbermouth.herokuapp.com/news/twisted-sisters-dee-snider-explains-why-were-not-gonna-take-it-is-right-song-for-donald-trump/ [16:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blabbermouth.herokuapp.com | Twisted Sister's Dee Snider Explains Why 'We're Not Gonna Take It' Is Right Song For Donald Trump - Blabbermouth.net [16:14] DaemonFC[m] Trump managed to troll himself. [16:15] XRevan86 MinceR: Are you sure? It would've been such a great DaemonFC-esque insult otherwise. [16:15] MinceR yes [16:16] XRevan86 MinceR: Maybe there's a subtle difference. [16:16] MinceR https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meter#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/metre#English [16:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | meter - Wiktionary [16:16] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | metre - Wiktionary [16:16] DaemonFC[m] Not to be confused with Metra. [16:16] MinceR in some senses there is [16:16] MinceR but not in the sense of the SI unit :> [16:16] DaemonFC[m] The most popular method of taxpayer-financed suicide in the state of Illinois. [16:16] XRevan86 A kilometre is when you walk and kilometer when you run [16:16] *Mogzagain (~Mogzagain@185.192.69.98) has joined #techrights [16:16] Mogzagain Hi guys! [16:17] DaemonFC[m] XRevan86: And when a Metra train runs over someone you call that a killermetra. [16:17] Mogzagain I've just today seen Figosdev's letter. Had been ill for a few days, so apologies to him for the delay. [16:17] DaemonFC[m] MinceR: :) [16:17] Mogzagain Enjoyed reading his response, and have drafted a letter in response. Is Roy around? Just to ask where I can forward my response. [16:18] schestowitz hi, Mogzagain [16:18] Mogzagain Hi Roy :-) [16:18] *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [16:18] XRevan86 MinceR: I just realised I should've gone for the pronunciation differences: kilmetre and kilomtre. [16:18] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Sysmon A Graphical System Activity Monitor for Linux su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144740 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6e3c482b-57e2-417c-bd88-89c48bf9095c] [16:19] Mogzagain Can I send it to you, Roy? There are parts of it I wouldn't want publishing, only because I'm asking Figosdev some questions about some ideas and he shouldn't be put on the spot, but if you wanted to publish some parts, that would be okay. [16:20] Mogzagain And incase anyone else reading bits would find any ideas helpful. [16:20] XRevan86 MinceR: How ridiculous can I get before you realise I'm being extremely sarcastic? %) [16:20] MinceR extremely [16:20] DaemonFC[m] I appreciate how The Handmaid's Tale finally gave Aunt Lydia a backstory. [16:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: CLI, Tristam Island, GamerOS and Much More su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144741 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #News [https://pleroma.site/objects/6d33ddef-40fe-4f26-a877-e3635265fa43] [16:21] Mogzagain Or give it a read and see if you and figosdev think it's useful in entirety anyway. [16:21] DaemonFC[m] About how she was a nice teacher always looking out for children and eventually morphed into a Collaborator. [16:21] schestowitz [16:19] Can I send it to you, Roy? There are parts of it I wouldn't want publishing, only because I'm asking Figosdev some questions about some ideas and he shouldn't be put on the spot, but if you wanted to publish some parts, that would be okay. [16:21] schestowitz yes, just wait pls [16:21] schestowitz I am in the middle of something [16:21] Mogzagain okay [16:22] Mogzagain no problem [16:22] schestowitz will catch up in a mo [16:23] schestowitz OK, you say you have a response [16:23] schestowitz by email or pastebin etc? [16:23] XRevan86 The subtle difference: a kilomtre is when one needs to walk a distance to meet her and a kilmetre is when one already met her and needs to walk back. [16:23] schestowitz I can publish later today [16:23] Mogzagain but I'd want figosdev to have the choice about what's okay to publish [16:23] Mogzagain nothing bad, I just don't want him feeling put on the spot [16:23] XRevan86 Don't confuse the two. [16:24] Mogzagain can I email it? [16:24] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kubuntu 20.04 LTS Review: The Familiar Operating System su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144739 [https://pleroma.site/objects/73125490-8866-4822-adcc-02023d93c8ad] [16:25] Mogzagain looking for an email address, lol [16:26] schestowitz roy at schestowitz com [16:26] Mogzagain okay, thanks. will do that now. give it a read and let me know, and as long as figosdev is okay with it too [16:27] schestowitz he's thick-skinned [16:27] schestowitz passing it for reviews through 3 peers would be hardening the editing chore [16:27] schestowitz he can follow up on yours [16:27] schestowitz he also reads this channel's logs every day [16:28] schestowitz they're published as html, log, ipfs html and ipfs ra [16:28] schestowitz *raw [16:28] Mogzagain great, okay [16:28] Mogzagain sending it now [16:28] schestowitz ty [16:28] Mogzagain all done! [16:28] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: I think that the main actual difference may be just how enunciated the word is. [16:29] schestowitz Mogzagain: give me an hour at most [16:30] Mogzagain no problem; that's great. I've just had your email acknowledgement come through, so I know it's reached you. Will toddle off for now, and chat later. Thanks. [16:31] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #myMPD standalone and lightweight web-based MPD client su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144742 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ca1c0c15-2c26-44eb-9556-64df12f095ae] [16:31] *Mogzagain has quit (Quit: Leaving) [16:37] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144743 [https://pleroma.site/objects/829c0e3b-a6b6-4089-9f45-841b375e3a82] [16:44] *schestowitz words on the article [16:44] schestowitz (letter rather) [16:48] scientes XRevan86, can you find me that 3eyes video that is cheerful (not the drinking tunes) [16:48] scientes with his guitar [16:49] XRevan86 scientes: I assume you mean Vysotsky [16:50] XRevan86 scientes: Maybe this: https://3ears.com/media/1348 [16:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-3ears - learn languages with interactive transcript ● Nov 25 [17:02] scientes XRevan86 yeah, thats one [17:03] scientes XRevan86, did you ever notice that in the Russia FIFA world cup video they do the russian flag horizontally? [17:03] scientes It lead me to confuse it with a French flag [17:04] *XRevan86 didn't see that. [17:04] XRevan86 the FIFA world cup that is [17:05] scientes XRevan86, the video, or the sporting event? [17:05] XRevan86 scientes: everything [17:06] scientes https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fifa+world+cup+song+russia [17:06] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.youtube.com | NO TITLE [17:06] scientes looks like a french flag cause they screwed up the virtical vs horizontal scan [17:06] scientes but fresh is blue, white, red [17:06] scientes not white, blue, red [17:06] scientes *French [17:09] scientes XRevan86, did you ever go to the Dovstoevsky museum in St. Petersberg? [17:09] *scientes asked you that before [17:13] *inky (~inky@141.136.77.129) has joined #techrights [17:38] MinceR (cat) (no audio) https://i.imgur.com/SLAbOCZ.mp4 [17:38] DaemonFC[m] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201124/11503545766/will-parler-users-treat-glitch-that-hid-georgia-election-content-same-way-they-treated-twitter-glitch.shtml [17:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Will Parler Users Treat Its 'Glitch' That Hid Georgia Election Content The Same Way They Treated A Twitter Glitch? | Techdirt [17:38] DaemonFC[m] I've written in my own name sometimes. [17:39] DaemonFC[m] I voted for "Richard Matthew Stallman" to run the Chicago Public Library. [17:45] schestowitz curously enough [17:45] schestowitz when you search for "Richard Stallman" [17:46] schestowitz you get quite a few results about US public libraries [17:46] schestowitz I never got to the bottom of why [17:46] DaemonFC[m] I was protesting their promotion of Windows, Overdrive, and Makerbots. [17:47] DaemonFC[m] Interesting that the Republic of Gilead in The Handmaid's Tale is so pro-environment. [17:48] DaemonFC[m] Real life Christians don't really care because they figure the world is ending anyway, but when you get to the top levels of Gilead's government you find out that their High Chancellor is actually a bisexual and most of the men leading the place are wrapped up in prostitution, drinking, gambling.... [17:49] DaemonFC[m] The whole Christian Theocracy thing is a front to scare the hell out of people and rule by intimidation. [17:50] DaemonFC[m] https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/25/donald-trump-campaign-michigan-election-hearing/6419717002/ [17:50] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.freep.com | Trump camp says Michigan election hearing next week; lawmakers say no ● Nov 25 [18:02] *davisr_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:03] *davisr_ (davisr@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/davisr) has joined #techrights [18:04] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/inoculate [18:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Inoculate [18:27] vZS1 Mogzagain: try FreeBSD. It's easy to use. Great handbook. No systemd or spyware in default install. [18:27] vZS1 Package manager works more or less like apt. [18:29] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144745 [https://pleroma.site/objects/10503ed2-e826-4fc3-9f72-06879fb8836c] [18:29] vZS1 Big repository of packages and drivers [18:31] schestowitz he lft [18:31] schestowitz left [18:32] vZS1 Might see in the logs [18:35] schestowitz yup [18:39] vZS1 I found a browser called Palemoon [18:39] vZS1 It is similar enough to Firefox to be comfortable to use [18:39] vZS1 Similar settings layout and key bindings [18:40] vZS1 Not on ShitHub either [18:40] vZS1 They develop on self-hosted Gitea [18:40] vZS1 I've got IPFS links for the binary with the signature, for GNU/Linux, if anyone is interested [18:42] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144746 [https://pleroma.site/objects/944d5f0e-4de0-4b44-bf4c-99da25f4f8e1] [18:48] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming/Development Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144747 [https://pleroma.site/objects/02f05bfb-abaa-4788-a116-f45b8bc95f6c] [18:53] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144748 [https://pleroma.site/objects/75c82481-cef2-490c-804c-8c1aef65a222] [18:57] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/23/tech/zoom-founder-eric-yuan-risk-takers/index.html [18:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Everyone you know uses Zoom. That wasn't always the plan for founder Eric Yuan - CNN [18:57] DaemonFC[m] I've been avoiding it. [18:57] DaemonFC[m] I requested a phone call for my doctor's appointment next month. [18:58] MinceR freebsd has a CoC so it doesn't have much of a future [18:58] MinceR also, it's controlled by crApple and microshit ● Nov 25 [19:00] *Mogzagain (~Mogzagain@185.192.69.98) has joined #techrights [19:01] Mogzagain hi again, and thank you for the letter being published ... the parts that you highlighted were great, too, so thanks for that. [19:02] schestowitz [18:27] Mogzagain: try FreeBSD. It's easy to use. Great handbook. No systemd or spyware in default install. [19:02] schestowitz [18:27] Package manager works more or less like apt. [19:02] schestowitz [18:29] Big repository of packages and drivers [19:02] MinceR 25 195829 <@MinceR> freebsd has a CoC so it doesn't have much of a future [19:02] MinceR 25 195836 <@MinceR> also, it's controlled by crApple and microshit [19:03] DaemonFC[m] System76 having open source firmware fixes a lot of problems, really. [19:03] DaemonFC[m] Not the least of which are the unfixable bugs, sabotage, and "secure boot". [19:03] Mogzagain that sounds very interesting, Roy, but what's this about crApple and micropoop? [19:04] schestowitz Mogzagain: ^ [19:04] *xvx has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [19:04] schestowitz MinceR: ^ [19:04] DaemonFC[m] uEFI should only be a payload option that works like a BIOS CSM, and only because it was adopted by the industry, which never asks anyone what they want because it doesn't care. [19:05] MinceR most of the freebsd "users" i've encountered were card-carrying microshit/crApple fanboys looking for "open source" street cred [19:05] Mogzagain they sound delightful, lol [19:05] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 25/11/2020: GamerOS and Biden Transition in Motion http://techrights.org/2020/11/25/gameros/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/a16f8008-6069-40a6-9e12-d3b4cf246e0a] [19:05] MinceR they didn't even really use freebsd afaict [19:06] Mogzagain so they were just telling everyone they're the cool freebsd kids, but aren't involved in any packaging or decisions? [19:06] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [19:06] Mogzagain so not cool, lol [19:09] Mogzagain if freebsd is useable, and a simple way to learn how to manage a BSD install, as long as the crapple/ms mits aren't on the system itself, certainly sounds interesting. [19:12] psydroid people have been telling me they haven't been able to even get it installed on their x86 hardware and I haven't had good experiences getting recent versions working on non-x86 hardware, so YMMV [19:13] Mogzagain hmmm, that's a shame. I certainly had issues with non-systemd distros previously; couldn't get any installed. [19:14] Mogzagain I wonder what that's about. [19:15] Mogzagain so important that ppl can do these installs, so it's surprising that the installers aren't fixed [19:18] MinceR have you tried void or devuan? [19:18] psydroid it's mostly not about the installers, but a lack of hardware support, even if previous versions worked on the same hardware (as in the case of PPC64) [19:19] DaemonFC[m] The virus spread in Illinois is still getting worse even with the new restrictions. [19:20] Mogzagain I tried installing devuan; no luck. I made a note just yesterday to look at void. just taking a look at the freebsd site, the install page ... just begun reading, so haven't got to their minimum hardware requirements and supported architectures, but, yes, could well be a hardware sulpport issue. [19:20] Mogzagain what had changed between the working versions and the non-working, when using it on the same hardware? [19:20] DaemonFC[m] How is anything really clean of systemd since so many things rely on it? [19:20] DaemonFC[m] You have to bring in at least part of it, right? [19:21] Mogzagain yes, it's got a heap load of tentacles, for sure, and, as far as I understand, some non-systemd distros have made kind of hollowed out compatible things? [19:22] DaemonFC[m] That was the point of taking over unrelated stuff. [19:22] DaemonFC[m] To put hooks in it and make sure nothing works right without it. [19:23] Mogzagain yes, that's the bad stuff, the intent [19:23] MinceR > a lack of hardware support [19:23] MinceR often what breaks these is simply that the newest installer image has an old kernel [19:23] Mogzagain oh right; that's something that's at least easier to fix, thankfully [19:24] Mogzagain odd thing to do, including an old kernel [19:30] Mogzagain looking at the list of supported processors, not even sure it would install on asus tuff laptop, eek [19:31] DaemonFC[m] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201123/07280445757/comcast-expands-bullshit-usage-capsin-middle-pandemic.shtml#comments [19:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Comcast Expands Its Bullshit Usage Caps...In The Middle Of A Pandemic | Techdirt [19:31] DaemonFC[m] They said "Well, we upped them 20% over the last limit.". [19:32] DaemonFC[m] They started out at like 600 GB per month and then went to 1 TB and now 1.2 TB, so they're obviously trying to figure out where most people won't complain to the government about it. [19:32] DaemonFC[m] My guess is bumping it to 1.2 TB was a reaction to the incoming administration. They don't want lots of people with huge bills to demand Title II classification again. [19:33] DaemonFC[m] Mo (Spyware from Comcast) Zilla says that Comcast is great. I suppose this DNS over HTTPS more or less subverts your VPN, right? [19:34] Mogzagain yes, concerning [19:36] DaemonFC[m] After Mozilla added Comcast as a TRR, they dropped their objections to DoH completely. [19:37] Mogzagain that's not a good direction at all [19:42] DaemonFC[m] Watching The Handmaid's Tale again. [19:43] DaemonFC[m] Commander Lawrence needs to take advantage of the Waterfords being arrested in Canada and High Commander Winslow being killed and disappeared. [19:44] DaemonFC[m] I'd take advantage of the power vacuum. They're offering him a promotion in exchange for coming up with a response. He should take it and then figure out a way to manufacture charges of sedition to get his opposition out of the way. [19:44] DaemonFC[m] He can issue an emergency order to have them taken out and executed. [19:44] DaemonFC[m] Before anyone has a chance to respond, he'll be in control of the government and can start a series of reforms. [19:45] DaemonFC[m] You know, "We have new evidence that traitors among us conspired with the resistance forces to pull this off, and here is who did it! Seize them immediately!". [19:45] DaemonFC[m] Nothing like a purge. [19:46] Mogzagain sounds like you're enjoying the series [19:46] DaemonFC[m] The ranks of the Commanders have been thinning out pretty quickly so there's few that equal his rank at this point. [19:47] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, I have been. [19:47] DaemonFC[m] Watching it on Hulu. I got free Hulu on my Sprint bill at one point. [19:47] MinceR (cat) https://ircz.de/p/20080815 [19:47] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4810088) [19:47] Mogzagain cool! [19:47] DaemonFC[m] They don't do that anymore, but I signed up when they offered it and they never took it away. [19:47] MinceR 25 202433 < Mogzagain> odd thing to do, including an old kernel [19:47] MinceR well, usually the image itself is old [19:47] Mogzagain I see [19:48] Mogzagain good about them not taking the free Hulu away! [19:49] DaemonFC[m] Yep, then my mom gave me her Netflix password, and I gave her a profile on my Hulu. [19:49] Mogzagain good teamwork there :-) [19:49] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, I get free Amazon Prime too because she added me on her "Household". [19:50] DaemonFC[m] So I've got three streaming TV apps that I can access and don't pay for. [19:50] Mogzagain good stuff! [19:52] DaemonFC[m] They're giving out overtime like crazy at Walmart right now. [19:52] DaemonFC[m] The online grocery thing is going crazy. [19:52] DaemonFC[m] Mandy asked if he could do another day there that his boss offered, so that's like 12 hours pay for working 8. [19:54] Mogzagain yes, everybody's doing online shopping far more now, and it's possible to get slots now more easily (UK) [19:55] Mogzagain there's a store called Iceland over here, where I've just started shopping; more local-based, and nice drivers, and free delivery, which is cool [19:55] Mogzagain that extra pay is a good deal, btw [19:56] vZS1 Mogzagain: if you want wide platform support you won't find much better than NetBSD but it's not for the casual user. [19:57] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:57] Mogzagain thanks for suggesting that, vZS1 ... good to know there's such as NetBSD also. It sounds like I may struggle a bit, but I'm reading about a few distros alongside watching the chat, so will take a look. [19:58] vZS1 What's your CPU architecture? [19:58] Mogzagain Interesting to see what people use, even though I know I'll prob not manage it, if it's aimed at more than casual users. [19:58] DaemonFC[m] I think that we're in for a rough time for the next 8 weeks, but the good news is that Trump barely did any planning at all for what to do if he lost. [19:59] DaemonFC[m] So they're in a mad scramble to figure out what they even can do on the way out right now, which is, obviously better for us than had they planned. [19:59] Mogzagain the laptops are both asus tuff, amd all the way through. AMD Ryzen R5-3550H, AMD Radeon RX560X 4GB Graphics, 512GB. x86/64. [19:59] DaemonFC[m] They'll do totally shoddy rulemaking and then lawsuits will erupt as soon as he's gone, and they'll be overturned and he won't be there to defend them or write replacements. ● Nov 25 [20:00] vZS1 You can run FreeBSD just fine. It's the most user-friendly non-Linux option [20:00] Mogzagain that's awesome news! thank you for confirming that. [20:00] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144750 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dee49dc5-db87-476e-bba7-1a88a6e17da2] [20:00] vZS1 Do you know how to use either vi(m) or Emacs? [20:01] Mogzagain oops, no [20:01] DaemonFC[m] The rulemaking even before this was so bad that he's already having his stuff thrown out by the day. [20:01] vZS1 You should learn the basics of one of those. [20:01] DaemonFC[m] Won't be able to save all of it, and with much of it there'd be no point even trying to. [20:01] Mogzagain is that what freebsd uses throughout the system, vi(m) and/or emacs? [20:01] vZS1 Yep [20:02] vZS1 vi(m) is more widely available so go for that [20:02] Mogzagain oh dear, lol, but I have watched a vid or two seeing vim used [20:02] Mogzagain there's no nano, geany, normal terminal? [20:02] DaemonFC[m] I'm pleased to see that instead of just going back on his promises, Biden says a burst of new rulemaking to overturn Trump's immigration policies, including Public Charge, will be part of the first 100 days. [20:02] DaemonFC[m] Public Charge has already been struck down, along with the new immigration fees. [20:03] vZS1 I prefer Emacs but vim comes installed by default [20:03] DaemonFC[m] Even if Trump managed to successfully appeal in time, it's on the way out in a matter of months after Biden gets in. [20:03] MinceR https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/free-will-2 [20:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - Free Will [20:03] Mogzagain okay [20:03] vZS1 Not sure about Emacs (it's the more user-friendly of the two) [20:04] Mogzagain hmm, didn't expect this, lol ... thought it would be an install running on a different kernel etc, but hadn't considered the actual way of using the system. [20:04] DaemonFC[m] https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/25/trump-lawyer-rudy-giuliani-heads-to-gettysburg-as-advisor-has-covid.html [20:04] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cnbc.com | Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani heads to Gettysburg as advisor has Covid [20:05] vZS1 I say this because you really should know one plaintext editor. The others aren't worth the trouble. [20:06] vZS1 You'll find yourself needing to edit some files from the terminal, on occasion. [20:06] Mogzagain I'm such a gui/visual person, very used to the normal terminal and such as nano etc. And I'm terrible at using shortcuts, lol; I can't keep them in my head. [20:06] vZS1 You don't need to learn any shortcuts [20:06] DaemonFC[m] He should have gone to Sharpsburg. [20:06] vZS1 Just learn how to edit a file and save it. [20:07] DaemonFC[m] That was a major Union victory over the Confederates. Would have been more fitting. [20:07] Mogzagain hmm, I've been watching the wrong videos; must have been a shortcut-loving person I watched, lol [20:07] Mogzagain what files would need editing from the terminal? [20:07] vZS1 Yeah. That's all a waste of time for the most part. [20:08] vZS1 Usually when you end up in a situation when the GUI goes tits up [20:08] Mogzagain lol haha [20:08] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Performance Impact To #POWER9 s Eager L1d Cache Flushing Fix su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144749 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b7183855-9ccf-4312-9fc6-a7d5cd50d421] [20:08] Mogzagain may the GUIs work perfectly always, lol [20:09] vZS1 You can install KDE on FreeBSD [20:09] vZS1 It's in the handbook [20:09] vZS1 Section 5.7 [20:10] vZS1 5.7.2. KDE [20:10] vZS1 I recommend that DE (desktop environment). It's got a lot of utilities, is very user-friendly, and will run just fine with your specs [20:11] vZS1 If you already know nano, you don't need to learn another terminal editor [20:11] vZS1 All you need to know is how to edit and save a file in a terminal [20:11] Mogzagain I used to run KDE actually, last year, then switched to Mate [20:12] Mogzagain and, yes, I like nano [20:12] Mogzagain I can do a few edits in that [20:13] Mogzagain I've found section 5.7 [20:13] vZS1 You will need to install nano first. I don't think FreeBSD ships it by default [20:13] Mogzagain hitting the chroot issue there, yes ... for me it is, lol, not for most other users [20:14] Mogzagain nice that xfce is available too, not that I use it right now, but possibly nearest to Mate [20:15] vZS1 Here is the install process for nano: [20:15] vZS1 $ portsnap fetch update [20:15] vZS1 $ cd /usr/ports/editors/nano [20:15] vZS1 $ make install clean [20:16] vZS1 $ ln -s /usr/local/bin/nano /usr/bin/nano [20:16] vZS1 That should work, more or less, as is. [20:16] Mogzagain thank you! I'll note that down now. [20:17] vZS1 If you prefer Xfce, go for it. Just stick to the officially supported stuff to save your own time and sanity. [20:18] Mogzagain that's entirely the plan; I know what happens if I try outside of that, lol [20:19] Mogzagain do you know how things are about graphics tablets on FreeBSD? do they tend to be supported? [20:19] vZS1 The FreeBSD handbook has everything you need. Head over to their IRC, if you have questions. [20:19] Mogzagain good stuff; thanks for advice! [20:19] vZS1 I don't know about graphics tablets. Let me check. [20:20] Mogzagain thank you! [20:20] vZS1 Yw [20:20] vZS1 What kind of graphics tablet do you have? [20:20] Mogzagain it's an xp-pen deco [20:21] vZS1 I have one of those too [20:21] Mogzagain oh cool! [20:21] Mogzagain what do you enjoy using it for? blender or draw/paint or other things? [20:22] vZS1 I use the DIGImend drivers [20:22] vZS1 Presentations and when I'm teaching [20:22] Mogzagain yes, same here ... and you use them on FreeBSD? [20:22] Mogzagain that sounds great ... do you teach computing? [20:22] vZS1 I don't know about FreeBSD. I've only really used it as a development machine. [20:22] Mogzagain I see. I'd presumed you were on FreeBSD there. [20:23] vZS1 I only use it for servers [20:23] vZS1 Yeah. I teach computing stuff [20:23] Mogzagain I see [20:23] *schestowitz just woke up [20:23] Mogzagain and great to be able to use the Deco for that [20:23] Mogzagain morning, Roy ... good sleep? [20:23] vZS1 Hold on. still searching [20:23] Mogzagain thank you! [20:23] *schestowitz works 1am-9am tonight [20:24] Mogzagain long hours! [20:24] schestowitz gotta make a living, man.... [20:24] Mogzagain you ain't wrong [20:24] Mogzagain 16 hours on the trot is a long day! [20:27] vZS1 I don't think there's any graphics driver support. So might have to stick to Linux [20:28] Mogzagain oh no [20:28] vZS1 Could only find Wacom [20:28] vZS1 You should look into Void. It's quite similar to FreeBSD [20:28] Mogzagain I use libwacom in with things, so there's a chance it might just pick it up. [20:28] vZS1 No systemd [20:29] Mogzagain I've just bookmarked Void, as it was suggested earlier in the chat ... got a few FreeBSD pages open, and will take a look at Void as well, for sure [20:29] Mogzagain yes, away from systemd is a good direction to go [20:30] Mogzagain thanks for suggesting it also [20:30] Mogzagain good to know which alternatives ppl are using/recommend [20:31] vZS1 If you want to try the wacom drivers, you can try https://wiki.freebsd.org/WacomTablet [20:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.freebsd.org | WacomTablet - FreeBSD Wiki [20:31] Mogzagain cool; thanks! [20:32] schestowitz do you know david revoy? [20:32] schestowitz he got a new PC, uses some gnu favour on it [20:32] schestowitz he does lots of krita [20:32] schestowitz ona tablet [20:32] schestowitz *on a [20:32] vZS1 @sche [20:32] Mogzagain thanks for that link, and, yes, I know of David, and often check out his site to see what he's running, but haven't done it for a while. I think it was Kubuntu the last time I checked? [20:32] vZS1 schestowitz: who ya asking? [20:32] schestowitz he's not super-technical [20:33] schestowitz he's an artist [20:33] schestowitz who loves s/w freedom [20:33] schestowitz Mogzagain: he had a new book recently, carrots and something [20:33] Mogzagain he's great at explaining the tech. [20:33] schestowitz sold over 1000 copies in a week or two [20:33] Mogzagain lol, carrots and something! [20:34] schestowitz vZS1: Mogzagain is the artistic kind [20:34] Mogzagain Pepper and Carrot, lol [20:34] schestowitz we need them [20:34] schestowitz also for techrights [20:34] vZS1 We do indeed [20:34] Mogzagain heck yes, super artistic-y [20:34] schestowitz I'm good at drawing, but lack the time to practice any longer [20:34] schestowitz sometimes we need graphics to explain or show things [20:34] vZS1 I spend most my waking hours doing something related to system administration [20:35] Mogzagain wow, that's a lot of copies to sell in just one week! [20:35] schestowitz "It all stopped around the age of 15." It all stopped around the age of 15. [20:35] Mogzagain yes, if there's arty stuff needs doing, I'd be glad to [20:35] schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/art.htm [20:35] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Art [20:35] vZS1 Have helped out quite a few artists with their setup [20:36] Mogzagain tell me what graphics you need, and I can sort that out [20:36] schestowitz Tip-X art http://schestowitz.com/Art/Childhood_Art/1997-1999/Earthworm_Jim_2_1997.jpg [20:36] vZS1 Mogzagain: which tools do you run as your main staples? [20:36] schestowitz I think I must have been 15 when I jotted this http://schestowitz.com/Art/Childhood_Art/1997-1999/Globe_1999.jpg [20:37] schestowitz Mogzagain: things for free software advocacy [20:37] schestowitz I have some things in mind [20:37] schestowitz what tools are you preferring? colour, mono? [20:37] Mogzagain I'm taking a look now at age 15 Roy's work ... definite promise there! for real. You're getting the shading, the details, the proportions. Good stuff! [20:38] Mogzagain I like that Earthworm Jim! [20:38] *notanamber (~luca@2001:b07:a16:5bc0:bd01:a12:47e2:5907) has joined #techrights [20:38] Mogzagain tools? do you mean art program, or general software? [20:39] schestowitz I was into penciling, or doing the same with ballpens at school http://schestowitz.com/Art/Childhood_Art/1997-1999/Equipment_1998.jpg [20:39] vZS1 Art programs [20:39] Mogzagain Roy, I can do colour/mono, whatever you want. [20:39] schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Art/Childhood_Art/1993-1996/Gladiators_1994.jpg [20:39] schestowitz age 12, I think [20:40] schestowitz progress stalled when I got into programming around 15 http://schestowitz.com/Art/Childhood_Art/2002/images.html [20:40] Mogzagain this is really good! you can tell in the equipment artwork that you're measuring the shapes really well! [20:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Childhood Drawings and Art [20:40] schestowitz Mogzagain: so anyway, about free softwarwe [20:40] schestowitz we need advocacy things [20:40] schestowitz like the ones FSF makes [20:40] schestowitz and maybe things about patent policy in Europe [20:40] Mogzagain even seeing just a few pieces, you can see a definite style in your artworks; it's really cool [20:41] schestowitz we write a lot about EPO [20:41] Mogzagain I love the little characters [20:41] Mogzagain advocacy things? so dtp with some illustrations? [20:42] schestowitz we need graphics about EPO [20:42] schestowitz we got someone sending in caricatures sometimes [20:42] schestowitz but nothing so professional [20:42] Mogzagain I'd need you to tell me exactly what to be including. I'd just be the visual production part. [20:43] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [20:43] vZS1 Those 19th and 20th century caricatures would be a nice style [20:43] vZS1 For the EPO stuff [20:43] Mogzagain whatever you want, I can find refs, work something up, chuck you a sketch or two, and see what you think. [20:43] vZS1 robber barons and their ilk [20:43] schestowitz The cartoon here was done for us by a professional cartoonist http://techrights.org/2017/12/05/epo-enrages-the-powerless/ [20:43] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The European Patent Office Enrages the Powerless to Empower the Super-Powerful (Outside Europe) | Techrights [20:43] Mogzagain that's interesting; I'll look up the 19th and 20th century caricatures! [20:43] schestowitz based on our amaterish cartoon [20:44] schestowitz we right now protest covid-19 policy in EPO [20:44] Mogzagain I could do that, no problem; glad to do something [20:44] schestowitz November articles http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/EPO#November [20:44] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | EPO - Techrights [20:45] schestowitz we can advertise work you do to get points across as cartoons [20:45] Mogzagain not superkeen on political stuff though, I should probably say [20:45] schestowitz most of their employees (~7,000) read Techrights and can enjoy cartoons [20:45] schestowitz EPO is patents, not to political [20:45] schestowitz right now many workers there fell stranded [20:46] schestowitz and juggle looking after kids and keeping up with patent 'production [20:46] Mogzagain free software stuff, all good, but I do keep away from political [20:46] schestowitz we can make cartoons about that [20:46] schestowitz ok, so not EPO [20:46] schestowitz how about OSI? [20:46] schestowitz we can make fun of their corporate takeover [20:46] schestowitz also Linux Foundation's [20:47] Mogzagain cartoons sounds fun! [20:47] schestowitz do you know Jim Zemlin? [20:47] schestowitz can you draw him as cartoon? [20:47] Mogzagain my idea of hell drawing government figures etc, lol [20:47] schestowitz same for Torvalds and Greg G-H [20:47] schestowitz K-H [20:47] Mogzagain but, as long as it's not political party stuff, or covid, I should say also, we can work something out, no problem [20:47] schestowitz they're geeks [20:48] schestowitz we can make a cartoon with Torvalds [20:48] schestowitz about how he's bossed by Microsoft employees now [20:48] schestowitz and maybe something about him not being allowed to say some things [20:49] schestowitz because, as you know, the companies try to limit the speech or participation of critics [20:49] Mogzagain eek, I hadn't considered this fully. I suppose I imagined it would be general free software stuff. [20:49] schestowitz that's what FSF does [20:49] Mogzagain I wasn't even sure what that would involve, maybe only went as far as wallpaper so far, lol. [20:49] schestowitz fluff and 'cute' things [20:49] schestowitz not strong advocacy from FSF anymore [20:50] Mogzagain I don't really keep up with all the icky stuff, and I know this is sounding like there's a very narrow chance I'd paint something, but there must be things I can do, and I'm sure we can work that out. [20:50] Mogzagain I'm able to draw these ppl, but I'm not keen on them and have a big policy of ignoring them, lol [20:50] Mogzagain can't stand that Greg [20:50] vZS1 You can be an artist advocate for free software [20:50] vZS1 That in itself is a big part of what we need [20:51] schestowitz yeah [20:51] schestowitz and it's not political [20:51] schestowitz per se [20:51] schestowitz it helps us express ideas [20:51] schestowitz and humour people aware of these ideas [20:51] schestowitz it might even humour those whom you draq [20:51] schestowitz we don't mock the geek [20:51] schestowitz but the situation they're in [20:52] vZS1 A gagged Torvalds would be pretty funny [20:52] vZS1 and accurate [20:52] Mogzagain I suppose it could be called fluff/cute, but more stuff that doesn't have associations with politics or icky ppl. Fine art, general painting/drawing, etc, and some anime/cartoon stuff, but I stick with things that brighten stuff up and are fun, and I get down about these icky ppl, tbh [20:52] schestowitz I am really not good at drawing a person based on a given template of that person; it eventually looks like a different person [20:52] schestowitz vZS1: like the famous gagged Assange images [20:52] Mogzagain sounds good, vZA1 [20:52] schestowitz with a bandanna or balaclava saying Microsoft on it [20:53] Mogzagain and what are the best ways to advocate? [20:53] schestowitz humour can help [20:53] schestowitz and that spreads [20:53] vZS1 RMS with an armoury worth of knives in his back would also be apt [20:53] schestowitz people pass around the cartoons [20:53] schestowitz vZS1: but it's genetic [20:54] Mogzagain my natural response to a gagged cartoon of Torvalds would be to paint the opposite, as I'm always focussing on how ppl can break free of stuff, so painting him stood on ms's carcass would appeal, lol haha [20:54] schestowitz maybe add Gates and Epstein, add MIT building [20:54] schestowitz to show how he's used to distract from what they did in MIT [20:54] schestowitz Mogzagain: so rip of the mask [20:54] Mogzagain lol, we all do that sometimes; takes a lot of measuring out and checking e.g. the eye with the corner of the nose, etc [20:54] vZS1 Torvalds isn't breaking free of anything [20:54] schestowitz and show Torvalds breaking free of it [20:54] schestowitz of the impediment to speech [20:55] schestowitz like a ripped off mouth cover [20:55] schestowitz with some logo on it [20:55] vZS1 But it would be nice to see it in art [20:55] Mogzagain yes, fun and humour and freedom ... all good [20:55] Mogzagain RMS firing those knives back, peacefully of course, while meditating or something, lol [20:55] schestowitz as in, screw your p-c gag police [20:55] vZS1 I like the RMS idea more [20:56] schestowitz with de raadt portrayed as a rat... hell no [20:56] Mogzagain for example, the WINE article ... a glass of wine, with muscular arms etc and it's hand up saying 'no' to represent those who aren't the mole, and the mole getting pointed at disapprovingly [20:57] Mogzagain yes, ripping off the mask sounds a good idea [20:57] vZS1 Those are some good ideas [20:58] Mogzagain yes, and he surely has plenty of money in the bank, and could afford to make a big stand, is the thought I can't get out of my head [20:58] Mogzagain even on the level of valuing the work he put in for all these years [20:58] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux - about 2 hours ago [https://pleroma.site/objects/a2f4e75c-d5be-48aa-9fda-a1fc446a5488] [20:58] Mogzagain a braveheart 'freedom!' written on the mask [20:59] Mogzagain vZS1, what are you referring to that would be nice to see it in art? [20:59] Mogzagain exactly, screw 'em [20:59] Mogzagain lol [20:59] Mogzagain for real! [20:59] vZS1 Positive depictions of the disasters we've had to deal with the last year and this year. [20:59] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Canonical Allies With Docker Inc. on Secure Containers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144734#comment-27244 [https://pleroma.site/objects/02d2db38-37b9-423d-8248-ea3c2b605e67] [20:59] Mogzagain a lot of fun to play with these ideas! ● Nov 25 [21:00] Mogzagain I can certainly rustle something up, if there's one of the ideas stands out [21:00] schestowitz [20:57] yes, ripping off the mask sounds a good idea [21:00] schestowitz I know it can be hard to draw [21:00] schestowitz a torn item with a logo still showing [21:00] Mogzagain Great! yes, I'm a strong believer in turning things round to the positive, where ppl can get to tap into that feeling of power and winning over stuff. [21:00] schestowitz we can use and reuse such cartoon [21:01] schestowitz we often reuse things, esp. ones that took a lot of effort to make [21:01] Mogzagain don't worry, it wouldn't be hard to draw ... just doodle it, find a ref, tidy it up [21:01] schestowitz maybe a WSL cartoon also [21:01] schestowitz the thing we need to convey is [21:01] schestowitz this is NOT Linux [21:01] Mogzagain hard with a longish word though, a bit, unless he was carrying a spare that was hanging from his coat pocket, where the full word shows [21:02] schestowitz it's Linux subsystem on WIndows [21:02] schestowitz not what the same says [21:02] schestowitz and you can paint malicious microsofters spying with magnifying glasses on WSL "useds" [sic] [21:02] schestowitz and WSL made of logo [21:02] schestowitz because it's really just a toy [21:02] schestowitz to keep people from trying the Real Thing [21:03] schestowitz another one is Edge [21:03] Mogzagain anything that's a good strong visual, making it very clear what is a good focus/positive [21:03] schestowitz lots of things that can be conveyed in cartoon [21:03] CrystalMath would it be good to start a anti-corporate fork of linux? [21:03] MinceR yes [21:03] CrystalMath kinda like the people's linux [21:03] schestowitz too much work [21:03] CrystalMath idk [21:03] MinceR but it would also be difficult [21:03] schestowitz it's a boring kernel [21:03] CrystalMath it is, but [21:03] CrystalMath monolithic is still the way i think [21:03] CrystalMath and simple is good [21:03] schestowitz it's just something companies throw drivers at [21:04] Mogzagain little tiny ms ppl in the shadows, and free software/linux towering above, with lots of light and colour [21:04] schestowitz here is one I made ages ago [21:04] schestowitz and became very popular [21:04] schestowitz maybe 12 years ago... [21:04] *schestowitz fetches [21:04] schestowitz http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/gnu-pc-mac-small.png [21:05] schestowitz I was surprised how popular it became [21:05] Mogzagain I think figosdev is referencing tidying up a very small distro as an option that can be easily maintained? [21:05] Mogzagain that would be anti-corporate [21:05] schestowitz yes, 12 years ago, based on the URL [21:05] Mogzagain not linux though ... BSD [21:05] CrystalMath Mogzagain: that's okay [21:05] schestowitz it was simple [21:06] schestowitz at the time of "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" [21:06] schestowitz I added the missing piece [21:06] schestowitz silhouetted [21:06] Mogzagain good graphic! I can see it with lots of colour as well. [21:07] Mogzagain or the speech bubble could say something like 'we need to be a part of this!' or something similar [21:07] schestowitz no, we don't [21:07] schestowitz that's the point [21:07] schestowitz they talk shit and lying to people [21:07] Mogzagain oops, I misread, lol [21:07] schestowitz we do science [21:07] schestowitz we make things that work [21:08] schestowitz they waste billions advertising to mislead people [21:08] CrystalMath MinceR: there are things that i add to the kernel [21:08] schestowitz and gnu is vastly bigger [21:08] Mogzagain I was already onto doing a colour version of all the good stuff, so didn't read it properly. sorry about that. [21:08] CrystalMath idk, i suppose i could just upload patches [21:08] schestowitz CrystalMath: better hurry up, you are almst 30! [21:08] schestowitz linux turned 50 [21:08] schestowitz *linus [21:08] Mogzagain a nice graphic with those who are anti-coporate could be good [21:08] schestowitz linux is 30 soon [21:08] schestowitz so you would kill it [21:09] Mogzagain *anti-corporate [21:09] CrystalMath you know that what i said [21:09] CrystalMath was a joking reference [21:09] CrystalMath to the film Logan's Run? [21:09] schestowitz Mogzagain: it's not even anti-corporate [21:09] CrystalMath great movie, i recommend it [21:09] Mogzagain I know, yes; just onto an idea inspired by your graphic [21:09] schestowitz many of us are not anti-capitalist, but anti-oligarchs-messing-about-with-communities [21:09] Mogzagain if we clarify who is free software supporting, and include them all in a visual, that could be nice [21:09] schestowitz there are companies that give to Linux without infiltrating and undermining communities [21:10] *ylevental (935c6add@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.147.92.106.221) has joined #techrights [21:10] Mogzagain that's cool [21:10] schestowitz hi, ylevental [21:10] CrystalMath schestowitz: i'm like that, i'm anti-corporate but not anti-capitalist [21:10] CrystalMath i support small businesses [21:10] schestowitz ylevental: see http://techrights.org/2020/11/18/epo-disability/ [21:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Inside the EPO During Corona: The Office Management Never Cared About the Well-being of Staff (and Still Doesnt) | Techrights [21:10] CrystalMath and independent workers [21:10] schestowitz it's the new 'woke' thing [21:10] CrystalMath freelancers [21:10] ylevental Hello, schestowitz. I saw this today http://techrights.org/2020/09/05/the-microsoft-rip-artic I was more right than I thought apparently [21:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Tragic Stories of Microsoft Mishandling People With Special Needs (to the Point Where Some Needlessly Die) | Techrights [21:11] schestowitz all the massive Pentagon contractors and patent offices love disabilities!! [21:11] ylevental And I will check out the other link [21:11] schestowitz ylevental: you cannot even say "disabled anymore' [21:11] schestowitz not it's "specially abled" [21:11] schestowitz and some other P-C gobbledegook [21:12] schestowitz Carlin warned about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asZ1R-Xylj4 [21:12] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-George Carlin Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners (archived mirrored vid) - YouTube [21:12] ylevental Sadly, that is true :o [21:13] CrystalMath absolutely [21:13] Mogzagain that's so bad, as it seems they're trying to make out the disabled don't need help ... really bad seeing how organisations like this put on a false front about caring for vulnerable ppl, yet treat them horribly in private [21:14] ylevental the time I wrote my last piece on Microsoft and autism back in 2017, I was working at an IT company that claimed to provide customized jobs for people with autism. Looking back, they actually knew nothing about autism. It's just used as marketing, and it's pretty common nowadays [21:15] Mogzagain yes, they probably get some extra funds if they employ a certain percentage of disabled ppl? [21:15] Mogzagain or e.g. ppl with autism [21:16] ylevental They use a very loose definition of disability, so even people that are borderline-normal get preference. It's just not wanting to deal with the actual problem [21:16] Mogzagain yes, for sure, they won't treat disabled ppl well, but will try to turn any things that helped the disabled towards themselves [21:17] Mogzagain getting extra funds for bringing in disabled ppl, then that money most likely goes on things for themselves [21:18] schestowitz ylevental: also read http://techrights.org/2019/10/20/understanding-autism/ [21:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Guest Post: Understanding Autism for More Complete Inclusion | Techrights [21:18] schestowitz long time, need catching up on these issues [21:18] schestowitz I'm not qualified to comment on them credibly [21:19] schestowitz but corporate exploitation of such condition is in full swing [21:19] schestowitz rebuttals are well overdue [21:19] ylevental I will check that out [21:19] schestowitz thanks [21:20] schestowitz I didn't have your contacts [21:20] schestowitz but thought you would find that of relevance [21:20] schestowitz someone mentioned you here some months ago [21:20] schestowitz cannot recall who or the context [21:20] ylevental Oh, I see [21:21] schestowitz you were also write about "Donald" and "the Bill" http://techrights.org/2020/10/25/donald-trump-and-bill-gates/ [21:21] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Donald Trump Helped Bill Gates Increase His Wealth by More Than 50%, Especially During the Pandemic | Techrights [21:22] ylevental Wow, the fundamental difference is that Gates is more intelligent, but he is on the side of the wealthy [21:23] *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [21:23] ylevental Regarding technology, I am still using Linux, and nothing can change that [21:27] *schestowitz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:27] *schestowitz (~schestowi@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [21:27] -NickServ-schestowitz!~schestowi@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com has just authenticated as you (schestowitz) [21:27] *schestowitz has quit (Changing host) [21:27] *schestowitz (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrights [21:27] ylevental I have to go now, but I might pop in occasionally. I am on twitter@YuvalLevental. My email is yhl3051 at rit dot edu [21:27] schestowitz ok, cya [21:27] *ylevental has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) [21:29] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: qBittorrent 4.3.1 Released, #HowTo Install in Ubuntu via PPA su xn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144751 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8e0fc43a-e4d4-4f32-b6a9-2480dc93325e] [21:30] Mogzagain hey Roy; I've just been looking some more at your Art site, and seeing there are various banners and avatars and images. I'll pick some ideas from there, and get a couple of bits done and email you them when they're ready. Just so you can get an idea of the kind of thing, and incase you like them and want to use them. [21:30] schestowitz sure, sounds great! [21:31] Mogzagain good stuff! I look forward to painting them, and to your reaction! Hope you enjoy them. Should be some time over the next week. :-) [21:32] schestowitz thanks [21:32] schestowitz will help our advocacy a lot [21:32] schestowitz for users' freedom [21:32] Mogzagain you're very welcome, and I'm glad to help out with something so important and that ppl can enjoy. [21:34] Mogzagain I'll head off now. 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