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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, January 29, 2020

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DaemonFC[m]I liked Netsurf when I tried it in 2012. Now every site is a web app. Eww.Jan 29 00:05
DaemonFC[m]Even the latest Netsurf couldn't render 30% of the sites I threw at it without major problems. Jan 29 00:06
DaemonFC[m]I managed to use with it though.Jan 29 00:06
DaemonFC[m]Wikipedia and a few other sites work okay.Jan 29 00:06
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: Only 30%? Not bad.Jan 29 00:06
DaemonFC[m]The Javascript being on breaks things worse than leaving it off.Jan 29 00:07
DaemonFC[m]I liked Opera 12 and I'd probably try to keep using it if they had bumped Linux to support recent enough TLS.Jan 29 00:08
DaemonFC[m]Just Windows. Jan 29 00:08
DaemonFC[m]It was compatible enough to probably still work okay mostly. They were always a few years ahead of everyone else on web standards and proud of it.Jan 29 00:09
DaemonFC[m]I suppose in Wine is an option.Jan 29 00:13
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU Projects and Upcoming LibrePlanet []Jan 29 00:26
DaemonFC[m]They said they sent 12.18 out to Windows because the browser options for XP were drying up in 2016.Jan 29 00:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Jan 29 00:37
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cubexyzI think redhat used to have an rpm for xprintJan 29 01:37
cubexyzcan't recall using it thoughJan 29 01:37
cubexyzI just use lp mostly, or print from keditJan 29 01:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: iXsystems' TrueNAS & FreeNAS Hit 11.3 []Jan 29 02:01
<--mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Jan 29 02:07
DaemonFC[m]Was there any good reason for requiring  XP SP3 on some applications near the end? I mean, I suppose it was a good idea to have it, but it didn't make many changes to the OS.Jan 29 02:15
DaemonFC[m]Xprint was dropped from X years ago.Jan 29 02:22
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]:  Windows XP sp3 was the start of being able to install windows without a product key.Jan 29 02:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Windows XP SP3: The improvements are under the hood | ComputerworldJan 29 02:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Hardware/Modding: Arduino IDE, Raspberry Pi and PocketPCR []Jan 29 02:23
DaemonFC[m]The web browser situation on XP actually went downhill way faster than it did on Windows 98 or 2000.Jan 29 02:29
DaemonFC[m]Windows 98 with Kernelex can actually run Firefox 8, if you didn't mind the bookmarks not working.Jan 29 02:30
DaemonFC[m]Eveb though I think Mozilla dropped support for XP when Firefox 3 came out.Jan 29 02:30
DaemonFC[m]No, I was wrong. Firefox 9.0.1 works on Windows 98 with Kernelex. Jan 29 02:32
DaemonFC[m]Firefox 10 works on Windows 98 but might freeze if you don't disable the updater.Jan 29 02:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Latest in GNU/Linux-Chromebook Integration (Crostini) []Jan 29 02:41
DaemonFC[m]Firefox 11 works, but there's rendering glitches. Firefox 12 freezes after a few second.Jan 29 02:41
DaemonFC[m]Firefox 13 has an error in msvcr100.dll and doesn't start.Jan 29 02:42
oiaohm  this one is fun.Jan 29 02:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sony Now "Officially" Maintaining The Linux PlayStation Input Driver, But Leads To Interesting Problem - PhoronixJan 29 02:43
oiaohmIts not the only time a problem like this comes up in the Linux kernel.Jan 29 02:43
DaemonFC[m]Firefox 10 was an ESR though.Jan 29 02:43
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux on AMD: Audio Issue Tackled and AMD Zen 3 CPU Support []Jan 29 02:45
vortigrexyet another aspect of Linux being captured by hostile corporationsJan 29 02:45
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: redhat keeps xprint around as a independant package for horrible legacy applications.   Good part was xprint using applications did not demard that xprint was the graphical server part of X11.  So you could run two as crash containment.Jan 29 02:45
oiaohmvortigrex: that problem does turn up on freebsd as well from time to time.Jan 29 02:45
vortigrexyeah, but nobody uses freebsd anywayJan 29 02:46
oiaohmthe disputes on the Linux side are fairly minor.Jan 29 02:47
oiaohmcompared to 29 02:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Windows Update drivers bricking USB serial chips beloved of hardware hackers | Ars TechnicaJan 29 02:47
vortigrexfor nowJan 29 02:47
oiaohmBricking devices is not tollated part of Linux mainline process.Jan 29 02:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat vs. SUSE vs. Canonical Contributions To The Mainline Linux Kernel Over The 2010s []Jan 29 02:48
oiaohmRefusing to support can fly at times.Jan 29 02:48
vortigrexuntil some important sponsor of the Microsoft Linux Foundation wants it to beJan 29 02:48
oiaohmDoes not work that way.Jan 29 02:48
vortigrexsure, there might be some extra stepsJan 29 02:48
vortigrexlike an alleged CoC violationJan 29 02:48
oiaohmReason why bricking is forbid on Linux side is simple.   If you design somethign to brick something are you sure you will not brick your own stuff.Jan 29 02:49
vortigrexbut you know there are many people who aren't nearly that carefulJan 29 02:49
oiaohmYes there is a historic example where someone made a patch to attempt to brick something and the result was they bricked their own hardware as well.Jan 29 02:49
oiaohmOf course the patch never got mainlined.Jan 29 02:50
vortigrexyeah, but things are changingJan 29 02:50
oiaohmNot really.Jan 29 02:50
oiaohmLot of this core logic does not change.Jan 29 02:50
oiaohmLinux kernel has enough issues dealing with quirks without intentionally adding stuff that does bad things.Jan 29 02:51
vortigrexagain, this only matters to reasonable peopleJan 29 02:51
oiaohmIt matters to Microsoft.Jan 29 02:52
oiaohmYou think someone add something that bricks something and Microsoft running some custom hardware in Azure and it gets nuked in the process.Jan 29 02:52
vortigrexmicrosoft is the last entity you should trust when maintaining a kernel, especially one they want to destroyJan 29 02:52
oiaohmMicrosoft is to the point they destory the Linux kernel they destory their operations.Jan 29 02:53
vortigrexthey might not careJan 29 02:53
vortigrexbut even if they do, they're incompetentJan 29 02:54
oiaohmvortigrex:  <<Who 10 years ago would think that Microsoft would be attempting to get into the phone market with a android device.Jan 29 02:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-9 critical questions about Microsoft's first Android phone | ComputerworldJan 29 02:54
oiaohmwith a Linux kernel.Jan 29 02:54
oiaohmMicrosoft is not the threat they use to be.Jan 29 02:54
oiaohmBecause they are coming highly dependant on Linux working.Jan 29 02:54
vortigrexand even if they were competent, their organization is still set up so that their departments work against each otherJan 29 02:54
vortigrexthey were highly dependent on windows workingJan 29 02:55
vortigrexdid windows ever work? no.Jan 29 02:55
oiaohmOf course Microsoft is going to fight tooth and nail to prevent Linux getting a desktop footprint in volume.Jan 29 02:55
oiaohmBut breaking the Linux kernel it self would do Microsoft massive harm.Jan 29 02:55
oiaohmWe have a MAD location for Microsoft at the moment.Jan 29 02:55
oiaohmAs in that Microsoft wants to attempt to destory Linux in particular areas yet doing so they can destory themselves in other areas really badly.Jan 29 02:56
DaemonFC[m]Buy a Nintendo Switch Pro controller. The $20 PowerA one works, unlike the knockoff xbox 360 PowerA controller. Jan 29 02:56
vortigrexyeah, but MAD only works properly with reasonable peopleJan 29 02:57
vortigrexit doesn't work with an evil corporation of crazy incompetent peopleJan 29 02:57
oiaohmvortigrex: fun fact for the past 20 years when you get windows updates they are in fact hosted on Linux servers.Jan 29 02:57
DaemonFC[m]"Though I must say with my Sony hat on, I don't really like supporting clone devices (they hijack our device ids.. etcetera) and we support hid-sony in an official capacity now across various devices. Though this change all relates to PS3 generation, which is not that important anymore so it shouldn't matter that much."Jan 29 02:58
vortigrexand it doesn't work with religious fanatics who believe that if everyone dies, they go to Heaven and their enemies go to HellJan 29 02:58
DaemonFC[m]We at Sony want our customers to feel raped without lubrication, but since the PS3 is so old we're not selling those anymore, who cares?Jan 29 02:58
oiaohmvortigrex: when I say serousally break themselves badly.  I mean Microsoft lets the Linux kernel be broken and the result could be their complete operation grinds to a halt.Jan 29 02:58
vortigrexand who will notice that?Jan 29 02:58
oiaohmMicrosoft investors.Jan 29 02:59
vortigrex"wow, windows broke again. like that doesn't happen every week!"Jan 29 02:59
vortigrexmicrosoft investors are banking on the same thing microsoft itself isJan 29 02:59
DaemonFC[m]vortigrex did I translate that from Sony properly?Jan 29 02:59
oiaohmThink about it failing to send out enterprise billing.Jan 29 02:59
vortigrexthe leverage they have and people being idiotsJan 29 02:59
vortigrexthey're probably used to working around that by nowJan 29 02:59
oiaohmvortigrex: serousally Linux goes down 80 percent of Microsoft income would go by by due to their current level of dependancy.Jan 29 03:00
vortigrexDaemonFC[m]: yeah, pretty muchJan 29 03:00
vortigrexoiaohm: sounds unlikelyJan 29 03:00
DaemonFC[m]They hate clone controllers because they like selling $80 controllers, and if they support clones, they lose out to a $20 controller that's just as good.Jan 29 03:00
vortigrexfor example, "PC" sales and the microsoft tax would be unaffectedJan 29 03:00
oiaohmvortigrex: the billing of that goes back though Linux servers from the OEM vendors.Jan 29 03:01
vortigrexcorporations paying microsoft regular fees for unusable bullshit like office365 would be unaffected because IT people who are microsoft cultists are in charge of thoseJan 29 03:01
oiaohmvortigrex: billing office 365 is also Linux servers.Jan 29 03:01
DaemonFC[m]Actually, you can buy Windows 10 PCs for $200 or $300 and get a decent laptop. Nuke Windows.Jan 29 03:01
vortigrexbilling can still be done on paperJan 29 03:01
DaemonFC[m]Subsidized by mass production and a ton of shovelware that gets deleted anyway.Jan 29 03:01
vortigrexDaemonFC[m]: yes, and by then you've paid for Backdoors10Jan 29 03:01
vortigrexand microsoft is laughing to the bankJan 29 03:02
DaemonFC[m]No, the shovelware people did.Jan 29 03:02
oiaohmvortigrex: no they don't have paper processing of that any more they went paperless 15 years ago.Jan 29 03:02
vortigrexand then using some of that money to buy laws that take away some more of your freedomsJan 29 03:02
oiaohmvortigrex: lets just say Microsoft is well and truly over the barrel.Jan 29 03:02
vortigrexoiaohm: then they'll buy a brand new laptop with whatever on and retry on thatJan 29 03:03
oiaohmvortigrex: how is your product activation going to work thinking that is Linux servers as well.Jan 29 03:03
vortigrexpeople will just get used to not being able to change the wallpaperJan 29 03:04
vortigrexor they'll have people do it on the phoneJan 29 03:04
oiaohmvortigrex: Microsoft is using Linux based phone exchanges.   So phone lines dead to Microsoft.Jan 29 03:04
oiaohmThis is a level of screwed of the insane.Jan 29 03:05
oiaohmPart of the reason why Microsoft started saying they loved Linux was to make it clear to their staff they need to be careful going after Linux usage because they depend on a hell load of Linux to exist.Jan 29 03:05
vortigrexmost of the changes we're talking about aren't going to brick every system running LinuxJan 29 03:06
vortigrexalso, they could replace their PBX system in a hurry if their income depended on it (and it can)Jan 29 03:07
vortigrexthey still have tons of (ill-gotten) money so they can just throw money at such problemsJan 29 03:08
oiaohmThat usb serial one rendered many cheap switches Microsoft was using in Azure at the time useless.Jan 29 03:08
oiaohmvortigrex: Microsoft with the skype for business server does attempt to make their own PBX but its not reliable enough for their own usage.   That really should not surprise most people.Jan 29 03:12
vortigrexindeedJan 29 03:12
oiaohmSo its not a problem that throwing money at it fixes.Jan 29 03:12
DaemonFC[m]I've already exposed a couple of nasty tricks meant to make Linux look broken.Jan 29 03:12
DaemonFC[m]And fought to give them a PR black eye and some legal troubles if they didn't fix them.Jan 29 03:12
DaemonFC[m]The Lenovo one was much nastier because you couldn't even install Linux distributions on the laptops.Jan 29 03:13
vortigrexthey might not know that though -- they're used to "fixing" problems by throwing money at them successfullyJan 29 03:14
vortigrexthey throwed money at the Linux Foundation, and now it's theirsJan 29 03:14
vortigrexand it can fire people from the projectJan 29 03:14
vortigrexand Linus is doing what they want him to doJan 29 03:15
oiaohmvortigrex: what gives you that idea.  IBM, HP and many others would also love to aquire LinusJan 29 03:15
oiaohmThe Linux foundation is quite a hostile place of greed.Jan 29 03:16
oiaohmMicrosoft might seam powerful but compared to all the parties in their Microsoft is quite weak.Jan 29 03:16
DaemonFC[m]The Foxconn BIOS bug was strangely patched in Windows 3 years before they started shipping the affected hardware.Jan 29 03:16
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: because the BUG came from the Microsoft ACPI testsuite.Jan 29 03:17
vortigrexwell, for example, there's 1 party in there that decides what boots on your UEFI "PC"Jan 29 03:17
vortigrexit's microsoft.Jan 29 03:17
vortigrexand there's 1 party in there that bragged about being the one who forced the CoC on themJan 29 03:17
vortigrexthat one is microsoft too!Jan 29 03:18
vortigrexIBM loves microsoft, HP loves microsoftJan 29 03:18
oiaohmvortigrex: where do you get that one Microsoft braged about CoC.  Jan 29 03:18
vortigrex 29 03:18
oiaohmIBM hates Microsoft at core because Microsoft will not support IBM power platform.Jan 29 03:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | TwitterJan 29 03:18
vortigrexso why did they buy the company that paid microsoft to sign their bootloader stub and replicated a lot of design flaws in windows because it "modern" and proceeded to force it on a lot of people who didn't want it, and then just let them keep doing everything they've been doing before?Jan 29 03:19
oiaohmvortigrex: Microsoft code of conduct is nothing like the Linux kernel code of conduct.Jan 29 03:20
vortigrexand why are they assisting to microsoft's schemes against Linux users via the OIN?Jan 29 03:20
oiaohmIBM made OINJan 29 03:21
vortigrexyes they didJan 29 03:21
oiaohmIBM still basically control OIN and I have not seen Microsoft be able to use the OIN.Jan 29 03:21
oiaohmagainst Linux users.Jan 29 03:21
oiaohmIBM make OIN restricted so IBM could still use their patents.Jan 29 03:22
oiaohmBasically don't underestament IBM own means to be Evil alone.Jan 29 03:22
vortigrexi don'tJan 29 03:23
vortigrexi'm pointing out that they're cronies with microsoft, possibly more than everJan 29 03:23
oiaohmReally no IBM and Microsoft basically don't get along.   At times their indvidual objectives aline.Jan 29 03:25
vortigrexwell sure, ibm did some actual things sometime in the pastJan 29 03:25
vortigrexbefore they sold off most of the company :>Jan 29 03:25
oiaohmSo IBM is never a cronies with Microsoft.  That goes back to when Microsoft backstab IBM and IBM has a standing policy don't trust Microsoft.Jan 29 03:25
DaemonFC[m]I would think IBM would still be bitter over all that money they wasted on OS/2 after Microsoft fucked them good on that.Jan 29 03:25
DaemonFC[m]Maybe 20 years is long enough to forget. Jan 29 03:25
oiaohmNot even close DaemonFC[m]Jan 29 03:26
vortigrexthen they became official card-carrying apple shillsJan 29 03:26
vortigrexthen they bought red hat and had it function the same as beforeJan 29 03:26
oiaohmApple also doubled crossed IBM>Jan 29 03:26
vortigrexDaemonFC[m]: i suspect the people responsible don't work there anymoreJan 29 03:26
oiaohmIBM is one company you can bet is doing their actions by their own choices.Jan 29 03:26
vortigrexand they probably don't even know what they're doingJan 29 03:27
oiaohmThose choices may not be what we want with IBM.Jan 29 03:27
vortigrexthey certainly aren'tJan 29 03:27
oiaohmThis is the problem a lot of people want to see Microsoft as the leader with a lot of cronies following them.  In the Linux foundation this is basically not the case.Jan 29 03:28
oiaohmLinux foundation stack of different evil companies working with each other.Jan 29 03:29
oiaohmwho at times evil ideas aline.Jan 29 03:29
vortigrexand microsoft probably still threatens HP with hiking license prices if they do something microsoft doesn't likeJan 29 03:29
vortigrexand HP loves itJan 29 03:30
oiaohmMicrosoft did once.   HP responded by saying hey we don't need to make any windows server supporting hardware.Jan 29 03:31
oiaohmThat is how Microsoft really kicked their windows server market in the nuts.Jan 29 03:31
DaemonFC[m]LolJan 29 03:31
vortigrexwell, apparently HP also didn't need to make any laptops that support anything other than windowsJan 29 03:31
DaemonFC[m]HP barely survived Carly Fiorina. Jan 29 03:31
vortigrexjudging by the one i used at the last placeJan 29 03:31
DaemonFC[m]I was shocked that she ran for president, and that we ended up getting someone far less qualified. Jan 29 03:32
oiaohmvortigrex: I have been at a Linux conference sitting next to the head of HP research and development.  I asked him the direct question why do you desktops and laptops have windows on them.   His answer was it cheaper that way we are not paying for windows in fact malware we put on there is paying for windows and about 50 to 100USD more.Jan 29 03:33
vortigrexand the users are paying for it in time, stress and lost neuronsJan 29 03:34
DaemonFC[m]My last HP laptop, actually a post merger Compaq, was so horrible. Jan 29 03:34
vortigrexbut who cares? they were stupid enough to buy from HPJan 29 03:34
vortigrexthey deserve it.Jan 29 03:34
DaemonFC[m]It was like tla Yugo that wouldn't die.Jan 29 03:34
DaemonFC[m]Like aJan 29 03:34
oiaohmSo to sell a Linux laptop HP has to sell it at a higher price that they don't think people would buy.Jan 29 03:34
vortigrexthere's such a Yugo?Jan 29 03:34
vortigrexalso, wouldn't the malware people pay for all that even if the laptop did have working Legacy Boot for example?Jan 29 03:35
oiaohmvortigrex: that was the problem when Microsoft suggested lifting price they were cutting into HP profit margin from the malware.Jan 29 03:35
*danielp3344 still wants a yugoJan 29 03:35
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, it was underpowered, it heated up like a furnace, they said it was Vista compatible and then didn't release any Vista drivers, but sent me a Vista disc for it.Jan 29 03:35
vortigrexah, those lucky people who didn't have to deal with eastern bloc excuses for cars in their lives...Jan 29 03:36
DaemonFC[m]The touchpad malfunctioned and they fixed it, but their courier told me to meet him at Wendy's. Jan 29 03:36
danielp3344vortigrex: I really want oneJan 29 03:36
oiaohmvortigrex: remember when Microsoft wanted todo the signature line of laptops from vendors and all the vendors were like if you want that the price of laptop has to go up by at least 100 USD even if the licenses on those machines from you are free Microsoft.Jan 29 03:36
danielp3344Just so I can cram 800hp into it and make fun of muscle carsJan 29 03:36
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, my Yoga 900 was a Signature laptop.Jan 29 03:37
vortigrexyeah, i remember that oneJan 29 03:37
vortigrexextra cost, extra special shitty hardwareJan 29 03:37
vortigrexwhat a deal!Jan 29 03:37
DaemonFC[m]It was on a back to school sale so they knocked $150 off what everyone else was charging. Then I founf out they did a mid year refresh with a hardware upgrade and the new one didn't run Linux like the one in the blog I was reading did.Jan 29 03:38
oiaohmCut conners on the  Signature laptop due to not being malware funded.Jan 29 03:38
oiaohmThe sick world we live in.Jan 29 03:38
oiaohmWhere you cannot by a malware free laptop simply because it not cost effective.Jan 29 03:39
vortigrexwell, there's also that little issue that windows itself is malwareJan 29 03:40
oiaohmvortigrex: remember what I said the Linux foundation is made of companies with different of evil/greed.   HP form of greed is different to the Microsoft one.Jan 29 03:40
vortigrexspyware, built-in keylogger, mandatory "updates" and reboots...Jan 29 03:40
oiaohmvortigrex: except windows is malware where the party providing it expect you to pay them instead of them paying you as a hardware vendor.Jan 29 03:40
vortigrexsweet deal for themJan 29 03:41
oiaohmWindows only flys with hardware vendors as much as it does because third parties malware who pay them money depend on Windows to work.Jan 29 03:41
oiaohmI have said this one and it caused outrage.  One way for Linux to take over the desktop is come malware compadible so vendors can make more money installing Linux than Installing windows.Jan 29 03:42
oiaohmYes the greed of hardware vendors is horrible.Jan 29 03:42
oiaohmPlease note form of greed for malware paying them extends to like android phone makers...  Lots and lots of hardware vendors.Jan 29 03:43
vortigrexthat one's already doneJan 29 03:43
vortigrexmost distros already ship with malware, it's called "systemd"Jan 29 03:43
oiaohmsystemd does not meet the define of malwareJan 29 03:53
oiaohmAlso its not selling  you to make a profit to pay for it presence.Jan 29 03:53
vortigrexit's apparently profitable enough for ibm somehowJan 29 03:54
vortigrexyou know, i'd probably buy the "not malware" part if it was just atrociously designed and full of bugsJan 29 03:54
vortigrexbut the thing is, they've compromised organizations to try and force it on my equipmentJan 29 03:55
vortigrexi think we can rule out negligence hereJan 29 03:55
oiaohmReally what was being used before systemd was also full of bugs.Jan 29 03:55
*vortigrex yawnsJan 29 03:55
vortigrexyou can skip the infomercial, i'm not buying systemdJan 29 03:55
oiaohmThing is for redhat now IBM.  Systemd has in fact reduced deployed system issues.Jan 29 03:55
vortigrexin your dreams maybeJan 29 03:56
oiaohmRedhat/IBM support contracts they make more money that way.Jan 29 03:56
vortigrexof courseJan 29 03:56
oiaohmRedhat and IBM have the stats on it.Jan 29 03:56
vortigrexit's easier to make more money with support contracts when nobody else can understand the code your clients are runningJan 29 03:56
oiaohmThere were a list of common issues that were coming from badly made scripts in the init system.Jan 29 03:57
oiaohmSo its not exactly what you are saying.Jan 29 03:57
oiaohmI am not saying that systemd is perfect.Jan 29 03:58
oiaohmBut what was before systemd was no where near perfect either.Jan 29 03:58
vortigrexyou're merely pretending that a few edge cases almost nobody encountered with sysvinit outweigh massive bugs in systemd that regularly break systemsJan 29 03:58
oiaohmThere rare edge cases in your big data centers were daily/hourly problems.Jan 29 03:59
oiaohmSystemd managed to cure those.Jan 29 03:59
vortigrexthings like "oh no, PIDs can be reused!" vs the systemd developers themselves admitting that the sacred cgroups technology can not reliably do what they were selling it as doingJan 29 03:59
oiaohmPID reuse time in highly loaded data centers is less than a second.Jan 29 04:00
vortigrexthen what sort of problem is ubuntu booting into emergency mode on a hidden vc _every_ _single_ _time_? a millisecondly problem?Jan 29 04:00
oiaohmThe lag between getting the PID and sending kill command at least once per day is over 5 seconds.Jan 29 04:00
vortigrexwhat sort of problem is systemd failing to shutdown if the NFS server isn't reachable? an every second problem?Jan 29 04:00
vortigrexyeah, maybe if you're running systemd and gnomeJan 29 04:00
oiaohmNFS is normally clustered in the data center.   So they did not test for that failing early on because in the data centre that did not happen.Jan 29 04:01
oiaohmsystemd was designed first to fix the datacentre problems.Jan 29 04:02
vortigrexwhat sort of problem is a laptop failing to boot without a network connection?Jan 29 04:02
vortigrexand who the hell uses multiseat in a datacenter?Jan 29 04:02
oiaohmmultiseat is in fact used in the datacenter for multi people working on a problem at once.Jan 29 04:03
vortigrexlolJan 29 04:03
vortigrexthey haven't heard of SSH and serial console yet?Jan 29 04:03
oiaohmYou have to remember there have been SSH exploiting malware.Jan 29 04:04
vortigrexand let me guess, they also need to use audio and webcams while they're at itJan 29 04:04
vortigrexbecause nobody told them it was a server they were supposed to fixJan 29 04:04
vortigrexor maybe this is some sort of mythical datacenter that consists of multimedia desktop machines?Jan 29 04:04
oiaohmaudio is a funny one. 29 04:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Beware: Loud Noise Can Cause Data Loss on Hard DrivesJan 29 04:05
oiaohmSo yes you do find mics at times in data centres monitoring background noise levels.Jan 29 04:06
vortigrexbut not plugged into the servers doing other thingsJan 29 04:06
vortigrexand not used by whichever user happens to be logged into a GUIJan 29 04:06
oiaohmIt still can be a server in rack.Jan 29 04:06
vortigrex(and what are they doing with GUIs on a server anyway?)Jan 29 04:06
oiaohmNormally GUI would be hooked up to a rack that had been pulled out and isolated due to infection.Jan 29 04:07
vortigrexwhat for?Jan 29 04:07
oiaohmForensics.Jan 29 04:07
vortigrexwhat are these people who can't work with serial terminals doing in a data center?Jan 29 04:07
oiaohmSo you can id the infection and hopefully prevent more.Jan 29 04:08
oiaohmserial terminals are slow compared to direct terminals.Jan 29 04:08
vortigrexoh yeah, they create GUIs in Visual Basic to id the infection!Jan 29 04:08
oiaohmRemember infection you can be racing the clock.Jan 29 04:08
vortigrexit looks just like in the movies.Jan 29 04:08
oiaohmNot visual basic its normally python.Jan 29 04:08
oiaohmhistorically perl.Jan 29 04:08
oiaohmThat a horrible conecpt making a X11 application using perl.Jan 29 04:09
vortigrexi've seen worseJan 29 04:09
vortigrexmuch worseJan 29 04:09
vortigrexlike building a GUI where you have to specify with coordinates where each widget goes and how wide and tall it must beJan 29 04:09
vortigrexbecause the GUI toolkit can't figure it out by itselfJan 29 04:09
vortigrexand can't arrange the widgetsJan 29 04:09
vortigrexit's called "microsoft windows"Jan 29 04:09
oiaohmWindows Script Host gives you the option to use HTML.Jan 29 04:12
oiaohmBad HTML but still better than raw X11.Jan 29 04:12
vortigrexor you could use just about any toolkit that was not made by microsoftJan 29 04:13
vortigrex(dunno how broken macos is in this regard though)Jan 29 04:13
oiaohmWorseJan 29 04:13
vortigrexstill, GTK+, Qt, Tk, Swing do this properlyJan 29 04:14
vortigrexiirc so do AWT and SWTJan 29 04:14
vortigrexhaven't really looked into othersJan 29 04:14
oiaohmmacos will at times straight up say I will auto align stuff.   then you do that and it decides 1 in 20 load of the program to just stack everything straight on top of each other.Jan 29 04:14
vortigrex:)Jan 29 04:14
oiaohmSo you click and you it ok and cancel at the same time and it runs both code paths.Jan 29 04:14
oiaohmHow can you say well and truly upset results.Jan 29 04:15
oiaohmYou would expect to choose either the ok or cancel buttons not run both buttons with no locking.Jan 29 04:15
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OpenMandriva Lx 4.1 RC is out []Jan 29 04:38
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DaemonFC[m]I'm surprised to see the commit count from Canonical to the kernel going way up.Jan 29 04:54
DaemonFC[m]About 10 years ago, they weren't doing a hell of a lot. They said they were attracting users to open source.Jan 29 04:55
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schestowitzKlem_von_Met: 29 07:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft’s ‘Mixed Reality’ Goggles Take Marina Abramović on a World TourJan 29 07:04
schestowitzsomeone sent this to meJan 29 07:04
schestowitzfine marketing by MicrosoftJan 29 07:04
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DaemonFC[m]Samsung Chromebook 3 -Yes or no?Jan 29 07:23
DaemonFC[m]Mandy needs something to replace that Macbook that time forgot.Jan 29 07:23
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scientes 29 12:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | RFC 4042 - UTF-9 and UTF-18 Efficient Transformation Formats of UnicodeJan 29 12:25
oiaohmscientes: I guess you noted the date on that one.Jan 29 12:51
oiaohmscientes:  the start of that tradition on RFC.Jan 29 12:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | RFC 2549 - IP over Avian Carriers with Quality of ServiceJan 29 12:52
oiaohmscientes: sorry I was off by 2 29 12:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The RFC Archive - All IETF RFCs, Internet Protocol Standards, Draft Standards, and Best Current PracticesJan 29 12:54
oiaohmscientes:  One of the best out the 1 of april rfcsJan 29 12:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | RFC 2324 - Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP/1.0)Jan 29 12:58
scientes> Jan 29 12:59
scientes2.3.2 418 I'm a teapotJan 29 12:59
scientes>  The resulting entity body MAY be short andJan 29 12:59
scientes   stout.Jan 29 12:59
scientes 29 13:03
scientesoh god, this is painfulJan 29 13:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | RFC 5242: A Generalized Unified Character Code: Western European and CJK Sections - The RFC ArchiveJan 29 13:03
scientes   o  Symbols consisting of multiple marks are always constructed fromJan 29 13:04
scientes      combining characters and positional modifiers; thus, the "i"Jan 29 13:04
scientes      character is constructed from the vertical line symbol followed byJan 29 13:04
scientes      a combining dot above.  Similarly "f" is composed of a centeredJan 29 13:04
scientes      vertical line, a right hook in the top position, and anJan 29 13:04
scientes      appropriately-positioned composing hyphen.Jan 29 13:04
scientes   Questions to, and contributions for, this coding system should beJan 29 13:04
scientes   addressed to the mailing listJan 29 13:04
scientes 29 13:04
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XRevan86 29 13:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | oss-security - LPE and RCE in OpenSMTPD (CVE-2020-7247)Jan 29 13:24
XRevan86root RCE in OpenSMTPDJan 29 13:25
scientesXRevan86, niceJan 29 13:25
scienteskinda blows a hole in OpenSSH's security bullclaimsJan 29 13:25
oiaohmscientes: ?? that not about openssh.  I think someone need to read a little closer.Jan 29 13:26
scientesI meant OpenBSDJan 29 13:26
scientesthey will have to update their web siteJan 29 13:27
oiaohmIts been bull like for ever.Jan 29 13:27
scientesI mean like that e-mail shows they getting root terminal over ncJan 29 13:27 easyJan 29 13:27
oiaohmsel4 is really one the the rare ones that can claim proper security.Jan 29 13:28
XRevan86They've reinvented postfix for minor licensing issues, and that's what they gotJan 29 13:28
scientespostfix is greatJan 29 13:28
oiaohmpostfix have had it security disasters.Jan 29 13:28
scientesMAIL FROM:<;sleep 66;>Jan 29 13:28
scientesRCPT TO:<root>Jan 29 13:28
XRevan86oiaohm: I'm only using it since 2013, not on my memoryJan 29 13:29
oiaohmXRevan86: the remote disaster with postfix was 2012 full remote exploit.Jan 29 13:30
oiaohmStill I would love to see more items be proper audited code.Jan 29 13:31
scientesoiaohm, or proven code?Jan 29 13:31
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XRevan86oiaohm: Can't find itJan 29 13:32
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XRevan86 looking hereJan 29 13:32
oiaohmscientes: sel4 mathematical  proof validation like stuff level for proper audit I mean.  Jan 29 13:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Postfix : Security vulnerabilitiesJan 29 13:32
oiaohmXRevan86: Sorry I was thinking year of cleaning up not year of CVE. 29 13:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | CVE-2011-1720 : The SMTP server in Postfix before 2.5.13, 2.6.x before 2.6.10, 2.7.x before 2.7.4, and 2.8.x before 2.8.3, when certainJan 29 13:35
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XRevan86> does not affect Postfix SMTP servers that use Dovecot SASL authenticationJan 29 13:36
XRevan86oiaohm: I wouldn't call that a disaster.Jan 29 13:37
oiaohmXRevan86: the possible claim of allowing remote code to execute is turns out not just to be possbile but a handful of infections in fact used it.Jan 29 13:37
oiaohmLets just say those with a wrong server configs and that bastard was a worm had kind of a messy.Jan 29 13:38
oiaohmPlease note the infection turned up about 12 months after the CVE.Jan 29 13:39
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XRevan86oy, compared to this opensmtpd bug this is nothingJan 29 13:40
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XRevan86 29 15:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - TransporterJan 29 15:12
danielp3344 29 15:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Libre SiliconJan 29 15:14
danielp3344hey this is neatJan 29 15:14
superkuhAh good. Just checked my postfix server and I don't support any of the vulnerable cyrus SASL login methods.Jan 29 15:18
XRevan86Disaster averted :)Jan 29 15:18
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*XRevan86 gaved drwho another chance: E3, E4 – ugh, E5 – okay, that got my attention back.Jan 29 21:50
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