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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, April 29, 2020

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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Devices: Purism, Allwinner, Rockchip http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136954 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8764811e-29dc-4971-a7db-8c1ab871c5a0]Apr 29 00:09
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/662646.jpgApr 29 00:18
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/17958720Apr 29 00:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Another day passes with the US, 4% of the world's population, accounting for 37.6606% of the world's #covid19 deathsApr 29 00:23
DaemonFC[m]I told you that it would be bad.Apr 29 00:24
DaemonFC[m]For old people especially.Apr 29 00:24
DaemonFC[m]The damned thing will kill so many of them it wipes out any population gain for the US for the entire year.Apr 29 00:25
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/17958678Apr 29 00:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #andorra reports #covid19 death and #czechia reports 4 for the day. Totals for the day already well above 6,000, so globally we've hardly improved.Apr 29 00:25
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/17958547Apr 29 00:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #trump will "make America great again" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8205237/Prisoners-hazmat-suits-continue-dig-mass-graves-NYCs-Hart-Island.htmlApr 29 00:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.dailymail.co.uk | Workers in hazmat suits continue to dig mass graves on NYC's Hart Island | Daily Mail OnlineApr 29 00:26
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/17958400Apr 29 00:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Europe reduces # of #covid19 deaths with lock-downs, but it still kills over 6,000 people a day (only those confirmed for #coronavirus are counted; real number vastly higher) mostly because it's spreading elsewhere. ~200,000 dead per month, only among the confirmed.Apr 29 00:26
DaemonFC[m]It's the end of the goddamned Republican Party.Apr 29 00:26
DaemonFC[m]What's not great about that?Apr 29 00:27
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MinceRagain, do not count your chickens before they are hatchedApr 29 00:27
DaemonFC[m]They're hatching.Apr 29 00:28
schestowitzGosh, I hate function keysApr 29 00:28
DaemonFC[m]Real fast.Apr 29 00:28
schestowitzI mistakenly put the machine to hibernationApr 29 00:28
DaemonFC[m]I'm upgrading to Fedora 32.Apr 29 00:28
DaemonFC[m]It's going to take forever.Apr 29 00:28
schestowitzfn+f1 = sleep, instead of super+f1Apr 29 00:28
schestowitzhow can I disable those Fn things in KDE?Apr 29 00:28
DaemonFC[m]The free tier of wifi here is capped at 170 KB/second.Apr 29 00:28
DaemonFC[m]Guessing keyboard settings.Apr 29 00:29
schestowitzI checkedApr 29 00:29
schestowitznothing too obvious thereApr 29 00:29
schestowitzanyway, I'll be more careful what I pressApr 29 00:29
schestowitzI used to make this error daily, now it's weeklyApr 29 00:29
MinceRcould be power manage{r,ment}Apr 29 00:29
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/17958771Apr 29 00:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Tomorrow the US, 4% of the world's population, will account for exactly a third of the world's #covid19 cases. Among "ACTIVE" (unsolved) cases it already accounts for 42.84%=~43%.Apr 29 00:35
DaemonFC[m]Trump changed the 60,000 number to 70,000.Apr 29 00:39
DaemonFC[m]That should get him through the next 5 days!Apr 29 00:39
DaemonFC[m]Maybe.Apr 29 00:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Adam Williamson: Fedora 32 release and Lenovo announcement http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136930#comment-24813 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6e1c7997-37c4-49d2-ae2f-da477fc609f1]Apr 29 00:51
schestowitzlolApr 29 00:52
schestowitzdid he really?Apr 29 00:52
schestowitzlink?Apr 29 00:52
schestowitzmaybe he plans to resign doonApr 29 00:52
schestowitz"69, folks"Apr 29 00:52
schestowitz"job done, goodbye!"Apr 29 00:52
schestowitz*SoonApr 29 00:52
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Intel Gen11+ Graphics See An Easy Bump On Mesa 20.1-devel http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136945#comment-24814 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dbaf2b66-26c9-4319-865d-0915d0ab85ec]Apr 29 00:55
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DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/27/trump-death-toll-projection-coronavirus-213314Apr 29 01:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump raises his virus death toll projection to up to 70,000 in U.S. - POLITICOApr 29 01:17
DaemonFC[m]Slow motion nuclear bomb.Apr 29 01:27
DaemonFC[m]They're reopening things already and it'll accelerate the virus, obviously.Apr 29 01:27
DaemonFC[m]Best case, vaccines s tart going out sometime in september.Apr 29 01:27
DaemonFC[m]So we're looking at 300,000 dead or so probably by the time there's a meaningful number of vaccinated people.Apr 29 01:28
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DaemonFC[m]----Apr 29 01:52
DaemonFC[m]One reason I won't use Instagram is because it requires proprietary software and it tells the other person if you screenshot something. I consider that malicious.Apr 29 01:52
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DaemonFC[m]I don't get who is sending nudes to each other on there not expecting them to be saved.Apr 29 01:52
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XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: The next logical step is DRM, because this sounds mitigatable.Apr 29 01:57
DaemonFC[m]I'm sure that someone has cracked the APK or something.Apr 29 01:58
DaemonFC[m]Instagram sent a DMCA notice to github and had them take down open source software that could access instagram without nasty features like that.Apr 29 01:58
DaemonFC[m]Said it violated their users' copyright.Apr 29 01:58
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oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: question how long will the human body remember the vaccine.Apr 29 03:19
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: and how long to vaccine the population.Apr 29 03:19
oiaohmUSA could be in Covid-19 checkmate and is not waking up to it yet.Apr 29 03:20
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DaemonFC[m]If they admitted that, there'd be riots.Apr 29 03:34
oiaohmThen virus would spread even faster and kill more.Apr 29 03:45
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: the two safest bets are effective quarantines and lockdowns inside infected areas. Apr 29 03:48
oiaohmOther bets like vaccine will fix it could be long shots to impossible.Apr 29 03:50
DaemonFC[m]Vaccine is the only hope here. Remdesivir is crap and Gilead's response was to blame people for leaking the test.Apr 29 03:57
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oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/australia-set-for-chinese-covid-19-vaccine-human-trial-/1821328  so you hoping this stuff works.Apr 29 04:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.aa.com.tr | Australia set for Chinese COVID-19 vaccine human trialApr 29 04:32
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: Ivermectin is also in the o crap pile.  Yes it will work to kill COVID-19 on the dead.  But does required will kill us as well.Apr 29 04:52
DaemonFC[m]Fedora 32 is much faster.Apr 29 05:01
DaemonFC[m]NiceApr 29 05:01
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136955 [https://pleroma.site/objects/356eee6f-2390-4fc2-ad31-42a68e3e6933]Apr 29 05:59
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schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: post screenshots or it didn't happen ;-)Apr 29 06:06
*DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot from 2020-04-28 23-34-44.png (731KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/vjIBkNfIHmjXGhJRFCuvdWPp >Apr 29 06:16
*DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot from 2020-04-28 23-34-36.png (363KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/XmwRJuoMoXiSsBWzaRtsgrsJ >Apr 29 06:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: PixelFed: A potential open-source alternative to Instagram http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136956 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a940b6b6-d92d-43d6-acae-cdd22cf16e44]Apr 29 06:19
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schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: can you do one with techrights?Apr 29 06:22
schestowitzmaybe with a sentence about it, I can do a quick guest post about it in techrightsApr 29 06:22
schestowitzpaying tribute to the devsApr 29 06:22
DaemonFC[m]Which browser?Apr 29 06:23
schestowitzbraceApr 29 06:23
schestowitzbraveApr 29 06:23
DaemonFC[m]I have a lot of extensions.Apr 29 06:25
*DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot from 2020-04-29 00-25-08.png (1644KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zKpwugNAWUUFllrJBsCEAJiE >Apr 29 06:26
DaemonFC[m]Bypass Paywalls, Sponsorblock for Youtube....Apr 29 06:26
DaemonFC[m]The web has a lot of garbage.Apr 29 06:26
schestowitzpurrrfectApr 29 06:26
schestowitzthanksApr 29 06:26
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*DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: Screenshot from 2020-04-29 00-27-35.png (561KB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uRNFyhIzcKiUihpUMjnxPYIo >Apr 29 06:28
DaemonFC[m]The sound system seems different somehow.Apr 29 06:28
DaemonFC[m]No telling why.Apr 29 06:28
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts/Shows: #Nitrux 1.2.8 Run Through, #Lenovo Loves Linux, #mintCast and This Week in #Linux (TWIL) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136957 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fb12cfc4-2ce3-4b3a-b471-a97a50bc9a5e]Apr 29 06:29
schestowitzis the image really that big?Apr 29 06:32
schestowitzis your monitor 3200px across?Apr 29 06:32
schestowitzbecause the mage shows something elseApr 29 06:33
schestowitzoddApr 29 06:33
schestowitzthe meta says it's huge dimensionsApr 29 06:33
schestowitzbut the image isn't the size as the meta's specsApr 29 06:33
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schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: can you sum up the experience in one sentence?Apr 29 06:37
schestowitz(for a quick post)Apr 29 06:37
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DaemonFC[m]3200x1800Apr 29 06:49
DaemonFC[m]It feels like my entire (2016) laptop got a major hardware upgrade and there are many nice user interface improvements. It finally feels like GNOME 3 fully matured.Apr 29 06:51
schestowitzthank you...Apr 29 06:55
schestowitzalmost there now..Apr 29 06:55
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2020/04/29/techrights-on-fedora-32/Apr 29 06:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Techrights on Fedora 32 | TechrightsApr 29 06:56
schestowitzuses your full nameApr 29 06:56
schestowitzwhich I suppose is OK, you used that name publicly before and it is common anyhowApr 29 06:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Techrights on #Fedora 32 http://techrights.org/2020/04/29/techrights-on-fedora-32/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/ab293284-e96a-4e26-91ec-27fcfd8a9437]Apr 29 06:58
schestowitz^this will make some devs happy, improve morale maybApr 29 07:00
schestowitz*maybeApr 29 07:00
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Lenovo will start offering ThinkPads with Linux pre-installed http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136786#comment-24815 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0a5a81c4-5af5-441f-9b9b-18a198f4c4ce]Apr 29 07:05
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, that's fine. :)Apr 29 07:06
DaemonFC[m]<schestowitz "^this will make some devs happy,"> Improve morale? Yeah, it did seem like some movement in the wrong direction was going on there for a while.Apr 29 07:07
DaemonFC[m]Fedora ends up like that sometimes. Some releases are stable and perform well and then they have one that's just completely half-baked.  Apr 29 07:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136958 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0208cc06-d6da-4cb2-a24e-87c4d0714922]Apr 29 07:11
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Adobe Replacements/Alternatives http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136959 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9e7be313-b6e1-4d87-9656-3e2be739e9e9]Apr 29 07:14
DaemonFC[m]I liked how the dnf system upgrade plugin worked well. Fedora didn't used to be terribly easy to upgrade. It would result in a broken system as often as a working one. Their answer was to clean install and reuse your home partition.Apr 29 07:14
DaemonFC[m]That's just not something you want to hear when picking an OS.Apr 29 07:15
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: BashTop is a Linux Resource Monitor for the Terminal http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136943#comment-24817 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8e6a5990-5760-4aa6-b23b-65e238a1af5d]Apr 29 07:17
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: lenovo will preinstall it soonApr 29 07:18
schestowitzrianne uses lenovo, but with debianApr 29 07:18
schestowitzit feels a little sluggish sometimesApr 29 07:18
schestowitzmaybe due to low ramApr 29 07:18
schestowitzmine is a lot faster, same OSApr 29 07:18
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Jitsi Meet, my favourite video conferencing platform (and a way to share audio when using it in Linux) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136960 [https://pleroma.site/objects/41c105b5-8ab5-44d5-b34d-1cafed0180a5]Apr 29 07:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: VLC 3.0.10 Adds SMB2/3 Support, Improved Chromecast Audio http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136940#comment-24818 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ccec4d29-2cee-40ce-88a1-e2d28358a825]Apr 29 07:24
DaemonFC[m]> maybe due to low ramApr 29 07:27
DaemonFC[m]Seems Fedora 32 is improved on that front.Apr 29 07:27
DaemonFC[m]Less resource consumption on the Shell again and less jank.Apr 29 07:28
DaemonFC[m]EarlyOOMApr 29 07:28
schestowitzgood, I guessApr 29 07:29
schestowitzanyway, she doesn't do very heavy things on itApr 29 07:29
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schestowitzkate, thunderbird, firefox, vpn, sshApr 29 07:29
DaemonFC[m]https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/EnableEarlyoomApr 29 07:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fedoraproject.org | Changes/EnableEarlyoom - Fedora Project WikiApr 29 07:30
DaemonFC[m]OOM-Killer in the kernel has insane default behavior.Apr 29 07:30
DaemonFC[m]This tries to shut down something that's making the system unusable as cleanly as possible and avoid swap thrashing.Apr 29 07:31
schestowitzPhoronix write a lot about earsyoomApr 29 07:32
schestowitz*earlyoomApr 29 07:32
schestowitztbh, not many people pay attention to ram usageApr 29 07:33
schestowitzI quit checking when I finally got more than 2 gb of ram 2 months agoApr 29 07:33
schestowitzsaves me a lot of hassleApr 29 07:33
schestowitzI used to reopen software instances just to 'take them out of swapApr 29 07:33
schestowitz(so to speak)Apr 29 07:33
schestowitzDocker training and Kubernetes today...Apr 29 07:34
schestowitzso many bits of hypeApr 29 07:34
schestowitz(not that VMs are better)Apr 29 07:35
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 32 Released. This is What's New. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136961 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d4b09fa2-630f-4ba0-8609-10da632808b5]Apr 29 07:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 32 Released! Check Out The New Features http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136961#comment-24819 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d6d0372a-882b-4b2f-a3a8-96924dbdae90]Apr 29 07:54
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Education, Beam Your Program To Another Computer, and Raspberry Pi 4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136962 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5dae9e57-f7f3-44aa-afec-ea55b06bc3d1]Apr 29 08:04
schestowitzI have just moved away from a dark kde themeApr 29 08:29
schestowitzI'll try lighter one againApr 29 08:29
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XRevan86> https://bash.im/quote/460998Apr 29 09:07
XRevan86> M: It is time for the Americans to plough up their lawns for potatoes and other vegetables planting.Apr 29 09:07
XRevan86> S (lives in the US): We are in a free nation, so this is not allowed! :)Apr 29 09:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bash.im | Цитата #460998 – Цитатник РунетаApr 29 09:07
XRevan86Quote Database wisdom %).Apr 29 09:07
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schestowitzmeh...Apr 29 09:20
schestowitzthey farm food locally aplentyApr 29 09:20
schestowitzenough to feed the US maybe twice over, BUT...Apr 29 09:20
schestowitzguess who farms it for the USApr 29 09:20
schestowitzforeign workers brought in, inc. many MexicansApr 29 09:20
schestowitzwhom they then like to demonise... the hardest of all workers perhapsApr 29 09:21
XRevan86schestowitz: It's about providing for oneself personally dacha-style.Apr 29 09:21
schestowitzit doesn't scale wellApr 29 09:21
schestowitzif you live close to a cityApr 29 09:21
schestowitzand you lack access to fertilisers etc.Apr 29 09:21
schestowitzalso machineryApr 29 09:21
XRevan86schestowitz: Machinery? On a dacha?Apr 29 09:22
XRevan86http://superda4nik.ru/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/p_1295_1464417861_349.jpgApr 29 09:23
XRevan86https://idealsad.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/ogorod-foto-06.jpgApr 29 09:24
XRevan86not commercialApr 29 09:24
XRevan86I don't take it seriously, because when shit fits the fan, property can be taken away anyway.Apr 29 09:27
XRevan86* hitsApr 29 09:27
XRevan86But it's still something that for Usonians it's just problematic in the suburbs to grow their own cucumbers even just for fun %).Apr 29 09:28
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schestowitzXRevan86: takes a lot of spaceApr 29 09:43
schestowitzfine if you live away from centre of townApr 29 09:43
schestowitzbut not in apartment of a detached/terraced unitApr 29 09:43
schestowitzjust not enough roomApr 29 09:43
schestowitzXRevan86: araik, in russia large concrete housing is commonApr 29 09:59
schestowitzapartments where the option of having any garden at all is prohibitive at bestApr 29 10:00
schestowitzand let's face it, humans aren't well distributedApr 29 10:00
schestowitzwhich I guess is good for nature/wildlifeApr 29 10:00
XRevan86schestowitz: Well, yea, that's how it's usually done: a flat in a large building + sometimes a dacha if nature's calling.Apr 29 10:01
schestowitzthat means urinatingApr 29 10:01
XRevan86schestowitz: Well, at least not a sexual act.Apr 29 10:02
XRevan86here I was, trying to be poetic %)Apr 29 10:04
XRevan86schestowitz: I saw in a video a bunny peeing, and the person filming said "aw, he's going to be bathroom", now that's just ridiculous.Apr 29 10:07
XRevan86For two reasons even: 1. I could see the literal act, what's even the point of using an euphemism; 2. it makes no literal sense, there's only one way to understand this; what is even the point of the euphemism then.Apr 29 10:13
XRevan86Maybe this wouldn't've rubbed me so much if I didn't have separated toilet and bathroom %).Apr 29 10:15
XRevan86This euphemism can cause misunderstandings, which is against the point of trying to hide the true purpose of going away.Apr 29 10:15
XRevan86* against the purposeApr 29 10:18
XRevan86Stupid correction. Oh well. Nature can call in more than one way anyway %).Apr 29 10:26
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*XRevan86 accidentally found: https://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=441172&cid=22290496Apr 29 12:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-developers.slashdot.org | Is XMPP the 'Next Big Thing' - SlashdotApr 29 12:08
XRevan86Oi, the future was bright…Apr 29 12:08
MinceR:>Apr 29 12:09
MinceRwell, the future of the planet is still brightApr 29 12:09
MinceRit will be very bright when the Sun goes red giant and engulfs the planetApr 29 12:09
MinceRhttps://github.com/JohnAZoidberg/morse-sigusr-ipcApr 29 12:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - JohnAZoidberg/morse-sigusr-ipc: IPC via SIGUSR1 and SIGUSR2 using Morse codeApr 29 12:10
schestowitzPeter Bright was arrestedApr 29 12:10
schestowitzliked to sexually abuse kidsApr 29 12:10
schestowitzputting his thing inside themApr 29 12:10
XRevan86no future for Bright?Apr 29 12:11
MinceR:>Apr 29 12:11
schestowitznoApr 29 12:11
schestowitzhe still has a twitter accountApr 29 12:11
MinceRhe finds out the hard way that he isn't rich enough to get away with this :>Apr 29 12:11
schestowitzI saw it yesterday as someone mentioned himApr 29 12:11
schestowitz(when linking to techrights)Apr 29 12:11
schestowitzhe was here in IRC, after we had blasted himApr 29 12:11
schestowitzhe literally used the nickname "drpizza"Apr 29 12:12
XRevan86schestowitz: What nick has he had?Apr 29 12:12
XRevan86ohApr 29 12:12
schestowitzyou can search our irc logsApr 29 12:12
schestowitziirc, pizza is code for young boyApr 29 12:13
schestowitzin the sexual senseApr 29 12:13
schestowitzpeter was no doctorApr 29 12:13
MinceRi didn't know about that codeApr 29 12:13
schestowitzpushing prepared 'articles' from microsoft at dayApr 29 12:13
schestowitzat night, arranging with parents to have sex with childrenApr 29 12:13
schestowitzMinceR: I elarned about that from wikileaks because of podesta leaksApr 29 12:13
schestowitzmap means semen, iircApr 29 12:14
schestowitzso when you read text messages and stuff you need to know the words they use as coverApr 29 12:14
schestowitzthe FBI has a listApr 29 12:14
schestowitztbh, I try to stay away from these topicsApr 29 12:16
XRevan86map, filter, list, array, tuple, dict…Apr 29 12:16
schestowitz1) because of people who obsess over themApr 29 12:16
schestowitz(qanon etc.)Apr 29 12:16
schestowitz(maybe by intention, maybe the idea is to discredit those who speak about it)Apr 29 12:16
schestowitz2) it's grossApr 29 12:16
schestowitz3) I have little knowledge in that area, either as victim or  abuser. In fact, growing up I rarely know about those things, people don't talk much about it, rarely even papersApr 29 12:17
schestowitz(parents would typically say things like, "don't talk to strangers", but they don't say why)Apr 29 12:17
schestowitzXRevan86: I forgot the terms, but wikileaks tweeted a link to the official FBI docsApr 29 12:18
XRevan86(there is more than one reason)Apr 29 12:18
schestowitzI think wikileaks got lots of flack for itApr 29 12:18
schestowitzlike it was emboldening nutty typesApr 29 12:18
schestowitzincluding armed people who wanted "justice" over podestaApr 29 12:18
schestowitz"pizzagate"Apr 29 12:19
schestowitzand then wikileaks was said to have promoted conspiracy theoriesApr 29 12:19
XRevan86schestowitz: Well, it doesn't really matter, as those making up the terms will probably continue making new ones.Apr 29 12:19
schestowitzthey doApr 29 12:19
XRevan86so it only matters in one specific timeframeApr 29 12:19
schestowitzthat's what makes it tricky for themApr 29 12:19
schestowitzapparently the issue is more widespread than reportedApr 29 12:20
schestowitzI heard stories from a relative who was a teacher and in her class there was a kid who was 'hired' for sex by the parentsApr 29 12:20
schestowitzeven the teacher was shocked, didn't know such things were being doneApr 29 12:21
XRevan86schestowitz: That is indeed insane.Apr 29 12:21
XRevan86unheard ofApr 29 12:21
schestowitzapparently not so uncommonApr 29 12:21
schestowitzand if you look at certain countries it might be rather commonApr 29 12:22
schestowitzand not even considered illegal, or the law not enforcedApr 29 12:22
XRevan86What parent would possibly sell their child for some childhood trauma?Apr 29 12:24
MinceRthere are many bad parentsApr 29 12:24
schestowitzones who want money or something, obviouslyApr 29 12:24
schestowitzthere are also foster patents who abuse or use kidsApr 29 12:24
schestowitzfor money etc.Apr 29 12:24
schestowitz*parentsApr 29 12:25
XRevan86MinceR: This is beyond bad.Apr 29 12:25
MinceRyeah, humans are horribleApr 29 12:25
MinceRand horrible humans reproduceApr 29 12:25
MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/662553.pngApr 29 12:32
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XRevan86MinceR: This is immediately a classic.Apr 29 12:32
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kingoffranceeh, if you are doing something shady and want to blackmail people into silence.....that stuff doesnt seem so far fetched    cui bono? Apr 29 13:17
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MinceRhttp://surrounder.nl/misogyny.jpgApr 29 14:11
schestowitzweird messageApr 29 14:12
schestowitzeven if seen as a jokeApr 29 14:12
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XRevan86It's just someone being a moron.Apr 29 14:18
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MinceR(cat) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/01/26/988fbea324a4f630.mp4Apr 29 16:48
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MinceRhttps://hugelolcdn.com/i/662550.jpgApr 29 17:04
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MinceR(audio:important) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqnyJcvIMH0Apr 29 17:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-a guy who never figured out the walt disney logo - YouTubeApr 29 17:39
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scientesXRevan86, it feels like Coronavirus is headed to where Hijabs are in IranApr 29 18:19
scientes(AFAIU)Apr 29 18:19
scienteswith the mandatory masksApr 29 18:19
scientesbut from the news other places are much more psycotic, with the quarantinesApr 29 18:20
scientesI guess we do have a curfew here however....but why can't people appreciate the value of street lights (and give thanks that the power is on)?Apr 29 18:21
XRevan86scientes: Yea, because wearing germ protection is exactly like mandatory faith-induced horny-men-inhibitors.Apr 29 18:21
scientesXRevan86, totally agreeApr 29 18:21
scientes(sarcasm ignored)Apr 29 18:23
XRevan86Little people getting inside of you and then expoiting you to make more of themselves slowly killing you in the process? Give me some of what you're smoking, man. What a freak-show, almost as bad as that grey-vee-tea thing.Apr 29 18:27
scientes"slowly killing you"Apr 29 18:27
scientesflu is not slowApr 29 18:27
XRevan86Speed is relative.Apr 29 18:28
scienteseven Malaria is slower AFAIUApr 29 18:28
XRevan86Relatively to a bullet very slow.Apr 29 18:28
scientesbecause of the dorment phase in the liverApr 29 18:28
scientesahhhhh....when I think something is SPanish and it turns out to be portugeseApr 29 18:30
scientesas someone that doesn't know portugese, it also sounds like funny spanishApr 29 18:31
scientes*alwaysApr 29 18:31
XRevan86And then there's more than one Spanish.Apr 29 18:32
scientesWikipedia seems to be written with more Lain, beause I find it easier to readApr 29 18:33
scientesthan the one translated book I have (that is easy reading---Around the World in 80 Days, originally in French)Apr 29 18:33
scientesI've been reading about the Era de los DiscubrimentosApr 29 18:33
XRevan86Latin America – because Romance languages like Spanish are dominant; more Latin Spanish – because from Latin AmericaApr 29 18:34
XRevan86If this isn't circular logic, I don't know what is :)Apr 29 18:34
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scientesheheheheheApr 29 18:34
scienteswell when I talked to a native speaker of both spanish and english (from Spain) he said there was a mix between old spanish and new spanishApr 29 18:35
scientesI don't really know the details---but Spanish is a much older language than EnglishApr 29 18:35
scienteslike CervantesApr 29 18:35
XRevan86scientes: You know all "natural" languages are of the same undefined age, right? %)Apr 29 18:36
XRevan86go all the way backApr 29 18:36
scientes?????Apr 29 18:36
scientesare you differentiating from pidgin languages?Apr 29 18:36
XRevan86and except pidgins and creols, those have a dateApr 29 18:36
scientesbut like English of Shakespeare is very differn't from the victorian ageApr 29 18:37
scientesand English is largely the same as victorian ageApr 29 18:37
XRevan86scientes: So what you mean is that English has seen more rapid change in the recent centuries than Spanish has.Apr 29 18:37
scientes(except the US 19th century stuff is HORRIBLE, and my thesis is that there was just really high illiteracy)Apr 29 18:37
XRevan86or the opposite?Apr 29 18:37
scientesI don't know enough to sayApr 29 18:38
scientesthere are enough differences that there is usually a choice between spanish and south american spanishApr 29 18:38
scientesall, the US was full of non-native speakersApr 29 18:39
XRevan86scientes: Yea, English variants that get their own standard don't have that much difference between them.Apr 29 18:39
scientesI'm talking about all that pompous "thou" stuffApr 29 18:39
XRevan86(and those that do get disregarded)Apr 29 18:39
scientesand not KJV which really isn't that badApr 29 18:39
scientes(KJV bible)Apr 29 18:39
XRevan86scientes: Ironic since "thou" went out of fashion for being too vulgar.Apr 29 18:39
scientesthe problem is translations from that era are really pretentiousApr 29 18:40
XRevan86scientes: It's what a Russian would call "ты-кание".Apr 29 18:40
scientesand because of copyright laws that is often the only free versionApr 29 18:40
XRevan86A familiar pronoun as opposed to a "polite You"Apr 29 18:41
scientesLike the free translation of Lès Miserables is really pretentiousApr 29 18:41
scientescompared to the main modern one (I think there are two)Apr 29 18:41
XRevan86Again, "thou" is not pretentious (well, maybe it is now as it is practically a relic).Apr 29 18:41
scientesXRevan86, it isn't, but it is often used to be "correct", but it is more that they are proving their literacyApr 29 18:42
scientesinstead of just communicatingApr 29 18:42
scientesin that period in the USApr 29 18:42
XRevan86Like "look what I know, hast thou known this posh pronoun?"Apr 29 18:42
scientesexactamenteApr 29 18:42
scientes*knownstApr 29 18:43
XRevan86scientes: Have you known, has she known – you can notice that "known" doesn't change.Apr 29 18:43
scientesThis problem goes away after the invention of radioApr 29 18:43
XRevan86Only "have" gets to be conjugated in English in this case %).Apr 29 18:43
scientesand England didn't seem to have this problem, as it was going through its golden ageApr 29 18:44
scientesand those with money were very literateApr 29 18:44
scientesand passionate about science and phamphletsApr 29 18:44
XRevan86scientes: Or were you sarcasm'ing?Apr 29 18:44
scientesnoApr 29 18:45
scientesbut I guess the KJV is just OK because it is so commonApr 29 18:45
scientesit was it what I hadApr 29 18:45
XRevan86scientes: In series and cartoons I have noticed some really weird stuff like posh usage of "thou" as a plural too, "ye olde" actually pronounced with a "y"… why do they do that…Apr 29 18:46
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XRevan86I think in Futurama I heard "actually it's "octopi" and not "octopuses""Apr 29 18:47
XRevan86and in some other cartoons, enough to make a mental note on itApr 29 18:47
scientesheheheheApr 29 18:47
scienteswhen I was a kid we would try to learn all thoseApr 29 18:47
scientesand we never got themApr 29 18:47
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scientesI mean, I know doe, buck, deer, kid, fowl, et ceteraApr 29 18:48
scientesbut stillApr 29 18:48
XRevan86scientes: It's octopusesApr 29 18:48
scientesthe plurals are much more esotericApr 29 18:48
XRevan86or "octopodes" if you hate "octopuses"Apr 29 18:48
scientesand there is much middle inglès influence, such as "mice"Apr 29 18:48
scientesoctopodes is very latinApr 29 18:48
scientesmaybe octopièsApr 29 18:48
XRevan86scientes: It is in fact Greek %)Apr 29 18:48
scienteso ocho pièsApr 29 18:49
XRevan86and Latin too, actually…Apr 29 18:50
XRevan86you're rightApr 29 18:50
XRevan86https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus#Latin plural: octōpodēsApr 29 18:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | octopus - WiktionaryApr 29 18:51
XRevan86and https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ὀκτώπους#Ancient_Greek plural: ὀκτώποδεςApr 29 18:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | ὀκτώπους - WiktionaryApr 29 18:52
XRevan86Is it weird how similiar Latin's and Greek's declensions are?Apr 29 18:52
XRevan86> Words borrowed from Greek's third declension are inflected with a varying mixture of Greek and Latin case endings.Apr 29 18:52
XRevan86Ah, Latin did the same thing English does now.Apr 29 18:53
XRevan86loans declensions tooApr 29 18:53
scientesI still am super not use to this who "bazillions of languages" thingApr 29 18:53
scientesit is not like that in the AmericasApr 29 18:53
XRevan86scientes: Luckily for us there's Wiktionary.Apr 29 18:54
scientesbut why are all words under English?Apr 29 18:54
XRevan86That will explain the whole zamies for us :)Apr 29 18:54
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XRevan86scientes: Because English grabs everything with "mine-mine-mine"? :DApr 29 18:55
scienteswell, that is trueApr 29 18:55
scientesFrench tries to do the opposite AFAIKApr 29 18:55
scientesthey were telling people not to use "blog"Apr 29 18:55
scientesbecause it is too angloApr 29 18:55
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XRevan86scientes: I think that there should be a balance between loaning and… avoiding unnecessary loans.Apr 29 18:56
scientesXRevan86, there is a venue for everything /sarcasmApr 29 18:57
scientesespecially the way English butchers that wordApr 29 18:57
XRevan86venue?Apr 29 18:57
scientesyesApr 29 18:57
scientesits FrenchApr 29 18:57
XRevan86Of course it's French :DApr 29 18:58
scientesFrench culture is one of those thing I prefer to observe from afarApr 29 18:59
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XRevan86scientes: especially, butcher – FrenchApr 29 18:59
XRevan86culture, prefer, observe – FrenchApr 29 19:00
scientesThere was a time where they had great nuclear electricityApr 29 19:00
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XRevan86nuclear, electric – Latin, actually.Apr 29 19:01
scientesElectra, EuripedesApr 29 19:02
XRevan86scientes: Most of the words in English are of French origin, so it's kind of a rule of thumb – if it's a noun, it's probably from French %)Apr 29 19:03
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XRevan86works 80% of the timeApr 29 19:03
scientesit has anglo tooApr 29 19:04
XRevan86most != allApr 29 19:04
scientesit has basically everythingApr 29 19:04
scientesexcept maybe arabicApr 29 19:04
XRevan86scientes: French is the most common source still.Apr 29 19:04
scientesi don't know any french howeverApr 29 19:05
scientesbut yeah I hear it is French minus the complicated grammerApr 29 19:05
XRevan86https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_terms_borrowed_from_ArabicApr 29 19:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | Category:English terms borrowed from Arabic - WiktionaryApr 29 19:05
scientesSpanish has much more arabicApr 29 19:05
scientesbecause of the historyApr 29 19:05
XRevan86scientes: That's also not true. It's more of a Romance carcass put on top of a Germanic skeleton.Apr 29 19:06
scientes^^^Apr 29 19:06
scientesyeahApr 29 19:06
scientesI suddenly have a strong urge to try to think in SpanishApr 29 19:07
scientesI will have to read Wikipedia every day for that to happenApr 29 19:07
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*XRevan86 often thinks in English when thinks about concepts learnt with English.Apr 29 19:08
scientesI only read about stuff I am already familiar withApr 29 19:09
scientesmakes it much easier to readApr 29 19:09
scientes Además, acuñó el término neolatino electricus (que, a su vez, proviene de ήλεκτρον [elektron], la palabra griega para ámbar) para referirse a la propiedad de atraer pequeños objetos después de haberlos frotado.11​ Esto originó los términos eléctrico y electricidad, que aparecen por vez primera en 1646 en la publicación Pseudodoxia Epidemica de Thomas Browne.12​ Apr 29 19:09
XRevan86scientes: A lot of information I take in is in English, so you can see where I'm coming from.Apr 29 19:10
scientesso not EuripidesApr 29 19:10
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scienteswell yeah programming has this "english only" attitudeApr 29 19:18
XRevan86scientes: It definitely has.Apr 29 19:18
scientesAFAIK engineering is not at all like thatApr 29 19:19
XRevan86English has ensured its dominance in IT %)Apr 29 19:19
scientesfor open source I kinda get it....Apr 29 19:19
XRevan86scientes: It's always easier to learn the necessary vocabulary than to try to reinvent the wheel in a local language.Apr 29 19:20
XRevan86Especially when the result is abominations like what 1C has.Apr 29 19:20
scienteswell yeah the words are so specialized tooApr 29 19:20
scienteslike "string" or "pointer" et ceteraApr 29 19:20
scientesprogramming is SO full of jargon too, because so much is so abstractApr 29 19:21
scientesits really hard sometimes to cut through the jargonApr 29 19:22
XRevan86scientes: Indeed. I guess it's more English-based than actual English.Apr 29 19:22
scientes"pointer" is hardly even an English wordApr 29 19:22
scientesexcept "laser pointer"Apr 29 19:23
XRevan86scientes: указкаApr 29 19:23
XRevan86that's also a pointerApr 29 19:23
XRevan86apparently also called a fescueApr 29 19:23
scientesor dereferenceApr 29 19:23
scientesor referenceApr 29 19:24
XRevan86scientes: "reference" is perfectly normalApr 29 19:25
scientesi was mentioning synonyms of pointerApr 29 19:25
XRevan86now "dereference" is truly jargonApr 29 19:25
scientes"dereference a pointer"Apr 29 19:25
scientesor programming's use of "deprecated"Apr 29 19:25
XRevan86scientes: "pointer" makes sense, because it is a variable that points to an address.Apr 29 19:26
XRevan86so… a pointerApr 29 19:26
XRevan86"deprecated" – yes, also jargonApr 29 19:26
scientesXRevan86, but a pointer *IS* an addressApr 29 19:26
scientesat least in the English use of the word addressApr 29 19:26
scienteson mailApr 29 19:27
XRevan86Which will probably spread into other areas too, as its meaning is applicable for many applications.Apr 29 19:27
scientesdeprecate is English for "to strongly discourage"Apr 29 19:27
XRevan86scientes: pointer is not an address, it's a variable holding an addressApr 29 19:27
scientesXRevan86, but that would be a "location"Apr 29 19:27
scienteswhen i write a letter, I write the persons *address* on itApr 29 19:27
scienteson the envelopeApr 29 19:28
scientesbefore sending itApr 29 19:28
scientesthis word is also used in ipv4 ipv6 packetsApr 29 19:28
scientessource and destination *address*Apr 29 19:28
scientesof course 2D is quite differen't from RAM which is addressed linearlyApr 29 19:29
XRevan86scientes: It doesn't have to make "real world" analogies this far.Apr 29 19:29
scientesanyways, just showing it is so jargon-heavyApr 29 19:29
scienteswhen mentioned in the news they translated "bug" to something IIRCApr 29 19:30
scientesand I forgot which word because it wasn't computer-EnglishApr 29 19:30
XRevan86error? mistake? failure?Apr 29 19:31
scientesbecause the writer is like "we can't say bug, that makes no sense at all"Apr 29 19:31
scienteseven github avoids the wordApr 29 19:31
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XRevan86scientes: But you can see how "pointer" on the contrary does make literal sense.Apr 29 19:32
scientesits fineApr 29 19:32
XRevan86And bug, spam – those just make poetic, metaphorical senseApr 29 19:33
scientesyes, its good poetryApr 29 19:33
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XRevan86And "dereference" is just made up %)Apr 29 19:34
scientesbut "debugging" I mean seriouslyApr 29 19:34
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scientesis that what monkeys do when picking out each other's lice?Apr 29 19:34
XRevan86scientes: Should've been bugsquashing :DApr 29 19:34
scientesyeah that is betterApr 29 19:34
XRevan86gbs – GNU Bug SquasherApr 29 19:34
scientesthat's nicely poeticApr 29 19:35
XRevan86to debug → to squashApr 29 19:35
scientesXRevan86, and then "load" and "store" is usually only used in assemblyApr 29 19:35
XRevan86scientes: Have you noticed that vectors are not vectors?Apr 29 19:38
MinceRwhy would they not be?Apr 29 19:38
scientesnever really thought about that one beforeApr 29 19:38
scientesbut yeahApr 29 19:38
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MinceRvectors are single-dimensional matricesApr 29 19:38
scientesbut to me it was always a given that computer math is bastardized math, except for the fact that it now get more attention.....Apr 29 19:39
scientesthere was just never any effort to match math notationApr 29 19:39
scienteslike horrible use of = in assignmentApr 29 19:39
scientesinstead of, like <-, ->, which should be usedApr 29 19:39
XRevan86MinceR: Because vectors have a fixed length.Apr 29 19:40
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scientesXRevan86, there is a ARM vector arch with variable lengthApr 29 19:41
scientesactually two with variable lengthApr 29 19:41
XRevan86scientes: That's "(computing) vector" :)Apr 29 19:41
MinceRXRevan86: are variables defined in mathematics? :>Apr 29 19:41
scientesMinceR, no, but TAoCP actually tries to not butcher math notationApr 29 19:42
XRevan86MinceR: You know, when something not called a vector is closer to a vector than a vector, then something's fishy.Apr 29 19:42
scienteswith wierd C-ismsApr 29 19:42
XRevan86scientes: That's a C++-ismApr 29 19:42
MinceRXRevan86: what is that "something"?Apr 29 19:42
XRevan86MinceR: static arrayApr 29 19:42
scientesXRevan86, as someone that has done a fair amount of vector programming, the compiler/language support is absolutely shitApr 29 19:42
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scientesgcc and llvm now have pretty good support, but it isn't really exposed to any languageApr 29 19:43
scientesI think the main problem is the slow turn-around to be usable in improving the compilerApr 29 19:47
scientesMy main problem is always that I am a linguist, so I get caught up in my own thinking, and then can't nail anything downApr 29 19:47
scientesalso, in zig there was a technical mistake after which I gave up....Apr 29 19:48
XRevan86scientes: What mistake?Apr 29 19:48
scienteshmmm, let me rememberApr 29 19:48
MinceRXRevan86: so, how are variables defined in mathematics?Apr 29 19:48
scientesMinceR, variables introduce the 4th dimension of timeApr 29 19:49
scientesso I don't think that is generally thought of as "math"Apr 29 19:49
scientesalso the math-heavy grammers are all SSAApr 29 19:50
scientesso don't have variablesApr 29 19:50
MinceRseems like this distinction does not appear in mathematics, thenApr 29 19:50
scientescompilers prefer SSAApr 29 19:50
XRevan86MinceR: You can also notice that there exist languages like Erlang/Elixir that do not have variables per-se at all.Apr 29 19:50
MinceRyes, impractical languages do existApr 29 19:50
scientesXRevan86, or the common LLVM-IRApr 29 19:51
MinceRthen there's SIMPLE, which doesn't even have constants, values or symbolsApr 29 19:51
MinceRjust BEGIN, END and STOPApr 29 19:51
XRevan86MinceR: Elixir is what https://pleroma.site/schestowitz (site) written in.Apr 29 19:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | PleromaApr 29 19:51
scientesmy feet hurt so much right nowApr 29 19:51
MinceRdoes this make algorithms that rely on mutable state stop existing?Apr 29 19:52
scienteslast week I walked 40km in one day, and they didn't hurt as much as todayApr 29 19:52
scienteswhen I only walked a few kmsApr 29 19:52
XRevan86MinceR: It means that programming without mutable state is not non-existent.Apr 29 19:52
MinceRit does?Apr 29 19:52
MinceRstrangeApr 29 19:52
MinceRi thought that's what this whole "pure functional" fad was all aboutApr 29 19:53
XRevan86MinceR: And so here's a question: would you call an immutable math-y array from Elixir a vector?Apr 29 19:53
scientesyeah, I don't really know what functional programming isApr 29 19:53
MinceRif i used it in elixir (which is unlikely), i'd call it whatever elixir calls itApr 29 19:53
scientescomputers are fundamentally proceduralApr 29 19:53
MinceRthe closest i know is a python tupleApr 29 19:53
scientesso it all has to end up thereApr 29 19:53
XRevan86scientes: Programming centred around pure functions.Apr 29 19:54
scientesthat's why I ended up in C: I wanted to have some awareness of what the computer was actually doingApr 29 19:54
scientesXRevan86, C would be much nicer if you could use slices so many more things could be marked pureApr 29 19:55
scientescause pointers always mean you can't do thatApr 29 19:55
XRevan86scientes: You know, C is C.Apr 29 19:55
scientesanyways, I got into the whole zig thingApr 29 19:55
scientesbut then had to step away from itApr 29 19:56
scientesbut it is pretty coolApr 29 19:56
MinceRmove zig !!Apr 29 19:56
scientesit has the same problem as other languages though (except basically C) where it develops its own cult that can't see the world outside of itApr 29 19:57
scientesits easy to get miopic like thatApr 29 19:57
scienteswhich is why I like CApr 29 19:57
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scientesanyways, I'm blabberingApr 29 19:58
scientesI need to sleepApr 29 19:58
MinceRgood reason to know multiple languagesApr 29 19:58
XRevan86> if i used it in elixir (which is unlikely), i'd call it whatever elixir calls itApr 29 19:59
XRevan86MinceR: Not the point. It's a hypothetical situation reason for which is to remove variables from consideration.Apr 29 19:59
XRevan86and to get closer to math with functional programmingApr 29 20:00
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MinceRwouldn't it be even closer to math to not program at all? :>Apr 29 20:00
XRevan86So what should be called with a math-y term vector – something farther from math with dynamic allocation and all that or… not that?Apr 29 20:03
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MinceRwhatever holds a single-dimensional matrix could be called a vectorApr 29 20:13
XRevan86with push and popApr 29 20:14
XRevan86MinceR: An associative array can also hold it.Apr 29 20:15
MinceRthen you should call them vectorsApr 29 20:16
MinceRand people will laugh at youApr 29 20:16
XRevan86MinceR: Indeed they will.Apr 29 20:16
MinceRthough iirc that's how lua does arraysApr 29 20:17
XRevan86MinceR: I had PHP in mind.Apr 29 20:18
XRevan86but yesApr 29 20:18
XRevan86MinceR: If you indeed put a vector there, it's perfectly valid to call that variable soApr 29 20:19
XRevan86but as a name of the type it still doesn't hold upApr 29 20:19
XRevan86Heck, you can store a vector in a linked list.Apr 29 20:19
MinceRand you might even want toApr 29 20:19
MinceRyou could also store one in a dequeApr 29 20:20
XRevan86heaps, stacks, all that tooApr 29 20:20
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XRevan86A fixed ordered unassociative array is still the closest thing to a mathematical vector.Apr 29 20:23
MinceRand a mutable, resizable unassociative array is exactly as close to a mathematical vectorApr 29 20:23
XRevan86MinceR: That it can hold it doesn't make it similiar in any way.Apr 29 20:25
MinceRall the differences are orthogonal to mathematicsApr 29 20:25
MinceRhttps://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2dApr 29 20:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - 2DApr 29 20:26
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XRevan86MinceR: If you take a professional mathematician or a physicist, give them examples of arrays, which one are they more likely to pick as something that resembles?Apr 29 20:28
XRevan86a vectorApr 29 20:28
XRevan86something they'd rather call "vector"Apr 29 20:28
XRevan86Because with semantics reasonable expectations are pretty much key, I think.Apr 29 20:29
XRevan86MinceR: Yes, we're literally arguing over semantics :).Apr 29 20:30
MinceRi doubt you'll find a professional mathematician or physicist who is totally unaware of programming todayApr 29 20:30
XRevan86MinceR: It is a thought experiment. Time travel is allowed :DApr 29 20:31
MinceRin any case, i suspect the whole deal of what was called an "array", "vector" or "list" is simply historicalApr 29 20:31
MinceRwhichever was needed first, which term came to the programmer's mind firstApr 29 20:31
XRevan86MinceR: That is indeed true.Apr 29 20:31
XRevan86MinceR: But remember that this started from a discussion of computing-specific jargonApr 29 20:31
MinceRdid someone say that the array/vector/list/tuple distinction is not computing-specific? :>Apr 29 20:32
XRevan86MinceR: "vector" is an example of jargon that doesn't work outside of computing, it was made up in place.Apr 29 20:33
MinceRdepends on which aspectApr 29 20:34
MinceRthe aspect of it that exists outside of computing, works there :>Apr 29 20:34
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XRevan86MinceR: I found this: https://stackoverflow.com/a/758548 %)Apr 29 20:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stackoverflow.com | stl - Why is a C++ Vector called a Vector? - Stack OverflowApr 29 20:35
XRevan86> It's called a vector because Alex Stepanov, the designer of the Standard Template Library, was looking for a name to distinguish it from built-in arrays. He admits now that he made a mistakeApr 29 20:35
XRevan86> The comment about it being a mistake can be found in his book "From mathematics to Generic programming"Apr 29 20:35
MinceRyes, that recapitulates my historical argument in specificsApr 29 20:35
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MinceRalso, there's no explanation of why he thinks it's a mistakeApr 29 20:36
XRevan86> There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things -- Phil KarltonApr 29 20:39
MinceRapparently in Common Lisp vectors can have a preset size or a variable sizeApr 29 20:43
MinceRhttp://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_vector.htmApr 29 20:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.lispworks.com | CLHS: System Class VECTORApr 29 20:43
XRevan86MinceR: That works.Apr 29 20:43
MinceRand apparently arrays can have more dimensionsApr 29 20:44
XRevan86MinceR: That distinction in Lisp is sensible.Apr 29 20:45
MinceR(cat) https://full.pr0gramm.com/2015/10/29/15350f1232b9982b.jpgApr 29 20:47
MinceRhttps://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/vintageApr 29 21:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.smbc-comics.com | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - VintageApr 29 21:07
kingoffrancescientes, the us is still 99% illiterate on all topics .   not much has changedApr 29 21:12
kingoffrance"american citizen" doesnt exist, federal or state are the 2 only possible options, and variants thereof. 99% of people are talking gibberishApr 29 21:13
kingoffrance99% of the timeApr 29 21:13
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MinceRhttps://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/charlottes-webApr 29 21:33
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cubexyzI think if you were to read english books from the 18th century you would notice a definite difference to current englishApr 29 22:43
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cubexyz19th century not so much, it would be more of a difference in style and phraseology Apr 29 22:44
cubexyzhere is an interesting one:Apr 29 22:46
cubexyz"A name has not yet been found for horseless carriages... The latest suggestion we have had is 'motor car'. Daily Chronicle (25 October 1895)"Apr 29 22:47
cubexyzno one now would say "motor car"Apr 29 22:47
XRevan86cubexyz: I've heard it sometimesApr 29 22:48
XRevan86It makes sense since "car" is also used for train cars.Apr 29 22:48
cubexyzXRevan86, trueApr 29 22:48
XRevan86But at the same time, motor cars are much more prevalent in speech, so no wonder they're the ones that get to be the default.Apr 29 22:49
XRevan86cubexyz: But if you have a sentence in which it is ambiguous which car you mean, motor car can pop up. Albeit more likely the word "automobile" will be used instead.Apr 29 22:50
cubexyzyes I was trying to think of recent changes in english, say the last 120+ years or soApr 29 22:50
cubexyzyes, that's a fair pointApr 29 22:51
XRevan86cubexyz: A lot of new slang and phraseologisms that got mainstream.Apr 29 22:51
XRevan86New euphemisms, for which schestowitz  gave an example for today :DApr 29 22:52
XRevan86cubexyz: I saw Martin Luther King's speech recently, which is superbApr 29 22:53
XRevan86cubexyz: But one thing is quite dated: he calls himself a negro.Apr 29 22:54
XRevan86cubexyz: So one quite visible force of language change is an phase out of terms for disenfranchised groups.Apr 29 22:55
XRevan86My favourite new one is "person of colour", because I have a strong feeling it will be considered derogatory in a decade or two.Apr 29 22:57
XRevan86* "favourite"Apr 29 22:58
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XRevan86cubexyz: So, lots of change for sure.Apr 29 22:58
XRevan86Not that much structural change though. Hard to talk about pronunciation changes though, since it's so diverse.Apr 29 23:01
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MinceRhttps://ircz.de/p/19101758Apr 29 23:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4059480)Apr 29 23:07
XRevan86cubexyz: Oh, and a lot of taboos have been lifted, so even on television people start to be more direct. Maybe that'll finally kill of all those silly euphemisms.Apr 29 23:07
XRevan86* kill offApr 29 23:08
XRevan86Though I don't know, maybe the religious chaps still shiver when they hear "damn you to hell", and get trauma from the prospect of being "actually" damned to "actual" hell.Apr 29 23:10
CrystalMathnot with me, i never swearApr 29 23:10
CrystalMathexcept for "damn" as i don't find that realApr 29 23:10
CrystalMathso i can say it, it's nothing basicallyApr 29 23:10
CrystalMathas well as "hell"Apr 29 23:10
CrystalMathbut i sometimes use darn, heck, and gosh, regardlessApr 29 23:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat Reports From Its Live Event (Mostly) and New Builds of Fedora 31 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136995 [https://pleroma.site/objects/575c2991-0c92-4c5b-806c-b01ae6b17504]Apr 29 23:11
XRevan86So the sentiment that "hell" is a scary word is on its way out.Apr 29 23:12
MinceRwhat will replace it?Apr 29 23:12
MinceR"actual hell"?Apr 29 23:12
XRevan86MinceR: Why does it need a replacement?Apr 29 23:13
CrystalMathi avoid using bad words that are sexual in natureApr 29 23:13
XRevan86MinceR: You could try "go to colonial prison" %).Apr 29 23:14
XRevan86that's scary, right?Apr 29 23:14
XRevan86and bonus, a real placeApr 29 23:14
MinceRlolApr 29 23:15
MinceR"Well done, android. The Enrichment Center once again reminds you that android hell is a real place where you will be sent at the first sign of defiance."Apr 29 23:15
MinceRi don't think these words are bad anywayApr 29 23:17
MinceRthey convey meaningApr 29 23:17
MinceRand that's what words are forApr 29 23:17
XRevan86MinceR: Apparently when a religious person heard "well, hell, damn it" on TV, they had a PTSD flashbackApr 29 23:18
MinceRlolApr 29 23:19
MinceRevidently, religion is bad for your mental healthApr 29 23:19
XRevan86MinceR: Scaring children with hell sure is.Apr 29 23:19
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Python #Programming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136996 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4785341a-f5e8-4600-8bc2-e344cb48766c]Apr 29 23:19
XRevan86so that they grow up to have flashbacks of when they were scared shitless of something that never existedApr 29 23:20
*psydread (eace4d91cc@149-210-220-39.colo.transip.net) has joined #techrightsApr 29 23:20
XRevan86(I'm assuming that's the logic behind this, because at least that makes half a sense)Apr 29 23:21
MinceRit could also be Patriotic CorrectnessApr 29 23:21
XRevan86MinceR: No matter how ill-concieved, that still needs some real problem for basis.Apr 29 23:22
MinceRcould be just a lame excuse for throwing a fit about some other person saying something they didn't likeApr 29 23:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: VLC 3.0.10 Released with SMB2 / 3, Improved DVD Support http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136940#comment-24833 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3d7d0016-9cbc-4ad3-824d-a3f1fb92cd4b]Apr 29 23:23
MinceRthat seems to be a "real problem" nowadaysApr 29 23:23
XRevan86Russian Orthodox offendies never cared about the word "ad" or damning people themselves.Apr 29 23:23
XRevan86If even they don't care, then it's not something inherent to the concept of hell.Apr 29 23:25
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136997 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ff988a57-de13-4398-9c00-3b990f46ced0]Apr 29 23:25
MinceRhttps://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoshdangItToHeckApr 29 23:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-tvtropes.org | Gosh Dang It to Heck! - TV TropesApr 29 23:25
XRevan86MinceR: "nowadays" – that ban has been in English media for ages.Apr 29 23:25
MinceRdifferent cults may have different opinions of what is inherent to the concept of hellApr 29 23:26
MinceRthat ban may have been, but others (or attempts to create others) not so muchApr 29 23:26
XRevan86Fire everywhere, chorts dancing around cauldrons with the sinners?Apr 29 23:26
MinceR:)Apr 29 23:26
MinceRdemons, lakes of blood, lakes of lava, red bricks, green marble, ammo and healing items for any space marine who might turn upApr 29 23:27
MinceRteleport padsApr 29 23:27
cubexyzXRevan86, I'd say there's a difference in phraseology in that post 1990 young people are more likely to use derogatory and caustic commentsApr 29 23:28
cubexyzthat appears to be lessening thoughApr 29 23:28
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software Releases: Cockpit, WordPress, Qmmp and GNU Programs http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136998 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d869f4a3-2f0c-47a3-ac2a-d1c734617544]Apr 29 23:28
MinceR> "Blyad"(technically "Whore", but used more like "Fuck") becomes "Blin" (Pancake) in front of sensitive ears.Apr 29 23:31
XRevan86MinceR: Note this is sexualApr 29 23:32
cubexyzcompare 1990s usenet to some facebook or youtube commentsApr 29 23:32
MinceRwhat's not sexual about a whore? :>Apr 29 23:32
cubexyzit's gotten worseApr 29 23:32
XRevan86cubexyz: That can be explained with accessibility and what gets promoted by the platform.Apr 29 23:34
MinceRthe spanish seem to be doing it rightApr 29 23:34
XRevan86Maybe people got worse, maybe Internet got worse, maybe both.Apr 29 23:34
MinceREternal SeptemberApr 29 23:35
XRevan86Russophone Internet keeps the ironising mocking outlook on discussion, but maybe it's because I hang out in old school places.Apr 29 23:37
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136999 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8732a679-1863-4b2f-bda5-0cb68eb765a6]Apr 29 23:37
XRevan86I remember some people getting in, failing to get respect for their persona and leaving being personally offended. So not a representative slice of society.Apr 29 23:39
XRevan86> In North America, "arse" is used as a non-offensive variant of "ass" in the same context as using "heck" instead of "hell."Apr 29 23:40
XRevan86MinceR: This is the craziest sentence so far.Apr 29 23:40
MinceR:)Apr 29 23:40
XRevan86A euphemism that literally means donkey is more offensive than the actual literal word for butt it replaced.Apr 29 23:41
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: Intel and AMD GPUs http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/137000 [https://pleroma.site/objects/27af0ae5-cd60-4e69-af95-71481f9da664]Apr 29 23:42
XRevan86It also makes phrases ambiguousApr 29 23:43
MinceR"I have three things to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases caused by malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a shit. [dramatic pause] What's worse is that you're more upset about the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night."Apr 29 23:43
XRevan86Who can clarify: to work one's ass off – is that donkey, butt or both?Apr 29 23:44
MinceRobviously arseApr 29 23:44
MinceRwhat would a donkey be worked off of?Apr 29 23:44
XRevan86MinceR: PloughingApr 29 23:44
XRevan86Lots and lotsApr 29 23:45
MinceRwhat would the donkey be detached from as a result of that?Apr 29 23:45
XRevan86MinceR: Good point.Apr 29 23:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts/Shows: Fedora 32 Run Through, Linux Headlines and FLOSS Weekly http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/137001 [https://pleroma.site/objects/af9198bb-46d7-4aa9-8285-4709196db905]Apr 29 23:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Lenovo to offer ThinkPads with Linux installed http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/136786#comment-24834 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9e987b08-f8d0-45c0-9fdd-ef58df01ae4f]Apr 29 23:49
XRevan86hard-ass is about donkeys, right?Apr 29 23:49
MinceRcould be, but donkeys are rarely qualified by hardness, as far as i knowApr 29 23:50
XRevan86hardworking?Apr 29 23:50
MinceRthat would be a "hardworking ass"Apr 29 23:50
XRevan86A stubborn donkey with a thick skull?Apr 29 23:51
MinceRnot sure about that oneApr 29 23:51
XRevan86MinceR: But how arse stiffness can affect stubbornness?Apr 29 23:51
MinceR¯\_(ツ)_/¯Apr 29 23:51
XRevan86See what I mean? %)Apr 29 23:52
kingoffrancei dunno that phrase but "beat the crap out of" apparently that was the sign centuries ago that torture/interrogation was done...when they started crapping themselves, that was the line you werent supposed to cross :)Apr 29 23:52
kingoffranceso that was a legal thing :)Apr 29 23:52
MinceR:>Apr 29 23:52
XRevan86kingoffrance: That's really dark.Apr 29 23:53
MinceRand that's how we like itApr 29 23:53
XRevan86badass – what about that one?Apr 29 23:54
MinceRit's not literal either wayApr 29 23:54
MinceReven the badness isn't literalApr 29 23:54
XRevan86A dirty arse doesn't deliver it for me.Apr 29 23:54
MinceRit could be bad in some other wayApr 29 23:55
XRevan86A tough donkey is not that appealing eitherApr 29 23:55
MinceRdoes a bad donkey deliver it for you?Apr 29 23:55
XRevan86He's a donkey and he's baaaadApr 29 23:55
MinceRsounds more like something that would apply to sheepApr 29 23:56
XRevan86That made me lolApr 29 23:56
XRevan86MinceR: Donkeys can be very stubbornApr 29 23:57
XRevan86MinceR: Maybe this is упрямый осёл, but with a positive twistApr 29 23:58
MinceR:)Apr 29 23:58
XRevan86Вот осёл – what an assApr 29 23:59
XRevan86Now that's a good pairApr 29 23:59

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