●● IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 ●●

● Jun 30
[00:07]		*psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[00:19]	schestowitz	DaemonFC: metaphor for the country
[00:19]	schestowitz	we had our own with a fire incident
[00:19]	schestowitz	although the cladding played a role
[00:33]	MinceR	29 232047 <~schestowitz> [21:51] <AdmFubar> schestowitz: as the old saying goes... to err is human, to really screw up requires a computer..
[00:33]	MinceR	it's so old i have it in a book :>
[00:34]	chunky	slip nslide
[00:36]	schestowitz	crib notes
[00:38]	schestowitz	http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/06/carpmaels-ransford-sued-for-missed.html?showComment=1624963361812#c2259335079536939374
[00:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ipkitten.blogspot.com | Carpmaels & Ransford sued for missed appeal deadline - The IPKat
[00:38]	schestowitz	"
[00:38]	schestowitz	This is clearly annother incident of a client trying to profiteer from mistakes of an agent. It gets worse that the client has deep pockets and feels entitled to world domination. As a rule of thumb, I never take on big clients with high volume, as it comes with demands of low fee and an ego. 
[00:38]	DaemonFC	Someone was complaining about a $1,278 ER co-pay and saying they had to pay it because they didn't want to graduate college with dinged credit.
[00:38]	schestowitz	We have to provide some social justice in our response, as there is only so much the law and insurnace companies can do to protect agents. We should decline all instruction from applicants who had sued an agent before. 
[00:38]	schestowitz	"
[00:38]	schestowitz	Laywers acting bad... again
[00:39]	DaemonFC	Of course, what NPR won't mention is that medical debt is scored less severely by FICO these days and landlords pretty much ignore medical debt completely.
[00:40]	DaemonFC	If she lets it go to collections, she could possibly settle it for half as much, and I wouldn't even offer them that or discuss it with them unless they threatened to sue. It just doesn't make as big of a difference as people think it does.
[00:40]	DaemonFC	Most debt collectors have thresholds and if you're under that they just never bother to sue you. But they won't admit it.
[00:41]	schestowitz	I no longer take NPR seriously... since a decade ago
[00:41]	schestowitz	it was defunded
[00:41]	schestowitz	and then run for and by oligarchs
[00:41]	schestowitz	I recently found out Microsoft too started bribing it, not just Bill Gates ('Foundation')
[00:41]	schestowitz	this is corrupt media
[00:41]	bagira/fn	our credit systems is bullshit anyway
[00:41]	schestowitz	see examples as noted in https://www.cjr.org/criticism/gates-foundation-journalism-funding.php
[00:41]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cjr.org | Journalisms Gates keepers - Columbia Journalism Review
[00:41]	schestowitz	not much independent journalism left now
[00:42]	DaemonFC	I wonder what traffic court is using to threaten people with now.
[00:42]	DaemonFC	Illinois removed their ability to suspend your license for not paying.
[00:42]	schestowitz	do they do "plea" "bargain"?
[00:42]	DaemonFC	The credit bureaus don't show civil judgments anymore.
[00:42]	bagira/fn	best thing this generation can do is to completely disregard the existing credit scoring system
[00:42]	DaemonFC	<schestowitz> do they do "plea" "bargain"?
[00:42]	DaemonFC	Yes, but I'm not going to.
[00:42]	bagira/fn	consumer and provider
[00:42]	schestowitz	"yes, I will lie about actually going faster (than I did) to get the lesser sentence..."
[00:43]	DaemonFC	I'm going to plead not guilty, tell the truth, and then either win or lose.
[00:43]	DaemonFC	That guy who is faking a back injury is hoping I'll just pay the ticket or take a deal.
[00:43]	DaemonFC	If you don't, what goes on in traffic court is useless to them in civil court.
[00:43]		*koo7 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
[00:43]	DaemonFC	Even if you're found guilty.
[00:44]	bagira/fn	never plead guilty
[00:44]	DaemonFC	I didn't.
[00:44]	DaemonFC	I also refused to sign the ticket.
[00:44]	DaemonFC	It says on the ticket it's not an admission of guilt to sign it.
[00:45]	DaemonFC	I asked the cop what the difference was. He told me no difference. He'd just write refused if I didn't sign it.
[00:45]	schestowitz	DaemonFC: can you check for typos in http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/survey-server-report/ please?
[00:45]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Has Become Almost Extinct in Web Servers (and in Servers in General), But the Mainstream Media Rarely If Ever Talks About That | Techrights
[00:45]	bagira/fn	yeah it has
[00:46]	bagira/fn	iim surprised that modern security standards haven't started excluding it as a "consumer operating system"
[00:47]	DaemonFC	"dominated this market"
[00:47]	DaemonFC	dominates
[00:48]	DaemonFC	"vapouware "
[00:48]	DaemonFC	"(e.g. Vista 11) we"
[00:48]	DaemonFC	(e.g. Vista 11), we
[00:48]	schestowitz	I spell it the british way
[00:48]	DaemonFC	Without the "r"?
[00:49]	schestowitz	ahhh...
[00:49]	schestowitz	thanks
[00:49]	schestowitz	correctx3
[00:49]	DaemonFC	Books a Million at the Gurnee Mills mall has a lot of magazines that aren't complete trash.
[00:50]	DaemonFC	Including Linux Format.
[00:50]	Librarian	This one's a rather-funny contrast to the openness of the software-freedom communities. The harder you grip, the more you lose your grip: https://www.frontpagetech.com/2021/06/28/exclusive-apple-making-employees-wear-police-grade-body-cams-in-response-to-leaks/
[00:53]	schestowitz	eyah
[00:53]	schestowitz	*yeah
[00:53]	schestowitz	well, some thing gloss can compensate
[00:53]	schestowitz	or cost
[00:53]	schestowitz	or a free DVD
[00:54]	schestowitz	but in a superficial society people are meant to judge news channels by special effects
[00:55]	schestowitz	even if sponsored by some company the channel covers
[00:56]	schestowitz	Re: favoritism tweets
[00:56]	schestowitz	> This is the Outreachy who tweeted about favoritism, are you able to see
[00:56]	schestowitz	> the tweet?
[00:56]	schestowitz	> 
[00:56]	schestowitz	> https://twitter.com/rsip22/status/982295163841273859
[00:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sorry, you are not authorized to see this status.
[00:56]	schestowitz	> 
[00:56]	schestowitz	> Renata was 32 when she applied for Outreachy so she didn't get the
[00:56]	schestowitz	> benefits that they give to the younger women.
[00:56]	schestowitz	> 
[00:56]	schestowitz	> This is diversity
[00:56]	schestowitz	I guess "followers only"
[00:56]	schestowitz	due to fear of it being seen by the "outside"
[00:56]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/11/03/the-harassment-claims-in-full/
[00:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Outreachy as Hush Money (Bribe) From Monopolies | Techrights
[00:58]	activelow	it isn't at least entirely clear to me what Microsoft is. Alot of what is sold by them isn't Microsoft: DOS, OpenVMS, Network-Stack, Skype and so forth
[00:59]	schestowitz	true
[00:59]	schestowitz	but not new
[00:59]	schestowitz	Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products. It's not a bad product, but bits and pieces are missing."
[00:59]	schestowitz	--Arno Edelmann, Microsoft's European business security product manager
[00:59]	schestowitz	(missing that preceding quotation mark, sorry...
[00:59]	schestowitz	0
● Jun 30
[01:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 37.46   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 57.90 swarm size (avg): 307.13  
[01:01]	activelow	seems more like it is some strategic operation to take full control. forgot to mention threadx again the most wide-spread spying system on earth: "america first"
[01:05]	schestowitz	"nato"
[01:05]	schestowitz	"we're all in this together"
[01:05]	schestowitz	"help us help you..."
[01:06]	schestowitz	Japan joined Five-EYES informally
[01:06]	schestowitz	so it's 6+ eyes now
[01:06]	techrights-news	As if it matters, your #Skylake #Chromebook can finally use Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152783#comment-30096
[01:06]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Too little, too late: Linux app support is finally coming to Skylake Chromebooks | Tux Machines
[01:07]	activelow	probably took a while to implement tapping and spying on that thing
[01:11]	techrights-news	#KaOS 2021.06 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152835 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #KDE
[01:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | KaOS 2021.06 | Tux Machines
[01:11]	techrights-news	Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152836 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[01:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux Machines
[01:11]	techrights-news	#PopOS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[01:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[01:11]	techrights-news	#Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152838 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[01:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Security Leftovers | Tux Machines
[01:12]	techrights-news	#Kernel : Linux 5.14. #Radeon Software for Linux 21.20, and Sapphire Rapids http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152839 #Hrdware #Linux #TuxMachines
[01:12]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Kernel: Linux 5.14. Radeon Software for Linux 21.20, and Sapphire Rapids | Tux Machines
[01:12]	techrights-news	#Ubuntu Getting Major Rebrand, is this the New Logo? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152840 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[01:12]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu Getting Major Rebrand, is this the New Logo? | Tux Machines
[01:13]	techrights-news	"The system runs #Linux #Ubuntu 20.04." http://linuxgizmos.com/low-profile-fanless-box-pc-system-taps-comet-lake-s/ #gnu #hardware (back doors in this chipset though, they need to choose better)
[01:13]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 520 @ http://linuxgizmos.com/low-profile-fanless-box-pc-system-taps-comet-lake-s/ )
[01:13]	techrights-news	Links 29/6/2021: Q4OS 3.15, New Absolute64, EndeavourOS Update, and KaOS 2021.06 http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/q4os-3-15/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/q4os-3-15/
[01:13]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Links 29/6/2021: Q4OS 3.15, New Absolute64, EndeavourOS Update, and KaOS 2021.06 | Techrights
[01:14]	techrights-news	#FreeSoftware Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152841 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines #freesw
[01:14]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Free Software Leftovers | Tux Machines
[01:14]	techrights-news	Todays Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152842 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[01:14]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux Machines
[01:17]	techrights-news	Over the next few days if not weeks #techrights will expand futher in #geminiSpace seeing that #geminiProtocol has many users now. 173,856 page requests so far this month and it grows as the months go by. It definitely caught on. #www still vastly bigger. But stagnating somewhat.
[01:17]	techrights-news	#Microsoft Has Become Almost Extinct in #WebServers (and in #Servers in General), But the #MainstreamMedia Rarely -- If Ever -- Talks About That http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/survey-server-report/
[01:18]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Has Become Almost Extinct in Web Servers (and in Servers in General), But the Mainstream Media Rarely If Ever Talks About That | Techrights
[01:19]	techrights-news	#patent extremist #PaulMorinville calls "fallacies" what it actually true about #patents ("A Recent Senate IP Subcommittee Hearing Demonstrates the Danger of Patent Fallacies"). No, those are not fallacies; #watchtroll is egging on zealots and trolls. #misinformation online. http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Watchtroll
[01:19]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Watchtroll - Techrights
[01:20]	techrights-news	#EliMazour in #watchtroll and the glorification of #microsoft #patentTrolls in "Applying Lessons from #IntellectualVentures to Helping Innovative Doctors" (link omitted) http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Intellectual_Ventures
[01:20]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Intellectual Ventures - Techrights
[01:22]	techrights-news	Old: #Alphabet Agency 'Gulag' bribes people in order to suck up to #google and not tarnish the image of the #www #monopoly http://techrights.org/2020/11/03/the-harassment-claims-in-full/
[01:22]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Outreachy as Hush Money (Bribe) From Monopolies | Techrights
[01:23]	techrights-news	#EPO #patents on #cancer again https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/953563/noxopharm-secures-key-european-patent-allowance-for-veyonda-anti-cancer-drug-candidate-953563.html This won't help tackle cancer; see http://techrights.org/2015/12/26/epo-and-cancer/
[01:23]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk | Noxopharm Ltd secures key European patent allowance for Veyonda anti-cancer drug candidate
[01:23]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Insensitivity at the EPOs Management Part II: Patent Office as a Cancer | Techrights
[01:24]	DaemonFC	I created a standard user account for the Lenovo Technician with a stupid password.
[01:24]	DaemonFC	That way I don't have to wipe the drive to let them log in and see if the repair worked.
[01:25]	techrights-news	"U.S. #Patent 9,923,995 is generally directed to sharing information for detecting an idle network connection between two nodes" = #swpats = #fakepatents https://www.unifiedpatents.com/insights/2021/6/29/jenam-tech-settles-with-unified
[01:25]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.unifiedpatents.com | Jenam Tech settles with Unified Unified Patents
[01:25]	schestowitz	DaemonFC: is it just hardware repair?
[01:25]	schestowitz	and, if so, why give them any access at all?
[01:26]	schestowitz	self-repair usually worked for me, like buying the missing the components online if you don't need soldering, just screwing around
[01:27]	schestowitz	warranty is usually lapsed by the time things actually start breaking down anyway
[01:27]	techrights-news	"So I had another major #email crash with my #syncmaildir setup. This time I was at least able to confirm the issue, and I still haven't lost mail thanks to backups and sheer luck (again)." https://anarc.at/blog/2021-06-29-another-mail-crash/
[01:27]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-anarc.at | Another syncmaildir crash - anarcat
[01:28]	techrights-news	Good performance from England https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnZBO0YCrYw #germany #england #euro2020 #soccer (we're very upset at the density of that crowd... as if #football is more important than containing the virus: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/06/22/lock-down-again/ )
[01:28]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Highlights: Ecstatic England see off Germany at Wembley | UEFA Euro 2020 - YouTube
[01:29]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive The Tories Are Lying and You Should Consider Going Into Lock-down Again (Irrespective of What the Government Says)
[01:30]	techrights-news	Communications of the Boards of Appeal of the EPO Still Controlled by the Office, Which Also Censors Public Input Submissions (Observations) http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/third-world-epo/ #epo #europe #bananaRepublic #germany #corrupion
[01:30]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Communications of the Boards of Appeal of the EPO Still Controlled by the Office, Which Also Censors Public Input Submissions (Observations) | Techrights
[01:31]	DaemonFC	<schestowitz> warranty is usually lapsed by the time things actually start breaking down anyway
[01:31]	DaemonFC	The USB-C port is glitching out.
[01:31]	DaemonFC	External storage drops off with event 51 or 11, indicating problem with disk controller or during a paging operation.
[01:31]	DaemonFC	Then the drive disappears, Windows says it's not there, and then remounts it.
[01:32]	DaemonFC	I thought it was just the USB stick, but Event 11 happens with the hard disk.
[01:36]	techrights-news	Top 10 #freesw Process Automation solutions for enterprise https://medevel.com/top-10-open-source-free-process-automation-solutions-for-enterprise/ many need to #deleteGithub
[01:36]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-medevel.com | Top 10 open-source free Process Automation solutions for enterprise
[01:36]	techrights-news	#FullCircleWeekly News #216 https://fullcirclemagazine.org/podcast/full-circle-weekly-news-216/ #gnu #linux
[01:36]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fullcirclemagazine.org | Full Circle Weekly News #216 | Full Circle Magazine
[01:36]	schestowitz	DaemonFC: windows?
[01:37]	schestowitz	how old is this machine?
[01:37]	DaemonFC	Yeah.
[01:37]	DaemonFC	Fairly new.
[01:37]	DaemonFC	About 6 months.
[01:37]	techrights-news	#Linux Formerly Affected By An #AMD #KVM Guest-To-Host Breakout Code Vulnerability https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-EPYC-Breakout-KVM
[01:37]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Linux Formerly Affected By An AMD KVM Guest-To-Host Breakout Code Vulnerability - Phoronix
[01:37]	schestowitz	rianne uses a refurb lenovo lapto
[01:37]	schestowitz	and the only issue is occasional heating in summer
[01:37]	schestowitz	so it beeps a bit, then it settles OK, maybe even throttles down the cpu
[01:38]	schestowitz	(I did not check)
[01:38]	techrights-news	#Laptop Improvements With #Linux 5.14 Benefit Lenovo, Dell, Microsoft Surface Devices https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-Laptops
[01:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Laptop Improvements With Linux 5.14 Benefit Lenovo, Dell, Microsoft Surface Devices - Phoronix
[01:38]	DaemonFC	Yeah, irony is that it's the older one I'll be using until I get this one back.
[01:38]	DaemonFC	It seems to run Fedora 34 okay.
[01:38]	schestowitz	some time next month, as things are calming down, I will write again about the state of IRC
[01:39]	DaemonFC	I compressed the drive with zstd and it has enough space for both me and Mandy to have an account, even with the SSD.
[01:39]	schestowitz	how big a storage?
[01:39]	schestowitz	compression slows things down, you might be better off with external magnetic disk
[01:40]	schestowitz	for files that are not immediately neeed
[01:40]	DaemonFC	512 GB.
[01:40]	techrights-news	Well, #security projects need to #deletegithub because it's #ProprietarySoftware and #microsoft is in #nsa PRISM and generally strives to back-door everything https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2021/06/29/regula-iac-security/
[01:40]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.helpnetsecurity.com | Regula: Open source policy engine for IaC security - Help Net Security
[01:40]	DaemonFC	zstd doesn't slow it down that much, if any.
[01:40]	DaemonFC	I haven't noticed a difference.
[01:40]	schestowitz	that's twice what I have
[01:40]	schestowitz	I offload large video files to 3 external disks
[01:41]	DaemonFC	I use a WD EasyStore external hard disk to back things up.
[01:41]	activelow	the microsft azure decline reminds me of the last microsoft minion i was involved with, a company who programmed the website for www.dlr.de (german aerospace website)
[01:42]	activelow	some weird pp parternship of local bureaucrats, city of munich, etc.
[01:42]	schestowitz	https://www.businessinsider.com/sap-microsoft-embrace-partnership-multicloud-sales-strategy-aws-google-2021-5?r=US&IR=T
[01:42]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.businessinsider.com | SAP and Microsoft Will End Sales Focus in Embrace Partnership in June
[01:42]	schestowitz	SAP
[01:43]	schestowitz	https://www.businessinsider.com/sap-microsoft-embrace-partnership-multicloud-sales-strategy-aws-google-2021-5
[01:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.businessinsider.com | SAP and Microsoft Will End Sales Focus in Embrace Partnership in June
[01:43]	schestowitz	https://www.businessinsider.com/google-cloud-sap-services-teams-customers-whirlpool-2021-6
[01:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.businessinsider.com | Google Cloud Builds SAP Teams to Win Customers Like Whirlpool
[01:43]	schestowitz	Microsoft: 99% hot air
[01:43]	schestowitz	1% tehc [sic]
[01:44]	activelow	it was them who threatened me with incarceration, murderous corrupt cartel
[01:44]	schestowitz	"Microsoft and SAP are quietly pulling the plug on a key piece of their flagship cloud partnership"
[01:44]	schestowitz	so SAP realise it's crap
[01:44]	schestowitz	they work with IBM and SUSE
[01:44]	activelow	strangely in parallel i received the "friendly" offer to be hired by IBM shortly after, in munich
[01:45]	schestowitz	IBM is a bad place to be right now
[01:45]	schestowitz	they get you to train people who replace you
[01:45]	schestowitz	and salaries are not good
[01:45]	schestowitz	on an international scale
[01:45]	schestowitz	while they overwork people
[01:45]	schestowitz	IBM will die
[01:45]	schestowitz	after 100+ years
[01:45]	schestowitz	More people nowadays find out, belatedly, about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehomag?wprov=srpw1_0
[01:45]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Dehomag - Wikipedia
[01:45]	schestowitz	which harms their image
[01:46]	schestowitz	so IBM now pretends to be "woke"
[01:46]	DaemonFC	I refuse to give Lenovo any other access to my system than Standard User.
[01:46]	schestowitz	smokescreen tactics
[01:46]	activelow	there is various frontlines, such as European "competition" too, some outlet of theirs placed in either Romania or some place else
[01:46]	DaemonFC	It keeps my files off limits.
[01:46]	DaemonFC	Most people seem to just use "reset this PC".
[01:46]	DaemonFC	It would be invconvenient to start over.
[01:46]	schestowitz	DaemonFC: still a bad strategy
[01:46]	schestowitz	Windows has back doors 
[01:46]	DaemonFC	My savegame files and stuff are here.
[01:46]	schestowitz	for 'law' enforcement
[01:47]	DaemonFC	Yes, when I sent my HP laptop in for malfunctioning touchpad, they said "Unknown operating system. Can't verify repair.". (Linux. The touchpad worked fine.)
[01:47]	techrights-news	Impact of #microsoft #bribery and #corruption https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ki3VUS_znA see http://techrights.org/2021/03/17/epoleaks-report-march-2021-part-12/
[01:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Why are governments and administrations NOT moving to Linux? - YouTube
[01:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | EPO and Microsoft Collude to Break the Law Part XII: Foreign Corrupt Practices, Bid Rigging and Slush Funds | Techrights
[01:48]	techrights-news	"Hello and welcome to the 418th installment of Linux in the Ham Shack. In this episode, we talk to part of the team from Amateur Radio Digital Communications, a group that emerged from the AMPRNet." https://lhspodcast.info/2021/06/lhs-episode-418-ardc-deep-dive-2/
[01:48]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lhspodcast.info | LHS Episode #418: ARDC Deep Dive | Linux in the Ham Shack
[01:48]	activelow	in the end, i'll not sign any contract ever again, it is completely arbitrary if it is either DT, or IBM or Microsoft
[01:48]	activelow	behind the scenes it is the same corrupt entities anyway
[01:49]	techrights-news	Microsoft's Halo dev site breached using dependency hijacking https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/microsofts-halo-dev-site-breached-using-dependency-hijacking/ #security isn't the goal at #microsoft http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_and_the_NSA
[01:49]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.bleepingcomputer.com | Microsoft's Halo dev site breached using dependency hijacking
[01:49]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft and the NSA - Techrights
[01:49]	schestowitz	activelow: same and overlapping interests
[01:50]	schestowitz	DaemonFC: "Unknown operating system" is not acceptable
[01:50]	schestowitz	it is the most widely used OS
[01:50]	schestowitz	they know it
[01:50]	schestowitz	they look for excuses to appease their bosses with their back room deal
[01:50]	schestowitz	protecting a corrupt monopolist
[01:50]	techrights-news	"To help you get started, this article presents you with the 5 things to do right after installing #openSUSE Tumbleweed." https://www.pragmaticlinux.com/2021/06/5-things-to-do-after-installing-opensuse-tumbleweed/ #suse #gnu #linux
[01:50]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-5 things to do after installing openSUSE Tumbleweed - PragmaticLinux
[01:51]	schestowitz	I did a scandal over it: https://news.softpedia.com/news/Huge-Computer-Retail-Chain-in-UK-Denies-Warranty-If-User-Install-Linux-463177.shtml
[01:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Huge Computer Retail Chain in the UK Denies Warranty If Users Install Linux [Update]
[01:51]	schestowitz	largest chain of stores here
[01:51]	schestowitz	then they pretended it was all just a mistake and got cocky about it
[01:52]	activelow	another aspect is commercial interests, to funnel cash into soccer, UEFA etc.
[01:53]	activelow	little surprising ms and affiliates are operating from switzerland, paytv, DMCA and all this
[01:54]	techrights-news	RMS: "A French court has prohibited hunting songbirds by putting glue on branches. This will help protect endangered species. I find it hard to understand how anyone can want to kill a songbird rather than listen to its singing." https://www.stallman.org/archives/2021-mar-jun.html#29_June_2021_(Songbirds)
[01:54]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.stallman.org | 2021: March - June Political Notes - Richard Stallman
[01:55]	techrights-news	Just like in so-called third-world countries, the top court of the #EPO has only the false promise of judicial independence and theyve made it very obvious and easy for everybody to see http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/third-world-epo/ #Techrights #Europe #corruption #germany | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/third-world-epo/
[01:55]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Communications of the Boards of Appeal of the EPO Still Controlled by the Office, Which Also Censors Public Input Submissions (Observations) | Techrights
[01:56]	techrights-news	Mainstream/mass/corporate media does not talk about it, but #Microsoft is losing one of the most lucrative (and potentially profitable) markets while defrauding its shareholders http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/survey-server-report/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/survey-server-report/
[01:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Has Become Almost Extinct in Web Servers (and in Servers in General), But the Mainstream Media Rarely If Ever Talks About That | Techrights
[01:56]	activelow	ideally public TV stations simply encrypted their shit (BBC, ARD/ZDF), and no more tax payers money is funneled into this
[01:57]	activelow	public broadcasting alone is 8billions of cash funneled into an apparatues, which wouldn't at least educate their engineers themselves anymore (Deutsche Telekom closed their last remaining university)
[01:58]	schestowitz	German published sent me legal threats
[01:58]	schestowitz	iirc, I published some, too
[01:58]	schestowitz	and can find that
[01:59]		*activelow is curious
● Jun 30
[02:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 23.63   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 99.53 swarm size (avg): 306.96  
[02:02]	schestowitz	it's about EPO corruption 
[02:02]	schestowitz	and a programme they did about it
[02:02]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2015/10/20/preferential-treatment-for-microsoft/
[02:02]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | German Broadcaster on European Patent Office (EPO) Preferential Treatment for Microsoft and Others | Techrights
[02:03]	schestowitz	activelow: http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/br-letter.jpg
[02:03]	schestowitz	"illegal with respect to civil and criminal law"
[02:03]	schestowitz	to spread the word
[02:04]	schestowitz	about illegal behaviour :-)
[02:04]	techrights-news	Threats from German media http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/br-letter.jpg
[02:10]	activelow	remarkable, BR TV stations is *publicly* funded with tax payers' cash, productions are probably *pubic domain* anyway
[02:15]	schestowitz	and the money is used to attack sites which expose crimes in Germany
[02:16]	schestowitz	your tax money at work...
[02:16]	schestowitz	I guess that docu is offline now
[02:16]	schestowitz	so nobody can see what the tax payer paid for anymore
[02:16]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2021/04/16/bundestagate-part-20/
[02:16]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag Part 20: Taking Stock | Techrights
[02:16]	schestowitz	facts buried
[02:24]	techrights-news	A Month of #GeminiProtocol in Techrights http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/gemini-in-techrights/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/gemini-in-techrights/
[02:24]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | A Month of Gemini in Techrights | Techrights
[02:36]	techrights-news	[Meme] Nobody Will Miss a Web Dominated by #Monopolies That Spy on Everybody http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/monopolies-web/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/monopolies-web/
[02:36]	techrights-news	***    *** Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-290621.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-290621.txt Read the log now...
[02:36]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | [Meme] Nobody Will Miss a Web Dominated by Monopolies That Spy on Everybody | Techrights
[02:36]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, June 29, 2021
[02:37]	techrights-news	***    *** Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-290621.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-290621.txt Read the log now...
[02:37]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, June 29, 2021
[02:38]	techrights-news	***    *** Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-290621.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-290621.txt Read the log now...
[02:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, June 29, 2021
[02:39]	techrights-news	"the way computers work has not changed fundamentally" http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-290621.html#tJun%2029%2010:15:38
[02:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, June 29, 2021
[02:39]	techrights-news	Today in #Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152843
[02:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux Machines
[02:39]	techrights-news	***    *** Yesterday's #techbytes IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-290621.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-290621.txt Read the log now...
[02:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Tuesday, June 29, 2021
[02:41]	techrights-bot/fn	*** *** Yesterday's bulletin ready. http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2021-06-29.txt
[02:48]	MinceR	30 024750 < DaemonFC> Yes, when I sent my HP laptop in for malfunctioning touchpad, they said "Unknown operating system. Can't verify repair.". (Linux. The touchpad worked fine.)
[02:48]	MinceR	lol
[02:48]	MinceR	i guess liveusb is too difficult for hp to use
[02:49]	MinceR	similarly to how it's too difficult to get functioning boot firmware
[02:56]	hgc	Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
● Jun 30
[03:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 24.58   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 67.73 swarm size (avg): 306.88  
[03:06]	cybrNaut/fn	Debian Bullseye breaks connections to onion sites that use SSL2 or SSL3
[03:06]	cybrNaut/fn	someone got it in their head that someone might shoot themselves in the foot and use SSL2 or SSL3 over the clearnet, so they took an action to "protect" us from ourselves not realising the consequences to Tor users
[03:06]	techrights-ipfs-bot	 Gemini requests since start of month:  174049 total Total pages: 35984    Active: active (running) since Tue 2021-06-08 16:18:39 BST; 3 weeks 0 days ago
[03:06]	techrights-ipfs-bot	 IPFS local node stats (past 23 hours) calculated.  TotalIn: 2.0 GB    TotalOut: 511 MB
[03:06]	techrights-ipfs-bot	 New daily bulletin just generated. It is about to be added to IPFS, hereon retrievable with CID 
[03:06]	cybrNaut/fn	i fucking hate that nannying shit, usually imposed my some pretentious security motherfucker who thinks they're all knowing about all the ways a tool can be used
[03:08]	techrights-ipfs-bot	QmYfnwQyndVxZ3RBdb3h4no9or9LCWC23rmnAoVKtd61oJ
[03:10]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: This is so bizarre I don't know what to think.
[03:11]		*DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[03:12]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: I don't think this is a valid complaint.
[03:13]	XRevan86	No one should be using snakeoil encryption redundant or not. It's just too much of a headache to track it all.
[03:13]	techrights-news	Britain Lost in #Wembley http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/06/30/wembley-losing-control-of-covid/ #uk #england #euro2020 #covid19
[03:13]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Britain Lost in Wembley
[03:13]	cybrNaut/fn	there is no validity to removing ssl2 and ssl3 on an onion connection
[03:13]	cybrNaut/fn	XRevan86 onion circuits are inherently encrypted e2ee.  SSL is not for crypto
[03:13]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: Do ye think OpenSSL knows if TLS is transported through an already encrypted connection?
[03:14]	cybrNaut/fn	no, which is exactly why it was a stupid move to remove it
[03:14]	XRevan86	So everyone should be connecting to SSLv2 and SSLv3 like it's fine?
[03:14]	cybrNaut/fn	if openssl knew, then it could be selective in its denial.  But it doesn't
[03:15]	cybrNaut/fn	over onion, sure
[03:15]	cybrNaut/fn	there's nothing wrong with ssl2 over onion
[03:15]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: Change your  /etc/ssl/openssl.cnf then
[03:15]	cybrNaut/fn	it's not a config change.  It has to be rebuilt
[03:16]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: Oh, it was compiled out, I see.
[03:17]		*job (~job@bfjdrpzm6v77y.irc) has joined #techrights
[03:17]	schestowitz	privacyIsACrime(r)
[03:18]		*cyndaquil (~job@user/job) has joined #techrights
[03:18]	XRevan86	schestowitz: This is a complaint about no support for broken encryption in circumstances when it's useless and so harmless.
[03:19]	techrights-news	Updated list of videos in #techrights (past 7 days) http://techrights.org/videos/
[03:19]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Techrights Full Videos Index
[03:20]	cybrNaut/fn	no, you can't say SSL2/3 is "useless".  SSL2/3 has multiple purposes.  The crypto purpose is useless, the verification purpose is useful
[03:20]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: Can't ye do it with TLSv1.2?
[03:20]	cybrNaut/fn	not if I don't control the server
[03:20]	cybrNaut/fn	(which is the case here)
[03:21]	techrights-news	Pop!_OS 21.04 Released with New Cosmic Desktop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837#comment-30097
[03:21]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[03:21]	cybrNaut/fn	would be nice if the server would advance, but it's not necessary.  Unless of course some cocky developer decides they can "protect" people from themselves
[03:21]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: Can't those who control the server wake up?
[03:22]	XRevan86	and update OpenSSL
[03:22]	cybrNaut/fn	upgrades are not always trivial
[03:22]	cybrNaut/fn	i've just been forced into an otherwise needless migration because tor project decided to ditch onion v2 prematurely
[03:22]		*schestowitz remembers a few months ago when freenode updated ssl
[03:23]	schestowitz	and then had to reboot ALL the freenode servers, one at a time
[03:23]	schestowitz	massive number of splits for a very long time
[03:23]	cybrNaut/fn	for simple users, migration is simple.  I have 10+ apps on life support that take a week to reinstall because code hacking required
[03:23]	XRevan86	Oh, I remember something like that, I think there was a nasty vulnerability
[03:23]	XRevan86	so they've decided to update everything just in case
[03:24]	XRevan86	schestowitz: It didn't leave that much of an impact in my brain, was it significant?
[03:25]	cybrNaut/fn	it was not a nasty vuln, it was someone getting paranoid about key size, and took it upon themselves to impose something excessive on everyone without knowing the various circumstances
[03:25]	techrights-news	EduExo Pro is an Arduino-controlled robotic #exoskeleton kit thats now on Kickstarter | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/06/29/eduexo-pro-is-an-arduino-controlled-robotic-exoskeleton-kit-now-on-kickstarter/ #Arduino #Hardware #OpenHardware #Hacking
[03:25]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.arduino.cc | EduExo Pro is an Arduino-controlled robotic exoskeleton kit that's now on Kickstarter | Arduino Blog
[03:25]	techrights-news	Kai A. Hiller: Search Bar of Doom http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152844 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[03:25]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Kai A. Hiller: Search Bar of Doom | Tux Machines
[03:25]	cybrNaut/fn	some people don't even create onion servers to be anonymous.  Sometimes it's just to put up a server without their ISP getting in the way
[03:26]	cybrNaut/fn	Comcast for example has (or had) a "no servers" policy in the ToS of their most basic residential services
[03:26]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: What IIRC, it was a NULL dereference.
[03:27]	XRevan86	https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-3449 this thing, right?
[03:27]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-security-tracker.debian.org | CVE-2021-3449
[03:29]	cybrNaut/fn	that's server-side, and only affects TLSv1.2 (which is still supported in Bullseye)
[03:30]	XRevan86	cybrNaut: That's to schestowitz because he mentioned freenode's ( Libera's? %) ) server reboot some months ago.
[03:30]	cybrNaut/fn	ah
[03:31]	techrights-news	This is the same corrupt #RickJelliffe who took #microsoft #bribes to manipulate #wikipedia for them https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/18/schematron_standard_paywall/ #osi = #corruption http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/ISO
[03:31]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | Open standard but not open access: Schematron author complains about ISO paywall The Register
[03:31]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | ISO - Techrights
[03:32]	XRevan86	Congrats to Libera on reaching 45K online users.
[03:32]	schestowitz	just same old staff regaining or retaining old users
[03:32]	schestowitz	maybe 70% of them
[03:32]	XRevan86	regaining, yes
[03:33]	schestowitz	not much of a thing
[03:33]	schestowitz	they split the network
[03:33]	schestowitz	at the moment there are 30 users in LC techrights
[03:33]	schestowitz	dead channel, hardly a thing since Sunday
[03:33]	schestowitz	52 users in freenode and more activity there
[03:33]	schestowitz	42 here
[03:33]	XRevan86	22.7K users on freenode. Huh.
[03:34]	XRevan86	schestowitz: That's very-very easy to flip around.
[03:34]	schestowitz	either way, we're better off as that fiasco forced us to belatedly self-host
[03:34]	XRevan86	Which just a few new lines to the bridge config.
[03:35]	schestowitz	something we only SERIOUSLY started to consider last year (prior years we thought about that in more theoretical terms)
[03:36]	XRevan86	schestowitz: I don't know why ye expect any real activity in #techrights at Libera, it's not used by you.
[03:37]	XRevan86	schestowitz: The channels that can be used as a more honest metric are channels like ##sqlite or ##slackware
[03:37]	techrights-news	Taking mass #surveillance to the next level, with #patent #monopolies too (as only #facebook wants to be able to do this to you) https://www.yankodesign.com/2021/06/25/facebook-just-filed-a-patent-for-a-baseball-cap-with-a-built-in-ar-headset-and-it-looks-terribly-cringe/
[03:37]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.yankodesign.com | Facebook just filed a patent for a baseball cap with a built-in AR headset and it looks terribly cringe | Yanko Design
[03:37]	XRevan86	because they're not official on any network
[03:39]	XRevan86	It's actually not a good sign that people come to comment on things to #techrights at freenode, it means that they're reluctant to come to this server for a passing comment.
[03:39]	XRevan86	but a lot of people won't come to freenode either, so some situation
[03:40]	techrights-news	#corporateMedia pushing this falsehood that software projects, irrespective of how many people are involved in them, cannot possibly succeed unless they meet some diversity quotas. And not too surprisingly that media is owned by racist and bigoted magnates, whose guilt drives this malicious slant. Like Vichy Syndrome.
[03:41]	techrights-news	Diversity as a 'box-ticking' exercise won't tackle equality. The problems run deeper than this.
[03:44]	leah	schestowitz: i'm working on the savegnu site. i've been clearing up other things from my tasks first
[03:44]	techrights-news	...The situation has become so profoundly bad that even if you're from a poor country and female and gay and whatever and you're over 30 (age) the corporations which claim to (lie about trying to) promote diversity will not choose you https://twitter.com/rsip22/status/982295163841273859
[03:44]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sorry, you are not authorized to see this status.
[03:45]	leah	it shouldn't be too long now before it goes live. my initial problem was that i didn't know what the scope would be, or what i would want it to say, what the overall agenda was, just that the current splintering within the gnu project are bad and need to be addressed. i came up with a solution
[03:45]	leah	i assume you already know what i'm going to put on the site, and what my plans are
[03:45]	leah	watch this space
[03:46]	leah	my plan needs to work. either with me leading it, or someone else. i think it's a brilliant plan
[03:46]	techrights-news	Corporations do not promote diversity. Not of opinion or of anything else. They just promote their public image.
[03:46]	techrights-news	The Web may be beyond redemption at this point; created 3 decades ago in Switzerland (by a Brit), nowadays its dominated by Pentagon-connected American corporations http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/monopolies-web/ #Techrights #www #internet #surveillance | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/monopolies-web/
[03:46]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | [Meme] Nobody Will Miss a Web Dominated by Monopolies That Spy on Everybody | Techrights
[03:47]	techrights-news	The #WorldWideWeb (or the Web) is still dominating or commanding the lions share of traffic, but were trying to reduce our dependence on it; we encourage other sites to do the same http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/gemini-in-techrights/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/29/gemini-in-techrights/
[03:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | A Month of Gemini in Techrights | Techrights
[03:48]	techrights-news	The only winner in #wembley last night was #coronavirus http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/06/30/wembley-losing-control-of-covid/ #uk #covid19 #superspreader
[03:48]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Britain Lost in Wembley
[03:49]	techrights-news	#ChampionsLeague a year before #covid19 breakout http://schestowitz.com/royrianne/gallery/index.php/Sixth-Wedding-Anniversary
[03:49]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Sixth Wedding Anniversary
[03:50]	techrights-news	#pclinuxos ... #seamonkey browser updated to 2.53.8 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/151867#comment-30098
[03:50]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | PCLinuxOS: Latest Package Updates, Magazine, and Screenshots | Tux Machines
[03:51]	techrights-news	He used to hang out in the #techrights #irc channels in the past https://news.bitcoin.com/mysterious-bitcoin-maximalist-mircea-popescu-allegedly-found-dead/
[03:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.bitcoin.com | Mysterious Bitcoin Maximalist Mircea Popescu Allegedly Found Dead Bitcoin News
[03:53]	techrights-news	#microsoft #propaganda sites like #VisualStudioMagazine are pushing more #github #ProprietarySoftware under the false pretenses that this is "open". All this openwashing is an ATTACK on our movement. Worse than just correctly advertised malware.
[03:56]	techrights-news	"The term "red hat" has such a stench hanging over it now." https://www.universalhub.com/2021/bit-boston-history-preserved-pair-plan-buy-and-re #ibm #redhat #maga #trump #goldenDawnald
[03:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.universalhub.com | Bit of Boston history preserved: Pair plan to buy and re-open the Red Hat | Universal Hub
[03:56]	techrights-news	#Yakuake : The KDE Terminal Emulator That You Probably Arent Using http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152845 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[03:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Yakuake: The KDE Terminal Emulator That You Probably Arent Using | Tux Machines
[03:57]	techrights-news	#redhat http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/redhat-puke.jpg
[03:59]	techrights-news	#theregister is doing 'ads' for #ProprietarySoftware of #microsoft #github ... to remind us what The Register stands for http://techrights.org/2021/02/28/the-register-microsoft-pr/
[03:59]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Fall of The Register | Techrights
● Jun 30
[04:00]	techrights-news	The criminals from #microsoft are so bad that even #google won't get along with them? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-30/google-microsoft-truce-crumbles-amid-feud-over-cloud-ad-tech maybe motivated also by http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[04:00]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
[04:00]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is a Lot Worse Than Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple | Techrights
[04:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 22.75   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 63.38 swarm size (avg): 306.87  
[04:02]	techrights-news	#microsoft still bombarding ON with its vapourware, now with fictional news like "dates" (after fake 'leaks' and 'builds')... anything to distract from actual news and Microsoft blunders, e.g. http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[04:02]	techrights-news	More #espionage wars... and false dichotomies https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/29/international_institute_for_strategic_studies_cyber_study/
[04:02]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | America worlds sole cyber superpower, ten years ahead of China, says Brit think tank The Register
[04:03]	techrights-news	#microsoft bailouts: http://techrights.org/2021/04/04/microsoft-nationalism/ we know at whose expense: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt
[04:03]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft: Nationalism As A Service (NaaS) | Techrights
[04:03]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-tradingeconomics.com | United States Government Debt | 1942-2021 Data | 2022-2023 Forecast | Historical
[04:06]	techrights-news	#Techrights Bulletin for Tuesday, June 29, 2021 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext
[04:06]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Bulletin Archives
[04:06]	techrights-news	#microsoftTim on #Kubernetes https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/29/kubernetes_spend_report/
[04:06]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | Kubernetes a black hole of unpredictable spend, according to new report The Register
[04:06]	techrights-news	#Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing
[04:06]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Techrights Full IPFS Index
[04:07]	techrights-news	Back doors 'R' US https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/28/microsoft_malware_signing/ see http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Microsoft_and_the_NSA
[04:07]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | Microsoft approved a Windows driver booby-trapped with rootkit malware The Register
[04:07]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft and the NSA - Techrights
[04:08]	techrights-news	Start by deleting #microsoft and #windows https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/29/cabinet_office_cybersecurity_training/ see http://techrights.org/2020/06/09/windows-disaster-zones/
[04:08]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | UK Cabinet Office's spending on cybersecurity training rises by 500% in a year The Register
[04:08]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Index of the Series About Windows Inside Hospitals (Causing Hospitals to Become Disaster Zones) | Techrights
[04:09]	techrights-news	The company of corrupt #TheirryBreton https://www.theregister.com/2021/06/29/atos_nhs_foss_charges/ see http://techrights.org/2020/12/01/the-breton-coverup/
[04:09]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | When free and open source actually means 6k-8k per package: Atos's 136m contract with NHS England The Register
[04:09]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | European Commissions Thierry Breton Covers Up EPO Corruption For His Friend Benot Battistelli | Techrights
[04:13]	techrights-news	"I was 25 years old making $150,000 a year, but something was missing. My father thought I was crazy for leaving a great paycheck like that behind, but helping people understand technology and media was my passion." https://www.komando.com/technology/kim-leadership-secrets-authority-magazine/795611/
[04:13]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.komando.com | Kim's success secrets: 5 leadership lessons I've learned
[04:14]	techrights-news	Top 7 free photo editors in 2021 https://technave.com/gadget/Top-7-free-photo-editors-in-2021-25444.html #gnu #gimp @ at of this list
[04:14]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Top 7 free photo editors in 2021 | TechNave
[04:15]	techrights-news	Boos at #Hackaday for helping #microsoft #vapourware tactics. #vista11 #spam
[04:17]	techrights-news	" #IBM is also moving to more PIPs with not- realistic 30 day time frames to achieve so the severance is NOT being paid. Be careful." https://www.thelayoff.com/t/1bBT6V5l
[04:17]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thelayoff.com | PIPs instead of Layoffs - post regarding IBM layoffs
[04:22]	techrights-news	#Microsoft #Windows TCO: #NLTimes #ProprietarySoftware #Ransomware a threat to national security, says Deutch counterterrorism office https://nltimes.nl/2021/06/28/ransomware-threat-national-security-says-dutch-counterterrorism-office http://techrights.org/2020/06/09/windows-disaster-zones/
[04:22]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nltimes.nl | Ransomware a threat to national security, says Dutch counterterrorism office | NL Times
[04:23]	techrights-news	 NEWS #WladimirPalant #Privacy #Surveillance How #Amazon Assistant lets Amazon track your every move on the web https://palant.info/2021/03/08/how-amazon-assistant-lets-amazon-track-your-every-move-on-the-web/
[04:23]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-palant.info | How Amazon Assistant lets Amazon track your every move on the web | Almost Secure
[04:23]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TheVerge #Privacy #Surveillance A #Twitter bug temporarily removed the option to switch to the chronological feed on the web https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/22556349/twitter-chronological-feed-web-bug-removed-support-article
[04:23]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | A Twitter bug temporarily removed the option to switch to the chronological feed on the web - The Verge
[04:26]	techrights-news	Did anybody actually miss these? https://timesofsandiego.com/business/2021/06/28/tom-york-on-business-trade-shows-return-to-convention-center-in-august-after-covid-hiatus/
[04:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-timesofsandiego.com | Tom York on Business: Trade Shows Return to Convention Center in August After COVID Hiatus - Times of San Diego
[04:29]	techrights-news	#zdnet was a #propaganda and #marketing site for a while now. And now a total SPAM site. Under "Best Python course 2021: Top online coding classes" it does pure sales (referral spam). #boycottZDNet http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/ZDNet
[04:29]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | ZDNet - Techrights
[04:30]	techrights-news	"Big Tech" is a #microsoft ploy, designed to distract from Microsoft #crimes http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[04:31]	techrights-news	"commemorate America's commitment to freedom of the press and those who died advancing it" https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/fallen-journalists-memorial-foundation-launches-fundraising-campaign-with-6-million-in-new-support-301322382.html
[04:31]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.prnewswire.com | Fallen Journalists Memorial Foundation launches fundraising campaign with $6 Million in new support
[04:32]	techrights-news	When your populace lacks critical skills https://www.gurufocus.com/news/1464733/avast-threat-labs-finds-us-most-vulnerable-to-tech-support-fraud
[04:32]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Avast Threat Labs finds U.S. m - GuruFocus.com
[04:34]	techrights-news	"one-hour episodes featuring topics such as production use cases around open source projects like #OpenStack , #Kubernetes and Magma; industry leader conversations" https://www.wfmz.com/news/pr_newswire/pr_newswire_technology/open-infrastructure-foundation-unveils-openinfra-live-virtual-event-schedule/article_54bdf287-da5d-517a-be48-e72bff2527b4.html
[04:34]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Open Infrastructure Foundation Unveils OpenInfra Live Virtual Event Schedule | News | wfmz.com
[04:35]	techrights-news	#Nvidia RTX 3080 #Ethereum Hashrate and Mining Overclock settings on #HiveOS Linux https://linuxconfig.org/nvidia-rtx-3080-eth-hashrate-and-overclock-settings-on-hiveos
[04:35]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 403 @ https://linuxconfig.org/nvidia-rtx-3080-eth-hashrate-and-overclock-settings-on-hiveos )
[04:39]	techrights-news	#System76 Releases #PopOS 21.04 With New COSMIC Desktop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837#comment-30099
[04:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[04:43]	techrights-news	Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152846 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[04:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux Machines
[04:53]	techrights-news	Sites such as #Gulag #YouTube #Facebook and #Twitter should quit using terms like "community standards" because corporations are NOT communities and they should stop pretending that they are. Some #taxevasion scams call themselves "Charities" http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Gates_Foundation_Critique
[04:53]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Gates Foundation Critique - Techrights
● Jun 30
[05:00]	techrights-news	#Microsoft #Windows TCO: #CopenhagenPost #Finance [Cr]ackers have had access to Danish national bank for seven months https://cphpost.dk/?p=125979 see http://techrights.org/2020/06/09/windows-disaster-zones/
[05:00]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cphpost.dk | Hackers have had access to Danish national bank for seven months - The Post
[05:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 26.73   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 5.51 swarm size (avg): 307.00  
[05:02]	techrights-news	 NEWS #NewZealand #Misinformation #Disinformation #nz Half the country sucked in by at least one bit of misinformation chief censor https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/30-06-2021/half-the-country-has-been-sucked-in-by-at-least-one-bit-of-misinformation-chief-censor-finds/ "The [Internet] played a key role in spreading false facts, the survey found."
[05:03]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-thespinoff.co.nz | Half the country sucked in by at least one bit of misinformation chief censor | The Spinoff
[05:04]	techrights-news	 NEWS #RaspberryPi #RasPi #GNU #Linux Celebrating the community: Zaahra and Eesa https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/community-stories-zaahra-eesa-coding-team/
[05:04]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.raspberrypi.org | Celebrating the community: Zaahra and Eesa - Raspberry Pi
[05:04]	techrights-news	 NEWS #MichaelGeist #canada #internet The #CRTC Will Be Picking Winners and Losers: A Report on Day Two of the Senate Bill C-10 Debate https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2021/06/the-crtc-will-be-picking-winners-and-losers-a-report-on-day-two-of-the-senate-bill-c-10-debate/
[05:04]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.michaelgeist.ca | The CRTC "Will Be Picking Winners and Losers": A Report on Day Two of the Senate Bill C-10 Debate - Michael Geist
[05:04]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TheGrayZone #censorship #slapp Judge tosses frivolous lawsuit by heiress #SulomeAnderson seeking to destroy The Grayzone https://thegrayzone.com/2021/06/29/lawsuit-sulome-anderson-hezbollah/
[05:04]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-thegrayzone.com | Judge tosses frivolous lawsuit by heiress Sulome Anderson seeking to destroy The Grayzone
[05:10]		*job has quit (connection closed)
[05:10]		*cyndaquil has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[05:15]		*job (~job@bfjdrpzm6v77y.irc) has joined #techrights
[05:15]	techrights-news	You can never embark upon #security -enhancing escapades without first removing all #microsoft and #windows from the infra (rip it all apart) http://techrights.org/2020/06/09/windows-disaster-zones/
[05:15]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Index of the Series About Windows Inside Hospitals (Causing Hospitals to Become Disaster Zones) | Techrights
[05:16]		*cyndaquil (~job@user/job) has joined #techrights
[05:17]	techrights-news	#Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152847 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[05:17]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Security Leftovers | Tux Machines
[05:24]	techrights-news	"This website is temporarily disabled for investigation of a potential web shell compromise. Please check back later." ESR blog has been broken for many months now. http://esr.ibiblio.org/
[05:24]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 500 @ http://esr.ibiblio.org/ )
[05:26]	techrights-news	 NEWS #EFF #Broadband #Internet A Wide, Diverse Coalition Agrees on What Congress Needs to Do About Our Broadband https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/06/wide-diverse-coalition-agrees-what-congress-needs-do-about-our-broadband
[05:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.eff.org | A Wide, Diverse Coalition Agrees on What Congress Needs to Do About Our Broadband | Electronic Frontier Foundation
[05:31]	techrights-news	RMS: "The #UK plans a new climate impact test for proposed fossil fuel projects. The test will be applied at the very start of the process, which means that an enormous planned oilfield in the North Sea will be exempt from the test." https://stallman.org/archives/2021-mar-jun.html#29_June_2021_(UK_oilfield_exempt_from_carbon_test)
[05:31]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stallman.org | 2021: March - June Political Notes - Richard Stallman
[05:32]	techrights-news	The #geminiSpace directory describes #techrights as (not my words): "Techright is a capsuled [sic] specialised in articles about FLOSS and tech news." gemini://medusae.space/search_url.gmi?techrights
[05:35]	techrights-news	In #geminiSpace #techrights if even listed as top news site (or along them) gemini://gempaper.strangled.net/mirrorlist/
[05:36]	techrights-news	 NEWS #VOANews #Internet #Biden Compares His #Broadband Push to Early 20th Century Rural Electrification https://www.voanews.com/usa/biden-compares-his-broadband-push-early-20th-century-rural-electrification
[05:36]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.voanews.com | Biden Compares His Broadband Push to Early 20th Century Rural Electrification | Voice of America - English
[05:37]	techrights-news	#www is a poor man's #internet and #facebook is a broke person's Internet. #zerorating #misinformation (worse than useless!)
[05:37]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TimesHigherEducation #Internet Dont forget that not all [Internet] access is created equal https://www.timeshighereducation.com/campus/dont-forget-not-all-internet-access-created-equal
[05:37]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.timeshighereducation.com | Dont forget that not all internet access is created equal | THE Campus Learn, Share, Connect
[05:39]	techrights-news	 NEWS #InternationalBusinessTimes #Monopolies #Germany opens #antitrust probe against #Apple https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/germany-opens-antitrust-probe-against-apple-1691555 strings pulled? Whose and who by? http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[05:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.ibtimes.co.uk | Germany opens antitrust probe against Apple
[05:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is a Lot Worse Than Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple | Techrights
[05:39]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TheVerge #Monopolies Sen. Warren calls for meticulous review of Amazons MGM acquisition https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/29/22556369/elizabeth-warren-ftc-review-amazon-mgm-acquisition strings pulled? Whose and who by? Warren HIRED from Microsoft and then omitted them as a problem. http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[05:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theverge.com | Sen. Warren calls for meticulous review of Amazons MGM acquisition - The Verge
[05:40]	techrights-news	 NEWS #ChronicleOfHigherEducation #Copyrights #Copyrights #AlexandraElbakyan #scihub Is the [SHARING] Queen of Scientific Publishing in Real Trouble This Time? https://www.chronicle.com/article/is-the-pirate-queen-of-scientific-publishing-in-real-trouble-this-time
[05:40]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.chronicle.com | Is the Pirate Queen of Scientific Publishing in Real Trouble This Time?
[05:41]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TorrentFreak #copyright #copyrights #youtube #gulag Court Orders YouTube Rippers to Log and Share Data with Record Labels https://torrentfreak.com/court-orders-youtube-rippers-to-log-and-share-user-data-210629/
[05:41]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Court Orders YouTube Rippers to Log and Share Data with Record Labels * TorrentFreak
[05:41]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TorrentFreak #copyright #copyrights High Court Grants Default Judgment in Bitcoin.org Copyright Infringement Case https://torrentfreak.com/high-court-grants-default-judgment-in-bitcoin-org-copyright-infringement-case-210629/
[05:41]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-High Court Grants Default Judgment in Bitcoin.org Copyright Infringement Case * TorrentFreak
[05:44]	schestowitz	[03:44] <leah> schestowitz: i'm working on the savegnu site. i've been clearing up other things from my tasks first
[05:44]	schestowitz	is that a reserved name already?
[05:46]	schestowitz	because it's a loaded statement, implies gnu is dead or dying
[05:46]	schestowitz	which I'd dispute
[05:46]	schestowitz	better to say, advanceGNU
[05:46]	schestowitz	or something more positive without the hypothesis
[05:46]	leah	i own savegnu.org
[05:46]	leah	there's no site yet, however
[05:47]	leah	i believe ariadne has probably told you my plans
[05:47]	leah	i conveyed them to her
[05:47]	schestowitz	we can make it a conservation site :-)
[05:47]	leah	just giving you advanced heads up
[05:47]	leah	site will be live soon
[05:47]	schestowitz	also reserve savepanda.org :-)
[05:47]	leah	i had a much bigger site, but the scope changed, so i started again
[05:47]	leah	new site is very simple
[05:47]	schestowitz	gemini capsule too?
[05:48]	leah	it's literally just a few pages, with a list of proposals i have for what i think should be done, in the fsf, gnu project and in the wider movement, to bring back unity in the free software movement, and advance the movement
[05:48]	leah	no gemini capsule planned right now, because i don't know how to do that
[05:49]	leah	it has had a few false starts
[05:49]	leah	but it'll be live soon
[05:49]	schestowitz	I can help..
[05:49]	leah	help with gemini?
[05:49]	schestowitz	in fact, we can help host that if you set dns
[05:50]	leah	ah, sorry for opsec reasons i don't outsource my hosting
[05:50]	leah	don't take that personally
[05:50]	schestowitz	ok, no worries
[05:50]	leah	i'll teach myself how to do geminin
[05:50]	leah	i don't imagine it's too hard
[05:51]	leah	first plan is, when it's ready i start a public discussion
[05:51]	leah	probably on libreplanet-discuss mailing list
[05:51]	leah	and link to that
[05:52]	techrights-news	#computerworld posts yet more #proprietarySoftware spam (for the sponsors!); "missing bigbluebutton and jitsi-meet, to name two" -iophk https://www.computerworld.com/article/3540259/review-6-top-videoconferencing-services-put-to-the-test.html
[05:52]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Review: 6 top videoconferencing services put to the test | Computerworld
[05:52]	leah	there is a very specific reason to use the libreplanet-discuss list
[05:52]	leah	precisely the right kinds of people are on it
[05:52]	leah	has ariadne told you what i'm planning, schestowitz ?
[05:53]	schestowitz	 no, just that it's a good idea
[05:53]	leah	ok, well i won't go into too much detail now, i'll just finish the site, but:
[05:53]	leah	* fsf should hire programmers
[05:54]	leah	* fsf should take an active technical lead in the free software movement, with full-time development staff
[05:54]	leah	* fsf should continue also doing outreach and licensing/compliance work
[05:54]	schestowitz	that can lead to envy
[05:54]	schestowitz	like paid and unpaid gnu devs
[05:54]	leah	* basically i think the problem with the fsf and gnu project right now is not that the fsf or rms runs it
[05:54]	schestowitz	debian tried that over a decade ago
[05:54]	leah	lots of people lost faith in the fsf
[05:55]	leah	the reason is because fsf doesn't write code
[05:55]	schestowitz	fsfe does not either
[05:55]	schestowitz	we write some, but not a lot
[05:55]	leah	they see an organisation that preaches from the sidelines but doesn't do anything
[05:55]	schestowitz	and we self-host that
[05:55]	leah	i've looked at the fsf's financials
[05:55]	leah	it's ossible
[05:55]	leah	possible
[05:56]	schestowitz	fsf puts forth infra
[05:56]	leah	it can start off small. start a new project as a proof of concept
[05:56]	schestowitz	and makes a list of high-priority projects
[05:56]	leah	for some thing that is needed
[05:56]	leah	yes, exactly schestowitz 
[05:56]	schestowitz	they need to get finished with their Savannah successor
[05:56]	leah	finished? you mean they started?
[05:56]	schestowitz	hiring full-time for ordinary gnu tools seems misguided to me. focus instead on infra for gnu devs
[05:56]	leah	i was going to suggest sourcehut. it's perfect
[05:57]	schestowitz	they were basing it on gitlab
[05:57]	leah	yes well fsf overworks its sysadmin staff
[05:57]	schestowitz	so I heard
[05:57]	schestowitz	about gitlab
[05:57]	schestowitz	not the overworks part
[05:57]	leah	they need more people on technical staff
[05:58]	leah	fsf needs to double it's sysadmin staff
[05:58]	techrights-news	 NEWS #Techdirt #Censorship Once Again: #ContentModeration Often Mistakes Reporting On Bad Behavior With Celebrating Bad Behavior https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210628/17392047080/once-again-content-moderation-often-mistakes-reporting-bad-behavior-with-celebrating-bad-behavior.shtml
[05:58]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Once Again: Content Moderation Often Mistakes Reporting On Bad Behavior With Celebrating Bad Behavior | Techdirt
[05:58]	leah	and i think the policy of hiring devs will pay for itself in the end
[05:58]	leah	if fsf is seen to be producing software, more people donate
[05:58]	leah	plus i've seen fsf's financials. they're public
[05:58]	schestowitz	yes, I know
[05:58]	leah	they can already do this, with 3-5 people if they push it
[05:59]	schestowitz	I saw that too and published portions, iirc
[05:59]	leah	3-5 peolpe paid full time, on US wages
[05:59]	schestowitz	I'm not sure
[05:59]	schestowitz	that's gnu
[05:59]	schestowitz	fsf isn't in the coding business
[05:59]	leah	plus i've identified ways fsf can cut costs and also raise more money, under current status quo
[05:59]	schestowitz	fsf was there to help gnu
[05:59]	schestowitz	gnu can also help gnu
[05:59]	activelow	would be curious which projects fsf should engage 
[05:59]		*activelow listens
[05:59]	leah	well, what if you have a gnu project that is understaffed?
● Jun 30
[06:00]	leah	gnu projects regularly have a lack of maintainers
[06:00]	leah	fsf can assign such new staff to take over development in those instances
[06:00]	leah	anywhere where work is needed
[06:00]	techrights-news	 NEWS #Techdirt #Ubisoft Teams Up With Mystery Rights Holder To Remove Fun Fan-Made 'GoldenEye 007' Maps From 'Far Cry' https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210629/09255747084/ubisoft-teams-up-with-mystery-rights-holder-to-remove-fun-fan-made-goldeneye-007-maps-far-cry.shtml
[06:00]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Ubisoft Teams Up With Mystery Rights Holder To Remove Fun Fan-Made 'GoldenEye 007' Maps From 'Far Cry' | Techdirt
[06:00]	leah	if you show the positive results of this (more software written), more people donate
[06:00]	leah	plus i've identified ways that the fsf can more aggressively raise funding for gnu projects
[06:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 25.71   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 20.71 swarm size (avg): 307.05  
[06:00]	leah	i've already told fsf my ideas
[06:01]	leah	and applied for the job of executive director
[06:01]	schestowitz	I remember gnash
[06:01]	schestowitz	and the funding aspect
[06:01]	leah	if they hire me, it will be because they agree with my plans
[06:01]	leah	if they don't hire me, well that's their choice. but i've extended my hand
[06:01]	leah	if they hire me, i'll start on this
[06:02]	leah	fsf played a technical role in the past
[06:02]	leah	hired devs
[06:02]	schestowitz	throwing money at things does not always solve issues
[06:02]	leah	well my original inspiration was the gnu assembly
[06:02]	schestowitz	it can create other (new) issues
[06:02]	schestowitz	freenode is one example
[06:02]		*activelow thinks fsf should support a non-c++ gcc replacement and j-core.org
[06:02]	leah	the gnu assembly wants to break away from fsf's control, and from rms's control
[06:02]	schestowitz	gnu assembly is BS
[06:03]	leah	yes, it is BS
[06:03]	schestowitz	it's also connected to IBM
[06:03]	leah	but they're doing that because they see an overall lack of technical leadership, and funding issues
[06:03]	leah	and they actually raise good points
[06:03]	schestowitz	Red Hat infiltrated gnu projects for many years
[06:03]	schestowitz	now it vainly assumes it owns them
[06:03]	leah	i think the people in gnu assembly just want control, and are puppets of companies that bankroll them
[06:03]	schestowitz	and that the fsf is indented to IBM
[06:03]	schestowitz	*indebted
[06:03]	schestowitz	and that IBM should call the shots and appoint people
[06:03]	leah	well the gnu assembly i think is going to take over, if fsf doesn't do something
[06:04]	leah	fsf needs to take the initiative
[06:04]	leah	and i have a plan
[06:04]	leah	i don't need savegnu.org to implement that plan if fsf hires me
[06:04]	leah	i'm doing savegnu for in case they don't hire me
[06:04]	schestowitz	weird diplomacy, imho
[06:04]	schestowitz	hire me, or else :-)
[06:04]	leah	because if they don't, then my plan b is to convince whoever they do hire, befriend the new fsf status quo
[06:04]	schestowitz	contengencies
[06:05]	schestowitz	*contingencies
[06:05]	leah	oh, is that how it sounds?
[06:05]	leah	it's unintentional
[06:05]	leah	i mean it will also increase my chance of getting hired i think, by going into more detail
[06:05]	leah	the CV i sent them barely scratches the surface. for what my agenda is, i need a full site
[06:06]	leah	plus if i can get people onboard and demonstarte that my ideas have a decent level of public support
[06:06]	leah	well, you get it
[06:06]	schestowitz	yes, I do
[06:06]	leah	so i'm putting forth my ideas
[06:06]	leah	and fsf can see i've applied
[06:06]	schestowitz	I still think they need cash reserves, not big...
[06:06]	schestowitz	but just in case
[06:06]	schestowitz	eff keeps 40 million in the bank but goes nowhere
[06:06]	schestowitz	money is not the issue
[06:07]	schestowitz	the message and strategy is
[06:07]	schestowitz	money poisons institutions
[06:07]	leah	well that's the beauty of my plan
[06:07]	schestowitz	hiring many people may look good; but it also makes them expensive to run
[06:07]	leah	i only need to implement it and start 1 successful project
[06:07]	leah	i'll start small and hire 2 web devs to start a new project to free javascript on major websites
[06:08]	activelow	wow
[06:08]	techrights-news	 NEWS #CounterPunch #wikileaks Holder, Barr, DOJ and FBI Outed in Slimy Plot Against #Assange https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/06/29/holder-barr-doj-and-fbi-outed-in-slimy-plot-against-assange/
[06:08]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Holder, Barr, DOJ and FBI Outed in Slimy Plot Against Assange - CounterPunch.org
[06:08]	leah	integrating something in icecat that automatically downloads javascript from a repository somewhere (hosted by fsf)
[06:08]	activelow	leah: how should this in principle be possible?
[06:08]	leah	do that as a proof of concept
[06:08]	schestowitz	the web is f'ed imho
[06:08]	leah	and also because i think that is needed
[06:08]	schestowitz	we need to move away from the web
[06:08]	leah	not gonna happen
[06:08]	schestowitz	you cannot redeem it anymore
[06:08]	schestowitz	use it in tandem with something else
[06:09]	activelow	anything at the javascript battle front is wasted time and resources
[06:09]	schestowitz	oliva gave a talk about it
[06:09]	leah	yep, but the web isn't going away
[06:09]	schestowitz	in libreplanet, with rms involved
[06:09]	schestowitz	wwworst he called it
[06:09]	leah	yes, the wwworst app store
[06:09]	leah	i was there, i saw the talk
[06:09]	leah	i was playing on fsf's minetest server and listening to the talk
[06:09]	schestowitz	[06:09] <leah> yep, but the web isn't going away
[06:09]	schestowitz	it is, eventually
[06:10]	schestowitz	everything goes away
[06:10]	schestowitz	the question is when
[06:10]	schestowitz	IBM will also go away after 100+ years
[06:10]	leah	on what basis do you make this prediction?
[06:10]	leah	i'm thinking about the here and now
[06:10]	leah	but you know what, it doesn't have to be that project
[06:10]	leah	it could be anything on the high priority list
[06:10]	schestowitz	I agree with activelow
[06:10]	schestowitz	messing around with js is lots of worse
[06:11]	leah	https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/
[06:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fsf.org | High Priority Free Software Projects Free Software Foundation Working together for free software
[06:11]	schestowitz	and you die in the process or fighting to liberate it
[06:11]	leah	any of those then. doesn't really matter
[06:11]	schestowitz	because you play with a ball or wool
[06:11]	leah	my point is, i think fsf's problem is that all it does is preach and provide infrastructure. but it tries to have its cake and eat it
[06:11]	leah	it doesn't hire enough full time staff for even that
[06:11]	schestowitz	salaries are expensive
[06:11]	schestowitz	we need communities
[06:11]	leah	my plans are risky, but i think they'll have widespread support
[06:12]	leah	and it's possible to fund
[06:12]	schestowitz	many people can work on the side, as I do...
[06:12]	leah	even if fsf only ever hires 2-3 devs at a time
[06:12]	leah	(2-3 full time)
[06:12]	leah	plus
[06:12]	leah	most software projects don't need full time work
[06:12]	leah	more like part time
[06:12]	leah	so a lot of those devs are actually going to end up being part time
[06:12]	schestowitz	I do not share that strategy, and let me explain why:
[06:12]	schestowitz	1. you cannot hire your way into ideology
[06:13]	schestowitz	2. some people tried and failed
[06:13]	schestowitz	3. your strength is in numbers
[06:13]	schestowitz	4. you need to convince people to join you
[06:13]	schestowitz	5. for (4), you need messaging
[06:13]	leah	#1 is true. you could end up hiring someone who's just in it for the wage
[06:13]	schestowitz	6. one example of (5) is bad vista and 7 sins
[06:14]	schestowitz	7. you need to change people's perception of thing and get them to "fight the good fight"
[06:14]	schestowitz	8. environmentalists are one good example, antiwar is another
[06:14]	leah	my perspective is slightly different, in that i'm more practical
[06:14]	schestowitz	9. codepink isn't "hiring" campaigners
[06:14]	leah	my whole startegy is putting something in front of someone, that they can actually use
[06:14]	schestowitz	I think that's about all I have to say for now, but (10) would seem a better number
[06:15]	leah	free software ideology is the foundation, but actual free software is critical
[06:15]		*swimmer83 (~swimmer@ip5b4276c1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #techrights
[06:15]	schestowitz	we already have free sw
[06:15]	schestowitz	don't get me wrong;;
[06:15]	schestowitz	the software is here
[06:15]	schestowitz	right here, right now
[06:15]	schestowitz	kde plasma5
[06:15]	schestowitz	apache
[06:15]	schestowitz	gemini toolsets
[06:15]	schestowitz	decent browsers too
[06:15]	schestowitz	but the issue we have revolves around other problems
[06:16]	schestowitz	openwashing, like systemd and other OSPS, e.g. chromium
[06:16]	schestowitz	you moreover have a marketing gap
[06:16]	schestowitz	but we cannot "buy ads" to win
[06:16]	schestowitz	it won't scale
[06:16]	schestowitz	ken starks tried with nascar
[06:16]	schestowitz	we need to fight along ideological lines
[06:16]	schestowitz	RMS does that
[06:17]	leah	yep
[06:17]	schestowitz	we need more people to go around explaining to people, inc. officials, why their org/nation/company should change
[06:17]	schestowitz	self-hosting
[06:17]	schestowitz	back doors eliminated
[06:17]	leah	i'm not saying replace the current fsf btw
[06:17]	schestowitz	technical debt
[06:17]	schestowitz	(=no vendor lockin)
[06:17]	leah	what fsf currently does can and should continue
[06:17]	schestowitz	hiring more devs means more code
[06:17]	schestowitz	but more code does not beget more users
[06:18]	leah	well i think there's room
[06:18]	leah	i've run the numbers
[06:18]	schestowitz	when there's a technical need people write code regardless
[06:18]	schestowitz	initially for themselves
[06:18]	schestowitz	no need to 'fund' them
[06:18]	leah	i've also assumed the worst, due to covid (current financials aren't available for scrutinyyet, but i assume covid made things worse. my budgeting assumes that 1/3 of fsf's usual annual finances are wiped out)
[06:18]	schestowitz	all that Red Hat and LF stuff
[06:19]	schestowitz	they present the wrong issues
[06:19]	schestowitz	like "funding" and "diversity"
[06:19]	schestowitz	as it we'll magically succeed IF
[06:19]	schestowitz	we had more colour diversity
[06:19]	schestowitz	and if we get some more money
[06:19]	leah	you initially said that my idea would lead to jealousy issues
[06:19]	leah	can you explain that?
[06:19]	schestowitz	those are misframings
[06:19]	schestowitz	like saying "LINUX" will succeed with more marketing
[06:19]	schestowitz	the issue is Microsoft corruption, inc. bribery
[06:20]	schestowitz	not that Linux is "hard to use"
[06:20]	schestowitz	TideLift (Red Hat et al) is among the BS club
[06:20]	leah	i think the potential is there, but it's a gamble. that's why i'd start off small
[06:20]	schestowitz	they misframe the issues
[06:20]		*activelow would propose something else, i'll have some coffee first, ttyl
[06:20]	schestowitz	with their 'studies'
[06:20]	leah	hire 2 devs, to work on any project listed on high priority list
[06:20]	schestowitz	they see everything in green (money, not environment)
[06:20]	schestowitz	[06:19] <leah> you initially said that my idea would lead to jealousy issues
[06:20]	leah	see how it goes. fsf can do it, with current budgeting, and there are ways to boost their finances
[06:21]	schestowitz	yes, you then differentiate paid and unpaid
[06:21]	schestowitz	that happened in Debian when HP et al offered money
[06:21]	schestowitz	it didn't encourage more work
[06:21]	leah	well unpaid just means you're funded some other way. everyone needs to get paid
[06:21]	schestowitz	it made some people feel discriminated, like unpaid serfs
[06:21]	schestowitz	Fedora is now having the same issue
[06:21]	leah	if someone works on something unpaid, they'll be paid by someone else probably
[06:21]	schestowitz	as many core people are paid IBM shills
[06:21]	schestowitz	and the rest are unpaid volunteers who test and "file bugs"
[06:22]	leah	i see what you mean
[06:22]	leah	i'm not sure how much worse that would be than the current situation though
[06:22]	leah	debian and fedora projects already produce software
[06:22]	leah	fsf doesn't
[06:22]	schestowitz	that's because fsf is different
[06:22]	schestowitz	tbh:
[06:22]	schestowitz	this is the first time I hear this
[06:22]	schestowitz	I heard that about fsfe
[06:22]	schestowitz	not fsf
[06:23]	schestowitz	fsf is for advocacy and support
[06:23]	schestowitz	it's not a coding mill
[06:23]	leah	not yet
[06:23]	schestowitz	just as techrights is not
[06:23]	leah	that's exactly why the fsf should hire me
[06:23]	schestowitz	we mostly cover news and stuff
[06:23]	schestowitz	we also make code, but maybe 50-100 scripts
[06:23]	leah	i'll keep the current layers of fsf intact, but add another layer
[06:23]	schestowitz	and not very long, either
[06:23]	leah	and even take a technical lead myself, in some projects
[06:24]	leah	there is no reason why the fsf can't do this
[06:24]	leah	they've done it before
[06:24]	leah	hired devs to work on specific projects where work needed doing
[06:25]	schestowitz	maybe they did
[06:25]	schestowitz	afaik, they devotes some money to projects
[06:25]	schestowitz	not the same as hiring
[06:25]	schestowitz	hiring a person entails more obligations
[06:25]	schestowitz	contractual
[06:25]	schestowitz	granting some funds to a project doesn't mean pensions and payslips
[06:25]	schestowitz	or dental etc.
[06:26]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/08/16/the-linux-racket/
[06:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Linux Foundation Exceeds $100,000,000 in Revenue and Jim Zemlin Now Pays Himself About a Million Dollars a Year While His Foundation Operates at a Loss of $732,261 | Techrights
[06:26]	schestowitz	now with all events (real ones) canceled
[06:26]	schestowitz	they have a crisis at LF
[06:26]	leah	i think it would work
[06:26]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2021/01/25/linux-foundation-training-and-certifications/
[06:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Linux Foundation, With Over 124 Million Dollars in Annual Revenue, is in Trouble Because of the Pandemic, So Its Trying to Reinvent Itself as Training and Certifications Outfit | Techrights
[06:26]	leah	but you're right that it's risky
[06:27]	schestowitz	very risky
[06:27]	leah	i imagine there will be same opposition to it
[06:27]	schestowitz	as there's no way back
[06:27]	leah	s/same/some
[06:27]	leah	no way back?
[06:27]	schestowitz	if people come to expect a certain high salary
[06:27]	schestowitz	in techrighrs nobody is paid
[06:27]	schestowitz	so we don't need to worry about raising money etc.
[06:27]	schestowitz	I'm not paid either, I PAY
[06:27]	schestowitz	electricity etc.
[06:28]	leah	i think most people working on a given free software project aren't working on it full time though
[06:28]	schestowitz	iirc, openbsd was in the same situation, with theo paying to run like 20 servers at home
[06:28]	leah	they'll probably work on it 1-2 hours daily at most. often much less
[06:28]	schestowitz	or phoronix with lots of gear running too... but no expenses as all the work is done by michael with help from the wife, fatima
[06:28]	schestowitz	fsf needs to be lean and (maybe) mean
[06:28]	schestowitz	maybe not mean
[06:29]	schestowitz	but the saying goes like that
[06:29]	schestowitz	this way it can MOON IBM
[06:29]	leah	well we'll see
[06:29]	schestowitz	when IBM says "no money money..."
[06:29]	leah	if they hire me, it's likely because they agree with my plans, but they'll want me to tone it down a bit
[06:29]	leah	be more conservative about it i mean
[06:29]	leah	e.g. not hire 2-3 full time staff
[06:30]	leah	but start out with 2-3 part-time devs hired to work on specific projects deemed high priority
[06:30]	schestowitz	many people already make free software
[06:30]	schestowitz	money isn't the issue
[06:30]	leah	well if they're open to my ideas, they'll at least interview me probably
[06:30]	leah	yeah but how many people writing free software get paid to do so?
[06:30]	schestowitz	again, not the real issue
[06:30]	schestowitz	money isn't the issue
[06:30]	leah	i imagine most of them aren't doing it full time
[06:30]	schestowitz	we need to win the arguments
[06:30]	leah	unless maybe they have a patreon or whatever
[06:31]	schestowitz	at the moment there's a big problem like people outsourcing code to crooks at Microsoft
[06:31]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/10/11/nat-friedman-proprietary-software/
[06:31]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | GitHubs Nat Friedman Defended Proprietary Software at Novell, So Why Not at Microsoft? | Techrights
[06:31]	schestowitz	and each project they take control of is a win for them
[06:31]	schestowitz	gnu and fsf have said nothing about it for years
[06:31]	schestowitz	didn't even try to oppose the takeover
[06:31]	schestowitz	or wage antitrust actions
[06:31]	schestowitz	nothing
[06:31]	schestowitz	so here we are...
[06:32]	schestowitz	with traitors from 'gnu' (IBM) outsourcing to Microsoft
[06:32]	schestowitz	and another novell
[06:32]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2021/06/07/ibm-self-harm-swpats/
[06:32]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IBM is Doing to Red Hat What Novell Did to SUSE (and People Are Leaving) | Techrights
[06:33]	techrights-news	 NEWS #CraigMurray #blackmail #wikileaks #assange #FBI Fabrication Against Assange Falls Apart https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2021/06/fbi-fabrication-against-assange-falls-apart/
[06:33]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.craigmurray.org.uk | FBI Fabrication Against Assange Falls Apart - Craig Murray
[06:35]	leah	that is actually one of the main reasons why i want to do what i've come up with
[06:35]	leah	i want the fsf to have meaningful control over development
[06:37]	leah	most people are practical. they'll listen to your ideology but at the end of the day they're interested in bread and butter on the table
[06:37]	leah	and fsf can be that too
[06:37]	leah	if fsf hires me, i'm pressing ahead with this plan. but i'll start small, see how it goes. operating very carefully
[06:37]	leah	your thing where you said the fsf shouldn't be a "code mill" is
[06:37]	leah	well
[06:38]	leah	that's exactly what i want the fsf to become
[06:39]	leah	it's feasible under the current status quo. fsf actaully runs budget surpluses each year
[06:39]	leah	but i think if this is successful and people see it being a success, more people will join as fsf members and more will donate in general. fsf's finances will increase
[06:40]	leah	the issue of money is only relevant if you have a single organisation funding the fsf
[06:40]	schestowitz	where will money come from?
[06:40]	leah	this would be people powered
[06:40]	leah	from ordinary people donating
[06:40]	schestowitz	not many people would
[06:40]	leah	e.g. associate members paying 120 usd each year
[06:40]	leah	this has never been tried before on the scale i want
[06:40]	leah	the way i'm planning it, if this fails it can always be scaled back to nothing
[06:41]	leah	i'll do a trial run. a very conservative one
[06:41]	leah	schestowitz:  and this conversation has innspired me to open up discussion sooner. i imagine more people will think like you, or have other ideas
[06:42]	leah	i want to see what the wider community of people thinks about my ideas
[06:42]	leah	thing is i know some projects require more work than others
[06:43]	leah	in practise there are only going to be very specific projects that could benefit from this kind of initiative
[06:43]	leah	my concept is this: anywhere where work needs to be done, fsf can send real developers in to help
[06:43]	schestowitz	the fsf is run by its treasurer
[06:43]	schestowitz	decades-long
[06:43]	schestowitz	he would know about fund-raising
[06:43]	schestowitz	better than we know
[06:43]	leah	yes the current treasurer is geoff knauth, who is also the president
[06:45]	leah	thanks for this discussion schestowitz 
[06:46]	leah	i'll see what happens first. if they like my ideas, then they can bring me onboard. otherwise.. well in general i think things will be fine in the long term
[06:46]	leah	i see great opportunity here though. i think free software is stagnating
[06:46]	schestowitz	no worries
[06:46]	schestowitz	any time..
[06:46]	schestowitz	XRevan86: meduza rss is back!
[06:46]	leah	open source thrives
[06:46]	leah	free software though, is on a decline
[06:47]	techrights-news	 NEWS #meduza #ru #russia #Navalny Russia announces international manhunt for top Navalny aide, arrests him in absentia https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/06/29/russia-announces-international-manhunt-for-top-navalny-aide-arrests-him-in-absentia
[06:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLE
[06:47]	leah	the solution basically is for fsf to double down and take a decisive lead. stop waiting for the outside world to solve their problems. but that's just me, and i could be wrong
[06:47]	schestowitz	open source died
[06:47]	schestowitz	it's openwashing now
[06:47]	leah	i need to start that public discussion
[06:47]	schestowitz	and yes, proprietary software falsely marketed is doing ok
[06:47]	leah	on libreplanet-discuss and a few other places
[06:47]	schestowitz	on false "open" github
[06:47]	schestowitz	proprietary
[06:47]	XRevan86	schestowitz: At least some good news
[06:47]	schestowitz	so we have much work left to do
[06:48]	XRevan86	Not the literal news though.
[06:48]	leah	imagine an fsf with 10x the current funding
[06:48]	schestowitz	money doesn't always solve issue
[06:48]	leah	i think this is possible, with my plans. the plan, if successful, will pay for itself. it will attract more funding from the public, and from organisations
[06:48]	schestowitz	ir can contribute to issues
[06:48]	schestowitz	like heavyweight org
[06:48]	schestowitz	"mo money mo problems" -sean combs
[06:49]	schestowitz	dmx died not so long age
[06:49]	schestowitz	*ago
[06:49]	leah	money can be used for good too
[06:49]	schestowitz	many of the singers from that era die
[06:49]	schestowitz	some with addition or substance issues
[06:49]	schestowitz	leah: can
[06:49]	schestowitz	so can communities
[06:49]	leah	i think this will be a success, if attempted
[06:49]	schestowitz	human capacity in western society is more valuable
[06:50]	schestowitz	we don't fight for a literal bread
[06:50]	leah	fsf has the clout to get it done. it has the authority
[06:50]	XRevan86	schestowitz: Regarding freenode and money, it kind of didn't have money thrown at it, the people who ran it weren't employed. Of course now it's a commercial company through and through, but that's not exactly the result of money throwing.
[06:50]	leah	people would jump at the opportunity, and it would kickstart the movement
[06:50]	leah	of course, money can also corrupt as you say
[06:50]	schestowitz	XRevan86: but the introduction of business oriented thinking killed it
[06:51]	schestowitz	staff as volunteers works ok
[06:51]	schestowitz	as long as it's not run by a drug addict with ego issues
[06:51]	XRevan86	schestowitz: It was more of a racket that killed it.
[06:51]	schestowitz	kape etc.
[06:51]	schestowitz	gambling
[06:52]	schestowitz	btw, mr. bigshot bitcoin died
[06:52]	schestowitz	drowning
[06:52]	schestowitz	he was in #techrights before
[06:52]	schestowitz	lots of deaths recently
[06:52]	XRevan86	schestowitz: He was? Weird.
[06:53]	schestowitz	feels like i'm in some african country
[06:53]	schestowitz	with high child mortality and malaria or something
[06:53]	schestowitz	also, quite a few deaths of people who used to be here in irc
[06:53]	schestowitz	wikileaks has lots of death around it
[06:53]	schestowitz	you could just about smell the stench
[06:53]	schestowitz	dead lawyers and associates
[06:54]	schestowitz	@6, arjen, some lawyers (onlyleft, several other Assange lawyers)
[06:54]	schestowitz	https://news.bitcoin.com/mysterious-bitcoin-maximalist-mircea-popescu-allegedly-found-dead/
[06:54]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.bitcoin.com | Mysterious Bitcoin Maximalist Mircea Popescu Allegedly Found Dead Bitcoin News
[06:55]	techrights-news	 NEWS #meduza #ru #russia Ill survive some community service Proekts journalists talk to Meduza after facing #police raids and interrogations https://meduza.io/en/feature/2021/06/29/i-ll-survive-some-community-service
[06:55]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLE
[06:57]	XRevan86	They say that the defamation case under which they were searched expired in 2019.
[06:58]	XRevan86	The Putin's press secretary Pieskov of course says that there are lawful reasons for such actions.
● Jun 30
[07:00]	XRevan86	But when the head of the ministry of internal affairs is involved, expiration dates become meaningless.
[07:00]	techrights-news	Coming soon to the UK: The 'Wembley variant' (with over 20,000 new cases per day you know the stadium had LOADS of COVID positives in it) http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/06/30/wembley-losing-control-of-covid/
[07:00]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Britain Lost in Wembley
[07:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 30.43   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 28.60 swarm size (avg): 307.18  
[07:02]	techrights-news	 NEWS #meduza #ru #russia #slapp Russian oligarch #EvgenyPrigozhin files libel lawsuit against The Insider https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/06/29/russian-oligarch-evgeny-prigozhin-files-libel-lawsuit-against-the-insider
[07:02]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-meduza.io | NO TITLE
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[07:03]	techrights-news	 NEWS #Techdirt 'Malicious' Actor Is Wiping The Data Of Countless #WesternDigital My Book Users https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210625/09331947056/malicious-actor-is-wiping-data-countless-western-digital-my-book-users.shtml
[07:03]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-'Malicious' Actor Is Wiping The Data Of Countless Western Digital My Book Users | Techdirt
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[07:03]	activelow	i think gnu and fsf should remember their origins, which isn't some shiny bright consumer desktops and big foss
[07:04]	activelow	instead *nix originated in academia, at universities and research institutions, in particular telecom
[07:04]	activelow	and this is where gnu and fsf are loosing ground to proprietary vendors
[07:04]	schestowitz	are they?
[07:04]	schestowitz	maybe the labels changed
[07:05]	schestowitz	but deep down there's freesw
[07:05]	activelow	i accept any argument which contradicts mine schestowitz
[07:05]	activelow	yet i do remember what laboratories at Deutsche Telekom university were equipped with
[07:05]	techrights-news	 NEWS #Techdirt Court Tosses Both #FTC And States' #Antitrust Cases Against Facebook; You Gotta Have More Than 'Big Facebook Bad' https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210628/16091047077/court-tosses-both-ftc-states-antitrust-cases-against-facebook-you-gotta-have-more-than-big-facebook-bad.shtml http://techrights.org/2021/06/24/microsoft-attacking-linux-from-the-inside/
[07:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Court Tosses Both FTC And States' Antitrust Cases Against Facebook; You Gotta Have More Than 'Big Facebook Bad' | Techdirt
[07:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Politicians Need to Crack Down on Microsofts Monopoly Abuse Amid Yet More Attacks on Linux (Even From the Inside) | Techrights
[07:06]	schestowitz	activelow: iirc, they work a lot with red hat
[07:06]	schestowitz	now ibm
[07:06]	schestowitz	all sorts of corporate 'oss'
[07:07]	schestowitz	based on gnu further down at the bottom
[07:07]	activelow	yet this isn't the realm and origin of *nix, science and engineering
[07:07]	activelow	universities and telco were
[07:08]	schestowitz	that used to be more proprietary
[07:08]	activelow	telco is 100% proprietary
[07:08]	activelow	to provoke
[07:09]	schestowitz	openwashing
[07:09]	schestowitz	around their consortia and LF
[07:09]	schestowitz	telco is like a cartel
[07:09]	schestowitz	they just try to sprinkle some "open shit" on it
[07:10]	leah	schestowitz:  btw sorry i'm a bit tired, i want to clarify what i said earlier:
[07:11]	leah	i meant that the savegnu site is for my public campaign, regardless of whether i get the job; but if i get the job, then i'll be in the perfect spot to lead that campaign. but if i don't get it, the campaign is still worthwhile anyway and i'll still pursue it but at that point it'd be me trying to influence whoever else  gets it
[07:12]	leah	i disagree with your original assertion that "save" is too loaded/strong use of language. i really do think it needs saving
[07:13]	leah	it's stagnating and there are people trying to break apart
[07:13]	schestowitz	not for those reasons
[07:13]	schestowitz	such as funding
[07:13]	leah	gnu assembly was the catalyst that made me start thinking about all of this, and to come up with these plans
[07:13]	schestowitz	in fact, some of them are already well funded
[07:13]	schestowitz	they just want to get rid of 'stinky RMS'
[07:13]	leah	even if my plan isn't implemented at all, i do still think i'd be a good executive director
[07:14]	schestowitz	because his worldviews don't match up with their employment arrangements
[07:14]	leah	and i do think the fsf still needs like, at least 1 extra full-time sysadmin to run all the infrastructure
[07:14]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/06/05/guix-petition/
[07:14]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Guix Petition Demographic Data, by Figosdev | Techrights
[07:14]	schestowitz	tons of IBM staff
[07:14]	leah	well i'm not thinking of rms here
[07:15]	leah	i defended him to correct a previous injustice; my attacks against him in 2016, and also because i disliked the smear campaign against him, so i came to his aid
[07:15]	leah	rms represents an obstacle for those people specifically though, the ibm staffers
[07:15]	leah	he's an ideological obstacle. he'd raise a stink about any insidious plans they'd have to corrupt the fsf
[07:15]	leah	or the gnu project
[07:16]	leah	getting rid of rms was only phase 1 of their plan
[07:16]	schestowitz	or their business
[07:16]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2021/03/28/ibm-and-rms-incompatible/
[07:16]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IBM and RMS Are Not Compatible | Techrights
[07:16]	schestowitz	FSF needs less corporate money
[07:16]	leah	agreed
[07:16]	schestowitz	that may also mean not more salaries
[07:16]	leah	well take gcc for example
[07:16]	schestowitz	adding weight to it is making it like Mozilla
[07:17]	schestowitz	and we know what happened to Mozilla
[07:17]	activelow	to provoke again: IBM/red hat are almost irelevant on the university schedule of telco engineering, same with microsoft
[07:17]	leah	many of them are on redhat payroll
[07:17]	leah	who is owned by ibm
[07:17]	leah	so fsf and the gnu project already have less control. plus i'm told gcc no longer requires copyright assignment to the fsf for new code contributions
[07:17]	activelow	first lectures were analog electronics, digital circuit design, little later signal processing followed
[07:17]	schestowitz	"A friend of mine was attending one of the OLF Conferences, on Saturday November 7th, and he happened to find a seat listening to Bob Young of Red Hat. Young was telling a story about how a few years ago he had explained to Richard Stallman that he himself was more committed to Free Software than Stallman was. In his view, Stallman was only ideologically supporting Free Software, while Red Hats entire business model depended upon on it. And 
[07:18]	schestowitz	through Red Hats commercialization of GNU/Linux, Young had brought open-source/free software into wide-spread corporate acceptance and into the marketplace such that many more people could benefit."
[07:18]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/11/09/thomas-grzybowski-on-freesw/
[07:18]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Free Software Freedom is Not Linux | Techrights
[07:18]	leah	redhat depends on open source, not free software
[07:18]	activelow	which reminds me again of j-core.org, the situation around xilinx/altera and the silicon valley cartel 
[07:19]	leah	and now redhat depends on whatever ibm says they depend on
[07:19]	activelow	so, fsf gnu etc. are whining about lack of free and open hardware, reason being is their lack of awareness and wrong priorities
[07:19]	leah	imagine fsf with the same resources and clout as redhat
[07:19]	leah	but still with the same ideological zeal
[07:20]	leah	funded by members donating to it as usual
[07:20]	schestowitz	no, that's all wrong
[07:20]	schestowitz	fsf should not be big
[07:20]	schestowitz	i'm sort of fatigued over all this
[07:21]	schestowitz	the idea things need to be big
[07:21]	schestowitz	like,
[07:21]	schestowitz	europe needs tech giants
[07:21]	schestowitz	no, it doesn't 
[07:21]	schestowitz	we need many family-owned things
[07:21]	schestowitz	like SMEs
[07:21]	schestowitz	we don't need to mimic pentagon  valley
[07:21]	schestowitz	because we know that leads to oppression of the domestic populate with gov complicity
[07:21]	schestowitz	as for fsf
[07:21]	schestowitz	and non-profits
[07:22]	schestowitz	they're not in need of becoming employers
[07:22]	schestowitz	[05:19] <techrights-news> NEWS #Newsweek #Censorship Requiem for the American #CivilLiberties Union https://www.newsweek.com/requiem-american-civil-liberties-union-opinion-1600579 "The #ACLU is now rolling in money, but it is intellectually bankrupt in its defense of free speech"
[07:22]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.newsweek.com | Requiem for the American Civil Liberties Union | Opinion
[07:22]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2021/04/16/eff-rogue/
[07:22]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The EFF Attacks Software Freedom and Promotes Fake Privacy Linked to Microsoft | Techrights
[07:22]	schestowitz	not everything needs to run like a business
[07:22]	schestowitz	otherwise it becomes a business
[07:23]	schestowitz	and fsf should never become a business
[07:23]	activelow	if fsf and gnu seek to strengthen the movement they shouldn't seek to transform into party politics outlets (fsfe) or big-foss corporate outlets (fsf)
[07:23]	activelow	fsf and gnu need to strengthen their affiliation with Universities
[07:24]	activelow	and in particular those which lecture electronics, maths, telco engineering, physics etc. (instead of gender blah)
[07:25]	leah	what does "big foss" mean?
[07:26]	activelow	leah: to keep it simple with one criteria, big foss is those products not suitable for university lectures anymore
[07:26]	leah	?
[07:27]	gustaf	leah: it's just something Andrew Lee came up with to justify kicking off the FSF from Freenode
[07:27]	activelow	let me ask: do you think GCC is a suitable product to study compilers?
[07:27]	leah	"instead of gender blah"
[07:27]	leah	universities typically only talk about that if you do gender studies
[07:27]	leah	otherwise they'll teach you computer science or math or whatever you set out to study. don't be ridiculous
[07:28]	activelow	gender studies isn't an academic subject of telco engineering, the origin of *nix
[07:28]	leah	gustaf: yes, i've seen the term used by that person, but i still don't fully know
[07:28]	schestowitz	"big foss" is a laughable term
[07:28]	schestowitz	I responded to that the other day
[07:28]	leah	i'm currently rejecting it as hyperbole
[07:28]	schestowitz	in http://techrights.org/2021/06/25/andrew-lee-l0de-interview/
[07:28]	leah	"big foss" is that like "big tech"?
[07:28]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Annotated Transcript of Andrew Lee (Freenode) Interview With Lode Ray Dio | Techrights
[07:29]	schestowitz	it's "shit" people say when high on drugs
[07:29]	schestowitz	"big tech" is a Microsoft invention
[07:29]	schestowitz	astroturfing campaign
[07:29]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[07:29]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is a Lot Worse Than Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple | Techrights
[07:29]	leah	so i just have to snort a line of cocaine to understand it
[07:29]	schestowitz	as we explained all along
[07:29]	leah	thanks for clarifying
[07:29]	schestowitz	now we have hard evidence that Microsoft was behind it
[07:30]	schestowitz	so it can attack us while keeping us distracted http://techrights.org/2021/06/24/microsoft-attacking-linux-from-the-inside/
[07:30]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Politicians Need to Crack Down on Microsofts Monopoly Abuse Amid Yet More Attacks on Linux (Even From the Inside) | Techrights
[07:32]	techrights-news	 NEWS #TheNation The #Biden Administration and Congress Have a Chance to Tame Big Tech https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/the-biden-administration-and-congress-have-a-chance-to-tame-big-tech/ stop saying "Big Tech"; that's #microsoft #astroturfing http://techrights.org/2021/06/24/microsoft-attacking-linux-from-the-inside/ http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[07:32]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thenation.com | The Biden Administration and Congress Have a Chance to Tame Big Tech | The Nation
[07:33]	activelow	i do not think fsf and gnu can and should compete with big foss commerce and microsoft
[07:33]	leah	schestowitz:  yeah that l0de interview was what made me back away from freenode
[07:33]	leah	that place is poison
[07:34]	activelow	fsf and gnu can compete at Universities, in the realm of electronics, telco engineering, signal processing, hardware circuit design - and realign their priorities accordingly
[07:34]	gustaf	"Big FOSS" is so transparently stupid it's become a meme
[07:35]	activelow	and then leah, once you finished one such university lecture, you may seek leadership position
[07:35]	gustaf	...
[07:35]	leah	?
[07:36]	XRevan86	leah: "i'm currently rejecting it as hyperbole" it's not.
[07:36]	leah	activelow: your sentences make no sense
[07:36]	schestowitz	"Big Vegan"
[07:36]	leah	big tech...rights
[07:36]	leah	sorry, i had to :P
[07:37]	schestowitz	"Greedy Greta"
[07:37]	XRevan86	rasengan used the term more than once.
[07:37]	activelow	leah: then learn to read
[07:37]	XRevan86	It's easy to blame a big bad for one's misfortune.
[07:38]	activelow	i had some literature recommendations for gnu and fsf
[07:38]	schestowitz	I remember when ROBBER BARON Bill Gates (GENIUS!) lectured us all on "gentle capitalism!"
[07:38]	schestowitz	like 10 years ago
[07:38]	schestowitz	the person who robs you... a true gentleman
[07:38]	schestowitz	sometimes invertion works
[07:38]	schestowitz	Green BP
[07:38]	schestowitz	Open AT Microsoft
[07:39]	schestowitz	*inversion
[07:39]	schestowitz	whatever you are accused if
[07:39]	schestowitz	*of 
[07:39]	schestowitz	many examples
[07:39]	schestowitz	"spreading democracy" (bombing)
[07:40]	schestowitz	Works now only for reputation laundering
[07:41]	schestowitz	but daemonisation too
[07:41]	schestowitz	Greed Animal Shelter
[07:41]	schestowitz	"Fair and balanced" Fox News [sic]
[07:42]	schestowitz	Department of Defence
[07:42]	schestowitz	Used to be called Department of War
[07:42]	activelow	and the "big tech" headquarters in silicon valley are an outlet of theirs
[07:43]	schestowitz	"Linux" Foundation
[07:43]	activelow	aligned to a strategy of economic warfare, "america first" which was implemented long before Trump spouted it around the globe
[07:44]	leah	"big tech" is very vague but generally refers to... the big tech companies
[07:44]	leah	makes sense that microsoft might come up with such a term themselves
[07:44]	leah	it deflects blame from them
[07:44]	schestowitz	Robbers are not "job creators" and "philanthropists" 
[07:44]	leah	instead of complaining about abuses of power by 1 big company, people say "big tech"
[07:45]	schestowitz	old strategy
[07:45]	schestowitz	"scroogled"
[07:45]	schestowitz	New: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-30/google-microsoft-truce-crumbles-amid-feud-over-cloud-ad-tech"
[07:45]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
[07:46]	leah	it's basically newspeak designed to reduce accountability
[07:46]	schestowitz	I could think of many more xamples
[07:47]	schestowitz	so many that I literally FORGOT some while typing 
[07:47]	schestowitz	not that they all matter
[07:47]	schestowitz	pinkwashing is a new one
[07:47]	schestowitz	recent years, maybe past decade
[07:47]	activelow	pinkwashing?
[07:47]	leah	plus nowadays the term "big tech" is used as a dogwhistle by alt-right shits that appropriated the term in their version, it basically means they don't like that they got banned for saying mean spirited and hateful things about specific groups of people on a given platform
[07:48]	schestowitz	activelow: like when gchq claims it cares for gays
[07:48]	leah	(if you hear one of them say "big tech" it's a sign that says to other racists that they are one of them, and then you'll hear them talk about things like mastodon or what have you)
[07:48]	schestowitz	after killing alan turning
[07:48]	leah	like when they say "big tech" and say how bad it is
[07:48]	leah	it's subtle. normal people would not recognize it normal means you're either not one of them, or not educated about the kind of subtle language they use
[07:49]	schestowitz	there are many bad companies for different reasons
[07:49]	schestowitz	in free software we need to focus on s/w aspects
[07:49]	activelow	schestowitz: not that anyone asked, yet I do have an opinion on this, which is quickly summarized. this pink-thing is a *private* matter
[07:50]	activelow	it isn't up to politics, corporations or foundations to hook onto such subjects who decides to intercourse with whom - it is a matter of private life
[07:51]	leah	schestowitz: sanewashing is a thing now
[07:52]	leah	because i coined it just now
[07:52]	schestowitz	not seen that yet
[07:52]	schestowitz	Leroy Sane FTW
[07:52]	leah	it's when a coked up nutjob pretends to have some noble goal or any clue what the fuck he's doing, and takes over a major non-profit
[07:52]	leah	sorry, i'm terrible at jokes
[07:54]	schestowitz	9/11 "truthers"
[07:54]	schestowitz	nowadays the word "truth" is partly loaded
[07:54]	schestowitz	if a site claims it has "the truth"
[07:55]	techrights-news	 NEWS #CommonDreams Though Evidence Is Lacking, US Media Give New Respect to Lab Leak Theory https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/06/29/though-evidence-lacking-us-media-give-new-respect-lab-leak-theory
[07:55]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.commondreams.org | Opinion | Though Evidence Is Lacking, US Media Give New Respect to Lab Leak Theory | Joshua Cho
[07:55]	leah	to be clear, i was making a joke about andrew lee
[07:56]	bagira/fn	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Tech | for those who think the term has no meaning
[07:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Big Tech - Wikipedia
[07:56]	leah	not a very good one either
[07:56]	bagira/fn	FAANG is very much real and very much full of money and ambitions
[07:56]	techrights-news	#fb #monopoly #monopoly https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/28/1027532/facebook-ftc-monopoly-ruling/
[07:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.technologyreview.com | Court rejects FTC complaint that Facebook is a monopoly | MIT Technology Review
[07:56]	XRevan86	leah: The existing term is rationalisation.
[07:57]	XRevan86	When a rationale for doing something is thought out after the fact.
[07:58]	leah	ok
[07:59]	XRevan86	It lacks the implication of crazy though :)
[07:59]	leah	anyone currently abusing cocaine shouldn't run an irc network
[07:59]	leah	and the way andrew behaves is extremely irrational so i'm inclined to believe drug use is involved
[07:59]	leah	there is documented evidence that he has a serious cocaine problem
[07:59]	leah	that alone should disqualify someone from leading an organisation
● Jun 30
[08:00]	leah	just like you wouldn't let a drunk person drive a car
[08:00]	leah	you should have a clear head when taking on responsibility like that
[08:00]	XRevan86	leah: It's possible that this is how he got himself in charge in the first place.
[08:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 27.31   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 6.21 swarm size (avg): 307.38  
[08:01]	XRevan86	with a high thought about how freenode is run that is
[08:01]	leah	people should use drugs if they wish they reap the consequences later, and that's on them
[08:01]	leah	let people fuck up their own lives if they want, so long as they're not hurting others
[08:02]	leah	but you then disqualify yourself from having responsibility over others, if you don't have any over yourself
[08:03]	leah	just my opinion
[08:04]		*lockeanarchist (~dfsdf@a5bsj5vwcvmvi.irc) has joined #techrights
[08:04]	lockeanarchist	hello
[08:06]	CrystalMath	in my opinion, generically speaking, one is free to damage their own property for whatever reason, even if others depend on it - it's their property after all
[08:06]	CrystalMath	hi lockeanarchist
[08:07]	CrystalMath	but i personally believe that the new freenode is very much improved, not damaged
[08:08]	lockeanarchist	what andrew did is completely irrational indeed
[08:09]	CrystalMath	i'm not claiming i understand everything he did, but that doesn't mean i'll jump to the conclusion that it's irrational
[08:09]	CrystalMath	for those things it's more likely that it is rational, but i just don't understand it
[08:11]	lockeanarchist	CrystalMath: What he could do was pretty simple, just lay low and slowly change the policies, let people say that they are leaving whatever
[08:11]	lockeanarchist	he just accelerated the exodus
[08:11]	CrystalMath	hmm, well, suppose you were in his place, and you do that, and then thousands of people complain that they can't speak on many channels because chanops locked it down
[08:12]	CrystalMath	what do you then?
[08:12]	psydruid	is that a good thing or a bad thing? both? neither?
[08:12]	CrystalMath	it's a bad thing - an IRC network is used for talking
[08:12]	CrystalMath	these chanops disabled talking on that network to advertise a different one
[08:12]	psydruid	accelerating the exodus, I mean
[08:13]	CrystalMath	these chanops (for example of #osdev, or #regex) are just garbage people, they are mindless drones of an unfathomably evil agenda
[08:14]	lockeanarchist	yeah, I would be more benevolent, asked people to report these channels
[08:14]	lockeanarchist	would ask
[08:14]	CrystalMath	lockeanarchist: and manually free them?
[08:15]	psydruid	> Leroy Sane FTW
[08:15]	psydruid	Leroy Sane is coming home from Wembley. Or maybe he has already come home and is now in quarantine after the obligatory sanewashing.
[08:15]	lockeanarchist	yeah, you have a point, it's complicated
[08:15]	CrystalMath	they were manually freed in the beginning
[08:16]	CrystalMath	so someone thought to simplify the task and write a script that will go in, detect them, and automatically reopen
[08:16]	CrystalMath	but it's hard to detect a closure of a channel, and differentiate it from a temporary +m
[08:17]	lockeanarchist	I'm pretty confused about what is freenode now
[08:18]	lockeanarchist	it's just a Rizon-esque network now?
[08:18]	CrystalMath	lockeanarchist: also i took a look around, nobody has ever used +m to force people to leave a network before, i found records of old projects moving, let's say from EFNet to some irc.hugmachine.org or something, they didn't destroy the original channel
[08:18]	CrystalMath	these chanops who set +m used *force* because they felt entitled to it, they believed that any means is okay for their unfethomably evil agenda
[08:19]	psydruid	I don't see burning down and rebuilding the network as the worst approach. A gradual approach would have taken a lot longer and kept things lingering for quite a while.
[08:19]	CrystalMath	and it's unfathomably evil because it's way broader than IRC, it's an attack on individual freedom
[08:19]	CrystalMath	and it's an attack on property rights
[08:20]	CrystalMath	the chanops took the resources of the network, but felt entitled to all of the users they gained by being there
[08:20]	psydruid	it was an attack to mortally wound freenode by causing everyone to leave and leaving the network for dead
[08:20]	lockeanarchist	I was seeing people saying that Freenode was now giving a pass for nazifascists
[08:20]	CrystalMath	liberia as a whole is a part of the unfathomably evil agenda, and the one that undoubtedly attacked *first*
[08:20]	lockeanarchist	on twitter
[08:21]	lockeanarchist	these people are pure evil indeed
[08:21]	CrystalMath	lockeanarchist: everybody who isn't a part of the unfathomably evil agenda to them is a "nazifascist"
[08:21]	CrystalMath	the twitter people are pure evil, let's just make that clear
[08:21]	psydruid	because there is a danger lurking by leaving a large community of people on the freenode version of the channel
[08:21]	CrystalMath	the SJWs are pure evil
[08:21]	CrystalMath	freenode is great
[08:21]	CrystalMath	Andrew Lee is great
[08:21]	psydruid	they could fork the original project and start their own community
[08:22]	CrystalMath	psydruid: starting their own community is normal, because there's one on literally every network
[08:22]	psydruid	I think that is something Andrew Lee hinted at
[08:22]	CrystalMath	but they don't have to fork
[08:22]	CrystalMath	i mean literally every network has a #linux, every network has a #slackware, but these SJW idiots wanted to prevent freenode from having these channels, why?
[08:23]	psydruid	CrystalMath, what about leaders of the project who would refuse participation and patches from people who happen to be primarily active on the "wrong" network?
[08:23]	gustaf	who set #linux to +M? Was that even a thing? 
[08:24]	psydruid	yes, evil agenda
[08:24]	CrystalMath	psydruid: then there would be a fork, it would mean SJWs own the project - that project must be forked to death
[08:24]	CrystalMath	psydruid: anyone who rejects a good patch because of the person who wrote it is absolutely horrible
[08:24]	CrystalMath	only meritocracy should be allowed in FOSS
[08:25]	activelow	anyway, this is what vendors do at universities: they sell their digital scopes, CAD software, Matlab, and all sorts of things students become accustomed to for "big tech" business later in their carreer
[08:25]	psydruid	free software should naturally embrace decentralisation 
[08:25]	psydruid	also for communications
[08:25]	CrystalMath	psydruid: it can only do so while embracing meritocracy
[08:25]	CrystalMath	and rejecting all SJW ideas
[08:26]	CrystalMath	because for as long as they have SJW ideas, they will not focus on the code
[08:26]	activelow	and for FOSS / fsf / gnu etc. to strengthen their position this is where they should be aiming at: not politics, not corporations, it is Universities and students following particular schedules of engineering and science
[08:26]	CrystalMath	they'll be more concerned with things that they shouldn't be concerned with, and thus cause damage to the project
[08:27]	CrystalMath	activelow: similar case there, i tried many networks, there's an #fsf on all of them, but only one mentioned liberia in the topic
[08:27]	gustaf	activelow: at least in Sweden, industry is *heavily* involved in technical education at the university level 
[08:27]	activelow	which is the problem gustaf, at least from what i remember with the industry involved
[08:27]	CrystalMath	gustaf: i'm not sure if i remember correctly but ##linux was open until the new ircd, then the original chanops left
[08:27]	CrystalMath	and it has new ones now
[08:27]	gustaf	and hte best universities are public so are naturally required to follow national law re: the rights of women and minorities 
[08:28]	psydruid	activelow, I'm very much aware of this, I see proprietary software and OSPS creeping into curricula when students would be much better off with actually hackable software
[08:28]	activelow	not creeping into, they are dominating
[08:28]	CrystalMath	gustaf: do they also follow that "public" approach when it comes to course materials?
[08:29]	gustaf	I believe specific "named" projects absolutely have the right to decide what network their official IRC channels should be hosted on 
[08:29]	CrystalMath	gustaf: they don't have the right to block out the same channel on other networks
[08:29]	CrystalMath	and they didn't block out their channel on ALL the other networks, just ONE that they had an agenda against
[08:29]	gustaf	they do if they're ops... 
[08:29]	psydruid	and people have the right to fork them
[08:30]	CrystalMath	gustaf: okay then when you start an IRC network i will go through every letter combination and register it all, then set everything +m
[08:30]	CrystalMath	you can't stop me because you believe this is okay
[08:30]	CrystalMath	gustaf: besides, even liberians disagree with you, they took my channel on liberia because i forwarded to freenode :P
[08:31]	gustaf	Lee could have reached out to the biggest projects, explained that Freenode was the better option, addressed the very real concerns re: custody of nickserv accounts etc
[08:31]	CrystalMath	your philosophy boils down to "DDoS is okay" because when many chanops in a collective decision to wreck a network deside to deny its users the network's service... that's called a distributed denial of service
[08:32]	gustaf	instead the channels were confiscated 
[08:32]	CrystalMath	gustaf: no i strongly disagree, there really should be that channel on 300+ networks
[08:32]	CrystalMath	and the community *SHOULD* be split, because not everyone wants to agree with one particular oligarchy anywhere
[08:32]	psydruid	I agree
[08:32]	CrystalMath	every IRC channel is an oligarchy, even this one
[08:33]	psydruid	there should be thousands or millions of freenodes
[08:33]	gustaf	well that's Pissnet
[08:33]	psydruid	billions even if everyone can run their own server
[08:33]	CrystalMath	psydruid: IRC doesn't really have that many users :P
[08:33]	psydruid	Long live Pissnet
[08:34]	CrystalMath	so you'd need a network with less than 1 user :P
[08:34]	psydruid	CrystalMath, make IRC great again :)
[08:34]		*koo7 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has joined #techrights
[08:34]	psydruid	greater than it has ever been before
[08:35]	CrystalMath	well i mean freenode is doing its very best
[08:35]	CrystalMath	freenode has fixed a lot of things that were so wrong with it in the past
[08:35]	CrystalMath	like the lack of free speech
[08:35]	CrystalMath	the centralization
[08:35]	activelow	maybe just for fun i register a nick on libera now, and check if anything has changed since year 2017. doubt it has.
[08:35]	CrystalMath	the really awful SJW toxic people
[08:36]	CrystalMath	those are all gone, and freenode is better without them
[08:36]	CrystalMath	it's so unfortunate that FOSS is so SJW-infested
[08:36]	psydruid	I see Libera as a place for legacy channels and communities with their politics and all, a real continuation of old Freenode
[08:37]	psydruid	I don't think anyone believes Libera will grow larger than old Freenode
[08:38]	CrystalMath	well i think the problem is still in FOSS, because it hasn't been fixed there
[08:38]	CrystalMath	and that is that the people in FOSS right now have completely lost their way
[08:38]	CrystalMath	it used to be that the idea is "let's take away the power of people to control how others use their computers"
[08:38]	psydruid	I don't think there is a problem with FOSS per se
[08:39]	CrystalMath	now the idea is "let's take the power of rich people to control how others user their computers, and give it to us"
[08:39]	CrystalMath	which is just horrible
[08:39]	psydruid	I think there is a problem with current projects popular and visible in FOSS
[08:39]	psydruid	but the idea of free software is still very much alive
[08:39]	psydruid	we should just go back to the roots
[08:39]	CrystalMath	instead of freedom and libertarianism, today's FOSS wants a dictatorship of the proletariat
[08:40]	CrystalMath	Coraline Ada Ehmke is at the forefront of that
[08:40]	CrystalMath	she literally all but said it
[08:40]	CrystalMath	this "ethical source" crap is more evil than proprietary software
[08:40]	CrystalMath	because at least with the proprietary software, companies had something to worry about
[08:40]	CrystalMath	SJWs are absolutely convinced they have a moral high ground
[08:41]	CrystalMath	companies had money to worry about at least, if they got too evil, they'd lose customers
[08:41]	psydruid	that's why I've said Microsoft and IBM can have GNU/Linux and run it into the ground the way they've been doing over the past decade or more
[08:41]	CrystalMath	nothing stops the SJWs from being evil, they believe they are right in everything they do, and they believe each other as well
[08:42]	CrystalMath	i mean those liberian staffers just said some crap without evidence and all those SJWs believed it immediately, blindly
[08:42]	CrystalMath	it's a religion
[08:42]	psydruid	and involve those people who can't contribute anything but side issues and zero code
[08:43]	psydruid	actually free software doesn't need them to thrive
[08:43]	CrystalMath	it really doesn't, the roots of free software (and open source) are a libertarian idea
[08:43]	CrystalMath	we can live without the SJWs easily
[08:43]	CrystalMath	we just need to make sure that project leaders, and those we give authority, are not SJWs
[08:47]	CrystalMath	but like, it's generally important that whoever has any authority in a FOSS project will be truly all-inclusive and absolutely 100% meritocratic
[08:47]	CrystalMath	when i say all-inclusive i mean all the usual stuff + inclusive of people with different politics
[08:48]	lockeanarchist	It's cool that SJWism is a ideology of hate. They hate everyone that don't agree with them.
[08:48]	lockeanarchist	and hate is powerful
[08:51]	leah	CrystalMath: am i part of this evil agenda too?
[08:51]	CrystalMath	leah: i don't think so
[08:53]	leah	CrystalMath: i dislike andrew lee, dislike freenode (based on the fact that i observed it to now be in the hands of totally incompetent people, who wasted weeks of my time and caused endless headache for countless other projects, with its founder apparently talking on a racist talkshow, repeating alt-right conspiracy theories like pizzagate, etc - i'm not part of the cancel
[08:53]	leah	crowd, and was originally sympathetic to lee, until he started acting like a total twit), and i use twitter regularly
[08:53]	leah	but i don't think i'm part of an "unfathomably evil agenda"
[08:53]	CrystalMath	ah, right, i didn't mean that everyone with a twitter account is evil
[08:53]	leah	i also recognize that the current libera staff started the whole mess, by leaving freenode and running a smear campaign against it, and i recognize how abusive they can be. i've seen it
[08:53]	CrystalMath	i mean, freenode staff has a twitter account :P
[08:54]	leah	libera staff is absolute shit collectively. some of them are nice
[08:54]	CrystalMath	i was thinking "twitter people" like Sarah Mei
[08:54]	leah	no idea who that is
[08:54]	CrystalMath	she was tweeting everywhere about how horrible RMS is
[08:54]	leah	CrystalMath:  initially freenode was on the moral highground. andrew lee had done nothing wrong except be in charge, and his staff mutinied, and suddenly he had to think fast. it's what he and the new freenode staff did after that that that was even worse than anything libera did
[08:55]	leah	libera probably had no idea what sort of person lee would turn out to be, in the weeks that followed. they may have even thought he was an ok bloke
[08:55]	CrystalMath	which part to you mean? the l0de radio hour?
[08:55]	leah	they had no real way of knowing. so they simply wanted power, and couldn't have it on freenode, so couped it and made their own network. and their behaviour was very shady, making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims
[08:56]	leah	they even resorted to racism themselves, calling attention to the fact that lee has korean heritage (but is an american citizen)
[08:56]	CrystalMath	i mean, i think reopening channels that are closed was a good thing
[08:56]	leah	"crown prince of korea" give me a break
[08:56]	leah	yeah i don't care about the channel hijackings. that's not unethical, just stupid (politically, under the current circumstances)
[08:56]	lockeanarchist	tbh, CrystalMath 
[08:56]	CrystalMath	and the new ircd, while personally it was painful for me to watch freenode classic die, simply because i've grown so used to that software, was not such a bad idea maybe
[08:56]	leah	freenode is a basket case now
[08:56]	lockeanarchist	what's the meaning of freenode today?
[08:57]	lockeanarchist	I'm confused
[08:57]	leah	libera started out being the evil ones, but in the weeks that followed, i decided that freenode was worse
[08:57]	CrystalMath	leah: you were still with freenode after the ircd change, so it must be the LRH interview that changed your mind
[08:57]	leah	CrystalMath: but i don't think i'm part on an "unfathomably evil agenda" as you put it
[08:57]	CrystalMath	and i think it did
[08:57]	leah	CrystalMath: yes, it's that interview that changed my mind
[08:57]	leah	the ircd reset was pointless, but not a huge dealbreaker
[08:58]	lockeanarchist	LRH interciew?
[08:58]	lockeanarchist	I'm not american or anglo, what is this?
[08:58]	leah	lee is a racist asshole and allows open racism in his network
[08:58]	leah	and imo that's bad
[08:58]	CrystalMath	lockeanarchist: Andrew Lee showed up at an interview on L0de Radio Hour, a show i didn't really know exists until recently, but apparently it's been a thing for a long time
[08:58]	leah	you can cite free speech, but the kind of speech allowed can also lead to real harm
[08:59]	l0de/fn	Thanks for tuning in, CrystalMath
● Jun 30
[09:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 26.51   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 5.60 swarm size (avg): 307.48  
[09:00]	CrystalMath	oh hi l0de, yeah that was my first episode indeed
[09:01]	CrystalMath	i had to listen to it audio-only because of internet problems that day
[09:01]	lockeanarchist	Never heard of l0de before.
[09:01]	l0de/fn	ya, generally just a fun late night call in show for irc users
[09:01]	CrystalMath	(i used youtube-dl streaming into standard output, and played with mplayer, and i had to switch to format 93 which is audio-only)
[09:02]	leah	CrystalMath: i think of freenode and libera like telephone operators
[09:02]	l0de/fn	only about 100 people listen, it's intentionally kept small
[09:02]	CrystalMath	my internet that day was like 70 KB/s
[09:02]	CrystalMath	at peak moments
[09:02]	leah	they need to be neutral and allow autonomy to users in their spaces, in channels they set up
[09:03]	leah	the only exception should be disallowing harmful behaviour. e.g. abuse, advocating for real life harm, etc
[09:03]	l0de/fn	I used to post a mp3 with each show, but only about 2 people were using it
[09:03]	leah	i think libera is perfectly reasonable in this regard. and on libera if you shut down your channel, they don't take it over. staff will let your channel remain shut down, just as they did on old freenode.
[09:03]	l0de/fn	on EFnet they don't even do that
[09:03]	CrystalMath	leah: oh but they do
[09:03]	CrystalMath	leah: they took over at least mine and ptx0's
[09:03]	leah	i've had instance myself in the past where i wanted to shut down a channel, and lock everyone out of it. in my opinion, i as channel operator should have that right
[09:04]	CrystalMath	leah: i think it's a denial of service if it's done en masse
[09:04]	CrystalMath	and if done by many people, it's a distributed denial of service
[09:04]	psydruid	I think you have that right on your own server
[09:04]	CrystalMath	well on your own server you can just do /die
[09:04]	CrystalMath	Andrew Lee did it to freenode classic :P
[09:05]	leah	i think the chan takeovers will stop though that was jsut a panic response during the initial chaos
[09:05]	CrystalMath	leah: yeah it was a problem because it was done en masse
[09:05]	leah	and although i think chanops should have that autonomy i think if a network doesn't agree and does what freenode now does, well that's up to the network operators, but i think it's shortsighted
[09:05]	CrystalMath	i mean, because people were locking so many, that it was impossible to manually handle it
[09:05]	leah	you let people have their own say how they run their channels, and don't interfere they're more likel y to come back
[09:06]	leah	you start interfering heavy handed like they have, and more people leave
[09:06]	CrystalMath	leah: i've never seen a channel locked down to move to another network before, though
[09:06]	CrystalMath	i've seen a locked down to redirect to another channel
[09:06]	CrystalMath	on the same network
[09:06]	CrystalMath	but to another network? never... and i've seen projects that moved
[09:06]	leah	totally agree with you about coraline and "ethical source" though. those are pure evil
[09:06]	CrystalMath	from EFNet to hugmachine, from EFNet to Hackint, ... i've seen many examples, and they immediately let the old channel live on as unofficial
[09:06]	leah	stick with GNU GPL
[09:07]	psydruid	this was a case of "Carthago delenda est"
[09:07]	lockeanarchist	Ethical source is just proprietary software
[09:07]	lockeanarchist	you can't control who can use your software
[09:08]	CrystalMath	lockeanarchist: but proprietary software with a moral superiority complex, that's why it's worse
[09:08]	lockeanarchist	I think "ethical source" is worse than fake licenses like SSPL
[09:09]	CrystalMath	i mean, proprietary software writers can be convinced otherwise, ethical source people can't
[09:09]	CrystalMath	they're religious
[09:09]	leah	CrystalMath: btw to be clear, i agree that shutting down a channel is stupid, when moving
[09:09]	leah	i'm leaving all my channels open on freenode
[09:09]	leah	but strongly encouraging people join libera
[09:09]	CrystalMath	right, i understand
[09:10]	CrystalMath	at the end of the day nobody can stop you from leaving the newly unofficial channel
[09:10]	leah	i feel somewhat guilty for the whole liberia thing. i meant it innocently, because i literally just misread it as that at first, and thought it was daft
[09:10]	leah	well maybe other people did the same and spread it
[09:10]	leah	but i hope i didn't influence people on calling it that
[09:10]	lockeanarchist	For example, #sway and many other channels just did +m and spammed the channel
[09:10]	lockeanarchist	JOIN LIBERA
[09:11]	lockeanarchist	this is not nice
[09:11]	leah	i've seen some racist comments in #freenode on fn, calling libera liberia like, in the context of racist rhetoric
[09:11]	leah	right after saying something about blm or something
[09:11]	leah	libera is actually latin for "free"
[09:11]	leah	it means literally: "free"
[09:11]	leah	(as in freedom)
[09:11]	CrystalMath	tbh i shuoldn't call it liberia.... to compare libera.crap to a country is an insult to that country
[09:12]	CrystalMath	i just use it to not say libera
[09:12]	leah	well liberia the country is actually a nice place, so i hear
[09:12]	CrystalMath	i've heard of it, it seems okay
[09:13]	leah	i mean they get by
[09:13]	leah	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia
[09:13]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Liberia - Wikipedia
[09:13]	leah	i would advise against calling irc.libera.chat "liberia"
[09:13]	CrystalMath	yeah i know it, it borders Mali
[09:13]	leah	it makes you look like a racist twat
[09:13]	leah	and i know you aren't racist, CrystalMath 
[09:14]	CrystalMath	at first i called it irc.liberal.crap
[09:14]	leah	totally up to you though
[09:14]	CrystalMath	or libera.crap
[09:14]	leah	i actually think libera is ok, personally
[09:14]	CrystalMath	MinceR calls it illibera
[09:14]	leah	some of the admins suck, but i can say the same thing about freenode too
[09:15]	leah	and their rules are reasonable. i don't really have a problem with them
[09:15]	CrystalMath	i've also been thinking about insultling things i can backronym OFTC to
[09:15]	leah	but i don't drink their kool aid either. i'm not one of those mindless drones that flocked to it immediately. you'll recall that i initially was very critical of them :P
[09:15]	CrystalMath	that is correct, but i already knew you're not one of those people
[09:16]	leah	think for yourselves, don't be sheep
[09:16]	CrystalMath	i didn't expect you to move there at all really
[09:16]	leah	it's mostly for expediency
[09:16]	CrystalMath	i don't really take LRH too seriously (sorry l0de :P)
[09:16]	leah	i wanted to have less work to do, so i scrapped my plan to self-host ircd for now, and decided to stick it to freenode. freenode doesn't deserve respect or love right now
[09:16]	CrystalMath	at first i wasn't even sure if that's really Andrew Lee
[09:16]	leah	not until they make some changes
[09:17]	CrystalMath	i thought it could be like, voice impersonators just doing some joke
[09:17]	CrystalMath	but i was told by trusted people who are in the know that it is indeed real
[09:17]	leah	my rationale is basically that old freenode worked ok for me, the staff never gave me any trouble
[09:18]	leah	except for that thing with jess that one time, but technically she was just enforcing network policy
[09:18]	activelow	old freenode wasn't ok for me, new one isn't either, and same applies to libera
[09:18]	leah	thing is freedom is kinda absolute but there's also pragmatism
[09:18]	leah	freedom to be a dick is a thing, but there are also consequences for that
[09:18]	CrystalMath	it's not at all a fair comparison, but nazi guards were also "just enforcing policy"
[09:18]	leah	and i find it strange, CrystalMath 
[09:19]	leah	CrystalMath:  you say that the owner of a property can do whatever they like, and on that basis you support lee,
[09:19]	CrystalMath	well i said that in general
[09:19]	leah	CrystalMath: yet you criticize libera staff for taking control of one of your channels there
[09:19]	leah	so which is it?
[09:19]	leah	not trying to be a dick but you seem to be mentally applying different standards to both sides
[09:19]	CrystalMath	no, actually, i told them specifically that i've decided that it's okay
[09:19]	CrystalMath	but then it must also be okay for freenode to do the same
[09:20]	CrystalMath	and i told this to rasengan
[09:20]	CrystalMath	here on #techrights
[09:20]	leah	is he here in this channel?
[09:20]	CrystalMath	maybe on the freenode side? but he left at one point
[09:20]	leah	well rasengan is a liability
[09:21]	leah	i tolerated everything until the l0de interview
[09:21]	leah	but come on. the dude's a total basket case
[09:21]	leah	never trust a junkie
[09:21]	leah	that's my advice
[09:21]	leah	someone who isn't in control of themselves and their actions should not be taken seriously, until they sort themselves out and get sober
[09:21]	leah	spoken from experience
[09:22]	leah	in this case "clean" is the correct term to use, rather than "sober"
[09:22]	CrystalMath	well, that's your bias, and you have experience that tells you that, yeah; but i personally don't see anything wrong with Andrew Lee so far
[09:22]	leah	i'm telling you, he's bad news
[09:23]		*psydruid prefers to see an IRC world with each project having its own irc.$softwareproject.tld
[09:23]	leah	now, if he stops using drugs, and maybe reforms, stops tolerating alt-right rhetoric in #freenode, and maybe learns to trust his staff (rather than micromanage them and piss everyone off)... basically be better at his job?
[09:24]	leah	well if he improves, reforms and basically be's more reasonable, i migt consider supporting freenode again. i'm sure others would too
[09:24]	CrystalMath	well i wouldn't say that he micromanages
[09:24]	leah	people can change
[09:24]	lockeanarchist	psydruid: The problem is creating a new account everytime and configuring it in znc everytime
[09:24]	leah	CrystalMath: i have about 80 peolpe in #libreboot on libera
[09:24]	activelow	as a service operate Mr. Lee couldn't simply do what he wanted, same applies to libera staff
[09:25]	leah	and about 5 on freenode (yes, people have been leaving in droves, ever since i abandoned my neutrality - that's why channel hijackings are just dumb, rather than unethicl. people have the choice to leave or stay lol)
[09:25]	leah	CrystalMath: 80 people
[09:25]	leah	before the libera/freenode split, i had about 150-160 average
[09:25]	CrystalMath	oh yeah, it was big, i forgot
[09:25]	leah	and the global average on old freenode was about 90k connected users
[09:25]	CrystalMath	yeah i don't think even the sum of freenode and libera matches that
[09:25]	lockeanarchist	the sad thing is that some people just dropped irc for good
[09:25]	leah	lee didn't drain the swamp
[09:26]	lockeanarchist	neither freenode or libera
[09:26]	leah	he stormed the palace and lit it on fire
[09:26]	leah	there was nothing wrong at all with old freenode, not in any way that mattered
[09:27]	CrystalMath	well if you must know, back in april i was thinking of leaving
[09:27]	leah	my only regret is that i initially tried to appease the freenode side. i even joined you in taking #fsf when they left for libera. my rationale at the time was that it would help protect the fsf from trolls. but we were complicit
[09:27]	leah	and i've since apologized publicly to the fsf, via my twitter page
[09:27]	CrystalMath	because... the old freenode staff k-lined so many of my friends
[09:27]	CrystalMath	ousted a nice retrocomputing channel
[09:28]	CrystalMath	which had to leave for LunarIRC
[09:28]	CrystalMath	i told you about that i think
[09:28]	leah	yes
[09:28]	leah	i still don't fully understand the details of that
[09:28]	CrystalMath	basically Fuchs and jess joined the channel and started harassing people
[09:29]	leah	though at th time it did sound like an abuse of power
[09:29]	l0de/fn	CrystalMath it's not meant to be taken seriously, it's a comedy program
[09:29]	leah	oh shit, l0de's here
[09:29]	leah	lol
[09:29]	psydruid	they were really nice operators for doing that
[09:29]	l0de/fn	yes hello
[09:29]	CrystalMath	l0de: well, that makes sense then :)
[09:30]	l0de/fn	I had to come to issue some corrections on the article
[09:30]	CrystalMath	a lot of people at techrights seemed to take it very seriously, notably schestowitz
[09:31]	l0de/fn	I find it highly unscrupulous that he did not clearly mention that it is a satirical comedy program
[09:31]	leah	racism is racism no matter how you spin it lol
[09:31]	l0de/fn	or to cast me as a racist when I have been an avowed pro-black for the whole 20+ year run of my show
[09:31]	l0de/fn	c'est la vie
[09:32]		*techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
[09:32]	l0de/fn	But it is an hourlong conversation that everyone is tired of
[09:33]	leah	you're entitled to your views, but not everyone has to like them
[09:33]	l0de/fn	But in terms of journalism, it's clear this is just a surface-level hot take by someone with no real understanding of the cultures and individuals involved
[09:34]	l0de/fn	I sat this not to insult, but in the hopes that subsequent articles will receive more critical thinking and research
[09:35]	CrystalMath	l0de/fn: tbh i was quite unfamiliar with the culture as well, but i get it now
[09:35]	l0de/fn	As the piece reads like a youtube reaction video with little genuine context or new information provided
[09:35]	leah	l0de you're free to say what you like but idk i checked out your video with andrew lee
[09:36]	leah	l0de: it was pretty blatant. kinda an eye opener actually
[09:37]	l0de/fn	It is a fascinating collection of people, and IRC has this weird dynamic where you can have people who are real, legitimate white supremacists engaged in a very productive conversation with antifa members because there's a degree of compartmentalization involved in being in a text-only medium
[09:37]	activelow	maybe the problem is this: the expectations when joining a network to talk to academics and then being confronted with gnaa
[09:37]	leah	kinda scary too, because it was very high-level. it wasn't, like, the low-grade bigotry you see on /g/
[09:37]	l0de/fn	what are you even talking about leah
[09:38]	l0de/fn	we didn't even talk about race on the show you saw
[09:38]	l0de/fn	Activelow hasn't that always been a component of any media though
[09:38]	l0de/fn	there are always some jesters
[09:38]	leah	l0de don't worry, i'm just surprised you're here in this channel
[09:38]	l0de/fn	Imagine tuning in to ABC news and max headroom pops up
[09:38]	l0de/fn	or turning the dial and it's some punk rock pirate radio
[09:39]	leah	l0de so what's that shit about you being the number one negro or something. that's how you introduced yourself in the opening of the interview with lee
[09:39]	CrystalMath/fn	l0de: tbh i think schestowitz, and myself, originally got the link only being told there's an interview
[09:39]	l0de/fn	so you made an aspersion, but you couldn't back it up, that's definitely what I'd call the "Soft-bullying" style of tokenizing problematic people as racist\nazi\whatever
[09:40]	CrystalMath/fn	we kinda assumed it was a serious interview
[09:40]	l0de/fn	Leah, can you not see the inherrent joke there
[09:40]	leah	to be clear, i'm not attacking you. i'm just sad
[09:40]	leah	i found the interview depressing
[09:40]	l0de/fn	I see CrystalMath
[09:40]	l0de/fn	That makes a lot of sense
[09:40]	leah	plus i saw the irc chat in the background in the interview and i'm like
[09:41]	leah	dude
[09:41]	leah	come on
[09:41]	l0de/fn	Were you not aware lee was playing a role leah
[09:41]	l0de/fn	and that I was playing a role
[09:41]	l0de/fn	neither of us was speaking in earnest
[09:41]	leah	l0de yeah i get that you too were also pissing about
[09:41]	l0de/fn	it was two gimmicks dueling back and forth
[09:41]	l0de/fn	that's what chat on EFnet looks like
[09:41]		*koo7 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[09:41]	lockeanarchist	the pizzagate thing was a joke?
[09:41]	l0de/fn	it's a vibrant culture
[09:41]	leah	i prefer boring, regular conversations
[09:41]	l0de/fn	The point of the whole satire too is that people took freenode too seriously
[09:42]	l0de/fn	lockeanarchist: yes, did you think there really was a galactic federation
[09:42]	leah	well freenode was a serious, professionally run network until recently
[09:42]	l0de/fn	leah- Anything marked as an AMA on my channel is a legitimate interview
[09:42]	l0de/fn	anything marked as a LRH is not
[09:42]	leah	ok
[09:43]		*alextee has quit (connection closed)
[09:43]	leah	i mean i jsut got a really really bad vibe from your video l0de
[09:43]	l0de/fn	anyhow, I need to get back to writing, but there's often more beneath the surface of people if you don't just stick a label on them and dismiss them
[09:43]	l0de/fn	good luck
[09:43]	leah	silly me taking things seriously
[09:44]	leah	so l0de can you explain the joke?
[09:45]	l0de/fn	I and that show are from a completely different worldview than yours
[09:45]	lockeanarchist/fn	i stopped when lee said he was a cartel leader wtv, l0de. can't be serious indeed
[09:45]	l0de/fn	Which joke
[09:45]	CrystalMath/fn	lockeanarchist: even before that i wondered if it's voice impersonators or something
[09:45]	leah	oh, right well you said basically the whole thing is satire
[09:46]	leah	that implies it's a joke
[09:46]	CrystalMath/fn	but Lee was there
[09:46]	l0de/fn	lockeanarchist: absolutely, but you can still get some insights into his process
[09:46]	l0de/fn	gleaned through the veil of the bullshit
[09:46]	leah	what's the point of the joke?
[09:46]	CrystalMath/fn	l0de: i mean, that was Andrew Lee, right?
[09:46]	l0de/fn	and to me the things you see through a facade are more revealing because they're naked
[09:46]	l0de/fn	CrystalMath: it was actually lil pump and andrew lee
[09:46]	CrystalMath/fn	oh, the real Lil Pump too
[09:46]	l0de/fn	leah it may be one of those things where if you don't understand immediately, you never will
[09:47]	l0de/fn	because there's an underlying set of assumptions that people who like it arrive with
[09:47]	CrystalMath/fn	i've been around the internet enough to sort of get it but not enough to get it immediately
[09:47]	leah	l0de you and i do come from different headspaces i think
[09:47]	l0de/fn	It's s very niche thing for a v specific audience of hardcore irc nerds
[09:47]	l0de/fn	Ya, and both spaces are valid
[09:48]	l0de/fn	But ne'er the twain shall meet
[09:48]	leah	l0de you know when you walk into an office full of cubicles with programmers hard at work?
[09:48]	leah	but over time a culture develops and people sort of relax a bit and dial down the professionalism. but are still professional
[09:48]	leah	well that's how i treat irc. i treat it like a workplace. i get things done on irc
[09:49]	leah	though i do also understand the need to lay back and relax
[09:49]	CrystalMath/fn	right, the old freenode was indeed very different from the other IRCs
[09:49]	leah	l0de i did find some very specific statements offensive though, from both yourself and andrew
[09:49]	leah	e.g. the pizzagate thing
[09:49]	l0de/fn	Think of us more as welders \ roofers \ plumbers
[09:50]	l0de/fn	Where there is no expectation of professionalism and outright scorn for it
[09:50]	l0de/fn	and we only respect ability and perspective won through suffering
[09:50]	leah	plus, and i know lee said this, not you, in that interview, but the whole "trump best president ever" thing... the dude literally instigated a violent uprising to attempt a coup when he didn't get his own way at the election
[09:50]	leah	just sayin'
[09:50]	l0de/fn	you probably found them offensive because you arrived thinking this was serious
[09:50]	l0de/fn	but it wasn't
[09:51]	CrystalMath/fn	well tbh i honestly disagree that Trump instigated a violent uprising
[09:51]	l0de/fn	my own views are very hard-left
[09:51]	leah	l0de even if interpreted as satire, i'm still not comfortable. but let's leave it at that
[09:51]	leah	l0de the refrain "can't you take a joke?" is a common thing among those who wish to say fucked up things and get away with it
[09:51]	l0de/fn	OK, so in that statement you reveal you have a monocular political view
[09:51]	techrights-news	Why Some Biologists and Ecologists Think Social Media is a Risk to Humanity https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=21/06/28/0559226
[09:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-soylentnews.org | Why Some Biologists and Ecologists Think Social Media is a Risk to Humanity - SoylentNews
[09:52]	techrights-news	#sweden https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2021/06/meaning-resignation-swedish-prime-minister-stefan-l-fven
[09:52]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.newstatesman.com | The meaning of the resignation of Swedish prime minister Stefan Lfven
[09:52]	l0de/fn	this is why it's disconcerting for you, because it's a grab bag of different takes and many don't align with that view
[09:54]	l0de/fn	I'm very leery of ascribing blame to people for the actions of others
[09:54]	CrystalMath/fn	exactly
[09:54]	l0de/fn	which can apply to both sides, many legitimate protests are sidelined by agent provocateurs
[09:56]	CrystalMath/fn	l0de: hmm, i have one question... the stuff you said about the old freenode restricting speech, was that a joke too? do you think it was fine before?
[09:56]		*alextee (~alextee@p5ururacf4pq4.irc) has joined #techrights
[09:58]	lockeanarchist/fn	I remember when I was young, in 2008, that my friends and I were orphans of a IRC network. We entered freenode and did a ##channel that was totally off-topic and not related with free software or a project
[09:58]	l0de/fn	No, it was a much more restrictive environment than I think is healthy, and it lead to a lot of circlejerk\enforced opinion\repressive authority structure situations. You won't see a bunch of trolls actively working on a network unless there are some legitimate grievances there. However, my view is considerably biased
[09:58]	techrights-news	"A lot of blind and partially-sighted people use the Fediverse through screen readers, apps that read on-screen text aloud." https://mstdn.social/@feditips/106483711862722677
[09:58]	lockeanarchist/fn	some operator enterd the channel and kicked us out
[09:58]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mstdn.social | FediTips: "A lot of blind and partially-sighted people use t" - Mastodon 
[09:58]	lockeanarchist/fn	lol
[09:58]	l0de/fn	I would say that they fell more on the "Way too uptight and occasionally abuses power" axis than legitimate repression like you'd see on a state-run forum or something
[09:59]	techrights-news	#EU directive on copyright #article17 #uploadfilters #SaveYourInternet https://chaos.social/@echo_pbreyer/106493930267226835
[09:59]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Patrick Breyer: "At 14:45 we will discuss the implementation of th" - chaos.social
[09:59]	l0de/fn	exactly lockeanarchist, I've seen hundreds of things lik ethat
[09:59]	l0de/fn	and when you start locking horns with staff and applying pressure, you can find out who they really are
[09:59]	techrights-news	 #IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 http://techrights.org/2021/06/30/irc-log-290621/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/30/irc-log-290621/
[09:59]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 | Techrights
[09:59]	lockeanarchist/fn	it was a ## channel
● Jun 30
[10:00]	CrystalMath/fn	l0de: okay, and i fully agree with that assessment
[10:00]	techrights-news	#PopOS 21.04 Unleashed with COSMIC Desktop. This is Whats New. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152848 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[10:00]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop OS 21.04 Unleashed with COSMIC Desktop. This is What's New. | Tux Machines
[10:00]	CrystalMath/fn	well said
[10:01]	lockeanarchist/fn	but I'm seeing that they are pretty lax on libera now
[10:01]	CrystalMath/fn	lockeanarchist: most of my friends got k-lined from there already
[10:01]	CrystalMath/fn	one jokingly joined with the nickname CatSoc
[10:01]	lockeanarchist/fn	why they k-line your frenz?
[10:01]	CrystalMath/fn	k-lined for a week
[10:02]	lockeanarchist/fn	CatSoc hahaha
[10:02]	lockeanarchist/fn	but, for example
[10:02]	CrystalMath/fn	the other complained on #ffmpeg about them not supporting 32-bit versions
[10:02]	lockeanarchist/fn	#ibmthinkpad on libera
[10:02]	l0de/fn	lockeanarchist: they were initially laying low but about 4-5 days in they started locking down social channels in ## namespaces, taking channels, being heavy-handed
[10:02]	lockeanarchist/fn	is just a /b/ channel
[10:02]	lockeanarchist/fn	*/g/
[10:02]	CrystalMath/fn	l0de: tbh i think they were heavy handed on day 2
[10:02]	l0de/fn	keep in mind my viewpoint will be skewed because I have been warring with these people for decades
[10:02]	CrystalMath/fn	lockeanarchist: they don't have a panopticon, that doesn't mean they're lenient
[10:02]	lockeanarchist/fn	l0de: sad
[10:03]	l0de/fn	and we both know who the other is, so our experiences will not be typical
[10:03]	l0de/fn	I like this whole kind of thing tbqh
[10:03]	l0de/fn	One of the big drivers of interesting social groups is offshoots developing from an existing structure that is too repressive
[10:04]	l0de/fn	I am in many really good channels that began with the people kicked out of another group making their own thing
[10:04]	l0de/fn	Their feelings of rejection cause them to strive to display their best characteristics to the new group, and sometimes they make something really cool
[10:05]		*job has quit (connection closed)
[10:05]		*cyndaquil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[10:09]	davnit/fn	nigger
[10:09]	davnit/fn	sorry wrong channel
[10:10]	lockeanarchist/fn	lol
[10:12]	CrystalMath	well, i'm going to sleep
[10:13]	lockeanarchist	lost my night after weeks sleeping in the right time
[10:13]	lockeanarchist	don't know why
[10:15]	gustaf	CrystalMath: agree 100% that Freenode IRC was different from "regular IRC"
[10:16]	gustaf	but as time passed Freenode became relatively larger 
[10:16]	gustaf	for a lot of now active IRC users, Freenode IRC *is* how IRC should be 
[10:16]	gustaf	and the 180 degree turn to "regular IRC" is disorienting
[10:16]	CrystalMath	i encountered regular IRC but like really for the first time in like.... hmm... can't seem to remember
[10:17]	CrystalMath	i mean my first connection to undernet was in 2006
[10:17]	CrystalMath	but i was a stupid kid then :P
[10:17]	gustaf	I'm with leah, IRC is where stuff gets done
[10:17]	CrystalMath	let me try to remember which was my first non-freenode network
[10:17]	CrystalMath	besides OFTC :P
[10:17]	gustaf	I joined synirc because a channel moved there 
[10:17]	CrystalMath	oh damn i can't remember
[10:18]	CrystalMath	i think i was on rizon since 2019
[10:18]	CrystalMath	but that's not too long ago
[10:18]	CrystalMath	i've only really been on EFNet and IRCNet since, idk, 2020
[10:18]	CrystalMath	and i'm not there all the time
[10:18]	CrystalMath	and i mostly talk to the same people i know from elsewhere
[10:18]	CrystalMath	so i don't really know the culture of EFNet
[10:18]	lockeanarchist	Rizon was my home for years
[10:19]	lockeanarchist	I have irl friends there
[10:19]	CrystalMath	i'm familiar with rizon
[10:19]	CrystalMath	but like that culture isn't weird to me
[10:19]	CrystalMath	i just called it "internet culture"
[10:19]	CrystalMath	it reminds me of imageboards
[10:20]	lockeanarchist	Rizon is older than most imageboards
[10:20]	lockeanarchist	but they embraced rizon
[10:20]	CrystalMath	i'm on LunarIRC since march
[10:20]	CrystalMath	march this year :P
[10:20]		*psydroid_ (~psydroid@cqggrmwgu7gji.irc) has joined #techrights
[10:20]	lockeanarchist	before that was just anime people so there's a link
[10:21]	CrystalMath	i got on EsperNet in like.... 2019?
[10:21]	CrystalMath	2019 was when i truly discovered non-freenode IRC i think
[10:21]	CrystalMath	it was a bit of a culture shock
[10:22]	CrystalMath	so only 2 years, while i have 13 years of freenode
[10:22]	lockeanarchist	Non-freenode IRC I discovered when me and my friends were kicked out of our ## channel haha
[10:22]	lockeanarchist	So we found Rizon
[10:22]	lockeanarchist	but Rizon is very weird indeed
[10:23]		*psydroid_ has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
[10:23]	CrystalMath	weird? i don't think it's weird
[10:23]		*job (~job@bfjdrpzm6v77y.irc) has joined #techrights
[10:24]	CrystalMath	EFNet is a little weird, because of the whole no services thing
[10:24]	gustaf	I mean, Freenode was started because the other networks werent't a good place for stable channels with clear governance
[10:24]		*cyndaquil (~job@user/job) has joined #techrights
[10:24]	CrystalMath	but hey, me and some friends are testing that out, seeing if we can actually keep a channel, and it's working so far
[10:25]	CrystalMath	gustaf: i really don't know what beef lilo had with DALnet to leave
[10:25]	gustaf	anyway Lee + friends seem to believe that Freenode "suppressed" IRC, but in truth Freenode was the only remaining bastion of IRC
[10:25]	gustaf	only nerds and FLOSS groups still use IRC
[10:25]	CrystalMath	i think maybe he just wanted a separate network for FOSS, which tbh isn't that great of an idea IMO
[10:26]	gustaf	I think for Lee, "FOSS" is just an empty signifiey
[10:26]	CrystalMath	many FOSS projects are hosted by classical networks
[10:26]	CrystalMath	there are some on EsperNet, tons on EFNet, even Undernet
[10:26]	gustaf	anyway, good talk, IRC at its best (I mean it)
[10:26]	CrystalMath	:)
[10:26]	gustaf	but now I must earn my keep 
[10:26]	CrystalMath	i really need to sleep now
[10:26]	CrystalMath	it's almost noon
[10:27]	CrystalMath	i haven't slept at all
[10:27]	lockeanarchist	are you on europe?
[10:27]	CrystalMath	yes
[10:27]	lockeanarchist	oh
[10:27]		*psydroid_ (~psydroid@cqggrmwgu7gji.irc) has joined #techrights
[10:27]	lockeanarchist	pretty late then
[10:27]	CrystalMath	definitely i mean i don't know what to do even
[10:27]	CrystalMath	i'm gonna sleep at least a little bit, it helps a lot
[10:27]	CrystalMath	see you
[10:27]		*swimmer83 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[10:28]	lockeanarchist	bye
[10:28]		*CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[10:33]	leah	sorry, i was afk
[10:33]	leah	someone is pinging me, lemme check
[10:33]		*koo7 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has joined #techrights
[10:34]	leah	"monocular political view"
[10:34]	leah	l0de says i have this. lemme think what that means
[10:35]	leah	well l0de my politics isn't really relevant to anything but basically look at that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
[10:35]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Horseshoe theory - Wikipedia
[10:35]	leah	someone in fact showed this to me today. and it basically describes my view of the world. i'm pretty laid back :P
[10:40]		*psydroid_ has quit (connection closed)
[10:40]	techrights-news	Saudi Telecom Co Gets Approval for Planned IPO of Unit https://www.usnews.com/news/technology/articles/2021-06-29/saudi-telecom-co-gets-approval-for-planned-ipo-of-unit
[10:41]	techrights-news	"The #ACLU used to stand for that sort of thing, too: Free speech." http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2021/06/the-aclu-lost-i.html
[10:41]	leah	hm
[10:42]	techrights-news	As if this will solve #racism (but I support this removal harms nobody) https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/house-vote-remove-confederate-statues-capitol-n1272581
[10:42]	leah	gustaf: yeah +1 to what you said about clear governance thing
[10:42]		*TechrightsBot-tr has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
[10:42]		*TechrightsBot-tr (~TR@ju4kayhrhsm6a.irc) has joined #techrights
[10:42]	TechrightsBot-tr	Hello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.77
[10:42]	leah	i just want an irc net work that doesn't randomly decide to eat its own fucking head for breakfast because it got bored and wanted to run an experiment one day
[10:43]	Ariadne	[04:25:23] <CrystalMath> gustaf: i really don't know what beef lilo had with DALnet to leave
[10:43]	leah	i want my irc to just work, and to run my software projects in peace
[10:43]	leah	and right now libera is that stability
[10:43]	Ariadne	lilo was not on dalnet, he was on undernet and then started his own
[10:43]	Ariadne	the dalnet people (including me) came later, as a result of dalnet being ddosed into the ground by the guy who started rizon
[10:43]	techrights-news	Realising people are "more selfish and uneducated" https://www.cracked.com/image-pictofact-6702-tell-us-now-20-lessons-we-learned-from-the-pandemic
[10:43]	leah	freenode can talk about decentralization all it wants. meanwhile, te rest of us actually have projects we'd like to get back to
[10:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Tell Us Now: 20 Lessons We Learned From The Pandemic | Cracked.com
[10:43]	leah	some of us even have jobs that require us to use irc
[10:44]	leah	tech jobs
[10:44]	Ariadne	(at the time nobody knew the rizon guy was the one doing it, but he was eventually arrested and convicted for it)
[10:44]	leah	it's not the 90s anymore. we're all mature enough now i think that we can have sane irc networks
[10:45]	leah	all the stuff that happened with freenode recently reminded me of what the internet was like in the early 2000s when i started using it. it was funny at first but then i realized oh shit, this is terrible for my opsec
[10:45]	Ariadne	its possible, but theres still a lot of kiddies out there who are shitty
[10:45]		*psydroid_ (~psydroid@cqggrmwgu7gji.irc) has joined #techrights
[10:45]	leah	and that ircd reset was the most asinine and cringe shit ever
[10:45]	Ariadne	running a prodution irc network is a lot of work, dealing with stupid people being stupid
[10:45]	leah	can't write a program to convert the database format over to the new software?
[10:46]	leah	well that's just laziness and there is no excuse
[10:46]	techrights-news	Danmarks Nationalbank hacked as part of 'the world's most sophisticated [cr]acker attack' https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=da&u=https://www.version2.dk/artikel/danmarks-nationalbank-hacket-led-verdens-mest-sofistikerede-hackerangreb-1092886
[10:46]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-translate.google.com | Google Translate
[10:46]	Ariadne	i don't think they had actual acess to the services database
[10:46]	Ariadne	which, tbh, was probably a good thing
[10:46]	techrights-news	#gopkkk now eating itself https://www.salon.com/2021/06/29/abandoned-and-lost-trump-launches-a-misguided-attack-on-mitch-mcconnell/
[10:46]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Abandoned and lost: Trump launches a misguided attack on Mitch McConnell | Salon.com
[10:46]	leah	well, sure. lee had domain name access but i'm unclear what actual server access he had
[10:47]	leah	domain access just means you control... dns
[10:47]	techrights-news	"real-name requirements discriminate especially against transgender persons. A mandatory requirement to provide official IDs would also prevent transgender persons from using distinct identities and names online." https://chaos.social/@echo_pbreyer/106488898713107175
[10:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Patrick Breyer: "(2/10) Right to anonymity: real-name requirements" - chaos.social
[10:47]		*schestowitz back
[10:48]	Ariadne	but regardless, a services database filled with stuff that was not relevant anymore (because nearly everyone left) is not useful anyway
[10:49]		*schestowitz catched up with 3 hours (was asleep)
[10:49]	schestowitz	*catches
[10:49]	schestowitz	psydruid: Sane was on the bench
[10:50]	leah	Ariadne: right now we're all making fun of freenode
[10:50]	schestowitz	I suppose losing 7-0 to Spain in a match with Gundogan also wasn't.... well, much of a success story
[10:50]	Ariadne	sure, i am just saying that if i were in the same shoes, i could see myself making the same call
[10:50]	leah	Ariadne: if lee was smarter, libera would have lost. it would have maybe some projects, but most would have stayed on freenode
[10:50]	Ariadne	leah: if lee were smarter, libera wouldn't have happened
[10:50]	leah	no he would have had his cake and eat it
[10:51]	leah	by taking that risk
[10:51]	leah	and playing it smart
[10:51]	leah	you can thank the cocaine for the fact that now the damage was limited. only *half* of all irc users left irc forever
[10:51]	leah	actually
[10:51]	activelow	Ariadne: it wasn't at least clarified/verified what data was collected, and staff resigning doesn't relieve from responsibilies either
[10:52]	leah	if lee were clean, and played it smart, freenode would probably still ahve about 90k users right now
[10:52]	Ariadne	i can tell you, what data exists in the services database
[10:52]	Ariadne	- usernames
[10:52]	Ariadne	- passwords
[10:52]	schestowitz	[08:56] <leah> freenode is a basket case now
[10:52]	Ariadne	- email addresses
[10:52]	schestowitz	it lives off its legacy/goodwill
[10:52]	activelow	i don't believe any single word of yours Ariadne 
[10:52]	Ariadne	- the occasional phone number, added as an annotation
[10:52]	Ariadne	activelow: why, i wrote the software
[10:52]	leah	Ariadne: it was pointless chaos
[10:53]	Ariadne	activelow: you can look at the code yourself
[10:53]	leah	they did the reset because at that point, they'd already lost so they thought fuck it, let's all have some fun at the expense of whoever is foolish to remain
[10:53]	schestowitz	These were also red flags/warning signs of irrational thinking and authoritarians --- >> [09:05] <leah> i think the chan takeovers will stop though that was jsut a panic response during the initial chaos
[10:53]	Ariadne	there is very little personal data that is actually collected, other than data manually added by ircops as annotations (marks)
[10:54]	Ariadne	the advice to delete your data in services was largely pointless, imo, because the really concerning data would have been added as marks
[10:54]	activelow	an elasticsearch affiliate was involved as "part of infrastructure"
[10:55]	activelow	Ariadne: where in your code could i find relevant hooks?
[10:55]	Ariadne	there is no way to make services talk to elasticsearch
[10:55]	Ariadne	services did not have the ability to see any channel messages either (they had usermode +D)
[10:56]	techrights-news	"Will be nice to have another competitive online FPS that you can play on Linux (providing you use Stadia that is). Hopefully it's better than the rubbish experience I had trying it on Xbox Cloud Gaming (xCloud)." #microsoft 8s #linux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/rainbow-six-siege-out-on-stadia-today-more-games-confirmed-and-a-big-mega-sale
[10:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Rainbow Six Siege out on Stadia today, more games confirmed and a big 'mega' sale | GamingOnLinux
[10:56]	leah	i love irc
[10:56]	Ariadne	anyway, the full list of hooks in atheme are here: https://github.com/atheme/atheme/blob/master/include/atheme/hooktypes.in
[10:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-atheme/hooktypes.in at master atheme/atheme GitHub
[10:56]	leah	and some coked up shihhead nearly destroyed it
[10:56]	leah	that's all i care about
[10:56]	leah	yes lee caused all this damage
[10:57]	leah	old staff mutiny and smear campaign against lee was an injustice, sure
[10:57]	schestowitz	THIS should be the objective ->> [09:23] * psydruid prefers to see an IRC world with each project having its own irc.$softwareproject.tld
[10:57]	leah	but lee acted like a complete dick afterwards and made everything worse for everyone
[10:58]	leah	to the point where i actually have forgiven libera staff for their initial transgression
[10:59]	schestowitz	Correction:  :-p there's no "MY" Twitter pages; all the pages are Twitter Inc's and you are just a tenant there --->> [09:27] <leah> and i've since apologized publicly to the fsf, via my twitter page
[10:59]	leah	schestowitz: there are benefits to larger networks though
[10:59]	Ariadne	there are, for now
[10:59]	Ariadne	thanks to andrew, the number of discord and slack instances i now have to be in doubled though
● Jun 30
[11:00]	Ariadne	fun fact: a company i worked for used slack for paging, so the slack notification sound literally gives me a PTSD response now
[11:00]	leah	that's the damage i was talking about, and lee did that
[11:00]	leah	all libera did was hurt freenode a bit
[11:00]	leah	freenode shot itself in the foot afterwards though, and hurt irc as a whole, pushed people away from irc altogether
[11:05]	Ariadne	libera didn't hurt freenode, libera was created on the assumption that lee was a bad faith actor
[11:05]	techrights-news	#System76 has launched Pop!_OS 21.04 with the new COSMIC desktop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837#comment-30101
[11:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[11:05]	Ariadne	they were right
[11:05]	Ariadne	it was the right call
[11:05]	Ariadne	if libera hadn't been created, the damage to the irc ecosystem would have been much greater
[11:05]	leah	using slack and discord tho
[11:05]	leah	that's really not right at all
[11:05]	leah	that won't do at all
[11:05]	techrights-news	Surreal point & click horror adventure Strangeland released for Linux | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/surreal-point-a-click-horror-adventure-strangeland-release-for-linux #GamingOnLinux #GNU #Linux #Games | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[11:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Surreal point & click horror adventure Strangeland released for Linux | GamingOnLinux
[11:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts
[11:06]	leah	those networks are a stain on humanity. irc and matrix are superior, as is xmpp
[11:06]		*schestowitz gleans over some truly bizarre IRC-related chat...
[11:06]	leah	superior because free as in freedom
[11:07]	leah	slack and discord are non-free
[11:07]	leah	though discord in particular seems to have mainstream appeal like irc used to
[11:08]	schestowitz	It is fast and lean, and being not as "broad" and "wide" as social control media keeps online wars and noise at bay. Number of users/messages is a bad metric of "success" ->> [10:17] <gustaf> I'm with leah, IRC is where stuff gets done
[11:08]	Ariadne	there are a lot of projects getting stuff done on the proprietary systems, too
[11:08]	leah	gustaf: but if old freenode was 90k users and libera is currently 42k, that is clearly damage
[11:09]	leah	46k actually. it seems to have risen. and sorry, i meant to highlight schestowitz not gustaf 
[11:09]	Ariadne	and the proprietary systems were already winning in the long term anyway, because irc does not include batteries
[11:10]		*schestowitz learns from Ariadne that lilo was in fact coming from dalnet (the first network I used)
[11:10]	Ariadne	no
[11:10]	Ariadne	he came from undernet
[11:11]	leah	i've only ever used freenode before libera, btw
[11:11]	Ariadne	the dalnet wave, myself, Isky, Barbicane, MysticOne, etc etc etc came later
[11:11]		*psydruid has quit (connection closed)
[11:11]	Ariadne	as a result of the ddos on DALnet
[11:11]	leah	except for a few obscure networks since, but i first started using irc in the early 2010s
[11:11]	leah	around 2012 or so
[11:11]	Ariadne	you can get push notifications to your phone from IRC, but it requires either using proprietary IRCCloud, or setting up a bunch of software yourself
[11:12]	Ariadne	if we want to win against proprietary replacements, we need to solve *that* problem
[11:12]	schestowitz	--->  I think it was XRevan86 or Robertson who said there was already a conversion script, a big buggy, but the developers offered to fix it free of charge, through new freenode didn't care and just flushed the whole thing ->>>  [10:45] <leah> can't write a program to convert the database format over to the new software?
[11:12]	Ariadne	unfortunately, the ircv3 community is only now starting to understand the importance of this
[11:12]		*psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights
[11:12]	schestowitz	They outsourced the risk and the work to tens of thousands of people who actually DID care about freenode -> [10:46] <leah> well that's just laziness and there is no excuse
[11:12]	Ariadne	but people want those features, which is why they use the proprietary software
[11:13]	schestowitz	we 'converted' it for them, manually, person by person, channel by channel (I even had to beg people to op me to be able to do this properly) -->>  <leah> well that's just laziness and there is no excuse 
[11:14]	leah	i need sleep
[11:14]	leah	thanks for the chats
[11:14]	Ariadne	have a nice sleep
[11:15]	schestowitz	In some contexts there are benefits , sure -> [10:59] <leah> schestowitz: there are benefits to larger networks though
[11:16]	schestowitz	Over time I'm leaning back on the old ways when we had amicable small communities, not emotional train wrecks like Twitter
[11:16]	schestowitz	Ariadne: all notifications bother me, I think they're usually not necessary
[11:17]	schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2019/05/27/reply-in-large-batches/
[11:17]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Want to be Efficient? Disable Notifications. Read and Reply in Large Batches.
[11:17]	Ariadne	that's you, i've fought tooth and nail for communities to stay on IRC
[11:17]	Ariadne	people want notifications
[11:18]	Ariadne	quassel is screwing up again
[11:18]	schestowitz	For notification, if someone is really urgent, use landline [11:11] <Ariadne> you can get push notifications to your phone from IRC, but it requires either using proprietary IRCCloud, or setting up a bunch of software yourself
[11:19]	Ariadne	nobody cares about that argument
[11:19]	schestowitz	[11:14] <leah> i need sleep
[11:19]	schestowitz	gn
[11:19]	schestowitz	quassel generates too many notifications, with sound too I noticed, by default
[11:19]	schestowitz	kde4/plasma4
[11:20]	Ariadne	i'm going to give irccloud a go, their software is basically open source, but i want to make this no longer my problem
[11:20]	Ariadne	50 bucks a year seems reasonable
[11:20]	schestowitz	Ariadne: I know people who complain about notifications
[11:20]	Ariadne	you can turn them off :P
[11:20]	schestowitz	because they cannot think straight,  the distraction is endlessless never-ending and can become afddictive
[11:20]	schestowitz	because they start to associate calm and quiet with lack of popularity
[11:20]	schestowitz	a
[11:20]	schestowitz	FOMO kind of thing
[11:21]	schestowitz	quiet should be time to think clearly, writer, reflect
[11:21]	Ariadne	well, in my case, it is because there is a lot of alpine stuff that i miss out on because i don't get the notification
[11:21]	Ariadne	i had this kind of working on android, with quasseldroid
[11:21]	schestowitz	i see....
[11:21]	Ariadne	but the iOS quassel client is just abysmal
[11:21]	Ariadne	and, i don't care to write my own
[11:21]	schestowitz	I didn't know they also do mobile now
[11:21]	Ariadne	i looked into the quassel wire protocol and noped out
[11:22]	schestowitz	I write my own notifs
[11:22]	schestowitz	for events that matter
[11:23]	Ariadne	yes, again, we have different usecases
[11:23]	Ariadne	:p
[11:23]	schestowitz	notify-send --app-name=konversation -t 3500 -u low 'Video done!!!!! Uploading'
[11:23]	schestowitz	notify-send --app-name=konversation -t 3500 -u low 'DONE Uploading'
[11:23]	schestowitz	I can variables too
[11:23]	schestowitz	when I post something and I check if it got through to irc ok
[11:24]	schestowitz	 echo -n $stage $variable | ./notify-pipe
[11:24]	Ariadne	stuff like thelounge is also good
[11:24]	schestowitz	~$ cat notify-pipe 
[11:24]	schestowitz	#!/usr/bin/env sh
[11:24]	schestowitz	read notification
[11:24]	schestowitz	notify-send --app-name=konversation -t 1500 -u low  "$notification" "$notification" "$@"
[11:25]	schestowitz	where:
[11:25]	schestowitz	    n=$((5 * $remainder - 18 )) # This the number of characters we want to produce
[11:25]	schestowitz	    variable=$(printf "%0.s" $(seq 1 $n)) # Fill $variable with $n periods
[11:25]	schestowitz	    stage=$(echo -n $remainder && echo -n " - ")
[11:26]	schestowitz	it helps make notifications that show me what I really want to know and only when I need to know
[11:26]	schestowitz	konvversation has a neat notification system, but not expressive enough
[11:26]	schestowitz	it does have regex
[11:27]	schestowitz	I think the key point if observing oneself and the notifs
[11:27]	schestowitz	then writing down or taking mental notes
[11:27]	schestowitz	"do I need to know?"
[11:27]	schestowitz	"did that interrupt me?"
[11:27]	schestowitz	"would I have found our regardless in a moment when not in the middle of something?"
[11:28]	schestowitz	the really urgent things depend on the person
[11:28]	schestowitz	like high load on a server
[11:28]	schestowitz	If you cut off 1 hour of distraction a week, that's 2 days in a year
[11:29]	schestowitz	coding some rules custom-made or tailored to one's own workflow should not take more than an hour
[11:30]	schestowitz	Twitter notification I check 1-3 times per week
[11:30]	schestowitz	MINDS once in 2 weeks
[11:30]	schestowitz	JoinDiaspora sends detailed emails with all the comments attached to my posts, so notifications are not needed at all
[11:31]	schestowitz	the email approach is good because you can let it all pile up without losing anything
[11:32]	techrights-news	#mintCast 364 The Better Beta https://mintcast.org/2021/06/30/mintcast-364-the-better-beta/ #gnu #linux
[11:32]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mintcast.org | mintCast 364 The Better Beta mintCast
[11:32]	schestowitz	I wrote a bunch of stuff in bash, if anyone wants me to help write some notification rules for him/her
[11:32]	schestowitz	notify-send is quite universal across desktop environments
[11:33]	schestowitz	like knotify
[11:33]		*lockeanarchist has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
[11:34]	techrights-news	"The first release candidate for #WordPress 5.8 is now available!" https://wordpress.org/news/2021/06/wordpress-5-8-release-candidate/ #cms #gpl #freesw #www
[11:34]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-News WordPress 5.8 Release Candidate WordPress.org
[11:35]	techrights-news	New headline: [Vapourware] "will leave millions of PCs behind, and Microsoft is struggling to explain why" (well, #microsoft just keeps bombarding the media with this crap regardless). We can guess what this helps DISTRACT from, e.g. http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[11:35]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is a Lot Worse Than Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple | Techrights
[11:36]	techrights-news	The #Microsoft Directive: STOP TALKING ABOUT OUR SHITTY SHITTY PRODUCTS. TALK ABOUT FICTIONAL ONES INSTEAD. THANK... YOU!
[11:37]	techrights-news	If you think that #MicrosoftLovesLinux then you're not paying attention to what's really going on and what they hope to accomplish: http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/survey-server-report/
[11:37]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Has Become Almost Extinct in Web Servers (and in Servers in General), But the Mainstream Media Rarely If Ever Talks About That | Techrights
[11:37]		*dsfdsfsdf_ (~dfsdf@a5bsj5vwcvmvi.irc) has joined #techrights
[11:38]	techrights-news	Jean-Luc Aufranc (CNXSoft) boosting #microsoft #vapourware again. FFS, Jean-Luc... don't be their "useful idiot"... focus on ACTUAL and REAL products, preferably #gnu #linux
[11:38]	schestowitz	dsfdsfsdf_: QWERTY user I take it :-)
[11:41]	techrights-news	#PopOS 21.04 With New COSMIC Desktop is Available to Download http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837#comment-30102 #gnu #linux
[11:41]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[11:42]	techrights-news	"Equal opportunity is a must," says a company that profited from and helped the Third Reich. Its second-biggest client. https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2021/6/hybrid-work-3-truths-leaders-cant-ignore
[11:42]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-enterprisersproject.com | Hybrid work: 3 truths leaders can't ignore | The Enterprisers Project
[11:43]	techrights-news	Making #java seem more trendy again by calling it "clown" something... https://developers.redhat.com/articles/2021/06/30/making-java-programs-cloud-ready-part-3-integrate-microprofile-services #clowncomputing #programming #redhat
[11:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-developers.redhat.com | Making Java programs cloud-ready, Part 3: Integrate MicroProfile services | Red Hat Developer
[11:44]	techrights-news	Making bad ideas "cool" or "trendy"; #apple looking for solutions in search of a problem. And creates new problems! Now you need to CHARGE your HEADPHONES! https://www.maketecheasier.com/airpods-alternatives-best-true-wireless-earphones/
[11:44]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.maketecheasier.com | AirPods Alternatives: 6 of the Best Wireless Earphones You Should Get - Make Tech Easier
[11:45]	techrights-news	ZARDOS, Ze #ARDuino Operating System https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/06/30/zardos-the-ze-arduino-operating-system/
[11:45]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.arduino.cc | ZARDOS, Ze ARDuino Operating System | Arduino Blog
[11:47]	techrights-news	Those are #gnu programs, #redhat , most of them have nothing to do with #linux (which is a #kernel really) https://www.redhat.com/sysadmin/linux-commands-to-know see http://techrights.org/2020/01/02/gnu-programs-as-linux-commands/
[11:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.redhat.com | 17 Linux commands every sysadmin should know | Enable Sysadmin
[11:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | GNU Programs Arent Linux Commands But GNU Programs | Techrights
[11:47]	techrights-news	#redhat is no longer a "Linux company". It's an IBM company and it acts accordingly. http://techrights.org/2021/03/28/ibm-and-rms-incompatible/
[11:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IBM and RMS Are Not Compatible | Techrights
[11:48]	techrights-news	#Games : Rainbow Six Siege, Strangeland, and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152849 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[11:48]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Games: Rainbow Six Siege, Strangeland, and More | Tux Machines
[11:51]	techrights-news	Going #Deepin on #Fuchsia | #LINUXUnplugged 412 https://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/145432/going-deepin-on-fuchsia-linux-unplugged-412/ #gnu #linux
[11:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.jupiterbroadcasting.com | Going Deepin on Fuchsia | LINUX Unplugged 412 | Jupiter Broadcasting
[11:51]	techrights-news	#RedHat Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152850 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[11:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Red Hat Leftovers | Tux Machines
[11:52]	techrights-news	"Copying everything #apple does" is usually NOT progress. Except the things Apple already copied from #gnu #linux (which innovates better than those oppressive companies where the brain stops working)
[11:57]	techrights-news	"Today, I had a few minutes of free time so I decided to install Gentoo. So I decided to do a Stage 3 installation inside a virtual machine, and it didn't seem right to install Gentoo and not also record it." #gentoo #gnu #linux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sOfX_Lb1As
[11:57]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-A Base Gentoo Installation - YouTube
● Jun 30
[12:01]		*techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[12:01]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 25.56   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 30.61 swarm size (avg): 307.49  
[12:02]	techrights-news	Childrens Drawing App Tux Paint Now Has Gradient Fill and Pixel Art Options http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152818#comment-30103
[12:02]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Tux Paint 0.9.26 Open-Source Drawing Software for Children Released with New Magic Tools | Tux Machines
[12:03]	techrights-news	Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152851 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[12:03]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux Machines
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[12:08]		*Ariadne (~sid506515@zmgg7ft3mzjri.irc) has joined #techrights
[12:11]	techrights-news	When #linuxfoundation trash becomes SPAM in 'Linux' blogs https://www.tecmint.com/software-deployment-environments/ see http://techrights.org/2021/01/25/linux-foundation-training-and-certifications/
[12:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tecmint.com | LFCA: Learn Software Deployment Environments Part 23
[12:11]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Linux Foundation, With Over 124 Million Dollars in Annual Revenue, is in Trouble Because of the Pandemic, So Its Trying to Reinvent Itself as Training and Certifications Outfit | Techrights
[12:12]	schestowitz	leah: postscript:
[12:13]	schestowitz	I think you wanted some of those full-time devs for fsf to tackle high-priority things
[12:13]	schestowitz	and ar1di4ne wanted many packages fixes
[12:13]	schestowitz	but it would not scale well
[12:13]	schestowitz	1) there are more high-priority projects than devs
[12:14]	schestowitz	so they cannot efficiently tackle enough, and you don't want some projects of important to receive funding, whereas others get none
[12:15]	schestowitz	as for 2), they cannot learn all those programs and their bugs, and moreover they're not familiar with the bugs in the queue (age, severity, duplicates)
[12:15]	schestowitz	so the only solution is lots and lots of devs, even if 'just' volunteers
[12:16]	schestowitz	for many years red hat staff was happy to adopt and maintain pertinent packages
[12:16]	schestowitz	things sort of changed the moment ibm came in (2018)
[12:16]	schestowitz	a year later they wanted RMS out
[12:16]	schestowitz	and then had a round two in March of this year
[12:16]	schestowitz	IBM is "king of axes"
[12:17]	techrights-news	RMS: "Right-wing propaganda claims that increasing rates of violent crime result from local policy changes, which in many cases did not really happen." https://stallman.org/archives/2021-mar-jun.html#29_June_2021_(Right-wing_violence_hype)
[12:17]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stallman.org | 2021: March - June Political Notes - Richard Stallman
[12:20]	techrights-news	"I generally do DuckDuckGo searches with the unknown word or acronym along with the context I found it in" https://madds.hollandart.io/blog/outreachy/ev/ #DuckDuckGo is a #scam . Please do not use it and certainly do not encourage others to use it: http://techrights.org/2021/03/15/duckduckgo-in-2021/
[12:20]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-madds.hollandart.io | Everyone Struggles /madds
[12:20]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Why You Should Avoid DuckDuckGo (DDG) 2021 Edition, Now Microsoft-Hosted and With Extra Privacy Risks | Techrights
[12:20]	techrights-news	#MakuluLinux Flash is Live + Extras ! http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152852 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[12:20]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | MakuluLinux Flash is Live + Extras ! | Tux Machines
[12:21]	techrights-news	Linux for Starters: Your Guide to Linux Installing Software Part 7 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152853 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[12:21]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux for Starters: Your Guide to Linux Installing Software Part 7 | Tux Machines
[12:21]	techrights-news	How a college student founded a free and open source operating system http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152854
[12:21]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | How a college student founded a free and open source operating system | Tux Machines
[12:22]	techrights-news	9 reasons I love to use the #QtCreator IDE http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152855 #programming
[12:22]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | 9 reasons I love to use the Qt Creator IDE | Tux Machines
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[12:25]	techrights-news	Now #billBC is talking about #covid19 death toll. After looking the other way in #wembley and pretending all was well! http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/06/30/wembley-losing-control-of-covid/
[12:25]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com Blog Archive Britain Lost in Wembley
[12:26]	techrights-news	New from RMS: "What do you say about users of WhatsApp? What sApps!" https://stallman.org/puns.html#whatsapp
[12:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stallman.org | Puns - Richard Stallman
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[12:32]	schestowitz	downtime...
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[12:37]		*Topic for #techrights is: Techrights.org IRC discussions @ localhost | Channel #techrights for http://techrights.org [logged online] :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell for related discussions. For scrollback see http://techrights.org/irc-channel/
[12:37]		*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~roy@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc at Fri Jun 18 16:51:47 2021
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[12:37]	schestowitz/fn	<Guest90> Ariadne: the hv is down (this is Roy BTW)
[12:37]	schestowitz	<Guest90> Ariadne: the hv is down (this is Roy BTW)
[12:37]	schestowitz/fn	<Guest90> nm, it's back :-)
[12:37]	schestowitz	<Guest90> nm, it's back :-)
[12:38]	schestowitz/fn	thankfully just a network glitch, I think
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[12:45]		*Topic for #techrights is: Techrights.org IRC discussions @ localhost | Channel #techrights for http://techrights.org [logged online] :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell for related discussions. For scrollback see http://techrights.org/irc-channel/
[12:45]		*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~roy@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc at Fri Jun 18 16:51:47 2021
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[12:46]	techrights-news	#OpenZFS 2.1-rc8 Brings Linux 5.13 Compatibility, More Fixes http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152856 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[12:46]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | OpenZFS 2.1-rc8 Brings Linux 5.13 Compatibility, More Fixes | Tux Machines
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[12:46]	activelow	two glitches
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[12:47]	schestowitz	activelow: seems like network-related
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[12:47]	schestowitz	<tr-bridge> [Ariadne/tr] i'm trying to fix the ipv6
[12:47]	schestowitz	<tr-bridge> [Ariadne/tr] this is FRR being stupid for certain
[12:47]	schestowitz	<tr-bridge> [Ariadne/tr] i'm trying to fix the ipv6, there is some bug in my routeservers
[12:47]	schestowitz	(from the other side of a split)
[12:48]	activelow	ok. np
[12:49]	schestowitz	this is our first time to test the cross-network redundancy in a sense
[12:49]	schestowitz	inc. the logging, which I can toggle on and off for each network
[12:49]	schestowitz	ipfs user will recover on its own later, it checks periodically if it's still connected
[12:50]	Ariadne	taking one of the routers out of service so i can reconfigure it
[12:50]	schestowitz	thanks for the quick reply/response and headsup
[12:53]	techrights-news	#Google #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152859 #Linux #TuxMachines
[12:53]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines
[12:57]	Ariadne	getting pretty tired of cisco tbh
[12:58]	schestowitz	what are the alts?
[12:58]	Ariadne	think i might switch to something else, like juniper
[12:58]	schestowitz	seems like one evil and another tbh
[12:58]	schestowitz	in technical terms
[12:58]		*x_ is now known as kingoffrance
[12:59]	schestowitz	ages ago there was some company called vyatta or something
[12:59]	schestowitz	I forgot their name, haven't heard it in like a decade
[12:59]		*swimmer84 (~swimmer@ip5b4276c1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) has joined #techrights
[12:59]	schestowitz	they said they were "open source" and had their own distro
● Jun 30
[13:13]	activelow	static routing? bgp? ospf? isn't trivial, ipv6 hurts.
[13:14]	techrights-news	Links 30/6/2021: Pop!_OS 21.04 Release and MakuluLinux Flash 2021 Desktop http://techrights.org/2021/06/30/pop_os-21-04-release/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2021/06/30/pop_os-21-04-release/
[13:14]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Links 30/6/2021: Pop!_OS 21.04 Release and MakuluLinux Flash 2021 Desktop | Techrights
[13:15]	techrights-news	#OpenHardware /Modding Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152860 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[13:15]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Open Hardware/Modding Leftovers | Tux Machines
[13:16]	techrights-news	Audiocasts/Shows: Gentoo, LINUX Unplugged, mintCast, and Full Circle Weekly News http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152861
[13:16]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Audiocasts/Shows: Gentoo, LINUX Unplugged, mintCast, and Full Circle Weekly News | Tux Machines
[13:17]	techrights-news	Being all for diversity is fine and good, but in technical projects make sure that technical things are of foremost importance, otherwise they boil or bog down to politics and may fail to accomplish their technical goals
[13:17]	techrights-news	#Server : #Docker , #Kubernetes, and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152862 #GNU #Linux
[13:17]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Server: Docker, Kubernetes, and More | Tux Machines
[13:18]	techrights-news	Todays Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152863 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[13:18]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux Machines
[13:18]	schestowitz	OK, now I have time to do articles/videos before work...
[13:19]	schestowitz	wrote 6 steps for future IRC outages
[13:19]	schestowitz	to make sure we can minimise the effect
[13:20]	schestowitz	we're looking into how to gemini-fy wikis
[13:20]	schestowitz	no person has written software for that, it would seem....
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[13:43]		*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~roy@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc at Fri Jun 18 16:51:47 2021
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[13:48]	schestowitz	<lightbringer> 30 075012 < XRevan86> schestowitz: Regarding freenode and money, it kind of didn't have money thrown at it, the people who ran it weren't employed. Of course now it's a commercial company through and through, but that's not exactly the result of money throwing.
[13:48]	schestowitz	<lightbringer> it was set up in a way that made it dependent on money anyway
[13:48]	schestowitz	<lightbringer> even back in the PDPC days
[13:48]	schestowitz	pasted for logs
[13:49]	schestowitz	yes, well... FN is an unknown now
[13:49]	lightbringer	and yes, GNU needs saving
[13:49]		*freed00m (~freed00m_@freenode-v2p.o8c.cufafo.IP) has joined #techrights
[13:49]	schestowitz	the question is how...
[13:49]	schestowitz	it has been under attack for decades
[13:50]	schestowitz	and it's not the fault or RMS
[13:50]		*gustaf (~gerikson@freenode/user/gustaf) has joined #techrights
[13:50]	gustaf	is the main server down? 
[13:50]	schestowitz	hi gustaf
[13:50]	schestowitz	router issues
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[13:51]	gustaf	ok I see 
[13:51]	schestowitz	it's being worked on
[13:51]	schestowitz	but... at least we get to test situations like these, where we have fallover
[13:51]	freed00m	both www and irc, .116 and .117
[13:51]	schestowitz	yes, it's the HV
[13:51]	schestowitz	its connection
[13:52]	lightbringer	not sure about that -- they have yet to push back against systemd, for example
[13:52]	lightbringer	the last time they pushed back against OSPS was long ago, with mono, afaik
[13:52]	schestowitz	now the can
[13:52]	schestowitz	because IBM already said upfront, no money for FSF
[13:52]	schestowitz	even with mono they minced words
[13:53]		*Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
[13:53]	schestowitz	while the network of hv is in flux we can use this channel
[13:53]		*Now talking on #techrights
[13:53]		*Topic for #techrights is: Techrights.org IRC discussions @ localhost | Channel #techrights for http://techrights.org [logged online] :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell for related discussions. For scrollback see http://techrights.org/irc-channel/
[13:53]		*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~roy@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc at Fri Jun 18 16:51:47 2021
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[13:53]	schestowitz	test bridge
[13:54]	schestowitz/fn	test bridge
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[13:54]	lightbringer/fn	30 083825 <~schestowitz> I remember when ROBBER BARON Bill Gates (GENIUS!) lectured us all on "gentle capitalism!"
[13:54]	lightbringer	30 083825 <~schestowitz> I remember when ROBBER BARON Bill Gates (GENIUS!) lectured us all on "gentle capitalism!"
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[13:54]	Ariadne	bifurcated the network into an ipv4 and ipv6 segment
[13:54]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] bifurcated the network into an ipv4 and ipv6 segment
[13:54]	lightbringer/fn	taking over your property, gently
[13:54]	lightbringer	taking over your property, gently
[13:54]	lightbringer/fn	enslaving you gently
[13:54]	lightbringer	enslaving you gently
[13:54]		*x (~x__@4mmu4fx6g3jvs.irc) has joined #techrights
[13:54]	Ariadne	so i can debug
[13:54]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] so i can debug
[13:54]	lightbringer/fn	destroying your livelihood gently
[13:54]	lightbringer	destroying your livelihood gently
[13:54]	schestowitz/fn	[13:54] <lightbringer> 30 083825 <~schestowitz> I remember when ROBBER BARON Bill Gates (GENIUS!) lectured us all on "gentle capitalism!"
[13:54]	schestowitz	[13:54] <lightbringer> 30 083825 <~schestowitz> I remember when ROBBER BARON Bill Gates (GENIUS!) lectured us all on "gentle capitalism!"
[13:54]	schestowitz/fn	gentle genius
[13:54]	schestowitz	gentle genius
[13:54]	schestowitz	excellent, Ariadne, and thank you
[13:54]	tr-bridge	[schestowitz/tr] excellent, Ariadne, and thank you
[13:55]	schestowitz	"I predict that companies will buy laws to give them immunity. That's the plutocratic way of life." https://stallman.org/archives/2021-mar-jun.html#29_June_2021_(Global_heating_attribution)
[13:55]	tr-bridge	[schestowitz/tr] "I predict that companies will buy laws to give them immunity. That's the plutocratic way of life." https://stallman.org/archives/2021-mar-jun.html#29_June_2021_(Global_heating_attribution)
[13:55]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stallman.org | 2021: March - June Political Notes - Richard Stallman
[13:55]		-tr-bridge/#techrights-[TechrightsBot-tr/tr] stallman.org | 2021: March - June Political Notes - Richard Stallman
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[13:56]	lightbringer/fn	destroying IT gently
[13:56]	lightbringer	destroying IT gently
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● Jun 30
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[14:01]	techrights-news	Is #remmina useful for your daily work? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152864 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[14:01]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Is remmina useful for your daily work? | Tux Machines
[14:01]	MinceR	30 091202 < CrystalMath> what do you then?
[14:01]	MinceR	you could unlock them
[14:01]	MinceR	and make it clear that letting people know where the official channels are going is acceptable, but preventing talk in the channels they're leaving is not
[14:02]	MinceR	you can also wait for the process to end
[14:08]	Ariadne	learning a lot about JunOS routing today
[14:08]	Ariadne	the hard way
[14:08]	Ariadne	thanks cisco
[14:09]	Ariadne	thankfully, i already decided to upgrade the hardware, but i was planning to uhh, do this on site
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[14:09]	Ariadne	without remote (e.g. idiotic) hands
[14:09]	schestowitz	ah... so maybe forced upgrade
[14:09]	schestowitz	like leaving freenode for self-hosted
[14:12]	MinceR	30 101456 < leah> some of the admins suck, but i can say the same thing about freenode too
[14:12]	MinceR	yes, but there are other choices
[14:12]	MinceR	there's no reason for people to be hostages of illibera, oftc or freenode
[14:13]	schestowitz	it's the clown computing situation
[14:13]	schestowitz	with this I can talk to the admin
[14:13]	schestowitz	not check the twitter account of azure/aws/google and BEG
[14:13]	schestowitz	mainframes were on-site too
[14:13]	schestowitz	so you could repair or ask ibm for help
[14:15]	schestowitz	this issue was tackled quickly, I think, given that it involved hardware/network issues, as was also the case when HE had some issues with their equipment and there was a way to work around it
[14:19]	schestowitz	[14:16] <tr-bridge> [MinceR/tr] 30 102747 < CrystalMath> because... the old freenode staff k-lined so many of my friends
[14:19]	schestowitz	[14:16] <tr-bridge> [techrights-news/tr] Interview to Hossein Nourikhah https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2021/06/30/interview-to-hossein-nourikhah/ #documentfoundation #LibreOffice
[14:19]	schestowitz	[14:16] <tr-bridge> [MinceR/tr] it might be a good idea to post logs of that
[14:19]	schestowitz	it might be useful
[14:20]	schestowitz	I might write long articles about the IRC situation next mont
[14:20]	Librarian	https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/06/hackers-exploited-0-day-not-2018-bug-to-mass-wipe-my-book-live-devices/
[14:20]	Librarian	Just a useful reminder that, if something's going to be connected to the internet, it should:
[14:20]	Librarian	A. Use open-source code
[14:20]	Librarian	B. Use mature, supported software, rather than one-off implementations
[14:21]	Librarian	Because this allows:
[14:21]	Librarian	1. Community-wide inspection and testing of the code, and
[14:21]	Librarian	2. Community-provided updates, faster than a single entity can provide the.
[14:21]	Librarian	*them.
[14:22]	schestowitz	Headlining the power management updates for the Linux 5.14 merge window is the Intel P-State CPU frequency scaling driver now being adapted to handle hybrid processors https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-Power-Management
[14:22]		-tr-bridge/#techrights-[TechrightsBot-tr/tr] Resolving timed out after 10520 milliseconds ( status 0 @ https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-Power-Management )
[14:25]	tr-bridge	[MinceR/tr] 30 114411 < Ariadne> (at the time nobody knew the rizon guy was the one doing it, but he was eventually arrested and convicted for it)
[14:25]	tr-bridge	[MinceR/tr] wasn't he convicted for DDoSsing other systems (not DALnet)?
[14:25]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] the conviction included DALnet
[14:25]	schestowitz	Don't know...
[14:25]	tr-bridge	[MinceR/tr] i've found very little on him DDoSsing DALnet
[14:26]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] afaik
[14:26]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] ::/0                 blackhole [static_default_v6 13:24:57.647] * (200)
[14:26]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] and yet,
[14:26]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] the stupid fucking distribution router does not see the defualt route
[14:26]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] wtf
[14:27]		*tr-bridge [Ariadne/tr] debates just hacking it for now
[14:27]	schestowitz	I noticed some machines can access some things, some cannot, but I don't know why
[14:27]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] ipv6
[14:27]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] i just hackfixed it for now
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[MinceR/tr] 30 115451 < Ariadne> the advice to delete your data in services was largely pointless, imo, because the really concerning data would have been added as marks
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[MinceR/tr] do marks remain if you drop your account?
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] sip-sfo1-dist-core#configure
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] sip-sfo1-dist-core(conf)#ipv6 route ::/0 2602:fd37:fff:1::e
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] sip-sfo1-dist-core(conf)#ex
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] yes, marks remain
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] the marks are things like "contact <phone number> for urgent issues"
[14:28]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] e.g. for group contacts
[14:29]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] i mean its all moot now since the database is allegedly destroyed i guess
[14:29]	tr-bridge	[gustaf/tr] Ariadne: I can't remember in what forum, but I raised the issues faced by IRC in the modern world (persistent connection, mobile support etc etc) and was blithely told that ircv3 will fix all of that
[14:30]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] ircv3 has plumbing to fix some of it, and more is coming
[14:30]	tr-bridge	[Ariadne/tr] but convincing people to stay in the game instead of switching to proprietary options, is the challenge
[14:31]	tr-bridge	[gustaf/tr] let's face it , the IRC user experience is janky AF
[14:31]	tr-bridge	[gustaf/tr] compared to something like Discord
[14:31]	Librarian	https://www.marketwatch.com/story/government-must-have-power-to-reverse-crypto-transactions-says-co-chair-of-blockchain-caucus-11624995008
[14:31]	Librarian	In the, "missing-the-point-entirely" department, here's an example of a guy opposing both software freedom and economic freedom.
[14:32]	tr-bridge	[gustaf/tr] and sure, they're closed source and VC subsidize,d but they can afford to have a team of people just polishing UI
[14:32]	tr-bridge	[gustaf/tr] UX rather
[14:32]		*Disconnected (Connection timed out).
[14:33]	schestowitz	Vista X
[14:33]	schestowitz	User X
[14:33]	schestowitz	experience = x
[14:33]	schestowitz	x is more exciting than an e
[14:33]	schestowitz	like "blue e"
[14:33]		*koo6 has quit (Ping timeout: 120 seconds)
[14:34]		*koo7 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
[14:36]	tr-bridge	[schestowitz/tr] back on
[14:36]		*Now talking on #techrights
[14:36]		*Topic for #techrights is: Techrights.org IRC discussions @ localhost | Channel #techrights for http://techrights.org [logged online] :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell for related discussions. For scrollback see http://techrights.org/irc-channel/
[14:36]		*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~roy@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc at Fri Jun 18 16:51:47 2021
[14:37]		*techrights-news (~techrights-news@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[14:38]	techrights-news	#zemlinPAC super-pumped to bring back the cash cow at the expense of people's safety ttps://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-linux-foundation-announces-registration-is-open-for-open-source-summit-and-more-fall-events-301322760.html see http://techrights.org/2021/01/25/linux-foundation-training-and-certifications/
[14:38]	tr-bridge	[techrights-news/tr] #zemlinPAC super-pumped to bring back the cash cow at the expense of people's safety ttps://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/the-linux-foundation-announces-registration-is-open-for-open-source-summit-and-more-fall-events-301322760.html see http://techrights.org/2021/01/25/linux-foundation-training-and-certifications/
[14:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Linux Foundation, With Over 124 Million Dollars in Annual Revenue, is in Trouble Because of the Pandemic, So Its Trying to Reinvent Itself as Training and Certifications Outfit | Techrights
[14:38]		-tr-bridge/#techrights-[TechrightsBot-tr/tr] techrights.org | The Linux Foundation, With Over 124 Million Dollars in Annual Revenue, is in Trouble Because of the Pandemic, So Its Trying to Reinvent Itself as Training and Certifications Outfit | Techrights
[14:40]	Ariadne	gustaf: yes, but irccloud at least demonstrates it is possible to make all of this work
[14:41]	Ariadne	despite being SaaS, it is at least FOSS-friendly SaaS
[14:41]	techrights-news	An #EPYC escape: Case-study of a #KVM breakout https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2021/06/an-epyc-escape-case-study-of-kvm.html #security
[14:41]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-googleprojectzero.blogspot.com | Project Zero: An EPYC escape: Case-study of a KVM breakout
[14:42]		*koo7 (~koo6@89-24-13-235.customers.tmcz.cz) has joined #techrights
[14:42]	Ariadne	heh
[14:43]	techrights-news	Venice GW7100 compact industrial SBC packs one Gigabit Ethernet port, one mPCIe socket - CNX Software https://www.cnx-software.com/2021/06/30/venice-gw7100-sbc-gigabit-ethernet-mpcie-socket/ #Linux #GNU #Hardware #cnxsoftware | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[14:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cnx-software.com | Venice GW7100 compact industrial SBC packs one Gigabit Ethernet port, one mPCIe socket - CNX Software
[14:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10519 milliseconds ( status 0 @ http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest )
[14:43]	gustaf	yeah 
[14:44]	gustaf	I e-know a bunch of people who use irccloud
[14:46]	gustaf	banning it was another weird decision
[14:47]	gustaf	(banning it from Freenode)
[14:47]	techrights-news	Surreal point & click horror adventure Strangeland released for Linux | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/surreal-point-a-click-horror-adventure-strangeland-released-for-linux #GamingOnLinux #GNU #Linux #Games | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[14:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10519 milliseconds ( status 0 @ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/surreal-point-a-click-horror-adventure-strangeland-released-for-linux )
[14:47]	techrights-news	Top-down stealth escape horror The Equinox Hunt is now on Linux | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/top-down-stealth-escape-horror-the-equinox-hunt-is-now-on-linux #GamingOnLinux #GNU #Linux #Games | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[14:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Top-down stealth escape horror The Equinox Hunt is now on Linux | GamingOnLinux
[14:48]	techrights-news	"Free Game Wednesday? Yup! How about short, intriguing and incredible looking pixel-art mystery adventure with How We Know We're Alive. Missed this one originally as it didn't mention Linux in the announcement trailer but it seems it did release for Linux too!" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/how-we-know-were-alive-a-free-point-a-click-mystery-set-in-swedens-bible-belt
[14:48]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-How We Know We're Alive - a free point & click mystery set in Sweden's bible belt | GamingOnLinux
[14:50]	schestowitz	gustaf: maybe because of a tweet
[14:50]	schestowitz	'dissing' the "king of overdraft"
[14:51]	activelow	mr. lee said the old database was not destroyed, it was not migrated intentionally, had to dig inside logs where and when he said it
[14:52]	techrights-news	They overuse the term "edge" now... like they did clown https://www.suse.com/c/imaging-at-the-edge/
[14:52]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Imaging at the Edge | SUSE Communities
[14:53]	techrights-news	#google tired of #microsoft abuses https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/222591 see http://techrights.org/2021/06/29/microsoft-behind-big-tech-narrative/
[14:53]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10519 milliseconds ( status 0 @ https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/222591 )
[14:53]	MinceR	https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/945/985/97f.png
[14:53]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is a Lot Worse Than Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple | Techrights
[14:53]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10519 milliseconds ( status 0 @ https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/945/985/97f.png )
[14:55]	techrights-news	The Big Set Of Networking Changes For Linux 5.14 - Phoronix https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-Networking #Phoronix #Kernel #Linux | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[14:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10520 milliseconds ( status 0 @ https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-5.14-Networking )
[14:58]		*leah (~leah@wrh2nipuzrd3y.irc) has joined #techrights
[14:58]	Ariadne	anyway enough hack fixes for now
[14:59]	Ariadne	ARIN is assigning a new /22 today
[14:59]	Ariadne	i will need to return the /24 soon
[14:59]	Ariadne	so we should plan on renumbering soon
● Jun 30
[15:00]	schestowitz	is that better timed to coincide with today's swap?
[15:01]	schestowitz	For reasons unknown to me, maybe ipv6 or dns, on some machines I cannot access the sites, ssh seems to work ok, irc has settled
[15:02]		*psymin (~psymin@me3biw7mdts84.irc) has joined #techrights
[15:12]	blitzed	!COFFEE
[15:15]	techrights-news	This low-cost device uses tinyML on Arduino to detect respiratory diseases in pigs | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2021/06/30/this-low-cost-device-uses-tinyml-on-arduino-to-detect-respiratory-diseases-in-pigs/ #Arduino #Hardware #OpenHardware #Hacking | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[15:15]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.arduino.cc | This low-cost device uses tinyML on Arduino to detect respiratory diseases in pigs | Arduino Blog
[15:16]	techrights-news	#Rakudo #compiler , Release #147 (2021.06) https://rakudo.org/post/announce-rakudo-release-2021.06 #programming #raklang
[15:16]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Resolving timed out after 10520 milliseconds ( status 0 @ https://rakudo.org/post/announce-rakudo-release-2021.06 )
[15:19]		*job has quit (connection closed)
[15:19]		*cyndaquil has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[15:19]	MinceR	https://i.redd.it/495v78ir47871.png
[15:20]	techrights-news	Pop!_OS 21.04 Released with New GNOME-based COSMIC Desktop http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837#comment-30104
[15:20]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[15:22]	techrights-news	#micosoft = knockoffs, vapourware, and bribed press/paid-for media coverage https://i.redd.it/495v78ir47871.png
[15:23]	techrights-news	#Games : Equinox Hunt and How We Know Were Alive http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152865 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[15:23]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Games: Equinox Hunt and How We Know We're Alive | Tux Machines
[15:24]	techrights-news	#Kernel : Networking Changes For Linux 5.14 and #Intel Stuiff http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152866 #GPL #Linux #TuxMachines
[15:24]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Kernel: Networking Changes For Linux 5.14 and Intel Stuiff | Tux Machines
[15:25]		*samiamsam (~d@c6g3yubdm3bts.irc) has joined #techrights
[15:27]		*kingoffrance (~x__@4mmu4fx6g3jvs.irc) has joined #techrights
[15:30]		*CrystalMath (~coderain@c2gpn49yybv24.irc) has joined #techrights
[15:34]		*bridge has quit (connection closed)
[15:37]		*bridge (~bridge@sp6mg7ktjfurg.irc) has joined #techrights
[15:37]		*irc.techrights.org gives channel operator status to bridge
[15:42]	CrystalMath	techrights.org seems down for me
[15:42]		*XRevan86/fn reads the backlog where CrystalMath is twisting things to fit his idea of who's a good guy again.
[15:43]	XRevan86/fn	I cannot connect to irc.techrights.org for some reason. At least the bridge's working.
[15:44]	CrystalMath	i can connect, the bridge seemed down for a bit, but techrights.org itself doesn't work
[15:44]	CrystalMath	which is a bigger problem
[15:44]	XRevan86/fn	I tried to connect, failed, then restarted the bridge and entered through freenode.
[15:48]	MinceR	my client could automatically reconnect to irc.techrights.org
[15:49]	kingoffrance	funny, i couldnt connect to irc.techrights.org for almost an hour (was AFK, just based on timestamps), now in past 20 minutes magically came back up lol
[15:49]	kingoffrance	if you wait long enough, i predict it will magically fix itself
[15:50]	kingoffrance	its the in/out crowd :D  </sarcasm>
[15:50]	CrystalMath	XRevan86: yeah i remember i was ranting something before going to sleep
[15:50]	CrystalMath	but i think it was probably at least halfway coherent
[15:52]		*alextee (~alextee@p5ururacf4pq4.irc) has joined #techrights
[15:52]	Ariadne	heh
[15:53]	MinceR	ah yes, the good old in-out-in-out
[15:55]	kingoffrance	i just mean, wait and see if everyone can get in at once, or is it going to be "split" temporarily.
[15:59]		*XRevan86 (~XRevan86@sp6mg7ktjfurg.irc) has joined #techrights
● Jun 30
[16:01]		*techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[16:01]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 28.90   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 14.71 swarm size (avg): 307.67  
[16:01]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 28.90   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 14.71 swarm size (avg): 307.67  
[16:02]		*dsfdsfsdf_ (~dfsdf@a5bsj5vwcvmvi.irc) has joined #techrights
[16:03]		*dsfdsfsdf_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:05]	Ariadne	CrystalMath: i fixed it
[16:05]	Ariadne	CrystalMath: i did not properly bifurcate my network
[16:06]	Ariadne	unfortunately, IOS-XR BGP was crashing hard due to whatever crap one of my IPv6 peers was sending it
[16:10]		*swimmer84 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[16:10]	MinceR	lol
[16:23]	Ariadne	due to a BGP path with AS 0 in it
[16:23]	Ariadne	amazing
[16:29]	XRevan86	No matter when I decide to sleep, there are risks of a hole in local logs.
[16:30]	Ariadne	blame the jackass who decided to announce AS 0 into the BGP table
[16:32]	XRevan86	https://i.ibb.co/XphVNSB/image.png
[16:38]	techrights-news	"The biggest reason why Gmail and similar email providers can not be trusted to protecting users privacy is that they can share users data if demanded by the Governments through the courts." https://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/top-private-secure-email-providers
[16:38]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxandubuntu.com | Top Private & Secure Email Providers [2021]
[16:39]		*superkuh (~superkuh@vuzt3y2s85me8.irc) has joined #techrights
[16:39]	techrights-news	Top 10 Best Linux Server Distributions in 2021 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152868
[16:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Top 10 Best Linux Server Distributions in 2021 | Tux Machines
[16:39]	techrights-news	Top Private & Secure Email Providers [2021] http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152867
[16:39]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Top Private & Secure Email Providers [2021] | Tux Machines
[16:41]	CrystalMath	Ariadne: yeah it works now
[16:41]	techrights-news	"For this blog post, Ill be introducing the GNOME and Librsvg from a newcomers perspective, aimed towards other newcomers or prospective newcomers, and going over how I chose to work on Librsvg." https://madds.hollandart.io/blog/outreachy/think/
[16:41]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-madds.hollandart.io | How I chose Librsvg and First Steps for Contributing /madds
[16:47]	techrights-news	COSMIC desktop environment makes its debut with release of Pop!_OS 21.04 Linux distribution http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152837#comment-30106
[16:47]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Pop!_OS Linux 21.04 Released with the COSMIC Desktop, Based on Ubuntu 21.04 | Tux Machines
[16:47]	schestowitz	I was goint to say the same, CrystalMath
[16:47]	schestowitz	But i assumed there was still work underway
[16:48]		*qa2 has quit (Quit: )
[16:51]	techrights-news	Google brings Chrome OS Linux support to Intel 6th Gen Skylake processors http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152783#comment-30107
[16:51]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Too little, too late: Linux app support is finally coming to Skylake Chromebooks | Tux Machines
[16:52]	techrights-news	#Google #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152869 #Linux #TuxMachines
[16:52]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines
[16:54]	techrights-news	"initial results of a first-of-its kind survey released today by Canonical, the publishers of Ubuntu." https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2021/06/30/2255898/0/en/85-of-Enterprises-Have-Yet-to-Cross-the-Chasm-to-Full-Kubernetes-and-Cloud-Native-Adoption-According-to-Industry-Global-Survey-from-Canonical.html
[16:54]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.globenewswire.com | 85% of Enterprises Have Yet to Cross the Chasm to Full
[16:55]	techrights-news	|The Next Critical Talent Shortage Wont Be Fortran" https://www.oreilly.com/radar/code-as-infrastructure/
[16:55]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.oreilly.com | Code as Infrastructure OReilly
[16:56]	techrights-news	" #Qt is looking for speakers, collaborators and industry thinkers to share their expertise and thoughts with the community in the upcoming Qt World Summit Online, November 3, 2021." https://www.qt.io/blog/call-for-presentations-for-qt-world-summit-2021
[16:56]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.qt.io | Call for Presentations for Qt World Summit 2021
[16:58]	techrights-news	"This refreshed release comes with support for Windows and Linux" https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/06/apogee-entertainment-surprise-releases-secret-agent-hd-a-remaster-of-the-90s-classic
[16:58]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Apogee Entertainment surprise releases Secret Agent HD, a remaster of the 90s classic | GamingOnLinux
[16:59]	techrights-news	#Radeon Pro Software for Enterprise 21.Q2 for Linux Driver Released - Phoronix https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Radeon-Pro-21.Q2-Linux-Driver #Phoronix #Kernel #Linux | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[16:59]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Radeon Pro Software for Enterprise 21.Q2 for Linux Driver Released - Phoronix
[16:59]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts
● Jun 30
[17:01]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 26.11   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 12.21 swarm size (avg): 307.68  
[17:02]	techrights-news	Stadia vs. Shadow Cloud Gaming: Which is better? | Android Central https://www.androidcentral.com/stadia-vs-shadow-cloud-gaming wrong way to do cross-platform for games, even if the server side runs #gnu #linux
[17:02]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.androidcentral.com | Stadia vs. Shadow Cloud Gaming: Which is better? | Android Central
[17:05]	techrights-news	#Linux 5.14 Ready With Light Sensor + Human Presence Detection For Newer AMD Laptops http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152870 #Kernel #TuxMachines
[17:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux 5.14 Ready With Light Sensor + Human Presence Detection For Newer AMD Laptops | Tux Machines
[17:06]	techrights-news	#LinuxMint Monthly News June 2021 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152871 #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines
[17:06]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Mint Monthly News June 2021 | Tux Machines
[17:08]	techrights-news	Tiny i.MX8M Mini SBC serves up mini-PCIe with PoE-enabled GbE http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-i-mx8m-mini-sbc-serves-up-mini-pcie-with-poe-enabled-gbe/ #LinuxGizmos #Hardware #Devices #GNU #Linux | more in http://schestowitz.com/2021/06/30/#latest
[17:08]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 520 @ http://linuxgizmos.com/tiny-i-mx8m-mini-sbc-serves-up-mini-pcie-with-poe-enabled-gbe/ )
[17:09]	techrights-news	#DeepinLinux Adds #Android App Support http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152872 #china
[17:09]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Deepin Linux Adds Android App Support | Tux Machines
[17:27]	Ariadne	heh
[17:28]	cybrNaut/fn	XRevan86: you mentioned a TLS 1.2 CVE yesterday.  Do you still have that link handy?  this channel is high volume so it scrolled past my buffer size
[17:30]		*DaemonFC (~daemonfc@hyvmz96nd5wc2.irc) has joined #techrights
[17:31]	DaemonFC	Amazon bumped up my orders again. I'm going to be out this evening so I canceled them and it said oh we'll try but no promises.
[17:31]	DaemonFC	They sell some things that you just can't buy in the stores.
[17:31]	DaemonFC	COVID left half the businesses in Illinois closed forever. Amazon did way better than fine.
[17:33]	kingoffrance	https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2021-3449 ?
[17:33]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-security-tracker.debian.org | CVE-2021-3449
[17:33]	cybrNaut/fn	thanks kingoffrance, that's what I was after
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[17:43]		*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
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[17:48]	DaemonFC	https://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/lake-county-news-sun/ct-lns-nerheim-appointed-judge-st-0107-20210106-iesxuk4pine5vae4e2hfukf4z4-story.html
[17:48]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.chicagotribune.com | Former Lake County States Attorney Michael Nerheim appointed to judgeship - Chicago Tribune
[17:49]	DaemonFC	Right after being voted out of office, they appointed him as a judge, where he can't be voted out unless he loses a retention question years from now.
[17:50]	DaemonFC	The crooks and liars who run this county just can't be stopped. You smack them down one place and they just pop up somewhere else.
[17:52]	DaemonFC	It's whack a mole.
[17:53]	DaemonFC	You lose an election and get a promotion. Judge outranks prosecutor because the judge ultimately decides what happens.
[17:54]	DaemonFC	schestowitz, I guess I'll ship my computer today.
[17:54]	DaemonFC	The NTFS support in Linux seems to have gotten better. I backed everything up just in case.
[17:55]	DaemonFC	I hope they can fix it quickly. Lenovo says 10-15 days turnaround, but some people say they didn't get their computer back for a month or more. At some point, Lenovo says if they can't fix it they just send you a new computer.
[17:55]	DaemonFC	If it's taking too long or you keep complaining that they didn't fix it and they grow tired of tearing it apart and trying to figure it out.
[17:56]	DaemonFC	I did a Zoom test call on my laptop with Fedora and it seems to work okay.
[17:56]	DaemonFC	I doubt this one will be in the repair bay by September 13th, but I also have a doctor visit on July 12th.
[17:57]	DaemonFC	Missing that wouldn't get me contempt of court, but he's a good doctor.
[17:57]	DaemonFC	He's getting kind of up there though. I hope he doesn't retire for a while. It's like everything else. All of the smart people, all of the ones who do a good job and care, they're retiring.
[17:58]	DaemonFC	Even down to the truck drivers. CNN reports that gas stations will run out of gas soon because nobody wants to work anymore.
[17:58]	DaemonFC	The ones that are old just said "That's enough of this." and retired and now they can't get gas to the gas stations to meet peak demand.
● Jun 30
[18:01]	DaemonFC	schestowitz, I'm wondering about lightweight virtualization on Linux.
[18:02]	DaemonFC	I'm not aware of any distributions that have a feature that truly wall off the browser into a dedicated browsing environment.
[18:03]	DaemonFC	Except maybe Chrome OS.
[18:05]	DaemonFC	https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/30/investing/robinhood-trading-fine-finra/index.html
[18:05]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Robinhood slapped with biggest-ever penalty by Wall Street regulator - CNN
[18:05]	DaemonFC	LOL
[18:06]		*rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[18:06]	DaemonFC	The "trading app" got hit with a record $70 million fine from the federal government for illegally locking traders out to stop their own losses.
[18:06]		*liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[18:08]	kingoffrance	i dont know about lightweight, but isnt that somewhat what stuff like https://www.qubes-os.org/  is about?    sectioning various things off into compartments.  theres a couple such os
[18:08]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.qubes-os.org | Qubes OS: A reasonably secure operating system | Qubes OS
[18:09]	DaemonFC	All of these app CEOs think they're above the law and will remain that way forever.
[18:09]	kingoffrance	whenever hw virtualization became prevalent, a couple such os appeared IIRC
[18:09]	DaemonFC	Governments are tightening the noose on Bitcoin and people go right on trading it.
[18:10]	kingoffrance	i mean, i have no idea if those are meant for non-admins, or people who dont want to tinker with things, etc.
[18:10]	kingoffrance	just that they exist
[18:10]	DaemonFC	Mexico just locked out their banks from conducting any transactions involving crypto and China cut off the power to the part of the world with the most "mining" because they realize that not only does it threaten their own economy, but it also wastes a lot of electricity.
[18:11]	DaemonFC	The UK is banning entire exchanges now.
[18:11]	kingoffrance	and you could basically do such on any distro perhaps, just "manually"
[18:11]	DaemonFC	The trend is towards more regulations and maybe even bans, so this crypto bubble is completely unraveling and the only reason it hasn't popped entirely is because people are trying to pump it still.
[18:12]	DaemonFC	Governments that normally don't want to work together on much at all, all realize that they'll lose their collective control over the world's transactions if they don't work together to fight off crypto.
[18:13]	DaemonFC	So they are. It may not look coordinated, but it is.
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[18:14]	kingoffrance	really, stuff like openbsd pf you could make rules for a user IIRC, and give separate apps separate user/group/homedir/etc.   just "manually" is perhaps a bit of work;   freebsd jails, etc.   even without virtualization, "manual" is perhaps better than nothing, if you have the time/patience to set it all up
[18:14]	kingoffrance	i guess its "containers" nowadays
[18:14]	DaemonFC	Between trading and crypto, if it looks like this is all an attempt to take us back to fiat money-only and the state of trading before apps, that's because that's what this is.
[18:15]	DaemonFC	They want this to be inside baseball stuff where you need to go through them to conduct research and execute orders.
[18:15]	kingoffrance	i always wanted to play with that https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/authpf.html#shell  but never had a use-case
[18:15]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.openbsd.org | OpenBSD PF: User Shell for Authenticating Gateways (authpf)
[18:15]	DaemonFC	Retail banking shows very little profit these days. Most of the profits on deposit banking are fines and fees that they can cook up.
[18:16]	DaemonFC	The real estate market is now on the verge of another 2008-style collapse.
[18:16]	DaemonFC	schestowitz, The CDC and Illinois say the eviction moratorium ends on July 31st.
[18:16]	DaemonFC	So everyone in Illinois (and most of the country for that matter) who hasn't become current on their rent, is liable to be evicted August 1st or later.
[18:17]	DaemonFC	It'll really be at whatever pace their local sheriff can enforce it.
[18:17]	DaemonFC	Some will be that day, some will be months later.
[18:17]	DaemonFC	But it's finally going to happen.
[18:17]		*lockeanarchist (~lockeanarchist@dbx7zd6rdshfe.irc) has joined #techrights
[18:17]	kingoffrance	i mean, distros wall off "daemons" this way is common for a long time, to give different daemons different users/groups/etc.   you can do that with any program, if you have the patience to set it up
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[18:26]	kingoffrance	" all realize that they'll lose their collective control over the world's transactions if they don't work together to fight off crypto."   i dunno, i thought some gov wanted their own eventually, or there are lots of articles kept saying that.   fight off anything they dont authorize, yes.
[18:28]	kingoffrance	lots of that probably hype, but im not sure they want to kill of all crypto coins, just eventually replace the non-gov ones
[18:29]	kingoffrance	*that is   *off
[18:31]	DaemonFC	Yes, and the architecture of NT is deficient in that way too.
[18:31]	DaemonFC	The system services either have a lot of permissions or they don't have many at all.
[18:32]	DaemonFC	Microsoft went a "different" way with isolation of permissions with levels of "integrity", and for legacy reasons you can't really contain many of the ones that were already there at the time (2006).
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[18:54]	leah	worst thing ever: you wake up, and want coffee but there is no milk
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[18:55]	leah	schestowitz: i'll have to think about what you've advised earlier. thanks again for the chats. sorry i had to duck out earlier, was very tired
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[19:00]	techrights-ipfs-bot	   IPFS downstream, 60 mins: avg(k/sec) 29.45   IPFS upstream: avg(k/sec) 30.03 swarm size (avg): 307.76  
[19:05]	MinceR	30 185049 < DaemonFC> The crooks and liars who run this county just can't be stopped. You smack them down one place and they just pop up somewhere else.
[19:05]	MinceR	they can be stopped with a revolution
[19:12]		*DaemonFC (~daemonfc@rs9rjg3ve4y6a.irc) has joined #techrights
[19:17]	Ariadne	good to see that robinhood got smacked by a FINRA fine
[19:17]	Ariadne	their operation is really sketch
[19:19]	MinceR	they're not the only trading platform that manipulates the stock market though
[19:19]	DaemonFC	The appeals court let Bill Cosby out of prison.
[19:19]	MinceR	30 200540 < MinceR> 30 185049 < DaemonFC> The crooks and liars who run this county just can't be stopped. You smack them down one place and they just pop up somewhere else.
[19:20]	MinceR	30 200545 < MinceR> they can be stopped with a revolution
[19:20]	DaemonFC	But we're going after Ryan for a traffic violation that the cops didn't even see.
[19:20]	DaemonFC	MinceR, It's a good old boys club.
[19:20]	DaemonFC	The promotion tocircuit judge was a golden parachute after he lost the State's Attorney election.
[19:21]	DaemonFC	It's a giant middle finger to democracy. The public voted him out and there he was again, days later, as a judge this time.
[19:21]	DaemonFC	Not to be outdone, MinceR 
[19:22]	DaemonFC	I tried to contact my defense attorney from 2019 to represent me over this traffic bullshit.
[19:22]	DaemonFC	Found out he's an assistant State's Attorney now.
[19:22]	DaemonFC	So I can't talk to him because he's the enemy.
[19:23]	DaemonFC	<Ariadne> their operation is really sketch
[19:24]	DaemonFC	Yes, most of their money comes from fees charged to intermediaries. I won't pretend to understand it.
[19:24]	DaemonFC	Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.
[19:24]	DaemonFC	Like most "financial products", they assemble them in ways that torture logic and rational understanding.
[19:30]		*AdmFubar (~mradmin@ngqaam7baxnug.irc) has joined #techrights
[19:30]	AdmFubar	https://www.alternet.org/2021/06/wannabe-aristocrats/
[19:30]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-The obscenely rich of the 21st century are exposed as wannabe aristocrats - Alternet.org
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[21:03]	immibis	is IPFS actually useful?
[21:05]	schestowitz	yes
[21:05]	schestowitz	today we had outages
[21:07]	immibis	what's the practical difference between having someone mirror your site on IPFS, and having two servers?
[21:07]	schestowitz	decentralised
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[21:23]	phobos/fn	Bill Cosby was released from prison after an appeals court vacated his conviction
[21:23]		*rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[21:24]	schestowitz	who next?
[21:24]		*liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[21:24]	phobos/fn	https://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-cosby-released-prison-conviction-vacated/story?id=78582000
[21:24]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-abcnews.go.com | Bill Cosby released from prison after conviction vacated - ABC News
[21:24]	phobos/fn	In this case, it sounds like the judges felt that evidence was either illegally obtained or was twisted into something else
[21:24]	bagira/fn	isnt it weird how all these people who were torn down under similar stories are all getting vindicated later
[21:25]	phobos/fn	Trying to get a copy of the ruling to see what the exact grounds for vacating is
[21:26]	bagira/fn	speaking of which, lord_bagira continues to womp stomp open source snake ass on twitter: https://twitter.com/lord_bagira
[21:26]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 400 @ https://mobile.twitter.com/lord_bagira )
[21:26]	phobos/fn	bagira: I'm not all together sure some of the evidence used against people wasn't manufactured... after all, what rape victim follows the alleged perp around for months or years across a country to attend every event and give them gifts?
[21:28]	phobos/fn	ah, I see. Cosby admitted to doing a few of the crimes in a deposition, but the cache was he would admit some liability in a civil case if the ADA did not prosecute...
[21:28]	phobos/fn	And the ADA successor broke the agreement and then leveled more charges... so the court ruled the trial never should have happened due to the broken agreement
[21:29]	bagira/fn	classic malfeascance.  make a deal to get him to plead guilty to shit he didn't do, then prosecute him using his relenting to the deal as evidence
[21:30]	phobos/fn	Sounds like it to me. The only winners were the accusers which couldn't wait to file civil suits after the guilty verdict
[21:30]	phobos/fn	I think some of them are still going on today
[21:30]	bagira/fn	yep
[21:30]	bagira/fn	meanwhile someone's been in prison over it and has their reputation and legacy dismantled over the accusations
[21:31]	bagira/fn	same kind of shit we're seeing in f/oss these last few years just completely offline
[21:31]	phobos/fn	and in politics all over North America
[21:31]	bagira/fn	yes
[21:31]	bagira/fn	hollywood particularly got hit hard a few years back
[21:31]	phobos/fn	Canada just passed an 'online hate speech' act
[21:32]	phobos/fn	I'm sorry, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone in Bollywood
[21:32]	phobos/fn	They all know what kind of back stabbing goes on there and they opt to stay
[21:33]	bagira/fn	Matt Garrett has been trying to pull that shit with me, his tactic is a little different, he will make vague allusions of which a reasonable person can only conclude are illegal acts, and then let the crowd make the formal accusation to try to obscure his liability since he knows i've got two litigators preparing to spitroast him
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[21:33]	bagira/fn	problem with that guy is he's built up an occult following from his previous smear campaigns
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[21:34]	phobos/fn	Who is Matt Garrett? Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not familiar with the new batch of MS paid FOSS astroturfers
[21:34]	bagira/fn	on the plus side while it's unfolding he's the perfect honeypot for identify who these people are
[21:34]	bagira/fn	*identifying
[21:35]	bagira/fn	and collecting their names into one place for exposure of how these campaigns work and who participates in them, and what that looks like
[21:36]	bagira/fn	phobos, matthew garrett is that wikipedia friendly that used to work on the kernel before he disgraced himself by association with the ada initiative, played a key role in the targeting of both jacob appelbaum and RMS
[21:36]	bagira/fn	and others
[21:36]	bagira/fn	more is coming out every day
[21:38]	bagira/fn	he was also involved in trying to inject a microsoft advantage into the kernel before that and got caught doing it
[21:39]	bagira/fn	"unofficial FAANG special ops"
● Jun 30
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[22:21]	bagira/fn	dude is motivated though, like, from my perspective if he were to just retract and apologize for the smears, i'd consider forgetting about it and moving on, but he seems pretty determined not to do that
[22:22]	schestowitz	it is a waste of time
[22:22]	schestowitz	move on, get things done
[22:22]	schestowitz	on to another topic:
[22:22]	schestowitz	we're about to release some EPO expose
[22:22]	schestowitz	tomorrow most likely
[22:22]	bagira/fn	EPO?
[22:22]	schestowitz	just before Friday's heating
[22:22]	schestowitz	we need to keep the site online at all time
[22:23]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/EPO
[22:23]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | EPO - Techrights
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[22:42]	Ariadne	fwiw i dont plan to do the router intervention until next weekend
[22:42]	Ariadne	our current configuration is suboptimal but ive had enough drama for now
[22:43]	AdmFubar	https://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.com/2021/06/30/ibm_email_outage/
[22:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.com | IBM's 18-month company-wide email system migration has been a disaster, sources say The Register
[22:44]	Ariadne	i wish whoever announced AS 0 into the default free zone a very go fuck yourself
[22:44]	Ariadne	hey bagira since you are here when will i be able to use ircclown with freenode
[22:45]	AdmFubar	https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210629/07341847082/ohio-republicans-forced-to-back-off-unpopular-ban-community-broadband.shtml
[22:45]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Ohio Republicans Forced To Back Off Unpopular Ban On Community Broadband | Techdirt
[22:47]	bagira/fn	ariadne -- ask the staff, i dont work here
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[22:48]	Ariadne	i did they just talk about remotes.irc.com
[22:48]	bagira/fn	idgaf what they told you
[22:55]	MinceR	https://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/roman.png   ( https://explosm.net/comics/1099/ )
[22:55]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Cyanide & Happiness (Explosm.net)
[22:57]	XRevan86	https://www.linux.org.ru/forum/talks/16394638?cid=16394754 "NoGNU/Linux" :D
[22:57]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linux.org.ru | Linux GNU Talks 
[22:59]	MinceR	:)
● Jun 30
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[23:09]	schestowitz	XRevan86: what does that say?
[23:09]	schestowitz	I've just recorded a 32-min video btw
[23:09]	schestowitz	re EPO
[23:09]		*cbrtrnx[m] (~cbrtrnxma@2001:470:69fc:105::3f7a) has joined #techrights
[23:09]	schestowitz	Ariadne: the EPO is in shambles now
[23:09]	schestowitz	but they bribe the media and law firms are afraid to speak out
[23:10]	XRevan86	schestowitz: seiken replies to a question that goes "what is Stallman's position on this?" with "he will insist that this should be called "NoGNU/Linux" and not just "Linux"" in a topic about a distribution that doesn't include GNU software called Iglunix.
[23:12]	Ariadne	i define GNU/Linux as using glibc and implementing the LSB
[23:12]	Ariadne	thats the only definition that actually makes sense
[23:12]	XRevan86	SomeGNU/Linux :)
[23:12]	Ariadne	because it means something: a program compiled for GNU/Linux is compatible with other GNU/Linuxes
[23:14]	Phanes/fn	not necessarily
[23:15]	Phanes/fn	thats why lsb was introduced
[23:15]	Ariadne	well even with lsb theres still incompatibilities :(
[23:15]	Phanes/fn	because everybody stopped working together
[23:15]	Phanes/fn	and stopped caring about cross-distro standards
[23:15]	Phanes/fn	FHS is another
[23:15]	Ariadne	now days its systemd/linux
[23:15]	Ariadne	:)))))
[23:16]	Ariadne	lennart is making gnu/linux great again
[23:17]	schestowitz	he makes it.. different
[23:17]	sepsinn	lol
[23:18]	schestowitz	I hope IBM's actions will enlighten the non-critics
[23:18]	schestowitz	IBM works only for IBM
[23:18]	schestowitz	[11:47] <techrights-news> #redhat is no longer a "Linux company". It's an IBM company and it acts accordingly. http://techrights.org/2021/03/28/ibm-and-rms-incompatible/
[23:18]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IBM and RMS Are Not Compatible | Techrights
[23:18]	schestowitz	(hours ago
[23:18]	schestowitz	zoobab said that Red Hat was hoarding software patents, including on systemd, to inflate the sale value
[23:19]	schestowitz	IBM uses software patents aggressively
[23:19]	schestowitz	the vendor lockin was 'added value'
[23:19]	schestowitz	openshift, ansible, systemd, podman...
[23:19]	schestowitz	that helps them sell support for things they know best and can fix for clients
[23:19]	Phanes/fn	yeah RH has been playing a little dirty in the container space the last few years
[23:19]	schestowitz	they don't want a gnu/linux as commodity
[23:20]	schestowitz	with kvm, puppet, upstart etc.
[23:20]	Phanes/fn	its a single product market for the most part and thats a market vulnerability not a profit point for them
[23:20]	schestowitz	now we have clients asking things like, do you know how to do ansible?
[23:21]	Phanes/fn	yep
[23:21]	schestowitz	because some people have cladded their infra with this stuff
[23:21]	schestowitz	and so we need to learn IBM OSPS
[23:21]	Phanes/fn	oh im in that space i have to live it
[23:21]	schestowitz	(OpenSourceProprietarySoftware)
[23:22]	Phanes/fn	i was kind of hoping they'd pull an apple and go so far off from what the market was doing that they didn't matter
[23:22]		*alextee has quit (connection closed)
[23:22]	Phanes/fn	but this OCI thing from burns was potentially a nail in the coffin for that semi-monopoly
[23:23]	Phanes/fn	they just dont realize it yet
[23:24]	Phanes/fn	RH's product management has never been terribly informed
[23:24]	Phanes/fn	so they may just drive off a cliff suddenly chasing the shiny
[23:25]	Phanes/fn	then goofs like perrin at MSFT are in the same boat, they just don't have the skills to be working those roles and are banking off the entity visibility to coast, without realizing they're the best unaware double agent that foss can have
[23:26]	Ariadne	have to say containers has been a wild ride
[23:26]	Phanes/fn	all the faang corps are vulnerable right now and dont realize it
[23:27]	schestowitz	some operate at a loss
[23:27]	schestowitz	google clown engine, 6 billion dollars operating losses
[23:27]	schestowitz	not sure if annual or quarterly
[23:27]	schestowitz	azure also a failure
[23:27]	schestowitz	they said they'd beat aws... by 2017 :-)
[23:27]	schestowitz	aws was not profitable until some years ago
[23:27]	schestowitz	now they overcharge people who are locked in
[23:27]	Phanes/fn	gcp did ok, better than azure
[23:28]	schestowitz	6 billion in losses
[23:28]	Phanes/fn	azure sucks gigantic donkey balls in pretty much every platform attribute besides their native services / composite services offerings
[23:28]	schestowitz	https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/02/google-cloud-lost-5-6b-in-2020/
[23:28]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google Cloud lost $5.6B in 2020 TechCrunch
[23:28]	schestowitz	annual
[23:28]	schestowitz	not quartedly
[23:28]	schestowitz	*quarerly if was maybe this bad years prior
[23:29]	schestowitz	but they kept it secret
[23:29]	Ariadne	all of those cloud things are a scam
[23:29]	schestowitz	"public" company, secret finances
[23:29]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2020/07/23/microsoft-defrauding-again/
[23:29]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft is Defrauding Its Shareholders While Laying Off About 5,000 Workers | Techrights
[23:29]	Phanes/fn	not really
[23:29]	schestowitz	Ariadne: what is clown?
[23:29]	schestowitz	everything.
[23:29]	schestowitz	now "edge"
[23:29]	schestowitz	and "iot"
[23:29]	schestowitz	with "ai"
[23:29]	Phanes/fn	you can do big shit on aws
[23:29]	schestowitz	(i.e. code)
[23:29]	Ariadne	edge is good actually
[23:29]	Phanes/fn	gcp has some capability
[23:30]	Ariadne	edge is the market swinging back to sanity
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[23:30]	Phanes/fn	"edge" is a marketing concept not an architecture concept
[23:30]	Ariadne	right exactly
[23:30]	schestowitz	I heard they worked to make server hardware more expensive
[23:30]	schestowitz	so that companies stop self-hosting
[23:30]	schestowitz	and outsource instea
[23:30]	Ariadne	edge is basically marketing the idea of running your own infra again
[23:30]	Phanes/fn	....no it is not
[23:30]	schestowitz	that would help the mass surveillance (by centralisation of everything) agenda
[23:30]	Ariadne	yeah it basically is
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[23:31]	schestowitz	LF does lots of "edge" marketing
[23:31]	schestowitz	I mentioned this in the video I'm uploading at the moment
[23:31]	Phanes/fn	IOT is falling out of favor except with the monoliths where they hardcoded it into billing identifiers
[23:31]	MinceR	"edge" on your desktop, "edge" in your pocket
[23:31]	Phanes/fn	they just the shit for different things and keep it under the old umbrella
[23:32]	Phanes/fn	re-use
[23:33]	Ariadne	i mean its all bullshit marketing but i would like to see servers back in offices
[23:33]	Ariadne	where they belong
[23:33]	schestowitz	yup
[23:33]	Ariadne	instead of processing peoples data on god knows what cloud
[23:33]	schestowitz	well, which office?
[23:33]	schestowitz	first we got rid of our server
[23:33]	schestowitz	and whole rack
[23:33]	Ariadne	the office of the company i am doing business with
[23:33]	schestowitz	then the office, due to covid
[23:33]	Ariadne	:p
[23:33]	Ariadne	idk shove it in somebodys house and get them a metro ethernet connection
[23:34]	schestowitz	yes, that would be nice
[23:34]	schestowitz	also cheaper, collectively
[23:34]	schestowitz	upload speeds are sucky by design
[23:34]	schestowitz	so it takes me hours to upload one video...
[23:34]		*rianne_ (~rianne@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[23:34]	Ariadne	point is i want my data processed on hardware controlled by the company processing my data
[23:35]	Ariadne	that should be the goal
[23:35]	Ariadne	and ideally that company should use free software to do it
[23:35]	Ariadne	so that i can audit it if i wish
[23:35]	schestowitz	that's the goal
[23:35]	schestowitz	fsf should speak more about it
[23:35]	schestowitz	hours ago:  How your support fuels the #GNU #GPL http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/152885 #fsf
[23:35]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | How your support fuels the GNU GPL | Tux Machines
[23:36]	Ariadne	anyway people i know are working on that in alpine community and that gets marketed by LF and others as edge
[23:36]	schestowitz	I'm 'at work' at the moment
[23:36]	schestowitz	will post links when my shift is over
[23:36]		*liberty_box (~liberty@22e8m8t4gqjin.irc) has joined #techrights
[23:36]	Ariadne	but as phanes notes
[23:36]	schestowitz	Ariadne: until they shift to another buzzword
[23:36]	Ariadne	thats really just some marketing bullshit
[23:36]	schestowitz	"fog computing" caught on for a while
[23:36]	Ariadne	yep i remember that
[23:36]	schestowitz	MinceR and I said that ~7 years ago as a joke
[23:37]	schestowitz	then it became a real thing
[23:37]	schestowitz	"fog computing" 
[23:37]	schestowitz	so we rolled on to CLOWN computing
[23:37]	schestowitz	I doubt anyone will want to make THAT a REAL thing
[23:37]	schestowitz	unless the circus with animals in it makes a comeback
[23:38]	MinceR	what, they seriously call something "fog computing" now?
[23:38]	schestowitz	or if l0de gets something going with that clownfest of his
[23:38]	l0de/fn	What clownfest
[23:38]	l0de/fn	ircclown?
[23:38]	schestowitz	MinceR: they did around 2017-2018
[23:38]	schestowitz	l0de regard that
[23:38]	Phanes/fn	the last time I saw actual innovation happening at the platform design level SOA was still a commonly used architectural style
[23:38]	schestowitz	as another domain to register
[23:38]	l0de/fn	I believe jwhaere has copyrighted ircclown
[23:39]	l0de/fn	I'm using that service right now as my bouncer
[23:39]	schestowitz	lol
[23:39]	Phanes/fn	MSA was supposed to replace it but ended up just being SOA minus a bus
[23:39]	schestowitz	anyway, that would be trademarked
[23:39]	schestowitz	you cannot copyright a word
[23:40]	schestowitz	also, trademarks cost $
[23:40]	l0de/fn	v true, I spoke in error
[23:40]	schestowitz	(USPTO charges a lot for them)
[23:40]	l0de/fn	yes, ircclown generates $5 a month from each user
[23:40]	Phanes/fn	x20000 less suddenly this month
[23:40]	l0de/fn	which Jwhaere spends mostly on gold chains, car rims, and paying people to ghostwrite diss raps for his beef with andrew lee
[23:40]	MinceR	schestowitz: lol
[23:41]	schestowitz	we need to mock buzzwords
[23:41]	schestowitz	it's the only way to defeat them
[23:41]	schestowitz	so that schools don't teach 'apps'
[23:41]	l0de/fn	There's a natural cycle of linguistic churn that any individual is usually powerless to significantly change
[23:41]	schestowitz	and instead teach programming, sys admin, diagnosis
[23:41]	l0de/fn	Only large media figures can generally wield language in that way
[23:41]	schestowitz	they used to teach GUIs (e.g. Office)
[23:41]	schestowitz	then Java
[23:41]	schestowitz	then stuff like frameworks
[23:42]	Phanes/fn	they pretty much are already by all levels of most organizations besides CIO/CTOs because its the only way to appear to know how technology works when all they know is how to read gartner reports designed to exploit them
[23:42]	schestowitz	which are usually GUIs with abstractions that less <5 years
[23:42]	MinceR	https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED715/5b4c82823f0d6.jpeg
[23:42]	schestowitz	we need SBCs in every classroom
[23:42]	Phanes/fn	(re: buzzwords being made fun of)
[23:42]	schestowitz	give the pupils programming assignments
[23:42]	schestowitz	the programmable boards are expensive, a raspi is cheap
[23:43]	Phanes/fn	what i dont understand is how gartner still has any credibility left after about 10 years of calling the wrong shot over and over, and over and over
[23:43]	Phanes/fn	like they literally cannot seem to pick a winning horse
[23:43]	schestowitz	MinceR: yes, I think we used that in techrights at one point
[23:43]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Gartner_Group
[23:43]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Gartner Group - Techrights
[23:44]	schestowitz	I met with a Swiss and French TV crew to do footage on Gartner
[23:44]	schestowitz	a documentary on what scammers they are
[23:44]	schestowitz	they even paid me for the time
[23:44]	Phanes/fn	nice
[23:44]	Phanes/fn	yeah need more of that in the public consciousness
[23:44]	schestowitz	they have capital
[23:45]	schestowitz	so they control a lot of media and perceptions
[23:45]	Phanes/fn	i dont know if companies would by it without a huge amount of publicity around it though because if gartner goes away it'll create an entire caste of executive across the skyline that is cut off from their only semi-credible source of market intel with no skills to do anything on their own for the most part
[23:45]	Phanes/fn	*buy
[23:45]	schestowitz	http://techrights.org/2009/08/23/gartner-group-censorship-intimidation/
[23:45]		-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Gartner Group Shows Its True Colours Censors Reporters | Techrights