Bonum Certa Men Certa

When Electronic (or Digital) is Objectively Worse

posted by Roy Schestowitz on Apr 05, 2024,
updated Apr 05, 2024

Old Wooden Radio with some Books on a side, Spider Web in a corner

And the case of Trainline

AT moderate risk of sounding like a grumpy ol' man, as a child I was able to approach people, as in face-to-face situations, and sort out disputes or issues. Later they gave people phone numbers and over time even the phone numbers mostly led to voice menus. In recent times they keep telling you some Web site URL while you wait and wait.

Resolving disputes has become hard because of a lack of human contact, not just in the physical sense. You get thrown into some callcentres of 'ticket mills' wherein each person you speak to is new and unfamiliar with your case. You therefore need to explain the same things over and over again.

Case of point?

Our train got canceled last Monday. Why? They didn't want to tell (at first), but eventually they admitted it was known for quite some time it would be canceled and nobody bothered to inform passengers who had booked tickets.

What followed was a request for a refund, but that too (as usual) was a familiar ordeal, so I decided to document this today.

Had the tickets been purchased at the station (like in the old days), we'd physically get the refund on the spot, rather than having to escalate to a manager who insists we must do it all "online". After speaking to 4 people on the day (of the cancellation) - speaking as in face to face - we needed to do E-mail back and forth about a dozen times. So "modern", eh?

Nowadays there are times you cannot even purchase tickets at the stop/station as there is no staff there. PROGRESS!

Now we have two irritated customers, 4 members of staff spending time on it, and maybe another 4 at the customer disservice centre. Total 10 people? How do these companies define "productivity"? Time getting nothing done?

Trainline

Trainline pretty much hides essential contact details. Its site does not help you find who to contact, instead trying to herd you into spyware ("apps"). I had to sign for some online service just to contact Trainline by proxy. I had to provide personal details to this proxy. Was this going to work? Would I receive the refund quickly? No.

And moreover, now some third party has some personal details of mine as well. Reward for companies trying to deny/obscure access to contact details?

Two people at our end were needed and even a reconfiguration of the E-mail client. What a hassle. Redacted trail of communications below:

Our train was canceled and Northern Rail, where we spoke to 3 people including a manager, told us that you basically sold us an invalid ticket for as route that was already canceled (due to works around Wigan) and thus we're entitled to a full refund. We canceled our trip to xxxxxxxx, after consulting station staff. Can you reschedule the same journey for another holiday (when we take a day off work)?

Trainline:

Dear Roy, Good Morning to you. I understand your concern about refund . Please do not worry , we are here for your assistance. May I please have the 12 digit transaction id number to check and assist you further as there are no bookings under your existing email address. Awaiting your response. Kind Regards,
Vinitha

Me:

Payment information

Transaction ID:

xxxxx

Transaction Date:

17 March 2024

Invoice number:

xxxx

Regards,

Trainline:

Hello Roy,

Thank you for contacting Trainline, Hope you are doing well.

I understand your concern regarding the refund as the train was cancelled .Please accept our sincere apologize for the inconvenience you may have experienced with regards to cancellations.

Having searched under your e-mail address [xxxxx], I am unable to locate the booking you have quoted in your e-mail. In order to comply with Identification and Verification (Data Protection) Policies, I am not able to discuss any booking or passenger details with anyone else except for the person who has booked the ticket.

In order to progress with your enquiry:

• If you have used another e-mail address to make the booking, please contact us from it
• If you didn't make the booking yourself, please advise the person who did to contact us directly from the e-mail used for the booking.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards,
Prince .

I passed this to my wife Rianne, whose E-mail was used to do the booking.

Rianne:

Hi, Prince,

I am Roy's wife, I booked as xxxxxx

See below the context

[...]

Trainline:

Hello Prince,

Thank you for contacting Trainline. I hope you are doing well.

Please elaborate your query so that I can help you accordingly. Once I receive a response, hopefully I will be be able to help you accordingly.

Awaiting your response.

Kind regards,
Haritha

Rianne:

Prince is your colleague

You clearly did not bother reading the context below

Please do

See xxxxxx

Trainline: (still calling her "Prince", which is actually a Trainline colleague)

Hello Prince,

Thank you for your email response.

I understand that your are looking for a refund on the cancelled journey. I apologize for the cancellation and I will certainly help you with the refund.

On reviewing the booking details under the reference ID: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, I see that the booking is made using different email address.

In order to comply with Identification and Verification (Data Protection) Policies I request you to contact us with the registered email address.

Thank you for understanding.

Kind regards,
Haritha

So she had to reconfigure Thunderbird to use an alias.

Rianne:

> Policies I request you to contact us with the registered
> email address.

DONE

xxxxxxxxxxxxx is
same as xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I am now using
xxxxxxxx

I needed to step in because they were slow and it was already taking over 3 days to get the refund a station manager assured us we would get:

My wife responded already!

Be sure to check your TICKETING system (xxxxx).

You already ruined out holiday by selling invalid tickets.

Do not ruin our week too!

The E-mail headers reveal they use something called Freshdesk with Freshworks in place of real E-mail, which might explain why they're unable to properly cope with context and they always top-post. One has to repeat oneself even in E-mail, not just over the telephone. That's irritating and discourages even bothering in the future.

Trainline:

Dear Rianne,

Thank you for contacting Trainline. I hope you are doing well.

I understand your concern regarding a refund and would like to apologize for the inconvenience caused because of service cancellation. Please be assured I am here to help you in the best way.

On reviewing your journey details under the transaction ID: xxxxxx , I can see your journey is from Manchester Piccadilly to Lancaster on Mon, 01 Apr 2024 (returning on the same day).

On checking the service cancellation for your journey, I can verify that your outward service was cancelled. In accordance to this, I request you to kindly confirm if you travelled on any alternative service using the same ticket purchased from Trainline or if you abandoned your journey.

Awaiting your response.

Kind regards,
Eliphia- Customer Service Representative

Rianne:

As my husband explained, and it is ridiculous we need like 10 emails back and forth to get this refund, no - the station manager said we should demand the full refund from you

Today is Friday. The canceled train was Monday. This is still unresolved.

In summary, I had to sign up in some site to be able to find contact details, E-mail clients had to be modified, two people at our end needed to get involved, we spoke to 4 people at the station, and above there are about 10 messages back and forth - and still not solving the issue.

Welcome to the "modern" world. It is SO MUCH easier!

Other Recent Techrights' Posts

Saying "No" is Not a Bad Thing
Society benefits from people who say "No!" even when it seems impolite (and possibly inconvenient) to say so
Next Week's "Bloodbath" at Microsoft Includes "Silent Layoffs" (Which Microsoft Won't Count)
The notion of "silent layoffs" is fast becoming the "new normal"
XBox Being Discontinued, Some Models of XBox Canceled, Not on Sale Anymore
First some of the largest retailers quit stocking/selling XBox, now a 2TB model is axed
Firehose of Spam (Fake News) From The Register MS Today
This is how awful the state of news sites really is
 
Links 27/06/2026: More Restrictions on Social Control Media and Russia is Leveraging Cellebrite/Back Doors
Links for the day
Akira Urushibata on the Likely False (Unverifiable) Claims Anthropic Makes About Defects for Marketing/Hype
Some pro-LLM person has managed to derail the discussion on this topic
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: "Team Campinos" in Split
The EPO team was of course headed by Campinos himself who delivered a "forward-looking" keynote speech to the assembled audience consisting mainly of Administrative Council delegates from the national IP offices
Supporting Women in the Free Software Community
The common theme here is abuse of women
Left IBM After Many Years, Came to Microsoft/XBox, Now Silent Layoffs at XBox
many inside XBox will have their last day next week
Gemini Links 27/06/2026: Homeworlds and Tarot Cards
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, June 26, 2026
IRC logs for Friday, June 26, 2026
Links 26/06/2026: SoftBank Forbids Mentioning That Slop is a Scam, "'We Need Courageous People' to Combat Greed and Corruption"
Links for the day
Gemini Links 26/06/2026: "Negativity of Reddit" and "Moving Blog to Gemini"
Links for the day
Same MIT Site That Fabricated the Fake News for IBM is Still Being Paid to Produce Fake "Reports" That Prop Up a Ponzi Scheme
If this is the media we deserve as a society and believe keeps us informed, then we are all doomed
'Social' Slop: The Social Control Media and Slop Crises Are Converging
Social Control Media and slop may have a shared fate. People will shun them both.
Union Syndicale Fédérale (USF) Speaks Out Against Campinos and Informs the Chairman of the EPO Administrative Council
Does Mr. Kratochvíl pay any attention at all?
'António the Pretender' Campinos is Digging His Own Grave With Grotesque Lobbying Intended to Undermine Democracy in Europe's Second-Largest Institution
One way or another, the EPO will never be the same again
The Principle of "Do No Harm"
"Do No Harm" is a common saying
After Years of Bluewashing People Who Are Still Labelled "Red Hat" Suddenly 'Leave' (Might be PIPs), IBM in "Forever Layoffs" Loop
Remember that Red Hat had mass layoffs this year
Microsoft Staff Bracing for Impact Ahead of "Layoffs Lottery"
some people start to assess who will get culled next
Donald Trump and IBM's CEO: Twins Separated at Birth, Saturating the Media With False Reports About Things That Don't Exist
Every "journalist" that went ahead with this fake news should be sacked on the spot for a rejection of fact-checking
The Register MS Will Become Indistinguishable From Spamfarms at This Current Pace
Follow the money...
Microsoft Layoffs Have Already Begun in Its PR Department
It is called Waggener Edstrom
Techrights Community as Litigants in Person (LIPs)
Unwittingly and due to circumstances we're had to step in to protect women abused by monstrous men who lack empathy
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: Rest and Recuperation on the Adriatic Coast
The EPO President's connections with the Croatian SIPO date back to his days as head of the EU trademark agency EUIPO
Slopfarms Becoming Scarce and Few (or Inactive)
we'll try to refrain from even giving the remaining slopfarms any visibility
The Register MS Promotes Things That Do Not Exist... for Money
How much more ZTE spam will come out before 5PM?
Links 26/06/2026: RIP, Om Malik, 1966-2026
Links for the day
Memory Leaks Suck
Slop ('vibe') coding means lots of bad programs
Natural Disasters and Personal Disasters
Thank you, Om Malik, for the positive memories
Gemini Links 25/06/2026: Life Philosophy and Misery
Links for the day
GAFAM Became a Mainstream Term, and Why Words Matter
Conveying problems in useful terms [...] Impairing propaganda attempts (e.g. calling parrots "intelligence", back doors "confidential", and outsourcing "cloud") should be the first step
European Patent Office (EPO) on Strike Today, Next Week Another Historic Week
If you live in Europe, contact your delegates today
FSF FreeJS Project (Part of the GNU Project's Goals) Advanced Further in 2026
They're moving to reduce dependence on anything to do with Microsoft
SLAPP Censorship - Part 119 Out of 200: Our Suggestions to Our Politicians and Heads of State
coverage about SLAPPs and related matters
Microsoft Already Closing Down Studios, According to Some Publishers
It is being compared to what happened in Intel
IBM PIP Stories Told in Public, Fake IBM News (Fabricated Claims) Drown Media Sites
IBM is seeding fake news to help justify the bailout
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, June 25, 2026
IRC logs for Thursday, June 25, 2026
Microsoft Falls to Lowest Value Since 2023
Microsoft can come back down to somewhere below $100
This Could be the Start of Microsoft's Biggest Wave of Layoffs in 50+ Years
This is what it looked like for Intel a few years ago
The Register MS is Promoting a Pyramid Scheme for Money, But It Is Over 6 Million Pounds in Debt
How much lower can the reputation of this publisher sink?
Gemini Links 25/06/2026: Unix-like People and NeoGeo
Links for the day
Members of the Delegations in the EPO's Administrative Council Told That Amid Unrest Campinos Must Go; a Year of EPO Strikes Means It's Time to Change Leadership
Which strategy is needed for the European Patent Organisation?
The Cyber Show on How Data is Misused and Broadcast is Abused to Crush Resistance to Harmful Technology
We recently published a number of articles about how Computer Science is coming under attack
Increasing Participation Rates in Staff Representatives' Elections at the European Patent Office (EPO)
The industrial actions seem to have brought colleagues closer together
Microsoft's Mass Layoffs Have Already Begun (Could Not Wait 'Til July)
Microsoft's biggest layoffs round in 50+ years?
Assessing the "Worth" of a Life
Don't let blunt plutocrats decide whether Venezuelans deserve sympathy or not
Planning 20-Year Techrights Event
Interested people can contact us in IRC
Links 25/06/2026: Earthquakes Strike Venezuela, Conflict of Interest in Kangaroo Court UPC
Links for the day
More Weight of IBM's Stock is Ascribed to Lies and Things That Do Not Exist
Turning stones into gold?
SLAPP Censorship - Part 118 Out of 200: Exposing Crimes is Not a Crime, It is a Public Service
We will soon enter the sixth year of lawfare
Links 25/06/2026: "Why We Need Seed Legislation" and XBox Chaos Predicted by Insiders
Links for the day
Gemini Links 25/06/2026: Hobbies Change, Young love, Strange Encounter, and Raspberry Pi Zero W
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, June 24, 2026
IRC logs for Wednesday, June 24, 2026