| schestowitz | http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/20... "Subsequently, I was trolled by my very own brother "... so, when is Luniux going to reach 1% market share?...." and this item has come out on ZDNet (which we all know is essentially funded by Microsoft, right?): Linux - Still chasing that elusive 1% market share." | Aug 20 15:55 |
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| blackrabbit | I've noticed a lot of trolls lately | Aug 20 16:01 |
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| blackrabbit | especially over the silverfish olympics deal | Aug 20 16:01 |
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| schestowitz | Where? It's true, it's in USENET and Slashdot, reportedly. Digg to.. | Aug 20 16:01 |
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| blackrabbit | someone needs to shine a light on these fools | Aug 20 16:02 |
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| blackrabbit | a smattering of random articles allowing comments on the net | Aug 20 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, remember when we blocked Tor? Well, in the past few days the Tor trolls came here to disrupt. They needed to be kicked and banned. At least one of them came from a USENET forum. | Aug 20 16:02 |
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| blackrabbit | some even take the time to comment on articles with fewer than 10 posts | Aug 20 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | Have a look at.. [waity] | Aug 20 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | *[wait] | Aug 20 16:03 |
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| blackrabbit | if you need to block tor users, so be it, but please make an exemption for gpg key tor users | Aug 20 16:03 |
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| blackrabbit | you can block tor users without blocking gpg key tor users | Aug 20 16:03 |
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| blackrabbit | many channels here do the same | Aug 20 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... ( Silverblight [sic] Boosters on Microsoft’s Payroll ) | Aug 20 16:03 |
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| blackrabbit | one of the reasons why I signed up for gpg key tor server | Aug 20 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | I know you can't read it now, so the gist is that Microsoft employees leave comments in ZDNet and other places to promote their technology. Job title? "Evangelist." As signed... | Aug 20 16:05 |
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| blackrabbit | thanks | Aug 20 16:05 |
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| blackrabbit | I am collecting these links, however | Aug 20 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | I've exposed some agencies recently. | Aug 20 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... I need your help if you are aware of more such agencies that Microsoft hires. | Aug 20 16:06 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, have you tried moonlight? | Aug 20 16:11 |
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| blackrabbit | I heard from a few people attempting to use it that they couldn't use it with the olympics site | Aug 20 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL*. No. Haven't tried OpenSUSE in years, either. | Aug 20 16:11 |
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| blackrabbit | now THAT'S interoperability in action | Aug 20 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, blackrabbit, it's not compatible. Moonlight is just for the EU to be lulled into the illusion of inter-OH-perability. | Aug 20 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | Later I'll publish a video about Mono. BTW, for the time being, I stopped publishing in journals. It's slow, it's restrictive (can't say the truth), but the main reason was the Microsoft ads. They flood the Web, esp. Linux sites. I think I can just lodge in a site or two (I neglected schestowitz.com, but bn.com is OK), even if I am not paid to publish. | Aug 20 16:12 |
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| blackrabbit | I wouldn't publish to a site running ms ads either | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| blackrabbit | though viewing sites I have adblockplus and noscript | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| blackrabbit | and flashblock | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| blackrabbit | and a hosts file which blocks most ms ads the others dont catch | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | That's not the point, benJIman. | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| blackrabbit | was mono really pulled from fedora or just the livecd? | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | Trust me, I've criticised people who write for publishers with MS ads. Even Joe Barr (may he rest in peace) | Aug 20 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | I'd be a hypocrite to carry on writing for that site after the ads were added (about a month ago). I hate having to proofread anyway. Slows down the flow... | Aug 20 16:14 |
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| schestowitz | Mono is not in the Live CD by default. IIRC, F8 had Tomboy and Mono. Will have to check my notes to be sure. | Aug 20 16:15 |
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| blackrabbit | amazing, my office allows legal cannabis smokers to smoke during breaks but not access web sites | Aug 20 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | http://technocrat.net/d/2008/7/25/46613 | Aug 20 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | " On the surface it looks like one possible reason for going after the Apache Foundation might be to disrupt it directly, like is being done by the ongoing aggression versus Yahoo to rattle the developers and teams." | Aug 20 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | "However, a licensing dependency injects a control and ownership over otherwise Free systems. What is happening to FOSS distros like Fedora and Ubuntu have been getting infected with Microsoft's licensing (e.g. Mono) could be a risk for Apache." | Aug 20 16:16 |
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| blackrabbit | honestly, I don't know how ms wiggled its way into apache | Aug 20 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | "these HP memos from 2002 is that MS could just be lining up its shots for a future lawsuit by using funding to leverage injecting proprietary material into general projects like Apache, Ubuntu, GNOME, etc., which it appears to be doing, and then cashing in (assuming MS is still around). Think a case like SCO but where MS has had a few years to ensure contamination has occurred before calling in the lawyers." | Aug 20 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | "It's up to regular users to look ahead at the development versions and not be chumps about accepting proprietary licensing in FOSS projects, especially from recidivist organizations." | Aug 20 16:17 |
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| blackrabbit | it seems like nothing can stop ms | Aug 20 16:17 |
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| schestowitz | Police? Haha. Just kidding. They are easily b ribed, too. :-) | Aug 20 16:18 |
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| blackrabbit | but in their country, anyone with money can get away with anything it seems | Aug 20 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, Intel too. | Aug 20 16:18 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, the ms/intel OLPC gangbang was quite effective | Aug 20 16:18 |
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| blackrabbit | bunch of pricks | Aug 20 16:18 |
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| blackrabbit | excuse me | Aug 20 16:18 |
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| blackrabbit | I had high hopes for OLPC | Aug 20 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Intel I would fight hard as well, but they fight companies, not communities (FOSS). That said, the OLPC thing made me hate Intel with passion. The things I saw them doing. To them, crime is something to take pride in and call "being competitive". | Aug 20 16:19 |
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| blackrabbit | in addition to several other OS and hardware scuttled by ms and/or intel | Aug 20 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that too. | Aug 20 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find something. | Aug 20 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Actually, the thing I thought about is an interview with Mr. Mono, so I'd rather now. The point made there anyway is that Microsoft, by sidling with Intel, made superior Alpha chips die. | Aug 20 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | *rather not | Aug 20 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | Barret sucked up to OLPC yesterday (in the IDF), surely just to carry on with that sweeping job they do... being coy, you know? Like 'joining' OLPC and then sabotaging deals with governments (e.g. Peru) using words, _from the inside_ of OLPC. It's irreparable and it was all written. But just as you find it in global warming, they dilute the pres using disinformation (placements). | Aug 20 16:23 |
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| blackrabbit | what forces are lined up to counter these two companies? | Aug 20 16:25 |
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| blackrabbit | isn't ms involved in the LF now? | Aug 20 16:25 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. Only by proxy (Novell et al). | Aug 20 16:25 |
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| blackrabbit | ms and novell | Aug 20 16:26 |
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| blackrabbit | reminds me | Aug 20 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | I predicted that sooner or later the LF will cave just like the OSI. They just need to brainwash people using the press to the point where "Microsoft <heart> linux" == 1. | Aug 20 16:26 |
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| blackrabbit | ms reminds me, with novell, of those pervs who make upskirt vids | Aug 20 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/05/22... "The Caldera antitrust lawsuit included some of the most damning evidence of Microsoft misconduct; breakware, black propaganda, all was there, the potential embarrassment being such that there was good reason for Microsoft to settle, then try to pretend it never happened. Now, however, maybe it didn’t ever happen - because the evidence is being pulped." | Aug 20 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | "AP reports that the 937 boxes of court-ordered documents, which have been in store since the lawsuit, are currently being destroyed at the behest of SCO, their owner and - surely coincidentally - Microsoft’s new friend. Some 40 boxes have been temporarily hijacked by Sun, which is busily scanning them for use in its own antitrust suit, but after it’s done so they’ll be off for pulping too." | Aug 20 16:26 |
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| blackrabbit | wow | Aug 20 16:27 |
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| blackrabbit | ms should release a shedderfish | Aug 20 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: vis-a-vis upskirtin', Japan made a 'law' for cameras. They must make a sound so as to prevent the perverts. | Aug 20 16:27 |
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| blackrabbit | "for all non-rose tinted ms articles and documents" | Aug 20 16:27 |
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| blackrabbit | lol really? | Aug 20 16:27 |
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| blackrabbit | what if you're deaf | Aug 20 16:28 |
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| blackrabbit | do they flash? :P | Aug 20 16:28 |
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| *blackrabbit makes a bad pun | Aug 20 16:28 |
| schestowitz | I think not. | Aug 20 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | Either way, PJ has a good stash of material on Caldera and SCO(M) | Aug 20 16:28 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm sick to death of sco | Aug 20 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | They claim to be getting a big fund. Gates connections have been found already. | Aug 20 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://itmanagement.earthweb... | Aug 20 16:30 |
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| blackrabbit | I keep waiting for obama to declare gates a VP | Aug 20 16:30 |
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| blackrabbit | remember when Gates called people asking about it? | Aug 20 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | *gap* no, never heard of it. | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | yes! | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | google it please | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | McCain wants Ballmer as embassador. | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | it was all over the news | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | gates called democrats | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | *ambassador. | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | asking if he could be a VP | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | WHAT?? | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | it was unreal | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, google it | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| blackrabbit | the guy wants to inject himself into politics big time | Aug 20 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/... | Aug 20 16:32 |
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| blackrabbit | he had the money now he wants power, IMO | Aug 20 16:32 |
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| schestowitz | Well, he already controls a lot of the press. | Aug 20 16:32 |
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| blackrabbit | true | Aug 20 16:32 |
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| blackrabbit | google it, believe me | Aug 20 16:32 |
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| blackrabbit | you'll find mention of it | Aug 20 16:32 |
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| schestowitz | What bothers me the most is that the man is a criminal, but people's brains have been washed so badly by his groupies and press that they think he was a Saint. | Aug 20 16:33 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, most people's minds swim in brainwashing of mass media | Aug 20 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | Should there not be a law against criminals in govt'. Oh wait... many things he just settled out of court. | Aug 20 16:33 |
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| Tallken | MS is the criminal in the people's mind | Aug 20 16:33 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, he is a criminal | Aug 20 16:33 |
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| blackrabbit | most people view ballmer as the root of it all | Aug 20 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | Lucky me, I don't live in the US, but some of my family does. I guess that a criminal running the nation wouldn't be all that far fetched. | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| blackrabbit | they dismiss gates because they love the money | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | That's a good cap, bad cop game. | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| blackrabbit | the UK isn't that much better | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| blackrabbit | no offense | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | Again, a professor once told me convincingly about how they play that game. They now do this with Ramji. | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| blackrabbit | both countries are well controlled | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| blackrabbit | corporate rule | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | The UK may be worse. | Aug 20 16:34 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, always a delight, I wish I could continue to day, duty calls | Aug 20 16:35 |
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| Tallken | What about Russia? I still haven't understood in which direction they are going... | Aug 20 16:35 |
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| schestowitz | Not to mention Gardon and Tony and their connection with the Bilderberg, with which the Gates family too is associated. | Aug 20 16:35 |
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| schestowitz | Russian schools move to GNU/Linux, but the Groves/Gates axis intervenes now. | Aug 20 16:35 |
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| schestowitz | I hope Groklaw will be writing about the Novell/Mirosoft deal. I hope to read another perspective of things. Has anyone found something other than 'mainstream press' drivel (quotes and PR)? | Aug 20 16:42 |
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| trmanco | not yet | Aug 20 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | I asked her about it. Asay now has something up: http://news.cnet.com/8301-... | Aug 20 16:55 |
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| *trmanco will BRB | Aug 20 16:55 |
| neighborlee | hi all how goes it ;0- | Aug 20 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | Novell greased him up though. Yuck! They sucked up to him for good coverage. They are just like Microsoft in that respect. | Aug 20 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | Howdy, neighborlee it's not too good. (Not me, Novell) | Aug 20 16:55 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz,oh, why whats up ;0- | Aug 20 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | The anti-Linux dance continues as Microsoft funnels another $0.1 bil' into it. | Aug 20 16:56 |
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| neighborlee | info at url you posted a moment ago ? | Aug 20 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | Ashalee Vance ( a f*ckwit) is moving to the NYT: http://news.cnet.com/8... (what ever happened to standards?) | Aug 20 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | Well, no. Just a former Novell employee. | Aug 20 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | Here's my own take but I wrote it in a rush: http://boycottnovell.com/2008... http://boycottnovell.com/20... | Aug 20 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | Does anyone here speak Polish. This just in: http://uokik.gov.pl/pl/informacja_i_edu... | Aug 20 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | Polish Competition and Consumer Protection Authority Blasts Microsoft, Forwards Case to European Commission | Aug 20 17:10 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, what is the best approach to combat fud about .net being ecma standard ... | Aug 20 17:22 |
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| neighborlee | cant find my urls atm | Aug 20 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | It's no protection against patent. | Aug 20 17:23 |
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| MinceR | ooxml became an ecma standard quickly | Aug 20 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | I'll post some video about this shortly. Actually, now that you mention it, give me half an hours and I'll post a summary for you. | Aug 20 17:23 |
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| neighborlee | MinceR, yup | Aug 20 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | ECMA has clients, not standards. | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| MinceR | so ecma probably isn't discerning at all | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | ECMA is like a shop. | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| neighborlee | MinceR, and its a bad one at that as I recall.. | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| MinceR | i don't know if they even had to pay ecma to make it a "standard" | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | ECMA is widely known for its corrupt behavior and gaming. | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| MinceR | the only standardization body i can respect nowadays is ietf | Aug 20 17:24 |
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| neighborlee | is ecma the org. that approved ooxml ? | Aug 20 17:25 |
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| neighborlee | been awhile since I thought about such thngs | Aug 20 17:25 |
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| MinceR | it is, iirc | Aug 20 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | ECMA shoves them down ISO's throat. | Aug 20 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | They'll try XPS next. They still work on it. | Aug 20 17:25 |
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| neighborlee | one of the biggest issues as I recall, is the whole , having to get mono from novel only..that alone is a gpl violation isn't it ? | Aug 20 17:26 |
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| MinceR | is mono gpl-ed? | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| neighborlee | and the whole asp and ado.net , not being part of ecma standard right ? | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| neighborlee | MinceR, dont think it can be. | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| neighborlee | MinceR, its based on patent encumbered technology | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| MinceR | i don't think so either. | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| MinceR | that can work with GPLv2 as long as they don't call it patent licensing | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, there are patents. | Aug 20 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | The 'protection' from Microsoft and word from its execs confirm that they try to 'bless' just those that pay Microsoft... for Mono | Aug 20 17:28 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: will post about it shortly. | Aug 20 17:28 |
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| neighborlee | ah ok | Aug 20 17:28 |
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| neighborlee | but anyway I read here as wel as I had forgotten, that redhat never has suppported mono due to windows > linux not supported ..plus mono was added to fedora and it should not have been and because there was no patent grant given to them, so yes its all a big nightmare, and thankfully fedora finallly removed mono at least from livecd ;) | Aug 20 17:29 |
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| neighborlee | why any linux user would trust anything from the company that wants to destroy OSS is very much beyond me...I suspect those that support it are either very naive, or more likely M$ enthusiasts running silent to push M$ standards LOL | Aug 20 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | Well, that would be Miguel, OOXML fan boy. | Aug 20 17:31 |
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| neighborlee | LOL yup | Aug 20 17:32 |
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| schestowitz | OK, done with the post about Poland < http://boycottnovell.com/2008... >. On to Mono... | Aug 20 17:32 |
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| MinceR | XPS is yet another reason for adobe to start supporting linux | Aug 20 17:32 |
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| neighborlee | what is xps | Aug 20 17:32 |
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| neighborlee | silverlight stuff ? | Aug 20 17:33 |
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| Tallken | Still about Foxconn [ http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... ], some updates on that. http://mjg59.livejournal.com/96625.html ( "Testing 2.6.27-rc2 with the current released (not development) BIOS on the Foxconn G33M reveals the following: (...) )? The fix is 3 lines long which fixes almost all problems. The fault here is incorrect reading (on purpose or not) of the ACPI spec by the BIOS makers, if I read well. | Aug 20 17:34 |
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| Tallken | Launchpad bug #5536245 - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubu... | Aug 20 17:34 |
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| MinceR | microsoft postscript/pdf | Aug 20 17:34 |
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| MinceR | named after a dell line of computers ;) | Aug 20 17:34 |
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| MinceR | imo dell should sue them for trademark violation | Aug 20 17:35 |
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| neighborlee | Tallken, I recall hearing about that mess | Aug 20 17:35 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: if they had sued them, Microsoft would kill Dell using 'margin death'. | Aug 20 17:36 |
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| schestowitz | Joachim Kempin, Microsoft OEM Chief: "I’m thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with anti-Linux. ... they should do a delicate dance" | Aug 20 17:36 |
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| MinceR | what's that? the OEM license pricing attack? | Aug 20 17:36 |
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| MinceR | i think someone should try suing microsoft for that | Aug 20 17:36 |
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| neighborlee | woah scary stuff ;0- | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: I'll do a short post on Mono because it just embeds links that answer the question. | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: yah, the guy at Ubuntuforums had the patience to disassemble the DSDT of the BIOS. A new BIOS was sent to him which works fine. | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: after annyoing Foxconn a bit, of course xD | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| neighborlee | LOL yup | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: since at first they wouldn't bother :/ | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| schestowitz | There's this one too: "We should whack them [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings], we should make sure they understand our value." --Paul Flessner, Microsoft | Aug 20 17:37 |
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| MinceR | they're losing leverage in that field | Aug 20 17:38 |
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| neighborlee | but I mean, was a big company like this that stupid to think no one would try disassembling ?? | Aug 20 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | Well, watch the latest about Poland. It's the FOURTH country in less than a week. | Aug 20 17:38 |
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| neighborlee | yeah, thats going to get messy | Aug 20 17:38 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, ok thx | Aug 20 17:39 |
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| Tallken | Microsoft is being dumb IMHO. If they fixed their OS, implemented POSIX layer by default instead of selling separately and used BSD stuff they would have no trouble, would make life easier for everyone and would behave like a decent company... but no, they must act like thieves... Bah | Aug 20 17:40 |
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| MinceR | i think the problem is that they simply can't implement anything properly | Aug 20 17:41 |
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| Tallken | And we must say MS is only facing competition from OSS because their business model wouldn't allow proper and decent products to crop up, leading an healthy competition from which a good software ecossystem would have arisen... They are getting what they deserve | Aug 20 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: here's what might help your argument: http://boycottnovell.com/2008... | Aug 20 17:41 |
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| MinceR | and of course that their leaders are assholes. | Aug 20 17:41 |
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| Tallken | "Let me see... pay for crappy SW or join the only good thing that it's left?" | Aug 20 17:41 |
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| Tallken | lol MinceR | Aug 20 17:42 |
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| neighborlee | Tallken, you just described most of the business world ;) | Aug 20 17:42 |
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| neighborlee | Tallken, let alone, god forbid our own government ( in this case I mean sadly, us of a ) | Aug 20 17:42 |
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| schestowitz | I suppose you heard about gates wanting to be Vice President? | Aug 20 17:42 |
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| neighborlee | ooooooomy gosh...laughing stock ;) | Aug 20 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | From the man who brought you: "Thanks to Mr. Gates, we now know that an open Internet with protocols anyone can implement is communism; it was set up by that famous communist agent, the US Department of Defense." --Richard Stallman | Aug 20 17:43 |
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| schestowitz | He also called it communism, but so did Ballmer and Allchin. | Aug 20 17:43 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: I'm still a dreamer, I want to believe MS can get their things right... If they just would fix their things and stop breaking the other people's stuff!!!! | Aug 20 17:44 |
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| Tallken | where have I seen a joke about an old dog with a close government supervision? | Aug 20 17:44 |
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| neighborlee | heh | Aug 20 17:44 |
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| neighborlee | Tallken, its not a bad dream..but it wont happen atm by its current people in charge ;) | Aug 20 17:45 |
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| MinceR | well, obviously a market where anyone can compete and market forces decide who prospers is communism. | Aug 20 17:45 |
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| Tallken | ya :/ | Aug 20 17:45 |
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| Tallken | rofl | Aug 20 17:45 |
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| Tallken | if your company can't compete, it is xD | Aug 20 17:45 |
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| Tallken | I never expected China to bow down to MS | Aug 20 17:46 |
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| neighborlee | my vision of a world is where no competition is in existence..but it wont happen easily because the world is ruled by greed ;) | Aug 20 17:46 |
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| Tallken | I do hope they start using proper Linux | Aug 20 17:46 |
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| Tallken | if they want to pay it good | Aug 20 17:46 |
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| Tallken | but not to has not merit | Aug 20 17:46 |
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| Tallken | *but not to (some company) has not merit to earn it | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | Tallken: China is owned by Gates. For a long time. He's friends with them. | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: people get lazy easily | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: I believe competition is the way forward | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: with a strong supervision | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| neighborlee | you dont have to compete, when you work with your neighbor ;) | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: from someone :/ | Aug 20 17:47 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: well ya too much competition is stupid | Aug 20 17:48 |
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| neighborlee | someone far better than myself said that..his first name was j esus :) | Aug 20 17:48 |
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| Tallken | lol | Aug 20 17:48 |
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| Tallken | well ya | Aug 20 17:48 |
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| Tallken | but the world ain't perfect | Aug 20 17:49 |
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| neighborlee | its supposed to be ;) | Aug 20 17:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.desktoplinux.co... - How Microsoft bought China | Aug 20 17:49 |
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| neighborlee | omg china..what a MESS that is | Aug 20 17:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/... | Aug 20 17:49 |
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| neighborlee | polllution, civil rights vanquished..sheesh | Aug 20 17:49 |
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| Tallken | I prefer to ensure I've the power to make it perfect than expecting it to be... It's the essence of competition. | Aug 20 17:50 |
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| neighborlee | well think of it like a perfectly working ecosystem | Aug 20 17:50 |
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| neighborlee | all parts work along with each other | Aug 20 17:50 |
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| neighborlee | no competition, just interaction | Aug 20 17:50 |
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| neighborlee | you see now ? ;) | Aug 20 17:50 |
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| neighborlee | if they dont work together, you get global warming, and we all know what thats doing dont we ;) | Aug 20 17:51 |
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| neighborlee | yet our dear government wants to consider drilling offshore...what-a-joke ;) | Aug 20 17:52 |
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| neighborlee | yeah lets spill more oil in our oceans ;) | Aug 20 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | They already spill e-waste in Africa | Aug 20 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | Let them eat cak... err... I mean, mercury. | Aug 20 17:52 |
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| neighborlee | :) | Aug 20 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | Step one for change: reduce greed, promote culture, folklore. | Aug 20 17:53 |
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| neighborlee | exactly | Aug 20 17:53 |
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| neighborlee | greed causes all of our problems | Aug 20 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | Hollywood, one of the benefactors of the consumer-producer divide, fights such change using brainwash it can generate. | Aug 20 17:54 |
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| neighborlee | yeah im ashamed of hollywood | Aug 20 17:54 |
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| neighborlee | capable of much, yet creators of not much good | Aug 20 17:54 |
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| schestowitz | So it's a circular catch really. It raises the young generation to cherish material things. Oh! And being good is sissy, whereas being bad and dangerous is "cool". | Aug 20 17:54 |
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| neighborlee | yup | Aug 20 17:55 |
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| neighborlee | wherein they miss the boat, as in reality being bad is easier, as being good is a promise to work effectively to maintain good relations with others and help your fellow man create harmony | Aug 20 17:56 |
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| neighborlee | as jesus said..those taking the wide road find it easy but it leads to des truction..the narrow road which is hard leads to life. | Aug 20 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | Well... | Aug 20 17:56 |
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| neighborlee | sorry for religion insertion, but its true. | Aug 20 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | That's fine. | Aug 20 17:57 |
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| neighborlee | my friend calls me a jesus freak LOL | Aug 20 17:57 |
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| neighborlee | in mostly humorous tone, but hey ;) | Aug 20 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | Destruction of youth, or anything benevolent thing like FOSS or CCL for that matter, is part of the plan. | Aug 20 17:57 |
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| neighborlee | yup | Aug 20 17:58 |
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| Tallken | bah | Aug 20 17:58 |
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| Tallken | I see it this way | Aug 20 17:58 |
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| Tallken | the good will know something is wrong | Aug 20 17:58 |
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| Tallken | and find the goodness | Aug 20 17:58 |
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| Tallken | and promote the goodness | Aug 20 17:58 |
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| neighborlee | tell that to islam | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| Tallken | the bad and lazy will embrace the easy things | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| schestowitz | Or buy the perception of goodness. Just watch a criminal Gates buying his way to glory. | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| Tallken | neighborlee: well ok | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| Tallken | good point | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| neighborlee | sadly yes it is ;( | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| Tallken | but what can we do? "teach" them? Who are we to feel morally superior? | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| Tallken | That's what they do | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| Tallken | not us | Aug 20 17:59 |
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| neighborlee | morally superior is irrelevant | Aug 20 18:00 |
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| Tallken | we must have a strong vision of our world | Aug 20 18:00 |
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| Tallken | to resist their attacks | Aug 20 18:00 |
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| Tallken | and shut them up when we have the right to | Aug 20 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | This is related to the "Microsoft hater" label. Denouncing crime is wrong, doing crime (Microsoft) is to be tolerated. | Aug 20 18:00 |
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| Tallken | I'm not saying we do not denounce it | Aug 20 18:01 |
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| Tallken | ok, I can't reply properly | Aug 20 18:01 |
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| schestowitz | No, not that... | Aug 20 18:02 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the point I was making is that in order to gag critics of crime there are labels that are used. Zealot, extremist, basher, hater, etc. | Aug 20 18:02 |
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| Tallken | what I meant is: ensure the message of the good gets passed; don't whine (too much) of the evil ones; criticise contructively their message; ensure bad actions are punished without undermining the others authority, but still get the message transmitted | Aug 20 18:03 |
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| Tallken | that's the whine part | Aug 20 18:03 |
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| Tallken | we have to be careful to provide more than enough proof to make it a rational discussion | Aug 20 18:03 |
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| Tallken | *critic, not discussion | Aug 20 18:03 |
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| Tallken | otherwise everytime we get called zealot, whatever | Aug 20 18:04 |
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| schestowitz | Another MS/Novell parrot spotted: http://www.webpronews.com/topnew... | Aug 20 18:04 |
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| Tallken | the whole community gets a little less confidence | Aug 20 18:04 |
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| Tallken | the whole community gets a little less confidence from outsiders | Aug 20 18:04 |
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| schestowitz | If they don't understand it, why just repeat the press release? | Aug 20 18:04 |
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| schestowitz | Evidence is accumulated too. | Aug 20 18:05 |
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| Tallken | I don't believe in a perfect world; I believe we must build with the appropriate use of "force"; but we're the good guys, thereby the use of quotes in "force" | Aug 20 18:07 |
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| schestowitz | Regulation sounds better. | Aug 20 18:07 |
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| Tallken | Plus there are sometimes, speaking not of the current time nor place, where goodness is asking to get p0wn3d | Aug 20 18:07 |
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| schestowitz | Enforcement using fine is not the way to go; too many companies operate criminally as a matter of routine. It's the norm. Microsoft's stock options are an example of this. | Aug 20 18:08 |
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| Tallken | we're the fighters of one side; neithers us or any of the fighters should be the regulators | Aug 20 18:08 |
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| neighborlee | peaceful demonstration worked for ghandi,,,and well we know whom else it worked for, though at some cost of course :(,,sorry for more religion insertions, but it is relevant if we talk about such things I think ;) | Aug 20 18:08 |
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| schestowitz | There are established market rules though. The wealthy makes it all deviate even from the constitution. | Aug 20 18:09 |
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| Tallken | though in Portugal when it was for the OOXML vote, one of ANSOL (National Association of Free Software) stepped down from the comitee because he considered he would be partial only too... have his place occupied by one Microserf xD | Aug 20 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: stop apologising. It's fine. | Aug 20 18:09 |
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| Tallken | man I didn't know whether I'd laugh or cry | Aug 20 18:09 |
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| neighborlee | ok. | Aug 20 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | Portugal and OOXML . *SCREAM* | Aug 20 18:10 |
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| Tallken | :P | Aug 20 18:10 |
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| schestowitz | "Not enough chairs in the room.." | Aug 20 18:10 |
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| schestowitz | MSBBC now makes it sounds like Microsoft does the world a favour with it's anti-Linux anti-VM second-class product: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/te... | Aug 20 18:12 |
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| Tallken | ROFL didn't know about the chair issue | Aug 20 18:13 |
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| Tallken | so sad | Aug 20 18:13 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find it. | Aug 20 18:15 |
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| Tallken | i found it already schestowitz | Aug 20 18:15 |
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| Tallken | searched the site ;) | Aug 20 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-op... | Aug 20 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=1755 | Aug 20 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | I left a comment there at the time. It was the early day when Microsoft was even more aggressive and corrupt than the second time around (it even bribed). | Aug 20 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/mono < this is always a good one,detractor from within says alot,,even though its 4 years old but still | Aug 20 18:18 |
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| trmanco | http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2795 | Aug 20 18:19 |
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| Tallken | Permission to dump four anti Windows links which may or may not be of interest/already known? | Aug 20 18:19 |
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| schestowitz | neighborlee: it's also good because it's prophetic. | Aug 20 18:19 |
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| Tallken | (got them from the Favorites) | Aug 20 18:19 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, yeah | Aug 20 18:19 |
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| schestowitz | Tallken: go ahead. | Aug 20 18:19 |
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| Tallken | http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html -> `Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions | Aug 20 18:20 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, that Fobes nonsense. There was another one in BusinessWeek and the Microsoft Munchkins soon used it against FOSS. It's incorrect. It fits old figures to match the analysis. | Aug 20 18:20 |
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| Tallken | http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/... -> Why I hate Microsoft "A personal, lengthy, but highly articulate outburst" | Aug 20 18:20 |
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| schestowitz | Forbes wants to give the Microsoft takes on Open Source and BW won't tell you that investments in OSS are at an _ALL-TIMES HIGH_. | Aug 20 18:20 |
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| schestowitz | Tallken: I know the guy who wrote this. | Aug 20 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | He used to post a lot in USENET, but he rarely does this now. | Aug 20 18:21 |
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| Tallken | http://www.msfree.com/cached/ww... -> Windows XP Shows the Direction Microsoft is Going. [NOTE: last mirror available! original site doesn't work] | Aug 20 18:21 |
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| Tallken | http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pu... -> A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection | Aug 20 18:21 |
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| Tallken | and that's it | Aug 20 18:21 |
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| Tallken | lol you do? | Aug 20 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | Haven't see that 3rd one. | Aug 20 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Make a local copy just in case. | Aug 20 18:23 |
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| Tallken | :) | Aug 20 18:24 |
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| Tallken | I'm rereading those | Aug 20 18:24 |
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| Tallken | It's been a long time since I read them | Aug 20 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | Tallken: I have a script running in BN, so any URL you put here is saves locally on my external HDD. | Aug 20 18:25 |
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| Tallken | lol ok ok | Aug 20 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | But it doesn't do IRC because I fold these posts. | Aug 20 18:25 |
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| Tallken | €«The modern age only started when Gutenberg invented movable type printing in Europe, which enabled information to be preserved and disseminated even if princes and bishops wanted to ban it. For example, when Wycliffe translated the Bible into English in 1380-1, the Lollard movement he started was suppressed easily; but when Tyndale translated the New Testament in 1524-5, he was able to print over 50,000 copies before they caught | Aug 20 18:25 |
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| Tallken | him and burned him at the stake.€» | Aug 20 18:25 |
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| Tallken | rofl | Aug 20 18:26 |
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| Tallken | poor guy | Aug 20 18:26 |
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| Tallken | €«By 2008, you may find that the costs of turning TC off are simply intolerable.€» of, bad date prediction... | Aug 20 18:26 |
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| Tallken | *ok | Aug 20 18:26 |
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| schestowitz | Is Apple into that too (I know the answer)? | Aug 20 18:27 |
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| schestowitz | IBM seems to be pushing this into GNU/Linux too. I don't trust their little 'open' Lotus plot. | Aug 20 18:27 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. Dana 'borrowed' my picture: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2803 | Aug 20 18:28 |
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| schestowitz | Horrible, horrible headline: "Microsoft invest in Linux again" http://www.heise.de/english/ne... They invest in killing GNU/Linux as a Free/free platform/OS. | Aug 20 18:34 |
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| Tallken | do your ISPs have NNTP servers? Mine doesn't :'( | Aug 20 18:55 |
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| *self_liar (i=c92b2321@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-50a795cf4a82f148) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 20 18:55 |
| self_liar | hello | Aug 20 18:55 |
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| schestowitz | Hi there. | Aug 20 18:55 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz:thanks roy for a lot of articles , | Aug 20 18:55 |
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| schestowitz | There's a war against NNTP. They use paedophelia as an excuse for killing it. | Aug 20 18:56 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: it takes your time,but is very important do document the m$ attacks | Aug 20 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | They could probably blame "terrorist" or "piracy" instead. There's just too much free speech for them to cope with on USENET. | Aug 20 18:56 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: give me a link for info | Aug 20 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | self_liar: yes, I fell behind because of it. Catching up with MS at the moment.... lots of news. | Aug 20 18:57 |
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| schestowitz | I could always use some input... links and stuff to ensure we don't miss something from the puzzle. | Aug 20 18:57 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: if the takes a lot of time, write 1 or 2 articles each day | Aug 20 18:58 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: i understand your lack of time | Aug 20 18:58 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: that dotexe | Aug 20 18:58 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: is eet? | Aug 20 18:58 |
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| schestowitz | No. | Aug 20 18:58 |
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| schestowitz | It's someone from USENET, I think. | Aug 20 18:58 |
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| schestowitz | [H]omer would say that it's Gary Stewart or Scott Douglas. They are probably paid AstroTurfers. Been out there for ages. | Aug 20 18:59 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz, is that link up for ecma stuff, sorry if I missed it I have been busy in another channel(s) ;))) | Aug 20 18:59 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it's the latest post. | Aug 20 19:00 |
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| Tallken | the man who invented Gmane has my love for all eternity xD | Aug 20 19:01 |
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| Tallken | all Mailing List software should have a news-to-ML gateway | Aug 20 19:01 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: it'is possible m$ create a odf plugin ? | Aug 20 19:02 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: or it's a eternal fairy tale? | Aug 20 19:02 |
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| schestowitz | The censorship of NGs through ISPs is a real blow to democracy. They cull out thousands of NGs because of some rotten apples. | Aug 20 19:02 |
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| schestowitz | They'll create some very crappy and then use lots of popups to steer users towards OOXML. | Aug 20 19:02 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: ok , a bad odf implementation | Aug 20 19:03 |
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| self_liar | a lot of people was speculating abou kde fork,but who needs a fork is gnome | Aug 20 19:04 |
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| schestowitz | They are in it for the money. Had they decided to play nice, they'd have joined ages ago (ODF, not MOOX) | Aug 20 19:04 |
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| self_liar | goneme should be live,but it's not | Aug 20 19:04 |
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| schestowitz | There won't be a KDE fork. They add the same functionality (customization) gradually. They restore power. | Aug 20 19:05 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: I know ,but a gnome fork can be good | Aug 20 19:06 |
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| self_liar | schestowitz: kde is great ,of course,until now (without mono ) | Aug 20 19:07 |
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| schestowitz | self_liar: for Mono | Aug 20 19:07 |
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