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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 18th, 2009 - Part 1

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schestowitz"Girl's 22,795 Messages Nothing to Celebrate [...] Nevertheless, Dad's math pegged the stream as "one text message every 113 seconds."  http://www.pcworld.com/article/159645/tex...Feb 18 00:03
schestowitzDaemonisation of the term "hackers" again (they try to deplete vocabularies): Hackers Attack Antivirus Firm's Tech Support Site < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159651/ha... >Feb 18 00:03
twitterha ha, M$FT got clobbered today.  Down about 5%, about 1% more than general markets.  http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFTFeb 18 00:05
twitterthey actually dipped below $18.  at that rate, it won't be long till they are breaking new 52 week lows (now $16.75)Feb 18 00:07
schestowitzMaybe the loot^H^H^Himulus wasn't enough to save them from bankruptcy after all.Feb 18 00:08
schestowitz:-) http://www.suseblog.com/microsof... citing BN... "See, now people always tell me that I am a conspiracy theorist against Microsoft. Alrighty, well, here’s yet another chance for you to see that I am more of a realist than you think."Feb 18 00:09
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MinceRgnFeb 18 00:27
schestowitznnFeb 18 00:27
schestowitzI'm doing a post laterFeb 18 00:28
schestowitzmore novell layoffs are definitely coming, probably at the end of next weekFeb 18 00:28
schestowitzjuicy details.. :-( I hope employees take none of this persoanlly.Feb 18 00:28
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schestowitzWindows7 is being ripped apart in /. ATM. Over 1000 comments. Wonderful. Party's over for the PR gig..Feb 18 00:58
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PetoKrauswhere?Feb 18 02:22
schestowitzHold on...Feb 18 02:23
schestowitzhttp://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=vie... Another one in FP (search through it)Feb 18 02:24
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2kTy7glZ...Feb 18 02:31
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-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, we just lost everything on the other side of the atlantic -- it would appear we've got between our US and EU hubs, we're looking into the issue and hopefully we'll have things back to normal shortly. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for using freenode.Feb 18 09:41
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schestowitzMorning...Feb 18 10:07
schestowitz:The companies behind a 356,800 seat deployment in Brazil claim world records for the largest desktop virtualisation rollout, the largest desktop Linux rollout, and the lowest cost per seat." http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23...Feb 18 10:09
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-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, it would appear we've discovered yet another bug in hyperion, the ircd we run -- how we've managed to use it successfully for so long is now but a great mystery. The network is back up, for now, but in light of this we will be looking at bringing our ircd-change forward, details shall be forthcoming. Please accept my sincere apologies for the instability as of late and thank you for your patience.Feb 18 10:13
MinceRr4wrFeb 18 10:20
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, It appears I may have been too harsh on hyperion -- this crash wasn't a segfault after all, but some of hardened gentoo's 'security' measures deciding that our ircd is a threat. More information will be provided on the blog when we have a better picture and know what actions will be taken to prevent this from occuring again. Thank you for using freenode and have a good day!Feb 18 10:50
oiaohm_YepFeb 18 11:06
oiaohm_Price per seat is a interesting number.Feb 18 11:06
oiaohm_Under windows its copy of software + CAL's for that user.Feb 18 11:06
oiaohm_CAL's alone are more than 50 dollars a seat in most cases.Feb 18 11:07
schestowitzNComputing is potentially subverted by Microsoft but there is no evidence so far other than appointment of anti-Linux folk.Feb 18 11:08
oiaohm_Why would a Linux company want anti-linux folk.Feb 18 11:09
oiaohm_So there arguements can be disected.Feb 18 11:09
schestowitz.It's not a Linux companyFeb 18 11:12
oiaohm_You need to dig a little deeper schestowitzFeb 18 11:16
oiaohm_All there devices support Linux.Feb 18 11:16
oiaohm_They are not for Microsoft.  To be correct some of there developers hate Microsoft for making virtualising XP so hard.Feb 18 11:18
schestowitzOnly 40% of their deployments are Linux.Feb 18 11:31
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oiaohm_schestowitz 40% is way higher than numbers MS trys to make people believe.Feb 18 12:34
oiaohm_Issue is here they are completely about undermining MS profit streams.Feb 18 12:34
schestowitzSo Will Poole intervenes?Feb 18 12:37
schestowitzAccused Rogue Admin Terry Childs Makes His Case < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159717/childs_d... >. Why don't they chase down all the white-collar criminals rather than harrass sysadmins?Feb 18 12:42
schestowitzI think we've just been stumbleuponed.Feb 18 12:53
schestowitzI don't have diagnostics to see where the massive traffic comes from.Feb 18 12:53
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mib_f25rzqhello?Feb 18 12:57
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schestowitzHeyFeb 18 12:58
mib_f25rzqgood morningFeb 18 12:58
schestowitzWhat's new?Feb 18 12:58
mib_f25rzqive been up all night installing this on my laptop... it seems to be going well..Feb 18 12:58
mib_f25rzqnoobFeb 18 12:58
mib_f25rzqhereFeb 18 12:58
schestowitzWhich distro?Feb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqubuntuFeb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqultimate linuxFeb 18 12:59
schestowitzIt's a good one.Feb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqit seems to be..Feb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqi tried suse beforeFeb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqbut it wouldnt installFeb 18 12:59
schestowitzYesFeb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqkept haltingFeb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqso i gave upFeb 18 12:59
schestowitzCommon..Feb 18 12:59
mib_f25rzqthis is on a wireless laptopFeb 18 13:00
schestowitzDebian has its meritsFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqyesFeb 18 13:00
schestowitzPreinstalls are importantFeb 18 13:00
schestowitzThey are common on sub-notebooks these daysFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqpreinstalls?Feb 18 13:00
schestowitzYesFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqwhat do you mean?Feb 18 13:00
schestowitzpredictable h/w combinationsFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqnoFeb 18 13:00
schestowitzDistros for Netbooks always just workFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:00
schestowitzYou can work out precisely which h/w is usedFeb 18 13:00
mib_f25rzqthis is a refular laptopFeb 18 13:01
schestowitzLike in the case of OS/SFeb 18 13:01
mib_f25rzqlatitudeFeb 18 13:01
schestowitz*OS/XFeb 18 13:01
mib_f25rzqits good thoughFeb 18 13:01
mib_f25rzqi like itFeb 18 13:01
mib_f25rzqnow, i have to figure out what the hell a tarbell isFeb 18 13:01
mib_f25rzqand im setFeb 18 13:01
schestowitzWhat for?Feb 18 13:02
schestowitzUse the repositories.Feb 18 13:02
schestowitzSynamptic.Feb 18 13:02
mib_f25rzqah?Feb 18 13:02
schestowitz*SynapticFeb 18 13:02
mib_f25rzqa couple of places online to down load softare all had targz or something like thatFeb 18 13:02
schestowitzTarballs are typically for installing software that's not already prepared for you to just fetch and use.Feb 18 13:02
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:03
mib_f25rzqalrightFeb 18 13:03
schestowitzTry to find the same software on the repositoryFeb 18 13:03
mib_f25rzqi do have alot to readFeb 18 13:03
schestowitzIt might be just a tickbox awayFeb 18 13:03
schestowitzIt's not like WindowsFeb 18 13:03
schestowitzYou don't download software.Feb 18 13:03
mib_f25rzqi have been copying and pasting alot of text into the terminalFeb 18 13:03
schestowitzThere are tens of gigabyes of software on a remote server and you choose what to pull onto your computerFeb 18 13:03
MinceRdon't call it OS/X, that gives OS/2 a bad name.Feb 18 13:04
MinceR:>Feb 18 13:04
mib_f25rzqwhat?Feb 18 13:04
mib_f25rzqosx?Feb 18 13:04
schestowitzSome people call it "OS/X"Feb 18 13:04
mib_f25rzqwhats wrong with osx?Feb 18 13:04
schestowitzOS 10 (out of 100)Feb 18 13:04
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: he was joking in a way. MinceR is no fan of AppleFeb 18 13:05
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:05
MinceRlots are wrong with osx.Feb 18 13:05
mib_f25rzqno fan of apple?Feb 18 13:05
schestowitzOS X is in some ways more restrictive than Windows. The iPhone is for sure.Feb 18 13:05
MinceReven more is wrong with how apple presents itFeb 18 13:05
mib_f25rzqwhats wrong with apple?Feb 18 13:05
mib_f25rzqbesides the priceFeb 18 13:05
mib_f25rzqit seems like a good platformFeb 18 13:06
MinceRthey screw their customers over, present the ideas of others as their ownFeb 18 13:06
schestowitzDRM, h/w bundling, etc.Feb 18 13:06
mib_f25rzqyeahFeb 18 13:06
MinceRrip off FLOSS projects with minimal or nothing given back to the developers and the communityFeb 18 13:06
schestowitzIf all computers were Apple, there would be other issues.Feb 18 13:06
schestowitzThat we don't realise yet because Apple is small.Feb 18 13:06
MinceRthey promote DRM and hoard controlFeb 18 13:06
MinceRalso, they promote sw patentsFeb 18 13:06
MinceRthey try to inhibit innovation everywhereFeb 18 13:07
schestowitzANd use them against Linux devices/swFeb 18 13:07
mib_f25rzqhmmmokayFeb 18 13:07
MinceRthe things in osx that happen to work aren't apple's work but work they've ripped off and yet they parade around with itFeb 18 13:07
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:07
MinceRand their approach to IT is completely wrong.Feb 18 13:07
mib_f25rzqlike msFeb 18 13:07
MinceRa lot like m$, yesFeb 18 13:07
schestowitzNot really.Feb 18 13:07
schestowitzThey have other characteristics, but with overlapFeb 18 13:08
schestowitzApple is a lot more vain /outwardly/Feb 18 13:08
schestowitzIt seems to be part of the marketing too (see Mac/PC ads)Feb 18 13:08
MinceRthey're not as good at making dirty little deals that force their products over unsuspecting peopleFeb 18 13:08
MinceRbut they're better at building a cult of followers.Feb 18 13:08
MinceR(Reality Distortion Field, etc.)Feb 18 13:08
schestowitzGuy Kawasaki calls it "evangelism"Feb 18 13:08
schestowitzWhich Microsoft has something to say about tooFeb 18 13:09
schestowitzApple is like Hollywood and Washington DCFeb 18 13:09
schestowitzThey are mostly about imposed illusions and dreamFeb 18 13:09
mib_f25rzqah.Feb 18 13:09
mib_f25rzqwell this laptop is dualboot with vista....Feb 18 13:09
mib_f25rzqits not that bad.. not as good as xp.. but eh.. its worksFeb 18 13:10
schestowitzImagine spending $1 billion/year on advertising Linux with Compiz vids and stuffFeb 18 13:10
schestowitzAlso photos that only affect perception.. superficial things.Feb 18 13:10
schestowitzBillboards, TV ads, celebrities going down the street with Tux t-shirts.Feb 18 13:10
schestowitzThat's how it's doneFeb 18 13:10
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:10
schestowitzThings are as good as we're led to believeFeb 18 13:10
mib_f25rzqif only it was a bit more userfriendlyFeb 18 13:10
schestowitzNaked emperors and all.Feb 18 13:10
MinceRvista fails in somewhat different ways from xpFeb 18 13:10
mib_f25rzqtoo many morons.. not willing ot relearnFeb 18 13:10
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: different, not user friendly.Feb 18 13:11
MinceRbut overall it's the same shit with a coating of sprinkles of different color.Feb 18 13:11
schestowitzI find it arduous to work with non-Linux OSes because I'm familiar with these.Feb 18 13:11
mib_f25rzqright.. but most of the worldFeb 18 13:11
schestowitzMinceR: : +1Feb 18 13:11
mib_f25rzqis windowsFeb 18 13:11
schestowitzYesFeb 18 13:11
mib_f25rzqyou know?Feb 18 13:11
schestowitzBut it's the issue of habitsFeb 18 13:11
mib_f25rzqits a steep learning curveFeb 18 13:11
schestowitzSo people are lef to believe they need to download tarballs for s/w (like .MSI and .EXE)Feb 18 13:12
schestowitz*ledFeb 18 13:12
mib_f25rzqive been up all night messing with this thing and i feel like i just scratched the surfaceFeb 18 13:12
mib_f25rzqand i work in ITFeb 18 13:12
schestowitzBut it's a lot more cumbersome, difficult (how do you find the sites) and it's a huge security riskFeb 18 13:12
mib_f25rzqyeahFeb 18 13:12
mib_f25rzqi hearFeb 18 13:12
schestowitzIt can take month to love and years to master, just like any OS or a computer to a totaql LudditeFeb 18 13:13
mib_f25rzqhmmmFeb 18 13:13
mib_f25rzqi guess its a trade off.Feb 18 13:13
schestowitzYesFeb 18 13:13
mib_f25rzqmost of my comps here at home are windows becuase of games and appsFeb 18 13:14
schestowitzTry Wine at some stageFeb 18 13:14
schestowitzIt might help the transitionFeb 18 13:14
schestowitzAlso see if Synaptic has VirtualboxFeb 18 13:14
mib_f25rzqi tried it.. it let me use wordFeb 18 13:14
mib_f25rzqbut not much else in officeFeb 18 13:15
schestowitzYou might be able to quickly install software that will run Windows under UbuntuFeb 18 13:15
mib_f25rzqrun windows under ubuntu?Feb 18 13:15
mib_f25rzqwhats the point?Feb 18 13:15
schestowitzCrossOver does Office 2007Feb 18 13:15
mib_f25rzqoh it does?Feb 18 13:15
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: not multi-bootingFeb 18 13:15
mib_f25rzqwhere can i get it?Feb 18 13:15
mib_f25rzqis it free?Feb 18 13:15
schestowitzIt was for a dayFeb 18 13:15
mib_f25rzqeh??Feb 18 13:15
schestowitzhttp://www.codeweavers.com/Feb 18 13:16
schestowitzhttp://www.winehq.org/Feb 18 13:16
mib_f25rzqwine is installed on hereFeb 18 13:17
schestowitzThere's also BordeauxFeb 18 13:17
mib_f25rzqeh?Feb 18 13:17
schestowitzBut better to phase out the Windows applicationsFeb 18 13:17
schestowitzThat's not what Linux is aboutFeb 18 13:17
mib_f25rzqcrossover is not freeFeb 18 13:17
schestowitzMigrate to ODF and be done with itFeb 18 13:17
mib_f25rzqodf?Feb 18 13:18
schestowitzIn a transition phase, using some old applications may helpFeb 18 13:18
schestowitzOpenDocument format (ODF)Feb 18 13:18
mib_f25rzqahFeb 18 13:18
mib_f25rzqnot an option. i work in a windows only shop with vista and 2007Feb 18 13:18
schestowitzIt's cross-platform and cross-appFeb 18 13:18
mib_f25rzqunless odf can now open docxFeb 18 13:18
schestowitzOffice is Office is Office (Microsoft Office)Feb 18 13:18
mib_f25rzqthen im out of luckFeb 18 13:18
schestowitzRedeem your data from MicrosoftFeb 18 13:18
schestowitzDOCX is poisonFeb 18 13:19
schestowitzIt's intended to imprison people inside Office.Feb 18 13:19
mib_f25rzqah huhFeb 18 13:19
mib_f25rzqbut not my callFeb 18 13:19
mib_f25rzqit is what it is and it is whats usedFeb 18 13:19
schestowitzBut if you have Office, then export/covert all docx to .doc, then open in OpenOffice and save as ODFFeb 18 13:19
schestowitzdocx is also a peer upgrade strategyFeb 18 13:20
schestowitzMicrosoft can pressure people to 'upgrade' Office if they receive those badly formed formatsFeb 18 13:20
mib_f25rzqi know.... but that doesnt change the fact that 99 percentof the university i work at uses itFeb 18 13:20
schestowitzdocx?Feb 18 13:20
schestowitzThey must use open formatsFeb 18 13:21
schestowitzDOCX is corruption.. literally.Feb 18 13:21
schestowitzMicrosoft committed crimes for it.Feb 18 13:21
mib_f25rzqyou arent listening..Feb 18 13:21
schestowitzThe EU is still investigating with fines likelyFeb 18 13:21
mib_f25rzqi hear your issue, but it doesnt change factsFeb 18 13:21
mib_f25rzqthey all work with it. and so i must work with itFeb 18 13:21
schestowitzThe university makes no PDFs available?Feb 18 13:22
schestowitzWhich university is this?Feb 18 13:22
mib_f25rzqoh they do, but they dont use adobe for word documentsFeb 18 13:22
mib_f25rzqYUFeb 18 13:22
schestowitzYou can kindly ask them to make ODF versionsFeb 18 13:23
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schestowitzODF is the international open standardFeb 18 13:23
schestowitzIt's only reasonable to inform themFeb 18 13:23
mib_f25rzqodf is the international open standard?Feb 18 13:24
schestowitzElse they basically force students to purchase non-Free software from a convicted monopolistFeb 18 13:24
mib_f25rzqbut most of the world uses msFeb 18 13:24
schestowitzI.e. serving as "agents of monopolisation"Feb 18 13:24
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: they can use standardsFeb 18 13:24
schestowitzMicrosoft should support standards tooFeb 18 13:24
mib_f25rzqthey actually give students office student edition to all new studetnsFeb 18 13:24
schestowitzYou can access Web sites from many platforms because of standards.Feb 18 13:24
mib_f25rzqi configure for most of themFeb 18 13:24
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schestowitzmib_f25rzq: that's addictionwareFeb 18 13:25
mib_f25rzqokay, i hear what you are saying but againFeb 18 13:25
schestowitzIt's a 'free sample' (as in free drugs) to make people's data and skills dependent on this one companyFeb 18 13:25
mib_f25rzqit is what it isFeb 18 13:25
schestowitzThey later become paying customerFeb 18 13:25
schestowitz*mersFeb 18 13:25
oiaohm_People don't read the fine print of the student version either.Feb 18 13:25
mib_f25rzqright but most are already paying customersFeb 18 13:25
mib_f25rzqmost are already ms customersFeb 18 13:25
oiaohm_Basically says what every you produce with it MS can release commerically.Feb 18 13:25
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: okay, they should be given choiseFeb 18 13:25
oiaohm_But you cannot.Feb 18 13:25
schestowitz*choiceFeb 18 13:25
mib_f25rzqmost users in this country are ms customersFeb 18 13:25
schestowitzDOCX is about giving no choiceFeb 18 13:26
mib_f25rzqwell they can save it as socFeb 18 13:26
mib_f25rzqbut most dont botherFeb 18 13:26
schestowitzIt's about instructing people to pay those who commit crimesFeb 18 13:26
mib_f25rzq*docFeb 18 13:26
mib_f25rzqwhats crimes?Feb 18 13:26
schestowitzManyFeb 18 13:26
schestowitzYou don't know yet?Feb 18 13:26
mib_f25rzqi dont know of any crimes, i know they were convicted of monopolyFeb 18 13:27
schestowitzBlackmail, bribery, bullying, extortion, obstruction of justice, etc.Feb 18 13:27
mib_f25rzqbut alot of companies areFeb 18 13:27
schestowitzNot a lot of companiesFeb 18 13:27
mib_f25rzqyesFeb 18 13:27
schestowitzAnd that's not the crimeFeb 18 13:27
mib_f25rzqalot of companiesFeb 18 13:27
mib_f25rzqif they were a criminal org, they wouldnt stll be in businessFeb 18 13:27
schestowitzMonopoly abuse is separate for criminal activities.Feb 18 13:27
schestowitzPeople are not being told about this sufficiently.Feb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqi have to tell you, i installed this this morning to test it outFeb 18 13:28
schestowitzMany companies own -- literally -- the press outlets.Feb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqand i want to learn linusFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqlinuxFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqbut thisFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqwhat youa re dongFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqdoingFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqwould turn anyone offFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqi dont give a shit what ms did or doesFeb 18 13:28
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: OK, you can ignore thisFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqthey are my cread and butterFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqbread and butterFeb 18 13:28
mib_f25rzqtruth be toldFeb 18 13:28
schestowitzOKFeb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqi havent paid for anything ms in almost a decadeFeb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqbut i use it everydayFeb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqand i want to learn moreFeb 18 13:29
schestowitzI offer you the learning of other things.Feb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqbut you spent the last ten minutes. not teaching me linux. but spouting your haite for msFeb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqwhich i really dont needFeb 18 13:29
schestowitzYou don't want to listen to it.Feb 18 13:29
schestowitzBut that's fair.Feb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqyou are right i dontFeb 18 13:29
*zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 13:29
schestowitzI don't blame you.Feb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqi want to learn linuxFeb 18 13:29
mib_f25rzqi dong give a shit about msFeb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqor how you feel about themFeb 18 13:30
schestowitzThere is no "hate" here.Feb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqi want to learn how to use this osFeb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqthats itFeb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqyoure hate is transparentFeb 18 13:30
schestowitzNo more than say... a thief hates the policeman who caught himFeb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqnonsense..Feb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqwhat has ms done to you?Feb 18 13:30
zer0c00lmib_f25rzq:  install linuxFeb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqwhat has ms dont to you personally?Feb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqare you using ms products?Feb 18 13:30
schestowitzSmears.Feb 18 13:30
mib_f25rzqare you using anything ms right now?Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzYou think they are innocent, eh? Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzNo, I don;t.Feb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqare you using anything ms?Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzI don't use Microsoft anything.Feb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqthen how are they affection you?Feb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqhow?Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzSmear campaignsFeb 18 13:31
oiaohm_I don't use Microsoft anything either at home.Feb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqsmear?Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzHurting friendsFeb 18 13:31
oiaohm_Work I have to.Feb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqagainst you?Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzAttacking a countrt's budgetsFeb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqcountry:/Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzTaking my Internet down with zombie PCsFeb 18 13:31
mib_f25rzqwhat country?Feb 18 13:31
schestowitzTaking tax money using illegal deals.Feb 18 13:32
schestowitzUKFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzMOU....Feb 18 13:32
mib_f25rzqms creating internet zombies?Feb 18 13:32
schestowitzCollusionFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzYesFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzShoddy softwareFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzIt clogs up the WebFeb 18 13:32
mib_f25rzqshoddy softwareFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzResponsible for all the SPAM we all getFeb 18 13:32
mib_f25rzqrightFeb 18 13:32
zer0c00lpollutes the networkFeb 18 13:32
mib_f25rzqnow you arent making any sense at allFeb 18 13:32
oiaohm_Against me directly tried to discredit me to my boss when I had found a secuirty flaw.   Said I was incompetent coder in a Letter to my boss mib_f25rzq that was nasty.Feb 18 13:32
zer0c00lyeahFeb 18 13:32
schestowitz100,000,000,000 SPAM per dayFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzThanks to bad engineering of WindowsFeb 18 13:32
mib_f25rzqah huhFeb 18 13:32
schestowitzRight.Feb 18 13:32
oiaohm_Microsoft and me not on Likely terms.Feb 18 13:33
schestowitzActually, it's more than that.Feb 18 13:33
schestowitz150 billion/day the last time I checkedFeb 18 13:33
mib_f25rzqah huhFeb 18 13:33
oiaohm_NT design should be solid.Feb 18 13:33
mib_f25rzqagains. what does this have to do with anything? these are spammers who are doing it not msFeb 18 13:33
schestowitzNoFeb 18 13:33
schestowitzThat;s the spinFeb 18 13:33
mib_f25rzqhow can you blame ms for spammers?Feb 18 13:33
schestowitzSee this morning's postFeb 18 13:33
mib_f25rzqthats the spin?Feb 18 13:33
oiaohm_But along the way MS has traded away secreity for performance.Feb 18 13:33
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/1...Feb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqms had done what consuemers wantFeb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqntohing moreFeb 18 13:34
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to shift blame to side effectsFeb 18 13:34
oiaohm_Ever notices that windows 2000 running games crashed less than XP running the same game mib_f25rzqFeb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqmost consumers dont want to bother with too much securityFeb 18 13:34
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: consumers?Feb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqno i never noticedFeb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqconsuemrsFeb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqyesFeb 18 13:34
schestowitzYou mean Hollywood and OEMs?Feb 18 13:34
schestowitzConsumers want DRM???Feb 18 13:34
oiaohm_MS removed buffer checking not of XP so now the Direct X is now crashable.Feb 18 13:34
zer0c00llol , today i used local ms exchange  server to send an email in different name (ex: billgates@gmail.com)Feb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqconsumersFeb 18 13:34
mib_f25rzqalmost 300 millions americansFeb 18 13:35
zer0c00l(billgates@microsoft.com)Feb 18 13:35
schestowitzConsumers want forensics and kill switches???Feb 18 13:35
zer0c00lthis is how it helps spammersFeb 18 13:35
oiaohm_2000 every buffer passed to was checked.Feb 18 13:35
mib_f25rzqthis is what the consumers wantFeb 18 13:35
mib_f25rzqit is what it isFeb 18 13:35
oiaohm_Running all services as system highest users on system.Feb 18 13:35
mib_f25rzqthey want ease of useFeb 18 13:35
zer0c00lyeah every one wantsFeb 18 13:35
oiaohm_When NT design allows services to run lower than that.Feb 18 13:35
mib_f25rzqwe all had accounts for uses at my shopFeb 18 13:35
zer0c00lease of useFeb 18 13:35
mib_f25rzqall of themFeb 18 13:35
oiaohm_The list of bad enginering problems in Windows is long.Feb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqand they need permission from admins for anythingFeb 18 13:36
schestowitzzer0c00l: his e-mail is billg, not billgatesFeb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqthey revoltedFeb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqrevoltedFeb 18 13:36
schestowitzMaybe he has a forwarded alias set upFeb 18 13:36
oiaohm_Who needs Admin permission.Feb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqthey forced the administration to force us to give everyone in the building from the president to the lowly sec admin rightsFeb 18 13:36
oiaohm_The bugs are that bad in windows there is way to go from Guest to Admin permissions.Feb 18 13:36
zer0c00lyeah but all them dont want their credit card is being stolen by moronsFeb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqright.Feb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqthere isFeb 18 13:36
mib_f25rzqbut not for your average useFeb 18 13:37
zer0c00lschestowitz: i will change it to billg next timeFeb 18 13:37
mib_f25rzqthere isntFeb 18 13:37
zer0c00l:)Feb 18 13:37
oiaohm_Does it really matter if virus writers can do it mib_f25rzqFeb 18 13:37
mib_f25rzqyour average use doesnt know anything except they arent allowed to do what they wichFeb 18 13:37
mib_f25rzqwish*Feb 18 13:37
oiaohm_So general users cannot use a lower level user to protect there system.Feb 18 13:37
oiaohm_Due to the bugs.Feb 18 13:37
mib_f25rzqyou are preaching to the chior.. but you are missing the pointFeb 18 13:38
mib_f25rzqand this is the problem with fanboys all overFeb 18 13:38
oiaohm_I am a system admin.Feb 18 13:38
mib_f25rzqi gotta get to work.. take care and good luck fighting the evil emprieFeb 18 13:38
zer0c00lhahaha fanboysFeb 18 13:38
oiaohm_I have to clean up systems after they go belly up.Feb 18 13:38
mib_f25rzqbubyeFeb 18 13:38
*zer0c00l wonders whos is a fanboyFeb 18 13:38
oiaohm_So yes it effects me directly.Feb 18 13:38
zer0c00lmib_f25rzq: you are missing the pointFeb 18 13:38
mib_f25rzqwhat point?Feb 18 13:39
oiaohm_Issue is people are effected by MS bugs.Feb 18 13:39
mib_f25rzqwhat point are you trying to make?Feb 18 13:39
oiaohm_Mostly people like me system admins who have to clean the mess up.Feb 18 13:39
mib_f25rzqwhat is the poiint?Feb 18 13:39
mib_f25rzqrightFeb 18 13:39
mib_f25rzqso?Feb 18 13:39
oiaohm_Then having MS undermine you.Feb 18 13:39
oiaohm_Hate of them grows with cause.Feb 18 13:39
zer0c00l1 year back there was a worm outbreak it affected all the comps in ma schoolFeb 18 13:40
mib_f25rzqseems only a few people hate them.. and many more love themFeb 18 13:40
zer0c00lthe productivity loss it about 24* 7 hoursFeb 18 13:40
oiaohm_Good marketing mib_f25rzqFeb 18 13:40
mib_f25rzqim not marketingFeb 18 13:40
mib_f25rzqim just being honestFeb 18 13:40
mib_f25rzqrealisticFeb 18 13:40
zer0c00llove..?Feb 18 13:40
oiaohm_I like one here that they sold a stick in a bag for 5 dollars.Feb 18 13:40
oiaohm_Yes just a crappy stick.Feb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzq?Feb 18 13:41
oiaohm_Its supprising what good advertising can do.Feb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzq.....Feb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzqsee what i meanFeb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzqi just came on here looking for some help with linuxFeb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzqnowFeb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzqim disgustedFeb 18 13:41
mib_f25rzqwowFeb 18 13:42
mib_f25rzqniceFeb 18 13:42
oiaohm_Yes and many people loved that stick too.Feb 18 13:42
zer0c00lbetter go #fedoraFeb 18 13:42
mib_f25rzqfedora?Feb 18 13:42
mib_f25rzqi tried thatFeb 18 13:42
oiaohm_So you don't need to sell a good product.Feb 18 13:42
mib_f25rzqi didnt like it too muchFeb 18 13:42
zer0c00lohFeb 18 13:42
zer0c00lthenFeb 18 13:42
oiaohm_You only need to make the mass blieve its a good product.Feb 18 13:42
oiaohm_Then the mass will force it on those who know better.Feb 18 13:42
*NeonFloss has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Feb 18 13:42
oiaohm_Only one problem one day you screw up big enough people start spoting the trick.Feb 18 13:43
zer0c00lsee do you know why people are using M$ products because M$ is failing each time it releases a productFeb 18 13:43
zer0c00lThey promise that the next product will be betterFeb 18 13:43
zer0c00lso people go and buy their next productFeb 18 13:44
zer0c00land this circle goes on...Feb 18 13:44
zer0c00lits like political manifestoFeb 18 13:44
schestowitznatham from Microsoft talks about thisFeb 18 13:44
schestowitzThey lie knowinglyFeb 18 13:44
schestowitzto "freeze the market," as Microsoft explains itFeb 18 13:44
schestowitzIt's against the lawFeb 18 13:44
schestowitzCaldera sued Microsoft for itFeb 18 13:45
zer0c00lthey keep telling people they are good and never give good productFeb 18 13:45
schestowitzIt's like Hollyowood. Promise people dreamsFeb 18 13:45
zer0c00lyeahFeb 18 13:45
schestowitz2002: Longhorn will be out real soon nowFeb 18 13:45
mib_f25rzqwow...Feb 18 13:45
schestowitz2003: Longhorn coming.Feb 18 13:45
mib_f25rzqwow..Feb 18 13:45
zer0c00lWOW is NOWFeb 18 13:45
schestowitz2004: Vista, vista... it'll be wonderful.. don't explore alternativesFeb 18 13:45
zer0c00lA** hole is hereFeb 18 13:45
schestowitz2005: development collapseFeb 18 13:45
zer0c00lhahahaFeb 18 13:45
zer0c00l:DFeb 18 13:45
schestowitzTo use their own wordsFeb 18 13:45
schestowitz"Reboot" it what Ballmer called itFeb 18 13:46
zer0c00lthey change the theme each time thats itFeb 18 13:46
schestowitzThat's not fair to consumersFeb 18 13:46
schestowitzThey make them deludedFeb 18 13:46
mib_f25rzqits like im not even here... just letting you two prattle on about nothingFeb 18 13:46
schestowitzAnother delivered message is that "it's all bad"Feb 18 13:46
schestowitzMS: "all systems are not secure"Feb 18 13:46
schestowitzMS: "all companies are evil"Feb 18 13:46
schestowitzMS: "all companies abuse a monopoly"Feb 18 13:46
schestowitzMS: "we are cvictums"Feb 18 13:46
schestowitz*victimsFeb 18 13:47
zer0c00l*victimsFeb 18 13:47
zer0c00lyeahFeb 18 13:47
*mib_f25rzq has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Feb 18 13:47
schestowitzmib_f25rzq: let's look beyonfd thisFeb 18 13:47
schestowitzHeh. He leftFeb 18 13:47
zer0c00lhahahaFeb 18 13:47
zer0c00l:)Feb 18 13:47
oiaohm_O well I don't think he liked it.Feb 18 13:47
zer0c00lliked what?Feb 18 13:47
oiaohm_Linux  binary compadiblity the lack of is one of my favorate myths.(liked that there was not a hope in hell to convert us)Feb 18 13:48
zer0c00lanother M$ addict i guessFeb 18 13:48
oiaohm_Its comes up and comes up.Feb 18 13:48
schestowitzYesFeb 18 13:48
schestowitzSeen the Allchin memo?Feb 18 13:48
oiaohm_Technically there is no binary compadiblity issue with Linux.Feb 18 13:48
schestowitzHe talks about spereading this type of myth.Feb 18 13:48
zer0c00lohFeb 18 13:48
schestowitzI exposed this last month (Comes memos)Feb 18 13:48
oiaohm_Just lack of people knowing how to build cross distribution packages.Feb 18 13:48
zer0c00lreally?Feb 18 13:49
oiaohm_Really.Feb 18 13:49
zer0c00loiaohm really?Feb 18 13:49
schestowitzAllchin suggested that upgrading... say.. Fedora... requires recompiling programs.Feb 18 13:49
schestowitzHe hasn't a clueFeb 18 13:49
schestowitzJust FUDFeb 18 13:49
oiaohm_When was the last time you requested a generic package for all distributions from someone.  zer0c00lFeb 18 13:49
zer0c00lno i never requestedFeb 18 13:49
oiaohm_0install and Autopackage both exist of course.Feb 18 13:49
zer0c00lohFeb 18 13:50
oiaohm_That can create package that are distribution netural.Feb 18 13:50
schestowitzWhen someone comes into a boycottnovell chat to defend Microsoft, then always be suspicious.Feb 18 13:50
zer0c00lthen why they are not doing thisFeb 18 13:50
schestowitzIf people need help, they go to #ubuntu or  #fedora or somethingFeb 18 13:50
oiaohm_Its a chicken and egg problem.Feb 18 13:50
schestowitzSo this may have been bairFeb 18 13:50
schestowitz*baitFeb 18 13:50
zer0c00lbait?Feb 18 13:50
zer0c00lyeahFeb 18 13:50
schestowitzThe only people who would came HERE for help with Linux are those who do this because of disgust with illegal behaviourFeb 18 13:51


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