To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | That's BS | Mar 12 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | It's not the first | Mar 12 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Gregg Keizer has not been paying attention | Mar 12 00:00 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft says Linux is secure just because it's used by 'few' (which is not true by the way) | Mar 12 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Is Vista7 already widely deployed then? | Mar 12 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Or is it just Vista, aka XP redone badly | Mar 12 00:01 |
| trmanco | http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=05372 | Mar 12 00:03 |
| trmanco | not it's really vista done in a different way | Mar 12 00:03 |
| trmanco | think of it, XP the good, Vista the bad and 7 the ugly, this thinking only in microfoot's OSes | Mar 12 00:04 |
| schestowitz | :-) :-) | Mar 12 00:07 |
| schestowitz | XP was no good, either | Mar 12 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Compared to Vista it might seem good | Mar 12 00:07 |
| Balrog | compared to vista, XP works | Mar 12 00:07 |
| Balrog | XP becomes useless after 3-6 months of me using it though | Mar 12 00:08 |
| Balrog | tells a lot about its stability | Mar 12 00:08 |
| trmanco | http://magazine.redhat.com/2009/03/10/ri... | Mar 12 00:09 |
| trmanco | this is what I call a somewhat legitimate security report | Mar 12 00:09 |
| schestowitz | "Mozila [...] NOT!" | Mar 12 00:11 |
| schestowitz | That's Microsoft attitude | Mar 12 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Borat like. | Mar 12 00:11 |
| schestowitz | They hire 'professionals' | Mar 12 00:11 |
| schestowitz | To write in their buddy platform, IDG | Mar 12 00:11 |
| schestowitz | brb | Mar 12 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft sells kids: Child offered for sale on Xbox Live < http://www.reghardware.co... > | Mar 12 00:15 |
| schestowitz | National Semiconductor to lay off 1,725 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/... >; Spansion gets Nasdaq delisting notice < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >. There was an article earlier about recreating forests using out-of-work people. | Mar 12 00:16 |
| schestowitz | is Sun trying to steal the thunder from kernel.org (Linux)? http://www.itwire.com/con... It also tried 'stealing' "LAMP" | Mar 12 00:20 |
| balzac | The reason M$ software still sucks after all these decades is that their software doesn't arise from social integrity. *nix software has the academic and scientific community's social integrity from which a higher level of general integration has emerged | Mar 12 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Wow! "47% of the German GNU/Linux server market share is Debian. That doesn't count Ubuntu Server Edition, Centos, Fedora, Slackware, and other less well known and also freely available distributions." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php... | Mar 12 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Wow again. "Fedora 10 has been gaining new users at impressive rates. This past week alone Fedora 10 has picked up over 100,000 more. " http://californiaquantum.wordpress... | Mar 12 00:26 |
| schestowitz | In BN, 1 in 3 Linux users is a Ubuntu user | Mar 12 00:29 |
| Balrog | anything wrong with Ubuntu? | Mar 12 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Windows has a market share of 44% at most | Mar 12 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: not at all. | Mar 12 00:30 |
| schestowitz | I like Debian | Mar 12 00:30 |
| Balrog | I set up a new user with XP / Ubuntu (dual boot) ... good idea? He won't do without windows, so is that fine? | Mar 12 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Because it's not tied to investors | Mar 12 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: well done. | Mar 12 00:31 |
| Balrog | Debian is good, but for new users? | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Maybe. Why not? | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | If you set it up for them | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Or preload it | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Like MEPIS | Mar 12 00:31 |
| Balrog | The people at our univ. don't support ubuntu, only fedora, so I'm supporting it :) | Mar 12 00:31 |
| Balrog | (for him) | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Or Xandros which is based on it too | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Knoppix.. | Mar 12 00:31 |
| Balrog | we use Knoppix for diag | Mar 12 00:31 |
| Balrog | here | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | Mar 12 00:31 |
| schestowitz | I'm impressed with how quickly it gains | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | No wonder MS is suing | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | And throwing out XP for $5 apiece | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | Take it, just take it! | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | "Just don't use this Lunix thing" | Mar 12 00:32 |
| Balrog | heh | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | They go aggressve like this in India and Brazil | Mar 12 00:32 |
| Balrog | here we have MSDN XP and Vista | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | They blame "piracy". They don't say the L word | Mar 12 00:32 |
| Balrog | though no-one uses vista | Mar 12 00:32 |
| schestowitz | It might give people ideas | Mar 12 00:33 |
| schestowitz | And dumping is euphemised as "chairity" | Mar 12 00:33 |
| Balrog | heh yeah | Mar 12 00:33 |
| Balrog | but what about free software...???? | Mar 12 00:33 |
| schestowitz | gratis | Mar 12 00:33 |
| Balrog | meaning real free | Mar 12 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Gates says MS does free software | Mar 12 00:33 |
| Balrog | foss | Mar 12 00:33 |
| Balrog | well it's not free if anyone can't get it for free | Mar 12 00:34 |
| schestowitz | And "then there's this thing called the GPL, which we disgree with" (Gate, April 2004 talk) | Mar 12 00:34 |
| Balrog | if a school gets it free and a business has to pay for it, you can't call it free | Mar 12 00:34 |
| Balrog | if they disagree with GPL, why not use a GPL-incompatible FOSS license like CDDL? | Mar 12 00:34 |
| Balrog | it's still FOSS.... | Mar 12 00:34 |
| schestowitz | Yeah.. | Mar 12 00:34 |
| schestowitz | They use CDDL? | Mar 12 00:34 |
| schestowitz | MS uses Novell to touch GPL | Mar 12 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Citrix too is a GPL 'proxy' | Mar 12 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft can't touch it | Mar 12 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft preaches in microsoft.com that GPL is evil and all.. | Mar 12 00:35 |
| Balrog | I know some people who don't like GPL because it's viral | Mar 12 00:35 |
| Balrog | :/ | Mar 12 00:37 |
| Balrog | what's better for a new user: kde or gnome? | Mar 12 00:37 |
| schestowitz | depends... | Mar 12 00:38 |
| *schestowitz eats | Mar 12 00:38 | |
| schestowitz | advaNCED N00B? | Mar 12 00:39 |
| Balrog | someone who's used to XP and visual studio and all | Mar 12 00:39 |
| schestowitz | or total n00b? | Mar 12 00:39 |
| schestowitz | kde4 then? | Mar 12 00:39 |
| Balrog | nope, an experienced one | Mar 12 00:39 |
| Balrog | but zero knowledge of anything unix | Mar 12 00:39 |
| schestowitz | linus tried 4.0 | Mar 12 00:39 |
| schestowitz | big mistake | Mar 12 00:40 |
| schestowitz | too early | Mar 12 00:40 |
| Balrog | yes absolutely | Mar 12 00:40 |
| Balrog | though gnome is much cleaner than ked | Mar 12 00:40 |
| Balrog | kde * | Mar 12 00:40 |
| Balrog | I put in gnome kde AND xfce | Mar 12 00:41 |
| balzac | http://www.pcmech.com/article/good-lin... | Mar 12 00:43 |
| balzac | what a clown | Mar 12 00:44 |
| balzac | [#boycottnovell] Pu! I#[7m@Ym not a #[7m@\Linux Zealot#[7m@]. I#[7m@Ym a GNU user. Microsoft can take their software patents and stuff them. | Mar 12 00:45 |
| balzac | oops | Mar 12 00:45 |
| Balrog | good linux users complain big-time about MS | Mar 12 00:45 |
| balzac | how do those trashy characters get in there... | Mar 12 00:45 |
| schestowitz | balzac: yes, seen the headline earlier, not the article | Mar 12 00:45 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like the fools who later wonder about lawsuits | Mar 12 00:46 |
| balzac | The guy says "to Linux Zealots fsck you!" | Mar 12 00:46 |
| schestowitz | And software patents in Europe and all.. | Mar 12 00:46 |
| Balrog | especially about everything that MS does that causes PROBLEMS in linux | Mar 12 00:46 |
| Balrog | like silver light | Mar 12 00:46 |
| Balrog | D= | Mar 12 00:46 |
| schestowitz | It's intentional | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Remember memos | Mar 12 00:47 |
| Balrog | yeah I know | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | "Under NO circumstances lose to Linux" | Mar 12 00:47 |
| Balrog | yes. | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | "We need to innovate beyond/above standards" | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | I.e. we need to make things that won't work in Linux | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | "There will be a lawsuit against Linux" | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Etc etc. | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | SCO suit | Mar 12 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Old debate anyway | Mar 12 00:48 |
| schestowitz | When people bring it up then... hold on. | Mar 12 00:48 |
| balzac | No, Rich Menga, fsck you! I'm not a "Linux Zealot". I'm a GNU user. And Microsoft can take their software patents and stuff them. M$ stinks! | Mar 12 00:48 |
| schestowitz | See picture: http://slated.org/why_do... | Mar 12 00:48 |
| balzac | He said "To Linux zealots - fsck you!" | Mar 12 00:48 |
| balzac | The best comeback to "fsck you" is "no, fsck you" | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: in Popular Mechanics, eh? | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I'd rather not fight them | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Watse of energy | Mar 12 00:49 |
| Balrog | name mixup fail | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Civil wars | Mar 12 00:49 |
| balzac | learned that one in an Ahnuld Gropenfuhrer movie | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Let's keep up the good work exposing Microsoft | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I've known people who changed from MS apathy to something else | Mar 12 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Because they saw Comes stuff for example | Mar 12 00:50 |
| schestowitz | They wears off the "we've changes... the New Microsoft" makeup | Mar 12 00:50 |
| balzac | Roy, it doesn't cost me much energy to return a "fsck you" back to it's rightful owner. | Mar 12 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Adobe neglects UNIX/Linux again: http://www.pcworld.com/article/16109... "The fix is only available for version 9, with an update for older 7 and 8 versions expected by March 18, the company says. Unix users will need to wait until March 25 for an update." | Mar 12 00:55 |
| schestowitz | balzac: yes, but we make things worse by aggravating further the wrong people | Mar 12 00:55 |
| Balrog | adobe doesn't care for linux | Mar 12 00:55 |
| schestowitz | I think: | Mar 12 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Ignore his post | Mar 12 00:55 |
| balzac | Who cares about Adobe. I'm neglecting them now, after 10 years of photoshop | Mar 12 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Analyse something like Comes | Mar 12 00:56 |
| balzac | Roy, I don't agree. | Mar 12 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Then show him | Mar 12 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Let him make own mind | Mar 12 00:56 |
| schestowitz | I heard the name Rich Menga before. | Mar 12 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Let me check. | Mar 12 00:56 |
| balzac | he can make up his own mind, but he can also get back what he puts out | Mar 12 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Haha. http://www.menga.net/2004/08/22/linux-n... | Mar 12 00:57 |
| balzac | It was a douchey article | Mar 12 00:57 |
| schestowitz | Anti Linux? | Mar 12 00:57 |
| schestowitz | balzac: I didn't read the article | Mar 12 00:57 |
| balzac | who is he to go on about who is or isn't a good "linux" user? | Mar 12 00:57 |
| schestowitz | It seemed like it would only annoy me | Mar 12 00:57 |
| schestowitz | Also from him: Would The Internet Exist Without Linux? < http://www.pcmech.com/article/woul... > | Mar 12 00:57 |
| schestowitz | balzac: agreed | Mar 12 00:58 |
| schestowitz | To say who is "good" is wrong | Mar 12 00:58 |
| balzac | Roy, i always like to raise the ante when i'm right because it makes it that much more fun to be victorious. | Mar 12 00:58 |
| schestowitz | But I didn't read it | Mar 12 00:58 |
| schestowitz | He hardly writes about Linux | Mar 12 00:58 |
| balzac | honestly, I pity fools who go on like that with no substance at all. | Mar 12 00:58 |
| schestowitz | But... he's not our enemy | Mar 12 00:59 |
| schestowitz | I learned the same about Matt asay | Mar 12 00:59 |
| schestowitz | Better to be diplomatic | Mar 12 00:59 |
| balzac | not an enemey at all, just a douchey software pundit | Mar 12 00:59 |
| schestowitz | He's like friends with many of us... just not 100% in agreement... but why alienate if we can use him on 'our team'? | Mar 12 00:59 |
| balzac | naw man, it's funny to do verbal retaliation. it's fun and sporting to talk trash anyway. | Mar 12 01:00 |
| schestowitz | This reminds me... | Mar 12 01:00 |
| Balrog | the internet would suck without linux | Mar 12 01:00 |
| balzac | Roy, that's a failing strategy | Mar 12 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Some people act as self-appointed spokespeople on matters | Mar 12 01:00 |
| schestowitz | It's not fair | Mar 12 01:00 |
| schestowitz | Like Microsoft on OSS | Mar 12 01:00 |
| schestowitz | "move over RMS.. Microsoft knows OSS better" | Mar 12 01:00 |
| schestowitz | OSS | Mar 12 01:00 |
| balzac | he wants to waltz into the "linux community" and talk trash about FSF/GNU people? | Mar 12 01:01 |
| schestowitz | Not FOSS | Mar 12 01:01 |
| balzac | fsck him | Mar 12 01:01 |
| balzac | exactly | Mar 12 01:01 |
| schestowitz | "If you care about money, don't follow RMS" -- Microsoft | Mar 12 01:01 |
| schestowitz | Like RMS on Linus and freedom | Mar 12 01:01 |
| balzac | fine, but I'll fight for the money too. | Mar 12 01:01 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Mar 12 01:01 |
| balzac | i love fighting over money | Mar 12 01:02 |
| balzac | if there's no fight, there probably isn't much money involved | Mar 12 01:02 |
| balzac | no fight, no glory | Mar 12 01:02 |
| balzac | grab glory! | Mar 12 01:02 |
| balzac | grab money and then count it in gnu cash | Mar 12 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. gnucash | Mar 12 01:04 |
| balzac | besides, the guy wasn't just talking trash about free software users, he was directly saying FU! | Mar 12 01:04 |
| schestowitz | Yes, so you say | Mar 12 01:04 |
| balzac | there's a difference between misunderstanding and overtly, gratuitously insulting | Mar 12 01:04 |
| schestowitz | I won't read it cause then I might go ballistic | Mar 12 01:04 |
| balzac | well, he said FU to you, Roy. | Mar 12 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Like this: | Mar 12 01:05 |
| schestowitz | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commo... | Mar 12 01:05 |
| schestowitz | balzac: I say g'day back | Mar 12 01:05 |
| balzac | Actually, I respect a guy more who says "FU" directly rather than just lying and pretending not to be hostile. | Mar 12 01:05 |
| schestowitz | He can talk to the hand | Mar 12 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Also, it's bad to give him attention | Mar 12 01:05 |
| schestowitz | Or to the artcle | Mar 12 01:06 |
| schestowitz | I avoid Enderle crap for this reason | Mar 12 01:06 |
| balzac | I disagree | Mar 12 01:06 |
| schestowitz | So do other editors, bar lxer | Mar 12 01:06 |
| schestowitz | If you feed them, they'll drool more | Mar 12 01:06 |
| balzac | It's good to go and verbally-clash until they cry out "can't we all just get along?" | Mar 12 01:07 |
| balzac | Then you say "ha. i knew you were a cry-baby." | Mar 12 01:07 |
| balzac | jk | Mar 12 01:07 |
| balzac | No mercy! Kobra Kai! | Mar 12 01:08 |
| balzac | At the end of the day, it's only joking around. | Mar 12 01:10 |
| schestowitz | Can you picture Ballmer saying "can't we all just get along?" | Mar 12 01:11 |
| schestowitz | As opposed to say, Cisco's CEO? Chambers, right? | Mar 12 01:12 |
| schestowitz | PCLinuxOS 2009.1 Final Released < http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.p... >. Stupid Munckins in USENET tried to debunk this. | Mar 12 01:12 |
| balzac | But I got into a debate with this one guy who was actually an "open source" guy. He ended up comparing the FSF to Hamas. | Mar 12 01:12 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Mar 12 01:12 |
| balzac | Then he edited his comment to take that out, but I already had seen his first comment. | Mar 12 01:13 |
| schestowitz | Hamas promotes extreme action | Mar 12 01:13 |
| schestowitz | FSF promotes freedom and harmony | Mar 12 01:13 |
| schestowitz | it's like comparing the hippies to some US militia | Mar 12 01:13 |
| balzac | yeah, that was an example of the greater internet fuckwad theory: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2004... | Mar 12 01:14 |
| balzac | I won't name names, but I was pretty disappointed in that guy. Even M$ isn't that nasty, and this was an "open source" guy writing for a free software branded publication | Mar 12 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Kool-Aid here: Critical Mass < http://danlynch.org/blog/2009... > | Mar 12 01:16 |
| Balrog | is there a page that shows what percentage of servers online are Windows and what % are linux and other OS? | Mar 12 01:19 |
| Balrog | I thought netcraft had something of that nature | Mar 12 01:19 |
| Balrog | I need it now. :/ ... someone I know is convinced that 'microsoft rules the world' and that 'php isnt bad, but its unrefined.... its good for some applications, but when you need to handle billions in sales a month, you use asp.net. end of story' | Mar 12 01:19 |
| Balrog | anyone know? | Mar 12 01:20 |
| Balrog | I have to get going, so it would be good to find out. | Mar 12 01:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2... "Ed Bott is doing his best over at ZDNet to spread the Microsoft religion, with the wonders of Windows 7 extolled nearly each day in a new and different way." | Mar 12 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: Web servers? | Mar 12 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer says 60% Linux | Mar 12 01:26 |
| Balrog | yes, he's a web developer that uses ASP.NET | Mar 12 01:26 |
| Balrog | I need verifiable sources online | Mar 12 01:26 |
| balzac | gnu/linux / *nix ? | Mar 12 01:26 |
| schestowitz | I have it from Ballmer | Mar 12 01:27 |
| Balrog | "unbiased" | Mar 12 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Quote | Mar 12 01:27 |
| Balrog | yeah but he won't trust you | Mar 12 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Not even SweatyB? | Mar 12 01:27 |
| Balrog | not if it's from your site | Mar 12 01:27 |
| Balrog | he's sold on it | Mar 12 01:27 |
| schestowitz | No, not mine | Mar 12 01:27 |
| schestowitz | Wintel press | Mar 12 01:27 |
| Balrog | link? | Mar 12 01:27 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter... | Mar 12 01:28 |
| schestowitz | "Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux," he said. "How are we doing? Forty is less than 60, so I don't like it. ... We have some work to do." | Mar 12 01:28 |
| Balrog | also what about | Mar 12 01:28 |
| Balrog | PHP vs. ASP.NET? | Mar 12 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Dunno | Mar 12 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Judge by merit, not # | Mar 12 01:28 |
| Balrog | says 'php isnt bad, but its unrefined.... its good for some applications, but when you need to handle billions in sales a month, you use asp.net. end of story' | Mar 12 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Bushtroopers powered by Linux: http://blog.wired.com/defens... | Mar 12 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: opposite | Mar 12 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Show him the LSE disaster | Mar 12 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Most stock exchanges run UNIX or Linux | Mar 12 01:31 |
| Balrog | says he's tried PHP lately | Mar 12 01:31 |
| Balrog | url? | Mar 12 01:32 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/08... | Mar 12 01:33 |
| Balrog | an external linx | Mar 12 01:33 |
| Balrog | link * | Mar 12 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Use the links there | Mar 12 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Many... about 20 | Mar 12 01:33 |
| schestowitz | You insult BN? ;-) | Mar 12 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Not good enough for ya, PUNK? ;-) | Mar 12 01:33 |
| schestowitz | http://news.opensuse.org/2009/03/1... SUSE fail | Mar 12 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Maybe SUSE was moved to Mono.NET or something ;-) at Novell's behest | Mar 12 01:35 |
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| schestowitz | Another asshole has just forged me.... | Mar 12 01:54 |
| schestowitz | Posted some anti-Linux stuff under my name in USENET :-( | Mar 12 01:54 |
| schestowitz | The server dropped me for a while. | Mar 12 01:56 |
| schestowitz | The following didn't make it through: | Mar 12 01:56 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> You insult BN? ;-) | Mar 12 01:56 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Not good enough for ya, PUNK? ;-) | Mar 12 01:56 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> http://news.opensuse.org/2009/03/10... SUSE fail | Mar 12 01:56 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Maybe SUSE was moved to Mono.NET or something ;-) at Novell's behest | Mar 12 01:56 |
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| balzac | Roy, the only thing you can do about that is to call out the imposter in the same venue. | Mar 12 02:56 |
| balzac | That's really not cool. | Mar 12 02:56 |
| balzac | It's a good thing freenode lets you register your nick | Mar 12 02:56 |
| balzac | That kind of bullsht happens to noam chomsky all the time | Mar 12 02:57 |
| *PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 03:50 | |
| *tessier updates his list of job contacts | Mar 12 03:51 | |
| tessier | How's the market for Linux people? | Mar 12 03:51 |
| tessier | I'm still employed but not for long, I'm sure. | Mar 12 03:51 |
| PeterFA | What I find so funny is that the newer the version of Linux or Free software, the faster it gets. | Mar 12 03:51 |
| PeterFA | KDE4 is faster than 3, Linux 2.6.28 is faster than 2.6.26 | Mar 12 03:51 |
| balzac | lart | Mar 12 04:27 |
| balzac | it's solid i think, if you have some basic wed dev skills and sysadmin skills | Mar 12 04:28 |
| balzac | . | Mar 12 04:44 |
| PeterFA | Anyways, I'm an entrepranuer. How could I make money off of Linux and friends? | Mar 12 04:44 |
| balzac | . | Mar 12 04:44 |
| balzac | PeterFA: start with using it for your daily tasks | Mar 12 04:44 |
| balzac | That's the stage I'm at now, operating as a web developer | Mar 12 04:45 |
| PeterFA | I've been doing that for the past few years :) | Mar 12 04:45 |
| balzac | also some design | Mar 12 04:45 |
| balzac | then... | Mar 12 04:45 |
| balzac | work on your qualifications as a consultant | Mar 12 04:45 |
| balzac | and broker software license deals | Mar 12 04:45 |
| balzac | roll out a bunch of gnu/linux installations with support licenses | Mar 12 04:45 |
| balzac | start first with a free version - it's already better than windows | Mar 12 04:46 |
| balzac | then suggest they buy a few support contracts - even one | Mar 12 04:46 |
| balzac | even if they have 5 ubuntu or redhat installations, get them to buy one support contract at least | Mar 12 04:46 |
| balzac | and broker those deals | Mar 12 04:46 |
| balzac | I'm going to ask clients for a commission on savings, so I don't even have to broker any deals | Mar 12 04:47 |
| balzac | just block any new deals on proprietary software licenses | Mar 12 04:47 |
| balzac | and show them the way to the support chatrooms on freenode | Mar 12 04:47 |
| balzac | get a commission on IT budget savings, the client company doesn't even have to make any new procurements to save and to pay me consulting fees | Mar 12 04:48 |
| balzac | I call myself the proprietary software license reaper | Mar 12 04:48 |
| balzac | enough of these archaic licenses! | Mar 12 04:49 |
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| Omar87 | Hello everyone | Mar 12 05:25 |
| Omar87 | And really, Asus are motherf*&%ers!!! (Sorry for that but it really pissed me off) | Mar 12 05:26 |
| Omar87 | When you browse the EeePC, you find this sentence at to right: "Asus recommends Windows for everyday computing."! | Mar 12 05:28 |
| Omar87 | The bastards..! | Mar 12 05:28 |
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| schestowitz | Morning. | Mar 12 09:07 |
| schestowitz | tessier: it's going well. 100k downloads of Fedora in one week. | Mar 12 09:08 |
| MinceR | j0h0h0 | Mar 12 09:15 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 09:31 | |
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| MinceR | http://news.slashdot.org/article.p... | Mar 12 09:38 |
| schestowitz | They posion government too | Mar 12 09:41 |
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| mib_tkc74k | hi | Mar 12 10:03 |
| schestowitz | Hey there. | Mar 12 10:03 |
| mib_tkc74k | why do you dislike Silverlight? | Mar 12 10:04 |
| schestowitz | It's about turning the Web to Microsoft Web | Mar 12 10:05 |
| mib_tkc74k | how? | Mar 12 10:05 |
| schestowitz | Media in particular | Mar 12 10:05 |
| schestowitz | .NET also | Mar 12 10:05 |
| mib_tkc74k | by forcing users to use silverlight? | Mar 12 10:05 |
| mib_tkc74k | but applications are improving the user expirience | Mar 12 10:07 |
| schestowitz | They are not | Mar 12 10:08 |
| schestowitz | Only to Microsofters | Mar 12 10:08 |
| schestowitz | It's discriminatory by design | Mar 12 10:08 |
| schestowitz | It's also non-standard. | Mar 12 10:08 |
| schestowitz | It's binary Web. | Mar 12 10:08 |
| mib_tkc74k | MS is just targeting for the biggest audience I guess | Mar 12 10:08 |
| mib_tkc74k | and Silverlight works on Mac and Linux too | Mar 12 10:09 |
| oiaohm | Really his a serious point mib_tkc74k MS codecs for moonlight don't work on arm ppc.... processes ie x86 only. | Mar 12 10:09 |
| oiaohm | So no it don't really work on Mac or Linux it only partly works. | Mar 12 10:09 |
| mib_tkc74k | mmokay | Mar 12 10:09 |
| mib_tkc74k | perhaps version 3 will fix that | Mar 12 10:10 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 12 10:10 |
| mib_tkc74k | and why not? | Mar 12 10:10 |
| oiaohm | Codecs from microsoft are binary only. | Mar 12 10:10 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft don't make codecs for any other platforms. | Mar 12 10:10 |
| oiaohm | Other than x86. | Mar 12 10:11 |
| mib_tkc74k | then why do they claim it works on other platforms? | Mar 12 10:11 |
| oiaohm | They are claiming OS as a platform leaving out cpu type. | Mar 12 10:11 |
| oiaohm | arm is required so it works in mobile phones and some cheaper netbooks on the table. | Mar 12 10:11 |
| mib_tkc74k | what is 'arm'? | Mar 12 10:12 |
| oiaohm | Type of processor chip mib_tkc74k | Mar 12 10:12 |
| mib_tkc74k | okay thnx | Mar 12 10:12 |
| oiaohm | That uses way different instruction set to x86 and is very power effective. | Mar 12 10:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes there is a dell laptop with a x86 processor for windows and an arm processor for Linux that will not run moonlight either. | Mar 12 10:13 |
| oiaohm | Linux mode the laptop gets almost 12 hours runtime compared to 4 hours on the windows ie the difference between arm and x86 is massive in power usage. | Mar 12 10:14 |
| oiaohm | Now the problem with locking to a CPU type is the most power effective chip designs that may be created you might to be able to use because of what MS and other do. | Mar 12 10:15 |
| oiaohm | mib_tkc74k: do you not want a laptop that can run for 12 hours straight under load? | Mar 12 10:16 |
| mib_tkc74k | we've got desktops for that.. and my netbook does 6 hours now | Mar 12 10:16 |
| oiaohm | Arm conversion that netbook most likely could do at least 18 hours. | Mar 12 10:17 |
| mib_tkc74k | awesome | Mar 12 10:18 |
| oiaohm | Remember batteries are heavy. | Mar 12 10:18 |
| oiaohm | Windows desktop OS's don't run on ARM. | Mar 12 10:18 |
| oiaohm | Most windows software don't run on ARM either. | Mar 12 10:18 |
| oiaohm | See the problem here lots of people are locked into x86 by there applications and operating system. | Mar 12 10:19 |
| oiaohm | The hidden value of Open Source. | Mar 12 10:20 |
| mib_tkc74k | because everybody else uses it.. | Mar 12 10:20 |
| oiaohm | Go backwards. | Mar 12 10:20 |
| oiaohm | At the start of computing everyone was using different processor types. | Mar 12 10:20 |
| oiaohm | People have allowed this to happen to them. | Mar 12 10:21 |
| oiaohm | Everybody using something is a poor argument. | Mar 12 10:22 |
| oiaohm | Thinking people like me don't use Windows because my job does not require it. To be correct somethings I do cannot be done well on windows. | Mar 12 10:23 |
| mib_tkc74k | that depends on your job I guess | Mar 12 10:23 |
| mib_tkc74k | anyway, lunchtime.. bye! | Mar 12 10:24 |
| *mib_tkc74k (i=c1ac7d82@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0b96392e07dfbb01) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 12 10:24 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: MS defenders are too simple to break. | Mar 12 10:25 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Mar 12 10:33 |
| schestowitz | Silver Lie is not being adopted, so they worry | Mar 12 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft bribes businesses to adopt some and then makes noise about it (PR). Adobe has said this (Independent article, I thin) | Mar 12 10:35 |
| schestowitz | *think | Mar 12 10:35 |
| MinceR | adobe would be the last entity i'd ask about this :> | Mar 12 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Alobby | Mar 12 10:41 |
| oiaohm | Adobe can be as bad as Microsoft. | Mar 12 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Atheist Life vs Religious Life < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaO... > | Mar 12 11:02 |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 11:40 | |
| oiaohm | Hmm buddist really dis argree with most of what he is saying. | Mar 12 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Ie that is only Atheist that believe that. | Mar 12 11:47 |
| Eruaran | hello | Mar 12 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Hi Eruaran | Mar 12 11:50 |
| Eruaran | Any interesting developments ? | Mar 12 11:50 |
| oiaohm | Other than a person trying to make moonlight sound positive not much. | Mar 12 11:51 |
| Eruaran | I used to suggest they go get a job at Redmond | Mar 12 11:52 |
| Eruaran | But I don't think Redmond is hiring anymore ;) | Mar 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Mar 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | They cut wages too, so people will find a more ethical job | Mar 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | It's important to remember how many jobs Microsoft destroyes | Mar 12 11:53 |
| schestowitz | *yed | Mar 12 11:53 |
| Eruaran | yes | Mar 12 11:53 |
| schestowitz | And how many jobs will be created once it's being 'Unisysed' | Mar 12 11:53 |
| Eruaran | A customer came in today asking for a netbook with a ssd and linux | Mar 12 11:54 |
| Eruaran | we found they are thin on the ground | Mar 12 11:54 |
| oiaohm | So they are. | Mar 12 11:54 |
| oiaohm | I am having more companies asking me about software cost cutting. | Mar 12 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Good for business really. | Mar 12 11:55 |
| Eruaran | So, the articles announcing victory for XP based on real demand are false... the reality is the customers who want them cant get them | Mar 12 11:55 |
| Eruaran | The only Asus models available with Linux are the original 7" ones | Mar 12 11:56 |
| Eruaran | The rest are Windows | Mar 12 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: the US/AU is not 'world' | Mar 12 11:57 |
| schestowitz | The Linux sub-notebooks are big in the EU | Mar 12 11:57 |
| Eruaran | So, this guy is going to buy one of the Atom based ones with a SSD, pay the Windows tax and he wants us to install eeebuntu on it for him | Mar 12 11:57 |
| schestowitz | About 40% market share from what I've read | Mar 12 11:57 |
| Eruaran | What Im saying is there is a concerted effort here to make sure supply is non-existant | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: ASUS told out | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | It said so | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | Now it received payments from Microsoft to advertise Winodows | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | Omar showed this earlier | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | They fell for the "OEM recommends" scam too | Mar 12 11:58 |
| Eruaran | I believe Microsoft gave them Windows XP gratis | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | yes | Mar 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | But there's more | Mar 12 11:58 |
| oiaohm | MS gave them XP gratis on the idea at a later date with windows 7 they will be able to lift the price. | Mar 12 11:59 |
| oiaohm | ie crush Linux move. | Mar 12 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Somehow I don't think its working. | Mar 12 11:59 |
| Eruaran | Windows 7 "Starter Edition" = Fail. | Mar 12 11:59 |
| Eruaran | The irony here is that our customers at least haven't stopped using Linux | Mar 12 11:59 |
| Eruaran | The installed base simply becomes invisible again while Linux users buy netbooks with XP on them, only to install Linux when they get home | Mar 12 12:00 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: sadly for Microsoft, Linuc can't due | Mar 12 12:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is used to strangulation tactics being possible | Mar 12 12:00 |
| schestowitz | I.e. spend billions jut ensuring the competition can't make revenue and then starves | Mar 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Then the prices can be inflated again | Mar 12 12:01 |
| Eruaran | yes | Mar 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | it's a deficientcy in the market | Mar 12 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Linux is not something you can stave out. | Mar 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | The way it's set up | Mar 12 12:01 |
| schestowitz | *deficiency | Mar 12 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Its been staved for its complete existance. | Mar 12 12:01 |
| oiaohm | So Linux is 100 percent use to operating that way. | Mar 12 12:01 |
| Eruaran | Our sales figures are probably 99% Windows XP | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | The only one starving now is Microsoft | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | And it's entering debt | Mar 12 12:02 |
| Eruaran | The reality of the installed base we work with is vastly different though | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | It'll owe money to bank | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | *banks | Mar 12 12:02 |
| Eruaran | For example | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | And what's the assurance | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | What does Microsoft tell the bank? | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | "Look, we'll be profitable and pay back because........?" | Mar 12 12:02 |
| Eruaran | A recent netbook customer purchased an XP netbook... but we know he installed Ubuntu on it | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Because Vista has a new version? | Mar 12 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Because XBox360 isn't sold (at a loss) in the tough economy? | Mar 12 12:03 |
| schestowitz | because Windows Mobile is dying? | Mar 12 12:03 |
| schestowitz | because the price of Windows sinks to $5? | Mar 12 12:03 |
| Eruaran | A guy who came in yesterday looking at Linux Mint took a disk home and installed it on his system last night... he came in and told me today and chatted about it | Mar 12 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Because SAAS is hurting Office? | Mar 12 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: cool. | Mar 12 12:03 |
| oiaohm | That is the other thing Eruaran Linux guys are not hidding what they were doing any more. | Mar 12 12:03 |
| Eruaran | Out of these the only sale we have on the books that mentions Linux is a Fujitsu a1110 which is being sold as a dual boot XP/Ubuntu | Mar 12 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Asus has splashtop that is not counted in Linux numbers | Mar 12 12:04 |
| Eruaran | The customer requested this setup saying, "I've got friends who are using it (Ubuntu)" | Mar 12 12:04 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: what #s? | Mar 12 12:05 |
| Eruaran | The installed base of Linux users is a vastly different picture compared to anyone's official sales figures | Mar 12 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Who cares about numbers? | Mar 12 12:05 |
| schestowitz | People with shareholders do | Mar 12 12:05 |
| schestowitz | Marketers | Mar 12 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Exactly schestowitz | Mar 12 12:05 |
| schestowitz | If Linux quietly maintains 7% on the desktop (places like Brazil), do you mind that people won't know it? | Mar 12 12:05 |
| oiaohm | If MS shareholders see bad numbers how long before they leave the sinking ship and make it sink faster. | Mar 12 12:06 |
| schestowitz | ballmer ranks Linux above Apple | Mar 12 12:06 |
| schestowitz | And Apple market cap is huge | Mar 12 12:06 |
| schestowitz | What does that tell you about MS' intelligence reports? | Mar 12 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Apple is not a threat to MS. | Mar 12 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Never will be at the rate they are going. | Mar 12 12:06 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | Mar 12 12:06 |
| oiaohm | The bound to hardware bit limits Apples threat. | Mar 12 12:06 |
| schestowitz | They target rich families | Mar 12 12:06 |
| schestowitz | For iPhone ($1000+), MacBooks, etc. | Mar 12 12:07 |
| schestowitz | Apple can't sustain this model around the world | Mar 12 12:07 |
| oiaohm | MS bound to x86 is one of MS weak points. | Mar 12 12:07 |
| schestowitz | And Mac OS X won't run on much hardware | Mar 12 12:07 |
| oiaohm | That should be around until at least 2012 | Mar 12 12:07 |
| schestowitz | Not even if it were 'opened' | Mar 12 12:07 |
| schestowitz | [to other PCs] | Mar 12 12:07 |
| schestowitz | Primitive BSD | Mar 12 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Apple uses cpus | Mar 12 12:07 |
| schestowitz | But they have CUPS for the rest of those devices.. | Mar 12 12:08 |
| oiaohm | cups for printer drivrs. | Mar 12 12:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: beat me to it | Mar 12 12:08 |
| schestowitz | ARM will grow? | Mar 12 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Had to hapen but my english went to hell. | Mar 12 12:08 |
| schestowitz | Seen the reports about it? | Mar 12 12:08 |
| oiaohm | ARM most likely will grow. | Mar 12 12:08 |
| oiaohm | ARM is also not like x86. There are lots of different ARM processor makers. | Mar 12 12:09 |
| oiaohm | Including intel and amd. | Mar 12 12:09 |
| schestowitz | here's one that I found 1 hour ago: http://blog.laptopmag.com/analyst-arm-pow... | Mar 12 12:09 |
| *jose (n=jose@adsl-233-56-179.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 12:09 | |
| schestowitz | "Intel’s Atom processor has some fierce competition coming from ARM, if you believe Information Network President Robert Castellano. According to the EE Times, Castellano says that ARM based processors will hold 55 percent of the netbook market by 2012." | Mar 12 12:09 |
| jose | hey | Mar 12 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Hey, jose | Mar 12 12:09 |
| jose | check something interesting | Mar 12 12:09 |
| jose | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_st... | Mar 12 12:09 |
| oiaohm | Atom is still stuck with a instruction set that does not suit being power effective. | Mar 12 12:10 |
| jose | not sure if kodak is being paid for that .. or maybe there is a project tech swich | Mar 12 12:10 |
| jose | or maybe i made a mistake | Mar 12 12:10 |
| Eruaran | ARM is cheaper and more efficient | Mar 12 12:10 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: of course | Mar 12 12:10 |
| schestowitz | jose: Kodak and Mirosoft got together | Mar 12 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Bill Foundry put tons of money in Kodak last month | Mar 12 12:11 |
| jose | yeah, but the project seems 100% qt | Mar 12 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Some said it was for DRM | Mar 12 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Or HD | Mar 12 12:11 |
| jose | the ad is for mono.. doesn't even mention qt | Mar 12 12:11 |
| Eruaran | And manufacturers certainly wont care about offending Intel if they are losing market share to new ARM based competitors who have none of that baggage | Mar 12 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Let me see..... | Mar 12 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Wow, jose | Mar 12 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Yep the project is qt jose. Its a competior to sane. | Mar 12 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Good find | Mar 12 12:13 |
| schestowitz | I wondered about some Microsoft-Kodak connections | Mar 12 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Can I reproduce your comment in full in BN? | Mar 12 12:13 |
| jose | this looks like the main project page | Mar 12 12:13 |
| jose | http://sourceforge.net/proj... | Mar 12 12:13 |
| oiaohm | http://www.twain.org/ | Mar 12 12:13 |
| jose | notice it mentions qt | Mar 12 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Read what twain 2.0 is jose then it makes perfect sence. | Mar 12 12:14 |
| jose | also, i dug inside and found everything to suggest it was qt with zero mono | Mar 12 12:14 |
| jose | twain comes from ms standard on windows for scanners and such right | Mar 12 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Twian 2.0 is cross platform Linux and Mac including. | Mar 12 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Not just MS anymore. | Mar 12 12:14 |
| jose | sure and what does that have to do with this | Mar 12 12:14 |
| oiaohm | scantwain is the cross platform refrence thing. | Mar 12 12:15 |
| oiaohm | That you test your drivers against. | Mar 12 12:15 |
| jose | keep going | Mar 12 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Ok I will have to cover a little history so you know what happened to twain. | Mar 12 12:16 |
| jose | >> the availability of a robust, open source and production quality scanning application for use on the LINUX Operating System called ScanTWAIN. | Mar 12 12:16 |
| Eruaran | Qt 3.x ? | Mar 12 12:16 |
| jose | it's a project with old roots.. back to 2005 apparently | Mar 12 12:17 |
| oiaohm | That is correct. | Mar 12 12:17 |
| jose | what i want to know is why is the project qt-ish yet the press release mentions mono? | Mar 12 12:17 |
| jose | did i or did someone make a mistake somewhere | Mar 12 12:17 |
| Eruaran | Maybe it has been infiltrated by mono drones | Mar 12 12:17 |
| jose | maybe i'm looking at the wrong project or maybe it was misnamed | Mar 12 12:17 |
| jose | download it | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | look inside | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | it's not that large | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | 10 - 20 cpp and h files | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | is the bulk of it | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | look inside them | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | there is even a .kdevelop file | Mar 12 12:18 |
| jose | did not see anything that might look like mono (i admit i might not recognize it if i did) | Mar 12 12:19 |
| oiaohm | You are looking at the front end not the driver. | Mar 12 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Yes evil of evil. One driver everywhere. | Mar 12 12:19 |
| jose | can you look at the press release and point out the problem? .. let me look again | Mar 12 12:19 |
| jose | >> | Mar 12 12:19 |
| jose | LINUX distributions which are fully supported (user interface requires Mono Version 1.26 or higher): | Mar 12 12:19 |
| jose | >> “Kodak is pleased to offer new image scanning capabilities and solutions via ScanTWAIN and our TWAIN 2.0 data source, or driver, for LINUX Operating Systems.” | Mar 12 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Scantwain don't include the drivers for the scanners. | Mar 12 12:20 |
| jose | that's the name of the project scantwain | Mar 12 12:20 |
| oiaohm | scantwain is a front end. | Mar 12 12:21 |
| jose | the press release says mono is needed for the gui | Mar 12 12:21 |
| jose | i go and look at project by that name and it has gui of qt | Mar 12 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Read more carefully it is after supported drivers. | Mar 12 12:21 |
| jose | why don't you quote | Mar 12 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Twain drivers can open up there own user interface. | Mar 12 12:22 |
| jose | i haven't slept much (running on 2 hrs and past due) | Mar 12 12:22 |
| jose | but i don't see the mistake i might have made | Mar 12 12:22 |
| oiaohm | So you have Scantwain what is the interface to use the driver. | Mar 12 12:22 |
| oiaohm | And the driver that also can put up a interface. | Mar 12 12:22 |
| oiaohm | So you need graphical interface support for both. | Mar 12 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Yes Twain driver design insanity. | Mar 12 12:23 |
| jose | let me ask this.. how would i get to pop up the mono gui? | Mar 12 12:24 |
| jose | through sane? how exactly? | Mar 12 12:24 |
| jose | is it a kodak propri interface? | Mar 12 12:24 |
| jose | oiaohm, do you not see what i mean? why i can't find any mono anywhere? | Mar 12 12:25 |
| jose | >> The ScanTWAIN scanning application is available via the SourceForge website and is issued under GPL, Gnu Public License, version 2. | Mar 12 12:25 |
