To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | Microsoft says another story | Mar 31 14:14 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | Time line don't line up for that coping direction. | Mar 31 14:14 |
| schestowitz | It invested everything | Mar 31 14:14 |
| schestowitz | *invented (Freudian) | Mar 31 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Wait, I'll get you the memos! :-) | Mar 31 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Yes DaemonFC there are memos even it back up that you have it backwards. | Mar 31 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | well, it's bad design | Mar 31 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | and who copied who is not really the point | Mar 31 14:15 |
| zer0c00l | conflicker attack graph its awesome http://www.caida.org/research/securi... | Mar 31 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | but I believe they copied Vista | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Here, DaemonFC, read this MS e-mail: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... | Mar 31 14:16 |
| DaemonFC | those can come from anywhere | Mar 31 14:16 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4 had the design first. | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | "From; Vic Gundotra | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Sent; Wednesday, 3une 30, 2004 8:29 AM | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | To: Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Will Poole; Joe Peterson | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Cc; Sanjay Pathasarathy; Chrles Fitzgerald | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Subject: RE: tiger | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Steve is trying hard to retain the developers he has left. | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | He showed “spotlight” functionality embedded in 4 different apps, then highlighted that developers can build (and should build) the same functionality in their apps, | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | I have SDK - will send to Quentin | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | They even showed a bit of extensibility in their design. | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | I don’t have details, but at first blush, I think they will be there 80% on developer platform too. | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | €° Their Avalon competitor (core video, core image) was hot - lots of transparency, ripple effects, etc | Mar 31 14:16 |
| schestowitz | É I have the coot widgets (dashboard) running on my Mac right now with all the effects he showed on stage. I’ve had no crashes in 5 hours." | Mar 31 14:16 |
| oiaohm | MS managed to get it consuted first | Mar 31 14:16 |
| oiaohm | First to market people like thinking of as the inventor of stuff. | Mar 31 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Even when its not true. | Mar 31 14:17 |
| schestowitz | What's for Google to gain here -> Google to invest $100 million in start-ups < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/5... > | Mar 31 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Advertisement schestowitz | Mar 31 14:18 |
| schestowitz | For 100m? | Mar 31 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Of both forms. | Mar 31 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Ie start ups need advertisement like everyone else. | Mar 31 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Maybe make those businesses 'client states' of Google | Mar 31 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Like colonies.. | Mar 31 14:18 |
| oiaohm | So they can sell there products. | Mar 31 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Sneeky way of self building ad income. | Mar 31 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Nvidia has unleashed a monster (see pic): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/... | Mar 31 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Not the muli OS bit. | Mar 31 14:23 |
| schestowitz | he toll of GNU/Linux? "Sun Confirms 1500 Jobs Cut This Week" < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162225/sun_c... > | Mar 31 14:23 |
| oiaohm | not/note | Mar 31 14:23 |
| schestowitz | NVidia cards are used in clusters... on Linux | Mar 31 14:23 |
| schestowitz | In studios, NASA, etc. | Mar 31 14:23 |
| schestowitz | Windows ain't reliable for that stuff. | Mar 31 14:24 |
| schestowitz | Imagine having your NASA cluster sneeze up a Conficker when you do important simulations. | Mar 31 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Hmm sun ibm merge must be moving forward. | Mar 31 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Sun just sacked all the staff that would not be important after a merge. | Mar 31 14:25 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux users to laugh all the way to their PCs tomorrow. Conficker: Getting the Last Laugh < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162241/c... > | Mar 31 14:25 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: which divisions? | Mar 31 14:25 |
| oiaohm | 25 percent to 50 percent of Sun's customer-facing staff. << That division | Mar 31 14:26 |
| oiaohm | why would ibm and sun when merge need a double up of sales people. | Mar 31 14:26 |
| schestowitz | I see... | Mar 31 14:27 |
| schestowitz | China Closes More Porn Web Sites in Crackdown < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162... > | Mar 31 14:27 |
| DaemonFC | "No updates would be accepted by Conficker unless they are signed by the Conficker author's private encryption key." | Mar 31 14:28 |
| DaemonFC | rofl | Mar 31 14:28 |
| oiaohm | By saying it was planed in advance avoids unfair dismissel clams. | Mar 31 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Sun is still important, mostly because of OOo and Java. | Mar 31 14:28 |
| DaemonFC | that way they can't get it to disinfect itself | Mar 31 14:28 |
| DaemonFC | using its update feature | Mar 31 14:28 |
| DaemonFC | clever | Mar 31 14:28 |
| oiaohm | private encryption key can be colided with large enough procesisng power. | Mar 31 14:29 |
| schestowitz | FOSS to Microsoft: get offa me[sic] cloud: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... | Mar 31 14:29 |
| oiaohm | Problem is Linux guys are about the only people with that DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:29 |
| oiaohm | So unlikely to save MS people without money. | Mar 31 14:30 |
| DaemonFC | There's a new security option in Linux 2.6.29-git3 and later | Mar 31 14:30 |
| DaemonFC | to protect against stack smashing attacks | Mar 31 14:30 |
| oiaohm | Yep I know. | Mar 31 14:30 |
| oiaohm | There is also a new security frame work in 2.6.30 | Mar 31 14:31 |
| DaemonFC | I have the stack protector enabled | Mar 31 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel is always upgrading it secuirty. | Mar 31 14:31 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux and Apparmor are just stupid though | Mar 31 14:32 |
| oiaohm | So you like SMACK | Mar 31 14:32 |
| oiaohm | Thinking Apparmor is not offically in the main kernel. | Mar 31 14:32 |
| The death of Encarta is getting a lot of attention from newspapers. | Mar 31 14:33 | |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: What is the idea behind SELinux and SMACK? | Mar 31 14:33 |
| This seems to be more than the usual M$ love. There's a lot of fear too. | Mar 31 14:34 | |
| http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/... | Mar 31 14:34 | |
| DaemonFC | to replace the simple functional UNIX security model with asinine and complex rules | Mar 31 14:34 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: don't ask him such difficult questions, you'll confuse him :> | Mar 31 14:34 |
| DaemonFC | which break legitimate applications | Mar 31 14:34 |
| oiaohm | Nicely wrong. | Mar 31 14:34 |
| DaemonFC | and cause users to gnash teeth and tear out their hair | Mar 31 14:34 |
| oiaohm | also wrong. | Mar 31 14:34 |
| " In January, Wikipedia got 97 percent of the visits that Web surfers in the United States made to online encyclopedias, according to the Internet ratings service Hitwise. Encarta was second, with 1.27 percent. Unlike Wikipedia, where volunteer editors quickly update popular entries, Encarta can be embarrassingly outdated." | Mar 31 14:35 | |
| oiaohm | Number one to be highest rated UNIX you needed something like selinux with its kinds of protecton. | Mar 31 14:35 |
| schestowitz | twitter: they go lightweight | Mar 31 14:35 |
| DaemonFC | total overkill for any desktop user | Mar 31 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Less divisions, less employees | Mar 31 14:35 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux is jsut ridiculous | Mar 31 14:35 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: | Mar 31 14:35 |
| oiaohm | * Login or register to post comments | Mar 31 14:35 |
| oiaohm | * Share | Mar 31 14:35 |
| oiaohm | Security | Mar 31 14:35 |
| oiaohm | By Corbet - January 26, 2009 - 12:14pm | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | Security is a difficult and complicated problem, which must be addressed at several levels. The technologies discussed in this page are mainly concerned with mandatory access control - the hardening of the system so that no component of that system may go beyond its permitted capabilities. The largest value of MAC schemes is often seen when a system component is compromised as a result of an internal bug. If the MAC system has been set up | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | properly, the compromised application should not enable the attacker to take control of the system as a whole. It is claimed that SELinux has already mitigated some vulnerabilities in this manner. | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | Equally important, of course, is maintaining the integrity of the kernel itself. As the recent vmsplice() vulnerability showed, that can be a hard thing to do - we are trying to maintain a large and complex code body while being faced with capable and motivated attackers. Upcoming kernels are likely to reflect an increased interest in the use of technical means to avoid vulnerabilities - buffer overrun detection and the like. But there is no | Mar 31 14:36 |
| DaemonFC | you have to castrate it to the point of ineffectiveness | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | substitute for old-fashioned code auditing and review. | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | Contents | Mar 31 14:36 |
| DaemonFC | to get it to not malfunction so much | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | * 1 AppArmor | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | * 2 SMACK | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | * 3 TOMOYO Linux | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | * 4 TALPA | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | * 5 Credential records | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | * 6 Integrity measurement | Mar 31 14:36 |
| DaemonFC | I won't use those | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | AppArmor | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | AppArmor is a mandatory access control mechanism acquired (and open-sourced) by Novell. Like SELinux, AppArmor controls the behavior of programs with the idea of containing any potential security breaches within those programs. AppArmor differs from SELinux, however, in that it addresses a smaller set of potential threats and is intended to be much simpler to administer. | Mar 31 14:36 |
| DaemonFC | they're ridiculous | Mar 31 14:36 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Excess Flood) | Mar 31 14:36 | |
| DaemonFC | and AppArmor is easy to hack around | Mar 31 14:36 |
| schestowitz | AppArmor is dead almost | Mar 31 14:36 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 31 14:36 | |
| schestowitz | Novell fired the devs | Mar 31 14:36 |
| DaemonFC | they list a number of ways to do it in the Ubuntu FAQ | Mar 31 14:36 |
| oiaohm | TOMYOYO SMACK and Selinux are manditory access controols | Mar 31 14:37 |
| schestowitz | The founder of AppArmor was snatched by Novell's ally | Mar 31 14:37 |
| This is amazing, “Bill Gates bought Corbis, and Encarta had access to all these images that Wikipedia could never get,” he said. “Right now, that is a big weakness of Wikipedia -– the material has to be free.” | Mar 31 14:37 | |
| DaemonFC | Tomoyo is mostly documented in Japanese | Mar 31 14:37 |
| oiaohm | Normal Unix are DAC | Mar 31 14:37 |
| DaemonFC | and SELinux breaks shit | Mar 31 14:37 |
| DaemonFC | unless you castrate it | Mar 31 14:37 |
| oiaohm | What is the difference betwean MAC and DAC | Mar 31 14:37 |
| They just got their ass kicked by tons of free material and people call that a weakness? | Mar 31 14:37 | |
| oiaohm | Its key to understand DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:37 |
| DaemonFC | the normal user root user concept | Mar 31 14:37 |
| DaemonFC | which works | Mar 31 14:37 |
| schestowitz | twitter: didn't Gate found Corbis? | Mar 31 14:37 |
| DaemonFC | MAC is stupid for desktop users | Mar 31 14:38 |
| schestowitz | Am I missing something here? | Mar 31 14:38 |
| DaemonFC | and unreasonable | Mar 31 14:38 |
| oiaohm | root user does nto work. | Mar 31 14:38 |
| oiaohm | Problem is services. | Mar 31 14:38 |
| oiaohm | MAC main job is protecting them. | Mar 31 14:38 |
| DaemonFC | MAC is heavy, stupid, and problematic | Mar 31 14:38 |
| DaemonFC | not suitable for a desktop | Mar 31 14:38 |
| Not sure. | Mar 31 14:38 | |
| oiaohm | A service with root power really does not need to access everything. | Mar 31 14:38 |
| oiaohm | It is suitable for a desktop. | Mar 31 14:38 |
| schestowitz | twitter: here is my take on the death of Microsoft's Wikipedia 'rival': http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03... | Mar 31 14:38 |
| oiaohm | Most of your back ground servers DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:38 |
| oiaohm | That are running all the time. | Mar 31 14:39 |
| http://features.csmonitor.com/conn... "Goodbye, Encarta. A cautionary tale for newspapers?" | Mar 31 14:39 | |
| DaemonFC | SELinux is never appropriate for a desktop | Mar 31 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | yes, those are SERVERS | Mar 31 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | not DESKTOPS | Mar 31 14:39 |
| oiaohm | services. | Mar 31 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Running behind your desktop. | Mar 31 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Like your printer server. | Mar 31 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | I read that out of the corner of my eye | Mar 31 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Mar 31 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Does it need to be able to acess everything. | Mar 31 14:39 |
| oiaohm | It has a place on desktop in background. | Mar 31 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | but there's no use for SELinux on a desktop | Mar 31 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Doing what it designed to do. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | it causes way more harm than it is worth | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Really not. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | If you turn on strict yes. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | it gets pissed off when you run things in Wine | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 31 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | even when you use the targeted policy | Mar 31 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | best to shut it off | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | I run selinux here all the time. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| MinceR | it only needs to be preconfigured properly by the distro maintainers. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | No wine problems. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | I have selinux set to target all the services running in background. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux as configured by Fedora ruins a desktop system | Mar 31 14:40 |
| oiaohm | And anything running as root. | Mar 31 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | you have to install it with selinux=0 | Mar 31 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is crap. | Mar 31 14:41 |
| schestowitz | Don't people want to keep THEIR mail on THEIR PCs? Gmail Labs Goes International < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... > | Mar 31 14:41 |
| oiaohm | truely Fedora is crap. | Mar 31 14:41 |
| oiaohm | It gets lots of proto type stuff that don't work. | Mar 31 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Including prototype selinux rules. | Mar 31 14:41 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise you get AVC denials for Tomboy notes, anything you run in Wine, Nautilus | Mar 31 14:41 |
| DaemonFC | ...... | Mar 31 14:41 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux is some STUPID shit | Mar 31 14:41 |
| DaemonFC | seriously | Mar 31 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Anyone using fedora is a crash dumby. | Mar 31 14:41 |
| CSM takes a lot of time to smear Wikipedia with the usual BS. | Mar 31 14:41 | |
| oiaohm | Every used Selinux on a debian based system DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:42 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Why online privacy is no 'luxury': YouTube to Collect Real-Name Data in South Korea < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/200... > | Mar 31 14:42 |
| qdev | tell that to linus torvalds, oiaohm | Mar 31 14:42 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: repeat it 234 more times and i'm sure we'll all be convinced. | Mar 31 14:42 |
| oiaohm | Set in permissive mode ie only effecting services. | Mar 31 14:42 |
| DaemonFC | no, I removed it from my kernel | Mar 31 14:42 |
| I keep all of my email in the same archive. Gmail lets you use pop and other normal protocols. | Mar 31 14:42 | |
| DaemonFC | the module isn't even built | Mar 31 14:42 |
| DaemonFC | good riddance | Mar 31 14:42 |
| schestowitz | twitter: they still hold the mail | Mar 31 14:42 |
| schestowitz | ISP+Google | Mar 31 14:42 |
| schestowitz | That's two tiers | Mar 31 14:42 |
| oiaohm | So you don't run a MAC at all DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:42 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux is masturbation | Mar 31 14:42 |
| schestowitz | And I'm not sure if Gmail does PGP | Mar 31 14:42 |
| schestowitz | If it did, then it would have the keys too, i.e. no privacy | Mar 31 14:43 |
| oiaohm | If you don't want SElinux you should run like Smack or equal. | Mar 31 14:43 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: what you're doing now is masturbation | Mar 31 14:43 |
| http://online.wsj.com/article/... | Mar 31 14:43 | |
| DaemonFC | MAC is a bad idea | Mar 31 14:43 |
| DaemonFC | for desktops | Mar 31 14:43 |
| DaemonFC | it makes no sense | Mar 31 14:43 |
| DaemonFC | it is a tin foil hat | Mar 31 14:43 |
| qdev | mac is a bad idea at it's root | Mar 31 14:43 |
| oiaohm | Because all you are doing is leaving all you users weak to attacks from any borked service. | Mar 31 14:43 |
| DaemonFC | not really | Mar 31 14:44 |
| schestowitz | MURDOCHsoft lock out GNU/Linux users: MySpace, Microsoft Announce Two New Deals < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/... > | Mar 31 14:44 |
| oiaohm | That is using root | Mar 31 14:44 |
| none of these articles makes the leap, Wikipedia:Encarta and GNU/Linux:Windows | Mar 31 14:44 | |
| DaemonFC | don't run services that leave open ports to the internet? | Mar 31 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | like gee, shit, I don't know | Mar 31 14:44 |
| oiaohm | No need to | Mar 31 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | a desktop | Mar 31 14:44 |
| My ISP keeps all of my email too. | Mar 31 14:44 | |
| DaemonFC | damn | Mar 31 14:44 |
| qdev | so you're tracked twice | Mar 31 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Look more closely at the services you are running DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Some are outside connecting. | Mar 31 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | if I was running a server, I would bother with pulling teeth | Mar 31 14:45 |
| the only way I could avoid people keeping my email would be to run a mail server myself and only accept encrypted connections. | Mar 31 14:45 | |
| schestowitz | "Computer experts are warning that the Conficker virus could strike infected computers on 1 April 2009." http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/... | Mar 31 14:45 |
| My ISP won't let me do that. | Mar 31 14:45 | |
| oiaohm | So open ports is not a requirement to attack box DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:45 |
| schestowitz | MSBBC wasting space on Windows-specific problems and offering Q&As | Mar 31 14:45 |
| oiaohm | Most common is bind for dns look ups. | Mar 31 14:45 |
| So, I might as well use gmail too. | Mar 31 14:45 | |
| My ISP's mail service is not reliable. | Mar 31 14:45 | |
| DaemonFC | whatever | Mar 31 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux won't stop anything | Mar 31 14:45 |
| oiaohm | It does. | Mar 31 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | not in the way you have to set it up to leave a working system | Mar 31 14:46 |
| oiaohm | If you brake bind and it protected. | Mar 31 14:46 |
| I can't turn off their filters and the stupid thing blocked lots of important mail last month. | Mar 31 14:46 | |
| oiaohm | only bind is distored. | Mar 31 14:46 |
| oiaohm | That is wrong selinux permissive mode DaemonFC | Mar 31 14:46 |
| oiaohm | anything without rules define does not have rules appled. | Mar 31 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | SELinux Permissive doesn't stop things, it only bitches | Mar 31 14:46 |
| oiaohm | That is permissive mode. | Mar 31 14:46 |
| oiaohm | It does stop things in well setup systems. | Mar 31 14:47 |
| Without network freedom, you don't have software freedom. | Mar 31 14:47 | |
| DaemonFC | right, enforce won't stop things either | Mar 31 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | it makes it harder | Mar 31 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | for you | Mar 31 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Because all services have have one. | Mar 31 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | to use your system | Mar 31 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Not really never used graphic selinux configuration tools. | Mar 31 14:47 |
| schestowitz | Another major Fail for DRM, this time in computer games, not just music: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn... | Mar 31 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Sounds like a person who dumbly tryed to configure it by text files. | Mar 31 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Without learning modes or anything else. | Mar 31 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | I don't have any need for it | Mar 31 14:48 |
| oiaohm | Its no harder than setting up zonealarm and any other learning firewall. | Mar 31 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | why would I piss around with all that? | Mar 31 14:48 |
| oiaohm | If you want to configure it from scratch. | Mar 31 14:48 |
| oiaohm | If not used provided templates. | Mar 31 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | if I wanted it, I would have built it into the kernel | Mar 31 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 31 14:49 |
| oiaohm | From distributions that know how to make them. | Mar 31 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Ie never fedora. | Mar 31 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | meh | Mar 31 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | it's easier to turn it off | Mar 31 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Centos Debain both do good jobs of them. | Mar 31 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | or just leave it out of the kernel | Mar 31 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Really no effort. | Mar 31 14:49 |
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| oiaohm | They are just installed works and you forget about them. | Mar 31 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | Everyone I've ever seen use SELinux feels the way I do | Mar 31 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | it's a pile of shit | Mar 31 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | just turn it off and be happy | Mar 31 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Except me. | Mar 31 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 31 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Problem is I have used it without graphical tools. | Mar 31 14:50 |
| oiaohm | And with. | Mar 31 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Without graphical tools it crap. | Mar 31 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Too hard to manage. | Mar 31 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | Fedora provides graphical setup tools | Mar 31 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | and troubleshooting tools | Mar 31 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Fedoras tools are crap. | Mar 31 14:51 |
| oiaohm | They are patched and unstable. | Mar 31 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Basically playing with selinux never do it on fedora. | Mar 31 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | they're an inelegant work around to try and put lipstick on the SELinux pig | Mar 31 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | ;;) | Mar 31 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Debian Centos | Mar 31 14:51 |
| oiaohm | It basically works without effort. | Mar 31 14:52 |
| oiaohm | The tools for both work. | Mar 31 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | CentOS is Red Hat crap rebranded | Mar 31 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | Debian is eww | Mar 31 14:52 |
| oiaohm | Different maintainers. | Mar 31 14:52 |
| oiaohm | Make a stack of difference. | Mar 31 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | well, you can't very well be 100% compatible if you change things | Mar 31 14:52 |
| oiaohm | Even Ubuntu has good base selinux rules. | Mar 31 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | so CentOS is practically Red Hat | Mar 31 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu doesn't use SELinux | Mar 31 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | it uses AppArmor | Mar 31 14:52 |
| oiaohm | But lack good configation tols. | Mar 31 14:53 |
| schestowitz | BTW: Stay away from MonoDevelop and spread the word. TomTom shows why: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... | Mar 31 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu has option of switching to SELinux. | Mar 31 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they decided against it | Mar 31 14:53 |
| oiaohm | AppArmor is default but you can change between 3 mode. | Mar 31 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | mostly for the reasons I laid out | Mar 31 14:53 |
| oiaohm | AppArmor is techically flawed. | Mar 31 14:54 |
| oiaohm | So its completely worthless. | Mar 31 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | why do you think I don't bother building my own CrappArmor module | Mar 31 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Its the joke of secuirty moudles. | Mar 31 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | for my kernels | Mar 31 14:54 |
| oiaohm | smack is lot simpler than selinux to use | Mar 31 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Yet is solid. | Mar 31 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | anything that fucks with the file system is bad | Mar 31 14:55 |
| oiaohm | TOMOYO does not fuck with file system | Mar 31 14:55 |
| oiaohm | And is also techincally solid in 2.6.30 | Mar 31 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | anything that labels the filesystem has a good chance of messing things up | Mar 31 14:55 |
| oiaohm | TOMOYO does not. | Mar 31 14:56 |
| DaemonFC | and label based MAC controls slow down file operations | Mar 31 14:56 |
| DaemonFC | considerably | Mar 31 14:56 |
| DaemonFC | there's just so much BAD that MAC does | Mar 31 14:56 |
| oiaohm | You would have noticed a reduction in that in 2.6.29 | Mar 31 14:56 |
| DaemonFC | and so few good | Mar 31 14:56 |
| oiaohm | If you had build with selinux and smack. | Mar 31 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Problem was not exactly reading form the filesystem. | Mar 31 14:57 |
| oiaohm | It was many more memory operations to get answers. | Mar 31 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Asay is up with more BS... defending Microsoft's lies. there is no "Open Cloud Manifesto's anti-Microsoft bias" See http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... , also about odf... how they fool the CNET|CBS sheeple | Mar 31 14:57 |
| DaemonFC | if I was really anal about security I'd just go join the masturbating monkeys at OpenBSD ;) | Mar 31 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Do you know the limittions of DAC | Mar 31 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | saying you're worried about security then using proprietary drivers and firmware blobs is really pointless | Mar 31 14:58 |
| oiaohm | Exactly why Long term my system will have very few of them. | Mar 31 14:59 |
| DaemonFC | Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets - relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights. | Mar 31 14:59 |
| oiaohm | No insulting in german. | Mar 31 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Thinking I read german insults perfectly. | Mar 31 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Thinking I am 1/4 german. | Mar 31 15:00 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 31 15:00 |
| *ToreadorVampire has read a number of articles on the boycottnovell website over the last year or so (mostly linked to me by MinceR in another network I hang out on) - one thing I always wish about it: if it used a less alarmist tone ... | Mar 31 15:00 | |
| MinceR | ToreadorVampire: the house is on fire | Mar 31 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | wake up the house is on fire | Mar 31 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | and the cat's caught in the dryer | Mar 31 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Mar 31 15:01 |
| MinceR | our society has let m$ & co. run unchecked for decades | Mar 31 15:01 |
| schestowitz | ToreadorVampire: I was told this before | Mar 31 15:01 |
| schestowitz | It's not deliberate | Mar 31 15:01 |
| schestowitz | It's more to do with anger than 'alarmism' | Mar 31 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Because they sell stuff abroad | Mar 31 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | and rake in money | Mar 31 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | and buy politicians | Mar 31 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | don't you know how stuff works? :) | Mar 31 15:02 |
| ToreadorVampire | Things like: calling monodevelop "poisonware factory 2.0" - it makes it seem that the site is resorting to baseless name-calling, when I presume that there is a real message in there | Mar 31 15:02 |
| MinceR | the most prominent religion on earth is money. | Mar 31 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | meh, Christians, money | Mar 31 15:02 |
| schestowitz | ToreadorVampire: yes, it's a strong word | Mar 31 15:02 |
| DaemonFC | what's the difference? | Mar 31 15:02 |
| schestowitz | [H]omer made it up | Mar 31 15:02 |
| *qdev has quit () | Mar 31 15:02 | |
| schestowitz | Poisonware - free but patent encumberedd | Mar 31 15:02 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: money is useful for something | Mar 31 15:02 |
| schestowitz | A trap basically | Mar 31 15:03 |
| *wtfyan has quit ("Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)") | Mar 31 15:03 | |
| DaemonFC | The highest suicide rates in America are in the most Christian areas | Mar 31 15:03 |
| ToreadorVampire | I have to wade through the "crap speak" to find the actual information that helps me make an informed decision about what I want to do | Mar 31 15:03 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: the US was built on religion | Mar 31 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder if that's them or the people that have to deal with their shit | Mar 31 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 31 15:03 |
| schestowitz | And it's in the money too | Mar 31 15:03 |
| MinceR | indeed | Mar 31 15:03 |
| schestowitz | The country was built by people waving the Holy Book | Mar 31 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Lesser known fact BTW | Mar 31 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | and murdering the natives | Mar 31 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | even though their book says Don't Kill | Mar 31 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 31 15:03 |
| schestowitz | You beat me to it | Mar 31 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | and raping them, because women are objects | Mar 31 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | not people | Mar 31 15:04 |
| schestowitz | The religion justified killing the natives | Mar 31 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | only men have rights | Mar 31 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Genoccide for God | Mar 31 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 31 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Really? | Mar 31 15:04 |
| schestowitz | They raped Indian women? | Mar 31 15:04 |
| schestowitz | That would be new to me | Mar 31 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | I've always said that if men could get pregnant, there's be a 24-hour abortion clinic on every block | Mar 31 15:04 |
| MinceR | according to Richard Dawkins, the bible has several stories where the Good Guys offer their women for raping | Mar 31 15:05 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 31 15:06 | |
| DaemonFC | The bible is an illogical fallacy | Mar 31 15:06 |
| schestowitz | http://open.salon.com/blog/greg_t... "Mostly a rape followed by a quickie jump over the broomstick, is my guess.Rape of women is part of war." | Mar 31 15:06 |
| DaemonFC | self-contradicting | Mar 31 15:06 |
| DaemonFC | poorly written | Mar 31 15:06 |
| DaemonFC | with more lies cover to cover than Acts of Congress | Mar 31 15:06 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 31 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Bible is Lible | Mar 31 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Very genocidal | Mar 31 15:07 |
| schestowitz | And some people would say that it was "written by God" | Mar 31 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Or in 'his' spirit | Mar 31 15:07 |
| schestowitz | So they can basically write anything they want and then say "because God said so" | Mar 31 15:08 |
| schestowitz | I should write my "Linux bible" | Mar 31 15:08 |
| schestowitz | In the spirit of God" | Mar 31 15:08 |
| MinceR | there's no need to | Mar 31 15:08 |
| MinceR | the facts are on our side. | Mar 31 15:08 |
| schestowitz | 10 commandments: "1. All your Conflicker-capable machines shelt be abolished..." | Mar 31 15:08 |
| *devq (n=gt5@ns.km22853.keymachine.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 31 15:08 | |
| schestowitz | Then we'll go around with long lightening sticks and claim to be fulfilling the will of Ignucius.. | Mar 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | *shalt | Mar 31 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | I was touched by his noodly appendage | Mar 31 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | I've found that if I use preemptible RCU, realtime kernel, and Dynamic Ticks disabled and HZ=1000, then timer-based Pulseaudio works fine | Mar 31 15:11 |
| schestowitz | TomTom - "Settled, But Not Over Yet" says SFLC < http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s... > | Mar 31 15:11 |
| DaemonFC | I won't be buying a TomTom | Mar 31 15:12 |
| MinceR | me neither, as long as they pay m$ | Mar 31 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | I bought a Garmin | Mar 31 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | they run GNOME and Linux | Mar 31 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | well, parts of GNOME anyway | Mar 31 15:12 |
| MinceR | GPE? | Mar 31 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm | Mar 31 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | and they give back their source diffs as the GPL requires | Mar 31 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | so they seem fairly Linux friendly | Mar 31 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Another major setback for SCO: http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph... | Mar 31 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | SCO? | Mar 31 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 31 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | What the hell? | Mar 31 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Not MicroSCOft | Mar 31 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | do they STILL exist? | Mar 31 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | they were delisted last year!!!! | Mar 31 15:14 |
| schestowitz | In their suitors embodiment maybe | Mar 31 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Well, in Groklaw they still exist | Mar 31 15:14 |
| schestowitz | It's the raison detre of the site, ain't it? | Mar 31 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed they had their yearly meeting in Las Vegas | Mar 31 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | nothing like liquidating company assets on a hooker/cocaine/gambling/drinking binge | Mar 31 15:15 |
| schestowitz | This is so ghey: http://news.softpedia.com/news/S... | Mar 31 15:17 |
| schestowitz | They give no credit to RMS _at all_ | Mar 31 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | RMS is a kook | Mar 31 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | if coughing up a kernel is so easy, where is HURD/ | Mar 31 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | right....thought so | Mar 31 15:18 |
| schestowitz | EU issues warning on Internet user rights < http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2... > | Mar 31 15:18 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's not just engineering | Mar 31 15:19 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: if writing a unix userspace is so easy, why don't you do it? | Mar 31 15:19 |
| schestowitz | The foundations too, including public support and licence | Mar 31 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | the user space is not really that much compared to the kernel | Mar 31 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | and GNU is not the only userspace Linux could use | Mar 31 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Why not? | Mar 31 15:19 |
| schestowitz | GNU =15% of Debian | Mar 31 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Linux= about 3% | Mar 31 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | they had the entire GNU userspace before 1990! | Mar 31 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | and they STILL have no kernel | Mar 31 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | you tell me which is harder | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | They did it last | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | It was planned | Mar 31 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | right | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | This is not an issue of practice | Mar 31 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | 25 years | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Hey, BSD had a kernel | Mar 31 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | and it's still not done | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | More than one really | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | And GNU was gonna do it right | Mar 31 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | so will my great grandkids be enjoying GNU HURD 1.0? | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Whether or not performance would be good in a m-kernel is another q | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's a matter of competitoon | Mar 31 15:20 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: have you ever bothered to check what kind of kernel they're aiming for? | Mar 31 15:20 |
| schestowitz | There was a GPL-licesed kernel already | Mar 31 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | HURD is ridiculous | Mar 31 15:21 |
| schestowitz | So RMS achieved his goal | Mar 31 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | and will be broken because it came from GNU | Mar 31 15:21 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: go on, keep ranting on about stuff you know nothing about | Mar 31 15:21 |
| schestowitz | The fact that it eas then labeled Linux as a WHOLE is another | Mar 31 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | if it ever is released | Mar 31 15:21 |
