Signs of Mono Unrest, Legal Issues

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2009-06-15 07:54:35 UTC
Modified: 2009-06-15 08:08:04 UTC

"The patent danger to Mono comes from patents we know Microsoft has, on libraries which are outside the C# spec and thus not covered by any promise not to sue. In effect, Microsoft has designed in boobytraps for us.

"Indeed, every large program implements lots of ideas that are patented. Indeed, there's no way to avoid this danger. But that's no reason to put our head inside Microsoft's jaws."

--Richard Stallman

Summary: The Mono discussion awakens, Mono-hostile assessments outweigh the rest

THE matter broke loose a couple of days after Fedora had said that it was concerned about Mono. More and more bloggers are starting to write about the subject. Béranger, for example, argues that he is fed up with Mono. He writes:

Of course I’m fed with Mono. I am so annoyed by the public passion for this technology that I won’t bother anymore to blog against it. A tiny mention though, in this short post.

First of all, I was exceedingly pissed off by a long pro-Mono plea by Jo Shields, which I have read as posted by Carla Schroder. I can’t comment on it, as I don’t want to read it again. It hurts my guts.

The only thing I can say: we don’t need Mono, the same way we don’t need Java. It’s not just about Microsoft. It’s about stupid people who try to force some technologies there where they’re not needed.

Other sources of opposition suggest that defense of Mono proponents is very weak and a detailed breakdown is offered to explain why Mono critics are right.

Also, sharing pearls for wisdom such as “Double click is patented”, “They’re just doing FUD” does not really help people think you’re serious. DOSsing BoycottNovell also doesn’t help (nor to claim they did it to themselves), nor helps claiming that Fedora included Gnote just for space saving (weird how what make Fedora lose space apparently makes Ubuntu save it, uh ?): I’ve got a nice news for you:

“We do have some serious concerns about Mono and we’ll continue to look at it with our legal counsel to see what if any steps are needed on our part,” Frields said.

“We haven’t come to a legal conclusion that is pat enough for us to make the decision to take mono out,” Frields said. “Right now we’re in a status quo. Gnote is a relatively recent development and unfortunately was too late in the Fedora 11 development cycle to include by default.”

That conclusion was probably drew after some consulting with RedHat’s “oh-so-sophisticated anti-Mono lawyers”.

It’s not that Mono is that bad. Let’s move it to Medibuntu and everyone is fine.

Whether Ubuntu likes it or not, Mononono is now on Launchpad. It is an entry which someone describes as what "seems like a collection of legal issues related to Mono & Moonlight, each well documented."

For practical reasons too, Mono is not suitable for users (developers aside). Tony Manco has obtained proof that Gnote, for example, can take up less than one megabyte of RAM. See the screenshot below. Compare that to Tomboy, which is a lot heavier.

Other than Microsoft and Novell, who does Mono actually serve? And if OOP is a must, why not Java? ⬆

Comments

Needs Sunlight

2009-06-15 09:15:56

Developers don't want Mono either.

When Jo yammers about "developers" wanting Mono in distros he must be in some alternate universe where he is unable to see all questions and complaints about the technology and legal problems from developers around Microsoft's Johnny-come-lately copy of Java. "Mono developers" != all developers

Berenger needs to keep up the good fight and not let the bastards wear him down:

"If not me, then who: if not now, then when?" Hillel

"The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." Burke

http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9911/15/search.engine.ms.idg/
Omar Abdul-Hafez

2009-06-16 19:21:04

@Chris

Amazing how some people resort to cuss words when none of what they say actually makes sense.

Just like RMS once said: "Idiots can be defeated, but they just never admit it."

You guys are pathetic!
vexorian

2009-06-15 14:02:04

OOP is never really truly necessary you know?

Like Beranger I would oppose to Java as well if it was pushed in the default. I guess the Mono zealots would to. If you think about it, shipping Java apps in a main distro's default would outrage everyone. It would also happen if we shipped WINE apps in the default. Mono is not any different to these things, yet the zealots have managed to slowly get it into it. I guess it was all caused by Miguel Icaza's influence in gnome.

There are tons of FOSS-originated ways to have OOP, I mean really. The KDE guys have OOP without having to stop making native apps...
vexorian

2009-06-15 14:02:50

I like that RMS quote. Surprisingly after 2 years, the mono zealots still stick to arguments that are easily defeated by that quote.

Roy Schestowitz

2009-06-15 14:58:57

Worse -- they claim that RMS supports Mono.

Chris

2009-06-16 17:19:42

I still totally fail to see where you little wieners get the right to dictate what language people have to use.

You don't like Mono? Simply don't use it ffs & stfu but stop nagging at people cause they choose a language you don't like to develop an application.

Or simply recreate some Mono application you like in the language of your choice to avoid the "Mononono" .... But hey, we all know that wont happen since that would mean that you sad fuckers would have to do something productive.
NotZed

2009-06-15 16:25:18

.NET is pretty sucky - often when people rave about it you gotta wonder if they're in full command of their faculties, have enough experience to have a clue, or are merely paid to say nice things about it. I guess if you've never looked outside of the ms ecosystem it's a bit of a step up from visual basic and maybe that impresses a certain group of programmers.

Anyway, I was going to laugh at the 'it only takes 1 mb' point.

Wow, a whole notes application, in only 1 mb!

Where did we go wrong?

Roy Schestowitz

2009-06-15 17:55:54

Gnote was idle.

Sabayon User (Sabayon == Gentoo, kthx)

2009-06-15 19:35:45

DOSsing BoycottNovell also doesn’t help

So Joe Shields was responsible for that as well now? Nice. I can't believe you even post these things. And how about some disclosure about the fact that most of the no-name blogs you link to as "support" are operated by people who hang out on your chat room?
suresh

2009-06-17 02:18:47

As RMS pointed out, there are many ideas that are patented. But the same issue with M$ needs to be seen under different light. Because,

1. They monopolize every field they enter into and use any means at their disposal.

2. They see FLOSS as the greatest threat to their monopoly.

3. Their ugly track record vis-à-vis many free software implementations. Latest eg. FAT-LFN.

4. They now process enormous reach(financial, political, business-wise etc.) which can hamper the progress of FLOSS development even if it lasts for a temporary phase.

So, as in the case of mono, there is no paranoia involved because the threat is right in front of you.

Google News, Which We Call Gulag Noise, is Following the New York Times Into the Digital Graveyard: It merely gives an illusion of volume and instead of giving readers more stuff to read it wastes people's time
Over at Tux Machines...: yesterday's posts
Software Freedom is the Future and Microsoft is the Biggest Obstacle: GNU/Linux, at its roots, was all about Software Freedom
Greener Pastures for Free Software Users: This coming week we'll publish many articles about GNU/Linux and technical means of/for user empowerment
The GNU/Linux Revolution Ain't Here. Look at Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa (BRICS) Instead.: The revolution won't be televised
Chaffbot Effect: Microsoft Bing Falls to Lowest Share in Two Years (Amid Loads of Bing Layoffs This Year): Press outlets mostly failed to report that Bing is collapsing
GNU/Linux Distributions as "Appliances" and DRM Platforms (the Case of ChromeOS and SteamOS): Is this what we envisioned in the 1980s and 90s?
Fulfilling the Site's Full Potential: We remain devoted to the aforementioned goal of posting more original material
Over at Tux Machines...: 2 days' worth
Microsoft's Demise in the Global News Cycle is Rather Telling: It should be noted that Microsoft is, in general, no longer prominent or dominant in news headlines
IRC Proceedings: Monday, October 02, 2023: IRC logs for Monday, October 02, 2023
Daily Bulletins Coming Soon (Hopefully as Early as Next Week): Today we finish testing IRC logs and their upload to Gemini, not just to IPFS
Links 02/10/2023: NUC, GTK Themes, and More: Links for the day
New Union Syndicale Articles About the European Patent Office: We'll probably get back to regularly writing about the EPO in the near future
If WordPress Knows Well Enough to Self-Host Its Podcast, Why Can't GNU/Linux Shows Do the Same?: For those who want videos and podcasts, here are today's latest additions from other sites
Richard Stallman Can Outlive Many of His Prominent Haters: M.J.G. tried hard to take our Web site offline, based on lies and repeated threats
Forget VSCode (Microsoft's Proprietary Spyware), Use KATE Instead: KATE is great
Sometimes It's Time to Reboot: No, not Android. KDE.
Upcoming Talk by Dr. Richard Stallman: Large Language Models Are Not Artificial Intelligence: LLMs aren't truly intelligent and cannot quite grasp what they spew out
GulagTube is a Burning Platform (Exit YouTube, Invidious Won't Save Us From Google/Alphabet in the Long Run): Alphabet Agency (Google) sees the future of video as a "skinnerbox" (running Android) that indoctrinates you like TikTok does
Gemini Migration and Backup Capsule (Archive): At the end we'll end up with something a lot better than before and latency should be massively reduced
Links 01/10/2023: Science, Education, and pro-Russia Slovakia Leadership: Links for the day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, October 01, 2023: IRC logs for Sunday, October 01, 2023
Links 01/10/2023: Climate, Patents, Programming, and More: Links for the day
Apple and Microsoft Problems: half a dozen links
Malware in the Ubuntu Snap Store, Thanks to Canonical Bloatware Mindset: Reprinted with permission from Ryan Farmer
Gemini Rising: There are 3523 capsules
Richard Stallman Gave a Talk Yesterday, Will Give Another Talk Today, and Will Give Two More Talks in Germany Later This Week: Those cover at least 2 different topics
Beware the Microsoft Sharks: We won't forgive and forget
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, September 30, 2023: IRC logs for Saturday, September 30, 2023
Don't be Afraid of the Command Line, It Might Even be a Friend: There's a tendency to think that only graphical interfaces were made to simplify usage, and any declarative interface is by design raw, inherently unfit for usage
One Positive Note About GNU/Linux Coverage in 2023 (Less Microsoft): GNU/Linux users do not want this, with very rare exceptions
Snaps Were Never Good at Security, But the Media Coverage is Just Appalling: The media should focus on culling Windows, not making a huge fuss over minor things wrongly attributed to "Linux"

Signs of Mono Unrest, Legal Issues

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts