| schestowitz | Why Windows is Less Secure Than Linux: 404 Error (But Found) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/11/why-windows-is-less-secure-than-linux/ > | May 12 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Aondo: any info on that? | May 12 00:19 |
| schestowitz | Blender? | May 12 00:19 |
| schestowitz | I thought it was about OOXML last year | May 12 00:19 |
| Aondo | http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2008-May/021036.html | May 12 00:21 |
| Aondo | http://www.blender.org/news/article/microsoft-and-blender/ | May 12 00:21 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/11/microsoft-odf-promise-of-interoperability/ - Microsoft’s ‘ODF Patent’ as Vacuous as Its Promise of Interoperability | May 12 00:21 |
| Aondo | i think that is the start, an the end of it | May 12 00:21 |
| Aondo | hehe | May 12 00:21 |
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| schestowitz | Confirmed: Microsoft Tries to Turn Regulators Against Google (Again) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/11/microsoft-regulators-against-google/ > | May 12 01:17 |
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| schestowitz | gn | May 12 01:44 |
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| the_mad_hatter | Roy, Charlie Demerjian has a new article in The Inquirer | May 12 03:20 |
| the_mad_hatter | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1137283/you-rights-windows | May 12 03:20 |
| the_mad_hatter | "You have no rights, so buy Windows 7" | May 12 03:21 |
| the_mad_hatter | He called it a "cynical scam" | May 12 03:21 |
| the_mad_hatter | I think he was kinder than he should have been, but they wouldn't have printed what I think of it. | May 12 03:22 |
| the_mad_hatter | Another good quote, "If you buy Windows 7, or even use it, you are an idiot." | May 12 03:23 |
| the_mad_hatter | He also says that some of the press are paid off. | May 12 03:24 |
| the_mad_hatter | Quote "The public is too stupid to actually read a second article on a topic, and no one in the trade press updates their old stories or puts up a story about how they were used. If they even get it." | May 12 03:27 |
| the_mad_hatter | I like Charlie. | May 12 03:27 |
| his article is interesting and informative. | May 12 03:42 | |
| It's people like him that allow people like me to be able to criticize the finer points of an OS I would never actually use. | May 12 03:43 | |
| I just note how stupid the new version of Windows has become and point back to someone who's been there and saw it. | May 12 03:43 | |
| The entire Vista Failure log was written this way. The closest I ever came to running that shit was to watch friends and relatives struggle with it. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | May 12 03:45 | |
| It's just an aggregation but a well informed one. | May 12 03:45 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Yes, Charlie does a good job, and since I'll never run Windows 7, as you said, it gives you the information you need to argue against the fanbois | May 12 03:48 |
| the_mad_hatter | Did you see the comments? | May 12 03:48 |
| I have not read all of it yet, thanks. Anything good? | May 12 03:49 | |
| the_mad_hatter | fanbois out in droves. I left a comment agreeing with Charlie, I'll send him an email later. | May 12 03:54 |
| the usual. | May 12 03:55 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Yeah. Hey, read this: http://crankyoldnutcase.blogspot.com/2009/05/thin-line.html | May 12 03:56 |
| the_mad_hatter | the idiot in Best Buy is probably still thinking of buying windows 7 | May 12 04:01 |
| I'm not sure people will be dumb enough to buy into Windows 7. Vista is still a flop, even though it's the only way you can buy a computer without "knowing someone" or jumping through hoops. | May 12 04:09 | |
| OK, I read both of those articles. | May 12 04:14 | |
| You are right about the astroturf, but I'm not sure about the Geek Squad going out of business jab. | May 12 04:15 | |
| Geek Squad and other service companies may do just as well doing nice things for people with GNU/Linux as it does fixing broken Windows shit. | May 12 04:16 | |
| The beauty of free software is that it's infinitely configurable so that it really does match individual needs. | May 12 04:17 | |
| People will still want and need help setting things up and they will be willing to pay for it. | May 12 04:18 | |
| There may not be as large a demand for this kind of work, but it will be much more enjoyable for everyone involved. | May 12 04:20 | |
| It's better to constructively engage people than to be gruff. They are victims of a billion dollars a month worth of brainwashing advertisement. | May 12 04:22 | |
| Good responses to common objections: | May 12 04:22 | |
| "You get what you pay for." "Sometimes you just pay for the CEO's yacht." | May 12 04:23 | |
| "It's too good to be true. No one works for free." "IBM makes billions a year off it. I'll be happy to install free software for you for $50, and so will Geek Squad." | May 12 04:24 | |
| the_mad_hatter | I think Geek Squad would die without Windows. Most of their work at present is fixing Windows boxes that have died due to virii, trojans, registry, etc. That doesn't happen with Linux. | May 12 04:24 |
| Some kind of service organization will take their place then. | May 12 04:25 | |
| Everyone needs help. | May 12 04:25 | |
| Ten years ago, I paid someone $50 to set up a free software gateway for my network. I considered that a better way to spend my money and equipment than a commercial router. | May 12 04:26 | |
| Geek Squad can do that kind of work if they want to. | May 12 04:26 | |
| People have forever paid premiums for home audio advice, they will do the same with computer equipment. | May 12 04:28 | |
| Where "out of the box" breaks down, service takes over. | May 12 04:28 | |
| the_mad_hatter | They can, but once it's set up, it tends to stay set up, where as Windows deteriorates, and needs regular maintenance. | May 12 04:29 |
| the_mad_hatter | Have you seen this: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/tempers-flare-as-recession-creeps-into.html | May 12 04:29 |
| Sure. | May 12 04:29 | |
| have not seen article yet | May 12 04:30 | |
| Oh yes I did. | May 12 04:30 | |
| It's true that Geek Squad is a parasitic organization. They make money off flaws and push flawed software to do it. That does not mean that there is no room for free software service. | May 12 04:32 | |
| Though, it may mean there is less room for it. | May 12 04:32 | |
| ha ha. | May 12 04:32 | |
| Money wasted on Windows could be put to much more productive things. | May 12 04:33 | |
| Like better hardware. | May 12 04:33 | |
| Configuration services for networks, printers and other stuff. | May 12 04:33 | |
| the_mad_hatter | You have to consider that every cent spent on Microsoft software could have been used to provide jobs in other industries. | May 12 04:33 |
| the_mad_hatter | A lot of johns | May 12 04:33 |
| the_mad_hatter | Sorry, jobs. | May 12 04:34 |
| yes | May 12 04:34 | |
| replacing broken windows is a waste | May 12 04:34 | |
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| Most computer stores earn money on service. They could get the same kind of money helping people with free software. | May 12 04:35 | |
| You have to realize that the difficulty people experience with M$ turns them off. They resent being raped and do their best to avoid computers afterwards. | May 12 04:36 | |
| Some abandon computers all together. This is why Vista is a huge, stinking flop. No one wants to buy another computer - it's something that happened before the recession started. | May 12 04:37 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Compare computers to cars. If cars ran like Windows, they'd be in the shop all the time. There's competition in the auto market though, and reliability is a big selling point. | May 12 04:37 |
| Yes, US automakers so abused their customers that they are going bankrupt. | May 12 04:38 | |
| Windows 7 will convince people that Windows is a dead end. | May 12 04:39 | |
| GNU/Linux will rise after that, if not before. | May 12 04:39 | |
| M$ has broken their basic model: a cheap computer that works "good enough" and is not too hard to use. | May 12 04:40 | |
| the_mad_hatter | But other manufacturers didn't. That's why I like Honda. | May 12 04:40 |
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| mib_uhl8yb | hey | May 12 04:40 |
| The changes to Windows and Office have alienated M$'s core customers beyond repair. | May 12 04:40 | |
| mib_uhl8yb | How come I can't choose my name anymore? | May 12 04:41 |
| Go register with freenode. | May 12 04:41 | |
| *twitter is now known as go_register_with | May 12 04:42 | |
| mib_uhl8yb | Oh, that's okay. | May 12 04:42 |
| *go_register_with is now known as twitter | May 12 04:42 | |
| or use "/nick name" | May 12 04:42 | |
| *mib_uhl8yb is now known as shreddar | May 12 04:42 | |
| shreddar | thanks | May 12 04:42 |
| no problem | May 12 04:43 | |
| *twitter is now known as cheddar | May 12 04:43 | |
| *cheddar is now known as twitter | May 12 04:43 | |
| shreddar | OK what about MS office? | May 12 04:43 |
| what about it? | May 12 04:43 | |
| the_mad_hatter | It's over priced. | May 12 04:43 |
| shreddar | Yeah, and so unusable | May 12 04:44 |
| they eliminated their shortcuts | May 12 04:44 | |
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| so that their big fans curse when running it | May 12 04:44 | |
| the_mad_hatter | I started with Star Office 5.1, and then moved to Open Office when Sun open sourced it. | May 12 04:44 |
| shreddar | You just can't fingure out how to do most of the feature unless you take a class | May 12 04:44 |
| it has always been that way, you might as well learn something free and stable like Open Office or Latex. | May 12 04:45 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Was still running Windows then. Have Open Office on every computer here except the two ancient Macs which run OS9 | May 12 04:45 |
| Kword was nice for quick stuff under Sarge. Something happened to it under Etch. I'm not sure how it's doing now. | May 12 04:46 | |
| it was my favorite for a while | May 12 04:46 | |
| shreddar | I don't even need a Word proccessor | May 12 04:46 |
| the_mad_hatter | Every other OS we run has an Open Office version for it, Ubuntu, Fedora, OSX, and yes, we still have two machines running Winodws. | May 12 04:46 |
| shreddar | I'm not writing a book or making a website | May 12 04:46 |
| It's nice to be able to exchange documents. | May 12 04:47 | |
| shreddar | I also just like having my notebook | May 12 04:47 |
| Word processors are still useful if you have | May 12 04:47 | |
| to do reports. | May 12 04:47 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Heh. We have a lot of writes in the family. Mother in Law is the Poet Laureate where she lives. | May 12 04:47 |
| You might try a journal program if all you want is notes. | May 12 04:48 | |
| shreddar | Like what I've never heard of that | May 12 04:48 |
| Kontact has a very nice journal. | May 12 04:48 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Wife is a song writer, one son writes poems, daughter writes poems, other son is working on three novels, and I'm working on a novel. | May 12 04:48 |
| I still take notes on paper. I convert to html later, if I have the time. Sometimes I just take a picture of my notes and make a gallery of that. | May 12 04:49 | |
| Because people don't need to print as much M$ is having a hard time selling their word processor. | May 12 04:50 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Everything is electronic here. We have a couple of printers, but they hardly ever get used. | May 12 04:50 |
| Collaborative software like Google Office and other web based stuff is obviously superior. | May 12 04:50 | |
| the_mad_hatter | If you are online. | May 12 04:51 |
| when is that not the case? | May 12 04:51 | |
| the_mad_hatter | When I go sit in the park to get peace and quiet. | May 12 04:51 |
| the_mad_hatter | I take the laptop with me. | May 12 04:51 |
| It's easy enough to make an ODF and upload it later. | May 12 04:52 | |
| shreddar | Yeah I do use Google Docs. | May 12 04:52 |
| shreddar | I like it. | May 12 04:52 |
| shreddar | But still my notebook gets all of my freash ideas lately | May 12 04:52 |
| I have not needed it myself, but I can see how it's a lot easier and better than the old way of emailing crap back and forth. | May 12 04:52 | |
| shreddar | It's just more confortable | May 12 04:52 |
| the_mad_hatter | What os do you run? | May 12 04:52 |
| shreddar | Windows | May 12 04:53 |
| What kind of ideas do you have? | May 12 04:53 | |
| shreddar | Well I'm making a comic | May 12 04:53 |
| shreddar | character, places | May 12 04:53 |
| shreddar | plot scenes | May 12 04:53 |
| the_mad_hatter | XP? | May 12 04:54 |
| shreddar | Yes | May 12 04:54 |
| I don't know enough about the tools used for that to tell you anything that's better than paper | May 12 04:54 | |
| shreddar | I've used linux though | May 12 04:54 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10054253-92.html | May 12 04:54 |
| I hate XP more than most versions of windows | May 12 04:54 | |
| shreddar | Really what about Vista? | May 12 04:55 |
| Vista is worse than XP. | May 12 04:55 | |
| shreddar | I thought so. | May 12 04:55 |
| but I have not had to use it myself, so I don't hate it personally :) | May 12 04:55 | |
| shreddar | Oh I've never used it either | May 12 04:56 |
| It's everything Windows is, only more so. | May 12 04:56 | |
| the_mad_hatter | The last decent version of Windows was 3.1, everything since has been going downhill. | May 12 04:56 |
| shreddar | Wasn't the first decent version? | May 12 04:57 |
| more controlling, more invasive, more malicious, more obtuse ... | May 12 04:57 | |
| ** Netsplit | ||
| more controlling, more invasive, more malicious, more obtuse ... | May 12 04:37 | |
| more expensive | May 12 04:37 | |
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| oiaohm_ | Even windows 3.1 had it issues. | May 12 04:37 |
| shreddar | Yeah that's why I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft | May 12 04:38 |
| the_mad_hatter | Vista is the slowest piece of crap in existence. I'm using a 2 1/2 year old Acer laptop, and it runs great with the newest version of Ubuntu | May 12 04:38 |
| what keeps you on windows? | May 12 04:38 | |
| shreddar | Anticompetive practices | May 12 04:38 |
| oiaohm_ | Most are held by lack of intergration between applications. | May 12 04:38 |
| the_mad_hatter | My neighbor has a year old Core 2 Duo desktop, that runs like molasses | May 12 04:38 |
| shreddar | nothing works on anything else | May 12 04:38 |
| hardware? | May 12 04:39 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Most things run on Wine. | May 12 04:39 |
| what do you need to work? | May 12 04:39 | |
| shreddar | Yeah but It like play roulett | May 12 04:39 |
| oiaohm_ | Video level of X11 makes X11 appear slugish. | May 12 04:39 |
| the_mad_hatter | I've helped several people migrate, and Wine (or DOSEMU) have always saved the day. | May 12 04:39 |
| shreddar | You never know what going to be Window only | May 12 04:39 |
| oiaohm_ | Some of Linux problem is appearance. | May 12 04:39 |
| shreddar | And I've never gotten a Wireless card to work right | May 12 04:39 |
| most of the big wifi chip makers are hostile | May 12 04:40 | |
| shreddar | Either with a native driver or the NDis Wrapper | May 12 04:40 |
| don't use NDIS, it is an insecure waste of time. | May 12 04:40 | |
| runs like crap if you do make it work. | May 12 04:40 | |
| It is better to use an older card that works well. | May 12 04:41 | |
| shreddar | I might start going back to linux though just because I miss the control and experience I had on it. | May 12 04:41 |
| An easy distro to try is Mepis. | May 12 04:41 | |
| http://mepis.org | May 12 04:41 | |
| shreddar | My last distro was sabayon | May 12 04:42 |
| shreddar | That was pretty good. | May 12 04:42 |
| I'm not familiar with that. | May 12 04:42 | |
| shreddar | It gentoo | May 12 04:42 |
| shreddar | but pre compiled | May 12 04:42 |
| I've stuck to Debian. It's easier. | May 12 04:42 | |
| Mepis is even easier and it now comes directly through Debian. | May 12 04:42 | |
| It also uses a KDE interface. Gnome makes me crazy. | May 12 04:43 | |
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| shreddar | Yeah Gnome is so old fasioned | May 12 04:43 |
| shreddar | And not ver customizable | May 12 04:43 |
| for a while, Mepis was based on Ubuntu. | May 12 04:44 | |
| shreddar | Funny enough I never used ubuntu. | May 12 04:44 |
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| shreddar | I heard I was good | May 12 04:44 |
| shreddar | it | May 12 04:44 |
| oiaohm_ | Everyone loves to forget numbers of devices that no longer work when windows versions change too. | May 12 04:44 |
| the_mad_hatter | What happened? | May 12 04:44 |
| It is better to start with an easier distro like that. | May 12 04:45 | |
| I'm not sure what happened. | May 12 04:45 | |
| Here's how I'll fix it. | May 12 04:45 | |
| shreddar | I started with Mandrake a loongg time ago | May 12 04:45 |
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| shreddar | Then slackware | May 12 04:45 |
| look everyone is still here | May 12 04:46 | |
| oiaohm_ | A split. | May 12 04:46 |
| the_mad_hatter | all the user names went away, then came back. | May 12 04:46 |
| oiaohm_ | Yep. | May 12 04:46 |
| shreddar | Oh I thought every one dropped out or something | May 12 04:46 |
| I'm not sure what happened there. Very strange. | May 12 04:46 | |
| oiaohm_ | Basicallly the server you were connected was not connected to tha main network for a short mopment. | May 12 04:47 |
| shreddar | IRC is fun | May 12 04:47 |
| oiaohm_ | I was connected to main so I saw you left than join. | May 12 04:47 |
| oiaohm_ | IRC is a decentralised network it does happen from time to time. | May 12 04:47 |
| Unless you want to spend a lot of time with our computer, you should use one of the easier distributions first. | May 12 04:47 | |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 12 04:48 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Ubuntu, Fedora, Sabayon, and Mandrake are all pretty good. | May 12 04:48 |
| Avoid distro hopping. | May 12 04:48 | |
| oiaohm_ | Everyone loves to forget the numbers of devices that no longer work when windows version change. | May 12 04:48 |
| shreddar | That's what I kept doing until I made my own from scatch | May 12 04:49 |
| shreddar | scratch | May 12 04:49 |
| the_mad_hatter | Distro hopping is fun. I'm a member of the OS of the month club. | May 12 04:49 |
| shreddar | I called it cybertron linux | May 12 04:49 |
| oiaohm_ | I am waiting before I start making my own distribution. | May 12 04:49 |
| oiaohm_ | Few features are still missing. | May 12 04:49 |
| every distro will have some drawback | May 12 04:50 | |
| oiaohm_ | openvz to the point that I can run X11 inside so I can run every distribution on 1 kernel. | May 12 04:50 |
| oiaohm_ | Kinda anti draw back move. | May 12 04:51 |
| shreddar | It was just to see if I could build linux from scratch. But then I grew to love my baby. | May 12 04:51 |
| shreddar | Sadly I had to abadon it. :( | May 12 04:51 |
| Is there anything in your distro that you can't find in Debian? | May 12 04:51 | |
| shreddar | No it was bare bones | May 12 04:51 |
| what did you want it to do? | May 12 04:52 | |
| oiaohm_ | There are items that Debian don't ship. | May 12 04:52 |
| oiaohm_ | Yes scary but true. | May 12 04:52 |
| shreddar | I don't know I just did it for fun. | May 12 04:52 |
| ** Netsplit merge | ||
| more expensive | May 12 04:57 | |
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| oiaohm_ | Even windows 3.1 had it issues. | May 12 04:57 |
| shreddar | Yeah that's why I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft | May 12 04:57 |
| the_mad_hatter | Vista is the slowest piece of crap in existence. I'm using a 2 1/2 year old Acer laptop, and it runs great with the newest version of Ubuntu | May 12 04:57 |
| what keeps you on windows? | May 12 04:57 | |
| shreddar | Anticompetive practices | May 12 04:58 |
| oiaohm_ | Most are held by lack of intergration between applications. | May 12 04:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | My neighbor has a year old Core 2 Duo desktop, that runs like molasses | May 12 04:58 |
| shreddar | nothing works on anything else | May 12 04:58 |
| hardware? | May 12 04:58 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Most things run on Wine. | May 12 04:58 |
| what do you need to work? | May 12 04:58 | |
| shreddar | Yeah but It like play roulett | May 12 04:58 |
| oiaohm_ | Video level of X11 makes X11 appear slugish. | May 12 04:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | I've helped several people migrate, and Wine (or DOSEMU) have always saved the day. | May 12 04:58 |
| shreddar | You never know what going to be Window only | May 12 04:59 |
| oiaohm_ | Some of Linux problem is appearance. | May 12 04:59 |
| shreddar | And I've never gotten a Wireless card to work right | May 12 04:59 |
| oiaohm_ | Most people don't understand how much work OEMs with windows go into choosing the right hardware. | May 12 04:59 |
| oiaohm_ | Random pot luck hardware causes random pot luck operation Windows is no better there. | May 12 05:00 |
| oiaohm_ | I guess a chipset where you have to use ndiswrapper shreddar | May 12 05:01 |
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| oiaohm_ | Everyone loves to forget numbers of devices that no longer work when windows versions change too. | May 12 05:04 |
| shreddar | I heard I was good | May 12 05:04 |
| the_mad_hatter | What happened? | May 12 05:04 |
| shreddar | it | May 12 05:04 |
| It is better to start with an easier distro like that. | May 12 05:05 | |
| I'm not sure what happened. | May 12 05:05 | |
| Here's how I'll fix it. | May 12 05:05 | |
| shreddar | I started with Mandrake a loongg time ago | May 12 05:05 |
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| shreddar | Then slackware | May 12 05:05 |
| look everyone is still here | May 12 05:05 | |
| oiaohm_ | A split. | May 12 05:05 |
| the_mad_hatter | all the user names went away, then came back. | May 12 05:05 |
| oiaohm_ | Yep. | May 12 05:05 |
| shreddar | Oh I thought every one dropped out or something | May 12 05:05 |
| I'm not sure what happened there. Very strange. | May 12 05:06 | |
| oiaohm_ | Basicallly the server you were connected was not connected to tha main network for a short mopment. | May 12 05:06 |
| shreddar | IRC is fun | May 12 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | I was connected to main so I saw you left than join. | May 12 05:06 |
| oiaohm_ | IRC is a decentralised network it does happen from time to time. | May 12 05:07 |
| Unless you want to spend a lot of time with our computer, you should use one of the easier distributions first. | May 12 05:07 | |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 12 05:07 | |
| the_mad_hatter | Ubuntu, Fedora, Sabayon, and Mandrake are all pretty good. | May 12 05:08 |
| Avoid distro hopping. | May 12 05:08 | |
| oiaohm_ | Everyone loves to forget the numbers of devices that no longer work when windows version change. | May 12 05:08 |
| shreddar | That's what I kept doing until I made my own from scatch | May 12 05:08 |
| shreddar | scratch | May 12 05:08 |
| the_mad_hatter | Distro hopping is fun. I'm a member of the OS of the month club. | May 12 05:08 |
| shreddar | I called it cybertron linux | May 12 05:09 |
| oiaohm_ | I am waiting before I start making my own distribution. | May 12 05:09 |
| oiaohm_ | Few features are still missing. | May 12 05:09 |
| every distro will have some drawback | May 12 05:09 | |
| oiaohm_ | openvz to the point that I can run X11 inside so I can run every distribution on 1 kernel. | May 12 05:10 |
| oiaohm_ | Kinda anti draw back move. | May 12 05:10 |
| shreddar | It was just to see if I could build linux from scratch. But then I grew to love my baby. | May 12 05:10 |
| shreddar | Sadly I had to abadon it. :( | May 12 05:11 |
| Is there anything in your distro that you can't find in Debian? | May 12 05:11 | |
| shreddar | No it was bare bones | May 12 05:11 |
| what did you want it to do? | May 12 05:11 | |
| oiaohm_ | There are items that Debian don't ship. | May 12 05:11 |
| oiaohm_ | Yes scary but true. | May 12 05:11 |
| shreddar | I don't know I just did it for fun. | May 12 05:11 |
| what do you want windows to do? | May 12 05:12 | |
| shreddar | I like knowing every aspect of my system too. | May 12 05:12 |
| the_mad_hatter | Ohh crap, it's after midnight, I gotta run. | May 12 05:12 |
| shreddar | Basic things not crash on my brocken computer | May 12 05:13 |
| shreddar | bad ram | May 12 05:13 |
| the_mad_hatter | Bye all. | May 12 05:13 |
| shreddar | see ya | May 12 05:13 |
| by mh | May 12 05:13 | |
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| is it really bad ram, or bad software? | May 12 05:13 | |
| shreddar | bad ram I had it tested | May 12 05:13 |
| shreddar | It's both ram too. | May 12 05:13 |
| if that's true, not much will work. | May 12 05:14 | |
| better buy some more. | May 12 05:14 | |
| oiaohm_ | twitter: I do nothing with windows personally. | May 12 05:14 |
| oiaohm_ | I have to manage windows networks. | May 12 05:14 |
| yet you so often recommend it. | May 12 05:14 | |
| shreddar | Yeah It'll cost more then I spent on the computer to replace them. I should just get a new one but I'm brock. | May 12 05:15 |
| I can't believe you tried to sell me M$VC last night. | May 12 05:15 | |
| shreddar | broke | May 12 05:15 |
| oh. | May 12 05:15 | |
| oiaohm_ | twitter simple point here. I compare stuff fairly. | May 12 05:15 |
| you say bad things about GNU and good things about Windows. | May 12 05:16 | |
| oiaohm_ | Somethings are better at this stage on the windows side. | May 12 05:16 |
| shreddar | In what way? | May 12 05:16 |
| Nothing could be worse than running XP, except Vista. | May 12 05:16 | |
| oiaohm_ | Central management of users and machines. Something that freeipa is working on addressing on Linux BSD Solarias and Mac. | May 12 05:17 |
| Every technical advantage is negated by poor networking, instability and lack of freedom. | May 12 05:17 | |
| oiaohm_ | Do you think freeipa is about giving freedom twitter | May 12 05:17 |
| shreddar | Well I'll be happy when PDA's, cell phone, sub-notebook/desktops replace standard PC's | May 12 05:17 |
| I think you don't care about freedom | May 12 05:17 | |
| shreddar | They'll have way more veriety in OS's | May 12 05:17 |
| oiaohm_ | Freedom is a myth. No one can have complete freedom to do anything. | May 12 05:18 |
| People can have software freedom, ohm. | May 12 05:18 | |
| shreddar | Freedom is real I'm sure of it. | May 12 05:18 |
| oiaohm_ | freeipa is about placing restructions on users. | May 12 05:19 |
| oiaohm_ | Even that the source code is open. | May 12 05:19 |
| Who do you work for ohm? | May 12 05:19 | |
| oiaohm_ | selinux can also be used to place restrictions on users. | May 12 05:19 |
| you should make that clear every so often, so people know where you are coming from. | May 12 05:19 | |
| oiaohm_ | Part of the network world is not about freedom twitter | May 12 05:19 |
| freedom is something you have to demand, ohm. | May 12 05:20 | |
| network freedom is important too. | May 12 05:20 | |
| now tell us who you work for. | May 12 05:20 | |
| shreddar | True, a lot of people will give away freedom for something else. | May 12 05:20 |
| They don't understand what they give up, but people are becoming better informed. | May 12 05:21 | |
| oiaohm_ | I work as a contractor to many companies doing network secuirty, system administation. | May 12 05:21 |
| XP, Vista and Windows 7 are teaching them lessons. | May 12 05:21 | |
| Is one of those companies M$, ohm? | May 12 05:21 | |
| oiaohm_ | From a secuirty point of view i don't like windows because I cannot audit source. | May 12 05:21 |
| oiaohm_ | Not one of those companies is M$. | May 12 05:22 |
| insecurity is part of non freedom. | May 12 05:22 | |
| you have to trust without verification | May 12 05:22 | |
| oiaohm_ | Its funny twitter by open source supports as a MS support and by MS supporters as a freetard. | May 12 05:22 |
| shreddar | What? | May 12 05:23 |
| oiaohm_ | I get call both. | May 12 05:23 |
| oiaohm_ | Simple reason I am netrual. | May 12 05:23 |
| oiaohm_ | I look at the advantages and disavantages and make selections. | May 12 05:23 |
| When you recommend specific M$ stuff constantly, you are less than fair. | May 12 05:23 | |
| you overlook advantages | May 12 05:24 | |
| oiaohm_ | When it comes to web servers and firewalls Linux wins. | May 12 05:24 |
| oiaohm_ | When I get ADS in samba I will happly get rid of quite a few Windows servers. | May 12 05:24 |
| for instance, you neglected the tremendous portability advantage GCC offers when you were trying to sell me M$VC for "performance" | May 12 05:24 | |
| If you get rid of Windows, you won't need SMB, a distinct advantage of getting rid of Windows. | May 12 05:25 | |
| Windows is like an anchor on networks, requiring "lowest common denominators" to work. | May 12 05:25 | |
| oiaohm_ | Lot of people I deal with want per user controls managed effectively. | May 12 05:25 |
| That is a misguided effort. | May 12 05:26 | |
| oiaohm_ | This is your problem. The people I deal with don't want freedoms. They want restrictions and secuirty. | May 12 05:26 |
| but one you can roll yourself in free software just as well as you can with non free software. | May 12 05:26 | |
| Everyone wants their freedom, including those who would enslave others. | May 12 05:27 | |
| oiaohm_ | Name the one problem from secuirty of rolling your own. | May 12 05:27 |
| Windows desktops have no security. | May 12 05:27 | |
| Customers who believe it does are ignorant. | May 12 05:28 | |
| oiaohm_ | Default configuration has no secuirty. | May 12 05:28 |
| As you said, you can't audit the source code and the community can't fix it. The sad result is the unending stream of Windows flaws we see all the time. | May 12 05:29 | |
| please don't pretend you can secure Windows. | May 12 05:29 | |
| Omar87 | Is there any difference between Cloud Computing and ordinary hosting solutions, in terms of freedom? (e.g.: All your files, programs and computing is hosted on a server that you have almost not control over.) | May 12 05:29 |
| You can't do any better than M$, Adobe or any of the other big companies who have tried and failed. | May 12 05:30 | |
| oiaohm_ | Most of those windows flaws are no where near as effective when the default configuration is set to something sane. | May 12 05:30 |
| Yes, Omar. With a normal host, you upload normal files that can be transfered to another normal host. | May 12 05:31 | |
| This is not always true with cloud services like facebook. | May 12 05:31 | |
| Omar87 | Oh. | May 12 05:31 |
| oiaohm_ | Linux major advantage in secuirty comes in sane default settings twitter. | May 12 05:31 |
| Sane defaults, good code and other advantages come from freedom, ohm. | May 12 05:32 | |
| oiaohm_ | Secondary advantage in patching speed. But that is still not above blunders like debain screwing up the random generation on openssl. | May 12 05:32 |
| Omar87 | How do I find out whether or not this service I'm using is a Cloud Service? | May 12 05:32 |
| I'm not sure what a Cloud Service is. If you can get your data on and off of it, you have some measure of freedom. | May 12 05:33 | |
| Omar87 | But that's not because Cloud Computing itself is bad, is it? | May 12 05:34 |
| There is, of course, nothing like owning your own machine and paying for nothing but network services. | May 12 05:34 | |
| oiaohm_ | All OS's will blunder from time to time. Secuirty people accept this. Configuration of the security frameworks is keep risk reduction. There are even distrobutions out there that ship with crippled secuirty system. | May 12 05:34 |
| Everything you put into someone else's hands is control you give up. | May 12 05:34 | |
| oiaohm_ | Good example is ubuntu using apparmor. | May 12 05:34 |
| oiaohm_ | Apparmor is documented as broken. | May 12 05:34 |
| Ohm, are you still trying to convince me that Windows can be secured? | May 12 05:35 | |
| All I hear you talking about is free software problems as if they were a big deal. | May 12 05:35 | |
| oiaohm_ | I am trying to point out if you stick head in sand about flaws in Linux people end up using them in spades. | May 12 05:35 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm_: That's like trying to prove that a | May 12 05:35 |
| Omar87 | sorry, by mistake.. | May 12 05:35 |
| oiaohm_ | Windows secuirty is more secure than apparmor. | May 12 05:36 |
| I think, ohm, that you are trolling. | May 12 05:36 | |
| oiaohm_ | I am not. | May 12 05:36 |
| oiaohm_ | There are flaws on both sides. | May 12 05:36 |
| saying bad things about free software and good things about free software on a free software discussion board | May 12 05:36 | |
| oiaohm_ | MS fans stick head in sand over theres. | May 12 05:36 |
| oiaohm_ | Open Soruce fans stick head in sand over theres. | May 12 05:37 |
| oiaohm_ | So I end up in disputes with both. | May 12 05:37 |
| oiaohm_ | If you tried push MS against I would equal rip it to bits. | May 12 05:37 |
| shreddar | I don't have a clue about networking. | May 12 05:37 |
| you pay attention to flaws on one side and try to equate the two. the developer community is well aware of problems you talk about and they discuss things in the correct place. | May 12 05:37 | |
| oiaohm_ | What I do. | May 12 05:37 |
| oiaohm_ | I have had a lot of things corrected over time. | May 12 05:38 |
| oiaohm_ | Biggest recent one was blocking secound level of file monitoring added to the Linux kernel for anti-virus usage. | May 12 05:38 |
| what do you want to know? | May 12 05:38 | |
| oiaohm_ | and sending the work into correcting the file monitoring in Linux. | May 12 05:38 |
| shreddar | Nothing, it just I can barely keep up. | May 12 05:39 |
| that's intentional. M$ tries to replace simple network protocols with their own complex and broken ones. | May 12 05:39 | |
| oiaohm_ | people like you focus on that. | May 12 05:40 |
| oiaohm_ | instead of what features the end company wants. | May 12 05:40 |
| I've read M$'s email. | May 12 05:40 | |
| where they admit doing this. | May 12 05:40 | |
| oiaohm_ | Companies want the means to protect research data from leaking out. | May 12 05:40 |
| some companies want that. | May 12 05:41 | |
| oiaohm_ | Windows does not do that job perfectly. | May 12 05:41 |
| LOL | May 12 05:41 | |
| oiaohm_ | Linux lack the tools to do it well. | May 12 05:41 |
| Windows is a data sieve. It gives the illusion of control. | May 12 05:41 | |
| yet corporate networks that buy the snake oil are home to some of the biggest botnets | May 12 05:42 | |
| oiaohm_ | My corporates are hybred. | May 12 05:42 |
| the herders suck up what they want | May 12 05:42 | |
| users are screwed on both ends | May 12 05:42 | |
| oiaohm_ | Linux systems do offer great network filtering and other controlls. | May 12 05:43 |
| they also lack nightmares like Outlook and IE. | May 12 05:43 | |
| oiaohm_ | So do my windows networks. | May 12 05:43 |
| ha ha. | May 12 05:43 | |
| oiaohm_ | IE is removable. just pain in but. | May 12 05:44 |
| please | May 12 05:44 | |
| oiaohm_ | I never said that I am using anywhere near stock standard twitter | May 12 05:44 |
| what company would go to all of that trouble instead of installing free software? | May 12 05:44 | |
| You fight for freedom and control where the software owners say you can't have it. | May 12 05:45 | |
| what's the point? | May 12 05:45 | |
| by the time you make a Windows network look like a free network, you might as well have used free software. | May 12 05:46 | |
| oiaohm_ | Windows will disappear out my networks over time as feature requirements are ment. | May 12 05:47 |
| You would get your features faster by working with free software. | May 12 05:47 | |
| shreddar | oiaohm_ What features are not met? | May 12 05:47 |
| oiaohm_ | This is where I am netural. I have a checklist of items I need to pass the companies placed requirements. | May 12 05:47 |
| At some point, you have to come to the same conclusion that the Red Hat founders came to. | May 12 05:48 | |
| shreddar | oiaohm_ When do they need to get met? | May 12 05:48 |
| It's easier to work in freedom than it is to bolt free software onto non free OS. | May 12 05:48 | |
| oiaohm_ | http://freeipa.org when complete will fill in the last major secuirty features missing. | May 12 05:48 |
| good questions shreddar | May 12 05:48 | |
| oiaohm_ | KDE working on windows will also allow me to setup a gradual migratation plan. | May 12 05:49 |
| oiaohm_ | So people don't notice the change over that bad. | May 12 05:49 |
| gradual is a loser. M$ will always break you. | May 12 05:49 | |
| Let's look up freeipa http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10054253-92.html | May 12 05:50 | |
| woops | May 12 05:50 | |
| *Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.") | May 12 05:50 | |
| http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+freeipa&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | May 12 05:50 | |
| oiaohm_ | http://freeipa.org/page/V2BPRD Basically everything that makes up version 2. | May 12 05:51 |
| when someone who'd recommend M$VS pushes something, I take it with a large grain of salt. | May 12 05:52 | |
| oiaohm_ | What is the major differices between MSVC and GCC | May 12 05:52 |
| oiaohm_ | Link time optimisation. | May 12 05:53 |
| oiaohm_ | Without it no optimisation can work correctly twitter | May 12 05:53 |
| oiaohm_ | Gcc will either come up to speed or be replaced by llvm. | May 12 05:53 |
| portability and freedom | May 12 05:54 | |
| oiaohm_ | llvm is BSD licenced. | May 12 05:54 |
| as RMS once said, "fuck speed" | May 12 05:54 | |
| oiaohm_ | So in freedom Gcc could be classed as lossing. | May 12 05:54 |
| oiaohm_ | llvm is almost as portable as gcc. | May 12 05:55 |
| please don't BSD troll | May 12 05:55 | |
| oiaohm_ | Claiming that gnu tools to me are good is a joke. | May 12 05:55 |
| oiaohm_ | Some are some are crap. | May 12 05:55 |
| please don't GNU troll | May 12 05:55 | |
| oiaohm_ | Its not troll its the truth. Linux kernel developers hate gcc for its internal errors. It broke Linux's module compadible inside the 1 version of kernel. | May 12 05:57 |
| I think I get your spiel, ohm. You say bad things about free software and good things about M$. | May 12 05:57 | |
| oiaohm_ | MS is a major problem in costs due to cals. Major problems due to poor default configerations. | May 12 05:58 |
| as you've come back to the same shit you were saying last night, I think I've exhausted your repertoire and now you bore me. | May 12 05:58 | |
| oiaohm_ | twitter: you more take the line. That MS has to be all bad. So I point out areas were its not all bad. | May 12 05:59 |
| freedom is good. there is no freedom on Windows. | May 12 05:59 | |
| oiaohm_ | Even the worse built program can give information to make other program better. | May 12 05:59 |
| there are better example in the free software world, but you won't say anything good about them. | May 12 06:00 | |
| oiaohm_ | That is the difference twitter. I am not just about freedom. I want something of quality. | May 12 06:00 |
| You advocate M$. | May 12 06:00 | |
| and shit on GNU. | May 12 06:00 | |
| oiaohm_ | That is where you are wrong. | May 12 06:00 |
| oiaohm_ | You class point out where MS has got it right as advocating. | May 12 06:01 |
| If you've got bug reports for free software, go make them. That's not what this place is for. | May 12 06:01 | |
| oiaohm_ | I have done bug reports on them. | May 12 06:01 |
| Great. If I'm interested I'll know where to find them, if they don't get deleted as trolls | May 12 06:01 | |
| oiaohm_ | If you want to get rid of MS truely. | May 12 06:01 |
| I have gotten rid of M$ where I can. | May 12 06:02 | |
| oiaohm_ | You must close the feature gaps. | May 12 06:02 |
| oiaohm_ | That does not mean clone MS. | May 12 06:02 |
| Free software will never be good enough for you. | May 12 06:02 | |
| oiaohm_ | That is wrong. | May 12 06:02 |
| oiaohm_ | If everything sticks to current time table most likely by end of year. | May 12 06:03 |
| It's been better than Winblows by far for me and my family. It would be better for my place of work. There is no place I can think of where Windows would be useful. | May 12 06:03 | |
| Free software has been more than good enough for me for over 8 years. | May 12 06:04 | |
| oiaohm_ | I see not like me. You look at it as a whole block. Not as something where segments give ideas and guidence to get improvements. | May 12 06:04 |
| Freedom has been more important for me than features or performance, but now I enjoy all of these things. | May 12 06:04 | |
| Yes, I see the whole thing. | May 12 06:05 | |
| oiaohm_ | I see it as segments to meat requirements. | May 12 06:05 |
| oiaohm_ | Something you don't have to work to. | May 12 06:05 |
| I could never, for example, replace Debian with XP, because you think I'd get better C optimization. | May 12 06:05 | |
| oiaohm_ | I cannot do a change in a business that will cripple there operations. | May 12 06:05 |
| Windows routinely cripples operations. | May 12 06:06 | |
| That's the whole story. | May 12 06:06 | |
| No one deploys it without meeting some major data loss or network failure. | May 12 06:07 | |
| oiaohm_ | gcc optimisation and linux kernel failures leads to people trying firefox on Linux finding it slower linux then not wanting to go the Linux path. | May 12 06:07 |
| shreddar | MS will leave because of their crimes against the consumer are increasing eponentially and no amount of astroturffing and bribery will keep people from finding alternative as soon as their available. | May 12 06:07 |
| Firefox sucks because it's optimized around Windows. | May 12 06:07 | |
| oiaohm_ | Nice myth. | May 12 06:08 |
| I got it from Roy, and he cited sources. | May 12 06:08 | |
| shreddar | And it's hacked together over and over. | May 12 06:08 |
| shreddar | I'm using chrome. | May 12 06:08 |
| oiaohm_ | Most of Firefox performance issues comes from sqlite hitting fsync error in Linux kernel. | May 12 06:08 |
| And it does not matter | May 12 06:08 | |
| oiaohm_ | Second thing is profile based optimsation don't work in gcc. | May 12 06:09 |
| oiaohm_ | effectively. | May 12 06:09 |
| the small speed improvement you might see for FF on Windows does not justify the entire Windows disaster | May 12 06:09 | |
| oiaohm_ | Problem here if you have a MS fan demo that against you it becomes a problem. | May 12 06:09 |
| I don't have FF problems because I use Konq | May 12 06:09 | |
| shreddar | konquer how is that working lately? | May 12 06:10 |
| works great, why? | May 12 06:10 | |
| oiaohm_ | Reason why I want those problems gone. Kong don't fly because lot of internal business sites don't support it. | May 12 06:10 |
| shreddar | It was completely inferior to firefox when I used it years ago. | May 12 06:10 |
| oiaohm_ | You have better olds with firefox working with it. | May 12 06:10 |
| It would be better and easier to rip out IIS | May 12 06:10 | |
| oiaohm_ | None of the business I deal with run IIS at all other than for windows update service. | May 12 06:11 |
| the big picture is that my dinky PIII laptop runs rings around better hardware running Windows. | May 12 06:11 | |
| My FF works better than theirs, but I prefer another browser. | May 12 06:12 | |
| I've got a light window manager, so all of my apps fly. | May 12 06:12 | |
| XP can't hold a candle to it. | May 12 06:12 | |
| oiaohm_ | Issue is also migration path. | May 12 06:12 |
| shreddar | Chrome is great I wish Mozilla would make something like it. Simple and Fast. | May 12 06:13 |
| the bottom line issue is that I've got freedom and performance. | May 12 06:13 | |
| oiaohm_ | Deal with business is a lot harder than home. | May 12 06:13 |
| oiaohm_ | I have run Linux at home for years. | May 12 06:13 |
| oiaohm_ | I know what it can do. | May 12 06:13 |
| it's harder with people like you around telling them they just can't go there | May 12 06:13 | |
| oiaohm_ | I don't tell them not to go there. | May 12 06:13 |
| business after business have migrated and saved big money. | May 12 06:14 | |
| oiaohm_ | To be correct I recommend it more often than not. | May 12 06:14 |
| Chrysler, Lowes etc. | May 12 06:14 | |
| Everyone who moves does well. | May 12 06:14 | |
| oiaohm_ | But there have been some equal bad splats. There are risk migrating to the like of Vista or Windows 7. Businesses don't migrate without need or true gains. | May 12 06:15 |
| The freaking French National Police even, sheesh. | May 12 06:15 | |
| oiaohm_ | If they already own XP they are not as interest to move if you drop features. | May 12 06:15 |
| What did they save? 75% of their budget from dumping Windows? | May 12 06:16 | |
| XP is featureless | May 12 06:16 | |
| oiaohm_ | Yet its what you have to bet in every field. | May 12 06:16 |
| Not for long. | May 12 06:17 | |
| and it's better gone. | May 12 06:17 | |
| oiaohm_ | Linux laptop using a network user when not connect to the network? | May 12 06:17 |
| shreddar | oiaohm_ every field? | May 12 06:17 |
| oiaohm_ | That does not work well. | May 12 06:17 |
| Every field he thinks of. | May 12 06:17 | |
| shreddar | In buisness? | May 12 06:18 |
| shreddar | Like advertising? | May 12 06:18 |
| in his dreams | May 12 06:18 | |
| oiaohm_ | Soon the cachefs will be here for Linux allows that to work. | May 12 06:18 |
| oiaohm_ | In business. | May 12 06:18 |
| oiaohm_ | There are gaps. | May 12 06:18 |
| oiaohm_ | most will be filled by end of year. | May 12 06:19 |
| monkey boy business and monkey boy revenue gaps | May 12 06:19 | |
| the revenue gap will expand and expand | May 12 06:19 | |
| until poof, Enron part 2 | May 12 06:19 | |
| oiaohm_ | X11 server that was Open source equal to Enron. | May 12 06:19 |
| oiaohm_ | Complete internal disaster zone. | May 12 06:20 |
| oiaohm_ | Sticking head in sand about its flaws allowed it to happen twitter | May 12 06:20 |
| shreddar | Enron what open source? or what X11 a scam that costed peoples retirement. | May 12 06:21 |
| shreddar | replace what with was | May 12 06:21 |
| shreddar | I Saying type was ment don't | May 12 06:22 |
| shreddar | from now on I keep my hand of [shift] too. | May 12 06:24 |
| shreddar | off | May 12 06:24 |
| M$ is Enron | May 12 06:25 | |
| Shreddar, let's talk about how to get something useful out of Konq. | May 12 06:26 | |
| shreddar | Ok | May 12 06:26 |
| shreddar | How? | May 12 06:26 |
| Konq has problems with some M$ and non free pages, you should try to right click open those with FF, like you might have once done with IE on windows. | May 12 06:27 | |
| Once you get around that limitation, the cool stuff Konq has to offer pays off. | May 12 06:27 | |
| like VI motion commands. | May 12 06:27 | |
| you don't have to take your hands off the keyboard to scroll through web pages with Konq. | May 12 06:28 | |
| j is down, k is up, h is left, l is right. That's one of my favorite features. | May 12 06:28 | |
| Konq is probably the best file manager you will find. | May 12 06:29 | |
| split screens and excellent protocol support make it that way. | May 12 06:29 | |
| shreddar | Well I don't know if this has change since KDE 3 or not but I found the interface wasn't as nice as Firefoxes. And it didn't have any speed advanteges either. | May 12 06:30 |
| shreddar | Konq is the best file manage though | May 12 06:30 |
| I'm using 3.5 and there's a speed advantage for all but a few pages I look at. | May 12 06:30 | |
| the pages that slow it down are non standards compliant junk for the most part. | May 12 06:31 | |
| and vi motion commands make up for the speed difference. | May 12 06:32 | |
| I can read the page faster because I can scroll through it better. | May 12 06:32 | |
| shreddar | Well, memory usage was a issue back then now I bet it wouldn't matter. | May 12 06:32 |
| I get good performance out of 512 MB of RAM. | May 12 06:33 | |
| E16 helps | May 12 06:33 | |
| Konq does bookmarks well | May 12 06:34 | |
| the book mark bar is very flexible and most edits happen on the fly, without calling up a bookmark manager | May 12 06:35 | |
| I've got bookmark sub folders for news, manuals, host locations, my system and various other often referenced material. It's very easy to use. | May 12 06:36 | |
| shreddar | I don't even use Firefox anymore. I use Chrome now. I love the interface and speed. | May 12 06:36 |
| I have not tried Chrome. What about the interface do you like? | May 12 06:36 | |
| shreddar | It's simple | May 12 06:36 |
| shreddar | It's what a browser should be. | May 12 06:37 |
| what did you not like about Konq that was not simple? | May 12 06:37 | |
| shreddar | It stays out of your way | May 12 06:37 |
| I did not like the side bar, and I got rid of it. | May 12 06:37 | |
| shreddar | I haven't used Konq in forever. | May 12 06:37 |
| my bookmarks and the buttons I have are things I use a lot and want. | May 12 06:38 | |
| shreddar | I feel like I have to show it too you to explain. | May 12 06:39 |
| shreddar | I just like the speed and interface alot. | May 12 06:40 |
| shreddar | Even though it's still missing alot of features I used on firefox alot. | May 12 06:41 |
| shreddar | I just keep automatically using it. | May 12 06:41 |
| shreddar | It was ment to be. | May 12 06:41 |
| It looks a lot like IE7, ick. http://www.google.com/chrome | May 12 06:43 | |
| shreddar | Nuh Uhh! | May 12 06:43 |
| I'm sure it works better than IE7, but I'd miss my bookmarks | May 12 06:43 | |
| shreddar | IE7's interface sucks. | May 12 06:44 |
| shreddar | It's completely unusable. | May 12 06:44 |
| shreddar | The most unusable. | May 12 06:44 |
| shreddar | To me. | May 12 06:44 |
| shreddar | Chrome is just so transparent | May 12 06:45 |
| shreddar | IE7 is not by a long shot. | May 12 06:45 |
| comparing to http://news.cnet.com/2300-1032_3-6033426-1.html | May 12 06:46 | |
| with Konq's nice split screen view. | May 12 06:46 | |
| funny how Chrome has Vista's ugly buttons on the window decoration and Cnet has XP. | May 12 06:47 | |
| Chrome has put the tabs on top, which is backward from what I'd want. I more often bounce between tabs than I hit the address bar. | May 12 06:47 | |
| IE7 is more cluttered but the basic buttons are the same. | May 12 06:48 | |
| I doubt either of them do pdf integration as well as Konq does through kpdf (I know IE7 sucks eggs) | May 12 06:48 | |
| both Crome and IE7's book marks look like a blast from the past, sort of like what you can get from Dillo. | May 12 06:49 | |
| shreddar | I know what you mean Opera did tap on top and it did not work for me but with in chrome it's perfect. | May 12 06:50 |
| though it is unfair of me to judge Chrome by appearance alone, I know that IE 7 sucks. | May 12 06:50 | |
| how is it easier for you in Chrome but not in Opera? | May 12 06:50 | |
| shreddar | Chrome was designed for it. | May 12 06:51 |
| shreddar | With Opera they just kind of made it that way. | May 12 06:51 |
| the "one box for everything" is something that drives me crazy the way IE did it. | May 12 06:51 | |
| shreddar | Tabs are on the top in Chrome because you are going to use them alot. | May 12 06:52 |
| shreddar | In opera they are just above the bar but not really on top | May 12 06:52 |
| I like having a search box distinct from an address bar. | May 12 06:52 | |
| shreddar | That one thing I love about Chrome actually | May 12 06:53 |
| If you use the a lot they should be closer, so you don't have to mouse as far. | May 12 06:53 | |
| shreddar | They are in plane site | May 12 06:53 |
| shreddar | The tabs define how you're using it. | May 12 06:54 |
| you can see them in either place. | May 12 06:54 | |
| I like chrome's new tab with page previews. That's a good idea. | May 12 06:54 | |
| a little heavy but nice. | May 12 06:54 | |
| shreddar | In Chrome you have two bars the Tabs and the location bar. | May 12 06:55 |
| I still prefer my bookmarks because it organizes more information. | May 12 06:55 | |
| shreddar | It just makes sence in chrome to have the Tabs on top | May 12 06:55 |
| and is always where I left it. | May 12 06:55 | |
| shreddar | Yeah, bookmarks is one of the things in chrome that need to be improved | May 12 06:56 |
| detachable tabs is something konq has done for a long time. it's a good feature. | May 12 06:56 | |
| when you have a new research aim, you usually want to detach it. | May 12 06:57 | |
| shreddar | I wish they have a new tab page like interface for bookmarks that you could add and remove links. | May 12 06:57 |
| in konq you add and remove links by right click. | May 12 06:57 | |
| just open your book marks to where you want the link to go and right click it in there. this is a very useful feature. | May 12 06:58 | |
| shreddar | Yeah chrome does that but the menu thing dissabppear afterward which is anyoying. | May 12 06:58 |
| you can also right click edit your existing book marks in case the site moves on you. | May 12 06:58 | |
| shreddar | The bookmarks manager works fine though | May 12 06:59 |
| shreddar | But I haven't used those in firefox in forever | May 12 06:59 |
| I like having my bookmarks organized the way I like them and out front all of the time. | May 12 06:59 | |
| I also like how I don't have to call a manager to arrange them. | May 12 07:00 | |
| shreddar | I don't really use bookmarks like I used to. | May 12 07:02 |
| shreddar | The location bar has made it easier to get to places since Firefox 2 | May 12 07:03 |
| shreddar | It's only gotten better since. | May 12 07:03 |
| shreddar | Now it's just hard to find stuff I bookmark | May 12 07:04 |
| shreddar | Or stuff I want to remember | May 12 07:04 |
| shreddar | I mean I only bookmark stuff that's hard to find | May 12 07:05 |
| shreddar | or remember | May 12 07:05 |
| Konq's bookmark subfolders are good for organizing the obscure stuff. | May 12 07:06 | |
| I mostly use book marks for frequent use things. | May 12 07:06 | |
| they stand right up front | May 12 07:06 | |
| more obscure stuff sits nested. | May 12 07:06 | |
| things like other hosts I have accounts on go into a "hosts" bookmark folder | May 12 07:07 | |
| I hit that one a lot. | May 12 07:07 | |
| shreddar | I don't even use folders anymore. I'm a bit of a minimalist though. | May 12 07:08 |
| I like Chrome's talk about tab independence, but I avoid that problem by avoiding pages with nasty javascript in the first place. | May 12 07:08 | |
| I'm lazy. | May 12 07:08 | |
| shreddar | I only have four icon on the desktop | May 12 07:08 |
| folders help me with that | May 12 07:08 | |
| I have no icons on my desktop. | May 12 07:08 | |
| just kicker and E16's icon box with a few common running apps | May 12 07:09 | |
| If I want it, I leave it running in a different virtual window. | May 12 07:09 | |
| I hibernate of suspend so everything I'm doing is always where I left it, but that's not really a browser issue. | May 12 07:10 | |
| shreddar | Have you used KDE4? | May 12 07:10 |
| not yet | May 12 07:10 | |
| The other way to get around the sad tab problem is to just open new browser windows for new projects. | May 12 07:11 | |
| I end up with lots of tabs when I get busy. | May 12 07:12 | |
| I'm way not busy now and only have one browser with 9 tabs. I could almost do that on Windows, ha ha. | May 12 07:12 | |
| shreddar | Tabs can be abused. | May 12 07:12 |
| shreddar | I still rember what it was like before tabs though | May 12 07:12 |
| by who? | May 12 07:12 | |
| There's nothing like having lots of tabs to be able to read a lot of pdfs in Konq for research. | May 12 07:13 | |
| shreddar | Anything above 18 Tab is just incorect | May 12 07:13 |
| shreddar | incorrect | May 12 07:13 |
| shreddar | **** | May 12 07:14 |
| I generally don't go beyond 10. At that point, I spawn a new copy of Konq and put it on a new desktop. | May 12 07:14 | |
| shreddar | oh yeah I forgot about doing that. But still it hard to manages that many things. | May 12 07:15 |
| I've had as many as six desktops, each with 9 virtual windows to organize my work. Each of those six desktops had at least one copy of Konq in it. | May 12 07:15 | |
| A good window manager makes things easy. | May 12 07:15 | |
| shreddar | You have to clean out the attic every now an then | May 12 07:15 |
| I ran for months like this. | May 12 07:15 | |
| shreddar | Wow | May 12 07:15 |
| It was very good for productivity because I never had to shut down my work. | May 12 07:16 | |
| This is what E16 is best at: Place Keeping. | May 12 07:16 | |
| Each desktop was devoted to some part of my work: coding, paper writing, data analysis, email and so on. | May 12 07:16 | |
| *benJIman tends to use a few hundred windows with lots of tabs in many of them. | May 12 07:17 | |
| all with Novel porn. | May 12 07:17 | |
| :) | May 12 07:17 | |
| I went for months without using FF on that machine too. Stability was paramount, so questionable browsing took place on other machines. | May 12 07:19 | |
| The one thing that would blow me up was forgetting about SD in a Card Slot and shutting the lid. APM did not deal gracefully with that for some reason. | May 12 07:20 | |
| In any case, the memory issue Chrome talks about is not something that I saw much of using Konqueror. | May 12 07:21 | |
| closing tabs really did free the memory if I got too much going. | May 12 07:22 | |
| shreddar | Yeah firefox was what really had the problem there. | May 12 07:22 |
| shreddar | But firefox had lots of memory issues | May 12 07:23 |
| shreddar | Still does compare to acouple of other browsers | May 12 07:23 |
| shreddar | Chrome Safari Opera all use less memory | May 12 07:23 |
| shreddar | The only thing I didn't like about KDE was their browser | May 12 07:25 |
| I find Konq indispensable. | May 12 07:26 | |
| shreddar | You'd think it'd be faster than firefox because it uses the same libraries but I could really tell. | May 12 07:26 |
| shreddar | couldn't | May 12 07:26 |
| Konq has it's own libraries | May 12 07:26 | |
| shreddar | It uses QT | May 12 07:27 |
| shreddar | firefox uses QTK | May 12 07:27 |
| shreddar | GTK | May 12 07:27 |
| It took me a while to learn how to use Konq. | May 12 07:27 | |
| shreddar | running Konq in KDE | May 12 07:27 |
| shreddar | it's jus tQT | May 12 07:27 |
| It's been a while since I've used the KDE desktop. | May 12 07:28 | |
| shreddar | running KDE and firefox use QT and GTK | May 12 07:28 |
| My wife loves it. | May 12 07:28 | |
| I like E16 better. | May 12 07:28 | |
| The pagers make things work for me. | May 12 07:28 | |
| and it's light. | May 12 07:28 | |
| shreddar | E16 is a fine window manager | May 12 07:28 |
| shreddar | I used it too | May 12 07:29 |
| it takes a little getting used to. | May 12 07:29 | |
| shreddar | I was really swanky | May 12 07:29 |
| shreddar | eye candy | May 12 07:29 |
| and a little, easy customiazation. | May 12 07:29 | |
| shreddar | It worked well | May 12 07:29 |
| that's what matters most | May 12 07:29 | |
| shreddar | but it was old | May 12 07:30 |
| shreddar | and well... | May 12 07:30 |
| I like the kicker, which is KDE's system bar. | May 12 07:30 | |
| it works well with E16 | May 12 07:30 | |
| shreddar | Why? | May 12 07:31 |
| It looses the transparency but it's system tray holds things like pidgin's icon. | May 12 07:31 | |
| kpowersave also lives there | May 12 07:31 | |
| shreddar | Oh. | May 12 07:32 |
| kmix, klipper and kdict | May 12 07:32 | |
| KDE's menu organization is nice sometimes | May 12 07:32 | |
| kweather and a few application launchers are also good to have | May 12 07:33 | |
| shreddar | I actually settled on blackbox after awhile. | May 12 07:33 |
| I tried that for a while but probably did not give it a fair chance. | May 12 07:33 | |
| shreddar | All window managers are about the same. | May 12 07:34 |
| shreddar | Some work better than others. | May 12 07:34 |
| does it have E16 quality pagers? | May 12 07:34 | |
| shreddar | No. | May 12 07:34 |
| that's a big deal for me | May 12 07:34 | |
| and anyone who has a lot of projects in the air would use them if they had them. | May 12 07:35 | |
| another nice thing about E16 - all applications are equal. | May 12 07:36 | |
| tacone | http://digg.com/tech_news/Why_baseball_benched_Microsoft_Silverlight_CNET_News | May 12 07:36 |
| the button bar and icons get overlaid when you ant them to be. | May 12 07:36 | |
| funny | May 12 07:36 | |
| what a major league embarrassment | May 12 07:37 | |
| LMAO -> "baseball wanted Microsoft to make it possible for users to download Silverlight without having to possess administrative rights. When people are at work, it's often the company that possesses those rights" | May 12 07:40 | |
| -> " baseball considered Silverlight too unstable. There were some high-profile glitches, " | May 12 07:40 | |
| shreddar | Yeah, I'm sure offices are happy about their workers watching baseball too. | May 12 07:41 |
| shreddar | When you need to the most | May 12 07:41 |
| M$ will surely fix that hole by pushing Silverblight as a Windows Update. | May 12 07:42 | |
| but they won't be able to fix the stability problems. | May 12 07:42 | |
| shreddar | Automatic update | May 12 07:42 |
| ->" Silverlight was also suspected by many Netflix users of being the cause for a recent series of glitches that occurred with Netflix's streaming-video service. Microsoft appeared to acknowledge that its player was the cause " | May 12 07:42 | |
| service pack, whatever. | May 12 07:43 | |
| but they fight ogg with all of their might. | May 12 07:43 | |
| the more the push this crap, the more broken they are | May 12 07:44 | |
| shreddar | Is video streaming apart of the HTML 5 standard? or is it just video. | May 12 07:44 |
| I'm not sure of the difference | May 12 07:45 | |
| Konq already handles theora beautifully. | May 12 07:45 | |
| perhaps not in page, but in a new tab perfectly. | May 12 07:46 | |
| shreddar | Didn't know that. | May 12 07:46 |
| right click opening it pulls an embedded kmplayer for me. | May 12 07:46 | |
| you might have a different media player | May 12 07:46 | |
| this is something that's worked well for a while. EEEPC has it and that's Xandros from 2006 | May 12 07:47 | |
| I like how the baseball people noticed that Silverlight only works with IE. | May 12 07:48 | |
| shreddar | does the <video> player only play after downloading? | May 12 07:48 |
| locks out iphone, Mac and GNU/Linux. | May 12 07:48 | |
| I'm not sure about the mechanics, it seems to play right away. | May 12 07:48 | |
| let me go test it out again to be sure | May 12 07:49 | |
| oiaohm_ | video tag can be used for stream playing but it will come down to browser how exactly it does it. | May 12 07:50 |
| shreddar | Alright the first thing I tried to use was safari's (a webkit build) implementation and the whole file had to download first. | May 12 07:50 |
| oiaohm_ | That is a implementation selection. | May 12 07:51 |
| oiaohm_ | ogg flv and the like files can play partly downloaded. | May 12 07:51 |
| yes, that seems to be the way it works. | May 12 07:51 | |
| if the site bandwith is sucky, you are better off waiting for it anyway. | May 12 07:52 | |
| shreddar | I can't wait till safari 4 and Firefox 3.5 come out to support it. | May 12 07:52 |
| ISP interference with YouTube is one reason I prefer to use clive over gnash or flash. | May 12 07:52 | |
| Yes, it will be cool to have better web video. | May 12 07:53 | |
| twitter is sleepy, must sleep. good night | May 12 07:53 | |
| oiaohm_ | whole file download is simpler to implement. No predictive downloading feature required. | May 12 07:53 |
| shreddar | good night | May 12 07:53 |
| oiaohm_ | good night twitter | May 12 07:54 |
| oiaohm_ | X11 failure I was refering to crippled unix so it could not compete with Windows in the early days and proceed through to only recently turning around. On scale of damage in compare enron is nothing. | May 12 07:56 |
| oiaohm_ | The failure to care about lower parts of the OS leads to stalled progress. | May 12 07:57 |
| shreddar | Well, it's late here too. I'll talk to you guy's again some other time. Good night. | May 12 08:02 |
| *shreddar (i=62f0385b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-072d4c811bf7e5fa) has left #boycottnovell | May 12 08:02 | |
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| schestowitz | Morning. | May 12 08:37 |
| tacone | morning. | May 12 08:42 |
| schestowitz | I have a question | May 12 08:53 |
| schestowitz | First, let me restart KDE | May 12 08:58 |
| schestowitz | It says too much (what I just sent), right? | May 12 09:01 |
| schestowitz | Are Yahoo Investors Now Tuning Ballmer Out? < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-ballmer-bump-yahoo-stock/ > | May 12 09:04 |
| schestowitz | Turning Out The Lights: Aspen Medtech Inc. < http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2009/05/08/turning-out-the-lights-aspen-medtech-inc/ > | May 12 09:05 |
| schestowitz | Tim Anderson (of Microsoft fans) seems to be sort of advertising bashing of Google: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/11/yahoo_future/ | May 12 09:21 |
| schestowitz | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/sec-881-cyberbullying-unworkable/ "Just as in “reallife” bullying and stalking are very distressing, but then in real life we cant just hit the power button (unlike in the computing world) If you are an adult and find any of the above happening, then Id suggest either making an anon handle or simply not using your computer." | May 12 09:24 |
| schestowitz | "In the case of children that is different, but then I wouldnt let mine on ANY computer unless they were fully supervised at all times." | May 12 09:24 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 12 09:34 |
| _Hicham_ | good morning schestowitz! | May 12 09:34 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 12 09:39 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I sent you a sort of quick draft | May 12 09:40 |
| tacone | schestowitz: i am replying in prv | May 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | I'll fix it | May 12 09:40 |
| _Hicham_ | no prv please | May 12 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft to raise $3.75B in first debt offering < http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Microsoft-to-raise-375B-in-apf-15209527.html?.v=10 > | May 12 09:45 |
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| schestowitz | Obama vows antitrust crackdown < http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/11/news/economy/antitrust/?postversion=2009051112 > | May 12 10:05 |
| schestowitz | "Among the bigger cases, Microsoft (MSFT, Fortune 500) was fined $1.2 billion by the European Commission in February 2008 after it was found to be pricing out rivals and refusing to comply with the court's previous antitrust decision." | May 12 10:06 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu Muslim Edition Is Now Known as Sabily < http://news.softpedia.com/news/Softpedia-Linux-Weekly-Issue-44-111257.shtml#0 > Canonical goes around with its trademark | May 12 10:07 |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI1OA Strange company combination. | May 12 10:13 |
| schestowitz | http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090511/ap_on_hi_te/us_tec_antitrust_enforcement_silicon_valley < Tech firms could see fallout from antitrust shift > | May 12 10:17 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: indeed | May 12 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Does Nokia even have any x86 devices? | May 12 10:17 |
| oiaohm | Not as far as I know. | May 12 10:17 |
| ushimitsudoki | The anti-trust news is interesting and encouraging. It's the first sign I've seen out of the Obama camp that he may be making some right moves against corporate power in the US. Here's hoping, at least, for now. | May 12 10:18 |
| oiaohm | Intel does produce a range of arm chips. | May 12 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Mobile Internet Has Grown by 74% in 2 Years < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/05/11/mobile-internet-has-grown-by-74-in-2-years > | May 12 10:20 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: it's easy to say so | May 12 10:22 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: indeed. we will see what actions are actually taken | May 12 10:22 |
| schestowitz | Yesterday I saw the claim that national debt is $56 trillion. Have you come across this before? | May 12 10:22 |
| ushimitsudoki | If the "national debt clock" is accurate its 11T: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ | May 12 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Reporter Questions Why The NY Times Erased All His Work For The International Herald Tribune < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090511/0104254828.shtml > | May 12 10:24 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: that's the thing, it's not | May 12 10:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msPb565gLso (56 Trillion Dollar Debt). Can we find another independent source to verify? | May 12 10:24 |
| ushimitsudoki | That's the same number (roughly) the US Treasury gives ($11T) | May 12 10:25 |
| schestowitz | The 56 Trillion Dollar Plus Question < http://www.nolanchart.com/article972.html > | May 12 10:25 |
| schestowitz | US Treasury is as reliable as the employment offices and Federal reserve | May 12 10:25 |
| schestowitz | They change what they measure over the years | May 12 10:25 |
| schestowitz | '\According to USA Today,(1), 221 days from the day this article was published, the reality for the American Taxpayer is this - | May 12 10:26 |
| schestowitz | "Bottom line: Taxpayers are now on the hook for a record $59.1 trillion in liabilities, a 2.3% increase from 2006. That amount is equal to $516,348 for every U.S. household. By comparison, U.S. households owe an average of $112,043 for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and all other debt combined." ' | May 12 10:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm | May 12 10:26 |
| schestowitz | Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion < http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-05-28-federal-budget_N.htm?csp=34 > | May 12 10:27 |
| schestowitz | I guess it's likely to be true, then. | May 12 10:27 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: the USA Today article that the whole thing is based on looks like a political attack from the Republicans. I wouldn't throw a whole lot of stock into that just yet | May 12 10:27 |
| schestowitz | I wonder how the UK compares to that (not an apple-to-oranges assessment) | May 12 10:27 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: OK, let me see more sources | May 12 10:27 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: not that I'm holding up the Treasury numbers as perfection or anything, but that USA Today article is the base for the nolanchart.com article, and the USA Today article is awful thin on facts - that's all | May 12 10:28 |
| schestowitz | http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032007/hhinc/new04_001.htm | May 12 10:28 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | May 12 10:28 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: what about the video I've just shown you? | May 12 10:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.richardroop.com/custom/index.cfm?id=175350 "On March 17, 2009, CBS News reported the national U.S. debt hit a record $11 trillion." | May 12 10:29 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : do u consider kernel 2.6.30 a significant milestone ? | May 12 10:30 |
| schestowitz | "However The Real National Debt with unfunded liabilities included is about $56.4 trillion. The U.S. Census Bureau estimates the U.S. population at 305.5 million." | May 12 10:30 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.31 will be more significate by what I am allready being setup for it. | May 12 10:30 |
| schestowitz | Links to: http://www.pgpf.org/ | May 12 10:30 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.30 will be a good improvement. | May 12 10:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pgpf.org/multimedia/ | May 12 10:31 |
| schestowitz | I think it's the same dude from the Maher show | May 12 10:32 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: that pgpf.org is a political organization. they are counting medicare and social security as public debt for starters, which is a redefining of what "national debt" means. that's why they call it the "real national debt". They may or may not have a point - but it's certainly not true that "the national debt" in the sense it is commonly understood is $56T | May 12 10:32 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.30 introduces generical filesystem cache support to Linux that will be great for network filesystem and other slow media like cdroms. | May 12 10:33 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: thanks, that makes sense | May 12 10:34 |
| ushimitsudoki | schestowitz: the "peter g peterson" is a fiscal conservative, ex-Commerce Secretary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_George_Peterson | May 12 10:34 |
| schestowitz | At least I found out where it all comes from | May 12 10:34 |
| ushimitsudoki | Again, they may or may not have a point, but it is definately a political issue | May 12 10:34 |
| schestowitz | More on the loss in Australia: Linux pioneer dies in tragic circumstances < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24967/1143/ > | May 12 10:35 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: where does the money come from? | May 12 10:35 |
| ushimitsudoki | what money? | May 12 10:36 |
| schestowitz | It's a zero-sum situation, right? | May 12 10:36 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: borrowed money | May 12 10:36 |
| ushimitsudoki | shit man i'm not an economist | May 12 10:36 |
| schestowitz | Me neither | May 12 10:36 |
| schestowitz | That's why I asked | May 12 10:36 |
| ushimitsudoki | but no, i don't think a national economy is a zero-sum situation | May 12 10:36 |
| schestowitz | The Fedral Reserve is very secrective | May 12 10:36 |
| ushimitsudoki | for one thing, over time the stock market has averaged like 11% annual gain, even including the great depression and so forth | May 12 10:37 |
| schestowitz | It's established as a private body more secretive than the secret services, which must disclose docs after a period of time (I think it's called info freedom of transparency act) | May 12 10:37 |
| oiaohm | http://www.elx.com.au/ I reallly hope his shop keeps running schestowitz. | May 12 10:37 |
| ushimitsudoki | I think that large economies are able to "create wealth", meaning they are not zero-sum | May 12 10:37 |
| ushimitsudoki | But, again man, I haven't studied economics since freshman college, ages ago | May 12 10:37 |
| oiaohm | There is a difference. The great depression was built out of. Production creates gain. | May 12 10:40 |
| oiaohm | This may be the first event that breaks the 11% rule. | May 12 10:41 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: maybe you can help him | May 12 10:41 |
| schestowitz | Contact the family | May 12 10:41 |
| schestowitz | Assuming no partner of his will carry on running the shop | May 12 10:41 |
| schestowitz | He has a 8-y-o :-( | May 12 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Very tragic | May 12 10:42 |
| oiaohm | 11% rule was never designed to cope with a market being fueled on fake money. | May 12 10:42 |
| ushimitsudoki | Well, economic theory is both complex and not interesting to me, so I can't really speak on it too much. | May 12 10:42 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: since when has the USD not been tied to gold? | May 12 10:42 |
| schestowitz | One source says early 70s | May 12 10:42 |
| schestowitz | So it's perceptual value | May 12 10:42 |
| schestowitz | As one person put it, trading in USD is a matter of time | May 12 10:43 |
| oiaohm | That is what causes this mess currently people used economic theory. | May 12 10:43 |
| oiaohm | Not common sence. | May 12 10:43 |
| schestowitz | To trade in USD "never made political sense to them, but nor does it make economic sense (soon)" | May 12 10:43 |
| oiaohm | A fraud will always been shown in time. | May 12 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft debt offering raises questions about plans for funds < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_debt_offering_raises_questions_about_plans_for_funds_44725857.html > | May 12 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft debt | May 12 10:44 |
| schestowitz | it claims to have money in the bank | May 12 10:44 |
| schestowitz | Why debt? | May 12 10:44 |
| schestowitz | Are they faking? | May 12 10:44 |
| schestowitz | Were we right all along? Who the heck knows... | May 12 10:44 |
| ushimitsudoki | Officially, the US came off in 1971 under Nixon | May 12 10:44 |
| schestowitz | Bush challenges him for "worst president " :-D | May 12 10:45 |
| oiaohm | If you look at the rate MS eats through money 25 billion is not a lot of money. | May 12 10:46 |
| schestowitz | Bruce Jaffe lands here http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Former_Twitter_Microsoft_executives_create_new_startup_Diger_44683772.html something to watch out for because they could serve MS | May 12 10:48 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: see military budget alone | May 12 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Exceeding one trillion dollars per year almost | May 12 10:49 |
| schestowitz | A lot of it is dark. It's never shown to the public and some goes to nuclear programs | May 12 10:49 |
| schestowitz | European Commission pushes for software patents via a trusted court < https://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/European_Commission_pushes_for_software_patents_via_a_trusted_court > | May 12 10:50 |
| oiaohm | http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=MSFT Notice net income at bottom. Its the reason why MS is cutting staff. Last time around there were under 3 billion dollars off going backwards. | May 12 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Opps | May 12 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Ok that works. | May 12 10:55 |
| schestowitz | tacone: "Update: I wrote that AFTER going to #ubuntuone to ask about the source code. Apparently people that don't have apt or .deb on their machine are not very well received, as they get told to download the .deb with apt." http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/05/11/667-in-the-ghetto | May 12 10:57 |
| tacone | yes, that's obvious | May 12 10:58 |
| tacone | what Hub doesn't figure out, is that it's unlikely for canonical to put out a beta service on every platform | May 12 10:58 |
| tacone | they support only Jaunty at the moment. not even Intrepid or Hardy LTS | May 12 10:59 |
| tacone | that does make sense | May 12 10:59 |
| schestowitz | http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=NOVL | May 12 10:59 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/california-launches-open-source-digital-textbook-initiative.ars Something that is over due. | May 12 10:59 |
| schestowitz | <yeah | May 12 11:00 |
| ushimitsudoki | California and Texas pretty much set the standard for text books across the entire US. If both were to adopt Arnold's plan - or something like it - it could be a major event | May 12 11:01 |
| schestowitz | Did Martin LaMonica leave CNET? I've just realised that he sort of vanished. | May 12 11:01 |
| schestowitz | CNET is a mess | May 12 11:01 |
| ushimitsudoki | There are a ton of politics behind textbooks though - especially science ones, so it's hard to see what might happen there just yet | May 12 11:01 |
| schestowitz | Windows posts get tagged as "open source" | May 12 11:02 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if it's deliberate | May 12 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Size of mess there I would not suspect deliberate. | May 12 11:05 |
| oiaohm | More new person getting use to the ropes. | May 12 11:06 |
| schestowitz | CNET you mean? | May 12 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Yes cnet | May 12 11:15 |
| oiaohm | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7027487400.html << Hmm not sure I want this to be the next generation of computers. | May 12 11:16 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows is Open Source? | May 12 11:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Maybe | May 12 11:18 |
| tacone | they'll even release windows as gpl3 in the future, provided is just a client for their WindowsOne cloud service :P | May 12 11:18 |
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| _Hicham_ | If Microsoft starts coding for Linux, is that a Victory? | May 12 11:22 |
| schestowitz | tacone: LOL | May 12 11:23 |
| oiaohm | No the day Microsoft open admits as coding for Linux. | May 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Why does hubert even mind UbuntuOne? | May 12 11:23 |
| oiaohm | Without MS support Novell would be a non existant company right now. | May 12 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Does it relate to tasking? | May 12 11:23 |
| tacone | because he's a FOSS supporter | May 12 11:24 |
| tacone | the very same reason why he ported tomboy. | May 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: they don't get much real support anymore | May 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | They get injections | May 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | They had no major contract | May 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | In like 6 months | May 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Their results later this months cannot be good | May 12 11:24 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu tries to be a Windows Clone | May 12 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Mac | May 12 11:25 |
| _Hicham_ | they are just experiencing ways to have money | May 12 11:25 |
| _Hicham_ | sooner of later they will go all Linux companies way | May 12 11:25 |
| _Hicham_ | a supported product, and a community one | May 12 11:25 |
| tacone | they already do | May 12 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Redhat and Ubuntu will face off at some point. | May 12 11:27 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/12/software-patents-eu-back-door/ - Software Patents Want to Enter Europe from the Back Door | May 12 11:28 |
| schestowitz | Apple is an issue | May 12 11:29 |
| schestowitz | If Microsoft goes down as a larger unisys we still have Apple to compete with | May 12 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Apple, unlike MS, has margins | May 12 11:29 |
| schestowitz | It sells hardware | May 12 11:30 |
| schestowitz | That's where the money is. Servers and hardware. | May 12 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Desktop O/Ses are like a freebie now | May 12 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Like mustard on a sandwich | May 12 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Q&A: Disconnecting file-sharers < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8044651.stm >. The BBC, as usual, plays ball for big media. | May 12 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Also OS X out performs Linux in a few places | May 12 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Taking out OS X is going to be harder than windows. | May 12 11:32 |
| schestowitz | tacone: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-12-007-35-NW-DT-UB nice one. Is it in Digg's FP yet? | May 12 11:32 |
| tacone | no, ~60 diggs | May 12 11:32 |
| tacone | well, you can help shouting to your digg friends, but i never make it to digg front page :( | May 12 11:32 |
| tacone | i sent it to linux today my self if you notice. they have been kind enough to publish it, that would bring me a fair share of traffic though. | May 12 11:33 |
| tacone | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Canonical_working_on_UbuntuOne_Ubuntu_sync_service/ | May 12 11:33 |
| tacone | i've been the first, many people read my article, but nobody linked back. | May 12 11:34 |
| schestowitz | Cairo Dock 2.0.0 is Here (Linux Dock Menu)! < http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/05/cairo-dock-200-is-here-linux-dock-menu.html > | May 12 11:36 |
| schestowitz | I don't shout | May 12 11:36 |
| schestowitz | It's a form of spamming | May 12 11:36 |
| tacone | fair enough :) | May 12 11:36 |
| schestowitz | pavs does this a lot | May 12 11:37 |
| schestowitz | Digg is messed up | May 12 11:37 |
| schestowitz | Hadoop should target C++/LLVM, not Java (because of watts) http://www.trendcaller.com/2009/05/hadoop-should-target-cllvm-not-java.html | May 12 11:41 |
| schestowitz | "Does Technorati *ever* work these days? Yesterday it said I had no links to my blog, today it's a blank Web page.... " | May 12 11:44 |
| tacone | it has glitches lately | May 12 11:45 |
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| tacone | mostly works, and better than google blog search by the way | May 12 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | Same thing said about Hadoop and Java also applies to .net | May 12 11:47 |
| schestowitz | WordPress appears to have dropped Technorati | May 12 11:47 |
| schestowitz | They use Google news in the Dashboard (by default anyway) | May 12 11:47 |
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| tacone | yes, and google ruined their blog search by including text from the whole page | May 12 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | We should find a path back to Technorati not that I track IBLs much | May 12 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Hi, liberfiasco | May 12 11:50 |
| schestowitz | liberfiasco vs libervisco | May 12 11:50 |
| liberfiasco | Hi | May 12 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | Open Mapping Considered Harmful < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/05/open-mapping-considered-harmful.html > | May 12 11:51 |
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| schestowitz | Is Bruce Perens joining the boycott firefox campaigners? "Bruce Perens makes two arguments against web ad blocking in an LWN thread. First, users should comply with a norm that a user of an ad-supported resource will view the ads." http://zgp.org/~dmarti/www/ad-blocking/ | May 12 11:52 |
| schestowitz | He shut down Technocrat | May 12 11:52 |
| tacone | working with microsoft is innovation: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/May-06.html | May 12 11:54 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yeah | May 12 11:55 |
| schestowitz | Innovating EEE | May 12 11:55 |
| schestowitz | He's arguing with me in USENET right now | May 12 11:55 |
| schestowitz | And joining the kids | May 12 11:55 |
| schestowitz | with the "poo poo head" remark | May 12 11:56 |
| schestowitz | A Business Model for a Better World - Ebook Draft < http://www.freemium.eu/freemium/business-model-world-ebook-draft/ > | May 12 11:56 |
| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/6cec640b7c4dec6f | May 12 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/1cf0aba9fcc0e526 | May 12 11:57 |
| schestowitz | Rising superpower: Campaign for .中国 (China) domain kicks off < http://shanghaiist.com/2009/05/12/campaign_for_china_domain_kicks_off.php > | May 12 11:58 |
| schestowitz | Look how quickly twitter is growing.. http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/twitter_passes_nyt_wsj_in_unique_visitors.php | May 12 12:03 |
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| schestowitz | Google responds to that latest energy FUD against which ignores other SEs: Energy and the Internet < http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/energy-and-internet.html > | May 12 12:08 |
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| oiaohm | And google still wants greener than what they are now. | May 12 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Well, to save money, obviously | May 12 12:12 |
| schestowitz | Not to save the environment | May 12 12:12 |
| schestowitz | Just economics disguised with PR | May 12 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Mixture of both. Bad environment don't do there staff any good so leading to less production. | May 12 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or latter miss treating the environment will come back and bite. | May 12 12:13 |
| schestowitz | U.S. soldier in Iraq shoots, kills comrades < http://www.wlky.com/news/19427307/detail.html > | May 12 12:14 |
| kentma | there was a calculation made recently showing that avatars on 2nd life have a greater CO2 footprint than many (real) Africans | May 12 12:14 |
| schestowitz | Probably | May 12 12:14 |
| schestowitz | I saw a presentation which says people in the west pollute 30 times more than in Africa, per person | May 12 12:15 |
| schestowitz | Not just consumption of energy (cars, showers, TV, etc.) | May 12 12:15 |
| MinceR | r4wr | May 12 12:15 |
| kentma | agreed. I know that my house could be significantly improved! | May 12 12:15 |
| schestowitz | Here is the source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFESMAU58 | May 12 12:15 |
| kentma | I just thought it was an interesting turning point when a virtual person used more power than a real one. | May 12 12:15 |
| schestowitz | kentma: to imporve houses costs energy too | May 12 12:16 |
| schestowitz | Toss and replace (disposal+creation) | May 12 12:16 |
| kentma | You need to take the long-term perspective on these things. | May 12 12:16 |
| kentma | For example, I have landrovers - it's a good idea because although you can buy a small car with better fuel consumption (I get about 30mpg), landrovers usually last around 30 years, so in terms of total energy and pollution, they are far better than several smaller cars which have to be built in the same lifetime. Sadly, that's not well understood by most people! | May 12 12:17 |
| kentma | Same thing with houses - you need sustainable gains. | May 12 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Nortel confirms fire sale < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/12/nortel_sale_split/ > | May 12 12:21 |
| schestowitz | That's one for BT to stay away from then. | May 12 12:22 |
| oiaohm | kentma: it depend on the small car. | May 12 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Like the old vw beetle was well bult has better fuel usage than a landrovers and you still see them running quite well. | May 12 12:23 |
| oiaohm | If the small car is designed to last it will out do the land rover. | May 12 12:23 |
| kentma | oiaohm: no, it won't. There just isn't enough metal on them. | May 12 12:23 |
| kentma | There are around 70% of landrovers ever made still on the road. For beetles? I don't know, but I doubt it's any better than about 0.1% | May 12 12:24 |
| oiaohm | old vm beetle was not what you call short of metal. | May 12 12:24 |
| oiaohm | beetle are also older. | May 12 12:24 |
| kentma | oiaohm: have you looked at them both? | May 12 12:24 |
| kentma | landrovers have ali bodywork, beetles don't - they rot. | May 12 12:24 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Gary flatfish Stewart can be taken to prison now: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/trolling-someone-online-bill-would-slap-you-with-jail-time.ars | May 12 12:25 |
| kentma | schestowitz: hey - fantastic idea :-) | May 12 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Inland where I am they don't rot. | May 12 12:25 |
| schestowitz | Just redo it | May 12 12:25 |
| kentma | oiaohm: perhaps not, but in most places they do. Anywhere where roads get salted, you get rot, anywhere humid, you get rot. | May 12 12:25 |
| schestowitz | The comparison is not fair, tiehrr | May 12 12:26 |
| kentma | I mean rust, of course :-) | May 12 12:26 |
| schestowitz | Don't compre cars made in the 80s from ones made in 2005 | May 12 12:26 |
| oiaohm | I have seen the older land rovers rust out due to the same problem. | May 12 12:26 |
| kentma | schestowitz: the beetle design is from the 1940s, as is the landrover. | May 12 12:26 |
| kentma | oiaohm: not the bodywork, because it's ali. | May 12 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Early ones did have ali. | May 12 12:26 |
| kentma | oiaohm: they all do - I have a nearly new one, it's ali. | May 12 12:27 |
| kentma | they've always been ali, and they stilll are. | May 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Not always. | May 12 12:27 |
| kentma | always... | May 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | First few generatons of them. | May 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | where not. | May 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Metal selection could have been done better on the bettles. | May 12 12:27 |
| kentma | oiaohm: series one landrover - the first, had ali bodywork. | May 12 12:28 |
| kentma | It was made from 1948 onwards. | May 12 12:28 |
| oiaohm | The basic chassie of a bettle these days can be got in pure aluiminum. Dune buggied based off them are 100 percent protecte from rust. | May 12 12:29 |
| kentma | oiaohm: don't misunderstand me, I rather like beetles, but they're just not built to anywhere near the same standard. If you make your own, of course, then you can change all that. | May 12 12:29 |
| kentma | sorry, they were... | May 12 12:29 |
| kentma | "The first prototype Land-Rovers (1947) were actually built on Jeep chassis. The bodywork was made of an aluminium alloy called Birmabright [1,2]. " | May 12 12:30 |
| kentma | quote from S1 history page. | May 12 12:31 |
| kentma | The reason, bizarrely, was a steel shortage in the UK after WW2 (have made all those tanks, planes, ships, bombs, bullets, guns, etc... :-) | May 12 12:31 |
| oiaohm | I was thinking the main chassis the bit you don't want rusting. | May 12 12:31 |
| oiaohm | It breaks you die basically. | May 12 12:32 |
| kentma | oiaohm: main chassis repairs are easy - bodyworks the hard bit. | May 12 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Depends if its a on road car or a bush basher. | May 12 12:32 |
| kentma | chasses on landrovers are made of RSJs... they're really a light truck, rather than a road car (like a beetle). | May 12 12:33 |
| kentma | There was a great part in my defender 110 county (a few years back) which explained how to replace the head gasket with prairie-grass in order to get home - hehe | May 12 12:34 |
| kentma | sorry, in the handbook, I mean. | May 12 12:34 |
| kentma | A good friend of mine had an ageing 1100 beetle in the 1980s - I used to get a lift to work in it most days. | May 12 12:35 |
| oiaohm | beetle chassic design one of the standard dune buggy chasses. It not what you call a weak design. | May 12 12:35 |
| kentma | it's a road-car, though. Landrovers were designed for off-road usage, it's a truck, not a car. There isn't any comparison. If you really want to see, try driving one into the other and see what's left... | May 12 12:36 |
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| oiaohm | Landrovers and dune buggies are better in different off road usage. | May 12 12:38 |
| oiaohm | If you are going hit something land rover. | May 12 12:38 |
| oiaohm | If you risking sinking in the dune buggies. | May 12 12:38 |
| kentma | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_Trophy | May 12 12:39 |
| kentma | Landrovers have been used in deserts for many years. | May 12 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Both are for off road usage. | May 12 12:39 |
| kentma | no... dune buggies are toys | May 12 12:39 |
| kentma | they're great fun, but they are toys. | May 12 12:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the most used programming language? | May 12 12:40 |
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| kentma | I've no idea... why don't you try a google search on keywords and see how many hits you get? | May 12 12:41 |
| oiaohm | kentma: Camel_Trophy is not the only hard race. its closed not non 4x4. Dakar is open to all classes. Dune buggies and releations do quite well. Moter cycles normally beat everything. Dunes and releations next 4x4 last. | May 12 12:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I am asking the people in here | May 12 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Its pure condtions you are going to be on sort out what one fit kentma. | May 12 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Now running threw a forost stage in a light weight dune buggy would be insanity. | May 12 12:45 |
| kentma | oiaohm: dakar is a nice pre-defined course - camel trophy changed each year, afairc, in particular, in order to get different terrain. | May 12 12:46 |
| oiaohm | dakar is not really pre-defined. | May 12 12:46 |
| kentma | dakar's a great race, but of those I seens parts of, bikes drop out with significant regularity. | May 12 12:47 |
| oiaohm | Its more defined by the path where the people are not going to end up dead. | May 12 12:47 |
| kentma | one camel requirement is that you carry all that you need... can't really see a beech buggy doing that... | May 12 12:47 |
| kentma | plus, you've got to cross france and spain... fun in the rain if you've no body on the car, or you're just in leathers. | May 12 12:49 |
| oiaohm | buggys are not required to be roof less. | May 12 12:49 |
| oiaohm | There are many different designs. They are low weight designs. | May 12 12:49 |
| kentma | anyway, it's been fun chatting, but I've a call I must get onto - see you all soon. | May 12 12:49 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: java | May 12 12:56 |
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| schestowitz | Report: FBI Mishandles Terror Watch List < http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/fbi-gets-f-in-handling-terror-watch-list-ig-finds/ > | May 12 12:57 |
| schestowitz | "According to Dell's Ubuntu page in recent months, the number of machines that Dell has offered in the UK with Ubuntu Linux instead of Microsoft Windows has dwindled from three (a netbook, laptop and desktop) to, apparently, none." http://www.h-online.com/open/Dell-reworks-sparse-Ubuntu-offerings--/news/113262 | May 12 12:57 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu (Jaunty) vs Windows (Vista) < http://creativephotons.blogspot.com/2009/05/ubuntu-jaunty-vs-windows-vista.html > Linux wins. | May 12 12:58 |
| schestowitz | A look at Linux in China: http://www.cibmagazine.com.cn/Features/Infotech.asp?id=917&an_open_world.html | May 12 12:58 |
| schestowitz | Good new reviews of GNU/Linux: http://celettu.wordpress.com/2009/05/11/linux-mint-7-gloria-rc-a-review/ - Linux Mint 7 (Gloria) RC: A Review - http://www.bitburners.com/articles/mandriva-20091-spring-shows-a-lot-of-promise/4421/ | May 12 12:59 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux still a success on sub-notebooks too: http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=business6_may12_2009 | May 12 12:59 |
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| Omar87 | Hi guys. | May 12 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Hi Omar87 | May 12 13:06 |
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| Omar87 | On my way home today, I had an argument with a colleague of mine who works for a security technologies company call "Iris Guard". | May 12 13:19 |
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| oiaohm | Should have been interesting what ws the argument over Omar87 | May 12 13:31 |
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| schestowitz | Hard times for Microsoft: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/12/microsoft-debt-tax-evasion/ (Microsoft Debt and Tax Evasion) | May 12 13:54 |
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| oiaohm | Going after google with anti trust is a really up hill battle. | May 12 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Most of google business pracs avoid the normal requirements for anti-trust. They don't do anything to directly block competition. They give away sections of code that let them do what they do. | May 12 13:57 |
| oiaohm | anti-trust person might quicky find themselves after microsoft because its a softer target. | May 12 13:58 |
| oiaohm | Problem she has is that anti-trust threats against google blocked google sharing its advertising market with yahoo and others. | May 12 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Very differnet nature of practices | May 12 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Same with In tel | May 12 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Intel bribes to exclude | May 12 14:13 |
| schestowitz | So does Microsoft | May 12 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft also dumps | May 12 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Also sabotages, bullies, AstroTurfs, etc. | May 12 14:14 |
| schestowitz | So each is unqiue | May 12 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Google=service; MS =sw; Inte;=hw | May 12 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Intel has also dumped. | May 12 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Google having an anti-trust investagation there is really nothing major to find. | May 12 14:15 |
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| oiaohm | Its just being far too good and unified competing. | May 12 14:16 |
| oiaohm | And has been blocked from allowing other parties in. | May 12 14:16 |
| Eruaran | hi all | May 12 14:17 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft checking for licensed MS-Office as part of Windows WGA backfired today | May 12 14:18 |
| Eruaran | We had a customer who's system we fixed up | May 12 14:18 |
| Eruaran | After doing updates it came up with the WGA logo saying his MS-Office wasn't licensed | May 12 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 12 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Good advocacy of Linux for the Vole | May 12 14:19 |
| Eruaran | I gave him a call | May 12 14:19 |
| Eruaran | I explained to him what was happening | May 12 14:19 |
| Eruaran | The customer said, "get rid of it" (he meant Office) | May 12 14:19 |
| Eruaran | He now has OpenOffice 3.1 | May 12 14:20 |
| Eruaran | MS-Office wasn't "unlicensed", it was a false positive. | May 12 14:20 |
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| Eruaran | Its from 2002 and he can't even remember where his disks and key are | May 12 14:20 |
| Eruaran | So he just said get rid of it | May 12 14:21 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft is now using WGA as a way of scaming more revenue out of people I think | May 12 14:22 |
| Eruaran | If it says Office is unlicensed there are no options to resolve it, Microsoft will only link you to their web page that tells you how to buy Office | May 12 14:22 |
| Eruaran | So, WGA is now basically scamware | May 12 14:23 |
| Eruaran | Our company might end up working on our own distro | May 12 14:27 |
| *Eruaran ponders the thought | May 12 14:27 | |
| Eruaran | It would be aimed at servicing Windows systems that wont boot | May 12 14:27 |
| Eruaran | live CD/usb key | May 12 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Did Microsoft Bribe Its Way Into Kicking GNU/Linux out of South African Schools? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/12/south-african-schools-windows/ > | May 12 14:28 |
| Eruaran | scripts to automate the drudgery of servicing Windows systems that wont boot | May 12 14:28 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: maybe scareware | May 12 14:29 |
| schestowitz | "You're a pirate" sort of scare | May 12 14:29 |
| Eruaran | I dunno about SA schools but getting Lenovo netbooks with Vista on them into Australian schools... man, you gotta be giving people kickbacks to get them to make decisions that are that horrible | May 12 14:29 |
| schestowitz | You can branch from a well-established distro | May 12 14:29 |
| schestowitz | Theme it and rename it | May 12 14:29 |
| schestowitz | NeoWin does this | May 12 14:29 |
| schestowitz | With Ubuntu, IIRC | May 12 14:29 |
| Eruaran | yes | May 12 14:29 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: there's an update on NSW | May 12 14:30 |
| Eruaran | it only needs to be simple, for servicing systems | May 12 14:30 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like rubbish | May 12 14:30 |
| Eruaran | we had one last Saturday | May 12 14:30 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/04/australia-south-wales-adobe-windows/ | May 12 14:30 |
| Eruaran | someone brought in a Lenovo with Vista | May 12 14:30 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux can be political | May 12 14:30 |
| Eruaran | My God... it was horrible | May 12 14:30 |
| schestowitz | As in, get rid of corruption | May 12 14:30 |
| schestowitz | People make deals based on kickbacks all the time | May 12 14:30 |
| schestowitz | "You sign this, I owe you one" | May 12 14:31 |
| schestowitz | GNU can't pay kickbacks | May 12 14:31 |
| schestowitz | Well.. | May 12 14:31 |
| schestowitz | I just enjoy exposing this corruption | May 12 14:31 |
| schestowitz | Make people familiar with it | May 12 14:31 |
| Eruaran | Turn on this little netbook and you're looking at a Vista startup thats about to take a half hour to boot up... all anyone heard was a technician saying, "AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!" | May 12 14:31 |
| schestowitz | At Microsoft, crime is a business parctice: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdf | May 12 14:31 |
| Eruaran | I dont beat around the bush when customers ask about Linux | May 12 14:33 |
| Eruaran | Every week i get asked if linux is any good | May 12 14:33 |
| Eruaran | I tells them what I think :) | May 12 14:34 |
| Eruaran | I had an interesting conversation with a lawyer the other day | May 12 14:34 |
| schestowitz | The Gralla shill is busy | May 12 14:34 |
| Eruaran | It was about M$ Office | May 12 14:34 |
| schestowitz | They seed anti-Linux messages | May 12 14:34 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: I commented on his most recent article | May 12 14:34 |
| schestowitz | Then all the MS lackeys jump up and down for dollars | May 12 14:34 |
| schestowitz | They link to the seeded FUD with hostile headlines | May 12 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Just like in NPD | May 12 14:35 |
| Eruaran | mine is the comment that mentions Novell, Lenovo and Microsoft paid FUD orgies ;) | May 12 14:35 |
| schestowitz | This time it's some chap from Lenovo, whose management now has MS execs | May 12 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: don't comment on em | May 12 14:35 |
| schestowitz | It feeds those trolls | May 12 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Just map the trolls | May 12 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Like clearing a minefield | May 12 14:35 |
| Eruaran | I can't help it *blush* | May 12 14:35 |
| Eruaran | ;P | May 12 14:35 |
| Eruaran | I basically make fun of them | May 12 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Gralla must be going broke | May 12 14:36 |
| schestowitz | IDG fires massively | May 12 14:36 |
| schestowitz | And he only has Windows books which he tries flogging | May 12 14:36 |
| Eruaran | hehe | May 12 14:36 |
| schestowitz | He find a new hobby in Enderle-wannabeism | May 12 14:36 |
| Eruaran | lol | May 12 14:37 |
| Eruaran | have a look at my comment | May 12 14:37 |
| Eruaran | its meant for laughs | May 12 14:37 |
| schestowitz | I can't open that page | May 12 14:37 |
| schestowitz | I'd get annoyed just glancing at his mug | May 12 14:37 |
| Eruaran | heheh | May 12 14:38 |
| schestowitz | I recognise his FUD from the headline | May 12 14:38 |
| Eruaran | I didnt' realise it was him till i opened the page | May 12 14:38 |
| Eruaran | when I saw his pic I thought, "oh, its only Preston Gralla" | May 12 14:38 |
| schestowitz | I see some "<Linux SUX> - ComputerWorld" headline in my RSS reader and before I click on it I say to myself, "Oh! That must be gralla | May 12 14:38 |
| schestowitz | And then I click | May 12 14:39 |
| Eruaran | look at the comments | May 12 14:39 |
| schestowitz | Cause I want to see that I'm right | May 12 14:39 |
| Eruaran | he's increasingly the butt of jokes now | May 12 14:39 |
| schestowitz | He attacks Google too | May 12 14:39 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is very afraid of Google and Linux | May 12 14:39 |
| Eruaran | not a lot of annoyed people, mostly people saying what an ass he is | May 12 14:39 |
| schestowitz | It pulled a "Get the facts" on sub-notebooks | May 12 14:39 |
| Eruaran | I thought Microsoft's response to the EC was hilarious | May 12 14:40 |
| Eruaran | It was like, "but... but... everyone will just use GOOGLE !" | May 12 14:40 |
| Eruaran | big bad goodle | May 12 14:40 |
| Eruaran | err | May 12 14:40 |
| Eruaran | May 12 14:40 | |
| Eruaran | freudian slip ? | May 12 14:40 |
| schestowitz | Prrrrrrrrrrrrreeston GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRala | May 12 14:42 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: yes, deflecting the issue | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | "Let's all talk about Google" | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | "We'll get around to MS later" | May 12 14:43 |
| Eruaran | InformationWeek reporting that MS hopes to release Vista7 in August | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: trainwreck | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | The sooner, the better | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | They bribed many reporters | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Like with Vista | May 12 14:43 |
| MinceR | m$ wishes they released it 5 years ago ;) | May 12 14:43 |
| Eruaran | I smell swiss cheese | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | When ma and pa try it on their Celron it'll be SO funny | May 12 14:43 |
| schestowitz | "But my Quicken isn't compatible...... It's SOOOOOOOO slow... my printer doesn't work... etc." | May 12 14:44 |
| iwmw | the earlier they release vista7, the more negative feedbacks about bsods incoming | May 12 14:44 |
| schestowitz | When it's out it's hard to control what people say | May 12 14:44 |
| schestowitz | It's easy when you can bribe bloggers with a prealpha-loaded laptop | May 12 14:44 |
| Eruaran | We are winning Linux users | May 12 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Business already ignore Vista7, which is good | May 12 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is "Freezing the market now," to quote... Microsoft | May 12 14:45 |
| iwmw | they could as well ignore vista | May 12 14:45 |
| Eruaran | Had a guy order some stuff last week which he picked up today... He came to us because we could advise on what hardware will work well with Linux (he wanted a USB tv tuner etc) | May 12 14:46 |
| Eruaran | Freezing the market doesn't work when your competition is moving faster than you, and its Free. | May 12 14:46 |
| The terror watch lists are a horrible scam. | May 12 14:47 | |
| Eruaran | We are cultivating out Linux user base | May 12 14:47 |
| Eruaran | Its the future | May 12 14:47 |
| If someone is suspected of committing a crime they should be arrested. | May 12 14:47 | |
| Eruaran | Our competitors wont give LInux users the time of day | May 12 14:47 |
| schestowitz | It would probably be worse had Vista 7 been released in 2011 | May 12 14:48 |
| There is a normal process for that which protects people's rights | May 12 14:48 | |
| schestowitz | It would then have more time for baking | May 12 14:48 |
| schestowitz | They rush it out | May 12 14:48 |
| Eruaran | Linux customers are OUR customers, becuase our competitors are morons. | May 12 14:48 |
| schestowitz | So lots of bugs.. like Vista | May 12 14:48 |
| oiaohm | twitter: its sometimes a little hard to prove guilt straight up. | May 12 14:48 |
| the terror watch lists violates people's rights without reasonable proof | May 12 14:48 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: if you just put all the suspected people in jail you would return to the war time camps of the past. | May 12 14:49 |
| it is not very hard to get a warrant for arrest - you go to a grand jury and provide reasonable proof. | May 12 14:49 | |
| oiaohm | Were people were put in there purely based on race. | May 12 14:49 |
| schestowitz | twitter: they can label you a "bad guy", put surveillance equipment in your house while you're out and even take you (abduct you) to prison or torture. | May 12 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Or something else minor. | May 12 14:49 |
| schestowitz | They DON"T need court approval | May 12 14:49 |
| schestowitz | It's dangerous | May 12 14:49 |
| that's exactly my point. | May 12 14:49 | |
| oiaohm | Surveillance is a needed evil. | May 12 14:49 |
| oiaohm | To sort out people who should and should not go to jail. | May 12 14:49 |
| terror watch lists are arbitrary | May 12 14:50 | |
| and unchecked. | May 12 14:50 | |
| The FBI has used them for political purposes already, as has the UK. | May 12 14:50 | |
| oiaohm | I do agree there should be oversite to the effectiveness of targets choosen. | May 12 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Watching people with no gulit at all is a waste of resources. | May 12 14:50 |
| the terror watch lists should be eliminated | May 12 14:50 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: here in the UK, Iceland citizens were "terrorists" | May 12 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Greenpeace activists too | May 12 14:51 |
| schestowitz | Peaceful one | May 12 14:51 |
| schestowitz | *nes | May 12 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Watch lists have there places. | May 12 14:51 |
| oiaohm | But they should be reducing. | May 12 14:51 |
| the TSC might be useful for catching people on real wanted lists, but there were already mechanisms for that which worked. | May 12 14:51 | |
| oiaohm | As people are ticked off. | May 12 14:51 |
| oiaohm | And not gulity or arressed for being guility. | May 12 14:51 |
| Let me dig up a couple of links to abuse | May 12 14:51 | |
| oiaohm | I am taking a different line twitter. Watch list is a need evil at times. But oversite over watch list usage is required. | May 12 14:52 |
| schestowitz | YEs | May 12 14:52 |
| schestowitz | Also laws that require trials | May 12 14:53 |
| schestowitz | Not "released without charges" | May 12 14:53 |
| schestowitz | Which means harassment, abuse or death of the innocent | May 12 14:53 |
| schestowitz | They are too lazy to have protections | May 12 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Some watchlists in some countries have a max time that you can be on one for. | May 12 14:53 |
| Eruaran | We are now promoting dual booting Linux to Windows users | May 12 14:53 |
| Eruaran | Windows won't boot ? No problem ! | May 12 14:54 |
| schestowitz | All in a rush, all in urgency. "OMG!! The war on terror, the depression, the deadlines, those scary child-molesting Tabliban... etc etc" | May 12 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Any excuse to give power to elite groups | May 12 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Including the president | May 12 14:54 |
| oiaohm | USA style watch list without required oversites I don't agree with. | May 12 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: dual boot? HERESY! | May 12 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Australian and NZ style I have no issue with. | May 12 14:55 |
| schestowitz | On you go (on the watchlist) | May 12 14:55 |
| Eruaran | :p | May 12 14:55 |
| schestowitz | For promoting "commie oS" | May 12 14:55 |
| Eruaran | lol | May 12 14:55 |
| Eruaran | I paint a scenario where the world is about to end becuase you can't boot Windows and retrieve that important document | May 12 14:55 |
| oiaohm | There is a limited ammount of time under Australian and NZ to build up at least some evidence to prove that person must stay on watch list or person has to be removed. | May 12 14:55 |
| Eruaran | Then I say, but if you had a dual boot... | May 12 14:56 |
| oiaohm | Dual boot can cure a lot of problems. | May 12 14:56 |
| schestowitz | XOLive CDs being distributed in Germany in LOG-IN newspaper [PDF] < http://log-in-verlag.de/PDF-Dateien/LOG_IN_156_PUB.pdf > | May 12 14:56 |
| Eruaran | indeed | May 12 14:56 |
| it will take a while longer to dig up links and I have to run to work. I'll get them when I get back. | May 12 14:56 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: I know there has been abuse in the USA system. The require oversite is not there. | May 12 14:57 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm: it makes servicing easier and quicker for us as well | May 12 14:57 |
| but basically, these lists amount to arbitrary accusations with real punishment - a violation of the US constitution. | May 12 14:57 | |
| oiaohm | If watch lists are run right they are not a major problem. USA ones are not. | May 12 14:58 |
| They have been used against activists, journalists and others. | May 12 14:58 | |
| schestowitz | Re: " Phony fixes will automatically install in test of Windows Update" [PJ: !? Whose computer is it, anyway? If they want to use my equipment to test their software, I think they might want to ask me and then pay me.] | May 12 14:58 |
| oiaohm | Same here but requirement to find evidence that will hold up in a court of law sees those people removed from the lists in time twitter | May 12 14:58 |
| schestowitz | So when you get RC you become a tester | May 12 14:58 |
| they are punishment without trial, very unAmerican. | May 12 14:58 | |
| schestowitz | They can mess about with your PC | May 12 14:58 |
| Eruaran | I'm thinking of a dual boot that doesn't even mention Linux... you have a boot menu that goes like this: 1. Microsoft Windows 2. Click here if you can't use your computer ;) | May 12 14:58 |
| bbl | May 12 14:59 | |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | May 12 14:59 | |
| oiaohm | Fun part is Linux can backup stuffed NTFS partitions when windows refuses to read them. | May 12 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: like Presto/Splashtop? | May 12 14:59 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: no ! | May 12 14:59 |
| schestowitz | BeOS had a curious case | May 12 14:59 |
| schestowitz | They tried to dual-boot with WIndow | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | *dows | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft screwed them over | May 12 15:00 |
| Eruaran | yeh | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Got sued | May 12 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Prestro is the same class in boot loader. | May 12 15:00 |
| Eruaran | except that you couldn't boot BeOS | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | The cost would be the same | May 12 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Just not a complete OS. | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Think about it | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Why wouldn't Dell ship a PC with 2 OSes? | May 12 15:00 |
| Eruaran | We'd have a complete OS | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't cost more | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Those who don't want Linux will then delete the partition | May 12 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Dell does ship some laptops duel. | May 12 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Not enough | May 12 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Arm processor runnign Linux x86 running windows. | May 12 15:01 |
| oiaohm | I personally like that better. | May 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Here in the Uk they stopped advertising Ubuntu at Dell | May 12 15:01 |
| Eruaran | A KDE distro with a folderview pointing to the customers Documents & Settings on their Windows partition | May 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | They never really advertised it | May 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | But they make it unavilable now | May 12 15:01 |
| oiaohm | I would love a dual arm x86 motherboard. | May 12 15:01 |
| Eruaran | dual arm x86 ? | May 12 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Just for web surfing and the like the arm would be good enough. | May 12 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Like, well... if you don't advertise it and hide it deep inside the site, blame yourself for low demand | May 12 15:01 |
| Eruaran | oh you mean ARM and x86 ? | May 12 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | May 12 15:01 |
| Eruaran | is that available ? | May 12 15:02 |
| oiaohm | Nop. | May 12 15:02 |
| oiaohm | Reason why I would love one and don't have one. | May 12 15:02 |
| Eruaran | I'm thinking of promoting Linux in 'round about' ways | May 12 15:02 |
| Eruaran | pointing to benefits/advantages | May 12 15:02 |
| oiaohm | I guess openoffice goes out on your machines. | May 12 15:03 |
| Eruaran | yes | May 12 15:03 |
| *zer0c00l_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 12 15:03 | |
| Eruaran | Some people still buy MS Office | May 12 15:03 |
| Eruaran | But they had a choice | May 12 15:03 |
| oiaohm | I hope koffice will be on windows soon. | May 12 15:03 |
| oiaohm | It fills a lot of the feature gaps in openoffice. | May 12 15:03 |
| Eruaran | I've been wondering how Kexi is going | May 12 15:03 |
| Eruaran | don't hear much | May 12 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Kexi 99 euro for windows older version. | May 12 15:04 |
| Eruaran | Kexi 2 | May 12 15:04 |
| oiaohm | RC 1 | May 12 15:04 |
| Eruaran | oh | May 12 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Not ready for deployment yet. | May 12 15:04 |
| Eruaran | I have a friend who is partners in a company that does Access based software | May 12 15:05 |
| Eruaran | One of their concerns is their dependency on Access | May 12 15:05 |
| Eruaran | Short / medium term things look good for them | May 12 15:06 |
| Eruaran | But they're thinking of long term | May 12 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Opps | May 12 15:06 |
| Eruaran | Don't want proprietary dependencies | May 12 15:06 |
| oiaohm | kexi 2 was not up to standard for koffice 2 rc1 | May 12 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Should appear before final release. | May 12 15:06 |
| Eruaran | yes | May 12 15:06 |
| Eruaran | I have koffice 2 RC1 | May 12 15:06 |
| Eruaran | It didn't come with Kexi | May 12 15:07 |
| Eruaran | Its still very slow starting up | May 12 15:07 |
| iwmw | kde4 shouldn't be fast | May 12 15:08 |
| Eruaran | I'll actually be glad when Vista 7 comes out I think | May 12 15:08 |
| iwmw | they are always running for features and barely implement them | May 12 15:08 |
| Eruaran | KDE4 is fast | May 12 15:08 |
| oiaohm | KPlato and krita are two key ones I was after. | May 12 15:08 |
| iwmw | while no optimisation at all | May 12 15:09 |
| Eruaran | KOffice is fast when its running... its just slow starting up for some reason | May 12 15:09 |
| oiaohm | iwmw: it also depends on complier. | May 12 15:09 |
| MinceR | (offtopic) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=661374 | May 12 15:09 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm: krita is looking good | May 12 15:09 |
| oiaohm | kplato to replace MS project. | May 12 15:10 |
| oiaohm | is something I find important. | May 12 15:10 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: "It still dont work." LOL | May 12 15:10 |
| schestowitz | New Pattern Found in Prime Numbers < http://www.physorg.com/news160994102.html > | May 12 15:11 |
| iwmw | oiaohm: optimisation is about different algorithms, no just compiler-related optimisations | May 12 15:11 |
| iwmw | you can solve some problem in interpreted and inefficient basic much better than another will do it with assembler and it will work plenty of time faster | May 12 15:12 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: like "doctor, doctor, I have a problem....... it still hurts" | May 12 15:12 |
| schestowitz | bbl | May 12 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Gcc is quite good at solving algorithms out as long as algorithem is all in 1 source file. | May 12 15:13 |
| oiaohm | llvm is great at solving algorithems out application wide. | May 12 15:14 |
| iwmw | gcc won't replace bubble-sort with quicksort | May 12 15:14 |
| oiaohm | I would not be 100 percent sure on that I would have to check that against new extentions. | May 12 15:15 |
| oiaohm | That are doing loop base optimisations. | May 12 15:15 |
| MinceR | will llvm replace bubblesort with quicksort? | May 12 15:15 |
| iwmw | oiaohm: loop-based optimisations are quite different | May 12 15:15 |
| iwmw | there are plenty ways to optimise actually and it can't be just easily solved by some software optimizer of commonly used dumbosity | May 12 15:17 |
| iwmw | in some cases you will have to allow the optimizer to use all the available ram instead of cpu to solve problem plenty of ram faster <--- not an option actually | May 12 15:18 |
| iwmw | 'cause you will end with unpredictably behaving code | May 12 15:18 |
| oiaohm | http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Graphite Its this new bit. I have not been threw its limits of it solving and alterations. | May 12 15:19 |
| iwmw | i'm pretty sure it does nothing about algorithm alteration | May 12 15:22 |
| iwmw | it only makes it cpu resources usage efficient | May 12 15:22 |
| oiaohm | That is my problem. | May 12 15:25 |
| iwmw | it's everybodys problem | May 12 15:25 |
| oiaohm | I am not 100 percent sure of its total effects. | May 12 15:25 |
| iwmw | noone optimises everything to the max, just critical parts of code | May 12 15:25 |
| iwmw | and it takes much time actually | May 12 15:26 |
| iwmw | no, llvm doesn't replaces algorithms too, only with profile-driven optimisations may be | May 12 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Ok bubble sort could end up as a merge sort with loop optmisations. | May 12 15:34 |
| oiaohm | Alterations to multi thread. | May 12 15:35 |
| oiaohm | I had quicksort and merge sort mixed up in head. | May 12 15:35 |
| iwmw | no it won't | May 12 15:36 |
| iwmw | 'cause it wants additional ram | May 12 15:38 |
| oiaohm | multi threading does not reduce ram usage. | May 12 15:39 |
| iwmw | yup, but imagine you've got 512mb to sort | May 12 15:40 |
| iwmw | how the f compilers knows how much you're gonna sort | May 12 15:40 |
| oiaohm | Reason why You have override flag to stop something from being multithreaded. | May 12 15:40 |
| iwmw | you can't multi-thread a bubble-sort | May 12 15:41 |
| iwmw | leaving it as bubble-sort actually | May 12 15:42 |
| oiaohm | Acultally you can when you do loop optimisations working out where it can be cut up into different threads. | May 12 15:42 |
| iwmw | compiler will have to have semantics analysis | May 12 15:42 |
| iwmw | oiaohm: it places in different threads code that doesn't interfer with each other | May 12 15:43 |
| iwmw | or suspected time until merging results will reduce due to threading | May 12 15:43 |
| iwmw | it doesn't do miracles | May 12 15:44 |
| oiaohm | Only reason wny bubble-sort can end up as merge sort is they are releations in design. | May 12 15:45 |
| iwmw | so unless compilers are about semantics optimisation | May 12 15:45 |
| iwmw | they don't alter algorithms in common | May 12 15:45 |
| iwmw | oiaohm: how do you imagine that? | May 12 15:46 |
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| oiaohm | Its 1am and I am mixing up my sorts. | May 12 15:49 |
| oiaohm | I remember seeing one go threw loop optmisation end end up as the other. | May 12 15:49 |
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| iwmw | gtg home | May 12 15:53 |
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| schestowitz | first time that I see sjvn in Reuters, which buys from IDG now: http://www.reuters.com/article/idgSmallBusiness/idUS159359732920090511 | May 12 17:39 |
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| schestowitz | Linus in Forbes (and pigs fly): Migrating To Linux--Safely http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/11/windows-linux-software-entrepreneurs-technology-bmighty.html | May 12 17:44 |
| schestowitz | New York Times -- Just Like Baseball -- Dumps Microsoft Silver Lie http://technologizer.com/2009/05/12/timesreader/ | May 12 17:50 |
| schestowitz | Some really valuable features will come in Firefox 3.5 (June): http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7326/ http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/137671 | May 12 17:54 |
| kentma | It's funny that the business world is just waking up to the greatest technological revolution since the invention of electronic valves. | May 12 18:00 |
| schestowitz | linux netbooks: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137291/verizon-hp-netbook-launch-soon | May 12 18:01 |
| kentma | referring to the forbes thing, was I. | May 12 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | May 12 18:01 |
| schestowitz | they imported | May 12 18:01 |
| schestowitz | BMighty | May 12 18:01 |
| kentma | Netbooks are on the verge of transforming computing for normal people. Oddly, they're the "mobile appliance" I was talking about a couple of years ago, when I was saying that the desktop is dead. | May 12 18:02 |
| kentma | BMighty? | May 12 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Linux is a dirty word at Forbes | May 12 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Unless it's RHT ($$) | May 12 18:02 |
| schestowitz | kentma: exactly | May 12 18:03 |
| schestowitz | you said it | May 12 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Even advocates laughed | May 12 18:03 |
| schestowitz | People don't need MSO | May 12 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Apple, Dell and HP owners sue Nvidia http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137286/apple-dell-hp-owners-sue-nvidia | May 12 18:04 |
| kentma | People don't like change, though, even "technology advocates" can be very attached to their own space. | May 12 18:04 |
| kentma | I know you don't like mobiles, but have you tried an Android phone? I tried one - totally excellent! | May 12 18:04 |
| schestowitz | "TROUBLED NETWORK KIT MAKER Nortel posted a half billion dollar first quarter loss claiming that phone companies and other telecom equipment buyers stopped buying its gear during the economic slowdown." --INQ | May 12 18:05 |
| schestowitz | A friends has one | May 12 18:06 |
| schestowitz | 900% jump expected | May 12 18:06 |
| *schestowitz eats, can''t type much | May 12 18:06 | |
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| schestowitz | NEC records huge loss http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137292/nec-records-huge-loss | May 12 18:07 |
| schestowitz | huge company | May 12 18:07 |
| schestowitz | "NEC HAS ANNOUNCED an operating loss of $3.05 billion for the year to March due to the global economic downturn." | May 12 18:07 |
| Eruaran | woah | May 12 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | Obituary: Anthony Rumble - Linux pioneer and enthusiast http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,2000630136b,00.htm | May 12 18:12 |
| kentma | wow, $3bn is a vast sum - one could almost imagine that they were a bank. Hmm, did they have a merchant banking arm at all? perhaps staffed by people who thought that they were *really* clever? did they think that they could manage risk by selling it on? | May 12 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Advertisers hate this guy: Adblock Plus Maker Proposes Letting Publishers Plead For Revenue < http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/ebusiness/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217400274 > | May 12 18:18 |
| schestowitz | kentma: I think they just fired loads of people. I can recall from early in the year | May 12 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Screenshots of New Android 1.5 (Cupcake) < http://opencomputer.net/2009/05/09/new-android-15-cupcake/ > | May 12 18:20 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat (RHT) Higher After Barron's Kicks-Up Takeover Talk Again < http://www.streetinsider.com/Insiders+Blog/Red+Hat+(RHT)+Higher+After+Barrons+Kicks-Up+Takeover+Talk+Again/4637420.html > | May 12 18:26 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft isn't happy about what I write. Boo Hoo.. http://blogs.technet.com/gray_knowlton/archive/2009/05/11/clearing-up-a-few-matters-with-respect-to-odf-and-sp2.aspx | May 12 18:32 |
| zoobab01 | aspx | May 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | May 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | They try to individualise the debate and pretent that ODF stance is a matter of "company", not decision makers. Well companies <em>are</em> people. It's as simple as that. Peripheral people like shareholders count too. | May 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | See how he also quotes Marbux and shums | May 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Chums | May 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | And Alex Brown, Jeliffe[sic]... | May 12 18:35 |
| bgtr4 | omg... aspx | May 12 18:41 |
| bgtr4 | it sounds like offention to this channel | May 12 18:41 |
| bgtr4 | but only when i'm drunk | May 12 18:42 |
| bgtr4 | when i'm sober... i just don't care about m$ | May 12 18:42 |
| bgtr4 | but when i'm drunk... i'm just a bit (like 1%) not enough to become wolverine and destroy all the m$ wherever it is | May 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Not the opposite? | May 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | College Threatens Students Who Use College Initials In Private Email Addresses < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090511/0147184832.shtml > | May 12 18:43 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, it's just that i talk here mostly drunk... not when i talk at work though | May 12 18:44 |
| bgtr4 | freenode is for drunk mostly | May 12 18:44 |
| bgtr4 | i won't even tell why | May 12 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Aretha Franklin Wants Royalties For That Hat She Wore... < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090511/0123464831.shtml > | May 12 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 12 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Vodka? | May 12 18:45 |
| bgtr4 | i told already | May 12 18:45 |
| bgtr4 | may be not in this channel | May 12 18:45 |
| bgtr4 | that i dislike vodka | May 12 18:45 |
| bgtr4 | pretty much | May 12 18:45 |
| *bgtr4 likes gin and beer | May 12 18:45 | |
| bgtr4 | in plenty | May 12 18:45 |
| bgtr4 | i don't even like wine that much as gin | May 12 18:46 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft insists debt issue not a prelude to SAP bid < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/12/microsoft_not_buying_sap_debt_offering/ > Maybe they just have no money. | May 12 18:47 |
| bgtr4 | m$ is not buying anything until it releases faulty v7 in summer | May 12 18:48 |
| bgtr4 | or by the end of the year | May 12 18:48 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause from what i read on boycottnovell and other sites... m$ is failing | May 12 18:48 |
| bgtr4 | pretty much hard | May 12 18:49 |
| bgtr4 | i talk here when drunk only because i can write english more good than while i'm sober | May 12 18:49 |
| bgtr4 | gin+beer at least make me think | May 12 18:50 |
| bgtr4 | when part of me doesn't wanna and the other one understand that thinking is better XD | May 12 18:50 |
| bgtr4 | that's why i'm always drunk | May 12 18:50 |
| bgtr4 | kinda controlled schizophrenia XD | May 12 18:51 |
| bgtr4 | that makes it normal state of mind | May 12 18:51 |
| schestowitz | The market waits for low-cost ARM netbooks? http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/12/q1_chips_sales_idc/ Q1 chip sales plunge reveals slowing demand for netbooks | May 12 18:52 |
| bgtr4 | arm netbooks? andoids? | May 12 18:52 |
| bgtr4 | androids | May 12 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 12 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Android=trademark violation :-) | May 12 18:52 |
| bgtr4 | mkay | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Never mind if it's in the English dictiuonary | May 12 18:53 |
| bgtr4 | vista7 wants to be arm compatible | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | You can't even speak anymore | May 12 18:53 |
| bgtr4 | i know pretty much of english dictionary | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Photo Shop too is now a trademark | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Ubvuntu=African words | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Don't use it | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | You'll get C&D from Canonical | May 12 18:53 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz? | May 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | If you have a red hat, burn it | May 12 18:53 |
| bgtr4 | mkay... i better burn m$blowout | May 12 18:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/12/scientology_ddos_attack_plea/ (US teen pleads guilty over Scientology DDoS attacks) | May 12 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Blowback | May 12 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Like the CIA calls it | May 12 18:55 |
| bgtr4 | scientology ddos attacks??? XD | May 12 18:55 |
| schestowitz | When the 'enemy' retaliates for imperialism | May 12 18:55 |
| bgtr4 | cia sucks | May 12 18:55 |
| schestowitz | "we're gonna get some blowback" | May 12 18:55 |
| bgtr4 | i count english for functional language | May 12 18:55 |
| schestowitz | understand(me); | May 12 18:55 |
| bgtr4 | so i just express myself via logics when i'm drunk | May 12 18:56 |
| bgtr4 | it makes my english pretty tolerable | May 12 18:56 |
| schestowitz | This is not good: "Overall, Mac OS X 10.5.6 already outpaces Ubuntu 9.04 when it comes to many respects of the desktop and server performance. With the introduction of Mac OS X 10.6.0 "Snow Leopard" in a few months, the Apple gains will likely widen" http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_jaunty_osx&num=12 | May 12 18:57 |
| bgtr4 | even though i can write without mistakes in english if i only wanted to | May 12 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Is Fedora better a performant | May 12 18:57 |
| bgtr4 | nope | May 12 18:57 |
| bgtr4 | fedora is the edge | May 12 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, proofreading is an exercise in patience | May 12 18:57 |
| bgtr4 | without the edge we will live in plenty of bugs | May 12 18:58 |
| bgtr4 | it's quite good that fedora guys and plenty of others report them | May 12 18:58 |
| bgtr4 | we all just choose different sides of the blade of linux | May 12 18:59 |
| schestowitz | brb | May 12 19:00 |
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| bgtr4 | we could all just think that linux is a blade that's crossing proprietary way of making oses | May 12 19:12 |
| bgtr4 | and it | May 12 19:12 |
| bgtr4 | 's rather good. 'cause it really does | May 12 19:12 |
| bgtr4 | and we see that it's even commercial market share is growing | May 12 19:13 |
| bgtr4 | and we all know that there's freedom marketshare | May 12 19:14 |
| trmanco | my router went foobar today ... | May 12 19:15 |
| trmanco | grrr | May 12 19:15 |
| bgtr4 | that always is going to be separated by proprietary apps and platforms and stuff... but it still survives and even absurbs it | May 12 19:15 |
| trmanco | everthing working ok now | May 12 19:15 |
| bgtr4 | just like that ^ | May 12 19:16 |
| bgtr4 | (absurbs it) in a free way | May 12 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Did you trying barfooing it? | May 12 19:21 |
| *schestowitz bards | May 12 19:21 | |
| schestowitz | I'll just post to COLA early today, I think. Colleague at work needs help.. | May 12 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Fresh vs. rotten ext3 < http://patrick-nagel.net/blog/archives/125 > | May 12 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Hackers cry @ The X Window innovation: welcome to the new Xorg < http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/the_new_xorg_features > | May 12 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Lots of good Linux news today. Lots to laugh at Microsoft for. W00t. | May 12 19:23 |
| schestowitz | *chuckles* "The Wi-Fi software switch was so damned annoying that it was actually one of the biggest factors in the decision to ditch Vista on this particular machine. Under Ubuntu I was able to get Wi-Fi working automatically on each boot, with no user intervention necessary, as I'll explain in Part Two of this series." http://www.pcworld.com/article/164721/switching_dad_linux.html | May 12 19:24 |
| trmanco | barfooing? | May 12 19:27 |
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| *conley (n=ibcliffo@cowcreamer.cs.vt.edu) has joined #boycottnovell | May 12 19:32 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: undoing the foobar | May 12 19:36 |
| schestowitz | barf-oooooing | May 12 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Duke Nukem material released < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137274/duke-nukem-material-released > | May 12 19:36 |
| bgtr4 | 3rd? | May 12 19:36 |
| bgtr4 | or was it 2nd... | May 12 19:36 |
| bgtr4 | i almost didn't play it really | May 12 19:36 |
| trmanco | I did that, sort of | May 12 19:36 |
| bgtr4 | even though i'm capable of shooting the head off of every mob | May 12 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Sweet nostalgia: Remembering Apogee & 3D Realms < http://techgage.com/article/remembering_apogee_3d_realms > | May 12 19:37 |
| bgtr4 | in the game | May 12 19:37 |
| bgtr4 | lol, i remember almost every of apogee game | May 12 19:37 |
| schestowitz | 2nd | May 12 19:37 |
| bgtr4 | is duke apogee? | May 12 19:37 |
| schestowitz | This one looks interesting: GloobusPreview - Quick Look For Ubuntu Jaunty! < http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/05/gloobuspreview-quick-look-for-ubuntu.html > | May 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: Apogee yeah | May 12 19:38 |
| bgtr4 | i never even thought of that... 'cause i had 80286 when others had 486 dx2 | May 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | I loved that game | May 12 19:38 |
| bgtr4 | hm... | May 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | I think there was also Duke 2 | May 12 19:38 |
| bgtr4 | no | May 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Pogo sticks and all.. | May 12 19:39 |
| schestowitz | Let's check | May 12 19:39 |
| bgtr4 | it's most likely ported to opengl | May 12 19:39 |
| bgtr4 | like quake1 | May 12 19:39 |
| bgtr4 | that i loved | May 12 19:39 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=duke&ns0=1&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=Search&fulltext=Search | May 12 19:39 |
| *schestowitz can't be bothered to check ;-) | May 12 19:39 | |
| bgtr4 | and i knew tricks from speedruns | May 12 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla starts a magazine! :-D http://www.spreadfirefox.com/node/4128 | May 12 19:40 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause i played quake mega team fortress before i actually played quake at my compy | May 12 19:40 |
| schestowitz | "Compy" | May 12 19:41 |
| bgtr4 | yup | May 12 19:41 |
| schestowitz | What are we, 10 y-o again? | May 12 19:41 |
| bgtr4 | yup | May 12 19:41 |
| bgtr4 | at least i'm | May 12 19:41 |
| bgtr4 | i'm 18 | May 12 19:41 |
| bgtr4 | and i can do what i want | May 12 19:41 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 12 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Even rum and coke | May 12 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Here in the UK they won't sell biooze for under 21s | May 12 19:41 |
| bgtr4 | Eighteen | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | I just don't know what I want | May 12 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Though the legal age ain't the same as in the US (where people ignore this law anyway) | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | Eighteen | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | I gotta get away | May 12 19:42 |
| schestowitz | "Gotta get away" | May 12 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Let me find that song | May 12 19:42 |
| schestowitz | 2pac | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | I gotta get out of this place | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | I'll go runnin in outer | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | this place | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | but the second verse is about meh | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | I got a | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | baby's brain and an old man's heart | May 12 19:42 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KqWZ2pbnmI | May 12 19:42 |
| bgtr4 | Took eighteen years to get this far | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | Don't always know what I'm talkin' about | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | Feels like I'm livin in the middle of doubt | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | Cause I'm | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | (CHORUS) | May 12 19:43 |
| schestowitz | I loved that song when I was like 16 | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | 18! | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | it's not about the age | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | you don't even imagine what i listen to | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | it's not the kind of music | May 12 19:43 |
| bgtr4 | that you will ever kome inta | May 12 19:44 |
| bgtr4 | and it's not what u kan imagine | May 12 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla Brings Webapps to the Desktop, Challenges AIR, Silverlight < http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Mozilla_Brings_Webapps_to_the_Desktop__Challenges_AIR__Silverlight > | May 12 19:44 |
| bgtr4 | but i can tell ya it in private | May 12 19:45 |
| bgtr4 | so you will go insane separately of common channel | May 12 19:45 |
| bgtr4 | and i know what music is capable of | May 12 19:46 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause i can make it | May 12 19:46 |
| schestowitz | We have #boycottnovell-social | May 12 19:47 |
| bgtr4 | dude | May 12 19:47 |
| schestowitz | for OT discussions | May 12 19:47 |
| bgtr4 | no way | May 12 19:47 |
| schestowitz | yes way | May 12 19:48 |
| bgtr4 | nope? | May 12 19:48 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, you gotta grow | May 12 19:48 |
| bgtr4 | and i won't say more | May 12 19:49 |
| bgtr4 | about it | May 12 19:49 |
| bgtr4 | move to a diff level | May 12 19:49 |
| *lis` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 12 19:50 | |
| schestowitz | Huh? | May 12 19:50 |
| schestowitz | I can't grow. I'm past the pinnacle :-) | May 12 19:51 |
| *schestowitz would need to eat excessively to grow | May 12 19:51 | |
| bgtr4 | mkay, all of us are past the pinnacle | May 12 19:52 |
| bgtr4 | mkay... i sense 2 or 3 no rather grown up enough | May 12 19:52 |
| bgtr4 | but they are still allright | May 12 19:53 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, you shouldn't grow in physical state | May 12 19:54 |
| bgtr4 | it's just up to you | May 12 19:54 |
| bgtr4 | rather in conscious state | May 12 19:54 |
| bgtr4 | and not of mind | May 12 19:54 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause it's physical | May 12 19:54 |
| bgtr4 | and it had better be moved to private | May 12 19:55 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause it has nothing to do with public channel | May 12 19:55 |
| bgtr4 | but you started | May 12 19:55 |
| schestowitz | I was being satirical | May 12 19:56 |
| schestowitz | But if you suggest dropping humour, that's counter-rpoductive | May 12 19:56 |
| schestowitz | We can have some fun in BN and now seem like a bunch of raving lunatics... or grumpy like Nader | May 12 19:57 |
| schestowitz | balzac calls it "angstivism" | May 12 19:57 |
| bgtr4 | i can merge humour with anything | May 12 20:01 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause i'm capable | May 12 20:01 |
| schestowitz | If Microsoft product manager fails to understand some good humour, that's *his* problem, not mine. | May 12 20:02 |
| schestowitz | It's actually funny to see him angry at me | May 12 20:02 |
| schestowitz | For pointing out what they do | May 12 20:02 |
| bgtr4 | yup | May 12 20:02 |
| bgtr4 | and i agree with dat | May 12 20:02 |
| bgtr4 | nobody should move anything far enough against me and he won't lose | May 12 20:03 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Asayism is totally on the Apple side. Useless for op -ed on FOSS: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10237851-16.html | May 12 20:03 |
| schestowitz | "I was listening to MGMT's "Kids" today on iTunes..." Just visualise it.. | May 12 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Larry Augustin Appointed Interim CEO at SusarCRM. Wow. | May 12 20:04 |
| schestowitz | SugarCRM | May 12 20:04 |
| bgtr4 | so you just walk away | May 12 20:04 |
| schestowitz | he's a clever guy | May 12 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Me? No, why? | May 12 20:05 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause i take any call personally | May 12 20:05 |
| bgtr4 | unless that's what i'm fighting against | May 12 20:05 |
| bgtr4 | and even that has problems with reasons | May 12 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Here's a good message: Another Microsoft Ally bites the dust | May 12 20:09 |
| schestowitz | "Looks like Borland has finally joined the ranks of so many other former Microsoft Allies who bet the farm on Microsoft, and ended up being easy aquisition targets because their stock plummeted to almost nothing." | May 12 20:10 |
| schestowitz | "MicroFocus isn't exactly a monster player either. True, it's 15,000 customers are mostly larger companies big enough to have mainframes, but even this user base isn't exactly huge compared to Java or VB. It's sure good to know that the Microsoft monopoly hasn't hurt competition in the IT Industry." | May 12 20:10 |
| schestowitz | "Borland did offer Kylix for Linux until Microsoft slapped them silly and issued a bunch of security updates that sent Borland scrambling to fix the now damaged code resulting from changes in Microsoft's DLLs. Borland cowered and eventually stopped doing much more than maintenance." | May 12 20:10 |
| schestowitz | "MicroFocus does make a really nice Cobol product that is often used for prototyping Mainframe applications on Windows workstations. I wonder if MicroFocus will bring back TurboProlog, that was a really wild product, especially for doing business rules and security rules. Maybe they could do Prolog to LDAP?" | May 12 20:10 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: I don't PM | May 12 20:10 |
| bgtr4 | schestowitz, your luck | May 12 20:11 |
| bgtr4 | or i would smash someone's brains off | May 12 20:11 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause i'm capable | May 12 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Dawson totally misses the point: http://education.zdnet.com/?p=2537 "Sometimes those solutions might be open source. Sometimes, they’ll come from Apple, whether our biases like it or not." It's NOT about open source vs prproprietaryit's about STANDARDS, thus choice. | May 12 20:13 |
| bgtr4 | but you got the pm right | May 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: enough with that. Let's keep on channel's topic :-) | May 12 20:13 |
| bgtr4 | lol, for me topic is what's worth | May 12 20:14 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: sorry, better to keep focused. Else it's just a random 'chat' | May 12 20:17 |
| bgtr4 | there's no random chat | May 12 20:18 |
| bgtr4 | you're just incapable of talking in private | May 12 20:18 |
| bgtr4 | don't make me go any further | May 12 20:18 |
| bgtr4 | and i'm not related to m$ in any way | May 12 20:18 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: I don't talk in private to anyone | May 12 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Unless it's BN-related and must be kept confidential | May 12 20:19 |
| bgtr4 | nice | May 12 20:19 |
| bgtr4 | but you get right my pm messages | May 12 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 12 20:20 |
| schestowitz | And I don't agree. Novell does feel the heat | May 12 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Its employees do worry about Bn and respond | May 12 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Seniors too | May 12 20:21 |
| schestowitz | This doesn't need to be sealed | May 12 20:21 |
| bgtr4 | for sure | May 12 20:22 |
| bgtr4 | where novell cares about bn? | May 12 20:25 |
| schestowitz | Today | May 12 20:26 |
| schestowitz | For example | May 12 20:26 |
| schestowitz | A Novell vice president argues with me in a form | May 12 20:27 |
| schestowitz | *forum | May 12 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Novell used to post comments in BN | May 12 20:27 |
| schestowitz | They stopped when I started exposing them :-D | May 12 20:27 |
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| Balrog_ | well, iTunes University has no DRM ... true, it's a patented codec (MPEG-4 / AAC / h.264) but not DRM | May 12 20:41 |
| Balrog_ | unless it's the app DRM, but talk to the app developers about that. They don't like Apple's control of apps, but they are not against that DRM (which has been proven very weak). | May 12 20:41 |
| bgtr4 | those app developers | May 12 20:42 |
| bgtr4 | can only put on copyrights, no? | May 12 20:42 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause you can't ban x264 and aac | May 12 20:43 |
| bgtr4 | and mpeg4 container usage | May 12 20:43 |
| Balrog_ | wait ... what do you mean by that? | May 12 20:43 |
| bgtr4 | x264 is free | May 12 20:43 |
| bgtr4 | acc? idk | May 12 20:43 |
| Balrog_ | yes, but the h.264 algorithm has patents | May 12 20:43 |
| bgtr4 | mpeg4 container, they are freely accessible via googl | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | e | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | h264? | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | wtf cares? | May 12 20:44 |
| Balrog_ | aac is 'Advanced Audio Coding', similar to MP3 but said to be superior | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | you've got x264 | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | aac? | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | superiour? | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | wtf? | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | same old shit | May 12 20:44 |
| Balrog_ | just use Vorbis then. it's at least as good | May 12 20:44 |
| bgtr4 | yup | May 12 20:45 |
| bgtr4 | vorbis is THE SAME GOOD | May 12 20:45 |
| bgtr4 | if not better | May 12 20:45 |
| bgtr4 | wma... i can't say that it's better | May 12 20:45 |
| bgtr4 | but it's pretty good... i didn't find the differencies | May 12 20:46 |
| Balrog_ | but yeah ... DRM'ed media for iPod/iPhone is only available in the iTunes store, for purchase. Apple doesn't license that DRM everywhere, so it isn't very widespread | May 12 20:46 |
| Balrog_ | WMA is a compatibility nightmare | May 12 20:46 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 20:47 |
| bgtr4 | apple can't be widespread | May 12 20:47 |
| Balrog_ | heh, un-DRMed AAC and h.264/MPEG-4 are widespread | May 12 20:48 |
| bgtr4 | it's just spread... it's incapable of taking major market | May 12 20:48 |
| bgtr4 | mkay | May 12 20:48 |
| bgtr4 | but waht does it mean? | May 12 20:48 |
| Balrog_ | Apple somehow got its quicktime container format to become MPEG standard (MPEG-4 is derived from Quicktime) | May 12 20:48 |
| bgtr4 | quicktime is not a format actually | May 12 20:49 |
| Balrog_ | well, unless the schools are using apps (which I don't know), the podcast RSS feeds should work fine with other players | May 12 20:49 |
| Balrog_ | Quicktime is software, but .MOV is QuickTime 'format' | May 12 20:49 |
| bgtr4 | do you know what mpeg is capable of? | May 12 20:49 |
| bgtr4 | .mov just sucks | May 12 20:49 |
| Balrog_ | what do you mean? | May 12 20:49 |
| Balrog_ | .mov is a container, like ogg | May 12 20:50 |
| bgtr4 | it's still same old mpeg | May 12 20:50 |
| bgtr4 | wait, i gonna return in 2mins | May 12 20:50 |
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| Balrog_ | ogg still has a bit to go | May 12 20:50 |
| Balrog_ | thusnelda needs to be thoroughly stabilized | May 12 20:50 |
| Balrog_ | debugged etc | May 12 20:50 |
| *stinkeye (n=glenfs@220.235.66.185) has left #boycottnovell | May 12 20:51 | |
| bgtr4 | what about ogg | May 12 20:52 |
| bgtr4 | is it capable of storing video? | May 12 20:53 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, sure is | May 12 20:53 |
| bgtr4 | cool | May 12 20:53 |
| Balrog_ | though when it comes to editing, use mkv instead | May 12 20:53 |
| bgtr4 | yet another container | May 12 20:53 |
| Balrog_ | ogg is designed primarily for streaming | May 12 20:53 |
| bgtr4 | so why mkv? | May 12 20:53 |
| Balrog_ | mkv is more powerful | May 12 20:53 |
| bgtr4 | is it proprietary? | May 12 20:53 |
| Balrog_ | nope | May 12 20:53 |
| Balrog_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matroska | May 12 20:53 |
| bgtr4 | mkay | May 12 20:54 |
| bgtr4 | so ogg+x264 in matroska is the best choice | May 12 20:55 |
| Balrog_ | not for distribution ... DISTRIBUTE as ogg / theora / vorbis | May 12 20:56 |
| Balrog_ | for [patent]-FREE | May 12 20:56 |
| bgtr4 | why theora? | May 12 20:56 |
| Balrog_ | because it doesn't have those SW patents on it | May 12 20:56 |
| bgtr4 | x264 isn't patent free? | May 12 20:56 |
| bgtr4 | x264? | May 12 20:56 |
| Balrog_ | x264 uses patented algorithms | May 12 20:56 |
| Balrog_ | the h.264 /standard/ has patented algorithms | May 12 20:57 |
| bgtr4 | so what kind theora is? | May 12 20:57 |
| Balrog_ | ANY h.264 encoder will have patented algorithms | May 12 20:57 |
| bgtr4 | what's it is better than? | May 12 20:57 |
| Balrog_ | the builds from SVN are almost as good as DivX | May 12 20:57 |
| bgtr4 | what* | May 12 20:57 |
| bgtr4 | divx... | May 12 20:57 |
| bgtr4 | mkay... i can stand that against xvid | May 12 20:57 |
| Balrog_ | more work needs to be done, obviously ... and it is | May 12 20:58 |
| bgtr4 | 'cause xvid really sucks | May 12 20:58 |
| bgtr4 | so at least divx... it's much better | May 12 20:58 |
| bgtr4 | but it's theora | May 12 20:58 |
| Balrog_ | go ahead and use h.264 ... but if you want patent-free, it's no good. | May 12 20:58 |
| bgtr4 | does theora is better than divx? | May 12 20:58 |
| bgtr4 | quality-wise | May 12 20:59 |
| Balrog_ | no, it's at about the same level | May 12 20:59 |
| bgtr4 | so same | May 12 20:59 |
| Balrog_ | if you use the theora 1.1 betas | May 12 20:59 |
| Balrog_ | it's slowly improving | May 12 20:59 |
| bgtr4 | i got it | May 12 20:59 |
| Balrog_ | (or alphas) | May 12 20:59 |
| Balrog_ | you have to build from svn | May 12 20:59 |
| bgtr4 | at least it's better that most of the ripped movies in xvid | May 12 20:59 |
| bgtr4 | and it's free | May 12 20:59 |
| bgtr4 | THEORA | May 12 21:00 |
| Balrog_ | heh | May 12 21:00 |
| Balrog_ | ripped movies in xvid suck because of horrible bitrate settings | May 12 21:00 |
| Balrog_ | I use handbrake for my ripping | May 12 21:00 |
| bgtr4 | if xvid had a gamma setting | May 12 21:01 |
| bgtr4 | or brightness | May 12 21:01 |
| bgtr4 | AT LEAST | May 12 21:01 |
| bgtr4 | but it has not | May 12 21:01 |
| bgtr4 | so theora is even better | May 12 21:01 |
| bgtr4 | and it's free and it produces better movies | May 12 21:01 |
| Balrog_ | for better movies, increase bitrate | May 12 21:02 |
| Balrog_ | obvious rule ;) | May 12 21:02 |
| bgtr4 | for sure | May 12 21:02 |
| Balrog_ | an HD (720p) movie at 450 kbps will look horrible | May 12 21:02 |
| bgtr4 | yup | May 12 21:02 |
| bgtr4 | i know dat | May 12 21:02 |
| Balrog_ | that's the worst problem when it comes to quality | May 12 21:03 |
| bgtr4 | and it will look horrible with ANY CODEC | May 12 21:03 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | May 12 21:03 |
| bgtr4 | it should be at least 1kbytesps | May 12 21:03 |
| Balrog_ | ? | May 12 21:03 |
| bgtr4 | 1mbps | May 12 21:04 |
| bgtr4 | bytesps | May 12 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | ah | May 12 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | well, depends on resolution | May 12 21:04 |
| bgtr4 | to be good enough to watch | May 12 21:04 |
| bgtr4 | 720p | May 12 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | yeah ... with h.264 | May 12 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | with other codecs it may have to be a little higher | May 12 21:04 |
| bgtr4 | isn't x264 free? | May 12 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | the source code is | May 12 21:05 |
| bgtr4 | so what is not | May 12 21:05 |
| Balrog_ | the binaries are supposed to be, but you're supposed to pay royalties to the MPEG-LA if you distribute | May 12 21:05 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.mpegla.com/avc/ | May 12 21:05 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.mpegla.com/m4v/ | May 12 21:06 |
| Balrog_ | sw patents suck, but they exist | May 12 21:06 |
| Omar87 | Hi there. | May 12 21:07 |
| Omar87 | On my way home today, I had an argument with a colleague of mine who works for a security technologies company call "Iris Guard". | May 12 21:07 |
| Omar87 | He claimed that a company like that adopting the free open source approach in the their technologies is the easiest recipe for disaster, since those technologies must be very confidential because releasing their source code to the public will only make them exposed and useless. | May 12 21:07 |
| Balrog_ | doesn't make sense | May 12 21:07 |
| bgtr4 | Omar87, why should we use theora ova x264? | May 12 21:07 |
| Balrog_ | use the lock analogy | May 12 21:07 |
| Balrog_ | or the safe analogy | May 12 21:07 |
| Balrog_ | it's basically 'security by obscurity' which doesn't work | May 12 21:08 |
| bgtr4 | twas for Omar87 | May 12 21:08 |
| bgtr4 | so what about me? | May 12 21:08 |
| Omar87 | bgtr4: I didn't get it. | May 12 21:08 |
| bgtr4 | mkay | May 12 21:08 |
| bgtr4 | learn about it and tell us | May 12 21:08 |
| bgtr4 | theora is free | May 12 21:09 |
| bgtr4 | x264 is not | May 12 21:09 |
| Balrog_ | x264 (the encoder) is | May 12 21:09 |
| bgtr4 | EVEN x264 is not | May 12 21:09 |
| Balrog_ | h.264 isn't totally because of patents | May 12 21:09 |
| bgtr4 | i don't care about h264 | May 12 21:09 |
| Balrog_ | BUT x264 is an implementation of an h.264 encoder | May 12 21:09 |
| bgtr4 | i don't wanna use it if i have to pay for extra 50mb | May 12 21:09 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:10 |
| bgtr4 | i know | May 12 21:10 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: By 'security', I meant surveillance technologies, Iris recognition technologies.. etc. | May 12 21:10 |
| Balrog_ | don't worry; if it's private use you're ok | May 12 21:10 |
| bgtr4 | x264 and h264 are quite the same | May 12 21:10 |
| bgtr4 | but what's the difference | May 12 21:10 |
| Balrog_ | h264 is the set of standards | May 12 21:10 |
| bgtr4 | x264 is as well | May 12 21:10 |
| bgtr4 | so waht | May 12 21:10 |
| Balrog_ | x264 is one application that encodes video to fit those standards | May 12 21:10 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: Do you think that those complex technologies can be open source and still succeed? | May 12 21:11 |
| bgtr4 | x264 is quite good at low bitrate encoding | May 12 21:11 |
| Balrog_ | bgtr4: that's because h.264 is designed well when it comes to that | May 12 21:11 |
| bgtr4 | against divx or xvid | May 12 21:11 |
| Balrog_ | certainly. | May 12 21:11 |
| bgtr4 | h264 or x264, Balrog_? | May 12 21:11 |
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| Balrog_ | h264 isn't an encoder but a file format | May 12 21:12 |
| bgtr4 | which one of them are woth using | May 12 21:12 |
| bgtr4 | worth* | May 12 21:12 |
| Balrog_ | use the x264 encoder if you want to make h.264 videos | May 12 21:12 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Roy, here's an interesting one | May 12 21:12 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090508/2235204796.shtml | May 12 21:12 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: I think it can succeed open source | May 12 21:12 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Have At You, Clip Art Pirates! | May 12 21:13 |
| bgtr4 | lol, so x264 is h264 compatible? | May 12 21:13 |
| Balrog_ | you don't get it? x264 is an IMPLEMENTATION of an h.264 encoder | May 12 21:13 |
| bgtr4 | yup | May 12 21:13 |
| Balrog_ | I said that three minutes ago | May 12 21:13 |
| bgtr4 | i actualy get it | May 12 21:13 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: How? | May 12 21:13 |
| bgtr4 | i just want other competent people to say dat | May 12 21:13 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Also here's one from Dec. 2007 about the BSA and SIIA which is hilarious | May 12 21:14 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | How Pursuing Software Piracy Hurts Proprietary Software Firms | May 12 21:14 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | http://techdirt.com/articles/20071228/161917.shtml | May 12 21:14 |
| bgtr4 | The_Mad_Hatter, what do you think about x264 and h264? | May 12 21:14 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: what would the main issues be? | May 12 21:14 |
| Balrog_ | stuff like TrueCrypt and GPG survive | May 12 21:14 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | I don't generally. I mean, I use VLC to play H264 formatted stuff. | May 12 21:15 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:15 |
| bgtr4 | vlc plays anything | May 12 21:15 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Exactly. It makes Quicktime and Windows Media look like shit. | May 12 21:15 |
| bgtr4 | x264 which should be capable of h264 and plenty of others | May 12 21:15 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:15 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | And I know shit real well, I grew up on a farm, and I shoveled a lot of it. | May 12 21:15 |
| bgtr4 | but they are shit | May 12 21:15 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:16 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: if they're afraid of competition, just use GPL | May 12 21:16 |
| Balrog_ | (or AGPL if applicable) | May 12 21:16 |
| bgtr4 | i shoveled some shit on my grandma "farm" | May 12 21:16 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: He claimed that, if those technologies became open source, they will be exposed to everyone, everyone can easily find out how they work and they won't be effective and secure anymore. | May 12 21:16 |
| bgtr4 | what's agpl? | May 12 21:16 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:17 |
| bgtr4 | effective and secure... | May 12 21:17 |
| bgtr4 | anymore!!! | May 12 21:17 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:17 |
| bgtr4 | Omar87 | May 12 21:17 |
| bgtr4 | don't make me laught, they are already effective | May 12 21:17 |
| bgtr4 | secure? only time will tell | May 12 21:18 |
| bgtr4 | anymore? | May 12 21:18 |
| bgtr4 | wtf? | May 12 21:18 |
| bgtr4 | do you understand what platforms that people run | May 12 21:18 |
| MinceR | http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i35/EndOfTheWorld_2006/obama-nwo.jpg | May 12 21:19 |
| Omar87 | Are their any open source security systems?? | May 12 21:19 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:19 |
| bgtr4 | obaaamaaah | May 12 21:19 |
| bgtr4 | none, dude | May 12 21:20 |
| bgtr4 | we actually all know | May 12 21:20 |
| bgtr4 | that obama as well as at least 3 president before him stole their election | May 12 21:20 |
| bgtr4 | and bush is yet another moron | May 12 21:20 |
| bgtr4 | like in the most of the world | May 12 21:21 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Sorry, who claimed that making something open/free would make it less secure? | May 12 21:21 |
| bgtr4 | nope, dude | May 12 21:21 |
| Omar87 | The_Mad_Hatter: My friend. | May 12 21:21 |
| bgtr4 | none from this channel | May 12 21:21 |
| bgtr4 | the thing right now is how much did they paid to steal elections | May 12 21:22 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | OK, just wanted to make sure I didn't have any investments in his company. | May 12 21:22 |
| bgtr4 | in usa at least | May 12 21:22 |
| bgtr4 | his whom company? | May 12 21:22 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Whoever said that. They are obviously idiots. | May 12 21:23 |
| bgtr4 | mkay | May 12 21:23 |
| bgtr4 | i don't know you you paint in | May 12 21:23 |
| Omar87 | The_Mad_Hatter: It's not about Open Source itself. It's only that releasing the source code for those systems in particular will make them exposed, since everyone can see how their built and can easily get past them. | May 12 21:23 |
| bgtr4 | so i know what kind of idiot you are | May 12 21:23 |
| Omar87 | The company is "Iris Guard", I'm not sure if you heard about it. | May 12 21:23 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Right. Just like Linux is so easily hackable | May 12 21:24 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:24 |
| bgtr4 | The_Mad_Hatter, try to hack linux | May 12 21:24 |
| bgtr4 | just try | May 12 21:24 |
| MinceR | that depends on what sense of "hack" do you mean | May 12 21:24 |
| Balrog_ | bgtr4: it's not impossible | May 12 21:24 |
| bgtr4 | it's not impossible | May 12 21:24 |
| Balrog_ | to break-in that is | May 12 21:24 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | No, but it's harder than hacking Windows. | May 12 21:25 |
| bgtr4 | lol | May 12 21:25 |
| bgtr4 | dudes | May 12 21:25 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Anyway, I don't have any money in that company, but I have doubts about how long they will last. | May 12 21:25 |
| bgtr4 | you're missing the thing | May 12 21:25 |
| bgtr4 | who the f will hack linux unless he submits that problem! | May 12 21:25 |
| bgtr4 | i will | May 12 21:26 |
| bgtr4 | even though i'm hacker | May 12 21:26 |
| bgtr4 | i can hack systems | May 12 21:26 |
| Omar87 | The_Mad_Hatter: Are there any similar technologies that are open source? | May 12 21:26 |
| bgtr4 | The_Mad_Hatter, would you even want to hack linux? | May 12 21:27 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Not as an integrated package. | May 12 21:27 |
| Omar87 | http://www.irisguard.com/ | May 12 21:27 |
| bgtr4 | inregrated package? | May 12 21:27 |
| bgtr4 | what's dat | May 12 21:27 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | However this comes under the Breathalyzer rule, if you can't see the source, how do you know it works right? | May 12 21:27 |
| bgtr4 | ... | May 12 21:28 |
| Omar87 | That's true. | May 12 21:28 |
| bgtr4 | doesn't make sense | May 12 21:28 |
| bgtr4 | in case of breaking it | May 12 21:28 |
| bgtr4 | so The_Mad_Hatter | May 12 21:28 |
| bgtr4 | answer my question | May 12 21:28 |
| bgtr4 | would you even want to hack linux? | May 12 21:29 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | If I wanted to rob your identity, yes. | May 12 21:29 |
| bgtr4 | ... | May 12 21:29 |
| bgtr4 | try to rob mine | May 12 21:29 |
| bgtr4 | i'm almost insecure | May 12 21:29 |
| bgtr4 | firewall comodo+windows xp x64 pro not really patched | May 12 21:30 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: having the recognition algorithm as FOSS will make it better | May 12 21:30 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Microsoft raises 3.8 Billion in Bond Sale | May 12 21:30 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/12/198250 | May 12 21:30 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: I tried to tell him that. | May 12 21:30 |
| bgtr4 | mkay... | May 12 21:30 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Yeah, but you're not running Linux | May 12 21:30 |
| Balrog_ | Give him the example of Windows vs. Linux | May 12 21:30 |
| bgtr4 | i'm not right now | May 12 21:30 |
| bgtr4 | i run debian 5.0.2 | May 12 21:31 |
| bgtr4 | when i'm on linux | May 12 21:31 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Here's the link from Slashdot | May 12 21:31 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | http://www.smartmoney.com/Investing/Bonds/What-s-Behind-Microsoft-s-Bond-Offering/?afl=yahoo | May 12 21:31 |
| bgtr4 | i just didn't reboot | May 12 21:31 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: Yeah, but as he claimes, Linux isn't as sensitive as an Iris recognition system used in sensitive places airports and banks. | May 12 21:32 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: what about SELinux? | May 12 21:33 |
| Balrog_ | SELinux is designed for airports and banks ... and other maximum security environments | May 12 21:33 |
| The_Mad_Hatter | Anyway I gotta run - dinner. Bye. | May 12 21:33 |
| *The_Mad_Hatter has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 12 21:33 | |
| bgtr4 | do u think airports and banks update linux rather fast? | May 12 21:34 |
| Omar87 | e7na 3enna mawad tanyeh. | May 12 21:34 |
| Balrog_ | bgtr4: not necessarily, but if it's properly locked down it shouldn't be a real problem | May 12 21:34 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: ?!? | May 12 21:34 |
| trmanco | Microsoft Office PowerPoint OutlineTextRefAtom Parsing Memory Corruption Vulnerability: http://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-09-019/ | May 12 21:34 |
| Balrog_ | ooxml I suppose | May 12 21:35 |
| trmanco | Microsoft Office PowerPoint Notes Container Heap Overflow Vulnerability: http://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-09-020/ | May 12 21:35 |
| Balrog_ | heh, 'more secure' | May 12 21:35 |
| trmanco | :) | May 12 21:36 |
| bgtr4 | lol, m$ office can't be secure at all | May 12 21:36 |
| Balrog_ | Omar87: what is your employer worried about? Someone finding out how to fool the algorithm? Or something related to the networked portions of the app? | May 12 21:36 |
| Balrog_ | ahh ... it's very networked, apparently | May 12 21:37 |
| bgtr4 | networked... | May 12 21:38 |
| bgtr4 | it's very netholed | May 12 21:38 |
| bgtr4 | Balrog_, anyone who will be interested in cracking | May 12 21:39 |
| bgtr4 | he will just take explites | May 12 21:39 |
| bgtr4 | epxloits | May 12 21:40 |
| bgtr4 | that's quite enough | May 12 21:40 |
| bgtr4 | especially for the first dat | May 12 21:40 |
| bgtr4 | and months more | May 12 21:41 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: I believe both. | May 12 21:41 |
| Balrog_ | The algorithm itself would probably be the most useful to be open sourced | May 12 21:42 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: Because, as security system it needs to be secure enough to make sure no body bypasses it. | May 12 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | (/ released as FOSS) | May 12 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | because that will allow it to be scrutinized and improved | May 12 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | now the database system is another story .... at least imo | May 12 21:42 |
| Balrog_ | it would take more work to make FOSS | May 12 21:47 |
| Balrog_ | and would have more potential security vulnerabilities | May 12 21:47 |
| Balrog_ | remember, the fact that it's GPL doesn't mean it can't be sold | May 12 21:48 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: OF course. | May 12 21:49 |
| Balrog_ | does your employer understand those things? | May 12 21:49 |
| Omar87 | Balrog_: I don't really work their. My friend does. | May 12 21:50 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 12 21:50 | |
| Balrog_ | or your friends *** .. sorry | May 12 21:50 |
| Omar87 | I don't think they do. :) | May 12 21:52 |
| trmanco | Hackers steal UC Berkeley health records: http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/960 | May 12 21:54 |
| bgtr4 | oh wtf | May 12 21:56 |
| bgtr4 | now they gonna be spammed | May 12 21:56 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: thanks, got them | May 12 22:00 |
| *schestowitz posting to USENET, finished in a bit | May 12 22:00 | |
| trmanco | you're welcome | May 12 22:00 |
| *bgtr4 gonna sleep | May 12 22:03 | |
| *ushimitsudoki1 (n=ushimits@p4103-ipad05yosemiya.okinawa.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #boycottnovell | May 12 22:04 | |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: they call votes sheep? | May 12 22:19 |
| schestowitz | bgtr4: good night | May 12 22:19 |
| MinceR | apparently | May 12 22:19 |
| schestowitz | *voters | May 12 22:19 |
| schestowitz | What's with the crown of thorn? | May 12 22:20 |
| schestowitz | *s | May 12 22:20 |
| MinceR | allusion to jesus? | May 12 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Does Obama practice faith? I think he is. I trust him because he swore in God's name under oath. *rolls eyes* | May 12 22:20 |
| MinceR | can anyone even have a political career in Jesusland^Wthe USA without at least pretending to be a devout christian? | May 12 22:23 |
| trmanco | The X Window innovation: welcome to the new Xorg:_ http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/the_new_xorg_features | May 12 22:34 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: simple ansswer. No. | May 12 22:37 |
| schestowitz | PR agencies learned this. | May 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Some previous presidents pretended | May 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Just to gain votes | May 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Bush, however, never needed to fake | May 12 22:38 |
| schestowitz | He's naturally dumb | May 12 22:39 |
| schestowitz | He won the love of men for just saying he speaks to God sometimes. Yes, he talks. | May 12 22:39 |
| MinceR | it's just that i don't care if i hear him. :> | May 12 22:40 |
| trmanco | The Best KDE Twitter Client: http://maketecheasier.com/the-best-kde-twitter-client/2009/05/11 | May 12 22:46 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.214.139) has left #boycottnovell | May 12 22:55 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLxmXihkgyg (Record UK debt announced (19Feb09)) | May 12 23:00 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: posted in cola | May 12 23:01 |
| trmanco | I'm reading icazas posts | May 12 23:01 |
| trmanco | and the replies to them | May 12 23:01 |
| MinceR | gn | May 12 23:04 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vglyHuh2un0&NR=1 | May 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twoXZE9U0Io&NR=1 (Citing Atheists Offensive in Obama Inaugural Address?) | May 12 23:19 |
| schestowitz | This relates to this last discussion | May 12 23:19 |
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