| What M$ does is predictable, but it's not rational or excusable. They sabotage. | May 18 00:00 | |
| it is criminal | May 18 00:00 | |
| schestowitz | Skip to 5:30 | May 18 00:02 |
| schestowitz | twitter: it is | May 18 00:02 |
| schestowitz | You should see what people say behind the scenes | May 18 00:02 |
| schestowitz | They have to be polite cause of employers | May 18 00:02 |
| _Goblin | Great question by someone on twitter " Why the hell do Linux users hate Mono so much?" - I think the question should be "Why the hell dont Linux users hate Mono more." | May 18 00:28 |
| schestowitz | Why does Microsoft hates Linus so much? | May 18 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Answer: because it's a threat | May 18 00:30 |
| schestowitz | /linux/linux/ | May 18 00:30 |
| schestowitz | *linus I mean (typo) | May 18 00:30 |
| _Goblin | UbuntuOne has just failed to authenticate...:( The joys of closed beta testing... | May 18 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Is it proprietary at the server level only? | May 18 00:34 |
| Good to know that Linux users hate Mono. | May 18 00:34 | |
| _Goblin | I believe so.... | May 18 00:34 |
| and that the hatred is widely known | May 18 00:34 | |
| wide enough for people to Twitter each other about it. | May 18 00:34 | |
| _Goblin | Its not got the functionality of Dropbox and theres no official client for cross platforms.... | May 18 00:34 |
| oiaohm | mono developers forgot history. | May 18 00:40 |
| oiaohm | JIT has never turned out to be memory effective. | May 18 00:40 |
| *silentivm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 18 00:41 | |
| oiaohm | The question should be why do mono developers feel threated by a C++ clone. | May 18 00:43 |
| oiaohm | If there system is truly better they should be able to out do it. | May 18 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Every open source project has been cloned at some point. | May 18 00:43 |
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| schestowitz | They should use Java | May 18 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Not tyrantware | May 18 00:49 |
| schestowitz | More new links: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/17/firefox-gets-new-icon/ | May 18 00:49 |
| schestowitz | have fun, tessier has brought the server to wonderful stability | May 18 00:50 |
| schestowitz | It's now faster than the old host has ever been. | May 18 00:50 |
| schestowitz | DDOS attack on us for 3 days. Let's hope it's over. | May 18 00:51 |
| schestowitz | "@schestowitz: Great on both counts, I wish !ubuntu would get rid of mono, at leas on the default installation." | May 18 00:52 |
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| Balrog__ | schestowitz: tessier tweaked the filters? | May 18 02:10 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz should be asleep Balrog__ | May 18 02:11 |
| Balrog__ | erm ok | May 18 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Filters did get tweeked. | May 18 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Other configuration things got changed. | May 18 02:12 |
| Balrog__ | good. hopefully the bad guys won't figure it out | May 18 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically boycott novel site is a lot stronger than it ever has been. | May 18 02:13 |
| Balrog__ | good. | May 18 02:13 |
| oiaohm | In the IT world what does not kill you makes you stronger. | May 18 02:13 |
| oiaohm | Something attackers forget. | May 18 02:13 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/05/hackers-crack-flight-sim-community-site-ruin-it-for-everyone.ars At least Boycott novell had a data backup plan. | May 18 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Even better boycott novell may end up dual server locations making it even stronger Balrog__ | May 18 02:15 |
| oiaohm | All the attacker really did was bring a lot of free hosting offers out. | May 18 02:15 |
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| dsmith_ | server up | May 18 03:18 |
| dsmith_ | yau | May 18 03:18 |
| *tessier wonders why sometimes the front page is a wiki page and sometimes it is a news pae | May 18 03:30 | |
| tessier | page | May 18 03:30 |
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| tessier | oiaohm: All data on my servers gets backed up to Amazon S3 at the very least. | May 18 03:32 |
| oiaohm | http://wordpress.org/extend/ideas/topic.php?id=2730&replies=1&topic_id=2730 Personally I think improving software is a better solution tessier. | May 18 03:43 |
| oiaohm | So site runner has there backups tessier. | May 18 03:44 |
| oiaohm | tessier: has the squid cache been cleared since the default was changed? | May 18 03:44 |
| oiaohm | I would not put it past a squid gremlin. | May 18 03:45 |
| tessier | I hit shift-reload would should cause squid to refetch the page. | May 18 03:58 |
| tessier | The attack continues btw. | May 18 03:59 |
| tessier | But we have the filters dialed in pretty well such that it isn't making much difference. | May 18 03:59 |
| tessier | http://copilotco.com/paste/29/ | May 18 04:01 |
| tessier | Still lots of stuff like that in the logs but it is at a very manageable level. Only goes for a few seconds then gets cut off so nobody notices. | May 18 04:02 |
| oiaohm | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php Wonder if that can be renamed. | May 18 04:12 |
| oiaohm | It would be temping to have schestowitz test it with some other directory name. | May 18 04:13 |
| oiaohm | So attacks in admin access could be sent straight to keeper. | May 18 04:13 |
| oiaohm | Great another missing feature. | May 18 04:18 |
| oiaohm | http://www.michiknows.com/2007/02/12/who-else-wants-to-hide-their-wordpress-admin-folder/ Its nasty tessier | May 18 04:20 |
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| oiaohm | tessier: tell me if I am having a insane moment. Can wordpress be offset of the base directory and use a rewrite to place it as prime yet not rewrite for wp-admin. schestowitz can still operate it because he knows the offset directory. | May 18 05:27 |
| oiaohm | I always like locking attackers out. | May 18 05:28 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Firefox pretty much needs major surgery at this point | May 18 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | not just some new artwork | May 18 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | the problems with Gecko seem to be very fundamental and go all the way back to the late 1990s | May 18 06:58 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not even sure you'd recognize it if they rebuilt it to take on Webkit | May 18 06:58 |
| DaemonFC | well, it's at least good to see the major distributions veering away from Mono | May 18 06:59 |
| DaemonFC | I've said all along that there's better things to do with the space on the CD | May 18 06:59 |
| DaemonFC | even if it doesn't trip over any patents | May 18 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/17/gnote-made-it-to-debian-sid/ | May 18 07:00 |
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| DaemonFC | I think this cloud computing crap could be worse than Microsoft | May 18 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | I think people are so worried about overthrowing MS and Windows that they aren't stopping to think of what coudl replace it | May 18 07:20 |
| schestowitz | Morning. | May 18 07:38 |
| schestowitz | Great job, tessier, blocking the attacks | May 18 07:38 |
| oiaohm | Its picking on a weakness in wordpress design schestowitz | May 18 07:46 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: Firefox is having quite major internal alterations. Just will take time. | May 18 07:47 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: in pastebin? | May 18 07:49 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: that's me accessing http://boycottnovell.com/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php | May 18 07:50 |
| schestowitz | My IP... | May 18 07:50 |
| schestowitz | I think it's autosave | May 18 07:50 |
| schestowitz | Advice just sent in: | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | == | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | Was it only the RSS / Atom feeds? | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | You could set up a CNAME in DNS for rss.boycottnovell.com | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | Then that could be pointed to wherever you happen to decide to serve up | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | the feeds. Since it is just an XML file, little needs to be done on | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | that machine and it could be hosted nearly anyway. Even a 'push' script | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | of some kind could be used to serve the updates. | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, the refresh time can be set in the feed metadata so at least the | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | honest ones won't visit more frequently that the amount you specify. If | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | you set it for 5 minutes or so, that should be enough. Then anyone | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | visiting more than 1 per minute is up to somethig (or sharing a subnet | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | behind NAT) | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | = | May 18 07:52 |
| schestowitz | tessier: front page is not the Wiki because I changed it. The Wiki has no caching, except for the RSS feeds it pulls in | May 18 07:58 |
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| schestowitz | I see the attackers found a route in | May 18 08:07 |
| schestowitz | tessier: did you notice? | May 18 08:09 |
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| DaemonFC | Your User Agent is: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1b3pre) Gecko/20090223 SeaMonkey/2.0a3 | May 18 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 18 08:31 |
| schestowitz | "The IEEE does not seem to care for ODF. I is ashamed." | May 18 08:35 |
| DaemonFC | XML document formats just leads to bloat | May 18 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | a document that is like 9 kilobytes as a Word 95 DOC can be a 100 kilobyte Office '07 docx or a 150 kilobyte ODF | May 18 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | for the most common documents, Microsoft OOXML bloates the file size tenfold and ODF perhaps as much as 15 times | May 18 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | *bloats | May 18 08:39 |
| schestowitz | IG Accuses SEC Lawyers of Possible Insider Trading < http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/05/ig-accuses-sec-lawyers-of-possible-insider-trading.html > | May 18 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | really ODF and OOXML should both be discarded | May 18 08:40 |
| schestowitz | Nope | May 18 08:40 |
| schestowitz | Portability is more important than speed | May 18 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | and they should develop something capable of the small file sizes of older formats | May 18 08:40 |
| schestowitz | Why wear a seatbelt? It just takes time... | May 18 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | I'm fairly disgusted by any kind of XML document format | May 18 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | they can't be anything other than needless complexity | May 18 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | and ambiguous "standardization" | May 18 08:41 |
| *DaemonFC prints out the specification for ODF and drops all 1,000 pages on schestowitz | May 18 08:42 | |
| DaemonFC | someone that makes back braces is employed cause of me | May 18 08:42 |
| *DaemonFC drops the 2,000 pages of OOXML next | May 18 08:42 | |
| schestowitz | 7000+ | May 18 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | Jesus | May 18 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft released the DOC binary format specification and I don't believe it was more than 100 pages or so | May 18 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | not saying it was spectacular | May 18 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | but god damn.... | May 18 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | you know? | May 18 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | neither of the XML formats are something a human could easily wrap their head around | May 18 08:43 |
| schestowitz | A New Era of Corruption? < http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id=c84d2eda-0e95-42fe-99a2-5400e7dd8eab > | May 18 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft's is worse but that doesn't make ODF good | May 18 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft doesn't even follow their own "standard" correctly in Office 2007 | May 18 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | from what I understand | May 18 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Standard? | May 18 08:44 |
| schestowitz | None | May 18 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | I mean their own specification is violated, by them | May 18 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | it's hard to tell if it's malicious or just because it's 7,000 pages long | May 18 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 08:45 |
| schestowitz | The cracker hit hard on BN at the moment. tessier kept them out all night. | May 18 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | there has to be a better way of doing document formatting | May 18 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | I know XML is probably not it | May 18 08:46 |
| *libervisco has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 18 08:46 | |
| DaemonFC | I heard XML being discussed before anyone had a finalized format out and thought "Oh shit" | May 18 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | I think XML is one of those solutions looking for a problem | May 18 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | when the problem wasn't the format, it was the licensing | May 18 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | kind of like Firefox was the solution to the Mozilla "bloat" and ended up consuming about the same disk space, and RAM | May 18 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | and just removed features | May 18 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | people have a tendency to make things much more complicated and much less useful in the process or trying to make them simpler | May 18 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | "It's not done til nobody can understand it, but in theory it's human-readable" | May 18 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | is how the XML document formats came along | May 18 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think the average end user gives a shit if it's in XML or binary, because they're not going to know how to directly manipulate either | May 18 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | so it probably would have been better to use a binary format | May 18 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | they worked fine for 25 years before this XML nonsense came about | May 18 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | and where they didn't, it was licensing problems | May 18 08:54 |
| schestowitz | load average: 84.59, 67.87, 61.74 | May 18 08:56 |
| schestowitz | Eeek :-o | May 18 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | in practice I've noticed that you never really know what you're getting yourself into with docx or odf | May 18 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | because no two office suites or filters ever spit out what you put in | May 18 08:57 |
| DaemonFC | I think Word 95 doc will be around for a long......long time | May 18 08:58 |
| schestowitz | WolframAlpha’s big problem < http://www.hyperorg.com/blogger/2009/05/17/wolframalphas-big-problem/ > http://mashable.com/2009/05/17/wolfram-easter-eggs/ | May 18 08:59 |
| DaemonFC | Word 2007 is slooooooooooooow | May 18 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | I mean at least several times less responsive than Word 2003 | May 18 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft gives out 'free copies" of all their stuff to the library here | May 18 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | the library was on Windows 95 + Netscape Navigator til around 2002 when the machines were getting too old to do anything with | May 18 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | so they were considering rolling out a customized Fedora with the terminal multiplying feature to creat 10 virtual workstations per tower | May 18 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | so suddenly when Microsoft is being forced to compete with that they not only fork over 12 boxes running XP Pro | May 18 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | but MS Office as well | May 18 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | they'd rather operate at a loss than let thousands of people be exposed to Fedora | May 18 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | the library in Marion wasn't having any of this cause they knew they'd have to hire more people to administer the Windows machines and that the 20 extra boxes would be running on their electricity :P | May 18 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | so they went with the rollout of Fedora | May 18 09:06 |
| schestowitz | Excellent | May 18 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | So the town ran by the Democrats is cutting the stupid shit out of its budget | May 18 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | while our town which is ran by the Republicans is just raising taxes | May 18 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | to cover all the inefficiencies | May 18 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is still like a drug dealer. Giving lots of free drugs, hoping to make a bundle later | May 18 09:08 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah | May 18 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's eaasy to get Windows at anything you're willing to pay | May 18 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | from free to retail price | May 18 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Just by signing up for 2 credit hours at the community college last year..... | May 18 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | I got Vista Ultimate for $5 | May 18 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | at the student store | May 18 09:09 |
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| schestowitz | It costs no money to make, just ;packaging | May 18 09:09 |
| schestowitz | Some people get it and ebay it | May 18 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | bingo | May 18 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I did that several times | May 18 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | I figure Microsoft has financed about $1,000 of my education | May 18 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | lol | May 18 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | just from reselling my student copies | May 18 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | I've got every version of Windows just because I never have to pay much of anything for them | May 18 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | from Windows 2000 to Vista | May 18 09:11 |
| schestowitz | Neither did MS | May 18 09:12 |
| schestowitz | But some people pay for 0s and 1s of inferior software | May 18 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft lets it be | May 18 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | the page criticizing UAC mysteriously vanished | May 18 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.ditii.com/2008/05/17/pc-tools-questions-windows-vistas-uac-security-effectiveness/ | May 18 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | this page linked to a security research company criticizing UAC | May 18 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | on the grounds that Vista let in more malware than 2000 | May 18 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.securecomputing.net.au/News/111302,pc-tools-attacks-vistas-security-again.aspx | May 18 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | looks like they moved it :P | May 18 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | "Earlier this week, Microsoft attacked results of a PC Tools' study which found Vista allowed 639 threats per thousand PCs compared with 86 for Windows 2000." | May 18 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | I make UAC challenge me for my password | May 18 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | to force me to stop and not just instinctively hit continue | May 18 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | that effectively makes me a standard user | May 18 09:16 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Microsoft phoned them | May 18 09:16 |
| schestowitz | Like they did with other bloggers | May 18 09:16 |
| schestowitz | They censor the Web | May 18 09:16 |
| schestowitz | W-E helps them do this | May 18 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder what they mean by saying UAC is ineffective because it only monitors certain actions | May 18 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | what has it left unguarded? | May 18 09:18 |
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| ushimitsudoki1 | Some one testing the waters at getting Moonlight in Ubuntu by default? http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19820/ | May 18 09:32 |
| schestowitz | "Silverlight technology is very widespread on the Internet. " IS it? | May 18 09:33 |
| schestowitz | Who is this person propsing this? | May 18 09:33 |
| schestowitz | Could be a Microsoft person in disguise. | May 18 09:33 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Not sure - I didn't recognize the name immediately | May 18 09:34 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | The account has a few ideas, so I wouldn't say they are a plant/shill for just this post though | May 18 09:34 |
| schestowitz | Ah, OK | May 18 09:35 |
| schestowitz | BN is still under attack. load average: 48.22, 56.48, 54.69 | May 18 09:35 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Ubuntu has lots of users that don't care about Free values - who basically just want a no-cost version of Windows. | May 18 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Would contacting the British police potentially be of any use? | May 18 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Some say they have departments to deal with such stuff. | May 18 09:36 |
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| mib_9qbr2j | is the website down? | May 18 09:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 18 09:41 |
| schestowitz | DDOS | May 18 09:41 |
| mib_9qbr2j | when will it be back up? | May 18 09:42 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: what would you have done? | May 18 09:42 |
| schestowitz | mib_9qbr2j: I'm not sure. It has been choas for almost 4 days | May 18 09:42 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | schestowitz: done for what? | May 18 09:42 |
| schestowitz | To prevent DDOS | May 18 09:42 |
| schestowitz | They don't relent | May 18 09:42 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | contact ISPs on both sides of the attack? | May 18 09:43 |
| schestowitz | ISP or host? | May 18 09:44 |
| schestowitz | The old host is sort of secretive about it. We don't know what it's up to | May 18 09:44 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | host on your side, the highest level ISP(s) on the attacking side if the IP range helps pin that down. | May 18 09:44 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | I'm not really a network guru :( | May 18 09:45 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 18 09:45 |
| MinceR | hay | May 18 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I made a proposal | May 18 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | to remove moonlight from the repository | May 18 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | May 18 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | Rationale: To work effictively, Moonlight requires non-free binary codecs which can only be legally downloaded from Microsoft.com, if users want the moonlight plugin it is easy enough to let them find it and pull that switch by themselves. | May 18 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | Including this plugin in Ubuntu adds an air of legitimacy to a corrupt and patent encumbered format which is totally useless unless the user signs a Microsoft End User License Agreement. | May 18 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | This is tantamount to offering "free software" which requires Microsoft Windows. | May 18 09:47 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, well.. | May 18 09:47 |
| schestowitz | Leave it to EU authorities who treat Silver Lie like an antitrust violation | May 18 09:48 |
| schestowitz | Novell and lackeys like Miguel help Microsoft here | May 18 09:48 |
| schestowitz | As they did in other areas, such as Samba | May 18 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/19884/ | May 18 09:48 |
| schestowitz | To sum up, bunch of white-collar criminals | May 18 09:48 |
| schestowitz | I think I'll just try to contact Internet police here and see what they say... | May 18 09:49 |
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| *ziggyfish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | May 18 09:49 | |
| ziggyfish | good afternoon all | May 18 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | I'm going to try to contact the lcoal police. See you guys later | May 18 09:53 |
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| schestowitz | The Police Public Service team will contact me back later. These people hardly know a thing about the Internet, though. | May 18 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://home.snafu.de/tilman/mozilla/stomps.html | May 18 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The only thing the police here know is how to beat up drunks and respond to domestic disputes :D | May 18 10:09 |
| schestowitz | I know, I know... | May 18 10:10 |
| DaemonFC | sending like 14 police officers out to handle something that doesn't require any of their attention is their specialty | May 18 10:10 |
| schestowitz | They hardly know how to type a description | May 18 10:10 |
| schestowitz | But at least it's now escalated, in case the old host is doing nothing about it. | May 18 10:10 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Those fucking religious loonies have twisted the law so tight | May 18 10:11 |
| DaemonFC | that taking a piss outside is a sex offense now | May 18 10:11 |
| schestowitz | The security team at the University would actually be a lot more valuable | May 18 10:11 |
| DaemonFC | you have to register as a sex offender for the next 10 years | May 18 10:11 |
| schestowitz | They tracked me before and they actually know their stuff. | May 18 10:11 |
| DaemonFC | for taking a leak | May 18 10:11 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | May 18 10:11 |
| schestowitz | So did you ever commit the crime? | May 18 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm, was always careful to hide somewhere first | May 18 10:12 |
| schestowitz | Full bladder -> shall I let it explode or become a "sex offender"? | May 18 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | that's all I need "We can't hire you, 8 years ago you took a piss" | May 18 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | meh, there's like 20 churches and a Christian faux-university here | May 18 10:14 |
| DaemonFC | in a town of like 17,000 | May 18 10:14 |
| DaemonFC | it's depressing | May 18 10:14 |
| *schestowitz on phone w/ police | May 18 10:15 | |
| schestowitz | they have no clue | May 18 10:15 |
| DaemonFC | and all the moderate churches are gone | May 18 10:15 |
| DaemonFC | the ones that are left are all the American Taliban style | May 18 10:15 |
| schestowitz | she asks supervisor | May 18 10:15 |
| DaemonFC | the town is called Huntington | May 18 10:16 |
| zer0c00l | yeah female police :P | May 18 10:16 |
| DaemonFC | I call it Huntingtucky | May 18 10:16 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 10:16 |
| DaemonFC | please tell me how I ended up broke and stranded here | May 18 10:16 |
| DaemonFC | it's like the meth capital of Indiana | May 18 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | I swear | May 18 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | half the town is loony Christians, the other half are some kind of petty criminals | May 18 10:17 |
| schestowitz | It's useless | May 18 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | it's like being caught in the middle of two factions | May 18 10:18 |
| schestowitz | They try to pass it all to the host | May 18 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 18 10:18 |
| schestowitz | As in, we're the police, you'll need to take it further up | May 18 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Me; but this is a crime | May 18 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | well, here I would call the state police | May 18 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | not the local or country ones | May 18 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Police: yes, but I don't know what to do | May 18 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Me: where do I go next? | May 18 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Police: I'll ask supervisor | May 18 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | I have no idea what you would do there | May 18 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | because I have no idea how the legal system works there | May 18 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Me: what good is a law if there is no enforcement..? | May 18 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Blah, blah, blah... | May 18 10:19 |
| schestowitz | The state of the lawless... | May 18 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | oh download a Metallica MP3 | May 18 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | and they'll enforce the shit | May 18 10:19 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Laws in papers, but unless if's some guy pissing in the bush, they know nothing, ear nothing, see nada | May 18 10:20 |
| schestowitz | Haha | May 18 10:20 |
| schestowitz | So true | May 18 10:20 |
| schestowitz | COpyright is for large companies | May 18 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 18 10:20 |
| schestowitz | Big clients, big $$ | May 18 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | just contribute to the "campaign funds" of your most influential politicians | May 18 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | they'll take real good care of you | May 18 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | at least that seems to be the same everywhere | May 18 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 10:21 |
| schestowitz | load average: 43.55, 45.07, 48.27 | May 18 10:21 |
| schestowitz | I'll contact the host again | May 18 10:21 |
| DaemonFC | we have two parties and it seems like they're both an unacceptable compromise | May 18 10:22 |
| DaemonFC | they always have to hide behind religion and flag lapel pins | May 18 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | so they're both the same | May 18 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | if you tell people the truth and they don't want to hear it, they'll take it out on you by voting for your opponent and wishing their point of view were so | May 18 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Me to host: "I have spoken to the British police about this DDOS attack and they suggested that I let the host redirect the complain via the Web host. The attacks still persist after 3.5 days. I don't know who is behind it, but this is criminal and we need to get to the bottom of this. | May 18 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Please let us know where things stand." | May 18 10:23 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 18 10:24 |
| hacktolive | schestowitz: the interwebs are a wild place... | May 18 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | seems like Seamonkey is all but forgotten | May 18 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | :( | May 18 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | it still works fine and is compatible with most of Firefox's addons | May 18 10:25 |
| DaemonFC | but it doesn't seem to get the love it used to | May 18 10:25 |
| schestowitz | hacktolive: it is, not to mention slander. | May 18 10:25 |
| schestowitz | But someone ought to step in | May 18 10:26 |
| DaemonFC | people always find a way to slander those they disagree with | May 18 10:26 |
| schestowitz | People would call us "paranoid" for suggesting that some Microsoft or SUSE fan is behind this. Or maybe some company paid some dosh for script kiddies to do this. | May 18 10:26 |
| DaemonFC | "He's a homosexual" is probably the best ad hominem | May 18 10:27 |
| DaemonFC | at least the most enduring | May 18 10:27 |
| DaemonFC | why would Microsoft bother to do that? | May 18 10:27 |
| schestowitz | It turns from simply reporting on a Web site to more erratic form of activity where you are constantly attacked. As though it's activism. | May 18 10:27 |
| ziggyfish | is this why the site it down again | May 18 10:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the site causes damage to Microsoft. | May 18 10:28 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: yes | May 18 10:28 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but they're not stupid | May 18 10:28 |
| schestowitz | I know | May 18 10:28 |
| schestowitz | That's why I said "People would call us "paranoid" for suggesting that some Microsoft or SUSE fan is behind this." | May 18 10:28 |
| schestowitz | I also said "fan" | May 18 10:29 |
| ziggyfish | schestowitz, have you thought about hosting it your self | May 18 10:29 |
| schestowitz | As in some vindicative " MS fan or MVP or partners | May 18 10:29 |
| schestowitz | Either way, it's someone who wants to gag the site | May 18 10:29 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: we already do | May 18 10:29 |
| schestowitz | A fellow guy put it on his server | May 18 10:30 |
| schestowitz | But it's still being DDOSed | May 18 10:30 |
| ziggyfish | do you know the IP? | May 18 10:30 |
| schestowitz | Not one IP | May 18 10:30 |
| schestowitz | It's DDOS | May 18 10:30 |
| *ziggyfish such an idiot sometimes | May 18 10:31 | |
| DaemonFC | not all MS MVPs are unduly biased | May 18 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of them are | May 18 10:31 |
| hacktolive | god-damn botnets... | May 18 10:31 |
| DaemonFC | http://sillydog.org/forum/sdt_15708.php | May 18 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft adds (.NET CLR 3.5.30729) to UserAgent of Firefox | May 18 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft has infected Firefox with an addon that adds .Net to it | May 18 10:32 |
| DaemonFC | whether the user likes it or not | May 18 10:33 |
| DaemonFC | and does it silently | May 18 10:33 |
| schestowitz | Australian Parliament to investigate cybercrime http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25071/1055/ | May 18 10:33 |
| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, Why am i not surprised? | May 18 10:33 |
| schestowitz | "Monday, 18 May 2009 The Australian Government has launched a parliamentary enquiry into cybercrime and its impact on Australian consumers." | May 18 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The Australians are fucking nuts | May 18 10:34 |
| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, not all ;) | May 18 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | I've never seen a Democratic nation that filtered free speech ala Iran | May 18 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | til now anyway | May 18 10:34 |
| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, Us Australians think the US is nuts | May 18 10:35 |
| DaemonFC | uh huh | May 18 10:35 |
| DaemonFC | well, we're not filtering the web | May 18 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | Australia has taken that step into fascism | May 18 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | and taken the title of fattest nation per capita | May 18 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | What would we do without you guys? | May 18 10:36 |
| DaemonFC | you make us look good | May 18 10:37 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 10:37 |
| schestowitz | I guess the most reassuring way to look at it is as a sign of success | May 18 10:37 |
| schestowitz | If they try to shut us up so miserably by resorting to crime, then it means the writings have impact. | May 18 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Crme to hide more crime (Microsoft's crime for example) | May 18 10:38 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Microsoft loads the Firefox extension in a way as to where it doesn't show up | May 18 10:38 |
| DaemonFC | in the extensions list | May 18 10:38 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, old news | May 18 10:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://sillydog.org/forum/sdp_96621.php#96621 | May 18 10:38 |
| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, is it a forced install? | May 18 10:38 |
| DaemonFC | well, .Net is integrated into Vista | May 18 10:39 |
| DaemonFC | so I would assume so | May 18 10:39 |
| ziggyfish | thank god I run an os that I have control over | May 18 10:39 |
| schestowitz | I'll be back in 2 hours | May 18 10:42 |
| ziggyfish | one of the things that really annoyed me about Windows was that when a new window opened it would still the focus and you would end up typing something into the other window | May 18 10:42 |
| DaemonFC | you can prevent that | May 18 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | there was a setting for it in TweakUI | May 18 10:52 |
| DaemonFC | on XP anyway | May 18 10:52 |
| ziggyfish | DaemonFC, I'm not going to pay/wait time for something that should be done by default | May 18 10:58 |
| ziggyfish | Linux has it bult in, and customisable for each window. | May 18 10:59 |
| DaemonFC | I am liking Seamonkey better than Firefox | May 18 11:06 |
| ziggyfish | what does seamonkey do that firfox doesn't other than they both run off of gecko | May 18 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | Seamonkey is an integrated suite | May 18 11:10 |
| DaemonFC | browser, main and news, IRC client, WYSIWYG HTML editor | May 18 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | it's not really much bigger than Firefox | May 18 11:11 |
| ziggyfish | downloading it now | May 18 11:12 |
| DaemonFC | be sure to switch to the Modern theme and adjust your tab preferences | May 18 11:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2774/43190063.png | May 18 11:13 |
| DaemonFC | basically if you're going to have Firefox and Thunderbird, you may as well jsut use Seamonkey | May 18 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | cause that way you only need one Gecko runtime installed | May 18 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | Seamonkey 2.0 alpha 3 and Firefox 3.6 beta 4 both use the same version of Gecko | May 18 11:15 |
| ziggyfish | Ubuntu only installs one runtime anyway :) | May 18 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | FF is 7.5 meg download and Seamonkey is 10 megs | May 18 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think so | May 18 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think Seamonkey runs on the shared Xulrunner | May 18 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | it may though | May 18 11:16 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@211.27.159.146) has joined #boycottnovell | May 18 11:17 | |
| DaemonFC | I've always liked Seamonkey | May 18 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | I kind of got used to the way it worked with the older Mozilla Suite | May 18 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | and Netscape 4 | May 18 11:18 |
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| DaemonFC | there's just no point in Firefox | May 18 11:19 |
| DaemonFC | from a design viewpoint | May 18 11:19 |
| kentma | ? | May 18 11:20 |
| DaemonFC | once you the Gecko engine and browser wrapper installed, the mail client and Chatzilla aren't too much extra | May 18 11:20 |
| ziggyfish | both firefox and Seamonkey depend on Xulrunner, so I assume this would be a shared package | May 18 11:20 |
| DaemonFC | they could have easily just made Mail/News and Chatzilla optional in the Mozilla installer | May 18 11:20 |
| DaemonFC | *have | May 18 11:21 |
| DaemonFC | I think Chatzilla was 100 kilobytes and Mail/News were like 2 megs | May 18 11:21 |
| DaemonFC | for the XPI packages | May 18 11:21 |
| DaemonFC | they didn't trim bloat in making Firefox, it was a PR stunt | May 18 11:22 |
| ziggyfish | chatzilla sucks, try xchat | May 18 11:22 |
| oiaohm | chatzilla has a useful tracing mod. | May 18 11:22 |
| DaemonFC | http://chatzilla.hacksrus.com/ | May 18 11:23 |
| kentma | Daemon - what was a PR stunt? I don't understand what you're driving at. | May 18 11:35 |
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| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 18 11:41 | |
| DaemonFC | Firefox | May 18 11:42 |
| *ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving") | May 18 11:48 | |
| kentma | indeed, but what about it? | May 18 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | ahhh | May 18 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | was saying that Firefox is mostly PR over the old Mozilla Suite | May 18 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | the "We got rid of the bloat" claim | May 18 12:07 |
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| *mib_1k6ifh is now known as _Hicham_ | May 18 12:17 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi schestowitz! | May 18 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can. | May 18 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | Jamie Zawinski :P | May 18 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | Jamie was a long time member of the UNIX-HATERS mailing list, and his comment about widget toolkits for the X Window System was quoted in the "X-Windows Disaster" chapter of The UNIX-HATERS Handbook: | May 18 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | "Using these toolkits is like trying to make a bookshelf out of mashed potatoes." | May 18 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/unix-haters/x-windows/disaster.html | May 18 12:20 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 12:20 |
| oiaohm | One section that is badly wrong. | May 18 12:20 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Client Quit) | May 18 12:20 | |
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| *mib_82sy07 is now known as _Hicham_ | May 18 12:21 | |
| oiaohm | People built toolkits to hide X11 problems. | May 18 12:22 |
| oiaohm | So no one was correcting the core of it. | May 18 12:22 |
| oiaohm | It was not trying to build a bookshelf out of mashed potatoes. It was like trying to stand on quicksand. | May 18 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Or trying to build a house on defective foundations. | May 18 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | so who is Mozilla's new "Chief Security Something or Other" now that Window Snyder is gone? | May 18 12:25 |
| oiaohm | I am going to be glad when the final changes over to dri2 are complete. | May 18 12:26 |
| *hacktolive (n=ubuntu@87.196.35.25) has left #boycottnovell | May 18 12:26 | |
| _Hicham_ | dri2 works great now for me oiaohm | May 18 12:27 |
| _Hicham_ | dri2 with KMS needs to be pushed into distros | May 18 12:27 |
| oiaohm | I cannot switch my coding over to it pure yet _Hicham_ | May 18 12:27 |
| _Hicham_ | to fix things up | May 18 12:27 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u mean oiaohm? | May 18 12:28 |
| oiaohm | I have nvidia card. | May 18 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Over time DRI2 can allow more and more things use almost direct interfaces to video cards. | May 18 12:30 |
| _Hicham_ | do u use Nouveau Driver? | May 18 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Its support of hardware is way worse than the ATI one _Hicham_ | May 18 12:31 |
| oiaohm | I need to be able to use my machine for 3d work. | May 18 12:32 |
| _Hicham_ | Nouveau doesn't support 3D Acceleration yet | May 18 12:32 |
| _Hicham_ | it has only 2D support | May 18 12:32 |
| _Hicham_ | but things will change | May 18 12:32 |
| _Hicham_ | however, its development is slow compared to ATI and Intel's ones | May 18 12:33 |
| _Hicham_ | coz there is no specs | May 18 12:33 |
| _Hicham_ | only reverse engineering | May 18 12:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Nvidia isn't playing nice with Open Source | May 18 12:33 |
| _Hicham_ | though they release good proprietary drivers | May 18 12:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's not really their choice | May 18 12:35 |
| DaemonFC | they license a lot of the stuff used for their own drivers | May 18 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Most likely when ATI gets fully functional I will have to serousally look at changing cards. | May 18 12:35 |
| DaemonFC | they'd be sued if they released that | May 18 12:35 |
| DaemonFC | breach of contract | May 18 12:35 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: AMD/ATI had the same issue DaemonFC | May 18 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Reason why they are releasing audited specs. | May 18 12:35 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, and the open source drivers are still useless -to- bad performing | May 18 12:36 |
| DaemonFC | compared to their binary drivers | May 18 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Not for all versions of there cards. | May 18 12:36 |
| DaemonFC | but everyone is like "OMG!!!!11111 specs!!!!" | May 18 12:36 |
| oiaohm | There are some where the open source ati driver out performs the closed source one. | May 18 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Its not a black and white. | May 18 12:37 |
| DaemonFC | I put my laptop back on XP | May 18 12:37 |
| _Hicham_ | my case for example | May 18 12:37 |
| DaemonFC | cause there's no Linux driver that can accelerate the video | May 18 12:37 |
| _Hicham_ | I use the open source source radeon | May 18 12:37 |
| DaemonFC | ATI cut off that chipset | May 18 12:37 |
| oiaohm | Not exaclty. | May 18 12:37 |
| DaemonFC | and the open source driver is worse than VESA | May 18 12:37 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 12:37 |
| _Hicham_ | it is working like a charm | May 18 12:37 |
| oiaohm | ATI cut of chip set on cards that there cards were losing in most tests on. | May 18 12:38 |
| _Hicham_ | proprietary driver isn't as good as radeon | May 18 12:38 |
| _Hicham_ | radeon driver rocks on my card | May 18 12:38 |
| DaemonFC | the proprietary ATI driver was the only one that ever did work | May 18 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Ie where the proprietary driver suxed. | May 18 12:38 |
| DaemonFC | on that chipset | May 18 12:38 |
| oiaohm | It depends on the ATI. | May 18 12:38 |
| _Hicham_ | radeon have been always improving | May 18 12:38 |
| _Hicham_ | now radeon is fully functional | May 18 12:38 |
| oiaohm | We are basically hat a halfway point with ATI cards. | May 18 12:39 |
| DaemonFC | well now that ATI ditched support for it.... | May 18 12:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it fully supports KMS | May 18 12:39 |
| DaemonFC | Vista works better on my laptop | May 18 12:39 |
| DaemonFC | than Linux :P | May 18 12:39 |
| oiaohm | That will change. | May 18 12:39 |
| DaemonFC | not that I would eagerly use it on there | May 18 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Halfway through a major conversion. | May 18 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Intel is having the same issue by the way. | May 18 12:39 |
| _Hicham_ | now I am not using any piece of proprietary software | May 18 12:39 |
| DaemonFC | well, it's like "What to do with an integrated chipset when the vendor yanks the driver and nothing that Linux has works?" | May 18 12:40 |
| _Hicham_ | except some firmwares | May 18 12:40 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : buy Linux Compatible Hardware | May 18 12:40 |
| _Hicham_ | it is your duty | May 18 12:40 |
| _Hicham_ | that is how you gonna help Linux | May 18 12:40 |
| DaemonFC | that's patchy | May 18 12:40 |
| DaemonFC | real patchy | May 18 12:40 |
| _Hicham_ | not by buying Windows only Hardware and say : Hey, Linux sucks | May 18 12:41 |
| _Hicham_ | it doesn't support my hardware | May 18 12:41 |
| DaemonFC | most hardware only works under Windows | May 18 12:41 |
| _Hicham_ | that is not sthg rational to say | May 18 12:41 |
| DaemonFC | unless you want to grab a tarball off a forum somewhere | May 18 12:41 |
| oiaohm | R100 and R200 cards from ATI works basicallly perfectly. R300 to R500 supprising Open source driver is more stable just not fully complete. | May 18 12:41 |
| _Hicham_ | not true | May 18 12:41 |
| DaemonFC | and try to compile a kernel module | May 18 12:41 |
| DaemonFC | that may work | May 18 12:41 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes | May 18 12:41 |
| _Hicham_ | you don't have to compile the kernel | May 18 12:41 |
| kentma | daemon: ah, okay. FF is hardly lightweight, that's for sure. | May 18 12:42 |
| _Hicham_ | there is only prebuilt binaries for you | May 18 12:42 |
| DaemonFC | well, Linux is not real great with a lot of devices, sorry, it's not | May 18 12:42 |
| DaemonFC | you plug them in and it takes 20 times the work to maybe get the thing to operate | May 18 12:42 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck those devices' vendors | May 18 12:42 |
| _Hicham_ | they are MS puppets | May 18 12:42 |
| kentma | daemonfc: most hardware doesn't run with windows. | May 18 12:42 |
| _Hicham_ | the users should have choice | May 18 12:42 |
| DaemonFC | well, there's like no support for entire ranges of hardware | May 18 12:42 |
| DaemonFC | like GPS devices | May 18 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Even windows is patchy in places. | May 18 12:43 |
| DaemonFC | and TV tuners | May 18 12:43 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows SUCKS with Hardware | May 18 12:43 |
| kentma | well, perhaps, but my mythtv's been working just fine for a loooong time .... | May 18 12:43 |
| kentma | Windows is awful for hardware support - most things don't work. | May 18 12:43 |
| DaemonFC | actually | May 18 12:43 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC just loves Windows | May 18 12:43 |
| DaemonFC | I plugged my GPS in | May 18 12:43 |
| DaemonFC | Windows grabs the driver | May 18 12:43 |
| _Hicham_ | and you expected it to work | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | I plug my game controller in | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | it finds the driver | May 18 12:44 |
| _Hicham_ | just like that? | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | I plug my TV card in | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | driver | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | bam! | May 18 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Plug the wrong one in hello failed boot. | May 18 12:44 |
| kentma | hahah! :-) | May 18 12:44 |
| _Hicham_ | so Windows is better? | May 18 12:44 |
| _Hicham_ | hahaha | May 18 12:44 |
| oiaohm | I always loved 2003 server. | May 18 12:44 |
| _Hicham_ | that is really great | May 18 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Dell server | May 18 12:44 |
| _Hicham_ | nice way to compare windows to linux | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | Linux is like "I'll tell you what it is but then you get to go google for a kernel module: | May 18 12:44 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 18 12:44 |
| oiaohm | reboot by insert right brand usb key. | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | "If one exists" | May 18 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's infuriating | May 18 12:44 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: that's just not correct, though, is it? | May 18 12:44 |
| oiaohm | There are not that many flash stick drivers. | May 18 12:45 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux have been focusing on more interesting areas | May 18 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | well, the point is that there's almost no integrated systems sold that you can just "put" Linux on | May 18 12:45 |
| kentma | Windows has a very narrow window of support for hardware, perhaps 2-3 years, no more, in most cases. | May 18 12:45 |
| _Hicham_ | but now, things are changing | May 18 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | because hardware support is missing | May 18 12:45 |
| _Hicham_ | most hardware is PnP | May 18 12:45 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 18 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the hardware you buy DaemonFC | May 18 12:46 |
| DaemonFC | Linux is more like Windows 98 with hardware | May 18 12:46 |
| _Hicham_ | really nice one DaemonFC | May 18 12:46 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahaha | May 18 12:46 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: HAHAH! are you drunk? | May 18 12:46 |
| DaemonFC | "Let me stick my thumb up my ass while you work this out" | May 18 12:46 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 12:46 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is experimenting his trolling techniques | May 18 12:46 |
| _Hicham_ | just go on | May 18 12:46 |
| _Hicham_ | it is fun | May 18 12:46 |
| oiaohm | By the way the same old sandisk usb key that works perfect in linux still makes windows 7 reboot. | May 18 12:47 |
| kentma | I think he's going to have to work on them... | May 18 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | yes, every operating system does something to piss you off | May 18 12:47 |
| *tacone (i=9750c5d9@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-39dbf691e2dccd6c) has joined #boycottnovell | May 18 12:47 | |
| kentma | I was reading about a guy called "parallax" yesterday. | May 18 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | but Linux is HARDWARE HWARDWARE and more HARDWARE issues | May 18 12:47 |
| oiaohm | Dieing just because you insert a usb key. | May 18 12:47 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why not work on Linux? | May 18 12:47 |
| oiaohm | I would prefer not working hardware to that. | May 18 12:47 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have skills? | May 18 12:47 |
| kentma | made a career out of promoting flat-earth (not oblate spheroid) as a fundamentalistic christian position. | May 18 12:47 |
| oiaohm | At least I am not playing russian rollette. | May 18 12:48 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks to Linux, I am now free | May 18 12:48 |
| _Hicham_ | no proprietary piece of software on my machine | May 18 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | I've never installed Linux to a system where everything worked | May 18 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Linux in number of operational drivers out numbers windows. | May 18 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | and I didn't have to manually support something | May 18 12:48 |
| _Hicham_ | to build Windows executables, I use mingw for Linux | May 18 12:49 |
| _Hicham_ | which rocks | May 18 12:49 |
| _Hicham_ | lets take one example | May 18 12:49 |
| _Hicham_ | what do say about XP support for SATA? | May 18 12:49 |
| oiaohm | Have any those machines been selected to run Linux DaemonFC. Funny enough lot of cases I have found part that lack Linux support also give trouble under windows. | May 18 12:50 |
| kentma | DaemonFC: it would be quite interesting to see which versions of windows & SPs support what hardware versions, released in which years, and in which combinations - some are mutually exclusive, afairc. | May 18 12:50 |
| _Hicham_ | XP doesn't support SATA, so XP sucks ! | May 18 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | XP supports SATA | May 18 12:50 |
| _Hicham_ | now? that is your reasoning Mr DaemonFC | May 18 12:50 |
| oiaohm | Not out box DaemonFC | May 18 12:50 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahaha | May 18 12:50 |
| kentma | XP's just very old. | May 18 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | yes it does | May 18 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | 2000 doesn't | May 18 12:50 |
| kentma | ancient, in fact. | May 18 12:50 |
| oiaohm | No it does. | May 18 12:50 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 18 12:50 |
| oiaohm | You will find that is bios emulation of PATA. | May 18 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | 2000 makes me stick in a driver disk | May 18 12:50 |
| oiaohm | So windows can install. | May 18 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | XP has the driver though | May 18 12:51 |
| _Hicham_ | XP too needs an install disk | May 18 12:51 |
| oiaohm | There are no SATA driver native on a XP disk. | May 18 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | yes there are | May 18 12:51 |
| oiaohm | You have to use a floppy disk. | May 18 12:51 |
| _Hicham_ | no, you must have disabled native SATA | May 18 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | XP has a collection of SATA drivers | May 18 12:51 |
| _Hicham_ | from the bios | May 18 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2003 has more | May 18 12:51 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: there is not one on a default disk. | May 18 12:51 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 18 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | yes there are | May 18 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Some oem made ones have extra drivers. | May 18 12:51 |
| _Hicham_ | really nice DaemonFC | May 18 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | you can easily see the inf files for them | May 18 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | and a listing of them if you nLite the ISO | May 18 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | then there's the part where it installs and works | May 18 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | that helps | May 18 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, XP doesn't support SATA, that's why my hard disk and my optical drives don't work | May 18 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 12:53 |
| oiaohm | I have had to add drivers with nlite to instal on sata. | May 18 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 18 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Reason no floppy drive. | May 18 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Have not had one for 8 years. | May 18 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | I deleted the floppy drier | May 18 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | *driver | May 18 12:54 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did u ever Windows 2000 and NT source codes? | May 18 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's on the pirate bay | May 18 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | not all of it | May 18 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | mainly networking | May 18 12:54 |
| _Hicham_ | did u see it? | May 18 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | what about it? | May 18 12:55 |
| _Hicham_ | If you have some basic C skills, you will quickly notice a lot of things | May 18 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | there's nothing particularly exciting and it's 10 years old or more | May 18 12:55 |
| _Hicham_ | Vista is based on it | May 18 12:55 |
| DaemonFC | actually Vista is quite a different system in many ways | May 18 12:56 |
| DaemonFC | the display driver model is new, the sound system is new | May 18 12:56 |
| oiaohm | Network stack in Vista is completely different. | May 18 12:56 |
| DaemonFC | NDIS 6 | May 18 12:56 |
| DaemonFC | quite a bit has been changed | May 18 12:56 |
| oiaohm | The TCP/IP stack is replaced. | May 18 12:56 |
| oiaohm | So after 12 years for being able to kill windows with a simple packet MS eventually fixed it. | May 18 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | so it's anyones guess as to how much of that leaked Win2k source is even applicable | May 18 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Win2K source code applies to XP. | May 18 12:57 |
| oiaohm | The leaked bits. | May 18 12:57 |
| oiaohm | About 95 percent is replaced in Vista. | May 18 12:57 |
| oiaohm | So basically useless. | May 18 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, XP wasn't all that different from 2000 | May 18 12:57 |
| DaemonFC | it was, but not majorly | May 18 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | mostly application compatibility shims and theming support | May 18 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | driver rollback | May 18 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | couple other things | May 18 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | but it was not a huge upgrade over Win2K | May 18 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | you could easily stay on 2000 and not miss much | May 18 12:58 |
| DaemonFC | XP was as much of a drawback as an upgrade | May 18 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | jsut cause of Product Activation and WGA | May 18 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 12:59 |
| oiaohm | XP removed the video protection. | May 18 12:59 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2000 didn't have that :) | May 18 12:59 |
| oiaohm | That Vista puts back. | May 18 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Windows 2000 had buffer auditing on video card accesses. | May 18 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | I liked Windows 2000 | May 18 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | it was fairly fast and minimal | May 18 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Reason why programs that would just crash under 2000 would blue screen under XP. | May 18 13:00 |
| oiaohm | XP traded stablity away for speed. | May 18 13:00 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I noticed a lot of apps that would bring down XP will not bring down Vista | May 18 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | you jsut end the process | May 18 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Same apps most likely will not bring down 2000 or 2003 | May 18 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Reason why 2003 was used a lot as a workstation. | May 18 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | I have 2003 and XP X64 (based on 2003) | May 18 13:01 |
| DaemonFC | they're both much better than XP | May 18 13:02 |
| oiaohm | No that has the speed up hacks. | May 18 13:02 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows 2000 sucks | May 18 13:02 |
| oiaohm | in the XP x64 | May 18 13:02 |
| _Hicham_ | that was one of the system that I hated the most | May 18 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Windows 2000 had a compadibley shim problem. | May 18 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Ie it did not work. | May 18 13:02 |
| oiaohm | for business 2000 was quite loved _Hicham_ | May 18 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | I used Windows 2000 as a gaming system | May 18 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | for quite some time | May 18 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | just cause it was so much faster than XP | May 18 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Old style 9x gamers hatted it. | May 18 13:03 |
| oiaohm | 2000 basically was loved and hated by different groups. | May 18 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Windows ME was mostly universally hated. | May 18 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 9x/Me are completely unrelated to Windows NT/2000/XP/Vista | May 18 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know why MS didn't just migrate everyone to NT | May 18 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | instead of making Windows 95 | May 18 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | because it wasn't complete yet | May 18 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | and it was breaking a lot of stuff | May 18 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | yeah it was | May 18 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | NT 4 | May 18 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | 1996 | May 18 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | just like Vista is breaking a lot of XP apps | May 18 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | with DEP | May 18 13:07 |
| DaemonFC | would have only been a year off | May 18 13:07 |
| DaemonFC | DEP is running the same as it did on XP | May 18 13:07 |
| DaemonFC | it's Windows services + OptIn | May 18 13:07 |
| DaemonFC | unless you enforce it | May 18 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Nice fun enable /PAE in windows. | May 18 13:07 |
| oiaohm | House of cards. | May 18 13:08 |
| DaemonFC | no reason to use PAE | May 18 13:08 |
| oiaohm | You have a 1 in 20 machine chance of it running. | May 18 13:08 |
| schestowitz | "Yeah, I doubt you were chosen at random. But I'd guess that the | May 18 13:08 |
| schestowitz | attackers are well-hidden behind bot-nets." | May 18 13:08 |
| DaemonFC | as in zombie machines? | May 18 13:09 |
| schestowitz | Yay. Server load is low again. | May 18 13:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2008/12/08/malicious-firefox-plugin/ | May 18 13:09 |
| schestowitz | I 'ran away' to the gym for a couple | May 18 13:09 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 18 13:09 |
| DaemonFC | yay | May 18 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox malware | May 18 13:10 |
| _Hicham_ | why not Firefox malware? | May 18 13:10 |
| _Hicham_ | it is user related | May 18 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | not Firefox related? | May 18 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | what can Mozilla do for ignorant users? | May 18 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | no different than Internet Explorer | May 18 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | apart warning them about unsigned plugins? | May 18 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | and malicious ActiveX | May 18 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | it is VERY DIFFERENT | May 18 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | IE have silent installs | May 18 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | depends on tricking the user | May 18 13:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Firefox do not | May 18 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | which apparently this is | May 18 13:12 |
| _Hicham_ | no silent installs in Firefox | May 18 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | well, how would you know? | May 18 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | they're silent | May 18 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Unleashes the Gartner Group to Sabotage Migration to GNU/Linux in Europe < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/gartner-group-vs-eu-linux/ > | May 18 13:12 |
| schestowitz | We rock and roll again. | May 18 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | _Hickem_: There's no silent installs in IE | May 18 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | cause *I* havent *heard* them | May 18 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | there is silent installs | May 18 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Active-x | May 18 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | and silent privilegies escalation | May 18 13:14 |
| oiaohm | There are more holes in active-x than you will find in swiss chesse. | May 18 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | ActiveX is not really all that bad compared to otehr plug in architectures | May 18 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | like Google Chrome do | May 18 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 18 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahahah | May 18 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | really nice DaemonFC | May 18 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Able to install even on IE 8 with user being told with active x DaemonFC | May 18 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | a bug in Flash player or VLC embedded in Firefox could be as bad | May 18 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | or worse | May 18 13:15 |
| tacone | silent privilege scalation ? | May 18 13:15 |
| oiaohm | A fault from 1998 | May 18 13:15 |
| oiaohm | At last flash does patch there holes. | May 18 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | the problem isn't ActiveX or any plugin architecture | May 18 13:16 |
| DaemonFC | it's that stupid shit like Flash does not respect a sandbox model | May 18 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the problem Mr Daemon? | May 18 13:16 |
| DaemonFC | so it undermines any security approach of aq browser | May 18 13:16 |
| oiaohm | On windows DaemonFC | May 18 13:16 |
| oiaohm | It does on Linux and Mac. | May 18 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | Force them to DeamonFC | May 18 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | by using swfdec or gnash | May 18 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahaha | May 18 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | Adobe makes crap | May 18 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Windows allows users to get fast run times but adding as sercice. | May 18 13:17 |
| oiaohm | So they do. | May 18 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | you are whining while you have choice | May 18 13:17 |
| oiaohm | So you end up with secuirty swiss cheese. | May 18 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | "Some dipshit made this document in PDF so you have to go download a 400 MB reader" | May 18 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why do u use Windows? | May 18 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | answer that question plz | May 18 13:17 |
| oiaohm | You cannot blame flash. | May 18 13:18 |
| oiaohm | MS did the same things with core parts of IE to make it faster. | May 18 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | IE is not fast | May 18 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Host says: "I have merged your ticket with the Abuse Notice in our Abuse/Security department. Please do not open a Support ticket for this issue but rather respond to this Abuse ticket." | May 18 13:18 |
| tacone | schestowitz just linked my blog and I can't read his article :-> | May 18 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Even so up until IE 7 parts of IE run as system user. | May 18 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Here's something that someone whom I will anonymise just sent: | May 18 13:18 |
| schestowitz | I should have added that I've had a lot of experience with people | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | trying to shut me up and discredit me since I first became a citizen | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | activist on the herbicide issue back in 1978. Anyone who believes that | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | multinational companies don't play down and dirty never called | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | bullshit on one effectively. | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Don't know if you have time to read, but I attach a paper my Ex and I | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | wrote in 1985 documenting an industry-inspired campaign to smear our | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | reputations that was carried out by law enforcement officials. The | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | bastard behind it, Ron Arnold, went on to draft the Republican | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | presidential election platform's environmental plank for Bush 1's | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | unsuccessful re-election campaign. But he was working for the Ag-Chem | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | industry at the time. | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Happened after that article was written, but we eventually won our | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | follow-up lawsuit and got the bullshit stopped. We also got a ruling | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | out of the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that when police | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | helicopters are flying so low that they're knocking the apples off | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | your trees, the limits of the 4th Amendment are transgressed. The Feds | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | settled after that ruling. | May 18 13:19 |
| oiaohm | nice if you find a exploit in there of coruse. | May 18 13:19 |
| tacone | i'll wait it to appear on appear on google reader | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Wish I could say that was the only time I had to cope with such | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | miscreants. But my experience with rattling industry cages is that | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | being on the receiving end of dirty tricks is the norm rather than the | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | exception, if you're good at rattling. Anonymous death threats, phone | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | taps, people jumping out of alleys to fire a flashbulb in your eyes, | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | being tailed more or less constantly, being libeled and slandered, | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | it's all just part of doing business to those corporate types. The one | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | thing that was uniformly true, however, is that they work through | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | proxies. I've managed to rip the lid off their hideyholes a few times | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | when they got too brazen. | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | But most of the time, I let the small crap go by because otherwise I | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | get sucked away from the reform work that caused them to aim the | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | proxies at you. E.g., I've got XXXXX and XXXXX dead to rights | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | for deliberately smearing my reputation with lies. But I'd have to set | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | aside my standards reform work to hack through all the lawyers who | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | would defend them. And in the end, XXXXXXXXXX would pay the damages rather | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | than them. It was a sucker punch, a tar baby to suck me off the reform | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | work, and I didn't draw to it. | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Keeping your eye on the ball and winning is the sweetest revenge for | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | such bullshit. Today's radical is tomorrow's establishment. | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | === | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | sorry for the flood | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | It's fascinating how they keep it low profile, though | May 18 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | FLOOD!!! | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | :-) Sorry | May 18 13:19 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I wrote it quickly, poorly | May 18 13:20 |
| schestowitz | All in a hurry, no images | May 18 13:20 |
| tacone | please someone kill me before the flood does | May 18 13:20 |
| schestowitz | But we're just trying to keep up. A shame really... I could make very strong posts with what I have | May 18 13:20 |
| tacone | schestowitz: what's up with the server load ? | May 18 13:20 |
| tacone | i can't check it myself, as I'm blacklisted (guess it's the phone connection) | May 18 13:21 |
| schestowitz | tacone: maybe you got wrongly blacklisted | May 18 13:21 |
| *DaemonFC makes a PDF out of that and makes an NRG disc image and RARs it and sends it to schestowitz | May 18 13:21 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Seems likely. Server load is OK | May 18 13:21 |
| tacone | schestowitz: i'm connecting from 3g | May 18 13:21 |
| schestowitz | sorry, tacone | May 18 13:21 |
| tacone | it's normal to be blacklisted, i guess tessier is playing safe. and it's good of him doing that. | May 18 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Better false positives than being offline altogether | May 18 13:22 |
| tacone | don't take action on that, it's ok. i can read via google reader. | May 18 13:22 |
| schestowitz | tessier does fantastic job | May 18 13:22 |
| tacone | and i'll get my connection back in days. so no worry | May 18 13:22 |
| oiaohm | Its reallly annoying wordpress guys new of fault 6 years ago schestowitz | May 18 13:22 |
| schestowitz | brb phone | May 18 13:22 |
| oiaohm | How many locations do you connect from schestowitz | May 18 13:22 |
| kentma | tacone: isn't 3G somewhat pricey for this? | May 18 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Would not be in luck and it be a static IP. | May 18 13:23 |
| kentma | schestowitz: interesting read, your flood :-) | May 18 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 18 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | Nero uses ribbon menus | May 18 13:24 |
| tacone | schestowitz: what nobody pointed out about the eu affair | May 18 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/37/Nero_Burning_ROM.png | May 18 13:24 |
| tacone | is they're giving up on linux because migrating away from ms office is HARD | May 18 13:24 |
| kentma | tacone: only if you want it to be. | May 18 13:25 |
| tacone | easier to pay the prison's rent than escape the jail | May 18 13:25 |
| schestowitz | kentma: you don't know? | May 18 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 18 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't know Winamp could encode to Windows Media | May 18 13:27 |
| kentma | schestowitz: know what? | May 18 13:27 |
| schestowitz | It's just BN (that delivers about a million pages a month) which has been under DDOS attack for 4 days now. I have spoken to the British police about this DDOS attack and they suggested that I let the host redirect the complaint via the Web host. Anyway, it has been taking up a lot of time and caused stress. | May 18 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 13:27 |
| kentma | schestowitz: aha, I see | May 18 13:27 |
| schestowitz | I hear it's usually done at some stage | May 18 13:27 |
| kentma | obviously, BN is far too successful. | May 18 13:28 |
| kentma | things are getting nasty now. | May 18 13:28 |
| schestowitz | I guess that if people try to shut me up so miserably by resorting to Internet crime, then it means the work has great impact. | May 18 13:28 |
| kentma | indeed so. | May 18 13:28 |
| schestowitz | They use it in antitrust | May 18 13:28 |
| schestowitz | But they won't cite the source | May 18 13:28 |
| tacone | i guess I will post about the dos | May 18 13:28 |
| schestowitz | A few do. Like IBM and Red Hat people | May 18 13:28 |
| schestowitz | They also cite Groklaw | May 18 13:28 |
| tacone | i'm still undecided | May 18 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Like... in court motions and documents to the commission | May 18 13:29 |
| schestowitz | That's why I pondered changing site name | May 18 13:29 |
| oiaohm | http://www.reubenyau.com/protecting-the-wordpress-wp-admin-folder/ << schestowitz basically ip lock the wp_admin folder. There is no way in wordpress to move that folder to another location. | May 18 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Simpley and be able to update without headaches. | May 18 13:29 |
| tacone | a way exists | May 18 13:29 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: what if I access from another IP? | May 18 13:30 |
| tacone | try http://www.stefanoforenza.com/wp-admin/ | May 18 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Like when I got locked out? | May 18 13:30 |
| tacone | by the way, moving the folder on another location is worthless btw. | May 18 13:30 |
| tacone | i'd protect it with an additional http password | May 18 13:30 |
| *zer0c00l is now known as saga | May 18 13:30 | |
| *saga is now known as zer0c00l | May 18 13:31 | |
| oiaohm | I was not thinking of that tacone | May 18 13:31 |
| tacone | two password to surpass. and the http password request is very light. | May 18 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Send schestowitz the instructions to set it up tacone. | May 18 13:31 |
| schestowitz | Thanks | May 18 13:31 |
| oiaohm | All the attacks have been targeted against wp-admin | May 18 13:32 |
| tacone | also if you fear brute force the most easy thing is adding a sleep(2) somewhere in the login code | May 18 13:32 |
| tacone | yeah ? | May 18 13:32 |
| tacone | did they attacked wp-admin ? | May 18 13:32 |
| oiaohm | That is how they were creatign the server load tacone. | May 18 13:32 |
| tacone | i guess they did with index.php | May 18 13:32 |
| tacone | i didn't see all the logs, though. | May 18 13:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: attack on BN?? | May 18 13:33 |
| tacone | schestowitz: is that true ? did they try to brute force your wp-admin ? | May 18 13:33 |
| schestowitz | I don't think so | May 18 13:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: see what tessier posted here | May 18 13:33 |
| schestowitz | The logs he showed had my IP | May 18 13:33 |
| oiaohm | I saw tessier tracking logs. | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | I did too | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | My IPs | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | It's the ajax UI | May 18 13:34 |
| tacone | can I see the logs ? | May 18 13:34 |
| oiaohm | I miss read them schestowitz. | May 18 13:34 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 18 13:34 | |
| schestowitz | yes | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I saw it | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | WP has a new feature | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | it polls the server | May 18 13:34 |
| schestowitz | Ajax | May 18 13:35 |
| schestowitz | That's my Web browser being open all night | May 18 13:35 |
| schestowitz | With the compose screen | May 18 13:35 |
| schestowitz | brb shower | May 18 13:35 |
| tacone | bye | May 18 13:35 |
| oiaohm | The catch to logs at times. | May 18 13:36 |
| oiaohm | You can read them two way. | May 18 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Still the best defence around the key points is still worth it if these guys try a different path. | May 18 13:37 |
| *DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | May 18 13:39 | |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, well | May 18 13:39 |
| DaemonFC | I managed to get SeaMonkey to read RSS | May 18 13:39 |
| DaemonFC | by adding a Firefox extension :) | May 18 13:40 |
| zer0c00l | FUD? http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.html | May 18 13:47 |
| zer0c00l | linked from http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/18/071020 | May 18 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Troll headline | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Seems like FUD | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | See domain name | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | See buttons at the bottom | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Like a placement for FUD | May 18 13:49 |
| zer0c00l | :D | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | I hear from Linux companies that MS is nervous, so it runs smears now | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Watch out | May 18 13:49 |
| schestowitz | This isn't paranoid stuff. it's companies that say this. | May 18 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | 0. Valid concern 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 Pulseaudio fixes provided the distrobution sets it right, Fedora and Mandriva do | May 18 13:54 |
| DaemonFC | 2.1 KDE has proven that to be true going from QT 3 to 4 | May 18 13:54 |
| DaemonFC | and you have to have both runtimes installed currently | May 18 13:54 |
| DaemonFC | 2.2 Applies to Windows XP or earlier and Vista if you aren't using Aero | May 18 13:55 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of this goes onto vague padding | May 18 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | 3.1 is a decent concern | May 18 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | 3.2 is obvious | May 18 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | 3.3 would certainly beg for virus problems | May 18 13:57 |
| DaemonFC | who the hell wrote this? | May 18 13:57 |
| DaemonFC | Sounds like something from a 10 year old | May 18 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Some site that create subsites for FUD. | May 18 13:58 |
| DaemonFC | parroting other peoples bitch lists | May 18 13:58 |
| schestowitz | You mean, shill lists? | May 18 13:58 |
| schestowitz | or FUD handbooks | May 18 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Mind you, Microosft has those | May 18 13:58 |
| DaemonFC | they look like cut and paste complaints | May 18 13:58 |
| DaemonFC | well I suppose Microsoft has people that can spell? | May 18 13:59 |
| DaemonFC | or is that asking too much? | May 18 13:59 |
| DaemonFC | 5.3 webcams aren't a problem any more | May 18 13:59 |
| DaemonFC | TV tuners are a major pain in the ass | May 18 13:59 |
| DaemonFC | thre's some truth to some of this, but he's gone out of his way to make 95% of it filler | May 18 14:00 |
| tacone | weird it doesn't talk about wireless drivers | May 18 14:00 |
| tacone | ops that's solved. | May 18 14:00 |
| tacone | in a year the sound won't be an issue anymore, they'll have to pick up something else. | May 18 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | My webcam works great with Linux | May 18 14:01 |
| DaemonFC | 9.1 doesn't even tell you how he timed OpenOffice or MS Office starting | May 18 14:01 |
| zer0c00l | tacone, may be he wont use wireless | May 18 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a 4 years old | May 18 14:01 |
| DaemonFC | or how fast each was | May 18 14:01 |
| _Hicham_ | and I have been tracking its driver development since 2008 | May 18 14:02 |
| _Hicham_ | there was no specs | May 18 14:02 |
| DaemonFC | 10. CLI (command line interface) errors for user applications (see clause 4.). All GUI applications should have a visible errors presentation. | May 18 14:02 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 18 14:02 |
| _Hicham_ | its driver was developed blindly | May 18 14:02 |
| _Hicham_ | now it works | May 18 14:02 |
| DaemonFC | do you really want to see EVERY message something prints? | May 18 14:02 |
| zer0c00l | LOL m$ is pushing IE8 as an update :P, just tried to update in my VM | May 18 14:02 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt that | May 18 14:02 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 18 14:02 |
| DaemonFC | I have IE 8 | May 18 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft to Offer IE for Linux | May 18 14:03 |
| zer0c00l | :) | May 18 14:03 |
| DaemonFC | don't use it but it's not a great idea to leave old versions of it laying around | May 18 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | IE development uses GTKmm | May 18 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahahaha | May 18 14:03 |
| tacone | it will be an hard time for all that corporate intranets based on ie 5.5 | May 18 14:03 |
| _Hicham_ | MFC is to be dropped | May 18 14:04 |
| DaemonFC | that's a lot of why XP is infected so much more than Vista I'm sure | May 18 14:04 |
| DaemonFC | it defaults to IE 6 | May 18 14:04 |
| *DaemonFC pukes | May 18 14:04 | |
| zer0c00l | www.saveie6.com | May 18 14:04 |
| zer0c00l | :P | May 18 14:04 |
| _Hicham_ | and replaced by GTKmm | May 18 14:04 |
| DaemonFC | meh, I used IE for a while | May 18 14:04 |
| DaemonFC | a long time ago | May 18 14:04 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u use now? | May 18 14:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Opera? | May 18 14:04 |
| _Hicham_ | Google Chrome? | May 18 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | for a while it was better than most others | May 18 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | SeaMonkey :D | May 18 14:05 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahaha | May 18 14:05 |
| *mib_vund60 (i=60e61d14@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-915d1aeaac1b1b13) has joined #boycottnovell | May 18 14:05 | |
| *zer0c00l goes back and deletes IE from the list | May 18 14:05 | |
| _Hicham_ | and you are whining about Mozilla's products | May 18 14:05 |
| *mib_vund60 has quit (Client Quit) | May 18 14:05 | |
| DaemonFC | well, before Mozilla 0.9 creashing was the only thing any Mozilla product did reliably | May 18 14:05 |
| zer0c00l | who needs that junk anymore ? | May 18 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | *crashing | May 18 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 14:06 |
| tacone | lol nice website | May 18 14:06 |
| DaemonFC | I liked Mozilla Suite | May 18 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Notice lot of the chatter is changing from Linux will never be the desktop. To what is missing. | May 18 14:06 |
| DaemonFC | SeaMonkey is Mozilla Suite renamed | May 18 14:06 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:06 |
| *DaemonFC signs the Save IE 6 petition | May 18 14:07 | |
| _Hicham_ | you like SeaMonkey and hate Firefox? | May 18 14:07 |
| tacone | lol, it was a an april fool but MS believed it was true and pimped it | May 18 14:08 |
| tacone | http://twitter.com/damncabbage/statuses/1833246674 | May 18 14:08 |
| zer0c00l | LOL, after de-selecting IE8 , now it warns me "IMPORTANT : You've hidden important updates" | May 18 14:08 |
| zer0c00l | and when i clicked "restore them now" it shows IE8 | May 18 14:08 |
| zer0c00l | they are tricking the people to install IE | May 18 14:09 |
| zer0c00l | poor microsoft | May 18 14:09 |
| tacone | well, it's important. | May 18 14:09 |
| tacone | it can almost do acid2. that's important. | May 18 14:09 |
| tacone | webdevs are wasting a lot of time on ie7 | May 18 14:10 |
| tacone | and they wasted even more on ie6. | May 18 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft: Please support IE 6 a little while longer. The writers of Klez, Zlob, and Vundo need more time to port to IE 8. | May 18 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | Why should users have to use "Compatibility View when they can just use IE 6 and see the web the way it was meant to be fucked up? | May 18 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | I beseech you! | May 18 14:10 |
| DaemonFC | -Me | May 18 14:10 |
| Comments are alive http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/gartner-group-vs-eu-linux/comment-page-1/#comment-63542 | May 18 14:10 | |
| LOL on compatibility mode | May 18 14:10 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.saveie6.com/petition.php | May 18 14:10 |
| tacone | lol, me can't read them. anything special in there ? | May 18 14:10 |
| *tacone signes Save Windows Me petition | May 18 14:11 | |
| oh, is the spoof IE only? | May 18 14:11 | |
| that would make it perfect. | May 18 14:11 | |
| *zer0c00l signs nuke microsoft petition :D | May 18 14:11 | |
| _Hicham_ | this is the best petition site | May 18 14:11 |
| _Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 18 14:11 |
| _Hicham_ | should I sign it too? | May 18 14:11 |
| tacone | which ? | May 18 14:11 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Yes I like SeaMonkey | May 18 14:12 |
| DaemonFC | Blake Ross is the Wesley Crusher of Mozilla Corp | May 18 14:12 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:12 |
| There's a nice little html index page in the root partition of DSL. When you load it with IE, it's title is "Why are you still running Windows?" | May 18 14:12 | |
| it then gives you instructions to boot DSL. | May 18 14:12 | |
| oiaohm | More should be are you insane twitter. | May 18 14:13 |
| parse grammar, Ohm, I do not understand. | May 18 14:13 | |
| oiaohm | The DSL page why are you running windows. Running IE should more are you insane. | May 18 14:14 |
| Hugs, Ohm. | May 18 14:14 | |
| If you believe Net Applications 99% of the world is insane. | May 18 14:15 | |
| DaemonFC | Used by 97.34% of all internet users according to a onestat survey released July 28, 2003. | May 18 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 18 14:15 |
| A guy who used to work for M$ admins the computers where I work, so IE is the only browser there. | May 18 14:15 | |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla 3.5beta4 is still slow because of the debug-info | May 18 14:15 |
| It's some kind of M$ cult thing. I leave the computers alone and use them. | May 18 14:16 | |
| _Hicham_ | It is practically stable | May 18 14:16 |
| They don't work so well, too bad. | May 18 14:16 | |
| _Hicham_ | like Thunderbird 3.0beta2 | May 18 14:16 |
| _Hicham_ | who is running Firefox 3.5beta4 in here? | May 18 14:16 |
| tacone | uhm | May 18 14:19 |
| tacone | linux chromium is catching on | May 18 14:19 |
| tacone | i'm starting to receive visits with it | May 18 14:19 |
| Lenny came with a version of 3.0 when I installed it. That's where it still is. I prefer Konq and treat Iceweasel like I treated IE on Windows - something that talks to difficult M$ oriented sites. | May 18 14:19 | |
| tacone | 19 visits on may 16th | May 18 14:19 |
| DaemonFC | according to Net Applications, IE is down t o65.95% | May 18 14:19 |
| ha ha | May 18 14:19 | |
| they have less than 2/3rds of the market even when they lie about it. | May 18 14:20 | |
| oiaohm | It depends where you look to. | May 18 14:20 |
| oiaohm | some sites are the exact mirror ro Net applications. | May 18 14:20 |
| tacone | going offline | May 18 14:20 |
| tacone | good bye | May 18 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Firefox on top IE losing. | May 18 14:20 |
| sure at insane places, like where I work, it's M$ city. | May 18 14:20 | |
| DaemonFC | Onestat says 79% for IE | May 18 14:21 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 14:21 |
| oiaohm | The browser numbers are like rubber. | May 18 14:21 |
| Sweatty B Loves That Number. | May 18 14:21 | |
| oiaohm | Firefox turns up less on ad based numbers. | May 18 14:21 |
| oiaohm | For the more expected reason. | May 18 14:22 |
| because FF users avoid ad heavy shit sites? | May 18 14:22 | |
| oiaohm | adblock | May 18 14:22 |
| and because IE's default page is M$N. | May 18 14:22 | |
| oiaohm | Most firefox users install it by default with auto updating filters. | May 18 14:22 |
| I have seen people actually using M$N. | May 18 14:23 | |
| They seem to like it as their home page. | May 18 14:23 | |
| oiaohm | M$N is a bias. | May 18 14:23 |
| obviously. | May 18 14:23 | |
| talk about corporate controlled news. | May 18 14:23 | |
| but we digress | May 18 14:23 | |
| oiaohm | Site base numbers have Firefox lot higher. | May 18 14:23 |
| oiaohm | some sites are insane with Firefox at 95 percent. | May 18 14:24 |
| *DaemonFC has an email address at Live | May 18 14:24 | |
| *tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 18 14:24 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:24 |
| Any honest and useful site will show good GNU/Linux use as well as browser diversity | May 18 14:24 | |
| DaemonFC | SeaMonkey's mail client can access it too | May 18 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Problem is we don't have enough site based numbers. | May 18 14:24 |
| DaemonFC | Live/Hotmail now lets you use POP3 | May 18 14:24 |
| It's only a problem if you listen to M$. | May 18 14:25 | |
| oiaohm | I wish google was still releasing there numbers. | May 18 14:25 |
| Google gets spammed. | May 18 14:25 | |
| any single site can have it's numbers shifted that way, but it's a losing battle. | May 18 14:25 | |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_shell | May 18 14:26 |
| M$ is losing it's perception management war. | May 18 14:26 | |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:26 |
| and perception management is the only thing propping up Windows. | May 18 14:26 | |
| oiaohm | As linux appears more and more in bioses it will be less avoidable. | May 18 14:27 |
| oiaohm | Linux is in a slow but targeted war. | May 18 14:27 |
| It's more a matter of OEMs and vendors escaping punishment. | May 18 14:27 | |
| That GNU/Linux shows up at all indicates that M$ has lost it's grip. EEE PC and friends are the end of their rule. | May 18 14:28 | |
| oiaohm | The audio and video editing sides blender will be taking up. | May 18 14:28 |
| It's just a matter who's going to survive the shift. | May 18 14:28 | |
| oiaohm | Blender has worked out how to get funding in areas where it was though impossiable. | May 18 14:29 |
| Retail OEMs that stick with Vista have already failed. | May 18 14:29 | |
| oiaohm | Its so simple make the tool produce sellable grade product. | May 18 14:29 |
| If the established hardware makers don't move they will be beaten out by firms in China. | May 18 14:29 | |
| oiaohm | That will bring interest and funding. | May 18 14:30 |
| They can't stand forever behind idiots who say things like, "nothing good has ever come from the internet," for example. | May 18 14:30 | |
| oiaohm | Linux won the super war. | May 18 14:30 |
| oiaohm | Linux is winning the embeded war. | May 18 14:31 |
| oiaohm | The business servers and desktop still has to be fort. | May 18 14:31 |
| http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/16/1825244 Sony is insane. | May 18 14:31 | |
| oiaohm | I know. | May 18 14:31 |
| GNU/Linux is winning the desktop war. | May 18 14:32 | |
| oiaohm | Who else would have DRM there audio cd's that bad that they did not work in most players twitter. | May 18 14:32 |
| With Dell and HP offering netbooks, that's about it. | May 18 14:32 | |
| oiaohm | Not winning. | May 18 14:32 |
| oiaohm | Playing on the edges. | May 18 14:32 |
| yes winning | May 18 14:32 | |
| that it exists on the edge shows that M$ has lost it's ability to punish. | May 18 14:32 | |
| oiaohm | Edges have done damage. | May 18 14:33 |
| oiaohm | Nothing like the blood Linux can still draw when it truly starts winning. | May 18 14:33 |
| other firms will enter the market with cheaper and better hardware that does not crash all the time or crap out with viruses. | May 18 14:33 | |
| oiaohm | How well does Linux intergrate into lots of business networks out there twitter. | May 18 14:34 |
| oiaohm | As a client OS. | May 18 14:34 |
| Works great as a fork lift replacement. | May 18 14:34 | |
| oiaohm | Not very. So its range is still limited. | May 18 14:34 |
| Money is saved almost imediately. | May 18 14:34 | |
| Android and other pocket PCs will be the place GNU/Linux sweeps Desktops away. | May 18 14:34 | |
| oiaohm | Once that range opens up more then we will see more blood. | May 18 14:35 |
| From there, people will demand it at work. | May 18 14:35 | |
| oiaohm | Then we will be in a war. | May 18 14:35 |
| Then the war will be over. | May 18 14:35 | |
| oiaohm | Linux guys have seen enough that there is a chance of a full blow war. | May 18 14:35 |
| oiaohm | Current is really just testing water. | May 18 14:35 |
| It's already at the end because M$ is imploding. They depend on monopoly margins to maintain their bribery and lie machine. | May 18 14:36 | |
| oiaohm | That ms is being harmed just by Linux testing water is scary for MS. | May 18 14:36 |
| Without money, M$ loses perception management and it's over. | May 18 14:36 | |
| oiaohm | Linux has tested the water many times. | May 18 14:36 |
| oiaohm | This time it did damage. | May 18 14:36 |
| No, it's a matter of people realizing what shit Windows really is. Vista did that. | May 18 14:36 | |
| M$ won't recover this time. | May 18 14:37 | |
| oiaohm | Linux forced MS to cut prices. | May 18 14:37 |
| People are ignoring old media. | May 18 14:37 | |
| oiaohm | Without that MS would have just gone on status normal. | May 18 14:37 |
| oiaohm | Like they did with windows ME. | May 18 14:37 |
| M$'s old media investments have failed them. | May 18 14:37 | |
| It's a matter of money. | May 18 14:38 | |
| oiaohm | Linux is good enough now hardware companies can force price of Windows licences down on some products. | May 18 14:38 |
| GNU/Linux has been "good enough" for ten years. | May 18 14:38 | |
| oiaohm | But its not good enough for all markets to have a full blown war. | May 18 14:38 |
| People as simply fed up. | May 18 14:38 | |
| oiaohm | MS worked one thing out early. | May 18 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Intergration. | May 18 14:39 |
| The longer M$ wins, the more expensive it is for them to lie. | May 18 14:39 | |
| It's a game they have already lost. | May 18 14:39 | |
| oiaohm | KDE is starting down that path. | May 18 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Gnome is part way down that path. | May 18 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Application_Suite | May 18 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:39 |
| M$ never integrated squat. Non free software can't really inetgrate - it's a snake pit of companies that will never trust each other. | May 18 14:40 | |
| oiaohm | Free software with free software. | May 18 14:40 |
| M$ has bought tons of code they don't have resources to maintain. | May 18 14:40 | |
| oiaohm | Does not have to be with MS products. | May 18 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Common mistake. | May 18 14:40 |
| KDE 3.5 has better integration with itself, and Gnome than M$ will ever have with itself or the internet. | May 18 14:41 | |
| oiaohm | MS office to sharepoint there crms ... OpenOffice and Koffice still don't link up that great. | May 18 14:41 |
| KDE 4 is moving to integrate social networking while M$ hopelessly flounders with the internet and office formats. | May 18 14:42 | |
| oiaohm | social networking is a important step forward. | May 18 14:42 |
| Sharepoint is pointless | May 18 14:42 | |
| oiaohm | Yet a lot of business use it for many things. | May 18 14:42 |
| Every one of those deployments would be better off with what Red Hat has. | May 18 14:43 | |
| oiaohm | social networking of KDE could well and truly out do sharepoint. | May 18 14:43 |
| yes, it's the next level of computer use | May 18 14:43 | |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4 is a clusterfuck | May 18 14:43 |
| harvesting community | May 18 14:43 | |
| DaemonFC | a total unabated disaster | May 18 14:43 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: reviewers of 4.3 lot of them are changing mind. | May 18 14:43 |
| only when you run it on Windows, eh FC. | May 18 14:44 | |
| oiaohm | Reviewers that completely hated 4.0 4.1 4.2 by the way. | May 18 14:44 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.x is what happens when marketing team and developers get on two different paths. | May 18 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | Kubuntu had to use a brain dead IRC client that thinks it's an SQL database to find one that works with QT 4 libs | May 18 14:44 |
| I don't know how well KDE 4 is really doing but I do know that the infrastructure has significant improvements and I expect great things from KDE. | May 18 14:45 | |
| DaemonFC | cause KDE is too fat to shove on one disc if you include the needed libraries to run QT3 apps | May 18 14:45 |
| really? | May 18 14:45 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 18 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | it's pathetic | May 18 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | I tell everyone to just use GNOME and be happy | May 18 14:45 |
| oiaohm | Its a transition. | May 18 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | because KDE has a total pooch screw | May 18 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:46 |
| Gnome makes me nuts. | May 18 14:46 | |
| oiaohm | Gnome last major transition from GTK 1 to GTK2 was heavy. | May 18 14:46 |
| KDE 3.5 is still sane. | May 18 14:46 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, holding back on the version from 2001? | May 18 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | What are you, an XP user? | May 18 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | or trying to emulate them? | May 18 14:46 |
| oiaohm | Why not. | May 18 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Most users stay with what works until the new works. | May 18 14:47 |
| KDE 3.5, from 2001, is something Windows 7 can't touch. | May 18 14:47 | |
| That shows you how bad the gap between free and non free software is. | May 18 14:47 | |
| DaemonFC | if your "free software" project is so botched that your users are holding out on abandonware that was your last good version | May 18 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | do you take the hint? | May 18 14:47 |
| I expect KDE 4 to widen that gap. | May 18 14:47 | |
| DaemonFC | or keep fucking up? | May 18 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | KDE seems to be continuing to fuck up | May 18 14:48 |
| oiaohm | KDE 3.5 is still maintained and patched. | May 18 14:48 |
| *MinceR is using kde4 with gnome-panel currently :> | May 18 14:48 | |
| DaemonFC | my condolences | May 18 14:48 |
| You use Vista, FC. | May 18 14:48 | |
| oiaohm | KDE4 hit many problems. | May 18 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | May 18 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | and even Vista isn't as unstable as KDE 4.anything | May 18 14:48 |
| oiaohm | Number 1 DRI2 support is way late. | May 18 14:48 |
| so you should be able to put up with any old shit. | May 18 14:49 | |
| oiaohm | Have you used last of 4.2 and the beta of 4.3 | May 18 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | no, KDE crashes more than Vista | May 18 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | or XP | May 18 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Main reason I don't is memory usage. | May 18 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Not crashes | May 18 14:49 |
| sorry to hear that for you, FC. | May 18 14:49 | |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4 = System fall down, go boom | May 18 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | a lot | May 18 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Not reallly. | May 18 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Disable desktop effects it supprisingly stable. | May 18 14:50 |
| My world is reliable. | May 18 14:50 | |
| MinceR | not really -- plasma crashes if you try to use it heavily, but otherwise it isn't that bad. | May 18 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Me was more stable than KDE 4 | May 18 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 14:50 |
| Well, you could always run that on some 2001 hardware. | May 18 14:50 | |
| MinceR | i've switched because compiz crashed a lot | May 18 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Me with 400 instances of IE 5.5 | May 18 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | would be more stable than KDE 4 | May 18 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 14:51 |
| oiaohm | KDE4 was designed for DRI 2. | May 18 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Running on DRI 2 its memory usage drops massivelly. | May 18 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Stablitly also increases massivelly. | May 18 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | I just call KDE 4 a Vista wannabe | May 18 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | cause that's precisely what it is | May 18 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Its not reallly. | May 18 14:51 |
| I don't think you got to run it long enough to judge, FC. | May 18 14:52 | |
| DaemonFC | it's clear they were trying to clone Windows Vista | May 18 14:52 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4 never expected DRI2 to be delayed by 18 months. | May 18 14:52 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about. | May 18 14:52 |
| MinceR | but that's no news. | May 18 14:52 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4 layout screen shots predate Vista changing it look to be like KDE 4. | May 18 14:52 |
| oiaohm | So coping is the other way. | May 18 14:52 |
| MinceR | if there's anything kde4 is trying to clone, it's compiz | May 18 14:52 |
| ha ha | May 18 14:52 | |
| DaemonFC | I wish that people would just pretend KDE 4 never happened | May 18 14:53 |
| oiaohm | More like why did vista copy broken design of KDE 4. | May 18 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | it's still scaring people back to Windows | May 18 14:53 |
| Let me know when Vista 7 has reasonable window management. | May 18 14:53 | |
| oiaohm | And push it on there users. | May 18 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Woot 3d effects | May 18 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Opps snap. | May 18 14:53 |
| Still happy with E16, thanks | May 18 14:54 | |
| That's the nice thing about free software. You can chose your interface instead of having it bolted on and shoved down your throat with hardware breakage. | May 18 14:54 | |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4's user interface is like a badly packed suitcase that you have to sit on to get it shut | May 18 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | that's exactly how it feels | May 18 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | it feels like you're driving a tank | May 18 14:55 |
| schestowitz | EU Web site is down | May 18 14:55 |
| schestowitz | I have something that tacone would love to see | May 18 14:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=WQ&reference=E-2008-1486&language=EN | May 18 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | the user interface should be enough to look good and get you through your tasks | May 18 14:55 |
| I'd like to see something other than FC crow about how cool Vista is. | May 18 14:55 | |
| DaemonFC | but KDE even tries to copy the new Windows start menu | May 18 14:56 |
| backwards again FC. You know M$ never invented anything useful | May 18 14:56 | |
| MinceR | at least kde4 manages to set the mouse cursor theme correctly, unlike gnome :> | May 18 14:56 |
| DaemonFC | yay, mouse cursor, so that when you hammer on it to try to get Dolphin to unfreeze | May 18 14:57 |
| you know all about that don't you Mincer? | May 18 14:57 | |
| DaemonFC | you have something pretty to look at? | May 18 14:57 |
| DaemonFC | when y ou can feel your carotid arteries pulsating | May 18 14:57 |
| my E16 desktop is pretty al day. | May 18 14:57 | |
| MinceR | i've never seen dolphin freeze | May 18 14:57 |
| DaemonFC | and you know the system is going to die | May 18 14:57 |
| Vista is dead, even M$ says so. | May 18 14:57 | |
| schestowitz | A journalist is thinking of writing up a story about the attack and Boycott Novell. | May 18 14:57 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: perhaps you should try running it on reliable hardware :> | May 18 14:58 |
| cool | May 18 14:58 | |
| DaemonFC | I have reliable hardware | May 18 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4 is the only thing that's really given me problems | May 18 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | as far as GUIs | May 18 14:58 |
| DaemonFC report, "Pigs fly well but I can't get my Xwing off the ground." | May 18 14:59 | |
| Something is wrong with the Source in this one. | May 18 15:00 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the Force Close wasn't with me | May 18 15:00 |
| DaemonFC | KDE wins again | May 18 15:00 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | May 18 15:00 |
| use the mighty ctrl-alt-del keystoke that "Bill made famous" | May 18 15:01 | |
| DaemonFC | if they wanted to smear Linux they could just ship those netbooks with KDE | May 18 15:01 |
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| DaemonFC | and let the horrified users do it themselves | May 18 15:01 |
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| DaemonFC | it's what I'd do if I was Microsoft | May 18 15:01 |
| MinceR | or they could just ship them with gnome | May 18 15:01 |
| "In invented it but Bill made it famous." said the man who invented the emergency boot keystroke. | May 18 15:01 | |
| MinceR | i mean | May 18 15:01 |
| MinceR | or they could just ship them with suse | May 18 15:01 |
| Ick. | May 18 15:02 | |
| Suse will be completely defeated when it ships with Gnome as a default. | May 18 15:02 | |
| I tried Gnome again the other day. It's default settings drive me wild. It's only marginally better than Windows because it has virtual desktops thanks to X11. | May 18 15:03 | |
| DaemonFC | The fact that they focus on KDE was what turned me off | May 18 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | before they even signed any deal with Microsoft | May 18 15:04 |
| Why, KDE is so Windows like? | May 18 15:04 | |
| DaemonFC | no, it's like third world Haitian Vista | May 18 15:04 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 15:04 |
| If you like Vista and Windows 7, you should love KDE. | May 18 15:04 | |
| KDE is what windows should have become. | May 18 15:05 | |
| but did not. | May 18 15:05 | |
| and never will be. | May 18 15:05 | |
| gotta go FC, keep booting! | May 18 15:05 | |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | May 18 15:05 |
| DaemonFC | I've always preferred GNOME | May 18 15:05 |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | May 18 15:06 | |
| DaemonFC | but KDE 4 had me wondering if they all smoke crack | May 18 15:06 |
| oiaohm | I have moved between a few different windows mangers. | May 18 15:06 |
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| oiaohm | When KDE 4.0 was released I knew not to touch it with a ten foot pole. | May 18 15:06 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.1 was kinda panic. | May 18 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | something possessed me to poke at it again | May 18 15:07 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4 line has a complete plan. | May 18 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | with 4.2.2 | May 18 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | kind of sorry I looked | May 18 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 15:07 |
| oiaohm | But there are limitations you have to be aware of with 4.2.2 | May 18 15:07 |
| oiaohm | I guess you enabled the desktop effects. | May 18 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | with or without them it sucks | May 18 15:08 |
| DaemonFC | Compiz runs dandy | May 18 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Fastest way to end up with 4.2.2 crashing. | May 18 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Compiz is depending on opengl hooking. | May 18 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Ie opengl hacking. | May 18 15:08 |
| oiaohm | KDE is not. | May 18 15:08 |
| *DaemonFC runs Fedora with GNOME, removed Firefox for SeaMonkey :P | May 18 15:08 | |
| oiaohm | Compiz is having to be rewriten for DRI2 by the way. | May 18 15:09 |
| oiaohm | To be more like KDE 4 internally. | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | and of course Ubuntu, Debian, Vista, XP x64 | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | and XP | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | I have a few systems | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Basically Compiz is a hack. | May 18 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Run complex opengl programs you find out how bad. | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | well, I flip it on, it works, it's perfect | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | I flip KWin on it dies | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | it is fail | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 15:09 |
| oiaohm | To be expected | May 18 15:09 |
| DaemonFC | that's from a user POV | May 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | You would not have DRI2 video card. | May 18 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | and not biased at all | May 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | So KWin will cause failure. | May 18 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | it works fine | May 18 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | until it dies | May 18 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | There will be two versions of Compiz | May 18 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | never know when it's coming | May 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | One for dri1 one for dri2 | May 18 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | I have a Geforce 9500 GT | May 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | DRI 1. | May 18 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Compiz is using opengl extentions on that to remain stable. | May 18 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time. | May 18 15:11 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia's driver is the only one with full OpenGL accelerated extensions too | May 18 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Simple point here touch desktop effect on gnome or kde you will break some applications. | May 18 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | ATI is suck | May 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | KDE will break more because it don't hack. | May 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | DRI2 removes the need to hack the interfaces. | May 18 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | basically there's only one driver that isn't total fail | May 18 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | that's Intel's | May 18 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | and theirs isn't all that | May 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | Touch intel DRI2 driver at moment. | May 18 15:12 |
| DaemonFC | well, in the realm of free drivers | May 18 15:12 |
| oiaohm | Not all intels drivers are good. | May 18 15:13 |
| oiaohm | I am talking free. | May 18 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | I have some kind of Intel GMA 3100 or something | May 18 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Only about 60 percent of there cards work with it yet DaemonFC | May 18 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | but I've never used it | May 18 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Nice really try the dri2 driver and scream. | May 18 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Guess what it one that is still broken. | May 18 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | same as with all my stuff | May 18 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | if there's 1,000 models of something | May 18 15:14 |
| oiaohm | dri1 driver works with it. | May 18 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | and Linux fails to support 1 | May 18 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | I will own that model | May 18 15:14 |
| oiaohm | Main reason intel is so behind. | May 18 15:14 |
| oiaohm | There lead developer had to rebuild most of the back end of X11 to remove the random compiz crashes. | May 18 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of this stuff you may as well just tape up the device names on the wall, blindfold yourself and throw a dart over your shoulder | May 18 15:15 |
| oiaohm | Touch particular features is asking for it at this stage. | May 18 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | cause there's no telling sometimes if it will work | May 18 15:15 |
| DaemonFC | UNTIL you own it and plug it in | May 18 15:15 |
| oiaohm | I have never had that probem. | May 18 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Only have got caught out one with a useless modem then learnt how to do my homework. | May 18 15:16 |
| MinceR | also, i'd like to see what other wm than kde4/kwin can do both opengl compositing and snapping to window borders while resizing a window. | May 18 15:16 |
| MinceR | compiz doesn't do it. | May 18 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | Who cares if they "designed" it to cure cancer? | May 18 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | I care what it ends up actually doing | May 18 15:17 |
| oiaohm | It will in the end when there lower down systems work DaemonFC. | May 18 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | crashing my computer and making me hold in the power button is not good | May 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Ie X11 | May 18 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | I will use what doesn't do this | May 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Note KDE cannot crash a system to need a power button. | May 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | X11 can. | May 18 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | something did | May 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | X11 | May 18 15:18 |
| oiaohm | You are blaming the wrong thing. | May 18 15:18 |
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| oiaohm | to be correct Nvidia drivers + X11 did. | May 18 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | care to explain why I get great uptimes in GNOME | May 18 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | and no crashes? | May 18 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | then I flip over to KDE and it's segfault city | May 18 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | application failures, Kwin failures | May 18 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | system lockups | May 18 15:19 |
| oiaohm | system lockups are a different cat. | May 18 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | KDE is just bizarre and I'm past even trying to figure out why it behaves as it does | May 18 15:20 |
| oiaohm | Cause is that the X11 server and Nvidia not KDE. Compiz has hacks to avoid hitting faults in X11 and drivers. | May 18 15:20 |
| oiaohm | KDE does not avoid the defects that should not be there. | May 18 15:21 |
| oiaohm | segfaults lots of them are incompelete work in KDE 4. If you want to complain about particular programs segfaulting when they should not that is fine. | May 18 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Some of the segfaults are also bad memory management in X11. | May 18 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | I'll proabably check it out again in 4.3 | May 18 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | just out of morbid curiousity | May 18 15:23 |
| oiaohm | Again KDE 4 was not design to treat DRI1 systems kindly. | May 18 15:24 |
| oiaohm | Because it was fully designed that DRI2 would be out by now. | May 18 15:24 |
| oiaohm | To be correct over 12 months go. | May 18 15:24 |
| schestowitz | tacone: load average: 0.53, 0.94, 1.17 | May 18 15:24 |
| schestowitz | I have something for you | May 18 15:25 |
| schestowitz | I will probably post it later | May 18 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm | May 18 15:25 |
| oiaohm | If you enable the 3d effects in KDE4 on a dri1 driver expect your system to die DaemonFC. | May 18 15:25 |
| schestowitz | Marco Cappato (ALDE) and Marco Pannella (ALDE) | May 18 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | why are there so many Chinese web browsers based on MSIE? | May 18 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Problem is without compositing KDE 4 is slow DaemonFC | May 18 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | is it just that popular there? | May 18 15:26 |
| tacone | schestowitz: ? | May 18 15:26 |
| tacone | what's about cappato and pannella ? | May 18 15:26 |
| schestowitz | http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=WQ&reference=E-2008-1486&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2008-1486&language=EN | May 18 15:27 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: remember this basic point at no time should any program runnign under X11 ever be able to stuff the system up. Only X11 and it drivers have that right. | May 18 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Apparently Google has invested at least $1 million into a browser based on Internet Explorer | May 18 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | not new | May 18 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/04/10/google-takes-partial-ownership-of-maxthon-browser/ | May 18 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | but interesting | May 18 15:27 |
| schestowitz | Yikes | May 18 15:27 |
| oiaohm | Worst that should be able to happen with a windows manager is it crash and it auto log you out DaemonFC. | May 18 15:28 |
| tacone | i seem not able to open those links | May 18 15:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I think I remember | May 18 15:28 |
| tacone | what's the point ? | May 18 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Not as you make it sound.......... | May 18 15:28 |
| MinceR | if only X11 was so robust | May 18 15:28 |
| schestowitz | tacone: yes, it's down now | May 18 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | Google seems to be throwing money at everything that can drive traffic to Google.com | May 18 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | regardless of what it is | May 18 15:29 |
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| tacone | schestowitz: what were you trying to say about them ? | May 18 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | they have Chrome, the fund Mozilla and Opera | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | I got this suggestion for battling the DDOS: | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | "HEAD's one of the easier ways to do a DDoS. | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | Have you tried placing the following in your .htaccess file? | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | RewriteEngine On | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | RewriteCond %{REQUEST_METHOD} HEAD | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | RewriteRule .* - [F] | May 18 15:29 |
| schestowitz | That should pull the fangs of that particular attack. " | May 18 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | and apparently this MSIE based browser too | May 18 15:30 |
| MinceR | "Are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "Sure, Brain, but how can we take control of all the web browsers out there?" | May 18 15:30 |
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| _faruqs | Hi all!! | May 18 15:30 |
| _faruqs | I just know about this site.. | May 18 15:30 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: it seems very unlikely that Google would invest in anything based on MS technology - these organisations are in almost mortal combat at the moment. | May 18 15:30 |
| oiaohm | MinceR DRI2 is about returning X11 to the robustness. | May 18 15:30 |
| _faruqs | BTW check this: www.mscosn.my | May 18 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | kentma1: It's likely | May 18 15:30 |
| _faruqs | Its open source conference.. | May 18 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | 80 million Chinese internet users using Maxthon? | May 18 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | They could be searching with Google :) | May 18 15:31 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: are you able to explain why? Everything I've seen would suggest the exact opposite. | May 18 15:31 |
| _faruqs | But Microsoft, Red Hat and Novell will be in 1 google.. | May 18 15:31 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i'm guessing nvidia hasn't done a lot about moving to dri2 so far. | May 18 15:31 |
| tacone | browser business is trickier than what it seems | May 18 15:31 |
| tacone | google toolbar for ie exists | May 18 15:31 |
| MinceR | that's what proprietary drivers do. :/ | May 18 15:31 |
| tacone | and it's one of google's most important products. | May 18 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/toolbar/ie7/ | May 18 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | check that out | May 18 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | Upgrade now to Internet Explorer 7 optimized for Google | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 15:32 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia was part of the team in 2003 that was meant to clean up the video card mess who did not. | May 18 15:32 |
| kentma1 | oh, you just mean a toolbar. | May 18 15:32 |
| tacone | also customized ie versions are shipped by many isps | May 18 15:32 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: about the DDOS attack, are we sure that they keep changing strategy? | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 18 15:32 |
| schestowitz | It is just HEADs? | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | they are distributing MSIE | May 18 15:32 |
| kentma1 | I thought you meant something more than that. | May 18 15:32 |
| schestowitz | In fact, myself and others in IRC occasionally get blacklisted by accident. :-) | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | customized by them | May 18 15:32 |
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| tacone | schestowitz: i still think it's a script kiddie | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/toolbar/ie8/ | May 18 15:32 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: just a toolbar. | May 18 15:32 |
| tacone | your only choice is waiting to see if he adjustes the attack or just give up | May 18 15:32 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: You cannot call it until you win. | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 18 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | it's MSIE | May 18 15:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: but they change | May 18 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | customized with IEAK | May 18 15:33 |
| oiaohm | We cannot bet they will not change there stratege. | May 18 15:33 |
| schestowitz | That's why they occasionally rise again | May 18 15:33 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: that's a way of getting search hits, it's not promoting or developing on IE. | May 18 15:33 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: philosophically completely different animals. | May 18 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | $1 million to buy into a browser used by 80 million people is peanuts | May 18 15:34 |
| oiaohm | Finding new locaitons to attack from schestowitz | May 18 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | they spend more than that to buy into Firefox and Opera | May 18 15:34 |
| tacone | i don't think google has access to the ie source code | May 18 15:34 |
| kentma1 | That's not the right calculation - you need to think in terms of advertising & hits; don't forget that MS ship IE with "search" automatically pointing to MS's own search engine. The toolbar is a *response* to this. | May 18 15:35 |
| oiaohm | Now if type of attack on site can be isolated we can stop a script kiddy in time schestowitz | May 18 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | it's not a toolbar | May 18 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | they used IEAK on it | May 18 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | that's an Internet Explorer installer | May 18 15:35 |
| oiaohm | Because we can look for the attack signature so avoid hitting as many not gulity parties schestowitz. | May 18 15:36 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: perhaps, but what are they installing? My feeling is that it's about making the OS & browser irrelevant... | May 18 15:36 |
| tacone | like my phone isp :-) | May 18 15:36 |
| oiaohm | Problem is if they are not a script kiddy. Once we defeat an attack style they will choose a new one. | May 18 15:36 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: was up at 9AM EDT | May 18 15:36 |
| oiaohm | This is what is supprising me. Site is up there effectiveness is down why have they not changed the game up schestowitz. | May 18 15:37 |
| oiaohm | Or walked away. | May 18 15:37 |
| tacone | may just be an iddle computer wgetting stuff every 3 seconds | May 18 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 18 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | Xandros | May 18 15:37 |
| tacone | idle | May 18 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | is "I hope they all die painfully" too strong? | May 18 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | "Click here to buy MS patent protection for $50" | May 18 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | "Includes promises not to sue you over shit they don't own." | May 18 15:39 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: maybe. but someone was able to use 'please choke in a bucket full of dicks' in the past | May 18 15:39 |
| tacone | (in the source code of a program) | May 18 15:39 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: when will you fix comments? | May 18 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/05/messy-room-call-911.html | May 18 15:42 |
| oiaohm | Its partly dependant when we can got comments out old host Balrog_ | May 18 15:43 |
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| Balrog_ | oh. | May 18 15:44 |
| oiaohm | Wounder if you can get a refund if you live in countries where patents dont apply DaemonFC | May 18 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 18 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | better ide.... | May 18 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | don't buy anything from Xandros | May 18 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | *idea | May 18 15:47 |
| oiaohm | I am more thinking from cost point of view. | May 18 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=networking_and_internet&articleId=9133201&taxonomyId=16&intsrc=kc_top | May 18 15:48 |
| oiaohm | If you got a 100 percent refund for the patent licence. It still will cost them more processing is not nothing. | May 18 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | Office 2010 preview leaks to Web | May 18 15:48 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog_: need to merge comments manually | May 18 15:50 |
| Balrog_ | ah. :( ... isn't that a lot of work? | May 18 15:50 |
| Balrog_ | but why? | May 18 15:50 |
| schestowitz | yes | May 18 15:51 |
| schestowitz | manual | May 18 15:51 |
| *DaemonFC flogs MinceR with Netscape 6.0 | May 18 15:51 | |
| DaemonFC | and Windows Me | May 18 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | and the eMachine they rode in on | May 18 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 15:52 |
| Balrog_ | :P | May 18 15:54 |
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| *MinceR flogs DaemonFC with vista | May 18 15:56 | |
| *MinceR dual-wields it with winme and continues flogging. | May 18 15:57 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000242.html | May 18 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | May 18 16:01 |
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| schestowitz | That's an MS blog | May 18 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Former MS employee | May 18 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | He spreads venom based on my experience | May 18 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Tries to Associate Itself with Open Source in Order to Spread Lock-in, Dump Proprietary Software on Clients < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/associate-to-spread-lock-in/ > | May 18 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | "When Microsoft speaks about “open source”, then it would rather speak about incorporating BSD code into its proprietary products" | May 18 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | kind of like Apple? | May 18 16:16 |
| Balrog_ | I'd say worse | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | nah | May 18 16:17 |
| Balrog_ | MS wants to infect 'open source' with their tech | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | Windows NT is not a duplication of FreeBSD with a whipped cream topping | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | and a graham cracker crust | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | Mac OS is a Mallomar | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | is what I'm saying | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | Apple has abused BSD licensed code much more than Microsoft has | May 18 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | Apple's entire OS is hijacked BSD | May 18 16:18 |
| Balrog_ | maybe, but MS is doing much more insidious stuff like Mono | May 18 16:18 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: I've talked to people who work on BSD and they are not at all upset about that | May 18 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | well, they'd look pretty fucking stupid if they were upset | May 18 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | after all, they licensed it like that | May 18 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | so I bet they are pissed | May 18 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | and ego won't let them say it | May 18 16:19 |
| Balrog_ | they /want/ their code to be used like that, afaict | May 18 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | Yes, I would LOVE to work for free | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | to make other people billions of dollars | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | how retarded is that? | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | and when they build shit on the work I did for free | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | I get precisely nothing back | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | splendid | May 18 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | and when they hold their users hostage and I wrote 90% of the code that let them do it | May 18 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | I get a warm fuzzy feeling | May 18 16:21 |
| Balrog_ | they say GPL isn't free because it takes away the freedom to incorporate that code into a proprietary product | May 18 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | the BSD license is fairly insipid | May 18 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | I'd say it's as bad or worse than Microsoft | May 18 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | cause it not only helps them make proprietary lock in software, but nobody that contributes to it even gets anything back | May 18 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | it's like helping them assimilate and enslave | May 18 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | it's just....wrong | May 18 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | I can kind of understand that the guy that programmed Windows Genuine Advantage did it because it's a job, he got paid, and can feed his family | May 18 16:24 |
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| DaemonFC | I'll never understand someone that puts source out under the BSD license | May 18 16:24 |
| Omar87 | Hi | May 18 16:24 |
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| kentma1 | DaemonFC: if they're not being paid? They might have other goals, of course. | May 18 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but it's aiding and abetting the enemy | May 18 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | for lack of a better term | May 18 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | for no personal gain even | May 18 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | I just totally fail to see what's in it for the programmer or society or anyone | May 18 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | why is giving Apple and Microsoft free code a good thing? | May 18 16:26 |
| kentma1 | DaemonFC: I can think of many reasons why someone might want to give away BSD'd code. | May 18 16:27 |
| kentma1 | One might be just in order to be a spoiler of some kind. | May 18 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: IronPython anyone? | May 18 16:27 |
| kentma1 | Another might be to enable the usage of some proprietary blob, say? | May 18 16:27 |
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| kentma1 | eg., a BSD'd library to access a database which is "free" to use, but proprietary, and might need to be charged for sometime? | May 18 16:28 |
| kentma1 | BSDed even. | May 18 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | I can understand it in a few limited cases | May 18 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | like BSD license makes sense for Ogg Vorbis | May 18 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | but not FreeBSD | May 18 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | or maybe for a web browser engine | May 18 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | but not a windowing system | May 18 16:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: no thanks | May 18 16:30 |
| schestowitz | It's harmful | May 18 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | there's certain things that should just not be allowed to proliferate with no terms | May 18 16:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: about BSD | May 18 16:30 |
| schestowitz | I was gonna add the "Apple" thing | May 18 16:31 |
| schestowitz | But I thought it would take me off topic to another discussion | May 18 16:31 |
| schestowitz | And the post is about MS, not Apple | May 18 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | and Microsoft has used Ogg Vorbis | May 18 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | and continues to do so | May 18 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Also I thought about WebKit and CUPS when I typed it | May 18 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | I don't see a problem with that | May 18 16:31 |
| schestowitz | I write very quickly now | May 18 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Won't be high quality | May 18 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | WebKit isn't a problem | May 18 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | Apple hasn't really been stingy with it | May 18 16:32 |
| schestowitz | BTW, the "no thanks, it's harmful" was in ref: to IronRuby | May 18 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | mainly cause they can't be, right? | May 18 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | great success | May 18 16:32 |
| schestowitz | *IronPython | May 18 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | WebKit is a pretty good engine really | May 18 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is there's no awesome browsers out that use it | May 18 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | the closest I've found is Chrome | May 18 16:33 |
| Balrog_ | except Safari, and the WebKit GTK+ frontend still needs work | May 18 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately the KDE people insist on beating the KHTML dead horse | May 18 16:34 |
| MinceR | aren't they switching to using the WebKit built into Qt4? | May 18 16:34 |
| _Hicham_ | do u use Chrome on Linux? | May 18 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | but there's so many overt flaws with KDE | May 18 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | that this hardly makes the top 100 list | May 18 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | there's an Ubuntu repository that automatically packages the daily Chromium build | May 18 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | it's not anything you want to use as a primary browser | May 18 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | but clearly will be some stiff competition for Firefox | May 18 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | when it's ready :) | May 18 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | I suspect that distributions may even start kicking Firefox off the default CD image | May 18 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | since Chromium is so much lighter | May 18 16:37 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: probably not the main distros | May 18 16:37 |
| Balrog_ | though distros like Xubuntu would | May 18 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | Xubuntu is like trying to strip down an Abrams tank by throwing out the comfortable chairs | May 18 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | it is not an appropriate "light" distro | May 18 16:38 |
| schestowitz | I should be able to restore docs and images in 1.5 hours | May 18 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | they merely removed the comforts, and left the bloat | May 18 16:38 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: webkit will be an option in Konqy | May 18 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | it's what they got for trying to clone GNOME | May 18 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | LXDE is really showing more promise than XFCE | May 18 16:39 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: imo zenwalk is worse. | May 18 16:40 |
| MinceR | than xubuntu, that is. | May 18 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | http://lxde.org/ | May 18 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | there's LXDE packages in Fedora | May 18 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | and a spin | May 18 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | very nice | May 18 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | does feel somewhat influenced by XP though | May 18 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | not necessarily a bad thing | May 18 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | Why do I taste cigarettes? | May 18 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | I haven't smoked in months | May 18 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 16:47 |
| tacone | that mono fan published my comments | May 18 16:51 |
| tacone | but i'm so sick with this mono campaing that I'm going to post something about mono anyway. | May 18 16:52 |
| _Hicham_ | who uses Mono? | May 18 16:53 |
| _Hicham_ | isn't there any info about that? | May 18 16:54 |
| tacone | every ubuntu user | May 18 16:54 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a basic feedback for every framework | May 18 16:54 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean developers | May 18 16:54 |
| _Hicham_ | not end users | May 18 16:54 |
| tacone | thou shalt never strip mono run time from the livecd. | May 18 16:54 |
| tacone | mono is widespread, but in many different platform | May 18 16:54 |
| tacone | they're starting to use it even for games development. | May 18 16:55 |
| tacone | (on the xbox and more) | May 18 16:55 |
| _Hicham_ | MonoDevelop for game development? | May 18 16:55 |
| tacone | not really | May 18 16:55 |
| tacone | some specific platform | May 18 16:55 |
| tacone | also on iphone. | May 18 16:55 |
| tacone | they're doing a great work. | May 18 16:55 |
| _Hicham_ | do they make money from it? | May 18 16:56 |
| tacone | who ? | May 18 16:56 |
| _Hicham_ | Novell? | May 18 16:56 |
| tacone | where novell finds all that money, now - that's a good question | May 18 16:56 |
| tacone | guess the answer | May 18 16:56 |
| _Hicham_ | ok | May 18 16:57 |
| tacone | the game platform is from a third party company btw | May 18 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is not profitable yet? | May 18 16:57 |
| _Hicham_ | just MS funding? | May 18 16:57 |
| tacone | who knows ? | May 18 16:57 |
| tacone | but MS funding is an awful lot of money | May 18 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Does Microsoft Still Create Twitter Accounts for Guerilla Marketing? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/twitter-accounts-for-guerilla-marketing/ > | May 18 16:58 |
| tacone | and being the only company able to distribute mono under a patent agreement means a lot of money to be made in the future if it spreads | May 18 16:58 |
| tacone | http://pastebin.com/d39d7baec | May 18 16:59 |
| tacone | part of my next post. | May 18 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | I think that's what the Novell deal is for | May 18 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | creating only one competitor instead of many | May 18 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | and making money off that competitor at the same time :) | May 18 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft wants one competitor in every market even if that competitor is a joke | May 18 17:01 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: i see novell as ms emergency plan | May 18 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise they get investigated again | May 18 17:01 |
| tacone | if windows dies, they have a linux platform ready | May 18 17:02 |
| tacone | and they make money out of IP without doing nothing | May 18 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | I think Windows dying is pretty far fetched | May 18 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 makes one thing abundantly clear | May 18 17:02 |
| tacone | and by the way, this is good stuff to be publicized to the EU commission as Interoperability effort | May 18 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | they know they can't triple the system requirements every release anymore | May 18 17:02 |
| tacone | they also are loosing their partnership with Intel | May 18 17:03 |
| tacone | that makes up for interesting developments. | May 18 17:03 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 is the first time they've ever released a new version where the requirements haven't gone up | May 18 17:04 |
| tacone | intel has to support linux in order to remain competitive with other producers | May 18 17:04 |
| DaemonFC | I know Intel didn't upgrade to Vista | May 18 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | that was funny | May 18 17:06 |
| tacone | no corporation did. | May 18 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | after they had Microsoft lie about Vista's requirements | May 18 17:06 |
| tacone | it bypasses firewall with an ipv6 trick | May 18 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | so they could sell off their low end parts | May 18 17:06 |
| tacone | using MS servers as Proxies | May 18 17:06 |
| tacone | interesting shit, I say | May 18 17:06 |
| tacone | the loss of ground of windows also brings interesting issues to the governments looking for using Windows as a big brother system under the complicity with MS | May 18 17:07 |
| tacone | as of hardware requirements, that's the reason Linux is good even for Windows users | May 18 17:08 |
| tacone | going offline now. | May 18 17:08 |
| tacone | cell phone battery exausted | May 18 17:09 |
| tacone | bye | May 18 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Does Microsoft Use Its Sponsored IDC/BSA Study for Extortion Across the World? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/microsoft-idc-bsa-studies/ > | May 18 17:11 |
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| neighborlee | schestowitz: dumb question most likey ,,but I presume you know about this already ? : http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23501/1090/ | May 18 17:19 |
| neighborlee | ...............................likely | May 18 17:19 |
| shreddar | So that's what the TomTom thing was about. I kept wondering why that was so important. I'd never heard of TomTom before this site. | May 18 17:26 |
| *schestowitz looks | May 18 17:28 | |
| schestowitz | neighborlee: I like Sam | May 18 17:28 |
| schestowitz | He's right | May 18 17:28 |
| schestowitz | We corresponds in private about it sometimes and there are journalists who are too shy to *gasp* insult some Mono people, so they keep quiet | May 18 17:29 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: it shows MS sues Linux | May 18 17:29 |
| schestowitz | That's the significance of it. First sw patent lawsuit too... which MS invokes | May 18 17:30 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: to o shy to insult mono people ? | May 18 17:30 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: I guess they aren't from iowa :)) | May 18 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Why? | May 18 17:30 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: we dont scare. ;) | May 18 17:30 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Mono People | May 18 17:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC is from Iowa, I think | May 18 17:30 |
| neighborlee | :)) | May 18 17:30 |
| schestowitz | PJ writes too little about Mono | May 18 17:31 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: I tend to agree..they are usually very rude people... | May 18 17:31 |
| schestowitz | The Mono mob is unpleasant to deal with when faces with issues | May 18 17:31 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: I totaly agree wit h that...we need more of that. | May 18 17:31 |
| _Hicham_ | does gNewSense ship Mono? | May 18 17:31 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: exactly | May 18 17:31 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: yes. | May 18 17:31 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | May 18 17:31 |
| _Hicham_ | very bad | May 18 17:31 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: I verified that a few days ago | May 18 17:31 |
| neighborlee | yup | May 18 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | Iowa? | May 18 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | wtf!? | May 18 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm | May 18 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 18 17:32 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: howEVER,,,BLAG < schestowitz was right> does NOT> | May 18 17:32 |
| neighborlee | DaemonFC: lol | May 18 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | the GNU project considers Mono as being free? | May 18 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | have u ever mailed RMS about that? | May 18 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Try about 500 miles to the east | May 18 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | can't miss it | May 18 17:33 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: yea he's stonned. | May 18 17:33 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: many people are fooled though..they dont usually do enough honework to verify things..they are fooled by mono faq's | May 18 17:33 |
| DaemonFC | if you start in Iowa which is the ass end of nowhere, and you go 500 miles east, you end up in Indiana | May 18 17:33 |
| DaemonFC | which is just plain nowhere | May 18 17:33 |
| _Hicham_ | do they plan to merge dotGNU and Mono? | May 18 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | but at least humans out number farm animals | May 18 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | :D | May 18 17:34 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: PJ's page is a eye opener though.its clear mono is anything BUT free..more attention needs to be put on that honestly... | May 18 17:34 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is Indiana Jones Reloaded | May 18 17:34 |
| neighborlee | DaemonFC: lol | May 18 17:34 |
| _Hicham_ | Moonlight is consided risky by Fedora | May 18 17:34 |
| neighborlee | not only risky | May 18 17:34 |
| _Hicham_ | whether Mono is not | May 18 17:34 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: as in banished | May 18 17:35 |
| _Hicham_ | they refuse to package Moonlight | May 18 17:35 |
| neighborlee | yet mono is ok...pretty stupid. | May 18 17:35 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_: yes | May 18 17:35 |
| _Hicham_ | but they do package Mono | May 18 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | go to Iowa sometime, but gas up before you leave Illinois | May 18 17:35 |
| neighborlee | exactly..pretty crazy isn't it.. | May 18 17:35 |
| _Hicham_ | they are shipping the latest version of it | May 18 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 17:35 |
| neighborlee | :) | May 18 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | or you're not going to be happy | May 18 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | you'll be like 3 hours into the state of Iowa and wonder if they ever heard of a Burger King | May 18 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 18 17:36 |
| _Hicham_ | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#Moonlight | May 18 17:36 |
| neighborlee | yes | May 18 17:36 |
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| Eruaran | hello | May 18 17:38 |
| neighborlee | hi | May 18 17:40 |
| Eruaran | whats up | May 18 17:41 |
| _Hicham_ | Hi Eruaran | May 18 17:41 |
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| Eruaran | hi | May 18 17:41 |
| Balrog_ | hi Eruaran | May 18 17:44 |
| Eruaran | hi | May 18 17:45 |
| Eruaran | I've borked my PC | May 18 17:45 |
| Eruaran | Have to fix it now | May 18 17:45 |
| Eruaran | can't be bothered atm though | May 18 17:45 |
| Balrog_ | ew what did you do? | May 18 17:45 |
| Eruaran | Well... it all started when I brought this ATI card home see... | May 18 17:45 |
| Balrog_ | ah. Windows? or Linux? | May 18 17:46 |
| Eruaran | Linux | May 18 17:46 |
| Balrog_ | and does the /card/ work? (hardware wise) | May 18 17:46 |
| Eruaran | A little angel on my shoulder told me I should prepare for everything | May 18 17:46 |
| Balrog_ | :P | May 18 17:46 |
| _Hicham_ | which series is the card? | May 18 17:46 |
| Eruaran | But the little devil on the other shoulder said screw it | May 18 17:47 |
| neighborlee | bbl powering down till I return home.. | May 18 17:47 |
| *neighborlee has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net") | May 18 17:47 | |
| Eruaran | Its a HD3850 | May 18 17:47 |
| Eruaran | yes the card works | May 18 17:48 |
| Balrog_ | there should be a driver | May 18 17:48 |
| Eruaran | yes | May 18 17:48 |
| Eruaran | I installed fglrx | May 18 17:48 |
| Balrog_ | then what's borked? | May 18 17:49 |
| Eruaran | well | May 18 17:49 |
| Balrog_ | I had a mix up with nvidia last week | May 18 17:49 |
| Eruaran | I had an nvidia card before that | May 18 17:49 |
| Balrog_ | (the driver) | May 18 17:49 |
| Eruaran | I just put the new card in and booted up | May 18 17:49 |
| Eruaran | I changed my xorg.conf to vesa | May 18 17:50 |
| Eruaran | and it was really slow... couldn't get the desktop started | May 18 17:50 |
| Balrog_ | yes, I know. | May 18 17:50 |
| Eruaran | I installed fglrx | May 18 17:50 |
| Eruaran | still really wierd and slow | May 18 17:50 |
| Balrog_ | configured right? | May 18 17:50 |
| Balrog_ | correct version? | May 18 17:50 |
| Eruaran | so I thought meh, I'll put the old card back in | May 18 17:51 |
| Eruaran | I've got my xorg and drivers screwed up a bit | May 18 17:51 |
| Eruaran | I'll fix it tomorrow | May 18 17:51 |
| Eruaran | its late | May 18 17:51 |
| Balrog_ | ahh ok. | May 18 17:51 |
| Balrog_ | what xorg do you have? | May 18 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Another Microsoft Product Officially Dies, More Layoffs, Tellme Founder Quits Microsoft < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/another-microsoft-product-officially-dead/ > | May 18 17:52 |
| Eruaran | Balrog_: I forget :P | May 18 17:52 |
| Balrog_ | or what distro...? | May 18 17:52 |
| Eruaran | kubuntu 9.04, with all latest updates | May 18 17:52 |
| Balrog_ | well, 9.04 probably has Xorg 1.6, which may be a bit unstable | May 18 17:53 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I remembered it was one of the "I" states where you lives | May 18 17:53 |
| Eruaran | I don't think its xorg though | May 18 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Not Illinois | May 18 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | Server might slow now | May 18 18:19 |
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| schestowitz | I'm gunzipping 3gb on the server | May 18 18:19 |
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| tacone | 12210 downloads for the pdf | May 18 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | Can you access the site? | May 18 18:36 |
| tacone | me ? apparently not | May 18 18:37 |
| _Goblin | I can...a little slow... | May 18 18:37 |
| schestowitz | OK | May 18 18:38 |
| _Goblin | and the new layout for the homepage isnt showing...its back to its old format | May 18 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Good... | May 18 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Cause I uncompressed 3GB | May 18 18:38 |
| schestowitz | I think it had me blacklisted automatically.. | May 18 18:38 |
| _Goblin | to be honest, I wasnt a big fan of the new layout... | May 18 18:38 |
| schestowitz | OK, it works | May 18 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Just not from my PC :-) | May 18 18:39 |
| _Goblin | lol, maybe you should give up using that Windows 7 RC lol. | May 18 18:39 |
| shreddar | schestowitz is some of the missing files in gzipped archives still? | May 18 18:39 |
| schestowitz | ping tessier my got blacklisted when uncompressing the newer site backup | May 18 18:40 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: I have most of it there | May 18 18:40 |
| schestowitz | I still need to very latest files from the old host | May 18 18:40 |
| schestowitz | UK launches registry of all children < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137374/uk-launches-registry-children > | May 18 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Franco had one ball: Official < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/18/franco_huevo/ > | May 18 18:57 |
| Balrog_ | that is dangerous | May 18 18:57 |
| Balrog_ | (what the UK is doing) | May 18 18:57 |
| schestowitz | macabe: Nortel and BT ink enterprise deal < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/05/18/bt_nortel/ > | May 18 18:57 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: indeed | May 18 18:58 |
| schestowitz | They ignore the known warnings | May 18 18:58 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | May 18 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Server admin: "My ISP tells me we have been doing 10Mb/s since Sunday. " | May 18 18:58 |
| schestowitz | MAdness. | May 18 18:59 |
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| Balrog_ | the new server? | May 18 18:59 |
| schestowitz | tacone: 10Mb/s | May 18 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: yes | May 18 18:59 |
| schestowitz | DDOS | May 18 18:59 |
| tacone | wow | May 18 18:59 |
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| tacone | i'm going to post about the dos | May 18 18:59 |
| schestowitz | I can''t believe it stayed online | May 18 19:00 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: I thought it would be faster ... but apparently that's not necessary ....? | May 18 19:00 |
| tessier | schestowitz: What is your new IP? Did you get the email I sent in reply to yours? | May 18 19:01 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I got banned when gunzipping the 2.8GB tar.gz with the full backup (on the server, via SSH). :-) | May 18 19:02 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, sorry to be so much trouble BTW | May 18 19:02 |
| schestowitz | tessier: pm with IP | May 18 19:03 |
| schestowitz | the archive contains lots of graphics and docs, so once it's uncompressed I'll slide in the dirs into the right places :-) | May 18 19:04 |
| schestowitz | tessier: thanks, I'm in again! :-) | May 18 19:07 |
| schestowitz | Will it ban me for untarring 2.5gb? | May 18 19:08 |
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| tessier | No, it won't ban you for that | May 18 19:10 |
| schestowitz | thanks a million! | May 18 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Heh. Earlier you wrote: "My ISP tells me we have been doing 10Mb/s since Sunday." I don't think we're THAT popular. But there's more than 1 rack, right? | May 18 19:11 |
| tessier | That 10mb/s is just my machine. | May 18 19:12 |
| schestowitz | The journalist mailed me to ask the for log stuff (no access to my logs yet, I think) | May 18 19:12 |
| schestowitz | tessier: wow | May 18 19:12 |
| tessier | And it was using almost nothing before I started hosting bn | May 18 19:12 |
| schestowitz | What's the backbone? 100mb? gbit? | May 18 19:12 |
| tessier | We have 100mb to our upstream although I don't know what total bandwidth the datacenter has. | May 18 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | May 18 19:12 |
| schestowitz | tacone is blacklisted too | May 18 19:12 |
| schestowitz | 151.80.197.217. I'm so sorry to be a burden, tessier | May 18 19:13 |
| tessier | No problem | May 18 19:14 |
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| tessier | done | May 18 19:14 |
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| shreddar | Wait what just happend? | May 18 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | A Look at Microsoft’s Uneven Layoff Patterns Around the Globe, More Likely Coming < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/msft-uneven-layoff-patterns/ > | May 18 19:29 |
| kentma1 | dos still ongoing? | May 18 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | All remaining files restored \0/ | May 18 19:35 |
| tessier | kentma1: Nope, all done. The DoS'r got bored. | May 18 19:35 |
| schestowitz | \0/ again | May 18 19:35 |
| kentma1 | excellent. How much impact was there in practice? | May 18 19:36 |
| tessier | The site was up and down for the first day as we got everything dialed in and sucked up some bandwidth but it's fine now. | May 18 19:36 |
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| kentma1 | splendid. Good work. | May 18 19:36 |
| schestowitz | kentma1: did you see the BT/Nortel news? | May 18 19:38 |
| schestowitz | tessier: thanks a million. We'll pass you all the ad revenue. | May 18 19:39 |
| schestowitz | I think it's about $50/month. Not sure what the other host is up to. Still not giving access to the latest data | May 18 19:39 |
| kentma1 | the Nortel deal? It's essential, as so many businesses and government departments are Meridian shops. Nortel cannot be allowed to fail - it's just too important. | May 18 19:40 |
| kentma1 | Also, Nortel do PBB-TE, which will, eventually, supplant MPLS as people realise that you cannot emulate circuits on lossy packet networks, in spite of all the Cisco propaganda. | May 18 19:40 |
| schestowitz | That's the power of dependency that crate | May 18 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft tries the same thing, essentially by creating govt. dependency on Microsoft | May 18 19:41 |
| kentma1 | Cisco have played very very hard indeed at the IETF, ITU and in many companies in order to get their decidedly dubious MPLS stuff into networks at all. | May 18 19:41 |
| schestowitz | By offering 'free' services for vital data | May 18 19:41 |
| schestowitz | The banks are the same in the sense that they have a babysitter that won't permit them to fail | May 18 19:42 |
| kentma1 | schestowitz: ah, true, but to be fair, Meridians actually work rather well, unlike Windows and MPLS, which don't. | May 18 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Thus debunking the capitalistic idea of Darwinian commerce | May 18 19:42 |
| kentma1 | schestowitz: agreed, apart from lehman brothers, which for some bizarre reason, US gov allowed to die, whilst rescuing all the others. | May 18 19:42 |
| schestowitz | If you're big enough, then at worse you'll be nationalised | May 18 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Bear Stearns, no? | May 18 19:43 |
| kentma1 | schestowitz: oh, the really *big* capitalists know that all too well, they just sing the "free market" song because they know that there are enough gullible folk out their who might imagine that they really believe it. | May 18 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Free market is a misconception | May 18 19:43 |
| schestowitz | The "imaginary hand" is imaginary | May 18 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Because it does not exist | May 18 19:43 |
| schestowitz | People like Friedman sang this tune for years | May 18 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Others warned Clinton many years ago that he could not deliver his promises | May 18 19:44 |
| schestowitz | People like Rubin and Greenspan told him and later pretended the economy was fine. | May 18 19:44 |
| kentma1 | schestowitz: it's an ideal model, like the hybrid-Pi transistor model, or the bohr atomic model. When the real world hits these models, their limits are usually detected. | May 18 19:44 |
| kentma1 | quite! | May 18 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Free market ->euphemism | May 18 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Unregulated market | May 18 19:45 |
| schestowitz | That's the correct term | May 18 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Free as in unregulated | May 18 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Not free as in beer or liberty in the good sense of the word. Think "Freefall" | May 18 19:45 |
| kentma1 | unregulated markets always have limits, though, so scarcity becomes a significant issue, which distorts pricing. | May 18 19:45 |
| shreddar | Great! the exibits are back. I was mainly interested in some of the Intel ones. There's some interesting stuff about Playstation entering the PC space. | May 18 19:46 |
| kentma1 | Pricing affects cost bases for next-level businesses | May 18 19:46 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: yes, all are back | May 18 19:47 |
| schestowitz | As per 4/5/2009 | May 18 19:47 |
| schestowitz | I will need to get the data synched up later | May 18 19:47 |
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| schestowitz | tacone: you're whitelisted | May 18 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Does it work now | May 18 20:05 |
| schestowitz | ? | May 18 20:05 |
| tacone | yeah | May 18 20:05 |
| tacone | but as I said, i'll be out of this crappy iphone 3g connection soon | May 18 20:05 |
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| tacone | so do not bother about me. i can still read the rss on google reader btw | May 18 20:06 |
| tacone | (but thx :))) | May 18 20:06 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder if I got blacklisted again | May 18 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Works for SSH, not for HTTP on my IP | May 18 20:06 |
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| schestowitz | "Microsoft XBox 360 (XBox360Free) is now following your updates on Twitter." | May 18 20:07 |
| schestowitz | I guess tweeting about something that says "Microsoft" triggers Microsoft's spam accounts that want attention from people who co-follow | May 18 20:08 |
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| [H]omer | Yes, I'm back :) | May 18 20:11 |
| shreddar | Doooh!! | May 18 20:11 |
| shreddar | Had to do it | May 18 20:11 |
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| schestowitz | Woohoo | May 18 20:11 |
| [H]omer | Hi | May 18 20:12 |
| schestowitz | [H]omer: we're on a new server | May 18 20:12 |
| [H]omer | Really? | May 18 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 18 20:12 |
| [H]omer | What company? | May 18 20:12 |
| schestowitz | see #slated | May 18 20:12 |
| [H]omer | k | May 18 20:12 |
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| tacone | am i online ? | May 18 20:40 |
| schestowitz | ACK | May 18 20:40 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: missing link: http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-156535/fsfe:fsfe-submission-to-european-patent-office | May 18 20:41 |
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| schestowitz | Don Knuth submitted opposition to sw patents just now: http://www.epo.org/patents/appeals/eba-decisions/referrals/pending/briefs.html I'm there too | May 18 20:45 |
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| schestowitz | Usenet Community Sues Anti-Piracy Group For Calling It Criminal < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090517/0235414904.shtml > :-) | May 18 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Sony Pictures CEO: Nothing Good Has Come From The Internet < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090515/1301064900.shtml > | May 18 20:51 |
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| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090517/2210564914.shtml Some newspapers want to take the money people won't pay them (news 'tax') | May 18 20:55 |
| schestowitz | tacone: you made it into IDG: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2195&blogid=14 | May 18 20:55 |
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| _Goblin | Roy, I meant to say, thanks for the shout on your article! | May 18 21:04 |
| _Goblin | Ive posted a slightly different direction today - Moblock/PG and PirateBay....it'll either make or break the site!!!! | May 18 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Cool. I'll get to it later | May 18 21:06 |
| schestowitz | I still catch up with MS posts. About 10 more to go (at least) | May 18 21:07 |
| _Goblin | Andre Da Costa seems to be pimping bittorrent a bit recently....I wonder why... | May 18 21:08 |
| _Goblin | could it be "get them hooked, we'll work out how to make a return later" | May 18 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is attacking Linux in the news today | May 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Good. | May 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | It means Linux makes them sweat | May 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Even on the desktop | May 18 21:25 |
| _Goblin | Anywhere in particular? | May 18 21:25 |
| schestowitz | New Acer computer: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18476 GNU/Linux only | May 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: Preston Gralla, their shill | May 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Makes a life selling MS books | May 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | *living | May 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | And life | May 18 21:26 |
| schestowitz | His whole life is WIndows and he started attacking Linux some months ago very aggressively. Worse than Enderle. Reminds me very much of Alex Wolfe at the same. He quit it after a while. | May 18 21:27 |
| _Goblin | lol "Vista wasnt the companies biggest blunder...." Really? Why then after Vista have alternatives seen an increase in takeup?? He must think the average users are idiots. | May 18 21:28 |
| _boo_ | i will only buy ssd based netty that costs that low when ssd in there is at least 32gb | May 18 21:29 |
| schestowitz | it's getting very hot for Linux gadgets too: http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/18/archos-to-announce-android-device-next-month/ | May 18 21:29 |
| _boo_ | i just can't go with less | May 18 21:29 |
| _Goblin | Roy.... you ever heard of catweasel? | May 18 21:29 |
| schestowitz | IceCat I know | May 18 21:29 |
| schestowitz | and GNUcat | May 18 21:29 |
| schestowitz | └─(21:30 $)─> cat weasel | May 18 21:30 |
| schestowitz | cat: weasel: No such file or directory | May 18 21:30 |
| _Goblin | Ah...no this is a floppy controler for the A500 disk format... | May 18 21:30 |
| _Goblin | makes a great addition to UAE or similar | May 18 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Insiders Watch: Bruckheimer, Digiting, DoMedia < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/ms-in-bruckheimer-digiting-domedia/ > | May 18 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Gnote Enters Ubuntu GNU/Linux (Karmic) < https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnote > | May 18 21:50 |
| tacone | of course | May 18 21:51 |
| tacone | if it enters debian then it slips in ubuntu | May 18 21:51 |
| tacone | the only way to prevent it is to explicitly stop it | May 18 21:51 |
| _boo_ | debian doesn't slip into ubuntu | May 18 21:53 |
| _boo_ | those who use debian don't want ubuntu, trust me | May 18 21:53 |
| Balrog_ | tacone: not the other way around though, right? | May 18 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Debian has gnote too. So does Fedora | May 18 21:54 |
| schestowitz | The project only started in MARCH!! | May 18 21:54 |
| tacone | Balrog_: the other way around is manual effort | May 18 21:54 |
| tacone | debian to ubuntu is automatic | May 18 21:54 |
| tacone | well, the first release was on april 1st. | May 18 21:55 |
| _boo_ | oh... sources and stuff | May 18 21:55 |
| tacone | since the redhat policy, gnote is here to stay | May 18 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Ys | May 18 21:55 |
| tacone | redhat needs a note keeping application, right ? | May 18 21:55 |
| schestowitz | it'll be in F12 probably | May 18 21:55 |
| schestowitz | The Red Hat staff spoke about it in the MLs | May 18 21:56 |
| tacone | by default ? :-) | May 18 21:56 |
| schestowitz | F12 by default | May 18 21:56 |
| schestowitz | In the panel | May 18 21:56 |
| tacone | uh ? link ? | May 18 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Not definite yet | May 18 21:56 |
| tacone | i'm writing a mono post | May 18 21:56 |
| tacone | can you get me the url of the ml discussion ? | May 18 21:56 |
| schestowitz | tacone: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/04/fedora-no-mono-tomboy/ | May 18 21:56 |
| tacone | thx | May 18 21:59 |
| schestowitz | How many years ago did Microsoft said it would sort out its insecurity? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/18/security-hall-of-shame-microsoft/ | May 18 22:04 |
| _boo_ | wow, f12 is used for anything? | May 18 22:04 |
| tacone | _boo_: yeah, for supporting gnote | May 18 22:04 |
| _boo_ | cool | May 18 22:05 |
| _boo_ | i gotta install gnote | May 18 22:05 |
| _boo_ | so my f12 is not that useless anymore | May 18 22:05 |
| tacone | yeah | May 18 22:06 |
| tacone | out for a walk. see you later. | May 18 22:06 |
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| chips | Hi Roy and all. thought you might like this link: http://projects.publicintegrity.org/lobby/profile-frame.aspx?act=agencies&year=2003&ag=033&sub=3 | May 18 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Good news from the host: | May 18 22:11 |
| schestowitz | "We apologize for the delay. The Abuse and Security team does not yet have as many people working during the weekend and non-regular-business hours. | May 18 22:11 |
| schestowitz | We are creating an account package for this account, which we will make available for downloading once the creation process has completed. | May 18 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Please let us know if you have additional comments or concerns regarding this issue." | May 18 22:11 |
| schestowitz | This does not make up for bad service though | May 18 22:11 |
| chips | 213) Todd Boulanger Preston Gates Ellis Rouvelas & Meeds LLP | May 18 22:11 |
| *schestowitz looks | May 18 22:11 | |
| schestowitz | I found another lobby | May 18 22:11 |
| chips | Todd Boulanger Political Campaign Contributions 2008 Election Cycle | May 18 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Actually, zoobab01 did | May 18 22:12 |
| schestowitz | MS patent troll Nathan Myhrvold | May 18 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Paid politician who promotws sw patents | May 18 22:12 |
| chips | http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/todd-boulanger.asp?cycle=08 | May 18 22:12 |
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| schestowitz | Chips: can you get me a list of all names? | May 18 22:13 |
| schestowitz | For Gates | May 18 22:13 |
| schestowitz | We need to put up a reduced list like this in BN | May 18 22:13 |
| schestowitz | For future ref | May 18 22:13 |
| schestowitz | This relates to a recent article | May 18 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Also one for "Microsoft" | May 18 22:14 |
| chips | and the best link, that trys him to abamoff | May 18 22:14 |
| _Goblin | Hi chips...is that chips from MS Watch? | May 18 22:14 |
| schestowitz | BN is the new MS Watch | May 18 22:14 |
| chips | http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2008706559_aplobbyingscandalgreggaide.html | May 18 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Without Joe's bias :-D | May 18 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Now you just need to invite Da Costa to mass-paste press releases | May 18 22:14 |
| _Goblin | but youre missing the biggest celeb of them all....... | May 18 22:14 |
| schestowitz | BUT, but...... | May 18 22:14 |
| schestowitz | BN won't send his Ferrari laptops for that | May 18 22:14 |
| _Goblin | you got there first....Andre Da Costa | May 18 22:14 |
| chips | "Staffer F was cited in a guilty plea last week by Todd Boulanger, a former deputy to Abramoff. In federal court, Boulanger admitted he plied the staffer with front-row tickets to a hockey game, meals and drinks and other tickets to a baseball game, and in exchange received favors in spending legislation. The total value of the gifts Staffer F took from Boul | May 18 22:15 |
| chips | Roy, the first like has many Preston Gates law firm lobyists in it | May 18 22:15 |
| schestowitz | chips: can you get a list of Gates* and MS lobbyists? | May 18 22:15 |
| schestowitz | I need to make a post with the list in BN | May 18 22:15 |
| chips | I only just started looking at this one from random | May 18 22:16 |
| schestowitz | The Wiki will start creating profile for their activisties in the future | May 18 22:16 |
| chips | this page Roy has the preston gates lobbists | May 18 22:16 |
| chips | http://projects.publicintegrity.org/lobby/profile-frame.aspx?act=agencies&year=2003&ag=033&sub=3 | May 18 22:16 |
| chips | Hi Goblin | May 18 22:17 |
| schestowitz | for MS...? | May 18 22:17 |
| chips | a little googling on those names will most likely return a heap of dirt | May 18 22:18 |
| _Goblin | Hi chips. Nice to talk to you in real time! | May 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | chips: can you post them here? | May 18 22:18 |
| chips | I googled for Todd Boulanger microsoft | May 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | yeah. | May 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | It takes a while to put together a list | May 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | We need: | May 18 22:18 |
| schestowitz | * list of MS lobbyists (subset of the list) | May 18 22:19 |
| schestowitz | * one for gates' | May 18 22:19 |
| schestowitz | * examples of activities and links to prior posts about them | May 18 22:19 |
| schestowitz | I already have loads on it | May 18 22:19 |
| chips | sure there is more, most likely they do not always follow the law to the letter | May 18 22:19 |
| schestowitz | E.g. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/22/microsoft-gates-abramoff-connection/ | May 18 22:19 |
| chips | Yes, I thought you already had a lot on that Roy. Maybe the list of Preston Gates lobbists helps for more research, if you did not already have it. | May 18 22:21 |
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| mib_x1hbip | hello there | May 18 22:22 |
| mib_x1hbip | just wanted to point out that craig mundie and neelie kroes have met at this year's bilderberg meeting in greece | May 18 22:22 |
| chips | You are right about BN being the "new improved MS Watch." The only thing is, we need to do more than just preaching to the choir. Maybe post on CNET and ZDNET and link here. As much as I hate to post there. | May 18 22:23 |
| mib_x1hbip | http://www.truthnews.us/?p=2896 | May 18 22:23 |
| mib_x1hbip | ^ bilderberg attendee list for this year | May 18 22:23 |
| mib_x1hbip | on that page they messed up the spelling of mundies name tho... other updated lists with correct spelling are out there | May 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Hi, mib_x1hbip | May 18 22:25 |
| schestowitz | That's new to me | May 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | I know about Ballmer schmooozing Neelie | May 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | I also wrote about Mundie's visits to Europe | May 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Don't know if you saw it..... | May 18 22:26 |
| chips | @Goblin: https://twitter.com/hitslink the twitter account of Matt Hopkins, former MS Employee, who is with Net Applictions | May 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | I know the Gateses are in bilderberg | May 18 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Including Melinda French | May 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | But didn't know about Mundue | May 18 22:26 |
| schestowitz | *die ;-) | May 18 22:26 |
| mib_x1hbip | yeah both have been there but not this year | May 18 22:26 |
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| mib_x1hbip | this year mundie gets to rub shoulders with rockefeller :) | May 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | ChanServ: what? | May 18 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Oops.. | May 18 22:28 |
| schestowitz | chips: former MS employee? | May 18 22:28 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know that | May 18 22:28 |
| schestowitz | I knew about them getting paid by MS | May 18 22:28 |
| schestowitz | mib_x1hbip: any link for that (re: rockefeller)? | May 18 22:28 |
| schestowitz | I suppose you know about rockefeller and imperialsm | May 18 22:28 |
| schestowitz | A journalist famously blew the whistle | May 18 22:29 |
| chips | he was with http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=36269 | May 18 22:29 |
| chips | when MS bought it | May 18 22:29 |
| mib_x1hbip | http://www.wacholland.org/en/news/bilderberg-2009-attendee-list | May 18 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Vicinity Corporation < http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=36269 > | May 18 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Is this where Hopkins worked or something? | May 18 22:30 |
| chips | also, he does investing. He is listed as a former employee of MS and Vicinity Corporation, which MS bought | May 18 22:30 |
| chips | on the net applications page | May 18 22:30 |
| chips | also, a google search on Matt, says that he is also an investor | May 18 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Dynamite | May 18 22:31 |
| chips | one wonders if he owned part of Vicinity, and got the money from MS | May 18 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Anythng more | May 18 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Net Applications is funded by Microsoft | May 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | It is a client | May 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | So it's a two-way relationship, potentially | May 18 22:32 |
| chips | No, not for now, I going away till I can find something else to bug you folks with | May 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | I will do a post covering it | May 18 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Maybe tomorrow | May 18 22:32 |
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| mib_x1hbip | usually it takes some time and an official bilderberg attendee list emerges | May 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw some before | May 18 22:33 |
| mib_x1hbip | i believe last year they published one | May 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | lots of people underestimate these meetings | May 18 22:33 |
| chips | its not much, maybe something to add. also maybe a challege to Net Apps to respond would be good. Sort of like what Goblin did for Andre. | May 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Until a global meltdown | May 18 22:33 |
| mib_x1hbip | but not complete | May 18 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Brown and Bliar are there too | May 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | They can easily arrange funding to be elected and work out the plans of peers there | May 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | And Gates isn't only the OracleofDavos | May 18 22:34 |
| mib_x1hbip | when you see the names involved and the writings of the group leaders it gets scary | May 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Spam gone by 2006.... Moses small the Roses.. | May 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | *smell | May 18 22:34 |
| schestowitz | mib_x1hbip: they did a channel 4 show on it | May 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Obviously biased | May 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Demonising watchers | May 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | And sending them bunk to show innocence and all. | May 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Always funny to see people tricked into shows | May 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Like OReilly/fFauz | May 18 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Only to be publicly humiliated, something with some selective post-editing cuts | May 18 22:36 |
| mib_x1hbip | a guardian reporter was out to do a mockery of the watchers and got arrested 3 times | May 18 22:36 |
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| mib_x1hbip | he was on alex jones telling people he was freaking out | May 18 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | May 18 22:36 |
| schestowitz | I lost respect for Jones after his show with Chomsky | May 18 22:36 |
| schestowitz | He just did RMS | May 18 22:37 |
| schestowitz | And Ron Paul not so long ago | May 18 22:37 |
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| mib_xcvm5x | sorry pressed reload | May 18 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Jones harms his reputation by being so annoying sometimes | May 18 22:37 |
| mib_xcvm5x | guess i have a new name now | May 18 22:37 |
| mib_xcvm5x | jones is annoying | May 18 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, whatever.. :-) | May 18 22:37 |
| mib_xcvm5x | just not a guy for radio | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | mib_xcvm5x: gives a bad name to some | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | And Ike with the Crocodile crap | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Gives me the creeps | May 18 22:38 |
| mib_xcvm5x | yep... at some point people seem to lose it | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Next thing you know they talk about aliens and tears | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Hold on... | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | You gotta watch this.. | May 18 22:38 |
| mib_xcvm5x | yeah the UFO crap | May 18 22:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpxI-g8ZMqM&NR=1 | May 18 22:39 |
| schestowitz | OWNAGE | May 18 22:39 |
| mib_xcvm5x | oh that one's nice | May 18 22:40 |
| mib_xcvm5x | all those would-be-L-ron-hubbards out there are annoying | May 18 22:41 |
| schestowitz | They actually live here | May 18 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Scary | May 18 22:43 |
| schestowitz | People like this chap with a British accent walking among us | May 18 22:43 |
| schestowitz | "...They are either freemasons or utter nuts..." | May 18 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Actually, no, they give even nuts a bad name | May 18 22:44 |
| mib_xcvm5x | offline trolls... real-world trolls | May 18 22:44 |
| mib_xcvm5x | or maybe even spambots | May 18 22:44 |
| mib_xcvm5x | organicly made | May 18 22:44 |
| mib_xcvm5x | i'll be back if an official / leaked official BB name list pops up | May 18 22:45 |
| mib_xcvm5x | untill then i'll be reading the blog, i really like it, especially quality wise | May 18 22:46 |
| mib_xcvm5x | goodnight | May 18 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, malrome | May 18 22:50 |
| chips | Hi again | May 18 22:50 |
| chips | http://www.opensecrets.org/usearch/searchresults.php?drill=Microsoft+Corp&type=O | May 18 22:50 |
| chips | a list of money given by ms to congress members by name | May 18 22:50 |
| chips | Bill truly owns the USA | May 18 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Good news | May 18 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I am downloading the old account with up-to-date stuff | May 18 22:55 |
| schestowitz | We should soon be set up fully in the new server | May 18 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I'll need to uncompress it, then put the old (but up-to-date) DBs in and merge with the newer one | May 18 22:55 |
| trmanco | BAAM!! -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/karmic-changes/2009-May/001424.html | May 18 22:56 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Yes, already in BN | May 18 22:58 |
| trmanco | ah ok | May 18 22:59 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: after many years of hard work.. :-) | May 18 22:59 |
| schestowitz | [Hubert] | May 18 22:59 |
| schestowitz | 6 weeks? | May 18 23:00 |
| trmanco | yeah, about that | May 18 23:00 |
| chips | http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000115 | May 18 23:00 |
| chips | "Microsoft Corp is the world’s top computer software company. It is also one of the biggest campaign contributors in Washington—an astounding fact when you consider that Microsoft is a relatively new player on the political scene. Prior to 1998, the company and its employees gave virtually nothing in terms of political contributions. But when the Justice Depa | May 18 23:01 |
| chips | rtment" | May 18 23:01 |
| chips | the list below that gives the overall figures on how much MS has given to polital parties in the USA since the DOJ trial. The most of any company | May 18 23:02 |
| chips | 3.22 million in 2008 | May 18 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is the top lobbyist | May 18 23:05 |
| schestowitz | I have reports on that | May 18 23:05 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: http://nocturn.vsbnet.be/node/146 < you may know already, but if not its good to see others talking about it. | May 18 23:06 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz:its good to see others referencing groklaw. | May 18 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw it | May 18 23:07 |
| schestowitz | use it | May 18 23:07 |
| neighborlee | "I get a very distinct trojan horse feeling on both these technologies." | May 18 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Watch how the MS/Mono trolls attack him | May 18 23:07 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz: kk | May 18 23:07 |
| neighborlee | already saw :) | May 18 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | Watch the "Mono religion" post from this guy | May 18 23:08 |
| schestowitz | tacone: good news | May 18 23:08 |
| neighborlee | no surprise whatsoever < | May 18 23:08 |
| schestowitz | We got the data from $old_host | May 18 23:08 |
| tacone | tell me | May 18 23:08 |
| schestowitz | download complete in 1 hour | May 18 23:08 |
| tacone | me is about to post a mono religion post too | May 18 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Then I'd revert to old DB and fill in the diffs | May 18 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Including two comments | May 18 23:08 |
| schestowitz | I tried to preent people from commenting | May 18 23:08 |
| tacone | tell me the good news and the mono religion post url | May 18 23:08 |
| tacone | schestowitz: tell me the good news and the mono religion post url | May 18 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall right now | May 18 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Search for 'Microsoft mono religion' | May 18 23:10 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%27Microsoft+mono+religion%27&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | May 18 23:10 |
| tacone | the good news ? | May 18 23:10 |
| schestowitz | BN at #1 obviously | May 18 23:10 |
| schestowitz | tacone: we got the data to get things working without disparity in servers | May 18 23:11 |
| schestowitz | How do I use checksums? | May 18 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Never used em before | May 18 23:11 |
| tacone | are you referring to blacklist ? | May 18 23:11 |
| schestowitz | md5sum filename? | May 18 23:11 |
| schestowitz | tacone: nope | May 18 23:11 |
| schestowitz | BTW you can join #boycottnovell-social to talk about the DDOS | May 18 23:12 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges Good, no edits | May 18 23:13 |
| tacone | i'm trying | May 18 23:13 |
| schestowitz | This ought to be a smooth merge, but lots of manual work | May 18 23:13 |
| MinceR | gn | May 18 23:16 |
| chips | Roy, I am thinking MS will come out with a real ported Windows (not CE or Mobile) for ARM, in an effort to stop Linux | May 18 23:19 |
| chips | They will call it Seven, but ARM cannot run Seven, so it will be a combination of XP and CE, with Seven UI and wallpaper. | May 18 23:20 |
| tacone | it would make sense, as Intel is breaking they're marriage | May 18 23:20 |
| chips | Intel is in trouble, with Arm coming out, and a new Sparc cpu that blows anything they have away | May 18 23:21 |
| chips | Still M$ would need to port some apps and games to ARM to make it work at all | May 18 23:22 |
| chips | without any return | May 18 23:22 |
| chips | a further drain on their profits | May 18 23:22 |
| tacone | arm does linux. intel has to not support linux too much because of ms marriage | May 18 23:22 |
| tacone | but now arm is getting on netbooks and intel needs to compete | May 18 23:22 |
| tacone | so they have to support more linux | May 18 23:23 |
| tacone | so marriage breaks | May 18 23:23 |
| tacone | since marriage breaks microsoft can finally start supporting arm. | May 18 23:23 |
| tacone | nice. | May 18 23:23 |
| MinceR | new sparc cpu? | May 18 23:23 |
| chips | 2 1/2 faster than any intel cpu out | May 18 23:24 |
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| chips | 8 cores | May 18 23:24 |
| schestowitz | M2M running Linux: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5490897310.html?kc=rss | May 18 23:24 |
| schestowitz | chips: maplin sells some wince netbooks | May 18 23:24 |
| schestowitz | 129 quid | May 18 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Maplin used to sell Linux ones for 179 quid | May 18 23:25 |
| schestowitz | I see it at the shop's window every other day | May 18 23:25 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: there? | May 18 23:25 |
| schestowitz | We are getting the older server's contents right now | May 18 23:26 |
| tacone | i just realized that taking my last sentences and changing the order doesn't invalidate them | May 18 23:26 |
| tacone | they make sense in any order. | May 18 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Then I'll merge | May 18 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Nice schestowitz | May 18 23:26 |
| schestowitz | I'll need to check how to swap the DBs from the CLIs | May 18 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Really thinking about your poor old host they were stuck in a hard place. You were on shared server so the attack was not just affecting your site. | May 18 23:27 |
| chips | its Fujitsu that is making this new sparc chip, not Sun | May 18 23:27 |
| schestowitz | I hope tessier can do it for me | May 18 23:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: we have a faster server now | May 18 23:27 |
| schestowitz | tessier says he got 10mbits/sec since Sunday | May 18 23:27 |
| schestowitz | Amazon though | May 18 23:27 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3534619933.html?kc=rss I don't understand why being "Linux-compatible" makes it newsworthy in LinuxDevcies | May 18 23:28 |
| tacone | swap = ? | May 18 23:29 |
| tacone | export/import ? | May 18 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Its also news worthy on Windows devices site run by the same company schestowitz | May 18 23:30 |
| oiaohm | The linuxdevices and Windows devices are both used by embeded people to watch compettors and pickup what parts they can use. | May 18 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Different market different taste in news. | May 18 23:31 |
| chips | on that sparc cpu http://news.softpedia.com/news/Fujitsu-Working-on-the-Development-of-039-Venus-039-Processor-111652.shtml | May 18 23:31 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2005/06/09/one-click-backups/ | May 18 23:32 |
| schestowitz | haven't done this for ages (since 2005) | May 18 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Need to use my blog as reference. Like a diary | May 18 23:32 |
| tacone | a good website is one you need to use yourself. | May 18 23:34 |
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| chips | @oiaohm, what do you think of the "secure XP" version that the US air force is now using? | May 18 23:36 |
| oiaohm | I know its called XP but its really not. | May 18 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Its more amped up 2000 or desktop configured 2003. | May 18 23:37 |
| chips | what is it then? 2003 server | May 18 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Major fault in the direct x stack for one is removed from it. | May 18 23:38 |
| oiaohm | A patch MS has not released to normal XP users. | May 18 23:38 |
| chips | At some point, I think MS will release it to the public, not free of course | May 18 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Unlikely. | May 18 23:38 |
| oiaohm | MS wants XP to die. | May 18 23:39 |
| tessier | schestowitz: I just noticed that my server is receiving email for boycottnovell.com | May 18 23:39 |
| tessier | schestowitz: But I haven't configured the mail system for that. Do you receive any email at that domain? | May 18 23:39 |
| chips | then maybe a "secure version of Seven (ugh)" for the public? | May 18 23:40 |
| chips | not to replace the standard wide open version | May 18 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Also lot of standard programs will not run in secure XP chips | May 18 23:40 |
| schestowitz | mysqldump: Got error: 1045: Access denied for user 'boycottn_wki'@'localhost' (using password: NO) when trying to connect | May 18 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Including MS office without alterations. | May 18 23:40 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Use whatever username/pass the app is using. | May 18 23:41 |
| schestowitz | chips: 'secure' XP is debunked | May 18 23:41 |
| tessier | That username/pass work because the app is working. :) | May 18 23:41 |
| oiaohm | US mil one schestowitz. | May 18 23:41 |
| chips | agreed, most programs will not run in XP as limited user, without setting up "run as," and knowing the admin password | May 18 23:41 |
| schestowitz | You mean Wikipedia password? | May 18 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Its really not XP any more. | May 18 23:41 |
| schestowitz | MediWiki I mean | May 18 23:41 |
| schestowitz | *dia | May 18 23:42 |
| oiaohm | chips: less than limited user in XP. | May 18 23:42 |
| schestowitz | tessier: no E-mail, except bounces | May 18 23:42 |
| oiaohm | Yes it secuirty has been harded at any price chips. | May 18 23:42 |
| chips | Secure XP is not secure, agreed Roy | May 18 23:42 |
| schestowitz | For people who register and can't get verification (usually spammers) | May 18 23:42 |
| oiaohm | It more secure than stock standard XP. | May 18 23:43 |
| schestowitz | chips: no, they say it doesn't ecist | May 18 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Only Wired spoke about this | May 18 23:43 |
| chips | of course functionality is reduced in any limitied user setting in windows. | May 18 23:43 |
| oiaohm | More chips | May 18 23:43 |
| oiaohm | Mostly stupid holes removed. | May 18 23:43 |
| oiaohm | Like means to execute servece as limit user and get out of limited user. | May 18 23:44 |
| chips | yes, and if you get rid of the M$ targets, IE, Outlook Express, Windows Messinger, and WMP, you can further secure windows | May 18 23:44 |
| schestowitz | tessier: you mean "That username/pass work because the app is NOT working." ? | May 18 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Services running as system user. | May 18 23:44 |
| oiaohm | By default. | May 18 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Oops, sorry. | May 18 23:44 |
| schestowitz | "That username/pass wDO NOT ork because the app is working." ? | May 18 23:44 |
| oiaohm | All minor but important things to reduce how much at risk a OS is. | May 18 23:44 |
| chips | Windows will never be as secure as Linux, as for too long the malware writters have had a field day writting for it | May 18 23:45 |
| oiaohm | That is not exactly true. | May 18 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu running with apparmor a know defective securtity system is asking for trouble. | May 18 23:46 |
| Balrog | oiaohm: AppArmor is bad? | May 18 23:46 |
| chips | I don't run Ubuntu | May 18 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Apparmor use path based filtering threw a hack that Linux kernel does not support nativiely. | May 18 23:47 |
| chips | selinux is on my system, and a firewall | May 18 23:47 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm: slightly surprised they went with a suse tech..oh wait no I'm not given they are using tech from a known s upporter and inventor of mono. | May 18 23:47 |
| neighborlee | selinux can be a pain but I suppose best thing for needing secure enviornment | May 18 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Problem is since the Linux kernel does not support it native there are system calls that can break it. | May 18 23:47 |
| schestowitz | tessier: in about 20 minutes I should have the 'new' databases to plug in. Those which I need to replace what we have. I kept all changes made to the currently-installed DB aside in text files, so I can take the 'old' DB and then plug in what I added yesterday and today | May 18 23:48 |
| Balrog | selinux is very annoying | May 18 23:48 |
| oiaohm | There is a set of code in the 2.6.30 and up Linux kernel that will support path based. | May 18 23:48 |
| neighborlee | oh great oiaohm o_) | May 18 23:48 |
| schestowitz | I wanted to run mysqldump to make backups of the current DBs as well, just in case | May 18 23:48 |
| oiaohm | apparmor has not been updated to it. | May 18 23:48 |
| oiaohm | So its a sitting duck. | May 18 23:48 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm: has this been talked about oh ubuntu-devel or anything ? | May 18 23:49 |
| neighborlee | oh/on | May 18 23:49 |
| schestowitz | AppArmor is deprecated | May 18 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Yes. | May 18 23:49 |
| tacone | ubuntu stance is | May 18 23:49 |
| schestowitz | The founder doesn't like it when people say it | May 18 23:49 |
| schestowitz | The founder works for MS now | May 18 23:49 |
| schestowitz | They hired him | May 18 23:49 |
| neighborlee | wth ??????? | May 18 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Novell fired the whole team | May 18 23:49 |
| tacone | they use apparmor just because it's good right now | May 18 23:49 |
| tacone | and they can change it anytime | May 18 23:49 |
| neighborlee | if oiaohm is right , its hardly good. | May 18 23:49 |
| oiaohm | What is secuirty crap. | May 18 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Dr. Cispin Cowen his name is, IIRC | May 18 23:49 |
| tacone | they claimed to have no strong preference for it, nor they are doing too much work on that. | May 18 23:50 |
| schestowitz | *Crispin | May 18 23:50 |
| tacone | so they can change easily | May 18 23:50 |
| tacone | that's their stance | May 18 23:50 |
| oiaohm | neighborlee: apparmor was refuse merge into LInux kernel on the grounds it was flawed. | May 18 23:50 |
| neighborlee | tacone: yeah just like mono etal ;)) | May 18 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Linux secuirty developers could see how to break it. | May 18 23:50 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm: good find. | May 18 23:50 |
| oiaohm | It is documented in the mail list. | May 18 23:50 |
| neighborlee | k | May 18 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Canonical hooks Ubuntu Landscape into Amazon EC2 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/18/ubuntu_landscape_aws/ > | May 18 23:51 |
| tacone | UbuntuOne is also running on EC2 right now. | May 18 23:51 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 18 23:51 | |
| chips | oianhm, I know you are more knowledgeable on the windows securing issue than me. But it seems to me, that it can never be secure, like Linux, as too many malware has been written to take advantage of it. And it only requires slight mods to make them work again, when MS issues the patch, in some cases. Linux on the other hand, is secure by comparision | May 18 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Already posted earlier: Microsoft IIS6 bug exposes sensitive files sans password < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/18/iis6_file_pilfering_bug/ > | May 18 23:52 |
| oiaohm | http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/ This project also path based will merge into the Linux kernel. They developed the path based support up that will be included in the Linux kernel. | May 18 23:52 |
| tacone | they use the staff they produce. that's good. i believe they created landscape for themselves | May 18 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Basically if your secuirty system is depend on parts that Linux kernel developer refuse to merge worry. | May 18 23:53 |
| oiaohm | We cannot sit back and say Linux secuirty is great chips. | May 18 23:53 |
| oiaohm | It is sometime great. | May 18 23:53 |
| oiaohm | It sometimes suxs major. | May 18 23:54 |
| _boo_ | in which way? | May 18 23:54 |
| oiaohm | All depending on who built the distribution. | May 18 23:54 |
| _boo_ | i'm not too glad to enter my password at work | May 18 23:54 |
| oiaohm | And the parts they have used to offer security. | May 18 23:54 |
| _boo_ | for every concole | May 18 23:54 |
| _boo_ | mkay | May 18 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Every console is a independant entiey. | May 18 23:55 |
| chips | Oiaohm, agreed. The one place that Linux falls behind Windows in security is? I think Linus is addressing the issue of real time antivirus. | May 18 23:55 |
| _boo_ | s0 !n which way does linux security suck? | May 18 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Real time anti-virus patch is not about just real-time antivirus either. | May 18 23:55 |
| _boo_ | real-time antivirus for linux... | May 18 23:55 |
| _boo_ | dude, are you effing outta your mind? | May 18 23:56 |
| oiaohm | Real time file monitoring. | May 18 23:56 |
| chips | we will get that soon | May 18 23:56 |
| oiaohm | Is in the works _boo_ | May 18 23:56 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 18 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu One, FOSS nil < http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/dan_monsieurle/blog/2009/05/18/ubuntu_one_foss_nil > | May 18 23:56 |
| oiaohm | And real time blocking of files. | May 18 23:56 |
| _boo_ | wren't there one already? | May 18 23:56 |
| _boo_ | and is ther any need of it? | May 18 23:56 |
| oiaohm | Not main line kernel _boo_ for blocking. There were 2 file monitoring apis in the Linux kernel that conflited with each other. | May 18 23:57 |
| oiaohm | That is going to be reduced to 1. | May 18 23:57 |
| _boo_ | i just don't get either you're dreaming or you're insane | May 18 23:57 |
| chips | its why clam antivirus or clamwin (windows version) has no resident guard | May 18 23:57 |
| oiaohm | More lack of developers chips | May 18 23:57 |
| _boo_ | cool | May 18 23:57 |
| chips | at presend we linux users do not need and antivirus | May 18 23:57 |
| _boo_ | no resident guard | May 18 23:57 |
| chips | but that could change | May 18 23:57 |
| _boo_ | that's effing awesome | May 18 23:58 |
| chips | best to be prepared | May 18 23:58 |
| oiaohm | _boo_: the real time monitering is generic. | May 18 23:58 |
| _boo_ | for m$winblows antivirus | May 18 23:58 |
| oiaohm | You could use it for white listing. | May 18 23:58 |
| _boo_ | lol | May 18 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Ie checking signatures on executables. | May 18 23:58 |
| _boo_ | no? | May 18 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Before they run. | May 18 23:58 |
| _boo_ | i'm not hosting anything | May 18 23:58 |
| _boo_ | so i just use my pc for my own uses | May 18 23:59 |
| _boo_ | only p2p and stuff | May 18 23:59 |
| _boo_ | so why the f should i monitor anything? | May 18 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Also the new interface will allow multiable anti-virus and scanning running side by side with each other. | May 18 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Something Windows fails to do. | May 18 23:59 |
| _boo_ | windows fails to do almost everything | May 18 23:59 |
| oiaohm | At times you did need more than 1 virus engine to remove viruses. | May 18 23:59 |
| _boo_ | especially about security | May 18 23:59 |
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