tacone | "By "I have already worked with them to fix one interoperability issue" he means, "I told a bug reporter that I didn't care about the fact that GNote breaks th.... | May 28 00:00 |
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tacone | i can't understand the meaning of all that | May 28 00:00 |
schestowitz | The company that said it wanted to "piss on Java" to be at the conference now: http://www.h-online.com/open/JavaOne-outlook-Microsoft-to-give-first-keynote-speech--/news/113392 EE | May 28 00:00 |
schestowitz | Is this the girl called mackenzie? | May 28 00:01 |
schestowitz | Oh | May 28 00:01 |
schestowitz | I didn't notice poster's name. Maybe it's her | May 28 00:01 |
schestowitz | 9 reasons to switch from Windows to Linux < http://windows2linux.tech-no-media.com/2009/05/9-reasons-to-switch-from-windows-to.html > | May 28 00:02 |
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yuhong | On Intel and AMD, at the end of http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3559&p=14, it says that | May 28 00:06 |
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yuhong | "I'm far less concerned about who pulls ahead while overclocked and far more concerned about AMD's health at the end of all of this. Maybe the right way of looking at this isn't by talking about a 6% performance advantage, but instead talking about whether or not you want there to be a real competitor to Intel in the future. Maybe the Phenom II X4 940 should get the win here just to ensure... | May 28 00:06 |
yuhong | ...we have an AMD to talk about in a couple of years." | May 28 00:06 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 28 00:07 |
yuhong | On Intel and AMD, at the end of http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3559&p=14, it says that | May 28 00:08 |
yuhong | "I'm far less concerned about who pulls ahead while overclocked and far more concerned about AMD's health at the end of all of this. Maybe the right way of looking at this isn't by talking about a 6% performance advantage, but instead talking about whether or not you want there to be a real competitor to Intel in the future. Maybe the Phenom II X4 940 should get the win here just to ensure... | May 28 00:08 |
yuhong | ...we have an AMD to talk about in a couple of years." | May 28 00:08 |
yuhong | Considering that Intel's crimes has been discussed on BN, I think this would be a good quote. | May 28 00:09 |
yuhong | BTW, this is from a review of the Core 2 Quad Q8400. | May 28 00:11 |
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tacone | uhm | May 28 00:15 |
tacone | schestowitz: it's jo shield who raised the issue of gnote copyright | May 28 00:15 |
tacone | did you know ? | May 28 00:15 |
tacone | he didn't cited that. he raised that http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523093 | May 28 00:16 |
tacone | he claimed he even thought about packaging gnote for ubuntu, then he tried to block it to enter debian | May 28 00:20 |
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tacone | schestowitz: what a flame. i didn't read this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1125311 special guests: vadi, jo shields and miguel | May 28 00:38 |
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tessier | schestowitz: Yes. Outgoing mail is all configured now. | May 28 00:50 |
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MinceR | gn | May 28 01:08 |
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tacone | schestowitz: this is the bug mackenzie was talking about http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581844 | May 28 01:32 |
tacone | seems like the thing was over hyped by directhex | May 28 01:33 |
tacone | gnote could handle both formats, tomboy couldn't. sandy was kind enough to fix the tomboy bug and hub even thanked her. | May 28 01:35 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 28 01:53 |
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neighborlee_ | tacone, hadn't heard of that one..in what way had he hyped it exactly | May 28 02:19 |
tacone | neighborlee_: ? | May 28 02:25 |
tacone | oh | May 28 02:26 |
tacone | well, he just reported a part of the response of hub | May 28 02:26 |
tacone | hub said gnote was using glib to handle the ISO date format standard | May 28 02:26 |
tacone | and didn't say sandy admitted that tomboy crashing is a tomboy's bug. | May 28 02:27 |
tacone | hub didn't say anything about agreeing a common xml format, that's true anyway. | May 28 02:27 |
tacone | but he even thanked sandy for fixing a tomboy (!) bug. | May 28 02:27 |
neighborlee_ | tacone, ahh ok kewl gotcha..thx for that info. | May 28 02:28 |
neighborlee_ | typical | May 28 02:28 |
neighborlee_ | very typical of all he trys to do | May 28 02:28 |
tacone | neighborlee_: see my link | May 28 02:29 |
neighborlee_ | yup I did | May 28 02:29 |
tacone | ok | May 28 02:29 |
tacone | i don't like this kind of guys | May 28 02:29 |
tacone | take migues, he skips every discussion like this, makes just technical notes and otherwise run away from flaming. | May 28 02:30 |
tacone | *miguel | May 28 02:30 |
tacone | in a way, that's a correct attitude | May 28 02:30 |
neighborlee_ | of course..when you have something to hide its not wise to become so public ;)( | May 28 02:30 |
tacone | but that can't be really said of many other mono supporters imho | May 28 02:30 |
neighborlee_ | every time you do, you chance revealing your underside ;) | May 28 02:31 |
tacone | neighborlee_: be it what it is, he's behaving better than his friends. | May 28 02:31 |
neighborlee_ | That may be, but its not saying much | May 28 02:31 |
neighborlee_ | by his own actions, he attempts to undermine open source software | May 28 02:31 |
tacone | keeping you metaphor, his friends are walking in the street with the skirt up. | May 28 02:31 |
neighborlee_ | LOL | May 28 02:32 |
neighborlee_ | quite | May 28 02:32 |
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mib_qvbver | Looks like Asus is dumping Linux on their netbooks due to lack of demand | May 28 02:53 |
mib_qvbver | Oh well. Looks like a sleeper channel. No loss. I think I'll head toward one of your banner ads Roy. Hot local singles looks good. | May 28 02:57 |
mib_qvbver | Bye | May 28 02:58 |
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neighborlee_ | hmmm | May 28 03:03 |
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DaemonFC | habenero tobasco | May 28 04:19 |
DaemonFC | sweet jesus | May 28 04:20 |
DaemonFC | still gasping for air | May 28 04:29 |
DaemonFC | my sinuses should be clear for about a month | May 28 04:29 |
DaemonFC | good stuff | May 28 04:30 |
neighborlee_ | lol | May 28 04:32 |
mtnd3w | i just installed an antivirus on my ubuntu | May 28 05:16 |
mtnd3w | mononono, works great... | May 28 05:16 |
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tessier | schestowitz: Yes. Outgoing mail is all configured now. | May 28 05:25 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:HG | May 28 05:50 |
DaemonFC | .Net helping to patrol Wikipedia | May 28 05:50 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 05:50 |
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schestowitz | tessier: excellent. I get mail notifications now | May 28 07:19 |
schestowitz | Wonderful news: YouTube might get rid of Flash and use <video> instead: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/27/youtube_html5/ | May 28 07:49 |
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schestowitz | Hey, oiaohm | May 28 08:25 |
oiaohm | Hi schestowitz | May 28 08:25 |
schestowitz | We still more or less recuperate from the attacks. I hope Google will like us again. | May 28 08:25 |
schestowitz | Unavailability damages ranks. | May 28 08:26 |
oiaohm | It will repair in time. | May 28 08:30 |
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oiaohm | http://www.blendernation.com/2009/05/27/webserver-migration-fail/ << At least yours was not this schestowitz. | May 28 08:38 |
schestowitz | Week of Microsoft Government Affairs: a Look Back, a Look Ahead < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/28/microsoft-government-affairs/ > | May 28 08:40 |
schestowitz | Heh. oiaohm, what I fear more is not migration failure or digital attacks but a physical action. | May 28 08:41 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: that was a planing failure schestowitz. | May 28 08:49 |
schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090527/0359125027.shtml Honolulu Completes Internet/Telephone-Only Election | May 28 09:00 |
schestowitz | Phone??? | May 28 09:01 |
schestowitz | Texas Schools May No Longer Be Forced To Buy Physical Textbooks Just To Use Digital Ones http://techdirt.com/articles/20090524/1850534993.shtml | May 28 09:02 |
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schestowitz | Microsoft Has NASA Block GNU/Linux Users < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/28/microsoft-poisons-nasa/ > | May 28 09:37 |
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schestowitz | BC student to get his computers back after high court throws out search warrant < http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133551&source=rss_news > | May 28 10:21 |
schestowitz | GNU/Linux Gains Ground in Sub-notebooks Race as Vista 7 Gains Excessive Weight < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/28/intel-colludes-asus-endorses/ > | May 28 10:26 |
schestowitz | "Interestingly enough, otherwise, the Linux model has more and better options than the XP netbook. On the XP, your storage choices will be a 160GB hard drive or a 32GB SSD (solid state drive). For Linux, though, you also have the option of a 250GB hard drive. In addition, and this is important, on the XP system your only choice in memory is 1GB of RAM. If you go with Linux, though, you can have up to 2GBs. " | May 28 10:29 |
schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/here_comes_summers_first_linux_netbook | May 28 10:29 |
schestowitz | I think it's important to lobby NASA to get its act together. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/28/microsoft-poisons-nasa/ | May 28 10:33 |
schestowitz | Nice little tool for NIXers: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/specto-get-instant-notification-in-your-linux-machine/ (Specto: Get Instant Notifications In Your Linux Machine) | May 28 10:39 |
schestowitz | "Epitaph None" - FOX and Dollverse. http://www.dollverse.com/2009/05/epitaph-none-fox-and-dollverse.html | May 28 10:48 |
schestowitz | Funny comments here: http://torrentfreak.com/swedish-minister-takes-anti-pirate-bay-stance-090526/ | May 28 10:49 |
schestowitz | Computer Maker In Apple Copyright Suit Files For Bankruptcy < http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090526-715027.html > | May 28 10:50 |
schestowitz | Old: RIAA Sued for Price Fixing - 6 Years Later < http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9829/riaa_sued_for_price_fixing__6_years_later/ > | May 28 10:51 |
schestowitz | Very interesting list of failed cars (Vista's sibling, Edsel, is there too): http://www.manolith.com/2009/05/26/20-biggest-car-fails-of-all-time/ | May 28 10:55 |
schestowitz | Judge Takes Government to Task in Al-Haramain Spying Case < http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05/judge-takes-governme > | May 28 10:56 |
schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8392 "Another group, Americans for Prosperity Foundation, is spending $1.7 million on a similar ad campaign. In the Americans for Prosperity spots, a Canadian woman says, "As my brain tumor got worse, my government health-care system told me I had to wait six months to see a specialist."" | May 28 11:04 |
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schestowitz | Perfect corruption: tobacco companies authoring the laws that apply to them: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8393 | May 28 11:04 |
catalytic | er | May 28 11:05 |
catalytic | i thought this was a channel about novell | May 28 11:05 |
schestowitz | Sometimes it is | May 28 11:05 |
schestowitz | :-) | May 28 11:05 |
catalytic | whats the subject about anyway? | May 28 11:05 |
catalytic | exclusionary deals? | May 28 11:05 |
schestowitz | Yes, but borader than that | May 28 11:05 |
catalytic | meh | May 28 11:06 |
schestowitz | Actions taken against GNU/Linux or Free software... or freedom | May 28 11:06 |
schestowitz | Novell/MS deal being a prime example | May 28 11:06 |
catalytic | i need to write a script in visual basic that will talk to a novell NDS via active x | May 28 11:06 |
catalytic | do you know where I can get some info? | May 28 11:06 |
schestowitz | ActiveX? | May 28 11:06 |
schestowitz | Bad idea... | May 28 11:07 |
schestowitz | You're excluding like half the population. | May 28 11:07 |
catalytic | yep | May 28 11:07 |
catalytic | to be hones | May 28 11:07 |
catalytic | t | May 28 11:07 |
catalytic | im fine with excluding everyone bar the 2 people that need to use the script, myself and my boss | May 28 11:07 |
schestowitz | The next thing worse than Microsoft 'lockout software' is those spreading it, not using it | May 28 11:08 |
schestowitz | catalytic: ah, OK | May 28 11:08 |
schestowitz | Think about future issues, too | May 28 11:08 |
catalytic | sorry, dont have time | May 28 11:08 |
schestowitz | You probably want to develop something that will endure tests of time | May 28 11:08 |
schestowitz | catalytic: some people develop in this way | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | Modularity later | May 28 11:09 |
catalytic | nope | May 28 11:09 |
catalytic | its a script | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | It costs a lot | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | Even Windows | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | built without security in mind | May 28 11:09 |
catalytic | that can modify file permissions of files on an NDS | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | The WWW is a mess now because almost half of all WIndows PCs become zombies | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | ActiveX is crazy | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | It give access to files | May 28 11:09 |
catalytic | its not the next big web 2.0modularobjectivescriptinglanguage | May 28 11:09 |
schestowitz | It can delete them too | May 28 11:10 |
schestowitz | This is begging for chaos | May 28 11:10 |
schestowitz | Microsoft knew it | May 28 11:10 |
catalytic | k this is going no where | May 28 11:10 |
schestowitz | It needed Windows-only lock-in though | May 28 11:10 |
catalytic | cya | May 28 11:10 |
schestowitz | Lockin before security | May 28 11:10 |
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schestowitz | Thinking it's a Novell help group........... | May 28 11:10 |
schestowitz | Greenpeace gives Microsoft's Ballmer score of 7 -- out of 100 < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Greenpeace_gives_Microsofts_Ballmer_score_of_7_--_out_of_100_46283612.html > | May 28 11:11 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: Make X.Org pretty with DRI2 and UXA http://fosswire.com/post/2009/5/xorg-dri2-uxa/ | May 28 11:20 |
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schestowitz | Goblin seems to have developed affinity for COLA now: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/sm-or-sm2-a-short-news/ | May 28 11:51 |
schestowitz | We have another anti-shill fighter: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/26/a-few-links-points-of-interest/ | May 28 11:52 |
schestowitz | Weird headline (using the Microsoft term for AstroTurfs): Sun rolls out turbo-munchkin cluster storage box < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/sun_7310/ > | May 28 11:56 |
schestowitz | We live in an age where Internet speed is a status thing: Fight is on for better broadband < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8034359.stm > | May 28 11:58 |
schestowitz | A man called his son "Ubuntu" < http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSTRE54R08O20090528 > No child abuse here? ;-) | May 28 12:00 |
schestowitz | Wintel press journalists always manage to have some Linux-hostile h/w.. http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20090527/little-laptops-with-linux-have-compatibility-issues/ | May 28 12:04 |
schestowitz | Ben Kevan: The next US Bubble To Pop is.. The Treasury Bonds.. http://www.benkevan.com/blog/the-next-us-bubble-to-pop-is/ | May 28 12:13 |
schestowitz | re: Apple, PJ says: "May I make a suggestion? Proprietary hardware and software is a problem if you want to be free to do as you want. Why buy them? Why program for them? If you don't want veto power over you, choose FOSS. It's really the fundamental answer" http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10248736-37.html | May 28 12:25 |
schestowitz | She's being a hypocrite. She has a Mac at home, IIRC | May 28 12:25 |
tacone | me too :) | May 28 12:25 |
schestowitz | Mark Cuban potential fraudster: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-Cuban_25bus.ART.State.Edition1.40d8fbc.html | May 28 12:30 |
schestowitz | Patenting of human genes < http://iitrade.ac.in/news-detail.asp?news=719 > This is innovation??? | May 28 12:31 |
schestowitz | Judges under siege. They'd better be honest. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/24/AR2009052402931.html?nav=rss_email/components (Threats to Judges, Prosecutors Soaring) | May 28 12:33 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25300/1055/ (NetComm plans $1.65m share buyback) | May 28 12:48 |
schestowitz | Unrest in OpenSUSE Forums < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/28/opensuse-forums-departures/ > | May 28 13:13 |
schestowitz | bbl | May 28 13:13 |
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MinceR | r4wr | May 28 14:07 |
tacone | lol | May 28 14:13 |
tacone | http://www.tagesspiegel.de/meinung/kommentare/Silvio-Berlusconi-Italien;art141,2808557 | May 28 14:13 |
tacone | berlusconi proposed for the nobel prize for peace | May 28 14:13 |
tacone | apparently he could stop the 3rd world (nuclear) war to begin. | May 28 14:13 |
nicktastic | wat | May 28 14:15 |
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oiaohm | We still could have a 3rd world war without nuclear. | May 28 14:54 |
oiaohm | http://us.mcafee.com/en-us/local/docs/most_dangerous_searchterm_us.pdf Good read in fact. | May 28 14:57 |
oiaohm | Who would think searching for lyrics would be the most dangerous. | May 28 15:02 |
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schestowitz | I've just realised the IRC channel is just about 1 years old (around today) | May 28 15:42 |
neighborlee | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1169639 < still nothing | May 28 15:43 |
oiaohm | Hmm how do you throw a birthday party for a IRC channel. | May 28 15:43 |
schestowitz | Nope | May 28 15:43 |
schestowitz | Not noteworth | May 28 15:43 |
schestowitz | Not noteworthy | May 28 15:43 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: maybe everyone agrees | May 28 15:44 |
schestowitz | IOW, nobody feels like there is something to refute this | May 28 15:44 |
schestowitz | As long as it was read to raise awareness, this is good. No heckling. | May 28 15:44 |
oiaohm | I know how a birthday party is done for a website and a project. Its normally like 10 years or something like that. | May 28 15:46 |
oiaohm | neighborlee: do they have a maintainers mailing list? | May 28 15:47 |
schestowitz | Just made LT: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-05-28-017-35-OS-HE-MS | May 28 15:48 |
tacone | neighborlee: nice link (in the thread) | May 28 15:48 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, hard to say..just '42' views | May 28 15:48 |
neighborlee | and no replies of condemnation of ubuntu policy...unless we start to see fewer using ubuntu,but so far that has not come to bear | May 28 15:49 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, yes, at least no heckling.that is something :)) | May 28 15:49 |
oiaohm | https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-motu Really this is the place for the question. | May 28 15:49 |
schestowitz | C/C++ reference counting with atomic variables and gcc < http://www.alexonlinux.com/cc-reference-counting-with-atomic-variables-and-gcc > | May 28 15:50 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, but I made it expresssly clear I wasn't interested in FUd remarks, but serious explanation of policy regarding this license, so it left almost zero room for FUD remarks | May 28 15:50 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: worth it, still | May 28 15:50 |
schestowitz | More views over the long run | May 28 15:50 |
oiaohm | neighborlee: since motu should be taking resondablity to make sure that way they are doing is legal. | May 28 15:50 |
neighborlee | oiaohm, no idea | May 28 15:50 |
oiaohm | Ie master of the universe. | May 28 15:50 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: good replies can be good | May 28 15:50 |
oiaohm | The maintainers of the universe packages. | May 28 15:50 |
schestowitz | In BN, sometimes I get no replies because there is consent | May 28 15:50 |
schestowitz | People add something when they disagree | May 28 15:50 |
neighborlee | yup | May 28 15:51 |
schestowitz | Now with ranking I also can tell consent apart from dissent | May 28 15:51 |
neighborlee | I"d like to think that is the case ;) | May 28 15:51 |
schestowitz | So if ten people rank it highly and no comment is posted, that's finew | May 28 15:51 |
oiaohm | Its also making sure you area asking in the right forum. | May 28 15:51 |
schestowitz | Comments != points | May 28 15:51 |
oiaohm | If the right people are not there to provide answer you don't get answer. | May 28 15:51 |
neighborlee | oiaohm, yes I did wonder | May 28 15:51 |
schestowitz | Sometimes trolling and flaming get the MOST comments. It does not mean they are highh quality | May 28 15:51 |
neighborlee | so where is the one correct place to ask | May 28 15:52 |
oiaohm | Reason why I say the motu mailing list neighborlee | May 28 15:52 |
Eruaran | Can I comment and just post cake recipies ? | May 28 15:52 |
schestowitz | Just disruptive, drawing people on emotional rather than inforative basis | May 28 15:52 |
neighborlee | motu ? | May 28 15:52 |
oiaohm | Yep motu. | May 28 15:52 |
schestowitz | master of the universe | May 28 15:52 |
neighborlee | oh nvm..gotcha | May 28 15:52 |
neighborlee | Eruaran, lol | May 28 15:52 |
Eruaran | :P | May 28 15:52 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: sure you can! :-) | May 28 15:52 |
oiaohm | There should be for sure people in the motu who can answer neighborlee | May 28 15:52 |
schestowitz | But such comments would not add much | May 28 15:53 |
schestowitz | I get many invisuble comments | May 28 15:53 |
schestowitz | They offer viagra recipes and such | May 28 15:53 |
schestowitz | Sometimes with words like "pu**y" and "s**t" | May 28 15:53 |
schestowitz | Not the comments (spam) we need up ther | May 28 15:53 |
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mtnd3w | g'morning | May 28 15:56 |
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MinceR | gm | May 28 15:56 |
oiaohm | Particularly thinking that jo shield the recently made motu a mono supporter should be subscribed to the motu mailing list. So you should get an answer of someform neighborlee. | May 28 15:56 |
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kentma1 | schestowitz: roy u there? | May 28 15:59 |
neighborlee | oiaohm, ah iuc | May 28 15:59 |
neighborlee | ic | May 28 15:59 |
tacone | jo shield is not particulary objective | May 28 15:59 |
neighborlee | def. not LOL | May 28 16:00 |
neighborlee | all he likes to do is hurl ad hominem attack..FUD this FUD that | May 28 16:00 |
tacone | right. | May 28 16:00 |
tacone | i recently read a gnote thread on ubuntuforums | May 28 16:00 |
tacone | it was awful | May 28 16:00 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: could you /msg me wrt network access, please? | May 28 16:01 |
neighborlee | which is typical for those trying to change topic to avoid answering questions and remove focus | May 28 16:01 |
neighborlee | tacone, I dont doubt it | May 28 16:01 |
kentma1 | neighborlee: aww, surely no honest person would ever try to do that :-) | May 28 16:01 |
neighborlee | lol | May 28 16:01 |
tacone | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1125311 | May 28 16:02 |
neighborlee | kentma1, that the world was so comprised of such people.as yes...maybe one day ;))..when monetary gain is less of a issue ? ;)) | May 28 16:02 |
neighborlee | tacone, checking | May 28 16:02 |
oiaohm | neighborlee: expect everything. What use is a motu for mono if ubuntu has no mono. There is a legal way to get mono ie have a deb downloading it from novel. But then mono should be moved to restricted to be inside ubuntu rules. | May 28 16:02 |
DaemonFC | You won't get an answer from Ubuntu about anything other than "We did it. Don't like it? Tough shit." | May 28 16:02 |
kentma1 | hehe, yeah... interesting how these ideas so often lead quickly to a Utopian kind of vision... | May 28 16:02 |
schestowitz | eTechnology Again Causes American Idol Controversy, Fingers Pointed At AT&T < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090527/1059095030.shtml > | May 28 16:03 |
DaemonFC | it's a faux community project | May 28 16:03 |
schestowitz | kentma1: sure | May 28 16:03 |
tacone | also he claymed copyright violation, and tried to blog gnote to enter debian (on debian bugtracker) | May 28 16:03 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is as much of a community project in and of itself as Windows 7 | May 28 16:03 |
oiaohm | gnote is not copyright violation. It is copyright abuse but not violation. | May 28 16:03 |
DaemonFC | "We asked for your opinions, now here is what you get" | May 28 16:04 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, possible of course yes | May 28 16:04 |
oiaohm | bsd users have the same issue with Linux kernel and not being able to port some patches back. | May 28 16:04 |
schestowitz | It's not abuse | May 28 16:04 |
schestowitz | That's called "fork" | May 28 16:04 |
DaemonFC | there's not a single person that carries any weight that's not employed by Canonical | May 28 16:04 |
oiaohm | legal copyright abuse. | May 28 16:04 |
oiaohm | If someones licence allows you to do it stiff biskets. | May 28 16:05 |
neighborlee | kentma1, and thats a bad thing how exactly :)..world peace ..yeah bad stuff I know what you mean :) | May 28 16:05 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is basically Debian +Who gives a shit how this stuff is licensed? We're in a tax haven! | May 28 16:06 |
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DaemonFC | that's why it's so popular | May 28 16:06 |
mtnd3w | hello | May 28 16:06 |
DaemonFC | distributions based in countries with laws can never compete with Ubuntu on that level as long as Ubuntu doesn't have to follow those laws | May 28 16:07 |
oiaohm | Hi mtnd3w | May 28 16:07 |
tacone | no, he claimed gnote was a copyright violation | May 28 16:07 |
tacone | he wrote in his blog that debian ftp master is particularry strict these days | May 28 16:07 |
oiaohm | gnote shows up how badly tomboy performs. | May 28 16:07 |
oiaohm | Thinking its 1 to 1 code matching. | May 28 16:07 |
tacone | the truth is he raised the issue himself. and debian guys were pretty happy to deal with that and solve it | May 28 16:07 |
Eruaran | you wont believe it | May 28 16:07 |
oiaohm | Its really showing how bad mono stack is. | May 28 16:08 |
tacone | apparently it was about original code copy pasted as a comment (to keep in mind how it was) | May 28 16:08 |
DaemonFC | if the "Isle of Man" suddenly cared about copyrights and patents, Ubuntu would just incorporate in the Cayman Islands or something | May 28 16:08 |
DaemonFC | they're unethical and pretty sleazy | May 28 16:08 |
Eruaran | I listened to a bunch of americans going on about losing US sovreignty with international trade agreements | May 28 16:08 |
oiaohm | tacone: that is allowed tacone | May 28 16:08 |
neighborlee | oiaohm, yup | May 28 16:08 |
neighborlee | oiaohm, talk about salt in wound :)) | May 28 16:08 |
tacone | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523093 | May 28 16:08 |
Eruaran | I made the poitn that its usually other countries that give up their sovereignty and become subservient to US law in those agreements | May 28 16:09 |
Eruaran | and they basically said, "who cares" | May 28 16:09 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 16:09 |
DaemonFC | I don't | May 28 16:09 |
DaemonFC | and this is the sound of my little violin | May 28 16:09 |
DaemonFC | playing just for you | May 28 16:09 |
Eruaran | so, it was basically, "if our laws etc are compromised we'll make a big noise", but if its your country, "screw you" | May 28 16:10 |
oiaohm | gnote has causes a lot of developers to be leaving mono projects and be going back to good old C++ and C projects. | May 28 16:10 |
Eruaran | I'm like, erm but its your country doing the screwing... theyre perfectly happy with that | May 28 16:10 |
Eruaran | dont people realise that what goes around comes around ? | May 28 16:11 |
DaemonFC | Who cares? | May 28 16:11 |
Eruaran | If you don't have any moral stance when it comes to the principle in general | May 28 16:11 |
DaemonFC | if you don't like it, don't be a party to said agreement | May 28 16:11 |
DaemonFC | quit your bitching | May 28 16:11 |
Eruaran | Nobody is going to care when it happens to you | May 28 16:11 |
Eruaran | and it will | May 28 16:12 |
DaemonFC | anyone who could prattle on like you do doesn't understand how the central banking system works | May 28 16:12 |
oiaohm | He is a moron. tacone /* this file might still contain Tomboy code see the AUTHORS file for details */ << is contained in the complained about file so covering the file for any tomboy code in it. | May 28 16:12 |
Eruaran | has anybody read, "the right to read" by RMS ? | May 28 16:12 |
DaemonFC | so I really shouldn't waste time trying to explain it | May 28 16:12 |
Eruaran | like i said | May 28 16:13 |
Eruaran | what goes around | May 28 16:13 |
tacone | oiaohm: i'm not supporting his stance. i just pointed out the bug in bugzilla for you to read. | May 28 16:13 |
Eruaran | whats wrong with gnote ? | May 28 16:13 |
DaemonFC | No, but I'll send him "The necessity of shaving and using deodorant" and maybe he'll read it | May 28 16:14 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: perhaps you could read a nice book about manners? | May 28 16:14 |
schestowitz | Not funnt, DaemonFC | May 28 16:14 |
DaemonFC | Richard Stallman looks like he got sucked into a Jumanji board about 30 years ago | May 28 16:15 |
DaemonFC | I bet he wipes with banana leaves | May 28 16:15 |
DaemonFC | :D | May 28 16:15 |
tacone | .. | May 28 16:15 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: for all I know, you look like the back end of a bus, but I wouldn't say so, because it's rude, childish, and generally beneath me. | May 28 16:15 |
Eruaran | the scary part about "the right to read" is that the laws already exist | May 28 16:15 |
DaemonFC | no, he's making a thinly veiled case for screwing the author of books out of their royalties | May 28 16:16 |
DaemonFC | and removing all incentive for them to write any more | May 28 16:16 |
DaemonFC | RMS would have ruined every famous author and playwright in history | May 28 16:16 |
MinceR | why are we keeping this troll around again? | May 28 16:16 |
DaemonFC | with his nonsense | May 28 16:16 |
schestowitz | Wrtiters write for many reasons | May 28 16:16 |
schestowitz | Not just money | May 28 16:16 |
schestowitz | It's mostly about expression to many, first and foremost | May 28 16:17 |
DaemonFC | if they write and say "Here's all the copies you want, for free" | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | Then it opens doors to them | May 28 16:17 |
DaemonFC | that's their right | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | Same with musicians | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | Ask them | May 28 16:17 |
DaemonFC | if they say "$10 a copy" | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | Not the millionaires | May 28 16:17 |
DaemonFC | that is their right | May 28 16:17 |
Eruaran | actually | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | The 99.9% that are not millionaires | May 28 16:17 |
Eruaran | RMS doesn't have any problem with copyright | May 28 16:17 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: I didn't realise you understood so little of what RMS is about. | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | No | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | he trolls | May 28 16:17 |
schestowitz | Cause he hates RMS | May 28 16:17 |
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DaemonFC | no, he made a case for stealing copies of that Harry Potter book before they went on sale | May 28 16:18 |
kentma1 | oh, well, no hope then. Once people let their emotions take control, it's game over from the rationality viewpoint. | May 28 16:18 |
DaemonFC | and scanning them | May 28 16:18 |
DaemonFC | and distributing them illegally | May 28 16:18 |
DaemonFC | I know all of what that kook is about | May 28 16:18 |
schestowitz | He said no such thing | May 28 16:18 |
DaemonFC | and I like very little of it | May 28 16:18 |
oiaohm | Eruaran: nothing legally mono supporter being a moron nothing more. | May 28 16:18 |
schestowitz | he's against the book | May 28 16:18 |
schestowitz | You're being immature now | May 28 16:18 |
DaemonFC | since we can't pirate it, just boycott it | May 28 16:19 |
schestowitz | Like those idiots who take RMS' words out of context to say he endorses pedophilia | May 28 16:19 |
DaemonFC | is basically his argument | May 28 16:19 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: have you actually read/heard what he said, or are you working on some kind of heresay? | May 28 16:19 |
DaemonFC | it's on his blog | May 28 16:19 |
kentma1 | what is? | May 28 16:19 |
schestowitz | There are many books to read other than Harry Potter | May 28 16:19 |
schestowitz | He didn't say "steal it" | May 28 16:19 |
DaemonFC | his "We can't pirate it, so boycott it" diatrabe about the Harry Potter book | May 28 16:19 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: she me | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | *Show me | May 28 16:20 |
Eruaran | I've never heard RMS argue against copyrights for authors, artists, musicians etc | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | "We can't pirate it, so boycott it" != "steal it" | May 28 16:20 |
oiaohm | RMS supports copyright. | May 28 16:20 |
DaemonFC | http://stallman.org/harry-potter.html | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | He won't say "pirate" | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | He hates th word pirate | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | Say "share" | May 28 16:20 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: i'd be surprised if he'd said "pirate". | May 28 16:20 |
DaemonFC | I ended up buying the full set just because of that article | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | "I can't share the book I like, so I won't bother reading it..." | May 28 16:20 |
kentma1 | that would be BPI/FACT language. | May 28 16:20 |
schestowitz | If a site put articles that I cannot apply FAIR USE to, I'd boycott it | May 28 16:21 |
schestowitz | Or avoid it rather | May 28 16:21 |
schestowitz | Like I do with Associated Press | May 28 16:21 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: where is this text, please? I'm on his blog now. | May 28 16:21 |
schestowitz | A mummy sharing a book with her 8-y-o is not "piracy" | May 28 16:21 |
schestowitz | It's sharing a book | May 28 16:21 |
schestowitz | She can also read it to him | May 28 16:21 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: It's like that annoying vegetarian on Youtube, there was a guy that said "Every time he posts, by a double cheeseburger at McDonalds and throw it out your window" | May 28 16:21 |
DaemonFC | so I do | May 28 16:22 |
schestowitz | Or speak out the plot from memory | May 28 16:22 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 16:22 |
oiaohm | RMS believes in the right to share and usage under the fair use provisions of copy right. | May 28 16:22 |
schestowitz | Should she be waterboarded? | May 28 16:22 |
DaemonFC | I think it's hilarious | May 28 16:22 |
DaemonFC | *buy | May 28 16:22 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: where is this text, please? | May 28 16:22 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I saw that video. LOL !! | May 28 16:22 |
oiaohm | fair use does not let you copy the complete book. | May 28 16:22 |
oiaohm | But you can take quotes and the like from it. | May 28 16:22 |
schestowitz | Some name like Ognicious. | May 28 16:22 |
Eruaran | A lawyer who says, "There is no human right to read." violates the UN Resolution on human rights | May 28 16:22 |
DaemonFC | Ignoramus | May 28 16:22 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 16:22 |
schestowitz | Fair use if free advertising | May 28 16:23 |
schestowitz | Like book chapters being put online for people to read and want the book | May 28 16:23 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: where is this text, please? | May 28 16:23 |
MinceR | he can't show sources, ever | May 28 16:23 |
schestowitz | Of course | May 28 16:23 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: It's not unfair for a vendor to set street dates | May 28 16:23 |
DaemonFC | most stores set it so they can't ring any of them up til that date | May 28 16:23 |
DaemonFC | so they don't have to pay the fines for selling them early | May 28 16:24 |
kentma1 | On July 13, 2005, Canadians were ordered not to read books that were sold to them "by mistake" . | May 28 16:24 |
kentma1 | is this it? | May 28 16:24 |
Eruaran | you cant "order" people not to read | May 28 16:24 |
kentma1 | The one where people had bought a book, but were then told that they were not allowed to read it? | May 28 16:24 |
oiaohm | Techincally you cannot do that kentma1. | May 28 16:24 |
DaemonFC | and that was in accordance with the law | May 28 16:25 |
tacone | guess susan linked the mononono | May 28 16:25 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: I find that very doubtful in deed. | May 28 16:25 |
oiaohm | You can request yes. | May 28 16:25 |
Eruaran | If someone wants to prosecute me for reading a book I bought, I'll see you in court. | May 28 16:25 |
DaemonFC | kentma1: Where EXACTLY is your masterpiece that you intend to give away freely? | May 28 16:25 |
oiaohm | You can get a injection preventing publishiion about the book. | May 28 16:25 |
DaemonFC | much less entire series? | May 28 16:25 |
DaemonFC | til then, stfu | May 28 16:25 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: sorry, bizarre subject change? | May 28 16:25 |
oiaohm | But you cannot prevent reading of the item. | May 28 16:26 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: no, you stfu | May 28 16:26 |
oiaohm | If person has it. | May 28 16:26 |
tacone | yes she did | May 28 16:26 |
kentma1 | are you talking about the bit where people bought a book, and then had the weight of the law upon them to stop them from reading it? | May 28 16:26 |
DaemonFC | no, I see you bitching about it, but you would do the same thing | May 28 16:26 |
DaemonFC | in that positionm | May 28 16:26 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: this is like stalinist Soviet Union! | May 28 16:26 |
kentma1 | burn the books! | May 28 16:26 |
oiaohm | kentma1: basically you cannot. | May 28 16:26 |
kentma1 | don't read! | May 28 16:26 |
MinceR | lol | May 28 16:26 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: that was my feeling, too. | May 28 16:26 |
Eruaran | If the cat is out of the bag, its out of the bag. | May 28 16:27 |
oiaohm | You can have a injuntion that if you write about the book in a blog or something else you are screwed. | May 28 16:27 |
Eruaran | You don't prosecute your readers, your customers. | May 28 16:27 |
DaemonFC | they should have used the section of their contract dealing with early sales to fine the stores that did it | May 28 16:27 |
DaemonFC | for every single copy | May 28 16:27 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: perhaps, but that's got nothing to do with the people who'd bought the books, has it? | May 28 16:27 |
oiaohm | Ie read but not talk about it kentma1 is permited under most countries laws. | May 28 16:27 |
DaemonFC | that's where I would have gone with that | May 28 16:27 |
oiaohm | Other wise injections could interfer with legal cases. | May 28 16:28 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: agreed. It's okay to listen to any broadcast in the UK, including "secret" ones, so long as you don't tell anyone what you heard. | May 28 16:28 |
DaemonFC | a gag order is nothing new either | May 28 16:28 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: so you agree with RMS, then. | May 28 16:28 |
neighborlee | tacone, I really liked Methuselah's reply: " Are you suggesting that Tomboy isn't released under and open source license?" LOL ;)) | May 28 16:28 |
Eruaran | If you have an agreement, a contract with someone, then for sure you can sue them for breach of contract. But you can't prosecute customers, the people who bought your book. And you can't order them not to read it, that is bizarre. | May 28 16:28 |
tacone | neighborlee: in the ubuntuforums thread ? | May 28 16:29 |
DaemonFC | I'm saying I would have fined the stores for every early copy they sold then I would have petitioned for a gag order so that I could easily deal with people that leaked information about it online | May 28 16:29 |
DaemonFC | but I'm not saying I agree with RMS | May 28 16:29 |
tacone | actually i have to credit migues to have been more considerate than his friends. | May 28 16:29 |
DaemonFC | that doesn't happen often | May 28 16:29 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: ah, back to stalinism, then. You'd've got along with Beria handsomely. | May 28 16:29 |
kentma1 | Beria had some better ideas, though - don't just use the law, use the gulags - that keeps them quiet. | May 28 16:30 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: I'd no idea you were so left-wing. | May 28 16:30 |
oiaohm | That would have been the legal way DaemonFC | May 28 16:30 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: or is it right wing - I'm never sure... | May 28 16:30 |
Eruaran | Oh but wait, you're not allowed to comment unless you've written a masterpiece. | May 28 16:30 |
kentma1 | extreme, anyway. | May 28 16:30 |
DaemonFC | how exactly is is wrong to sue for breach of contract? | May 28 16:30 |
Eruaran | now there's a nice little logical fallacy for you | May 28 16:30 |
DaemonFC | the stores were not forced to sign that contract | May 28 16:30 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: well, I'm published in a chapter in a book on satellite networking, fyi. | May 28 16:31 |
kentma1 | I can get you the ISBN so that you can buy it, if you'd like to. | May 28 16:31 |
oiaohm | Also there is another reason why its forbin to make it illegel to read books. | May 28 16:31 |
oiaohm | How can you check the quality of provided items if you cannot inspect them. | May 28 16:31 |
kentma1 | Personally, I couldn't care less if someone does copy it, in fact, I'd be amazed if some folk haven't grabbed bits of it at some point or other - if they hadn't, my writing it was a waste of time and effort. | May 28 16:31 |
oiaohm | Contact can only limit you means to talk about closed documents. | May 28 16:32 |
neighborlee | tacone, yup | May 28 16:32 |
Eruaran | A journalist tried to stir up trouble for Bob Dylan | May 28 16:32 |
oiaohm | Ok talk and use inforamtion in closed documents. | May 28 16:32 |
DaemonFC | it is illegal to publish some things | May 28 16:32 |
DaemonFC | or to possess the works | May 28 16:32 |
Eruaran | In case you don't know, Bob is a voracious reader | May 28 16:32 |
DaemonFC | if I made a book on how to make pipe bombs for example | May 28 16:32 |
Eruaran | And he sometimes quotes people without attribution simply becuase he has forgotten where it came from | May 28 16:33 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: again, you're getting very much into the "control" side of things. very Stalinist. | May 28 16:33 |
Eruaran | He just remembers a line and puts it in a song | May 28 16:33 |
kentma1 | HMG made a disaster of such thinking with the book "spycatcher". | May 28 16:33 |
Eruaran | Well | May 28 16:33 |
Eruaran | He quoted a japanese writer | May 28 16:33 |
DaemonFC | so you think that pipe bomb manuals should float around freely? | May 28 16:33 |
MinceR | i think they should | May 28 16:33 |
oiaohm | Funny enough most places its not illegal to have a book on making explosive devices. It is illegal to publish it openly. | May 28 16:33 |
oiaohm | Its a usage limit DaemonFC | May 28 16:33 |
Eruaran | a journalist paid the writer a visit and tried to stir up a copyright dispute | May 28 16:34 |
kentma1 | I read it, it was quite good and entertaining, but hardly any threat to national security - rather, it illustrated why governments need to have their power limited. | May 28 16:34 |
DaemonFC | North Korea amuses me | May 28 16:34 |
Eruaran | but the visit backfired... When the writer found out that Bob Dylan had quoted a couple of lines from his book, he was absolutely delighted | May 28 16:34 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: have you read much about the Soviet Union and how it was managed, or, for that matter, Nazi Germany, which was run much the same way? | May 28 16:34 |
oiaohm | I had making worse items than pipe bombs but I was using them for tree removal and the like. | May 28 16:34 |
DaemonFC | they act like they are in a position to be belligerent | May 28 16:34 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: they *are* in a position to be belligerent. | May 28 16:35 |
DaemonFC | I'm not huge on the idea of nation building | May 28 16:35 |
oiaohm | If I published the documents on how to make them even today I would be screwed. | May 28 16:35 |
neighborlee | tacone, MAN, the fud team were out en m asse on that thread weren't theyLOL | May 28 16:35 |
DaemonFC | I'm more for leveling their infrastructure from sea or air or space | May 28 16:35 |
DaemonFC | then leaving them broken | May 28 16:35 |
neighborlee | tacone, not done readingyet..but Iwonder if anyone caught the ecma point or justlet it go...that is SO relevant now with the iwire catch. | May 28 16:36 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: ah, like last time... hehe. You need to study more history, then you can come back and explain why that idea has never, and will never, work. | May 28 16:36 |
tacone | neighborlee: yes, pretty amazing thread. | May 28 16:36 |
DaemonFC | costs you some bombs to rearrange the shit every once in a while | May 28 16:36 |
DaemonFC | but no casualties | May 28 16:36 |
tacone | neighborlee: even schestowitz tried to obtain a license from microsoft. | May 28 16:36 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: and no effect, either. | May 28 16:36 |
DaemonFC | no, we could easily destroy the government and infrastructure of Iran and North Korea | May 28 16:36 |
MinceR | "no casualties"? keep on dreaming. | May 28 16:36 |
DaemonFC | without any loss in men | May 28 16:36 |
kentma1 | other than, of course, a huge invasion, and missiles with big warheads landing on "friendly" countries, and another disastrous US incursion into an Asian country. | May 28 16:37 |
DaemonFC | it would be trivial | May 28 16:37 |
kentma1 | haha! | May 28 16:37 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: if a mil or a bomb desposals .... or someone did have a valid reason non human harming reason for making a pipe bomb(rabit warron clearing was popular here). Most countries have the information becomes legal. | May 28 16:37 |
DaemonFC | they're acting this way because they aren't afraid that Obama would have the balls to do it | May 28 16:37 |
kentma1 | Look at what happened to Nixon and why. | May 28 16:37 |
DaemonFC | I never said boots on the ground | May 28 16:37 |
DaemonFC | I said b low them to hell | May 28 16:37 |
DaemonFC | and leave | May 28 16:37 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: like last time, right? | May 28 16:37 |
oiaohm | Its having information without valid reason is what gets people into trouble. | May 28 16:37 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: only this time, it'll be different, of course. | May 28 16:38 |
kentma1 | this time it'll work by magic. | May 28 16:38 |
kentma1 | doh. | May 28 16:38 |
DaemonFC | I would support just nuking Afghanistan | May 28 16:38 |
DaemonFC | and calling it even | May 28 16:38 |
DaemonFC | seriously | May 28 16:38 |
oiaohm | Nukes have no place to be used. | May 28 16:39 |
kentma1 | So, you'll stop people reading books, use the law to stop people communicating, and will happily bomb millions of people. I can't say you're endearing yourself to this particular part of your audience. | May 28 16:39 |
oiaohm | We have nasty enough weapons without the. | May 28 16:39 |
DaemonFC | Evacuate, nuke the site from orbit......it's the only way to be sure. | May 28 16:39 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: you should've been in Soviet Russia - you would've done well. | May 28 16:39 |
DaemonFC | (favorite lin e from Aliens) | May 28 16:39 |
oiaohm | Fuel bomb the complete area. | May 28 16:39 |
neighborlee | tacone, yup | May 28 16:39 |
oiaohm | It will kill every human it it plaints will still be alive. | May 28 16:40 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: that's a *film* - are you having trouble separating film from reality? | May 28 16:40 |
oiaohm | To be correct they will grow well. | May 28 16:40 |
DaemonFC | how about neutron bombs? | May 28 16:40 |
neighborlee | tacone, they are all just running scared now, that the FOSS community is answering mono threat , with real OSS ;))lol | May 28 16:40 |
DaemonFC | those kill with gamma ray bursts | May 28 16:40 |
DaemonFC | very little fallou | May 28 16:40 |
oiaohm | neutron bombs kills humans and plaints. | May 28 16:40 |
oiaohm | Leaves buildings. | May 28 16:40 |
DaemonFC | but there's nothing in Afghanistan worth conquering | May 28 16:40 |
neighborlee | to the power of the community, to thwart hostile takeovers from unscrupulous entities ;)) | May 28 16:40 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: nobody knows, because nobody has ever conquered afganistan. | May 28 16:41 |
DaemonFC | makes me wonder why the British, the Soviets, and now us, well, EVERYONE since Alexander the Great wanted the place so bad | May 28 16:41 |
neighborlee | and that includes people that back them ;) | May 28 16:41 |
oiaohm | What did the plants do to use DaemonFC | May 28 16:41 |
DaemonFC | it's like the ass end of nowhere | May 28 16:41 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: drugs. The opium triangle - you are sorely lacking in history... | May 28 16:41 |
DaemonFC | you can grow opium anywhere | May 28 16:41 |
oiaohm | Tasmania here grows opium | May 28 16:41 |
DaemonFC | they grow a lot of it because it's one of the few things that makes any money that can grow there | May 28 16:41 |
oiaohm | Its quite a well paying crop by the way. | May 28 16:42 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: go on then, - get doing it in your back garden, and see where it gets you. | May 28 16:42 |
oiaohm | Its purely used for making medical drugs. | May 28 16:42 |
oiaohm | Everything is double sided kentma1 | May 28 16:42 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: oh, at least, in fact, probably multi-faceted. | May 28 16:42 |
DaemonFC | kentma1: Privacy fence | May 28 16:42 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: ? | May 28 16:42 |
DaemonFC | why would anyone know what I have going on back there? | May 28 16:42 |
oiaohm | If you want the best altuded sickness cure on earth you want the raw leaf cocane comes from. | May 28 16:43 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: and how will you industrialise this process? | May 28 16:43 |
DaemonFC | I could convert my toolshed perhaps | May 28 16:43 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: coke products are used in medicine here. | May 28 16:43 |
DaemonFC | but where WILL I put the meth lab? | May 28 16:43 |
DaemonFC | lol | May 28 16:43 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: to make how much? Enough to fill a ship? | May 28 16:43 |
DaemonFC | don't have to, I am just one person | May 28 16:43 |
DaemonFC | marijuana grows rather well here | May 28 16:44 |
DaemonFC | it's in season too | May 28 16:44 |
oiaohm | You can go threw all the illegal drugs any taken from nature has a legal use. | May 28 16:44 |
oiaohm | marijuana based drug is used in treating some eye conditions. | May 28 16:44 |
kentma1 | Good, well spotted. Now connect that remark to the one about "it's just cocaine", and connect that to the one about why people invade Afganistan, and you'll be getting close to answering your own question. Look up the opium triangle in a history book, and that will explain a lot for you. | May 28 16:44 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, I wonder if anyone ever considered salt | May 28 16:45 |
DaemonFC | wouldn't that stop things from growing? | May 28 16:45 |
schestowitz | Town halls hire citizen snoopers as young as SEVEN to spy on neighbours and report wrongs http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1183796/Town-halls-hire-citizen-snoopers-young-SEVEN-spy-neighbours-report-wrongs.html | May 28 16:45 |
oiaohm | Depends on the plants DaemonFC some love salt. | May 28 16:45 |
DaemonFC | fill up a bunch of C-5 Galaxy cargo planes with salt | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | and let loose | May 28 16:46 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: to what end? | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | or pesticide? | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | errr | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | herbacide | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | rather | May 28 16:46 |
oiaohm | Tonage of salt you are talking about would be insane. | May 28 16:46 |
oiaohm | Round up. | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | I don't know, just air drop something on it | May 28 16:46 |
DaemonFC | lots of something | May 28 16:46 |
schestowitz | Paper money | May 28 16:47 |
oiaohm | Just hope not to have the effects naparm did. | May 28 16:47 |
DaemonFC | take whatever kills opium for years and years and just hose it down | May 28 16:47 |
kentma1 | I don't think our friend DaemonFC has any clue about the area of countries like North Korea, or, for that matter, Afganistan. | May 28 16:47 |
schestowitz | That's what counts in the US | May 28 16:47 |
schestowitz | Even if it's unhinged from gold (since 71) | May 28 16:47 |
DaemonFC | since before that | May 28 16:47 |
oiaohm | Find a natural preditor of opium | May 28 16:47 |
oiaohm | Breed the bugger and release them. | May 28 16:47 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: that was done long ago... | May 28 16:47 |
DaemonFC | we overthrew the UK and went on to establish their worst institutions | May 28 16:47 |
kentma1 | oh, they breed. | May 28 16:47 |
DaemonFC | central bank anyone? | May 28 16:48 |
schestowitz | Fed | May 28 16:48 |
schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2009/05/27/uk-tory-mp-added-a-s.html (UK Tory MP added a servant's wing to his house at taxpayers' expense) | May 28 16:48 |
DaemonFC | yeah | May 28 16:48 |
schestowitz | What are their products? | May 28 16:48 |
DaemonFC | now that's funny | May 28 16:48 |
schestowitz | Do they have a .com site? | May 28 16:48 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the US's problems are of its own making. Corruption seems to be the biggest, though. | May 28 16:48 |
schestowitz | With CEO Greenspan? | May 28 16:48 |
DaemonFC | the United States is as much a victim of this as anyone | May 28 16:49 |
schestowitz | U.S. Manga Obscenity Conviction Roils Comics World http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/05/manga-porn/ | May 28 16:49 |
DaemonFC | what you don't get is how many countries have let so few in charge ruin so many | May 28 16:49 |
schestowitz | Don't worry | May 28 16:49 |
schestowitz | Human civilisation will last through your lifetime | May 28 16:50 |
oiaohm | http://www.cbn.nic.in/html/opiumcbn.htm << There are many ways to screw opium plants DaemonFC | May 28 16:50 |
DaemonFC | civilization is just the foot in the door for a ruling class | May 28 16:50 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the US is the progenitor of the present financial problems; not the least of which being the vast debt the US is in. Basically, the US is owned by China and the EU. | May 28 16:50 |
schestowitz | Chrysler’s Plan: $448M for EVs http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/chryslers/ | May 28 16:50 |
oiaohm | None require that bad of poisons DaemonFC | May 28 16:50 |
DaemonFC | that's ignorance | May 28 16:51 |
DaemonFC | the US is not the federal reserve | May 28 16:51 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: be careful googleing "opium" :-D | May 28 16:51 |
schestowitz | *googling | May 28 16:51 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the debt belongs to the people, I'm afraid. | May 28 16:51 |
DaemonFC | the fed and the federal reserve is not the only problem | May 28 16:51 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: basic economics. | May 28 16:51 |
DaemonFC | \far from it | May 28 16:51 |
schestowitz | Federal Deserves -) | May 28 16:51 |
kentma1 | Indeed it does! | May 28 16:52 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: if you really want to get a visit from a bobby, google "how to build a bomb" | May 28 16:52 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: do you think that would bring the boys in blue around to the door? | May 28 16:52 |
DaemonFC | The only thing that protects from some of the abuses of the president and congress is the supreme court | May 28 16:53 |
schestowitz | Depends on the profile | May 28 16:53 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: it could make resarching chemistry quite hard. | May 28 16:53 |
DaemonFC | but even asking them to hear a case can take years | May 28 16:53 |
schestowitz | Had that been DaemonFC, certainyluy | May 28 16:53 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the US legal system is corrupt. | May 28 16:53 |
DaemonFC | and they only have the authority to strike a lw if it is unconstitutional | May 28 16:53 |
schestowitz | I give em 15 minutes to come round with the sirens | May 28 16:53 |
schestowitz | Going Commando on Ryan. | May 28 16:53 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: not sure I'll find out :-) | May 28 16:53 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: one problem is the political appointment of judges - dreadful idea. | May 28 16:54 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: another problem is the whole concept of a president - really really bad idea. | May 28 16:54 |
schestowitz | They have Phorm too | May 28 16:54 |
schestowitz | With endorsement from some company *wink* | May 28 16:54 |
DaemonFC | well, they do sometimes strike horrible laws down, or at least portions of them | May 28 16:54 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: far too much power in single individuals, who then get 5-10 years to have a ball, with zero controls. | May 28 16:54 |
schestowitz | Profiles built using the private sector ! There's lots of savings right there | May 28 16:54 |
DaemonFC | I think that the office of president should be made less powerful, not eliminated | May 28 16:54 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: yeah, true :-) | May 28 16:54 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: unlikely. I already know how to make a bomb worse than google can answer and the police know. So they would think I would be doing to laugh at idiots out there. | May 28 16:55 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the Irish have it better, they have a figurehead, like our Queen. Powerless. Perfect. | May 28 16:55 |
schestowitz | kentma1: presidents are needed | May 28 16:55 |
schestowitz | Like Bishops and Gods | May 28 16:55 |
schestowitz | People glorify a person | May 28 16:55 |
schestowitz | Some use actors | May 28 16:55 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: nah, a figurehead is... could be anything. | May 28 16:55 |
DaemonFC | actually, I might be rusty on this..... | May 28 16:55 |
schestowitz | It's something in human nature | May 28 16:55 |
DaemonFC | doesn't a sovereign have the ability to dissolve the elected government? | May 28 16:55 |
schestowitz | To admire some person and to scare the hell of of him/her with obsession | May 28 16:55 |
DaemonFC | hence the title? | May 28 16:56 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the Germans do it quite well. | May 28 16:56 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: no | May 28 16:56 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: or, at least, only in an honorary sense. | May 28 16:56 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: they don't really have any power. | May 28 16:56 |
DaemonFC | constitutionally I think I remember something about that | May 28 16:56 |
DaemonFC | so what would happen if she tried it? | May 28 16:56 |
schestowitz | Who overthrows those wielding power? | May 28 16:57 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: she wouldn't, because it would cause a crisis, and probably result in the abolishment of the monarchy all together. | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Like the Rockefellers? | May 28 16:57 |
DaemonFC | constitutional crisis! yay! | May 28 16:57 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the monarchy is tolerated by many people here, nothing more. When it goes wrong, it comes under huge pressure. | May 28 16:57 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: to a point, which is why it won't happen. | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Check this out: 'charity' job for £34,300 | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Director of Operations | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Recruiter Computer Aid International | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Location London, South East England | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Salary £34,300 per annum | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Sector Charity & Voluntary - Senior Management | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Job Type Permanent | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Date 07 May | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | Applications 7 | May 28 16:57 |
schestowitz | http://www.reed.co.uk/job-details/London/Charity-Voluntary/Director-of-Operations/?JobID=17884825&l=London%2c+South+East+England&s=500&ns=True&ps=50&lit=4&WT.mc_id=Agg-Jobisjob | May 28 16:57 |
DaemonFC | I believe Canada will ditch that system when she dies | May 28 16:57 |
DaemonFC | they can do that be not choosing a successor | May 28 16:58 |
DaemonFC | there's already quite a movement to get rid of the monarchy now | May 28 16:58 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: I hope not - Canada has major problems already with the Canada act and Montreal/Quebec; trying to change the governmental system would be terrible, particularly as they have a parliamentary system at the moment. | May 28 16:58 |
schestowitz | Those volunteers who toil night and day... | May 28 16:58 |
schestowitz | Charging 70 quid for recycling an old PC | May 28 16:58 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: there's also huge support for it, too. | May 28 16:59 |
schestowitz | Now we know it just pays wages for people who merely menage volunteers | May 28 16:59 |
schestowitz | Don't even show up at the scene. | May 28 16:59 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the problem is that Canadians only have to look at the US to see the alternative. It doesn't usually take them long to realise how good they have it (Canadians). | May 28 16:59 |
schestowitz | Dishonest to say the least | May 28 16:59 |
DaemonFC | Quebec will be in limbo forever unless the other provin ces agree to let them go | May 28 16:59 |
schestowitz | The whole 'charity' classification' needs more stern scrutiny | May 28 16:59 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: it's not in limbo now. | May 28 16:59 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: if the dominion breaks up, then Quebec is left as a relatively insignificant country. Not much good, really. | May 28 17:00 |
oiaohm | So far we have not seen a charity arms maker. | May 28 17:00 |
oiaohm | That is about the only thing missing so far. | May 28 17:00 |
DaemonFC | a US state may not secede, ever, the constitution would need to be changed, and that takes 2/3rds of Congress, the president, and 3/5ths of the states passing it with a super majority in their house and senate and the governor's signatures | May 28 17:01 |
DaemonFC | it's really quite hard to do | May 28 17:01 |
oiaohm | LOL | May 28 17:02 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: it's also quite hard to leave Canada. | May 28 17:02 |
DaemonFC | an amendment has to be pretty much universally agreed on to ever stand a chnce | May 28 17:02 |
oiaohm | You try changing the constitution here. | May 28 17:02 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: again, look at the history. | May 28 17:02 |
DaemonFC | the Republicans have their gay marriage ban every session PURELY for theater | May 28 17:02 |
DaemonFC | it couldn't pass | May 28 17:02 |
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kentma1 | DaemonFC: which rather indicates the kind of problems the US has, to my mind. | May 28 17:02 |
oiaohm | You have to get it past the goverments of each state and the central goverment. | May 28 17:02 |
DaemonFC | that's why they have passed statutes which are constitutionally shaky | May 28 17:03 |
DaemonFC | and could be overturned by judicial review | May 28 17:03 |
oiaohm | And them past a vote of the people. | May 28 17:03 |
oiaohm | So far about of the 400 attempts only 1 made it. | May 28 17:03 |
DaemonFC | the states can vote to put it to popular vote | May 28 17:03 |
DaemonFC | but they don't have to | May 28 17:03 |
DaemonFC | and it would only happen in the states that chose to | May 28 17:03 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: that, also, looks like a huge flaw to me. Why are the judiciary - the seniors of which are political appointees, reviewing democratically selected laws? this is totally broken. | May 28 17:03 |
neighborlee | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7361526#post7361526 < more fud from detractors of rights to post on slighty old threads just because the truth is inconvenient I guess ;)) | May 28 17:03 |
oiaohm | Here it has to go to a full country vote. | May 28 17:03 |
oiaohm | And get more than 60 percent approval. | May 28 17:04 |
DaemonFC | kentma1: They only have the ability to strike something if it violates the constitution | May 28 17:04 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: it's good to have significant inertia for big decisions, though - that way, people don't do silly things. | May 28 17:04 |
DaemonFC | and only the particular part that does | May 28 17:04 |
neighborlee | that thread even woke up miguel himself LOL ;)) | May 28 17:04 |
neighborlee | twice.. | May 28 17:04 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: okay, but even that is, in the end, a matter of opinion. | May 28 17:04 |
DaemonFC | and a new law can be passed that doesn't violate that provision | May 28 17:04 |
neighborlee | good signs! | May 28 17:04 |
DaemonFC | they typically are slanted towards believing it to be constitutional and only striking the parts that clearly aren't | May 28 17:05 |
oiaohm | And final queen of england/australian can force it to go threw process twice. | May 28 17:05 |
kentma1 | neighborlee: excellent signs, yes. | May 28 17:05 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: queen wouldn't do that. | May 28 17:05 |
oiaohm | Has once. | May 28 17:05 |
oiaohm | But was right to. | May 28 17:05 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: exactly - a matter of opinion, which is why the whole thing is so broken. | May 28 17:06 |
DaemonFC | you can see their past rulings to see that they use that power sparingly | May 28 17:06 |
*mtnd3w has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 28 17:06 | |
oiaohm | More inforamation had come to light about the effects of the change since the first time around. | May 28 17:06 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: let me qualify - queen would only do so if asked to by HMGA | May 28 17:06 |
DaemonFC | well, I've seen them strike some obviously bad stuff | May 28 17:06 |
DaemonFC | that never should have m ade it to the president to begin with | May 28 17:06 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: It remains wrong, anti-democractic, and basically broken. | May 28 17:07 |
DaemonFC | what happens is you get a Republican controlled congress with a guy like Bush | May 28 17:07 |
DaemonFC | and the unconstitutional laws just zip through before balance can be restored | May 28 17:07 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: back to my earlier point - the presidential system is just awful. | May 28 17:07 |
DaemonFC | you notice how much damage they did and ONLY controlled congress for less than 2 years? | May 28 17:08 |
schestowitz | The Microsoft shills are buy in Wikipedia spinning again: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/PlanetODF/~3/NnMQxWqMCzA/index.php | May 28 17:08 |
schestowitz | /buy/busy/ | May 28 17:08 |
DaemonFC | they moved fast because they knew they had to get their most unconstitutional stuff through | May 28 17:08 |
DaemonFC | right away | May 28 17:08 |
oiaohm | Really to alter the USA is not that complex of a process. | May 28 17:08 |
oiaohm | Just no one ever gets the numbers to. | May 28 17:09 |
DaemonFC | election reform would be the only way to fix this | May 28 17:09 |
DaemonFC | and the elected officials will never change the system that got them in | May 28 17:09 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: parliamentary democracies are a much better bet. government by committee is far superior for avoiding serious excesses. | May 28 17:09 |
DaemonFC | and keeps their party in power | May 28 17:09 |
oiaohm | First start getting every one voting. | May 28 17:09 |
DaemonFC | won't help | May 28 17:09 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: which would probably entail needing to move to PR instead of FPTP | May 28 17:09 |
DaemonFC | ballot access laws shut out third party candidates | May 28 17:09 |
oiaohm | So that you don't have 20 percent of people voting who are control be media controling everything. | May 28 17:09 |
DaemonFC | no, more like 60% voting | May 28 17:10 |
DaemonFC | in presidential election years anyway | May 28 17:10 |
DaemonFC | that goes down to maybe 30% when it's just congress | May 28 17:10 |
DaemonFC | give or take | May 28 17:10 |
schestowitz | ODF Foundation (defunct) still pushing the MS line.. http://openstack.blogspot.com/2009/05/openweb-05252009-am.html | May 28 17:10 |
oiaohm | Next get a group of people people can support. | May 28 17:10 |
oiaohm | That is a big problem. | May 28 17:10 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Doesn't help | May 28 17:10 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: your presidential elections are won on the size of the budget of the candidate, though, hence the media is the key. | May 28 17:10 |
DaemonFC | with electoral college and ballot access laws, it shuts out 3rd parties | May 28 17:11 |
DaemonFC | before they get off the ground | May 28 17:11 |
kentma1 | electoral colleges are another great bit of anti-democracy. | May 28 17:11 |
DaemonFC | if I can only get on the ballot in 30 states, and my opponents are on the ballot in all 50 | May 28 17:11 |
DaemonFC | I've already lost | May 28 17:11 |
DaemonFC | that's before the electoral college skews it more | May 28 17:12 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: dump your president. you'd be much better off, just don't have one. | May 28 17:12 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: just pick a prime senator or congressman or whichever it is, tell him to set up a cabinet, and off you go. | May 28 17:12 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: make the white house into a museum, and charge tourists for looking round it. | May 28 17:13 |
kentma1 | you could have ex-presidents as tour-guides for VIPs. | May 28 17:13 |
schestowitz | Hmmmm. this one popped up too late.. http://thecoffeedesk.com/news/index.php/2008/10/13/open-offices-servers-buckle-under-version-3s-demand/ | May 28 17:13 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: or we would lease you some "queen" time. | May 28 17:14 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: if you ask nicely. | May 28 17:14 |
schestowitz | Buy em iPods | May 28 17:14 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: and join the commonwealth. | May 28 17:14 |
schestowitz | with DRM obstacles | May 28 17:14 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: mono warning. http://www.mindby.com/2009/5/Tomboy-Snowy-Nirvana | May 28 17:16 |
DaemonFC | uhhhm, does the phrase "Over my rotting corpse" mean anything? | May 28 17:16 |
DaemonFC | :p | May 28 17:16 |
DaemonFC | hehe | May 28 17:16 |
schestowitz | They can't kill you | May 28 17:16 |
schestowitz | They can have you "suicided" | May 28 17:16 |
schestowitz | Allegedly like Dr David Kelly | May 28 17:16 |
DaemonFC | slip in the shower | May 28 17:16 |
DaemonFC | fall down a flight of stairs | May 28 17:17 |
DaemonFC | these things happen | May 28 17:17 |
DaemonFC | such a shame | May 28 17:17 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 17:17 |
schestowitz | Some might say the same about the CFO of Freddie Mac | May 28 17:17 |
kentma1 | look at how many south-africans died falling down stairs. it's nasty. | May 28 17:17 |
schestowitz | For real? | May 28 17:17 |
DaemonFC | that guy could have been publicly lynched and there would have been few objections | May 28 17:17 |
DaemonFC | are you serious? | May 28 17:17 |
schestowitz | Or during the fight from freedom? | May 28 17:17 |
DaemonFC | :p | May 28 17:17 |
schestowitz | *for | May 28 17:18 |
kentma1 | during the apartheid period. | May 28 17:18 |
schestowitz | OK | May 28 17:18 |
kentma1 | I was arrested there, long time a go, Cape Town. | May 28 17:18 |
DaemonFC | Nelson Mandela really inspires me, all those years in prison......then he was released | May 28 17:18 |
kentma1 | Scary moment. | May 28 17:18 |
schestowitz | Mandela said that without the BBC's coverage he probably would be killed in prison. | May 28 17:18 |
DaemonFC | and has managed not to re-offend | May 28 17:18 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 17:18 |
kentma1 | :-) | May 28 17:18 |
kentma1 | Robben Island is a nasty place. Actually, pretty much exactly like Alcatraz, I think. | May 28 17:19 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, hah snowy..shame the app its supporting isn't written in a free language lOL | May 28 17:19 |
schestowitz | Yeah | May 28 17:19 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: There's Wikipedia tools now written in .Netif you haven't noticed | May 28 17:19 |
DaemonFC | .Net if | May 28 17:19 |
schestowitz | Mono should be pushed down the stairs /sarcasm | May 28 17:20 |
oiaohm | Snowy is python. | May 28 17:20 |
oiaohm | Not .net | May 28 17:20 |
schestowitz | They can have it latch on to gnote | May 28 17:20 |
DaemonFC | n, they use .Net | May 28 17:20 |
schestowitz | Thankfully.. | May 28 17:20 |
DaemonFC | good old Wonkypedia | May 28 17:20 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 17:20 |
schestowitz | I like Wikis | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | Wonderful for few quality pages | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | I will resume the Wiki next month... | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | Wikis are good, if you mean the software | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | Plan it to post Comes exhibits in BN and USENET | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | Wikipedia is a joke | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | totally unreliable | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | The /good/ exhibits | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | usually wrong | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | mostly uncited | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | Same with some books | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | except for a few featured articles | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | and those things where letters are made of toner | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | overall, very low qualiy | May 28 17:22 |
DaemonFC | *quality | May 28 17:22 |
schestowitz | Good luck with Encarta | May 28 17:23 |
schestowitz | Go download it while it lasts | May 28 17:23 |
oiaohm | snowy is supporting a protocal gnote could support DaemonFC. | May 28 17:23 |
schestowitz | benJIman: opensuse is very slow | May 28 17:23 |
schestowitz | Their planet too | May 28 17:23 |
schestowitz | Nothing there | May 28 17:23 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_online_encyclopedias | May 28 17:24 |
schestowitz | Maybe -- just maybe -- Greg K-H and pal will just spin SUSE off Ubuntu | May 28 17:24 |
schestowitz | Kind of like Mint and Ubuntu | May 28 17:24 |
DaemonFC | oh no, without Encarta we only have 5 million other choices | May 28 17:24 |
DaemonFC | what will we do? | May 28 17:24 |
schestowitz | Pick Ubuntu, add MS patents, NDS and other drek, charge for it | May 28 17:24 |
DaemonFC | so pretty much Ubuntu then | May 28 17:25 |
schestowitz | Nope | May 28 17:25 |
DaemonFC | they don't have to do anything at all to it? | May 28 17:25 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu already ships tons of unlicensed software, mono, the moonlight plugin, and binary redists | May 28 17:25 |
DaemonFC | so it practically is just as bad as Suse | May 28 17:26 |
DaemonFC | only no legal standing | May 28 17:26 |
DaemonFC | actually, Suse has less questionable software | May 28 17:26 |
DaemonFC | as you need Packman for most of the unlicensed stuff | May 28 17:26 |
DaemonFC | if Ubuntu was based in a country with laws | May 28 17:27 |
DaemonFC | they'd be sued to their skivvies | May 28 17:27 |
DaemonFC | over a great number of things | May 28 17:27 |
oiaohm | Also Ubuntu maintainers need to grow up. | May 28 17:31 |
oiaohm | Upstreaming of patches is critical. | May 28 17:31 |
schestowitz | MinceR: ASAY vs LINUX: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10250945-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad | May 28 17:31 |
schestowitz | "Correction at 6:35 a.m. PDT: This article was initially written on the assumption that the study was new. It was actually published in 2005." | May 28 17:31 |
schestowitz | Translation at 6:35 a.m: I'm an idiot | May 28 17:32 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: hehe :-) | May 28 17:33 |
DaemonFC | my point is that Ubuntu ships everything you say you disagree with Suse over and then a ton more that's questionable | May 28 17:33 |
DaemonFC | the only difference is that there's no formality of a "patent deaL", yet... | May 28 17:33 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: there's not much comparable between Novell & Ubuntu, though. | May 28 17:33 |
DaemonFC | there will be is they ever want to be seen as a legitimate business | May 28 17:34 |
DaemonFC | sure there is | May 28 17:34 |
schestowitz | kentma1: he's looking to justify using a Mac | May 28 17:35 |
schestowitz | So he slams Linux every now and then, even running to MS-backed 'studies' from 4 years ago | May 28 17:36 |
schestowitz | Then the anti-Linux shills are re-fed and cite him | May 28 17:36 |
oiaohm | That artical on cnet has it right. But being 4 years old it misses the recent changes. | May 28 17:36 |
kentma1 | hehe :-) | May 28 17:36 |
kentma1 | caught out, there. | May 28 17:36 |
oiaohm | Active Directory is one of MS biggest locks. | May 28 17:36 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: MS got Vista since then | May 28 17:37 |
schestowitz | LOL | May 28 17:37 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: MS have so many - they've been very clever with them. | May 28 17:37 |
oiaohm | Next is there intergration between Office and server products. | May 28 17:37 |
oiaohm | Problem we have here Samba will get Active Directory. | May 28 17:37 |
kentma1 | oiaohm: The quote which always sticks in my mind is Bill Gates, when faced with a non-MS option, saying "But it won't be compatible". He didn't say with *what* exactly... | May 28 17:38 |
DaemonFC | yeah, but XP still has legs | May 28 17:38 |
kentma1 | He managed a whole fud-campaign based on the word "compatible". | May 28 17:38 |
DaemonFC | it's cause the number of people who want a Mac are tiny | May 28 17:38 |
DaemonFC | and the performance hit of bloating Vista to act like a Mac has put PC users off | May 28 17:39 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: actually, that's not true, Macs have a substantial following. | May 28 17:39 |
DaemonFC | Mac OS X is actually fairly slow and crappy | May 28 17:39 |
oiaohm | Then you have the social desktop coming to open source providing different style of intergration. | May 28 17:39 |
DaemonFC | they just put it on fast PCs | May 28 17:39 |
DaemonFC | so you won't know | May 28 17:39 |
oiaohm | Linux guys are giving up on the idea of chasing basically. | May 28 17:39 |
schestowitz | GNU/Linux Eclipses Windows – for Eclipse Users < http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2222&blogid=14 > | May 28 17:39 |
kentma1 | DaemonFC: the problem we have is that, since Microsoft, everyone thinks that market share < 80% isn't worth considering. | May 28 17:39 |
DaemonFC | if MS could do that for Vista, it would have fared better | May 28 17:39 |
schestowitz | Linux at 25% on desktop | May 28 17:39 |
schestowitz | Mac 6% | May 28 17:39 |
schestowitz | At Eclipse | May 28 17:39 |
schestowitz | Windows down Shaaaarply | May 28 17:40 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: Linux will come out on top, but because of mobility, and MS's failure to see it coming. | May 28 17:40 |
schestowitz | Except in DaemonFC 's house | May 28 17:40 |
kentma1 | Does DaemonFC use Windows? | May 28 17:40 |
schestowitz | kentma1: well, they give kickbacks now | May 28 17:40 |
schestowitz | They apparently pay ASUS now | May 28 17:40 |
DaemonFC | the problem is that Microsoft can't stop PC makers from putting it on PCs that can't handle Vista, OS X is equally bloated and slow, but it only ships on fast PCs | May 28 17:40 |
schestowitz | Kickbacks to knock Linux | May 28 17:40 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: they've always paid OEMs for that. | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | Claimed by someone who spoke to ASUS in Germanyt | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | ASUS also started advertising Windows | May 28 17:41 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: it's one reason why anti-trust needs to be pushed much harder indeed. | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | Like the "Vendor recommends" thing | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | It's bribed for | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | Not it's "better with Windows" | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | Marketing | May 28 17:41 |
kentma1 | That whole approach should probably be illegal. | May 28 17:41 |
schestowitz | It is | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | But who will enforce it? | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | They mock the EC now | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/ie-bundling-and-the-mad-lawyer-desease/ | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | "Whoever tries to slap in the face of the European hearing officer because some potential national observers prefer to go to an international conference, looks pretty incompetent. It was reported also Commissioner Kroes intended to honour the hearing of DG competition with her attendance." | May 28 17:42 |
kentma1 | The EC should come down ever harder on MS. Their approach is sickening. | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | "It seems also inspiring how failure is spinned in a way to smear the Commission and dig the hole deeper." | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is a political thug | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | They also send Mundie to Europe | May 28 17:42 |
schestowitz | And to Bilderberg this year | May 28 17:42 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: always has been. I hope Neelie keeps the fight up. | May 28 17:43 |
schestowitz | Where he'll meet Neelie Kroes face-to-face | May 28 17:43 |
oiaohm | koffice 2.0 iis out. | May 28 17:43 |
kentma1 | I hope Dutch security is looking after her. | May 28 17:43 |
oiaohm | http://www.koffice.org/wordpress/ And boy did they change there web site. | May 28 17:44 |
kentma1 | I wouldn't want her to be put off by death threats and the like. | May 28 17:44 |
schestowitz | Are vendors paid by Microsoft to put the Windows logos on keyboards? Penalised if not? | May 28 17:44 |
kentma1 | schestowitz: they're probably caught between a rock and a hard place on that one. | May 28 17:45 |
schestowitz | koffice 2.0 IIS? | May 28 17:45 |
schestowitz | Does that run Linux? | May 28 17:45 |
kentma1 | If they don't do it, they'll risk losing sales, if they do it, MS lawyers will be onto them demanding payment. | May 28 17:45 |
MinceR | schestowitz: asay's article is unsurprisingly devoid of content | May 28 17:45 |
schestowitz | kentma1: just ugly smear campaigns | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | Nasty imagery mostly | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | And Microsoft hired shills like ACT | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | Who attack her | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | Also for Intel | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | They nationalise the isuse | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | Abuse of Microsoft penalise is "anti-American" | May 28 17:46 |
MinceR | schestowitz: i'm surprised he didn't take the chance to somehow praise his favorite crApple | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | Same with Intel | May 28 17:46 |
kentma1 | It's awful to see so much US corruption being imported into the EU. | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | "Anti-American" | May 28 17:46 |
schestowitz | To inciate US public against her and her commission/agency | May 28 17:47 |
schestowitz | If by "American" they mean criminal, then OK | May 28 17:47 |
schestowitz | Yes, the EU is anti-Crime | May 28 17:47 |
kentma1 | Yanks do seem to fall for that kind of simplistic manipulation by the media in huge numbers. | May 28 17:47 |
MinceR | the EU is not anti-crime enough by far | May 28 17:47 |
kentma1 | If US media were regulated, then most of this would stop. | May 28 17:47 |
schestowitz | For the US to symbolise itself with thugs like Ballmer and Otellini/Barrat is bad enough | May 28 17:47 |
schestowitz | kentma1: you mean conspirators | May 28 17:48 |
schestowitz | Accomplices a la Richard Steel? | May 28 17:48 |
schestowitz | mikankun: it's not | May 28 17:48 |
schestowitz | MinceR: I am filing a formal complain against the commision | May 28 17:49 |
kentma1 | Talking of such things, I've just received a leaflet through the door for an "English national party". Like all these things, it starts out reasonably enough... English people should have representation, like the Irish, Scots and Welsh... | May 28 17:49 |
schestowitz | They broke the law | May 28 17:49 |
schestowitz | Transparency | May 28 17:49 |
kentma1 | but then very soon descends into "we have too much immigration". | May 28 17:49 |
schestowitz | After two months I report them by snail mail for misconduct | May 28 17:49 |
schestowitz | Based on the formal procedure | May 28 17:49 |
schestowitz | Is that related to BNP? | May 28 17:50 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: koffice is kde office suit. Yes it runs on Linux and everywhere else kde does. It hopefully will appear on windows soon. | May 28 17:50 |
schestowitz | They got DDoSed | May 28 17:50 |
MinceR | schestowitz: what did they do? | May 28 17:50 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: I was joking | May 28 17:50 |
schestowitz | Type "iis" | May 28 17:50 |
schestowitz | *typo | May 28 17:50 |
schestowitz | <oiaohm> koffice 2.0 iis out. | May 28 17:51 |
oiaohm | I missed it. | May 28 17:54 |
schestowitz | AMD overclocked at 6.89GHz http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137501/amd-goes-overclocking | May 28 17:54 |
schestowitz | OEMs stick Core i7 in laptops http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137503/oems-stick-core-i7-laptops | May 28 17:54 |
schestowitz | Sutor: "Newer versions of Microsoft Office offer PDF support and rather odd partial ODF support" http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=3638 | May 28 17:55 |
oiaohm | Come on. | May 28 17:57 |
schestowitz | HP job cuts hit Scotland < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/hp_cuts_scottish_jobs/ > | May 28 17:57 |
oiaohm | Print those darn PDFs can compare them to the ones that come out Openoffice some reportter. | May 28 17:57 |
schestowitz | Chance for smaller shops, hopefully | May 28 17:57 |
oiaohm | MS really has only partly supported PDF too. | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | Yeah... | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | That's not a reporter | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | It's IBM's VP of Linux and FOSS | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | Leave a comment there | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | Correct him. | May 28 17:58 |
kentma1 | I don't know - it looks like it might be, but it's not clear. The agenda seems similar. | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | I'll write about it tomorrow as well | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | kentma1: whose? | May 28 17:58 |
schestowitz | HP? IBM? MS? | May 28 17:59 |
kentma1 | English National Party. | May 28 17:59 |
kentma1 | to the BNP. | May 28 17:59 |
schestowitz | Like ODF Foundation vs ODF Alliance | May 28 17:59 |
schestowitz | Will the real "national party" pls stand up? | May 28 17:59 |
kentma1 | :-) | May 28 18:00 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/fine_gael_credentials/ | May 28 18:00 |
schestowitz | From the comments: "Could she please be a replacement for that twat gordon idiot" http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/fine_gael_credentials/comments/ | May 28 18:01 |
*tacone (i=975207ca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-231126533c1adcc8) has joined #boycottnovell | May 28 18:05 | |
oiaohm | schestowitz AMD and Intel running over clocking events basically get 10 years of stress into a chip in a few hours is great r&d | May 28 18:07 |
DaemonFC | they both sell some chips underclocked just to fill a lower end market | May 28 18:07 |
oiaohm | Yep but its what chips are under clocked. | May 28 18:08 |
DaemonFC | there's a pretty good chance that if you have a Core 2 Duo you can get a good deal more out of it if your motherboard isn't some crippled OEM no name | May 28 18:08 |
oiaohm | And what chips are defective so are there. | May 28 18:08 |
oiaohm | Also lower temp running chips also last longer. | May 28 18:09 |
DaemonFC | bullshit, they throw some defective cores out there on purpose to try and sour the deal | May 28 18:09 |
DaemonFC | so it never becomes mainstream and you have to buy a new CPU | May 28 18:09 |
DaemonFC | when yours is capable of running much faster | May 28 18:09 |
oiaohm | There is a line between speed/temp/lifespan. | May 28 18:10 |
DaemonFC | yes and no | May 28 18:10 |
oiaohm | Underclocked chips normally run cooler. | May 28 18:10 |
oiaohm | And normally have a longer livespan. | May 28 18:10 |
DaemonFC | in reality the CPU will wear out long after the computer is majorly obsolete | May 28 18:11 |
DaemonFC | so it's a non issue | May 28 18:11 |
oiaohm | I run some networks on pure obsolete hardware. | May 28 18:11 |
DaemonFC | On May 7, 2008 Senator Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) was among those announcing introduction of the Free Speech Protection Act which has been referred to the Senate Judiciary Committee for consideration. He explained: “The United Kingdom has become a popular venue for defamation plaintiffs from around the world, because under English law it is not necessary for a libel plaintiff to prove falsity... | May 28 18:12 |
DaemonFC | ...or actual malice as is required in the United States.” | May 28 18:12 |
oiaohm | Got one network that still has pent 1 machines as thin clients. | May 28 18:12 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 28 18:12 |
oiaohm | Only recently upgraded from 486's. | May 28 18:12 |
oiaohm | They will never see AMD XP chips. | May 28 18:13 |
DaemonFC | passing laws to make sure our legal system doesn't become as fucked up as the UK's wrt defamation and libel cases | May 28 18:13 |
DaemonFC | 486's are too slow to do anything with | May 28 18:13 |
schestowitz | A collague of mine ranted about Blackboard yesterday. | May 28 18:13 |
schestowitz | It's utter rubbish. | May 28 18:13 |
DaemonFC | the CPU in my router is many times faster than that :P | May 28 18:13 |
oiaohm | 486 have been fast enough for point of sale for ok since they were released. | May 28 18:14 |
DaemonFC | The Los Angeles Times April 9 editorialized: “Some public figures are using England's plaintiff-friendly laws to go after books they don't like. New York and Illinois have come to the defense of U.S. writers. Congress and California should too.” | May 28 18:14 |
schestowitz | Despite the price tag, Microsoft partners. It truly shows how 'good' binaries are when sold for a high cost... | May 28 18:14 |
DaemonFC | so the UK are the book burners | May 28 18:14 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 18:14 |
schestowitz | Passing laws don't save crap | May 28 18:14 |
oiaohm | Note I said some networks DaemonFC | May 28 18:14 |
schestowitz | Let me find a new article about it.. | May 28 18:14 |
schestowitz | Seen earlier.. | May 28 18:14 |
oiaohm | There are tasks were you don't need much cpu power at all. | May 28 18:15 |
schestowitz | More Privacy Laws Don't Mean More Privacy < http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090525/1458324997.shtml > | May 28 18:15 |
DaemonFC | there you go, sue people for libel, you don't have to prove you were harmed | May 28 18:15 |
DaemonFC | to which I reply with my middle finger | May 28 18:15 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 18:15 |
schestowitz | http://www.techdirt.com/ is a very good site | May 28 18:16 |
oiaohm | Why does the person who is libibal have to prove false. | May 28 18:16 |
schestowitz | I wonder if any new sites actually manage to make any income at all... | May 28 18:16 |
oiaohm | Opps came out wrong. | May 28 18:16 |
oiaohm | English law works perfectly ok. | May 28 18:17 |
DaemonFC | it should be on the plantiff to prove actual harm | May 28 18:17 |
DaemonFC | the English law is ridiculous | May 28 18:17 |
oiaohm | If you made claims you should have the documents to back it up. | May 28 18:17 |
oiaohm | It works perfectly. | May 28 18:17 |
schestowitz | Or for the defendant to defend claims | May 28 18:17 |
DaemonFC | so the UK would let me sue you and never prove actual harm | May 28 18:17 |
DaemonFC | and maybe I'm just bullshitting | May 28 18:17 |
schestowitz | So if I say something about <X> I need to show what I base this on | May 28 18:17 |
DaemonFC | but I still get the ruling | May 28 18:17 |
DaemonFC | and that's OK? | May 28 18:17 |
schestowitz | If the source of erroneous, then it's accidental libel | May 28 18:17 |
oiaohm | Now if you don't have a case you have to pay costs DaemonFC | May 28 18:18 |
DaemonFC | the UK is terrorizing journalists | May 28 18:18 |
oiaohm | UK journalists are weak. | May 28 18:18 |
oiaohm | Australian ones have ended up taking costs out of lot of the ones that pushed libel against them. | May 28 18:18 |
DaemonFC | probably because the consequences of telling the truth in the British media are so damning | May 28 18:18 |
oiaohm | The English law and the Australian law is the same. | May 28 18:19 |
oiaohm | Difference is how the media companies handle it. | May 28 18:19 |
DaemonFC | and the laws going up here say that the United States does not recognize those asinine laws in the UK | May 28 18:20 |
DaemonFC | nor are US journalists bound by a court ruling in the UK | May 28 18:20 |
DaemonFC | in other words, a polite "Go fuck yourself" is in order | May 28 18:20 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 18:20 |
oiaohm | Now if the plaintiff has to prove that what is said is a lie media can make up a lot of false claims. | May 28 18:21 |
DaemonFC | the UK is encouraging SLAPP suits | May 28 18:21 |
DaemonFC | apparently Australia too? | May 28 18:21 |
oiaohm | Without evidence in areas of a persons live they would class as too personal. | May 28 18:21 |
oiaohm | We don't have that problem DaemonFC | May 28 18:22 |
DaemonFC | it's happening | May 28 18:22 |
oiaohm | Our media companies stand there ground. | May 28 18:22 |
DaemonFC | the UK is SLAPP-friendly | May 28 18:22 |
oiaohm | Unless you know you have a valid case its not woth the judge awarding costs against you for wasting everyones time. | May 28 18:22 |
DaemonFC | the town I live in was recently sued for violating the Bill of Rights :) | May 28 18:23 |
DaemonFC | and is under a restraining order from further violations until this can work through the courts | May 28 18:24 |
oiaohm | The law might be friendly to SLAPP but the judges are not. If the media presents supporting evidence they based on what they believed as fact they also get off even if it turned out to be incorrect. | May 28 18:24 |
DaemonFC | apparently one of the elementary schools was running a bible study thing with one of the churches | May 28 18:25 |
DaemonFC | and they've been ordered to stop doing it | May 28 18:25 |
DaemonFC | lol | May 28 18:25 |
oiaohm | We don't have a Bill of Rights here. | May 28 18:25 |
oiaohm | People have also tried doing SLAPP here. | May 28 18:26 |
DaemonFC | some local and state governments would prefer we didn't either | May 28 18:26 |
oiaohm | Problem is lawyers here are also like sharks. | May 28 18:26 |
DaemonFC | still doesn't stopp most of their bullshit | May 28 18:26 |
DaemonFC | but they're mad that all of their bullshit won't fly | May 28 18:26 |
oiaohm | The see you have a valid case they will take it up pro bono to get the money. | May 28 18:26 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 18:26 |
DaemonFC | *stop | May 28 18:26 |
DaemonFC | that's kind of how it works here | May 28 18:27 |
oiaohm | Basically doing a SLAPP action here is not worth the legal pounding you will get. | May 28 18:27 |
DaemonFC | they work on contingency | May 28 18:27 |
DaemonFC | that is if you lose, they don't charge you anything | May 28 18:27 |
oiaohm | Worst attempt of a SLAPP end up with 4000 lawyers on it. | May 28 18:28 |
oiaohm | Protecting idvidiual people. | May 28 18:28 |
oiaohm | Yep not worth attempting. | May 28 18:28 |
DaemonFC | the European Court of Human Rights seems like the only check on the abuses of the UK | May 28 18:28 |
oiaohm | ending up having to pay 4000 lawyers is not a good out come. | May 28 18:28 |
neighborlee | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1125311&page=18 < " The membership has spoken, this is not a democracy, this thread is closed. Please quit trying to push forward your own agenda. " < cariboo cowboy | May 28 18:29 |
neighborlee | gee, I thought open source WAS a democracy ;)) | May 28 18:29 |
DaemonFC | fuck Ubuntu | May 28 18:29 |
neighborlee | OOPS | May 28 18:29 |
DaemonFC | you see what I am saying? | May 28 18:29 |
schestowitz | Something weird at IDG... LinuxWorld points to TechWorld | May 28 18:29 |
schestowitz | The RSS feed | May 28 18:29 |
MinceR | projects by themselves don't have to be democracies. | May 28 18:29 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: who does cariboo907 talk to? | May 28 18:30 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, trouble is they are somewhat of a standard..that is embracing mono at the expense of users that aren't aware thus using apps for lockin...thats the problem ;) | May 28 18:30 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is a bunch of Usurpers | May 28 18:30 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, no idea | May 28 18:30 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 18:30 |
MinceR | IDG goes back to the Denial phase? | May 28 18:30 |
schestowitz | Not sure | May 28 18:30 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/ | May 28 18:31 |
schestowitz | Site is there | May 28 18:31 |
schestowitz | The RSS feed suddenly linked to 15 items from another s[lut]ite of theirs | May 28 18:31 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/ os PageRank 4 | May 28 18:31 |
schestowitz | They sucked PR out of Linus | May 28 18:31 |
schestowitz | To make their 'event' | May 28 18:31 |
schestowitz | They Linus snubbed for YEARS | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | They ends it, like many others (not a Linux issue) | May 28 18:32 |
DaemonFC | Fedora has more of a community distro than Ubuntu | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | I think IDG migth not survive | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | Might be in huge DEBT like the NYT | May 28 18:32 |
DaemonFC | it's just that Ubuntu is better about pretending to be open | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | They fire lots of writers | May 28 18:32 |
DaemonFC | where they really are no such thing | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | in IDG too | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | Todd from IDG is now in linux.com writing voluntarily | May 28 18:32 |
schestowitz | He was a senior writer for IDG. not seen him there in a while, so.... | May 28 18:33 |
DaemonFC | Red Hat controls most of what goes on in Fedora, Canonical controls all of what goes on with Ubuntu | May 28 18:33 |
DaemonFC | so there you go | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | But look.... | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | http://www.isgtw.org/?pid=1001831 | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | There are still Linux events... | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | With girls | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | Look at her | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | Do you reckon they took this shot at a Linus conf? | May 28 18:33 |
schestowitz | *Linus | May 28 18:34 |
schestowitz | *Linux | May 28 18:34 |
schestowitz | [can't type | May 28 18:34 |
DaemonFC | the future of Linux is not a community because communities tend to be unorganized and unpredictable, but having a corporation behind it is almost as bad | May 28 18:34 |
DaemonFC | so what can you do? | May 28 18:34 |
schestowitz | Microsoft shill Burton Group at it again... http://www.techworld.com.au/article/304797/vmware_hypervisor_still_king_enterprise-class_workloads_burton_group_says?fp=2&fpid=1&rid=1 | May 28 18:35 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: grab a stick, join the huddle /sarcasm | May 28 18:36 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately communities don't have the financial backing and organization, and companies don't have any ethics and only ster the project to where they need it | May 28 18:36 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: seen http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9186312029.html?kc=rss ? | May 28 18:36 |
DaemonFC | and the distribution has to be more than the sum of its parts | May 28 18:36 |
DaemonFC | so you can argue that Ubuntu is based on open pieces all you want | May 28 18:37 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, it defiitely does yes..TOO bad it also backs mono | May 28 18:38 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, although at least not moonlight. | May 28 18:38 |
DaemonFC | sudo apt-get install moonlight-plugin | May 28 18:39 |
DaemonFC | I believe is the name of the package | May 28 18:39 |
DaemonFC | it's in Synaptic though if that doesn't work | May 28 18:39 |
DaemonFC | the covenant not to sue from MS does not cover Ubuntu users that get it from Ubuntu | May 28 18:40 |
DaemonFC | it only covers users who get it from Novell | May 28 18:40 |
DaemonFC | so you could be exposing yourself to legal problems with Moonlight from Ubuntu | May 28 18:41 |
DaemonFC | but that's not the first time they'd done something illegal or redistributed unlicensed stuff | May 28 18:41 |
oiaohm | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3778872160.html << I was more intrest in this. And how long before I could run a ADS from it. | May 28 18:41 |
DaemonFC | *they've | May 28 18:41 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, newwer | May 28 18:41 |
schestowitz | I got it earlier | May 28 18:41 |
oiaohm | But its nice that shuttles appear to be going back to OS less. | May 28 18:42 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: go on, tell us that we should be using suse or vista. | May 28 18:42 |
schestowitz | sista | May 28 18:42 |
schestowitz | ? | May 28 18:42 |
DaemonFC | my point was that Ubuntu is not only promoting Moonlight, they don't even have a license to | May 28 18:43 |
oiaohm | In theory if Ubuntu did there packages right there would not be a legal problem. Ie if the deb download the moonlight binary from novel. | May 28 18:43 |
DaemonFC | and their version still makes you download files from Microsoft | May 28 18:43 |
*schestowitz Listens to Sister Act 2 - Joyful Joyful | May 28 18:43 | |
DaemonFC | it doesn't | May 28 18:43 |
oiaohm | The legal problem is they do it wrong. | May 28 18:44 |
oiaohm | Also would block them having any mono programs on there live cd. | May 28 18:44 |
oiaohm | Its the insanity of it. There are legal ways and they don't follow it. | May 28 18:46 |
schestowitz | MSFTer: "TCKs typically contain vendors' intellectual property (IP) under licenses that open-source projects and vendors cannot swallow, so they cannot be "officially" certified as compatible - hurting their adoption." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/27/jcp_changes/ | May 28 18:49 |
*DaemonFC is never eating Habenero Tabasco sauce again | May 28 18:51 | |
DaemonFC | I thought it was painful yesterday | May 28 18:51 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: sorry, i didn't realize that inclusion in a repo was the same thing as promoting. | May 28 18:52 |
DaemonFC | course I say that now, but I'll eat it again | May 28 18:52 |
MinceR | ubuntu is promoting a lot of things then. | May 28 18:52 |
DaemonFC | more or less | May 28 18:52 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu does not really care for there uses, | May 28 18:52 |
DaemonFC | if you really don't believe in something, you don't hawk it | May 28 18:52 |
oiaohm | More uses them as test subjects. | May 28 18:52 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: define "hawk" | May 28 18:52 |
DaemonFC | why are you defending Uuntu for peddling bullshit? | May 28 18:52 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: because you're full of shit, as usual | May 28 18:52 |
DaemonFC | you know they'll just sign a deal with Microsoft eventually | May 28 18:52 |
DaemonFC | when they get big | May 28 18:52 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: and because you keep parroting gregkh's FUD against it | May 28 18:53 |
DaemonFC | Fedora refuses to peddle Moonlight | May 28 18:53 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: you keep polluting this channel with trolling and lies and i'm getting tired of all that noise. | May 28 18:53 |
oiaohm | MinceR: Ubuntu is not without its flaws. | May 28 18:53 |
DaemonFC | Fedora refuses to peddle Moonlight | May 28 18:53 |
MinceR | oiaohm: i'm aware of that. | May 28 18:53 |
DaemonFC | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#Moonlight | May 28 18:53 |
oiaohm | Lot of Ubuntu maintainers need a legal leason. | May 28 18:53 |
DaemonFC | There are serious concerns about Moonlight, due to Microsoft and Novell's public statements around its inclusion in their "covenant". In addition to that Groklaw has posted a FAQ from Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) on the issues with this patent "covenant". Accordingly, this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora. | May 28 18:54 |
DaemonFC | like I said, Ubuntu doesn't care if they do illegal or unethical things | May 28 18:54 |
MinceR | then i presume ubuntu is _promoting_ ati and nvidia GPUs because they include drivers for those GPUs in the repos. | May 28 18:54 |
DaemonFC | else it wouldn't be there | May 28 18:54 |
DaemonFC | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#NVIDIA_Accelerated_Graphics_Drivers | May 28 18:54 |
DaemonFC | The NVIDIA graphics drivers are proprietary, and many kernel developers consider this driver to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Fedora does not include proprietary software. | May 28 18:54 |
DaemonFC | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#ATI_Accelerated_Graphics_Drivers | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | The ATI graphics drivers are proprietary and many kernel developers consider this driver to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Fedora does not include proprietary software. | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#NDISwrapper_network_driver | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | NDISwrapper works by bridging Windows drivers into kernel space; many kernel developers consider this to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Furthermore, NDISwrapper does not work with standard kernel features, such as 4K stacks, and exposes the user to binary-only drivers in kernel space that the user cannot modify or fix. Furthermore, NDISwrapper does not work at all without the Windows... | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | ...drivers, which 1) are not redistributable, and therefore cannot be shipped in Fedora, and 2) are not open source, and therefore will not be shipped in Fedora. | May 28 18:55 |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-105-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | May 28 18:55 | |
_Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 28 18:55 |
oiaohm | NVIDIA and ATI both have legal licences to ship. | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | so it's not just mOONLIGHT, IT'S LOTS OF BAD SHIT THAT THEY WON'T PROMOTE | May 28 18:55 |
_Hicham_ | how are u doing oiaohm? | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | BUT uBUNTU HAPPILY WILL SELL YOU OUT TO MAKE IT EASIER TO USE | May 28 18:55 |
oiaohm | _Hicham_: cannot sleep for once. | May 28 18:55 |
DaemonFC | crap | May 28 18:56 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu will happily do anything it takes to get users | May 28 18:56 |
_Hicham_ | I am promoting DaemonFC | May 28 18:56 |
DaemonFC | even if it's unethical or illegal | May 28 18:56 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is a good ambassador | May 28 18:56 |
DaemonFC | There's no reason why you can't put that stuff into Fedora yourself | May 28 18:56 |
DaemonFC | but they will not provide it | May 28 18:56 |
DaemonFC | I think that's a good stance as it educates the user | May 28 18:57 |
_Hicham_ | moonlight isn't included even in rpmfusion | May 28 18:57 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu just says "Click here" | May 28 18:57 |
oiaohm | Debian has a restricted repo for stuff that cannot normally be included. | May 28 18:57 |
DaemonFC | and never explains why that's bad | May 28 18:57 |
_Hicham_ | which contains a lot of non-free stuff | May 28 18:57 |
DaemonFC | cause they don't give a shit | May 28 18:57 |
MinceR | the whole point is that they _don't_ say "click here" | May 28 18:57 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has a thing pop up | May 28 18:58 |
_Hicham_ | well, they do | May 28 18:58 |
DaemonFC | and tell you that you need to install nonfree software | May 28 18:58 |
DaemonFC | and unlicensed codecs | May 28 18:58 |
DaemonFC | instead of saying "You may need to go find these someplace else....OR...here are alternate options | May 28 18:58 |
DaemonFC | instead of educating, they have the "Who gives a fuck?" button | May 28 18:59 |
MinceR | so, where does Synaptic say "click here"? | May 28 18:59 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu is not alone with this problem. | May 28 18:59 |
neighborlee | true,ogg /theora is sorely lacking in adoption | May 28 18:59 |
MinceR | protip: moonlight is not listed in add/remove | May 28 18:59 |
DaemonFC | I'm not saying don't use Nvidia drivers, but they need to draw a line and inform the user that there is a problem | May 28 18:59 |
oiaohm | Lot of distributions need to growup in there handling. | May 28 18:59 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: wait... | May 28 18:59 |
schestowitz | Google is coming up with support | May 28 18:59 |
schestowitz | In YouTuvbe | May 28 18:59 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, I think they draw the Line WAY too much imho | May 28 19:00 |
schestowitz | Maybe Chrome later | May 28 19:00 |
schestowitz | Firefox 3.5 | May 28 19:00 |
schestowitz | That's Ogg on at least 1 in 3 PCs | May 28 19:00 |
schestowitz | Then Opera | May 28 19:00 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: last time i checked that's _exactly_ what they did. | May 28 19:00 |
DaemonFC | neighborlee: There's as many reasons to use the drivers and codecs as not to | May 28 19:00 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, informing theuser,nvidia driver might not work and cause their system instability ?..thats over the top fud I think | May 28 19:00 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR : http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=moonlight&searchon=names&suite=jaunty§ion=all | May 28 19:00 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu doesn't even make you think about it | May 28 19:00 |
DaemonFC | they just tell you that they need to install something | May 28 19:00 |
MinceR | (they warned the user that they're using proprietary drivers) | May 28 19:00 |
neighborlee | codecs one thing those ARE avoidable..3d acceleration is not a choice fo rmany...its mandatory :)) | May 28 19:00 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: what is that an answer to? | May 28 19:00 |
neighborlee | at least nvidia isn't sueing anyone :)( | May 28 19:00 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, yes | May 28 19:01 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR : Ubuntu promotes moonlight | May 28 19:01 |
DaemonFC | first off, there are bugs in Nvidia's driver | May 28 19:01 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: no "click here" and it isn't listed in add/remove | May 28 19:01 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, well yes ogg is out there anyway | May 28 19:01 |
DaemonFC | lots of them | May 28 19:01 |
neighborlee | ive never encountered any..that I know of. | May 28 19:01 |
DaemonFC | and secondly, some of those have security implications | May 28 19:01 |
DaemonFC | you can see just the ones they have fixed | May 28 19:01 |
MinceR | _Hicham_: well then, so does google, yahoo, altavista, and all the other web search engines | May 28 19:01 |
_Hicham_ | Mince : it is in universe | May 28 19:01 |
DaemonFC | and should be scared | May 28 19:01 |
neighborlee | ah yes I know about that.never hit me that I know of. | May 28 19:01 |
MinceR | oh, and wikipedia promotes everything it has an article about, too | May 28 19:01 |
_Hicham_ | this Chromium browser is always astonishing | May 28 19:02 |
neighborlee | well what choice is there for 3d acceleratoin if you have nvidia ?? ;)),,,certainly not nouveau ;) | May 28 19:02 |
_Hicham_ | it is improving quickly | May 28 19:02 |
DaemonFC | neighborlee: You have the choice not to buy Nvidia next time | May 28 19:02 |
_Hicham_ | I download the latest snapshots everyday | May 28 19:02 |
neighborlee | as if ati is any better ;))..its them and nvidia | May 28 19:02 |
DaemonFC | it's like cigarettes | May 28 19:02 |
DaemonFC | I don't think cigarettes should be illegal, but I do think the warning box should stay | May 28 19:03 |
MinceR | cigarettes are non-addictive now? | May 28 19:03 |
neighborlee | of course..warnings are fine..I just think ubuntu goes over the top on it is all | May 28 19:03 |
DaemonFC | the warning boxes educate then give you the decision | May 28 19:03 |
DaemonFC | there's nothing wrong with that | May 28 19:03 |
neighborlee | it scares ordinary users away possibly..thinking the sky is going to fall..but they are more than happy to embed patended technology in the OS! | May 28 19:04 |
neighborlee | yeah.great logic..;)) | May 28 19:04 |
DaemonFC | but if you just put something on the cigarettes that misleads the person into believing they are good | May 28 19:04 |
DaemonFC | or desireable | May 28 19:04 |
DaemonFC | that's a bad thing | May 28 19:04 |
neighborlee | must be all that isle of man air or something ;) | May 28 19:04 |
_Hicham_ | Isle of Shuttleworth | May 28 19:04 |
DaemonFC | that is what Ubuntu does | May 28 19:04 |
neighborlee | LOL | May 28 19:04 |
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | May 28 19:04 | |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is cigarettes and nude models smoking them | May 28 19:04 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 19:05 |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu is fucking upstream projects | May 28 19:05 |
DaemonFC | Fedora is cigarettes with black box warning and laws to regulate | May 28 19:05 |
_Hicham_ | they make upstream projects life harder | May 28 19:05 |
neighborlee | I do such wish fedora was more stable | May 28 19:05 |
_Hicham_ | Fedora is more stable than Ubuntu | May 28 19:05 |
DaemonFC | it may not be as convenient as pretending you're doing something with no consequences | May 28 19:05 |
_Hicham_ | it is more tested than Ubuntu | May 28 19:06 |
DaemonFC | but they don't bullshit you | May 28 19:06 |
DaemonFC | and I like that | May 28 19:06 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, not when they include pulse it isn't | May 28 19:06 |
neighborlee | pulse wasn't ready then and im not sure it is now ;) | May 28 19:06 |
_Hicham_ | pulse is stable now | May 28 19:06 |
_Hicham_ | in Fedora 11 | May 28 19:06 |
neighborlee | but thats oss development sometimes for you | May 28 19:06 |
_Hicham_ | thanks to the "pushing" | May 28 19:06 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, only if they weren't in bed with Microsoft..I MIGHT be using it fullltime right now | May 28 19:06 |
_Hicham_ | RedHat isn't in bed with Microsoft | May 28 19:06 |
neighborlee | bs | May 28 19:07 |
neighborlee | then mono should be gone | May 28 19:07 |
neighborlee | from default install | May 28 19:07 |
DaemonFC | OSS 4 is GPL'd now isn't it? | May 28 19:07 |
_Hicham_ | RedHat is providing interop | May 28 19:07 |
DaemonFC | every other unix uses OSS | May 28 19:07 |
DaemonFC | Linux is theonly one that doesn't | May 28 19:07 |
neighborlee | I really admire fedora | May 28 19:07 |
_Hicham_ | u must convice them to not package it | May 28 19:07 |
neighborlee | but this mono stuff.what WERE they thinking | May 28 19:07 |
_Hicham_ | it is up to u | May 28 19:07 |
_Hicham_ | personally, I didn't find anything against mono | May 28 19:08 |
neighborlee | ive tried..many..times.. | May 28 19:08 |
DaemonFC | Fedora has a legal team that advises them on what they can do | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | it is completely GPL'ed | May 28 19:08 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, novel/MIcrsoft patent agreement | May 28 19:08 |
neighborlee | tomtom | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | yes | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | I know | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | but this is not concrete | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | this are all speculations | May 28 19:08 |
neighborlee | its very concrete consdiering we dont HAVE a ecma to use ;)) | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | u should come up with something concrete | May 28 19:08 |
neighborlee | iwire < | May 28 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | how? | May 28 19:09 |
neighborlee | thats pretty darn concrete ;) | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | the code is 100% GPL | May 28 19:09 |
neighborlee | show me the ecma | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | what can u say? | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | I am showing u mono code | May 28 19:09 |
neighborlee | k ;) | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | there is no copyright infrigement | May 28 19:09 |
neighborlee | great, thank you for that. ;)) | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | no patents risk | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | unlike moolight | May 28 19:09 |
_Hicham_ | moonlight is different | May 28 19:10 |
neighborlee | wrong | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | and it have been banned from fedora | May 28 19:10 |
neighborlee | they are both a infringement | May 28 19:10 |
neighborlee | you know about groklaw ? | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | because IT IS REALLY RISKY | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | yes | May 28 19:10 |
neighborlee | I can point you to a artgicle..if you want | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | I know about Groklaw | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | I know those articles | May 28 19:10 |
neighborlee | and ? | May 28 19:10 |
DaemonFC | I think Microsoft's approach to various open source projects have been....interesting to say the least | May 28 19:10 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, indeed | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | but we should be pragmatic | May 28 19:10 |
DaemonFC | they've essentially co-opted Firefox as a value added Windows program | May 28 19:10 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 28 19:10 |
_Hicham_ | they provide WTL in Sourceforge | May 28 19:11 |
neighborlee | remember microsoft..the big bad monopolists ?..who in their right mind would use their stuff..oh wait I know I know.. supporters OF microsoft | May 28 19:11 |
neighborlee | sad , but true. | May 28 19:11 |
neighborlee | go gnotes | May 28 19:11 |
DaemonFC | Mozilla went to Microsoft's "Open SOurce Lab" to make FF work better on Vista, and then the Internet Explorer team sends them cakes | May 28 19:11 |
DaemonFC | every major Firefox release | May 28 19:12 |
DaemonFC | so I think they're more friendly than it looks | May 28 19:12 |
neighborlee | interesteing | May 28 19:12 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, that I did not know. | May 28 19:12 |
_Hicham_ | they want all the magic of open source to happen on Windows | May 28 19:12 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, enlightening | May 28 19:12 |
DaemonFC | Mozilla has also licensed stuff to Internet Explorer | May 28 19:12 |
DaemonFC | such as the RSS feed icon | May 28 19:12 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft wanted Firefox to support Protected Mode, but so far Mozilla hasn't done it | May 28 19:13 |
DaemonFC | they cite various theoretical scenarios where it cold be hacked through | May 28 19:14 |
DaemonFC | amounting to why have a lock on the door when someone with a fire axe could hack the door down? | May 28 19:14 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 19:14 |
schestowitz | <neighborlee> _Hicham_, only if they weren't in bed with Microsoft..I MIGHT be using it fullltime right now | May 28 19:15 |
schestowitz | What? | May 28 19:15 |
schestowitz | They sue MS/Switzerland ATM | May 28 19:15 |
DaemonFC | The user can mark Firefox as a low integrity process, but it bitches at you from then on whenever you start it :P | May 28 19:15 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, I was talking about fedora..and mono.. | May 28 19:15 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: not correct about Mono and Monolight [sic] | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | They are comonalities | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | Groklaw opposes both | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | But only Moonlight had an analysis of a covenant | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | Mono has no such public covenant | May 28 19:16 |
neighborlee | right | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | And I mailed Moglen and Kunn about it | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | Although they are OK with me they won't do an analysis | May 28 19:16 |
schestowitz | Nothing to do that with | May 28 19:17 |
schestowitz | But MS spoke about .NET | May 28 19:17 |
schestowitz | In Comes exhibits | May 28 19:17 |
schestowitz | And around the Novell deal | May 28 19:17 |
schestowitz | BN has like 100+ articles about Mono | May 28 19:17 |
schestowitz | Most of them with external sources, some exhibits from MS itself | May 28 19:17 |
schestowitz | I need to organise this (one day | May 28 19:17 |
neighborlee | indeed | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: wrong about Mozilla | May 28 19:18 |
neighborlee | brave attempt so far though..thats alot of work :) | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | They don't like MS that much | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | With Silverblight | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | And the EU case | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | Mozilla is part of the legal action AGAINST MS | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | Will you wake up? | May 28 19:18 |
schestowitz | Watch the Lizard/Wrangler blog | May 28 19:18 |
DaemonFC | http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2008/06/sweet-plugin-microsoft-cake-20-for-firefox-3/ | May 28 19:19 |
_Hicham_ | Mono isn't risky for the moment | May 28 19:19 |
schestowitz | Bull | May 28 19:19 |
schestowitz | That's PR | May 28 19:19 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: you know how PR works? | May 28 19:19 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, you may not know about fedora's refusal to use moonlight..due to its risk | May 28 19:19 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, I can get you the url if you wish | May 28 19:19 |
_Hicham_ | about the refusal of moonlight? | May 28 19:19 |
neighborlee | yes | May 28 19:19 |
_Hicham_ | I know about it | May 28 19:19 |
neighborlee | and ? | May 28 19:19 |
_Hicham_ | I know all of the Forbidden Items | May 28 19:20 |
_Hicham_ | and I completely agree with them | May 28 19:20 |
neighborlee | and you just disagree | May 28 19:20 |
neighborlee | the point is | May 28 19:20 |
neighborlee | why that and not flash | May 28 19:20 |
neighborlee | unless you think adobe is going to all of a sudden sue linux..like microsoft has threatened ???? | May 28 19:21 |
neighborlee | I didn't think so. | May 28 19:21 |
neighborlee | unless you have urls' to share with us. | May 28 19:21 |
_Hicham_ | I am against flash too | May 28 19:23 |
_Hicham_ | I use swfdec most of the time | May 28 19:23 |
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DaemonFC | I use Flash, but flv is just an open container format | May 28 19:32 |
DaemonFC | which is why flv should work better than it does with swfdec or GNASH | May 28 19:33 |
DaemonFC | it's just a capsule containing something like h.264 or something | May 28 19:33 |
DaemonFC | so it should just pass everything along to gstreamer or xine | May 28 19:33 |
DaemonFC | so those things work worse than they should considering the capsule is documented and the codecs work fine | May 28 19:34 |
Balrog | Just tried out gnome epiphany 2.27.2 (based on webkit-gtk, considered 'very unstable') ... seems to work well and is fast | May 28 19:36 |
DaemonFC | you can even use VLC to shift the media inside the FLV capsule into it's own MPEG-4 file :P with no quality loss | May 28 19:36 |
Balrog | also it basically passes the acid3 test (though it could be faster) | May 28 19:37 |
Balrog | hmm ... it even has the Safari web inspector =) | May 28 19:38 |
DaemonFC | "The United States is a respected democracy that over the years has permitted the use of torture - all this for a good cause and for the protection of the society. A prison society is growing quickly and is operated by the private sector. Approximately 2% of the population is serving a sentence, most of them in a prison. Private prison operators are even traded on the stock market and they... | May 28 19:48 |
DaemonFC | ...are known to be very profitable and sustainable as more and more prisons are built and more and more people are put into prison (the amount of people in prison increases each year by 4%). "Producing" convicted criminals HAS BECOME A HIGHLY PROFITABLE INDUSTRY and more and more criminals have to be produced so that the money keeps coming. There are credible rumors of bribes from operators... | May 28 19:48 |
DaemonFC | ...of the prison to the judges and prosecutors - they pay premiums for so-called new convictions that result in a prison stay. So you don't have to be so picky in any investigation, let alone employ qualified officers - this way there is always sufficient supply of people to put in prison - AND ESPECIALLY YOU HAVE TO CRIMINALIZE A LOT OF THINGS. Now, at this point, the reader should pause... | May 28 19:48 |
DaemonFC | ...and do a little reflection on their part, and let this go once more through their brain. Beautiful, great democracy." | May 28 19:48 |
DaemonFC | that's why they have three strikes laws and dial up maximum sentencing laws every chance they get | May 28 19:50 |
DaemonFC | the more people they put in prison, the more the bribes keep flowing | May 28 19:50 |
DaemonFC | and the more convict laborers you get | May 28 19:50 |
schestowitz | I've just had a long chat with the indoctrinated | May 28 19:51 |
schestowitz | It's so amusing to see how they react | May 28 19:51 |
schestowitz | It's tiring to them | May 28 19:51 |
schestowitz | Half an hour with occasional contractions to their well-embedded 'knowledge' :-) | May 28 19:51 |
schestowitz | I think I've made a hobby out of this | May 28 19:52 |
schestowitz | It's actually more interesting talking to indoctrinated (sheepsih) people then to enlightened ones | May 28 19:52 |
schestowitz | Don't get me started on astrology :-) | May 28 19:52 |
schestowitz | The word Astrology reassembles Scientology, maybe for good measure. | May 28 19:53 |
schestowitz | Making money out of ignorance and make-belief mumbo-jumbo | May 28 19:54 |
DaemonFC | apparently in the UK they put the VICTIMS of sex crimes in a database to be monitored and treated like criminals | May 28 19:54 |
DaemonFC | under a presumption that they'll now go out and offend | May 28 19:54 |
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schestowitz | I think so | May 28 19:55 |
schestowitz | For pedophiles anyway | May 28 19:55 |
DaemonFC | no, they put the victims in the database | May 28 19:56 |
schestowitz | Oh. | May 28 19:56 |
DaemonFC | to harass and humiliate | May 28 19:56 |
schestowitz | What?? | May 28 19:56 |
DaemonFC | the "victims become offenders" mentality | May 28 19:56 |
schestowitz | To share with employers and recruiters too? | May 28 19:56 |
DaemonFC | the poice have the database | May 28 19:56 |
schestowitz | So is some girl is molested by her dad, then not only is she scarred for life but also flagged by the bobbies? | May 28 19:56 |
DaemonFC | *police | May 28 19:56 |
DaemonFC | yes | May 28 19:56 |
schestowitz | Sad. | May 28 19:56 |
schestowitz | Can you confirm? | May 28 19:57 |
DaemonFC | these laws are getting out of hand | May 28 19:57 |
schestowitz | I don't wan to propagate lies. | May 28 19:57 |
DaemonFC | being used like that and to convict minors | May 28 19:57 |
schestowitz | I though it worked the opposite way sometimes | May 28 19:57 |
schestowitz | The abused won't abuse | May 28 19:57 |
schestowitz | As in, one generation beats the hell out of the kid, so the kid promises never to do the same | May 28 19:57 |
DaemonFC | well, first the laws were simple, like age of consent, child porn, stuff like that | May 28 19:57 |
schestowitz | Then again, one can claim the opposite | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | This needs studying | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | There's also the genetic factor | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | Hilter was messed up as a child too, AFAIK | May 28 19:58 |
DaemonFC | but in the US now, if you're like say 17, and you take a nude and send it to your girlfriend who may also be 17 | May 28 19:58 |
DaemonFC | you get charged under the same pedophile laws | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | Yeah, that's funny | May 28 19:58 |
DaemonFC | the ones used to convict adults | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | Outrageous morelike | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | The articles were funny | May 28 19:58 |
schestowitz | Like bunch of kids arrested | May 28 19:59 |
schestowitz | As though they are sex offenders | May 28 19:59 |
DaemonFC | it's not funny, it's tragic | May 28 19:59 |
DaemonFC | this was the goal of the churches all along | May 28 19:59 |
schestowitz | Boys will be boys, even at 15 or whatever | May 28 19:59 |
DaemonFC | to move closer and closer to just criminalizing all sexuality | May 28 19:59 |
DaemonFC | by starting with something awful and moving more into criminalizing the mainstream | May 28 19:59 |
schestowitz | What pisses me off is that they chase teens who sext instead of chasing down the Big Criminals | May 28 19:59 |
schestowitz | Like the SEC syndicates, Intel, and so on. | May 28 20:00 |
schestowitz | "criminalizing all sexuality" = like they call it, "Jesusland"? | May 28 20:00 |
DaemonFC | yeah, those people making billions of dollars off the shit and the FBI is out in Virginia chasing two horny teenagers | May 28 20:00 |
DaemonFC | gah :P | May 28 20:00 |
schestowitz | Maybe some day in the future the Holy Ghost will give birth to the next generations | May 28 20:00 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I think criminalisation is importanty | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | It's control | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | Criminalise drinking water | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | Come down knocking on people's houses if you don't like it | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | Zebra crossing... | May 28 20:01 |
DaemonFC | that's the real goal of these religious organizations, criminalization of all sexuality under the initial guise of hunting down and punishing perverts | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | Tax incosistencies.. | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | Didn't OBAMAA smoke pot? | May 28 20:01 |
schestowitz | I know Dubya did | May 28 20:02 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Obama admitted it | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | Can they arrest Dubya for drug charges ;-p ? | May 28 20:02 |
DaemonFC | joked about it even | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | Well, there ya go !! | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | Even I never did drugs | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | Except alcohol | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | I guess Obama will get sympathy | May 28 20:02 |
DaemonFC | I've smoked pot | May 28 20:02 |
DaemonFC | doesn't do good things to me :P | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | From a nation of one-time joint smoker | May 28 20:02 |
schestowitz | "he's just like one of us" | May 28 20:03 |
schestowitz | "he has a ranch" | May 28 20:03 |
schestowitz | "he cuts brush.." | May 28 20:03 |
schestowitz | "He... smoked some shizzle" | May 28 20:03 |
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schestowitz | Criminalise everything | May 28 20:04 |
schestowitz | Pros: | May 28 20:04 |
DaemonFC | Christians and Taliban have nothing in common..... The Taliban wanted to ban music, burn books, criminalize sex acts not tolerated by their belief system, kill or convert everyone else.....and the Christians.....well, shit | May 28 20:04 |
schestowitz | 1. Got smears | May 28 20:04 |
DaemonFC | lol | May 28 20:04 |
schestowitz | 2. Civil control | May 28 20:05 |
schestowitz | 3. Humility | May 28 20:05 |
schestowitz | 4. fear of authority (you're always afraid of being charged) | May 28 20:05 |
schestowitz | Hey, didn't George Michael got arrested or something for jerking off in LA? | May 28 20:05 |
schestowitz | *get | May 28 20:05 |
DaemonFC | the laws aren't there to reduce crime, they're there to make you too afraid to disobey the state, and failing that they can have you working as a convict laborer for minimal expense | May 28 20:06 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 20:06 |
schestowitz | Or smear them | May 28 20:06 |
schestowitz | Smear them out of influence | May 28 20:06 |
schestowitz | They did it to Kate Moss here, I thinl | May 28 20:06 |
schestowitz | Cause they caught her with some drug | May 28 20:06 |
DaemonFC | that's who they should be dumping in Iraq, those people that masturbate in public and talk to buidings | May 28 20:06 |
DaemonFC | that should freak them out | May 28 20:07 |
DaemonFC | :D | May 28 20:07 |
Balrog | i9 | May 28 20:08 |
Balrog | sorry | May 28 20:08 |
schestowitz | Wrong password. Try again. | May 28 20:08 |
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DaemonFC | FoxIt reader is becoming a foistware pusher | May 28 20:11 |
*DaemonFC is reading the Swine Flu Director's Update Brief | May 28 20:12 | |
DaemonFC | from the CDC :P | May 28 20:12 |
schestowitz | KOffice 2.0.0 is now officially released! http://dot.kde.org/2009/05/28/koffice-200-released | May 28 20:13 |
schestowitz | Nice screenshots here of Linux games including Yo Frankie! http://www.dedoimedo.com/games/linux-games-another-collection.html | May 28 20:16 |
neighborlee | yeah its alot of fun....:))go blender! ;)) | May 28 20:17 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Why does Wikileaks use Windows Media? | May 28 20:18 |
neighborlee | and go #blender ;))) | May 28 20:18 |
schestowitz | HP carries the Linux torch with new Mini 110 < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25304/53/ > Serious or just PR? | May 28 20:18 |
neighborlee | smooth huh ;) | May 28 20:18 |
DaemonFC | http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/wsb-removed-hsus-expose-2009.wmv | May 28 20:18 |
neighborlee | hmmmm | May 28 20:18 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: played the game yet? | May 28 20:18 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, nice ;0- | May 28 20:18 |
schestowitz | I might try it | May 28 20:18 |
neighborlee | some | May 28 20:18 |
neighborlee | excellent | May 28 20:19 |
schestowitz | Matt Cutts got the Wii fit working with Linux | May 28 20:19 |
schestowitz | Maybe there's room for user interaction there | May 28 20:19 |
neighborlee | interesting | May 28 20:19 |
schestowitz | Some flight simulators in Linux use the Wiimote | May 28 20:19 |
schestowitz | Mandriva demo-ed it | May 28 20:19 |
neighborlee | nice | May 28 20:19 |
schestowitz | Well, a Mandriva emloyee IIRC | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | I just wish they would remove you know what | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | Not the company per se | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | ahhhh | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | From GNOME? | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | yes | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | KDE is clean | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | In 2008.1 | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | though..I realize kde is their default env of course | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | Not sure about successors | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | I lobbied them in 2009.0 | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | ahhh | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | what was their answer | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | They wanted to ship OOo with Mono | May 28 20:20 |
neighborlee | OMG | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | They say it was an accident | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | Then fixed it | May 28 20:20 |
schestowitz | So KDE shipped without the blasting monkey | May 28 20:21 |
schestowitz | Spank the mono | May 28 20:21 |
schestowitz | Novell spanks the mono | May 28 20:21 |
neighborlee | one thing I always loved about mand*, was urpmX tools | May 28 20:23 |
neighborlee | urpmf was a fond favorite | May 28 20:23 |
neighborlee | its a shame fedora's tool is so convoluted | May 28 20:23 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/13/microsoft-admitted-mono-trap/ | May 28 20:23 |
schestowitz | See the comments too | May 28 20:24 |
schestowitz | This post -- while old -- might still be valuable too | May 28 20:24 |
neighborlee | I saw that I think..let me see | May 28 20:24 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, I still see how a developer can be blind to the threat...frankly I find it scary | May 28 20:26 |
neighborlee | I mean beyond the work for food bit... | May 28 20:26 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, yeah mono minefield is a good one...good article | May 28 20:28 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, thats why mono is so problematic..people that dont have time to investigate such things..have no idea of the implications so its left to those that do and to inform..and we you try, you get blasted by ubuntu forum police that your are inflaming :))) | May 28 20:29 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u use compiz? | May 28 20:30 |
schestowitz | Yes | May 28 20:30 |
schestowitz | At home | May 28 20:30 |
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_Hicham_ | It seems that it is related to the Firefox slow scrolling problem | May 28 20:30 |
schestowitz | Very possible | May 28 20:31 |
schestowitz | Did they tell you that? | May 28 20:31 |
_Hicham_ | I googled about it | May 28 20:32 |
_Hicham_ | another cause is background images | May 28 20:32 |
schestowitz | NYSE Euronext CIO to Deliver Keynote at 2009 Red Hat Summit < http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090527005196&newsLang=en > | May 28 20:32 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: that's the one | May 28 20:32 |
schestowitz | Especially if they stay static | May 28 20:33 |
schestowitz | Firefox has always done bad at that | May 28 20:33 |
schestowitz | Trranslueceny over statis bg | May 28 20:33 |
schestowitz | *Translucency | May 28 20:33 |
DaemonFC | how does Wikileaks get all this? | May 28 20:35 |
schestowitz | Linux is Mint.. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cfeRiRRanuk/Sh4Syql1IPI/AAAAAAAABb8/Lggq6pMQYyg/s1600-h/Screenshot-2.png | May 28 20:37 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: people. | May 28 20:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/selinux-vs-apparmor-vs-grsecurity.html (Linux Kernel Security (SELinux vs AppArmor vs Grsecurity) | May 28 20:39 |
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_Hicham_ | schestowitz : I have found a workaround | May 28 20:51 |
_Hicham_ | to the slow scrolling problem | May 28 20:51 |
schestowitz | Thanks. Share pls | May 28 20:55 |
schestowitz | tacone: in the headlien there is a grammar issue | May 28 20:55 |
schestowitz | The post about keeping the monkey in his cage | May 28 20:55 |
tacone | ? | May 28 20:55 |
tacone | oh | May 28 20:55 |
schestowitz | The end of the headline | May 28 20:55 |
schestowitz | "Prevent from" | May 28 20:55 |
schestowitz | Or something like that | May 28 20:56 |
tacone | Strip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent it to come back | May 28 20:56 |
tacone | thx | May 28 20:56 |
tacone | english is not really my language | May 28 20:56 |
tacone | Strip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent from come back ? | May 28 20:56 |
tacone | Strip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent it from come back ? | May 28 20:57 |
DaemonFC | I agree with this DHS report on rightwing extremism | May 28 20:57 |
DaemonFC | I don't know why they apologized for it | May 28 20:57 |
schestowitz | tacone: "from coming back" | May 28 20:57 |
tacone | right | May 28 20:58 |
schestowitz | Happens to all of us whose first lang is not EN | May 28 20:58 |
tacone | too long | May 28 20:58 |
tacone | Strip Mono from Ubuntu and prevent its come back | May 28 20:58 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: which doc? | May 28 20:58 |
tacone | better ? | May 28 20:58 |
schestowitz | Got URL? | May 28 20:58 |
DaemonFC | http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/us-dhs-right-wing-extremism-2009.pdf | May 28 20:58 |
schestowitz | "its comeback" | May 28 20:59 |
tacone | ok ok, i put yours | May 28 20:59 |
schestowitz | "Return of the champ..." :-) | May 28 20:59 |
schestowitz | Planet of the Apes | May 28 20:59 |
schestowitz | Beating a [dead] monkey | May 28 20:59 |
schestowitz | Spanking a money (mono) | May 28 20:59 |
schestowitz | *key | May 28 20:59 |
schestowitz | DHS is poisoned by MS now | May 28 21:00 |
schestowitz | MS exec on top | May 28 21:00 |
schestowitz | After BSA lobbying | May 28 21:00 |
schestowitz | BSA=Microsoft lobby | May 28 21:00 |
schestowitz | DHS was probably that who said p2p promotes terrorism | May 28 21:00 |
schestowitz | These guys are control freaks | May 28 21:00 |
schestowitz | Like the SS, pardon the analogy | May 28 21:00 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xfqkdh5Js4 | May 28 21:01 |
schestowitz | Saved 4 l8er | May 28 21:02 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: You might find this interesting | May 28 21:09 |
DaemonFC | Ilene Rosenthal, that attorney in the that 1992 Don't Copy That Floppy video | May 28 21:10 |
DaemonFC | http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/ilene-rosenthal.asp?cycle=08 | May 28 21:10 |
DaemonFC | she throws campaign contributions at the Democrats | May 28 21:10 |
tacone | best headline ever: http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_management/2009052802035NWDPMS | May 28 21:10 |
DaemonFC | http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/ilene-rosenthal.asp?cycle=08 | May 28 21:11 |
DaemonFC | https://secure.indems.org/page/contribute/2009jjdinner | May 28 21:16 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPeLpAdiJpY&feature=player_embedded | May 28 21:19 |
schestowitz | x $1,250.00 Table | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | Table of 10 general reception and dinner attendees | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | x $100.00 Party Patron | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | Party Patron tickets are ONLY available to individuals enrolled in the IDP Party Patron recurring donation program. Each Party Patron is entitled to ONE ticket at the Party Patron rate. | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | Food is not so expensive | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | it's an excuse for bribe | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | same with obama | May 28 21:22 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/30/obama-takes-it-personally/ | May 28 21:23 |
_Hicham_ | I disabled background images | May 28 21:24 |
_Hicham_ | BN scrolls faster | May 28 21:24 |
schestowitz | Yay. Chrysler dead | May 28 21:24 |
schestowitz | good riddance | May 28 21:24 |
schestowitz | tacone: fiat to buy bits of Chrysler | May 28 21:24 |
_Hicham_ | I modified userContent.css | May 28 21:25 |
DaemonFC | yeah, my ex left me and moved to LaPorte to work at that Chrysler plant | May 28 21:25 |
DaemonFC | figured his mom would find him a job that he'd have all his life | May 28 21:25 |
DaemonFC | and that jst obviously doesn't happen anymore | May 28 21:25 |
_Hicham_ | added : *{backgound-image : none !important;} | May 28 21:25 |
DaemonFC | he did have a decent job for all of 3 years | May 28 21:26 |
DaemonFC | too bad he blew it all on drugs or he'd have something left to go to college with | May 28 21:26 |
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schestowitz | _Hicham_: !ok; | May 28 21:31 |
DaemonFC | at least Mitch Daniels is constitutionally prohibited from running for reelection in 2012 | May 28 21:32 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 21:32 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : it is not the perfect solution | May 28 21:32 |
DaemonFC | our governor is basically hiding under his desk while he's selling off the state to foreign companies | May 28 21:33 |
DaemonFC | he was George W. Bush's director of the Office of Management and Budget for a couple years :P | May 28 21:34 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: That dinner is a campaign fundraiser for Indiana's Democratic congressmen | May 28 21:35 |
DaemonFC | keeping them there is important | May 28 21:35 |
DaemonFC | poaching another seat would be nice | May 28 21:35 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 21:36 |
_Hicham_ | I am voting for u DaemonFC | May 28 21:36 |
_Hicham_ | you would do a good governor | May 28 21:36 |
DaemonFC | better than what we have | May 28 21:37 |
DaemonFC | but then again, my cat is more qualified than Mitch Daniels | May 28 21:37 |
DaemonFC | :) | May 28 21:37 |
_Hicham_ | I believe in u | May 28 21:37 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: do other sites give the same problem? | May 28 21:38 |
DaemonFC | stuff would get done | May 28 21:38 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : yes | May 28 21:38 |
_Hicham_ | as long as there is transparent background images | May 28 21:38 |
DaemonFC | if I were to become governor at this point, my first act would be an executive order | May 28 21:38 |
DaemonFC | rescinding all pending deals to privatize state agencies | May 28 21:38 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: cats would not accept bribes | May 28 21:38 |
schestowitz | Just food. Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........ | May 28 21:38 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC would not take bribes | May 28 21:39 |
_Hicham_ | isn't it DaemonFC? | May 28 21:39 |
DaemonFC | damn right I wouldn't | May 28 21:39 |
schestowitz | You have a wage | May 28 21:39 |
DaemonFC | I'd go nuclear on those assholes | May 28 21:39 |
schestowitz | To keep integrity | May 28 21:39 |
DaemonFC | veto pen :) | May 28 21:39 |
schestowitz | Nukeeelar | May 28 21:39 |
_Hicham_ | this governor is old | May 28 21:40 |
_Hicham_ | u need sarah palin | May 28 21:40 |
_Hicham_ | which is still sexy | May 28 21:40 |
DaemonFC | no, I'd establish a state website where I could point out exactly why I vetoed anything I vetoed | May 28 21:40 |
_Hicham_ | I don't know why all americans want to see her naked | May 28 21:40 |
DaemonFC | and I wouldn't hide from the media | May 28 21:40 |
schestowitz | Will you swear on the bible that you shalt not bribe? | May 28 21:41 |
schestowitz | With your right hand on ot? | May 28 21:41 |
schestowitz | *it | May 28 21:41 |
DaemonFC | no, because every public official that does that ends up taking bribes | May 28 21:41 |
DaemonFC | and I don't want to inherit their curse | May 28 21:41 |
DaemonFC | ;) | May 28 21:41 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: she had at least 5 kids, you probably want to see the young Palin ahem.. exposed | May 28 21:42 |
_Hicham_ | it is not me | May 28 21:42 |
_Hicham_ | it is the americans | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | I know. | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | She's in her 40s AFAIK | May 28 21:42 |
_Hicham_ | yes | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: they take bribes all the time | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | But it's called something else | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | Like "Dinners" | May 28 21:42 |
_Hicham_ | gifts | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | See my link above | May 28 21:42 |
schestowitz | About MS execs paying Obama | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | PERSONALLY | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | ballmer | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | Both Steve and his wife | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | The two Gateses | May 28 21:43 |
_Hicham_ | MS is great | May 28 21:43 |
DaemonFC | I'm a party member :P | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | Brad Smith... | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | The whole club | May 28 21:43 |
_Hicham_ | there are helping the world | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | Bribing him | May 28 21:43 |
DaemonFC | I volunteer at the local office sometimes | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | $50k for nothing. | May 28 21:43 |
schestowitz | Just bribe | May 28 21:43 |
_Hicham_ | without MS, no one would have learned how to use a comp | May 28 21:43 |
DaemonFC | no, my take on the issue is a little different | May 28 21:43 |
DaemonFC | without Microsoft, there's be another company just as bad | May 28 21:44 |
DaemonFC | OR | May 28 21:44 |
schestowitz | Microsoft helps me... | May 28 21:44 |
DaemonFC | 10 competing standards that are mutually incompatible | May 28 21:44 |
DaemonFC | like the 80s | May 28 21:44 |
schestowitz | ...gain experience in studying white-collar crime | May 28 21:44 |
_Hicham_ | MS has unified the Web | May 28 21:45 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft killed off all those because they wre stupid enough to try and do their own hardware too (Apple, Commodore, Tandy, etc.) | May 28 21:45 |
DaemonFC | and so they never got their economy of scale | May 28 21:45 |
_Hicham_ | MS has unified programming languages | May 28 21:45 |
DaemonFC | the PC is an open platform that can run many operating systems | May 28 21:46 |
DaemonFC | Apple was just another closed system that only ran one OS | May 28 21:46 |
_Hicham_ | MS has unified word processing | May 28 21:46 |
DaemonFC | and cost too much | May 28 21:46 |
DaemonFC | now an Apple is PC hardware with DRM enforcement for the operating system | May 28 21:46 |
_Hicham_ | MS has given their software for free to third world countries | May 28 21:46 |
DaemonFC | so they can still gouge | May 28 21:46 |
DaemonFC | quite clever really | May 28 21:46 |
_Hicham_ | MS is helping poor people | May 28 21:47 |
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DaemonFC | most people have no idea that Windows is as portable as OS X is | May 28 21:47 |
DaemonFC | but there's no need for a transition because no hardware is really worth transitioning to | May 28 21:48 |
DaemonFC | I thought one thing Ubuntu said was pretty damned funny, maybe even the only real plus they have over Debian | May 28 21:49 |
DaemonFC | in their Manifesto | May 28 21:49 |
_Hicham_ | u can't port Windows easily | May 28 21:49 |
_Hicham_ | their build system is fucking weird | May 28 21:49 |
DaemonFC | "Debian will not include something if it fails to build on even one CPU family, we're only worried about 3" | May 28 21:49 |
DaemonFC | now it's down to two | May 28 21:49 |
DaemonFC | the only two that matter | May 28 21:49 |
DaemonFC | errr, Debian has like 12 | May 28 21:50 |
DaemonFC | so that's part of the reason Debian releases are so slow | May 28 21:50 |
DaemonFC | they worry about architectures nobody uses | May 28 21:50 |
_Hicham_ | yes, that is true | May 28 21:51 |
_Hicham_ | Debian is the universal operating system | May 28 21:51 |
DaemonFC | yuck | May 28 21:51 |
_Hicham_ | it u encounter an alien, he will be using Debian | May 28 21:51 |
DaemonFC | which makes Deian useless if you're on a PC | May 28 21:51 |
DaemonFC | because every other distro soars past them | May 28 21:51 |
_Hicham_ | if u are on a pc, use fedora | May 28 21:51 |
DaemonFC | *Debian | May 28 21:51 |
_Hicham_ | it always features the latest and greatest | May 28 21:52 |
DaemonFC | I've never seen any other OS sacrifice an important arch to go after 10 others that nobody uses | May 28 21:52 |
_Hicham_ | new kernels are provided within 2 days of their official release | May 28 21:52 |
DaemonFC | that's like blowing up a machine to save the fuse | May 28 21:52 |
_Hicham_ | Firefox is updated immediately | May 28 21:52 |
DaemonFC | with x86(-64) to have over 96% of Linux users | May 28 21:53 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC package get also updated frequently | May 28 21:53 |
_Hicham_ | hahahaha | May 28 21:53 |
DaemonFC | and the next closest is like PPC with 3% | May 28 21:53 |
DaemonFC | *you | May 28 21:53 |
_Hicham_ | Intel hardware is the most common | May 28 21:53 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahaha | May 28 21:53 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahahaha | May 28 21:53 |
DaemonFC | so Debian counts x86-64 as an arch, so you have them supporting 12 arches, only 2 really matter, PPC support is cool but probably shouldn't really hold up the development | May 28 21:54 |
DaemonFC | and 9 archs that are of no importance at all | May 28 21:54 |
DaemonFC | ever | May 28 21:54 |
_Hicham_ | convince them of that | May 28 21:55 |
DaemonFC | it also takes some serious resources to compile and package, even for only one arch | May 28 21:55 |
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DaemonFC | so they're wasting tons of systems to build versions of Debian that nobody can even use | May 28 21:56 |
schestowitz | load average: 2.27, 5.35, 3.34 | May 28 21:56 |
DaemonFC | I mean these need to be dedicated systems too | May 28 21:56 |
schestowitz | Lots of traffic or just weird... | May 28 21:56 |
DaemonFC | Fedora bogs down a couple of badass systems just building for 2 archs | May 28 21:56 |
DaemonFC | so Debian is squanderinging money and then asking for donations | May 28 21:57 |
DaemonFC | *squandering | May 28 21:57 |
DaemonFC | the correct thing to do is not a universal OS, but rather an "Everyone has a PC anyway, so fuck it" OS | May 28 21:58 |
DaemonFC | which is what every other distro does really | May 28 21:58 |
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*DaemonFC beats _Hicham_ over the head with a Debian system running on a Motorola 68k CPU | May 28 22:00 | |
DaemonFC | just as soon as I can find one | May 28 22:00 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | May 28 22:00 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahahaha | May 28 22:00 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC, alias Indiana Jones of Boycottnovell | May 28 22:01 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is portable too | May 28 22:04 |
_Hicham_ | you can compile DaemonFC on all platforms | May 28 22:04 |
_Hicham_ | but u should optimize with -O3 flag | May 28 22:04 |
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DaemonFC | yes, George Lucas is familiar with Indiana | May 28 22:10 |
DaemonFC | the woman in Raiders of the Lost Ark, Marion | May 28 22:11 |
DaemonFC | I live about 20 miles north of Marion, Indiana :P | May 28 22:11 |
DaemonFC | of course it used to be a thriving city with plenty of industry | May 28 22:12 |
DaemonFC | now the roads all have potholes, the factories are boarded up, and everyone in the town is selling drugs, on welfare, or working low end jobs | May 28 22:12 |
DaemonFC | it's gone from both extremes in about 10 years | May 28 22:13 |
DaemonFC | the New York Times used Marion as a prime example of the effects of NAFTA | May 28 22:13 |
DaemonFC | basically NAFTA has bled the United States and shifted the money to Mexico, which might be OK on some level if any of it actually went to the workers there | May 28 22:15 |
DaemonFC | (it doesn't) | May 28 22:16 |
DaemonFC | instead the rich elites have used it as a smash and grab and if any Mexican has benefited from it, it would be people like Carlos Slim | May 28 22:16 |
DaemonFC | so it was intended to fuck over working people to benefit the wealthy | May 28 22:16 |
DaemonFC | and has succeeded spectacularly | May 28 22:17 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Microsoft's XBOX 360 repair center takes advantage of NAFTA | May 28 22:18 |
DaemonFC | they have you ship your malfunctioning XBOX 360 to McAllen, Texas, and from there they just load them all onto a truck and take them a few miles into Mexico | May 28 22:18 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, eek ..I used tohave a 360,,until I found out the price of going online with it..no thanks...and tech support was always india...again no thanks so I got a ps3 instead | May 28 22:19 |
DaemonFC | they pop out the motherboard, throw it into a scrap heap | May 28 22:19 |
DaemonFC | pop in a new motherboard and send it out as a refurb | May 28 22:19 |
DaemonFC | from there the bad boards get shipped back to China to be broken down for scrap | May 28 22:19 |
schestowitz | That's amazing | May 28 22:20 |
DaemonFC | of course the price value of the scrap can go up or down | May 28 22:20 |
schestowitz | I never knew just how effective NAFTA became | May 28 22:20 |
DaemonFC | so they can also dispose of it in Mexican landfills | May 28 22:20 |
schestowitz | The press didn't cover it, you know? | May 28 22:20 |
schestowitz | Just shows who controls the press :-p | May 28 22:20 |
schestowitz | Sheesh!! | May 28 22:20 |
DaemonFC | they did, not enough to show what it really was going to do | May 28 22:20 |
DaemonFC | but now it's too late | May 28 22:20 |
schestowitz | ACTA is the new NAFTA | May 28 22:21 |
DaemonFC | I don't really see how ACTA could possibly be as bad | May 28 22:21 |
DaemonFC | and ACTA goes directly against the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution | May 28 22:23 |
DaemonFC | the ISP cooperation clause | May 28 22:24 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, of course the RIAA back it | May 28 22:25 |
DaemonFC | just follow the smell of bullshit and money and there they are | May 28 22:26 |
DaemonFC | my guess is that Canada will pass it before we do | May 28 22:26 |
DaemonFC | Canada has always bent over for the record industry | May 28 22:27 |
DaemonFC | they even charge "piracy tax" on blank CDs | May 28 22:27 |
schestowitz | Read the document | May 28 22:28 |
schestowitz | There's more than that | May 28 22:28 |
DaemonFC | you notice that no government anywhere is scared of their citizens | May 28 22:29 |
DaemonFC | in the slightest | May 28 22:29 |
DaemonFC | think there may be a reason for that? :) | May 28 22:29 |
DaemonFC | they don't fear consequences because there are none, you can vote them out of office because someone just like them will replace that official | May 28 22:31 |
DaemonFC | and you can't overthrow them because they've turned the police into a military | May 28 22:31 |
DaemonFC | the government controls everything on TV through the FCC | May 28 22:33 |
DaemonFC | and a lot of what's on the internet if nothing makes you want to dig a little deeper | May 28 22:33 |
DaemonFC | 1 in every 50 Americans is in jail or prison | May 28 22:34 |
neighborlee | for what spitting on the streeets ? ;) | May 28 22:35 |
DaemonFC | most of them are not hardened criminals, it's just that there's so many laws that they can arrest you for anything now | May 28 22:35 |
DaemonFC | they grip a little tighter and say that they have authority now over something they never claimed before | May 28 22:36 |
DaemonFC | they set precedents so that they can keep running afoul of the constitution | May 28 22:36 |
DaemonFC | or sometimes they do a PATRIOT Act and just throw 1,000 pages of law that is almost certainly all unconstitutional at the wall | May 28 22:37 |
DaemonFC | and see what sticks | May 28 22:37 |
DaemonFC | then they use amendments to the PATRIOT Act to renew and reauthorize unrelated things so that a judge can't strike the PATRIOT Act totally | May 28 22:39 |
DaemonFC | but has to go through line by line as the government uses each clause | May 28 22:39 |
DaemonFC | it can take years fighting through the court system just to strike down 1% of the crap in the PATRIOT Act | May 28 22:41 |
DaemonFC | and that has happened, parts of it were struck down just like that | May 28 22:41 |
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DaemonFC | but the difficulty of doing it is the whole point | May 28 22:41 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: doing what? | May 28 22:42 |
DaemonFC | explaining the Patriot Act | May 28 22:42 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: oh that golden nugget of law enforcement goodness | May 28 22:43 |
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DaemonFC | The Patriot Act amounts to "Here's 1,000 horrible things we can do to you. You have to wait til we've done one of them to oppose JUST that one piece. And if you get that one piece struck after 3 years in the court system, then there's still the other 999 things | May 28 22:43 |
DaemonFC | The Patriot Act was written before 9/11, because there's no way you can come up with a bill that long rife with so many abuses so quickly | May 28 22:44 |
DaemonFC | my guess is that the government was keeping a laundry list of rights they wanted to take away as a draft bill, that "became" the Patriot Act, after they had an excuse to introduce it | May 28 22:45 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: you would be surprised how quickly bills can be drafted if there is motivation for them, take all those Bills forced by the Telecom Lobby focused squarely at Net Neutrality | May 28 22:46 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: I am sure some of the clauses were thought of while the Patriot Act was a glimmer in the NSA's eye | May 28 22:47 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: but you can be suprised how quickly bills can be drafted and also how quickly they are pushed forward because the so called reprisentatives do not read it closely enough because its being pushed with sweet soft money incentives | May 28 22:48 |
neighborlee | the laws , while not perfect are meant as a guideline, to maintain order...sure some are prob. too strict, but without them could we really expect citizens to police themselves...you would shortly have mayhem in the streets ..we dont live in utopia quite yet..but yes sadly alot of people i n jail are also falsely convicted, now some overturned due to DNA testing | May 28 22:49 |
neighborlee | It also depends on ones background, peers, education..alot of things...utopia wont be built in a day. | May 28 22:49 |
neighborlee | and thanks to busy..its going to take a tad bit longer ;) | May 28 22:49 |
neighborlee | ............bush | May 28 22:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: citizens can do a great job of policing themselves, all the tax payers money being poured into forensic labs and investigative databases amounts to something. Also, all the due process in place is to ensure the "citizens" have a piece of mind when interacting with their reprisentatives in law enforcement. | May 28 22:51 |
neighborlee | many would yes...many also would not. | May 28 22:51 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: has the Patriot Act helped US agents catch any terrorists? The folks at the NSA easedropping facility in West Virginia admit themselves that they end up screening more calls concerning people calling oversees to their relatives serving in Afghanistan and Iraq then anyone else | May 28 22:52 |
neighborlee | Considering who was behind writing it..who amoungst us is real surprised ;)) | May 28 22:52 |
neighborlee | give obama a chance to fix things. | May 28 22:53 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: agreed about the FCC | May 28 22:53 |
schestowitz | It's scary how censorship works | May 28 22:53 |
schestowitz | It's proactive | May 28 22:53 |
schestowitz | Via editors and broadcasters | May 28 22:53 |
schestowitz | You needn't look far to see how 'troublemakers' (like some professors) get sidelines and kept out of public television | May 28 22:53 |
neighborlee | and if you dont like whats going on get involved and get new laws passed | May 28 22:54 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: also why is there a need for this "Homeland Security" isn't the issue with the intelligence community and law enforcement prior was that they were big beuracracies that had issues interacting with eachother to colaborate towards any big intelligence breakthroughs for national security? Why would introducing yet another beaurocracy help? | May 28 22:54 |
neighborlee | I am..all of us can. | May 28 22:54 |
neighborlee | when bush came in...he got rid of all who knew what they were doing, and put in his own cronies... | May 28 22:55 |
neighborlee | so yeah- | May 28 22:55 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: why would Obama want to fix it, thanks to Homeland it is the executive branch that has more controll on how to focus intelligence and law enforcement then anyone else now. He will just close Gitmo and sweep it under the rug as to make things look different to the public | May 28 22:55 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: thats what most reprisentatives do when they are ellected... appoint their own cabinet and judiciaries | May 28 22:55 |
neighborlee | Carl_Rover2k12, what have you done for the cause lately , is what Im getting at | May 28 22:56 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: what do you think of the latest Supreme Court judge Obama appointed? | May 28 22:56 |
neighborlee | its fine to be aware..action speeks louder often ;) | May 28 22:56 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: what "cause" is there which I can benefit from | May 28 22:56 |
neighborlee | you mean us ? | May 28 22:56 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: sure but because my opinion differs then your's it therfore becomes mine | May 28 22:57 |
neighborlee | You have the same lobbying power I do | May 28 22:57 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: sorry but liberties are in the United States were written to uphold the indivisual, not the public | May 28 22:57 |
neighborlee | afterall this is still america. | May 28 22:58 |
neighborlee | slighty flawed..but its here ;) | May 28 22:58 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: why should a tax paying citizen need lobbying power, the fact that they pay taxes and participate in ellection is what MAKES IT A DEMOCRACY | May 28 22:58 |
neighborlee | That's naive. | May 28 22:58 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: once you start introducing extra finantial incentives by businesses or collectives it becomes a plutocracy | May 28 22:58 |
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Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: once politicians lose touch with those who appointed them through the electoral process they can't be considered reprisentatives any longer | May 28 23:00 |
schestowitz | Lobbying should be banned | May 28 23:02 |
schestowitz | It's direct intervention by those affected | May 28 23:02 |
schestowitz | Also, elections should be run and funded by taxpayers | May 28 23:02 |
schestowitz | This includes fair promotion of all dandidates | May 28 23:02 |
schestowitz | Based on some criteria for distributing funds | May 28 23:02 |
schestowitz | Candidates must be banned massively where they are found to have taken bribes | May 28 23:02 |
schestowitz | Obama took many bribes | May 28 23:03 |
schestowitz | He said not from lobbysists | May 28 23:03 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Edelman and Walmart practically own PBS | May 28 23:03 |
schestowitz | So he took it from Stever Ballmer, his wife and other families from MS | May 28 23:03 |
schestowitz | Not lobbyists | May 28 23:03 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: you can just tell by the latest ex-coporate litigator who somehow managed to become a district appealate judge of NY | May 28 23:03 |
schestowitz | Just direct SOBs with 6-figure salaries they want to secure | May 28 23:03 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I can imagine | May 28 23:03 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: also the DoJ is now full of ex-RIAA/MPAA cronies | May 28 23:03 |
schestowitz | Edelman was gonna be boycotted by IDG | May 28 23:04 |
schestowitz | Elelman should collect its staff | May 28 23:04 |
DaemonFC | PBS was having money problems so Walmart dumped cash on them in order to get "Sponsored by Walmart" crap all over the place | May 28 23:04 |
schestowitz | Put them in line | May 28 23:04 |
schestowitz | Sent to prison | May 28 23:04 |
schestowitz | 5 Years | May 28 23:04 |
DaemonFC | part of the whitewashing campaign | May 28 23:04 |
schestowitz | Later -- community work | May 28 23:04 |
schestowitz | To try and cleanse the damage they caused to society | May 28 23:04 |
neighborlee | I meant..use what term you wish...I just meant sometimes you need to be proactive in asking for change | May 28 23:04 |
neighborlee | ive done that..and with luck I will win,,,the idea is to try ;)) | May 28 23:04 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: and when you mean "pro-active" you mean the haves can assert their power over the havenots during every electroral campaign and do it without transparency so the public at large doesn't know what the hell the person they ellect may do next? | May 28 23:05 |
DaemonFC | Gov. Mitch Daniels, known for hitting legislative home runs in his first four years in office, struck out this year. | May 28 23:06 |
DaemonFC | He didn’t get any of the local government reforms he sought. Lawmakers failed to pass a budget — and even if they had, it wasn’t the budget he wanted. And his one parameter for an unemployment compensation fix — cuts in benefits — isn’t in the bill legislators passed. | May 28 23:06 |
DaemonFC | Hiding under his desk.... | May 28 23:06 |
DaemonFC | just like I said :P | May 28 23:06 |
DaemonFC | Daniels, who in his first term liked to punctuate each legislative season with a scorecard showing his wins, didn’t bother Thursday when he met with reporters to reflect on the session’s carnage. | May 28 23:07 |
DaemonFC | Asked about what he’d accomplished this session, Daniels said: “Well, we had the school discipline bill.” | May 28 23:07 |
DaemonFC | That relatively minor bill, aimed at protecting teachers from frivolous lawsuits, hardly compares with the kind of success Daniels is used to, including the “Major Moves” Indiana Toll Road lease in 2006 and property tax reforms last year. Which is why Daniels immediately added that he didn’t “quarrel” with the poor assessment of this year’s session. | May 28 23:07 |
neighborlee | oh good grief | May 28 23:09 |
DaemonFC | now Indiana's house and senate have to have a special session to come up with a budget | May 28 23:09 |
DaemonFC | because our governor is a fucking moron | May 28 23:09 |
DaemonFC | :P | May 28 23:09 |
neighborlee | if you get screwed, and sit there and whine..you DESERVE it | May 28 23:09 |
schestowitz | Moron? | May 28 23:09 |
schestowitz | Did you see CA? | May 28 23:09 |
schestowitz | Did you see CA's? | May 28 23:09 |
DaemonFC | Arnold? | May 28 23:09 |
DaemonFC | lmao | May 28 23:09 |
schestowitz | McBain | May 28 23:09 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: funny thing is you see how corrupt the US becomes as this recession seeps in, rather then large corporations saving their earnings to keep their jobs or push it towards more R&D and product rollout they instead launder it into lobbying firms to push for legislation to get tax breaks, push out competition or even get granted federal funds regardless of how many tax paying employees they keep | May 28 23:10 |
DaemonFC | he'd still be better than ours | May 28 23:10 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: and offshoring | May 28 23:10 |
schestowitz | Don't forget | May 28 23:10 |
schestowitz | They must keep their revenue | May 28 23:10 |
schestowitz | Not by means of domentic employment | May 28 23:10 |
schestowitz | So the likes of Ryan and his family get screwed | May 28 23:10 |
DaemonFC | According to Steve Ballmer, MS is not reducing R&D budget | May 28 23:11 |
schestowitz | So that those who 'own the country' can keep the swimming pools | May 28 23:11 |
neighborlee | Carl_Rover2k12, those days are vastly over..that was during bush policy.. | May 28 23:11 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: btw, M$ is giving their Zune thing another whirl | May 28 23:11 |
neighborlee | Carl_Rover2k12, we hope. | May 28 23:11 |
DaemonFC | which stays at $9 billion for this year | May 28 23:11 |
DaemonFC | but who knows | May 28 23:11 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | neighborlee: oh please read the headlines on recent Telecom Legislation in North Carolina | May 28 23:11 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: yeah, let them knock themselves out :-) | May 28 23:11 |
schestowitz | It's fugly | May 28 23:11 |
neighborlee | Carl_Rover2k12, as noted earlier..obama JUST got in office..he cant fix everything overnight..-= | May 28 23:12 |
DaemonFC | and it requires special software, and only works on Windows | May 28 23:12 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: at least its not sold in special Steve Balmer BS brown | May 28 23:12 |
schestowitz | Zune HD: guaranteed to work 355 days a year, bar DRM | May 28 23:12 |
schestowitz | Takes takes Sabbaticals on December 31st | May 28 23:13 |
schestowitz | For the Microsoft cult... religious break :-) | May 28 23:13 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: only reason its called "HD" is because of the HD radio and not its anemic 480 x 272 resolution | May 28 23:13 |
schestowitz | YouTube is filled with funny Zune video | May 28 23:14 |
schestowitz | They diss it on TV to | May 28 23:14 |
schestowitz | *too | May 28 23:14 |
schestowitz | Not enough MS endorsements for broadcasters perhaps | May 28 23:14 |
schestowitz | One MS guy got arrested in 2007 for advertising Zune | May 28 23:15 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: was that the guy who tatooed Zune on his arm? | May 28 23:18 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: or is it the one with paint shooting out of a guy's bum? | May 28 23:19 |
*schestowitz watches propaganda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xfqkdh5Js4 | May 28 23:21 | |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: no, some due in SXSW | May 28 23:21 |
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Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: its funny how they say that even though the actual developers in most cases are only paid a flat rate for the work they are contracted to do. Then the publishers decides to sell the game at full price for years to come | May 28 23:23 |
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schestowitz | SPA... | May 28 23:24 |
schestowitz | No BSA... | May 28 23:24 |
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schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: yeah. | May 28 23:25 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: not only that but now they want to controll how many machines you can install your game onto even though with few exceptions most games are a product and not a service | May 28 23:25 |
schestowitz | Well, DaemonFC pasted it here | May 28 23:25 |
schestowitz | I wanted to watch it | May 28 23:25 |
schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7jQ1s1BV0&NR=1 | May 28 23:30 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAcIOWTIaQw | May 28 23:50 |
schestowitz | Richard Dawkins vs David Brent (?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae45cUzaoC0&NR=1 | May 28 23:54 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95kX_EP2Nk | May 28 23:59 |
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