oiaohm | It a really large migrain if anything goes wrong. | Jun 01 00:00 |
---|---|---|
oiaohm | Our of all there servers Linux ones give them the least trouble. | Jun 01 00:01 |
_goblin | DaemonFC: The only bastion of salvation (IMO) for a proprietary Windows platform is games and even that market is dwindling to the consoles and piracy (IMO) | Jun 01 00:01 |
DaemonFC | http://www.techspot.com/news/34914-microsoft-and-asus-join-forces-to-smother-linux.html | Jun 01 00:01 |
DaemonFC | why would piracy matter? | Jun 01 00:02 |
oiaohm | Of course DaemonFC | Jun 01 00:02 |
DaemonFC | people still play them on Windows | Jun 01 00:02 |
oiaohm | Asus cannot compete with arm systems. | Jun 01 00:02 |
oiaohm | Piracy matters from the form that you have a large base to store viruses in. | Jun 01 00:03 |
oiaohm | That never will get cleaned up due to updates. | Jun 01 00:03 |
oiaohm | So viruses that should die out remain in existance to hit any freshly installed system. | Jun 01 00:03 |
DaemonFC | scan the installer | Jun 01 00:04 |
oiaohm | Secuirty grounds I hate piracy. | Jun 01 00:04 |
oiaohm | Was the defect I was talking about in the installer. | Jun 01 00:04 |
oiaohm | Freshly installed systems don't have the lasted updates. | Jun 01 00:05 |
oiaohm | So are open to exploits. | Jun 01 00:05 |
oiaohm | Software that is not getting updated provide a home for code that exploits those flaws to live. | Jun 01 00:06 |
_goblin | Sorry, AFK for a second. | Jun 01 00:06 |
_goblin | Why would piracy matter? are you serious? | Jun 01 00:06 |
oiaohm | Secuirty grounds alone it should be outlawed. | Jun 01 00:06 |
_goblin | If it is not profitable for a software house to release a title, it wont release it. | Jun 01 00:07 |
_goblin | at least their investment is a little safer with a console release. | Jun 01 00:07 |
_goblin | PC games are cracked quicker than you get an R5. | Jun 01 00:07 |
_goblin | look at spore | Jun 01 00:07 |
oiaohm | Most pirates don't update there software because they don't want it to stop working due to there crack being overwriten. | Jun 01 00:08 |
oiaohm | So they come a home for malware. | Jun 01 00:08 |
_goblin | true...although Piratebay stats would suggest not many people are worried. | Jun 01 00:08 |
oiaohm | Most people stick there head in sand about problems too. | Jun 01 00:09 |
_goblin | I think there is more fear of the RIAA than of a malware infected crack. | Jun 01 00:09 |
_goblin | and as we've seen the RIAA are pretty impotent aswel. | Jun 01 00:09 |
oiaohm | What is more the issue to me is not the crack infected. | Jun 01 00:09 |
oiaohm | Its worms. | Jun 01 00:09 |
oiaohm | So there systems come part of bot nets. | Jun 01 00:10 |
oiaohm | More often then anyother group. | Jun 01 00:10 |
_goblin | BBC proved how easy it was to control a botnet | Jun 01 00:11 |
_goblin | and (IMO) broke the law in doing so. | Jun 01 00:11 |
oiaohm | Pirate software makes it simpler to build one. | Jun 01 00:11 |
oiaohm | Due to exploits not dieing out when they should. | Jun 01 00:11 |
_goblin | true. | Jun 01 00:11 |
oiaohm | Anyone who things illegal aquired stuff is without it problems is a idiot. | Jun 01 00:12 |
_goblin | DaemonFC has gone quiet.... | Jun 01 00:12 |
oiaohm | things/thinks | Jun 01 00:12 |
oiaohm | There is no defence to this. | Jun 01 00:13 |
_goblin | oiaohm: It made me laugh when so many people rushed out to d/l a "leaked" 7 build | Jun 01 00:13 |
oiaohm | I am not talking about freedom. I am talking about secuirty. Secuirty is black and while with very little grey. | Jun 01 00:13 |
_goblin | blindly installing it onto their machines without a second thought. | Jun 01 00:13 |
oiaohm | Most people are secuirty idiots. | Jun 01 00:13 |
DaemonFC | use an antivirus | Jun 01 00:14 |
_goblin | they do DaemonFC. | Jun 01 00:14 |
DaemonFC | not true | Jun 01 00:15 |
_goblin | that still doesn't seem to secure Windows. | Jun 01 00:15 |
DaemonFC | if there's that many viruses out there, people aren't using an antivirus | Jun 01 00:15 |
oiaohm | Anti-virus engines due to size of database stop scanning for particular exploits when they should be patched DaemonFC. | Jun 01 00:15 |
oiaohm | Without doing that they would have stoped functinign realtime a long time ago. | Jun 01 00:15 |
oiaohm | So use an anti-virus does not save you. | Jun 01 00:15 |
_goblin | and what about exploitable code already present within Windows itself. Shall we mention IE for starters? | Jun 01 00:15 |
DaemonFC | that shouldn't matter | Jun 01 00:15 |
DaemonFC | they still have a heuristics engine | Jun 01 00:16 |
_goblin | be back in a minute....a chore for the wife... | Jun 01 00:16 |
oiaohm | heuristics engines look for signatures of current day exploitable flaws. | Jun 01 00:16 |
DaemonFC | even without pattern files, the heuristics would flag most of it | Jun 01 00:16 |
oiaohm | Not the ones that are gone. | Jun 01 00:16 |
oiaohm | Or should be gone. | Jun 01 00:16 |
oiaohm | If you understond what was in the heuristic engine you would never had said that. | Jun 01 00:17 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Employees and Partners Start Attacking ODF in Public < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/all-the-microsoft-emploshills-join-forces/ > | Jun 01 00:17 |
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oiaohm | Basically you have false faith in anti-virus software DaemonFC. | Jun 01 00:20 |
oiaohm | There is no need to waste cpu time searching for attacks that the OS will kill. | Jun 01 00:21 |
oiaohm | Problem is when OS has not been patched that theory fails. | Jun 01 00:21 |
DaemonFC | so turn on automatic updates | Jun 01 00:22 |
DaemonFC | they've been saying that for 5 years now | Jun 01 00:23 |
oiaohm | They also remove signatures for the heuristics that will not work any more to reduce false positives. | Jun 01 00:24 |
oiaohm | If automatic update breaks you crack on the OS bad luck. | Jun 01 00:25 |
schestowitz | Better with Windows? < http://linuxinexile.blogspot.com/2009/05/better-with-windows.html > Hoax? | Jun 01 00:27 |
_goblin | Who is "they"? Do you mean Microsoft? | Jun 01 00:28 |
_goblin | Before you answer remember that "they" also said people loved Vista. | Jun 01 00:29 |
schestowitz | Why Windows 7 Will Fail on Netbooks < http://www.workswithu.com/2009/05/29/why-windows-7-will-fail-on-netbooks/ > | Jun 01 00:29 |
_goblin | and "they" also likened FOSS to cancer. | Jun 01 00:29 |
schestowitz | Maybe Ballmer thought about BillS Sr. when he said that | Jun 01 00:30 |
_goblin | :) | Jun 01 00:30 |
schestowitz | Only it was FOSS that cured BillG Sr. | Jun 01 00:30 |
_goblin | can Ballmer actually think? | Jun 01 00:30 |
_goblin | or does he communication via chair throwing? | Jun 01 00:30 |
schestowitz | SweatyB uses Linux BTW | Jun 01 00:31 |
schestowitz | Just not on his laptop | Jun 01 00:31 |
_goblin | *comunicate | Jun 01 00:31 |
schestowitz | Everyone uses Linux | Jun 01 00:31 |
_goblin | shame he cant use Lynx aswel. | Jun 01 00:31 |
_goblin | or even just darker shirts | Jun 01 00:31 |
schestowitz | He uses Google | Jun 01 00:33 |
_goblin | what??? Not Bing??? | Jun 01 00:33 |
schestowitz | Bink.nu | Jun 01 00:33 |
schestowitz | MS shill BBTW | Jun 01 00:33 |
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_goblin | hi | Jun 01 00:35 |
_goblin | just seen a link from my favorite shill: | Jun 01 00:36 |
_goblin | www.itsbetterwithwindows.com | Jun 01 00:36 |
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schestowitz | www.itsbetterwithoutwindows.com | Jun 01 00:41 |
schestowitz | Don't feed that site | Jun 01 00:42 |
tacone | nice | Jun 01 00:42 |
_goblin | Its good though since anyone who actually has one of those machines will know the displayed experience of Windows is very different to the reality. | Jun 01 00:43 |
schestowitz | gn | Jun 01 00:43 |
tacone | gn | Jun 01 00:44 |
oiaohm | To be correct open source is a lot like a cancer. Its using closed source as a host to get market share once it has enough market share it will kill hosts. Also most cancer cells are immortal. | Jun 01 00:45 |
oiaohm | So can out live the host many times over. | Jun 01 00:45 |
oiaohm | The worst thing you can do to a insult its take it as a postitive. | Jun 01 00:46 |
_goblin | gn roy | Jun 01 00:46 |
DaemonFC | this wireless keyboard and mouse eat batteries like crazy | Jun 01 00:56 |
*DaemonFC needs to plug the USB ones back in | Jun 01 00:56 | |
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oiaohm | I got a wireless keyboard and mouse for nothing. | Jun 01 01:09 |
oiaohm | Yet I never use it due to short battery live. | Jun 01 01:10 |
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DaemonFC | hmmm, Centennial is pushing some Windows Mobile phones real cheap as upgrades for their old Nokias | Jun 01 01:44 |
DaemonFC | I don't know that I'll stay with them anyway | Jun 01 01:45 |
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oiaohm | There old stock. | Jun 01 02:07 |
oiaohm | I bet. | Jun 01 02:07 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: new verison of windows moblie OS has been released recently. | Jun 01 02:07 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Jun 01 02:08 |
DaemonFC | Blackberries aren't much more expensive anyway | Jun 01 02:08 |
DaemonFC | I might just go with that | Jun 01 02:08 |
oiaohm | Some of it is market reshaping for android. | Jun 01 02:09 |
oiaohm | Stores don't want to get stuck with old stock they cannot sell. | Jun 01 02:09 |
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DaemonFC | I don't know that Android will be bigger than Blackberry | Jun 01 02:12 |
DaemonFC | Blackberry has set the bar pretty high | Jun 01 02:13 |
DaemonFC | anyway, back to what twit was saying about video games | Jun 01 02:14 |
DaemonFC | the game industry is (maybe unintentionally) driving sales of console versions a the expense of PC | Jun 01 02:15 |
DaemonFC | I think they may be DRMing their PC games for just this reason | Jun 01 02:15 |
DaemonFC | they're pushing everyone to console games where you have to buy add ons that are associated with your Live account or whatever | Jun 01 02:16 |
DaemonFC | because you can't resell the extras | Jun 01 02:16 |
DaemonFC | eventually the consoles will just have massive internal storage and you download the whole game | Jun 01 02:16 |
DaemonFC | I think the next version of XBOX and Playstation will be like that | Jun 01 02:17 |
DaemonFC | this round is just getting people used to downloading content | Jun 01 02:18 |
MinceR | eventually consoles will...become PCs! | Jun 01 02:18 |
DaemonFC | not really, Sony ruined Linux on the PS3 | Jun 01 02:18 |
DaemonFC | they crippled it beyond being useful | Jun 01 02:18 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi All! | Jun 01 02:19 |
DaemonFC | it can't access enough RA to use GNOME or KDE at all | Jun 01 02:19 |
DaemonFC | *RAM | Jun 01 02:19 |
_Hicham_ | because this RAM is in your head | Jun 01 02:19 |
DaemonFC | and no access to the video card means no compositing or video games within Linux | Jun 01 02:19 |
_Hicham_ | and ur head is very stubborn | Jun 01 02:20 |
_Hicham_ | so no write access | Jun 01 02:20 |
oiaohm: To be correct open source is a lot like a cancer. Its using closed source as a host to get market share once it has enough market share it will kill hosts. Also most cancer cells are immortal. | Jun 01 02:20 | |
DaemonFC | the PS3 makes a piss poor PC | Jun 01 02:20 |
I prefer the whore/wife analogy | Jun 01 02:20 | |
_Hicham_ | Linux is the the best form of cancer | Jun 01 02:21 |
_Hicham_ | a cancer that purifies the market | Jun 01 02:21 |
non free software is like a whore. All dolled up, cheap and easy. The experience generally is a let down from the promise and you can never trust it. | Jun 01 02:21 | |
DaemonFC | Linux will be useless when all operating systems have to run on top of a hypervisor | Jun 01 02:21 |
DaemonFC | PS3 proves this | Jun 01 02:21 |
DaemonFC | eventually there will be DRM no matter what OS you use | Jun 01 02:21 |
Free software is like a wife. You own it, it owns you and you will know it better than yourself. It never lets you down. | Jun 01 02:21 | |
my hypervisor will be free :-D | Jun 01 02:22 | |
DaemonFC | eventually, the hypservisor could refuse Linux the ability to play movies or copy discs | Jun 01 02:22 |
DaemonFC | no matter what software you use | Jun 01 02:22 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is the hypervisor | Jun 01 02:22 |
not a free one | Jun 01 02:22 | |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | Jun 01 02:22 |
_Hicham_ | he is trying to fight Linux | Jun 01 02:22 |
DaemonFC | EFI will make that very easy | Jun 01 02:22 |
I wonder why | Jun 01 02:22 | |
_Hicham_ | but it is too strong | Jun 01 02:22 |
_Hicham_ | Linux will kick DaemonFC's ass | Jun 01 02:23 |
FC, why are you here? | Jun 01 02:23 | |
_Hicham_ | to praise Vista of course | Jun 01 02:23 |
DaemonFC | I decided to go with BIOS because it's easier to manipulate | Jun 01 02:23 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is an MS employee | Jun 01 02:23 |
There's better money in burger flipping than praising Vista | Jun 01 02:23 | |
_Hicham_ | employed as a troll | Jun 01 02:24 |
probably better job security too | Jun 01 02:24 | |
is that true, FC? | Jun 01 02:24 | |
_Hicham_ | his job is to test games in Vista and wine | Jun 01 02:24 |
_Hicham_ | and give the difference | Jun 01 02:24 |
he sure acts like a paid troll | Jun 01 02:24 | |
_Hicham_ | a low paid troll | Jun 01 02:25 |
_Hicham_ | they just pay his internet connection | Jun 01 02:25 |
DaemonFC | sorry twat, not true | Jun 01 02:25 |
DaemonFC | errr, twit | Jun 01 02:25 |
DaemonFC | either or | Jun 01 02:25 |
if his job were really to test games, he would not have time to troll like this | Jun 01 02:25 | |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 01 02:25 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: homework: look up the meaning of the word "will" | Jun 01 02:25 |
MinceR | good luck. | Jun 01 02:25 |
good will? | Jun 01 02:25 | |
it's not in Word's dictionary | Jun 01 02:25 | |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC have a good will | Jun 01 02:25 |
_Hicham_ | to stay a Vista slave | Jun 01 02:26 |
good will to M$ is ill will to your neighbor | Jun 01 02:26 | |
MinceR | nope, "will" as in referring to the future | Jun 01 02:26 |
_Hicham_ | and the most interesting thing, is that he runs cross platform games in Vista | Jun 01 02:26 |
MinceR | his religion requires it | Jun 01 02:27 |
he just said that was not true | Jun 01 02:27 | |
_Hicham_ | and take the Windows binaries and runs them through wine in Linux | Jun 01 02:27 |
anyone sick enough to run Vista is sick enough to do all sorts of things | Jun 01 02:28 | |
_Hicham_ | he is taking troll classes in the local community college | Jun 01 02:28 |
running games in Wine is not the worst of his crimes | Jun 01 02:28 | |
Dr. Troll | Jun 01 02:28 | |
_Hicham_ | he is a smart troll | Jun 01 02:28 |
not really | Jun 01 02:28 | |
_Hicham_ | too bad that this smartness is wasted in trolling | Jun 01 02:29 |
_Hicham_ | instead of using it in sthg more productive | Jun 01 02:29 |
well, that's true | Jun 01 02:29 | |
MinceR | he's smart? i never noticed. | Jun 01 02:29 |
he could have the IQ of a slug and it would still be true | Jun 01 02:29 | |
_Hicham_ | why is he silent now? | Jun 01 02:29 |
_Hicham_ | where is he now? | Jun 01 02:30 |
you tell me | Jun 01 02:30 | |
_Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC, where are u? | Jun 01 02:30 |
MinceR | perhaps he's busy reinstalling vista | Jun 01 02:30 |
MinceR | or just rebooting | Jun 01 02:30 |
or he's using another nym | Jun 01 02:31 | |
_Hicham_ | he is always contradicting himself | Jun 01 02:31 |
do you suppose Roy would bother to ban IP addresses if someone were to admit they were here simply to disrupt and harass? | Jun 01 02:31 | |
_Hicham_ | no | Jun 01 02:32 |
He has not done as much for comments | Jun 01 02:32 | |
_Hicham_ | he once kicked him | Jun 01 02:32 |
_Hicham_ | but Roy is very open minded | Jun 01 02:32 |
must have come back with another IP address | Jun 01 02:32 | |
_Hicham_ | no | Jun 01 02:32 |
how would you know? | Jun 01 02:32 | |
_Hicham_ | Roy unbanned him | Jun 01 02:32 |
_Hicham_ | Roy told us that | Jun 01 02:32 |
DaemonFC | no, my IP address stays the same for several months usually | Jun 01 02:33 |
I must have missed it | Jun 01 02:33 | |
_Hicham_ | plus Mr DaemonFC is a comcaster | Jun 01 02:33 |
DaemonFC | so? | Jun 01 02:33 |
I don't think Roy is so much open minded as he's willing to let people incriminate themselves. | Jun 01 02:34 | |
DaemonFC | me and about 50 million other people | Jun 01 02:34 |
DaemonFC | that must be a lot of Microsoft employees right? | Jun 01 02:34 |
MinceR | gn | Jun 01 02:34 |
_Hicham_ | true Mr DaemonFC | Jun 01 02:34 |
good night MinceR | Jun 01 02:34 | |
_Hicham_ | what is ur job at MS? | Jun 01 02:34 |
_Hicham_ | gn MinceR | Jun 01 02:34 |
_Hicham_ | come on, Mr DaemonFC | Jun 01 02:34 |
_Hicham_ | tell us what is ur job | Jun 01 02:35 |
He might not work for M$, but one of their proxies instead. | Jun 01 02:35 | |
They won't let him tell. | Jun 01 02:35 | |
_Hicham_ | how much do they pay u? | Jun 01 02:35 |
_Hicham_ | is it just the internet connection? | Jun 01 02:35 |
From the looks of his videos, it's under $20k/year. | Jun 01 02:35 | |
He could do better as a waiter, if he had manners as well as servility. | Jun 01 02:36 | |
The biggest downside to trolling for a PR company has got to be regret for years wasted. | Jun 01 02:38 | |
DaemonFC | hmmm, I've gotten FLAC's compression ratio so far down, it's smaller than a q9 Vorbis file | Jun 01 02:38 |
DaemonFC | but it confuses Winamp's spectrum analyzer | Jun 01 02:39 |
DaemonFC | visualizations still work fine though | Jun 01 02:39 |
so how did you do that? | Jun 01 02:40 | |
DaemonFC | just a matter of using lossywav with FLAC set to a blocksize of 512 bytes and all of FLAC's compression settings enabled and maximized | Jun 01 02:48 |
DaemonFC | encoding is damned slow, but the files are less than half the size of normal FLAC | Jun 01 02:48 |
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DaemonFC | lossywav sets all the lowest significant bits to 0 and tricks FLAC into marking them as wasted bits | Jun 01 02:50 |
DaemonFC | it basically tells FLAC to scrap all the noise and randomness | Jun 01 02:50 |
DaemonFC | so you still basically get CD quality without the humongous files | Jun 01 02:50 |
DaemonFC | lossywav is a pre-processor, so the trick will work on most lossless encoders that support the wasted bits flag | Jun 01 02:51 |
DaemonFC | including Monkey's Audio, WavPack, WMA Lossless, Apple Lossless, and FLAC | Jun 01 02:51 |
DaemonFC | you get slightly better compression with WMA Lossless, but it's not worth the tradeoff in software and hardware support | Jun 01 02:52 |
DaemonFC | FLAC isn't known for having the best compression, but it doesn't use much CPU or RAM to decompress, so more hardware supports it, for now | Jun 01 02:54 |
DaemonFC | by the time you set Monkey's Audio to beat FLAC's compression, it uses so much CPU time to decode that seeking becomes ridiculously slow | Jun 01 02:55 |
DaemonFC | plus I think the only software that supports playing back APE files on Linux is VLC | Jun 01 02:56 |
DaemonFC | due to hostility over a non-Stallman approved free software license | Jun 01 02:56 |
So, you made the Free Lossless Audio Codec into a lossy one? OK. | Jun 01 03:00 | |
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DaemonFC | not really | Jun 01 03:00 |
DaemonFC | it only throws away wasted space | Jun 01 03:01 |
I'm not familiar with lossywav | Jun 01 03:01 | |
DaemonFC | and I didn't make LossyWAV | Jun 01 03:01 |
DaemonFC | but I did make a batch file to automatically convert existing FLAC files to lossyFLAC and retag them | Jun 01 03:02 |
DaemonFC | Seether - Disclaimer II was 564 megs as FLAC and by using LossyWAV and squeezing the FLAC encoder, I got them down to 306 megs | Jun 01 03:03 |
death watch updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707 | Jun 01 03:03 | |
DaemonFC | 258 megs smaller | Jun 01 03:04 |
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DaemonFC | 45.74% smaller than regular FLAC | Jun 01 03:04 |
DaemonFC | not bad at all | Jun 01 03:04 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: you got it wrong. In time high def will be decoded in screen. | Jun 01 03:07 |
oiaohm | So there will be no exposed point to hack. | Jun 01 03:07 |
oiaohm | OS will not be a issue then. | Jun 01 03:08 |
oiaohm | HDMI next version includes 100 mbs network connection for some reason. | Jun 01 03:08 |
DaemonFC | cool | Jun 01 03:14 |
oiaohm | By the way when Linux would most likely be the hypervisor in the motherboard kinda makes that path useless | Jun 01 03:15 |
Gah, this Wouter guy Roy points to is a real moron. | Jun 01 03:16 | |
oiaohm | DRM guys are not what you call asleep. If you cannot trust OS any more you have to trust devices. | Jun 01 03:16 |
on his blog page, he says, " I can't place the 'who file' remark, so let's scrap that one (hey, it was late. I had a DevDays session to present, stuff happens). However, the other things are quite relevant. What can be encrypted? Binaries, XML, everything? How? Per zip entry, folder, or logical structures? What is the general process? Why even encrypt? Can't we encrypt the entire file?" | Jun 01 03:16 | |
His "who file" is probably him misspelling "whole file" | Jun 01 03:17 | |
him or M$ word auto wronging it for him :) | Jun 01 03:17 | |
oiaohm | The linux KVM module by the way can run a hypervisor inside a hypervisor and still memory edit the OS inside the contained hypervisor. | Jun 01 03:19 |
oiaohm | Yep hypervisor as a solution is gone. | Jun 01 03:20 |
DaemonFC | so far I have 115 songs in 7 albums in LossyFLAC | Jun 01 03:20 |
DaemonFC | 1.5 GB | Jun 01 03:20 |
encrypting documents is kind of silly anyway. If someone's work is really sensitive, it's better to use whole drive encryption and sftp when you move it. | Jun 01 03:20 | |
big time troll dude, this M$ TE | Jun 01 03:20 | |
oiaohm | Personally I prefer ogg I find lossywav creates sharp sounds in some forms of audio. | Jun 01 03:21 |
DaemonFC | you can set it to be more or less agressive than it defaults to | Jun 01 03:22 |
oiaohm | I play a lot of electronic music. Lot of that don't take nicely to even lossywav on min. | Jun 01 03:22 |
oiaohm | Yet encodes with ogg fine. | Jun 01 03:23 |
oiaohm | You will find some styles will be effected by what you are doing DaemonFC. | Jun 01 03:24 |
DaemonFC | sounds exactly the same to me | Jun 01 03:24 |
DaemonFC | Vorbis distorts things like drums if you go below q10 | Jun 01 03:26 |
DaemonFC | and MP3 fucks everything up at any bitrate | Jun 01 03:26 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure that MP3 and Vorbis would be competitive if MP3 could go about 320k | Jun 01 03:26 |
DaemonFC | *above | Jun 01 03:26 |
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DaemonFC | well you can go above 320k with certain encoders | Jun 01 03:27 |
DaemonFC | but certain decoders have trouble with the file then | Jun 01 03:27 |
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DaemonFC | HE-AAC is really what you want to use for low bitrate streaming | Jun 01 03:28 |
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DaemonFC | MP3 Pro was interesting, but never went anywhere | Jun 01 03:29 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Canonical wants to stray its distro soo far from the rest its not even funny anymore: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/canonical-developers-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars | Jun 01 03:30 |
DaemonFC | that doesn't seem so far fetched | Jun 01 03:31 |
DaemonFC | it would just be a subsystem like the 32-bit backwards compatibility libraries | Jun 01 03:31 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: or Java | Jun 01 03:31 |
DaemonFC | you could probably even uninstall it with no impact on the system other than losing Android compatibility | Jun 01 03:31 |
DaemonFC | so I don't have a problem with that | Jun 01 03:31 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: but it spreads the misnomer that Android is open source | Jun 01 03:32 |
tacone | too far from the rest ? they're simply competing with android on netbooks | Jun 01 03:32 |
tacone | otherwise they will get eaten (and swollen) | Jun 01 03:32 |
DaemonFC | well, I don't see what the problem is | Jun 01 03:32 |
DaemonFC | nobody raises hell over them offering Wine | Jun 01 03:32 |
DaemonFC | so why can't they have an Android subsystem | Jun 01 03:33 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | tacone: well Android still has its limits in many regards, but I suppose it being a Google creation and all will attract manufacturers and users alike | Jun 01 03:33 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonFC: WINE is a full open source transcoding app for re-interpreting Win32 libraries | Jun 01 03:34 |
tacone | Carl_Rover2k12: the thing nobody talks about | Jun 01 03:34 |
tacone | it's that canonical is working on the reverse also. | Jun 01 03:34 |
tacone | making ubuntu run on top of android kernel. | Jun 01 03:34 |
tacone | that's a even bigger deal. | Jun 01 03:34 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | tacone: true | Jun 01 03:34 |
DaemonFC | so? that would be a specialized port | Jun 01 03:34 |
DaemonFC | not something you'd run on a PC | Jun 01 03:35 |
tacone | that would bring support for many arm architecture that ubuntu arm doesn't support | Jun 01 03:35 |
tacone | DaemonFC: yes, not something you would run on your PC | Jun 01 03:35 |
oiaohm | You did not get it. tacone | Jun 01 03:36 |
oiaohm | Difference between android kernel and standard linux kernel is only a specal form of IPC support. | Jun 01 03:37 |
oiaohm | No difference in hardware support realy. | Jun 01 03:37 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: which may lead to further inconsistencies between Ubuntu and other distros | Jun 01 03:38 |
tacone | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/specs/KernelKarmicAndroid | Jun 01 03:38 |
oiaohm | Not really Carl_Rover2k12 | Jun 01 03:38 |
tacone | "The Android kernel supports platforms that the Ubuntu kernel does not. Android runs on Qualcomm Snapdragon/8xxx, TI OMAP3, Freescale Babbage and Marvell PXA3xx. " | Jun 01 03:38 |
oiaohm | Thinking the special form of IPC support is current for include with standard linux kernel Carl_Rover2k12 | Jun 01 03:39 |
oiaohm | tacone: ubuntu did not build there kernel for that. | Jun 01 03:39 |
oiaohm | Not that the the mainline kernel cannot be built for that. | Jun 01 03:39 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | tacone: I guess I can see why they want the support: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ARMBeijingSeminar2009Report | Jun 01 03:40 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | tacone: their PR for netbooks took a real beating | Jun 01 03:41 |
tacone | yes that's why | Jun 01 03:41 |
oiaohm | The google IPC support is currently in the mainline staging tree. | Jun 01 03:41 |
oiaohm | Android applications could end up universal for all Linux distributions. | Jun 01 03:42 |
tacone | let's see | Jun 01 03:44 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but then thats like saying all apps should have been done in Java or some other programming language wrapped in a mini virtual machine like API | Jun 01 03:45 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | subset | Jun 01 03:45 |
tacone | right. let's do everything in mono instead. | Jun 01 03:46 |
oiaohm | Linux has to get a Universal application support of some form. | Jun 01 03:46 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | tacone: it takes all kinds of strokes to make a rainbow | Jun 01 03:46 |
oiaohm | At least with android common everywhere it will put more presure on distributions not to keep incompadiblity for incompadiblity sake. | Jun 01 03:47 |
tacone | so ? | Jun 01 03:47 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: it has had it for a long time with Java, Python, Ruby, hell even HTML/CSS | Jun 01 03:47 |
oiaohm | google is java but the IPC thing makes if faster. | Jun 01 03:47 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: sure they won't they will just rely on Adroid for interpolarity | Jun 01 03:47 |
tacone | pft. everyone loves incompability | Jun 01 03:47 |
tacone | uninteroperability | Jun 01 03:48 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | tacone: lol, maybe standard library vowels and sudo commands should be done away with | Jun 01 03:48 |
oiaohm | Android include a common install system and uninstall system those others you listed don't have Carl_Rover2k12. | Jun 01 03:48 |
oiaohm | It will put presure where it is required basically. | Jun 01 03:49 |
tacone | uh, ubuntu newsletter linked me for the first time | Jun 01 03:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: true, but being a virtual OS within itself its like telling all Mac OSX users they just should rely on Windows in Bootcamp for all their software needs | Jun 01 03:49 |
tacone | i know the key for success. write crap. everybody loves crap | Jun 01 03:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: its not as if X11 has done anything to provide a standard programming environment | Jun 01 03:49 |
oiaohm | small steps Carl_Rover2k12. | Jun 01 03:50 |
oiaohm | X11 it self is quite standard. | Jun 01 03:50 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: exactly | Jun 01 03:50 |
oiaohm | Its combination of parts around it where you start pulling hair. | Jun 01 03:50 |
oiaohm | Its mostly distribution created mess. | Jun 01 03:51 |
oiaohm | DRI2 allowing more than 1 X11 server to run also will allow distribution inside distribution. | Jun 01 03:52 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: so what better way to standardize it then rely on a virtual machine of an API subset which can constitute an OS in its own right that was developed and will continue to be supported by a monolithic company to support all standardized Linux needs | Jun 01 03:52 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: why should Linux require community driven help on the GPL model anything | Jun 01 03:52 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | anymore I meanty | Jun 01 03:52 |
oiaohm | Its more having the motivation. | Jun 01 03:53 |
oiaohm | Android is not closed source by the way. | Jun 01 03:53 |
tacone | android is Stracciatella Source | Jun 01 03:53 |
tacone | Open vanilla with little brown binary blobs scattered around :) | Jun 01 03:53 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: yes Android is the big cheese :P | Jun 01 03:54 |
oiaohm | Google has done exactly what is need. Its basically impossible to port normal programs into Android. | Jun 01 03:54 |
oiaohm | But it will show that there is binary compadiblity between distributions. | Jun 01 03:54 |
oiaohm | So forcing other distributions to get there act in order and sort out the problems. | Jun 01 03:55 |
oiaohm | Lack of competing forces causes problems. Open source gets to disreguard commerical a lot. | Jun 01 03:55 |
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oiaohm | Sometimes you need that 1 item to shock the crap out of everything so problems get fixed Carl_Rover2k12. | Jun 01 03:56 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I just hope those who are know they should be shocked | Jun 01 03:57 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: or will they just lay down their arms and surrender or say mission accomplished | Jun 01 03:57 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: an extra library ensuring compatibility between Android and Linux apps would be great. So long as one, namely Android, doesn't completely eclipse the other languages and subsets on the other. | Jun 01 03:58 |
oiaohm | It wil not be google fault if that happpens. | Jun 01 03:59 |
oiaohm | It will be distributions fault for not stepping up. | Jun 01 03:59 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: I suppose you are right, but the folks with Google won't do anything to discourage either | Jun 01 04:00 |
you two are silly, people will be happy to port and write things to Android the same way they did to iPhone. | Jun 01 04:00 | |
the user will be oblivious | Jun 01 04:00 | |
developers will have an easier time with it than people who write to iPhone | Jun 01 04:00 | |
oiaohm | Android will not just stop at phone twitter. You could have an android desktop one day. | Jun 01 04:01 |
same story | Jun 01 04:01 | |
so what? | Jun 01 04:01 | |
oiaohm | If we want competition other distributions will now have to step up and get cross distribution compadiblity so it works. | Jun 01 04:02 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: but comparing writing iPhone apps within OSX is not quite the same in a interoperability as well as interaction since technically the iPhone's OS is a scaled down desktop OSX, which in tern had its roots in Apple's Mac OS server | Jun 01 04:02 |
people like me will just put debian on it | Jun 01 04:02 | |
everyone gets what they want | Jun 01 04:02 | |
you don't really think it will be hard to compile things for Android, do you Carl? | Jun 01 04:03 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: except for the flavor of having an OS with a healthy ecosystem to design different kinds of apps, namely 3D ones | Jun 01 04:03 |
? | Jun 01 04:03 | |
oiaohm | Other than everything that runs on windows mac and X11 don't work twitter | Jun 01 04:03 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: quite the opposite, people may find it easier to just rely on the Android library to ensure their apps are compatible with every distro | Jun 01 04:03 |
oiaohm | Including standard java programs twitter. | Jun 01 04:03 |
oiaohm | Google basically broke every form of compadibly there was in 1 hit. | Jun 01 04:04 |
there are plenty of examples of healthy non windows, mac and X11 platforms | Jun 01 04:04 | |
I'm not sure if iPhone even uses X, though it should | Jun 01 04:04 | |
so what's the big deal? | Jun 01 04:05 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: its a scaled down version of the Cocoa API | Jun 01 04:05 |
oiaohm | Nothing better to make developers wake up to compadiblty problems then lock them out. | Jun 01 04:05 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | actually scratch scaled down, it is Cocoa | Jun 01 04:05 |
So, if people are willing to write for Cocoa, they will write for Android | Jun 01 04:06 | |
oiaohm | I class what google did with android as something we need to happen. | Jun 01 04:06 |
people who care about freedom will just wipe it and put free software on it | Jun 01 04:06 | |
oiaohm | Cocoa does not work on Android | Jun 01 04:06 |
who cares? | Jun 01 04:06 | |
oiaohm | Developrs twitter. | Jun 01 04:06 |
You two are all doom and gloom. | Jun 01 04:06 | |
oiaohm | Because they cannot recycle there work simply. | Jun 01 04:07 |
oiaohm | Google basically went out of there way to make sure they could not. | Jun 01 04:07 |
What's to keep Android devices from running Debian? | Jun 01 04:07 | |
That would be the right way to recycle work | Jun 01 04:07 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: because Android is so much easier to create and install apps for | Jun 01 04:08 |
oiaohm | Some can be firmware locked twitter. | Jun 01 04:08 |
then developers will be happy, except for the firmware locks | Jun 01 04:08 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: also this is not about Android vs other distros. This is about an Android library vs other libraries and programming languages | Jun 01 04:08 |
you two can't have it both ways | Jun 01 04:08 | |
oiaohm | I see android as something that need to happen twitter. | Jun 01 04:08 |
If this were a M$ thing, you would praise it as "innovative" | Jun 01 04:08 | |
oiaohm | No | Jun 01 04:09 |
because it's Google, you say "Linux sucks" | Jun 01 04:09 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: it wouldn't happen if it were an "M$ thing" | Jun 01 04:09 |
oiaohm | MS has not innovated very much. | Jun 01 04:09 |
yeah, M$ can't make anything happen these days | Jun 01 04:09 | |
oiaohm | I see this as the presue Linux distributions have required to come to the table and truly talk standards. | Jun 01 04:10 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: not only that but M$ has basically no repatua with the open source community | Jun 01 04:10 |
oiaohm | Instead of just thinking about protecting there own markets. | Jun 01 04:10 |
oiaohm | Basically showing them with the right results there market could be taken away from them over night. | Jun 01 04:11 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: this should also be a rallying call to build up Python and Rubby to a healthy and robust language | Jun 01 04:11 |
oiaohm | Google is sending resources into Python. | Jun 01 04:12 |
you two are loopy | Jun 01 04:13 | |
oiaohm | If google did want to destroy everything they would not be doing that. | Jun 01 04:13 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: but thats only for their host side apps | Jun 01 04:13 |
the best standard is freedom and distributions protect it with diversity | Jun 01 04:13 | |
oiaohm | Define freedom. | Jun 01 04:13 |
anyone can play with free software, which is why there's such a commercial outpouring | Jun 01 04:13 | |
GPL | Jun 01 04:13 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: Google doesn't follow the GPL | Jun 01 04:14 |
why should I rewrite the 4 freedoms, look them up yourself | Jun 01 04:14 | |
oiaohm | If you call freedom locked away from accessing the lastest versions of applications becuase they are not build for your distribution freedom. | Jun 01 04:14 |
you have the freedom to the the latest and greatest, no one is stopping you | Jun 01 04:14 | |
oiaohm | Caused by artifical interference by distributions | Jun 01 04:15 |
your talk of "standards" only applies to non free software | Jun 01 04:15 | |
crazy, ohm | Jun 01 04:15 | |
oiaohm | Wine is a major head ache to build as a cross distribution binary for distributions by the way twitter. | Jun 01 04:15 |
you call making free software together "interference" | Jun 01 04:16 | |
oiaohm | It no just closed source effected by that twitter. | Jun 01 04:16 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: not everything in Android is free, and there is no freedom if one entity has sway over catalogs of applications | Jun 01 04:16 |
oiaohm | If you read GPL twitter you will find you are not allowed to alter programs without clearly marking it as such. | Jun 01 04:16 |
there will be no freedom for cell phones as long as spectrum is not free | Jun 01 04:16 | |
oiaohm | Lot of distributions break that twitter. | Jun 01 04:16 |
oiaohm | So making debuging by open source project massivally harder. | Jun 01 04:17 |
oiaohm | This is what I call interference twitter. | Jun 01 04:17 |
oiaohm | It is illegal interference by distributions. | Jun 01 04:18 |
lies | Jun 01 04:18 | |
oiaohm | So ubuntu packaging wine 1.1.12 up with backported patches. marked as 1.1.12 wine --version return such. Did not happen leading to over 2000 invaid bug reports. | Jun 01 04:19 |
oiaohm | I could list a whole stack of distributions gulity of it. | Jun 01 04:20 |
oiaohm | Mozilla sueing debian over the same thing twitter | Jun 01 04:20 |
lol | Jun 01 04:20 | |
lies | Jun 01 04:20 | |
oiaohm | There are some major problems in the open source world. | Jun 01 04:20 |
oiaohm | Not lies. I wish there were. | Jun 01 04:21 |
Aondo | what in android is not free oiaohm ? i thought it all were | Jun 01 04:21 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Aondo: for one thing the entire API is based on an implementation of Java | Jun 01 04:21 |
Aondo | ah sry it was Carl_Rover2k12 :P | Jun 01 04:22 |
oiaohm | Aondo: open source and being compadible are two different things. | Jun 01 04:22 |
oiaohm | I am not talking about it not being free. I am talking about the compadiblity issue for developers. | Jun 01 04:22 |
oiaohm | Of course users might not notice. | Jun 01 04:23 |
Aondo | Carl_Rover2k12 and that implementation is not free? | Jun 01 04:24 |
oiaohm | Implementation is free. | Jun 01 04:24 |
oiaohm | Its just incompadible with basically everything else Aondo. | Jun 01 04:24 |
Aondo | everything else.. what? | Jun 01 04:25 |
Aondo | not sure i understand hehe | Jun 01 04:26 |
oiaohm | Normal java binarys that will work cross platform with windows linux mac and other phone platforms will not run at all in android. | Jun 01 04:26 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Aondo: its free to an extent of the license which Oracle now presides over or any elements which Google added such as the IPC, it is certainly not open source to the extent that the GNU specifies | Jun 01 04:27 |
non free binaries, ohm? | Jun 01 04:27 | |
oiaohm | The IPC is open source Carl_Rover2k12 | Jun 01 04:27 |
so sad | Jun 01 04:27 | |
too bad | Jun 01 04:27 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: it is? I thought Google was holding onto that | Jun 01 04:27 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: when did this become a competition, give and learn dammit :P | Jun 01 04:27 |
freedom is freedom | Jun 01 04:28 | |
oiaohm | Source code of the IPC is in the Linux main kernel staging tree I said that before Carl_Rover2k12 | Jun 01 04:28 |
I'm not worried about non free software | Jun 01 04:28 | |
oiaohm | Google is not stupid. Having the IPC not in the main line would mean having to maintain it in sync with the Linux kernel all the time. | Jun 01 04:29 |
oiaohm | What eats up resources quite badly. | Jun 01 04:29 |
oiaohm | Only issue with andriod is ammout of control firmware could provide and incompadiblities. | Jun 01 04:30 |
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Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: freedom is only what you can make of it against others | Jun 01 04:31 |
? | Jun 01 04:32 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: listen and learn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWiBt-pqp0E | Jun 01 04:32 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: if I could have found it on Liveleaks I would have linked it | Jun 01 04:32 |
oiaohm | Google has not done what MS did. Ie keeping stuff secret. | Jun 01 04:32 |
I can't watch liveleaks, thanks | Jun 01 04:32 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: you're intimidated by personally agreeing to TOSs? | Jun 01 04:33 |
oiaohm | Becides google was smart they put the IPC the one place Orcale cannot attack. In the Linux kernel. | Jun 01 04:34 |
I don't have flash, Carl. | Jun 01 04:34 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | oiaohm: it also helps make it more efficient | Jun 01 04:34 |
and I don't like ToS that suck. | Jun 01 04:34 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: not all are bad, some even protect you in case if anyone comes between you and the service you are using | Jun 01 04:36 |
that's why I read them | Jun 01 04:38 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | twitter: seriously, that is good for you then | Jun 01 04:38 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | anyway I'm off, thankyou all for the edumacational experience | Jun 01 04:41 |
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oiaohm | There is no such thing as freedom only the illusion of freedom. | Jun 01 04:42 |
violations of freedom are real and they take a lot of effort | Jun 01 04:43 | |
oiaohm | Let say you gave a everyone the absolute freedom to do anything. Nothing stops them from making you the next person dead. Since they have absolute freedom to do whatever they choose. | Jun 01 05:00 |
oiaohm | No one really want to live in a world with absolute freedom twitter. | Jun 01 05:01 |
you can make the world better then, by surrendering your freedom to me | Jun 01 05:01 | |
oiaohm | Most people truly want to live in a world of respect. Where you respect the other person life and they respect yours. | Jun 01 05:02 |
please send me a large portion of your earnings if you wish to continue to post here | Jun 01 05:02 | |
oiaohm | You are talking about respect not freedom. People respect each others right to have money. | Jun 01 05:02 |
I refuse to work for you without adequate rewared | Jun 01 05:02 | |
oiaohm | Without respect there is nothing stoping you from torturing people if they don't work. | Jun 01 05:03 |
oiaohm | Dictators have absolute freedom to do what ever they like in most cases twitter. | Jun 01 05:03 |
oiaohm | Human + absolute freedom is a really bad thing. | Jun 01 05:04 |
freedom to take freedom is not a freedom or a right, ohm. | Jun 01 05:07 | |
you are silly | Jun 01 05:07 | |
oiaohm | A person with absolute freedom has no rules they have to follow twitter. | Jun 01 05:08 |
oiaohm | None. | Jun 01 05:08 |
oiaohm | this includes caring about someones life. | Jun 01 05:08 |
oiaohm | Respect of others is why we care about someone elses life. | Jun 01 05:09 |
oiaohm | You idea that freedom is one thing is wrong. The absolute form of freedom leads to harm. | Jun 01 05:10 |
quit putting words into my mouth, ohm | Jun 01 05:25 | |
and pay up | Jun 01 05:25 | |
arm laptops on the way http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165820/inventec_ready_to_ship_snapdragon_laptop_in_q4.html | Jun 01 05:33 | |
some pictures, light on details http://www.inventec.com/english/product_a01.htm | Jun 01 05:35 | |
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fewa | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/google-dailymotion-endorse-html-5-and-standards-based-video.ars | Jun 01 05:40 |
fewa | twitter, where are the armies? ive been waiting but havnt seen yet | Jun 01 05:41 |
fewa | battery life + cool ive been waiting for | Jun 01 05:41 |
DaemonFC | http://www.bringdownie6.com/ | Jun 01 05:41 |
fewa | http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28817 | Jun 01 05:48 |
DaemonFC | I've played around with the branch predictor in FLAC some more | Jun 01 05:49 |
Six hours, it's almost a PPC mac. | Jun 01 05:49 | |
DaemonFC | I'm now averaging a 55% size reduction vs FLAC | Jun 01 05:49 |
DaemonFC | and about 4-5 times smaller than WAV | Jun 01 05:50 |
DaemonFC | it really kills the encoder performance though | Jun 01 05:50 |
DaemonFC | it takes about twice as long as normal FLAC to encode | Jun 01 05:50 |
DaemonFC | the good part is that it takes the same resources to decode | Jun 01 05:51 |
DaemonFC | so portables can still handle it | Jun 01 05:51 |
why don't you just use ogg? 200 MHz ARM was able to deal with that seven years ago | Jun 01 05:53 | |
DaemonFC | cause Ogg isn't as good of quality | Jun 01 05:55 |
if you say so | Jun 01 05:56 | |
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DaemonFC | it's not | Jun 01 05:57 |
DaemonFC | frankly Vorbis sucks if you're going for quality | Jun 01 05:57 |
DaemonFC | all lossy codecs do | Jun 01 05:57 |
DaemonFC | all lossyWAV does it throw away noise, it doesn't mutilate the actual music | Jun 01 05:58 |
DaemonFC | nobody could tell you the difference between a FLAC made from LossyWAV and a normal FLAC file | Jun 01 05:58 |
DaemonFC | without busting out a wave spectrum analyzer | Jun 01 05:59 |
DaemonFC | high bitrate Vorbis not only spits out larger files, they stick out like a sore thumb | Jun 01 05:59 |
DaemonFC | most of the time, by the time you hit q9 or 10 Vorbis, the file is larger than a lossyFLAC and doesn't sound as good | Jun 01 06:00 |
DaemonFC | basically with LossyFLAC, I get to store twice as many of them on a portable, which is why it interests me | Jun 01 06:01 |
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DaemonFC | Vorbis stating that it sounds better than a codec that predates it by over 10 years is like winning the worlds tallest midget contest | Jun 01 06:02 |
DaemonFC | if file size is the only thing that matters to you, you can get better quality out of HE-AAC | Jun 01 06:03 |
DaemonFC | Vorbis stating that it has more features than MP3 would be like marketing Linux by comparing it to Windows 3.1 | Jun 01 06:04 |
DaemonFC | a stiff breeze could knock MP3 over at this point | Jun 01 06:05 |
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DaemonFC | the Xiph.org people made a passable codec, but what they really need to focus on it a high efficiency low bitrate streaming version of Vorbis | Jun 01 06:06 |
DaemonFC | because HE-AAC can sound better than 64k Vorbis with a 48k stream | Jun 01 06:06 |
DaemonFC | which translates into lower bandwidth bills | Jun 01 06:06 |
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Others have said that Vorbis has better sound quality than mp3 per byte. They have reasonable studies to back their conclusions. | Jun 01 06:31 | |
The analogy of GNU/Linux to cancer does not work in a world with Google, Wikipedia and others. | Jun 01 06:31 | |
fewa | yep | Jun 01 06:32 |
fewa | its a loosing battle and they know | Jun 01 06:32 |
fewa | it | Jun 01 06:32 |
DaemonFC | yeah, but AAC is better than MP3 | Jun 01 06:33 |
DaemonFC | and better than Vorbis at really low bitrates with HE-AAC | Jun 01 06:33 |
The spread of software freedom has created these "tumors" which are fatal to the non free software body, but are a great benefit to the economy as a whole, the body which non free software is supposed to serve. | Jun 01 06:33 | |
fewa | their last fight is the frizt chip, getting the government to mandate a microsoft monopoly | Jun 01 06:33 |
fewa | and they will continue to pay off OEMs governments, etc to try to have a large mind share | Jun 01 06:34 |
If anything, free software is more like a stem cell, which rejuvenates ailing institutions. | Jun 01 06:34 | |
Non free software is more like a cancer, a mutation caused by greed to what was once a free software world. | Jun 01 06:35 | |
DaemonFC | UNIX was the worlds first fully portable computer virus | Jun 01 06:35 |
DaemonFC | and X was the first fully modular one | Jun 01 06:35 |
People were seduced by the notion of "owners" maintaining code that freedom would not provide. | Jun 01 06:36 | |
DaemonFC | it's only now that they're turning X into a modern windowing system | Jun 01 06:36 |
It's clear that freedom has provided much better code. | Jun 01 06:36 | |
DaemonFC | and prying most of it out of running as root | Jun 01 06:36 |
DaemonFC | it's like rebuilding a 25 year old car a piece at a time | Jun 01 06:37 |
Non free software is dying. Like any tumor, it leaves a few holes and scars as the body breaks down and pisses it out. | Jun 01 06:37 | |
But the body is happy to be rid of it. | Jun 01 06:38 | |
DaemonFC | it's not dying, Windows is now on 94% of netbooks | Jun 01 06:38 |
DaemonFC | after 2 years | Jun 01 06:38 |
DaemonFC | where Linux started out on nearly every one of them | Jun 01 06:39 |
Non free software is like a horse and buggy, dressed up to look like a rocket ship. | Jun 01 06:39 | |
DaemonFC | well, the free market spoke and the Windows machines were selling | Jun 01 06:39 |
DaemonFC | why do Communistas always ignore the obvious? | Jun 01 06:39 |
the market is speaking http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707 | Jun 01 06:39 | |
DaemonFC | you're arguing for a planned economy and a loss of choice | Jun 01 06:39 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 06:40 |
DaemonFC | shoving freedom down everyones throats, yes? | Jun 01 06:40 |
DaemonFC | whether they want it or not | Jun 01 06:40 |
I argue for freedom and people are choosing it. | Jun 01 06:40 | |
DaemonFC | to where they have no choice but Linux? | Jun 01 06:40 |
M$ manipulation of OEMs shows where the real force has been. | Jun 01 06:40 | |
DaemonFC | sounds like you just want to force everyone to using what you want | Jun 01 06:40 |
http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/221041 | Jun 01 06:41 | |
DaemonFC | there's not one thing that stops anyone from choosing Linux | Jun 01 06:41 |
DaemonFC | if they don't it's an evil master plan | Jun 01 06:41 |
read the above link | Jun 01 06:41 | |
DaemonFC | right? :P | Jun 01 06:41 |
Well, M$'s emails make them look organized. Looks great on paper! Fails in reality. | Jun 01 06:41 | |
DaemonFC | no, I want you to tell me why I can't buy a Linux system | Jun 01 06:42 |
The world has a way of slinking around force. | Jun 01 06:42 | |
DaemonFC | why I can't go to System76 or Dell and just buy one | Jun 01 06:42 |
DaemonFC | right now | Jun 01 06:42 |
DaemonFC | is it cause Steve Ballmer is going to stop me? | Jun 01 06:42 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 01 06:42 |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 01 06:42 |
Well, if you look what they did to your former employer in the link above, you will see the lengths they went to | Jun 01 06:42 | |
but you don't read much do you? | Jun 01 06:43 | |
DaemonFC | why would I want to read something by twithead? | Jun 01 06:43 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 06:43 |
It's M$ email, not my writing. | Jun 01 06:43 | |
you might learn something from reading it | Jun 01 06:43 | |
DaemonFC | twitter: They still sell Linux PCs sometimes | Jun 01 06:45 |
Ballmer works very hard to make sure Dell does not offer a better deal than a computer with Windows. | Jun 01 06:45 | |
DaemonFC | when the system is basically stripped bare | Jun 01 06:45 |
DaemonFC | and sold to be cheap | Jun 01 06:45 |
It's the same trick they played on OS/2 - make the competition look expensive compared to one with Windows. | Jun 01 06:45 | |
DaemonFC | Walmart sold the Everex gPC as a holiday special just several months ago | Jun 01 06:46 |
DaemonFC | that's over 2 years past your so called internal email | Jun 01 06:46 |
DaemonFC | it shipped with Linux | Jun 01 06:46 |
They are finally losing the battle because Dell and other retailers are going out of business. That does not disprove what they planed and recored in their email. | Jun 01 06:46 | |
DaemonFC | Everex is going broke because of returns and poor sales | Jun 01 06:46 |
DaemonFC | not because of a Cabal | Jun 01 06:46 |
In other words, their failure is not for lack of trying. | Jun 01 06:46 | |
M$ is going broke because they wasted their resources on DRM and anti-competitive schemes. | Jun 01 06:47 | |
DaemonFC | almost every PC maker that sells Linux slaps it on cheap low end systems where the $50 for Windows would up the price significantly | Jun 01 06:47 |
Good riddance | Jun 01 06:47 | |
DaemonFC | Linux is not a selling point | Jun 01 06:47 |
DaemonFC | it's there cause it's free | Jun 01 06:47 |
not to you it isn't | Jun 01 06:47 | |
don't project | Jun 01 06:48 | |
DaemonFC | they even warn that Linux won't run your applications | Jun 01 06:48 |
DaemonFC | which is true | Jun 01 06:48 |
GNU/Linux was the most popular Dell Idea storm. | Jun 01 06:48 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, mostly due to sockpuppets | Jun 01 06:48 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure you voted a few thousand times | Jun 01 06:48 |
Dell did not go with it. Now they suffer drastic losses | Jun 01 06:48 | |
DaemonFC | Dell sells Linux systems | Jun 01 06:48 |
DaemonFC | they did go with it | Jun 01 06:49 |
always accuse others of what you do, eh FC? | Jun 01 06:49 | |
DaemonFC | no reason not to, if it ups their sales 1% and costs them nothing | Jun 01 06:49 |
DaemonFC | it also is a bargaining chips against Microsoft | Jun 01 06:49 |
M$ has bigger hammers | Jun 01 06:49 | |
they can disable every Dell on the market with the next Windoze update | Jun 01 06:49 | |
DaemonFC | I'd throw some free copies of Linux on some systems if it upped my sales 1% | Jun 01 06:49 |
Dell has been very happy with their GNU/Linux sales. | Jun 01 06:50 | |
DaemonFC | no they can't | Jun 01 06:50 |
That won't keep M$ from hammering them | Jun 01 06:50 | |
DaemonFC | they'd be sued | Jun 01 06:50 |
DaemonFC | the jury would award damages to the plantiffs | Jun 01 06:50 |
They have been sued, again and again and they have lost as often. | Jun 01 06:50 | |
DaemonFC | they'd never just shut all of them down for spire | Jun 01 06:50 |
DaemonFC | *spite | Jun 01 06:50 |
M$ does a lot of ugly things for spite, don't they FC? | Jun 01 06:51 | |
DaemonFC | they wouldn't shut down all Dells | Jun 01 06:51 |
DaemonFC | you're paranoid/delusional | Jun 01 06:52 |
why not a significant fraction? | Jun 01 06:52 | |
Like what they did to Intel's GPUs? | Jun 01 06:52 | |
Intel lost billions of dollars on their graphics line thanks to M$. | Jun 01 06:52 | |
Punishment for working with free software. | Jun 01 06:53 | |
DaemonFC | Microsoft can't shut down millions of Dells | Jun 01 06:53 |
DaemonFC | they simply cannot | Jun 01 06:53 |
DaemonFC | period | Jun 01 06:53 |
you don't think they could sabotage a driver? | Jun 01 06:53 | |
like ship an old broken one instead of one that works with an update? | Jun 01 06:53 | |
DaemonFC | it would spark a huge class action lawsuit, it would irrepairably damage Microsoft's customer relations | Jun 01 06:53 |
DaemonFC | they would never do that | Jun 01 06:53 |
I seem to remember you complaining about just this | Jun 01 06:54 | |
never on purpose | Jun 01 06:54 | |
never just to punish or threaten | Jun 01 06:54 | |
it's all just convenient coincidence, right? | Jun 01 06:54 | |
Like DRDOS. | Jun 01 06:54 | |
DaemonFC | they would not do it | Jun 01 06:54 |
DaemonFC | the fallout would destroy them | Jun 01 06:54 |
It's not like they planed it in advance and then paid people to lie on BBS, was it? | Jun 01 06:55 | |
No, they burned the court records, so it must be some kind of paranoid delusion. Even after they lost and paid the fines. | Jun 01 06:55 | |
It's not like the above link does not basically brag about how the GNU/Linux vendor is afraid of M$ retaliation. | Jun 01 06:56 | |
Noted as a motivation of the party involved and something to work with to get their desired result. | Jun 01 06:56 | |
The fall out has destroyed them, FC. The world is moving on without them now. | Jun 01 06:57 | |
As their software assurance plans run out, M$'s earnings will crater. They are imploding and won't last another 12 months. | Jun 01 06:58 | |
DaemonFC | in an alternate reality? | Jun 01 06:58 |
just watch :) | Jun 01 06:58 | |
schestowitz | Mozilla Jetpack Could Speed Firefox Add-on Efforts < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3822741/Mozilla+Jetpack+Could+Speed+Firefox+Addon+Efforts.htm > | Jun 01 07:17 |
schestowitz | http://www.zareason.com/shop/product.php?productid=16204&cat=0&page=1 | Jun 01 07:17 |
schestowitz | "Yes, in true Microsoft fashion, the maps used are provided by Microsoft and there are ties to other Microsoft products. At first blush, however, this doesn't appear to be heavy-handed. It's certainly no different from how Google prefers its own services to those of competitors." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10251152-16.html | Jun 01 07:18 |
schestowitz | "Obama's Supreme Court Nominee Knows Stuff About Computers" http://gizmodo.com/5271318/obamas-supreme-court-nominee-knows-stuff-about-computers Knows "STUFF"... now what does that mean? | Jun 01 07:19 |
schestowitz | " [PJ: I'd like to replace comments on Groklaw with it, and we could do our group work with it. News Picks would be so much more fun with Google Wave.] - Tom Krazit, CNET " | Jun 01 07:22 |
schestowitz | http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/29/googles-top-policy-exec-to-join-obama-administration/ Google’s Top Policy Executive to Join Obama Administration. But shouldn't these be separate from companies? | Jun 01 07:29 |
schestowitz | "To use Bing is to see the Internet through Microsoft's corporate values. For example: Bing brings "the best match to the top," not the most popular. In other words, Microsoft is overriding the democratic approach for an elitist, we-know-best approach." http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=&articleId=9133682&taxonomyId=&intsrc=kc_feat | Jun 01 07:31 |
DaemonFC | you mean they aren't letting sneaky "search optimizers" game the system | Jun 01 07:32 |
DaemonFC | like Google does? | Jun 01 07:32 |
DaemonFC | joy | Jun 01 07:32 |
schestowitz | Nope | Jun 01 07:34 |
schestowitz | Let me get you a link | Jun 01 07:34 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/25/msn-search-tweak-censorship/ | Jun 01 07:35 |
schestowitz | Your buddy says: " Although Obama said he will withdraw the Bush forces from Iraq by 2011, the army is planning to stay for a decade." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#30%20May%202009%20%28Stay%20for%20a%20decade%29 | Jun 01 07:36 |
DaemonFC | he said combat troops | Jun 01 07:37 |
DaemonFC | never said all of them | Jun 01 07:37 |
schestowitz | Cookies, not torture, convinced al Qaeda suspect to talk, FBI interrogator says < http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/05/cookies-al-qaeda/ > | Jun 01 07:37 |
DaemonFC | plus you can get creative with what a combat troop is | Jun 01 07:37 |
schestowitz | Combative cook | Jun 01 07:37 |
schestowitz | Things get (nuclearly) hotter: North Korea withdraws from 1953 armistice and escalates nuclear tensions < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/27/north-korea-nuclear-dispute > | Jun 01 07:38 |
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DaemonFC | Sean Hannity lasted 6 seconds of waterboarding | Jun 01 07:39 |
DaemonFC | and is now admitting it is torture | Jun 01 07:39 |
DaemonFC | that's awesome | Jun 01 07:39 |
DaemonFC | finally the truth from a Fixed News anchor | Jun 01 07:39 |
DaemonFC | oh wait | Jun 01 07:41 |
DaemonFC | it wasn't Hannity | Jun 01 07:41 |
DaemonFC | he chickened out | Jun 01 07:41 |
DaemonFC | apparently it was some other conservative AM radio fascist gasbag | Jun 01 07:42 |
DaemonFC | so hard to keep track of them | Jun 01 07:42 |
DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jADf7Acwh1ozkVvkjNQ9dkk7GQuQD98ET2P04 | Jun 01 07:43 |
DaemonFC | I always liked Keith Olbermann's name for Sean Hannity | Jun 01 07:45 |
DaemonFC | Hannity the Manatee | Jun 01 07:45 |
DaemonFC | then there's Ann Coultergeist | Jun 01 07:45 |
DaemonFC | and Boss Limbaugh | Jun 01 07:45 |
DaemonFC | and Bill-O The Clown | Jun 01 07:45 |
DaemonFC | http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01nevada.html?ref=global-home | Jun 01 07:49 |
DaemonFC | Nevada becomes 17th state to recognize same sex couples after their Republican governor was overridden by the legislature | Jun 01 07:50 |
DaemonFC | oddly enough the Casino industry lobbied for the bill to pass | Jun 01 07:51 |
DaemonFC | probably figured it would up business in Vegas | Jun 01 07:52 |
DaemonFC | either way, good job | Jun 01 07:52 |
DaemonFC | it looks like Indiana's legislature is going to have to grow a pair and override our governor quite a bit this year | Jun 01 07:53 |
DaemonFC | the governor is hugely unpopular and only won because the Democrats had such an unelectable candidate | Jun 01 07:54 |
DaemonFC | now House and Senate Republicans are both trying to distance themselves from him | Jun 01 07:54 |
DaemonFC | frankly I was hugely disappointed with the Democratic candidate even though I voted for her | Jun 01 07:55 |
schestowitz | How GNU/Linux users can keep Mono at bay < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1090/ > Windows troll Alex Zaharov-Reutt already there | Jun 01 07:56 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Jun 01 07:57 |
DaemonFC | I wonder if Mr Microsoft MVP is aware that IE 8 destroys the formatting of his blog | Jun 01 07:57 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 07:57 |
schestowitz | http://pclinuxos2007.blogspot.com/2009/05/so-whats-real-problem-in-desktop-linux.html | Jun 01 08:01 |
schestowitz | "Usability? I don't think so. Both Gnome 2.26 and KDE 3.5.10 (the most stable, KDE4 still needs some time in oven) desktop environments are able to give M$ a run for its money. Both are beautiful and usable. Compiz beats M$ Aero effects. What's more Linux Desktop Environments are frugal in resource consumption if you compare them with Windows Vista. | Jun 01 08:01 |
schestowitz | Performance? Not at all. Modern Linux kernel is very fast and stable. Modern Linux filesystem is also very versatile. If you doubt try copying GBs of data in a Linux system and do the same in a Windows System (with similar hardware configuration). You will see Linux is definitely faster. Of course, there are so many other speed tests." | Jun 01 08:01 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: which MVP? | Jun 01 08:02 |
DaemonFC | VistaGlazz can really make Aero a lot better | Jun 01 08:03 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately it has to patch system files, and doesn't work with Vista SP2 yet | Jun 01 08:04 |
DaemonFC | if you want to get by with a cheap version of Windows, you'll most likely find yourself patching system files, and if you want to use Vista as a web server, you surely will | Jun 01 08:05 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Jack can't help attacking Linux.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/may/28/netbooks-sales | Jun 01 08:06 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu - Long Term Support - How long is it really? < http://www.linux.com/community/blogs/Ubuntu-Long-Term-Support-How-long-is-it-really-.html > | Jun 01 08:07 |
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schestowitz | More Details on Ubuntu One Integration < http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/05/29/more-details-on-ubuntu-one-integration/ > | Jun 01 08:18 |
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[1]DaemonFC | uggh | Jun 01 08:27 |
[1]DaemonFC | how can it be so damned hot in here? | Jun 01 08:27 |
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oiaohm | twitter: you never get my beliefs. | Jun 01 08:28 |
oiaohm | dri2 will allow compiz to work correctly | Jun 01 08:30 |
oiaohm | Clock is ticking. | Jun 01 08:30 |
DaemonFC | http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8879/70612782.png | Jun 01 08:32 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Funny that IE 8 fucks up his own blog | Jun 01 08:32 |
schestowitz | Haha. | Jun 01 08:32 |
schestowitz | I see now... | Jun 01 08:32 |
*schestowitz waits for next Pirillo rant about IE | Jun 01 08:32 | |
DaemonFC | I also tried it in Compatability View (IE 7 mode) | Jun 01 08:33 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't work right there either | Jun 01 08:33 |
DaemonFC | I don't know why or how anyone can defend IE | Jun 01 08:36 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't just render pages slow | Jun 01 08:37 |
DaemonFC | the user interface is laggy and unresponsive | Jun 01 08:37 |
DaemonFC | even on fast systems | Jun 01 08:37 |
oiaohm | They try to claim secuirty. | Jun 01 08:37 |
oiaohm | But every knows it crap. | Jun 01 08:37 |
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DaemonFC | what's scary is that so many people still use IE 6 because that was the last version that works on Windows 2000 | Jun 01 08:48 |
DaemonFC | or what came with XP | Jun 01 08:48 |
DaemonFC | no service packs for XP will updater IE to 7 or 8 | Jun 01 08:49 |
DaemonFC | that's pushed out as a separate update | Jun 01 08:49 |
DaemonFC | it really shouldn't be an option to keep IE 6 | Jun 01 08:49 |
oiaohm | bot makers lunch. | Jun 01 08:49 |
oiaohm | Lot of people have no understand of the risk they put them at by not updating. | Jun 01 08:50 |
schestowitz | Risk to others | Jun 01 08:55 |
DaemonFC | the latest Chrome weekly build fails ACID 3 | Jun 01 08:56 |
DaemonFC | with a score of 94/100 | Jun 01 08:56 |
oiaohm | It is getting closer. | Jun 01 09:07 |
DaemonFC | no actually | Jun 01 09:07 |
DaemonFC | Chrome 2 passes it | Jun 01 09:07 |
DaemonFC | so they have a regression | Jun 01 09:07 |
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oiaohm | http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/05/the-mips-processor-and-the-150-1.html mips smartbooks on way. | Jun 01 09:11 |
oiaohm | Lower end of the market is going to get quite hostial. | Jun 01 09:12 |
oiaohm | Arm vs Mips. | Jun 01 09:12 |
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oiaohm | Let the phone war expand. | Jun 01 09:12 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft is shutting down Digital Locker and switching to an incompatible "Microsoft Store" | Jun 01 09:38 |
DaemonFC | everyone that bought software from digital locker will have to back up their product keys elsewhere | Jun 01 09:38 |
DaemonFC | nice | Jun 01 09:54 |
DaemonFC | I got plageurized | Jun 01 09:54 |
DaemonFC | http://www.palluxo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=342:two-ways-to-hack-microsoft-vista-operating-system&catid=90:blogs&Itemid=284 | Jun 01 09:54 |
schestowitz | Haha! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrY7WmbWSn8&feature=related | Jun 01 10:00 |
DaemonFC | I really hate Ben Stein | Jun 01 10:00 |
DaemonFC | always have | Jun 01 10:01 |
schestowitz | Yeah, what a goon he is... | Jun 01 10:11 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NSk_ZeAH_I&feature=related | Jun 01 10:11 |
schestowitz | That idiot Stein tries to associated Evoluiton with Nazism | Jun 01 10:12 |
schestowitz | He should be shamed | Jun 01 10:12 |
schestowitz | Also, in the video above, watch how he uses the world "crusade" to describe Darwinism | Jun 01 10:13 |
schestowitz | Atheism="Crusade"? | Jun 01 10:13 |
schestowitz | It's like calling atheism a "religious cult" | Jun 01 10:13 |
DaemonFC | actually, I don't have a problem with them existing or believing whatever stupid crap they believe | Jun 01 10:15 |
oiaohm | Some MS users are a cult. Head in sand about the problems they have. | Jun 01 10:16 |
DaemonFC | Christians and Jews have the biggest persecution complex ever | Jun 01 10:16 |
DaemonFC | if you don't believe the way they do, you're "the enemy" | Jun 01 10:16 |
oiaohm | I am a Buddhist/Christian. So I don't have that persecution complex. | Jun 01 10:16 |
DaemonFC | You can be a Buddhist and a Christian, but not a Christian and a Buddhist | Jun 01 10:17 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 10:17 |
oiaohm | Either way is acceptable to Buddists. | Jun 01 10:18 |
DaemonFC | Christianity does not accept, tolerate, or want to coexist with anything or anyone else | Jun 01 10:18 |
DaemonFC | they all want to slash and burn, kill or convert | Jun 01 10:18 |
DaemonFC | if they don't murder you for not converting, it's because there are laws | Jun 01 10:18 |
DaemonFC | and even that doesn't always stop them | Jun 01 10:18 |
DaemonFC | Christians have no problem with cold blooded murder to silence their critics | Jun 01 10:19 |
DaemonFC | no problem whatsoever | Jun 01 10:19 |
oiaohm | Buddhist rules are some of the best. You don't have to believe in any of there gods. Most of there gods go back to people christians would call sanits. Key thing is your respect for others in Buddhism. | Jun 01 10:20 |
DaemonFC | the Christians typically just use ad hominem attacks to try to discredit you if they can't murder you or otherwise shut you up | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | I can't listen to that Evan Solomon moron! | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | How is this clown on TV? | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | He also attacked Chomsky | Jun 01 10:21 |
oiaohm | Its my buddist side that puts me head to head with twitter. | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | Now Dawkins | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: your TV is kaput | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | With people like Beck.. | Jun 01 10:21 |
DaemonFC | my favorite one is all the lies they spread about minorities and gay people | Jun 01 10:21 |
schestowitz | I can imagine.. | Jun 01 10:22 |
DaemonFC | gay people are plotting... | Jun 01 10:22 |
DaemonFC | What am I plotting to do? Just ask the Christians! | Jun 01 10:22 |
DaemonFC | I'm plotting shit that nobody told me about yet I'm sure | Jun 01 10:22 |
schestowitz | Haha. | Jun 01 10:22 |
DaemonFC | didn't get the memo | Jun 01 10:22 |
oiaohm | Thinking from creature studies it suggest some gays come about from our polution of the earth that god gave us to take care of. | Jun 01 10:22 |
schestowitz | Maybe they'll be the next Stalin | Jun 01 10:22 |
schestowitz | Them and their "crusade" | Jun 01 10:22 |
schestowitz | They'll rape your daughter | Jun 01 10:22 |
schestowitz | And sell you to TEH ALIENS | Jun 01 10:23 |
oiaohm | I can understand god kicking us out of the garden of eden. We are a living destructive pest. | Jun 01 10:24 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: You won't be smiling after I execute my plan that I'm planning to plan | Jun 01 10:24 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 10:24 |
DaemonFC | I don't know what it is, but it's going to be bad | Jun 01 10:24 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 01 10:24 |
schestowitz | Maybe our mind will be kept so open that the brain will slip out too... | Jun 01 10:25 |
schestowitz | Like losing of the tail. | Jun 01 10:25 |
oiaohm | Just as long as it does not envolve demolishing me or the building I am in have fun DaemonFC. | Jun 01 10:25 |
DaemonFC | OK, you tell me, do you fear me and my cat, or do you fear Christian survivalists stocking up on assault rifles and rocket launchers and shit because Obama is the antichrist and will bring about the end of days? | Jun 01 10:26 |
DaemonFC | I mean I am scarier than that | Jun 01 10:26 |
DaemonFC | so I must be pretty bad | Jun 01 10:26 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 10:26 |
oiaohm | Chemical experment goine wrong levelling a building? bad? | Jun 01 10:27 |
DaemonFC | what's scary is that the government allows those crazy retarded militias to keep their weapons | Jun 01 10:27 |
oiaohm | Yes my youth got really scary for me a few times. | Jun 01 10:28 |
DaemonFC | I don't know that 10,000 armed rednecks could take over the country, but it scares the hell out of me that there are 10,000 armed rednecks forming their own combat brigades | Jun 01 10:28 |
oiaohm | Most people collect guns. There are a lot of simple explosive devices you can make that make guns look like a toy. | Jun 01 10:28 |
DaemonFC | heh, I blew up some telephone poles | Jun 01 10:29 |
DaemonFC | with M-80s | Jun 01 10:29 |
DaemonFC | does that count? | Jun 01 10:29 |
DaemonFC | all you need is a cordless drill, an M-80, and a cigarette lighter | Jun 01 10:29 |
DaemonFC | it'll snap the pole in half | Jun 01 10:30 |
oiaohm | Taking a red lazer amping the freq up and blowing 4 holes in the walls n s e w. | Jun 01 10:30 |
oiaohm | I did that in high school. | Jun 01 10:30 |
oiaohm | By pure luck I missed me and the teacher. | Jun 01 10:30 |
oiaohm | Got the idea of storing light. Kinda worked other than the material I choose acting as a freq changer. | Jun 01 10:31 |
schestowitz | > <DaemonFC> what's scary is that the government allows those crazy retarded militias to keep their weapons | Jun 01 10:32 |
schestowitz | What is "government? | Jun 01 10:32 |
schestowitz | It's just people | Jun 01 10:32 |
schestowitz | Guess which people... | Jun 01 10:32 |
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DaemonFC | hmmmm | Jun 01 10:32 |
_Hicham_ | Hi All! | Jun 01 10:32 |
_Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC | Jun 01 10:32 |
DaemonFC | Windows Media Player can't read the id3 tag in a FLAC file | Jun 01 10:32 |
oiaohm | Australia only armmours are allowed to have large weapon collections DaemonFC | Jun 01 10:32 |
_Hicham_ | howdy? | Jun 01 10:32 |
DaemonFC | but you can still make playlists out of them | Jun 01 10:33 |
ushimitsudoki | howdy | Jun 01 10:33 |
oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | Jun 01 10:33 |
_Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC is confirmed MS terrorist | Jun 01 10:33 |
oiaohm | Ie people who know how to make weapons can have as many as they like. Including having private tanks. | Jun 01 10:33 |
DaemonFC | I do have a semi automatic shotgun | Jun 01 10:33 |
_Hicham_ | he spread terror and horror in BN | Jun 01 10:33 |
DaemonFC | and door breaching cartridges :) | Jun 01 10:34 |
DaemonFC | those will also punch through most body armor | Jun 01 10:34 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : put in your ass and shoot | Jun 01 10:34 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahahaha | Jun 01 10:34 |
oiaohm | Normal people are not trusted with that kind of weapons DaemonFC. Armmours here are the acception they are allowed everything including mil grade stuff. | Jun 01 10:35 |
DaemonFC | you can't buy door breaching cartridges | Jun 01 10:35 |
schestowitz | Shells for tank artillery too? | Jun 01 10:35 |
DaemonFC | I acquired them | Jun 01 10:35 |
oiaohm | Yep schestowitz | Jun 01 10:35 |
oiaohm | and the tanks to use them. | Jun 01 10:36 |
schestowitz | What for? | Jun 01 10:36 |
schestowitz | I hear that US veteran are recruited | Jun 01 10:36 |
oiaohm | The are weapon developers. | Jun 01 10:36 |
oiaohm | They are weapon developers. | Jun 01 10:36 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : MS is sending him to kill u | Jun 01 10:36 |
schestowitz | As if the minority militias will rise | Jun 01 10:36 |
DaemonFC | I've also filed the tips off the .38 bullets | Jun 01 10:36 |
schestowitz | Maybe civil wars | Jun 01 10:36 |
oiaohm | So they are allowed ot have everything. | Jun 01 10:36 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 10:36 |
schestowitz | But why are they lettting them be armed? | Jun 01 10:36 |
DaemonFC | that's not strictly legal | Jun 01 10:36 |
_Hicham_ | but oiaohm will defend us | Jun 01 10:36 |
oiaohm | Only one accept they are not allowed aircraft. | Jun 01 10:36 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm is a rough soldier | Jun 01 10:36 |
schestowitz | An exercise in natural destruction? | Jun 01 10:37 |
DaemonFC | I do have some training | Jun 01 10:37 |
schestowitz | Pigeon chasing army... | Jun 01 10:37 |
schestowitz | I used some Colt at the range | Jun 01 10:38 |
schestowitz | I was a good shooter. Beat the class. | Jun 01 10:38 |
DaemonFC | evasive driving was the fun part | Jun 01 10:38 |
schestowitz | Anyway, let's change topic.. | Jun 01 10:38 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: person is a armmour they have the knowleddge to make any kind of weapon anyhow. | Jun 01 10:38 |
schestowitz | I've just posted news | Jun 01 10:38 |
DaemonFC | driving through an obstacle course in reverse | Jun 01 10:38 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: not good weapons | Jun 01 10:39 |
DaemonFC | at about 40 miles per hour | Jun 01 10:39 |
oiaohm | No point telling them they cannot buy something. | Jun 01 10:39 |
oiaohm | Armour to get is a 6 year course covering all parts of weapon design including reversing. schestowitz. | Jun 01 10:39 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : this DaemonFC is trying to bring the whole channel to jail | Jun 01 10:40 |
oiaohm | Yes they do know how to make weapons that work. | Jun 01 10:40 |
schestowitz | Not really, _Hicham_ | Jun 01 10:40 |
schestowitz | Nothing illegal here | Jun 01 10:40 |
schestowitz | Debate is a way of resolving this | Jun 01 10:40 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: if you follow closely you'll find we're anti-War | Jun 01 10:40 |
oiaohm | Most places there are legal ways to do everything. | Jun 01 10:40 |
schestowitz | Being more towards pacificm is no crime. | Jun 01 10:41 |
schestowitz | *ism | Jun 01 10:41 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is an aggressive person | Jun 01 10:41 |
_Hicham_ | he likes war | Jun 01 10:41 |
schestowitz | Responsive, I think | Jun 01 10:41 |
schestowitz | They wage war against him | Jun 01 10:41 |
_Hicham_ | he should have been sent to Iraq | Jun 01 10:41 |
_Hicham_ | so that he would never talk of weapons again | Jun 01 10:41 |
schestowitz | The US glorifies weapons | Jun 01 10:42 |
schestowitz | They show people 3D models of weapons and helicopters and stuff | Jun 01 10:42 |
schestowitz | This way they can sell war | Jun 01 10:42 |
schestowitz | It's just means of buying consent. Glamorisation of weaponry. | Jun 01 10:42 |
schestowitz | Very, very disturbing.. | Jun 01 10:42 |
_Hicham_ | that is why they have the highest crime rate in the world | Jun 01 10:43 |
_Hicham_ | killing is made easy in the US | Jun 01 10:43 |
_Hicham_ | people are treated like insects in there | Jun 01 10:43 |
_Hicham_ | theoretically, the US will auto-destruct itself | Jun 01 10:44 |
DaemonFC | doubtful | Jun 01 10:44 |
_Hicham_ | its strength can become its weakness easily | Jun 01 10:44 |
DaemonFC | the birthrate in the US is lower than the death rate | Jun 01 10:45 |
DaemonFC | immigration is raising the population though | Jun 01 10:45 |
_Hicham_ | probably DaemonFC will save the US | Jun 01 10:45 |
DaemonFC | eventually we'll all just be one big happy shade of gray | Jun 01 10:45 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 10:45 |
_Hicham_ | do u have a plan to couter the US economy crisis? | Jun 01 10:45 |
DaemonFC | yeah, print more pretend money and pretend that it's worth something | Jun 01 10:46 |
DaemonFC | works for the rest of the world | Jun 01 10:46 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahaha | Jun 01 10:46 |
_Hicham_ | really smart idea | Jun 01 10:46 |
_Hicham_ | u r really Adam Smith of the new century | Jun 01 10:46 |
DaemonFC | now here I say something about "yada yada service based economy" and ignore the 15% unemployment | Jun 01 10:47 |
_Hicham_ | do u know what is that called? | Jun 01 10:47 |
DaemonFC | and I'm a Republican | Jun 01 10:47 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 10:47 |
_Hicham_ | service based economy in the US? | Jun 01 10:47 |
_Hicham_ | unemployment is more than 15% | Jun 01 10:47 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they were saying that the problems were temporary and the result of us switching to a service based economy | Jun 01 10:48 |
DaemonFC | while the Bushies were in charge | Jun 01 10:48 |
DaemonFC | then the whole rotten system fell apart right before they could shoehorn Bush 2.0 into office | Jun 01 10:48 |
_Hicham_ | the US won't be even able to be a service based economy | Jun 01 10:49 |
_Hicham_ | East-South Asia is also strong in services | Jun 01 10:49 |
DaemonFC | the government let the housing scam continue even though they knew what it was | Jun 01 10:49 |
DaemonFC | because it was creating jobs | Jun 01 10:49 |
_Hicham_ | internally, yes | Jun 01 10:49 |
DaemonFC | and they thought it would continue long enough to get McCain into office | Jun 01 10:49 |
DaemonFC | before it fell apart | Jun 01 10:49 |
DaemonFC | and it didn't | Jun 01 10:49 |
_Hicham_ | are u aware that the US is outsourcing more and more of its services? | Jun 01 10:50 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 01 10:50 | |
DaemonFC | and when it fell apart, the government through a trillion dollars at the banksters that caused the whole mess | Jun 01 10:50 |
DaemonFC | an orgy | Jun 01 10:50 |
DaemonFC | a feeding frenzy | Jun 01 10:50 |
_Hicham_ | this outsourcing will make the US a hollow country | Jun 01 10:50 |
DaemonFC | paid for with my money | Jun 01 10:50 |
DaemonFC | *threw | Jun 01 10:51 |
DaemonFC | then the banksters used the money to finance even more fucking over of the poor and middle class | Jun 01 10:51 |
DaemonFC | they preyed on the poor and middle class and were rewarded with a trillion dollar bonus paid for by the poor and middle class | Jun 01 10:52 |
DaemonFC | the same people that were being foreclosed on | Jun 01 10:52 |
_Hicham_ | the US is in a critical state | Jun 01 10:52 |
DaemonFC | and having their credit card rate jacked up even if they managed to pay on time every time | Jun 01 10:53 |
_Hicham_ | they don't know how to counter China | Jun 01 10:53 |
_Hicham_ | they must go into Iran | Jun 01 10:53 |
DaemonFC | I'd prefer we didn't | Jun 01 10:53 |
_Hicham_ | if they ever go into Iran, you will be plain fucked Mr DaemonFC | Jun 01 10:53 |
DaemonFC | Iran doesn't have anything capable of hitting the US | Jun 01 10:53 |
_Hicham_ | because you will lose what is left in banks | Jun 01 10:54 |
_Hicham_ | they don't have to hit u | Jun 01 10:54 |
DaemonFC | lets let them kick the ass of some other country and then have the world beg us to come help | Jun 01 10:54 |
DaemonFC | cause you know that's what will happen | Jun 01 10:54 |
_Hicham_ | it won't | Jun 01 10:54 |
_Hicham_ | Iran is smarter than that | Jun 01 10:54 |
DaemonFC | we should not invade, we should just destroy their ability to operate | Jun 01 10:55 |
_Hicham_ | the US can't recover from the crisis and still be in Iraq | Jun 01 10:55 |
DaemonFC | oh something will happen alright | Jun 01 10:55 |
_Hicham_ | no, nothing will happen | Jun 01 10:55 |
DaemonFC | their neighbors are opportunists and their own citizens would revolt against what's left of the government | Jun 01 10:55 |
DaemonFC | all we'd have to do is sit back and let them kill each other | Jun 01 10:56 |
_Hicham_ | their citizens love the govenment | Jun 01 10:56 |
DaemonFC | yeah, the ones that aren't murdered in the streets | Jun 01 10:56 |
_Hicham_ | countries are more and more aware of US old strategy | Jun 01 10:56 |
DaemonFC | Iran is a bunch of pig fuckers | Jun 01 10:56 |
DaemonFC | to be kind to them | Jun 01 10:56 |
DaemonFC | they execute teenagers who haven't even done anything wrong | Jun 01 10:57 |
_Hicham_ | who told u that? | Jun 01 10:57 |
DaemonFC | they're barbarians | Jun 01 10:57 |
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3") | Jun 01 10:57 | |
DaemonFC | they murder gay people | Jun 01 10:57 |
DaemonFC | even teenagers | Jun 01 10:57 |
DaemonFC | publically | Jun 01 10:57 |
DaemonFC | *publicly | Jun 01 10:57 |
DaemonFC | they're crazy and uncivilized | Jun 01 10:57 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: enough, please | Jun 01 10:58 |
schestowitz | Generalisations and all. | Jun 01 10:58 |
DaemonFC | no, they murdered a 14 and 16 year old publicly | Jun 01 10:58 |
DaemonFC | by hanging | Jun 01 10:58 |
schestowitz | No more Fox Channel on yo' box | Jun 01 10:58 |
DaemonFC | you can even google that | Jun 01 10:58 |
DaemonFC | the government is from the middle ages | Jun 01 10:58 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Asgari_and_Ayaz_Marhoni | Jun 01 10:59 |
DaemonFC | Mahmoud Asgari, 16, (Persian: ????? ?????) and Ayaz Marhoni, 18, (Persian: ???? ??????) were Iranian teenagers from the province of Khuzestan who were publicly hanged in Edalat (Justice) Square in Mashhad, northeast Iran, on July 19, 2005. | Jun 01 10:59 |
DaemonFC | The case attracted the attention of the international media because of deeply disturbing photographs of the two as they were taken to be hanged. Many human rights activists found them a powerful, emotional indictment of the death penalty. | Jun 01 10:59 |
DaemonFC | The British group OutRage! initially alleged that the boys had been executed for engaging in consensual homosexual sex. | Jun 01 10:59 |
DaemonFC | They have emphasized instead that the executions are a violation of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Iran is a signatory to both), which prohibit the execution of minors. | Jun 01 10:59 |
DaemonFC | this isn't some crazy Fox News thing | Jun 01 11:01 |
DaemonFC | Iran is jsut like that | Jun 01 11:01 |
DaemonFC | and the people that do these things deserve no mercy | Jun 01 11:01 |
_Hicham_ | the US is no better | Jun 01 11:01 |
DaemonFC | if there was any real justice in the world, the people that did this to those boys would be brought up on charges | Jun 01 11:01 |
DaemonFC | Iran is despicable | Jun 01 11:02 |
_Hicham_ | the US is filled with child molesters | Jun 01 11:02 |
DaemonFC | yeah, well, we have the rule of law | Jun 01 11:02 |
DaemonFC | unlike Iran | Jun 01 11:02 |
DaemonFC | they just have crazy fucking Muslims | Jun 01 11:02 |
_Hicham_ | child porn is number 1 in the US | Jun 01 11:02 |
DaemonFC | yeah, and it's also a crime and the people that get caught are given a fair trial | Jun 01 11:03 |
DaemonFC | by jury | Jun 01 11:03 |
DaemonFC | unlike Iran | Jun 01 11:03 |
DaemonFC | Iran just murders you if you're even accused of breaking their religious law | Jun 01 11:03 |
_Hicham_ | normal | Jun 01 11:03 |
_Hicham_ | try to say sthg about Israel in the US | Jun 01 11:03 |
_Hicham_ | and u will see | Jun 01 11:04 |
DaemonFC | no, the US is not like Iran, I've never seen anyone just get strung up in the streets | Jun 01 11:04 |
DaemonFC | Iran is worse than the US has ever been or ever will be | Jun 01 11:04 |
_Hicham_ | they will publicly take your pants off and fuck you in front of the White House | Jun 01 11:04 |
_Hicham_ | just try to say sthg bad about Israel | Jun 01 11:04 |
DaemonFC | Israel doesn't murder gay people in the streets | Jun 01 11:05 |
DaemonFC | actually, they recognize civil unions there | Jun 01 11:05 |
DaemonFC | it's nothing like the Muslim countries at all | Jun 01 11:05 |
_Hicham_ | gay people get murdered by themselves | Jun 01 11:05 |
_Hicham_ | they kill each other at last | Jun 01 11:05 |
DaemonFC | Muslims just disgust me like few things are even capable | Jun 01 11:06 |
DaemonFC | they have no decency | Jun 01 11:06 |
_Hicham_ | homosexuality should be treated | Jun 01 11:06 |
_Hicham_ | it is a disease | Jun 01 11:06 |
DaemonFC | no you are a disease | Jun 01 11:06 |
_Hicham_ | it is against human nature | Jun 01 11:06 |
DaemonFC | and should be treated | Jun 01 11:06 |
_Hicham_ | go google for that | Jun 01 11:07 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: I'm not subject to your opinions | Jun 01 11:07 |
DaemonFC | and I'm sorry that you have been decieved by religion | Jun 01 11:07 |
_Hicham_ | I am not deceived by religion | Jun 01 11:07 |
DaemonFC | there's nothing wrong with me | Jun 01 11:07 |
_Hicham_ | I am convinced | Jun 01 11:07 |
DaemonFC | well, you're an idiot | Jun 01 11:07 |
_Hicham_ | because I try to use my mind when seeing things | Jun 01 11:08 |
DaemonFC | and I am convinced of that | Jun 01 11:08 |
DaemonFC | only a barbarian would even still think like you do | Jun 01 11:08 |
_Hicham_ | go see the number of gays who killed each other, and the number of gay suicide | Jun 01 11:08 |
DaemonFC | you're wrong | Jun 01 11:08 |
DaemonFC | and you are filled with hate | Jun 01 11:08 |
_Hicham_ | I am not filled with hate | Jun 01 11:09 |
DaemonFC | funny how people like you say there's something wrong with me | Jun 01 11:09 |
DaemonFC | you form your own twisted opinions of people around you | Jun 01 11:09 |
_Hicham_ | I didn't say there is sthg wrong with u | Jun 01 11:09 |
DaemonFC | even when you obviously have no understanding of them | Jun 01 11:09 |
DaemonFC | you are a sociopath | Jun 01 11:09 |
_Hicham_ | I am not forming it of people around me | Jun 01 11:09 |
_Hicham_ | if I was in the US, I would have had the same opinions | Jun 01 11:10 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure you hate me because someone told you to | Jun 01 11:10 |
_Hicham_ | why should I hate u? | Jun 01 11:10 |
DaemonFC | you're so blinded by hate that you would never get a chance to know someone | Jun 01 11:10 |
_Hicham_ | I don't hate anyone | Jun 01 11:10 |
DaemonFC | just hate them because someone told you to | Jun 01 11:10 |
_Hicham_ | I am open to anyone | Jun 01 11:10 |
DaemonFC | yeah, that's the excuse you people always hide behind | Jun 01 11:11 |
_goblin | _hitcham_: Its a trap don't fall for it. | Jun 01 11:11 |
schestowitz | Yeah. | Jun 01 11:11 |
DaemonFC | "We don't hate you, you're jsut a pervert who is going to hell" | Jun 01 11:11 |
schestowitz | Let's change subject | Jun 01 11:11 |
DaemonFC | "You're mentally ill" | Jun 01 11:11 |
_Hicham_ | you are just making things up | Jun 01 11:11 |
_goblin | DaemonFC: I know nothing of your background (nor is it relevant) but your vulgar (and rude) posts do the talking for you. | Jun 01 11:12 |
_Hicham_ | and u r impulsive | Jun 01 11:12 |
DaemonFC | no, you're presenting false factoids you got from some cleric or preacher or rabbi or whatever you believe in | Jun 01 11:12 |
DaemonFC | and you're trying to belittle me even though you don't even know me | Jun 01 11:12 |
_goblin | Your comments are niether appropriate nor relevant to the BN chatroom (IMO) | Jun 01 11:12 |
_Hicham_ | I am presenting sthg from scientists Mr DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:12 |
DaemonFC | which really says more about you | Jun 01 11:12 |
DaemonFC | no you aren't | Jun 01 11:13 |
DaemonFC | you're presenting things that someone (possibly you?) made up | Jun 01 11:13 |
_goblin | Yes Daemon, Im trying to belittle you by staying polite and not vulgar?!?! Unlike you. | Jun 01 11:13 |
_Hicham_ | you really didn't read about that | Jun 01 11:13 |
DaemonFC | because no scientist would ever just blurt out something that obviously false and boneheaded | Jun 01 11:13 |
_goblin | Daemon you are belittling yourself and doing a far better job than I could. | Jun 01 11:13 |
_goblin | can we now move topic?? | Jun 01 11:13 |
schestowitz | marbux keeps mailing me those long attacks against Rob Wier... | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | I just got this: | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | I wonder what, if anything, this might have to do with last two weeks' | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | invitations from various MSFTers like Gary Edward to join his group on | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | Facebook? | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/all-the-microsoft-emploshills-join-forces/ | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | Gathering info about who is working where with whom? | Jun 01 11:14 |
schestowitz | Basically, Microsoft is still very hostile t/w ODF | Jun 01 11:15 |
schestowitz | They have bizarre new tactics | Jun 01 11:15 |
schestowitz | And they use their 'TEs' (shills) in the process on the face of it | Jun 01 11:15 |
schestowitz | Someone should call Neelie ;-) | Jun 01 11:16 |
oiaohm | ODF gets stronger MS get weaker. | Jun 01 11:16 |
_Hicham_ | ODF is more complete than MS XML format | Jun 01 11:16 |
oiaohm | ODF standard doc is writen as a standard doc. OOXML standard doc is writen as a hybred between a standard doc and programming guide and samples. Basically huge mother of a mess. | Jun 01 11:17 |
oiaohm | And explains why MS has so many internal problems. | Jun 01 11:18 |
_Hicham_ | MS want to lock the format to its platform as always | Jun 01 11:18 |
DaemonFC | OOXML works in OpenOffice with an add-on | Jun 01 11:19 |
_Hicham_ | Novell add-on | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | Haha! | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.bing.com | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.15 Linux unknown 30-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.8 Linux unknown 28-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.9 Linux unknown 28-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.9 Linux unknown 27-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | Akamai Technologies 92.122.126.232 Linux unknown 27-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | Akamai Technologies 92.122.208.235 Linux unknown 26-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.9 Linux unknown 22-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | Akamai Technologies 92.122.127.19 Linux unknown 21-May-2009 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | DOTSTER INC 8100 NE PARKWAY DR FLOOR 3 VANCOUVER WA US 98662 66.150.161.135 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | Linux Apache/1.3.26 Unix PHP/4.2.3 12-Jul-2003 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | DOTSTER INC 8100 NE PARKWAY DR FLOOR 3 VANCOUVER WA US 98662 66.150.161.133 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | Linux Apache/1.3.26 Unix PHP/4.2.3 10-Jul-2003 | Jun 01 11:19 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: ODF is the route for man government out of MS Office | Jun 01 11:20 |
schestowitz | When MS Office goes out, so does Windows, in due time | Jun 01 11:20 |
schestowitz | Microsoft understands this | Jun 01 11:20 |
schestowitz | Now Ecuador joins ODF | Jun 01 11:20 |
oiaohm | Hmm | Jun 01 11:20 |
schestowitz | Governments are where money is made | Jun 01 11:20 |
schestowitz | Because in most countries they allow counterfeiting outside govt. | Jun 01 11:20 |
schestowitz | And the govt. impacts companies and thus people's use of computers too | Jun 01 11:21 |
DaemonFC | every office suite that wants to stay relevant is supporting OOXML | Jun 01 11:21 |
schestowitz | If the govt. uses ODF and OOo, then others might soon follow | Jun 01 11:21 |
DaemonFC | OOo just has to be petty and won't let you save to it | Jun 01 11:21 |
DaemonFC | without the extension | Jun 01 11:21 |
oiaohm | Koffice | Jun 01 11:21 |
schestowitz | OOXML needs Windows | Jun 01 11:21 |
DaemonFC | no it doesn't | Jun 01 11:21 |
schestowitz | There are plat-specific parts in it | Jun 01 11:21 |
_goblin | heres a cracking comment for you: "Its good to be a Microsoft nerd because apple is over rated and designed for aesthetics not functionality" | Jun 01 11:21 |
schestowitz | It can't be implemented | Jun 01 11:21 |
schestowitz | And MS keeps extending its weird variants of OOXML | Jun 01 11:22 |
oiaohm | Not can't be implemented. | Jun 01 11:22 |
oiaohm | Insanely hard to implement. | Jun 01 11:22 |
schestowitz | It never even implemented OOXML | Jun 01 11:22 |
schestowitz | it never will | Jun 01 11:22 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: it's not implement | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | It's replicate | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | And it's not OOXML | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | OOXML is not the yard stick | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | Microsoft does not implment OOXML | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | its docx format is still a secret | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | Not documented | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | No source code, either | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | ECMA OOXML=red herring | Jun 01 11:23 |
schestowitz | Like the US amendment to the constitution | Jun 01 11:24 |
_Hicham_ | docx is a compressed archive of xml files | Jun 01 11:24 |
schestowitz | B[ush]allmer is trampling on them | Jun 01 11:24 |
oiaohm | As we get more arm and mips in the market importance of windows will reduce. | Jun 01 11:25 |
oiaohm | The market is now basically posionsed. | Jun 01 11:25 |
schestowitz | It already is | Jun 01 11:25 |
schestowitz | With or without ARM | Jun 01 11:25 |
schestowitz | or MIPS for that matter | Jun 01 11:26 |
schestowitz | RISC | Jun 01 11:26 |
oiaohm | Arm and mips introduce platforms Windows cannot run on. | Jun 01 11:26 |
schestowitz | Software monocultre requires h/w monoculture | Jun 01 11:26 |
oiaohm | So segmenting the market. | Jun 01 11:26 |
schestowitz | That's why MS never made it big in phone | Jun 01 11:26 |
schestowitz | Lost billions | Jun 01 11:26 |
oiaohm | Mips and arm units will most likely sell for the same reason EEE Pc did. | Jun 01 11:27 |
oiaohm | They are cheep and do what most people need. | Jun 01 11:27 |
DaemonFC | I don't really know how OOo can say it's Microsoft compatible when it obviously idn't | Jun 01 11:27 |
DaemonFC | you get files in docx but it won't let you save them is that | Jun 01 11:27 |
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 01 11:27 | |
_Hicham_ | why save files in docx? | Jun 01 11:28 |
DaemonFC | you can convert them to odt and get teh standard "What the hell is this?" when you give it to someone | Jun 01 11:28 |
oiaohm | Compatible does not required to be save back in a format. | Jun 01 11:28 |
DaemonFC | or you can get the Novell export filter | Jun 01 11:28 |
DaemonFC | or you can buy Microsoft Office | Jun 01 11:28 |
oiaohm | Particular a format that is changing between office versions. | Jun 01 11:28 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is promoting docx | Jun 01 11:28 |
_Hicham_ | as always | Jun 01 11:28 |
oiaohm | There are incompadiblitys even between MS Office 2007 service packs. | Jun 01 11:28 |
oiaohm | with ooxml. | Jun 01 11:29 |
DaemonFC | no, I can't just send an odt file to someone and expect them to download another office suite to open it | Jun 01 11:29 |
oiaohm | Basically if someone cannot make a format that works you don't have to save as it. | Jun 01 11:29 |
_Hicham_ | there is incompatibilities within the same version of Office | Jun 01 11:29 |
DaemonFC | the reason OOo can't save natively is to try to spam OOo | Jun 01 11:29 |
oiaohm | There is a odt engine for MS Office. | Jun 01 11:29 |
_Hicham_ | OpenOffice is far more robust than MS Office | Jun 01 11:29 |
oiaohm | So what is the problem. | Jun 01 11:29 |
oiaohm | You save in stable formats. | Jun 01 11:29 |
DaemonFC | you have to download a 80 meg file from Sun | Jun 01 11:29 |
DaemonFC | to open a document | Jun 01 11:29 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : you can save it in doc format | Jun 01 11:29 |
oiaohm | When MS gets there formats sorted out maybe then support ooxml proper. | Jun 01 11:30 |
_Hicham_ | doc format is more spread than docx | Jun 01 11:30 |
oiaohm | At this stage MS is still changing mind on how sections of ooxml works. | Jun 01 11:30 |
_Hicham_ | I don't see where is the problem | Jun 01 11:30 |
oiaohm | Wise would be to stick to old doc that is more stable or odf. | Jun 01 11:30 |
_Hicham_ | a lot of people are still using Office 2003 and earlier | Jun 01 11:31 |
DaemonFC | well, you can't save your modifications without requiring everyone you send that file to download OOo | Jun 01 11:31 |
oiaohm | Both are at least decently stable formats. | Jun 01 11:31 |
DaemonFC | which is the whole point for OOo to be incompatible | Jun 01 11:31 |
oiaohm | No DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:31 |
oiaohm | OOo did implement a ooxml writer as per standard. | Jun 01 11:31 |
oiaohm | Guess what. | Jun 01 11:31 |
oiaohm | MS Office 2007 cannot even open the files. | Jun 01 11:31 |
oiaohm | The files produced are purely to standard. | Jun 01 11:32 |
oiaohm | Turns out you have to break standard so MS Office 2007 can open them. | Jun 01 11:32 |
_Hicham_ | "I am trolling, I am trolling, far away, into BN", a song made by DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:32 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_ has a mental illness | Jun 01 11:32 |
oiaohm | Basically when MS gets there implementation and standard matching then OOo has to support it. | Jun 01 11:33 |
DaemonFC | it's a scientific fact that _Hicham_ will go kill himself | Jun 01 11:33 |
oiaohm | Is it bugs in 2007 that will be fixed? | Jun 01 11:33 |
*DaemonFC likes pulling obvious lies out of his ass, just like _Hicham_ | Jun 01 11:33 | |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 11:33 |
oiaohm | Or is it bugs in standards. | Jun 01 11:33 |
_goblin | is DaemonFC supposed to be a troll? | Jun 01 11:33 |
_goblin | all they seem to do is stimulate debate | Jun 01 11:33 |
oiaohm | Why should OOo be a mind reader here DaemonFC? | Jun 01 11:33 |
_Hicham_ | no, DaemonFC is a confirmed troll | Jun 01 11:33 |
_Hicham_ | signed by MS | Jun 01 11:34 |
_goblin | he's not very good | Jun 01 11:34 |
DaemonFC | the filter to let OOo save to Office 2007 files is 4 megs | Jun 01 11:34 |
_Hicham_ | he exists in their WHCL | Jun 01 11:34 |
_goblin | MS would pay for that? | Jun 01 11:34 |
DaemonFC | and produces files that work with Office 2007 | Jun 01 11:34 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: Match filter to standard and it invalid. | Jun 01 11:34 |
_Hicham_ | Yes, they pay his internet connection | Jun 01 11:34 |
_goblin | lol | Jun 01 11:34 |
oiaohm | Openoffice lead developers decide not to take part in releasing breach of standard. | Jun 01 11:35 |
oiaohm | If Novell wants to that is there option. | Jun 01 11:35 |
oiaohm | Files produced in breach of standard are no good for archiving. | Jun 01 11:36 |
DaemonFC | so in otherwords, it needs third party plugins to do what you downloaded it to do | Jun 01 11:36 |
oiaohm | In other words you should be asking very big questions why saving in a broken format. | Jun 01 11:36 |
_Hicham_ | praising MS oiaohm | Jun 01 11:36 |
_Hicham_ | as always | Jun 01 11:36 |
oiaohm | That may be 100 useless to you in future DaemonFC. | Jun 01 11:37 |
_Hicham_ | he is a small MS fanboy oiaohm | Jun 01 11:37 |
_Hicham_ | he is Windows compatible | Jun 01 11:37 |
oiaohm | If you choose to go that path OOo has just made sure they cannot be blamed for your problems DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:37 |
_Hicham_ | and Windows specific | Jun 01 11:37 |
oiaohm | I cannot blame them for taking that path. | Jun 01 11:38 |
_Hicham_ | they are taking the most reasonable path | Jun 01 11:38 |
_Hicham_ | not Mr DaemonFC's path | Jun 01 11:38 |
oiaohm | I can blame MS for not being able to implement there own standard correctly so causing OOo not to support OOXML. | Jun 01 11:38 |
_Hicham_ | don't worry, DaemonFC will implement it soon | Jun 01 11:39 |
oiaohm | By the way failing to implement OOXML correctly explains why MS networking with new versions of Windows and old versions of Windows is so hit and miss. | Jun 01 11:39 |
_Hicham_ | isn't it Mr DaemonFC? | Jun 01 11:39 |
oiaohm | It undermines everything MS tech DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:40 |
oiaohm | To build good quality programs you must be able to produce standards and follow them. | Jun 01 11:40 |
_goblin | I think you've upset him. | Jun 01 11:41 |
_Hicham_ | they never had good quality programs | Jun 01 11:41 |
_Hicham_ | apart Visual Studio | Jun 01 11:41 |
oiaohm | OOXML was open to the public that showed what was going on. | Jun 01 11:41 |
_Hicham_ | Visual Studio is their only good produc | Jun 01 11:41 |
_Hicham_ | product | Jun 01 11:41 |
_goblin | The new calculator for 7 is apparently quite good. ;) | Jun 01 11:41 |
oiaohm | even Visual Studio has version compadiblity problems. | Jun 01 11:42 |
_Hicham_ | great new _goblin | Jun 01 11:42 |
_goblin | Andre Da Costa said so, so it must be true !?! | Jun 01 11:42 |
oiaohm | what most likely track to this lack of standard following ablity. | Jun 01 11:42 |
_Hicham_ | _goblin : by the way, where is the big G? | Jun 01 11:42 |
_goblin | Big G? | Jun 01 11:42 |
oiaohm | OOXML is a stupid thing for a MS person to use to attack anything. | Jun 01 11:42 |
_Hicham_ | yes, as _Goblin | Jun 01 11:42 |
oiaohm | It pure evidence of MS internal problems. | Jun 01 11:43 |
_goblin | ah! :) | Jun 01 11:43 |
*_goblin is now known as _Goblin | Jun 01 11:43 | |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : DaemonFC is working on that | Jun 01 11:43 |
DaemonFC | http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7696/57251528.png | Jun 01 11:43 |
_Goblin | I hope he brings back Clippy. He represented MS far better than Ballmer | Jun 01 11:44 |
oiaohm | I am not 100 perent pro Linux. | Jun 01 11:44 |
oiaohm | There are many items I would never use to make a case on either side. | Jun 01 11:44 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : great discovery | Jun 01 11:45 |
_Goblin | I think though because shills have never actually used anything other than MS, they have poor counter arguments. | Jun 01 11:45 |
_Goblin | I think a Linux user could make a very good Windows shill. | Jun 01 11:45 |
_Hicham_ | fuck Windows | Jun 01 11:46 |
_Hicham_ | I used every trick to secure it, but it is insecure by definition | Jun 01 11:46 |
_Goblin | keep it offline? | Jun 01 11:47 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFCOS is the OS of the future | Jun 01 11:47 |
_Goblin | lol. | Jun 01 11:47 |
DaemonFC | no, you're insecure | Jun 01 11:47 |
*DaemonFC gives _Hicham_ a hug | Jun 01 11:47 | |
_Goblin | what about me? | Jun 01 11:47 |
oiaohm | Besides most business I deal with are running office 2003 | Jun 01 11:47 |
_Hicham_ | thanks DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:47 |
oiaohm | So cannot open docx anyhow. | Jun 01 11:47 |
DaemonFC | careful _Hicham_ I have cooties | Jun 01 11:48 |
DaemonFC | remember? :) | Jun 01 11:48 |
_Goblin | Its OK, Hicham uses Linux. He wont get infected. | Jun 01 11:48 |
DaemonFC | OOo can save to Word 2003 XML | Jun 01 11:48 |
_Hicham_ | no problem, I am not afraid of dying | Jun 01 11:48 |
oiaohm | Not standard. DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:48 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : I faced death many times | Jun 01 11:48 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Can I ask you a sensible question? | Jun 01 11:49 |
_Hicham_ | _Goblin : go ask him, he is cool | Jun 01 11:50 |
_Goblin | Why on earth do you come here? (thats not saying your not welcome, I just want to understand your motives) | Jun 01 11:50 |
_Hicham_ | he LOVES MS | Jun 01 11:50 |
oiaohm | Sorry miss read. | Jun 01 11:50 |
_Hicham_ | he is deeply in love with MS | Jun 01 11:50 |
oiaohm | Word 2003 XML is not docx | Jun 01 11:50 |
_Goblin | But he's doing no good for them... | Jun 01 11:51 |
oiaohm | It also throws away large sections of documents. | Jun 01 11:51 |
_Hicham_ | Word XML is very slow | Jun 01 11:51 |
_Goblin | he's failed to understand that whilst he tries to counter he makes a platform for more uncomfortable truths about Microsoft.. | Jun 01 11:51 |
oiaohm | Its ms first attempt at a XML format. They did manage to implement Word 2003 XML to there documentation. | Jun 01 11:51 |
oiaohm | So OpenOffice support it. | Jun 01 11:51 |
oiaohm | Lack of support is either lack of coders. Or some problem with the format itself. | Jun 01 11:52 |
_Hicham_ | Microsoft do not release documentation for non profitable products | Jun 01 11:52 |
_Hicham_ | OOXML specs are weird | Jun 01 11:53 |
_Hicham_ | just like DaemonFC | Jun 01 11:53 |
oiaohm | Not just weird | Jun 01 11:53 |
oiaohm | You make test cases from them and they don't work with MS Office 2007. | Jun 01 11:53 |
oiaohm | At testcases made from ODF documentation works. | Jun 01 11:54 |
oiaohm | Same with test cases made from Word 2003 XML. | Jun 01 11:54 |
_Hicham_ | where are u Mr DaemonFC? | Jun 01 11:56 |
_Hicham_ | he is gone asleep I think | Jun 01 11:56 |
schestowitz | Maybe the doctor :-) j/k | Jun 01 11:56 |
oiaohm | Its also why ODF makes blew there stack at MS for puting OOXML formulars in ODF spreed sheets. | Jun 01 11:57 |
schestowitz | I'm doing a short post on MOXX | Jun 01 11:57 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is attacking ODF again | Jun 01 11:57 |
oiaohm | 1.2 draft spec has how to do them correctly for future. | Jun 01 11:57 |
oiaohm | MS is now trying to take the line they will not implement anything in a draft spec. | Jun 01 11:58 |
oiaohm | So meaning there producs will lag in support of like html5 features. | Jun 01 11:58 |
_Hicham_ | Internet Explorer won't support HTML5 features | Jun 01 11:59 |
_Hicham_ | vive dailymotion | Jun 01 11:59 |
oiaohm | And youtube | Jun 01 12:00 |
_Hicham_ | dailymotion will free the web of flash | Jun 01 12:00 |
oiaohm | And a lot more sites that can get out of risk of paying adobe in future. | Jun 01 12:00 |
_Hicham_ | will youtube use HTML5 features? | Jun 01 12:00 |
oiaohm | Yep there is already a test access to enter youtube on and avoid flash on almost everything played. | Jun 01 12:01 |
_Hicham_ | is it on the main page? | Jun 01 12:01 |
oiaohm | Google is going html5 in a big way. | Jun 01 12:01 |
_Goblin | Found myself a cracker on Twitter...he'll be up in a new article soon. | Jun 01 12:01 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : give me that test access url plz | Jun 01 12:02 |
DaemonFC | nobody will drive away 66% of their viewers | Jun 01 12:02 |
oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/html5 | Jun 01 12:02 |
_Goblin | A Media Student/Blockbuster staff member who has declared OSx as "trash" (and obviously thinks Vista is great) This one should be good. | Jun 01 12:02 |
oiaohm | There are still limiting stuff through it _Hicham_ | Jun 01 12:02 |
oiaohm | Plan will see flash by by. | Jun 01 12:03 |
oiaohm | Turns out it will save google downloads. | Jun 01 12:03 |
_Hicham_ | so Adobe's flash will just die? | Jun 01 12:04 |
oiaohm | Adobe flash will reduce back to protected content. | Jun 01 12:05 |
oiaohm | And maybe games. | Jun 01 12:05 |
_Hicham_ | games can be done in svg | Jun 01 12:05 |
oiaohm | Its more how fast can javascript run in a browser. | Jun 01 12:06 |
oiaohm | and download cost. | Jun 01 12:06 |
oiaohm | Bytecode encoded javascript Adobeflash has might come into its own for games. | Jun 01 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | Javascript is running faster with V8 and tracemonkey | Jun 01 12:06 |
oiaohm | Now if html6 has a javascript bytecode then Adobe flash will be restricted to 1 thing. | Jun 01 12:06 |
_Hicham_ | what is it? | Jun 01 12:07 |
oiaohm | Protected content is 1 thing html5 does not support at all. | Jun 01 12:07 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Starts Attacking the ODF Alliance, Sends Paid Wikipedia Editors to ODF Article < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/microsoft-attacks-odf-alliance/ > | Jun 01 12:08 |
schestowitz | ODF Alliance Newsletter: Ecuador Joins the Club < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/odf-ecuador-joins-the-club/ > | Jun 01 12:08 |
oiaohm | _Hicham_ but the bytecode might be undermided by html compression. | Jun 01 12:09 |
oiaohm | Basically until we get lots of stuff implemented with html5 we will not realy know how far flash has been pushed backwards. | Jun 01 12:10 |
_Hicham_ | we can add up some php thing in it | Jun 01 12:10 |
oiaohm | We know for sure its pushed backwards. How far magical question. | Jun 01 12:10 |
_Hicham_ | to protect content | Jun 01 12:11 |
oiaohm | No | Jun 01 12:11 |
oiaohm | Protect content might be able to be codec doable. | Jun 01 12:11 |
*lis` (n=lis@pub082136077010.dh-hfc.datazug.ch) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 01 12:11 | |
oiaohm | But there is no standard codec for that. | Jun 01 12:11 |
oiaohm | For html5 | Jun 01 12:11 |
oiaohm | In time there is no reason why flashs usefulness to everyone could not be completely nuked. It just will not be html5. | Jun 01 12:12 |
_Hicham_ | the standard codec is Theora | Jun 01 12:12 |
oiaohm | Theora is not a protected codec. Ie the bugger that everyone hates that stop you from coping it _Hicham_ | Jun 01 12:13 |
_Hicham_ | I know | Jun 01 12:13 |
_Hicham_ | copy protection is just a myth | Jun 01 12:13 |
_Hicham_ | you can copy everything | Jun 01 12:14 |
oiaohm | Not the way hdmi are planing. | Jun 01 12:14 |
oiaohm | Play back in screen. | Jun 01 12:14 |
oiaohm | No decoding in client computer. Its just a transfer point | Jun 01 12:15 |
_Hicham_ | like DRM'ed Windows Media? | Jun 01 12:16 |
*tacone (i=975056eb@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-70de100b4a1219df) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 01 12:17 | |
_Hicham_ | wb Senor tacone | Jun 01 12:19 |
tacone | hello | Jun 01 12:20 |
schestowitz | Bing runs Linux....... | Jun 01 12:21 |
schestowitz | The SE with the three nipples runs the commie code | Jun 01 12:22 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is slowly learning about search | Jun 01 12:23 |
schestowitz | Search one: don' t use toys like Windows. use a real O/S | Jun 01 12:23 |
schestowitz | But the incompetence will prevent the SE from making inroads | Jun 01 12:23 |
schestowitz | New article about how to remove Mono: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1090/ | Jun 01 12:24 |
_Hicham_ | can Mono be removed from openSUSE? | Jun 01 12:25 |
schestowitz | That's like asking if .NET can be removed from Vista | Jun 01 12:25 |
_Hicham_ | have u ever tried to? | Jun 01 12:27 |
_Hicham_ | there is no Mono libraries by default in Debian and Fedora | Jun 01 12:27 |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu is the only distro plagued by Mono | Jun 01 12:28 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: proof? | Jun 01 12:31 |
DaemonFC | http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=live.com | Jun 01 12:32 |
DaemonFC | Windows Server 2003 Microsoft-IIS/6.0 | Jun 01 12:32 |
DaemonFC | http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=bing.com | Jun 01 12:33 |
DaemonFC | F5 Big-IP unknown | Jun 01 12:33 |
schestowitz | "plagued.." | Jun 01 12:34 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.bing.com | Jun 01 12:34 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.15 Linux unknown 30-May-2009 | Jun 01 12:34 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.8 Linux unknown 28-May-2009 | Jun 01 12:34 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.9 Linux unknown 28-May-2009 | Jun 01 12:34 |
schestowitz | <schestowitz> ADSL endpoints NAT conections only 84.45.224.9 Linux unknown 27-May-2009 | Jun 01 12:34 |
tacone | uh ! it's live | Jun 01 12:35 |
*_Hicham_1 (n=hicham@wana-127-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 01 12:35 | |
tacone | no ! live.com doesn't exist anymore ! :(( | Jun 01 12:35 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 01 12:35 | |
*_Hicham_1 is now known as _Hicham_ | Jun 01 12:36 | |
tacone | it sucked so much it was sort of trash art. | Jun 01 12:36 |
tacone | bing is too much aggressive in displaying regional results | Jun 01 12:38 |
_Hicham_ | Microsoft uses akamai for its sensitive websites | Jun 01 12:40 |
_Hicham_ | they can't face the web with their servers | Jun 01 12:40 |
tacone | it's not akamai | Jun 01 12:40 |
tacone | it's about default settings. | Jun 01 12:40 |
tacone | i'm in italy so i get quite only italian pages | Jun 01 12:41 |
tacone | i had to set my location as US to get something relevant. | Jun 01 12:41 |
oiaohm | _Hicham_: Not like DRM Windows Media. That has decoding in client. Current plan looks like complete seperation. It even includes moving some 3d support into monitor. | Jun 01 12:41 |
_Hicham_ | 3d support into monitor? | Jun 01 12:42 |
schestowitz | Someone uses my name to spread spam now: http://dev.communityserver.com/members/schestowitz/default.aspx "Thu, May 28 2009" | Jun 01 12:43 |
oiaohm | Next version of hdmi includes some really strange features _Hicham_ | Jun 01 12:43 |
oiaohm | 3d in monitor 100 speed network connection from scren to client. | Jun 01 12:43 |
oiaohm | Basically monitor far more than a monitor _Hicham_. | Jun 01 12:44 |
oiaohm | So effectivelly playing back protected content computer might be acting no more than a rounter and told the screen where to draw it. | Jun 01 12:47 |
oiaohm | So far we have not been hit with the worse copy protection guys can design. _Hicham_ breaking something like this is the worst that can be made. | Jun 01 12:52 |
MinceR | geekings | Jun 01 13:02 |
DaemonFC | Akamai uses Linux | Jun 01 13:02 |
DaemonFC | they have for a while | Jun 01 13:02 |
DaemonFC | aren't they affiliated with Yahell? | Jun 01 13:02 |
oiaohm | Akamai always has. | Jun 01 13:03 |
DaemonFC | Bing is also buying Google Adwords | Jun 01 13:03 |
oiaohm | Ms pays them to cache lot of there servers. | Jun 01 13:03 |
oiaohm | Yes why its a joke when people say they don't use linux. | Jun 01 13:04 |
oiaohm | Windows updates come from Akamai mirrors running Linux. | Jun 01 13:04 |
fewa | so is HDMI still going to be compatible with DVI? | Jun 01 13:04 |
fewa | or are then EEEing it? | Jun 01 13:05 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jun 01 13:05 | |
tacone | schestowitz: http://www.osnews.com/story/21586/Mono_Moonlight_Patent_Encumbered_Or_Not_ | Jun 01 13:05 |
tacone | "Novell says that "Moonlight will be available for Linux users on any distribution". Microsoft, on the other hand, states something completely different: they state that only Novell and intermediate recipients may ship Moonlight. " | Jun 01 13:05 |
oiaohm | 1.2 HDMI has no mention of supporting DVI in the documenation I have read so far. fewa. Could have missed it. | Jun 01 13:05 |
fewa | cause original HDMI was just DVI + DRM | Jun 01 13:06 |
fewa | which is why I dont see the point at all | Jun 01 13:06 |
oiaohm | The new one is not just that fewa | Jun 01 13:06 |
oiaohm | Making HDMI link be a network cable as well is really a new twist. | Jun 01 13:07 |
fewa | but then they will add in the DHCP to that | Jun 01 13:07 |
fewa | ughhhh | Jun 01 13:07 |
fewa | *HDCP | Jun 01 13:07 |
*_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jun 01 13:08 | |
DaemonFC | discs still don't use the constraint token | Jun 01 13:08 |
oiaohm | Screen having a IP number is supported fewa. | Jun 01 13:09 |
fewa | ^^ i meant HDCP | Jun 01 13:09 |
schestowitz | http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13604&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=0c8ee146194f73fe2ddcec26643282c1&start=7 "Shields is only a side-show since he is clearly just channelling what he thinks to be true from De Icaza." | Jun 01 13:09 |
fewa | too much alphabet soup | Jun 01 13:10 |
oiaohm | So far implentation in screen in not covered. fewa | Jun 01 13:10 |
oiaohm | In theory with a net connection it could update from net. | Jun 01 13:10 |
oiaohm | Not having to be a fixed system like HDCP is. | Jun 01 13:10 |
fewa | putting DRM in networking protocols is a dangerous presedent that could lead to loss of network neutrality | Jun 01 13:10 |
oiaohm | Exactly the options the new hdmi are opening up worry me. | Jun 01 13:11 |
fewa | its like plugging in a TV and having the power company decide if it will let your device recieve power based on being SONY, panisonic, having paid your bbc licence, etc | Jun 01 13:11 |
fewa | as little as I like DRM, if it has to exist it must be at the application level, not the network layer | Jun 01 13:12 |
oiaohm | Problem is DRM makers know at the application level its a open target. | Jun 01 13:13 |
fewa | oiaohm, so they have to make the whole system a closed fense? | Jun 01 13:13 |
oiaohm | And open from complents that particular OS's are not supported. | Jun 01 13:13 |
oiaohm | Cures the people upset particular platforms are not supported. | Jun 01 13:14 |
oiaohm | Everyone is supported equally bad. | Jun 01 13:14 |
fewa | no, its implamented in a propritary frash firmware, its still closed | Jun 01 13:14 |
oiaohm | But any OS can use it will be there line. | Jun 01 13:15 |
fewa | its like intel with EFI, they just change the naming convention and call their OS a "BIOS" | Jun 01 13:15 |
oiaohm | I said from the start of DRM. Cracking it will not be a long term solution. | Jun 01 13:15 |
oiaohm | Sooner or latter it was going to move to hardware device protection properly done. | Jun 01 13:16 |
fewa | we need to change peoples opinion, make people realize that DRM is anti-competitive, and that it hurts consumers | Jun 01 13:16 |
fewa | And have proper labling of its limits | Jun 01 13:16 |
oiaohm | EFI was designed to remove over head of old style bios fireing up hardware for dos. | Jun 01 13:17 |
oiaohm | Basically doing lots of things Linux and Windows don't need done. | Jun 01 13:17 |
fewa | oiaohm, but it implaments a full OS and just calls it something differnt, while all production uses stuill run the BIOS compat | Jun 01 13:17 |
oiaohm | EFI can load a old bios | Jun 01 13:18 |
oiaohm | Then start dos. | Jun 01 13:18 |
fewa | just a wasteful layer | Jun 01 13:18 |
oiaohm | Old bios is a bigger wasteful layer. | Jun 01 13:18 |
fewa | coreboot is whats needed, 1 driver for boot and for the real system | Jun 01 13:18 |
oiaohm | EFI and coreboot were both implementations to reduce the overhead. | Jun 01 13:19 |
fewa | hmm | Jun 01 13:19 |
fewa | EFI seems to do way, way too much | Jun 01 13:19 |
oiaohm | EFI still went in the right direction. But a lot of people say they did not cut enough out. | Jun 01 13:20 |
oiaohm | It happens not all designs end up the best. | Jun 01 13:20 |
fewa | hmm, but doesn't EFI still have networking stacks and things? | Jun 01 13:21 |
oiaohm | EFI was designed before coreboot by the way. | Jun 01 13:22 |
oiaohm | First supporting OS of EFI was linux in 2000. | Jun 01 13:22 |
oiaohm | First production supporting OS. | Jun 01 13:23 |
fewa | yes | Jun 01 13:23 |
fewa | well i dont know as much as you | Jun 01 13:23 |
oiaohm | coreboot started in 1999 looking at what intel was doing with EFI and did better. | Jun 01 13:23 |
oiaohm | Evolutions of tech. | Jun 01 13:24 |
oiaohm | I love my history of things and it shows fewa | Jun 01 13:24 |
fewa | i was only 10 years old in 1999 :P | Jun 01 13:24 |
oiaohm | Remember this. There is no such thing as evil tech. Tech is a two sided sword. In the wrong hands its evil. But the evil comes from the person making it. | Jun 01 13:26 |
oiaohm | So you never saw the world before windows fewa? | Jun 01 13:29 |
fewa | nope | Jun 01 13:29 |
fewa | well, my dad was a macintosh person | Jun 01 13:29 |
oiaohm | So missed out on items like c64 mirobees and others. | Jun 01 13:29 |
oiaohm | When the computer world was fragmented. | Jun 01 13:29 |
oiaohm | In one way you did not have to see great tech die fewa. | Jun 01 13:30 |
fewa | its only getting better | Jun 01 13:30 |
fewa | but slowed heavily by microsoft | Jun 01 13:31 |
oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_2000 Really has not got better this had over 32 bit colour in 1986 | Jun 01 13:33 |
oiaohm | Tech advances stalled even went backwards for a few years as MS took over fewa. | Jun 01 13:33 |
schestowitz | You mean on desktops? | Jun 01 13:34 |
schestowitz | Tech progress in all other sreas. | Jun 01 13:34 |
schestowitz | *areas | Jun 01 13:34 |
schestowitz | Internet too | Jun 01 13:34 |
schestowitz | With Netscape for example | Jun 01 13:34 |
schestowitz | Then IE had innovation on the Web frozen too | Jun 01 13:35 |
fewa | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Jun 01 13:35 |
fewa | A stable platform was what users got, but it came at the cost of stagnation | Jun 01 13:36 |
DaemonFC | Netscape was frankly a pile of crap | Jun 01 13:36 |
DaemonFC | and they did their fair share of standards mutilation | Jun 01 13:36 |
DaemonFC | lest we forget | Jun 01 13:36 |
oiaohm | Netscape worst invention was the blink tag. | Jun 01 13:37 |
fewa | ^ | Jun 01 13:37 |
*DaemonFC beats schestowitz with an innovative <blink> tag and the JSS to CSS convertor that had to be thrown in at the last minute when it was obvious that JSS was not going to e standardized | Jun 01 13:38 | |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 13:38 |
oiaohm | There was a difference between netscape and MS. Netscape tried to upstream all there alterations. | Jun 01 13:38 |
oiaohm | Into the offical standard. | Jun 01 13:38 |
fewa | but VBscript and all that shit | Jun 01 13:38 |
DaemonFC | Netscape was bullshit | Jun 01 13:38 |
DaemonFC | especially with version 4 | Jun 01 13:38 |
oiaohm | MS did there normal lets disreguard the standard and not try to upsteam anything. | Jun 01 13:38 |
DaemonFC | IE got popular because IE 5 was less crap than Netscape | Jun 01 13:38 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft has upstreamed quite a bit | Jun 01 13:39 |
DaemonFC | not everything, but then again, neither did Netscape | Jun 01 13:39 |
DaemonFC | Netscape only "embraced" open source after they had already lost | Jun 01 13:39 |
DaemonFC | kind of like Sun | Jun 01 13:39 |
fewa | ^only as much as they had to, like every other propritary vendor | Jun 01 13:39 |
oiaohm | Netscape had embraced w3c.org early one DaemonFC. | Jun 01 13:39 |
oiaohm | Yes not everything netscape did got approved for standard include. | Jun 01 13:40 |
oiaohm | But that is to be expected. | Jun 01 13:40 |
DaemonFC | no they didn't | Jun 01 13:40 |
DaemonFC | Netscape was trying to be incompatible with standards from the beginning | Jun 01 13:41 |
DaemonFC | then incompatible with standards AND Internet Explorer | Jun 01 13:41 |
schestowitz | Proof, please,.. | Jun 01 13:41 |
DaemonFC | then just too old to even bother with as well | Jun 01 13:41 |
schestowitz | There won't be the MS revisonism here | Jun 01 13:41 |
fewa | its the economic fallacy of software, you are only as valuable as switching costs | Jun 01 13:41 |
DaemonFC | there's no revisionism | Jun 01 13:41 |
fewa | thats why free software is superior | Jun 01 13:41 |
DaemonFC | Netscape 4 was incomplete, slow, buggy, and non-standard | Jun 01 13:42 |
schestowitz | Slow? | Jun 01 13:42 |
schestowitz | Why was that? | Jun 01 13:42 |
DaemonFC | lots of reasons | Jun 01 13:42 |
schestowitz | Did Microsoft do some API magic? | Jun 01 13:42 |
schestowitz | You're spewing FUD/rubbish | Jun 01 13:42 |
schestowitz | I end it here. | Jun 01 13:42 |
DaemonFC | horrible scripting engine | Jun 01 13:42 |
DaemonFC | slow customized Java | Jun 01 13:42 |
fewa | DaemonFC, you are absolutely right, but realize that Microsoft only made progress on programs when it was critically important to continue their dominence of computing | Jun 01 13:42 |
DaemonFC | no, their scripting engine was painful | Jun 01 13:43 |
DaemonFC | god awful | Jun 01 13:43 |
DaemonFC | they finally tried to make up their own DHTML dialect that nobody ever used | Jun 01 13:43 |
DaemonFC | that was mildly hilarious | Jun 01 13:43 |
DaemonFC | and if you disabled scripts, you also lost CSS, what little of CSS it actually supported | Jun 01 13:44 |
DaemonFC | because it had to convert them to the never-used JSS | Jun 01 13:44 |
DaemonFC | then render them | Jun 01 13:44 |
DaemonFC | oh, and if you resize the browser at all the entire page reloaded | Jun 01 13:44 |
DaemonFC | because it couldn't redraw | Jun 01 13:45 |
DaemonFC | that was always fun | Jun 01 13:45 |
fewa | then the bazarr won and mozilla was born | Jun 01 13:45 |
DaemonFC | there was like 4 years between Netscape being unusable and Mozilla releasing a 1.0 | Jun 01 13:45 |
DaemonFC | IE caught on in the vacuum in between | Jun 01 13:45 |
fewa | and then microsoft stopped doing any work on it | Jun 01 13:46 |
DaemonFC | yeah, setting the stage for IE to die off | Jun 01 13:46 |
DaemonFC | all they've managed to do since IE 7 was copy Firefox | Jun 01 13:46 |
DaemonFC | poorly | Jun 01 13:46 |
fewa | but also holding onto the microsoft monopoly, and STILL corporate users are stuck onto "web" activeX | Jun 01 13:47 |
DaemonFC | but my point was that IE 5 caught on because it sucked much less than Netscape 4 | Jun 01 13:47 |
DaemonFC | and because it took Mozilla so long to release anything that was suitable for day to day use | Jun 01 13:47 |
oiaohm | Again it depended where. Up until 2000 there were a lot of sites that were IE only or Netscape only. | Jun 01 13:48 |
DaemonFC | Opera was shareware and $40 at the time | Jun 01 13:48 |
DaemonFC | Safari didn't exist | Jun 01 13:48 |
DaemonFC | so IE was really all you could use on Windows | Jun 01 13:49 |
oiaohm | That made web surfing hell. | Jun 01 13:49 |
oiaohm | Having to swap browsers to get stuff done. | Jun 01 13:49 |
fewa | and made Microsoft all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ | Jun 01 13:49 |
fewa | its strategy people | Jun 01 13:49 |
DaemonFC | yes, because MS no longer had to do anything to improve IE | Jun 01 13:49 |
DaemonFC | because there was nothing else | Jun 01 13:49 |
fewa | because they killed netscape with all the dirty tricks they could | Jun 01 13:49 |
oiaohm | Major tatical blunder. | Jun 01 13:50 |
DaemonFC | Netscape and IE were both bad | Jun 01 13:50 |
oiaohm | Droping work on IE. | Jun 01 13:50 |
fewa | but netscape would have improved in a open market | Jun 01 13:50 |
DaemonFC | well, I'd say that by taking out Netscape, Microsoft unintentionally set the stage for an open web | Jun 01 13:50 |
fewa | but free software was better | Jun 01 13:50 |
fewa | ^^^your probably right | Jun 01 13:50 |
DaemonFC | otherwise the Netscape/IE competition could have dragged on | Jun 01 13:50 |
oiaohm | 2000 intel was also screaming in MS ear to support particuar features so there chip designers could use windows too. | Jun 01 13:50 |
DaemonFC | with both of them inventing web technologies as they went | Jun 01 13:50 |
fewa | wouldnt have done anything useful | Jun 01 13:51 |
oiaohm | Another big mistake of MS was saying no to intel the hardware marker who had made them. | Jun 01 13:51 |
fewa | A monoculture of microsoft, Before any real DRM shit was good stuff then? | Jun 01 13:51 |
DaemonFC | Firefox, Safari, and Opera are only well behaved because none of them have the weight to throw around like that | Jun 01 13:51 |
DaemonFC | they're all too small to just invent precisely whatever they want that won't work anywhere else | Jun 01 13:52 |
fewa | monoculture actually fights DRM, as only one vendor then supports it | Jun 01 13:52 |
oiaohm | monoculture is bad no matter who has it. | Jun 01 13:52 |
fewa | change is good | Jun 01 13:53 |
DaemonFC | WMDRM actually ships updates not only as part of Windows Media Player upgrades, but within the DRM'd content sometimes | Jun 01 13:53 |
DaemonFC | so they can revoke compromised versions | Jun 01 13:53 |
DaemonFC | it's actually fairly nasty to break it and keep it cracked | Jun 01 13:54 |
DaemonFC | so like if I have Napster or something, it can push a WMDRM update without telling me | Jun 01 13:54 |
fewa | thats why you use linux | Jun 01 13:55 |
DaemonFC | and suddenly my DRM bypass method doesn't work anymore | Jun 01 13:55 |
oiaohm | What will happen if cracking DRM requires disasmbling monitor DaemonFC. You can defeat it now. Future designs will get harder. | Jun 01 13:55 |
DaemonFC | I just avoid DRM or strip it out when I can't avoid it | Jun 01 13:56 |
fewa | anyone know the IP/dns name fo the windows spyware servers? | Jun 01 13:56 |
fewa | ive asked in many places and never get a real response | Jun 01 13:56 |
DaemonFC | so that means that you can't watch the file on Linux | Jun 01 13:56 |
fewa | so i can route then to a black hole | Jun 01 13:56 |
DaemonFC | or that the DRM will affect you even if you use Linux | Jun 01 13:56 |
DaemonFC | because the file is just sent to the monitor | Jun 01 13:56 |
DaemonFC | so what you're talking about is cross platform DRM | Jun 01 13:56 |
fewa | DaemonFC, meh, its only used lamely and generally is even broken on windows, such as bloomberg | Jun 01 13:57 |
DaemonFC | so buckle up, DRM is coming to a Linux near you | Jun 01 13:57 |
DaemonFC | if what you're saying actually happens | Jun 01 13:57 |
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oiaohm | I hope by the time the hardware is released there is no real demard for this kind of strict DRM DaemonFC | Jun 01 13:58 |
DaemonFC | these companies have always been looking for DRM that was harder to crack and platform independent | Jun 01 13:58 |
oiaohm | Only users can make that happen. | Jun 01 13:58 |
DaemonFC | what are you going to do? Not buy a monitor? | Jun 01 13:59 |
DaemonFC | Not watch movies? | Jun 01 13:59 |
fewa | oiaohm, i perfectly agree | Jun 01 13:59 |
oiaohm | If there is no market for DRM protected contect because users will not buy it why does monitor need the feature. | Jun 01 13:59 |
fewa | heavily DRMed content will meet the same fate as closed source software, it will stagnate | Jun 01 13:59 |
DaemonFC | anyway, that kind of equipment would make monitors a lot more expensive I'm sure | Jun 01 13:59 |
oiaohm | 20 dollars max DaemonFC | Jun 01 14:00 |
DaemonFC | no, cause now you need CPU and RAM to decode it | Jun 01 14:00 |
DaemonFC | and an ethernet port | Jun 01 14:00 |
oiaohm | Yep that is CPU and ram. | Jun 01 14:00 |
oiaohm | And ethernet controller | Jun 01 14:00 |
DaemonFC | that is going to crank the proce of the monitor | Jun 01 14:00 |
fewa | DRM is the worse part of fast computers | Jun 01 14:00 |
oiaohm | All in a single chip DaemonFC | Jun 01 14:00 |
DaemonFC | *price | Jun 01 14:00 |
oiaohm | 20 dollars. | Jun 01 14:01 |
oiaohm | USD | Jun 01 14:01 |
DaemonFC | you won't get it that cheap | Jun 01 14:01 |
oiaohm | Not much. | Jun 01 14:01 |
DaemonFC | it takes a lot to decode an HD MPEG-2 stream, and much more than that if it's encrpyted | Jun 01 14:01 |
DaemonFC | first gen HD-DVD players had to use a 3 Ghz Pentium 4 and a gig of RAM | Jun 01 14:01 |
oiaohm | Depends on the type of cpu. | Jun 01 14:02 |
oiaohm | Pentiums are complete crap for decoding it. | Jun 01 14:02 |
oiaohm | Not enough threads. | Jun 01 14:02 |
DaemonFC | shy do you think the players are so huge? | Jun 01 14:02 |
DaemonFC | they essentially are a computer | Jun 01 14:02 |
fewa | burning excessive watts | Jun 01 14:03 |
fewa | doing a useless dance | Jun 01 14:03 |
oiaohm | You gpu is far more effective at doing it by the way DaemonFC you only need a 500 mhz cpu with a 250 mhz gpu to play HD-DVD | Jun 01 14:03 |
oiaohm | Fire gen HD-DVD players were using wrong style of chip. | Jun 01 14:04 |
oiaohm | first gen | Jun 01 14:04 |
DaemonFC | well, anyone that buys a first gen anything is an idiot with too much money | Jun 01 14:04 |
DaemonFC | buying a substandard product | Jun 01 14:05 |
DaemonFC | HD-DVD was using VC-1 though wasn't it? | Jun 01 14:05 |
DaemonFC | That's basically WMV-HD | Jun 01 14:05 |
DaemonFC | under a different name | Jun 01 14:05 |
fewa | entertainent stuff is always priced way too high until it becomes standard too | Jun 01 14:05 |
oiaohm | VC-1 decide in video cards with very little load. | Jun 01 14:06 |
fewa | mark ups on TVs are astronomical | Jun 01 14:06 |
oiaohm | Its simply having enough threads to handle it well. | Jun 01 14:06 |
schestowitz | http://lwn.net/Articles/333825/ | Jun 01 14:08 |
schestowitz | 'James Morris notes Linus Torvalds's famous "Flame Linus to a crisp!" message wherein he says: "I want to make it clear that DRM is perfectly ok with Linux!".' | Jun 01 14:08 |
schestowitz | From Ts'o | Jun 01 14:09 |
schestowitz | If they went the way of TC and DRM, that could promote HURD | Jun 01 14:09 |
schestowitz | Or lead to another flame war | Jun 01 14:09 |
MinceR | when did money become more important than users? | Jun 01 14:10 |
MinceR | and freedom? | Jun 01 14:10 |
DaemonFC | http://edskes.net/ie8overflowandexpandingboxbugs.htm | Jun 01 14:11 |
DaemonFC | since always | Jun 01 14:11 |
schestowitz | MinceR: ask Ted | Jun 01 14:15 |
schestowitz | He works for IBM | Jun 01 14:16 |
schestowitz | It figures | Jun 01 14:16 |
fewa | schestowitz, people would use BSD instead of HURD | Jun 01 14:16 |
MinceR | or so would the frustrated *bsd fanboys wish. | Jun 01 14:16 |
fewa | or they would fork linux | Jun 01 14:16 |
MinceR | now that's more likely. | Jun 01 14:16 |
schestowitz | Maybe HURD can be combined with Linux? | Jun 01 14:17 |
schestowitz | if so, to what extent? | Jun 01 14:17 |
fewa | but with the way linux is developed it may even be a compile time option | Jun 01 14:17 |
fewa | schestowitz, HURD and BSD use the linux driver model | Jun 01 14:17 |
schestowitz | And can GPLv2ed code be made GPLv3? I think not | Jun 01 14:17 |
MinceR | CONFIG_TAKE_MY_RIGHTS_AWAY? | Jun 01 14:18 |
fewa | :P | Jun 01 14:18 |
fewa | schestowitz, thats why we have to promote GPL3 stuff | Jun 01 14:18 |
MinceR | schestowitz: not if it's licensed as GPLv2 only | Jun 01 14:18 |
fewa | i think linus could get away with a relicence, but noone else | Jun 01 14:18 |
fewa | most is GPL2+ | Jun 01 14:18 |
MinceR | but it's possible that at least part of the developers would move to the fork and be willing to relicense | Jun 01 14:19 |
fewa | linus is main holder on GPL2 only | Jun 01 14:19 |
fewa | and corporate contributers | Jun 01 14:19 |
MinceR | a rewrite is still possible | Jun 01 14:19 |
fewa | a large amount of GPL3 code is the best tool to get it to relicence | Jun 01 14:20 |
MinceR | indeed | Jun 01 14:21 |
fewa | and what linux distros dont have GPL3? android, what else? | Jun 01 14:21 |
MinceR | i wouldn't call android a linux distro | Jun 01 14:24 |
tacone | schestowitz: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/disinformation-disinfected-pt-2-the-false-dilemma/ | Jun 01 14:24 |
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schestowitz | It's better never to fork | Jun 01 14:33 |
schestowitz | Just more confusion | Jun 01 14:33 |
schestowitz | Preferable to negotiate | Jun 01 14:33 |
oiaohm | There are times when forks are required. | Jun 01 14:34 |
schestowitz | And knock sense into IBM by showing them backlash | Jun 01 14:34 |
oiaohm | But there are lot of times when they are done incorrectly. | Jun 01 14:34 |
schestowitz | If IBM and others see resentment against them due to DRM (like Nokia), they'll hold back | Jun 01 14:34 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: better to branch maybe | Jun 01 14:34 |
schestowitz | Think about the goal | Jun 01 14:34 |
oiaohm | Forks are for when negotiation break down. | Jun 01 14:35 |
oiaohm | Due to path being too far different. | Jun 01 14:35 |
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oiaohm | Problem with distributions unlike most package forks that intime merge they don't have that yet. | Jun 01 14:36 |
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Cappella | !help | Jun 01 14:36 |
oiaohm | Forking and Merging are required cycles for open source to work well schestowitz. | Jun 01 14:36 |
Cappella | hi | Jun 01 14:36 |
oiaohm | Hi Cappella | Jun 01 14:36 |
oiaohm | No bot in here that answers anything. | Jun 01 14:36 |
Cappella | hi oiaohm, just like to check, how can i submit news to boycottnovell? :) | Jun 01 14:37 |
Cappella | i have written a little something to share with boycotnovell | Jun 01 14:37 |
oiaohm | That is schestowitz department Cappella | Jun 01 14:37 |
Cappella | oh ... | Jun 01 14:37 |
fewa | pastebin | Jun 01 14:37 |
Cappella | pastebin? | Jun 01 14:38 |
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oiaohm | schestowitz: Ping Cappella | Jun 01 14:38 |
schestowitz | yes, pastebin would be good | Jun 01 14:39 |
schestowitz | Or mail me on roy @ schestowitz.com | Jun 01 14:39 |
Cappella | sorry, how does pastebin works? | Jun 01 14:39 |
schestowitz | Mail it to me, I'll post it | Jun 01 14:39 |
Cappella | ohhhh ... ok ok ... email seems more straightforward | Jun 01 14:39 |
Cappella | ok thanks. | Jun 01 14:39 |
Cappella | doing that now. | Jun 01 14:39 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: I've just mailed rms about the DRM thing | Jun 01 14:39 |
fewa | schestowitz, which one? | Jun 01 14:40 |
schestowitz | Ts'o | Jun 01 14:41 |
schestowitz | Microsoft still conspires with Hollywood | Jun 01 14:42 |
schestowitz | Just look at Zune | Jun 01 14:42 |
fewa | ahh yes thats been around | Jun 01 14:42 |
schestowitz | DRM copy inside the gadget... | Jun 01 14:42 |
fewa | lol zune | Jun 01 14:42 |
fewa | zune violates the creative commons licence | Jun 01 14:42 |
schestowitz | They hope Hollywood will help them fight the #1 rival | Jun 01 14:42 |
schestowitz | --Linux | Jun 01 14:42 |
schestowitz | As BillG put it, "security as a lockin" | Jun 01 14:42 |
fewa | http://medialoper.com/hot-topics/music/zunes-big-innovation-viral-drm/ | Jun 01 14:43 |
schestowitz | MS does a lot of viral things | Jun 01 14:43 |
schestowitz | I think of terms of diseases | Jun 01 14:43 |
fewa | someone should put it in the wikipedia article | Jun 01 14:43 |
schestowitz | http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/ballmer-media-person-of-the-year-2009/ | Jun 01 14:43 |
schestowitz | "Sure, the award reflects the great public attention Microsoft received with its viral marketing star Ballmer and the Seinfeld-Gates advertisement campaign." | Jun 01 14:43 |
Cappella | schestowitz: OK, emailed you the scoop, done by me. | Jun 01 14:44 |
fewa | developers developers developers developers developers developers developers | Jun 01 14:44 |
DaemonFC | uggh | Jun 01 14:45 |
DaemonFC | ClamWin's website is advertising for Spyware | Jun 01 14:45 |
DaemonFC | through Google Ads | Jun 01 14:45 |
fewa | http://www.google-watch.org/evilgoo.html | Jun 01 14:45 |
fewa | http://www.google-watch.org/drugnews.html | Jun 01 14:46 |
schestowitz | Cappella: can I use the images, pls? | Jun 01 14:46 |
Cappella | yes sure! | Jun 01 14:46 |
Cappella | u need the original size? I can DCC send you. | Jun 01 14:47 |
fewa | schestowitz, re: bailout http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=postconsumer_prosperity | Jun 01 14:49 |
schestowitz | Cappella: it's OK | Jun 01 14:52 |
schestowitz | Hold on a minute.. | Jun 01 14:52 |
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schestowitz | OK, done. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/bing-against-google/ (Reader’s Article: Bing Against Google) | Jun 01 14:55 |
Cappella | heh, ok! hope you find it useful. | Jun 01 14:56 |
schestowitz | Little update: "One of the admins of that site (or the one admin) told me that someone from linsux.org claims to be behind the DDoS attacks on us (lasted for almost 2 weeks)." | Jun 01 14:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Who_are_linsux_org_and_what_do_they_want | Jun 01 14:59 |
schestowitz | The anti-Linux crowd is attacking BN | Jun 01 14:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Boycott_Novell_Fight_FUD_with_Fun | Jun 01 15:03 |
schestowitz | Source of the DDoS as well | Jun 01 15:04 |
DaemonFC | http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2009/05/04/ubuntu-904-jaunty-jackalope-upgrade-graphics-problem.html | Jun 01 15:05 |
fewa | nvidia works wine with jaunty | Jun 01 15:05 |
fewa | but they really should switch to the neuvo driver like fedora | Jun 01 15:06 |
schestowitz | Freudian slip/ | Jun 01 15:06 |
schestowitz | Wine/fine? | Jun 01 15:06 |
fewa | yes | Jun 01 15:07 |
fewa | quite approiate as a freudian slip :P | Jun 01 15:07 |
schestowitz | Well, eine is fine | Jun 01 15:07 |
schestowitz | *wine | Jun 01 15:07 |
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_Hicham_ | oiaohm : still here? | Jun 01 15:08 |
oiaohm | Yep _Hicham_ | Jun 01 15:10 |
_Hicham_ | if 3d is moved partially to the monitor, we can have really great performance | Jun 01 15:10 |
fewa | WHAT? | Jun 01 15:11 |
DaemonFC | "How about taking a good look at the self-citing, highly skitzophrenic bullshit dispenser you praise so highly? Shitzforwitz has that golden touch of turning things around in the most horrible of ways. Service pack breaks third-party ODF support? Third party? No shit. Perhaps if the Sun devs working on the importer would have closely worked to fix the issue, it wouldn't be such a big deal." | Jun 01 15:11 |
DaemonFC | http://linsux.org/index.php/topic,1096.msg10500.html#msg10500 | Jun 01 15:11 |
oiaohm | Its a way of reducing transfers _Hicham_ | Jun 01 15:12 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft does hand out tech previews of service packs | Jun 01 15:12 |
DaemonFC | Sun probably had a full 2 months or more to fix that | Jun 01 15:13 |
DaemonFC | but then, it's Sun | Jun 01 15:13 |
_Hicham_ | it is Oracle | Jun 01 15:13 |
DaemonFC | pleh | Jun 01 15:13 |
fewa | <_Hicham_> if 3d is moved partially to the monitor, we can have really great performance | Jun 01 15:13 |
fewa | explain | Jun 01 15:13 |
MinceR | sun.com still says they're functioning independently | Jun 01 15:13 |
DaemonFC | yeah, cause upper management sold the company in a minight backalley fire sale | Jun 01 15:14 |
fewa | why does it make a shits of difference weather the hardware is in a video card or the video card is strapped to a lcd display? | Jun 01 15:14 |
DaemonFC | and the shareholders can still vote to reverse it | Jun 01 15:14 |
"DaemonFC: no, I can't just send an odt file to someone and expect them to download another office suite to open it" LOL, instead you send them a docx and expect them to change buy a whole OS and Office program that cost close to $800. | Jun 01 15:14 | |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 01 15:14 |
DaemonFC | Person A sends me a docx, I edit it, plain OpenOffice can only save it to odt | Jun 01 15:15 |
_Hicham_ | fewa : it is not that the video card is placed in an lcd display | Jun 01 15:15 |
DaemonFC | this is a problem since they probably want a docx back | Jun 01 15:15 |
DaemonFC | example 2 | Jun 01 15:15 |
fewa | _Hicham_, what cant DVI do? | Jun 01 15:15 |
_Hicham_ | as oiaohm said, it is a way of reducing transfers between video card and the monitor | Jun 01 15:15 |
DaemonFC | Some organizations only accept Microsoft formats | Jun 01 15:15 |
DaemonFC | scratch that | Jun 01 15:15 |
DaemonFC | MOST only accept Microsoft formats | Jun 01 15:16 |
fewa | _Hicham_, are you just trying to get in DRM? | Jun 01 15:16 |
_Hicham_ | fewa : no | Jun 01 15:16 |
fewa | i thought DVI was pretty good at that | Jun 01 15:16 |
oiaohm | Its part of what is being done with hdmi 1.4 http://www.design-reuse.com/news/20774/hdmi-specification-version-1-4.html | Jun 01 15:16 |
fewa | it sure is clear on my passive screen | Jun 01 15:16 |
_Hicham_ | but the DRM problem is still here | Jun 01 15:16 |
oiaohm | DVI is only a display protocal fewa | Jun 01 15:17 |
DaemonFC | so in the end it's less trouble to just get something that writes to docx than to convince a bajillon people to download some 200 megabyte setup file and install OpenOffice | Jun 01 15:17 |
DaemonFC | just to accomodate me | Jun 01 15:17 |
oiaohm | Does not require the monitor to be smart. | Jun 01 15:17 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : you are repeating the same story since 5 hours | Jun 01 15:17 |
fewa | thats why they are moving it to the monitor, because then they can reduce wholly inefficient DRM protocols by casting it together | Jun 01 15:17 |
DaemonFC | well, maybe if twathead would stop provoking me | Jun 01 15:18 |
oiaohm | And the result is the same we write a docx in 6 months time you will complain you cannot open it DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:18 |
DaemonFC | just a thought | Jun 01 15:18 |
oiaohm | We are better to give people like you pdf files. | Jun 01 15:18 |
oiaohm | And you lose you means to edit. | Jun 01 15:18 |
oiaohm | That way you cannot complain about documents that don't open. | Jun 01 15:18 |
_Hicham_ | you can edit pdfs in OpenOffice? | Jun 01 15:18 |
_Hicham_ | sure | Jun 01 15:18 |
oiaohm | Not perfectly. | Jun 01 15:18 |
_Hicham_ | most of them | Jun 01 15:19 |
oiaohm | If you embed a odf doc in the pdf you can. | Jun 01 15:19 |
fewa | really? i just got some shitty old program to be able to add to pdf | Jun 01 15:19 |
fewa | otherwise you cant change shit | Jun 01 15:19 |
_Hicham_ | not necessarily oiaohm | Jun 01 15:19 |
DaemonFC | either way, giving odf or pdf just creates problems | Jun 01 15:19 |
oiaohm | If you want perfect editing _Hicham_ | Jun 01 15:19 |
DaemonFC | cause then no matter what, they have a file that will be difficult to edit | Jun 01 15:19 |
_Hicham_ | fewa : there pdf extension for open office | Jun 01 15:19 |
oiaohm | pdf with embed odf you are giving them both. | Jun 01 15:20 |
DaemonFC | without getting hundreds of megs of additional software | Jun 01 15:20 |
oiaohm | In 1 file DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:20 |
fewa | DaemonFC, what problems? they can just download openoffice.org if they have to | Jun 01 15:20 |
oiaohm | If they have too poor of a tool to edit it there end it there problem DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:20 |
_Hicham_ | or he can save it in doc format | Jun 01 15:20 |
DaemonFC | I'm not going to be a Nazi and tell someone to download some incredibly huge programs just to suit me | Jun 01 15:20 |
DaemonFC | it's not an argument worth fighting | Jun 01 15:20 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: if you left the channel, nobody would "provoke" you anymore. | Jun 01 15:20 |
fewa | DaemonFC, im not going to be a nazi and support a inferior closed format | Jun 01 15:20 |
MinceR | hint hint | Jun 01 15:20 |
oiaohm | and pdf + Odf hybred is approved for long term archiving. | Jun 01 15:21 |
oiaohm | So I don't have to have a double up of file my end. | Jun 01 15:21 |
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DaemonFC | it's a lot easier to just edit the docx and send it back to them | Jun 01 15:21 |
oiaohm | get back asking for docx support when it approved for long term archiving. | Jun 01 15:21 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC loves to be fucked by Microsoft | Jun 01 15:21 |
fewa | ^ | Jun 01 15:21 |
oiaohm | Until then its a waste of time and space for me DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:21 |
DaemonFC | no, odf is no good if they don't accept it | Jun 01 15:22 |
oiaohm | The line is not movable any company that does a archiving assessment is not going to ever send you a docx until it approvable. | Jun 01 15:22 |
oiaohm | They accept PDF. | Jun 01 15:22 |
oiaohm | Its a archive format. | Jun 01 15:22 |
DaemonFC | they're not going to go changing their policy because I won't send them the files they use | Jun 01 15:22 |
fewa | its a universal format | Jun 01 15:23 |
oiaohm | They accept .doc that is partly approved for arcivinal. | Jun 01 15:23 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC is a universal troll | Jun 01 15:23 |
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fewa | DaemonFC needs to leave | Jun 01 15:23 |
oiaohm | Note .docx is not even partly approved for arcivial. | Jun 01 15:23 |
DaemonFC | http://cms.bsu.edu/About/AdministrativeOffices/ComputerStore/Products/Software/MicrosoftSoftware.aspx | Jun 01 15:23 |
oiaohm | So its a waste of time producing it. | Jun 01 15:24 |
fewa | DaemonFC is arguing a straw man | Jun 01 15:24 |
oiaohm | People with 2003 cannot open it either. | Jun 01 15:24 |
oiaohm | That makes up most of the market of users by the way. | Jun 01 15:24 |
DaemonFC | they use docx | Jun 01 15:24 |
DaemonFC | I can either use docx or docx | Jun 01 15:24 |
DaemonFC | or even docx | Jun 01 15:24 |
oiaohm | 2007 docx cannot open in 2003. | Jun 01 15:24 |
DaemonFC | so long as I use docx | Jun 01 15:24 |
oiaohm | Correctly. | Jun 01 15:24 |
oiaohm | MS screwed the format. | Jun 01 15:25 |
fewa | not even microsoft users use docx | Jun 01 15:25 |
DaemonFC | well, you know, if they say send docx, I send docx | Jun 01 15:25 |
fewa | DaemonFC, where is your argument | Jun 01 15:25 |
oiaohm | And I have none out of 500 companies that will touch with a 10 foot barge pole. | Jun 01 15:26 |
MinceR | he has none | Jun 01 15:26 |
_Hicham_ | I don't see where is the problem | Jun 01 15:26 |
_Hicham_ | use MS Office | Jun 01 15:26 |
oiaohm | To be correct there email server send them back with error message DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:26 |
_Hicham_ | who is stopping u Mr DaemonFC? | Jun 01 15:26 |
oiaohm | docx does not get past the door because its not archivable. | Jun 01 15:26 |
oiaohm | Yell at people to support stuff will not happeen DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:27 |
oiaohm | Fix the issues then it will get supported. | Jun 01 15:27 |
oiaohm | O that is right you are not MS so you cannot fix the issues DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:27 |
DaemonFC | my argument is that odf is unacceptable | Jun 01 15:27 |
DaemonFC | because they won't take it | Jun 01 15:27 |
fewa | DaemonFC, who? | Jun 01 15:28 |
oiaohm | To late DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:28 |
oiaohm | Every major achive storage demards it. | Jun 01 15:28 |
DaemonFC | any office on campus | Jun 01 15:28 |
DaemonFC | odf is useless there | Jun 01 15:28 |
oiaohm | So you have a back water. | Jun 01 15:28 |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 01 15:28 |
oiaohm | Yes you do. | Jun 01 15:28 |
fewa | DaemonFC, you do | Jun 01 15:28 |
DaemonFC | no university in the state accepts non-MS formats | Jun 01 15:29 |
oiaohm | IF they accept .docx its a backwater | Jun 01 15:29 |
DaemonFC | not even Rose HUlman | Jun 01 15:29 |
oiaohm | Of incompetnet staff. | Jun 01 15:29 |
oiaohm | Any true assement of the archival state of ooxml would tell you that is cannot be used. | Jun 01 15:29 |
DaemonFC | Rose Hulman teaches some Red Hat classes I think | Jun 01 15:29 |
DaemonFC | Novell stuff too | Jun 01 15:30 |
oiaohm | That does not matter. | Jun 01 15:30 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, mind control tends to have that affect..only through time and education does it 'wear off' :) | Jun 01 15:30 |
oiaohm | If you don't run long term storage correctly you suffer for it sooner or later DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:30 |
DaemonFC | I don't really care what happens to the format 5-10 years from now | Jun 01 15:30 |
oiaohm | Remember I said .doc not .docx was partly approved. | Jun 01 15:30 |
DaemonFC | it works now | Jun 01 15:30 |
oiaohm | So you are not a business that will last DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:31 |
fewa | DaemonFC, then live in your little locked in world, noones stopping you | Jun 01 15:31 |
oiaohm | For tax reasons you have to keep records longer than 5 years. | Jun 01 15:31 |
oiaohm | For business reasons too. | Jun 01 15:31 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I just e-file it | Jun 01 15:31 |
oiaohm | You cannot afford them not accessable. | Jun 01 15:31 |
DaemonFC | the IRS has copies of all of that | Jun 01 15:31 |
oiaohm | Contracts deals...? | Jun 01 15:32 |
oiaohm | So if someone disputes you can produce the paper work. | Jun 01 15:32 |
oiaohm | Without major headaches. | Jun 01 15:32 |
DaemonFC | yeah, hard copies | Jun 01 15:32 |
oiaohm | You know the one problem with hard copies. | Jun 01 15:32 |
oiaohm | You cannot search massive numbers of them quicky. | Jun 01 15:32 |
DaemonFC | that they don't disappear cause the hard drive crashed or the disc won't read? | Jun 01 15:32 |
DaemonFC | clever that | Jun 01 15:33 |
oiaohm | That is part of archive control to prevent that DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:33 |
fewa | obvious troll is obvious | Jun 01 15:33 |
DaemonFC | besides, Office 2010 will no doubt convert your Office 2007 files the first time you open and save them | Jun 01 15:33 |
oiaohm | LOL. | Jun 01 15:34 |
oiaohm | Did that happen correctly with 2003 to 2007 or 2000 to 2003 for all documents. | Jun 01 15:34 |
DaemonFC | I have documents that started out in Office XP actually | Jun 01 15:34 |
oiaohm | To be correct 2003 to 2007 you end up using openoffice to do some of the conversions. | Jun 01 15:35 |
DaemonFC | hell, I think I have some that go back to Office 95 | Jun 01 15:35 |
_Hicham_ | as if DaemonFC is a big writer | Jun 01 15:35 |
oiaohm | I guess you are not talking in the 10 000 documents rage. | Jun 01 15:35 |
_Hicham_ | how many documents do u have? | Jun 01 15:35 |
_Hicham_ | 1? | Jun 01 15:35 |
oiaohm | Let alone 200 000 | Jun 01 15:35 |
DaemonFC | well, I do back them up | Jun 01 15:36 |
oiaohm | Biggest I have is a law firm that are in the many millions. | Jun 01 15:36 |
oiaohm | So small percentage of conversion error adds up to lots of files. | Jun 01 15:36 |
oiaohm | Prevent is better than cure with these messes. | Jun 01 15:37 |
oiaohm | OOXML is not prevent. | Jun 01 15:37 |
DaemonFC | and exactly how many formats did we go through with StarOffice before ODF? | Jun 01 15:37 |
DaemonFC | quit a number of them | Jun 01 15:37 |
oiaohm | And everyone opens perfectly today. | Jun 01 15:37 |
oiaohm | No much up due to wrong printers or anything else. | Jun 01 15:37 |
DaemonFC | and what happens to ODF documents when the next version of ODF is out? | Jun 01 15:37 |
oiaohm | New opens older no issues at all. | Jun 01 15:38 |
DaemonFC | so same thing then | Jun 01 15:38 |
oiaohm | That is the way the internals of Starwriter were designed and maintained. | Jun 01 15:38 |
oiaohm | MS office on the other hand. | Jun 01 15:38 |
DaemonFC | StarOffice has always been a 3rd world knockoff | Jun 01 15:38 |
oiaohm | Has hardware dependancies and other bad things in there docs. | Jun 01 15:38 |
oiaohm | So making them break in conversion. | Jun 01 15:39 |
DaemonFC | at least it isn't sllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww like it used to be | Jun 01 15:39 |
oiaohm | They kept that evil in ooxml. | Jun 01 15:39 |
oiaohm | ooxml is bad design. | Jun 01 15:39 |
oiaohm | Heck blender that use raw memory dumps to save does a better job than MS with backwards compadiblity. | Jun 01 15:39 |
DaemonFC | well, giving someone ODF is like trying to pay in Monopoly money | Jun 01 15:40 |
DaemonFC | if nobody takes it, what good is it? | Jun 01 15:40 |
fewa | DaemonFC has been trolling all day people should start ignoring him | Jun 01 15:40 |
oiaohm | Problem here lot of parties do take ODF. | Jun 01 15:40 |
oiaohm | More take PDF by the way. | Jun 01 15:40 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7381954#post7381954 < as soon as I pushed back after being attacked for using word FUD when directHEX was not..they immediately changed the subject: " We have been most patient with you and I find you posting style aggressive and inappropriate. " < by: bodhi.zazen | Jun 01 15:40 |
oiaohm | Than any other format. | Jun 01 15:40 |
DaemonFC | Originally Posted by bodhi.zazen | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | To get this thread back on track, we are concerned not with your personal beliefs or the use of a specific word such as "FUD". We are concerned that the tone of your posts is insulting / derogatory to others, including staff, and that your are intolerant of the choices of others, in this case the decision of others to use Mono. | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | You are free to express your opinions so long as you do not do so in a way which is insulting to others. | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | We are also asking you to respect the choices of others, even if you personally disagree with them. | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | We would like you to learn from this conversation and revise your posting style. | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | "Originally Posted by bodhi.zazen" | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | there's your problem | Jun 01 15:41 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, yes, so ?? | Jun 01 15:41 |
oiaohm | MS is not the most used format out there. PDF is. PDF + ODF in 1 file is supported by the PDF standard to improve means to edit document. | Jun 01 15:41 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, wrong | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | that guy is a dickhead | Jun 01 15:41 |
DaemonFC | even by Ooga Booga standards | Jun 01 15:41 |
neighborlee | hm | Jun 01 15:42 |
DaemonFC | search his posts | Jun 01 15:42 |
DaemonFC | he's a smarmy, condescending pile of shit | Jun 01 15:42 |
oiaohm | There is not a goverment national archive anywhere on earth that accepts .docx without converting it to either .pdf or odf for long term storage. | Jun 01 15:42 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, well its a problem of hypocrisy..im called out for using FUD word, where directHEX is not.. | Jun 01 15:43 |
DaemonFC | Massachusetts says docx is acceptable for archives | Jun 01 15:43 |
oiaohm | It is converted once it enters the storage there DaemonFC | Jun 01 15:43 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, so we now have proof positive, that ubuntu isn't about fairness and the great OSS way,but about apparantly protecting non OSS standards. | Jun 01 15:43 |
DaemonFC | I've been saying that all along | Jun 01 15:44 |
neighborlee | well we all have | Jun 01 15:44 |
neighborlee | but this is direct proof | Jun 01 15:44 |
DaemonFC | But if you insult Ubuntu, people act like you ran over Jesus, threw it in reverse, and got their mother too | Jun 01 15:44 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 15:44 |
neighborlee | quite. | Jun 01 15:44 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: they make Ubuntu a lost cause | Jun 01 15:44 |
schestowitz | Once they promote all sort of pro-Mono people it's lost | Jun 01 15:44 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, sadly, I tend to agree. | Jun 01 15:44 |
schestowitz | It means that the Microsoft Boys take over Ubuntu's direction | Jun 01 15:45 |
schestowitz | Kind of like ISO and OSI | Jun 01 15:45 |
fewa | ECMA | Jun 01 15:46 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has been heading in a bad direction since 7.04 | Jun 01 15:46 |
schestowitz | Use Mandriva | Jun 01 15:46 |
DaemonFC | when they basically pissed all over the idea of open formats and drivers | Jun 01 15:47 |
schestowitz | They'll start worring about Ubuntu's direction when people turn to other distros | Jun 01 15:47 |
schestowitz | Then, hopefully, they'll be less vain | Jun 01 15:47 |
neighborlee | fewa, lol | Jun 01 15:47 |
Eruaran | Google Wave looks pretty good | Jun 01 15:47 |
DaemonFC | they used to make you at least make an effort and discover that maybe it wasn't a great idea to slap the nonfree shit in there | Jun 01 15:47 |
schestowitz | If people choose Ubuntu and then go out of their way to remove Mono, it sends the wrong signal | Jun 01 15:47 |
Eruaran | sorry to butt in | Jun 01 15:47 |
schestowitz | Like someone buying a Windows PC just to wipe Windows | Jun 01 15:47 |
DaemonFC | I mean, you still had a choice, which is good, but now it doesn't even explain the difference | Jun 01 15:47 |
schestowitz | Instead buy a Linux machine | Jun 01 15:47 |
fewa | Eruaran, yeah i was just looking at it today, dont know what i think yet | Jun 01 15:47 |
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Eruaran | (I've just been watching the demo) | Jun 01 15:47 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, mandriva is little better..very little better..at least on the gnome side,,though yes, at least their 'default' offered ISO is kde, which has no apparant interest in mono | Jun 01 15:47 |
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Eruaran | fewa: I like that its open | Jun 01 15:48 |
schestowitz | Likewise, use a distro that is not so open to Mononucleosis | Jun 01 15:48 |
DaemonFC | well, every GNOME version of every major distro has Mono | Jun 01 15:48 |
DaemonFC | even Debian | Jun 01 15:48 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, I just wish they had a 64bit iso for livecd making things much easier in general...last I checked they did not anyway HMMM | Jun 01 15:48 |
fewa | Eruaran, its also based on XMPP i believe | Jun 01 15:48 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: KDE it is the. | Jun 01 15:48 |
schestowitz | *then | Jun 01 15:48 |
schestowitz | Or use Blag | Jun 01 15:49 |
neighborlee | yes | Jun 01 15:49 |
DaemonFC | agreed, I asked why they didn't have a 64-bit One CD, and they said it's cause they already support more versions of it than they want to | Jun 01 15:49 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, which uses fedora, which I consider less stable | Jun 01 15:49 |
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DaemonFC | KDE version and GNOME version and 3 languages per ISO | Jun 01 15:49 |
DaemonFC | ouch | Jun 01 15:49 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, so I think,,we are effectively left with mandriva. | Jun 01 15:49 |
Eruaran | fewa: It looks quite promising... the fact that its open strengthens it... It could be the end of traditional email and collaboration tools | Jun 01 15:49 |
fewa | debian people | Jun 01 15:49 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, not that I feel forced..I did always love their urpm* tools ;)) | Jun 01 15:49 |
fewa | why isnt debian mentioned? | Jun 01 15:49 |
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DaemonFC | Debian has just never felt right on a desktop | Jun 01 15:50 |
DaemonFC | at least if you use the release version | Jun 01 15:50 |
neighborlee | I feel debian is too low level..their installer creates wayyyyy too much post -work | Jun 01 15:50 |
DaemonFC | it gets several years old and nothing is updated | Jun 01 15:50 |
DaemonFC | except with security and major bug fixes | Jun 01 15:50 |
fewa | they need a ubuntu-scope metapackage | Jun 01 15:51 |
neighborlee | exaxctly | Jun 01 15:51 |
DaemonFC | they use metas | Jun 01 15:51 |
neighborlee | exactly | Jun 01 15:51 |
DaemonFC | but that just makes more problems | Jun 01 15:51 |
DaemonFC | the way they flag them | Jun 01 15:51 |
fewa | but ubuntu actually lacks alot of debian standard distrobution | Jun 01 15:51 |
fewa | in CLI toolds | Jun 01 15:51 |
DaemonFC | like say I go to get rid of swfdec, I have to unmark all dependencies of the gnome metapackage or else it will orphan my entire desktop | Jun 01 15:52 |
DaemonFC | jus ttrying to pry that one bit out | Jun 01 15:52 |
fewa | you get the same thing in ubuntu | Jun 01 15:52 |
DaemonFC | no | Jun 01 15:52 |
fewa | yeah if you use the gnome package | Jun 01 15:52 |
fewa | and same shit with ubuntu-desktop package | Jun 01 15:52 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu's layout at least doesn't include stupid shit like that as part of the desktop | Jun 01 15:52 |
DaemonFC | I mean stuff everyone will obviously want rid of | Jun 01 15:53 |
fewa | except that with ubuntu the system upgrade reset all deb pinning so you have to install all the changes in ubuntu-desktop | Jun 01 15:53 |
DaemonFC | metas are evil | Jun 01 15:53 |
fewa | metas are very nice for certain groups of people | Jun 01 15:53 |
DaemonFC | Yum at least understands what a group is | Jun 01 15:54 |
DaemonFC | without the horrible dependency crap | Jun 01 15:54 |
DaemonFC | I really just never did like Apt all that much | Jun 01 15:54 |
DaemonFC | it's not as smart as Yum is, they worked around a lot of Apts problems with things like metapackages | Jun 01 15:55 |
fewa | im thinking of switching to grandcentral, i was using youmail but they are so bastardly that they now want to change for transcriptiong | Jun 01 15:55 |
fewa | but i dont like giving google my phone calls | Jun 01 15:55 |
DaemonFC | "We would like you to learn from this conversation and revise your posting style." | Jun 01 15:56 |
DaemonFC | I'd like to put my foot up his ass and see if he revises his posting style | Jun 01 15:56 |
DaemonFC | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jun 01 15:57 |
DaemonFC | "FUD" stands for "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt." Those you oppose have been very clear about licensing issues and more with regards to Mono. While you may be personally uncomfortable, your responses and comments have had no basis in logic or facts. | Jun 01 15:57 |
DaemonFC | If anyone is spreading FUD, it is you. | Jun 01 15:57 |
DaemonFC | No apology is required nor is one forthcoming. | Jun 01 15:57 |
DaemonFC | You are being rude, pushy, arrogant, and violating the spirit of our code of conduct repeatedly if not the actual letter. I strongly suggest you drop this now and move on. | Jun 01 15:57 |
DaemonFC | posted by Matthew, the asshole in charge | Jun 01 15:57 |
DaemonFC | the almighty poobah of assholes | Jun 01 15:58 |
DaemonFC | "CoC!!!! CoC!!!! OMGZZZZZZ!!!!!!1111111111" | Jun 01 15:58 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 15:58 |
schestowitz | Still got that "almighty" account? | Jun 01 15:59 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, you got all of them | Jun 01 15:59 |
schestowitz | Of the ACPI thing? | Jun 01 15:59 |
DaemonFC | even bodhi.zazen | Jun 01 15:59 |
DaemonFC | nice | Jun 01 15:59 |
DaemonFC | it's people like that that make me nauseated every time someone mentions Ooga Booga | Jun 01 16:00 |
DaemonFC | instead of being able to discuss things like adults, they "enshrine" (their word) the Code of Conduct | Jun 01 16:01 |
DaemonFC | and if you violate it, they will chide you | Jun 01 16:01 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 01 16:01 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Uhhm, it's banned | Jun 01 16:01 |
DaemonFC | burnt beans, day old decaf | Jun 01 16:01 |
DaemonFC | w00t! | Jun 01 16:01 |
DaemonFC | fuckers | Jun 01 16:02 |
zacharym | I'm a fucker? | Jun 01 16:02 |
DaemonFC | ? | Jun 01 16:02 |
schestowitz | nope | Jun 01 16:02 |
zacharym | ok | Jun 01 16:02 |
schestowitz | some adimns | Jun 01 16:02 |
schestowitz | foxconn apologists | Jun 01 16:02 |
zacharym | You know who are fuckers? | Jun 01 16:03 |
zacharym | Novell | Jun 01 16:03 |
DaemonFC | no, I meant the 40 year old virgins and 19 year olds that live in their mothers attic that "administer" those forums | Jun 01 16:03 |
DaemonFC | at least Novell has forums that aren't like.....Ooga Boogas | Jun 01 16:04 |
tacone | it strikes me that mozilla didn't commented the .net plugin thing. | Jun 01 16:04 |
tacone | it may open the door to many security vulnerabilities | Jun 01 16:04 |
tacone | it's basically something that allows remote computer access. | Jun 01 16:04 |
DaemonFC | actually, I think Ooga Booga is an extension of Something Awful | Jun 01 16:05 |
DaemonFC | I'd be pissed if I was them | Jun 01 16:05 |
DaemonFC | I'd be getting ready to sue someone | Jun 01 16:05 |
DaemonFC | who knows? maybe they will? | Jun 01 16:06 |
DaemonFC | maybe they're in bed with Microsoft hence the silence? | Jun 01 16:06 |
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DaemonFC | we'll find out one way or another | Jun 01 16:06 |
DaemonFC | "Ubuntu and the open source movement is about tolerance and freedom. This includes the freedom to choose what operating system and what applications we wish to run on our computers." | Jun 01 16:07 |
DaemonFC | I think Linspire also said that | Jun 01 16:07 |
DaemonFC | and possibly Hitler | Jun 01 16:08 |
MinceR | if hitler said something, it surely must be evil | Jun 01 16:08 |
MinceR | he used consonants, therefore consonants are evil | Jun 01 16:08 |
MinceR | he used vowels, therefore vowels are evil | Jun 01 16:09 |
DaemonFC | damn you | Jun 01 16:09 |
MinceR | and if something was ever said about ubuntu, it can only mean ill | Jun 01 16:09 |
schestowitz | You're pushing the envelope here on Godwin's Law | Jun 01 16:10 |
MinceR | aren't you just a little bit narrow-minded, DaemonFC? | Jun 01 16:10 |
DaemonFC | not really | Jun 01 16:10 |
DaemonFC | Ooga Booga has been deteriorating for the last couple of years | Jun 01 16:10 |
DaemonFC | this was hardly surprising | Jun 01 16:11 |
MinceR | not really "a little bit", right | Jun 01 16:11 |
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schestowitz | Google pulls an MS: | Jun 01 16:13 |
schestowitz | Linux market share growing, growing, growing | Jun 01 16:13 |
schestowitz | I looked into where Net Applications gets data. They say “We use a unique methodology for collecting this data. We collect data from the browsers of site visitors to our exclusive on-demand network of live stats customers. The data is compiled from approximately 160 million visitors per month.” | Jun 01 16:13 |
schestowitz | That’s certainly a lot of data, although it would be nice to know who the “exclusive on-demand network” participants are. For instance, if Microsoft’s TechNet web site is included (which may or may not be the case, but a Microsoft logo is part of a rotating list of logos displayed) then you would expect it is likely visitors to that site tend towards using Microsoft operating systems. | Jun 01 16:13 |
schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25361/1143/ | Jun 01 16:13 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu's primary defense has been "We just package this shit" for a while now | Jun 01 16:13 |
DaemonFC | every time they're criticized for leeching or for not coming up with anything new | Jun 01 16:14 |
DaemonFC | their defense with Mono is that all the cool kids are doing it | Jun 01 16:14 |
schestowitz | Google uses agencies to promote its wares... http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25363/1054/ | Jun 01 16:14 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: cool or cold-heated? | Jun 01 16:15 |
schestowitz | *hearted (like MS) | Jun 01 16:15 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: is that the same as your defense for vista? | Jun 01 16:15 |
DaemonFC | I mean, their whole distribution is pretty flaky, their developers have no idea how a lot of things even work | Jun 01 16:15 |
DaemonFC | they have this magical thinking this cargo cult mentality | Jun 01 16:15 |
schestowitz | MinceR: he says things to provoke | Jun 01 16:15 |
schestowitz | He's a poser. | Jun 01 16:15 |
DaemonFC | of they'll just keep backporting other peoples patches | Jun 01 16:15 |
DaemonFC | til it works | Jun 01 16:15 |
MinceR | no, we call that a "troll" | Jun 01 16:15 |
schestowitz | If saying "OOXML if good" will get people all noisy, he'd do it | Jun 01 16:15 |
schestowitz | MinceR: yes | Jun 01 16:15 |
MinceR | he's either an idiot or he pretends to be one | Jun 01 16:15 |
schestowitz | He's not an idiot | Jun 01 16:16 |
schestowitz | A troublemaker | Jun 01 16:16 |
fewa | schestowitz, yeah those linux number have always been way off | Jun 01 16:16 |
DaemonFC | I mean shit, I could maintain a kernel better than any of them | Jun 01 16:16 |
MinceR | a troll | Jun 01 16:16 |
DaemonFC | and have | Jun 01 16:16 |
Eruaran | Wave is going to be open | Jun 01 16:16 |
schestowitz | fewa: I'll do another article about it | Jun 01 16:16 |
fewa | even Microsoft's numbers have linux higher | Jun 01 16:16 |
schestowitz | We lately found out MS is an inveestor | Jun 01 16:16 |
Eruaran | Anyone can implement their own Wave platform | Jun 01 16:16 |
schestowitz | And NetApps has Microsoft employees | Jun 01 16:16 |
fewa | http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple | Jun 01 16:16 |
schestowitz | So it's getting a lot warmer | Jun 01 16:16 |
fewa | wikipedia people dont like it when you take out statistics | Jun 01 16:17 |
DaemonFC | 3 months before Jaunty shipped, I and a lot of other people complained about their buggy sound system | Jun 01 16:17 |
fewa | even if Microsoft's CoIed data is less to their advantage | Jun 01 16:17 |
DaemonFC | and later versions of the kernel and pulseaudio did fix it | Jun 01 16:17 |
DaemonFC | but they decided it was better to ship one that was broken than hold back the launch a week or two | Jun 01 16:17 |
Eruaran | This means you can have Google Wave, Acme Wave, Ubuntu Wave, BN Wave... Even Microsoft Wave (rofl)... | Jun 01 16:18 |
fewa | DaemonFC, stop fucking trolling this channel | Jun 01 16:18 |
DaemonFC | fixing Ubuntu now requires compiling, packaging, and maintaining about a dozen packages yourself | Jun 01 16:19 |
tacone | well jaunty is a pretty stable release | Jun 01 16:19 |
DaemonFC | including the kernel | Jun 01 16:19 |
DaemonFC | otherwise the sound won't work right | Jun 01 16:19 |
tacone | but included quite a few knownly broken things | Jun 01 16:19 |
DaemonFC | there's gonna be static and popping and clicking | Jun 01 16:19 |
tacone | as intel drivers for example. | Jun 01 16:19 |
DaemonFC | all kinds of distortions | Jun 01 16:19 |
tacone | try jaunty on a netbook. urgghh. | Jun 01 16:19 |
DaemonFC | error messagesa | Jun 01 16:19 |
DaemonFC | bad mixing | Jun 01 16:19 |
Eruaran | You mean Ubuntu isn't perfect ? Shock ! Horror ! | Jun 01 16:19 |
MinceR | at least vista is! | Jun 01 16:20 |
tacone | is incredibile. they should have considered releasing a .1 release, at least | Jun 01 16:20 |
MinceR | oh, wait | Jun 01 16:20 |
DaemonFC | no, I mean you're hard pressed to find anything in Ubuntu that works quite right | Jun 01 16:20 |
Eruaran | lol MinceR | Jun 01 16:20 |
DaemonFC | and you can't even build GNOME and have it work in Ubuntu | Jun 01 16:20 |
tacone | netbook remix uses 3d. but intel drivers suck. that a ugly coincidence | Jun 01 16:20 |
DaemonFC | without patching the shit out of it | Jun 01 16:20 |
Eruaran | Our customers are happy | Jun 01 16:20 |
schestowitz | fewa: I'll quote you later | Jun 01 16:20 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu stopped being worth the time trouble and hassle a while ago, but Jaunty is their worst one yet, totally untenable | Jun 01 16:21 |
fewa | tacone, agreed intel integrated graphics really really suck | Jun 01 16:21 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: what nonsense | Jun 01 16:21 |
schestowitz | Enough with FUD | Jun 01 16:21 |
DaemonFC | what FUD? | Jun 01 16:21 |
schestowitz | People can move for free to the latest version | Jun 01 16:21 |
Eruaran | lol that is some really lame trolling | Jun 01 16:21 |
schestowitz | Stop with the whole DIY patch FUD | Jun 01 16:21 |
DaemonFC | you try getting the sound to work right on an Intel chipset | Jun 01 16:21 |
DaemonFC | something any other distro does fine | Jun 01 16:22 |
schestowitz | We already have Novellsoft's Susan Hauser filnging that cr* | Jun 01 16:22 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has ben totally hosed | Jun 01 16:22 |
fewa | DaemonFC, get out | Jun 01 16:22 |
schestowitz | Classic redmond toxic waste | Jun 01 16:22 |
fewa | youve been trolling all day in here, nothing even sensible | Jun 01 16:22 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: take your pills | Jun 01 16:23 |
schestowitz | Or come back when you're sane | Jun 01 16:23 |
DaemonFC | I should have recorded an example of its disatortions | Jun 01 16:23 |
DaemonFC | before I formatted it off the disk | Jun 01 16:23 |
tacone | which pill ? the red or blue one ? | Jun 01 16:23 |
DaemonFC | *distortions | Jun 01 16:23 |
schestowitz | The ones you say you buy at Wal-Mart | Jun 01 16:23 |
DaemonFC | I've just had it with trying to put Ubuntu back together | Jun 01 16:23 |
DaemonFC | they ship it broken, they employ morons | Jun 01 16:24 |
MinceR | schestowitz: you can stop him. | Jun 01 16:24 |
DaemonFC | it's just, agggh | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | <DaemonFC> Linux will be useless when all operating systems have to run on top of a hypervisor | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | <DaemonFC> PS3 proves this | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | <DaemonFC> eventually there will be DRM no matter what OS you use | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | <twitter> Free software is like a wife. You own it, it owns you and you will know it better than yourself. It never lets you down. | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | <twitter> my hypervisor will be free :-D | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | <DaemonFC> eventually, the hypservisor could refuse Linux the ability to play movies or copy discs | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | just FUD | Jun 01 16:24 |
fewa | and you are not even talking to anyone | Jun 01 16:24 |
DaemonFC | that's already what Sony has done | Jun 01 16:24 |
DaemonFC | with theirs | Jun 01 16:24 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu works fine | Jun 01 16:24 |
schestowitz | Just don't try to break it | Jun 01 16:25 |
schestowitz | roy@baine:~$ uptime | Jun 01 16:25 |
schestowitz | 16:05:34 up 126 days, 5:06, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00 | Jun 01 16:25 |
schestowitz | roy@baine:~$ uname -a | Jun 01 16:25 |
schestowitz | Linux baine 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Tue Feb 12 05:41:34 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux | Jun 01 16:25 |
schestowitz | roy@baine:~$ | Jun 01 16:25 |
DaemonFC | no, Ubuntu does not work fine | Jun 01 16:25 |
DaemonFC | on my system or about a few million others with this chipset | Jun 01 16:25 |
DaemonFC | and it's bugs that they willfully ignored | Jun 01 16:25 |
schestowitz | Buy a computer that runs Linux | Jun 01 16:26 |
DaemonFC | they even said that they set Pulseaudio to expose the bugs in the sound driver | Jun 01 16:26 |
schestowitz | Not Windows-oriented POS | Jun 01 16:26 |
DaemonFC | then shipped it that way | Jun 01 16:26 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, if only ps3 used less power..my wii owns that aspect of things quite admireably...18w even at peak power, compared top 180'ish | Jun 01 16:26 |
DaemonFC | the funny part is a lot of systems shipped with Ubuntu will have the same problems | Jun 01 16:26 |
DaemonFC | when people upgrade to Jaunty | Jun 01 16:26 |
schestowitz | You're just wasting people's time with this trolling | Jun 01 16:26 |
fewa | just this talk week i installed ubuntu on two differnt new systems. wifi, keyboard shortcuts, everything *just worked* | Jun 01 16:26 |
fewa | it was jaunty | Jun 01 16:26 |
DaemonFC | good for you, must not have an Intel ICH9 | Jun 01 16:26 |
DaemonFC | wow | Jun 01 16:27 |
schestowitz | Can a connection between MS PR and Alex Zaharov-Reutt be shown? | Jun 01 16:27 |
schestowitz | He seems to be flogging lots of the W-E-esque stuff | Jun 01 16:27 |
DaemonFC | You'd get one with any G33, G35, or G43 chipset I believe | Jun 01 16:27 |
DaemonFC | I wonder how many of those there could be | Jun 01 16:27 |
schestowitz | I never had any Linux h/w incompatibilities | Jun 01 16:28 |
schestowitz | Maybe just once | Jun 01 16:28 |
DaemonFC | it's not a Linux problem | Jun 01 16:28 |
schestowitz | An old PC and Ubuntu 5.04 | Jun 01 16:28 |
DaemonFC | it's Ubuntu problems | Jun 01 16:28 |
fewa | ive had plenty of windows hardware compatibilities | Jun 01 16:28 |
schestowitz | The sound balance did not have effect | Jun 01 16:28 |
fewa | tons of bullshit | Jun 01 16:28 |
DaemonFC | there's no problem with this device with any distro that's not Ubuntu | Jun 01 16:29 |
schestowitz | Sound detected out of the box, but stereo balance would not work, so I put SUSE 9.3 on it | Jun 01 16:29 |
DaemonFC | I repeat, no other distro | Jun 01 16:29 |
schestowitz | That was before the MS deal BTW | Jun 01 16:29 |
fewa | cause all the drivers are closed source so the manufactures refuse to release new drivers | Jun 01 16:29 |
DaemonFC | there's no closed source driver for this device | Jun 01 16:29 |
neighborlee | its a linux problem | Jun 01 16:29 |
DaemonFC | all GPL | Jun 01 16:29 |
DaemonFC | all in the kernel | Jun 01 16:29 |
neighborlee | look what a mess they ALL caused with pulseaudio | Jun 01 16:29 |
neighborlee | it was crappola | Jun 01 16:29 |
neighborlee | imho | Jun 01 16:29 |
schestowitz | Bull, no? | Jun 01 16:29 |
DaemonFC | It's a combination of Ubuntu kernel bugs and Ubuntu Pulseaudio configuration | Jun 01 16:30 |
schestowitz | Some people say they never had issues | Jun 01 16:30 |
DaemonFC | they combine to create this perfect storm of shit | Jun 01 16:30 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, I suspect hardware differences..they are not all created equal sadly enough | Jun 01 16:30 |
schestowitz | Pulseaudio is run by Red Hat | Jun 01 16:30 |
schestowitz | Fedora... Red Hat-hired dev (adopted him) | Jun 01 16:30 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, which comes back to solid QA.which is sorely lacking in linux, due to fragmentation | Jun 01 16:30 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, as I see it | Jun 01 16:30 |
schestowitz | Fedora 11 will gain them more users | Jun 01 16:31 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Fedora 10 can have some issues, slight crackling, but turning off timer scheduling fixes it | Jun 01 16:31 |
DaemonFC | Fedora 11 and Mandriva 2009.1 work fine as is | Jun 01 16:31 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, if they lose mono it willl ;) | Jun 01 16:31 |
fewa | neighborlee, schestowitz my 24-bit soundblaster doesnt work well with pulseaudio, but all I had to do was put ALSA in charge and run pulseaudio throught that and everything was fine | Jun 01 16:31 |
MinceR | pulseaudio sucks | Jun 01 16:31 |
fewa | system should be a little smarter with such things | Jun 01 16:32 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: if they lose Mono we can promote it | Jun 01 16:32 |
schestowitz | Other than BLAG | Jun 01 16:32 |
DaemonFC | Pulseaudio doesn't suck | Jun 01 16:32 |
MinceR | yes it does | Jun 01 16:32 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is too stupid to set it right | Jun 01 16:32 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, totally agree..that would rock yes. | Jun 01 16:32 |
MinceR | it redoes dmix, except much worse | Jun 01 16:32 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, is gone I gues on livecd..but still there on upgrade path ??..so its still 'there' | Jun 01 16:32 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: drown it in the bath | Jun 01 16:32 |
neighborlee | heh | Jun 01 16:33 |
DaemonFC | of course Ubuntu users have problems with Pulseaudio, you don't exactly have the cream of the crop putting Ubuntu together backwards | Jun 01 16:33 |
schestowitz | To wash it.. | Jun 01 16:33 |
DaemonFC | now do you? | Jun 01 16:33 |
schestowitz | Off patents | Jun 01 16:33 |
schestowitz | Gnote .040 is out | Jun 01 16:33 |
DaemonFC | putting it backwards with a few parts left over | Jun 01 16:33 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 16:33 |
schestowitz | *0.4.0 | Jun 01 16:33 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: How GNU/Linux users can keep Mono at bay < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1148/ ? | Jun 01 16:33 |
schestowitz | ^I think you were away when I posted it this morning | Jun 01 16:34 |
tacone | yes, it's some days it's out. | Jun 01 16:34 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, checking andyup I was | Jun 01 16:34 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, really like same..gutsy and determined ;0- | Jun 01 16:34 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I wonder when moonlight will be added to the non-free pile of crap metapackage | Jun 01 16:34 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, err SAM | Jun 01 16:34 |
DaemonFC | they already slap in Microsoft formats | Jun 01 16:35 |
schestowitz | Maybe when Microsoft bids for NOVL | Jun 01 16:35 |
DaemonFC | FROM Microsoft | Jun 01 16:35 |
schestowitz | Only option anyway.. | Jun 01 16:35 |
DaemonFC | without asking | Jun 01 16:35 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, thx indeed ,but I already knew about: Introduces an intentional conflict with Mono packages << | Jun 01 16:35 |
tacone | mononono ? | Jun 01 16:35 |
DaemonFC | and Microsoft fonts | Jun 01 16:35 |
tacone | blogging about it served something. | Jun 01 16:35 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, little comfort, when those that dont know about mono or why its dangerous, will use the apps created by it..but its something I guess | Jun 01 16:35 |
neighborlee | tacone, lol | Jun 01 16:36 |
schestowitz | SELECT * from NOVL where MONO=ON | Jun 01 16:36 |
schestowitz | SUE TABLE .MONO | Jun 01 16:36 |
DaemonFC | some Novell guy had ported Banshee to Windows at one point | Jun 01 16:36 |
DaemonFC | just a test build | Jun 01 16:37 |
tacone | not to say he learned about it by me, but it's possible | Jun 01 16:37 |
tacone | schestowitz: echo "mono" | sed s/mo// | Jun 01 16:37 |
schestowitz | We have some research on this around here... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8077240.stm | Jun 01 16:38 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: i'm sure vista does pulseaudio right | Jun 01 16:38 |
MinceR | oh, wait | Jun 01 16:38 |
fewa | vista auto stack is a joke | Jun 01 16:39 |
fewa | *audio | Jun 01 16:39 |
neighborlee | If Tim's computers don't have the horsepower to run .NET applications, maybe he should get a job, move out of his mother's basement, and upgrade to computers that are less than five years old. < utter proof, that mono supporters only care about attacking instead of laying out reasoned debate..oh wait there IS NONE ;)) | Jun 01 16:39 |
DaemonFC | Vista can use Pulseaudio | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | └─(16:39 $)─> find | grep mono | echo "mono" | sed s/mo// | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | no!!!!!!!!!!!!11 | Jun 01 16:39 |
schestowitz | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg | Jun 01 16:40 |
MinceR | yes|sed s/y/no\!/ | Jun 01 16:41 |
DaemonFC | http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/libraries/bonus-tracks/rheet.wav | Jun 01 16:41 |
schestowitz | Cuba slams Microsoft censorship < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184454/cuba-slams-microsoft-censorship > | Jun 01 16:42 |
schestowitz | The Inquirer just seems to link a lot to AP (via Aussie press) to make some dull postings. | Jun 01 16:42 |
DaemonFC | while Cuba censures the internet | Jun 01 16:43 |
zacharym | boy do I hate novell | Jun 01 16:43 |
tacone | think about what cuba could have done if no linux existed. | Jun 01 16:43 |
DaemonFC | so that people there can't google "freedom" | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | Mentioned here yesterday: Yahoo shuts 360 < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184449/yahoo-shuts-360 > | Jun 01 16:43 |
DaemonFC | irony | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | Just another reason not to host pages/site somewhere else | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | First Geocities | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | Now Yahoo!360 | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | And DaemonFC puts his data in wordpress.com | Jun 01 16:43 |
fewa | schestowitz, thats just another reason for open protocols | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | Not smart.. | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | zacharym: why? | Jun 01 16:43 |
schestowitz | I don't hate Novell myself | Jun 01 16:44 |
schestowitz | Logically, companies like Novell just need not to receive money so that ethical business inherit their place | Jun 01 16:44 |
schestowitz | Like Mandriva | Jun 01 16:44 |
schestowitz | fewa: wordpress.com enables export as XML | Jun 01 16:45 |
schestowitz | Geocities was made weird when Yahoo! bought it | Jun 01 16:45 |
schestowitz | I could no longer access my files with some file managers | Jun 01 16:45 |
fewa | but its nuts that they didnt keep it up | Jun 01 16:45 |
DaemonFC | *censors even | Jun 01 16:45 |
schestowitz | But I have local copies | Jun 01 16:45 |
*DaemonFC needs a nap | Jun 01 16:45 | |
fewa | its not like it costed them anything | Jun 01 16:45 |
fewa | they could have turned it into a archive site, turning off uploads etc | Jun 01 16:46 |
schestowitz | Anyway, just some old site from 12 years ago | Jun 01 16:46 |
tacone | DaemonFC: don't forget the pills :P | Jun 01 16:46 |
fewa | but shutting it down is just a waste | Jun 01 16:46 |
DaemonFC | why would I take pills? | Jun 01 16:46 |
schestowitz | Cater-pill-ar | Jun 01 16:46 |
DaemonFC | dope is for dopes | Jun 01 16:46 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 01 16:46 |
DaemonFC | so why would I take dope to cope? | Jun 01 16:46 |
DaemonFC | :P\ | Jun 01 16:46 |
fewa | archiving data is basically free these days, if somebody meant for their data to be public, then keep it public | Jun 01 16:47 |
schestowitz | Swedish pirate party tipped for EU win < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184453/swedish-pirate-party-tipped-eu-win >. Maybe the name "pirate party" sounds too aggressive, but.. | Jun 01 16:48 |
fewa | schestowitz, no its not, its turning the mischaracterization, and attacking it for the straw man it is | Jun 01 16:48 |
schestowitz | fewa: URIs can change | Jun 01 16:48 |
schestowitz | fewa: oh, I seee.. | Jun 01 16:48 |
schestowitz | Well, RMS says that "pirate bay" is not a good name to go by either way | Jun 01 16:49 |
schestowitz | He knows why they use the word | Jun 01 16:49 |
DaemonFC | Unlicensed Copy Bay | Jun 01 16:49 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 16:49 |
fewa | well american politics are differnt from swedish ones | Jun 01 16:49 |
schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25352/1148/ "Mono at bay" | Jun 01 16:49 |
schestowitz | Mono is "piracy"? | Jun 01 16:49 |
schestowitz | "Patent piracy" is a funny term | Jun 01 16:50 |
schestowitz | it's not even copying | Jun 01 16:50 |
schestowitz | Think about it | Jun 01 16:50 |
tacone | is itwire attacking mono ? | Jun 01 16:50 |
schestowitz | If I borrow an idea... | Jun 01 16:50 |
fewa | the idea the politicians and governments can criminalize their children and constituents en mass has only gotten hold in the US ("drug war") | Jun 01 16:50 |
schestowitz | Or if I mistakenly think someone that someone far away thought about too, then I might be a murderer | Jun 01 16:50 |
schestowitz | "Patent piracy"... | Jun 01 16:50 |
MinceR | word piracy! | Jun 01 16:51 |
MinceR | air piracy! | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | Shoosh! | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | You speak too much | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | You breath more air | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | "Stealing" ours! | Jun 01 16:51 |
fewa | and the supreme court has specifically said that copyright infringement is not "stealing" nor "theft", yet this hasnt kept the MPAA et al, form continuing that mischaracterization | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | Air tax.. | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | Think about it | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | Like property tax | Jun 01 16:51 |
DaemonFC | no, peoples republics | Jun 01 16:51 |
schestowitz | Homeless people can be charged too | Jun 01 16:52 |
DaemonFC | and Islamic countries | Jun 01 16:52 |
DaemonFC | are far more effective | Jun 01 16:52 |
schestowitz | You ask the govt, "how will you change them" | Jun 01 16:52 |
DaemonFC | at torturing and killing innocent people | Jun 01 16:52 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 01 16:52 |
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schestowitz | And proudly they shalt reply, "the air... what we all have in common is that we breathe. Can we tax that?" | Jun 01 16:52 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: well, what about the US? | Jun 01 16:53 |
schestowitz | Killing innocent people ABROAD? | Jun 01 16:53 |
schestowitz | Like millions in Vietnam... South America... | Jun 01 16:53 |
schestowitz | How's that for atrocious? | Jun 01 16:53 |
schestowitz | What I try to say is that you can be a hypocrite | Jun 01 16:53 |
DaemonFC | meh, we'll never be as bad as the Islamics or communists | Jun 01 16:54 |
schestowitz | It's arguably worse to lynch someone across the border for not agreeing with some foreign set of principles. Like those leaders which the US had murdered (by proxy) for not putting some countries at the cntres of their world (aka "democracy") | Jun 01 16:54 |
DaemonFC | well, what I mean is that when Iran murders children in the streets and laughs about it | Jun 01 16:55 |
DaemonFC | well, Islam is its own brand of evil | Jun 01 16:55 |
DaemonFC | constant persecution and murder for "crimes against nature" is pretty much all that comes from letting a murderous religion to control your government | Jun 01 16:56 |
DaemonFC | Islam and Christianity are the most horrible things that people have ever created | Jun 01 16:57 |
schestowitz | Britain leads world in police state survey < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/01/snooping_poll/ > | Jun 01 16:58 |
tacone | Jesus was a community manager | Jun 01 16:58 |
schestowitz | This is good?? | Jun 01 16:58 |
tacone | a good one, apparently. | Jun 01 16:58 |
DaemonFC | Jesus never existed | Jun 01 16:58 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: stop trolling | Jun 01 16:58 |
DaemonFC | he was based on the pagan god-man idea | Jun 01 16:58 |
schestowitz | You bring relion into it under a pseudonym | Jun 01 16:58 |
schestowitz | Just to annoy people | Jun 01 16:58 |
DaemonFC | same as most ancient dieties | Jun 01 16:58 |
schestowitz | *religion | Jun 01 16:59 |
DaemonFC | if you go back into several dozen other ancient religions, they all say the same story | Jun 01 16:59 |
DaemonFC | it's because they're based on astrology | Jun 01 17:00 |
DaemonFC | Christianity has been used by lots of governments to try and control people | Jun 01 17:01 |
DaemonFC | ever since the Roman Empire | Jun 01 17:01 |
schestowitz | News about Tom Tom and nothing about Linux: Tom Tom flags down 'live traffic' XL satnav < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/30/video_tom_tom_xl/ > | Jun 01 17:01 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jun 01 17:02 |
schestowitz | But it used to be chruch I think | Jun 01 17:02 |
schestowitz | Rulers rather | Jun 01 17:02 |
schestowitz | Not federal bureaucratic govts. | Jun 01 17:02 |
schestowitz | But enough about religion | Jun 01 17:02 |
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_Goblin | hi all | Jun 01 17:03 |
schestowitz | "And since most of the world's computers run on the Windows or the Linux systems, their work has also provided a growing window into how to attack foreign networks in any cyberwar." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/us/31cyber.html | Jun 01 17:04 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: did the Castashill find a new habitat? | Jun 01 17:05 |
schestowitz | After MSwatch? | Jun 01 17:05 |
schestowitz | Neowin maybe? Where do the trolls move to? | Jun 01 17:05 |
_Goblin | pass | Jun 01 17:05 |
_Goblin | Neowin - no troll/shill refused! | Jun 01 17:05 |
_Goblin | its sort of a salvation army hostel for the MS faithful. | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | I'm happy MS Watch is gone | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | It's less work for those keeping track | Jun 01 17:06 |
_Goblin | Its soon to be registered charity you know. | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | Seattle PI blog is kaput too | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | The MS blog and others | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | Paper--likewise | Jun 01 17:06 |
_Goblin | Microsoft Watch is going nowhere | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | Occupied by some actual MS employees now | Jun 01 17:06 |
schestowitz | Taking the empty barracks and Maginot lines | Jun 01 17:07 |
_Goblin | even Andre seems to be shutting up shop. He's relegated to linking other peoples articles on Activewin | Jun 01 17:07 |
schestowitz | Jo moved elsewhere, but no MS focus | Jun 01 17:07 |
schestowitz | Todd Bishop found a new barracks from which to flinf MS PR | Jun 01 17:07 |
schestowitz | *fling | Jun 01 17:07 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: good | Jun 01 17:07 |
schestowitz | They lose their PR momentum | Jun 01 17:08 |
_Goblin | Roy...Would you look at something for me? | Jun 01 17:08 |
schestowitz | How quickly down they go.. | Jun 01 17:08 |
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schestowitz | .We need to just promote Linux some more and ODF too | Jun 01 17:08 |
schestowitz | Without Windows and Office Microsoft is deeper in what they callously call "Death spiral" | Jun 01 17:08 |
schestowitz | With Bing and Zune! ;-) | Jun 01 17:08 |
_Goblin | Have a look at my Mandriva article and tell me if you think there is something iffy about the comments by "LinuxLover" | Jun 01 17:08 |
schestowitz | Zunbingsoft | Jun 01 17:08 |
schestowitz | Zunbingsoft360.NET | Jun 01 17:09 |
*zacharym has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 01 17:09 | |
schestowitz | _Goblin: LinuxLover would not be a Linux user | Jun 01 17:09 |
schestowitz | Trolls use such names | Jun 01 17:09 |
schestowitz | What's the URL again? | Jun 01 17:09 |
schestowitz | To gain credibility some trolls use names like "Gentoo users" so that you think they're 1337 hax0rs | Jun 01 17:10 |
_Goblin | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/is-there-only-one-choice-for-the-linux-newcomer/ | Jun 01 17:10 |
DaemonFC | just bing it :P | Jun 01 17:10 |
DaemonFC | heh | Jun 01 17:11 |
schestowitz | LinuxLover knows his stuff | Jun 01 17:11 |
schestowitz | So no, it's not a faker | Jun 01 17:11 |
DaemonFC | linsux.org just looks like kids | Jun 01 17:12 |
_Goblin | But requiring the CLI for Ubuntu? I disagree | Jun 01 17:12 |
schestowitz | I see that Ed still posts COLA stuff: http://www.s5h.net/ | Jun 01 17:12 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, it is | Jun 01 17:13 |
schestowitz | Script kiddies and Satanic culture | Jun 01 17:13 |
*zachary_ is now known as zacharym | Jun 01 17:14 | |
_Goblin | Taken your comment on board Roy, but I have one of my "feelings" about LinuxLover | Jun 01 17:14 |
_Goblin | Ive challenged him to give examples (in respect of the average user) | Jun 01 17:14 |
_Goblin | politely of course. | Jun 01 17:14 |
DaemonFC | PC-BSD is back on sale at Frys | Jun 01 17:17 |
DaemonFC | I picked up a boxed set | Jun 01 17:17 |
neighborlee | DaemonFC, too bad there are no 64bit nvidia drivers for bsd yet | Jun 01 17:17 |
DaemonFC | it has both DVDs in one box | Jun 01 17:18 |
_Goblin | nieghborlee, sorry I missed your PM's yesterday | Jun 01 17:18 |
neighborlee | np | Jun 01 17:18 |
DaemonFC | I mainly got it for my laptop | Jun 01 17:18 |
DaemonFC | but the 32-bit version supports PAE | Jun 01 17:18 |
_Goblin | I didn't notice until you had gone. | Jun 01 17:18 |
DaemonFC | so technically I could use it on my desktop | Jun 01 17:18 |
neighborlee | _Goblin, ah yes happens no worries | Jun 01 17:18 |
_Goblin | Roy, I meant to say...I'll be visiting relatives in your end of the world in August...Maybe we can meet up for a drink (as long as you don't mind my wife in tow!) | Jun 01 17:20 |
schestowitz | Everyone loves the MAFIAA. Not. Joss Stone offers to pay £2m to escape EMI < http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/01/joss-stone-emi > | Jun 01 17:22 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: sure! | Jun 01 17:23 |
_Goblin | :) | Jun 01 17:24 |
*tacone has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Jun 01 17:25 | |
schestowitz | WITNESS - A night with China's secret police in 1989 < http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-39988120090531?sp=true > | Jun 01 17:27 |
schestowitz | The Top 6 Game-Changing Features of Google Wave < http://mashable.com/2009/05/31/google-wave-features/ >. Has anyone tried it properly? | Jun 01 17:28 |
schestowitz | Eruaran did the demo.. | Jun 01 17:28 |
schestowitz | PJ (Groklaw) thinks about replacing her comments in Groklaw with Wave | Jun 01 17:28 |
schestowitz | Wouldn't that be quite a change? | Jun 01 17:28 |
Eruaran | That would be cool | Jun 01 17:28 |
fewa | schestowitz, its not avalable yet | Jun 01 17:28 |
schestowitz | Like in BN, most communication is not in relay (IRC), not comments, which I put further down in the pages so it's not so visible. | Jun 01 17:29 |
schestowitz | fewa: I know | Jun 01 17:29 |
schestowitz | But PJ thinks it might be better for the Groklaw community to research | Jun 01 17:29 |
fewa | schestowitz, but if it kills facebook im all for it | Jun 01 17:29 |
schestowitz | They had Wiki spam problems | Jun 01 17:29 |
schestowitz | I don't like Facebook | Jun 01 17:29 |
fewa | agreed | Jun 01 17:29 |
fewa | its so closed | Jun 01 17:30 |
schestowitz | It's like some kind of a police file | Jun 01 17:30 |
schestowitz | Only with more photos and inter-personal connections | Jun 01 17:30 |
fewa | and vastly more privacy needy than google | Jun 01 17:30 |
schestowitz | Yes, but.. | Jun 01 17:30 |
trmanco | ah | Jun 01 17:30 |
fewa | it has a flash bug in every page | Jun 01 17:30 |
trmanco | hello | Jun 01 17:30 |
trmanco | I'm back | Jun 01 17:30 |
schestowitz | Google thinks about doing public profiles for users | Jun 01 17:30 |
schestowitz | I saw it some months ago | Jun 01 17:30 |
schestowitz | trmanco: summer's hibernation? | Jun 01 17:31 |
schestowitz | Gnote 0.4.0 is out | Jun 01 17:31 |
fewa | to use flashs underreported "locally stored objects" ie flash cookies, that live forever | Jun 01 17:31 |
schestowitz | Now in Debian Lenny (almost) | Jun 01 17:31 |
trmanco | schestowitz, no, I would say incompetence is the case | Jun 01 17:31 |
trmanco | the telecom guys for some reason like to harass my telephone line | Jun 01 17:31 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is still going down, too. | Jun 01 17:31 |
trmanco | ah, great | Jun 01 17:31 |
trmanco | I'll announce Gnote in a while | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | While marketing 'recover' based on the printing of more money | Jun 01 17:32 |
fewa | microsoft has 50% in facebook | Jun 01 17:32 |
trmanco | when was it released? | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | (i.e. preparation for even bigger downfall_) | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | fewa: 5% | Jun 01 17:32 |
fewa | o really | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 01 17:32 |
fewa | o0O | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | IIRC | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | Just a pawn | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | To guard its control | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | Zuckenblob is a buddy of MS | Jun 01 17:32 |
schestowitz | He visits them sometimes | Jun 01 17:33 |
schestowitz | So something to keep an eye on; or not bother rather | Jun 01 17:33 |
fewa | o yeah | Jun 01 17:33 |
fewa | http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/24/facebook-takes-the-microsoft-money-and-runs/ | Jun 01 17:33 |
schestowitz | Preparing to Sell E-Books, Google Takes on Amazon < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/technology/internet/01google.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss > | Jun 01 17:33 |
schestowitz | Literature monopoly | Jun 01 17:33 |
schestowitz | I sometimes need access to books | Jun 01 17:33 |
schestowitz | Google Books lets me in without buying the book | Jun 01 17:34 |
schestowitz | Exposing like 1/3 of /new/ books | Jun 01 17:34 |
schestowitz | It does make me wonder | Jun 01 17:34 |
Eruaran | I couldn't help thinking when I watched the keynote on Wave | Jun 01 17:34 |
schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/01/badda-bing-indeed/ | Jun 01 17:34 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: the pr0n engine | Jun 01 17:35 |
schestowitz | Maybe that's their business mode | Jun 01 17:35 |
schestowitz | Use US!! We got pr0n | Jun 01 17:35 |
Eruaran | These folks at Google are on a similar *wave*length (pardon the pun) to KDE with the kinds of internet driven social/semantic stuff they want to advance | Jun 01 17:35 |
schestowitz | "Loic Le Meur, did was search for “sex” or “porn.” The results are majestic — if you’re a teenager looking for a way around porn filters on your computer. And this isn’t artful porn or something like it, it’s straight-up, hardcore pornography." | Jun 01 17:35 |
trmanco | ah | Jun 01 17:36 |
Eruaran | So I won't be surprised at all to see the KDE community embracing Wave enthusiastically | Jun 01 17:36 |
schestowitz | No manual cleanup | Jun 01 17:36 |
schestowitz | Bingbing! Stright out the door | Jun 01 17:36 |
trmanco | I love this feeling of being back once again | Jun 01 17:36 |
schestowitz | So will MS block Bing like it blocks Google? | Jun 01 17:36 |
Eruaran | I can imagine Aaron loves it | Jun 01 17:36 |
schestowitz | [in thweir filter] | Jun 01 17:36 |
fewa | schestowitz, thats the game of all the non-youtube video sites too | Jun 01 17:36 |
schestowitz | Lycos Buys Its Trademarks Back From Failed Euro Arm < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-lycos-buys-its-trademarks-back-from-failed-euro-arm/ > | Jun 01 17:37 |
fewa | Eruaran, that would be very interesting | Jun 01 17:37 |
schestowitz | Buying "IP" and stuff.. | Jun 01 17:37 |
Eruaran | Wave will take off... so, what's M$ going to do about such a potentially 'mote filling' change | Jun 01 17:37 |
trmanco | oh, bing, I've heard about that on friday | Jun 01 17:37 |
schestowitz | trmanco: not missed much | Jun 01 17:38 |
Eruaran | bing has gone live | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | No lawsuits or anything | Jun 01 17:38 |
trmanco | has it crashed already? | Jun 01 17:38 |
Eruaran | and you can hear the crickets already | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | trmanco: yes | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | Crashed | Jun 01 17:38 |
trmanco | it's written in .Nit | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | Blank pages | Jun 01 17:38 |
trmanco | right? | Jun 01 17:38 |
trmanco | ah | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | Welcome to search.. coming soon | Jun 01 17:38 |
Eruaran | really ? | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | It runs Linux | Jun 01 17:38 |
*Eruaran guffaws | Jun 01 17:38 | |
schestowitz | Or behind Linux | Jun 01 17:38 |
schestowitz | But probably .NYET at the back | Jun 01 17:38 |
trmanco | ah | Jun 01 17:39 |
trmanco | some thing new | Jun 01 17:39 |
trmanco | I would rely on Icaza to write that for Linux | Jun 01 17:39 |
trmanco | ... | Jun 01 17:39 |
trmanco | and then force everyone to use those apps | Jun 01 17:39 |
schestowitz | British supermarkets accused over destruction of Amazon rainforest < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/31/supermarkets-amazon-cattle-deforestation-greenpeace > | Jun 01 17:39 |
schestowitz | trmanco: Maybe he'll write "I'm a fan" | Jun 01 17:40 |
Eruaran | I can imagine Microsoft would try to come up with its own "wave"... and they'd try to tie it in with Windows and Office | Jun 01 17:40 |
schestowitz | Like he did for "Linux Haters" | Jun 01 17:40 |
trmanco | heh | Jun 01 17:40 |
schestowitz | Google Wave and news < http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/05/31/google-wave-and-news/ > | Jun 01 17:40 |
Eruaran | What's happening in Gnomeland ? | Jun 01 17:40 |
zacharym | I don't mind GTK+ but I hate Mono | Jun 01 17:41 |
zacharym | Great way to introduce patent encumbered libraries to Linux | Jun 01 17:41 |
*schestowitz watches Google Wave Developer Preview at Google I/O 2009 < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_UyVmITiYQ&feature=channel > | Jun 01 17:44 | |
schestowitz | HTML 5 and Web video: freeing rich media from plugin prison http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/05/google-dailymotion-endorse-html-5-and-standards-based-video.ars | Jun 01 17:45 |
schestowitz | 'The expense crisis reveals a nation governed by a political elite that has stopped listening and who are accountable to no one but their party machines. Too many MPs seem more interested in changing their homes than changing the world." http://www.voteforachange.co.uk/ | Jun 01 17:45 |
Eruaran | When I saw Wave translating as people type, merging email and conversations, live markup and document collaboration, sharing media, games, live postings, comments and updates of blogs on the fly etc etc... all in the one seamless and nice to use interface... and then was told its open, anybody will be able to implement it, I thought holy crap this could be big | Jun 01 17:45 |
fewa | schestowitz, i pointed out that ars article yesterday | Jun 01 17:46 |
schestowitz | Sublime or ridiculous? The 49-way USB hub < http://thenextweb.com/2009/05/31/sublime-ridiculous-49way-usb-hub/ > | Jun 01 17:46 |
schestowitz | fewa: yes, I know | Jun 01 17:46 |
schestowitz | There are many like it | Jun 01 17:46 |
schestowitz | I saw the html5 YouTube thing like 5-6 days ago | Jun 01 17:46 |
schestowitz | Very exciting | Jun 01 17:47 |
schestowitz | Imagine shunning all but's the first to use Ogg | Jun 01 17:47 |
fewa | schestowitz, i emailed RMS about that about a month ago and he schruged me off | Jun 01 17:47 |
schestowitz | Imagine shunning all but YouTube when it's the first to use Ogg | Jun 01 17:47 |
fewa | as <video> <canvas> and js replacing flash | Jun 01 17:47 |
Eruaran | I believe Google's motives are not just autralistic | Jun 01 17:49 |
Eruaran | *autralistic ? | Jun 01 17:49 |
schestowitz | Electoral Fraud Alert < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/05/electoral_fraud.html > | Jun 01 17:49 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: so what would it be? | Jun 01 17:49 |
schestowitz | Surely not the anti-Flash crowd | Jun 01 17:49 |
schestowitz | Which is a minority in the GNU/Linux community | Jun 01 17:49 |
Eruaran | I think Google believes (and I'd agree) that a completely open web founded on strong standards creates an online world much bigger and more vibrant than what we have today | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jun 01 17:50 |
Eruaran | And the opportunities would be huge | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | But that might even be called altrusic | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | Even if done for selfish reasons | Jun 01 17:50 |
fewa | ive got this bee in my room thats been obviously poisoned by some pesticide | Jun 01 17:50 |
Eruaran | ah thanks for correcting my spelling | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | That is, for Google to get good karma/PR | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | And also to harm MS by doing so | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | Think about it | Jun 01 17:50 |
Eruaran | yes | Jun 01 17:50 |
schestowitz | More standards =less Silver Lie | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | More standards = powerful Web apps | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | More standards = Chrome, Firefox, Webkit | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | More standards = more search, indexing, ADS | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | Ads in Web pages | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | GOogle does not sell s/w | Jun 01 17:51 |
fewa | more web pages | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | Not even Urchin | Jun 01 17:51 |
Eruaran | Microsoft's "widening of the mote" becomes an irrelevant castaway | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | MS tries Works with ads | Jun 01 17:51 |
schestowitz | Who would buy it | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | Ooo>Works | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | And OOo uses standards | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | No ads (yet) | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | We'll see what Oracssonnn does | Jun 01 17:52 |
fewa | its open source people can just remove the ads | Jun 01 17:52 |
fewa | google can do ads cause most people dont bother | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | Some like it | Jun 01 17:52 |
fewa | the switching costs and transaction costs are too low to mater | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | My parents like the ads | Jun 01 17:52 |
Eruaran | I think as cool as Wave is, the biggest thing is that its open | Jun 01 17:52 |
schestowitz | Don't laugh | Jun 01 17:52 |
fewa | and yes, google ads are the best ads out there | Jun 01 17:53 |
Eruaran | They want to change the web and the way people communicate | Jun 01 17:53 |
schestowitz | No Outlook??!?! OMG | Jun 01 17:53 |
schestowitz | What about Excheeeeeeeeenge | Jun 01 17:53 |
Eruaran | Wave will kill Outlook | Jun 01 17:53 |
Eruaran | And Exchange | Jun 01 17:53 |
schestowitz | But.. but....... | Jun 01 17:53 |
schestowitz | Exxchange! | Jun 01 17:53 |
schestowitz | And SharePunkt | Jun 01 17:53 |
Eruaran | gone | Jun 01 17:54 |
schestowitz | People will just share pages | Jun 01 17:54 |
schestowitz | And video and 'stuff' | Jun 01 17:54 |
Eruaran | People will just share information | Jun 01 17:54 |
Eruaran | their 'stuff' | Jun 01 17:54 |
schestowitz | And pass around documents not in .doc and MOOX | Jun 01 17:54 |
schestowitz | No MS middleware | Jun 01 17:54 |
schestowitz | Tranport and tools combined | Jun 01 17:54 |
schestowitz | Rather than clients for port X and then a toolset of apps for manipulating date | Jun 01 17:55 |
schestowitz | Like Windows Media Player | Jun 01 17:55 |
Eruaran | Wave has the potential to make the sharing of information over the web seamless and transparent in a way that could relegate software like Outlook to the dustbin of history | Jun 01 17:55 |
schestowitz | Windows Movie Maker | Jun 01 17:55 |
schestowitz | WMV only. Blech | Jun 01 17:55 |
schestowitz | I see... | Jun 01 17:55 |
Eruaran | Embed a video ? Done. | Jun 01 17:55 |
schestowitz | So Wave is an enhancement to GMail that brings together the bits like Google Apps | Jun 01 17:55 |
Eruaran | Share pictures ? Done. | Jun 01 17:55 |
schestowitz | And media player (YouTube) | Jun 01 17:56 |
Eruaran | Live and realtime. | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | Then puts them in one place | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | So no need for middleware servers | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | Like Exchange and SharePoint | Jun 01 17:56 |
Eruaran | yes | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | Pages hosted on Google too | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | For good uptime | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | Picasa | Jun 01 17:56 |
Eruaran | Google gives it away | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | For photo sharing | Jun 01 17:56 |
Eruaran | Google Wave will be only one 'wave' | Jun 01 17:56 |
schestowitz | No more 50MB Zips with pics in one's mailbox | Jun 01 17:56 |
Eruaran | among many | Jun 01 17:56 |
Eruaran | Anyone can implement Wave | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | Sorta | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | They have some hooks | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | Like GMail | Jun 01 17:57 |
Eruaran | Google Wave will be just a 'production ready reference' | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | I want to see if Groklaw picks it up | Jun 01 17:57 |
Eruaran | You don't have to use Gmail | Jun 01 17:57 |
Eruaran | It plugs into anything | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | Google also does enterprise search | Jun 01 17:57 |
schestowitz | This is why MS is soterrified | Jun 01 17:58 |
trmanco | pff | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | it has a Twitter clone now | Jun 01 17:58 |
trmanco | banshee for ubuntu | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | Yeah.. | Jun 01 17:58 |
trmanco | It' time for me to switch to something worthy | Jun 01 17:58 |
trmanco | like Gentoo | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | Tell them about it | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | Tell Ubuntu | Jun 01 17:58 |
Eruaran | You can tweet on twitter from Wave and your tweets are automatically updated | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | So that they feel the loss of trust due to Mono | Jun 01 17:58 |
Eruaran | You can have Ubuntu Wave | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: yes, API-oriented | Jun 01 17:58 |
schestowitz | MS doesn't know what API means | Jun 01 17:59 |
schestowitz | API means "OMG! Where is our precious lockin?" | Jun 01 17:59 |
Eruaran | If Ballmer realises what Wave represents I don't think he'll throw a chair this time... This time he'll be catatonic. | Jun 01 17:59 |
zacharym | haha | Jun 01 18:00 |
zacharym | soon google will be as hated as microsoft | Jun 01 18:00 |
zacharym | once they get power drunk | Jun 01 18:00 |
schestowitz | Government official wants to bring Three Strikes to Germany < http://www.p2p-blog.com/item-1064.html > | Jun 01 18:00 |
fewa | ^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Jun 01 18:00 |
Eruaran | For giving away their API's for free ? | Jun 01 18:00 |
fewa | actually, wave looks friggen awesome | Jun 01 18:01 |
zacharym | Just wait... | Jun 01 18:01 |
schestowitz | Search is the issue | Jun 01 18:01 |
Eruaran | Google wont control Wave | Jun 01 18:01 |
schestowitz | It's the core where Google has control | Jun 01 18:01 |
schestowitz | And it's ahrd to gain momentuim in search from 0 | Jun 01 18:01 |
schestowitz | But... Google also misuses search | Jun 01 18:01 |
schestowitz | So be careful | Jun 01 18:01 |
schestowitz | Don't give them too much credit | Jun 01 18:02 |
schestowitz | MS was seen as the white knight by some in the early 80s (battling evil IBM) | Jun 01 18:02 |
schestowitz | Google manipulated search results to promote its Apps | Jun 01 18:02 |
fewa | ^^and apple's hardware lock-in | Jun 01 18:02 |
schestowitz | So it needs some pressure to play fair | Jun 01 18:02 |
schestowitz | fewa: yes, even worse | Jun 01 18:02 |
Eruaran | Well, there's no lock-in | Jun 01 18:02 |
fewa | people need to use competitiors | Jun 01 18:02 |
fewa | Eruaran, 1984 is worse than lock in | Jun 01 18:03 |
fewa | thats what the apple ad was all about | Jun 01 18:03 |
zacharym | schestowitz: the underdog is always hailed as beating the bad guy (microsoft) in this case | Jun 01 18:03 |
schestowitz | Time Magazine, which is a strong pro-Microsoft publication, is essentially dead. < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090529/1910285056.shtml > | Jun 01 18:03 |
zacharym | schestowitz: once google goes to the top, the cycle will repeat | Jun 01 18:04 |
Eruaran | fewa: Google is giving Wave away | Jun 01 18:04 |
zacharym | it's been this way for ages | Jun 01 18:04 |
schestowitz | zacharym: yes | Jun 01 18:04 |
fewa | zacharym, and its the best free markey system | Jun 01 18:04 |
schestowitz | Best? | Jun 01 18:04 |
schestowitz | How so? | Jun 01 18:04 |
fewa | nevermind | Jun 01 18:04 |
schestowitz | I'd rather see decentralisation of software | Jun 01 18:05 |
fewa | better than other systems | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Like GNU suggests | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | No winners and loser | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | No winners and losers | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Just sharers of better s/w | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Like Apache | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Pool the patches | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Spread the software | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Mix and match GPL s/w | Jun 01 18:05 |
Eruaran | yes | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | LXDE, KDE, GNOME... | Jun 01 18:05 |
schestowitz | Imagine having the "Linux desktop environment". | Jun 01 18:06 |
schestowitz | What would we brag about? | Jun 01 18:06 |
zacharym | If there was perfect competition the market would decide which was the best and it would be used. | Jun 01 18:06 |
schestowitz | What to debate over? | Jun 01 18:06 |
fewa | thats the best | Jun 01 18:06 |
schestowitz | icon sets? | Jun 01 18:06 |
zacharym | This isn't the case with businesses such as Google/Microsoft | Jun 01 18:06 |
schestowitz | Like ages of WIndows, where some s/w GOD tells YOU what the next version you WILL use look like | Jun 01 18:06 |
fewa | yeah i take back what i just said | Jun 01 18:06 |
fewa | but its better than some systems have been in the past | Jun 01 18:07 |
*DaemonFC has quit (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?") | Jun 01 18:07 | |
schestowitz | Sure | Jun 01 18:07 |
zacharym | Google basically decides what is seen on the internet, they censor search results.... | Jun 01 18:07 |
schestowitz | GPL is not communism | Jun 01 18:07 |
zacharym | they control information in a sense | Jun 01 18:07 |
schestowitz | It's science | Jun 01 18:07 |
fewa | schestowitz, absolutely | Jun 01 18:07 |
schestowitz | So there is more than one strand | Jun 01 18:07 |
fewa | http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/05/et_tu_kk_aka_no_kevin_this_is.html | Jun 01 18:07 |
schestowitz | Communism is monoculture | Jun 01 18:07 |
fewa | lessig says it perfectally | Jun 01 18:08 |
schestowitz | The most diversity exists in Linux | Jun 01 18:08 |
schestowitz | 1000+ distros | Jun 01 18:08 |
schestowitz | People talk about all the CHOICE Linux offers | Jun 01 18:08 |
schestowitz | While at the same time libeling it as communism | Jun 01 18:08 |
schestowitz | fewa: I saw thgat | Jun 01 18:08 |
schestowitz | Yes, there are other pages I was shown where Lessig is called a commie | Jun 01 18:09 |
schestowitz | Balrog shared them here some months ago | Jun 01 18:09 |
schestowitz | Some people buy that FUD | Jun 01 18:09 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2009/05/microsoft_update_quietly_insta.html | Jun 01 18:09 |
neighborlee | nto sure you know about it, but just in case | Jun 01 18:10 |
neighborlee | not | Jun 01 18:10 |
fewa | its been around for a while | Jun 01 18:10 |
schestowitz | http://webservices.ieee.org/spectrum/downtmp.html | Jun 01 18:10 |
fewa | just and extention of your "agreement" with microsoft by installing their stuff | Jun 01 18:10 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: yes, wrote about it yesterday and will do so again | Jun 01 18:11 |
neighborlee | k | Jun 01 18:11 |
schestowitz | WIndows means "I gave my hardware to Redmond" | Jun 01 18:11 |
schestowitz | That's the short version of thwe EULA | Jun 01 18:11 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, thats the mentality behind it all..do it so no notices..or at least n ot enough notice..kinda like mono intrustion in linux...;00- | Jun 01 18:12 |
schestowitz | Passport applicants face questions on credit history < http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/06/01/236237/passport-applicants-face-questions-on-credit-history.htm > | Jun 01 18:12 |
neighborlee | so they become dependent ON it | Jun 01 18:13 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jun 01 18:13 |
schestowitz | Many people still don't know | Jun 01 18:13 |
schestowitz | Gnote shook some cages, so more people become aware of it | Jun 01 18:13 |
neighborlee | it sure did LOL | Jun 01 18:13 |
Eruaran | Its good to rattle some cages | Jun 01 18:13 |
fewa | schestowitz, the system is pretty good, a leader raises and is praised, leader hampers innovation and is hated, becomes nice commodity, we move to the next leader in the next environment | Jun 01 18:14 |
zacharym | humans are ignorant in that regard, we never learn from history | Jun 01 18:16 |
zacharym | we always mess up time and time again | Jun 01 18:16 |
fewa | well most people are not effected by it, they simply get more and better stuff, and as long as they dont fall into the FUD they move on | Jun 01 18:17 |
fewa | Its a industry self-regulation | Jun 01 18:17 |
fewa | if people dont understand the technology they must be screwed by it | Jun 01 18:19 |
schestowitz | I've just left this comment in an attack on us: | Jun 01 18:22 |
schestowitz | "I had left over 13,000 comments in Digg.com before leaving it (I was once ranked 17th in Digg.com). The same Microsoft trolls from USENET and Slashdot infested the "UNIX/Linux" section and their goal was achieved when reputation was down the drain. See Comes vs Microsoft exhibits for details about these tactics." | Jun 01 18:22 |
schestowitz | "I guess the attacks from Linuxsux (an anti-Linux site BTW, I urge you to look closely enough) simply prove that things we write are anti-anti-Linux, i.e. they annoy the anti-Linux crowd. It means these writings help GNU/Linux." | Jun 01 18:22 |
schestowitz | There this new wave of attacks on us | Jun 01 18:22 |
schestowitz | Now they modbomb against us | Jun 01 18:22 |
schestowitz | DDoS was not enough for them | Jun 01 18:22 |
schestowitz | They try to frustrate advocates of Linux | Jun 01 18:24 |
schestowitz | Basically endless attack | Jun 01 18:24 |
schestowitz | Not just DDoS on site | Jun 01 18:24 |
fewa | thats why you cant give them money | Jun 01 18:25 |
schestowitz | Also distributed attacks with smears | Jun 01 18:25 |
fewa | they just use it to attack | Jun 01 18:25 |
schestowitz | All for their mighty Vole | Jun 01 18:25 |
schestowitz | The context is that they try toi try FSDaily now | Jun 01 18:25 |
schestowitz | The manager is worried | Jun 01 18:25 |
schestowitz | They modbomb the site now | Jun 01 18:25 |
schestowitz | Like they did a year ago | Jun 01 18:26 |
schestowitz | The people who spread libel about me | Jun 01 18:26 |
schestowitz | Things like castrations and hospitals and police. All sorts of made-up stories. | Jun 01 18:26 |
schestowitz | And then they pretend all this libel does not exist. They can be sued, probably. | Jun 01 18:26 |
schestowitz | Get your SCO memorabilia while it lasts: http://blogs.computerworld.com/when_sco_is_dead_and_buried | Jun 01 18:28 |
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schestowitz | Here's one to vote for: http://slashdot.org/submission/1011151/Linux-market-share-growing-growing-growing | Jun 01 18:37 |
schestowitz | Boom for Linux: Interactive Ideas gets a lift from Linux sales < http://www.channelweb.co.uk/crn/news/2243253/interactive-ideas-gets-lift > | Jun 01 18:39 |
schestowitz | More evidence that GNU/Linux grows on the desktop: http://www.ciol.com/Developer/Operating-System/News-Reports/Developers-take-a-shift-from-Windows-to-Linux/1609120333/0/ Developers take a shift from Windows to Linux | Jun 01 18:41 |
schestowitz | No Windows in smartbooks, just GNU/Linux < http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2347890,00.asp > | Jun 01 18:42 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, LOL last post on that page: http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13604&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=7 | Jun 01 18:43 |
schestowitz | More in http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/hardware/0,39042972,62054524,00.htm and http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165820/inventec_ready_to_ship_snapdragon_laptop_in_q4.html | Jun 01 18:43 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: yes, got that | Jun 01 18:43 |
schestowitz | Seen Jose's comment? | Jun 01 18:44 |
neighborlee | heh alright | Jun 01 18:44 |
neighborlee | OH YES I did | Jun 01 18:44 |
schestowitz | Listing my employers there is *totally* worthwhile and relevant. Do you want my driving license number whilst you're at it? It starts with an "S" | Jun 01 18:44 |
neighborlee | nice one | Jun 01 18:44 |
neighborlee | LOL | Jun 01 18:44 |
schestowitz | SM1c305of5 | Jun 01 18:44 |
schestowitz | Not that it's relevant, but Oxford U is notoriously close to M1c305of5 | Jun 01 18:46 |
schestowitz | A Linux just for netbooks < http://www.telegram.com/article/20090531/NEWS/905310590/1002/BUSINESS > Why recommend Google Fog Computing) over FOSS? | Jun 01 18:47 |
schestowitz | '“This is a huge problem for companies like ours,” said David Bates, intellectual property counsel for GE Healthcare. “It’s extortion, and we do face (these problems) on a regular basis, and because of the way the system is set up we can’t possibly keep up' http://www.biztimes.com/news/2009/5/29/patent-trolls-try-to-rip-off-high-tech-firms | Jun 01 18:49 |
schestowitz | Smile! You Can Work for a Tobacco Company! < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8394 > "They then mentioned that the industry's products kill 1,200 people every day in the U.S., asked interviewees whether they thought changing the name of the company was a reasonable way to avoid bad publicity, and whether they thought they could "plead the Fifth" (pointing out that one tobacco industry executive pled the Fifth Amendment 97 times while gi | Jun 01 18:54 |
schestowitz | ving a deposition in 1997)." | Jun 01 18:54 |
schestowitz | The very ugly side of the smokassassins industry: | Jun 01 18:55 |
schestowitz | Probably similar with cellphones and airbourne broadcasting of all sorts. Some day in the future people might find out. But those able to tell their bad stories might no longer be alive. | Jun 01 18:56 |
schestowitz | More ARM devices are coming (lots of Linux): http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165824/pegatron_to_show_touchscreen_netbook_with_arm_chips.html | Jun 01 18:58 |
schestowitz | "One thought that came to mind was to dual-boot Ubuntu or have a Linux-on-a-stick. Another was to embed the computer in my skull. " http://slashdot.org/submission/1010911/Keeping-the-PC-personal-at-school | Jun 01 19:00 |
schestowitz | Bad typo -> http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/960_signs.jpg | Jun 01 19:02 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, looks like im being told to shut up ( cause how dare I expose directHEX FUD comments) or be banned..or something :) ..:: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1169322&page=2 | Jun 01 19:05 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, the most severe warning ive yet re cieved..'im rude, pushy,arrogant, and violating spirit of code of conduct'.yet directHEX can use FUD and never be called on it.. | Jun 01 19:06 |
neighborlee | they are so blind, they dont even see their own hypocrisy | Jun 01 19:06 |
*neighborlee is SO GLAD he doesn't use ubuntu | Jun 01 19:06 | |
neighborlee | http://tim.thechases.com/mononono/ < to reiterate something very important ;)),if you do use it. | Jun 01 19:07 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: he's motu now | Jun 01 19:07 |
schestowitz | special treatment | Jun 01 19:07 |
schestowitz | wait until ms bashing gets you banned too | Jun 01 19:07 |
neighborlee | why am I NOT surprised | Jun 01 19:08 |
schestowitz | show me posts | Jun 01 19:08 |
schestowitz | where they threaten | Jun 01 19:08 |
schestowitz | paste urls | Jun 01 19:08 |
neighborlee | one sec | Jun 01 19:08 |
schestowitz | I'll do a post | Jun 01 19:08 |
neighborlee | I have them somewhere.. | Jun 01 19:08 |
neighborlee | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1105996 | Jun 01 19:09 |
neighborlee | http://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthr...1166738&page=2 | Jun 01 19:10 |
neighborlee | http://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthr...ght=FUD&page=2 | Jun 01 19:10 |
neighborlee | each time HEX used FUD words..and he was not warned..though I often have been..so I called them out on it | Jun 01 19:11 |
neighborlee | and have been duly 'warned' about that too | Jun 01 19:11 |
schestowitz | Homeland Security to scan fingerprints of travellers exiting the US http://www.itnews.com.au/News/104310,homeland-security-to-scan-fingerprints-of-travellers-exiting-the-us.aspx | Jun 01 19:11 |
schestowitz | The links don't quite work | Jun 01 19:12 |
neighborlee | net is just a tad slow atm | Jun 01 19:14 |
neighborlee | they work | Jun 01 19:14 |
neighborlee | try again | Jun 01 19:14 |
schestowitz | Hulu still hates Linux. < Hulu Releases Desktop Version of Video Site > http://tech.yahoo.com/news/zd/20090528/tc_zd/240782 | Jun 01 19:14 |
schestowitz | This takes me to some index pages | Jun 01 19:15 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: what's with the .".."? | Jun 01 19:15 |
neighborlee | no idea | Jun 01 19:16 |
neighborlee | http://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1166738&page=2 | Jun 01 19:16 |
neighborlee | there sorry.. | Jun 01 19:16 |
neighborlee | http://wwww.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1153620&highlight=FUD&page=2 | Jun 01 19:16 |
neighborlee | that should do it | Jun 01 19:16 |
schestowitz | Fascinating. Virgin Galactic tests laughing-gas powered rocket motor < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/28/spaceshiptwo_rocket_test_virgin/ > | Jun 01 19:17 |
neighborlee | my 1st original link is fine though../ | Jun 01 19:17 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu forums down | Jun 01 19:17 |
neighborlee | try again | Jun 01 19:18 |
neighborlee | mine are loading here | Jun 01 19:18 |
schestowitz | Corruption in CA? California's Silent Big Spenders < http://reason.com/news/show/133772.html > | Jun 01 19:18 |
neighborlee | yeah ca has problems ,,least of all that LOL | Jun 01 19:18 |
schestowitz | Is that your dog? | Jun 01 19:18 |
neighborlee | LOL yes | Jun 01 19:19 |
neighborlee | aint she CUTE ;0- | Jun 01 19:19 |
neighborlee | ha | Jun 01 19:19 |
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schestowitz | "Intellectual Property Minister David Lammy..." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8073068.stm WTF? So now they have politicians whose title is propaganda too? | Jun 01 19:22 |
schestowitz | I had a dog like this... "Billie" | Jun 01 19:22 |
schestowitz | She dies from rat poison | Jun 01 19:22 |
schestowitz | *ied | Jun 01 19:22 |
neighborlee | oh god | Jun 01 19:22 |
schestowitz | No God. | Jun 01 19:22 |
schestowitz | :-) | Jun 01 19:22 |
neighborlee | sorry to hear taht | Jun 01 19:22 |
schestowitz | Bad luck, that's all.. | Jun 01 19:23 |
neighborlee | im sure it happens more than we'd like to know. | Jun 01 19:23 |
neighborlee | need to restart, b rb | Jun 01 19:25 |
neighborlee | 'ish ;) | Jun 01 19:25 |
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schestowitz | Our articles are being nicked again: http://www.ozelwebtasarim.com/index.php/web-haberleri/13203-the-gnulinux-hostile-mscosconf-event-misuses-the-open-source-brand | Jun 01 19:36 |
schestowitz | it's in Google News, so I guess the exposure can't be bad for the message | Jun 01 19:36 |
trmanco | whois bingsucks.com || Domain Name: BINGSUCKS.COM | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Registrar: MARKMONITOR INC. | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Whois Server: whois.markmonitor.com | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Referral URL: http://www.markmonitor.com | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Name Server: NS1.MSFT.NET | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Name Server: NS2.MSFT.NET | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Name Server: NS3.MSFT.NET | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Name Server: NS4.MSFT.NET | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | Name Server: NS5.MSFT.NET | Jun 01 19:38 |
trmanco | omfg | Jun 01 19:38 |
schestowitz | What's that? | Jun 01 19:40 |
schestowitz | MSFT.NET | Jun 01 19:40 |
schestowitz | http://msft.net/ | Jun 01 19:40 |
schestowitz | Oops! This link appears to be broken. | Jun 01 19:40 |
trmanco | oops | Jun 01 19:41 |
trmanco | oh | Jun 01 19:41 |
trmanco | those are microsofts nameservers | Jun 01 19:41 |
trmanco | is has more | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Administrative Contact: | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Domain Administrator | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Microsoft Corporation | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | One Microsoft Way | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Redmond WA 98052 | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | US | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | domains@microsoft.com +1.4258828080 Fax: +1.4259367329 | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Technical Contact, Zone Contact: | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | MSN Hostmaster | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Microsoft Corporation | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | One Microsoft Way | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | Redmond WA 98052 | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | US | Jun 01 19:42 |
trmanco | msnhst@microsoft.com +1.4258828080 Fax: +1.4259367329 | Jun 01 19:42 |
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schestowitz | Thanks. | Jun 01 19:47 |
trmanco | go ahead and confirm it, do a whois from your console | Jun 01 19:51 |
schestowitz | Typical Microsoft: Bing.com no gentlemen when you run Opera web browser < http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/bing-com-no-gentlemen-when-you-run-opera-web-browser/ > | Jun 01 19:56 |
schestowitz | Bing has been smoking the bong | Jun 01 19:56 |
schestowitz | trmanco: no need. I will post about it tonight | Jun 01 19:56 |
schestowitz | I'll just post some news to COLA in a mo' | Jun 01 19:56 |
schestowitz | I made no posts to BN today | Jun 01 19:57 |
schestowitz | Did over 30 over the weekend ;-) | Jun 01 19:57 |
schestowitz | Debate about LSB are very hot today: http://www.raiden.net/articles/oh_no__linux_standardization_is_the_end_of_the_world__not/ Oh no! Linux standardization is the end of the world!! Not! | Jun 01 20:02 |
schestowitz | Apple and Microsoft shareholder uses old blog posts to curse FOSS: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133719 | Jun 01 20:05 |
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trmanco | ok | Jun 01 20:31 |
trmanco | grr, my fan is noisy | Jun 01 20:31 |
trmanco | 30ºC here today | Jun 01 20:32 |
trmanco | the last 2 days were even worse | Jun 01 20:32 |
MinceR | you mean 30°C? :> | Jun 01 20:46 |
trmanco | what's the difference | Jun 01 20:53 |
trmanco | º meh, cant find the char | Jun 01 20:54 |
trmanco | that* | Jun 01 20:54 |
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mtnd3w | Hello. | Jun 01 20:54 |
trmanco | pff | Jun 01 20:58 |
trmanco | testing bing0 | Jun 01 20:58 |
trmanco | hi | Jun 01 20:58 |
trmanco | AFAICS | Jun 01 21:00 |
trmanco | it's the same live crap, with some lipstick | Jun 01 21:00 |
schestowitz | Hot here too | Jun 01 21:06 |
schestowitz | Almost 30 degree centigrade | Jun 01 21:07 |
MinceR | 'º' is an ordinal indicator :> | Jun 01 21:11 |
mtnd3w | guys, vote this idea: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20016/ | Jun 01 21:11 |
mtnd3w | vote down mono/banshee | Jun 01 21:11 |
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trmanco | MinceR, yeah, but I can't find the other one | Jun 01 21:16 |
MinceR | i typed it with compose,o,o | Jun 01 21:17 |
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_Hicham_ | Hi Mr Schestowitz! | Jun 01 21:22 |
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schestowitz | People keep trying to associate Darwin with World Wars!@@$$ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB4BWPeyMpQ&NR=1 | Jun 01 21:46 |
_Goblin | hi, im back | Jun 01 21:49 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC is a little quiet. | Jun 01 21:50 |
trmanco | Savannah was down | Jun 01 21:50 |
_Goblin | just had the most silly argument with a chap who works at Blockbuster and labels MACos as "trash" | Jun 01 21:52 |
_Goblin | of course he thinks Vista and Zune are great. | Jun 01 21:53 |
_Goblin | and as you would expect, he's allegedly tried Linux and doesnt like it. | Jun 01 21:54 |
MinceR | macos is trash | Jun 01 21:54 |
_Goblin | grrr! | Jun 01 21:54 |
_Goblin | ;) | Jun 01 21:54 |
MinceR | well, except for the parts they've ripped off FLOSS projects. | Jun 01 21:55 |
MinceR | but they've managed to build trash out of them. | Jun 01 21:55 |
_Goblin | even I don't think Vista is "trash" as it offers some functionality... | Jun 01 21:55 |
_Goblin | not much though | Jun 01 21:55 |
_Goblin | I think when people declare an OS are merely "trash" it cheapens the whole alternative to Microsoft debate... | Jun 01 21:56 |
_Goblin | afterall, MACos can't be too trashy since their profits from last quarter would suggest that there are many stupid people. | Jun 01 21:57 |
_Goblin | horses for courses... | Jun 01 21:57 |
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_Goblin | I don't particularly have a problem with Vista, its merely the methods used to pimp it. If it was simply another option out there, it wouldn't be a problem, afterall Im sure we are all advocates of freedom of choice. | Jun 01 21:59 |
_Goblin | Vista could then be presented on a level playing field with Linux... | Jun 01 22:00 |
schestowitz | Alistar McGrath made a career by using other people's names and slamming them in book titles. Sad, very sad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBRKY8Qx9YQ&feature=channel | Jun 01 22:00 |
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schestowitz | Just posted some daily links | Jun 01 22:01 |
schestowitz | I'll do a quick marathon of poats | Jun 01 22:01 |
schestowitz | *sts | Jun 01 22:01 |
MinceR | _Goblin: there are many stupid people indeed. | Jun 01 22:03 |
MinceR | is that news? :> | Jun 01 22:03 |
_Goblin | Not really, only that it highlights why maybe MS has been allowed to rule the roost for so long. | Jun 01 22:04 |
_Goblin | word of mouth by people who, for whatever reason buy into the myth. | Jun 01 22:04 |
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_Goblin | the chap was arguing a point with no justification. I wonder how many MS supporters actually know why they support the products? | Jun 01 22:06 |
_Goblin | I think you can blame the marketing tactics that sadly some people these days still buy into (and that goes for any advert in my book) | Jun 01 22:07 |
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tacone | softpedia: Application of the Month: Rhythmbox (ironic, uh ?) | Jun 01 22:08 |
trmanco | U.S. Army servers breached by Turkish hackers: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-307208.html | Jun 01 22:11 |
trmanco | "Investigators believe an SQL injection attack was used to exploit a vulnerability in Microsoft's SQL Server database in order to gain access to the servers. " | Jun 01 22:11 |
trmanco | haha | Jun 01 22:11 |
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*schestowitz done watching.. Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson - American Atheists < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg > | Jun 01 22:15 | |
schestowitz | trmanco: see yesterday's post about the Turkish hack | Jun 01 22:15 |
trmanco | ah, so you already covered it | Jun 01 22:16 |
schestowitz | trmanco: yes, see recent posts | Jun 01 22:40 |
schestowitz | Many good ones, IMHO | Jun 01 22:40 |
trmanco | ok | Jun 01 22:41 |
schestowitz | Good one meaning that the material reference is important | Jun 01 22:41 |
schestowitz | I only rely on the sources | Jun 01 22:41 |
schestowitz | Microsoft-Influenced Net Applications Won’t Share Its Data < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/net-applications-secretive-insistence/ > | Jun 01 22:41 |
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tacone | omfg | Jun 01 22:46 |
tacone | what's this ? http://lwn.net/Articles/333825/ | Jun 01 22:46 |
trmanco | schestowitz, the site is still slow | Jun 01 22:47 |
tacone | schestowitz: saw my link ? | Jun 01 22:48 |
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schestowitz | yes, we have aggressive firewalls | Jun 01 23:02 |
schestowitz | tacone: I saw it this mornign | Jun 01 23:02 |
schestowitz | I was gonna write about it. I told RMS too | Jun 01 23:03 |
mtnd3w | tacone just read that, wow. | Jun 01 23:05 |
schestowitz | trmanco: hold on.. | Jun 01 23:06 |
schestowitz | Maybe there's a fix | Jun 01 23:06 |
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tacone | the fix is writing microsoft is like a good daddy | Jun 01 23:07 |
mtnd3w | "Avoiding DRM is not something that has gotten onto the radar of most consumers, but the content providers are doing their best to raise its visibility." | Jun 01 23:07 |
tacone | then the dos will suddenly stop. | Jun 01 23:07 |
mtnd3w | this is so true, consumers most of the time argue for the companies | Jun 01 23:08 |
tacone | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3585051300_d23a37a32e_o.png | Jun 01 23:09 |
tacone | lol the first result | Jun 01 23:13 |
tacone | http://www.michaelhorowitz.com/Linux.vs.Windows.html | Jun 01 23:13 |
tacone | Switching to a new layout would be a major disruption and thus have to pay back in a major way. I don't think desktop versions of Linux will pay back enough to encourage people to switch. | Jun 01 23:14 |
tacone | the second.. http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm | Jun 01 23:14 |
tacone | zomfg | Jun 01 23:14 |
schestowitz | OOXML BRM Convenor (Alex Brown) Joins the Pro-Mirosoft Wikipedia Spinners < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/standards-consortia-cronyism-odf/ > | Jun 01 23:18 |
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Papa_Chango | Hey folks, I was just curious if there are still DOS attacks on BN? the past week has varied between slow (not so much the main page but reachies the stories) and not working .. i can access the links now but not the articles | Jun 01 23:22 |
schestowitz | Yeah, we have this issue | Jun 01 23:28 |
schestowitz | Firewalls against DDoS | Jun 01 23:28 |
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schestowitz | I've just tested it | Jun 01 23:40 |
schestowitz | It's indeed pretty poor | Jun 01 23:41 |
tacone | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-decision-engine/ | Jun 01 23:41 |
schestowitz | Not responsive or rejected | Jun 01 23:41 |
schestowitz | False positives | Jun 01 23:41 |
schestowitz | tacone: thanks, I'll write about it now | Jun 01 23:42 |
tacone | uhm, don't know if it's a serious enough topic | Jun 01 23:43 |
tacone | lol | Jun 01 23:43 |
schestowitz | “Microsoft Cannot be Trusted!” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/good-luck-developing-for-windows/ > | Jun 01 23:52 |
schestowitz | tacone: part of a much bigger post | Jun 01 23:52 |
schestowitz | I'll do it now | Jun 01 23:52 |
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