IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 2nd, 2009

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schestowitzIs This Bing or is it Bong? <  http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/is-this-bing-or-is-it-bong/ >Jun 02 00:22
taconelolJun 02 00:23
taconejust received the pingbackJun 02 00:23
taconenice titleJun 02 00:23
neighborleeschestowitz, site seems downJun 02 00:24
neighborleeschestowitz, at least base url isJun 02 00:24
neighborleeok,its just very slowJun 02 00:26
taconenice post !Jun 02 00:26
schestowitzneighborlee: there's something with the filtersJun 02 00:28
schestowitzTrying to keep the DDoS outJun 02 00:28
neighborleeah icJun 02 00:28
schestowitzdid this happen before?Jun 02 00:33
schestowitzIf so, when?Jun 02 00:33
schestowitzIt seems to be an issue that started like 5 days agoJun 02 00:33
schestowitztessier knows about it...Jun 02 00:33
neighborleeif you mean me,,I just noticed it today..as in last hour'ish or soJun 02 00:33
MinceRgnJun 02 00:36
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schestowitzDoes Ubuntu Forums Threaten to Ban Opposition to Mono? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/banning-opposition-to-mono/ >Jun 02 00:55
taconea little bit too far imhoJun 02 01:05
_Goblinjust read some of the posts there.Jun 02 01:26
_Goblinbang out of order...seems like Ubuntu forums are taking tips from Vista ones.Jun 02 01:26
_GoblinI was trying to decide if Ubuntu should stay on my second rig....Jun 02 01:27
_Goblinit wont be, I'll be happier with Mandriva.Jun 02 01:27
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schestowitzLinux DRM Warning < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/01/linux-drm-warning/ >Jun 02 01:32
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*schestowitz removing all the Google ads from BNJun 02 02:10
schestowitzoiaohm: ever had connectivity issues with the site recently?Jun 02 02:10
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oiaohmCannot tell I am on limited speed at moment schestowitz.  I broke my quota downloading a few things.   I forgot to correct update server on a few distributions I run in my test room.Jun 02 02:15
schestowitzWhat about BN?Jun 02 02:16
schestowitzAny issues connecting to it? Or slowness?Jun 02 02:16
oiaohmMy complete connection is slowed.Jun 02 02:16
oiaohmSo even if BN was playing up at moment unless it completely stops I cannot tell.Jun 02 02:17
oiaohmIf I had detected I problem I would be telling you schestowitz.Jun 02 02:17
schestowitzThanks!Jun 02 02:18
schestowitzBecause we have some issues.Jun 02 02:18
oiaohmhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/Hinchcliffe/?p=400  Who would think it a good write up about google waves.Jun 02 02:18
schestowitzConnevtivity issues due to an aggressive firewall (there are still zombies knocking on the site every now and then and it's better to serve poorlyt than not to serve at all)Jun 02 02:18
schestowitzoiaohm: lots about it out there alreadyJun 02 02:18
schestowitzoiaohm: it looks niceJun 02 02:19
schestowitzWe discussed it earlierJun 02 02:19
oiaohmIts a well writen artical cover how to will effect business.Jun 02 02:19
schestowitzVERY disruptive to SharePoint, Exchange, Outlook (Office)Jun 02 02:19
oiaohmYep Google has send a nuke into MS hart land.Jun 02 02:19
oiaohmWonder if wordpress will add wave support.Jun 02 02:20
schestowitzGood pointJun 02 02:21
schestowitzI should get some sleep now. Back later..Jun 02 02:21
oiaohmIt could be the bridging tech we have need to glue the open source web stack into one bit.Jun 02 02:21
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yuhongAfter reading about cynical views of Sun's open source efforts as well as software patents, I find this interesting reading:Jun 02 02:32
yuhonghttp://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/what_we_didJun 02 02:33
oiaohmThat is what most people don't get sun really could have kept on running without selling out to orcale or anyone else.   But sooner or latter vs IBM and the like it becomes scale.Jun 02 02:42
fewatrmanco, http://bing-sucks.com/Jun 02 02:44
yuhongWhat scale problems?Jun 02 02:45
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oiaohmScale of coverage yuhong.   IBM and Orcales software solutions stack is huge.   IBM tries to do IBM everything.  Hardware software the works.Jun 02 02:47
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oiaohmThe big ones are very quickly turning into total solution providers.Jun 02 02:48
fewaNIHJun 02 02:48
fewa"Bravely reimplemented by the knights who say 'NIH'."Jun 02 02:49
yuhongI get it now.Jun 02 02:50
oiaohmSun basically could see the writing on the wall on this yuhong.   They need to get bigger quick not to end up on the wrong side of the total solution game.  Fast way to get big is get aquired by someone big.Jun 02 02:50
fewaugggh, that stuff is poisonous to the marketJun 02 02:50
fewaall about lock inJun 02 02:50
oiaohmIts not all about locking.Jun 02 02:51
oiaohmIt part about shipping costs fewaJun 02 02:51
oiaohmIf you can send all parts from 1 location its cheaper than sending parts from all different locations.Jun 02 02:51
oiaohmIt is a scale issue more than a lockin one fewa.Jun 02 02:52
fewawat? its not like IBM actually makes their own hardware that anyone buys right?Jun 02 02:52
oiaohmServers yes IBM makes them and lot of people buy them fewaJun 02 02:52
fewabut they are made in taiwanJun 02 02:53
oiaohmSame with there clients to go with server.Jun 02 02:53
fewabuy the same fabs that make all consumer x86 stuffJun 02 02:53
oiaohmAre all made in the same location.Jun 02 02:53
oiaohmThere is no chance to this selection by Dell or IBM doing this fewaJun 02 02:54
oiaohmSimple means you can put all a businesses order on the least number of palets and ship them.Jun 02 02:54
oiaohmYou also need the CRM software and other software to go with it fewa.   So its a solution open boxed put them on tables plug them in and go.Jun 02 02:57
oiaohmDeployment time reduction.Jun 02 02:58
oiaohmThere will always be a place in the market for solution providers.   Preferably open source solution providers so we can have open competition.Jun 02 02:59
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yuhongOn the matter of solutions, Oracle don't support running it's own software in any VM software other than Oracle VM.Jun 02 03:07
yuhongOr even licensing it.Jun 02 03:08
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fewaNIHJun 02 03:09
yuhonghttp://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett/?p=916Jun 02 03:09
yuhongActually, this is for another unrelated part. Let me dig up another link.Jun 02 03:09
yuhonghttp://chucksblog.emc.com/chucks_blog/2009/05/why-oracle-doesnt-like-vmware.htmlJun 02 03:11
yuhonghttp://www.virtualization.info/2009/05/emc-attacks-oracle-on-its-vmware.htmlJun 02 03:11
oiaohmyuhong: Orcale as what they call certified solutions.Jun 02 03:13
yuhongYep.Jun 02 03:13
oiaohmRedhat KVM is certified.Jun 02 03:13
fewaxen isnt even that goodJun 02 03:14
oiaohmso its not just Orcales vm.Jun 02 03:14
fewaKVM kicks its pants offJun 02 03:14
oiaohmUbuntu currently is trying to get good enought to pass Orcale certification.Jun 02 03:14
oiaohmBy the way its free to be insepected for certification.Jun 02 03:15
oiaohmXen to get certification has to get its interfaces patches into the main Linux kernel tree.   Since Orcale will not allow being locked to using old kernels  for hardware interfacing to pass.Jun 02 03:19
oiaohmFor Xen that appears to be sometime in 2010.Jun 02 03:19
fewaneverJun 02 03:19
fewathey wil just port the xen tools to kvmJun 02 03:20
oiaohmXen is moving there interfaces to more standard ones fewa.Jun 02 03:20
fewaxen is useless and too much to maintainJun 02 03:20
oiaohmWith the moves in Linux kernel and Xen 2010 is possiable.Jun 02 03:20
fewaall paravirt is becoming hardware accelerated, IOMMU, virt processor extentions, etcJun 02 03:21
fewamakes xen worthlessJun 02 03:21
oiaohmXen is also a microkernelJun 02 03:21
fewakernel developers dont want to maintain xen because it is obsoeteJun 02 03:22
oiaohmThere is a tech advantage to that fewa.Jun 02 03:22
oiaohmXen has to restruct but still might have a use.Jun 02 03:22
fewaie KVMJun 02 03:22
oiaohmType I and type II hypervisors.Jun 02 03:22
oiaohmKVM is type IIJun 02 03:22
oiaohmXen is type IJun 02 03:23
fewatype 1 is useless, its like having a BIOSJun 02 03:23
oiaohmType I is styled after a BIOS yes.Jun 02 03:23
fewaits an extra set of drivers, interfaces, etc that are not worth maintainingJun 02 03:23
fewaits uselessJun 02 03:23
oiaohmType I + hardware.Jun 02 03:23
oiaohmAllows drivers to be spreed between OS's contained without requiring TypeII flags to tell host OS not to use the hardware.Jun 02 03:24
oiaohmBoth type I and type II have there places.Jun 02 03:24
fewaI dont see a single reason why kernel developers need xen, and every reason why xen needs the kernelJun 02 03:25
fewathe best solution is to port xen tools to kvmJun 02 03:25
oiaohmKernel developers are forcing xen down the standistation path.Jun 02 03:25
oiaohmThat is right right.Jun 02 03:25
oiaohmBasically kvm is not perfect for every solution fewaJun 02 03:26
fewawhat about with IOMMU?Jun 02 03:27
fewathats only a year or so away till being mainstreamJun 02 03:27
oiaohmType I come into there own with due to the fact the controlling OS may have no interconntion with hosted OS's.Jun 02 03:27
fewawill take xen's last advantages away in a much cleaner mannerJun 02 03:27
oiaohmIts harder to attack something if you cannot interface with it.Jun 02 03:28
fewabut the processor provides that securityJun 02 03:28
fewawith the -1 processor stateJun 02 03:29
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oiaohmparadrivers in a type I can be run in a split of section to the controller.  That is the difference fewaJun 02 03:29
oiaohmSo far KVM type II does not provide that.  To be correct no type II does fewa.Jun 02 03:31
oiaohmIf KVM gets that ablity it would move upto a type I.Jun 02 03:31
fewaYou just run a very small host and bingo its a type IJun 02 03:35
fewalinux can be embedded, etcJun 02 03:35
oiaohmKVM cannot redirect virtual network drivers and the like into one of it contained zones.Jun 02 03:36
oiaohmThis is why its not type IJun 02 03:36
oiaohmembedding does not change that.Jun 02 03:37
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oiaohmFeature to support that would make it a type I when built with a cut back kernel fewa.Jun 02 03:37
fewabut linux is a cut back kernel if you compile it that wayJun 02 03:38
oiaohmProblem is then you don't have the virtual network to talk between hosts.Jun 02 03:38
oiaohmThere are some virtual drivers that hypervisters have to provide.Jun 02 03:39
oiaohmHow they are provided is the major difference between type I and type IIJun 02 03:39
oiaohmIts also the reason why type II has a slightly lower security rating then type IJun 02 03:41
oiaohmIOMMU allowed type I to be build even stronger.  Like having para disk control network time  drivers split off into own zones so an attacker can only take down each driver 1 at a time.Jun 02 03:43
oiaohmI would love to see in time kvm move up to support operating in a type I mode.Jun 02 03:44
oiaohmType II are more often than not faster than type I.   Secuirty costs speed.Jun 02 03:47
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DaemonFCVLC makes a pretty good DVD playerJun 02 03:48
oiaohmhttp://www.videolan.org/vlc/skineditor.html  Can be nicer skined DaemonFCJun 02 03:52
DaemonFCfor some reason it opened in WMP even though I told it not toJun 02 03:53
DaemonFC:PJun 02 03:53
*DaemonFC fixed itJun 02 03:53
DaemonFCI wish there was a way to lock your file associationsJun 02 03:53
DaemonFCeverything that can handle a certain type tries to steal it back everytime you open itJun 02 03:53
oiaohmThere is uninstall WMPJun 02 03:53
oiaohmOr under Linux write protect the file that holds associations.Jun 02 03:54
oiaohmI think you can do that in the windows reg as well setting acls in there but its a pain in the ass.Jun 02 03:56
DaemonFCI seem to remember a tool that could do thatJun 02 03:57
oiaohmhttp://www.videolan.org/vlc/skineditor.htmlJun 02 03:57
oiaohmOpps wrong linkJun 02 03:57
oiaohmhttp://www.windowsecurity.com/articles/Securing_the_Windows_2000_Registry.htmlJun 02 03:57
oiaohmYep you can DaemonFCJun 02 03:57
oiaohmLast time I set it on windows about 3 years ago.  WMP would crash if it could not set keys.Jun 02 03:58
DaemonFCWinamp loads an "Agent" that lices in the system tray and can steal back its file type handlersJun 02 03:58
DaemonFClolJun 02 03:58
DaemonFC*livesJun 02 03:59
oiaohmIf you find it still doing the same of course tell me DaemonFCJun 02 03:59
oiaohmThis is when Linux mulit file nature rocks.Jun 02 04:01
DaemonFCthis movie is funnier than hell so farJun 02 04:02
DaemonFCI rented some out of the redbox machine with promo codesJun 02 04:02
oiaohmhttp://daerd.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/gsoc-and-doing-pixel-operations-on-the-gpu/  Hmm gimp could get quite a speed boost.Jun 02 04:05
DaemonFCI don't really know how they rent those so cheapJun 02 04:06
DaemonFCprobably counting on people to forget they have them so they can charge the maximum price for the discJun 02 04:06
oiaohmHow much labour DaemonFC.Jun 02 04:06
DaemonFCwell, it's $1 a night to rent the discJun 02 04:06
DaemonFCthat's not badJun 02 04:06
DaemonFCit's about $6-8 per ticket to go to the moviesJun 02 04:07
oiaohmMost people are not aware most of rental stores charages is to make proft and cover staff.Jun 02 04:07
DaemonFCor about $5 to rent the movie on your cable boxJun 02 04:07
oiaohmOk where are you?Jun 02 04:07
DaemonFCIndiana, United StatesJun 02 04:07
DaemonFCyeah, these are just out of a vending machineJun 02 04:07
oiaohmIts 8 dollars AUD a week to rent from a normal store.Jun 02 04:08
DaemonFCthey have about 50 titles in the machineJun 02 04:08
oiaohmSo about 4 Dollars USD.Jun 02 04:08
oiaohmYou are getting ripped.Jun 02 04:08
DaemonFCthe rental stores here are all going brokeJun 02 04:08
yuhongAnyway, you missed my point.Jun 02 04:08
DaemonFCclosing storesJun 02 04:08
oiaohmIts 12 dollars to see it in the theather.Jun 02 04:08
DaemonFCnot enough businessJun 02 04:08
yuhonghttp://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/what_we_didJun 02 04:08
oiaohmBoy USA is expensive.Jun 02 04:09
DaemonFCthere's so many ways to rent a movie anymore that there's no profit in a rental storeJun 02 04:09
oiaohmThere is profit it ours here.Jun 02 04:09
yuhongHere is a quote that relates to the point I am talking about.Jun 02 04:09
yuhong" We didn't erect barriers to exit, we promoted customer choice. Even when it cut the wrong way, as it did here. And yes, it hurt."Jun 02 04:09
DaemonFCminimum wage here is like $7.25 an hour I thinkJun 02 04:09
DaemonFCas of this summerJun 02 04:09
yuhong"We were invited by one company to sue the beneficiaries of open source. We declined. We could join another and sue our customers."Jun 02 04:09
oiaohmThat is lower than ours DaemonFC.Jun 02 04:10
DaemonFCto get Bush to even sign that, the Dems had to give him some horrible concessionsJun 02 04:10
DaemonFCit was $5.15/ hrJun 02 04:10
oiaohmDoes you rental stores sell disks as well.Jun 02 04:10
DaemonFCand the Republicans were arguing that the poor don't deserve a raiseJun 02 04:10
DaemonFCand that's why they're poorJun 02 04:10
DaemonFCnice huh?Jun 02 04:10
oiaohmour video rental stores you can either buy or rent.Jun 02 04:10
oiaohmNew and used as well.Jun 02 04:11
DaemonFCwell, states and localities can sign higher minimum wages, but then that just chases jobs into a cheaper stateJun 02 04:11
DaemonFCor a cheaper cityJun 02 04:11
DaemonFCor just out of the country since they're moving anywayJun 02 04:11
oiaohmI think your rental stores over there most likely did not move with the times.Jun 02 04:11
DaemonFCCanada is a popular place to go if you need some skill that the Mexicans don't haveJun 02 04:12
oiaohmSelling movies is just as much a core business to rent them for them here.Jun 02 04:12
DaemonFCcause healthcare is 2nd biggest cost behind payrollJun 02 04:12
DaemonFCI think taxes are number 4Jun 02 04:12
oiaohmTax you guys are cheaper.Jun 02 04:13
DaemonFCpayroll is not the biggest reason for outsourcingJun 02 04:13
DaemonFCin fact, it hardly even makes the top 10Jun 02 04:13
DaemonFCmost companies want to outsource because of healthcare, and to evade environmental protection and worker safeety lawsJun 02 04:13
oiaohmAnswer my question did video rental stores over there sell as well as rent.Jun 02 04:13
DaemonFCthey can set up shop in some east asian or central American shitholeJun 02 04:13
DaemonFCand just fuck people to deathJun 02 04:14
oiaohmIf they did not they were dead men walking.Jun 02 04:14
DaemonFCmehJun 02 04:14
DaemonFCnot really their businessJun 02 04:14
DaemonFCmost just sell stuff that's not rentingJun 02 04:14
DaemonFCout of a bargain binJun 02 04:14
oiaohmThat is why they died.Jun 02 04:14
oiaohmPeople come in to buy a movie.  They see another interesting movie they don't want to buy so they rent it.Jun 02 04:15
oiaohmso they profit.Jun 02 04:15
oiaohmThe renting brings the back to see more and hopefully either buy or rent more.Jun 02 04:15
oiaohmVery good plan really.Jun 02 04:15
DaemonFCwell, buying a DVD isn't that much more than renting oneJun 02 04:15
DaemonFCit was a lot more profitable to rent them out for $5 for a few nights when DVDs were $25Jun 02 04:16
DaemonFC5 times as expensive as to rentJun 02 04:16
oiaohmMostly they only rent new releases here.Jun 02 04:16
DaemonFCno a DVD is only $5-10Jun 02 04:16
DaemonFCso there's just no value it rentingJun 02 04:16
DaemonFC*nowJun 02 04:16
oiaohmThe cheap movies you might as well sell.Jun 02 04:16
oiaohmThe stores here worked that out and did it.Jun 02 04:16
oiaohmSo are living very well.Jun 02 04:16
oiaohmReduces numbers of disks to repair and all.Jun 02 04:17
DaemonFCanything in the movie or music business here tries to bury their heads in the sandJun 02 04:17
DaemonFCand pretend it's 15 years agoJun 02 04:17
DaemonFCann the way to bankruptcyJun 02 04:17
DaemonFCthen blames it on the economy or piracyJun 02 04:17
DaemonFC*allJun 02 04:17
oiaohmNormal USA idiots I bet they still have the old contract that the australian video stores sued over and broke that don't allow them to sell anything bar used.Jun 02 04:18
DaemonFCthe way business laws work in the US, it's easier to get in, get rich, fuck over the company, and let it dieJun 02 04:18
DaemonFCthan to bother to run it for sustainable profitJun 02 04:18
oiaohmHere is more evil.Jun 02 04:18
oiaohmCurrently we are needing laws to deal with it.Jun 02 04:19
DaemonFCyou have people like Jack WelchJun 02 04:19
DaemonFCwho took over RCA and stole $1 billion (BILLTION!!!) from the employee pensionsJun 02 04:19
DaemonFCthen shut the place downJun 02 04:19
DaemonFCand sold what was left to ThomsonJun 02 04:19
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DaemonFCthey can't nail him either because there was no specific law against how he did it at the timeJun 02 04:20
DaemonFCthere is now, but they can't prosecute himJun 02 04:20
oiaohmStart a company get it running well.  Make the companies die on paper.  Get rid of the employees paying nothing really.  Buy company from recieves rename start it back up repeat.Jun 02 04:20
fewaHenry paulsonJun 02 04:20
DaemonFCso basically in America, if you find a new, innovative way to rip people off for a bunch of moneyJun 02 04:20
DaemonFCthat nobody has ever done beforeJun 02 04:20
DaemonFCyou get to keep it allJun 02 04:20
DaemonFCand walk freeJun 02 04:20
oiaohmHere we have some of the best at it.Jun 02 04:20
oiaohmThey go to the USA and become CEO's over there.Jun 02 04:20
fewaHenry PaulsonJun 02 04:21
oiaohm Jack Welch  also did what was known as bottom of the harbour companies over here.   Company takes a whole pile of investers buys a huge stack of things magically goes bank rupt after all the goods have turned up and are paid for and gets aquired from the recieves for almost nothing.Jun 02 04:23
oiaohmSo huge mothers of profit DaemonFCJun 02 04:23
oiaohmhttp://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_43 So perfectJun 02 04:32
*DaemonFC wonders when VLC will play Blu RayJun 02 04:33
DaemonFCI'm thinking that will be a tougher nut to crack than brute forcing the 40-bit cipher on a DVDJun 02 04:33
DaemonFCwell, without tripping all over the DMCA at leastJun 02 04:33
oiaohmFrom memory it plays the non protected ones.Jun 02 04:35
oiaohmNot all BluRay disk are encrypted.Jun 02 04:35
DaemonFCwell, the problem is that with Windows, you need to buy a seperate Blu Ray playerJun 02 04:38
DaemonFCand with Linux, I don't think you can play them at allJun 02 04:38
DaemonFCback with DVD, Microsoft just referred you to buy a $50 codec to get playback unles you had XP MCE, and still does if you have Vista Basic or BusinessJun 02 04:39
DaemonFCand that's a damned ripoff when the whole OS probably only cost you $80-100Jun 02 04:39
DaemonFCyou get Home Basic OEM for like $80, and the DVD codec from Cyberlink is $40 nowJun 02 04:40
oiaohmYou can buy powerdvd for Linux as well DaemonFCJun 02 04:40
DaemonFCthe Cyberlink and WinDVD software and all that usually had a crippleware version that came with new PCs or a disc driveJun 02 04:41
oiaohmNot pay its still possiable.Jun 02 04:41
oiaohmPain in ass but still possiable.Jun 02 04:41
DaemonFCbut I never really understood why anyone paid for itJun 02 04:41
DaemonFCVLC makes a pretty good DVD playerJun 02 04:41
DaemonFCand you have to buy the Ultimate version of that other stuff to get upscaling and suchJun 02 04:41
DaemonFCI wasn't real impressed with the upscaling when I watched Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on of the ultimate PowerDVDJun 02 04:42
DaemonFCit looked fairly cheesyJun 02 04:42
DaemonFCand stretchedJun 02 04:43
DaemonFCI mean I know that upscaling players stretch the image, but it shouldn't just look stretchedJun 02 04:43
DaemonFCit's advertised as "Near HD"Jun 02 04:43
oiaohmLinux not having free versions of powerdvd and wanting to play blueray without ripping the bugger to disk kinda get motiveJun 02 04:45
oiaohmWindows I understand you call DaemonFCJun 02 04:45
DaemonFCwell unfortunately to have "legitimate" playback means not breaking the copy restriction crapJun 02 04:45
DaemonFCbut with Blu Ray that crap takes so much processing time that just wanting rid of it for that is a valid complaintJun 02 04:46
oiaohmDepends where.Jun 02 04:46
DaemonFCI just want to watch the movie without the computer having to rev up the fans, lose battery life, turn off AERO, and be slow as shitJun 02 04:46
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oiaohmWine cannot run powerdvd well yet because it blocks its off loading to video card.Jun 02 04:47
DaemonFCand that's exacltly what Blu Ray copy restriction doesJun 02 04:47
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oiaohmBasically one day buying powerdvd for Linux will be as pointless as windows.Jun 02 04:47
DaemonFCso that's why I don't have a BD drive and won't til the copy restriction crap is brokenJun 02 04:48
DaemonFCbuying DVD playback is already pointlessJun 02 04:48
DaemonFClibdvdcss works and is freeJun 02 04:48
oiaohmAnd works better.Jun 02 04:48
oiaohmDisks that play up in powerdvd still play with vlc.Jun 02 04:48
DaemonFCI haven't ran into any DVDs that VLC can't unlockJun 02 04:49
oiaohmI have one that takes it 50 mins first time.Jun 02 04:50
oiaohmBut it gets there in the end.Jun 02 04:50
oiaohmrest take a few seconds.Jun 02 04:50
DaemonFCVLC still makes a better DVD player than most of the for-pay onesJun 02 04:51
DaemonFCand certainly better than the codec that comes with WindowsJun 02 04:51
oiaohmNon encrypted disks mplayerhq currently plays bluerays the best.Jun 02 04:52
DaemonFCany commercial disc is encryptedJun 02 04:52
oiaohmNot all of themJun 02 04:52
DaemonFCpast that it's just an MPEG-2 fileJun 02 04:52
oiaohmFunny enough some movies had to be released without due to the extra load the encryption was causing on top of decoding.Jun 02 04:53
DaemonFCwhich ones?Jun 02 04:54
oiaohmmplayer -vc ffvc1 /media/KING_KONG/HVDVD_TS/FEATURE*EVO  << Basically if mplayerhq can play them just as files the disk is not encrypted.  There is no requirement for them to label what ones are DRM and what ones are not.Jun 02 04:58
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oiaohmReally if something is DRM I really think it should have to be labeled DaemonFC so consumers can vote with feet.Jun 02 04:59
DaemonFCI called Macrovision once and asked if there was any way to tell if a disc was crippled with their stuffJun 02 04:59
DaemonFCand they actualyl acted kind of offendedJun 02 04:59
DaemonFC:PJun 02 04:59
oiaohmIf the disk is regional coded its legal for me to crack it here.Jun 02 05:02
oiaohmEncryption protections no longer apply.Jun 02 05:02
oiaohmAustralian law basically forbids regional coding.Jun 02 05:02
DaemonFCheh. here you can be busted if someone doesn't like the art you haveJun 02 05:04
DaemonFCgo to prison for the rest of your lifeJun 02 05:04
DaemonFCif the cops get a warrant to search your house, they take all the computer discs and thumb drives they findJun 02 05:04
DaemonFCand look at what's on all of themJun 02 05:04
oiaohmSony lost a case here over mod chips due to regional coding.Jun 02 05:04
DaemonFCmaybe they'll get lucky and be able to bust you on some other charge if they can't nab you on the reason they went in there forJun 02 05:05
DaemonFCit's just a fishing expeditionJun 02 05:05
oiaohmTechincal prevention method to copy right breach here is not allowed to be descrimitatory.Jun 02 05:05
oiaohmIt must treat everyone on earth equal.Jun 02 05:05
oiaohmRegional coding breaches that.Jun 02 05:06
DaemonFCif the police want in your house, you ask if they have a warrent before you open the door and just let them inJun 02 05:06
DaemonFCotherwise you could be arrested under the plain sight ruleJun 02 05:06
fewayes, the FCC needs to require all DRMed stuff to be labled with what exactally the DRM limitsJun 02 05:06
fewatheyve been talking about this with games and i hope it catches onJun 02 05:06
fewas/FCC/FT/Jun 02 05:06
fewa*FTCJun 02 05:07
DaemonFCthat would be the FTC's jurisdictionJun 02 05:07
DaemonFCyesJun 02 05:07
DaemonFCconsumer protectionJun 02 05:07
oiaohmIf companies want to use DRM they are fine to.Jun 02 05:07
oiaohmBut they have not right to supprise consumers with it.Jun 02 05:07
fewaunless it breaks anti-competition lawsJun 02 05:07
oiaohmHow is telling everyone that something has DRM protection breaking anti-competition laws.Jun 02 05:08
fewait isntJun 02 05:08
oiaohmNot telling is more breaking the law.Jun 02 05:08
fewabut microsoft getting all windows machine to use TC to lock out linux would beJun 02 05:08
***MERGED
fewabut microsoft getto use TC to lock out linux would beJun 02 04:49
oiaohmSo producing buggy ACPI test tools so lot of bios makers made defective functioning bios's don't count as locking Linux out?Jun 02 04:50
oiaohmThere is more than 1 way to lock a OS out fewaJun 02 04:51
fewayes yesJun 02 04:51
fewai just wanted to say that even with full disclosure things can be prohibitedJun 02 04:51
oiaohmRegulators have been asleep at the wheel.Jun 02 04:51
fewaand/or anti-competitiveJun 02 04:51
oiaohmAnd fined for being anti-competitive.Jun 02 04:52
oiaohmMost companies can expect at moment is slap on wrist in most countries and told don't do that again.Jun 02 04:52
oiaohmEU is about the only regulator awake.Jun 02 04:52
fewa"It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work" --billyJun 02 04:53
oiaohmLinux does a lot of work that it works.Jun 02 04:53
oiaohmLinux running a central repo open source for drivers helps a huge ammount on the work required between versions.Jun 02 04:56
oiaohmAuto scripts can be run to rewrite sections of old code.Jun 02 04:56
oiaohmClosed source model for drivers has its probems.Jun 02 04:57
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DaemonFCit's funny that porn and gamers had the deciding vote for Blu RayJun 02 04:57
DaemonFCevery time there's a format war, just go with whatever format the porn is onJun 02 04:58
oiaohmI forgot the other problem with OOXML DaemonFC.  They forget to include a tag to say what version OOXML the file is and tags to store version compadiblity options.Jun 02 04:58
oiaohmNot something you do in a future safe format DaemonFCJun 02 04:59
DaemonFCit's too bad there's no porn in office formats, this ODF vs OOXML thing would be over with alreadyJun 02 04:59
DaemonFCIdon't think most people really care what format winsJun 02 05:00
DaemonFCbut having two competing incompatible formats is what bitesJun 02 05:00
oiaohmMost people care if there documents will open in future without major problems.Jun 02 05:01
oiaohmIt would have been nice if both formats were techincally on the right path.Jun 02 05:01
DaemonFCpeople don't think like thatJun 02 05:01
DaemonFCthat's why stuff like this happensJun 02 05:01
DaemonFCgovernments can be bribed, companies use MS Office anyway, and people use whichever format the governments and their employer or university usesJun 02 05:03
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oiaohmMS has huge userbase just like IE.   Problem here just like IE if don't fix stuff up right you end up secound rate every quicky.Jun 02 05:03
DaemonFCwhich is why there's no entry point for ODFJun 02 05:03
oiaohmInvalid logic DaemonFCJun 02 05:03
fewaOOXML isnt even documented, its all based on undocumented legacy stuffJun 02 05:03
oiaohmSame was said about IE.Jun 02 05:03
DaemonFCdoesn't matterJun 02 05:03
DaemonFCyou get 99% of the users using it and you are effectively your own standardJun 02 05:04
oiaohmMS will have to support ODF completely to stay in some countries.Jun 02 05:04
oiaohmNot might it is will.Jun 02 05:04
DaemonFCthe only reason IE has budged at all towards W3C standards is because it no longer has 96% of the market to itselfJun 02 05:04
oiaohmOOXML is exculded.Jun 02 05:04
oiaohmUSA where your are MS center of Universe so you cannot see it.Jun 02 05:05
oiaohmLong term ODF will win because it will be the item that works everywhere.Jun 02 05:05
DaemonFCwell, hopefully enough other governments tug to the point where MS supports ODF just to satisfy the requirementJun 02 05:05
DaemonFCthen it won't matter how many people use officeJun 02 05:05
DaemonFCand save to Office formatsJun 02 05:06
***MERGED END
oiaohmSo producing buggy ACPI test tools so lot of bios makers made defective functioning bios's don't count as locking Linux out?Jun 02 05:09
oiaohmThere is more than 1 way to lock a OS out fewaJun 02 05:10
fewayes yesJun 02 05:10
fewai just wanted to say that even with full disclosure things can be prohibitedJun 02 05:10
oiaohmRegulators have been asleep at the wheel.Jun 02 05:10
fewaand/or anti-competitiveJun 02 05:10
oiaohmAnd fined for being anti-competitive.Jun 02 05:11
oiaohmMost companies can expect at moment is slap on wrist in most countries and told don't do that again.Jun 02 05:11
oiaohmEU is about the only regulator awake.Jun 02 05:11
fewa"It seems unfortunate if we do this work and get our partners to do the work and the result is that Linux works great without having to do the work" --billyJun 02 05:12
oiaohmLinux does a lot of work that it works.Jun 02 05:12
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oiaohmMS has huge userbase just like IE.   Problem here just like IE if don't fix stuff up right you end up secound rate every quicky.Jun 02 05:23
DaemonFCwhich is why there's no entry point for ODFJun 02 05:23
oiaohmInvalid logic DaemonFCJun 02 05:23
fewaOOXML isnt even documented, its all based on undocumented legacy stuffJun 02 05:23
oiaohmSame was said about IE.Jun 02 05:23
DaemonFCdoesn't matterJun 02 05:23
DaemonFCyou get 99% of the users using it and you are effectively your own standardJun 02 05:23
oiaohmMS will have to support ODF completely to stay in some countries.Jun 02 05:23
oiaohmNot might it is will.Jun 02 05:23
DaemonFCthe only reason IE has budged at all towards W3C standards is because it no longer has 96% of the market to itselfJun 02 05:23
oiaohmOOXML is exculded.Jun 02 05:24
oiaohmUSA where your are MS center of Universe so you cannot see it.Jun 02 05:24
oiaohmLong term ODF will win because it will be the item that works everywhere.Jun 02 05:24
DaemonFCwell, hopefully enough other governments tug to the point where MS supports ODF just to satisfy the requirementJun 02 05:24
DaemonFCthen it won't matter how many people use officeJun 02 05:25
DaemonFCand save to Office formatsJun 02 05:25
DaemonFCthat seems to be the only way to change Microsoft, enough competition tugging the other wayJun 02 05:25
oiaohmThere half assed attempt at ODF recently if they did not do it would have been deleted from 12 countries.Jun 02 05:25
DaemonFCI don't think one single entity will ever do itJun 02 05:25
DaemonFCtheir ODF add on is 4 megabytesJun 02 05:26
DaemonFCSun's is 80 megabytesJun 02 05:26
oiaohmSun is lazy.Jun 02 05:26
DaemonFCSun's broke because Sun didn't bother fixing it while SP2 was betaJun 02 05:26
oiaohmSun also want to sell there own office suiteJun 02 05:27
DaemonFCif there's anyone doing damage to Sun's credibility, it's mostly SunJun 02 05:27
oiaohmSo why should they make it small.Jun 02 05:27
*DaemonFC never said he liked SunJun 02 05:27
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DaemonFCSun issues whitepapers smearing OpenOffice to try to sell StarOfficeJun 02 05:27
oiaohmIts normal company dirty pool.Jun 02 05:27
oiaohmReally sooner ODF is a complete standard the better.Jun 02 05:28
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelpJun 02 05:29
oiaohmThen everyone can just forget OOXML just existed and MS will be pulled into line by a pack of goverments around the world.Jun 02 05:29
DaemonFCIf MS Office supported ODF as its primary format, people would still buy itJun 02 05:30
oiaohmhtml5 support in google docs is also going to be interesting.   To open ODF you will not need to install anything.Jun 02 05:30
oiaohmI really don't care if MS Office is sold or not DaemonFCJun 02 05:30
oiaohmI am not anti a company selling product.Jun 02 05:31
oiaohmI am anti bad formats for people storing there information in.Jun 02 05:31
DaemonFCeventually MS Office will go ODFJun 02 05:31
DaemonFCjust because they've been outcheapedJun 02 05:32
oiaohmEU goverment asked for a ISO format document.Jun 02 05:32
oiaohmMS said stuff them.Jun 02 05:32
oiaohmSUN took the chance so MS lost.Jun 02 05:32
oiaohmWe just have a lot of MS kicking and screaming to go.Jun 02 05:33
oiaohmBasically MS got too up themselves for there own good.Jun 02 05:33
oiaohmLot of EU countries will not consider OOXML because it was released after the dead line for submissions for unified format was in.Jun 02 05:34
oiaohmNot out cheaped victom of there own stupidity DaemonFCJun 02 05:36
oiaohmHeck they were even give a 6 month extention to dead line to have format in and even failed to do that.Jun 02 05:37
DaemonFCI've been trying out BingJun 02 05:43
DaemonFCsome of it's better than Google and some it just laughably badJun 02 05:43
DaemonFCit's definitely better than Live searchJun 02 05:46
DaemonFCbut that was basic and shitty anywayJun 02 05:47
DaemonFCso that was inevitableJun 02 05:47
DaemonFCMicrosoft has some IE 8 accelerators that use Bing alreadyJun 02 05:47
DaemonFCdoesn't look like they're censoring their search resultsJun 02 05:51
DaemonFChttp://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9933/85415568.pngJun 02 05:51
DaemonFChttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/06/01/urnidgns002570F3005978D8002575C8004696EC.DTLJun 02 05:54
DaemonFCMicrosoft Bing Goes Live: So What?Jun 02 05:54
DaemonFCagreedJun 02 05:54
DaemonFCadvertising seems better than on GoogleJun 02 05:56
DaemonFCGoogle routinely lets scammers and spyware makers advertise in search resultsJun 02 05:56
DaemonFCwonder if Bing will eventually do thatJun 02 05:57
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oiaohmMost likely yes.Jun 02 05:58
oiaohmCurrently scammers and spyware guys have no reason to target bing DaemonFCJun 02 05:59
oiaohmNot enough market.Jun 02 05:59
DaemonFCwell, Google won't do anything about itJun 02 05:59
oiaohmThey do.  But there is a limit how much they can filter.Jun 02 06:00
DaemonFCyou give Google money you can advertise all kinds of illegal thingsJun 02 06:00
oiaohmIts volume DaemonFCJun 02 06:00
oiaohmSmall percentage of error adds up over time.Jun 02 06:01
oiaohmSo something new like bing you expect bugger all of it.Jun 02 06:01
oiaohmAs it gets older you expect to see more and more and more.Jun 02 06:01
oiaohmdmoz.org also when new were purely clean of crap.Jun 02 06:02
oiaohmIts the same old thing as something grows it gets crap.   Larger something is harder it gets to remove it.Jun 02 06:03
oiaohmUntil it gets to the point that as fast as you clean its getting dirty again.   Its like some bridges they never stop painting it.Jun 02 06:04
fewahttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/eu-may-flex-regulatory-muscles-against-google-book-deal.arsJun 02 06:04
oiaohmHmm that could get nasty fewaJun 02 06:06
oiaohmGoogle is on the wrong side of the law there.Jun 02 06:06
fewathey are beaking the berne treatyJun 02 06:06
oiaohmThis may a long last sort out if its the server host country or the desitnation.Jun 02 06:07
oiaohmOr both.Jun 02 06:07
oiaohmOn what laws apply on the internet.Jun 02 06:07
oiaohmBoth would get ugly.Jun 02 06:08
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DaemonFC"Disc rentals cost only $1.00 + tax until 9:00 PM the next evening, then $1.00 + tax for each additional night. After 25 days, your card will be charged an additional $24.00 + tax and the disc is yours to keep."Jun 02 06:22
DaemonFChehJun 02 06:22
DaemonFCso it could end up costing $50 plus taxJun 02 06:22
DaemonFCif you break or lose the discJun 02 06:22
DaemonFCwhich would be $53.50Jun 02 06:23
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DaemonFCI think it's more like betting on someone to forget about having to take it backJun 02 06:24
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DaemonFC"In February 2005, Macrovision introduced their new RipGuard technology. This is designed to prevent (or reduce) digital DVD copying by altering the format of the DVD content in such a way as to disrupt the ripping software. Although the technology can be circumvented by several current DVD rippers such as AnyDVD or DVDFab, Macrovision claims that 95% of casual users lack the knowledge and/or determJun 02 06:32
DaemonFCination to be able to copy a DVD with RipGuard technologyJun 02 06:32
DaemonFClmaoJun 02 06:32
DaemonFClike it's hard to pop the disc in and push a button in DVD DecrypterJun 02 06:33
DaemonFCwhy do studios pay money for Mackeralvision?Jun 02 06:33
DaemonFC:PJun 02 06:33
DaemonFCMackeralVision basically consist of simulating bad sectors on a discJun 02 06:34
DaemonFCcircumvention is usually possible with error correction features found in standard disc burning softwareJun 02 06:34
DaemonFCfunny how you don't see them harassing NeroJun 02 06:35
fewasomeone needs to insert more _ecterprises_ in to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enterprise_softwareJun 02 06:43
fewasome sentences already have it 4 timesJun 02 06:43
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DaemonFCOK this DVD is being wickedJun 02 07:05
DaemonFCVLC can decrypt the root menu chunkJun 02 07:05
DaemonFCbut freezes on the first video trackJun 02 07:06
schestowitzJust got some nice articleJun 02 07:48
schestowitzI reposted with attribution:Jun 02 07:49
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/mono-an-infectious-disease/Jun 02 07:49
schestowitzI could add some more evidence from Microsoft. Things like this:Jun 02 07:49
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/18/dot-net-mono-in-devices/Jun 02 07:49
schestowitzA good summary of why Mono is evilJun 02 07:49
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schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCroKsfUog&feature=relatedJun 02 07:59
DaemonFCwatching ValkyrieJun 02 07:59
DaemonFCit was a good planJun 02 07:59
schestowitzMeh.Jun 02 08:00
DaemonFCthe thing that saved Hitler's life was actually the design of the meeting room tableJun 02 08:00
schestowitzAny comments on that Mono article? Post em there...Jun 02 08:00
DaemonFCit was designed to come apart so they could get it into that bunckerJun 02 08:00
DaemonFC*bunkerJun 02 08:00
DaemonFCthey failed to account for that and for where Hitler ended up standingJun 02 08:00
schestowitzSaved his left?Jun 02 08:01
schestowitzHe and Eva committed suicideJun 02 08:01
DaemonFCHitler ended up with a piece of the table in his leg and both eardrums blown outJun 02 08:01
schestowitzIIRC, Goebbels and his wife too... killing their kids tooJun 02 08:01
DaemonFCyeah, but this was the assassination attemptJun 02 08:01
DaemonFCHitler lived for nearly 2 years past thatJun 02 08:01
DaemonFCand ended up killing himselfJun 02 08:02
schestowitzHow do you feel about Hollywood making money from Hitler stories?Jun 02 08:02
schestowitzThere are more such films, obviouslyJun 02 08:02
schestowitzHitler Xbox 360 live < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D15HCJxpAM >Jun 02 08:03
DaemonFClmaoJun 02 08:03
DaemonFCis that like the Hitler Windows Vista one?Jun 02 08:03
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 08:03
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExeyrNZwzwQJun 02 08:03
schestowitzWe're still under DDOS, so the filters (firewall) are too aggressive.Jun 02 08:04
DaemonFCXBOX 360 is too expensive and has too many hidden costs and gimmicksJun 02 08:05
DaemonFCthat's before the reliability problemsJun 02 08:05
schestowitzTheater Ordered To Pay $10,000 For Searching Customers < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090530/2245495067.shtml >Jun 02 08:08
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DaemonFCwhy do they even care if people take cameras in?Jun 02 08:18
DaemonFCthose aren't even worth downloadingJun 02 08:18
schestowitzChip sales down 25% from last year http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/01/sia_april_2009_chip_sales_report/Jun 02 08:20
schestowitzIrish politicos try to cut off call girls' mobiles http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/01/mobile_ladies/Jun 02 08:20
schestowitzHere comes the nation of 'rich people's (faster) Internet': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8077839.stmJun 02 08:25
schestowitz /s//nation/notion/Jun 02 08:25
DaemonFCusing the army reserve to arrest the SSJun 02 08:41
schestowitzEuropean Commission considers imposing new special conditions on Microsoft < http://www.h-online.com/open/European-Commission-considers-imposing-new-special-conditions-on-Microsoft--/news/113424 >. The commission should start by embracing FOSS.Jun 02 08:41
schestowitzEuropean Commission again...Jun 02 08:41
DaemonFCwas pure geniusJun 02 08:41
schestowitzWhere did you get the film..?Jun 02 08:42
DaemonFCredboxJun 02 08:43
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schestowitzIndia learns from China and starts censoring news sites: Govt gearing up to gag news websites <http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Govt-gearing-up-to-gag-news-websites/articleshow/4562292.cms >Jun 02 08:51
schestowitzMarijuana and Cocaine Should Be Legalized, Says Latin American Drugs Commission < http://www.alternet.org/story/140331/ >. Jun 02 08:52
schestowitzLesser known factors in global warming: http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/2781/permafrost-melt-poses-long-term-climate-threat "Melting permafrost could eventually disgorge a billion tonnes a year of greenhouse gas into the atmosphere, accelerating the threat from climate change, a new study has found."Jun 02 08:52
oiaohmIt is going strangish.Jun 02 08:53
oiaohmThe north is melting and the south is freesing.Jun 02 08:53
schestowitzThe potential corruption of cancer research (29% has money on the table): http://www.alternet.org/story/140191/ Medical Research Bought Off by Big PharmaJun 02 08:54
schestowitzoiaohm: the question is differentJun 02 08:54
fewatime to go sslJun 02 08:54
schestowitzWhat is our role? (burning all the fossils)Jun 02 08:54
schestowitzfewa: for BN?Jun 02 08:55
schestowitzhttps?Jun 02 08:55
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fewaindia articleJun 02 08:55
schestowitzOhJun 02 08:55
oiaohmThe earth has built in purge systems.Jun 02 08:55
oiaohmThere is every chance we have set one off.Jun 02 08:55
schestowitzThe admin just set it to require 30 hits in 30 seconds instead of 15. Loads of people have been blocked for the past two weeks (especially recent days)... Connectivity issues due to an aggressive firewall (there are still zombies knocking on the site every now and then and it's better to serve poorly than not to serve at all).Jun 02 08:55
schestowitzI wonder if we block search engines by mistakeJun 02 08:56
oiaohmMost likely.Jun 02 08:56
schestowitzThey tend to take up over 30gb/month and I see some pages going off the index in BNJun 02 08:56
fewarate limit individual IPs?Jun 02 08:56
fewaor is it a bot netJun 02 08:56
schestowitztessier: is there a way to ensure search engines are not turned away?Jun 02 08:56
schestowitzfewa: botnetJun 02 08:57
fewareverse dnsJun 02 08:57
fewagoogle ips for example always reverse resolveJun 02 08:57
schestowitzI guess one couldJun 02 08:57
oiaohmGoogle never hides its bots.Jun 02 08:57
fewathat tooJun 02 08:57
fewabut depends where the blocking is taking placeJun 02 08:58
fewaif its before the HTTP level then user-agent is uselessJun 02 08:58
oiaohmIts before fewa.Jun 02 08:58
fewamy pointJun 02 08:58
fewawonder what type of bot netJun 02 08:58
fewamicrosoft has the biggest bot net of them all :PJun 02 08:58
oiaohmFrom my notes http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2006/09/how-to-verify-googlebot.html  If google has not changed all google bots will be coming from googlebot.comJun 02 09:01
schestowitzfewa: Win UpdateJun 02 09:02
fewa"critical updates"Jun 02 09:03
oiaohmhttp://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=80553  Yep still current.Jun 02 09:04
oiaohmUnless someone goes out of there way to spoof google bots the reverse lookup will work.Jun 02 09:05
DaemonFCyou really have to be pretty stupid/careless to have your system get zombiedJun 02 09:05
DaemonFCThere's patch tuesday then exploit wednesdayJun 02 09:06
DaemonFCbetter keep auto updates onJun 02 09:06
DaemonFCvirus writers usually look at what recent patches fixed and set web pages up to exploit several at onceJun 02 09:06
DaemonFCthere's also the fact that malware writers can sit on exploits til the day after Microsoft releases a bunch of patchesJun 02 09:07
DaemonFCthen they have at least a month til there's a patch for thatJun 02 09:07
fewaor you can just use firefoxJun 02 09:07
DaemonFCFirefox isn't really that much saferJun 02 09:08
fewao wait, microsoft update installed a .NET security hole into firefox that users installed out of their own free willJun 02 09:08
DaemonFCit still runs with the permissions of the logged in userJun 02 09:08
DaemonFCwhich is not idealJun 02 09:08
oiaohmFirefox on Linux sitting inside selinux sandbox.   Anyone who gets in is not going far.Jun 02 09:08
DaemonFCFirefox on Windows could use the same Protected Mode API that IE doesJun 02 09:09
DaemonFCif Mozilla was concerned about securityJun 02 09:09
oiaohmCan you explain to me why inside that you can still rundll32 and start a service DaemonFCJun 02 09:09
DaemonFCthe modifications required to make it do that are negligibleJun 02 09:09
fewaProtected mode is BSJun 02 09:09
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fewachrome wont touch itJun 02 09:10
oiaohmchrome built there own for really good reasons DaemonFCJun 02 09:10
oiaohmThey tried the one IE uses they broke 12 times in the first hour.Jun 02 09:10
DaemonFCmy point is that it's so easy to useJun 02 09:10
DaemonFCand Mozilla won't use itJun 02 09:11
oiaohmAnd secuirty pointless.Jun 02 09:11
fewaDaemonFC, who cares if it doesnt add securityJun 02 09:11
DaemonFCit's better than running as the logged in userJun 02 09:11
DaemonFCVista recognized low integrity, medium itegrity, and high integrity process tokensJun 02 09:11
fewafirefox isnt a security holeJun 02 09:11
fewaits pluginsJun 02 09:11
DaemonFCa standard user is mediumJun 02 09:11
DaemonFCIE runs as lowJun 02 09:12
fewaand ie even rules native friggen codeJun 02 09:12
DaemonFCrunning something as administrator is highJun 02 09:12
fewastraight off the internetJun 02 09:12
DaemonFCso Mozilla can mess with the users filesJun 02 09:12
DaemonFCbut IE can'tJun 02 09:12
DaemonFCunless the broker process or the user allow itJun 02 09:12
DaemonFCa lot of that happens in the backgroundJun 02 09:13
DaemonFClike when you download a fileJun 02 09:13
DaemonFCyour argument is essentially "Why make it harder for malicious software to install itself when that's not 100% effective in all cases?"Jun 02 09:14
fewano it isntJun 02 09:14
fewathe idea that running native code in IE straight from the net, in a broken security mode can possibly be secure is rubbishJun 02 09:14
DaemonFCWhy do you lock your door?Jun 02 09:14
DaemonFCsomeone can just bash it inJun 02 09:14
DaemonFCwhy lock it?Jun 02 09:14
DaemonFC:PJun 02 09:14
oiaohmIE down a service into tempJun 02 09:16
oiaohmRun it with rundll32 and you have the system.Jun 02 09:16
oiaohmWindows is not even smart enough to referse to load a service from temp.Jun 02 09:16
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RedboxJun 02 09:17
DaemonFCthere's what I was talking about earlierJun 02 09:17
DaemonFC"Kiosks hold more than 600 DVDs with 70-200 titles"Jun 02 09:18
DaemonFCso it basically does replace a video rental storeJun 02 09:18
oiaohmSandboxing only makes sence if the OS secuirty is sane DaemonFC.Jun 02 09:20
oiaohmIts like running as root in a chroot on Linux.Jun 02 09:20
oiaohmIts next to pointless using the chroot because you can walk straight out of it as soon as you detect it.Jun 02 09:21
oiaohmThose Kiosks have been tried here.Jun 02 09:23
oiaohmTurn out did not work that well.  Main reason people who don't want case would order movie from bigpond here online line on a self destructing disk.Jun 02 09:24
oiaohmYep you don't even need to bother returning the disk.Jun 02 09:24
oiaohmMight be different now that the EPA caught up with bigpond.Jun 02 09:28
oiaohmSo now you can have 5 movies from bigpond as long as you like lot like a old style public library to get new ones you have to return old.Jun 02 09:29
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schestowitz"Engineers from SanDisk and Canonical Ltd., creator of the Ubuntu Linux-based operating system, have worked together on system optimizations for the Gen2 pSSD, resulting in improved system responsiveness and longer battery life, SanDisk said in a statement." http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9133778&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_topJun 02 09:41
DaemonFCsandboxing is not there to be bulletproofJun 02 09:42
DaemonFCit's there to reduce the ease of exploiting a vulnerabilityJun 02 09:42
DaemonFCSun has used ActiveX to do some grandstanding even though they hammered on the enter key to make the security prompts go awayJun 02 09:43
DaemonFCfor their alleged demonstrationJun 02 09:43
DaemonFCJAVA can be just as dangerousJun 02 09:43
*SirSane (n=sean@173-29-123-36.client.mchsi.com) has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 09:46
*SirSane is now known as TommyBoyJun 02 09:47
*TommyBoy is now known as TaftJun 02 09:47
fewa Choose variable names that masquerade as mathematical operators, e.g.:Jun 02 09:47
fewa      openParen = (slash + asterix) / equals;Jun 02 09:47
fewa Choose variable names with irrelevant emotional connotation. e.g.:Jun 02 09:47
fewa      marypoppins = (superman + starship) / god;Jun 02 09:47
*Taft is now known as FattyFatFatJun 02 09:47
FattyFatFatHai guys.Jun 02 09:48
oiaohmSo you are reading how to make code not readable  fewaJun 02 09:48
FattyFatFatWho, me?Jun 02 09:48
oiaohmNo it was to fawa comments before you joined FattyFatFatJun 02 09:49
FattyFatFatOh, okay.Jun 02 09:49
oiaohmDaemonFC: sandboxing that works should be bulletproof.Jun 02 09:49
FattyFatFatI've been doing some studying lately, can anyone recommend a distribution to me that doesn't include Mono by default?Jun 02 09:50
FattyFatFatI'm not sure if gNewSense does, and I don't much care for BLAG.Jun 02 09:50
FattyFatFatBut I would like to be able to enjoy my system without fear of those Micro$oft shills holding a patent on my system. =PJun 02 09:51
fewaI dont even think ubuntu ships mono in the default installJun 02 09:52
fewabut i could be wrongJun 02 09:52
FattyFatFatWell, I'm not sure fewa.Jun 02 09:52
FattyFatFatThey certainly have it enabled in the repos at least.Jun 02 09:52
FattyFatFatJust downloading a package that requires it is bad in my book.Jun 02 09:53
DaemonFCyesJun 02 09:53
DaemonFCmono is in the default installJun 02 09:53
FattyFatFatI'm fairly sure I can deal with a non-Linux kernel, such as FreeBSD or OpenSolaris, or even Debian GNU/kFreeBSDJun 02 09:53
FattyFatFatBut I'm not even sure if they have Mono.Jun 02 09:54
FattyFatFatOr for that matter, are feature-complete.Jun 02 09:54
fewadebian doesnt have it by defaultJun 02 09:54
FattyFatFatHmmm.Jun 02 09:54
FattyFatFatA possibility, then.Jun 02 09:54
FattyFatFatAPT isn't my favorite packaging system, but I can deal with it.Jun 02 09:54
fewayou like yum?Jun 02 09:55
FattyFatFatHmm, I've never really tried yum much.Jun 02 09:55
fewathen what do you use?Jun 02 09:55
FattyFatFatGentoo for the time being.Jun 02 09:55
fewaahhJun 02 09:55
FattyFatFatI'm tired of dealing with ebuilds so much.Jun 02 09:55
fewaI thought gentoo gave more control than anything elseJun 02 09:56
fewaahhJun 02 09:56
FattyFatFatTalk about frustrating.Jun 02 09:56
fewaso what binary package management do you like?Jun 02 09:56
fewaor do you generally dislike binary management? yet are frustrated/tired with it?Jun 02 09:56
FattyFatFatWhat's it take to get a good distro that is free software, non-mono, and GNU/Linux-like?Jun 02 09:56
oiaohmDebian still allows installing as command line only.Jun 02 09:56
fewaand has the best scripted system for installingJun 02 09:57
oiaohmDebian basically give you full control of what you want.Jun 02 09:57
FattyFatFatI have a somewhat older machine, Ubuntu's APT has always been slovenly on it.Jun 02 09:57
FattyFatFatIf Debian is comparable to it, that's a no-go for me.Jun 02 09:57
fewawhich interface to apt?Jun 02 09:57
FattyFatFatjust apt-get itselfJun 02 09:57
FattyFatFator aptitudeJun 02 09:57
fewaslovenly?Jun 02 09:57
FattyFatFatIt's dog slow on this computer.Jun 02 09:57
oiaohmapt-get and aptitude were designed by developers at debain.Jun 02 09:58
FattyFatFatI originally thought it was the connection.Jun 02 09:58
oiaohmUbuntu basically copied them.Jun 02 09:58
fewaapt works much better on debian because there is less reposJun 02 09:58
FattyFatFatBut everything else works fine.Jun 02 09:58
fewaubuntu has way to many repositoriesJun 02 09:58
FattyFatFatI suppose.Jun 02 09:58
fewaso the apt-get update works much fasterJun 02 09:58
oiaohmapt can get slow on my I have about 8 third party repos.Jun 02 09:59
FattyFatFatWell, that's nice to know, but what else is out there that doesn't ship with mono and has a libre system?Jun 02 09:59
oiaohmWithout the thrid parties debian is fast.Jun 02 09:59
fewayou only have to update your apt cache when you want toJun 02 09:59
FattyFatFatIs there a good, lightweight system that ships with linux-libre?Jun 02 09:59
fewaon rpm-based you are forced toJun 02 09:59
FattyFatFatOr will I have to put one together myself as a weekend project?Jun 02 09:59
fewai havnt really used rpm-based/yum but i felt that debian apt was betterJun 02 09:59
schestowitzIU hailed as IT pioneer in CIO 100 Awards < http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/11043.html >Jun 02 09:59
FattyFatFatWell, I'm primarily also looking for something along the ideologies of BLAG.Jun 02 10:00
FattyFatFator gnewsenseJun 02 10:00
benJImanzypp is technically superior to apt in many ways. However, most of the success people attribute to apt is in fact down to Debian's strict packaging rules. Good packages are more important than a great tool.Jun 02 10:01
FattyFatFatI don't want non-free software on my machine, I've had it for years and I'm willing to make the change over.Jun 02 10:01
fewadebian is the best for non-free softwareJun 02 10:01
FattyFatFatWell I don't want non-free.Jun 02 10:01
fewathe only reason the FSF doesnt like it is because it has a special repo for non-freeJun 02 10:01
FattyFatFatI would like free only.Jun 02 10:01
fewawhoops freudian slipJun 02 10:01
FattyFatFatGoodness.Jun 02 10:01
fewadebian is best on being free onlyJun 02 10:01
FattyFatFatOh.Jun 02 10:01
FattyFatFatDoes it ship with a libre kernel?Jun 02 10:01
fewafedora is probably also pretty goodJun 02 10:01
fewathere is one you can installJun 02 10:02
FattyFatFatHmm, Debian seems quite favorable then.Jun 02 10:02
fewadebian is very strict about contrib too, which ubuntu doesnt really upholdJun 02 10:03
FattyFatFatWill I have to run it from the mini-iso to accomodate for my slow processor?Jun 02 10:03
fewathat if something is not usefull without non-free software it has to be in contribJun 02 10:03
FattyFatFatI have a 1.2 GHz Intel P3 motherboard.Jun 02 10:03
fewawowJun 02 10:03
FattyFatFatIt's not a very fast beast, as you can imagine.Jun 02 10:03
fewayou should get something fasterJun 02 10:03
fewai recommend lxde or xfce thenJun 02 10:03
fewagot GUIJun 02 10:03
FattyFatFatI would, but I recently got laid offJun 02 10:03
fewa*for GUIJun 02 10:03
FattyFatFatWith kids to support, hardware is the least of my worries.Jun 02 10:04
schestowitzFattyFatFat is a trollJun 02 10:05
schestowitzIt's the admin from the site which attacks BNJun 02 10:05
FattyFatFatI'm sorry?Jun 02 10:05
schestowitz* SirSane (n=sean@173-29-123-36.client.mchsi.com) has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 10:05
schestowitz* SirSane is now known as TommyBoyJun 02 10:05
schestowitz* TommyBoy is now known as TaftJun 02 10:05
fewaschestowitz is probably rightJun 02 10:05
schestowitz* Taft is now known as FattyFatFatJun 02 10:05
FattyFatFatI have no idea what you're talking about.Jun 02 10:05
schestowitzTell your cronies to start DDoSing usJun 02 10:06
FattyFatFatWhat?Jun 02 10:06
schestowitzOr legal action will be takenJun 02 10:06
FattyFatFatI don't understand.Jun 02 10:06
FattyFatFatI'm merely looking for advice on a safe distribution of GNU/Linux.Jun 02 10:06
schestowitzYou said it was one of your folks who claims to be behind the attacksJun 02 10:06
FattyFatFatWho are you?Jun 02 10:06
schestowitzAnd now that you're blocked you modbomb usJun 02 10:06
schestowitztake your trolling elsewhereJun 02 10:06
FattyFatFatI'm not trolling.Jun 02 10:07
schestowitzDon't pretend you're an errant personJun 02 10:07
fewaFattyFatFat, yes you areJun 02 10:07
schestowitz*errandJun 02 10:07
FattyFatFatPlease, sir, stop with the personal attacks against me!Jun 02 10:07
FattyFatFatIs this how all guests are treated here?Jun 02 10:07
schestowitzYou're not a guestJun 02 10:07
schestowitzYou're the linsux adminJun 02 10:07
FattyFatFatWhat's linsux?Jun 02 10:07
schestowitzThe one behind attacks on usJun 02 10:07
fewaFattyFatFat, GTFOJun 02 10:07
schestowitzYour siteJun 02 10:08
FattyFatFatSomeone's attacking you?Jun 02 10:08
fewa* [FattyFatFat] #boycottnovell ##linsuxchatJun 02 10:08
FattyFatFatWho would do such a terrible thing?Jun 02 10:08
schestowitzPiss off, will ya?Jun 02 10:08
FattyFatFatI thought this place was a public forum for all to gather for the sake of Free Software.Jun 02 10:08
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3833182008.html  Interisting arm9 from Via.Jun 02 10:08
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*n=sean@173-29-123-36.client.mchsi.comJun 02 10:08
*schestowitz has kicked FattyFatFat from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jun 02 10:08
schestowitzThey are behind a multitude of attacks on usJun 02 10:09
schestowitzAnd libel against me personallyJun 02 10:09
fewai should be less friendlyJun 02 10:09
fewato people that make no senseJun 02 10:10
oiaohmfewa: tolerence is an art form.Jun 02 10:10
oiaohmThose guys at linsux has out lived there tollerence.Jun 02 10:10
schestowitzThey commit crimes tooJun 02 10:11
schestowitzNot just libel, apparently the DDoS tooJun 02 10:11
oiaohmYou never ever support a DDOS attack even on a site you hate the most.   Linsux was prasing it as if it was the greatest thing.Jun 02 10:11
schestowitz"SirCane" was here two weeks agoJun 02 10:11
schestowitzHe said someone from his site claimed to be behind the attacksJun 02 10:11
oiaohmI hope one day there server gets DDossed by someone sick of them and mentally insane so they learn DDOS attacks are nothing to joke about.Jun 02 10:12
oiaohmThere has also be a sync between them turn up here and boycottnovell attacked too fewa.Jun 02 10:13
oiaohmSo schestowitz having no tollerence kinda understandable.Jun 02 10:14
oiaohmWe mostly follow the rules of tollerence fewaJun 02 10:14
fewahttp://pastebin.com/m4d6c0d90Jun 02 10:14
oiaohmI think this the first time I seen schestowitz ban anyone.Jun 02 10:15
fewadoesnt realie changing your name and then pretending to be something you are not is trollingJun 02 10:15
schestowitz<SirSane> Well.Jun 02 10:15
schestowitz<SirSane> That went badly.Jun 02 10:15
schestowitz<SirSane> fewa: Don't you find it the least bit discriminatory to just up and kick me? I was being polite and everything!Jun 02 10:15
schestowitz<SirSane> I didn't troll at all!Jun 02 10:15
schestowitzWhat assh*olesJun 02 10:15
schestowitzDid you see what they do in FSDaily now?Jun 02 10:15
schestowitzhttp://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Who_are_linsux_org_and_what_do_they_wantJun 02 10:16
oiaohmassh*oles is too nice.Jun 02 10:16
schestowitzWell, criminalsJun 02 10:16
oiaohmThey are pure scum.Jun 02 10:16
schestowitzI don't have to show you other stuff they did on the yearsJun 02 10:16
oiaohmWho ever is behind them whats to stop Linux.Jun 02 10:17
oiaohmThey claim to be BSD linked but I have never meet BSD people that nasty.Jun 02 10:17
schestowitzhttp://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Microsoft_Starts_Attacking_the_ODF_Alliance_Sends_Paid_Wikipedia_Editors_to_ODF_ArticleJun 02 10:17
schestowitz"Mr. Psychopath, boycotter of a boycotter, I see you are trying to stop boycottnovell.com from appearing on the front (published) news and accusing Roy Schestowitz of yellow journalism. But that article is anything but yellow journalism, in fact, many times Roy offers us believable proofs. And MS is dangerous to free software, so I believe that his articles are invaluable for exposing MS and its intentions."Jun 02 10:17
oiaohmOk don't have a dispute about licence freedom with them over GPL and BSD other than that friendly.Jun 02 10:17
fewahttp://lwn.net/Articles/335442/Jun 02 10:18
fewaSCOTUS is going to take up bilskiJun 02 10:18
oiaohmBSD distributions has used Gcc and other parts for years.Jun 02 10:18
oiaohmAnd will keep on providing them as an option.Jun 02 10:19
oiaohmThey just prefer using BSD parts.Jun 02 10:19
fewaive meet some nice BSD peopleJun 02 10:19
oiaohmlinsux are not even right for extream BSD people.Jun 02 10:19
schestowitzAppeal was expectedJun 02 10:25
schestowitzhttp://www.scotusblog.com/wp/court-to-rule-on-patent-dispute/Jun 02 10:25
fewabut for the court to take it?Jun 02 10:25
oiaohmfsdaily.com When  they write an artical on you asking who you are they are not happy.Jun 02 10:25
oiaohmApparent linsux guys are kinda dumb.Jun 02 10:25
fewano shitJun 02 10:25
fewahe didnt even open a new irc sessionJun 02 10:26
fewamakes me wonder what they hell they are trying to do and whyJun 02 10:26
schestowitzGoogle Desktop Gets Google Reader Gadget < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Google_Desktop_Gets_Google_Reader_Gadget/551-102633-580.html >Jun 02 10:27
schestowitzfewa: just saboteursJun 02 10:27
schestowitzUnderground cultureJun 02 10:28
fewastupidJun 02 10:28
schestowitzImages of death and libelJun 02 10:28
fewajust stupidJun 02 10:28
schestowitzThey make Scientology look good for all I can tellJun 02 10:28
oiaohmIt goes against the fsdaily to ask people to downgrade a particular sites pages too.Jun 02 10:28
fewathey are attacking the wrong targetJun 02 10:28
oiaohmYou are ment to judge each artical on fsdaily based on content.Jun 02 10:29
oiaohmNo matter who provided.Jun 02 10:29
fewaoiaohm, meh, there are shill companies that click on digg and reddit all dayJun 02 10:29
oiaohmHeck in theory a artical by microsoft could be top of it.Jun 02 10:29
oiaohmAnd has been a few times.Jun 02 10:29
oiaohmCorrect way to defeat boycottnovell provide better news.Jun 02 10:30
oiaohmI guess schestowitz would be happy if someone managed to do that too.Jun 02 10:30
oiaohmNext question is where will they attack next.Jun 02 10:35
schestowitzThey did it in FSDaily beforeJun 02 10:39
schestowitzApparently I struck a nerveJun 02 10:39
schestowitzFirst DDOS, now this.Jun 02 10:39
oiaohmThe sane char seams like the ring leader.Jun 02 10:41
oiaohmThe problem they don't get you would be doing this just for your own self even if you did not have many visitors schestowitz.  Just to make head and tails of what you are reading.Jun 02 10:42
oiaohmAnd were doing this before you were getting lots of readers.Jun 02 10:42
schestowitz"SirCane" just E-mailed meJun 02 10:43
oiaohmUpset about ban.Jun 02 10:43
schestowitzWon't reply..Jun 02 10:43
schestowitz"Let's review what you've just said before kicking me. [...]Jun 02 10:43
oiaohmI would.  When was the last time you ban someone.Jun 02 10:44
oiaohmIt has to be years.Jun 02 10:44
schestowitzWhile I can understand that you're sore about the fact that people hate you, your site goes down a lot, and Linsux loves to rip on you guys and vote down the drivel you call "News" on FS Daily, let's get a few things straight:Jun 02 10:44
schestowitz1. Linsux.org, for the sake of Free Speech, has and will always rally against extremist fanboyism. BN is an extreme example of that, and so you end up being the butt of many of our jokes.Jun 02 10:44
schestowitz2. No one on the Linsux.org staff has ever actually DDOS'ed BN. It was a crude joke that another staffer dropped in your IRC, that was well-timed. Your reaction has been spectacular. If we would really have the capabilities to DDOS you, would we have bothered with continuing to annoy every aspect of your community, from our humble web site? No.Jun 02 10:44
schestowitz3. Technically speaking, I was doing nothing wrong. I have every right to crusade as an imaginary person on your IRC Chat, as long as I behave myself on your own turf. You talk frequently about how unfair the moderators on Digg and Ubuntuforums are, Roy. Why not be a better person and give me the benefit of the doubt on that one? I've never started up any trouble on your own site, so you technically have little reason to deny me acJun 02 10:44
schestowitzcess.Jun 02 10:44
schestowitz4. The Linsux community will continue to vote down topics that we personally dislike, mainly your more "Alarmist" articles that you seem to pull out from nowhere in particular. We at Linsux.org pride ourselves in writing bullshit, as you can tell by the plethora of our articles. If you would actually step back and notice the content of the majority of our topics, it would become wholly apparent to you that Linsux is, and will alwayJun 02 10:44
schestowitzs be an incredibly crude and insulting board of satirical nature. We live for this kind of thing.Jun 02 10:44
schestowitzAnyways, wrapping all that up into one, here is what I humbly request:Jun 02 10:44
schestowitz1) Unblock me from your IRC Channel. In return, I promise to continue my charade as some random uninformed person so that your boys don't try and pick any fights with me.Jun 02 10:44
schestowitz2) Get a grip of your own cronies, in return I will get a hold ofJun 02 10:44
schestowitzof mine and the voting-down/voting-up groups will end.Jun 02 10:45
schestowitzI certainly hope that you have the good sense to at least be a polite human being.Jun 02 10:45
schestowitz-Sean TilleyJun 02 10:45
schestowitz===Jun 02 10:45
schestowitzConfirming that he's the ringleader of the libelous siteJun 02 10:45
schestowitzThe one saying that I cut off my genitalia or something like that...Jun 02 10:45
oiaohmMy answer to that.  We do not promote voiting up or down ever in boycott novel.Jun 02 10:45
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+sean+tilley&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=enJun 02 10:46
schestowitzit's not worth spending time or or banking inJun 02 10:46
schestowitzIf we get the filters sorted out, then we can carry on interruptedJun 02 10:47
oiaohmIf you want to keep on running voting down and up groups until fsdaily starts banning anything about your site go ahead.Jun 02 10:47
oiaohmUse of freenode is a right.  Changing id in channel to hide who you are has always been a banable offence.Jun 02 10:48
schestowitzI am upset not about the verbal attacksJun 02 10:48
schestowitzBut if we turn away SEs as well, then it harms the site moreJun 02 10:49
oiaohmTopic of channel in freenode is decided by channel owner.   Being off topic or insulting can get you banned so get over it.Jun 02 10:49
schestowitztessier might be seeing the traffic, but it's bad compared to what the old server deliveredJun 02 10:49
schestowitzBasically, we're falling off some SEs and real users are slowed down or blockedJun 02 10:49
oiaohmNo answer is what the guy is expecting.Jun 02 10:51
oiaohmTell him that he is free to go head will screw with him.Jun 02 10:51
schestowitzMore blobs for Linux: RealPlayer for Mobile coming to Linux netbooks < http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/060209-realplayer-for-mobile-coming-to.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news >Jun 02 10:51
schestowitzoiaohm: I'd rather not spend time on thisJun 02 10:51
schestowitzI'm also very unsure about the source of network attackJun 02 10:52
schestowitzI think they reveled in it, but aren't the sourceJun 02 10:52
schestowitzI won't step on that site anyway.Jun 02 10:52
schestowitzGroklaw had anti-Groklaw sites tooJun 02 10:53
oiaohmJoking about ddos attacks is also a banable office in freenode.Jun 02 10:53
schestowitzOnes that PJ tried to keep away fromJun 02 10:53
schestowitzLike IPWarsJun 02 10:53
oiaohmTo be correct it can get you klinedJun 02 10:53
schestowitzAnd there are others like blogsJun 02 10:53
schestowitzMany obscure or invisible blogs out there attacked her (and still do)Jun 02 10:53
DaemonFCOK, bing's image search is pretty goodJun 02 10:53
oiaohmThat would be my answer any how that they should think think they are lucky to get off with 1 user banned.Jun 02 10:53
DaemonFCyou can select wallpaper size and it searches for your resolutionJun 02 10:53
oiaohmFrom a channel.Jun 02 10:54
oiaohmCompared to klined from the complete network.Jun 02 10:54
schestowitzYeah.Jun 02 10:54
oiaohmAdmitting that one of them did the joke is enough to have all of them klined.Jun 02 10:55
oiaohmSince he should have been out to kick the person ass for doing it.Jun 02 10:55
oiaohmNot the answer he would be expecting.Jun 02 10:55
oiaohmBesides the joke is illegal its hindering police investagations.Jun 02 10:57
fewahttp://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13743278#topJun 02 10:58
fewaIt is only a beginning, but perhaps this time around the industry will not have to go through a long proprietary period before rediscovering the virtues of openness.Jun 02 10:58
schestowitzI saw this article...Jun 02 11:01
schestowitzTypical EconomistJun 02 11:01
schestowitzNot good coverage where money is not the centre of gravity, BUT..Jun 02 11:01
schestowitz"The “free and open-source software” movement, as it is officially called, has come a long way from its anti-establishment origins. Pioneers such as Richard Stallman did not want users to be locked into monolithic products, but to be able to change programs in whatever way they wanted, and to share their modifications."Jun 02 11:02
schestowitzBoth RMS and ESR would disareeJun 02 11:02
schestowitz“free and open-source software” movementJun 02 11:02
schestowitz*disagreeJun 02 11:02
fewayeah the "officially called" shows complete misunderstandingJun 02 11:03
schestowitzThey at least tryJun 02 11:03
fewaimplies that that represents everyone and that there is a official pontiff of the movementJun 02 11:03
schestowitzI know journos (open source ones) who hate this publicationJun 02 11:03
schestowitzGlyn Moody in particularJun 02 11:03
schestowitzhttp://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/07/egregious-economist.htmlJun 02 11:04
fewahey just have a very structured idea of the worldJun 02 11:04
schestowitzThe Economist spread a lot of garbageJun 02 11:04
schestowitzLike the MAFIAA propaganda termsJun 02 11:04
schestowitzWhich are then parroted by those who take the Economist for authorityJun 02 11:04
fewajesus fuckJun 02 11:04
fewacan the economist even read SCOTUSJun 02 11:05
fewaof course there is a CoI thereJun 02 11:05
schestowitzIt's funny. well...Jun 02 11:05
schestowitzSometimes you land on business press...Jun 02 11:05
schestowitzAnd it's like  a whole different universe when they talk about FOSSJun 02 11:05
schestowitzMoving from FOSS blog to them...Jun 02 11:05
fewainterference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright: ... 'an infringer of the copyright.' ...Jun 02 11:06
schestowitzYou find yourself in a land of malls whereas you're used to tents or somethingJun 02 11:06
fewa—Dowling v. United States,Jun 02 11:06
schestowitzYou don't feel like they belong to the same vicilisationJun 02 11:06
schestowitz*CivilisationJun 02 11:06
schestowitzTwilight Zone so to speak.Jun 02 11:06
DaemonFCThe people that made the Valkyrie DVD put some unusually harsh copy protection on itJun 02 11:06
schestowitzAnd the writers-- well, look at their historyJun 02 11:06
DaemonFCand some hard words in the warning messageJun 02 11:06
schestowitzTHEY NEVER have any history writing about the subjectJun 02 11:07
DaemonFCthreatening you if you made a backup copy for your own useJun 02 11:07
schestowitzIt's like you're being assigned to write about cancel treatment (as a FOSS person)Jun 02 11:07
schestowitzThen you fling together some words you found in articlesJun 02 11:07
fewapeople need to organize and get an injunction against the MAFIAAJun 02 11:07
schestowitzThen hope it makes some senseJun 02 11:07
fewaetcJun 02 11:07
schestowitzAnd the editor admires the naked emperor which is the draftJun 02 11:07
fewaprevent them from associating copyright infringement with theftJun 02 11:07
schestowitzTheft now means replicatingJun 02 11:08
schestowitzAnd theft can be equated to violently taking cargoJun 02 11:08
schestowitzNot shopliftingJun 02 11:08
schestowitzOr sharing for that matterJun 02 11:08
fewabut seriously, why dont parties get an injunction against the abuse of the term?Jun 02 11:09
DaemonFCthe new DVD MackeralVision bullshit tries to crash your computer nowJun 02 11:09
DaemonFCif you attempt to strip it from the disc imageJun 02 11:09
DaemonFCAnyDVD can break itJun 02 11:09
DaemonFCbut DVD Decrypter will just eat all your CPU time and force you to shutdown the system to make it stopJun 02 11:10
DaemonFCWhen MackeralVision and MAFIAA threatened Lightning UK! he turned DVD Decrypter into a standard disc burning toolJun 02 11:11
schestowitzHeh.Jun 02 11:12
schestowitzSounds liuke funJun 02 11:12
schestowitzWhy mess about with this junk?Jun 02 11:13
schestowitzBoytcottMAFIAAJun 02 11:13
schestowitzThey sure boycott your rightsJun 02 11:13
fewaand they dont make good moviesJun 02 11:13
DaemonFCDVD Decrypter is now ImgBurn, it can't decrypt DVDs anymoreJun 02 11:13
DaemonFCbut it can do most other disc burning tasksJun 02 11:14
fewaimgburn is an awesome program stillJun 02 11:14
DaemonFCyes it itJun 02 11:14
DaemonFC*isJun 02 11:14
fewathe only decent cd burner for the windows platformJun 02 11:14
DaemonFC2 megabytes and more useful than most payware disc burning suites that are 500 times largerJun 02 11:14
fewaand it even officially supports wineJun 02 11:14
schestowitzfewa: they make big budgets moviesJun 02 11:15
DaemonFCI about shit myself when I went a few years ago to download an eval copy of NeroJun 02 11:15
schestowitzBut I've seen some big budget crapJun 02 11:15
fewa^^^Jun 02 11:15
DaemonFCand the setup file alone was going to be over 300 megsJun 02 11:15
fewathe good stuff is the small cap stuffJun 02 11:15
schestowitzLike when I went with my sister to that Ben Siller junkJun 02 11:15
schestowitzWhat was it called?Jun 02 11:15
fewanapolean dynomiteJun 02 11:15
DaemonFCit wanted over 1.5 GB of space to install itselfJun 02 11:15
schestowitzMonsoon something?Jun 02 11:15
DaemonFCand it tries to put in browser toolbardJun 02 11:15
schestowitzUTTER rubbishJun 02 11:15
schestowitzWe left in the middleJun 02 11:15
DaemonFCand all kidns of unrelated crapJun 02 11:15
fewaall the films that never show because of music licencingJun 02 11:16
fewaeven if the only cost <$500 to makeJun 02 11:16
DaemonFCschestowitz: Monsoon bittorrent client?Jun 02 11:16
schestowitzNope wait..Jun 02 11:16
DaemonFCUbuntu offers thatJun 02 11:16
DaemonFCwell, most distros doJun 02 11:16
DaemonFCit's worthless thoughJun 02 11:16
DaemonFCno blocklist supportJun 02 11:16
DaemonFCrequires MonoJun 02 11:16
schestowitzhttp://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001774/Jun 02 11:16
DaemonFCis why OpenSuse throws it in by defaultJun 02 11:16
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 11:16
oiaohmEats memory like the plague.Jun 02 11:17
oiaohmMakes firefox look memory effective.Jun 02 11:17
fewaDaemonFC, deluge is the best bittorrent clientJun 02 11:17
DaemonFCewwwJun 02 11:17
oiaohmThat takes doing DaemonFCJun 02 11:17
fewafor linux, no contestJun 02 11:17
DaemonFCnow Deluge eats memory like theres no tomorrowJun 02 11:17
oiaohmOn windows it does.Jun 02 11:17
DaemonFCeasily 5-6 times more than Transmission doesJun 02 11:17
fewayou are using an ancient versionJun 02 11:17
DaemonFCnoJun 02 11:17
DaemonFCon Linux tooJun 02 11:17
oiaohmOld version.Jun 02 11:17
DaemonFCit's just worse about that on WindowsJun 02 11:18
schestowitzThat's the little s*: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0942385/Jun 02 11:18
DaemonFCbecause the Windows port is shitJun 02 11:18
oiaohmThere was a Old version with a rreally bad leak.Jun 02 11:18
schestowitz"Tropic Thunder"Jun 02 11:18
DaemonFCschestowitz: I watched that earlierJun 02 11:18
schestowitzSynopsis: bunch of random violence with lame attempts to humourJun 02 11:18
DaemonFCone of the DVDs I rentedJun 02 11:18
oiaohmSomeone had remember a key free statement DaemonFCJun 02 11:18
oiaohmBut they had commented it out.Jun 02 11:18
fewaDaemonFC, the windows port is droppedJun 02 11:18
DaemonFCtaken out back and shot?Jun 02 11:18
DaemonFCgoodJun 02 11:18
fewathe porter leftJun 02 11:19
DaemonFCschestowitz: I agree with the SynopsisJun 02 11:19
fewayeah transmission is decentJun 02 11:19
DaemonFCthat was a really awful movieJun 02 11:19
fewai just like deluge's featuresJun 02 11:19
DaemonFCuTorrentJun 02 11:19
DaemonFCis what I useJun 02 11:19
fewautorrent is goodJun 02 11:20
oiaohmSomeone picked it up again.Jun 02 11:20
fewano reason to use another windows clientJun 02 11:20
oiaohmWindows version of deluge is back up todate.Jun 02 11:20
DaemonFCuTorrent works in WineJun 02 11:20
oiaohmBadlyJun 02 11:20
DaemonFCit's built with Wine in mindJun 02 11:20
fewawho would use that?Jun 02 11:20
oiaohmuTorrent in wine has some major problems DaemonFCJun 02 11:20
oiaohmYou are truly better off with a uptodate deluge than uTorrent in wine.Jun 02 11:21
fewaor transmission etc if you are a lightweightJun 02 11:21
oiaohmYou don't end up wiht 200% cpu load spikes.Jun 02 11:21
oiaohmSomething to do with utorrent process management.Jun 02 11:22
fewapretty sure transmission uses libtorrentJun 02 11:22
fewai submitted a small patch so deluge could authenticate with pamJun 02 11:25
schestowitzGood news for Java and Red hat (which dislikes .NET/Mono): http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Red-Hat-Gives-Java-Developers-Choice-179191/?kc=rssJun 02 11:28
fewaso fedora doesnt ship mono by default?Jun 02 11:28
DaemonFCFedora does include MonoJun 02 11:31
fewaby default?Jun 02 11:31
DaemonFCyesJun 02 11:31
DaemonFCand TomboyJun 02 11:31
fewawhy doesnt redhat replace that?Jun 02 11:31
fewagnoteJun 02 11:32
DaemonFCWho knowsJun 02 11:32
schestowitzReview of Good Ubuntu Derivative (Good OS 3.1) http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2347544,00.aspJun 02 11:32
DaemonFCTomboy is a piece of bloatware no matter how you feel about MonoJun 02 11:32
schestowitzgnote yesJun 02 11:32
DaemonFCit has no business being included and running by defaultJun 02 11:32
schestowitzfewa: in Fedora 12Jun 02 11:32
schestowitzThey speak about itJun 02 11:32
schestowitzAnf the Live CD has no MonoJun 02 11:32
DaemonFChmmmmJun 02 11:32
DaemonFCoiaohm: Spyware Terminator has ClamAV integratedJun 02 11:33
DaemonFCwith realtime scanningJun 02 11:33
DaemonFCfor some reason Wikipedia keeps deleting the article about Spyware TerminatorJun 02 11:36
oiaohmUsed does have the nasty issue of bricking windows.Jun 02 11:36
oiaohmLittle bit aggreeisve on registry cleaning.Jun 02 11:36
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware_TerminatorJun 02 11:37
DaemonFCThis page has been deleted. The deletion log for the page is provided below for reference.Jun 02 11:37
DaemonFC:PJun 02 11:37
DaemonFCtypicalJun 02 11:37
oiaohmAlso there is a licence dispute.  Remember clamav is gpl.  No source is provided.Jun 02 11:38
oiaohmI wish wikipedia would just take the line publish the problem not just delete link in case of something like that.Jun 02 11:39
DaemonFCwho's not providing source?Jun 02 11:40
DaemonFCClamWin has a sourceforge pageJun 02 11:40
oiaohmSpyware_Terminator.Jun 02 11:40
DaemonFCthey don't need toJun 02 11:40
DaemonFCif they're just calling the engine upJun 02 11:41
oiaohmThey don't include a clear rerfence to it on there site.Jun 02 11:41
oiaohmAs I said dispute.Jun 02 11:41
oiaohmNothing major should have been settled ages ago.Jun 02 11:42
oiaohmClam AntiVirus (ClamAV) cause of problem.   Clamwin is not clamav by the way.  It uses clamav source code but has some of its own patches and send a different id when it updates on clamav servers.Jun 02 11:44
oiaohmFew little things in Spyware Terminators documentation needs fixing basically DaemonFCJun 02 11:45
oiaohmAnd yes those wrong is enough to have your page delete repeating from the wikipedia.Jun 02 11:46
DaemonFCClamWin is better than using nothing anywayJun 02 11:50
DaemonFCthose on access antivirus suites are almost as bad as the virusesJun 02 11:50
DaemonFCthey burrow into the kernel and make usually Windows even more temperamentalJun 02 11:50
DaemonFCthey take a lot of resources in any eventJun 02 11:50
oiaohmIf they get there web page sorted out and saying the right things.  There page will live in the wikipedia.Jun 02 11:54
oiaohmI just wish people would not presume stuff so much.Jun 02 11:55
fewathey have a shit is the nvidia driver really 8 megs?Jun 02 11:55
fewait hugeJun 02 11:55
fewa25X bigger than the next, nfsJun 02 11:56
oiaohmSo you are not talking about the 112 meg installer for windows.Jun 02 11:56
oiaohmAnd 21 megs for Linux.Jun 02 11:57
fewawindows drivers are a joke, they are all bloatJun 02 11:57
fewaand they will never give anybody the corporate real driverJun 02 11:57
oiaohmNvidia drivers are huge things.Jun 02 11:57
fewalike printer bundling shitJun 02 11:58
oiaohmThere is not that much crap in that nvidia driver for windows.Jun 02 11:58
fewahmmJun 02 11:58
oiaohmIts mostly bundled drivers for everything.Jun 02 11:58
fewaprobably a few of themJun 02 11:58
fewaits identical almost to the linux driver i hearJun 02 11:59
oiaohmLot more inf's than drives to make hardware detect work.Jun 02 11:59
oiaohmAnd all the direct x stuff.Jun 02 11:59
fewaso ~8M x2Jun 02 11:59
fewao 112Jun 02 11:59
oiaohmSame core binary blob at kernel level is shared.Jun 02 11:59
oiaohmEverything above that is different on the two platforms.Jun 02 12:00
fewabut that linux blog must be all bloat to be a whomping 8M of kernel mode stuffJun 02 12:00
oiaohmThe reason why anyone who knows Nvidia drivers will be happen with the open source one works.Jun 02 12:00
fewaneuveouJun 02 12:01
oiaohmLot of 3d processing and the like is done software in kernel mode if video card don't suport it.Jun 02 12:01
fewafedora runs it i should try it outJun 02 12:01
oiaohmNot really good enough for what I do yet.Jun 02 12:01
oiaohmblender spits chips.Jun 02 12:01
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DaemonFCNvidia also has to include their own OpenGL driverJun 02 12:22
DaemonFCbut that was actually always a requirement on WindowsJun 02 12:22
DaemonFCpeople act like it's some new Vista thingJun 02 12:22
fewacause windows blacklists openglJun 02 12:23
fewacause they want the lockin of directxJun 02 12:23
oiaohmThey do on Linux as well DaemonFCJun 02 12:23
oiaohmTo be correct Nvidia driver install hunts down any other opengl installed on the system and disables it.Jun 02 12:24
DaemonFCWindows does not blacklist OpenGLJun 02 12:27
fewano it does notJun 02 12:27
fewabut doesnt it not permit it in the drivers that are distrobuted with the OS?Jun 02 12:28
DaemonFCno, the drivers shipped through Windows Update have the OpenGL ICDJun 02 12:28
DaemonFCthey don't have PhysX thoughJun 02 12:28
DaemonFCso you may want the Nvidia bundle for thatJun 02 12:28
DaemonFCbut that's got nothing to do with graphicsJun 02 12:29
schestowitzdo you know the trolls who go like, "I use Linux, BUT..."?Jun 02 12:31
schestowitzHow about this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBaAJcv7Vxg&feature=PlayList&p=5135AFF78C508919&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16Jun 02 12:31
DaemonFC"I'm a (blank)....but" is the oldest trick in the book to preempt criticismJun 02 12:43
schestowitzYesJun 02 12:43
DaemonFCIt's really only used by total douchebagsJun 02 12:43
schestowitz[put anything you dislike there]Jun 02 12:43
DaemonFClike "No offense....but"Jun 02 12:43
schestowitz"With all due respect.."Jun 02 12:43
schestowitz"I'm tolerant of everything.."Jun 02 12:43
schestowitz"I love free speech"Jun 02 12:43
schestowitz"Everyone is free to do as they wish, but..."Jun 02 12:43
DaemonFC"I'm tolerant of everything, but here's why you're a disgusting fag that can't go near my children"Jun 02 12:44
DaemonFCMy favoriteJun 02 12:44
DaemonFCJoe The Plumber used that gemJun 02 12:44
DaemonFCor something to that effectJun 02 12:44
DaemonFC"I have a lot of freinds that are like that"Jun 02 12:45
DaemonFC"but they all know that I'd never let them near my children"Jun 02 12:45
fewaits called condescendingJun 02 12:45
DaemonFCIt's not his kids he'd be worried about if I had my wayJun 02 12:47
DaemonFCcause he'd be eating his meals through a straw from that moment onJun 02 12:47
fewaits the age old high class trickJun 02 12:48
oiaohmJust hope he does not have a good defence.Jun 02 12:48
fewapretend you are one of the people you are criticizingJun 02 12:48
DaemonFCwell, he's obviously not very intelligent, he can't even tell the same lie twiceJun 02 12:48
schestowitzDaemonFC: watch the whole videoJun 02 12:49
schestowitzGood for hyporisyJun 02 12:49
DaemonFChe's proof that some people just believe whatever they wantJun 02 12:49
schestowitzHyporicyJun 02 12:49
oiaohmIt was one of my oldest tricks to start a major fight insult a person while having a stronger person behind me.  Avoid punch then watch guy get decked.Jun 02 12:49
DaemonFCregardless of how obviously retarded those beliefs areJun 02 12:49
schestowitzLike the free speech part, DDOS attack being an attack on (gagging)Jun 02 12:49
DaemonFCno matter what is done to debunk themJun 02 12:49
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DaemonFCbut then again, about 8.6 out of every 10 people in the country I live in believe Jesus rode around on a dinosaur 5,000 years ago when he made the earthJun 02 12:50
DaemonFCso who knowsJun 02 12:50
schestowitzAnother popular phrase is "I have a lot of [ETHNICITY] friends, but/and"Jun 02 12:50
oiaohmIts is bit like the pirate one.  I wish to share with people.   Ok do you mind if I come and take everything in your house and give it away.Jun 02 12:51
DaemonFCThey all tell you to go read the bible, and you can'tJun 02 12:51
DaemonFCbecause it's so poorly written and self-contradictoryJun 02 12:51
fewaDaemonFC, they havnt read it eitherJun 02 12:51
DaemonFCI couldn't keep up with it through one chapter if I triedJun 02 12:51
fewacause its a badly written contradicting piece of crapJun 02 12:52
DaemonFCbasically it's all so vague that you can interpret it to mean precisely anything you want it toJun 02 12:52
DaemonFCas evidenced by the 100 or so factions of ChristianityJun 02 12:52
oiaohmBibble in old english I found quite readable.   I will give you mondern day ones are pricks DaemonFCJun 02 12:52
fewa...however.... the opening of genesis has some importance in history and beliefsJun 02 12:52
oiaohmAlso raw transation from greek was not too bad either.Jun 02 12:53
DaemonFCI don't see whyJun 02 12:53
oiaohmSeams to be more distance from the source documents it is the worse it is.Jun 02 12:53
DaemonFCpeople have written other fairy tales that I find to be way more inspiringJun 02 12:53
oiaohmNote greek was one of the first languages the bibble was written in.Jun 02 12:54
fewai had a talk with a scholar who can read the aramaic etc and he had a very interesting talk about the mistranslations that became accepted factJun 02 12:54
oiaohmThere are a lot of errors in mondern day english bibbles as well.Jun 02 12:54
fewaanyways this is a horribly boring subjectJun 02 12:54
oiaohmYes it also makes them more unreadable.Jun 02 12:55
DaemonFCschestowitz: @ 7:41Jun 02 12:55
DaemonFCcouldn't agree with that statement moreJun 02 12:55
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DaemonFC7:41-7:52Jun 02 12:55
oiaohmhttp://biblebrowser.com/luke/7-41.htm  << DaemonFCJun 02 12:59
DaemonFCwas talking about time markers on the youtube videoJun 02 13:00
DaemonFCbut personally I'd rather act in the sequel to 2girls1cup than click that linkJun 02 13:01
fewalolololJun 02 13:01
oiaohmBut its just happened to be suitable DaemonFCJun 02 13:02
oiaohmKing James Bible is the oldest of the 3 bibles there.Jun 02 13:03
DaemonFCOK, so I'd be the guy with the $500,000 debt and Jesus could be like the mob enforcerJun 02 13:03
DaemonFCcause I'm all about parables :PJun 02 13:03
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schestowitzI removed the Google ads last night.Jun 02 13:10
schestowitz I put Ad Bard in the sidebar of all pages (under "paying the hosting bill"). I wonder if I can I do more than one ad slot per page?Jun 02 13:10
schestowitz> <DaemonFC> because it's so poorly written and self-contradictoryJun 02 13:10
schestowitzThis way you can pick and matchJun 02 13:10
schestowitzJustify compassionJun 02 13:10
schestowitzAnd justify genocide tooJun 02 13:10
schestowitzBut...Jun 02 13:11
schestowitzthe bible is the fusion of many booksJun 02 13:11
schestowitzWritten at different timeJun 02 13:11
schestowitzby different blokesJun 02 13:11
schestowitzSo to expect contradiction is not to expect one person to change POV over his/her lifetimeJun 02 13:11
schestowitzUnless of couse God wrote it or it was written InHisSpirit{tm}Jun 02 13:12
oiaohmIts made worse that english form can never be a pure translation from the native writen languages.Jun 02 13:14
oiaohmBecause many words in the source could translate to about 10 words in english and some don't even translate to english and keep there meaning.Jun 02 13:15
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DaemonFCschestowitz: And the Catholics decided what would be in theirsJun 02 13:18
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DaemonFCand the protestants decided to ditch what they didn't agree with from the Catholic bibleJun 02 13:18
DaemonFCso the same people that say you can't pick and choose what to believe are members of an organization that did just thatJun 02 13:19
DaemonFChmmm, the old Live search is deadJun 02 13:20
DaemonFCeven on MSN/Live's other sitesJun 02 13:20
DaemonFCclusterfuck anyone?Jun 02 13:20
DaemonFCwhy can't they move all of their services to one name?Jun 02 13:21
DaemonFCinstead of three different types of layoutsJun 02 13:21
DaemonFCand 4 different websitesJun 02 13:21
schestowitzMessJun 02 13:24
schestowitzMaybe they hope something will stickJun 02 13:24
oiaohmGet even funnier hell replaced 2 words.  aidhV(hadies) and another that has a physical place in the king james bible.Jun 02 13:25
schestowitzIf Bong [sic] fails, they'll drop back to familiar names like MSNJun 02 13:25
fewathey havnt configured their servers porely, live.com -301-> www.live.com -301-> www.bing.comJun 02 13:25
DaemonFCThey're rolling out Bing because Live Search flopped, but their services are still all Windows LiveJun 02 13:25
DaemonFCbut you have to go to MSN to get the weather reportJun 02 13:25
schestowitzPeople composed a lot of thing in the ancient daydsJun 02 13:26
schestowitz(thousands of years)Jun 02 13:26
schestowitz*thingsJun 02 13:26
DaemonFCBing seems better than Live Search, but a lot of this is just trying to rename the problemJun 02 13:26
DaemonFCto get the stigma to go awayJun 02 13:26
schestowitzWhy focus on just one set of scrolls?Jun 02 13:26
schestowitzWhere it's assume that the world is flat and there is hell underneath (which is true, but it's magma, not Hell)Jun 02 13:26
DaemonFCpeople have already used Live Search once or twice and found out it sucked and gave upJun 02 13:27
DaemonFCso they roll out the new search but can't call it LiveJun 02 13:27
schestowitzThey pay for itJun 02 13:27
oiaohmAnd if it still sucks people will still find out and not be back.Jun 02 13:27
schestowitzLet them spend another $.1bnJun 02 13:27
DaemonFCI've been using Bing todayJun 02 13:27
DaemonFCI've got it set up as my default everythingJun 02 13:28
DaemonFCjust to get a feel for itJun 02 13:28
oiaohmAnd the results.Jun 02 13:28
DaemonFCit may not stay that way, I've found several things that aggravate me that Google does better, but I've also found a few things that Bing seems to handle smoother than GoogleJun 02 13:28
DaemonFCregular search is slightly worse than Google, but Bing's image search is much betterJun 02 13:29
DaemonFCI don't know how well it will do, but I doubt anyone will miss Live SearchJun 02 13:30
DaemonFCthe search results on Bing seem to be fairly unbiased at leastJun 02 13:30
DaemonFClike you can still find bittorrent sites and they don't try to muffle Linux and free software related searches to page 2 or anythingJun 02 13:31
DaemonFCbeing from Microsoft you just get this presumption that they'll just delist anything they don't want you to go nearJun 02 13:32
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DaemonFChttp://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9274/85028898.pngJun 02 13:35
DaemonFCexampleJun 02 13:35
schestowitztacone has some examplesJun 02 13:36
schestowitzAnti-Linux bias to be preciseJun 02 13:36
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/605/65799300.pngJun 02 13:38
DaemonFCeverything seems pretty straightforward to meJun 02 13:38
oiaohmSo by the sound if it at least it works.Jun 02 13:38
oiaohmBut no call on how good its going to go.Jun 02 13:39
DaemonFCso far I find that it works fairly wellJun 02 13:39
DaemonFCwith the odd exception of something I'm used to google havingJun 02 13:39
DaemonFClike searching through news for exampleJun 02 13:39
DaemonFCvideo and image search are excellentJun 02 13:40
DaemonFCregular search is decentJun 02 13:40
DaemonFCit's clear that they are at least trying to come up with a compelling alternative to GoogleJun 02 13:40
DaemonFCcompetition is not a bad thingJun 02 13:41
schestowitzMicrosoft hates competitionJun 02 13:41
DaemonFCbut I have a feeling it won't stay clean very longJun 02 13:41
schestowitzAnd ti breaks the lawJun 02 13:41
schestowitzBut you're a bit of a Microsoft fanboi, so...Jun 02 13:41
schestowitzAnyway, I gotta run...Jun 02 13:41
DaemonFCoh sweetJun 02 13:41
DaemonFChehJun 02 13:42
DaemonFCwhen you mouse over a video thumbnailJun 02 13:42
DaemonFCit starts playingJun 02 13:42
DaemonFCin the thumbnailJun 02 13:42
DaemonFChttp://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=amazing+athiest&form=QBVRJun 02 13:43
DaemonFCheheJun 02 13:43
DaemonFCmouse over one of themJun 02 13:43
DaemonFChttp://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=amazing+athiest&docid=805822333571&mid=866942E53A6CE88CFDAE866942E53A6CE88CFDAE&FORM=VIVR9Jun 02 13:44
DaemonFChmmm, you never expect new ideas from MicrosoftJun 02 13:45
DaemonFCbut they worked a few inJun 02 13:45
DaemonFCgo figureJun 02 13:45
nicktasticNo one expects the Spanish InquisitionJun 02 13:59
fewaniceJun 02 14:00
oiaohmWe can bet one thing google will improve.Jun 02 14:10
oiaohmThe question is can MS keep going in a feature war with google.Jun 02 14:10
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DaemonFCwe can only hopeJun 02 14:30
DaemonFCno company invests in improving unless there's fierce competitionJun 02 14:30
oiaohmMy problem is I am not sure MS really has the resources to be getting into a battle with google.Jun 02 14:32
oiaohmgoogle is releasing the wave open source so that is going to develop in many interesting directions including competing with a set of MS core products.Jun 02 14:32
oiaohmSo its a cross fire.  I think googles move will be more damaging.Jun 02 14:34
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DaemonFCGoogle doesn't really give a flying fuck about free softwareJun 02 14:47
DaemonFCthey hijack it because the work is basiaclly already done on itJun 02 14:47
DaemonFCala AppleJun 02 14:47
DaemonFCoiaohm: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=461Jun 02 14:47
DaemonFCThoughts?Jun 02 14:47
nicktasticIts that simple, eh?Jun 02 14:47
DaemonFCthis guy was saying that this particular vulnerability affected Firefox and not IE only because IE had the Protected Mode and Firefox doesn'tJun 02 14:48
DaemonFCnicktastic: Pretty muchJun 02 14:48
DaemonFCwriting an OS or a web browser is not easy, so Apple and Google just commandeer other peoples work and rebrand itJun 02 14:48
DaemonFCgive back the minimum amount they legally have to to be in compliance with the licenseJun 02 14:49
oiaohmAnd why is the OS running DEP disabled.Jun 02 14:49
oiaohmIn the first place.Jun 02 14:49
DaemonFConly on 32-bitJun 02 14:49
DaemonFCx86-64 it's always on by defaultJun 02 14:49
oiaohmStillJun 02 14:49
oiaohmThis day and age.Jun 02 14:50
DaemonFCyou can change it to AlwaysOn in x86Jun 02 14:50
oiaohmKinda would be common sence.Jun 02 14:50
oiaohmIf programs don't run with it stiff.Jun 02 14:50
DaemonFC"What's interesting about this is the fact that Firefox doesn't have the benefit of Protected Mode under Vista, which can somewhat mitigate the damage that can be done if Internet Explorer 7 is exploited by this vulnerability. While UAC will prevent the exploit from infecting the system with a persistent backdoor or rootkit, nothing prevents damage to the user's data unless Protected Mode is implemeJun 02 14:51
DaemonFCnted. If someone using Firefox gets exploited with this or any other vulnerability, that malicious code gets the same permissions as the user, which means it can read and write to all of that user's data.Jun 02 14:51
DaemonFCwhich is what I said earlierJun 02 14:51
oiaohmAnd sorry if the expoit is designed to start a service as that bug allows.  The extra so call protection in IE is worthless.Jun 02 14:52
oiaohmBasically turn DEP on.  Should be the instruction with that bug.  Not making out that IE is some how better.Jun 02 14:52
oiaohmYep univisal attack that will take out either browser can be coded.Jun 02 14:53
DaemonFC"This is unfortunate because Firefox alone in recent months has had more exploits than Windows XP and Vista combined and is in serious need of mitigation measures (not to mention better code auditing)."Jun 02 14:53
DaemonFChehJun 02 14:53
oiaohmMS does not publish the proff of concept that get found against there products.Jun 02 14:55
oiaohmAnd there have been a lot of bug recenty that are windows only.Jun 02 14:56
oiaohmIe firefox using windows parts and the windows part having a flaw.Jun 02 14:56
oiaohmThat is nothing to be happy with MS about either.Jun 02 14:57
DaemonFCNorton is celling cheap antivirusJun 02 15:03
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_Hicham_Hi All!Jun 02 15:03
DaemonFCprobably trying to poach some free antivirus usersJun 02 15:03
_Hicham_DaemonFC Pro-VirusJun 02 15:04
oiaohmBest part is its fud DaemonFC.  http://secunia.com/advisories/product/12434/  Firefox 2.0 most users are not using have the flaws.  http://secunia.com/advisories/product/19089/ Firefox 3.0 is never did and is 100 percent patched.Jun 02 15:04
DaemonFCMicrosoft's free antivirus will be out sometime within the next month I heardJun 02 15:04
oiaohmHopefully it works this time DaemonFCJun 02 15:04
DaemonFCFirefox 2 is not supportedJun 02 15:04
_Hicham_we should patch DaemonFC tooJun 02 15:04
_Hicham_I will create a patch for himJun 02 15:05
DaemonFCmeh, all it has to do is integrate into Windows Defender's scanning engineJun 02 15:05
DaemonFCit makes senseJun 02 15:05
oiaohmYet those bugs were on Firefox 2 DaemonFCJun 02 15:05
_Hicham_recompile him from sourceJun 02 15:05
DaemonFCand is not much more difficult than what they haveJun 02 15:05
_Hicham_and make an rpmJun 02 15:05
_Hicham_Windows Defender can't even defend himselfJun 02 15:06
DaemonFCwell, like Windows Defender, it never has to bother the userJun 02 15:06
_Hicham_DaemonFC : do u log in to Windows Vista with Admin privilegies?Jun 02 15:07
DaemonFCmehJun 02 15:07
oiaohmVista has the admin account locked off.Jun 02 15:07
_Hicham_noJun 02 15:07
_Hicham_It doesn't oiaohmJun 02 15:07
DaemonFCVista administrator is a lot different than XP administratorJun 02 15:07
DaemonFCand yes it does lock out the Administrator accountJun 02 15:07
oiaohmBut you scan still run a service as a normal user on Vista and get straight to system user.Jun 02 15:07
oiaohmAnd basically clear the complete system out.Jun 02 15:08
oiaohmAt some point MS has to fix that bug.Jun 02 15:08
oiaohmJust has to.Jun 02 15:08
oiaohmThey are very much locking the front door and leaving the back door completely open.Jun 02 15:09
oiaohmUAC does not even complain about it.Jun 02 15:09
_Hicham_DaemonFC will patch it soonJun 02 15:10
_Hicham_don't worry oiaohmJun 02 15:10
oiaohmThe bug dates from the first version of NT.Jun 02 15:11
oiaohmIts like the oldest back door in the system.Jun 02 15:11
_Hicham_great backdoor by the wayJun 02 15:12
_Hicham_it is very usefulJun 02 15:12
_Hicham_also lsass vulnerabilities are also greatJun 02 15:12
_Hicham_really Windows should existJun 02 15:12
_Hicham_it has very useful featuresJun 02 15:13
oiaohmNo MS should get sued for per neglegence.Jun 02 15:13
_Hicham_why?Jun 02 15:13
oiaohmper/pureJun 02 15:13
DaemonFCyeah, just like FirefoxJun 02 15:13
oiaohmLeave a back door like that operational for so long.Jun 02 15:13
DaemonFCand Red HatJun 02 15:13
_Hicham_they are doing a great jobJun 02 15:13
DaemonFCand anyone else that makes a program with any unintended security bugsJun 02 15:13
oiaohmFirefox has never left a flaw in a supported program open that long.Jun 02 15:13
oiaohmMS hold the record for the longest standing backdoor that works.Jun 02 15:14
_Hicham_DaemonFC : RedHat systems are the most secured to dayJun 02 15:14
DaemonFCthat anyone knows ofJun 02 15:14
_Hicham_go see their historyJun 02 15:14
_Hicham_unlike u Mr DaemonFCJun 02 15:14
oiaohmIt was found in the first 2 months of NT usage and was reported then DaemonFC.Jun 02 15:14
_Hicham_u don't do a shitJun 02 15:14
_Hicham_and keep talkingJun 02 15:14
DaemonFCif there's a bug in Gecko that's been there for 10 years and they quietly patch itJun 02 15:15
DaemonFCnobody ever knowsJun 02 15:15
oiaohmSo how can a reported back door still exist.Jun 02 15:15
_Hicham_nobody ever knows?Jun 02 15:15
DaemonFCthere's been plenty of bugs in Gecko that have been there that long and still aren't fixedJun 02 15:15
_Hicham_are u dumb?Jun 02 15:15
DaemonFCthat people do know aboutJun 02 15:15
_Hicham_do u have a brain?Jun 02 15:15
_Hicham_or just some shit in ur head Mr DaemonFC?Jun 02 15:15
oiaohmThere is a difference between a known back door and something that just causes program to fail to do something DaemonFC.Jun 02 15:15
DaemonFCshoddy spaghetti code invites those kinds of problemsJun 02 15:16
_Hicham_xulrunner is one of the most audited code in the worldJun 02 15:16
_Hicham_and Gecko alsoJun 02 15:16
_Hicham_plenty of apps are based on itJun 02 15:16
oiaohmA known backdoor kinda should be on the first to fix DaemonFC.Jun 02 15:16
DaemonFCcontrolled by a bureaucracy that stamps everything WONTFIXJun 02 15:17
DaemonFCthat helpsJun 02 15:17
_Hicham_WONTFIX?Jun 02 15:17
oiaohmSo does windows by the way with WONTFIX DaemonFCJun 02 15:17
_Hicham_give me an exampleJun 02 15:17
_Hicham_Mr TrollJun 02 15:17
DaemonFCthey deny a lot of problems existJun 02 15:17
DaemonFCas they continue to get worseJun 02 15:17
oiaohmI waited 12 years for a bug in IE that was a remote exploit to be fixed.Jun 02 15:17
DaemonFCmemory leaks and XPCOM baggageJun 02 15:17
_Hicham_because they don't existJun 02 15:17
DaemonFCfor one exampleJun 02 15:17
oiaohmSomeone had to write an attack for it in 2007 so it got fixed.Jun 02 15:17
_Hicham_because the problem is not reproducibleJun 02 15:18
oiaohmEven that I had the proff.Jun 02 15:18
_Hicham_or not well reportedJun 02 15:18
oiaohmI have produced a proff code to mozilla of a exploit and it has been fixed quick smart.Jun 02 15:18
_Hicham_normalJun 02 15:18
oiaohmNo questions.Jun 02 15:18
DaemonFCFirefox usually swells to several hundred megsJun 02 15:18
_Hicham_Mr DaemonFC is really the most stupid person in the worldJun 02 15:18
oiaohmRememebr I sent same level of report to MS 22 times.Jun 02 15:18
_Hicham_I thought u were smartJun 02 15:19
DaemonFCthen if it still isn't crashed or hanging, you have to close it downJun 02 15:19
DaemonFCto free the memoryJun 02 15:19
oiaohmMemory leaks are not secuity exploits.Jun 02 15:19
oiaohmProblems yes.Jun 02 15:19
oiaohmBut not secuirty.Jun 02 15:19
oiaohmBugs have different ratings DaemonFCJun 02 15:19
_Hicham_Memory leaks are not Firefox problemJun 02 15:19
oiaohmA backdoor is the worst rating.Jun 02 15:19
_Hicham_this is bullshitJun 02 15:19
_Hicham_u have 100 extensions and u say : " why do i have a mem leak?"Jun 02 15:20
_Hicham_u have a mem leak in ur ass moronJun 02 15:20
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oiaohmProblem is to fix the leaks is not simple they are having to redesign firefoxs internals.Jun 02 15:20
oiaohmInto split processes.Jun 02 15:20
_Hicham_they are working on thatJun 02 15:21
_Hicham_for the next major version of GeckoJun 02 15:21
oiaohmSome bugs that are not secuirty are major bastards to fix.Jun 02 15:21
_Hicham_normalJun 02 15:21
_Hicham_it is legacy codeJun 02 15:21
oiaohmLike java script losing track of memory.Jun 02 15:21
oiaohmAnd not knowing to garbage collect it so eating system out of house and home.Jun 02 15:22
oiaohmIts not really a leak as such.  Its a failure to deallocate.Jun 02 15:22
_Hicham_all garbage collectors have problemsJun 02 15:22
_Hicham_garbage collection theory fails at some pointsJun 02 15:23
oiaohmProcess theory is then ment to kick in to fix.Jun 02 15:23
oiaohmFirefox was designed without that bit of theory.Jun 02 15:23
_Hicham_Process theory is greatJun 02 15:24
_Hicham_I agree with u on thatJun 02 15:24
_Hicham_but it will take a long time before redesigning xulrunner to support thatJun 02 15:24
oiaohmProcess theory will also allow more segmented sandboxing.Jun 02 15:25
_Hicham_Mozilla is working on thatJun 02 15:27
oiaohmIf I can find the email I should send to to DaemonFCJun 02 15:27
oiaohmIt was completely funny.  MS answer to a secuirty bug in IE was in 1998  webdeveloper should never code anything like thatJun 02 15:28
oiaohmYer right as if a attacker is going to give a rats if they should or should not.Jun 02 15:28
oiaohmEven funnier they were trying to charge me for crashing one of there servers.Jun 02 15:29
_Hicham_DaemonFC is a troll oiaohmJun 02 15:29
oiaohmI send them a password protected zip with the instruction this would crash systems don't test on anything production.Jun 02 15:30
oiaohmAnd they opened it on a production server and run it then wanted to sue me.Jun 02 15:30
oiaohmComplete laugh.Jun 02 15:30
oiaohmI have to give them they have got a few more brains since then.Jun 02 15:30
_Hicham_funnyJun 02 15:31
_Hicham_why do people still use their servers?Jun 02 15:31
_Hicham_what for?Jun 02 15:31
_Hicham_tell me the reason since a sys adminJun 02 15:31
_Hicham_since u r a sys adminJun 02 15:31
oiaohmConfiguring server should be the answer.Jun 02 15:32
oiaohmAfter it configured everything including backups should be triggerable remotelyJun 02 15:32
oiaohmSorry to say I have found them being used as workstations _Hicham_Jun 02 15:33
oiaohmOr worse people screaming about network performance being intermit and a kid to keep them out way was being allowed to play games on the server.Jun 02 15:33
oiaohmI do network auditing as well _Hicham_Jun 02 15:34
oiaohmYou have a problem your system admin cannot solve employ me I will find it.  Even if it takes putting in security cams.Jun 02 15:34
_Hicham_so u mean that Windows Server is easily configurable?Jun 02 15:35
oiaohmWho said easy.Jun 02 15:35
oiaohmSome things are easy.Jun 02 15:36
oiaohmSomethings are pain in ass.   I have a lot of templates for different OS's that make it fairly simple.Jun 02 15:36
oiaohmWithout the templates it would hurt.Jun 02 15:36
DaemonFCWindows Server has totally different security policiesJun 02 15:37
DaemonFCand gives the administrator more configuration optionsJun 02 15:37
DaemonFCconsumer Windows and Windows Server are pretty much night and dayJun 02 15:37
_Hicham_the GUI is gone is Windows Server 2008Jun 02 15:38
_Hicham_is->inJun 02 15:38
oiaohmNot all versions _Hicham_Jun 02 15:38
DaemonFCyou can use Aero Glass in Server 2008Jun 02 15:38
DaemonFCoh, you mean Server Core?Jun 02 15:38
oiaohmWeb version in 2003 had very reduced GUI too.Jun 02 15:38
DaemonFCThat's an optional versionJun 02 15:38
_Hicham_oiaohm : I am talking about GUI configJun 02 15:38
DaemonFCit doesn't install IE, Windows Media Player, Explorer shellJun 02 15:38
DaemonFCa lot of stuffJun 02 15:39
oiaohmWindows servers can be remote GUI configured.Jun 02 15:39
oiaohmAs well _Hicham_Jun 02 15:39
DaemonFCyou have to do everything through the command promptJun 02 15:39
oiaohmOnce you have enabled it.Jun 02 15:39
MinceRj0h0h0Jun 02 15:39
DaemonFCyeah, you can also set up remote administration on a headless Server Core systemJun 02 15:39
oiaohmLike adding users you can do that anywhere in a windows network.Jun 02 15:39
DaemonFCdoesn't make much sense to install GUI stuff if you don't need a GUIJun 02 15:39
oiaohmJust talking straight to the ads server itself.Jun 02 15:39
oiaohmYou don't really need a gui on the server if the ads and other setting areas will answer.Jun 02 15:40
oiaohmMain problem is lot of services for windows are poorly coded and need gui to run.Jun 02 15:40
DaemonFC70% of the security flaws that affect Server 2008 full install won't affect Server CoreJun 02 15:40
DaemonFCcause the faulty components won't be thereJun 02 15:40
oiaohmI can still remember a person being shocked that I was backing up the complete ADS from a client.Jun 02 15:42
DaemonFCit's not that difficultJun 02 15:42
oiaohmThen processed to inspect the registry of serverJun 02 15:42
oiaohmIts not difficult at all but most people seam to think an admin has to sit at a server to do anything.Jun 02 15:43
DaemonFCmaybe if you're using some totally backwards configurationJun 02 15:43
DaemonFCor some backwards OSJun 02 15:44
DaemonFCremote administration is fairly easy on RHELJun 02 15:44
oiaohmAdmin only has to really go to server in three cases Number 1 to install/upgrade.  Number 2 if network fails/massive config failure.  Number 3 server is powered off.Jun 02 15:44
DaemonFCservers generally don't power offJun 02 15:45
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 15:45
oiaohmPower outage normally caused.Jun 02 15:45
DaemonFCthat's kind of the reason for hot plugging, RAID, and UPS devicesJun 02 15:45
oiaohmI have had a few were power was cut late at night and the UPS run low so server shutdown to saveself.Jun 02 15:46
oiaohmDoes happen should be rare.Jun 02 15:46
DaemonFCI really wouldn't want to have to get stuck with anything other than RHEL if I had to use Linux in such a roleJun 02 15:46
oiaohmRHEL and its releations centos and the one from cern are all equal to operate remotely.Jun 02 15:47
oiaohmDo manage a few of them you really don't notice that much of a difference.Jun 02 15:47
DaemonFCI don't really see a great demand for Ubuntu ServerJun 02 15:48
DaemonFCI've only seen one person using it for a personal web/IRC serverJun 02 15:48
DaemonFCand it appears to be pretty flakyJun 02 15:48
oiaohmIf they want deb debian testing is about the best.Jun 02 15:49
oiaohmIf you want true hell go gentooJun 02 15:49
oiaohmOne person alter a build option you are totally screwed.Jun 02 15:49
trmancowowJun 02 15:50
DaemonFCI never really was too fond of DebianJun 02 15:50
trmancohttp://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-press/2009-06/msg00000.htmlJun 02 15:50
trmancoBN is thereJun 02 15:50
DaemonFCreleases are unpredictable, nothing gets updatedJun 02 15:50
DaemonFCunless you want to use Testing or SidJun 02 15:50
DaemonFCthen have fun with all the bugs that come and goJun 02 15:51
oiaohmReason why I said Testing.Jun 02 15:51
oiaohmfunny enough testing is less buggy than ubuntu DaemonFCJun 02 15:51
DaemonFCwhy is that surprising?Jun 02 15:51
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 15:51
oiaohmEven that Ubuntu takes most of its packages straight from debian testing.Jun 02 15:51
DaemonFCno they take them from SidJun 02 15:52
oiaohmI did not think they were that nuts.Jun 02 15:52
DaemonFCand some are just packaged as deb files and had no basis in the Debian treeJun 02 15:52
oiaohmOk if there are it would explain it.Jun 02 15:52
DaemonFCthat's why Ubuntu's kernels are so awfulJun 02 15:52
oiaohmFedora can be worse than debian testing.Jun 02 15:53
_Hicham_no, Ubuntu debs are not based on debian's onesJun 02 15:53
_Hicham_oiaohm : Fedora receives more testingJun 02 15:53
DaemonFCwell, for kernels they have their own Git, and its not because they actually develop many kernel patchesJun 02 15:53
DaemonFCit's just a staging area so they can cherry pick from kernel.org easierJun 02 15:53
oiaohm_Hicham_: Lot of Ubuntu debs are built purely from debian source packages no alterations.  They are basically copies.Jun 02 15:54
oiaohmOnly thing different is how defective Ubuntu complier is.Jun 02 15:54
_Hicham_oiaohm : I agreeJun 02 15:54
_Hicham_but a lot of packages do notJun 02 15:54
_Hicham_for example, gnome 2.26Jun 02 15:54
_Hicham_it is not present in debian reposJun 02 15:55
oiaohmThat is in git.Jun 02 15:55
oiaohmopps sidJun 02 15:55
oiaohmI common call it gitJun 02 15:55
oiaohmbecause it is.Jun 02 15:55
DaemonFCUbuntu is not Debian, Ubuntu users are not welcome in #debianJun 02 15:56
DaemonFCUbuntu has a lot of problems that they rightly don't want to deal with in #debianJun 02 15:56
DaemonFCbecause they don't affect DebianJun 02 15:56
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 15:56
oiaohmUbuntu users being drop kicks at time don't help either.Jun 02 15:57
DaemonFCthey had a fairly awesome bug in Ubuntu's XChat at one pointJun 02 15:57
DaemonFCin the beta treeJun 02 15:57
DaemonFCit was dumping users into #debianJun 02 15:57
DaemonFCwhere they got a taste of pissed off Debian peopleJun 02 15:57
_Hicham_oiaohm : gnome 2.26 is not even in experimentalJun 02 15:57
_Hicham_so some packages are built apart from debianJun 02 15:59
_Hicham_and not respecting debian packaging policyJun 02 15:59
oiaohmhttp://packages.debian.org/sid/gnome/  << what in the heck do you mean.Jun 02 15:59
oiaohmYou will find 2.26 in sid.Jun 02 16:00
oiaohmAnything highly untrustworthy untested is in there.Jun 02 16:00
_Hicham_just some packagesJun 02 16:00
_Hicham_like gnome-aboutJun 02 16:00
oiaohmAll the packages are there.Jun 02 16:01
oiaohmJust not the meta package to make it simple to install.Jun 02 16:01
oiaohmThat is sid normal.Jun 02 16:01
_Hicham_mostly 2.24Jun 02 16:01
oiaohmThere are no meta packages in sid.Jun 02 16:01
_Hicham_not 2.26Jun 02 16:01
oiaohmYou are aware not all package truely changed between 2.24 and 2.26Jun 02 16:02
oiaohmYep there are a few like evolution-webcal that give it away clearly.Jun 02 16:03
oiaohmevolution is 2.26 and its 2.24Jun 02 16:03
oiaohmThere was not a code change so it was not rebuilt so build not was not wasted.Jun 02 16:03
_Hicham_why this confusion in versioning scheme?Jun 02 16:03
_Hicham_wrongJun 02 16:03
_Hicham_all packages should be rebuiltJun 02 16:04
oiaohmNot in sidJun 02 16:04
_Hicham_well, in sid tooJun 02 16:04
oiaohmsid is not a stable branch.Jun 02 16:04
oiaohmIt is not required.Jun 02 16:04
_Hicham_if they migrate to a new gcc versionJun 02 16:04
oiaohmThey have not.Jun 02 16:04
oiaohmSo there was no need.Jun 02 16:04
_Hicham_all packages should be rebuilt with the same version of gccJun 02 16:04
_Hicham_wrong alsoJun 02 16:05
oiaohmThey have been.Jun 02 16:05
_Hicham_they should support latest packagesJun 02 16:05
_Hicham_that is the role of a distroJun 02 16:05
_Hicham_everything should be up-to-dateJun 02 16:05
_Hicham_that is how linux will progressJun 02 16:06
_Hicham_Desktop users should be pushed to use new software versionsJun 02 16:06
oiaohmWhat do you think other than wasting cpu time would be gained by rebuilding a different version marked package with the same source code that is going to solve to supported libs the same way.Jun 02 16:06
_Hicham_to profit from compiler improvementsJun 02 16:07
oiaohmIt is the same complier.Jun 02 16:07
_Hicham_and see if there is anything wrong with the new versions of the compilerJun 02 16:07
_Hicham_they should use the latest version of gccJun 02 16:07
oiaohmThat would be fine if more than 10 pecent of the packages would build.Jun 02 16:08
oiaohmLets just say there are a lot of bugs projects have to fix.Jun 02 16:08
_Hicham_they should partcipate in fixing themJun 02 16:08
oiaohmWhat they are.Jun 02 16:09
schestowitzhttp://www.fsdaily.com/EndUser/Watch_Video_without_FlashJun 02 16:09
schestowitzWatch the adverts on the left. Jun 02 16:09
schestowitzAll FlashJun 02 16:09
oiaohmBut not at the price of testing other bits _Hicham_Jun 02 16:09
_Hicham_what do u mean oiaohm?Jun 02 16:09
_Hicham_I have seen that schestowitzJun 02 16:09
oiaohmYou might be able to build programs to test there optional state.  Even if they complier fail out due to complier being more picky.Jun 02 16:10
_Hicham_and I am very excited to get rid of flashJun 02 16:10
oiaohmBasically gcc is picking up more bugs than ever before.Jun 02 16:10
oiaohmNot all those releate to function of the code.Jun 02 16:11
_Hicham_everyone is welcome to submit patchesJun 02 16:11
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oiaohmSome times you cannot do perfection _Hicham_Jun 02 16:11
oiaohmSid is not about perfection its about getting the most testing done any way they can.Jun 02 16:12
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oiaohmThis includes not always using the latest compliers to build binaries.  So they can at least build binaries.Jun 02 16:12
_Hicham_building binaries in not a problemJun 02 16:12
_Hicham_building great binaries is a problemJun 02 16:13
_Hicham_building performant binaries is a problemJun 02 16:13
oiaohmgcc stopping because it picking up code errors in the past it would have let slide so you will get no binary.Jun 02 16:13
oiaohmReally does not help testing.Jun 02 16:13
oiaohmHelp sending patches to get upstream fixed.Jun 02 16:13
_Hicham_if upstream is fixed, they we are doing things properlyJun 02 16:14
oiaohmOther bugs still could be there of course.Jun 02 16:14
_Hicham_but at least they are testing all upstream projectsJun 02 16:14
_Hicham_not just someJun 02 16:14
oiaohmReason why you still need the binaries so the testers can test for operational problems.Jun 02 16:14
oiaohmThat complier errors don't show.Jun 02 16:15
oiaohmsid is a huge mother of comprises and it has to be to work.Jun 02 16:15
_Hicham_like openssl high encryption rate back in 2006Jun 02 16:16
_Hicham_oh, we just want to build binariesJun 02 16:16
_Hicham_so fuck compiler warningsJun 02 16:16
oiaohmUbuntu is not outside it rouge operators either.Jun 02 16:16
_Hicham_and let us sign our stuff with 15 bits encryptionJun 02 16:17
oiaohmAnd why did a stack of other distributions pick it up without checking.Jun 02 16:17
schestowitzMichael from Phoronix has just asked me about Ad bard. I think he's interested too.Jun 02 16:17
oiaohmThis is the problem _Hicham_ you can point at that but its a failure to have a double check.Jun 02 16:17
_Hicham_so no testingJun 02 16:18
oiaohmSome of the QA structs in Linux need work.Jun 02 16:18
oiaohmTestcases passed _Hicham_Jun 02 16:18
oiaohmEven that it was only doing 15 bits.Jun 02 16:18
oiaohmYep openssl did not have a test case to detect it.Jun 02 16:18
_Hicham_they must be more openJun 02 16:19
oiaohmThey do now.Jun 02 16:19
_Hicham_and collaborate more with upstream projectsJun 02 16:19
_Hicham_no one is perfectJun 02 16:19
oiaohmAnd people building distributions should not have blind faith on other distributions either.Jun 02 16:19
_Hicham_trueJun 02 16:19
oiaohmSo there is oversite.Jun 02 16:19
_Hicham_that is why I say upstreamJun 02 16:20
_Hicham_upstream is the keyJun 02 16:20
oiaohmOnly part of the key.Jun 02 16:20
_Hicham_we should stick to upstreamJun 02 16:20
oiaohmYou need side to side too.Jun 02 16:20
_Hicham_no, it is the whole keyJun 02 16:20
_Hicham_what do u mean?Jun 02 16:20
oiaohmFedora builds openssl  debian builds openssl.   Maintainers of each look at the other ones work to make sure they did it right.Jun 02 16:21
oiaohmIe side to side.Jun 02 16:21
_Hicham_not reallyJun 02 16:21
_Hicham_the build is the buildJun 02 16:21
_Hicham_packaging rules are differentJun 02 16:21
_Hicham_i do not prefer side to sideJun 02 16:21
_Hicham_i prefer upstreamingJun 02 16:22
oiaohmCommand line and control options sent into the build process are the same no matter if its debian or fedora.Jun 02 16:22
oiaohmWrong ones can stuff packages.Jun 02 16:22
_Hicham_if u want to patch sthg in ur distro, send it upstream for review beforeJun 02 16:22
_Hicham_upstream is more able to tell if it is suitable or notJun 02 16:23
oiaohmpatches should go upstream.Jun 02 16:23
_Hicham_that is what I am sayingJun 02 16:23
oiaohmReviews of build process should go sideways and up stream.Jun 02 16:23
_Hicham_not sidewaysJun 02 16:23
_Hicham_only upstreamJun 02 16:23
oiaohmThere is a problem with just upstream.Jun 02 16:24
_Hicham_what is it ?Jun 02 16:24
oiaohmIts purely from the point that upstream is not building that many packages or dealing with as many versions of compliers.   Distribution maintainers are.  It could be a simple case that a distribution complier is at fault in the option selection.Jun 02 16:25
_Hicham_trueJun 02 16:26
oiaohmIts not what you call a normal head you want to give to code designers.Jun 02 16:26
_Hicham_then upstream should be urged to use latest compilerJun 02 16:26
oiaohmThey have enough trouble dealing with code faults.Jun 02 16:26
oiaohmDistribution maintainers should be able to reduce down the information they need to send up stream by going sideways first.Jun 02 16:27
_Hicham_not if we are using the same build environmentJun 02 16:27
oiaohmLike rulling out complier faults.Jun 02 16:27
oiaohmIe if 10 distributions can build something with the same switchs as you.Jun 02 16:28
_Hicham_if upstream projects are using the latest compiler version, things can be made easyJun 02 16:28
oiaohmAnd you cannot what is broken.Jun 02 16:28
oiaohmThe complier.Jun 02 16:28
oiaohmSomeone basically build the complier wrong or applied a wrong patch.Jun 02 16:28
oiaohmNo need really to bother upstream with that _Hicham_Jun 02 16:29
_Hicham_no, they shouldJun 02 16:29
oiaohmNot if a case they added a proto patch to the complier.Jun 02 16:29
_Hicham_we should use latest vanilla compiler buildJun 02 16:29
_Hicham_it is their problemJun 02 16:29
_Hicham_the distro problemJun 02 16:29
oiaohmThings like fedora are not using a vanilla complier.Jun 02 16:29
_Hicham_not upstream problemJun 02 16:30
oiaohmReason why we need filtering to protect upstream from problems that are not theres.Jun 02 16:30
_Hicham_things like Fedora are submitting patches regularly to gccJun 02 16:30
_Hicham_and help detecting problems earlierJun 02 16:30
oiaohmyes and also run patch before they are approved for include in gcc.Jun 02 16:30
_Hicham_they are co-maintainers in gccJun 02 16:31
oiaohmYou have to allow for distributions like that existing _Hicham_Jun 02 16:31
_Hicham_so they need testingJun 02 16:31
oiaohmside to side it kinda required to keep poor upstream maintainers sane.Jun 02 16:31
_Hicham_before pushing it upstreamJun 02 16:31
oiaohmI guess you can see the importance of the side to side first now _Hicham_Jun 02 16:32
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_Hicham_I agree with uJun 02 16:32
_Hicham_but upstream is vitalJun 02 16:32
oiaohmSame.Jun 02 16:32
oiaohmgood QA need both upstream and side to side.Jun 02 16:32
schestowitz"Websense users were temporarily blocked from enjoying the launch of Microsoft's Bing search engine on Monday." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/02/websense_lifts_bing_block/ must be their pr0nJun 02 16:33
oiaohmResonable can cope with just upstream.Jun 02 16:33
DaemonFCWbNonSense?Jun 02 16:34
DaemonFC*WebNonSense?Jun 02 16:34
schestowitzThe BSA is attacking companies that use non-Free software, go go BSA! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/02/bsa_audit/ The BSA said that it is already investigating several companies in the London area for using unlicensed software. “As a result, these businesses face the prospect of legal proceedings and the BSA is urging other businesses to avoid being subject to the same fate,” it said in a statement. Jun 02 16:34
oiaohmbing.com was a sex site in 1995 DaemonFCJun 02 16:34
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DaemonFCschestowitz: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=websenseJun 02 16:35
DaemonFCyou might enjoy thatJun 02 16:35
DaemonFCI didJun 02 16:35
DaemonFChttp://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=websense_bannedJun 02 16:35
schestowitzoiaohm: LOLJun 02 16:35
schestowitzI didn't know thatJun 02 16:35
DaemonFC"If you feel that your organization has been characterized unfairly, arbitrarily, and without any formal consensus, feel free to sit helplessly with your thumb up your ass, and enjoy discrimination under the same heavy-handed, pious, one-size-fits-all policy that you've been inflicting upon other websites for years now."Jun 02 16:35
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 16:35
DaemonFC"In the mean time, don't worry about the millions of hardcore bukkake, gang-bang, and rape sites your filters miss, satire sites should be your top priority. Irresponsible parents who can't be bothered with supervising their children will thank you for it."Jun 02 16:36
schestowitz"I need someone to volunteer with CAI, to test if they really hire on volunteers, how about at your end."  http://www.computeraid.org/volunteerinworkshop.htmJun 02 16:37
schestowitzDoes anyone want to sign up as a pseudo-volunteer to see if they fake it?Jun 02 16:37
schestowitzoiaohm: fund with numbers: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25403/1151/ (Aussies and Kiwis generated 14 billion gigabytes of data in 2008)Jun 02 16:40
_Hicham_DaemonFC support child porn sitesJun 02 16:40
schestowitzWebsense is not anti pedoJun 02 16:40
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jun 02 16:40
schestowitzWebsense is blocker for businessesJun 02 16:41
schestowitzWebsense is used to gag sites tooJun 02 16:41
schestowitzLike GroklawJun 02 16:41
schestowitzAnd my own siteJun 02 16:41
schestowitzThey put me on it on the face of itJun 02 16:41
EruaranhelloJun 02 16:41
_Hicham_so u r more dangerous than child molesters schestowitz?Jun 02 16:41
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/28/gigaom-and-stereotypes/Jun 02 16:42
_Hicham_Hi EruaranJun 02 16:42
Eruaranhi _Hicham_Jun 02 16:42
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, they flagged me as "blog/social site"Jun 02 16:42
schestowitzThen put on filtersJun 02 16:42
schestowitzSo some people can't gain accessJun 02 16:42
schestowitzOld storyJun 02 16:42
schestowitzMaybe a coincidenceJun 02 16:42
DaemonFC_Hicham_: schestowitz is more dangerous than child rapists, Osama Bin Laden, and your momJun 02 16:43
DaemonFCelse he wouldn't have been blocked by WebsenseJun 02 16:43
DaemonFC:PJun 02 16:43
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.search-engines/browse_thread/thread/e913cdab8ad706af/f83ad099cef62c58?hl=en&ie=UTF-8Jun 02 16:43
_Hicham_DaemonFC : do u have a mom?Jun 02 16:44
_Hicham_or u been born in the street?Jun 02 16:45
schestowitz_Hicham_: get downloadin'! http://gburt.blogspot.com/2009/06/banshee-150-released.html (Gabriel Burt: Banshee 1.5.0 released!)Jun 02 16:45
schestowitz_Hicham_: enough teasing and trolling like DaemonFC . Like for like?Jun 02 16:45
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schestowitz_Hicham_: help contributing patches to Bansh*Jun 02 16:46
_Hicham_schestowitz : I am downloading it right nowJun 02 16:46
_Hicham_hahahaJun 02 16:46
_Hicham_that is what I am gonna doJun 02 16:46
schestowitzNovell copyrightsJun 02 16:46
_Hicham_I use MonoDevelop as my primary IDEJun 02 16:46
schestowitzWatch this: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=569Jun 02 16:46
schestowitzNoDevcelop!!Jun 02 16:46
schestowitzLisa Hoover  keeps writing about non-Free software in a FOSS blog. I don't get it. http://ostatic.com/blog/habari-project-offers-a-fresh-approach-to-blogging-softwareJun 02 16:49
_Hicham_banshee 1.5 is not available in Fedora reposJun 02 16:50
schestowitz:-( *sulk*Jun 02 16:50
schestowitzRequired dependencies: Novell, Microsoft/ECMA docs, moreJun 02 16:50
_Hicham_failed to find package Novell : no such file or directoryJun 02 16:52
schestowitzNope.Jun 02 16:52
schestowitzFiles removesJun 02 16:52
schestowitzFiles removedJun 02 16:52
_Hicham_install package schestowitz instead?Jun 02 16:52
schestowitzTry /etc/microsoft/ insteadJun 02 16:52
schestowitzchown microsoft /home/novell/Jun 02 16:52
schestowitzchmod 777 /home/novell/Jun 02 16:53
schestowitzsudo /home/novell/destroy-linux.shJun 02 16:53
EruaranI have a sudden urge to purgeJun 02 16:53
schestowitzBTW, blander is out..Jun 02 16:54
schestowitzHehe.Jun 02 16:54
schestowitzBlender the blunderJun 02 16:54
schestowitzhttp://ostatic.com/blog/blenders-new-version-has-many-3d-modeling-improvementsJun 02 16:54
_Hicham_error : the package binutils have been patched to prevent Novell from doing thatJun 02 16:54
schestowitzEruaran: Beranger has a listJun 02 16:54
Eruaranof things to purge ?Jun 02 16:54
schestowitzSimple mental exercise: Identify the OS! < http://www.beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/02/20/10/22/59-simple-mental-exercise-identify- >Jun 02 16:55
schestowitzReally simple.Jun 02 16:55
schestowitzThe following list is a slightly modified output from a selective (with grep) directory listing. Your task is to identify the operating system:Jun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\f-spot.exeJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\FlickrNet.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\gnome-keyring-sharp.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\google-sharp.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\libgphoto2-sharp.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\NDesk.Glitz.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\SemWeb.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzf-spot\SmugMugNet.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitz[...]Jun 02 16:55
schestowitzmono\2.0\System.Security.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzmono\2.0\System.ServiceProcess.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzmono\2.0\System.Transactions.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzmono\2.0\System.Web.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzmono\2.0\System.Web.Services.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzmono\2.0\System.Xml.dllJun 02 16:55
schestowitzMore investments ($6 million) in a GNU/Linux distro: http://ostatic.com/blog/hadoop-centric-cloudera-gets-6-million-in-series-b-fundingJun 02 16:56
schestowitzWoohooJun 02 16:57
schestowitzhttps://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-June/msg00003.htmlJun 02 16:57
EruaranI have figured out what Linux needs to suddenly achive critical mass and decimate Microsoft on the desktopJun 02 16:57
schestowitzGnote in F12Jun 02 16:57
schestowitzI have now changed the default panel configuration in F12 to includeJun 02 16:57
schestowitzgnote instead of tomboy, and changed comps to make gnote default andJun 02 16:57
schestowitztomboy optional.Jun 02 16:57
schestowitzThis won't replace tomboy in existing installations, but new Jun 02 16:57
schestowitzinstallations will get gnote instead of tomboy.Jun 02 16:57
schestowitzThis also means that gnote should show up on the live cd (where weJun 02 16:57
schestowitzexcluded tomboy previously, due to no space for mono).Jun 02 16:57
schestowitzSome things are still needed for a 100% smooth experience:Jun 02 16:57
schestowitz- pick up existing tomboy notes (less urgent now, since we do notJun 02 16:57
schestowitzreplace tomboy...)Jun 02 16:57
schestowitz- don't show the 'start here' note initiallyJun 02 16:57
schestowitzMatthiasJun 02 16:57
schestowitzTomboy's Sandy will go MADJun 02 16:57
schestowitzhttps://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes#GNOME_2.28Jun 02 16:58
schestowitz"cp .tomboy .gnoteJun 02 16:58
schestowitz"Jun 02 16:58
schestowitzHaha!Jun 02 16:58
schestowitzRed Hat/Fedora is essentially tossing out Mono.Jun 02 16:58
EruaranwinJun 02 16:58
EruarananywayJun 02 17:00
EruaranI have the answer to desktop dominanceJun 02 17:00
EruaranIts a sure fire winJun 02 17:00
*Eruaran plays a drumrollJun 02 17:01
EruaranIts this:Jun 02 17:01
EruaranA sexy female voice with a british accentJun 02 17:01
Eruaran:DJun 02 17:01
EruaranI want to sit down at my PC and say, "talk to me babeh"Jun 02 17:02
Eruaran"Hello, <insert username here>, what would you like me to do for you ?"Jun 02 17:02
schestowitzI told you ASUS was not ditching Linux, just pimping Microsoft for money. Back to Linux. http://www.h-online.com/open/Eee-PC-running-Android-seen-at-Computex--/news/113422 Eee PC running Android seen at ComputexJun 02 17:02
_Hicham_Eruaran : that would be schestowitz' girlfriendJun 02 17:02
EruaranLOLJun 02 17:02
Eruaran"Hello schestowitz, would you like to start a new Wave ?"Jun 02 17:03
schestowitz_Hicham_: not a nice breakup with my last g/fJun 02 17:03
schestowitzWave gets trolled by the Microsoft blogsJun 02 17:04
_Hicham_schestowitz : I am really sorry if I did hurt uJun 02 17:04
schestowitzIt means it's REALLY goodJun 02 17:04
schestowitzOtherwise they ignore the stuffJun 02 17:04
EruaranIts 2009 and my computer still doesn't talk to me with a sexy British femaile voiceJun 02 17:04
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, not at all..Jun 02 17:04
EruaranThis is unforgivableJun 02 17:04
schestowitzMicrosoft tried thatJun 02 17:04
schestowitzAround Vista releaseJun 02 17:04
schestowitzSome sexy woman as a UIJun 02 17:04
schestowitzI kid you not Jun 02 17:04
schestowitzThe female BobJun 02 17:05
schestowitzAs videJun 02 17:05
schestowitzAs videoJun 02 17:05
schestowitzTurns out she had a shady pastJun 02 17:05
schestowitzNudisty and allJun 02 17:05
schestowitzPeople started GooglingJun 02 17:05
schestowitzNot bingingJun 02 17:05
EruaranYes but Microsoft can't do sexy british womanly voiceJun 02 17:05
schestowitzThey were banging herJun 02 17:05
schestowitzoopsJun 02 17:05
schestowitzThey were binging herJun 02 17:05
EruaranFemale Bob ?Jun 02 17:05
EruaranBobett ?Jun 02 17:05
schestowitzMaybeJun 02 17:06
schestowitzI can't recall Jun 02 17:06
schestowitzthey called the whole thing offJun 02 17:06
EruaranBobbie ?Jun 02 17:06
schestowitzRoberta maybeJun 02 17:06
schestowitzOEMs have found a way to receive Microsoft bribes: http://www.h-online.com/open/Eee-PC-running-Android-seen-at-Computex--/news/113422Jun 02 17:07
schestowitzThis could kill MicrosoftJun 02 17:07
schestowitzIt can't just bribe OEMs to woo them away from Linux time after timeJun 02 17:07
schestowitzMicrosoft needs to offer VALUEJun 02 17:07
schestowitzAnd change its biz modelJun 02 17:07
schestowitzEruaran: let me find it..Jun 02 17:07
schestowitzI can't find itJun 02 17:09
Eruaran:PJun 02 17:10
DaemonFCI think that's where Live comes inJun 02 17:11
DaemonFCor in theoryJun 02 17:11
schestowitz"The biggest help for the true netbooks however will come from ARM and Linux." http://www.tech-no-media.com/2009/06/is-windows-killing-netbook.htmlJun 02 17:12
schestowitzWhere from?Jun 02 17:12
schestowitzIt was around the same timeJun 02 17:12
schestowitzThe Live brandingJun 02 17:12
schestowitzSome sexy woman they showedJun 02 17:12
schestowitzSomething to do with UIJun 02 17:12
schestowitzAround Vista releaseJun 02 17:12
schestowitzI tried googling it, but no successJun 02 17:12
DaemonFCyeah, but things like Windows Live Messenger are starting to get betterJun 02 17:12
schestowitzIt made headline for no more than a weekJun 02 17:12
schestowitzLive is dyingJun 02 17:12
DaemonFCI can see it cannabalizing what's left of Yahoo and AOLJun 02 17:12
DaemonFCat any rateJun 02 17:13
schestowitzMany products dieJun 02 17:13
schestowitzCanceled, and people firedJun 02 17:13
_Hicham_fuck Windows Live MessengerJun 02 17:13
schestowitzThey bet the form on the bongJun 02 17:13
schestowitzLike hard drugs by pawning one's houseJun 02 17:13
DaemonFCPidgin is basic and pretty awfulJun 02 17:13
DaemonFCthey've been releasing new versions for years without actually doing anything but keeping up with text IM protocol changesJun 02 17:14
schestowitzBullJun 02 17:14
schestowitzIt does what it doesJun 02 17:14
schestowitzAnd it does many protocols wellJun 02 17:14
DaemonFCand it does what GAIM did in 1998Jun 02 17:14
schestowitzIf you want video, there's an application for it tooJun 02 17:14
_Hicham_DaemonFC is a big fuckerJun 02 17:14
DaemonFCexcept it has spell check and uses GTK 2Jun 02 17:14
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 17:14
schestowitzCross platform, unlike MS bloatwareJun 02 17:14
_Hicham_he doesn't understand a bitJun 02 17:14
_Hicham_dumb as alwaysJun 02 17:14
_Hicham_I won't even bother explaining things to himJun 02 17:15
schestowitzDaemonFC works for Edelman directly now:-)Jun 02 17:15
_Hicham_he is a plain trollJun 02 17:15
_Hicham_with nothing to doJun 02 17:15
trmancoGnote in F12: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-desktop-list/2009-June/msg00003.htmlJun 02 17:15
schestowitz'IRC expert'Jun 02 17:15
DaemonFCPidgin releases versions to play catch up with protocol revisionsJun 02 17:15
schestowitztrmanco: yes, seen itJun 02 17:15
schestowitzThere's moreJun 02 17:15
DaemonFCthat's about all I've noticed in several yearsJun 02 17:15
trmancoyeah, but that one is from today :-PJun 02 17:15
DaemonFCafter it breaks for like a weekJun 02 17:15
_Hicham_u didn't notice anything babeJun 02 17:15
_Hicham_and u will never noticeJun 02 17:16
DaemonFCand you can't contact anyoneJun 02 17:16
_Hicham_greatJun 02 17:16
_Hicham_I u can't contact usJun 02 17:16
_Hicham_if u can't contact usJun 02 17:16
DaemonFCwell, IRC typically doesn't change muchJun 02 17:16
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 17:16
_Hicham_everyone will be fineJun 02 17:16
DaemonFCwell, Pidgin is ok unless you want to do a video call or something from this centuryJun 02 17:17
schestowitztrmanco's benchmarks of gnote became de factoJun 02 17:17
schestowitzCited in a few places now as proofJun 02 17:17
trmancoheh :)Jun 02 17:17
trmancoit has more addins, but the mem consumption is the sameJun 02 17:17
schestowitzDaemonFC: use video chat appsJun 02 17:18
trmancoI'm talking about 0.4.0Jun 02 17:18
EruaranI prefer Kopete... though I hardly use IM'sJun 02 17:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: Firefox is crap tooJun 02 17:18
schestowitzIt doesn't make me coffeeeJun 02 17:18
DaemonFCI just ended up moving over my Yahoo contacts to WLMJun 02 17:18
DaemonFCif they want to get off that sinking ship, they canJun 02 17:18
DaemonFCif they don't, I can still talk to them til Yahell goes bankruptJun 02 17:18
schestowitzMobile Development and Multiplicity Madness < http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Mobile-Development-and-Multiplicity-Madness-67201.html?wlc=1243959950 >  O'Grady chatJun 02 17:19
DaemonFCJerry Yang is a moron and Steve Ballmer destroyed them without losing a pennyJun 02 17:19
schestowitzHe destoryed MS tooJun 02 17:19
schestowitzUnless he just wanted their staffJun 02 17:19
EruaranBallmer is a buffoonJun 02 17:20
schestowitzOr to steal their shareJun 02 17:20
DaemonFCBallmer offers them more than the company is worth, idiot CEO turns them down, shareholder revolt, company goes brokeJun 02 17:20
schestowitzMS got disractedJun 02 17:20
DaemonFCMicrosoft beats them either wayJun 02 17:20
EruaranroflJun 02 17:20
schestowitzMicrosoft suffered from itJun 02 17:20
_Hicham_Google is gonna eat all of themJun 02 17:20
schestowitzDon't fool yorselfJun 02 17:20
schestowitz_Hicham_: yesJun 02 17:21
schestowitzbeen said at the time tooJun 02 17:21
schestowitzGoogle gained while they bickered over nothingJun 02 17:21
DaemonFCI used to have some Yahell in my 401(k)Jun 02 17:21
schestowitzHeheJun 02 17:21
schestowitzGood luck w/ thatJun 02 17:21
DaemonFCI got rid of it whien I saw a few things happening back in 2005Jun 02 17:21
_Hicham_Basically Microsoft can't do anything with GoogleJun 02 17:21
schestowitzIt's silly those401(k) scamsJun 02 17:21
schestowitzThey assume companies will live for longJun 02 17:21
schestowitzJust a bunch of debt-saddled franchisesJun 02 17:22
schestowitzPeople live in the futureJun 02 17:22
schestowitzThe future of paying debtJun 02 17:22
schestowitzThe never-reached pensionsJun 02 17:22
DaemonFCGoogle needs competitionJun 02 17:22
DaemonFCany company doesJun 02 17:22
DaemonFCwhenever it stagnates, so do their productsJun 02 17:22
schestowitzSome are just 'euthanised' with cigarettesJun 02 17:22
EruaranGoogle does not appear to be stagnatingJun 02 17:23
schestowitzGoogle need compaetitionbJun 02 17:23
DaemonFCcompanies hate competition because that means they need to spend money making their own offering betterJun 02 17:23
schestowitzMicrosoft uses crime to ruin competitionJun 02 17:23
DaemonFCinstead of shelling out management bonusesJun 02 17:23
DaemonFCand splitting the stockJun 02 17:23
_Hicham_Linux must go the same way MS didJun 02 17:23
schestowitzThe last 'competition' we need is from thugs like SIlverberg and the gagJun 02 17:23
schestowitz*gangJun 02 17:23
DaemonFCwell, I think Yahoo is going to go underJun 02 17:23
DaemonFCmost lesser known search engines are just a front for GoogleJun 02 17:24
DaemonFCor totally suckJun 02 17:24
_Hicham_Novell is still a big Linux contributorJun 02 17:25
DaemonFCtheir stock has been swinging back and forth biolentlyJun 02 17:25
DaemonFCbut it hasn't recovered since they rejected the Microsoft offerJun 02 17:25
DaemonFCit's still less than half what it wasJun 02 17:25
DaemonFCand a third of what Ballmer offeredJun 02 17:25
DaemonFC*violentlyJun 02 17:25
schestowitzWhoa!!!!!!!1 Watch those nasty ads.. http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/news/117_new_effects_for_gimp_2_6Jun 02 17:26
schestowitzLizards and Ballmer's partnersJun 02 17:26
DaemonFCnow the smart business move would have been at least take the Ballmer offer than let the company bleed red ink and all your investors take a bathJun 02 17:26
schestowitzWhat??Jun 02 17:26
schestowitzYou think MS will buy Yahoo?Jun 02 17:27
schestowitzThey lost their valuationJun 02 17:27
DaemonFCI would have sold it when Ballmer offeredJun 02 17:27
schestowitzFeb 2008(bid) MS was worth like 100billiob moreJun 02 17:27
schestowitzOn paper of courseJun 02 17:27
schestowitzNow Microsoft it TAKING DEBTJun 02 17:27
DaemonFCYahoo basically committed suicideJun 02 17:27
_Hicham_DaemonFC will sell anythingJun 02 17:27
DaemonFCrather than just taking the money and call it a dayJun 02 17:27
schestowitzYou think they just go out and buy companies with similar products?Jun 02 17:27
_Hicham_including his ass, for nothingJun 02 17:27
DaemonFCthe Ballmer offer was a bluffJun 02 17:29
DaemonFCby making the offer, he was either going to buy YahooJun 02 17:29
DaemonFCor destroy them in panic selloffsJun 02 17:29
DaemonFCwhen the investors saw Yahoo's refusalJun 02 17:29
schestowitzWatch what Google is doing for us: http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-May/019994.htmlJun 02 17:29
DaemonFCthe latter happened and he ended up bumping them off without losing a dimeJun 02 17:30
schestowitzThe 'new' US government is in the pocket of the govt (again): http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/high-court-nominee-adopts-riaa-stance/Jun 02 17:31
DaemonFCit's probably the most intelligent thing Ballmer has ever doneJun 02 17:31
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DaemonFChe tends to be a loose cannon most of the timeJun 02 17:31
mib_dxs9g1fuck fuck fuck microsoft :DJun 02 17:31
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EruaranConstructive.Jun 02 17:32
schestowitzAgents provocateurJun 02 17:32
schestowitz\0/Jun 02 17:33
EruaranI'm Secret Squirrel.Jun 02 17:34
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schestowitzhere come the microchips for Linux: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3833182008.html?kc=rssJun 02 17:36
schestowitzLinuxDevices has a new ad networkJun 02 17:37
schestowitzZiff DavisJun 02 17:37
DaemonFCschestowitz: You could probably buy SCO for about $5 at this point in time :PJun 02 17:37
schestowitzGood luck with the lawsuits you buyJun 02 17:38
DaemonFCthey blew the last of their money on hookers and cocaine in Las Vegas no doubtJun 02 17:38
DaemonFC9 cents a shareJun 02 17:39
schestowitzMcbride will go back home to herd cowsJun 02 17:39
DaemonFCnot badJun 02 17:39
DaemonFCI could have 11 shares of SCO for the price of a 44 ounce fountain popJun 02 17:39
DaemonFC70 shares for the price of an extra value meal at McDonaldsJun 02 17:40
DaemonFC3889 shares for the price of Vista UltimateJun 02 17:40
DaemonFClmaoJun 02 17:40
schestowitzThis article responds to selective FUD from Apple/MSFT shareholder (by disclosure): http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/blog-entry/the-myth-freeloading-userJun 02 17:41
_Hicham_McDaemonFC value is 1 cent a shareJun 02 17:41
trmancohttp://uk.techcrunch.com/2009/06/02/china-shuts-down-twitter-and-bing-in-lead-up-to-tiananmen-anniversary/Jun 02 17:41
schestowitz_Hicham_: quite high for a cowboyJun 02 17:42
DaemonFCfuck ChinaJun 02 17:42
_Hicham_he is not even a comboyJun 02 17:42
_Hicham_his a donkeyboyJun 02 17:42
_Hicham_yes, China is fucking all of the USJun 02 17:43
trmancoWindows35205864.5 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoLinux15425128.2 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoUnknown317305.8 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoMacintosh69771.2 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoSymbian OS2680 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoBSD1810 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoSun Solaris610 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoUnknown Unix system470 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoOS/230 %Jun 02 17:45
trmancoBeOS30 %Jun 02 17:46
trmanco Others30 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoFirefoxNo28575852.3 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoMS Internet ExplorerNo18042033 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoUnknown?281945.1 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoGoogle ChromeNo166813 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoOperaNo105181.9 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoMozillaNo81861.5 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoNetscapeNo64731.1 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoSafariNo59331 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoKonquerorNo16340.2 %Jun 02 17:46
trmancoEpiphanyJun 02 17:46
trmancosome statsJun 02 17:46
trmancolinux and firefox hits increased since aprilJun 02 17:47
schestowitzyeah, they grow..Jun 02 17:47
schestowitzDisable Delayed Shutdown Notification In Ubuntu 9.04 < http://www.watchingthenet.com/disable-delayed-shutdown-notification-in-ubuntu-9-04.html > Windows-esque ddialoguesJun 02 17:47
schestowitzHow did OS/2 handle this?Jun 02 17:48
schestowitzHere's the troll who was here earlier: http://linux.com/images/avatar/thumb_da24c4944ac7e2a70660b507.jpgJun 02 17:49
trmanco?Jun 02 17:49
trmancowhat time?Jun 02 17:49
schestowitzAbout 9Jun 02 17:54
schestowitzhttp://blog.nixternal.com/2009.06.01/my-thoughts-about-apt-url/ ( My thoughts about Apt URL )Jun 02 17:54
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schestowitzUbuntu: Apt-Url and the White-List < http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/ubuntu-apt-url-and-the-white-list/ >Jun 02 17:55
trmancoI wasn't hereJun 02 17:56
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_Hicham_I don't know why people want to have a windowish experience on LinuxJun 02 18:01
schestowitzWhat...? I'm an Ubuntu. < http://www.sinisterblog.com/2009/05/im-ubuntu.html >Jun 02 18:04
schestowitz"Ubuntu is an example of how capitalism can be beaten by people power."Jun 02 18:04
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_Hicham_Ubuntu is an example of how we can fuck upstream projects to make moneyJun 02 18:07
_Hicham_"Il y a beaucoup de bouches qui parlent et fort peu de têtes qui pensent."Jun 02 18:09
_Hicham_did u see that also?Jun 02 18:09
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_Hicham_schestowitz sees what he wantsJun 02 18:10
schestowitzYuck. Big Novell adverts here too: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9133693Jun 02 18:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: just distracted, sorrryJun 02 18:15
schestowitzAnd I'm frying hereJun 02 18:15
_Hicham_is it hot in the uk?Jun 02 18:16
schestowitzThe DRM dilemma i KDE. Users can say f* DRM and disable it: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/okular-and-drm.htmlJun 02 18:18
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, veryJun 02 18:18
schestowitzNot like in Morocco thoughJun 02 18:18
_Hicham_it is cool where i amJun 02 18:18
_Hicham_with a great breeze coming from the windowJun 02 18:19
_Hicham_not WindowsJun 02 18:19
_Hicham_officially it is 22°CJun 02 18:22
DaemonFChttp://skinwalker.wordpress.com/2009/05/22/stop-the-windows-bashing/Jun 02 18:26
DaemonFChehJun 02 18:26
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neighborleevery odd 'attitude'..works both ways :)Jun 02 18:35
schestowitzHhee.Jun 02 18:35
schestowitz<maligor> c++ port of tomboy huhJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<maligor> mether, I wonder why they didn't use valaJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<DGMurdockIII> what would be a good all in one media player for netbook running linux a eeepc 900 runing eeebuntuJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<mether> maligor: vala - the author is more familiar with C++ being a Abiword developerJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<maligor> mplayer's popularJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<mether> maligor: you can ask him directly if you need more infoJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<maligor> vala's much nicer to write than gtkmm, hehJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<mether> maligor: depends on what you are more familiar withJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<maligor> I doubt too many people are familiar with valaJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<maligor> being a completely new languageJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<mether> well if you know C# vala is not hard to pick upJun 02 18:35
schestowitz<mether> its very similarJun 02 18:35
schestowitzneighborlee: Jun 02 18:35
schestowitzSee the following:Jun 02 18:35
schestowitzhttp://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/06/02/redhatfedora-drops-mono/Jun 02 18:35
neighborleeif I read something..doesn't mean it 'bothers' me..either I adopt or..or like mono I do not adopt it..this guys sounds like ..whineyJun 02 18:35
neighborleeWHAT!!Jun 02 18:36
*neighborlee scurries to urlJun 02 18:36
neighborleeif this is a joke..your dead LOLJun 02 18:36
DaemonFCneighborlee is destroying the non-democracy by voicing his opinion and mus be killed in compliance with the Ubuntu Code of ConductJun 02 18:38
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 18:38
neighborleeROFLJun 02 18:38
taconeschestowitz: just saw that.Jun 02 18:38
DaemonFChe shall be sacrificed to the God of Shit BrownJun 02 18:38
taconei think mono should go in multiverse or restricted repositoryJun 02 18:38
DaemonFCdefinitely restricted, but it wouldn't help you anyJun 02 18:39
DaemonFCas the restricted metapackage would bring it in even if all you wanted was an  MP3 decoderJun 02 18:39
DaemonFC:PJun 02 18:39
neighborleehmmmm ;)Jun 02 18:40
neighborleemono bye bye ;0---Jun 02 18:40
_Hicham_tacone : better send it to a PPAJun 02 18:40
neighborleehow SWEET it is...Jun 02 18:40
DaemonFCkind of like how you end up with two Java VMs the second you get the restricted extrasJun 02 18:40
DaemonFCIcedTea and the bullshit Sun Java VMJun 02 18:40
DaemonFCwhich can't even function inside FirefoxJun 02 18:40
DaemonFCunless you use 32-bit x86Jun 02 18:40
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 18:40
taconeno, PPA is not necessary.Jun 02 18:41
schestowitzTomTom may be the catalystJun 02 18:41
taconemedibuntu.Jun 02 18:41
schestowitzFedora is VERY careful with patent crapJun 02 18:41
DaemonFCPPAs are basically just a copoutJun 02 18:41
taconeuhm. yes, medibuntu or restricted.Jun 02 18:41
schestowitzUnlike Debian evenJun 02 18:41
schestowitzDebian just doesn't careJun 02 18:41
DaemonFCso they can say "Someone can add that"Jun 02 18:41
schestowitzUbuntu... well, don't get me starts... :-)Jun 02 18:41
taconeor multiverseJun 02 18:41
schestowitz*startedJun 02 18:41
DaemonFCthen if they don't like what you have, they can jsut delete itJun 02 18:41
taconeschestowitz: the ubuntu forums post was a little bit too far.Jun 02 18:41
DaemonFCthe moderaters there are smarmy condescending jerksJun 02 18:42
taconenot really diplomatic :)Jun 02 18:42
DaemonFCthey basically anger you then when you get pissed off at them they use it to "justify" kick banning youJun 02 18:42
_Hicham_I think MS pays Canonical to promote MonoJun 02 18:42
DaemonFCI think Microsoft pays Canonical to release garbageJun 02 18:42
taconei had a recent issue with a moderator as wellJun 02 18:42
DaemonFCperiodJun 02 18:43
DaemonFCit's so much more subtle that wayJun 02 18:43
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taconehe corrected me on a thing. he missed i was saying the exact same thing as himJun 02 18:43
neighborleeschestowitz, what about fspot though...Jun 02 18:43
_Hicham_fuck f-spotJun 02 18:43
neighborleeschestowitz, hm I see rahul asked this as well...oh well regardless..gnotes makes ONE LESS mono infringement ;0--Jun 02 18:44
neighborleewoot wootJun 02 18:44
taconef-spot is overrated. but i don't think there are many good free replacements as well.Jun 02 18:44
DaemonFCUbuntu basically just said it all when they were conspiring with LinspireJun 02 18:44
neighborleemaybe this will send a signal..to the isle of man ;0---Jun 02 18:44
neighborleetacone, gthumb is fineJun 02 18:45
neighborleetacone, and could be easily enhanced in relatively short order im sure..if the  incentive was there ;)Jun 02 18:45
DaemonFCthey took a piss all over free software then the deal fell apart just cause Michael Robertson embezzled the Linspire money and sold it illegallyJun 02 18:45
neighborleeand there are other optionsJun 02 18:45
DaemonFCto XandrosJun 02 18:45
taconethe truth is scripting rocksJun 02 18:45
taconeit's slow but allows to easily build complex applicationsJun 02 18:45
schestowitzbrbJun 02 18:45
_Hicham_tacone : where did u learn that?Jun 02 18:46
DaemonFCschestowitz: You came about an inch from getting that stupid Click 'n Run bullshitJun 02 18:46
DaemonFCin UbuntuJun 02 18:46
_Hicham_at php factory?Jun 02 18:46
taconei'm a php dev myself, but that's not the point.Jun 02 18:47
tessierschestowitz: I don't see any search engine IP's being blocked. I'm pretty sure we aren't turning away search engines.Jun 02 18:47
tessierschestowitz: They also tend to hit the site very slowly. If they get blocked all back off and try again. They are pretty smart that way.Jun 02 18:48
taconescripting has advantages, not just disadvantagesJun 02 18:48
tessierThey never hit us more than once every two seconds which is what the old filter rules required.Jun 02 18:48
_Hicham_tacone : compilable scripting languagesJun 02 18:48
schestowitztessier: excellent,. thanks!Jun 02 18:49
tacone_Hicham_: i'm looking forward google speed python projectJun 02 18:49
tessierschestowitz: Might want to turn on referrer and user agent logging. Then you will be able to see the constant hits from the googlebot.Jun 02 18:49
schestowitzI haven't received any claim of blocking or error since you had changed the settingsJun 02 18:49
taconeit won't be a real compilation, and probably still have a memory overheadJun 02 18:49
schestowitztessier: yes, I noticed thatJun 02 18:49
schestowitzThe log type is reducedJun 02 18:49
DaemonFCheh, there was someone who's Geocities page I took down onceJun 02 18:49
taconebut will make python apps rockJun 02 18:49
schestowitzHow is it changed?Jun 02 18:49
_Hicham_tacone : me too I m very interested in thatJun 02 18:49
schestowitzI can look up the manualsJun 02 18:50
_Hicham_python is a pillar in Linux distrosJun 02 18:50
DaemonFCI made a perl script to overrun their hourly bandwidth allotmentJun 02 18:50
DaemonFCso they broke down and paid for moreJun 02 18:50
tacone_Hicham_: scripting languages makes for clearer code and lower entry barrierJun 02 18:50
DaemonFCand so I dialed it up and took it down againJun 02 18:50
taconethe entry barrier is very important in foss, as getting contribs is much easierJun 02 18:50
neighborleeschestowitz, though fedora upgrade process wont bring in gnotes...as ususal with prior release..unless thats in processs of changing too can't tellJun 02 18:51
_Hicham_tacone : Python is greatJun 02 18:51
tessierIt's just got standard "common" logging right now.Jun 02 18:51
tessierIt is changed in the  /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf fileJun 02 18:51
schestowitzThanks. I'll change itJun 02 18:51
tessierI just changed it to "combined" logging. Check out the logs now. LOTS more useful info.Jun 02 18:51
schestowitzOh, OK :-)Jun 02 18:51
tessierI already changed it for you. Hope you don't mind. :)Jun 02 18:51
schestowitztessier: yes, I have a toolJun 02 18:51
schestowitzVisitors 0.6Jun 02 18:52
schestowitzIt parses itJun 02 18:52
schestowitzOn my desktop (where I do parsing)Jun 02 18:52
tessierAnd let me know if my messing with the system gets in your way. I try not to mess with it without letting you know unless there is a serious problem. As far as I'm concerned it is your system.Jun 02 18:52
tessier66.249.67.176 - - [02/Jun/2009:11:07:37 -0700] "GET /2009/05/02/page/2/ HTTP/1.1" 200 123131 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)"Jun 02 18:52
tessierThere ya go. Right there. That's google still indexing the site.Jun 02 18:52
_Hicham_DaemonFC is not indexed yet?Jun 02 18:57
schestowitzThat's a good thing ;-)Jun 02 19:07
schestowitzWell, he's using BongJun 02 19:07
schestowitzMSDN is to Bong what Wikipedia is to google :-)Jun 02 19:08
schestowitzWhat ever happened to Google's Wikipedia clone?Jun 02 19:08
schestowitzIt had a Nordic nameJun 02 19:08
schestowitz4 letters, IIRCJun 02 19:08
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DaemonFChmmm, this guys MSDN blog from February 19th 2009 is pointing out the New York Times Reader about to launch with SilverlightJun 02 19:45
DaemonFCand instead what ended up happening was that they scrapped it and went with Adobe Air insteadJun 02 19:45
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schestowitzYesJun 02 19:50
schestowitzOld new, DaemonFC Jun 02 19:50
schestowitz*newsJun 02 19:50
schestowitzSilver Lie is rubbishJun 02 19:50
schestowitzMS fills the press with praises about it (The Slog)Jun 02 19:50
schestowitzIn reality, it admits it's rubbish and scarecely adoptedJun 02 19:50
schestowitzTHEY BRIBE for contracts. People just don't choose Silver Lie.Jun 02 19:50
schestowitzWPF been out for how long? 3 years? Not a single notable application uses the thing. Ballmer was nervous about this in 07/08.Jun 02 19:51
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taconeroy prv for a momentJun 02 20:03
DaemonFCYahoo Messenger for Vista didJun 02 20:04
DaemonFCit never got voice or video thoughJun 02 20:04
DaemonFCso it was about as useful as PidginJun 02 20:04
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 20:04
DaemonFCeventually they took it out and shot itJun 02 20:04
DaemonFCthe WPF version took more resources, obviously made it difficult to implement things that worked fine in the normal Windows programJun 02 20:07
DaemonFCmade it look a little cooler thoughJun 02 20:07
schestowitzThey depend on itJun 02 20:07
DaemonFCthe interface would blend in with your Vista themeJun 02 20:07
schestowitzWith things like Gears and Chrome out there....Jun 02 20:07
schestowitzEven Prism and AIR.Jun 02 20:08
schestowitzVista? No-one uses itJun 02 20:08
schestowitzAnd it's being buriedJun 02 20:08
schestowitzThe zombie OSJun 02 20:08
schestowitz3 years, less than 20%  absorption.Jun 02 20:08
DaemonFCmeh, as Windows releases go, Vista was not a hitJun 02 20:08
DaemonFCbut it still has 4 times the number of Mac usersJun 02 20:08
DaemonFCand 30 users per Linux userJun 02 20:08
DaemonFCbut XP was over twice as popular by this pointJun 02 20:09
DaemonFCso they do have a problemJun 02 20:09
schestowitzBull!Jun 02 20:10
schestowitzStop quoting Microsoft's fake numbersJun 02 20:10
DaemonFCI'm notJun 02 20:10
schestowitzBallmer says Linux has more shape than Mac OS XJun 02 20:10
schestowitzOK?Jun 02 20:10
schestowitzAnd yes, you areJun 02 20:10
DaemonFCthe general consensus spread throughout many statsJun 02 20:10
schestowitzYou spread the FUD in BNJun 02 20:10
schestowitzWe don't accept FUD here..Jun 02 20:10
DaemonFCsay that's the caseJun 02 20:10
schestowitzNopeJun 02 20:10
DaemonFCW3 Schools is always an outlierJun 02 20:10
schestowitzStats sometimes show 3% for Linux or 4%Jun 02 20:11
DaemonFCbecause more Linux and Firefox users go thereJun 02 20:11
schestowitzAnd their methods are deficientJun 02 20:11
DaemonFCthan the typical array of sitesJun 02 20:11
schestowitzJavaScript and stuffJun 02 20:11
schestowitzWhory sites that give their logsJun 02 20:11
schestowitzNot intelligent sitesJun 02 20:11
schestowitzANyway, back in a mopJun 02 20:11
schestowitz*moJun 02 20:11
DaemonFCwell, you trust W3 Schools, and I'll tell you that 99% of the people that use the web are TrekkiesJun 02 20:12
DaemonFCcause of startrek.com's statsJun 02 20:12
DaemonFCactually, as slanted towards Linux as W3 would beJun 02 20:13
DaemonFCit still only gives Linux a 2.16% shareJun 02 20:14
DaemonFCwhich is what makes it the outlierJun 02 20:14
DaemonFCsomewhere around 1% seems to be a reasonable estimateJun 02 20:15
DaemonFCthe other extreme outlier would be Onestat where it's 0.47%Jun 02 20:15
DaemonFCso we know that Linux use is somewhere between 0.47% and 2.16%Jun 02 20:16
DaemonFCbut the others tend to gravitate to around 1%Jun 02 20:16
DaemonFCthat's the problem whan you're dealing with statistical noiseJun 02 20:16
DaemonFCany rounding error could misrepresent Linux by double or halfJun 02 20:17
DaemonFCyou could challenge the method they used to gather data, but then you would be accusing several companies of ALL being on the side of Microsoft, and the W3C as wellJun 02 20:18
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DaemonFCis that what you were implying?Jun 02 20:18
DaemonFCthen in other news, Eben Moglen is back with the usual questionable legal opinionsJun 02 20:20
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qensehelloJun 02 20:20
schestowitzHeyJun 02 20:21
schestowitzI'm linking to it in a momentJun 02 20:21
schestowitzAlso in USENETJun 02 20:21
schestowitzIt's important to bust the myth of Linux looking worse than other platfformsJun 02 20:22
qenseyeahJun 02 20:22
DaemonFCI don't think it's being intentionally over (W3) or under (OneStat) representedJun 02 20:22
qenseit absolutely can look a lot betterJun 02 20:22
schestowitzThere are many posts ont he subjectJun 02 20:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: wrong methodsJun 02 20:22
DaemonFCit's just what you get when you try to estimate numbers that are about as small as the rounding error of the totalJun 02 20:22
DaemonFCif you say your data has a 5% margin of error, that's 5 times the number of Linux usersJun 02 20:23
DaemonFCnumbers could get jumbled around without any intentional wrongdoingJun 02 20:23
schestowitzNothing to to with std errorsJun 02 20:23
schestowitzThe issue is methodsJun 02 20:23
schestowitzPopulation spread and sampling methodJun 02 20:24
schestowitzLike JSJun 02 20:24
DaemonFCwhat about Javascript?Jun 02 20:24
DaemonFCThe few tinfoil hat buffoons that do perverse things like turn it off are fewJun 02 20:24
DaemonFCeven on LinuxJun 02 20:24
DaemonFCthe two things that would skew the numbers would be ad blockers, which any browser on any platform can be made to doJun 02 20:25
DaemonFCso you're kind of in another questionable area thereJun 02 20:25
DaemonFCand things like AVG Linkscanner that masquerade as IE 6Jun 02 20:25
DaemonFCwhich wouldn't grossly inflate the number of Windows users anywayJun 02 20:26
DaemonFCLinkscanner is kind of a bonehead stupid way of going about checking for malware anywayJun 02 20:26
DaemonFCI think it's even off now by defaultJun 02 20:26
schestowitzYou're missing the pointJun 02 20:27
DaemonFCsince it loads the entire page in all your search results, it can eat an obscene amount of bandwidth and fails to account for spyware and other crap that can load from dynamic content on the pageJun 02 20:27
DaemonFClike advertisementsJun 02 20:27
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 20:27
DaemonFCso maybe the page is clean when it scans it and dirty when you load itJun 02 20:28
DaemonFCbecause it didn't get the ad with the trojan dropperJun 02 20:28
DaemonFCanyone with a brain in their head will ditch AVG for reasons like thatJun 02 20:28
DaemonFCso I doubt very many people are using it, and I doubt many of the ones that are, use thatJun 02 20:28
DaemonFCI'd say that the number of people using adblock on Linux is pretty much offset by the people using it on Mac or WindowsJun 02 20:30
DaemonFCso it could theoretically just sort itself out wrt the statsJun 02 20:30
qenseI need to go, bye!Jun 02 20:32
DaemonFCthere's really too many variables when you deal with any kind of statisticsJun 02 20:32
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DaemonFCthen some data leaves enough wiggle room where you could slant itJun 02 20:32
DaemonFCthat's why I don't trust them except maybe for a ballpark figureJun 02 20:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: Real Networks has inked a deal with Canonical........Jun 02 20:34
DaemonFCexcuse me while I go throw upJun 02 20:34
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gYnqpecpsc&NR=1 Dawkins being pretentious..Jun 02 20:34
DaemonFCthere's so many pretentious people in the world, he's hardly worth bitching aboutJun 02 20:35
schestowitzDaemonFC: flush twice when you're doneJun 02 20:35
DaemonFCI try to focus my bitching on people that are actually harming the worldJun 02 20:35
DaemonFCas in religious extremistsJun 02 20:35
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 20:35
schestowitzYouTube is wonky today in the UKJun 02 20:37
DaemonFCBing just embeds the Youtube video so you don't have to load the rest of the crap on the Youtube pageJun 02 20:39
DaemonFCaside from playing thumbnails on mouse overJun 02 20:39
DaemonFCyeah, I like thatJun 02 20:39
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*DaemonFC may try ZonbuJun 02 20:52
DaemonFC:pJun 02 20:52
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taconesorry, went offline :)Jun 02 20:54
schestowitzHeh.Jun 02 20:56
taconedid i miss anything important ?Jun 02 20:56
DaemonFCthere's a guy in Chris Pirillos chatroom that was raving about Zonbu, then again, lots of them like Ubuntu, and VistaJun 02 20:59
DaemonFCso who knowsJun 02 20:59
DaemonFCthen there's the Mac fonboysJun 02 20:59
DaemonFCand those are 12 times worse than anything elseJun 02 21:00
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schestowitztacone: just missed DaemonFC's trollingJun 02 21:05
taconeac ! i love DaemonFC trollingJun 02 21:08
DaemonFCWith my Mac I can.....blah blah blahJun 02 21:10
DaemonFCWith a $2,000 machine you better be able to blah blah blahJun 02 21:11
DaemonFCit should cook you breakfastJun 02 21:11
taconeDaemonFC: i luv uJun 02 21:12
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 21:13
DaemonFChmmm, Bing is also doing deals on shopping apparentlyJun 02 21:13
DaemonFCplaces like Newegg are advertising special prices that you only get if you click through from BingJun 02 21:13
DaemonFCthat's in addition to the cashback thingJun 02 21:14
taconeDaemonFC: live did deals too.Jun 02 21:14
taconeoh, in addition.Jun 02 21:14
DaemonFCthis one camera I'm looking at, Newegg marks it down $20 just for clicking the link on BingJun 02 21:14
DaemonFCthen you get $10 cashback tooJun 02 21:14
taconewell business promotion. tipical ms stuff.Jun 02 21:14
taconelolJun 02 21:15
taconeidiots.Jun 02 21:15
taconeclick on bing, get the saving, and then go back to googleJun 02 21:15
DaemonFCit's the retailer paying Bing/MS to list themJun 02 21:15
DaemonFCthey probably pay Google tooJun 02 21:15
DaemonFCbut Google keeps all of itJun 02 21:15
DaemonFClets see what I can see hereJun 02 21:17
DaemonFChmmmmmJun 02 21:17
DaemonFCsomeone is selling Windows Vista Ultimate for $26.19Jun 02 21:18
taconei don't think soJun 02 21:18
DaemonFCand Microsoft will give you 3% cash back?Jun 02 21:18
DaemonFChttp://www.bing.com/shopping/Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Ultimate-Media-Only/search?q=windows%20vista%20ultimate&scope=cashback&p1=%5bCommerceService+scenario%3d%22o%22+docid%3d%2276F44842B8E346BE63F1%22+p%3d%22df5c7f1ba4404c05b3f423c4e307eee6%22%5d&wf=Commerce&FORM=ENCA3Jun 02 21:18
DaemonFChttp://www.compsource.com/ttechnote.asp?part_no=4CN00867&vid=278&src=JFJun 02 21:18
schestowitzWe've just dumped Google AdSense: Site Filtering and Ethical Advertising < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/site-filtering-and-adbard/ >Jun 02 21:19
DaemonFCschestowitz: Google ads are just totally wrongJun 02 21:19
DaemonFCI mean, obvious scams and spywareJun 02 21:19
schestowitzThe Live Perks gig was called offJun 02 21:19
schestowitzMicrosoft can't bribe anymoreJun 02 21:19
DaemonFCthink I mentioned thatJun 02 21:19
schestowitzThey lost market share even when bribingJun 02 21:19
DaemonFCit's not the search that pays youJun 02 21:20
DaemonFCit's cashback for shoppingJun 02 21:20
DaemonFCit's kind of like a rebate systemJun 02 21:20
schestowitzThey were like the girl who sought a b/f by sleeping w/ every willing passerbyJun 02 21:20
schestowitzGoogle Adsense gives them an eye on the WebJun 02 21:20
schestowitzIn addition to SERPs and AnalyticsJun 02 21:20
schestowitzOh!Jun 02 21:20
schestowitzAnd most importantly Google ToolbarJun 02 21:21
schestowitzThat said, Mcirosoft does exactly the same thingJun 02 21:21
DaemonFCmeh, the MSN toolbar actually dolled up IE 6Jun 02 21:22
DaemonFCadded tabsJun 02 21:22
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 21:22
DaemonFCschestowitz: I figured out what this guys deal is, the ones selling Vista for $27Jun 02 21:22
DaemonFCthey list a bunch of editions for $27 then mark them all backorderedJun 02 21:23
DaemonFCthat way they get a free listing and bait on Bing shopping searchJun 02 21:23
taconeDaemonFC: i think you have too much keyboard keys at hand. just ctrl+alt+del would suffice for youJun 02 21:24
tacone(flaming :PP)Jun 02 21:24
DaemonFCyeah, you hit that to make the task monitor pop upJun 02 21:24
DaemonFC:)Jun 02 21:24
taconeDaemonFC: keep those pressed for an hour. An easter egg screen will popup with ballmer explaining the ultimate truths about Microsoft :)Jun 02 21:25
taconedo that and then tell us what he said :)Jun 02 21:25
*DaemonFC has used Windows for oh, 16 years nowJun 02 21:26
DaemonFCthe only one that was actually unbearable was Windows 98Jun 02 21:27
DaemonFChttp://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/02/199225/Sotomayors-Position-On-Copyright-Damages?from=rssJun 02 21:28
DaemonFC"Wired reports that, based on her previous decisions, Sonia Sotomayor will likely affirm high damages (read: RIAA excessive) in cases where copyright claims are at issue. Good thing I'm not a betting man, because I'd have guessed the exact opposite."Jun 02 21:28
taconeDaemonFC: you forgot windows me (also known as missed ballmer peak)Jun 02 21:28
DaemonFCWindows Me wasn't really all that bad compared to Windows 98Jun 02 21:29
taconewhich windows 98 ? the a,b,c,d or e ?Jun 02 21:30
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DaemonFCthere was Windows 98 and 98 SEJun 02 21:30
DaemonFCSE was essentially just the whole collection of updates to that pointJun 02 21:30
DaemonFCit was a $10 disc if you had Windows 98 alreadyJun 02 21:30
DaemonFCor you could download them for freeJun 02 21:30
DaemonFCXP SP2 was actually a free CD and free shippingJun 02 21:31
taconeno, there were 5 sub releasesJun 02 21:31
taconemaybe that was before of Service Packs, i don't knowJun 02 21:31
DaemonFCthre were only two Windows 98 releasesJun 02 21:32
taconei remember the letter popping up in the boot screenJun 02 21:32
DaemonFCthere were several Windows 95Jun 02 21:32
DaemonFCmost were OEM onlyJun 02 21:32
taconeDaemonFC: i'll send ballmer to your house if you keep contradicting me :)Jun 02 21:32
DaemonFCif you were lucky enough to get a Windows 95 OSR 2.1 disk, you didn't really need Windows 98Jun 02 21:32
DaemonFCMicrosoft actually put USB and FAT32 support in and there was no integrated IE yetJun 02 21:33
DaemonFCthey never sold it because it would have destroyed their pitch for Windows 98Jun 02 21:33
DaemonFCthey knew hard disks were soon to be too big for FAT16 when Windows 95 A shipped, they shipped it like that so they could easily make the case to sell Windows 98Jun 02 21:34
DaemonFC"Don't want 2,3,4, or more partitions? Windows 98" "Don't want the cluster size wasting hundreds of megs on every partition? Windows 98" "Want USB support? Windows 98"Jun 02 21:35
DaemonFCand then of course Windows 98 was its own bag of wormsJun 02 21:36
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DaemonFChttp://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=linux&docid=688338174050&mid=BEA7BA23DBB9CA7EDEB7BEA7BA23DBB9CA7EDEB7&FORM=VIVR7Jun 02 21:50
DaemonFCroflJun 02 21:50
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DaemonFCthat's the gaudiest Linux device everJun 02 21:50
DaemonFCit looks like Fisher Price made itJun 02 21:51
MinceRwhat, the mostly plain white stuff?Jun 02 21:58
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mtnd3whello allJun 02 22:01
schestowitzhi, mtnd3w Jun 02 22:03
schestowitzHow KDE Defeated DRM (and What Linux Might Do Next) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/how-kde-defeated-drm/ >Jun 02 22:03
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mike_siderisBit quiet today.Jun 02 22:12
mike_siderisIs everyone taking a break?Jun 02 22:14
schestowitzHeyJun 02 22:17
schestowitzWhat's up?Jun 02 22:17
schestowitzSideris?Jun 02 22:17
mike_siderisNot much, kind of a slow day to be honest.Jun 02 22:17
mike_siderisAt least it's nice out.Jun 02 22:18
schestowitzI got no mail.Jun 02 22:18
schestowitzWeird.Jun 02 22:18
schestowitzDid it bounced off?Jun 02 22:18
schestowitz*bounceJun 02 22:18
mike_siderisPossibly, I thought your email was roy@schestowitz.com?Jun 02 22:18
schestowitzYeah.Jun 02 22:18
schestowitzDidn't get anything..Jun 02 22:18
mike_siderisAre you sure?Jun 02 22:19
schestowitzYeahJun 02 22:19
schestowitzLet me test itJun 02 22:19
taconegnome-do founder hired by canonical in the design and user experience teamJun 02 22:19
mike_siderisI sent you a rather lengthy discussion that I wanted you to take a look at.Jun 02 22:19
taconehttp://blog.davebsd.com/2009/06/02/joining-canonical/Jun 02 22:19
taconei don't think he will code.Jun 02 22:19
schestowitzOh no...Jun 02 22:20
taconei don't think he will do any badJun 02 22:20
taconei think it's goodJun 02 22:20
taconecanonical does python and always willJun 02 22:20
taconeit's good to have someone like him. he did a great job with gnome-doJun 02 22:21
schestowitzmike_sideris: coogan?Jun 02 22:21
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taconehaving well designed python apps may do for good things and wipe the belief that mono is the reason for apps to be good.Jun 02 22:21
mike_siderisWhat's that?Jun 02 22:21
schestowitzNever mindJun 02 22:21
schestowitzCan you try the other E-mail addy?Jun 02 22:21
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P531IaBGRHUJun 02 22:22
schestowitzI saw your kde4 aqrticleJun 02 22:23
schestowitzin linux.comJun 02 22:23
schestowitzBut what do you want from us?Jun 02 22:23
schestowitzWhy the attacks?Jun 02 22:23
mike_siderisFriendship.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitzWhy the slander?Jun 02 22:23
mike_siderisThere were none.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitzNopeJun 02 22:23
schestowitzNo friendship thereJun 02 22:23
schestowitzImpolite hostilityJun 02 22:24
schestowitzAstroTurf tacticsJun 02 22:24
mike_siderisIn that community, yes.Jun 02 22:24
mike_siderisBut on a personal level.Jun 02 22:24
mike_siderisI'd like to make amends.Jun 02 22:24
schestowitzStick to the messageJun 02 22:24
mike_siderisWe're both human beings.Jun 02 22:24
schestowitzMessage, not charactersJun 02 22:24
schestowitzAttribute message to peopleJun 02 22:24
schestowitzThat's fineJun 02 22:24
schestowitzNot making stuff up about personal livesJun 02 22:24
schestowitzHuman beings, not friends..Jun 02 22:24
mike_siderisRight.Jun 02 22:24
schestowitzI have people whom I seeJun 02 22:25
mike_siderisBut equals nonetheless.Jun 02 22:25
schestowitzAnd I don't need someone half way across the world pretending that I'm trassexual or somethingJun 02 22:25
schestowitzCause that's what you guys try to doJun 02 22:25
mike_siderisWell, that one wasn't from us.Jun 02 22:25
schestowitzAd Hominem tripeJun 02 22:25
schestowitzAnd slanderJun 02 22:25
schestowitzIt wasJun 02 22:25
mike_siderisI admit, we're quite crude.Jun 02 22:25
DaemonFCstop caring?Jun 02 22:26
mike_siderisSure.Jun 02 22:26
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*schestowitz removes ban on *!*n=sean@173-29-123-36.client.mchsi.comJun 02 22:27
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*n=diablo@*.port.east.myfairpoint.netJun 02 22:27
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dEA-S6QtKA&feature=player_embeddedJun 02 22:32
DaemonFCdamned old peopleJun 02 22:35
DaemonFCworse than big oil and the RIAA put togetherJun 02 22:35
DaemonFCmelt some of those greedy bastards down and run our cars off thatJun 02 22:36
DaemonFCtwo problems solvedJun 02 22:37
DaemonFCschestowitz: Now Kevin Carmony is whoring himself over some music storeJun 02 22:39
DaemonFC:PJun 02 22:40
DaemonFChe's moved from Linspire to fog computing crapJun 02 22:40
schestowitzMore Suspicious Moves from ASUS < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/suspicious-moves-from-asus/ >Jun 02 22:41
schestowitzKevin Carmony? Meh.Jun 02 22:41
schestowitzHe's irrelevant to FOSS nowJun 02 22:41
schestowitzSame with Robertson.Jun 02 22:41
DaemonFCIn 2006 Mark Webbink; a lawyer and member of the board of the Software Freedom Law Center, and former employee of Linux vendor Red Hat; said,Jun 02 22:42
DaemonFC"Red Hat believes that the text of the OSP gives sufficient flexibility to implement the listed specifications in software licensed under free and open source licenses. We commend Microsoft’s efforts to reach out to representatives from the open source community and solicit their feedback on this text, and Microsoft's willingness to make modifications in response to our comments."[Jun 02 22:42
DaemonFChmmmmJun 02 22:42
DaemonFCLinspire just proved a point, anyone that doesn't have a problem with all kinds of proprietary software they have to pay money for already has a Mac or WindowsJun 02 22:43
DaemonFCand has no interest in cheap imitationsJun 02 22:44
DaemonFCLinspire never really posed a threat beyon making enough money to break even while their upper management used it as a FUD platformJun 02 22:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: Where did Lsongs and Lphoto go off to?Jun 02 22:47
DaemonFCthey were constantly bragging about thoseJun 02 22:47
DaemonFCthey are GPLJun 02 22:47
schestowitzQuick.. what's the weight of Mono?Jun 02 23:01
schestowitzI can't find out anywhere... http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/archive/1.1.13.2/download/rhel-4-i386/Jun 02 23:01
schestowitzWas it 20mb? 30mb by now?Jun 02 23:01
schestowitzOn Ubuntu, how much are the binaries?Jun 02 23:01
DaemonFCschestowitzJun 02 23:04
DaemonFCroughly 60 megs if you don't have Windows FormsJun 02 23:04
DaemonFCif I recall correctlyJun 02 23:05
DaemonFCBanshee has to pull in Windows FormsJun 02 23:05
DaemonFCand a few other patent encumbered bitsJun 02 23:05
DaemonFCso if Ubuntu goes and includes Banshee by default, they'll really be on thin iceJun 02 23:06
DaemonFCWindows 7 has an official launch dateJun 02 23:09
DaemonFCit'll be on OEM PCs by October 22ndJun 02 23:09
*tacone listening to steve ballmer "developers developers developers"Jun 02 23:09
schestowitzRed Hat Replaces Tomboy with Gnote, Removes Mono Dependency < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/fedora-removes-mono-dependant/ >Jun 02 23:09
DaemonFCthe retail box set and upgrade discs will probably be in November or DecemberJun 02 23:09
schestowitzHehe. Too lateJun 02 23:10
schestowitzQ3 results due by JulyJun 02 23:10
schestowitzThen in OctoberJun 02 23:10
schestowitzAround that release timeJun 02 23:11
schestowitzExpect more nasty results before thenJun 02 23:11
taconeschestowitz: did they removed it from the livecd ?Jun 02 23:11
schestowitzyesJun 02 23:11
schestowitzSpace constraints they sayJun 02 23:11
taconelol, wasn't mono meant to save space :PJun 02 23:12
DaemonFChttp://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/06/02/apple_sued_over_methods_for_repeat_itunes_app_store_sales.htmlJun 02 23:13
DaemonFCApple, along with more than a dozen other firms conducting e-commerce, have been hit with a lawsuit from a patent trolling claiming first rights to technology that simplifies the re-billing process for repeat customers making purchases through online storesJun 02 23:13
schestowitztacone: what space?/Jun 02 23:13
schestowitzRAM?Jun 02 23:13
schestowitzDisk?Jun 02 23:13
schestowitzNeither?Jun 02 23:13
schestowitzLots of space for lawsuits, tooJun 02 23:13
taconeeheheJun 02 23:15
DaemonFCschestowitz: Microsoft may not like to admit it, but it has to support Vista til 2017Jun 02 23:15
DaemonFC:PJun 02 23:15
taconeso, f12 will be the distribution of the revengeJun 02 23:16
schestowitzDaemonFC: noperJun 02 23:17
schestowitz2011 I thinkJun 02 23:17
schestowitzOr 2011Jun 02 23:17
schestowitzOr 2012Jun 02 23:17
MinceRgnJun 02 23:17
schestowitzThere was an article from Greg in ComputerWorldJun 02 23:17
taconedoes the opensourcer(dot)whatever come here in the chanell ?Jun 02 23:17
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DaemonFCschestowitz: 2017 if you have Business or EnterpriseJun 02 23:18
_goblinhi allJun 02 23:18
_goblinWhere were you DaemonFC? I missed you yesterday?Jun 02 23:18
MinceRdon't encourage himJun 02 23:19
*DaemonFC hug tackles MinceRJun 02 23:20
_goblin:)Jun 02 23:21
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taconelolJun 02 23:23
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*MinceR kicks DaemonFC in the junk and pushes him awayJun 02 23:24
*tacone runs anti-virus on DaemonFC Jun 02 23:25
*tacone norton anti-virus quarantined DaemonFC Jun 02 23:25
*MinceR watches with glee as the anti-virus completely destroys DaemonFC Jun 02 23:25
*tacone norton says DaemonFC can't be deleted. oh, crap !Jun 02 23:26
taconewe should reformat the channelJun 02 23:26
DaemonFCyeah, I was in use and you have to reboot your computerJun 02 23:28
DaemonFClife's a bitchJun 02 23:29
taconelol, right,Jun 02 23:31
taconehttp://punto-informatico.it/2635663_2/PI/News/sara-davvero-un-bing-bang.aspxJun 02 23:31
taconebum, they noticed the linux windows thing.Jun 02 23:31
tacone(curioso che alla keyword "linux" il primo suggerimento associ "windows", il secondo "microsoft" e il terzo "vista"),Jun 02 23:32
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mib_eyu05vheyJun 02 23:36
mib_eyu05vjust stopping by to say that you hit the nail on the head on the ubuntu silencing mono oppositionJun 02 23:36
mib_eyu05vyou probably already know this, but they are hiring people from the mono community latelyJun 02 23:37
DaemonFCwell, it's a startJun 02 23:37
mib_eyu05vthey just hired the gnome-do developer, for exampleJun 02 23:37
DaemonFCWMP now reads FLAC tagsJun 02 23:37
DaemonFCodd that those are two different pluginsJun 02 23:37
mib_eyu05vand they hired at least 2 others that I know ofJun 02 23:38
mib_eyu05vone of my friends who works at canonical let it slip to me that they are working on some tomboy extensions or something and will be basing their future ui on gnome-do (and now that I see the gnome-do got hired, it makes sense)Jun 02 23:39
taconeDaemonFC: can you read ogg ?Jun 02 23:39
mib_eyu05vthey are going to use gnome-do's macosx-like dockJun 02 23:39
DaemonFCyep :)Jun 02 23:39
mib_eyu05vno doubt this is why they are now squashing people who point out the facts about mono on the ubuntu forumsJun 02 23:40
schestowitzEasy-LTSP Dumps Mono/C#, Rewritten in Python Instead < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/easy-ltsp-chooses-python-instead/ >Jun 02 23:40
mib_eyu05vjust thought I'd give you guys a heads-upJun 02 23:40
schestowitzmib_eyu05v: hiJun 02 23:41
schestowitzI posted about it moments agoJun 02 23:41
schestowitzSee the linksJun 02 23:41
schestowitzThey hire the gnome-do devJun 02 23:41
schestowitzOh, I see you beat me to itJun 02 23:41
schestowitzI'm catching upJun 02 23:41
mib_eyu05voh, niceJun 02 23:42
mib_eyu05vwhat's the link to your gnome-do article?Jun 02 23:42
schestowitzSame oneJun 02 23:42
schestowitzIt's a mention aloneJun 02 23:42
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taconebing = failJun 02 23:43
schestowitzThey also promoted Shields to MOTUJun 02 23:43
schestowitzBuilding a barracksJun 02 23:43
taconeschestowitz: no no noJun 02 23:43
mib_eyu05voh, ok, I'm reading that nowJun 02 23:43
taconewrong.Jun 02 23:43
schestowitztacone: bong = vanityJun 02 23:43
taconecanonical is not into motu'sJun 02 23:43
taconemotus get promoted for merit.Jun 02 23:43
taconeshields is (probably) a mono packagerJun 02 23:43
schestowitzYesJun 02 23:44
schestowitzfor Debian tooJun 02 23:44
taconeschestowitz: there should be logs about the voting to make him motJun 02 23:44
taconemotuJun 02 23:44
schestowitzIf Miguel was the developerJun 02 23:44
taconei have no doubt he deserves it.Jun 02 23:44
schestowitzThen Shields would be thew vassal or apprenticeJun 02 23:44
schestowitzPackagerJun 02 23:44
schestowitzHe makes his suitacseJun 02 23:44
taconeit's community stuff not canonicalJun 02 23:44
taconecanonical hires, community makes motusJun 02 23:44
schestowitzI know.Jun 02 23:45
schestowitzBut the community can get tilted tooJun 02 23:45
taconeso canonical didn't favor shields just because of mono. at least i hope. :)Jun 02 23:45
taconeshields being friend or vassal or whatever of miguel is another storyJun 02 23:46
mib_eyu05vtacone: they sure seemed to favor him in the forums where he was attacking neighborleeJun 02 23:46
mib_eyu05vas neighborlee stated in the forums, it's not fair that he gets cenored because he uses the word FUD when shields did notJun 02 23:47
mib_eyu05vcensoredJun 02 23:47
mib_eyu05vthe mono crowd seems to be infiltrating ubuntu in various waysJun 02 23:47
mib_eyu05vand it doesn't make me feel goodJun 02 23:48
mib_eyu05vit does not bode well for the future of linuxJun 02 23:48
taconeneighborlee exceeded as well, by the wayJun 02 23:48
mib_eyu05vexceeded what?Jun 02 23:49
taconebtw i see the jo shields merits are mainly in contributing mono. but that's normal as long as mono is acceptedJun 02 23:49
taconehe slightly excedeedJun 02 23:49
taconehe reopened a dead threadJun 02 23:49
taconeand it wasn't a thread about mono, btwJun 02 23:49
taconeshield's behaviour in mono thread, anyway, is not good. not for me at leastJun 02 23:50
mib_eyu05vhe should be banned tooJun 02 23:50
taconehe marks concerns as FUD without giving any referenceJun 02 23:50
taconewere neighborlee banned ?Jun 02 23:51
mib_eyu05vsorry I mean put on probationJun 02 23:51
mib_eyu05valso notice that the admins seem to also call neighborlee's statements FUD w/o referenceJun 02 23:52
mib_eyu05vthey are just as badJun 02 23:52
mib_eyu05vI am wondering if those moderators aren't mono boosters themselvesJun 02 23:53
mib_eyu05vinfiltrating ubuntu forumsJun 02 23:53
taconethe problem with moderators is that they're just bored peopleJun 02 23:54
mib_eyu05vI've seen one of the moderators boost moonlight in another threadJun 02 23:54
taconeit doesn't take much to them to mark anything as fud/flame/unusefulJun 02 23:54
taconei had problems with those on a non-mono thread. and i was trying to say the same thing as the moderator himselfJun 02 23:54
mib_eyu05vbetween mono, moonlight, and now DRM in the linux kernelJun 02 23:55
mib_eyu05vI am getting worriedJun 02 23:55
taconenot just you.Jun 02 23:57
schestowitzMicrosoft’s Search Engine Already Banned by Websense and by China < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/bing-blocked/ >Jun 02 23:58
mib_eyu05vI can't help but wonder if microsoft is behind all of thisJun 02 23:58
*mib_r6iclk (i=7d3cbd0a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7c65de876ce7f9bd) has joined #boycottnovellJun 02 23:58
taconebing is live with lipstickJun 02 23:59
taconei did 2-3 searches and it sucks quite muchJun 02 23:59
mib_eyu05vpulling strings inside canonical and suchJun 02 23:59
taconei don't think ms is inside canonical.Jun 02 23:59

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