IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 3rd, 2009

mib_eyu05vI'm not sure which is worse, ms pulling strings inside canonical or canonical just being mono loversJun 03 00:00
taconewhile I think novell has many friendsJun 03 00:00
mib_eyu05vm$, novell, same difference reallyJun 03 00:00
mib_eyu05vit doesn't matter if novell is weaseling their way into pulling strings to push the mono agenda inside canonical or if it is m$Jun 03 00:01
mib_eyu05vthe end result is the sameJun 03 00:01
mib_eyu05vthey are both trying to destroy linux from the inside outJun 03 00:02
mib_eyu05vof this I am sureJun 03 00:02
mib_eyu05vand they are using mono to do itJun 03 00:02
mib_eyu05vit would appear that the gnome-do author is now attacking us on twitterJun 03 00:05
mib_eyu05vwell, I gotta go meet some friendsJun 03 00:06
mib_eyu05vI'll be back later thoughJun 03 00:06
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schestowitzI was told once that Microsoft might be behind thisJun 03 00:11
schestowitzIt's hard to take at face value thoughJun 03 00:11
schestowitzBut for MS to pay some forum shill is sludh fundsJun 03 00:11
schestowitzAnd Ubuntu is by far its biggest risk on the desktopJun 03 00:12
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mtnd3wit's true about ubuntu forums being mono bombardedJun 03 00:23
mtnd3wlook at the ubuntuforums.org first, there is a mono thread updated by an admin, under the archive categoryJun 03 00:24
schestowitzMindshareJun 03 00:24
mtnd3wthe funny thing is, the whole category is closed, but the admin decides to update the threadJun 03 00:24
schestowitz"Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input.  Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them.  Thus, you control mindshare! --MS http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdfJun 03 00:24
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mtnd3wyou know i was thinking about the whole forums/admin thing way back in 2007. now that others point out the mono propaganda it reaffirms my speculationsJun 03 00:27
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schestowitzUnited States Supreme Court May Call Off Software Patents < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/us-supreme-court-re-bilski/ >Jun 03 00:34
schestowitzgnJun 03 00:34
schestowitzmtnd3w: yesJun 03 00:34
schestowitzWe wrote about this in 2008Jun 03 00:34
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/15/mono-contamination-in-ubuntu/Jun 03 00:35
schestowitzControl a minority voters (most Ubuntu users are passive)=>control outcome/decision of rivalJun 03 00:36
schestowitzMicrosoft needs seat-warmersJun 03 00:36
taconeno example of invalidated bug reports are citedJun 03 00:41
mtnd3wis there an Ubuntu wiki for removing mono?Jun 03 00:46
mtnd3wi think someone should create one, if it's not there already.Jun 03 00:46
taconemtnd3w: dunno, but you could look for it, or create a pageJun 03 00:46
taconeyou're part of the community :)Jun 03 00:46
mtnd3wok, i will, i'll create a launchpad accountJun 03 00:47
taconeofflining gnJun 03 00:51
mtnd3wg'nightJun 03 00:58
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mtnd3wlook at this guy on the ubuntuforums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1176852Jun 03 01:17
mtnd3wsatipera asks: "I have been reading about mono and how it could be a patent trap should I be avoiding tomboy like redhat are?"Jun 03 01:18
mtnd3wdanielrmt  answers in the 2nd post: "Mono is based on ECMA standards. If you are really worried about patents, you should not even use the Linux kernel, which has the support for Microsoft file systems (FAT/NTFS), or OpenOffice, which supports Microsoft Office file formats (doc/xls). There are thousands of small things also.Jun 03 01:18
mtnd3wWould you drop great applications like Tomboy, Banshee or Gnome-Do because of it?"Jun 03 01:18
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taconebing people are getting hystericJun 03 01:49
taconethe results already changedJun 03 01:50
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mtnd3wwb taconeJun 03 02:10
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mtnd3wtacone: done take a look at thread, i've added alternatives for mono apps as wellJun 03 03:15
taconeuri ?Jun 03 03:25
taconei closed the previous windowJun 03 03:25
mtnd3whttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1176852Jun 03 03:25
taconeokJun 03 03:26
taconewell, banshee is not really a little project :-DDDJun 03 03:27
taconebtw, expect some reaction. people become aggressive about mono.Jun 03 03:27
mtnd3wlolJun 03 03:31
mtnd3wnpJun 03 03:33
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schestowitzThis one might be worth submitting to LinuxToday.. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/mono-an-infectious-disease/Jun 03 06:43
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twitterIndia moves to gag web sites http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Govt-gearing-up-to-gag-news-websites/articleshow/4562292.cmsJun 03 06:59
twitterWould such a move silence the next protests there?Jun 03 07:01
schestowitzYes, seen earlier/yesterdayJun 03 07:10
fewayou should put in the whole balmer quoteJun 03 07:11
schestowitzWhich one?Jun 03 07:11
schestowitzThere's loads of rubbish coming out of that mouth...Jun 03 07:12
twitterHi, Roy.Jun 03 07:12
schestowitz"http://hyperbored.com/steve-ballmers-brain-goes-chop-chop-chop/Jun 03 07:12
twitterI think you got the wrong quote in this article http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/us-supreme-court-re-bilski/Jun 03 07:13
fewaLinux isn't going away. Linux is a serious competitor. We will rise to this challenge.Jun 03 07:13
fewait was in the red hat "truth happens" adJun 03 07:13
twitterthe two paragraphs you cut from http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/court-to-rule-on-patent-dispute/ contained nothing about biskiJun 03 07:14
fewayou switched the lwn and slashdot linksJun 03 07:15
schestowitzYeah, not good quotesJun 03 07:15
fewaand lwn is not subscribers-only except for the first week after a storyJun 03 07:15
schestowitz"The Unix phenomenon is scary. It doesn't go away." -- Steve BallmerJun 03 07:15
fewalolololJun 03 07:16
fewaunix was around way before microsoftJun 03 07:16
fewamicrosoft even created XenixJun 03 07:16
twitterWindows is scary.  A well funded army of cult members push it everywhere and heap abuse on everyone else.Jun 03 07:17
twitterPointing out flaws, like Peter Gutmann or Peter Quinn did, results in a career threatening barrage of abuse.Jun 03 07:18
fewathe "phenomenon" is open source, but he wouldn't even admit it. IMHOJun 03 07:19
schestowitzUS Military Now On Twitter, Facebook < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/02/us-military-now-on-twitter-facebook >. PR probably...Jun 03 07:20
fewa" PR probably...", no shitJun 03 07:20
schestowitzWell, yeahJun 03 07:20
schestowitzBut it can get uglyJun 03 07:20
schestowitzfewa: no, not open sourceJun 03 07:21
schestowitzFree softwareJun 03 07:21
schestowitzGPL..Jun 03 07:21
fewacreapy thing is that twitter s two wayJun 03 07:21
schestowitzThe "Cancel"Jun 03 07:21
schestowitzThe "Cancer" as he called itJun 03 07:21
fewaschestowitz, thx for correcting meJun 03 07:21
twitterI wonder if Sweaty B understands the difference between Unix, Linux and free software.Jun 03 07:21
schestowitzProbablyJun 03 07:21
twitterIt's probably all the same to his "chop chop" brain.Jun 03 07:21
fewatwitter, he totally doesJun 03 07:21
schestowitzIt's his #1 threat]Jun 03 07:21
fewadevelopers developers developers developers developers developers developers developersJun 03 07:22
schestowitzIt would be funny seeing his face when he uses Google for searchJun 03 07:22
twitterBut now that you can get GNU/BSD from Debian, I think Sweaty B's head will explode.Jun 03 07:22
schestowitzMost MS employees use Google (about half)Jun 03 07:22
schestowitzWait, Is The Newspaper Business Thriving Or Falling Apart? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090602/0712025092.shtml >Jun 03 07:23
*schestowitz does not looks news papers.Jun 03 07:23
fewaschestowitz, even bill gates talked about employees using google search in an interview with that crazy interview guyJun 03 07:23
schestowitzThe recent collusion (possible crime) increased resentment furtherJun 03 07:23
fewacharlie whatyomacallitJun 03 07:24
schestowitzGive Darwin awards to this man: Bank robber arrested after boasting of crime on MySpace < http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10251862-93.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 >Jun 03 07:25
fewacharlie roseJun 03 07:26
twitterM$ avoids the words "Linux" and "Free Software" and prefers the term "Open Source"Jun 03 07:27
fewatwitter, yepJun 03 07:27
fewaand google bans the AGPL on google codeJun 03 07:27
twitterThe also misuse the term UnixJun 03 07:27
schestowitzAnother disappointment: Obama Joins Group to Block Treaty for Blind and Other Reading Disabilities < http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/obama-joins-group-to-bloc_b_208693.html >Jun 03 07:27
schestowitz charlie rose annoys me sometimesJun 03 07:28
twitterM$ claims to be "Open Source" but it will never be freeJun 03 07:28
fewa"shared source" and "mixed source"Jun 03 07:28
schestowitzHe's among the only people i'm subsribed to in YouTubeJun 03 07:28
schestowitzBut he's hostile t/w some reasonable guestsJun 03 07:28
schestowitzHe also invited the patent troll a lot... MS' patent troll.Jun 03 07:28
fewahe gets really good guestsJun 03 07:28
fewa*high profile guestsJun 03 07:29
twittertwitters mind goes "snooze, snooze, snooze"  good night.Jun 03 07:30
fewaobama is a RIAA manJun 03 07:30
schestowitzI may no longer have to call these sub-notebooks... Psion Gives Up Its Trademark Claim On 'Netbook' < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090601/2255185090.shtml >Jun 03 07:30
schestowitzBiden tooJun 03 07:30
schestowitzFighting against the peopleJun 03 07:30
schestowitzFor the "owners of the country"Jun 03 07:31
fewaim ambivalent on the netbook thingJun 03 07:31
schestowitzGotta keep the bewildered herd in check..Jun 03 07:31
fewapsion did coin the term and use itJun 03 07:31
schestowitz"bewildered herd" is their own termJun 03 07:31
schestowitzI can't remember which presidency is wasJun 03 07:31
schestowitzStill, better than "ignorant masses"Jun 03 07:31
schestowitzYouTube's Big Traffic Stick Forces PRS To Slash UK Streaming Royalty Rate < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090601/1120365085.shtml >Jun 03 07:32
*schestowitz <3 YouTubeJun 03 07:32
schestowitzFedora taking out the Mono is worth writing about. some more..Jun 03 07:34
schestowitzMichael Dell suffered pay cut http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184472/michael-dell-pay-cutJun 03 07:36
schestowitzUS firm slashes Philippine workforce: official < http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/us-firm-slashes-philippine-workforce-official-20090602-bu6t.html > GlobalisationJun 03 07:36
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schestowitzFox upset about Bing [,,,] "Fox moans that children and all good Reich-wing Christian Republicans who get upset at the thought of adult entertainment need to be protected from this sort of thing." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184465/fox-upset-blingJun 03 07:38
kentma"... protect the children ... ... eliminate all your freedom ... ... protect the children... "Jun 03 07:39
fewa"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."Jun 03 07:40
kentmaIndeed.  If you read the inq article, though, you'll see that it's really about making sure that people pay for pr0n, rather than get it free.Jun 03 07:41
fewaactually: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"Jun 03 07:41
fewaright wingers pay much, much more for pornJun 03 07:41
kentma:-)Jun 03 07:41
schestowitzL0phtCrack is back < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/139605 >Jun 03 07:42
kentmaOur home secretary was claiming for it as an expense recently.Jun 03 07:42
schestowitzHhaa..Jun 03 07:42
schestowitzNow, that's why transparency scares them.Jun 03 07:42
schestowitzReimbursements for food, private planes and escort services...Jun 03 07:43
kentmamoat cleaning.Jun 03 07:44
schestowitzkentma: maybe he was just studying the risk, you know, in order to pass some laws to protect adolescents.Jun 03 07:44
kentmaSlightly more complex, home seccy was a she, but, it's claimed, her husband was watching the pr0n vid in an hotel.  Personally,  I suspect that she was watching it, but hoped that she'd get away by blaming a nasty man for having done it.Jun 03 07:44
schestowitz40,000 sites hit by PC-pwning hack attack < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/02/beladen_mass_website_infection/ >Jun 03 07:49
schestowitzI'm not buying it:  "The only other possible explanation is the website owners have basically had their FTP credentials or account credentials compromised."Jun 03 07:49
schestowitzJust that?Jun 03 07:49
schestowitzBesides: many Webmasters useJun 03 07:50
schestowitz.. WindowsJun 03 07:50
schestowitzWhich means that their PCs are likely zombiesJun 03 07:50
kentmadoesn't everyone use ssh to access websites now?Jun 03 07:50
schestowitzSo passwords can be pulled from their PCs and then use to hijack their sites and infect visitors tooJun 03 07:50
schestowitzkentma: Windows users don't SSHJun 03 07:50
kentmaThat's the easy route in - find out where Windows is used in the chain and get access there.  It's a bit like building a jail and then putting yale locks on the doors...Jun 03 07:51
kentmareally?  silly b*ggers.Jun 03 07:51
schestowitzJacqui Smith will leave the Cabinet on Monday, it was reported today. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/02/jacqui_sacky/Jun 03 08:01
schestowitzkentma: same with banksweakest link: Windows desktopsJun 03 08:02
kentmahehe, yes!Jun 03 08:03
schestowitzMicrosoft collapses because it's shutting down another 13 products: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/02/microsoft_products_firing_line/ Microsoft guns down 13 unlucky productsJun 03 08:06
schestowitzThe key is under the carpet (XP)Jun 03 08:06
kentmaI recall when Autoroute was still independent.  I even had a copy, once.  When MS bought it, I gave up on it, and started using TomTom instead.Jun 03 08:07
schestowitzGoogle eyeballs planted on 92% of top websites < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/03/google_tracking_study/ > Plus a lot of browsers (Google Toolbar)Jun 03 08:07
schestowitzkentma: I'll do a quick post about it for moraleJun 03 08:08
schestowitzMicrosoft is scared of being seen as weakJun 03 08:08
schestowitzTo many people, the rationale behind buying MS is that it will be there in the futureJun 03 08:08
schestowitzNow it's borrowing moneyJun 03 08:09
schestowitzDell axes hackintosh makers' favourite netbook < http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/06/02/dell_axes_mini_9/  >Jun 03 08:09
kentmaIt's quite scary how many companies MS have destroyed by purchasing them and then failing to make them work.  Encarta killed several encyclopaedias, although we ought to be happy that Britannica declined to deal with them :-)Jun 03 08:10
fewao woahJun 03 08:10
fewathe mini 9 is gone!Jun 03 08:10
fewai was thinking about one of thoseJun 03 08:10
fewahttp://dell.com/ubuntuJun 03 08:10
schestowitz Britons say broadband 'essential' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8079637.stm >Jun 03 08:11
schestowitzfewa: they have newer modelsJun 03 08:11
fewahttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/new-bill-wants-fiber-conduit-built-into-every-road-project.arsJun 03 08:11
schestowitzit only makes sense to phase out the older onesJun 03 08:11
schestowitzReplacement parts would get more pricey thoughJun 03 08:11
fewaHR 2428 , no brainer billJun 03 08:11
schestowitzThat's the issue with 'proprietary' hardwareJun 03 08:11
fewaall laptops are propritary-ishJun 03 08:12
kentmafibre dates fairly quickly.Jun 03 08:12
fewaand supposedly it has good access to ram, ssdJun 03 08:12
fewabut dell.com/ubuntu doesnt show the mini 10Jun 03 08:12
schestowitzStupid headline from MSBBC:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8078629.stm More than one Microsoft platform is hardly cross-platformJun 03 08:13
fewacosts more, no web cam, smaller screenJun 03 08:14
kentmaFooty - Real Madrid about to pay £56mio for Kaka... presumably they expect to make much more than £56mio from him...Jun 03 08:14
fewaand no SSD driveJun 03 08:14
fewamini 9 was betterJun 03 08:14
kentmaschestowitz: write to them and point it out.  I'm sick fo the beeb making basic technical errors like that.Jun 03 08:14
schestowitzfewa: maybe MS pressuredJun 03 08:14
schestowitzThey try to harm netbooksJun 03 08:14
schestowitzTo sell more laptopsJun 03 08:14
schestowitzAnd Dell is guided not just by UbuntuJun 03 08:14
fewanetbook requires ssdJun 03 08:15
schestowitzkentma: I bet Microsoft passed it to them.Jun 03 08:15
schestowitzSome fluff about their wares running on multiple MS platformsJun 03 08:15
schestowitzNot the first time BTW. It's endemic.Jun 03 08:15
schestowitzfewa: na... Windows ducks with SSDsJun 03 08:16
schestowitz*sucksJun 03 08:16
fewaahh, i just think it would be nice to be able to drop a netbookJun 03 08:16
fewaand not have it fryJun 03 08:16
schestowitzMuch riding on success _ or failure _ of Palm Pre  < http://ap.thecabin.net/pstories/technology/20090602/446338873.shtml >Jun 03 08:17
schestowitzWhat's with the underscores??Jun 03 08:17
fewahow about on linux? ssdsJun 03 08:17
fewaI know flash drives can be sooooo slowJun 03 08:18
schestowitzPerforms bettesJun 03 08:18
schestowitz*betterJun 03 08:18
schestowitzAnd still improving BTWJun 03 08:18
schestowitzNetcraft stats -- with all their flaws -- show Apache up in May 2009 and IIS down sharply.Jun 03 08:20
schestowitzF5 BIG-IP Hosts 10 Million Sites < http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/05/29/f5_bigip_hosts_10_million_sites.html >Jun 03 08:21
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Tallkenschestowitz, you there?Jun 03 08:47
schestowitzYesJun 03 08:49
schestowitzWhat's up?Jun 03 08:49
TallkenHave you noticed http://fastestfirefox.mozilla.com/ accepts video upload in .mov, .wmv and .mp4 ?Jun 03 08:51
Tallken*only in the formats .mov, .wmv and .mp4Jun 03 08:51
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schestowitzTallken: they don't care about freedomJun 03 08:58
schestowitzThey are Mac users for the most partJun 03 08:58
schestowitzThey also use iPods as prizesJun 03 08:58
oiaohmAnyone get the feeling that October 22 when windows 7 is release that some of the other companys might do the stomping on MS like google did with wave.Jun 03 08:59
TallkenI don't demand the support, but I'd appreciate a mention, I mean, maybe they're editing it with a proprietary app that doesn't support it, whatever, but they could *metion* why they don't support it, it'd be nice for a "company" that is implementing ogv support in Firefox 3.5.Jun 03 09:00
Tallkenwhat did Google do with Wave?Jun 03 09:00
oiaohmBing was released at a confernece Google follows it with wave and with slogan bing is not google.Jun 03 09:01
oiaohmBasically took over the PR game MS setup Tallken.Jun 03 09:01
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TallkenhumJun 03 09:02
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TallkenRight on time for Ubuntu 9.10Jun 03 09:02
TallkenThing is I do hope they do a very polished release on 9.10Jun 03 09:03
oiaohmAnd should be right on time for arm smartbooks too.Jun 03 09:03
fewaI like mozillaJun 03 09:04
fewaive been waiting for a good arm netbokJun 03 09:05
fewaoiaohm, google also get passive agressive with its term "modern browser"Jun 03 09:06
fewaon IE/MSJun 03 09:06
oiaohmGoogle wants to release web 2.0 as it called.Jun 03 09:06
oiaohmMs really does not want to.Jun 03 09:06
fewams will only implament what they have toJun 03 09:06
fewathey say how great IE 8 is but it doesnt implament any of the enabling standards like <canvas>Jun 03 09:07
oiaohmHaving applications in web pages be cross platform and working offline is really risky to ms.Jun 03 09:07
oiaohmAllows lots of new web based players into there groupware and email market.Jun 03 09:07
oiaohmBasically the web is one of the future platform netural application paths.Jun 03 09:08
fewathats why they are pushing IE 8 so hardJun 03 09:08
oiaohmYep there ass is on fire and they know it.Jun 03 09:08
TallkenI like offline apps, thank you very muchJun 03 09:08
fewacause it make the current web more usable while not implamenting anything more that would enable new web appsJun 03 09:08
Tallkenweb 2.0 is... well, it's too volatile for meJun 03 09:09
TallkenI use Gmail but mainly POP3 client and Google Reader because none of the RSS readers I've used worked flawlesslyJun 03 09:10
fewaI dont like the loss of controlJun 03 09:10
fewarunning a propritary web app is even more dangerous than propritary software, as they have your data tooJun 03 09:10
oiaohmPaying for a MS hosted exchange is not dangerous either fewa?Jun 03 09:11
oiaohmThe danger of data loss has been here.Jun 03 09:11
TallkenhumJun 03 09:11
oiaohmWeb 2.0 I see more useful inside business running there own servers.Jun 03 09:12
oiaohmPeople want to run apple Linux windows xp windows vista windows ce android...  Ok something to get everyone on the same page.Jun 03 09:12
fewaoiaohm, gmail is very good at being open with IMAP and POP4Jun 03 09:12
oiaohmRunning mixed OS networks is a pain in ass at moment at times.Jun 03 09:13
schestowitzoiaohm:  it can be more secureJun 03 09:14
schestowitzWhile it complicates patching it creating diversityJun 03 09:14
schestowitzHarder for worms to propagateJun 03 09:14
oiaohmExactly schestowitz why I want to be able todo it simply.Jun 03 09:15
oiaohmWith the least headaches to users on keeping applications and the like synced.Jun 03 09:15
oiaohmIf web 2.0 designers follow the google wave design everything will be fairly nice.   Since everyone is free to run there own interface servers to store there data.Jun 03 09:16
oiaohmSome of the web 2.0 applications will be better than others for how they treat data.Jun 03 09:16
oiaohmIts like all things Tallken its not the tech that is evil its the implementor using the tech.Jun 03 09:17
fewa^^Jun 03 09:17
TallkenyahJun 03 09:17
oiaohmIt going to be a interesting ride to say the least.Jun 03 09:18
TallkenI trust neither Google nor MS, however I use Google apps, for now...Jun 03 09:18
oiaohmIf I had to choose out of MS or Google to protect by back and I had to pick one I would pick Google at least they try to do the right thing.Jun 03 09:19
oiaohmNot that I would be trusting google 100 percent.Jun 03 09:20
oiaohmIf more google stuff like doc end up implemented that companies can run there own internal servers of it.  They will be good for business.  Opps MS office is borked on this machine no problem use the website backup.Jun 03 09:22
fewa<schestowitz>MS was seen as the white knight by some in the early 80s (battling evil IBM)Jun 03 09:22
oiaohmThere is a difference between Google and MS back then.Jun 03 09:24
schestowitzoiaohm: Wave will get pluginsJun 03 09:24
schestowitzIt's open sourceJun 03 09:24
schestowitzAnd support contracts with users of WaveJun 03 09:24
schestowitzSo it's an opener, more reciprocal processJun 03 09:24
oiaohmMS was only PR spin.   Really was doing no actions to showing any signs of freedom.Jun 03 09:24
schestowitzNot bad as a business model, either. WOrks for Red Hat.Jun 03 09:25
fewaits a new protocol designed to becoe pervasive, and promote the web platformJun 03 09:25
oiaohmGoogle also depends on the web for income.Jun 03 09:25
oiaohmWorst thing for google if wave turns around and kills it maker.Jun 03 09:26
fewaMS also got its market because of bill gate's mom was on the board of IBMJun 03 09:26
fewaAFAIKJun 03 09:26
schestowitzoiaohm: like MaemoJun 03 09:26
schestowitzIn Nokia's caseJun 03 09:26
schestowitzfewa: Board?Jun 03 09:26
schestowitzI thought she just knew someone from IBMJun 03 09:26
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fewawell you know how things spreadJun 03 09:27
oiaohmI remember a commentator in 2001 said about the only way google is going to die is if by some bad luck google creates something that kills themselves.Jun 03 09:28
fewaTheir biggest asset is dataJun 03 09:28
fewathey have more market data than anyone elseJun 03 09:28
MinceRgeekingsJun 03 09:28
oiaohmHi MinceRJun 03 09:29
fewathats why they push analytics so hardJun 03 09:29
fewaperhapsJun 03 09:29
fewathey managed to get on most pagesJun 03 09:31
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oiaohmhttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/free-one-year-technet-plus-subscription.ars  << Hmm This is just seaming desperate.Jun 03 09:32
fewaCurrently, the expiration date reads "1/1/1900" but Microsoft is working on fixing that.Jun 03 09:37
fewalolJun 03 09:37
fewaat least it doesnt read 1/1/1970 :PJun 03 09:38
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oiaohmQualcomm is not finshed the snapdragon chipset yet.  I have the sneeky feeling ASUS was planing to spring it latter on.   And Qualcomm wanted to display there product.Jun 03 09:44
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fewalol the order page is broken in firefoxJun 03 09:50
schestowitz*LOL*Jun 03 09:50
schestowitz"BING = But Its Not GoogleJun 03 09:51
schestowitz"Jun 03 09:51
schestowitzoiaohm: about Qualcomm, care to elaborate?Jun 03 09:52
MinceRi wonder if they'll claim that's better with windows tooJun 03 10:00
MinceR"it's better with windows, except for the whole doesn't-even-boot thing"Jun 03 10:00
schestowitzXandros: “We Are Kind of Getting Away from Being a Linux Company” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/corel-xandros-dot-net-presto/ >Jun 03 10:09
MinceRkind of? :DJun 03 10:18
oiaohmQualcomm still wants to update the video card intergrated into chip so it can do full HD.Jun 03 10:19
oiaohmBasically snapdragon chipset showed is not how powerful the final one is going to be schestowitz.Jun 03 10:24
schestowitzGeneral Electric Healthcare Calls Patent Trolling “Extortion” (Plus Other Patent News) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/ge-healthcare-vs-trolls/ >Jun 03 10:44
oiaohmI got that from watching and listing careful to the video taken at the Qualcomm stand with the Asus laptop.   They were displaying 7Xxi something Final chip would do 1080i.  So it was a prototype on display.Jun 03 10:48
schestowitzhttp://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_627708.html "While WeatherWise's process runs on a computer, Warsaw said he and Bilski opted against citing that machine in their patent application. "Should we have? It's 20-20 hindsight," he said, but he pointed out that their method could be worked out using a pencil and paper."Jun 03 10:48
schestowitzoiaohm: yeah, well..Jun 03 10:49
oiaohmNote if Qualcomm had not said who it was there was nothing on the device that said it was ASUS either .  It was a clean skin.Jun 03 10:49
schestowitzI think the intersection b/w PCs and phones here is showingJun 03 10:49
schestowitzx86 tries to be trimmer in ticksJun 03 10:49
schestowitzARM fattens a littleJun 03 10:49
schestowitzOr brings/pulls in trimmer distrosJun 03 10:49
oiaohmIe I think Qualcomm put there foot in it for ASUS.Jun 03 10:49
schestowitzlike xfce on moblinJun 03 10:49
schestowitzThen they have a duel in middle groundsJun 03 10:50
schestowitzNot phone, not PC....Jun 03 10:50
oiaohmWe are going to have the single OS home.Jun 03 10:50
schestowitzMaybe.Jun 03 10:50
oiaohmWhere you tv you phone your computer are all the same thing.Jun 03 10:50
oiaohmAt the path everything appears to be on.Jun 03 10:50
schestowitzRed Hat's patents are leading to some issues. http://www.openamq.org/doc:user-2-basicJun 03 10:50
oiaohmReally it will simplerfy the electronics.Jun 03 10:51
oiaohmLean one thing operate them all.Jun 03 10:51
schestowitzSeems like the natural pathJun 03 10:51
schestowitzonvergenceJun 03 10:51
schestowitzBut it was tried for agesJun 03 10:51
schestowitzMost people still use TVJun 03 10:51
schestowitzand watch the consoleJun 03 10:51
schestowitzAin't THAT fragmenttaionJun 03 10:51
schestowitzDRM-enabled boxes that are just another PCJun 03 10:51
schestowitzDuplicityJun 03 10:51
schestowitzPre's WebOS for phones... Jun 03 10:52
oiaohmconsoles could be next.Jun 03 10:52
schestowitzLooks nice..Jun 03 10:52
schestowitzMicrosoft failed to merge unitsJun 03 10:52
schestowitzRememeber their deal with Ford?Jun 03 10:52
schestowitzWhere does it stand?Jun 03 10:52
schestowitzNowhereJun 03 10:52
schestowitzThe auto industry goes into the ashtray, esp. US automakersJun 03 10:53
schestowitzIntel and Wind River have yet to expose their Linux work for automobiles.Jun 03 10:53
oiaohmNote its gplv2 or latter.Jun 03 10:53
fewathat would be greatJun 03 10:53
fewabut it needs gpl 3 IMHOJun 03 10:54
oiaohmThey can reversion it up to gplv3 any time they want.Jun 03 10:54
fewacars are horribleJun 03 10:54
fewaso much lock inJun 03 10:54
schestowitzGreat question about Linux.com: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25444/1148/  I've wondered the same thing.Jun 03 10:54
fewahttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/18/EDLD17LEO9.DTL&type=autosJun 03 10:55
schestowitzLinuxFoundation should just redirect to Linux.comJun 03 10:55
schestowitzThey should merge the sitesJun 03 10:55
schestowitzUnless Linux.com is for the productJun 03 10:55
schestowitzAnd LinuxFoundation the 'company' or umbrellaJun 03 10:55
schestowitzLike Automattic and WordPressJun 03 10:55
schestowitzMicrosoft and WindowsJun 03 10:55
schestowitzGoogle and Google SearchJun 03 10:56
schestowitzImagine going to google.com and having no search...Jun 03 10:56
schestowitzNow that would be interewstingJun 03 10:56
fewalolJun 03 10:56
schestowitz"Welcome to Google.."Jun 03 10:56
schestowitz"Here at Google we have a variety of products. Click here for search.."Jun 03 10:56
schestowitzA but like Yahoo.com, no?Jun 03 10:56
fewait still has a boxJun 03 10:56
fewayahoo's model worked really well in japanJun 03 10:57
oiaohmlinux foundation has a few products.Jun 03 10:57
schestowitzLSB?Jun 03 10:57
schestowitzGit?Jun 03 10:57
schestowitzWird productsJun 03 10:57
oiaohmLSB moblin and others.Jun 03 10:57
schestowitzIt's not even a companyJun 03 10:57
schestowitz*weirdJun 03 10:57
fewastill dont see the point linux.comJun 03 10:57
schestowitzIt's just an office with people assigned by some companiesJun 03 10:58
oiaohmlinux.com could be better used.Jun 03 10:58
schestowitzYesJun 03 10:58
schestowitzLinux;.com is about the brandJun 03 10:58
fewathey showed up at a linux fest i went toJun 03 10:58
oiaohmLinux.com is a marketing experment.Jun 03 10:58
fewahanded out stickersJun 03 10:58
schestowitzThe com[mercial] Linux productJun 03 10:58
schestowitzThey didn't like Linux.com rewpresenting themJun 03 10:58
fewa^^Jun 03 10:58
schestowitzLinux.com was used by Byfield to attack us (BN)Jun 03 10:58
fewayeah SFJun 03 10:59
schestowitzWill they also scoop up www.linux.org?Jun 03 10:59
schestowitzSF...Jun 03 10:59
schestowitzSponsored by MSJun 03 10:59
schestowitzFact.Jun 03 10:59
schestowitzIn partJun 03 10:59
schestowitzSF took MS moneyJun 03 10:59
schestowitzThen advertised Visual StudioJun 03 10:59
fewaslashdot with all the MS articlesJun 03 10:59
schestowitzAnd also presented "most likely to be sued" award.Jun 03 10:59
schestowitzBastardsJun 03 10:59
schestowitzfewa: I dumped SlashdotJun 03 11:00
fewalots of MS advertisingJun 03 11:00
schestowitzIt's riggedJun 03 11:00
schestowitzRuined like DiggJun 03 11:00
fewareally?Jun 03 11:00
fewathey did misrepresent their CoI on a adobe dmca/SF articleJun 03 11:01
schestowitzLinux v2.6.30 is almost here http://www.linuxhq.com/kernel/v2.6/30-rc8/index.html rc8 now...Jun 03 11:01
fewathat pissehttp://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/05/22/1254246/Adobe-Uses-DMCA-On-Protocol-It-Promised-To-OpenJun 03 11:02
schestowitzfewa: don't know..Jun 03 11:02
fewalike google much better on DMCA as it says it got a DMCAJun 03 11:02
fewand then forwards to chillingeffectsJun 03 11:03
oiaohmhttp://lkml.org/lkml/2009/6/3/3  Hmm really  close linus says this weekend schestowitzJun 03 11:03
schestowitzYes, I knowJun 03 11:04
schestowitzFedora 11 has .29Jun 03 11:05
schestowitzhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureListJun 03 11:05
fewahttp://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_30Jun 03 11:09
schestowitzSome companies are still trying to push DRM into Linux: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090601006240&newsLang=enJun 03 11:10
schestowitzWindows has none of these "Architecture-specific changes" http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_30#head-682c73c12d5423b372cc8f926390c1e4944c0518Jun 03 11:12
fewai wonder how pagerank and search engines deal with redirectorsJun 03 11:13
fewai guess they are still trying to keep windows multi-platform capable? or have they given upJun 03 11:15
schestowitz"RP @schestowitz: Some companies are still trying to push DRM into Linux: http://htxt.it/nGOc This embedded DRM is a scary idea that needs to be nipped in the bud. Information is always more important than the person who publishes it."Jun 03 11:16
oiaohmgenirq: add threaded interrupt handler support   << Something so critical to performance classed as completely not important a kernel newbies.Jun 03 11:17
schestowitzI am more concerned that Ts'o, an IBMer, Debian/freedom basher and LF CTO wants DRM tooJun 03 11:17
fewaand without GPL3 it would still have DMCA teethJun 03 11:18
fewaughhhJun 03 11:18
schestowitz*LOL*Jun 03 11:18
schestowitz"jlundstocholmHmmm ... join an OOXML-twibe founded by @rcweir - why am I feeling reluctant? ;o) A bit like joining a Novell-twibe founded by @schestowitz"Jun 03 11:18
schestowitzThe Microsoft shills don't like meJun 03 11:18
oiaohmDRI2 makes Digital Rights more possiable on Linux.Jun 03 11:18
oiaohmSince you can basically directly talk to video card from userspace.Jun 03 11:19
schestowitz /s/Rights/Restrictions/Jun 03 11:19
schestowitzIt's about taking away rights (from users)Jun 03 11:19
oiaohmRights for whoJun 03 11:19
fewaits not about rightsJun 03 11:19
oiaohmRights for content users none for end users.Jun 03 11:19
schestowitzAll rights reserved :-)Jun 03 11:19
fewathe ability to take away freedom is not a rightJun 03 11:19
oiaohmDepends on your point of view fewaJun 03 11:20
schestowitzThe right to right[sic] the lawJun 03 11:20
fewabut DRM is not part of the lawJun 03 11:20
oiaohmlack of a threaded interrupt handler causes Linux a lot of lag problems.Jun 03 11:21
schestowitzAndroid taken out of Google's hands to make some Linux devices: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090601005589&newsLang=en Fork powa'?Jun 03 11:21
fewaconversely it could be called Digital rights enforcementJun 03 11:21
fewabut not "management"Jun 03 11:21
schestowitzDepends on who is managerJun 03 11:21
schestowitzVista the managerJun 03 11:22
schestowitzOr Warner the managerJun 03 11:22
fewaif they called it enforcer then people might realize what is upJun 03 11:22
schestowitzSome Real sh*. http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10254125-1.htmlJun 03 11:23
oiaohmDRM tech all depends who is in control fewaJun 03 11:23
fewaexactlyJun 03 11:23
oiaohmDRM was first design as you the owner of the machine in control.Jun 03 11:23
fewapeople might realize that government has rubber stamped enforcement by private enterpriseJun 03 11:24
oiaohmYou in control there is nothing wrong with DRM.Jun 03 11:24
oiaohmYou own you machine you may not want particular files leaking so its fine.Jun 03 11:24
fewabut people need to be informed of the limitations imposed by the machinesJun 03 11:25
oiaohmTech is tech unfortuanlly.Jun 03 11:25
fewanot lied toJun 03 11:25
oiaohmCan be used for good can be used for evil.Jun 03 11:25
oiaohmJust like a bullet it can be used to kill or save a live.  All depend on who is using it.Jun 03 11:25
oiaohmThere does need to be more truth about the use of DRM.Jun 03 11:26
schestowitz"@al3xbrown Roy does seem to have some balance in the amount he talks about ODF vs OOXML, unlike someone that comes to mind. See Google."Jun 03 11:29
schestowitzLOLJun 03 11:29
schestowitzThe shills are getting desperateJun 03 11:29
oiaohmOk this is good you will like this.   Sun plugin for odf support in ms office is now Openoffice 3.1Jun 03 11:30
oiaohmWraped in side.Jun 03 11:30
oiaohmI think the shills are working out you are here to stay schestowitz.Jun 03 11:33
oiaohmAfter those pricks attempts failed getting rid of you is going to be extreamly hard.Jun 03 11:34
oiaohmI find it good that people are starting to talk about the break up of the wintel agreement.Jun 03 11:37
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/news/NS4902128757.html  << Hello car invansion.Jun 03 11:40
oiaohmIts going to get hard to get away from LinuxJun 03 11:41
schestowitzHeh. Good timing..Jun 03 11:46
schestowitzCars again.Jun 03 11:46
schestowitzSee http://linux.com/community/blogs/Bing-is-not-Google-but-it-is-a-spin-engine.-14904.htmlJun 03 11:47
schestowitzIt's about how Microsoft spreads propaganda, disguised as 'search engine'Jun 03 11:48
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/060309-microsoft-wont-offer-windows-for.html  Hmm anyone thing MS is death wishing here.Jun 03 11:49
oiaohmx86 laptops just will not be in the same class as smartbooks.Jun 03 11:49
schestowitzOf course notJun 03 11:50
schestowitzBUTJun 03 11:50
schestowitzMicrosoft wants to just kill low-cost PCsJun 03 11:50
schestowitzNot become part of itJun 03 11:51
schestowitzPrepare for -- as PJ says --  a Microsoft smear attack against "underpowered" ARM devicesJun 03 11:51
schestowitzThey might use other companies and 'independent' people to recite thisJun 03 11:52
fewalol type in linux into bing and see the suggestionsJun 03 11:53
schestowitzI never went into that siteJun 03 11:53
schestowitzNot interestedJun 03 11:53
fewawindows, microsoft, vistaJun 03 11:53
oiaohmbing has already been banned in a lot of places for being bias.Jun 03 11:54
oiaohmThis is what I was getting about google.  Ok you want to search for something bad about google with there search engine go ahead.Jun 03 11:55
oiaohmNow looking up information on there staff members that is a different mattter.Jun 03 11:55
oiaohmhttp://hemlock-kills.com/  sometimes you wonder what was going through a open source projects mind when they named the project.Jun 03 11:59
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MinceR"I like the taste of hemlock in the morning."Jun 03 12:08
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*schestowitz gettin' hungryJun 03 12:13
fewai just ate some tasty pinappleJun 03 12:15
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mtnd3whelloJun 03 12:16
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schestowitzMicrosoft Folks Rewrite ODF’s History and Build Anti-  ODF Social Network < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/anti-odf-social-network/ >Jun 03 12:31
fewaschestowitz, sounds about rightJun 03 12:37
fewao god, in firefox you cant stop animate faviconsJun 03 12:38
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schestowitzAMD Begins Shipping Six-Core Opteron < http://www.internetnews.com/hardware/article.php/3822956/ > Avoid Intel, don't pay those who commit crimes.Jun 03 12:40
schestowitzfewa: yeah, FF doesn't offer such an optionJun 03 12:40
schestowitzRivals of FOSS are spreading FUD about mysql. Don't believe any of it: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7342/Jun 03 12:43
fewathere is a old bug on itJun 03 12:43
schestowitzThe chip?Jun 03 12:43
schestowitzOr mysql?Jun 03 12:43
fewafaviconsJun 03 12:44
fewawhat are they trying to sell instead of mysql?Jun 03 12:45
MinceRamd is far from perfectJun 03 12:49
MinceRfor example, gpu driver support :>Jun 03 12:49
schestowitzWant a Linux.com email address? It'll cost $99 <  http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/06/want-a-linuxcom-email-address.html > Is this their business model?Jun 03 12:53
schestowitzfewa: other DBsJun 03 12:54
fewabut which ones?Jun 03 12:54
fewawhat ones are any good?Jun 03 12:55
fewaand SQL ones only, or the whole schebang?Jun 03 12:55
fewapostgresql is the one that many seem to use these daysJun 03 12:55
fewafor a free oneJun 03 12:55
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schestowitz< http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2942 > Microsoft offers "incentives" for Windows. Not anti-competitive? You decide.Jun 03 13:00
fewaa company can provide all the incentives it wants, they just cant be based on the boycott of opposing products or tyingJun 03 13:02
schestowitzMary-Jo Foley is pushing a lot of MS PR at the momentJun 03 13:02
schestowitzYou can tell by the themes with MS is worried aboutJun 03 13:02
schestowitzThere's the Bong AstroTurfJun 03 13:02
schestowitzAnd anti-Linux, eps. on netbooksJun 03 13:02
fewabut that article was completely uselessJun 03 13:02
fewaand the "Update!!!!", seems like PR junkJun 03 13:03
schestowitzYesJun 03 13:04
schestowitzIt's Mary-Jo PRJun 03 13:04
schestowitzThey are desparateJun 03 13:04
schestowitzAll the MS bloggers drop like fliesJun 03 13:04
schestowitzJoe Wilcox, Jo T, etc.Jun 03 13:04
schestowitzShe's one of the few leftrJun 03 13:05
schestowitzAnd she has her own comainJun 03 13:05
schestowitzIn case ZDNet goes under tooJun 03 13:05
schestowitzWhich is likelyJun 03 13:05
schestowitzMJ's site: microsofttracker.comJun 03 13:05
schestowitzShe used to be in MS-WatchJun 03 13:05
schestowitzMS-Watch diedJun 03 13:06
schestowitzThe "economy" killed itJun 03 13:06
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schestowitzOr rather, the  "economy" killed MS, so the site loses relevanceJun 03 13:06
zer0c00lDoes any one  here knows methods to get a ssh key of a broadband modem device?Jun 03 13:07
schestowitzh/w...Jun 03 13:07
schestowitzssh key?Jun 03 13:07
schestowitzin H/W?Jun 03 13:07
zer0c00lyaaaaJun 03 13:07
zer0c00lhardware deviceJun 03 13:08
fewazer0c00l, you have to log in as rootJun 03 13:08
schestowitzI am not a h/w person. But two cores are far more than sufficient for anything you might ever need to do on GNU/Linux, so I'm an old h/w usuallyJun 03 13:08
zer0c00lfewa, but it only shows menu oriented interface, not a shellJun 03 13:08
zer0c00l:(Jun 03 13:08
fewazer0c00l, use nmapJun 03 13:08
fewawhat is it?Jun 03 13:08
fewathey are all differntJun 03 13:08
zer0c00la ADSL modemJun 03 13:08
zer0c00lnmap is for portscanning right?Jun 03 13:09
fewaaww geeze an ancient POSJun 03 13:09
zer0c00lyaaJun 03 13:09
fewanot worth itJun 03 13:09
fewahttp://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9634061300.htmlJun 03 13:09
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fewaor other similar devicesJun 03 13:11
schestowitzCheck this out: http://www.h-online.com/open/Linux-Foundation-revamps-individual-membership-deal--/news/113437 Where before did I hear about the farmer's grain and doubling rate? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFESMAU58Jun 03 13:12
schestowitzThey double the price of membership nowJun 03 13:12
schestowitzLinux.com scammers...Jun 03 13:12
zer0c00lschestowitz, yepJun 03 13:13
schestowitzThe kernel foundation I call them... IBM front for the most partJun 03 13:13
schestowitzThey do a lot of great things, tooJun 03 13:13
schestowitzWe're testing this self-proclaimed charity that promote Microsoft now...Jun 03 13:15
schestowitzSomeone just told me:Jun 03 13:15
schestowitz It's always jam yesterday and jam tomorrow, but never jam today> I will wait, but I bet this will happen, he won't get back to me, IJun 03 13:16
schestowitz> will email them again, they will say xxx had left the company and theyJun 03 13:16
schestowitz> are waiting on a new volunteer recruitment staff, wait two montths andJun 03 13:16
schestowitz> apply again.Jun 03 13:16
schestowitzThere's this CAI establishment where they pretend to take people inJun 03 13:16
schestowitzThey profiteer from 'charity'Jun 03 13:16
schestowitzSeems pseudo-charity for the most part...Jun 03 13:17
schestowitzMaybe we'll  post a testimony anonymously in BN.Jun 03 13:17
schestowitzA lot of charities are fakeJun 03 13:17
schestowitzThere are interests in themJun 03 13:17
schestowitzHuman nature suggests that reciprocity often drives altruism and good deedsJun 03 13:17
schestowitzIt's a genetic thingJun 03 13:17
schestowitzLike survival skillJun 03 13:17
schestowitzSame for the Gates FOundationJun 03 13:17
schestowitzSelf-congratulatory tax-evading  schemeJun 03 13:18
schestowitzBut it's holyJun 03 13:18
schestowitzYou can't ever criticise itJun 03 13:18
schestowitzThey'll only ever show you some black kids with melinda FrenchJun 03 13:19
schestowitzTwo years ago Acer's CEO said the whole industry hates Vista. Now they go ARM+Linux < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4404.html >Jun 03 13:22
schestowitzWait.. maybe it's x86..Jun 03 13:22
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schestowitzDeceptive Pricing At CompUSA < http://ever-increasing-entropy.blogspot.com/2009/06/deceptive-pricing-at-compusa.html > I thought they had gone out of business by now.Jun 03 13:23
schestowitzKDE4 adds sub-notebooks focus: http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/first_glance_at_kde_4_in_netbook_contextJun 03 13:26
fewarebates are scamsJun 03 13:29
fewathey never send you the moneyJun 03 13:30
schestowitz How You Can Protect Linux and Get YourName@Linux.com < http://linux.com/news/featured-blogs/167-amanda-mcpherson/15303-how-you-can-protect-linux-and-get-yournamelinuxcom > "Protect Linux"??? What does that mean?Jun 03 13:32
schestowitz"Partner Discounts"Jun 03 13:32
schestowitz"    *  35% of O’Reilly Books and E-BooksJun 03 13:33
schestowitz    * 20% Off O’Reilly’s Open Source Convention (OSCON)Jun 03 13:33
schestowitz    * 35% of No Starch Press PublicationsJun 03 13:33
schestowitz    * 15% off Subscription to Linux JournalJun 03 13:33
schestowitz    * 15% off Neuros Technologies NeurosLink. The Neuros LINK allows you to watch internettv (Hulu, Youtube) as well as downloads on your TV using Linux.Jun 03 13:33
schestowitz    * 50% off Southern California Linux Expo (SCALE)Jun 03 13:33
schestowitz    * $10 off every $40 order on Thinkgeek (excluding shipping and taxes)Jun 03 13:33
schestowitz"Jun 03 13:33
schestowitz*LOL*Jun 03 13:33
schestowitzSo basically they pimp the "Linux" trademark/brandJun 03 13:33
schestowitzBut those who are paid are not exactly GNU/Linux peopleJun 03 13:33
schestowitzThis is WEIRDJun 03 13:33
schestowitzAren't they already funded by LF members?Jun 03 13:34
schestowitzAlso, they had prior such things like donations that raised question. Is it chairity? Commercial? What is this?Jun 03 13:34
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schestowitzhttp://linux.com/news/featured-blogs/176-linus-torvalds/13533-yet-more-readingJun 03 13:35
schestowitzWeird..Jun 03 13:35
schestowitzThe site I mean..Jun 03 13:35
oiaohmStatus normal.Jun 03 13:36
oiaohmLinux foundation always has had all forms of strange discounts for members.Jun 03 13:36
oiaohmThose groups agree to give discounts to Linux foundation members.  No charge to the Linux foundation to be correct most give donations to the Linux foundation for it.    In exchnage they get advertising.Jun 03 13:38
fewaof course thats how discounts workJun 03 13:38
oiaohmIt is basically income.Jun 03 13:39
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fewahttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=175433&cid=14587170Jun 03 13:41
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schestowitz"In sane, civilized countries, like Finland for example, this practice is blatantly illegal.Jun 03 13:45
schestowitzOver here you cannot advertise a discount, unless it is based on an actual retail price that the product has actually been sold for prior to the discount in the same store. Failure to follow the law carries steep fines."Jun 03 13:45
schestowitzfewa: replying might be worth to point out that laws are not about "In sane, civilized"Jun 03 13:45
schestowitzLaws are rulesJun 03 13:45
schestowitzNot ethical rulesJun 03 13:45
schestowitzJust rules to decide which owners get how muchJun 03 13:45
schestowitzCollision between people's freedom is policedJun 03 13:46
fewayes i agree, but consumer protection is niceJun 03 13:46
schestowitzBy the 'lesser people' can be 'collided with' mor easilyJun 03 13:46
schestowitzLike some 19 year-old cancer patient sued by the RIAAJun 03 13:46
fewano, the RIAA sued 50 cancer patients in a does suitJun 03 13:47
MinceRthere are sane and civilized countries on Earth?Jun 03 13:47
fewaon differnt evidenceJun 03 13:47
fewawhich didnt actually show that copyright infringement took placeJun 03 13:47
oiaohmDefine sane MinceRJun 03 13:48
MinceRi didn't use the word, they didJun 03 13:48
oiaohmAustralian laws here are sane just not applied.Jun 03 13:48
fewaoiaohm, which ones?Jun 03 13:48
oiaohmFair tradingJun 03 13:49
fewalaws are like stew, there are and endless number of themJun 03 13:49
schestowitzWhat the heck is Lisa doing? http://ostatic.com/blog/vidoop-goes-ten-rounds-with-grim-reaper Almost every single post from her is not about FOSS at all.Jun 03 13:49
fewathe US code is so large that the US government itsself cannot even count the number of lawsJun 03 13:49
schestowitzMinceR: try MarsJun 03 13:49
schestowitzAll the populations there are civilisedJun 03 13:49
schestowitz0>=0Jun 03 13:49
MinceRsadly, it's an empty setJun 03 13:50
oiaohmMost of the australian main a laws fall under keep it simple stupid.Jun 03 13:50
oiaohmUsa makes there laws too complex for there own good.Jun 03 13:50
schestowitzThe most screwed up populations in Earth are not humansJun 03 13:51
schestowitzBut they have no voiceJun 03 13:51
fewahmm, week judiciary there in Australia then oiaohm ?Jun 03 13:51
oiaohmMore enforcement arm not pushing cases.Jun 03 13:51
schestowitzWhen human civilisation is overpopulated, then those other populations (flora and fauna) might get a break. They will be "an empty set)Jun 03 13:51
oiaohmLot of time get before judge will get hammeredJun 03 13:52
oiaohmAnti-computer crime laws here is so simple.   "Any alteration to a computer without approval of the owner is a crime with a max punishment of 15 years jail."   That is the some total of the laws.Jun 03 13:54
schestowitzJava Applications shop is here: Sun Execs Debut Java App Store < http://ostatic.com/blog/sun-execs-debut-java-app-store >Jun 03 13:54
oiaohmKeep them short less loop holes.Jun 03 13:54
schestowitzLisa writes about Hemlock for a change, so some open source after all http://ostatic.com/blog/build-real-time-web-apps-with-hemlockJun 03 13:56
schestowitzEeeww.. it's Fog computingJun 03 13:56
schestowitzWith FlashJun 03 13:56
schestowitz"Hemlock combines the scalability of XMPP and the flexibility of Flash to make real-time web-based actions more, well, real-time."Jun 03 13:56
oiaohmYepJun 03 13:58
oiaohmHopefully disappears into the vappor with better javascript support.Jun 03 13:59
schestowitzBlindfolded Apple fans with grammar issue in the headline (not that it matters): http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/06/03/the-effs-oddly-informed-war-apples-iphone-apps/ Jun 03 14:02
schestowitzHe's quite right about Palm though: "And so it is that an ineffectually weak company has desperately come scratching at Apple’s door for to associate itself with the iPhone’s popularity, to access its openly shared technology, and to support Apple’s Mac platform and the use of iTunes, and the only way the clucking nests of pundits" http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/30/the-imagined-war-between-apple-and-palm-pre-vs-iphone/Jun 03 14:03
schestowitzJesusphone hypeJun 03 14:03
schestowitzThey pay celebrities to use itJun 03 14:04
schestowitzIn music videos for example, for all I can gatherJun 03 14:04
schestowitzHmm.. picture broke.. http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/05/30/the-imagined-war-between-apple-and-palm-pre-vs-iphone/Jun 03 14:05
schestowitzBroken in the source too: http://cyrilleberger.blogspot.com/2009/05/koffice-200.htmlJun 03 14:06
oiaohmThey are handling koffice 2.0 better than they handled kde 4.0Jun 03 14:07
oiaohm0 in kde line have alway been by tradition tech previews.Jun 03 14:08
oiaohmMajor thing is not all parts work kexi and formular editer is still missing from koffice 2.0Jun 03 14:09
oiaohmKexi is the part of koffice I use the most.Jun 03 14:09
schestowitzCuba Smolders Over Microsoft Messenger Withdrawal < http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/67217.html >. Just the AP report again. ECT is reusing reportsJun 03 14:13
schestowitzMaybe I should write some more about Microsoft's behind-the-scene tacticsJun 03 14:13
schestowitzThey do this atg the moment (again)Jun 03 14:13
schestowitzIf anyone is following the latest in re Bilski development, Groklaw has full text http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090601233512914Jun 03 14:15
oiaohmCould be interesting if it goes the right way a lot of patents will be no more.Jun 03 14:17
taconehttp://thenextweb.com/2009/06/02/microsoft-forcing-bing-ie6-users/Jun 03 14:21
schestowitzWell, criminals rarely change their waysJun 03 14:22
schestowitzThe remedy is decommissionJun 03 14:22
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fewawhat does hp mean by "the Linux command line interface is disabled on this edition. "Jun 03 14:27
oiaohmYou can truly do that fewaJun 03 14:27
fewadoesnt make any senseJun 03 14:27
oiaohmWhat distribution is it.Jun 03 14:27
fewaMIJun 03 14:28
fewabased on ubuntuJun 03 14:28
oiaohmYep.Jun 03 14:28
oiaohmThat one can operate without bash.   So can be completely commandline less.Jun 03 14:28
fewathey removed bash?Jun 03 14:28
MinceRthey probably removed the link to the x terminal appJun 03 14:29
MinceRor the app itselfJun 03 14:29
fewayeahJun 03 14:30
fewaexactlyJun 03 14:30
fewaseems wierdJun 03 14:30
fewayou can probably just ctrl-f2 and type in xtermJun 03 14:30
oiaohmThat could be not there tooJun 03 14:30
oiaohmxterm is a optional program fewaJun 03 14:31
fewawell then, you could edit startup stuff to have a ttyJun 03 14:31
MinceRwell, they could have raped the system and removed all shellsJun 03 14:31
fewai just dont see why they wouldJun 03 14:31
MinceRbecause they're idiots?Jun 03 14:31
oiaohmIf you are not using the command line at all you don't need them.Jun 03 14:31
*schestowitz votes in http://www.stefanoforenza.com/which-ubuntu-do-you-use/Jun 03 14:32
MinceR"disabling" the "Linux command line interface" is certainly the stuff of idiocy.Jun 03 14:32
oiaohmOk after dri2 was out I could see it working.Jun 03 14:32
fewaoiaohm, yes, like ubuntu removes most CLI apps. but its impossible to remove sh for exampleJun 03 14:32
schestowitzit's like welding shut the cat's hoodJun 03 14:32
fewaso there is a shell somewhereJun 03 14:32
schestowitz*car'sJun 03 14:32
oiaohmfewa: incorrect I have built a distribution without sh.Jun 03 14:32
oiaohmCompletely shell less.Jun 03 14:33
MinceRubuntu removes most CLI apps?Jun 03 14:33
fewaMinceR, doesnt install by default many debian standard appsJun 03 14:33
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fewabut because of command-not-found they are really easy to installJun 03 14:34
schestowitzUbuntu suggests installationJun 03 14:34
fewacommand-not-found is brillientJun 03 14:34
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schestowitzSomething like "you don't have this program", run sudo aprt-get *Jun 03 14:34
schestowitz*aptJun 03 14:34
fewakiller usability improvementJun 03 14:34
schestowitzThis was made as a suggestion around 2006Jun 03 14:34
fewaeven for the most advanced usersJun 03 14:34
schestowitzHow about if it just installed it?Jun 03 14:35
schestowitzAs long as the program is smallJun 03 14:35
fewayeah that would be coolJun 03 14:35
schestowitzObtaining binaries on the flyJun 03 14:35
fewaor a virtual filesystem where everything is always installedJun 03 14:35
schestowitz> operaJun 03 14:35
fewaa program asks for a library/binary and it just arrivesJun 03 14:35
schestowitzNOT FOUND INtsll? [Y]Jun 03 14:35
schestowitzNot that Opera is in the universeJun 03 14:36
fewaschestowitz, i agree, but forcing user interface is not very unixyJun 03 14:36
fewacommand-not-found is just a useful error messageJun 03 14:37
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oiaohmWhy does Linux has to be unixyJun 03 14:40
MinceRbecause it's unixJun 03 14:40
MinceR(not in the open group trademark mismanagement sense, though)Jun 03 14:41
oiaohmReally it does not have to be.Jun 03 14:41
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MinceRwell, many have tried to come up with a better kind of OS and they've all failed.Jun 03 14:41
MinceRit's certainly possible, but hasn't happened.Jun 03 14:41
oiaohmThat is not exactly true.Jun 03 14:42
oiaohmProblem is how do you move a behemoth like MS.Jun 03 14:42
MinceRthere's only one place m$ needs to be movedJun 03 14:42
MinceRthe landfill.Jun 03 14:43
oiaohmMost of the competing desides died due to lack of programs and drivers.Jun 03 14:43
oiaohmBecause they were all locked to Windows.Jun 03 14:43
MinceRexamples?Jun 03 14:43
oiaohmBeOS was a great OS to use for audio work.  RTOS combinded with desktop had some really nice advantages.Jun 03 14:44
MinceRBeOS lacked a lot of important featuresJun 03 14:44
MinceRalso, it was somewhat unixy, afaikJun 03 14:44
oiaohmamigaJun 03 14:45
oiaohmThey died from there own closed application stupidity.Jun 03 14:45
MinceRamiga lacks the same stuffJun 03 14:45
oiaohmamiga let no one in.Jun 03 14:45
oiaohmTo add stuff other than amiga.Jun 03 14:45
MinceRapp bugs can rampage unhindered.Jun 03 14:45
oiaohmCompared to how NT was being treated amiga was stable.Jun 03 14:46
MinceRit's easy to find a better os than NT :>Jun 03 14:46
oiaohmThat is my point.Jun 03 14:46
MinceRit is?Jun 03 14:46
oiaohmThere were better solutions they all died.Jun 03 14:46
MinceRNT isn't unixJun 03 14:46
oiaohmIt was not vs unix that did it.Jun 03 14:47
oiaohmIt was head to head with windows.Jun 03 14:47
MinceRwell, gnu/linux did head to head vs windows pretty wellJun 03 14:47
oiaohmBasically none of them grew up to there full form.Jun 03 14:47
MinceRso it must have done something better than those othersJun 03 14:47
oiaohmLinux went a different path.Jun 03 14:47
oiaohmLinux avoided going head to head with MS for a long time.Jun 03 14:48
MinceRyes, the path of actually doing things rightJun 03 14:48
oiaohmUntil Linux had built up today where its basically strong enough not to be destoyed.Jun 03 14:48
oiaohmGoing into the server and super market saved linux.Jun 03 14:49
twittersaved it from what?Jun 03 14:49
MinceRso your point is that beos and amiga TOS are better than unix because they were never completed and thus nobody knows what they'd really be like?Jun 03 14:49
oiaohmBasically good tatics has kept Linux alive.Jun 03 14:49
twitterwhat do you mean?Jun 03 14:50
MinceRlinux was never about tacticsJun 03 14:50
twitterthe only threat to free software is M$Jun 03 14:50
twitterRed Hat was ready for people's desktop back in 1998 - M$ killed it through OEM and retail manipulationJun 03 14:51
oiaohmRedhat and other Linuxs would have been killed like the rest MinceR if they had not the server market to go into.Jun 03 14:52
oiaohmIf a Unix could have got up against MS simply the bsd were better placed for it than Linux.Jun 03 14:52
oiaohmerrors in design in the X11 stack has kept Unix releated out of the desktop too.Jun 03 14:53
twitterbullshit, ohmJun 03 14:53
twitterX11 has been better than M$ since 1984Jun 03 14:54
oiaohmOnly designing in support for 1 opengl context.  Do you call that wise.Jun 03 14:54
oiaohmLeaving server of X11 single thread so it cannot take adantage of duel cores was also not wise.Jun 03 14:54
twitterX11's built in network support, virtual desktop support and multi user support is superior to most graphics systemsJun 03 14:54
oiaohmI said errors in stack.Jun 03 14:55
oiaohmNot errors in design there is difference.Jun 03 14:55
twitterI've been using X11 for 10 years and it's been better.Jun 03 14:55
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oiaohmIts a lot better now that the threading got fixed.Jun 03 14:56
oiaohmReally threading design from 1970~ being used in 2002 was really not good.Jun 03 14:57
twitterQDoS is from the 70's, I'm not sure why people still use it.Jun 03 14:57
oiaohmApplication virtual round robin.Jun 03 14:57
schestowitzoiaohm: x has been very advanced in many areasJun 03 14:57
schestowitzLike alpha channelJun 03 14:58
schestowitzDon'y underestimate itJun 03 14:58
oiaohmIts been advanced but crimpled for a long time.Jun 03 14:58
MinceRoiaohm: gnu/linux didn't depend on the marketJun 03 14:58
twitterOhm just likes to say bad things about free software.Jun 03 14:58
schestowitzX could do AGES ago what Microsoft can still not do rightJun 03 14:58
schestowitzAlso the architecture as a sercerJun 03 14:58
MinceRoiaohm: it was only taken up by business _after_ it has proven its worthJun 03 14:58
twitterohm admits that the design of X is superior, he just likes to nit pick. it's so bad that he's probably making up the nits.Jun 03 14:59
oiaohmamiga and X11 in graphical features were well ahead of MS.Jun 03 14:59
schestowitzMS was ahead in dirty tricksJun 03 15:00
oiaohmRunning well X11 was crippled from doing that.Jun 03 15:00
twitterohm's basic spiel is to praise things from M$ and damn GNU and free software by picking on silly things all day.Jun 03 15:00
schestowitzNot reallyJun 03 15:00
schestowitzJust accentuating themJun 03 15:00
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twitterThat's basically what M$ does to create an impression of superiorityJun 03 15:01
oiaohmMS has done lots of stupid things.Jun 03 15:01
oiaohmYet for ages that has not been anything that would cause them to lose.Jun 03 15:01
oiaohmShoudl have cause them to loss.Jun 03 15:01
twitterBut anyone who bothers to use M$ knows what a pile of crap it is.Jun 03 15:01
oiaohmBig thing MS got was vendor lockin.Jun 03 15:01
oiaohmSo in effect destroying everything that could go against them.Jun 03 15:01
oiaohmNo matter if it was better or not.Jun 03 15:02
oiaohmLinux avoided where MS had vendor lockin.Jun 03 15:02
twitterI think what he's trying to push right now is some notion of commercial dependence for free software.Jun 03 15:02
twitterSaying things like, "running on servers saved Linux"Jun 03 15:03
oiaohmSo out most the competition against MS Linux has managed to outlast until regulators and other things could be worked out.Jun 03 15:03
trmancoI might move to slrnJun 03 15:03
oiaohmServers required support from hardware companies twitter.Jun 03 15:03
trmancojust to read COLAJun 03 15:03
trmanco...Jun 03 15:03
trmancoThunderbird's filters need to get betterJun 03 15:03
twitterfree software does not depend on anything but people who use itJun 03 15:03
oiaohmWithout that lot of the base drivers that give Linux a chance today would not exist twitter.Jun 03 15:03
oiaohmSpecs and coders make life simpler twitter.Jun 03 15:04
twitteryou have the relationship reversed, companies depend on free softwareJun 03 15:04
oiaohmIts a join way releationship twitter.Jun 03 15:04
twitterthis is why they release drivers, everyone wins.Jun 03 15:04
oiaohmThere are many open source OS's.Jun 03 15:04
twitterthe only reason more companies have not come to the party is M$ punishmentJun 03 15:05
oiaohmSo why does Linux have the best driver support twitter.Jun 03 15:05
oiaohmOpen source gives them something and they give in return.Jun 03 15:05
twitterLinux has the best driver support because Linux has more developers than other software.Jun 03 15:05
oiaohmLarge section of those developers come from hardware companies twitter.Jun 03 15:06
twitterand yes, that's because free software offers everyone a better deal.Jun 03 15:06
MinceRand because the drivers can be improved by anyoneJun 03 15:06
MinceRexcept the proprietary crap, of courseJun 03 15:06
twitterSee what I told you, he's back to the Linux depends on commercial support lieJun 03 15:06
oiaohmLets say instead of chosing Linux they choose BSD twitter.Jun 03 15:06
fewawith xdm X11 is blazingly fastJun 03 15:06
MinceRone would expect them to run to bsdJun 03 15:07
MinceRthey don'tJun 03 15:07
twitternow he's trying to start a BSD flame warJun 03 15:07
fewai mean xcbJun 03 15:07
MinceRprobably because *bsd was never anywhere near as good as gnu/linuxJun 03 15:07
twitterGPL has things that people like ohm.Jun 03 15:07
oiaohmThe simple point is part luck and part good licence that created Linux were it is.Jun 03 15:08
twitterIt's freedom and copyleft, ohmJun 03 15:08
MinceRyou're forgetting the most important partsJun 03 15:08
MinceRgood engineering and a good base designJun 03 15:08
oiaohmHave you read early Linux kernels.Jun 03 15:09
fewaMinceR, didnt BSD's get SMP way earlier than linux?Jun 03 15:09
twitterthere's been lots of good design that died without freedom - only non free software can actually die.Jun 03 15:09
MinceRafaik linux got smp earlierJun 03 15:09
twitterbblJun 03 15:09
MinceRi'm pretty certain i remember the times when 1) linux had smp and *bsd didn't and 2) linux had kernel modules and *bsd didn'tJun 03 15:09
oiaohmBSD weak licence ment more often and not a commerical would pick up it source code and never give back.Jun 03 15:10
fewalinux X needs to move to XCBJun 03 15:10
oiaohmSo even that BSD is older it made less progress.Jun 03 15:11
fewaand BSD is the cathedral vs linux the bazarJun 03 15:11
MinceRthey're both bazaars but bsd is unprotected in an age when it does need the protectionJun 03 15:11
oiaohmTime could have turned out way differently in many places.Jun 03 15:12
fewano company can get behind BSD and contribute cause then the competitors can just rip it offJun 03 15:12
oiaohmIf slightly different things had happened.Jun 03 15:12
fewathe bsd licence rewards forkingJun 03 15:13
oiaohmBSD with a stricter licence world would have been different.Jun 03 15:13
oiaohmMS hit sooner for bad pracs leaving BeOS and amiga alive longer.Jun 03 15:13
schestowitz“Decisions Engine” Means Microsoft Decides What You Should Think < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/microsoft-revisionist-engine/ >Jun 03 15:13
schestowitztrmanco: agreedJun 03 15:14
schestowitzI use KnodeJun 03 15:14
oiaohmWe are in a world that lots of designs have been destoried before they reached there final form.Jun 03 15:14
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trmancoschestowitz, it's going to take me sometimeJun 03 15:14
trmancoit has a small learning curve imoJun 03 15:14
schestowitzThere's a create filter from mesage in both clientsJun 03 15:15
schestowitzBy "Sender" by defaultJun 03 15:15
schestowitz*messageJun 03 15:15
fewawhat slrn?Jun 03 15:15
fewai use evolutionJun 03 15:16
oiaohmIts a bit hard for people like twitter to get there were a lot of chances for something like Linux to form.    Someone could have taken bsd and put a wrapper licence over it forcing all furture alterations to this branch to give back there alteration.Jun 03 15:16
oiaohmWould have had a quite a major head start on Linux.Jun 03 15:16
trmancofewa, evolution isn't appropriate for thatJun 03 15:16
oiaohmJust people never took the chance.Jun 03 15:16
fewaoiaohm, bsd was encumbered, linus said he wouldnt have done his project is the bsd case ended soonerJun 03 15:17
fewaif there was a truly free x86 OSJun 03 15:17
fewatrmanco, what are you doing?Jun 03 15:18
oiaohmThere were a lot of factors lead to where Linux and other OS's end up.  I cannot forget in 1995 MS saying that closed source drivers were the best thing in the world.Jun 03 15:19
twitter"Its a bit hard for people like twitter to get there were a lot of chances for something like Linux to form. "  Hmph, Linux is here today because RMS saw things clearly in 1983.  It will go away tomorrow if people disregard freedom.Jun 03 15:19
oiaohmAllowed hardware companies to keep there secrets.Jun 03 15:19
oiaohmI remember the dos age were most hardware had to give up its specs or not be used.Jun 03 15:20
oiaohm1995 was a turning point for a lot of OS's for the worse twitter.Jun 03 15:21
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oiaohmI always like people saying that RMS saw clearly in 1983Jun 03 15:22
trmancofewa, configuring slrnJun 03 15:22
oiaohmRMS saw hurd.Jun 03 15:22
oiaohmAs the design forward in 1983 not the Linux kernel.Jun 03 15:22
fewaim sick of HAl edit warringJun 03 15:23
fewaoiaohm, microkernelJun 03 15:23
oiaohmminux could have even got up at a few points with heavy injection of commerical support.Jun 03 15:23
oiaohmBasically if we could time travel remove the interference events from MS we really don't know what we would have today.Jun 03 15:24
oiaohmAnd even novell before that.Jun 03 15:25
MinceRthat doesn't make their actions positive in any way.Jun 03 15:25
oiaohmMS were purely positive for MS.Jun 03 15:25
fewaoiaohm, revisionist history is not very productiveJun 03 15:25
fewaoiaohm, and is not very historicalJun 03 15:26
fewawhat if the fritz chip was mandated by congress?Jun 03 15:26
oiaohmHistory does not say Linux is here because its Unix.   It more say it here because it fited outside MS destruction path.Jun 03 15:26
MinceRno, you say thatJun 03 15:27
MinceRand it certainly isn't outside m$'s path of destruction either.Jun 03 15:28
oiaohmMS had no interest for a long time in the high end servers.  They were focused on the low end.Jun 03 15:28
oiaohmSame with the desktop MS was focused on that.Jun 03 15:28
oiaohmLinux managed to grow away from the harm so it can face them now.Jun 03 15:29
fewaoiaohm, of course, they are interested in network effectsJun 03 15:29
fewaits all about evangalismJun 03 15:29
oiaohmLot of things were targeted at being just desktop OS's straight in the path of MS and destroyed.Jun 03 15:30
oiaohmLinux protected itself mostly by being a broad targeting OS.Jun 03 15:30
MinceRno, linux protected itself by not depending on a company that could have been bought by m$.Jun 03 15:31
MinceRit took them a lot of time to find how to try to stop it from competing.Jun 03 15:31
oiaohmI have seen many OS's open and closed come and go MinceR.Jun 03 15:31
MinceR(patents)Jun 03 15:31
oiaohmThe desktop ones most of them were pure doomed they just could not get the specs they need to make anything useful.Jun 03 15:32
oiaohmVendor lockin is extreamly damaging to the market.Jun 03 15:33
MinceRlinux targeted the desktop from the beginningJun 03 15:33
oiaohmLinux major hardware support growth came in the web boom.Jun 03 15:34
oiaohmRight place right time.Jun 03 15:34
oiaohmAnd compadible enough with the big iron to pick up server.Jun 03 15:35
oiaohmIf Linux had stayed only in the desktop market we would not be talking about it as powerful as it is now.Jun 03 15:36
MinceRobviously, a linux that's only capable of desktop use is not as powerful as one that also works in servers, high-performance and embedded.Jun 03 15:38
oiaohmLinux managed to avoid MS deal with device makers to destroy apple only to make Windows drivers.Jun 03 15:39
oiaohmThat also ruined a lot of other desktop targeting OS's.Jun 03 15:39
MinceRi don't understand the first of those two sentences.Jun 03 15:40
MinceRs/high-performance/supercomputers/Jun 03 15:40
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oiaohm1995 on MS was pushing for hardware makers only to release drivers for them for like printers and the like MinceR and no specs.Jun 03 15:41
oiaohmThat almost destroyed Apple took a lot of other OS's out completely.Jun 03 15:42
oiaohmLinux in that time moved into servers out of the path of the destruction.Jun 03 15:42
oiaohmSo it had the resources to recover.  Were other OS's did not.Jun 03 15:42
neighborleeMinceR, amen to that..or the idea is sound anyway ;))Jun 03 15:43
MinceRoiaohm: it didn't need "resources" because it had a non-business developer base.Jun 03 15:44
MinceRenough people cared to develop it anyway.Jun 03 15:44
fewathings need business support, even if indirectlyJun 03 15:44
MinceRsome projects can survive without itJun 03 15:44
fewanot large onesJun 03 15:44
MinceRit's a great boost, but it isn't indispensable.Jun 03 15:45
oiaohmFull time programmers from companies MinceR.   That allowed Linux to recover quicker than it other wise would have from that harm MS did MinceR.Jun 03 15:45
fewaie if the program makes people money and gets stuff done, it doesnt matter if the business is supporting it, but its employees are benifited from itJun 03 15:45
oiaohmTo have them Linux had to be making people profit and be usable somewhere.Jun 03 15:45
oiaohmServer market provided that window.Jun 03 15:45
fewayesJun 03 15:46
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oiaohmFocus from most Linux developers from 1995 to about 2003 was on how to best server the server market.Jun 03 15:46
oiaohmSince that was were most of the income was coming from.Jun 03 15:46
oiaohmIt saved linux from the path a lot of OS's end up.Jun 03 15:47
oiaohmWe really cannot say for sure if Linux will be the best suited for the desktop.  All we can really do is open the market back up and allow competition to form against Linux.Jun 03 15:48
oiaohmAfter we have got rid of the problem.Jun 03 15:48
MinceRwill be? who cares. it already is.Jun 03 15:48
fewalinux clearly gives the best value in a netbook/internet/new computer user environmentJun 03 15:49
schestowitzWhat Microsoft’s Anti-Linux Taskforce in Wal-Mart Teaches Us About Sub-notebooks < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/sub-notebooks-linux-taskforces/ >Jun 03 15:51
schestowitzfewa: I quoted you in itJun 03 15:51
schestowitzwb, qense Jun 03 15:51
qensehalloJun 03 15:51
taconeheyJun 03 15:52
fewaschestowitz, thats basically what the intel settlement saidJun 03 15:52
fewas/settlement/fine/Jun 03 15:52
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fewamore HA1 bs: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=OpenDocument&diff=294131073&oldid=294080589Jun 03 15:56
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oiaohmAt least Linux lived and will give us a chance to have other OS's appear in time.  Linux may in time turn out not to be the perfect design for the desktop or it could too.  But it will be good enough to stuff MS.Jun 03 16:03
fewalinux is the best thing out there right nowJun 03 16:03
fewaso in that way it is a great productJun 03 16:04
MinceRi doubt we'll ever see a perfect designJun 03 16:04
fewathe best product is perfect until proven otherwiseJun 03 16:04
MinceRonly ever greater onesJun 03 16:04
oiaohmI adminer how Linux has beating barriers that took out the rest.Jun 03 16:05
oiaohmWithout Linux Ms would have basically total victory now.Jun 03 16:05
fewafritzt and palladiam timeJun 03 16:05
fewa1984, knocking on your doorJun 03 16:06
oiaohmLinux has taken in palladium tech.     So vs linux on that MS is not going to turn out well.Jun 03 16:06
fewapalladiam was mostly lock in howeverJun 03 16:07
fewabut yeah TC is a threat still in both MS and linuxJun 03 16:07
oiaohmpalladim/TPM same thing.  TPM is support by 2.6.30Jun 03 16:08
fewaTPM != TPM, palladium/TC is the implamentation and application of a TPMJun 03 16:08
fewain order to make all competition impossibleJun 03 16:09
fewai mean palladiam != TPMJun 03 16:09
oiaohmLinux usage of TPM can create the same lock out on devices.Jun 03 16:09
fewabut yesJun 03 16:09
fewait canJun 03 16:09
fewaTPMs need physical overrideJun 03 16:09
oiaohmIts a each battle.  Not worth eath side starting.Jun 03 16:09
MinceRTC got toned down a lot compared to the original palladium idea, iircJun 03 16:09
MinceRstill it's evilJun 03 16:10
oiaohmeath= eitherJun 03 16:10
MinceRit should be forbidden by law to ship TPMs with premade keys on them.Jun 03 16:10
fewayesJun 03 16:10
MinceRafter all, the only thing that enables is the part they publicly claim isn't so importantJun 03 16:11
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#TrustJun 03 16:11
MinceRcertainly not a security feature.Jun 03 16:11
oiaohmBigger risk at moment is media companies working with hardware companys to make uncrackable media play back.Jun 03 16:11
fewathat was always microsoft's ideaJun 03 16:11
MinceR(it's the "endorsement key")Jun 03 16:11
*schestowitz profiling a Microsoft shillJun 03 16:11
fewause media companies to back them in destroying all competitioreJun 03 16:12
oiaohmThe one I am talking about is the idea to embed into monitors. fewaJun 03 16:12
fewagood intel jumped in with the processor ID and scared peple in to thinkingJun 03 16:12
oiaohmNot really helpful for MS.Jun 03 16:12
MinceRthey've already put DRM in monitors :/Jun 03 16:12
oiaohmIn time the monitor lock could be OS netural.Jun 03 16:13
fewathats why you have to get DVIJun 03 16:13
MinceRit works on DVI, tooJun 03 16:13
oiaohmDVI can have DRM in it fewaJun 03 16:13
fewaoiaohm, no its cant beJun 03 16:13
fewaoiaohm, DRM requires special keys that people have to sign, making the DVD situation etcJun 03 16:13
oiaohmIt can dvi support digatial channels to screen fewaJun 03 16:13
MinceRthere's DVI with HDCP supportJun 03 16:14
trmancooh yeahJun 03 16:14
oiaohmThe old vga port before dvi cannot be used for drm.Jun 03 16:14
fewaDVI with HDCP? isnt that HDMI?Jun 03 16:14
trmancoI starting to learn slrnJun 03 16:14
trmancofeels greatJun 03 16:14
MinceRnot only HDMIJun 03 16:14
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fewaput  digital fidelity of DVI is way better than analog VGAJun 03 16:14
fewajust blows VGA awayJun 03 16:14
oiaohmAnd the anoglog only form of dvi can not have it either.Jun 03 16:15
oiaohmOnce you get digital fidelity you have a digital streams fewa.Jun 03 16:15
fewai knowJun 03 16:15
oiaohmand you can have encryptions on them if the monitor supports decoding.Jun 03 16:15
fewathats why it has to be labledJun 03 16:16
fewasadly microsoft shills, MAFIAA, etc, pay good money to keep their consumers cluelessJun 03 16:16
MinceRfewa: for example, http://us.acer.com/acer-v2/product.do;jsessionid=C368A0A497AFA71D0E3B3F738F7711A5.public_a_us003?LanguageISOCtxParam=en&inu49e.current.c2att92=453&link=ln314e&CountryISOCtxParam=US&kcond47e.c2att92=453&rcond159e.att21k=1&kcond48e.c2att101=54855&rcond190e.att21k=1&acond23=US&sp=page17e&rcond157e.c2att92=453&ctx1g.c2att92=453&kcond50e.c2att92=453&rcond45e.att21k=1&rcond158e.c2att1=25&ctx2.c2att1=25&inu53e.current.c2att92=453&rcJun 03 16:16
schestowitz"Merck is bailing on medical software.Jun 03 16:16
schestowitzRosetta Biosoftware must be a non-performing dog.Jun 03 16:16
schestowitzhttp://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2243389/microsoft-acquire-medical "Jun 03 16:16
MinceR"DVI (HDCP)'Jun 03 16:16
MinceRs/.$/"/Jun 03 16:17
schestowitzMicrosoft must be trying to get data which makes people depending on it (think bailout)Jun 03 16:17
fewaschestowitz, they need valuable data so they are invaluableJun 03 16:17
fewaand the effected customers will never be notifiedJun 03 16:18
MinceRfewa: better example >> http://us.acer.com/acer-v2/product.do;jsessionid=C368A0A497AFA71D0E3B3F738F7711A5.public_a_us003?link=oln85e.redirect&changedAlts=&kcond48e.c2att101=-1&CRC=2759084358#wrAjaxHistory=0Jun 03 16:18
MinceR(has DVI(HDCP), but no HDMI)Jun 03 16:18
taconethus setting new directions for the Zeitgeist “Service” as well as a strategy to avoid any political problems (sorry guys I am a Mono fan boy, but sadly the 2 other maintainers in the Team aren’t, so no worries the only language the engine would be ported to would be C).Jun 03 16:18
fewaanother big reason for single payer, government choice health careJun 03 16:18
taconehttp://seilo.geekyogre.com/2009/06/udss-influence-on-gnome-zeitgeist/Jun 03 16:18
fewa at least there are some laws on the government's retention and use of dataJun 03 16:19
taconeschestowitz: read ?Jun 03 16:19
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schestowitzTroll Warning: Bill Snyder, IDG, Microsoft Investor < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/bill-snyder-agent-provocateur/ >Jun 03 16:30
oiaohmI don't know why twitter always has to take me as pro MS.Jun 03 16:31
oiaohmI really am not.Jun 03 16:31
oiaohmI am just anti looking at something with rose colored glasses.    History is far more interesting with the full thing that happened.Jun 03 16:32
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EruaranI just know I'm going to tell a customer to piss off tomorrowJun 03 16:36
EruaranDealing with someone who A)Can't communicate clearly what they want and B)Changes their mind about what they wantJun 03 16:37
EruaranAnd then blames us when they don't get what they wantJun 03 16:37
Eruaran:@Jun 03 16:38
oiaohmI know the kind.Jun 03 16:38
oiaohmI normally scare them into getting there mind in order.Jun 03 16:38
Eruaranwe have a minority of people like thatJun 03 16:39
oiaohmI have something on our order system.   This is a single tower case worth over $25000.  It will handle all bar the the most extream user.Jun 03 16:39
oiaohmBasically if you cannot make up your mind that this is the only thing we will sell you.Jun 03 16:40
oiaohmAnd watch there jaw drop to floor.Jun 03 16:40
EruaranhehJun 03 16:42
EruaranI did something like that with a guy who wanted a gaming system "like the pro's use"Jun 03 16:43
EruaranI told him that sponsors usually pay for that stuff you knowJun 03 16:43
EruaranI made sure it was expensiveJun 03 16:43
EruaranAnd he wanted to stuff around endlessly on the details of what parts we used when he really had no idea what he was talking aboutJun 03 16:44
EruaranWhenever someone insists they must have Gael RAM the first thing I think is, "ah ok, we have a tosser"Jun 03 16:44
EruaranOn of our guys didnt go to bed last nightJun 03 16:46
EruaranI spoke to him this afternoon, he hadn't been to bed yetJun 03 16:46
EruaranHe was like, "youre going to love this"Jun 03 16:46
EruaranAnd you can guess...Jun 03 16:46
Eruaran"blah blah blah... Windows Server 2008... blah blah... Exchange... nightmare... worked through the night..."Jun 03 16:47
EruaranI'm like, "didn't they just need a file server ?"Jun 03 16:48
Eruaran"yeah"Jun 03 16:48
Eruaran"who sold them that"Jun 03 16:48
Eruaran:PJun 03 16:48
EruaranSomeone from head office didn't ask them what they neededJun 03 16:49
Eruaranthe client that isJun 03 16:49
Eruaranthe client said they wanted WS2008 etc etcJun 03 16:49
Eruaranand they just sold it to themJun 03 16:49
EruaranaaaaahhhhhhhhhJun 03 16:49
EruaranSo... he ended up crashing for a sleep in one of our Melbourne stores this afternoonJun 03 16:50
EruaranThankyou very much head office...Jun 03 16:51
EruaranIf either of us had dealt with that client they would be happily using a Netgear ReadyNAS duo right now, with no problemsJun 03 16:51
Eruaranwow... so many tossers this weekJun 03 16:52
Eruaran:PJun 03 16:52
EruaranSometimes conversations go like this:Jun 03 16:53
schestowitzFraunhofer Again Lobbies for Microsoft Lock-in < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/fraunhofer-promotes-ooxml/ > Jun 03 16:53
Eruaran"Server 2003 is doing this and that... bla bla... Exchange is doing this... What do you think we should do ?"Jun 03 16:54
Eruaranreply: "install ClarkConnect"Jun 03 16:54
Eruaranhi schestowitzJun 03 16:54
schestowitzHeyJun 03 16:55
schestowitzMicrosoft has canceled 13 productsJun 03 16:55
schestowitzLimited lifetime...Jun 03 16:56
Eruaran13 ?Jun 03 16:56
schestowitzThey might not cancel Zune nextJun 03 16:56
schestowitzNot yetJun 03 16:56
schestowitzBecause they made a new lousy modeJun 03 16:56
schestowitz*modelJun 03 16:56
schestowitzWhich the press doesn't even talk aboutJun 03 16:56
Eruaranmaybe its too zoonJun 03 16:56
schestowitzBecause it's another douche disguised as a gadgetJun 03 16:56
schestowitzLike Microsoft's 'search'Jun 03 16:57
schestowitz"We decided for you" decision engineJun 03 16:57
EruaranyepJun 03 16:57
schestowitzMaybe if they can scam some peoplw ith propaganda for a while then it's  worthy investment to them,..Jun 03 16:57
schestowitzLinux is........Jun 03 16:57
schestowitz         communismJun 03 16:57
Eruarannobody's going to use Bing unless its forced on themJun 03 16:57
schestowitz         patent infringerJun 03 16:57
schestowitz         cancerJun 03 16:57
schestowitz         getting the facts..Jun 03 16:58
schestowitzEruaran: but they ARE forcedJun 03 16:58
schestowitzSee my last post about itJun 03 16:58
EruaranohJun 03 16:58
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/microsoft-revisionist-engine/Jun 03 16:58
schestowitzIE6 users pushed into itJun 03 16:58
schestowitzTypical gangester mentalityJun 03 16:58
schestowitzIf they don't go to water, put a leash on emJun 03 16:58
schestowitzMake em srinkJun 03 16:59
schestowitz*drinkJun 03 16:59
schestowitzMeh.Jun 03 16:59
schestowitzAnd there I was thinking about the NewMicrosoft{tm}Jun 03 16:59
EruaranThere is no NewMicrosoft{tm}, that's vaporware ;)Jun 03 17:00
schestowitzHelp needed.Jun 03 17:00
schestowitz"If I recall correctly Icahn and his activists cancelled the employeeJun 03 17:00
schestowitzprotection agreement described here:Jun 03 17:00
schestowitzhttp://www.infoworld.com/t/business/yahoo-protects-employees-in-case-microsoft-takeover-538Jun 03 17:00
schestowitzI cannot find the updated info about the cancellation.  Do you have aJun 03 17:00
schestowitzgood link available somewhere? "Jun 03 17:00
schestowitzEruaran: NewMicrosoft{tm} will be out real soon nowJun 03 17:01
schestowitzJust keep buying from OldMicrosoft{tm} for nowJun 03 17:01
schestowitzThe upgrade will come along with WinFSJun 03 17:01
EruaranooohJun 03 17:01
EruaranCan I haz Duke Nukem Forever as well ?Jun 03 17:01
EruaranI don't know anything about itJun 03 17:03
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BalrogWindows 7 RTM will be delivered to partners in JulyJun 03 17:10
Balrogprobably will leak shortly afterwardsJun 03 17:10
EruaranThat will probably give us plenty of work to doJun 03 17:11
Eruaranoh roflJun 03 17:17
Eruaransearching with Bing from Konqueror gave me an interesting resultJun 03 17:17
schestowitzBalrog: well, you can get Vista nowJun 03 17:17
Eruaran"Unexpected end of data, some information may be lost."Jun 03 17:17
schestowitzWithout the "7" UIJun 03 17:17
BalrogI've tried vista .. wasn't funJun 03 17:18
EruaranSpare a thought for my friend who did an all nighter with Server 2008Jun 03 17:18
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schestowitzEruaran: Microsoft might be using very mischievous pigeons to choose these resultsJun 03 17:19
EruaranHe may require counsellingJun 03 17:19
Eruaranschestowitz: no that was an error that Konq threw upJun 03 17:19
fewaloo, pidgon rank, they took it seriously :PJun 03 17:19
Eruarantried to use bing in KonqJun 03 17:19
Eruaranand Konq convulsedJun 03 17:20
Eruaran:DJun 03 17:20
Eruaranwow seriouslyJun 03 17:21
Eruarantry using bing with KonqJun 03 17:21
schestowitzfewa: but they used humansJun 03 17:23
schestowitzOr code monkeysJun 03 17:23
EruaranGoogle works fine... With Bing I get an error every time I try to search for somethingJun 03 17:23
schestowitzWithout the "code" partJun 03 17:23
schestowitzMonosJun 03 17:23
schestowitzGNOME Zeitgeist Decides Not to Go with Mono < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/developers-rejecting-mono/ >Jun 03 17:23
schestowitzEruaran: you help it by trying itJun 03 17:23
schestowitzI never visited that siteJun 03 17:23
EruaranI went there to see how biased its autocompletion and search results areJun 03 17:24
EruaranAnd I get an error from Konq when I try to search for something in  Bing... ROFLJun 03 17:24
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schestowitzJim Goldman is a Microsoft shill to watch out for (been shilling for them for years): Latest: http://www.cnbc.com/id/30640958/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahooJun 03 17:41
schestowitzit's a decision engineJun 03 17:41
schestowitzI made the decision to ignore itJun 03 17:41
schestowitzBut not without showing how Microsoft breaks the law to promote thisJun 03 17:42
EruaranMicrosoft thrives when users are ignorantJun 03 17:44
schestowitzcJun 03 17:46
schestowitzWatch the SCO shills attacking the messenger: http://blogs.computerworld.com/when_sco_is_dead_and_buried#comment-144130Jun 03 17:47
schestowitzEruaran: when?Jun 03 17:47
schestowitzThey areJun 03 17:47
schestowitzWhen it comes to compuitnJun 03 17:47
schestowitzcomputingJun 03 17:47
schestowitzLet me fetch a quoiteJun 03 17:47
schestowitz"There are three categories of Windows users: those that know nothingJun 03 17:49
schestowitzabout computers, those that care nothing about computers, and those thatJun 03 17:49
schestowitzexploit the first two groups."Jun 03 17:49
schestowitzSent by E-mail to me some days agoJun 03 17:49
Eruaranoh niceJun 03 17:50
EruaranI like itJun 03 17:50
schestowitzWow. Zonker criticises Microsoft for a change: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community/?p=293Jun 03 17:50
schestowitzMany [More] enemies and few friends. http://www.osnews.com/thread?366417Jun 03 17:52
schestowitzCA Acquires Cassatt Assets, Bulks Up Cloud Capabilities < http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Cloud-Computing/CA-Buys-Troubled-Cassatt-Bulks-Up-Cloud-Capabilities-663576/ > Fog computing, not Cloud...Jun 03 18:01
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schestowitzJoe Shields (directhex) attacking the messenger http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13836Jun 03 18:10
Eruaranthe usual suspectsJun 03 18:11
EruaranI suddenly have George Harrisons, 'My Sweet Lord' in my headJun 03 18:13
schestowitzI got my mind setttt onnnn Mono..Jun 03 18:15
taconemono religion...Jun 03 18:15
Eruarannice new features in the latest beta of KDevelop4Jun 03 18:17
Eruarannice little things that speed up developmentJun 03 18:17
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schestowitzDangers of centralised DBs: ID database snooped for celebrities' secrets  < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184506/id-database-snooped-celebrities-secrets >Jun 03 18:34
schestowitzTough time for hardware: Recession Wipes Out Hardware Upstarts  < http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/recession-wipes-out-hardware-upstarts/ >Jun 03 18:35
schestowitz"SiCortex had created one of the more interesting supercomputers to come along in years. It relied on thousands of low-power chips and a customized version of Linux. The company has reportedly sold a number of systems but not enough to nudge more money out of its investors, including Chevron and Polaris Venture Partners.Jun 03 18:36
schestowitz"Jun 03 18:36
schestowitzOracle to consider Java-powered netbooks and phones. http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1184495/oracle-invest-heavily-javaJun 03 18:38
schestowitzThat would be GNU/LinuxJun 03 18:38
schestowitz SiCortex Meets an Untimely End  < http://www.hpcwire.com/blogs/SiCortex-Meets-an-Untimely-End-46370327.html > Origins in Novell BTWJun 03 18:41
schestowitzScaleDB find reasons to sneak out of software freedom: http://scaledb.com/component/option,com_wordpress/Itemid,243/p,55/Jun 03 18:42
EruaranbblJun 03 18:44
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schestowitz" Bush told Chirac his planned invasion of Iraq was "willed by God" to "erase" enemy peoples. And Rumsfeld tried to manipulate him with biblical references." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#03%20June%202009%20%28Willed%20by%20God%29Jun 03 18:57
schestowitzObama opposes transparency in a big to erase the misdeeds of his predecessors in power: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/01/photos/index.htmlJun 03 18:59
schestowitzWhy is the U.S. continuing to tell the Lebanese how to vote? < http://www.lebanonwire.com/0905MLN/09052703AN.asp >Jun 03 19:00
schestowitzSorry, more [OT]: Obama administration sides with Saudis on 9/11 suit < http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/31/obama-sides-with-saudis/ >Jun 03 19:00
schestowitzHere is a nice suggestion: Screen shots in the package manager < http://blog.linuxbox.co.nz/2009/06/screen-shots-in-package-manager.html  >Jun 03 19:02
schestowitzWe're in the FSF site: http://www.fsf.org/news/ad-bardJun 03 19:03
taconesynaptic have something like that, sort ofJun 03 19:03
schestowitzNot just icons?Jun 03 19:04
schestowitzThe idea is a bit odd thoughJun 03 19:04
taconehas some unuseful screenshot retrievalJun 03 19:04
taconethe new appcenter will make it better, we hopeJun 03 19:04
schestowitzTo represent an app with a screenie is like represnting a song with an album coverJun 03 19:04
schestowitzIt says little about functionJun 03 19:04
schestowitzMaybe link to homepage with many screenshots would help moreJun 03 19:05
taconeschestowitz: well, you can guess at a look if it's gtk or qt. if it's old or notJun 03 19:05
taconeetcJun 03 19:05
taconelink to the homepage is already there.Jun 03 19:05
schestowitzI never really use Synamptic muchJun 03 19:05
schestowitzSynaptixJun 03 19:05
taconeit's more about end users. btwJun 03 19:05
schestowitzBahJun 03 19:05
schestowitz*ticJun 03 19:05
schestowitzI use apt-get in UbuntuJun 03 19:05
taconesynaptic screenshot feature got in unnoticed because it sucksJun 03 19:05
taconeschestowitz: me too, that's why they're redoing everything.Jun 03 19:06
schestowitzMemory?Jun 03 19:06
taconeeveryone uses apt-getJun 03 19:06
taconeno, they put a button to retrieve the screenshotJun 03 19:06
taconeand the screenshot is just 1. and too smallJun 03 19:06
taconea good screenshot gallery and user reviews/comments may help a lot.Jun 03 19:06
taconeuser ratings. and 'who use x also uses y'Jun 03 19:07
taconediscoverability is a big issue if you have 20.000 packages in a repository.Jun 03 19:07
schestowitzDebian does some chartingJun 03 19:08
BalrogI use aptitude in ubuntuJun 03 19:08
taconeschestowitz: we're talking about end users, not debian hackers :)Jun 03 19:08
taconeif I download a video editing software i may find useful to find related softwareJun 03 19:09
taconelike audio editors, encoding plugins etc.Jun 03 19:09
Balrog.wi4Jun 03 19:10
schestowitztessier: New newsletter for CentOS, which is a loverly OS: http://dag.wieers.com/blog/centos-pulse-community-newsletter http://wiki.centos.org/Newsletter/0901Jun 03 19:11
schestowitz*lovelyJun 03 19:11
schestowitztacone: indeedJun 03 19:11
taconeschestowitz: how does adbard performs ?Jun 03 19:14
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DaemonFChmmm, apparently by the time I've used maximum/optimized compression settings on a LossyFLAC, it gives Xiph.org's Directshow filters major indigestionJun 03 19:18
DaemonFCand they end up crashing whatever is trying to play the file backJun 03 19:18
DaemonFCoddly enough, VLC, Winamp, and Gstreamer all play them fineJun 03 19:19
DaemonFC:PJun 03 19:19
DaemonFCso does RockBoxJun 03 19:19
DaemonFCso obviously I've hit some kind of bug with either Directshow or Xiph.org's filter (or a combination) with a perfectly compliant fileJun 03 19:20
schestowitztacone: I don't know or care too muchJun 03 19:21
schestowitztessier's ads will be up soon.Jun 03 19:22
schestowitzAdBard allows just one small slot for the time being. So it remains in the sidebarJun 03 19:22
taconei shall try that. i have to remove adsense though (not a big problem, that doesn't bring a cent)Jun 03 19:22
schestowitzDaemonFC took the blue pill again and he's frothing off the mouth... ;-)Jun 03 19:23
schestowitztacone: AdSense is badJun 03 19:23
schestowitzIt doesn't even cover the hosting bill for other sites I haveJun 03 19:23
taconei keep adsense as charity to google :PJun 03 19:23
taconeit doesn't cover my bill as well :(Jun 03 19:23
schestowitzGood for 'decoration'Jun 03 19:23
schestowitztacone: normalJun 03 19:23
taconei have no problem to do some charity to googleJun 03 19:24
schestowitzTotally normal, except... those who lies about it;-)Jun 03 19:24
schestowitz*lieJun 03 19:24
DaemonFCAdSense makes Google a lot of money and lets them spy on the visitors to your pages and if you're really really good, Google may toss you a nickel every now and thenJun 03 19:24
taconegoogle may not be perfect, but without it everything is lost.Jun 03 19:24
DaemonFC:)Jun 03 19:24
taconewell schestowitz dependsJun 03 19:24
schestowitzIt amuses me to see people who think ads will make them richJun 03 19:24
taconethe problem is another: foss sites have not really an audience who clicks on bannersJun 03 19:24
DaemonFCGoogle is no different than Apple or Microsoft or the next huge bloated companyJun 03 19:24
schestowitzThey obviously don't pay attention to death of newspaper, for instance.Jun 03 19:25
DaemonFCthey just seem to have better PRJun 03 19:25
schestowitzThe money is in stuff like clafssifiedsJun 03 19:25
taconei can see digg people getting more money inJun 03 19:25
schestowitzAnd Craigslist, ebay, etc. took that from daily papersJun 03 19:25
schestowitztacone: not reallyJun 03 19:25
taconethe more high is the % of windows visitors, the higher the adsense incomeJun 03 19:25
schestowitzThey make little money in DiggJun 03 19:25
schestowitzThey dumped MS tooJun 03 19:25
schestowitzFor ads at leastJun 03 19:25
taconeschestowitz: i spoke about digg people as being more 'casual' users than ubuntu planet guys.Jun 03 19:26
schestowitzAsay threw some numbers about Digg's revenue a while ago. Very underwhelming..Jun 03 19:26
schestowitzNetscape had similar issuesJun 03 19:26
taconeschestowitz: let me rephrase for you. the more stupid are the users and more silly is the topic of the blog, the more money you makeJun 03 19:26
DaemonFCWhat will we do if Google stops making proprietary software off of hijacked open source?Jun 03 19:27
DaemonFCshock horrorJun 03 19:27
DaemonFCthey're no better than Apple on that countJun 03 19:27
schestowitzLinus Journal become useless... http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/using-ps-monitor-processesJun 03 19:27
schestowitzThey just toss CLI quickies and videos in there now..Jun 03 19:27
schestowitz*has becomeJun 03 19:28
schestowitztacone: yes, something like thatJun 03 19:28
schestowitzNo opposition to distractions (->ads) and more gullibilityJun 03 19:28
DaemonFCwhich ius why Randall Kennedy and other parasites like him take turns praising (insert something here) and tearing down (insert something here), conflict sells copiesJun 03 19:29
schestowitzIf Google fosters Linux users and does not attack Linux, that is not as badJun 03 19:29
DaemonFCif he can spend a few months bagging on Linux and praising Microsoft, then a few months bagging on Microsoft and praising AppleJun 03 19:29
DaemonFChe gets constant conflictJun 03 19:30
schestowitzApple does not directly attack Linux, it just ignored the need to inteoperate with itJun 03 19:30
DaemonFChe's always pissing someone off who proceeds to link to himJun 03 19:30
schestowitzDaemonFC: Dvorak does that nameJun 03 19:30
DaemonFChttp://www.tikkabik.com/?p=106Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFCthis guy is funnyJun 03 19:32
DaemonFC"Personally, I don’t give a shit. AAC at 128K sounds great to me, and I’m going to convert all my MP3 files to AAC"Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFCStrike 1Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFC"People have made AAC’s case pretty clear — 128K AAC is good enough for most people who aren’t audio geeks"Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFCStrike 2Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFC"it supports the digital rights management technology Apple had to use to get the major labels on board with this store; and it’s part of QuickTime 6/MPEG-4, a core Apple system technology. All those are big pluses."Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFCStrike 3, 4, 5, and 6Jun 03 19:32
DaemonFC:PJun 03 19:32
DaemonFChe could have made the same argument for Windows Media AudioJun 03 19:33
DaemonFCobvious fanboy rantJun 03 19:33
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DaemonFC"WMA supports the digital rights management technology Microsoft had to use to get the major labels on board with this store; and it’s part of Windows, a core Microsoft system technology. All those are big pluses."Jun 03 19:34
DaemonFCsee how easy that was?Jun 03 19:34
DaemonFCuggghJun 03 19:34
DaemonFCmust....not...killJun 03 19:34
DaemonFCif you're going to use a lossy codec, make sure that you either have the source or never plan on transcoding itJun 03 19:36
DaemonFChe thinks he can convert MP3 to AAC with no penalties :PJun 03 19:36
schestowitzPractical Exercise Tips For Busy Linux Geeks http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/06/practical-exerc.htmlJun 03 19:37
schestowitzAAC? Never used it.Jun 03 19:37
DaemonFCAAC is technically the upgrade to MP3Jun 03 19:38
taconeurghJun 03 19:38
DaemonFCit's just a container for MPEG-4 audioJun 03 19:38
taconewell written article, not really useful though.Jun 03 19:38
DaemonFCAAC and Vorbis are technically about equal as far as I know, the only real advantage to AAC is that nearly every MP3 player sold can play itJun 03 19:39
DaemonFCyou can use HE-AAC if you need to do really low bitrate streamingJun 03 19:39
DaemonFCShoutcast can stream pretty much any popular audio format, but HE-AAC sounds better than the rest if you plan on going below 64kJun 03 19:40
DaemonFCso it's found a nicheJun 03 19:40
schestowitzSorry Linux but the chicken came first < http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4311 >.Jun 03 19:41
DaemonFCApple encoders can't use it though, as far as I know Nero HE-AAC is the only encoder out there that people are usingJun 03 19:41
DaemonFCand I don't like NeroJun 03 19:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: I've experimented with FAAC, but unfortunately the gstreamer-faac encoder was fairly buggy and brokenJun 03 19:44
DaemonFCand inserted all kindsa of weird artifacts into the streamJun 03 19:44
DaemonFCbut the decoder works great :)Jun 03 19:44
schestowitzhttp://jurgen.posterous.com/why-you-should-use-gentoo-on-your-servers - Why you should use Gentoo on your servers Jun 03 19:45
schestowitzI just never used itJun 03 19:45
schestowitzI know what it isJun 03 19:45
DaemonFCOddly enough Windows Media Player needs AAC codecsJun 03 19:45
schestowitzI transcode for Ogg files to be storedJun 03 19:45
DaemonFCit doesn't support the format natively at allJun 03 19:45
schestowitzNot oddJun 03 19:45
schestowitzMicrosoft wants people to use WM*Jun 03 19:45
schestowitzhttp://bushweed.blogspot.com/2009/06/comux-010111.htmlJun 03 19:46
DaemonFCyeah, Windows Media Player can encode MP3, but it's the reference encoder, so it uses the psychoaccoustic model from 1991Jun 03 19:46
DaemonFCand you get no Variable Bitrate optionsJun 03 19:46
taconehttp://audio-video.gnu.org/audio/Fenster-Free-Software-Song.ogg wow ! this can't make me puck, nice work !Jun 03 19:46
DaemonFCit can obviously playback LAME MP3 just fine since LAME has to encode it in a way that the reference encoder can play backJun 03 19:47
DaemonFCerrr decoder ratherJun 03 19:47
DaemonFCbut it's still annoying because you have to have another encoder on your systemJun 03 19:47
schestowitzBaShare: Easy Instant File Sharing Solution for Linux < http://www.ubuntu-inside.me/2009/06/bashare-easy-instant-file-sharing.html >Jun 03 19:48
DaemonFCBearshare is not a good ideaJun 03 19:48
DaemonFCMedia Defender has poisoned Gnutella with so many fakes, and jots down IP addresses of people sharing filesJun 03 19:48
DaemonFCit's pretty much become RIAA playgroundJun 03 19:49
DaemonFCnotice that almost every infringement case mentions that the person was using Limwire or Bearshare? (They both are Gnutella clients)Jun 03 19:50
DaemonFCbut relatively few mention bit torrent?Jun 03 19:50
DaemonFCYou tend to fish where you catch themJun 03 19:50
DaemonFCit's a lot easier to poison Gnutella than a private tracker like Demonoid or somethingJun 03 19:51
DaemonFCso the industry focuses on GnutellaJun 03 19:51
DaemonFCif the MAFIAA tried poisoning Demonoid, they'd have their files taken down and their IPs banned almost instantlyJun 03 19:51
DaemonFCbut there's nothing to stop them on GnutellaJun 03 19:52
DaemonFCthat's also why there's lots of computer viruses on Gnutella and few or none with any "reputable" bittorrent websiteJun 03 19:53
DaemonFCif you find one on the torrent site, you alert the mods and they take it downJun 03 19:53
DaemonFCI honestly don't know why people still use Limewire, but whatever. They can take the bullets if they insist :)Jun 03 19:54
schestowitzOpposition to Banshee (Mono, Novell copyrights) in Ubuntu: http://gquigs.blogspot.com/2009/06/banshee-by-default-cmon-not-all-of-us.htmlJun 03 19:55
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Ubuntu has been going against the community for quite some timeJun 03 19:57
DaemonFCI wouldn't be surprised at all if 9.10 has Banshee replace RhythmboxJun 03 19:57
DaemonFCFedora has been trying to move away from Mono howeverJun 03 19:57
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DaemonFCmost distributions have been fairly lukewarmJun 03 19:57
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taconei'm curious about how they will put banshee on netbooksJun 03 20:04
tacone300mb for playing songs ?!Jun 03 20:05
DaemonFCBanshee isn't that bigJun 03 20:05
DaemonFCremember that ones you have the runtime, the applications can be fairly smallJun 03 20:05
mtnd3wthis is why i don't use banshee:Jun 03 20:07
mtnd3whttp://imgur.com/bQRDB.jpgJun 03 20:07
*nicktastique snortsJun 03 20:07
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/02/mono-an-infectious-disease/ Smart has pulled in pieces from various conversations and players about mono and written something up that might appeal to a new audience or hit someone else's sweet spot.Jun 03 20:07
schestowitzmtnd3w: I don't mind memory sizeJun 03 20:08
schestowitzThe file extension bothers me moreJun 03 20:08
schestowitzLinks -> banshee.exeJun 03 20:08
schestowitzWhat's next /progra~/novell/novell~1/banshee/banshee.exe?Jun 03 20:09
DaemonFCyeah, do a file search for exes, dlls, and such in OpenSuseJun 03 20:09
DaemonFClmaoJun 03 20:09
DaemonFCthe greeter program is an EXEJun 03 20:09
MinceRlolJun 03 20:09
gnutzThey've already got an OS X version...Jun 03 20:09
mtnd3wlolJun 03 20:09
gnutzIt wouldn't be surprising to see Banshee for WindowsJun 03 20:10
schestowitzWould be surprising NOT to see itJun 03 20:10
MinceRit even carries a PE header with a stub that says it can't be run in dos modeJun 03 20:10
MinceRand that's only one of the warts .net/mono hasJun 03 20:10
MinceR(that's right, m$ fails at implementing another executable loader for their pile of hacks they dare call an operating system.)Jun 03 20:11
DaemonFCsnutz: Banshee can run on WindowsJun 03 20:12
DaemonFCmostlyJun 03 20:12
DaemonFCerrrJun 03 20:12
DaemonFCgnutzJun 03 20:12
DaemonFCyou can have it use the DirectShow backendJun 03 20:12
DaemonFCand Windows disc burning libraryJun 03 20:13
gnutzHmmm...Jun 03 20:13
DaemonFCI've built it for Windows XP beforeJun 03 20:13
DaemonFCit's not terribly difficultJun 03 20:13
gnutzAh...but there is porting required, then?Jun 03 20:13
DaemonFCit can play anything you have a DirectShow filter forJun 03 20:13
DaemonFCa minor amountJun 03 20:13
gnutzI see.Jun 03 20:13
DaemonFCI'd say approximately about 1% of the total code has to be changedJun 03 20:14
DaemonFCand it will build for WindowsJun 03 20:14
gnutzNot bad.  Not good, either.Jun 03 20:14
DaemonFCinterfacing with Windows libraries through .Net is pretty well documentedJun 03 20:14
DaemonFCso you don't even really have to be a programmer as such to do itJun 03 20:14
DaemonFCjust have a copy of Visual StudioJun 03 20:15
DaemonFCor you can use the Mono build environment if you don't mind installing the runtime tooJun 03 20:15
DaemonFCit's fairly frightening how little difference there is between a Mono application built for Linux and a .Net application built for WindowsJun 03 20:16
DaemonFCyou can get better performance through Mono than Java in *some* cases, but with Java you typically don't have to rewrite any program codeJun 03 20:17
schestowitzYahoo! snaps up top NetApp PR bod < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/03/netapp_loses_prhead/ >Jun 03 20:17
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DaemonFCuser interface performance is improved because Mono just uses native interfaceJun 03 20:18
MinceRjava can use native interface if it really wants toJun 03 20:18
DaemonFCJava duplicates a lot of things the OS can already doJun 03 20:18
_Hicham_Hi All!Jun 03 20:19
_Hicham_trolling againJun 03 20:19
MinceR(but it's rarely used)Jun 03 20:19
taconeif it's rarely used some reasons have to existJun 03 20:19
_Hicham_DaemonFC will be 60 years old and he will be still trollingJun 03 20:19
gnutzIt's amazing how willingly the distro vendors will involve themselves with such technologies when better ones exist.Jun 03 20:19
DaemonFCPython is obviously a better choice than Java or MonoJun 03 20:20
DaemonFCwherever you can get away with itJun 03 20:20
gnutzThe Tomboy/Gnote comparison is a good example.Jun 03 20:20
_Hicham_at least DaemonFC says sthg reasonableJun 03 20:21
gnutzPython is good.  Very fast, both to write and to run.  Not that I've really done any coding.Jun 03 20:21
DaemonFCif they had written Banshee in Python they would have had better performance and about the same portabilityJun 03 20:22
DaemonFCat the expense of not being able to whore MonoJun 03 20:22
gnutzThat'd be just TERRIBLE!!!  For Novell, anyway...Jun 03 20:22
schestowitzOne of the top people of Microsoft UK quits: http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/06/03/236276/microsoft-uks-national-technology-officer-moves-on.htmJun 03 20:22
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taconepython is not fast. i guess it's a little bit slower than Mono. but google is funding a speed up llvm plan.Jun 03 20:29
taconealso python has a lower entry barrier than Mono.Jun 03 20:29
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taconeofflining, bblJun 03 20:29
DaemonFCtacone: My main concern is if the interface is going to lagJun 03 20:30
DaemonFCJava has traditionally not been the best about thatJun 03 20:30
DaemonFCmemory use is usually alarming tooJun 03 20:31
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schestowitzMicrosoft UK National Technology Officer Quits the Company < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/jerry-fishenden-calls-it-quits/ >Jun 03 20:38
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schestowitzHmmm.... "NickBallard@schestowitz This is supposed to be implemented in Ubuntu 9.10: http://tinyurl.com/ot346a"Jun 03 20:39
schestowitzSo they get previees of apps workingJun 03 20:39
schestowitz*previewsJun 03 20:39
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DaemonFChmmm, according to the Xiph licenses, one could theoretically make an improved encoder and license it however they wantJun 03 20:40
DaemonFC"As far as I know, seeking is only broken when [FLAC] files are played from the library, which is a bug in WMP."Jun 03 20:45
DaemonFCresponse from the guy that does K-Lite Codec PackJun 03 20:45
DaemonFCheh, it also breaks the seek function on Vorbis files that are in the libraryJun 03 20:48
DaemonFCwhen you launch them from Explorer it works againJun 03 20:49
MinceRworks just as intended!Jun 03 20:53
DaemonFCit doesn't do it when you open an AAC, MP3, WMA, or RAM fileJun 03 20:57
DaemonFConly Vorbis or FLACJun 03 20:57
DaemonFCthat's oddJun 03 20:57
DaemonFCthats an awfully selective "bug"Jun 03 20:58
DaemonFC:)Jun 03 20:58
Balrog'OOXML BRM Convenor (Alex Brown) Joins the Pro-Mirosoft Wikipedia Spinners' on home pageJun 03 20:59
Balrog<< typeJun 03 20:59
Balrogtypo *Jun 03 20:59
DaemonFCWinamp defaults to AACJun 03 21:01
DaemonFCbut not FAACJun 03 21:01
BalrogDaemonFC: you meant 'FLAC'?Jun 03 21:02
DaemonFCnoJun 03 21:02
DaemonFCFAAC is to AAC as LAME is to MP3Jun 03 21:02
Balrogyeah, that's what I thoughtJun 03 21:02
DaemonFCfree/open source AAC EncoderJun 03 21:02
DaemonFCthe MPEG group pretty much lets free/non commercial encoders slide if you're not making money off themJun 03 21:02
DaemonFCbecause they want the format to be popularJun 03 21:03
Balrogyeah, but that's not free software ... free software doesn't limit commercial useJun 03 21:03
DaemonFCthey probably could go after FAAC or LAME but they don'tJun 03 21:03
BalrogNintendo doesn't support MP3 ... probably due to the Fraunhofer patentsJun 03 21:03
Balrogthey only support AAC in their devicesJun 03 21:04
DaemonFCAAC is the replacement for MP3Jun 03 21:04
schestowitzNHS Never Learns: Windows Viruses Leave British Patients to Die, Again < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/windows-viruses-uk-healthcare/ >Jun 03 21:04
schestowitzBalrog: thanksJun 03 21:04
DaemonFCthe file extensions can be .aac, m4a, m4p, or mp4Jun 03 21:04
DaemonFCm4p is DRM'dJun 03 21:04
DaemonFCthe rest or just various containers for Mpeg-4 audioJun 03 21:04
Balrogthere's also m4bJun 03 21:05
Balrogfor audiobooks, DRMedJun 03 21:05
DaemonFCahhhJun 03 21:05
BalrogDRMed stuff only comes from AppleJun 03 21:05
Balrog(itunes store)Jun 03 21:05
Balrogthough these days it's only DRMed m4v'sJun 03 21:05
DaemonFCyes, both AAC and Vorbis both mainly work around problems in MP3 that were never given much thought 20 years agoJun 03 21:05
Balrog(and m4b's)Jun 03 21:05
DaemonFCbut AAC is patented and supports the use of DRMJun 03 21:06
DaemonFCbut it's also the official successor to MP3Jun 03 21:06
DaemonFCAAC seems to have a better VBR algorithm than VorbisJun 03 21:06
Balrogyeah, it is. But (I understand) AAC licensing is less expensiveJun 03 21:06
DaemonFCit spits out files that are smaller at same quality settingJun 03 21:06
BalrogQuality settings often lieJun 03 21:07
DaemonFCAAC is just all around a better choice than WMA or MP3, which should never really be considered any moreJun 03 21:07
DaemonFCthe only competitive lossy formats are AAC and VorbisJun 03 21:07
BalrogMS still pushes WMAJun 03 21:08
DaemonFCAAC encoding can be improved vs the reference implementation cause of FAACJun 03 21:08
DaemonFCbut it really begs the question of "Do we really want the MP3 patent shitfest all over again?"Jun 03 21:08
DaemonFCbasically, using FAAC really just resets the patent clockJun 03 21:09
MinceRmp3 is still competitive on grounds of compatibilityJun 03 21:09
DaemonFCwhen the countdown for MP3 is about ready to expireJun 03 21:09
BalrogyeahJun 03 21:09
Balrogbut there's vorbis, which is superiorJun 03 21:09
DaemonFChmmm, the reference encoder for AAC doesn't use VBRJun 03 21:12
DaemonFChmmm, HE-AAC is not badJun 03 21:16
DaemonFCI think I found out what's wrong with FAAC on LinuxJun 03 21:24
DaemonFCit's defaulting to the MAIN object typeJun 03 21:25
DaemonFCwhen it should be using Low complexityJun 03 21:25
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taconeisn't mandriva based on ubuntu ?Jun 03 21:29
MinceRit isn'tJun 03 21:29
tacone...Jun 03 21:30
taconei thought it was. may i have confused mandriva with another distro.. ?Jun 03 21:30
taconemahJun 03 21:30
MinceRit's probably based on red hatJun 03 21:31
MinceRit uses rpm/urpmiJun 03 21:31
DaemonFCMandriva forked from Red HatJun 03 21:31
DaemonFCback in 1998Jun 03 21:31
mtnd3wback then it was called mandrakeJun 03 21:31
mtnd3wright?Jun 03 21:31
DaemonFCyesJun 03 21:32
mtnd3wone of my first linux distrosJun 03 21:32
DaemonFCI believe they were also using Red Hat's version numbersJun 03 21:32
DaemonFCso I think the first version of Mandrake was like 5.1Jun 03 21:32
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taconeyeahJun 03 21:33
taconei can't believe i was wrong on that one.Jun 03 21:33
_Goblinhi allJun 03 21:33
mtnd3whelloJun 03 21:34
mtnd3wthis shows a nice timeline of GNU/Linux: http://futurist.se/gldt/gldt93.pngJun 03 21:36
mtnd3wwhat versions branched off of what...Jun 03 21:36
schestowitzFSdaily has been down for a whileJun 03 21:36
schestowitzI wonder if they too have serious server issuesJun 03 21:37
schestowitzFS Magazine is down along with itJun 03 21:37
mtnd3wis it related to gnu server?Jun 03 21:37
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schestowitzDaemonFC: mandrake, not mandrivaJun 03 21:37
mtnd3wcause i heard gnu savannah has some technical issuesJun 03 21:37
schestowitzDuval 'branched' from Red HatJun 03 21:37
DaemonFCit's a forkJun 03 21:38
taconefsdaily sucksJun 03 21:38
schestowitzDaemonFC: yesJun 03 21:38
schestowitzBut still taking from the same poolJun 03 21:38
schestowitzSo it's not as it soundsJun 03 21:38
schestowitzLike, they will take latest xorg, pluseaudio etc.Jun 03 21:38
schestowitzSo same components evolve together anywayJun 03 21:38
schestowitzMandriva has nice admin GUIsJun 03 21:39
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schestowitzRead the conclusions at the bottom and then the comments.Jun 03 21:41
schestowitz Jun 03 21:41
schestowitzhttp://weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/Jun 03 21:41
schestowitz Jun 03 21:41
schestowitzI believe a bomb caused this disaster and nothing else!Jun 03 21:41
schestowitz==Jun 03 21:41
DaemonFChmmm, HE-AAC doesn't fare so well against normal AAC at bitrates above 128Jun 03 21:41
schestowitzSays someone Jun 03 21:41
schestowitzI haven't read it yetJun 03 21:41
DaemonFCthis may sound like an odd questionJun 03 21:43
DaemonFCbut a player that says it plays AAC, should also play m4a, right?Jun 03 21:44
mtnd3wit does seem a bit odd they didn't avoid the stormJun 03 21:44
DaemonFCI mean since all that's different is the containerJun 03 21:44
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trmancohttp://www.google.com/squaredJun 03 21:45
trmancohehJun 03 21:45
schestowitzUbuntu Users Plead to Keep Novell’s Banshee Out (and Other Miscellaneous Mono News) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/ubuntu-users-keep-banshee-out/ >Jun 03 21:45
DaemonFCYes, plead to the Ubuntu godsJun 03 21:46
DaemonFCfor you faux-community projectJun 03 21:46
DaemonFCit's not a democracy (their words)Jun 03 21:46
DaemonFCbut you can askJun 03 21:46
DaemonFCnicelyJun 03 21:46
DaemonFC:)Jun 03 21:46
taconenot a democracyJun 03 21:49
taconethe king is good. the vassals.. mmmh.Jun 03 21:49
DaemonFCUbuntu is more of a feudal systemJun 03 21:52
DaemonFC:)Jun 03 21:52
taconestop making silly smileys DaemonFC. you're a troll, we know it >:-]Jun 03 22:00
taconeyou got to burn in DLL hellJun 03 22:00
DaemonFCmaybe 10 years agoJun 03 22:01
taconeumphJun 03 22:01
trmancoGIT based Linux FS -> http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7345/Jun 03 22:05
trmanco:-PJun 03 22:06
taconegit ?Jun 03 22:08
trmancosnapshot based :-PJun 03 22:09
trmancokinda like gitJun 03 22:09
taconeapples and oranges I seeJun 03 22:11
taconeit seems good from the benchmarks thoughJun 03 22:11
trmancoI commits and logs changed every few seconds :-PJun 03 22:11
trmancoit*Jun 03 22:11
taconedoesn't support raid.Jun 03 22:12
trmancoright now it doesn'tJun 03 22:13
taconenot sure i'll ever use that. i'm an old fashioned type of guy: i still write on my hard disks using a pencil.Jun 03 22:14
trmancohehJun 03 22:17
trmancoI still use a nail and a rock to write on mine :-PJun 03 22:17
MinceRi prefer the butterfly method.Jun 03 22:18
MinceRor the initial-universe-parameters method.Jun 03 22:18
trmanco:)Jun 03 22:22
schestowitzMeh.Jun 03 22:22
schestowitztrmanco: did you see the latest Mono news?Jun 03 22:22
schestowitzIt's moving in the right direction now.Jun 03 22:22
trmancoschestowitz, no, where?Jun 03 22:23
schestowitzFront pageJun 03 22:23
trmancoI haven't read my feeds in a very long timeJun 03 22:23
tacone? fedora ?Jun 03 22:23
schestowitzTomTom deserves the creditJun 03 22:23
schestowitztrmanco: all sorts of thingsJun 03 22:23
schestowitzThey grow despsrate nowJun 03 22:23
schestowitzNovell employees running rampant with damage controlJun 03 22:23
trmancojust read the articleJun 03 22:26
schestowitzHubert replied to Fedora tooJun 03 22:42
schestowitzMaybe Red Hat will hire him at some stageJun 03 22:42
schestowitzHe speaks there to RahulJun 03 22:42
schestowitz[h]omer worked with RahulJun 03 22:43
taconewowJun 03 22:48
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DaemonFCoh niceJun 03 23:12
DaemonFCWindows Explorer also only supports the Artist/Album/#/Genre spaces if you use WMA or MP3Jun 03 23:13
DaemonFCit won't do it for any other formatsJun 03 23:14
MinceRhttp://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/06/03/006206/Apple-Bans-RSS-Reader-Due-To-Bad-Word-In-Feed-Link?from=rssJun 03 23:15
DaemonFChmmm, at 320k there's essentially no perceivable quality difference between MP3 and AACJun 03 23:16
DaemonFCI can't tell which is which anywayJun 03 23:16
DaemonFCI wonder how far down you have to goJun 03 23:16
DaemonFCwow, LAME has gotten a lot betterJun 03 23:18
DaemonFCeven at 64k it doesn't sound terribleJun 03 23:18
DaemonFCit used toJun 03 23:18
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schestowitzMinceR: what was the bad word?Jun 03 23:24
MinceR"fucking"Jun 03 23:24
schestowitzThe F work?Jun 03 23:24
schestowitzHeheJun 03 23:24
schestowitzYou beat me to itJun 03 23:24
schestowitzFreedomJun 03 23:24
schestowitzThe F wordJun 03 23:24
schestowitzAPple can't stand the F word... FreedomJun 03 23:24
DaemonFCyeah, Microsoft also censors out bad wordsJun 03 23:25
DaemonFCin your playlistJun 03 23:25
DaemonFCthey renamed "Fuck It" to "F*** It"Jun 03 23:25
DaemonFCon one of my music filesJun 03 23:25
schestowitzThey are like a parentJun 03 23:25
schestowitzSometimes disabling yout PC tooJun 03 23:25
schestowitzTo notify you that you're  a terror~1Jun 03 23:26
DaemonFCwell, that's pretty shittyJun 03 23:26
DaemonFCthat they rename your music files like thatJun 03 23:26
DaemonFCwith no warningJun 03 23:26
MinceRthey're like the stupidest parent you've ever seenJun 03 23:27
MinceRalso a control freakJun 03 23:27
MinceRbut what the hell, i could spend all day elaborating how and why crApple sucksJun 03 23:27
DaemonFCWhy the F*** do they care if I have a bad word in one of MY files?Jun 03 23:27
DaemonFC:)Jun 03 23:27
DaemonFCthere's no choice when you buy music off MSN/Zune Store eitherJun 03 23:28
DaemonFCall they have is the radio edit/"clean" versionJun 03 23:29
taconeDaemonFC: ms is much better than apple, right ? :->Jun 03 23:30
DaemonFCmeh, about the same, Apple just gouges moreJun 03 23:30
MinceRsame shit in different colorJun 03 23:30
DaemonFChmmm, yeah, HE-AAC is much better at low bitratesJun 03 23:32
taconea nice music player http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/webupd8/~3/Aen_yGRDMN4/hurray-i-have-finally-found-replacement.htmlJun 03 23:32
DaemonFCSpectral Band Replication kicks in and the 32k file sounds about like the 64k Lame MP3Jun 03 23:32
schestowitzMinceR: colour of flavour?Jun 03 23:32
MinceRflavor is the sameJun 03 23:33
schestowitzYes, but Microsoft eats it tooJun 03 23:33
MinceRthey just use differently colored sprinkles on the turdJun 03 23:33
schestowitzThat's why Ballmer talks so much s*Jun 03 23:33
schestowitzApple does not libel LinuxJun 03 23:33
schestowitzIt's being more smart about itJun 03 23:33
MinceRtheir fanboys do it for themJun 03 23:34
DaemonFClmaoJun 03 23:34
schestowitzI know..Jun 03 23:34
MinceRand apple lies about their stance on drmJun 03 23:34
DaemonFCpretty muchJun 03 23:34
schestowitz'Fanbois'Jun 03 23:34
schestowitzFor hire..Jun 03 23:34
schestowitzMaybe.Jun 03 23:34
MinceRat least m$ tells the truth and say they're all for drmJun 03 23:34
schestowitzIt's never a lie if it's called "PR"Jun 03 23:34
MinceRcrApple lies that big media is forcing it on poor little appleJun 03 23:34
DaemonFCApple doesn't care one way or the otherJun 03 23:34
MinceRyes, that not caring is probably the reason even their executable format supports drmJun 03 23:35
MinceRclearlyJun 03 23:35
DaemonFCI mean for musicJun 03 23:35
DaemonFCthey have every reason to want rid of itJun 03 23:35
MinceRand that not caring led to their dmca-ing of that sw that allowed users to upload songs to their iPoo without iTunesJun 03 23:35
DaemonFCthe competition is selling files that work anywhereJun 03 23:35
DaemonFC(MP3)Jun 03 23:35
DaemonFCApple replies by dropping the DRM on their AAC filesJun 03 23:36
MinceRi wonder how this is supposed to excuse crAppleJun 03 23:36
DaemonFCwell, when everyone was selling DRM'd files, the DRM was to Apple's advantageJun 03 23:37
DaemonFCbecause it locked you into buying an ipodJun 03 23:37
MinceRwow, what an advantageJun 03 23:37
DaemonFCbut since you could then go and buy MP3 files that worked on anything from Amazon, there was no longer any reason to have an ipodJun 03 23:37
MinceRan advantage that made me not want to use iTunes _or_ buy an iPooJun 03 23:37
DaemonFCso Apple was harming themselves with DRM past that pointJun 03 23:37
MinceRnot that i wanted an iPoo in the first placeJun 03 23:37
DaemonFCwhich was when they dropped DRM and doubled the bitrate to 256kJun 03 23:37
DaemonFCto match AmazonJun 03 23:38
MinceRit has always been a pretty sucky digital music playerJun 03 23:38
MinceRthere have always been far superior ones on the marketJun 03 23:38
DaemonFCwhich was also admitting that they lied when they said AAC sounds twice as good at half the bitrateJun 03 23:38
DaemonFCit sounds slightly better, but not that muchJun 03 23:38
MinceRsometimes they admit some of their lies, so whatJun 03 23:38
DaemonFCit stuck out that the 256k mp3 from Amazon sounded lots better than iTunes filesJun 03 23:38
MinceRthey still have a library of liesJun 03 23:38
MinceRand it's growingJun 03 23:38
DaemonFCthey were selling them at 128k because that way it costs them less in storage and bandwidth, and it sounds like shit if you transcode themJun 03 23:39
DaemonFCnot because AAC sounds twice as goodJun 03 23:39
MinceRcrApple fanboys would never notice itJun 03 23:40
MinceRanywayJun 03 23:40
DaemonFCyou don't even really notice that AAC sounds better at all til you get down to under 64kJun 03 23:40
DaemonFCand even then it's not by a lotJun 03 23:40
MinceRthey wouldn't recognize quality if it hit them in the nose and proceeded to dance and sing "quality has come to town again"Jun 03 23:40
DaemonFCunless you use HE-AAC which breaks compatibilityJun 03 23:40
MinceRjust make a slab of cheap white toilet seat plastic, slap a crApple logo on it and they'll buy itJun 03 23:40
DaemonFCwell, Apple still says that AAC is CD quality at 64kJun 03 23:41
DaemonFCwhich is just total bullshitJun 03 23:41
DaemonFCbut it's the same lie Microsoft keeps saying about WMA vs MP3Jun 03 23:41
MinceRsee, they're the sameJun 03 23:41
MinceRthat's why i call crApple "little microsoft"Jun 03 23:41
MinceRgnJun 03 23:42
DaemonFCMicrosoft claims 64k WMA is superior to 128k MP3, they even included a transcoding file with XP Plus! that would cutyour MP3 bitrate in half and store it as a WMAJun 03 23:42
DaemonFClolJun 03 23:42
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DaemonFCI played around with it and it visibly distorted the resulting WMA file even as the transcoder said it would cut the storage requirement in half and sound the sameJun 03 23:43
DaemonFC:PJun 03 23:43
DaemonFCIt's an arms race that broke out between Apple, Real, and Microsoft they all claimed that they were better than MP3 at half the bitrateJun 03 23:45
DaemonFCeven though none of them areJun 03 23:45
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schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRc4IuAP3fg&feature=relatedJun 03 23:48
schestowitzNostalgiaJun 03 23:48
DaemonFChmmmJun 03 23:51

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