-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Xenon GNU/Linux Distribution Emerges http://ping.fm/2szEx | Jun 15 00:00 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Desktop Coverages with More Miniature Computing http://ping.fm/VINyz | Jun 15 00:05 | |
balzac | this is hilarious | Jun 15 00:16 |
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balzac | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/smchp | Jun 15 00:16 |
balzac | check out this GOP logo | Jun 15 00:16 |
maxstirner | nice | Jun 15 00:17 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "So to conclude, I’m delighted to say - no, the [Free software] community is NOT hype!" http://ping.fm/h7oks | Jun 15 00:20 | |
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schestowitz | *LOL* | Jun 15 00:21 |
balzac | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/12/bush-gives-shout-out-to-t_n_214676.html?show_comment_id=25652402#comment_25652402 | Jun 15 00:22 |
balzac | Colbert has gone soft on the Bush family | Jun 15 00:23 |
balzac | *hurl* | Jun 15 00:23 |
balzac | What is it about the Bush family? They annihilate large numbers of people, and then they hob-knob with celebrities who make them appear as if they're not monsters. | Jun 15 00:24 |
balzac | They have a way of compromising people, I suppose. | Jun 15 00:24 |
balzac | What is this, forgive Bush day or something? Did Obama just make a new national holiday? Forgive Bush day? | Jun 15 00:25 |
balzac | What would it take to remain unforgiven? | Jun 15 00:25 |
balzac | I guess you'd have to lose your financial position, then everyone would hate you like Bernie Madoff. | Jun 15 00:26 |
balzac | But you can annihilate hundreds of thousands of people, and you'll still be treated like a member of society if you keep your bank account filled with the screams of the dead. | Jun 15 00:27 |
schestowitz | Yes. | Jun 15 00:27 |
schestowitz | That's how it works | Jun 15 00:27 |
schestowitz | Other criminals too | Jun 15 00:27 |
schestowitz | Like the guy who blew planes in Cuba | Jun 15 00:27 |
schestowitz | Lives happily in Florida | Jun 15 00:27 |
schestowitz | And the guy who committed crimes and stole from people | Jun 15 00:28 |
schestowitz | Not characterise as philantropist | Jun 15 00:28 |
schestowitz | Rather than a criminal | Jun 15 00:28 |
splosion | http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220090150203%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20090150203&RS=DN/20090150203 | Jun 15 00:30 |
balzac | http://digg.com/d1tnLq | Jun 15 00:35 |
balzac | this ping pong match can't be real... | Jun 15 00:36 |
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splosion | balzac: holy shit. That's amazing | Jun 15 00:37 |
balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dcmDscwEcI <-- perhaps not as amazing as this one. | Jun 15 00:39 |
fewa | ie http://notnews.today.com/2009/06/14/iranian-election-mission-accomplished/ | Jun 15 00:40 |
fewa | balzac, that one is classic | Jun 15 00:42 |
balzac | Man, I was dying | Jun 15 00:42 |
balzac | I LOLed for real | Jun 15 00:42 |
splosion | Hahaha | Jun 15 00:43 |
balzac | http://digg.com/tech_news/Can_I_Download_the_Internet <--- first comment in this post is hilarious | Jun 15 00:43 |
splosion | http://271patent.blogspot.com/2009/06/congress-introduces-ip-protections-for.html Holy shit. Has anyone seen this? | Jun 15 00:50 |
splosion | Lat night the House voted overwhelmingly to establish new U.S. policy that will oppose any global climate change treaty that weakens the IP rights of American "green technology." | Jun 15 00:50 |
fewa | http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-2410 | Jun 15 00:51 |
fewa | http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2009-328 | Jun 15 00:52 |
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fewa | damn | Jun 15 00:53 |
balzac | ugh, I ran headlong into a broken Flash advertisement for Microsoft on FSDaily.com | Jun 15 00:54 |
splosion | Saving the world is not as important as intellectual propertyrights. Stroke of genius | Jun 15 00:55 |
balzac | I thought congress' job was to destroy the nation and the world simultaneously | Jun 15 00:58 |
balzac | Isn't that the one greater purpose which all their legislation is intended to accomplish? | Jun 15 00:58 |
fewa | most of those "green rights" are held by oil companies | Jun 15 00:59 |
fewa | bought up in order to prevent progress that would threaten their hegemonies | Jun 15 00:59 |
splosion | I don't keep up to date with the business from the US Congress. But the answer is yes if that decision is anything to go by | Jun 15 00:59 |
fewa | because of the broken part of the patent system called injunction against use | Jun 15 01:00 |
fewa | see this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0chez_Jf5A | Jun 15 01:01 |
splosion | That's significant. Most countries in the world depend on oil companies. This will mean they can't just tell those companies "Go fuck yourselves" when they come a-knocking for their IP Rights. | Jun 15 01:02 |
fewa | they can say that patents dont work that way | Jun 15 01:02 |
fewa | or that there is no reason for a patent system | Jun 15 01:02 |
fewa | calling it a right to take away the freedoms of others is quite a streach | Jun 15 01:03 |
splosion | mm | Jun 15 01:04 |
fewa | thats quite a hard line, but the video quoted gives a good overview of some of the issues and problems with the system | Jun 15 01:04 |
*splosion looks | Jun 15 01:05 | |
balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUY8HysBzsE <--- classic | Jun 15 01:07 |
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balzac | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/11/sarah-palin-today-show-in_n_214587.html <--- hilarious | Jun 15 01:32 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Kill Bill's Browser: Get Firefox, Dump Internet Explorer: http://digg.com/d1toxq?t | Jun 15 02:00 | |
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splosion | thanks for the video link, fewa, btw | Jun 15 02:42 |
fewa | yes it is a good video | Jun 15 02:42 |
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oiaohm | fewa I missed the video link. | Jun 15 02:51 |
fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0chez_Jf5A | Jun 15 02:51 |
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mib_frtdjf | Hey Roy | Jun 15 04:14 |
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google fud http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/06/14/2040209/Does-Bing-Have-Google-Running-Scared | Jun 15 04:21 | |
what could be more frightening than a search engine that reproduces wiki pages? run, hide! | Jun 15 04:22 | |
splosion | I have mod points. woot! | Jun 15 04:22 |
splosion | so google are analysing a possible competitor. Not much of a story imo | Jun 15 04:23 |
Cool, David Gerard was Slashdotted today. | Jun 15 04:26 | |
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/06/14/1649237/YouTube-HTML5-and-Comparing-H264-With-Theora | Jun 15 04:26 | |
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Good grief, Gerard has been busy with Slashdot. http://slashdot.org/~David+Gerard | Jun 15 04:40 | |
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Because Vista is officially dead, I did not think I'd be updating the Vista Failure Log again. Windows Media Center's failure to notice the well advertised DTV transition deserved special mention. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | Jun 15 05:10 | |
wow, DVD writing at 22 MB/s is impressive. k3b on Lenny rocks. | Jun 15 05:28 | |
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twitter1 | :) | Jun 15 05:58 |
twitter1 | not that again. :-( | Jun 15 05:58 |
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that's better | Jun 15 05:59 | |
splosion | funny write-up of the IE food-giveaway http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/14/microsoft-has-found-the-cheapest-meals-in-america-or-is-just-cheap/ | Jun 15 06:05 |
fewa | wow i wish i could buy a meal for 14c | Jun 15 06:10 |
splosion | well I suppose if you buy in bulk the prices will eventually drop to something similar | Jun 15 06:11 |
fewa | no way | Jun 15 06:12 |
fewa | you cant buy 700 calories and deliver them for 14c | Jun 15 06:12 |
splosion | I'd rather the million dollars was just given to a charity anyway and tied in to some shady promotion | Jun 15 06:12 |
splosion | you'd think. | Jun 15 06:14 |
splosion | But according to this place http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/hunger-map.aspx they can provide 700 meals for 100 bucks. That puts it at about 14c | Jun 15 06:14 |
fewa | maybe if those calories are already being subsidized by the US government | Jun 15 06:14 |
splosion | aye | Jun 15 06:14 |
Try rice | Jun 15 06:15 | |
fewa | or corn | Jun 15 06:15 |
splosion | still, it's a rather cynical promotion really | Jun 15 06:15 |
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sudden outbreak of common sense on the horizon? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/06/lawyers-plan-class-action-to-reclaim-100m-riaa-stole.ars | Jun 15 06:43 | |
The RIAA defense of "we lost money on this" is not very convincing, considering their major cost is their own salaries. | Jun 15 06:44 | |
splosion | I heard about that. Sounds ambitious | Jun 15 06:45 |
Their lawyers cut all sorts of corners as Ray Beckman has documented over the years. http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/ | Jun 15 06:45 | |
Far bigger and worse offenses than blatantly ignoring Federal registrar rules. | Jun 15 06:46 | |
Offenses like corralling multiple cases into one or two show trials in friendly courts. Bogus investigative methods and sloppy records keeping, on top of demanding unconstitutional spy powers. | Jun 15 06:48 | |
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http://www.eff.org/riaa-v-people has it really been 6 years since they started suing people? | Jun 15 06:49 | |
splosion | there could be a bit of a balls-up for everybody if the case goes against them, though | Jun 15 06:49 |
A not very well informed article on H1B practices in the tech article. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8086392.stm | Jun 15 07:12 | |
Could it be that M$ is going to dump their H1B people and hire them back as contractors? | Jun 15 07:12 | |
MSBBC is not to be trusted on this issue. | Jun 15 07:13 | |
splosion | I have a C1/D US Visa. what fun | Jun 15 07:15 |
kentma | mornin' | Jun 15 07:20 |
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mib_fchixg | so yeah i hate microsoft | Jun 15 08:33 |
mib_fchixg | just had to get that off my chest | Jun 15 08:34 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Signs of Mono Unrest, Legal Issues < http://ping.fm/iZpJY > | Jun 15 08:40 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Microsoft Got Rid of Judge Jackson After He Had Called Microsoft “Criminals” < http://ping.fm/UZtzG > | Jun 15 09:05 | |
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mib_qjw52z | saşl | Jun 15 09:27 |
mib_qjw52z | şlşl | Jun 15 09:27 |
mib_qjw52z | lşl | Jun 15 09:27 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Wants to Charge $50 Per GNU/Linux Desktop < http://ping.fm/bz88P > | Jun 15 09:30 | |
schestowitz | "FYI, Charlie was at the show in Taiwan where ASUS showed the ARM based Netbook, and here's his take on the situation: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/06/12/ms-steps-snapdragon/ (MS steps on a Snapdragon)" | Jun 15 09:34 |
schestowitz | "And here's a picture and video of it: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/12339/eee_pc_spotted_running_android_qualcomm_1ghz_cpu/ ("Eee PC spotted running Android + Qualcomm 1GHz CPU ) I hadn't watched the video when I sent you the link, man, it is scary. Intel and Microsoft have to be shaking in their boots." | Jun 15 09:34 |
schestowitz | from a reader who wrote in.. | Jun 15 09:34 |
fewa | the lion is starting it offensive | Jun 15 09:42 |
schestowitz | Yes, red lion | Jun 15 09:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Accused of Smearing the Competition in Consoles, Amid Trouble < http://ping.fm/YjMeo > | Jun 15 10:05 | |
oiaohm | Really I expected snapdragon to disappear for a bit. | Jun 15 10:06 |
oiaohm | you have nvidia arm based chip as well entering the market. | Jun 15 10:07 |
fewa | nvidia ARM? | Jun 15 10:15 |
kentma | lots of companies do ARM processsors. | Jun 15 10:16 |
kentma | TI, Intel... | Jun 15 10:16 |
MinceR | Qualcomm | Jun 15 10:17 |
kentma | Nvidia :-) | Jun 15 10:17 |
MinceR | :) | Jun 15 10:18 |
kentma | There were some rumours of Apple doing an ARM chip | Jun 15 10:18 |
MinceR | lol | Jun 15 10:19 |
fewa | but they dont really have much to do with it | Jun 15 10:19 |
MinceR | they don't do anything on their own | Jun 15 10:19 |
MinceR | except marketing and crap GUIs | Jun 15 10:19 |
kentma | It's interesting to consider that ARM grew from Acorn, and Acorn were mainly hugely successful due to the BBC Micro | Jun 15 10:19 |
fewa | they buy the IP from Marvell/Freescale, then change a few things, then contract out its production to taiwan | Jun 15 10:19 |
MinceR | ic | Jun 15 10:19 |
kentma | Thus, the UK TV licence fee payer can be thanked for ARM :-) | Jun 15 10:19 |
fewa | NVidia actually designs chips | Jun 15 10:20 |
fewa | but not ARM ones | Jun 15 10:20 |
fewa | AFAIK | Jun 15 10:20 |
kentma | there has been talk of an ARM Nvidia chip | Jun 15 10:20 |
kentma | ARM reckon to have over 200 licensees | Jun 15 10:21 |
kentma | and in 2006, there were, apparently, 2.45 US bn chips shipped. | Jun 15 10:23 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Anti-Google Whisper Campaign < http://ping.fm/FGMiT > | Jun 15 10:50 | |
oiaohm | fewa Nvidia is doing a chip particularly for the lower end of the market combined Nvidia gpu + arm processor. | Jun 15 11:25 |
fewa | must be video uses | Jun 15 11:26 |
fewa | like 1080p | Jun 15 11:26 |
oiaohm | Targeted at netbook class machines. | Jun 15 11:26 |
oiaohm | Nvidia has wanted into the CPU game for a while. Cannot get x86 licence so a chance to get in market another way they will take it. | Jun 15 11:27 |
kentma | consider that Intel already have an opengl video chipset with oss driver. | Jun 15 11:27 |
kentma | the concern I have is that we still don't have a 3d nvidia oss driver. | Jun 15 11:28 |
oiaohm | Nvidia is the last hold out with specs. | Jun 15 11:28 |
kentma | I do wonder why they hold out. The high-end GPU game is dead and buried now. | Jun 15 11:29 |
oiaohm | Its not dead and buried. | Jun 15 11:29 |
kentma | Desktop is dead (sorry everyone, but...), so it's time to look at ultra-low-power and so on. | Jun 15 11:29 |
oiaohm | Movie rendering. | Jun 15 11:29 |
kentma | oiaohm: look at the sales figures. Nobody is buying. | Jun 15 11:29 |
oiaohm | They are still buying. | Jun 15 11:30 |
kentma | oiaohm: that's very specialist, tiny numbers - it's not mass market. | Jun 15 11:30 |
oiaohm | Specialist true. | Jun 15 11:30 |
oiaohm | They are about the only ones who buy quad card systems+ | Jun 15 11:30 |
oiaohm | Stuff that is like 30 thousand per machine. | Jun 15 11:31 |
kentma | what's dead is the desktop market, and the high-end desktop market which went with it, at least as a "mass market" product. Most people are using gaming consoles at home (again), and the few niches around, like video rendering, are, well, niche. | Jun 15 11:31 |
oiaohm | Very profitiable niche | Jun 15 11:31 |
oiaohm | That burns through card. | Jun 15 11:31 |
oiaohm | cards. | Jun 15 11:31 |
MinceR | why can't nvidia get an x86 licence? | Jun 15 11:32 |
MinceR | doesn't intel have to sell those to everyone? | Jun 15 11:32 |
oiaohm | Intel is not the only licence you need to get. | Jun 15 11:32 |
MinceR | as for the high-end gpu game, games are still alive. | Jun 15 11:32 |
MinceR | oiaohm: what else? | Jun 15 11:32 |
oiaohm | intel amd and via all have patents over x86. | Jun 15 11:33 |
fewa | not profitable from me :P | Jun 15 11:33 |
MinceR | also, there are professional gpus too, like the nvidia quadro series | Jun 15 11:33 |
oiaohm | also so does sun. | Jun 15 11:33 |
MinceR | oiaohm: but they'd all have to license them, wouldn't they? | Jun 15 11:33 |
oiaohm | It price of licencing them. | Jun 15 11:33 |
fewa | problem is that computers are so powerful that they are pushing themselves out of the market | Jun 15 11:33 |
MinceR | or if nvidia is strong enough, they could buy one of the players | Jun 15 11:33 |
oiaohm | Nvidia has tried. | Jun 15 11:34 |
oiaohm | So far has not been able to buy out a player. | Jun 15 11:34 |
fewa | nvidia still ahs the best GPUs | Jun 15 11:34 |
MinceR | hm, if sun had patents, they've missed an opportunity | Jun 15 11:34 |
oiaohm | It part of what has kept sun alive MinceR | Jun 15 11:34 |
oiaohm | Most of the x86 cpu makers have cross licensing agreements. | Jun 15 11:35 |
oiaohm | Ie we will not charage you for our patents if you don't charage us for yours. | Jun 15 11:36 |
oiaohm | Basically without buying one of the cross licenced ones Nvidia cannot compete due to paying too much in licence with x86. | Jun 15 11:36 |
oiaohm | arm and mips open up another path for Nvidia to enter. | Jun 15 11:37 |
MinceR | is that a legal cartel? | Jun 15 11:37 |
oiaohm | Under current patent laws yes MinceR | Jun 15 11:37 |
MinceR | so much for the "free market" | Jun 15 11:38 |
oiaohm | We really screwed the market allowing a single cpu type to dominate. | Jun 15 11:40 |
MinceR | we really screwed the market allowing patents to be held for so long. | Jun 15 11:41 |
MinceR | (same with copyright) | Jun 15 11:41 |
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oiaohm | Patent system is majorally flawed. | Jun 15 11:42 |
oiaohm | There is also no requirement to sell patents at the same price either. | Jun 15 11:42 |
kentma | oiaohm: that would be an understatement of significant proportion... | Jun 15 11:43 |
oiaohm | So if I don't want someone competting with me its legal to sell them the use of the patent like a 1000 times as I sell to anyone else. | Jun 15 11:43 |
oiaohm | even nicer I can sell the patent under NDA so people who have it don't know they have been sold it at different prices. | Jun 15 11:44 |
oiaohm | Patents really should be a public sale item. | Jun 15 11:44 |
kentma | oiaohm: I'm 100% convinced that patents, like copyright, should belong to the originators of works, not their employers, or sold on, or anything else. I've been thinking this over for a while, and it seems like the only sensible approach. | Jun 15 11:45 |
oiaohm | Correcting sales correct free market operations. | Jun 15 11:46 |
kentma | The IET journal recently had an article explaining how any company should have an "IP" policy in place in order to make sure that they fantastic ideas their employees have remain the property of the shareholders, rather than the people who come up with the ideas, which would obviously be a disaster... | Jun 15 11:46 |
oiaohm | It would be nice if they where not transferable. For over all market correcting how they are sold and traded would cure a lot of problems. | Jun 15 11:47 |
oiaohm | And allow them to be investaged in cases of anti-trust. | Jun 15 11:47 |
oiaohm | I really do suspect there is a well of anti-trust actions going on with patents. | Jun 15 11:47 |
kentma | hold on... patents are, by definition, monopolies | Jun 15 11:48 |
oiaohm | Patents goals were to allow free trade of information. | Jun 15 11:48 |
fewa | oiaohm, did you watch that video? | Jun 15 11:48 |
oiaohm | The idea was that you could pay for use. | Jun 15 11:49 |
oiaohm | Patent documents were meet to open up information that would have been otherwise hidden in trade secrects. | Jun 15 11:50 |
kentma | oiaohm: err, not exactly, it was to recompense people for ideas | Jun 15 11:50 |
fewa | kentma, you should watch the video as well, points out some of the major flaws of the current patent system in the US http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0chez_Jf5A | Jun 15 11:50 |
fewa | kentma, patents are not meant to compensate people for ideas | Jun 15 11:50 |
kentma | fewa: I'll look it up, but I'm fairly well up to speed on most of this, to be honest. | Jun 15 11:50 |
oiaohm | When the first patent system was not formed over the ideas. | Jun 15 11:50 |
fewa | they are meant to increase the amount of innovation available to the public | Jun 15 11:51 |
kentma | The *original* patents were Royal Patents to grant monopolies to favoured people by the Monarch. | Jun 15 11:51 |
MinceR | 125912 < oiaohm> There is also no requirement to sell patents at the same price either. | Jun 15 11:51 |
MinceR | then that's another way we really screwed the market. | Jun 15 11:51 |
fewa | kentma, the speaker is a patent lawyer | Jun 15 11:51 |
oiaohm | Royal Patents did not grant a monopolies. | Jun 15 11:52 |
kentma | Do you realise that patents began in the UK? | Jun 15 11:52 |
kentma | oiaohm: yes they did. | Jun 15 11:52 |
oiaohm | Anyone could reproduce the item as long as they paid fair ammount. | Jun 15 11:52 |
kentma | oiaohm: no, they were a gift to favoured people. | Jun 15 11:52 |
fewa | kentma, you arnt listening to oiaohm's point | Jun 15 11:52 |
oiaohm | And they could call for judgement what was a fair ammount to pay. | Jun 15 11:52 |
MinceR | kentma: sure, but how would you determine who the originator really is? otherwise we'd see the majority owners of companies "originate" a lot of patents. | Jun 15 11:53 |
oiaohm | Current system has no requirement that the amount payed to patent holder has to be fair. | Jun 15 11:53 |
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fewa | MinceR, low quality, invalid patents are a huge problem of the patent system | Jun 15 11:53 |
oiaohm | Basically the Royal Patent system was nicer. | Jun 15 11:53 |
kentma | oiaohm: no, that's a much later system. The *original* system was a gift! | Jun 15 11:53 |
fewa | The patent holder can force nobody to practice it at all | Jun 15 11:54 |
fewa | kentma, you still dont get the argument | Jun 15 11:54 |
kentma | eg: Mar 5, 1496 - The King, as we before said, viewed the plans of Cabot favourably, and on the 5th March, 1496,* granted him and his three sons, Lewis, Sebastian, and Sanchius, a royal patent authorising them to sail " to all parts, couutrys, and seas, of the East, of the West | Jun 15 11:54 |
splosion | schestowitz: re the stuff about Xandros. Did you see this article? http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25661/1231/ | Jun 15 11:54 |
fewa | that US patents allow the holder to gain injunctions against anybody and prevent them from practicing the claim | Jun 15 11:54 |
kentma | fewa: I'm not having an argument. I'm pointing out that patents were originally a gift of a monopoly to a favoured person. | Jun 15 11:54 |
kentma | fewa: this is hundreds of years later... | Jun 15 11:55 |
schestowitz | splosion: I haven't yet | Jun 15 11:55 |
oiaohm | I was not thinking back to when patents were basically royal allowances kentma | Jun 15 11:55 |
oiaohm | They were not exculsive back then either kentma | Jun 15 11:55 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Accused of Lying About Market Share < http://ping.fm/00EiE > | Jun 15 11:55 | |
kentma | oiaohm: argg!! yes the bl**dy well were! | Jun 15 11:55 |
oiaohm | The king could issue multiable the same. | Jun 15 11:56 |
kentma | the whole point of a patent was that it was a gift worth money. | Jun 15 11:56 |
kentma | oiaohm: well, I've told you enough - why don't you look it up? | Jun 15 11:56 |
fewa | kentma, but what you are talking about is correlary to gangsters splitting up a city | Jun 15 11:56 |
fewa | Its alot a more relaxed form of feudalism | Jun 15 11:57 |
fewa | *more diverse | Jun 15 11:58 |
splosion | I submitted a patent-ish story to ./ a few hours ago. I'll go see how she's doing | Jun 15 11:58 |
oiaohm | In the king case the king was the true patent holder. The others were making money form the patent rights they had been given. | Jun 15 11:58 |
splosion | oooh. orange! | Jun 15 11:59 |
oiaohm | The trade was not secret. Amount given for it was known. | Jun 15 11:59 |
oiaohm | Current day amount given is secret. So system does not work well. | Jun 15 12:00 |
fewa | Judges need the ability to set prices | Jun 15 12:00 |
oiaohm | Or at least the means to make sure everyone is being sold at the same price. | Jun 15 12:01 |
fewa | as patents are supose to be an economic motivator of innovation its backwards when they are used to prevent research, prevent innovation, and stp discuptive tech | Jun 15 12:01 |
oiaohm | If all patents were priced in advance patents really would not get in way that much. | Jun 15 12:02 |
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fewa | as yes, patent deal should be public | Jun 15 12:02 |
oiaohm | Its really stupid that patent documents are public and there trades don't have to be. | Jun 15 12:02 |
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splosion | hrmm. About four zillion red stories in the hose. my story looks unlikely to get frontpaged. aww | Jun 15 12:05 |
oiaohm | Correctly working patent and copyright systems would not be much harm. | Jun 15 12:08 |
oiaohm | Most of the issues with both is unfair sales. | Jun 15 12:08 |
fewa | you cannot have a correctly work system with out solving the collective action problems, both of the public, and of the members of the system | Jun 15 12:09 |
fewa | patents are bad because there is no disincentive to obtain bad patents | Jun 15 12:09 |
fewa | *may patents are bad | Jun 15 12:09 |
oiaohm | What would be the motive to get bad patents if you could not really blackmail selected people with them. | Jun 15 12:10 |
fewa | you can | Jun 15 12:11 |
oiaohm | The unfair pricing allows them to be used more as weapons. | Jun 15 12:11 |
fewa | because the way the patent system works all patents are assumed valid after issue until a jury decieds otherwise | Jun 15 12:11 |
fewa | so it cost money and time to invalidate a patent, all while there is a temporry injunction against your business | Jun 15 12:11 |
oiaohm | Open pricing forces number 1 lower pricing. Number 2 everyone using it could also know. | Jun 15 12:11 |
fewa | leading you to bankruptcy | Jun 15 12:12 |
oiaohm | Current system makes fighting over patents 1 on 1. | Jun 15 12:12 |
oiaohm | Not 1 on many. | Jun 15 12:12 |
oiaohm | Ie patent holder vs many. | Jun 15 12:12 |
fewa | there is no disincentive in having a bad patent | Jun 15 12:12 |
fewa | as the alternative is no patent at all | Jun 15 12:12 |
oiaohm | I agree the should be costs from a patent being invalidated. | Jun 15 12:13 |
oiaohm | On the patent holder. | Jun 15 12:13 |
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oiaohm | Current sales system is the worse factor. Followed by no price for invalid patents. | Jun 15 12:14 |
alanbell1 | hi | Jun 15 12:14 |
_Mutex_ | patent issues are always 1 on 1, its the patent holder against the patent breaker, what's a "bad" patent. | Jun 15 12:14 |
fewa | the current patent system is composed of three elements | Jun 15 12:14 |
fewa | fear | Jun 15 12:14 |
fewa | uncertainty | Jun 15 12:14 |
fewa | and doubt | Jun 15 12:14 |
oiaohm | patent issues should not be 1 on 1. | Jun 15 12:14 |
oiaohm | When it comes to if the patent is valid or invalid. | Jun 15 12:15 |
_Mutex_ | The current patent system is composed of ONE element,,, | Jun 15 12:15 |
alanbell1 | just wondering what you guys think about the toshiba refusal to do windows refunds, as documented at http://nakedcomputers.org | Jun 15 12:15 |
_Mutex_ | THE LAW | Jun 15 12:15 |
oiaohm | It should be patent holder vs all users. | Jun 15 12:15 |
fewa | alanbell1, go to small claims court | Jun 15 12:15 |
fewa | I have read accounts that it worked great in california | Jun 15 12:15 |
oiaohm | The law allows class actions for a reason _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:15 |
fewa | or yes class action | Jun 15 12:15 |
alanbell1 | fewa: not my purchase, but I could do a purchase for the purposes of taking action, if I thought it was a good idea | Jun 15 12:16 |
oiaohm | All patent cases should be class actions of patent holder vs users of patent. | Jun 15 12:16 |
fewa | alanbell1, the law is on your side, if Microsoft or its OEMs deny a refund they greatly weaken their anti-competitive defences | Jun 15 12:16 |
oiaohm | Unless people have not paid for patents then 1 on 1. | Jun 15 12:16 |
_Mutex_ | the user does not breach a patent, the person (or company) that productes the goods that breach the patent is the LAW breaker. | Jun 15 12:16 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: user of patent. | Jun 15 12:17 |
oiaohm | Ie company producing the goods _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:17 |
_Mutex_ | You can argue what it "should" be all day, wont change a thing, it is what it is, most people accecpt that law as it stands, if you dont like it you work and vote to have it changed. | Jun 15 12:17 |
_Mutex_ | You, the company producing the goods, exactly. | Jun 15 12:17 |
_Mutex_ | Like tomtom, not the users of GPS's | Jun 15 12:18 |
fewa | _Mutex_, the court of appears has already changed much | Jun 15 12:18 |
_Mutex_ | thats good, and how it should be, but just because you dont agree with the existing laws does not give you a RIGHT to break it. | Jun 15 12:19 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: talking about problem is part of fighting it. To attack something you need a platform that everyone can agree on. | Jun 15 12:19 |
schestowitz | Toshiba? | Jun 15 12:19 |
schestowitz | I heard of it before. | Jun 15 12:20 |
schestowitz | I think we wrote about it | Jun 15 12:20 |
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oiaohm | Remember pen is more powerful than a sword. | Jun 15 12:20 |
_Mutex_ | talking about it is a very poor way to fight it, you need to do a little more, mabey talk to someone who can actually make a change, like your elected leaders. But talking about it here (for example) just makes you more frustrated, as its basically totally ineffectual. Like who here will loby or work to change the law ? and how ? | Jun 15 12:22 |
_Mutex_ | It is, used correctly,, yes | Jun 15 12:22 |
oiaohm | Do you think I don't do that already _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:22 |
_Mutex_ | so whining about it here is effective, and achieve the results you are seeking ? hows that working for you ? | Jun 15 12:22 |
_Mutex_ | I hope you do,, and good on you for that.. | Jun 15 12:22 |
_Mutex_ | thats what should be done,, well done | Jun 15 12:23 |
oiaohm | What I was doing was aligning view. | Jun 15 12:23 |
fewa | ignore the trolls | Jun 15 12:23 |
oiaohm | Talking to people in all different places is required to work out the most effective alignment to use _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:23 |
alanbell1 | schestowitz: can't find any article about toshiba specifically | Jun 15 12:23 |
_Mutex_ | you right, but as you said, as some stage you actually have to do a touch more than just talk, its a start (but a small one). and you guys have been at this for a long time now. Years.. | Jun 15 12:24 |
oiaohm | Besides once we have alignment there is no reason why a irc channel could not be used to rally an event. There no point having a rally to do something if you end up fighting with each other. | Jun 15 12:25 |
_Mutex_ | thats right | Jun 15 12:25 |
oiaohm | I was basically checking that my view will align. | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | alanbell1: I think we covered the same URL | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | http://nakedcomputers.org | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | And spoke about Tooshiba | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | Let me check | Jun 15 12:27 |
alanbell1 | the toshiba thing is new | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | BTW, "naked" is a bad word here | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | It's MS' way of making it sound bad | Jun 15 12:27 |
schestowitz | Rather than "clean PC" or "open PC" | Jun 15 12:28 |
alanbell1 | I am reclaiming it! | Jun 15 12:28 |
alanbell1 | naked is good | Jun 15 12:28 |
splosion | I'd love to get a naked PC. good stuff, despite the disparaging term | Jun 15 12:28 |
oiaohm | I love it. | Jun 15 12:28 |
oiaohm | EULA provided in windows is contrary documentation. | Jun 15 12:29 |
oiaohm | So the sticker is void. | Jun 15 12:29 |
oiaohm | It more a bluff. | Jun 15 12:29 |
alanbell1 | well the notwithstanding bit attempts to override the EULA | Jun 15 12:30 |
_Mutex_ | im sure its very easy here to get your view "aligned", when you are talking to a very small group that think exactly as you do, probably better to see how um, "average" man on the street feels about your idea, nothing will be possible without public support, without public support you just look like a splinter group of radicales. which im sure you dont want to look like, mabey form a fund for a PR rep and lobyists for your cause. | Jun 15 12:30 |
splosion | is it too much to scratch the Windows-logo off my keyboard's super buttons? | Jun 15 12:30 |
_Mutex_ | I can buy blank hard drives here in Australia, no problem | Jun 15 12:30 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: I do. | Jun 15 12:30 |
_Mutex_ | great | Jun 15 12:30 |
oiaohm | This is just small bit. _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:31 |
fewa | splosion, i have a apple keyboard without those logos :P | Jun 15 12:31 |
oiaohm | notwithstanding bit is the trap alanbell1 | Jun 15 12:32 |
oiaohm | Without it they would be in breach of EULA | Jun 15 12:32 |
_Mutex_ | I can also buy all the other components, or go and buy a PC complete with NO os, or with windows and OSS browsers from the OEM. there is very little or no real lockin here, unless you go to a big department store. | Jun 15 12:32 |
splosion | I want a keyboard with those keys labelled as "Awesome" buttons | Jun 15 12:32 |
fewa | but they cant do that | Jun 15 12:32 |
oiaohm | If you ring up tooshibiba and quote the EULA they will refund. | Jun 15 12:33 |
oiaohm | Even if that sticker is on the device. | Jun 15 12:33 |
alanbell1 | _Mutex_: harder to buy a naked laptop. Especially if you want a specific model. | Jun 15 12:33 |
alanbell1 | oiaohm: I don't want one refund. | Jun 15 12:33 |
alanbell1 | I want them to stop doing it. | Jun 15 12:33 |
oiaohm | As I say it is just a trick fewa | Jun 15 12:33 |
oiaohm | Evil trick. | Jun 15 12:33 |
oiaohm | They should be pulled over the coals for it. | Jun 15 12:33 |
_Mutex_ | so what responses have you recieved from your local politicians, and have you gained and commitments of support from them for your cause ? | Jun 15 12:33 |
fewa | oiaohm, but it just shows more anti-competitive microsoft action | Jun 15 12:34 |
_Mutex_ | yes laptops are harder, but you can still do it, you just have to ask. | Jun 15 12:34 |
splosion | If Linux was pre-installed on 90% of computers sold in shops, you'd see people complaining about getting Windows too. You'd see people claiming Windows isn't ready for the desktop too. | Jun 15 12:34 |
fewa | funny thing is that vista is less ready for desktops than linux is | Jun 15 12:34 |
fewa | especially vista 7 | Jun 15 12:35 |
_Mutex_ | its not an issue of popularity, its an issue of functionality.. Unix (and therefore Linux) was around for 15 to 20 years before MS or windows even existed. | Jun 15 12:35 |
oiaohm | Particularly with me trying 2.6.30 Linux kernel. Other than a few issues with old sound libs everything is working basically perfectly. | Jun 15 12:35 |
_Mutex_ | MS was also way over commodor Pet, and Mac. | Jun 15 12:35 |
splosion | it's a matter of opinion, really. But my point remainds valid. The choice to build a PC from scratch or to ask the retailer to do you a deal isn't really a good one. It's a start, but it's hardly fair | Jun 15 12:35 |
fewa | _Mutex_, dont make that stupid argument Linux != commercial UNIX | Jun 15 12:36 |
alanbell1 | _Mutex_: the hardness of buying naked computers is why I set up a directory of good suppliers. I don't want a naked computer to be a special request, under the counter or top shelf type of purchase. | Jun 15 12:36 |
oiaohm | Thinking that Linux is a long way to becoming a full RTOS that no commercial UNIX has ever been. | Jun 15 12:36 |
_Mutex_ | little is "fair" in business, its a cut throat world, that if you wan to play in, they make the rules, if you wan to play you have to do it right. and NO im not saying its good or bad, it is what it is. | Jun 15 12:37 |
oiaohm | RTOS supportting kernels are commonly used by people reworking audio. | Jun 15 12:37 |
fewa | _Mutex_, thats why Microsoft is dyin | Jun 15 12:37 |
fewa | Microsoft cant compete with their slower form or innovation | Jun 15 12:38 |
oiaohm | Windows 7 is really a laugh. | Jun 15 12:38 |
_Mutex_ | Linux is no where near a RTOS, and probably will never be, unless its completely re-written from scratch for that purpose, QNX is a fully POSIX RTOS, its been done allready. | Jun 15 12:38 |
oiaohm | LOL _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:39 |
_Mutex_ | making a monolithic OS, RTOS is hard,, | Jun 15 12:39 |
_Mutex_ | if not impossible | Jun 15 12:39 |
oiaohm | Its less than 1 meg of code off. | Jun 15 12:39 |
oiaohm | The final cpu management alterations is all that is missing _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:39 |
fewa | Its just like the vetern Office developer: "Microsoft itself represents a grave threat to the future of software development through its increasing inclination to stifle competition through legal shenanigans" | Jun 15 12:39 |
oiaohm | The rest is mainline in 2.6.30 kernels _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:39 |
oiaohm | So its not impossible with a patch you can have Linux kernel a true RTOS today. | Jun 15 12:40 |
_Mutex_ | I dont think you have a good understanding of what an RTOS is or what its structure is like, ! but fair enough, but you should look it up, and do some study. Not that RTOS is really much good for most of what Linux does. | Jun 15 12:41 |
fewa | yeah Linux real time is right there, fully interruptible kernel code | Jun 15 12:41 |
oiaohm | Audio processing people do use linux with that patch _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:41 |
_Mutex_ | THere are other RTOS allready filling that market. | Jun 15 12:41 |
_Mutex_ | Audio processing is not an RTOS function, its a batch process. | Jun 15 12:41 |
oiaohm | Every in the Linux kernel can be overriden to meet a RTOS requirement _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:41 |
_Mutex_ | you dont need predictable responce and latency times, to process and chunk of data, and you dont need interrupt driven functions, and immediate excetpions handing. | Jun 15 12:42 |
oiaohm | Real time processing of audio is not a batch process _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:42 |
fewa | _Mutex_, and you are defending Windows, which cant even use a hardware audio stack? | Jun 15 12:42 |
_Mutex_ | Also RTOS, take functionality away from the USER as first priority, so it actually give a lower quality user experience, as they are second to background RTOS functions. THe USER can wail he /she does not matter. (for RTOS's) | Jun 15 12:43 |
_Mutex_ | No im commenting on the State of FOSS. | Jun 15 12:43 |
_Mutex_ | I have not even mentioned any other OS have I ? | Jun 15 12:44 |
fewa | _Mutex_, welcome to the compile time options of linux | Jun 15 12:44 |
_Mutex_ | Windows is NOT RTOS either, | Jun 15 12:44 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: You are critical wrong. | Jun 15 12:44 |
oiaohm | RTOS support does not have to take away users controls. | Jun 15 12:44 |
_Mutex_ | You cannot just set some compiler switches and amazingly build an RTOS, | Jun 15 12:44 |
oiaohm | If user wants particular feature to be done exacty when they need a RTOS is useful. | Jun 15 12:44 |
_Mutex_ | RTOS's put the user LAST, over the RT bit, | Jun 15 12:45 |
oiaohm | The complete internal struct of Linux were altered to make it RTOS. | Jun 15 12:45 |
oiaohm | At times that is exactly what the user wants _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:45 |
_Mutex_ | really, so linux kernel is all interrupt driven now ?, I dont think so. | Jun 15 12:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Antitrust in Europe, Russia, South Korea < http://ping.fm/HONow > | Jun 15 12:45 | |
_Mutex_ | what times ? | Jun 15 12:45 |
_Mutex_ | in what situation s/ | Jun 15 12:45 |
fewa | _Mutex_, your completely missing it | Jun 15 12:46 |
_Mutex_ | im sorry im not, | Jun 15 12:46 |
oiaohm | Linux kernel can currently operate completely interrupt driven if that is your wish. | Jun 15 12:46 |
_Mutex_ | would you like to then explain to me what an RTOS does, and how its generally achieved ? | Jun 15 12:46 |
oiaohm | Linux is a flexable system. | Jun 15 12:46 |
oiaohm | You are thinking 1 state systems. | Jun 15 12:47 |
oiaohm | Linux can have items operating with RT requirement to be ment or it can have nothing with RT requirements. | Jun 15 12:47 |
_Mutex_ | um no im not | Jun 15 12:47 |
fewa | you are | Jun 15 12:47 |
oiaohm | It operates anywhere between a genernal OS and a full blown RTOS. | Jun 15 12:47 |
_Mutex_ | ok sure :) | Jun 15 12:47 |
fewa | you said that functions of a kernel cant be decided during compile time | Jun 15 12:47 |
oiaohm | If users as tasks that are time critical or items that must be respond to time critical. | Jun 15 12:48 |
oiaohm | They can make those items RTOS with a RTOS patched Linux kernel. | Jun 15 12:48 |
oiaohm | It is at the users control. _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:48 |
_Mutex_ | sorry, but thats a dream, you clearly have little concept of what an RTOS IS. but thats ok, mabey your not a programmer, or mabey you dont have experience with RTOS's or what they are used for. and its not ripping audio files or batch processes. | Jun 15 12:49 |
oiaohm | I could see lexmark printer drivers using this. | Jun 15 12:49 |
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oiaohm | So they don't bash into side of printer. | Jun 15 12:49 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: there are RTOS patches for Linux. | Jun 15 12:50 |
_Mutex_ | so what RTOS METHODS does it employ? there are about 6 main ones, but y ou know that right | Jun 15 12:50 |
oiaohm | The form of RTOS for audio is live events. Where person is playing real time. So stuff has to be qued and are being overrided on fly. _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:51 |
_Mutex_ | semephores ?? or something else ? | Jun 15 12:51 |
MinceR | what have semaphores have to do with that? semaphores are supported in stock linux | Jun 15 12:51 |
_Mutex_ | there you go queing is not RT | Jun 15 12:51 |
MinceR | the patch i knew about was https://www.rtai.org/ | Jun 15 12:52 |
MinceR | but searching for "real-time linux" turns up lots of projects | Jun 15 12:52 |
splosion | http://www.rtlinuxfree.com/ | Jun 15 12:52 |
splosion | for example | Jun 15 12:52 |
oiaohm | http://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page << This is the main one going mainline for real time support. | Jun 15 12:53 |
_Mutex_ | ofcourse it has, but its how its used, and what else its used. its how tasking is handled, memory, inter-task comms, system calls, interrups, premptive, critical, and most importantly task priority, and inerrrupt letency. | Jun 15 12:54 |
MinceR | http://www.mvista.com/real_time_linux.php | Jun 15 12:54 |
oiaohm | premptive is the last bit _Mutex_ | Jun 15 12:54 |
fewa | _Mutex_, the source is right there | Jun 15 12:54 |
fewa | a git clone away | Jun 15 12:54 |
MinceR | preemptible kernel has been in mainline for a long time | Jun 15 12:54 |
oiaohm | RT preemptive is not there. | Jun 15 12:55 |
MinceR | preemptive multitasking has been in it from the start | Jun 15 12:55 |
oiaohm | Ie event triggered. | Jun 15 12:55 |
_Mutex_ | preemptive multitalking is NOT the same thing, but yes your right its been in software ever since the invention of the L1, L2, L3 cache, | Jun 15 12:56 |
oiaohm | inter-task, memory, system calls and interrupts are all basically solved. | Jun 15 12:58 |
oiaohm | for RT support. | Jun 15 12:59 |
_Mutex_ | ok, no problems, | Jun 15 12:59 |
oiaohm | Linux is a long way down the path to becoming a RTOS. | Jun 15 12:59 |
oiaohm | Its only been worked on for 6 years. | Jun 15 12:59 |
_Mutex_ | yea, thats a long time, | Jun 15 13:00 |
oiaohm | Its not something they just did over night and its one of the major reason why the internal abi of the linux kernel has been changing so much. | Jun 15 13:00 |
oiaohm | RCU support tech from IBM was a great assistance in many places. | Jun 15 13:01 |
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_Mutex_ | ok but for what ends is this done for ? No one wants or needs an RTOS on teh desktop, or the server, but it does have uses, but that field is also allready supported by Linux/Unix type products, that have that 6 years + in maturity, not development. again QNX springs to mind. | Jun 15 13:02 |
MinceR | well, the BeOS guys wanted an RTOS on the desktop, didn't they? | Jun 15 13:03 |
MinceR | afaik it's useful for making a single-core mobile phone | Jun 15 13:03 |
MinceR | (iirc that's what MontaVista was aiming for) | Jun 15 13:03 |
MinceR | remember Linux isn't desktop-only | Jun 15 13:03 |
oiaohm | Funny enough fixes for RTOS support has reduced time in kernel space _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:04 |
oiaohm | So increasing the performance of desktop and server. | Jun 15 13:04 |
_Mutex_ | its great and intended for embedded, not desktop, RTOS's put function first but the USER second, so user experience can be less with RTOS, as you wait for critical tasks (higher than you) do complete. IF thats what y ou want ok. | Jun 15 13:04 |
oiaohm | User mode drivers _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:05 |
oiaohm | They are kinda time critical. | Jun 15 13:05 |
oiaohm | Some of them. | Jun 15 13:05 |
oiaohm | There is a requirement in the desktop. | Jun 15 13:05 |
_Mutex_ | if your doing something it does not matter, if the OS gets a "job" it will drop you and deal with it RIGHT NOW IN REAL TIME. you will NOT be the no.1 thing the OS cares about. | Jun 15 13:06 |
_Mutex_ | for what ? | Jun 15 13:06 |
_Mutex_ | on the desktop ? | Jun 15 13:06 |
oiaohm | Brain dead printer come to mind. | Jun 15 13:06 |
oiaohm | There are others. | Jun 15 13:06 |
_Mutex_ | printer, is batched, Really. | Jun 15 13:06 |
_Mutex_ | do better | Jun 15 13:06 |
oiaohm | No | Jun 15 13:06 |
_Mutex_ | and NOT RT | Jun 15 13:06 |
oiaohm | some printers dont' have a cpu internally. | Jun 15 13:07 |
_Mutex_ | I know that | Jun 15 13:07 |
_Mutex_ | but its NOT a real time function | Jun 15 13:07 |
oiaohm | So cpu of computer is required to tell them to stop and not break self. | Jun 15 13:07 |
oiaohm | By hitting into side of printer. | Jun 15 13:07 |
_Mutex_ | a print job is not RT | Jun 15 13:07 |
_Mutex_ | has never been, not will ever be | Jun 15 13:08 |
oiaohm | should not be. | Jun 15 13:08 |
_Mutex_ | you dont get a printer generating an interrupt and saying DEAL WITH ME RIGHT NOW. | Jun 15 13:08 |
oiaohm | There are some cheep lexmarks that do break self if you have load at the wrong time. | Jun 15 13:08 |
_Mutex_ | generally you hit the PRINT KEY, and it goes off and does the job. | Jun 15 13:08 |
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_Mutex_ | you dont understand what an RTOS does, its not driving a printer. sorry | Jun 15 13:09 |
oiaohm | Usermode drivers in Linux can be driving basically anything _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:09 |
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_Mutex_ | I know, but that does not make them Real time critical tasks, surly y ou know that right ? | Jun 15 13:09 |
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oiaohm | Depends on the item _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:10 |
stevendh | Hello | Jun 15 13:10 |
_Mutex_ | It depends on the task, batch jobs, and user selected tasks like PRINT are not real time. | Jun 15 13:10 |
_Mutex_ | Hello steve | Jun 15 13:10 |
stevendh | question: does anybody know what happend to this lawsuit: http://slated.org/microsoft_kills_baby | Jun 15 13:10 |
stevendh | ? | Jun 15 13:11 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: driving a lexmark printers some of them is very much a real time job. Normal print goes to a que and you are right. But having to tell devices to stop at exact points and send data at exact times because the internals of the device are basically cache and cpu less. Its a reason why some lexmark printers don't have Linux drivers and they do break under windows as well. Kinda too cheep. | Jun 15 13:13 |
splosion | http://www.eetimes.eu/217800001 Haha, Google caused the current economic crisis | Jun 15 13:14 |
kentma | out of court settlement most likely, for a some of money so huge that you'd need all the seven dwarfs to help you carry it, in order to keep the involved parties from ever speaking a word about it. That's my guess - gag the press. | Jun 15 13:15 |
stevendh | kentma: I can't seem to find some other outcome easily, so your answer seems very likely | Jun 15 13:16 |
kentma | I meant "sum" of course :-) | Jun 15 13:16 |
stevendh | though ms seemed very confident that it was the parent's fault their house burned down. | Jun 15 13:16 |
kentma | I suspect that the lawyers were progressing the case until the spinmasters heard of it and then promptly jumped to the rescue "loss, if any..." | Jun 15 13:17 |
_Mutex_ | so the xbox drew SO much current from power that its caught on fire,,, PLEASE SPARE ME. | Jun 15 13:18 |
*stevendh shudders at hearing "loss, if any" | Jun 15 13:18 | |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: They cut cost on materials. | Jun 15 13:19 |
_Mutex_ | would not be the TV that draws hughly more current than an xbox | Jun 15 13:19 |
oiaohm | It was not the draw was the problem. | Jun 15 13:19 |
fewa | stevendh, and Microsoft had already recalled power cables over fire concerns | Jun 15 13:19 |
oiaohm | It was the complete construction of the power supply unit _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:19 |
fewa | they knew they had a faulty product | Jun 15 13:19 |
_Mutex_ | cutting cost on materials does not make an xbox draw enough current to melt the power point,, sorry thats just stupid. | Jun 15 13:19 |
fewa | and they still blamed the victim | Jun 15 13:19 |
oiaohm | It was going to over heat and burn _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:19 |
fewa | damn | Jun 15 13:20 |
oiaohm | Removing a cooling fan from designs is never a good thing _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:20 |
kentma | fewa: it was appalling | Jun 15 13:20 |
kentma | fewa: downright dangerous. | Jun 15 13:20 |
fewa | kentma, just disgusting | Jun 15 13:20 |
_Mutex_ | so what, there is NO way an xbox can draw 5 or 10 amps OR MORE that would be required to set the CABLE on fire, thats a joke. | Jun 15 13:20 |
fewa | disgusting, and morally despicable | Jun 15 13:21 |
oiaohm | Power supply melts and becomes a direct short _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:21 |
kentma | fewa: but, there's a track record here... I suspect that there wasn't much of a need to drop much lower than prevoius behaviour. | Jun 15 13:21 |
oiaohm | So yep defective powersupply units _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:21 |
_Mutex_ | its appalling that you pick ONE item from that is obviously simply an overloaded powerboard. C'mon lets keep it sane here | Jun 15 13:21 |
oiaohm | Can more than burn your houses wiring out _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:21 |
_Mutex_ | DO THE MATH, | Jun 15 13:21 |
fewa | they deserve to get a multi-million dollar payment for such disgrace and damages | Jun 15 13:21 |
_Mutex_ | so it would not be that the house did not have a fuse or circuit braker right ??? | Jun 15 13:22 |
oiaohm | You do know 1 in 2000 overload protected powerboards normally does not work. | Jun 15 13:22 |
_Mutex_ | NO it would not be as simple as a fuse designed to stop this, to occur, | Jun 15 13:22 |
_Mutex_ | no it has to be evil MS, not a fuse with a nail in it, or a faulty house wiring, (like it allways is). | Jun 15 13:23 |
oiaohm | They also removed the overload switch from the power supply design. | Jun 15 13:23 |
oiaohm | That saves a nice 15 cents. | Jun 15 13:23 |
kentma | fewa: I suspect that they probably had all of that and more, in order to keep the family completely silent about their appalling loss | Jun 15 13:23 |
_Mutex_ | BUT NOT FROM THE FREAKING HOUSE !!! | Jun 15 13:23 |
kentma | oiaohm: oops. | Jun 15 13:23 |
fewa | they can sue for trauma | Jun 15 13:23 |
kentma | oiaohm: crowbar designs were always good. Saved many a television over the decades. | Jun 15 13:23 |
fewa | as well | Jun 15 13:23 |
_Mutex_ | Did MS go to their place and remove the mains fuse, or weld the circuit breaker shut ?? | Jun 15 13:23 |
kentma | fewa: not if they reached a settlement, one suspects. | Jun 15 13:23 |
fewa | moral blasphemy | Jun 15 13:24 |
_Mutex_ | My god, sometimes, the comments here, comtain almost ZERO thought | Jun 15 13:24 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: circuit breakers are not instant. | Jun 15 13:24 |
kentma | fewa: It's hard to know where to begin on that story, to be honest. | Jun 15 13:24 |
stevendh | settlements just prevent bad press, not necesarily to do with real damage or guilt | Jun 15 13:24 |
oiaohm | A strong enough direct short with a circuit breaker or a fuse can still light wiring. | Jun 15 13:24 |
oiaohm | Particularly if wiring is over 10 years old. | Jun 15 13:24 |
_Mutex_ | Im an electronics engineer I KNOW, but they DO work, and they will trip WAY before wiring melts and you should damn well know that. | Jun 15 13:24 |
kentma | circuit breakers? On mains circuits, mine come in at 30 Amps... 30 amps @ 240volts! | Jun 15 13:24 |
_Mutex_ | thats the moral blasphemy | Jun 15 13:24 |
kentma | That's ~ 10kW! | Jun 15 13:25 |
kentma | My immersion heater is only 7kW | Jun 15 13:25 |
_Mutex_ | That will be for your oven, GPS (powerpoints) are 10 amps rated. | Jun 15 13:25 |
_Mutex_ | ie 2.4Kw | Jun 15 13:25 |
oiaohm | In the xbox case heat sink become the short between wires. | Jun 15 13:25 |
fewa | Microsoft hardware is all crap | Jun 15 13:25 |
_Mutex_ | Nice sweeping statement, but in this case, its not the products on teh power circuit, ITS THE POWER CIRCUIT. | Jun 15 13:26 |
kentma | fewa: I've only ever seen their mice. | Jun 15 13:26 |
oiaohm | All it takes is a set of failures _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:26 |
fewa | 360s had some of the lowest yields in the business | Jun 15 13:26 |
stevendh | suppose the house's wiring was crap; isn't the power supply supposed *not* to catch fire anyway? | Jun 15 13:27 |
_Mutex_ | NO its does not, do some study, | Jun 15 13:27 |
oiaohm | The power supply it self should have been better designed. | Jun 15 13:27 |
oiaohm | There over ride switch should have still been there. | Jun 15 13:27 |
fewa | _Mutex_, its the same argument the car companies made, that it was always the drivers fault | Jun 15 13:27 |
oiaohm | Power supply should have had suitable cooling. | Jun 15 13:27 |
fewa | when they had cars that impaled people needlessly | Jun 15 13:27 |
_Mutex_ | the article said the WIRING caught on fire, its is obviously an overloaded power circuit, and not fuse of circut breaker. | Jun 15 13:27 |
oiaohm | So it did not overheat. | Jun 15 13:27 |
stevendh | fewa: "needlessly"... | Jun 15 13:28 |
oiaohm | Matterials holding the heat sink should not have been meltable. | Jun 15 13:28 |
kentma | stevendh: the house wiring's circuit breakers are to protect the house wiring - they cannot protect appliances connected to it. | Jun 15 13:28 |
_Mutex_ | Of course, but if the power supply is able to get that hot, its drawing more current than is SUPPOSED to be delivered without the fuse blowing. | Jun 15 13:28 |
fewa | stevendh, ok, they had fins and styling that would catch on peoples clothes, reflect and blind drivers, etc | Jun 15 13:28 |
_Mutex_ | Sorry, but on this I have to call you on FUD. | Jun 15 13:28 |
fewa | no seat belts, etc | Jun 15 13:28 |
oiaohm | Xbox360 powersupplies over heat proving the power they should have. | Jun 15 13:28 |
fewa | yet they blamed always the driver, or the engineer of the road | Jun 15 13:29 |
oiaohm | In about 8 hours. | Jun 15 13:29 |
kentma | stevendh: so soft bumpers, steel steering wheels with no padding... | Jun 15 13:29 |
oiaohm | Start melting at about 18. | Jun 15 13:29 |
oiaohm | Note over heat shutoff is missing _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:29 |
kentma | fewa: I believe the Ford Pinto changed the rules in the end. | Jun 15 13:29 |
oiaohm | Basically it was a 100 percent unsafe powersupply _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:29 |
fewa | kentma, and Ralph Nader's Unsafe at Any Speed | Jun 15 13:29 |
kentma | fewa: :-) | Jun 15 13:29 |
_Mutex_ | say all you like for wiring to catch fire the fuse or CCT breaker had to be defeated, end of story. | Jun 15 13:29 |
oiaohm | Reason why MS ended up having to recall lots of them _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:29 |
fewa | kentma, which GM responded to by hiring private investigators to fallow his around | Jun 15 13:30 |
fewa | instead of fixing its cars | Jun 15 13:30 |
_Mutex_ | buy a book on BASIC electricity, learn OHMS law | Jun 15 13:30 |
oiaohm | Should powersupply been shipped without any form of internal overload protection _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:30 |
kentma | fewa: it's less expensive to harrass someone than to fix a design flaw - precisely what MS were trying to do with their baby-killing Xbox | Jun 15 13:30 |
kentma | oiaohm: it's surprising it ever got EU type approval. | Jun 15 13:31 |
fewa | and thats why you have to fight back against harassment | Jun 15 13:31 |
oiaohm | Its not like circuit breakers don't fail. _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:31 |
fewa | get injunctions against it, get damages | Jun 15 13:31 |
_Mutex_ | CCT breakers are FAIL SAFE, if they fail they open | Jun 15 13:31 |
oiaohm | Everything is meant to be designed double point of fail. | Jun 15 13:31 |
_Mutex_ | its called good design | Jun 15 13:31 |
fewa | incite public outrage | Jun 15 13:31 |
_Mutex_ | just like a fuse | Jun 15 13:31 |
oiaohm | As with all thing made by humans they should fail open. Does not mean they always will _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:31 |
kentma | fewa: I don't think that MS have all that many friends any more. Something like this could turn them into "public enemy" | Jun 15 13:32 |
_Mutex_ | well they never do, and there are billions and billions of them everywhere | Jun 15 13:32 |
oiaohm | MS powersupply missing the secound levels of protection completely was insane. | Jun 15 13:32 |
fewa | but the more outraged people are the more they may listen to issues of patent and copyright | Jun 15 13:32 |
fewa | and monopolies | Jun 15 13:32 |
oiaohm | Heck the powersupply alone with the right matterials on it could have lit up house _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:33 |
kentma | fewa: perhaps, although I don't think that your average man in the street cares a jot for either of these issues. they do care a lot about babies, though. | Jun 15 13:33 |
_Mutex_ | that also cant happen because every product has to be sold with a c tick and you cant get that if you dont have all the correct safety incorportated. | Jun 15 13:33 |
fewa | i guess | Jun 15 13:33 |
_Mutex_ | face it, your scraping the bottom of the barrell for FUD, sorry im the voice of reason, but what your saying is not helping you, just confirming your poor understanding of umm,, things.. | Jun 15 13:34 |
kentma | Now, if you could find a way of making patent, copyright and monopoly interesting to the man in the street, that would be something. | Jun 15 13:34 |
kentma | But I can't think of how. At least, not yet, anyway :-) | Jun 15 13:34 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: designed approved was not the designed shipped _Mutex_. MS did get into a lot of trouble over that. | Jun 15 13:34 |
stevendh | kentma: drm? | Jun 15 13:34 |
fewa | kentma, the man on the street does care about about prices | Jun 15 13:35 |
_Mutex_ | it is, if you ship, sell, or OWN a product not certified, you are criminal neglegent, so was Mom on the baby criminal ? | Jun 15 13:35 |
kentma | stevendh: again, most people were quite happy buying iPods and playing apple-only music. Heck, a few people even bought "plays for sure" before Microsoft killed it (for sure!) | Jun 15 13:35 |
_Mutex_ | or the country it happend in ? | Jun 15 13:35 |
kentma | fewa: true, very very true, yes. | Jun 15 13:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] various household phone calls made, agencies LARTed, f playing with a outside, now doing DWP paperwork online | Jun 15 13:35 | |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: it was tag as approved. | Jun 15 13:35 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: it was usa. MS blamed the supplier. | Jun 15 13:36 |
fewa | Its like DHL now has a system in the US where they manage a shipment, but they dont actually ship it | Jun 15 13:36 |
fewa | they just pay other carrier to do it | Jun 15 13:36 |
fewa | so you dont know which common carrier is responsible | Jun 15 13:36 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: MS could be telling the truth there. The parts removed would have made supplier more profit. | Jun 15 13:37 |
stevendh | some shady affair again... | Jun 15 13:37 |
kentma | fewa: when outsources start to outsource, you have to wonder just how the model really works. | Jun 15 13:37 |
_Mutex_ | us uses 120 volts not 240, (or 115), so the current is twice as high (as 240vac) Ohms law again, | Jun 15 13:37 |
fewa | _Mutex_, even if so Microsoft is at fault, must defend itsself, and then sue the supplier for negligence | Jun 15 13:37 |
_Mutex_ | and you cant remove parts, and even if you did, fact still remains, that the power supply should of shut down, | Jun 15 13:37 |
_Mutex_ | IT DID NOT | Jun 15 13:37 |
_Mutex_ | make whatever excuses you like, to justify your bias, but facts are facts. | Jun 15 13:38 |
stevendh | kentma: aren't at least some people realising "plays for sure" was a major scam? realising they've been ripped off? | Jun 15 13:38 |
fewa | _Mutex_, you are responsible for products you sell, even if a downstream supplier screwed up | Jun 15 13:38 |
_Mutex_ | yes, thats right | Jun 15 13:38 |
fewa | _Mutex_, the only recourse is to then resue your supplier for the losses | Jun 15 13:38 |
fewa | _Mutex_, but thats the companies internal business, not that of the consumer | Jun 15 13:39 |
_Mutex_ | but that does not matter, for ANY device to get hot enough to catch fire, the fuse, house wiring and circuit breaker IS THE FAULT. | Jun 15 13:39 |
kentma | stevendh: not really, no. Most people really don't care about this stuff at all. They read the tabloids, watch the soaps, go to clubs, watch footy, drink beer, have a beach holiday in the summer... | Jun 15 13:39 |
_Mutex_ | NOT ANY PRODUCT on the circuit, but the circuit itself. | Jun 15 13:39 |
oiaohm | MS is not alone for having cases using overseas supplier's in the usa to find items from circuirt board missing and basically bridged out. | Jun 15 13:39 |
oiaohm | It is a risk when dealing with the cheepest quote to make something. | Jun 15 13:40 |
stevendh | kentma: too many degrees of separation between everyone and someone who's $2000 music collection was flushed by ms? | Jun 15 13:40 |
fewa | stevendh, the FTC was talking about mandating that any DRM schemes employed in the US they would have to give the FTC a copy of the keys | Jun 15 13:41 |
_Mutex_ | so what, It does not matter if you throw a spanner across the circuit, it is designed and will shut off the power, it did not, it should have, its the house wiring and protection fault not a product connected to it. | Jun 15 13:41 |
stevendh | fewa: spectacular, has mpaa/riaa bought the ftc? | Jun 15 13:41 |
fewa | something that needs to be implamented | Jun 15 13:41 |
stevendh | otherwise: not gonna happen | Jun 15 13:41 |
oiaohm | Both were at fault _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:42 |
fewa | could just be talk | Jun 15 13:42 |
kentma | stevendh: probably, yes. Also, I think there's something of an "easy come, easy go" philosophy amongst our youthful generations. | Jun 15 13:42 |
_Mutex_ | Does MS manufacture xbox's or is it outsourced ? | Jun 15 13:42 |
kentma | stevendh: I'd call it waste... | Jun 15 13:42 |
oiaohm | outsourced the powersupply _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:42 |
oiaohm | I know that for sure. | Jun 15 13:42 |
oiaohm | they could have outsourced the complete thing. | Jun 15 13:43 |
_Mutex_ | Even if the xbox was at fault and it shorted out, (it happens with EVERYTHING sometimes) thats what the fuse and circuit breakers are for. | Jun 15 13:43 |
fewa | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/03/ftc-well-come-calling-about-deceptive-drm.ars | Jun 15 13:43 |
stevendh | oiaohm: both at fault, and to what degree? | Jun 15 13:43 |
_Mutex_ | things short out all the time., thats why you have fuses. | Jun 15 13:43 |
_Mutex_ | not both at fault, | Jun 15 13:43 |
oiaohm | Things should not be shipped in a state that is 100 percent sure it will short out | Jun 15 13:43 |
oiaohm | That is why its both. | Jun 15 13:44 |
_Mutex_ | um, they arent and thats fud, sorry but it is, and you know it. | Jun 15 13:44 |
stevendh | oiaohm: indeed, otherwise we wouldn't need certification of electrical devices | Jun 15 13:44 |
_Mutex_ | sorry who manufactures the xbox ? | Jun 15 13:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] oh, good Lord. #ie7 is actually worse to use than #ie6. horrible, horrible. | Jun 15 13:45 | |
_Mutex_ | then dont use it :) | Jun 15 13:46 |
oiaohm | The powersupply was coming from china before the mess. Don't know where it is coming from now. | Jun 15 13:46 |
_Mutex_ | ahh, so its not MS after all, and its still the fault of the houses power circuit, no question, say what you like you know its right, (or should, if you decide to think for a second). and clear away the MS veil of hate. | Jun 15 13:47 |
oiaohm | You are trying to say single point. | Jun 15 13:48 |
_Mutex_ | I i guess china putting poison into baby formula, killing LOTS of babies is OK because its not MS right :) | Jun 15 13:48 |
oiaohm | Remember I said MS was not alone with this happening. | Jun 15 13:48 |
_Mutex_ | not alone, not connected at all, | Jun 15 13:49 |
oiaohm | Its happened to cisco systems and others. | Jun 15 13:49 |
oiaohm | Difference is there quality control systems picked up the alteration to design. | Jun 15 13:49 |
oiaohm | Random sampling of imports. | Jun 15 13:49 |
_Mutex_ | MS designed a product, to standards, it was built by a third party in china, but after all that, its the house wiring and fuse/cct breaker at fault. simple as that againend of story. | Jun 15 13:50 |
stevendh | if ms is innocent about the burning house, shouldn't the case have been dismissed or been won by ms? (assuming it's not too early to tell) | Jun 15 13:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Corporation Joins Hand with the Pharmaceutical Cartel < http://ping.fm/YJeNX > | Jun 15 13:50 | |
oiaohm | Problem here is the over heat of powersupply it self was possiable to burn house down. | Jun 15 13:50 |
_Mutex_ | does not matter, even IF it was faulty, IT does not matter, things short all the time, but houses dont burn down every time, unless the power circuit fails, | Jun 15 13:50 |
_Mutex_ | No it wasnt, it does not work that way, | Jun 15 13:51 |
stevendh | ianal... | Jun 15 13:51 |
oiaohm | There were a lot of people doing a lot of things to cool there defective powersupply units. | Jun 15 13:51 |
oiaohm | The question for MS is why so lack on QC on importered items. | Jun 15 13:52 |
_Mutex_ | also regardless, if a product gets that hot , they will fail, and "fuse" themselves, again, when something fuses it does so fail safe, (you cant short a fuse, they fail open circuit), get a book on basic electricity, then come see me. | Jun 15 13:52 |
_Mutex_ | your way over your depth here its clear | Jun 15 13:52 |
oiaohm | It was overheating pulling normal power _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:52 |
stevendh | but _Mutex_, by your reasoning, i could sell a short circuit as being some ultimate entertaining device, and blame the users for their burned-down homes | Jun 15 13:52 |
MinceR | m$ does QC? :> | Jun 15 13:52 |
_Mutex_ | off the opt of your head what is the equasion for power ? | Jun 15 13:52 |
oiaohm | The powersupply did not have to short out to light something. | Jun 15 13:53 |
_Mutex_ | MS is not responsible for the QC for a product they do not manufacture, | Jun 15 13:53 |
oiaohm | Just by luck matterials for it to light them were not near it. | Jun 15 13:53 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: one of them is P=U*I :> | Jun 15 13:53 |
_Mutex_ | guess what, the company that manufactures it is. | Jun 15 13:53 |
_Mutex_ | close, no cigar. | Jun 15 13:53 |
_Mutex_ | U whats U ?? | Jun 15 13:53 |
oiaohm | As a importer you are resonsable for the products you import _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:53 |
stevendh | uranium! | Jun 15 13:54 |
_Mutex_ | P = Isquaredr | Jun 15 13:54 |
stevendh | oiaohm: i'd second that | Jun 15 13:54 |
_Mutex_ | or P=iv | Jun 15 13:54 |
oiaohm | The question before the judge was is MS libible and how much. | Jun 15 13:54 |
_Mutex_ | you can transpose to get the rest | Jun 15 13:54 |
oiaohm | MS might have only be responsable to replace the xbox. | Jun 15 13:54 |
oiaohm | And what it directly damaged. | Jun 15 13:54 |
oiaohm | That is why its both. | Jun 15 13:55 |
_Mutex_ | one dont get it, do you, its sad, your not doing yourself any favors | Jun 15 13:55 |
_Mutex_ | its not both, never was never will be, as much as you would like to blame your beloved MS | Jun 15 13:55 |
oiaohm | Something that gets to around 400 C out case still pulling normal power. | Jun 15 13:55 |
oiaohm | Would you call that right _Mutex_ | Jun 15 13:55 |
oiaohm | The termal cut off switch was missing. that should have stoped that. | Jun 15 13:56 |
_Mutex_ | that cant happen solder melts at much lower temperature, and the cct would fail, again by going open circuit, try again | Jun 15 13:56 |
oiaohm | What reason could you get that high and not melt solder. | Jun 15 13:57 |
oiaohm | That what is hot is what is cooling it. | Jun 15 13:58 |
oiaohm | Record is 600 C on a cermic heat sink on a video card by Abit and it does not melt the card. | Jun 15 13:59 |
_Mutex_ | you cant, you cant change the melting point of something, unless you have some amazing way to change phisics | Jun 15 13:59 |
_Mutex_ | sure, like a really believe you :) | Jun 15 13:59 |
oiaohm | Its a heat pump. | Jun 15 14:00 |
oiaohm | So the board itself is not upto that temp. | Jun 15 14:00 |
_Mutex_ | go away, read a book, find out about electricity, work out how a fuse works, (they are not hard) and come back when your able to engage in more than fud, | Jun 15 14:00 |
_Mutex_ | you mean a peliter effect device, | Jun 15 14:00 |
_Mutex_ | I know about them too, | Jun 15 14:00 |
_Mutex_ | usually their Max Tc and delta C is around 250deg C | Jun 15 14:01 |
stevendh | ... nobody's found anything in the press about the conclusion of this lawsuit? | Jun 15 14:03 |
_Mutex_ | it would have been thrown out, without a doubt. | Jun 15 14:03 |
stevendh | yes | Jun 15 14:04 |
stevendh | excuse me, i misread you | Jun 15 14:04 |
stevendh | isn't their an easy way to look this up? | Jun 15 14:05 |
stevendh | website of the court maybe? | Jun 15 14:05 |
_Mutex_ | please do | Jun 15 14:05 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: protip: there are multiple equations for power | Jun 15 14:07 |
oiaohm | I know how fuses work _Mutex_. If the powersupply had been built by design it had everything over spec well and truly over spec. Just remove a few parts here and there and some of those over spec design selections come back and bite. | Jun 15 14:07 |
_Mutex_ | the report says, (and accuractly) the WIRING get hot, not the xbox, if wiring gets hot, you have too many loads on it, and if you have too many loads on it, the circuit breaker should trip, but again you know that | Jun 15 14:07 |
_Mutex_ | Well if you do know, why are you saying things you know to be incorrect ? | Jun 15 14:07 |
_Mutex_ | clearly you actually dont know how a fuse works ,,, sorry, I know you said you did, but | Jun 15 14:08 |
_Mutex_ | so what type of fuse do you think it was a HRC or SB ? | Jun 15 14:09 |
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.14.136.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 14:10 | |
_Mutex_ | and why didnt the ground loop current circuit trip if there was a fault in the equipment, after all thats what its designed to do, and I believe they are compulsory in houses in the US | Jun 15 14:10 |
oiaohm | High Rupting Capacity and slow blow. | Jun 15 14:10 |
_Mutex_ | yay, horay google | Jun 15 14:11 |
_Mutex_ | ok you know what a thermister is ? | Jun 15 14:12 |
_Mutex_ | you have to have them in like everything, expecially wall warts (plug pacs) | Jun 15 14:12 |
ThistleWeb | wall warts? that conjures an image | Jun 15 14:13 |
_Mutex_ | LOL | Jun 15 14:13 |
oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_cutoff << You should mean these _Mutex_ | Jun 15 14:14 |
fewa | Ive got one of those sheevaplugs | Jun 15 14:14 |
oiaohm | There is a bit of a difference between a themister and a thermal cutoff | Jun 15 14:14 |
_Mutex_ | yes those things, they shut off the power when it get too hot, | Jun 15 14:14 |
_Mutex_ | basically a heat fuse | Jun 15 14:15 |
oiaohm | thermister only changes reistance never cuts power. | Jun 15 14:15 |
oiaohm | You hope people don't mix them up in designs. | Jun 15 14:15 |
_Mutex_ | yes your right, thermisters are also used for that increasing their resistance with temp, reducing current, but your right there is another device thats used everywhere that goes OC at a set temp, like a silicon bi-metallic strip | Jun 15 14:17 |
oiaohm | Reseting ones are bi-matallic. | Jun 15 14:19 |
_Mutex_ | yes | Jun 15 14:19 |
oiaohm | Non reseting can be pure melt. | Jun 15 14:19 |
_Mutex_ | often they can be configured to trip as well, or blow the fuse !! go figure | Jun 15 14:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sued for Contract Violation in Asia < http://ping.fm/zE1W0 > | Jun 15 14:20 | |
oiaohm | should stop at internal device fuse. | Jun 15 14:21 |
oiaohm | But there are poor designs that don't. | Jun 15 14:21 |
oiaohm | Worst I have found is meltwire non coated straight over power in on the device. Someone was nuts that day. | Jun 15 14:22 |
oiaohm | Ie it melts risks short. | Jun 15 14:22 |
_Mutex_ | BN that was 5 years ago !!! way to be up to date !! | Jun 15 14:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @bloggerheads The Royal British Legion tell Nick Griffin he's a fucking disgrace http://is.gd/12stf | Jun 15 14:25 | |
ThistleWeb | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8100394.stm | Jun 15 14:27 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] may i say that the DWP website stretches new goatses of crapitude. Dig this: http://is.gd/12uIK the best ad for PFI ever. KILL CRUSH DESTROY | Jun 15 14:30 | |
splosion | ooh, it's red now | Jun 15 14:37 |
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_Mutex_ | imagine getter SO worked up over someone wearing a poppy, slow news week ?? i wonder :) | Jun 15 14:43 |
stevendh | well, i haven't quite found an answer, but thanks for the discussion | Jun 15 14:45 |
stevendh | bye folks | Jun 15 14:45 |
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taq | hey, did you guys see that? http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/1251228/Mono-Squeezed-Into-Debian-Default-Installation | Jun 15 14:47 |
splosion | http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/1251228/Mono-Squeezed-Into-Debian-Default-Installation?art_pos=1 | Jun 15 14:47 |
splosion | wtf | Jun 15 14:47 |
splosion | haha, I didn't see your link taq | Jun 15 14:47 |
taq | splosion: I won for a couple of miliseconds :-) | Jun 15 14:47 |
taq | now that gnote is a good alternative, a need for tomboy as dependency is stupid | Jun 15 14:48 |
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schestowitz | taq: indeed. | Jun 15 14:49 |
schestowitz | It's not over yet | Jun 15 14:49 |
splosion | old habits die hard, though | Jun 15 14:49 |
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taq | and even taking out the "dangers" bla bla bla: why the hell some @#$@#$ app need to be a dependency with a lot of other dependencies when there is a good alternative? I don't understand | Jun 15 14:50 |
_Mutex_ | yes, you can always unscramble the egg,, but its hard. | Jun 15 14:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Is Microsoft Trying to Inject Money into SCO Again? < http://ping.fm/VTEHD > | Jun 15 14:50 | |
taq | well, I understand: there's a lot of people out there working for some more things than just code, right. fuck. | Jun 15 14:50 |
splosion | Browsing ./ at -1 is such a pain | Jun 15 14:51 |
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splosion | /., even | Jun 15 14:51 |
_Mutex_ | well you got the source code, why not do what Linus did with minux/unix and re-write each function block by block, it was good enough for the kernel, who not everything else? its not like its an uncommon practice for FOSS. | Jun 15 14:51 |
_Mutex_ | Its how it get here after all. | Jun 15 14:51 |
MinceR | what's "minux"? | Jun 15 14:52 |
splosion | Minix. Linus used Minix's filesystem | Jun 15 14:52 |
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_Mutex_ | the textbook micro-kernel OS that RMS and Linux used as a basis for their GNU and Linus's Linux, read Linus's famous letter | Jun 15 14:53 |
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splosion | yeah. Supposedly an example of an early flame war. I read the whole thread and didn't see the word "fag" anywhere. Fail. | Jun 15 14:53 |
_Mutex_ | Ive got a doco, with RMS standing saying "we got each block of minux and repaced each part of the code block by block" as linus said in his letter. | Jun 15 14:54 |
MinceR | hm, looks like debian is handing m$ the gun. | Jun 15 14:55 |
_Mutex_ | so if it can be done for the Linux kernel, (and GCC) it would be trivial to do it with mono easier in fact. | Jun 15 14:55 |
_Mutex_ | problem solved | Jun 15 14:55 |
splosion | I've heard talk of people making C# play nice with gcc and doing away with Mono altogether. Does anyone know more about this? | Jun 15 14:55 |
Hmm, I don't see any new articles about the Kline fire. http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=kline+xbox+fire&scoring=a&hl=en&ned=us&sa=N&start=0 | Jun 15 14:55 | |
MinceR | and how does rewriting a kernel block by block result in a completely different design? | Jun 15 14:55 |
M$ must have crushed them. | Jun 15 14:56 | |
_Mutex_ | It absolutely DOES NOT RESULT in a different design, therefore Linux is a UNIX-like OS. | Jun 15 14:56 |
_Mutex_ | im sure you've read up on how linux started ?? | Jun 15 14:56 |
oiaohm | gcc cil project | Jun 15 14:56 |
splosion | schestowitz: "Groklaw has the derails:" a typo or an ironic statement? | Jun 15 14:56 |
They have buried a lot of court records, proving that the US is as corrupt as any banana republic. | Jun 15 14:57 | |
oiaohm | Its still under way to make .net work with gcc. | Jun 15 14:57 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: so the terms "microkernel" and "monolithic kernel" mean nothing to you? | Jun 15 14:57 |
splosion | oiaohm: thanks. I'll go look it up | Jun 15 14:57 |
oiaohm | http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cli.html << splosion | Jun 15 14:57 |
splosion | merci | Jun 15 14:58 |
_Mutex_ | im sorry, I was just going by what Linus torvalds and Richard stallman said, and wrote, take it up with them, and yes, I am aware of micro-kernel and macro-kernel and also the fight or argument between Linus and the creator of Minux regarding the merits of both,,, do you ? | Jun 15 14:58 |
oiaohm | c closeness to asm makes OS design simpler _Mutex_. C# OS's do exist _Mutex_ | Jun 15 14:58 |
MinceR | i'm aware of the argument | Jun 15 14:58 |
_Mutex_ | good im glad, so why did you ask ? | Jun 15 14:59 |
taq | _Mutex_: simple answer, I don't need what those packages provides. we have a lot of options without any kind of fuzzy questions and I'm really confortable with those. | Jun 15 14:59 |
MinceR | i thought RMS said they rewrote the userspace of unix in parts | Jun 15 14:59 |
_Mutex_ | In the Linux Kernel "fuzzy " ?? | Jun 15 14:59 |
taq | _Mutex_: no, not the kernel | Jun 15 14:59 |
_Mutex_ | the doco i have said they wrote "each section" block by block, | Jun 15 15:00 |
MinceR | and that linus took part in tanenbaum's course and then wrote linux | Jun 15 15:00 |
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_Mutex_ | so there were times when Minux and Linux code operated together as one OS, but upon release of Linux it contained no minux/unix code. | Jun 15 15:00 |
taq | oh sorry I tought you guys were talking about the last line I wrote | Jun 15 15:00 |
oiaohm | Linux and minix have two majorally differnet designs _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:00 |
_Mutex_ | yes, I do know the history too. | Jun 15 15:00 |
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taq | not about the Linux history :-) | Jun 15 15:00 |
_Mutex_ | sorry, you'll have to take that up with Linux, he said it, not me, and I defer to him on this, (sorrry). | Jun 15 15:01 |
oiaohm | Linus like monolithic design more. tanenbaum prefers microkernel. | Jun 15 15:01 |
_Mutex_ | I know | Jun 15 15:01 |
MinceR | i still don't see how you get a monolithic kernel by rewriting a microkernel one block a time. | Jun 15 15:02 |
oiaohm | Lot of code was not cross portable. | Jun 15 15:02 |
_Mutex_ | Linus* not linux | Jun 15 15:02 |
_Mutex_ | I know, | Jun 15 15:02 |
_Mutex_ | geez, | Jun 15 15:02 |
_Mutex_ | that was 17 years ago, I too gues somethings have changed between the 2 dont you ?? | Jun 15 15:02 |
oiaohm | Interface information linus extracted from minix. | Jun 15 15:02 |
_Mutex_ | you arguing samantics, i dont see your point ? | Jun 15 15:03 |
MinceR | the gcc-cli project looks more like c/c++ -> cil bytecode | Jun 15 15:03 |
_Mutex_ | sorry, I was just saying what is, You know, the facts as they are. we can all read and learn history | Jun 15 15:03 |
oiaohm | One you don't truly ever take code _Mutex_. | Jun 15 15:03 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: lol | Jun 15 15:04 |
oiaohm | gcc-cil is both ways MinceR | Jun 15 15:04 |
MinceR | cil bytecode -> assembly source? | Jun 15 15:04 |
oiaohm | Yep | Jun 15 15:04 |
oiaohm | as well | Jun 15 15:04 |
MinceR | that's nice | Jun 15 15:04 |
MinceR | gets around some of the patents, i guess | Jun 15 15:04 |
oiaohm | Other than the fact it don't work well yet. | Jun 15 15:04 |
MinceR | it would be nice to see all novell's work to infect the gnu/linux desktop end up being for nothing. | Jun 15 15:05 |
oiaohm | vala from gnome project is the better threat. | Jun 15 15:06 |
oiaohm | It should be ready by end of year to start porting applications way from C# to vala. | Jun 15 15:06 |
MinceR | sure, but that needs porting | Jun 15 15:08 |
oiaohm | Syntax between C# and vala is very close. | Jun 15 15:08 |
MinceR | compiling cil bytecode to assembly/machine code would mean all the code that relies on it can automatically be reused | Jun 15 15:08 |
MinceR | the other part would be fixing the class library (i've heard Windows.Forms is a problem) | Jun 15 15:09 |
oiaohm | It would also be like doing that to java. | Jun 15 15:09 |
oiaohm | Java is not the most effective even having that done. | Jun 15 15:09 |
_Mutex_ | java is a problem, it has "issues". | Jun 15 15:09 |
oiaohm | Really .net only fits in the OS it was designed for. | Jun 15 15:09 |
_Mutex_ | ?? what ?? how does that work ? | Jun 15 15:10 |
oiaohm | java and .net have the same problem. Quite heavy wrappers to get to native. | Jun 15 15:10 |
oiaohm | Under linux. | Jun 15 15:10 |
_Mutex_ | .net is a programming framework, should be OS agnostic | Jun 15 15:10 |
oiaohm | Windows has the advantage of being able to do native calls straight up. | Jun 15 15:11 |
_Mutex_ | Java have a lead appronx as a wrapper | Jun 15 15:11 |
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oiaohm | mono has not provided that advantage for .net | Jun 15 15:11 |
_Mutex_ | thick, heavy and inpenatrable | Jun 15 15:11 |
tacone | any resource about the winforms patents ? | Jun 15 15:11 |
_Mutex_ | oiaohm, have you used mono yet at all ? or looked at it much, or read the license you get with it ? | Jun 15 15:12 |
MinceR | once we can run all the mono crap without infringing on any patents, we don't need to care about how heavy the wrappers are | Jun 15 15:12 |
MinceR | at that point suing becomes pointless. | Jun 15 15:12 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: I have used mono. I know its problems. | Jun 15 15:12 |
MinceR | and novell will have wasted a lot of money on setting up a trap they can't use. | Jun 15 15:12 |
_Mutex_ | yes MinceR thats right, so do a linus on it , and re-code it, you can even do it clean room style so you can help to ensure its safe. (patent wise) if you dont trust the GPL that is, (if you do trust the GPL, there is not problem). | Jun 15 15:13 |
oiaohm | .net is sold as a magical solve all language. | Jun 15 15:13 |
oiaohm | Problem is that a huge mother of a lie. | Jun 15 15:13 |
MinceR | we know that but the cult of mono doesn't | Jun 15 15:14 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: Linux kernel has mountains of patented parts in it. | Jun 15 15:14 |
oiaohm | Difference is with Linux I can find out what is patented. | Jun 15 15:14 |
_Mutex_ | Ive used it too, and java, and C C++, fortran, G (labview), forth, assembly, VS and so on, and mono is far from "that bad", its actually quite polished and usable | Jun 15 15:15 |
oiaohm | And what the patent restrictions are on those parts _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:15 |
taq | _Mutex_: but if does not MinceR need mono, why does he needs to re-code it to make sure it's safe, if there is a lot of other options of programming languages and frameworks out there? | Jun 15 15:15 |
_Mutex_ | oiaohm, if that is the case, whats the big deal with mono then ? | Jun 15 15:15 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: yes, we know, it's the best thing since sliced bread, and it's also the cure to cancer and world hunger. | Jun 15 15:15 |
oiaohm | No information on what is and what is not patented with the restrictions _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:15 |
oiaohm | That is the problem with Mono. | Jun 15 15:15 |
MinceR | taq: i don't need it, but gnome currently depends on it, for example. | Jun 15 15:15 |
oiaohm | Really gnome core operates perfectly without .net | Jun 15 15:16 |
MinceR | taq: the community could slap novell in the face with such an evasion. | Jun 15 15:16 |
taq | MinceR: that's the danger. | Jun 15 15:16 |
_Mutex_ | its certainly not the best thing since sliced bread, its simply another tool to use, and not a bad one, not perfect, but what is ? certainly not java | Jun 15 15:16 |
_Mutex_ | or gcc | Jun 15 15:16 |
MinceR | also, gnome do depends on it and nobody has bothered to make a full-featured replacement to that. | Jun 15 15:16 |
oiaohm | mono has worse memmory usage than gcc. | Jun 15 15:16 |
_Mutex_ | volenteer to do it MinceR, | Jun 15 15:16 |
MinceR | oiaohm: but is it as bad as java? | Jun 15 15:17 |
splosion | I use Launchy, actually. It's quite good | Jun 15 15:17 |
_Mutex_ | not by a long shot, | Jun 15 15:17 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: it's not my field, i'm not sure if i can get started soon. | Jun 15 15:17 |
oiaohm | java uses less than mono MinceR | Jun 15 15:17 |
splosion | Launchy performs better than Gnome-Do on crappier machines anyway (ie machines I use) | Jun 15 15:17 |
_Mutex_ | java has issues, scary issues, | Jun 15 15:17 |
MinceR | oiaohm: whoa. | Jun 15 15:17 |
MinceR | i rarely hear about stuff that manages to use more memory than java. | Jun 15 15:17 |
taq | but did you notice such kind of silly software create this dependency? not a "I can't live without them". I don't use mono so I don't use gnome do, tomboy, banshee, or something like that and I'm perfectly happy. | Jun 15 15:17 |
oiaohm | Mono is basically crap. | Jun 15 15:17 |
MinceR | splosion: i'm not talking about performance, i'm talking about functionality | Jun 15 15:18 |
oiaohm | Now if it worked perfect effectively might have a reason to disreguard the patent problems _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:18 |
taq | if some really "killer app" create the dependency, that will be a problem, but such kind of software are just ... funny. | Jun 15 15:18 |
MinceR | splosion: such as the way it does substring search and the files/folders plugin. | Jun 15 15:18 |
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MinceR | also, it isn't as slow as deskbar (which is unusable) | Jun 15 15:19 |
_Mutex_ | and if you had a micro-kernel system you would not have the large dependency problems you have... (if you do, | Jun 15 15:19 |
MinceR | iirc it isn't even as slow as krunner. | Jun 15 15:19 |
_Mutex_ | what patent problems are there with the GPLv2 ? that you refer too ? | Jun 15 15:19 |
_Hicham_ | Hi All! | Jun 15 15:20 |
oiaohm | Its more the lack of transpancy _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:20 |
oiaohm | GPLv2 would not be a issue with transpanecy on the effected patents _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:20 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: i'm no lawyer, but IIRC one of the things GPLv3 added was better protection against patent-based locking of software -- including the "covenant not to sue" trick. | Jun 15 15:20 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: but if you are referring to the case of mono, GPLv2 is not the whole story. | Jun 15 15:21 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: parts of mono are licensed under MIT license, which has no patent provisions | Jun 15 15:21 |
oiaohm | This is why comparing mono gplv2 status to likes of Linux kernel is invalid. Linux kernel and a lot of the other projects that use GPLv2 have patent transpancy. | Jun 15 15:21 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: and the novell/m$ deal included a covenant not to sue suse customers for .net/mono patents. | Jun 15 15:21 |
MinceR | i'm not sure about the patent deal -- who holds copyright for mono could very well matter | Jun 15 15:22 |
MinceR | it might well be that distributing it is simply a license violation (due to missing patent license) but only m$/novell could sue for it so they can choose whom to sue. | Jun 15 15:22 |
oiaohm | I know the upcoming ksm that will go into Linux kernel has a vmware patent on it. That vmware has approved for gpl useage. | Jun 15 15:22 |
MinceR | again, i'm not a lawyer. | Jun 15 15:22 |
taq | "oh please I really need a dock app like the Apple one so please allow a dependency like mono on the distro" what the hell ... | Jun 15 15:22 |
oiaohm | Its more with mono lets stick our heads in sand and hope patent problem goes away. | Jun 15 15:23 |
MinceR | taq: docky is really just a side effect in gnome do, i consider the katapult-like functionality the gist -- that's the original functionality of gnome do. | Jun 15 15:23 |
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_Mutex_ | You do know you can write applications or code using any framework, language and so on, and the code you create will not be encumbered by any of the patents within the development framework, this means you can write proprietary code using FOSS GCC, without being bound by the GPL or any other license, | Jun 15 15:23 |
MinceR | (it does a lot more than katapult, though) | Jun 15 15:23 |
taq | MinceR: but it's not a feature we can't really live without it, right? | Jun 15 15:23 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: well, the code won't be, but it will depend on something that does | Jun 15 15:24 |
oiaohm | _Mutex_: Linux kernel is truly heavily patent encumbered. | Jun 15 15:24 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: and code you write isn't of much use if nobody can legally get the environment it depends on. | Jun 15 15:24 |
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oiaohm | If you tried to change licence you would have to redo a lot of agreements _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:24 |
MinceR | taq: i could live without it. | Jun 15 15:24 |
_Mutex_ | well re-write those dependicies, so they dont, | Jun 15 15:24 |
_Mutex_ | your allowed to do that you know | Jun 15 15:24 |
MinceR | taq: but i'd be more relaxed if i knew that m$ couldn't make its use illegal with a declaration. | Jun 15 15:24 |
taq | MinceR: sure | Jun 15 15:25 |
_Mutex_ | not if you write the code, | Jun 15 15:25 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: that's what we were talking about -- avoiding the mono JIT compiler and stuff like that. | Jun 15 15:25 |
_Mutex_ | I can write code on anything, and license any way I want too. | Jun 15 15:25 |
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MinceR | _Mutex_: you'd still have to look out for patents. | Jun 15 15:25 |
oiaohm | No you cannot _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:25 |
oiaohm | Like RCU from the Linux kernel even the author can only release that under GPL | Jun 15 15:25 |
_Mutex_ | sure, IF my code breaks a patent, but I dont have to look out for patents within the development framework | Jun 15 15:25 |
oiaohm | You do _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:26 |
_Mutex_ | Im NOT bound by MONO patents (if they exist) if i develop code, | Jun 15 15:26 |
_Mutex_ | No I dont,, if I do,, prove it. | Jun 15 15:26 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: once again, if the development framework infringes on patents you don't control, then your users might not be able to legally run your program | Jun 15 15:26 |
oiaohm | The program you make could be using patented parts that you used. | Jun 15 15:26 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: because they might not have a way to legally use the development framework. | Jun 15 15:26 |
_Mutex_ | no they dont, gosh, | Jun 15 15:26 |
_Mutex_ | if you are a developer you will know that is not right oiaohm | Jun 15 15:27 |
oiaohm | That something is a standard does not mean it is free of patents. | Jun 15 15:27 |
oiaohm | Sections of the base language could be patented. | Jun 15 15:27 |
oiaohm | Everything would be so much simpler if everything was just out in the open _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:28 |
_Mutex_ | who mentioned standards ?" and your right, but writing my own code, is not affected by that standard, unless I write to it, or write code that breaches some patent, | Jun 15 15:28 |
_Mutex_ | its the same with ANYTHING, | Jun 15 15:28 |
_Mutex_ | but you know that im sure. | Jun 15 15:28 |
oiaohm | C# is a standard. | Jun 15 15:28 |
oiaohm | cil is also a standard. | Jun 15 15:28 |
_Mutex_ | ok, whatever. | Jun 15 15:28 |
oiaohm | We just want to know what areas are and are not effected by patents. | Jun 15 15:29 |
oiaohm | With what conditions. | Jun 15 15:29 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: how can others run your code? | Jun 15 15:29 |
_Mutex_ | c is not a standard then ? or RS-232, I dont see your point (and not sure if you do either). | Jun 15 15:29 |
oiaohm | Not what you call the most complex question. | Jun 15 15:29 |
oiaohm | C is a standard. | Jun 15 15:29 |
_Mutex_ | dont ask me how people run code, if y ou dont know how to run code, what are you doing here ? | Jun 15 15:30 |
oiaohm | With all patent holders agreeing not to apply patents. | Jun 15 15:30 |
oiaohm | to anyone using the standard. | Jun 15 15:30 |
_Mutex_ | thankyou, :) | Jun 15 15:30 |
oiaohm | Status known. | Jun 15 15:30 |
oiaohm | .net there are a lot of unknown status bits. | Jun 15 15:30 |
_Mutex_ | there is little you do anytime that is not covered by standards, ever watch TV ??? | Jun 15 15:30 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: how can others run your code that relies on a framework if they can't use the framework? | Jun 15 15:31 |
_Mutex_ | you think its not a standard, and it does not mabey have patents in it ? | Jun 15 15:31 |
MinceR | m$ has turned "standard" into another four-letter word | Jun 15 15:31 |
_Mutex_ | have you heard the word COMPILER, | Jun 15 15:31 |
MinceR | after "innovation" | Jun 15 15:31 |
oiaohm | TV recivers patents still apply for digiatal. | Jun 15 15:31 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: and how does mono use the compiler? | Jun 15 15:31 |
oiaohm | anlog is too old to have patents on it _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:32 |
_Mutex_ | .net, c# and so on are NOT interpreted code, you know that, do you know what an executable binary or compiled code is. | Jun 15 15:32 |
splosion | If microsoft offered a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable right to use the patents it offered Novell and its customers, everything would be okay with the world. In fact if they had done that in the first place, BN probably wouldn't exist. There would be no need for it. | Jun 15 15:32 |
_Mutex_ | does a assembled bit of code need a framework to run on ???? (A. NO ofcourse it does not) | Jun 15 15:32 |
oiaohm | .net travels in cil form. | Jun 15 15:32 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: so what is the bytecode if not "interpreted code"? | Jun 15 15:32 |
oiaohm | Without jit at other end code don't run _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:32 |
oiaohm | Or aot other end. | Jun 15 15:33 |
_Mutex_ | sorry, im not going to sit here and explain to you the difference between interpreted language and compiled language, its quit simple, google it. | Jun 15 15:33 |
oiaohm | If the bytecode transfer has patents on it hello trouble. | Jun 15 15:33 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: if you know it then you'd know why what you said made no sense. | Jun 15 15:33 |
oiaohm | bytecodes can be patented. | Jun 15 15:33 |
oiaohm | ,net only uses aot at client so it can optimise to cpu. | Jun 15 15:34 |
_Mutex_ | byte code, do you mean the raw assembly hex or binary code, that is machine executable, or a HLL that unes an interpreter (like basic), that runs the code ? do you understand the difference ? | Jun 15 15:34 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: no, we rarely call native code "byte code" | Jun 15 15:35 |
oiaohm | If it cpu processed it gets called machine code. | Jun 15 15:35 |
_Mutex_ | no one calls anything byte code, | Jun 15 15:35 |
MinceR | lol | Jun 15 15:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Não me apetece fazer mesmo nada hoje, já apresentei a PAT e já chega de emoções para hoje | Jun 15 15:35 | |
oiaohm | byte code exists inside python. | Jun 15 15:35 |
oiaohm | java ... | Jun 15 15:35 |
oiaohm | Lot of different langauges. | Jun 15 15:36 |
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oiaohm | Its one of the early means to accelerate processing non processor native language. | Jun 15 15:36 |
_Mutex_ | machine code or binary code, or hex code or machine executable code, BASIC or any interpreted language is not machine executable it requires in INTERPRETER, therefore thats why its called an interpreted code !! (go figure) | Jun 15 15:36 |
oiaohm | Even gcc has a internal bytecode called gimple. | Jun 15 15:36 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: learn how java, python and .net/mono work. | Jun 15 15:37 |
oiaohm | bytecodes like java's can be processed by special processor chips. | Jun 15 15:37 |
oiaohm | You could even design a processor chip to process cil. | Jun 15 15:37 |
splosion | I've heard chatter of F-Spot being ported to C++. Does anyone know if anyone is actively attempting this? | Jun 15 15:38 |
MinceR | oiaohm: oh, i missed the cil _front-end_ on that page. now i know. :) | Jun 15 15:38 |
_Mutex_ | and come and see me when you understand what "byte-code" actually means :) | Jun 15 15:38 |
oiaohm | Really you don't _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:38 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: hello, i already understand what it means. the problem is that you don't. | Jun 15 15:38 |
_Mutex_ | every software has byte-code in it. | Jun 15 15:38 |
_Mutex_ | if you know what byte-code means. | Jun 15 15:38 |
MinceR | every software. yeah, right. | Jun 15 15:38 |
_Mutex_ | ok what does it mean, ?? enlighten me | Jun 15 15:39 |
tacone | i'd call bytecode the maximum possible optimization and preprocessing of the code that still mantains compatibility across differents run-time deployments | Jun 15 15:39 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bytecode | Jun 15 15:39 |
_Mutex_ | it would not be the CPU's instruction set by any chance ?? | Jun 15 15:39 |
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_Mutex_ | thankyou, now read it | Jun 15 15:39 |
MinceR | normally it wouldn't. | Jun 15 15:39 |
oiaohm | A bytecode can be CPU instructions. | Jun 15 15:39 |
oiaohm | But you normal name them machine code | Jun 15 15:39 |
oiaohm | to avoid confusion with other usages. | Jun 15 15:39 |
_Mutex_ | probably better to read it before y ou post the link especially as it supports exactly what im saying | Jun 15 15:39 |
_Mutex_ | machine code is a set of instructions that for a program, | Jun 15 15:40 |
_Mutex_ | byte code ARE THE INSTRUCTIONS. | Jun 15 15:40 |
tacone | bytecode is usually exact the same in any deployment: windows, mac, embedded etc | Jun 15 15:40 |
oiaohm | Anything bytecode you can design a CPY to process. | Jun 15 15:40 |
oiaohm | cpu to process. | Jun 15 15:40 |
_Mutex_ | like LDA (load accumulator) is byte code | Jun 15 15:40 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: then think about how .net/mono bytecode is typically executed. | Jun 15 15:41 |
_Mutex_ | tacone yes if its the SAME CPU instruction set yes, | Jun 15 15:41 |
_Mutex_ | different cpu's have different instruction sets, (go figure) | Jun 15 15:41 |
MinceR | hint: x86 cpus typically don't support it in hw. | Jun 15 15:41 |
oiaohm | cil has to go threw either a aot or a jit before native hardware can run it. | Jun 15 15:41 |
tacone | _Mutex_: are you meaning java produces a different bytecode to be used on x86 and Arm ? | Jun 15 15:41 |
_Mutex_ | OFOUCRSE they are, they are machine code instructions, its what programs are made of, they are the itty bitty instruction set code, that ALL software ends up as so it actually works on a computer. | Jun 15 15:42 |
_Mutex_ | its not hard, | Jun 15 15:42 |
_Mutex_ | its not computer science (oh wait) | Jun 15 15:42 |
oiaohm | cil is a middle state _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:42 |
tacone | i see bytecode as the thinnest layer possible which preserve cross-platform workings. | Jun 15 15:42 |
oiaohm | That .net uses. | Jun 15 15:42 |
oiaohm | Its not machine code but its still a bytecode. | Jun 15 15:42 |
oiaohm | No different than to generate some forms of videos using there encoders you need patents. | Jun 15 15:43 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: ok, give an example of a cpu that runs cil bytecode directly. we'll wait. | Jun 15 15:43 |
_Mutex_ | its not even the lowest level, CPU have internal micro-code as well, thats the very lowest level, its just the instruction set of the CPU, no more no less, all software that runs on that CPU has to be writting using instructions that the CPU can execute, (oddly enough), otherwise IT DONT WORK (addly enought again) | Jun 15 15:43 |
oiaohm | Not all cpus have a interal micro-code | Jun 15 15:44 |
MinceR | yes, please bring up more facts that have no relevance to the discussion | Jun 15 15:44 |
_Mutex_ | MinceR EVERY SOFTWARE COMPRISES OF INSTRUCTIONS FROM THE INSTRUCTION SET OF THE CPU, no more, no less. no different | Jun 15 15:44 |
oiaohm | Wrong _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:45 |
MinceR | wrong again | Jun 15 15:45 |
oiaohm | You can be using programable chips to make cpu's _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:45 |
_Mutex_ | whatever, go read a book and get a clue, better still read the link you posted !!! | Jun 15 15:45 |
MinceR | lol | Jun 15 15:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ‘Our Governments Just Aren’t Engineered for Security' < http://ping.fm/u3pvi > | Jun 15 15:45 | |
oiaohm | You can download programming for programmable chips to have something run java native. | Jun 15 15:46 |
oiaohm | It is a bytecode spend enough time you can design a processor to run it. | Jun 15 15:46 |
_Mutex_ | "Bytecode is a term which has been used to denote various forms of instruction sets " from yoru own link , first line, its not hard, if you can read its quite simple. | Jun 15 15:47 |
oiaohm | So even if a cpu does not exist now. | Jun 15 15:47 |
oiaohm | a person could always make one. | Jun 15 15:47 |
oiaohm | This is why you argument that a CPU has to run it is so wrong. | Jun 15 15:47 |
Balrog | just HOW did Mono get into Debian?!?!? | Jun 15 15:47 |
_Mutex_ | what are you talking about, you making your own propisitions and basing an argument on it, you have a different CPU you have a different instruction set, gee its really not that hard. | Jun 15 15:48 |
oiaohm | You design instruction set before you design cpu _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:48 |
oiaohm | Going the other way just makes your life hard. | Jun 15 15:48 |
MinceR | Balrog: that's what i want to know too. | Jun 15 15:49 |
Balrog | maybe read up on LLVM ...? | Jun 15 15:49 |
Balrog | schestowitz: you're around? | Jun 15 15:49 |
_Mutex_ | that often happens, yes, does not change the FACT that an instruction set , is an instruction set, the low level commands the INSTRUCT the cpu what to do !!. | Jun 15 15:49 |
_Mutex_ | as i said, its not that hard | Jun 15 15:49 |
oiaohm | llvm uses a instruction set that matches no cpu. | Jun 15 15:49 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: not all programs are distributed in that native code. | Jun 15 15:49 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: simple example: shell script. | Jun 15 15:49 |
splosion | Jo Shields has been trolling the debian mailing lists for a while about getting mono shoved into debian. | Jun 15 15:49 |
oiaohm | Idea that instruction set and cpu has to be inlinked is where you are screwing up _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:50 |
tacone | Mono is in gnome | Jun 15 15:50 |
tacone | the rest is pretty easy | Jun 15 15:50 |
_Mutex_ | well DER, thats why you have different compilers for diffent CPU's, geezzz,, | Jun 15 15:50 |
MinceR | i thought the debian guys took free software seriously. | Jun 15 15:50 |
oiaohm | They don't have to be _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:50 |
oiaohm | instruction set can be processed by a interperter. | Jun 15 15:50 |
Balrog | MinceR: what about gnote? The blog was down yesterday | Jun 15 15:50 |
_Mutex_ | no some compilers can compile to different cpus some cant | Jun 15 15:50 |
MinceR | Balrog: dunno | Jun 15 15:50 |
oiaohm | qemu is a internperter for x86 _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:50 |
Balrog | back up | Jun 15 15:51 |
oiaohm | So you can use x86 bytecode on a powerpc that is bytecode incompadbile. | Jun 15 15:51 |
_Mutex_ | congratulations qemu | Jun 15 15:51 |
oiaohm | Bytecodes are not cpu linked as such. | Jun 15 15:51 |
oiaohm | If cpus exist optimised to run them so be it. | Jun 15 15:51 |
_Mutex_ | wow i never knew what in interpreter was before !!! | Jun 15 15:51 |
_Mutex_ | (sarcasm) | Jun 15 15:51 |
MinceR | actually sarcasm is unnecessary | Jun 15 15:52 |
MinceR | apparently. | Jun 15 15:52 |
_Mutex_ | sorry, I dont know how you can say that "Bytecode is a term which has been used to denote various forms of instruction sets " | Jun 15 15:52 |
oiaohm | And thing cpu is a circuit made interperter | Jun 15 15:52 |
oiaohm | I wonder how come you don't get this. | Jun 15 15:52 |
oiaohm | That cpu and bytecode are not really linked. | Jun 15 15:53 |
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_Mutex_ | sorry, mabey i dont get it because your wrong, but too stubborn to read and find out yourself, I dont know why you have trouble reading the link YOU provided. | Jun 15 15:53 |
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oiaohm | instruction sets are not cpu linked _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:53 |
_Mutex_ | ok oiaohm, sure they are not | Jun 15 15:54 |
splosion | nice to see the mono trolls getting modded down on /. | Jun 15 15:54 |
oiaohm | a cpu is designed to support 1. | Jun 15 15:54 |
_Mutex_ | really,, | Jun 15 15:54 |
_Mutex_ | know many CPU with one instruction ? | Jun 15 15:54 |
oiaohm | But may bytecode exist that don't have cpu's to process. | Jun 15 15:54 |
_Mutex_ | x86 has hundreds | Jun 15 15:54 |
oiaohm | bytecodes | Jun 15 15:55 |
MinceR | _Mutex_: maybe you don't get it because you're ignorant. | Jun 15 15:55 |
oiaohm | Instead depend on interperters and translators. | Jun 15 15:55 |
_Mutex_ | instructions in its instruction set, so yes byte-codes, by definition (which you provided). | Jun 15 15:55 |
_Mutex_ | ahh, ok | Jun 15 15:55 |
oiaohm | Now if the translator or interperter is not patent free it makes using the bytecode a really bugger. | Jun 15 15:56 |
oiaohm | bytecode is a lot broader term that what you were using _Mutex_ | Jun 15 15:57 |
oiaohm | I guess SA somewhere. One of the professors down there stuffs up teaching bytecodes all the time. | Jun 15 15:57 |
_Mutex_ | again, thats just straight out wrong, but anyway its ok,, I dont want to break your dilusion, you right to have your opinion, wrong as it is, its your and you stand by it. just dont say it to anyone you want to impress or how might actually know better. and dont try to prove it by providing links which confirm what ive been saying all along. | Jun 15 15:57 |
nicktastic | schestowitz: The last Linux Link Tech Show mentioned Boycott Novel - tllts.org | Jun 15 15:58 |
schestowitz | Anything positive? | Jun 15 15:58 |
schestowitz | Balrog: yes, I'm here | Jun 15 15:58 |
oiaohm | http://www.ifi.uzh.ch/~pilz/thesis/Thesis.html << That is about java bytecodes _Mutex_ particularly designed to be cpu netural. | Jun 15 16:00 |
oiaohm | I could pull up equal docs on .net if you hare happier with .net docs _Mutex_ | Jun 15 16:00 |
MinceR | he wouldn't read them past the first five words anyway. | Jun 15 16:00 |
Balrog | schestowitz: not positive; Debian added tomboy + mono to Squeeze | Jun 15 16:01 |
Balrog | it's on slashdot | Jun 15 16:01 |
MinceR | after all, he didn't get past the 23rd word of the wikipedia article either (not counting titles and citation warning) | Jun 15 16:01 |
oiaohm | I could have grab the bigger one. | Jun 15 16:02 |
_Mutex_ | is not java a virtual machine ? | Jun 15 16:02 |
oiaohm | So is .net _Mutex_ | Jun 15 16:02 |
_Mutex_ | instruction sets are for CPU, or even virtual CPU's, thats the power Java, and its cross platform advantage, | Jun 15 16:02 |
nicktastic | schestowitz: Yes, positive | Jun 15 16:02 |
oiaohm | virtual machine does not mean virtual cpu. | Jun 15 16:03 |
oiaohm | Java uses a JIT | Jun 15 16:03 |
oiaohm | Just in time complier. | Jun 15 16:03 |
oiaohm | Reprocesses the bytecode to native cpu bytecode. | Jun 15 16:03 |
_Mutex_ | Yes, so a virtual cpu, is a CPU, or put another way is a layer, its the same as the micro-code within the cpu that is used to interprept CPU instructions (byte-code) and you know execute them. so your right,, sort of on this one | Jun 15 16:03 |
_Mutex_ | well done, thankyou | Jun 15 16:04 |
oiaohm | Let not have to do this again _Mutex_ | Jun 15 16:04 |
_Mutex_ | deal :) | Jun 15 16:05 |
_Mutex_ | and im really glad you are as good natured about it as you are, its enjoyable,, thankyou | Jun 15 16:05 |
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DaemonMDV | Google is investigating Bings search algorithm | Jun 15 16:15 |
DaemonMDV | according to the New York Post | Jun 15 16:15 |
_Mutex_ | probably getting worried :) | Jun 15 16:16 |
DaemonMDV | http://www.nypost.com/seven/06142009/business/fear_grips_google_174235.htm | Jun 15 16:16 |
DaemonMDV | Fear Grips Google | Jun 15 16:16 |
nicktastic | eyeroll | Jun 15 16:16 |
DaemonMDV | You'd think nothing would get under the skin of search giant Google. | Jun 15 16:17 |
DaemonMDV | But co-founder Sergey Brin is so rattled by the launch of Microsoft's rival search engine that he has assembled a team of top engineers to work on urgent upgrades to his Web service, The Post has learned. | Jun 15 16:17 |
_Mutex_ | wow, improved service due to competition, amazing how that works :) | Jun 15 16:17 |
DaemonMDV | "New search engines have come and gone in the past 10 years, but Bing seems to be of particular interest to Sergey," said one insider, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. | Jun 15 16:17 |
DaemonMDV | The move by Brin is unusual, as it is rare these days for the Google founders to have such hands-on involvement in day-to-day operations at the company, the source added. | Jun 15 16:17 |
MinceR | perhaps he bought some MSFT stock, made the "leak" and then sold it | Jun 15 16:18 |
schestowitz | Balrog: I know, I wrote about it. | Jun 15 16:18 |
MinceR | but i guess i'm jaded and cynical. | Jun 15 16:18 |
MinceR | hm, misquote | Jun 15 16:18 |
schestowitz | Balrog: I wrote about it twice. http://bit.ly/Kltkt | Jun 15 16:18 |
MinceR | "but i guess i'm just jaded and cynical." | Jun 15 16:19 |
DaemonMDV | Early statistics show Bing increasing Microsoft's market share by two percentage points, to about 11 percent -- but that the gains largely didn't come from Google or Yahoo! | Jun 15 16:19 |
_Mutex_ | someone here jaded and cynical,, no it cant be !!! :) | Jun 15 16:19 |
_Mutex_ | I dont believe it | Jun 15 16:19 |
schestowitz | nicktastic: I've downloaded it | Jun 15 16:19 |
*MinceR gives _Mutex_ some Not Butter. | Jun 15 16:19 | |
schestowitz | I'll listen to it tonight | Jun 15 16:19 |
schestowitz | Thanks for the headsup | Jun 15 16:19 |
_Mutex_ | "We dedicate more time and energy to search than anything else in our company" note its NOT their OS they spend their time and effort on. Odd | Jun 15 16:20 |
DaemonMDV | Myspace is tanking | Jun 15 16:21 |
DaemonMDV | speculation has it that they're about to fire half their people | Jun 15 16:21 |
DaemonMDV | http://www.businessinsider.com/myspace-is-in-far-worse-shape-than-its-new-executives-thought-2009-6 | Jun 15 16:22 |
Balrog | ahh, I didn't know ... | Jun 15 16:22 |
Balrog | ok | Jun 15 16:22 |
DaemonMDV | heh | Jun 15 16:22 |
_Mutex_ | does anyone actually use myspace anymore ? | Jun 15 16:23 |
_Mutex_ | or ever | Jun 15 16:23 |
DaemonMDV | these social networking sites, great place for XSS attacks | Jun 15 16:23 |
DaemonMDV | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG4-Jk5dYgQ | Jun 15 16:26 |
DaemonMDV | Teen Arrested in Fla. Cat Killings | Jun 15 16:27 |
DaemonMDV | they should skin him | Jun 15 16:27 |
MinceR | well, everyone at a particular department dedicates more time and energy to what the department is about than anything else the company does :> | Jun 15 16:27 |
MinceR | that way they can claim the same about everything they do. | Jun 15 16:27 |
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schestowitz | _Mutex_: myspace management quit | Jun 15 16:28 |
schestowitz | Passing fad | Jun 15 16:29 |
schestowitz | Next one is Twitter | Jun 15 16:29 |
schestowitz | Already going down | Jun 15 16:29 |
schestowitz | Digg is the predecessor | Jun 15 16:29 |
schestowitz | Maybe Slashdot the precessors of that | Jun 15 16:29 |
_Mutex_ | realy, thats bad, and it is a bit, and I guess its much the same as facebook, | Jun 15 16:29 |
MinceR | digg needs to go down too | Jun 15 16:29 |
schestowitz | Among more. There's also Reddit | Jun 15 16:29 |
_Mutex_ | ahh ok, | Jun 15 16:29 |
schestowitz | I'll be back in 2 hours. It's sunny out. | Jun 15 16:29 |
_Mutex_ | have fun:) | Jun 15 16:29 |
_Mutex_ | in the sun | Jun 15 16:29 |
_Mutex_ | 2 am here, not too much sun, | Jun 15 16:29 |
_Mutex_ | you got it all :( | Jun 15 16:30 |
DaemonMDV | http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/stories/2009/06/15/daily3.html | Jun 15 16:30 |
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DaemonMDV | unions bully Bell Helicopter | Jun 15 16:30 |
DaemonMDV | watch those jobs head to India | Jun 15 16:31 |
DaemonMDV | and if they don't, it's because Bell has government contracts and the union workers are stealing their pay increases from taxpayers | Jun 15 16:32 |
_Mutex_ | they did that here with out airline, then our planes started to fall apart, so they brought the mainenance contracts back here, :) | Jun 15 16:32 |
DaemonMDV | so they know they can do better than 18% increases over the next 3 years | Jun 15 16:32 |
_Mutex_ | sometimes quality wins over price | Jun 15 16:32 |
DaemonMDV | usually doesn't | Jun 15 16:32 |
_Mutex_ | especially in fixing jet aircraft. | Jun 15 16:32 |
_Mutex_ | usually does in fact, , but yes, sometimes does not | Jun 15 16:33 |
DaemonMDV | RCA televisions are crap ever since they started making them in China | Jun 15 16:33 |
DaemonMDV | nobody worries about durability | Jun 15 16:33 |
DaemonMDV | nobody cares if a TV built in Marion, Indiana lasts 30 years | Jun 15 16:33 |
amarsh04 | back in a few, trying new kernel... | Jun 15 16:33 |
DaemonMDV | when the things are declared "obsolete" ever y5 years | Jun 15 16:33 |
DaemonMDV | if a Chinese product lasts til the industry declares it "obsolete", people figure it's good enough | Jun 15 16:34 |
_Mutex_ | "sturdy outside case to stop fallapart, custom molded handgrips" Homer: great we'll take the carnavarlie :) | Jun 15 16:34 |
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DaemonMDV | at the same time, Walmart ratchets up the price so eventually the Chinese TV costs as much as the one built in Marion Indiana | Jun 15 16:35 |
DaemonMDV | and the Walmart and RCA/Thomson execs pocket what the workers were making | Jun 15 16:35 |
_Mutex_ | damn you standard business practice :( | Jun 15 16:35 |
_Mutex_ | fancy employing people and earning money ,, DAMN YOU.. | Jun 15 16:36 |
DaemonMDV | they don't employee Americans, they export our money | Jun 15 16:36 |
DaemonMDV | and we get laid off | Jun 15 16:36 |
DaemonMDV | what's in it for 90% of the people here? | Jun 15 16:36 |
_Mutex_ | um,,, nothing is in it. | Jun 15 16:36 |
DaemonMDV | they wonder why crime is going up | Jun 15 16:37 |
DaemonMDV | fuck, when selling drugs is the only way to make money | Jun 15 16:37 |
DaemonMDV | people sell some drugs | Jun 15 16:37 |
_Mutex_ | except the massive requirement to develop your own industries once again, | Jun 15 16:37 |
DaemonMDV | huge surprise, huh? | Jun 15 16:37 |
DaemonMDV | no, the government does what the government always does | Jun 15 16:38 |
_Mutex_ | its hard to sell drugs to people who have little or no money because they dont have a job :), unless they steal it, (as they often do). | Jun 15 16:38 |
DaemonMDV | hire more police and arms them with military grade weapons | Jun 15 16:38 |
_Mutex_ | So you get to employ more police, and prison guards | Jun 15 16:38 |
DaemonMDV | like that will solve anything | Jun 15 16:38 |
DaemonMDV | exactly | Jun 15 16:38 |
DaemonMDV | it's not just the unemployed | Jun 15 16:38 |
_Mutex_ | or do what the US traditionally does in these matters, | Jun 15 16:38 |
DaemonMDV | rich people do lots of cocaine and pot | Jun 15 16:39 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 16:39 |
_Mutex_ | GO to war against it | Jun 15 16:39 |
DaemonMDV | some of the worst drug abuse goes on in gated communities | Jun 15 16:39 |
DaemonMDV | where the police ignore it | Jun 15 16:39 |
_Mutex_ | unfortunately drugs, (good and bad) have been around for as long or longer than people have, | Jun 15 16:40 |
DaemonMDV | yeah, government doesn't care about it either | Jun 15 16:41 |
DaemonMDV | it's a permanent excuse to grant themselves more power | Jun 15 16:41 |
DaemonMDV | if it were all suddenly wiped out somehow, they'd lose a valuable excuse | Jun 15 16:41 |
_Mutex_ | Even animals in the wild seek out drugs for a quick high !! (and its damn funny to watch) a bunch of drunk animals that have eaten fermented fruit, | Jun 15 16:42 |
_Mutex_ | considering the amount of money the government makes of tobaccoo and alchohol its no wonder, | Jun 15 16:43 |
DaemonMDV | http://pageoneq.com/stories/nyc06152009.html | Jun 15 16:43 |
DaemonMDV | NYC officials duped into approving first gay marriage | Jun 15 16:43 |
DaemonMDV | lmfao | Jun 15 16:43 |
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DaemonMDV | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526234,00.html | Jun 15 16:44 |
DaemonMDV | 14-Year-Old Discovers Rare Supernova in Nearby Galaxy | Jun 15 16:44 |
DaemonMDV | I always had wondered what the Christians answer to the whole speed of light thing was | Jun 15 16:46 |
DaemonMDV | if that star is 70 million light years from here, we're watching it go supernova and collapse into a black hole 70 million years after it actually happened | Jun 15 16:46 |
DaemonMDV | but they claim the place is 10,000 years old and god snapped his fingers | Jun 15 16:47 |
nicktastic | He's testing your faith. | Jun 15 16:47 |
DaemonMDV | and it all appeared from nothingness :P | Jun 15 16:47 |
_Mutex_ | christians answer to anything they cant explain "act of god" | Jun 15 16:48 |
DaemonMDV | you're right, God put those beams of light and radiation 10,000 light years out from Earth so we could watch something that never happened | Jun 15 16:48 |
DaemonMDV | and he could use the hoax to test us | Jun 15 16:48 |
nicktastic | Exactly | Jun 15 16:48 |
DaemonMDV | brilliant! | Jun 15 16:48 |
nicktastic | Dinosaurs never existed, either | Jun 15 16:48 |
nicktastic | "Did you believe in dinosaurs?" "Well, yeah, there were bones everywhere." "You dumb-ass, that's one of God's OLDEST tricks." | Jun 15 16:49 |
_Mutex_ | in engineering ,, process 1, process 2 > Process2 > then a miracle occures > process 4 .... | Jun 15 16:49 |
nicktastic | "Giant flying lizards, come on. | Jun 15 16:49 |
nicktastic | " | Jun 15 16:49 |
nicktastic | (R.I.P. Bill Hicks) | Jun 15 16:49 |
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DaemonMDV | do I believe in dinosaurs? Yes, the Republicans in Congress are the oldest living examples | Jun 15 16:49 |
DaemonMDV | shhhh, they're about to ban gay marriage :P | Jun 15 16:50 |
DaemonMDV | again | Jun 15 16:50 |
DaemonMDV | just how many times can you ban something anyway? | Jun 15 16:50 |
_Mutex_ | ofcouse if you ask the photon of light how long the trip took, it would say "what trip" or "it ended at the same moment it started". IE, NO time passed AT ALL. | Jun 15 16:50 |
DaemonMDV | political posturing ftw! | Jun 15 16:50 |
DaemonMDV | there was some crazy whacked out Catholic that wrote a book explaining a scientific conspiracy to use the LHC to make an antimatter bomb to blow up Vatican City | Jun 15 16:51 |
_Mutex_ | funny I thought marrage was a religious thing, and government was a government thing, and that there is no connection between church and state ?? | Jun 15 16:51 |
DaemonMDV | claiming just half a gram would do it | Jun 15 16:51 |
DaemonMDV | but also forget to mention how long it would take to make that much | Jun 15 16:52 |
DaemonMDV | or how big the storage container would be | Jun 15 16:52 |
DaemonMDV | it would be more practical to just nuke Vatican City | Jun 15 16:52 |
DaemonMDV | cause the nuclear bomb would be far smaller | Jun 15 16:52 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 16:52 |
_Mutex_ | anit-matter bomb == nuclear bomb. (well the results are exactly the same) | Jun 15 16:52 |
DaemonMDV | yeah, but the antimatter bomb would have to be about 20 times the size of a conventional nuclear weapon | Jun 15 16:53 |
DaemonMDV | so they might as well just use the nuke | Jun 15 16:53 |
DaemonMDV | right? | Jun 15 16:53 |
_Mutex_ | yes | Jun 15 16:53 |
Balrog | DaemonMDV: and how expensive it would be to make that much | Jun 15 16:53 |
DaemonMDV | I mean this hypothetical anti-Catholic cabal | Jun 15 16:53 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 16:53 |
_Mutex_ | anti matter + matter = pure energy | Jun 15 16:53 |
DaemonMDV | if that was the point of building the LHC, they wouldn't do it | Jun 15 16:54 |
DaemonMDV | they'd just use a nuke | Jun 15 16:54 |
_Mutex_ | matter in nuclear reaction = pure energy | Jun 15 16:54 |
splosion | Thermonuclear weapons are super interesting. They use a fission reaction to cause a much larger fusion reaction. Which tells you why they're so hard to build. You need a nuclear bomb to detonate a nuclear bomb. | Jun 15 16:54 |
DaemonMDV | Vatican City isn't huge either, it's not like it would take a huge bomb to wipe it out | Jun 15 16:54 |
DaemonMDV | no, the primary blast is caused by conventional explosives | Jun 15 16:55 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Patent terrorist Microsoft whines about patents: http://digg.com/d1tsKJ?t | Jun 15 16:55 | |
splosion | Well yeah, it's a three-stage thing. Normal explosives put the fission reaction into motion, which then trigger the fusion. | Jun 15 16:55 |
_Mutex_ | if you needed a nuke to detonate a nuke, you would never get it, what detonates the first nuke ? another one ,, what detonates that one ?? another one ?? and so on :) | Jun 15 16:56 |
DaemonMDV | yes, but it's not a nuclear explosion that causes the reaction | Jun 15 16:56 |
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splosion | Well, how initially do you want to get here? :P | Jun 15 16:57 |
_Mutex_ | no its critical mass, created by using conventional explosions to push 2 bits of "stuff" together | Jun 15 16:57 |
DaemonMDV | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Gun-type_fission_weapon_en-labels_thin_lines.svg | Jun 15 16:57 |
DaemonMDV | your most basic atomic bomb | Jun 15 16:57 |
DaemonMDV | the one dropped on Hiroshima | Jun 15 16:57 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 16:57 |
splosion | _Mutex_: sure, in atomic bombs uranium or plutonium chunks are smashed together by explosives. But when they do the atoms are broken apart, not fused. | Jun 15 16:58 |
DaemonMDV | unfortunately it's really not safe to handle that kind of a bomb | Jun 15 16:58 |
DaemonMDV | because it could accidentally detonate | Jun 15 16:58 |
_Mutex_ | you know coax cable was invented by the manhatten project (the stuff going to your telly) | Jun 15 16:58 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 16:58 |
splosion | neat | Jun 15 16:59 |
_Mutex_ | actually its really really had to detonate one, it involves incredably accurate timing of the detonation charges, or it wont splode | Jun 15 16:59 |
_Mutex_ | had == hard | Jun 15 16:59 |
_Mutex_ | which is why they needed coax to trigger the multiple charges | Jun 15 17:00 |
_Mutex_ | for FAT BOY (and the other one) | Jun 15 17:00 |
splosion | another thing that people don't understand about these weapons is that there aren't many secrets to building them. You could give a "How to build an atomic bomb" manual to, I don't know, Gambia, and they wouldn't be able to make one because they don't have the tech. if they had the tech, they'd probably already have built one | Jun 15 17:01 |
_Mutex_ | yes, exactly, years ago here in Aus the local electronics magazine published an article on how to build your own at home !!! | Jun 15 17:02 |
splosion | I saw the blueprints for the UK's first atomic bomb posted on wikileaks, and people were commenting in the talk section about "ooooh, North Korea could look at this!!!" what idiots! | Jun 15 17:02 |
_Mutex_ | getting the plutonium was the tricky bit, (as was converting your house into a custom bomb). | Jun 15 17:02 |
_Mutex_ | its not like its rocket surgury !! | Jun 15 17:03 |
splosion | hahaha | Jun 15 17:03 |
_Mutex_ | :) | Jun 15 17:03 |
DaemonMDV | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Toaster | Jun 15 17:04 |
DaemonMDV | hmmm | Jun 15 17:04 |
_Mutex_ | not that IMO is not a bad idea, (in some places), assuming they happen to have a computer to use the S/W on | Jun 15 17:06 |
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_Mutex_ | otherwise, not such a good idea, | Jun 15 17:06 |
_Mutex_ | but I would south africa could probably use condom vending machines more, (giving them freedom to live). | Jun 15 17:07 |
DaemonMDV | yeah, AIDS is a huge problem there | Jun 15 17:07 |
DaemonMDV | 20% infection rate I believe | Jun 15 17:07 |
_Mutex_ | 1 in 5 there have aids, the president says, "how can a virus give you a syndrome). | Jun 15 17:07 |
DaemonMDV | meh, HIV/AIDS | Jun 15 17:08 |
DaemonMDV | is that better? | Jun 15 17:08 |
_Mutex_ | correct 1 in 5 is 20%, most families have one or more members with it, shocking. | Jun 15 17:08 |
DaemonMDV | I've always wanted to visit South Africa though | Jun 15 17:08 |
DaemonMDV | it looks beautiful | Jun 15 17:08 |
_Hicham_ | u are the source of AIDS | Jun 15 17:09 |
_Hicham_ | AIDS was discovered in the US | Jun 15 17:09 |
_Hicham_ | in 1981 | Jun 15 17:09 |
DaemonMDV | wrong | Jun 15 17:10 |
DaemonMDV | first death of it here was in the 50s | Jun 15 17:10 |
DaemonMDV | it was brought here by Haitians | Jun 15 17:10 |
_Hicham_ | haha, as always, the media eats ur brains easily | Jun 15 17:10 |
DaemonMDV | the other "patient zero" was an airline steward from the UK | Jun 15 17:10 |
DaemonMDV | that turned out to be wrong | Jun 15 17:11 |
_Hicham_ | that is the US | Jun 15 17:11 |
_Mutex_ | I was saying the other day if anyone knew how it got into the human population, the answer is, some guy while making polio vaccine decided to use primate livers for the cultures (its usually cows), primate were too close the humans, and no care was taken to ensure no viruses were included, then a heap of people in africa got the polio vaccine, and contracted aids, that batch of vaccine could of gone anywhere, US, Aus anywhere, just bad luck it w | Jun 15 17:11 |
DaemonMDV | it originated in Africa | Jun 15 17:11 |
_Hicham_ | no, patient zero was a gay | Jun 15 17:11 |
DaemonMDV | no | Jun 15 17:11 |
_Hicham_ | from the US | Jun 15 17:11 |
DaemonMDV | that's a stereotype | Jun 15 17:11 |
DaemonMDV | probably taught by propagandists in the third world | Jun 15 17:11 |
_Mutex_ | patient zero (not the one that came to the us) was some african who got the polio vaccine. | Jun 15 17:11 |
DaemonMDV | the fucking Muslims and Christians always have to look for ways to demonize gay people | Jun 15 17:12 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.avert.org/origins.htm | Jun 15 17:12 |
DaemonMDV | because their own sick fucking religion always needs as many enemies as it can come up with | Jun 15 17:12 |
_Hicham_ | go all over the net | Jun 15 17:12 |
_Hicham_ | u will find what I am saying | Jun 15 17:12 |
DaemonMDV | _Hicham_: It's not intelligent (something you seem to have in common with the virus) | Jun 15 17:13 |
DaemonMDV | it will infect whoever's bloodstream it enters | Jun 15 17:13 |
_Hicham_ | I know | Jun 15 17:13 |
_Hicham_ | but u know sthg? | Jun 15 17:13 |
DaemonMDV | HIV does not care if you're straight | Jun 15 17:14 |
_Hicham_ | Chimpanzes can live with HIV | Jun 15 17:14 |
DaemonMDV | you could catch it from a woman | Jun 15 17:14 |
DaemonMDV | no they can't | Jun 15 17:14 |
DaemonMDV | HIV is humans | Jun 15 17:14 |
_Hicham_ | HIV can't kill champanzes | Jun 15 17:14 |
DaemonMDV | SIV is simian | Jun 15 17:14 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 17:14 |
DaemonMDV | two different viruses | Jun 15 17:14 |
_Hicham_ | so maybe this virus was caught during bestiality sex | Jun 15 17:14 |
_Hicham_ | that is one of the theories | Jun 15 17:15 |
DaemonMDV | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian_Immunodeficiency_Virus | Jun 15 17:15 |
_Hicham_ | viruses do not create themselves | Jun 15 17:15 |
DaemonMDV | _Hicham_: So I'd like to know how you can prove that a gay man did this | Jun 15 17:15 |
_Hicham_ | they just need sthg to bring them to life | Jun 15 17:15 |
DaemonMDV | since you obviously can't | Jun 15 17:15 |
DaemonMDV | did your particular third world Information Minister tell you? | Jun 15 17:15 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 17:15 |
_Hicham_ | no | Jun 15 17:16 |
_Hicham_ | I analyze things in my mind | Jun 15 17:16 |
_Hicham_ | not like u | Jun 15 17:16 |
_Hicham_ | u are easily fucked by the mass media | Jun 15 17:16 |
DaemonMDV | so you can prove it then | Jun 15 17:16 |
DaemonMDV | you know exactly where it came from | Jun 15 17:16 |
DaemonMDV | who had it first | Jun 15 17:16 |
splosion | "A more controversial theory known as the OPV AIDS hypothesis suggests that the AIDS epidemic was inadvertently started in the late 1950s in the Belgian Congo by Hilary Koprowski's research into a poliomyelitis vaccine.[138][139] According to scientific consensus, this scenario is not supported by the available evidence" hrmm | Jun 15 17:16 |
DaemonMDV | cause I'm sure thousands of REAL scientists and doctors would love to know | Jun 15 17:16 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 17:16 |
_Hicham_ | as I told u, nothing can create itself | Jun 15 17:17 |
_Hicham_ | this is one of the basic principles of physics | Jun 15 17:17 |
_Hicham_ | it is called Lavoisier's Law | Jun 15 17:18 |
_Hicham_ | if u ever studied physics | Jun 15 17:18 |
DaemonMDV | so what did cause life? | Jun 15 17:18 |
DaemonMDV | all life? | Jun 15 17:18 |
splosion | Reading up on that vaccine. Turns out people in Europe got that vaccine too and didn't end up with AIDS. | Jun 15 17:18 |
DaemonMDV | first living cell? | Jun 15 17:18 |
DaemonMDV | since you can tell me | Jun 15 17:18 |
DaemonMDV | oh wise one | Jun 15 17:18 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 17:18 |
splosion | http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/aids/poliovac-hiv-aids-qa.htm Look here for more info yo | Jun 15 17:19 |
_Hicham_ | why u want to know the genesis of life? | Jun 15 17:19 |
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DaemonMDV | the real one | Jun 15 17:19 |
DaemonMDV | none of this made up religious bullshit | Jun 15 17:19 |
DaemonMDV | cause that's already been debunked | Jun 15 17:19 |
_Hicham_ | the big bang theory explain it a little bit | Jun 15 17:20 |
neighborlee | If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must be the truth :) | Jun 15 17:20 |
DaemonMDV | no, the big bang theory didn't cause life | Jun 15 17:20 |
DaemonMDV | it formed the universe | Jun 15 17:20 |
splosion | "Will HIV or HIV-like viruses grow in cell cultures like those used to produce the vaccine? No, HIV and related viruses do not grow in cultures of kidney cells like those used to produce the vaccine." | Jun 15 17:20 |
DaemonMDV | keep going | Jun 15 17:20 |
_Hicham_ | since it have been proved that the big crunch has already started | Jun 15 17:20 |
neighborlee | DaemonMDV, and what created the bang | Jun 15 17:20 |
neighborlee | DaemonMDV, and what created that.. | Jun 15 17:20 |
DaemonMDV | nothing had to | Jun 15 17:20 |
_Mutex_ | nothing can create itseld, puts a huge damper on "EVOLUTION" :) | Jun 15 17:20 |
neighborlee | and that,,and that... | Jun 15 17:20 |
neighborlee | DaemonMDV, prove it | Jun 15 17:20 |
_Hicham_ | no one knows the origins of life | Jun 15 17:21 |
neighborlee | EXactly | Jun 15 17:21 |
_Hicham_ | we simply can't know it | Jun 15 17:21 |
neighborlee | :)you got it | Jun 15 17:21 |
_Hicham_ | our minds are limited | Jun 15 17:21 |
neighborlee | we're..uneqiuped to answer that. | Jun 15 17:21 |
DaemonMDV | no, nobody witnessed it | Jun 15 17:21 |
DaemonMDV | and so whatever goofball story you want to say happened, happened | Jun 15 17:21 |
DaemonMDV | that's how religion preys on people | Jun 15 17:21 |
neighborlee | no | Jun 15 17:22 |
neighborlee | thats how fear preys | Jun 15 17:22 |
neighborlee | on those who are afraid to believe | Jun 15 17:22 |
splosion | here's an interesting fact for you, a star of mostly hydrogen will not produce much in the way of dense elements in its lifetime. To make planets and life, you need a whole series of stars to be born and blow up before there is enough material. You, me, and everybody else are made up of star dust. Pretty neat | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Mutex_ | the "big crunch" has not started, we are expanding, faster and faster, its called "inflation". | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Hicham_ | Religion tries to explain things | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Hicham_ | so that all people can understand | Jun 15 17:22 |
DaemonMDV | there is no big crunch either | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Hicham_ | and live in peace | Jun 15 17:22 |
neighborlee | exactly | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Hicham_ | there is big crunch | Jun 15 17:22 |
DaemonMDV | the universe is expanding faster the further it goes | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Mutex_ | yes thats how you get heavy elements, from supernova | Jun 15 17:22 |
_Mutex_ | inflation | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | no, it is not expanding | Jun 15 17:23 |
DaemonMDV | it will never stop expanding | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | it is shrinking | Jun 15 17:23 |
DaemonMDV | but there is a finite amount of matter | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | it have been proved | Jun 15 17:23 |
DaemonMDV | it's not shrinking | Jun 15 17:23 |
DaemonMDV | it's still expanding | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | it is | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | I seen it on a documentary | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Mutex_ | there is not enough mass in the universe to create a big crunsh, and not its expanding, faster and faster, | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Mutex_ | well speed of light fast anyway | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | how do u define matter? | Jun 15 17:23 |
DaemonMDV | stellar drift will eventually cause the stars to not be visible from any planet | Jun 15 17:23 |
_Hicham_ | what is matter? | Jun 15 17:24 |
_Hicham_ | how do u define it? | Jun 15 17:24 |
DaemonMDV | but thats billions of years from now | Jun 15 17:24 |
_Mutex_ | its generally defined as anything with mass, | Jun 15 17:24 |
splosion | _Hicham_: you mean all that stuff in the periodic table of elements? We can define that stuff pretty well, actually | Jun 15 17:24 |
_Hicham_ | what is mass? | Jun 15 17:24 |
_Hicham_ | the stuff is the periodic table of elements is only 4% of the universe | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Mutex_ | get a hammer and hit yourself on the head, and you will feel exactly what mass it | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | and even less | Jun 15 17:25 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, we dont know yet | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Mutex_ | its stuff | Jun 15 17:25 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, what gives things mass | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | _Mutex_ : u are talking intuitively | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | not from a physical point of view | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | intuition is killing u | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | us | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | intuition can be misleading | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Mutex_ | physics is an intuative science (to a degree), | Jun 15 17:25 |
_Hicham_ | no | Jun 15 17:26 |
_Mutex_ | yes it can | Jun 15 17:26 |
_Hicham_ | it is not | Jun 15 17:26 |
splosion | So dark energy and dark matter, huh? We don't know what that stuff is, not concretely, but people are attempting to find out. That's science for ya, tsk | Jun 15 17:26 |
_Hicham_ | quantum physics are not intuitive | Jun 15 17:26 |
neighborlee | splosion, exactly | Jun 15 17:26 |
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_Mutex_ | we dont know very much about dark matter or dark energy at all, | Jun 15 17:26 |
_Hicham_ | yes, what is dark matter and dark energy? | Jun 15 17:26 |
_Hicham_ | so, we don't know how much energy is there in the universe | Jun 15 17:27 |
mtnd3w | hello all | Jun 15 17:27 |
_Mutex_ | but because we dont know much about them, does not make them any less real, they form past of the "standard model" | Jun 15 17:27 |
_Hicham_ | there is some huge gamma rays out there | Jun 15 17:27 |
mtnd3w | did anyone get a chance to read this: "Mono Part of Debian's Default Desktop Install?" http://www.osnews.com/story/21660/Mono_Part_of_Debian_s_Default_Desktop_Install_ | Jun 15 17:27 |
_Mutex_ | we know how much energy, we just dont know what it is !! | Jun 15 17:27 |
neighborlee | yes GRB we hope we dont have to deal with anytime soon ;) | Jun 15 17:27 |
_Hicham_ | _Mutex_ : no we don't | Jun 15 17:27 |
_Hicham_ | we can't know how much energy | Jun 15 17:28 |
_Hicham_ | energy is a vague concept | Jun 15 17:28 |
_Hicham_ | there is a lot of forms of energy | Jun 15 17:28 |
_Hicham_ | some knowns, some not | Jun 15 17:28 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, except to those that think they know ev erything ;)) | Jun 15 17:28 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, to those whom science is a 'religion' ;)) | Jun 15 17:28 |
_Hicham_ | like Mr DaemonMDV | Jun 15 17:28 |
neighborlee | :) | Jun 15 17:28 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonMDV is a big scientist | Jun 15 17:28 |
_Hicham_ | that is why we should listen to him | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Mutex_ | we can because we can estimate it, can calculate (approcimately) the energy and mass from background radiation from the big bang, the size and age of the universe, and its rate of expansion | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Mutex_ | and by the rate of plantary orbits and so on (how they worked out dark matter in the first place) | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Mutex_ | you and me are "dark matter" | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Mutex_ | we dont emit light | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Hicham_ | that is not dark matter | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Mutex_ | yes it is :) | Jun 15 17:29 |
_Hicham_ | u r not understanding the concept | Jun 15 17:30 |
_Hicham_ | dark matter is a form of matter that is not formed by atoms | Jun 15 17:30 |
_Hicham_ | that is dark matter | Jun 15 17:30 |
_Hicham_ | dark matter doesn't exist yet on the periodic table | Jun 15 17:30 |
mtnd3w | "Josselin Mouette has made Tomboy a dependency for GNOME on Debian Squeeze, which means that Mono is now part of GNOME for Debian Squeeze as well." | Jun 15 17:30 |
_Hicham_ | me and you exist on the periodic table | Jun 15 17:31 |
_Mutex_ | that is "dark" such as rocks, people, trees, and so on.. | Jun 15 17:31 |
_Mutex_ | nor does "normal matter" | Jun 15 17:31 |
neighborlee | In astronomy and cosmology, dark matter is hypothetical matter. | Jun 15 17:31 |
splosion | mtnd3w: yeah, we heard about that | Jun 15 17:31 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonMDV is not dark, because there is a light coming from his ass | Jun 15 17:31 |
_Hicham_ | his ass is so big from continuous fucking | Jun 15 17:31 |
_Mutex_ | LOL | Jun 15 17:31 |
_Hicham_ | he is being fucked day and night | Jun 15 17:31 |
*splosion rolleyes | Jun 15 17:31 | |
DaemonMDV | yeah, probably not so much | Jun 15 17:32 |
neighborlee | mtnd3w, doesnt really matter.< nasty pun totally accidental>..when all other<most> distros are removing mono they will likely have to comply ;) | Jun 15 17:32 |
_Hicham_ | dark is a concept that was created to explain some unexplainable things | Jun 15 17:33 |
_Hicham_ | it reminds me of Plank's Desperate Theory | Jun 15 17:33 |
_Hicham_ | back in early 1900 | Jun 15 17:33 |
_Mutex_ | like the plank constant, that was desperate ? yet there it is, still in use, (must be right) | Jun 15 17:34 |
_Hicham_ | it is not the constant | Jun 15 17:34 |
_Mutex_ | and is fundamental to quantum physics | Jun 15 17:34 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, yup | Jun 15 17:34 |
_Mutex_ | its a length | Jun 15 17:34 |
_Mutex_ | of constant size | Jun 15 17:34 |
_Hicham_ | i am talking about the theory | Jun 15 17:35 |
_Hicham_ | that the energy transfer is not continuous | Jun 15 17:35 |
_Mutex_ | like 1inch is a constant, (ie it does not change) | Jun 15 17:35 |
mtnd3w | neighborlee: it seems like a small amount of the Debian community is pushing Mono? | Jun 15 17:35 |
_Hicham_ | that is the Desperate Theory | Jun 15 17:35 |
splosion | mtnd3w: yup. It's pretty much the same across the board for that | Jun 15 17:35 |
neighborlee | mtnd3w, must be small..I remmeber the debian ML when JO was pushing it, and he was getting alot of push back, as referring him to debian legal | Jun 15 17:35 |
_Mutex_ | yes without plank's constant, TV or radio would not work (or light globes) or well matter or anything for that matter (:D) I know !!! | Jun 15 17:37 |
_Hicham_ | Einstein was partially against quantum physics | Jun 15 17:38 |
_Mutex_ | yes without planks constant, E =mc2 would not be possible, | Jun 15 17:39 |
_Mutex_ | yet* | Jun 15 17:39 |
_Hicham_ | he didn't agree with the probalistic theory | Jun 15 17:39 |
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_Hicham_ | for him, everything can be determined in advance | Jun 15 17:39 |
_Hicham_ | if we have enough data | Jun 15 17:39 |
splosion | People fought quantum mechanics, just as people fought against Cantor and Newton | Jun 15 17:40 |
_Mutex_ | luckly those at CERN and the LHC know about it, (and use it to do their work, LHC would not be possible without it). | Jun 15 17:40 |
_Mutex_ | in fact the PHOTOELECTRIC EFFECT that gave einstean his nobel price is based on teh plank's constant !! | Jun 15 17:41 |
_Mutex_ | so there !! | Jun 15 17:41 |
_Mutex_ | *pokes out tongue | Jun 15 17:41 |
_Hicham_ | he wasn't against that | Jun 15 17:41 |
_Hicham_ | as I told u | Jun 15 17:41 |
splosion | he was against Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle, right? | Jun 15 17:42 |
_Hicham_ | right | Jun 15 17:42 |
_Hicham_ | very right | Jun 15 17:42 |
_Mutex_ | people also fought against the earth being round too, does not make them right | Jun 15 17:43 |
_Hicham_ | Heisenberg's Principle brought a lot of overhead to physicists | Jun 15 17:43 |
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splosion | I never really understood that principle. For the maths I do, my equations always work both ways. Trying to visualise the uncertainty principle makes my brain asplode | Jun 15 17:43 |
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_Mutex_ | heisenberg's uncertaintly principle is probabilistic, it just states if you measure something you change it | Jun 15 17:43 |
_Hicham_ | splosion : that is what i am talking about | Jun 15 17:43 |
_Hicham_ | _Mutex_ : unfortunately it is not that | Jun 15 17:44 |
_Hicham_ | u didn't read the Principle well | Jun 15 17:44 |
_Mutex_ | yes it is | Jun 15 17:44 |
_Mutex_ | I didnt have too, | Jun 15 17:44 |
_Hicham_ | it says : u can't mesure speed and position at the same time with the certitude u want | Jun 15 17:45 |
_Mutex_ | its the process of observation that can effect the result, if you put a thomometer into water, that thomometer will change the temperature of the water, creating an uncertainty, (it was actually related to electron spin). | Jun 15 17:45 |
_Mutex_ | yes thats right | Jun 15 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | that principle is used in electronics too | Jun 15 17:46 |
_Mutex_ | you can measure anything even one of those without changing it | Jun 15 17:46 |
_Mutex_ | ofcourse it is, | Jun 15 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | do u do electronics? | Jun 15 17:47 |
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_Mutex_ | when you put a meter on a circuit, the meter draws some power from the circuit, changing the value you read | Jun 15 17:47 |
_Mutex_ | you cannto measure anything sorry | Jun 15 17:47 |
Omar87 | Hello everyone! | Jun 15 17:47 |
Omar87 | Is Gnome Do built with Mono? | Jun 15 17:47 |
_Hicham_ | مرحبا بالسيد عمر | Jun 15 17:48 |
_Mutex_ | exactly :) | Jun 15 17:49 |
_Hicham_ | نعم إن غنوم دو مبني ب مونو | Jun 15 17:49 |
Omar87 | _Hicham_: حيا الله أخونا هشام | Jun 15 17:49 |
splosion | Omar87: Gnome-Do depends on "Depends: libmono-addins0.2-cil Depends: libmono-cairo2.0-cil Depends: libmono-corlib2.0-cil Depends: libmono-posix2.0-cil Depends: libmono-system2.0-cil " on my system. | Jun 15 17:49 |
Omar87 | _Hicham_: لا حول و لا قوة إلا بالله | Jun 15 17:49 |
splosion | Oh and "Depends: mono-runtime" | Jun 15 17:49 |
_Hicham_ | إياك ثم إياك أن تقوم بتثبيته على حاسوبك | Jun 15 17:49 |
Omar87 | splosion: Alright guys, thanks for the info. | Jun 15 17:50 |
_Hicham_ | splosion : is it Ubuntu | Jun 15 17:50 |
splosion | so, yes | Jun 15 17:50 |
splosion | aye | Jun 15 17:50 |
_Hicham_ | I never used gnome-do | Jun 15 17:50 |
Omar87 | I will purge it off my machine right away, | Jun 15 17:50 |
_Hicham_ | did u install it Omar87? | Jun 15 17:50 |
splosion | look what happens when I apt-get install gnome-do "The following packages will be REMOVED: mononono." | Jun 15 17:51 |
Omar87 | _Hicham_: Yeah, I never knew it was built with Mono. | Jun 15 17:51 |
_Hicham_ | Omar87 : u have to remove the mono runtime | Jun 15 17:51 |
splosion | sudo apt-get autoremove --purge mono-common libmono0 | Jun 15 17:51 |
splosion | or something similar | Jun 15 17:51 |
Omar87 | Thanks | Jun 15 17:52 |
mtnd3w | sudo apt-get remove --purge libmono0 mono-common libgdiplus | Jun 15 17:54 |
_Hicham_ | why are distros packaging it? | Jun 15 17:54 |
mtnd3w | there is one more package | Jun 15 17:54 |
_Hicham_ | I really don't understand | Jun 15 17:54 |
_Hicham_ | who is using it? | Jun 15 17:55 |
Omar87 | lol! It's turned I probably removed it before.. :) | Jun 15 17:55 |
_Hicham_ | what is the advantages of such bytecode? | Jun 15 17:55 |
splosion | mtnd3w: thanks, missed that one | Jun 15 17:55 |
_Hicham_ | we already have Java | Jun 15 17:55 |
_Hicham_ | and the Great Python | Jun 15 17:55 |
Omar87 | I'm not sure when, but I'm glad it's not on my machin anyway. | Jun 15 17:55 |
Omar87 | Python ownz. ;) | Jun 15 17:56 |
Omar87 | By the way guys, there's this amazing app. called Tonido. | Jun 15 17:56 |
Omar87 | You gotta check it out: www.tonido.com | Jun 15 17:56 |
splosion | I submit perfectly awesome scoops to slashdot, they get modded red for awesome, and then they don't get posted on the main page. Fuck you, slashdot. Rarrrrr | Jun 15 17:56 |
_Mutex_ | got a link splosion, Ill read it :) | Jun 15 17:57 |
splosion | http://slashdot.org/submission/1019927/IP-protections-for-climate-change | Jun 15 17:58 |
splosion | seems pretty important to me | Jun 15 17:58 |
splosion | Intellectual property vs saving the world. Guess who wins | Jun 15 17:59 |
_Mutex_ | the heading sounds good allready | Jun 15 17:59 |
_Mutex_ | u moogsynth ?? | Jun 15 18:00 |
_Mutex_ | I have not seen one of them for years :) | Jun 15 18:00 |
splosion | I like the sound :) | Jun 15 18:00 |
_Mutex_ | yes, they were so popular once upon a time, | Jun 15 18:00 |
_Hicham_ | Intellectual property is a basic right | Jun 15 18:01 |
neighborlee | splosion, hmm Ive not heard of that..and I do read and watch msnbc regularly..ok well reading should have covered that, who knows for sure about TV news LOL ;) | Jun 15 18:01 |
neighborlee | splosion, I guess if warming per se doesn't get us..the magnetic field 10% reduction will :)) | Jun 15 18:01 |
neighborlee | or a stray GRB maybe...too bad nasa wasn't funded more heavily all these years ;) | Jun 15 18:02 |
splosion | well, green technology patents in the US at least are held by the oil companies. Mostly, anyway. It gives these folks carte-blanche ability to shoot down proposals to use stuff that might harm their profits | Jun 15 18:04 |
_Mutex_ | yes, we lose our magnetic shield (field) we are toast (literaly). | Jun 15 18:04 |
splosion | pfffft. Bitches don't know bout ma farriday cage | Jun 15 18:05 |
neighborlee | splosion, magine that ;( | Jun 15 18:05 |
*neonfloss has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 15 18:05 | |
_Mutex_ | they are great for stoping radio, not too good with high energy particles. plus its a touch hard to put one around the earth | Jun 15 18:05 |
splosion | shows how much I know about the subject, then :) | Jun 15 18:06 |
splosion | ignorance will be my shield | Jun 15 18:06 |
_Mutex_ | its always worked for me :) | Jun 15 18:06 |
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Jun 15 18:07 | |
splosion | Putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "lalalalala" is the bets way to solve all ills | Jun 15 18:07 |
neighborlee | ;) | Jun 15 18:08 |
_Mutex_ | the big problem is the removing of the atmosphere, making breathing a chore | Jun 15 18:08 |
_Mutex_ | LOL | Jun 15 18:08 |
neighborlee | :) | Jun 15 18:09 |
splosion | tonido looks pretty neat, actually. I might experiment with it | Jun 15 18:09 |
DaemonMDV | hmmm, my mp3 player came in the mail | Jun 15 18:12 |
splosion | what is it? | Jun 15 18:12 |
DaemonMDV | uh oh | Jun 15 18:13 |
DaemonMDV | I don't think Mandriva sees it | Jun 15 18:13 |
DaemonMDV | hmmmm | Jun 15 18:14 |
DaemonMDV | Banshee does | Jun 15 18:14 |
DaemonMDV | what's up with that? | Jun 15 18:15 |
splosion | mtp? | Jun 15 18:15 |
DaemonMDV | yeah | Jun 15 18:15 |
splosion | Bummer | Jun 15 18:15 |
DaemonMDV | so Rhythmbox and Banshee see it | Jun 15 18:16 |
DaemonMDV | but I can't mount it as a file system? | Jun 15 18:16 |
splosion | it's possible for some devices | Jun 15 18:16 |
splosion | I managed to sort-of do it using fuse | Jun 15 18:16 |
DaemonMDV | there's a hack to get it to do MSC mode | Jun 15 18:16 |
DaemonMDV | but I don't know that it would be worth it | Jun 15 18:17 |
DaemonMDV | should I? | Jun 15 18:17 |
splosion | Install mtpfs first, see if that helps | Jun 15 18:17 |
DaemonMDV | installing | Jun 15 18:18 |
DaemonMDV | done | Jun 15 18:18 |
DaemonMDV | now what? | Jun 15 18:18 |
DaemonMDV | unplug it/plug it in? | Jun 15 18:18 |
splosion | yeah | Jun 15 18:18 |
splosion | you might get lucky! | Jun 15 18:18 |
DaemonMDV | nope | Jun 15 18:19 |
DaemonMDV | it did manage to crash Banshee though | Jun 15 18:20 |
*DaemonMDV claps | Jun 15 18:20 | |
DaemonMDV | hehe | Jun 15 18:20 |
splosion | nasty | Jun 15 18:20 |
splosion | You'll need to fuser it. But I can't remember what the hell I did to get it to work | Jun 15 18:20 |
splosion | man fuser. good luck | Jun 15 18:21 |
*DaemonMDV has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 15 18:21 | |
splosion | it killed it his irc client too | Jun 15 18:21 |
*neonfloss (n=neon@66.212.183.50) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 18:24 | |
*tacone (n=Adium@151.80.137.236) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 18:26 | |
*DaemonMDV (n=none@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 18:31 | |
DaemonMDV | trying to upgrade the firmware with my XP system | Jun 15 18:31 |
DaemonMDV | it recognizes it | Jun 15 18:31 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 18:31 |
splosion | sucks to be you | Jun 15 18:32 |
DaemonMDV | I'll put it in MSC mode if I can't figure this out | Jun 15 18:33 |
splosion | blame microsoft for making a shitty media protocol (presumably only to ensure that Zunes won't work on Macs, but, what are Mac users going to do? ditch their Macs or buy an iPod?) | Jun 15 18:33 |
DaemonMDV | well, ever since I install mtpfs, nothing can see it and it crashes banshee | Jun 15 18:36 |
DaemonMDV | even after I removed it | Jun 15 18:36 |
MinceR | who cares? they're screwed either way | Jun 15 18:36 |
DaemonMDV | so mtpfs fucked something up | Jun 15 18:37 |
splosion | hrmm, that's odd | Jun 15 18:37 |
DaemonMDV | Rhythmbox can still see it | Jun 15 18:37 |
DaemonMDV | maybe if I delete Banshee's config folder? | Jun 15 18:37 |
splosion | <DaemonMDV> maybe if I delete Banshee | Jun 15 18:38 |
splosion | fixt | Jun 15 18:38 |
splosion | but srsly, that might help | Jun 15 18:38 |
balzac | The banshee has mono | Jun 15 18:39 |
DaemonMDV | so? | Jun 15 18:39 |
balzac | right, you already have mono and microsoft | Jun 15 18:40 |
splosion | here we go again | Jun 15 18:40 |
balzac | GNU Rules! | Jun 15 18:40 |
DaemonMDV | ahhh | Jun 15 18:40 |
DaemonMDV | that worked | Jun 15 18:40 |
DaemonMDV | Banshee sees it again | Jun 15 18:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Can anybody recommend me an email client (GUI) that can handle large imap email boxes (150k msg) with low mem footprint for gnome? !linux | Jun 15 18:40 | |
schestowitz | === | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | Security experts have discovered two novel forms of Mac OS X malware. | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | OSX/Tored-A - an updated version of the Mac OS Tored worm - and a | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | Trojan called OSX/Jahlav-C were both found on popular pornographic | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | websites. | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | Users logging on to these sites are asked to download a "missing Video | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | ActiveX Object" but are sent a virus payload instead. | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8096822.stm | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | - unquote - | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | 'Experts say', What a load of bollix, you have to go to a porn site | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | and download and install an ' ActiveX Object' in order to catch this | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | malware. | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | == | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | A | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | ActiveX? | Jun 15 18:42 |
balzac | More than anything else, I think many Microsoft users would benefit from a good cry. | Jun 15 18:42 |
splosion | there's a bunch of apps that should be able to read the device | Jun 15 18:42 |
schestowitz | Whose flaw is it anyway? | Jun 15 18:42 |
trmanco | http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/06/open-video-codecs-and-quality/ | Jun 15 18:42 |
DaemonMDV | swchestowitz: It's cause Apple never updates their JAVA | Jun 15 18:42 |
DaemonMDV | those issues were been fixed back in December | Jun 15 18:42 |
DaemonMDV | for Windows and Linux and FreeBSD | Jun 15 18:42 |
DaemonMDV | but Apple still hasn't fixed them | Jun 15 18:42 |
DaemonMDV | serves them right | Jun 15 18:43 |
balzac | well, that's what happens when you don't keep the buffet fresh and the sneeze-guard in place | Jun 15 18:44 |
DaemonMDV | exactly | Jun 15 18:44 |
DaemonMDV | Sun Java nad Iced Tea users are quite safe | Jun 15 18:44 |
DaemonMDV | *and | Jun 15 18:44 |
DaemonMDV | from this particular problem at least | Jun 15 18:44 |
DaemonMDV | Mac OS is wide open | Jun 15 18:44 |
balzac | But if Mac OS has security problems... | Jun 15 18:45 |
DaemonMDV | it doesn't | Jun 15 18:45 |
balzac | MS Windows is more wide open than a whore on sunday! | Jun 15 18:45 |
DaemonMDV | read Apple's propaganda | Jun 15 18:46 |
balzac | heheh | Jun 15 18:46 |
DaemonMDV | it's stright from God's lips to your ears | Jun 15 18:46 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 18:46 |
DaemonMDV | yeah, but even Windows users are safe from this one | Jun 15 18:46 |
DaemonMDV | and Mac OS is not | Jun 15 18:46 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 18:46 |
balzac | wow, windows users are safe from a Mac vulnerability. | Jun 15 18:46 |
DaemonMDV | it's not a Mac vulnerability | Jun 15 18:47 |
DaemonMDV | it's a Java vulnerability | Jun 15 18:47 |
balzac | who would have thought a hack would be platform specific with two platforms so different? | Jun 15 18:47 |
balzac | oh | Jun 15 18:47 |
DaemonMDV | it's not platform specific | Jun 15 18:47 |
DaemonMDV | the same issue exists in normal Java from before December 2008 | Jun 15 18:47 |
DaemonMDV | else the exploit works on Linux and Windows too | Jun 15 18:47 |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 18:48 |
balzac | well, windows users are naked, but luckily their java beans are covered | Jun 15 18:48 |
DaemonMDV | the issue that is at hand is that Apple forked Java to use as part of their system | Jun 15 18:48 |
balzac | meanwhile mac is mostly secure, but they've left their java beans hanging in the breeze | Jun 15 18:48 |
DaemonMDV | and never patched over those bugs | Jun 15 18:48 |
DaemonMDV | like Sun did | Jun 15 18:48 |
balzac | that's lame | Jun 15 18:49 |
balzac | so i wonder if virus and worm makers get paid | Jun 15 18:49 |
balzac | other than via spam revenue | Jun 15 18:49 |
balzac | like paid by commission for a project | Jun 15 18:50 |
balzac | from Ballmer's malware slush fund | Jun 15 18:50 |
DaemonMDV | Banshee cna't play files I added with Rhythmbox? | Jun 15 18:52 |
DaemonMDV | what the hell? | Jun 15 18:53 |
balzac | what do you mean "added"? | Jun 15 18:53 |
DaemonMDV | transferred to the device | Jun 15 18:53 |
balzac | what device? | Jun 15 18:53 |
balzac | use a file manager. most music players just make references to files in a playlist | Jun 15 18:54 |
DaemonMDV | hold on | Jun 15 18:55 |
DaemonMDV | taking screenshots | Jun 15 18:55 |
balzac | it's too early for me to look at vista beta screenshots | Jun 15 18:55 |
DaemonMDV | can't use Nautilus | Jun 15 18:55 |
DaemonMDV | Linux apparently doesn't understand MTP | Jun 15 18:55 |
balzac | what OS is this? | Jun 15 18:55 |
DaemonMDV | so Banshee and Rhythmbox have to use LibMTP to transfer | Jun 15 18:55 |
DaemonMDV | Rhythmbox appears to handle the device better than Banshee | Jun 15 18:56 |
DaemonMDV | Banshee sometimes sees it, sometimes not | Jun 15 18:56 |
DaemonMDV | usually crashes | Jun 15 18:56 |
*_Mutex_ has quit ("IceChat - Its what Cool People use") | Jun 15 18:57 | |
Balrog | DaemonMDV: what player? | Jun 15 18:58 |
DaemonMDV | Sandisk Sansa View | Jun 15 18:59 |
DaemonMDV | Banshee Group has a PPA but that's for Ubuntu | Jun 15 19:01 |
DaemonMDV | otherwise I'd have to build Banshee 1.5 myself | Jun 15 19:01 |
tacone | banshee crashes very often | Jun 15 19:05 |
DaemonMDV | I'm requesting that Banshee 1.5 be built for Mandriva backports | Jun 15 19:06 |
neighborlee | yes I see that ;) | Jun 15 19:07 |
DaemonMDV | I'll just use Rhythmbox | Jun 15 19:11 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 19:11 |
DaemonMDV | it seems to work fine | Jun 15 19:11 |
DaemonMDV | til they get that Banshee mess sorted out | Jun 15 19:11 |
neighborlee | less bloat, less memory usage..you be the judge ;) | Jun 15 19:12 |
neighborlee | oh and no patents hmm thast a goodie too | Jun 15 19:12 |
neighborlee | oh said that just as sun came out ;)) | Jun 15 19:12 |
DaemonMDV | whoa | Jun 15 19:13 |
DaemonMDV | the new firmware lets you use MSC | Jun 15 19:13 |
DaemonMDV | sweet | Jun 15 19:13 |
DaemonMDV | HAH!!! | Jun 15 19:13 |
DaemonMDV | now I can browse it in Nautilus | Jun 15 19:14 |
DaemonMDV | w00t! | Jun 15 19:14 |
DaemonMDV | I win | Jun 15 19:14 |
splosion | http://www.w3b.org/technik/browserwatch-firefox-enttrohnt-microsofts-internet-explorer.html | Jun 15 19:14 |
splosion | Firefox overtakes IE | Jun 15 19:14 |
DaemonMDV | now I should format it | Jun 15 19:14 |
DaemonMDV | files added in MTP mode can't be viewed by the computer when you're in MSC mode | Jun 15 19:15 |
splosion | or rather, it will do by the end of 2009 if the current four-year trend continues | Jun 15 19:16 |
neighborlee | splosion, nice | Jun 15 19:16 |
DaemonMDV | so now I don't need reverse engineered Microsoft anything | Jun 15 19:17 |
DaemonMDV | it's jsut drag and drop from inside Nautilus | Jun 15 19:17 |
splosion | 42.9% (firefox 3x) vs 49.7% IE (IE 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8) | Jun 15 19:18 |
neighborlee | I cant stand nautilus | Jun 15 19:18 |
neighborlee | one of the nastiest things to grace linuxland | Jun 15 19:18 |
splosion | thunar ftw | Jun 15 19:18 |
neighborlee | yup | Jun 15 19:18 |
splosion | :) | Jun 15 19:18 |
neighborlee | I even like gentoo FM | Jun 15 19:19 |
neighborlee | or heck MC LOL | Jun 15 19:19 |
neighborlee | :) | Jun 15 19:19 |
neighborlee | reminds me of directoryOPUS :) | Jun 15 19:19 |
neighborlee | gentoo fm that is | Jun 15 19:19 |
*DaemonMDV likes Nautilus | Jun 15 19:19 | |
*DaemonMDV starts singing "Ohhhh, who lives in a pineapple under the sea?" | Jun 15 19:20 | |
DaemonMDV | :) | Jun 15 19:20 |
*DaemonMDV as he syncs his Sansa | Jun 15 19:20 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @firefox: Firefox nearly overtakes Internet Explorer in Germany http://bit.ly/xprbZ (via @fwenzel) | Jun 15 19:20 | |
DaemonMDV | http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/7562/screenshotx.png | Jun 15 19:21 |
DaemonMDV | in MSC mode it becomes just another USB memory stick | Jun 15 19:21 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 19:21 |
DaemonMDV | the Expansion part is the Micro SDHC card I plugged into it | Jun 15 19:21 |
DaemonMDV | it came with a bunch of sample music I couldn't seem to display in Nautilus or any of my players in either mode | Jun 15 19:23 |
DaemonMDV | formatting the device got rid of them though | Jun 15 19:23 |
DaemonMDV | the less reverse engineered Microsoft stuff I have to depend on within Linux is probably for the better anyway | Jun 15 19:24 |
DaemonMDV | so it's a good thing they officially support setting ti to MSC mode | Jun 15 19:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Gives ‘Funny Money’ (Microsoft Vouchers) to Wisconsin Schools After Committing Crimes < http://ping.fm/zcfdB > | Jun 15 19:30 | |
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 15 19:33 | |
schestowitz | Nokia boycott... "MUTINY HAS BROKEN OUT among retailers in China who are boycotting Nokia's phones in protest over fines the world's largest mobile maker has slapped on them for selling outside their assigned territories." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1271204/nokia-dealer-rebellion | Jun 15 19:35 |
schestowitz | Tom-Tom denies joining the Apple cult < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1271656/tom-tom-denies-joining-apple-cult > | Jun 15 19:36 |
schestowitz | "Luis Dominguez says he used the character to begin an online relationship with 40-year-old Antonio, the son of ex-leader Mr Castro." http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/world/americas/8099925.stm | Jun 15 19:37 |
*maxstirner1 (n=user@xdsl-87-79-129-220.netcologne.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 19:37 | |
DaemonMDV | schestowitz: Mandriva is in negotiations with some company called Saptech apparently | Jun 15 19:39 |
DaemonMDV | to ship a Mandriva netbook with LXDE as its desktop | Jun 15 19:39 |
schestowitz | Cool!! | Jun 15 19:39 |
schestowitz | URL? | Jun 15 19:39 |
DaemonMDV | don't have one, heard it in #mandriva | Jun 15 19:40 |
schestowitz | SylviaG shipped with Mandriva | Jun 15 19:40 |
schestowitz | * saptech (n=saptech@adsl-69-151-11-19.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net) has joined #mandriva | Jun 15 19:40 |
DaemonMDV | I've tried LXDE, makes a great desktop for the resource usage | Jun 15 19:40 |
DaemonMDV | better than XFCE | Jun 15 19:40 |
schestowitz | <saptech> not at the moment. But i've just installed mdv-09 on my acer aspire one netbook | Jun 15 19:41 |
DaemonMDV | distros are turning XVFE into a "Clone of your GNOME" | Jun 15 19:41 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 19:41 |
DaemonMDV | *XFCE | Jun 15 19:41 |
schestowitz | <Saptech> mdv is working great out the box | Jun 15 19:41 |
schestowitz | <Saptech> well at the moment i'm using winxp | Jun 15 19:41 |
DaemonMDV | crap | Jun 15 19:41 |
DaemonMDV | did I just tune in at the wrong moment? | Jun 15 19:42 |
*DaemonMDV smacks himself | Jun 15 19:42 | |
schestowitz | <DaemonMDV> Acer is fairly hostile regarding Linux | Jun 15 19:42 |
DaemonMDV | they are | Jun 15 19:42 |
DaemonMDV | they're also just generally hostile to customers though | Jun 15 19:43 |
schestowitz | * Saptech has quit (Success) | Jun 15 19:43 |
schestowitz | You drive him away | Jun 15 19:43 |
DaemonMDV | the "sorry, your warranty expired 5 seconds ago" type of support | Jun 15 19:43 |
DaemonMDV | "Buy an extension for $100?" | Jun 15 19:43 |
DaemonMDV | Gateway will at least help you with stuff if your warranty expires | Jun 15 19:44 |
DaemonMDV | Acer makes you buy an extension jsut to ask a question | Jun 15 19:44 |
DaemonMDV | I know Acer is Gateway's parent company but they seem to have two different tech support policies | Jun 15 19:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Fear of Microsoft Bob Hope grips Google http://bit.ly/3eUB7J | Jun 15 19:45 | |
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.78.214) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 19:47 | |
_Hicham_ | interesting : http://live.gnome.org/ScratchPad/DotNetAndMono | Jun 15 19:47 |
trmanco | using claws email | Jun 15 19:48 |
DaemonMDV | http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/10/23/review-sansa-view-16gb/ | Jun 15 19:48 |
DaemonMDV | that's the player I have | Jun 15 19:48 |
trmanco | I think I finally found a decent low mem email client | Jun 15 19:48 |
DaemonMDV | only 8 gigs on the device, but I popped in a 16 gigs expansion | Jun 15 19:48 |
DaemonMDV | should probably hold enough MP3s for me :) | Jun 15 19:49 |
_Hicham_ | does it support ogg? | Jun 15 19:49 |
DaemonMDV | nope | Jun 15 19:49 |
DaemonMDV | WMA, MP3, MP4, Audible | Jun 15 19:49 |
schestowitz | Support Accountability and Transparency in Government! http://action.citizen.org/t/6693/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26515 | Jun 15 19:49 |
schestowitz | Card fraud probe targets 300 detectives http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/14/expenses-fraud-detectives-scotland-yard | Jun 15 19:49 |
DaemonMDV | Linux seems to have far better support for encoding MP3 | Jun 15 19:49 |
DaemonMDV | so I'll probably just use that | Jun 15 19:50 |
DaemonMDV | FAAC is just horrendously bad when you go to play the file back with a decoder that expects the file to be strictly ISO compliant | Jun 15 19:50 |
DaemonMDV | so you might as well forget encoding MP4 with Linux | Jun 15 19:51 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonMDV : did u try reading an ogg files on it? | Jun 15 19:51 |
DaemonMDV | every review says it doesn't work | Jun 15 19:51 |
_Hicham_ | coz a lot of players do without having it on the stickers | Jun 15 19:51 |
DaemonMDV | I don't know why my experience would be different | Jun 15 19:51 |
_Hicham_ | just try | Jun 15 19:51 |
_Hicham_ | firmwares change | Jun 15 19:51 |
DaemonMDV | I've read a few where the... | Jun 15 19:51 |
DaemonMDV | oh alright | Jun 15 19:51 |
*DaemonMDV goes to transcode something | Jun 15 19:51 | |
splosion | http://www.h-online.com/open/Open-source-vs-Microsoft-further-progress-in-Switzerland--/news/113534 | Jun 15 19:54 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is the new Sherlock Holmes of the century | Jun 15 19:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] nuclear disarmament treaties are important. Will the US make a start? "North Korea < http://ping.fm/9hvDd > | Jun 15 19:55 | |
splosion | _Hicham_: huh? | Jun 15 19:56 |
DaemonMDV | hmmm | Jun 15 19:56 |
_Hicham_ | splosion : never mind | Jun 15 19:56 |
DaemonMDV | it's not playing anything I dropped into its music folder | Jun 15 19:56 |
*macabe (n=macabe@cpe-67-240-216-105.rochester.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 19:57 | |
_Hicham_ | DaemonMDV : neither ogg or oga? | Jun 15 19:57 |
splosion | can your model not get the rockbox firmware, DaemonMDV ? | Jun 15 19:57 |
DaemonMDV | wait | Jun 15 19:57 |
DaemonMDV | they can't be in subfolders | Jun 15 19:58 |
DaemonMDV | the mp3s have to be dropped straight into the MUSIC folder | Jun 15 19:58 |
_Hicham_ | no subfolders | Jun 15 19:58 |
_Hicham_ | it is a general rule for all players | Jun 15 19:58 |
_Hicham_ | u are not on Winamp | Jun 15 19:58 |
DaemonMDV | but then it moves them to the subfolder itself | Jun 15 19:59 |
DaemonMDV | and plays them | Jun 15 19:59 |
DaemonMDV | what the fuck? | Jun 15 19:59 |
DaemonMDV | and it simply deleted the Vorbis file | Jun 15 19:59 |
_Hicham_ | wow, strange firmware | Jun 15 20:00 |
splosion | malware protection for sure | Jun 15 20:00 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, mono disinformation in mandriva forums too : http://forum.mandriva.com/viewtopic.php?t=93002&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150 < first post on page | Jun 15 20:00 |
neighborlee | gotta go for now, bbl o_0 | Jun 15 20:00 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Still downloading email headers | Jun 15 20:00 | |
_Hicham_ | I heard that some players can play ogg if u rename the extension to wma | Jun 15 20:00 |
neighborlee | _Hicham_, its nice that FF 3.5 in fedora11> has this out of box dont know about other distros atm..out of box players too.. | Jun 15 20:01 |
splosion | Mpeg-LA's fact sheet says, "Get the facts. ogg.vorbis32 is a virus that can destroy your player's firmware and data. To protect you, we automatically delete these files for you." | Jun 15 20:01 |
neighborlee | ok really GONE now | Jun 15 20:01 |
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DaemonMDV | it also seems to not understand id3vs tags written by Easytag | Jun 15 20:04 |
DaemonMDV | *id3v2 | Jun 15 20:05 |
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DaemonMDV | lets switch it back to MTP and see what happens | Jun 15 20:07 |
DaemonMDV | I have a feeling it's doing something naughty with files I add in MSC mode | Jun 15 20:09 |
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schestowitz | Look what comments in BN did... http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-13-008-35-OS-CY | Jun 15 20:14 |
DaemonMDV | maybe if I put an M3U in the folder it could parse that? | Jun 15 20:16 |
splosion | schestowitz: I see Jo posts examples of the death threats you promote and encourage amongst your readers :P | Jun 15 20:17 |
DaemonMDV | hmm, if I use MTP mode, it even throws in the cover art | Jun 15 20:17 |
amd-linux | I would moderate such posts away as they are an obvious try to sabotage a valid discussion | Jun 15 20:18 |
splosion | gets shot down for it quickly, though, I see | Jun 15 20:19 |
amd-linux | the comments is not okay, after all we are "only" discussiing software. This plays in the hands of those who want to riducule BN et al. | Jun 15 20:19 |
amd-linux | no, I mean the original comments here on BN | Jun 15 20:19 |
splosion | amd-linux: but why? Full-disclosure is important. Jo's just making a mountain out of a mole hill and it looks like people are smart enough to see that | Jun 15 20:20 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] OpenBSD Enters "I'm a Mac/PC" Ad Campaign War http://ping.fm/EXUZ2 | Jun 15 20:20 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oops. The link for that last item is this one: http://ping.fm/T563d and it's a satire. | Jun 15 20:20 | |
amd-linux | IMHO, it is not helpful to alow such comments. and they do ceetainly not represent people like me or other Mono opponents | Jun 15 20:20 |
schestowitz | splosion: wink noted. We just never delete comments | Jun 15 20:20 |
splosion | I mean, if we want people to be more open, we have to be open ourselves | Jun 15 20:21 |
schestowitz | Hatred of censorship is costing us, assuming people are gullible enough to think any comments from any troll is "us" | Jun 15 20:21 |
schestowitz | amd-linux: yes, it's a problem | Jun 15 20:22 |
schestowitz | They use it for smears | Jun 15 20:22 |
splosion | wikileaks didn't back down when a troll submitted a document containing the email addresses of a bunch of sponsors. be bold! | Jun 15 20:22 |
schestowitz | And there is that liar "fink" we pretends I spoke to him | Jun 15 20:22 |
schestowitz | Crazy trolls carry the site's name and harass people | Jun 15 20:22 |
balzac | And that guy jo shields | Jun 15 20:22 |
amd-linux | twell, some people think if somebody allows such comments, they are endorsed. I do not think so, but some people might do | Jun 15 20:22 |
balzac | who says "f*ck you" | Jun 15 20:23 |
schestowitz | amd-linux: it's a tradeoff | Jun 15 20:23 |
schestowitz | Censorship too would be used againat us | Jun 15 20:23 |
balzac | then gets to post on one of the major Linux sites | Jun 15 20:23 |
schestowitz | I use it against Groklaw sometimes | Jun 15 20:23 |
schestowitz | Groklaw even deleted comments from 'trolls' like Linus Otrvalds | Jun 15 20:23 |
amd-linux | well, I do not plead for censorship, but a red line could be drawn when threats are involved | Jun 15 20:24 |
schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Jun 15 20:24 |
schestowitz | Like against me | Jun 15 20:24 |
balzac | or me | Jun 15 20:24 |
schestowitz | You? | Jun 15 20:24 |
balzac | well, sort of | Jun 15 20:25 |
balzac | Trojan-something from linsux.org | Jun 15 20:25 |
MinceR | then we might as well get rid of the trolls who pollute the channel and inhibit meaningful discussion | Jun 15 20:25 |
splosion | balzac: bad language is just that. not really a problem. It's just rather crude most of the time. (although sometimes it's fucking awesome.) A real problem is spreading lies. that's more the issue I think | Jun 15 20:25 |
balzac | it was close enough | Jun 15 20:25 |
balzac | yeah | Jun 15 20:25 |
balzac | like jo shields | Jun 15 20:25 |
balzac | lies, not threats in his case | Jun 15 20:25 |
amd-linux | what I dont get is why Mono can not go to Ubuntu Universe. That would satisfy opponents as well as proponents, no? | Jun 15 20:26 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: it's tracy_anne | Jun 15 20:26 |
schestowitz | She hates me | Jun 15 20:26 |
splosion | MinceR: "/ignore splosion" -- problem solved :) | Jun 15 20:26 |
schestowitz | And she likes Mono | Jun 15 20:26 |
schestowitz | So no news there | Jun 15 20:26 |
schestowitz | She's from LXer | Jun 15 20:26 |
schestowitz | One of my haters | Jun 15 20:26 |
MinceR | splosion: ignore makes conversations impossible to follow | Jun 15 20:26 |
MinceR | splosion: if someone says something, i can no longer tell if it's a response to something | Jun 15 20:27 |
splosion | good point | Jun 15 20:27 |
MinceR | i've seen someone make a complete fool out of themselves because they've ignored half the channel -- elsewhere | Jun 15 20:28 |
MinceR | though they've actually made a complete fool out of themselves long before | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | === | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | "Hmm. Is that good or bad. The volcano comment is not mine. I notice | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | that Jo Shields likes to take the other comment out of context and tries | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | to ignore that serious harm is coming from MS. Harm that would be dealt | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | with by the government. | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | There's a world of difference between Jo Shields' insinuation of a lynch | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | mob and the reality of calling for government intervention against | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | willful negligence and / or criminal mischief. | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | C'mon who does Redmond Jo thing he's fooling? He seems to be saying | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | it's A-OK to replace reliable, smoothly running, mission critical | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | systems with ones that fail to do the job, while knowing in advance that | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | it fails to do the job. He's seems to be further saying it's fine even | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | in cases where it harms the economy, costs people their livelihood, | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | their health or their lives. -- or puts any of the above at risk." | Jun 15 20:28 |
schestowitz | "I notice that "not nice" is MS code for knowing about technology." | Jun 15 20:28 |
splosion | you've got a list of haters as long as my leg, roy! I think that's worthy of something though :P | Jun 15 20:29 |
mtnd3w | What is the scope of Mono in GNU/Linux. So far it's on the Gnome DE and making it's way into other projects as well? | Jun 15 20:32 |
schestowitz | "Windows enthusiasts launch 'Boycott Opera' campaign - http://bit.ly/1bj1XA yeah, everybody gang up on the class weakling, that's mature" http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/2178554232 | Jun 15 20:34 |
splosion | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/06/canonical-to-boost-ubuntu-usability-by-tackling-papercuts.ars mtnd3w the guy who wrote gnome-do is part of Ubuntu's super awesome design team now, so there may be many more mono things coming to an Ubuntu near you soon | Jun 15 20:35 |
_Hicham_ | I am trying to install Windows XP in Fedora using qemu and Virtual Machine Manager, DaemonMDV, any clues? | Jun 15 20:36 |
_Hicham_ | XP can't continue the installation | Jun 15 20:36 |
DaemonMDV | *shrugs* | Jun 15 20:36 |
DaemonMDV | works fine in Virtual Box | Jun 15 20:36 |
splosion | Boycott Opera. Hahaha | Jun 15 20:36 |
schestowitz | http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2009/06/14/The-4-Hour-Workweek "Well then, you’ll probably really love The 4-Hour Workweek, a 2007 book by Timothy Ferriss. On the other hand, if you love your job and wish you could do more of it, there’s not much here for you but a few handy email-management hints." | Jun 15 20:37 |
*DaemonMDV has Windows XP under Parallels | Jun 15 20:37 | |
_Hicham_ | DaemonMDV : have u tried it with qemu? | Jun 15 20:37 |
DaemonMDV | it can run games seamlessly in Linux | Jun 15 20:37 |
DaemonMDV | using Windows XP as a subsystem | Jun 15 20:37 |
DaemonMDV | :D | Jun 15 20:37 |
*schestowitz has qemu | Jun 15 20:37 | |
schestowitz | In Mand | Jun 15 20:37 |
_Hicham_ | VirtualBox? | Jun 15 20:37 |
DaemonMDV | VirtualBox is the best you'll do for free | Jun 15 20:38 |
schestowitz | Doesn't work well for running some distros BTW | Jun 15 20:38 |
DaemonMDV | Parallels is not freeware | Jun 15 20:38 |
DaemonMDV | but damn if it doesn't work well | Jun 15 20:38 |
DaemonMDV | games run at nearly the speed they do in XP natively | Jun 15 20:38 |
DaemonMDV | most of the time anyway | Jun 15 20:38 |
_Hicham_ | in VirtualBox? | Jun 15 20:38 |
splosion | Boycott Opera means Microsoft Windows still has actual fans and not just haters-of-alternative-distros | Jun 15 20:38 |
DaemonMDV | no, in Parallels | Jun 15 20:39 |
DaemonMDV | VirtualBox is next to useless for games | Jun 15 20:39 |
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DaemonMDV | Parallels does much better for performance | Jun 15 20:39 |
balzac | yeah, but it's nice for running operating systems | Jun 15 20:39 |
DaemonMDV | well, Parallels gives your Linux system a Windows subsystem, effectively | Jun 15 20:40 |
DaemonMDV | that can be invoked when all else fails | Jun 15 20:40 |
balzac | I'll pass on the proprietary software | Jun 15 20:40 |
DaemonMDV | :D | Jun 15 20:40 |
DaemonMDV | oh come now | Jun 15 20:40 |
schestowitz | wb, Carl_Rover2k12 | Jun 15 20:40 |
balzac | DaemonMDV: please don't recommend it because I don't want to waste time on it | Jun 15 20:40 |
DaemonMDV | you haven't lived til you've tried IE 8 in Mandriva | Jun 15 20:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Crimes against Netscape did not endure the test of time. http://ping.fm/OpVhQ | Jun 15 20:40 | |
balzac | feature comparison between free and proprietary apps is ok with me | Jun 15 20:40 |
MinceR | time for opera users to launch a Boycott micro$oft campaign. | Jun 15 20:40 |
schestowitz | That exists even without Opera | Jun 15 20:41 |
schestowitz | There are several such sites | Jun 15 20:41 |
schestowitz | Not active though | Jun 15 20:41 |
balzac | but let me know if it's proprietary so I don't waste time looking it up | Jun 15 20:41 |
MinceR | well, time to activate opera users | Jun 15 20:41 |
schestowitz | http://why.openoffice.org/why_great.html | Jun 15 20:41 |
schestowitz | Iraq war inquiry to be in private http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8100432.stm | Jun 15 20:41 |
maxstirner1 | funny that isnt it | Jun 15 20:42 |
maxstirner1 | theyd probably have to reveal the "secret advice" if it werent held in secret | Jun 15 20:42 |
maxstirner1 | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7752009.stm | Jun 15 20:42 |
schestowitz | Swine Flu Science: First Wiki, Then Publish < http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/loom/2009/06/11/swine-flu-science-first-wiki-then-publish/ > | Jun 15 20:42 |
maxstirner1 | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4381379.stm | Jun 15 20:42 |
schestowitz | maxstirner1: maybe they are embarrassed, you thinkg? " | Jun 15 20:43 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: umm, home? | Jun 15 20:43 |
schestowitz | Hadopi a walking zombie http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F4Nq2h&sl=auto&tl=en&history_state0= Frankreich: Netzsperren trotz Verfassungskonflikt France: Power Locks, despite constitutional conflict | Jun 15 20:43 |
maxstirner1 | schestowitz: i think certain bits just arent for the public, unless its decades later | Jun 15 20:44 |
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maxstirner1 | the outrage would just be too great | Jun 15 20:44 |
balzac | DaemonMDV: not to be prickly, but I just don't care to hear people sing the praises of proprietary apps on freenode, especially here, without being given the context that it's a proprietary app | Jun 15 20:44 |
maxstirner1 | theres a lot of outrageous stuff in here http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/ | Jun 15 20:44 |
maxstirner1 | but it all happened a long time ago so.. | Jun 15 20:44 |
maxstirner1 | this is my favourite: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/elvis/elnix.html | Jun 15 20:44 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: can you believe there are still people who regard Wikipedia with suspicion? | Jun 15 20:45 |
schestowitz | StumbleUpon Jumps on the URL-Shortener Bandwagon http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/09/stumbleupon-jumps-on-the-url-shortener-bandwagon | Jun 15 20:45 |
schestowitz | The new fad... Twitter and silly shortners | Jun 15 20:45 |
schestowitz | [sorry, trmanco ] | Jun 15 20:45 |
trmanco | ? | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | *shorteners | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | Links lose their existence | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | I hare link shortening | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | It's a two-level fault system | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | Shortener dies, say goodbye to links | Jun 15 20:46 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | lol top hit on Google for "silly shortners" http://www.inquisitr.com/22264/url-shorteners-the-herpes-of-the-web/ | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | Very stupid and short-sighed idea | Jun 15 20:46 |
schestowitz | I avoid tinyURL unless I can put the full URL too | Jun 15 20:47 |
schestowitz | Full URL is good for many reasons | Jun 15 20:47 |
schestowitz | Post titles | Jun 15 20:47 |
schestowitz | Make it easier to search | Jun 15 20:47 |
schestowitz | And also Web archive | Jun 15 20:47 |
schestowitz | tinyurl is dead link easily.. | Jun 15 20:47 |
splosion | I think twitter should make an allowance for URLs. | Jun 15 20:47 |
splosion | problem solved | Jun 15 20:47 |
schestowitz | timbl must be flipping in his -grave- bed thinking about shorteners | Jun 15 20:48 |
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 15 20:48 | |
schestowitz | How long before the shortener for the shortener? | Jun 15 20:48 |
DaemonMDV | that's funny | Jun 15 20:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: do you think shorteners will do away with domains? | Jun 15 20:49 |
splosion | I prefer this http://hugeurl.com/ | Jun 15 20:49 |
DaemonMDV | the player won't say "Sorry I can't play Vorbis" | Jun 15 20:49 |
_Hicham_ | it is working now | Jun 15 20:49 |
DaemonMDV | it just deletes the files | Jun 15 20:49 |
schestowitz | Rebuilding the railway http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/economics/rebuilding-the-railway | Jun 15 20:49 |
_Hicham_ | Windows is loading | Jun 15 20:49 |
DaemonMDV | and moves on to MP3s or WMAs | Jun 15 20:49 |
_Hicham_ | had to choose generic os | Jun 15 20:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: how can the government rebuild a Private system without hostile takeovers? | Jun 15 20:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: most rails in the US are operated by very profitable freight carriers | Jun 15 20:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] What makes Microsoft's "bizniz®" unethical?: http://digg.com/d1ttdv?t | Jun 15 20:50 | |
DaemonMDV | why exactly does it need to delete the file? | Jun 15 20:50 |
schestowitz | ORLY says Linux can replace Windows completely: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10264471-16.html | Jun 15 20:50 |
schestowitz | It's the fact that it's ORLY which makes it something | Jun 15 20:51 |
schestowitz | Cause ORLY doesn't care about Linux and Freedom | Jun 15 20:51 |
schestowitz | he's an Apple fan and SaaS | Jun 15 20:51 |
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_Hicham_ | DaemonMDV : to prevent possible damage | Jun 15 20:53 |
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Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: do you know how to get Freenode to identify your username? | Jun 15 21:02 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: nvm, can you fill me in on O'Reilly's article because from what I can tell he is just messing with semantics by talking about "open data" as apposed to open code | Jun 15 21:07 |
splosion | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090615/1148005239.shtml Hulu are anti-American. woot | Jun 15 21:10 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | splosion: talk about biting their hand to spite their face, Hulu is a creation of NBC | Jun 15 21:11 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | and is hosted and administrated by Akamai | Jun 15 21:12 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | splosion: sometimes I think the filters and bean counters can't distinguish between whats their own and who they are sent to anecdote to death | Jun 15 21:14 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | splosion: also a 45 minute show by Hulu has four or more 2 minute ads. Thats already more than 50% of the stream dominated by advertising | Jun 15 21:16 |
schestowitz | ZETA to open doors to 'net zero' home http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10262842-54.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 | Jun 15 21:17 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | splosion: well more like 15%, but that is still more then many other streamers out there | Jun 15 21:18 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: I registered my screen name like a year ago | Jun 15 21:19 |
schestowitz | Standard register procedure I cannot recall | Jun 15 21:19 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: did you do it commands on IRC or through a web site? | Jun 15 21:20 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I am looking to see if their website provides help to register via IRC | Jun 15 21:21 |
*mtnd3w (n=mtnd3w@cpe-74-65-216-135.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Jun 15 21:24 | |
*Carl_Rover2k12 is probably ruining his standing within this community | Jun 15 21:24 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz OTOH, the image of using Vista was as accurate as it was icky ... | Jun 15 21:25 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I would like to live in a partially underground home insulated with mud and concrete, that would be very efficient at keeping warmth or coolness in | Jun 15 21:25 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I think cave people from the stone age were the greenest of civilizations | Jun 15 21:26 |
neighborlee | schestowitz, ah ok <mandriva forum> ..I'd not been watching those forums so I sorta surprised me I guess.. its nice to see mono not being swallowed hook line and sinker at least from users comments..- < just got back> | Jun 15 21:26 |
schestowitz | Blu-Ray Barely Making A Dent In Video Sales Slump http://www.paidcontent.co.uk/entry/419-blu-ray-barely-making-a-dent-in-video-sales-slump/ | Jun 15 21:27 |
trmanco | When Zeal Becomes Zealotry: A Tawdry Tale -> I see you have seen this | Jun 15 21:27 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: no, just IRC commands | Jun 15 21:27 |
schestowitz | IIRC | Jun 15 21:27 |
schestowitz | tacone: don't feed it | Jun 15 21:30 |
neighborlee | hmm id heard they were making inroads | Jun 15 21:30 |
schestowitz | * trmanco I mean | Jun 15 21:30 |
neighborlee | bluray | Jun 15 21:30 |
schestowitz | it's also wrong | Jun 15 21:30 |
trmanco | I won't | Jun 15 21:30 |
tacone | i don't feed even myself. | Jun 15 21:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: Vista is a powerful weapon. You send it to enemy territory, give it a few days, and see combatants self-destruct in anger. | Jun 15 21:30 | |
schestowitz | That troll was lying about having something to do with me | Jun 15 21:30 |
trmanco | I don't usually feed on anything | Jun 15 21:30 |
schestowitz | And the victim caught it and though it was true | Jun 15 21:30 |
schestowitz | Even though it was from a troll !! | Jun 15 21:31 |
trmanco | I'm more of a quiet person | Jun 15 21:31 |
schestowitz | tacone: you run on solar ? :-) | Jun 15 21:31 |
tacone | i steer away of all such unfree food and prefer to feed myself with just light. which is free. | Jun 15 21:31 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | BNc: eurika, the EU is the US's enemy. You helped explain everything | Jun 15 21:31 |
tacone | i see you guessed it :) | Jun 15 21:31 |
trmanco | lol | Jun 15 21:31 |
neighborlee | well its up triple from 2008 anyway.. | Jun 15 21:32 |
schestowitz | tacone: Must be tough in winter | Jun 15 21:32 |
neighborlee | http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=4f33f7ecd766f487b2217d6da6f9e1f1&t=86912&page=11 < at least according to here | Jun 15 21:32 |
tacone | yes it is. ethic is though. | Jun 15 21:32 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: BNc is an aggregator from Twitter | Jun 15 21:32 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: the "N" in Windows N is for Nuclear | Jun 15 21:33 |
schestowitz | Zune is the sound it makes | Jun 15 21:33 |
schestowitz | Apropos: CENTRALIZED OR DECENTRALIZED ENERGY? < http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2009/06/centralized-or-decentralized-energy.html > | Jun 15 21:34 |
schestowitz | Firefox.next peek: profiling yourself < http://mozillalinks.org/wp/2009/06/firefox-next-peek-profiling-yourself/ > | Jun 15 21:35 |
DaemonMDV | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee/+bug/267922 | Jun 15 21:35 |
DaemonMDV | heh | Jun 15 21:35 |
DaemonMDV | Banshee hangs up/crashes when pluggin in MTP-USB-Player | Jun 15 21:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tacone] i steer away of all such #unfree #food and prefer to feed myself with just #light. which is #free. | Jun 15 21:35 | |
tacone | banshee sucks much more than people want you to believe. | Jun 15 21:35 |
tacone | oh, wow. | Jun 15 21:36 |
*schestowitz adds links to queue | Jun 15 21:36 | |
DaemonMDV | Rhythmbox works with Microsoft's protocol flawlessly | Jun 15 21:36 |
DaemonMDV | and Banshee just dies | Jun 15 21:36 |
schestowitz | http://www.grep.be/blog/en/computer/mono_etc | Jun 15 21:36 |
DaemonMDV | that's odd considering Novell is so hot for Microsoft | Jun 15 21:36 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 21:36 |
neighborlee | DaemonMDV, hm | Jun 15 21:36 |
DaemonMDV | using Banshee 1.4.2 | Jun 15 21:36 |
DaemonMDV | each release in their changelog they say they've fixed scores of MTP-related bugs | Jun 15 21:37 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | DaemonMDV: maybe its because Novell is too busy focusing on Mono and other interloping with the OS itself | Jun 15 21:37 |
DaemonMDV | including the 1.5 beta | Jun 15 21:37 |
trmanco | http://www.grep.be/blog/en/computer/mono_etc | Jun 15 21:37 |
DaemonMDV | according to Wikipedia, most players are not strictly MTP compliant | Jun 15 21:37 |
DaemonMDV | most of them seem to have their own "dialect" of it | Jun 15 21:37 |
DaemonMDV | so Rhythmbox must have my player in it's list of hacks | Jun 15 21:38 |
DaemonMDV | and Banshee doesn't | Jun 15 21:38 |
trmanco | see the comments | Jun 15 21:38 |
trmanco | good stuff | Jun 15 21:38 |
DaemonMDV | "It's funny sometimes. When Sun developed Java, it was not free software. People never complained about that; at least not very much. Eventually Java was made free software, but the rights to the Java name and what it encompasses are still firmly held by Sun. Nobody whines about that (and rightly so). | Jun 15 21:39 |
DaemonMDV | With technology coming from Microsoft, however, everything in that regard is totally different. For no particularly good reason..." | Jun 15 21:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Who's gonna be killed by intellectual monopolies (aka patents) tomorrow? http://ping.fm/gNoHk | Jun 15 21:40 | |
DaemonMDV | oh well, as long as Rhythmbox can talk to it, I'll just use Rhythmbox | Jun 15 21:41 |
DaemonMDV | it's not a huge deal | Jun 15 21:41 |
schestowitz | '#CNNFail': Twitterverse slams network's Iran absence http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10264398-2.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 | Jun 15 21:42 |
neighborlee | trmanco, lol, for no particular reason ;)) | Jun 15 21:42 |
alanbell | DaemonMDV: there was no attempt that I am aware of to make Java a dependency of a free operating system | Jun 15 21:42 |
DaemonMDV | IcedTea | Jun 15 21:43 |
DaemonMDV | every distro is trying to integrate that | Jun 15 21:43 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: this is where IRC saved the day, because afterall it was IRC that covered the Soviet coup of 1991 and the subsequent fall of the USSR :D | Jun 15 21:43 |
DaemonMDV | nobody will write desktop apps in Java though because its performance totally blows | Jun 15 21:43 |
neighborlee | yes but what threats exist FROM sun? | Jun 15 21:43 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | saves, not saved | Jun 15 21:43 |
DaemonMDV | there's a few crazy oddballs out there | Jun 15 21:43 |
DaemonMDV | but it's the exception | Jun 15 21:43 |
MinceR | there are desktop apps written in java | Jun 15 21:43 |
MinceR | besides it didn't stop people from writing desktop apps in mono | Jun 15 21:44 |
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schestowitz | OOoLilyPond < http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/OOoLilyPond > | Jun 15 21:45 |
Omar87 | Hey guys you gotta check this out! Pirillo is talking about the Linux Desktop. | Jun 15 21:45 |
Omar87 | http://chris.pirillo.com/live/ | Jun 15 21:45 |
Omar87 | He's not talking right now, but he'll probably be talking soon. | Jun 15 21:46 |
alanbell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IcedTea | Jun 15 21:46 |
alanbell | java is only going in to distros because of it's renewed freeness | Jun 15 21:46 |
schestowitz | "Across the globe, as mining and oil firms race for dwindling resources, indigenous peoples are battling to defend their lands – often paying the ultimate price" http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/13/forests-environment-oil-companies | Jun 15 21:46 |
schestowitz | Omar87: we talk about Linux here.. _all the time_ :-) | Jun 15 21:47 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: "Keep your friends close, and you foes closer." | Jun 15 21:48 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: Plus, this might give us more stuff to talk about. | Jun 15 21:48 |
schestowitz | And some other important issues :-) "Poor farmers to guard Earth's crop riches" http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227125.100-poor-farmers-to-guard-earths-crop-riches.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news | Jun 15 21:48 |
schestowitz | Omar87: indeed | Jun 15 21:48 |
schestowitz | That's also what MS said | Jun 15 21:48 |
schestowitz | Because it wants to advance WIndows and .NET and stuff.. | Jun 15 21:49 |
schestowitz | Which is why I keep a little careful of that embrace | Jun 15 21:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: South American oil exploration has been going on for a long time and has been reported since the start of the Cold War. | Jun 15 21:49 |
schestowitz | "Killing with kindness" Brian proffitt called it | Jun 15 21:49 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: will there be much left? | Jun 15 21:49 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: Plus Plus, we can't deny the fact that Pirillo is an extremely famous creature. So.. listening to him might give us some valuable info about what's going on. | Jun 15 21:50 |
schestowitz | Less lumber, less oil, less oxygen, less ice | Jun 15 21:50 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: much left of what? | Jun 15 21:50 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: Exactly. | Jun 15 21:50 |
schestowitz | Omar87: agreed. I follow his stuff too | Jun 15 21:50 |
schestowitz | I was reading his blog regularly for a while | Jun 15 21:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The secret payload of Windows XP http://is.gd/12LpB | Jun 15 21:50 | |
Omar87 | schestowitz: Yup! | Jun 15 21:51 |
trmanco | I see you posted that <1MB gnote img | Jun 15 21:51 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: it all depends on how efficiently the petroleum is extracted. Oil companies have already had immense problems planting pipelines in the rain forests. Hopefully, with government cooperation rather than political intrigue they can figure out a way to do it that will impact the jungle environment the least. They haven't been able to complete many projects in the past due to constant political turmoil and sabotage but | Jun 15 21:52 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: I'm also following his FB and Twitter. | Jun 15 21:52 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: another issue is many South American city and suburban dwellers don't look favorable upon the tribal or indigenous folks of the jungle as well as Andes Mountains | Jun 15 21:54 |
schestowitz | Omar87: you're on Twitter? | Jun 15 21:54 |
schestowitz | We can add you to BNc | Jun 15 21:54 |
Omar87 | schestowitz: Yup! | Jun 15 21:54 |
schestowitz | Which account? | Jun 15 21:54 |
Omar87 | That would be great! :D | Jun 15 21:55 |
DaemonMDV | hmmm, FM tuner works alright | Jun 15 21:55 |
Omar87 | Omar_S_Hafez | Jun 15 21:55 |
DaemonMDV | lmao | Jun 15 21:55 |
DaemonMDV | played "Half the man I used to be" | Jun 15 21:55 |
DaemonMDV | DJ says "Must have been a bad circumcision" | Jun 15 21:55 |
splosion | bed! | Jun 15 21:55 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : Bob called. They want XP's talking dog back in the zoo by 5pm. | Jun 15 21:55 | |
DaemonMDV | not Rover Retreiver!!! | Jun 15 21:56 |
DaemonMDV | he's mah dog mah! | Jun 15 21:56 |
*DaemonMDV takes the shotgun off the shelf | Jun 15 21:56 | |
schestowitz | MySpace Might Close Offices In Europe And San Francisco http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-myspace-might-close-offices-in-europe-and-san-francisco/ | Jun 15 21:56 |
schestowitz | Someone here asked about myspace earlier | Jun 15 21:56 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: another post bubble dot com has fallen | Jun 15 21:56 |
alanbell | The keyboard I am using at the moment has a small Microsoft advert on it between the ctrl and alt keys | Jun 15 21:57 |
maxstirner1 | :D:D | Jun 15 21:57 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: passing feds | Jun 15 21:57 |
maxstirner1 | that IS funny | Jun 15 21:57 |
DaemonMDV | I'll miss Rover | Jun 15 21:57 |
schestowitz | IRC->ICQ->whatever->myspce ->FB/Digg/LinkedIn->Twitter... | Jun 15 21:57 |
DaemonMDV | :P | Jun 15 21:57 |
alanbell | I wonder how much selling the advertising space on that keycap subsidised the cost of the keyboard | Jun 15 21:57 |
DaemonMDV | he was always such a good dog :P | Jun 15 21:57 |
schestowitz | Naaa... | Jun 15 21:58 |
schestowitz | Pooped on the Windows | Jun 15 21:58 |
schestowitz | Omar87: when you Twit somehting it'll now appear in IRC too | Jun 15 21:59 |
Omar87 | Cool! :) | Jun 15 21:59 |
schestowitz | Anyone else in here using Twitter? | Jun 15 21:59 |
schestowitz | I need to figure out how to hack it for identica support too.... | Jun 15 21:59 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Palm Pre is shipping GPL incompliant http://ping.fm/Q1lYA | Jun 15 22:00 | |
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Carl_Rover2k12 | --BNc: its pretty much the Qualcom CDMA modem that is screwing them over | Jun 15 22:02 |
schestowitz | Oracle has said nada about mysql.. Sun does.. a little. New release model for MySQL http://www.h-online.com/open/New-release-model-for-MySQL--/news/113520 | Jun 15 22:02 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | CDMA drivers as far as I know have never been open source | Jun 15 22:02 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: will they comply? | Jun 15 22:02 |
schestowitz | TomTom needed to be brought to water to drink | Jun 15 22:02 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: who Palm or Qualcom? | Jun 15 22:02 |
schestowitz | Either one | Jun 15 22:02 |
schestowitz | They can pressure one another | Jun 15 22:03 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: Palm can't do much aside from pull their phones from Sprint, which would be suicide. Qualcom doesn't give two $%^&s | Jun 15 22:03 |
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schestowitz | UK subjects will be compelled to submit to ID cards http://www.richardskingdom.net/uk-subjects-will-be-compelled-to-submit-to-id-cards | Jun 15 22:04 |
schestowitz | Qualcom does nothing for FOSS | Jun 15 22:04 |
schestowitz | AFAIK | Jun 15 22:04 |
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Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: exactly, so nothing can be done aside from a lawsuit which Qualcom would surely put its best forward to defend the exclusivity of the CDMA modem source code | Jun 15 22:05 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sharing file leading to arrest: http://ping.fm/4YJLJ | Jun 15 22:05 | |
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schestowitz | Meet Maxthon Browser 3.0 http://go.maxthon.com/web/mx3/welcome/overview.htm | Jun 15 22:07 |
schestowitz | Why not Firefox? | Jun 15 22:07 |
schestowitz | Why can't Firefox grow in China? | Jun 15 22:07 |
schestowitz | Like Google can't beat Bai-dumocracy- | Jun 15 22:08 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: PRC desires browsers to have special backdoors for their Great Firewall? | Jun 15 22:08 |
schestowitz | I guess so. | Jun 15 22:08 |
MinceR | google bent over for them | Jun 15 22:08 |
schestowitz | Baidu can also have more surveillance implemented in JS, cookies, whatever | Jun 15 22:09 |
schestowitz | MinceR: google cares about money | Jun 15 22:09 |
schestowitz | Like IBM in the 1930s | Jun 15 22:09 |
MinceR | i know | Jun 15 22:09 |
MinceR | yet they say "do no evil" | Jun 15 22:09 |
schestowitz | I wonder how many people need to be slaughtered before Google says, "well, OK, so... what do we do now?" | Jun 15 22:09 |
MinceR | i'm afraid never | Jun 15 22:10 |
schestowitz | Do know evil? | Jun 15 22:10 |
MinceR | they look like a typical usanian company | Jun 15 22:10 |
schestowitz | Eurasian | Jun 15 22:10 |
mib_hv8x1c | Roy, I remember using Maxthon on Windows, a few years back, thinking it was an alternative to IE, but someone on a forum explained that it was just IE with some customization...blech. | Jun 15 22:10 |
MinceR | tread over anyone and everyone to get more money | Jun 15 22:10 |
schestowitz | mib_hv8x1c: yes, TABS :-) | Jun 15 22:10 |
mib_hv8x1c | Oops, sorry...this is wallclimber being a "Mib" again | Jun 15 22:11 |
schestowitz | Yo! | Jun 15 22:11 |
schestowitz | /nick wallclimber | Jun 15 22:11 |
mib_hv8x1c | Hi! | Jun 15 22:11 |
schestowitz | New Infomation Advisor < http://blogs.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/digitalengagement/ > | Jun 15 22:11 |
mib_hv8x1c | I know I need to catch on to this IRC stuff...have to get back to work in a minute, just stopped in to say hi | Jun 15 22:12 |
schestowitz | "This is, of course, intentionally useless – it's like selling a bicycle without any wheels. It's designed to make the product as unattractive as possible, so that Microsoft can then point to its market failure as proof that the European Commission was completely misguided in its actions. " http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?blogid=14&entryid=2266 | Jun 15 22:13 |
schestowitz | mib_hv8x1c: should I halt with news and do Comes instead? | Jun 15 22:13 |
schestowitz | It's tempting to do wither | Jun 15 22:13 |
schestowitz | *either | Jun 15 22:13 |
mib_hv8x1c | sure! let's get started. i'll email you | Jun 15 22:13 |
MinceR | there were plenty of ie+tabs browsers | Jun 15 22:14 |
schestowitz | Mozilla calls on all browsers to support Ogg for HTML 5 < http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/06/mozilla-calls-on-all-browsers.html > | Jun 15 22:14 |
schestowitz | mib_hv8x1c: cool,thanks! | Jun 15 22:14 |
schestowitz | MinceR: but not inspired by the Mighty Blue E | Jun 15 22:14 |
MinceR | i remembered MyIE, but apparently that's the ancestor of Maxthon | Jun 15 22:14 |
schestowitz | How can you use the inetrnets without the blue EEEE ?!?!#@ | Jun 15 22:14 |
mib_hv8x1c | no problem, talk soon (gotta work now) | Jun 15 22:14 |
MinceR | the big blue EEE, you mean? :> | Jun 15 22:15 |
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schestowitz | Embrace, extend... | Jun 15 22:15 |
mtnd3w | "Novell to ship Linux-monitoring tool for Microsoft" http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,62055025,00.htm | Jun 15 22:15 |
schestowitz | And ActievX | Jun 15 22:15 |
schestowitz | macabe: yes | Jun 15 22:15 |
schestowitz | Ops Manager? | Jun 15 22:15 |
schestowitz | Let's see.. | Jun 15 22:15 |
schestowitz | Novell makes Microsoft eh captain in the DC | Jun 15 22:16 |
schestowitz | "Novell said in a statement on Wednesday that joint sales of Linux support certificates..." | Jun 15 22:18 |
schestowitz | I can visualise some d0rk waving a "Certificate" | Jun 15 22:18 |
schestowitz | "I've got patent protection!" :-) | Jun 15 22:18 |
schestowitz | "And... it's from MICROSOFT" | Jun 15 22:18 |
schestowitz | "Those NOVELL chaps are SOOOO cool... selling me certificate to use Linux........ from MICROSOFT | Jun 15 22:19 |
schestowitz | http://www.openoasis.org/ "OASIS aims to provide an authoritative ‘sourcebook’ on Open Access, covering the concept, principles, advantages, approaches and means to achieving it. The site highlights developments and initiatives from around the world, with links to diverse additional resources and case studies. As such, it is a community-building as much as a resource-building exercise. Users are encouraged to share and download | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | the resources provided, and to modify and customize them for local use. Open Access is evolving, and we invite the growing world-wide community to take part in this exciting global movement. | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | Adobe Flash Player not installed or older than 9.0.115! | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | Get Adobe Flash Player here | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | Read more about the site. | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | Jun 15 22:20 | |
schestowitz | OAweek_468x60 | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | Jun 15 22:20 | |
schestowitz | News | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | * Fascinating Meeting at the Copyright Office | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | * What does it mean to support open science? | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | * Editor will quit over hoax paper | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | * Gold OA Funds | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | * TP: "Es hilft nicht, an den alten Geschäftsmodellen festzuhalten." | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | * Information Research - ideas and debate: Bentham follow-up | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | " | Jun 15 22:20 |
schestowitz | Oops. | Jun 15 22:21 |
schestowitz | I pasted too much | Jun 15 22:21 |
schestowitz | Is this the same OASIS? | Jun 15 22:21 |
schestowitz | "we're open.." | Jun 15 22:21 |
schestowitz | use Flash | Jun 15 22:21 |
schestowitz | Enable JS... | Jun 15 22:21 |
schestowitz | "So What Exactly Does Linus Do These Days?[...] So know we know: just like in any other job, he's ended up in management..." http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/06/so-what-exactly-does-linus-do-these.html | Jun 15 22:22 |
schestowitz | Worldchanging Interview: Bill McKibben http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/009974.html | Jun 15 22:23 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: oh why does he have to be for Carbon Points :( | Jun 15 22:26 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: pricing Carbon output will just make it easier for larger corporation to stay on top while newer businesses will have a harder time trying to gain output to meet their potential demand | Jun 15 22:27 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and Carbon Points don't just apply to the physical output of carbon dioxide, it also applies to energy input and how much electricity is used. Since rule of thumb in the US dictates you are most likely utilizing the electricity from a coal or natural gas power plant. | Jun 15 22:28 |
Omar87 | Sheesh! What a disgusting video: http://chris.pirillo.com/desktop-linux/ | Jun 15 22:29 |
Omar87 | Full of MS yip-yapping.. -_- | Jun 15 22:29 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: you can see all his sponsors | Jun 15 22:30 |
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Omar87 | Carl_Rover2k12: Yeah, just seeing the GoDaddy logo among his sponsors gives you all the evidence you need to know exactly what's on his mind. | Jun 15 22:31 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: I like how people who think they know whats good for the "ignorant" consumers think that competition would turn them away, and not look on the bright side that it offers choice | Jun 15 22:32 |
Omar87 | Carl_Rover2k12: Yeah.. | Jun 15 22:32 |
Omar87 | Carl_Rover2k12: By the way, Chris Pirillo turns out to be so contradicted with himself. He doesn't know what he wants. | Jun 15 22:33 |
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Omar87 | Carl_Rover2k12: Because just about a month ago, he made a video about a GPL'ed file sharing application called "Tonido", and he seemed so amazed about how great it is. | Jun 15 22:34 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: as long as its also on Windows or OSX he loves it | Jun 15 22:35 |
Omar87 | But when you hear him talking about openness of Linux, you find a totally opposite kind of thinking. | Jun 15 22:35 |
Omar87 | I think he's either a psychopath, or an idiot, or simply an MS kool-aid junky. | Jun 15 22:36 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: I hear as much about people who can't support themselves with Vista because of all the administrative hurdles they have to go through. OSX is not exactly friendly when it comes to completely uninstalling including the ktexts. | Jun 15 22:37 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: can you imagine someone at the Apple Genius Bar trying to explain the virtues of Libraries and Extensions? | Jun 15 22:38 |
Omar87 | huh? | Jun 15 22:38 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: just saying that Fedora, Ubuntu and even Red Hat make uninstalling as easy as unchecking selections on the Repository App. | Jun 15 22:39 |
Omar87 | Carl_Rover2k12: Exactly. | Jun 15 22:39 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | Omar87: if thats not userfriendly than I don't know what is | Jun 15 22:40 |
Omar87 | Sometimes it's even dangerously easy, lol. :) | Jun 15 22:40 |
schestowitz | New Parliament retains gender imbalance < http://www.euractiv.com/en/eu-elections/new-parliament-retains-gender-imbalance/article-183125?Ref=RSS > | Jun 15 22:40 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: whatever happened to just voting in who you want to represent you? | Jun 15 22:41 |
schestowitz | Personally? | Jun 15 22:42 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: they just need to make smaller, less potent authoritiies | Jun 15 22:42 |
schestowitz | Like cliques of people decide, but not political parties where only ONE takes power | Jun 15 22:42 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: the EU Parliament is starting to sound more like the Soviet Politburo with all these edicts and requirements for "proper representation." | Jun 15 22:42 |
schestowitz | And the rest are spectators | Jun 15 22:43 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: meh. | Jun 15 22:43 |
schestowitz | Heard of EPO? | Jun 15 22:43 |
schestowitz | They don't accept input from Spanish people | Jun 15 22:43 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: I see the word "Eypo" on the Euro currency, but aside from that no | Jun 15 22:43 |
schestowitz | EPO - Europe? Private company? Elite? Brimelow amd Ilk? | Jun 15 22:43 |
schestowitz | I;ve never really paid attention to what the Euro might mean to offshoring | Jun 15 22:44 |
schestowitz | And lowering of wages | Jun 15 22:44 |
schestowitz | aka Globalisation... the term "global currency" is sometimes associated with nuts | Jun 15 22:45 |
schestowitz | UnitedDollar | Jun 15 22:45 |
schestowitz | All versus the Asia currencies taking capital in oil trade | Jun 15 22:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Shooting stars never stop. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/7859.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/521664.html | Jun 15 22:45 | |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: there is no need for "global currency" when all currency is judged and exchanged on a global standard enforced by the G units or World Bank/IMF | Jun 15 22:45 |
schestowitz | USD? | Jun 15 22:46 |
schestowitz | G unit? | Jun 15 22:46 |
schestowitz | ? | Jun 15 22:46 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: G3, G6, G10 and ect G summits | Jun 15 22:46 |
fewa | schestowitz, the EU is pretty good male v female | Jun 15 22:46 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: all of these meetings, summits and organization are done primarily to ensure a certain standard of global trade. Which in many cases is the kind that benefits a few. | Jun 15 22:47 |
schestowitz | http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=14071#p50028 | Jun 15 22:48 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: you also have he World Intellectual Property Organization, which ensures that businesses are able to hold and make money off of their IPs across borders and in different nations or states. | Jun 15 22:49 |
schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: not "Few" | Jun 15 22:49 |
schestowitz | "Few _that mater_" | Jun 15 22:49 |
schestowitz | Them the responsible adults | Jun 15 22:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: well few in the scope of the entire world's populous | Jun 15 22:49 |
schestowitz | Can't let us kids run round rampant. | Jun 15 22:49 |
schestowitz | WIPO is a corporate shill | Jun 15 22:49 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: whatever few benefit from it eventually trickle down to the many, or so Reganomics put it | Jun 15 22:50 |
schestowitz | Whether made by companies or their lobbyists or pollies whom they fund | Jun 15 22:50 |
schestowitz | It's there t serve a purpose | Jun 15 22:50 |
schestowitz | But whose? | Jun 15 22:50 |
balzac | that's why Capitalist-Activism is necessary | Jun 15 22:52 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: WIPO is one of the oldest organizations for setting a standard for global trade and exchange that effect us. The name has changed and they have recently in 1967 have come under the hospices of the UN, but meetings of this sort have held among nations since the 18th century. | Jun 15 22:52 |
balzac | Captasticalivism | Jun 15 22:52 |
balzac | craptastivism | Jun 15 22:52 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: to serve the IP and respect the trademarks of large businesses that started being established during that time | Jun 15 22:53 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: its one of the reasons why Zeta OS was still considered illegal because it broke with BeOS IPs. I can name numerous other examples too. | Jun 15 22:54 |
*tessier is typing this on a Linux 7.2 desktop he set up for his mom in 2001 and has been running 24/7 ever since | Jun 15 22:55 | |
balzac | rh? | Jun 15 22:58 |
Carl_Rover2k12 | brb | Jun 15 23:00 |
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schestowitz | Is Google About To Introduce A Microblog Search Offering? < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-will-google-launch-a-twitter-search-engine/#extended > | Jun 15 23:01 |
schestowitz | tessier: no patching? | Jun 15 23:01 |
balzac | I'm having a GNU/Linux install fest | Jun 15 23:02 |
balzac | installing a bunch of distros on virtualbox | Jun 15 23:02 |
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balzac | crunchbang, damn small linux, gnewsense, dream linux, debian, backtrack, wolvix | Jun 15 23:04 |
balzac | I'll be adding slackware, blag, fedora, gentoo as well | Jun 15 23:04 |
balzac | might as well try zenwalk while i'm at it... | Jun 15 23:04 |
balzac | I have two monitors now, 1440x900 resolution, running from a geforce 7600 GT | Jun 15 23:06 |
balzac | sadly with nvidia's proprietary driver :( | Jun 15 23:06 |
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fewa | the propritary driver is 8 womping megs of kernel code | Jun 15 23:10 |
fewa | its as big as the kernel itsself | Jun 15 23:10 |
trmanco | the complete kernel is about 60 MB | Jun 15 23:13 |
trmanco | compiled, I would say 20? it really depends | Jun 15 23:13 |
trmanco | but squashing the kernel into 8 megs, that would be art, no? | Jun 15 23:14 |
balzac | nvidia's driver? | Jun 15 23:15 |
*_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 23:15 | |
_Goblin | evening all | Jun 15 23:16 |
trmanco | yeah | Jun 15 23:16 |
trmanco | comparing with that yeah | Jun 15 23:16 |
trmanco | Hi _Goblin | Jun 15 23:16 |
*Daemonbuntu (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 23:17 | |
Daemonbuntu | well, Banshee 1.5 at least seems to understand what this device is | Jun 15 23:17 |
balzac | The GPUs are getting pretty fancy, so I can understand to some degree. But it's probably quite a bit bigger than necessary | Jun 15 23:17 |
trmanco | Daemonbuntu, nice name for a distro :-P | Jun 15 23:18 |
Daemonbuntu | uh huh | Jun 15 23:18 |
Daemonbuntu | if I start Banshee then plug the player in, it crashes | Jun 15 23:19 |
Daemonbuntu | if I plugthe player in then start Banshee, it reads it | Jun 15 23:19 |
balzac | well, it is mono-based | Jun 15 23:19 |
balzac | you know, the MS-funded projects tend to be slapped together hastily | Jun 15 23:19 |
Daemonbuntu | the firmware on the player seems to be full of bugs | Jun 15 23:20 |
Daemonbuntu | "auto detect" sometimes chooses MTP and sometimes PTP | Jun 15 23:20 |
trmanco | mono banshee.exe | Jun 15 23:20 |
Daemonbuntu | on the same operating system | Jun 15 23:20 |
trmanco | crash.dll doesn't seem to function well when you insert player before banshee start :-P | Jun 15 23:21 |
Daemonbuntu | if it chooses PTP, then Ubuntu can talk to it and Banshee understands that it's a media player | Jun 15 23:21 |
schestowitz | Daemonbuntu: you're nymshifting | Jun 15 23:22 |
schestowitz | I'd have to ban you | Jun 15 23:22 |
Daemonbuntu | whatever | Jun 15 23:23 |
Daemonbuntu | its pretty obvious who I am | Jun 15 23:23 |
Daemonbuntu | if balzac can figure it out, so can your stuffed iguana | Jun 15 23:24 |
Daemonbuntu | but as you insist | Jun 15 23:24 |
*Daemonbuntu is now known as DaemonFC | Jun 15 23:24 | |
trmanco | :| | Jun 15 23:24 |
trmanco | I just gpl'ed you other nick | Jun 15 23:25 |
trmanco | no one can steel it now :-P | Jun 15 23:25 |
balzac | well, just installed gnewsense on virtualbox | Jun 15 23:25 |
balzac | it's rather nice | Jun 15 23:25 |
DaemonFC | well yeah, VirtualBox is generic hardware several years old that Linux has never really had a problem with | Jun 15 23:26 |
mtnd3w | balzac: gNewSense has Mono btw | Jun 15 23:26 |
DaemonFC | so Gnewsense will run | Jun 15 23:26 |
balzac | really? | Jun 15 23:26 |
DaemonFC | now for your next trick, try it on real hardware | Jun 15 23:26 |
DaemonFC | :) | Jun 15 23:26 |
balzac | outrageous | Jun 15 23:26 |
mtnd3w | balzac: yes :/ | Jun 15 23:26 |
balzac | why? | Jun 15 23:26 |
DaemonFC | cause it's free software | Jun 15 23:27 |
DaemonFC | just throwing that out there | Jun 15 23:27 |
DaemonFC | ;) | Jun 15 23:27 |
balzac | yeah, well I mentioned it to Richard over dinner once | Jun 15 23:27 |
balzac | and he didn't seem as riled up about it as me, but I haven't figured out why not | Jun 15 23:27 |
balzac | maybe it's confidence in the ultimate victory of good over software patents | Jun 15 23:28 |
mtnd3w | Richard Stallman: Mono is a free implementation of Microsoft's language C#. Microsoft has declared itself our enemy and we know that Microsoft is getting patents on some features of C#. So I think it's dangerous to use C#, and it may be dangerous to use Mono. There's nothing wrong with Mono. Mono is a free implementation of a language that users use. It's good to provide free implementations. We should have free implementations of | Jun 15 23:28 |
mtnd3w | every language. But, depending on it is dangerous, and we better not do that. | Jun 15 23:28 |
balzac | ok | Jun 15 23:28 |
balzac | that's good to know | Jun 15 23:28 |
balzac | RMS doesn't always stay right on top of issues, tracking them day-to-day. He relies on people to bring new issues to his attention. | Jun 15 23:29 |
balzac | I don't get the impression that he uses a blog aggregator | Jun 15 23:29 |
balzac | Mono is technically "free software", but it's GPLv2 and it's Microsoft-sponsored (indirectly), so it's clearly a trojan horse bearing patent claims for Lord Ballmer and his minions. | Jun 15 23:31 |
balzac | I'm glad RMS has hardened his rhetoric against it. | Jun 15 23:31 |
balzac | mtnd3w: can I see a link? | Jun 15 23:31 |
tessier | schestowitz: Nope, zero patching for 8 years. Spent a few years on a dialup modem but is now behind a nat. Does not run any services. So that helps a lot. | Jun 15 23:32 |
balzac | Now that Stallman has spoken, why is gnewsense still carrying mono? | Jun 15 23:32 |
schestowitz | No idea... | Jun 15 23:32 |
schestowitz | But it's inherited from Ubuntu | Jun 15 23:32 |
balzac | now i'm going to install fedora | Jun 15 23:33 |
schestowitz | Their goal is to provide Ubuntu without the blobs | Jun 15 23:33 |
schestowitz | Not to make too much of a remix | Jun 15 23:33 |
schestowitz | BLAG is Mono-free | Jun 15 23:33 |
schestowitz | And it's based on Fedora | Jun 15 23:33 |
balzac | i've got that one downloading | Jun 15 23:33 |
mtnd3w | http://fsfe.org/documents/rms-fs-2006-03-09.en.html#q1 | Jun 15 23:33 |
mtnd3w | balzac: it's from a transcript | Jun 15 23:34 |
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.14.136.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 23:35 | |
balzac | ok | Jun 15 23:35 |
DaemonFC | http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7687/screenshotsvj.png | Jun 15 23:36 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u r done with MDV? | Jun 15 23:36 |
DaemonFC | looks like if it happens to choose PTP, Ubuntu knows what to do | Jun 15 23:37 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 15 23:37 |
balzac | well, maybe it was that I brought up Miguel de Icaza and mono, and he was trying to have a light touch in how he spoke of the wayward developer | Jun 15 23:37 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : does Banshee have an equalizer? | Jun 15 23:37 |
balzac | I can't remember the conversation clearly enough to say anything definitive. | Jun 15 23:37 |
DaemonFC | http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8283/screenshotm.png | Jun 15 23:38 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it does | Jun 15 23:38 |
DaemonFC | /dev/sdf1 on /media/Sansa View type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal,shortname=mixed,uid=1000,utf8,umask=077,flush) | Jun 15 23:39 |
_Hicham_ | wow, it is great then | Jun 15 23:39 |
balzac | Blag downloading, Fedora installing, Debian booting for the first time | Jun 15 23:39 |
trmanco | audacious suits my needs | Jun 15 23:39 |
DaemonFC | it's using FAT32 | Jun 15 23:39 |
DaemonFC | for storage | Jun 15 23:39 |
balzac | audacity? | Jun 15 23:39 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : normal | Jun 15 23:40 |
_Hicham_ | I am still installing Windows XP | Jun 15 23:40 |
_Goblin | offtopic: Heres a mad idea...Microsoft to buy Setanta? It seems like with the recent sky/microsoft deal, Microsoft may be getting more into the entertain world..... | Jun 15 23:40 |
_Hicham_ | but overall performance is good | Jun 15 23:40 |
DaemonFC | I wonder if OpenSuse could figure this device out | Jun 15 23:40 |
DaemonFC | it seems Microsoft-ish enough | Jun 15 23:40 |
DaemonFC | :P | Jun 15 23:40 |
_Hicham_ | which device DaemonFC ? your Salsa? | Jun 15 23:41 |
DaemonFC | Sansa | Jun 15 23:41 |
DaemonFC | yes | Jun 15 23:41 |
_Hicham_ | Now it is easier to get help, and help others | Jun 15 23:41 |
_Hicham_ | that is what im seeing on Windows XP install screen | Jun 15 23:41 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Jun 15 23:42 |
_Hicham_ | great community sense | Jun 15 23:42 |
DaemonFC | you can use Remote Assistance | Jun 15 23:42 |
DaemonFC | that's part of what Windows Messenger can do | Jun 15 23:42 |
DaemonFC | but you can send invite passes through email too | Jun 15 23:42 |
_Hicham_ | I know that | Jun 15 23:42 |
_Hicham_ | I have done it before | Jun 15 23:42 |
_Hicham_ | I just want to see Windows XP performance with qemu | Jun 15 23:43 |
_Hicham_ | the kqemu accelerator is great | Jun 15 23:43 |
_Hicham_ | qemu is the base for all vitualization s/w | Jun 15 23:43 |
_Hicham_ | I really do respect Fabrice Bellet | Jun 15 23:44 |
_Hicham_ | he is a real computer wizard | Jun 15 23:45 |
_Hicham_ | Setup will finish in approximately 2min | Jun 15 23:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Heres a crazy idea I had: #Microsoft to buy Setanta's premier league package?...Hey anythings possible... | Jun 15 23:45 | |
_Hicham_ | it have been a long time since I installed Windows XP | Jun 15 23:46 |
_Hicham_ | Saving settings | Jun 15 23:46 |
_Hicham_ | which settings is it saving? | Jun 15 23:46 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: are you still trying to get the shills to subscribe to you because of the tags? | Jun 15 23:46 |
schestowitz | You're like a shillbait | Jun 15 23:46 |
schestowitz | shill-magnet | Jun 15 23:47 |
_Hicham_ | Removing any temporory files used | Jun 15 23:47 |
_Hicham_ | that is a logical phase | Jun 15 23:47 |
_Hicham_ | deleting, deleting, deleting | Jun 15 23:47 |
_Hicham_ | Finalizing installation | Jun 15 23:47 |
_Hicham_ | Cleaning DaemonFC | Jun 15 23:47 |
_Hicham_ | Setup is complete | Jun 15 23:48 |
DaemonFC | saving your settings of course | Jun 15 23:48 |
DaemonFC | that's there in case you used WAIK | Jun 15 23:49 |
DaemonFC | don't you know anything? :D | Jun 15 23:49 |
_Hicham_ | WAIK? | Jun 15 23:49 |
DaemonFC | Windows Automated Installation Kit | Jun 15 23:49 |
ThistleWeb | nice to see Gordon Brown's understood this new call for transparent government huh? Iraq War inquiry to be held in secret | Jun 15 23:49 |
DaemonFC | unattended swetup | Jun 15 23:49 |
DaemonFC | :D | Jun 15 23:49 |
DaemonFC | nLite can also do that | Jun 15 23:50 |
DaemonFC | or vLite if you use Vista | Jun 15 23:50 |
balzac | there's a conspiracy to protect Bush, Blair, and others | Jun 15 23:50 |
_Hicham_ | most of pirated CDs are automated | Jun 15 23:50 |
ThistleWeb | cue another "mistakes were made, lessons were learned, ministers did nothing wrong" report | Jun 15 23:50 |
balzac | lots of American members of congress | Jun 15 23:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux 2.6.30's best five features < http://ping.fm/mTtKU > | Jun 15 23:50 | |
DaemonFC | I won't likely use Linux 2.6.30 | Jun 15 23:51 |
DaemonFC | I got hit by some kind of bug when I did | Jun 15 23:51 |
DaemonFC | and so I got rid of it | Jun 15 23:51 |
DaemonFC | couldn't see any video DVDs | Jun 15 23:51 |
*balzac offers DaemonFC a tissue | Jun 15 23:51 | |
_Hicham_ | what bug? | Jun 15 23:51 |
_Hicham_ | great for ya | Jun 15 23:52 |
_Hicham_ | did u compile it urself? | Jun 15 23:52 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm, Windows XP can see the files Banshee put on here | Jun 15 23:53 |
DaemonFC | good enough for me | Jun 15 23:53 |
DaemonFC | I tried Mandriva's kernel-linus 2.6.30 | Jun 15 23:53 |
DaemonFC | and compiled my own | Jun 15 23:53 |
DaemonFC | both have same problem | Jun 15 23:53 |
_Hicham_ | report the bug then | Jun 15 23:55 |
*DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 15 23:56 | |
ThistleWeb | politicians don't seem to have grasped the concept that the only people who believe in their findings, are them. The public have long dismissed them as whitewashes | Jun 15 23:56 |
ThistleWeb | having a controversial inquiry in private only gets it dismissed as a whitewash before it's started its work | Jun 15 23:57 |
balzac | well, there are still some really ignorant Americans who still believe lots of the crap they're told on Fox. | Jun 15 23:57 |
ThistleWeb | yeah the gene pool does still have contaminants | Jun 15 23:58 |
schestowitz | Darwin's awards don't work though | Jun 15 23:58 |
_Hicham_ | the pirated version of Windows XP that i have comes bundled with a lot of software | Jun 15 23:59 |
_Hicham_ | all pirated | Jun 15 23:59 |
schestowitz | Those who survice are the f*ckwits | Jun 15 23:59 |
_Hicham_ | for example | Jun 15 23:59 |
schestowitz | They bomb hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians | Jun 15 23:59 |
_Hicham_ | Microsoft Office | Jun 15 23:59 |
balzac | I'd prefer to blame cultural problems, or at worst, pollution. | Jun 15 23:59 |
_Hicham_ | Winrar | Jun 15 23:59 |
ThistleWeb | bombing creates jobs, people need to build and sell them to the warmonger | Jun 15 23:59 |
_Hicham_ | I like the fact that I have Firefox on Windows CD | Jun 15 23:59 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: this is why the gene problem is not resolved | Jun 15 23:59 |
*Daemonbuntu (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 15 23:59 | |
balzac | when you take their genetics into account, they get even crazier to prove their superiority. | Jun 15 23:59 |
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