IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 18th, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Aussie-Style Orwell[ian]ism Comes to Germany http://ping.fm/72gqh http://ping.fm/ytQMZ http://ping.fm/w1rtfJun 18 00:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Big Brown is Watching You in the UK http://ping.fm/zgusr http://ping.fm/dccH1Jun 18 00:02
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.132.177.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovellJun 18 00:04
neighborleeschestowitz, not sure i'd ever read that..thx for that miguel conversation about sam's article..very revealingJun 18 00:04
schestowitzindeedJun 18 00:05
schestowitzWe'll be hearing lots more in time to comeJun 18 00:05
neighborleeim confident of thatJun 18 00:05
neighborleeI know from sam that there has still been no 'answer'Jun 18 00:06
schestowitzMS goes into the trashcan, so it'll fight backJun 18 00:06
neighborleefully expect that yupJun 18 00:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Backdoor Wiretapping Coming to You. Time fort PGP. http://ping.fm/D9A90Jun 18 00:07
ThistleWebis it just me or does "backdoor wiretapping" sound like a BDSM game?Jun 18 00:10
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellJun 18 00:10
yuhongBTW, do you know how Intel and Microsoft got their monopoly in their first place?Jun 18 00:11
yuhongBecause IBM chose the Intel 8086 and MS-DOS for the IBM PC.Jun 18 00:11
schestowitzThistleWeb: just you. :-)Jun 18 00:11
yuhongWhich was so popular almost everyone began to clone it, creating a a de facto standard.Jun 18 00:12
ThistleWeb:PJun 18 00:12
neighborleelolJun 18 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New York Times Spreads Copyright Propaganda http://ping.fm/dRw3EJun 18 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Zealand tries to revive 3 strikes law http://ping.fm/11rk3Jun 18 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] HADOPI Copyright Law To Get New Set Of Teeth With Additional Law http://ping.fm/BCzAdJun 18 00:12
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*ThistleWeb has a habit of wordplay for comedic effectJun 18 00:12
yuhongIn fact, even back in 1981 there was the 68000, which was considered to be better in many ways.Jun 18 00:12
yuhongFor example, it had a flat address space, while the 8086 was segmented.Jun 18 00:13
yuhongOnly with the 386 was a flat address space possible, and even that had to be done by using segments with zero base and 0xFFFFFFFF limit.Jun 18 00:13
yuhongWhich almost all modern x86 OSes uses today.Jun 18 00:14
ThistleWebtime and again, the approach of islands competing with each other has proven not to work, where creating an island they can all compete on doesJun 18 00:14
ThistleWebMicrosoft's island is sinkingJun 18 00:15
ThistleWebtheir citizens are seeing other, more prosperous places to beJun 18 00:15
ThistleWebthey are building boatsJun 18 00:15
ThistleWebwhile all Microsoft can do is try to breed more sharks in the water surrounding it, and have an army of safety people telling them what they see is a mirageJun 18 00:16
yuhongOn the matter of "islands", here is a good link from "Open Sources".Jun 18 00:17
yuhonghttp://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/raymond.htmlJun 18 00:17
ThistleWebHD DVD and BluRay held people back until one format "won"Jun 18 00:17
yuhongI know.Jun 18 00:17
ThistleWebwhen that island was decided, the customers started coming and the prices started dropping. I can't think of any island approach that's worked in any line of businessJun 18 00:18
ThistleWebspecially with technologyJun 18 00:18
ThistleWebApple is kinda closeJun 18 00:18
ThistleWebwith their digital straitjacketJun 18 00:18
fewabut apple's market share is about as big as it can getJun 18 00:19
ThistleWebthey do have the lions share of the mp3 market, so almost anyone who wants an iPod, has oneJun 18 00:20
ThistleWebso they're gonna be restricted to replacement salesJun 18 00:20
fewathere is an irony that when something is sold as a symbol ecomes ubiquidousJun 18 00:20
ThistleWebbut then, they do the vendor lock-in formats so well so they ensure it costs a LOT more to move away from AppleJun 18 00:20
fewathe EFF has been helping fight thatJun 18 00:21
ThistleWebon the other hand, iPods are desirable to many peepsJun 18 00:21
fewaApple's abuse of the DMCA for oneJun 18 00:21
ThistleWebunlike Windows, many people actually WANT to buy an iPod, even as a replacementJun 18 00:22
schestowitzping neighborlee: Jun 18 00:22
schestowitz===Jun 18 00:22
ThistleWebnot me, I wouldn't be seen dead with oneJun 18 00:22
DaemonMDViPod is annoyingJun 18 00:22
DaemonMDVbuggy firmware that only wants to talk to iTunesJun 18 00:22
DaemonMDVyou think PlaysForSure players are bad, you haven't seen anything til you see an iPodJun 18 00:23
DaemonMDVblecthJun 18 00:23
DaemonMDVat least my Sansa talks to Rhythmbox when it's in a good moodJun 18 00:23
ThistleWeblolJun 18 00:23
DaemonMDVtry syncing an iPod with RhythmboxJun 18 00:23
ThistleWebI know it's cat & mouse with the iPod and non-iTunes appsJun 18 00:24
DaemonMDVget EVERY track dumped in Unknown Album Unknown ArtistJun 18 00:24
DaemonMDVwith no artorkJun 18 00:24
DaemonMDVand no play orderJun 18 00:24
DaemonMDVthat's if it even connectsJun 18 00:24
ThistleWebworks for a lil while until Apple hear about it, then an update will break itJun 18 00:24
fewaits monopoly abuseJun 18 00:24
fewalocking out competitors with no legitimate reasonJun 18 00:25
DaemonMDVand God help you if you try syncing it on Windows or Mac using iTunes as well as whatever you use on LinuxJun 18 00:25
DaemonMDViTunes will just corrupt the databaseJun 18 00:25
ThistleWebexternal devices with storage for files should be read / writeable as a file systemJun 18 00:25
DaemonMDVnothing you added in Linux will play anymoreJun 18 00:25
neighborleeschestowitz, sorry was chatting with someone elsewhere...Jun 18 00:25
neighborleeschestowitz, pongJun 18 00:25
schestowitzI'll paste somethingJun 18 00:26
neighborleelolJun 18 00:26
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DaemonMDVApple is the one that needs investigatingJun 18 00:26
schestowitzComment on it hereJun 18 00:26
schestowitzI need to know if you know about the person's relation to Ubuntu ForumsJun 18 00:26
ThistleWebApple do need to be smacked downJun 18 00:26
DaemonMDVthere's no good reason why every firmware breaks whatever features Linux has caught up toJun 18 00:26
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schestowitzBut reply hereJun 18 00:27
schestowitzI just don't want that name publicJun 18 00:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF Comes Before Microsoft Corruption (aka "OOXML") in new validator < http://ping.fm/tuJFH >Jun 18 00:27
DaemonMDVand with iPod firmware updates are mandatoryJun 18 00:27
ThistleWebas we've seen though, ya can't rely on the US DOJ to do their jobs, it's gonna be an EU case if it happensJun 18 00:27
DaemonMDVas soon as you plug it into a PC running iTunes it updates the firmwareJun 18 00:27
DaemonMDVwant it or notJun 18 00:27
schestowitzneighborlee: thanksJun 18 00:27
schestowitzThat's what I expectedJun 18 00:28
oiaohmYep and when it goes wrong you get a brick DaemonMDVJun 18 00:28
DaemonMDVyupJun 18 00:28
neighborleeschestowitz, npJun 18 00:28
schestowitzneighborlee> interestingJun 18 00:28
schestowitz<neighborlee> yes I saw his commments..he really is daft if you ask me ;)Jun 18 00:28
schestowitz<neighborlee> these people have far too much idle time :))Jun 18 00:28
schestowitzCan reply hereJun 18 00:28
schestowitz:-)Jun 18 00:28
DaemonMDVand if it's more than 12 months since you bought it, Apple makes you pay $50 to send it inJun 18 00:28
DaemonMDVeven though it was their update that killed itJun 18 00:28
schestowitzIt makes more sense nowJun 18 00:28
oiaohmipods don't ahve double firmware.Jun 18 00:28
schestowitzThe fight to discredit the messengersJun 18 00:28
ThistleWebit's one thing to say "it's a seamless experience and the prefered way to use your iPod". It's something entirely different to force the issue, regardless of your prefsJun 18 00:28
oiaohmdouble firmwares prevent bricking.Jun 18 00:28
schestowitzAnd those whom they want to associated with scapegoatsJun 18 00:28
DaemonMDVI won't ever own another iPodJun 18 00:29
DaemonMDVit was only Rockbox that made the last one usefulJun 18 00:29
oiaohmNormal good double firmware is a boot rom.Jun 18 00:29
oiaohmThat if main firmware is dead it still works enough to upload another firmware.Jun 18 00:29
DaemonMDVSansa has a firmware on a ROM and firmware updates are stores on the devices flash memoryJun 18 00:29
ThistleWebyep, as much as I wouldn't buy an iPod, I would use it if I were given it, but the first thing I'd be investigating is rokboxJun 18 00:30
DaemonMDVso if something goes wrong you can at least get back to version 1.0Jun 18 00:30
oiaohmThat is a good designed device DaemonMDVJun 18 00:30
DaemonMDVin some waysJun 18 00:30
yuhongBTW, on Apple and open source, the most interesting thing IMO is that xnu has a effective copy of Vista's protected processes called PT_DENY_ATTACH, but if you have the source you can easily patch it out.Jun 18 00:30
oiaohmEarly Ipod had a for sure operate as a usb key.Jun 18 00:30
DaemonMDVRhythmbox has just now caught up to this device's MTP featuresJun 18 00:30
DaemonMDVonly 0.12.2 will transfer artworkJun 18 00:31
yuhongIt makes me wonder about the politics going on inside Apple regarding open source.Jun 18 00:31
DaemonMDVif you're using AAC filesJun 18 00:31
oiaohmSo you could still reflash if something went wrong.Jun 18 00:31
ThistleWebApple love free software the same as Microsoft doJun 18 00:31
yuhongBTW, that feature is used by the closed source iTunes.Jun 18 00:31
ThistleWebthey're just very picky on the licenceJun 18 00:31
DaemonMDVoiaohm: There is no flashJun 18 00:31
yuhongThistleWeb: I would not go that far.Jun 18 00:31
DaemonMDVyou just mount it in MSC mode and copy the update folders into a special firmware folderJun 18 00:31
DaemonMDVand it loads off of that instead of the one in ROMJun 18 00:32
ThistleWebthey love software that's already written, that they can take, rebrand, modify without releasing changes and claim as their ownJun 18 00:32
DaemonMDVif the device can't boot, it goes into MSC mode so you can delete the bad firmwareJun 18 00:32
ThistleWebfree software under the BSD licence fits the bill perfectlyJun 18 00:32
yuhongWell, Apple does release some of their own code such as teh xnu kernel.Jun 18 00:32
DaemonMDVI still kind of wish they'd put out a version of Rockbox for the Sansa ViewJun 18 00:33
ThistleWebthey (Microsoft) hate GPL free software because they HAVE to keep it open, release changes etcJun 18 00:33
DaemonMDVif nothing else, I'd get Vorbis support and DOOMJun 18 00:33
oiaohmdarwin the core of OS X is released under BSD.Jun 18 00:33
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 00:33
yuhongTrue.Jun 18 00:33
DaemonMDVbut I have to admit, AAC sounds pretty damned goodJun 18 00:33
oiaohmNot exactly right ThistleWeb.  MS will release under GPLv2 but not GPLv3Jun 18 00:33
ThistleWebApple does release some code, but they dont have toJun 18 00:33
yuhongTrue.Jun 18 00:33
ThistleWebthey can pick and choose whichJun 18 00:33
ThistleWeband whenJun 18 00:33
ThistleWebGPL they don't have a choiceJun 18 00:34
DaemonMDVoiaohm: The Sansa can play MPEG-4 audio, but it can't be in an AAC containerJun 18 00:34
DaemonMDVit has to be a raw MPEG-4 fileJun 18 00:34
yuhongTrue also, which makes the release of their own xnu code all that more important.Jun 18 00:34
DaemonMDVit's also undocumentedJun 18 00:34
DaemonMDVI'm still thinking it was to try to get out of licensing feesJun 18 00:34
DaemonMDVcause it can play MPEG-4 video and all the M4A file is are the audio portion of the fileJun 18 00:35
*DaemonMDV loves undocumented features :DJun 18 00:35
yuhongI often mention the example of the anti-debug PT_DENY_ATTACH used by xnu being easily ripped out of the open source xnu because IMO it is a good example of open source politics inside APple.Jun 18 00:36
ThistleWebpart of what Apple and Microsoft do, is fuck with protocols and formats to ensure that competing products don't quite work right. It helps then if you can keep your changes secret and undocumented. If you have to release those changes back, your competetors can implement those changes and have their product work as well as yours on that format losing your vendor lock-inJun 18 00:36
yuhongI often mention the example of the anti-debug PT_DENY_ATTACH used by closed source iTunes being easily ripped out of the open source xnu because IMO it is a good example of open source politics inside APple.Jun 18 00:36
yuhongWhat do you think of that?Jun 18 00:37
DaemonMDVhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14Jun 18 00:37
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 00:37
*DaemonMDV also wonders why the MP4 sounds "crisper" than the CD sometimesJun 18 00:37
DaemonMDVit's weirdJun 18 00:37
DaemonMDV:PJun 18 00:37
oiaohmMP4 encoding can strip out some of the background noise recorded into a CDJun 18 00:38
DaemonMDVas far as allocating bits and minimizing padding, MP3 seems like a machete compared to MP4's scalpelJun 18 00:38
oiaohmSo yes crisper has a cause.Jun 18 00:39
ThistleWebya know, Apple have a GREAT base to build from, so it'd be scary if they suddenly decided to push the whole company with all it's products open sourceJun 18 00:39
DaemonMDVoiaohm: I think the idea of a DVD-Audio disc sounds ridiculousJun 18 00:39
DaemonMDVthe CD is already well beyond anything a human can hearJun 18 00:39
DaemonMDVhow does going from 44.1 khz to 96 khz help at all?Jun 18 00:40
oiaohmDVD Audio was really for 5 channel stuff.Jun 18 00:40
DaemonMDVyeahJun 18 00:40
DaemonMDVCD can't do 5.1Jun 18 00:40
DaemonMDVDVD-A canJun 18 00:40
oiaohmAnd the 96 hkz range suits into operating subs better.Jun 18 00:40
DaemonMDVhmmmJun 18 00:40
DaemonMDVI was considering buying one just to seeJun 18 00:40
oiaohmIe the stuff we cannot hear.Jun 18 00:40
DaemonMDVthat would technically be as good as a vinyl recordJun 18 00:40
oiaohmThe stuff we feel.Jun 18 00:41
DaemonMDVfor frequency rangeJun 18 00:41
DaemonMDVperhaps betterJun 18 00:41
ThistleWebpart of me wonders that the main reason Microsoft guard the Windows source code so heavily, from everyone including regulators, is that it's not all theirs, and that it's probably got plenty of examples of real shody workarounds that any coder would spot and decide was amatuerJun 18 00:41
oiaohmYou can get your hands on Windows source code for embed work if you sign a NDA>Jun 18 00:42
oiaohmSo there are people out there with it.Jun 18 00:42
ThistleWebperhaps seeing the source would show all the hacks to keep changing protocols when competing products get interopperable with itJun 18 00:42
DaemonMDVThere was one MP3 encoder years back that recontructed what it was removing into a playable fileJun 18 00:42
DaemonMDVit was kind of neatJun 18 00:42
oiaohmWindows is what you call selectively closed.Jun 18 00:42
ThistleWeboiaohm: yeah some governments insist on thatJun 18 00:42
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ThistleWebyet they still sign the contractsJun 18 00:42
yuhongOn the matter of amatuer code, I remember someone on lkml calling the use of port 80 by the Linux kernel for delay purposed amatuer.Jun 18 00:42
ThistleWebbizarreJun 18 00:42
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yuhongYea, I know about shared source.Jun 18 00:42
oiaohmSome uni for teaching OS design also can show students windows source code as long as students argee not to work on clone OS's.Jun 18 00:43
ThistleWebI remember ages ago part of the windows 2000 source code turned up on TPB and Microsoft went nutsJun 18 00:43
yuhongOn the matter of amateur code, I remember someone on lkml calling the use of port 80 by the Linux kernel for delay purposes amateur.Jun 18 00:43
oiaohmIts purely selectively closed.Jun 18 00:43
ThistleWebtracking who uploaded it, everyone who downloaded it etcJun 18 00:43
oiaohmSo the idea that MS closed source state is preventing people from looking at the source code and design an attack is a lie.Jun 18 00:44
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ThistleWebapparently it was only a tiny part which served no real purpose on it's ownJun 18 00:44
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_Hicham_wowJun 18 00:45
_Hicham_openSUSE is really fast and responsiveJun 18 00:45
DaemonMDVuhhhmJun 18 00:45
DaemonMDVno?Jun 18 00:45
oiaohmWhat kernel.  _Hicham_Jun 18 00:45
DaemonMDVor you're using the KDE versionJun 18 00:45
_Hicham_no, the gnome oneJun 18 00:45
DaemonMDVtheir GNOME version is far more infected with crapJun 18 00:45
_Hicham_2.6.30-git6Jun 18 00:45
oiaohmShould have guessed.Jun 18 00:45
oiaohm2.6.30 is way more  responsive than past Linux kernels.Jun 18 00:46
ThistleWeban early LugRadio episode had one of the members sent to a Microsoft convention by his employers, where they proceeded to tell the room that malware was caused by Microsoft releasing updates, and malware writers waiting to reverse engineer them and build attacks before everyone could updateJun 18 00:46
_Hicham_the boot is also fastJun 18 00:46
oiaohmBasically it most likely still running like a dog _Hicham_ just the 2.6.30 is hidding it.  Fast boot is 2.6.30 as well.Jun 18 00:46
ThistleWebmost of the attendees were clueless peeps who knew nothing but WindowsJun 18 00:46
_Hicham_I m still having some problems with compizJun 18 00:47
_Hicham_but solvableJun 18 00:47
oiaohmNext round of distribution are all going to jump in speed _Hicham_Jun 18 00:47
_Hicham_I tested 2.6.30 on Fedora, but it wasn't that fastJun 18 00:47
DaemonMDV2.6.30 breaks my DVD video playbackJun 18 00:48
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oiaohmDaemonMDV: I have vlc working here.Jun 18 00:48
oiaohmJust took fixing the right things.Jun 18 00:48
yuhongAs I have said before, I now have a dual boot between Ubuntu and Vista, I am running Vista right now.Jun 18 00:49
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oiaohmFedora have all the kernel debuging features enabled _Hicham_Jun 18 00:49
oiaohmKinda kicks the kernel in the teeth for performance.Jun 18 00:50
_Hicham_it is already released officiallyJun 18 00:50
_Hicham_so there must be no debug featuresJun 18 00:50
oiaohmBeing able to track memory allocation inside kernel hurts.Jun 18 00:50
oiaohmI know I built my kernel here both ways.Jun 18 00:50
yuhongWhen I was running Ubuntu, the biggest issue was that sound did not work after resuming from sleep.Jun 18 00:51
_Hicham_wowJun 18 00:51
_Hicham_didn't think that openSUSE can be that fastJun 18 00:51
oiaohminterpert locking got fixed _Hicham_Jun 18 00:52
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oiaohmSo applications are not stacking up in inter calls any more.Jun 18 00:52
_Hicham_interpret locking?Jun 18 00:52
oiaohminterprets in past kernels was single threaded.Jun 18 00:53
yuhongOn reverse engineering MS security updates, here is a link:Jun 18 00:53
yuhonghttp://blog.osvdb.org/2005/06/24/reverse-engineering-microsoft-patches-in-20-minutesJun 18 00:53
oiaohmIn 2.6.30 its multi threaded and lot less locks _Hicham_Jun 18 00:53
oiaohmIts speed up Linux's responsiveness masivelly.Jun 18 00:53
oiaohmIt also gain the means to have ionice to work correctly.Jun 18 00:54
oiaohmRight up to realtime setting.Jun 18 00:54
_Hicham_wowJun 18 00:55
_Hicham_why not linux didn't have this feature before?Jun 18 00:55
oiaohmBecause its hard to get right.Jun 18 00:56
oiaohmGet it wrong you stuff the OS competely.Jun 18 00:56
oiaohmThis is why I get annoyed when people say RTOS has noting to do with desktop.Jun 18 00:57
_Hicham_also KMS stopped working for in 2.6.30 on FedoraJun 18 00:57
oiaohmThe change of the IO handling and interpers come purely from the Linux RT branch.Jun 18 00:57
_Hicham_I am removing mono from openSUSE right nowJun 18 00:57
_Hicham_massive packagesJun 18 00:58
ThistleWeb_Hicham_: DANGER WILL ROBINSON, MONO-SEGFAULTJun 18 00:58
ThistleWeb:PJun 18 00:58
ThistleWebif any distro has mono welded in it's the Novell onesJun 18 00:58
yuhongBTW, we should thank 7's XP mode for forcing Intel to add VT to their lower cost CPUs.Jun 18 00:58
yuhongthe new Q8400 and E7600 have VT.Jun 18 00:59
oiaohmYep so kvm will work on more hardware.Jun 18 00:59
ThistleWebdunno how close openSuse matches Novell's corporate direction thoughJun 18 01:00
yuhongIn face, they even released new versions of the Q8300, E7500, E7400, E5200, E5300 with VT.Jun 18 01:00
_Hicham_didn't test kvm on 2.6.30Jun 18 01:00
yuhongSee this PCN for info right from the horse's mouth:Jun 18 01:01
yuhonghttp://content.intel.pcnalert.com/dm/d.aspx/A3E94F65-56CE-4E4D-B272-2C59B2F90B0B/PCN109337-00.pdfJun 18 01:01
yuhongThe new versions with VT should be available soon, if not now.Jun 18 01:02
yuhongAnd, no there will be no stepping change, so the only way to tell if you have VT versions is to use the S-Spec or the MM number.Jun 18 01:05
DaemonMDVyuhong: should have used a power management hackJun 18 01:05
DaemonMDVUbuntu has most of the debugging crap switched onJun 18 01:07
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 01:07
yuhongOr use the product code. (look for ones that ends in ML, these have VT)Jun 18 01:07
DaemonMDVincluding a lot of the stuff where the help menu says don't turn it on unless you know what you're doingJun 18 01:08
yuhongBTW, I am typing this on a laptop with a T5250 without VT.Jun 18 01:08
_Hicham_mono is easy to remove from openSUSEJun 18 01:09
_Hicham_less than 10 seconds to removeJun 18 01:09
oiaohmHere goes the normal cat fight in the lkml again.  xen vs kvm.  Different people different ideas both accussed of being unstable.Jun 18 01:10
yuhongOn the matter of the mono trap, when do you think MS will sue?Jun 18 01:11
_Hicham_yuhong : they won't sueJun 18 01:11
yuhongSo why it matters?Jun 18 01:11
yuhongWhat MS is exactly doing with the mono trap that make it matter?Jun 18 01:11
oiaohmIts more what novel is doing.Jun 18 01:13
yuhongI am in Windows right now so can't investigate further right now.Jun 18 01:13
_Hicham_yuhong : these are all predictionsJun 18 01:13
oiaohmTrying to get desktop managers and users dependant on it.Jun 18 01:13
oiaohmThey found out early on with KDE they were not going to get far.Jun 18 01:13
yuhongSo MS can sue or what?Jun 18 01:14
*_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal")Jun 18 01:16
oiaohmThat is the problem yuhong we cannot rule that out.Jun 18 01:17
_Hicham_DaemonMDV : u should really try openSUSEJun 18 01:17
oiaohmmono is also resource heavy.Jun 18 01:17
oiaohmIn effect slows linux down yuhong.Jun 18 01:17
yuhongoiaohm: And if MS does sue, when do you think it will happen? That is what I am really asking.Jun 18 01:17
yuhongBut that is a different matter, you can say the same thing about Java.Jun 18 01:18
oiaohmJava was tried as a desktop will never be used again as that.Jun 18 01:18
oiaohmBasically .net guys are trying to repeat history.Jun 18 01:18
oiaohmIf MS sues for sure .net will be left.Jun 18 01:19
oiaohmBut if desktops people user are highly dependant on it that would be distruptive.Jun 18 01:19
ThistleWebwhether M$ will sue or not is dependant on how their profits areJun 18 01:20
fewathe new SCOJun 18 01:20
ThistleWebthe more they lose, the more they'll feel the pressure to seek protection money with false patent claimsJun 18 01:20
oiaohmExecpt unlike SCO MS may truly have a case.Jun 18 01:20
ThistleWeblike any money making venture, they will target those who can afford to payJun 18 01:21
fewathey have themselves violated so many patentsJun 18 01:21
oiaohmMS might have real solid unbreakable patents around .netJun 18 01:21
fewaoiaohm, have you read In Re Bilski?Jun 18 01:21
fewaof course we are waiting on the appealJun 18 01:21
oiaohmfewa: the bytecode of .net itself.Jun 18 01:22
yuhongAnd my question is, when do you think this will happen, if it does happen, that is?Jun 18 01:22
_Hicham_wow, and the scrolling issue in firefox is not hereJun 18 01:22
oiaohmThe means to patent protect that Bilski does not alter.Jun 18 01:22
ThistleWebit'd be nice if the first action of a patent infringement claim was an automatic public disclosure of the patents involved, and an automatic re-examination of them to see if they're valid, and only if they are, does the case proceedJun 18 01:22
fewaoiaohm, how does that transmore a piticular state of being, and how is it tied to a specific machine?Jun 18 01:22
ThistleWebpaid for by the patent holderJun 18 01:23
fewaThistleWeb, no, bad patents shouldnt be issued in the first placeJun 18 01:23
oiaohmMS did make a processor that could run .net bytecode directly fewaJun 18 01:23
ThistleWebfewa yes we can all travel in time can't weJun 18 01:23
fewaoiaohm, that does mean the _bytecode_ transforms particular states of beingJun 18 01:23
fewaonly the processorJun 18 01:24
ThistleWebwe can only deal with what we have nowJun 18 01:24
fewatwo differnt thing, two differnt patent claimsJun 18 01:24
ThistleWebwhich is a lot of bad patents and a lot of corporations who will seek to use them as a business modelJun 18 01:24
fewayesJun 18 01:24
oiaohmIt make the instructins in the bytecode patentable the same way x86 instructions are fewa.Jun 18 01:24
fewaI dont see that as fallowing the new patent testJun 18 01:25
fewaand the x86 rulings were not under the new testJun 18 01:25
fewathe hardware that implaments the bytecode can be patented, the ways of making that hardware, but not numbersJun 18 01:25
oiaohmIts also like the byte code in truetype for hinting also is not effected by bilskiJun 18 01:25
fewanumbers cany be patented for the same reason words cant be patentedJun 18 01:25
fewaits absurdJun 18 01:25
fewaill patent the next book i writeJun 18 01:26
fewaJRR tolkein will patent the elvish language in the LOTRJun 18 01:26
ThistleWebnot without the letter "i" which I wonJun 18 01:26
ThistleWebown*Jun 18 01:26
oiaohmBasically it takes it from a software patent to a hardware patent.Jun 18 01:26
ThistleWebI'm making a sneaky bid for all the vowelsJun 18 01:26
oiaohmSo out of the range of the bilski ruling.Jun 18 01:26
DaemonMDV_Hicham_: I really didn't like OpenSuse last time I used itJun 18 01:26
fewaoiaohm, can you patent a book, can you patent your new constructed language?Jun 18 01:27
ThistleWeba complete set will make it very difficult not to infringeJun 18 01:27
DaemonMDVMandriva has several features I like that Suse doesn't anywayJun 18 01:27
oiaohmYou can patent the internals of every function in an hardware instruction set.Jun 18 01:28
fewaCan you patent a word. I hereby coin the word absocrapalicious, and since people who sayy it may transmorm themselves into an indecency charge by the FCC, i may patent that wordJun 18 01:28
oiaohmDue to past ruling over x86.Jun 18 01:28
DaemonMDVI dunno, their Build Service could probably fill in most of what I wantJun 18 01:28
ThistleWebtechnical point, but I doubt JRR Tolkien will be patenting anything, unless they have some form of communication from the afterlifeJun 18 01:28
fewaoiaohm, that ruling was made under the State Street testJun 18 01:28
oiaohmMS may have a case.Jun 18 01:28
DaemonMDVdoes using build service break your ability to upgrade to the next release of Suse?Jun 18 01:28
_Hicham_not that I know ofJun 18 01:29
oiaohmIt may be solid problem is we don't know until it hits court fewaJun 18 01:29
_Hicham_what was the version of openSUSE u tested DaemonMDV?Jun 18 01:29
fewaoiaohm, agreedJun 18 01:29
DaemonMDV_Hicham_: Are the yon kernel 2.6.29?Jun 18 01:29
_Hicham_noJun 18 01:29
fewabut Patenting bytecode is the same as patenting a language, a means of comunication, its absurd, its equilivent to patenting the english languageJun 18 01:29
DaemonMDV11.1 right after it came outJun 18 01:29
_Hicham_on kernel 2.6.30Jun 18 01:29
DaemonMDVwasn't horrible but there's betterJun 18 01:29
fewaso only i can speak with american english, and everybody else must use british spellingsJun 18 01:30
oiaohmThe prior x86 case allowing it cause the problem.Jun 18 01:30
fewaor they will violate my patentJun 18 01:30
_Hicham_DaemonMDV : this is the most responsive distro I have used till nowJun 18 01:30
oiaohmIt would be a nice prior case to break.Jun 18 01:30
DaemonMDVyeah, but Banshee sucks assJun 18 01:30
oiaohmIt would open up the processor market.Jun 18 01:30
fewaIts just absurdJun 18 01:30
DaemonMDVRhythmbox is the only one that can reliably talk to my playerJun 18 01:30
oiaohmI know its absurd.Jun 18 01:30
fewaAPIs and ISAs are not patentable, the implamentations of those instruction sets may beJun 18 01:30
oiaohmLot of things are absurd in law.Jun 18 01:31
oiaohmHistory is a important part of it.Jun 18 01:31
fewaand Integrated circuits dont need 3 overlapping sui generis rightsJun 18 01:31
fewaits absurdJun 18 01:31
ThistleWebbblJun 18 01:32
oiaohmIf you could not patent bytecodes we would have better font hinting.Jun 18 01:32
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oiaohmwith freetype.Jun 18 01:32
yuhongI know.Jun 18 01:32
oiaohmThere are lot of things screwed up by bytecodes being patentable.Jun 18 01:32
oiaohmIt will take a completely differnet case to undo that.Jun 18 01:33
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oiaohmC# it self due to bliski cannot be simply patented.Jun 18 01:34
oiaohmIts the back end bit of .net is where the trouble is.Jun 18 01:34
DaemonMDV_Hicham_: Why are you so crazy about Suse all of a sudden?Jun 18 01:35
DaemonMDV:PJun 18 01:35
DaemonMDVeven I thought it was pretty slow and disgustingJun 18 01:36
oiaohmBit like you and different audio encodings DaemonMDVJun 18 01:36
DaemonMDVmeh, Suse is like a poor man's Windows 2000Jun 18 01:36
DaemonMDVit what it felt likeJun 18 01:36
oiaohmHe has distribution change nature.Jun 18 01:36
DaemonMDVthey even got the color paletteJun 18 01:37
oiaohmGive it a month he will like something else.Jun 18 01:37
DaemonMDVI've heard Suse KDE isn't Mono-infectedJun 18 01:37
DaemonMDVwhich is odd seeing as how Novell is pushing thatJun 18 01:37
oiaohmNot really.Jun 18 01:38
oiaohmParticularly when novell is having trouble finding out the full legal status of mono.Jun 18 01:38
oiaohmAnd just is not telling anyone.Jun 18 01:38
DaemonMDVit'll be funny if even they ditch itJun 18 01:38
oiaohmNovell is a evil company.Jun 18 01:38
oiaohmThrew out history they have used any means to destroy the competition.Jun 18 01:39
oiaohmSCO legal trouble started with Novell.Jun 18 01:39
oiaohmThen Novell plays white knight to the problem they started.Jun 18 01:40
oiaohmSo looking good.Jun 18 01:40
DaemonMDVmy dad likes SuseJun 18 01:40
DaemonMDVjust from being used to it at work I guessJun 18 01:40
oiaohmSo I would not put it out of Novell playing card to try to get every other distribution tainted and have theres clean.Jun 18 01:41
DaemonMDVtheirs isn't cleanJun 18 01:42
oiaohmAt the moment it is.Jun 18 01:43
oiaohmThey have the legal coverage.Jun 18 01:43
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oiaohmNovell patent deal was 2006 + 5 years means it drops out in 2011.Jun 18 01:44
taconeto be renewed in 2012Jun 18 01:44
taconeif the chooseJun 18 01:44
tacone*theyJun 18 01:44
oiaohmCannot be renewed without alteration and stay on the right side of GPLv3Jun 18 01:45
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oiaohmBasically Novell is snookered.Jun 18 01:46
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taconeoiaohm: why ?Jun 18 01:55
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the_mad_hatterEveningJun 18 01:56
the_mad_hatterRoy, FYI, I've converting two Power PC Macs to Linux this weekend <G>.Jun 18 01:56
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oiaohmBecause renewing is still a new agreement taconeJun 18 01:57
taconethat doesn't mean they can't renew the very same agreementJun 18 01:57
taconeeven if I doubt they will :)Jun 18 01:57
oiaohmIf they renew that blocks them from using gplv3Jun 18 01:58
oiaohmThat includes samba.Jun 18 01:58
the_mad_hatterheh.Jun 18 01:58
the_mad_hatterApple's worst mistake was deciding not to use GPLV3 softwareJun 18 01:58
the_mad_hatterWhen it became public that they wouldn't use GPLV3 software, it became clear that Apple management is out to lunch.Jun 18 01:59
the_mad_hatterDo either of you rate the articles?Jun 18 02:00
oiaohmI don't.Jun 18 02:01
the_mad_hatterWell I've notices a correlationJun 18 02:01
the_mad_hatterWhenever Roy publishes something hot, and IRC gets a lot of trolls, the article ratings drop.Jun 18 02:02
DaemonMDVis Ubuntu Karmic just not that buggy?Jun 18 02:07
DaemonMDVor are there just less bugs listed?Jun 18 02:07
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DaemonMDVhttp://libmtp.sourceforge.net/history.phpJun 18 02:10
DaemonMDVMicrosoft sponsors libmtp with a ZuneJun 18 02:10
taconeoiaohm:  "If they renew that blocks them from using gplv3"Jun 18 02:19
taconeoiaohm: they already don't use gpl3Jun 18 02:19
taconehttp://www.xstore.co.za/wordpress/?p=417Jun 18 02:21
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taconesolangs compiles on ubuntu :)Jun 18 02:32
the_mad_hatterYes, they are locking themselves out of the best available software.Jun 18 02:33
the_mad_hatterAnyway, have to run. Good night.Jun 18 02:34
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DaemonMDV"Oddly enough this would probably be useless to a Windows user since Windows Media Player has absolutely no concept of what MP4 audio is, and it would probably not work for Mac users (at least very well) since iTunes doesn't work with MTP."Jun 18 02:55
DaemonMDV-meJun 18 02:55
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 02:55
DaemonMDVso Windows users get stuck using WMA or MP3Jun 18 02:59
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DaemonMDVbut oddly Linux can be made to transfer MP4 to the player properly with minimal effortJun 18 03:00
taconehttp://ubuntulinuxhelp.com/mono-discussion-with-a-developer/#more-1612Jun 18 03:00
*DaemonMDV is singing along with DisturbedJun 18 03:04
DaemonMDVMeaning of LifeJun 18 03:04
DaemonMDVfunJun 18 03:04
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_Hicham_really openSUSE 11.2 will be a great releaseJun 18 03:29
DaemonMDVhehJun 18 03:42
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DaemonMDVUbuntu is like a lampreyJun 18 05:02
DaemonMDVattaching itself to everyone elses ideas and services and trying to siphon off some of the moneyJun 18 05:02
DaemonMDVhttp://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4171Jun 18 05:03
DaemonMDV"Ubuntu Karma will also integrate UCSB’s Eucalyptus software"Jun 18 05:03
DaemonMDV"embracing the APIs of Amazon EC2"Jun 18 05:03
DaemonMDV"We’ll consider options like Red Hat’s Plymouth"Jun 18 05:04
DaemonMDVthe goal isn't a free/open source OSJun 18 05:04
DaemonMDVit's to turn your computer into a kiosk for their servicesJun 18 05:05
DaemonMDVof course Microsoft and Apple have been moving this direction for yearsJun 18 05:05
twitterOh God, the M$ liars are at it again.  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/microsoftpri0/2009351819_google_apps_software_disables_microsoft_outlook_fe.htmlJun 18 05:06
twitterBreak Windows and blame the competition.  How many times does that kind of thing have to be presented in court before they give up?Jun 18 05:07
DaemonMDVMicrosoft has done a better job than Apple in keeping their media formats closed thoughJun 18 05:07
DaemonMDVApple tried to use a standard format and control where the files ended up with a DRM scheme that only worked on their hardwareJun 18 05:08
TLintonwhere's the lie?Jun 18 05:08
TLintonGoogle confirms it's true and they're fixing itJun 18 05:08
DaemonMDVMicrosoft just made an entirely closed source set of formatsJun 18 05:08
DaemonMDVand then their own DRM schemeJun 18 05:08
TLintonit says right there on the articleJun 18 05:08
TLintondid you read it?Jun 18 05:08
twitterI'm applying M$'s past behavior to what I'm reading now.Jun 18 05:08
twitterM$ booby traps it's stuff all the time.  DRDoS, OS/2, ODF, the only thing all of these "broken" things have in common was M$.Jun 18 05:09
DaemonMDVdon't worry about how it works or where your files will be allowed to playJun 18 05:09
TLintonhttp://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2009/06/whats-different-with-google-apps-sync.htmlJun 18 05:09
DaemonMDVjust convert your CDs into it and buy more albums in it from usJun 18 05:09
DaemonMDVyesJun 18 05:09
DaemonMDVwe love youJun 18 05:09
TLintonpast behavior... ?Jun 18 05:09
TLintondid you read the google blog?Jun 18 05:09
TLintonDeamon: I was able to mount my sansa under slack 12Jun 18 05:10
TLintonworks fineJun 18 05:10
TLintonremember we were talking about thatJun 18 05:10
twitterI'm reading the blog now.  Perhaps you can explain how the problem is Google's fault, which is what the M$ friendly article says.Jun 18 05:10
twitterWhich is the lie.Jun 18 05:11
TLintontwitter: where does it say that it's google's faultJun 18 05:11
DaemonMDVTLinton: A View?Jun 18 05:11
twitter" Microsoft says Google software disables some features in Outlook, the company's e-mail and calendar software."Jun 18 05:11
DaemonMDVor what model then?Jun 18 05:11
TLintonDaemon: It's the 4GB modelJun 18 05:11
TLintoni forget the actual product nameJun 18 05:11
TLintonSANSA SanDisk?Jun 18 05:12
twitterThe truth is that some plugins don't work with Google's.Jun 18 05:12
DaemonMDVhmmm, I have the 8 gig one with a 16 gig Micro SDHC cardJun 18 05:12
TLintonthat's what it says behindJun 18 05:12
DaemonMDV:)Jun 18 05:12
TLintonyeah, mine has the slot tooJun 18 05:12
TLintontwitter: the truth is Google's plugins don't work with outlookJun 18 05:12
DaemonMDV16 gigs can be had for as little as $45Jun 18 05:12
DaemonMDVso it's not a bad deal all toldJun 18 05:12
twitterReally, TLinton.  Where did you read that?Jun 18 05:13
TLinton...on the article you linked to?Jun 18 05:13
twitterExplain how, please.Jun 18 05:13
DaemonMDVthe first gen MP3 players cost over $200 and had 128 MEGS of internal storage :DJun 18 05:13
TLintonread the article you linked toJun 18 05:13
TLintonYOU LINKED TO ITJun 18 05:13
twitterThe article was a lie.Jun 18 05:13
TLintonhow do you know that?Jun 18 05:14
twitterthat is why I linked to it and explained the lie.Jun 18 05:14
TLintonit says in the article that GApps affected outlook's functionalityJun 18 05:14
TLintonit says the Outlook team complained to GoogleJun 18 05:14
TLintonon a google blog, it says they're fixing the issueJun 18 05:14
DaemonMDVhow's come it is that all the stuff that makes the Top 100 is the stuff you couldn't pay me to download?Jun 18 05:14
DaemonMDV:)Jun 18 05:14
TLintonplease point out the lieJun 18 05:14
twitterGoogle explained that not all the world's non free plugins work together.  This is a typical non free software problem.Jun 18 05:15
twitterGoogle's plugin worked with Outlook as well as any of the others.Jun 18 05:15
twitterSaying Google broke Outlook is a lie.Jun 18 05:15
twitterI think that should be clear enough.Jun 18 05:15
TLinton"If you want to re-enable Windows Desktop Search for your Outlook data files"Jun 18 05:16
TLinton"you can uninstall Google Apps Sync. If you are using Google Apps Sync"Jun 18 05:16
TLintonwhy would they need to uninstall a Google thing to make outlook workJun 18 05:16
TLintonif it wasn't google's faultJun 18 05:16
TLintonsince it disables the search thingJun 18 05:16
TLintonwhich is the problemJun 18 05:16
TLintonthis is what the original article says:Jun 18 05:17
TLinton"Microsoft developers said the Google Apps Sync, a plug-in, disables the search function in Outlook, making it difficult to search through the 1,000 e-mails in your inbox."Jun 18 05:17
twitterProbably because Windows Desktop Search is broken if it can't coexist with something simple like an email/contact/calender sync.Jun 18 05:17
TLintonthat's what the Google blog says they're addressingJun 18 05:17
TLintonwhere is anyone lying?Jun 18 05:17
twitterGoogle's blog says something different.Jun 18 05:17
twitterThe Seattle Press and M$ have taken a booby trap and spun it into something it's not.  This is typical M$ behavior.  Most people call it lying.Jun 18 05:18
TLintongoogle's blog says exactly what it saysJun 18 05:18
twitterI don't think so.Jun 18 05:18
TLinton"booby trap"?Jun 18 05:18
TLintonand who are most people?Jun 18 05:19
TLintoni'm trying to understand what you're sayingJun 18 05:19
DaemonMDVBanshee jsut seems to corrupt you database and forget to transfer about half the stuff it told you it didJun 18 05:19
TLintondo you discard the article you linked to because of who wrote it?Jun 18 05:19
DaemonMDVif it actually managed to mount it in the first place without crashingJun 18 05:19
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 05:19
twitterIf you want to understand what I said, try reading what I said again.Jun 18 05:19
TLintonno need, i'm reading the articles you linked toJun 18 05:19
twitterI pointed to the article as an example of a lie.Jun 18 05:20
TLintonwhat lie?Jun 18 05:20
TLintonwhere is the lie?Jun 18 05:20
TLintonthe google blog confirms what the first article saysJun 18 05:20
TLintonthat google disabled the search functionJun 18 05:20
TLintonwhich affects outlook in the way mentioned in the first articleJun 18 05:20
twitterI have explained the problem well enough and will now ignore you.  :)Jun 18 05:20
TLintonyes, you sure didJun 18 05:21
TLintonohJun 18 05:21
TLintonsomeone asked me how to enable slax packages so that they show up on next bootJun 18 05:22
TLintoni think it was ThistleWeb?Jun 18 05:22
TLintonnot sureJun 18 05:22
TLintonit turns out that you don't just "activate" themJun 18 05:22
TLintonyou need to download the .lzm fileJun 18 05:22
TLintonfor the moduleJun 18 05:22
twitterM$ kills off another service, "Soapbox" http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=19869Jun 18 05:22
TLintonand save it under /mnt/sdb1/slax/modulesJun 18 05:23
twitterhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/17/microsoft_takes_hatchet_to_soapbox/Jun 18 05:23
TLintongod that "M$" thing is annoyingJun 18 05:23
TLintonit's like hearing teenagersJun 18 05:23
TLintonanywayJun 18 05:23
TLintononce you save the module to the directoryJun 18 05:23
TLintonit will be activated when slax boots off the usb driveJun 18 05:23
TLintonof course this makes boot slowerJun 18 05:24
TLintonbut for a few "critical" things it's okJun 18 05:24
TLintonvery cool actuallyJun 18 05:24
TLintoni still think the online activation is a huge security holeJun 18 05:25
twitterM$ advertising model falls to click fraud, http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348894,00.aspJun 18 05:25
twitterThis is why algorithm based placement rather than highest bidder is a better model.Jun 18 05:25
twitterAs usual, M$ uses criminal activity as an excuse to expand their own power.Jun 18 05:27
TLintonspeaking of google, i saw they were losing a lot of money on youtubeJun 18 05:28
TLintonhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31414965/ns/business-us_business/Jun 18 05:28
TLintonnot as much as they originally saidJun 18 05:28
TLintonbut that's a lot of money stillJun 18 05:28
TLintoni thought they were going to add ads to all the videosJun 18 05:28
twitterM$'s complaints against these fraudsters are hypocritical, given M$'s court proven astroturfing record.Jun 18 05:28
TLintonthe "partner" videos, at leastJun 18 05:28
TLintoni wasn't looking forward to thatJun 18 05:28
TLintonM$'$ complaint$ again$t the$e fraud$ter$ are hypocritical, given M$'$ court proven a$troturfing record.Jun 18 05:29
TLintonhahaJun 18 05:29
TLintoncouldn't help myself :)Jun 18 05:29
TLintonmy$elfJun 18 05:29
TLintonhahaJun 18 05:29
TLintonok, enoughJun 18 05:30
twitter"Microsoft’s Internet Safety Enforcement team" Did they get that name from their Chinese division?Jun 18 05:30
TLinton"Micro$oft$ Internet $afety Enforcement team" Did they get that name from their Chine$e divi$ion?Jun 18 05:30
TLintonoh godJun 18 05:31
TLintonhmmJun 18 05:31
TLintonthe gus on the slax forums lied to meJun 18 05:31
TLinton*guysJun 18 05:31
TLintonor maybe i didn't ask the right questionJun 18 05:32
TLintonprobably the latterJun 18 05:32
twitterM$'s manipulation of news organization and Google search results is Titanic.  How much more blatant can you be with fraud than to purchase dozens of newspapers and a broadcasting network?Jun 18 05:32
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TLintonM$'$ manipulation of new$ organization and Google $earch re$ult$ i$ Titanic.  How much more blatant can you be with fraud than to purcha$e dozen$ of new$paper$ and a broadca$ting network?Jun 18 05:32
TLinton...Jun 18 05:32
TLintonanywayJun 18 05:32
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TLintonthe livecd.sgn file on the live fs root is DANGEROUSJun 18 05:33
TLintonsighJun 18 05:33
TLintonDANGEROU$Jun 18 05:33
TLintonunsquashfsJun 18 05:34
twitter'We asked both Google and Yahoo! about possible legal efforts to battle click fraud, and both declined to comment." <- from the register.  I'm sure they did decline.Jun 18 05:34
TLintonlordyJun 18 05:34
TLinton'We a$ked both Google and Yahoo! about po$$ible legal effort$ to battle click fraud, and both declined to comment." <- from the regi$ter.  I'm $ure they did decline.Jun 18 05:34
TLintonoh here's mksquashfsJun 18 05:35
TLintonokJun 18 05:35
TLintonlet's seeJun 18 05:35
TLintonAHA!Jun 18 05:35
TLintondeb2lzmJun 18 05:36
TLintonsupposedly this convers a .deb package into a slack .lzmJun 18 05:36
TLintonlet's seeJun 18 05:36
TLintonoh noJun 18 05:36
TLintonit just unpacks?Jun 18 05:36
TLintonit says i need dpkgJun 18 05:37
TLintonewJun 18 05:37
TLintonoh, ok: http://www.slax.org/modules.php?action=detail&id=409Jun 18 05:37
TLintondpkg for slaxJun 18 05:37
TLintonwhaddya knowJun 18 05:37
TLintonlet's tryJun 18 05:38
TLintonlooks like deb2lzm is jus a wrapper for dpkgJun 18 05:39
TLinton*justJun 18 05:39
TLintondeb2lzm -hJun 18 05:39
TLintonall sorts of fun at the end, no .deb thereJun 18 05:39
TLintonsighJun 18 05:46
TLintonneed to try something simple firstJun 18 05:46
TLintonwhere does one get a .deb?Jun 18 05:46
TLintonhahaJun 18 05:46
twitterApple threatening to break Pre iTunes sync?  http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10266423-1.htmlJun 18 05:46
TLintonthat's apt's jobJun 18 05:46
TLintonlet's seeJun 18 05:46
TLinton$ync?Jun 18 05:47
twitterPalm should have worked with free software music players instead!Jun 18 05:47
TLinton$oftware!Jun 18 05:47
TLintonok, let's find a debJun 18 05:47
TLintonmaybe a udeb, that will be simplerJun 18 05:48
twitterunmentioned was Pre's ability to sync with WMP, not that anyone would want to sync with the worst media player around.Jun 18 05:48
TLintonunmentioned wa$ Pre'$ ability to $ync with WMP, not that anyone would want to $ync with the wor$t media player aroundJun 18 05:49
TLintonwait, i found oneJun 18 05:49
twitterWMP sync ... Outlook not good, http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=238608Jun 18 05:49
TLintonuh, i wonder if slax has arJun 18 05:50
TLintonit was missing dos2unixJun 18 05:50
TLintonYESJun 18 05:50
TLintonwe have liftoffJun 18 05:50
twitterAs an Outlook user, I can say that an implied lie in the Google/M$ push is that Outlook is a PIM worth using.  It's about the worst thing you can use for the purpose.  No threading, awful database format, messages are next to impossible to find and all sorts of rude formats and habits are encouraged.Jun 18 05:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Daydreaming: What would it look like if Red Hat buys Novell....?Jun 18 05:52
twitterGmail's web interface is better than Outlook by far.Jun 18 05:52
Omar87twitter: LOL! What else would you expect from M$? :DJun 18 05:53
TLintonoh roflJun 18 05:53
twitterI don't know.  They seem to be getting worse, not better.Jun 18 05:53
TLintontwitter is angry google broke outlookJun 18 05:53
TLintonbut google is "pushing it"Jun 18 05:53
TLintonevenJun 18 05:53
Omar87twitter: The problem is that, M$ is really good at brainwashing.Jun 18 05:53
TLintonOmar: a questionJun 18 05:54
Omar87TLinton: Sure, go ahead.Jun 18 05:54
TLintonwhy do you write it "M$"?Jun 18 05:54
Omar87TLinton: Because this is what M$ is all about.Jun 18 05:54
TLintonseriously, didn't that go out of fashion in the 90s?Jun 18 05:54
TLintonwe used to call it Compu$erve tooJun 18 05:54
TLintonexcept now whenever i see someone doing the M$ thing i just think whatever they're saying probably has no valueJun 18 05:55
Omar87TLinton: Yeah, but old fashion does come back to life ya know.Jun 18 05:55
TLintonbecause they need to call attention to themselves that wayJun 18 05:55
twitterI see that nothing of value was lost ignoring TLinton.Jun 18 05:55
TLintonit just reeks amateur i guessJun 18 05:56
TLintonamateur hourJun 18 05:56
TLinton"Plord cars suck. I don't like Plord cars, and i would never buy a Plord car"Jun 18 05:56
twitter*twitter ignores TLinton again and gets back to work.Jun 18 05:57
TLinton"M$ Windowze scares me"Jun 18 05:57
TLintontwitter is cuteJun 18 05:57
TLintonhe's like a kid that talks to himself in the playpenJun 18 05:57
*Omar87 agrees with twitter. And is doing the same.Jun 18 05:57
TLintonbecause everyone thinks he's annoying :)Jun 18 05:57
twitter:)Jun 18 05:58
TLintonok, back to deb and arJun 18 05:58
twitterThey can pollute this place and Roy can publish it all, but I don't have to listen to it.Jun 18 05:58
twitterM$ press continues to promote M$'s decision engine.Jun 18 05:59
TLintonThey can pollute thi$ place and Roy can publi$h it all, but I don't have to li$ten to itJun 18 05:59
TLintoni'm gonna get myself kickedJun 18 05:59
TLintonmy$elfJun 18 05:59
TLintonoyJun 18 05:59
twitterno need to point to articles with rigged statistics, just wait a few months for the inevitable failure of yet another M$ online effortJun 18 05:59
TLintonhere we go, a debJun 18 06:00
Omar87TLinton: That would be highly appreciated.. :)Jun 18 06:00
TLintonno need to point to article$ with rigged $tati$tic$, ju$t wait a few month$ for the inevitable failure of yet another M$ online effortJun 18 06:00
TLintonno, i knowJun 18 06:00
TLinton#slax is damn deadJun 18 06:00
TLintonpeople who ignore other people because they can't hold an argument together are sadJun 18 06:01
TLintonit's like an awkward moment in a Seth Rogen movieJun 18 06:02
Omar87TLinton: And you call criticizing the use of the M$ thing an argument?? Hilarious. :DJun 18 06:03
twitterEd Bott gets his software in "a plain brown wrapper"Jun 18 06:03
TLintonOmar: noJun 18 06:03
twitterhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1061Jun 18 06:03
TLintoni was remarking about twitter's earlier maneuverJun 18 06:03
TLintonyou can call microsoft however you want, don't worry about me :)Jun 18 06:03
TLintonagrep is non-free??Jun 18 06:04
TLintoni didn't know thatJun 18 06:04
twittera porn reference in an article about touch screens, ewwww!Jun 18 06:04
TLintonscreen$Jun 18 06:04
TLintonok, agrep will doJun 18 06:04
TLintonhahaJun 18 06:05
TLintonfreshmeat added "tweet this" to their project pagesJun 18 06:05
TLintonweirdJun 18 06:05
TLintonagrep_4.17-5_i386.debJun 18 06:06
TLintonfrom lennyJun 18 06:06
Omar87Wow! Freshmeat have redesigned their website! I just found out about it. :)Jun 18 06:07
twitterhmm, thanks for the tip.Jun 18 06:07
twitterhere's an interesting search http://news.google.com/news?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=microsoft+MOUJun 18 06:08
TLintonVICTORYJun 18 06:08
TLintonit worksJun 18 06:08
TLintongenerated agrep.lzmJun 18 06:08
TLintonand activated itJun 18 06:09
TLintonvery coolJun 18 06:09
TLintonof course dependencies are going to be heck without aptJun 18 06:09
TLintonhell, evenJun 18 06:09
TLintonOmar87: I hadn't seen freshmeat in a while, I didn't know they ha redesigned it eitherJun 18 06:10
TLintonit looks very coolJun 18 06:10
twitterTurns up corruption in Sri Lanka, Ghana, China and elsewhere.Jun 18 06:10
Omar87TLinton: Yeah, it does. :)Jun 18 06:10
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Carl_Rover2k12hello?Jun 18 06:17
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twitterMassa takes on Time Warner and other cable monopolies in the US http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348914,00.aspJun 18 06:17
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Carl_Rover2k12helloJun 18 06:18
TLintonwell so far so goodJun 18 06:19
TLintonhello Carl_Rover2k12Jun 18 06:19
twitterIt's too bad the FCC has been so toothless and complacent.  They have been part of the problem and I'm not sure they will become part of the solution.Jun 18 06:19
TLinton$olution?Jun 18 06:19
twitter->  "Massa, whose district is in upstate New York, first got involved in this issue when a group of Rochester-based doctors called him to complain that usage-based caps would triple the price of their Internet service."Jun 18 06:19
TLintondeb2lzm converted a really big .debJun 18 06:20
TLintonflawlesslyJun 18 06:20
twitterHa ha, " Massa said he consulted industry experts like Microsoft and Google when crafting his bill. A spokeswoman from Microsoft's D.C. office had no record of a meeting with Massa's office. "Jun 18 06:21
TLintonma$$a is a funny guyJun 18 06:23
TLintonolJun 18 06:23
TLinton*lolJun 18 06:23
TLintonwellJun 18 06:23
TLintonlooks like no clear sailing yetJun 18 06:23
TLintonhmmmJun 18 06:23
TLintoni wonder if i can reverse the processJun 18 06:23
twitterWhat Mississippi got by suing M$, M$ dumps on Virginia and Community colleges, http://redmondmag.com/articles/2009/06/16/microsoft-offers-free-training-to-virginians.aspxJun 18 06:23
twitter->"The company is offering 5,000 vouchers for online training, 5,000 vouchers for online testing and 1,250 vouchers for more advanced-level training. Each training voucher can be used at a community college for either a free class to boost general computer skills or training on one of the programs in Microsoft Office Suite, such as PowerPoint, Excel or Word."Jun 18 06:24
twitterWhat a wonderful education!Jun 18 06:24
TLinton$acre bleuJun 18 06:24
TLintonhey, i would take free trainingJun 18 06:25
TLintonif i had any use for itJun 18 06:25
TLintonTANSTAAFLJun 18 06:25
TLintonhahaJun 18 06:25
twitter"Elevate America" ->   "Virginia is the second state to partner with Microsoft on Elevate  America; Washington was the first"Jun 18 06:25
twitterI wonder why Washington was the first to take the bait?Jun 18 06:26
TLintonoh wait, it's just dpkg complaining the dir is not emptyJun 18 06:26
TLintonduh, of courseJun 18 06:26
TLintonwell, that's where -ar- comes inJun 18 06:27
TLintontwitter: you remind me of a guy that used to post on comp.unix many years agoJun 18 06:27
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: does anyone have an opinion on what is going on in Iran. If anyone here is interested in helping by setting up a proxy take a look at the posts in this article: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/06/17/2017226/The-State-of-Irans-Ongoing-Netwar?art_pos=11Jun 18 06:27
Carl_Rover2k12and more specifically here: http://blog.austinheap.com.nyud.net:8080/Jun 18 06:27
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twitterI also wonder what strings are attached.  When M$ gives computers to libraries, for example, they limit what software the library may run.  I know this from talking to a librarian who was grateful to accept such chains.Jun 18 06:27
TLintonyes, i saw thatJun 18 06:27
TLintoni need to look at it and see if i can helpJun 18 06:28
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TLintonCarl_Rover2k12, yesJun 18 06:28
Carl_Rover2k12my ISP reset my modem to thwart the revolution! :PJun 18 06:28
twitterThe same slightly edited press release as above shows up here too http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/state_regional/article/virginia_partners_with_microsoft_for_job_training/38622/Jun 18 06:28
TLintonhahaJun 18 06:28
Carl_Rover2k12btw here is a guide how to setup a proxy for Iranian dissidents to use: http://blog.austinheap.com.nyud.net:8080/Jun 18 06:29
*TLinton lookingJun 18 06:29
twitter->"  The initiative is expected to provide up to 1 million vouchers nationwide for Microsoft e-Learning courses and select Microsoft certification exams at no or low cost to recipients. The program is a part of Microsoft’s overall efforts to provide technology training for up to 2 million people during the next three years."Jun 18 06:29
twitterM$, the choice of those who have no choice.Jun 18 06:30
TLintoni'm downloading the vmware image off torrentJun 18 06:30
TLintoni can leave it up all night if i get it runningJun 18 06:30
TLintonno problemJun 18 06:30
TLintoni'll email this guyJun 18 06:30
TLintonCarl_Rover2k12, thanks for sharing thisJun 18 06:31
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: np, I just want to show to those who are interested in helping howJun 18 06:31
Carl_Rover2k12I figure this is the right community on IRC to startJun 18 06:31
TLintonthe vmware image solution is geniusJun 18 06:31
TLintonat least if you have it already installedJun 18 06:32
TLintoni hope cox doesn't start blocking stuff all of the suddenJun 18 06:32
TLintoncox sucksJun 18 06:32
TLintonto say the leastJun 18 06:32
TLintonbut at least they only block ports 80 and 25Jun 18 06:32
TLintoni remember my SMTP server stopped working one dayJun 18 06:33
TLintontook me a while to figure out it was cox's faultJun 18 06:33
TLintonfighting the spammers and all thatJun 18 06:33
TLinton"Johnny, just block outbound 25 and we'll be ok"Jun 18 06:33
TLinton"what the hell"Jun 18 06:33
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: remember to ensure to configure the stats so it blocks Iran government IPs and all headers are turned offJun 18 06:34
TLintonyepJun 18 06:34
twitterSteve Ballmer gives advice to Bankrupt automobile companies.  http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20090617/FREE/906179957#Jun 18 06:34
TLintongotta put my SuperDuper Unix Expertise to good use at some point :)Jun 18 06:34
twitterM$ is desperate to keep their finger in US education.Jun 18 06:35
TLintontwitter is helping the iraniansJun 18 06:35
TLintoni can feel itJun 18 06:35
TLintonhahaJun 18 06:35
TLintonok, image downloaded. that was fast-ishJun 18 06:35
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: perhaps you can run an MD5 checkup to ensure its not corrupt or something worse :PJun 18 06:36
Carl_Rover2k12checksum I meanJun 18 06:36
twitterSchools are not only a lucrative market for them, it is their first and best brainwash for their future customers.Jun 18 06:36
fewaget the schools to teach kids in their productsJun 18 06:37
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: hello, they have done that for years by muscle out Macs for cheaper Dells and HPsJun 18 06:37
Carl_Rover2k12twitter: then school heads are ignorant to think that there is nothing more relevant in computing than using the M$ OS and software with its proprietary standards. Is it any wonder many colleges teaching game design go over DirectX and no OpenGL?Jun 18 06:38
twitterIck, a M$ hardware provider http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090615005351&newsLang=enJun 18 06:39
twitterIt's funny how their hardware stats match up with those of free software providers.Jun 18 06:39
twitter10 lb vrs 1 lbJun 18 06:39
twitter$1,000 vrs $200Jun 18 06:40
twitter24 watts vrs 4 wattsJun 18 06:40
twitterand so on and so forth.Jun 18 06:40
TLintonCarl_Rover2k12, i didn't see a checksum for the image on that web pageJun 18 06:40
TLintondo you have it?Jun 18 06:40
TLintonnot that it's a big deal after all it's a virtual imageJun 18 06:41
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: unfortunately no, I just found out about this minutes before to be honestJun 18 06:41
TLintonokJun 18 06:41
TLintonwe'll run the gauntletJun 18 06:41
TLintonit's a virtual machine anywayJun 18 06:41
TLintonchrootJun 18 06:41
TLintonCarl_Rover2k12, are you iranian or have family or friends over there?Jun 18 06:42
twitterThe people in Mississippi start to think hard about software costs.  http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/16/devils-in-details-of-mississippi-02/Jun 18 06:43
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TLintonguess notJun 18 06:43
fewa$1,000 price barrierJun 18 06:43
twitter----> "It would be hard in my district to explain how we're going to lay off a nurse in Jasper County to buy software for the tax commission," said House Appropriations chairman Johnny Stringer, D-Montrose.Jun 18 06:43
fewamaybe in 1990Jun 18 06:43
fewawtfJun 18 06:43
TLintonMi$$i$$ippiJun 18 06:43
TLintontotally had to do that oneJun 18 06:43
TLintonMi$$i$$ippiJun 18 06:43
TLintonhahahaJun 18 06:43
TLintonomgJun 18 06:43
twitterThis is exactly the kind of thought lawmakers everywhere should be having.Jun 18 06:43
TLintoni sound like my teenagerJun 18 06:43
fewa"$1,000 price barrier "Jun 18 06:43
fewaseriously lolJun 18 06:44
twitterEvery dollar spent on software is a dollar that can't be spent on government's core functions.Jun 18 06:44
fewai have never paid that much for a computerJun 18 06:44
TLintonhmmmJun 18 06:44
TLintoni wonder if i could set something like this proxy image up at workJun 18 06:44
TLintonor maybe use one of the outfacing BSD serversJun 18 06:44
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Carl_Rover2k12oopsJun 18 06:44
TLintoncan one use iptables to do something like that?Jun 18 06:45
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: like what?Jun 18 06:45
TLintonCarl_Rover2k12, i'm thinking out loudJun 18 06:45
TLintonabout setting up one of our outfacing bsd boxesJun 18 06:45
TLintonas a proxyJun 18 06:45
TLintonwe're hooked up to a sprint ocs lineJun 18 06:45
TLintonmore bandwidth that you can shake a stick atJun 18 06:46
TLintonbut can you do something like that with iptables?Jun 18 06:46
TLintoni'm not sureJun 18 06:46
TLintoni can't install anything on thereJun 18 06:46
TLintonbut i can change configurationsJun 18 06:46
TLintonso the vmware thing is outJun 18 06:46
twitterAh, thinking of the FCC .... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2348893,00.aspJun 18 06:47
TLintonbut at least there's no damn 512kb upstream limit like with coxJun 18 06:47
TLintonor whatever it is nowadaysJun 18 06:47
TLintoni don't think my boss would mind at allJun 18 06:48
TLintonon the contraryJun 18 06:48
TLintonas long as it doesn't affect anything elseJun 18 06:48
TLintoni doubt this wouldJun 18 06:48
TLintonmuch more effective than my crappy residential broadband connectionJun 18 06:48
Carl_Rover2k12ok coolJun 18 06:49
twitterOne of the companies he's worked for is under Wiki attack, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterActiveCorpJun 18 06:49
TLintoni mean there's an OC-192 coming out of that buildingJun 18 06:50
TLintoni think it's 192Jun 18 06:51
TLintonyou can look at lolcatsJun 18 06:51
TLintonor help people free themselves wit technologyJun 18 06:51
TLinton*withJun 18 06:51
twitterick, what a trashy company  Home Shopping Network, Expedia, TicketMaster.  TripAdvisor, Home Loan Center, AskJeeves, Cornerstone Brands ... all of this is real sleaze.Jun 18 06:51
TLintoni'll take the latter, thanksJun 18 06:51
TLintonsleaze, lolJun 18 06:51
TLintonAskJeeves? Expedia?Jun 18 06:51
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: there also seems to be a proxy program that is being used for OSX called Squid, I am sure it can also work with Linux if recompiledJun 18 06:51
TLintoni know squidJun 18 06:52
TLintonbut we don't use itJun 18 06:52
TLintonit's really a caching proxyJun 18 06:52
TLintonvery useful for high-traffic sitesJun 18 06:52
twitter  Julius Genachowski, President Obama's pick for FCC chairman, told the Senate Commerce Committee held positions there between 1993 and 1997 - OK, that's before the above sleeze but still .... hmmm.Jun 18 06:52
TLintoni think it can be used as a reverse proxy tooJun 18 06:53
TLintonand it originated on linux, not os xJun 18 06:53
TLintonso whatever they're running on os x has to be adapted from the linux or bsd versionJun 18 06:53
twitterYeah, it's only in 1997 that IAC gets busy buyingJun 18 06:53
TLintonadapted = portedJun 18 06:54
TLintonthe problem with squid thoughJun 18 06:54
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: true, I heard that fax machines brought down Communism in Eastern EuropeJun 18 06:54
TLintoni don't doubt thatJun 18 06:54
TLintononce people can communicate freely, it's all over for any fascist stateJun 18 06:54
TLintongame over man, game overJun 18 06:54
TLintonknowledge is strength and freedomJun 18 06:55
twitterWe shall see how well this FCC guy does in bringing competition to broadband.  Hope he lives up to his words.Jun 18 06:55
TLintontwitter is still helping the Iranian people, i seeJun 18 06:55
TLintonhahaJun 18 06:55
TLintonok, i'm reading up on squidJun 18 06:55
TLintonmaybe i can set it up at workJun 18 06:56
TLintonthe kicker is configuring these thingsJun 18 06:56
TLintonlike iptablesJun 18 06:56
TLintonor apacheJun 18 06:56
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: there is even an channel for this on freenode called #irantechJun 18 06:56
TLintonneed a geek degree for thatJun 18 06:56
Carl_Rover2k12but there are probably suites looking at itJun 18 06:56
TLintonoh, let me join that and see what they're sayingJun 18 06:56
Carl_Rover2k12im curious toJun 18 06:57
twitterGasp,  Cambridge University honors Bill Gates.  http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_home/displayarticle.asp?id=425141Jun 18 06:57
TLintonoh, this is what i'm talking about: http://www.exstatic.org/proxybox/Jun 18 06:57
TLintonbut it's still a virtual imageJun 18 06:58
TLintoni can do that at home, no probJun 18 06:58
TLintonbut not at work on the fat lineJun 18 06:58
TLintonsquid would be ok if i convince the powers that beJun 18 06:59
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twitterTap, tap, band plays "Hail to the Thief"Jun 18 06:59
TLintonmaybe i can download the image, look at theor config settings and duplicate that on the bsd boxJun 18 06:59
TLinton*theirJun 18 06:59
TLintonthat should be esyJun 18 06:59
TLinton*easyJun 18 06:59
TLintongawdsJun 18 06:59
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: is the VMware image BSD?Jun 18 06:59
TLintonno, linuxJun 18 07:00
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: do you know which kernel?Jun 18 07:00
TLintonversion? noJun 18 07:01
TLintoni took it downJun 18 07:01
TLintonsorryJun 18 07:01
TLintoni'm going to do the squid thing mauallyJun 18 07:01
TLinton*manuallyJun 18 07:01
TLintonthen i can repro that at workJun 18 07:01
twitterZDNet blows the whistle on M$ University licensing scams and "force fed" students.  http://education.zdnet.com/?p=2648Jun 18 07:01
TLintonif there's any justice in the world i'll get that working on the dcJun 18 07:02
TLintonmother of god, even iran probably can't bring that baby downJun 18 07:02
twitter->  He underestimates the cost drastically "Most universities provide extremely inexpensive licensing of Microsoft software to students via campus license agreements.  However, once students leave the university setting, they’re stuck paying for the software themselves at full retail.  Even while they are in school, someone is bearing the licensing cost"Jun 18 07:02
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: Vmware client seems to be Linux kernel v2.6Jun 18 07:03
twitterNot only do Students pay for software twice, once at OEM and once with their school license, they also pay for staff use.Jun 18 07:03
TLintonokJun 18 07:03
TLintoni need to download the one on the other pageJun 18 07:03
TLintonoh, torJun 18 07:04
TLintonthat's overdoing it a bit :)Jun 18 07:04
TLintonwho cares if the revolutionary guards figure out my ip addressJun 18 07:05
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: Tor is pretty sluggish anywayJun 18 07:05
TLintoni knowJun 18 07:05
TLintondon't want to use thatJun 18 07:05
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twitterAt LSU, I heard people complain bitterly about M$'s $500,000 licensing agreement to provide "free" versions of Windows and Office.Jun 18 07:05
TLintonah, the other one is debianJun 18 07:06
TLinton2.6 as wellJun 18 07:06
twitterThey already had versions of the same stuff and did not want their student fees wasted on buying it again.Jun 18 07:06
TLintonziproxyJun 18 07:06
TLintondon't need that eitherJun 18 07:06
twitterThe deal only looked inexpensive compared to similar site licenses, but you have to remember that few were actually served.Jun 18 07:07
TLintonor polipo (since no tor)Jun 18 07:07
TLintonlet me look at the config hereJun 18 07:07
twitterThe system was rigged later to make it look better.Jun 18 07:07
twitterStudents were able to take copies of the software home and install it on their friend's computers.Jun 18 07:08
twitterA small number of M$ idiots could make it look like lots of students were using the software but really M$ was dumping it on clueless people elsewhere.Jun 18 07:08
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: it seems for me to stop when it states its "resuming normal boot"Jun 18 07:08
TLintonboots fine hereJun 18 07:09
TLintonbut i didn't actually start up the service scriptJun 18 07:09
twitterI met one girl who bragged that she set up her whole home town with Office 2007 through LSU's Student Dump.Jun 18 07:09
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: I wonder what is wrong with my configuration thenJun 18 07:09
TLintondunnoJun 18 07:10
TLintoni'm running vmware on ubuntu 7Jun 18 07:10
TLintoncouldn't quite get it to work on slack 12Jun 18 07:10
TLintonwhat are you running under as host?Jun 18 07:11
twitterI asked her why she would bother when you could bet Open Office legitimately without cost.  The question seemed to hurt her feelings and I was instantly sorry I asked.  M$ preys on people like that and makes them feel special in their dirty work... "pawns" and "one night stands" all over again.Jun 18 07:11
*TLinton realizes he just gave away that he has a ubuntu boxJun 18 07:11
TLintondamn :)Jun 18 07:11
TLinton"The question seemed to hurt her feelings and I was instantly sorry I asked.  M$ preys on people like that and makes them feel special in their dirty work"Jun 18 07:11
TLintonmmmkayJun 18 07:11
fewawith KVM?Jun 18 07:11
TLintonbbl, got to get the trash outJun 18 07:12
twitterNSA still reading US email without warrant http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/us/17nsa.htmlJun 18 07:16
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: you mean which OS?Jun 18 07:17
twitterI'm glad the issue surfaces as more than an election time thingJun 18 07:18
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: when I run it in Vmware it gives me a split second between choosing two configurations before immediately startingJun 18 07:20
TLintonbackJun 18 07:20
TLintonCarl_Rover2k12, no, i mean what's your host osJun 18 07:20
TLintoniow, what are you running vmware onJun 18 07:21
TLinton/usr/local/squid/etc/squid.confJun 18 07:21
TLintonlooks straightfoward enoughJun 18 07:22
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: I am just not prepared to turn the computer I am using right now into a 24/7 proxy workhorse. Even its for a great cause. I may use my PS3 though, it sure beats Folding@HomeJun 18 07:22
Carl_Rover2k12I got YDL installed on itJun 18 07:23
TLintonhahaJun 18 07:23
TLintonthat's fineJun 18 07:23
twitter"we know that it was us that scorched the sky,"  ut oh,  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105483423&sc=fb&cc=fpJun 18 07:23
TLintonno better use for a playstation, i guess :)Jun 18 07:23
TLintoni'm probably not going to use my cox line for it eitherJun 18 07:23
TLintonat least not for longJun 18 07:23
TLintonbut if i can get it working at workJun 18 07:24
TLintonthat would be niceJun 18 07:24
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: not sure if I should use my ISP, I already got a warning from them for downloading a few copyrighted works via BittorrentJun 18 07:24
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: I am sure they would have a field day if they see my upload use shooting upJun 18 07:24
TLintonCarl_Rover2k12: i would guess they don't give a damn about thatJun 18 07:24
TLintonthey don't worry about your bandwidthJun 18 07:25
TLintonjust if they gat a DMCA requestJun 18 07:25
TLinton*getJun 18 07:25
TLintonunless you're with time warner or somethingJun 18 07:25
Carl_Rover2k12TLinton: or the lawyers from 21st Century Fox :PJun 18 07:25
TLintonright :)Jun 18 07:25
TLintonhmmm, let me ssh into that bsd boxJun 18 07:26
TLintonit's been a whileJun 18 07:26
TLintonit's a box that does nothing but serve static html pages over httpdJun 18 07:26
TLintonunderutilized bandwidth would be an understatement for that oneJun 18 07:27
TLintonmost people even forget it existsJun 18 07:27
TLintonmwahahaJun 18 07:27
TLintonexcept when the domain is up for renewalJun 18 07:27
Carl_Rover2k12lol kewlJun 18 07:29
TLintonsquid-3.0.15 in portsJun 18 07:31
TLintonrequires perlJun 18 07:31
TLintonno prob, that's thereJun 18 07:31
TLintonnow for the magic of rootologyJun 18 07:31
TLintonhmm, screw thatJun 18 07:33
TLintonjust download the tar and make installJun 18 07:34
Carl_Rover2k12did that alreadyJun 18 07:35
TLintonok, going nowJun 18 07:36
TLintonlet's look at ipfilter nowJun 18 07:37
TLintonit must be the original config from the install imageJun 18 07:37
TLintonblock in quick from... lol, those idiotsJun 18 07:38
TLintoni had to check if this thing is still serving off port 80Jun 18 07:39
TLintonoh wellJun 18 07:39
TLintonoh, to anyJun 18 07:39
TLintonok, my badJun 18 07:39
TLintonthis is not a config fileJun 18 07:39
TLintonTHIS IS SPARTJun 18 07:39
TLintonAJun 18 07:39
TLintonheysoos, it's the whole netblockJun 18 07:40
TLintoni wonder who set this upJun 18 07:41
TLintonhahaJun 18 07:41
TLintonthe ranges on the class e ones are all wrongJun 18 07:41
TLintonokJun 18 07:46
TLintonother than a subnet that hasn't been there for ages, it looks ok nowJun 18 07:46
TLintonah crapJun 18 07:46
TLintonblock in log quick on CX09329 proto from any to anyJun 18 07:48
TLintonjust in caseJun 18 07:48
TLintoni guess this has never been DoSedJun 18 07:48
TLintonor maybe it has and we never noticedJun 18 07:48
TLintonokJun 18 07:48
Carl_Rover2k12perhaps you should email that austin guy to let him know?Jun 18 07:49
TLintoni will, i need to get him the two IPsJun 18 07:49
TLintonas soon as I have this runningJun 18 07:49
TLintonjust need to make sure i don't leave the box wide openJun 18 07:49
TLintoni wonder if the proxy requires 'keep state'Jun 18 07:50
TLintonprobably notJun 18 07:50
TLintonok, block 80/81/8080/9090/3128Jun 18 07:52
TLinton*blockedJun 18 07:52
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TLintonfersehJun 18 08:06
TLintoni can't get it to workJun 18 08:06
TLintoni need to finish this in the morningJun 18 08:07
TLintongnJun 18 08:07
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF Comes Before OOXML < http://ping.fm/chlvw >Jun 18 08:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Soapbox is on Fire ttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/18/microsoft-product-firing-line-deux/Jun 18 08:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft on Competition: “We Need to Create the Reputation for Problems and Incompatibilities” http://ping.fm/6GOiy #odfJun 18 09:42
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell, Like Microsoft, Starts Trading Debt < http://ping.fm/wfuwN >Jun 18 10:12
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schestowitztrmanco: http://www.kabatology.com/06/17/gnote-a-mono-free-alternative-to-tomboy-notes/Jun 18 10:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple Warns Palm Pre Users: We're Going To Break Your iTunes Syncing < http://ping.fm/AXB4z > Apple needs to be pressured here...Jun 18 10:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Yet Another Study Shows That Weaker Copyright Benefits Everyone < http://ping.fm/p6ETO > Folks like Lessig have yelled this for ages.Jun 18 10:27
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_Hicham_Good Morning!Jun 18 10:37
_Hicham_how r u doing schestowitz?Jun 18 10:37
schestowitzOK. And you?Jun 18 10:37
MinceRapple needs to be abandoned and/or destroyed, not just pressuredJun 18 10:38
_Hicham_im fineJun 18 10:40
_Hicham_just testing openSUSE 11.2Jun 18 10:40
MinceRewJun 18 10:40
_Mutex_The FSF use copyright to enforce the GPL, otherwise it would be public domainJun 18 10:41
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=knowledge_center&articleId=9134442&taxonomyId=1&intsrc=kc_topJun 18 10:41
schestowitz_Mutex_: yes, I know. I bore this in mindJun 18 10:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Apple finally patches six-month-old Java bugs... more than six months after Sun fixed the same flaws for Windows and Linux users." http ...Jun 18 10:42
MinceRstrange, another website mentioned crApple fixing 10 month-old bugsJun 18 10:42
MinceRthey say the java bugs are 10 month old, but then again, they aren't reputed to be accurate :>Jun 18 10:43
MinceRhm, the original news is englishJun 18 10:45
MinceRoh, they counted from discoveryJun 18 10:46
MinceRhttp://www.dailytech.com/Apple+Patches+Java+Hole+Nearly+a+Year+After+Initial+Discovery/article15427.htmJun 18 10:46
_Mutex_6, 9,12 !!! (insert random number here) :)Jun 18 10:47
schestowitzCentral Anti-Virus For Small Business? < http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/06/16/2126231/Central-Anti-Virus-For-Small-Business >. They should migrate.  Central Anti-Virus For Small Business?Jun 18 10:49
schestowitzCheck out this video: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4362Jun 18 10:49
schestowitzBenQ funny one: "Linux OS option is also listed but no specific Linux Distribution is mentioned. " http://www.techtree.com/India/News/BenQs_New_Ultra-portable_Joybook_Lite_Netbook/551-103304-893.htmlJun 18 10:50
schestowitzJust a PR stunt from BenQ?Jun 18 10:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux powers equipment at the US Navy: http://ping.fm/dyJ10Jun 18 10:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Survey Predicts Continued Strong Growth of Linux Use on Mainframes http://ping.fm/tvqyFJun 18 10:52
trmancochromium already has some extensionsJun 18 10:52
_Hicham_trmanco : not on linuxJun 18 10:54
trmancoI've tried but they say signature invalidJun 18 10:54
schestowitzLet's support MozillaJun 18 10:54
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rare event: Amazon contributes code to Linux: http://ping.fm/0hzCYJun 18 10:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here's some new Linux bling http://ping.fm/maQPq [via @Kabatology ]Jun 18 10:57
splosionHrmm. Affordy seems a bit redundant, really. What is it with people attempting to make Linux look, feel and work exactly like Windows?Jun 18 10:58
schestowitzSee first comment here: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10263267-2.htmlJun 18 10:58
_Hicham_schestowitz : do u still have the scrolling problem on firefox?Jun 18 10:58
schestowitzsplosion: does it resemble something in Windows?WJun 18 10:58
schestowitzWhich version?Jun 18 10:58
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, 3.0 on my blog has issuesJun 18 10:59
schestowitzI have beta2 with similar problemsJun 18 10:59
splosionIt's just the same as how Moonlight will never be as good or as feature-y as Silverlight. You can never make Linux a perfect clone of Windows. If you try, you will have a substandard and poor clone of Windows. That will turn people away from using LinuxJun 18 10:59
schestowitz[of 3.5]Jun 18 10:59
_Hicham_schestowitz : on openSUSE this issue disappearedJun 18 10:59
_Hicham_Firefox scrolls like a charmJun 18 10:59
schestowitzMust be that whole Microslop interlope thingJun 18 11:00
schestowitzNew motto: "Buy SUSE, scroll like in IE"Jun 18 11:00
_Hicham_openSUSE 11.2 is the most responsive distro that I have used till nowJun 18 11:01
schestowitzNew motto: "Buy SLED, get Windows-like menu"Jun 18 11:01
_Hicham_it is not SLEDJun 18 11:01
schestowitzIt's not finalJun 18 11:01
_Hicham_it is openSUSEJun 18 11:01
schestowitzSLED=11.1Jun 18 11:01
_Hicham_well, for me, it worksJun 18 11:01
_Hicham_the mono crap can be easily removedJun 18 11:02
_Hicham_10 secondsJun 18 11:02
_Hicham_et voilaJun 18 11:02
_Hicham_openSUSE is mono freeJun 18 11:02
splosionhas anyone tried Codeblocks IDE?Jun 18 11:03
trmanconopJun 18 11:03
trmancosplosion, to program in what?Jun 18 11:04
splosionanythingJun 18 11:04
trmancoI'll tryJun 18 11:05
_Hicham_splosion : on Linux?Jun 18 11:05
splosionyeahJun 18 11:06
splosionwell, on any platfrom reallyJun 18 11:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Digital Britain to push "culturally British" games http://is.gd/15dewJun 18 11:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Amazon Kindle powered by Linux, FSF not impressed http://ping.fm/ioJRxJun 18 11:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mozilla pushes Firefox 3.5 RC to beta testers http://ping.fm/GkwRGJun 18 11:07
trmancowowJun 18 11:11
trmancolooks greatJun 18 11:11
oiaohmUsed code blocks for a while.  Lasted until I got ready to strangle wxwidgits.Jun 18 11:11
schestowitzIf you install it, pls tell us if it scrolls OK in BN because issues are anticipatedJun 18 11:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : that image is too grainy for folks to enjoy.Jun 18 11:12
oiaohmBasically splosion if you can get along with wxwidgets you will be fine.   I ended up returning to my prefered QT.Jun 18 11:12
splosionokayJun 18 11:14
splosionthis is all part of my on-going attempt to do stuff in anything other than PythonJun 18 11:14
_Hicham_splosion : use AnjutaJun 18 11:15
_Hicham_it integrates well with autogen and automakeJun 18 11:16
_Hicham_CodeBlocks brings the Visual Studio approachJun 18 11:16
splosionthanks I'll give that a goJun 18 11:17
oiaohmwxwidgets is lacking a good dialog creator.Jun 18 11:18
_Hicham_oiaohm : no, wxWidgets has good gui toolsJun 18 11:19
oiaohmPoint me to one that works as good as qtdesigner.  _Hicham_.   I have not found one yet.Jun 18 11:20
schestowitzglade is decentJun 18 11:21
_Hicham_glade is for gtk schestowitzJun 18 11:23
_Hicham_oiaohm : CodeBlocks has a good gui creator for wxWidgetsJun 18 11:23
oiaohmwxglade maybe schestowitz was thinking of.Jun 18 11:23
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_Hicham_it is called Dr SmithJun 18 11:24
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_Hicham_it is a plugin to CodeBlocksJun 18 11:24
_Hicham_I really like openSUSE 11.2Jun 18 11:25
_Hicham_but I don't know why it doesn't support KMSJun 18 11:26
schestowitz_Hicham_: I know it's got GTKJun 18 11:26
schestowitzWhat was the original need?Jun 18 11:26
schestowitzI thought it was about any generic GUI and Glade autogens the gtk codeJun 18 11:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "The date is approaching, and we’re ready to kick Linux Against Poverty into high gear." http://ping.fm/xnxZbJun 18 11:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "EFF and Public Knowledge Reluctantly Drop Lawsuit for Information About ACTA" http://ping.fm/lAlZ2 ACTA is white-collar crime, collusionJun 18 11:27
oiaohmKMS for what _Hicham_Jun 18 11:27
schestowitzI used to manually write the gtk coords and all, then compile and run to check the effect. VERY labouriousJun 18 11:27
oiaohmKMS for ATI has only in the staging tree of 2.6.31  Fedora runs a lot of patches in there kernel before there mainline.Jun 18 11:28
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_Hicham_I seeJun 18 11:33
_Hicham_Fedora 11 have KMS working like a charmJun 18 11:33
_Hicham_openSUSE should followJun 18 11:33
_Hicham_I think I am gonna write to Greg Kroah Hartman to backport the patches to openSUSE 11.2Jun 18 11:34
oiaohmIt will come to openSUSE in time.Jun 18 11:34
oiaohmFedora is a development OS they can play a little more free with the rules on what should and should not be sent to end users.Jun 18 11:34
_Hicham_usually Greg Kroah Hartman strongly supports new techsJun 18 11:35
oiaohmHe is.Jun 18 11:35
oiaohmthe staging tree is his _Hicham_Jun 18 11:35
_Hicham_why not put it in 2.6.30?Jun 18 11:35
oiaohmSo for him most likely 2.6.31 linux kernel.Jun 18 11:35
_Hicham_it is stable enoughJun 18 11:35
_Hicham_did he say that?Jun 18 11:35
oiaohmNo normally stuff appears in the staging tree then in opensuseJun 18 11:36
oiaohmso if it follows normal.Jun 18 11:36
oiaohmThere was a patch merge issue with 2.6.30Jun 18 11:36
oiaohmAll the io correctons kinda got the ATI patch perfectly _Hicham_Jun 18 11:37
_Hicham_openSUSE is also a development OS, no?Jun 18 11:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] See RIAA/MPAA links in [1-12] http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/28/democrats-and-microsoft-policy/ for insight into OBAMAA falling into t ...Jun 18 11:37
oiaohmNo openSUSE trys to run as a stable OS _Hicham_Jun 18 11:37
trmancohttp://digg.com/d1u6OPJun 18 11:38
_Hicham_too badJun 18 11:38
oiaohmDoes mean it does have lower error rate on adverage _Hicham_Jun 18 11:39
oiaohmIts a bit like the difference between centos and fedora _Hicham_Jun 18 11:39
_Hicham_centos is a server oriented distroJun 18 11:40
_Hicham_like RHELJun 18 11:40
fewacentos is RHELJun 18 11:40
fewaessentiallyJun 18 11:40
_Hicham_fewa : I knowJun 18 11:40
fewait just needs to be saidJun 18 11:40
fewacentos is RHEL without the RHJun 18 11:41
schestowitztrmanco: "Microft"Jun 18 11:41
_Hicham_no, it doesn't need to be saidJun 18 11:41
fewabut PNAELV likes to prevent people from saying thatJun 18 11:41
_Hicham_or RedHat is gonna sue usJun 18 11:41
_Hicham_:)Jun 18 11:41
_Hicham_we shouldn't infringe trademarksJun 18 11:41
fewathe Prominent North American Enterprise Linux VendorJun 18 11:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Currently reading http://www.tengrandisburiedthere.comJun 18 11:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO is not quite rescued yet. http://ping.fm/OLY4TJun 18 11:42
fewaI do respect trademarksJun 18 11:42
_Hicham_fewa : me tooJun 18 11:42
fewatrademarks are goodJun 18 11:42
_Hicham_that is why I don't like to say CentOS is RHELJun 18 11:42
trmancohttp://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/get-the-facts/browser-comparison.aspxJun 18 11:43
trmancolies damn lies and ...Jun 18 11:43
fewatrmanco, why eugene?Jun 18 11:43
_Hicham_trmanco : true, IE is secureJun 18 11:44
_Hicham_no browser is more secure than IEJun 18 11:44
_Hicham_which browser let installs ActiveX without asking for permission?Jun 18 11:44
_Hicham_it is Mr IEJun 18 11:44
_Hicham_the web saviorJun 18 11:44
fewahmm perhaps google maps is detectig and putting me in eugene, orJun 18 11:45
trmancoyou call that security?Jun 18 11:45
fewaAbsofinglutely!Jun 18 11:45
_Hicham_trmanco : yesJun 18 11:45
fewaThe savior from heaven!Jun 18 11:45
_Hicham_and which browser lets u execute arbitrary code on clients?Jun 18 11:46
_Hicham_it is Mr IEJun 18 11:46
_Hicham_we really should thank MS for creating itJun 18 11:46
fewaweb standards, yes IE is a tie on web standardsJun 18 11:46
tacone_Hicham_: MS created also a firefox extension for code executionJun 18 11:46
fewacause it passes acid3 with flying colors and allJun 18 11:46
_Hicham_tacone : I know, the .Net AssistantJun 18 11:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz authentic 8-bit pr0n! see also http://xkcd.com/598/Jun 18 11:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] See how Black Duck (created by Microsoft employee) invites Microsoft to FOSS 'on our behalf' http://ping.fm/fh9Fl I told ya!Jun 18 11:47
fewa"Only Internet Explorer 8 has both tab isolation and crash recovery features; Firefox and Chrome have one or the other. "Jun 18 11:47
_Hicham_Chrome have them bothJun 18 11:48
fewathats downright lyinhJun 18 11:48
fewaexactlyJun 18 11:48
_Mutex_who has a sandbox ?Jun 18 11:48
oiaohmFirst version chrome was missing crash recovery.Jun 18 11:48
_Hicham_oiaohm : now it have itJun 18 11:49
oiaohmBasically MS guys don't keep up to date.Jun 18 11:49
trmancoit's stupidJun 18 11:49
trmancothey are extremely desperateJun 18 11:49
ziggyfishfewa, the funny thing is they talk about IE 8, and forget about IE <=7Jun 18 11:50
ziggyfishwhere most of the problems lieJun 18 11:50
_Mutex_"VANCOUVER, BC — Charlie Miller has done it again.  For the second consecutive year, the security researcher hacked into a fully patched MacBook computer by exploiting a security vulnerability in Apple’s Safari browser."Jun 18 11:50
fewacause they have to keep people upgradingJun 18 11:50
fewaits like vistaJun 18 11:50
fewaif people dont move to vista, or vista 7, thy might move to GNU/LinuxJun 18 11:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @davidgerard authentic 8-bit pr0n! see also http://xkcd.com/598/Jun 18 11:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Satan of the Web incinerates $50m in 12 months http://ping.fm/MQIMYJun 18 11:52
ziggyfishfewa, your right, the place I work at is considering moving to UbuntuJun 18 11:52
schestowitzNot GNU/Linux?Jun 18 11:54
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6775/1/Jun 18 11:54
ziggyfishschestowitz, mm, interestingJun 18 11:55
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fewatrmanco, ahh now i know why eugene, OR :PJun 18 11:56
schestowitz MPs' expenses made public online < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk_politics/8105227.stm >Jun 18 11:57
schestowitzziggyfish: Ubuntu is goodJun 18 11:58
schestowitzBut moving to Ubuntu without broadening scope is like saying "I need to buy a Fiat"Jun 18 11:58
schestowitzUS broadband usage rises sharply < http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/technology/8105726.stm >Jun 18 11:59
ziggyfishschestowitz, we are also looking at FedoraJun 18 12:00
ziggyfishor RHELJun 18 12:00
schestowitzCentOS maybe?Jun 18 12:02
schestowitzBN runs on CentOSJun 18 12:02
schestowitzBut the repos might not be extensive enough for desktop useJun 18 12:02
schestowitzMandriva uses RPMJun 18 12:02
schestowitzAnd it's a desktop distro. PCLinuxOS is based on Mandriva (like Mint to Ubuntu)Jun 18 12:02
fewamost extensive is debianJun 18 12:03
schestowitzBut Mandriva has KDE, whereas Ubuntu does not. Mint had KDE edition nd xfce alsoJun 18 12:03
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schestowitz /had/has/Jun 18 12:03
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schestowitzfewa: 20GB?Jun 18 12:03
schestowitzOr 20k programs?Jun 18 12:03
fewabothJun 18 12:03
fewaand thats 20GB per archJun 18 12:03
fewaie x7?Jun 18 12:04
schestowitzSo I remember correctlyJun 18 12:04
fewano, 11Jun 18 12:04
schestowitzYou could just make an uber distro on a blu-ray mediumJun 18 12:04
fewai386, source and amd64Jun 18 12:04
fewabut really you should only download what you needJun 18 12:04
fewaand can use apt-cacher-ng to locally cacheJun 18 12:04
splosionschestowitz: you can already get 22gb blu-ray iso images for DebianJun 18 12:05
*schestowitz wonders what occupies so much of the Vista CD/DVD-ROMJun 18 12:05
fewaschestowitz, there is a jidgoJun 18 12:05
_Hicham_the openSUSE LiveCD is terrific schestowitzJun 18 12:05
_Hicham_apart the Mono crapJun 18 12:05
schestowitzAny better than others?Jun 18 12:05
schestowitzThe theming is goodJun 18 12:05
_Hicham_yesJun 18 12:05
_Hicham_it boots fasterJun 18 12:06
schestowitzThe rest ought to be the same as peersJun 18 12:06
schestowitz_Hicham_: it's a new distroJun 18 12:06
fewaalso, ubuntu only does security updates for the core, supported systemJun 18 12:06
schestowitzmilstone 1?Jun 18 12:06
schestowitz*milsetoneJun 18 12:06
_Hicham_no, milestone 2Jun 18 12:06
schestowitzOKJun 18 12:06
splosionI wonder what goes on with Vista being so large, especially seeing the apps that come with it are so small. Are the default apps in 7 any good? I haven't seen themJun 18 12:06
schestowitzSo it's just the new fast-boot codeJun 18 12:06
schestowitzIt's not an OpenSUSE thingJun 18 12:06
_Hicham_and the new responsivenessJun 18 12:06
schestowitzIt will reach Ubuntu 9.10Jun 18 12:06
schestowitzBoot in 10-20 secsJun 18 12:07
fewaits 2.6.30Jun 18 12:07
_Hicham_and firefox scrolls greatJun 18 12:07
_Hicham_even with compizJun 18 12:07
schestowitzCOOL!Jun 18 12:07
fewathe ACPI and hardware is parallel nowJun 18 12:07
schestowitzAlso in BN?Jun 18 12:07
_Hicham_yesJun 18 12:07
schestowitzThat's a reliefJun 18 12:07
schestowitzFirefox beta?Jun 18 12:07
_Hicham_also in BNJun 18 12:07
fewafirefox RC1Jun 18 12:07
_Hicham_3.5beta4Jun 18 12:07
schestowitzNiceJun 18 12:07
fewaits past betaJun 18 12:07
schestowitzBut..Jun 18 12:07
schestowitzRC1 is like a day old, no?Jun 18 12:07
_Hicham_but what?Jun 18 12:07
fewayesJun 18 12:07
*schestowitz looks at opensuse siteJun 18 12:08
_Hicham_mono is easy to removeJun 18 12:08
_Hicham_just like ubuntuJun 18 12:08
_Hicham_or mandrivaJun 18 12:08
fewahorray for Linux killer package managementJun 18 12:08
_Hicham_zypper is really the fastest package manager i ve seen till nowJun 18 12:08
_Hicham_packagekit with zypper backend is also horribly fastJun 18 12:09
fewahmmJun 18 12:09
_Hicham_a lot of R&D is going into thisJun 18 12:09
twittererror detected! http://twitpic.com/7m426, Victim was using M$ OSJun 18 12:09
schestowitz_Hicham_: yes, but does it run Lunix? :-)Jun 18 12:09
twitterError messages fill the Vista DVD, as well as locked features you get to pay for.Jun 18 12:09
_Hicham_schestowitz : what do u mean?Jun 18 12:10
schestowitztwitter: twitter http://twitpic.com/7m426Jun 18 12:10
schestowitz[without the comma]Jun 18 12:10
schestowitztwitter: it's from Microsoft'a anti-ODF chapJun 18 12:11
schestowitzAnd anti-LinuxJun 18 12:11
schestowitzHe's like an MS bullyJun 18 12:11
twitterYes, that's where I got that trashJun 18 12:11
schestowitzThe main MS bully from Holand, I think. Worse than hAl[bert]Jun 18 12:11
schestowitz*llandJun 18 12:11
schestowitzI just wanted to show people why he went to ODF PlugfestJun 18 12:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bloggers' views on anonymity < http://ping.fm/d33Ch >. Why know the person unless legal action of intimidation is the goal?Jun 18 12:12
twittermessage receivedJun 18 12:12
schestowitzHe and other Microsoft criminals (like Doug who illegally invaded panels) came their to attack ODFJun 18 12:12
schestowitzIt's like in evangelism docsJun 18 12:12
schestowitzGo to conferences to crash 'emJun 18 12:12
trmancohttp://pastebin.com/f4c3dce66Jun 18 12:13
schestowitzBut wait...........Jun 18 12:13
trmancoah, now answer, I seeJun 18 12:13
schestowitzhe shots a screenshotJun 18 12:13
schestowitzSo it couldn't be a demo at the conferenceJun 18 12:13
schestowitzSo he might be lyingJun 18 12:13
schestowitzMaybe he crashed it on someone's PC and pretended it crashed on demoJun 18 12:13
schestowitzJust like those Ballmer crashes of OS/2Jun 18 12:13
schestowitzWith 'bad app'Jun 18 12:13
schestowitzFUS tacticsJun 18 12:13
schestowitz*FUDJun 18 12:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Watch unethical people on the Web: http://ping.fm/GaNsI Those whose job is to manipulate people's perceptions. #uglyuglyuglyJun 18 12:17
twitterSlow internal reactions.  What a pathetic excuse Miguel has there.  We know from M$ emails their reaction is lightening quick when they are assembling a task force like EDGI or to block GNU/Linux at Walmart.Jun 18 12:17
schestowitzDon't tell that to MiguelJun 18 12:18
schestowitzit's not making him confortableJun 18 12:18
schestowitzhe's working with these peopleJun 18 12:18
schestowitzSeveral weeks per year in the MS campus where they pamper and train himJun 18 12:19
twitterKeeps his head in the sand, as most M$ training does.Jun 18 12:19
twitterPeople sucked up into the Windoze world are usually too busy to learn anything else.Jun 18 12:20
twitteror keep up with the real worldJun 18 12:20
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MinceRor he's just lying to usJun 18 12:20
twitterthis is a general problem in Corporate America but M$ dependents are worse than others.Jun 18 12:20
MinceRthat's standard m$ training tooJun 18 12:21
schestowitz"We're the good guys" --MSJun 18 12:21
twitterMiguel, from his videos and everything I've read from him, seems as sincere as he is harassed and misguidedJun 18 12:22
schestowitzFighting 'commies' I guess.... heroes in their own mindsJun 18 12:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Fedora 11 ScreenShots < http://ping.fm/2sUWc >Jun 18 12:22
trmancohttp://mitcho.com/blog/projects/ten-grand-is-buried-there/Jun 18 12:23
splosionOoh, there is to be a film of Doctorow's "Little Brother". NiceJun 18 12:24
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splosionby Don Murphy. Hrmm. Does it really need that much CGI?Jun 18 12:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Archos 10 comes with GNU/Linux. http://ping.fm/lNjYkJun 18 12:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ten Grand Is Buried There: http://tengrandisburiedthere.com/ !firefox #firefoxJun 18 12:27
splosionI wonder if the technical stuff will be as realistic as it was in the book. I'm guessing the tech-scenes will involve those stupid swooshy operating systems you only see in filmsJun 18 12:28
splosionand the machine will beep after *every* keypressJun 18 12:29
splosionthe protagonist will probably write a gui in VB to hide his IPJun 18 12:29
schestowitzKonqueror BugDay Starting Saturday, June 20th http://www.kdenews.org/2009/06/18/konqueror-bugday-starting-saturday-june-20thJun 18 12:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Official Firefox 3.5 Icon Files: http://is.gd/15gyeJun 18 12:32
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splosionhrmm, FireGPG doesn't seem to be working for me. RatsJun 18 12:34
fewasplosion, works for meJun 18 12:35
splosionMore ratsJun 18 12:35
fewayou need to have gpg installed to make it workJun 18 12:35
fewasupposedlyJun 18 12:35
splosionOh I do, no problem thereJun 18 12:35
splosionoh yeah balls. it'll be the corporate proxy stopping me. BallsJun 18 12:38
splosionnVidia says Windows CE is the shit http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-CE-More-Suitable-for-Tegra-Smartbooks-NVIDIA-Claims-114546.shtmlJun 18 12:39
splosionAccording to a recent news-article on IDG's Computerworld, NVIDIA is more confident in the features enabled by Microsoft's Windows CE than in those delivered by the much-hyped Google Android. It is Mike Rayfiled's belief that Microsoft’s operating system can deliver a “low memory footprint and has a good collection of apps,”Jun 18 12:40
splosionwhile at the same time being a “rock solid operating system that has been shipped billions of times.”Jun 18 12:40
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schestowitzShark Attack Problems < http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2009/05/28/shark-attack-problems/ >Jun 18 12:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It is disappointing that Matt Asay parrots the MS-tied company that ushers Microsoft into embrace & extend of "open source" http://ping. ...Jun 18 12:42
schestowitzhttp://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.5/releasenotes/Jun 18 12:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Youtube might move to Ogg/<video>, according to this: http://ping.fm/GeUifJun 18 12:47
schestowitzOstatic written by Mac users, giving the impression that Apple is somehow related to FOSS.. http://ostatic.com/blog/the-pocket-doctor-an-open-source-opportunityJun 18 12:48
splosionhttp://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/06/linux-sucks-as.html The final comment in this made me lolJun 18 12:48
splosion"You see, I have Used Windows from version 1.0 when a mouse could cost 80-120 US dls. down to Windows Vista Enterprise Edition. Now I am a proud tester of Windows 7, so I consider myself a Windows lover, but I have found it is just not ready for the desktop." etcJun 18 12:49
schestowitzOK, that's one heck of an army knife...  http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2009/06/fathers-day-gift-guide-hacker.arsJun 18 12:51
MinceRlolJun 18 12:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @pndc Ah, iPhone OS 3.0 finally admits the thing is an Etch-a-sketch: you shake it to undo.Jun 18 12:52
splosionhah. Reminds me of this: http://up.mibbit.com/up/AmPdGU4A.pngJun 18 12:52
schestowitz"The main problem with it is you have to spend real money to put it to work. This includes an office suite, anti-virus, photo editing software, real games, and so on and on. You could expect to pay somewhere between 200 to 600 US dls for them."Jun 18 12:52
splosionthe whole comment is pure goldJun 18 12:53
schestowitzTell that to $Average_Granpa and expect it to 'just work' and 'be ready for the desktop'Jun 18 12:53
schestowitz*ndpaJun 18 12:53
schestowitzsplosion: it's the same picture, no?Jun 18 12:54
schestowitzGood chart, bookmarkedJun 18 12:55
splosionyeahJun 18 12:55
splosionI wouldn't bookmark it. I just uploaded it to mibbit; the uploads get purged pretty sharphishJun 18 12:55
oiaohmhttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/microsoft-stops-paying-for-iphone-blackberry-data-plans.ars  Company lining up to kill self.Jun 18 12:59
oiaohmIf you don't know what you competitor is doing you cannot beat them.Jun 18 13:00
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_Mutex_ms stops paying Apple,,, gee there's a surpriseJun 18 13:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz where in that does it mention theora? they're testing youtube with H.264 in <video>!Jun 18 13:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @techpractical high comedy from Microsoft http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/get-the-facts/browser-comparison.aspxJun 18 13:02
splosionWeb standards is a tie, eh?Jun 18 13:04
splosionThat table is rather lawlsyJun 18 13:04
schestowitzFeelin' the pressureJun 18 13:04
schestowitzThey get to the gullibleJun 18 13:04
schestowitzA professor I worked with got this idea that Firefox is dangerousJun 18 13:05
schestowitzSure, cause only IE is the secure browserJun 18 13:05
schestowitzBecause Microsoft not only makes activeX but also brings patched to it, overdue typically.Jun 18 13:05
schestowitzBut it shows you the foundation of FUDJun 18 13:05
_Mutex_FF has had its fair share of critical security flaws,,Jun 18 13:05
schestowitzWait, I saw something about Jordan earlierJun 18 13:05
schestowitzHere: http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/business/0,39051970,62054272,00.htm?scid=rss_z_etiJun 18 13:06
splosionschestowitz: at my University, the homepage for Firefox on the library computers is a local text file that says, "Don't use Firefox, it has security and compatability problems. Please use Internet Explorer instead."Jun 18 13:06
schestowitzCheck out this idiocy: "It will cost you more, by the way. We are working in the hospital sector, using open source. I think that in the beginning, the cost will be higher. In the long run it could be better."Jun 18 13:06
schestowitzOh yeah...Jun 18 13:06
splosionor something along those linesJun 18 13:06
schestowitzOpen source meas DIY tooJun 18 13:06
schestowitz"You have to develop software to interface with the open source, which will cost you more. A country like Jordan cannot afford such things.Jun 18 13:06
schestowitz'Maybe MS sent him some .DOC file with this textJun 18 13:06
schestowitz"You have to develop software to interface with the open source"Jun 18 13:06
schestowitzToo bad.Jun 18 13:07
schestowitzI haven't yet developed things for my boxJun 18 13:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google should indeed embrace more encryption: http://ping.fm/gVVS7 Open Letter to Google's Eric Schmidt Requesting HTTPSJun 18 13:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] davidgerard@ Yes, but yesterday I read about Google comparing ogg and h.264, as is Mozilla which likes ogg a lotJun 18 13:07
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schestowitzsplosion: maybe you have some lackey MCSE who is trying to save his careerJun 18 13:08
schestowitzSo the file could be mischiefJun 18 13:08
schestowitzIt's part of 'the movement'Jun 18 13:08
splosionmeh. I'm leaving in a month anyhow. I'm content to leave them to itJun 18 13:08
schestowitzSpreading FUD in iconartJun 18 13:08
oiaohmcompatabilty problems tell me it a web developer who don't built to standards.Jun 18 13:09
schestowitzCreate a new icon on the desktop. Call it "Microsoft is Taliban'Jun 18 13:09
schestowitzWhisper campaignJun 18 13:09
splosionGreat quote from the Debian forums: "I personally think that the GPL is about as free as the Windows EULA."Jun 18 13:09
schestowitzMaybe MouletteJun 18 13:10
schestowitzMouette?Jun 18 13:10
schestowitzwhatever..Jun 18 13:10
_Mutex_Ah yes, the good O'l "call em a terrorist" trick, then its "If you're not with us your aginst us". Nice.Jun 18 13:10
trmancohttp://digg.com/d1u7TpJun 18 13:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Why is the NY Times so Dumb About Linux and Windows?: http://is.gd/15ihiJun 18 13:12
splosionYou may recall 53 Pages, 10 Months, 1295 Infected Hosts, 103 Countries, And They Still Can't Say "Windows Malware"Jun 18 13:12
splosionouchJun 18 13:12
_Mutex_yes, fancy calling a computer "a computer' what were they thinking !!Jun 18 13:13
trmancohttp://digg.com/d1u6jNJun 18 13:14
trmancoah I seeJun 18 13:14
splosionIt's dishonesty via omissionJun 18 13:14
trmancoremove the gimp, but bloated f-spot and mono stayJun 18 13:14
trmancoway to go... pffJun 18 13:14
splosionugh. NastyJun 18 13:14
trmancohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-09#The%20GIMPJun 18 13:15
trmancosorryJun 18 13:15
trmanco"wrong" linkJun 18 13:15
splosionSolang is looking pretty good as an alternative to F-spotJun 18 13:15
trmancoI don't need no damn foto managerJun 18 13:16
splosionI'm debating whether or not to upgrade my laptop to Sid so I can try it outJun 18 13:16
trmancophoto*Jun 18 13:16
splosionwell I do! I have about 10,000 imagesJun 18 13:16
trmancowhich is comes with a photo manager?Jun 18 13:16
trmancoos*Jun 18 13:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Distro Review: Linux Mint 7 Gloria http://ping.fm/WSrdWJun 18 13:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] technical assessment of Ogg Theora (candidate for YouTube, hopefully): http://ping.fm/uk4kCJun 18 13:17
trmancoif people want it, they can install it, it's not essentialJun 18 13:17
trmancoa photo/picture/image editor isJun 18 13:17
splosionoh sure, I'm not debating whether or not it should be in the default installJun 18 13:17
trmancoyeah, I knowJun 18 13:17
trmancoit's just me talking (typing) out loud !Jun 18 13:18
trmanco:-PJun 18 13:18
splosionlolJun 18 13:18
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trmancoI think it's time ubuntu to move to a dvdJun 18 13:19
trmancofor*Jun 18 13:19
splosionOr at least have it as an optionJun 18 13:19
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schestowitztrmanco: not eveyone has a DVD driveJun 18 13:21
schestowitzAnd to maintain two is harderJun 18 13:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I just converted another Windows user to Linux. :-)Jun 18 13:22
schestowitzOmar87: http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/business/0,39051970,62054272,00.htm?scid=rss_z_etiJun 18 13:22
trmancotrue, but hey, it would solve these nasty problems with CD space...Jun 18 13:22
_Mutex_and how much is a DVD player, ? almost nothing these days,, then at least your not working to the lowest common system requirements.Jun 18 13:24
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fewalinux mint schould adopt ubuntu numbering conventionJun 18 13:25
twitterjigdo makes CD and DVD images easier to maintain, the images are created from package repositories on the fly, but package selection effort goes into both.Jun 18 13:25
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fewawould make things clearerJun 18 13:26
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twitterI used a DVD recently to install Debian because my ISP uses pppoe which is not on most netinstall imagesJun 18 13:26
splosion`more greatness from the Debian forums: "I don't like GNU at all. Between the rabid cultist fanbois, RMS and his weird-ass political agendas, and the "my way or the highway" attitude of the developers, I now try to avoid GPL/LGPL/GFDL/AGPL-licensed works."Jun 18 13:26
fewatwitter, but did you use all the software?Jun 18 13:27
*splosion` is now known as splosionJun 18 13:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @omar_s_hafez : well done moving people to libre softwareJun 18 13:27
twitter*twitter ignores new splosion nymJun 18 13:27
splosionIf you likeJun 18 13:28
fewaalso, ores new splosion nymJun 18 13:29
fewa<splosion> If you likeJun 18 13:29
schestowitzHaven't we heard *this* before? Ultimate Linux Newbie Guide: Call for contributors < http://www.linuxnewbieguide.org/content/ultimate-linux-newbie-guide-call-contributors >Jun 18 13:29
fewawhoopsJun 18 13:29
fewahttp://wiki.debian.org/LzmaDebJun 18 13:29
splosionfewa: ores?Jun 18 13:29
fewathats was a copy and paste errorJun 18 13:29
splosiono okJun 18 13:30
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splosionlzma looks really coolJun 18 13:32
fewaWow, im looking at that xiph comparison, and theora actually looks betterJun 18 13:35
fewayou can see the complexion and also better definition in the hairJun 18 13:35
splosionHrmm, the Tomboy debate on the Debian forums got Godwin'd on the first page. SheeshJun 18 13:37
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Np237hey thereJun 18 13:38
schestowitzWow. Novell's partners really get uncomfortable... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/18/novell-buys-back-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-66837Jun 18 13:39
_Hicham_at least openSUSE is responsive with Tomboy and Beagle installedJun 18 13:42
_Hicham_thought i didn't like the mono stachJun 18 13:42
_Hicham_*stackJun 18 13:42
_Hicham_once mono removed the speed increase considerablyJun 18 13:42
Np237_Hicham_: last week I booted my machine without X11Jun 18 13:43
Np237and the speed increased considerablyJun 18 13:43
Np237I couldn’t do useful things with it, but man, it was blazingly fastJun 18 13:44
_Hicham_well u can do a lot of thingsJun 18 13:45
_Hicham_u can surf the webJun 18 13:45
_Hicham_with w3mJun 18 13:45
oiaohmhttp://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-14013-Energy-Technologies-Examiner~y2009m6d16-England-market-produces-green-energy-with-kinetic-plates  Intersting idea.Jun 18 13:45
splosionThat sounds like a pretty good ideaJun 18 13:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's Linux carries on gaining momentum: http://ping.fm/zOuC1Jun 18 13:47
oiaohmNp237: My firewall box is working great without X11 server same with my network game server box?    Right a user who thinks command line cannot do important things.Jun 18 13:47
Np237oiaohm: generally I don’t have the same use for a firewall box and a desktop boxJun 18 13:48
oiaohmWhat about network game server.Jun 18 13:49
oiaohmMy network game server box something lives as a desktop when I am not network gaming.Jun 18 13:49
oiaohmTurning X11 off increases the numbers of players it can support.Jun 18 13:50
schestowitzNovell seems a little nervous.. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/18/novell-buys-back-debt/comment-page-1/#comment-66842Jun 18 13:51
splosionhttp://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Smartbooks-Embracing-Linux-With-Open-ARMs-67359.html?wlc=1245330446Jun 18 13:51
oiaohmRemoving mono really does not cripple anything.   Most mono applications have a equal native replace that is faster.Jun 18 13:51
schestowitzThey are not smartbooksJun 18 13:51
schestowitzThey are sub-notebooksJun 18 13:52
schestowitzMicrosoft renamed thingsJun 18 13:52
splosionschestowitz: I don't like that term either. shameJun 18 13:52
schestowitzIt tries to prepare for another slogJun 18 13:52
schestowitzElevate price, call it mino-notebookJun 18 13:52
schestowitzThen claim that 'other form factors' suckJun 18 13:52
schestowitzBut that's their typical strategyJun 18 13:52
schestowitzAnd people DO notiuceJun 18 13:52
fewapeople want cheap, little notebooksJun 18 13:52
fewashould be $200Jun 18 13:53
schestowitzECT sucksJun 18 13:53
splosionI wonder how cheap this things can possibly get. As cheap as the simple television you see in supermarkets?Jun 18 13:53
schestowitzThey always give voice to the Miccrosoft crowdJun 18 13:53
splosionthis/theseJun 18 13:53
schestowitzOr MS lawyers like MoskinJun 18 13:54
schestowitzChina sells these for $99Jun 18 13:54
fewatelevisions? televisions are generally over-pricedJun 18 13:54
schestowitzBut its own chipsJun 18 13:54
fewaalthough i admit tv tuners, cost a little over a monitorJun 18 13:54
oiaohmwonder how long before someone ships a smartbook with bluetooth headset and the means to dial the phone in the smartbook without opening it.Jun 18 13:54
splosionfewa: I mean where I live you can get cheap television and DVD players and the like for under 40 poundsJun 18 13:55
fewayeah dvd players are cheapJun 18 13:55
fewabut in the US i havnt seen many cheap tvs, although i dont look for themJun 18 13:55
fewaalot of large over-priced megascreensJun 18 13:56
splosionyeah. I hate thoseJun 18 13:56
Omar87schestowitz: Regarding the link you sent me, isn't it  a bit old?Jun 18 13:56
fewaI think they should cost somethhhing, as they should be capableJun 18 13:56
splosionI use my computer to download stuff I want to watch anyway. Not so much worth watching on TVJun 18 13:56
fewa$200 is probably good for a the next year or soJun 18 13:56
fewathen maybe going downJun 18 13:56
_Mutex_at BN old news is good news :)Jun 18 13:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Check this song out on #JamLegend, Monochrome by The Ruse http://is.gd/13RgoJun 18 13:57
Np237oiaohm: a game server cannot handle more players when X11 is stopped than what it does when X11 is idleJun 18 13:58
Np237unless you have partitioned it like a lamer, of courseJun 18 13:58
_Mutex_what games ??Jun 18 13:58
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oiaohmNp237: memory usage Np237.Jun 18 14:05
oiaohmThat is where the difference is.  Not all X11 memory can be pushed to swap.Jun 18 14:06
fewaturn off X when you are not using itJun 18 14:06
fewa/etc/init.d/gdm stopJun 18 14:06
oiaohmYep its simple.Jun 18 14:06
splosionhttp://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/ --- "But you'll never find it using that browser (so get rid of it, or get lost!)"Jun 18 14:06
fewasplosion, http://www.tengrandisburiedthere.com/Jun 18 14:07
oiaohmYou answer shows you  Np237 again shows thinking of the wrong cause of problem.Jun 18 14:07
oiaohmPeople under value the importance of ram.Jun 18 14:08
fewai bought 8 GB for a reasonJun 18 14:08
fewa(mainly cause it was so cheap)Jun 18 14:08
splosionHah. Great link fewaJun 18 14:09
splosionI need some more RAM.Jun 18 14:09
fewaDDR2 us butload cheapJun 18 14:09
fewaas the ram producers were caught price fixingJun 18 14:10
_Mutex_and moores lawJun 18 14:12
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schestowitzWowJun 18 14:24
schestowitzRevelation.Jun 18 14:24
schestowitz"Two things that Roy has missed though, is that this year Novell’s earning will most likely drop below the $900 million level for the first time in a long time and they are selling of pieces of the business behind the scenes like the news that the New Zealand arm of the business will soon be sold to internal staff."Jun 18 14:24
schestowitzhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/burying_the_truth_boycott_novell_hit_by_denial_of_service_attackJun 18 14:24
schestowitzPETA pushes to halt Seattle fish mongers from tossing fish http://www.boingboing.net/2009/06/15/peta-pushes-to-halt.htmlJun 18 14:29
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twitterWho wants to have fish tossed over their heads?  Might as well drop tuna into your bath tub.Jun 18 14:34
twitter"I strongly suspect that that someone iis a person with a screw loose and a grudge against Schestowitz's strong anti-Microsoft and proprietary software views. If that seems a little bit over-the-top, well, as I just pointed out, it doesn't really require any technical expertise to knock out a Web site. "Jun 18 14:37
schestowitzWe've just stepped on a major scandal: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/18/novell-buys-back-debt/#commentsJun 18 14:38
schestowitzThe Novell shills go out of orderJun 18 14:38
twitterSJVN has not put the pieces together to think your attacker is just a crankJun 18 14:38
schestowitztwitter: can't say some thingsJun 18 14:39
twitterThey have to be a crank with some kind of tie to M$ or Novell.Jun 18 14:39
schestowitzEither way, tessier (the admin) mailed him logsJun 18 14:39
schestowitzHe saw proof of the attacksJun 18 14:39
twitterNo one else would care and the same kind of "cranks" have hit others.  You have published long lists of people smeared by M$ directly and indirectly.Jun 18 14:40
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twitterAnything is possible but only a few things are probable.Jun 18 14:40
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twitterBN being DDoS'd by a random crank is not credible.Jun 18 14:41
twitterBN being DDoS'd by someone on some kind of M$ payroll is credible.  From Barkto to the SLOG doc, we know they spend money disrupting others.Jun 18 14:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[astralknight] Easy Peasy: Ubuntu for Netbooks: http://digg.com/d1uBN6?tJun 18 14:42
_Hicham_schestowitz : will u buy SUSE if Novell went bankrupt?Jun 18 14:42
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Np237twitter: why would they spend time DDOSing people who spend time discrediting the open source community?Jun 18 14:43
schestowitz_Hicham_: sorry, no moneyJun 18 14:43
schestowitzBig Media Sites Like Hulu "Anti-Consumer, Anti-Media Employees, Anti-America"? http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/are-big-media-sites-like-hulu-anti-consumer-anti-media-employees-anti-america/Jun 18 14:44
*DaemonMDV watches HuluJun 18 14:44
twitterOh well, congrats on getting "mainstream" coverage of the attack.  That's progress even if SVJN does throw in a few smears that can be interpreted as "BN is unreasonable".Jun 18 14:44
DaemonMDVWhat's so wrong with Hulu?Jun 18 14:44
twitterBig Media is unAmerican.Jun 18 14:44
DaemonMDVIt's cross platform obviouslyJun 18 14:44
schestowitztwitter: not reallyJun 18 14:44
schestowitzDepends what you mean by AmericanJun 18 14:45
schestowitzSee front page of Slallman.orgJun 18 14:45
schestowitzAnd see what it says on the USian flagJun 18 14:45
schestowitzTo some people, AMerica is about world domination and moneyJun 18 14:45
twitterI consider the US Constitution to be American.Jun 18 14:45
schestowitzYesJun 18 14:45
twitterThe other stuff is fluff and bull.Jun 18 14:45
DaemonMDVStallman wants to boycott half the internet and every country in the world not run by dictators and savagesJun 18 14:45
schestowitzAlthough the founding father have a religious side to their raison detre tooJun 18 14:46
DaemonMDVso I don't put a lot of stock in what he saysJun 18 14:46
twitterLike the first amendment?Jun 18 14:46
DaemonMDVhe wants to cozy up to the people that would burn the first amendmentJun 18 14:46
twitterThe US Constitution is all about religious freedom rather than establishment.Jun 18 14:47
DaemonMDVjust not the kind fluffy ones that would burn the first amendmentJun 18 14:47
DaemonMDVhe prefers the ones that would burn the first amendment after cutting off your head and shitting down your throatJun 18 14:47
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DaemonMDVI've seen few people that are as politically misguided as StallmanJun 18 14:48
twitterBroadcast monopolies, a technical necessity of the early 20th century, are directly opposed to American libertarian philosophy.Jun 18 14:48
DaemonMDVyou don't protest one set of bad guys by cozying up with an even worse set of bad guysJun 18 14:48
DaemonMDVbut he has no trouble with itJun 18 14:48
twitterIt basically creates a set of Government Sponsored publishers.Jun 18 14:48
twitterThis is very evil.Jun 18 14:49
DaemonMDVyes, so evil that anyone would dare to ask money for their workJun 18 14:49
DaemonMDVand let a free market decide if it's worth itJun 18 14:49
twitterBig Media is a child of Broadcast Monopoly.Jun 18 14:49
DaemonMDVthat would just be too honestJun 18 14:49
DaemonMDV:)Jun 18 14:49
DaemonMDVoh waitJun 18 14:49
twitterBig Media is manifestly UnAmerican.Jun 18 14:49
schestowitzIRS may tax work cell phones as a 'fringe benefit'  http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/irs-may-tax-work-cell-phones-fringe-benefit/2009-06-12Jun 18 14:50
twitterLOL.  First they sold of the spectrum.  Now they tax the high costs.Jun 18 14:50
twitterTheft on top of theft.Jun 18 14:50
DaemonMDVtwitter: If independent labels and unknown artists were any good, they'd catch on and the RIAA would go underJun 18 14:51
DaemonMDVthe only way any band can sell stuff without the RIAA is by already being popularJun 18 14:51
DaemonMDVsuch as those Radiohead albumsJun 18 14:51
DaemonMDVif there's no mechanism for bands to get popular then they're missing exposure to everyone that doesn't use the internet or doesn't want compressed music filesJun 18 14:52
schestowitzMAFIAA is a middleman, a meta-industry. In a world with neutral networks (Internet), they become obsoleteJun 18 14:52
DaemonMDVwhich is a sizeable chunkJun 18 14:52
twitterBroadcast monopoly replaces the burden of publishers to maintain a good reputation with the burden of pleasing government.  It also makes the public lazy and accepting.Jun 18 14:52
schestowitzThey go the way of the teller'clerk in an age of online bankingJun 18 14:53
schestowitz... If we could only eliminate more lawyer jobs...Jun 18 14:53
twitterNo they don't.  They seek to own and destroy free networks.Jun 18 14:53
DaemonMDVhale the world are middlemenJun 18 14:53
schestowitzNopeJun 18 14:53
DaemonMDVI hope Hulu and Joost gt biggerJun 18 14:53
schestowitzWest maybeJun 18 14:53
DaemonMDVI ditched most of my cable channelsJun 18 14:53
schestowitzA lot of the world is famersJun 18 14:53
schestowitzAnd construction-related jobsJun 18 14:54
DaemonMDVcause Hulu and Joost show most of my TV shows anywayJun 18 14:54
schestowitzWowlrd != USA!!Jun 18 14:54
schestowitzLet this realisation penerate your head :-)Jun 18 14:54
schestowitzIt's like the Galileo timesJun 18 14:54
_Mutex_the only people who think it is are from the USJun 18 14:54
schestowitzThe world does not revolve around the U.S.A.Jun 18 14:54
_Mutex_amenJun 18 14:55
DaemonMDVthings that deserve to survive on their own merit usually doJun 18 14:55
schestowitzLike the Sun does not revolve around EarthJun 18 14:55
DaemonMDVnever said it didJun 18 14:55
DaemonMDVlet them do whateverJun 18 14:55
DaemonMDV:)Jun 18 14:55
schestowitz /s/famers/farmers/Jun 18 14:55
DaemonMDVdon't let the door hit them on the way outJun 18 14:55
DaemonMDVis what I sayJun 18 14:55
DaemonMDVof course that's as polite as it getsJun 18 14:57
twitterWow, that SJVN story got fifty one replies, most of them from .... "cranks"Jun 18 14:59
twitterugly stuffJun 18 14:59
twitterthe usual though.Jun 18 14:59
twitterSame old smears with new nyms.Jun 18 15:00
*DaemonMDV makes soe more twitter clones so the screwballs seem to be more numerous on Slashdot and DiggJun 18 15:00
schestowitzIt's the same when he writes about GroklawJun 18 15:00
DaemonMDVit's only fair, right?Jun 18 15:00
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 15:00
schestowitzAttacks on PJ and her familay sometimesJun 18 15:00
twitterThe consistency of the smear message is an indicator of it's corporate origins.Jun 18 15:01
DaemonMDVI don't think schestowitz is real, I think he's twitter clone #1478Jun 18 15:01
_Mutex_where is it, zdnet ?Jun 18 15:01
DaemonMDVthey're an army of Russian lawn gnomesJun 18 15:01
twitterSame people doing the same job.Jun 18 15:01
DaemonMDVsent to commandeer SlashdotJun 18 15:01
twitterThat's the way big dumb companies operate.Jun 18 15:01
_Mutex_and little dumb onesJun 18 15:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Congress Introduces IP Protections for Foreign Climate Change Agreements http://ping.fm/MQcNH Madness!Jun 18 15:02
twitterProtection Money.Jun 18 15:03
schestowitzWaggener brags about itJun 18 15:03
schestowitzThey patent techniques for what they call "perception management"Jun 18 15:03
DaemonMDVcoolJun 18 15:03
schestowitzSometimes "shaping"Jun 18 15:03
schestowitzEdelman tooJun 18 15:03
schestowitzThey are the scum of the EarthJun 18 15:03
DaemonMDVwhere's the part where I give a shit?Jun 18 15:03
twitterprofessional liarsJun 18 15:03
DaemonMDVI must have missed itJun 18 15:04
schestowitzThere should be laws against themJun 18 15:04
schestowitzSame with lobbyistsJun 18 15:04
schestowitzThey are satan's little helpersJun 18 15:04
schestowitzFaustianInc.Jun 18 15:04
twitterinstead, they manipulate the laws for the benefit of their mastersJun 18 15:04
schestowitzDaemonMDV: watch your languageJun 18 15:04
DaemonMDVWho cares?Jun 18 15:04
schestowitzThat's the second time in like 12 minsJun 18 15:04
schestowitzYou're pooping in the channelJun 18 15:04
DaemonMDVHumans are on track to destroy the planet anywayJun 18 15:04
twitterbetter to ignore DeamonWhateverJun 18 15:05
DaemonMDVWho cares if it takes 50 years or 100?Jun 18 15:05
DaemonMDVthe unsustainable population growth will cause a far more horrific die off when we reach our peakJun 18 15:05
schestowitzHumans are not designed to make fertile ground for their offspringJun 18 15:05
DaemonMDVso better sooner than laterJun 18 15:05
schestowitzit's not part of our DNAJun 18 15:05
schestowitzSo like germs in a petri dish we expand until we starveJun 18 15:06
twitterhuman compost ?Jun 18 15:06
twitterickJun 18 15:06
schestowitzExponential growth can be battled with educationJun 18 15:06
schestowitzBut many people ensure people stay dumbJun 18 15:06
schestowitzIt's essential for their power'profitJun 18 15:06
DaemonMDVpersonally, I believe everyone should be forcibly sterilized and apply for a permit to be a parentJun 18 15:06
_Mutex_education or extermination ??Jun 18 15:06
DaemonMDVthe application will be approved if they have the resourcesJun 18 15:06
schestowitzThus global warming denial, religions that encourage maximising birth and banning contraception.Jun 18 15:06
twitteryes, the rich and powerful like having armies of desperate and ignorant people to do their will.Jun 18 15:07
schestowitzTo expand the religionJun 18 15:07
DaemonMDVthey can just freeze semen then be sterilizedJun 18 15:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Courtesy @damienwise I have hit new levels of RAGE. Two words: homeopathic plutonium. http://is.gd/15naP FFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-Jun 18 15:07
DaemonMDVand go do whatever they want at that pointJun 18 15:07
schestowitzOr rather, to dominate by the number per speciesJun 18 15:07
schestowitzSimple vbiologyJun 18 15:07
schestowitzbiologyJun 18 15:07
schestowitzSome people know thisJun 18 15:07
schestowitzThe altavista crowdJun 18 15:07
schestowitzBut you can never preach well. It's like game theory and there is always imbalance Jun 18 15:07
DaemonMDVcause what we have now encourages the rich to have lots of kids and encourages the poor to have lots of them to get more welfareJun 18 15:08
schestowitzAnd if the balancers stop fighting, then the evil side winsJun 18 15:08
DaemonMDVit's throwing gasoline on a fireJun 18 15:08
schestowitzSo there is one side always acting as regulatory forcesJun 18 15:08
schestowitzLike Rosa ParksJun 18 15:08
DaemonMDVbette yet, just do what China doesJun 18 15:08
schestowitzWe could still have slavery todayJun 18 15:08
schestowitzHad no-one resentedJun 18 15:08
DaemonMDVincrease their taxes the more kids they haveJun 18 15:08
schestowitzSlavery is great... well, to those who enslaveJun 18 15:08
twitterwe still have slavery todayJun 18 15:08
DaemonMDVI think people should have their taxes doubled every time they have more than 2 childrenJun 18 15:09
_Mutex_where do we ?Jun 18 15:09
schestowitzOr to those sending their 18-y-o kid to IraqJun 18 15:09
schestowitzto SpreadDemocracy();lJun 18 15:09
twittervisit the L curve and realize that most people are slavesJun 18 15:09
schestowitzYes, I knowJun 18 15:09
schestowitzBut it's different slaveryJun 18 15:09
schestowitzChains replaced by occupational repressionJun 18 15:10
_Mutex_so its not slavery then okJun 18 15:10
DaemonMDVthe only way to stop it is to turn off the magnet of state welfare for popping out kidsJun 18 15:10
schestowitzLike folks with day and night jobJun 18 15:10
DaemonMDVreplace it with a punishmentJun 18 15:10
schestowitzCompelled by ecnomic pressures and stagnating wagesJun 18 15:10
schestowitzDebt, etc,.Jun 18 15:10
schestowitzEven educationJun 18 15:10
twittermedicineJun 18 15:10
schestowitzMost people either take loans or have parents compromiseJun 18 15:10
schestowitzMedicine tooJun 18 15:10
schestowitzAnd treatmentJun 18 15:10
twitter66% of US bankrupts happen because of medicineJun 18 15:10
twitter75% of those were insured when they got sickJun 18 15:10
schestowitzWorking hard to be allowed survivalJun 18 15:10
schestowitzBut the NHS here is not so insaneJun 18 15:11
schestowitzI could get treatment free of change for basic thingsJun 18 15:11
DaemonMDVschestowitz: You watch, everytime the Democrats are in power, they try to rain down free money on career welfare mothersJun 18 15:11
schestowitztwitter: I saw that tooJun 18 15:11
twitterthose who can't work here are eventually ruined by their medical bills.Jun 18 15:11
schestowitzWas it in ... I can't recal whrre I read it last weekJun 18 15:11
schestowitzI think RMS linked to itJun 18 15:11
twitteryes he didJun 18 15:11
schestowitzDaemonMDV: baby machines you mean?Jun 18 15:12
DaemonMDVpretty muchJun 18 15:12
schestowitzThat's how the slogan goesJun 18 15:12
DaemonMDVthe Republicans at least got that rightJun 18 15:12
DaemonMDVwhen they leaned on Clinton for the welfare reformJun 18 15:12
schestowitzAt least the one on taboid talk showsJun 18 15:12
DaemonMDVin '96Jun 18 15:12
schestowitzLike Springer, Oprah, Lake, etc.Jun 18 15:12
schestowitzSpringer shows one problem in the US.Jun 18 15:13
schestowitzFor two reasons:Jun 18 15:13
schestowitz1) people on the show are insaneJun 18 15:13
schestowitz2) People watch the show (i.e. that's what the audience wants)Jun 18 15:13
twitterBroadcast is insane.Jun 18 15:13
DaemonMDVschestowitz: They turned what was a permanent gravy train that just kept adding more money every time you had a kid to a system of temporary cash help that was capped at 5 years of your life total and 2.5 years at a timeJun 18 15:13
DaemonMDVfor no more than 2 childrenJun 18 15:13
*Np237 has quit ("The spice extends life")Jun 18 15:14
twitterThe don't really know what people want, which is why they lose audience despite their monopoly.Jun 18 15:14
DaemonMDVand you have to look for work to keep claiming benefitsJun 18 15:14
DaemonMDVit's busted down the welfare rolls to about 1/4th of what they were in 1995Jun 18 15:14
DaemonMDVas far as baby machines go anywayJun 18 15:14
DaemonMDVso they did goodJun 18 15:14
DaemonMDVthey do that sometimes....rarelyJun 18 15:15
twitterUltimately, broadcasters are no smarter, funnier or better informed than anyone else, but they are under significant restrictions by their corporate owners and government masters.Jun 18 15:15
DaemonMDVthe old system paid you for every kid you had til they turned 18Jun 18 15:16
DaemonMDVand didn't make you go find workJun 18 15:16
twitterRMS recommends avoiding broadcast and he's right.  "Mainstream" media is so full of misconceptions and outright lies that you are better off with nothing.Jun 18 15:16
DaemonMDVso these women would have 5-6 kids and get on food stamps on top of cash payoutJun 18 15:16
DaemonMDVand just live off their kidsJun 18 15:16
splosionDaemonMDV: harping on about welfare wins easy votes, but corporate welfare makes social welfare look like a piss in the ocean in comparison.Jun 18 15:17
DaemonMDVthat's the kind of crap that the Democrats push throughJun 18 15:17
DaemonMDVthey love them some welfare cases :)Jun 18 15:17
splosionand there isn't a single candidate who would dare cut corporate welfareJun 18 15:17
twitterTruth comes from people who do things and know about things.  You can find that in blogs and ... normal conversation.  Broadcast corrupts normal conversation even when you avoid direct contamination.Jun 18 15:17
twittergotta go.  Keep up the good work, Roy.Jun 18 15:17
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.")Jun 18 15:18
DaemonMDVsplosion: The bank bailout was the biggest corporate welfare swmash and grab in my lifetimeJun 18 15:18
splosionyupJun 18 15:18
DaemonMDV*smashJun 18 15:18
DaemonMDVthe banks essentially wrote their own loan applicationJun 18 15:18
splosionThankfully in the UK, people aren't complaining about welfare families as much anymore now that so many people are joblessJun 18 15:19
DaemonMDVon their own termsJun 18 15:19
DaemonMDVand sent it to the politicians they boughtJun 18 15:19
DaemonMDVwell, when everyone depends on the government, that's not a good thing eitherJun 18 15:19
schestowitzThey make new jobsJun 18 15:20
DaemonMDVit just increases the burden on the people that still are workingJun 18 15:20
schestowitzCreate somethingJun 18 15:20
schestowitzLike the New DealJun 18 15:20
splosion"Familes on welfare" has always been a non-argument. It is not the problem people make it out to be. It's just a crutch, a scapegoat to distract people from the wider issues with the economyJun 18 15:20
DaemonMDVand makes the people dependent on the welfare totally dependent on the current regimeJun 18 15:20
schestowitzDependsJun 18 15:20
schestowitzAre those familar on welfare because of the childrenJun 18 15:20
schestowitzOr did the family come before job lossesJun 18 15:20
schestowitzThat's the questionJun 18 15:20
DaemonMDVwrongJun 18 15:20
DaemonMDVit's all documentedJun 18 15:21
schestowitzSometimes the feeding of the unwilling exacerbates the issueJun 18 15:21
DaemonMDVhow many bgillions that TANF has savedJun 18 15:21
DaemonMDVvs the baby machine polcies of the DemocratsJun 18 15:21
DaemonMDV*billionsJun 18 15:21
DaemonMDVhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Assistance_for_Needy_FamiliesJun 18 15:21
DaemonMDVcheck that outJun 18 15:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] DHS Has a Blog < http://ping.fm/VRwgS >Jun 18 15:22
schestowitz /s/machine/boomer/Jun 18 15:22
DaemonMDVin 11 years it reduced the number of baby machines taking public handouts to a fourth of what it wasJun 18 15:22
DaemonMDVthe Democrat system was rife with abuseJun 18 15:23
DaemonMDVwith at least 9 million people getting handouts that didn't even need themJun 18 15:23
DaemonMDVthat's like an entire state that is on welfareJun 18 15:23
DaemonMDVwe could call it WelfarelandJun 18 15:24
DaemonMDVwhere 9 million people jsut live off the governmentJun 18 15:24
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 15:24
DaemonMDVso yeah, the government cut off 9 million leeches that were perfectly capable of working and were gaming the systemJun 18 15:24
DaemonMDVand another thing, this government help with "child care" for "working families" is bs as wellJun 18 15:25
DaemonMDVif you can't pay for a babysitter, then you shouldn't have kidsJun 18 15:26
DaemonMDVso yeah, Obama inherited a $1.3 trillion mess (the documented part of the debt) and swelled it to $1.8 trillionJun 18 15:26
DaemonMDVin his first few months in office he's done more damage than the last 3 years of Bush's spending spreeJun 18 15:27
DaemonMDVthat takes skill, to squander half a trillion dollars in two months and have 70% of the public still like youJun 18 15:27
DaemonMDVso he is a good bullshit artist, I'll give him that much at the very leastJun 18 15:28
DaemonMDVschestowitz: That Stephen Norris Capital tried to buy SCO in April of last yearJun 18 15:30
splosionWhat a can of worms in the Novell-debt comments!Jun 18 15:30
DaemonMDVthen backed offJun 18 15:30
DaemonMDVprobably figured they could come back about now and get a better dealJun 18 15:30
DaemonMDVI still don't see what value there would be in owning SCOJun 18 15:31
EruaranJust installed Ubuntu 9.04 on a BenQ R58-HV07 notebook.Jun 18 15:31
DaemonMDVowning the rights to UNIX code seems to be like a mummy's curseJun 18 15:31
DaemonMDVlmaoJun 18 15:31
EruaranPerfection.Jun 18 15:31
DaemonMDVUbuntu sucksJun 18 15:31
DaemonMDVthey broke most of my stuffJun 18 15:31
DaemonMDVtheir device mounting just rapid fires til it gets it rightJun 18 15:32
schestowitzDaemonMDV: quit the trollish attitudeJun 18 15:32
DaemonMDVand creates a bunch of mounts you can't unmountJun 18 15:32
DaemonMDVseriously, it's that badJun 18 15:32
splosionI'm still waiting on a bunch of new hardware before I jump ship to Debian. The performance is just better than Ubuntu. More stable etcJun 18 15:32
DaemonMDVit could at least CLEAR the entries that didn't mount correctlyJun 18 15:32
EruaranUbuntu+BenQ=Style.Jun 18 15:32
DaemonMDVwould that be too useful though? :)Jun 18 15:33
_Hicham_DaemonMDV : go to openSUSEJun 18 15:33
EruaranBenQ's R58 even has orange lights on it that perfectly match Ubuntu's default colour scheme ;)Jun 18 15:33
_Hicham_and change ur nick to DeamonSUSEJun 18 15:33
DaemonMDVI think that's what Windows does which is why the mp3 players jsut let it try probing them like thatJun 18 15:33
splosionXP lurches onwards for another year http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/operating-systems/windows/news/index.cfm?newsid=15297Jun 18 15:33
DaemonMDVonly Ubuntu is too stupid to clear the unsuccessful mountsJun 18 15:33
EruaranUbuntu has installed and done everything to perfection.Jun 18 15:34
_Hicham_DaemonMDV : Ubuntu doesn't like uJun 18 15:35
EruaranThere's nothing to do. No fiddling about. No drivers to install. Just sitting hear drinking tea.Jun 18 15:35
_Hicham_it is that simpleJun 18 15:35
Eruaran:)Jun 18 15:35
_Hicham_why won't u be realistic?Jun 18 15:35
schestowitzEric Lai from the About Redmond blog spreads cheat shots taken at FOSS: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=roi&articleId=340052&taxonomyId=74&intsrc=kc_topJun 18 15:35
DaemonMDVUbuntu is stupid and treats MTP like a file systemJun 18 15:36
schestowitz_Hicham_: I don't think it's.a Ubuntu-only problem ("Ubuntu doesn't like u")Jun 18 15:36
DaemonMDVwhich it isn't, nor should it be browsed like oneJun 18 15:36
DaemonMDVMTP is a database on top of VFATJun 18 15:36
MinceRfilesystems are databases too.Jun 18 15:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] datz.com - a year's unlimited MP3s for £100. Anyone know anything about this?Jun 18 15:37
DaemonMDVit's designed to be accessed through a media playerJun 18 15:37
MinceRit's designed? :>Jun 18 15:37
DaemonMDVyeahJun 18 15:37
DaemonMDVThythmbox 0.12.2 actually has very good support for MTPJun 18 15:37
DaemonMDVsaves you from dicking around with playlists and album artJun 18 15:38
DaemonMDVit just transfers it allJun 18 15:38
DaemonMDV*RhythmboxJun 18 15:38
DaemonMDVI drag an album from my library onto the device and that's all the more complicated it has to beJun 18 15:38
DaemonMDVwhich makes MTP a good thing since I don't have to manually hunt down album art, create playlists, copy them to the folders myself, etcJun 18 15:39
DaemonMDVas long as the tags are anywhere close to right, the media player will figure it out for youJun 18 15:39
DaemonMDValmost too easy as far as Linux goesJun 18 15:40
DaemonMDVlike taking candy from a baby, not pecking around on a keyboard in a BASH terminal wondering what the HELL is going onJun 18 15:40
DaemonMDVin a word, perfectionJun 18 15:40
DaemonMDVjust don't let Banshee touch your device and you'll be fine :DJun 18 15:41
DaemonMDVit's unfortunate that Linux can't come up with any kind of standards for anything, otherwise they could probably do sqlite on top of ext2fs or somethingJun 18 15:42
DaemonMDVwith reasonable resultsJun 18 15:42
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DaemonMDVit's easier and more guaranteed to reverse engineer Microsoft protocols than to get all Linux distributors to agree on somethingJun 18 15:43
DaemonMDVthat's fairly sadJun 18 15:43
_Hicham_DaemonMDV : did Banshee screw up ur device?Jun 18 15:43
DaemonMDVBanshee's tag editor sucks and it likes to copy over a lot of metadata that only Banshee understandsJun 18 15:44
DaemonMDVso if you like ruining every track that it tagsJun 18 15:44
DaemonMDVgo right aheadJun 18 15:44
DaemonMDVRhythmbox complies pretty strictly with the MTP standard (as of 0.12.2 anyway)Jun 18 15:45
DaemonMDVyou shouldn't even have any trouble using Rhythmbox sometimes and Windows Media Player sometimes on the same deviceJun 18 15:45
DaemonMDVI've used Windows Media Player on XP to import everything from my player that I put on it in LinuxJun 18 15:46
DaemonMDVand WMP even got the album art rightJun 18 15:46
DaemonMDVbut Banshee will corrupt and possibly require you to format to get rid of the damageJun 18 15:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Microsoft/Apple impact: '"Openness is a very vague term," says Ovum's analyst Nathan Burley.' http://ping.fm/eIraPJun 18 15:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Fucking fuck. FUCK. Worse than that, homeopathic antimatter: http://is.gd/15oUq ATOMIC UNIVERSE ANNIHILATING RAAAAAAGEJun 18 15:47
DaemonMDVfor some reason, the Mandriva Wine packages at Winehq.org don't support PulseaudioJun 18 15:49
DaemonMDVso it's back to the dark agesJun 18 15:49
DaemonMDVwhere you have to shut down anything that has a lock on the sound device before using itJun 18 15:50
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MinceRor just use dmix, like any clueful user wouldJun 18 15:54
MinceR(unless your sound device does mixing in hw, of course)Jun 18 15:54
splosionAh, Solang compiles on Ubuntu now. Go go go!Jun 18 15:57
*splosion compilesJun 18 15:57
DaemonMDVUbuntu has compilers? I thought they took those away so you couldn't hurt yourself /sarcasmJun 18 15:57
DaemonMDVthe terminal is nextJun 18 15:57
splosionI've never had a joykilling unfixable problem in ubuntu. I just can't bring myself to hate it. sorry :PJun 18 15:58
DaemonMDVUbuntu has the revolving dealbreaking bug policyJun 18 15:59
DaemonMDVevery release fixes something and breaks something else terriblyJun 18 15:59
schestowitzGreen Dam built on copyright, open source violations < http://government.zdnet.com/?p=4961 >Jun 18 15:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why does the CIA invest in a Free software project that scans? http://ping.fm/BYzeGJun 18 16:07
_Mutex_mabey you can get the EU to fine the chinese govmntJun 18 16:07
splosionhttp://www.istartedsomething.com/20090613/windows-7-uac-code-injection-vulnerability-video-demonstration-source-code-released/Jun 18 16:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Just set my personal best playing Monochrome by The Ruse on #JamLegend, 35,577 points! http://is.gd/13RgoJun 18 16:12
schestowitzDirect link: http://www.pretentiousname.com/misc/win7_uac_whitelist2.htmlJun 18 16:14
splosioncool thanksJun 18 16:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UAC in Vista7 exposes the OS to attacks: http://ping.fm/Kki5v Exploits even.Jun 18 16:17
splosionI remember a virus from years back that made the arm on the hard-disk move back and forth from its minimum to its maximum extent, over and over. After enough time, the magnetic polarity shifted, and the arm would move up and down instead, physically striking the platter, and thus destroying your hard-disk.Jun 18 16:17
*splosion sighJun 18 16:17
splosionthey don't make viruses like that anymoreJun 18 16:17
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schestowitzNovell caught a bug that kills network cardsJun 18 16:20
splosionpermanently?Jun 18 16:20
taconethat was some time ago, i think.Jun 18 16:21
taconeyep, destroyed the firmware iircJun 18 16:21
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schestowitz"But Nvu has not been updated since 2005; so in effect, KompoZer is the new Nvu, fixing many of its bugs and adding to its feature set." Wow. http://www.practicalecommerce.com/articles/1148-The-PeC-Review-KompoZer-is-a-Capable-Free-Web-Authoring-SystemJun 18 16:22
schestowitzsplosion: yes.Jun 18 16:22
schestowitzit was beta of opensuse 11.0 iircJun 18 16:22
splosionimpressiveJun 18 16:22
schestowitzalso sled builds Jun 18 16:22
schestowitzand sle* in generalJun 18 16:22
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schestowitzPartly Intel's faultJun 18 16:23
schestowitzCIA's Technology Arm Taps Open Source for Enterprise Search http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/166772/cias_technology_arm_taps_open_source_for_enterprise_search.htmlJun 18 16:23
splosionAh, series 4 of Screenwipe is on the BBC's iplayerJun 18 16:30
*splosion downloadsJun 18 16:30
splosionSomeone should make a GUI for get_iplayer. Makes the BBC's iPlayer bearable for Linux users with a slow connectionJun 18 16:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Students at Seneca are GNU/Linux users. http://ping.fm/ElRDGJun 18 16:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] WA Today covers FOSS, but disappointingly describes it as matter of cost alone http://ping.fm/4OEkN http://ping.fm/lXrb9Jun 18 16:37
_Mutex_trouble is for most people "Low cost" == cheap.  and free even cheaper.Jun 18 16:39
_Mutex_""It's amazingly easy to start," he says. "You just need to get onto the internet."Jun 18 16:40
_Mutex_therein lies the problem, how do you get on the internet if you dont have an OS,Jun 18 16:41
schestowitz71% (193 votes) say no to MonoJun 18 16:41
_Mutex_so by the time you do get on the internet you allready have an operating system!Jun 18 16:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Poll: Mono in Linux < http://ping.fm/xsUrO >Jun 18 16:42
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splosionThis thing is taking ages to make. SheeshJun 18 16:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Photo KDE Tutorial 1-5: Perspective Adjustment < http://ping.fm/LYUNs >Jun 18 16:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Tell Mandriva what you want in the next release: My ideas for Mandriva 2010.0 < http://ping.fm/2EQBl >Jun 18 16:52
DaemonMDVless integration of XulrunnerJun 18 16:58
DaemonMDVMore Webkit cowbellJun 18 16:58
DaemonMDV:DJun 18 16:58
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Internet Explorer 8 – Get the Propaganda! http://ping.fm/SR019Jun 18 17:02
DaemonMDV"I'd like to see less things depending on Xulrunner since GNOME itself is trying to move more towards Webkit.Jun 18 17:02
DaemonMDVIt seems that you guys already use GTK-Webkit for lots of stuff anyway, so less dependency on Xulrunner would be nice,Jun 18 17:02
DaemonMDVHopefully the next release of Epiphany supports Webkit, which will turn it into a pretty fast browser, something Gecko has problems with on Linux."Jun 18 17:02
DaemonMDVmy replyJun 18 17:02
splosionnoob question here, when symlinking a shortcut, which way round do they go? I can never rememberJun 18 17:03
splosionoh yeah, the real file first, the link second. duh.Jun 18 17:05
neighborlee:)Jun 18 17:05
splosionw00tJun 18 17:06
splosionSolang up and runningJun 18 17:06
splosionImporting ten thousand photos. Go go goJun 18 17:07
DaemonMDVI have no idea why they're trying to replace Pidgin with EmpathyJun 18 17:07
DaemonMDVEmpathy can't do a lot of things Pisgin canJun 18 17:08
DaemonMDVand it needs libpurple anyway, which is 90% of PidginJun 18 17:08
schestowitzWhere Linux beats the Hypephone: " Differences from the iPhone include a physical slide-out QWERTY keyboard, and the ability to keep multiple applications open simultaneously." http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9134498Jun 18 17:09
schestowitzneighborlee: see http://ping.fm/xsUrOJun 18 17:10
neighborleehmmmmJun 18 17:11
neighborleeI wonder who rambo is ;)Jun 18 17:12
neighborleenice touch though on bringing in gnome compared to qt into it..how ironic indeed o_0Jun 18 17:12
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schestowitzWhy Is the PC vs. Mac war still raging? http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9134499Jun 18 17:18
DaemonMDVcause Apple is competing with VistaJun 18 17:18
DaemonMDVnot like that's hardJun 18 17:18
DaemonMDVMicrosoft is arguing with the one thing they haveJun 18 17:18
DaemonMDVthey're cheaperJun 18 17:18
DaemonMDVbut if they want to bring up cheap, Linux is freeJun 18 17:19
neighborleeI see already mono 'fanboys' are attacking that postingJun 18 17:19
*Omar87 Nods in agreement with DaemonMDV.Jun 18 17:19
schestowitzI dindn't pay attentionJun 18 17:19
schestowitzThough it would not surprise me, eitherJun 18 17:19
neighborleewell it was sorta easy attack though, since someone ( a few) used the word 'hate' rferring to mono,,,so they seized opportunityJun 18 17:19
schestowitzHehe.Jun 18 17:20
schestowitzHate, zeal, loonJun 18 17:20
schestowitzJust put in some crazy word thereJun 18 17:20
neighborleeDaemonMDV, that is about all they have now..barely...Jun 18 17:20
schestowitzThat's why I don't say "fanboys"Jun 18 17:20
schestowitzI say MOno proponantsJun 18 17:20
schestowitz*ponentsJun 18 17:20
neighborleeI dont either normallhyJun 18 17:20
neighborleethat why I put it in "" ""Jun 18 17:20
neighborleethat'sJun 18 17:20
schestowitzOtherwise it's a daemonising tacticJun 18 17:20
neighborleeof courseJun 18 17:20
schestowitzLet them do the ugly thingsJun 18 17:21
schestowitzSadly, there's gutter on the other side tooJun 18 17:21
schestowitzZealots like "fink"Jun 18 17:21
schestowitzAppearently having an english meaningJun 18 17:21
schestowitzAnd the Mono proponets so a witch hunt ATMJun 18 17:21
schestowitzThey want to prepare a wiki about meJun 18 17:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] ROFLMHO!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6WCRA4kSKY&feature=player_embeddedJun 18 17:22
schestowitzWhat's spooky is how they go about collecting libel and trying to stick it togetherJun 18 17:22
schestowitzI guess they need to shut me down somehowJun 18 17:22
neighborleehey.vote tally is decent total vote wize,,and NO wizeJun 18 17:22
neighborleealmost 300 in and 72% noJun 18 17:22
neighborleegranted 300 isn't huge.but its a fair # anywayJun 18 17:23
neighborleeschestowitz, fink is irrelvant isnt he...you have already distanced yourself from that faikJun 18 17:23
neighborleethe more its discussed the closer it remainsJun 18 17:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fedora statistics: If I’m lyin’, I’m dyin’. < http://ping.fm/bYOtM >Jun 18 17:27
Omar87schestowitz: LOL! Did you watch my video? :DJun 18 17:29
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DaemonMDVis Ubuntu still useing crAppArmor in Karmic?Jun 18 17:31
DaemonMDVwhy they insist on using something that doesn't protect you that will never be merged into the mainline kernel is just beyond meJun 18 17:32
schestowitzOmar87: yes, it's an old videoJun 18 17:32
Omar87schestowitz: lol, yeah. :)Jun 18 17:33
schestowitzneighborlee: yes, but they have a conviction they try to justify so not only do they fraudulently accuse me but they go furtherJun 18 17:33
schestowitzNow they are on a campaign to scoop up every little bit of dirt they think might existJun 18 17:33
schestowitzSo other people whom I don't know like some user in fsdaily they try to claim is "my shill"Jun 18 17:33
schestowitzIt's actually quite amusingJun 18 17:34
neighborleeschestowitz, welcome to the campaign trail I guess ;)Jun 18 17:34
schestowitzThey pretend I'm some kind of a secret guerrilla robotic organisation and a MS-hired shillJun 18 17:34
schestowitzI remember when PJ had similar lies ascribed to hereJun 18 17:34
neighborleethats what opponents do..try to smear...oldest trick in book..and when its clear they speak with nobasis in truth their smears become harder, and their tactics harsher ;)Jun 18 17:35
neighborleejust like presidential campaigns ;)Jun 18 17:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Great cartoon: http://ping.fm/t3ENZJun 18 17:37
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splosionhttp://up.mibbit.com/up/2QFCVetl.png Solang looking pretty good.Jun 18 17:42
schestowitzAmazing Desktop Wallpapers: the Castle-Themed Edition http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/the-geek-blog/customization/amazing-desktop-wallpapers-the-castle-themed-edition/Jun 18 17:43
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schestowitzTo Mono Or Not To Mono http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/06/to_mono_or_not.html;jsessionid=S2QK0EQ302AIGQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVNJun 18 17:47
schestowitzThis debate is awokenJun 18 17:47
schestowitzThere's more even in Linux radio showsJun 18 17:47
schestowitzLatest Linux outlaws and TLLTS for exampleJun 18 17:47
splosionSolang really could be an F-Stop killer by the looks of this. It's really impressive, especially for a first releaseJun 18 17:47
neighborleedoes look nice..Jun 18 17:48
neighborleeschestowitz, hmm nice, more visibility ;0-Jun 18 17:48
schestowitz"Fedora feels it's something to worry about, and that's why there are plans on the table to exclude Mono from Fedora 12 -- in part due to the fact that applications that would nominally require Mono are being swapped for others that don't. A big part of it is unease about the licensing, but no small amount of unease comes from the fact that .NET itself is a Microsoft creation."Jun 18 17:49
schestowitz"Should Fedora exclude Mono from Fedora? Sure, why not? It's their distribution; they're free to include or exclude whatever they like from it. There's nothing stopping anyone from adding it on after the fact, or creating a whole derivative distribution that adds Mono back in."Jun 18 17:49
splosionI wonder if Solang will cause as much drama as Gnote did. Probably not, but you never can tell these days, now that the Mono stuff is being debated moreJun 18 17:49
neighborleeoh im sure it willJun 18 17:51
splosionA bot over on EFnet just told me, "Vostok, Antarctica (78.4�S/106.9�E); Updated: 6:00 AM VOST (June 16, 2009); Conditions: Clear; Temperature: -59�C (-73�F); High/Low: Unavailable; Humidity: 31%; Dew Point: -63�C (-81�F); Wind: WSW at 15 KPH (9 MPH)"Jun 18 17:51
neighborleeyes look at tomboy | gnote ;)Jun 18 17:51
splosionjeepers creepers that's coldJun 18 17:51
splosionYeah. Well I guess we'll see. It's a bit of a pain getting it to work on Ubuntu at the moment, but things'll changeJun 18 17:52
neighborleeim not in the programmer loop per se,,but why not extend gthumb, it already does some things <faik> that f-spot doesnot, or is the codebase too old ??Jun 18 17:53
splosionI wouldn't know. Gnote is a bit of an and-the-kitchen-sink app for me anyway. I just want a simple photo managerJun 18 17:55
splosionArs investigates the dodgy claims about IE8 from MS' latest "Get the facts" nonsense: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/microsoft-ie8-beats-firefox-and-chrome-in-7-out-of-10-areas.arsJun 18 17:56
schestowitzSolang looks good. The fonts (not related) tooJun 18 17:57
neighborleeit does yesJun 18 17:57
schestowitzBut Picasa has some impressive bits (Alas it's proprietary)Jun 18 17:57
schestowitzAnd it uses wine/DX!! :-pJun 18 17:57
neighborlee:)Jun 18 17:57
splosionschestowitz: The fonts I use are Minya NouvelleJun 18 17:57
splosionTagging isn't working yet unfortunatelyJun 18 17:58
schestowitzArs mostly parrots MSJun 18 17:58
schestowitzNot a good thing to link toiJun 18 17:59
schestowitz*toJun 18 17:59
neighborleehonestly I dont use note taking app, I use  common apps in linux and say wordpad in wista..but since  note apps are seemingly default in vista I guess its good that at least we have gnote ;)Jun 18 17:59
splosionMaybe, but when MS-lovers are critical of MS propaganda it's worth a look!Jun 18 18:00
neighborleeintesting how things change..note taking comes to win7 along with odf save ability in wordpad ;)Jun 18 18:00
neighborleeinteresting-Jun 18 18:00
schestowitzI didn't realise someone had Carla's address... http://www.stefanoforenza.com/linux-todays-editor-invitation-for-mono-fans/Jun 18 18:00
splosionit's frisbee time. bblJun 18 18:01
schestowitzsplosion: I don't know that authorJun 18 18:01
schestowitzbbl as wellJun 18 18:01
neighborleeLOLJun 18 18:01
neighborleesounds fun guys, have a blast.me going too..to the fields, THE FIELDS!!Jun 18 18:02
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trmancoschestowitz, http://open-mania.com/estatisticas/Jun 18 18:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Já viram a página de estatisticas do !openmania? -> http://is.gd/15uOHJun 18 18:37
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splosionhttp://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4075096396.html?kc=rssJun 18 18:58
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splosionhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=4677  --- More criticism of Microsoft's dodgy browser campaignJun 18 19:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @schestowitz Excuse?Jun 18 19:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @schestowitz Sorry, I meant "Excuse me"?Jun 18 19:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @schestowitz Oh okay, I just got it, lol. Sorry again. :)Jun 18 19:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] strawberries fed coffee grounds=huge success! v nice. not sure if actually caffeinated. coffee kept slugs off 'em too.Jun 18 19:52
_Mutex_well coffee is one of the 3 major food groups, beer, coffee and pizzaJun 18 19:55
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] !ubuntu should start thinking in replacing Rhythmbox with ExaileJun 18 20:17
_Hicham_1trmanco : why not with audacious?Jun 18 20:22
trmanco_Hicham_1, audacious is primitiveJun 18 20:22
trmancoI just testing music playersJun 18 20:22
trmancoExaile is better to include in a default install than rhythmboxJun 18 20:23
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_Hicham_1trmanco : open up a ticketJun 18 20:26
_Hicham_1trmanco : does it have an equalizer?Jun 18 20:28
_Hicham_1I didn't like bansheeJun 18 20:29
MinceRwow, it's "primitive" now?Jun 18 20:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @tiagotex: Microsoft Vista Sucks! OMFG http://bit.ly/VGVXd || hehe Windows Cement :DJun 18 20:32
trmancoMinceR, what I should of said is that Audacious doesn't have enough "bloat" to be included in a default install :-PJun 18 20:33
trmancoI'm a big fan of audacious myselfJun 18 20:33
trmancoI even was a big fan of Xmms back thenJun 18 20:33
MinceRwell, some people can't wrap their mind around the fact that a file system can be used to organize and locate songsJun 18 20:34
trmancoyeahJun 18 20:36
trmancothere is no need for bloated sqlite databasesJun 18 20:36
trmancobut I love and always will love audacious because of it's fantastic EQJun 18 20:37
trmancoit has a fabulous sound outputJun 18 20:37
_Hicham_1audacious2 doesn't have pulseaudio output yetJun 18 20:37
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trmancoI'm still on 1.5Jun 18 20:39
trmancoI don't know what the differences are, I'll have to check the changelogJun 18 20:39
_Hicham_I didn't notice any changesJun 18 20:39
_Hicham_http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5117/screenshotc.pngJun 18 20:41
trmancowtf is gvfs?Jun 18 20:41
trmancoI like greenJun 18 20:42
_Hicham_gvfs is gnome virtual filesystemJun 18 20:42
trmanco_Hicham_, have you tried the new skinJun 18 20:42
trmancoaudacious2 -i newuiJun 18 20:42
_Hicham_trmanco : it is the default theme in openSUSE 11.2Jun 18 20:43
trmancolooks niceJun 18 20:43
_Hicham_first thing I did is remove mono crapJun 18 20:43
_Hicham_+ libgdiplusJun 18 20:43
_Hicham_so banshee+fspot+beagle all disappearedJun 18 20:44
trmancogoodJun 18 20:44
trmancoit uses beagle?Jun 18 20:44
_Hicham_yesJun 18 20:44
trmancogeezeJun 18 20:44
_Hicham_it has even beagle-firefox by defaultJun 18 20:44
_Hicham_but i removed every beagle packageJun 18 20:44
_Hicham_except oneJun 18 20:44
_Hicham_which vital for gnomeJun 18 20:45
neighborleewait..rhythmbox seems to offer more features still atm....im not seeing some things listed on exaile that RB has though wikipedia maybe one rb does not ( is that huge ?)., or is there some other reason(s) ?Jun 18 20:45
neighborlee_Hicham_, have they finally made removing mono depending things reasonably clean  or are there stilll severe RED warnings ;0-Jun 18 20:45
_Hicham_neighborlee : no, it is damn easyJun 18 20:45
_Hicham_less than 10 seconds are u r doneJun 18 20:46
MinceRgvfs is the single most useful feature of gnome :>Jun 18 20:46
neighborleewell thats something :)Jun 18 20:46
_Hicham_I have a mono free openSUSEJun 18 20:46
_Hicham_:)Jun 18 20:46
neighborlee_Hicham_, does it keep mono from coming in as depend ?Jun 18 20:46
MinceRlol @ winamp skinJun 18 20:46
_Hicham_neighborlee : noJun 18 20:46
_Hicham_as long as u don't ask for some mono based appJun 18 20:47
neighborleeyesJun 18 20:47
_Hicham_MinceR : did u like the Winamp skin?Jun 18 20:47
MinceRi didJun 18 20:47
MinceRi prefer Osmosis though :>Jun 18 20:48
_Hicham_MinceR : here u go : http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Winamp+Classic+Skin?content=64790Jun 18 20:49
MinceR:)Jun 18 20:50
_Hicham_people were describing openSUSE as being bloatedJun 18 20:52
_Hicham_this is just a mythJun 18 20:52
MinceRdunno, i describe opensuse as crapJun 18 20:52
_Hicham_MinceR : why?Jun 18 20:52
MinceRwell, after hearing its bad reputation, i installed it for a friend because he insisted on using it (iirc because his workplace used it too or something)Jun 18 20:53
_Hicham_and?Jun 18 20:53
MinceRwe used netinstall, which turned out to want the ip address of the ftp server and the path within itJun 18 20:53
MinceRwhich is horribly stupidJun 18 20:53
MinceRbut we managed to install itJun 18 20:53
MinceRthen it turned out to install a daemon that made the keyboard unusableJun 18 20:54
MinceRbasically it had an insanely fast autorepeat with a minimal delay, effectivelyJun 18 20:54
MinceRbut it wasn't the keyboard settingJun 18 20:54
MinceRi couldn't find this out, he said that he had found that killing that daemon solved the problemJun 18 20:54
MinceRi don't know what the daemon wasJun 18 20:54
schestowitztrmanco: we need to also encourage people to change fspotJun 18 20:54
schestowitzSolang?Jun 18 20:55
MinceRso i'd say their bad reputation was confirmed in this caseJun 18 20:55
_Hicham_gnote is in openSUSE factoryJun 18 20:55
schestowitzGnote is already sliding into FedoraJun 18 20:55
_Hicham_as a 1-Click InstallJun 18 20:55
MinceRit's so bad i've heard the hungarian saying "suse sose", which means "never suse"Jun 18 20:55
_Hicham_MinceR : excuse me, but openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 is the most responsive distro I have used till nowJun 18 20:56
_Hicham_it is faster than any other distro I have usedJun 18 20:56
schestowitzbrbJun 18 20:57
_Hicham_okJun 18 20:57
trmancoschestowitz, and not replace rhythmbox with something worseJun 18 21:00
_Hicham_trmanco : banshee for exampleJun 18 21:03
trmancoyeah, especially that oneJun 18 21:03
_Hicham_to be honest with u, it is slow even on openSUSEJun 18 21:04
trmancoof course it isJun 18 21:04
trmancoit's mono dependentJun 18 21:04
MinceRsounds like an addiction :>Jun 18 21:08
trmancoit isJun 18 21:09
_Hicham_addiction to what?Jun 18 21:10
trmancomonoJun 18 21:11
trmancononoJun 18 21:11
_Hicham_there no mononono for rpm distrosJun 18 21:12
_Hicham_I think I am gonna create oneJun 18 21:12
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trmancogo aheadJun 18 21:17
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schestowitz"I'm an end-user, plain and simple. I have two almost identical apps, Banshee and Rhytembox. Now, can someone please tell me why Rhytembox uses 25mb of my 1500Mb memory, whilst Banshee uses a full 500?Jun 18 21:20
schestowitzOh, Banshee has a nice cover fetch feature. It also has a nice optional (not installed by default) service that creates a smart playlist. (which I didnt install during my testing)"Jun 18 21:20
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/16/debian-not-including-mono/#commentsJun 18 21:20
schestowitz^new commentJun 18 21:20
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trmancohttp://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/06/17/june_2009_web_server_survey.htmlJun 18 21:24
*schestowitz doesn't pay attention to Netcraft anymoreJun 18 21:26
schestowitzBN is ranked ~1900th in NetcraftJun 18 21:26
Carl_Rover2k12schestowitz: did you read the logs from earlier this morning?Jun 18 21:32
schestowitzWhich one/s?Jun 18 21:33
Carl_Rover2k12schestowitz: the one about how people are setting up proxies to help Iranians communicate without government easedropping: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/06/17/2017226/The-State-of-Irans-Ongoing-NetwarJun 18 21:35
Carl_Rover2k12and someone even established an article to help in how to setup one and coordinate it with others: http://blog.austinheap.com.nyud.net:8080/ There is now even a channel on Freenode dedicated to this called #irantechJun 18 21:36
Carl_Rover2k12you think this is for real or just a honeypot unknowingly help the government track down individuals? Also do you think it will help much?Jun 18 21:37
schestowitzThey can track connections to proxies anywayJun 18 21:38
schestowitzSo they don't rewuire honeypotsJun 18 21:38
schestowitzThey just need to keep track of open proxiesJun 18 21:38
Carl_Rover2k12schestowitz: but the guide seems to called for a closed ones without headers, would that help?Jun 18 21:39
neighborleeschestowitz, hmm inersting.dante dont recal this one..another leaving gnome..and more hate from EETJun 18 21:41
Carl_Rover2k12schestowitz: they have also claimed to block government IPs, but in Iran there are so many government affiliated militia groups that some individuals working for such would eventually stumble across one of those proxies.Jun 18 21:42
Carl_Rover2k12schestowitz: btw, I can't believe M$ has such a high share of host servicing softwareJun 18 21:45
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trmancohttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3609/3629069606_a72bf52c22_o.jpgJun 18 22:15
trmancohttp://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/06/18/songbird-12-is-here/Jun 18 22:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Songbird 1.2 is here: http://is.gd/15COlJun 18 22:22
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schestowitzCarl_Rover2k12: catching upJun 18 22:30
schestowitzLots of heckling in BN today, so I got distractedJun 18 22:30
schestowitzCarl_Rover2k12: I used to run an open proxyJun 18 22:31
schestowitzI password-protected and shut it when it was overused by peopleJun 18 22:31
schestowitzphpproxy enables this to be set up easilyJun 18 22:31
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splosionhttp://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/2009/06/on-novell.html interesting look at NovellJun 18 22:50
Carl_Rover2k12Novell was hip?Jun 18 22:53
Carl_Rover2k12jk, I guess it poignant of how M$ works to cooperate with companies and then screws them by designing software right after the marketplace of their partner and state the virtues to complete migration to their software while lambasting their formal partner. It all started with IBM afterall.Jun 18 22:56
Carl_Rover2k12management figures that with full M$ integration things only get betterJun 18 22:57
splosionHistory repeats itself, huhJun 18 22:59
_Hicham_Mono doesn't support .NET 3 yetJun 18 23:01
_Hicham_there is a long roadJun 18 23:01
_Hicham_some .NET programs on Windows have been successfulJun 18 23:02
_Hicham_like NHC ( Notebook Hardware Control )Jun 18 23:02
_Hicham_Visual Studio itself needs .NETJun 18 23:04
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trmancohttp://www.reddit.com/tb/8tmbrJun 18 23:21
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] IE8 does not have better web standards support, silly Microsoft: http://is.gd/15EIi #failJun 18 23:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @trmanco IE8 does not have better web standards support, silly Microsoft: http://is.gd/15EIi #failJun 18 23:27
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trmancoI like redditJun 18 23:31
trmancoit's more geek dependentJun 18 23:31
trmancomore "developer" friendly tooJun 18 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] IE8 is more secure, easier to use and more compatible than Firefox or Chrome. Who knew!: http://is.gd/15ETl yet another #failJun 18 23:32
taconelol !Jun 18 23:34
taconeInPrivate Browsing and InPrivate Filtering help Internet Explorer 8 claim privacy victory.Jun 18 23:35
schestowitztrmanco: Novell games itJun 18 23:39
schestowitzAnd I hear it's filled with MonoJun 18 23:39
splosionhttp://wikileaks.org/wiki/The_coming_age_of_internet_censorship  depressing readingJun 18 23:40
trmancoit dependsJun 18 23:40
schestowitzsplosion: old news about Germany?Jun 18 23:42
splosiona bunch of stuffJun 18 23:42
schestowitzMaybe it's good news that they'll censor propaganda sites (e.g. BBC, CNN, Fox, Microsoft.com)Jun 18 23:42
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splosionPfft. Censorship is a crock of shit, regardless of the purpose or its consequences.Jun 18 23:43
_Hicham_censorship is greatJun 18 23:43
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schestowitzProvided you gag those whom you disagree withJun 18 23:47
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schestowitzBut those in power usually get to make this choiceJun 18 23:47
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schestowitzCensorship is a game of hypocrisyJun 18 23:47
_Goblingood evening all...Jun 18 23:47
schestowitz"It's OK for me to talk, but not for you"Jun 18 23:48
schestowitz_Goblin: whats' up?Jun 18 23:48
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_GoblinNot much...had a response to my Windows question....Jun 18 23:48
_Goblinstill waiting for Mr Anderson to respond to his open emailJun 18 23:48
_GoblinTPB users have responded though....Jun 18 23:49
_Goblinthey are quite angry individuals when they can't challenge a point.Jun 18 23:49
_GoblinI often wonder how popular Microsoft products would be if it wasnt for P2PJun 18 23:50
_Goblinand talking of Microsoft....it seems that they are now offering to feed starving people if you download their browser...Jun 18 23:50
_Goblinas you can see, Im catching up...been busy over the last few days.Jun 18 23:51
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_GoblinDaemon you are a little like a genie.Jun 18 23:53
_GoblinEverytime I see Microsoft or Mono mentioned, you appear....Jun 18 23:53
DaemonXPheheJun 18 23:54
_Goblin;)Jun 18 23:54
DaemonXPI pilot all those black helicopters you people keep seeingJun 18 23:54
_Goblinexcellent.Jun 18 23:55
DaemonXPall of them at onceJun 18 23:55
DaemonXPtelepathicallyJun 18 23:55
DaemonXPfrom my CIA officeJun 18 23:55
_Goblingood effort.Jun 18 23:55
DaemonXPsponsored by Windows VistaJun 18 23:55
DaemonXP:DJun 18 23:55
_GoblinI presume then that the Helicopters are not using Vista...Jun 18 23:55
_Goblinthey must be XP...nobody wants Vista.Jun 18 23:55
DaemonXPthere's three things I'll never be able to avoidJun 18 23:56
DaemonXPdeath, taxes, and WindowsJun 18 23:56
DaemonXP:PJun 18 23:56
_Goblinand sadly, the same is true for me...I use Windows at work.Jun 18 23:56
DaemonXPI'd take Windows out back and shoot it if there weren't entire categories of things that Linux can't doJun 18 23:56
DaemonXPI plug in my Sansa, it uses industry standard MTP protocol done to avoid having to use all kinds of daffy and platform specific driversJun 18 23:57
DaemonXPLinux either freaks out or won't recognize it at allJun 18 23:58
DaemonXPplayers see it sometimes, sometimes it disappearsJun 18 23:58
DaemonXPsometimes they transfer files to itJun 18 23:58
_GoblinIts a very personal thing though OS's...Jun 18 23:58
DaemonXPsometimes they don't or end up corrupting themJun 18 23:58
_GoblinI found my Fugi Finepix works fine through Linux....Jun 18 23:58
DaemonXPwhy have standards if Microsoft, Apple, or Linux for that matter just flagrantly violate the shit out of themJun 18 23:58
DaemonXP?Jun 18 23:58
_GoblinXP/Vista never registered it...Jun 18 23:58
DaemonXPNot Invented Here just ends up creating mutually incompatible protocolsJun 18 23:59

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