| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | May 31 00:05 | |
| DaemonFC | OOo still foists JAVA on you I see? | May 31 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | Internals of OOo some of them use java. | May 31 00:09 |
| oiaohm | Yes reason why I do like koffice. | May 31 00:10 |
| DaemonFC | Go-OO doesn't force you to install Java | May 31 00:10 |
| oiaohm | Particular features will not work without it. | May 31 00:10 |
| oiaohm | Blender and makehuman forces python on you. In the case of makehuman you have nothing without python. | May 31 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Its the good with the bad. | May 31 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | Java is just a pile of security problems with little benefit to the user | May 31 00:13 |
| God, what a bunch of mindless crap I see here about GNU/Linux GUIs. Whole live distributions can be fit on a CD that include everything, M$ has problems fitting it's extremely limited Vista OS on a DVD. | May 31 00:13 | |
| Chrome can bring in the whole of KDE or Gnome and not be "bloated" | May 31 00:13 | |
| *silentivm (n=renan@189.58.192.238.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #BoycottNovell | May 31 00:13 | |
| at least by M$ standards | May 31 00:13 | |
| oiaohm | Openoffice does not have a grammer checker for most languages without Java DaemonFC | May 31 00:14 |
| DaemonFC | it's still annoying how poorly Linux applications integrate | May 31 00:14 |
| integrate with what FC? | May 31 00:14 | |
| DaemonFC | the feel of the rest of the system | May 31 00:14 |
| There is far less fragmentation with free software than non. | May 31 00:15 | |
| oiaohm | KDE applications integrate well with other KDE applications. | May 31 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | wrong | May 31 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | aMSN looks like ass on Ubuntu | May 31 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | Opera looks wrong | May 31 00:15 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox bypasses the native toolkits on every platform | May 31 00:15 |
| those are non free software problems, FC | May 31 00:15 | |
| DaemonFC | trying to bypass the Linux disaster | May 31 00:15 |
| oiaohm | winamp on windows DaemonFC | May 31 00:16 |
| Firefox does what? | May 31 00:16 | |
| DaemonFC | Firefox uses XUL | May 31 00:16 |
| oiaohm | It has nothing to do with Windows gui where it can either. | May 31 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | to work around limitations in Linux distros | May 31 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Some applications are bi passing is not unique to Linux. | May 31 00:16 |
| oiaohm | There are a lot of windows that do it if you just look DaemonFC | May 31 00:16 |
| it's a feature of non free software that applications act like paranoid strangers | May 31 00:17 | |
| oiaohm | Blender also does not use native interfaces at all. | May 31 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox had to make that horrible concession strictly because of Linux limitations | May 31 00:17 |
| oiaohm | No DaemonFC | May 31 00:17 |
| oiaohm | XUL was ment to bring about web applications. | May 31 00:17 |
| no one has to do anything in the free software world. | May 31 00:17 | |
| Iceweasel works great for me. | May 31 00:17 | |
| oiaohm | Idea did not exactly work out DaemonFC | May 31 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | without Windows ,Firefox would have less than 1% of the browser market | May 31 00:17 |
| LOL | May 31 00:18 | |
| tacone | there.is.only.XUL | May 31 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | they could no sooner ditch Windows than you could cut off your own arm | May 31 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Wrong. | May 31 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Linux and Open Source world kept firefox alive when MS had market dominace. | May 31 00:18 |
| no one is asking anyone to ditch Windows, people make up their own minds based on freedom and performance of the platform. | May 31 00:18 | |
| tacone | true. they can't ditch windows | May 31 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | If they had to ditch something based purely on the number of users lost | May 31 00:18 |
| DaemonFC | Linux would be first to go | May 31 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Depends on numbers. | May 31 00:19 |
| tacone | i believe mac may be the first. | May 31 00:19 |
| but you see, FC, there is no force in the free software world, just reason. | May 31 00:19 | |
| oiaohm | If you are looking at numbers of developers to keep program alive. | May 31 00:19 |
| tacone | many skilled contributors on linux. at least i guess. | May 31 00:19 |
| DaemonFC | no, there's about 9 Mac users per 1 Linux user | May 31 00:19 |
| oiaohm | You would ditch windows first. | May 31 00:19 |
| DaemonFC | and about 90 Windows users per 1 Linux user | May 31 00:19 |
| oiaohm | Reason Linux and Macs have lots of developers who will work on things. | May 31 00:19 |
| I have to wonder how the Windoze branch of Mozilla is doing, how many people volunteer their time to that mess. | May 31 00:19 | |
| tacone | DaemonFC: it's not just about users. but contributions. you're right, win is not ditcheable | May 31 00:20 |
| oiaohm | So you can rebuild support latter. | May 31 00:20 |
| tacone | what would linux do without firefox, btw ? | May 31 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | Windows is the first priority in their development | May 31 00:20 |
| Windows is a platform you have to pay people to develop for. GNU/Linux is a platform that you can't keep people away from. | May 31 00:20 | |
| DaemonFC | it's fairly obvious just from how poorly Firefox runs on Linux | May 31 00:20 |
| DaemonFC | in comparison | May 31 00:20 |
| oiaohm | Windows is last in priority to open source projects. | May 31 00:20 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: everybody knows win is their priority. | May 31 00:20 |
| oiaohm | Due to the fact is more users than developers. | May 31 00:20 |
| how would a Vista user know, FC? | May 31 00:20 | |
| oiaohm | Its unforuntally a tracked fact about Windows. | May 31 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | the Windows binary works better in Wine than the native Linux binary on Linux | May 31 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | that's pretty funny | May 31 00:21 |
| says bullshitters like you | May 31 00:21 | |
| oiaohm | To be explected DaemonFC | May 31 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | run benchmarks | May 31 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | you don't have to take my work | May 31 00:21 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel filesystem fault with fsync | May 31 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | *word | May 31 00:21 |
| I might just | May 31 00:21 | |
| oiaohm | Kicks the stuffings out of Firefox. | May 31 00:21 |
| DaemonFC | run benchmarks of the Windows binary vs the Linux binary | May 31 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Of course Windows will win at the moment. | May 31 00:22 |
| oiaohm | In wine. | May 31 00:22 |
| I've got Iceweasel, I've got Wine, I can do it. | May 31 00:22 | |
| oiaohm | wine does not use fsync. | May 31 00:22 |
| the question is what kind of benchmark I should run | May 31 00:22 | |
| oiaohm | So you just bi passed problem DaemonFC | May 31 00:22 |
| tacone | twitter: he is referring to an old news | May 31 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Also increase risk of complete data screw up DaemonFC | May 31 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 31 00:23 |
| he's full of shit, is what he is | May 31 00:23 | |
| tacone | he didn't tried himself | May 31 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | I mean a broad spectrum of benchmarks | May 31 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | the Linux version loses them all | May 31 00:23 |
| DaemonFC | use Peacekeeper | May 31 00:23 |
| name a reasonable benchmark | May 31 00:23 | |
| DaemonFC | and Sunspider | May 31 00:23 |
| got links? | May 31 00:23 | |
| oiaohm | And where does firefox use fsync. | May 31 00:24 |
| DaemonFC | http://service.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/index.action | May 31 00:24 |
| are these free software or are they some kind of Windoze optimized shit? | May 31 00:24 | |
| tacone | http://www.tuxradar.com/content/browser-benchmarks-2-even-wine-beats-linux-firefox | May 31 00:24 |
| going to look | May 31 00:24 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www2.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html | May 31 00:24 |
| DaemonFC | no, they're not optimized for anything | May 31 00:24 |
| FC is always so handy with FUD links | May 31 00:25 | |
| DaemonFC | there's no fudging involved | May 31 00:25 |
| right | May 31 00:25 | |
| DaemonFC | Firefox just sucks on Linux | May 31 00:25 |
| tacone | i'm on macosx. it sucks on mac osx as well | May 31 00:25 |
| oiaohm | There is also a second evil. | May 31 00:25 |
| tacone | there's more integration effort than on linux, but it sucks on nevertheless | May 31 00:25 |
| and Linux just sucks, right FC | May 31 00:26 | |
| tacone | on integration and on performance. | May 31 00:26 |
| oiaohm | Wine has some work around to some X11 issues. | May 31 00:26 |
| we should all just use Vista like you | May 31 00:26 | |
| tacone | i'd also say i'm using 3.5b | May 31 00:26 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox is not optimized for Linux | May 31 00:26 |
| DaemonFC | it is optimized for Windows | May 31 00:26 |
| sunspider is bullshit | May 31 00:26 | |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel not optimized. | May 31 00:26 |
| does not measure anything I want to know about | May 31 00:26 | |
| oiaohm | Ever screen draw takes a hit DaemonFC | May 31 00:26 |
| javascript crap | May 31 00:26 | |
| DaemonFC | twitter is only good for ad hominem attacks | May 31 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | because he knows he's wrong | May 31 00:27 |
| I'd rather a browser pass the acid test, FC | May 31 00:27 | |
| oiaohm | wine does things to avoid that. DaemonFC | May 31 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox doesn't pass the ACID 3 test | May 31 00:27 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.30 linux kernel does cause Firefox to speed up. | May 31 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | it won't for a while | May 31 00:27 |
| tacone | uh, let me try that | May 31 00:27 |
| DaemonFC | and that doesn't matter anyway | May 31 00:28 |
| I can use time to measure things like startup | May 31 00:28 | |
| time to load various pages | May 31 00:28 | |
| DaemonFC | there's been a lot of bugs discovered in the test itself | May 31 00:28 |
| but that's bullshitty. | May 31 00:28 | |
| DaemonFC | and using user CSS sheets invalidates it | May 31 00:28 |
| oiaohm | X11 DRI 2 will cause another speed up in firefox DaemonFC. | May 31 00:28 |
| DaemonFC | ACID 3 is a poor example of how standards compliant a browser is | May 31 00:28 |
| tacone | 3.5b on Mac does 93/100 | May 31 00:28 |
| oiaohm | Wine reduces the numbers of X11 commands it sends due to X11 issues. | May 31 00:29 |
| DaemonFC | the only engines that pass ACID 3 are Presto and Webkit | May 31 00:29 |
| It's funny someone who authors a pile of web pages aimed at libel would talk about ad hominem attacks, FC | May 31 00:30 | |
| oiaohm | Then finally gcc cannot profile code well. If you try more often than not you end up with slower binaries not faster FC. | May 31 00:30 |
| DaemonFC | authors what? | May 31 00:30 |
| someone who comes to IRC to talk smack about the things there | May 31 00:30 | |
| oiaohm | Basically for a cluster screwed system Firefox does not run too bad DaemonFC | May 31 00:30 |
| you are some kind of troll that followed me from Slashdot, FC | May 31 00:30 | |
| DaemonFC | Linux has 12 ways to do everything | May 31 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | and none of them are standardized | May 31 00:31 |
| DaemonFC | there's just too many points of failure | May 31 00:31 |
| someone who's skill set is basically fraud and aggravation | May 31 00:31 | |
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| oiaohm | LOL DaemonFC Next you are going to say Linux does not have binary compadiblity. | May 31 00:31 |
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| he's already said that | May 31 00:32 | |
| DaemonFC | with what? Itself? | May 31 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | You're right | May 31 00:32 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel does. | May 31 00:32 |
| oiaohm | with userspace applications. | May 31 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | with other POSIX systems, you're right again | May 31 00:32 |
| DaemonFC | but that's typical | May 31 00:32 |
| oiaohm | How wrong. | May 31 00:32 |
| FC, you would only be happy if free software was just like Vista, then you would say it's a second rate copy. | May 31 00:33 | |
| oiaohm | You are aware Linux syscalls are reguested as universals for all approved Unix's. | May 31 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | the only POSIX system I know of that is binary compatible with anything other than itself is FreeBSD | May 31 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | with the Linuxulator | May 31 00:33 |
| oiaohm | So Linux support to get Unix cerfication is required DaemonFC | May 31 00:33 |
| oiaohm | Its not optional. | May 31 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | UNIX certification doesn't help you anyway | May 31 00:33 |
| DaemonFC | because nothing in it says you can't build proprietary crap on top of it | May 31 00:34 |
| DaemonFC | so you get a Mac OS | May 31 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Reason why Linux syscalls not posix or something else. | May 31 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Bsd did not get there syscalls used because they don't stay const. | May 31 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Linux is binary compadible with userspace always has been. | May 31 00:34 |
| oiaohm | That distributions screws up dependancy support above that does not remove the binary compadiblity that has always existed. | May 31 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | if you want to be picky, yeah | May 31 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | but from a user perspective, that may not help you | May 31 00:35 |
| DaemonFC | and probably won't | May 31 00:35 |
| mtnd3w | Microsoft Installs Firefox Add-ons Sans User Consent: http://techgeist.net/2009/05/microsoft-installs-firefox-add-ons-sans-user-consent/ | May 31 00:35 |
| oiaohm | Reason for need X11 improved to run multiable DaemonFC | May 31 00:35 |
| oiaohm | So from a user point of view they can just run multiable distributions on the same kernel looking as one with full features in time. | May 31 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Like MS is doing with XP on Windows 7. | May 31 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Basically the incompadiblity between Linux distributions will end one way or the other. | May 31 00:36 |
| DaemonFC | I also have the Windows Presentation Foundation plugin for Firefox | May 31 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 31 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | it arrives in .Net 3.5 SP1 | May 31 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Either the distributions will agree to merge. | May 31 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Or they will be forced by users. | May 31 00:37 |
| DaemonFC | it's no worse than Java fucking up your system without permission | May 31 00:38 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1b4) Gecko/20090423 Firefox/3.5b4 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729) | May 31 00:39 |
| mtnd3w | Doesn't this story remind you of Mono on Ubuntu? | May 31 00:39 |
| mtnd3w | Forcing .Net down users throats. | May 31 00:39 |
| DaemonFC | http://blogs.msdn.com/brada/archive/2009/02/27/uninstalling-the-clickonce-support-for-firefox.aspx | May 31 00:40 |
| tacone | mtnd3w: wow | May 31 00:41 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=cecc62dc-96a7-4657-af91-6383ba034eab | May 31 00:42 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: how many sites use java or .net | May 31 00:43 |
| oiaohm | For sites most people visit none. | May 31 00:44 |
| DaemonFC | more need .Net than Java | May 31 00:44 |
| oiaohm | What sites use .Net | May 31 00:44 |
| DaemonFC | any that use Silverlight for one | May 31 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Most web developers are not stupid. | May 31 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Silverlight plugin is independant to the full .net 1 by the way. | May 31 00:45 |
| DaemonFC | Google Chrome uses .Net | May 31 00:45 |
| DaemonFC | to install itself | May 31 00:45 |
| DaemonFC | well, can use | May 31 00:45 |
| oiaohm | I said sites. | May 31 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Not installers. | May 31 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Reason for needing it as a run time engine. | May 31 00:45 |
| DaemonFC | right, the installation site for Chrome uses ClickOnce | May 31 00:46 |
| oiaohm | Does it operate perfectly fine when you don't have .net answer is yes. | May 31 00:46 |
| oiaohm | Its not like it will stop you from getting Chrome. | May 31 00:46 |
| DaemonFC | no, but then you have to grab a stub installer | May 31 00:47 |
| DaemonFC | and mess with that | May 31 00:47 |
| oiaohm | There is no practal reason to force its include. | May 31 00:47 |
| DaemonFC | there's no reason not to | May 31 00:47 |
| oiaohm | There is. Secuirty. | May 31 00:47 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't have access to most of the OS | May 31 00:48 |
| oiaohm | Its a optional part users will barely used so it should be opt in. | May 31 00:48 |
| DaemonFC | that's why Chrome installs in the AppData folder | May 31 00:48 |
| DaemonFC | and not Program Files | May 31 00:48 |
| a useful link http://www.gnutelephony.org/index.php/GNU_Telephony | May 31 00:48 | |
| oiaohm | Can a C# program run a service as system answer is yes DaemonFC | May 31 00:49 |
| oiaohm | So all that containment stuff is crap. | May 31 00:49 |
| oiaohm | Its nothing more than window dressing that does nothing more to stop an attacker. | May 31 00:49 |
| DaemonFC | I've used C# apps as services | May 31 00:49 |
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| oiaohm | Interesting that DaemonFC disappears as soon as he wakes up he is stuffed. | May 31 00:51 |
| oiaohm | I never said that C# was running a C# service. | May 31 00:51 |
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| DaemonFC | I ripped all the dotnet out nevertheless | May 31 01:06 |
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| DaemonFC | Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.1b4) Gecko/20090423 Firefox/3.5b4 | May 31 01:07 |
| MinceR | watch out, your overlords will find out you aren't using IE | May 31 01:08 |
| *DaemonFC doesn't like IE | May 31 01:08 | |
| DaemonFC | never have | May 31 01:08 |
| tacone | lol | May 31 01:09 |
| oiaohm | What MS has done with .net in webbrowsers is the same as what they did with email clients that causes a virus plague. | May 31 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | IE on Windows and UNIX are/were bullshit | May 31 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | IE on Mac was pretty good | May 31 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | so of course they discontinued that | May 31 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 31 01:10 |
| oiaohm | MS dicontinued that when they had the idea they had apple dead. | May 31 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | They should have ditched Trident and ported Tasman to Windows | May 31 01:11 |
| oiaohm | MS seams to be useless at predicting death. | May 31 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | and IE wouldn't blow | May 31 01:11 |
| oiaohm | It would still blow. | May 31 01:12 |
| oiaohm | They would have found other ways to stuff crap into it that it don't need. | May 31 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | no, Tasman was faster and much more standards compliant | May 31 01:12 |
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| oiaohm | Ms would have shoved active-x bad in. | May 31 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasman_%28layout_engine%29 | May 31 01:13 |
| oiaohm | And other evils DaemonFC | May 31 01:13 |
| oiaohm | So making it a secuirty problem | May 31 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | Trident is bad all by itself | May 31 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Trident is only 1 part of the problem. | May 31 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_%28layout_engine%29 | May 31 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes a fairly large one. | May 31 01:14 |
| oiaohm | But its only 1 part | May 31 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | they picked Trident for some reason | May 31 01:14 |
| ziggyfish | interesting http://www.decisionengine.com/Default.html <Bing> is powered by apache | May 31 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | seems like the wrong choice to me | May 31 01:14 |
| MinceR | MICROS~1's inability to code their way out of a paper bag is a big part of the problem | May 31 01:14 |
| MinceR | their unwillingness to follow standards set by others is another | May 31 01:14 |
| oiaohm | because Netscape would not sell to them DaemonFC why they went trident. | May 31 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | no, Microsoft is kind of a schism | May 31 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | some units put out good software and others produce bad software | May 31 01:15 |
| oiaohm | That is the truth DaemonFC | May 31 01:15 |
| oiaohm | When MS could not buy netscape they bourght trident. | May 31 01:15 |
| MinceR | indeed. and the former units exist only in DaemonFC's imagination. | May 31 01:15 |
| MinceR | which makes their software a bit more difficult to get. | May 31 01:15 |
| oiaohm | And they have stuck to it ever since DaemonFC | May 31 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | they never bought Trident | May 31 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | it was based on Spyglass Mosaic | May 31 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | which they licensed | May 31 01:16 |
| DaemonFC | IE 1, codenamed O'Hare | May 31 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | O'Hare is obviously the airport in Chicago | May 31 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | which was the codename for Windows 95 | May 31 01:19 |
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| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Expression_Web | May 31 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | That doesn't use Trident | May 31 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | it uses a port of Tasman | May 31 01:23 |
| mtnd3w | They're including Gnote in Karmic repos! http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/gnote | May 31 01:30 |
| mtnd3w | I gotta go tell directhex the good news. He'll be thrilled. | May 31 01:31 |
| oiaohm | Hmm c++ is not a code clean as it could be but still it over all still smaller. | May 31 01:33 |
| tacone | well, it comes from debian | May 31 01:45 |
| tacone | directhex tried to exclude it claiming copyright infringment | May 31 01:45 |
| ziggyfish | tacone, isn't it a fork? | May 31 01:47 |
| tacone | ziggyfish: yes, but it included some original code as comments | May 31 01:48 |
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| tacone | ziggyfish: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523093 | May 31 01:48 |
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| oiaohm | Not illegal by the way. | May 31 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Since tomboy code has credit and it licence allowed wrapping into a licence gnote is now. | May 31 01:56 |
| oiaohm | Basically directhex is being a sploted brat. | May 31 01:56 |
| DaemonFC | who? | May 31 01:57 |
| neighborlee | http://www.firecat.org/AFarewellToGnomes < my good friend leaves ship....and .net is mentioned so I thought you might like to see this | May 31 01:57 |
| tacone | oiaohm: that was just to update mtnd3w. we know that was not a real issue and debian successfully uploaded the package, which now is in ubuntu | May 31 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Lot of mono developers were being brats. | May 31 02:00 |
| neighborlee | and they should be treated as such | May 31 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Part of open source is the idea that if you don't think something is right you can fork it. | May 31 02:01 |
| oiaohm | And try another way and work out if its better. | May 31 02:01 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, faik gnome might just get forked... | May 31 02:01 |
| tacone | lol: Mono is a disease you get from kissing the wrong people. | May 31 02:01 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, or so I think ive heard | May 31 02:01 |
| MinceR | between gnome being .netified and dumbed down and kde4 being what it is, perhaps there's a need for a new DE | May 31 02:02 |
| neighborlee | might it might be too late..kde..xfce...E17 | May 31 02:02 |
| neighborlee | MinceR, my friend will either go with E17 or xfce atm | May 31 02:02 |
| mtnd3w | That mono crusader isn't even on the developer of Tomboy is he? | May 31 02:02 |
| MinceR | i'm planning to take a look at e17 with ecomorph | May 31 02:02 |
| tacone | he's a mono packager | May 31 02:02 |
| MinceR | i'm hoping to see no compiz bugs :> | May 31 02:03 |
| mtnd3w | "I'm not doing a detailed analysis on every file in Tomboy's source tree because frankly there's too much of it. " Jo Shields (directhex) | May 31 02:03 |
| tacone | he's the one who successfully proposed to replace rhythmbox with banshee | May 31 02:03 |
| oiaohm | kde4 has been improving each release. | May 31 02:03 |
| mtnd3w | Does the FSF give out troll awards? | May 31 02:03 |
| tacone | time to switch to kde4 | May 31 02:03 |
| MinceR | kde4 has a long way to go before it can replace kde3.5 as a stable DE | May 31 02:03 |
| MinceR | hardly time to switch | May 31 02:04 |
| MinceR | plasma is still a bottomless pit where CPU time goes and never comes back | May 31 02:04 |
| oiaohm | I see Kde4 direction is still right. | May 31 02:04 |
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| MinceR | i don't quite see the direction yet. | May 31 02:04 |
| neighborlee | tacone, thats definite ? | May 31 02:04 |
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| MinceR | i hope they are going to re-add the features they've dropped | May 31 02:04 |
| oiaohm | They will re add the features they droped | May 31 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Each release more of the odd features return MinceR | May 31 02:05 |
| MinceR | and that it will be reliable and usable once again | May 31 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Adding features does not help stablity. | May 31 02:05 |
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| MinceR | it does help being as usable as kde3, though | May 31 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Also does not help that kde4 was designed for dri2 X11 | May 31 02:05 |
| oiaohm | And most users are using it on dri1 style framework. | May 31 02:06 |
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| oiaohm | memory usage on dri2 drivers with kde4 drops in compisting mode. | May 31 02:07 |
| oiaohm | To less then non compististed. | May 31 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Dri1 compisiting mode it blows out like a ballown. | May 31 02:08 |
| tacone | neighborlee: definite what ? | May 31 02:08 |
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| neighborlee | tacone, about rhythmbox actually replaced in default install ? | May 31 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Kde3 design cannot really take advantage of what dri2 offers. So there had to be a rewrite. Now everyone is in pain for a short while even worse since dri2 is late MinceR. | May 31 02:09 |
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| MinceR | i have trouble believing that apps that have disappeared without replacement (Kaboodle, for example) required dri so much. | May 31 02:10 |
| oiaohm | DRI2 provides double buffering and other things to smooth rendering of windows. | May 31 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Also DRI2 allows reducing how many full redraws you need. | May 31 02:11 |
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| MinceR | also, i doubt that using regexen in content search in konqueror/dolphin needs dri1 or dri2. | May 31 02:12 |
| MinceR | same goes for embedding the search dialog in the window instead of putting it in something that looks like in a window but doesn't show in lists. | May 31 02:12 |
| oiaohm | KDE also has gone cross platform while doing the rewrite. | May 31 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically if you are going to break something you might as well do it well. | May 31 02:13 |
| oiaohm | So it gets all over and done in one hit. | May 31 02:13 |
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| oiaohm | Yep KDE 3 basically end live for design. KDE4 they took the chance to go after every annoyance in design they could while they were doing a rewrite. | May 31 02:15 |
| oiaohm | So pain. | May 31 02:15 |
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| oiaohm | I look at it this way MinceR. At least by getting all nightmares out now once the pain disappears it will be good. | May 31 02:17 |
| MinceR | until then i still need a DE. :> | May 31 02:17 |
| oiaohm | kde 3.5 still works good. | May 31 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Its not like they busted that up. | May 31 02:18 |
| MinceR | unless one wants opengl compositing | May 31 02:18 |
| DaemonFC | Annoyance? They have all the annoyances of KDE 3 and more | May 31 02:18 |
| oiaohm | opengl compositing need DRI2 to work right. So not really a issue. | May 31 02:19 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: any ideas what annoyances they are fixing. | May 31 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | Well, KDE 4 is like Vista | May 31 02:20 |
| oiaohm | artd audio for 1. | May 31 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | such a disaster that users all run back to the old version | May 31 02:20 |
| MinceR | you've got to love it then | May 31 02:20 |
| DaemonFC | even though it's showing its age | May 31 02:20 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: there is a difference there. | May 31 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | not really | May 31 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Difference is Vista has no road map to fix it issues. | May 31 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | developers go nuts sometimes and throw out a piece of software that's bloated beyond belief | May 31 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | or has trouble doing things the earlier version did fine | May 31 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Supprising KDE 4 is not that bloated. | May 31 02:22 |
| oiaohm | There are a lot of cases it uses less ram than KDE 3 | May 31 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | that's just patently false | May 31 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Its not. | May 31 02:22 |
| DaemonFC | someone was fudging that RAM usage comparison | May 31 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Run with DRI2 driver. | May 31 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Higher memory usage in X11 was coming from video memory duplication. | May 31 02:23 |
| DaemonFC | the only GPUs that have a DRI2 driver are either integrated and shitty | May 31 02:23 |
| DaemonFC | or a dedicated card with reverse engineered drivers | May 31 02:23 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4 was design for DRI2. Drivers are not fully here yet so it don't work right. | May 31 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Kinda expected result really DaemonFC | May 31 02:24 |
| DaemonFC | actually KDE 4 is bugy and has severe implementation gaps | May 31 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | in my experience | May 31 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | *buggy | May 31 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | it's not so much the bloat | May 31 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Do you expect areo to work on non areo cards. | May 31 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | I have a reasonable system, so it's not that | May 31 02:25 |
| oiaohm | MS does not allow it for very good reasons. | May 31 02:25 |
| neighborlee | LOL, I was called out on a post for using the FUD word as its disrespecteful...I wonder if directHEX ever was ;0-- | May 31 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | that and bloat is subjective | May 31 02:25 |
| DaemonFC | a piece of general purpose software tends to expand in all directions | May 31 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | it's hard to target a system to meet the needs of users when every user will use different features | May 31 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly. KDE 4 is also getting more backend intergration. | May 31 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | that was the original given reason for Firefox | May 31 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | which is now slower and more RAM hungry than the suite | May 31 02:27 |
| oiaohm | So even that features can expland there is reducing memory usage in places. | May 31 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | what the hell did they think was going to happen when they made an extension architecture that anything can install ddons into? | May 31 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | this was just open for abuse from the start | May 31 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | and it's not just that .Net crap | May 31 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Firefox is going to go multi process. | May 31 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox has gotten popular, so now everything you install puts more shit into Firefox | May 31 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | they need to figure out a way to prevent that | May 31 02:28 |
| oiaohm | That will make leaking addons more spotable. | May 31 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Since each addon will be in its own process you will be able to see the one bloating out. | May 31 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | you can end up with .Net, Java plugin, toolbars, all kinds of stuff you didn't want | May 31 02:29 |
| oiaohm | would have been wise to do that from the start. | May 31 02:29 |
| oiaohm | But they did not. | May 31 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | Foxit Reader and VLC crash Firefox as often as they can embed something | May 31 02:29 |
| oiaohm | Again lack of split processes DaemonFC | May 31 02:30 |
| oiaohm | The solution is under development for the problems you are describing DaemonFC | May 31 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | oh yes, FoxIt tries to embed PDF, suddenly it hangs, blows up, and takes out my other tabs and my IRC client with shrapnel | May 31 02:30 |
| oiaohm | That will disappear in time about firefox 4.0 unforntally. | May 31 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | Even IE 8 understands the concept of split processes | May 31 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Yet it manages to have shared memory maps. | May 31 02:31 |
| DaemonFC | no, when a tab crashes in IE 8, it kills that tab | May 31 02:32 |
| DaemonFC | and offers to resurrect it | May 31 02:32 |
| DaemonFC | when one tab dies in Firefox, you lose everything | May 31 02:32 |
| oiaohm | There is a shared struct that should not have been in IE8 | May 31 02:32 |
| oiaohm | chrome got it right. IE8 is only close to right. | May 31 02:33 |
| oiaohm | If something hits the bit in IE8 that should not been shared the complete thing comes down. | May 31 02:34 |
| oiaohm | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Content_Processes << Its a fairly major overhaul to split something like firefox into multiable threads DaemonFC | May 31 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Then processes | May 31 02:37 |
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| MinceR | gn | May 31 02:52 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans.html | May 31 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | A meme that is currently picking up traction in the conservative blogosphere is that the list of dealerships to be shuttered as a result of Chrysler's bankruptcy contains a disproportionate number donors to Republican candidates. There have been furious efforts to prove this contention by looking up campaign contributor lists at the Huffington Post, Open Secrets, and other places. | May 31 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | There is just one problem with this theory. Nobody has bothered to look up data for the control group: the list of dealerships which aren't being closed. It turns out that all car dealers are, in fact, overwhelmingly more likely to donate to Republicans than to Democrats -- not just those who are having their doors closed. | May 31 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | Overall, 88 percent of the contributions from car dealers went to Republican candidates and just 12 percent to Democratic candidates. By comparison, the list of dealers on Doug Ross's list (which I haven't vetted, but I assume is fine) gave 92 percent of their money to Republicans -- not really a significant difference. | May 31 03:03 |
| DaemonFC | There's no conspiracy here, folks -- just some bad math. | May 31 03:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | Another brainstorm on the coming push for Banshee in Ubuntu by default: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/20016/ | May 31 03:08 |
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| tessier | How are things in bnland these days? | May 31 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft's patent application for their pay as you go system was denied | May 31 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | in the United States at least | May 31 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10011770o-2000331761b,00.htm | May 31 04:08 |
| ziggyfish | the Australian Government has been using that since (I'll look into it). In fact it's called PAYG and is used for small businesses to manage employee tax contributions | May 31 04:10 |
| oiaohm | People stupid I love. One person tried to claim that UNO from openoffice could be in breach of MS COM Patents. | May 31 04:11 |
| ziggyfish | since July 2000 | May 31 04:12 |
| oiaohm | UNO dates from starwriter over 20 years go. So there is no way in hell any software patent could apply to it. | May 31 04:12 |
| oiaohm | I cannot remmber were Australia copied PAYG from. | May 31 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Ie we did not have it first even. | May 31 04:14 |
| ziggyfish | and the US March 15, 1942. | May 31 04:14 |
| oiaohm | That sounds lie the right date now ziggyfish | May 31 04:14 |
| oiaohm | lie/like | May 31 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Lot of MS patents are invalid due to prior art. | May 31 04:15 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, it would of been interesting if they had of approved it. because MS would than be suing the government | May 31 04:16 |
| oiaohm | Also pay as you go is also used in render farms. | May 31 04:17 |
| oiaohm | Could have got really interesting to say the least. | May 31 04:18 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, COM came from something else (can't remember what though) | May 31 04:20 |
| oiaohm | CORBA | May 31 04:20 |
| oiaohm | Developed in 1991 patent any possiable explires 2012 | May 31 04:20 |
| oiaohm | Lot of patent risk vaporised in the year 2012. | May 31 04:21 |
| oiaohm | Most stuff since 1991 has not been new. | May 31 04:21 |
| oiaohm | Really if someone started cleaning out all the invalid patents issues over the last 20 years we would be lucky to find MS with 1 valid patent. | May 31 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: Doesn't MP3 have all its patents expiring soon? | May 31 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | I think I heard 2012 in the United States | May 31 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | and 2016 worldwide | May 31 04:26 |
| oiaohm | 2012 is playback worldwide | May 31 04:27 |
| oiaohm | 2016 is all forms of mp3 encoding. | May 31 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | 2011 is decoding patent expiration | May 31 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | 2012 is encoding | May 31 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | ahhh | May 31 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | oh? | May 31 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | May 31 04:28 |
| oiaohm | There were some newer formulars evented to compress better. | May 31 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.oddee.com/item_96689.aspx | May 31 04:28 |
| oiaohm | And keep the audio better around 1995 | May 31 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | well, when would LAME be in the clear? | May 31 04:28 |
| oiaohm | Play back engine did not change. | May 31 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | that's the only MP3 encoder worth using | May 31 04:28 |
| oiaohm | Lame would be clear. | May 31 04:29 |
| oiaohm | 2012 | May 31 04:29 |
| ziggyfish | LAME is so mm lame :P | May 31 04:29 |
| oiaohm | Encoding of mp3 may always have a patents of some form over it. | May 31 04:30 |
| oiaohm | If people keep on enventing better way and patenting them. | May 31 04:30 |
| DaemonFC | well, that would only cover encoders that used the patented bits right? | May 31 04:31 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | May 31 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | Seems to me that nobody besides LAME is actively improving anything | May 31 04:31 |
| oiaohm | Playback is the most important bit anyhow. | May 31 04:32 |
| oiaohm | If you can play it back you can transcode it to something else. | May 31 04:32 |
| your view comes from Windows use, FC | May 31 04:34 | |
| VLC and ogg have undergone a lot of improvement lately | May 31 04:35 | |
| there's also totem and a dozen other players, all working off excellent work in codecs and presentation work. | May 31 04:36 | |
| ffmpeg, gstreamer are active projects and there are several interesting sound subsytems that work well. | May 31 04:37 | |
| if you were a gnu/linux user, you would also know that driver development is a continuous thing and that most new hardware works well in the various sound subsystems in short order. | May 31 04:38 | |
| Even nasty stuff like Intel's HDA | May 31 04:38 | |
| oiaohm | gstreamer is slowly becoming the audio interface of choice. What I do class as good. | May 31 04:39 |
| FC is a conflicting character. He complains about patents but acts as if breaking them was immoral, like getting a cracked copy of Vista off the net. So he thinks that people should slavishly obey absurd restrictions then complains that nobody is actively improving anything. Hmph. | May 31 04:42 | |
| DaemonFC | no, I'm going to be amused when online music stores still have to sell MP3 even after it's public domain | May 31 04:43 |
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| I'm not sure that anyone will sell recordings in the future, much less mp3 | May 31 04:45 | |
| oiaohm | Sales of recodings are going to stick around most likely for our live span twitter. | May 31 04:46 |
| oiaohm | Ok 100 years time might be different. | May 31 04:46 |
| Eruaran | Not content setting us all back by 10 years, Microsoft wants to push us back 20 years. | May 31 04:47 |
| Eruaran | Or more... | May 31 04:47 |
| Why should people be forced to buy things they can share and duplicate without cost? | May 31 04:47 | |
| DaemonFC | they're not | May 31 04:47 |
| Eruaran | http://www.eweek.com/showblog/53549/Microsoft-Makes-Windows-7-Even-More-Attractive-to-Netbook-Users/ | May 31 04:47 |
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| Eruaran | I commented on this article | May 31 04:47 |
| oiaohm | Its partly respect twitter | May 31 04:48 |
| Eruaran | Some of the most disgusting crippleware I have ever seen | May 31 04:48 |
| respect of what? | May 31 04:48 | |
| oiaohm | If a person want to licence something a particular way is there free option. | May 31 04:48 |
| Eruaran | If you showed this to an Amiga user from the late 80's or early 90's they wouldn't beleive this was an article from 2009. | May 31 04:48 |
| oiaohm | Lack of respect for that is a disrespect of a freedom really twitter. | May 31 04:48 |
| Why do I have to buy into your lack of respect for my neighbor? | May 31 04:48 | |
| oiaohm | Its also your freedom not to buy or using items you disagree with too. | May 31 04:49 |
| How can I not share what cost me nothing to duplicate? | May 31 04:49 | |
| DaemonFC | twitter thinks everyone should work for free | May 31 04:49 |
| Who are you to tell me not to share? | May 31 04:49 | |
| No, you are free to not record things | May 31 04:49 | |
| buy you are not free to tell me how to use my computer | May 31 04:49 | |
| DaemonFC | nobody has | May 31 04:50 |
| and you are not free to tell me not to help my neighbor | May 31 04:50 | |
| DaemonFC | nobody has | May 31 04:50 |
| oiaohm | So if you hand spent months design a item you would be happy with me taking that design and producing it and paying you nothing twitter. | May 31 04:50 |
| yes | May 31 04:50 | |
| I have done as much | May 31 04:50 | |
| DaemonFC | twitter obviously has no problem with stealing things that people spent time and effort making | May 31 04:50 |
| oiaohm | So you would happy not to be paid for you job then twitter. | May 31 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | there's nothing wrong with not buying AND using them | May 31 04:51 |
| I don't work if I'm not paid | May 31 04:51 | |
| DaemonFC | but advocating theft is just wrong | May 31 04:51 |
| oiaohm | Its the same thing twitter | May 31 04:51 |
| you have a strange idea of theft | May 31 04:51 | |
| oiaohm | You are paid to create items. | May 31 04:51 |
| you equate duplication with theft | May 31 04:51 | |
| that is insane | May 31 04:51 | |
| oiaohm | People creat items put licnece in them so they get paid. | May 31 04:51 |
| oiaohm | A person is free to choose how much there time is worth. | May 31 04:52 |
| oiaohm | And how much they want. | May 31 04:52 |
| oiaohm | Now if the person want too much you are free not to buy or use there stuff. | May 31 04:52 |
| you are not free to tell me that I can't make copies of music | May 31 04:52 | |
| you are not free to tell me that I can not share those copies with friends | May 31 04:52 | |
| DaemonFC | and twitter, you're not free to tell me I can't steal your computer | May 31 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | after all, I should be able to take things without paying | May 31 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | :) | May 31 04:53 |
| oiaohm | Its basically who gave you the right to copy/duplicate another person work without paying twitter. | May 31 04:53 |
| you can copy my computer all day long, I'd be very happy if you did that but I would not call it "stealing" | May 31 04:53 | |
| I wish that you could copy bread to feed hungry people. | May 31 04:54 | |
| oiaohm | Creative commons producer of work agrees to it. | May 31 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's OK to copy music and give it away if the license says you can | May 31 04:54 |
| oiaohm | So no legal problem. | May 31 04:54 |
| I wish that you could copy cloth, to keep people from being cold. | May 31 04:54 | |
| oiaohm | Protection of designs is a old thing twitter. | May 31 04:54 |
| I know that you can copy sound recordings to entertain people. | May 31 04:54 | |
| Eruaran | Perhaps Pythagoris should have only "licensed" his theorem and made people buy it on a disk in a green or blue box. | May 31 04:55 |
| Human society is far older than your immoral tyranny. | May 31 04:55 | |
| oiaohm | Problem with just taking is a fine line before it just become stealing twitter. | May 31 04:55 |
| Wolfram will try to box Pythagoras. | May 31 04:55 | |
| DaemonFC | if people are just going to steal my work, where is my morivation to make more? | May 31 04:56 |
| Please copy my words, Ohm. | May 31 04:56 | |
| You don't do any work, FC. | May 31 04:56 | |
| DaemonFC | How do you make a living with rampant theft? | May 31 04:56 |
| oiaohm | twitter: respect for other people is something we are losing quicky. | May 31 04:56 |
| You work for real thieves who would lay ownership both my culture and my computer. | May 31 04:57 | |
| Eruaran | duplication is not theft | May 31 04:57 |
| oiaohm | Do you play on your neibours lawn when they tell you not to twitter. | May 31 04:57 |
| oiaohm | Its the same it costing nothing. | May 31 04:57 |
| oiaohm | It still lack of respect. | May 31 04:57 |
| Eruaran | false analogy | May 31 04:57 |
| no, a lawn needs care and I can't make a copy of their grass for them. | May 31 04:57 | |
| Ohm is going to make a copy of my computer for me. | May 31 04:58 | |
| oiaohm | Just like you cannot copy the money the artist does not get twitter. | May 31 04:58 |
| but he can't give it away, or he would be stealing from IBM | May 31 04:58 | |
| Eruaran | Its a lack of respect to copy your neighbours lawn ? I thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery... | May 31 04:58 |
| oiaohm | Its still lack of respect harm on a law does not always appear aparent twitter. | May 31 04:58 |
| Eruaran | None of my music will ever be available through iTunes | May 31 04:59 |
| Ohm might be able to copy bread, but he thinks giving it away to hungry people is like stealing. | May 31 04:59 | |
| neonfloss | playing on your neighbours lawn is using your the lawn to the fullest extent | May 31 04:59 |
| oiaohm | Just like harm from coping music appears appearent. | May 31 04:59 |
| DaemonFC | if you don't want to pay for it, don't use it | May 31 04:59 |
| I have no respect for bogus laws made to enrich a few by trampling on everyone's liberty. | May 31 04:59 | |
| oiaohm | Is music made from thin air answer is no twitter. | May 31 04:59 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot of work that goes into creating songs. | May 31 04:59 |
| I'm not going to be cut off from my culture because of your ignorance and greed. | May 31 04:59 | |
| I don't force anyone to sing. | May 31 05:00 | |
| Eruaran | copying music harms the profiteers who maintain ownership over music somebody else created and recorded | May 31 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | typical communist | May 31 05:00 |
| I might pay to see such a thing. | May 31 05:00 | |
| Eruaran | The musicians benefit from a more fair system | May 31 05:00 |
| but I'm not going to pay for recordings anymore. | May 31 05:00 | |
| neonfloss | I download tons of music from the internet, most from independant artists. then again I also donate a lot of. technically I dont buy, but I do reimburse everyone in the creation process. | May 31 05:00 |
| Eruaran | where you get rid of those profiteers | May 31 05:00 |
| oiaohm | Some cases artist sell directly to the public Eruaran | May 31 05:00 |
| Eruaran | I know | May 31 05:00 |
| Eruaran | and they are better off | May 31 05:00 |
| oiaohm | And people still illegally copy there songs. | May 31 05:00 |
| FC, would you argue that you have a right to control my computer, for the benefit of society? | May 31 05:01 | |
| oiaohm | Its pure lack of respect. | May 31 05:01 |
| Eruaran | And some artists don't force you to pay for anything | May 31 05:01 |
| so that artists get the respect you deserve? | May 31 05:01 | |
| If you think you have a right to tell me how to work my property for communal benefit, you are a Communist. | May 31 05:01 | |
| Eruaran | When I get my recordings done and the site is up, no one will be forced to pay for anything | May 31 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Artists deserve respect. I would be happy if the middle men were not there. But that is not the world we live in. | May 31 05:01 |
| Eruaran | Donations will gratefully be accepted | May 31 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | twitter: You seem to think that | May 31 05:02 |
| I have respect for artists. | May 31 05:02 | |
| Eruaran | And I will only use DRM free open formats | May 31 05:02 |
| I think you and Ohm are running in circles | May 31 05:02 | |
| oiaohm | You don't if you copy there works against licence equaling them not getting there percentage twitter. | May 31 05:02 |
| and I think you are doing it to waste time and energy. | May 31 05:02 | |
| neonfloss | solution. listen and buy from forward thinking artists | May 31 05:02 |
| dissipative trolling to disrupt communications. | May 31 05:02 | |
| Eruaran | It is not my goal to make it difficult for you to listen to or do what you want with music you download from my site | May 31 05:03 |
| oiaohm | What is fine artist is free to choose there restrictions on there work. | May 31 05:03 |
| Recordings should be shared and duplicated at will, regardless of the will of the owners. It is only in this way that we will have public libraries in the future. | May 31 05:04 | |
| oiaohm | Something I would love to see pushed for because some of these bugger companies are nasty to artists. | May 31 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | twitter is advocating theft and communal property | May 31 05:04 |
| It is not fine for owners to restrict works of art | May 31 05:04 | |
| DaemonFC | ullshit | May 31 05:04 |
| Eruaran | I'd rather one person give me $20 because they like my music than the alternative | May 31 05:04 |
| FC does not believe in libraries | May 31 05:04 | |
| it's obvious that he has little need for them | May 31 05:05 | |
| DaemonFC | so the government should seize my rights to stuff I create because you're being cheap? | May 31 05:05 |
| oiaohm | Libraries normally don't duplicate items. They maintain a inventory. | May 31 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | you want a mandate for theft | May 31 05:05 |
| If you don't want to share, FC, don't make and publish recordings. | May 31 05:05 | |
| If you do, please don't consider my copy your property. | May 31 05:06 | |
| I have not given you control over my books, songs and other media. | May 31 05:06 | |
| It's mine. | May 31 05:06 | |
| DaemonFC | I'd just DRM it to begin with | May 31 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | and never release a CD | May 31 05:06 |
| oiaohm | How copyright was design and it did work well for about 25 years a item could not be copied without permission it had it have a copy provided to a central archive so when the 25 years were up it went public domain. | May 31 05:06 |
| So what happens when your beautiful voice recording is cracked? | May 31 05:06 | |
| oiaohm | Problem is that time frame has been expanded. | May 31 05:07 |
| Eruaran | If you give me $20 for your download, you just gave me a lot more than any record company would. And if you do it freely because you enjoyed it and you want to give me something then I am happier. No one is forced to pay, and no one stands over me or those who want to listen to my music claiming ownership over something they didn't create. | May 31 05:07 |
| What if I think my neighbors would be amused and share it? | May 31 05:07 | |
| DaemonFC | they should have really thought about DRM before the CD | May 31 05:07 |
| People have thought about DRM | May 31 05:07 | |
| DaemonFC | that would stop the criminals from stealing it and justifying doing it | May 31 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | like twitter | May 31 05:07 |
| :-D | May 31 05:07 | |
| good luck maintaining state protection for DRM, FC | May 31 05:08 | |
| oiaohm | The justification is always that it is harmless. | May 31 05:08 |
| Eruaran | I refuse to criminalise anyone who wants to listen to my music | May 31 05:08 |
| oiaohm | Problem is it harms many ways. | May 31 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | there should be prison time | May 31 05:08 |
| people are not as dumb and greedy as you would like them to be | May 31 05:08 | |
| DaemonFC | and stiffer fines | May 31 05:08 |
| pure troll | May 31 05:08 | |
| DaemonFC | they should make the penalty the same as if you walked into the store and stole a CD | May 31 05:08 |
| from a guy who steals non free software all day | May 31 05:08 | |
| Eruaran | if you're not an artist, don't try to speak for them. | May 31 05:09 |
| oiaohm | If artist chooses it to be free like Eruaran. More people should be interest in his work due to others not being free. | May 31 05:09 |
| he's a thief by his own views | May 31 05:09 | |
| oiaohm | Hope I got sex right Eruaran | May 31 05:09 |
| let him jail himself | May 31 05:09 | |
| DaemonFC | if an artist chooses to be a hippy/loon and releases crap that nobody in their right mind would listen to | May 31 05:09 |
| Eruaran | yes | May 31 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | there's always shit like Jamendo | May 31 05:09 |
| there's FC's respect for artists | May 31 05:09 | |
| beautiful | May 31 05:10 | |
| Eruaran | Let the listener decide if they like it or not | May 31 05:10 |
| oiaohm | I have true respect of artist because I know how poor my music applity it. | May 31 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | I grabbed some of that CC music and it's obvious why they'll never go big | May 31 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | none of it was even worth the hard drive space | May 31 05:10 |
| Eruaran | So free = poor quality ? | May 31 05:11 |
| Eruaran | I assure you, what I put online will not be poor quality | May 31 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | usually if they give it away free, they know what they're worth | May 31 05:11 |
| Eruaran | And if you don't like it, don't listen to it. | May 31 05:11 |
| oiaohm | jamendo is starting to operate the same that people can pay if they like it. | May 31 05:11 |
| In FC's mind, greed == high quality | May 31 05:11 | |
| DaemonFC | no, if they give it away, they know what people will pay for it | May 31 05:12 |
| sharing is bad | May 31 05:12 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: how will money get to artist from sharing. | May 31 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | it's why that crap isn't mainstream and ended up in the CC gutter | May 31 05:12 |
| how will I get money to eat? | May 31 05:12 | |
| oiaohm | Legal sharing like CC there is the donations channel to artists twitter. | May 31 05:13 |
| artists made a living long before mechanical recording | May 31 05:13 | |
| they will make a living when people learn to share again | May 31 05:13 | |
| oiaohm | So they did but they could do the equal to begging. | May 31 05:13 |
| Eruaran | its cultural as well | May 31 05:13 |
| oiaohm | Play in street get money twitter. | May 31 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | nobody donates to them except for emos and weeaboos | May 31 05:13 |
| Eruaran | If you go to India, musicians are well paid and people would not dream of not paying musicians to play. | May 31 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 31 05:13 |
| people still beg. giving recording studios power only makes the problem worse | May 31 05:13 | |
| oiaohm | We are now seeing that return in electronic from twitter. | May 31 05:14 |
| I would not dream of asking someone to do something they did not want to do. | May 31 05:14 | |
| Eruaran | DaemonFC: so, emos and weeaboos are more giving than you | May 31 05:14 |
| Which is why I would not ask people to not share my work. It is crazy. | May 31 05:14 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 31 05:14 |
| oiaohm | Problem with not respecting and looking for the other paths you fail to give other models a chance too twitter. | May 31 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | they just have shitty taste in music | May 31 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | and a bend towards communism | May 31 05:15 |
| Eruaran | but, don't you "steal" anyway ? | May 31 05:15 |
| A model that restricts freedom and limits the spread of culture does not deserve a chance. | May 31 05:15 | |
| Eruaran | who makes money off you ? | May 31 05:15 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: there are over 200 000 tracks on that one site I would not be game to say there is not anything good in there. yes they need a better quality sorting system. | May 31 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | the biggest enemy of free software and materials is itself | May 31 05:15 |
| Broadcasters and recording studios are doomed anyway. | May 31 05:16 | |
| Eruaran | twitter: I agree | May 31 05:16 |
| There's more than enough free music for anyone now | May 31 05:16 | |
| DaemonFC | they're not doomed | May 31 05:16 |
| oiaohm | If you don't like the limits applied you don't have to breach them just go elsewhere. | May 31 05:16 |
| Eruaran | print media is dying | May 31 05:16 |
| no one needs music owned by greedy assholes | May 31 05:16 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, if anyone listened to it | May 31 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | nobody would | May 31 05:16 |
| no one is going to pay for things they can get for free | May 31 05:16 | |
| DaemonFC | they may as well just fill a 10 minute Vorbis file with random noise and zap you with a taser | May 31 05:17 |
| oiaohm | That like saying no one will donate money. | May 31 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Yet it still happens twitter. | May 31 05:17 |
| DaemonFC | that's how painful that shit is to listen to | May 31 05:17 |
| Eruaran | I am part of a group (not a band, just a bunch of friends) who all have shunned the studio/label system | May 31 05:17 |
| Eruaran | it is a growing group | May 31 05:17 |
| FC, your inability to find music you can respect that's not owned by assholes is a personal tragedy. | May 31 05:17 | |
| It's not anyone else's problem. | May 31 05:18 | |
| Eruaran | We've been offered recording contracts and, after reading the fine print, rejected them | May 31 05:18 |
| good | May 31 05:18 | |
| oiaohm | Free choice as it should be. | May 31 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | well, it's good that there's a ghetto for people with no taste who are broke | May 31 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | I applaud the effort | May 31 05:18 |
| Eruaran | If you sign that, you're giving someone else ownership of everything you do. | May 31 05:18 |
| It is better to share than it is to be owned by immoral people. | May 31 05:18 | |
| Eruaran | You end up an employee of a record company. | May 31 05:19 |
| those immoral people are having a harder time than ever now. | May 31 05:19 | |
| oiaohm | and its better to support people like Eruaran. Then take copies of people work without permission. | May 31 05:19 |
| they have to call people thieves for sharing and stuff. | May 31 05:19 | |
| for some reason, they think that will make people buy the music they own. | May 31 05:19 | |
| Eruaran | Record companies are leeches. | May 31 05:20 |
| and make people rude to their neighbors | May 31 05:20 | |
| DaemonFC | I'm not going to spend money on something I won't contaminate my hard disk with | May 31 05:20 |
| It's like Windows. | May 31 05:20 | |
| oiaohm | There need to be more regulation on what a Recording contract can contain. | May 31 05:20 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm: indeed | May 31 05:20 |
| People don't want to pay for it already and they won't be using it much longer | May 31 05:20 | |
| there will be a few fanboys who insist on paying for it, but they are crazy | May 31 05:21 | |
| the world will move on and leave them behind | May 31 05:21 | |
| oiaohm | People like Eruaran still want people to turn up to events and donations and the like twitter. | May 31 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Its the food factor everyone has a right to eat. | May 31 05:21 |
| DaemonFC | the major label stuff is just better | May 31 05:21 |
| I will still like to go to concerts too | May 31 05:21 | |
| Eruaran | You die if you don't play live. | May 31 05:21 |
| Vista is just better, eh FC? | May 31 05:22 | |
| I think FC has many irrational attachments to things | May 31 05:22 | |
| Eruaran | Donations are a direct show of support - putting your money where your mouth is so to speak. Its not tied to the files people download. | May 31 05:22 |
| I'll pay for performances. | May 31 05:23 | |
| I'll buy things from artists at those performances. I like the artifacts. | May 31 05:23 | |
| DaemonFC | no, I tried a broad sample of stuff at Jamendo, and it was like....the best of it wasn't even worth keeping a copy of | May 31 05:23 |
| oiaohm | Its the respect side I have the problem with. Record compays havign the right to take a person work and give back bugger all is no were near respectful to artists. | May 31 05:23 |
| Eruaran | twitter: that is good... in fact, if someone doesn't ask you to pay at the door you should ask management if the artist is getting paid to perform (becuase there may be exploitation going on, especially if the artist is young). | May 31 05:24 |
| Recording companies don't own my computer. | May 31 05:24 | |
| I won't keep people from performing without charge | May 31 05:25 | |
| neonfloss | I have a problem with the lack of adaptation. when new technology comes along you need to embrace it. large record companies have failed to do so. thats why im caught in the middle | May 31 05:25 |
| oiaohm | Artists get exploited at all levels twitter. | May 31 05:25 |
| but I expect people to get a cut of sales or something | May 31 05:25 | |
| DaemonFC | I still buy the records | May 31 05:25 |
| oiaohm | That is not what happens always twitter. | May 31 05:25 |
| sometimes people play for fun, I'm OK with that | May 31 05:25 | |
| oiaohm | It should be the law but it is not twitter. | May 31 05:25 |
| oiaohm | Some contracts you only get paid for the first 10 000 copies sold. | May 31 05:26 |
| I don't make people pay to watch me as I ride my bike, I ride for fun. | May 31 05:26 | |
| oiaohm | After that everything goes to the recording company. | May 31 05:26 |
| Record contracts are crap. | May 31 05:26 | |
| oiaohm | Same with concerts. | May 31 05:26 |
| that's why I don't like paying the people who make those contracts | May 31 05:26 | |
| DaemonFC | they agreed to sign the deal | May 31 05:26 |
| DaemonFC | they got what they agreed to | May 31 05:27 |
| oiaohm | You may only be paid up to a particuar number of people in the door. | May 31 05:27 |
| Eruaran | twitter: its ok if an artist wants to perform without charge, thats not what I'm talking about - exploitation does occur, I've seen it hundreds of times. | May 31 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Again not what you call fair. | May 31 05:27 |
| neonfloss | I think there is no point to argue whether downloading copyrighted materials you arnt authorized to. public action is not based on whether they think its right, rather because its the best source for music online. I think thats the bigger issue | May 31 05:27 |
| the bigger issue is control of culture | May 31 05:27 | |
| oiaohm | Bigger issue again is abuse of the artists making the culture. | May 31 05:28 |
| we should not give control of music to a few large companies and then call it "free choice" | May 31 05:28 | |
| Eruaran | you get people saying things to you like, "we can't pay you but it will be good exposure for you" and they manipulate young artists and bands into playing as if the establisment they're playing at is doing them a favor by letting them play thee | May 31 05:28 |
| oiaohm | That you would not have the culture in the first place without them twitter. | May 31 05:28 |
| people should have freedom to share | May 31 05:28 | |
| culture is restricted by recording companies, not expanded | May 31 05:28 | |
| oiaohm | If the artist wishes it. So sharing private photos of you that you never wanted to see the light of day would be fine twitter. | May 31 05:29 |
| people have been singing and dancing long before studios though they could own everything. | May 31 05:29 | |
| DaemonFC | so now you're saing the artist is stupid | May 31 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | and doesn't understanda contract | May 31 05:29 |
| they will sing and dance long after | May 31 05:29 | |
| neonfloss | oiaohm, abuse of artists? both consumers and labels are abusing. so which side is right? | May 31 05:29 |
| freedom is right floss | May 31 05:29 | |
| sharing is right | May 31 05:29 | |
| oiaohm | Consumers can choose there path so support artists better if they wish neonfloss. More being aware to make sure the artist is getting treated right. | May 31 05:30 |
| no one should be earning a living violating your freedom or your right to share what you can copy. | May 31 05:30 | |
| oiaohm | With the singling and dancing of old. People are still allowed to do that. | May 31 05:31 |
| It is best to treat everyone with respect, starting with yourself. | May 31 05:31 | |
| oiaohm | Remember some karrokie nights some of those suck badly. | May 31 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Not everyone is perfect. The old culture did not care. | May 31 05:31 |
| Look at YouTube. | May 31 05:31 | |
| Eruaran | I was in a band once many years ago where we got caught up on a party circit. It was fun and all but we never got paid. It was a drain after a while, you did a lot of work, paid your own travel expenses, carting gear around and nobody wants to give you a dime. Thats bad. Eventually we said, "no more free gigs". | May 31 05:31 |
| people prefer it to broadcast | May 31 05:32 | |
| neonfloss | I have problems with the current system. it is badly injured. even though its not 'right' imo to pirate, its likely the fastest way to bring down the big four. | May 31 05:32 |
| it is always right to share | May 31 05:32 | |
| don't call it "pirate" | May 31 05:32 | |
| oiaohm | Sharing you own work or work others have giving you permssion is share is fine. | May 31 05:32 |
| duplication is not theft | May 31 05:32 | |
| sharing is not theft | May 31 05:32 | |
| oiaohm | Now how about sharing you private photos without permission twitter. | May 31 05:32 |
| oiaohm | Remember its copyright that protects them too. | May 31 05:33 |
| I don't need your permission to help my neighbor learn or entertain themselves. | May 31 05:33 | |
| oiaohm | Everyone has some secert they don't want everyone to know twitter. | May 31 05:33 |
| copyright is not protecting anyone's private pictures | May 31 05:33 | |
| oiaohm | Copyright is assigned to every produced item. | May 31 05:33 |
| there are lots of violations | May 31 05:34 | |
| big companies laugh in your face | May 31 05:34 | |
| Eruaran | If pictures are private, I doubt you'd share them with anybody you don't trust and so wouldn't have masses of people sharing them anyway. | May 31 05:34 |
| send thugs to threaten | May 31 05:34 | |
| oiaohm | Its the same basic respect Eruaran | May 31 05:35 |
| If you trust your pictures to non free software, facebook and other stuff and try to share them, you are in for a nasty surprise. | May 31 05:35 | |
| oiaohm | If you got your hands on someones photo you knew they did not want released. | May 31 05:35 |
| It is not the same at all, Ohm | May 31 05:35 | |
| oiaohm | Releasing to the public would be disrespecting them. | May 31 05:35 |
| oiaohm | It is the same in my mind twitter. | May 31 05:36 |
| you are confused | May 31 05:36 | |
| oiaohm | Respect is respect. | May 31 05:36 |
| and have a poor sense of morals | May 31 05:36 | |
| Eruaran | People should read YouTube's terms carefully before uploading material. | May 31 05:36 |
| ohm, you would invade someone's privacy and try to equate that with sharing a song | May 31 05:37 | |
| that's insane | May 31 05:37 | |
| Eruaran | Songs are usually meant to be shared | May 31 05:37 |
| Eruaran | heard in public | May 31 05:37 |
| exactly | May 31 05:37 | |
| Eruaran | What good is a song nobody hears ? | May 31 05:37 |
| oiaohm | Its like all things a person who kills in a crime normally does not start out going to do that. | May 31 05:37 |
| murder on your mind, ohm? | May 31 05:38 | |
| oiaohm | Each time its just there morals get pushed back a little more. | May 31 05:38 |
| neonfloss | guys. this discussion is becoming unintelligent. | May 31 05:38 |
| neonfloss | stop? | May 31 05:38 |
| oiaohm | Until one day killing does not look like that big of a problem. | May 31 05:39 |
| so, you are equating sharing with murder? | May 31 05:39 | |
| most copyright warriors do for some reason | May 31 05:39 | |
| must be killing them that people are so nice to each other and having a good time with free music | May 31 05:39 | |
| :) | May 31 05:40 | |
| oiaohm | You are heading down the path of disrepect when you do share something against someones permission. | May 31 05:40 |
| ziggyfish | true | May 31 05:40 |
| oiaohm | Questions is how far will you go. | May 31 05:40 |
| oiaohm | How far will your morals get broken. | May 31 05:40 |
| obey, the ohm. respect the ruler. dis your neighbors so that ohm might earn a buck. | May 31 05:41 | |
| oiaohm | Before you wake up its not good idea to undermine your minds respect of others. | May 31 05:41 |
| you have no morals, if you can equate sharing with murder | May 31 05:41 | |
| I respect my neighbors, which is why I think sharing is good | May 31 05:42 | |
| oiaohm | That is taken from a moral text that example by the way. | May 31 05:42 |
| we should all be richer if we can | May 31 05:42 | |
| and we can all effortlessly copy music | May 31 05:42 | |
| oiaohm | Yet you don't respect the person you never met. | May 31 05:42 |
| don't project, ohm | May 31 05:42 | |
| oiaohm | Even if they could be your neighbor and you don't know it. | May 31 05:42 |
| most musicians like their fans, ohm | May 31 05:43 | |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, often it's not the singer who want's to make the buck, but the record company. | May 31 05:43 |
| if my neighbor just happened to be one of my favorite musicians and I tried to share their music with them, I think they would be happy. | May 31 05:43 | |
| it's ohm that wants to make a buck. | May 31 05:44 | |
| he's here to waste time | May 31 05:44 | |
| Eruaran | Remember the guy who redirected all Firefox users who have the Adblock Plus plugin to a protest site ? Saying they were stealing ? | May 31 05:44 |
| ziggyfish | So I respect the singer by playing their music, but I give no respect to a company who gives me none in return | May 31 05:44 |
| Eruaran | Becuase they blocked ads they were called theives. | May 31 05:44 |
| Eruaran | Depriving our misguided antagonist of his income. | May 31 05:44 |
| Eruaran | In otherwords, thats all his site was for. | May 31 05:45 |
| ziggyfish | A company who supports DRM, needs no respect | May 31 05:45 |
| oiaohm | ziggyfish: not all cases do artist sell threw record companies. | May 31 05:45 |
| DaemonFC | you can block ads in any browser | May 31 05:45 |
| oiaohm | ads is a complex one. | May 31 05:46 |
| oiaohm | Because number 1 person downloading them is paying for the bandwidth. | May 31 05:46 |
| Eruaran | The point I'm making is if you take the logic of some to its conclusion, you can be called a theif by anyone. | May 31 05:46 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, in which case I would buy their stuff. | May 31 05:46 |
| oiaohm | So not blanket don't care ziggyfish like twitter is that it all should be free. | May 31 05:47 |
| Eruaran | If you block ads on your TV are you a thief depriving Channel 10 of their income ? | May 31 05:47 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, the artist has to make a living some how | May 31 05:47 |
| I care, ohm, that is why I share | May 31 05:47 | |
| Eruaran | Advertisers pay for their ads, weather you watch them or not. | May 31 05:48 |
| oiaohm | The important thing to me is respect of artist remains. | May 31 05:48 |
| ziggyfish | the fact is that record companies take more than what the artist get | May 31 05:48 |
| oiaohm | Is very simple to end up down a moral path where artists don't get respected. | May 31 05:48 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, I agree | May 31 05:48 |
| oiaohm | You always have to be aware when you start taking steps that break morals that you are. So you stop before you harm the wrong people. | May 31 05:49 |
| oiaohm | Protesting against record companies is one thing. Harming independant artists is another. | May 31 05:50 |
| *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") | May 31 05:51 | |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm, but people have different morals, so it's easyer said than done | May 31 05:51 |
| oiaohm | Basic morals is the same. | May 31 05:51 |
| neonfloss | no. | May 31 05:51 |
| ziggyfish | nope | May 31 05:51 |
| oiaohm | Respect of others without it cilivation as we know it would fail. | May 31 05:51 |
| oiaohm | The basic morals is what makes cilivation work. | May 31 05:52 |
| ziggyfish | Bill Gates comes to mind as one who doesn't follow these morals? | May 31 05:53 |
| oiaohm | And as per all moral breaches lot class him as vial. | May 31 05:53 |
| oiaohm | Basic morals don't stop people from braking them. Breaking them just has its price. | May 31 05:54 |
| ziggyfish | i say treat people has they treat you | May 31 05:55 |
| oiaohm | That is still respect. You provide them with equal respect as they show you. Problem with that is you are never better than them and you can get off on the wrong foot with people and not give them a chance either. | May 31 05:57 |
| oiaohm | People do reword the basic morals but they are always there. | May 31 05:58 |
| ziggyfish | Problem with that is you are never better - everyone is created equal | May 31 06:00 |
| ziggyfish | you can get off on the wrong foot with people and not give them a chance either - if they start being nice to me I be nice back | May 31 06:01 |
| oiaohm | If someone treats you bad by mistake and you respond better you are better then. | May 31 06:01 |
| you show great disrespect for both me and my neighbors by telling me that we can't help each other. you imagine yourself our master. | May 31 06:01 | |
| oiaohm | Do you have to disrespect others to help you neighbor twitter. | May 31 06:02 |
| ziggyfish | true | May 31 06:02 |
| no | May 31 06:02 | |
| oiaohm | That is the point twitter. | May 31 06:02 |
| Making a copy shows respect for everyone involved. | May 31 06:02 | |
| oiaohm | You are choosing two. | May 31 06:02 |
| your lack of respect for my freedom is annoying | May 31 06:03 | |
| oiaohm | If you are aware you are choosing to disrespect another person wishes and do it anyhow its still disrespect. | May 31 06:03 |
| fortunately, you are a tiny and extreme minority | May 31 06:03 | |
| oiaohm | You call it lack of respect of freedom. | May 31 06:04 |
| Would it be disrespect for you to shut up because I said that's what I wanted or would it be disrespectful for me to ask? | May 31 06:04 | |
| oiaohm | You have the freedom to slowly destroy your morals piece by piece if you wish. | May 31 06:04 |
| your greed and lack of respect for your neighbors is immoral | May 31 06:04 | |
| you think you can control people | May 31 06:05 | |
| oiaohm | Just don't kid yourself about it twitter. | May 31 06:05 |
| and that those who disobey are evil | May 31 06:05 | |
| that's silly | May 31 06:05 | |
| oiaohm | Kid you self that is perfectly ok. Is how people end up with there morals coming apart. | May 31 06:05 |
| *proteus (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!") | May 31 06:05 | |
| oiaohm | A person who steals a loaf of bread ot feed a person does not say stealing is ok. It was a forced thing. | May 31 06:06 |
| A person who copies a loaf of bread does not steal | May 31 06:07 | |
| this conversation runs in circles | May 31 06:07 | |
| I'm tired of it | May 31 06:07 | |
| ziggyfish | twitter, how do you copy a loaf of bread? | May 31 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Simple fact you did not have permission to copy the bread in that argement. So you did something to the bread you did not have permission to do. | May 31 06:08 |
| oiaohm | If you want to disrespect particular people call it what it is. | May 31 06:09 |
| so, ohm, if I cold copy a loaf of bread and end world hunger, I would be wrong to if you did not make a buck at it. | May 31 06:09 | |
| oiaohm | Don't wrap it up in justificaiton logic. | May 31 06:09 |
| justify your restrictions on my freedom and the cultural poverty it creates. | May 31 06:09 | |
| oiaohm | If you did it without permission you still should admit you should not have. But for the great good choose to. | May 31 06:10 |
| laws require justification, especially when they violate freedom | May 31 06:10 | |
| oiaohm | Morals can be followed and allow braking. It is the way they are. | May 31 06:11 |
| morals are principles | May 31 06:11 | |
| you can't break them and have them | May 31 06:11 | |
| oiaohm | You can. | May 31 06:11 |
| oiaohm | Break them and know you have. | May 31 06:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically do not make an lie to yourself to hide what you are doing. | May 31 06:12 |
| oiaohm | Justfication logic. Person will always try to make up some justifcation logic so they don't have to admit to themselves they have broken there morals. | May 31 06:14 |
| I help my neighbors when I can. | May 31 06:14 | |
| oiaohm | One of my key things is always be truthful to myself. | May 31 06:14 |
| how do you justify not helping them? | May 31 06:14 | |
| oiaohm | May not always like the truth. But I am better to that. | May 31 06:14 |
| for the sake of Sony's bottom line? | May 31 06:15 | |
| oiaohm | Have I said you cannot. | May 31 06:15 |
| oiaohm | I have not really. | May 31 06:15 |
| You are a slave | May 31 06:15 | |
| oiaohm | I have said you must accept that its a breach of respect. | May 31 06:15 |
| I don't have any respect for you decision to not help your neighbor | May 31 06:15 | |
| I think it is a cowardly decision. | May 31 06:15 | |
| You know the artist is exploited | May 31 06:16 | |
| you know your neighbor is ripped off | May 31 06:16 | |
| oiaohm | So you accept you are breach the respect with the record company. | May 31 06:16 |
| oiaohm | For the great good. | May 31 06:16 |
| you have the power to help but you refuse and consider yourself better than those who will | May 31 06:16 | |
| there is no great good in recording monopolies | May 31 06:16 | |
| oiaohm | And make sure you don't do to like artists doing the right thing. | May 31 06:16 |
| and you know it | May 31 06:16 | |
| really though, you are here to waste time. | May 31 06:17 | |
| and that's disrespectful on it's own. | May 31 06:17 | |
| oiaohm | It is my time. I accept what I do with it. | May 31 06:18 |
| neonfloss | guys. | May 31 06:19 |
| neonfloss | agree to disagree. | May 31 06:20 |
| neonfloss | you are not getting anywhere | May 31 06:20 |
| oiaohm | Some how I don't see twitter going to accept that 1 evil does not make a 2 evil right. | May 31 06:21 |
| neonfloss | but is there a time when you can only fight evil with evil? | May 31 06:21 |
| oiaohm | Yes but it still does not make it right. Its something you should be forced to do. Not just willing walk up and do. | May 31 06:23 |
| Eruaran | http://phandroid.com/2009/05/27/what-if-ubuntu-could-run-android-applications-it-can/ | May 31 06:23 |
| neonfloss | I dont think its 'right' to download unauthorized content, but I dont think its 'right' to buy from the big four. but I cant live without some of that music. | May 31 06:26 |
| oiaohm | So neonfloss you accept what you are doing. I am fine with that. You are not lieing to yourself. | May 31 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Eruaran: I hope we start seeing this cross distribution running of applications more. | May 31 06:31 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm: it looks promising doesn't it | May 31 06:32 |
| oiaohm | It will solve 1 problom for closed source applications and linux. | May 31 06:32 |
| neonfloss | is there any decent ocr software for linux? | May 31 06:34 |
| Eruaran | it makes gnu/linux the choice for working between your desktop and android phone | May 31 06:34 |
| Eruaran | I haven't looked into OCR software for Linux before neonfloss | May 31 06:36 |
| Eruaran | I'm Googling and looking at reviews right now | May 31 06:37 |
| kde has something | May 31 06:37 | |
| it's part of their scanner application | May 31 06:37 | |
| kooka | May 31 06:37 | |
| http://kooka.kde.org/doc/faq.php | May 31 06:37 | |
| Eruaran | oh ok | May 31 06:39 |
| Eruaran | Looks like there's no active dev on it any more | May 31 06:47 |
| neonfloss | hmm | May 31 06:52 |
| neonfloss | I still use windows for ocr | May 31 06:52 |
| neonfloss | the new omnipage, 17 I think, is pretty amazing at accuracy | May 31 06:52 |
| oiaohm | Hmm kooka does not support hp released ocr. | May 31 06:54 |
| kooka works for me. | May 31 06:54 | |
| if it does not work for you, fix it | May 31 06:55 | |
| The Register is not much to read these days http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/simon_halep/ | May 31 06:55 | |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract_(software) | May 31 06:55 |
| sinking to tabloid level | May 31 06:55 | |
| oiaohm | I was just looking at its OCR engines twitter | May 31 06:55 |
| oiaohm | Tesseract is missing. | May 31 06:56 |
| it's made to take any engine, even a 10 year old non free one can be welded on if you have the source code | May 31 06:56 | |
| *ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving") | May 31 06:59 | |
| Eruaran | The Register is not what it used to be. | May 31 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Most have not been for years. | May 31 07:05 |
| oiaohm | Just they don't have MS spin and other spin to fill there pages. | May 31 07:05 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: there's a new one | May 31 07:07 |
| schestowitz | Hold on. | May 31 07:07 |
| schestowitz | OCR... | May 31 07:07 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, The Register is a mess | May 31 07:08 |
| schestowitz | MS ads, podasts, writers that are Microsoft cronies. | May 31 07:08 |
| schestowitz | *poscasts | May 31 07:08 |
| schestowitz | The founder left and sold it | May 31 07:08 |
| hey Roy! | May 31 07:09 | |
| here's an interesting comment speculating on the real use of M$'s bond money http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10532-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=64402&messageID=1199032 | May 31 07:09 | |
| how much does M$ owe in fines these days? | May 31 07:10 | |
| The article was a puff piece, as most M$ articles are because M$ does not tell anyone anything. | May 31 07:11 | |
| The author asked a funny question, "What’s not to love about companies with gobs of cash issuing bonds?" | May 31 07:11 | |
| My answer would be fraud. | May 31 07:11 | |
| What "gobs" of cash does M$ really have? | May 31 07:12 | |
| article comes from http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=17788 | May 31 07:12 | |
| one small M$ investment just lost a chunk of it's worth http://chiefofficers.net/888333888/cms/index.php/news/infotech/industry/infotech_facebook_s_one_third_drop_in_value | May 31 07:13 | |
| not as bad as the 66% loss M$FT has suffered over the years since 2000 | May 31 07:14 | |
| ha ha, Windows 7 2 hour reboot panic http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133664&intsrc=news_ts_head | May 31 07:24 | |
| this is what you get when you use an OS with kill switches. | May 31 07:25 | |
| M$ said they would send Windows 7 into a 2 hour reboot annoyance schedule June 1st. | May 31 07:25 | |
| they retracted the statement as a glitch, but their "right" to do that kind of thing at any time. | May 31 07:26 | |
| It's been June 1st, July 1st and August 1st now. All two or three excited users will be all broken up when the real date finally arrives. | May 31 07:27 | |
| oiaohm | Bait and switch twitter | May 31 07:28 |
| FC was talking about stuff that people can't give away as being of low quality. I think he's found his match in Windows 7 and Vista. | May 31 07:28 | |
| oiaohm | I will give FC that the indexing of open source media sites need something so people can find what they like. | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | "It needs about this much money (the amount raised | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | by the bonds) to pay the currently levied EU fines. | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | With probably more coming from other countries | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | such as India and China. " | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | Interesting | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | China should sue MS like Intel | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | Didn't know about India | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | But India slammed MS for tax evasion | May 31 07:29 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft hardly responded at all | May 31 07:30 |
| India has been abused like everyone else. | May 31 07:30 | |
| schestowitz | It's too vain and it bribes in India to have people in power asleep | May 31 07:30 |
| oiaohm | MS still has to pay that tax evasion fine. | May 31 07:30 |
| oiaohm | Big thing that most likely wories MS is countries like Australia have laws like the EU as well and have done nothing against them yet. | May 31 07:31 |
| M$ s the biggest user of H1B "guest workers" from India, they basically walked off with Indian citizens as slaves. | May 31 07:32 | |
| oiaohm | Even worse is if USA anti-trust wakes up on MS. | May 31 07:32 |
| M$ hole of the day http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10251544-83.html | May 31 07:33 | |
| someone was pulling the old "blame the user" routine earlier, ha ha. | May 31 07:34 | |
| oiaohm | Drag out the dead horse beat it a few more times no one will notice. twitter | May 31 07:34 |
| another story about Dell's 63% profit drop. | May 31 07:34 | |
| oiaohm | Dell gone ouch. | May 31 07:35 |
| M$ security is quite a dead horse, but M$ keeps calling their next OS, "most secure ever" | May 31 07:35 | |
| oiaohm | Its like a bucket with 1 billion holes an pluging one. | May 31 07:35 |
| my bad, 63% earnings.... | May 31 07:35 | |
| oiaohm | Then hoping water stays in it. | May 31 07:36 |
| http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/Dell_suffers_a_63_percent_dip_in_earnings-nid-57377.html | May 31 07:36 | |
| oiaohm | Yes it leaked slightly slower. | May 31 07:36 |
| Lots of bad PC sales numbers as the recession overtakes Vista failure as the cause of industry woe | May 31 07:37 | |
| Vista failed while PC sales were rising. M$ is hosed now that the numbers are falling. | May 31 07:37 | |
| neonfloss | is now a good time to buy hardware? | May 31 07:37 |
| HP got burnt too but not as bad. | May 31 07:37 | |
| It's been a good time to buy hardware. | May 31 07:38 | |
| oiaohm | IBM been very much what is happing its status normal over hear. | May 31 07:38 |
| Vista failure laptops have been going for three or four hundred bucks for the last couple of years | May 31 07:38 | |
| oiaohm | Dell had the largest exposure to the desktop market. | May 31 07:39 |
| Places like Office Depot can't get rid of them fast enough and they are the lucky survivors. | May 31 07:39 | |
| Dell was one of the biggest pushers of Vista | May 31 07:39 | |
| They still push it | May 31 07:40 | |
| and fail | May 31 07:40 | |
| oiaohm | Windows 7 failure will be even more destructive. | May 31 07:40 |
| oiaohm | Linux has come a long way from time of Vista. Still has a long way to go in places. | May 31 07:40 |
| It's amazing they stick with Windows after they got such a flood of "I want GNU/Linux" on their "Idea Storm" pages. | May 31 07:41 | |
| failure to respond to the market leads to market failure | May 31 07:41 | |
| oiaohm | They are praying it just another windows me. | May 31 07:41 |
| oiaohm | Ie 1 version failure. | May 31 07:41 |
| XP was another ME, they just got themselves through it with "Software Assurance" plans | May 31 07:42 | |
| oiaohm | Now 2 version failures in a row. I don't see how MS is going to get out of that one. | May 31 07:42 |
| oiaohm | XP was got working twitter. | May 31 07:42 |
| oiaohm | ME never was got working right like Vista. | May 31 07:42 |
| XP is not working | May 31 07:43 | |
| it sucks like any other version of Windows, more than some | May 31 07:43 | |
| cobble it together with Citrix, ugh, what shit | May 31 07:43 | |
| please don't call that "working" | May 31 07:44 | |
| daily crashes | May 31 07:44 | |
| sometimes six a day for some applications | May 31 07:44 | |
| heh, another troll headline, this one funnier than most http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217500324&subSection=All+Stories | May 31 07:47 | |
| " Windows 7 Expected To Kill Vista" | May 31 07:47 | |
| it's already dead | May 31 07:48 | |
| must be a zombie OS already | May 31 07:48 | |
| *DaemonFC has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5b4/20090423204732]") | May 31 07:48 | |
| did you get this one in your national insecurity article, Roy http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10252375-83.html | May 31 07:50 | |
| " hackers, who go by the group name "m0sted," breached a server at the Army's McAlester Ammunition Plant in Oklahoma on January 26 and a server at the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers' Transatlantic Center in Winchester, Va., on September 19, 2007, the report said" | May 31 07:50 | |
| "Investigators believe an SQL injection attack was used to exploit a vulnerability in Microsoft's SQL Server database in order to gain access to the servers." | May 31 07:51 | |
| must be stupid users again! | May 31 07:51 | |
| Good thing the US Army is going to deploy Vista fully by the end of the year! | May 31 07:52 | |
| *mib_g3g8t1 (i=7cab39b4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-729e02851ce7606e) has joined #boycottnovell | May 31 07:53 | |
| bing, bing, there goes another $100 million http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/15989-Microsoft-will-spend-big-to-fight-Google.html | May 31 07:56 | |
| oiaohm | Only way to beat google is be better. | May 31 07:57 |
| oiaohm | Ms has not got that point yet. | May 31 07:57 |
| *mib_g3g8t1 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | May 31 07:58 | |
| Google wave washes M$ Bing away. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/28/what-just-happened-thursday-was-supposed-to-be-bing-day/ | May 31 08:03 | |
| ha ha, Google did the bribes right and gave all 4,000 people attending an Android phone. | May 31 08:04 | |
| and those attending were developers not press suckups. | May 31 08:04 | |
| -> Microsoft never stood a chance. As far as the San Francisco developer crowd is concerned, Bing stands for “But It’s Not Google.” | May 31 08:05 | |
| "Bing is not Google" | May 31 08:05 | |
| A story on M$'s bad Karma http://www.lbszone.com/content/view/5053/45/ | May 31 08:06 | |
| *sergeizh (n=sz@ppp85-141-237-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) has joined #boycottnovell | May 31 08:06 | |
| -> Microsoft just has so much bad karma in this industry that I cannot imagine a company like us trusting them on much of anything. Take Silverlight: Microsoft pledged that they will always support Silverlight on Mac and Linux, and on browsers other than IE. Do you really, really believe their promise? | May 31 08:07 | |
| .... Let's try to imagine what a Google Silverlight would have been. | May 31 08:07 | |
| oiaohm | That is the other thing. Google is the master of the last min release from nowhere. | May 31 08:07 |
| oiaohm | Google staff really know how to keep a secret. | May 31 08:08 |
| they know how to keep a promise and not stab their partners in the back too. | May 31 08:09 | |
| continuing the imagination from the article, " It would have been a fully open source product from Google, with a very liberal open source license (BSD or Apache). It would have all the technical specifications published openly. They would pledge to have the Silverlight VM interoperate with JavaScript and HTML5. And a company like Zoho would have a ton of developers working on Google Silverlight-based applications by now — as op | May 31 08:09 | |
| oiaohm | Most of google leaks come from when they need a outside contractor to do something. | May 31 08:09 |
| M$ has zero credibility. | May 31 08:09 | |
| Actually, they have negative credibility. People expect to be screwed when the work with M$ stuff, it's just a matter of when. | May 31 08:10 | |
| oiaohm | Google will most likely do everything silverlight carn barn drm media inside standards. | May 31 08:10 |
| oiaohm | Why give you self headaches. | May 31 08:10 |
| These are the thoughts of Sridhar Vembu CEO, ZOHO Corporation | May 31 08:11 | |
| he also hates IE | May 31 08:11 | |
| oiaohm | In standard broswer developers have to take responsablity for it. | May 31 08:12 |
| oiaohm | Who does not hate IE. | May 31 08:12 |
| oiaohm | IE has cost a fortune in web development time over the years. | May 31 08:12 |
| oiaohm | IE is to the point is brand is so far mud MS might as well kill it and release something that works. | May 31 08:13 |
| *sergeizh (n=sz@ppp85-141-237-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) has left #boycottnovell | May 31 08:14 | |
| Vista, through the magic of the M$ marketing family, will now give you cancer http://www.baltimoresun.com/technology/bal-bz.servidor28may28,0,2011109.story | May 31 08:14 | |
| oiaohm | Wave is targeted at something else as well. | May 31 08:14 |
| oiaohm | Think sharepoint | May 31 08:15 |
| Register misses the point of Linux migration study. http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/05/27/desktop_linux/page2.html | May 31 08:17 | |
| The point was to ignore the fanboys and move quickly where you can | May 31 08:18 | |
| The Register mistakes that as advocacy of mixed networks. | May 31 08:18 | |
| oiaohm | The study was to find what areas of the Linux stack needs work. | May 31 08:18 |
| Nothing could be worse than trying to mix up Windows with anything else. | May 31 08:18 | |
| Hmmm, that's what you do all the time Ohm. | May 31 08:19 | |
| oiaohm | IBM run the study to find areas that need work. | May 31 08:19 |
| not surprising you would see it in a study saying, "Linux migration easier than expected" | May 31 08:19 | |
| schestowitz | 63,000 Windows Bugs Versus the Rarity of Command Lines < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/63000-windows-bugs-linux-cli/ > | May 31 08:19 |
| oiaohm | What is the point of sending resources into areas that don't need work. | May 31 08:19 |
| they ran it to show the results of migrations. | May 31 08:19 | |
| oiaohm | I have been saying all along particular areas don't work twitter. | May 31 08:19 |
| to move people to their services, silly. | May 31 08:20 | |
| and you have been wrong all along too | May 31 08:20 | |
| oiaohm | Them fixed Linux will dominate. | May 31 08:20 |
| oiaohm | Got a fun one for you set a acl in Linux without using command line twitter. | May 31 08:20 |
| all of your nitpicking is irrelevant when the overall user experience is so much better with free software | May 31 08:21 | |
| oiaohm | Problem here twitter those little problems. Disrupt work flows. | May 31 08:21 |
| stick your access control lists in the rubbish, unix file permissions are much easier | May 31 08:21 | |
| oiaohm | Sorry does not cut it twitter. | May 31 08:21 |
| M$'s data traps disrupt migrations, not gnu/linux "flaws" | May 31 08:21 | |
| oiaohm | unix permissions depend on group splitting. | May 31 08:21 |
| group splitting is something every business does | May 31 08:22 | |
| oiaohm | Acl can assign to a number of indvidual users providing more flexable access assignments. | May 31 08:22 |
| it's one of those fundamental organizational things | May 31 08:22 | |
| oiaohm | Even in group spliting some time segmenting in inside that or letting a extra in is important. | May 31 08:23 |
| oiaohm | Its workflow distruptive not having it accessable twitter. | May 31 08:23 |
| besides, none of your nit picking nonsense matters in the real world of work where Winblows is a huge security and performance failure. | May 31 08:23 | |
| oiaohm | twitter you want migrations. | May 31 08:23 |
| oiaohm | These workflow distributions have to go. | May 31 08:24 |
| the way to get migrations is to do migrations, not wait for some mythical perfection | May 31 08:24 | |
| oiaohm | I have seen windows users go as far as saying Linux does not have any acls so we cannot migrate to it. | May 31 08:24 |
| oiaohm | Because they cannot find them graphical. | May 31 08:24 |
| I'm not going to argue with a fanboy like that, he can keep his desktop | May 31 08:25 | |
| oiaohm | Not what we need. People are looking for the features they use. | May 31 08:25 |
| oiaohm | Autosync acl's and others. | May 31 08:25 |
| no they are not, they are looking to get their job done | May 31 08:25 | |
| ACLs mean nothing to most users | May 31 08:25 | |
| they don't care | May 31 08:25 | |
| oiaohm | Ie features they use to get there job done. | May 31 08:25 |
| they want their computers to not crap out daily | May 31 08:25 | |
| they want place keeping from reliable uptime | May 31 08:26 | |
| they want virtual desktops | May 31 08:26 | |
| they want a mail client that does not suck life | May 31 08:26 | |
| oiaohm | virtual desktop most users don't want that. | May 31 08:26 |
| oh yes they do | May 31 08:26 | |
| oiaohm | Funny enough most windows users loss windows with it. | May 31 08:26 |
| oiaohm | They are not use to it. | May 31 08:26 |
| anyone who's ever used virtual desktops never goes back to a single screen | May 31 08:27 | |
| oiaohm | Once use to it twitter. | May 31 08:27 |
| oiaohm | But straight up no. | May 31 08:27 |
| oiaohm | Its just a extra complexity. | May 31 08:27 |
| ignorant opinion should be discarded in favor of those who know better | May 31 08:27 | |
| I've seen it. People who hate their computers want their virtual desktops on Solaris | May 31 08:28 | |
| oiaohm | This is your problem. You discard anything that don't match. | May 31 08:28 |
| they use the four screens CDE gives them and can't imagine doing their job without them | May 31 08:28 | |
| No, I discard ignorance | May 31 08:28 | |
| oiaohm | You seam to think force will cause the change not to be rejected. | May 31 08:29 |
| people with real work to do like virtual desktops | May 31 08:29 | |
| oiaohm | And that virtual desktops suit all users. | May 31 08:29 |
| no, the IBM study does not advocate force. | May 31 08:29 | |
| they advocate avoiding the fanboys | May 31 08:29 | |
| leaving them isolated | May 31 08:30 | |
| oiaohm | Areas of weakness in that study match up to where I know features are missing. | May 31 08:30 |
| there you go again | May 31 08:30 | |
| oiaohm | Or applications. | May 31 08:30 |
| oiaohm | Both can be cured. | May 31 08:30 |
| ignoring tremendous problems in the Windows world to invent them in the free software world. | May 31 08:30 | |
| oiaohm | Harder to cure if you stick head in sand twitter. | May 31 08:30 |
| even harder to cure if no one is using anything. | May 31 08:31 | |
| the way to migrate people is to do the migration | May 31 08:31 | |
| why do you deny this? | May 31 08:31 | |
| oh yeah, to waste time | May 31 08:31 | |
| oiaohm | Because I know the result of trying to do that. | May 31 08:31 |
| oiaohm | I have seen many people do and even once make the stupid misake of migrating wrong users. | May 31 08:32 |
| oiaohm | You have not learnt that leason yet twitter. | May 31 08:32 |
| oiaohm | The stuff that needs fixing seams minor but it is important to increase people who can be migrated without issues. | May 31 08:33 |
| don't project your mistakes on me, ohm | May 31 08:33 | |
| the issues will never be fixed because M$ is busy making new ones all the time. | May 31 08:33 | |
| oiaohm | Issues are not MS releated twitter. | May 31 08:34 |
| oiaohm | Like GUI not being able to set all permission types on system that is not MS releated. | May 31 08:34 |
| oiaohm | That is a feature gap. | May 31 08:34 |
| Konq has had that for ages, what are you talking about? | May 31 08:35 | |
| oiaohm | autosyncing filesystems exist for Linxu for cluster. But not setup in laptops. | May 31 08:35 |
| uh, rsync + cron? | May 31 08:35 | |
| oiaohm | Nop. | May 31 08:35 |
| oiaohm | Laptop can be connected at intermit times | May 31 08:36 |
| or just plain old NFS | May 31 08:36 | |
| oiaohm | so cron does not cut it. | May 31 08:36 |
| oiaohm | NFS does not cache yet. | May 31 08:36 |
| oiaohm | NFS will be a option once cachefs is merged. | May 31 08:36 |
| Try to tell me Windoze does a better job with SMB, lol | May 31 08:36 | |
| oiaohm | Supprisingly one of the best options with current tech with Linux is using samba. | May 31 08:37 |
| FFS, shut up. | May 31 08:37 | |
| oiaohm | Yet Linux permissions are not supported correctly. | May 31 08:37 |
| broadcast networking should have died in the 80s | May 31 08:37 | |
| oiaohm | MS has it kinda work. I agree not as good as it should. | May 31 08:38 |
| oiaohm | But good enough that to the user it appear to just work. | May 31 08:38 |
| nothing with XP "just work" | May 31 08:38 | |
| oiaohm | even that admin has worked ass off making it work like that. | May 31 08:38 |
| oiaohm | Appears to just work twitter. | May 31 08:39 |
| Your users wold be better off if you would just let the nice people at Red Hat or IBM help you set things up right. | May 31 08:39 | |
| Then you system would not appear to work, it would work. | May 31 08:39 | |
| :) | May 31 08:39 | |
| nice simple migration | May 31 08:40 | |
| oiaohm | Laptops are a major bane. | May 31 08:40 |
| not in the free software world | May 31 08:40 | |
| oiaohm | Does not matter who at this stage is setting it up twitter. | May 31 08:40 |
| oiaohm | Most of the bits to tech to get on top of that should be here by end of year twitter. | May 31 08:41 |
| Ray Ozzie makes excuses for Vista Failure. Mostly blames OEMs and M$'s big ambitious dreams that could not be realized in six years of development http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10245558-56.html [warning, link to Ima Fried shill] | May 31 08:43 | |
| schestowitz | "Did you hit bing.com today? If you got a blank page from Microsoft’s new search tool, it’s not because Bill Gates is blocking your non-Internet-Explorer browser. Microsoft has confirmed to VentureBeat that it’s working on fixing technical glitches that sometimes deliver a blank page. Sometimes you get a Coming Soon page." http://venturebeat.com/2009/05/28/microsoft-bing-would-be-awesome-if-i-could-use-it/ | May 31 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 articles: about 40 | May 31 08:45 |
| schestowitz | Vista: less than 10 | May 31 08:45 |
| schestowitz | Then wait.. which is the real product and which one is vapour? :-p | May 31 08:45 |
| bada bing, badda fail | May 31 08:47 | |
| OS News linked to Sam V's mono article http://www.osnews.com/thread?366207 | May 31 08:47 | |
| M$ owes the EU about 1,400 Euros http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39651443,00.htm | May 31 08:50 | |
| schestowitz | Yahoo CEO Open to Microsoft Deal < http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124344764002659261.html?ru=yahoo#mod=yahoo_hs >. but now with Google? Because of Microsoft's political corruption? | May 31 08:50 |
| that would eat up most of the new debt | May 31 08:50 | |
| what's the current exchange rate of dollars to euros? | May 31 08:51 | |
| 1.4, so M$ owes the EU roughly 3 billion dollars. | May 31 08:52 | |
| outch | May 31 08:52 | |
| schestowitz | This company pretends to be OSS: http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINLQ33328320090526?rpc=44 | May 31 08:53 |
| schestowitz | OpenX.... | May 31 08:53 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like open | May 31 08:53 |
| schestowitz | And sometimes they pretend... | May 31 08:53 |
| schestowitz | Industry Moves: Yahoo’s Audience Head Jeff Dosset Leaves After Eight Months http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-industry-moves-yahoos-audience-head-jeff-dosset-leaves/ | May 31 09:00 |
| oiaohm | twitter: the acl one is really simple to fix really. Don't just invisablely fail tell user why they don't have a feature. If you opened up the advanced permissions and it said acl not enabled on this filesystem or something equal would prevent problem maybe go as far as including a button there so approved users could enable it.. | May 31 09:03 |
| an interesting opinion about ACLs http://mobile.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=21085&offset=50&rows=60&threshold=-1#351928 | May 31 09:09 | |
| " Bragging about ACL's just makes you look stupid, because anyone with real world enterprise IT experience knows they are worse than useless in real life and end up being less secure due to complexity" | May 31 09:09 | |
| :) | May 31 09:09 | |
| Seems to be a really old troll http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0103.2/1070.html | May 31 09:10 | |
| oiaohm | ACL are a tool used right advantage. | May 31 09:11 |
| oiaohm | Abused a nightmare. | May 31 09:11 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/05/canada-ip-battlelines-plagiarized-report-piracy-guesses.ars << This is pure funny. | May 31 09:12 |
| oiaohm | Most common people I know that use ACL's are project managers. | May 31 09:13 |
| oiaohm | Who are having to deal with leads in other departments. Instead of emailing the file around and around and around. | May 31 09:13 |
| just stop | May 31 09:14 | |
| schestowitz | This is weird. http://www.phoneplusmag.com/hotnews/financing-terms-worry-microsoft-partners.html Why do nations look fore occupiers rather then use Free software? | May 31 09:15 |
| it is strange | May 31 09:18 | |
| but it shows M$ running out of money | May 31 09:19 | |
| they tighten credit because they don't have money to lend, even in this fictional $100,000 for a bunch of empty boxes way. | May 31 09:19 | |
| oiaohm | Hmm I can some how see people making the hardware and software order independant. | May 31 09:21 |
| schestowitz | Google increasingly battles Facebook in search < http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/rss/story/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090525/as_japan_google.html?.v=7 > I'm not buying it... | May 31 09:21 |
| What could be more absurd than financing for software? It's not like they are selling turbines or other equipment that actually requires a large capital outlay. | May 31 09:21 | |
| schestowitz | Watch this, twitter | May 31 09:21 |
| oiaohm | MS Financing software is not new twitter. | May 31 09:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.phoneplusmag.com/hotnews/financing-terms-worry-microsoft-partners.html http://www.crn.com/software/217700499;jsessionid=LOO5DCTT4C1DOQSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN | May 31 09:21 |
| Did you see facebook lost 33% of it's value? | May 31 09:21 | |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft Corp. is tightening the requirements on financing partner sales – a move some partners say will be hard to swallow, especially in the sour economic environment." | May 31 09:22 |
| schestowitz | "Solution providers who've long raved about the convenience of Microsoft's financing program say they're stunned by a new Microsoft mandate that requires them to include a larger amount of Microsoft products in deals. " | May 31 09:22 |
| Yes, I was reading it. | May 31 09:22 | |
| schestowitz | Ti didn't lose value | May 31 09:22 |
| schestowitz | MS overinflated it to prevent Google from taking it perhaps | May 31 09:22 |
| Yes, but they sold another chunk off at a much lower price recently | May 31 09:22 | |
| national insecurity revisited http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10252375-83.html | May 31 09:24 | |
| big $100 million wasted promoting Bing http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/15989-Microsoft-will-spend-big-to-fight-Google.html | May 31 09:24 | |
| Google Wave washes M$ Bing away http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/28/what-just-happened-thursday-was-supposed-to-be-bing-day/ | May 31 09:24 | |
| schestowitz | bad headline: Microsoft Removes Password Stealers from 860,000 Computers < http://www.spamfighter.com/News-12442-Microsoft-Removes-Password-Stealers-from-860000-Computers.htm > | May 31 09:24 |
| schestowitz | What were these doing there IN THE FIRST PLACE? | May 31 09:25 |
| schestowitz | Oh, thank Microsoft! | May 31 09:25 |
| schestowitz | It saves Windows | May 31 09:25 |
| schestowitz | From its own incompetence | May 31 09:25 |
| Dell loses 63% of earnings http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/Dell_suffers_a_63_percent_dip_in_earnings-nid-57377.html | May 31 09:25 | |
| Windows 7 reboot panic http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133664&intsrc=news_ts_head | May 31 09:25 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, got those | May 31 09:25 |
| schestowitz | I read the log this morning | May 31 09:25 |
| and, finally, Facebook value loss http://chiefofficers.net/888333888/cms/index.php/news/infotech/industry/infotech_facebook_s_one_third_drop_in_value | May 31 09:26 | |
| schestowitz | Don't mention the b*ing much | May 31 09:26 |
| schestowitz | That helps MS | May 31 09:26 |
| schestowitz | It wants people to go to the site and try it | May 31 09:26 |
| schestowitz | Now they use Woz to get people curious | May 31 09:26 |
| schestowitz | All the MS bloggers are Woz Woz Woz | May 31 09:26 |
| schestowitz | The W-E marketers must be busy.. | May 31 09:26 |
| schestowitz | Windows 7 Beta Shuts Down July 1 < http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=217600886&subSection=News > | May 31 09:27 |
| oiaohm | Ok what is Woz | May 31 09:27 |
| schestowitz | The army breach was SQL injection | May 31 09:27 |
| schestowitz | Not very OS-specific | May 31 09:27 |
| schestowitz | Just poor s/w that does not sanotise input | May 31 09:27 |
| schestowitz | *sanitise | May 31 09:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Wozniak | May 31 09:28 |
| schestowitz | watch out, twitter: Phishers Now Hitting Twitter < http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/26/phishers-now-hitting-twitter/ > | May 31 09:28 |
| :) | May 31 09:28 | |
| I thought I'd give you the recap, so it would not be lost in the sharing is not murder bullshit from last night | May 31 09:29 | |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft and SAP merger – Is or is not to happen? < http://www.webnewswire.com/node/455363 > Unlikely. They tried in 2004 and failed. | May 31 09:29 |
| oiaohm | I saw one on the army breach that say MS SQL server. | May 31 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 31 09:29 |
| oiaohm | So it had to be windows something. | May 31 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Does the server need to prevent this? | May 31 09:29 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about this yesterday anyway | May 31 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Article was from InfoWeek IIRC | May 31 09:30 |
| oiaohm | Does Mysql on Linux run as a root user. | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Pro-MS press | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | They talked about anti-virus sw | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: does it matter? | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | I think they injected links, no? | May 31 09:30 |
| oiaohm | Not running as root lowers the damage. | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe they used it to hijack the server? | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Imagine that... | May 31 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Not only corrupting data but also getting in via queries.. | May 31 09:31 |
| oiaohm | Has happened in the past with old MS SQL worms. | May 31 09:31 |
| oiaohm | We don't know how old of MS SQL server this was. | May 31 09:31 |
| I think the debt and tightening credit as more OEMs fall over are an interesting story. | May 31 09:32 | |
| Looks grim when you look at all of it together. | May 31 09:33 | |
| Fines too. | May 31 09:33 | |
| fines, debt, business failure | May 31 09:33 | |
| schestowitz | Darryl K. Taft promotes MS in Ziff Davis: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Application-Development/19-Reasons-Why-Microsoft-is-Huge-with-Developers-And-One-Reason-Why-Not-144136/ | May 31 09:33 |
| oiaohm | Every bubble burst in a market gets nasty twitter. | May 31 09:33 |
| M$ is not being very transparent about money, ohm. It stinks. | May 31 09:34 | |
| I like the karma story... | May 31 09:34 | |
| eweek's gotta respond to that | May 31 09:35 | |
| very busy WE people indeed. | May 31 09:35 | |
| I'm going to sleep now, it is very late | May 31 09:37 | |
| gn | May 31 09:37 | |
| schestowitz | ""It's time for Microsoft to face reality about search and the Internet," blogs Henry Blodget, CEO and editor in chief of The Business Insider, in a scathing critique of Microsoft Corp. (NASDAQ:MSFT) Friday morning." http://seekingalpha.com/article/140309-blodget-blasts-ballmer-face-reality?source=yahoo | May 31 09:38 |
| oiaohm | I will not be supprised if bing disappears into MS vaporware to be reborn under a new name. | May 31 09:45 |
| schestowitz | The US press and spinners attack the EU | May 31 09:45 |
| schestowitz | This is getting ugly | May 31 09:45 |
| oiaohm | Google kinda toasted it name well. | May 31 09:45 |
| schestowitz | Well, they try | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | New buzz | May 31 09:46 |
| oiaohm | Only warming up. | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | "open source" component | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | New name.. | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | $100m (some say $80m) in marketing | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | They have no choice | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | They want to control infromation, too | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Not just desktop toolset | May 31 09:46 |
| oiaohm | They require a search engine so w-e can operate in stealth. | May 31 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Facebook raises $200 million from Russian Internet firm http://www.marketwatch.com/story/facebook-takes-200-mln-from-russian-internet-firm?siteid=yhoof | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: maybe | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | But why would Google make a difference to them? | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | You think WE wants to spy on people? | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | As in, use data to eavesdrop and plan? | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | Like they do for Mcirosoft in Twitter? | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | They have spying tools for Twitter now | May 31 09:47 |
| schestowitz | Maybe with sw patents soon... | May 31 09:48 |
| oiaohm | I suspect the do now. | May 31 09:48 |
| oiaohm | the/they | May 31 09:48 |
| oiaohm | Because it does not take MS protectors long to find anti-microsoft line sites. | May 31 09:48 |
| oiaohm | What is better than a harmless search engine spider schestowitz. | May 31 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | May 31 09:50 |
| schestowitz | Well, that's how they shoot down reviews | May 31 09:50 |
| schestowitz | Or bribe the 'right' people | May 31 09:50 |
| schestowitz | Based on part evidence | May 31 09:51 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10252446-93.html Federated Media Publisher Chas Edwards to join Digg | May 31 09:51 |
| schestowitz | Check this out | May 31 09:51 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10248462-71.html | May 31 09:52 |
| schestowitz | "It seems as if Microsoft employees comment regularly in Microsoft's favor on this board. How may times have we read how great Visa is, or how good Windows 7 will be? | May 31 09:52 |
| schestowitz | Why shouldn't people working for other corporations do the same? Honesty and truth have nothing to do with business and marketing. Only money counts." | May 31 09:52 |
| schestowitz | "I find it very hard to believe that Microsoft would stoop so low as to actually pay people to support their view on any internet forum. | May 31 09:52 |
| schestowitz | NO company is that bad. Paying people to do that could be considered dishonest. " | May 31 09:52 |
| schestowitz | This one looks nice: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10251841-64.html | May 31 09:53 |
| schestowitz | Small, ARM, cheap, Linux | May 31 09:53 |
| schestowitz | A while new breed of devices... | May 31 09:53 |
| schestowitz | Federal Motors is dead... and the US public is paying for it. http://www.reuters.com/article/bigMoney/idUS241973276820090529 | May 31 09:55 |
| schestowitz | Here's Why Microsoft Needs to Make Us Doubt Google < http://seekingalpha.com/article/139733-here-s-why-microsoft-needs-to-make-us-doubt-google?source=yahoo > | May 31 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Typical anti-Google tactic | May 31 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Say Google is broken | May 31 09:56 |
| schestowitz | They offer remedy | May 31 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Say it's "unqiue" | May 31 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Or "done right" | May 31 09:57 |
| schestowitz | Think Cuil | May 31 09:57 |
| schestowitz | Wolfram | May 31 09:57 |
| schestowitz | B*ng | May 31 09:57 |
| schestowitz | Wikia | May 31 09:57 |
| oiaohm | http://www.nongnu.org/qemu/status.html You can still run wine on that arm. | May 31 09:59 |
| oiaohm | Just wraped in qemu. just not fast. | May 31 10:00 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12558-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=65008&messageID=1212615 | May 31 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Worth adding to BN in a moment | May 31 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Yeah? | May 31 10:01 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c006cc50-4bd7-11de-b827-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fc006cc50-4bd7-11de-b827-00144feabdc0.html%3Freferrer_id%3Dyahoofinance%26ft_ref%3Dyahoo1%26segid%3D03058&ft_ref=yahoo1&segid=03058&referrer_id=yahoofinance&_i_referer= | May 31 10:04 |
| schestowitz | Richard Waters is shilling for Microsoft. Again. | May 31 10:04 |
| oiaohm | qemu is what the mac os guys use to run wine on ppc. | May 31 10:04 |
| schestowitz | I doubt it | May 31 10:05 |
| schestowitz | They use all sort of expensive things | May 31 10:05 |
| oiaohm | Wine is already kinda cross platform. | May 31 10:05 |
| schestowitz | proprietary too | May 31 10:05 |
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| schestowitz | They love spending... many of them do | May 31 10:05 |
| schestowitz | Gavin Clarke shilling for Microsoft. Again. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/29/silverlight_3_beta_july/ | May 31 10:05 |
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| schestowitz | I'm very disappointed with The Register after it got ruined by Microsoft | May 31 10:06 |
| oiaohm | I forgot the dell way MS numbers are super rubber. | May 31 10:06 |
| oiaohm | We don't have clear enough documentation from dell to back that comment up. | May 31 10:07 |
| oiaohm | But its true with dell you cannot buy a OS less machine. | May 31 10:07 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | May 31 10:08 |
| schestowitz | Forbes edit headline: "Microsoft Heat Ups Security" | May 31 10:08 |
| schestowitz | They fixed it | May 31 10:08 |
| schestowitz | How hard can it be to just pick a headline for someone's article? | May 31 10:08 |
| schestowitz | They botched and later fixed it | May 31 10:09 |
| oiaohm | Could be worse. | May 31 10:09 |
| oiaohm | Trying to remember what one managed to put out Microsoft burns secuirty. around the time nx feature got added. | May 31 10:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Loses NZ Government Windows Deal http://news.digitaltrends.com/news-article/20034/microsoft-loses-nz-government-windows-deal | May 31 10:18 |
| schestowitz | New Zealand cancels Microsoft talks http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,1000000308,39656668,00.htm | May 31 10:18 |
| schestowitz | More Microsoft layoffs, but Microsoft keeps the details secret. http://www.thechannel.co.nz/20090527918/microsoft-rumours-confirmed.php | May 31 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Philippines head quits < http://technology.inquirer.net/infotech/infotech/view/20090529-207753/Microsoft-Philippines-head-quits > | May 31 10:21 |
| schestowitz | Eric Lai (another shill) does damage control for Microsoft in IDG: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=security&articleId=9133651&taxonomyId=17&intsrc=kc_top | May 31 10:21 |
| oiaohm | LOL more layoffs one they say they have a robust product line. | May 31 10:24 |
| oiaohm | What god darn product line are they looking at. | May 31 10:25 |
| oiaohm | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=Security&articleId=9133651&taxonomyId=17&pageNumber=2 Secound page is a interesting legal read. | May 31 10:27 |
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| oiaohm | So wave is legal and microsoft message is not. | May 31 10:27 |
| oiaohm | How wrong is that. | May 31 10:27 |
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| schestowitz | Associated Press is sucking up to the tax-evading pipeline again: New CEO: Gates Foundation learns from experiments < http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009269871_apwagatesfoundationraikes.html > | May 31 10:32 |
| schestowitz | Why is the media so afraid to write critically about what's publicly known about motives? | May 31 10:32 |
| oiaohm | You have seen what MS does to bad press. | May 31 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Rob Enderle (Microsoft shill): Palm: Dead company walking? | May 31 10:35 |
| schestowitz | he's attacking Microsoft rivals again | May 31 10:35 |
| schestowitz | He uses the press while being paid by Microsoft again. | May 31 10:35 |
| schestowitz | This guy is disgusting | May 31 10:35 |
| oiaohm | Palm could be a dead company walking. | May 31 10:37 |
| oiaohm | Palm vs Android could be a very savage battle. | May 31 10:37 |
| ushimitsudoki | Enderle had a big hit piece on Google a few days back | May 31 10:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | It was on a linux site too of all things | May 31 10:39 |
| ushimitsudoki | Ah here it is, if your stomach can handle it: http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/security/67151.html | May 31 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | What's with the NYT just buying so many IDG articles now? Microsoft MultiPoint livens Thai math class < http://www.nytimes.com/external/idg/2009/05/27/27idg-microsoft-multipoint-livens-thai-math-class-40448.html >. Coloniasation | May 31 10:45 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: ah! I saw that | May 31 10:46 |
| schestowitz | What a troll that guy is | May 31 10:46 |
| schestowitz | Tech sector has questions, few answers http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/28/technology/thingsd_0528.fortune/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote | May 31 10:47 |
| schestowitz | People really, really don't want Vista. http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Oceanside-Man-Charged-with-Selling-Bootleg/aNUoEWNe1USKLZEnbw2D3Q.cspx | May 31 10:48 |
| ushimitsudoki | I didn't know the NYT had barred him from being quoted! That he is still working is a testament to both his lack of shame and the general laziness and incompetency of many media outlets | May 31 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Forbes still quotes that shill | May 31 10:48 |
| schestowitz | They need to be shown more evidence | May 31 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Like the memos we have of him and Waggener Edstrom... and relations with Ballmer | May 31 10:48 |
| ushimitsudoki | Yeah, but Forbes is very pro-big business and therefore very pro-Microsoft. Doubtful any MS (or other corporate) shill will get much static from Forbes. | May 31 10:49 |
| schestowitz | I mailed that anti-Palm article to PJ | May 31 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Enderle ran smear campaigns against her | May 31 10:49 |
| ushimitsudoki | Tech related media outlets should do a little better I hope | May 31 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Time Warner to spin off AOL, ending ill-fated deal < http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Time-Warner-to-spin-off-AOL-apf-15376892.html?.v=18 > | May 31 10:51 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: watch out for the usual suspects if you see them | May 31 10:51 |
| schestowitz | Like Enderle, Zuck, W-E and other Microsoft lobbyists | May 31 10:51 |
| schestowitz | They manage to deceive the public | May 31 10:51 |
| schestowitz | I have people mailing me asking for information to be up there profiling them | May 31 10:51 |
| schestowitz | It's hard to block someone from a panel/publication without presenting evidence that these are, indeed, shills | May 31 10:52 |
| schestowitz | I think that another Zuck (maybe Jon's brother or something) got embargoed | May 31 10:52 |
| schestowitz | So I've heard anyway | May 31 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Funny enough if I was google I would have paid Enderle to say that just after kicking MS in the nuts on there launch. | May 31 10:52 |
| oiaohm | So IBM and other big guys fell better. | May 31 10:53 |
| ushimitsudoki | I would be very surprised to see a wide embargo of shills. Maureen O'Gara is still getting work after all | May 31 10:53 |
| ushimitsudoki | If she can keep working, any one can | May 31 10:53 |
| oiaohm | Shills need money. | May 31 10:54 |
| oiaohm | When there pay checks dry up so will they. | May 31 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Check this out: http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009053139529 | May 31 10:56 |
| ushimitsudoki | There is some story out about Microsoft changing up the terms of the credit they have been extending to vendors to require a larger portion of them spent on MS products. I'm not surprised to see Microsoft moving further into the finance end. Control the purse strings, control everything. | May 31 10:58 |
| schestowitz | Kevin McLaughlin and Darryl K. Taft are again boosting Microsoft | May 31 10:59 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: I think they have no choice | May 31 11:00 |
| ushimitsudoki | Oh, and as far as Forbes - this is how they reported on Maureen O'Gara publishing PJ's info: "In February an intrepid reporter, Maureen O'Gara, decided to uncloak the mystery..." | May 31 11:02 |
| schestowitz | TAP Airbus pictured booting Linux 2.4 < http://zefonseca.com/blogs/zen/tap-airbus-pictured-running-linux-24/ > | May 31 11:02 |
| ushimitsudoki | Get that, an *intrepid reporter* | May 31 11:02 |
| schestowitz | I think I saw that | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | Wasn't Dan covering this? | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | I can't remember when I saw it | May 31 11:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | As I said, Forbes is *very* pro-big business. *very* | May 31 11:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/1114/128sidebara.html | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | May 31 11:03 |
| ushimitsudoki | They make out PJ supporters to basically be blackmailers | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | "Daniel Lyons" | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | Well, duh :-) | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | teamwork | May 31 11:03 |
| schestowitz | Enderle cites Lyons cites O'Gara, gets instructions from W-E, etc. | May 31 11:04 |
| oiaohm | http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20/2009/05/30/new-hdmi-14-spec-could-lead-to-consumer-confusion/ << anyone else wondering were we are heading. | May 31 11:04 |
| ushimitsudoki | Yup, check out the "Fighting Back" sidebar too: "If you get attacked, dig up dirt on your assailant and feed it to sympathetic bloggers. Discredit him. " | May 31 11:04 |
| schestowitz | have they set up a sco-attack mailing list yet? | May 31 11:04 |
| ushimitsudoki | That's some Scientology shit right there | May 31 11:04 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 31 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft was compared to Scientology | May 31 11:05 |
| schestowitz | By a government delegate no less... | May 31 11:05 |
| ushimitsudoki | Didn't BN have some credibility index or something? | May 31 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: yes | May 31 11:05 |
| schestowitz | It's no popular with those listed | May 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Except those who are ranked well | May 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Some people were angry for not being listed :-) | May 31 11:06 |
| ushimitsudoki | Has it made it over to the wiki yet? | May 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | But it needs a lot more work | May 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Drones_list | May 31 11:07 |
| schestowitz | I have hundreds more that need to be added | May 31 11:07 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes I toggle articles only because I want to see author names | May 31 11:07 |
| ushimitsudoki | BN too slow for me right now :( | May 31 11:07 |
| schestowitz | After 3 years of reading news like this I can tell a lot from headline+author | May 31 11:07 |
| schestowitz | They sometimes obfuscate | May 31 11:08 |
| schestowitz | Like Gralla did | May 31 11:08 |
| schestowitz | When he 'tried' Linux and a Mac | May 31 11:08 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the ones who have tried Linux are going back now. | May 31 11:08 |
| oiaohm | We are starting to see the rats leaving the ship. | May 31 11:08 |
| schestowitz | Report: Iran defuses bomb on domestic flight http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/31/report-iran-defuses-bomb-on-domestic-flight/ | May 31 11:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Like the ASUS thing | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | It means someone's nervous | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Shades of "get the facts" | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Remember when it launched | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | After JimAll[chin] said Microsoft was ona pth to losing | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Then he talked about "IP" | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | he mentioned SCO too | May 31 11:09 |
| schestowitz | And SCO then sued Linux (vendorS) | May 31 11:10 |
| schestowitz | It's like the mafia | May 31 11:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I should do lots of MS posts today. It ought to be fun. | May 31 11:10 |
| oiaohm | hdmi 1.4 is interesting. | May 31 11:11 |
| schestowitz | I know some people like twitter enjoy Microsoft news in BN | May 31 11:12 |
| oiaohm | 3d over hdmi what are the going to do move a large block of the video card into the screen. | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | Did you see E3 coverage? | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft got nothing[sic] | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | Nintendo at around 50mil Wiis now | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | MS... still selling at a LOSS | May 31 11:12 |
| oiaohm | All I know is the war is going to get hotter. | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | And XBox 360 operates at a LOSS | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | Chiefs leave | May 31 11:12 |
| schestowitz | Does 360 (not Elite) have HDMI? | May 31 11:13 |
| oiaohm | I hope the smartbooks leave the 10 inch size behind and go larger. | May 31 11:13 |
| oiaohm | I want a laptop with a 8 hour + battery life. | May 31 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Software restriction will not worry me. | May 31 11:14 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I thought of batter life too | May 31 11:16 |
| schestowitz | These things are another calss | May 31 11:16 |
| schestowitz | Are they fanless? | May 31 11:16 |
| oiaohm | Yep | May 31 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Do you find a fan in a phone schestowitz | May 31 11:17 |
| oiaohm | They are just upscaled phones. | May 31 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Even bigger heat sinks then they have in a phone. | May 31 11:17 |
| oiaohm | 200+ hours of stand by should be possiable two.. | May 31 11:25 |
| oiaohm | So charge once per day. | May 31 11:26 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc0748.txt Ok little way off topic. Sometimes standards are funny and this one is out there. | May 31 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | fan in a phone? | May 31 11:46 |
| schestowitz | maybe zune phonev:-) | May 31 11:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Good Morning All! | May 31 11:48 |
| _Hicham_ | fat schestowitz | May 31 11:48 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is having a big stomach | May 31 11:48 |
| _Hicham_ | because he eats a lot | May 31 11:48 |
| _Hicham_ | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/schestowitz-big-eater/ | May 31 11:49 |
| schestowitz | haha | May 31 11:53 |
| schestowitz | How did you know? | May 31 11:54 |
| schestowitz | It's still a "Draft"? | May 31 11:54 |
| _Hicham_ | a morning joke | May 31 11:56 |
| oiaohm | You have see the new smartbook things _Hicham_ | May 31 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | tacone: did you see http://robertogaloppini.net/2009/05/27/european-elections-italians-do-it-but-just-in-italy/ ? | May 31 12:00 |
| _Hicham_ | no oiaohm, where is that? | May 31 12:05 |
| tacone | schestowitz: i heard about the initiative | May 31 12:08 |
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| tacone | i didn't thought any deputy would sign it | May 31 12:08 |
| tacone | and don't know how many will do what they promised to do | May 31 12:08 |
| oiaohm | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10251841-64.html << schestowitz posted it when you where not hear _Hicham_ | May 31 12:20 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: coming in one hour. Daily links | May 31 12:22 |
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| mtnd3w | The elusive, royalty-free patent licence for Mono: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25215/1090/1/0/ | May 31 12:40 |
| mtnd3w | Nice article on Mono, Miguekk de Icaza, and Jo Shields ... | May 31 12:40 |
| mtnd3w | Miguel * | May 31 12:41 |
| tacone | i didn't noticed it was recent | May 31 12:45 |
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| tacone | oh, it went on linuxtoday also | May 31 13:04 |
| tacone | err... reddit. | May 31 13:04 |
| Eruaran | Wasn't it Sam Vargese who also contacted Net Applications to try to find out how they arrived at their 1% market share figure for Linux and basically got stonewalled ? | May 31 13:07 |
| Eruaran | If so, he's basically the only journalist who is actually doing the work of a real journalist that I can think of | May 31 13:08 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt6W7eJ_E0A | May 31 13:10 | |
| oiaohm | Lot of journalists have lost there trade. | May 31 13:10 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: yes, that's him | May 31 13:10 |
| Eruaran | ah k thanks schestowitz | May 31 13:11 |
| Eruaran | His credibility just went up in my mind | May 31 13:11 |
| schestowitz | That smear comes from a former Microsoft employee | May 31 13:11 |
| schestowitz | NetApps=Microsoft (partly) | May 31 13:11 |
| schestowitz | From 3% for Linux as consensus in 2003 | May 31 13:12 |
| schestowitz | We're on ('up') to .5% in 2008 because IDG boosted NetApps lies | May 31 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Most web generated numbers are crap. | May 31 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Unique ip ok how many machines sit behind each ip. | May 31 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Cookies not dependable because not all clients will take them. | May 31 13:14 |
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| tacone | www.bing.com | May 31 13:23 |
| tacone | new ms search engine | May 31 13:23 |
| tacone | weird that MS put a flash video to showcase it. Wasn't silverlight so widespread ? | May 31 13:23 |
| oiaohm | So is bing working now. | May 31 13:24 |
| oiaohm | It was DOA a while ago. | May 31 13:24 |
| mtnd3w | bing looks cuil | May 31 13:28 |
| mtnd3w | think it will be a google killer too? | May 31 13:28 |
| Eruaran | I rofl'ed at people raving about 'Bing' as nobody has seen anything but a promotional video. | May 31 13:28 |
| Omar87 | I don't think it will be a Google killer. | May 31 13:29 |
| Eruaran | And search results don't work like Google, they are controlled by Microsoft. Basically Microsoft can promote in their search results who they want and this is how they are promoting it as well, with lots of gloss though. | May 31 13:29 |
| oiaohm | I think bing is going to be come road kill to the next wave. | May 31 13:29 |
| Eruaran | One people realise their search results are defined by what Microsoft says the best results are, and that those results are basically going to be sorted according to who gives Microsoft lots of money, people will not use bing. | May 31 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Wave is a lot larger change than most people noticed. It will take advantage of firefox 3.5 offline mode. | May 31 13:31 |
| Eruaran | its not a 'search engine' or a 'decision engine', its an advertising revenue engine. | May 31 13:31 |
| mtnd3w | Omar87: i was being sarcastic. | May 31 13:32 |
| mtnd3w | cuil was a search engine, that apparently is suppose to be killing google | May 31 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Yep bing is still showing coming soon. | May 31 13:37 |
| oiaohm | At least cuil site was working on there release day. | May 31 13:39 |
| schestowitz | mtnd3w: it'll come back !! Cuil shalt rule thy world | May 31 13:39 |
| schestowitz | And Wolfram too | May 31 13:39 |
| tacone | could this http://www.stefanoforenza.com/its-better-with-windows/ and Bing be related ? | May 31 13:39 |
| schestowitz | And Wikia. Oh, wait... that's dead already | May 31 13:39 |
| schestowitz | new title, tacone | May 31 13:40 |
| Eruaran | I'm trying out cuil right now | May 31 13:40 |
| Eruaran | I don't like Wolfram | May 31 13:41 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: What? Wikia is dead? | May 31 13:41 |
| Eruaran | The Wolfram license is ridiculous... | May 31 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: yeah. | May 31 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Wikipedia is here to reign though | May 31 13:42 |
| tacone | schestowitz: new title ? | May 31 13:42 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Yeah, absolutely. | May 31 13:42 |
| tacone | schestowitz: wikia search engine is dead | May 31 13:42 |
| tacone | schestowitz: which title ? | May 31 13:43 |
| Eruaran | If Wolfram|Alpha tells you 2+2 is 4, four, and **** | May 31 13:44 |
| Eruaran | they claim ownership of the results | May 31 13:44 |
| Eruaran | You'd have to be one of the biggest asshats in history to try to pull this stuff off | May 31 13:45 |
| Eruaran | lets say you're writing a paper | May 31 13:45 |
| Eruaran | and you use Wolfram|Alpha, you have to provide attribution and like a copyright ownership blurb and crap | May 31 13:45 |
| tacone | offlining | May 31 13:47 |
| tacone | bye | May 31 13:47 |
| schestowitz | tacone: post title | May 31 13:47 |
| schestowitz | You're diluting their anti-Linux message | May 31 13:47 |
| Omar87 | Dude! Wolfram sucks as hell! Their website is as heavy as a mountain..! -_- | May 31 13:47 |
| schestowitz | People do this already with "get the facts" | May 31 13:47 |
| schestowitz | There's a site called "gotthefacts" | May 31 13:47 |
| schestowitz | It hold Comes documents | May 31 13:47 |
| Eruaran | public documents ? | May 31 13:47 |
| Omar87 | I personally believe it's still no match for Google. | May 31 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: yes, we have those two | May 31 13:48 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: next month we'll drop bombshells on MS | May 31 13:48 |
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| schestowitz | I need to find ways to make more time | May 31 13:48 |
| Eruaran | they're not claiming ownership of public documents are they ? | May 31 13:48 |
| schestowitz | Summers are quieter, so... | May 31 13:48 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: no, Wolfram | May 31 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Time to go after MS strong holds. | May 31 13:49 |
| Eruaran | k | May 31 13:49 |
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| schestowitz | It's one of those search flings | May 31 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Business is war. | May 31 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Some company says: "Yo! We got search!" | May 31 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Then the press turns to them | May 31 13:49 |
| schestowitz | "Will you be GoogleKiller?" | May 31 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, yeah, we will | May 31 13:49 |
| schestowitz | And then come the headlines. | May 31 13:49 |
| schestowitz | B*ing|Cuil|Wolfram - will it kill Google? | May 31 13:50 |
| oiaohm | cuil might in time get market or might in time vaporise. | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Obligatory question mark | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Watch the hits roll in | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Then, after 24 hours few people remember it | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | One week later nobody uses it | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Some time later the site is abandoned | May 31 13:50 |
| oiaohm | The problem is google is not a target that standing still. | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Then the SE becomes history | May 31 13:50 |
| ushimitsudoki | night folks getting late here and I like to drop a bing before I go to bed | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Bing is still in phase 2 | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Few people use it now | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they can prolong the blitz | May 31 13:50 |
| schestowitz | With $100m | May 31 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Marketing treash 24/7 | May 31 13:51 |
| oiaohm | We will see more web applications from google that don't need a internet connection to keep working. | May 31 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. Try it, try, it. | May 31 13:51 |
| oiaohm | MS has started a war. | May 31 13:51 |
| schestowitz | For survival maybe | May 31 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Only 1 problem google is not the one that is going to lose. | May 31 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Web apps that run without internet is something MS has feared. | May 31 13:52 |
| oiaohm | They are now coming into existance. | May 31 13:52 |
| oiaohm | google docs vs ms office will be funny. | May 31 13:53 |
| Eruaran | I'm using Cuil right now | May 31 14:04 |
| Eruaran | Only becuase you guys mentioned it earlier | May 31 14:04 |
| Eruaran | :P | May 31 14:04 |
| Eruaran | Its still alive ! | May 31 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Indexing the internet is 1 hell of a battle. | May 31 14:06 |
| Eruaran | Jack Bauer wins the day again | May 31 14:12 |
| Eruaran | Maybe we should start up a search engine and call it something like, chucknorris | May 31 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Head of Microsoft Philippines Ditches the Company, More Layoffs Revealed (But Microsoft Withholds Details) < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/more-msft-nz-layoffs-revealed/ > | May 31 14:21 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: without sharing you can't have many SEs | May 31 14:22 |
| schestowitz | They thrash servers | May 31 14:22 |
| Eruaran | yes I know | May 31 14:22 |
| schestowitz | BN serves over 30GB/month to search engines | May 31 14:23 |
| Eruaran | Its not a serious proposal :P | May 31 14:23 |
| schestowitz | And it's all dynamic pages | May 31 14:23 |
| oiaohm | That is a lot of indexing. | May 31 14:24 |
| oiaohm | I guess there are not sections you can block from being indexed schestowitz. | May 31 14:25 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, it just repeats the same thing | May 31 14:34 |
| schestowitz | We used to have Sitemap.XML | May 31 14:35 |
| schestowitz | But the old host blocked it cause it rebuilds the file upon each little update | May 31 14:35 |
| schestowitz | It scales poorly | May 31 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the plugin improved | May 31 14:35 |
| schestowitz | Watch how the music labels now put their song on YouTube for free promotion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ6sp3X_LVk | May 31 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Later they cry that YouTube is 'stealing' their work | May 31 14:36 |
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| Eruaran | 'their' work ? | May 31 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Yeah :-) | May 31 14:47 |
| schestowitz | MAFIAA | May 31 14:47 |
| schestowitz | Not the singers | May 31 14:47 |
| schestowitz | The singer don't own their song, remember? | May 31 14:48 |
| schestowitz | It's assigned to some phat bastards who count cash and pay BSA | May 31 14:48 |
| Eruaran | That's why many of us wont sign with a label | May 31 14:51 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s “Us” Versus “Them” Mentality Already Backfires? < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/ms-mentality-already-backfires/ > | May 31 14:53 |
| oiaohm | secound wave of netbooks is starting ahead of the time table I expected. | May 31 15:05 |
| oiaohm | We might see the first 100 dollar compuer soon. | May 31 15:06 |
| schestowitz | July | May 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | ARM blitz | May 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Lots in some Asian expo | May 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | The dinos are gone | May 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | CompUSA, Circuit City etc. | May 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Sold people who they didn't want (Vista) | May 31 15:09 |
| schestowitz | And went out of business with stock they can't sell | May 31 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Now ARM... | May 31 15:10 |
| schestowitz | That's a sell | May 31 15:10 |
| schestowitz | $170 subnotebooks that last 10 hours | May 31 15:10 |
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| oiaohm | I know what I need is something arounda 12 inch screen so it has a decent sized keyboard. | May 31 15:14 |
| oiaohm | hopefully they don't stop at the 10 inch limit. | May 31 15:14 |
| tacone | 10'' netbook have pretty decent keybs | May 31 15:16 |
| oiaohm | I touch type. | May 31 15:23 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft SQL Server and DirectX Enable Full Machine Compromise < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/ms-sql-server-directx-holes/ > | May 31 15:23 |
| oiaohm | Few mirrorly smaller keyboard makes doing that harder tacone. | May 31 15:24 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | May 31 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, _Hicham_ | May 31 15:49 |
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| the_mad_hatter | Hi Roy | May 31 15:52 |
| schestowitz | Hey | May 31 15:53 |
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| the_mad_hatter | This conference Board of Canada thing is getting hot. | May 31 15:53 |
| schestowitz | Plagiarised | May 31 15:53 |
| schestowitz | Not the first example as such | May 31 15:53 |
| schestowitz | Here is a quick list | May 31 15:53 |
| schestowitz | UK government -- copyright infringer | May 31 15:54 |
| the_mad_hatter | Yep. It appears that the same thing may have happened in England. | May 31 15:54 |
| schestowitz | McCain campaign too (pro-IP cabinet) | May 31 15:54 |
| schestowitz | Sarko got caught and fine. Same allegations | May 31 15:54 |
| the_mad_hatter | And it calls into question HADOPI | May 31 15:54 |
| schestowitz | In TPB case, the MAFIAA admitted downloading stuff illegally | May 31 15:54 |
| schestowitz | So basically, they accuse everyone by themselves | May 31 15:54 |
| the_mad_hatter | And every report ever issued by the Conference Board is now on the table. | May 31 15:54 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | It's not my area | May 31 15:55 |
| the_mad_hatter | Michael Geist is still looking at things. | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | But I put it in faily links | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw might be closer to it | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | And Geist | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | The P2P sites as well.. | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | And EU activists | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | Maybe ORG | May 31 15:55 |
| schestowitz | Open Rights Group | May 31 15:55 |
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| the_mad_hatter | I think that it's related. | May 31 15:56 |
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| the_mad_hatter | corporate corruption | May 31 15:56 |
| Eruaran | F*&(^*&@#$^(#*&$ | May 31 15:57 |
| Eruaran | Plasma started crashing badly | May 31 15:57 |
| Eruaran | backtrace failed | May 31 15:57 |
| Eruaran | saw mention of stasks though... So I'm not running stasks anymore | May 31 15:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | stasks? | May 31 15:58 |
| Eruaran | its a widget | May 31 15:58 |
| Eruaran | replacement for kde's normal task manager widget | May 31 15:59 |
| Eruaran | I wasn't really using its features so it doesn't matter anyway | May 31 15:59 |
| Eruaran | The novelty has worn off | May 31 15:59 |
| the_mad_hatter | Don't use KDE. | May 31 16:00 |
| Eruaran | Why ? | May 31 16:00 |
| Eruaran | All desktops have their own issues | May 31 16:00 |
| the_mad_hatter | Enlightenment is my favourite. | May 31 16:01 |
| Eruaran | KDE seems fine now that sTasks isn't running... sTasks is still kind of Alpha you know | May 31 16:01 |
| the_mad_hatter | Alpha can be fun sometimes. Anyway, I gotta run, things are getting exciting here. | May 31 16:02 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah, stacks is new | May 31 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Run at own risk | May 31 16:13 |
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| Eruaran | stasks give you more features and flexibility than the normal task manager, but I had stopped using them and it pretty much looked the same | May 31 16:20 |
| tacone | http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/31/olidata-conte-ultraportable-finally-shows-itself-looks-mighty-g/ | May 31 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Which OS? | May 31 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Saddles with X00P? | May 31 16:27 |
| schestowitz | *led | May 31 16:27 |
| tacone | windows | May 31 16:29 |
| tacone | vista | May 31 16:29 |
| tacone | windows vista something. | May 31 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Yuck | May 31 16:40 |
| schestowitz | So they make it less desirable then netbooks | May 31 16:40 |
| tacone | but more desiderable than macbook air | May 31 16:41 |
| schestowitz | For a moment I read that as "madoff air" | May 31 16:43 |
| Eruaran | oh I have kde 4.2.4 updates | May 31 16:45 |
| Eruaran | wowsers | May 31 16:45 |
| Eruaran | didn't even know about that | May 31 16:45 |
| Eruaran | strange... no mention on kde.org | May 31 16:47 |
| schestowitz | bbl | May 31 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | WTF. http://www30.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=schestowitz | May 31 17:02 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s Numbers a Lot Worse Than IDC Tells < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/idc-server-survey-lies/ > | May 31 17:02 |
| Eruaran | lol @ Wolfram|Alpha | May 31 17:08 |
| Eruaran | oops | May 31 17:09 |
| Eruaran | worked it out | May 31 17:09 |
| Eruaran | I added the kubuntu playground repository to get an updated Amarok | May 31 17:09 |
| Eruaran | now I'm getting KDE 4.2.4 updates | May 31 17:10 |
| Eruaran | :/ | May 31 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's in Alpha | May 31 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Wolfram | May 31 17:10 |
| Eruaran | heh | May 31 17:10 |
| schestowitz | back in 2 | May 31 17:21 |
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| schestowitz | I'll make some more posts :-) | May 31 19:19 |
| Eruaran | BN is really slow coming up in my browser atm | May 31 19:29 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("My computer is going down") | May 31 19:31 | |
| Eruaran | hmm | May 31 19:32 |
| Eruaran | connection to server refused | May 31 19:32 |
| Eruaran | working now... | May 31 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Yahoo! and Microsoft Still Search for a Future! < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/yahoo-and-microsoft-aimless/ > | May 31 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Hmnn... I heard there are some issues. Maybe the firewall causes this | May 31 19:37 |
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| Eruaran | I think if Microsoft gets yahoo then the end result will be Google getting bigger market share | May 31 19:39 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft gutting Yahoo wont have a positive impact | May 31 19:39 |
| Google is already getting a bigger marketshare | May 31 19:40 | |
| Eruaran | Yahoo is better off staying away from Microsoft | May 31 19:40 |
| of course | May 31 19:40 | |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: the server run as though it assumes you're part of a botnet | May 31 19:40 |
| schestowitz | There;s no choice as long as the attacks continue | May 31 19:40 |
| Eruaran | ok | May 31 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Better slow than downtime | May 31 19:41 |
| M$ has already damaged Yahoo. How would you feel about your job if you worked at Yahoo? | May 31 19:41 | |
| Eruaran | I'd be looking for another job | May 31 19:41 |
| I would not, but I'm stubborn like that. | May 31 19:42 | |
| still, you see the damage | May 31 19:42 | |
| Eruaran | yes | May 31 19:42 |
| Equal damage is done to M$. Who would want to work for such an evil company? | May 31 19:43 | |
| Eruaran | schestowitz: I got on BN quicker with Konq than I did with FF | May 31 19:43 |
| interesting | May 31 19:43 | |
| Konq has always worked faster for me. | May 31 19:43 | |
| Eruaran | FF has adblock on :P | May 31 19:44 |
| on all but silly sites that use a lot of FF or IE targeted javascript. | May 31 19:44 | |
| Konq has it's own forms of adblock | May 31 19:44 | |
| Eruaran | yes | May 31 19:44 |
| Eruaran | Konq has adblock filters on | May 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | VistaBeta7 to Self Destruct < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/spontaneous-reboots-vista-7/ >. Boy, I'm SOOO afraid of Vista 7. | May 31 19:47 |
| schestowitz | twitter: about Yahoo!, people will call you insensitive (clot) if you say something about MS layoffs | May 31 19:47 |
| schestowitz | It's OK for Microsoft to destroy companies. | May 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | But W-E won't allow people to think MS layoffs are a GoodThing{Tm} | May 31 19:48 |
| Ignorant people confuse M$ interest with national interests, they play on that while discarding the fact that Google, Yahhoo, Netscape, SSI and others are or were also US companies. | May 31 19:49 | |
| People who use free software and believe in sharing are Communists who should be fined and jailed, according to hecklers. | May 31 19:50 | |
| I suppose that taint rubs off on anyone who is not M$. | May 31 19:51 | |
| Yahoo? do they use Windows in that country? | May 31 19:51 | |
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| schestowitz | Which one? | May 31 20:03 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I'll link to you | May 31 20:03 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us/01tiller.html?ref=global-home | May 31 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | Doctor Who Performed Abortions Is Shot to Death | May 31 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | that's how Christians operate I guess | May 31 20:06 |
| tacone | to me ? | May 31 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | they just murder people they disagree with | May 31 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | then their preacher disavows all responsibility | May 31 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | no different than Taliban terrorists | May 31 20:07 |
| MinceR | how are you gentlemen !! | May 31 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Accused of “Sabotaging Firefox” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/microsoft-changes-firefox-software/ > | May 31 20:10 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I thought you meant "Doctor Who " | May 31 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the Palin grilling about abortions? | May 31 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | anything where Palin was on TV was torture | May 31 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | so no, I didn't watch most of it | May 31 20:11 |
| schestowitz | "Dr. Tiller, who had performed abortions since the 1970s, had long been a lightning rod for controversy over the issue of abortion, particularly in Kansas, where abortion opponents regularly protested outside his clinic and sometimes his home and church. In 1993, he was shot in both arms by an abortion opponent but recovered." | May 31 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Why was he in a church in the first place? | May 31 20:12 |
| tacone | ok, nice | May 31 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Imagine Putin vs Palin. LOL | May 31 20:12 |
| tacone | schestowitz: are you sure eula does allow that ?? | May 31 20:13 |
| tacone | which right do they have to mess with 3rd party ? | May 31 20:13 |
| tacone | oh look, firefox is so slow to load today, I wonder why.. | May 31 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't seem to affect performance either way | May 31 20:14 |
| tacone | mozilla people should reply by creating a button in firefox preferences that completely removes ie8 | May 31 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | but I still didn't ask for it | May 31 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | so I got rid of it | May 31 20:14 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: yes, that was an hyperbole. | May 31 20:14 |
| tacone | schestowitz: next time they'll install silverlight codecs | May 31 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | "Just following suit with Apple iTunes quietly installing Outlook add-ins that can’t be removed or disabled even if I all have is a lowly iPod Nano." | May 31 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | May 31 20:16 |
| tacone | itunes get's your windows slower, immediatly. | May 31 20:18 |
| tacone | install it on a clean windows virtual machine | May 31 20:18 |
| BN is slow. | May 31 20:18 | |
| tacone | next reboot everything will jerk. | May 31 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | iTunes is the worst program for Windows, ever | May 31 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | it's the new Realplayer, only worse | May 31 20:18 |
| tacone | the worst program for windows ever is win.exe | May 31 20:18 |
| tacone | :P | May 31 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | RealPlayer was popular software, so they got greedy and abused their users | May 31 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | installed unrelated software and turned it into adware | May 31 20:19 |
| tacone | oh, but I love it requires QuickTime. My favourite codec/mediaplayer/whatever ever | May 31 20:19 |
| tacone | RealPlayer had the end it deserved | May 31 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | iTunes takes it further by installing system services without asking | May 31 20:19 |
| tacone | yeah, itunes helper and so on. | May 31 20:20 |
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| DaemonFC | and Bonjour | May 31 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | and Safari | May 31 20:22 |
| iTunes messing M$ stuff, M$ using .NET to screw Firefox, sabotage, sabotage - non free software is like that in general and Windows is like that in particular | May 31 20:22 | |
| DaemonFC | and Quicktime | May 31 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | and.... | May 31 20:22 |
| dump Windows for free software. | May 31 20:22 | |
| DaemonFC | about a million other piece of shit packages | May 31 20:22 |
| :) | May 31 20:22 | |
| DaemonFC | there's always been a plugin for Windows Media Player installed into Mozilla | May 31 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | nobody complained about that | May 31 20:23 |
| people who use Windows put up with a lot, FC. | May 31 20:23 | |
| schestowitz | tacone: I think the WIndows EULA allows almost everything | May 31 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Even false posiitves (Microsoft shuts down your PC) | May 31 20:24 |
| tacone | guess it even allows ballmer to rob your children | May 31 20:24 |
| schestowitz | It's part of their deal when you click OK or buy a PC with Win32 | May 31 20:24 |
| tacone | schestowitz: what's the official stance of mozilla on this ? | May 31 20:24 |
| tacone | should you want to play the serious journalist you might want to contact them ? | May 31 20:25 |
| the operative words in the Vista EULA is a flimsy terrorist prevention clause that gives them the ability to do anything if it's in the best interest of M$ or M$ employees | May 31 20:25 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: how long does it take to load BN? | May 31 20:25 |
| schestowitz | It's fast on my side | May 31 20:25 |
| still waiting | May 31 20:26 | |
| schestowitz | There's no heavy load | May 31 20:26 |
| even google is slow, so it's probably a local issue or a specific attack | May 31 20:26 | |
| schestowitz | Other people reported the same issue | May 31 20:26 |
| tacone | blog is fast | May 31 20:27 |
| tacone | the wiki doesn't load. | May 31 20:27 |
| I have not looked at the logs to see if my IP address shows up when I join BN | May 31 20:27 | |
| tacone | it's stuck on 'connecting' | May 31 20:27 |
| could be some kind of world wide Windows shit storm | May 31 20:27 | |
| schestowitz | It loads OK for me | May 31 20:27 |
| MinceR | http://punditkitchen.com/2009/05/31/political-pictures-outsourcing-fail/ | May 31 20:27 |
| how about google? | May 31 20:27 | |
| schestowitz | brb | May 31 20:28 |
| tacone | let me try from my server | May 31 20:28 |
| basically up now | May 31 20:28 | |
| I took my eye off it, but it took at least a minute. | May 31 20:28 | |
| DaemonFC | http://pastebin.com/f529eef2f | May 31 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | Vista SP2 EULA | May 31 20:29 |
| tacone | now it's up | May 31 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | b.License Model. The software is licensed on a per copy per device basis. | May 31 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | a.Licensed Device. You may install one copy of the software on the licensed device. You may use the software on up to two processors on that device at one time. Except as provided in the Storage and Network Use (Ultimate edition) sections below, you may not use the software on any other device. | May 31 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | b.Number of Users. Except as provided in the Device Connections (all editions), Remote Access Technologies (Home Basic and Home Premium editions) and Other Access Technologies (Ultimate edition) sections below, only one user may use the software at a time. | May 31 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | c.Alternative Versions. The software may include more than one version, such as 32-bit and 64-bit. You may use only one version at one time. | May 31 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | Use with Virtualization Technologies. Instead of using the software directly on the licensed device, you may install and use the software within only one virtual (or otherwise emulated) hardware system on the licensed device. When used in a virtualized environment, content protected by digital rights management technology, BitLocker or any full volume disk drive encryption technology may... | May 31 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | ...not be as secure as protected content not in a virtualized environment. You should comply with all domestic and international laws that apply to such protected content. | May 31 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | after that is the Mandatory Activation section | May 31 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | Unless the software is activated, you have no right to use the software after the time permitted for activation. This is to prevent its unlicensed use. You are not permitted to bypass or circumvent activation. If the device is connected to the Internet, the software may automatically connect to Microsoft for activation. You can also activate the software manually by Internet or telephone. If... | May 31 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | ...you do so, Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate it until you do. | May 31 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | That part doesn't apply to me | May 31 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | I can change all the hardware I want | May 31 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | only retail versions and normal OEM box sets enforce that bit | May 31 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | Validation verifies that the software has been activated and is properly licensed. It also verifies that no unauthorized changes have been made to the validation, licensing, or activation functions of the software. Validation may also check for certain malicious or unauthorized software related to such unauthorized changes. A validation check confirming that you are properly licensed... | May 31 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | ...permits you to continue to use the software, certain features of the software or to obtain additional benefits. You are not permitted to circumvent validation. This is to prevent unlicensed use of the software. | May 31 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | that would be things like OEM bootloaders | May 31 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | usually based on GRUB | May 31 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | POTENTIALLY UNWANTED SOFTWARE. If turned on, Windows Defender will search your computer for “spyware,” “adware” and other potentially unwanted software. If it finds potentially unwanted software, the software will ask you if you want to ignore, disable (quarantine) or remove it. Any potentially unwanted software rated “high” or “severe,” will automatically be removed after... | May 31 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | ...scanning unless... | May 31 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | ...you change the default setting. Removing or disabling potentially unwanted software may result in | May 31 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | ·other software on your computer ceasing to work, or | May 31 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | ·your breaching a license to use other software on your computer. | May 31 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | By using this software, it is possible that you will also remove or disable software that is not potentially unwanted software. | May 31 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | It's on by default and Microsoft can remove anything it flags as "highly dangerous" without user intervention | May 31 20:36 |
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| _goblin | hello all | May 31 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | BACKUP COPY. You may make one backup copy of the media. You may use it only to reinstall the software. | May 31 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | NOTICE ABOUT THE MPEG-2 VISUAL STANDARD. This software includes MPEG-2 visual decoding technology. MPEG LA, L.L.C. requires this notice: | May 31 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | USE OF THIS PRODUCT IN ANY MANNER THAT COMPLIES WITH THE MPEG 2 VISUAL STANDARD IS PROHIBITED, EXCEPT FOR USE DIRECTLY RELATED TO (A) DATA OR INFORMATION (i) GENERATED BY AND OBTAINED WITHOUT CHARGE FROM A CONSUMER NOT THEREBY ENGAGED IN A BUSINESS ENTERPRISE, AND (ii) FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY; AND (B) OTHER USES SPECIFICALLY AND SEPARATELY LICENSED BY MPEG LA, L.L.C. | May 31 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | If you have questions about the MPEG-2 visual standard, please contact MPEG LA, L.L.C., 250 Steele Street, Suite 300, Denver, Colorado 80206; http://www.mpegla.com. | May 31 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | heh | May 31 20:39 |
| tacone | BACKUP COPY. You may make one backup copy of the media. You may use it only to reinstall the software. | May 31 20:41 |
| tacone | lol | May 31 20:41 |
| schestowitz | they misspell "malware" | May 31 20:42 |
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| ick, someone spammed the channel with M$ | May 31 20:43 | |
| So, FC, should I be put in jail and fined if I violate the terms of that EULA? Gotta keep the respect, right? | May 31 20:45 | |
| DaemonFC | they have the right to file a civil suit against you | May 31 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | a jury will award damages | May 31 20:47 |
| and FC is rooting for jail time? | May 31 20:48 | |
| DaemonFC | there's no jail time for breach of contract | May 31 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | just damages | May 31 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | I'd probably suggest damages of the maximum fine levied for stealing a boxed set from the store | May 31 20:49 |
| that's jail time, FC | May 31 20:49 | |
| DaemonFC | in Indiana, that's $5,000 | May 31 20:50 |
| people go to jail for stealing when they shoplift | May 31 20:50 | |
| DaemonFC | no, that's the criminal conviction of theft, the jury can't send you to jail for breach of contract | May 31 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | I would recommend the fine of $5,000 | May 31 20:50 |
| nice | May 31 20:50 | |
| DaemonFC | if you don't pay, it becomes contempt of court | May 31 20:51 |
| I wonder if jury members could be excluded based on OS of choice. | May 31 20:51 | |
| DaemonFC | then you can go to jail | May 31 20:51 |
| because I would not want to be judged by such ignorant people as Windows users | May 31 20:51 | |
| DaemonFC | well, it's random | May 31 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | they call people who are registered to vote | May 31 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | so you get a fair hearing | May 31 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | by a jury of peers | May 31 20:52 |
| you get to reject jury members | May 31 20:53 | |
| DaemonFC | that's also how I'd figure the fine for unlicensed music | May 31 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | $5,000 per album | May 31 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | no | May 31 20:53 |
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| DaemonFC | your lawyer and the other party's attorney have to agree | May 31 20:54 |
| DaemonFC | otherwise the jury member can't be dismissed | May 31 20:54 |
| the judge rules | May 31 20:54 | |
| generally. things might be different in your state | May 31 20:54 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 31 20:54 |
| DaemonFC | the jury decides the damages | May 31 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | the judge is basically just an arbitrator | May 31 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | he gets to accept or reject the total of damages | May 31 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | but not he verdict | May 31 20:56 |
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| DaemonFC | it usually gets settles before the jury even hears the case | May 31 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | because the person who did the wrongdoing knows they're guilty | May 31 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | and decides to get it over with now | May 31 20:57 |
| are you working for the RIAA today, FC? | May 31 21:04 | |
| DaemonFC | no | May 31 21:11 |
| _goblin | In regards to UK law, it would be the jury that decides guilt, the judge that passes sentence. | May 31 21:12 |
| _goblin | remember the Piratebay was dealt with by means of Criminal not Civil law... | May 31 21:13 |
| corruption | May 31 21:13 | |
| bbl | May 31 21:13 | |
| _goblin | in the UK thats "Beyond all reasonable doubt" unlike civil which is "balance of probabilities" | May 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | tacone: "Stefano Forenza’s Web site... nice site, I didn't knew about it before! Thanks for the tip." http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/microsoft-changes-firefox-software/#comments | May 31 21:18 |
| tacone | lol | May 31 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Goes Milking Its Partners < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/microsoft-vs-partners/ > | May 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Mainstream Media Successfully (Maybe Voluntarily) Deceived by Microsoft’s Paid Lobbyists < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/deceived-by-microsoft-lobbyists/ > | May 31 21:27 |
| tacone | nice he likes it | May 31 21:28 |
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| DaemonFC | http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Lunix | May 31 21:52 |
| schestowitz | teh Linux is teh suxx | May 31 21:52 |
| schestowitz | http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Cox-imaze.jpg | May 31 21:54 |
| schestowitz | I only recognise two people | May 31 21:54 |
| tacone | lol | May 31 22:02 |
| tacone | schestowitz: http://elleuca.blogspot.com/2009/05/forza-banshee-multimedia-e-nuovi-media.html | May 31 22:02 |
| tacone | Conclusione? Mah, a parte il "ma andate tutti a fare in culo" | May 31 22:04 |
| tacone | Conclusion: well, putting aside the "fuck you all" .. | May 31 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Forenza Banshee.. | May 31 22:05 |
| schestowitz | Did you start a C++ fork?? | May 31 22:05 |
| *liberfiasco (n=libervis@93-138-30-8.adsl.net.t-com.hr) has joined #boycottnovell | May 31 22:05 | |
| tacone | forza bansee = go banshee | May 31 22:06 |
| tacone | (provocative title) | May 31 22:06 |
| tacone | banshee is better forked in brainfuck | May 31 22:06 |
| *libervisco has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | May 31 22:07 | |
| *Balrog_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 31 22:08 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPv8PPl7ANU | May 31 22:08 |
| tacone | i've used banshee for some month (really!) | May 31 22:09 |
| tacone | and it crashed on certain mp3s | May 31 22:09 |
| tacone | in the new version of ubuntu rhythmbox seems to have resolved it's problem with accessibility+multimedia keys (and btw i didn't enabled the accessibility features yet) and i prefer rhythmbox, on a purely functional base | May 31 22:10 |
| tacone | banshee is not superior to rhythmbox, it's vaguely on pair. | May 31 22:10 |
| schestowitz | PPLive|Synacast Puts Microsoft (Employee) in Charge; More AstroTurf Sightings < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/pplivesynacast-puts-microsoft-employee-in-charge-more-astroturf-sightings/ > | May 31 22:12 |
| tacone | that's the truth. | May 31 22:13 |
| tacone | that's not a mono based judgment. exhaile crashes as often as banshee for me. thus no exhaile as well for me. | May 31 22:13 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that's an MS ad | May 31 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Why post it here? | May 31 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | cause it's funny | May 31 22:15 |
| tacone | schestowitz: it looks like the novell ad :) | May 31 22:15 |
| tacone | it's scaringly similar | May 31 22:16 |
| tacone | who's the director ? | May 31 22:16 |
| *tacone downloading the ad | May 31 22:19 | |
| tacone | the novell ad was better anyway | May 31 22:20 |
| tacone | improved version :) | May 31 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | it's not an ad | May 31 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | it's an internal video | May 31 22:27 |
| tacone | ...... | May 31 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | they use them to boost employee or shareholder morale | May 31 22:27 |
| tacone | what ?! | May 31 22:27 |
| tacone | lol | May 31 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart does them too | May 31 22:27 |
| tacone | i won't believe that. | May 31 22:27 |
| tacone | it's viral crapublicity | May 31 22:27 |
| *tacone wants to know the name of the director | May 31 22:28 | |
| DaemonFC | seriously | May 31 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | Edelman does them on contract | May 31 22:28 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: sometime corporation don't push out ads explicity | May 31 22:28 |
| tacone | DaemonFC: i finally could see the whole video. guess you're right. not end user stuff | May 31 22:34 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's not internal video | May 31 22:35 |
| schestowitz | it's viral marketing | May 31 22:35 |
| schestowitz | They disguised it as 'leaked' video | May 31 22:35 |
| tacone | yes, but it's not end user stuff | May 31 22:35 |
| schestowitz | There are also those Ballmer videos as car slaesman | May 31 22:35 |
| tacone | it's business oriented. | May 31 22:35 |
| schestowitz | YouTube, Blogspot security ‘ineffective’, claims Websense < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25345/1054/ > | May 31 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk | May 31 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8IufkbuD0 | May 31 22:39 |
| *liberfiasco is now known as libervisco | May 31 22:40 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar_r2kE9Ej4 | May 31 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Accused of “Willful and Deliberate” infringement and “Discovery Misconduct” in Another Patent Case < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/31/ms-patents-discovery-misconduct/ > | May 31 22:46 |
| _goblin | Hi Roy. | May 31 22:48 |
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| schestowitz | Yo | May 31 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Done posting all I had queued | May 31 22:50 |
| _goblin | :) Enjoying the weather? | May 31 22:50 |
| schestowitz | About 15 posts today, similar number yesterday | May 31 22:50 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: too hot | May 31 22:50 |
| _goblin | been hot here for the past 2 days! | May 31 22:50 |
| schestowitz | At least I get direct sunlight while using rhe PC | May 31 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Tanning while reading and writing :-) | May 31 22:51 |
| _goblin | Ive been using the wonders of a laptop....and a new distro (for me anyway) | May 31 22:51 |
| _goblin | Mandriva... | May 31 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05ZQ7WHw8Y | May 31 22:51 |
| _goblin | havent touched it for a long while, Im impressed how far its come... | May 31 22:52 |
| _goblin | and it certainly asks the question, why is Ubuntu seen as the must have Linux distro.... | May 31 22:52 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: you TOO??? OMG OMG! | May 31 22:53 |
| _goblin | ? | May 31 22:53 |
| schestowitz | I use Mandrtva TOO!!1 | May 31 22:53 |
| schestowitz | /waves hands frantically / | May 31 22:53 |
| _goblin | Ive just done a feature on it on my site! | May 31 22:53 |
| _goblin | I was very impressed. | May 31 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Yes, which DE? | May 31 22:54 |
| schestowitz | I use KDE | May 31 22:54 |
| _goblin | same here | May 31 22:54 |
| schestowitz | I chose Mandriva Spring cause it got good reviews in 2008 | May 31 22:54 |
| _goblin | lol | May 31 22:54 |
| schestowitz | No, seriously | May 31 22:54 |
| _goblin | you wont believe this...so did I | May 31 22:54 |
| schestowitz | It just got many praises | May 31 22:54 |
| schestowitz | I read a LOT of reviews | May 31 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsTLUSMOgas&feature=PlayList&p=4DEA7CDFDE10F32E&index=0 | May 31 22:55 |
| _goblin | great minds think alike? ;) | May 31 22:55 |
| _goblin | Roy, what desktop wallpaper are you using? Its not the red leaf by any chance is it? | May 31 22:56 |
| schestowitz | The corrupt people from Merck (see recent incidents) want to associate selves with OSS. http://www.xconomy.com/seattle/2009/05/28/open-source-biology-movement-co-founder-mercks-eric-schadt-leaves-for-new-job/ | May 31 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I shufle | May 31 22:57 |
| schestowitz | There's some VIsta wp's in there | May 31 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I can't wait till Vista 7 is out | May 31 22:57 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: LOL! | May 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Can it make you walk on water? | May 31 22:58 |
| _goblin | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/is-there-only-one-choice-for-the-linux-newcomer/ | May 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Yes | May 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva is easy, easy, easy | May 31 22:58 |
| _goblin | only thing I noticed....no packaged IRC client included...or did I miss something..? | May 31 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | there's still no hotfixes for Vista SP2 | May 31 22:59 |
| _goblin | Its the first time i've given KDE any serious attention, since Im mostly an openbox or Gnome man. | May 31 23:00 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | May 31 23:01 | |
| neighborlee_ | _goblin, it prob. comes with konversation out of box due to it being kde based distro | May 31 23:03 |
| neighborlee_ | _goblin, its the basic equivalent to xchat | May 31 23:03 |
| neighborlee_ | _goblin, does new mandriva make installing nvidia/ati drivers as easy out of box im curious | May 31 23:04 |
| neighborlee_ | _goblin, ubuntu, while I wont use it, does make that rather simplistic | May 31 23:04 |
| neighborlee_ | _goblin, oh wait nvm...last I checked livecd has those auto working at desktop..not sure about installed version | May 31 23:05 |
| *neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | May 31 23:06 | |
| schestowitz | Black *uck Software is still pushing MS into OSS fray: http://campustechnology.com/articles/2009/05/28/microsoft-links-codeplex-to-open-source-repositories.aspx | May 31 23:06 |
| schestowitz | Black *uck Software was created by an MSFTer | May 31 23:06 |
| schestowitz | They usher Microsoft into FOSS | May 31 23:06 |
| oiaohm | They have to do something to cover up that sourceforge is slowly buying a lot of open source repoistories. | May 31 23:08 |
| _goblin | sorry neighborlee I was afk | May 31 23:08 |
| oiaohm | Sourceforge having think geek is also a fairly handy thing. | May 31 23:08 |
| _goblin | Neighborlee: It doesn't appear to come packaged with Konversation. | May 31 23:09 |
| _goblin | I could be wrong though since I removed most of the packages it came bundled with | May 31 23:09 |
| oiaohm | So no KSirc either. | May 31 23:10 |
| oiaohm | Uninstall like mad no matter if its a Linux or Windows system you can regret it. | May 31 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gn0Annr0h-9FIDc_3RXgyXWP40nQD98HG2P00 | May 31 23:16 |
| _goblin | Oiaohm: Just removing the bloat (or the packages I dont need) | May 31 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | the Christian terrorists tried to murder the doctor and his staff several times in the past | May 31 23:16 |
| Merck invades free software? The same people with the Vioxx, publish BS journals and bully doctor scandal drug company? | May 31 23:20 | |
| and the dude is from Seattle too ... figures. | May 31 23:20 | |
| "Open Source Biology" | May 31 23:20 | |
| DaemonFC | nothing wrong with Vioxx | May 31 23:21 |
| schestowitz | twitter: yes, MS press | May 31 23:21 |
| schestowitz | I don't like that site | May 31 23:21 |
| the term "Open Source" is now more polluted and diluted than "free" | May 31 23:21 | |
| DaemonFC | the problem was overblown and now people that are dying anyway and in excruciating pain have one less drug to stop it | May 31 23:21 |
| FC is now a doctor | May 31 23:21 | |
| DaemonFC | well, it's certainly no use than potheads wanting to legalize marijuana under the guise of therapeutic benefits | May 31 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | *worse | May 31 23:22 |
| _goblin | Dr Daemon ... it has a ring to it... | May 31 23:22 |
| _goblin | I thought he was RIAA earlier? | May 31 23:22 |
| he's a troll, he'll be anything to annoy | May 31 23:22 | |
| DaemonFC | not 20 different people on Slashdot at least | May 31 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | huh twit? | May 31 23:23 |
| how many nyms do you have here, FC? | May 31 23:23 | |
| I'm only using one. | May 31 23:23 | |
| but yeah, I'm sure I've seen you before | May 31 23:24 | |
| oiaohm | Its a mixed world twitter. Not everyone fits into a normal box. | May 31 23:24 |
| FC fits the profile of troll very well. | May 31 23:25 | |
| In any case, I'd rather not be disrupted for long | May 31 23:26 | |
| Debian Medical has a nice collection of free medical and biology software | May 31 23:26 | |
| oiaohm | Lot of the argument for Open Source Biology is the same kinds of arguments that started free software foundation. | May 31 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | hospitals typically use Windows XP Embedded or Windows XP Tablet PC Edition | May 31 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | XP Pro on desktops | May 31 23:27 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the hosipal. | May 31 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | but they have the embedded versions on the patient logging terminals | May 31 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | they load it off of flash storage | May 31 23:28 |
| oiaohm | Ones here have windows for word processing/reports. Solaris for medicial data. | May 31 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | I used to browse around with it using Virtual Keyboard and IE 6 | May 31 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | :P | May 31 23:28 |
| oiaohm | Yes they don't trust a life with windows. | May 31 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | they have a list of approved antivirus software on their desktop systems | May 31 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | you can't really plug anything into the terminals | May 31 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | and the sessions can't persist anyway | May 31 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Wonder if that will change as MS rolls back cheep software for hospitals and other medical over there. | May 31 23:31 |
| *neighborlee_ has quit ("Leaving") | May 31 23:31 | |
| DaemonFC | I've never worked anywhere that used anything but Windows | May 31 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | most all of them are using some form of XP | May 31 23:32 |
| Medicine is science and science should never be conducted with non free software | May 31 23:32 | |
| DaemonFC | Who cares? | May 31 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | it works | May 31 23:32 |
| schestowitz | It doesn;t | May 31 23:33 |
| tacone | sort of | May 31 23:33 |
| you have to be loony to do any real work on Windows - there's no configuration control, so you never really know if it works or not | May 31 23:33 | |
| tacone | just like linux btw | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Like breathalisers | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Or voting machines | May 31 23:33 |
| oiaohm | Australia policy on medical data traces back to when the prime mistater of a state was almost killed by a hacked computer system. | May 31 23:33 |
| it's not repeatable, so it's not science. | May 31 23:33 | |
| schestowitz | Ask NHGS | May 31 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | there's plenty of configuration control | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | NHS | May 31 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | just not on the cheap home versions | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Windows crashes on them during surgeries | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | people get killed | May 31 23:33 |
| oiaohm | I am supprised that has not been attempted in the usa yet. | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Conficker takes over hospitals | May 31 23:33 |
| schestowitz | This shuts them down for DAYS | May 31 23:33 |
| Bill Gate's dad had cancer once. His treatment plan happened on Prism at UW - free software. | May 31 23:34 | |
| When the chips are down, there's the answer. | May 31 23:34 | |
| oiaohm | Here it was drug subitution. | May 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | who cares what it is? | May 31 23:34 |
| oiaohm | Really nasty. | May 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | one place I was working at is still using Windows NT 4 | May 31 23:35 |
| oiaohm | Computer crime laws also got strict after that. Caught doing computer crime it is the same a murder. | May 31 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | if it works, don't mess with it | May 31 23:35 |
| What do you mean ohm? | May 31 23:35 | |
| In any case, I don't see any Open Source Biology names in the Debian Medical archives, so I don't think their business means what they want people to think it means. | May 31 23:36 | |
| oiaohm | You alter data here without approval (virus writing, breaking into systems....) get caught its 15 years jail in max secuirty. | May 31 23:36 |
| Prevention is better than cure, ohm. | May 31 23:36 | |
| DaemonFC | that might means something if most people writing viruses were in a country wth laws | May 31 23:36 |
| people need to dump Windows, especially in places like health care. | May 31 23:37 | |
| DaemonFC | most of them are in some third world country that doesn't care | May 31 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Ever since the time a primemister of a state was tried to be killed by altering the electronic records. | May 31 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Also lead to medical data systems having to be auditable from the source level up. | May 31 23:37 |
| oiaohm | How to cause usage of open source in a really wrong way. | May 31 23:38 |
| _goblin | Aw I feel bad. Nieghbourlee was trying to PM me and I never noticed... If anyone sees him and I'm not here, say sorry to him. | May 31 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | I really haven't seen any free software that can replace all of of what proprietary software does in a hospital | May 31 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | or any worthy inventory control software that can scale | May 31 23:39 |
| you are blind as usual, FC | May 31 23:39 | |
| DaemonFC | an OS is useless without applications and driver support | May 31 23:40 |
| probably because you don't work in a hospital | May 31 23:40 | |
| oiaohm | For some of the rules on medical we might need a someone high up in goverment to have head online. | May 31 23:40 |
| that would be good | May 31 23:40 | |
| oiaohm | It worked here. | May 31 23:40 |
| right now the rules are pointing to non free crap, perverted as usual by corporate interests | May 31 23:40 | |
| DaemonFC | no, if they had to use Linux, there would be no applications for them | May 31 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | so the machines would hum and burn electricity | May 31 23:41 |
| Interestingly enough, medical equipment makers use GNU/Linux a lot. | May 31 23:41 | |
| oiaohm | Lol DaemonFC | May 31 23:41 |
| oiaohm | You do know that orcale makes large block of management software for hostiptals. | May 31 23:41 |
| GE, Seimens, Phillips and others | May 31 23:41 | |
| oiaohm | And its cross platform. | May 31 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | I'd like to see open source software that can monitor patients | May 31 23:42 |
| The VA also has a complete set of administrative software | May 31 23:42 | |
| DaemonFC | or manage inventory in thousands of stores and warehouses | May 31 23:42 |
| VISTA | May 31 23:42 | |
| DaemonFC | because it doesn't exist | May 31 23:42 |
| oiaohm | Oracle's DaemonFC | May 31 23:42 |
| M Language, etc. | May 31 23:42 | |
| oiaohm | You do pay for it DaemonFC | May 31 23:42 |
| FC, your ignorance is matched only by your willingness to express it. | May 31 23:42 | |
| oiaohm | Managing that size well windows don't scale. | May 31 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | there's no cost savings in going with Oracle cause you still need to pay them to support it | May 31 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | and they have proprietary cap that makes the non free crap useful | May 31 23:43 |
| There's vast cost savings to getting rid of Windows on the desktop, FC | May 31 23:43 | |
| oiaohm | They are most likely paying Oracle now. | May 31 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | errr | May 31 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | so you end up with an open source base that really does nothing useful | May 31 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | and a set of Oracle plugins for it | May 31 23:43 |
| Your definition of useful is amusing, FC | May 31 23:44 | |
| DaemonFC | how is that better? | May 31 23:44 |
| but there is a huge set of free software too | May 31 23:44 | |
| oiaohm | Number one Orcale is certfied to run on Linux. | May 31 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Its not certified for large deployments on Windows. | May 31 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | there's lots of free stuff,l some cars are free if you haul them away | May 31 23:44 |
| oiaohm | So your support costs are lower. | May 31 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | others cost $100,000 | May 31 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | May 31 23:44 |
| 5cm skull | May 31 23:45 | |
| oiaohm | Ie anything Orcale certifies Orcale will provide 100 percent support on. | May 31 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, if you pay them a lot of money for it | May 31 23:45 |
| oiaohm | Something life or death thats is what you want. | May 31 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | so you end up with all the cost and none of the benefits | May 31 23:45 |
| Equipment makers charge plenty for free software, it just works better for them. | May 31 23:45 | |
| DaemonFC | maybe in some simple cases | May 31 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Also Orcales systems for hospitals are not fullly closed source. | May 31 23:46 |
| oiaohm | You have licence you have source code. | May 31 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | You could use Linux in your routers if it wasn't for the GPL | May 31 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | so it even failed that area | May 31 23:46 |
| Give it up, FC, your favorite desktop won't have a place in medicine long. | May 31 23:46 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, just as there's something that can replace it | May 31 23:47 |
| oiaohm | So even if Orcale disappear into nothingness. Hospitables could get another provider. | May 31 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | which won't happen for a long time | May 31 23:47 |
| oiaohm | You don't see MS doing that. | May 31 23:47 |
| _goblin | Speaking in regards to the NHS, it is reported the system as it is does not work | May 31 23:48 |
| _goblin | it is a big waste of money | May 31 23:48 |
| _goblin | and thats the mainstream press and NHS exec's saying that. | May 31 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | you won't just slap Debian on hospital computers, they have ridiculous restrictions that make it unsuitable | May 31 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | one would be the lack of equivalent software | May 31 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | and the other is licensing restrictions | May 31 23:49 |
| _goblin | you couldn't "slap" any system onto the NHS | May 31 23:49 |
| _goblin | thats been the problem. | May 31 23:49 |
| _goblin | IMO | May 31 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but I mean the software you need doesn't even exist for Linux | May 31 23:49 |
| oiaohm | What software does not exist. | May 31 23:49 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem DaemonFC | May 31 23:49 |
| _goblin | As I understand it, the NHS paid for custom softare | May 31 23:49 |
| oiaohm | There is very little that does not. | May 31 23:50 |
| _goblin | and it's the custom software that failed. | May 31 23:50 |
| _goblin | the OS it ran on was not the issue. | May 31 23:50 |
| _goblin | although the armed forces and other government bodies have had their problems with Redmonds offering. | May 31 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart has their own satellite network for shits sake | May 31 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | if Linux could operate their network, they'd use it | May 31 23:51 |
| _goblin | who can forget the airforce exploit that was sending something to Russia | May 31 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | they don't just waste money | May 31 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | it's not what they're in business to do | May 31 23:52 |
| _goblin | or the Navy's coms system that went down because of a Windows issue | May 31 23:52 |
| _goblin | Back on topic, the NHS invested badly in custom software, they could have quite easily have had the same software on a Linux platform. | May 31 23:52 |
| _goblin | the difference being, at least when the fail came it would have been a cheaper loss to take. | May 31 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | whoever did it knew enough to not even try with Linux | May 31 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | apparently | May 31 23:53 |
| _goblin | untrue | May 31 23:53 |
| oiaohm | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9052142 Thing is around the world the back end of most medical networks is Linux or solarias | May 31 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Even in the USA. | May 31 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Some hospitals extend this to the desktop. | May 31 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Since there are a lot of machine locations that are basically just POS's accessing the Linux/solarias server anyhow. | May 31 23:54 |
| oiaohm | So why waste windows licences on them. | May 31 23:55 |
| _goblin | spot on. | May 31 23:55 |
| MinceR | oh snap. | May 31 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Linux/Solarias are invisable but are used in large volumes people don't even know. | May 31 23:55 |
| _goblin | Having briefly looked at the NHS system, you could run that software on ANY platform and the end user would be unaware. | May 31 23:55 |
| _goblin | The myth that somehow Linux would not be appropriate is wrong, most "average users" are not even aware that Vista 7 is RC. | May 31 23:56 |
| oiaohm | I manage a Linux system for a saw mil here. Only thing it handles is there inventory and pos's. Staff there are very MS focused. They were forced due to size to go Linux. | May 31 23:57 |
| _goblin | and Microsoft's Mojave experiment sort of proved (detrimentally to them) that users can get used to anything very quickly. | May 31 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Idea that Windows scales is crap. | May 31 23:57 |
| _goblin | DaemonFC: if you look at how the dev world is progressing, its all about cross platform, the OS you are running is less relevant today (in the running of apps) | May 31 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Note its not one saw mil there are over 4000 data entry points tracking progress of orders and the like. | May 31 23:59 |
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