| _Goblin | Roy, do you know what happened to AstralKnight? What was he banned from Digg and why has he not posted in the last 24 hours? | Jul 19 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | _Goblin already has something like that | Jul 19 00:00 |
| schestowitz | OK, done. I already have an account. Can someone please try to leave a comment in BN (anywhere) by opening an account there? It is now required that one registers. | Jul 19 00:02 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: I don't even know who that person is | Jul 19 00:02 |
| schestowitz | I know the name... some fan of ours | Jul 19 00:02 |
| schestowitz | An open alternative for Palm Pre iTunes users http://practical-tech.com/entertainment/an-open-alternative-for-palm-pre-itunes-users/ | Jul 19 00:05 |
| _Goblin | doesnt matter then....I came across him when he dugg a few of my articles....He was quite a regular poster on Twitter too. | Jul 19 00:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: so whats up? | Jul 19 00:06 |
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| schestowitz | Security issues with sudo http://mihaiv.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/security-issues-with-sudo/ | Jul 19 00:06 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: BN now requires logging in to comment. I gave up and adopted a Groklaw-like commenting policy. When there is a level of person thread with libel against me, I am left with no other choice. | Jul 19 00:07 |
| sanity check | Jul 19 00:07 | |
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| seller_liar | roy ,are you here? | Jul 19 00:08 |
| wallclimber | I think that having to log in is a good choice. | Jul 19 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: hey, what's up? | Jul 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: did you hear about ODF? :-D | Jul 19 00:09 |
| seller_liar | We need create a section called "common troll tactics" | Jul 19 00:09 |
| seller_liar | no | Jul 19 00:09 |
| seller_liar | in wiki | Jul 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: most discussion is in IRC anyway | Jul 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: I can find a starting point | Jul 19 00:09 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: hold on | Jul 19 00:09 |
| wallclimber | A Guide to common Troll Identification (needs some illustrations, don't you think? : ) | Jul 19 00:10 |
| seller_liar | for example ,explain what is "mod bombing" , "frontpage attack", various names and tohers | Jul 19 00:10 |
| seller_liar | Yes ,but we have to find one | Jul 19 00:10 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: I'll start a page. HOld on. | Jul 19 00:11 |
| seller_liar | ok thanks ! | Jul 19 00:11 |
| seller_liar | green geek for example give us a good explananation about a front attack to disrupt site ads and page ranking | Jul 19 00:12 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Does groklaw have similar problems? Do they require registration? | Jul 19 00:13 |
| tessier | I think requiring registration and a working email address is a fine thing. | Jul 19 00:13 |
| tessier | It doesn't mean the trolls have one. It means you aren't making it so easy for them anymore. | Jul 19 00:13 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes, PJ told me about rise in trolling | Jul 19 00:14 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: hold on | Jul 19 00:14 |
| schestowitz | You can help me a lot, I'll post a placeholder | Jul 19 00:14 |
| tessier | I also support deleting comments you don't agree with. It is your blog. MS already has plenty of forums in which to express their opinion and answer criticisms. No need for you to help them with it. | Jul 19 00:14 |
| schestowitz | tessier: better to avoid deletion | Jul 19 00:15 |
| schestowitz | But if people's E-mail addy gets banned, they'll be careful when posting | Jul 19 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Creating new addies takes time, then registering too | Jul 19 00:15 |
| wallclimber | Just curious, but how accurate do you (meaning anyone that wants to answer) think the "Security issues with sudo" blog post is? | Jul 19 00:15 |
| How do you register to BN? | Jul 19 00:16 | |
| tessier | schestowitz: Currently the machine only has a gig of RAM. I just upped it to two which should improve performance quite a bit. But it will require a reboot to take effect. | Jul 19 00:16 |
| tessier | wallclimber: What blog post? url? I use sudo extensively. | Jul 19 00:16 |
| wallclimber | Roy posted this a little earlier: http://mihaiv.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/security-issues-with-sudo/ | Jul 19 00:16 |
| tessier | I enabled the msyql query cache and it is working according to mysql but does not seem to be having much effect on performance. | Jul 19 00:16 |
| The trolls will probably have all their accounts registered by now.... it's their job to stay on top of these things. | Jul 19 00:18 | |
| and here I sit with other things to do. | Jul 19 00:18 | |
| tessier | wallclimber: That looks like an ubuntu specific thing. Not sudo in general. | Jul 19 00:18 |
| tessier | twitter: Even if they do they will get banned soon enough and have to start over. | Jul 19 00:19 |
| wallclimber | Yes, it does seem to be about Ubuntu, but towards the end the blogger seems to suggest that WindowsXP handles things more securely, and the very last line says this: "Linux security fundamentalists please read the above twice before posting" | Jul 19 00:19 |
| seller_liar | creating a section avout commn troll attack,helps people to detect common trolls | Jul 19 00:20 |
| ThistleWeb | you could employ moderation to comments, and move all troll comments by known MS trolls to a separate page linked to the article in question | Jul 19 00:20 |
| ThistleWeb | instead of including them in the normal flow of comments, allowing them to derail it | Jul 19 00:20 |
| ThistleWeb | which also allows you to retain them as evidence | Jul 19 00:20 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Commenting_Policy | Jul 19 00:21 |
| *_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jul 19 00:21 | |
| ThistleWeb | a sorta dual column of comments, one for normal users, another for the known trolls | Jul 19 00:21 |
| ThistleWeb | where the normal one is shown by default | Jul 19 00:21 |
| ThistleWeb | that'd take time and effort to moderate though | Jul 19 00:21 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: exactly | Jul 19 00:22 |
| *seller_liar has quit ("Page closed") | Jul 19 00:22 | |
| schestowitz | I also don't have the software | Jul 19 00:23 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: not sue about that post, so I posted here, not in daily news picks | Jul 19 00:23 |
| wallclimber | okay, that's what I was wondering about, it seemed a little trollish to me, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to really say | Jul 19 00:24 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Common_Troll_Tactics | Jul 19 00:24 |
| ThistleWeb | I have a project that I'm still trying to conceptualise which will draw a lot of trolls and attacks like BN, my ideas for addressing it were things like having an IRC server, instead of freenode and only allow registered members to contribute to either the site or the IRC, where memberships need to be manually approved, and an IRC nick manually asigned if they want it.....matching their site nick | Jul 19 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Can anyone volunteer to turn this into something that suits the context (site as opposed to the Linux NG where I'm a regular)? | Jul 19 00:25 |
| ThistleWeb | that way they can only use the site under one unified username | Jul 19 00:25 |
| schestowitz | I see.. | Jul 19 00:25 |
| schestowitz | We could run IRC from the BN server | Jul 19 00:25 |
| schestowitz | GPL software | Jul 19 00:25 |
| schestowitz | But we use Freenode's server | Jul 19 00:25 |
| ThistleWeb | if they troll on either comments / forum / irc it;s all tied together as one person | Jul 19 00:26 |
| ThistleWeb | and can be banned / warned etc from the entirety of the site | Jul 19 00:26 |
| ThistleWeb | with freenode, anyone can get an account on freenode and jump in | Jul 19 00:26 |
| ThistleWeb | with your own irc server you can set it to members only can take part, non members can read only | Jul 19 00:27 |
| ThistleWeb | and you manually approve or create accounts | Jul 19 00:27 |
| schestowitz | IRC is easier to police | Jul 19 00:28 |
| schestowitz | Because unlike comments you don't eliminate what people write | Jul 19 00:28 |
| schestowitz | You can eliminate trolls without deleting anything | Jul 19 00:28 |
| ThistleWeb | with your own irc channel, you can ensure that EVERYONE who comes in, has been approved and an account created for them to use, they can't change nicks and return after being banned | Jul 19 00:29 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/2691835966 | Jul 19 00:29 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: own IRC channel is noit simple | Jul 19 00:29 |
| ThistleWeb | irc server* | Jul 19 00:29 |
| schestowitz | I was going to do it, but it's requiring Twisted (for Python) | Jul 19 00:30 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I can't reach BN | Jul 19 00:30 |
| ThistleWeb | no worries, like I said, I'm still trying to conceptualise the project I have in mind so there;s a lot of ideas which may not be all that practical | Jul 19 00:31 |
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| tessier__ | schestowitz: Something weird going on with the server. I'm looking into it. Back up ASAP. Might be related to the bump in memory I gave the site. | Jul 19 00:34 |
| tessier__ | brb | Jul 19 00:34 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: thanks | Jul 19 00:34 |
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| splosion | BN is down? | Jul 19 00:39 |
| splosion | http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/boycottnovell.com | Jul 19 00:40 |
| splosion | bummer | Jul 19 00:40 |
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| schestowitz | 97 former residences of the famous demolished in Beijing < http://www.danwei.org/architecture/97_former_residences_of_the_fa.php > | Jul 19 00:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I think Sunday 19th of July should be Gary Beeton day...Who's Gary Beeton?....a profile of the legend coming soon on Openbytes... | Jul 19 00:44 | |
| schestowitz | Irish Politician: Data Retention Is Good If You Have Nothing To Hide... But Don't Ask For My Data < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090714/1100305545.shtml ? | Jul 19 00:46 |
| schestowitz | Overtis identifies security weaknesses in national children’s database http://www.prosecurityzone.com/Customisation/News/IT_Security/Data_Protection/Overtis_identifies_security_weaknesses_in_national_childrens_database.asp | Jul 19 00:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "When Jack Schofield responds in the comments section, it's often *his* comments that get deleted by the Guardian moderator ..." http:// ... | Jul 19 00:51 | |
| schestowitz | The Great Google Doodle Triforce Conspiracy http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2009-07-16-n41.html | Jul 19 00:52 |
| schestowitz | tacone: ilalian MEP calls for EU Parliament mafias probe http://www.euractiv.com/en/eu-elections/italian-mep-calls-eu-parliament-mafias-probe/article-184200 | Jul 19 00:55 |
| tacone | what's a MEP ? | Jul 19 00:55 |
| schestowitz | PM | Jul 19 00:56 |
| schestowitz | parliment member sih | Jul 19 00:57 |
| tacone | that's interesting though. an european committee would be nice. less influentiable by the mafia | Jul 19 00:57 |
| tacone | if someone stresses an EU intervent it means he doesn't trust the Italian government | Jul 19 00:58 |
| tacone | you'll know that mafia is in real danger only they start shooting. until they don't start shooting again it means that they're doing just fine. | Jul 19 00:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ACTA is still under siege for the civil violation that it is. http://bit.ly/qUSNz | Jul 19 00:59 | |
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| schestowitz | tessier: how's it going? | Jul 19 01:05 |
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| tessier | Everything is back up. | Jul 19 01:05 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Sorry for all the downtime lately. It's been weird. | Jul 19 01:05 |
| tessier | I just kernel panic'd the xen domain0 somehow. | Jul 19 01:05 |
| schestowitz | tessier: that's OK | Jul 19 01:05 |
| tessier | Been using xen for years and never seen that happen before. | Jul 19 01:05 |
| schestowitz | I'm grateful for your support | Jul 19 01:05 |
| *tessier is retracing steps to figure out what could have happened | Jul 19 01:05 | |
| tessier | You are back up with double the RAM and 2 cpu's now (had just one before). I noticed with all the new traffic the site was starting to swap and slow down. Hopefully this will help. | Jul 19 01:06 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Jul 19 01:06 |
| schestowitz | Should we upgrade WordPress now? | Jul 19 01:06 |
| oiaohm | tessier Do you have a spare server. I have had a xen domain kernel panic due to defective ram. | Jul 19 01:06 |
| schestowitz | It would be better to do it while you are around just in case | Jul 19 01:07 |
| tessier | oiaohm: Oddly enough, I ordered another server a couple of days ago. Should be here any day now. | Jul 19 01:07 |
| tessier | They will both be on a SAN so I can do domain migration. | Jul 19 01:07 |
| tessier | And if the server goes down I could instantly restart the domains on the other server. | Jul 19 01:08 |
| tessier | I am slowly building out my managed hosting business. So more hardware (lots more) is definitely needed to reach the level of service required.. | Jul 19 01:08 |
| tessier | We have been mostly in beta stages the last couple months. | Jul 19 01:08 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna see if auto-upgrade works in WordPress. It's supposed to just work | Jul 19 01:09 |
| tessier | I am pretty sure I accidentally over-committed the RAM when I did the upgrade. But xen should not have allowed me to do that and given me an error instead of letting it crash. | Jul 19 01:09 |
| oiaohm | over committed ram should also make oomkiller got to work as well. | Jul 19 01:10 |
| tessier | oomkiller is not involved in xen | Jul 19 01:10 |
| tessier | The hypervisor runs above the linux kernel and oomkiller | Jul 19 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Opps I am thinking KVM | Jul 19 01:11 |
| tessier | Yeah, kvm works completely differently. I may migrate to it somehow but right now I am on xen and don't see enough advantage to kvm | Jul 19 01:12 |
| tessier | The fact that redhat is moving to kvm has my attention though | Jul 19 01:12 |
| oiaohm | kvm + ksm there is an advantage. | Jul 19 01:13 |
| tessier | The whole goal of this xen-aoe architecture I have deployed is that I *don't* have to actually drive down here to the datacenter. | Jul 19 01:13 |
| tessier | oiaohm: What is ksm and what is the advantage? | Jul 19 01:13 |
| oiaohm | ksm is a alteration to the Linux kernel memory managment so it can merge identical ram pages. | Jul 19 01:14 |
| tessier | Identical RAM pages? How often does that really happen? | Jul 19 01:14 |
| splosion | schestowitz: wordpress upgrade? Just a software upgrade or is the site getting a make-over or something? | Jul 19 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Quite a lot really. | Jul 19 01:14 |
| tessier | Interesting | Jul 19 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Think running 2 kernels the same. | Jul 19 01:15 |
| oiaohm | That is duplication. | Jul 19 01:15 |
| oiaohm | libc again duplication. | Jul 19 01:15 |
| tessier | The load on the server seems to be much less now. I think that extra gig of RAM really helped. Not surprising. 2G is normally my standard starting point anyway. | Jul 19 01:15 |
| tessier | oiaohm: But even just a 1 byte offset will mess everything up. | Jul 19 01:15 |
| tessier | How does it keep track of identical pages? Some sort of hash? | Jul 19 01:16 |
| tessier | I guess it does the hash once and is then copy on write from there on? | Jul 19 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Jul 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | OK, I start manual upgrade | Jul 19 01:16 |
| tessier | schestowitz: go for it | Jul 19 01:16 |
| schestowitz | software upgrade | Jul 19 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Catch is Linux kernel does by page offsetting of programs. | Jul 19 01:16 |
| oiaohm | So static parts of binary will be in pages that can be merged. | Jul 19 01:17 |
| splosion | software upgrade? Aww poop that's not exciting for me | Jul 19 01:18 |
| oiaohm | The other is what orcale is working on tmem | Jul 19 01:18 |
| schestowitz | I worry about one plugin (threaded comments) | Jul 19 01:18 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: does 2.7->2.8 really require disabling plugins like predecessors? | Jul 19 01:18 |
| oiaohm | I have not had to do upgrades on wordpress yet schestowitz. | Jul 19 01:19 |
| oiaohm | My uses of it are internal. | Jul 19 01:19 |
| splosion | what's up with the threading limit on the comments, anyway? I've seen wordpress blogs with threads 10 levels deep | Jul 19 01:19 |
| tessier | tmem? | Jul 19 01:20 |
| tessier | oiaohm: Is the by page offsetting a security feature/ | Jul 19 01:20 |
| tessier | ? | Jul 19 01:20 |
| tessier | ASLR etc? | Jul 19 01:20 |
| oiaohm | http://oss.oracle.com/projects/tmem/ << There is tmem. | Jul 19 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Yes ASLR Address randomisation happens by page. | Jul 19 01:21 |
| schestowitz | I'll try with plguins in. Fingers crossed, I have backups anyway | Jul 19 01:22 |
| *amicus (i=6165ccfe@gateway/web/freenode/x-da929f07f3c2d334) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 01:23 | |
| tessier | It's our good friend Amicus Brief! Hello Mr Brief! | Jul 19 01:24 |
| amicus | Not Amicus | Jul 19 01:24 |
| amicus | Brief | Jul 19 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Basically virtualisation tech on Linux is improving tessier. | Jul 19 01:24 |
| tessier | oiaohm: No doubt. I'm enjoying it. I've been deploying xen for people for the last 4 years. | Jul 19 01:25 |
| tessier | Works great. I look forward to more improvements. That is one reason why I have started my own business doing it. Not enough people can commit the resources to really doing it right. | Jul 19 01:25 |
| tessier | I see people buying one box and putting a ton of RAM in it and then putting everything on it with vmware and then the box goes down and they lose 64G of vm's with it. Ouch. And no SAN behind it. | Jul 19 01:26 |
| schestowitz | tessier: stick around just in case. It's almost done. | Jul 19 01:26 |
| tessier | Because they can't afford it and the way I do it is too hard for them. | Jul 19 01:26 |
| tessier | schestowitz: No problem. | Jul 19 01:26 |
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| splosion | jesus. This Lefty guy is showing up all over the place. he's trolling every single blog on the internet, by the looks of it | Jul 19 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Linux is getting 3 major techs for spliting servers. KVM XEN and CGROUPS. Each have there advantages and disadvantages. | Jul 19 01:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | kvm, however, sucks dick | Jul 19 01:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | xen is okay but badly needs a fork to keep the microfucks out | Jul 19 01:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | and Ive never heard of cgroups, which not boding well for it | Jul 19 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Clone of solarias zones is cgroups Diablo-D3 | Jul 19 01:31 |
| tessier | Diablo-D3: "sucks dick" is your professional opinion eh? | Jul 19 01:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | tessier: Ive been able to oops my kernel with it | Jul 19 01:31 |
| schestowitz | WHat kind of blogs are being trolled? | Jul 19 01:31 |
| tessier | Diablo-D3: I just oopsed my kernel with xen 30 minutes ago which is why I am here in the datacenter. What's your point? | Jul 19 01:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | only reason I looked at it because fglrx doesnt like being on the xen dom0 kernel | Jul 19 01:32 |
| *** twitter ignores diablo, does not want to spread splosion of propaganda either | Jul 19 01:32 | |
| Diablo-D3 | twitter: dude, fuck off | Jul 19 01:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | and get a real nick | Jul 19 01:32 |
| tessier | Why on earth would you need fglrx with xen? | Jul 19 01:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | tessier: because its my workstation | Jul 19 01:32 |
| schestowitz | twitter: there is some linsxxxxxxx crowd here | Jul 19 01:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | tessier: I was developing cluster apps and needed a cluster | Jul 19 01:32 |
| why do you listen to oiaohm? | Jul 19 01:32 | |
| oiaohm | kvm and xen both are different design hyprvisors. | Jul 19 01:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets double the dickery here | Jul 19 01:33 |
| *tessier ignores Diablo-D3 too | Jul 19 01:33 | |
| Diablo-D3 | *** diablo ignores twitter, because he hates people | Jul 19 01:33 |
| schestowitz, I know. I've ignored most of them | Jul 19 01:33 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: I do keep up with tech. | Jul 19 01:33 |
| splosion | schestowitz: well, yours, jason's site, canonical's cto, a bunch of personal blogs. I don't think it's anything new to you lot :P I'm just really coming across his antics for the first time | Jul 19 01:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: theres been a few projects to try to do bsd jails/solairs zones | Jul 19 01:33 |
| tessier | Why not just kick them? | Jul 19 01:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: btw, my blog was trolled | Jul 19 01:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: does that count? | Jul 19 01:33 |
| that's for Roy to do. | Jul 19 01:33 | |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: jails are way different to zones. | Jul 19 01:34 |
| there seems to be an overload of them here right now. | Jul 19 01:34 | |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: serves much the same purpose however | Jul 19 01:34 |
| schestowitz | I know | Jul 19 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Jul 19 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Let me finish with the upgrade first | Jul 19 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Not even close Diablo-D3 | Jul 19 01:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: if you're vpsing with solaris zones, obviously no | Jul 19 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Zones control cpu and resource access times. | Jul 19 01:34 |
| take your time, I'm not in a hurry. | Jul 19 01:34 | |
| oiaohm | Something is not a concern of a pure jail Diablo-D3 | Jul 19 01:35 |
| schestowitz | It failed somewhat | Jul 19 01:36 |
| schestowitz | Let's try again | Jul 19 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Basically zones can be used for job control or creating a jail. | Jul 19 01:36 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I will need to resore the DB in a moment | Jul 19 01:37 |
| oiaohm | Current Linux cgroups are complete enough for job control. Not complete enough to create a full blown jail Diablo-D3. | Jul 19 01:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | wait, does cgroups == openvz, linux-vserver, freevps, and friends? | Jul 19 01:38 |
| schestowitz | I'm restoring files from backup, then we need to do the DB | Jul 19 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Its a merge of those 3 Diablo-D3. Because only 1 framework for doing that task can enter main line Linux kernel. | Jul 19 01:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | got a url? | Jul 19 01:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: what happened, btw? | Jul 19 01:39 |
| oiaohm | http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/cgroups.txt That is a overview there is a cgroup for creating a virtual PID and UID space. Problem is device access and proc access. | Jul 19 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Also due to kvm being like a normal process. cgroup controls can be used on it Diablo-D3. | Jul 19 01:47 |
| schestowitz | tessier: ping | Jul 19 01:50 |
| reading the pjprimer thing about Canopus | Jul 19 01:50 | |
| I'm amazed that M$'s insanity goes back as far as the early 90s. Biermann trying to get his fellow M$ employee fired for not being a big enough ass, unbelievable. | Jul 19 01:51 | |
| Take that as a lesson in M$ ethics. | Jul 19 01:51 | |
| schestowitz | tessier: are you around? | Jul 19 01:51 |
| oiaohm | MS bad ethics started with DOS and the deal with IBM twitter | Jul 19 01:53 |
| oiaohm | It just progressively got worse. | Jul 19 01:53 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Yep | Jul 19 01:59 |
| tessier | How's it going? | Jul 19 01:59 |
| schestowitz | In /~ I have a file "latest-wp.dump". This is the WordPress DB file that we need restored. | Jul 19 01:59 |
| schestowitz | Not yet | Jul 19 01:59 |
| schestowitz | I mean ~ | Jul 19 01:59 |
| schestowitz | home dir | Jul 19 01:59 |
| schestowitz | In a moment | Jul 19 01:59 |
| tessier | Ok, just let me know when.... | Jul 19 01:59 |
| schestowitz | I'll need to do the upgrade only after deactivating plguins | Jul 19 02:00 |
| schestowitz | No shortcuts | Jul 19 02:00 |
| tessier | Will you be ready to do it in the next few minutes? If not I'll head back home which will take ~20 minutes. | Jul 19 02:00 |
| schestowitz | Just a minute... :-) | Jul 19 02:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: just shove twitter on ignore | Jul 19 02:03 |
| schestowitz | OK, let's do it now | Jul 19 02:04 |
| schestowitz | It's done putting the old files in place, just need to old DB restored from latest-wp.dump | Jul 19 02:04 |
| schestowitz | to the wordpress DB (about 290MB) | Jul 19 02:04 |
| tessier | ok | Jul 19 02:05 |
| tessier | So I am going to drop the db, recreate it, and load ~boycottn/latest-wp.dump | Jul 19 02:05 |
| tessier | right? | Jul 19 02:05 |
| schestowitz | OK, it's back to normal | Jul 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | This time I won't upgrade the lazy way | Jul 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Thanks a lot | Jul 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Oh, wait. | Jul 19 02:06 |
| *tessier waits | Jul 19 02:06 | |
| schestowitz | Did you not resotre yet? | Jul 19 02:06 |
| tessier | I have not done anything yet | Jul 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Jul 19 02:06 |
| tessier | You are ready for me to drop the old db and restore/ | Jul 19 02:06 |
| tessier | ? | Jul 19 02:06 |
| schestowitz | It even works with the upgraded DB | Jul 19 02:06 |
| oiaohm | twitter does have some valid ideas from time to time Diablo-D3. Just we don't see eye to eye on particular things. twitter is a little too much zellot. | Jul 19 02:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: hes a troll though | Jul 19 02:07 |
| schestowitz | But it's safer to load the old one. | Jul 19 02:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | he puts people on ignore then publically announces it | Jul 19 02:07 |
| schestowitz | "<tessier> So I am going to drop the db, recreate it, and load ~boycottn/latest-wp.dump" | Jul 19 02:07 |
| schestowitz | Let's do it now | Jul 19 02:07 |
| oiaohm | I get called a troll too from time to time. Diablo-D3 | Jul 19 02:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: see above | Jul 19 02:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | and he needs to find a new nick | Jul 19 02:08 |
| oiaohm | See Zellot | Jul 19 02:08 |
| oiaohm | He cannot tollerate anyone with a different idea to him. | Jul 19 02:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | thus he stays on ignore until he learns to behave | Jul 19 02:08 |
| tessier | ok | Jul 19 02:08 |
| tessier | Loading the old one now... | Jul 19 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or latter he will be setting ignore to everyone in channel. | Jul 19 02:09 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah twitter does seem like a one-trick-pony with an attitude problem | Jul 19 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: basically don't ignore him does not deserve that. | Jul 19 02:09 |
| schestowitz | See what happens in some forums | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | my time is not infinite, neither is my | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | [08:58:34] <Diablo-D3> got a url? | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | [08:58:42] <Diablo-D3> schestowitz: what happened, btw? | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | [09:00:48] <oiaohm> http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/cgroups.txt | Jul 19 02:10 |
| ThistleWeb | not very welcoming for new peeps to the channel | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | ack | Jul 19 02:10 |
| schestowitz | Suspicions of people is always high | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | goddmanit xchat! | Jul 19 02:10 |
| tessier | loading.... | Jul 19 02:10 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: please stay out for now | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: stay out of what? | Jul 19 02:10 |
| ThistleWeb | he epotomises the stereotypes of zealots first hand and plays into the FUD | Jul 19 02:10 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: nm | Jul 19 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | its just xchat pasting random crap | Jul 19 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Having people about his topics and not understanding what is going on will teach him lesson of tollerence. Diablo-D3 | Jul 19 02:10 |
| tessier | done | Jul 19 02:11 |
| tessier | schestowitz: How does it look/ | Jul 19 02:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | [09:29:23] <Diablo-D3> my time is not infinite, neither is my patience | Jul 19 02:11 |
| tessier | ? | Jul 19 02:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: meh | Jul 19 02:11 |
| schestowitz | tessier: excellent! | Jul 19 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Me have lot of patience. | Jul 19 02:11 |
| schestowitz | Works OK. Still in version 2.7. I am going to do the long upgrade route | Jul 19 02:11 |
| *amicus has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Jul 19 02:12 | |
| schestowitz | I hopefully won't bother you again. This ought to work right this time | Jul 19 02:12 |
| tessier | ok, I'm heading home then. Will be back online in 20-30 min. | Jul 19 02:12 |
| schestowitz | THanks, tessier | Jul 19 02:12 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I live next to a DC too | Jul 19 02:12 |
| oiaohm | I am getting really sick of this marking compains recently everything has to leak. | Jul 19 02:12 |
| schestowitz | 200 meters from it | Jul 19 02:12 |
| oiaohm | No nice normal announce ments. | Jul 19 02:12 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: MS killed another product | Jul 19 02:12 |
| schestowitz | And they will report massive drop in profit | Jul 19 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Ok what one. | Jul 19 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Link. | Jul 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3378 | Jul 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is VERY nervous right now | Jul 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | That's no paranoid talk | Jul 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | Watch Ballmer's talk the other dau | Jul 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | He went mental over the economy. There was a video he was ridiculed for | Jul 19 02:13 |
| schestowitz | BN is one of the good sites for showing the decline of division,s staff, and profits | Jul 19 02:14 |
| splosion | just finished reading lefty's lawsuit challenge. sheesh. | Jul 19 02:14 |
| oiaohm | They are not getting it. | Jul 19 02:14 |
| oiaohm | The economy is not the problem. | Jul 19 02:14 |
| oiaohm | If economy was a problem companies like redhat would be hurting. | Jul 19 02:14 |
| schestowitz | splosion: If he sues then I am suing... for Libel . Companies are simply people and the behaviour of their employees -- more so with senior employees -- is the behaviour of the company and its responsibility if the issues discussed relate to its field of operations. | Jul 19 02:15 |
| splosion | red hat. top 500. nice work | Jul 19 02:15 |
| schestowitz | He can't sue as it would ruin him, on top of already libeling me | Jul 19 02:15 |
| schestowitz | He uses lawsuit threat as manipulation/intimidation tool. | Jul 19 02:15 |
| splosion | schestowitz: good luck. although hope it doesn't come to that. I called the guy a cunt on my blog. tell him to sue me instead | Jul 19 02:16 |
| schestowitz | splosion: he curses everyone | Jul 19 02:16 |
| schestowitz | I think it's an attudinal issue | Jul 19 02:16 |
| splosion | yes I saw | Jul 19 02:16 |
| schestowitz | I wish his luck with his health.. mental health | Jul 19 02:16 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe he has comments-tourettes | Jul 19 02:16 |
| schestowitz | I never saw that dispue betwen him and FInk | Jul 19 02:17 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if he abused him too like he abuses everyone | Jul 19 02:17 |
| schestowitz | That would explain the person snitching to his employer | Jul 19 02:17 |
| schestowitz | David tried to blame it on me LOL | Jul 19 02:17 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna try to disable plugins now | Jul 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | Then slide in the new files, then handle the plugins again | Jul 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | The issue I fear is that comments will flatted | Jul 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | flatten | Jul 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | One of the plguins tends to do it when I test it | Jul 19 02:18 |
| schestowitz | I might try to leave it enabled | Jul 19 02:18 |
| splosion | ThistleWeb: I swear all the time. I have an attitude problem, fo sho. If I think someone is a tosser, then I'll just bloody well say so. what I don't do, however, is threaten people with lawsuits over it. wtf man? something crawled up that guy's arse and died a long, long time ago | Jul 19 02:19 |
| ThistleWeb | I swear a lot too, I have no probs with peeps swearing; the key is context. | Jul 19 02:20 |
| splosion | I guess so | Jul 19 02:20 |
| ThistleWeb | a word is just a word | Jul 19 02:20 |
| foul words are not simply words - the taboo does things to your head and it has been proven experimentally to act as a pain killer. | Jul 19 02:22 | |
| a torrent of foulness will create stress in the recipient | Jul 19 02:22 | |
| ThistleWeb | lol twitter | Jul 19 02:22 |
| ThistleWeb | you are an endless source of amusement | Jul 19 02:23 |
| splosion | no, that's actually true | Jul 19 02:23 |
| splosion | another fact is that swear-words weren't invented till immediately after the shin-level table (commonly known as a coffee table nowadays) was invented | Jul 19 02:24 |
| ThistleWeb | if that's a result of a study, again I point to context | Jul 19 02:24 |
| http://www.courant.com/features/hc-humor-shea0718.artjul18,0,3151637.column | Jul 19 02:25 | |
| ThistleWeb | a string of swear words in a comedy routine is different to a string of swear words being shouted by some looney in the street | Jul 19 02:25 |
| ThistleWeb | some peeps are more indoctrinated to react to swearing too | Jul 19 02:26 |
| splosion | True. the thing is, swearing is unnecessary by definition. that's what makes it so delicious | Jul 19 02:26 |
| *seller_liar (i=c92bce91@gateway/web/freenode/x-2c30510530819210) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 02:26 | |
| the reaction, at some level, is the same | Jul 19 02:27 | |
| the article I found is not the best write up. | Jul 19 02:27 | |
| ThistleWeb | it is usefull for emphasising stuff but is often overused, or used by peeps who have no comprehension of the meaning.....most common being "that's gay" | Jul 19 02:27 |
| ThistleWeb | technically not swearing now I think about it lol | Jul 19 02:28 |
| seller_liar | for example , voting posts is used by trolls to destroy credibility | Jul 19 02:28 |
| seller_liar | cola guide about trolls is very good, but we need some updates | Jul 19 02:28 |
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| splosion | hey schestowitz, have you ever written a BN article about Ed Curry? | Jul 19 02:29 |
| schestowitz | No | Jul 19 02:29 |
| better article http://www.news-medical.net/news/20090716/Ease-that-pain-by-swearing!.aspx | Jul 19 02:29 | |
| schestowitz | Good news | Jul 19 02:30 |
| schestowitz | Updrage was successful this time, at first sight | Jul 19 02:30 |
| seller_liar | greengeek cites another attack trolls too :http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/18/abuse-and-intimidation-from-trolls/ | Jul 19 02:30 |
| seller_liar | we need to put these strategies in "common troll tactics" | Jul 19 02:30 |
| splosion | it's one of those things that's been swept under the rug. it's a shame. If it wasn't for archive.org, a lot of the information about it all wouldn't exist any more. I should write about it some time | Jul 19 02:30 |
| taboo words should be avoided because they manipulate people in a powerful way | Jul 19 02:31 | |
| ThistleWeb | yep, the old self censorship and sticking-your-fingers-in-your-ears style....classic | Jul 19 02:32 |
| ThistleWeb | meanwhile, back in the real world | Jul 19 02:32 |
| -> 64 volunteers who were asked to submerge their hand in a tub of freezing water for as long as possible while repeating a swear word of their choice. The experiment was then repeated, this time using a more commonplace, neutral word which they might use to describe a table and the researchers found, despite their initial expectations, that the volunteers were able to keep their hands plunged in the ice water for a longer period | Jul 19 02:32 | |
| *somecoward has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Jul 19 02:33 | |
| -> On average, the students were able to tolerate the pain for nearly two minutes when swearing, compared with only one minute and 15 seconds when they refrained from using expletives | Jul 19 02:33 | |
| seller_liar | hey twitter , can you update "common troll tactics" ? | Jul 19 02:35 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: could wordpress be tweaked to block certain users from voting comments and articles while allowing others to vote | Jul 19 02:35 |
| where is the article common troll tactics ? | Jul 19 02:35 | |
| ThistleWeb | that'd anny the MS shills | Jul 19 02:35 |
| ThistleWeb | annoy* | Jul 19 02:36 |
| seller_liar | wait | Jul 19 02:36 |
| seller_liar | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Common_Troll_Tactics | Jul 19 02:37 |
| seller_liar | cola troll tactics is a bit outdated | Jul 19 02:37 |
| schestowitz | Yes! :-) (to self | Jul 19 02:37 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: bring it up to date as you see suitable :-) | Jul 19 02:37 |
| schestowitz | I'm managing to maintain comment structure as I upgrade WP | Jul 19 02:37 |
| seller_liar | the " new" trolls have find new ways to disrupt information | Jul 19 02:38 |
| schestowitz | SO we'll evolve | Jul 19 02:38 |
| seller_liar | Like "low voting" and other things | Jul 19 02:38 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: I can disable comment voting | Jul 19 02:38 |
| schestowitz | Or limit it | Jul 19 02:38 |
| seller_liar | I 'm not specialist in troll tactics | Jul 19 02:38 |
| schestowitz | brb | Jul 19 02:38 |
| schestowitz | let me finish upgrading | Jul 19 02:38 |
| seller_liar | yes but in slashdot alot of trroll use low voting | Jul 19 02:38 |
| ThistleWeb | another way would be to disable voting for everyone apart from a few trusted admins, then let them read the comments and vote as they see fit | Jul 19 02:39 |
| splosion | I don't really pay any attention to the voting system, though. Do many people? It isn't as if low-rated comments are hidden | Jul 19 02:40 |
| seller_liar | yes, I know , but we need to put in "common troll tactics" | Jul 19 02:40 |
| ThistleWeb | splosion: I don't either | Jul 19 02:41 |
| splosion | be careful with censorship, though. Don't let the place become an echo chamber. I detest censorship, but I agree the trolling on the recent articles is rather absurd | Jul 19 02:41 |
| ThistleWeb | another way to look at it, is that because of the astroturfers tactics, usually a comment which is voted down has more truth to it | Jul 19 02:41 |
| splosion | I see that too | Jul 19 02:41 |
| ThistleWeb | to try and discredit it | Jul 19 02:42 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, having admins doing the voting does mean censorship, I thought about that after I suggested it myself. It's not an ideal suggestion | Jul 19 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | even if it is censorship for a good cause. "good" is subjective | Jul 19 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | it's also what EVERYONE who practces it claims | Jul 19 02:44 |
| splosion | I saw a comment on reddit about Mono and patents which was pretty good. He listed a few of the threats, and said, "You can mod me down if any of this is true." Knowing full well that the downvoters know it's true, and they don't like people drawing attention to it | Jul 19 02:44 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jul 19 02:44 |
| seller_liar | grey geek explain another troll tactic | Jul 19 02:47 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 19 02:47 | |
| seller_liar | I have a suggestion. Allowing these MS shills to share the same threads as civil folks gives them too much front page space. That is precisely how they hijacked Canopus. Just like DELL and the other PC OEMs were/are forced to keep hardware featuring Linux to back pages or face get their “air supply cut off” by Microsoft not funding ad revenues, you should move obvious TE posts to another page, | Jul 19 02:47 |
| splosion | http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8zt90/mono_microsoft_community_promise_inadequate_says/c0ayl3y here | Jul 19 02:47 |
| seller_liar | troll posts a lot do disrupt ads | Jul 19 02:48 |
| splosion | If it were my decision, I'd have a script that replaces the contents of the shill comments with "I AM COLOSSAL FAGGOT btw my IP address is 79.129.250.52" Or at least append it on to the end of each comment. | Jul 19 02:51 |
| schestowitz | splosion: watch your language, please | Jul 19 02:51 |
| splosion | sorry | Jul 19 02:51 |
| schestowitz | You're hurting our cause | Jul 19 02:52 |
| splosion | luckily for you it's not up to me | Jul 19 02:52 |
| schestowitz | Thanks for the understanding | Jul 19 02:52 |
| cubezzz | I've been watching microsoft for a long time | Jul 19 02:52 |
| cubezzz | I know what they're like | Jul 19 02:53 |
| seller_liar | another troll tactic is the use of sterotypes | Jul 19 02:53 |
| seller_liar | for example linux = communism | Jul 19 02:53 |
| schestowitz | OK, all my plugins are enabled now | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | This is brilliant. It ssems as though with 12 or so plugins we made a non-lossy upgrade and everything is compatible after I fetched some plugin updates | Jul 19 02:54 |
| cubezzz | I'm a bit worried that all the linux pda's seemed to have disappeared :-/ | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Just Linux? :-) | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Look at WIndows | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | PDAs die | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | There are surveys that show this | Jul 19 02:54 |
| tessier | cubezzz: PDA's in general have disappeared. Replaced by smart phones, iphones, etc. | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Since 2006 | Jul 19 02:54 |
| schestowitz | phones vs pda | Jul 19 02:55 |
| schestowitz | Smartphones rather | Jul 19 02:55 |
| tessier | There never really were many Linux PDA's anyway. | Jul 19 02:55 |
| cubezzz | that's true | Jul 19 02:55 |
| tessier | Palm never made one. The Pre is too little too late. | Jul 19 02:55 |
| tessier | iPhone kicked their ass. | Jul 19 02:55 |
| schestowitz | Dell killed its windows PDAs in 2007 IIRC | Jul 19 02:55 |
| tessier | I don't even run the Palm mailing list anymore. | Jul 19 02:55 |
| schestowitz | And it was among the last out there | Jul 19 02:55 |
| tessier | It got hosed up and I never fixed it. | Jul 19 02:55 |
| cubezzz | I guess everyone wants a cell phone? NOT :) | Jul 19 02:55 |
| cubezzz | at least I don't | Jul 19 02:56 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I used to doa lot in Palm USNET NGs | Jul 19 02:56 |
| schestowitz | Including stats | Jul 19 02:56 |
| schestowitz | But I quit around 2007 | Jul 19 02:56 |
| schestowitz | Lack of interest.. not just me | Jul 19 02:56 |
| schestowitz | My Palm still works well with jpilot on Linux | Jul 19 02:56 |
| cubezzz | yeah there's lots of iphones around, seemingly | Jul 19 02:57 |
| schestowitz | twitter: thanks for the edits | Jul 19 02:58 |
| cubezzz | I just want a small pda to program on | Jul 19 02:58 |
| no problem, it is soothing. | Jul 19 02:58 | |
| splosion | hrmm, the formatting is a bit strange on the common troll tactics wiki | Jul 19 03:01 |
| cubezzz | Nokia N800 looks interesting | Jul 19 03:05 |
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| Edgar | I just did further research, it appears that software patents slow down innovation :| | Jul 19 03:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | slow down? | Jul 19 03:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | dude, it kills it | Jul 19 03:17 |
| Edgar | yes | Jul 19 03:18 |
| seller_liar | another ideea is create a chronological line of bad history of microsoft | Jul 19 03:18 |
| cubezzz | I thought microsoft was bad in the windows 2.0 days :) | Jul 19 03:19 |
| seller_liar | yes , but using a chronlogical line is very good to document facts | Jul 19 03:19 |
| cubezzz | in fact I was surprised it took over the way it did | Jul 19 03:19 |
| seller_liar | and then , people will adding more and more information in chronological line | Jul 19 03:20 |
| seller_liar | facts like obama presentation using silverblight, steve "egg" ballmer and others | Jul 19 03:20 |
| cubezzz | I got something you might be interested in: | Jul 19 03:21 |
| cubezzz | http://maxhost.org/cubeman/ms_dirtytricks.txt | Jul 19 03:21 |
| seller_liar | put in the wiki | Jul 19 03:21 |
| schestowitz | Hi, Edgar | Jul 19 03:21 |
| schestowitz | Any new links? | Jul 19 03:21 |
| seller_liar | mediawiki have a plugin for drawing chronological lines? | Jul 19 03:22 |
| schestowitz | Maybe | Jul 19 03:22 |
| cubezzz | Amiga should have won | Jul 19 03:22 |
| schestowitz | I have mediawiki access issues today... their site isn't functioning | Jul 19 03:22 |
| seller_liar | no problem roy , This is only ideas.There's no need to put ideas in action now | Jul 19 03:23 |
| cubezzz | I was looking for some vid of Bill Gates at the doj trial but I couldn't find anything | Jul 19 03:23 |
| cubezzz | anyway, most people know MS = bad :) | Jul 19 03:25 |
| seller_liar | another idea is put status of mono infection in distros | Jul 19 03:25 |
| seller_liar | for example list the number of mono packages each distro have | Jul 19 03:25 |
| seller_liar | and put some history about mono infections | Jul 19 03:26 |
| Edgar | hmmm... i wonder though | Jul 19 03:27 |
| Edgar | Is mac really a threat? I was just reading that cubezzz but, didn't Microsoft help apple once? :/ | Jul 19 03:28 |
| cubezzz | Edgar: yes, microsoft gave apple a lot of money | Jul 19 03:28 |
| cubezzz | for stock I think | Jul 19 03:28 |
| Edgar | yes | Jul 19 03:28 |
| schestowitz | Apple and Microsoft work together in areas | Jul 19 03:29 |
| schestowitz | OOXML for example | Jul 19 03:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | dont go trying to say apple is in microsoft's pocket | Jul 19 03:29 |
| cubezzz | mac isn't that good !=FOSS | Jul 19 03:29 |
| Edgar | >_> | Jul 19 03:29 |
| schestowitz | Apple likes software patents and DRM... media format and stuff... | Jul 19 03:29 |
| Edgar | Hmm | Jul 19 03:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple and microsoft just have a long and complex history together | Jul 19 03:29 |
| schestowitz | YEs | Jul 19 03:29 |
| Edgar | I wasn't suggesting that (yet) >_> I was just getting suspicious and haven't really found anything on the web about why MS would support apple :/ | Jul 19 03:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | Edgar: historical reasons | Jul 19 03:30 |
| cubezzz | cover all the bases | Jul 19 03:30 |
| cubezzz | get money from every platform | Jul 19 03:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft was started as a company to produce software for apple platforms | Jul 19 03:30 |
| Edgar | hm | Jul 19 03:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | bill gates for a very short time was an apple employee | Jul 19 03:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | but bill and steve's egos cant both fit in the same room at the same time | Jul 19 03:31 |
| Edgar | LOL | Jul 19 03:31 |
| cubezzz | well, altair was the start :) | Jul 19 03:31 |
| schestowitz | I'd have to check what's new in WordPress 2.8 | Jul 19 03:32 |
| cubezzz | BASIC for Altair | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | bill promised apple software, however | Jul 19 03:32 |
| schestowitz | I hardly see any differences | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | eventually they did get that | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | such as msie and office | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | but apple is very much independant | Jul 19 03:32 |
| schestowitz | I'm also installing new software on it | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | I also believe apple is an important allie to have | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | they are pro foss | Jul 19 03:32 |
| cubezzz | well, at least it avoids total mono-culture | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | being pro foss doesnt mean you're anti closed source | Jul 19 03:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: heeeeeee mono culture | Jul 19 03:32 |
| cubezzz | so we have windows, mac and Linux | Jul 19 03:33 |
| cubezzz | I paid for my Amiga 500 rom willingly :) | Jul 19 03:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | but yeah | Jul 19 03:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple contributes a lot to foss | Jul 19 03:34 |
| seller_liar | apple is not friend of opensource | Jul 19 03:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: thats not true at all | Jul 19 03:35 |
| seller_liar | if someday apple need to destroy foss, it will | Jul 19 03:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | of course | Jul 19 03:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | but thats the day after microsoft closes it's doors forever | Jul 19 03:36 |
| seller_liar | apple uses exclusive tactives to use only apple 's equipment | Jul 19 03:36 |
| cubezzz | was BSD before Linux? | Jul 19 03:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: yes | Jul 19 03:36 |
| seller_liar | drm , block iphone | Jul 19 03:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple does contribute back to many foss projects | Jul 19 03:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | they also run many of their own | Jul 19 03:37 |
| seller_liar | this is a trues anti-competitive and anti-cooperative tactic | Jul 19 03:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: not at all | Jul 19 03:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple just retains control over their own platform | Jul 19 03:37 |
| cubezzz | interesting that Linux caught on more that BSD | Jul 19 03:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | they dont try to destroy other platforms | Jul 19 03:37 |
| seller_liar | apple blocks itunes for every mobile device | Jul 19 03:37 |
| cubezzz | that=than | Jul 19 03:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: erm, most commercial unixes are derived from either bsd or the original at&t unix | Jul 19 03:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: because itunes is their platform | Jul 19 03:38 |
| seller_liar | apple is not different than microsoft | Jul 19 03:38 |
| cubezzz | surely apple is a _bit_ less evil :) | Jul 19 03:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple is very different than microsoft: apple actually has a hardware platform people want to buy | Jul 19 03:38 |
| seller_liar | closed platform ,closed software and everythinf]g | Jul 19 03:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | not closed at all | Jul 19 03:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | please, a tad less fud | Jul 19 03:39 |
| seller_liar | this is not a progress , this is helping apple to gain more power and give more powers to proprietary hardware and software | Jul 19 03:39 |
| cubezzz | when did bsd go open, or was it always open? | Jul 19 03:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: it was always open | Jul 19 03:40 |
| cubezzz | aha | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the first bsd had the bsd license | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | the four clause version, but one nonetheless | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: btw, thats not true | Jul 19 03:40 |
| seller_liar | if apple gain more power, then apple can destroy every company of world | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: nothing apple has unique hardware anymore | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Edgar | no | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | they no longer use PPC for their desktops and laptops and server | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | its generic x86 now | Jul 19 03:40 |
| cubezzz | all the way back to 1977? | Jul 19 03:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: yup | Jul 19 03:40 |
| cubezzz | wow | Jul 19 03:40 |
| seller_liar | because only apple knows about the hardware ,software can run only in apple hardware | Jul 19 03:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: so? | Jul 19 03:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, the iphone is not unique, android phones are built basically the same way | Jul 19 03:41 |
| seller_liar | yes ,they use x86 , but blocks all software using drm | Jul 19 03:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a generic embedded arm setup with some nifty chips plugged in and a multitouch screen | Jul 19 03:41 |
| seller_liar | and if people tries to block , apple call DMCA to destroy competition | Jul 19 03:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: where are you getting this DRM shit? | Jul 19 03:41 |
| seller_liar | block = unblock | Jul 19 03:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | the OSX on non-apple hardware check is a) very easy to remove, b) not DRM | Jul 19 03:42 |
| seller_liar | apple forbids unsigned iphone apps | Jul 19 03:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple can forbid unsigned iphone apps and effect no one | Jul 19 03:42 |
| seller_liar | apple tries to block unsigned hardware used in imac | Jul 19 03:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | its _their_ platform | Jul 19 03:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have a right to make sure everything on their platform meets a minimum of awesomeness | Jul 19 03:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats their entire selling point, they _should_ protect it | Jul 19 03:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im surprised they dont also do it for osx | Jul 19 03:43 |
| seller_liar | yes | Jul 19 03:44 |
| seller_liar | People should not use iphone os | Jul 19 03:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you dont like how apple does it, then DONT USE IT | Jul 19 03:44 |
| seller_liar | it's better to use another os | Jul 19 03:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple _doesnt_ try to destroy other platforms | Jul 19 03:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact, they do much to enhance them | Jul 19 03:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple's fundamental strategy works different than microsoft | Jul 19 03:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | steve jobs is the world's greatest salesman, bill gates is the world's greatest businessman | Jul 19 03:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | bill goes around and makes sure microsoft is your only choice by buying out or destroying the competition.... | Jul 19 03:45 |
| cubezzz | hmmm | Jul 19 03:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | steve just convinces you apple is the only choice and leaves everyone else alone | Jul 19 03:45 |
| ThistleWeb | apple enhances other platforms? like the palm pre with it's itunes support? | Jul 19 03:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: webkit, for one | Jul 19 03:46 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess removing itunes is "enhancing" to some | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Edgar | >_> | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no, the palm pre hacked itunes support | Jul 19 03:46 |
| ThistleWeb | ahh yes khtml | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple never supported the plam pre | Jul 19 03:46 |
| ThistleWeb | you said they enhanced | Jul 19 03:46 |
| ThistleWeb | not supported | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: they didnt enhance the palm pre | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | palm did | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple didnt like it | Jul 19 03:46 |
| ThistleWeb | they intentionally broke the palm pre itunes support | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Edgar | i don't like the iphone or the ipod, i'd prefer a cowon, or iaudio, or something else >_> iphone, i just don't care for it | Jul 19 03:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | they intentionally fixed a bug. | Jul 19 03:47 |
| ThistleWeb | is that aople enhancing? | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Aondo | i think what apple is doing with the osx stuff isnt too bad for foss community, even tho it's not ideal, what i mean is that i think it's good with more competition with each other, and with the windows systems. | Jul 19 03:47 |
| seller_liar | apple uses the power of foss to gain more power in proprietary platform | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | if palm wanted itunes support, they very much could have gotten it | Jul 19 03:47 |
| ThistleWeb | yes, the bug was that a non-apple hardware could use itunes | Jul 19 03:47 |
| seller_liar | webkit, cups and others are only to help apple in proprietary application | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Aondo | the more people use different system, the better it is for open standards, and free software with it | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | they never will now, however | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: what I dont get though | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | is why palm cared about itunes | Jul 19 03:47 |
| ThistleWeb | when palm find a patch for it, apple will break it again as they always do | Jul 19 03:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | itunes isnt exactly that great of a music player interface | Jul 19 03:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and itunes is no longer drm, so the palm can play back AAC files anyhow | Jul 19 03:48 |
| seller_liar | it's not just forbids the user to do anything with iphone | Jul 19 03:48 |
| ThistleWeb | it's only a bug if you buy the fantasy PR line Apple spin | Jul 19 03:48 |
| ThistleWeb | the rest of us see it for what it is | Jul 19 03:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: its a bug... itunes detected a non-ipod device as an ipod | Jul 19 03:48 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3 itunes doesnt have water marks either? | Jul 19 03:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: it does, but it doesnt effect playback | Jul 19 03:48 |
| Aondo | ok | Jul 19 03:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres no longer any DRM on new itunes files | Jul 19 03:49 |
| seller_liar | apple products are anti-ethical | Jul 19 03:49 |
| ThistleWeb | so requiring itunes to sync is not DRN? | Jul 19 03:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: huh? | Jul 19 03:49 |
| ThistleWeb | DRM* | Jul 19 03:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | you drag and drop files | Jul 19 03:49 |
| seller_liar | tries to gain money stealing "rights from people" | Jul 19 03:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | you plug any music player in, and it appears as a USB Mass Storage device | Jul 19 03:50 |
| ThistleWeb | your controlling what apps a user can use to sync with the device | Jul 19 03:50 |
| cubezzz | I think puretracks still has drm, so there's still some drm music | Jul 19 03:50 |
| seller_liar | and uses opensource like "free work" | Jul 19 03:50 |
| ThistleWeb | rather than letting them chose their own | Jul 19 03:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | you drag the files from your itunes library to your device | Jul 19 03:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: but why is palm allowing people to use itunes? | Jul 19 03:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not a good app, there are better | Jul 19 03:50 |
| ThistleWeb | so why wont apple let people use the better apps? | Jul 19 03:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: huh? | Jul 19 03:51 |
| ThistleWeb | it's DRM.....about control | Jul 19 03:51 |
| seller_liar | buying iphone you help a company to control our society | Jul 19 03:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: wtf are you talking about? | Jul 19 03:51 |
| ThistleWeb | there are better apps than itunes | Jul 19 03:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: I can take a song I bought off itunes and play it ANYWHERE | Jul 19 03:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple doesnt stop me | Jul 19 03:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | they removed drm for their entire library | Jul 19 03:52 |
| ThistleWeb | yet apple will keep modifying their stuff when any other app works with their hardware to force people into using THEIR software | Jul 19 03:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: .... | Jul 19 03:52 |
| ThistleWeb | this is DRM | Jul 19 03:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | no its not | Jul 19 03:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | DRM is a software mechanism to manage rights of a data file. | Jul 19 03:52 |
| cubezzz | ok, can a linux user use itunes? | Jul 19 03:52 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple (the rights holder) is restricting the user's choice of apps | Jul 19 03:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the songs? yes. | Jul 19 03:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the software? doesnt work right in wine yet | Jul 19 03:52 |
| *cubezzz nods | Jul 19 03:53 | |
| seller_liar | no | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: yes, they're restricting itunes sync with apple players | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: they're _not_ restricting itunes usage by itself | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Edgar | >_> seller_liar | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Edgar | you mean | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Edgar | UNETHICAL | Jul 19 03:53 |
| ThistleWeb | when it gets close to working in wine, do you think Apple will change the habit of a lifetime and let it pass? | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Aondo | can a gnu/linux user, use itunes with free software, only? - i like this question better :D | Jul 19 03:53 |
| *Edgar slaps seller_liar! D: | Jul 19 03:53 | |
| Edgar | LEARN TO SPELL D: | Jul 19 03:53 |
| ThistleWeb | or will there be another "bug fix" which changes it | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Edgar | wait you spelled it right | Jul 19 03:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: not yet, but theres other music stores too | Jul 19 03:53 |
| *Edgar facepalms | Jul 19 03:53 | |
| Diablo-D3 | amazon works entirely through firefox | Jul 19 03:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | and the files arent drmed, they're normal mp3s | Jul 19 03:54 |
| cubezzz | I'm using puretracks in Canada currently | Jul 19 03:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're not bad quality either | Jul 19 03:54 |
| oiaohm | Two major methods. | Jul 19 03:54 |
| oiaohm | DRM or Watermark. | Jul 19 03:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | watermarking is totally okay | Jul 19 03:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | it identifies who the file was sold to | Jul 19 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Personally I prefer Watermarking. | Jul 19 03:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | watermarking can be done in ways that have nothing to do with the audio stream | Jul 19 03:55 |
| oiaohm | It only really targets thoses who do wrong. | Jul 19 03:55 |
| *ugufjhfj has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jul 19 03:55 | |
| oiaohm | Strongest for tracking are embeded in the stream. | Jul 19 03:55 |
| seller_liar | sorry edgar | Jul 19 03:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | everyones like OH LOL THEY MIX SHIT IN THAT SOUNDS LIKE NOISE BUT BLAH BLAH BLAH | Jul 19 03:56 |
| Aondo | oiaohm, so if you "hack" my system and get my files, water marking will help punish you? | Jul 19 03:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, its just an idv3 tag most of the time | Jul 19 03:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: no, it'd prove you're intp piracy | Jul 19 03:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | why would you let anyone steal your shit? | Jul 19 03:56 |
| oiaohm | I have used watermarking in business printers to track person who printered files. | Jul 19 03:56 |
| cubezzz | ok, you bought the cd, it got stratched up, then you download a replacment ... :-0 | Jul 19 03:57 |
| oiaohm | To find who was leaking information. | Jul 19 03:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: why are you using the original? | Jul 19 03:57 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, well.. nothing on internet is 100% safe, so if someone copies my files, without my permission.. i would get the blame most likely | Jul 19 03:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: and you should get the blame | Jul 19 03:57 |
| cubezzz | Diablo-D3, I'm not, just a hypothetical there | Jul 19 03:57 |
| oiaohm | It tells were the leak is. | Jul 19 03:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: yes, you can buy another copy. | Jul 19 03:57 |
| ThistleWeb | Aondo: relax, Apple ain't very letigious ROFL | Jul 19 03:57 |
| Aondo | :) | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | you _can_ 'pirate' another copy legally, btw | Jul 19 03:58 |
| oiaohm | Would you not want to know that you had a information leaking Aondo? | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not piracy since you own a license | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | but heres the fun part | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | just dont use the original | Jul 19 03:58 |
| cubezzz | ah :) | Jul 19 03:58 |
| ThistleWeb | or dont buy from itunes | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | all the CDs I own I rip then put on the shelf never to be touched again | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Edgar | I hate DRM | Jul 19 03:58 |
| Aondo | oiaohm, i guess i would, but to be honest i'm not sure how the process would be, if i got contacted becaus my watermarked files got spread around :P | Jul 19 03:59 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, so do Apple (if you buy the PR) | Jul 19 03:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know whats wrong with the whole FOSS movement? | Jul 19 03:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | you have people who are very most honestly out of their fucking minds | Jul 19 03:59 |
| ThistleWeb | except they dont count all the vendor lockin as DRM | Jul 19 03:59 |
| Edgar | >_> | Jul 19 03:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | "EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE! MONEY IS EVIL! SHARE EVERYTHING!" | Jul 19 03:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | Well guess what guys, the world isn't a giant commune. | Jul 19 04:00 |
| Edgar | Yeah, that is silly... | Jul 19 04:00 |
| cubezzz | what, we got Stallman, he's pretty normal, what are you talking about :) | Jul 19 04:00 |
| Edgar | Free as in freedom, not free beer :/ | Jul 19 04:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | Quit being fucking hippies, get out of your mom's basement, and get a fucking job. | Jul 19 04:00 |
| seller_liar | share knowledge must be permitted | Jul 19 04:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | Apple has a right to do whatever they fucking want | Jul 19 04:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | No one is putting a gun to your head to do business with them | Jul 19 04:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're not the only mass retailer of music | Jul 19 04:00 |
| cubezzz | that's true | Jul 19 04:01 |
| seller_liar | if you won t share ,simple don t tell to anyone | Jul 19 04:01 |
| Edgar | Hmm, the thing that bothers me about the freedom idea is how do you make money from that :/ | Jul 19 04:01 |
| ThistleWeb | Diablo-D3: yep, thats the capitalist spirit, go Madoff....he had the right to do whatever he wanted right? | Jul 19 04:01 |
| cubezzz | there are ways to make money | Jul 19 04:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | ThistleWeb: less trolling, kthx | Jul 19 04:01 |
| ThistleWeb | laws only count if you're the one making them | Jul 19 04:01 |
| oiaohm | Thing is Aondo if you are not gulity of being the pirate you would have a thief stealing stuff from you. So would be interested to find out who because they most likely nicked other things from you as well. | Jul 19 04:01 |
| cubezzz | even Stallman needs _some_ money | Jul 19 04:02 |
| seller_liar | you don t need make money from software | Jul 19 04:02 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully not credit cards Aondo | Jul 19 04:02 |
| cubezzz | I've made money from Linux installs and Linux laptops | Jul 19 04:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, Aondo, if someone is leeching shit from you and did so without permission, file a police report | Jul 19 04:02 |
| Aondo | oiaohm, i dont see it as stealing tho | Jul 19 04:02 |
| Edgar | I always wondered how stallman lives his life :/ | Jul 19 04:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | they dont have to do anything, just let you file it | Jul 19 04:02 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, i'm just asking, since i dont know what the copyright owner would really do, if they found traces of anybodies watermarked files | Jul 19 04:03 |
| seller_liar | proprietary software cannot live because it steals knowledge | Jul 19 04:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: bitch loudly | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is why you need the police report | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Edgar | >_> 1.) Most people don't look at the source code, they don't steal knowledge, the issues I see (Atm) are patents and innovation being slowed down or killed by that :/ | Jul 19 04:04 |
| seller_liar | for example , you cannot do a clone of windows even if you prove you do everything alone | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Aondo | so should i file a report, for them copying some files, getting into my system... or both? :) | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: not true | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can do a clean room impl of windowsd | Jul 19 04:04 |
| cubezzz | in Canada the police wouldn't do anything about file sharing I don't think | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: both | Jul 19 04:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: the cops dont have to actually do any work, just let you file the report | Jul 19 04:05 |
| oiaohm | Wrong cubezzz | Jul 19 04:05 |
| seller_liar | innovation is not important | Jul 19 04:05 |
| oiaohm | It depends on what is being shared. | Jul 19 04:05 |
| seller_liar | Diablo-D3: you can use windows logo? | Jul 19 04:05 |
| Edgar | :/ | Jul 19 04:05 |
| cubezzz | cite a court case then | Jul 19 04:05 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, so if i dont file any report at all, becaus i didnt know or whatever reason.. i am to blame, without anyother proof? in the eyes of the copyright holder i mean. | Jul 19 04:05 |
| *Edgar brain implodes unto itself from what seller_liar just said. | Jul 19 04:05 | |
| seller_liar | innovation is not important | Jul 19 04:06 |
| *Edgar brain implodes unto itself from what seller_liar just said. | Jul 19 04:06 | |
| oiaohm | Aondo: files you don't create you are basically the care taker for. | Jul 19 04:06 |
| seller_liar | ethics is the most important thing of world | Jul 19 04:06 |
| cubezzz | well, maybe if someone was file sharing the windows source code that would get them in trouble | Jul 19 04:06 |
| schestowitz | Climate Follies: Bankrolling Dirty Power in Developing Countries http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010145.html | Jul 19 04:06 |
| cubezzz | but music sharing? | Jul 19 04:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: if you leave your door unlocked and someone steals your shit, yes, its your fault | Jul 19 04:06 |
| oiaohm | So Aondo if they get stolen from you and you don't report it. It is still you problem. | Jul 19 04:06 |
| seller_liar | innovation can destroy the society | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: having a file server that is directly accessible from the net is the same thing as having an unlocked door | Jul 19 04:07 |
| *Edgar brain implodes unto itself from what seller_liar just said. | Jul 19 04:07 | |
| seller_liar | innovation is only a tool | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Aondo | oiaohm i'm sorry, stolen? you dont steal files, you copy them. | Jul 19 04:07 |
| seller_liar | the society does not need new tools | Jul 19 04:07 |
| seller_liar | the society need ethics | Jul 19 04:07 |
| ThistleWeb | the "locking your door" analogy only applies when the regular Joe has the IT skillz of a pro | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only thing DRM did for music is force the player to also have a valid copy of the license | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | it actually protected you legally | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | no one could steal your music | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, you can allways break a locked door | Jul 19 04:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | they could take the file, but the license is still yours | Jul 19 04:08 |
| oiaohm | Steal is someone breaking you password and downloading them without you permission. Not exactly just coping Aondo | Jul 19 04:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | now that DRM is basically dead, its up to _you_ to enforce that only you use your license | Jul 19 04:08 |
| Aondo | heck... i've seen people go thrue the roof.. to get stuff :P | Jul 19 04:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | with power comes responsibility | Jul 19 04:08 |
| oiaohm | Exactly someone nicks your computer with other peoples copyrighted works on it you should report it. | Jul 19 04:09 |
| oiaohm | By reporting what has happened its not your legal problem any more. | Jul 19 04:09 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, DRM isnt dead in my country thought, i have a hard time playing some dvds.. havent even tried the bluerays :P | Jul 19 04:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: region locking is basically dead | Jul 19 04:10 |
| cubezzz | yeah, I wouldn't say DRM is totally dead | Jul 19 04:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | and theres no region locked blurays yet | Jul 19 04:10 |
| Edgar | Blurays do have DRM though | Jul 19 04:10 |
| oiaohm | Region locking is illegal in australia. | Jul 19 04:10 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, i'm talking crypting.. and decrypting. | Jul 19 04:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | blurays have drm, this is true | Jul 19 04:10 |
| oiaohm | Bluray copy protection has not been tested in a court of law. | Jul 19 04:10 |
| Edgar | which is why linux can't play them too well yet ftrom what I Read | Jul 19 04:10 |
| oiaohm | Linux can play them Edgar | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Edgar | ALthough it has been cracked | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | dvd drm is dead though | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | has been for years | Jul 19 04:11 |
| oiaohm | But is evil. | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Edgar | I Said not too well | Jul 19 04:11 |
| oiaohm | Windows Bluray play program in wine. | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: thats shitty since I only use mplayer | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | mplayer can decrypt some blurays | Jul 19 04:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | but nothing with newer keys | Jul 19 04:11 |
| oiaohm | Some blurays are not DRMed. | Jul 19 04:12 |
| Aondo | not an ideal thing, to fight with drm, just to have some fun with a movie | Jul 19 04:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | I actually wish they'd just have a java program that does the crypt | Jul 19 04:12 |
| oiaohm | I wish it was required to label what ones are and are not. | Jul 19 04:12 |
| Edgar | i find i funny the more the industry uses DRM the more people fight back | Jul 19 04:12 |
| Edgar | and the more they lose D: | Jul 19 04:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | bd+ encryption would be easily faked with a virtual machine | Jul 19 04:12 |
| Aondo | Edgar you mean the industry lose? | Jul 19 04:13 |
| oiaohm | They don't really lose that is the problem Edgar | Jul 19 04:13 |
| oiaohm | People still buy releated products. | Jul 19 04:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually they did lose | Jul 19 04:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | I buy and play dvds on linux :D | Jul 19 04:13 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3 you are not needed to use any special libs to do so? :P | Jul 19 04:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | nope | Jul 19 04:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont need decss anymore, its built into mplayer now | Jul 19 04:14 |
| Aondo | so if i gave you any movie from lets say disney... you would have no problem playing it. without any special libs to do some decrypting? | Jul 19 04:14 |
| Edgar | Another thing, I Know some people who really don't give a damn about DRM and are completely ALOOF to it c_C; its the only thing that bothers me though ONLY THING | Jul 19 04:14 |
| cubezzz | hmm, I think Sony did some weird stuff with DVDs | Jul 19 04:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | Aondo: I have potc on dvd, Ive watched it on my computer | Jul 19 04:14 |
| cubezzz | VHS had macrovision | Jul 19 04:15 |
| Aondo | Diablo-D3, i've seen many dvds on my box too, but never without libs... well except big buck bunny and a few other | Jul 19 04:15 |
| schestowitz | OK, two more blogs (WP) upgraded succuessfully | Jul 19 04:15 |
| oiaohm | macrovision tech is still used to block recording out of some dvd players. | Jul 19 04:15 |
| seller_liar | The only thing I know is | Jul 19 04:16 |
| seller_liar | Apple and microsoft try to gain monopoly | Jul 19 04:16 |
| seller_liar | apple uses restrictions and microsoft uses destruction | Jul 19 04:16 |
| oiaohm | Apple is interesting. | Jul 19 04:17 |
| seller_liar | apple and microsoft are not different | Jul 19 04:17 |
| oiaohm | Apple was one of the first to offer water marked files with DRM ones. | Jul 19 04:17 |
| oiaohm | With a price difference. | Jul 19 04:17 |
| seller_liar | both companies have evil Inside | Jul 19 04:17 |
| Aondo | seller_liar, not gonna protest on you there :D but i think and hope, that the bigger apple and the foss community gets the more people demand open standards worldwide | Jul 19 04:17 |
| ThistleWeb | MS at least dont control the hardware (aside from bullying vendors) | Jul 19 04:17 |
| schestowitz | The personal blog has just been updated too. All that's required now is that I go around the panels, pages, categories, etc etc and check that everything is in tact. It's not possible to check every page individually, but by checking a large number of pages one gets a sample of whether there is any bug as the result of the upgrade or not. Is there anything to automate it? | Jul 19 04:18 |
| seller_liar | but use power to destroy competition | Jul 19 04:18 |
| seller_liar | open standards is different of free software | Jul 19 04:18 |
| schestowitz | It's always hard to knock what to you systematically | Jul 19 04:18 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple control both the hardware and software on their platforms, which makes it easy for them to restrict, with no excuses when stuff don't "just work" | Jul 19 04:18 |
| seller_liar | we need free software and open standards , | Jul 19 04:18 |
| schestowitz | I',m going to bed now. If anyone spot something funny in BN, please holler :-D | Jul 19 04:18 |
| seller_liar | open standards only is not enough | Jul 19 04:19 |
| Aondo | seller_liar, yes, but with open standards, free software lives easier | Jul 19 04:19 |
| ThistleWeb | cya schestowitz | Jul 19 04:19 |
| schestowitz | Let's see if mediawiki can be patched too | Jul 19 04:19 |
| seller_liar | bye roy | Jul 19 04:19 |
| schestowitz | Media wiki svn has been down since the morning | Jul 19 04:20 |
| oiaohm | Openstandards allow open source and free software to interface. | Jul 19 04:20 |
| wallclimber | good night all...it's been interesting | Jul 19 04:20 |
| Aondo | :) | Jul 19 04:20 |
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| oiaohm | I am not foolish enough to say there is no place for closed source.. | Jul 19 04:21 |
| oiaohm | There is a place for all types of software. | Jul 19 04:21 |
| oiaohm | We just need a fair competition system. | Jul 19 04:21 |
| ThistleWeb | you mean stuff that works and stuff that dont? | Jul 19 04:21 |
| ThistleWeb | :P | Jul 19 04:21 |
| oiaohm | Every thing should have a fair chance of working. | Jul 19 04:21 |
| oiaohm | So that groups with poor programmers or software quality get a chance to die. | Jul 19 04:22 |
| seller_liar | but we need more free software than proprietary software in a proportion of 80-20 | Jul 19 04:22 |
| oiaohm | I set no percentages. | Jul 19 04:22 |
| oiaohm | If 100 percent proprietary using company can interface with a 100 percent open source using company without issues I would be happy. | Jul 19 04:23 |
| oiaohm | Then people can freely choose the tools they want to use. | Jul 19 04:24 |
| Aondo | non freesoftware will probably lag behind unless the adept to a faster moving community | Jul 19 04:24 |
| oiaohm | I am about freedom in real meaning of the word. | Jul 19 04:25 |
| oiaohm | Anything that is restricting a persons freedom to make selections is not good. | Jul 19 04:25 |
| Aondo | oiaohm, i find it quite ironic that in the "land of the free" people needs to be reminded that free software means freedom | Jul 19 04:26 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly. | Jul 19 04:26 |
| oiaohm | Open standards without restrictions of like patents. Gives freedom. | Jul 19 04:27 |
| tessier | schestowitz: /home is 99% full | Jul 19 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Free software without open standards can be basically useless. | Jul 19 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Defacto standards is one of the biggest undermines to freedom. | Jul 19 04:28 |
| Aondo | atleast i hope my bed is free at this hour. and not taken | Jul 19 04:28 |
| Aondo | oiaohm, agreed, but isnt that kind of standard maybe not becaus it was there first | Jul 19 04:29 |
| oiaohm | .doc defecto standard for word processing was not the first document format. | Jul 19 04:30 |
| tessier | Word Perfect was quite popular in business before MS Word. It was the first de-facto word processor document format. | Jul 19 04:31 |
| cubezzz | no one remembers wordstar? :) | Jul 19 04:31 |
| oiaohm | Most defacto standards are not documented . | Jul 19 04:31 |
| tessier | I do | Jul 19 04:31 |
| oiaohm | So other people cannot created competing programs that work perfectly. | Jul 19 04:31 |
| Aondo | maybe "first" is the wrong way to put it hehe | Jul 19 04:31 |
| oiaohm | PDF is an example of a true standard. | Jul 19 04:32 |
| oiaohm | Adobe released all the information to make clone programs. | Jul 19 04:32 |
| tessier | Can we now use the PDF's with form fields and everything in them? | Jul 19 04:32 |
| oiaohm | Reason why Linux has like 6 different pdf readers. | Jul 19 04:32 |
| oiaohm | PDF format is fully openly documented tessier | Jul 19 04:32 |
| tessier | So the answer is yes? | Jul 19 04:33 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Jul 19 04:33 |
| oiaohm | Catch is very few programs implement all the features PDF offers. | Jul 19 04:33 |
| tessier | Cool. It is a common enough ploy to release specs from one version ago but make the current software use the new format. | Jul 19 04:33 |
| tessier | So they can say they opened up the standard but not lose their sales. | Jul 19 04:34 |
| oiaohm | Adobe when they do it they do it right. | Jul 19 04:34 |
| oiaohm | Every new version causes new docs to be released if they are doing a open standard. | Jul 19 04:34 |
| tessier | Cool | Jul 19 04:34 |
| oiaohm | Reason Adobe wanted archives on side. | Jul 19 04:34 |
| oiaohm | Sun and Adobe both have released standard correctly. | Jul 19 04:35 |
| Aondo | didnt okolar get some opposition becaus they follows the pdf format to allow drm? | Jul 19 04:35 |
| Aondo | i think it is a interesting situation, beeing against drm, but for open standards :D | Jul 19 04:37 |
| oiaohm | Using pdf spec sheets you have to agree not to break copy protection method included. | Jul 19 04:37 |
| oiaohm | Really cheep price for patent protection from adobe on your implementation. | Jul 19 04:38 |
| Aondo | i guess the situation would not be so interesting, if everyone was for sharing information. wouldnt really need copy protection then. | Jul 19 04:39 |
| schestowitz | tessier: oops | Jul 19 04:39 |
| schestowitz | I'll delete many backups | Jul 19 04:40 |
| oiaohm | Business need secrets Aondo | Jul 19 04:41 |
| schestowitz | tessier: OK now? | Jul 19 04:41 |
| tessier | GPG is for secrets | Jul 19 04:41 |
| schestowitz | I'd delete more if needed | Jul 19 04:42 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Yep! Looks good. | Jul 19 04:42 |
| tessier | Not that I need the disk space, I just don't want it to cause the site an error if it reaches 100% | Jul 19 04:42 |
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| Lefty | Well, hi. | Jul 19 05:51 |
| Lefty | I see Roy's doesn't like playing catcher. | Jul 19 05:52 |
| Edgar | ... | Jul 19 05:53 |
| Edgar | :/ Microsoft has a patent on double clicking, and sudo... | Jul 19 05:53 |
| Lefty | You folks enjoy this place while yo can. | Jul 19 05:53 |
| Edgar | WTF? | Jul 19 05:53 |
| Lefty | Roy's made charges of criminal activity against my employer, I doubt they're going to like that much. | Jul 19 05:54 |
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| Lefty | It's too bad he doesn't have a lawyer, he could really use one. | Jul 19 05:54 |
| ThistleWeb | Lefty: thanks | Jul 19 05:55 |
| Lefty | Happy to help. =D | Jul 19 05:55 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm just in the mood to have a laugh at some tosser | Jul 19 05:55 |
| ThistleWeb | it's almost like you heard my plea | Jul 19 05:55 |
| Lefty | Laugh it up. Roy knows I'm not kidding around. | Jul 19 05:55 |
| ThistleWeb | and arrived to answer the call | Jul 19 05:55 |
| Lefty | He's already admitted to libeling me. | Jul 19 05:55 |
| ThistleWeb | we're giving you the respect you deserve | Jul 19 05:55 |
| Lefty | Posted a full retraction and an apology, did he tell you _that_? | Jul 19 05:55 |
| Lefty | I only care about respect from people _I_ respect. | Jul 19 05:56 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jul 19 05:56 |
| ThistleWeb | funny that | Jul 19 05:56 |
| Muttley | so how do you register to leave comments on the site? | Jul 19 05:57 |
| Lefty | Any of you folks go to GCDS...? | Jul 19 05:57 |
| Lefty | You can't apparently, it seems to be half-broken. I've got no problem at all with registering. | Jul 19 05:57 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder how many hours astroturfing overtime Lefty will put in talking in this channel is nobody responds to him | Jul 19 05:57 |
| Lefty | Aww. :'( | Jul 19 05:58 |
| Lefty | Are you sticking your fingers in your ears, going "Lalalalalalala"? | Jul 19 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Basically yes. | Jul 19 05:58 |
| Lefty | Believe me, I don't get paid for this. Roy volunteered to be my hobby. | Jul 19 05:59 |
| Muttley | just wanted to point out that Banshee and F-Spot wont depend on moonlight | Jul 19 05:59 |
| Lefty | Knock yourselves out. | Jul 19 05:59 |
| Lefty | How's that gonna work, Muttley? | Jul 19 05:59 |
| ThistleWeb | "believe me" and you work for MS yes? | Jul 19 05:59 |
| Muttley | Lefty: how do you mean? | Jul 19 06:00 |
| ThistleWeb | the mafia have more honour than MS | Jul 19 06:00 |
| Lefty | Aaron's clearly not taking Mono out of Banshee. Since you folks don't go to conferences, and don't know folks like Aaron, you're pretty much in the dark, aren't you? | Jul 19 06:00 |
| ThistleWeb | I'd believe them before I'd believe MS | Jul 19 06:00 |
| Lefty | Do you guys check under the bed for Microsoft before you can go to sleep? | Jul 19 06:00 |
| Muttley | Lefty: eh? | Jul 19 06:00 |
| Lefty | Oh, Moonlight. Sorry, Muttley, thought I saw "Mono". | Jul 19 06:01 |
| oiaohm | I have been around too long. I have seen the java media players and torrent download programs come and go. | Jul 19 06:01 |
| Muttley | is this knee jerk reaction channel or something? | Jul 19 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Banshee and F-Spot will go the same path. | Jul 19 06:01 |
| Lefty | I don't think ThistleWeb has ever actually met anyone from the Mafia. | Jul 19 06:01 |
| oiaohm | .net has not cured the defects in java design. | Jul 19 06:02 |
| Muttley | oiaohm: I was just commenting on a quote from the website that was taken from someone who was quite wrong | Jul 19 06:02 |
| Lefty | Did you just have a knee-jerk reaction, Muttley...? | Jul 19 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Sands of time are moving on. | Jul 19 06:03 |
| Muttley | Lefty: seems that no matter what I say I get pounced on by either side of the fence ;) | Jul 19 06:03 |
| oiaohm | That is what is wrong with MS bottom line at the moment. | Jul 19 06:03 |
| Lefty | It's the Internet. That's how it works. | Jul 19 06:03 |
| Muttley | yeah | Jul 19 06:03 |
| oiaohm | I remember when Visual basic was ment to be the savour to programming. | Jul 19 06:05 |
| Lefty | BASIC is an ugly language. | Jul 19 06:06 |
| oiaohm | After a while it becomes simple to spot what languages truly do have staying power and what ones are just a temporarly distubance. | Jul 19 06:06 |
| oiaohm | So is .net | Jul 19 06:06 |
| Muttley | are you applying for the job of old wise man? | Jul 19 06:07 |
| oiaohm | The job I have is because I am basically that. | Jul 19 06:07 |
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| oiaohm | I have seen enough of computer history to pick the paths that will last. | Jul 19 06:08 |
| Muttley | you a cobol programmer? ;) | Jul 19 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Never was. | Jul 19 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Same error as cobol as well does .net have. | Jul 19 06:09 |
| oiaohm | The more you create a language split away from the OS it running on the worse its performance becomes. | Jul 19 06:10 |
| oiaohm | Its a simple case that people are repeating the mistakes of history. | Jul 19 06:13 |
| oiaohm | Funny thing is going to be that the next version of MS office is going to have a online version ad funded. | Jul 19 06:24 |
| oiaohm | That could cause a nasty problem why buy MS office when you can test if document renders right on line. | Jul 19 06:24 |
| Muttley | I'd imagine they'd still make a lot of money from businesses | Jul 19 06:25 |
| oiaohm | Thinking if the forcasts are right 2010 are going to be another shocker as a nother 10 trillion dollars disappears out the system. | Jul 19 06:27 |
| oiaohm | Businesses most likely will be looking to take the cheepest path. | Jul 19 06:28 |
| oiaohm | Stick with what they have and use the online tool for conversion. | Jul 19 06:28 |
| oiaohm | That is what is so fun at the moment. The worse of the storm cause by all the bad debts out there has not even hit yet. | Jul 19 06:32 |
| Muttley | unfortuantely I've known a number of people in control of the IT budget who seem to think that you always must have the "latest and greatest" no matter how much advice he ignores from his employees | Jul 19 06:33 |
| Muttley | at my last job getting anything for my php team was always a struggle. but the .NET team had insane amounts of money thrown at it | Jul 19 06:33 |
| oiaohm | And I know many of them who have ended up out of business recently to there shock horrior. | Jul 19 06:34 |
| Muttley | yeah, that company had to close down the IT department in the UK and off shore it to SA | Jul 19 06:34 |
| Muttley | though they did keep the manager | Jul 19 06:34 |
| oiaohm | My job is basically building solutions to cost and maintainable. | Jul 19 06:34 |
| Muttley | he got moved over the SA to manage the new IT department | Jul 19 06:35 |
| Muttley | which is why they now have they php website running off an ISS server | Jul 19 06:35 |
| oiaohm | O well. | Jul 19 06:35 |
| oiaohm | Time will catch up with him. | Jul 19 06:36 |
| Muttley | unfortuantely the company makes quite a bit of cash so he'll get to continue throwing it away for a while longer | Jul 19 06:36 |
| Muttley | but I don't mind | Jul 19 06:37 |
| Muttley | my replacement quit and so they offered me a freelance job to do php stuff and a ridiculous rate | Jul 19 06:37 |
| Muttley | so I get to sit on a beach in malaysia earning more money an hour than I did when I sat in an office in London | Jul 19 06:38 |
| oiaohm | See time looked after you. | Jul 19 06:39 |
| oiaohm | People who do the right things normally get looked after in the end. | Jul 19 06:40 |
| Muttley | but if he'd taken my advice I'd be worse off today ;) | Jul 19 06:43 |
| Muttley | is that Karma? | Jul 19 06:43 |
| Muttley | :) | Jul 19 06:43 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Jul 19 06:44 |
| oiaohm | You might have ended up premoted. | Jul 19 06:44 |
| oiaohm | Telling what would have happened of someone did something different is hard. | Jul 19 06:44 |
| Muttley | only place I could go from the position I had was to become a project manager and I like coding too much | Jul 19 06:45 |
| oiaohm | They company could have grown as well more due to less overheads. | Jul 19 06:46 |
| oiaohm | This is why its very had to tell Muttley | Jul 19 06:47 |
| Muttley | well we were growing, the trouble is the government made one of our cash cows illegal | Jul 19 06:50 |
| Muttley | management collectively shat themselves and in a huge knee jerk reaction closed down 4 departments and sent them back to South Africa | Jul 19 06:51 |
| Muttley | stupid thing is the next year the government eased the restrictions | Jul 19 06:51 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem with cash cows. Most of them end up with goverments messing with them. | Jul 19 06:51 |
| oiaohm | Most of my job is creating stuff that does not cause huge profit but is repeatable profit. Custom hardware Custom software combinations.... | Jul 19 06:53 |
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| Muttley | cool | Jul 19 06:59 |
| ***twitter notices and ignores Lefty troll | Jul 19 06:59 | |
| Muttley | ***Muttley notices twitter and laughs ;) | Jul 19 06:59 |
| Muttley | oiaohm: I gotta get back to a proper job once I finish bumming around asia | Jul 19 07:00 |
| Guy is a M$ user. Lefty is supposed to be a Mac user. Sheesh, trolls pretending to be other trolls. | Jul 19 07:00 | |
| oiaohm | Its the internet twitter | Jul 19 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Anyone can be anyone. | Jul 19 07:02 |
| Muttley | I'm Spartacus! | Jul 19 07:02 |
| HivenGlaven | whats a troll ? | Jul 19 07:03 |
| ThistleWeb | tonight Mathew I'd like to be the Sugar Plum Fairy | Jul 19 07:04 |
| oiaohm | Heck you see trolls pretending to be roy | Jul 19 07:04 |
| Muttley | HivenGlaven: anyone who you don't agree with | Jul 19 07:04 |
| HivenGlaven | I thought by twitters comment it was a mac or M$ user | Jul 19 07:04 |
| http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_troll | Jul 19 07:05 | |
| oiaohm | I am a little tigher on term that that. | Jul 19 07:06 |
| oiaohm | troll is someone who always turns up to cause trouble and changes the ID to make there argument look better. | Jul 19 07:06 |
| ThistleWeb | there are peeps who seem to have trolls on the mind, and are always just a sentence away from accusing someone | Jul 19 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Or to hide the fact they are only turning up to cause trouble. | Jul 19 07:06 |
| http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Common_Troll_Tactics | Jul 19 07:07 | |
| HivenGlaven | by that definition no one here is a troll. but whatever. | Jul 19 07:08 |
| Muttley | do people really say "OH PULEEEZE!" ? | Jul 19 07:08 |
| http://catb.org/jargon/html/T/troll.html | Jul 19 07:10 | |
| http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+lefty&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | Jul 19 07:10 | |
| oiaohm | Yes we have had some that do say that line Muttley | Jul 19 07:13 |
| http://catb.org/jargon/html/T/Troll-O-Meter.html | Jul 19 07:13 | |
| HivenGlaven | in 1970 they used to say that !! | Jul 19 07:13 |
| oiaohm | Only 3 months ago by the way Muttley | Jul 19 07:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | eh, more like the 80s | Jul 19 07:14 |
| Muttley | oiaohm: fair enough | Jul 19 07:14 |
| Muttley | next they'll be saying "Talk to the hand!" and "Whateva!" :) | Jul 19 07:14 |
| oiaohm | Whateva was once in the last month. | Jul 19 07:15 |
| oiaohm | I have not see Talk to the hand yet. | Jul 19 07:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | ooh, I wonder if fake tatoos are en vogue again | Jul 19 07:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually, I wonder if saying en vogue is en vogue again | Jul 19 07:15 |
| http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/holy-wars.html OMG, OMG, it's rape! | Jul 19 07:16 | |
| Muttley | Diablo-D3: I had a henna tattoo last week, does that count? | Jul 19 07:16 |
| oiaohm | That is the other thing about trolls lot of them try to take termlogy to try to blend in. Problem is its normally completely out of date and just looks strange. | Jul 19 07:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | I guess if I wait long enough everything comes back in | Jul 19 07:17 |
| HivenGlaven | did you get it in a gum pack, did you have to lick it and press it onto your arm ? | Jul 19 07:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, TMNT are back in | Jul 19 07:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're using the old 80s molds for the toys | Jul 19 07:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | (the same ones I owned as a kid) | Jul 19 07:17 |
| Muttley | Diablo-D3: I'm waiting for the day i can dust off those flares ;) | Jul 19 07:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they're making that gi joe movie | Jul 19 07:17 |
| HivenGlaven | dont forget the safari suit | Jul 19 07:18 |
| Muttley | Diablo-D3: yeah, since transformers every 80s toy is getting a movie | Jul 19 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | transformers kinda sucks now | Jul 19 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | they've _been_ printing the old molds forever | Jul 19 07:18 |
| Muttley | I'm waiting my My Little Pony 2: Revenge of the Sugar Cube | Jul 19 07:18 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Jul 19 07:18 | |
| Diablo-D3 | some they cant print anymore because they destroyed the mold through overuse and dont have a replica | Jul 19 07:18 |
| http://bayimg.com/oAegoAABO | Jul 19 07:19 | |
| Diablo-D3 | (some later issues of said toys you can really tell they should have stopped, especially with heads) | Jul 19 07:19 |
| http://bayimg.com/gAjiJaABP | Jul 19 07:19 | |
| not a press on. | Jul 19 07:19 | |
| Muttley | twitter: that guy with the zune one looks quite ashamed | Jul 19 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only thing that sucks is the new transformers for the movie | Jul 19 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're... not transformers | Jul 19 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | they'd actually be better off as expensive statues stuck in an action pose | Jul 19 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | (which they have too) | Jul 19 07:20 |
| oiaohm | The more you look for history repeating the more you see it. | Jul 19 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | see, what we need is a saturday day cartoon | Jul 19 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | about FOSS people | Jul 19 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | with some sort of power rangers tie in | Jul 19 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | RMS can be the green ranger | Jul 19 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | where he promotes legal pot usage | Jul 19 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | s/saturday day/saturday morning/ | Jul 19 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | linus can be the red ranger, etc etc | Jul 19 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they take on microsoft every week | Jul 19 07:22 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and their giant robot recieves upgrades via them coding out new shit | Jul 19 07:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | eventually, by the end of the series, it turns into some insane monster that eventually destroys the world x_x | Jul 19 07:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | moral of the story: dont let them near giant robots | Jul 19 07:24 |
| oiaohm | That is kinda too late. | Jul 19 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | kids dont watch saturday morning cartoons anymore | Jul 19 07:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wonder when that ended | Jul 19 07:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | not only is my childhood dead, they killed it brutally | Jul 19 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | and then they piss on it's grave every few years | Jul 19 07:28 |
| HivenGlaven | about the same time as flairs went out | Jul 19 07:29 |
| HivenGlaven | and disco | Jul 19 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats the 70s! | Jul 19 07:30 |
| HivenGlaven | and when they stopped running the phantom agents | Jul 19 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im thinking like the late 90s | Jul 19 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | afternoon cartoons were still strong | Jul 19 07:30 |
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| Muttley | hmm, wonder if next Zend Studio will support bzr | Jul 19 07:37 |
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| _Goblin | morning all..... | Jul 19 08:31 |
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| ziggyfish | good afternoon all | Jul 19 08:42 |
| ziggyfish | quick question, has MS released their Q4 financial reports yet? | Jul 19 08:43 |
| ziggyfish | will be interesting to see the numbers | Jul 19 08:44 |
| oiaohm | Not yet ziggyfish | Jul 19 08:46 |
| ziggyfish | found the answer to my next question <http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/default.mspx> | Jul 19 08:47 |
| ziggyfish | when will they | Jul 19 08:48 |
| ziggyfish | Q4 – Thursday, July 23 | Jul 19 08:48 |
| oiaohm | Yep should be this week if its not shocking bad. | Jul 19 08:49 |
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| ziggyfish | I think it will be (seen the numbers from the Q1-3) | Jul 19 08:50 |
| ziggyfish | http://www.google.com/finance?fstype=ci&q=NASDAQ:MSFT | Jul 19 08:53 |
| schestowitz | Morning... | Jul 19 08:55 |
| schestowitz | I see that David's here | Jul 19 08:56 |
| schestowitz | Yo, David | Jul 19 08:56 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Listening to FLOSS weekly ep 77 http://twit.tv/floss77 | Jul 19 09:13 | |
| notzed | morning. i presume the new registration stuff isn't completley functional yet? | Jul 19 09:14 |
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| Muttley | heh, chinese whispers are great | Jul 19 09:20 |
| Muttley | "Banshee and F-Spot to depend on Moonlight" | Jul 19 09:20 |
| Muttley | not quite :) | Jul 19 09:21 |
| schestowitz | Not really | Jul 19 09:21 |
| schestowitz | They reuse code AFAIK | Jul 19 09:21 |
| schestowitz | Media controls | Jul 19 09:22 |
| schestowitz | It's indicative of convergence | Jul 19 09:22 |
| Muttley | f-spot will depend on banshee | Jul 19 09:22 |
| schestowitz | For example, Banshee can be made to have a feature of playing Silverlight content offline | Jul 19 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Which in turn means Microsoft codecs and other non-ECMA stuff...not to mention API concessions | Jul 19 09:22 |
| Muttley | that's not depending though | Jul 19 09:22 |
| schestowitz | Muttley: really? | Jul 19 09:23 |
| schestowitz | Any link about that? | Jul 19 09:23 |
| Muttley | http://download.banshee-project.org/documents/banshee-gcds-09.pdf | Jul 19 09:23 |
| schestowitz | That would force Ubuntu, for example, to adopt more Mono applications with non-ECMA stuff | Jul 19 09:23 |
| Muttley | that's the pdf that was read by mono-nono and reported, then was rereported by http://mether.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/banshee-and-f-spot-to-depend-on-moonlight/ | Jul 19 09:24 |
| schestowitz | http://robertmh.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/disappointed/ | Jul 19 09:24 |
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| Muttley | in reality banshe is becoming a platform with client UIs. | Jul 19 09:24 |
| Muttley | they are planning a moonlight based UI | Jul 19 09:24 |
| Muttley | then they're going to put photo management into the banshee platform so that f-spot becomes a client ui and can focus more on the image manipulation aspects over image management | Jul 19 09:26 |
| Muttley | which as an f-spot and banshee user I kinda like | Jul 19 09:26 |
| Muttley | wonder if that means they'll do a totem client for it | Jul 19 09:27 |
| Muttley | though I'm all for "managing" my photos and music but I've never really got into doing it for videos | Jul 19 09:28 |
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| Muttley | I think because I tend to delete videos when I've watched them rather than keeping a big library | Jul 19 09:29 |
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| Edgar | Hmm | Jul 19 09:31 |
| schestowitz | Hey, Edgar | Jul 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | What's up? | Jul 19 09:36 |
| schestowitz | I'm doing COmes at the moment | Jul 19 09:37 |
| Edgar | Hmm, just reading the gnome Mono deal on the site... | Jul 19 09:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Product Manager: “Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let’s move on and steal the Java language.” http://ping.fm/yoJjy | Jul 19 09:50 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Microsoft Product Dies as the Company Prepares for Horrible Financial Results http://ping.fm/qdxEo | Jul 19 10:43 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Launchpad opensourcing delayed http://ping.fm/Q8Hzw It has taken them years already. But they support AGPLv3 IIRC | Jul 19 10:47 | |
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| schestowitz | Oops. I hadn't realised registration was disabled in BN. Try now (For creating an account) http://boycottnovell.com/wp-login.php | Jul 19 11:11 |
| oiaohm | Nice upgrade opps.. | Jul 19 11:12 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jul 19 11:13 |
| schestowitz | We used to have spam registrations, so I disabled it like a year ago | Jul 19 11:13 |
| schestowitz | Now that I set it to require login to comment I didn't think registration was disabled | Jul 19 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Its still a opps. | Jul 19 11:14 |
| oiaohm | No where as bad as forgetting to start squid with all web traffic routed to it. | Jul 19 11:14 |
| schestowitz | Media Wiki svn still not working right (downtimes for downloads).. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite/Cite.php#Installation | Jul 19 11:16 |
| schestowitz | I ought to post some Linux news. Not much news in general this week... | Jul 19 11:16 |
| *amarsh04_ finally managed to get ipv6 working | Jul 19 11:17 | |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: it must be hard. 80,000 MS employees can't do it (like the lightbulb thing) | Jul 19 11:17 |
| amarsh04_ | linux for aircraft: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.boot-loaders.grub.bugs/7150 | Jul 19 11:19 |
| amarsh04_ | my isp is fairly ipv6-savvy: http://ipv6.internode.on.net/ | Jul 19 11:21 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why a GNU/Linux Revolution is 'Dangerous' http://ping.fm/unMBw | Jul 19 11:36 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's Entry into Desktop GNU/Linux Market Can Affect Businesses http://ping.fm/XRH8p | Jul 19 11:39 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Illustration of the Ease of GNU/Linux Printing http://ping.fm/PKE8V | Jul 19 11:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mesa 7.5 is Released http://ping.fm/5d0ed | Jul 19 11:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wne 1.1.26 is Released http://ping.fm/fJGKc | Jul 19 11:44 | |
| fewa | 1 thing, Google's OS might actually not be GNU/Linux | Jul 19 11:50 |
| fewa | its might be Android/Linux | Jul 19 11:50 |
| fewa | with their own wierd libc and such | Jul 19 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jul 19 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Linux kernel | Jul 19 11:52 |
| schestowitz | GPLv2 | Jul 19 11:52 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi oiaohm | Jul 19 11:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Offers iTunes Replacement to Palm Pre Users ttp://practical-tech.com/entertainment/an-open-alternative-for-palm-pre-itunes-users/ | Jul 19 11:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Wolvix 2.0 (Secon Beta) http://ping.fm/DImG2 | Jul 19 12:00 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Christian Edition 5.0 and Ubuntu 8.04.3 Are Released http://ping.fm/jjWe7 http://ping.fm/4mXrH | Jul 19 12:01 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Palm Gets the Needed Lift from Linux, SDK Coming http://ping.fm/WkdeX | Jul 19 12:06 | |
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| schestowitz | Hi, jose | Jul 19 12:08 |
| jose | schestowitz, hi.. why are comments disabled? | Jul 19 12:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Quick Review of the GNU/Linux-based Jolicloud OS http://ping.fm/vNgQc | Jul 19 12:09 | |
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| schestowitz | jose: not disabled | Jul 19 12:10 |
| schestowitz | You just need to create a user account on the site | Jul 19 12:10 |
| schestowitz | Then you can also comment quicklt | Jul 19 12:10 |
| jose | You must be logged in to post a comment | Jul 19 12:10 |
| schestowitz | There was a flood of trolls | Jul 19 12:10 |
| jose | ok, .. i thought i created an account by my email is not registered.. i'll repeat | Jul 19 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Including the anti-BN sites gaming and flooding it with rubbish on purpose | Jul 19 12:11 |
| schestowitz | The trolling not only ruined the comments sections but the trolling also slowed down the site | Jul 19 12:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More On-board Linux Partnerships http://ping.fm/46fQN | Jul 19 12:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Quits the ARM Race Before It's Even Released http://ping.fm/1DQD5 | Jul 19 12:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] NPR Chooses Free Software http://ping.fm/kTHpQ | Jul 19 12:17 | |
| fewa | thats whole article is full of MS confusing WIndows and "PC" | Jul 19 12:19 |
| fewa | on purpose | Jul 19 12:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vanity Stickers for GNU/Linux and Free Software http://ping.fm/v1Jaf | Jul 19 12:19 | |
| schestowitz | PC=windows, no? :-) | Jul 19 12:19 |
| schestowitz | You go the shop and WIndows is part of all the computers | Jul 19 12:19 |
| Muttley | arg, stupid watchguard piece of crap | Jul 19 12:20 |
| schestowitz | And if Linux is sold in Wal-mart, then like a mafia-gangster operating, Microsott pressurebullies them (document) | Jul 19 12:20 |
| fewa | its trying to change history to make it seem like tying is OK | Jul 19 12:20 |
| Muttley | 2 hours of bashing my head against the wall as to why I couldn't access the wordpress svn server | Jul 19 12:20 |
| schestowitz | fewa: if users are left choice | Jul 19 12:20 |
| schestowitz | fewa: the svn at mediawiki is still down | Jul 19 12:21 |
| schestowitz | Muttley: maybe related? | Jul 19 12:21 |
| schestowitz | svn server at mediawiki down since yesterday morning | Jul 19 12:21 |
| Muttley | schestowitz: nah, because I just logged off of the company vpn and it worked fine | Jul 19 12:22 |
| Muttley | I stuck one of the more obscure error messages into google and got 3 pages, one with a guy saying the watchguard box he has blocked svn over http for some reason | Jul 19 12:22 |
| Muttley | that's a pita | Jul 19 12:23 |
| Muttley | wonder if I can come up with a work related reason why I need that unblocked | Jul 19 12:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Research organisation National ICT Australia Releases Free Software http://ping.fm/edTX6 | Jul 19 12:25 | |
| Muttley | ahh, seems to be the PROPFIND http request type it doens't like | Jul 19 12:27 |
| Muttley | because it's not in HTTP 1.1 RFC 2616 spec. damn these people and their standards ;) | Jul 19 12:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox About to Exceed 1,000,000,000 Downloads http://ping.fm/K0ILI | Jul 19 12:30 | |
| fewa | ughh ping has to use http meta redirections instead of doing it the right way with 301 moved temporarily | Jul 19 12:31 |
| fewa | it it cause they want to extract information off of your browser? | Jul 19 12:31 |
| fewa | nah | Jul 19 12:32 |
| fewa | they must just be not thinking | Jul 19 12:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Interview with MariaDB Founder (the New Better MySQL) http://ping.fm/ibTGR | Jul 19 12:32 | |
| fewa | or maybe this way it shows up in http referel logs | Jul 19 12:32 |
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| Tallken | does anyone know who is the Twitter account "wd7", alias windows7 ? | Jul 19 12:35 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know | Jul 19 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Could be many thing | Jul 19 13:03 |
| schestowitz | W-E, TE, usefulidiots | Jul 19 13:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Swindle Shows the Harms of DRM http://ping.fm/45atM | Jul 19 13:08 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Associated Press Shows Its Sheer Hypocrisy http://ping.fm/2900S | Jul 19 13:10 | |
| Tallken | he subscribed after I mentioned I might put Windows in a VM and use Linux as sole OS xD | Jul 19 13:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono -- Like Microsoft -- Resorts to Gagging Critics http://ping.fm/Vvl2P | Jul 19 13:19 | |
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| oiaohm | Nicta has a good video but I have no way to get it as ogg. | Jul 19 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Yeah... well, they try | Jul 19 13:43 |
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| jose | interesting the cricket AP misuse | Jul 19 13:54 |
| schestowitz | This is funny. Using the big bang to market religion... craft deception.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP6ZiQ9oq94&feature=related | Jul 19 13:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] personally I think of librarians as quiet unassuming rabid perverts, but maybe that's just me http://catandgirl.com/?p=2115 | Jul 19 13:59 | |
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| fewa | "Reason three: Opt-out is not acceptable | Jul 19 14:18 |
| fewa | “Opt-out” is not the equal opposite of “opt-in”. Anyone who suggests that is trying to sell you something. “Just opt-out if you don’t like it” is the argument of telemarketers and spammers the world over. Team Mono is trying to put users of other distributions in the “opt-out” position, and that is not right. | Jul 19 14:18 |
| fewa | Those same people who would figuratively spit on a spammer for using the “opt-out” argument will gladly turn around and tell you “It’s easy to remove mono if you don’t like it, so just shut up”, and never see the contradiction. | Jul 19 14:18 |
| fewa | Consider this: I am not opposed to the very idea of inclusion of mono and mono apps in the repositories." | Jul 19 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Consider this lot of people would prefer not to have mono by default. | Jul 19 14:19 |
| fewa | thats the most important thing in the whole debate | Jul 19 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Once you have installed it you might be caught up in libablity from it. | Jul 19 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Anything that is questionable state should have a option of user not having it. | Jul 19 14:21 |
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| oiaohm | MS does it with a lot of codecs. | Jul 19 14:21 |
| _Hicham_ | we need codecs too in Linux | Jul 19 14:22 |
| _Hicham_ | and thanks to GStreamer, we can have legal codecs | Jul 19 14:22 |
| _Hicham_ | and illegal ones also | Jul 19 14:23 |
| oiaohm | User deserves the right to choose anything risky. | Jul 19 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Also deserves the right not to have it pushed on them. | Jul 19 14:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the awful truth about mothers and coffee http://is.gd/1EcR2 it's all true! it's all true! | Jul 19 14:24 | |
| _Hicham_ | what i want to see is some apps for linux developed by microsoft | Jul 19 14:30 |
| _Hicham_ | for example, Internet Explorer for Linux | Jul 19 14:31 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not that hard since there is Internet Explorer for Mac | Jul 19 14:31 |
| _Hicham_ | also Microsoft Office for Linux | Jul 19 14:31 |
| _Hicham_ | without Emulation | Jul 19 14:31 |
| _Hicham_ | and from Microsoft website | Jul 19 14:31 |
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| _Hicham_ | set up in online repositories | Jul 19 14:32 |
| _Hicham_ | and following GNU guidelines | Jul 19 14:32 |
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| _Hicham_ | that would be a big victory for linux | Jul 19 14:32 |
| desu | i'd still not touch those things even with a 9001 meter long pole. | Jul 19 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | its over nine thousand! | Jul 19 14:33 |
| desu | microsoft doing stuff for linux would be too suspicious... | Jul 19 14:33 |
| *desu slaps Diablo-D3 8999 times | Jul 19 14:33 | |
| desu | under nine tousand :P | Jul 19 14:33 |
| desu | *thousand | Jul 19 14:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/07/ms_02.jpg | Jul 19 14:41 |
| HivenGlaven | davidgerard are you saying to give up coffee or to give up sex :( | Jul 19 14:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] software is not "engineered", it's "craftsmanship"; control is ultimately illusory on software development projects. http://is.gd/1EdJi | Jul 19 14:46 | |
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| splosion | gosh. Pete's going to get flames for this one http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?p=566&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 | Jul 19 15:06 |
| trmanco | http://www.openstickers.com/ | Jul 19 15:10 |
| trmanco | http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10013233o-2000440676b,00.htm | Jul 19 15:13 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Ukraine’s GNU/Linux Ambitions and Microsoft’s MOU Response http://ping.fm/rttRP | Jul 19 15:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ubuntu 9.04 Snaps Desktop Visaster: http://is.gd/1EeVD | Jul 19 15:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Amazon says it won't repeat Kindle book recall: http://is.gd/1EeYd | Jul 19 15:15 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] now your car can take the piss: http://is.gd/1Eff5 | Jul 19 15:22 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Microsoft Popfly - RIP.....Another #Microsoft product bites the dust. I wonder if Redmond is looking forward to Thursday and its Q4 figures? | Jul 19 15:30 | |
| fewa | youtube has started redirecting to login prompts when they decide you are not giving them enough information | Jul 19 15:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Still testing #!CBL 9.04.01 - giving it the family test, lets see what damage they can do to the distro. #linux | Jul 19 15:36 | |
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| schestowitz | _goblin is being harsh. Oh hum... | Jul 19 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | wallclimber: I might do the next exhibit in the evening. We got to the point where I've almost finished one important set of docs. | Jul 19 15:58 |
| wallclimber | good morning! | Jul 19 15:59 |
| wallclimber | How many more sets are there? | Jul 19 15:59 |
| wallclimber | that need working on, that is | Jul 19 16:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes.. | Jul 19 16:00 |
| schestowitz | Hold on... | Jul 19 16:00 |
| schestowitz | Heh. I think I showed you this one: http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-microsoft/2009-exhibits/PX_9729.pdf :-D | Jul 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | It's the XP launch | Jul 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | But nothing good in there. Just worth filing sensibly for indexing purposes | Jul 19 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Actually, I'll do so now | Jul 19 16:01 |
| Lefty | Hi, Roy! | Jul 19 16:05 |
| schestowitz | Hey David. | Jul 19 16:05 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Launch_ceremony_of_Windows_XP stil cleaning up a bit | Jul 19 16:05 |
| Lefty | So, you do understand that as a director of ACCESS and a member of the LiMo ASC I have to bring your charges to the attention of their respective legal departments tomorrow. | Jul 19 16:06 |
| wallclimber | I wonder why it was part of the exhibits...wouldn't all of the exhibits be there due to discovery requests during the law suit? | Jul 19 16:06 |
| Lefty | I don't know whether you know that, having pre-emptively made the claim--you did, you know--you've abandoned your right to prior discovery.... | Jul 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: see http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-microsoft/2009-exhibits/PX00982.pdf | Jul 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | It's part of a short series | Jul 19 16:07 |
| Lefty | At least until you produce the cogent and persuasive evidence already in your possession. | Jul 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Also this http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-microsoft/2009-exhibits/PX00980.pdf and this http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-microsoft/2009-exhibits/PX00928.pdf | Jul 19 16:07 |
| Lefty | (AND I DO NOT REPRESENT ACCESS OR LIMO NOW, JUST ME. IT'S SUNDAY. I DON'T WORK SUNDAYS.) | Jul 19 16:07 |
| schestowitz | These basically show that bundling was done to harm DR-DOS | Jul 19 16:08 |
| Lefty | Soooo....ya _got_ some evidence, Roy? | Jul 19 16:08 |
| schestowitz | I have some notes laid out, but not the fuill text yet | Jul 19 16:08 |
| Lefty | Frivolous charges on criminality, tsk, tsk. | Jul 19 16:08 |
| Lefty | _Did_ you ever happen to take a course in Journalistic Ethics? | Jul 19 16:09 |
| wallclimber | is there anything that needs transcribing? | Jul 19 16:09 |
| Lefty | I think it's a big story, submit it to Datamation, see what they say? | Jul 19 16:09 |
| Lefty | ("Are you nuts?") | Jul 19 16:09 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, 3 of them | Jul 19 16:09 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 16:09 |
| schestowitz | As barebone evidence they speak a lot | Jul 19 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Then we can explain about them | Jul 19 16:09 |
| Lefty | Roy's going, "LALALALALALALALAICANTHEARLEFTYICANTHEARLEFTYLALALALALALA...." | Jul 19 16:09 |
| Lefty | Oh, and you're aware--I posted a comment--that your claim that I libeled you is based on a posting made by someone else. | Jul 19 16:10 |
| wallclimber | so i should work on these: 0980, 0928, and 0982 | Jul 19 16:10 |
| wallclimber | : ) | Jul 19 16:10 |
| Lefty | I don't think that's going to be of much help to you. I've got my own ID on Digg and I don't use Reddit at all. | Jul 19 16:11 |
| Lefty | Given Roy's recent lapses in judgement, and his tendency to edit IRC logs--"scummy man", right, Roy?--I feel the need to keep an eye on you hyenas. | Jul 19 16:12 |
| Lefty | Get nused to it. | Jul 19 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | wallclimber: aye | Jul 19 16:12 |
| wallclimber | okay! | Jul 19 16:13 |
| Lefty | And you're going to tell us all when the FTC stamps "Ridiculous" on that complaint, right? | Jul 19 16:13 |
| Lefty | Have you ever actually _read_ the "atroturfing law"? Do you understand it? | Jul 19 16:14 |
| Lefty | For example, what "competitive products" has Jonathan Wong "vilified"? | Jul 19 16:14 |
| Lefty | (Don't you think just ignoring me might make people wonder whether you have an answer at all?) | Jul 19 16:15 |
| Lefty | I'm gonna head out to Jono Bacon's Community Leadership summit in a while, but I can hang with you guys for a bit. | Jul 19 16:15 |
| *pk has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 19 16:16 | |
| Lefty | You know who Jono is, Roy? | Jul 19 16:16 |
| Lefty | How come _you_ didn't get invited to CLS? You're a "community leader", arencha? | Jul 19 16:16 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 16:16 |
| *pk (n=pk@86.1.200.243) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 16:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is a show of how GNU/Linux harmed Microsoft profits http://ping.fm/M2UP6 | Jul 19 16:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another report on another Linux-incompatible product from Microsoft getting the axe. http://ping.fm/FWpHo | Jul 19 16:19 | |
| Muttley | surely it's not GNU/Linux that harmed their profits but cheap netbooks | Jul 19 16:20 |
| Lefty | Here's a link showing Roy's a bald-faced liar: http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-zeal-becomes-zealotry-tawdry-tale.html | Jul 19 16:20 |
| Muttley | it forced them to sell cheap XP, and cut massively into their sales of their more profitable OS versions | Jul 19 16:20 |
| There's a lot of strange stuff about the XP launch. | Jul 19 16:21 | |
| *pk has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 19 16:21 | |
| Lefty | Here's a thread showing cola doesn't think much of Roy: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/c52bd3a6565ab8ea/214ea31a42aeff0f?lnk=raot&pli=1 | Jul 19 16:22 |
| Lefty | I agree, by the way. | Jul 19 16:22 |
| My perspective on "disaster capitalism" was fundamentally altered by Hurricane Katrina. M$ made efforts to suppress the use of free software, which could have actually helped people, and the Red Cross and Federal use of Windoze was a mess that slowed things down. | Jul 19 16:23 | |
| Lefty | You're blaming the issues around the Katrina recovery on Microsoft? | Jul 19 16:24 |
| Lefty | Not on the NOLA authorities who knew 25 years before that the levies were inadequate, and who spent money allocated to improve them on studies of casinos...? | Jul 19 16:24 |
| Lefty | Wow. | Jul 19 16:24 |
| trmanco | that's a troll | Jul 19 16:24 |
| Lefty | You guys _do_ see Microsoft under the bed. | Jul 19 16:25 |
| Lefty | What's it like to live in this sort of incessant terror? I'm curious. | Jul 19 16:25 |
| In the immediate aftermath, the city was locked up and help was turned away. Supplies were stolen by the feds and reallocated as they pleased. Fuel which had been ordered by hospitals, for example, was taken to power up other things and people died. | Jul 19 16:25 | |
| Lefty | I'm not a troll, trmanco. | Jul 19 16:25 |
| trmanco | not you | Jul 19 16:25 |
| Lefty | Yep, very poor CCC. | Jul 19 16:25 |
| trmanco | the post you linked to | Jul 19 16:26 |
| trmanco | moshe golfarb is the flatfish troll | Jul 19 16:26 |
| Lefty | They coul've improved that _if they'd spent the money they already had the way it was supposed to be spent rather than wasting it on a bunch of irrelevant studies_. | Jul 19 16:26 |
| ***twitter is unaware of the link because he's ignoring the person who made it. | Jul 19 16:26 | |
| Lefty | Well, Roy's the "Boycott Novell" troll, fair's fair. | Jul 19 16:27 |
| trmanco | http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2008/01/moshe-goldfarb-troll.html | Jul 19 16:27 |
| Lefty | Aw, Willy's _chicken_. | Jul 19 16:27 |
| ick | Jul 19 16:27 | |
| thanks for sharing, I think. | Jul 19 16:27 | |
| Lefty | Afraid of getting into an actual _argument_, Willy? | Jul 19 16:27 |
| Lefty | I know you're ill-equipped, but I can explain to you how I'm vivisecting you as we go, if you like. | Jul 19 16:27 |
| Lefty | You want to tell me I'm a "crypto Mono supporter"? | Jul 19 16:28 |
| Lefty | Roy says you're wrong. | Jul 19 16:28 |
| Lefty | Want to call me a troll? | Jul 19 16:28 |
| Lefty | Shane (whom I respect infinitely more than Roy, literally) disagrees. | Jul 19 16:28 |
| Lefty | He smacked down Roy. | Jul 19 16:29 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 16:29 |
| Lefty | I bet that stung, huh, Roy? | Jul 19 16:29 |
| Lefty | Shane agrees with me "more often than not". | Jul 19 16:29 |
| Lefty | Ow. | Jul 19 16:29 |
| Lefty | Maybe Shane's a troll, too. | Jul 19 16:29 |
| Lefty | Come on, Willy, want to go a round? | Jul 19 16:30 |
| Lefty | I won't hurt you much. | Jul 19 16:30 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 16:30 |
| Lefty | Maybe there's fifty of me doing this, too, huh, Roy? | Jul 19 16:30 |
| Lefty | By the way, the site is dog-slow since you "upgraded" it. | Jul 19 16:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is in good hands http://ping.fm/Fo598 | Jul 19 16:31 | |
| Lefty | I think you misconfigured something. | Jul 19 16:31 |
| Lefty | LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA | Jul 19 16:31 |
| Lefty | Hey, Roy, is this true? | Jul 19 16:37 |
| The amazing lies told at the launch of XP are simply amazing. | Jul 19 16:37 | |
| Lefty | "He was recently found guilty of stealing artwork from other websites and posting them on his site despite the clear and obvious copyright warnings. He has no hesitation in shamelessly stealing the work of others and posting it up on his website as his own in order to try and make a few pennies profit." | Jul 19 16:37 |
| amazing, amazing, amazing. | Jul 19 16:37 | |
| Lefty | Did you use artwork that you weren't entitled to? | Jul 19 16:37 |
| Lefty | I wouldn't want to tell anyone that if it were untrue, Roy. | Jul 19 16:37 |
| wallclimber | twitter, I agree. | Jul 19 16:37 |
| The code changes were relatively minor, as cracking exploits showed. The same code flaws in XP were also in 98 and 95. | Jul 19 16:38 | |
| Lefty | The amazing lies told by Roy Schestowitz are simply amazing. | Jul 19 16:38 |
| Lefty | Amazing, amazing, amazing. | Jul 19 16:38 |
| Stability, boot time and all those other performance metrics did not change. | Jul 19 16:38 | |
| Lefty | The egregious lies told by Roy Schestowitz are simply egregious. | Jul 19 16:39 |
| In fact, many were worse. | Jul 19 16:39 | |
| Lefty | Egregious, egregious, egregious. | Jul 19 16:39 |
| Lefty | Roy, what's the story with that improperly used artwork? Fact? Fiction? | Jul 19 16:39 |
| Lefty | I can write whoever does that blog for more details, I guess. | Jul 19 16:40 |
| They brag about their useless firewall. | Jul 19 16:40 | |
| They brag about dead simple tasks, burning CDs and getting images off cameras. | Jul 19 16:41 | |
| Muttley | so on oneside we have some speed freak going crazy, and the other it's people talking about the release of a 7 year old OS | Jul 19 16:42 |
| Muttley | you guys really go to extremes | Jul 19 16:42 |
| *ydkj hands Muttley the popcorn ;D | Jul 19 16:42 | |
| Muttley | ydkj: thanks :) | Jul 19 16:43 |
| Lefty | Speed freak, huh, Muttley? Another deep thinker, obviously. | Jul 19 16:43 |
| Lefty | Come on, Roy, either you did it or you didn't. | Jul 19 16:43 |
| Muttley | well you are posting like a kid with ADD after too much coke | Jul 19 16:43 |
| Lefty | I guess I could report the claim. It's interesting, shows a wanton disregard for other people's copyright.... | Jul 19 16:44 |
| Lefty | That probably would look nice next to your flagrant disregard for the truth, hm? | Jul 19 16:44 |
| wallclimber | twitter: What I found interesting in the XP release interview was how similar the "talk" was to the hype around Windows Vista and Win7 these days | Jul 19 16:44 |
| Lefty | Am I, Muttley? How so? | Jul 19 16:44 |
| It was the same for every launch. | Jul 19 16:44 | |
| wallclimber | twitter: the more things change, the more they stay the same | Jul 19 16:45 |
| Lefty | I think it's more that I'm posting stuff that's inconvenient for you guys, not stuff that's incoherent. | Jul 19 16:45 |
| wallclimber | : ) | Jul 19 16:45 |
| Lefty | So what exactly do you mean? | Jul 19 16:45 |
| Muttley | Lefty: I mean that you're posting like a 14 year old | Jul 19 16:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How F-spot would force Ubuntu, for example, to adopt more Mono applications with non-ECMA .NET components http://ping.fm/Q2vS8 | Jul 19 16:45 | |
| Muttley | "oh stop ignoring me, LALLALLA" | Jul 19 16:45 |
| I don't have the patience to read all 26 pages | Jul 19 16:45 | |
| Lefty | I'm posting like a 14 year old because I'm posting like a 14 year old? | Jul 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | twitter: see Vista .launch too | Jul 19 16:46 |
| Lefty | I was right, you are a deep thinker... | Jul 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | And prrelude to it | Jul 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Identical, merely | Jul 19 16:46 |
| Lefty | Hey, is that the Chimp? | Jul 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Also the laptop gifts | Jul 19 16:46 |
| wallclimber | twitter: i just skimmed it, i laughed when Sting showed up rowards the end | Jul 19 16:46 |
| http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | Jul 19 16:46 | |
| schestowitz | About 6 months before release the first time around | Jul 19 16:46 |
| Lefty | I don't care if you ignore me, Muttley. | Jul 19 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Edelamn vs W-E | Jul 19 16:47 |
| schestowitz | *Edelman | Jul 19 16:47 |
| Lefty | I'm just here to keep an eye on alla y'all, like I said... | Jul 19 16:47 |
| http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Jul 19 16:47 | |
| Muttley | Lefty: dude you posted like 20 lines in a row with no one else talking. | Jul 19 16:47 |
| Resistance has grown at each launch. | Jul 19 16:47 | |
| Muttley | you could have condensed that into 4 lines of reasonable argument | Jul 19 16:48 |
| schestowitz | twitter: not really | Jul 19 16:48 |
| It took three or four years for XP to reach 50% of the M$ users. | Jul 19 16:48 | |
| schestowitz | Vista is on par with V7 | Jul 19 16:48 |
| wallclimber | twitter: Yes, a lot of people have now joined the resistance : ) | Jul 19 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Both aredescribe as the big win thatwill take over | Jul 19 16:48 |
| Vista will never get there. | Jul 19 16:48 | |
| schestowitz | Vista more so | Jul 19 16:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz wrong link! that's the Ukraine story | Jul 19 16:48 | |
| schestowitz | Vista was lauded endlesslyt | Jul 19 16:48 |
| Windows 7 will also fail. | Jul 19 16:48 | |
| schestowitz | Trust me, I spent dozens of hours per week on the subject | Jul 19 16:48 |
| schestowitz | In 2006 that is | Jul 19 16:48 |
| schestowitz | SOmetimes it's hard to convey and express level of hype | Jul 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Maybe surveys are one way | Jul 19 16:49 |
| The Windows inevitability myth is over. | Jul 19 16:49 | |
| schestowitz | But the 'mindshare' was set up such that there WAS NOT QUESTION about VIsta's coming success | Jul 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's internal memos claimed otherwise | Jul 19 16:49 |
| schestowitz | The marketing budget was a real spree in Jan 2007 | Jul 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | It lasted months before REAL PEOPLE became too loud for Microsoft PR to control | Jul 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | And it showed | Jul 19 16:50 |
| They don't have the money for another marketing spree. | Jul 19 16:50 | |
| schestowitz | I did about 500 posts in USENET about VIsta | Jul 19 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Each containing signs of problems, which I can't remember anymore cause it was over 2 years ago | Jul 19 16:51 |
| Vista is still a mess. | Jul 19 16:51 | |
| My little failure log should jog your memory. :) | Jul 19 16:51 | |
| Lefty | It's an IRC channel, Muttley, that sort of thing happens all the time. | Jul 19 16:52 |
| Started July 28, 2007 | Jul 19 16:52 | |
| Lefty | _you_ weren't talking, what's your gripe? | Jul 19 16:52 |
| schestowitz | The difference bwteen VIsta and V7 is also then economy | Jul 19 16:52 |
| schestowitz | VIsta had more flattering surveys | Jul 19 16:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] David corrected me. Here is the correct link: http://ping.fm/6idKi "New F-Spot/Banshee Ties Pose a Microsoft Patent Threat" | Jul 19 16:52 | |
| schestowitz | Including the usual fluff from IDC | Jul 19 16:52 |
| Muttley | Lefty: I just felt you kinda came across as a bit immature and it hurts your credibility | Jul 19 16:52 |
| wallclimber | I've only met a couple of Vista machines when helping friends, it was pretty, but not very impressive otherwise...I guess if all you want to do is sit and stare at your computer, Vista might be useful | Jul 19 16:52 |
| schestowitz | They got nailed for it in the press | Jul 19 16:52 |
| Vista failed before the economy did | Jul 19 16:52 | |
| Lefty | Oh, Mr. Editor, this headline is ungrammatical: "So Many Trolls, So Little GNU/Linux Users…" | Jul 19 16:52 |
| schestowitz | But for VIsta there was a healthy economy | Jul 19 16:52 |
| Lefty | "Little" is incorrect, you mean "few". | Jul 19 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Upgrades, new harrdware... caviar.. sushi... bring it on! :-) | Jul 19 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Now everyone is happy with XP and some dual boot with Ubuntu | Jul 19 16:53 |
| Muttley | Lefty: in fact, my original comment was just supposed to be a joke. I expected the anti-mono bunch to get more offended to be honest | Jul 19 16:53 |
| Lefty | Well, Muttley, you come off as having an IQ about the same as the temperature at which a good Cabernet should be served. | Jul 19 16:53 |
| Lefty | I think that hurts _your_ credibility. | Jul 19 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Hence the need to generate myths about Ubuntu and poison it with SCO-like identical 'IP' like Mono | Jul 19 16:53 |
| for some reason, the M$ people also talk about kristal or whatever that silly stuff is. | Jul 19 16:54 | |
| Muttley | wow, that's really stunning | Jul 19 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft needsn't sue for mono | Jul 19 16:54 |
| schestowitz | It just point at it and says, "pay up, it's a copy of .NET" | Jul 19 16:54 |
| Lefty | You strike me as easy to stun, honestly. | Jul 19 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Samba had the EU commission, Piana and SFLC intervene to change it | Jul 19 16:54 |
| Lefty | who, exactly, are they telling to "pay up", Roy? | Jul 19 16:54 |
| I cringe when I see mention of dual booting with Vista, because Vista sabotages dual boots. | Jul 19 16:54 | |
| Lefty | stopping people on the streets and shaking them down? | Jul 19 16:55 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: I never met a person's VIsta machine | Jul 19 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Not even my sister's new PC | Jul 19 16:55 |
| Lefty | did you think Microsoft has a paramilitary wing or something? | Jul 19 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Bought in 2009 | Jul 19 16:55 |
| schestowitz | I laughed so hard seeing it running XP | Jul 19 16:55 |
| schestowitz | I run PCLOS on oit | Jul 19 16:55 |
| Muttley | Lefty: of course, you didn't specify the actual units you were using so I'm assuming Kelvin. in which case I'm flattered | Jul 19 16:55 |
| ydkj | twitter: no, you just fail to set it up correctly ;P | Jul 19 16:55 |
| Lefty | That's nice. You _would_ be. | Jul 19 16:56 |
| A relative of mine got a Vista machine. It lasted a few months before it became unbootable. The last few weeks was them talking to Dell tech. | Jul 19 16:56 | |
| ydkj | and that shows what exactly? pebkac or ... ? | Jul 19 16:56 |
| schestowitz | ydkj: they complicate it | Jul 19 16:56 |
| I set up all of my machines correctly, ydkj, and wipe whatever it came with. | Jul 19 16:57 | |
| Lefty | Well, Roy, since you don't dispute it, I'm going to assume that the "playing fast and loose with other people's copyrights" is true. | Jul 19 16:57 |
| ydkj | yeah, so it takes like 2 minutes more - come on it's not that hard. | Jul 19 16:57 |
| Lefty | We can talk about it in the cross-examination. | Jul 19 16:57 |
| schestowitz | g2g. Gym closed at 7 | Jul 19 16:57 |
| Lefty | I'll add it to the stack of evidence. | Jul 19 16:57 |
| schestowitz | *closes | Jul 19 16:57 |
| Vista SPs rewrite the MBR and bit locker is impossible to use with anything but Winblows. | Jul 19 16:57 | |
| Lefty | Bye, Roy, don't fall down at hurt yourself! See ya later! | Jul 19 16:58 |
| ydkj | gasp, stop the press. And who is forcing you to use it? E.g. TrueCrypt is impossible to use without TrueCrypt as well ... | Jul 19 16:58 |
| Go visit my failure log ydkj. Everything is documented there. | Jul 19 16:58 | |
| *** twitter ignores obvious troll ydkj | Jul 19 16:59 | |
| ydkj | well, ignore what you want but better stop ignoring reality ... | Jul 19 16:59 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.82.130.126) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 16:59 | |
| Lefty | Willy can't hold his own here, either. Not surprising. | Jul 19 17:00 |
| ydkj | besides that I still consider it pretty funny that you genius' still go on and call everyone who doesn't agree with you 100% a troll :D | Jul 19 17:00 |
| Twitter happily uses GNU/Linux with full drive encryption. The kernel asks for a pass word and unlocks the partition in question. No modifications to grub were required. | Jul 19 17:00 | |
| Lefty | Anyone else finding the updated site to be slow as molasses? | Jul 19 17:00 |
| Lefty | Yeah, that's the way they are, ydkj. They can't argue their "points" so they stand around going "Troll! Troll! Troll!" | Jul 19 17:01 |
| Lefty | It's pretty pathetic. | Jul 19 17:01 |
| HivenGlaven | Yes, calling anyone who disagrees a troll is sad i have to admit. | Jul 19 17:01 |
| ydkj | twitter: congrats dude, and that's so frigging hard, right? I mean it proofs absolutely nothing and the only context with whatever been said is that it's related to encryption. So, what do you want to say with that? | Jul 19 17:01 |
| Lefty | That goes double for the twit over there. | Jul 19 17:01 |
| Lefty | Look at him, slack-jawed and goggle-eyed... | Jul 19 17:02 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 17:02 |
| Lefty | These guys check under the bed to make sure that Microsoft isn't under there before they can turn out the light, ydkj... | Jul 19 17:03 |
| *ydkj slaps Lefty | Jul 19 17:03 | |
| ydkj | Lefty: dude, they aren't called Microsoft but "M$" ;D | Jul 19 17:03 |
| HivenGlaven | lefty, you've not been here when they ask how they can blame MS for (put world problem here) comments :D | Jul 19 17:04 |
| Lefty | No, that's childish. | Jul 19 17:04 |
| wallclimber | twitter: I had a great time yesterday showing a friend the differences between Ubuntu and XP. Installed a video card on a dual boot machine, then fired it up. Ubu didn't even blink, it just worked. Rebooted into XP and it took another 30 minutes to get the driver installed, with many adventures along the way. The "Readme" file for the driver had 18 steps of instructions for installing the driver. Made me laugh. | Jul 19 17:04 |
| ydkj | Lefty: sure it is but that's how they are | Jul 19 17:04 |
| Lefty | I'm sorry, Microsoft is not the Antichrist. | Jul 19 17:04 |
| Lefty | Oh, yes, I was! | Jul 19 17:04 |
| Lefty | It's the twit's thesis that the Katrina problems were all Micorosoft's fault! | Jul 19 17:04 |
| wallclimber | I think Windows isn't quite ready for the desktop, much tooo hard for "grandma" lol | Jul 19 17:04 |
| Lefty | I mean, it _couldn't possibly_ have anything to do with the NOLA local gov't ignoring wanrings about the levees for a quarter-century.... | Jul 19 17:05 |
| ydkj | wallclimber: out of curiosity, what card was that (did the same 2 days ago and didn't run into such troubles with another nvidia card) | Jul 19 17:05 |
| Lefty | and fritter away the money that had to fix them on _studies_ about casinos! | Jul 19 17:05 |
| Lefty | They didn't even get a casino out of it. | Jul 19 17:05 |
| ***twitter finally ignores HivenGlaven | Jul 19 17:06 | |
| HivenGlaven | or that the levies were build on a silt foundation | Jul 19 17:06 |
| Lefty | These folks are like a little circle of lunatics, each reinforcing the other's delusions. | Jul 19 17:06 |
| Lefty | You guys might not have heard.... | Jul 19 17:06 |
| Lefty | One of Roy's little trollettes decided to try to scare me by posting my employer's addresses and phone numbers into a comment. | Jul 19 17:07 |
| wallclimber | ydkj: it was a PNY Geforce 9500 gt. It ended up being the driver, i did get an update to the driver and it all finally worked, but sheesh. | Jul 19 17:07 |
| Lefty | Here's the best part: he did it _hoping that *someone else* would make the call_! | Jul 19 17:07 |
| HivenGlaven | http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/3731248/to-become-an-extremist-hang-around-with-people-you-agree-with.thtml | Jul 19 17:07 |
| Lefty | These guys show _such_ charracter, it's really inspiring to me. | Jul 19 17:07 |
| tacone | twitter: did you invite some of your friends in the chan ? :) | Jul 19 17:08 |
| splosion | hrmm, drama | Jul 19 17:08 |
| wallclimber | Lefty: not everyone here is a guy. | Jul 19 17:08 |
| Lefty | Yeah, that's about the size of it HivenGlaven... | Jul 19 17:08 |
| I don't know what you mean, tacone. | Jul 19 17:08 | |
| HivenGlaven | guys is a generic term for "people" | Jul 19 17:08 |
| Lefty | And have you looked at the comments? | Jul 19 17:08 |
| Lefty | Have you _seen_ these guys trying to _argue_? | Jul 19 17:09 |
| Lefty | Willy's most cogent statement to date has been, "You suck!" | Jul 19 17:09 |
| Lefty | I'm using it generically, wallclimber. | Jul 19 17:09 |
| Lefty | I can't see any of you. | Jul 19 17:09 |
| Lefty | It's easier in Japanese, there's no gender sense to words. | Jul 19 17:10 |
| Lefty | I'd say, "Minna-san", which doesn't go either way... | Jul 19 17:10 |
| wallclimber | lol, well this little "generic" person has work to do...bye for now | Jul 19 17:10 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 19 17:10 | |
| Lefty | Hey, twit? Parlez-vous le francais? Nihongo o hanasemasu? | Jul 19 17:11 |
| Lefty | Or are you one of them Americans who thinks everyone _really_ speaks English? | Jul 19 17:11 |
| splosion | lefty, who the hell cares? | Jul 19 17:12 |
| splosion | why are you here? | Jul 19 17:12 |
| Lefty | I do, splosion. | Jul 19 17:12 |
| Lefty | Are you trying to oppress me? | Jul 19 17:12 |
| Muttley | why are we all here? that's pretty deep for a Sunday | Jul 19 17:12 |
| Lefty | Inhibit my _freedom_? | Jul 19 17:12 |
| splosion | oh, trolling | Jul 19 17:12 |
| tacone | splosion: he's just talking alone. | Jul 19 17:12 |
| splosion | ok cool | Jul 19 17:12 |
| Lefty | I _like_ you folks, you're very funny. | Jul 19 17:12 |
| HivenGlaven | if you say too much that roy does not like he'll call you a troll and kick you from IRC. | Jul 19 17:12 |
| HivenGlaven | I know, gee how I know LOL | Jul 19 17:13 |
| tacone | Lefty: before you go on, do you know this channel is publicly logged ? | Jul 19 17:13 |
| Lefty | I enjoy catching Roy in _every single lie he tells_ and he tells a _lot_ of 'em. | Jul 19 17:13 |
| Lefty | Why are _you_ here? | Jul 19 17:13 |
| Lefty | To whimper about _me_ being here? | Jul 19 17:13 |
| splosion | keep going. You're a funny guy | Jul 19 17:13 |
| schestowitz, your Ubuntu article got me thinking. | Jul 19 17:13 | |
| Lefty | See, Roy decided to make it more difficult to post comments, even though he knows for sure that a) it's just me... | Jul 19 17:13 |
| Lefty | and b) I _never_ use a name other than my own. | Jul 19 17:14 |
| HivenGlaven | giving you the moral victory Lefty | Jul 19 17:14 |
| Lefty | So, since "most of the work" is done in IRC, I hear, I thought I'd see this work being done. | Jul 19 17:14 |
| Lefty | Lend a hand, maybe. | Jul 19 17:14 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 17:14 |
| Kubuntu looks like a good way out of the mono trap and may be their compromise, even though they seem to put more effort into Gnome. | Jul 19 17:14 | |
| tacone | twitter: kde has been marked as an alternative by some people | Jul 19 17:15 |
| splosion | I never liked Kubuntu. Debian's KDE feels so much more refined | Jul 19 17:15 |
| but that lead me to wonder why Novell, which has a KDE based distro, is so into Gnome. | Jul 19 17:15 | |
| *magentar_ (n=magentar@ip-95-223-204-218.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 17:15 | |
| Lefty | HivenGlaven, with this crowd, getting the moral victory's easy. Collectively, Roy's little troll minions don't have the ethics of a pack of rabid hyenas. | Jul 19 17:15 |
| Lefty | You can quote me on that. | Jul 19 17:15 |
| How do they justify such a strange investment to their share holders? | Jul 19 17:15 | |
| tacone | kde people seems not that actracted by mono, for some reasons (some say because qt framework is good) | Jul 19 17:16 |
| Right | Jul 19 17:16 | |
| tacone | twitter: i think it is historically bound to kde | Jul 19 17:16 |
| Lefty | Why don't you _buy a share of stock and ask them_, Willy, you _dullard_? | Jul 19 17:16 |
| KDE is not going to get suckered into that mess. | Jul 19 17:16 | |
| tacone | as kde and suse are much liked in germany | Jul 19 17:16 |
| splosion | I've heard people sing the praises of QT to high heaven. Qyoto and [what's that other kde-mono one called?] don't seem to be taking off very well. could do in time though | Jul 19 17:16 |
| KDE is much liked everywhere. | Jul 19 17:17 | |
| tacone | but miguel, who's co-founder of gnome(?) was hired in novell afterwards | Jul 19 17:17 |
| Lefty | And if you want "Mono out of the Ubuntu default install" so badly, how come none of you is running for the Ubuntu Technical Board? | Jul 19 17:17 |
| Lefty | See, that's what makes it obvious that you're nothing but a bunch of griefers. | Jul 19 17:17 |
| tacone | Lefty: not easy to run for UTB. try yourself. | Jul 19 17:17 |
| Lefty | KDE is not "much liked everywhere", Willy. | Jul 19 17:18 |
| If Novell loves Gnome so much, why do they stick with KDE? | Jul 19 17:18 | |
| Lefty | you don't know what you're talking about. | Jul 19 17:18 |
| Lefty | People like KDE less and less as time goes on. | Jul 19 17:18 |
| tacone | twitter: why shouldn't them ? | Jul 19 17:18 |
| Lefty | More than half the folks at the Desktop Summit were GNOME folks. | Jul 19 17:18 |
| tacone | there's community's work. and existing user base and so on. | Jul 19 17:18 |
| Lefty | You wouldn't know that, you don't know jack about the _real_ FLOSS development community, do you? | Jul 19 17:19 |
| Because they should be putting their money into developing the platform they sell customers, not Ubuntu. | Jul 19 17:19 | |
| Lefty | Come on, WIlly! Startle me! Prove me wrong. | Jul 19 17:19 |
| Lefty | Um, Willy, what? | Jul 19 17:19 |
| tacone | twitter: guess they still put the majority of money in gnome (also via mono). aren't them ? | Jul 19 17:19 |
| Lefty | You're not even making sense now. | Jul 19 17:19 |
| tacone | Lefty: you're being annoying. | Jul 19 17:20 |
| Lefty | Hey, Willy, who's the head of the KDE board, since you're such a fan? | Jul 19 17:20 |
| I don't know what they do, but Roy has shown that Novell would not be here without M$ bribe money. | Jul 19 17:20 | |
| Lefty | Tough, tacone. | Jul 19 17:20 |
| Lefty | Grow a thicker skin. | Jul 19 17:20 |
| So basically, they serve M$ not their customers. | Jul 19 17:20 | |
| Lefty | Oh, and you're being childish. So there. | Jul 19 17:20 |
| Muttley | haha | Jul 19 17:21 |
| splosion | Lefty: NO U | Jul 19 17:21 |
| ydkj | twitter: you aren't really trying to say that Novell doesn't do a thing for Gnome but only lives from the great contributions the mighty buntu does to Gnome and foss in general, are you? | Jul 19 17:21 |
| Muttley | this is awesome | Jul 19 17:21 |
| Lefty | Um, how do you figure, Willy. Novell already _got_ the money. Sow your work. | Jul 19 17:21 |
| tacone | Lefty: it's not me screaming about sexism for a virgin-mary parody. i have thick skin. I'm telling for you. Your msg here are lesive for your reputation | Jul 19 17:21 |
| Lefty | That's like saying because Apple used to pay me a decade ago, they're still paying me now. | Jul 19 17:22 |
| Muttley | ydkj: they help toxically poison gnome with toxins and poison ;) | Jul 19 17:22 |
| Lefty | Well, tacone, see, that's because I _actually spoke to folks at GCDS_ who were as unhappy as I was. | Jul 19 17:22 |
| Lefty | You think I'm the only one who's complained about it? | Jul 19 17:22 |
| Lefty | I'm just the only one who wrote _Stallman_ about it, and he acted....unfortunately. | Jul 19 17:23 |
| tacone | No, but I think you're allowing yourself beyond what politeness suggests, here. | Jul 19 17:23 |
| Lefty | "lesive"? What's that mean, tacone? To quote Stallman ridiculing a questioner for whom English was not a first language, "I......Caaaaaaaaaan't understaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand yooooooooooooou. Caaaaaaaaaaan yooooooooooou enuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunciaaaaaaaaaaaate beeeeeeeeetter?" | Jul 19 17:24 |
| ydkj | Muttley: well, if Gnome doesn't want them noone is forcing them to use them. | Jul 19 17:24 |
| Lefty | Well, that's a matter of opinion, tacone. | Jul 19 17:24 |
| Lefty | maybe you should write the president of the internet and complain, hm? | Jul 19 17:25 |
| Lefty | besides, tacone, what exactly are you talking about? | Jul 19 17:25 |
| Muttley | ydkj: the joys of open source where if people don't like something they can do it another way | Jul 19 17:26 |
| *magentar has quit (Connection timed out) | Jul 19 17:26 | |
| Lefty | Did I mention that when Roy called me a troll, Shane disagreed? "I agree with Lefty more often than not." | Jul 19 17:26 |
| splosion | Lefty: lesive is an Italian word | Jul 19 17:26 |
| Lefty | That's what he said. | Jul 19 17:26 |
| Lefty has never been polite, informative, entertaining or anything useful. You are better off ignoring or kicking him. | Jul 19 17:26 | |
| Muttley | ydkj: what I don't understand is how some many KDE fans can find the time to hate something that's gnome only | Jul 19 17:26 |
| ydkj | One thing I'm curious about is why you guys go so nuts if someone dares to critizice stallman? Is he like the pope who is always right based on some godly law or ... ? | Jul 19 17:26 |
| Lefty | Oh, well, "baka" is a Japanese word. Want to know what it means? | Jul 19 17:27 |
| splosion | I already know | Jul 19 17:27 |
| Lefty | Yeah, I'm starting to think they worship Stallman or something. | Jul 19 17:27 |
| Lefty | Do you folks keep his picture under your pillows? | Jul 19 17:27 |
| Lefty | Oh, good, splosion! Try and work out how it applies to you! | Jul 19 17:27 |
| HivenGlaven | it is very cult like lefty | Jul 19 17:28 |
| Lefty | "WE PLEDGE ETERNAL ALLEGIANCE TO OUR LEADER, RICHARD STALLMAN!" | Jul 19 17:28 |
| Lefty | Something like that...? | Jul 19 17:28 |
| Lefty | Hm. I usually associate cults with, oh, sex orgies and stuff. | Jul 19 17:28 |
| ydkj | Muttley: I wouldn't say hate but more "mocking" Gnome for its "The user needs no options but defaults choosen by devs" pov. Regarding the Gnome only stuff, since I can use Gnome apps on KDE and the other way round I can just use what I want. Which is one of the reasons I don't get it why they go so nuts. | Jul 19 17:29 |
| Lefty | I don't think Roy's pals know what sex is, honestly. | Jul 19 17:29 |
| HivenGlaven | cults need at least 2 things a figure head and a cause. | Jul 19 17:29 |
| Lefty | I mean it's clear that tacone, at least, doesn't know any actual women. | Jul 19 17:29 |
| Lefty | And I wouldn't think Willy's Tourette's Syndrome would be a big draw... | Jul 19 17:29 |
| Muttley | ydkj: yeah, "f-spot is the devils work, it uses mono. Digikam is better" fine, use digikam then, your choice ;) | Jul 19 17:30 |
| Lefty | And no woman would put up with Roy's pathological lying. | Jul 19 17:30 |
| splosion | This is great stuff, Lefty. you should write a blog post about how you fearlessly entered the domain of fanboynazizealots and totally pwned them. Another glorious victory for... whatever the hell it is you stand for | Jul 19 17:30 |
| ydkj | HivenGlaven: well, they have the beard, now they just need a brain to find the cause ;D | Jul 19 17:30 |
| Lefty | There are more interesting things to blog about, splosion. Where's _your_ blog, since you're such an afficionado of such things? | Jul 19 17:31 |
| splosion | I don't blog about BN, Mono, or any of the things BN goes on about | Jul 19 17:31 |
| Lefty | And you haven't seen "pwned" yet. Like I said, ask Roy about how I'm going to be seeing him in court for libeling me... | Jul 19 17:31 |
| Lefty | He _admitted_ it, you know. | Jul 19 17:31 |
| ydkj | Muttley: yeah, and if you absolutely can't stand it write your own like that dude did for some mono notes app iirc. However, that would mean that zealots like twitter would have to do something productive which surely wont happen | Jul 19 17:31 |
| Lefty | Posted a full retraction, and an apology. That's what they call _prima facie_ evidence. | Jul 19 17:32 |
| Lefty | That means it's an "open and shut case"... | Jul 19 17:32 |
| tacone | Lefty: did you ask him to rectify before threatening to sue ? | Jul 19 17:32 |
| Lefty | I did. | Jul 19 17:32 |
| tacone | if you did, I have missed that. | Jul 19 17:33 |
| Muttley | ydkj: it's far easier to sit on your arse and moan than lift a finger and do something productive | Jul 19 17:33 |
| Lefty | As part of his apology, he undertook never to be so irresponsible again in the future. | Jul 19 17:33 |
| ydkj | Muttley: for sure :D | Jul 19 17:33 |
| Lefty | He broke _that_ promise within a day. | Jul 19 17:33 |
| Lefty | Well, then you missed it, tacone. I've pointed out to Roy every single one of his libels when I've become aware of them. | Jul 19 17:34 |
| ydkj | tacone: does it matter? boy is spreading lies for ages and refuses to correct even the most blatant ones so, personally, I'm happy and have a great laugh now that someone finally gets bored enough to sue that fucker. | Jul 19 17:34 |
| HivenGlaven | It was damn fine of Roy to hang around and debate the issues with you Lefty, and not run away from being called about his "facts". | Jul 19 17:34 |
| Lefty | He's got an article that claims--get this--based on a _parody_ article about Google's "ChromeOS", that the "Microsoft CEO Admits That Vista is Vapourware". | Jul 19 17:34 |
| Lefty | That's what the headline says. | Jul 19 17:34 |
| Lefty | It's been pointed out to him multiple times, and he hasn't corrected it. | Jul 19 17:35 |
| Lefty | Are you suggesting, in the face of all the evidence, that Roy is _not_ a pathological liar....? | Jul 19 17:35 |
| ydkj | cause its a blog and we have freedom of speech | Jul 19 17:35 |
| ydkj | or no, was it a journal | Jul 19 17:35 |
| Lefty | Yeah, HivenGlaven, Roy's a real man of conviction! | Jul 19 17:36 |
| ydkj | or even a wiki made by others? | Jul 19 17:36 |
| Lefty | Willy found that out. | Jul 19 17:36 |
| *ydkj lost it ;'( | Jul 19 17:36 | |
| tacone | Lefty: could you link your first rectification request ? | Jul 19 17:36 |
| Lefty | He and ROy were the ones spreading the libel that I objected to. | Jul 19 17:36 |
| Lefty | Roy cut and ran, retracted it, apologized in full, swore never to do it again, and left poor twit there, twisting in the wind with a stupid expression on his face. | Jul 19 17:37 |
| Lefty | Right, twit? | Jul 19 17:37 |
| Lefty | All I can say is that if it looks like a news site, and it has an editor like a news site, and it publishes news like a news site, and the fellow responsible is a "freelance journalist".... | Jul 19 17:38 |
| Lefty | Well, you get the idea... | Jul 19 17:38 |
| tacone | I'm suggesting you said you asked for rectification before threatening and I still can't read it anywhere. That's fine, bn has a lot of posts. But still i miss it. | Jul 19 17:38 |
| Lefty | Could you blow it out your ear, tacone? | Jul 19 17:39 |
| Lefty | This is between Roy and me. | Jul 19 17:39 |
| Lefty | Do your own research, numbskull. | Jul 19 17:39 |
| tacone | it's between you two until you come here and take pride of a legal threat. | Jul 19 17:39 |
| Lefty | You don't get it, see? Roy had _already admitted to libeling me. | Jul 19 17:40 |
| ydkj | nah, that's fine since it gives me a great laugh :D | Jul 19 17:40 |
| Lefty | I had to make it clear to him that I was in complete earnest about hauling his sorry ass into court to get him to retract his defamation and apologize for it. | Jul 19 17:40 |
| Lefty | With me so far? | Jul 19 17:40 |
| Lefty | As I said, he broke his promise to be more responsible before 24 hours was out. | Jul 19 17:41 |
| ydkj | Lefty: but that's not really surprising ;D | Jul 19 17:41 |
| Lefty | I told him I viewed that as acting in bad faith. What's your big interest in a request for rectification from someone who's a) already an admitted libeler, and b) has shown bad faith in breaking a covenant he agreed to? | Jul 19 17:42 |
| Lefty | You another one of them "internet lawyers"? | Jul 19 17:42 |
| tacone | he admitted a mistake afaik. | Jul 19 17:42 |
| Lefty | Of course it's not surprising, it's Roy all over. But tacone there is shuffling his feet, going "Well dude, did you ask him to, like, y' know, _rectify_ it? 'Cause, um, I didn't actually, like, you know, _see_ it, right?" | Jul 19 17:43 |
| ydkj | tacone: sry, but calling boys stuff "mistakes" is pretty ridiculous | Jul 19 17:43 |
| Lefty | He admitted _defamation_, tacone. That's a _big_ mistake. | Jul 19 17:43 |
| Vista 7 hype log is updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Jul 19 17:43 | |
| Lefty | And then he jumped right back into it. | Jul 19 17:44 |
| HivenGlaven | libel is a serious charge, and not hard to convict on it can be very expensive if your convicted especially if it affects someone's professional career. It's even worse if its repeated, and they are aware of what they are doing. | Jul 19 17:44 |
| splosion | jesus, Lefty, stop being as ass. If you're gonna do it, just bloody well DO IT already. stop being a cock about it | Jul 19 17:44 |
| Lefty | And "as far as you know" is about the distance from my left nostril to my right. | Jul 19 17:44 |
| HivenGlaven | Lefty, they call Win 7 Vista 7 here, it's their little in joke. | Jul 19 17:44 |
| ydkj | no way, go on, I love it :D | Jul 19 17:44 |
| Lefty | I've got clearcut evidence, HivenGlaven, and as I said, Roy colluded with some of his trollettes to try and cause trouble for me at my job. | Jul 19 17:45 |
| Lefty | didn't work of course, but this place needs to be shut down, I believe. | Jul 19 17:45 |
| as more ARM and MIPS netbooks hit the market, M$ inability to port is going to tell on them. | Jul 19 17:45 | |
| Lefty | splosion, I'm doing it. Enjoy this place while it's still around. and say your byebyes to Roy. | Jul 19 17:46 |
| Muttley | Lefty: are you going to take him to court then> | Jul 19 17:46 |
| Muttley | ? | Jul 19 17:46 |
| Lefty | Well, obviously, Muttley. | Jul 19 17:46 |
| Lefty | Yes. | Jul 19 17:46 |
| Muttley | where? | Jul 19 17:46 |
| HivenGlaven | Ive had that happen to me, I built a strong case hired a top law speaking guy, and they other person crumbled. BTW: my boss thought he was a crazy it did nothing to hurt me. | Jul 19 17:46 |
| People want portability that Intel has yet to deliver. | Jul 19 17:46 | |
| Lefty | Roy's pals made up my mind for me when they posted the contact information for my employer in a comment. | Jul 19 17:46 |
| well, Wintel has yet to deliver. | Jul 19 17:46 | |
| Muttley | Lefty: which country? | Jul 19 17:47 |
| Lefty | Willy, shut up, we're talking here. | Jul 19 17:47 |
| Lefty | stay on topic. | Jul 19 17:47 |
| HivenGlaven | Yes I read that, its quite disgusting to see people stoop to that level. or even feel they need too. | Jul 19 17:47 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 19 17:47 | |
| Lefty | I'm going to sue him in the UK. he's based there, and the defamation laws are _extremely_ friendly to the defamed. | Jul 19 17:47 |
| Lefty | Also, it'll make it a lot easier to strip him of his various assets. | Jul 19 17:48 |
| EEE PC, despite it's flaws, was a big hit. | Jul 19 17:48 | |
| Lefty | Who are you talking to, Willy? | Jul 19 17:48 |
| Lefty | The wall? | Jul 19 17:48 |
| Muttley | does publishing personal information count as defamation? | Jul 19 17:48 |
| Android devices and stuff like crunchpad are going to run away with the PC market. | Jul 19 17:48 | |
| Lefty | I travel to the UK a lot, as it happens. | Jul 19 17:48 |
| splosion | good old UK defamation laws. Pretty much the only place in the world where you can be sued for libel even if what you say is true. is this part of your decision to come to the UK, Lefty? | Jul 19 17:49 |
| People don't want to spend $1000 on a computer any more. You will be lucky to get $200 out of them. | Jul 19 17:49 | |
| HivenGlaven | it could certainly be construde as intimidation or even terrism in this age. | Jul 19 17:49 |
| Muttley | HivenGlaven: that's not the same | Jul 19 17:49 |
| The last mile problem can still be a barrier. | Jul 19 17:49 | |
| Lefty | No, Muttley, that would be invasion of privacy. Telling outright lies which would damage my reputation--in this case that "the only reason Lefty is complaning about Stallman is that Lefty is a SECRET MONO SUPPORTER!" | Jul 19 17:50 |
| Lefty | That's damaging to me, and that what he retracted and apologized for. | Jul 19 17:50 |
| Most long range wireless services are run by abusive monopolies who push really poor and non free software. | Jul 19 17:50 | |
| Muttley | how is it damaging? | Jul 19 17:50 |
| Lefty | I know it's a challenge, Muttley, do try and keep up. | Jul 19 17:50 |
| ydkj | splosion: of course he should sue boy in spain and not in the uk since he lives in the uk, right? | Jul 19 17:50 |
| Lefty | Anyone know who Willy thinks he's talking to...? | Jul 19 17:51 |
| The answer, of course, is more freedom not less. | Jul 19 17:51 | |
| Open Spectrum should put an end to wireless pain. http://www.reed.com/OpenSpectrum/ | Jul 19 17:51 | |
| Lefty | Er, how is it damaging? Claiming that I'm colluding with Novell to "assassinate Stalman's character"? | Jul 19 17:51 |
| Lefty | You don't see that as damaging to me? | Jul 19 17:51 |
| David_Lee | Twitter: Have you heard any updates on the susu snapdragon? | Jul 19 17:51 |
| Muttley | also if he's retracted and apologised for his statement doesn't that weaken your case? | Jul 19 17:51 |
| David_Lee | *susu=ASUS | Jul 19 17:52 |
| no | Jul 19 17:52 | |
| Lefty | Muttley? | Jul 19 17:52 |
| ASUS has been clobbered by M$ as far as I can tell. | Jul 19 17:52 | |
| Lefty | Nope, it strengthens it. By retracting it and apologizing, he _admits_ it's libel. | Jul 19 17:52 |
| HivenGlaven | then doing it again soon after makes it even worse | Jul 19 17:53 |
| they took an operating loss on hardware, for the first time in their history, shortly after putting XP on their EEE PCs. | Jul 19 17:53 | |
| Muttley | did he say he meant malice by it? | Jul 19 17:53 |
| Lefty | He also made a prmise to be more responsible in the future, which he broke in less than a day, repeating (at second-hand) _exactly_ the same lies. | Jul 19 17:53 |
| Now they dump GNU/Linux completely. | Jul 19 17:53 | |
| Muttley | or did he just apologise for name calling | Jul 19 17:53 |
| Muttley | and admit his mistake | Jul 19 17:53 |
| Lefty | Look at this site, Muttley. | Jul 19 17:53 |
| Lefty | Jeebub, why don't you go and _read_ the damned thing, Muttley. | Jul 19 17:54 |
| Muttley | Lefty: dude, his site is full of crap. I could spend hours looking. | Jul 19 17:54 |
| Muttley | then post the link | Jul 19 17:54 |
| I'd be happy to learn asus has gotten out of that bed. | Jul 19 17:54 | |
| Muttley | if you're going to be presenting it as evidence surely you have a url close to hand | Jul 19 17:54 |
| David_Lee | Last time Asus dropped the ball Acer to the lead. Now they're screwing it with the a0531h. | Jul 19 17:54 |
| ydkj | Muttley: no, boy doesn't mean mallice with anything he does, he's a good hearted fella who just wants the best for everyone. That's why he runs his "site" like he does ... (keep the irony ;D) | Jul 19 17:54 |
| Lefty | You'll find a full and detailed retraction, and unreserved aplogy, and a promise to refrain from making such "irresponsible statements" in the future. | Jul 19 17:54 |
| Lefty | That's you're problem, Muttley, you can take my word for it or not. | Jul 19 17:55 |
| Lefty | I'm not your research assistant. | Jul 19 17:55 |
| Muttley | ydkj: oh yeah, I believe that. but I'm just saying that unless he admits that he meant to defame lefty by his statement then an apology doesn't help lefty much | Jul 19 17:55 |
| Roy has a few good write ups, like this http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/24/microsoft-pays-asus-claim/ | Jul 19 17:55 | |
| Lefty | I've got plenty of URLs, but I find you too stupid to indulge. | Jul 19 17:55 |
| Muttley | Lefty: dude, wtf? don't you even have it bookmarked | Jul 19 17:55 |
| http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+asus&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Jul 19 17:56 | |
| Lefty | I don't need to prove anything to you, Nimrod, just to the judge. | Jul 19 17:56 |
| Muttley | Lefty: you droned on about it enough I'd just expect you have it close to hand | Jul 19 17:56 |
| http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/06/asustek-falls-with-windows/ | Jul 19 17:56 | |
| David_Lee | Yeah, I read that one. | Jul 19 17:56 |
| HivenGlaven | You would think someone like Roy would know about libel and defamation laws quite well considering how he plays fast and lose with the truth, after all what would he do if he got a legel letter from a Bill Gates or balmer lawyer with very very deep pockets and good legal council. | Jul 19 17:56 |
| Sad story. | Jul 19 17:56 | |
| Lefty | Muttley, do you know what the phrase "in flagrant disregard for the truth" means? | Jul 19 17:56 |
| David_Lee | Not the second. | Jul 19 17:56 |
| They were choked in the retail channel. | Jul 19 17:56 | |
| Lefty | Do you know anything at all about journaistic ethics and responsibilities? | Jul 19 17:56 |
| Muttley | Lefty: dude, the guy writes a blog. I know he likes to claim he's a journalist but that doesn't mean he is | Jul 19 17:57 |
| Lefty | HivenGlaven, I would have thought so, too, but I've come around to the view that Roy is actually just too stupid. | Jul 19 17:57 |
| Lefty | He doesn't even seem to have a lawyer to call. | Jul 19 17:57 |
| PJ covered the smoking gun complaint. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529 | Jul 19 17:57 | |
| Lefty | If he did, he'd know he's in deep doo-doo here. | Jul 19 17:57 |
| David_Lee | Also Sony is a followup to the ao531h with their small version. | Jul 19 17:57 |
| she's got updates. I think I'll read that again. | Jul 19 17:57 | |
| splosion | Lefty, everything you accuse Roy of doing (which ultimately amounts to "he dissed me!"), you are doing likewise every time you open your god-damned mouth by insulting pretty much everyone you meet. You're being hypocritical, unethical, and a troll. If you had any integrity at all you'd practise what you preach; but as it stands, no amount of bullshit reasoning can hide the fact that you lack it. | Jul 19 17:58 |
| Lefty | It's not a blog, Muttley. ROy's an editor and a freelance journalist. Says so in his (digitally signed) email sig. | Jul 19 17:58 |
| Lefty | Thinks that's just a fun thing to call yourself? | Jul 19 17:58 |
| HivenGlaven | the "smoking gun" was a Asus rep saying he wuold love to ship with linux but he has to sell the products and no one wants to buy the linux ones. read it. | Jul 19 17:58 |
| Lefty | Bite me, splosion. you're another dullard, and I don't think I need to be nice here. | Jul 19 17:59 |
| Muttley | if I call myself the King of England does mean i get to wear a crown? ;) | Jul 19 17:59 |
| Lefty | And you misspelled "inconvenient". | Jul 19 17:59 |
| Muttley | all I'm saying is I think you're overestimating your chances of success | Jul 19 17:59 |
| David_Lee | The Charlie Demerjian's link was the one i was going to send to Andrew. Had lost it. Thanks. | Jul 19 17:59 |
| ydkj | splosion: well, being impolite is pretty different to spreading blatant lies | Jul 19 18:00 |
| Muttley | a well written apology can destroy a defamation case. | Jul 19 18:00 |
| HivenGlaven | not very often | Jul 19 18:00 |
| Lefty | If you call yourself a freelance journalist and an editor, and you have a site full of what look an awful lot like news stories, and you link to other news sites... | Jul 19 18:00 |
| Lefty | then the reasonable assumption is that you're a news site. | Jul 19 18:00 |
| Muttley | right, because that doesn't describe 50% of blogs ;) | Jul 19 18:01 |
| Lefty | Roy has a responsibility to tell the truth, one in which he's dismally failed. | Jul 19 18:01 |
| Lefty | Really? You a lawyer, Muttley? | Jul 19 18:01 |
| Muttley | I think you're going to be disappointed | Jul 19 18:01 |
| Lefty | Got much legal experience? | Jul 19 18:01 |
| Lefty | Let's hear about it. | Jul 19 18:01 |
| Muttley | Lefty: not really, but then neither are you so it's a void point | Jul 19 18:02 |
| Lefty | I'm a member of the FSF Europe's Legal and Licensing Network, and, I think, the only non-lawyer. | Jul 19 18:02 |
| Lefty | It's invitation-only, you know. | Jul 19 18:02 |
| HivenGlaven | he is obviously touting himself as a commentator and investigator of MS and Novell and anything else he wants too here. he's admitted that here many times. | Jul 19 18:02 |
| :) | Jul 19 18:02 | |
| Muttley | ok, so as a non-lawyer that means you know about UK libel laws | Jul 19 18:02 |
| Lefty | I am a recognized expert in open source licensing and intellectual property law, sonny. | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Muttley | right | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Muttley | again | Jul 19 18:03 |
| splosion | Appeal to authority. smooth | Jul 19 18:03 |
| David_Lee | Twitter: Andrew thinks the next battlefield will be the netbook and smartbooks. ARMs. | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Muttley | IP and OS licencing, not quite the same realm as libel | Jul 19 18:03 |
| splosion | s/to/from | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Lefty | I know a lot about UK libel laws. I know journalists aren't allowed to lie. | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Lefty | I know that they must correct errors that are brought to their attention. | Jul 19 18:03 |
| splosion | Lefty: you've never read any of our newspapers, I take it | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Muttley | really? have you read a UK tabloid recently? ;) | Jul 19 18:03 |
| Lefty | I know they can't print libel in flagrant disregard of the truth. | Jul 19 18:04 |
| David_Lee | He's really convinced on it. | Jul 19 18:04 |
| HivenGlaven | or read about the huge payouts the papers have to pay when they are cought out in a lie !! | Jul 19 18:04 |
| If Vista 7 continues along the lines of Vista, look for a new wave of retail failures or greatly lowered M$ revenue and profit. Channel stuffing is where the real fight is now. | Jul 19 18:04 | |
| Lefty | splosion, I take it you've managed to miss coverage of some of the massive libel awards made in the UK to folks--celebrities, mostly--who were libeled. | Jul 19 18:04 |
| Muttley | HivenGlaven: yeah, the huge payouts to extrememly wealthy celebs who have the money to pay for very good lawyers | Jul 19 18:05 |
| Lefty | It's even harsher when you libel someone who's not a "public figure". | Jul 19 18:05 |
| HivenGlaven | ahh yes, vista well over 200 million vista out there, and goign out the door at 20 million a month, not bad for a "failure". | Jul 19 18:05 |
| Lefty | I know plenty of good lawyers, and ROy will end up paying for them. | Jul 19 18:05 |
| David_Lee | And it's becoming more obvious-very sloppy | Jul 19 18:05 |
| M$ is cramming their crap down hard, this is how Netbooks and GNU/Linux have been excluded, but it's a losing strategy as the failure of CompUSA, Circuit City and others show. | Jul 19 18:05 | |
| Lefty | The winner in the UK gets his court costs. Didja know _that_? | Jul 19 18:05 |
| Muttley | Lefty: you get your costs paid for | Jul 19 18:06 |
| splosion | Lefty: a few high-profile cases does not negate the fact that the UK press is full of lies. every single day. Do some research http://the-sun-lies.blogspot.com/ | Jul 19 18:06 |
| Muttley | great | Jul 19 18:06 |
| Lefty | I don't have to correct the UK press, splosion, only Roy. | Jul 19 18:06 |
| Lefty | What's your point? | Jul 19 18:06 |
| Hardware makers like ASUS tried to prepare a line of computers for leaner times, but they got locked out. | Jul 19 18:06 | |
| Lefty | (Assuming you ctually have one, I mean...( | Jul 19 18:06 |
| Lefty | Still talking to yourself, Willy? | Jul 19 18:07 |
| splosion | Lefty: journalists aren't allowed to print lies, and yet they do *all the time*. That's the point | Jul 19 18:07 |
| Lefty | Don't wanna join in? Nothing to say? | Jul 19 18:07 |
| All the members of Taipei Computer Association have been stomped on. | Jul 19 18:07 | |
| David_Lee | Best Buy in Rochester said notebooks weren't selling too good. | Jul 19 18:07 |
| Lefty | That doesn't mean that you can't sue them and win. People do it all the time. Again, what's your point? | Jul 19 18:07 |
| Lefty | And as I said, it's proven that Roy's defamed me. He admitted it. | Jul 19 18:08 |
| David_Lee | But netbooks under 300 were. | Jul 19 18:08 |
| right | Jul 19 18:08 | |
| splosion | I already explained my point twice. Learn to read better | Jul 19 18:08 |
| Retail has a typical mark up of 100%. | Jul 19 18:08 | |
| ydkj | splosion: so what? they get sued and the same now happens to boy. | Jul 19 18:09 |
| There's not a lot of room for Windoze licenses in that kind of price. | Jul 19 18:09 | |
| Lefty | You didn't have a point, that's what I was telling you. | Jul 19 18:09 |
| Lefty | The fact that papers tell lies sometimes doesn't mean there are no defamation laws in the UK, and it's frankly moronic to suggest that it does. | Jul 19 18:09 |
| David_Lee | Not what Balmer wants, anyway | Jul 19 18:09 |
| Lefty | Most people won't be bothered to bring suit, unless the libe is _really_ damaging. | Jul 19 18:10 |
| Lefty | Roy's persuaded me he needs to be shut down. | Jul 19 18:10 |
| Ballmer can make a lot of wishes, but he won't get them. | Jul 19 18:10 | |
| splosion | Lefty: yes that's exactly what I said. I said there are no defamation laws in the UK. WELL DONE | Jul 19 18:10 |
| Lefty | HAHAHAHAHAHA | Jul 19 18:10 |
| Lefty | You _are_ an idiot, splosion. You do not know what you are talking about. | Jul 19 18:11 |
| David_Lee | Maybe that's why he's throwing the KFC win7 family pack | Jul 19 18:11 |
| The super sucker deal? Right. | Jul 19 18:11 | |
| David_Lee | Hey, PT Barnum said it right. "There's a sucker born every minute". | Jul 19 18:12 |
| I doubt people are going to be dumb enough to try to install Vista 7 themselves after the Vista fiasco | Jul 19 18:12 | |
| Lefty | splosion, evidently the UK-based guy who wrote this article last month didn't get the memo: | Jul 19 18:12 |
| Lefty | http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html | Jul 19 18:12 |
| Lefty | Are you _sure_ you know what you're talking about...? | Jul 19 18:12 |
| They are going to get Vista and Vista 7 with a new computer and no other way. | Jul 19 18:12 | |
| splosion | Jesus christ. Lefty, you're something else. Troll me on this one: the sky is not blue. | Jul 19 18:13 |
| HivenGlaven | gees i installed Vista, I cant remember having any issues at all, | Jul 19 18:13 |
| splosion | Go and fetch a link to prove that I'm wrong | Jul 19 18:13 |
| Lefty | What is it about you guys? You seem to think that "truth" is any damned fool thing that pops into your head and dribbles out of your mouth. | Jul 19 18:13 |
| Lefty | What's up with that? | Jul 19 18:13 |
| Lefty | splosion, try to stay on topic. | Jul 19 18:14 |
| Lefty | you said that there were no libel laws in the UK, right? | Jul 19 18:14 |
| HivenGlaven | I installed Win 7 put the CD in an went to bed, next morning it was all done. | Jul 19 18:14 |
| Even people with money don't want to spend more than $300 on a new computer. Does anyone really think people will buy a $300 computer and a $250 software pack? Ha. | Jul 19 18:14 | |
| Lefty | I mean you weren't, like, suddenly demonically possessed or something, right? | Jul 19 18:14 |
| The market is already saturated with Vista failure laptops. | Jul 19 18:15 | |
| Lefty | Try saying this: "I guess I was mistaken about that. Next time I should check first." | Jul 19 18:15 |
| Lefty | See, that's what an adult says. | Jul 19 18:15 |
| splosion | Christ in a sack | Jul 19 18:15 |
| splosion | you're brilliant. Keep going | Jul 19 18:15 |
| HivenGlaven | They think if they say it enough times, it will become true. | Jul 19 18:15 |
| Retailers have been dumping them out at less than $500 for the last two and a half years. | Jul 19 18:15 | |
| Lefty | "you're something else. Troll me on this one: the sky is not blue.", that's what a 3-year-old says. | Jul 19 18:16 |
| splosion | Lefty: The UK has no WHOOSH laws either | Jul 19 18:16 |
| It's an indication of how much people loath Vista and how saturated the hardware market it. | Jul 19 18:16 | |
| is | Jul 19 18:16 | |
| ydkj | twitter: and where is the 250$ software pack for the 300$ pc? | Jul 19 18:16 |
| David_Lee | Next purchase for the group will be from system76 | Jul 19 18:16 |
| Lefty | Let me know if you ever manage to find two neurons together and generate an actual thought, splosion. | Jul 19 18:16 |
| Lefty | I'm not placing high odds on it. | Jul 19 18:17 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.82.45.167) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 18:17 | |
| David_Lee | And for desktop, Zareason. | Jul 19 18:17 |
| splosion | Lefty: go back to troll school | Jul 19 18:17 |
| splosion | [18:08] <splosion> good old UK defamation laws. Pretty much the only place in the world where you can be sued for libel even if what you say is true. is this part of your decision to come to the UK, Lefty? | Jul 19 18:17 |
| Lefty | You really oughta try it, splosion. Builds character. Something you ccould sorely use. | Jul 19 18:17 |
| Lefty | Make me, Bluto. | Jul 19 18:18 |
| Lefty | No, it's because Roy's in the UK. | Jul 19 18:18 |
| splosion | Yeah, I know | Jul 19 18:18 |
| *Tallken (n=Tallken@93.102.90.166.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 18:18 | |
| Lefty | I could sue him in California, trivially--and I might anyway--but it's harder to collect the damages. | Jul 19 18:18 |
| Lefty | Huh. I thought you were saying they didn't _have_ libel laws in the UK, splosion. | Jul 19 18:19 |
| Lefty | Maybe you _are_ demonically possessed. | Jul 19 18:19 |
| splosion | How tall are you, Lefty. Because it seems there are some things that go right over your head. Jokes, sarcasm. What else? | Jul 19 18:20 |
| HivenGlaven | ahh the last refuge of a lier and truth bender, "its a joke, its sarcasm". | Jul 19 18:21 |
| Lefty | Right. | Jul 19 18:23 |
| Lefty | Where exactly were you being sarcastic, as opposed to just displaying your complete ignorance..? | Jul 19 18:23 |
| PJ's video collection is very nice but Snapdragon was just the start. | Jul 19 18:23 | |
| Lefty | I _did_ miss that. | Jul 19 18:23 |
| splosion | Ah, so, I state that UK libel laws are particularly strong. And then I say that in spite of that journalists hardly get sued. And Lefty takes that to mean "libels laws don't exist". I saw, "yes, that's right, WELL DONE." He finds a link to prove me wrong. Does this really need explaining? | Jul 19 18:23 |
| splosion | a/saw/say | Jul 19 18:23 |
| Lefty | I'm 1.83m, by the way, maybe 80 kg. or so. | Jul 19 18:23 |
| Lefty | How tall are _you_? | Jul 19 18:24 |
| splosion | Wow. I'm 183 cm. But I weigh only 70kg. You can beat me ups | Jul 19 18:24 |
| Lefty | As I said, it's unclear what your point is. | Jul 19 18:24 |
| Muttley | that seems to be going round | Jul 19 18:24 |
| Lefty | What does your (unsupported) assertion of what happens to other journalists have to do with anything? | Jul 19 18:25 |
| Lefty | Roy's _certainly_ going to wind up in court. And he's going to lose. Disastrously and completely. | Jul 19 18:25 |
| Lefty | See, being a pathological liar is going to count against him. | Jul 19 18:25 |
| Muttley | I think you're all talk tbh | Jul 19 18:25 |
| tacone | so you're going to sue him ? | Jul 19 18:25 |
| Muttley | tacone: apparently | Jul 19 18:26 |
| Lefty | Fine, Muttley, I don'r remember expressing a lot of concern for your opinion, such as it is. | Jul 19 18:26 |
| Muttley | as soon as he's finished going on about it non stop | Jul 19 18:26 |
| Muttley | Lefty: I didn't realise I needed permission to give it | Jul 19 18:26 |
| HivenGlaven | its not that hard or expensive to do | Jul 19 18:26 |
| splosion | Because I'm being pedantic. You say journalists aren't allowed to lie. I say yes, but they do. And that's it. That's all it ever was. It's a completely uninteresting footnote on the issue at hand, and you turn into a remarkable display of your lack of appreciation for sarcasm. Kudos | Jul 19 18:26 |
| Lefty | Gee, you really _are_ a bit slow, aren't you, tacone...? | Jul 19 18:26 |
| tacone | yes or not ? | Jul 19 18:26 |
| tacone | define "slow" | Jul 19 18:26 |
| HivenGlaven | they do, and if they are caught out and its proven they have they get sued, and they pay damages and costs. | Jul 19 18:27 |
| David_Lee | Twitter: Will catch up on GL later. Andrew said there was a link to Android Live CD on Stefano's blog. Get to get that. | Jul 19 18:27 |
| Lefty | "Thick as two planks and sharp as a sack of hammers" | Jul 19 18:27 |
| Lefty | Does that help? | Jul 19 18:27 |
| HivenGlaven | sharp as a tennis ball | Jul 19 18:28 |
| splosion | Can Android be run outside of a VM yet? | Jul 19 18:28 |
| Muttley | HivenGlaven: they only pay damages if it's proven they did it with malice. rather than they were just stupid | Jul 19 18:28 |
| tacone | you didn't answered my previous question. are you going to sue him even after rectifying ? | Jul 19 18:28 |
| Lefty | Roy's damages will be commensurate with his multiple libels of me, his acting in bad faith, and his masquerading as a journalist. | Jul 19 18:28 |
| Lefty | Not to mention the "millions of hits a day" he claims this site gets. | Jul 19 18:28 |
| HivenGlaven | and his "public" presence | Jul 19 18:28 |
| David_Lee | Don't know that yet, but will try it. | Jul 19 18:29 |
| HivenGlaven | yes that | Jul 19 18:29 |
| Lefty | splosion, "Can Android be run outside of a VM"...? | Jul 19 18:29 |
| Lefty | What are you talking about? | Jul 19 18:29 |
| Muttley | I'm yet to discover what's so damaging about being called pro-mono | Jul 19 18:29 |
| Lefty | Android is a (mutant) Java framework. It runs inside of the Dalvik VM. How's it going to "run outside a VM"...? | Jul 19 18:29 |
| David_Lee | Twitter: bbl | Jul 19 18:30 |
| splosion | I heard that the android live cd is almost impossible to get going on a regular desktop. I meant must it be installed on a virtual desktop | Jul 19 18:30 |
| *tacone is rewriting android in mono. monodroid | Jul 19 18:30 | |
| tacone | splosion: that's because of hardware support | Jul 19 18:30 |
| Lefty | It casts aspersions on my motivations with regard to my criticism of Stallman, it suggests that I'm insincere in those criticisms, and it portrays me as acting in collusion with some hazily-defined "pro-Mono" forces. | Jul 19 18:30 |
| mondroid? | Jul 19 18:30 | |
| tacone | that's why people run it on a vm | Jul 19 18:31 |
| mongloid? | Jul 19 18:31 | |
| Lefty | It's also in complete defiance of the easily-determinable facts. | Jul 19 18:31 |
| tacone | lol | Jul 19 18:31 |
| Lefty | That's called "a flagrant disregard for the truth", see? | Jul 19 18:31 |
| splosion | tacone: so not yet, then? That's cool. I can wait around for it | Jul 19 18:31 |
| Lefty | lol | Jul 19 18:31 |
| tacone | splosion: may or may not work. the livecd is an eee pc version | Jul 19 18:31 |
| Muttley | sounds more like school yard name calling | Jul 19 18:32 |
| Muttley | not sure how it's affected your trade or profession | Jul 19 18:32 |
| tacone | so it should run natively on a eee pc | Jul 19 18:32 |
| Lefty | Besides, you forgot, Muttley: Roy already _admitted_ that it was libel when he retracted it and apologized. | Jul 19 18:32 |
| Lefty | =D | Jul 19 18:32 |
| tacone | Lefty: i thought he did something much worse to tyou | Jul 19 18:32 |
| Muttley | no he didn't | Jul 19 18:32 |
| HivenGlaven | especially when the intent of posting lefty's boss's numbers on BN are taken into consideration, it might mean the end of BN | Jul 19 18:33 |
| tacone | he didn't. and even if that was under threat. | Jul 19 18:33 |
| Lefty | Well, you also forgot his colluding with Mark Fink to cause trouble for me at work, and then lying to me about that. | Jul 19 18:33 |
| tacone | i don't think it was roy himself to post those. was it ? | Jul 19 18:33 |
| Lefty | That's what started the whole thing. | Jul 19 18:33 |
| Lefty | So, if you don't like having me here, blame Roy. | Jul 19 18:34 |
| tacone | if that's just that, i think you'll have a though time in court | Jul 19 18:34 |
| HivenGlaven | he's done it before to other people, its a standard roy tackic to "out" people who dont agree with his mentality. | Jul 19 18:34 |
| Lefty | No it wasn't, tacone. I didn't hold a gun to his head. I told him I was going to institute legal action against him. | Jul 19 18:34 |
| Lefty | That's not a threat. | Jul 19 18:34 |
| Muttley | oh I enjoy having you here. the anti-mono trolls were getting really boring, it's nice seeing the other side of the coin ;) | Jul 19 18:34 |
| tacone | you posed conditions and he complied. | Jul 19 18:34 |
| Lefty | "I'll beat you up and shoot you if you don't do it", _that's_ a threat. | Jul 19 18:34 |
| Lefty is a liar, tacone, just ignore him. Any judge will look at the pile of crap he left at BN and laugh him out. | Jul 19 18:35 | |
| Lefty | You seem to have trouble with common English words. Are you not a native speaker? | Jul 19 18:35 |
| tacone | i think so twitter. i was just interested if there was more serious stuff. | Jul 19 18:35 |
| Lefty | Well, you don't know much, tacone. | Jul 19 18:35 |
| tacone | Lefty: not native. and slow, as you noted. | Jul 19 18:35 |
| Lefty | No, they won't twit, not at all. I used the site as it was intended to be used. | Jul 19 18:35 |
| HivenGlaven | and your such an expert in these matter too twitter | Jul 19 18:35 |
| You won't find out anything real talking to Lefty. He's just pumping for more dirt. | Jul 19 18:35 | |
| Lefty | Oh, I've got all the dirt I need. | Jul 19 18:36 |
| tacone | i see. | Jul 19 18:36 |
| Lefty | yeah, twitter's a real legal eagle. | Jul 19 18:36 |
| tacone | my opinion is you dig for more. | Jul 19 18:36 |
| Lefty | Hey, Willy, want to define "preponderance of the evidence" for us? | Jul 19 18:36 |
| HivenGlaven | there is enough "dirt" from roy to instigate a class action :D | Jul 19 18:36 |
| tacone | good luck with your court matters, i'm disconnecting. | Jul 19 18:36 |
| Lefty | I don't recall asking for your ignorant opinion, tacone, but thanks for putting your meaningless two cents in anyway! | Jul 19 18:37 |
| Lefty | Bye! | Jul 19 18:37 |
| HivenGlaven | its what OJ was convicted with in his civil wrongfull death case | Jul 19 18:37 |
| Lefty | Don't let the serial port hit you in the ass on your way out! | Jul 19 18:37 |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 19 18:38 | |
| Muttley | so what was the details they posted about you? | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Lefty | I thought he'd _never_ leave. | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | David "Lefty" Schlesinger | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | ACCESS Co., Ltd. | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | 1188 East Arques Avenue | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | Sunnyvale, CA 94085 | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | USA | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | 408-400-3000 | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Muttley | ? | Jul 19 18:38 |
| Lefty | One of Roy's trollettes attempted to intimidate me--around my criticism of your little deity, Stallman--by posting the contact details for my company, phone numbers, etc. | Jul 19 18:39 |
| HivenGlaven | what was the intent of the post ? the stated intent that is | Jul 19 18:39 |
| Lefty | After I'd made it excruciatingly clear that I represented no one here but myself. | Jul 19 18:39 |
| HivenGlaven | Roy's done the same thing before to others as well, and been wrong. | Jul 19 18:39 |
| Lefty | Yes, thanks for reposting it here, too! | Jul 19 18:39 |
| Lefty | Is it not clear that you can't intimidate me that way? | Jul 19 18:40 |
| Muttley | intimidate you? | Jul 19 18:40 |
| Lefty | That you simply annoy me, and that I'm going to take it out on Roy? | Jul 19 18:40 |
| Muttley | I got that from your website | Jul 19 18:40 |
| Muttley | if you don't want the information in the public domain why put it online? | Jul 19 18:40 |
| Lefty | Well, posting it into a comment is what convinced me that there was no hope of reaching some sort of agreement with Roy. | Jul 19 18:40 |
| HivenGlaven | from his web site did it say for you to call his boss and complain about him ? | Jul 19 18:41 |
| Lefty | He interfered, or attempted to, with my empolyment one. | Jul 19 18:41 |
| HivenGlaven | affecting his career and financial future and reputation in the industry | Jul 19 18:41 |
| Muttley | I've yet to find that comment | Jul 19 18:41 |
| Lefty | Now his little hyena pack (and that's _you_ I'm talking about, Muttley) are trying it again. | Jul 19 18:41 |
| Lefty | It won't work, knock yourself out. | Jul 19 18:41 |
| Lefty | Call em. Tell 'em "Lefty's being mean to us!" | Jul 19 18:41 |
| Muttley | I did find his apology and don't really see much acknowledgement of malice | Jul 19 18:42 |
| Lefty | They'll say, "Well, he's a private citizen, and he can do what he likes on his own time. Why are you calling us?" | Jul 19 18:42 |
| Lefty | There's a difference between putting it online for legitimate use, and posting it here or on BN as part of an ongoing effort to intimidate and harass. | Jul 19 18:43 |
| Lefty | o you have difficulty grasping that? | Jul 19 18:43 |
| HivenGlaven | clear as day to me | Jul 19 18:43 |
| Muttley | well as I said, I've not seen the comment and you don't want to post the url so I don't know what was really said | Jul 19 18:43 |
| Lefty | Muttley, you really don't know anything about libel. | Jul 19 18:43 |
| Lefty | I'm not a public figure. | Jul 19 18:43 |
| Lefty | I don't have to show malice on Roy's part. | Jul 19 18:43 |
| Lefty | Or didn't you _know_ that? | Jul 19 18:44 |
| Lefty | Not that I can't easily show it. I mean, look at his comments. | Jul 19 18:44 |
| Muttley | really? you make yourself sound pretty important on your website | Jul 19 18:44 |
| Muttley | you could pass as a public figure | Jul 19 18:44 |
| HivenGlaven | so what Muttley ? | Jul 19 18:44 |
| Lefty | It didn't seem that difficult to me, either, HivenGlaven. Muttley seems pretty slow, too. | Jul 19 18:44 |
| Lefty | Want me to define it again for you, Muttley? | Jul 19 18:44 |
| *desudesudesu (n=desu@unaffiliated/desu) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 18:44 | |
| Muttley | Lefty: no it's ok. | Jul 19 18:45 |
| Lefty | I'm not a public figure. | Jul 19 18:45 |
| *desudesudesu is now known as desu_ | Jul 19 18:45 | |
| HivenGlaven | Muttley by your logic anyone with a facebook account is a public figure, I say "go firuge"? | Jul 19 18:45 |
| Lefty | But, since I can demonstrate plenty of malice, what's your point here? | Jul 19 18:46 |
| Muttley | HivenGlaven: eh? | Jul 19 18:46 |
| Lefty | Assuming there was one... | Jul 19 18:46 |
| Muttley | HivenGlaven: that's not my logic at all | Jul 19 18:46 |
| Muttley | I'm not going to mass paste from his site but he mentions being on lots of boards and having given plenty of presentations | Jul 19 18:46 |
| Muttley | in the open source community surely you're a public figure | Jul 19 18:47 |
| HivenGlaven | great thats good, I dont see that as making him a public figure | Jul 19 18:47 |
| HivenGlaven | mabey a busy figure | Jul 19 18:47 |
| Lefty | hahahahahahaha! | Jul 19 18:48 |
| Lefty | "In the open source community you're a public figure"? | Jul 19 18:48 |
| Lefty | Are you perhaps aware that, in defamation law, "public figure" has a specific sort of a definition....? | Jul 19 18:48 |
| Muttley | Lefty: it's easier if you use copy and paste, then you don't miss important words | Jul 19 18:49 |
| Muttley | "a personage of great public interest or familiarity" | Jul 19 18:49 |
| Lefty | Well, when I'm dealing with someone with your level of intelligence, you're going to miss stuff anyway, so why should I work hard for you? | Jul 19 18:49 |
| Lefty | I can keep track, you can too if you work on that attention span and reading comprehension. | Jul 19 18:50 |
| Muttley | your line of business/trade which you feel may have been damaged in involves the open source community, in which you're a personage of public interest of familiarity | Jul 19 18:50 |
| Lefty | Yeah, the public is neither greatly familiar with me, nor do they have a great interest. Satisfied? | Jul 19 18:50 |
| Muttley | I have to wonder if the picture of your on your blog is actually your dad | Jul 19 18:50 |
| Lefty | Sigh. You're an idiot, Muttley. | Jul 19 18:50 |
| Muttley | because your level of insults really are child like | Jul 19 18:50 |
| Lefty | No, that's me. | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Muttley | do you have that strange diesese where you age backwards? | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Lefty | That's because I'm keeping that at a level you can manage. | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Lefty | Why don't you call me a "stupidhead"? | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Lefty | That'll _really_ upset me. | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Muttley | because that would be your level | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Muttley | so far I've not tried to insult your intellect | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Muttley | only your maturity | Jul 19 18:51 |
| Lefty | Well, it'd represent a big improvement for you. | Jul 19 18:52 |
| Lefty | By the way, he's removed it, I think--which won't help him, I have an accurate, time-stamped copy.... | Jul 19 18:52 |
| Muttley | seriosuly, when you have your day in court please let me know I'll be there to watch | Jul 19 18:52 |
| HivenGlaven | I find it annoying that people like Roy who does not work, but spends all his time trying to destroy people and businesses that employ tens of thousands of people feed and house those people, pay taxes and contribute to the economy. Roy will destroy them because he does not agree with them. | Jul 19 18:52 |
| *_Goblin (n=root@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 18:53 | |
| desu_ | HivenGlaven: and you're doing exactly that right now... | Jul 19 18:53 |
| splosion | oshi. I just check my discharge book. I'm 1.84m tall, apparently. Lefty, you just got one-upped | Jul 19 18:53 |
| splosion | s/check/checked | Jul 19 18:53 |
| HivenGlaven | For someone to suggest that they call someone elses boss and make trouble for them makes me quike ill really. | Jul 19 18:53 |
| Lefty | But Roy, in a fit of pique yesterday claimed that ACCESS and the LiMo Foundation were engaging in criminal activities with regard to my posting here. | Jul 19 18:53 |
| Lefty | I don't think he's got the evidence, do you? | Jul 19 18:53 |
| Lefty | Yeah, I think it' | Jul 19 18:54 |
| Lefty | Yeah, I think it's disgusting, HivenGlaven. | Jul 19 18:54 |
| trmanco | hello _Goblin | Jul 19 18:54 |
| _Goblin | Hi! | Jul 19 18:54 |
| Lefty | Seems like Muttley's just fine with it, since he reposted the same information here. | Jul 19 18:54 |
| desu_ | hello | Jul 19 18:54 |
| Lefty | You think that's right, Muttley? Trying to get someone fired over a disagreement on a Sunday afternoon in IRC? | Jul 19 18:54 |
| _Goblin | whats happening? anything exciting? | Jul 19 18:55 |
| Lefty | Hello, desu! | Jul 19 18:55 |
| splosion | Goblin: DRAMA | Jul 19 18:55 |
| desu_ | _Goblin: nothing much... just a few trolls... | Jul 19 18:55 |
| _Goblin | oh dear.... | Jul 19 18:55 |
| HivenGlaven | No all SNAFU here Goblin :) | Jul 19 18:55 |
| Lefty | Nihongo wo hanasemasu ka? | Jul 19 18:55 |
| desu_ | inai | Jul 19 18:55 |
| trmanco | w00t | Jul 19 18:55 |
| _Goblin | Talking of drama, BB was quite good this weekend... | Jul 19 18:55 |
| splosion | Lefty is asserting that the internet is serious business. Others disagree. Arguments ensue | Jul 19 18:55 |
| Lefty | Trolls!? Where? | Jul 19 18:55 |
| desu_ | see those tall, ugly, green guys with the clubs? | Jul 19 18:56 |
| HivenGlaven | Yes, the internet is not serious, there is no money or effort tied up in it at all. | Jul 19 18:56 |
| _Goblin | Ballmer? | Jul 19 18:56 |
| desu_ | they're trolls | Jul 19 18:56 |
| Lefty | No, I'm asserting that perpetrating libel in the guise of journalism, and trying to screw with people's live over technical differences of opinion is serious business. | Jul 19 18:56 |
| _Goblin | oh no, thats chairs not clubs | Jul 19 18:56 |
| trmanco | pointy ears? | Jul 19 18:56 |
| Lefty | Evidently splosion has a different view. Want to elucidate? | Jul 19 18:57 |
| fewa | HivenGlaven, says _Mutex_ who has been trolling for months | Jul 19 18:57 |
| HivenGlaven | by your definition sure im a troll, as I say things you dont agree with. | Jul 19 18:57 |
| Lefty | splosion, would you enjoy it if I called your boss to "get some answers" about what you're doing here? | Jul 19 18:57 |
| fewa | HivenGlaven, and ban evading | Jul 19 18:58 |
| HivenGlaven | So i guess like normal you'll kick me now right ? | Jul 19 18:58 |
| splosion | Lefty: go right ahead. I think he'd be rather amused | Jul 19 18:58 |
| Lefty | Or posted the contact information for _your_ place of work? | Jul 19 18:58 |
| Lefty | That just fine with you? | Jul 19 18:58 |
| Lefty | You think that's appropriate? | Jul 19 18:58 |
| _Goblin | This is like an episode of Hollyoaks | Jul 19 18:58 |
| HivenGlaven | if they actually worked for a living it would | Jul 19 18:58 |
| _Goblin | Moving on.....messing around with Compiz and Mepis for a nieghbour...... | Jul 19 18:59 |
| _Goblin | not a nice combination at the moment.... | Jul 19 18:59 |
| HivenGlaven | _Goblin it is after all what this irc is for, or would you prefer only "yes" people here all stroking each other ? | Jul 19 18:59 |
| desu_ | lulz | Jul 19 18:59 |
| desu_ | just use kwin instead :P | Jul 19 18:59 |
| Lefty | How about if I called Roy's thesis advisor at the University of Manchester and asked whether it was true that they gave post-grad degrees in Defamation? | Jul 19 18:59 |
| splosion | Lefty: the contact information that's public knowledge? Sheesh | Jul 19 18:59 |
| Lefty | Still good fun? | Jul 19 19:00 |
| _Goblin | HivenGlaven: Thats disgusting, please if you want to talk about stroking others go elsewhere. | Jul 19 19:00 |
| desu_ | _Goblin: why isn't HivenGlaven on your ignore list yet? | Jul 19 19:00 |
| HivenGlaven | I mean your ego !!! what were you thinking ?? | Jul 19 19:00 |
| _Goblin | and you can tell my boss that.... | Jul 19 19:00 |
| _Goblin | oh....I am my own boss.....you can tell me. | Jul 19 19:01 |
| Lefty | It's being public isn't the point. Should I post the name, email address and phone number of Roy's thesis advisor on every site I can find that dislikes Roy, if that makes the ethical conundrum here easier for you to grasp... | Jul 19 19:01 |
| Lefty | That's all public. | Jul 19 19:01 |
| _Goblin | desu_: I like to mess with them once in a while...... | Jul 19 19:01 |
| desu_ | _Goblin: no u | Jul 19 19:01 |
| desu_ | :< | Jul 19 19:02 |
| HivenGlaven | and then add a comment that everyone should message his prof and complain about Roy | Jul 19 19:02 |
| *desu_ pat-pats Lefty | Jul 19 19:02 | |
| _Goblin | desu_ I like qouting their comments when proving how desperate MS faithful are. | Jul 19 19:02 |
| Lefty | So, what do you think, Goblin? That sounds reasonable, or a bit excessive to you? | Jul 19 19:02 |
| Lefty | Right. | Jul 19 19:02 |
| Lefty | Anyone want to step up to the plate on that? | Jul 19 19:02 |
| _Goblin | Lefty: cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. | Jul 19 19:03 |
| desu_ | _Goblin: feeding the trolls means they win :< | Jul 19 19:03 |
| Lefty | So, no position pro or con, huh? | Jul 19 19:03 |
| desu_ | Lefty: you're the one who called RMS sexist, aren't you? ¬_¬ | Jul 19 19:03 |
| Lefty | I think you folks musta been raised by wolves or something. | Jul 19 19:03 |
| splosion | Totally fine. It's serious business | Jul 19 19:03 |
| HivenGlaven | whatever you do, the people who are right will win | Jul 19 19:03 |
| _Goblin | desu_ Not if you dont engage them in proper conversation...I can be just as silly back at them....I have a few pastes for generic remarks....just a quick hotkey away.... | Jul 19 19:03 |
| desu_ | oh | Jul 19 19:04 |
| Lefty | No, I called RMS' stupid little joke "sexist". Because it was. | Jul 19 19:04 |
| desu_ | it was just humour, i guess :/ | Jul 19 19:04 |
| Lefty | And it was wrong and out of place. | Jul 19 19:04 |
| splosion | Because *some people thought* it was, you mean | Jul 19 19:04 |
| _Goblin | wait for it....... | Jul 19 19:04 |
| desu_ | though i agree, women are retarded when it comes to computing, considering what i've seen in my colleagues ¬_¬ | Jul 19 19:04 |
| Lefty | He should never be asked to do a keynote again, as far as I'm concerned, unless he acknowledges the issues, apologizes and corrects them. | Jul 19 19:05 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.29.73.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 19:05 | |
| _Goblin | how long before a toe jam crack....... | Jul 19 19:05 |
| Omar87 | Hello there, fellows? | Jul 19 19:05 |
| _Goblin | Hi | Jul 19 19:05 |
| Lefty | Virtually everyone in the audience thought it was. The women absolutely did. | Jul 19 19:05 |
| desu_ | hey | Jul 19 19:05 |
| Muttley | _Goblin: you're going to jam your toe where? | Jul 19 19:05 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.248.202.192) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 19:05 | |
| Lefty | Oh, desu, you _are_ a fuckwit. | Jul 19 19:05 |
| Lefty | I can only assume that you' | Jul 19 19:05 |
| _Goblin | Muttley: Probably....... | Jul 19 19:05 |
| desu_ | that i...? | Jul 19 19:05 |
| Lefty | I can only assume that you've never actually _met_ a woman. | Jul 19 19:05 |
| desu_ | i have... i've met too many to know that for a fact women are retarded when it comes to computers | Jul 19 19:06 |
| splosion | So, rms shouldn't be allowed to speak in public again till he apologises for something that *some people* thought was sexist? | Jul 19 19:06 |
| splosion | So, what do you think, Lefty? That sounds reasonable, or a bit excessive to you? | Jul 19 19:06 |
| Lefty | I've never commented on Mr. Stallman's physical idiosyncracies, not ever. | Jul 19 19:06 |
| Lefty | No, not excessive at all, splosion. Someone should have done it years ago. | Jul 19 19:06 |
| Lefty | Are you aware that representation of woman in FLOSS is 2%? | Jul 19 19:07 |
| desu_ | Lefty: can you name ONE well know women hacker? | Jul 19 19:07 |
| _Goblin | Im a woman and so is my wife. | Jul 19 19:07 |
| desu_ | <Lefty> Are you aware that representation of woman in FLOSS is 2%? <--- yes, and the reason for that is pretty visible | Jul 19 19:07 |
| desu_ | D: | Jul 19 19:07 |
| Lefty | Sure, Danese Cooper, for starts. | Jul 19 19:07 |
| *desu_ apologises to _Goblin | Jul 19 19:07 | |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:07 |
| Lefty | Chani's another. | Jul 19 19:07 |
| Lefty | Celeste Lyn Paul. | Jul 19 19:07 |
| _Goblin | Monty Python humour... | Jul 19 19:07 |
| desu_ | -.- | Jul 19 19:07 |
| Lefty | Can you name the maintainer of the Linux kernel? | Jul 19 19:08 |
| _Goblin | what is this, who wants to be a millionare? | Jul 19 19:08 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a lot of women hacker | Jul 19 19:08 |
| desu_ | alan cox, iirc | Jul 19 19:08 |
| Muttley | his wife | Jul 19 19:08 |
| desu_ | or was it monty python? | Jul 19 19:08 |
| _Goblin | lefty: can I go 50/50 | Jul 19 19:08 |
| _Hicham_ | this is really a pointless discussion | Jul 19 19:08 |
| desu_ | or rms, i forget | Jul 19 19:08 |
| Lefty | The reason for is, desu, you moron, is that jokes like Stallman's make them _not want to be involved_ | Jul 19 19:08 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: Isn't it? | Jul 19 19:08 |
| _Hicham_ | who is still talking like that nowadays ? | Jul 19 19:08 |
| Muttley | but the important question remains. | Jul 19 19:08 |
| Lefty | Wrong. Andrew Morton. Whom I know. | Jul 19 19:08 |
| _Goblin | _hicham_ if it wastes the trolls time it isnt worthless. | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Muttley | are any of them hot? | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Lefty | Do you know him? | Jul 19 19:09 |
| desu_ | the reason for that is, Lefty, you moron, that they are in fact complete morons. | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Lefty | Do you know Greg K-H? | Jul 19 19:09 |
| desu_ | nope | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Lefty | Do you know Ted T'so? | Jul 19 19:09 |
| desu_ | i have met danese cooper, though | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Muttley | hot or not? | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Lefty | Muttley, you're a moron. | Jul 19 19:09 |
| _Goblin | Lefty: I met Stephen Fry once. | Jul 19 19:09 |
| desu_ | but just because you know over nine thousand people into hacking does not mean you're always right | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Lefty | You guys have nothing to do with FLOSS. | Jul 19 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | go to debian womens page, you will see a lot of hot women Muttley | Jul 19 19:09 |
| splosion | I told my girlfriend about rms' joke. She saw the religious meaning in it immediately. I showed her your endless bitchign about it, and she said you seem a bit of a prick, Lefty. She uses Linux, too. Bummer. | Jul 19 19:09 |
| Lefty | you're a bunch of backseat drivers. | Jul 19 19:10 |
| _Goblin | lol. | Jul 19 19:10 |
| _Goblin | thanks | Jul 19 19:10 |
| Lefty | I just named three of the most important kernel developers, you haven't heard of a single one. | Jul 19 19:10 |
| splosion | Another call from authority. | Jul 19 19:10 |
| _Goblin | oh dear | Jul 19 19:10 |
| desu_ | _Hicham_: lies... hot women are never into computing :( | Jul 19 19:10 |
| _Goblin | youre great lefty.... | Jul 19 19:10 |
| _Goblin | You are my hero | Jul 19 19:10 |
| desu_ | Lefty: i have heard of andrew morton | Jul 19 19:10 |
| Lefty | They're hot as hell, Muttley, but they wouldn't look twice at an asshole like you. | Jul 19 19:10 |
| HivenGlaven | I went to school and hacked z80's with craig southeren | Jul 19 19:10 |
| desu_ | but again | Jul 19 19:10 |
| desu_ | <desu_> but just because you know over nine thousand people into hacking does not mean you're always right | Jul 19 19:10 |
| splosion | Appeal from authority, desu | Jul 19 19:11 |
| Lefty | I'm not interested in your grilf's opinion, splosion. I mean, she's stupid enough to go out with _you_, what's _that_ say? | Jul 19 19:11 |
| _Goblin | Lefty: You are the best, can I keep you as a pet? | Jul 19 19:11 |
| desu_ | <Lefty> They're hot as hell, Muttley, but they wouldn't look twice at an asshole like you. <--- is that the reason you're raising such an issue over this? just so that you can get into their pants by showing how feminist you are? | Jul 19 19:11 |
| Lefty | Oh, you little parasites can't stand for anyone to criticize Stallman, even when they're clearly correct. | Jul 19 19:11 |
| desu_ | because they wouldn't look twice at an asshole like you, Lefty? | Jul 19 19:12 |
| Muttley | _Hicham_: damn, you're right. why don't any of them ever work at the places I've worked at ;) | Jul 19 19:12 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:12 |
| Lefty | You wouldn't like me as a pet, Goblin, I bite. Hard. Just ask Roy. | Jul 19 19:12 |
| _Goblin | lefty: Dont get annoyed....it will do your blood pressure no good... | Jul 19 19:12 |
| splosion | Your whole stance on the rms thing is pathetic, Lefty. You're trying to be some sort of courageous white knight, but really you're just being a pitiful, relentless, whining little bitch about it. | Jul 19 19:12 |
| *Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-c48a42572fa11b0d) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 19:12 | |
| _Goblin | hi chips..youre just in time...we have a cracker here..... | Jul 19 19:12 |
| _Goblin | meet Lefty....he's great. | Jul 19 19:13 |
| Lefty | Who's "annoyed" Goblin? I'm laughing our ass off at you. | Jul 19 19:13 |
| _Hicham_ | see this : http://women.debian.org/profiles/ | Jul 19 19:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Goblin, all | Jul 19 19:13 |
| _Goblin | thanks lefty | Jul 19 19:13 |
| Lefty | Hey, it's the Chump! | Jul 19 19:13 |
| Lefty | Hi,Chimp, want a nice banana? | Jul 19 19:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Its Lefty, the ACCESS shill | Jul 19 19:13 |
| _Goblin | where have we heard that? Microsoft watch maybe? | Jul 19 19:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Lefty | Jul 19 19:13 |
| _Goblin | Chips: Lefty's my pet....I claimed him...:) | Jul 19 19:14 |
| Lefty | Ooh, watch that! Roy got scared into taking it down overnight, not that it'll help him. | Jul 19 19:14 |
| desu_ | lol, like, FOUR gals at debian? | Jul 19 19:14 |
| Lefty | sigh. | Jul 19 19:14 |
| Lefty | see? | Jul 19 19:14 |
| desu_ | compared to what? over nine thousand other guys? | Jul 19 19:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, yes. Its sad when a LInux applicance company resorts to shilling of the lowest order | Jul 19 19:14 |
| Lefty | This is _exactly_ why I called Stallman on his stupid joke. | Jul 19 19:14 |
| _Goblin | good for you. | Jul 19 19:14 |
| desu_ | Lefty: you're just trying to be a bitch, trying to show that you support feminists. | Jul 19 19:15 |
| Lefty | It encourages dolts like you to act like assholes, and that means fewer women in FLOSS. | Jul 19 19:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you insulted RMS over someghing if minor value | Jul 19 19:15 |
| desu_ | Lefty: so, you want more women in FOSS? they'll still not go out with you, though... | Jul 19 19:15 |
| Lefty | desu, you're just trying to get into Stallman's pants. | Jul 19 19:15 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: Don't you have anything to do than loading the channel with your pointless B-S? | Jul 19 19:15 |
| desu_ | Lefty: nice try, asshole... but i'm not gay. | Jul 19 19:15 |
| Lefty | Kiss my ass, Shemp, I can _criticise_ anyone I like. | Jul 19 19:15 |
| _Goblin | lol...Lefty I think youre jealous. | Jul 19 19:15 |
| Lefty | Not me. | Jul 19 19:16 |
| _Hicham_ | http://www.linuxchix.org/ | Jul 19 19:16 |
| Lefty | He's all yours. | Jul 19 19:16 |
| _Goblin | lefty: I am surprised that someone of your awesome intelligence has not realized that everyone here is simply making fun of you... | Jul 19 19:16 |
| splosion | Hey Lefty, women don't belong in FOSS. They belong in the kitchen. | Jul 19 19:16 |
| _Hicham_ | great news : solang is now available for fedora 11 users | Jul 19 19:16 |
| desu_ | <_Goblin> lol...Lefty I think youre jealous. <--- seems like Lefty's playing hard to want... | Jul 19 19:16 |
| Muttley | _Hicham_: with a url like that I was expecting photos chicks in tight little tux tshirts | Jul 19 19:16 |
| Muttley | I'm disappointed :( | Jul 19 19:17 |
| Lefty | I'm surprised that you haven't realized that I'm collecting all of this to demoonstrate what a bunch of worthless toads all you folks are. | Jul 19 19:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Personally, Lefty, I think Roy, has been very nice to you, Its obvious you are here shilling on behave of ACCESS. Roy has already complained to the FTC about MS Shills. Only reason I bet he hasn't complained about ACCESS shilling, is they are Linux applicance | Jul 19 19:17 |
| _Goblin | If Lefty wants to get close to Stallman, maybe we could email him on Lefty's behalf...? | Jul 19 19:17 |
| Lefty | Chimp, you think you read a lot of pro-Mono stuff on my web site. Who cares what you "think"? | Jul 19 19:17 |
| splosion | Lefty: make sure to snip that bit of the conversation where you failed to grok sarcasm | Jul 19 19:17 |
| Lefty | Go for it, Goblin. | Jul 19 19:17 |
| _Goblin | Lefty, go for it....All you've done is be insulting...Stallmans comments have nothing to do with us. You are simply trolling and we are wasting your time. | Jul 19 19:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Myself, I would file a complaint Against ACCESS for sending you over here to Shill | Jul 19 19:18 |
| desu_ | Lefty: your just being here shows how much you fail. | Jul 19 19:18 |
| Lefty | Roy's "FTC complaint" is ludicrous. It definitely won't go anywhere. | Jul 19 19:18 |
| _Goblin | I too am logging this.....You'll be on Openbytes shortly. | Jul 19 19:18 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: Don't you have anything better to do than loading the channel with your pointless B-S? | Jul 19 19:18 |
| Lefty | He claimed that ACCESS and the LiMo Foundation were engaged in criminal activity, a claim you'd seem to be repeating here, Chump. | Jul 19 19:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | don't get this guy any bandwidth Goblin | Jul 19 19:18 |
| Lefty | Got some evidence to go with that? | Jul 19 19:18 |
| desu_ | Muttley: it's okay... most chicks into linux aren't hot either, anyways... | Jul 19 19:18 |
| _Goblin | Omar87: No he doesnt.... | Jul 19 19:18 |
| Muttley | desu_: some of those debian ones would give a dog a bone | Jul 19 19:19 |
| _Goblin | My wife is....she uses Mandriva! | Jul 19 19:19 |
| desu_ | Lefty: excuse my ignorance, but can you give me a link to the page where he claims that? | Jul 19 19:19 |
| Lefty | No, I've got a lot of free time to engage in philiosophical discussion with al you deep thinkers. | Jul 19 19:19 |
| Lefty | Great, huh? | Jul 19 19:19 |
| desu_ | Muttley: i said "most", not all... | Jul 19 19:19 |
| Muttley | hehe | Jul 19 19:19 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: For example, one really great favor you can do to humanity is go have a quick little sip of cyanide. | Jul 19 19:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I bet you do | Jul 19 19:20 |
| _Goblin | :) | Jul 19 19:20 |
| desu_ | 2 out of the 7 gals we have in our class of 60 are pretty hot in fact... | Jul 19 19:20 |
| Lefty | He removed it overnight, desu. Doesn't matter, I still have a time-stamped copy. | Jul 19 19:20 |
| Lefty | People may want to talk to him about that. | Jul 19 19:20 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: Or jump off Brooklyn Bridge... | Jul 19 19:20 |
| _Goblin | great. | Jul 19 19:20 |
| desu_ | Lefty: can i have a copy of that please? i haven't seen it yet... | Jul 19 19:20 |
| Lefty | Make me, Omar. | Jul 19 19:20 |
| Lefty | No, desu, you can't. | Jul 19 19:20 |
| _Goblin | Lefty....if I make a room will you come and chat there too? | Jul 19 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | what a great conversation _Goblin | Jul 19 19:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Why doesn't Roy dropkick this turd off the channel? | Jul 19 19:20 |
| desu_ | well, no evidence coming from you, either. | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Lefty | It's got nothing to do with you, you're just a bystander. | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Lefty | something wrong with here, Goblin? | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Lefty | I'm quite comfy. | Jul 19 19:21 |
| _Goblin | nothing at all... | Jul 19 19:21 |
| HivenGlaven | Chip like he does to everyone who does not agree with him ? | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Muttley | Chips_B_Malroy: if he did that then I'd just get to listen to you guys bitch about MS and Mono ;) | Jul 19 19:21 |
| _Goblin | I thought you were my pet now. | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so you have no friends Lefty | Jul 19 19:21 |
| desu_ | Lefty: okay, in your own words, what exactly happened? | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: I'm not interested in wasting my time convincing/forcing you to do anything. I'm just giving you a brotherly advice man. | Jul 19 19:21 |
| Lefty | I don't have to show you my evidence, desu. I do have to show it to a couple of legal departments tomorrow. | Jul 19 19:21 |
| _Hicham_ | they are lucky that schestowitz is not here | Jul 19 19:22 |
| *desu_ agrees | Jul 19 19:22 | |
| _Goblin | true. | Jul 19 19:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you drinking a lot these days lefty? | Jul 19 19:22 |
| _Goblin | where is he? | Jul 19 19:22 |
| HivenGlaven | I bet he is here. | Jul 19 19:22 |
| desu_ | rl, probably... | Jul 19 19:22 |
| Lefty | Chimp, you're an idiot. I've got _hundreds_ of friends. I just spent the last week in Gran Canaria with them. | Jul 19 19:22 |
| Lefty | What are you talking about? | Jul 19 19:22 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:22 |
| desu_ | ouch... seems like Chips_B_Malroy touched a nerve... | Jul 19 19:22 |
| splosion | Let's have a more intellectual discussion, shall, we gents? Call a truce? Anyone have some good ideas for a new subject? Lefty's face is an entire goat. How about that? | Jul 19 19:23 |
| _Goblin | Ive got thousands of friends........how old are you lefty? | Jul 19 19:23 |
| Omar87 | Chips_B_Malroy: No man, Wine and Vodka are not that powerful.. He's probably doing Cocaine of Heroin. | Jul 19 19:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Jul 19 19:23 |
| HivenGlaven | he said, he's going to the gym as it closes are 7:00 | Jul 19 19:23 |
| Omar87 | Chips_B_Malroy: *or* Heroin. | Jul 19 19:23 |
| HivenGlaven | damn my really really good memory | Jul 19 19:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Omar87 I think he is a speeder | Jul 19 19:23 |
| Omar87 | lol | Jul 19 19:23 |
| Lefty | I told you: Roy, in a fit of pique yesterday, printed a story claiming that ACCESS and the LiMo Foundation were engqaged in "Criminal activity" based on my posting comments on a site designed to let people post comments. | Jul 19 19:23 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:24 |
| _Goblin | oh dear | Jul 19 19:24 |
| Lefty | No, I don't drink, Chimp. | Jul 19 19:24 |
| _Goblin | really? You a silicon based lifeform? | Jul 19 19:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you are a shill for ACCESS and have printed the prove on this site | Jul 19 19:24 |
| Lefty | I'm 53, and I know _lots_ of people in the FLOSS community. It's what I _do_. | Jul 19 19:24 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: Oh wait! You have LOTS of friends? Then what the hell are you doing with us?? | Jul 19 19:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you have permission from your boss | Jul 19 19:24 |
| Lefty | Permission from my boss for _what_, Chimp? | Jul 19 19:25 |
| _Goblin | omar87: Maybe he means us. | Jul 19 19:25 |
| Lefty | It's Sunday, I'm on my own time. | Jul 19 19:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Actually, Lefty, unlike you I do have real friends | Jul 19 19:25 |
| HivenGlaven | arnt goblin's another name for a troll ? or is that hobgoblin ?? LOL | Jul 19 19:25 |
| Lefty | I don't need to ask my boss for permission. | Jul 19 19:25 |
| _Goblin | yep | Jul 19 19:25 |
| _Goblin | Although, I'm very friendly.... | Jul 19 19:25 |
| splosion | "[19:45] <Lefty> I don't need to ask my boss for permission." -- Lefty talking about hookers | Jul 19 19:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | everyone remember reading that about his bosses permission? | Jul 19 19:25 |
| _Goblin | ask Andre Da Costa. | Jul 19 19:25 |
| Lefty | Look, Chimp, if you think that telling me I have no friends, when I spent the last week hangin out with (a random selection)... | Jul 19 19:25 |
| Lefty | Matthew Garret | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Dave Neary | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Matt Zimmerman | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Paul Cutler | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | what is this? | Jul 19 19:26 |
| desu_ | orgy~! | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Omar87 | _Goblin: Also, maybe his friends got sick of how much of a pain in the butt he is. | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Celeste Lyn Paul | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | a how many friends competition? | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Andre Klapper | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Christian Schaller | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Adrian de Groot | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | Hulk Hogan | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | Paris Hilton | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Tim Janik | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | Britney Spears | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Karl Lattimer | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | Paul Gadd | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Rob Bradford | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I say this nutter has gone too far, and Roy would be well within his rights to file a complaint after all the threats | Jul 19 19:26 |
| desu_ | lol, ignore my previous comment, plox... some of you might take it way too seriously than intended :/ | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Rob Taylor | Jul 19 19:26 |
| _Goblin | Michael Jackson | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Rob McQueen | Jul 19 19:26 |
| Lefty | Philippe Kalaf | Jul 19 19:27 |
| _Goblin | OJ Simpson | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | Hellen Hunt | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | Aaron Bockover | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | Chani | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | Ben Stiller | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | Stormy Peters | Jul 19 19:27 |
| _Goblin | Jackie Chan | Jul 19 19:27 |
| desu_ | Pamela Anderson | Jul 19 19:27 |
| _Goblin | Boy George | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | Serena Williams | Jul 19 19:27 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | David Letterman. | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | Larry King | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | WEll, Chimp wanted to know about my friends, right? | Jul 19 19:27 |
| _Goblin | ....Kylie Minogue | Jul 19 19:27 |
| splosion | [19:48] <Lefty> All of the people I just named. I hate them. | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | And let Roy file a complaint. | Jul 19 19:27 |
| splosion | That's shocking | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | Alex Kava | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | To whom? | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Lefty | About what? | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Omar87 | Dan Brown | Jul 19 19:27 |
| mikankun | lol this is the most entertainment I've ever seen in this room | Jul 19 19:27 |
| Muttley | becareful, some of those people you named by sue for defamation ;) | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Muttley | woah | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Muttley | might | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Lefty | Well, see, I'm bringing you more than Roy ever has. You'll like it when I own the site. | Jul 19 19:28 |
| _Goblin | Muttley: How? | Jul 19 19:28 |
| HivenGlaven | so much better than people posting how much they hate MS 24/7 | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Muttley | wow, total keyboard spaz | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Lefty | Lots of pictures of kittens,I think. | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he needs help, so he comes here for the help, I guess | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Muttley | _Goblin: because he said they were his friends ;) | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Omar87 | lol | Jul 19 19:28 |
| splosion | Can we go back to name-dropping? I know how to spell Arnold Schwarzenegger | Jul 19 19:28 |
| Lefty | So, tell me: do any of you know who _any_ of those folks I named were? | Jul 19 19:29 |
| _Goblin | Muttley: Do you understand the defamation laws? | Jul 19 19:29 |
| desu_ | can't we have a civil discussion here? | Jul 19 19:29 |
| Lefty | (There's a point here.) | Jul 19 19:29 |
| HivenGlaven | how ??? | Jul 19 19:29 |
| _Hicham_ | http://linux-chicks.arny.ro/ | Jul 19 19:29 |
| desu_ | BRING IN THE STRIPPERS! | Jul 19 19:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | everything Lefty does is to show how important he is | Jul 19 19:29 |
| Lefty | Oh, and I saw Danese Cooper at the Community Leadership Summit yesterday. | Jul 19 19:29 |
| mikankun | Stormy Peters is the only one I recognized | Jul 19 19:29 |
| _Goblin | I saw Elvis.... | Jul 19 19:29 |
| splosion | WOW, Lefty, yet another appeal to authority. You really know how to win a debate | Jul 19 19:29 |
| Muttley | _Goblin: oh god, please tell me you're joking because I was and it's almost 3am here and I'm too tired to go through this again ;) | Jul 19 19:29 |
| _Goblin | lol. | Jul 19 19:29 |
| splosion | s/to/from | Jul 19 19:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | see how many friends Lefty makes here | Jul 19 19:29 |
| Lefty | Okay, Stormy is the executive director of the GNOME Foundation. | Jul 19 19:30 |
| _Goblin | Yes, I think its safe to say in a UK village of 200 population, I didnt see Elvis. | Jul 19 19:30 |
| Lefty | The rest are _extremely well-known hackers and developers, from both the GNOME and KDE communities_ | Jul 19 19:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so why all the free time now Lefty, are you being fired at ACCESS or something | Jul 19 19:30 |
| Lefty | _Anyone_ involved in FLOSS has heard of most of those folks. | Jul 19 19:30 |
| Muttley | I'm sure there's an x-men joke in there | Jul 19 19:30 |
| Lefty | You people, of course, have not. | Jul 19 19:30 |
| _Goblin | of course | Jul 19 19:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | namedropping again to prove how big he is | Jul 19 19:31 |
| splosion | Lefty knows more FOSS people than you do, _Goblin. That means he's right about everything. ALl the time. | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Omar87 | Okay, I also know Jim Carry | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | condisending to the max | Jul 19 19:31 |
| _Goblin | oh yeah,.....sorry I forgot... | Jul 19 19:31 |
| _Goblin | :) | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Lefty | Because you're not involved. You just like to pretend you're involved with your "advocacy", which is perceived universally as a worthless waste of time. | Jul 19 19:31 |
| *Muttley goes back to trying to remember the password to the webserver | Jul 19 19:31 | |
| _Goblin | ok | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Omar87 | Jeniffer Lopez | Jul 19 19:31 |
| splosion | "[19:50] <Lefty> You people, of course, have not." -- Lefty on taking drugs | Jul 19 19:31 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Lefty | Chimpo, don't you get it? I DON'T WANT TO MAKE FRIENDS HERE. | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Omar87 | Andy Roddic | Jul 19 19:31 |
| Omar87 | Petter Sampras | Jul 19 19:32 |
| mikankun | not knowing a list of names you posted has nothing to do with being involved in the community | Jul 19 19:32 |
| _Goblin | thats probably just as well lefty | Jul 19 19:32 |
| Lefty | I WOULDN'T BEFRIEND ANY OF YOU. | Jul 19 19:32 |
| _Goblin | lol# | Jul 19 19:32 |
| trmanco | that's nice | Jul 19 19:32 |
| desu_ | Lefty: then why are you here? :/ | Jul 19 19:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, I get that, but I don't see anywhere online where you want to make friends, except with the other trolls like Gary Flatfish | Jul 19 19:32 |
| _Goblin | Desu_ Dont make sensible comments please. | Jul 19 19:32 |
| Lefty | Why not? | Jul 19 19:32 |
| Lefty | It's a good laugh watching you folks scurry around. | Jul 19 19:32 |
| desu_ | _Goblin: why not? :< | Jul 19 19:32 |
| splosion | "[19:52] <Lefty> Why not?" -- Lefty on being racist | Jul 19 19:32 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: It's not like anyone in the world, let alone this channel, would be dying to have such pain the butt like you as friend. Am I right guys? | Jul 19 19:33 |
| Lefty | your idiot statements on women were something, desu. | Jul 19 19:33 |
| _Goblin | desu_ lol. Because I am enjoying the madness of Lefty! | Jul 19 19:33 |
| David_Lee | Wasn't Lefty supposed to leave for the Jono Bacon's Community Leadership summit? | Jul 19 19:33 |
| desu_ | Lefty: it's true. | Jul 19 19:33 |
| desu_ | you know it as well as i do... | Jul 19 19:33 |
| Omar87 | to have such *a* *in* the | Jul 19 19:33 |
| Lefty | Well, Chimp, that's cause you're a dope, and you wouldn't know where to look. | Jul 19 19:33 |
| splosion | "[19:52] <Lefty> your idiot statements on women were something, desu." -- Lefty on desu's positive attitudes towards feminism | Jul 19 19:33 |
| desu_ | only one in a hundred of them can actually program. | Jul 19 19:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Lefty becomes a Buddist and trys to learn Japanese so he can sux up to those who run ACCESS | Jul 19 19:33 |
| desu_ | and i can bet any female will agree with me on this | Jul 19 19:33 |
| Lefty | Fabulous. | Jul 19 19:33 |
| _Goblin | lefty: Please can you insult me a little, I feel left out. | Jul 19 19:33 |
| Lefty | I've got a cold, I texted Jono to tell him I need to give it a miss. | Jul 19 19:34 |
| splosion | "[19:53] <Lefty> Fabulous." -- Lefty on the Nazis | Jul 19 19:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he will get around to you Goblin, just be patent | Jul 19 19:34 |
| splosion | "[19:54] <Lefty> I've got a cold, I texted Jono to tell him I need to give it a miss." -- Lefty on orgies | Jul 19 19:34 |
| Lefty | You can verify that I'm on the attendee list, if you're skeptical. | Jul 19 19:34 |
| _Goblin | oh ok...Ill have a smoke then. | Jul 19 19:34 |
| Lefty | "only one in a hundred of them can actually program." | Jul 19 19:34 |
| Lefty | Really? | Jul 19 19:34 |
| trmanco | _Goblin, smoking kills | Jul 19 19:34 |
| desu_ | yes | Jul 19 19:34 |
| _Hicham_ | _Goblin : have another cigarette there ? | Jul 19 19:35 |
| desu_ | and, just for the record, i'm not talking about just writing code | Jul 19 19:35 |
| Lefty | So, why is there such a higher percentage of women in security and proprietary programming than in FLOSS, hm? | Jul 19 19:35 |
| desu_ | Lefty: sources. | Jul 19 19:35 |
| desu_ | Lefty: sources please. | Jul 19 19:35 |
| desu_ | citation needed | Jul 19 19:35 |
| fewa | ie your full of shit | Jul 19 19:35 |
| David_Lee | Too much noise, bye | Jul 19 19:35 |
| _Hicham_ | Lefty is an experienced troll | Jul 19 19:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hey Goblin, did you read that Andre is Mr DEE, I found the link again | Jul 19 19:35 |
| Lefty | Get onto Google and do a search on FLOSSPOLS, desu. Read section 16. | Jul 19 19:35 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: What exactly are you trying to get to here? | Jul 19 19:36 |
| desu_ | Lefty: i'm not gonna do homework for you. | Jul 19 19:36 |
| desu_ | Lefty: link me | Jul 19 19:36 |
| splosion | a date | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Lefty | _you_, Omar. | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: What does that have to do with Mono or Microsoft? | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Lefty | I'm trying to get to _you_ | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Lefty | Get onto Google, you lazy dope. | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Lefty, btw I live in Nevada if thats any help to you | Jul 19 19:36 |
| desu_ | Lefty: fuck off this channel, you lazy ass | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: Or is it just a matter of pointlessly criticizing RMS? | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so if you want to threatren me or anything | Jul 19 19:36 |
| Lefty | Why would that be any help to me, Chump? | Jul 19 19:37 |
| Lefty | Just another reason to stay the hell out of Nevada. | Jul 19 19:37 |
| splosion | "[19:56] <Lefty> Why would that be any help to me, Chump?" -- Lefty on Africa | Jul 19 19:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you know you like to threatren to sue and all | Jul 19 19:37 |
| Lefty | Oh, make me, Bluto. | Jul 19 19:37 |
| splosion | "[19:57] <Lefty> Just another reason to stay the hell out of Nevada." -- Lefty on the poor | Jul 19 19:37 |
| mikankun | lol | Jul 19 19:37 |
| Lefty | No, I don't need to sue you, Chump. I've got little Roy for that. | Jul 19 19:38 |
| _Goblin | and how will you do that lefty? | Jul 19 19:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Sorry its not closer to ACCESS, or we, and your boss could just sit down in person and have a nice discussion, would you like that? | Jul 19 19:39 |
| Lefty | ask Roy whether _he_ thinks I'm serious, hm? | Jul 19 19:39 |
| Lefty | Go check the log. | Jul 19 19:39 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: <(09:56:15 PM) Lefty: Get onto Google, you lazy dope.> <- Who are talking about here? | Jul 19 19:39 |
| Omar87 | Who are *you* talking about... | Jul 19 19:39 |
| _Goblin | I don't think Lefty knows who or what he is talking about. | Jul 19 19:39 |
| Lefty | I'd _love_ that, Chimp. You've got the address, you _posted_ it (in the hopes that somebody else would "get me in trouble" on your behalf, you miserable coward). | Jul 19 19:40 |
| _Goblin | I'm waiting...How do you intend to sue Roy? | Jul 19 19:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, yes the drugs | Jul 19 19:40 |
| Omar87 | _Goblin: He's gotta be really high man. | Jul 19 19:40 |
| Lefty | I'm talking about desu | Jul 19 19:40 |
| _Goblin | omar87: Yeah I can tell....I am really frightened of him. | Jul 19 19:40 |
| Lefty | well, you guys keep tellin' yourselves that. Ask Roy what he thinks. | Jul 19 19:41 |
| _Goblin | Come on Lefty, tell us. | Jul 19 19:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | And Lefty, I don't regret posting ACCESS address at all, | Jul 19 19:41 |
| _Goblin | I will represent Roy then. | Jul 19 19:41 |
| Lefty | I've explained in a good amount of detail already, Goblin, read the log. | Jul 19 19:41 |
| Lefty | You _can_ manage to read the log, right? | Jul 19 19:41 |
| _Goblin | I don't need to. | Jul 19 19:41 |
| Lefty | Or ask Roy. | Jul 19 19:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, has more important things to do than waste his time with a drunk | Jul 19 19:41 |
| Lefty | Well, then why do you need to ask me? | Jul 19 19:42 |
| _Goblin | Because lefty, I wanted to hear the sillyness in realtime. | Jul 19 19:42 |
| Lefty | No, he doesn't, Chimp. | Jul 19 19:42 |
| Lefty | Not at all. | Jul 19 19:42 |
| splosion | Lefty's been here all afternoon | Jul 19 19:42 |
| _Goblin | I can't challenge a log can I Lefty? | Jul 19 19:42 |
| splosion | "[16:42] <Lefty> I agree, by the way." -- Lefty on the Final Solution | Jul 19 19:42 |
| Omar87 | Left: Same here Lefty. | Jul 19 19:42 |
| Lefty | Well, you'll need to live in disappointment, then, won't you? | Jul 19 19:42 |
| _Goblin | not really Lefty. | Jul 19 19:42 |
| desu_ | bah | Jul 19 19:42 |
| desu_ | this discussion is going nowhere | Jul 19 19:43 |
| _Goblin | only in that I will be deprived of a cheap laugh at you. | Jul 19 19:43 |
| desu_ | why can't we jsut all /ignore each other pelase? | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Lefty | I don't care wht you challenge, Goblin, just as I don't have to prove anything to Muttley. | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | this guy needs to check into dehab | Jul 19 19:43 |
| trmanco | never tried that irc command | Jul 19 19:43 |
| _Goblin | but you are still going to sue Roy...? LOL. | Jul 19 19:43 |
| trmanco | maybe it's a good time to try it | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Lefty | ROy's attorney can (try to) challenge the evidence, but I don't think he's going to have much luck. | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Muttley | _Goblin: so he says | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Muttley | but no one believes it | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | get out the rubber waitcoat for Lefty | Jul 19 19:43 |
| Lefty | Any competent lawyer--to bad he doesn't have one--would have told him to try to settle already. | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Omar87 | Lefty: Then what, on Earth, are you still doing in this channel until now? | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Lefty | Like I said, you don't need to believe it. | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | kick ban and file the shill conplaint | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Lefty | _Roy_ believes it. | Jul 19 19:44 |
| _Goblin | he's trying to convince us of a case against Roy. | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | cause he been warned | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Muttley | but I want to see it | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Lefty | Otherwise, why'd he post the retraction and apology, hm? | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Muttley | I'll come to court and sit there and watch | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Muttley | because it's the easy way to avoid court | Jul 19 19:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | this guy is all about BS | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and attenttion | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Muttley | and probably saved his bacon | Jul 19 19:45 |
| _Goblin | Lefty: If you had a case against Roy, then you would have had advice to avoid this channel, not engage in it....thats basics. | Jul 19 19:45 |
| mikankun | why are you here lefty? if you hate this place so much why spend all this time here? | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Lefty | Fine, Muttley. I'll bring a friend who liked your comments about women. She's interested in taking a cattle prod to you. | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Omar87 | Chips_B_Malroy: Bull Crap, just to be more accurate. :) | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Muttley | what were my comments? | Jul 19 19:45 |
| _Goblin | Lefty: If you had a case against Roy, then you would have had advice to avoid this channel, not engage in it....thats basics. | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Lefty | Are you an attorney, Goblin? | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Lefty | Got any legal training? | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Muttley | I asked if they were hot, I was pointed to a webpage and then agreed they were | Jul 19 19:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mikankun, its because Lefty hates everyone. | Jul 19 19:45 |
| _Goblin | sue Roy. Find out. | Jul 19 19:45 |
| splosion | Another appeal from authority. Stellar stuff | Jul 19 19:46 |
| Muttley | but seriously. let me know the court date. I'll be there to watch | Jul 19 19:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Omar87 you should it better than I | Jul 19 19:46 |
| Lefty | I don't hate anyone. I don't even hate Toy. I just think he (and you, and this site) destroy community. | Jul 19 19:46 |
| Lefty | I'm gonna stop it. | Jul 19 19:46 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jul 19 19:46 |
| Omar87 | Chips_B_Malroy: I didn't get it. | Jul 19 19:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have never seen you say anything nice about anyone | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Lefty | Jul 19 19:47 |
| mikankun | you say that as if you're some sort of floss super hero | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | get it | Jul 19 19:47 |
| schestowitz | I've just gotten back from the gym and glimpsed at the log. Lefty is obviously here to provoke, hoping to receive something to make slime with and to make matters worse he libeled me here repeatedly (accused me of things that I did not do over and over again). We can't have ubertrolls here, sorry. | Jul 19 19:47 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-5859bec2e3e8d88c | Jul 19 19:47 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Lefty from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 19:47 | |
| _Goblin | aww... | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | YES< THANK YOU | Jul 19 19:47 |
| _Goblin | I was enjoying that. | Jul 19 19:47 |
| schestowitz | He's not sober | Jul 19 19:47 |
| trmanco | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh | Jul 19 19:47 |
| desu_ | lol | Jul 19 19:47 |
| trmanco | I was just about to ignore him | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: You're finally here! | Jul 19 19:47 |
| desu_ | it took too long :/ | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | speed freak I think | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Welcome back! :D | Jul 19 19:47 |
| mikankun | lol you ruined his day | Jul 19 19:47 |
| Muttley | oh well, off to bed for me then | Jul 19 19:48 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.82.45.167) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 19:48 | |
| schestowitz | Took me 10 minutes to just gets a quick look at some of his outragous lies | Jul 19 19:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | speeders get all wound up | Jul 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Like saying that I accused of him employers of criminal activities???????? UTTER LIE. | Jul 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | And he repeats it many times | Jul 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Then the lie which he has been singing for weeks | Jul 19 19:48 |
| schestowitz | He lies about me having something to do with his employer, Fink, whatever | Jul 19 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Again, utter nonsense | Jul 19 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | wb schestowitz | Jul 19 19:49 |
| schestowitz | You should see the E-mails he sends | Jul 19 19:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, ban him, best not to give him your forum to go after you on. he will find another site to troll and threaten. He will move on | Jul 19 19:49 |
| tacone | I'm so tempted to publish this log | Jul 19 19:49 |
| schestowitz | WHy did you guys feed him anyway? | Jul 19 19:49 |
| trmanco | for fun I guess | Jul 19 19:50 |
| fewa | trmanco, not fun | Jul 19 19:50 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u should set me as an op, so that I can kick nonsense people | Jul 19 19:50 |
| tacone | I think it's my fault. I posed him a question, then the matter kept on | Jul 19 19:50 |
| fewa | stupidity | Jul 19 19:50 |
| Omar87 | It must be really really really lonely... being him. | Jul 19 19:50 |
| schestowitz | He's got this sort of megalomanical complex... maybe the type of thing Hans Reiser had. He lies about me and makes it obvious that he's jealous of things | Jul 19 19:50 |
| trmanco | he "was keeping on" before you posted a question | Jul 19 19:50 |
| splosion | I'm guilty of posting nonsense in this channel (to Lefty), Roy. I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist. You can go ahead and kick me. You'll be justified if you do. | Jul 19 19:50 |
| tacone | Omar87: refrain on personal judgements. he did that, we should held to higher stantards | Jul 19 19:50 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather we didn't curse him as that what he wants... to bully | Jul 19 19:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | He is unstable, that much is very clear. | Jul 19 19:51 |
| tacone | trmanco: before he was just talking alone | Jul 19 19:51 |
| _Hicham_ | yes very unstable, still in sid | Jul 19 19:51 |
| trmanco | it that a bad thing? | Jul 19 19:51 |
| schestowitz | ANyway, we'll need another op later. Babysitting. | Jul 19 19:51 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : me, u won't find an op like me | Jul 19 19:51 |
| trmanco | lol | Jul 19 19:52 |
| tacone | trmanco: that was to say it's probably my fault. | Jul 19 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | I will keep the channel clean | Jul 19 19:52 |
| trmanco | you don't need to be always an op, you can just jump to it when you need to | Jul 19 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | only rational discussions | Jul 19 19:52 |
| schestowitz | If I give anyone op there's problem causse the others feel left out | Jul 19 19:52 |
| schestowitz | So I hardly can | Jul 19 19:52 |
| trmanco | tacone, I didn't say that | Jul 19 19:52 |
| tacone | but I did :) | Jul 19 19:52 |
| *Chips_B_Malroy has quit ("Page closed") | Jul 19 19:53 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : there should be a circle of trust | Jul 19 19:53 |
| trmanco | :> | Jul 19 19:53 |
| _Hicham_ | people that u trust in this channel | Jul 19 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Slated used to be op here, but he's not in IRC anymore | Jul 19 19:53 |
| *Tallken has quit ("Leaving.") | Jul 19 19:53 | |
| David_Lee | At 11:29 He stated he had to leave for Jono Bacon's Community Leadership summit. He lied. | Jul 19 19:53 |
| *pk (n=pk@cpc3-broo3-0-0-cust242.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 19:53 | |
| schestowitz | David_Lee: there's the delusions of garndeur complex, but I'm not going to curse behind his back. Let's change the subject | Jul 19 19:54 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: We can make a chain of turns. (E.g.: "You're the op now, latter Hicham, later tacone..etc.") | Jul 19 19:54 |
| David_Lee | Cool, got it. | Jul 19 19:54 |
| splosion | I hate channel ops. I never know how to work them properly | Jul 19 19:54 |
| tacone | i'd love to be op, but I'm here so seldom that that wouldn't help. so please not me, at least for now. | Jul 19 19:55 |
| splosion | I can see this happening: | Jul 19 19:55 |
| splosion | == mode/#boycottnovell [+b *!* c13fc5f6@gateway/web/freenode/x-a64af41d3e2f3e3e] by splosion | Jul 19 19:55 |
| splosion | [20:07] == splosion was kicked from #boycottnovell by splosion [splosion] | Jul 19 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: good idea | Jul 19 19:55 |
| schestowitz | I learned from Groklaw about how it came under more pressure as it gre larger | Jul 19 19:56 |
| schestowitz | ALso DDOS attack, frivilous legal threats, pretexting by E-mail | Jul 19 19:56 |
| schestowitz | Even people trying to carry a messeage on 'behalf' of Groklaw | Jul 19 19:56 |
| schestowitz | And then they run to Groklaw with accusations rather than some anonymous troll | Jul 19 19:57 |
| *Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-f89aa2820a90f197) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 19:57 | |
| splosion | You've been impersonated many times, too, roy | Jul 19 19:57 |
| schestowitz | "Fink" could be an intentional plant to incite against us and cause trouble. It was some kind of bait against us | Jul 19 19:57 |
| schestowitz | splosion: that too | Jul 19 19:57 |
| schestowitz | I don't coment anymore | Jul 19 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Which is relieving actually | Jul 19 19:57 |
| schestowitz | I don't need to keep track of where I commented | Jul 19 19:57 |
| schestowitz | PJ was also impersonated. I usually report this | Jul 19 19:58 |
| schestowitz | If it doesn't lead to immediate action it builds up | Jul 19 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Based on fakes and libel | Jul 19 19:58 |
| schestowitz | The ubertroll linked to some Microsoft troll spreading libel against me | Jul 19 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Plant libel, reuse, rinse and repeat | Jul 19 19:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | get rid of eet in the comments, he is only here for the same purpose. | Jul 19 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Yeah.. | Jul 19 20:01 |
| schestowitz | But they'll nymshift and use procies | Jul 19 20:01 |
| schestowitz | proxies* | Jul 19 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They try to just police what people write or kill characters | Jul 19 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Even RMS | Jul 19 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They all hate RMS (GPL) | Jul 19 20:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, but if you ban both their ip and their email address, in time its a lot of work to get both a new email | Jul 19 20:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | slows them way down in time | Jul 19 20:02 |
| schestowitz | They'll create others | Jul 19 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Slows me down too | Jul 19 20:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Jul 19 20:02 |
| _Goblin | sorry offtopic: Anyone here have any experience of Mepis 8? What do you think....I hate to say it buts its impressive. | Jul 19 20:03 |
| splosion | There's a comedy nickname on reddit called "logicalfallacybot" or something, and sure enough, he responds to every bit of dodgy reasoning he finds with a list of all the logical fallacies employed by the OP. Perhaps that would be a good idea. It'd be telling to see so many [Ad hominem] tags all over the comments. | Jul 19 20:03 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure if all the recent trolling cost more time than the DDOS attacks combined | Jul 19 20:04 |
| schestowitz | But it's achieving the goals of slowing down | Jul 19 20:04 |
| David_Lee | Goblin: Been running it and Sidux for a while without any problems. | Jul 19 20:04 |
| schestowitz | I didn't manage to make some posts I planned to make | Jul 19 20:04 |
| splosion | Oh and my personal favourite, [Ignoratio Elenchi] | Jul 19 20:05 |
| _Goblin | David_Lee: I was messing with it for a nieghbour...Its pretty impressive and a great alternative to Ubuntu for a new user aswell (IMO) | Jul 19 20:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Sidux is a good distro | Jul 19 20:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/ax2i7 - | Jul 19 20:05 | |
| desu_ | _Goblin: "The photo you were looking for doesn't exist anymore" D: | Jul 19 20:06 |
| _Goblin | yeah, I deleted it... | Jul 19 20:07 |
| _Goblin | forgot to put a comment | Jul 19 20:07 |
| _Goblin | here it comes... | Jul 19 20:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/ax2q7 - Mephis 8 that Im setting up for a friend..very impressed so far..Compiz is in the process of being setup. | Jul 19 20:07 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I cannot comment anymore, which after this Lefty thing, maybe is a good thing. My new account logs me in automatically, but I cannot comment on the articles | Jul 19 20:08 |
| splosion | _Goblin: needs more 3d windows | Jul 19 20:08 |
| _Goblin | I'm customizing it to my neighbours wishes! | Jul 19 20:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I use Mepis 8 | Jul 19 20:08 |
| David_Lee | Goblin: Mepis8 on three different desktops, 2 netbooks and 2 standard laptops. Recognized all hardware. | Jul 19 20:08 |
| splosion | I never liked the gears thing, either. | Jul 19 20:08 |
| _Goblin | Im not sure why he wants Mepis 8 in particular | Jul 19 20:08 |
| _Goblin | Never been a KDE fan though. | Jul 19 20:08 |
| desu_ | kde > gnome :/ | Jul 19 20:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but put in WICD right away | Jul 19 20:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mepis does not have MONO either http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19851&highlight=mono | Jul 19 20:09 |
| _Goblin | and Mepis is not a distro I would try for myself normally.... | Jul 19 20:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but sadly its in the debian repos it uses | Jul 19 20:09 |
| _Goblin | You know what they say "Once you try Slack, you never go back" | Jul 19 20:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, yes there is no one distro for everyone | Jul 19 20:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I liked Slax | Jul 19 20:10 |
| David_Lee | PCLinuxOS equally as good as Mepis. | Jul 19 20:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Holy crap RT @waldyrious Carter leaves Southern Baptists citing treatment of women http://ff.im/-5qHRT | Jul 19 20:10 | |
| _Goblin | I'm currently running Wolvix 2.0.0beta2...very impressive... | Jul 19 20:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | does slackware based now have some kind of new installed similar to apt-get? | Jul 19 20:10 |
| _Goblin | Wolvix: http://www.twitpic.com/a6bhq | Jul 19 20:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | David Lee yes, PCLINUSOS is a great OS | Jul 19 20:11 |
| David_Lee | Goblin: Slap-Get | Jul 19 20:11 |
| _Goblin | It includes gslap | Jul 19 20:11 |
| _Goblin | or slap-get | Jul 19 20:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thanks | Jul 19 20:11 |
| _Goblin | People have raved about PCLOS, however it failed to boot on my AMD64 distro hopper. | Jul 19 20:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that was always my problem with slackware based, newbie unfriendly to give to others | Jul 19 20:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so slap-get may fix that | Jul 19 20:12 |
| _Goblin | Wolvix is very good.....just no pre packaged NG binaries grabber. | Jul 19 20:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] listening to With Rainy Eyes by Emancipator - http://bit.ly/1fQUB5 | Jul 19 20:13 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin: some distros may fail to boot on some hardware, i usually have several cd's for that reason of various distros in case to install for others | Jul 19 20:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, slack based is usually fast | Jul 19 20:14 |
| _Goblin | yep | Jul 19 20:14 |
| David_Lee | Had PCLOS hang in the beginning of Live CD boot, on AMD64 Phenom II, APIC=OFF worked. | Jul 19 20:14 |
| _Goblin | Wine is around 15% quicker.... | Jul 19 20:14 |
| _Goblin | UAE gets around 15-20 frames more... | Jul 19 20:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | usually most live cd boot problems are video related | Jul 19 20:16 |
| _Goblin | true.... | Jul 19 20:16 |
| _Goblin | I keep meaning to start my own distro project.... | Jul 19 20:16 |
| _Goblin | the closest I got was a heavily customized and chopped Ubuntu 8.04SE | Jul 19 20:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, the other Mepis 8 problem you may run into setting up for your friend is wireless. You have to go into the Mepis Assistant to set that up. | Jul 19 20:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | networking assistant | Jul 19 20:17 |
| _Goblin | hang fire...Ill just check.... | Jul 19 20:18 |
| David_Lee | LFS for the masocist | Jul 19 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Or learner | Jul 19 20:18 |
| mikankun | I used LFS for about 3 months | Jul 19 20:18 |
| _Hicham_ | why UbuntuSE is not renamed yet ? | Jul 19 20:18 |
| David_Lee | Best tool for learning. | Jul 19 20:18 |
| mikankun | quite when decided I wanted to update glibc | Jul 19 20:18 |
| _Hicham_ | UbuntuME was forced to rename | Jul 19 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Old news but still: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/18/2221210/A-GNULinux-Distro-Needing-Windows-To-Install | Jul 19 20:19 |
| _Hicham_ | updating glibc means updating anything | Jul 19 20:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | You can find a lot on the user forums about MONO (except UBUNTU). Mepislovers forum, you will find that users are basically set against MONO | Jul 19 20:20 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: i wondered the same | Jul 19 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Trademark issues | Jul 19 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Canonical does 'em one by one. Satanic Edition was the latest | Jul 19 20:20 |
| *Goblin_Mephis (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 20:21 | |
| Goblin_Mephis | hey it all works | Jul 19 20:21 |
| _Goblin | that was easy | Jul 19 20:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Another funky thing about the users forum for distros. Was UBUNTU at least a couple of years ago, outlawed any Microsoft bashing, as if it was just "another" distro. They tried to do that at Mepislovers too, but people spoke out about that | Jul 19 20:21 |
| *Goblin_Mephis is now known as Goblin_Mepis | Jul 19 20:21 | |
| Goblin_Mepis | doh | Jul 19 20:21 |
| *Goblin_Mepis (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has left #boycottnovell | Jul 19 20:21 | |
| _Goblin | Currently seeding #!CBL9.0.4.1 on Linuxtracker..... | Jul 19 20:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Warren actually tried to make the wireless too easy, and now new users cannot figure out how to make it work | Jul 19 20:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mepis that is | Jul 19 20:23 |
| *tacone1 (n=Adium@151.81.32.140) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 20:23 | |
| _Hicham_ | wireless in damn easy now | Jul 19 20:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Turns out there is a "Linux Cafe" http://ping.fm/GeSxa | Jul 19 20:23 | |
| schestowitz | Unless you use VIsta | Jul 19 20:23 |
| tacone1 | _Hicham_: thx for you comment | Jul 19 20:23 |
| schestowitz | I hear the driver issues are broad | Jul 19 20:23 |
| _Hicham_ | tacone1 : u r welcome | Jul 19 20:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, Ubuntu, Mint, they all good, better than Windose. But I was wrong to like to them on MS Watch, as they come with MONO | Jul 19 20:24 |
| David_Lee | Mepis took 11 min. to install with default settings. Desktop ready. How long for any win install? | Jul 19 20:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | *link | Jul 19 20:24 |
| splosion | over the next few weeks, I want to write up a srs article about Ed Curry and the whole NSA security stuff with windows, and the after-effects. It displeases me that the whole thing has been forgotten about. anyone want to help? | Jul 19 20:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | David Lee, we think alike on the Distos | Jul 19 20:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] So before #!CBL9.04.01 there will be coverage of my experience with Mepis 8.....frighteningly easy to install..... #linux #mepis | Jul 19 20:25 | |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 19 20:26 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Warren has made many gui types ways for beginners in the Mepis assistant | Jul 19 20:26 |
| David_Lee | Chips: Currently running Sidux 2009-2, really outstanding even with KDE 4.2 | Jul 19 20:26 |
| schestowitz | The ubertroll is now trolling in site comments | Jul 19 20:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | most are easy to do, but for beginngers it nice to be able to do a chkdsk of the hard drive from the live cd, or restore the xorg.conf from the Mepis assistants | Jul 19 20:27 |
| desu_ | _Goblin: phear mah kde 4.3 http://i29.tinypic.com/qo99h3.jpg | Jul 19 20:28 |
| splosion | schestowitz: where? | Jul 19 20:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, can u ban his ip and email address? | Jul 19 20:28 |
| David_Lee | Roy: I think they want to take up your time to keep you from your normal posting schedule. Oct is Vista7 RTM | Jul 19 20:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he will have more than one email address, so you will have to ban him more than once | Jul 19 20:29 |
| *Balrog__ (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-72-91.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 20:30 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | having the email address and the ip is more legal proof for you | Jul 19 20:30 |
| schestowitz | We still have that Microsoft TE commenting a lot without disclosure | Jul 19 20:33 |
| schestowitz | What the heck is this? | Jul 19 20:33 |
| schestowitz | We don't have a commenting policy yet | Jul 19 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Something about disclosures, against libeling, etc. | Jul 19 20:34 |
| tacone1 | http://linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/102 | Jul 19 20:34 |
| tacone1 | talking with a sflc about mono | Jul 19 20:34 |
| _Goblin | desu_ sorry, I was afk...Nice skydome and desktop! I was debating to add the water effects (although my friend said he didnt want anything other than "the cube"... | Jul 19 20:36 |
| desu_ | i would've put my snow effect, too... | Jul 19 20:36 |
| desu_ | :P | Jul 19 20:36 |
| desu_ | btw, all that without any extra setup... | Jul 19 20:36 |
| desu_ | default install of kde... kwin | Jul 19 20:36 |
| _Goblin | not really a COMPIZ fan.....wobbly windows is about my limit... | Jul 19 20:36 |
| desu_ | oooo i has wobbly windows too :P | Jul 19 20:37 |
| _Hicham_ | I am submitting an op request to schestowitz | Jul 19 20:37 |
| *desu_ doesn't use compiz either | Jul 19 20:37 | |
| desu_ | it's just plain old kwin | Jul 19 20:37 |
| _Hicham_ | is plasma better than compiz ? | Jul 19 20:37 |
| desu_ | o.o? | Jul 19 20:38 |
| desu_ | kwin+plasma > anything gnome+compiz can offer :P | Jul 19 20:38 |
| desu_ | if you leave the plugins that already exist for compiz aside, that is... | Jul 19 20:38 |
| David_Lee | bbl, on-call phone. | Jul 19 20:38 |
| desu_ | they can prolly be ported to kwin, i think | Jul 19 20:38 |
| tacone1 | +1 for _Hicham_ op | Jul 19 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks tacone1 | Jul 19 20:39 |
| _Goblin | +1 for _Hicham_ op | Jul 19 20:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, on your commenting policy, if I could make a suggustion | Jul 19 20:40 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks _Goblin | Jul 19 20:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | use something similar to those on the distro's users forums | Jul 19 20:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | namecalling, anyone, even yourself, bad language, links to porn, advertising etc gets you banned | Jul 19 20:41 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Hicham_ | Jul 19 20:41 | |
| schestowitz | We'll take turns, I guess | Jul 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz | But be reasonable, don't misuse op | Jul 19 20:41 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks schestowitz | Jul 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz | np | Jul 19 20:41 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: draft here http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Commenting_Policy | Jul 19 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Correct as you see fiy | Jul 19 20:42 |
| schestowitz | *fit | Jul 19 20:42 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I think that we must put some pressure on upstream GNOME | Jul 19 20:43 |
| _Hicham_ | because tomboy and f-spot have been adopted as gnome projects | Jul 19 20:43 |
| _Hicham_ | this is really getting serious | Jul 19 20:43 |
| _Hicham_ | this crazy mexican is gonna ruin everything | Jul 19 20:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mepislovers, as an example does not even allow distro bashing (MS is not a distro!) but you can say distro X does not have or does have MONO or something to the effect, if you state a fact. | Jul 19 20:44 |
| _Hicham_ | I think that MS promised him to take him as an employee if he destroys GNOME | Jul 19 20:45 |
| *Balrog_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 19 20:45 | |
| _Hicham_ | what I don't understand is why a lot of devs are interested in Mono ? | Jul 19 20:45 |
| _Hicham_ | even if there is good alternatives ? | Jul 19 20:45 |
| _Hicham_ | are those devs real Linux devs ? | Jul 19 20:45 |
| _Hicham_ | or Microsoft devs employed to fill Linux with crap ? | Jul 19 20:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy I like your commenting policy | Jul 19 20:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you don't litely ban people or kick them, but that gives you enough ammo to get rid of the bad ones | Jul 19 20:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin: remember the shillbombers at MS Watch in the comments. When they had nothing left, they used filth in the comments | Jul 19 20:47 |
| splosion | Damn, man | Jul 19 20:48 |
| splosion | The comment policy and the registering and stuff is going to make my fallacy_bot mostly redundant, now. Still, I'll be pointing out dodgy reasoning even from sympathetic commentators, if I see any | Jul 19 20:50 |
| _Goblin | chips: sorry afk there...yes I do...I also remember the glee Andre Da Costa seemed to take in Joe's leaving.... | Jul 19 20:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I must be already banned in the comments as I was logged in, and when I go to post it says I must log in, and then it fails to log in | Jul 19 20:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Andre must have 50K comments online, he is like Lefty | Jul 19 20:52 |
| schestowitz | No pressure , _Hicham_ | Jul 19 20:55 |
| schestowitz | We can write our minds on technical terms | Jul 19 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Pressure is a strong word | Jul 19 20:55 |
| schestowitz | And it's Free software. We can make essays that will hopefully be convincing and enlighten | Jul 19 20:55 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : this is getting serious | Jul 19 20:55 |
| tacone1 | which kind of pressure do you have in mind ? | Jul 19 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: in BN?? | Jul 19 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Please stop feedine the trolls though | Jul 19 20:57 |
| schestowitz | It's what they want | Jul 19 20:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, I cannot post, unless maybe I try to reg again as someone else | Jul 19 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: try password recovert thing | Jul 19 20:57 |
| schestowitz | *recover | Jul 19 20:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, Roy, I will stop feeding the trolls | Jul 19 20:57 |
| schestowitz | tacone1: I worry that some people who read BN take it too far | Jul 19 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Like that zealot "Fink" | Jul 19 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Nothing to do with me, but they take it rudely on mailing lists | Jul 19 20:58 |
| schestowitz | And they make it seem like it's from BN, which it's not | Jul 19 20:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | It could be the username as I put a couple of _ into it | Jul 19 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: ah, OK | Jul 19 20:59 |
| schestowitz | It's WordPress internals, not much I can do | Jul 19 20:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, maybe I need to try again and reg another | Jul 19 20:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Dead and Buried pics from last night: http://bit.ly/kZIhO | Jul 19 21:01 | |
| schestowitz | Please, people, don't feed trolls. You are getting *me* in trouble for doing this | Jul 19 21:04 |
| schestowitz | PC maker Everex closes shop in North America < http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/07/15/everex.shuts.us.operations/ > | Jul 19 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Wow. Major lies from global globe: http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2009/07/16/latest_netbook_incarnations_are_an_improvement/ | Jul 19 21:15 |
| schestowitz | They call Linux "nonstandard" LOL | Jul 19 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Linux adheres to standard | Jul 19 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Even standards | Jul 19 21:15 |
| mikankun | I had high hopes for the netbook market but once it became infected it just went downhill | Jul 19 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | MicrosoftNBC brings Linux FUD: Experts question security of Google OS < http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31945916/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/> | Jul 19 21:28 |
| schestowitz | How come they don't cover many pro-Linux articles? I never see any. | Jul 19 21:28 |
| *StillMe (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-06779b65db0e2c85) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:33 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS-Yahoo search deal nears, so Ballmer contines to use pressure and insiders to get Yahoo, and to try to kill Google | Jul 19 21:33 |
| StillMe | Hey, did you guys know that under UK libel laws, the burden of proof is 100% on the defendant? | Jul 19 21:33 |
| StillMe | It's true. | Jul 19 21:33 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-06779b65db0e2c85 | Jul 19 21:34 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked StillMe from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:34 | |
| schestowitz | So he has the budren of proof as the one who libeled me int he first place | Jul 19 21:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mutex again? | Jul 19 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: no, Lefty | Jul 19 21:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | haha | Jul 19 21:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | nice boot | Jul 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | He also libeled me earlier in IRC | Jul 19 21:35 |
| *jose (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-4ddbdc0674b44bf3) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:35 | |
| schestowitz | He just wants to intimidate to silence. | Jul 19 21:35 |
| jose | get my mail, Roy? | Jul 19 21:35 |
| schestowitz | You mailed? | Jul 19 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Let me check | Jul 19 21:36 |
| jose | Maybe you want to send my your phone number. | Jul 19 21:36 |
| jose | You really need to talk with me. | Jul 19 21:36 |
| jose | =D | Jul 19 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Sure | Jul 19 21:36 |
| jose | mm-kay. | Jul 19 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Let me just finish an RSS feed... | Jul 19 21:37 |
| jose | take your time, it's your ass in the sling. | Jul 19 21:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Jose-X | Jul 19 21:37 |
| jose | Hi, Chump! | Jul 19 21:37 |
| jose | =D | Jul 19 21:37 |
| amarsh04 | hi jose, just read through your talkbacks on linuxtoday.com about mono | Jul 19 21:37 |
| jose | lol | Jul 19 21:38 |
| schestowitz | jose: my mail server it temporarily down I've just realised | Jul 19 21:38 |
| schestowitz | THe mail will arrive later | Jul 19 21:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so, that was you as a sym | Jul 19 21:38 |
| jose | Well, this is Lefty, you'd better get it up and read your email. | Jul 19 21:38 |
| jose | As I said, you need to have a chat with me. | Jul 19 21:38 |
| jose | Or just send my your phone number and I'll call you. | Jul 19 21:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I emailed this one, as I thought was ok | Jul 19 21:38 |
| jose | I won't share it or misuse it. I want to lay out some facts for you to consider. | Jul 19 21:39 |
| jose | Stuff you need to know. | Jul 19 21:39 |
| jose | =D | Jul 19 21:39 |
| jose | you've got my email address already, I believe. | Jul 19 21:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but nothing I said was wrong, only that I should not have posted the numbers | Jul 19 21:39 |
| jose | shut up, Chump. the adults are talking. | Jul 19 21:39 |
| schestowitz | Wait... | Jul 19 21:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have nothing to do with this site. And lefty, you are about as low as they get | Jul 19 21:40 |
| jose | I told you to button yer lip, Chimp. | Jul 19 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Pretexting is against the law | Jul 19 21:41 |
| jose | lefty@shugendo.org, Roy. | Jul 19 21:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you will not get any help from me Lefty in your battle | Jul 19 21:41 |
| jose | I'm not preteting. | Jul 19 21:41 |
| jose | Jose's my middle name. | Jul 19 21:41 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-4ddbdc0674b44bf3 | Jul 19 21:41 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked jose from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:41 | |
| schestowitz | It's Lefty pretending to be someone elese | Jul 19 21:41 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.82.11.215) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:41 | |
| *Willy_ (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-ac00c27e415c12ed) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:41 | |
| Willy_ | lefty@shugendo.org, Roy. | Jul 19 21:41 |
| Willy_ | a phone number where you can be reached now. | Jul 19 21:42 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-ac00c27e415c12ed | Jul 19 21:42 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Willy_ from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:42 | |
| *Lefty (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-cbb95fecf1dddd3f) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:42 | |
| Lefty | Well, ya really oughta read that email, pal. | Jul 19 21:42 |
| Lefty | your call. | Jul 19 21:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Sorry, folks, I had seen a JoseX in this site before, and thought she was the same, a sane person. So that was why I emailed her. But there is notihing there that will hurt anyone here | Jul 19 21:42 |
| Lefty | that's your story, Chump. | Jul 19 21:42 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-cbb95fecf1dddd3f | Jul 19 21:43 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Lefty from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:43 | |
| schestowitz | My mail is down today | Jul 19 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Since early in the day. I'll contact the host | Jul 19 21:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | He is just tying to be an irritant | Jul 19 21:43 |
| *Erik____ (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-8a511746834cb1fd) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:44 | |
| *Erik____ has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 19 21:44 | |
| *BunsenHoneydew (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-7f900b5c02a2a1f7) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:44 | |
| BunsenHoneydew | In the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it! | Jul 19 21:44 |
| BunsenHoneydew | =D | Jul 19 21:44 |
| BunsenHoneydew | Got that, Roy? | Jul 19 21:44 |
| BunsenHoneydew | "Entirely on you". | Jul 19 21:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it was a yahoo mailing address | Jul 19 21:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the joseX one | Jul 19 21:45 |
| BunsenHoneydew | Send me the phone number, dude. I've got a proposal. We'll talk like big people, hm? | Jul 19 21:45 |
| BunsenHoneydew | Well, _I_ will. | Jul 19 21:45 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-7f900b5c02a2a1f7 | Jul 19 21:46 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked BunsenHoneydew from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:46 | |
| tacone | i guess i just lost something interesting | Jul 19 21:46 |
| tessier | http://www.idreamoflinux.com/2009/07/linux-sucks.html | Jul 19 21:46 |
| schestowitz | YEah, seen that | Jul 19 21:47 |
| tessier | Clever. No trolls in the comments. Heh. | Jul 19 21:47 |
| *HunsenBoneydew (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-d5dea21213ba1221) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:47 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-d5dea21213ba1221 | Jul 19 21:47 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked HunsenBoneydew from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:47 | |
| schestowitz | We're now getting heckled in BN by live.com addresses | Jul 19 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Seems like a coordinated gagging effort to me, or maybe cooinidental | Jul 19 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Just funny to see how Microsoft TE play along in this... | Jul 19 21:48 |
| On Sunday too. | Jul 19 21:48 | |
| I hope they are getting paid overtime. | Jul 19 21:48 | |
| schestowitz | To them, I suppose it's war | Jul 19 21:48 |
| *tacone is paying his hosting on the very last day | Jul 19 21:49 | |
| Shame M$ can't just hire coders and fix their shit instead. | Jul 19 21:49 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's results next week are abysmal | Jul 19 21:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | seen them do a lot of bad stuff, but maybe this is the worst | Jul 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft TEs resort to doing anything to save their jobs | Jul 19 21:49 |
| Maybe they will fire all these TE asses. | Jul 19 21:49 | |
| schestowitz | I reckon Microsoft profits might fall 30-40% this qtr | Jul 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz | They feel about 30% last qtr | Jul 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz | It's like with SCO... | Jul 19 21:49 |
| schestowitz | PJ receiving death threatd | Jul 19 21:50 |
| *linxer (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-391d7300508619ec) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:50 | |
| The YesMen had some funny things to say about PR people in their fake NYT print. | Jul 19 21:50 | |
| pictures of empty offices | Jul 19 21:50 | |
| trmanco | o geeze | Jul 19 21:51 |
| schestowitz | twitter: yeah | Jul 19 21:51 |
| schestowitz | RMS writes about yemen sometimes | Jul 19 21:51 |
| schestowitz | *yesman | Jul 19 21:52 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* weird typo there. | Jul 19 21:52 |
| schestowitz | *yesmen | Jul 19 21:52 |
| schestowitz | They looked for help to carry on their activism | Jul 19 21:52 |
| schestowitz | I can see your IP, David | Jul 19 21:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Is there no decent shred of honestly with these people? Hoping to live long enough to see M$ go under. | Jul 19 21:53 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-391d7300508619ec | Jul 19 21:53 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked linxer from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Jul 19 21:53 | |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: greed over ethics | Jul 19 21:53 |
| schestowitz | CIT talks to top banks; bankruptcy still feared < http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1735336320090717?rpc=44 > | Jul 19 21:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | attention deficiency disorder=Lefty | Jul 19 21:56 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip68-230-37-218.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 21:56 | |
| tessier | schestowitz: How much will MS lose next week? | Jul 19 21:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he loves no one, so hate is all he has, so he talks to those he hates | Jul 19 21:57 |
| schestowitz | If consistent wrt last quarter, 30% | Jul 19 21:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its going be bad for the 23rd is my guess | Jul 19 21:57 |
| _Goblin | I reckon 36.3% | Jul 19 21:58 |
| schestowitz | That's what they report anyway. Reality maybe worse | Jul 19 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft took debt | Jul 19 21:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | consider the Seven vaporware is hurting MS | Jul 19 21:58 |
| I saw this kind of thing too at local computer clubs. Like all things M$, it was coordinated. -> (12:40:59 PM) Chips_B_Malroy: Another funky thing about the users forum for distros. Was UBUNTU at least a couple of years ago, outlawed any Microsoft bashing, as if it was just "another" distro. They tried to do that at Mepislovers too, but people spoke out about that | Jul 19 21:58 | |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: while you were away I got back from the gym to find the place filled with libel against me | Jul 19 21:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Windows users will hold off a few months before buying in order to get the latest, which some will think is no Vista | Jul 19 21:58 |
| schestowitz | You also missed the troll nymshifting like half a dozen times, pretending to be other people who participate in the site | Jul 19 21:59 |
| wallclimber | yes, it was getting pretty awful by the time i left | Jul 19 21:59 |
| the last two hours do look nasty. | Jul 19 21:59 | |
| schestowitz | Next MSFT fianncial report overlaps V7 and Ubuntu 9.10 | Jul 19 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Just days apart | Jul 19 21:59 |
| schestowitz | I am perhaps going to post a commenting policy | Jul 19 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Intimidation is not acceptable | Jul 19 21:59 |
| Don't bother Roy. Just run the place as you see fit. | Jul 19 22:00 | |
| We can all see what's going on. | Jul 19 22:00 | |
| *magentar_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 19 22:00 | |
| schestowitz | I will not have nymshifting libeling lunatics (remember it all started with his libeling me) posting threats in my site | Jul 19 22:00 |
| schestowitz | Time drainage | Jul 19 22:00 |
| schestowitz | Been effective | Jul 19 22:01 |
| You don't owe Lefty or any of those other asses anything and they are not about to read your policy. Just boot them the way PJ does. | Jul 19 22:01 | |
| wallclimber | i think they get worse because they are frustrated when they can't get you to respond | Jul 19 22:01 |
| *ydkj has quit ("Page closed") | Jul 19 22:01 | |
| They are frustrated by their inability to shut this place up. | Jul 19 22:02 | |
| *pk has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jul 19 22:02 | |
| They could not even drive me off Slashdot and the place still picks up my submissions. Total fail on their part. | Jul 19 22:02 | |
| wallclimber | that's true, twitter, but also their kind of nonsense requires attention to work well, they hate it when they can't stir things up | Jul 19 22:02 |
| They want BN shut up because they can't control it. | Jul 19 22:02 | |
| When Roy does just a little bit of thinking and records keeping, it blows up billions of dollars worth of lies. | Jul 19 22:03 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Wallclimber, he has over 300 posts to repond | Jul 19 22:03 |
| schestowitz | It seems like imy mail server has been down since the afternoon...? | Jul 19 22:03 |
| hmmm | Jul 19 22:03 | |
| trmanco | uh' | Jul 19 22:03 |
| I wonder if they mail bombed you. | Jul 19 22:04 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | is Lefty attacking this site? | Jul 19 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Heh. NO. | Jul 19 22:04 |
| I was unaware that Lefty had stopped attacking BN. | Jul 19 22:04 | |
| wallclimber | was the Lefty that was here a while ago the "real" Lefty? | Jul 19 22:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | was talking about the mail | Jul 19 22:05 |
| I'm not sure Lefty was ever who he claimed he was. | Jul 19 22:05 | |
| tacone | wallclimber: difficult to say. my guess is that he is. but we can't be sure. | Jul 19 22:05 |
| It could have been ID theft all along. | Jul 19 22:05 | |
| wallclimber | that one was a little creepy | Jul 19 22:05 |
| wallclimber | i'm assuming this will all continue to get worse before it gets better... | Jul 19 22:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | twitter, only way to find out is to call, and that would not be nice. so I don't | Jul 19 22:07 |
| tacone | another way is to publish the log and ask it publicly :P | Jul 19 22:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | even a website can be a fake. | Jul 19 22:08 |
| Call who? | Jul 19 22:08 | |
| Right. Websites are easy enough to make. | Jul 19 22:08 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and I for one would not post on his site, if he is the real thing | Jul 19 22:08 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.3.160.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 22:09 | |
| I don't have anything to say to the troll and don't know the real person. | Jul 19 22:09 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Twitter says call who, ACCESS. But its catch 22 you are a bad guy if you do, and if not how can you be sure thats him | Jul 19 22:09 |
| There's nothing wrong with calling someone. | Jul 19 22:09 | |
| I recommended to Roy that he call before and it seems he has. | Jul 19 22:10 | |
| The question is if he called the right number or just got dragged around by some dick. | Jul 19 22:10 | |
| tacone | "hey, are you the same lefty that came on BN irc and claimed people there to be thick ? " | Jul 19 22:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | twitter, thats what I think too, he went way too far, and should anwser for his actions. But neither do I want to do anything to hurt this site. BN and PJ are about the only two that look out for us GNU/Linux users, they fight for freedom | Jul 19 22:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | careful what you say about calling here | Jul 19 22:12 |
| wallclimber | you were talking about Microsoft losses this last year, can't they just blame the economy and ask for some Fed money because they are "too important to the economy" to fail? | Jul 19 22:12 |
| Well, there's also FSF, EFF, ACLU and so on and so forth. | Jul 19 22:12 | |
| All of whom will happily agree that I'm free to express my opinion that the Lefty troll is an ass. | Jul 19 22:13 | |
| ThistleWeb | wallclimber: they will no doubt try, it's not as if they are practised at pulling govt strings | Jul 19 22:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe ACCESS doesn't care what Lefty says here about BN. But would they care about how he has run down RMS and GNU software? | Jul 19 22:13 |
| I don't care what ACCESS thinks. | Jul 19 22:14 | |
| ThistleWeb | as well as controlling mainstream media stories to add pressure in getting the result they want | Jul 19 22:14 |
| Steve Ballmer has already asked for bailouts. | Jul 19 22:14 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | twitter, he is not an ass, maybe an a$$ | Jul 19 22:14 |
| I've expressed myself about Lefty in the comments and don't have much else to add. | Jul 19 22:15 | |
| Other than his behavior here in IRC is in line with previous abuse and he should be banned. | Jul 19 22:15 | |
| schestowitz | Interim Commenting Policy < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/19/interim-commenting-policy/ > | Jul 19 22:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I guess that policy could be someone using the comments to attack people like RMS? If so that would be good. another troll tactic | Jul 19 22:17 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, Microsoft will want stimulus or something | Jul 19 22:18 |
| ThistleWeb | wouldn't it be funny if there was an IRC bot that did the equivalent of a user agent string on each new nick entering and posted that along with the usual IP, nick etc | Jul 19 22:18 |
| schestowitz | They try to make depatments reliant on their products on servies | Jul 19 22:18 |
| schestowitz | I am most fearful about Health'Vault' | Jul 19 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Healthclockin | Jul 19 22:18 |
| schestowitz | "Save Microsoft from bankruptcy or patients will die.." | Jul 19 22:19 |
| wallclimber | well, i know that every time billg goes to washington they fall all over themselves to make him welcome | Jul 19 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Stop mentioning people's employers | Jul 19 22:19 |
| schestowitz | You are fueling them | Jul 19 22:19 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, they like to be around money | Jul 19 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Later when they finish their terms they can be repayed somehow, sometimes | Jul 19 22:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you know when they annouce the quarter details after the stock market closes, its probably bad news. and if its on Friday its worse. I think this being on a monday, its should be good for them. Maybe they fridged the books again | Jul 19 22:20 |
| It is bad enough that Windows is used as a terminal in Hospitals. They need to be kept out of the server room. | Jul 19 22:20 | |
| ThistleWeb | politicians dont earn their rewards in office, there's often too much scrutiny that would force them to resign in disgrace over something, they earn it AFTER they leave office with a number of well paid directorships and their contacts books | Jul 19 22:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Or speeches that are paid for, the standard practice of both former prez here on both parties in USA | Jul 19 22:22 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, speaking tours | Jul 19 22:22 |
| ThistleWeb | "how to hoodwink the UN and get the decision you want, even when they know they are being hoodwinked" by T Blair & G W Bush | Jul 19 22:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they all do it here, Clinton, W etc | Jul 19 22:24 |
| ThistleWeb | they do, it's a long standing tradition of former leaders | Jul 19 22:24 |
| ThistleWeb | some are more interesting than others | Jul 19 22:24 |
| ThistleWeb | apparently Churchill was VERY popular and prolific after WWII in the US | Jul 19 22:24 |
| wallclimber | i've often wondered why, with all the layoffs at MS, more ex employees don't speak out about things | Jul 19 22:25 |
| ThistleWeb | he toured like a rock star | Jul 19 22:25 |
| ThistleWeb | well, without the sex, drugs and rock & roll | Jul 19 22:25 |
| How do you know more employees are not speaking out? | Jul 19 22:25 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Churchill is still very popular here | Jul 19 22:25 |
| wallclimber | Churchill was witty and had personality | Jul 19 22:25 |
| ThistleWeb | he will always be a hero in the UK for his role in WWII | Jul 19 22:26 |
| wallclimber | GWB has the personality of a box of rocks | Jul 19 22:26 |
| It is hard for them though. M$ employees are like most corporate drones, I'd think. Kept desperately busy so they can't learn things for themselves. | Jul 19 22:26 | |
| Helpless and divided. | Jul 19 22:26 | |
| But there's another barrier. M$ is a powerful company and can make sure their critics never work in the field again. | Jul 19 22:27 | |
| wallclimber | twitter: but wouldn't some of them be disgruntled after losing their job (or very relieved?) | Jul 19 22:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A Pictorial Guide to Computer Hardware: http://digg.com/d1xIdI?t | Jul 19 22:27 | |
| They want to work somewhere. | Jul 19 22:27 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Tony Blair is quite popular here (USA)as well, far more so than in his country | Jul 19 22:27 |
| ThistleWeb | wallclimber: I used to think that until I saw a documentary about Dubya on the campaign trail to be leader of the Republicans. TV crews followed his campaign (as they did with the others) and for a while you could see why people warmed to him. Take the politics out and he's a warm, charming guy......that's AFTER knowing what his first term in office would bring | Jul 19 22:28 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 19 22:29 | |
| A man can smile and smile and still be a villain | Jul 19 22:29 | |
| ThistleWeb | only near the end of the campaign when it became apparent he was one of the favorites, did his team clamp down and make sure it was all on message etc | Jul 19 22:29 |
| wallclimber | Thistleweb: i heard that madoff was a charming guy too... | Jul 19 22:29 |
| *sebsebseb () has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 22:30 | |
| ThistleWeb | no doubt he was, you need to convince peeps to go along with your agenda | Jul 19 22:30 |
| Then you read the emails from the most charming people at M$ and see how vile they really are. | Jul 19 22:30 | |
| wallclimber | twitter: i've heard that steveb can be very charming too | Jul 19 22:30 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm saying I can understand why they are popular as speakers | Jul 19 22:31 |
| good target for rotten eggs | Jul 19 22:31 | |
| wallclimber | Thistleweb: I understand. | Jul 19 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jul 19 22:32 |
| ThistleWeb | of course the real reason the controversial ones command high fees, is that the peeps booking them hope to gain a little new insight into something that's been carefully stage managed while in office | Jul 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz | SteveB was charming with Neelie | Jul 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz | He "schmoozed" here as they say in Microsoft | Jul 19 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Better than his meeting with Lucowski (spelling?) | Jul 19 22:32 |
| ThistleWeb | Blair is a lawyer, he didn't slip in office where he could be kicked out, so he won't slip under a relaxed Q&A | Jul 19 22:33 |
| wallclimber | i have company coming for dinner... | Jul 19 22:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I read somewhere that 92% of all polications in Federal Gov USA started as lawyers, the other 7% doctors, and 1% as business owners | Jul 19 22:34 |
| ThistleWeb | Blair also still has political ambitions as Pres of the EU | Jul 19 22:34 |
| wallclimber | must get things ready...you all take care :) | Jul 19 22:35 |
| ThistleWeb | have fun wallclimber | Jul 19 22:35 |
| ThistleWeb | Chips_B_Malroy: that would not surprise me at all | Jul 19 22:35 |
| wallclimber | bye for now | Jul 19 22:35 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 19 22:35 | |
| ThistleWeb | actually, I'd expect more religious types | Jul 19 22:35 |
| ThistleWeb | specially in the Republican ranks | Jul 19 22:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | which helps to explain why my country is going the way it is | Jul 19 22:36 |
| ThistleWeb | although manipulating the sheep is much easier if you're not one of them | Jul 19 22:36 |
| ThistleWeb | the UK is much the same on the lawyer / politician front | Jul 19 22:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ThistleWeb, believe it or not, the Democrats have more millionaires in their ranks | Jul 19 22:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | both parties here have long ago lost site of the middle classes | Jul 19 22:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its why they love money, M$ and do not fight for FOSS | Jul 19 22:38 |
| ThistleWeb | the Democrats have long been the party of the entertainment industry, so that dont really surprise me much | Jul 19 22:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and they love BillG | Jul 19 22:38 |
| schestowitz | They think he's a "maverick" | Jul 19 22:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Both Parties here are the party of the entertainment industry. But Dems slightly more | Jul 19 22:39 |
| schestowitz | j/k (Palin reference) | Jul 19 22:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they both love the RIAA | Jul 19 22:39 |
| ThistleWeb | it's not so much the fact that most politicians are lawyers, it's that they're a who's who of the rich families, coming from the most elite schools | Jul 19 22:39 |
| ThistleWeb | I think in general the Democrats are better for the US, but not for anyone fighting the entertainment industry on common sense | Jul 19 22:40 |
| ThistleWeb | there's always areas of concern | Jul 19 22:40 |
| sebsebseb | hi I am new here, and found out about the channel a little while ago | Jul 19 22:41 |
| ThistleWeb | a lot of the elite are indoctrinated that it's their birth right and they are "born to rule" | Jul 19 22:41 |
| ThistleWeb | welcome sebsebseb | Jul 19 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Welcome | Jul 19 22:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lately yes, the Republicans went over the edge and completely lost track of what they were supposed to be | Jul 19 22:41 |
| sebsebseb | I thought it would be a Mono hate channel or something :D ,but dosn't seem like it | Jul 19 22:41 |
| ThistleWeb | here the Labour Party are the party of the working classes.....if you can believe that | Jul 19 22:42 |
| ThistleWeb | or they were before the Blair revolution turned them into Torries with red ties | Jul 19 22:42 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: the topics here are all over the place, mono will come back up at some point | Jul 19 22:43 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no, mono is one among many subjects int he world | Jul 19 22:43 |
| sebsebseb | does the guy that runs the boycottnovell site come to this channel? | Jul 19 22:43 |
| ThistleWeb | that's schestowitz | Jul 19 22:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | If MS buys yahoo, or part of it, I going get rid of my yahoo account, I hardly every use it anymore anyway | Jul 19 22:44 |
| sebsebseb | I used to be loyal to Yahoo untill | Jul 19 22:44 |
| sebsebseb | I locked myself out of my own account, when doing a password change, this is a few years ago | Jul 19 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Wow, I just realised Zimbra vabnished | Jul 19 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Nothing at all about it in the news | Jul 19 22:45 |
| sebsebseb | and I try to contact them about that, and get loads of automatic emails :( and then the only time I get one from a real person is to complain that I hadn't done my DOB exactly as my profile, so I email back how they wanted it, but only to get more automatic email :( | Jul 19 22:45 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.82.51) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 22:45 | |
| trmanco | Zimbra? | Jul 19 22:46 |
| trmanco | it's site is online | Jul 19 22:46 |
| tacone | hello again | Jul 19 22:46 |
| ThistleWeb | hey tacone | Jul 19 22:46 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: well they got bing now, and luckily the Yahoo CEO at the time, said no to them | Jul 19 22:46 |
| sebsebseb | !logs | Jul 19 22:47 |
| ThistleWeb | bing is a failure | Jul 19 22:47 |
| sebsebseb | so where are the logs located? | Jul 19 22:47 |
| tacone | ms has big influence on local newspaper | Jul 19 22:47 |
| tacone | all italian newspapers reclamize ms | Jul 19 22:47 |
| ThistleWeb | mostly everything MS touches to compete in an existing market fails, leaving them no choice but to buy an existing rival | Jul 19 22:47 |
| tacone | *publicize | Jul 19 22:47 |
| tacone | not IT newspapers. generic ones | Jul 19 22:47 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: well they can't just buy Google Docs I think, hence Office 2010 online | Jul 19 22:48 |
| ThistleWeb | if Yahoo sell parts of itself to MS, which is the most likely scenario, the Zimbra will be one of their main targets, to close down a rival to Exchange | Jul 19 22:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | there is supposed to be a deal in the works for a search part of yahoo/ms next week | Jul 19 22:49 |
| tacone | office online was advertised by italian newspapers | Jul 19 22:49 |
| ThistleWeb | if I were Yahoo, I'd hold out a REAL high price for stuff I know MS want to buy, to close down | Jul 19 22:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | another ms project axed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/17/AR2009071700741.html | Jul 19 22:50 |
| schestowitz | This month’s talk will be given by the prolific podcaster and musician, Dan Lynch. Dan will be giving a talk entitled “Professional Audio Production With Free Software”."" http://manchester.fsuk.org/blog/2009/07/12/manchester-free-software-talk-dan-lynch-audio-production-with-free-software-21st-july/ | Jul 19 22:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Microsoft Goons Break Up SQL Server Meeting http://www.pcworld.com/article/168645/microsoft_goons_break_up_sql_server_meeting.html | Jul 19 22:51 |
| sebsebseb | tacone: and the BBC has an article about it http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8148969.stm it also mentions how much money Microsoft may not get as a profit, by doing it | Jul 19 22:52 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: did you read that office 2010 wont be as free as first seemed? Corporate users need a licence per user, and (I think) a Sharepoint licence to use online office 2010 | Jul 19 22:52 |
| tacone | italian newspapers say it will make money online to recover the losses and that will inaugurate the big fight to google | Jul 19 22:53 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: nope, but that's far enough really, companies are the ones that tend to have loads of money to waste on Microsoft stuff anyway | Jul 19 22:53 |
| tacone | ms is the hero fighting google | Jul 19 22:53 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: fair enougn not far enough above | Jul 19 22:53 |
| tacone | not that google is that evil thing. they don't bother users to get a genuine google copy | Jul 19 22:53 |
| sebsebseb | as long as Office 2010 works on non Microsoft OS's as well, Linux distros, Mac, etc, well it's not that bad I guess | Jul 19 22:54 |
| sebsebseb | I meant the web based one | Jul 19 22:54 |
| sebsebseb | obviously Microsoft won't port the proper product to Desktop Linux, maybe make a version for Mac | Jul 19 22:54 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, lets see.....a free online office suite by a popular web company who know what they're doing on the web and have built their reputation on good products......or paying a fee to use a web version fron a company who habitually gets it wrong | Jul 19 22:54 |
| ThistleWeb | actually, to be fair Google do offer corporate deals | Jul 19 22:55 |
| ThistleWeb | with more guarantees of uptime etc | Jul 19 22:55 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: well the web based one is meant to be for anyone with a Windows Live account, as in the homeusers/consumers | Jul 19 22:55 |
| ThistleWeb | at a price | Jul 19 22:55 |
| trmanco | http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2009/07/19/milw0rm-9158-stack-overflow-crash-not-exploitable-cve-2009-2479/ | Jul 19 22:55 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, the same live accounts that non-Windows peeps can't log into | Jul 19 22:55 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: hotmail can be used on Linux | Jul 19 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | at least they're not forcing IE | Jul 19 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | which makes a change | Jul 19 22:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] milw0rm 9158 stack overflow crash not exploitable (CVE-2009-2479): http://is.gd/1ExM1 | Jul 19 22:56 | |
| sebsebseb | no IE8 with Windows 7 by default in Europe :) | Jul 19 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe the see the writing on the wall, and don't want to limit their potential userbase | Jul 19 22:56 |
| sebsebseb | hopefuly the OEM's will put Firefox or Opera or some such on instead | Jul 19 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: that's not good news, it's a scam | Jul 19 22:57 |
| ThistleWeb | they know they can force OEMs to put IE on | Jul 19 22:57 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: what? and they are doing it to comply with the European Commision, the anti trust and anti competition laws they broke and such | Jul 19 22:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Microsoft Customer Satisfaction Plummets in VendorRate Q2 Report http://eon.businesswire.com/portal/site/eon/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090715005244&newsLang=en | Jul 19 22:57 |
| ThistleWeb | the end result is that they avoid the EU penalty, blame the EU for the situation and still have PC's going to consumers with IE | Jul 19 22:57 |
| ThistleWeb | the EU never asked them to go without any browser | Jul 19 22:58 |
| sebsebseb | not if the EC does it properly, they won't | Jul 19 22:58 |
| ThistleWeb | they dont waht that | Jul 19 22:58 |
| ThistleWeb | they never wanted that | Jul 19 22:58 |
| ThistleWeb | MS jumped the gun, and announced that as THEIR solution | Jul 19 22:58 |
| ThistleWeb | then blamed the EU for the fallout | Jul 19 22:58 |
| ThistleWeb | the EU's prefered solution would be to have a number of browsers that user could select from by default | Jul 19 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Banshee meeting... http://abock.org/2009/07/11/caught-in-the-act | Jul 19 22:59 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, it's a stunt | Jul 19 22:59 |
| sebsebseb | people in Europe have to clean install for Windows 7, well that's a good thing, since clean installing will mean all/most malicious programs are gone | Jul 19 23:00 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: eh? this only affects IE from the base install, not all the trialware companies like Norton pay to have on new pcs | Jul 19 23:01 |
| ThistleWeb | it dont affect any MS lack of security | Jul 19 23:01 |
| ThistleWeb | it's ONLY about whether IE is installed by default | Jul 19 23:01 |
| ThistleWeb | even after it's removed, some parts of it are left behind as they are too core to Windows | Jul 19 23:02 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: you know what a botnet is right? | Jul 19 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | it's just the browser part that's gone | Jul 19 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | of course | Jul 19 23:02 |
| Yeah, it's not like people are going to get a choice of OS. | Jul 19 23:02 | |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: if a computer that is part of a botnet get's clean installed, it probably will no longer be part of that botnet | Jul 19 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | which applies to a clean install of any OS | Jul 19 23:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS wants to settled now with the EU so it can release Seven. MS will release Seven with or without the EU appovial, but knows it will be fined later | Jul 19 23:03 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: yep and Windows 7 will be a reason for many people to do clean installs | Jul 19 23:03 |
| ThistleWeb | OSX, Linux or Windows | Jul 19 23:03 |
| It takes less time for a "clean" Winblows box to get owned than it does to download patches. | Jul 19 23:03 | |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: well in Europe anyway, since they can't just upgrade to it | Jul 19 23:03 |
| It's not a matter of if your Windows box is part of a bot net, it's a matter of how many and what are they doing. | Jul 19 23:03 | |
| ThistleWeb | you're dreaming. It'll be an excuse for peeps to assume their PC cant take Windows 7, and have to throw it out to go buy a new one with Windows 7 already on | Jul 19 23:03 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: indeed, also you can do as much scanning and so on as you want, but can't guarantee the malware is truely gone | Jul 19 23:03 |
| ThistleWeb | specially if the spec is right | Jul 19 23:04 |
| ThistleWeb | most normal peeps dont install an OS | Jul 19 23:04 |
| ThistleWeb | when it gets slow, they assume it needs replaced | Jul 19 23:04 |
| ThistleWeb | so they go buy a new PC | Jul 19 23:04 |
| ThistleWeb | they dont know theres any separation between the OS and the PC | Jul 19 23:04 |
| scanning has to be done on network traffic to know what's going on. Of course, Windows is not what you use for that. | Jul 19 23:04 | |
| ThistleWeb | to them, it's all one thing | Jul 19 23:04 |
| sebsebseb | well throwing out the old PC which was part of the botnet same thing, no longer part of a botnet | Jul 19 23:05 |
| ThistleWeb | the people who do know about OS's and do wipe and install, are not liekly the ones who leave gaping holes to get infected anyway | Jul 19 23:05 |
| Well, you don't have to throw the computer out, you could just put some nice free software on it. | Jul 19 23:05 | |
| ThistleWeb | yep, that assumes they know about or care about OS security | Jul 19 23:05 |
| ThistleWeb | or have the money to go buy a new PC, if the old one still works for them | Jul 19 23:06 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: or disconnect it from the net, but also most of them won't know there computer is being used for that, of course anyway | Jul 19 23:06 |
| HivenGlaven | most dont even know or care about OS's | Jul 19 23:06 |
| No one can get rid of M$'s gaping holes but M$ and they don't have the resources to do it. | Jul 19 23:06 | |
| ThistleWeb | peeps who understand about OS's / security etc are more likely to CHOOSE their OS, not use the default that comes with it | Jul 19 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: if that's really true, maybe they could be like Virtualbox, have a closed source version with some extra features, and an opensource version. yep I am talking having to versions of Windows, but right the problem is, it's not so easy for them tod do that kind of thing, since they want to continue to sell Windows, even though they already have a lot of money | Jul 19 23:07 |
| ThistleWeb | twitter: minimize the holes as much as the regular user can without being paranoid and spending all day doing it | Jul 19 23:07 |
| Yes, but free software users have to go through all sorts of trouble with uncooperative device makers. | Jul 19 23:07 | |
| sebsebseb | well one day ReactOS will be ready | Jul 19 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | that will be our opensource version of Windows :) | Jul 19 23:08 |
| The only fix for Windows is to liberate it. | Jul 19 23:08 | |
| ThistleWeb | yep, finally, I can't wait for an open source version of a version of Windows that's 10 years old | Jul 19 23:08 |
| ThistleWeb | it'll be much better than that modern rubbish I have to use | Jul 19 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | indeed | Jul 19 23:08 |
| If M$ were to liberate Windows, it might be worth using in five years or so. | Jul 19 23:09 | |
| sebsebseb | and realistically most of the apps people want to run that are Windows apps, are XP apps | Jul 19 23:09 |
| *ThistleWeb thinks sebsebseb missed the sarcasm in my last comment | Jul 19 23:09 | |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: I thought you were being sarcastic at first, but then the second bit | Jul 19 23:09 |
| ThistleWeb | I have XP on a dual boot, I only use it when I REALLY have to, I try to plan it out so I spend as little time there as possible | Jul 19 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | I have Ubuntu and Vista on dual boot, in fact I been looking for another distro, but hmm | Jul 19 23:10 |
| ThistleWeb | the only reason I dual boot is that my PC ain't big enough for a virtual XP | Jul 19 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | anyway I haven't booted up Vista since some time last year | Jul 19 23:10 |
| I have not had to use Windows in the last ten years or so. | Jul 19 23:10 | |
| My work uses it, so I'm still in touch with what shit it is. | Jul 19 23:11 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: heh | Jul 19 23:11 |
| ThistleWeb | if it wasn't for Creative tying into Windows Media Player I wouldn't have to dual boot at all | Jul 19 23:11 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: you can Wine WMP | Jul 19 23:11 |
| schestowitz | http://linuxologist.com/linux-general/richard-stallman-dancing-with-gnu/ | Jul 19 23:11 |
| What piece of hardware do you have? | Jul 19 23:11 | |
| sebsebseb | who? | Jul 19 23:12 |
| It would be better to replace the hardware than to fool around with Windows. | Jul 19 23:12 | |
| ThistleWeb | so when I encode videos for my Zen, the only encoding that seems to work consistently is Creative's own software which won't work in Linux at all | Jul 19 23:12 |
| Ah. | Jul 19 23:12 | |
| I'll have to stay away from Zen. | Jul 19 23:12 | |
| shame | Jul 19 23:12 | |
| ThistleWeb | so I have no choice but to bump stuff across to my XP partition, reboot into it and encode | Jul 19 23:13 |
| Wine won't do? | Jul 19 23:13 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what kind of vid's do you encode ThishleWeb? flash? | Jul 19 23:13 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a great player, gnomad2 works fine for interacting with it, it's just encoding videos for it that's a pain | Jul 19 23:13 |
| ThistleWeb | it varies | Jul 19 23:13 |
| ThistleWeb | some codecs encode fine with avidemux | Jul 19 23:14 |
| ThistleWeb | others just dont | Jul 19 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla quashes first critical bug in Firefox 3.5, beats Microsoft to patch punch < http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/071709-mozilla-quashes-first-critical-bug.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news > "Microsoft's IE ActiveX vulnerability, disclosed same day as Firefox's bug, not yet fixed" | Jul 19 23:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | avidemux is great program, agreed | Jul 19 23:14 |
| ThistleWeb | if I could find the magic mencoder command with the flags I'd be happy | Jul 19 23:14 |
| The shill press seems to be talking up Yahoo/M$ talks again. | Jul 19 23:14 | |
| ThistleWeb | that way I could pass that to the vid, and know the output file will work | Jul 19 23:14 |
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| Chips_B_Malroy | let me get u a link Thistleweb | Jul 19 23:14 |
| ThistleWeb | getting stuff onto and off of the Zen is fine with gnomad2 | Jul 19 23:15 |
| ThistleWeb | playlist stuff is fine too | Jul 19 23:15 |
| ThistleWeb | it's just damn video encoding | Jul 19 23:15 |
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| jessica_lilly | why | Jul 19 23:15 |
| schestowitz | Because. | Jul 19 23:15 |
| what | Jul 19 23:15 | |
| ThistleWeb | despite all that, the Zen is a nice mp4 player | Jul 19 23:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ThistleWeb: http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22071 | Jul 19 23:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | read though that and see if it is anything like what you do | Jul 19 23:17 |
| *jessica_lilly (n=jessica@88-109-66-122.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has left #boycottnovell | Jul 19 23:17 | |
| ThistleWeb | oh yeah, and the Zen don't recognise ogg, just FYI | Jul 19 23:17 |
| ThistleWeb | some players do, but dont mention it in the spec list | Jul 19 23:17 |
| ThistleWeb | or at least mine dont | Jul 19 23:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I use smplayer , kaffene and Xine as my main players | Jul 19 23:18 |
| ThistleWeb | smplayer is awesome | Jul 19 23:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and there is a port of smplayer for windows as well, which is a good replacement for WMP | Jul 19 23:18 |
| ThistleWeb | cheers for that link, the second last post may do the trick with ffmpeg | Jul 19 23:19 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah I noticed that a few weeks back | Jul 19 23:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | glad you like it, hope it helps u 2 | Jul 19 23:19 |
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| Chips_B_Malroy | ffmpeg is great program, and Vive is a gui front end for it | Jul 19 23:20 |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 19 23:21 | |
| ThistleWeb | I'll try it tomorrow maybe when I'm less tired, but yeah I found that a few vids worked but wouldn't allow easy forwarding / rewinding. the Zen also remembers where the video was last played to if encoded right | Jul 19 23:21 |
| If you want mpeg4, upload it to youtube then get it back with clive | Jul 19 23:21 | |
| ThistleWeb | it was VERY hit and miss with every method I tried | Jul 19 23:21 |
| otherwise, you might be running into patent problems. | Jul 19 23:21 | |
| there's a free software site that provides the "essential codecs" but they can't be distributed in the US and other non free countries. | Jul 19 23:22 | |
| Here's M$ acting poorly to their own people http://www.pcworld.com/article/168645/microsoft_goons_break_up_sql_server_meeting.html | Jul 19 23:22 | |
| nice | Jul 19 23:23 | |
| *sebsebseb () has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 23:23 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | twitter, the patent problems. Most likely they never sue home users. But Distro's yes, its why MONO is a problem | Jul 19 23:23 |
| right, but it's also why some video formats don't work out of the box | Jul 19 23:23 | |
| ThistleWeb | I just got annoyed with the spec sheet on the Zen saying it supports wmv with wma sound (the default the Creative app uses) and mp4 yet when I do that it sometimes partly works | Jul 19 23:24 |
| I have not seen any like that in a long time, but it has happened before. | Jul 19 23:24 | |
| *_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jul 19 23:24 | |
| ThistleWeb | anyhoo, I'll drop the subject and try those options later ty | Jul 19 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | webpigeon: hi welcome to the channal | Jul 19 23:24 |
| when things don't work with free software, I take them back for a refund. | Jul 19 23:25 | |
| ThistleWeb | brb | Jul 19 23:25 |
| You don't have to mention anything other than, "It did not work with my computer" | Jul 19 23:25 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | only place u can, cause ms will not give u any back | Jul 19 23:25 |
| Windows people have these problems frequently, so the store will give you your money back without a problem. | Jul 19 23:26 | |
| Usually. | Jul 19 23:26 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Jul 19 23:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the store yes, not ms | Jul 19 23:27 |
| here comes the bad news for M$ and the blow softening and excuses has already started. | Jul 19 23:27 | |
| http://www.pcworld.com/article/168658/seven_reasons_microsofts_profits_are_tanking.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a41:g26:r15:c0.010425:b26509896:z0 | Jul 19 23:27 | |
| http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090717-711707.html | Jul 19 23:27 | |
| terrible scripts in that last one | Jul 19 23:29 | |
| -> Wall Street analysts on average estimate that Microsoft will post earnings of 36 cents a share for the period ending in June, on $14.38 billion in revenue, according to data from Thomson Reuters. That compares with earnings of 46 cents a share and $15.84 billion in revenue in the same period a year earlier | Jul 19 23:29 | |
| 22% decline. | Jul 19 23:30 | |
| sebsebseb | What's so bad about Novell? Ok Mono which some will say is rather bad, thing is Banshee and F-Spot are ok apps. Then of course the Novell and Microsoft patents deal, but other then this? | Jul 19 23:30 |
| other than selling everyone out, nothing. | Jul 19 23:30 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: selling everyone out??? | Jul 19 23:30 |
| taking money from M$ and validating bogus patent claims. that's a sell out. | Jul 19 23:31 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: are they really bogus though? ,but what I read before is basically if they say which patents, the proggrammers will just program round them anyway | Jul 19 23:32 |
| Novell is partly responsible for M$'s patent extortion | Jul 19 23:32 | |
| yes, software patents are really bogus | Jul 19 23:32 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Nice link Twitter, even I did not think it would be that bad | Jul 19 23:32 |
| and M$ won't even specify which ones they are | Jul 19 23:32 | |
| sebsebseb | yep | Jul 19 23:32 |
| I've got a little write up on M$'s patent claims. | Jul 19 23:33 | |
| http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219107 | Jul 19 23:33 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 19 23:33 | |
| It's been a lie all along. | Jul 19 23:33 | |
| M$ has tried to claim ownership of code they fought tooth an nail for a decade. Novell has helped them make that claim. | Jul 19 23:34 | |
| Now that Novell has validated those bogus claims they seek to shove mono into everyone's face and try to use their payoff as some sort of market differentiator. | Jul 19 23:35 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy, we don't really know what M$ will actually post. | Jul 19 23:36 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Novell is just trying to survive by taking the Borg's money. But it will not work. Novell needs to sell out the company like Sun did | Jul 19 23:36 |
| It could be better or worse. | Jul 19 23:36 | |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: sell it out to who? Microsoft? | Jul 19 23:36 |
| Novell could have trimmed down and become a free software company like Red Hat did. | Jul 19 23:36 | |
| Red Hat has been growing while Novell has been failing. | Jul 19 23:37 | |
| sebsebseb | yep | Jul 19 23:37 |
| Doing as M$ says is only good for M$. Those that survive are those that get out from under the M$ thumb. | Jul 19 23:37 | |
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| sebsebseb | why did Sun sell themselves to Oracale? | Jul 19 23:38 |
| tacone1 | money ? | Jul 19 23:39 |
| tacone1 | or ponies, maybe | Jul 19 23:39 |
| schestowitz | I've just banned lefty | Jul 19 23:39 |
| schestowitz | He saw the new policy | Jul 19 23:39 |
| schestowitz | And violated it twice | Jul 19 23:39 |
| tacone1 | wow, link ? | Jul 19 23:39 |
| oiaohm | Mostly size sebsebseb | Jul 19 23:39 |
| oiaohm | Sun was slowly getting run under. | Jul 19 23:39 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: may I make a friendly freenode guidelines suggestion? | Jul 19 23:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Novell is not all evil, its doing the bidding of the Borg, because it gets the money, and M$ wants Silverlight in Linux, with other poisons perhaps. M$ doesn't want to be seen porting anything to Linux also. Because Linux is only 1%, if you believe Net APPS, which MS pays for | Jul 19 23:39 |
| oiaohm | Sun did not only try to sell themselves to Oracle. | Jul 19 23:40 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well I wil anyway, don't show op all the time | Jul 19 23:40 |
| schestowitz | What do you mean "show"? | Jul 19 23:40 |
| sebsebseb | there's a page about it | Jul 19 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Jul 19 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Sun tried to sell themselves to everyone bar novell who are platium members in the Linux foundation. | Jul 19 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Getting ops only when required? | Jul 19 23:41 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yes | Jul 19 23:41 |
| schestowitz | OK | Jul 19 23:41 |
| tacone1 | schestowitz: that's a best practice | Jul 19 23:41 |
| schestowitz | I used to do that. We still need another op for when one's away | Jul 19 23:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but the truth is M$ cannot beat Google, or Adobe Flash, so it needs to port Silverlight to Linux somehow, enter Novell. MS knows that Linux has more share than Mac. Why else port Silverlight? | Jul 19 23:41 |
| Novell is failing. Cooperating with M$ will do that to you. | Jul 19 23:41 | |
| tacone1 | whatever that means | Jul 19 23:41 |
| schestowitz | A troll has been using this channel today (and the BN blog) to libel me a lot | Jul 19 23:41 |
| schestowitz | We had to ban him | Jul 19 23:41 |
| Google doing well http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=adSflvVOlq8s | Jul 19 23:41 | |
| tacone1 | boycottnovell down ? | Jul 19 23:41 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh I am sure loads of people here would love to become op | Jul 19 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Novell is not exactly failing. | Jul 19 23:42 |
| tacone1 | someone got angry :) | Jul 19 23:42 |
| profits up 19% | Jul 19 23:42 | |
| oiaohm | Novell only growing department is Linux. | Jul 19 23:42 |
| schestowitz | THey sell lose money, oiaohm | Jul 19 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Novell loses money in SUSE | Jul 19 23:42 |
| *tacone1 guessing we just discovered who the dosser is | Jul 19 23:42 | |
| schestowitz | AFAIK | Jul 19 23:42 |
| schestowitz | I hear contradoictory reports sometimes | Jul 19 23:42 |
| tacone1 | DOSS ? | Jul 19 23:42 |
| -> Net income rose 19 percent to $1.48 billion, or $4.66 a share, from $1.25 billion, or $3.92, a year earlier, the company said today in a statement. Excluding revenue passed on to partner sites, sales were $4.07 billion, compared with an estimate of $4.06 billion in a Bloomberg survey of analysts. | Jul 19 23:42 | |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 19 23:43 | |
| schestowitz | The impression I have left is that SUSE was described as something Novell see GROWTH in, but not monetary success if it still loses money | Jul 19 23:43 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Novell is lossing more money in there closed source departments that most people know nothing about. | Jul 19 23:43 |
| schestowitz | GRWOTH means all sorts of things, depending on how it's measured. But I'd have to recheck to be sure | Jul 19 23:43 |
| Novell will see neither growth nor success unless they renounce software patents. | Jul 19 23:43 | |
| oiaohm | Funny enouth only part of Novell that could be profitable is SUSE. | Jul 19 23:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Netware cannot be a moneymaker anymore | Jul 19 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Mostly because MS is pushing it. | Jul 19 23:44 |
| schestowitz | ping tessier | Jul 19 23:44 |
| tacone1 | ohohoh someone just fired up his wget | Jul 19 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Maybe | Jul 19 23:45 |
| same someone as just got banned fired up their wget? | Jul 19 23:47 | |
| tacone1 | twitter: eheh we'll never know. maybe :) | Jul 19 23:47 |
| sebsebseb | anyone in here use Novell? :D | Jul 19 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Not at moment sebsebseb but I do have to use it if that is what businesses want. | Jul 19 23:49 |
| tacone1 | i use compiz. does that count ? :) | Jul 19 23:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | long time ago before Novell got It I use it for awhile | Jul 19 23:49 |
| sebsebseb | tacone1: compiz is made by Novell??? | Jul 19 23:49 |
| notzed | they're stuck a bit in their glory days when they made so much money. and their customers don't like any change ... until they just drop novell stuff entirely | Jul 19 23:49 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: what do you do? | Jul 19 23:50 |
| tacone1 | it was a novell initiative | Jul 19 23:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but mostly back then I was still a Windows user | Jul 19 23:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | [07:03:31] <oiaohm> Funny enouth only part of Novell that could be profitable is SUSE. | Jul 19 23:50 |
| tacone1 | then it was forked and counter forked | Jul 19 23:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: not true | Jul 19 23:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: mono is very profitable... have you seen how much microsoft pays them? | Jul 19 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Mono is less profitable than the SUSE section. | Jul 19 23:51 |
| sebsebseb | tacone1: oh yeah the first Compiz was Novell | Jul 19 23:51 |
| sebsebseb | tacone1: then Beryl as a fork, and then that got forked back into Compiz Fushion | Jul 19 23:51 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly correct sebsebseb | Jul 19 23:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So what happens in 2 years time when the hidden agreement between Novell and the Borg comes to an end? Doesn't GPL3 stop future agreements like this again | Jul 19 23:51 |
| tacone1 | I'm a big fan of novell devs :) | Jul 19 23:51 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: what's the exact correct then? | Jul 19 23:51 |
| oiaohm | Compiz started out as a joint Novell | Jul 19 23:51 |
| oiaohm | Redhat | Jul 19 23:51 |
| oiaohm | Project. | Jul 19 23:51 |
| oiaohm | Novell double crossed Redhat so they could release it working first. | Jul 19 23:52 |
| tacone1 | oiaohm: elaborate | Jul 19 23:52 |
| tacone1 | it was a redhat project ? | Jul 19 23:52 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: why boycottnovell instead of boycottmicrosoft ? | Jul 19 23:52 |
| schestowitz | I didn't choose the domain name | Jul 19 23:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | careful roy | Jul 19 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Both redhat and novell were working on the GLX framework that compiz depends on. compiz started life as the test application for what they were doing. | Jul 19 23:53 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: heh, true I might be Steve Ballmer in desguise or something :D | Jul 19 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Novell is attack vector on Linux | Jul 19 23:53 |
| ThistleWeb | MS have always been hostile, Novell pre-MS-sell-out were supposedly one of the Linux / FOSS community | Jul 19 23:53 |
| tacone1 | uh, interesting oiaohm | Jul 19 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Part way threw development novell decide to change to internal developers only. | Jul 19 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's 'Linux department' | Jul 19 23:53 |
| oiaohm | So execulding redhat. | Jul 19 23:53 |
| oiaohm | And every other interested open source developer. | Jul 19 23:53 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: what do you mean by that? | Jul 19 23:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or Lefty, but you probably ok | Jul 19 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Novell took up Linux because netware failed. | Jul 19 23:54 |
| oiaohm | They are not really a friend of Linux. | Jul 19 23:54 |
| notzed | their mindset is pretty much proprietary through and through | Jul 19 23:54 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Netware was pretty popular, and yeah with my limited Novell knowledge, I thought the same thing before, Novell aren't really a freesoftware/opensource company they bought OpenSuse to make money | Jul 19 23:55 |
| ThistleWeb | there are plenty of companies who use FOSS / Linux for their own aims primarily on cost without caring at all about what powers it | Jul 19 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Novell actions have been harmful to the Linux world before MS got mixed up with Novell. | Jul 19 23:55 |
| *tessier has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 19 23:55 | |
| sebsebseb | Redhat make money as well, but they respect the opensource/freesoftware community and such as well | Jul 19 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Lot of companies use OSS to there open ends. | Jul 19 23:55 |
| tacone1 | they also love rms | Jul 19 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Very few double cross developers. | Jul 19 23:56 |
| sebsebseb | tacone1: Redhat do? | Jul 19 23:56 |
| tacone1 | no. sorry. that is wrong | Jul 19 23:56 |
| tacone1 | i confused tihngs :) | Jul 19 23:56 |
| tacone1 | i don't know if they love him or not. | Jul 19 23:56 |
| oiaohm | Ie open source a project once showing promise switch to internal development so they can release first. As novell has done many times. | Jul 19 23:56 |
| sebsebseb | Google aren't 100% Linux friendly though I guess, hence for example why there is no Google Talk app for Linux, well I think there may be on Android, but otherwise no | Jul 19 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Any project Redhat has released the source code to and invited OSS developers in they will never kick them out. | Jul 19 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Google Talk is jabber protocal sebsebseb | Jul 19 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Google saw no need to release another jabber client on Linux. | Jul 19 23:57 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I know, but this is a nice app http://www.google.com/talk sadly what I just said | Jul 19 23:58 |
| ThistleWeb | Google are mixed on FOSS, they do favour Windows for their apps, but on the other hand they run all Linux servers for their web front end, and have Summer Of Code which helps FOSS prohects | Jul 19 23:58 |
| ThistleWeb | every time you interact with Google, you use Linux | Jul 19 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Google is not hostile. | Jul 19 23:58 |
| oiaohm | They are like redhat. | Jul 19 23:58 |
| notzed | what's the voice/video protocol in google talk? | Jul 19 23:58 |
| tacone1 | jabber | Jul 19 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | yeah the voice/video dosn't work in Gmail on Linux, I think it will in Windows | Jul 19 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | there was something that woudn't work on Linux in gmail | Jul 19 23:59 |
| tacone1 | uhm. maybe it was released for linux | Jul 19 23:59 |
| tacone1 | ? | Jul 19 23:59 |
| oiaohm | voice and video can be made work with the right jabber client on Linux sebsebseb | Jul 19 23:59 |
| tacone1 | i guess there were news on that front | Jul 19 23:59 |
| oiaohm | gtalk uses nothing special. | Jul 19 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: what's a good jabber client, Pidgin isn't that great really | Jul 19 23:59 |
| tacone1 | please check | Jul 19 23:59 |
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