| ul 21 00:00:26 <sebsebseb>schestowitz: if I have this correct, open source is just a development model, it's a way to make software and that's that, where as with free software it's pretty much the same thing reallly, except they care much more about the freedoms that are gained | ||
| sebsebseb | and open source is likely to get commercial branding, where as free software won't? | Jul 21 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| mikankun | yeah open source is more of a development model while free software is more of a philosophy | Jul 21 00:01 |
| oiaohm | Problem is not everyone working on open source are doing it for free. | Jul 21 00:02 |
| oiaohm | To be correct most are not. | Jul 21 00:02 |
| mikankun | the term open source came about from people wanting to promote free software to businesses without talking about freedom | Jul 21 00:02 |
| sebsebseb | mikankun: did it oh? | Jul 21 00:02 |
| oiaohm | Lot are paid to do tech support. | Jul 21 00:02 |
| oiaohm | Or added features there company wants mikankun | Jul 21 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Swine flu will [enter scare words here]... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/19/swine_flu_internet/ | Jul 21 00:03 |
| oiaohm | MS CPAL normally does not cover everyone working on open source projects. | Jul 21 00:03 |
| sebsebseb | Firefox is freesoftware nope, the Debian thing, etc. FSF having a version of their own etc | Jul 21 00:03 |
| mikankun | oiahm; I know. Stallman himself made money by adding things to emacs for different companies | Jul 21 00:03 |
| *mkhelp (i=R1@79.126.143.251) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 00:03 | |
| *mkhelp (i=R1@79.126.143.251) has left #boycottnovell | Jul 21 00:04 | |
| mikankun | firefox is free software | Jul 21 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Firefox is still classed as free software. | Jul 21 00:04 |
| schestowitz | No | Jul 21 00:04 |
| schestowitz | MPL | Jul 21 00:04 |
| sebsebseb | if Firefox is free software, why is there Iceweasel in Debian? | Jul 21 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Trademark is protected. | Jul 21 00:05 |
| mikankun | because firefox images are trademarked | Jul 21 00:05 |
| sebsebseb | exactly | Jul 21 00:05 |
| sebsebseb | the code is open source | Jul 21 00:05 |
| sebsebseb | which means | Jul 21 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Program is still freesoftware | Jul 21 00:05 |
| sebsebseb | a proper free software version can be made using that code, however the program itself surely isn't free software, because of the trademarks and branding? | Jul 21 00:05 |
| oiaohm | You can still take it rework it. | Jul 21 00:05 |
| oiaohm | If you read GPL licencing. | Jul 21 00:05 |
| oiaohm | You will find it strictly forbid what Debian did. | Jul 21 00:06 |
| sebsebseb | also surely true free software has to be lisensed under the GPL :) | Jul 21 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Think Chromium/Chrome | Jul 21 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Ie patch program and not alter version to show it as such. | Jul 21 00:06 |
| mikankun | the MPL is a GPL compatible free software license | Jul 21 00:06 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yep Chrome is Chromium with Google's propritary stuff | Jul 21 00:06 |
| schestowitz | RHEL for artword | Jul 21 00:07 |
| schestowitz | *work | Jul 21 00:07 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: hmm? and quite a few versions distros out there, that are Redhat without it's branding | Jul 21 00:07 |
| schestowitz | 4 I know if | Jul 21 00:07 |
| schestowitz | *of | Jul 21 00:07 |
| sebsebseb | as for Ubuntu it's obviosuly a mixture of open source and free software, hence also why there is gnewsense and such | Jul 21 00:08 |
| sebsebseb | and the branding yeah | Jul 21 00:08 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Cisco might not be as rich as you suggested http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/20/cisco_job_cuts/ | Jul 21 00:08 |
| mikankun | the ubuntu repositories contain non-free software | Jul 21 00:08 |
| sebsebseb | mikankun: some of them | Jul 21 00:08 |
| schestowitz | There's also what Slated calls "poisonware" | Jul 21 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Like Mono | Jul 21 00:08 |
| schestowitz | With MCP and some exclusions | Jul 21 00:09 |
| sebsebseb | here we go the Mono hate :D | Jul 21 00:09 |
| mikankun | yeah I know not all of them | Jul 21 00:09 |
| schestowitz | "If you threaten to sue people when you get butthurt … don’t even bother." http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/20/mono-nono-forums-open/ | Jul 21 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jul 21 00:10 |
| oiaohm | 66,558 employees << note staff numbers. | Jul 21 00:10 |
| oiaohm | 2000 is not many. | Jul 21 00:10 |
| schestowitz | No rumours about more MS layoffs | Jul 21 00:10 |
| oiaohm | Thinking downturn stoped a lot of hardware updateds. | Jul 21 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Just a modest proposal from mini-Microsoft | Jul 21 00:10 |
| schestowitz | If layoffs come next week, nobody spoke about it | Jul 21 00:11 |
| schestowitz | tacone here: http://mono-nono.com/bbpress/topic/hello | Jul 21 00:11 |
| *pk has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 00:13 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 00:16 | |
| schestowitz | Byfield has just published about RMS and cult of VIrgin Mary | Jul 21 00:25 |
| schestowitz | As expected, he took the side that's against RMS | Jul 21 00:25 |
| schestowitz | I don't think balance was fair there at all | Jul 21 00:25 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: what's this> | Jul 21 00:26 |
| sebsebseb | ? | Jul 21 00:26 |
| schestowitz | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/12068_3830651_3/Richard-Stallman-Leadership-and-Sexism.htm | Jul 21 00:27 |
| gnewsense is ubuntu without non free drivers, flash and other non free software. -> sebsebseb: as for Ubuntu it's obviosuly a mixture of open source and free software, hence also why there is gnewsense and such | Jul 21 00:27 | |
| *Hammerhead (n=Hammerhe@mail2.astac.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 00:29 | |
| Hammerhead | visio guru's? | Jul 21 00:29 |
| schestowitz | Who wants op for the night? | Jul 21 00:29 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: me, but I may not be here in a few hours or so | Jul 21 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Heh. Net Freedom: Italian Blog Strike < http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/CommercialOpenSourceSoftware/~3/RLDMvq15rPc/ >x | Jul 21 00:30 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: I would trust someone who has been here for a long time to build trust | Jul 21 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I thought I might get refused :) it's ok though | Jul 21 00:30 |
| schestowitz | We just had trolls here recently, so we need to leave it guarded | Jul 21 00:31 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: yep and I used it in vm before | Jul 21 00:31 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well anti Novell stuff is going to attract some trolls, for obvious reasons, as in not everyone will agree, and others may not even care, but want to troll some where, because they think it's fun | Jul 21 00:33 |
| schestowitz | gnu/opensolaris might never be a reality | Jul 21 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Not under the guard of Oracle. They don't care about freedom | Jul 21 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | yeah opensolaris on the desktop seems pointless, well it's really a server OS and such? | Jul 21 00:34 |
| Is there enough of OpenSolaris that's free for it to live on it's own? | Jul 21 00:34 | |
| schestowitz | Oracle has btrfs | Jul 21 00:34 |
| sebsebseb | oh there are some OS's out there that use the opensolaris kernel, I have even tried one or two or three or whatever in vm recentlyish, not a proper try though | Jul 21 00:35 |
| Phillips uses Solaris | Jul 21 00:35 | |
| schestowitz | It could mix some stuff with zfs and make a better Linux | Jul 21 00:35 |
| schestowitz | twitter: also Windows in scanner front end | Jul 21 00:35 |
| sebsebseb | scanner front end??? | Jul 21 00:35 |
| Enough people use Solaris that they might want to liberate it if Oracle decides to kill. | Jul 21 00:35 | |
| schestowitz | Free from Philips, iRex launches A4 e-book reader http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/09/22/new_electronic_book/ | Jul 21 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Philips patent racket: Philips could be in the firing line after Sisvel's Berlin patent raids < http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/Detail.aspx?g=5523983a-dfa1-4300-9387-817edba3e325 > | Jul 21 00:36 |
| It might be easier to liberate Solaris than it would be to port all the legacy code that runs on top. | Jul 21 00:37 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: well opensolaris and Java and Virtualbox are open source, so if Oracale mess them up, the code will get forked and live on as something else I expect | Jul 21 00:37 |
| Ian Murdock said that Solaris 11 was going to be Open Solaris. | Jul 21 00:37 | |
| There's a lot of scientific software that runs on Solaris, though much of it has been ported to GNU/Linux for obvious reasons. | Jul 21 00:38 | |
| schestowitz | Possible | Jul 21 00:38 |
| schestowitz | OOSolaris | Jul 21 00:38 |
| notzed | i tried opensolaris on a new box. it didn't even boot. on and old box it was just way too slow to start up to be competetive with linux as a desktop os | Jul 21 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Oracle OpenSolaris | Jul 21 00:39 |
| schestowitz | With OOo | Jul 21 00:39 |
| schestowitz | OOOo | Jul 21 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Oracle OpenOffice.org | Jul 21 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | uh | Jul 21 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | has it been renamed? | Jul 21 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | already? | Jul 21 00:39 |
| schestowitz | OOS+OOOo ooooooooooooo! Shiny | Jul 21 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Oracle office=Orifice | Jul 21 00:40 |
| schestowitz | Instead of seagulls the branding is a shark | Jul 21 00:40 |
| One of the most popular radiation therapy treatment planning systems runs on top of Solaris, so does a lot of other radiation transport code. | Jul 21 00:40 | |
| *Lns has quit ("Φ") | Jul 21 00:40 | |
| Sun used to make very hard to beat workstations. | Jul 21 00:41 | |
| sebsebseb | notzed: Open Office still has the Sun branding for now | Jul 21 00:41 |
| sebsebseb | :) | Jul 21 00:41 |
| sebsebseb | it seems | Jul 21 00:41 |
| Now serious work gets done on GNU/Linux clusters, but it would be nice if Sun liberated enough of Solaris to work their hardware as well as x86 cruft. | Jul 21 00:42 | |
| sebsebseb | seems some of you don't like Oracale, and yeah Sun have made them selves or bought out some interesting products | Jul 21 00:42 |
| What's to like about Oracle ? | Jul 21 00:42 | |
| sebsebseb | interesting programs | Jul 21 00:42 |
| such as? | Jul 21 00:43 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: I don't really know anything about them, except that they have a commercial database which is very popular, and they also have it for Linux :) | Jul 21 00:43 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: Virtualbox :) that was a good buy from Innotek | Jul 21 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Branding of Openoffice will only change when the transfer is fully complete. | Jul 21 00:43 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: Java is pretty popular, and Open Office, sadly Open Office isn't popular enough to compete properly against Microsoft Office | Jul 21 00:44 |
| I was asking what of interest Oracle has... and now they have it all. Ahhhh. | Jul 21 00:44 | |
| oiaohm | Issue here openoffice really is not trying against Ms Office. | Jul 21 00:44 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: and now they have it all? | Jul 21 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Major changes will happen to openoffice due to Koffice heading to windows and mac. | Jul 21 00:45 |
| sebsebseb | well not exactly, I mean Google also have some great apps :) | Jul 21 00:45 |
| Open Office has competed with that M$ cruft rather well. | Jul 21 00:45 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is afraid oif Google Apps | Jul 21 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Opensource vs Opensource drives open source. | Jul 21 00:45 |
| schestowitz | It targets it with a lot of FUD | Jul 21 00:45 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yep hence Office 2010 online | Jul 21 00:45 |
| schestowitz | And beyond | Jul 21 00:45 |
| oiaohm | Opensource really does not compete with closed. | Jul 21 00:45 |
| in outer space | Jul 21 00:46 | |
| schestowitz | People don't go out and buy software | Jul 21 00:46 |
| on the moon | Jul 21 00:46 | |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: as long as it works on Linux :D altough I would rather use Google Docs of course | Jul 21 00:46 |
| schestowitz | Noi if they can hope online and get going | Jul 21 00:46 |
| schestowitz | Google Apps gives this to kids | Jul 21 00:46 |
| So will companies, when they find out they have to pay for M$'s online stuff anyway. | Jul 21 00:46 | |
| schestowitz | So they dump office in schools and stuff.. to young ages | Jul 21 00:46 |
| schestowitz | OOXML for lockin | Jul 21 00:46 |
| schestowitz | Not even ECMA OOXML | Jul 21 00:46 |
| sebsebseb | yep | Jul 21 00:46 |
| Is anyone using that OOXML shit yet? | Jul 21 00:46 | |
| schestowitz | Just some proprietary 'stuff' | Jul 21 00:47 |
| oiaohm | Dumping Software is not something Ms can do for ever. | Jul 21 00:47 |
| schestowitz | I got my first .docx weeks ago... mass mailed.. also with PDF | Jul 21 00:47 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: yeah my Mum at least, and I guess my Dad as well, and loads of other people :( | Jul 21 00:47 |
| oiaohm | It is damaging there bottom line. | Jul 21 00:47 |
| *thenixedreport has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 00:47 | |
| I've heard about some public school systems going there, but I don't think ... ah, your mom. | Jul 21 00:47 | |
| schestowitz | OOXML was good for showing a lot of intl' misconduct | Jul 21 00:47 |
| oiaohm | One of the fun things areas where it dumped on public schools has growning illegal usage. | Jul 21 00:47 |
| oiaohm | ie parrents using kids version for business. | Jul 21 00:48 |
| schestowitz | I can still point at each country and show how Microsoft misbehaved there | Jul 21 00:48 |
| schestowitz | OOXML was a classic | Jul 21 00:48 |
| schestowitz | It forced the beast out of Microsoft's tummy | Jul 21 00:48 |
| oiaohm | So small businesses MS bread and butter are not buying as many copies of Office. | Jul 21 00:48 |
| *Hammerhead has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 21 00:48 | |
| notzed | i don't think it was very far under the surface, that beast | Jul 21 00:48 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: what you mean MS bread and butter? | Jul 21 00:48 |
| oiaohm | Dumping always kicks you in ways you don't expect. | Jul 21 00:48 |
| There's a popular insult from New Orleans, "Y' mama!" as in, "your mother does this and that nasty thing." | Jul 21 00:48 | |
| oiaohm | Most of MS income comes from Small business sebsebseb | Jul 21 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I thought I had made up "Visaster" | Jul 21 00:49 |
| schestowitz | But I see it in other places now.. | Jul 21 00:49 |
| schestowitz | WHo was the first? :-p | Jul 21 00:49 |
| schestowitz | http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10013233o-2000440676b,00.htm | Jul 21 00:49 |
| I wonder if, "Ya mama uses OOXML" would be insulting enough to keep people from using it. | Jul 21 00:49 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well yeah they only properly care about companies, the average computer homeuser/consumer is to ignorant to reolize, and so continues using Micrsooft's stuff pretty happiley | Jul 21 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I published many things with "Visaster" in early 2007 | Jul 21 00:49 |
| oiaohm | Linux distributions really don't target smaller. | Jul 21 00:50 |
| oiaohm | Linux targets larger businesses. | Jul 21 00:50 |
| schestowitz | twitter: why not "Yo Dad"? | Jul 21 00:50 |
| oiaohm | Freeipa tech and other bits are required to make Linux target smaller. | Jul 21 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Or "Yo Son"? | Jul 21 00:50 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: nearly any computer can use Ubuntu for example, with a little help from someone with know how | Jul 21 00:50 |
| I'm not sure. It's a sexist culture. | Jul 21 00:50 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: any computer user above | Jul 21 00:50 |
| schestowitz | Or fun of older generations | Jul 21 00:50 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: I have a computer that can't run ubuntu 9.04 | Jul 21 00:50 |
| oiaohm | Network intergration sebsebseb. | Jul 21 00:50 |
| Balrog_ | only 8.10 | Jul 21 00:50 |
| Balrog_ | :( | Jul 21 00:50 |
| People take offense about their mom more often than their dad. | Jul 21 00:50 | |
| oiaohm | Ads and exchange sebsebseb. | Jul 21 00:51 |
| Lots of single moms might have something to do with it. | Jul 21 00:51 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: networks yeah well I know that Linux can be great for networking, also I think evolution can do exchange stuff now | Jul 21 00:51 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: and Ad's hmm how about a Linux/Unix server instead? :) | Jul 21 00:51 |
| oiaohm | linux is not that great to have central management sebsebseb. | Jul 21 00:51 |
| oiaohm | Its not just plugin join to network server hello central management. | Jul 21 00:52 |
| For men, it's better to think of obscure people. Dentist in Hokido, for example. | Jul 21 00:52 | |
| oiaohm | Something that is needed for the small business market sebsebseb. | Jul 21 00:52 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: how about Apple for networking and all that? ,but right Macs are more expensive than PC's | Jul 21 00:52 |
| oiaohm | Apples lose on price most of the time. | Jul 21 00:52 |
| All that infowar stuff is for M$ people. They like to insult their customers. | Jul 21 00:53 | |
| oiaohm | Apple do have better small business networking than MS really. | Jul 21 00:53 |
| Better to keep the message on target. | Jul 21 00:53 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: what are you talking about? | Jul 21 00:53 |
| People are wonderful. Winblows sucks. | Jul 21 00:53 | |
| Oh, I was just dreaming up anti-OOXML propaganda. | Jul 21 00:53 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: according to oiaohm Winblows dosn't suck, because it's better than Linux for networking and such | Jul 21 00:53 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: or at least for small business's | Jul 21 00:53 |
| See above mention of "Ya mama uses OOXML" | Jul 21 00:54 | |
| oiaohm | No I did not say it was great sebsebseb | Jul 21 00:54 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: well that's basically what he said wasn't it? | Jul 21 00:54 |
| oiaohm | Particular markets have issues with Linux. | Jul 21 00:54 |
| oiaohm is entitled to his wrongness. | Jul 21 00:54 | |
| I ignore him. | Jul 21 00:54 | |
| I'm told he's a M$ rep. | Jul 21 00:54 | |
| sebsebseb | heh | Jul 21 00:55 |
| paid to be here. | Jul 21 00:55 | |
| oiaohm | Wrong twitter | Jul 21 00:55 |
| I don't need that. | Jul 21 00:55 | |
| oiaohm | I am not paid to be here. | Jul 21 00:55 |
| Balrog_ | twitter: that's a little farfetched to say the least | Jul 21 00:55 |
| Windows should not be put on a network, ever. | Jul 21 00:55 | |
| I use it at a small business and it sucks life all day. | Jul 21 00:55 | |
| Balrog_ | but we use Linux where I work ... samba for Windows compatibility | Jul 21 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Issue is setup complexity with small business. | Jul 21 00:56 |
| Balrog_ | the main university computer department recently switched from Exchange server (bad) to gmail (not any better) | Jul 21 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Windows still suxs because its sets up simple and is insecure as hell. | Jul 21 00:56 |
| sebsebseb | Balrog_: gmail not any better? well really gmail is for homeusers/consumers ? | Jul 21 00:56 |
| Balrog_ | it's one of those gmail business contracts | Jul 21 00:57 |
| The M$ network layer itself blows chunks, the GUI representation is awful and and security is the pits. | Jul 21 00:57 | |
| Balrog_ | problem is, google has your data | Jul 21 00:57 |
| M$ networking does not work at all. | Jul 21 00:57 | |
| Why not just run exim? | Jul 21 00:57 | |
| KDE groupware? | Jul 21 00:57 | |
| oiaohm | Windows users have a gui. | Jul 21 00:57 |
| oiaohm | That walks them threw the setup. | Jul 21 00:57 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: so do Linux users :) let's see, Gnome, KDE, XFCE, and so on | Jul 21 00:57 |
| Kontact is best of class. | Jul 21 00:57 | |
| Balrog_ | twitter: oiaohm is right, on that regard. Windows has been making stuff easy for the non-pro end user. Whether it's done right or not, is another story | Jul 21 00:58 |
| Even if M$ had the best applications in the whole world, they would still go down with M$ insecurity. | Jul 21 00:58 | |
| Balrog_ | it's not about 'best' it's about 'easiest' | Jul 21 00:58 |
| sebsebseb | Balrog_: well Ubuntu for example is getting easier and easier, and 6 month release cycles :) where as with Windows well most of the users your talking about are still running XP, and that was released 2001 | Jul 21 00:59 |
| Balrog_ | or more easy then text based | Jul 21 00:59 |
| Balrog_ | true, but we're talking servers here :) | Jul 21 00:59 |
| sebsebseb | Balrog_: now that is a pretty long time ago when we are talking computer software years | Jul 21 00:59 |
| oiaohm | Tell twitter to remove the ingnore he is making a idiot out him self. | Jul 21 00:59 |
| Balrog_ | so far I've found OS X much easier than Windows ... Linux is good but you need to be comfortable with terminal | Jul 21 00:59 |
| sebsebseb | Balrog_: wrong | Jul 21 00:59 |
| oiaohm | Linux issue is simple configuration for small business is not simple enough. | Jul 21 00:59 |
| Balrog_ | it's getting better though | Jul 21 00:59 |
| oiaohm | It needs to be performanable by a idiot. | Jul 21 01:00 |
| notzed | it's nothing to do with easy or best. it's forced bundling and taking middle management out to lunch | Jul 21 01:00 |
| sebsebseb | Balrog_: the average homeuser/consumer can get by rather nicely with Ubuntu really, without using a terminal | Jul 21 01:00 |
| Balrog_ | sebsebseb: I said /servers/ | Jul 21 01:00 |
| oiaohm | Homeuser not needing a network server setup is great. | Jul 21 01:00 |
| sebsebseb | if companies want to be stupid and run Windows server, well that's there problem :) personally I care a lot more about the desktop market | Jul 21 01:00 |
| oiaohm | Linux distrubtions have focused and got the home user and high end right. | Jul 21 01:00 |
| Barlog_ the software I use at home is far easier to use and keep up than anything I use at work. M$ fails all around. | Jul 21 01:01 | |
| oiaohm | They have missed the all important middle. | Jul 21 01:01 |
| Balrog_ | twitter: that's my point. People who want to run a small business server get confused | Jul 21 01:01 |
| oiaohm | Balrog_ tell twitter that its also mine. | Jul 21 01:02 |
| Balrog_ | I personally find Linux easy to set up ... but many people have trouble with terminal and all | Jul 21 01:02 |
| I use gnu/linux at home. | Jul 21 01:02 | |
| oiaohm | Home is fine | Jul 21 01:02 |
| Balrog_ | (I manage a real Linux www server :) ) | Jul 21 01:02 |
| oiaohm | Small business is the issue. | Jul 21 01:03 |
| Balrog_ | yes exactly | Jul 21 01:03 |
| oiaohm | when Linux hits that then MS will hurt. | Jul 21 01:03 |
| I manage several real gnu/linux www servers. | Jul 21 01:03 | |
| one of them's on my WAP | Jul 21 01:03 | |
| Balrog_ | large enterprise / education works well | Jul 21 01:03 |
| Balrog_ | I have one on my WAP too (well actually on a NAS hooked up to my WAP) | Jul 21 01:04 |
| What works for them can work for everyone. | Jul 21 01:04 | |
| It's just a matter of community support. | Jul 21 01:04 | |
| Balrog_ | twitter: then instead of complaining, make Webmin work really well | Jul 21 01:04 |
| and that's moving in the free software direction | Jul 21 01:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "I’m too much in love with my KDE setup right now." http://ping.fm/dSY8s | Jul 21 01:04 | |
| Balrog_ | it certainly could use improvement :) | Jul 21 01:04 |
| ***twitter ignores Barlog_ | Jul 21 01:04 | |
| Balrog_ | twitter: look, I do this stuff. | Jul 21 01:05 |
| Balrog_ | when you know terminal / cli / etc, it seems easy, but when you don't it's hard as *** | Jul 21 01:05 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: would you mind please theating twitter. | Jul 21 01:05 |
| oiaohm | I am personsally sick of twitter attuded someone don't agree just add them to ignore. | Jul 21 01:06 |
| schestowitz | twitter sees bad people in too many people IMHO | Jul 21 01:06 |
| schestowitz | Threshold low | Jul 21 01:06 |
| oiaohm | So twitter just is becoming a destraction to other wise valid chat. | Jul 21 01:06 |
| I don't have time to talk to people who tell me to "stop complaining and improve free software X because it sucks." | Jul 21 01:07 | |
| schestowitz | In Slashdot it's a mess, but here you know who's a regular and now a troll | Jul 21 01:07 |
| That's troll talk. | Jul 21 01:07 | |
| schestowitz | Depends. | Jul 21 01:07 |
| Balrog_ | you're trying to say that everyone should learn CLI and all ... well its not going to happen | Jul 21 01:08 |
| It was going in circles. Windows is best and easy. I did not come here to have that BS shoved in my face. | Jul 21 01:08 | |
| schestowitz | But he can ignore silently | Jul 21 01:08 |
| Windows is an inexcusable mess. | Jul 21 01:08 | |
| schestowitz | No need to announce dissing | Jul 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | I never said once it was best. | Jul 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | I said they had 1 thing wright. | Jul 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | right. | Jul 21 01:08 |
| oiaohm | That is getting them market. | Jul 21 01:09 |
| I need to announce it so that the target understands why I ignore. | Jul 21 01:09 | |
| schestowitz | cpanel is nice for hosting | Jul 21 01:09 |
| and so does everyone else . | Jul 21 01:09 | |
| schestowitz | But I no longer need it much | Jul 21 01:09 |
| Balrog_ | unfortunately, cpanel and the others suck at mail config, and certain other services :( ... I've played with webmin and it's not too good at that regard | Jul 21 01:09 |
| oiaohm | twitter: each market has a list of things that they depend on. | Jul 21 01:09 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: be aware that Linux people talking about Linux weakness gives ammo to Linux opposition | Jul 21 01:09 |
| schestowitz | Simple fact | Jul 21 01:09 |
| Balrog_ | I just ssh in and do it that way | Jul 21 01:09 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft presentation quotes that | Jul 21 01:09 |
| schestowitz | And its "TEs" too | Jul 21 01:09 |
| oiaohm | I am aware of it. | Jul 21 01:10 |
| schestowitz | I just use SSH and FISH:// | Jul 21 01:10 |
| oiaohm | There is also the issue that you put head in sand problem does not go away. | Jul 21 01:10 |
| schestowitz | I can edit files directly over FTP with graphical editors | Jul 21 01:10 |
| There's nothing wrong with talking about free software improvements. People like oiaohm don't do anything but that and most of it is bullshit. | Jul 21 01:10 | |
| konq does sftp excellently. | Jul 21 01:11 | |
| schestowitz | t does | Jul 21 01:11 |
| also calls and works with gui editors | Jul 21 01:11 | |
| schestowitz | multithreading in kon in FTP worked in KDE 3.1 | Jul 21 01:11 |
| oiaohm | twitter: you are bady wrong about that I don't do anything. | Jul 21 01:11 |
| schestowitz | But it had an issue with some server | Jul 21 01:11 |
| schestowitz | It also overlooaded them for thumbnails under some settings | Jul 21 01:12 |
| worked pretty well on Debian to Debian. | Jul 21 01:12 | |
| schestowitz | All resolved later. KDE 3.1 is OLD (2002 or 2003) | Jul 21 01:12 |
| oiaohm | Over the years I have put in many feature requests in gcc kde and gnome that have all been intergrated. | Jul 21 01:12 |
| KDE 4 has interesting previews for sftp file selection. | Jul 21 01:12 | |
| oiaohm | I try to get developers working on releated projects in the same room twitter. | Jul 21 01:12 |
| oiaohm | Where I can. | Jul 21 01:12 |
| might take a lot of traffic but is excellent on local networks. | Jul 21 01:13 | |
| oiaohm | I fall into the class of a enabler not a programmer most of the the time. | Jul 21 01:13 |
| oiaohm | And to enable things to happen you have to know where the problems are. | Jul 21 01:13 |
| it's only when you have to deal with inadequate commercial grade telco bandwith that free software has problems. | Jul 21 01:13 | |
| oiaohm | So you can talk to the right people and request it. | Jul 21 01:13 |
| *sebsebseb dislikes KDE 4 more than Microsoft, well except for those few apps he likes to run in Gnome as well | Jul 21 01:13 | |
| *sebsebseb Long live KDE 3! | Jul 21 01:14 | |
| Even so, KDE4 does thubnails well over crappy 60KB crimped network. | Jul 21 01:14 | |
| schestowitz | I did a lot of blogging about KDE power | Jul 21 01:14 |
| schestowitz | In 2004 and 2005 mostly | Jul 21 01:14 |
| schestowitz | It's still getting better | Jul 21 01:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Evidence in support of UK DNA database is "most unclear and badly presented piece of research" http://ping.fm/Yt3oK | Jul 21 01:14 | |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: no it's getting worse in a lot of ways now with KDE 4 as a GUI, but better with most of the apps :) | Jul 21 01:14 |
| Yes, both KDE 3 and 4 continue to improve. | Jul 21 01:15 | |
| schestowitz | KDE4 worked well for me | Jul 21 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Ask twitter a simple question do I always talk postive about MS. No I don't. | Jul 21 01:15 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: well KDE 3 is sadly on the verge of dieing :( | Jul 21 01:15 |
| schestowitz | I don't use it at home yet | Jul 21 01:15 |
| I don't think so. | Jul 21 01:15 | |
| oiaohm | There is no OS I talk postive about all the time. | Jul 21 01:15 |
| KDE 3 will only die when 4 is much better. | Jul 21 01:15 | |
| schestowitz | I will when I do a distro refresh. KDE4 just worked when I used it | Jul 21 01:15 |
| Debian still uses 3. | Jul 21 01:15 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: distros are already getting rid of KDE 3 and stuff | Jul 21 01:15 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: not dying, expiring due to evolution | Jul 21 01:16 |
| Ubuntu uses gnome. I'm not crying. | Jul 21 01:16 | |
| hell, Debian has Gnome as a default on install. | Jul 21 01:16 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: Ubuntu 9.04 uses a Gnome that does not follow upstream properly, as a result they have done something I really don't like | Jul 21 01:16 |
| I don't like a lot of things Ubuntu does. No big deal. | Jul 21 01:16 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: yeah when they remove a feature that has been there all along, untill a stupid change, it's not funny, when been using that feature, and when the only way to get it back, is to remove their change that really want as well | Jul 21 01:17 |
| just move to Debian and load your features yourself. | Jul 21 01:17 | |
| :) | Jul 21 01:17 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: I am talking about the removed shut down and logout from the system menu, because of Ubuntu's version of the fast user switch applet | Jul 21 01:17 |
| schestowitz | The abuse issues in BN appear to have ended today | Jul 21 01:17 |
| schestowitz | DDOS once in the afternoon, downtime half an hour | Jul 21 01:17 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: Debian is stability I heard, really I want later stuff first, but Fedora woudn't install on here :( | Jul 21 01:17 |
| schestowitz | I'll head to bed | Jul 21 01:18 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: gave me an error, said it was probably a bug and to report it | Jul 21 01:18 |
| gn | Jul 21 01:18 | |
| in the end, everyone creates their own distro. | Jul 21 01:18 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: not true | Jul 21 01:18 |
| oiaohm | That is also a problem. | Jul 21 01:18 |
| don't be sad that no one else has exactly what you want, be glad that you can make things exactly as you want. | Jul 21 01:18 | |
| your choice of software is .... a kind of distribution. | Jul 21 01:19 | |
| you could package it and share it if you wanted. | Jul 21 01:19 | |
| but it's something that works best for you | Jul 21 01:19 | |
| oiaohm | twitter calls me a troll but he is a extream side of coin. | Jul 21 01:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GOP Candidate: If We Lose Elections, We Still Have Guns http://ping.fm/TFnTR | Jul 21 01:19 | |
| oiaohm | I want a world where users don't have to go to creating there own distribution to get what they want. | Jul 21 01:20 |
| oiaohm | Really where user can customise like having there own distribution and not even notice. | Jul 21 01:20 |
| cubezzz | I've always liked fedora | Jul 21 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Linux Standard Base and Freedesktop are slowly providing the techs to allow distribution intergration. | Jul 21 01:21 |
| Balrog_ | ubuntu is getting better, but there still are problems especially on the server end :( ... well not for me, but some people I know have complained | Jul 21 01:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boston press keeps its door shut to readers.. http://ping.fm/NreYh | Jul 21 01:23 | |
| oiaohm | Focus has been slightly wrong. | Jul 21 01:23 |
| *fewa has quit (No route to host) | Jul 21 01:23 | |
| oiaohm | User base of open source drives its focus. | Jul 21 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Its been a failure to envolve small business and address there problems. | Jul 21 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Good part is being aware of it future can change. | Jul 21 01:24 |
| oiaohm | This is where lot of people who say Linux has lost have it wrong. They may get something wrong but you can always try to improve. | Jul 21 01:25 |
| Boston trolled out -> these forums are insidiously contributing to the devaluation of journalism, blurring the truth, confusing the issues, and diminishing serious discourse beyond even talk radio’s worst examples. | Jul 21 01:29 | |
| oiaohm | http://oswatershed.org/ This here also shows a big problem. Distribution design for shipping applications is harmful. | Jul 21 01:29 |
| Funny that I don't see these kinds of problems on Groklaw very often. | Jul 21 01:30 | |
| oiaohm | Reason why I would never be suggesting building more distributions. | Jul 21 01:30 |
| A well run forum is a beautiful thing. | Jul 21 01:30 | |
| oiaohm | Instead we need to design something that distributions don't exist. | Jul 21 01:30 |
| Boston.com needs to pay better attention and they have to realize that commercial interests are going to spam them with troll comments. | Jul 21 01:30 | |
| amarsh04 | sebsebseb, you can download a debian netinstall snapshot image, add testing and unstable to /etc/apt/sources.list and run debian unstable | Jul 21 01:31 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: I home they're looking at gentoo unstable | Jul 21 01:31 |
| sebsebseb | amarsh04: I want something cutting edge not to complex | Jul 21 01:31 |
| sebsebseb | amarsh04: and I haven't done netinstall for Ubuntu before | Jul 21 01:32 |
| unstable. fun to play with not for work unless your work is software development. | Jul 21 01:32 | |
| funny thing from Boston.com -> buy a legitimate newspaper | Jul 21 01:32 | |
| oiaohm | Software developers need to be able to release straight to end user. | Jul 21 01:32 |
| oiaohm | No mainatainer crap in middle. | Jul 21 01:33 |
| amarsh04 | sebsebseb, I was convinced of Debian's simplicity when I was able to upgrade glibc without rebooting | Jul 21 01:33 |
| I'm told they are cheap these days and that individual reporters have always been cheaper. | Jul 21 01:33 | |
| oiaohm | So reducing the numbers of people to blame for problems. | Jul 21 01:33 |
| Balrog_ | well with gentoo, the 'maintainer' writes patches to correct stuff | Jul 21 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Thoery. | Jul 21 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Fact is that the patches correct and break stuff. | Jul 21 01:34 |
| sebsebseb | amarsh04: I want to get rid of my Ubuntu install soon, if I knew where I could download the ISO for Debian, I mean I looked, but it was like where I get it from | Jul 21 01:34 |
| sebsebseb | amarsh04: yeah maybe I should give Debian a try as host OS for a while | Jul 21 01:34 |
| amarsh04 | I'll give you the URL in a moment, sebsebseb | Jul 21 01:34 |
| google debian install | Jul 21 01:35 | |
| sebsebseb | anyone used vectorlinux? | Jul 21 01:35 |
| oiaohm | It normally adds lower knowleged person about the source code to the application doing alterations. Balrog_ compared to the main distribution. | Jul 21 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Ie from the software developers. | Jul 21 01:35 |
| oiaohm | vectorlinux is not to bad. | Jul 21 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Basically slackware with a human usable package manager. | Jul 21 01:36 |
| oiaohm | One thing I do give slackware is you don't end up with package database problems. | Jul 21 01:37 |
| amarsh04 | http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ | Jul 21 01:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well thing is they have a paid for delux version now, which comes with Open Office and Gimp and such, and some sort of support | Jul 21 01:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: where as it seems the standard version won't have those programs by default | Jul 21 01:39 |
| amarsh04 | look under the heading "netinst (generally 135-175 MB) and businesscard (generally 20-50 MB) CD images" | Jul 21 01:39 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I been distro trying in vm's the last two weeks or so here and there, in fact I have been down the whole distrowatch.com list | Jul 21 01:39 |
| Balrog_ | I just use gentoo | Jul 21 01:39 |
| sebsebseb | a lot of non English distros, and distros that haven't been updated since 2007, 2008. or February :( | Jul 21 01:39 |
| Balrog_ | :( | Jul 21 01:39 |
| oiaohm | You can still install Openoffice sebsebseb | Jul 21 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Delux version is just a 2 disk version. | Jul 21 01:40 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah that's what I thought, but would have to compile myself | Jul 21 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Binaries are downloadable. | Jul 21 01:40 |
| oiaohm | There is the slackware repo behind vectorlinux. | Jul 21 01:40 |
| sebsebseb | when I tried their older vectorlinux live cd in Virtualbox, I was rather impressed with it | Jul 21 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Of course they need to make some money. | Jul 21 01:41 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: ok so it's not just some commercial distro after all? | Jul 21 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Providing a delux version for people with slow connections is a nice sneeky. | Jul 21 01:41 |
| amarsh04 | back later, ISP sent a replacement adsl modem/router to try | Jul 21 01:42 |
| sebsebseb | anyway at the moment I don't even need Open Office, or Gimp or whatever else it's missing in the standard version, but it's good to know that those programs can be installed in the standard version if I want them | Jul 21 01:42 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I am just after a good host at the moment | Jul 21 01:42 |
| sebsebseb | then I am going to have loads of virtual machines anyway :) | Jul 21 01:42 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I had issues getting installed more properly in Virtualbox, and then the already made VM was a stupid RAR file and then uh | Jul 21 01:43 |
| *sebsebseb hates RAR files | Jul 21 01:43 | |
| *Balrog_ hates rar files too :( | Jul 21 01:43 | |
| Balrog_ | at least there's unrar | Jul 21 01:43 |
| Balrog_ | though ace files are worse | Jul 21 01:43 |
| sebsebseb | Balrog_: yeah, but when I wanted that vectorlinux rar, I try to open then normalley with achrive manager, extract some files, and get weird files | Jul 21 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Update unrar sebsebseb | Jul 21 01:44 |
| Balrog_ | ew | Jul 21 01:44 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well it's seen as being bad, by people who know Linux distros, them not including OPen Oiffce and Gimp in the standard install, those two are so standard for Linux distros | Jul 21 01:44 |
| Balrog_ | remember that unrar is still not foss | Jul 21 01:44 |
| Balrog_ | though if you feel like making a foss version, there's some code here < http://code.google.com/p/theunarchiver/source/checkout > that may help | Jul 21 01:45 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: it was one from Ubuntu repo, I want to get rid of this try something else, I have been thinking Vector, maybe Debian, or just put that KDE 3 netbook remix CD's, I have my reaosns to do a clean install again | Jul 21 01:45 |
| oiaohm | xubuntu look at it some time. sebsebseb | Jul 21 01:45 |
| Balrog_ | it's right now for mac only, but it shouldn't be impossible to port :) | Jul 21 01:45 |
| oiaohm | It also missing openoffice. | Jul 21 01:45 |
| Balrog_ | just install ooo | Jul 21 01:46 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I have it's not for me, I have however these last two weeks been trying some XFCE distros in vm, and been rather impressed with them, thing is they were also old | Jul 21 01:46 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: sure, but it can be easilly installed | Jul 21 01:46 |
| sebsebseb | two weeks or so above, but exact dosn't matter for this one | Jul 21 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Some kde base distrutions only have koffice by defualt as well. | Jul 21 01:46 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-37-179.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 01:46 | |
| sebsebseb | KOffice I haven't given it a proper try ever, had it open a few times, and it seems pretty impressive | Jul 21 01:47 |
| oiaohm | The idea that anything has to be included by default is wrong. | Jul 21 01:47 |
| sebsebseb | also I quite like Abiword :) I love Abiword, and there's Gnumeric for spreadsheets as well | Jul 21 01:47 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.249.20.204) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 01:47 | |
| oiaohm | Only requirement to be a Linux distribution is a Linux kernel. | Jul 21 01:47 |
| _Hicham_ | and be oiaohm compliant | Jul 21 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | otherwise it will be denied the use of the linux trademark | Jul 21 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | that is how it goes | Jul 21 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | what about GNU/Linux ? | Jul 21 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | I mean, you could put the linux kernel with bsd userland, right? | Jul 21 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | you have to abide by schestowitz' rules | Jul 21 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | BSD userland? | Jul 21 01:48 |
| oiaohm | GNU describes the user land. | Jul 21 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no BSD userland I think | Jul 21 01:48 |
| oiaohm | android uses a BSD userland. | Jul 21 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | BSD is a kernel | Jul 21 01:49 |
| oiaohm | BSD is a kernel and a userland. | Jul 21 01:49 |
| oiaohm | Debian offers GNU on a freebsd kernel as a option. | Jul 21 01:49 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I am not exactly sure how to use anything else when it comes to installing stuff, to much time on Ubuntu it's dumbed me down, as in using apt-get and aptitude, so I wonder about installing slackware packages in vectorlinux | Jul 21 01:51 |
| oiaohm | vectorlinux has a package manager. | Jul 21 01:51 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: in fact the above is another reason why Debian hmm, maybe not, since that uses apt-get and aptitude as well | Jul 21 01:51 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: the vectorlinux I have been trying looked so nice :) | Jul 21 01:52 |
| oiaohm | slackware you can install parts just by extracting acrives. | Jul 21 01:52 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.3.160.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 01:52 | |
| oiaohm | http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/docs/vl58/manuals/vl5_slaptget_en.html | Jul 21 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Yes vector package manger has a nasty name | Jul 21 01:53 |
| aptitude is very powerful, works as well or better than rpm | Jul 21 01:53 | |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 21 01:53 | |
| what matters is the availability of repositories. Fedora, Debian and other free software distributions are everywhere, so you always are assured good package download times. | Jul 21 01:53 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: sure, but I been using apt-get and then the last year or so aptitude sometimes as well, since second release in Ubuntu in 2005, so yeah I want to try something differnet, and I would hardly ever compile anything from source in Ubuntu, so I am probably going to get issues still if I try that | Jul 21 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the apt-get port to slack | Jul 21 01:53 |
| I use apt-get | Jul 21 01:54 | |
| used to use dselect | Jul 21 01:54 | |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 01:54 | |
| sebsebseb | well portage is meant to be the best one, what archlinux uses | Jul 21 01:54 |
| I recommend synaptic for people who want an easy gui | Jul 21 01:54 | |
| sebsebseb | or did I maybe get mixed up with the Gentoo one hmm | Jul 21 01:54 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: same here, since that's what I am used to | Jul 21 01:55 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: ,but I recommend commands for people that know what they want to install, quicker and faster :) | Jul 21 01:55 |
| KDE's apt-io slave is fun | Jul 21 01:55 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: uh above, quicker and easier | Jul 21 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | portage is in gentoo | Jul 21 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | arch uses pacman | Jul 21 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm-get is the best package manager of all | Jul 21 01:56 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: yep I thought I had it mixed up, I meant pacman is the one that apparantly is the best | Jul 21 01:56 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ports_collection Interesting. You like a blood releation of the bsd tree sebsebseb | Jul 21 01:56 |
| sebsebseb | never heard of that package manager | Jul 21 01:56 |
| sometimes, being able to open the packages in multiple tabs of a browser is nice. Like when you are trying to figure out what package to use. It's especially handy to be able to open the project home page and compare packages in split planes | Jul 21 01:56 | |
| Konq just rocks. | Jul 21 01:57 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: uh what? | Jul 21 01:57 |
| oiaohm | portage is a releation of the bsd ports system sebsebseb | Jul 21 01:57 |
| once you know what you need to download, apt-get install does the rest. | Jul 21 01:57 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I have heard things from people, but I have only used apt-get and aptitude and RPM in Fedora Core 2 and 4, with no net hmm | Jul 21 01:58 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: drag and drop and install or however it went, it was easy | Jul 21 01:58 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah and compiled from source before | Jul 21 01:58 |
| sebsebseb | uh I keep on highling you :D well I am used to the big Ubuntu support channel | Jul 21 01:58 |
| _Hicham_ | compiling in ubuntu is easy | Jul 21 01:59 |
| sebsebseb | giving support there mainly rather than reciving, since I started doing that again last summer or whenever it was | Jul 21 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu wine maintainers drove me nuts for a while. | Jul 21 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | you should try fedora 11 | Jul 21 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu patches are nonsense | Jul 21 02:00 |
| oiaohm | Back porting patches leading to wine doing really strange things. | Jul 21 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I wanted to, but when I tried to install, I got an error and it told me it was a bug probably and to report it | Jul 21 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | that's when I tried to do the custom install so I could use the partitions I had | Jul 21 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | and yes I know Ubuntu do some pretty shitty stuff at times, when it comes to upstream | Jul 21 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | was it Fedora 11 final ? | Jul 21 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | 9.04 is profe of this, of course the newbies won't know, unless they are told | Jul 21 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | and yes Fedora 11 final from the DVD | Jul 21 02:00 |
| *HivenGlaven (n=teddy1@124.179.34.148) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 02:01 | |
| _Hicham_ | you could have done u r own partitioning scheme | Jul 21 02:01 |
| sebsebseb | I have partitions I need to keep for now | Jul 21 02:01 |
| sebsebseb | well vectorlinux will look way better than Fedora :) that's what I want, a desktop OS, that looks really nice by default :) | Jul 21 02:02 |
| sebsebseb | and also technically is pretty good, so Windows 7 or Vista or XP etc, are out of course | Jul 21 02:02 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 02:02 | |
| _Hicham_ | vectorlinux uses KDE by default i think | Jul 21 02:02 |
| sebsebseb | well even if it's KDE 4, I expect it will be a nice looking one | Jul 21 02:03 |
| sebsebseb | unlike most of the distros that use it | Jul 21 02:03 |
| Try Elive | Jul 21 02:03 | |
| _Hicham_ | openSUSE and Mandriva have the best KDE implementations | Jul 21 02:03 |
| mikankun | e17 is sexy | Jul 21 02:03 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: well you can't just download Elive, they want a donation | Jul 21 02:03 |
| It's hard to beat the beauty of Enlightenment | Jul 21 02:03 | |
| sebsebseb | anyway tried other stuf that used enlighment in vm | Jul 21 02:03 |
| sebsebseb | and it was kind of interesting | Jul 21 02:03 |
| sebsebseb | ,but i'll stick with Gnome and KDE 3 for now, and a little XFCE | Jul 21 02:04 |
| You can always download their "development version" | Jul 21 02:04 | |
| Or you used to be able to... | Jul 21 02:04 | |
| _Hicham_ | GNOME 2.26 is great | Jul 21 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Vector Linux fairly much gives you the windows manager how the developer project designed it. | Jul 21 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | hard to beat the beauty of enlightment, well maybe so, if it's set up properly by the distro or you | Jul 21 02:04 |
| oiaohm | They don't spend time altering things. | Jul 21 02:05 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: is latest vector KDE 4 or not? | Jul 21 02:05 |
| You can't have it both ways. | Jul 21 02:05 | |
| You either take stuff from upstream or you customize it. | Jul 21 02:05 | |
| oiaohm | 6 has KDE 4 | Jul 21 02:05 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : patches are necessary | Jul 21 02:05 |
| sebsebseb | there's a Gnome version as well? | Jul 21 02:05 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: to do what. | Jul 21 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Most of the distribution patches are not what you call necessary. | Jul 21 02:06 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : to integrate the s/w with the distro at least | Jul 21 02:06 |
| _Hicham_ | patches for integration | Jul 21 02:06 |
| Elive is probably worth the money. | Jul 21 02:06 | |
| _Hicham_ | are necessary | Jul 21 02:06 |
| oiaohm | KDE freedesktop standard following. | Jul 21 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Intergration does not require alterations to the main kde packages. | Jul 21 02:06 |
| there's also austrimudi | Jul 21 02:06 | |
| _Hicham_ | it depends | Jul 21 02:06 |
| oiaohm | You just add a package with the mine types and memu entries. | Jul 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | There is no depend about it. | Jul 21 02:07 |
| probably time to look at E17 distros again. | Jul 21 02:07 | |
| oiaohm | You only need to patch kde to alter its appearnce in some way. | Jul 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Or its operation. | Jul 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Not for intergration. | Jul 21 02:07 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not that evident to ship vanilla packages | Jul 21 02:07 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot of selection to tamper done by ubuntu that could be done cleaner. | Jul 21 02:08 |
| here's something nice http://distrowatch.com/kokoku/linuxcdorg.php?view_item.php?id_version=3816 | Jul 21 02:09 | |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is a bad case | Jul 21 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I am talking about Fedora patches | Jul 21 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | they are all adopted by upstream | Jul 21 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Fedora different case. | Jul 21 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Patch is normally on the way upstream and Fedora ships it out for user testing. | Jul 21 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Using a development distribution that should be expected. | Jul 21 02:10 |
| http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=Debian&desktop=Enlightenment&architecture=All&status=Active | Jul 21 02:11 | |
| oiaohm | Fedora does avoid lot of the theming alterations and the like other distributions patch into packages where items like KDE provide a theming path away from vanilla packages. | Jul 21 02:12 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: heh I got one guy that reall thinks Vector won't do what I want | Jul 21 02:12 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: maybe it won't quite, but it's worth giving it a proper try as host OS for a bit I think | Jul 21 02:13 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : Wolvix is lighter | Jul 21 02:13 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: what's that? | Jul 21 02:13 |
| _Hicham_ | a slackware based distro | Jul 21 02:13 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: and I have 1GB RAM, so I don't exactlly need light waight | Jul 21 02:13 |
| _Hicham_ | 1GB is not too much | Jul 21 02:13 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: yeah it's a bit sucky if I want to run two vm's at once, but I can make do with just one | Jul 21 02:13 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : what distro r u using right now? | Jul 21 02:14 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I don't like XFCE that much, well I have tried some other distros in vm where it looks a lot nicer than Xubuntu | Jul 21 02:15 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: Ubuntu 9.04 at the moment | Jul 21 02:15 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Jul 21 02:16 | |
| _Hicham_ | great choice | Jul 21 02:16 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: not quite, but it's been working well for me with Ext4 :) | Jul 21 02:17 |
| sebsebseb | Ext4 isn't seen as 100% stable in 9.04 | Jul 21 02:17 |
| _Hicham_ | it is for me, at least | Jul 21 02:17 |
| _Hicham_ | never had a problem with it | Jul 21 02:17 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: which distro are you on? | Jul 21 02:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 11 | Jul 21 02:17 |
| sebsebseb | ah right yeah, but that's Fedora 11 | Jul 21 02:18 |
| sebsebseb | they have the later kernel and Ext4 by default | Jul 21 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | I have kernel 2.6.29 | Jul 21 02:18 |
| sebsebseb | 9.10 and Ext4 is default | Jul 21 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | 2.6.29.6-213.fc11.i586 | Jul 21 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the default too in fedora | Jul 21 02:19 |
| sebsebseb | 2.6.28-13-generic and this upgrade kernel wasn't that long ago, it was 2.6.28 something else before | Jul 21 02:19 |
| sebsebseb | update above, altough with upgrade still makes really | Jul 21 02:19 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: they have done some bad things here and there to 9.04 the Gnome side of it anyway | Jul 21 02:20 |
| _Hicham_ | what bad things sebsebseb? | Jul 21 02:21 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: you know fusa yeah? the log outer? right? | Jul 21 02:21 |
| sebsebseb | fast user switch applet | Jul 21 02:21 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Jul 21 02:21 |
| _Hicham_ | I love it | Jul 21 02:21 |
| sebsebseb | well in Ubuntu... | Jul 21 02:22 |
| sebsebseb | what they have done is also made it show Pidgin login/logout status | Jul 21 02:22 |
| sebsebseb | and you can do your away and such for Pidgin with it | Jul 21 02:22 |
| _Hicham_ | is that bad ? | Jul 21 02:22 |
| sebsebseb | so when pidgin is not on it shows a red shutdown icon, and when pidgin is on the green online icon | Jul 21 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | what's bad is | Jul 21 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | as a result of it, they have removed shut down and logout from the system menu | Jul 21 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | and the only way to get it back, is to remove fusa, so if want both, problems | Jul 21 02:23 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Jul 21 02:23 |
| _Hicham_ | very nasty | Jul 21 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | your being sarcastic or? | Jul 21 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | they make shut down into some noob thing now, shut down isn't so special that it deserves it's own icon and all that | Jul 21 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | i am not sarcastic | Jul 21 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | I wouldn't have liked that change | Jul 21 02:24 |
| sebsebseb | then notify-osd at least one person thinks is bad, the black update notifications and banshee changing a song and such | Jul 21 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | sincerely | Jul 21 02:24 |
| sebsebseb | indeed I have used that feature | Jul 21 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | ever since I used Gnome in 2004 | Jul 21 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | since 2004, since Fedora Core 2 | Jul 21 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | do u use banshee ? | Jul 21 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | and then they do that stuff :( | Jul 21 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | I know, I know it's Mono, but I like Banshee :) | Jul 21 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | Rythombox used to be ok, but not that great, and Banshee would be rubbish at the time, but then Banshee became better than Rythombox | Jul 21 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | did u try exaile ? | Jul 21 02:26 |
| sebsebseb | not sure if I did | Jul 21 02:26 |
| _Hicham_ | try exaile and u will never think of banshee again | Jul 21 02:26 |
| sebsebseb | maybe one day i'll do that commandline music player | Jul 21 02:26 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: moc does work nice | Jul 21 02:26 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: the shell program I am thinking of? | Jul 21 02:27 |
| ThistleWeb | I dont see much difference between banshee, exaile, rythmbox and amarok | Jul 21 02:27 |
| ThistleWeb | yes, music on command | Jul 21 02:27 |
| *sebsebseb never understood what the big deal was/is with Amarok | Jul 21 02:27 | |
| ThistleWeb | terminal music player | Jul 21 02:27 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : exaile is a command line player ? | Jul 21 02:27 |
| ThistleWeb | no | Jul 21 02:27 |
| ThistleWeb | moc is | Jul 21 02:27 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: exile can do last.fm? | Jul 21 02:28 |
| ThistleWeb | exaile, rythmbox, amarok and banshee are all in the same genre of music managers | Jul 21 02:28 |
| sebsebseb | well most of these palyers can | Jul 21 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : of course | Jul 21 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | all players do last.fm | Jul 21 02:28 |
| ThistleWeb | I prefer a simple player like Audacious | Jul 21 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | me too | Jul 21 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | I love audacious | Jul 21 02:28 |
| ThistleWeb | all I want is a system tray icon I can minimise, with multimedia buttons for pause etc | Jul 21 02:29 |
| ThistleWeb | keeps it in the background with easy controls and only takes up a lil 25x25 icon space | Jul 21 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | it is my beloved player | Jul 21 02:29 |
| sebsebseb | My favourite player is Windows Media Player! | Jul 21 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : really? | Jul 21 02:30 |
| I think amarok has what you want | Jul 21 02:30 | |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: yep | Jul 21 02:30 |
| _Hicham_ | what does make it so special ? | Jul 21 02:30 |
| sebsebseb | heh | Jul 21 02:30 |
| sebsebseb | I was jokeing :) | Jul 21 02:30 |
| sebsebseb is big joker | Jul 21 02:30 | |
| ThistleWeb | different peeps want different things from their software | Jul 21 02:30 |
| amarok has scripts and plugins | Jul 21 02:30 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: I might joke sometimes yeah | Jul 21 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | I am against banshee and its mono stack | Jul 21 02:31 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, how can shutdown be seen as some noob thing, I mean everyone needs to do it at some point no matter what your preferred way of doing it is right ? ;) | Jul 21 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Amarok has a shop selling music behind it as well as some great scripts. | Jul 21 02:31 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: I meant the way they have a special icon for it | Jul 21 02:31 |
| neighborlee | ? | Jul 21 02:31 |
| oiaohm | I will be truthful I don't like using it all the time. | Jul 21 02:31 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: in Ubuntu 9.04 | Jul 21 02:31 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, fasik there has always been a shutdown icon in ubuntu | Jul 21 02:31 |
| neighborlee | faik ^ | Jul 21 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm never uses X server | Jul 21 02:31 |
| oiaohm | I do use X server _Hicham_ | Jul 21 02:32 |
| neighborlee | hm | Jul 21 02:32 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: special icon or applet if you like, that also does those other things I mentioned | Jul 21 02:32 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: read above scroll up again, you missed stuff I said obviosuly | Jul 21 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Would not be here without it _Hicham_ | Jul 21 02:32 |
| neighborlee | no I saw it..it made no sense though in conjunction WITH pidgin | Jul 21 02:32 |
| neighborlee | googling | Jul 21 02:32 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: which OS are you on? | Jul 21 02:32 |
| neighborlee | windows | Jul 21 02:33 |
| sebsebseb | exactly Pidgin status being linked to a shutdown/logout/restart applet, now that's not really a great thing | Jul 21 02:33 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 02:33 | |
| ThistleWeb | this is another part of why I dont get peeps pushing banshee, it's comparable in terms of features and functions with rythmbox and exaile (gtk) and amarok (qt).....well, 1,4 anyway | Jul 21 02:33 |
| sebsebseb | espesailly when the original applet is only for changing users | Jul 21 02:33 |
| ThistleWeb | so there's no real benefit to having banshee | Jul 21 02:34 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, It's sadly , rather obvious | Jul 21 02:34 |
| neighborlee | :) | Jul 21 02:34 |
| ThistleWeb | it don't bring anything unique to the table | Jul 21 02:34 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: Windows why? | Jul 21 02:34 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, except mono dependency ;) | Jul 21 02:34 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, why not | Jul 21 02:34 |
| ThistleWeb | well, there is that lol | Jul 21 02:34 |
| neighborlee | :) | Jul 21 02:34 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: ,because it's basically a joke to be using Windows as a Linux user, unless you have a proper valid reason :) or are new to Linux | Jul 21 02:35 |
| neighborlee | oh so you mean you'd rather have it on the menu, not panel | Jul 21 02:35 |
| ThistleWeb | sadly, many linux users have to suffer windows at work or school | Jul 21 02:35 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: now your getting there | Jul 21 02:35 |
| neighborlee | kk | Jul 21 02:35 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: however it's still meant to be in the system menu | Jul 21 02:36 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: and the applet is only meant to be for changing users | Jul 21 02:36 |
| neighborlee | heh | Jul 21 02:36 |
| sebsebseb | ,but with Ubuntu 9.04 they didn't follow upstream Gnome when it came to this | Jul 21 02:36 |
| neighborlee | each own | Jul 21 02:36 |
| neighborlee | as in to ^ | Jul 21 02:36 |
| neighborlee | I kinda like panel myself..faster- | Jul 21 02:36 |
| neighborlee | similar to winders | Jul 21 02:36 |
| *neighborlee runs | Jul 21 02:36 | |
| neighborlee | fast | Jul 21 02:37 |
| neighborlee | -er | Jul 21 02:37 |
| neighborlee | :) | Jul 21 02:37 |
| sebsebseb | meant to have both and done properly, but sadly Ubuntu 9.04 did this silly stuff, well apparantly some profesional designers even came up with the idea | Jul 21 02:37 |
| sebsebseb | one guy left Ubuntu, because of this, and a few other reasons | Jul 21 02:37 |
| sebsebseb | he switched to Gentoo on one computer, and Debian on the other | Jul 21 02:37 |
| neighborlee | ubuntu does many ODD things..so meh | Jul 21 02:37 |
| oiaohm | History of the most popular distribution doing odd things goes back a long way. | Jul 21 02:38 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: have you used it? it seems your some Windows users, that is in here for some reason, that knows something about Linux, or you use Linux as well, but not on your desktop? | Jul 21 02:38 |
| oiaohm | Mandriva before ubuntu I remember its strangness. | Jul 21 02:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: not quite, if you mean Ubuntu, because first release was in 2004 | Jul 21 02:38 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, many times yup | Jul 21 02:39 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, its been a while o_0 | Jul 21 02:39 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, yeah mandriva indeed...I used to really adore urpmf | Jul 21 02:39 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: are you a Windows fan boy in desguise kind of? :D | Jul 21 02:39 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, and MCC especially | Jul 21 02:39 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, that depends I guess on the topic :) | Jul 21 02:39 |
| oiaohm | History kinda says you become the most popular linux destribution you maintainers will go nuts. | Jul 21 02:40 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, if you are asking am I a linux or windows apologist..the answer is a firm and resounding zero/no | Jul 21 02:40 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, lol | Jul 21 02:40 |
| ThistleWeb | when you absolutly, positivly need that virus to run properly, you can't beat Windows | Jul 21 02:40 |
| neighborlee | lool | Jul 21 02:40 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, how true :)) | Jul 21 02:40 |
| oiaohm | Wine is not far behind these days. | Jul 21 02:41 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Wine is getting there and so is virtulazation for 3D games | Jul 21 02:41 |
| ThistleWeb | linux will never be ready for the desktop until they reach that malware compatibility level that the gold standard has set | Jul 21 02:41 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, unless its vista..their new control thing is a NIGHTmare...even windows users can't stand it though arguably it makes things safer ?<no idea,,I dont get infected as I operate safely,,err as safe as windows GETS> | Jul 21 02:41 |
| sebsebseb | Windows 7 on October 22nd | Jul 21 02:42 |
| sebsebseb | enough fools will upgrade | Jul 21 02:42 |
| sebsebseb | and IE6 will hopefuly die at last :) | Jul 21 02:42 |
| neighborlee | lol | Jul 21 02:42 |
| neighborlee | talk about internet suicide o_0 | Jul 21 02:42 |
| ThistleWeb | plenty of peeps see the stock market as an indicator or quality products / services | Jul 21 02:42 |
| neighborlee | even my friends who use vista religiously...dont use IE ;)) | Jul 21 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | my folks would willingly get the new windows because "it must be the best" | Jul 21 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | despite me trying to educate them | Jul 21 02:43 |
| neighborlee | hmmm :) | Jul 21 02:43 |
| neighborlee | loyal fan base ? ;) | Jul 21 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | non-tech users | Jul 21 02:43 |
| neighborlee | yup | Jul 21 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | who believe MS got where they are BECAUSE they are the best | Jul 21 02:43 |
| oiaohm | Vista is fun. | Jul 21 02:44 |
| neighborlee | M$ is counting on it | Jul 21 02:44 |
| ThistleWeb | that if others were better, the positions would be reversed | Jul 21 02:44 |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, heh,,and very frustrating | Jul 21 02:44 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: people that don't know enough about computers, that's who | Jul 21 02:44 |
| oiaohm | winsock crashes computer takes forever to start. | Jul 21 02:44 |
| oiaohm | And event log does not log anything. | Jul 21 02:44 |
| oiaohm | Yep also webbrowsers are paper weights. | Jul 21 02:44 |
| ThistleWeb | my response? "no probs, but don't call me for support" | Jul 21 02:44 |
| sebsebseb | Vista has been ok on this computer, of course I have hardly used it also :) | Jul 21 02:44 |
| sebsebseb | in fact last time I booted it, was some time last year, as far as I know | Jul 21 02:45 |
| sebsebseb | if I remember correctly, such a long time ago | Jul 21 02:45 |
| oiaohm | With winsock crashed Vista takes about 15 mins to login. | Jul 21 02:45 |
| ThistleWeb | I hang my winsock out for Santa each year but all I get is mothballs | Jul 21 02:45 |
| oiaohm | Linux can be stuffed up but at least it does not keep you waiting. | Jul 21 02:46 |
| *edbian (n=ed@64.53.218.56) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 02:46 | |
| edbian | Is this channel devoted to boycotting the Suse Linux mother Novell?? | Jul 21 02:46 |
| oiaohm | This is not only anti Novell. | Jul 21 02:47 |
| ThistleWeb | novel is the adopted mother of Suse | Jul 21 02:47 |
| neighborlee | lol | Jul 21 02:47 |
| oiaohm | Its anti genernal company bad threatment of end users. | Jul 21 02:47 |
| ThistleWeb | it already existed before Novell bought it | Jul 21 02:47 |
| edbian | IC IC | Jul 21 02:48 |
| edbian | So what has Novell done that is so "bad" ?? | Jul 21 02:48 |
| ThistleWeb | edbian: did you read the "about BN" on the site | Jul 21 02:49 |
| ThistleWeb | it explains why the site started and what it's about | Jul 21 02:49 |
| sebsebseb | someone edited Vista and got it to boot in like 20 seconds, took a lot of junk out and stuff, put on another window manager | Jul 21 02:49 |
| edbian | Give me a link to the site and I will :) | Jul 21 02:49 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, heh | Jul 21 02:49 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: no joke I am serious | Jul 21 02:50 |
| ThistleWeb | it's boycottnovell.com I think | Jul 21 02:50 |
| ThistleWeb | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page <<read the introduction | Jul 21 02:52 |
| sebsebseb | hmm edbian sort of ruined the descussion or was it finnished? | Jul 21 02:54 |
| ThistleWeb | do they make stripey winsocks? | Jul 21 02:55 |
| edbian | I am reading the site | Jul 21 02:55 |
| edbian | :) | Jul 21 02:55 |
| edbian | They are evil! :0 | Jul 21 02:55 |
| neighborlee | edbian, your rug bunnies ? | Jul 21 02:55 |
| neighborlee | more cute actually than dangerous o_0 | Jul 21 02:55 |
| neighborlee | but hey | Jul 21 02:55 |
| edbian | Never heard that expression before. | Jul 21 02:56 |
| edbian | What is more cute than dangerous? My smiley? | Jul 21 02:56 |
| ThistleWeb | edbian: Roy does a good job of dissecting stuff, then posting the full unedited version for you to compare, or check it's not out of context etc, as well as posting links to where he finds stuff | Jul 21 02:56 |
| edbian | neighborlee: = Roy? | Jul 21 02:57 |
| ThistleWeb | he's basicly saying "this is what's going on, please feel free to investigate on your own" | Jul 21 02:57 |
| ThistleWeb | no roy = schestowitz | Jul 21 02:57 |
| ThistleWeb | Mr BN | Jul 21 02:57 |
| sebsebseb | edbian: neighborlee seems to be someone that likes Windows | Jul 21 02:57 |
| ThistleWeb | windows are handy, they let the light in | Jul 21 02:58 |
| ThistleWeb | careful when walking about in the buff though ;) | Jul 21 02:58 |
| ThistleWeb | edbian: there's a whole world of info on BN that companies like MS try to ensure stays unreported by the mainstream media | Jul 21 02:59 |
| ThistleWeb | if you're new to it all, it can be like Alice's rabbit hole | Jul 21 02:59 |
| ThistleWeb | MS are very prolific in their crime spree | Jul 21 03:00 |
| edbian | ThistleWeb: Big Brother stuff huh | Jul 21 03:00 |
| edbian | lol | Jul 21 03:00 |
| edbian | I don't think I've ever hear the phrase "very prolific in their crime spree" before :) | Jul 21 03:00 |
| ThistleWeb | MS are very inovative, but not in areas they can boast about to the public | Jul 21 03:01 |
| ThistleWeb | bribery, threats, astroturfing | Jul 21 03:01 |
| ThistleWeb | it sometimes baffles you as to how they get away with as much as they do | Jul 21 03:02 |
| ThistleWeb | but then, organised crime pays | Jul 21 03:02 |
| ThistleWeb | make sure the bullies and bribes get to their targets on time | Jul 21 03:03 |
| oiaohm | edbian: BN holds lots of information about court cases MS has lost documenting how they do business. | Jul 21 03:04 |
| oiaohm | MS idea of doing business is not always legal. | Jul 21 03:05 |
| ThistleWeb | groklaw is another similar site at preserving a legal history of various court actions | Jul 21 03:09 |
| ThistleWeb | about MS, SCO etc | Jul 21 03:09 |
| oiaohm | The blog side is schestowitz having some fun. Documenting and logging is not the most fun job. | Jul 21 03:10 |
| ThistleWeb | yep | Jul 21 03:11 |
| *edbian (n=ed@64.53.218.56) has left #boycottnovell ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 21 03:14 | |
| tessier | schestowitz: Sorry, got distracted by work earlier. How is everything? | Jul 21 03:17 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, mostly necessity | Jul 21 03:18 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: why? | Jul 21 03:18 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, beyond that, d efinitely not so much..I admire and prefer oss b ecause its the great equalizer | Jul 21 03:18 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, business needs | Jul 21 03:18 |
| sebsebseb | tessier: he is sleeping I think | Jul 21 03:19 |
| neighborlee | sebsebseb, which im hard at work trying to circumvent ;( | Jul 21 03:19 |
| sebsebseb | neighborlee: not just business, all computer users | Jul 21 03:19 |
| neighborlee | I mean me specifically | Jul 21 03:19 |
| tessier | sebsebseb: Yes, I figured such. | Jul 21 03:27 |
| *wayne (n=teddy1@124.187.182.203) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 03:34 | |
| *HivenGlaven has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 03:45 | |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Jul 21 03:45 | |
| *twitter (n=willhill@97-113-221-139.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 04:16 | |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 21 04:22 | |
| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 04:47 | |
| *wayne has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 04:51 | |
| *dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 21 05:38 | |
| Come into my web, said the spider to the fly http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090720134402246 | Jul 21 05:38 | |
| *scelbybyteprimer (n=teddy1@58.168.118.208) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 05:39 | |
| Linux on top of Windows. FAT chance that's going to work right. | Jul 21 05:39 | |
| spyware in your blackberry straight from the phone company. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/blackberry-spies/ | Jul 21 05:47 | |
| RMS opines, " A cell phone company installed spyware in its subscribers' blackberry computers. The users found out only because of a fortunate bug that caused visible annoying symptoms. The phone company was able to do this because the software in the blackberry is proprietary, thus not under the users' control. The user's only known defense against these malicious features is to reject proprietary software and insist on free s | Jul 21 05:48 | |
| You can also point to Navistar and cell phone tapping by the US Federal government. If it has a microphone a computer and is hooked to a network, make sure it's got free software. | Jul 21 05:49 | |
| This is also true for Tivoised GNU/Linux phones. | Jul 21 05:50 | |
| who's going to know what's really going on in a phone if you can't compile it yourself and run it. | Jul 21 05:51 | |
| non free software on top of GNU/Linux is just as untrustworthy as non free software elsewhere. | Jul 21 05:52 | |
| every reign of terror has to have assassins http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/report_cia_assassin_program_could_operate_anywhere.php | Jul 21 05:53 | |
| RMS compares the program to one in Russia. He also notes that the CIA goon squad could kill people in the US as easily as anywhere else. | Jul 21 05:55 | |
| neighborlee | LOL silverlight needed to view video of this 'cooperation' ;)) | Jul 21 06:10 |
| neighborlee | gotta love it | Jul 21 06:10 |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 06:22 | |
| Omar87 | LOL | Jul 21 07:16 |
| *iKonaK (n=iKonaK@78.96.169.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 07:16 | |
| Omar87 | Microsoft are still determined to shove their junk down our throats. | Jul 21 07:16 |
| Omar87 | Too bad there are troll out there who clap whistle for this filthy propaganda. | Jul 21 07:16 |
| *iKonaK has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 07:16 | |
| Omar87 | who clap *and* whistle.. | Jul 21 07:16 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip68-230-37-218.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 07:19 | |
| *wallclimber has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 07:21 | |
| tessier | Wow. SCO's goose is cooked. | Jul 21 07:21 |
| tessier | Go Go Groklaw Buttrape! | Jul 21 07:21 |
| tessier | An Oracle developer is adding transcendent memory (tmem) to the Linux kernel...interesting. | Jul 21 07:26 |
| tessier | Oracle is doing some fairly good things for Linux. | Jul 21 07:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Launchpad now Open Source under GNU AGPL 3 https://dev.launchpad.net/ | Jul 21 07:33 | |
| tessier | oiaohm: Weren't you telling me about tmem the other day? I'm just reading about it on linux-kernel...neat stuff. | Jul 21 07:37 |
| schestowitz | Hey, tessier | Jul 21 07:38 |
| schestowitz | SOmething in server settings seems to prevent automatic upgrade in WordPress. I did some research on it. | Jul 21 07:38 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure if PHP5 is installed. Some say it mind help. | Jul 21 07:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] MSFT contributes kernel code to run virtualized Linux client on top of Win 2k8 host. So ass-backwards... http://tinyurl.com/kqaga7 | Jul 21 07:40 | |
| schestowitz | tessier: basically, what the WordPress software attempts to do is to pass in a file via FTP to localhost, but it fails. | Jul 21 07:40 |
| schestowitz | Identical issues are described here: http://wordpress.org/support/topic/225836 | Jul 21 07:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Canonical previously said they'd not open source the whole of launchpad but changed their mind, and have. http://blog.canonical.com/?p=192 | Jul 21 07:41 | |
| schestowitz | See Otto's replies | Jul 21 07:41 |
| *tessier checks the php version | Jul 21 07:43 | |
| tessier | Yep, it's php 5.1.6 | Jul 21 07:43 |
| tessier | schestowitz: The server is not running any sort of ftp. I don't understand where ftp would fit into upgrading wordpress. | Jul 21 07:45 |
| schestowitz | tessier: basically, WordPress upgrads itself when needed | Jul 21 07:46 |
| schestowitz | It fetches in files via FTP to install plugins too | Jul 21 07:47 |
| schestowitz | It works on another host | Jul 21 07:47 |
| tessier | It FTP's out and brings the files down? | Jul 21 07:47 |
| schestowitz | maybe it can be temporarily allowed? | Jul 21 07:47 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes | Jul 21 07:47 |
| tessier | Or does the server need to run an ftp server itself for something to ftp into? | Jul 21 07:47 |
| schestowitz | Then it does all the rest like uncompressing, upgrading, installing, etc. | Jul 21 07:47 |
| tessier | There should be nothing stopping wordpress from ftp'ing files from another server | Jul 21 07:47 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't the server already run just SSH/SCP? | Jul 21 07:48 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I see... | Jul 21 07:48 |
| schestowitz | I'm always just using fish:// (SCP) | Jul 21 07:48 |
| schestowitz | it basically works like that | Jul 21 07:49 |
| schestowitz | There are two options | Jul 21 07:49 |
| schestowitz | One of SFTP and one FTP | Jul 21 07:49 |
| schestowitz | And WordPress needs login credentials of the localhost | Jul 21 07:49 |
| schestowitz | I.e. same as used for SCP | Jul 21 07:49 |
| tessier | Yes, the server already rnus ssh/scp/sftp | Jul 21 07:49 |
| tessier | You can give it your boycottn credentials | Jul 21 07:50 |
| schestowitz | THat's what I tried, but it gave the error shown in the WordPress forums (as above) | Jul 21 07:50 |
| schestowitz | It seems not to connect | Jul 21 07:50 |
| tessier | I still don't understand how ftp is being used here. | Jul 21 07:55 |
| tessier | Are you running an ftp client and trying to connect to the server? | Jul 21 07:55 |
| schestowitz | I reckon maybe the connection is made from the outside | Jul 21 07:57 |
| schestowitz | tessier: WordPress connects. | Jul 21 07:57 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe it calls for a connection to be made to localhost and pass the gunzipped software | Jul 21 07:57 |
| tessier | WordPress the company? | Jul 21 07:58 |
| tessier | As in they upload updates to you? | Jul 21 07:58 |
| schestowitz | I've just tried from Konqueror and could connect via SFTP | Jul 21 07:58 |
| schestowitz | tessier: yes | Jul 21 07:58 |
| schestowitz | for the software (WordPress) to install the patch | Jul 21 07:59 |
| tessier | http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wordpress-automatic-upgrade/ | Jul 21 07:59 |
| tessier | From that description it sounds like wordpress itself goes out and downloads the software | Jul 21 07:59 |
| tessier | Connects to the ftp server at wordpress.org | Jul 21 07:59 |
| tessier | So we don't need to run our own ftp server... | Jul 21 08:00 |
| schestowitz | I wonder why it requires that I give it login cedentials for the local account on the server | Jul 21 08:00 |
| tessier | No idea. | Jul 21 08:01 |
| tessier | I need to get some sleep. I can help you out with this some more tomorrow. Sounds like I need to do some more reading on this automatic upgrade thing. | Jul 21 08:01 |
| schestowitz | THanks a lot. | Jul 21 08:02 |
| schestowitz | Good night | Jul 21 08:02 |
| schestowitz | It would ease all future upgrades | Jul 21 08:02 |
| tessier | night! | Jul 21 08:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] http://lunduke.com/?p=725 _Really_ didn't need to see that in my news reader at breakfast time. Good points made though. :( | Jul 21 08:13 | |
| *Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.") | Jul 21 08:19 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.6.71) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 08:41 | |
| *wizz_ (n=wizz@203.106.61.244) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 09:24 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The days of publishing anything in print may be numbered. http://ping.fm/IQ2WQ | Jul 21 09:25 | |
| schestowitz | The latest sort of talking point out there seems to be that SUgar -- not abuse from companies like Intel and Microsoft -- harmed OLPC | Jul 21 09:26 |
| schestowitz | "They didn't just lose focus, they lost a lot of goodwill by working with MS. " http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/07/20/1628228/Negroponte-Sees-Sugar-As-OLPCs-Biggest-Mistake | Jul 21 09:28 |
| Ng | world sees negroponte as OLPC's biggest mistake? ;) | Jul 21 09:34 |
| Ng | the guy seems to have done a lot of harm to his own project ;( | Jul 21 09:34 |
| schestowitz | He spoke to Gates back around 2006 ot 07 | Jul 21 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Gave him some memory sticks in 2007 AFAIK | Jul 21 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Turned people off | Jul 21 09:35 |
| tacone | uh | Jul 21 09:38 |
| tacone | lunduke.com/org/whatever has a good post on rms | Jul 21 09:39 |
| schestowitz | He hates him | Jul 21 09:39 |
| tacone | well... not really good. yet another attack. | Jul 21 09:39 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Jul 21 09:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes another. No surprise there | Jul 21 09:39 |
| tacone | shameful post. worth reading | Jul 21 09:39 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/05/linux-sucks-fud/ | Jul 21 09:40 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/truth-about-linux-action-show/ | Jul 21 09:40 |
| schestowitz | tacone: I'd rather read something not from those who want Linux to become a proprietary sort of platform. | Jul 21 09:40 |
| tacone | i wonder why those people use linux | Jul 21 09:41 |
| tacone | do they, at least ? | Jul 21 09:41 |
| *pk (n=pk@cpc3-broo3-0-0-cust242.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 09:41 | |
| schestowitz | Heh. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-07-20-017-35-OS-CY-0000 | Jul 21 09:43 |
| schestowitz | tacone: they use it cause they like it | Jul 21 09:43 |
| schestowitz | But I wish they understood what's behind it | Jul 21 09:43 |
| schestowitz | They are like the open source type... make money, don't think about freedom | Jul 21 09:43 |
| *wizz_ has quit (Connection timed out) | Jul 21 09:45 | |
| schestowitz | Symbian signed malware - does signing matter? < http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/07/symbian-signed-malware-proof-t.html > | Jul 21 09:52 |
| *_Goblin (n=root@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 09:56 | |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: did you see the Wilcox article? | Jul 21 09:59 |
| *wizz (n=wizz@203.106.61.244) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 10:00 | |
| _Goblin | the one where he closed his blog? | Jul 21 10:04 |
| schestowitz | No. | Jul 21 10:04 |
| schestowitz | He writes for BetaNews now | Jul 21 10:04 |
| _Goblin | yeah I have the RSS....havent read it yet.. | Jul 21 10:05 |
| _Goblin | any good? | Jul 21 10:05 |
| schestowitz | No. | Jul 21 10:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Microsoft-should-use-Twitter-data-theft-as-hosted-apps-marketing-FUD/1247765763 | Jul 21 10:05 |
| schestowitz | FUD advice to his friends at Redmond | Jul 21 10:05 |
| schestowitz | I'm telling you, Wilcox is not your friend | Jul 21 10:05 |
| _Goblin | Ill give it a look...Ive been busy with COLA this morning.... | Jul 21 10:05 |
| schestowitz | Look at his work as an 'analyst' | Jul 21 10:05 |
| _Goblin | and in regards to Wilcox....... | Jul 21 10:05 |
| _Goblin | I agree with you.... | Jul 21 10:06 |
| _Goblin | I did say some time ago I was wrong about him..... | Jul 21 10:06 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: re COLA, don't feed that trolls | Jul 21 10:06 |
| _Goblin | no i dont. | Jul 21 10:06 |
| schestowitz | THat's what they want. Pay them no attention or filter them like many of us do | Jul 21 10:06 |
| _Goblin | I am going to be highlighting one for an article...Ive collected some interesting info on him.... | Jul 21 10:07 |
| _Goblin | "Moshe Goldfarb" | Jul 21 10:07 |
| schestowitz | Someone sent me pages of his writings in Jupiter Research.. from acrhive.org (pages no longer there, apparently) | Jul 21 10:07 |
| schestowitz | A Microsoft-focused person needs Microsoft to succeed, for his/her livelihood | Jul 21 10:08 |
| _Goblin | I am using him as an example to those who dont use the NG's.... | Jul 21 10:08 |
| schestowitz | There is no "Moshe" | Jul 21 10:08 |
| schestowitz | It's one among hundreds of nyms | Jul 21 10:08 |
| _Goblin | yep....but I have an ace up my sleeve which is not shown on COLA. | Jul 21 10:08 |
| schestowitz | That name is actually one of a holocuast surviver that Gary M Stewart defames | Jul 21 10:08 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: the trolls are there to derail dicussion | Jul 21 10:09 |
| _Goblin | yep. | Jul 21 10:09 |
| schestowitz | To change topic when distraction is needed | Jul 21 10:09 |
| schestowitz | Best way to fight them: ignore, stay on topic | Jul 21 10:09 |
| _Goblin | I dont think they will derail this one though. | Jul 21 10:09 |
| schestowitz | Pro-linux, no sight of trolls | Jul 21 10:09 |
| schestowitz | No, they never managed to derail it | Jul 21 10:09 |
| schestowitz | Not in over a decade. it even gained pace | Jul 21 10:10 |
| _Goblin | I think its a good sign....if there wasnt a fear there would be no trolls. | Jul 21 10:10 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jul 21 10:11 |
| schestowitz | Said before.. | Jul 21 10:11 |
| schestowitz | Linux is the biggest threat to them | Jul 21 10:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft eases back on IE 8 default < http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10289423-75.html > | Jul 21 10:15 |
| schestowitz | They treat is like Microsoft is the good guy, after all the horrible things it did | Jul 21 10:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nice new game coming to Linux: http://ping.fm/CAL73 ("After 6 years, fan-made Star Fox looks great") | Jul 21 10:15 | |
| schestowitz | Few days left before Microsoft financial embarrassment. No doubt some Mac people will be jubilant too | Jul 21 10:17 |
| oiaohm | Biggest threat is not really Linux. Biggest threat is if anything appears that is cross platform that breaks there ms office/server interlink. | Jul 21 10:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @markey: Launchpad finally opens up :) http://2tu.us/kxu | Jul 21 10:20 | |
| schestowitz | Hehe. People make predication and NUMBERS for 2020.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8157043.stm | Jul 21 10:21 |
| schestowitz | That's too far for predictions on mobile 'apps' | Jul 21 10:21 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: middleware like Java/Netscape? | Jul 21 10:22 |
| schestowitz | That was a risk over 10 years ago | Jul 21 10:22 |
| schestowitz | When Linux was not common or practical for desktops yet (1995 say..) | Jul 21 10:22 |
| oiaohm | Its part of the reason for the agressiveness of MS against google. | Jul 21 10:25 |
| schestowitz | SaaS | Jul 21 10:26 |
| oiaohm | kontact being ported cross platform incombination with kolab is a threat to the all important outlook exchange hybred. | Jul 21 10:26 |
| oiaohm | samba lining up to provide a ADS. | Jul 21 10:27 |
| schestowitz | Or in simple terms, running apps via the browser, as Microsoft feared when Netscape thrived | Jul 21 10:27 |
| oiaohm | Basically threats coming thick and fast. | Jul 21 10:27 |
| schestowitz | Netscape+Java means rich applications over the Web | Jul 21 10:27 |
| oiaohm | All from different directions. | Jul 21 10:27 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft wrote about it | Jul 21 10:27 |
| oiaohm | They still fear the Netscape+Java like event. | Jul 21 10:27 |
| oiaohm | Except coming from google firefox and chrome. | Jul 21 10:28 |
| schestowitz | How will they monetise Office on the Web? | Jul 21 10:28 |
| schestowitz | This is insane and they know it | Jul 21 10:28 |
| oiaohm | Advertising. | Jul 21 10:28 |
| schestowitz | They FUD GOogle Apps now endlessly | Jul 21 10:29 |
| oiaohm | They hope. | Jul 21 10:29 |
| schestowitz | And they also use their proprietary formats | Jul 21 10:29 |
| schestowitz | They had another plot | Jul 21 10:29 |
| oiaohm | Wonder how long before effective add replacement appears for on line MS Office. | Jul 21 10:29 |
| schestowitz | Make Office online only to people with desktop copy of Office | Jul 21 10:29 |
| schestowitz | But it misses the point | Jul 21 10:29 |
| schestowitz | So the issue remains. | Jul 21 10:29 |
| schestowitz | Subscription? People don't want to pay. Other services are free | Jul 21 10:29 |
| oiaohm | Google is working on means to run native code for web interfaces. | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: ads are the same issue | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | THey compete | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | They don't have monopoly online | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | So they don't set the rules | Jul 21 10:30 |
| oiaohm | Even that they have spent billions trying to make a online monopoly. | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | Lost | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | Not just spent | Jul 21 10:30 |
| schestowitz | Like half a billion/quarter (or year) | Jul 21 10:31 |
| oiaohm | Yep since about 1995 | Jul 21 10:31 |
| oiaohm | Its a lot of cash lost. | Jul 21 10:31 |
| oiaohm | I really don't see how MS can keep up dumping product for much longer. | Jul 21 10:34 |
| schestowitz | We need to show the angle of OOo and Linux versus Office and Windows profits, respectively. | Jul 21 10:34 |
| schestowitz | Students get Office free sometimes | Jul 21 10:34 |
| oiaohm | MS needs windows 7 to sell big time. | Jul 21 10:34 |
| schestowitz | I heard from DaemonFC about it going for $5 | Jul 21 10:35 |
| schestowitz | Some people auction it on ebay | Jul 21 10:35 |
| Ng | oiaohm: they will sell a bunch of it automatically through new PC sales ;) | Jul 21 10:35 |
| oiaohm | OEM's want it for less than Vista Ng | Jul 21 10:35 |
| schestowitz | Does V7 has a lockin? | Jul 21 10:35 |
| schestowitz | Other than Vista's? | Jul 21 10:36 |
| schestowitz | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/oops-he-did-it-again-ballmer-has-another-one-of-his-moments/ | Jul 21 10:36 |
| schestowitz | Here is Ballmer going insane over the economy and V7 | Jul 21 10:36 |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 10:38 | |
| trmanco | http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1308785&cid=28758991 | Jul 21 10:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Attitude Says It All http://ping.fm/3MPBj | Jul 21 10:46 | |
| oiaohm | Problem is also the dumping is cutting into there PC sales of Office as well Ng | Jul 21 10:47 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: they are miserable. And two faced. | Jul 21 10:48 |
| schestowitz | Ignore the puppets like Ramji | Jul 21 10:48 |
| trmanco | but it is a good thing, sort of | Jul 21 10:48 |
| Ng | oiaohm: sure, they'll still make a lot of money, just maybe less than before as they slowly contract and die :) | Jul 21 10:48 |
| schestowitz | The commands comes form above and he's still a PR peon | Jul 21 10:48 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-200-123.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 10:49 | |
| trmanco | what they did, they did it to "promote" it's technology (which has no comparison with kvm), but hey, better then nothing | Jul 21 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Ewww.. | Jul 21 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Watch the Novell ads at the top of the page | Jul 21 10:49 |
| trmanco | but, the patch really should be reviewed, and well tested before linux becomes a hole... | Jul 21 10:50 |
| trmanco | I didn't scroll to top | Jul 21 10:50 |
| oiaohm | MS is already in the contract stage. | Jul 21 10:50 |
| oiaohm | The question is can MS level it out before they die. | Jul 21 10:51 |
| schestowitz | "Red Hat Inc., up $1.72 at $22.32" http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/rss/story/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090720/us_wall_street_stocks.html?.v=1 | Jul 21 10:51 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not many admins will run Linux on Windows | Jul 21 10:52 |
| schestowitz | "Oops. I can't reach my Linux server..." | Jul 21 10:52 |
| schestowitz | "Why?" | Jul 21 10:52 |
| schestowitz | "Well, WIndows crashed" | Jul 21 10:52 |
| schestowitz | Or "WIndows has a Patch Tuesday" | Jul 21 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Sorry to say I know a lot here that will. | Jul 21 10:52 |
| oiaohm | At least at first. | Jul 21 10:52 |
| trmanco | "Linus once say “If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won” ? :) " | Jul 21 10:52 |
| schestowitz | Why would anyone run a Ferrari on a skaeboard | Jul 21 10:52 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: they can make lock-ins | Jul 21 10:53 |
| oiaohm | These are MS brain washed Admins I am talking about. | Jul 21 10:53 |
| Ng | I think you can argue it both ways. It lets people moving to Windows get their linux stuff off bare hardware, and it lets people wanting to migrate away from windows prove the technologies without additional hardware | Jul 21 10:53 |
| schestowitz | All sorts of addictions... | Jul 21 10:53 |
| schestowitz | BUT... | Jul 21 10:53 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsofts_linux_driver_offering_planned_for_years Microsoft's Linux driver offering planned for years | Jul 21 10:53 |
| schestowitz | So bear in mind this is an OLD strategy | Jul 21 10:53 |
| schestowitz | It might be out of date by now | Jul 21 10:53 |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-128-86.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 10:54 | |
| oiaohm | It was planed for years. | Jul 21 10:54 |
| schestowitz | Hyper-Pee never took off | Jul 21 10:54 |
| oiaohm | It was meant to be something unique for Novell. | Jul 21 10:54 |
| oiaohm | To give Novell an advantage over other distributions. | Jul 21 10:54 |
| schestowitz | They still sort of struggle, but they control the management of VMware via EMC | Jul 21 10:54 |
| oiaohm | Guess what it has not worked out. | Jul 21 10:54 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat made an agreement | Jul 21 10:54 |
| schestowitz | Months ago | Jul 21 10:54 |
| schestowitz | So it changed | Jul 21 10:55 |
| schestowitz | But Red Hat pays Microsoft $0 | Jul 21 10:55 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft sort of gave up there | Jul 21 10:55 |
| schestowitz | And they never beat Red Hat like they hoped in 2006 | Jul 21 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat still _hires_ | Jul 21 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Redhat wants to inspect every patent they sign off on. | Jul 21 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Not a game patent holders like. | Jul 21 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm... should I post some Linux news? | Jul 21 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Been a day since I last did... | Jul 21 10:56 |
| schestowitz | HappyGeek from LinuxDevice seems to be on a very long vacation, no? | Jul 21 10:56 |
| schestowitz | *Devices | Jul 21 10:56 |
| schestowitz | He took over when Rick Lehrbaum left. I hope there's no permanent cessation or something. | Jul 21 10:57 |
| schestowitz | I've totally lost track of TuxMachines news | Jul 21 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Tax time schestowitz | Jul 21 11:04 |
| _Goblin | Roy, completely off topic here....Have you seen the TV Sitcom the IT Crowd? | Jul 21 11:04 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 11:04 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-138-72.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 11:04 | |
| oiaohm | Normal break in device releases. | Jul 21 11:04 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: no, I haven't watched new sitcoms in years | Jul 21 11:06 |
| _Goblin | I would recommend...Ive just started watching it...IT guys in a basement of offices....the title music ends in a BSOD...its very good. | Jul 21 11:07 |
| Ng | _Goblin: "I'm sorry, are you from the past?" ;) | Jul 21 11:08 |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Connection timed out) | Jul 21 11:08 | |
| _Goblin | yeah..... 1840 I came here in a Delorian | Jul 21 11:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] India Bets on GNU/Linux with New Chips http://ping.fm/Chl4h | Jul 21 11:08 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux is on the Shelves http://ping.fm/5VOfs | Jul 21 11:10 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New List of Great New Features in Linux http://ping.fm/TjRS1 | Jul 21 11:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How the Freedom and Transparency of Linux Advance Itself http://ping.fm/fIdnq | Jul 21 11:13 | |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 11:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Japanese Nuclear Lab Uses GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/Cxrgj | Jul 21 11:21 | |
| *pk has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jul 21 11:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sims 3 Runs on GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/noC1e | Jul 21 11:25 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-29-101.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 11:41 | |
| *magentar (n=magentar@ip-95-223-204-2.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 11:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment and GNOME Join Their Powers http://ping.fm/HhwR0 | Jul 21 11:47 | |
| *magentar has quit ("reboot") | Jul 21 11:48 | |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-180-235.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 11:48 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Short Review of PCLinuxOS 2009.2 http://ping.fm/LvF0u I used it and liked it | Jul 21 11:49 | |
| *wizz has quit ("Leaving") | Jul 21 11:49 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Release of GeeXboX 1.2.3, Specialised GNU/Linux Distribution http://ping.fm/WnHhc | Jul 21 11:50 | |
| *magentar (n=magentar@ip-95-223-204-2.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 11:53 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Phones from Palm to Get an SDK Soon http://ping.fm/0ruGa The Future is "Open Source Smartphones" http://ping.fm/5WuMt | Jul 21 11:53 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 11:56 | |
| *scelbybyteprimer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 11:59 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software is Big Business, Income http://ping.fm/OtTWN | Jul 21 12:00 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software CMSs Show That Drupal,Joomla, WordPress Skills Pay a Lot http://ping.fm/Z4mJ5 | Jul 21 12:02 | |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) | Jul 21 12:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Freedom Software Comes to Genomics http://ping.fm/KrXY4 | Jul 21 12:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Calls Summer of Code "Externship" http://ping.fm/OP4gg | Jul 21 12:10 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rackspace Tries to Antagonise Amazon Lock-in http://ping.fm/PyAhx http://ping.fm/hVISC | Jul 21 12:12 | |
| *_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jul 21 12:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Foundation Site on Apollo 11 Software http://ping.fm/zpROA | Jul 21 12:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The EFF Finds New, Borader Coalition Against the ACTA Conspiracy http://ping.fm/sLmAq | Jul 21 12:15 | |
| *ugufjhfj (n=ugufjhfj@modemcable213.226-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 12:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Man Claims to Own Photographs of His Sculpture http://ping.fm/kAREw http://ping.fm/AtQrL | Jul 21 12:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Indonesia Says Intellectual Monopolies Are Against the Religion http://ping.fm/gPT4Y | Jul 21 12:19 | |
| *fewa (n=fewa@97-126-28-93.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 12:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO is in Big, Big Trouble (More "Fraud" Claimed) http://ping.fm/qPI7e | Jul 21 12:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono is Not-So-Free Software (Ask Microsoft) http://ping.fm/SWJlg | Jul 21 12:26 | |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 12:26 | |
| oiaohm | I can understand why its getting more and more possiable to make 3d models from photos. | Jul 21 12:27 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Jul 21 12:28 |
| schestowitz | Resolution? | Jul 21 12:28 |
| schestowitz | CPU power? | Jul 21 12:28 |
| schestowitz | You need undrstanding of the image | Jul 21 12:28 |
| schestowitz | Then you can do speculative stereovision | Jul 21 12:29 |
| oiaohm | With sculpures. | Jul 21 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Our brain has stereovisiob built in | Jul 21 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Its light . | Jul 21 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Likewise inreverses the image that we see (flipping it upside down) | Jul 21 12:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Linux 'Contribution' is All About Windows, Embrace, and Extend http://ping.fm/Lgfsj http://ping.fm/HtpRV | Jul 21 12:29 | |
| oiaohm | You only 1 photo to make a part 3d image. | Jul 21 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Using the way shadows work. | Jul 21 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Basically you can just take pictures from different angles and join them up to make a 3d model. | Jul 21 12:30 |
| schestowitz | Yes, that's not new | Jul 21 12:30 |
| oiaohm | It is a lot of processing time but doable. | Jul 21 12:30 |
| schestowitz | I was doing a PhD in the area and location of corners and edges allows you to build 3d maps | Jul 21 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Even the human eye can do it | Jul 21 12:31 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-56-40.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 12:31 | |
| schestowitz | Cover one eye and judge by undersranding of your surrounding | Jul 21 12:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: speed dpeends on image size | Jul 21 12:31 |
| oiaohm | With my eyes I sometimes are only working on 1. | Jul 21 12:31 |
| schestowitz | A lot of things can tested in 32x32 | Jul 21 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Or 32x32x32 | Jul 21 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Only problem I have is airborn objects. | Jul 21 12:32 |
| oiaohm | That needs both eyes to range. | Jul 21 12:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How the FSF Resolved the Debate About #mono (Which is Indeed a Trojan) http://ping.fm/lU3n6 | Jul 21 12:34 | |
| oiaohm | Hard bit for processing is working out how the different angles 3d models join up. | Jul 21 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Ie what is back ground and can be junked.. | Jul 21 12:34 |
| *pk (n=pk@cpc3-broo3-0-0-cust242.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 12:40 | |
| *Python1320 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 21 12:40 | |
| *Python1320 (n=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 12:41 | |
| neighborlee | oiaohm, thx for url..I was hoping to hearing something definitely soon about the new promise ;) | Jul 21 13:08 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.6.71) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 13:34 | |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.3.160.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 13:35 | |
| *harrytuttle (i=528c0ab2@gateway/web/freenode/x-b35c750fb0ec00dc) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 13:38 | |
| harrytuttle | hello, im still looking for someone who knows how to do properly a distro (ubuntu) repackaging | Jul 21 13:40 |
| harrytuttle | anyone done this before? | Jul 21 13:41 |
| tacone | reason ? | Jul 21 13:41 |
| *ugufjhfj has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jul 21 13:41 | |
| tacone | schestowitz: mdz likes sam varghese and BN | Jul 21 13:41 |
| tacone | http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/07/13/backlash-feminism-considered-harmful/#comment-1243 | Jul 21 13:41 |
| harrytuttle | tacone: getting experience with doing a fork | Jul 21 13:42 |
| tacone | you want to fork the entire distro ? | Jul 21 13:43 |
| *pk has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 13:45 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-56-40.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 13:49 | |
| Muttley | surprised you guys haven't done one yet. could call it uBNuntu | Jul 21 13:54 |
| harrytuttle | well, not completely fork, maybe call that a derivate | Jul 21 13:57 |
| trmanco | there already are many | Jul 21 13:57 |
| harrytuttle | then why not add another one? :_) | Jul 21 13:58 |
| harrytuttle | i saw 2 tools: remastersys and reconstructor | Jul 21 13:58 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu does need a good xfce and kde variant so there's still a niche to fill | Jul 21 13:59 |
| harrytuttle | are there limits as to do add or reconfigure stuff? | Jul 21 14:00 |
| ThistleWeb | though I coubt canonical would be endorse either one considering they have official versions themselves | Jul 21 14:00 |
| ThistleWeb | ;) | Jul 21 14:00 |
| harrytuttle | i mean, would adding/removing stuff be as simple as apt-get? | Jul 21 14:01 |
| *monkeyboy (i=dcff07ea@gateway/web/freenode/x-1105b2347bcc83ee) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 14:01 | |
| *monkeyboy has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 14:02 | |
| ThistleWeb | you could go the crunchbang route, but on your own path, start with the ubuntu minimal cd and build your distro from that, rather than the full ubuntu | Jul 21 14:02 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Jul 21 14:03 | |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 14:05 | |
| *thenixedreport (n=thomas@75.134.39.205) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 14:06 | |
| thenixedreport | What's up? | Jul 21 14:07 |
| thenixedreport | How's it going everyone? | Jul 21 14:07 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:07 |
| MinceR | the direction opposite that of the gravitational field of the nearest cosmic body | Jul 21 14:07 |
| MinceR | :) | Jul 21 14:07 |
| thenixedreport | Cool. | Jul 21 14:07 |
| thenixedreport | Getting stuff on Ebay is pretty difficult. | Jul 21 14:07 |
| thenixedreport | At least if you're budget is really low. | Jul 21 14:07 |
| desu | D: | Jul 21 14:08 |
| thenixedreport | http://tinyurl.com/l4f665 | Jul 21 14:08 |
| *desu slaps MinceR | Jul 21 14:08 | |
| MinceR | desu desu desu desu | Jul 21 14:08 |
| thenixedreport | I'm thinking about bidding on the EeePC. | Jul 21 14:08 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:08 |
| thenixedreport | So Bruce Byfield was biased I hear. | Jul 21 14:09 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:09 |
| desu | MinceR MinceR MinceR | Jul 21 14:09 |
| thenixedreport | Does anybody know the e-mail address of RMS? | Jul 21 14:09 |
| thenixedreport | That way, I can do what Byfield failed to do (note: I haven't read Byfield's piece yet) | Jul 21 14:09 |
| MinceR | i'd expect to find it on fsf.org | Jul 21 14:09 |
| fewa | rms@stallman.org | Jul 21 14:09 |
| thenixedreport | I'll take a look there. | Jul 21 14:09 |
| MinceR | right, he has a personal site too | Jul 21 14:10 |
| thenixedreport | @fewa: has he responded to e-mails sent there? | Jul 21 14:10 |
| fewa | whoops that wrong | Jul 21 14:10 |
| thenixedreport | Oh. | Jul 21 14:10 |
| thenixedreport | Ok. | Jul 21 14:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 50 New CSS Techniques For Your Next Web Design: http://is.gd/1GoKq | Jul 21 14:10 | |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:10 |
| fewa | rms aT gnu | Jul 21 14:10 |
| thenixedreport | Ah, thanks. | Jul 21 14:10 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:10 |
| thenixedreport | Now are there certain e-mail address (such as ones from Google) that he won't read at all? | Jul 21 14:11 |
| fewa | well its better to use your own name for your emails | Jul 21 14:11 |
| fewa | instead of having another company own your name | Jul 21 14:12 |
| thenixedreport | So using my gmail address wouldn't be a good idea then? | Jul 21 14:12 |
| amarsh04_ | rms has replied to an email I sent... using my isp account's email address | Jul 21 14:12 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Jul 21 14:13 | |
| desu | trmanco: nice.... | Jul 21 14:19 |
| trmanco | :-) | Jul 21 14:19 |
| Balrog | so ... launchpad has been released as FOSS under the agpl | Jul 21 14:27 |
| Balrog | http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/21/1224259/Canonical-Fully-Open-Sources-the-Launchpad-Code?art_pos=1&art_pos=1 | Jul 21 14:27 |
| ThistleWeb | Balrog: it has? wow, I thought it'd been delayed | Jul 21 14:28 |
| Balrog | and all of it, too | Jul 21 14:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] most important microsoft patent mystery finally solved http://is.gd/1Gq4Q earth-shattering! | Jul 21 14:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Verdict on Microsoft’s Linux Patch: Embrace, Extend, and Assimilate http://ping.fm/9CIH6 | Jul 21 14:34 | |
| schestowitz | <Muttley> "uBNuntu" would only need mono-nono preinstalled | Jul 21 14:35 |
| schestowitz | And I think gnewsense is already doing that | Jul 21 14:35 |
| schestowitz | But gnewsense is not for everyone('s hardware) | Jul 21 14:35 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: why is there even mono in gnewsense's repos? | Jul 21 14:35 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: did you hear the latest Linux Action Show? BN get's a mention | Jul 21 14:35 |
| ThistleWeb | inbetween some mono love | Jul 21 14:35 |
| MinceR | they might be using the ubuntu repos | Jul 21 14:35 |
| MinceR | like kubuntu and xubuntu do | Jul 21 14:36 |
| Balrog | ahh. | Jul 21 14:36 |
| thenixedreport | Bingo. | Jul 21 14:36 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:36 |
| Ugh. Byfield is a tool. | Jul 21 14:36 | |
| He printed Lefty's smear of RMS. | Jul 21 14:36 | |
| schestowitz | Balrog: in the repos it's OK | Jul 21 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Choice and Freedom | Jul 21 14:36 |
| schestowitz | Just don't depend on it | Jul 21 14:36 |
| schestowitz | As the FSF said | Jul 21 14:36 |
| schestowitz | That was always the suggestion. Don't distribute with Microsoft stuff | Jul 21 14:37 |
| schestowitz | Same for wine to an extent... but Wine only runs .exes | Jul 21 14:37 |
| Let's see http://news.google.com/news?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=byfield+stallman | Jul 21 14:37 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I couldn't find the mention | Jul 21 14:37 |
| July 3, "Let's Settle the Mono Debate" | Jul 21 14:37 | |
| ThistleWeb | it's about 50 mins in | Jul 21 14:37 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw was unimpressed by all of Byfield's pieces on Mono | Jul 21 14:38 |
| July 8, "Open Source Landmark: Mono Freed at Last?" | Jul 21 14:38 | |
| schestowitz | He tries to seem balanced | Jul 21 14:38 |
| ThistleWeb | they do the mature adult thing when talking about "zealots who give us all a bad name" without naming BN | Jul 21 14:38 |
| schestowitz | But the convictions show through | Jul 21 14:38 |
| ThistleWeb | a site about novell and boycotting | Jul 21 14:38 |
| July, "Richard Stallman, Leadership and Sexism" | Jul 21 14:38 | |
| ThistleWeb | maybe it's about 40 actually now I think abou tit | Jul 21 14:39 |
| It's pretty transparent, just like his treatment of Boycott Novell and Slashdot shich he also smears. | Jul 21 14:39 | |
| schestowitz | what was the URL? | Jul 21 14:39 |
| MinceR | i don't see what's "mature" or "adult" about it | Jul 21 14:39 |
| ThistleWeb | it's around the middle anyway, the mono stuff takes up quite a large part | Jul 21 14:39 |
| http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/12297_3830651_3/Richard-Stallman-Leadership-and-Sexism.htm | Jul 21 14:39 | |
| ThistleWeb | MinceR: I guess you missed the sarcasm | Jul 21 14:39 |
| ThistleWeb | jupiterbroadcasting.com | Jul 21 14:39 |
| MinceR | i guess i did :> | Jul 21 14:39 |
| schestowitz | "...Lefty and some anonymous troll, which has escalated to the point where the other party has been emailing me (the blog owner) threats and conspiracy theories..." | Jul 21 14:40 |
| schestowitz | See? I told you. | Jul 21 14:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-07-20-017-35-OS-CY-0004 "That amazes me, too. I posted a single comment on BoycottNovell and between 8:24AM and 2:39PM I got 18 emails in my inbox, all from a guy named "Lefty", who is one of the worst astroturfers on BN." | Jul 21 14:40 |
| schestowitz | he mailed me like 20 times too | Jul 21 14:40 |
| He starts the article with four or five paragraphs of apology for what he's about to do. Dismisses opposition and quotes Lefty. | Jul 21 14:40 | |
| schestowitz | But let's not talk about it | Jul 21 14:41 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to be on this firing line | Jul 21 14:41 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: thanks for the video link | Jul 21 14:41 |
| Then they shut you up ahead of time. | Jul 21 14:41 | |
| MinceR | hm, does not banning astroturfers reflect badly on us then? | Jul 21 14:41 |
| MinceR | "astroturfers on BN" | Jul 21 14:41 |
| no, it reflects badly on astroturfers | Jul 21 14:41 | |
| ThistleWeb | np, I subscribe to the audio rss feed but they do have it in various versions | Jul 21 14:41 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: you could give him a shiny new line in your sieve/maildrop/procmail script :> | Jul 21 14:42 |
| ThistleWeb | like I said, there's a lot about mono in that ep | Jul 21 14:42 |
| IT management's web site sucks. It's one of those that's broken for Lenny users. | Jul 21 14:42 | |
| ThistleWeb | then onto peeps who make the community "look bad" which they include you and RMS | Jul 21 14:42 |
| *Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@64.223.231.148) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 14:42 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://my.opera.com/hallvors/blog/2009/07/20/most-expensive-javascript-ever | Jul 21 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh wow | Jul 21 14:42 |
| ThistleWeb | Bryans latest blog post is also on the same theme about RMS | Jul 21 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont think I've ever laughed so hard ever | Jul 21 14:42 |
| It serves an advert that blows up every browser I have on Lenny and I can only read the trash in KDE 4. | Jul 21 14:43 | |
| schestowitz | <tacone> schestowitz: mdz likes sam varghese and BN | Jul 21 14:43 |
| schestowitz | He does? | Jul 21 14:43 |
| schestowitz | I got the opposite impression for some reason. | Jul 21 14:43 |
| tacone | schestowitz: read the link. obviously not. | Jul 21 14:43 |
| schestowitz | SOme people spread the misconception that I have something against Ubuntu | Jul 21 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: read that url I just posted now | Jul 21 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | it is beyond epic | Jul 21 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Because some zealots out there use BN posts to troll Ubuntu | Jul 21 14:43 |
| The usual smear Roy, that you hate Linux and freedom. | Jul 21 14:44 | |
| The trolls will say anything to have people not listen to you. | Jul 21 14:44 | |
| thenixedreport | http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-zeal-becomes-zealotry-tawdry-tale.html | Jul 21 14:46 |
| tacone | schestowitz: this comment http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/07/13/backlash-feminism-considered-harmful/#comment-1243 | Jul 21 14:46 |
| thenixedreport | He responded to my comment. | Jul 21 14:46 |
| thenixedreport | And dang. | Jul 21 14:46 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 14:46 |
| MinceR | interesting -- the man who pretty much founded the community makes it look bad by standing up to the same ideals | Jul 21 14:46 |
| MinceR | perhaps they should look for another community then. | Jul 21 14:46 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/08/truth-about-linux-action-show/ | Jul 21 14:47 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/05/linux-sucks-fud/ | Jul 21 14:47 |
| schestowitz | Lundy uses Windows at work | Jul 21 14:47 |
| ThistleWeb | Bryan does like controversy | Jul 21 14:48 |
| ThistleWeb | Brayn and Chris seem like nice blokes, just some of their opinions have been kinda odd | Jul 21 14:49 |
| Ugh, Byfield takes it to the next level -> What compounds the problem is that sexism is an ongoing problem in free software, but many people are reluctant to admit the fact. | Jul 21 14:50 | |
| MinceR | huh? | Jul 21 14:50 |
| MinceR | i've never heard of that before | Jul 21 14:50 |
| MinceR | what did he pull that out of? | Jul 21 14:50 |
| Free software is sexist according to Byfield. Didn't you notice? | Jul 21 14:50 | |
| He pulled it out of the thin air after reading Lefty's blog. | Jul 21 14:51 | |
| trmanco | no extra op? | Jul 21 14:51 |
| A world that's dominated by irc and email exchanges about code is the least sexist place on earth. | Jul 21 14:52 | |
| trmanco | I could be one, I'm always online :-P | Jul 21 14:52 |
| trmanco | as long as my bouncer doesn't die | Jul 21 14:52 |
| MinceR | if we want extra ops, we should use flags in chanserv, imo | Jul 21 14:52 |
| MinceR | otherwise it just won't stick | Jul 21 14:52 |
| trmanco | yeah | Jul 21 14:52 |
| more shit. -> women's participation in free software is much lower than their participation in proprietary software development -- less than one-twentieth, according to the keynote that Angela Byron delivered at this year's Open Web Vancouver conference? Why else do organizations like LinuxChix and Debian Women exist? | Jul 21 14:53 | |
| -> as disturbing as his comment and justification undeniably are, to concentrate on them too much would be a waste of energy. For all his accomplishments, Stallman is one person, and, like anyone, he is capable of errors in judgment. We should deplore his comment and move on. | Jul 21 14:55 | |
| That's it people, let's be mature adults and condemn RMS. | Jul 21 14:56 | |
| It's obvious that RMS hates the Virgin Mary, Apple Pie and kittens. | Jul 21 14:56 | |
| thenixedreport | @twitter: I'm gonna quote you. | Jul 21 14:56 |
| thenixedreport | :P | Jul 21 14:56 |
| -> to keep silent, I believe, is to accept free software while it is less than it can be -- and that is not something that I want to do. Nor should anyone else. | Jul 21 14:57 | |
| That's it! To make free software better, we have to all parrot a hatchet job. | Jul 21 14:58 | |
| Sanctimoniously accept a lie about the free software world and perpetuate it. | Jul 21 14:59 | |
| Look, I'm ridiculing Byfield. I must hate men. Sexisim! | Jul 21 14:59 | |
| Ask yourself why there's so few "real journalists," as he likes to call himself, in the free software world? | Jul 21 15:00 | |
| I heard this was addressed at the M$ sponsored Sockpuppet Con 2006. | Jul 21 15:01 | |
| *scelbybyteprimer (n=teddy1@58.168.90.204) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 15:01 | |
| That's enough of this for me. Byfield has really shown his true colors on this one. | Jul 21 15:03 | |
| *skjg (i=5496edb6@gateway/web/freenode/x-7aa885ef93e4dd44) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 15:03 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: it's no news that Action Show resents us | Jul 21 15:04 |
| schestowitz | See the posts I showed you | Jul 21 15:04 |
| schestowitz | They also have the FSF | Jul 21 15:04 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah I read them | Jul 21 15:04 |
| ThistleWeb | LAS seem to be pissing many Linux peeps off | Jul 21 15:05 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux peeps | Jul 21 15:05 |
| schestowitz | But what's new to me is that Lundy is a Windows user :-D | Jul 21 15:05 |
| schestowitz | Priceless | Jul 21 15:05 |
| ha ha, Grey Geek dreams on -> It wouldn't suprise me if De Icaza moved to Ubuntu | Jul 21 15:05 | |
| I would not be surprised if Icaza was using Windows. | Jul 21 15:06 | |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip68-230-37-218.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 15:06 | |
| I know other .NET people who are. It seems to go hand in hand. | Jul 21 15:06 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: he does sometimes | Jul 21 15:06 |
| schestowitz | he releases Windows-only s/w a while back | Jul 21 15:06 |
| figures | Jul 21 15:07 | |
| ThistleWeb | just reading (or skimming over) the comments on http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com/2009/06/when-zeal-becomes-zealotry-tawdry-tale.html and noticed a thread, most of the attacks are all from a pretty prolific poster called Anonymous | Jul 21 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Minutes apart | Jul 21 15:07 |
| So, I'd be surprised if Icaza moved to Ubuntu, from Windows. | Jul 21 15:07 | |
| schestowitz | Who knows.... | Jul 21 15:07 |
| schestowitz | I would not go as far as suggesting that people do a puppet show in their own blog for decorative discussion | Jul 21 15:08 |
| Lefty's blog had 100 comments immediately. | Jul 21 15:08 | |
| skjg | ThistleWeb: lol, you realize that "Anonymous" is not one guy but everyone who isn't logged in while entering a comment? ;P | Jul 21 15:08 |
| It's as if he set it up that way to pretend he's open to feed back. Open at the bottom of a 100 post sewer. | Jul 21 15:08 | |
| ThistleWeb | skjg: again IRC let's me down in expressing sarcasm :/ | Jul 21 15:09 |
| skjg | :D | Jul 21 15:09 |
| ThistleWeb | damn IRC | Jul 21 15:09 |
| ThistleWeb | we need smileys ala Yahoo | Jul 21 15:09 |
| ThistleWeb | :( | Jul 21 15:09 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I found it amusing that LAS accuses Red Hat of spreading FUS | Jul 21 15:10 |
| schestowitz | *FUD | Jul 21 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Ohhhh.. those Fedora 'zealots' say there are legal issues with Mono | Jul 21 15:10 |
| schestowitz | [so does the FSF] | Jul 21 15:11 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah they have made some bizarre claims about RH and Fedora in recent weeks | Jul 21 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat does not spread FUD | Jul 21 15:11 |
| schestowitz | It also competes with Novell, which spreads Mono | Jul 21 15:11 |
| ThistleWeb | I have no love for Fedora but I respect their value to the FOSS ecosystem, and RH don't get anywhere near the praise they deserve for their contributions | Jul 21 15:12 |
| ThistleWeb | Linux would be a lot worse off without RH | Jul 21 15:12 |
| ThistleWeb | sometimes LAS do have a point, but the way they choose to make it is provocative | Jul 21 15:14 |
| ThistleWeb | but it's a "show", which means "do your TV presenter act" when explaining stuff | Jul 21 15:14 |
| There you go. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/12297_3830651_2/Richard-Stallman-Leadership-and-Sexism.htm?comment=12637-1312 | Jul 21 15:21 | |
| time to go to work. | Jul 21 15:21 | |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Jul 21 15:21 | |
| *twitter (n=willhill@97-113-221-139.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 15:26 | |
| :) | Jul 21 15:26 | |
| *harrytuttle has quit ("Page closed") | Jul 21 15:27 | |
| fewa | LAS? | Jul 21 15:28 |
| fewa | RH contributes a ton of stuff | Jul 21 15:28 |
| *amarsh04 wonders which Lundy people are referring to. This one: http://www.katelundy.com.au/ ? | Jul 21 15:31 | |
| ThistleWeb | LAS = Linux Action Show | Jul 21 15:32 |
| amarsh04 | Pia Waugh works for Senator Kate Lundy these days | Jul 21 15:33 |
| ThistleWeb | found at jupiterbroadcasting.com | Jul 21 15:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Revisited: The FSF’s and Red Hat’s Position on Mono http://ping.fm/DAKTO | Jul 21 15:35 | |
| wallclimber | I've avoided reading much about the Stallman "sexist remarks" kerfluffle, but I decided to read some of the links posted here. | Jul 21 15:41 |
| *_Goblin (n=root@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 15:41 | |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz, should the recent boycottnovell.com article: "OPEN SOURCE EVEN OF THE YEAR OPEN WORLD FORUM UNVEILS PROGRAM" use the word "EVENT" instead of "EVEN"? | Jul 21 15:42 |
| *pk (n=pk@cpc3-broo3-0-0-cust242.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 15:42 | |
| wallclimber | it seems to me that people are making a huge problem out of a very small incident | Jul 21 15:42 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: is the typo in the original too? | Jul 21 15:43 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: it was a parody | Jul 21 15:43 |
| schestowitz | I hope you don't read the 'wrong' links above | Jul 21 15:43 |
| schestowitz | They are put here to show the anti-RMS bias | Jul 21 15:43 |
| wallclimber | i know. | Jul 21 15:43 |
| wallclimber | I'm pretty good at spotting the garbage | Jul 21 15:44 |
| wallclimber | : ) | Jul 21 15:44 |
| wallclimber | it all just seems like people making a lot of noise about something silly, to take attention away from real issues | Jul 21 15:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] According to #Microsoft, #Linux is a bigger threat to the company than #Apple - http://tinyurl.com/dhc9kl #windows #vista #foss | Jul 21 15:46 | |
| amarsh04 | it's in the original schestowitz, so I'm emailing the contact for that web site | Jul 21 15:47 |
| wallclimber | i can personally attest to the fact that sexism, and prejudice against old folks exists. But if we all get our feelings hurt every time an ignorant person says something thoughtless, we'd never get anything accomplished | Jul 21 15:47 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: no need | Jul 21 15:47 |
| schestowitz | It's their own problem | Jul 21 15:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "According to #Microsoft, #Linux is a bigger threat to the company than #Apple" - http://tinyurl.com/dhc9kl #windows #vista #foss | Jul 21 15:47 | |
| _Goblin | sorry guys for the double post....forgot the "" | Jul 21 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Good recap | Jul 21 15:48 |
| tacone | F-spot can be conveniently substituted by http://www.stefanoforenza.com/solang-hits-fedora/, which is http://hicham.iblogger.org/. | Jul 21 15:51 |
| tacone | bad, you link to the hicham repository, while now it's in the official | Jul 21 15:51 |
| amarsh04 | sometime schestowitz I feel that sites with typos need reminding that they've had typos that no-one even noticed for a while... makes them realise how little some people notice what's on some web sites | Jul 21 15:52 |
| tacone | you link also to the official one, but it's messy | Jul 21 15:52 |
| schestowitz | No big deal.. | Jul 21 15:52 |
| schestowitz | IMHO | Jul 21 15:52 |
| tacone | i agree. i just noticed because of the trackback | Jul 21 15:53 |
| tacone | no problem for me. | Jul 21 15:53 |
| amarsh04 | I don't mind linuxtoday.com linking to a site with comments that links back to an original article when part of the information is how others reacted to the original article | Jul 21 15:54 |
| amarsh04 | dead tree newspapers can be disengeneous (sp) lifting from web sites but leaving too little detail to find the source web pages | Jul 21 15:55 |
| _Goblin | I've sometimes found "little gems" in the press that didnt appear in a RSS feed or google....(in relation to mags) | Jul 21 15:56 |
| _Goblin | a good example was yesterdays article on the IT pro's linux survey | Jul 21 15:56 |
| thenixedreport | E-mailed Stallman. | Jul 21 15:57 |
| thenixedreport | Hopefully, he'll write back. | Jul 21 15:57 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 15:57 |
| _Goblin | I would love to attend one of his talks...not because I agree with everything he says but I think he's a very interesting, educated individual... | Jul 21 15:58 |
| wallclimber | Goblin: I agree, I think it would be great fun to attend one of his talks. I do, however, think he's sometimes a bit lacking in people skills. | Jul 21 16:00 |
| _Goblin | I don't agree with many on the IP debate...whilst I feel patents harm innovation, in respect of copyright I believe that software freedom should extend to developers also and they should have freedoms to release their work in anyway they want.... | Jul 21 16:00 |
| _Goblin | I believe RMS doesnt hold with that. | Jul 21 16:00 |
| wallclimber | Hmmm, don't developers already have the freedom to release their work any way they want? | Jul 21 16:01 |
| amarsh04 | sourcewire just replied about the "EVEN"/"EVENT" typo | Jul 21 16:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "I cant take it - Rocco & Bass T" ♫ http://blip.fm/~achfv | Jul 21 16:01 | |
| _Goblin | yes. but doesnt RMS want "free data" and holds with a stance of "you can't steal it"??? I could be wrong there, but I am sure I heard a talk once with him saying something along those lines... | Jul 21 16:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @JohnBirmingham OMFG Yes!!!! RT @Mr_RPBrown How to Become a Writer - The Harsh Reality http://bit.ly/lcBPj | Jul 21 16:02 | |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jul 21 16:02 | |
| _Goblin | I stand to be corrected though. | Jul 21 16:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "June - Rocco & Bass -T" ♫ http://blip.fm/~achkm | Jul 21 16:03 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Tell Me When - Rocco & Bass-T" ♫ http://blip.fm/~achof | Jul 21 16:05 | |
| thenixedreport | Looks like I might be a response in a day or two. | Jul 21 16:07 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 16:07 |
| thenixedreport | *get | Jul 21 16:07 |
| thenixedreport | Whoops. | Jul 21 16:07 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 16:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IBM’s Latest Filing Regarding SCO Bankruptcy Mentions “Fraud” http://ping.fm/umaTN | Jul 21 16:10 | |
| _Goblin | Lol.... Roy...you might want to see this: | Jul 21 16:12 |
| wallclimber | Both IBM and Novell's filings are great, they all sound very very peeved, and determined...very determined to get to the bottom of things | Jul 21 16:12 |
| _Goblin | "The Curious Case of Boycott Novell" | Jul 21 16:12 |
| _Goblin | http://armchairtheorist.com/2009/07/21/the-curious-case-of-boycott-novell/ | Jul 21 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft vs BN. Woo wha. *Sigh* They make it official... | Jul 21 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Who wants op? I'm off for a while | Jul 21 16:14 |
| _Goblin | Not me thanks! | Jul 21 16:15 |
| _Goblin | I say...wallclimber | Jul 21 16:15 |
| _Goblin | or nixedreport | Jul 21 16:15 |
| wallclimber | what do I have to do? | Jul 21 16:16 |
| wallclimber | I can stay logged in and watch things if needed | Jul 21 16:16 |
| _Goblin | Roy, I know you won't like this, but I have to do a response to that Armchair Theorist on my site... | Jul 21 16:16 |
| _Goblin | wallclimber: I'm not sure if Roy is still here... | Jul 21 16:17 |
| _Goblin | wallclimber: but you should put your name forward for ops...you would be good. | Jul 21 16:17 |
| wallclimber | so tell me what "op" is, so I'll be smarter | Jul 21 16:17 |
| wallclimber | : ) | Jul 21 16:17 |
| wallclimber | Oops "ops" | Jul 21 16:18 |
| _Goblin | simply the one who keeps an eye on the channel and kicks any trolling or vulgarity | Jul 21 16:18 |
| _Goblin | that sort of thing. | Jul 21 16:18 |
| wallclimber | oooh, I would love to kick some trolls...lol | Jul 21 16:18 |
| wallclimber | j/k | Jul 21 16:18 |
| thenixedreport | I'm actually going to head out briefly. | Jul 21 16:18 |
| thenixedreport | Got some business with the university. | Jul 21 16:18 |
| _Goblin | I'll second you when Roy is next in the channel (for ops) | Jul 21 16:19 |
| thenixedreport | I'll stay logged in though. | Jul 21 16:19 |
| _Goblin | what uni? | Jul 21 16:19 |
| _Goblin | in the UK? | Jul 21 16:19 |
| _Goblin | graduated at Heriot Watt in Scotland myself. | Jul 21 16:19 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Goblin | Jul 21 16:20 | |
| _Goblin | lol.... | Jul 21 16:20 |
| schestowitz | bbl | Jul 21 16:20 |
| _Goblin | take care Roy.. | Jul 21 16:20 |
| wallclimber | bye | Jul 21 16:20 |
| *amarsh04 used to work at adelaide.edu.au | Jul 21 16:20 | |
| _Goblin | I miss my uni days.... | Jul 21 16:21 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.249.71.13) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 16:24 | |
| _Hicham_ | hi Lord Schestowitz | Jul 21 16:24 |
| _Goblin | hi _Hicham) | Jul 21 16:25 |
| _Goblin | hi _Hicham_ | Jul 21 16:25 |
| _Hicham_ | how r u doing _Goblin ? | Jul 21 16:25 |
| thenixedreport | http://armchairtheorist.com/2009/07/21/the-curious-case-of-boycott-novell/#comment-3820 | Jul 21 16:27 |
| thenixedreport | My response. | Jul 21 16:27 |
| _Goblin | yeah not bad.... | Jul 21 16:27 |
| _Goblin | nixedreport, I will be making an article on my own blog...I won't be baited to that Microsoft employee's page. | Jul 21 16:27 |
| _Hicham_ | a microsoft evangelist between us ? great | Jul 21 16:29 |
| _Goblin | _Hicham_ that article is way out of context...if ever there was proof of trying to discredit BN, I think thats it. | Jul 21 16:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] US Republicans appeal directly to the "violent crazy person" demographic http://is.gd/1GweZ | Jul 21 16:31 | |
| _Hicham_ | _Goblin : this blogger is just an MS puppet | Jul 21 16:32 |
| _Hicham_ | giving his ass for nothing | Jul 21 16:32 |
| _Goblin | agreed....I can use his post to highlight the underhanded tactics to others less acqainted with what is happening here. | Jul 21 16:33 |
| amarsh04 | thenixedreport, that was a very calm and constructive response | Jul 21 16:34 |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 16:39 | |
| _Goblin | The question to be considered is: Does anyone think it strange that an MS employee would monitor BN channel? If he truely believed what he was saying wouldnt he simply ignore? Afterall I avoid the moon landing conspiracy sites because I find no worth in them.... | Jul 21 16:42 |
| *wayne (n=teddy1@58.168.27.207) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 16:43 | |
| _Goblin | he makes quotes of 2 people (I believe) from an Ubuntu forum and whilst he tries to claim these comments show Roy as being discredited, he fails to mention the publicity gets within the Linux community....I have a contact in the press over in the UK... | Jul 21 16:44 |
| _Goblin | I too have been monitoring and doing a little research...I think certainly with some aspects of whats going on here there will be an interest.... | Jul 21 16:45 |
| *scelbybyteprimer has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jul 21 16:45 | |
| wallclimber | Goblin: I think monitoring is understandable, but commenting so much, and then bogging about it and drawing attention to it, while continually refusing to address the actual issues that BN headlines, is a bit over the top | Jul 21 16:46 |
| _Goblin | I think it highlights a bigger issue....if you look at my COLA activity you will see I post nothing offensive or vulgar, yet because I support a Linux platform myself (and now apparently my family) are the topic of hateful and vulgar posts... | Jul 21 16:48 |
| _Goblin | all because I dare to suggest an alternative to Microsoft. | Jul 21 16:48 |
| wallclimber | I sometimes think some of BN's headline are a bit overly dramatic, but it's not hard for readers to read the original sources if they wish, and make up their own minds | Jul 21 16:48 |
| _Goblin | yes but I think every blogger is guilty of that and I think its made clear in the text that follows. | Jul 21 16:49 |
| _Goblin | I recently made an article entitled "Facebook of Ballmer" | Jul 21 16:49 |
| _Goblin | of course it wasnt... | Jul 21 16:49 |
| wallclimber | link? May i read it? | Jul 21 16:49 |
| _Goblin | standby.... | Jul 21 16:49 |
| _Goblin | be warned....it's my unique sense of humour.... | Jul 21 16:50 |
| _Goblin | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/a-facebook-of-ballmer-kiss-audition/ | Jul 21 16:50 |
| wallclimber | reading now... | Jul 21 16:50 |
| wallclimber | lol...VERY funny! : ) | Jul 21 16:54 |
| _Goblin | thanks - too kind.. | Jul 21 16:55 |
| _Goblin | my email got hammered over that one. | Jul 21 16:55 |
| amarsh04 | one could make comments about the Barmer^Hy army (-: | Jul 21 16:56 |
| wallclimber | then you must have done something right | Jul 21 16:56 |
| _Goblin | I think the KISS fans really took offense at the Ballmer story.... | Jul 21 16:56 |
| wallclimber | there are still KISS fans??? | Jul 21 16:56 |
| _Goblin | the MS shills got sort of lost in the plethora of hate from KISS fans. | Jul 21 16:56 |
| _Goblin | apparently so... | Jul 21 16:56 |
| _Goblin | I had one chap who typed about 1000 words telling me why they were the greatest. | Jul 21 16:56 |
| _Goblin | I felt I had to respond and appologize when he had spent the time typing it. | Jul 21 16:57 |
| wallclimber | (I'm on a business call...) | Jul 21 16:57 |
| *amarsh04 remembers seeing the dvd for KISS' show with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra in the music performance dvd shelves | Jul 21 16:57 | |
| *_Goblin_ (n=root@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 17:03 | |
| _Goblin_ | just eating the hottest (spicy) chicken ive ever had... | Jul 21 17:07 |
| amarsh04 | sounds good... indian/thai/mexican...? | Jul 21 17:10 |
| _Goblin_ | caribean | Jul 21 17:10 |
| _Goblin_ | I believe....just wish I could spell it. | Jul 21 17:11 |
| amarsh04 | not familiar with that cuisine | Jul 21 17:11 |
| _Hicham_ | _Goblin : am I invited ? | Jul 21 17:11 |
| _Goblin_ | Im a big fan since I first went to nottinghill carnival and got my first taste of it.... | Jul 21 17:11 |
| amarsh04 | "where the west indies cricket team come from" (-: | Jul 21 17:11 |
| _Goblin_ | btw if you are ever in the UK at the end of August I recommend going to the canival....its a great day. | Jul 21 17:12 |
| amarsh04 | thanks... I'm not sure if I ever will, had some family members over there March 2008 and they found it cold | Jul 21 17:14 |
| amarsh04 | back in a while, have to get a few things done | Jul 21 17:15 |
| trmanco | http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=812 | Jul 21 17:16 |
| *_Goblin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 17:17 | |
| trmanco | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-July/191788.html | Jul 21 17:17 |
| *mikankun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 21 17:37 | |
| *vida18 (i=564af050@gateway/web/freenode/x-98bdb11cce778c73) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 17:42 | |
| *vida18 has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 17:42 | |
| *vida18 (i=564af050@gateway/web/freenode/x-544ecce320a3fa7b) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 17:43 | |
| vida18 | Microsoft Office 2008 doesn't support ODF !!! | Jul 21 17:44 |
| *vida18 has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 17:45 | |
| *pk has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 17:48 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 17:49 | |
| *cubezzz has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 17:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @Seahorsemystic Universal grade change form http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/change.htm | Jul 21 17:52 | |
| *Lns (n=lns@pdpc/supporter/professional/lns) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 17:53 | |
| trmanco | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/20/microsoft_windows_drivers_linux/ | Jul 21 17:57 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-178-134.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 17:59 | |
| wallclimber | wow...I'd never read about "Deal Factories" before... | Jul 21 18:06 |
| wallclimber | at least, not that there was a specific official name for them | Jul 21 18:08 |
| *cubezzz (n=cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:10 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.6.71) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:11 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 18:12 | |
| wallclimber | Sam Ramji told The Reg we should: "Expect more from us on Red Hat in the coming weeks." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/21/microsoft_gpl_office_server/ (should RedHat be worried?) | Jul 21 18:12 |
| trmanco | not at all | Jul 21 18:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #lameclaimtofame I grew up across the street from Australian cricketer Terry Alderman. His parents still live there. | Jul 21 18:13 | |
| *macabe has quit ("Konversation terminated!") | Jul 21 18:15 | |
| wallclimber | trmanco: when Microsoft says for someone to "expect more from us" - one must wonder if that's a threat or a promise | Jul 21 18:16 |
| trmanco | good point | Jul 21 18:16 |
| *desu has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 18:17 | |
| *desu (n=desu@unaffiliated/desu) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:18 | |
| wallclimber | In the "Deal Factory" powerpoint I was reading a while ago, it states that "In competitive situations: Don't lose" - isn't RedHat a serious competitor? | Jul 21 18:22 |
| wallclimber | Oops, I forgot to give a link to the "Deal Factory" - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/16/microsoft_deal_factories/ | Jul 21 18:22 |
| *amd-linux (i=58418471@gateway/web/freenode/x-082e29199e251f96) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:23 | |
| amd-linux | is Roy here? | Jul 21 18:24 |
| *amd-linux has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 18:25 | |
| *tacone has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 18:27 | |
| *Python1320 has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 18:27 | |
| *fewa has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 18:27 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.6.71) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:29 | |
| *Python1320 (n=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:29 | |
| *fewa (n=fewa@97-126-28-93.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:29 | |
| *fewa has quit () | Jul 21 18:29 | |
| *fewa (n=fewa@97-126-28-93.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:29 | |
| *mikankun (n=mikankun@unaffiliated/angelfly) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:31 | |
| *amd-linux (i=58418471@gateway/web/freenode/x-278f1e635ff28645) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:39 | |
| amd-linux | ### But, even with the Sloan Foundation’s grant, INTERPOL did not have enough resources to make sure that the delegations of some of our less fortunate member countries could attend this conference. So, at the last minute we called Microsoft - already a partner of INTERPOL in fighting computer virus attacks and fighting sexual exploitation of children over the Internet - in order to help fund the travel costs of a num | Jul 21 18:40 |
| *wallclimber has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 18:40 | |
| *tessier has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 18:40 | |
| amd-linux | Micro-Soft sponsored Interpol conferences in 2005. | Jul 21 18:41 |
| amd-linux | http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/speeches/NobleBioTerrorism2005030 1.asp | Jul 21 18:41 |
| amd-linux | http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/speeches/NobleBioTerrorism20050301.asp | Jul 21 18:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Be with you - Nixon" ♫ http://blip.fm/~actah | Jul 21 18:42 | |
| amd-linux | Micro-Soft was or maybe still is "sponsoring" even Interpol. That is frightening. I wonder who else is on their payroll. | Jul 21 18:43 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Jul 21 18:43 | |
| *tessier (n=treed@mail.copilotco.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:44 | |
| *tessier__ (n=treed@mail.copilotco.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:44 | |
| *tessier has quit (Connection reset by peer) | Jul 21 18:44 | |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 18:51 | |
| *yuhong has quit (Client Quit) | Jul 21 18:52 | |
| *desu has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jul 21 19:01 | |
| *desu (n=desu@d82h63.public.uconn.edu) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 19:02 | |
| schestowitz | I won :-D | Jul 21 19:07 |
| Balrog | won what? | Jul 21 19:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | against who? | Jul 21 19:08 |
| schestowitz | Table tennis | Jul 21 19:08 |
| schestowitz | He's a better player | Jul 21 19:08 |
| schestowitz | I was lucky | Jul 21 19:08 |
| schestowitz | Quarter finals | Jul 21 19:08 |
| Balrog | cool. | Jul 21 19:08 |
| schestowitz | I've just seen that smear from a Microsoft employees | Jul 21 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Other Microsoft trolls and employees joined him in the comments with smears | Jul 21 19:14 |
| amd-linux | Did you guys read Vargheses article on the sexist allegations against RMS? | Jul 21 19:15 |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jul 21 19:16 | |
| amd-linux | To me, this flaming shows that the FOSS community is beginning to be bored - the giant is falling, it is safe to assume that FOSS will take over the software world :-) | Jul 21 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Jul 21 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Well.. what's the article's URL | Jul 21 19:17 |
| _Goblin_ | there done... | Jul 21 19:17 |
| amd-linux | I mean both sides - I have not read everything about this issue because I think it is such a small thing | Jul 21 19:17 |
| amd-linux | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26405/1090/ | Jul 21 19:17 |
| _Goblin_ | "A case of not so curious opinion" complete! | Jul 21 19:17 |
| amd-linux | RMS is a unique person who is not a politician, so he is stepping on others' toes from time to time | Jul 21 19:19 |
| amd-linux | but the bloggosphere seems to be glad about the discussion - it fills up the summer gap nicely :-) | Jul 21 19:20 |
| schestowitz | "Bryan Lunduke is also engaged in spreading doubts about Stallman:..." http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14668 | Jul 21 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Here comes the anti-RMS brigagde | Jul 21 19:21 |
| schestowitz | They found their excuse | Jul 21 19:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "A case of not so curious opinion" - http://tinyurl.com/ln9g3h #microsoft #vista #windows #linux #foss #xp | Jul 21 19:21 | |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: indeed | Jul 21 19:21 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.203.55.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 19:21 | |
| schestowitz | ANd now I have a group of Microsoft employees smearing me too | Jul 21 19:21 |
| Omar87 | Hi | Jul 21 19:21 |
| amd-linux | well, yeah - all these young Jedis should not forget that they would be nada without RMS and Torvalds | Jul 21 19:21 |
| schestowitz | "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." | Jul 21 19:22 |
| schestowitz | --Winston Churchill | Jul 21 19:22 |
| amd-linux | what about MS employees? You closed the comments so this should not be an issue anymore? | Jul 21 19:22 |
| schestowitz | I'd have to do more Comes soon... | Jul 21 19:22 |
| amd-linux | did you read my Interpol link | Jul 21 19:23 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: been quiet on the troll's front | Jul 21 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Abusive E-mails declined too | Jul 21 19:23 |
| amd-linux | hehe, it is summer - trolls are on vacation :-) | Jul 21 19:23 |
| schestowitz | I'll just do the news today, some more Comes tomorrow :-) | Jul 21 19:23 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: yeah, like WOng's "on vacation" excuse | Jul 21 19:23 |
| schestowitz | I'm a Microsoft employee... | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | But I'm out of the office now.. | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | So I can troll... | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | I.e. do my 'rela job | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | --MS TE | Jul 21 19:24 |
| amd-linux | http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/speeches/NobleBioTerrorism20050301.asp | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | I honestly don't even think they go to Microsofyt | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | THeir blogs are outside MSDN | Jul 21 19:24 |
| schestowitz | They probabluy 'work' (troll) from home | Jul 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Wong does not have a MS IP address | Jul 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | He uses a GMAIL E-mai, address!!!! | Jul 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Talk about disgusting affiliation | Jul 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | *disguising | Jul 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | THe fact that he responds with a smear is indicate of this being problematic to me | Jul 21 19:25 |
| amd-linux | well, obviously you were hitting some nerves :-) | Jul 21 19:26 |
| amd-linux | "So, at the last minute we called Microsoft - already a partner of INTERPOL in fighting computer virus attacks and fighting sexual exploitation of children over the Internet - in order to help fund the travel costs of a number of our delegations and some other conference costs. " | Jul 21 19:26 |
| amd-linux | that is from the Secretary General of Interpol | Jul 21 19:26 |
| amd-linux | openly admitting that Interpol is being funded by a company. | Jul 21 19:27 |
| schestowitz | http://research.microsoft.com/ | Jul 21 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Does this require Silverlie? | Jul 21 19:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Punched the bare-handedly about four or five times earlier this evening. My hand sort of hurts me a little now.. | Jul 21 19:29 | |
| schestowitz | Someone just mailed me this | Jul 21 19:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Punched the wall bare-handedly about four or five times earlier this evening. My hand sort of hurts me a little now.. | Jul 21 19:30 | |
| mikankun | doesn't look like it requires it | Jul 21 19:32 |
| schestowitz | mikankun: thanks. | Jul 21 19:35 |
| *amd-linux has quit ("Page closed") | Jul 21 19:36 | |
| trmanco | where can I find a tarball of all pdf from comes vs microsoft? | Jul 21 19:49 |
| schestowitz | It used to be a torrent | Jul 21 19:50 |
| schestowitz | We need to transcribe more | Jul 21 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft tried to 'invalidate' them by illegitimising the site | Jul 21 19:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Chairs in Redmond will not like this one: http://ping.fm/YDNEk | Jul 21 19:54 | |
| trmanco | I can't find them :| | Jul 21 19:55 |
| schestowitz | There are 3+ mirrors | Jul 21 19:55 |
| schestowitz | THey aren't going anywhere | Jul 21 19:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT @schestowitz Chairs in Redmond will not like this one: http://ping.fm/YDNEk #windows #microsoft #vista #xp #7 #linux | Jul 21 19:56 | |
| schestowitz | BTW, please stay polite in IRC | Jul 21 19:56 |
| schestowitz | Our foes monitor it | Jul 21 19:56 |
| schestowitz | WIth or without logs | Jul 21 19:56 |
| schestowitz | "CJ" for example was here (he worked for Microsoft) and now he participates with other Microsofters in s smear campaign against BN where he quotes IRC.... and they pass it around COLA and other places | Jul 21 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft profits are expected to decline < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1469001/microsoft-profits-expected-decline > | Jul 21 19:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh, microsoft is pretty shitty stock though | Jul 21 19:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | if I was an investment manager, I could never recommend it to my clients | Jul 21 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Even if they bribe you to? | Jul 21 20:00 |
| schestowitz | You know, firms like Moody's were caught doign that | Jul 21 20:00 |
| schestowitz | They sell recommendation | Jul 21 20:00 |
| Omar87 | Hi there. | Jul 21 20:00 |
| schestowitz | And they sell mocking of your rival's stock | Jul 21 20:00 |
| schestowitz | FraudStreet(R) Services... | Jul 21 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: some of your remarks, guys, are being used to discredit the site | Jul 21 20:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: they'd have to bribe me with an awful lot | Jul 21 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Please be civil here at all times. | Jul 21 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They don't quote all of us and they also quote some of the trolls, but still.... | Jul 21 20:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft just happens to have an awful lot | Jul 21 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Not really | Jul 21 20:02 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Execuse me? | Jul 21 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Why would it borrow money? | Jul 21 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: don't curse trolls | Jul 21 20:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | remember, I take bribes in unmarked hundreds. | Jul 21 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Ignore them | Jul 21 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Not you specifically | Jul 21 20:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | $500k minimum | Jul 21 20:02 |
| schestowitz | It was a group that went into a swear-fight | Jul 21 20:02 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: When did I do that? | Jul 21 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Troll love threatening and provoking to collect counter attack (defense) | Jul 21 20:03 |
| schestowitz | It's like when someone tosses an egg on Prescott and then makes him punch | Jul 21 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: when there were trolls in IRC | Jul 21 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Best to always ignore them | Jul 21 20:03 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Okay, I won't curse them anymore, I promise. | Jul 21 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. I learned this the hard way... | Jul 21 20:04 |
| schestowitz | We're monitored closely now because we expose lots of things | Jul 21 20:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: see, if microsoft pays me $500k right now | Jul 21 20:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | I will launch a large smear campaign against you | Jul 21 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I know :-) | Jul 21 20:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | HEAR THAT MICROSOFT, ITS ONLY HALF A MILLION | Jul 21 20:06 |
| Balrog | smear campaigns usually fail, Diablo-D3 | Jul 21 20:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I dont seem to be getting any email :< | Jul 21 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft paid $15000 for Mac smears | Jul 21 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Offered to Mac bloggers | Jul 21 20:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'No more CCTV', cries top CCTV cop http://ping.fm/CFuBJ | Jul 21 20:07 | |
| schestowitz | I can find you the cite | Jul 21 20:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | Seriously, I'm good at smear campaigns | Jul 21 20:07 |
| schestowitz | THey also paid $200 for professors to mention Microsoft products | Jul 21 20:07 |
| schestowitz | It was in the news in the 90s | Jul 21 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: you already smeared us before | Jul 21 20:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | I could launch a thousand twitters at a drop of a hat | Jul 21 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Did you remove that smear? | Jul 21 20:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: at no point did I smear you | Jul 21 20:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | I merely stated you go to extremes. | Jul 21 20:08 |
| schestowitz | You did | Jul 21 20:08 |
| schestowitz | No, you lied | Jul 21 20:08 |
| schestowitz | You could have asked for evidence | Jul 21 20:08 |
| *skjg has quit ("Page closed") | Jul 21 20:08 | |
| Diablo-D3 | I also stated you had a ddos. | Jul 21 20:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | I also connected the two for my thousands of readers. | Jul 21 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I didn't DDOS myself . That'\s where you lied | Jul 21 20:08 |
| schestowitz | And TuxMachines referenced you | Jul 21 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | maybe tuxmachines is microsoft ran! oh noes! | Jul 21 20:09 |
| schestowitz | You celebrated the DDOS. | Jul 21 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Tux Machines is very trustworthy | Jul 21 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | *gasp!* | Jul 21 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | maybe you work for microsoft! | Jul 21 20:09 |
| schestowitz | My favourtie Linux site | Jul 21 20:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | it all makes sense now! | Jul 21 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, Microsoft is behind pay,ments | Jul 21 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats the story of their life | Jul 21 20:10 |
| schestowitz | I figured if they are pressed towards bankruptcy they'd be pressured and pay faster ;-) | Jul 21 20:10 |
| schestowitz | My role at Microsoft is to criticise it | Jul 21 20:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I mean, really, its not like you can google my name with site:microsoft.com thrown in and find pages with my name on it | Jul 21 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Reverse psychology | Jul 21 20:10 |
| schestowitz | By showing their criminal deeds I improve their image... | Jul 21 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Wha??? | Jul 21 20:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | wait, I think you cant | Jul 21 20:11 |
| schestowitz | You don't have a name | Jul 21 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Jul 21 20:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | I do have a name | Jul 21 20:11 |
| schestowitz | You do.. | Jul 21 20:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | /whois me more | Jul 21 20:11 |
| schestowitz | P**k M*d | Jul 21 20:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | wait, wtf? | Jul 21 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Not to disclose it publicly | Jul 21 20:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | apparently you _can_ find my name on microsoft's website | Jul 21 20:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | I stand corrected. | Jul 21 20:12 |
| MinceR | disregard the number of *-s :> | Jul 21 20:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Patrick+McFarland+site%3Amicrosoft.com&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Jul 21 20:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow, I should mention this on my blog | Jul 21 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Whottt? | Jul 21 20:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | it'll give me street cred and shit | Jul 21 20:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | "Possible Ex-Microsoft Employee says .NET sucks" | Jul 21 20:13 |
| MinceR | lol | Jul 21 20:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'll be so rich via ad views! | Jul 21 20:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: btw, why the fuck aren't you running ads on BN | Jul 21 20:14 |
| schestowitz | No credibility | Jul 21 20:14 |
| schestowitz | And it doesn't pay | Jul 21 20:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats no excuse! | Jul 21 20:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Jul 21 20:14 |
| MinceR | i think you should put "Possible Ex-Microsoft Employee" on your calling card | Jul 21 20:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | you get more page views than I do | Jul 21 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Shane got $50/month and paid most of it to the host | Jul 21 20:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I make like $100 a month | Jul 21 20:14 |
| MinceR | perhaps with the "Possible" part emphasized | Jul 21 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Ad revenues are myths | Jul 21 20:15 |
| schestowitz | Esp. in tech sites | Jul 21 20:15 |
| schestowitz | Techies don't click ads, let alone see any | Jul 21 20:15 |
| schestowitz | Esp. Linux ones... | Jul 21 20:15 |
| schestowitz | BN is an entity that's no business. | Jul 21 20:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: yet | Jul 21 20:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont get paid by click | Jul 21 20:16 |
| schestowitz | No, ever | Jul 21 20:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | so your entire argument is flawed | Jul 21 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: is that really your name? | Jul 21 20:17 |
| schestowitz | And: was that a different Microsoft guy with the same name"? | Jul 21 20:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, thats really my name | Jul 21 20:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I have no clue if thats me on microsoft's site | Jul 21 20:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | its probably some microsoft smear campaign | Jul 21 20:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | its clever, I'll give them that | Jul 21 20:18 |
| schestowitz | I'm exposed, eh? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=schestowitz+site%3Amicrosoft.com&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 Microsoft harvests libel about me | Jul 21 20:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: seriously though | Jul 21 20:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | I've been insulting microsoft on the internet longer than you have | Jul 21 20:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | if anything, you're a noob | Jul 21 20:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It's amazing how much libel about me I find by searching "schestowitz" in microsoft.com http://ping.fm/0HhyG [Lies warning] | Jul 21 20:21 | |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, you're attacking the right company, but you really need to start automating this stuff | Jul 21 20:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | you need something like slashcode | Jul 21 20:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/ <- racist site according to LXer | Jul 21 20:22 |
| schestowitz | People's summer boredom is troublign | Jul 21 20:22 |
| _Goblin_ | Diablo-D3 - Why do you need to attack anyone.? The truth will out since in my honest held opinion Linux/FOSS is the far better system. | Jul 21 20:22 |
| schestowitz | "You! You sexist! THAT sexist... Roy does this... Ballmer goes mad..." | Jul 21 20:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Goblin_: because they attacked first | Jul 21 20:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | its merely a counterattack | Jul 21 20:23 |
| schestowitz | I suppose most people missed the accusations against Phoronix.... | Jul 21 20:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | the truth is not enough to win | Jul 21 20:23 |
| _Goblin_ | Diablo-D3: People will come over to FOSS if and when they are ready. I think we need to maintain the moral highground | Jul 21 20:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | its who can scream the loudest | Jul 21 20:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Goblin_: moral shmoral | Jul 21 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Keep your Linux skills | Jul 21 20:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | you cant win against microsoft that way | Jul 21 20:23 |
| schestowitz | They will be valuable in time to come... | Jul 21 20:23 |
| _Goblin_ | Firefox is. | Jul 21 20:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | firefox doesnt really give a shit about windows, to be fair | Jul 21 20:24 |
| _Goblin_ | I can't remember any ff advocates shouting about the browser.. | Jul 21 20:24 |
| _Goblin_ | it gained popularity because its better than IE | Jul 21 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Lots of mass-replacing of gear and software.. unemployed MCSEs... | Jul 21 20:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Goblin_: no | Jul 21 20:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | it gained popularity because it was first | Jul 21 20:24 |
| schestowitz | What is an MCSE in an industry without hamburgers..? | Jul 21 20:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | netscape had a browser first | Jul 21 20:24 |
| _Goblin_ | what, in the face of a prebundled IE on a mainstream OS? | Jul 21 20:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | firefox is a descendant of that browser. | Jul 21 20:25 |
| _Goblin_ | when that happened FF should have been wiped out. | Jul 21 20:25 |
| _Goblin_ | it wasnt because its better. | Jul 21 20:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, msie is actually quite buggy | Jul 21 20:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | most people arent using it anymore because a lot of sites dont work right in it | Jul 21 20:25 |
| _Goblin_ | instead of "attack" it should be "highlight" | Jul 21 20:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | msie was never popular | Jul 21 20:26 |
| _Goblin_ | if FOSS is doing something better highlight it. | Jul 21 20:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | even the stats people like to tout saying msie was, they're largely faked | Jul 21 20:26 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin_: Diablo-D3 lied about us, saying we DDOSed ourselves !!\ | Jul 21 20:26 |
| MinceR | i remember that | Jul 21 20:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | its easy for microsoft to start hitting lots of popular sites running public surveys on browser usage | Jul 21 20:26 |
| schestowitz | And used the F* word IIRC to celebrate the attacks | Jul 21 20:26 |
| _Goblin_ | Ah....I must admit I didn't like the way he was claiming to be a l33t linux user a few days ago. | Jul 21 20:26 |
| _Goblin_ | I remember being sarcastic to him... | Jul 21 20:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: let it go already, the article was never that bad | Jul 21 20:27 |
| MinceR | actually it was | Jul 21 20:27 |
| schestowitz | I'd be careful with those here who pretend to be friends. | Jul 21 20:27 |
| _Goblin_ | I must be a good judge of IRC character. | Jul 21 20:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Goblin_: I havent been a "l33t" linux user for over a decade | Jul 21 20:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: you should, however, take my advice | Jul 21 20:27 |
| schestowitz | The news is bloody boring today | Jul 21 20:27 |
| schestowitz | There's NOTHINGof substance.. not even for Apple/MS | Jul 21 20:28 |
| _Goblin_ | yep... | Jul 21 20:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: your site looks like something that'd be for 9/11 truthers | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | I should do more COmes | Jul 21 20:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: build a new one. | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: no, that's ours | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | ours | Jul 21 20:28 |
| _Goblin_ | I'm going to watch National lampoons Animal House. | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | schestowitz.com has some polical content in the blog | Jul 21 20:28 |
| _Goblin_ | damn funny film. | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | I became more interested in politics recently | Jul 21 20:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: no, I mean bn's | Jul 21 20:28 |
| _Goblin_ | just got to wait for the kids to go to bed....not suitable and all that. | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | It was all about tech and personal stuff (including esearch) before | Jul 21 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Mary Jo pretends it's all fine and dandy with Microsoft code: Microsoft's Linux code release: Not all fear and loathing in Linux land http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3414 | Jul 21 20:34 |
| schestowitz | She should read Groklaw | Jul 21 20:34 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin_: in your new twitter avatar you look like a cowboy | Jul 21 20:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz "BN a Trojan site!!" it's like n.koreans being told s.korean magazines will poison them if they touch them | Jul 21 20:36 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] f playing catch with a, throwing ragdoll. she just caught the dolly, reliably! and she's learning to throw properly too! | Jul 21 20:38 | |
| schestowitz | Wow. Major news... http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6800/1/ | Jul 21 20:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Trojan' for truth, @davidgerard | Jul 21 20:39 | |
| *sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 20:39 | |
| sebsebseb | hi | Jul 21 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Hi there. | Jul 21 20:41 |
| schestowitz | IP masked, good. | Jul 21 20:41 |
| schestowitz | I had to rub it off manually this morning. | Jul 21 20:41 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah I saw you had done to the other one to | Jul 21 20:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] and now freda's catching and throwing a blowup cbeebies blob ball reliably! my daughter, her every trivial developmental step is fascinating | Jul 21 20:42 | |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well I used IRC for ages with it showing, but in public logs hmm | Jul 21 20:42 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: anyway fun to have a cloak | Jul 21 20:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | [04:01:08] <schestowitz> I had to rub it off manually this morning. | Jul 21 20:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | see, its stuff like that that lets microsoft quote you out of context to make you look bad | Jul 21 20:44 |
| MinceR | then we'll have to quote them letter by letter, each out of context... oh wait, we don't need to | Jul 21 20:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] more chairs break, @_goblin http://bit.ly/Q4bZy | Jul 21 20:46 | |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: you can quote me out of context on many things | Jul 21 20:46 |
| schestowitz | I can do that to Microsoft employees too | Jul 21 20:46 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't make it correct | Jul 21 20:46 |
| schestowitz | I rubbed off an IP to protect privacy, that's all | Jul 21 20:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | it makes it funny as hell, though | Jul 21 20:47 |
| _Goblin_ | Diablo-D3: I think its comments like yours about "attacking" Microsoft that make people quote this chat room. | Jul 21 20:47 |
| _Goblin_ | I dont think anyone would be here if we didnt have an honest held belief that FOSS/Linux was the better platform. | Jul 21 20:47 |
| schestowitz | It's IRC | Jul 21 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Not a formal letter | Jul 21 20:47 |
| _Goblin_ | I just wish we would get a Windows user here with an honest held belief who would discuss sensibly. | Jul 21 20:48 |
| _Goblin_ | they seem few and far between sadly. | Jul 21 20:48 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin_: there's a channel for them on this network | Jul 21 20:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Goblin_: let them quote it | Jul 21 20:49 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.startcom.org/?p=186 | Jul 21 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Why does LT link to it? Not about Linux but a Linux blog | Jul 21 20:49 |
| schestowitz | It's miserable when they quote from IRC | Jul 21 20:50 |
| schestowitz | It's is more miserable when they quote chats/newsgroups or comments | Jul 21 20:50 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: anyway thanks regarding hostname thing | Jul 21 20:50 |
| schestowitz | And it's far worse then they quote ANY arbitrary person/troll | Jul 21 20:50 |
| schestowitz | To claim, for example, that Boycott Novell "calls for the death of Microsoft employees" | Jul 21 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Based on troll comments | Jul 21 20:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Finally back in my apartment. Will return to my Brother's tomorrow. Caught in a flame war with a nut-case called Jon W(r)ong :-( | Jul 21 20:51 | |
| schestowitz | Their new spiel is that BN is sexist | Jul 21 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Jul 21 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Cause some arbitrary people in IRC made some sexist remarks at some stage | Jul 21 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Jonathan Wrong from Microsoft. | Jul 21 20:52 |
| *maco (n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 20:52 | |
| maco | desu: women are retarded at computers, huh? | Jul 21 20:53 |
| schestowitz | I'm quote in Chinese news.. http://www.dgshi.cn/content/200907/211233.html | Jul 21 20:53 |
| schestowitz | *quoted | Jul 21 20:53 |
| schestowitz | 东莞市 | Jul 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | maco: hi maco, maybe you seen me on IRC before | Jul 21 20:54 |
| _Goblin_ | I wonder if Mr Wong will respond to me? | Jul 21 20:54 |
| desu | maco: not all. but most are. | Jul 21 20:54 |
| _Goblin_ | desu: I wouldnt let my wife hear you say that.... | Jul 21 20:54 |
| schestowitz | "What kind of state arrests people for what they read? A tyrannical one." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-may-aug.html#20%20July%202009%20%28UK%20arrests%20people%20for%20what%20they%20read%29 | Jul 21 20:54 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin_: Wrong shots himself in the foot | Jul 21 20:55 |
| maco | i can think of a few thousand competent sysadmins and developers in linuxchix, devchix, codechix, ubuntu-women, debian-women, and well...then there are the women like Valerie Aurora (aka Val Henson) and me, with our names in the kernel changelog... | Jul 21 20:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I have a copy of communication revolution sitting on my desk | Jul 21 20:55 |
| schestowitz | he's raising awareness of MS TEs who trot blogs | Jul 21 20:55 |
| _Goblin_ | schestowitz: ? | Jul 21 20:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: why do I never get arrested :< | Jul 21 20:55 |
| schestowitz | That ought to make them more visible and AstroTurfing known | Jul 21 20:55 |
| desu | maco: i never said ALL are retarded... | Jul 21 20:55 |
| _Goblin_ | ah | Jul 21 20:55 |
| schestowitz | In a way, it's more negative publicity for them | Jul 21 20:55 |
| MinceR | i'm reading byfield's sexism rant now | Jul 21 20:55 |
| _Goblin_ | sorry....I will try in keep up... | Jul 21 20:55 |
| MinceR | it's... sad. | Jul 21 20:56 |
| _Goblin_ | *to | Jul 21 20:56 |
| schestowitz | I have a complaint filed with the FTC about it | Jul 21 20:56 |
| sebsebseb | maco: oh you have contributed to the Linux kernel? | Jul 21 20:56 |
| maco | desu: i'd contend that there's not a difference in computer literacy between men and women. most of each are incompetent outside their narrow field | Jul 21 20:56 |
| _Goblin_ | I have a bundle for them...Its my list of "gifters" who never declared. | Jul 21 20:56 |
| maco | sebsebseb: yes, fixed my sound driver | Jul 21 20:56 |
| MinceR | he tries to disguise the fact that his argument has no legs by jumping right into the rant and quoting the text he's ranting about only on the second page. | Jul 21 20:56 |
| _Goblin_ | I kept their names off my blog... | Jul 21 20:56 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin_: any we don't know about? | Jul 21 20:56 |
| _Goblin_ | yep | Jul 21 20:57 |
| schestowitz | It's easy to miss those who didn't blog | Jul 21 20:57 |
| sebsebseb | maco: by contributing to the actsaul kernel code? | Jul 21 20:57 |
| _Goblin_ | I have over 30 | Jul 21 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Thanks, I'll keep an eye on openbytes | Jul 21 20:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Who is that guy on your current avatar? | Jul 21 20:57 | |
| maco | sebsebseb: alsa is part of the kernel, yes | Jul 21 20:57 |
| _Goblin_ | from various proprietary firms. | Jul 21 20:57 |
| MinceR | it makes me wonder why anyone even read byfield before. | Jul 21 20:57 |
| sebsebseb | maco: oh right cool | Jul 21 20:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: read privmsg | Jul 21 20:58 |
| sebsebseb | maco has a point though, people aren't good at everything when it comes to a computer, as a result certain aspects they really won't be good at that | Jul 21 20:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Just saw your twit on #BN! - Its me! | Jul 21 20:58 | |
| desu | maco: from what i've seen around me, most of the computing industry is composed up of men... i only have ~15% female teachers at my university... | Jul 21 20:58 |
| MinceR | byfield's rant is just like this: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=108211180&sid=1 | Jul 21 20:58 |
| sebsebseb | sadly it's true that when it comes to more technical computer stuff, things are rather male dominated | Jul 21 20:59 |
| desu | no offense, there may be many women who're much better than most men at computing, but when you're counting numbers, women are outdone by men | Jul 21 20:59 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin_: cowboy in England ::p | Jul 21 20:59 |
| _Goblin_ | more....outlaw... | Jul 21 20:59 |
| maco | some people can code up a storm but get confused as all hell if you give them a graphical app and tell them to use it. some are the other way around. | Jul 21 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Ah.. | Jul 21 21:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Do you think there is a relationship between Linux and goatee beards? :) | Jul 21 21:00 | |
| *schestowitz has no goatee | Jul 21 21:00 | |
| schestowitz | If I grow one, it's blond | Jul 21 21:00 |
| sebsebseb | maco: true some people don't like GUI | Jul 21 21:00 |
| _Goblin_ | maybe its slackware and goatees then. ;) | Jul 21 21:01 |
| maco | oh and Muttley, "are they hot?" is not the correct response to Debian Women being mentioned | Jul 21 21:01 |
| _Goblin_ | At least when I visit manchester roy, you will have a frame of reference if we meet up for a drink! | Jul 21 21:01 |
| _Goblin_ | I wont wear the hat though...I promise. | Jul 21 21:02 |
| maco | are you looking at somethng as narrow as 'hackers' or something broader? it probably approaches 50% when you include digital animators, graphic designers, testers, sysadmins, etc | Jul 21 21:02 |
| *ml2mst (n=marti@84.26.87.185) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 21:02 | |
| schestowitz | Hey | Jul 21 21:03 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin_: sure. | Jul 21 21:03 |
| ml2mst | _goblin_: fun :-) | Jul 21 21:03 |
| _Goblin_ | Or if youre down London way....you can pop in...the wifes a great cook! | Jul 21 21:04 |
| _Goblin_ | For the MS faithful: That was not sexist, she actually is...she used to be a chef... | Jul 21 21:04 |
| *cj (i=cjac@173-10-126-202-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 21:04 | |
| cj | schestowitz: have you signed up yet? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1213572 | Jul 21 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | cj: heh I am still not an ubuntuforms member, after all this time, as in using it since second release in 2005 | Jul 21 21:05 |
| sebsebseb | or did I do some old account that I forgot about, don't think so | Jul 21 21:05 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, you get debian now? | Jul 21 21:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: my twit on #BN? that's interesting. A new feature? | Jul 21 21:06 | |
| sebsebseb | fewa: nope, plus I get the impression with Debian it's all about stability, rather than the greatest stuff | Jul 21 21:06 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, debian has both, and debian stable is more up to date than both hardy and intrepid | Jul 21 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Thanks for the smears, cj , why are you here? | Jul 21 21:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: logged on to #BN on my Fedora Box (KDE/Konversation) ;-) | Jul 21 21:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Yeah its a feature where all of BN contacts on Twitter are broadcast into the channel. Its a nice feature. | Jul 21 21:07 | |
| sebsebseb | fewa: Jauntey Jackalope is currently the latest release | Jul 21 21:07 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, Debian sid is always more up to date than ubuntu as ubuntu simply copies from debian wholesale, without doing any debugging | Jul 21 21:07 |
| maco | s/e// | Jul 21 21:07 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: yep I heard that, they pretty much use the Debian repo, with some changes to it of course | Jul 21 21:07 |
| maco | karmic's frozen for alpha 3 | Jul 21 21:07 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, Debian stable is more up to date than Jaunty on all but the most core things | Jul 21 21:07 |
| fewa | such as the linux kernel | Jul 21 21:08 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, and Debian testing is always more up to date than Ubuntu | Jul 21 21:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: yes I guess there is a relationship between Linux and Goatees :-) | Jul 21 21:08 | |
| maco | stable? really? ubuntu syncs from sid | Jul 21 21:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres a relation between microsft and goatse.cx | Jul 21 21:08 |
| *Diablo-D3 coughs | Jul 21 21:08 | |
| maco | gnome and kde get packaged directly, before they even hit debian | Jul 21 21:08 |
| fewa | maco, but Ubuntu freezes for months before the release | Jul 21 21:08 |
| fewa | and stops syncing | Jul 21 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Iranian consumers boycott Nokia for 'collaboration' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/14/nokia-boycott-iran-election-protests > | Jul 21 21:09 |
| maco | debian import freeze is after 2 months i think | Jul 21 21:09 |
| sebsebseb | maco: when's alpha 3 coming out? | Jul 21 21:09 |
| fewa | maco, Canonical only has 1 person working on all of KDE | Jul 21 21:09 |
| maco | feature freeze is 11 weeks before release, i believe | Jul 21 21:09 |
| maco | fewa: yes, i know, that's Riddell | Jul 21 21:09 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: you mean the KDE 3 version don't you? | Jul 21 21:09 |
| maco | sebsebseb: next week i guess | Jul 21 21:09 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, testing has KDE 4 | Jul 21 21:09 |
| maco | sebsebseb: there is no kde3 version of kubuntu anymore | Jul 21 21:09 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, and KDE 4 in ubuntu is _really_ buggy | Jul 21 21:09 |
| sebsebseb | maco: the ISO is still there | Jul 21 21:09 |
| sebsebseb | maco: there's a remix | Jul 21 21:10 |
| maco | thats 8.04 | Jul 21 21:10 |
| maco | ooooh the remix | Jul 21 21:10 |
| maco | thats not a canonical thing at all | Jul 21 21:10 |
| sebsebseb | maco: I read it's semi offical | Jul 21 21:10 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: yeah I don't like KDE 4 at all, except for some of those apps that I will run in Gnome anyway | Jul 21 21:11 |
| *sebsebseb Long live KDE 3! | Jul 21 21:11 | |
| sebsebseb | newer is not always better, which is shown by that KDE 4 thing, when you look at it overall, and compare it to KDE 3 | Jul 21 21:12 |
| maco | sebsebseb: well remix means its got all official packages, just not necessarily main ones | Jul 21 21:12 |
| maco | hahah i haaaaaaaaaaaaate kde3 | Jul 21 21:12 |
| sebsebseb | I hate something about Ubuntu 9.04 | Jul 21 21:12 |
| sebsebseb | hate it so much | Jul 21 21:12 |
| maco | it always made me run back to gnome. the configuration dialogs were just brain overload. kde4's so much more usable. and plasma's pretty | Jul 21 21:13 |
| sebsebseb | yeah the no shutdown and logout in system menu, because of their edited version of fusa | Jul 21 21:13 |
| sebsebseb | and only way to get it back in the menu, is if remove fusa, so if want both features hmm | Jul 21 21:13 |
| maco | thats because duplicating things like that tends to cause confusion | Jul 21 21:13 |
| sebsebseb | it's annoying when they remove a feature which I have been using since the second release | Jul 21 21:13 |
| ml2mst | Matter of personal preference, I LOVE KDE4 ;-) | Jul 21 21:14 |
| sebsebseb | maco: well the upstream Gnome version of fusa, is just an account switcher, with shut down and logout still being in the system menu | Jul 21 21:14 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, but Ubuntu's lousey packaging of KDE4 shouldn't be your deciding factor | Jul 21 21:14 |
| maco | ubuntu does that differently because well....why the hell should log-out-and-switch and log-out be separate? | Jul 21 21:15 |
| sebsebseb | maco: well in that case, it should all be in the system menu :) | Jul 21 21:15 |
| maco | the system menu would get huge if that was the case :P | Jul 21 21:15 |
| maco | the system menu needs to shrink. dramatically. | Jul 21 21:16 |
| maco | the preferences menu is HUGE | Jul 21 21:16 |
| maco | doesnt even fit on 1280x800 | Jul 21 21:16 |
| fewa | if the ubuntu account switcher code is clean i think it should be merged upsteam | Jul 21 21:16 |
| fewa | but i doubt Canonical has submitted it | Jul 21 21:16 |
| sebsebseb | now basically what they done is, made shut down and logging out into this fancy feature, with the icon, that they are also using for Pidgin status. what has Pidgin got to do with switching users or logging out or shutting down? nothing | Jul 21 21:16 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, exactly | Jul 21 21:16 |
| _Goblin_ | hooray.........a retraction of sorts from Mr Wong: | Jul 21 21:17 |
| _Goblin_ | "I didn't realize that Linsux.org is not a "Linux community". In fact, upon a second visit to the site, I realize that is is far from being representative of the Linux community. I have updated my blog entry to reflect this fact." | Jul 21 21:17 |
| _Goblin_ | just been posted on my blog. | Jul 21 21:17 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: apparantly Ubuntu's fusa was done by professinoal designers, to me it's this noob feature thing, well Ubuntu is getting most the Linux newbies | Jul 21 21:17 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: and they won't know what is and what isn't in upstream Gnome | Jul 21 21:18 |
| maco | sebsebseb: sure it does | Jul 21 21:18 |
| maco | see when you log out, you are going away | Jul 21 21:18 |
| maco | its about presence | Jul 21 21:18 |
| sebsebseb | yep, but I should really be able to have both features like 8.10, that's fusa, and in the system menu :) | Jul 21 21:18 |
| *conley has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 21:18 | |
| maco | i *think* pidgin is set to away when you switch user | Jul 21 21:18 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, and Canonical has no hesitation to monkey patch their own stuff without any discussion from the maintainers of those systems | Jul 21 21:19 |
| maco | i think upstream ignored the patch | Jul 21 21:19 |
| maco | ive been having a hard time getting simple little string change patches into kde | Jul 21 21:20 |
| fewa | hmm theylaunched the glitorious site | Jul 21 21:20 |
| maco | gitorious | Jul 21 21:20 |
| fewa | which looked like a big step to opening up development | Jul 21 21:20 |
| maco | as in "git" | Jul 21 21:20 |
| *conley (n=conley@c-69-255-117-144.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 21:20 | |
| maco | i thought only amarok had moved over so far | Jul 21 21:20 |
| fewa | and they contributed alot of patches and improvements to gitorious | Jul 21 21:20 |
| fewa | and qt right? | Jul 21 21:21 |
| maco | no idea. i dont have much upstream involvement | Jul 21 21:22 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: I have tried some other distros that used KDE 4 in vm, all looked pretty much the same to me, don't take long and I am off it | Jul 21 21:22 |
| *conley is now known as beard | Jul 21 21:23 | |
| *beard is now known as conley | Jul 21 21:23 | |
| sebsebseb | fewa: if you had said this "sebsebseb, but Ubuntu's lousey packaging of KDE4 shouldn't be your deciding factor" about XFCE, I would be so agreeing with you now, because I have tried other distros in VM that used XFCE, and their default set ups were so better than Xubuntu | Jul 21 21:24 |
| fewa | i havnt really used xfce | Jul 21 21:24 |
| fewa | i use lxde | Jul 21 21:24 |
| fewa | for low-mem | Jul 21 21:24 |
| *sebsebseb wants a distro that comes with loads of good stuff by default, so packages, to themes and desktop backgrounds and even screensavers | Jul 21 21:24 | |
| desu | sebsebseb: you can make one :P | Jul 21 21:24 |
| sebsebseb | desu: I think vectorlinux is the cloest I found so far | Jul 21 21:25 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, why fill it up with endless bloat by default when it only takes a few commands to add what you want? | Jul 21 21:25 |
| sebsebseb | desu: the older Live CD I tried in vm, I was like wow. I coudn't get the later one installed in vm and working properly since something to do with xorg and graphics driver, I want to try it as host | Jul 21 21:25 |
| desu | o.. | Jul 21 21:25 |
| sebsebseb | desu: some people were like to me, oh it's bad, since you get Open Office and Gimp on the delux CD, then I talk to someone in here about it last night, and he made it sound good as well. I can compile/install my own Open Office and Gimp in there, but nah | Jul 21 21:26 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzE4MQ | Jul 21 21:26 |
| sebsebseb | one of there versions is KDE 4 hmm, but the other is using some window manager that looks nice by the screenshot | Jul 21 21:26 |
| fewa | ^^^^^^^^^ | Jul 21 21:26 |
| desu | o... | Jul 21 21:27 |
| *desu will try out vector linux soon | Jul 21 21:27 | |
| sebsebseb | so I may end up using VectorLinux as host for now, when I sort my computer out again, or do Debian maybe, or put on that KDE 3 remix CD as host OS :) Long live KDE 3! | Jul 21 21:27 |
| fewa | best KDE 3.5 would probably be debian lenny | Jul 21 21:28 |
| desu | o.O | Jul 21 21:28 |
| desu | kde3? | Jul 21 21:28 |
| fewa | desu, sebsebseb doesnt have any idea what he is talking about | Jul 21 21:28 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: oh I seen some nice KDE 3 in PCLinuxOS and stuff in vm, sadly they aren't up to date enough at the moment with a 2009 version | Jul 21 21:28 |
| desu | fewa: apparently so | Jul 21 21:28 |
| desu | sebsebseb is a bot! | Jul 21 21:28 |
| sebsebseb | someone dosn't know what I am talking about? | Jul 21 21:29 |
| sebsebseb | or the other guy? | Jul 21 21:29 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz am I a bot? | Jul 21 21:29 |
| desu | D: | Jul 21 21:29 |
| desu | yay, i managed to convince sebsebseb that he's a bot ^_^ | Jul 21 21:29 |
| sebsebseb | not quite :) | Jul 21 21:30 |
| desu | at least made him doubt his existence :/ | Jul 21 21:30 |
| schestowitz | "Strange. ODF still not viewable in BB v5.0.0.90. Any settings to tweak?" http://twitter.com/yoonkit/statuses/2733653963 | Jul 21 21:30 |
| *fewa desu rules | Jul 21 21:30 | |
| sebsebseb | maybe it's true The Matrix | Jul 21 21:30 |
| desu | =3= | Jul 21 21:30 |
| *schestowitz becomes ELIZA | Jul 21 21:30 | |
| sebsebseb | maybe the machines are controlling us and things are like The Matrix | Jul 21 21:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: same old sh1t from W(r)ong :-p | Jul 21 21:31 | |
| desu | D: | Jul 21 21:31 |
| desu | ...what have i started.... | Jul 21 21:31 |
| sebsebseb | heh | Jul 21 21:34 |
| schestowitz | _Hitcham_ will be delighted that "Miggy" comes for a visit.. http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jul-17.html | Jul 21 21:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Before sending a server to a customer, do your research. http://is.gd/1GLT9 | Jul 21 21:39 | |
| ml2mst | Oh dear I am a IRC virgin, can anyone see what I write? | Jul 21 21:43 |
| desu | nope | Jul 21 21:44 |
| ml2mst | Roy requested to use a IRC client. I am using Konversation now ;-) | Jul 21 21:44 |
| ml2mst | Nope? | Jul 21 21:44 |
| ml2mst | LOL :-) | Jul 21 21:44 |
| desu | nope ;/ | Jul 21 21:44 |
| desu | *:/ | Jul 21 21:44 |
| desu | lol | Jul 21 21:44 |
| ml2mst | Ah, not as difficult as I expected :-D | Jul 21 21:45 |
| desu | yes :P | Jul 21 21:46 |
| ml2mst | desu: thanks! | Jul 21 21:49 |
| desu | no probs :P | Jul 21 21:50 |
| maco | desu: by the way, i recommend looking up Ada Lovelace Day posts | Jul 21 21:52 |
| maco | a ton of women were profiled for ALD | Jul 21 21:52 |
| ml2mst | _Goblin_: still here? | Jul 21 21:53 |
| ml2mst | _Goblin_: Jon W(r)ong proved to be an idiot. | Jul 21 21:54 |
| ml2mst | _Goblin_: personal attacks, slander and gossip can't hardly be called "professional". | Jul 21 21:55 |
| desu | maco: i'm sorry if i offended you... i do agree that there are many women who're better at computers than most men.... most of the comments i made that day were only to troll a troll that was trying to troll this channel, and should not be taken seriously... | Jul 21 21:55 |
| maco | pssst apologies aren't supposed to be followed by "if" | Jul 21 21:56 |
| fewa | maco, ? | Jul 21 21:57 |
| maco | i just don't think saying "women are retarded at computers" is going to encourage any women reading those logs to say "hmm...maybe i CAN contribute" | Jul 21 21:57 |
| fewa | maco, now your trolling | Jul 21 21:57 |
| maco | its not as if they're non-public logs | Jul 21 21:57 |
| schestowitz | ml2mst: friends from Microsoft are there in his comments too | Jul 21 21:57 |
| schestowitz | He posted this in COLA to have the Microsoft trolls join the discussion | Jul 21 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Friendly (crowd) to him | Jul 21 21:58 |
| fewa | maco, its not as if there are endless amounts of public logs out there that nobody reads | Jul 21 21:58 |
| trmanco | ml2mst, wow, you're here :-P | Jul 21 21:58 |
| Balrog | ...? | Jul 21 21:58 |
| maco | fewa: no, im just telling him that apologies, when properly done, do not include "if". "i'm sorry *if*..." says "i'm not sorry, but if you want me to pretend..." | Jul 21 21:58 |
| schestowitz | cj (from here in IRC) added to his smears with his own smear job | Jul 21 21:58 |
| schestowitz | He worked for Microsoft at the time | Jul 21 21:58 |
| fewa | maco, the if is a standard way of apoligzying--apparently you dont know english | Jul 21 21:59 |
| ml2mst | trmanco: great to see you too :-) | Jul 21 21:59 |
| maco | fewa: no it is not | Jul 21 21:59 |
| desu | maco: okay, i'll try it again... | Jul 21 21:59 |
| fewa | cause if you apologize when none is wanted than you are an idiot | Jul 21 21:59 |
| maco | "i'm sorry *that* what i said was offensive" is the proper way | Jul 21 21:59 |
| *ugufjhfj (n=ugufjhfj@modemcable213.226-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 21:59 | |
| _Goblin_ | just responded to Mr Wong on my site...to be fair, he took the time to post. | Jul 21 21:59 |
| trmanco | maco, the lady g33k? | Jul 21 21:59 |
| fewa | maco, and anything that needs to be apologized for requires that person be offended | Jul 21 21:59 |
| Balrog | well if it's obvious that what was said is offensive that is the proper way | Jul 21 21:59 |
| desu | i apologise to all those women who were offended by my comments. it wasn't meant to be taken seriously | Jul 21 21:59 |
| maco | also not the way to do it "i'm sorry you took offense" | Jul 21 21:59 |
| desu | maco: better now? | Jul 21 22:00 |
| maco | trmanco: aye | Jul 21 22:00 |
| ml2mst | Indeed Roy requested to use a real IRC client (not the chainserver web thingy) I installed Fedora 10/KDE4 so here I am ;-) | Jul 21 22:00 |
| maco | desu: yes, thank you | Jul 21 22:00 |
| trmanco | wow | Jul 21 22:00 |
| fewa | maco, so now you are just trying to get somebody to kiss your ass | Jul 21 22:00 |
| fewa | maco, which he handsomely did | Jul 21 22:00 |
| _Goblin_ | have I missed something? | Jul 21 22:00 |
| maco | fewa: no, i'm waving about the cluebat ;) | Jul 21 22:00 |
| desu | -.- | Jul 21 22:00 |
| Balrog | what's going on in here...? | Jul 21 22:00 |
| *desu slaps fewa | Jul 21 22:00 | |
| ml2mst | _Goblin_: No, but we have missed you ;-) | Jul 21 22:00 |
| *fewa slaps desu with a large trout | Jul 21 22:01 | |
| desu | the truth is obvious enough already, stop stating it again ¬_¬ | Jul 21 22:01 |
| _Goblin_ | Balrog: I was just thinking the same thing. | Jul 21 22:01 |
| desu | though i had no idea anybody ever read those logs ¬_¬ | Jul 21 22:01 |
| desu | all 9001 lines of it ¬_¬ | Jul 21 22:01 |
| Balrog | I'm sure the trolls do... | Jul 21 22:01 |
| _Goblin_ | Im off for a smoke...things might be clearer when I return. | Jul 21 22:02 |
| fewa | Balrog, then they would be intelligent, which they are not | Jul 21 22:02 |
| Balrog | well the smarter ones | Jul 21 22:02 |
| maco | Balrog: excerpts were posted in a comment on one of the posts | Jul 21 22:02 |
| Balrog | being smart is different from being intelligent :) | Jul 21 22:02 |
| maco | that's how i saw them | Jul 21 22:02 |
| maco | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/19/ms-vs-ukraine-linux-foss/#comment-71025 | Jul 21 22:02 |
| desu | maco: link please? | Jul 21 22:02 |
| Balrog | ahh. I see. | Jul 21 22:02 |
| desu | nvm.. | Jul 21 22:02 |
| Balrog | isn't zatoichi a troll? Or am I wrong? | Jul 21 22:04 |
| Balrog | (anyway, I dislike the use of "the Ukraine" ... "the" shouldn't be there) | Jul 21 22:05 |
| fewa | meh i guess those things were a little of colour | Jul 21 22:05 |
| desu | maco: those comments are taken out of context | Jul 21 22:05 |
| maco | desu: there's a link to the full context. i was reading the chunk where that stuff comes in | Jul 21 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Shields leave KDE ... http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/goodbye-kde-its-been-nice-knowing-you-32816 | Jul 21 22:07 |
| maco | oh god ittoolbox | Jul 21 22:08 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: thanks, you told me | Jul 21 22:08 |
| maco | anyone ever figure out how the hell to delete an account on that stupid site? | Jul 21 22:08 |
| maco | er...kde's not a window manager, silly | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | <Balrog> it's ok, many people make that mistake :) | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | ^Which ain't helping ! | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | That's how I hear the country referred toi | Jul 21 22:09 |
| fewa | yep, people who dont get it: that you can even use kwin in GNOME, etc | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | it TOOL box | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | ;-) | Jul 21 22:09 |
| schestowitz | BSD's diva blogs there | Jul 21 22:10 |
| schestowitz | They have decent blogs | Jul 21 22:10 |
| maco | fewa: i assume he's mixing up "desktop environment" or "session" and "window manager" | Jul 21 22:11 |
| maco | that i use xmonad in kde would surely confuse him | Jul 21 22:11 |
| ml2mst | Schestowitz: I've seen W(r)ong's "contribution" in COLA and responded to his garbage. | Jul 21 22:11 |
| fewa | maco, he should try awesome wm :P | Jul 21 22:12 |
| ml2mst | Schestowitz: IIRC you linked to one of the idiot's posts before. | Jul 21 22:12 |
| ml2mst | Schestowitz: the man is insane and can not me taken serious. | Jul 21 22:12 |
| maco | fewa: thats what my bf uses | Jul 21 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Jason from mono-non bought a Dell: http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/07/09/dude-i-got-a-dell/ | Jul 21 22:13 |
| maco | er wit..no...now he's trying kwin to see what vanilla kde is like. he says kwin, metacity, compiz, xmonad, awesome.... none of them work how he wants by default | Jul 21 22:13 |
| MinceR | poor guy. | Jul 21 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Hey, maco | Jul 21 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Didn't get to chance to say "hi" | Jul 21 22:14 |
| MinceR | dude, i got a big, shiny turd. | Jul 21 22:14 |
| maco | hello | Jul 21 22:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst I think it highlights why posts must be challenged,it doesnt matter if it was intentional or not Linsux(IMO) does not speak for FOSS | Jul 21 22:14 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: no preceding "i"/ | Jul 21 22:14 |
| MinceR | well, it's a dell | Jul 21 22:14 |
| MinceR | (see also: dell logo with s/d/h/) | Jul 21 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Sell Computers? | Jul 21 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't sound so negative. | Jul 21 22:15 |
| *pk_ (n=pk@cpc3-broo3-0-0-cust242.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 22:15 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Dell was among the first to support us | Jul 21 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Among the major OEMs | Jul 21 22:15 |
| MinceR | and they're against us now | Jul 21 22:16 |
| MinceR | just like all the others | Jul 21 22:16 |
| schestowitz | I wish they had said openly what they did with Microsoft in June 2007, one week before Microsoft attacked Linux formally | Jul 21 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Not against | Jul 21 22:16 |
| MinceR | but my main problem with dell is that their build quality sucks like a black hole | Jul 21 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Selling it is helping | Jul 21 22:16 |
| MinceR | and that their support sucks too | Jul 21 22:16 |
| schestowitz | I used Dell in two offices... always worked | Jul 21 22:16 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: paying m$ tax secretly isn't helping | Jul 21 22:17 |
| schestowitz | b0rked HDDs, but all the rest was fine | Jul 21 22:17 |
| *neighborlee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 21 22:17 | |
| MinceR | charging extra for linux isn't helping either | Jul 21 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Even in 2003 when SuSE was a lot more primitive with hw support | Jul 21 22:17 |
| maco | MinceR: dell charges ~ $50 less for ubuntu than windows | Jul 21 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Dell worked with it out of the box | Jul 21 22:17 |
| MinceR | maco: there was an analysis of that | Jul 21 22:17 |
| schestowitz | My other Dell box at MCC ran Ubuntu 4.10 | Jul 21 22:17 |
| maco | except when they screw up and put a sale on some hardware component on windows | Jul 21 22:17 |
| schestowitz | maco: true | Jul 21 22:17 |
| fewa | maco, but they dont sell machines with Ubuntu realy anymore | Jul 21 22:17 |
| MinceR | iirc they offered a free ram/whatever upgrade for windows only | Jul 21 22:17 |
| schestowitz | SOmetiems the configurator of Dell goes nuts | Jul 21 22:18 |
| fewa | maco, go to http://dell.com/ubuntu dropped desktop, low end laptop | Jul 21 22:18 |
| MinceR | and they've only ever offered 1 laptop with ubuntu | Jul 21 22:18 |
| MinceR | obviously some low-end crap | Jul 21 22:18 |
| schestowitz | And then it can show comparable offerings where Linux is the expensive offer | Jul 21 22:18 |
| MinceR | and even that offer was carefully hidden | Jul 21 22:18 |
| fewa | MinceR, now they have a higher-end one | Jul 21 22:18 |
| schestowitz | In servers, Dell messes up the configurator too | Jul 21 22:18 |
| MinceR | so now they have _two_ ubuntu laptop offers? | Jul 21 22:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not ture | Jul 21 22:18 |
| MinceR | wow, that's some great support | Jul 21 22:18 |
| schestowitz | *true | Jul 21 22:18 |
| fewa | MinceR, they dropped the lower end one | Jul 21 22:18 |
| MinceR | oh. | Jul 21 22:18 |
| schestowitz | They offer sub-notebooks | Jul 21 22:18 |
| schestowitz | And they now sell very high-end laptops with Ubuntu | Jul 21 22:19 |
| schestowitz | So at least 2 models IIRC, maybe 3 | Jul 21 22:19 |
| MinceR | at this moment they happen to have such an option? | Jul 21 22:19 |
| schestowitz | XPS also... | Jul 21 22:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Heh? it's crystal clear that "LINSUX" is 100% ANTI-LINUX. And in case you haven't noticed it. I am a HUGE fan of Openbytes ;-) | Jul 21 22:19 | |
| MinceR | if they really cared, they'd offer it as a choice in the configurator | Jul 21 22:19 |
| fewa | o wait two laptops | Jul 21 22:19 |
| MinceR | it runs on all their hardware anyway, doesn't it? | Jul 21 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Linsu*** openly states being anti-Linux | Jul 21 22:19 |
| maco | MinceR: thats what i mean about having a sale | Jul 21 22:19 |
| schestowitz | They send some of their chaps here to 'posion' the channel | Jul 21 22:19 |
| MinceR | and then i didn't even mention the "genuine windows" spam | Jul 21 22:19 |
| MinceR | maco: i see | Jul 21 22:19 |
| maco | when dell first released ubuntu computers i made this blog post. http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com/2007/05/check-it-out.html | Jul 21 22:19 |
| MinceR | maco: well, that shows how much they mean to support us | Jul 21 22:20 |
| fewa | MinceR, that would be a thing, would silence any concerns over tying | Jul 21 22:20 |
| schestowitz | maco: they still ignore OOo requests | Jul 21 22:20 |
| schestowitz | #2 top request | Jul 21 22:20 |
| schestowitz | It would send their spouse Microsoft screaming out the room | Jul 21 22:20 |
| MinceR | still, the 4 hardware failures in 2 years on my dell laptop convinced me not to buy dell again | Jul 21 22:20 |
| maco | MinceR: about laptops isnt true either. there were 2 laptops, 2 desktops, and a netbook over time. right now there are no desktops because theyre about to release a new line of them and they're just clearing stock on the old models | Jul 21 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Office is a much bigger cash cow than Widnows | Jul 21 22:20 |
| *Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.") | Jul 21 22:21 | |
| fewa | maco, and Dell's overview was definitely good, much better than the confusing HP "The Linux command line interface is disabled on this Mini." | Jul 21 22:21 |
| fewa | wtf does that mean? | Jul 21 22:21 |
| MinceR | afaict all major brands are either against us or just don't care. | Jul 21 22:21 |
| MinceR | (and in this case, "don't care" means "obediently display the obligatory m$ ads everywhere") | Jul 21 22:21 |
| maco | MinceR: and it would be *bad* to offer it as a regular choice because a lot of dell's hardware sucks for linux :P dont want people choosing ubuntu because its cheaper and also choosing a non-working webcam. they DO make sense | Jul 21 22:21 |
| maco | itd just be really freaking nice if theyd put ubuntu somewhere VISIBLE | Jul 21 22:22 |
| MinceR | maco: so at any given time up to 2 of their laptops works with linux? i doubt it. | Jul 21 22:22 |
| fewa | maco, _Linux_ visible | Jul 21 22:22 |
| maco | MinceR: they only have like 2 or 3 laptop models | Jul 21 22:22 |
| MinceR | the one i got was never offered with linux, afaik -- yet it worked fully, except for the modem, which i never tried. | Jul 21 22:22 |
| maco | fewa: well they dont offer any other linuxes | Jul 21 22:22 |
| fewa | maco, but its still Linux | Jul 21 22:22 |
| maco | correction: for HOME department, they only have two or three models | Jul 21 22:23 |
| *wayne has quit () | Jul 21 22:23 | |
| maco | they dont offer any of their nice business line stuff with linux :-/ | Jul 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | maco: a friend of mine who hangs out hee sometimes... she bought her mom a Dellbuntu because her mom preferred it | Jul 21 22:23 |
| maco | fewa: yes, but im saying that since ubuntu is the specific linux they're using, itd be nice if it was visible when you visit rather than having to hunt it down | Jul 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | There's a campaign going on to build /perception/ that people would dislike it | Jul 21 22:23 |
| fewa | im sure they have business customers that buy w/ Linux | Jul 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | The 'nightmare stories' (FUD)... to create expectancy and scare Dell too | Jul 21 22:24 |
| fewa | maco, just trying to prevent the confusion of Linux=Ubuntu, or even "wtf is Linux" for someone who uses ubuntu | Jul 21 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Like that news report where the college student whined over Ubuntu from Dell | Jul 21 22:24 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber said she thought it was a fake.. oh, actually it was her daughter | Jul 21 22:24 |
| maco | fewa: guess why my blog says "ubuntu linux"? | Jul 21 22:24 |
| fewa | nothing wrong with them only having one vendor to share support contracts, etc | Jul 21 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Perfect plot to get the zealots | Jul 21 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Perfect plot to get the zealots going | Jul 21 22:24 |
| fewa | Ive read alot of good reviews | Jul 21 22:25 |
| thenixedreport | Btw Roy. | Jul 21 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Dell said in 2008 that they would serve SMB with GNU/Linux in Europe | Jul 21 22:25 |
| maco | my mom's ubuntu computer is 7 or 8 years old. my step brother built it for her, and ive been handling hardware add-ons | Jul 21 22:25 |
| schestowitz | I guess it never materialised | Jul 21 22:25 |
| fewa | on youtube, on the manufactures site | Jul 21 22:25 |
| thenixedreport | New WordPress is available. | Jul 21 22:26 |
| schestowitz | In the strong Linux markets like France and Germany | Jul 21 22:26 |
| maco | SMB? | Jul 21 22:26 |
| thenixedreport | It said to notify the administrator. | Jul 21 22:26 |
| thenixedreport | ;) | Jul 21 22:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: I think you are doing a great yob, by exposing those idiotic trolls. Please never give up. I LOVE openbytes! | Jul 21 22:26 | |
| schestowitz | thenixedreport: yes, I need to sort out the auto-upgrade thing. ping tessier_ | Jul 21 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | hey guys | Jul 21 22:26 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 22:26 |
| fewa | schestowitz, samba? | Jul 21 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | whats the best anti-microsoft blog post that isnt bn's | Jul 21 22:26 |
| schestowitz | fewa: no, WOrdPress | Jul 21 22:26 |
| schestowitz | On two servers where I have blogs it runs smoothly | Jul 21 22:27 |
| schestowitz | The BN server won't do | Jul 21 22:27 |
| fewa | <schestowitz> Dell said in 2008 that they would serve SMB with GNU/Linux in Europe | Jul 21 22:27 |
| schestowitz | I can find it | Jul 21 22:27 |
| schestowitz | I think I can find it | Jul 21 22:27 |
| fewa | maco and I dont know what you are saying | Jul 21 22:27 |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft analysts spread FUD about it later | Jul 21 22:27 |
| schestowitz | IDC or Forrester | Jul 21 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall which | Jul 21 22:28 |
| thenixedreport | I had to do a minor tweak so the auto upgrade would work with my hosting provider. | Jul 21 22:28 |
| fewa | Dell had a ad for Mini + Ubuntu Linux that hit the spot perfectly | Jul 21 22:28 |
| thenixedreport | Mainly a text file setting the PHP version to the latest. | Jul 21 22:28 |
| fewa | if only they would run it | Jul 21 22:28 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: it's not anti-Microsoft | Jul 21 22:28 |
| schestowitz | It's critical of Microsoft | Jul 21 22:28 |
| schestowitz | Based on deeds | Jul 21 22:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know what I mean | Jul 21 22:28 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: Hi | Jul 21 22:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | I need something that isnt bn so I can link to it | Jul 21 22:28 |
| schestowitz | The policement is "anti-criminal"? | Jul 21 22:28 |
| schestowitz | *men | Jul 21 22:28 |
| maco | fewa: at first they listed the ubuntu mini next to the windows ones. now they dont :( | Jul 21 22:28 |
| fewa | maco, they were pressured by Microsoft | Jul 21 22:29 |
| schestowitz | [or policewoman] | Jul 21 22:29 |
| fewa | maco, like how Asus obviously did a back-room deal | Jul 21 22:29 |
| maco | you have to go to dell.com/ubuntu or dell.com/open to find ubuntu stuff now. itd be nice if the "laptops" page had both visible | Jul 21 22:29 |
| schestowitz | tessier_: maybe we can look into autoupgrade again? | Jul 21 22:29 |
| schestowitz | It worked on two other servers where I run WordPress | Jul 21 22:29 |
| schestowitz | I think it's down to server settings somewhere | Jul 21 22:29 |
| maco | i just buy from companies that don't sell windows at all | Jul 21 22:29 |
| fewa | I just put it together myself | Jul 21 22:30 |
| schestowitz | I read these WordPress forums threads with suggestions | Jul 21 22:30 |
| fewa | buy hardware | Jul 21 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: btw, you _do_ use supercache, right? | Jul 21 22:30 |
| thenixedreport | Speaking of hardware. | Jul 21 22:30 |
| fewa | its alot cheaper that way | Jul 21 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: no wp-cache | Jul 21 22:30 |
| thenixedreport | Anyone know where I can get a cheap notebook with ATI graphics? | Jul 21 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | wp-cache sucks | Jul 21 22:30 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | here | Jul 21 22:30 |
| schestowitz | I have supercache | Jul 21 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Just not enabled | Jul 21 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | use it | Jul 21 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | on fully on mode | Jul 21 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | wp-cache is a pos | Jul 21 22:30 |
| schestowitz | "Super' scares me | Jul 21 22:30 |
| maco | fewa: im of the opinion that buying it with linux is slightly better because then its one more OEM sale without windows to counteract the marketshare calculations. buying parts can just be construed as upgrading a windows machine | Jul 21 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Sounds prone to flakiness | Jul 21 22:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: my blog gets more hits than you | Jul 21 22:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | trust me when I say use it. | Jul 21 22:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | I would have never survived being slashdotted with out | Jul 21 22:31 |
| *ml2mst is taking a shower BRB | Jul 21 22:31 | |
| fewa | maco, tying is illegal. also there is http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040 | Jul 21 22:32 |
| thenixedreport | If I get ./ed, I'd have to upgrade hosting providers. | Jul 21 22:32 |
| thenixedreport | :) | Jul 21 22:32 |
| fewa | and market share in sale is irrelevent, its network effects and money | Jul 21 22:32 |
| schestowitz | I keep getting these messages with Microsoft-hostile zealots | Jul 21 22:32 |
| _Goblin_ | "my blog gets more hits than you | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | I don't know how to get rid of it | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Blunt ones... | Jul 21 22:33 |
| _Goblin_ | lol | Jul 21 22:33 |
| trmanco | wong is here? | Jul 21 22:33 |
| fewa | buying a comp with Windows incures a Windows tax to Microsoft | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Later on they get us in trouble | Jul 21 22:33 |
| _Goblin_ | whats your site Diablo? | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Like that "Fink" idiot | Jul 21 22:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Goblin_: adterrasperaspera.com | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | It that's a real name | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Someone just mails me this | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | "To the point, all public institutions (all universities and most | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | schools) and all agencies have to document travels, especially since per | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | diem is paid. It would be possible for an investigator to round up a | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | list of *all* MSFT-paid trips made by state employees. The rats would | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | be mostly a subset of that list. | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | -" | Jul 21 22:33 |
| trmanco | "Before I do that, I would like to ask him: “What on earth is a Microsoft employee doing, hiding in the shadows of an IRC channel in his spare time?“" | Jul 21 22:33 |
| trmanco | _Goblin_, :> | Jul 21 22:33 |
| trmanco | you wrote that | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | "Roy Schestowitz wrote: | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | > > Not sure about "rats"... | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | I would say that a fair number of those that got "free" trips to the US | Jul 21 22:33 |
| schestowitz | paid for by MSFT turn out to be rats. Not to disparage rats, though." | Jul 21 22:33 |
| maco | fewa: dont look at the microsoft part | Jul 21 22:34 |
| maco | fewa: look at the others who say "we wont make $foo for linux because thats on 0.1% of the marketshare, so we don't care" | Jul 21 22:34 |
| trmanco | it's not that low | Jul 21 22:34 |
| fewa | schestowitz, yep, and for example here in washington state a ton of money comes from the gates foundation, which basically dictates how teaching is to be done | Jul 21 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Same with state and church, I think | Jul 21 22:34 |
| schestowitz | I cover this in BN | Jul 21 22:35 |
| trmanco | fortunately, there is more than just the US | Jul 21 22:35 |
| schestowitz | The whole state signs deal with Microsoft | Jul 21 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Or universities | Jul 21 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Curriculum deals | Jul 21 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft bribed professors $200 to mention Microsoft | Jul 21 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it still does | Jul 21 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | $200 is shit though | Jul 21 22:35 |
| fewa | maco, but its simply wrong, lots of ISVs for governments and such produce Linux versions because alot of organizations have deployed Linux. Even Microsoft's number for Linux are much higher | Jul 21 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, thats like what, a few ounces of pot? | Jul 21 22:35 |
| _Goblin_ | trmanco: yep... | Jul 21 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats like a day for an average professor | Jul 21 22:36 |
| maco | fewa: so im saying if we consciously buy machines with linux or tell hardware manufacturers "i'm returning this because there's no linux support"--make it *prominent* that linux is our OS--we get a better shot at having them realize we exist, we're a sizable minority (not insignificant) and maybe actually paying attention to us in decision-making | Jul 21 22:36 |
| trmanco | under what nym? | Jul 21 22:36 |
| fewa | agreed | Jul 21 22:36 |
| fewa | http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple | Jul 21 22:36 |
| _Goblin_ | pass.. | Jul 21 22:36 |
| maco | fewa: yes ive seen. | Jul 21 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | maco: this is why I bough ATI | Jul 21 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | nvidia support is absolute shit | Jul 21 22:36 |
| desu | maco: it still wont work... | Jul 21 22:36 |
| desu | that's what's been happening for quite a few years | Jul 21 22:36 |
| maco | Diablo-D3: this is why i buy intel. they have FOSS drivers. | Jul 21 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | so does AMD. | Jul 21 22:36 |
| *schestowitz thinks he should really stop relying to mail from Microsoft haters | Jul 21 22:36 | |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD is spending money on getting DRI to support r600/700 better than fglrx does | Jul 21 22:37 |
| maco | Diablo-D3: only on the old stuff | Jul 21 22:37 |
| *tessier_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jul 21 22:37 | |
| maco | -ati is FOSS, but fglrx isn't | Jul 21 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD doesnt want to develop drivers, they're not in that business. | Jul 21 22:37 |
| maco | -ati only supports old hardwre | Jul 21 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | They recognize we're better at it than anyone else | Jul 21 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | maco: fglrx is almost dead | Jul 21 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | but I bought ATI because fglrx _does_ work | Jul 21 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | nvidia binary doesnt. | Jul 21 22:37 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, its like in Idiocracy | Jul 21 22:38 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, brought to you by *, get paid | Jul 21 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont care if a driver is binary if the damned thing actually works | Jul 21 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD bought ATI and did what they did, thats just bonus points | Jul 21 22:38 |
| trmanco | -ati works wonderfully here | Jul 21 22:38 |
| fewa | AMD spent money developing for x86-64 | Jul 21 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im on r700, btw | Jul 21 22:38 |
| _Goblin_ | right off to watch National Lampoons Animal House... | Jul 21 22:38 |
| fewa | ATI is still largely a differnt company, right? | Jul 21 22:38 |
| _Goblin_ | back later | Jul 21 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: no | Jul 21 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | all the upper management was fired and so was most of the middle mangement | Jul 21 22:39 |
| fewa | merger is complete | Jul 21 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | all the real employees work for AMD | Jul 21 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | and the ATI name was taken off the ATI building | Jul 21 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | ati.com also redirects to amd.com | Jul 21 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | so yeah, the merger is complete | Jul 21 22:39 |
| schestowitz | They said they would keep the name | Jul 21 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: they didnt | Jul 21 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Almost promised IIRC | Jul 21 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | radeon 5000 is supposed to be the first amd named chip family | Jul 21 22:40 |
| fewa | gets them above the position of Intel on graphics | Jul 21 22:40 |
| schestowitz | Intel is unethical | Jul 21 22:41 |
| schestowitz | "Criminal" even, by definition | Jul 21 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | EVERYONE is unethical | Jul 21 22:41 |
| maco | why? | Jul 21 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Why is the word too strong? | Jul 21 22:41 |
| fewa | they paid OEMs to not buy AMD | Jul 21 22:41 |
| maco | oooh right forgot that | Jul 21 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | they paid for that though | Jul 21 22:41 |
| schestowitz | maco: bribes, bullying, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justice | Jul 21 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD is winning anyhow | Jul 21 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Not really | Jul 21 22:42 |
| fewa | very similar to Microsoft's per-processor sold fees | Jul 21 22:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | intel's market share for x86 is decreasing | Jul 21 22:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | amd's is increasing | Jul 21 22:42 |
| schestowitz | It's said to be gaining some share | Jul 21 22:42 |
| schestowitz | My old laptop used AMD | Jul 21 22:42 |
| maco | they do still take the cake on FOSS drivers though, whether you look at graphics or wireless, theyve got FOSS drivers for all of it | Jul 21 22:42 |
| schestowitz | 400Mhz | Jul 21 22:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | amd also has basically dominated the graphics market | Jul 21 22:42 |
| fewa | Intel was forced to clean room engineer amd64 | Jul 21 22:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: yup | Jul 21 22:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | which was hillarious | Jul 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | maco: true, they also patch Linux a lot | Jul 21 22:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | they implemented it incorrectly on early gen shit too | Jul 21 22:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | I don't care about Intel though | Jul 21 22:43 |
| fewa | but yes Intel provides alot of patches to the Linux kernel | Jul 21 22:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD isn't exactly innocent either | Jul 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | It's like when a kid's dad is a gangster, but the kid must love him anyway | Jul 21 22:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD was formed by former Intel engineers shortly after 8086 came out | Jul 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Intel attacked OLPC with Linux | Jul 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | We could use ARM | Jul 21 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | Intel just makes shit products, they're not really guilty of much though | Jul 21 22:44 |
| maco | schestowitz: intel attacked linux with linux, you mean ;) | Jul 21 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: arm wasnt ready yet | Jul 21 22:44 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, AMD also came from IBM insisting that Intel would not be the only producer of x86 chips when IBM choose that ISA | Jul 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | On server... Poer Blades | Jul 21 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | ARM has only recently become useful | Jul 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | *Power | Jul 21 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: actually, no | Jul 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | maco: no, Windows | Jul 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva was there for goodwill | Jul 21 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: the us military basically told intel to stfu because they wanted a second supplier | Jul 21 22:44 |
| maco | schestowitz: huh? olpc was linux... | Jul 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Intel sells hardware | Jul 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | If the hardware runs AMD, Intel attacks | Jul 21 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: the courts found in AMD's favor when Intel sued them over this because the US Military told them to | Jul 21 22:45 |
| fewa | I dont like Intel's virtical integration | Jul 21 22:45 |
| schestowitz | maco: yes, Intel was anti-OLPC | Jul 21 22:45 |
| fewa | vertical* | Jul 21 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont blame intel for being anti-olpc | Jul 21 22:45 |
| maco | schestowitz: but you just said they attacked olpc with linux | Jul 21 22:45 |
| schestowitz | THey fear cheap computing | Jul 21 22:45 |
| schestowitz | It would ruin them | Jul 21 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | olpc got in bed with microsoft | Jul 21 22:45 |
| schestowitz | They also don't like netbooks | Jul 21 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Now they make them more expensive | Jul 21 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | and negroponte is a fucktard | Jul 21 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Watc language | Jul 21 22:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: btw | Jul 21 22:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple's investment in pa semi is coming to fruition | Jul 21 22:46 |
| MinceR | they've driven a lot of hype by it? | Jul 21 22:46 |
| MinceR | that's all they do anyway | Jul 21 22:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | just like I said two years ago "I wonder why apple doesnt buy pa semi, they have their own ppc core and its ultra lower power, it competes with ARM for larger products where ARM doesnt quite fit" | Jul 21 22:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | then they bought pa semi | Jul 21 22:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | pa semi also has an arm license, they have cortex a8 design thats perfect for future iphones | Jul 21 22:47 |
| MinceR | a piece of sand would be perfect for future iphones | Jul 21 22:47 |
| MinceR | it's not like they can be used for anything interesting anyway. | Jul 21 22:47 |
| MinceR | http://www.mobile-t-mobile.com/uimg/iPhon-vs-Rock.jpg | Jul 21 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: the hardware is powerful | Jul 21 22:48 |
| schestowitz | I'm catching up with some old news... seen this from Carla yet? http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-07-10-025-35-OP-CY | Jul 21 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple just wastes it | Jul 21 22:48 |
| MinceR | exactly | Jul 21 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Thunderbird messed up when I went away | Jul 21 22:48 |
| MinceR | which makes it irrelevant | Jul 21 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | also | Jul 21 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | HURRRRRRRRRR | Jul 21 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow | Jul 21 22:48 |
| *ml2mst is back from the showers, this will probably piss Flatfish off :-) | Jul 21 22:49 | |
| *Diablo-D3 pastes that image in other channels | Jul 21 22:49 | |
| maco | heh been sitting in my rss for a while | Jul 21 22:49 |
| MinceR | the only way you can make use of that hardware is by throwing away the software you've paid for and the warranty you've paid for | Jul 21 22:49 |
| MinceR | and also potentially violating some laws | Jul 21 22:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | well | Jul 21 22:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats why I like android phones | Jul 21 22:49 |
| MinceR | meanwhile the competition gives you devices that do a lot more for less | Jul 21 22:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | it already runs whats essentially what I'd install | Jul 21 22:49 |
| MinceR | i'm considering android | Jul 21 22:50 |
| MinceR | they're doing some native code support | Jul 21 22:50 |
| MinceR | i wonder where that will get | Jul 21 22:50 |
| maco | ugh yeah a la carte tv would be great! syfy, history, comedy central, bbc america: all i need | Jul 21 22:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, it'll get super optimized libs for stuff that actually matters | Jul 21 22:50 |
| MinceR | also, i wonder if one can teach it not to sync with Big Brother HQ | Jul 21 22:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | stuff will still be java oriented though | Jul 21 22:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | although their java impl is damned fast | Jul 21 22:50 |
| MinceR | also, there seem to be third-party projects to make shit actually work | Jul 21 22:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh get this | Jul 21 22:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | I booted android in virtualbox | Jul 21 22:51 |
| MinceR | perhaps we'll even see non-java apis for phone stuff | Jul 21 22:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | holy crap is it fast | Jul 21 22:51 |
| fewa | maco, and ESPN would cast $5/month | Jul 21 22:51 |
| fewa | they currently charge cable companies like $2/m per subscriber | Jul 21 22:51 |
| MinceR | also, does/will openmoko have 3g support at all? | Jul 21 22:52 |
| fewa | while is huge in the cable business | Jul 21 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Jul 21 22:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | I pay $65/mo for 50 channels of analog | Jul 21 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Walter Cronkite dies at 92 < http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118006147.html?categoryid=14&cs=1&ref=bd_tv > | Jul 21 22:52 |
| maco | fewa: ew, sports | Jul 21 22:52 |
| fewa | maco, i dont like sports, just remarking at the economics | Jul 21 22:53 |
| maco | schestowitz: are you just going through last week's RSS? | Jul 21 22:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah really | Jul 21 22:53 |
| fewa | when you have lots of block pricing the economics are interesting | Jul 21 22:53 |
| fewa | because the cable companies refuse to be utilities at delivering channels and instead insist on carefully crafted bundles | Jul 21 22:54 |
| *Diablo-D3 listens to huey lewis and the news - back in time | Jul 21 22:55 | |
| schestowitz | maco: yes, TuxMachines, my favourite site | Jul 21 22:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | hey MinceR hey MinceR | Jul 21 23:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://blackhole.sk/files/images/brick-iphone.preview_0.png | Jul 21 23:03 |
| MinceR | :) | Jul 21 23:03 |
| *maco (n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw) has left #boycottnovell ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") | Jul 21 23:03 | |
| fewa | lawl | Jul 21 23:04 |
| MinceR | the brick is newer than the stone and yet it doesn't do anything new :> | Jul 21 23:04 |
| schestowitz | The brick has another grip | Jul 21 23:07 |
| schestowitz | It's the 3G model of the stone | Jul 21 23:07 |
| MinceR | :) | Jul 21 23:07 |
| schestowitz | iStone is a trap though.. you pay subscription to own it | Jul 21 23:07 |
| schestowitz | If you open it up it self destructs | Jul 21 23:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | mortgage, physics | Jul 21 23:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | you have a point | Jul 21 23:08 |
| *schestowitz has over 100 tabs open in Firefox | Jul 21 23:09 | |
| Diablo-D3 | I have almost 200 across 12 windows | Jul 21 23:09 |
| schestowitz | hardware4linux is back online < http://moustix.dyndns.org/fred/index.php/2009/07/14/35-hardware4linux-is-back-online > | Jul 21 23:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Troy is back at KDE! :-) http://ping.fm/abePs | Jul 21 23:12 | |
| fewa | schestowitz, what was the win32 gui api for UNIX called? | Jul 21 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Empathy is now in Karmic < http://blog.thesilentnumber.me/2009/07/empathy-is-now-in-karmic.html > | Jul 21 23:18 |
| *Krenso (n=Krenso@1.pia.abpl.pl) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 23:19 | |
| schestowitz | Bad rap for Satanic Edition.. http://allforlinux.com/2009/07/say-no-to-ubuntu-satanic-edition/ | Jul 21 23:20 |
| MinceR | oh noes, they dare to not worship jesus christ, say no to them | Jul 21 23:23 |
| schestowitz | A LOT of GPL FUD recently... | Jul 21 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Why Apache is not the bottom of the open source incline < http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4511 > | Jul 21 23:24 |
| schestowitz | All synched and mutually-fueling | Jul 21 23:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | it should be, btw | Jul 21 23:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | cherokee > apache | Jul 21 23:24 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Another Reason I Don’t Like Apple < http://preacherpen.wordpress.com/2009/07/16/another-reason-i-dont-like-apple/ > | Jul 21 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Valid reason | Jul 21 23:25 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jul 21 23:25 |
| MinceR | it's just more proof that crApple really does want to lock-in its users | Jul 21 23:25 |
| MinceR | of course, the fanboys will never learn | Jul 21 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Blind love | Jul 21 23:27 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jul 21 23:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS released http://ping.fm/qi0vz | Jul 21 23:28 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-218-227.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 23:28 | |
| schestowitz | http://linsec.ca/blog/2009/07/16/kerberos-fun/ | Jul 21 23:32 |
| schestowitz | heh. He moved from Mandriva to Red Hat, so he put a red hat on his daughter's head | Jul 21 23:33 |
| MinceR | :) | Jul 21 23:33 |
| balzac | GNU POwAH | Jul 21 23:35 |
| schestowitz | Linux Mail Storage Formats: Mbox vs MailDir < http://www.raiden.net/articles/linux_mail_storage_formats_mbox_vs_maildir/ > | Jul 21 23:36 |
| schestowitz | Hey, balzac | Jul 21 23:36 |
| balzac | hey Roy | Jul 21 23:36 |
| schestowitz | GNu is under attack | Jul 21 23:36 |
| schestowitz | THe GPL smeared and RMS also | Jul 21 23:36 |
| schestowitz | He's a terrible comedian | Jul 21 23:36 |
| balzac | What are the freedom haters up to now? | Jul 21 23:36 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.196.250) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 23:37 | |
| schestowitz | Black Duck, which was founded by a Microsofter and still has another one on boatd spread FUD | Jul 21 23:37 |
| balzac | M$ or open source attack? | Jul 21 23:37 |
| schestowitz | It added CodePlex | Jul 21 23:37 |
| schestowitz | And then said GPL was declining | Jul 21 23:37 |
| schestowitz | WHich is nonsense | Jul 21 23:37 |
| fewa | they want people to be happy with Microsoft ripping them off | Jul 21 23:37 |
| schestowitz | Then all the GPL hater came out shouting death to the GPL | Jul 21 23:37 |
| fewa | instead of using GPL3 | Jul 21 23:37 |
| schestowitz | And RMS' old routine of mocking sexist sects is being spun as RMS being sexist | Jul 21 23:38 |
| tacone | they said they use gpl2 so they won't sue for patent. non sense | Jul 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Jul 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | But.. | Jul 21 23:38 |
| fewa | (if that is what people want them im fine with it, but Microsoft is trying to put veils around peoples eyes) | Jul 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | For the kernel they usually need gplv2 | Jul 21 23:38 |
| balzac | Time for some Peking Duck | Jul 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | gplv2 and v3 don't always mix well | Jul 21 23:38 |
| balzac | GPL haters came out on what forum? | Jul 21 23:39 |
| fewa | GPL2 GPL3 | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | The Black in Black Duck means secret | Jul 21 23:39 |
| fewa | *or | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Like a black box | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They should call it Black Dark Software | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Like Net Applications | Jul 21 23:39 |
| fewa | both prevent embrace, extend, extinguish | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Which is another Microsoft-backed lie | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | They measure some sites in the US | Jul 21 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Microsofter a chief | Jul 21 23:40 |
| schestowitz | and Microsoft their paying client | Jul 21 23:40 |
| fewa | the numbers are faked | Jul 21 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jul 21 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Not global, either | Jul 21 23:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple | Jul 21 23:40 |
| schestowitz | They try to scare game makers and h/w vendors | Jul 21 23:40 |
| fewa | its just a carefully crafter way of manipulating the market by telling the market what to think | Jul 21 23:40 |
| balzac | Black Duck needs to crawl back under it's rock | Jul 21 23:40 |
| balzac | yep | Jul 21 23:41 |
| balzac | they're trying to propagandize their way to suppress GNU | Jul 21 23:41 |
| schestowitz | I confronted them over it | Jul 21 23:41 |
| schestowitz | They didn't retract | Jul 21 23:41 |
| balzac | GNU is like a long-suffering but irrepressible beast which will not be denied its moment of triumph | Jul 21 23:41 |
| schestowitz | They insisted Microsoft is now all nice anf fluffy | Jul 21 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Threy know BN was a critic all along | Jul 21 23:41 |
| fewa | Lies that are meant to manipulate markets are illegal | Jul 21 23:42 |
| schestowitz | They added heaps of Windows-only 'open source' 0s and 1s | Jul 21 23:42 |
| schestowitz | And then announced that proportionally GPL declined | Jul 21 23:42 |
| balzac | that's why I generally say "f*ck open source" | Jul 21 23:42 |
| schestowitz | fewa: yeah, good luck seeking justice over that | Jul 21 23:42 |
| fewa | but still needs to be said | Jul 21 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Analyst pump stocks all the time | Jul 21 23:42 |
| fewa | people need to know that those who rip them off are reaking the law | Jul 21 23:43 |
| schestowitz | See the Comedy Cantral bit from Stewart (???/) and the Cramer Mad Money Show cotoroversy (CNBC) | Jul 21 23:43 |
| balzac | brb | Jul 21 23:43 |
| fewa | if they were confident in that knowledge then they wouldnt succumb to the spin as much | Jul 21 23:43 |
| schestowitz | The whole financial press is too capable of manipulating for profit | Jul 21 23:43 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jul 21 23:43 | |
| fewa | It is only the jews that defend a whole profession from hypocracy and ridicule, as most in those systems would rather through group think burn themselves to the ground | Jul 21 23:45 |
| schestowitz | Good lad: http://blogs.opennms.org/?p=1018 | Jul 21 23:45 |
| schestowitz | fewa: financial is a meta0-industry | Jul 21 23:46 |
| fewa | John Stewart makes a strong effect to make sure he isnt grouped into the Junk of the media | Jul 21 23:46 |
| schestowitz | Not sure it's an ethnic thing, ehtough. | Jul 21 23:46 |
| fewa | yeah i shouldnt have said that | Jul 21 23:46 |
| schestowitz | John Stewart is funny | Jul 21 23:46 |
| schestowitz | Colbert is too weird sometimes | Jul 21 23:46 |
| fewa | very differnt backgrounds | Jul 21 23:47 |
| schestowitz | It's an oversimplification | Jul 21 23:47 |
| fewa | what? | Jul 21 23:47 |
| fewa | colbert? | Jul 21 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Although the other day at the sauna we discussed some of the secret societies | Jul 21 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Some say they could be worth trillions | Jul 21 23:47 |
| schestowitz | And have existed for centuries with rules to prevent disclosures | Jul 21 23:48 |
| fewa | But without being proped up by the masses they would be worthless | Jul 21 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the film "how money is made" (or something like that?) | Jul 21 23:48 |
| fewa | Any ruling class can only rule through control | Jul 21 23:48 |
| fewa | and upon the ignorance of the masses--often manufactured | Jul 21 23:49 |
| schestowitz | "While ever firm is different, my best guess is that a single vendor open source firm should start out with the GPL and switch over to Apache when it thinks it can take the extra heat." http://dirkriehle.com/2009/07/17/every-license-has-its-time-and-place/ | Jul 21 23:50 |
| schestowitz | fewa: they could get housewives and elderly couples to put their money in FraudStreet(R) | Jul 21 23:50 |
| schestowitz | These people have no inside information | Jul 21 23:51 |
| schestowitz | SO the market can be inflated and then massively abandoned by those with insider information | Jul 21 23:51 |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-13-19.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 23:51 | |
| schestowitz | It's not so uncommon | Jul 21 23:51 |
| schestowitz | It's a sort of pyramid scheme, but rrequires explanation | Jul 21 23:51 |
| fewa | or fraud instruments--like leveraged byouts | Jul 21 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Suppose you have a finite number of people and funds | Jul 21 23:52 |
| fewa | buyouts* | Jul 21 23:52 |
| schestowitz | You want all of them to join the scheme at some level | Jul 21 23:52 |
| schestowitz | As long as you control the company or bank | Jul 21 23:52 |
| schestowitz | But they are bottoms in this pyramid, stilll | Jul 21 23:52 |
| fewa | forced Fred Meyers groceries here to take on huge debt and then be acquired by Kroger | Jul 21 23:52 |
| fewa | all fraud against the company | Jul 21 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Where's "here"? | Jul 21 23:52 |
| fewa | a form of fraud completely unenforced: that Board members are assumed to be working in the interest of their companies | Jul 21 23:53 |
| fewa | Pacific Northwest US | Jul 21 23:53 |
| balzac | schestowitz: you know what this Black Duck doodoo means? | Jul 21 23:55 |
| balzac | It means the proprietary software establishment lead by Microsoft is desperately seeking a glimmer of hope, as they see the GNU stampede comeing over the horizon. | Jul 21 23:56 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.3.160.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 23:56 | |
| balzac | They're trying to make their own good news | Jul 21 23:56 |
| balzac | They'd have us believe GNU is not really like the tide, eating away the foundation of their sand castle empire. | Jul 21 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Exactly | Jul 21 23:57 |
| balzac | But GNU is exactly the embodiment of the forces of entropy and reorganization that they most fear. | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | I de-legitimised them based on deeds | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | They also stole a database | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | From Palamida | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | They are a proprietary software-only company | Jul 21 23:57 |
| balzac | yeah, I wondered why Palamida quit | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Quit? | Jul 21 23:57 |
| balzac | maybe because the truth was getting too scary | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | GPLv3 or altogether? | Jul 21 23:57 |
| balzac | tracking GPL propagation | Jul 21 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Jul 21 23:58 |
| balzac | they stopped their monthly tracking | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Black f* stole their DB | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Which took a lot of work to achieve | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Even with the typos | Jul 21 23:58 |
| balzac | Yeah, Black Duck probably screen-scraped the data or something. | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | There are articles about it | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Black Duck hopes people will forget | Jul 21 23:58 |
| balzac | Black Duck has the hand of Microsoft up its cloaca. | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | I never did | Jul 21 23:58 |
| schestowitz | I don't know | Jul 21 23:59 |
| schestowitz | But Doug Levy was from Microsoft | Jul 21 23:59 |
| schestowitz | He founded this thing | Jul 21 23:59 |
| schestowitz | He's still in the board | Jul 21 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Not the only one from Microsoft, either | Jul 21 23:59 |
| balzac | Doug Levy is the hand of microsoft up in the cloaca of the Black Duck | Jul 21 23:59 |
| fewa | there is no way to tell what percentage of code | Jul 21 23:59 |
| schestowitz | I recently researched to see who's in chanrge | Jul 21 23:59 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.249.17.95) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 21 23:59 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: indeed | Jul 21 23:59 |
| fewa | any number of somebody who says they know are BS | Jul 21 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
