IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 8th, 2009

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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Currently running the latest build of Chromium 3.0.198.0 and using Firefox less each day! Great work! #chromium #linuxAug 08 00:45
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*schestowitz listens to http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2009/may/26/0x0E/Aug 08 01:20
schestowitzHmmmmmmm.......Aug 08 01:23
schestowitz(0000465) administrator (administrator) - 2009-08-07 18:52Aug 08 01:23
schestowitz http://bugs.thunderbrowse.com/view.php?id=242#c465 Aug 08 01:23
schestowitz---------------------------------------------------------------------- Aug 08 01:23
schestowitzThunderBrowse doesn't hijack CTRL F or G, it just uses Thunderbird's findAug 08 01:23
schestowitzin page. Aug 08 01:23
schestowitzWhen ThunderBrowse supports Thunderbird 3 tabs, the problem will beAug 08 01:23
schestowitzcompletely solved (using a special find in page made for Thunderbird 3Aug 08 01:23
schestowitztabs). Aug 08 01:23
schestowitzI guess my bug report is a case of "wait until next version"Aug 08 01:24
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_Hicham_Mr oiaohmAug 08 01:36
_Hicham_it have been a long timeAug 08 01:36
_Hicham_howdy?Aug 08 01:36
oiaohmHi _Hicham_Aug 08 01:40
_Hicham_oiaohm, what do u of VirtualBox vs other virtualization techs?Aug 08 01:46
oiaohmEach Virtualisation tech has its advantages and disadvantages.Aug 08 01:48
oiaohmVirtualbox lacks machine to machine migration that makes it not suitable for particular jobs.Aug 08 01:48
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cubezzzwell, let's see if Dell Canada has a linux laptop...Aug 08 02:12
cubezzzamazing, they actually have oneAug 08 02:14
cubezzzbut the way they appease microsoft is by price matchingAug 08 02:14
cubezzzubuntu version = $329Aug 08 02:14
cubezzzxp version = $329Aug 08 02:15
cubezzz"Congratulations you have qualified for $40 savings"Aug 08 02:16
cubezzz;-)Aug 08 02:16
cubezzznot a bad deal, free shipping evenAug 08 02:17
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schestowitzNo preinstalled junk, eitherAug 08 02:22
schestowitzgnAug 08 02:22
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Diablo-D3http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/Bc6t6sPH9Fo/3000-year-old-michae.htmlAug 08 03:25
Diablo-D3AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAug 08 03:25
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Diablo-D3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz-Oj2QgzYwAug 08 03:31
neighborleeOK thats weird ;)Aug 08 03:31
neighborleeMore proof that Michael Jackson is an Alien < haAug 08 03:32
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twittersubmission mod bombed http://slashdot.org/submission/1051033/Windows-7-Still-Slower-than-XP-and-UbuntuAug 08 03:40
neighborleeDiablo-D3, kewlAug 08 03:41
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Diablo-D3http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/boingboing/iBag/~3/YV8IpXL6a4I/former-french-presid.htmlAug 08 03:49
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twittertwitter attack aimed at one 34 year old economics professor? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/technology/internet/08twitter.htmlAug 08 04:11
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dsmith_I love astroturfers...All I can say is that Windows 7 Ultimate x64 is my OS of choice. I've used them all for years-OS X 10.3, 10.4, and 10.5, and Kubuntu/Ubuntu, and Windows 7 outclasses them all.Aug 08 04:47
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DaemonFChttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/07/MNKD195L9T.DTLAug 08 08:30
DaemonFC$10 billion collider produces subpar resultsAug 08 08:31
DaemonFChehAug 08 08:31
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_goblinHi all.Aug 08 08:43
schestowitzHeyAug 08 08:45
schestowitzWhen is the report to the FTC made public?Aug 08 08:45
schestowitzI was gonna write about Andre and JohnAug 08 08:45
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DaemonFCreport to the FTC?Aug 08 08:47
DaemonFCwho is in line for a wrist slap now?Aug 08 08:48
Diablo-D3schestowitz: its always been publicAug 08 08:48
Diablo-D3everything you send to the ftc and fcc and sec are of public recordAug 08 08:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Novell, Microsoft, Software Patents, and Mono Insults http://bit.ly/2r6GcVAug 08 08:50
DaemonFCideally, yesAug 08 08:51
DaemonFCthat's still assuming the theory that the government works for the people and not the robber baronsAug 08 08:51
DaemonFCtechnically, the cocaine and hooker parties paid for by oil and coal lobbyists at the Department of the Interior under George W. Bush were a matter of public record tooAug 08 08:52
DaemonFCand so was their director sepending $250,000 taxpayer dollars to renovate his bathroom, complete with monogrammed towelsAug 08 08:52
DaemonFCyet it didn't even leak out until long after Bush was out of office and had instructed that they not be prosecutedAug 08 08:53
_goblinsorry Roy, missed your comment....the report will be finished very shortly...Aug 08 08:53
DaemonFCwhen you have government officials that can just hide everything they do and protect themselves from prosecution even if they are discovered, you no longer have an accountable governmentAug 08 08:54
DaemonFCindylgences that would have led to public officials being executed a couple hundred years ago, happen every single day nowAug 08 08:55
_goblinthe report is being proof read by 2 different people...Aug 08 08:55
DaemonFC*indulgencesAug 08 08:55
_goblinnormally I would have someone at work who would type it for me, however this is certainly not work related.Aug 08 08:55
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Vista 7 Hype Gets Generated and Why GNU/Linux is in a Good Position http://bit.ly/N0e8iAug 08 09:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Microsoft Schwag Club http://bit.ly/4lw0MCAug 08 09:51
schestowitz_goblin: have a look ^Aug 08 09:52
_goblinok...Aug 08 09:52
DaemonFCyou'd think that out of all the things they could overhype, that chkdsk /r bug would be at the bottomAug 08 10:09
DaemonFCwho even uses it with /r?Aug 08 10:09
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: heh?Aug 08 10:10
DaemonFCsomething about chkdsk /r using a lot of RAMAug 08 10:11
DaemonFCI was unable to reproduce thisAug 08 10:11
Diablo-D3640kb is enough for anybody!Aug 08 10:11
DaemonFCyou don't even use chkdsk /r unless the disk is physically damaged and you're trying to repair it enough to get everything off of itAug 08 10:11
DaemonFCnot even Windows uses thatAug 08 10:11
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: why do they bother doing that?Aug 08 10:12
DaemonFCit starts it with /f to check and repair filesystem inconsistencyAug 08 10:12
Diablo-D3just boot linux and dd the driveAug 08 10:12
Diablo-D3if the drive is dying you need as little extra usage as possibleAug 08 10:12
Diablo-D3and sometimes the freezer trick helps tooAug 08 10:12
DaemonFCbrbAug 08 10:12
DaemonFCerr, nmAug 08 10:13
DaemonFCbut yeah, /r is in case the disk is dyingAug 08 10:13
DaemonFCyou'd normally have no reason to run itAug 08 10:13
Diablo-D3if the disk is dying, you're already too lateAug 08 10:13
DaemonFCit's mainly there for Windows ServerAug 08 10:13
Diablo-D3but as I said, dd is your answerAug 08 10:13
Diablo-D3not some fucking windows shitAug 08 10:13
Diablo-D3fucking admins should know this shitAug 08 10:13
DaemonFCwell, you should have RAID backups if you're running anything seriousAug 08 10:13
DaemonFCthat's a little bit beyond the typical Windows 7 user I'm sureAug 08 10:14
Diablo-D3the typical windows user isn't smart enough to use windowsAug 08 10:16
Diablo-D3they should be using linuxAug 08 10:16
DaemonFCit supports it, but you're not going to be running a server on Windows 7Aug 08 10:16
Diablo-D3I wish I was telling a joke here, but Im notAug 08 10:16
DaemonFCyou could, but I don't see anyone doing itAug 08 10:16
Diablo-D3I mean, lets face itAug 08 10:16
Diablo-D3the average person is too stupid to use windowsAug 08 10:16
Diablo-D3linux is so fucking easy a 4 year old could do itAug 08 10:16
Diablo-D3in fact, 4 year olds do.Aug 08 10:16
DaemonFCwell, I ended up learning DOS+Windows because Linux didn't exist in any serious way at the timeAug 08 10:17
DaemonFCin fact, I don't think there even really were any Linux distributions til about 5 years after I got my 68k MacAug 08 10:18
Diablo-D3hehAug 08 10:18
DaemonFCor about 3 years after my PC with DOS+WindowsAug 08 10:18
Diablo-D3I used dos before windows even existedAug 08 10:18
Diablo-D3dos was easyAug 08 10:18
Diablo-D3what happened to thatAug 08 10:18
DaemonFCWindows jsut kind of came with the systemAug 08 10:18
DaemonFCit wasn't really good for anythingAug 08 10:18
Diablo-D3hell, my first machine didnt even have a hard driveAug 08 10:19
DaemonFCeverything you wanted to run was for DOS anyway til 1995Aug 08 10:19
DaemonFCand for a while after that, games were still running in DOS mode because there was no DirectXAug 08 10:19
Diablo-D3I've been using debian for over ten yearsAug 08 10:19
DaemonFCthen around 1997, there was the Glide/OpenGL/DirectX warsAug 08 10:20
DaemonFCand most gamers used GlideAug 08 10:20
Diablo-D3so I think we're both too oldAug 08 10:20
Diablo-D3dude, thats bullshitAug 08 10:20
Diablo-D3most 3D games were still software when glide game and wentAug 08 10:20
DaemonFCnah, a lot of them could run in software modeAug 08 10:20
DaemonFCbut had Glide enhancements as an optionAug 08 10:20
Diablo-D3and the ones that were used oglAug 08 10:20
Diablo-D3or rather, the ones that actually matteredAug 08 10:21
Diablo-D3I mean, there was several dos games that didnt even use anything usefulAug 08 10:21
DaemonFCthey'd say like "Requires 266 Mhz Pentium 2 -or- 133 Mhz Pentium + Voodoo 2 1000"Aug 08 10:21
Diablo-D3like, descent 2 came with a binary that did hardware accel on an s3 virgeAug 08 10:21
DaemonFCso it was really mostly a way to take a load off the CPU, and it gave you better textures, higher resolutionAug 08 10:21
Diablo-D3you know what the virge did/Aug 08 10:21
DaemonFCit was still optional thoughAug 08 10:21
Diablo-D3quads.Aug 08 10:21
Diablo-D3not even texture mapped quadsAug 08 10:21
Diablo-D3and you had a color per quad instead of per vertexAug 08 10:22
Diablo-D3and it couldnt do trianglesAug 08 10:22
DaemonFCI really hated DirectX, the Voodoo card barely even supported itAug 08 10:22
Diablo-D3its not that voodoo didnt support itAug 08 10:22
DaemonFCI remember upgrading to DirectX 7 and killing my video driverAug 08 10:22
Diablo-D3its that microsoft suckedAug 08 10:22
Diablo-D3why do you think all the clueful coders use ogl now?Aug 08 10:22
Diablo-D3because they have better things in life to doAug 08 10:23
DaemonFCmost games are DirectX 9.0C because that's what Windows XP supportsAug 08 10:23
Diablo-D3I said clueful codersAug 08 10:23
DaemonFCMicrosoft really set gaming back by not porting DirectX 10 to XPAug 08 10:23
Diablo-D3most games suck dick internallyAug 08 10:23
DaemonFCthough I suppose they also accidentally gave Wine some time to catch upAug 08 10:24
Diablo-D3noAug 08 10:24
Diablo-D3wine has minimal dx10 supportAug 08 10:24
DaemonFCthe gaming world is stalled out at DirectX 9Aug 08 10:24
Diablo-D3in fact, people are using wine to do dx10 on xpAug 08 10:24
Diablo-D3via the wine3d projectAug 08 10:24
DaemonFCso Wine has had a few years to get their DX 9 support that they wouldn't have had otherwiseAug 08 10:24
DaemonFCby the time people leave DX 9 behind, it's going to be on version 11Aug 08 10:25
DaemonFCthen Wine is going to be useless for new titlesAug 08 10:25
*Diablo-D3 waves his hand infront of DaemonFC's faceAug 08 10:25
DaemonFCthey go where the money is, and right now there's enough XP holdouts to make it more profitable to support DirectX 9 in some meaningful wayAug 08 10:26
DaemonFCgiven another year or two, that won't be soAug 08 10:26
Diablo-D3DaemonFC has gone insane!Aug 08 10:26
DaemonFCthere is no good way to get proper D3D 10 support on XPAug 08 10:27
DaemonFCif you do go that route, the hack to get the MS redistributable works betterAug 08 10:27
*Diablo-D3 gives upAug 08 10:27
Diablo-D3he must have me on ignoreAug 08 10:27
DaemonFCno, I heards you, the XP users gettting DirectX 10 through some kind of Wine side projectAug 08 10:28
DaemonFCit's not going to workAug 08 10:28
DaemonFC*heardAug 08 10:28
Diablo-D3actually it does workAug 08 10:28
Diablo-D3Ive been using itAug 08 10:28
DaemonFCif it's incomplete in Wine, how is it going to work in XP?Aug 08 10:28
Diablo-D3I mean, it works in the sense shit actually uses itAug 08 10:28
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: its actually really neatAug 08 10:29
DaemonFCso you mean something like the enhanced Crysis modes would be playable and hardware accelerated?Aug 08 10:29
DaemonFCI'd have to see thisAug 08 10:29
Diablo-D3noAug 08 10:29
Diablo-D3because of what wine doesAug 08 10:29
Diablo-D3wine3d takes the dlls off wineAug 08 10:29
Diablo-D3builds them for windowsAug 08 10:29
Diablo-D3then replaces windows' own dllsAug 08 10:29
Diablo-D3so you now have a d3d emulation that uses opengl accelerationAug 08 10:29
DaemonFCright, but your video drivers would have to support the APIAug 08 10:30
DaemonFCand as far as I know, no XP video drivers doAug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3noAug 08 10:30
DaemonFCso you'd get software rendering, maybeAug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3your video drivers have to support it in _opengl_Aug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3which many drivers doAug 08 10:30
DaemonFCahhhAug 08 10:30
DaemonFCthat makes sense thenAug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3I can do all the same shit d3d10 does in openglAug 08 10:30
DaemonFCNvidia XP drivers do support OpenGL 3.1Aug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3well, a lot of the shit is in extensionsAug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3like geometry shadersAug 08 10:30
Diablo-D3its an extension I can use in 2.1Aug 08 10:31
Diablo-D3largely, d3d is way behindAug 08 10:31
DaemonFCI don't know of any hardcore gamers that aren't already on Vista thoughAug 08 10:31
Diablo-D3useful geometry shader support in d3d didnt happen until after everyone had working geometry shaders in oglAug 08 10:31
Diablo-D3hehAug 08 10:31
Diablo-D3I use xp in virtualboxAug 08 10:31
DaemonFCthe kind of $4,000 PCs they buy wouldn't be hobbled by VistaAug 08 10:31
Diablo-D3I cant use xp on my real hardwareAug 08 10:31
Diablo-D3I have too much memoryAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3xp32 and vista32 bsod on bootAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3xp64 has no vendor supportAug 08 10:32
DaemonFCI don't use any 32-bit operating systemsAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3vista64 is the only thing that works, and its fucking shitAug 08 10:32
DaemonFChaven't for a few yearsAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3I tried out 7 64 back in the betaAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3its obviously betterAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3but its still fucking windowsAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3so I keep XP in virtualboxAug 08 10:32
DaemonFCI'm on 7 RTM x64 right nowAug 08 10:32
Diablo-D3you know whats neat?Aug 08 10:33
DaemonFC?Aug 08 10:33
Diablo-D3virtualbox ships wine3d in their guest driversAug 08 10:33
Diablo-D3so I get d3d acceleration in XP and my host is linuxAug 08 10:33
DaemonFCyeah, I noticedAug 08 10:33
DaemonFCit enables seamless mode without paying royalties to MicrosoftAug 08 10:33
DaemonFCwhich I got a kick out ofAug 08 10:33
Diablo-D3well, it used to be just opengl accelAug 08 10:33
Diablo-D3but thanks to wine3d and how it works, I now get bothAug 08 10:33
Diablo-D3wine3d translates the calls in the client, so it calls window's opengl shitAug 08 10:34
DaemonFCyeah, the funny thing is that running Windows XP in VirtualBox performs better than the official "XP Mode"Aug 08 10:34
Diablo-D3hehAug 08 10:34
DaemonFCVirtual PC has never really amazed meAug 08 10:34
Diablo-D3win7 boots faster in vbox than it does on real hardwareAug 08 10:34
Diablo-D3BUTAug 08 10:34
DaemonFCeven before MS bought ConnectixAug 08 10:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s OOXML Patents, Apple’s Endorsement, and the Rise of OpenOffice.org http://bit.ly/XZHdHAug 08 10:34
Diablo-D3its the same installAug 08 10:34
Diablo-D3I installed win7 in a way that its on a real partition and I can both boot it and boot it in vboxAug 08 10:35
DaemonFCit always struck me as some second rate VMWare that couldn't competeAug 08 10:35
Diablo-D3and vbox boots it faster.Aug 08 10:35
DaemonFCMS snapped them up for a songAug 08 10:35
DaemonFCWindows 7 Ultimate supports booting off of VHDs, but Professional doesn'tAug 08 10:36
DaemonFCthat's probably deliberate, so that you can't get great XP support without buying the most expensive Windows 7Aug 08 10:36
DaemonFCbooting the VHD boots up Windows XP on your actual hardwareAug 08 10:36
Diablo-D3I wonder why microsoft bothersAug 08 10:36
Diablo-D3they should just release windows for freeAug 08 10:36
DaemonFCI think Windws 7 Pro is going to be $300 and Ultimate is $320Aug 08 10:37
Diablo-D3nopeAug 08 10:37
Diablo-D3its going to be $0Aug 08 10:37
DaemonFCtheir goal is to make you jsut pay the $20 rather than hit some snag laterAug 08 10:37
Diablo-D3behold: BITTORRENTAug 08 10:37
Diablo-D3I just have to find something worth running in itAug 08 10:37
Diablo-D3that may take awhileAug 08 10:37
DaemonFCit's already been cracked, the same way XP wasAug 08 10:38
DaemonFCthe backdoor Microsoft built in for OEMsAug 08 10:38
DaemonFCerr, XP and Vista that isAug 08 10:38
Diablo-D3yeah I knowAug 08 10:39
Diablo-D3and its stupidAug 08 10:39
DaemonFCMicrosoft said they blacklisted the OEM key that leaked out, but they can't actually do anything about it until Service Pack 1Aug 08 10:39
Diablo-D3microsoft should just remove the license shitAug 08 10:39
DaemonFCby that time, real OEM keys will have all leaked anywayAug 08 10:39
Diablo-D3it costs too much money to runAug 08 10:39
DaemonFCit was actually easier for Microsoft to shut down pirated XP by blacklisting Volume License keysAug 08 10:40
DaemonFCnow the OEM keys are designed to be in use by millions of systems eachAug 08 10:40
Diablo-D3manAug 08 10:40
Diablo-D3roy actually thought I was nuts for saying I could run microsoft greatAug 08 10:40
Diablo-D3I seriously canAug 08 10:40
Diablo-D3step 1) no more license keysAug 08 10:41
Diablo-D3I cant imagine how much that shit costsAug 08 10:41
DaemonFCit's not doing them any good to enforce product activationAug 08 10:41
DaemonFCthey're only snagging paying customers in that netAug 08 10:41
Diablo-D3exactlyAug 08 10:41
Diablo-D3do NOT bite the hand that feeds youAug 08 10:41
Diablo-D3it causes more linux usersAug 08 10:41
DaemonFCmy guess about product activation is that it's not about piracy at allAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3yes it isAug 08 10:42
DaemonFCit's about destroying the market for "used" Windows licensesAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3microsoft admitted itAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: noAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3microsoft has already admitted they blacklist keys that have been sold used if they can find themAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3which is an illegal practice in the USAug 08 10:42
DaemonFCyeah, that's with VLK keysAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3noAug 08 10:42
DaemonFCthey don't use those anymoreAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3normal keysAug 08 10:42
Diablo-D3especially oem keysAug 08 10:42
DaemonFCOEM keys are pretty much all the sameAug 08 10:43
schestowitzDaemonFC: see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL9-M0HKHYY&NR=1Aug 08 10:43
DaemonFCthey issue about half a dozen for every edition of Windows, and OEMs use those over and overAug 08 10:43
DaemonFCthe real check is to see if the OEM SLIC key is in your BIOSAug 08 10:43
DaemonFCand if their certificate has been installed in Licensing ManagerAug 08 10:43
Diablo-D3which is illegalAug 08 10:43
DaemonFCno, that's how SLP worksAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3why do you think apple doesnt do it?Aug 08 10:44
DaemonFCit's by designAug 08 10:44
DaemonFCApple does do itAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3because they know theres too many legal problemsAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: noAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3apple has no license keys!Aug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3none!Aug 08 10:44
DaemonFCApple's is only slightly different than MSAug 08 10:44
DaemonFCthere is no serial number you see, that's trueAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3osx only checks if you're on a macAug 08 10:44
DaemonFCthe authorization key is in the firmware itselfAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3not evenAug 08 10:44
DaemonFCwhich is similar to Windows and OEM SLICAug 08 10:44
Diablo-D3macs arent identifiable that way for that purposeAug 08 10:45
Diablo-D3osx only checks if its running on a macAug 08 10:45
DaemonFCApple doesn't really have to worry about piracy because only a Mac is guaranteed to run Mac OSAug 08 10:45
DaemonFCand every Mac comes with itAug 08 10:45
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: noAug 08 10:45
Diablo-D3because what about upgrades?Aug 08 10:45
Diablo-D3they dont actually care if you pirate an upgradeAug 08 10:45
Diablo-D3you know why?Aug 08 10:45
DaemonFCthey don't really care about that eitherAug 08 10:45
Diablo-D3they're in the hardware business not the software businessAug 08 10:46
DaemonFCthey're mainly a hardware companyAug 08 10:46
DaemonFCLeopard to Snow Leopard is $30Aug 08 10:46
DaemonFCthat's not really all that bad becauser they already made their money on youAug 08 10:46
Diablo-D3I thought they quit producing upgrade discs?Aug 08 10:46
DaemonFCthey still make upgrade discsAug 08 10:46
DaemonFCthe pricing layout is a little different in some casesAug 08 10:46
Diablo-D3hehAug 08 10:47
Diablo-D3AT ANY RATEAug 08 10:47
Diablo-D3microsoft fucked up bigAug 08 10:47
DaemonFC10.0-10.1 was free, the rest have been $129, but 10.5 to 10.6 is going to be $30Aug 08 10:47
Diablo-D3they don't _have_ to make hardware to "be in the hardware business"Aug 08 10:47
Diablo-D3they could just buy stock in every major manufacturer and give windows away for freeAug 08 10:47
DaemonFCyeah, well, Apple's primary concern is not software licensing because everyone that buys a Mac gets a licensed Mac OSAug 08 10:48
DaemonFCsoftware upgrades have never been their prime source of incomeAug 08 10:48
Diablo-D3apple's primary concern is how to make me buy an apple productAug 08 10:48
Diablo-D3I never haveAug 08 10:48
DaemonFCMicrosoft's concern is licensing because that's all they doAug 08 10:48
Diablo-D3my sole apple product was usedAug 08 10:48
DaemonFCand not every PC automatically has WindowsAug 08 10:48
DaemonFCMicrosoft has been scalping executives from Apple and Walmart thoughAug 08 10:49
DaemonFCto try and open up Microsoft StoresAug 08 10:49
*Diablo-D3 smacks DaemonFC Aug 08 10:49
Diablo-D3listenAug 08 10:49
DaemonFCI have no idea how they think that will workAug 08 10:49
Diablo-D3microsoft needs to quit trying to sell a productAug 08 10:50
Diablo-D3microsoft needs to start making moneyAug 08 10:50
DaemonFCto make the Microsoft Store thing work, they'd have to be in control of the hardware that Windows runs on tooAug 08 10:50
DaemonFCso that would mean a Microsoft-branded PC lineAug 08 10:50
Diablo-D3they already have oneAug 08 10:50
Diablo-D3its called DellAug 08 10:50
Diablo-D3microsoft just needs to BUY STOCK IN THEMAug 08 10:50
DaemonFCnahAug 08 10:50
Diablo-D3well no not nowAug 08 10:51
DaemonFCthey should cut the middle man out of the loopAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3they let dell goAug 08 10:51
DaemonFCand just make Microsoft PCsAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3dell sells lots of linux shit nowAug 08 10:51
DaemonFCit's what I'd do anywayAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3so does hpAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: ugh noAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3no noAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3everytime microsft gets into hardwareAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3its doomedAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3everyAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3singleAug 08 10:51
DaemonFCtheir biggest problem is the OEMAug 08 10:51
Diablo-D3timeAug 08 10:51
DaemonFCif Microsoft dictated the hardware layout and didn't load down the system with crapware, they'd have a much better time marketing Windows as being in the same league as a MacAug 08 10:52
DaemonFCa lot of problems come from OEMs making hardware cutbacks and loading the system with crapwareAug 08 10:52
Diablo-D3this is what I've been sayingAug 08 10:52
Diablo-D3but microsoft cant do it without a Major Asshole(tm) running the showAug 08 10:53
DaemonFCthey need to either whip the OEMs into line or cut them out of the loopAug 08 10:53
Diablo-D3seriouslyAug 08 10:53
Diablo-D3I'd work for themAug 08 10:53
Diablo-D3I know they know my email, they just have to askAug 08 10:53
Diablo-D3I'd do it for cheap tooAug 08 10:53
DaemonFCBallmer does not have the right temperament to run a company of that sizeAug 08 10:54
Diablo-D3no he dontAug 08 10:55
Diablo-D3he just gets angryAug 08 10:55
Diablo-D3you dont get angryAug 08 10:55
Diablo-D3you fire.Aug 08 10:55
Diablo-D3you fire entire departments.Aug 08 10:55
Diablo-D3hes a fucking fucktard for not doing itAug 08 10:55
Diablo-D3microsoft needs about half their employeesAug 08 10:56
DaemonFCwell, they spent years letting OEMs get away with anything they wanted to doAug 08 10:57
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YokaENa7F9w&feature=relatedAug 08 10:57
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: yes, and it needs to endAug 08 10:57
Diablo-D3I'd fire oems too.Aug 08 10:57
DaemonFCand they let little antivirus cartels set up shop and PC repair toolsAug 08 10:57
DaemonFCso long as they got a cutAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3in fact, I'd probably smash the entire industryAug 08 10:58
DaemonFCand now if they fix Windows, they'll be suedAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3the only thing I'd need to do is compete with linuxAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3even apple doesnt matterAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3they're tiny shitAug 08 10:58
DaemonFCMicrosoft wants a finger in both pies thoughAug 08 10:58
DaemonFCApple is concentrating on being a consumer hardware companyAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3no they dontAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3they want moneyAug 08 10:58
Diablo-D3all other goals are immaterialAug 08 10:58
DaemonFCMicrosoft can't go after consumers and companies with the same softwareAug 08 10:59
DaemonFCthat's where the single servicing stack model came fromAug 08 10:59
DaemonFCwhere Windows and Windows Server all use the same core components and service packsAug 08 10:59
*Diablo-D3 is talking to the wallAug 08 11:00
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DaemonFCbecause managing XP and Windows 2003 out of sync brought the Vista problems onAug 08 11:00
Diablo-D3just kill microsoft alreadyAug 08 11:00
DaemonFCit also means two different development trees and teams for everythingAug 08 11:00
DaemonFCthat's probably where some of the downsizing came from, they unified the Windows core components and don't need redundant programmer teams anymoreAug 08 11:01
Diablo-D3seriouslyAug 08 11:01
Diablo-D3just kill themAug 08 11:01
Diablo-D3microsoft doesnt need to existAug 08 11:01
Alex_Ihi. anyone can help with program access at ACPI ?Aug 08 11:01
DaemonFCschestowitz: Youtube's days are numbered anywayAug 08 11:03
Diablo-D3schestowitz: when did this channel get filled with nutjobs?Aug 08 11:03
Diablo-D3seriouslyAug 08 11:03
DaemonFCthe media cartels are going to have a nightmare when there's no longer any one video hosting company to sueAug 08 11:03
Diablo-D3we have microsoft shillsAug 08 11:03
Diablo-D3we have novell shillsAug 08 11:03
Diablo-D3we even have apple shillsAug 08 11:04
Diablo-D3we have linux shills (oh god why does linux even need shills, go home redhat)Aug 08 11:04
Diablo-D3we have DaemonFCAug 08 11:04
Diablo-D3all I ask is for some sanity and reasonAug 08 11:04
_goblinI think there are many parties with a vested interest in keeping the FOSS cat in the bag....Aug 08 11:04
_goblinthats business...if you are selling a product that has a FOSS alternative you are not going to be very happy.Aug 08 11:05
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Diablo-D3_goblin: I'd like the foss cat in the bag, honestlyAug 08 11:05
Diablo-D3this is why I wish ubuntu would just dieAug 08 11:06
Diablo-D3I dont _want_ dumb people using linuxAug 08 11:06
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Diablo-D3they're going to make it all shittyAug 08 11:06
Diablo-D3and difficult to useAug 08 11:06
_goblinI think a testament to the quality of FOSS products is the attempts to cheapen them.  If they were indeed that bad then proprietary firms would not need to be worried...Aug 08 11:06
Diablo-D3I like my linux the way it isAug 08 11:06
DaemonFCApple is rolling in moneyAug 08 11:06
Diablo-D3why do you think I tell people to buy macs?Aug 08 11:06
Diablo-D3apple has actually resisted the fucktardsAug 08 11:06
DaemonFCit's because they don't get all in your face with DRM and software licensingAug 08 11:06
_goblinDiablo-D3: I sort of agree in the sense that the "want it all on a plate" users are, IMO responsible for Vista.Aug 08 11:07
_goblinyou can see that migrating to Linux if they moved...Aug 08 11:07
Diablo-D3yes and I dont want itAug 08 11:07
Diablo-D3I just want an OS that works for me :<Aug 08 11:07
DaemonFCVista was in trouble when every single team at Microsoft started hooking their pet project onto itAug 08 11:07
Diablo-D3Ive gone to great lengths to resist whats happening to linuxAug 08 11:07
DaemonFCthey also retconned a lot of the bloat back into XPAug 08 11:08
_goblinUbuntu - Have to start to agree.....comparing performance of Ubuntu/Wolvix is like chalk and cheese (IMO)...Aug 08 11:08
schestowitzDiablo-D3: watch your mouth already!Aug 08 11:08
schestowitzYou're filling the channel with obscenitiesAug 08 11:08
Diablo-D3schestowitz: dude, I speak english, if you dont like it, thats your problemAug 08 11:08
DaemonFCbut it's not exactly the Queen's English is it?Aug 08 11:08
DaemonFC:PAug 08 11:08
_goblinVulgarity is the remit of the MS faithful.Aug 08 11:09
_goblinit is the last resort when all else fails.Aug 08 11:09
DaemonFCvulgarity is what comedians fall back to when they aren't funnyAug 08 11:09
DaemonFC:PAug 08 11:09
_goblinFOSS community should rise above that sort of behaviour.Aug 08 11:09
DaemonFCGeorge Carlin was really only funny on HBOAug 08 11:10
DaemonFCfor that matterAug 08 11:10
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DaemonFCI bought tickets to go see him live a few years ago, and ended up walking outAug 08 11:11
_goblinDiablo-D3: Are you really a Linux user?Aug 08 11:11
Diablo-D3george carlin was really only funny before I was bornAug 08 11:11
Diablo-D3not only that, his biggest act is words you cant say on TVAug 08 11:12
Diablo-D3you have to be some sort of idiot to walk out on george carlinAug 08 11:12
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 08 11:12
DaemonFCyou should have seen him thereAug 08 11:12
Diablo-D3well, either that, or some uptight conservative christian, which is largely the same thingAug 08 11:12
DaemonFChe wasn't funny, he was just being gross and stupidAug 08 11:12
Diablo-D3_goblin: yes, btwAug 08 11:12
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: HELLO, THATS GEORGE CARLINAug 08 11:12
Diablo-D3I mean, goddamn manAug 08 11:12
Diablo-D3_goblin: I've used it longer than 99% of the rest of the users haveAug 08 11:13
_goblinDiablo-D3: Would you mind telling us in your own words why you use Linux/FOSS and the advantages over Windows/proprietary......Aug 08 11:13
Diablo-D3_goblin: Ive been around long enough that when I say linux is shit and is still  better than everything else out there, people should shut the fuck up and listenAug 08 11:13
Diablo-D3I quit windows because you cant develop software on itAug 08 11:14
DaemonFCthe lady at my ISP copied off a Red Hat Linux disc for me back in like '98, and I'd always at least had it around since then, usually as a dual bootAug 08 11:14
DaemonFCI've slapped it on some salvage systems as the only OS thoughAug 08 11:14
Diablo-D3only recently did microsoft try to reverse that trendAug 08 11:14
Diablo-D3cygwin and mingw run like shit on windowsAug 08 11:14
Diablo-D3its a nightmare to use itAug 08 11:14
Diablo-D3its slowAug 08 11:14
Alex_Ithose additional words makes the speech very meaningful :)Aug 08 11:14
Diablo-D3it used to bsod constantlyAug 08 11:14
DaemonFCof course Cygwin is slowAug 08 11:14
Diablo-D3(they at least solved that unless you're on shit hardware)Aug 08 11:15
_goblinnot the question I asked.  I was interested in advantages....maybe as allegedly the longest serving user of Linux you could be specific...I am sure it would be an interesting article....Aug 08 11:15
Diablo-D3_goblin: there is no "advantages"Aug 08 11:15
_goblinlolAug 08 11:15
Diablo-D3its just a long list of shit that doesnt piss me offAug 08 11:15
_goblinthought so.Aug 08 11:15
Diablo-D3an OS should _not_ get in my wayAug 08 11:15
_goblinvery very clever.Aug 08 11:15
Diablo-D3not getting in my way is the largest feature in the world, and it pre-empts everything else.Aug 08 11:15
Diablo-D3windows gets in my way.Aug 08 11:15
Diablo-D3linux doesnt.Aug 08 11:16
_goblinor it would have been had I not used the same technique in the workplace.Aug 08 11:16
Diablo-D3people dont use computers to screw aroundAug 08 11:16
Diablo-D3they use computers to get work doneAug 08 11:16
DaemonFChttp://www.gog.com/en/about_usAug 08 11:16
DaemonFChehAug 08 11:16
Diablo-D3I have never one in my entire life actually gotten work done on windowsAug 08 11:16
DaemonFCtheir engines are GPLv2 it looks likeAug 08 11:16
DaemonFCthe only actual nonfree content are the original game maps and suchAug 08 11:16
Diablo-D3_goblin: theres nothing to write about linux in that way, Ive triedAug 08 11:17
Diablo-D3people like me work the opposite of generic stupid usersAug 08 11:17
_goblinDiablo-D3: How do you know how long everyone here has used Linux for?Aug 08 11:17
Diablo-D3_goblin: I've used debian for over a decadeAug 08 11:17
_goblinDiablo-D3: How do you know how long everyone here has used Linux for?Aug 08 11:17
Diablo-D3its very hard to find anyone else like that.Aug 08 11:17
_goblinI repeat.Aug 08 11:17
_goblinyou haven't asked.Aug 08 11:17
_goblinso:Aug 08 11:18
_goblinDiablo-D3: How do you know how long everyone here has used Linux for?Aug 08 11:18
Diablo-D3_goblin: because linux has only recently become popular for generic stupid usersAug 08 11:18
Diablo-D3its mere statisticsAug 08 11:18
_goblinDiablo-D3: How do you know how long everyone here has used Linux for?Aug 08 11:18
Diablo-D3I answered your question, quit trollingAug 08 11:18
_goblinseems like I have to ask againAug 08 11:18
_goblinno you didn'tAug 08 11:18
Diablo-D3actually, I did.Aug 08 11:18
_goblinlolAug 08 11:18
_goblinI will let others check the log and decide then....Aug 08 11:19
Diablo-D3you asked how do I know, I answered: statistics.Aug 08 11:19
_goblinseriously?Aug 08 11:19
_goblinthats your answer?Aug 08 11:19
Diablo-D3most people here simply could not have been using it "forever"Aug 08 11:19
_goblinok, thanks for that.Aug 08 11:19
Diablo-D3theres maybe less than ten thousand people in the world who have used it as long as I have for my primary desktop OSAug 08 11:20
_goblinyou don't need to go on, you've given your answer...statistics....you don't need to justify...I was simply wanting your answer.Aug 08 11:20
oiaohmPrimary for me with Linux was 1998 Diablo-D3Aug 08 11:21
_goblinI bet he is longer than you....;)Aug 08 11:21
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yeah, you, me, and apparently DaemonFC have been around awhileAug 08 11:21
Diablo-D3its up to people like us to .... I dunno.Aug 08 11:22
_goblinI would hope not.Aug 08 11:22
Diablo-D3I mean, I can say windows is shit until I'm blue in the faceAug 08 11:22
Diablo-D3no one caresAug 08 11:22
oiaohmStarted messing with Linux in 1994 had about 8 years before that with BSD.Aug 08 11:22
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w38UBIrkkbc&feature=relatedAug 08 11:22
schestowitz^Roots on 'Linux'Aug 08 11:23
Diablo-D3schestowitz: dude, if you're not going to install a linkbot, dont paste urls in hereAug 08 11:23
Diablo-D3well, urls that dont describe themselvesAug 08 11:23
_goblinI was messing with Devpac2 in 89. ....sure not Linux but why does that make any difference Diablo-d3?Aug 08 11:23
schestowitzNow we have a demon and a diablo speaking badly here... *Sigh*Aug 08 11:23
oiaohmLinux started 1991Aug 08 11:23
Diablo-D3lemme think hereAug 08 11:23
oiaohmI missed out on its first 3 years.Aug 08 11:23
_goblinIm sure diablo didntAug 08 11:24
_goblinallegedly.Aug 08 11:24
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Diablo-D3I started linux with slackware 3Aug 08 11:24
Diablo-D3I hated it and tried debian slinkAug 08 11:24
Diablo-D3when did debian slink come out?Aug 08 11:24
_goblinand now you use Ubuntu?Aug 08 11:24
oiaohmBut look at linux was in the first 3 years I don't think I missed much.Aug 08 11:24
Diablo-D3_goblin: hell noAug 08 11:24
Diablo-D3Im still on debianAug 08 11:24
_goblinlol.Aug 08 11:24
Diablo-D3I never leftAug 08 11:24
_goblinso why are things "up to you" I use Wolvix....whats the point?Aug 08 11:25
schestowitzUser "Satan-XX" will be here any moment nowAug 08 11:25
Diablo-D3okay, I used slackware for eh, a little over a yearAug 08 11:25
Diablo-D3slink came out in 1999Aug 08 11:25
_goblinand?Aug 08 11:25
oiaohmThe thing I like about linux is most of my early notes still work perfectly after all these years.Aug 08 11:25
Diablo-D3its now 2009Aug 08 11:25
Diablo-D3so I've been using it for at most 12 years as my primary desktop OSAug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3thats scaryAug 08 11:26
_goblinI used Workbench 1.3..........whats your point?Aug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3I need to find a new OS x_xAug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yeah, now only if microsoft didnt change that much]Aug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3I mean, its nutsAug 08 11:26
oiaohmSolarias or BSD?  Diablo-D3Aug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3they keep saying "we dont change windows, we're afraid of breaking old apps"Aug 08 11:26
oiaohmIts not like either of us would want to learn a huge ammount of new stuff.Aug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3so why do old apps break every release?Aug 08 11:26
Diablo-D3I mean, not boring old apps no one usesAug 08 11:27
Diablo-D3but important onesAug 08 11:27
oiaohmBuild OS with no test cases Odds go up.Aug 08 11:27
Diablo-D3I keep using the same crap on linux for years on endAug 08 11:27
Diablo-D3and linux has done ten times more development in the same period of timeAug 08 11:27
_goblinis that a complaint?Aug 08 11:27
oiaohmHave stack of coders who think bugs that do incorrect things can be used as useful features.Aug 08 11:27
Diablo-D3_goblin: its a complaint against windowsAug 08 11:27
_goblinah...Aug 08 11:27
_goblinjust so Im clear.Aug 08 11:27
oiaohmBasically windows is doomed to be crap.Aug 08 11:27
Diablo-D3seriously, I hate that goddamned thingAug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3and even if I get away from itAug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3no matter how far I runAug 08 11:28
_goblinIm having a little trouble understanding what it is you actually do like.....Aug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3windows is there.Aug 08 11:28
_goblinmaybe thats just me.Aug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3_goblin: I "like" linuxAug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3I accept it as the least shitty optionAug 08 11:28
oiaohmI am not as picky.Aug 08 11:28
_goblinlolAug 08 11:28
_goblincleverAug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3_goblin: its like XAug 08 11:28
oiaohmBSD Linux Solarias all of them I can be happy in.Aug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3X is the second worst display system ever designed....Aug 08 11:28
Diablo-D3all others are tied for first.Aug 08 11:28
_goblinif I remember you are the command line champion? (looking at my notes)Aug 08 11:29
_goblinwe had a conversation 3 weeks ago about it.Aug 08 11:29
oiaohmAuto complete and manAug 08 11:29
Diablo-D3_goblin: I do use it, but only because its really the only option thats quick and preciseAug 08 11:29
_goblinI believe....Aug 08 11:29
oiaohmUnix idea of man makes commandline so useful.Aug 08 11:29
Diablo-D3I dont hate the gui, I use it a lotAug 08 11:29
oiaohmI am mixed.Aug 08 11:29
Diablo-D3but I use whats suited for the task at handAug 08 11:29
_goblinthats not really what you said at the time is it...Aug 08 11:29
*tacone (n=Adium@151.81.148.250) has joined #boycottnovellAug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3games? gui. the internet? gui.Aug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3actual work? the command lineAug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3I'm actually impressed with Eclipse, btwAug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3its the first time I've coded large scale apps without xterm openAug 08 11:30
oiaohmactual work for me little more complex.Aug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3I think I can stop hating IDEs nowAug 08 11:30
oiaohmSome things like simulations of hardware work lot better with graphical.Aug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3I'll just hate all IDEs that aren't EclipseAug 08 11:30
Diablo-D3oiaohm: well, it dependsAug 08 11:31
_goblinthats a start....hate is unhealthyAug 08 11:31
Diablo-D3_goblin: hate is what gets me through the dayAug 08 11:31
oiaohmkdevelop I find getting there.Aug 08 11:31
_goblinIm sure... ;)Aug 08 11:31
Diablo-D3if I didn't hate, I'd be yet another generic user.Aug 08 11:31
_goblinand that would be bad because?Aug 08 11:31
Diablo-D3and I dont want to run windowsAug 08 11:31
Diablo-D3I'm not apathetic enough to run windowsAug 08 11:31
oiaohmEclipse would be nice if it was not a resource hog.Aug 08 11:31
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I have 8 gigs of memoryAug 08 11:31
Diablo-D3java simply doesnt have it in it to hog that muchAug 08 11:32
oiaohmI run blender and other 3d modeling things at times.Aug 08 11:32
Diablo-D3I actually get worse shit out of X leaking memoryAug 08 11:32
oiaohm12 Gb is not enough at times.Aug 08 11:32
Diablo-D3because fglrx has a new leak on suspend/hibernate bug on 2.6.29 and upAug 08 11:32
oiaohmkdevelop I can be rendering something complex and using it most of the time.Aug 08 11:32
_goblinSo Diablo-D3: my l337 friend/CoDeR/H@ckOR why would it be bad to be a generic user?Aug 08 11:32
Diablo-D3_goblin: I'd be using windows.Aug 08 11:33
Diablo-D3if windows was my only option, I'd probably quit computers altogetherAug 08 11:33
_goblinbut I thought you said many of the lamers were using Linux now, hence Ubuntu.Aug 08 11:33
Diablo-D3well, Im afraid that many of them are coming hereAug 08 11:33
Diablo-D3I'm not entirely sure yetAug 08 11:33
oiaohmWe get a lot who have the idea that Linux has to turn into windows.Aug 08 11:33
Diablo-D3ubuntu could theoretically just suckAug 08 11:33
DaemonFCUbuntu used to be OKAug 08 11:33
oiaohmIt drives us up wall _goblin.Aug 08 11:33
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: ubuntu used to be debianAug 08 11:34
DaemonFCit started going awry about 2 years agoAug 08 11:34
schestowitz_goblin: Just seen your thoughtful comment. Thanls.Aug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3I tried ubuntu for less than a yearAug 08 11:34
_goblinnp...it needed to be said.Aug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3and then it started rapidly mutating into crapAug 08 11:34
DaemonFCit finally became, unusable in April of this yearAug 08 11:34
DaemonFCfor me, anywayAug 08 11:34
oiaohmIt also annoying to us who follow stablity that stupid things like pulseaudio get forced on new users.Aug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3I dont mind debian taking in things from ubuntu, but only when those things are worth usingAug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3oiaohm: OH GODAug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3I HATE PULSEAUDIOAug 08 11:34
oiaohmpulseaudio is not ready for genernal usage.Aug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3holy crap do I hate pulse audioAug 08 11:34
Diablo-D3its so badAug 08 11:35
DaemonFCPulseaudio is not automatically a bad thingAug 08 11:35
_goblinoiaohm: I have no problem with new users and Linux, as long as they are prepared to learn a new system and not expect everything on a plate.....Aug 08 11:35
DaemonFCUbuntu got it implemented very wrongAug 08 11:35
DaemonFCand dumbed downAug 08 11:35
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I dont careAug 08 11:35
oiaohmPulseaudio is a bad thing.Aug 08 11:35
oiaohmBecause its alsa emulation does not work right.Aug 08 11:35
Diablo-D3it made me look at libasound's source codeAug 08 11:35
_goblinbut then if a user has a limited purpose for using their machine, whats wrong with Ubuntu....Aug 08 11:35
Diablo-D3so I could get resampling working rightAug 08 11:35
_goblinsome people simply want to surf/email.Aug 08 11:35
oiaohmSo lot of old applications are doomed with Pulseaudio DaemonFCAug 08 11:36
schestowitzThe problem new Linux users have is lack of understanding, which is a side-effect of WIndowsAug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3games are doomed tooAug 08 11:36
DaemonFCwhen Ubuntu implemented Pulseaudio, I was fairly horrifiedAug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3its like esound all over againAug 08 11:36
oiaohmOk when Pulseaudio works correctly then it should be inculded as default.Aug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3I had games that would randomly spurt audioAug 08 11:36
oiaohmUntil then it should have been opt in.Aug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3I mean, they'red be no sample lossAug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3they depended on the sample clock in alsaAug 08 11:36
schestowitzIf you approach someone who does not understand that multiple OSes can reside on "a PC" for exampleAug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3so they'd totally chokeAug 08 11:36
DaemonFCwell, Fedora of course was one of the first to have itAug 08 11:36
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I forcefully opted myself outAug 08 11:36
oiaohmTo make pulseaudio work right also required the real-time branch of the Linux kernel to merge in.Aug 08 11:37
DaemonFCbecause Fedora is always one of the first to have everythingAug 08 11:37
DaemonFCregardless of how ready it isAug 08 11:37
Diablo-D3oiaohm: OH GOD NOAug 08 11:37
schestowitzTHat's why Microsoft does the branding on boxes and even keyboards (Windows icons), then gives the illusions, e.g. at shops, that all computers just 'come' with WindowsAug 08 11:37
_goblintrue, but then thats why I stand by my view of an equal balance of users on all platforms rather that one company ruling the roost.Aug 08 11:37
Diablo-D3oiaohm: you know why?Aug 08 11:37
oiaohmFedora is a development branch.Aug 08 11:37
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I tried RT mode in paAug 08 11:37
Diablo-D3oiaohm: it started trying to corrupt my hard drive.Aug 08 11:37
Diablo-D3I have no clue whyAug 08 11:37
Diablo-D3it couldnt corrupt it in a way that'd over take raid 1Aug 08 11:37
oiaohmKnow exactly why.Aug 08 11:37
DaemonFCthe Windows key is overlookedAug 08 11:38
oiaohmBecause there are a few real-time patches are hacks.Aug 08 11:38
DaemonFCit does more than jsut open the start menuAug 08 11:38
oiaohmNot correct implementations Diablo-D3Aug 08 11:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: well I very quickly got rid of that shitAug 08 11:38
Diablo-D3and you know what?Aug 08 11:38
Diablo-D3we wouldnt need RT if the linux sched wasnt shitAug 08 11:38
DaemonFCssacMac keyboards have that clover leaf key thingAug 08 11:38
oiaohmTo be merged main line they will have to become proper implementation.Aug 08 11:38
DaemonFCthe Command keyAug 08 11:38
oiaohmDiablo-D3: it is not the scheduler.Aug 08 11:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: we need to go back to a simple time slice schedAug 08 11:38
DaemonFCerr, Mac keyboardsAug 08 11:38
oiaohmYou have that badly wrong.Aug 08 11:38
Diablo-D3it _is_ the schedAug 08 11:38
oiaohmNo its locking.Aug 08 11:39
Diablo-D3we could do soft realtime if the sched workedAug 08 11:39
oiaohmeven if scheduler wanted to give some realtime it could not perfectly.Aug 08 11:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: there should be no locks anywhere in realtime code anyhowAug 08 11:39
oiaohmCurrent realtime over rides a lock hopefully when it not doing something critical like a disk write.Aug 08 11:40
Diablo-D3there should be no locks in the kernelAug 08 11:40
oiaohmExactly.Aug 08 11:40
Diablo-D3notice I said shouldAug 08 11:40
Diablo-D3Im aware theres severalAug 08 11:40
Diablo-D3a lot have been removed because its fucktarded and its bad for performance anyhowAug 08 11:40
oiaohmthat is what the real-time tree merge is working on getting rid off.Aug 08 11:40
Diablo-D3driver tasks should not be able to be preempted anyhowAug 08 11:40
Diablo-D3I dont care how hard your realtime requirement is, quit fucking with shitAug 08 11:40
oiaohmDepends on the driver task.Aug 08 11:41
Diablo-D3_any_ driver taskAug 08 11:41
Diablo-D3there actually should be "cant preempt" blocks in CAug 08 11:41
Diablo-D3the kernel should be littered with themAug 08 11:41
oiaohmIf all drivers could not be premented Linux would not run.Aug 08 11:42
Diablo-D3oiaohm: not trueAug 08 11:42
oiaohmWith any performance.Aug 08 11:42
Diablo-D3not entirely trueAug 08 11:42
Diablo-D3[07:02:35] <Diablo-D3> there actually should be "cant preempt" blocks in CAug 08 11:42
DaemonFCWell, Wine runs almost all my favorite gamesAug 08 11:42
Diablo-D3this would fix it.Aug 08 11:42
oiaohmThere are a lot of operation that are not critical to be done quicky.Aug 08 11:42
oiaohmJust have to be done.Aug 08 11:43
DaemonFCI'd probably move over to Linux full time were it not for some problems with Flash and Windows Live Messenger connectivityAug 08 11:43
oiaohmThere are particular operations where particular bits of hardware can lock up if not answered in time.Aug 08 11:43
oiaohmSo there needs to be some prementing in kernel space.Aug 08 11:43
oiaohmUnless you want big large grimlims.Aug 08 11:43
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: flash sucksAug 08 11:44
DaemonFCit doesAug 08 11:44
Diablo-D3just admit it sucks and you'll be happierAug 08 11:44
DaemonFCI'm not sticking up for FlashAug 08 11:44
DaemonFCbut Windows is the only thing they bother to make sure it works well onAug 08 11:44
Diablo-D3I keep XP installed in vbox, btw, just for one thingAug 08 11:44
Diablo-D3photoshopAug 08 11:44
DaemonFCeven Mac version has problemsAug 08 11:44
DaemonFCthe Linux build is some third world dogshit thoughAug 08 11:44
oiaohmWindows for flash ok why.Aug 08 11:45
DaemonFChmmm, the vinyl transfer of this Pink Floyd album went really reall wellAug 08 11:46
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: linux isnt so bad anymoreAug 08 11:46
oiaohmFlash is one of those problems that I have not had since version 10 flash from adobe.Aug 08 11:46
Diablo-D3I was about to firebomb adobe's hq if flash crashed firefox one more damned timeAug 08 11:46
Diablo-D3then 10 for 64bit came outAug 08 11:46
DaemonFCFlash is a pain in the ass now on LinuxAug 08 11:47
oiaohmWhat version.Aug 08 11:47
DaemonFCthat's an upgrade from a cfew years ago when it barely worked at allAug 08 11:47
oiaohmPlease don't be using the open source versions.Aug 08 11:47
DaemonFCFlash 10 from AdobeAug 08 11:47
oiaohmI had 9 working fine in 64 bit after major messing around.Aug 08 11:47
DaemonFCboth 32 and 64-bit versionsAug 08 11:47
Diablo-D3oiaohm: noAug 08 11:47
oiaohmMust be the sites you visit.Aug 08 11:47
Diablo-D332-bit plugins in 64-bit works great for one reasonAug 08 11:48
Diablo-D3you know why?Aug 08 11:48
oiaohmIe 32 bit wrapper Diablo-D3Aug 08 11:48
Diablo-D3nspluginwrapper doesnt nuke youur browserAug 08 11:48
Diablo-D3I actually wish firefox did this by default for everythingAug 08 11:48
DaemonFCthe wrapped version of Flash can't access anything on my webcamAug 08 11:48
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: so?Aug 08 11:48
Diablo-D3webcams suckAug 08 11:48
DaemonFCand the 64-bit version can't acces the microphoneAug 08 11:48
Diablo-D3quit doing interactive porn shitAug 08 11:48
oiaohmInsteall the correct 32 bit libs DaemonFCAug 08 11:48
DaemonFCI didAug 08 11:48
DaemonFCit's good enough to play flv, that's about allAug 08 11:49
oiaohmThere are extras to access web cam.Aug 08 11:49
oiaohmthat most distributions don't include in there 32 bit mode.Aug 08 11:49
oiaohmon 64 bit systems.Aug 08 11:49
Diablo-D3uhAug 08 11:49
Diablo-D3what else is flash for but stupid games and youtube?Aug 08 11:49
Diablo-D3I mean, its flashAug 08 11:49
Diablo-D3what do you expect?Aug 08 11:49
Diablo-D3if I wanted real shit in a browser, I'd write java appletsAug 08 11:50
DaemonFCyou know, I never really saw Java get real popularAug 08 11:50
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I will kick your assAug 08 11:50
DaemonFCthere were a few Java IRC clients but those are all Flash nowAug 08 11:50
Diablo-D3wait, you mean applets?Aug 08 11:50
Diablo-D3yeah, applets never got popularAug 08 11:50
oiaohmFlash will disappear in time.Aug 08 11:51
Diablo-D3people were afraid of getting shit done in a browserAug 08 11:51
DaemonFCyeah, applets never went anywhereAug 08 11:51
DaemonFCand neverAug 08 11:51
DaemonFC*willAug 08 11:51
Diablo-D3you know what I really have a hardon for?Aug 08 11:51
Diablo-D3html5 + modern ajaxy jsAug 08 11:51
oiaohmstandard will win out in end.Aug 08 11:51
Diablo-D3that'll come in and just KILL everythingAug 08 11:51
Diablo-D3oiaohm: it aint thatAug 08 11:51
DaemonFCJava has more or less been made obsolete by Flash and AJAX applicationsAug 08 11:51
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: noAug 08 11:52
Diablo-D3you're thinking of the problem wrongAug 08 11:52
oiaohmJava and Flash will both be nuked by googles native code idea.Aug 08 11:52
Diablo-D3flash was obsolete before it was madeAug 08 11:52
Diablo-D3java is for a _completely different task_Aug 08 11:52
twitterI wonder what neighborlee thought was faster about Vista 7 than Vista.  Benchmarks keep coming back "mixed" at best http://slashdot.org/submission/1051033/Windows-7-Still-Slower-than-XP-and-UbuntuAug 08 11:52
Diablo-D3I'd write the browser itself in javaAug 08 11:52
Diablo-D3for speed, stability, and less memory usage than firefoxAug 08 11:52
Diablo-D3I'd write unsafe stuff in javascript (ie, scripts in websites)Aug 08 11:53
Diablo-D3javascript is perfect for small stupid stuffAug 08 11:53
Diablo-D3its probably the best lightweight scripting language out there thats popularAug 08 11:53
twitterShame that BN would pass on that kind of opinion, " It IS faster than Vista as such, but it does have some problem spots to be sure."Aug 08 11:53
Diablo-D3you know whats _really_ great?Aug 08 11:54
Diablo-D3rhino.Aug 08 11:54
twitterPerhaps in practice Vista ties itself in file indexing knots that don't show up in out of the box benchmarks.  I would not expect Vista 7 to have resolved those issues because Vista 7 is mostly a marketing rerun and damage control.Aug 08 11:55
Diablo-D3javascript engine for java that compiles js to sandboxed jvm bytecodeAug 08 11:55
oiaohmtwitter: Windows 7 is also featureless compared to all past versions of windows releases.Aug 08 11:56
twitterSuch nonsense even pollutes kerneltrap.  For instance, here http://kerneltrap.org/node/14148Aug 08 11:56
oiaohmI have a nice little test.   Can anyone name a advertised feature why you should buy Windows 7Aug 08 11:57
twitterSomeone says, "  So for most file workloads we give Windows a  20%-30% performance edge, for almost nothing. "Aug 08 11:57
twitterWhich, of course, is bat shit crazy.Aug 08 11:57
oiaohmPerformance is not a new feature to use.Aug 08 11:58
twitterNT file sytems have infamous metadata and it shows quite plainly in benchmarks.Aug 08 11:58
DaemonFCI found a total conversion WAD for Doom II that lets you play as Tux and changes the story to make Microsoft responsible for the monsters :PAug 08 11:58
oiaohmVista the means to use USB keys are swap space in a hurry.Aug 08 11:58
twitterand everyday system use.Aug 08 11:58
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: god thats oldAug 08 11:58
oiaohmXP's included firewall.Aug 08 11:58
DaemonFCyeah, still funAug 08 11:58
Diablo-D3I played with that long agoAug 08 11:58
Diablo-D3oiaohm: btw, noAug 08 11:59
oiaohmBasically every NT based OS going backwards you can name something.Aug 08 11:59
Diablo-D3vista added something that allowed certain flash keys to be used as a fast cacheAug 08 11:59
DaemonFCI actually had my ISP at the time tell me to turn off the XP firewallAug 08 11:59
Diablo-D3only certain keys could do it because most keys really suck and vista would kill themAug 08 11:59
DaemonFC:PAug 08 11:59
Diablo-D3but its a stupid hackAug 08 11:59
Diablo-D3just buy a damned SSDAug 08 12:00
oiaohmI was refering to what you were seeing advertised before release Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:00
Diablo-D3oiaohm: well, I could "see" swapAug 08 12:00
oiaohmNot what it truly did after real world release.Aug 08 12:00
Diablo-D3swap would kill the key, obviouslyAug 08 12:00
Diablo-D3but it'd work if USB didnt suckAug 08 12:00
DaemonFCWindows Firewall is the only thing that kept XP from being pwned 3 seconds after plugging the ethernet cable inAug 08 12:00
Diablo-D3you'd really need an esata "key"Aug 08 12:00
DaemonFCso many damned zombie PCs out there port scanning for infectable hostsAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: are you an idiot?Aug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3who plugs a computer directly into the internet anymoreAug 08 12:01
DaemonFCin 2001?Aug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3hint: no one, it wouldnt even work rightAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3in 2001 sureAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3not todayAug 08 12:01
oiaohmMost plug into a Linux or bsd router they call a modem.Aug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3oiaohm: "yes"Aug 08 12:01
DaemonFCmost routers have a decent firewallAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3depends who runs the pppoeAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: noAug 08 12:01
oiaohmNow a major exploit on Linux would cause havoic.Aug 08 12:01
DaemonFCthe Windows one is really redundant if you have a routerAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3its not the firewiall aspectAug 08 12:01
Diablo-D3its the NAT aspectAug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3a virus cant infect windows if it cant connectAug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3this is why everything relies on a trojan nowadaysAug 08 12:02
oiaohmXP still the time or major dialup connections when it was released.Aug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3the only things that can infect across a network are LANs or other open networksAug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yes butAug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3XP didnt ship with a firewallAug 08 12:02
oiaohmSo at the time of XP the firewall was a selling feature.Aug 08 12:02
schestowitzHoly c*. http://www.sxc.hu/photo/395123Aug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3that was added laterAug 08 12:02
schestowitzThat's some big lizardAug 08 12:02
Diablo-D3schestowitz: a komodo dragon?Aug 08 12:03
oiaohmLook at XP sales graphics.Aug 08 12:03
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I'd rather notAug 08 12:03
oiaohmDiablo-D3:  it took off with the firewall feature.Aug 08 12:03
Diablo-D3yeah, but wasnt it added in like sp2?Aug 08 12:03
oiaohmYep Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:04
oiaohmsp2 was also when most peoples windows 98 secound additon started packing in.Aug 08 12:05
Diablo-D3I dunno thoughAug 08 12:05
Diablo-D3this shit just pisses me offAug 08 12:05
Diablo-D3I meanAug 08 12:05
Diablo-D3like I said earlierAug 08 12:05
Diablo-D3no matter how far I runAug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3theres windowsAug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3you have these assholes who bitch "oh my windows machine doesnt work"Aug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3WELL BUY A DAMNED MACAug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3"but I cant afford one"Aug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3THEN GET A JOBAug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3"I had one but I was laid off"Aug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3THEN DONT VOTE FOR BUSH TWICE NEXT TIMEAug 08 12:06
Diablo-D3seriouslyAug 08 12:07
oiaohmWindows is only where it is because it was the cheepest in the market at one point in time.Aug 08 12:07
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but it never was the cheapestAug 08 12:07
Diablo-D3apple wasAug 08 12:07
oiaohmTime of dos.Aug 08 12:07
oiaohmIt was cheeper than apple that got them market share.Aug 08 12:07
Diablo-D3apple has always been the cheapest because time == moneyAug 08 12:07
Diablo-D3TCO is the only thing that mattersAug 08 12:08
Diablo-D3I can go grab a ten year old mac and actually get a mild amount of work done on itAug 08 12:08
oiaohmI was refering to aquirement price.Aug 08 12:08
oiaohmAquirment price got MS market.Aug 08 12:08
schestowitzThe Bush dynasty is maybe preparing the next generation to b president for 8 yearsAug 08 12:08
schestowitzIIRC, he has two daughters *shudder*Aug 08 12:08
Diablo-D3I can buy a ten year old windows pc (and use any windows ever, before or after) and get nothing doneAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3I can buy a ten year old windows pc and slap linux on it, and get a mild amount of work done on itAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3seriouslyAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3I am not made of timeAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3or moneyAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3I'm probably the poorest person in hereAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3I simply don't have time for jackasseryAug 08 12:09
Diablo-D3if linux didnt exist, I'd own all macsAug 08 12:10
oiaohmExactly Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:10
Diablo-D3I cant afford to otherwiseAug 08 12:10
oiaohmTime has changed.Aug 08 12:10
Diablo-D3Im talking both ten years ago and nowAug 08 12:10
oiaohmI remember 1994 with manual configuration of most things.Aug 08 12:10
oiaohmIt takes long time to break built up market motion.Aug 08 12:10
oiaohmIe dos then windows Ms has built up quite a bit of speed.Aug 08 12:11
Diablo-D3oiaohm: its not thatAug 08 12:11
oiaohmthen Vista slamed the breaks on.Aug 08 12:11
Diablo-D3its that 90% of the world is too stupid to be aliveAug 08 12:11
Diablo-D3"hey, lets buy a $500 65" TV"Aug 08 12:11
Diablo-D3but the TV will die in a yearAug 08 12:11
Diablo-D3"so Ill buy another one"Aug 08 12:11
Diablo-D35 years later, my $1000 42" is still going strong, and they've spent 2 and a half times thatAug 08 12:12
Diablo-D3and mine _still_ looks better than their newest oneAug 08 12:12
Diablo-D3seriously, I dont know where these people get their moneyAug 08 12:12
oiaohmhttp://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_50  << I like.Aug 08 12:12
oiaohmNormal stupidity Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:12
Diablo-D3oiaohm: how can people be that stupidAug 08 12:13
oiaohmMost caused by never been taught money management.  So they cannot work out what is a good deal and what is a bad deal.Aug 08 12:13
Diablo-D3I mean, seriously, is there some secret trick to it?Aug 08 12:13
oiaohmSo the cheepest win.Aug 08 12:13
Diablo-D3I'd love to take a vacation and turn my brain offAug 08 12:13
Diablo-D3I could just sit back and relax all day and collect welfare checks and eat off solid gold platesAug 08 12:13
oiaohmMajor reason why netbooks sold like hot cakes they were cheep.Aug 08 12:14
Diablo-D3actuallyAug 08 12:15
Diablo-D3I wanna buy an ion boardAug 08 12:15
Diablo-D3and run windows on itAug 08 12:15
Diablo-D3it'd be perfect for .... somethingAug 08 12:15
Diablo-D3I just havent figured out whatAug 08 12:15
Diablo-D3like, windows media center cant do bluray yetAug 08 12:15
Diablo-D3it _can_ use codecs that offer hardware accelerationAug 08 12:16
Diablo-D3so I could playback h264 1080p at high bitrates (such as ripped off a bluray)Aug 08 12:16
Diablo-D3but I cant play the bluray itselfAug 08 12:16
Diablo-D3and 7's media center looks goodAug 08 12:16
oiaohmhttp://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/zotac-ion-atom,2300.html  << someone has already Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:16
Diablo-D3oiaohm: no noAug 08 12:17
Diablo-D3I was going to buy one of thoseAug 08 12:17
Diablo-D3the 330 versionAug 08 12:17
Diablo-D3but windows keeps fucking it upAug 08 12:17
Diablo-D3I want a HTPC thats silentAug 08 12:17
Diablo-D3but .... mehAug 08 12:17
Diablo-D3this is why I hate windowsAug 08 12:18
Diablo-D3everytime I wanna go use itAug 08 12:18
Diablo-D3microsoft has forgotten somethingAug 08 12:18
oiaohmReally I am looking forward to KDE 4.4 and network transferable plasma applets.Aug 08 12:18
Diablo-D3I just dont get itAug 08 12:18
Diablo-D3was I born a century too early?Aug 08 12:19
oiaohmMost likely.Aug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3all I want is a single box that does everything I'd ever wantAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3with no painAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3no ugly UIsAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3no stupid hacksAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3no fucking bullshitAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3I can build the hardwareAug 08 12:20
oiaohmLinux is heading that path slowly.Aug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3Infact, I haveAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3my workstation can physically do it allAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3but like, go look at mythtvAug 08 12:20
Diablo-D3or xbmcAug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3they have shitty stupid UIs designed by idiotsAug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3otoh you have media center on win 7Aug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3an absolutely beautiful and elegant UIAug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3BUT YOU CANT DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH ITAug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3I just don't get itAug 08 12:21
oiaohmKDE is also entering the media center game.Aug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3there are days I want to bash my head on my deskAug 08 12:21
Diablo-D3today is one of those daysAug 08 12:22
oiaohmThat might give it a chance of being done right.Aug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wellAug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3I wanted windows so I could just ignore the fact I cant get digital cable any other wayAug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3or VOD services like netflix or amazon or whateverAug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3Im never going to have those on linuxAug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3and honestly I dont careAug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3I could have one windows box to do itAug 08 12:22
Diablo-D3I could live with thatAug 08 12:22
oiaohmThat is what you are not seeing.Aug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3like, I hate pirating shitAug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3you know why?Aug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3its a pita and its a waste of my timeAug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3I just wanna click on something, download it, and watch itAug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3I dont care if I have to pay a couple bucksAug 08 12:23
cubezzzyou need windows to get digital cable?Aug 08 12:23
oiaohmHave you not been noticing the numbers of items released for Linux is going up.Aug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3cubezzz: yesAug 08 12:23
Diablo-D3cubezzz: linux doesnt support the digital tunersAug 08 12:24
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but I dont have a _single central solution_Aug 08 12:24
oiaohmYou are usa Diablo-D3?Aug 08 12:24
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yesAug 08 12:24
oiaohmPoor unlucky bugger.Aug 08 12:24
Diablo-D3and if I had sat, btw, I'd be fuckedAug 08 12:24
cubezzzummm what about  pchdtv?Aug 08 12:24
Diablo-D3theres no way to get satAug 08 12:24
Diablo-D3thats why I'd rather all of this shit dies anyhowAug 08 12:24
oiaohmUsa uses different standard to rest of world.Aug 08 12:24
Diablo-D3I'd rather watch TV directly from the channelsAug 08 12:24
oiaohmSo it has crappy open source turner support.Aug 08 12:25
Diablo-D3I wouldn't mind, say, paying cnn and fox directly for a ~8mbps 1080 h264 sourceAug 08 12:25
oiaohmdvb-t works great on Linux..Aug 08 12:25
Diablo-D3but you know what the fun part is?Aug 08 12:25
Diablo-D3I dont even have 8mbps internetAug 08 12:25
Diablo-D3because people like pissing me offAug 08 12:26
Diablo-D3what in holy hell is wrong with this planetAug 08 12:26
cubezzzI was thinking of trying FTA satellite just to see what it's likeAug 08 12:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell News Summary – Part I: Hackweek, KDE in OpenSUSE, and More http://bit.ly/3CFo0yAug 08 12:26
oiaohmDo you over there have ISP's providing tv channels streamed as past of internet contract that don't count to quota Diablo-D3?Aug 08 12:27
oiaohmpast/partAug 08 12:27
Diablo-D3oiaohm: no, because its not usable IPTVAug 08 12:27
cubezzzDiablo-D3, do you use UHF antenna for tv?Aug 08 12:27
Diablo-D3cubezzz: OTA is largely dead in the USAug 08 12:27
Diablo-D3oiaohm: most cable companies are not switching to IPTV because they're moronsAug 08 12:28
cubezzzI'm in Canada and I get all the Buffalo affiliatesAug 08 12:28
Diablo-D3oiaohm: the ones are have totally jetisoned their entire cable network and laid newAug 08 12:28
Diablo-D3oiaohm: so they do triple play all over IPAug 08 12:28
oiaohmIn australia we are starting to lay fiber.Aug 08 12:28
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but you cant get the IPTV data and play on a computerAug 08 12:28
oiaohmgod that suxs.Aug 08 12:29
Diablo-D3almost everybody who isnt a fucking moron is doing fiber to the neighborhoodAug 08 12:29
oiaohmAll our ISP provided tv channels pay threw a flash player frount end.Aug 08 12:29
Diablo-D3and then using either high bandwidth DSL or DOCSIS 3 to get to the houseAug 08 12:29
oiaohmSo OS netural.Aug 08 12:29
Diablo-D3(docsis3 is cable internet, but this doesnt make them a cable provider(Aug 08 12:29
Diablo-D3you have verizon, however, who did fiber to the homeAug 08 12:30
Diablo-D3which is costly, retarded, and impossible to upgrade usefullyAug 08 12:30
oiaohmWe have almost no cable tv here.Aug 08 12:30
oiaohmIt either sat.Aug 08 12:30
oiaohmOr isp provided.Aug 08 12:30
Diablo-D3oiaohm: you still have "cable tv" though in the weakest senseAug 08 12:30
Diablo-D3cable providers are quitting the cable TV business and doing iptvAug 08 12:30
cubezzzit's Rogers and Bell up hereAug 08 12:30
Diablo-D3but as I saidAug 08 12:30
Diablo-D3they got rid of their cable networkAug 08 12:31
cubezzzduopoly :-/Aug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3and laid new and did fiber to the neighborhoodAug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3so its still cable coming into your houseAug 08 12:31
oiaohmWe basically never had the cable network layed all bar in a few exculsive subbers.Aug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3but the last mile network is totally newAug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I would get sat, btwAug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3but I have treesAug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3neither of the two sat companies could get a signalAug 08 12:31
Diablo-D3I had both outAug 08 12:31
cubezzzDiablo-D3, where in the States are you?Aug 08 12:32
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Diablo-D3cubezzz: maineAug 08 12:32
Diablo-D3we cant get OTA here at all unless you're in the same town as the towerAug 08 12:32
oiaohmShould send you the tree killer.   One of the uplink sat dishes here used for internet transmits and killed any tree branches in its beam path.Aug 08 12:32
Diablo-D3oiaohm: bwaha, what?Aug 08 12:32
Diablo-D3shit, I'd just set that up and not even use itAug 08 12:33
Diablo-D3just mow down half a forest with itAug 08 12:33
oiaohmIe sat internet .Aug 08 12:33
cubezzzI'm about 80 miles from Buffalo, so no prob with ABC, NBC and CBSAug 08 12:33
Diablo-D3cubezzz: you're getting digital OTA right?Aug 08 12:33
cubezzzyesAug 08 12:33
oiaohmThe microwave few is a very effective tree killer.Aug 08 12:33
oiaohmfew/freqAug 08 12:33
Diablo-D3cubezzz: digital OTA wont go through hillsAug 08 12:33
cubezzzdigital and analog actuallyAug 08 12:33
Diablo-D3cubezzz: maine has very badly positioned hillsAug 08 12:33
Diablo-D3and where Im at, if the land was flat, I'd get a perfect signal no matter the weatherAug 08 12:34
cubezzzTVOntario is still analog onlyAug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3the trees and buildings wouldnt stop it eitherAug 08 12:34
cubezzzDiablo-D3, I think I'm fortunate in that regardAug 08 12:34
oiaohmUSA suxs again.Aug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3oiaohm: noAug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3OTA sucksAug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3its a bad ideaAug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3also, OTA only does the major fourAug 08 12:34
DaemonFChttp://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Mars_WarAug 08 12:34
oiaohmAll out free to air tv is digital and analog.Aug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3abc, cbs, nbc, and foxAug 08 12:34
Diablo-D3oiaohm: they got rid of analog because it sucksAug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3oiaohm: analog ANYTHING needs to dieAug 08 12:35
cubezzzdon't forget WNED, but maybe that's too far from youAug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3cubezzz: Im talking in the USAug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3oh, and PBSAug 08 12:35
oiaohmWe still have analog here for another few years.Aug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3so 5Aug 08 12:35
cubezzzWNED is west NY :)Aug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3oiaohm: digital was manditory because they wanted the frequency space backAug 08 12:35
oiaohmUntil they work out how to fix the black spots.Aug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3oiaohm: digital runs on _some_ of the same channels on VHF and UHFAug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3but like 3/4th of the frequency space is open againAug 08 12:35
Diablo-D3that space is the best space for long distance high bandwidth transmissionAug 08 12:36
cubezzzsometimes I wonder if the U.S. gets any Canadian TVAug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3cubezzz: I do on cableAug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3I get CBCAug 08 12:36
oiaohmWe only have like 5 channels before digital.Aug 08 12:36
oiaohmFree to air.Aug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3oiaohm: there is no point to ever have any analogAug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3periodAug 08 12:36
oiaohmWe now have like 15 free to air.Aug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3like, with analog, no high defAug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3no stereo audio either most of the timeAug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3and the audio quality is pretty lowAug 08 12:36
oiaohmanalog is having longer range of pick up.Aug 08 12:36
oiaohmStill.Aug 08 12:36
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wrongAug 08 12:37
oiaohmNo here still.Aug 08 12:37
Diablo-D3thats completely falseAug 08 12:37
cubezzzI get some audio dropouts on ABC, but not too badAug 08 12:37
cubezzzthere's no analog at all now in the States?Aug 08 12:37
Diablo-D3cubezzz: noAug 08 12:37
Diablo-D3just radioAug 08 12:37
Diablo-D3and no one cares about radioAug 08 12:37
oiaohmIt should be false but ghosting that destroys digital past recive.Aug 08 12:37
oiaohmStill shows a viewable picture on analog.Aug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3and radio stations in very big metro areas have digital radio tooAug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3plus theres siriuxAug 08 12:38
oiaohmBasically there are still a few head aches in the tech to be solved.Aug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3er siriusAug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: btw noAug 08 12:38
cubezzzI've lost my good VHF antenna, so buffalo radio is goneAug 08 12:38
cubezzzyeah, I still listen to some radioAug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: you can digitally process a digital signal and fix itAug 08 12:38
oiaohmtheory yes.Aug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: you can get really far with a good reciever/amp systemAug 08 12:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: TV doesnt have it _yet_, but it already existsAug 08 12:39
oiaohmReal world near reflective mountains no.Aug 08 12:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: sat is 10 years ahead of tv, wifi is 5 years ahead of TVAug 08 12:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: what you're talking about is getting a "watchable" analog signalAug 08 12:39
cubezzzI thought everyone could get satellite but I guess notAug 08 12:39
Diablo-D3the signal is totally crap, you can just see stuff out of itAug 08 12:39
oiaohmIts not much damage just enough damage that the digial breaks up badly.Aug 08 12:40
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wrongAug 08 12:40
Diablo-D3you can use MISO to reconstruct some bad shitAug 08 12:40
Diablo-D3(multiple input, single output)Aug 08 12:40
oiaohmI am talking less than 15 percent screwed.Aug 08 12:40
oiaohmEven with MISO.Aug 08 12:40
oiaohmThere are particular areas that are just nasty.Aug 08 12:41
Diablo-D3yes there areAug 08 12:41
Diablo-D3where you have PHYSICAL LAND between you and the towerAug 08 12:41
Diablo-D3you're screwed no matter whatAug 08 12:41
Diablo-D3the only way to get through it is to quit living in the 1950s and get cbleAug 08 12:41
oiaohmOr Physical land behind you refelect single back.Aug 08 12:41
oiaohmSo its over lapping.Aug 08 12:41
Diablo-D3oiaohm: miso fixes ghostsAug 08 12:42
oiaohmTo a point.Aug 08 12:42
Diablo-D3it can also reconstruct a signal from ghostsAug 08 12:42
Diablo-D3which is really strange shitAug 08 12:42
oiaohmYou know the canselation effect.Aug 08 12:42
Diablo-D3yeahAug 08 12:42
Diablo-D3oiaohm: and btwAug 08 12:43
oiaohmSo you are not getting the single.Aug 08 12:43
Diablo-D3thats near impossible to doAug 08 12:43
Diablo-D3in the real worldAug 08 12:43
cubezzzI'm pretty sure I'm getting 26 digital OTA channelsAug 08 12:43
oiaohmTell that to a few locations in Australia.Aug 08 12:43
Diablo-D3oiaohm: australia is weirdAug 08 12:43
Diablo-D3you have flat rock facesAug 08 12:43
Diablo-D3those arent supposed to exist naturallyAug 08 12:43
Diablo-D3but I guess the UFOs had to land somewhere or some shitAug 08 12:44
Diablo-D3oiaohm: btwAug 08 12:44
Diablo-D3there is one hack that does workAug 08 12:44
Diablo-D3put something that absorbs your target frequency behind the antennaAug 08 12:44
Diablo-D3more often than not it fixes some back reflectionAug 08 12:44
oiaohmSome of these do something really nasty.Aug 08 12:44
Diablo-D3but it makes you deaf in that direction for omnisAug 08 12:44
oiaohmReflect from behind then reflects from in front on the single path.Aug 08 12:45
oiaohmAs I say nasty ground.Aug 08 12:45
Diablo-D3if your signal sucks, your signal sucksAug 08 12:45
Diablo-D3you cant fix thatAug 08 12:45
oiaohmanalog seams to work a little bit better on signals that sux.Aug 08 12:46
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Diablo-D3noAug 08 12:46
cubezzzI've seen antenna towers close to me that must be at least 50 feet highAug 08 12:46
Diablo-D3the human brain is just better at watching itAug 08 12:46
Diablo-D3we can "ignore" ghosts and fuzz and stupid shit like thatAug 08 12:46
Diablo-D3a computer cant.Aug 08 12:46
oiaohmEither way human is has better chance of getting a picture they can understand.Aug 08 12:46
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yes butAug 08 12:47
Diablo-D3we dont live in the 50sAug 08 12:47
Diablo-D3theres no reason for any modern nation in the world not to have wires everywhereAug 08 12:47
Diablo-D3even AUAug 08 12:47
Diablo-D3and arguably AU isnt modernAug 08 12:47
oiaohmDistance and cost.Aug 08 12:47
oiaohmAnd mungrel rocks.Aug 08 12:47
Diablo-D3yeah but likeAug 08 12:47
Diablo-D3look at how long it took AU to let your native peoples have a seat on your governmentAug 08 12:48
oiaohmIt sometimes takes 5 years to do 15 kms in places.Aug 08 12:48
oiaohmDue to how blast reistanct the rock is.Aug 08 12:48
oiaohmAustralia very old land mass.Aug 08 12:48
oiaohmSo most of the under rocks are as tough as hell.Aug 08 12:49
Diablo-D3manAug 08 12:49
Diablo-D3I'd declare the place a wastelandAug 08 12:49
Diablo-D3and prohibit people from living thereAug 08 12:49
oiaohmFunny enough some of the hardest rocks enclose the best farm land.Aug 08 12:50
oiaohmYes catch 22 Australia.Aug 08 12:50
Diablo-D3fffffffAug 08 12:50
Diablo-D3that doesnt make any sense!Aug 08 12:50
oiaohmIt does the best farm land is normally near dead volocanos.Aug 08 12:51
oiaohmAnd all the nasty ground messing around that can cause.Aug 08 12:51
oiaohmI still think it was funny one run finding industrial diamond in way.Aug 08 12:52
oiaohmThat is the other problem.   Australia is not maped were the big nasty uncutable rocks are.Aug 08 12:53
oiaohmSo its very much dig and pray.Aug 08 12:53
DaemonFCI busted out the old Doom level editor, and threw in Nazis tooAug 08 12:55
Diablo-D3why dont they just map it from outer space?Aug 08 12:55
oiaohmAustralia cabling problem would have been solved if someone worked out how to make surface cables that don't run into trouble with lighting.Aug 08 12:55
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: but it already had microsoftAug 08 12:55
Diablo-D3dohohohohohohohAug 08 12:55
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DaemonFCnow it has demons, Nazis, and Bill GatesAug 08 12:55
DaemonFC:PAug 08 12:55
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but... they haveAug 08 12:55
Diablo-D3oiaohm: optical.Aug 08 12:55
oiaohmFunny enough no that is only true for about 20 km lenths Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:56
oiaohmOnce you start talking 100 km lenths you can have light appear in optical if its on surface from no where.Aug 08 12:57
oiaohmDue to a near by lighting strike.Aug 08 12:57
Diablo-D3wtfAug 08 12:57
Diablo-D3does it hurt the optical?Aug 08 12:57
Diablo-D3because if it doesnt, just lay twoAug 08 12:58
oiaohmOptical has to be 1 meter in ground to prevent that.Aug 08 12:58
oiaohmRepeated cable will fail Diablo-D3Aug 08 12:58
Diablo-D3not if they send opposite signalsAug 08 12:58
oiaohmIt heating the glass.Aug 08 12:58
Diablo-D3so it does damage the optical?Aug 08 12:58
Diablo-D3fffffAug 08 12:58
Diablo-D3your country sucksAug 08 12:58
oiaohmYep.Aug 08 12:58
oiaohmWe have major issues getting cables in ground.Aug 08 12:59
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Diablo-D3you need to invent lasers or somethingAug 08 12:59
oiaohmGets even more fun.Aug 08 12:59
Diablo-D3I meant to drill the groundAug 08 13:00
oiaohmWe have some rocks that are radar invisable.Aug 08 13:00
oiaohmThat are hard as hell.Aug 08 13:00
Diablo-D3if they can be melted under the intense light of God, then who cares? =PAug 08 13:00
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DaemonFChttp://voices.washingtonpost.com/health-care-reform/2009/08/adl_condemns_nazi_slurs_in_hea.html?hpid=news-col-blogAug 08 13:00
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oiaohmLazer to sat looks good for australia Diablo-D3Aug 08 13:00
DaemonFCRepublican protesters carry swasticas and other Nazi crapAug 08 13:01
DaemonFCto those healthcare debatesAug 08 13:01
Diablo-D3seriously, this is why I keep saying arrest all republicansAug 08 13:01
Diablo-D3the entire party stands for terrorismAug 08 13:01
Diablo-D3they're no different than the al quedaAug 08 13:01
oiaohmMajor cabling is being plained for australia.Aug 08 13:01
oiaohmDoing it is not going to come cheep.Aug 08 13:02
DaemonFCI call them American TalibanAug 08 13:02
oiaohmOr fast Diablo-D3.   To get fiber everywhere looks like a 30 year project.Aug 08 13:02
Diablo-D3oiaohm: seriously, laser drillingAug 08 13:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] installing libraries to compile Qt to compile latest Arora. yakshaving ahoy!Aug 08 13:02
Diablo-D3borrow one of those 747s that the DoJ built with the missile eating laser on itAug 08 13:02
oiaohmWould if some of the rocks are not reflective  Diablo-D3Aug 08 13:03
Diablo-D3oiaohm: noAug 08 13:03
Diablo-D3you _dont_ want reflectiveAug 08 13:03
Diablo-D3if its reflective, it bounces the laser offAug 08 13:03
oiaohmYep we have them too.Aug 08 13:03
oiaohmThat are unbreakable buggers quicky.Aug 08 13:03
Diablo-D3have you tried nuclear weapons?Aug 08 13:03
DaemonFCit's kind of sad that the Republicans carry signs saying "Say No To Fascism!" and don't even understand that they are fascistsAug 08 13:03
oiaohmWe want to live Diablo-D3Aug 08 13:04
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yeah, if you call that living >_>Aug 08 13:04
Diablo-D3give me internet or give me deathAug 08 13:04
oiaohmWe have internet everywhere by sat.Aug 08 13:04
Diablo-D3thats not the internetAug 08 13:04
DaemonFCI don't get how they can call the Democrats fascists and socialists at the same timeAug 08 13:04
oiaohmGround base with speed is another issue.Aug 08 13:04
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: yeah reallyAug 08 13:04
DaemonFCthose are kind of the extreme opposites of the political spectrumAug 08 13:05
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: thats likes calling soviet russia a bunch of nazisAug 08 13:05
Diablo-D3both fucktards, just very different kinds of fucktardsAug 08 13:05
oiaohmThe mining down turn is also giving us a chance to do it.Aug 08 13:05
DaemonFCthey're not smart enough to understand the differenceAug 08 13:05
DaemonFCthey'll shout out any kind of shock epithet they canAug 08 13:05
oiaohmIe enough blast experts to cut threw the rocks Diablo-D3Aug 08 13:05
Diablo-D3oiaohm: seriously thoughAug 08 13:06
Diablo-D3AU is nutsAug 08 13:06
DaemonFCwe should ship out all our worst politicians to AustraliaAug 08 13:06
DaemonFCthey're already heading in that direction on their ownAug 08 13:06
DaemonFCno reason for both of us to sufferAug 08 13:06
Diablo-D3I agreeAug 08 13:07
Diablo-D3in fact, I'll pitch in for FedExAug 08 13:07
oiaohmOurs are not the worst.Aug 08 13:07
DaemonFCThe so-called Australian "Family Party" or whatever it wasAug 08 13:07
oiaohmBush is very had to beat.Aug 08 13:07
DaemonFCsounded to me like Republicans on steroidsAug 08 13:07
oiaohmFamily first party.Aug 08 13:07
oiaohmyes they are still around.Aug 08 13:07
DaemonFCI'm still trying to figure out if this extremist minoirty that the Republicans are pandering to is going to help the Democrats in the next electionAug 08 13:08
DaemonFCpeople may snap to it and become repulsed at the racist rallies and such under the guise of tax protestsAug 08 13:09
DaemonFCI'm kind of hoping that's how it goesAug 08 13:09
DaemonFC*minorityAug 08 13:09
oiaohmWe have not had a hung parlement in a while.Aug 08 13:09
oiaohmThat is when things seriously get done.Aug 08 13:09
DaemonFCour federal government was at its worst between 2000 and 2004Aug 08 13:09
Diablo-D3s/04/08/Aug 08 13:10
oiaohmThe worst thing you can do here to make sure your party does not get back in.  Is get caught taking kick backs.Aug 08 13:10
DaemonFCwhen the Republicans had the Democrats pretty much even in Congress and Dickhead Cheney got the tie breakerAug 08 13:10
DaemonFCThat scared the hell out of meAug 08 13:10
oiaohmI don't think USA politions would be trusted by any party here.Aug 08 13:10
DaemonFCyou notice that no matter how many Republicans are in office, abortion stays legal?Aug 08 13:11
DaemonFCthey don't want to overturn it because then they'd have nothing to campaign to the loonies onAug 08 13:11
oiaohmLike in queenland 1 member of a party got caught.   Number of voters wanting to vote for that party has cut to 10 of what they had.Aug 08 13:11
oiaohmFrom over 60 percent prepaird to vote for them to 6 in 1 month.Aug 08 13:11
DaemonFChere it actually got so bad that even the racist rednecks, a lot of them, broke down and voted ObamaAug 08 13:12
DaemonFCthey'll put that crap away when they're unemployed and uninsuredAug 08 13:12
DaemonFCmakes senseAug 08 13:12
DaemonFCI think they may just break it out again if their situation gets better thoughAug 08 13:12
oiaohmMaybe not.Aug 08 13:13
oiaohmracist rednecks are learning what it is to be the under dog.Aug 08 13:13
oiaohmsometimes that cures them.Aug 08 13:13
DaemonFCmaybe they should just invoke Godwins Law on those hicks?Aug 08 13:14
DaemonFCheheAug 08 13:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme IBM: UNIX to Linux Migration Rate Growing http://bit.ly/RrUZ4Aug 08 13:16
DaemonFCRepublicans = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_HitlerumAug 08 13:17
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DaemonFChttp://the.infiniteplane.com/images/post/republican-fascism.jpgAug 08 13:21
DaemonFCheheAug 08 13:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Support I'm Linux, add a #twibbon to your avatar now! - http://twibbon.com/join/Im-Linux-2Aug 08 13:21
MinceR:)Aug 08 13:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Support IE6 Must Die, add a #twibbon to your avatar now! - http://twibbon.com/join/IE6-Must-DieAug 08 13:23
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellAug 08 13:24
DaemonFCschestowitz: Regarding the Opensuse is desktop environment agnostic, yeah, probably the only distribution I've seen where one isn't pushed over the other or given better supportAug 08 13:24
DaemonFCwhich is odd considering that the rest seem to be pushing GNOME more and more while it gets worse and worseAug 08 13:25
DaemonFCoversimplification of everything in GNOME is probably the biggest reason I'm not going back to it anytime soonAug 08 13:26
Eruaranthey go to farAug 08 13:27
Eruaran*tooAug 08 13:28
cubezzzDaemonFC, so what do you use?Aug 08 13:28
EruaranTheir idea of usability is oversimplification to the point of removing features which make an app more usable...Aug 08 13:28
DaemonFCI covered that on GNOME's SoundconverterAug 08 13:28
DaemonFCuselss, absolutely uselessAug 08 13:29
DaemonFCit's really more of a problem in Gstreamer-Lame than in Soundconvertor, but they could override the defaults or just depend on Lame directly if they wantedAug 08 13:30
DaemonFCSoundKonverter in KDE addresses Lame directlyAug 08 13:30
Eruaranits idealogical to the point of not being practical... theres no awareness of contextAug 08 13:30
DaemonFCI'm kind of puzzled about why Gstreamer changed Lame's default VBR settingsAug 08 13:31
DaemonFCand implemented a hard cutoff at 16 KhzAug 08 13:31
DaemonFCthat shouldn't ever be forced on the user, but it isAug 08 13:31
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DaemonFCLame compromises with regards to scalefactor band 21, you can't eliminate all of it or the MP3 will sound bad, but you can't encode all of it either because it will cause oversampled frames leading to bitrate bloatAug 08 13:32
DaemonFCso the VBR settings use a polyphase lowpass filter and as you decrease the quality setting, it gradually lowers the thresholdAug 08 13:33
DaemonFCthis is a compromise, but anything you use Standard/V2 on should sound about as good as the CD without being obscenely largeAug 08 13:34
DaemonFCthat has an average cutoff at about 18 KhzAug 08 13:34
DaemonFCwhich should usually be more than sufficientAug 08 13:34
DaemonFCgstreamer just always cuts off at 16 Khz no matter what quality level you choose and there's no way to override itAug 08 13:35
DaemonFCbelieve me, I tried, for a few hours, and gave upAug 08 13:36
EruaranIve never liked gstreamerAug 08 13:37
Eruarannever worked right for meAug 08 13:37
DaemonFCafter Gstreamer damages the MP3s you made with it, they'll always sound like crapAug 08 13:38
DaemonFCeven if you play them on another media player, or another OSAug 08 13:38
DaemonFCthe damage is doneAug 08 13:38
DaemonFCKDE is about the only thing left that has any reasonable level of configuration options, everything else tends to depend heavily on GNOME components, so they inherit a lot of GNOME's deficienciesAug 08 13:39
DaemonFCand you have to watch out because some distributions like to foist gstreamer on you even in KDEAug 08 13:40
DaemonFCSoundKonverter and K3B still use LAME directly though, even though Mandriva KDE uses gstreamer to play mediaAug 08 13:41
DaemonFCtheir playback decoders all seem to work fineAug 08 13:42
EruaranI'm using Kubuntu, no gstreamerAug 08 13:42
DaemonFCKubuntu is making a few irrational decisions lately, but nothing too awfulAug 08 13:43
DaemonFCQuassel and Arora don't make sense to meAug 08 13:44
DaemonFCI played around with Arora trying to get it to block ads, you can't, but at least Konqueror is still thereAug 08 13:44
DaemonFCthey'll most likely give up on Arora at some pointAug 08 13:45
oiaohmUse the patented covered gstreamer plugin instead DaemonFCAug 08 13:48
oiaohmFor mp3Aug 08 13:48
DaemonFCthe Fluendo one?Aug 08 13:48
DaemonFCthat's only for playbackAug 08 13:48
oiaohmYep.Aug 08 13:48
DaemonFCthere's nothing wrong with gstreamer's mp3 playbackAug 08 13:49
oiaohmThey have an encode one as well.Aug 08 13:49
oiaohmBut its pay for.Aug 08 13:49
oiaohmYes annoying buggers.  I hope they remove the limit when mp3 patents go by by.Aug 08 13:49
DaemonFCthat will be a whileAug 08 13:51
DaemonFCencoding patents will be the last to goAug 08 13:51
DaemonFCbecause decoding was patented firstAug 08 13:51
trmancoyou got http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0Aug 08 13:53
schestowitzNovell News Summary – Part II: SUSE Studio, National Vision, and Xandros < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/08/suse-studio-national-vision/ >Aug 08 13:53
oiaohmhttp://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2009/08/05/webgl-brings-3d-acceleration-to-browsers/1  << InterestingAug 08 13:59
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trmancohttp://www.chicagostyleseo.com/2009/06/is-bing-censoring-questions-about-microsoft/Aug 08 14:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] in the park with sam. Having a bit of boy time.Aug 08 14:24
trmancohttp://www.reddit.com/r/web_design/comments/97sj6/look_at_this_site_look_at_the_source_code_then_cry/Aug 08 14:27
trmancoahhhh!!11!1!!Aug 08 14:27
schestowitztrmanco: <area coords="482, 184, 618, 214" shape="rect" href="file:///C:/Users/Darrell Johnson/Documents/My Web Sites/eccochips/eccorv/">Aug 08 14:32
schestowitzAnything else?Aug 08 14:32
trmancoyesAug 08 14:32
trmancosee what between the head tagsAug 08 14:32
schestowitzYeah, so?Aug 08 14:33
schestowitzI know it stinksAug 08 14:33
schestowitzAnd the <area> nonsenseAug 08 14:33
schestowitzSome universities use it tooAug 08 14:33
trmancoand tablesAug 08 14:33
trmancoat least we know if fully compatible with ie6Aug 08 14:33
trmanco...Aug 08 14:33
schestowitzI thought it would contain something funny like <area coords="482, 184, 618, 214" shape="rect" href="file:///C:/Users/Darrell Johnson/Pr0n/oops~1.mpg">Aug 08 14:33
trmancothat would be funnyAug 08 14:34
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TheAnyone around?Aug 08 14:36
TheArgh - BRBAug 08 14:36
trmancoỹepAug 08 14:36
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themadhatterOK, Anyone around?Aug 08 14:38
trmancoagain?Aug 08 14:38
ThistleWebI'm technically not around, I've ssh'd in via the moonAug 08 14:39
themadhatterRoy, I'd like to make a suggestion. Language is a powerful thing.Aug 08 14:39
ThistleWebtalk about long distance pricesAug 08 14:39
ThistleWeblolAug 08 14:39
trmancoheheAug 08 14:39
themadhatterSo we have to be careful that we don't allow others to define what we say and how we think.Aug 08 14:39
ThistleWebwe won't even go into the battery length to keep a wifi connetcion powerful enough for that distanceAug 08 14:40
themadhatterSpecifically I'm refering to the term "intellectual property"Aug 08 14:40
DaemonFCI made it out of there with a family size bag of Doritos, 4 frozen pizzas, a half gallon of reeses ice cream, 4 liters of pepsi,a box of frozen taquitos, two Boston Market TV dinners, and a 16 ounce bag of Starbucks coffee for $4Aug 08 14:40
DaemonFCI'm good :)Aug 08 14:40
themadhatterBy using that term, instead of the more correct "intellectual monopoly" you give credence to it.Aug 08 14:40
DaemonFCI don't see anything wrong with proprietary software per seAug 08 14:41
DaemonFCthat is like John Carmack's game engines, where when they're done with them, they GPL themAug 08 14:41
themadhatterWhen you give credence to an opponents terms, you have given up more than half the field of battle.Aug 08 14:41
DaemonFCI hate companies that abandon software they can't even sell anymoreAug 08 14:41
DaemonFCand then sue people for sharing it as abandonwareAug 08 14:41
themadhatterAnyway, I have to run. Wife has a reunion today, and she's dragging me along so she can boast how well she did.Aug 08 14:42
themadhatterSometimes I think she is blind.Aug 08 14:42
ThistleWebthemadhatter: another way to look at that, is that if you respond by using other terms, you only add more confusion to the audienceAug 08 14:42
DaemonFCI can kind of understand Microsoft not wanting to open source or give away recent versions of WindowsAug 08 14:42
ThistleWebit's like you're answering a different questionAug 08 14:42
DaemonFCif I was running the company, I'd at least open source DOS and Win16Aug 08 14:42
DaemonFC:PAug 08 14:42
trmancowhat forAug 08 14:43
ThistleWebcompanies like to exploit thatAug 08 14:43
trmancodosbox exists for a reasonAug 08 14:43
DaemonFCcuriousityAug 08 14:43
ThistleWebconfuse the publicAug 08 14:43
DaemonFCI can't use it anymopre but maybe someone canAug 08 14:43
schestowitzHey, themadhatter Aug 08 14:43
DaemonFCthey won't even give away something they haven't sold in 14 yearsAug 08 14:43
themadhatterthistleweb the audience is already confused by the incorrect term, we are trying to help them understand realityAug 08 14:43
themadhatterhi RoyAug 08 14:43
ThistleWebthe more the public are confused, the more they will just give up trying to understand and accept what's done to themAug 08 14:44
DaemonFCit's not like they're at risk of someone knowing how Windows 3.1 worksAug 08 14:44
DaemonFCyou know?Aug 08 14:44
themadhatterSo we should leave them confused by not explaining reality?Aug 08 14:44
ThistleWebnot at allAug 08 14:44
schestowitzthemadhatter: do I say IP?Aug 08 14:44
schestowitzI do try to avoid itAug 08 14:44
themadhatterthats what you are arguingAug 08 14:44
schestowitzAMong other things: Bong, Vista 7..Aug 08 14:44
DaemonFCI do think that companies should open source anything they're just going to abandon otherwiseAug 08 14:45
schestowitzLong before I knew about GNU's forbidden terms I hated "IP"Aug 08 14:45
DaemonFCif I am going to throw something away that may benefit someone else, I at least try to donate itAug 08 14:45
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2007/01/03/intellectual-property/Aug 08 14:45
themadhatterI saw Intellectual property used 2-3 times in the last couple of days Roy, that's why I'm bringing it up.Aug 08 14:45
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2006/03/25/ip-negative-effect/Aug 08 14:45
schestowitzthemadhatter: in quoted text?Aug 08 14:46
schestowitzIt's hard to cite articles that don't repeat itAug 08 14:46
themadhatterJust a minutrAug 08 14:46
schestowitzEven RMS warns when he does have no choice but to point to propaganda-loaded materialAug 08 14:46
ThistleWebexplaining reality is different from adding another new term for somethingAug 08 14:47
DaemonFCsoftware patents aren't necessarily a bad thing, how they're issued and how long they last is what I have a problem withAug 08 14:47
ThistleWebit's like the peeps who say Digital Restrictions ManagementAug 08 14:47
DaemonFCpatent trolls registering something and everyone has to pay royalties for 20 years or whatever it is, that's ridiculousAug 08 14:48
DaemonFCeven Microsoft has been slapped around with that one several timesAug 08 14:48
themadhatterUbuntu Tweaks Patent Policy, Microsoft Has “Intellectual Property Group”, Twitter Faces Lawsuit, and Google Handles Video PatentsAug 08 14:48
DaemonFCthey keep pushing for those laws though because it's what their entire business depends onAug 08 14:48
ThistleWebpeeps who are interested know that's closer to the truth, yet they know the official word is "rights", where the public, new to it and trying to get their heads round it see 2 different things, are they different? how so?....when it's 2 terms for the same thingAug 08 14:48
themadhatterIntellectual Property (290) - articles listingsAug 08 14:48
themadhatterAnd yes, the rest were in quotes.Aug 08 14:50
themadhatterDaemonFC there are no good patentsAug 08 14:50
schestowitzUsed to be called "patent sharks"Aug 08 14:51
themadhatterThe patent system should be abolished, most of the patents issued by the US Patent Office fail under the USPTO's own rules. Actually let's change that to all. I've never read a patent yet that didn't fail, at least among the ones I was able to understand.Aug 08 14:52
schestowitzSharks is almost a complimentAug 08 14:52
ThistleWebI kinda see it as companies trying to build an object called say DRM (rights) with lies, deception etc while we're trying to tear it down with logic, debate, teaching etc but we're trying to tear down a different object, a DRM (restrictions), or even build our own object, and leaving the original unharmed because we use a different wordAug 08 14:52
schestowitzthemadhatter: the "IP" tag was created by Shane ages agoAug 08 14:52
DaemonFCthe patent system is a good thing in theoryAug 08 14:53
DaemonFCkind of like Communism in theoryAug 08 14:53
DaemonFCbut in practice you always get a dictator and the people are left to starveAug 08 14:53
DaemonFCbut it looks good on paperAug 08 14:53
themadhatterschestowitz - I'm suggesting you change it. Ever look at General Semantics?Aug 08 14:53
themadhatterdaemonfc - like hell it was a good thing in theory. All it's been since it was implemented was a disasterAug 08 14:54
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themadhatterThe extra costs it adds to society are horrendous, and it will slow down the American Recovery significantly.Aug 08 14:55
ThistleWebthemadhatter: why limit it to just the Armeican recobery?Aug 08 14:55
DaemonFCnot sure about thatAug 08 14:55
ThistleWebrecoveryAug 08 14:55
DaemonFCWIPO is almost entirely for the benefit of the top 10% of AmericansAug 08 14:56
DaemonFCeveryone else in the world gets to go fuck themselvesAug 08 14:56
DaemonFCincluding other Americans :PAug 08 14:56
Diablo-D3so how the fuck do I get in that top 10%Aug 08 14:56
themadhatterthistleweb because they seem to be in worse shape than anyone else. All caused by their own stupid policies.Aug 08 14:56
schestowitzthemadhatter: I could change the category nameAug 08 14:56
schestowitzOn the positive side:Aug 08 14:57
ThistleWebwe're all connectedAug 08 14:57
DaemonFCinherit itAug 08 14:57
themadhatterschestowitz - I'd like it if you did. By using their term you add legitimacy to it.Aug 08 14:57
DaemonFCor win the lottery and dump all of it in drug companies and MicrosoftAug 08 14:57
schestowitzSome people who search for "intellectual property" will be met with (What to them is) unconventional thoughtAug 08 14:57
schestowitzSo you can speak their gibberish to entice them, so to speakAug 08 14:57
DaemonFCyou have to admire Bill Gates in some waysAug 08 14:57
themadhatterHow about Intellectual Monopoly with the old term in brackets.Aug 08 14:58
DaemonFChe started out with making Altair Basic interpretersAug 08 14:58
DaemonFCand now look at MicrosoftAug 08 14:58
ThistleWebIntelrectual Property / Monopoly could also workAug 08 14:58
DaemonFCall of that got started with making BASIC interpreters for an obscure line of computers in the 70sAug 08 14:58
themadhatterdaemonfc - why would you want to admire a cheater ?Aug 08 14:59
schestowitzthemadhatter: doneAug 08 14:59
DaemonFCwell, it's not automaticalyl a given that without Microsoft we'd be better offAug 08 14:59
schestowitzIt's still cached thoughAug 08 14:59
DaemonFCthere was Apple and about 10 other companies in the 80s that would have been Microsoft if there was never a MicrosoftAug 08 14:59
schestowitzThe category name is now changed: http://boycottnovell.com/category/intellectual-property/Aug 08 15:00
DaemonFCI happen to think we'd be even worse off if Apple hadn't been stoppedAug 08 15:00
themadhatterGreat. Language is such a powerful tool, you really have to be careful about what you do with it.Aug 08 15:00
ThistleWebeven if you did start to use Monopoly, the abrev IP would translate to IMAug 08 15:00
ThistleWebwhich to most net users means instant messagingAug 08 15:01
themadhatterDo you use the word OK when speaking to your children, for example when you tell them "We are going now, OK"Aug 08 15:01
DaemonFCwell, think about it. You don't have to buy a PC from Microsoft, it doesn't actually depend on WindowsAug 08 15:01
DaemonFCif Apple had become the standard they would monopolize hardware and operating systemsAug 08 15:02
DaemonFCand there would be no room for LinuxAug 08 15:02
themadhatterJust think - you say to a 3 year old - "We are going now, OK" - what you are doing is asking their permission to goAug 08 15:02
schestowitz"Ship High In Transit"Aug 08 15:03
ThistleWebthemadhatter: if your voice is monotone yesAug 08 15:03
themadhatterI see so many parents doing this, and they wonder why the kid says "No"Aug 08 15:03
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit "A popular belief is that the word shit originated as an acronym for "Ship High In Transit", referring to the apparent need to stow manure well above the water line when transporting it by ship. This has been shown to be a myth. "Aug 08 15:03
DaemonFCMicrosoft made it through the 80s because nobody was thinking in terms of how much the software costAug 08 15:03
ThistleWebI don't know anyone who does not use inflections, even subconciouslyAug 08 15:03
DaemonFCback then the hardware was what killed youAug 08 15:04
themadhatterand then fights them about leavingAug 08 15:04
ThistleWebpeople respond to HOW something is said, just as much if not more than what is actually saidAug 08 15:04
ThistleWebslight raise in tone at the end means a questionAug 08 15:04
themadhatterApple never could have won a monopoly share. There were too many other hardware manufacturers like Commodore/Amiga, Atari, etc. who were building good product.Aug 08 15:05
cubezzzthemadhatter, rightAug 08 15:05
cubezzzthe original big three: TRS-80, Commodore Pet, and Apple IIAug 08 15:06
themadhatterthistleweb - right. and when anyone says OK, that's how their tone goes. Language is important. If you say the wrong thing, you can't expect the right result.Aug 08 15:06
cubezzza pity about CommodoreAug 08 15:06
themadhatterC64 - god I loved that computerAug 08 15:06
ThistleWebexactly, but the wrong thing is a combo of the words and how they're said, not just the wordsAug 08 15:06
cubezzzthemadhatter, ever hear about the C65?Aug 08 15:07
ThistleWebin addition to the past relationship between the speaker and the listenerAug 08 15:07
DaemonFCI really liked my Commodore 64Aug 08 15:07
DaemonFCI got a lot of years out of itAug 08 15:07
themadhatterthistleweb - yeah, but this is the internet. You can't hear my tone of voice, so we have to be even more careful what we say.Aug 08 15:07
ThistleWebif the threat of punishment is always used to get compliance, but never enacted, it's false, and treated as suchAug 08 15:07
ThistleWebof course, I'm just responding to your "asking a child, with the use of OK" pointAug 08 15:08
themadhattercubezzz - yes, I read an article on it a while back. They had a couple of prototypes didn't they, but the firm blew up before they released them.Aug 08 15:08
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY2gK1MPgh8&feature=player_embeddedAug 08 15:09
DaemonFCheheAug 08 15:09
cubezzzthemadhatter, there were 200 madeAug 08 15:09
themadhatterNeat, I downloaded it, will watch laterAug 08 15:10
cubezzzso there are definitely out thereAug 08 15:10
themadhatter200? Heck, I'd love one.Aug 08 15:10
themadhatterI gotta run - see youAug 08 15:11
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schestowitzThis is what disappoints me about TechDirt.. http://techdirt.com/articles/20090807/1536005805.shtmlAug 08 15:12
schestowitzAhh... that video brings back memoriesl..Aug 08 15:15
schestowitzBruce Lee...Aug 08 15:15
schestowitzYahoo Chief: ‘We Have Never Been a Search Company’ < http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/07/yahoo-ceo-we-have-never-been-a-search-company/ >Aug 08 15:17
schestowitzBartzmer the zombie....Aug 08 15:17
schestowitzMicrosoft Chief: ‘We Have Never Been an Unethical Company’Aug 08 15:17
schestowitzApple Chief: ‘We Have Never Been an Arrogant Company’Aug 08 15:18
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schestowitzFTC Stops U.S. Online Retailer From Posing As A UK-Based Site http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/08/07/ftc-stops-us-online-retailer-from-posing-as-a-uk-based-site The FTC actually does some jobs now?Aug 08 15:19
schestowitzhttp://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/08/goldman-sachs-dog-poop-futures.htmlAug 08 15:22
Diablo-D3....Aug 08 15:22
*Diablo-D3 facepalmsAug 08 15:22
DaemonFCwhat about Gordon Gekko? errrr.....Goldman SachsAug 08 15:24
DaemonFCheheAug 08 15:24
schestowitzStupid fluffy headline: "'Compatible with Windows 7' Logo Sees Strong Momentum" http://news.softpedia.com/news/039-Compatible-with-Windows-7-039-Logo-Sees-Strong-Momentum-118492.shtmlAug 08 15:29
schestowitzWow!Aug 08 15:29
schestowitzYeah, Microsoft should sell stickers thenAug 08 15:29
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DaemonFCDesigned for Windows Vista didn't work out so wellAug 08 15:30
DaemonFCwhy are they asking for another lawsuit?Aug 08 15:30
schestowitzThe site as a whole is not a Microsoft 'whore' though.. http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-KDE-4-3-on-Ubuntu-9-04-118645.shtml (How to Install KDE 4.3 on Ubuntu 9.04)Aug 08 15:32
schestowitzI don't think they lost the Vista capable lawsuit. But justice in the US favours the deeper pockets (more motions)Aug 08 15:32
DaemonFChttp://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-source/open-source-business/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsId=16085Aug 08 15:33
DaemonFCcalling Canonical a Microsoft competitor is too kindAug 08 15:33
DaemonFCRed Hat on the other hand, is putting the hurt on Windows ServerAug 08 15:34
schestowitzhttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1219501Aug 08 15:34
schestowitzit's not too kindAug 08 15:34
schestowitzUbuntu is just representative there for desktop LinuxAug 08 15:34
schestowitzAnd it's burning Microsoft through pricingAug 08 15:35
DaemonFCin some waysAug 08 15:35
DaemonFCyou still have to go out of your way to find anything with Ubuntu pre-installedAug 08 15:35
DaemonFCI can drive a half a mile and buy WindowsAug 08 15:35
DaemonFCI'd have to special order something online to get Ubuntu, and wait for several daysAug 08 15:36
schestowitzMany Seattle sites are building Vista 7 buzz... http://www.examiner.com/x-9438-SF-Business-Tech-Examiner~y2009m8d6-Windows-7-just-in-time-or-just-a-little-too-lateAug 08 15:36
DaemonFCthat's a problem for Ubuntu, they still need shelf space if they want to catch on in a big wayAug 08 15:36
schestowitzDaemonFC: you live in the US.Aug 08 15:36
schestowitzOne of the most Linux-hostile countries that isAug 08 15:37
DaemonFCnot especiallyAug 08 15:37
DaemonFCconsidering that two of the biggest Linux companies are hereAug 08 15:37
DaemonFCthe US is not Linux hostile, Walmart is selling what makes them moneyAug 08 15:38
DaemonFCno money, no incentive, it's not some dastardly planAug 08 15:38
DaemonFCit's a free marketAug 08 15:38
MinceRlolAug 08 15:39
MinceR"free market", he saysAug 08 15:39
DaemonFCif some banana republic issues an edict that everyone there has to use LinuxAug 08 15:39
DaemonFChow is that "friendly"?Aug 08 15:39
DaemonFCin the sense that they can't afford anything elseAug 08 15:39
ThistleWebto be fair, you wouldn't expect Seattle to act any different, MS employ a LOT of peeps in that area, they are very important to the areas ecconomyAug 08 15:39
ThistleWebthey have to step up to the plate and try to protect these jobsAug 08 15:39
DaemonFCyou're still not answering the questionAug 08 15:40
ThistleWebnot that it's ethicalAug 08 15:40
DaemonFCplaces like Iran are switching to Linux to comply with intellectual property laws that are prerequisite to joining the WTOAug 08 15:40
ThistleWebbut it is at least understandableAug 08 15:40
DaemonFCnot because they like LinuxAug 08 15:40
DaemonFCbecause they can't run pirate Windows on everything and ask for membership in the WTOAug 08 15:40
DaemonFCbut right now, they mainly depend on pirate WindowsAug 08 15:41
MinceRi'm sure they very much wish they couldAug 08 15:41
DaemonFCthey can't afford to license itAug 08 15:41
DaemonFCa Linux mandate on government computers is there to replace pirate Windows so they can jon the WTO, were it not for their ambitions regarding WTO, they'd keep sailing right along with cracked WindowsAug 08 15:42
ThistleWeblike any learned behaviour, they've long had a blinkered view of MS being the best, and deserving to be the top dog, and anyone challenging that needs to be put in their placeAug 08 15:42
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DaemonFCno, nothing stopped them from choosing Linux in the first placeAug 08 15:42
DaemonFCthey just didn't have any copyright laws there and pirating Windows was easier at the timeAug 08 15:42
ThistleWebI'm sure they also turn a blind eye to all the tax's MS SHOULD be paying to help the area, but in realuty are funneled though tax evasion countriesAug 08 15:43
MinceRnothing, except things like ignorance?Aug 08 15:43
DaemonFCironic yes, but it's like they only have two choicesAug 08 15:43
DaemonFCand Linux was the backup planAug 08 15:43
ThistleWebbetter to have some of something, than none of something biggerAug 08 15:43
MinceRask your average windows user what he knows/thinks about os-esAug 08 15:43
DaemonFCwhy should Microsoft pay Iran taxes?Aug 08 15:44
DaemonFCthey don't even do business thereAug 08 15:44
DaemonFCIran is stealing from themAug 08 15:44
DaemonFCif you steal my car, do I owe you a tank of gas too?Aug 08 15:44
MinceRif i steal your software, do you lose that copy?Aug 08 15:44
ThistleWebMinceR: we onto the kindle?Aug 08 15:45
ThistleWeblolAug 08 15:45
MinceR:)Aug 08 15:45
ThistleWebI know that's ebooks, but yes, you do lose your copyAug 08 15:45
DaemonFCwho cares?Aug 08 15:45
ThistleWebwhich is a more accurate use of the word "theft"Aug 08 15:45
DaemonFCmillions of people will still buy them even after thisAug 08 15:45
DaemonFCand they deserve each otherAug 08 15:45
MinceRdepends on how i "steal" that ebookAug 08 15:46
ThistleWebindeedyAug 08 15:46
DaemonFCwell, ripping off an author is real high browAug 08 15:46
DaemonFCisn't it MinceR?Aug 08 15:46
MinceRonly as high brow as ripping off your customers is.Aug 08 15:46
schestowitzHere he goes again..Aug 08 15:46
DaemonFCthey're notAug 08 15:46
schestowitz"Stealing..." Pirates..."Aug 08 15:47
DaemonFCthey sell you the bookAug 08 15:47
DaemonFCthe book is their workAug 08 15:47
ThistleWebschestowitz: who?Aug 08 15:47
schestowitzWatch the language thereAug 08 15:47
DaemonFCyou steal the book, you steal their laborAug 08 15:47
DaemonFCwhat's hard to comprehend?Aug 08 15:47
schestowitzNo-one steals a bookAug 08 15:47
schestowitzThe book (physical book) can be passed.Aug 08 15:47
DaemonFCif I write a book and charge $100 a copyAug 08 15:47
schestowitzThat's lending, not stealkingAug 08 15:47
DaemonFCyou can pay me $100 or don't take itAug 08 15:47
DaemonFCsimple as thatAug 08 15:47
schestowitzIn digital terms it can be duplicated, like in Star TrekAug 08 15:48
schestowitzDaemonFC: wrote a book?Aug 08 15:48
DaemonFCnobody is forcing you to buy anythingAug 08 15:48
DaemonFCif you think it's worth using, you pay them for their laborAug 08 15:48
schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't want itAug 08 15:49
DaemonFCthere is no "right" to readAug 08 15:49
DaemonFCnobody owes you anythingAug 08 15:49
schestowitz"It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not." --Bill GatesAug 08 15:49
schestowitz“They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.”  --Bill GatesAug 08 15:49
schestowitzDrug dealers... don't buy from themAug 08 15:49
DaemonFCso that translates into stealing books?Aug 08 15:49
DaemonFCBill Gates told you it was OK?Aug 08 15:49
schestowitzNo.Aug 08 15:50
schestowitzThe point is, Bill Gates is unethicalAug 08 15:50
schestowitzHe's a modern age drug dealerAug 08 15:50
DaemonFCgood for him, he's also not making anyone buy WindowsAug 08 15:50
schestowitzHe also invests in ripping off people for their livesAug 08 15:50
ThistleWebactually it's a drug pusher model, not dealer. Dealers supply to customers who want the product, pushers actively seek to get more people addictedAug 08 15:50
schestowitzBy investing in Big PharamasAug 08 15:50
DaemonFCthey feel it's worth the money or they wouldn't buy itAug 08 15:50
ThistleWebpushers offer freebiesAug 08 15:50
DaemonFCdrugs? drug users feel it's worth the moneyAug 08 15:50
ThistleWebincentivesAug 08 15:50
DaemonFCor there wouldn't be any dealersAug 08 15:51
ThistleWebto create more addictsAug 08 15:51
ThistleWebdealers cater to existing addictsAug 08 15:51
schestowitzbrbAug 08 15:51
DaemonFCif someone is using their money to buy drugs to hurt themselves with, I have no reason to careAug 08 15:51
DaemonFCthey did that to themselvesAug 08 15:51
DaemonFCthey're an adult, nobody forced them to start usingAug 08 15:52
DaemonFCwe live in a society where nothing is ever your faultAug 08 15:52
DaemonFCthat's the real problemAug 08 15:52
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DaemonFCI really don't think anything should be criminalized unless they can prove you actually harmed someone against their consentAug 08 15:53
DaemonFCotherwise, the state decides that I can commit a crime against myselfAug 08 15:54
DaemonFCor to a willing participantAug 08 15:54
DaemonFConce they start down that path, it gets pretty ludicrousAug 08 15:55
DaemonFChttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/08/1231231/Microsoft-Finally-Joins-HTML-5-Standard-EffortsAug 08 15:56
DaemonFChttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Aug/0389.htmlAug 08 15:57
DaemonFCIE 9 anyone?Aug 08 15:57
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DaemonFChttp://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/07/1521208/Ubuntus-New-Firefox-Is-Watching-YouAug 08 16:01
DaemonFCUbuntu turns Firefox into spywareAug 08 16:01
_Hicham_ubuntu again?Aug 08 16:02
_Hicham_true, they run a lot of patchesAug 08 16:03
_Hicham_but mozilla can't talk to themAug 08 16:03
_Hicham_as canonical is in the board of mozillaAug 08 16:03
DaemonFCCanonical is now spying on usersAug 08 16:04
DaemonFCwit ha Firefox plugin that "collects data" to help them "generate revenue"Aug 08 16:04
DaemonFCthat sounds very distastefulAug 08 16:04
_Hicham_u can build ur own firefoxAug 08 16:04
_Hicham_it takes one hourAug 08 16:04
DaemonFCI tried their multisearch plugin which is there by defaultAug 08 16:04
DaemonFCit sucks anywayAug 08 16:04
DaemonFCdon't have to do that, just disable the multisearch extensionAug 08 16:05
_Hicham_i don't use ubuntuAug 08 16:05
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_Hicham_and mozilla will have trouble with linuxAug 08 16:07
_Hicham_once webkit goes mainstreamAug 08 16:07
DaemonFC\http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327200.900-10-mysteries-of-you-pubic-hair.htmlAug 08 16:07
_Hicham_epiphany is now webkit basedAug 08 16:10
_Hicham_devhelp is using webkit backendAug 08 16:10
_Hicham_soon yelp will use webkitAug 08 16:10
_Hicham_evolution also is planning to use webkitAug 08 16:10
_Hicham_gtkhtml is getting deprecatedAug 08 16:10
DaemonFCyeah, now as soon as decent browsers start using it.....Aug 08 16:10
DaemonFCFirefox is cookedAug 08 16:10
_Hicham_and xulrunner will probably get wiped out from gnome-2.28Aug 08 16:11
_Hicham_Chromium now support flashAug 08 16:11
_Hicham_but no certificates yetAug 08 16:11
_Hicham_as of the last time i tried itAug 08 16:11
trmancoit does have certsAug 08 16:11
_Hicham_trmanco : when did they implement it?Aug 08 16:12
_Hicham_i checked it last monthAug 08 16:12
trmancohttp://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxCertManagementAug 08 16:12
trmancoit's just a link that point to that pageAug 08 16:12
trmancopointsAug 08 16:12
trmancoit has it for a while nowAug 08 16:12
_Hicham_can it be configured from chromium?Aug 08 16:13
_Hicham_like in Firefox?Aug 08 16:13
trmanconoAug 08 16:13
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trmancoit's just a plain link pointing to that link, as I saidAug 08 16:13
_Hicham_wowAug 08 16:14
trmancoyeah it sucksAug 08 16:14
_Hicham_they are progressing fastAug 08 16:14
DaemonFC"We have completed the work to opt you out of the Comcast Domain Helper service.Aug 08 16:14
DaemonFCThis change will take effect automatically when your cable modem renews its DHCP lease."Aug 08 16:14
DaemonFCyayAug 08 16:14
_Hicham_DaemonFC the comcasterAug 08 16:14
DaemonFCbrbAug 08 16:14
DaemonFChave to go power cycle the modemAug 08 16:14
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trmancololAug 08 16:14
_Hicham_trmanco : what about extensions ?Aug 08 16:15
trmancoyou can use them tooAug 08 16:15
_Hicham_were u able to install any extension ?Aug 08 16:15
trmancojust start chromium with --enable-extensionsAug 08 16:15
trmancoI haven't installed anyAug 08 16:15
trmancobut flash worksAug 08 16:15
_Hicham_yeah, i know, flash works nowAug 08 16:15
trmancoif you use that flag at start upAug 08 16:15
schestowitztrmanco: it does?Aug 08 16:15
schestowitzSince whe?Aug 08 16:15
_Hicham_HTML 5 tooAug 08 16:15
_Hicham_schestowitz : since more than a monthAug 08 16:16
schestowitzNo, Flash never workedAug 08 16:16
schestowitzIt's sluggishAug 08 16:16
trmancoit does workAug 08 16:16
schestowitzAnd it's a blobAug 08 16:16
schestowitztrmanco: it never willAug 08 16:16
trmancoyeahAug 08 16:16
trmancolibflashplayer.soAug 08 16:16
schestowitzIt's a closed boxAug 08 16:16
trmancothe crap thing isAug 08 16:16
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schestowitzBrowser says.... "here, box of 260x400"... "just do whatever you want to do"Aug 08 16:17
trmancothat the stupid task manager still can't kill a tabAug 08 16:17
DaemonFCyayAug 08 16:17
DaemonFCno more domain hijackingAug 08 16:17
schestowitzTHen Flash goes nasty spying on you, writing to files, taking resources, and refuses to ever change behaviour"Aug 08 16:17
schestowitzFlash 10 does DRMAug 08 16:17
schestowitzImagine a Web of binariesAug 08 16:17
schestowitzCONNECT to icann.netAug 08 16:17
schestowitzGET site.exeAug 08 16:18
trmancothat would certainly be a bad experienceAug 08 16:18
trmanco:OAug 08 16:18
schestowitzexectusing site.exe (yay!)Aug 08 16:18
_Hicham_schestowitz : I think that Novell have access to flash sourceAug 08 16:18
_Hicham_because the flash shipped in openSUSE is customizedAug 08 16:18
*trmanco tries dissembling site.exeAug 08 16:18
schestowitztrmanco: it's tivoisedAug 08 16:18
trmancohow customized?Aug 08 16:19
schestowitztrmanco: more than MJAug 08 16:19
_Hicham_trmanco : they ship a standalone flash playerAug 08 16:19
_Hicham_just like swfdec and gnashAug 08 16:19
_Hicham_which is inexistant in other distrosAug 08 16:19
trmancowhat do you mean, by standaloneAug 08 16:20
trmancoubuntu also ships the original flashAug 08 16:20
ThistleWebstandalone is a separate app playerAug 08 16:20
ThistleWebnot in a browserAug 08 16:20
trmancoahAug 08 16:21
trmancook, ubuntu does not have thatAug 08 16:21
_Hicham_Novell have it in its non-free repoAug 08 16:21
ThistleWebwhen you install flash pro on windows, it gives you a standalone player as well as the pro flash designer appAug 08 16:21
trmancoyeahAug 08 16:22
trmancoI remember thatAug 08 16:22
trmanco.exe flash games :OAug 08 16:22
schestowitzShockWaveAug 08 16:24
trmancothat a different appAug 08 16:24
schestowitzYEahAug 08 16:24
trmanconot available for linuxAug 08 16:24
trmancois*Aug 08 16:24
_Hicham_how can Novell offer that ?Aug 08 16:25
trmancoI have no ideaAug 08 16:25
_Hicham_sure, they have access to source codeAug 08 16:25
_Hicham_I don't know how they did it, but openSUSE 11.2 will be a significant release in Linux history if they continue on that pathAug 08 16:26
_Hicham_it carries on a lot of optimizationsAug 08 16:27
trmancowhat new about it?Aug 08 16:27
trmancowhat kind of optimizations?Aug 08 16:27
_Hicham_you should try it to feel the difference of speed compared to other distrosAug 08 16:27
_Hicham_it has the fastest live CD I have ever seenAug 08 16:28
_Hicham_it boot like if it was installedAug 08 16:28
_Hicham_it has one of the largest repositories on LinuxAug 08 16:29
_Hicham_the pacman repository is really hugeAug 08 16:29
_Hicham_plus the openSUSE build service is a great ideaAug 08 16:30
_Hicham_it is now getting opened to packagersAug 08 16:30
_Hicham_they cooperate well with PackageKit projectAug 08 16:31
_Hicham_the PackageKit zypper backend is doing its job well and fastAug 08 16:31
_Hicham_things that i don't like about openSUSEAug 08 16:32
_Hicham_first of all : their Mono supportAug 08 16:32
schestowitzSome people insist in the old version of amarok.. interesting: http://ubuntumanual.org/posts/232/get-amarok-1-4-back-in-ubuntu-jaunty-9-04Aug 08 16:32
_Hicham_openSUSE comes bundled with all the mono apps that you can imagineAug 08 16:32
desuthe standalone flash app is available from adobe siteAug 08 16:33
ThistleWebdesu: for linux?Aug 08 16:33
_Hicham_second : their packaging policy, with is really looseAug 08 16:33
desuyesAug 08 16:33
schestowitz_Hicham_: define looseAug 08 16:33
desuwait, i'll link youAug 08 16:33
schestowitzAre they not testing well?Aug 08 16:34
_Hicham_schestowitz : they don't have a strict packaging policyAug 08 16:34
_Hicham_since packages don't get reviewed rigourouslyAug 08 16:34
_Hicham_rpmlint finds a lot of obvious packaging errorsAug 08 16:35
schestowitzHmmmmmm. I though she was a lot younger.. http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-08-08-008-35-OP-CYAug 08 16:35
ThistleWebooh, they have flash player, and air for linuxAug 08 16:35
ThistleWebnot shockwave thoughAug 08 16:35
schestowitzAIR has a decent installerAug 08 16:35
ThistleWebI knew ages ago acrobat was available for linux, after seeing it in the premium mandriva stuffAug 08 16:36
ThistleWeban app you only get when you buy the cdsAug 08 16:36
_Hicham_plus, openSUSE one click install can be problematicAug 08 16:36
_Hicham_sometimesAug 08 16:36
_Hicham_sure, it is a great featureAug 08 16:36
_Hicham_but it borrows the concept from windowsAug 08 16:36
ThistleWebacrobat reader*Aug 08 16:36
_Hicham_unaware users can easily get malwareAug 08 16:36
schestowitzwallclimber: you should read this: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-08-08-008-35-OP-CYAug 08 16:37
_Hicham_where is that standalone flash player for linux on adobe website?Aug 08 16:37
desuhttp://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/updaters/10/flash_player_10_linux_dev.tar.gzAug 08 16:38
ThistleWebadobe.comAug 08 16:38
ThistleWebit's right there on the right columnAug 08 16:38
desuhttp://www.adobe.com/support/flashplayer/downloads.htmlAug 08 16:38
ThistleWebget glash playerAug 08 16:38
ThistleWebflashAug 08 16:38
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ThistleWebI see 4 "get" buttons, including shockwave which only lets you select from windows versionsAug 08 16:39
ThistleWebthe other 3 have a linux optionAug 08 16:39
_Hicham_i just get the pluginAug 08 16:39
ThistleWebI only looked at the download options, not what they actually offerAug 08 16:41
wallclimber(I'm reading Carla's birthday article now)Aug 08 16:41
ThistleWebthere are plenty lighter and better pdf readers than acrobatAug 08 16:41
_Hicham_no standalone flash playerAug 08 16:41
_Hicham_like evinceAug 08 16:41
_Hicham_ocularAug 08 16:41
_Hicham_kpdfAug 08 16:41
ThistleWebI have no use for air, and flash is already in my Firefox (and Opera the odd time I use it)Aug 08 16:42
ThistleWebone feature of all (that I've seen) pdf readers on Linux, is that it remembers your place when you next open itAug 08 16:43
ThistleWebthat pdf anywayAug 08 16:43
_Hicham_Adobe Reader have that option tooAug 08 16:43
ThistleWebwhich is DAMN handy if you're working through something trying to learn it, and it takes you 3 hours to get 5 pagesAug 08 16:43
ThistleWebyeah I'd imagine it doesAug 08 16:43
schestowitzIt's time to get rid of Windows < http://blogs.computerworld.com/14510/its_time_to_get_rid_of_windows >Aug 08 16:44
ThistleWebit seems to be default in every pdf readerAug 08 16:44
*schestowitz swatches DNS server againAug 08 16:44
schestowitzThe productivity loss caused to Linux users due to Windows users (never mind cost) is enormousAug 08 16:44
schestowitzHad WIndows been a car, it would be banned immediatelyAug 08 16:44
ThistleWebto me, on top of the bloat, adobe reader just feels very clutteredAug 08 16:45
ThistleWebfar too much on screenAug 08 16:45
ThistleWebcompared to a simple reader, with a column for thumbnail pages, or bookmarks and the page itselfAug 08 16:45
_Hicham_I never liked Adobe ReaderAug 08 16:46
_Hicham_on LinuxAug 08 16:46
_Hicham_on Windows it does its job quite wellAug 08 16:46
_Hicham_but on Linux, wowAug 08 16:46
_Hicham_it is one of the slowest apps everAug 08 16:47
ThistleWebit feels like the only reason adobe reader is so cluttered, is to give the impression of a full blown expensive app, with stuff disabled, to convince you that you're missing on on much more than just the ability to modify, so you should buy the acrobat proAug 08 16:47
_Hicham_there is pdfeditAug 08 16:47
_Hicham_which is FOSSAug 08 16:47
ThistleWebwhere most peeps will only ever use it as a basic readerAug 08 16:48
ThistleWebwhere any free pdf reader would do better for themAug 08 16:48
ThistleWebyepAug 08 16:48
_Hicham_plus, OpenOffice can modify pdfsAug 08 16:48
_Hicham_through its pdf-import pluginAug 08 16:48
_Hicham_available since version 3Aug 08 16:48
ThistleWebhow do you use that?Aug 08 16:48
ThistleWebI installed it but cant see any import pdf optionAug 08 16:49
_Hicham_you open pdf like any other documentAug 08 16:49
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ThistleWebooh, that works, tyAug 08 16:52
ThistleWebalthough it has opened up draw, and imported it, where I expected writerAug 08 16:52
ThistleWebbut thats fineAug 08 16:52
ThistleWebI was looking for something on the menu to suddenly add a new option after the plugin was installedAug 08 16:55
ThistleWebmaybe I'm too used to Firefox bahaviourAug 08 16:55
ThistleWeba new addition to the "import" menu perhapsAug 08 16:56
ThistleWebbut no, they had to go and be sweet, and just open it silentlyAug 08 16:56
ThistleWebthe last thing I thought ofAug 08 16:56
_Hicham_you can edit the text on most pdfsAug 08 17:05
_Hicham_just double click on the text u want to editAug 08 17:05
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schestowitzbblAug 08 17:18
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_Hicham_has anyone thought that totem should have 16:10 aspect ratio support ?Aug 08 17:36
ThistleWebI've often thought totem should be droppedAug 08 17:39
ThistleWebI've never had any video which actually works in itAug 08 17:39
ThistleWebon any distroAug 08 17:39
ThistleWebregardless of the codecs installedAug 08 17:39
ThistleWebsometimes I;ve had videos play, but the sound is way offAug 08 17:39
ThistleWebor it's jerky compared to mplayer or vlc on the same file, on the same distroAug 08 17:40
ThistleWebit's one of the few apps that always puzzle me that peeps think is good enough to have as defaultAug 08 17:40
ThistleWebI'm guessing my experiences are not the norm, judging by the fact that some love totemAug 08 17:41
_Hicham_totem is kept because it is based on GstreamerAug 08 17:43
_Hicham_and Gstreamer allows you to have legal codecsAug 08 17:43
_Hicham_Mplayer or VLC uses illegal codecsAug 08 17:43
ThistleWebin some countriesAug 08 17:44
_Hicham_yesAug 08 17:44
ThistleWebbut I get your pointAug 08 17:44
_Hicham_Gstreamer is a wonderful framework, it just needs more workAug 08 17:44
ThistleWeba LOT more workAug 08 17:44
ThistleWebI can only go by the output, and totme (to me) is terribleAug 08 17:45
ThistleWebtotem*Aug 08 17:45
_Hicham_Gstreamer is not that badAug 08 17:45
_Hicham_exaile uses GstreamerAug 08 17:45
_Hicham_have u ever used exaile ?Aug 08 17:46
ThistleWeblike anything, it's a combo of the app and the backgroundAug 08 17:46
ThistleWebyeah, it's not too badAug 08 17:46
ThistleWebI don't like full on media managers like exaile, rythmbox, banshee or amarokAug 08 17:46
ThistleWebthey're all much the same to meAug 08 17:46
_Hicham_it would be great if all multimedia apps uses Gstreamer, so that it can be improved quicklyAug 08 17:47
ThistleWebyeahAug 08 17:48
_Hicham_http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/apps/ : apps that use GstreamerAug 08 17:51
ThistleWebwow, I don't use gstreamer at allAug 08 17:52
ThistleWebI always thought I did, somewhereAug 08 17:53
ThistleWebaudacious, smplayer and vlcAug 08 17:53
Xarverboo monoAug 08 17:57
ThistleWebyeah, and boo some other randoms subjects tooAug 08 17:57
ThistleWebboo boo even, smarter than the average bearAug 08 17:57
ThistleWebthere should be an app or site called BlaneAug 08 18:00
ThistleWebabout mono, devoted to silly games and riddles around Mono, "Blane's a pain and that's the truth"Aug 08 18:00
ThistleWebBlane the Mono, is a Dark Tower by Steven King reference btwAug 08 18:01
ThistleWeban insane monorailAug 08 18:01
ThistleWebdefeated by humour which is not logical, so he can't compute itAug 08 18:04
ThistleWebBlane = MS, Little Blane = NovellAug 08 18:05
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wallclimberRoy, when you get a chance, check your email  :)Aug 08 18:23
DaemonFCI am not happy with Comcast :PAug 08 18:25
DaemonFCwhen they took over our cable system, my bill went up about 20% vs MediaCom and channels I watched just disappearedAug 08 18:26
DaemonFCdamn I wish I didn't live in the middle of nowhereAug 08 18:26
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_Kfjo3VjU&feature=player_embeddedAug 08 18:29
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DaemonFChttp://news.aol.com/article/officials-nurse-of-the-year-not-really-a/607237Aug 08 18:37
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DaemonFChow, get your cameras out, Ubuntu pushed a patch upstreamAug 08 18:43
DaemonFC:PAug 08 18:43
DaemonFC*wowAug 08 18:43
_Hicham_DaemonFC and UbuntuAug 08 18:44
DaemonFCMandriva is broke and has less employees and somehow still manages to push three times as many patches upstream as UbuntuAug 08 18:45
_Hicham_Mandriva is one of the greatest distros everAug 08 18:46
_Hicham_their control center is fantasticAug 08 18:46
DaemonFCunusually coherent, yesAug 08 18:46
DaemonFCI've called MCC a Yast that actually worksAug 08 18:46
_Hicham_Yast works alsoAug 08 18:47
DaemonFCyeah, if you don't mind waiting til christmas for it to loadAug 08 18:47
DaemonFCYast is one of the rougher edges of OpenSuseAug 08 18:47
_Hicham_it depends on the number of repositories u configuredAug 08 18:47
_Hicham_and the autorefresh optionAug 08 18:47
DaemonFCwell, I do tend to enable several of thoseAug 08 18:48
DaemonFCusually Packman, Nvidia, and VLCAug 08 18:48
_Hicham_it explains itselfAug 08 18:48
_Hicham_packman already is hugeAug 08 18:48
DaemonFCI've never seen Mandriva slow down that muchAug 08 18:48
DaemonFCeven with PLF addedAug 08 18:48
_Hicham_PLF is small compared to packmanAug 08 18:49
_Hicham_packman is one of largest repos on the netAug 08 18:49
DaemonFCreally the only things people grab are codecs and drivers anywayAug 08 18:49
DaemonFCthe distribution should have the rest of itAug 08 18:49
_Hicham_packman is far bigger than thatAug 08 18:49
_Hicham_plus, the one click install adds more reposAug 08 18:50
_Hicham_did u test openSUSE 11.2?Aug 08 18:50
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_Hicham_DaemonFC : YaST is still loadingAug 08 19:00
_Hicham_it is now more than a minuteAug 08 19:00
_Hicham_packagekit is fasterAug 08 19:00
_Hicham_but as i said the number of repositories mattersAug 08 19:05
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_Hicham_DaemonFC : what is happening to ur internet connection ?Aug 08 19:12
DaemonFCIt's Comcastic!Aug 08 19:13
DaemonFC:)Aug 08 19:13
_Hicham_are u on Windows 7 ?Aug 08 19:14
DaemonFCI have no idea, if it's not Comcast, it's that damned routerAug 08 19:14
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DaemonFCat the momentAug 08 19:15
DaemonFCwhy?Aug 08 19:15
_Hicham_is it performing well?Aug 08 19:16
_Hicham_i just want to knowAug 08 19:16
DaemonFCfairly wellAug 08 19:16
DaemonFCfirst thing I did with it was take out Internet ExplorerAug 08 19:17
DaemonFCWindows is much less aggravating without itAug 08 19:17
trmancohttp://37signals.com/svn/posts/1835-browsers-visiting-37signals-sites-all-ourAug 08 19:17
_Hicham_take internet explorer completely?Aug 08 19:18
*schestowitz listens to http://www.twit.tv/floss76Aug 08 19:20
DaemonFCWindows lets you remove the browser part of it nowAug 08 19:21
DaemonFCit takes a couple reboots, after that nothing can load IEAug 08 19:21
DaemonFCnot even youAug 08 19:21
DaemonFChttp://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3779/12561705.pngAug 08 19:25
DaemonFCThere's several add-ons for Firefox to integrate it with Windows AeroAug 08 19:25
schestowitzDamn. I need someone to answer my other question (re academia being hijacked)? ... Microsoft is trying to seize US unis with its minions again.Aug 08 19:26
schestowitzOT:Aug 08 19:26
schestowitz> Can you get some data on Danske Banken (and the consortium to whichAug 08 19:26
schestowitz> it belongs) regarding that Sharepoint failure?Aug 08 19:26
schestowitzI only saw 1-2 articles that you sent me (in Danish).Aug 08 19:26
schestowitzCan anyone help finding references to this/Aug 08 19:26
schestowitzVista 7: as fugly as VIstaAug 08 19:27
DaemonFCthey're already sending out emails telling you that you can preorder it at the student store at BSUAug 08 19:27
schestowitzI can't tell the difference apart from the task bar being bloatedAug 08 19:27
schestowitzBS University?Aug 08 19:27
schestowitzBS stands for?Aug 08 19:27
DaemonFCBall State UniversityAug 08 19:29
schestowitztrmanco: that site is known to be read by many of the Mac/design typesAug 08 19:29
schestowitzLike DHHAug 08 19:29
DaemonFChttp://cms.bsu.edu/Aug 08 19:29
trmanco31 signals?Aug 08 19:29
trmanco37*Aug 08 19:29
schestowitzDavid Heinemeier Hansson : http://www.twit.tv/floss79Aug 08 19:29
schestowitzYes, the arrogant bunchAug 08 19:29
schestowitzhttp://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://cms.bsu.eduAug 08 19:30
schestowitzFail. BSODAug 08 19:30
Will_The funny thing is that some student stores have all but completely converted to Mac shops in the years since Vista released.Aug 08 19:30
trmancohehAug 08 19:30
Will_They don't sell enough PCs anymore to make it worth it.Aug 08 19:30
schestowitzhttp://cms.bsu.edu/Academics.aspxAug 08 19:30
schestowitz                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^Aug 08 19:30
DaemonFCyou can get Apple stuff in the storeAug 08 19:30
schestowitzWait until patch Tuesday comes along.. or ConfickerAug 08 19:31
trmancowhat kind of an OS is a F5 Big-IPAug 08 19:31
Will_schestowitz : I agree that stuff will likely hit the fan once 7 comes out, if it really is nothing more than Vista with new lipstick.Aug 08 19:33
Will_There's a lot of normal, everyday people out there that desperately hate Vista.  These people don't read blogs, don't come to Linux sites, don't know about shills or MS's practices, but they know Vista doesn't work for them.Aug 08 19:34
DaemonFCF5 Big-IP is mostly FreeBSDAug 08 19:35
DaemonFCsome LinuxAug 08 19:35
Will_They just might not be able to afford a Mac and don't yet know about Linux.Aug 08 19:35
DaemonFCrarely Windows ServerAug 08 19:35
DaemonFChttp://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8761/56473561.pngAug 08 19:36
DaemonFCWinamp still worksAug 08 19:36
DaemonFC:PAug 08 19:36
DaemonFCvinyl to FLAC is humongous, heheAug 08 19:37
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DaemonFCeven as FLAC, the files are twice as big as uncompressed CD audioAug 08 19:37
schestowitzWill_: many people just "use their Hotmail"Aug 08 19:37
schestowitzEven eye candy is not something they fancyAug 08 19:37
Will_schestowitz:  Too many.  Way too many.Aug 08 19:38
DaemonFCyou can turn off AeroAug 08 19:38
schestowitzMy eye sight is very good, so I rarely realise how other use their PCsAug 08 19:38
DaemonFCI don't recommend itAug 08 19:38
schestowitzThey have 600x800Aug 08 19:38
schestowitzOr slightly moreAug 08 19:38
schestowitzAnd they keep it "Classic" even in XPAug 08 19:38
DaemonFCturning off Aero will slow the system down mroe than it helps if you have a decent graphics cardAug 08 19:38
DaemonFC*moreAug 08 19:38
schestowitzIncluding those ugly grey windows decorations from WIn95 daysAug 08 19:38
schestowitzVista just means to them that fewer things workAug 08 19:38
schestowitzAlso:Aug 08 19:38
schestowitzThey shut down the PC all the timeAug 08 19:38
schestowitzThey don't keep it up like computer wizardsAug 08 19:39
schestowitzSo if it takes long to boot (as VIsta does), it's a big deal for themAug 08 19:39
schestowitzThey just want to check E-mail for 20-30 mins, then shut downAug 08 19:39
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DaemonFC7 takes quite a bit less time to boot than VistaAug 08 19:40
DaemonFCstill isn't what I'd call fast, but you don't fall asleep on the keyboardAug 08 19:40
schestowitzDaemonFC: thanks to you screenshots I can see I'm underwhelmedAug 08 19:40
schestowitzI've seen better screenies of VistaAug 08 19:40
DaemonFCAero works a lot more smoothly than on VistaAug 08 19:41
DaemonFCit also doesn't guzzle RAMAug 08 19:41
schestowitzMicrosoft knows how to match wallpapers with some menus and stuff to make it look more attractiveAug 08 19:41
schestowitzApple is good at _also_ matching hardware design/colours to thatAug 08 19:41
Will_Nice KDE4 setup, DaemonFC... ur I mean 7 setup. :)Aug 08 19:41
schestowitzWhen done improperly, it looks tastelessAug 08 19:41
schestowitzMandriva 2008.1 looks better, even without the COmpiz stuff in actionAug 08 19:41
DaemonFChttp://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8510/42843493.pngAug 08 19:42
DaemonFCthe "Windows 7" themeAug 08 19:42
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/04/video-demo-kde-4-3/Aug 08 19:42
schestowitz^That's better looking.Aug 08 19:42
schestowitzDaemonFC: even default  is lameAug 08 19:43
schestowitzIt looks immatureAug 08 19:43
schestowitzLike going back to XP lala landAug 08 19:43
Will_schestowitz : you made a good point there about the "hotmail" track.  MS people sometimes like to keep on with the theme that the average user is too stupid to do this or do that.  Well, a lot of average users aren't too stupid, they just aren't specialists or eye candy fanatics.  If it gets the job done, it gets the job done.Aug 08 19:43
schestowitzAnd the menus at the bottom are Fish-PriceAug 08 19:43
DaemonFCthere's several others by defaultAug 08 19:43
schestowitz*even FIsherAug 08 19:43
DaemonFChttp://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1461/42693358.pngAug 08 19:44
Will_Which means that if Linux gets the job done, they don't mind that it's Linux (might not even know)Aug 08 19:44
schestowitzWill_: many people will never diverge from defaultAug 08 19:44
DaemonFCMicrosoft promises to add more on their website when they officially release itAug 08 19:44
schestowitzEVen brown UBuntu works for themAug 08 19:44
schestowitzOr OrganceAug 08 19:44
schestowitz**OrangeAug 08 19:44
schestowitzWill_: they don't say the L wordAug 08 19:45
schestowitzThere's a new push to synonimise PC with Aero and stuffAug 08 19:45
schestowitzShops are not allowed to put GNU (+Bery;/Compiz) on displayAug 08 19:45
DaemonFCit's certainly an improvement over LunaAug 08 19:45
schestowitzIt evoke awareness of choiceAug 08 19:45
schestowitzNot choice as in "Apple shop"Aug 08 19:46
Will_schestowitz: Oh I know.  Palm Pre and it's "Web OS"... I appreciate the gesture, but I wish they'd just use the L word.Aug 08 19:46
schestowitzDaemonFC: Vista 7 looked better in some old demosAug 08 19:46
Will_Why haven't we seen any Linux adverts in years?Aug 08 19:46
schestowitzWhat you're showing is a Vista with an enlarged menu for the near-sightedAug 08 19:46
schestowitzAnd the toolbar/etc in VIsta takes a lot of spaceAug 08 19:46
schestowitzRibbon tooAug 08 19:46
schestowitzGNOEM goes the other wayAug 08 19:46
schestowitzThey remove and shrink to save space and remove clutter/cruftAug 08 19:47
schestowitzMicrosoft thinks making WIndows more like toy (or 'Mac") is the way to goAug 08 19:47
DaemonFCschestowitz: That's actually to make it easier to use a touchscreenAug 08 19:47
Will_schestowitz: I know Linux doesn't have a billion dollar marketing department, but a little well placed media exposure right now could do wondersAug 08 19:47
schestowitzPeople become MORE familiar with computers over time, they don't newbieiseAug 08 19:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: what touch screen?Aug 08 19:47
schestowitzLike Surface?Aug 08 19:48
schestowitzMicroosft needs to design for real peopleAug 08 19:48
schestowitzNot poor little rich men from Kirkland and BellevueAug 08 19:48
DaemonFCthe new taskbar is to make it easier to navigate with your handsAug 08 19:48
DaemonFCthere's also an onscreen keyboard you can type withAug 08 19:48
schestowitzTouchscreen="sorry, we have no new features, so buy fun new hardware"Aug 08 19:48
DaemonFCand things like notepad let you use a stylus to write withAug 08 19:48
DaemonFCerr, wordpad ratherAug 08 19:49
Will_Vista was the wrong path, but the ship is too big to turn quickly, assuming the captains are even aware that they are off course.Aug 08 19:49
schestowitzDaemonFC: try using a touchscreenAug 08 19:49
schestowitzit's horrid. Your arms hurtAug 08 19:49
DaemonFCit's actually pretty easyAug 08 19:49
schestowitzAnd it won't multi-headAug 08 19:49
schestowitzUnless you're willing to double the cost, againAug 08 19:49
DaemonFCsurprisingly east, I thought for sure it was going to be "voice recognition" all over againAug 08 19:49
DaemonFCnow there was your disasterAug 08 19:49
DaemonFC*easyAug 08 19:50
schestowitzHeheAug 08 19:50
schestowitzDoes anyone use that?Aug 08 19:50
DaemonFCI spent an hour while I was boredAug 08 19:50
schestowitz"delete that"Aug 08 19:50
DaemonFCtrying to train VistaAug 08 19:50
schestowitz*deleting voice dictation feature\Aug 08 19:50
DaemonFCand it still messed up too much to actually useAug 08 19:50
Will_tried voice recognition years ago.  Useless, but fun.  I played a game to dictate something, then laugh at what actually came out.Aug 08 19:50
schestowitzDragon NaturallySpeaking tooAug 08 19:50
schestowitzPeople buy itAug 08 19:50
schestowitzAnd then stop playing with itAug 08 19:50
schestowitzIt is not preciseAug 08 19:51
DaemonFCI haven't even tried it in Windows 7 yetAug 08 19:51
DaemonFCI wonder if it's gotten betterAug 08 19:51
DaemonFCmay try it laterAug 08 19:51
DaemonFCyeah, ambient noise my assAug 08 19:51
schestowitzAnyway, let's stop talking about WindowsAug 08 19:51
DaemonFCit was quiet in here, and I even tried using my headset microphone as wellAug 08 19:51
schestowitzIt's just publicising the thingAug 08 19:51
Will_true.. like it really needs more of that... "You can have any OS you want, as long as its ......."Aug 08 19:53
schestowitz"Here. have a ballot."Aug 08 19:55
schestowitz[and BTW, we've already installed IE, for your convenience]Aug 08 19:55
DaemonFCmost of my older games need XP Compatibility ModeAug 08 19:55
schestowitz[You can use Linux. But, for your convenience Windows is already installed on your new PCs, but you have the 'choice' to wipe it]Aug 08 19:56
DaemonFCwhich means a UAC prompt every time I load themAug 08 19:56
DaemonFCHP used to void your warranty if you installed LinuxAug 08 19:56
schestowitzWine has great compatAug 08 19:56
schestowitzIt's expansiveAug 08 19:56
schestowitzIf it weren't GPL Microsoft would maybe embrace (EEE) itAug 08 19:56
Will_which is one of the reasons I don't buy HP (except printers... they rock with their Linux drivers)Aug 08 19:57
schestowitz(Mal)practice Makes Perfect < http://www.cringely.com/2009/08/malpractice-makes-perfect/ >Aug 08 19:57
twitterHP makes Linux drivers?Aug 08 19:57
Will_I won't buy Dell either until they stop playing games with Ubuntu.Aug 08 19:58
schestowitzhttp://www.cringely.com/2009/08/google-taketh-away/ "Just as YouTube gave Flash video its huge success, so Google is now trying to take it away."Aug 08 19:58
Will_twitter : http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.htmlAug 08 19:58
schestowitzMy scanner works out of the box (HP)Aug 08 19:59
schestowitzI no longer use printers (I move from paper->digital, not the other way around)Aug 08 19:59
twitterI thought about buying a Dell netbook but got a EEE PC on firesale instead.  $140.Aug 08 19:59
schestowitzMicrosoft EEEd the EEEAug 08 19:59
Will_I don't print as much as I used to, but still need it sometimes.Aug 08 19:59
schestowitzASUS might come back to Linux with MIPSAug 08 20:00
schestowitzIf the rumours are correctAug 08 20:00
schestowitzTheir marketing gig with Microsoft may have paid them handsomely for a night in VegasAug 08 20:00
Will_I used to buy Epson printers when I used XP, but now I avoid them.  They don't provide Linux drivers, the Linux drivers that do exist for them have problems (printing options often get ignored, etc.), and Epson refuses to acknowledge Linux.Aug 08 20:01
DaemonFChplip works well enough with most HP printersAug 08 20:02
DaemonFCsome are supported better than othersAug 08 20:02
schestowitzNice music (new): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUYLntTwFSQAug 08 20:03
schestowitzEpson is bad with LinuxAug 08 20:03
Will_very.Aug 08 20:03
schestowitzIIRC, they were gonna sell Linux PCs in SpainAug 08 20:03
Will_HP = plug, play, print.Aug 08 20:03
schestowitzMaybe TurboLinux (ballnux)Aug 08 20:03
schestowitz2007 ishAug 08 20:03
schestowitzI could get the refAug 08 20:04
twitterhmmm, http://hplip.sourceforge.net/ now redirects to hpAug 08 20:04
Will_I wish more hardware manufacturers would see that Ballmer slide with Linux >= OSX share.  Then ask them why they offer OSX support but not Linux.Aug 08 20:05
twitterASUS's last brush with M$ cost ASUS plentyAug 08 20:05
DaemonFCMicrosoft has dramatically scaled back their Mac softwareAug 08 20:05
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DaemonFCit's pretty much down to jsut MS OfficeAug 08 20:06
twitterInteresting point, Will_Aug 08 20:06
DaemonFCthey used to have Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player tooAug 08 20:06
Will_not to mention their Mac software compatibility, apparentlyAug 08 20:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] HAPPY BIRTHDAY OPENBYTES! – 1 YEAR TODAY! http://ping.fm/p9ua0Aug 08 20:08
schestowitzMac is crippled by designAug 08 20:08
schestowitzBeen likes this since OS9, which I used for a whileAug 08 20:09
schestowitzIE5 CrippleditionAug 08 20:09
DaemonFCOS 9 in many ways was scarier than Windows 98Aug 08 20:09
schestowitzPart of the 97' delaAug 08 20:09
schestowitz*delaAug 08 20:09
schestowitz*DealAug 08 20:09
DaemonFCand no, IE for Mac was better than the Windows version, actuallyAug 08 20:09
DaemonFCbut they ditched it as soon as Netscape was goneAug 08 20:10
schestowitzLess virus compt?Aug 08 20:10
DaemonFCthat was obviousAug 08 20:10
DaemonFCIE for Mac used a different layout engineAug 08 20:10
schestowitzMonoculture goal accomplishedAug 08 20:10
DaemonFCit was totally unrelated to IE for WindowsAug 08 20:10
DaemonFCthe only thing they shared was the nameAug 08 20:10
schestowitzOS 9 was freezing sometimesAug 08 20:10
schestowitzVery HARD freezeAug 08 20:10
schestowitzNo process control. NadaAug 08 20:10
DaemonFCalso, it didn't support ActiveXAug 08 20:11
schestowitzStill the same toy for all I can tellAug 08 20:11
schestowitzMac desktops haven't good uptime. They c*p out...Aug 08 20:11
DaemonFCand it has much better CSS support than most browsers at that timeAug 08 20:11
DaemonFC*hadAug 08 20:11
schestowitzNetscape was atrocious on OS9Aug 08 20:11
DaemonFCTasman is still around, they embed it in some of their other Mac software as an HTML rendererAug 08 20:11
schestowitzI stopped using itAug 08 20:11
schestowitzIt had lagged behind by thenAug 08 20:12
DaemonFCNetscape 4 was bad on every platformAug 08 20:12
schestowitzMicrosoft's crime withstandingAug 08 20:12
DaemonFCit would crash with anything more than minimal CSSAug 08 20:12
DaemonFCNetscape was trying to kill CSS before it beganAug 08 20:12
DaemonFCso they wrote a completely incompatible style sheet systemAug 08 20:12
DaemonFCcalled JSS, Javascript Style SheetsAug 08 20:13
DaemonFCthen just before shipping version 4, it was clear that CSS was catching on, so they wrote a CSS to JSS filterAug 08 20:13
DaemonFCthat's why it was so slow, and that's also why CSS didn't work if you turned off JavascriptAug 08 20:13
DaemonFCwhen Navigator 4 was told to parse a CSS stylesheet, it had to translate it to JSS and forward that to the rendering engineAug 08 20:14
DaemonFCInternet Explorer understood CSS nativelyAug 08 20:14
DaemonFCalso both IE and Netscape had mutually incompatible "Dynamic HTML" supportAug 08 20:15
DaemonFCand neither one was ever standardizedAug 08 20:15
DaemonFCa large part of the non-standard crap in IE was a response to the equal amount of non-standard crap in NetscapeAug 08 20:16
DaemonFCit was an arms race to try to be incompatible with each other as much as possible and use users as pawnsAug 08 20:16
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DaemonFCthere were W3C standards, but Netscape and Microsoft basically ignored them or "extended" them, they were both after the same thing, browser monopolyAug 08 20:18
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Opera or iCab were the only two real choices on OS 9Aug 08 20:18
DaemonFCand both of them were sharewareAug 08 20:18
DaemonFCiCab doesn't support OS 9 anymore because all they do is embed WebkitAug 08 20:19
DaemonFCthey used to have their own engineAug 08 20:19
Will_Tried Opera recently.  Didn't strike me as particularly bad.  Just felt a little baren next to Firefox and its extensions.Aug 08 20:20
DaemonFCOpera no longer supports OS 9Aug 08 20:20
DaemonFCbut they do support Windows 98Aug 08 20:20
DaemonFCit's also possible to run Opera on Windows 95 as long as you have all those nice updates installed :PAug 08 20:21
DaemonFCOpera does not use Unicode, interestingly enough, which is a major reason why Windows 9x can run itAug 08 20:21
ThistleWebOpera is nice, but it needs usefull addonsAug 08 20:21
ThistleWebit needs to be able to consistently render font sizes tooAug 08 20:22
DaemonFCthe Win32 API hasn't changed a whole lot in 13 yearsAug 08 20:22
DaemonFCa lot of stuff has been added, but any basic Win32 application should install and run on any 32-bit WindowsAug 08 20:23
schestowitz"If the jury award is upheld, he plans to declare bankruptcy, he added." http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view/20090801downloader_must_pay_675g/Aug 08 20:23
schestowitzI moved to ThunderBrowseAug 08 20:23
twitterbetter than a hoodie http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-to-avoid-being-captured-on-cctv-244353Aug 08 20:23
schestowitzI still use Firefox for some stuff like bloggingAug 08 20:23
DaemonFCschestowitz: The minimum the jury could fine him was $500 per songAug 08 20:24
DaemonFCeven if they felt that was too muchAug 08 20:24
DaemonFCFirefox is alright, they really need to modernize the theme on Windows thoughAug 08 20:25
DaemonFCthey say that's in the works for Firefox 3.6Aug 08 20:25
DaemonFCit should support Aero natively, right now you need an unofficial extensionAug 08 20:25
twitterI'm glad the US did not sign it's side of this one.  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/5845465/Extradition-A-bad-and-unfair-treaty.htmlAug 08 20:27
DaemonFCit'll still run on XP and Windows 2000 though, they'll keep the GDI version of the theme around for themAug 08 20:27
twitterOtherwise, I some jackass might try to make my life difficult with unjust UK libel laws.Aug 08 20:27
DaemonFCthere's no way in hell we're handing over an American without probable causeAug 08 20:28
DaemonFCnor should weAug 08 20:28
DaemonFCthey can go to hellAug 08 20:28
DaemonFCthat would violate our constitution, btwAug 08 20:28
DaemonFCI agree with the articleAug 08 20:30
DaemonFCif the UK has a problem with it, they shouldn't have agreed to it on their endAug 08 20:30
DaemonFCthat would be totally unacceptableAug 08 20:32
DaemonFCthe UK has some godawful lawsAug 08 20:32
DaemonFCand I'm not a party to themAug 08 20:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Wine 1.1.27 released....giving it a run now!Aug 08 20:33
DaemonFCthen there's the idiots in the Spanish legal system that think we're going to turn over a former US president to themAug 08 20:33
DaemonFC:PAug 08 20:34
schestowitzSign now if you haven't: http://www.fsf.org/news/amazon-kindle-drm-petitionAug 08 20:34
DaemonFCyeah, I'm not too thrilled with DRMAug 08 20:35
DaemonFCthat's a whole different issue than piracy, here you have people that have bought the book, legally, having it stolen back from them by the publisherAug 08 20:35
DaemonFCI wish that teenager all the luck with his lawsuit against AmazonAug 08 20:36
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DaemonFCthat's the really scary part about DRM, that you never really own anything you buyAug 08 20:37
DaemonFCthey can't kick down your door and take your CDs and books backAug 08 20:37
DaemonFCthe people that buy into this Kindle thing are like the people that bought thousands of DRM'd iTunes tracks that are now worthlessAug 08 20:38
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twitterfalse flag letters http://pol.moveon.org/roveisback/Aug 08 20:41
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schestowitz"In the long run, though, getting On2's technology accepted as a built-in Web video standard could help both YouTube and Google's grander ambitions for the Web." http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10304118-93.htmlAug 08 20:44
schestowitzWhy doesn't Google just do Ogg?Aug 08 20:44
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schestowitzApp Developers Stung by Twitter's DOS Woes < http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/169871/app_developers_stung_by_twitters_dos_woes.html >Aug 08 20:50
twittercommercial web bitten by windows botnets again!Aug 08 20:51
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schestowitzSchmidt's Apple Gig: He Worked for Free http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2009/tc2009086_636640.htmAug 08 20:59
schestowitztwitter: http://blogs.computerworld.com/14510/its_time_to_get_rid_of_windowsAug 08 20:59
schestowitzWindows = new cold war: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/08/07/russia.georgia.twitter.attack/Aug 08 20:59
twitter:)Aug 08 20:59
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twitterHe wimps out and recommends a terrible half measure.  " so we can't block them all, but perhaps we can start checking Windows PCs for up-to-date patches and minimum security settings before allowing them Internet access."Aug 08 21:04
schestowitzThat's already attemptedAug 08 21:05
twitterI've heard about it done at LSU.  They waste all sorts of bandwith probing ports on GNU/Linux machines.Aug 08 21:06
twitterDone wrong, this will block free software users.Aug 08 21:06
twitterDone right, it will be a great thing.Aug 08 21:07
twitterIt would be best to just identify and disconnect infected boxes.Aug 08 21:07
schestowitz Orang-utans fashion only known animal instrument http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17557-orangutans-fashion-only-known-animal-instrument.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-newsAug 08 21:08
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_goblinhi all.Aug 08 21:10
schestowitz"Lucas is vice president of the American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity, or ACCCE, a group SourceWatch describes as a “front group” for the coal industry." http://www.desmogblog.com/lucas-says-mountaintop-removal-appalachian-community-serviceAug 08 21:10
schestowitz_goblin: happy annivrsaryAug 08 21:11
_goblin:) thanks....Aug 08 21:11
schestowitzDid you take the wife out for the openbytes sepcial?Aug 08 21:11
_goblinno... :(..its my lads birthday on the 12th August and mine on the 14th....Aug 08 21:11
_goblinfriday will be a party night!Aug 08 21:11
_goblinsame youre not down this way....you'd be welcome!Aug 08 21:12
_goblin*shameAug 08 21:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody Africa investment sparks land grab fear - http://bit.ly/16d6Dk an increasingly hot issue #neocolonialismAug 08 21:12
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schestowitzOpenbytes is celebrated digitallyAug 08 21:13
*schestowitz still uses Palm calendar to remember bdyasAug 08 21:13
_goblinI even had a cameo appearance from Mr Da Costa on my blog....Aug 08 21:13
schestowitzYes, weird that oneAug 08 21:13
_goblinthat was unexpected.Aug 08 21:13
schestowitzDid he see the latest BN post?Aug 08 21:13
_goblinTrue to my word though, I linked his site...Aug 08 21:14
_goblinprobably....Aug 08 21:14
schestowitzCause he went bonkers the last time?Aug 08 21:14
_goblinyeah I saw that...Aug 08 21:14
schestowitzAnd John O seems like an aggressive nutter to me...Aug 08 21:14
_goblinI have followed him on twitter....interesting one that...Aug 08 21:14
_goblinMight have to engage him.Aug 08 21:14
schestowitzBe gentleAug 08 21:14
schestowitzToo bad MJ didn't live to see my post :-pAug 08 21:15
_goblinlolAug 08 21:15
_goblinI could'nt believe that comment when Andre posted it....Aug 08 21:15
_goblinits like he's trying his best to be seen as a fanboy.Aug 08 21:15
_goblinits worked though....Aug 08 21:16
_goblinhe's got a new computer.....Aug 08 21:16
_goblinCan I say though, It doesnt work with Bentleys....no matter how much I praise them I still havent been sent one.Aug 08 21:16
_goblinRoy, have I ever told you how great Bentleys are? ;)Aug 08 21:17
_goblinShame MJ never lived to own one.Aug 08 21:17
twitter*** twitter synced his Handspring Visor to KOrganizer.  Kontact still reminds him of everyone's important dates, including his own.Aug 08 21:17
_goblinI would hope everyone has a drink on Friday for my birthday!Aug 08 21:17
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/submission/1052575/Computer-World-Its-Time-to-Get-Rid-of-WindowsAug 08 21:19
_goblinnew build of Wine (.27) out....Aug 08 21:19
_goblingot it running at the moment with a very nasty 1k demoAug 08 21:19
schestowitzhttp://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/08/how_to_think_constructively_ab.html How to Think Constructively About HealthcareAug 08 21:19
schestowitz_goblin: Bentleys are niceAug 08 21:20
schestowitzIncreasingly rare, I thinkAug 08 21:20
schestowitz"Loaner" Bentleys...Aug 08 21:20
_goblinhey!!!! I'm first to get a free Bentley.... "Im the only Bentley shill in this village"Aug 08 21:20
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schestowitzFeel free to send them back when you're doneAug 08 21:20
_goblinyeah after about 100,000 miles of use!Aug 08 21:20
_goblinor a newer model comes out.Aug 08 21:21
twitteryou would to better with a TeslaAug 08 21:21
schestowitzDid the reporters send these back?Aug 08 21:21
_goblinor I wouldnt mind a Suzuki Pikes Peak....Aug 08 21:21
schestowitzThey were not obliged AFAIKAug 08 21:21
schestowitzIt's like when you borrow a fiver from yo mommaAug 08 21:22
twitterCoal is dirty http://www.ilovemountains.org/resourcesAug 08 21:22
_goblinHaving said that, I reckon my R1 would out-perform any Bentley.Aug 08 21:22
twitterthe whole carbon fuel thing has been bad newsAug 08 21:23
twittertime to move onAug 08 21:23
_goblinTo what though?  Give me the performance I expect from my gas drinker and I'll be interested...Aug 08 21:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoodyHow Twitter was killed - http://bit.ly/mxj5s with a Windows botnet, probably. Time to start suing Microsoft, maybe...Aug 08 21:23
twitterheh.  You can kill people with power outages and hospital infections and it will be ignored.  Mess with Facebook and it's all over.Aug 08 21:24
twitterWindows is over.Aug 08 21:25
_goblinThats tragically true!Aug 08 21:25
schestowitzMany UK hospital got hitAug 08 21:26
schestowitzConficker downer like 3 at leastAug 08 21:27
schestowitzThose that were reported about (surely there were more)Aug 08 21:27
schestowitzCOnficker literally killed many peopleAug 08 21:27
schestowitzConficker as in Windows hol;esAug 08 21:27
schestowitzRPC remotely exploitabelAug 08 21:27
schestowitzSent packet=ownAug 08 21:27
schestowitzNSA constructs Luis Borges’ “Library of Babel” < http://www.idealgovernment.com/index.php/blog/nsa_constructs_luis_borges_library_of_babel/ >Aug 08 21:28
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schestowitzRemember this? http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17570-skin-growths-saved-poisoned-ukrainian-president.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news ( Skin growths saved poisoned Ukrainian president)Aug 08 21:31
schestowitzConsumerism is 'eating the future' < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17569-consumerism-is-eating-the-future.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >Aug 08 21:31
schestowitzI've got some videos on this endless consumption on its impact, which is buried (literally)Aug 08 21:32
schestowitzWestern man consumes about 15 times more oil than a person in Africa. That's where pollution comes from -- combustion and waste.Aug 08 21:33
schestowitzYou could have a family of 5 in Kenya probably causing less harm to Earth than one person in the USAug 08 21:34
schestowitzBig Coal Impersonating Charities? < http://www.desmogblog.com/big-coal-impersonating-charities >  "The most sinister PR campaign in history just hit a new ethical low when it was revealed that forged letters appearing to be from charities were sent to lawmakers urging them to vote against the Waxman Markey climate bill."Aug 08 21:36
twitterNot all US families are equal ->  You could have a family of 5 in Kenya probably causing less harm to Earth than one person in the USAug 08 21:37
schestowitzPolice memos reveal IPCC haste to declare Ian Tomlinson death an accident < http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/07/ian-tomlinson-death-ipcc-g20 > That's the guy the police pushedAug 08 21:38
schestowitzI saw a bunch of guys attacking some dude in the streets today. No weapons.Aug 08 21:38
twitteralso not all low tech is low emission.  wood burning stoves, slash and burn agriculture and other practices are very bad.Aug 08 21:38
schestowitztwitter: true, and "US" was just some example. Developed countries alike, more or lessAug 08 21:39
twitterThe mobile and consumer lifestyle of the US is particularly damaging.  Some people "commute" more than 90 miles a day for work.Aug 08 21:40
twitterand they do it in Detroit's biggest junk.Aug 08 21:40
twitterto pay for it all, US workers put in some of the worst hours with almost no vacation time.Aug 08 21:41
twitterif they are lucky enough to have a job.  "participation" rate has dropped to 65%Aug 08 21:42
twitterVista 7 failure log is updated, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957Aug 08 21:43
twitterM$ death watch is updated, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707Aug 08 21:43
schestowitzABO Blood Type: Important For More Than Just Transfusions http://spittoon.23andme.com/2009/08/06/abo-blood-type-important-for-more-than-just-transfusions/Aug 08 21:43
twitterI think this Facebook/Twitter outage is a big deal.Aug 08 21:44
schestowitzBecause of people directly affectedAug 08 21:44
twitterPeople are really hooked on those things too.Aug 08 21:44
schestowitzSympathy/support opportunity, awareness riaisingAug 08 21:44
twitterGiven the choice, either Facebook or Windows .... Windows goes.Aug 08 21:44
schestowitzChina, others shove U.S. in scramble for Africa < http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5751F620090806 >. I heard about it like a year agoAug 08 21:47
schestowitzWho gets to exploit... the race for slavertAug 08 21:47
schestowitz*ryAug 08 21:47
twitterMany people have that bad attitude of "If it does not affect me, I don't care"  Now they will care.Aug 08 21:47
schestowitzHaptics Unleashes Virtual Reality and Telepresence Revolution - Awesome Vids http://singularityhub.com/2009/07/31/haptics-unleashes-virtual-reality-and-telepresence-revolution-awesome-vids/ Who wants one?Aug 08 21:49
schestowitzStemming the tide of Ubuntu kernel bugs http://mdzlog.alcor.net/2009/08/07/stemming-the-tide-of-ubuntu-kernel-bugs/Aug 08 21:50
ThistleWebjust spotted this >> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/98gkc/petition_to_ban_roy_from_spamming_rlinux_with_his/Aug 08 21:51
schestowitzEee PCs rumored to ship with Moblin in October, Chrome OS on the horizon http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/07/eee-pcs-rumored-to-ship-with-moblin-in-october-chrome-os-on-the/Aug 08 21:52
schestowitzThistleWeb: not me. They accuse me of something someone else is doing, without my involvement at all.Aug 08 21:52
trmancowowAug 08 21:53
trmancodigg just stopped at analytics.live.comAug 08 21:53
trmancoloadingAug 08 21:53
schestowitzDigg dumped Microsoft, sort ofAug 08 21:53
ThistleWebI just thought you may be interested if you didn;t already knowAug 08 21:53
schestowitzA while backAug 08 21:53
schestowitzThistleWeb: the usual hatersAug 08 21:53
schestowitzSeemingly new accounts they create to toss some mud. Maybe the usual Microsoft/Novell AstroTurf, in partAug 08 21:54
schestowitzPeople who spread hate and link to BN don't helpAug 08 21:54
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twitterthere is no dirty trick too low for the people attacking BNAug 08 21:57
twitterthis was modded down quickly http://slashdot.org/submission/1052575/Computer-World-Its-Time-to-Get-Rid-of-WindowsAug 08 22:00
twitterhad the Windows keyword, that made it easy for themAug 08 22:00
twitterthat's one reason the M$ people hate it when people say "M$"Aug 08 22:01
twitterthat messes with their scripts.Aug 08 22:01
schestowitzThat's not the reasonAug 08 22:02
twitterIt's funny that they were unable or unwilling to mod bomb this one http://slashdot.org/submission/1037137/Ubuntu-with-Ext3-is-Faster-than-Windows-7-and-XPAug 08 22:02
schestowitzI should start writing 1BM and see who attacks and whyAug 08 22:02
twitterbut did nail this one http://slashdot.org/submission/1051033/Windows-7-Still-Slower-than-XP-and-UbuntuAug 08 22:03
schestowitzhttp://www.directionsmag.com/press.releases/index.php?duty=Show&id=35730 Johnston McLamb to Demo New Business Intelligence, Open Source and American Recovery & Reinvestment Solutions at First Ever Virtual FOSE  Aug 08 22:04
schestowitzThe news got boring... why do companies advertise something dull like speakers..? http://press-releases.techwhack.com/39451-hostingcon-2Aug 08 22:05
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twitterto sell something dull like speakers?Aug 08 22:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Foul Frog's home tips: All plates are dirty? Use other side of plates! #4chanAug 08 22:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Gym gunman obviously another killer goth http://bit.ly/3pODQZAug 08 22:17
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yuhongIf you think MS astroturfing is bad enough, look at this:Aug 08 22:20
yuhonghttp://www.williamkwolfrum.com/2009/02/18/wow-overstockcom-ceo-patrick-byrne-is-an-unethical-freak/Aug 08 22:21
twitterhttp://memegenerator.net/AdviceDog/Foul-Frog.aspxAug 08 22:21
yuhongA key word here is "naked short selling".Aug 08 22:26
ThistleWebthat sounds like something you'd get arrested forAug 08 22:32
ThistleWeblike naked rambling, but doing door to door sales to pay for your foodAug 08 22:33
ThistleWebsome peeps get a tad annoyed if they answer the door to a naked salespersonAug 08 22:33
schestowitzThat's why it's called "peep"Aug 08 22:37
ThistleWeblolAug 08 22:38
schestowitzIf the salesman is good, then pimp is an option tooAug 08 22:38
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schestowitzhttp://tuxtraining.com/2009/08/07/user-nerdtree-to-browse-files-from-vimAug 08 22:41
ThistleWebI always wondered why the Naked Chef wasn't sued for false advertisingAug 08 22:46
twitterIt's funny how this is described as an "effort to make peace" http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Shuttleworth_On_cadence_and_collaborationAug 08 22:49
twitterI thought it was rather insulting.Aug 08 22:49
twitterdo it my way, or you are an irrational hater!Aug 08 22:49
schestowitzHe's in a tough spotAug 08 22:51
schestowitzUbuntu "haters" is another labelAug 08 22:51
schestowitzDespite my advocacy of it I was accused of 'hating'UbuntuAug 08 22:51
schestowitzI guess it's why I also got called Ubuntu "shill"Aug 08 22:52
schestowitzOr "Microsoft hater"Aug 08 22:52
schestowitzAnd at the same time a "shill" for MicrosoftAug 08 22:52
schestowitzThey can't make up their mind, those shill, but either way, I "must be doing this out of irrationality.. or payment'Aug 08 22:52
schestowitzIOW, "don't listen to this guy"Aug 08 22:53
twitteryes, that's what smear attacks are all aboutAug 08 22:53
schestowitzgnAug 08 22:53
twitterhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzQyOQAug 08 22:54
twitterATI drivers "open source"Aug 08 22:54
twitterthey have 2DAug 08 22:55
twittercoolAug 08 22:55
twitter3D on the way.Aug 08 22:55
twitterTwitter DDoS attack is ongoing http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/169897/twitter_continues_to_battle_ddos_attack.htmlAug 08 22:57
twitterFacebook too.Aug 08 22:58
twitter More than two days after experiencing a complete outage as a result of a distribute denial-of-service (DDoS) attack, Twitter and other social networking sites such as Facebook are still battling a surge in traffic related to the attack.Aug 08 22:58
twitterut oh, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a3r00w0QCe64Aug 08 23:01
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