schestowitz | "Microsoft blames weak TCP/IP stack" | Aug 13 00:00 |
---|---|---|
schestowitz | Now, these would at least show humility | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | But Microsoft is never to blame | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | It's perfect | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | Vista ... it was perfect | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | Your computer just sucks | Aug 13 00:00 |
oiaohm | Its the major difference between the open source world and MS. | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | Like in that Pirillo video | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | Vista is great, it's your fault | Aug 13 00:00 |
oiaohm | Most of the open source world admits to bugs. | Aug 13 00:00 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: that's not in the interests of shareholders | Aug 13 00:01 |
_goblin | "Microsoft blames Lynx for Ballmers perspiration problem" | Aug 13 00:01 |
schestowitz | Microsoft blames a lot of internal staff | Aug 13 00:01 |
schestowitz | If there's a blunder | Aug 13 00:01 |
schestowitz | Li,me Halloween Document or letter from dead people | Aug 13 00:01 |
schestowitz | it's always some out-of-c0ntrol mischivious crazy person | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | The MS TE docs too | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | They pretended that Effective Evangelism was from some lone wold | Aug 13 00:02 |
oiaohm | schestowitz: Redhat does quite well admiting to bugs for its shareholders. | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | *wolf | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | Not so | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | Jame P denied it | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | And his buddy Goldberg too | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | They said gates loved it | Aug 13 00:02 |
schestowitz | And they also commissioned that "Evangelism is war" gig | Aug 13 00:02 |
oiaohm | The thing MS misses by not admitting to bugs people cannot work around bugs effectively. | Aug 13 00:03 |
schestowitz | Look also at that document we know as Halloween | Aug 13 00:03 |
schestowitz | Microsoft pretended it was just a bunch of thought from an engineer | Aug 13 00:03 |
schestowitz | But Gates had that stuff given to all the board | Aug 13 00:03 |
schestowitz | They are all liar | Aug 13 00:03 |
schestowitz | Dishonest liars who pretend to have nothing to do with the blunders once they leak | Aug 13 00:03 |
schestowitz | "Microsoft expends a significant portion of its monopoly power ... on imposing burdensome restrictions on its customers and inducing them to behave in ways that augment and prolong that monopoly power.." -Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson in the Microsoft antitrust trial | Aug 13 00:04 |
schestowitz | http://www.kenauletta.com/finaloffer.html '[Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson] went as far as to compare [Microsoft’s] declaration of innocence to the protestations of gangland killers. He was referring to five gang members in a racketeering, drug-dealing, and murder trial that he had presided over four years earlier. [...] Jackson believed that Gates & Co.’s “crime” was hubris—a refusal to acknowledge that the nation’s ant | Aug 13 00:04 |
schestowitz | itrust laws applied to them." | Aug 13 00:04 |
schestowitz | "He was only half joking when he told me, “If I were able to propose a remedy of my devising, I’d require Mr. Gates to write a book report.” The assignment, Jackson said, would be a recent biography of Napoleon, and he went on, “Because I think he has a Napoleonic concept of himself and his company, an arrogance that derives from power and unalloyed success, with no leavening hard experience, no reverses.” " | Aug 13 00:05 |
zoobab01 | http://adaptux.com/standards/ooxml-wg4-leap-year-bug-unfix | Aug 13 00:05 |
zoobab01 | 1900 bug back in OOXML | Aug 13 00:05 |
fewa | "Microsoft blames enemy infiltration for faulty leadership" | Aug 13 00:06 |
fewa | :P | Aug 13 00:06 |
schestowitz | "Here's a fine kettle of fish. Pfizer's lawyers hired a detective who ended up intimidating a witness the day before he was due to testify..." http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090809231252693 | Aug 13 00:07 |
fewa | geeze | Aug 13 00:08 |
oiaohm | O boy I would not want to be Pfizer | Aug 13 00:08 |
fewa | Its a leech on society | Aug 13 00:08 |
fewa | That sort of thing rots society from the inside | Aug 13 00:08 |
fewa | Shows that these companies have no respect for society or law | Aug 13 00:09 |
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schestowitz | Seattle ID thief gets three years < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1529055/seattle-id-thief > | Aug 13 00:10 |
schestowitz | fewa: give em an overdose of viagra and be done with it | Aug 13 00:10 |
schestowitz | They'll convulse their way to Titian (the moon) | Aug 13 00:11 |
schestowitz | *titan | Aug 13 00:11 |
fewa | Pharmecuticals do a limited set of things: Get patents from taking idea from public research, evading patents of competitors, advertising, and lastly arguing for patents "so they can innovate" | Aug 13 00:12 |
fewa | and now supressing evidence through thug tactics | Aug 13 00:12 |
schestowitz | Microsoft did the same thign | Aug 13 00:13 |
schestowitz | Remember Florida? | Aug 13 00:13 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's 'Men in Black' kill Florida open standards legislation < http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/61481 > | Aug 13 00:14 |
schestowitz | Kosovo editor: Islamist hackers block Web site < http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/kosovo-editor-islamist-hackers-block-web-site-20090812-eh4k.html > | Aug 13 00:15 |
schestowitz | Another sub-part Apple 'product' finds that hype and branding alone are not enough; Apple TV is a lemon < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1528974/apple-tv-lemon . | Aug 13 00:16 |
schestowitz | *sub-par | Aug 13 00:16 |
schestowitz | Matt Cutts shaved his head. Weird. | Aug 13 00:18 |
fewa | schestowitz, oh yeah, and everything they said at those comittes was a lie | Aug 13 00:28 |
fewa | they should be presecuted for defrauding the public | Aug 13 00:28 |
schestowitz | WHo? | Aug 13 00:28 |
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fewa | the MS supporters | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | Microsoft? | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | Oh | Aug 13 00:29 |
fewa | would said they were independant | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | Well, that's a story for tomorrow | Aug 13 00:29 |
fewa | said that ODF was not a vendor-neutral standard | Aug 13 00:29 |
fewa | said that OOXML was | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | It's in the investors' interests | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | To lie=good | Aug 13 00:29 |
fewa | we need ethics reform | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | To say truth=bad for investors | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | Corollary = lies pay | Aug 13 00:29 |
schestowitz | Microsoft likes pay, so Microsoft prefers corruption | Aug 13 00:30 |
schestowitz | As the saying goes, "crime pays" | Aug 13 00:30 |
fewa | But corruption corrupts absolutely | Aug 13 00:30 |
schestowitz | Vigilance too pays off | Aug 13 00:30 |
fewa | no business could afford to operate in a world with maximum corruption | Aug 13 00:30 |
schestowitz | fewa: BN tries to look at ethics in few areas | Aug 13 00:30 |
fewa | its only beinfitial if their sector is corrupt, and only when they have the upper hand | Aug 13 00:30 |
schestowitz | One person suggested making a 'planet' (aggregator) or sites of this nature | Aug 13 00:31 |
schestowitz | Groklaw is another of this kind and TechDirt also | Aug 13 00:31 |
fewa | Thats why sane ethics and jury court system is the foundation for a strong society | Aug 13 00:31 |
schestowitz | GoldmanSachs666 strikes me as too emotional | Aug 13 00:31 |
schestowitz | Calling them 'banklsters" lose some listeners early on | Aug 13 00:31 |
schestowitz | *banksters | Aug 13 00:31 |
fewa | let these people's actions give themselves scarlet letters | Aug 13 00:32 |
schestowitz | http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/08/level-3-problem-at-goldman-sachs.html | Aug 13 00:32 |
schestowitz | See? Capital letters and all | Aug 13 00:32 |
schestowitz | This site is messy IMHO. | Aug 13 00:32 |
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seller_liar | I was thinking..... | Aug 13 00:36 |
seller_liar | Mono people is trying to put even more dependecy of mono in ubuntu | Aug 13 00:37 |
schestowitz | Hey, seller_liar | Aug 13 00:37 |
seller_liar | hello roy | Aug 13 00:37 |
seller_liar | for example | Aug 13 00:37 |
schestowitz | fewa: seller_liar is our main ethics proponent | Aug 13 00:37 |
seller_liar | some devs is porting sqlite to c# | Aug 13 00:37 |
fewa | good | Aug 13 00:37 |
seller_liar | f-spot uses sqlite | Aug 13 00:37 |
schestowitz | He's the one who suggested a plnet | Aug 13 00:37 |
schestowitz | *planet | Aug 13 00:37 |
seller_liar | result = f-spot sharp +sqlite# = more mono dependency in ubuntu | Aug 13 00:37 |
schestowitz | So you think they want other apps to latch into sqlite# ? | Aug 13 00:38 |
schestowitz | Ones that did not use sqlite# prior to that? | Aug 13 00:38 |
fewa | why the hell do they have to rewrite a gazillion bindings? | Aug 13 00:39 |
schestowitz | Like... of Firefox in Ubuntu uses sqlite, then they can propagate it to # to 'save space'? | Aug 13 00:39 |
fewa | C# is so close to C why cant they just use the C bindings? | Aug 13 00:39 |
schestowitz | That would be an infection lower down the stack | Aug 13 00:39 |
schestowitz | There's dbub# | Aug 13 00:39 |
schestowitz | Look it up in BN | Aug 13 00:39 |
seller_liar | but he is portingh ALL sqlite | Aug 13 00:39 |
seller_liar | not only a simple wrapper | Aug 13 00:39 |
fewa | seller_liar, he is slowing down ALL sqlite | Aug 13 00:39 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/12/mono-and-moonlight-winforms/ | Aug 13 00:40 |
fewa | simply for the purpose of encumbering it | Aug 13 00:40 |
seller_liar | yes, but probably mono people will trty to put this version of sqlite in ubunut | Aug 13 00:40 |
schestowitz | Here's one about dbus | Aug 13 00:40 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/31/gnome-mono-depenency-dbus/ | Aug 13 00:40 |
fewa | its a classic example of bloat | Aug 13 00:40 |
seller_liar | And I have heard some comments about mono people trying to force zeitgeist developer to use mono | Aug 13 00:41 |
fewa | sqlite is used in billions of applications and instances | Aug 13 00:41 |
seller_liar | But ,thanks god, zeiteigst dev is smart! | Aug 13 00:41 |
fewa | and now someone want to ignore all that bug testing | Aug 13 00:41 |
seller_liar | yes | Aug 13 00:42 |
seller_liar | mono people loves to attack gnote , | Aug 13 00:42 |
seller_liar | but mono people does a lot of porting | Aug 13 00:43 |
seller_liar | lucene itext are example | Aug 13 00:43 |
seller_liar | lucene is java | Aug 13 00:43 |
seller_liar | itext is java | Aug 13 00:43 |
schestowitz | Refutation of IDG FUD: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26920/1090/ | Aug 13 00:43 |
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oiaohm | I am noticing a lot of anti gpl stuff lately. Trying to say more project should be more open to closed source bits | Aug 13 00:53 |
seller_liar | big companies like apple ,microsoft pay a lot of trolls these days | Aug 13 00:53 |
seller_liar | Gpl is the most ethical license , it respects the freedom entirely | Aug 13 00:54 |
Diablo-D3 | meh not really | Aug 13 00:54 |
seller_liar | even linus hates gplv3 | Aug 13 00:54 |
Diablo-D3 | bsd/mit is the most ethical. | Aug 13 00:54 |
seller_liar | no | Aug 13 00:54 |
Diablo-D3 | it allows you to do _anything_ | Aug 13 00:54 |
seller_liar | because ,it gives power to people destroy freedom | Aug 13 00:54 |
Diablo-D3 | including the freedom to remove freedom | Aug 13 00:54 |
Diablo-D3 | thats a feature not a bug | Aug 13 00:55 |
seller_liar | and this is not Ethical | Aug 13 00:55 |
Diablo-D3 | taking away freedoms is not ethical | Aug 13 00:55 |
Diablo-D3 | ergo gpl is not ethical | Aug 13 00:55 |
oiaohm | Freedom is a myth. | Aug 13 00:55 |
seller_liar | taking away freedom is no ethical | Aug 13 00:55 |
oiaohm | There is no such thing as complete freedom. | Aug 13 00:55 |
oiaohm | Result of complete freedom is chaos. | Aug 13 00:56 |
seller_liar | bsd is chaos | Aug 13 00:56 |
seller_liar | because of complete freedom | Aug 13 00:56 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar is troll. | Aug 13 00:56 |
oiaohm | BSD is not complete freedom. | Aug 13 00:56 |
seller_liar | no | Aug 13 00:56 |
Diablo-D3 | and not even a good one | Aug 13 00:56 |
seller_liar | Why I 'm trroll? | Aug 13 00:56 |
oiaohm | You cannot remove the bsd licence tag from the source code seller_liar | Aug 13 00:57 |
oiaohm | So there is a restriction. | Aug 13 00:57 |
seller_liar | But permits proprietary software | Aug 13 00:57 |
oiaohm | That does not mean its complete freedom. | Aug 13 00:57 |
seller_liar | the gnu project tries to destroy proprietary software | Aug 13 00:57 |
oiaohm | Again wrong seller_liar | Aug 13 00:57 |
seller_liar | but BSD licenses help proprietary software | Aug 13 00:57 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: actually, you can remove it | Aug 13 00:57 |
Diablo-D3 | you cant remove the _copyright_ | Aug 13 00:57 |
oiaohm | Diablo-D3: read novell vs BSD case. | Aug 13 00:58 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: microsoft uses bsd code and does not distribute the source | Aug 13 00:58 |
oiaohm | BSD does not require source code to be released. | Aug 13 00:58 |
Diablo-D3 | they, however, comply with the license and include the copyright statements in a visible spot | Aug 13 00:58 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: exactly | Aug 13 00:58 |
oiaohm | LGPL can be embed in programs that are closed source everywhere else. | Aug 13 00:58 |
seller_liar | BSD helps microsoft | Aug 13 00:58 |
Diablo-D3 | BSD also hurts microsoft | Aug 13 00:59 |
oiaohm | There is some GPL and LGPL shiped by MS seller_liar | Aug 13 00:59 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: better yet | Aug 13 00:59 |
oiaohm | So its not black and white. | Aug 13 00:59 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft ships gnu project originated gpl code | Aug 13 00:59 |
Diablo-D3 | the SFU blob is half of a gnu *nix distro | Aug 13 00:59 |
seller_liar | but permissive licences does not helps free software | Aug 13 00:59 |
Diablo-D3 | even has gcc | Aug 13 00:59 |
oiaohm | Proprietray programmers want to set rules on there use of code. | Aug 13 01:00 |
oiaohm | Open source developers are no different. | Aug 13 01:00 |
seller_liar | the only thing which these licences helps is code sharing | Aug 13 01:00 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: please troll elsewhere | Aug 13 01:00 |
Diablo-D3 | we're all stocked up on crazy here | Aug 13 01:00 |
schestowitz | He's not trolling | Aug 13 01:00 |
seller_liar | bsd permits to join gpl , mit and other codes in a same project | Aug 13 01:00 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: seller_liar is most welcome here | Aug 13 01:00 |
oiaohm | BSD in GPL code is one way. | Aug 13 01:00 |
seller_liar | thanks roy . | Aug 13 01:01 |
schestowitz | Those who oppose his strand are usually the trolls | Aug 13 01:01 |
seller_liar | I'm not a troll | Aug 13 01:01 |
oiaohm | BSD developers get up set at times with GPL why. | Aug 13 01:01 |
schestowitz | They are the ones who come here to mock freedom-preserving action | Aug 13 01:01 |
oiaohm | Because GPL project takes a BSD project file expands it then they cannot take it back. | Aug 13 01:01 |
schestowitz | gn | Aug 13 01:01 |
seller_liar | My opinion is use LGPLV3 | Aug 13 01:01 |
seller_liar | gn | Aug 13 01:01 |
oiaohm | Yet the have no problem with closed source. | Aug 13 01:01 |
oiaohm | What is really strange. | Aug 13 01:01 |
oiaohm | Both are really doing the same thing. | Aug 13 01:02 |
seller_liar | good licence and permits to join source code with other licenses | Aug 13 01:02 |
seller_liar | like apache ,bsd and mit | Aug 13 01:02 |
oiaohm | That is another BSD defence line. | Aug 13 01:02 |
seller_liar | But bsd is bad! | Aug 13 01:02 |
seller_liar | and mit is too | Aug 13 01:02 |
fewa | GPL provides freedom that BSD only gives when it feels like it | Aug 13 01:03 |
oiaohm | The developers could have choson public domain instead of BSD by the way. | Aug 13 01:03 |
seller_liar | if all people uses bsd , proprietary software will all the time | Aug 13 01:03 |
seller_liar | public domain is even worst! | Aug 13 01:03 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I dont know why you let trolls in here | Aug 13 01:03 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: there _are_ trolls who spout pro-GNU/GPL stuff | Aug 13 01:03 |
oiaohm | Diablo-D3: this is normal bsd logic. | Aug 13 01:03 |
Diablo-D3 | they are the ones that are most dangerous | Aug 13 01:03 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: what is? | Aug 13 01:03 |
oiaohm | What seller_liar is covering. | Aug 13 01:04 |
fewa | yes | Aug 13 01:04 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: the argument of "bsd is bad because microsoft can use it" is a troll argument | Aug 13 01:04 |
oiaohm | BSD is both good and bad. | Aug 13 01:04 |
oiaohm | No licence is perfect. | Aug 13 01:04 |
fewa | I have had to tell them: without GPL all OSes would be encumbered | Aug 13 01:04 |
seller_liar | I prefer gpl | Aug 13 01:04 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I prefer BSD/MIT and all the clones | Aug 13 01:05 |
seller_liar | BSD is bad because it helps proprietary software | Aug 13 01:05 |
oiaohm | BSD has broad intergration but more risk people will not return code. | Aug 13 01:05 |
seller_liar | proprietary software is bad! | Aug 13 01:05 |
oiaohm | GPL has more patch feed back. | Aug 13 01:05 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: even thats wrong | Aug 13 01:05 |
Diablo-D3 | software that sucks is bad | Aug 13 01:05 |
seller_liar | No | Aug 13 01:05 |
Diablo-D3 | it doesnt matter what license it is as long as it works | Aug 13 01:05 |
oiaohm | Proprietray software is how you define it. | Aug 13 01:05 |
fewa | Diablo-D3 is right | Aug 13 01:05 |
fewa | but not totally | Aug 13 01:05 |
Diablo-D3 | if windows didnt suck I would have never discovered linux | Aug 13 01:05 |
seller_liar | I prefer a bad free software than good proprietary software | Aug 13 01:05 |
oiaohm | Few open source project grow because of proprietray code usage. | Aug 13 01:05 |
Diablo-D3 | its microsoft's direct fault I had to go out and discover it | Aug 13 01:06 |
fewa | if you have no control over the software you cant make it do what you want | Aug 13 01:06 |
oiaohm | Ie closed source modules for a while once its been payed for released open source seller_liar | Aug 13 01:06 |
fewa | Its not just what it does, but what it can do your you | Aug 13 01:06 |
fewa | how you can fix it | Aug 13 01:06 |
oiaohm | Nothing is black and white seller_liar | Aug 13 01:06 |
oiaohm | There are shades of grey. | Aug 13 01:06 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: thats just a feature of foss software in general | Aug 13 01:06 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: if it sucks, I can fix it | Aug 13 01:06 |
Diablo-D3 | BUT IT SHOULDNT SUCK | Aug 13 01:06 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, but its why it is so good | Aug 13 01:06 |
oiaohm | Take ID. All there game engines end up released open source seller_liar | Aug 13 01:06 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, no | Aug 13 01:06 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, even good proprietary software is limiting | Aug 13 01:07 |
oiaohm | But at first they are released closed source so they can profit from it seller_liar. | Aug 13 01:07 |
fewa | when you suddenly need some feature | Aug 13 01:07 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: thats not entirely true | Aug 13 01:07 |
fewa | and if it had every feature it would be bloat | Aug 13 01:07 |
oiaohm | So is ID bad for releaseing closed source software seller_liar? | Aug 13 01:07 |
seller_liar | Of course , some things are grey areas | Aug 13 01:07 |
Diablo-D3 | many proprietary softwares have plugin systems and have free (beer or otherwise) SDKs for them | Aug 13 01:07 |
seller_liar | but morst of software must be free | Aug 13 01:07 |
fewa | true | Aug 13 01:08 |
seller_liar | but a free sdk to a proprietary thing is a bad thing | Aug 13 01:08 |
Diablo-D3 | the software would have to be fundamentally designed wrong for me not to be able to plugin what I want | Aug 13 01:08 |
fewa | seller_liar, it is better than no SDK | Aug 13 01:08 |
oiaohm | I would prefer if proprietary software had to follow the ID model. | Aug 13 01:08 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] People in US sue far less now than they did in 1840s. "litigious society" claims bogus http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/445934 | Aug 13 01:08 | |
seller_liar | fewa: It's better to don t use the software | Aug 13 01:08 |
oiaohm | Ie when you stop support you must release the source code so others can support it. | Aug 13 01:08 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: actually, the id model exists because they wanted games that didnt suck | Aug 13 01:08 |
seller_liar | It's better to use energy to create a free replacement / | Aug 13 01:09 |
oiaohm | ID is a closed source company that does care for there users. | Aug 13 01:09 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: id is lowercase | Aug 13 01:09 |
fewa | seller_liar, but you still have to admit that propritary software that provides some freedoms is better than that which has none | Aug 13 01:09 |
seller_liar | I prefer to use my time to implement gnash than use adobe sdks | Aug 13 01:09 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] People sue far less now than they did in 1840s. "litigious society" claims bogus http://ur1.ca/8y8u http://ur1.ca/8y8p http://ur1.ca/8y8o | Aug 13 01:09 | |
oiaohm | I keep on forgeting sorry Diablo-D3 | Aug 13 01:09 |
Diablo-D3 | and its funny you mention id | Aug 13 01:10 |
seller_liar | fewa: No! | Aug 13 01:10 |
fewa | seller_liar, i said that wrong | Aug 13 01:10 |
oiaohm | They are one of the best examples of how I wish the software world worked Diablo-D3 | Aug 13 01:10 |
fewa | as non-free software is not free | Aug 13 01:10 |
Diablo-D3 | I've played quake1 forever, and the game I currently play uses darkplaces which is an almost complete rewrite of the quake1 engine | Aug 13 01:10 |
seller_liar | fewa: Because we can create dependency in proprietary software | Aug 13 01:10 |
seller_liar | fewa: Because we can not create dependency in proprietary software | Aug 13 01:11 |
oiaohm | There is a line between doing business and not doing business. | Aug 13 01:11 |
Diablo-D3 | there is a line between burning bridges and not. | Aug 13 01:11 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Judge declares red light camera program illegal, and all tickets void. http://ur1.ca/8y98 | Aug 13 01:11 | |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar follows the gnu burn bridges model | Aug 13 01:11 |
oiaohm | proprietary software that does not abuse users don't have long term bad effects of dependency. | Aug 13 01:11 |
fewa | It is better to put time into free software | Aug 13 01:11 |
seller_liar | fewa: yes ! | Aug 13 01:11 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: Wrong | Aug 13 01:12 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, its a refusal to contribute to software which is not ethical | Aug 13 01:12 |
oiaohm | Do companies that follow the id model create stuck to dependency answer no seller_liar. | Aug 13 01:12 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: except even saying ethics is a meaningless statement | Aug 13 01:12 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Refutation of IDG FUD: http://ping.fm/RFfzM | Aug 13 01:12 | |
Diablo-D3 | the world does not revolve around communism | Aug 13 01:12 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: Proprietary sofware is a way to gain more and more power | Aug 13 01:12 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, you need to read your definitions | Aug 13 01:12 |
oiaohm | id used standard like methods of documenting there filesystems. | Aug 13 01:12 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: I never drank the gnu coolaid | Aug 13 01:12 |
oiaohm | seller_liar: abused proprietray does. | Aug 13 01:12 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, and stop misusing words you do not underand | Aug 13 01:12 |
oiaohm | Not companies like id seller_liar | Aug 13 01:13 |
Diablo-D3 | okay, sorry, "flavoraid" | Aug 13 01:13 |
seller_liar | Ther natural way of Proprietary software is gain more and more power | Aug 13 01:13 |
seller_liar | It's like a cancer | Aug 13 01:13 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: s/power/money/ | Aug 13 01:13 |
Diablo-D3 | they're a business, they are mandated to make money | Aug 13 01:13 |
Diablo-D3 | period | Aug 13 01:13 |
oiaohm | Proprietray software using documented standard formats is not a threat seller_liar | Aug 13 01:13 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, you still are not seeing it | Aug 13 01:13 |
oiaohm | Since other are free to clone them. | Aug 13 01:13 |
seller_liar | If proprietary software continue to grow ,someday everything is proprietary | Aug 13 01:13 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: welcome to 1800s america. | Aug 13 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | you're a little late to the party | Aug 13 01:14 |
seller_liar | Diablo-D3: What? | Aug 13 01:14 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, WTF? | Aug 13 01:14 |
oiaohm | We could have open source software and no compadibley and just as bad mess as proprietray now seller_liar | Aug 13 01:14 |
fewa | I think _you_ are trolling | Aug 13 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | we already went through the stage of everything is proprietary | Aug 13 01:14 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, specify what you are talking about | Aug 13 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | no one liked it | Aug 13 01:14 |
oiaohm | seller_liar: most important thing is standards. | Aug 13 01:14 |
Diablo-D3 | what oiaohm just said ties into what I said | Aug 13 01:14 |
oiaohm | You see this if you look at id and other examples. | Aug 13 01:15 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, read about the lates 1800s and early 1900s | Aug 13 01:15 |
Diablo-D3 | the world discovered the beauty of following standards | Aug 13 01:15 |
Diablo-D3 | and we've been happier ever since | Aug 13 01:15 |
oiaohm | id allows have documented there fileformats completely. | Aug 13 01:15 |
Diablo-D3 | foss isnt about sharing code first... its about following and promoting standards first | Aug 13 01:15 |
oiaohm | MS has never even to day documented there fileformats completely. | Aug 13 01:15 |
Diablo-D3 | this is why foss is better software | Aug 13 01:15 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, actions common today are not set in stone forever | Aug 13 01:15 |
oiaohm | Companies with secrect formats have lock in seller_liar. | Aug 13 01:15 |
Diablo-D3 | not because its libre free, not because anyone can fix it, but because its documented sanely. | Aug 13 01:16 |
seller_liar | We are not talking about standarts | Aug 13 01:16 |
seller_liar | software is different than standarts | Aug 13 01:16 |
oiaohm | Properitary software is not a threat if there file formats are standard. | Aug 13 01:16 |
Diablo-D3 | software is an implementation of a standard | Aug 13 01:16 |
fewa | Platforms much be free | Aug 13 01:16 |
oiaohm | That is the simple fact seller_liar. | Aug 13 01:16 |
Diablo-D3 | weather this standard exists outside of that implementation in any form is immaterial | Aug 13 01:16 |
fewa | This is a fact | Aug 13 01:16 |
seller_liar | yes, but software is even more thans standarts | Aug 13 01:16 |
Diablo-D3 | er, whether | Aug 13 01:16 |
seller_liar | proprietary software envolver another ideas | Aug 13 01:17 |
fewa | oiaohm, no, propritary platforms are in themselves threats | Aug 13 01:17 |
oiaohm | Freedom of usage of data does not need to care about propritary. | Aug 13 01:17 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: wrong | Aug 13 01:17 |
Diablo-D3 | software is less than standards | Aug 13 01:17 |
oiaohm | Freedom of usage of data depends on standards. | Aug 13 01:17 |
Diablo-D3 | a free and open standard is more important than any free and open software can be | Aug 13 01:17 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, what are you talking about? | Aug 13 01:17 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, you keep saying things that make no sense | Aug 13 01:17 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: I'm responding to a troll, sup with you? | Aug 13 01:17 |
oiaohm | If you have freedom of usage you can change away from any platform to another without issues. | Aug 13 01:17 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I suspect #bn is full of gnu trolls. | Aug 13 01:18 |
oiaohm | Software closed or open is not the only factor. | Aug 13 01:18 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, what postitions of seller_liar are you refuting? | Aug 13 01:18 |
Diablo-D3 | its kind of scary these kind of people exist | Aug 13 01:18 |
seller_liar | no Diablo-D3 | Aug 13 01:18 |
oiaohm | I can give many examples of companies having major troubles converting between 2 open source packages due to the lack of a common standard. | Aug 13 01:18 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, trolls must be trolling for something | Aug 13 01:18 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: all the ones that involve him trying to destroy the software industry by force. | Aug 13 01:18 |
seller_liar | software is more than standarts | Aug 13 01:18 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, has he said that? | Aug 13 01:18 |
oiaohm | Software is not important seller_liar | Aug 13 01:18 |
oiaohm | Data and standards are. | Aug 13 01:18 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: in not so many words, seller_liar says the bsd license is bad for foss | Aug 13 01:19 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: wrong | Aug 13 01:19 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, he simply says that he does not want to contribute to non-free software | Aug 13 01:19 |
oiaohm | Software will not be replaced. | Aug 13 01:19 |
seller_liar | software = standarts + algos | Aug 13 01:19 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, you do not understand the difference between free will and coercion | Aug 13 01:19 |
seller_liar | software is more than standarts | Aug 13 01:19 |
oiaohm | Standards allow you to use the data in 100~ of years time. | Aug 13 01:19 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, how has seller_liar coerced you> | Aug 13 01:19 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: has anyone put a gun to your head? no. do not use the word coercion again. | Aug 13 01:19 |
fewa | ???? | Aug 13 01:19 |
oiaohm | Software is less important than standards. | Aug 13 01:19 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: wrong! | Aug 13 01:19 |
oiaohm | With standards any software can be replaced. | Aug 13 01:19 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm is right | Aug 13 01:19 |
seller_liar | software = standarts + algos | Aug 13 01:19 |
Diablo-D3 | data freedom is paramount over software freedom | Aug 13 01:20 |
oiaohm | So closed source program can be replaced. | Aug 13 01:20 |
fewa | oiaohm, you are only looking at business logic, not platforms | Aug 13 01:20 |
oiaohm | algos are normally embed in standards. | Aug 13 01:20 |
Diablo-D3 | the _only_ thing that matters is data | Aug 13 01:20 |
seller_liar | standarts is a static idea | Aug 13 01:20 |
Diablo-D3 | software must be replaced regularly, closed or open | Aug 13 01:20 |
seller_liar | software is a dynamic idea | Aug 13 01:20 |
fewa | oiaohm, you dont get that the software is the machine | Aug 13 01:20 |
Diablo-D3 | without standards, you lose your data when you "upgrade" your software | Aug 13 01:20 |
oiaohm | Machines change with time. | Aug 13 01:20 |
oiaohm | Software always has to be replaced. | Aug 13 01:20 |
Diablo-D3 | without standards, even foss would have vendor lockin | Aug 13 01:20 |
fewa | but the software is still the machine | Aug 13 01:20 |
oiaohm | its only a temporarly effect. | Aug 13 01:20 |
fewa | it is how the machine think | Aug 13 01:20 |
oiaohm | Try running windows 95 with 1 G of ram fewa | Aug 13 01:21 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: these people are nutjobs | Aug 13 01:21 |
oiaohm | And on modern day hardware. | Aug 13 01:21 |
fewa | oiaohm, Its a version of manchurian candidate | Aug 13 01:21 |
Diablo-D3 | Im not sure why I keep coming here | Aug 13 01:21 |
fewa | oiaohm, non sequitor | Aug 13 01:21 |
seller_liar | but software is more important even if a temporary thing | Aug 13 01:21 |
seller_liar | because ,software it does the work | Aug 13 01:21 |
seller_liar | standarts not | Aug 13 01:21 |
oiaohm | software is only temp. | Aug 13 01:21 |
fewa | oiaohm, software lasts longer and longer | Aug 13 01:21 |
seller_liar | software is responsible to maitains your machine alive | Aug 13 01:21 |
fewa | it is not longer just business logic | Aug 13 01:21 |
oiaohm | Good standards allow open source or closed source to replace each other. | Aug 13 01:21 |
seller_liar | standarts not! | Aug 13 01:21 |
fewa | oiaohm, non sequitor | Aug 13 01:22 |
oiaohm | Software does not last that long really. | Aug 13 01:22 |
fewa | but it does | Aug 13 01:22 |
seller_liar | but is the most important than standart | Aug 13 01:22 |
fewa | Its only that its been rewritten for sake of competition and for building a free system | Aug 13 01:22 |
oiaohm | Linux kernel oldest bit in there is about 4 years old. | Aug 13 01:22 |
seller_liar | software does not depend of standarts | Aug 13 01:22 |
fewa | I think what oiaohm is saying applies to business logic, but nothing else | Aug 13 01:23 |
oiaohm | software that does not depend on standards for its fileformats cannot be trusted. | Aug 13 01:23 |
seller_liar | standarts helps software ,but it 's not essential | Aug 13 01:23 |
-tomaw-[Global Notice] In memory of a recently deceased good friend: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-787855-start-0-postdays-0-postorder-asc-highlight-.html | Aug 13 01:23 | |
fewa | there are two differnt types of software | Aug 13 01:23 |
oiaohm | 3 different types. | Aug 13 01:23 |
fewa | platform software and business logic software | Aug 13 01:23 |
seller_liar | ruby is a example | Aug 13 01:23 |
*Lns has quit ("Φ") | Aug 13 01:24 | |
fewa | one is how the computer thinks, and the other is what it should think about | Aug 13 01:24 |
oiaohm | platform software business software and data recovery. | Aug 13 01:24 |
oiaohm | You cannot forget data recovery. | Aug 13 01:24 |
fewa | oiaohm, error recovery lawl | Aug 13 01:24 |
seller_liar | free software already is a standard | Aug 13 01:24 |
oiaohm | No it is not seller_liar | Aug 13 01:24 |
fewa | not neglecting | Aug 13 01:24 |
oiaohm | go get recipe book programs in open source seller_liar | Aug 13 01:25 |
oiaohm | You find a lot are incompadible with each other. | Aug 13 01:25 |
oiaohm | Due to no storage standard. | Aug 13 01:25 |
fewa | error recovery is a black hole | Aug 13 01:25 |
seller_liar | but the code is free to change and fix these problems | Aug 13 01:25 |
fewa | UNIX tossed it out for a reason | Aug 13 01:25 |
oiaohm | Flawed logic seller_liar | Aug 13 01:25 |
fewa | oiaohm, but the user can say how the machine thinks | Aug 13 01:25 |
oiaohm | Is everyone a coder. | Aug 13 01:26 |
fewa | thats important | Aug 13 01:26 |
oiaohm | Answer is no. | Aug 13 01:26 |
oiaohm | That is the important thing to remember. | Aug 13 01:26 |
fewa | It is possible to create a system that is a lock | Aug 13 01:26 |
oiaohm | seeing the source code alone does not protect users. | Aug 13 01:26 |
fewa | these systems enslave | Aug 13 01:26 |
seller_liar | of course ,there are a lot of different implementations of ruby | Aug 13 01:26 |
fewa | this is what seller_liar is talking about | Aug 13 01:26 |
fewa | not just freedom to create, but freedom from opressive software | Aug 13 01:26 |
seller_liar | but I can communicate with erveryone because I know how these implementations works | Aug 13 01:26 |
oiaohm | People can be enslaved as a business due to not being able to convert due to lack of standards in applications they started using. | Aug 13 01:26 |
oiaohm | open source with support contracts still can be used in a obpressive way. | Aug 13 01:27 |
fewa | and not just business logic, which is oiaohm's field and which he understands well | Aug 13 01:27 |
seller_liar | proprietary software is not only a business problem | Aug 13 01:27 |
seller_liar | is a knowledge problem | Aug 13 01:27 |
fewa | its beyond business logic | Aug 13 01:27 |
seller_liar | and other problems | Aug 13 01:27 |
fewa | seller_liar has a point | Aug 13 01:27 |
seller_liar | proprietary software put knowledge in jail | Aug 13 01:28 |
seller_liar | for example | Aug 13 01:28 |
oiaohm | If the software does not lock up you data are you stuck using the proprietary software. | Aug 13 01:28 |
seller_liar | imagine a thing | Aug 13 01:28 |
oiaohm | Not all proprietray software puts information in a jail. | Aug 13 01:28 |
seller_liar | You cannot create a windows logo because microsoft owns windows logo | Aug 13 01:28 |
fewa | oiaohm, if the computer thinks on behalf of another actor, you are enslaved by the computer | Aug 13 01:29 |
oiaohm | Not all open source software allows data to move freely to other products. | Aug 13 01:29 |
seller_liar | even if you prove what you done everything alone | Aug 13 01:29 |
oiaohm | Even other open source products. | Aug 13 01:29 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I already said that | Aug 13 01:29 |
fewa | oiaohm, if the computer thinks on your behalf then you are in control, and the machine does your bidding | Aug 13 01:29 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: we abolished slavery awhile ago | Aug 13 01:29 |
oiaohm | Your data should be the most important thing to you. | Aug 13 01:29 |
oiaohm | So you should not use formats that lock it away from you. | Aug 13 01:29 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=slavery | Aug 13 01:30 |
seller_liar | proprietary software destroys knowledge because you cannot use proprietary software to improve your ideas | Aug 13 01:30 |
oiaohm | you don't get taken into slavery if your data does not get trapped. | Aug 13 01:30 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: it's not only a data problem | Aug 13 01:30 |
fewa | oiaohm, only for business logic | Aug 13 01:30 |
oiaohm | It is a data problem seller_liar | Aug 13 01:30 |
seller_liar | no , software is important too | Aug 13 01:30 |
oiaohm | Why MS Office become common. | Aug 13 01:30 |
fewa | but yes for software which employees business logic in obvious ways, you are right | Aug 13 01:30 |
oiaohm | People would send other people MS only formats. | Aug 13 01:31 |
oiaohm | So they would get data they could not access without MS. | Aug 13 01:31 |
fewa | but for the platform, you are not seeing the trap | Aug 13 01:31 |
oiaohm | Data is the big factor. | Aug 13 01:31 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: no , it depends | Aug 13 01:31 |
oiaohm | Data is the force. | Aug 13 01:31 |
seller_liar | for example , the software is data | Aug 13 01:31 |
oiaohm | People go to uni so are told they need word to submit data. | Aug 13 01:32 |
seller_liar | but does not matter for the user | Aug 13 01:32 |
seller_liar | the important thing for the user is the document | Aug 13 01:32 |
seller_liar | but | Aug 13 01:32 |
oiaohm | data traveling between users. | Aug 13 01:32 |
seller_liar | for me the most important this is the document and the software | Aug 13 01:32 |
seller_liar | for me the most important thing is the document and the software | Aug 13 01:32 |
oiaohm | Most important to me in the documents. | Aug 13 01:32 |
oiaohm | If they are free people can change. | Aug 13 01:32 |
fewa | oiaohm, the network is the computer, so standards and formats matter alot, but they are not the only thing that is important | Aug 13 01:32 |
seller_liar | but someday the software can be the document | Aug 13 01:33 |
oiaohm | If they are not free people can get locked into programs that are not suitable. | Aug 13 01:33 |
oiaohm | Open source or closed. | Aug 13 01:33 |
fewa | When the computer runs propritary software it runs according to the will and logic of others | Aug 13 01:33 |
fewa | it does not think to your interest | Aug 13 01:34 |
seller_liar | source code is important too ,but it's not important for common people | Aug 13 01:34 |
oiaohm | Same is true for non programmers always fewa | Aug 13 01:34 |
fewa | oiaohm, but non-programmers can hire a programmer | Aug 13 01:34 |
seller_liar | non programmers is not important | Aug 13 01:34 |
seller_liar | but is important for programmers ! | Aug 13 01:34 |
fewa | oiaohm, it is like saying that a dictaitorship is ok cause only the dictaitor sets laws | Aug 13 01:34 |
oiaohm | Most of the computer users are non programmers. | Aug 13 01:34 |
fewa | oiaohm, but instead in this society you can hire a lawyer | Aug 13 01:34 |
seller_liar | and a common people someday it will need to know about the source code | Aug 13 01:34 |
fewa | thats the difference | Aug 13 01:35 |
oiaohm | The what is dominate in software is defined by the normal users. | Aug 13 01:35 |
seller_liar | but both are important | Aug 13 01:35 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: you say dictatorships are bad... so why does foss have so many of them? | Aug 13 01:35 |
oiaohm | seller_liar: you are thinking from freedom of developers. | Aug 13 01:35 |
fewa | and common people can represent themselves, just like they can hire a lawyer | Aug 13 01:35 |
seller_liar | of course, some people does not matter about source code because it does not know about ethics | Aug 13 01:35 |
oiaohm | I am thinking from freedom of the common people. | Aug 13 01:35 |
seller_liar | no" | Aug 13 01:35 |
Diablo-D3 | foss is not democratic or a republic, its a series of dictatorships who interact with each other superficially | Aug 13 01:35 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, go away, ever FOSS project can be forked | Aug 13 01:36 |
oiaohm | They should be free to move not restricted. | Aug 13 01:36 |
seller_liar | freedom of all people ,because in software ,we use all ideas from knowledge | Aug 13 01:36 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: thats just a revolution who installs another dictator | Aug 13 01:36 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, again you mistake coercion and free will | Aug 13 01:36 |
seller_liar | and knowledge is generated from all people | Aug 13 01:36 |
Diablo-D3 | fewa: I do not | Aug 13 01:36 |
Diablo-D3 | I'm just claiming you're full of shit | Aug 13 01:36 |
oiaohm | I really don't care if a closed source or open source project is restricting a users means to move between programs. Either one is doing wrong. | Aug 13 01:36 |
seller_liar | No , you must care about these things | Aug 13 01:37 |
oiaohm | Means to move freely allow true competition. | Aug 13 01:37 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: but gnutards dont believe gnu is also vendor lockin | Aug 13 01:37 |
seller_liar | because proprietary software can grow and steal all ideas of world | Aug 13 01:37 |
Diablo-D3 | an overlord is an overlord is an overlord | Aug 13 01:37 |
oiaohm | How seller_liar | Aug 13 01:37 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: you cant steal an idea | Aug 13 01:37 |
oiaohm | If all formats the program is using are documented how is it going to steal ideas. | Aug 13 01:38 |
seller_liar | Yes , I can | Aug 13 01:38 |
Diablo-D3 | no, you can be an utter dick, but you cant steal an idea | Aug 13 01:38 |
seller_liar | For example ,you cannot to create a windows logo anymore | Aug 13 01:38 |
Diablo-D3 | the windows logo isnt an idea | Aug 13 01:38 |
seller_liar | even you prove is your creation and you don t look microsoft logo | Aug 13 01:38 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: you need to learn trademark law | Aug 13 01:38 |
oiaohm | Windows logo is a trademark. | Aug 13 01:38 |
oiaohm | You cannot use firefoxs trademark against rules either. | Aug 13 01:39 |
oiaohm | Debian found that out hard way | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, http://pastebin.com/mbb5b082 | Aug 13 01:39 |
seller_liar | yes , but do drawing is still a idea | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | ill paste it here | Aug 13 01:39 |
Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: "oh, but, iceweasel!" | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | "Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society. It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property. If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he ke | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | eps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a s | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | ubject of property." | Aug 13 01:39 |
fewa | Thomas Jefferson | Aug 13 01:39 |
Diablo-D3 | dude, fuck off | Aug 13 01:39 |
Diablo-D3 | go flood elsewhere | Aug 13 01:39 |
seller_liar | the windows logo is trademarked ,but it still a idea | Aug 13 01:40 |
fewa | Diablo-D3, you make the observations, but you end up at a differnt conclusion | Aug 13 01:40 |
seller_liar | because you can implement on a computer or an a paper | Aug 13 01:40 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: its not an idea | Aug 13 01:40 |
Diablo-D3 | you can't patent it, for example | Aug 13 01:40 |
Diablo-D3 | you cant make an implementation of it that actually exists outside of said trademarked art | Aug 13 01:41 |
fewa | you can | Aug 13 01:41 |
fewa | you are just coerced by the government otherwise | Aug 13 01:41 |
seller_liar | Every human knowledge is a idea | Aug 13 01:41 |
seller_liar | drawings , software ,media, songs ...... | Aug 13 01:41 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: not really, no | Aug 13 01:42 |
seller_liar | firefox logo, windows logo and other things | Aug 13 01:42 |
seller_liar | knowledge does not exist outside of human mind | Aug 13 01:42 |
Diablo-D3 | bwahahahahhaah | Aug 13 01:42 |
Diablo-D3 | seller_liar: you need to troll less | Aug 13 01:42 |
fewa | seller_liar, you should read Noam Chomsky's work on linguistics | Aug 13 01:43 |
seller_liar | fewa: why? | Aug 13 01:43 |
fewa | it provides a basis for human grammer | Aug 13 01:44 |
seller_liar | fewa: sorry for my english | Aug 13 01:44 |
fewa | oh ok, then dont | Aug 13 01:44 |
oiaohm | Software patents and trademarks are kinda the same kinds of beast seller_liar | Aug 13 01:51 |
oiaohm | If a software is just protected by copyright it can be cloned. | Aug 13 01:51 |
fewa | Rickard Falkvinge said it: why do we need trademarks when we have laws against fraud | Aug 13 01:52 |
seller_liar | yes, it can be cloned because is a idea | Aug 13 01:52 |
fewa | ?? | Aug 13 01:52 |
fewa | If I misrepresent the origin of something that is fraud | Aug 13 01:52 |
fewa | so why is trademark needed | Aug 13 01:52 |
oiaohm | closed and open source really make no idea to protect to cloning of ideas. | Aug 13 01:53 |
fewa | so it can be bought and sold? so the owners of the trademarks can mis-represent their own products? | Aug 13 01:53 |
seller_liar | to protect against fraud ,maybe | Aug 13 01:53 |
seller_liar | but no to gives freedom to society | Aug 13 01:53 |
oiaohm | fewa: iceweasel case was debian adding patches that created bugs that was making firefox look bad. | Aug 13 01:53 |
fewa | oiaohm, that was a very approiate use of trademark | Aug 13 01:54 |
oiaohm | There is a approiate usage of trademarks. | Aug 13 01:54 |
fewa | but ownership of names, is ownership of development of society | Aug 13 01:54 |
oiaohm | But there is also a lot of bad usage. | Aug 13 01:54 |
oiaohm | I don't know of one good usage of a software patent. | Aug 13 01:54 |
fewa | as it proports that the rules, capital owners, are above those that develop a system | Aug 13 01:55 |
fewa | but it certainly has some uses | Aug 13 01:55 |
oiaohm | software patents interfer with the means to develop software freely. | Aug 13 01:55 |
fewa | it is a form of comsumer protection | Aug 13 01:55 |
fewa | software patents, a very differnt topic, are merely a form of protection racket | Aug 13 01:55 |
fewa | Its designed like drug laws | Aug 13 01:56 |
seller_liar | software patents is not used to ethical reason, only for selfish interests | Aug 13 01:56 |
oiaohm | Lot of what people complain about closed source about link to not use of standards and items like software patents. | Aug 13 01:56 |
fewa | to illegalize the acts so only the state can participate in them | Aug 13 01:56 |
oiaohm | The best line against closed source is data secuirty. | Aug 13 01:57 |
fewa | Mexico is having a war for drugs, as if that market disappeared the government would collapse | Aug 13 01:57 |
oiaohm | Means to audit. | Aug 13 01:57 |
fewa | now they must make illegal free innovation, so they can control it and play favorites | Aug 13 01:58 |
oiaohm | Really the worry about closed source takes away from the bigger more important issue. Will I be able to in future freely create what ever program I need. | Aug 13 01:59 |
fewa | they must brain wash the public, double speak them against their own interests | Aug 13 01:59 |
seller_liar | yes , fewa is right | Aug 13 01:59 |
seller_liar | to strategy of era | Aug 13 01:59 |
oiaohm | Its the reason why I stoped caring if people use close source. | Aug 13 01:59 |
fewa | Yes, a continued regime of software patents is the biggest threat to progress and free innovation | Aug 13 01:59 |
seller_liar | is brainwash the public , for state stay alone | Aug 13 02:00 |
oiaohm | Because close source is equally screwed by the restriction of free innovation. | Aug 13 02:00 |
oiaohm | In the battle for the right to develop what we need closed source companies should be our friends. | Aug 13 02:00 |
*shreddar (i=62f0385c@gateway/web/freenode/x-33df171460213330) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 13 02:00 | |
oiaohm | If they are not they are idiots. | Aug 13 02:00 |
seller_liar | but closing the source is not a friendly thing to do | Aug 13 02:01 |
seller_liar | then , | Aug 13 02:01 |
oiaohm | Take the texus at moment. | Aug 13 02:01 |
fewa | The machines are liberating, the youth knows this. The state must control it or fear being replaced | Aug 13 02:01 |
seller_liar | closed source companies are not our friends | Aug 13 02:01 |
fewa | must control the way the machines think | Aug 13 02:01 |
oiaohm | MS has had a injection that they cannot ship MS word for 60 days due to a patent fewa | Aug 13 02:01 |
oiaohm | Basically patents can block them from selling product. | Aug 13 02:01 |
fewa | oiaohm, exactly, the system is not only for MS | Aug 13 02:01 |
fewa | the system is protect the entrenched and corrupted interests | Aug 13 02:02 |
oiaohm | That is the problem. | Aug 13 02:02 |
seller_liar | not only microsoft | Aug 13 02:02 |
seller_liar | but | Aug 13 02:02 |
oiaohm | Trolls that are not entrenched. | Aug 13 02:02 |
oiaohm | Are causing bigger issues. | Aug 13 02:02 |
seller_liar | exxon, nike,mcdonalds, intel ,banks...... | Aug 13 02:02 |
fewa | Once someone takes a markey | Aug 13 02:02 |
oiaohm | Basically software patents help corrupted interests. | Aug 13 02:02 |
oiaohm | Nothing more. | Aug 13 02:02 |
shreddar | Yeah but couldn't MS just pay the royalties for those XML Doc patents | Aug 13 02:03 |
oiaohm | Everyone else is a target. | Aug 13 02:03 |
fewa | shreddar, they can bringe that new troll into the Neuvo rich club | Aug 13 02:03 |
oiaohm | shreddar: what about the next patent then the next patent. | Aug 13 02:03 |
seller_liar | IBM uses lobby to government to accept patents | Aug 13 02:03 |
oiaohm | Sooner or latter you are paying more in patents than what people will pay for the program. | Aug 13 02:03 |
oiaohm | So effectively closed source dies. | Aug 13 02:03 |
shreddar | Are software pantent really at that point now? | Aug 13 02:04 |
fewa | oiaohm, and then the system shuts down and only the existing software can be sold | Aug 13 02:04 |
seller_liar | and proprietary software helps patent trolls | Aug 13 02:04 |
seller_liar | for example | Aug 13 02:04 |
shreddar | Can you really pantent that freely? | Aug 13 02:04 |
seller_liar | every time you buy a copy of windows , you pay stupid mp3 patents | Aug 13 02:04 |
oiaohm | shreddar: patent trolls only commonly attack closed source. | Aug 13 02:04 |
oiaohm | Reason why attack the guy with no money. | Aug 13 02:04 |
oiaohm | who is going to pay you nothing. | Aug 13 02:04 |
fewa | but the offense is more comprehensive | Aug 13 02:04 |
seller_liar | People using windows helps software patent companies | Aug 13 02:05 |
fewa | as such coersive systems cant survive in the more open market the internet creates | Aug 13 02:05 |
oiaohm | MS will lose worse from software patents than open source. | Aug 13 02:05 |
oiaohm | It is the sad facts. MS backed software patents to destroy open source. What a screw up. | Aug 13 02:06 |
fewa | oiaohm, they are only getting hit as they are on their way down, but they are the same patent agressors | Aug 13 02:06 |
fewa | aha | Aug 13 02:06 |
fewa | the real event is the internet | Aug 13 02:06 |
oiaohm | fewa: way is ION colecting patents. | Aug 13 02:06 |
oiaohm | IBM is not fool. | Aug 13 02:06 |
shreddar | Well, I'm pretty sure they'd still be in this predicament even if they never screwed with linux | Aug 13 02:07 |
seller_liar | IBM is more powerful than microsoft | Aug 13 02:07 |
oiaohm | If there is enough patents all closed source software companies in USA are screwed. | Aug 13 02:07 |
seller_liar | I don t know IBM plans | Aug 13 02:07 |
fewa | not the established interest | Aug 13 02:07 |
seller_liar | but these plans is not good | Aug 13 02:07 |
fewa | as they will always get waivers | Aug 13 02:07 |
oiaohm | and every company would have to join OIN to protect self. | Aug 13 02:07 |
oiaohm | So cure patent problem. | Aug 13 02:07 |
fewa | as business must go on | Aug 13 02:07 |
fewa | people need computers so computers will be sold | Aug 13 02:07 |
fewa | it will just prevent new entrant | Aug 13 02:08 |
seller_liar | OIN does not helps ,OIN helps software patents | Aug 13 02:08 |
seller_liar | The real solution is the end of soft patents | Aug 13 02:08 |
oiaohm | OIN is a long term game seller_liar | Aug 13 02:08 |
fewa | Microsoft is behaving just like Disney did | Aug 13 02:08 |
fewa | its about creating a barrier of entry | Aug 13 02:08 |
oiaohm | If you cannot remove patents. Use them. | Aug 13 02:08 |
seller_liar | OIN is not good | Aug 13 02:08 |
oiaohm | That is the idea of IBM and OIN. | Aug 13 02:08 |
shreddar | Not the ones with the patent they'll dine fine. Also companys who can afford to pay royalties and accuire companies will be living large | Aug 13 02:08 |
shreddar | The sad truth is that the main victim of patents are the consumers | Aug 13 02:09 |
seller_liar | OIN must be only a short term thing | Aug 13 02:09 |
seller_liar | while soft patents are not deestroyed | Aug 13 02:09 |
fewa | shreddar, very, very true | Aug 13 02:09 |
seller_liar | the solution | Aug 13 02:09 |
oiaohm | When every major company is a member of OIN only trolls will be left out side so causing companies to call for software patents to be removed. | Aug 13 02:10 |
seller_liar | Does not buy apple products, | Aug 13 02:10 |
seller_liar | IBM products | Aug 13 02:10 |
oiaohm | Basically long term game seller_liar | Aug 13 02:10 |
seller_liar | Microsoft products | Aug 13 02:10 |
oiaohm | IBM allows all its patents to be used by open source. | Aug 13 02:10 |
seller_liar | these companies are lobbying in favor to soft patents | Aug 13 02:10 |
seller_liar | oiaohm: but soft patents is not good | Aug 13 02:10 |
oiaohm | IBM reason for lobbying is different to MS. | Aug 13 02:11 |
seller_liar | IBM is not our master to decide what or not what to do | Aug 13 02:11 |
oiaohm | Its a ill wind that brings no good seller_liar | Aug 13 02:11 |
shreddar | OIN could easily be used to block new entrance in the software business. Like the MPAA blocks independents from becoming the next FOX or Universal. | Aug 13 02:11 |
oiaohm | OIN is doing what Ms though they could do with software patents. | Aug 13 02:12 |
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oiaohm | Its really following the plan MS layed out to destroy open source with patents. | Aug 13 02:12 |
oiaohm | Just because you can plan to do something dont mean others cannot mirror you plan and use it against you. | Aug 13 02:13 |
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oiaohm | Big thing for ibm is hardware patents. | Aug 13 02:16 |
oiaohm | If ibm can cause the software patent system to stuff up they have a case to review the hardware patent setup. | Aug 13 02:17 |
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shreddar | patents are a way to make money on products without actually make them. | Aug 13 02:19 |
shreddar | If you come up with the idea of VR spores and pantent it you won't have to acctually invest in product development, market research, and advertising. Just pantent and wait for some other company to do it and tell them to pay you a royalty. | Aug 13 02:22 |
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Ziggyfish | http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,25922744-5014239,00.html | Aug 13 02:27 |
Ziggyfish | interesting | Aug 13 02:27 |
shreddar | Google Opt Out Feature Lets Users Protect Privacy By Moving To Remote Village | Aug 13 02:27 |
shreddar | http://www.theonion.com/content/video/google_opt_out_feature_lets_users?utm_source=nav | Aug 13 02:28 |
shreddar | It's funny | Aug 13 02:28 |
Ziggyfish | Microsoft to appeal court ban on Word sales | Aug 13 02:28 |
shreddar | I kinda hope that they defense is that all software patents are invalid. | Aug 13 02:31 |
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fewa | just like in Apple v. Microsoft | Aug 13 02:44 |
tessier | You guys see that thing today about Microsoft being enjoined from selling Word in 60 days? | Aug 13 03:14 |
tessier | Funny thing is I bet this won't change their opinion of software patents on bit. | Aug 13 03:15 |
Ziggyfish | I just find it a bit ironic that they have wasted so much money on OOXML, and now it can't be used. (At least ODF is safe, or is it?) | Aug 13 03:17 |
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shreddar | Nokia's Linux strategy broadens with upcoming Maemo 5 device | Aug 13 03:36 |
shreddar | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/08/nokias-linux-strategy-broadens-with-upcoming-maemo-5-device.ars | Aug 13 03:37 |
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cubezzz | this journalist is saying windows runs on 95% of the world's computers | Aug 13 04:23 |
cubezzz | I don't think it's that high | Aug 13 04:23 |
Ziggyfish | cubezzz, he must work for microsoft? | Aug 13 04:38 |
cubezzz | no way to tell | Aug 13 04:43 |
cubezzz | 89.6% according to another source | Aug 13 04:44 |
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fewa | number is obviously wrong | Aug 13 05:15 |
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neighborlee | http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10308013-75.html | Aug 13 07:03 |
neighborlee | oh the irony | Aug 13 07:06 |
Ziggyfish | it looks like the ODF doesn't infringe on the patent. | Aug 13 07:08 |
neighborlee | I was also wondering | Aug 13 07:08 |
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schestowitz | Chamber Sees Reform as an Attack on Free Enterprise < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8494 > | Aug 13 07:57 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another group of lobbyists that changes the climate and might as well take us to extinction: http://ping.fm/KL8aN | Aug 13 08:00 | |
schestowitz | Google Puts the World at the Tip of Painter's Brush http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=8295043&page=1 | Aug 13 08:06 |
schestowitz | Damn those Windows zombies | Aug 13 08:16 |
schestowitz | In one domain I have like 2000 visits a day from Windows zombies | Aug 13 08:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Time to take Windows off the Internet. In one site, zombies make up like 98% of the traffic and I need to pay extra for bandwidth becaus ... | Aug 13 08:18 | |
MinceR | did you know that 92.68% of all statistics are made up on the spot? | Aug 13 08:24 |
MinceR | :> | Aug 13 08:24 |
schestowitz | All generalisations are false except this one. | Aug 13 08:27 |
schestowitz | One Hundred Paper Cuts Round 6 Progress Report < http://davidsiegel.org/100papercuts-round6/ > Calling it paper cuts is bad PR from Canonical | Aug 13 08:29 |
schestowitz | Bug=gore | Aug 13 08:29 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu migration support services - A move long overdue. < http://sinaisix.blogspot.com/2009/08/ubuntu-migration-support-services-move.html > "Lets face it, Windows has a superior user support than Linux." What the heck is user support? I think he means support from some person on the phone. | Aug 13 08:31 |
schestowitz | omg hypephone !! http://blogs.opennms.org/?p=1066 | Aug 13 08:32 |
schestowitz | An ignorant 'article' talks about ignorance. http://techie-buzz.com/linux-tips/linux-ignorance-so-not-bliss.html | Aug 13 08:33 |
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schestowitz | Ubuntu: The Family Sedan of the Linux World. http://jaysonrowe.com/2009/08/11/ubuntu-the-family-sedan-of-the-linux-world/ | Aug 13 08:41 |
schestowitz | These people forget something: "For those who are unfamiliar with the term "Open Source," firstly let me explain a bit more what this is about. In the 90s, the IT community started to show increased interest in freely shared software." http://www.industryweek.com/articles/the_power_of_open_source_19742.aspx?SectionID=4 | Aug 13 08:43 |
schestowitz | They always ignore Free/libre software | Aug 13 08:43 |
schestowitz | As if time began when Linus came from Finland or ESR escaped FS | Aug 13 08:43 |
schestowitz | "Debian: contempt for "end user" values has to stop!" http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/debian_contempt_end_user_values_has_stop | Aug 13 08:46 |
schestowitz | Lots of rants have come from FSM recently | Aug 13 08:46 |
schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=22620 "If the attendance at the opening keynote for OpenSource World (formerly known as LinuxWorld) serves as a barometer for anything to do with the economy, the tech industry or even trade shows, things are not looking good." | Aug 13 08:49 |
schestowitz | Wow!!! "Cloud"... | Aug 13 08:50 |
schestowitz | It figures | Aug 13 08:50 |
schestowitz | People don't even know what the heck it us.. | Aug 13 08:50 |
schestowitz | "CloudWorld"..... awwwwwwwwww :-) | Aug 13 08:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Story of Migration to GNU/Linux and Why Apple is Rejected http://ping.fm/PddsL | Aug 13 09:02 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Technical School changes to Ubuntu and saves Millions http://ping.fm/sOzUw | Aug 13 09:03 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Collection of Linux Graffiti Sightings http://ping.fm/c0bCn | Aug 13 09:03 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Choice Can Mean More Than One Distribution at the Same Time http://ping.fm/bLjSp | Aug 13 09:12 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linus Torvalds is Still Coding http://ping.fm/FdkTL | Aug 13 09:14 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Online Banking Better Done with GNU/Linux on the Desktop http://ping.fm/V1gUM | Aug 13 09:17 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Call for Web Sites to Provide GNU/Linux Comparisons http://ping.fm/2Kn3Z | Aug 13 09:19 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE 4.3 Claims 2,000 New Features http://ping.fm/4T1JV | Aug 13 09:31 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Reviews of SAM Linux 2009 and Arch Linux http://ping.fm/YDT95 http://ping.fm/C4ksh | Aug 13 09:35 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox is Looking Test Pilots http://ping.fm/IkMXk | Aug 13 09:46 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Proprietary DVRs Spy on Viewers http://ping.fm/gwCpu | Aug 13 09:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Censorship on the Web (by Jailing Blogger) http://ping.fm/sb9zD | Aug 13 09:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Pharmaceutical Cartel Uses Patents to Increase Deaths http://ping.fm/AoJex | Aug 13 09:57 | |
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schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neMEo8ZrwuI&feature=related | Aug 13 10:57 |
amarsh04 | schestowitz, I submitted a comment to the free software magazine article (awaiting moderation) - the author was unaware of snapshot.debian.net, but I agreed with some of his points | Aug 13 11:12 |
schestowitz | I think they rarely reply | Aug 13 11:13 |
schestowitz | balzac wrote for them a few time | Aug 13 11:13 |
schestowitz | balzac wrote for them a few times | Aug 13 11:13 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Type of Ownership of Mathematics and Human Life http://ping.fm/CHEYr | Aug 13 11:24 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and Friends Want to Add More Bugs to OOXML http://ping.fm/EBzRh | Aug 13 11:55 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dell Defends GNU/Linux Sub-notebooks, Dismisses Microsoft’s FUD http://ping.fm/tPcMF | Aug 13 12:28 | |
schestowitz | Is this sqlitesharp? http://trac.panicode.com/bug/browser/SQLiteSharp?rev=2230&order=size&desc=1 | Aug 13 12:48 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Sqlite Sharp Can Harm GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/Yt48d | Aug 13 13:07 | |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Aug 13 13:18 | |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Aug 13 13:18 | |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Aug 13 13:18 | |
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Aug 13 13:18 | |
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 13 13:18 | |
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*=DaemonFC@*.hsd1.in.comcast.net | Aug 13 13:18 | |
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@173-10-126-202-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net | Aug 13 13:19 | |
Diablo-D3 | heh, you finally got tired of him? | Aug 13 13:19 |
MinceR | he did | Aug 13 13:22 |
MinceR | so he opped me | Aug 13 13:22 |
MinceR | :> | Aug 13 13:22 |
MinceR | but it looks like we're back for more punishment :> | Aug 13 13:22 |
schestowitz | Hehe. | Aug 13 13:34 |
schestowitz | He provokes on purpose | Aug 13 13:34 |
MinceR | don't let him. | Aug 13 13:35 |
MinceR | if he can't talk, he can't provoke. | Aug 13 13:35 |
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Aug 13 13:38 | |
schestowitz | bbl | Aug 13 13:38 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Vulnerable to Latest “Critical” Flaws http://ping.fm/XZImA | Aug 13 13:38 | |
oiaohm | This is being light today. | Aug 13 14:22 |
Schestowitz, watch out for the Kundra story. It seems his masters degree was found at another university. Dvorak has changed his story and the quote you used is gone. Looks like a lot of hatchet jobs are out for a guy who likes Google Docs for government. | Aug 13 14:36 | |
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/08/12/special-report-is-us-chief-information-officer-cio-vivek-kundra-a-phony/ | Aug 13 14:36 | |
Diablo-D3 | http://www.grabup.com/uploads/b1ee8658b30ba5f69986dfeed4c3246d.png?direct | Aug 13 14:38 |
Who is Ryan? | Aug 13 14:44 | |
MinceR | IdiotFC | Aug 13 14:45 |
MinceR | at least he's a Ryan. | Aug 13 14:46 |
hmph. | Aug 13 14:58 | |
http://slashdot.org/submission/1055145/Windows-7-Security-Woes-and-the-M-RTM-Lie | Aug 13 14:58 | |
Vista 7 Failure Log is updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Aug 13 14:59 | |
oiaohm | You missed a bit Windows 7 including XP so it has compadiblity with past applications twitter. Yet it does not really work for a lot of applications twitter | Aug 13 15:03 |
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Eruaran | New network manager for kde is a step in the right direction | Aug 13 16:22 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "2 Brothers on the 4th floor - Dreams (Will come alive) 1994" ♫ http://blip.fm/~bn03e | Aug 13 16:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "2 Brothers On The 4th Floor - Living In Cyberspace" ♫ http://blip.fm/~bn0h5 | Aug 13 17:00 | |
schestowitz | Important Reminder: Your Innovations Are Not Immortal < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090808/1921155815.shtml > | Aug 13 17:08 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: I remember some complaints about it in 4.0 | Aug 13 17:08 |
schestowitz | KDE 4.0 should have been called develop preview or somehting | Aug 13 17:08 |
schestowitz | They had a marketing gaffe, which is a shame cause it's a great new environment that could capture more skeptics | Aug 13 17:09 |
schestowitz | [and retain Linus] | Aug 13 17:09 |
schestowitz | Do Hourly Employees Even Make Sense Any More? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090811/0229535839.shtml > | Aug 13 17:09 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Asda "Happy Star" potato shapes are bloody hard to tessellate in an oven dish! | Aug 13 17:14 | |
neighborlee | isnt' it wonderful, how stargate adopts silverlight..which is at version 3, while moonlight struggles at v2alpha ? | Aug 13 17:21 |
schestowitz | Stephen Hawking both British and not dead < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/hawking_british_and_alive/ > | Aug 13 17:21 |
neighborlee | yup I heard on cnn last night | Aug 13 17:21 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: part of the plan, BUT | Aug 13 17:21 |
schestowitz | I'\m not worried | Aug 13 17:21 |
schestowitz | Silver Lie is dying | Aug 13 17:21 |
neighborlee | me either really | Aug 13 17:21 |
neighborlee | gosh I Hope so | Aug 13 17:22 |
schestowitz | I swear to you it makes no headlines | Aug 13 17:22 |
neighborlee | I was really angry seeing stargate support it..but hey...thats poltiics for ya | Aug 13 17:22 |
schestowitz | It'll leave a trail of stupid sites | Aug 13 17:22 |
schestowitz | Like.MAX files | Aug 13 17:22 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is general is not in good shape | Aug 13 17:23 |
neighborlee | and I really admire stargate/atlantis series....as much as that, I refused to downoad silverlight plugin | Aug 13 17:23 |
schestowitz | THey try to spread it but with little visible output | Aug 13 17:23 |
neighborlee | ill deny my temptation 100% on that front ;) | Aug 13 17:23 |
schestowitz | They still PAY to get 'customers' | Aug 13 17:23 |
schestowitz | Better not to mentiont it | Aug 13 17:23 |
schestowitz | I stopped mentioning it in BN | Aug 13 17:23 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: that's US TV | Aug 13 17:23 |
neighborlee | :( | Aug 13 17:24 |
schestowitz | I think Italian TV fell for it too, but not much more | Aug 13 17:24 |
neighborlee | ah ic | Aug 13 17:24 |
schestowitz | That's the Microsoft-oriented world | Aug 13 17:24 |
schestowitz | The UK uses Flash | Aug 13 17:24 |
neighborlee | any word on if flash is workingon something similar..flex ? | Aug 13 17:24 |
schestowitz | I can't think of a place to find Silver Lie here | Aug 13 17:24 |
neighborlee | hm ic | Aug 13 17:24 |
neighborlee | interesting.. | Aug 13 17:24 |
schestowitz | And Europe has too much Linux to permit Silver Lie | Aug 13 17:24 |
neighborlee | go UK | Aug 13 17:24 |
neighborlee | the UK, that would kill hawkings ..lol what a joke | Aug 13 17:24 |
schestowitz | Actually, Ryan Air is the only UK-based company which I know uses SIlver Lie | Aug 13 17:25 |
neighborlee | its embarrasing at times like this to be in america I tell ya..astonishing<< | Aug 13 17:25 |
schestowitz | neighborlee: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRbByoKqFgQ | Aug 13 17:25 |
schestowitz | Good video | Aug 13 17:25 |
neighborlee | grassley really irritated me yesterday..im FROM iowa, and he goes and says heatlh care reform will KILL seniors | Aug 13 17:25 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/01/ryanair-closes-the-web/ | Aug 13 17:25 |
neighborlee | outrageous.. | Aug 13 17:25 |
neighborlee | hm | Aug 13 17:26 |
schestowitz | grassley stood up to the VOle | Aug 13 17:26 |
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schestowitz | That's how I know him | Aug 13 17:26 |
neighborlee | VOle? | Aug 13 17:26 |
schestowitz | Microsoft to Grassley re Abramoff Visas: STFU < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/05/abramoff-visas-ms-defense/ > | Aug 13 17:26 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vole | Aug 13 17:26 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vole_%28Star_Trek%29#Cardassian_vole | Aug 13 17:27 |
schestowitz | This is the Microsoft VOle origin | Aug 13 17:27 |
schestowitz | INQirer slang | Aug 13 17:27 |
neighborlee | oh ic | Aug 13 17:28 |
schestowitz | Xen-trix - no mention of Linux. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/23/citrix_microsoft_server_virt/ | Aug 13 17:28 |
neighborlee | yeah well, I guess he lost her nerve, when it came to no doubt money from heatlh care inudstry | Aug 13 17:28 |
schestowitz | Sold out to the Vole :-) | Aug 13 17:28 |
neighborlee | lol | Aug 13 17:28 |
schestowitz | They can't be anything to everyone | Aug 13 17:28 |
schestowitz | They can only fool people and double-speak to give the illusion they serve all sides | Aug 13 17:29 |
schestowitz | They are funded by companies in one way or another | Aug 13 17:29 |
neighborlee | his mistake was thinking people are so dumb that they dont notice, or keep up | Aug 13 17:29 |
schestowitz | So conflicts of interets, .lobbying and brainwash take over politics | Aug 13 17:29 |
neighborlee | of course | Aug 13 17:29 |
neighborlee | as always..status-quo | Aug 13 17:29 |
neighborlee | until obama ;) | Aug 13 17:29 |
schestowitz | Unless you're Stalin rt something | Aug 13 17:29 |
neighborlee | eelk | Aug 13 17:30 |
neighborlee | eek | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | Obama is not popular | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | Not surprising | Aug 13 17:30 |
neighborlee | well | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | Many death threats, I've learned | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | He's popular among the liberal crowd, sure | Aug 13 17:30 |
neighborlee | yes,,rich want to keep their care,,so much so they are preyed on by heatlh care industry to scare them | Aug 13 17:30 |
neighborlee | typical | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | But that's a minority in an increasingly frustrated country | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | Crime is rising here | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | Obviously, due to poverty | Aug 13 17:30 |
schestowitz | Don't worry about those poor old rich people... they have their second condo down in FL | Aug 13 17:31 |
neighborlee | well..something will pass, whether health industry wants it or jnot | Aug 13 17:31 |
neighborlee | not | Aug 13 17:31 |
neighborlee | and im sure its going to cause a tidal wave of some sort | Aug 13 17:31 |
neighborlee | oh well-life will go on | Aug 13 17:31 |
neighborlee | :) | Aug 13 17:31 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/12/palm_pre_privacy_concerns/ | Aug 13 17:31 |
schestowitz | ^many companies would do this | Aug 13 17:32 |
schestowitz | Carriers do too | Aug 13 17:32 |
neighborlee | maybe those militia will move to alaska orsomething to be with palin ;)( | Aug 13 17:32 |
neighborlee | and shoot wolves all day | Aug 13 17:32 |
neighborlee | o_0 | Aug 13 17:32 |
schestowitz | Heh. | Aug 13 17:32 |
schestowitz | Militia | Aug 13 17:32 |
schestowitz | Scary place to be, eh? | Aug 13 17:32 |
neighborlee | quite | Aug 13 17:32 |
schestowitz | Military within a militant country | Aug 13 17:32 |
schestowitz | That's what happens when military-grade weapons are distributed like toyz | Aug 13 17:33 |
neighborlee | of course | Aug 13 17:33 |
schestowitz | I was thinking today.... | Aug 13 17:33 |
schestowitz | How secure are nuclear weapon triggers..? | Aug 13 17:33 |
neighborlee | good questoin | Aug 13 17:33 |
neighborlee | ive often wondered | Aug 13 17:33 |
schestowitz | Like... if there's some crazy submatine commander, can he launch? | Aug 13 17:33 |
neighborlee | heh | Aug 13 17:33 |
neighborlee | so far so good | Aug 13 17:33 |
schestowitz | Or is there need for some remote digital auth from the white house? | Aug 13 17:33 |
neighborlee | but yeah-- | Aug 13 17:34 |
schestowitz | Cause it almost happened 30 years ago | Aug 13 17:34 |
schestowitz | Full nuclear exchange | Aug 13 17:34 |
neighborlee | yes | Aug 13 17:34 |
schestowitz | Nuclear issues are greater than environmental ones, IMHO | Aug 13 17:34 |
neighborlee | ban em..they pollute anyway :) | Aug 13 17:34 |
schestowitz | It doesn't even take a world war | Aug 13 17:34 |
schestowitz | It's enough for someone to hijack some weapon from a plant and detonate it locally | Aug 13 17:34 |
neighborlee | just dont tell N korea ;)) | Aug 13 17:34 |
neighborlee | EEK | Aug 13 17:34 |
schestowitz | The radiation alone would poison the surroundings for decades | Aug 13 17:35 |
neighborlee | yup | Aug 13 17:35 |
schestowitz | Not to mention effect on the atmosphere | Aug 13 17:35 |
neighborlee | well we're damaged as it is | Aug 13 17:35 |
neighborlee | hole in ozone ;( | Aug 13 17:35 |
schestowitz | Maybe I just watched too many astronomy videos, I don't know | Aug 13 17:35 |
schestowitz | Activism against nuclear weaspons | Aug 13 17:35 |
neighborlee | wait | Aug 13 17:35 |
neighborlee | not ozone so much...radiation belt I think | Aug 13 17:35 |
schestowitz | our own advacement is making us ready for extictions | Aug 13 17:35 |
schestowitz | And many other animals too, I worry about this | Aug 13 17:36 |
neighborlee | polar bears | Aug 13 17:36 |
schestowitz | Nucelar weapons are not even high-tech. They predate primitive computers | Aug 13 17:36 |
neighborlee | I feel so bad for them | Aug 13 17:36 |
schestowitz | Was it Project manhattan? | Aug 13 17:36 |
neighborlee | they are at our mercy ;( | Aug 13 17:36 |
neighborlee | dunno | Aug 13 17:36 |
schestowitz | Which was about getting the stuff before the germans? | Aug 13 17:36 |
schestowitz | Imagine if the Germans had it first. | Aug 13 17:36 |
neighborlee | shrug | Aug 13 17:36 |
neighborlee | yeah | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | Didn you watch documenatries about the polar bears? | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | o_0 | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | I watched one last month | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | long ago yes | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | thats why it bothers me | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | They dramatise it, but nonetheless it's a real issue | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | amoung other reasons | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | There's drift nets too | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | yes | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | WIping up the ocean for profit | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | affects fish too | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | It's prohibited | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | yes | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | and the poor whales | Aug 13 17:37 |
schestowitz | They spread bounders in he oceans now cause it's hard to police | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | mankinds arrogance is without end atm | Aug 13 17:37 |
neighborlee | the joke is on us though...if we dont stop | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | I guess we can scoop up and eliminate all fauna before our own run for food | Aug 13 17:38 |
neighborlee | :) | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | One frantic pursuit for food | Aug 13 17:38 |
neighborlee | eek | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | And energy is needed to produce food too | Aug 13 17:38 |
neighborlee | oh btw | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | It's like the bubble, you know\? | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | Here's how I see it: | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | Housing bubble | Aug 13 17:38 |
neighborlee | did you hear about algea energ ;) | Aug 13 17:38 |
neighborlee | energy > | Aug 13 17:38 |
schestowitz | Assume input (loans repaid) until it's gone | Aug 13 17:39 |
schestowitz | In the food chain it's simiar | Aug 13 17:39 |
schestowitz | Assume available of food, grow popluation based on flawed assumption | Aug 13 17:39 |
schestowitz | It's like bad debt | Aug 13 17:39 |
neighborlee | yeah well..our lasting legacy ;) | Aug 13 17:39 |
schestowitz | Then there's fossil fuel, which is finite and running out | Aug 13 17:39 |
schestowitz | That too is a bubble | Aug 13 17:39 |
neighborlee | to be stewards...has long been forgotten by some | Aug 13 17:40 |
schestowitz | Algae energy? | Aug 13 17:40 |
neighborlee | thankfully, not by all | Aug 13 17:40 |
schestowitz | how much algae is there? | Aug 13 17:40 |
neighborlee | tons | Aug 13 17:40 |
schestowitz | What would the fish eat? | Aug 13 17:40 |
schestowitz | What happens to water life? | Aug 13 17:40 |
neighborlee | its being made in plants | Aug 13 17:40 |
neighborlee | experimental atm I think | Aug 13 17:40 |
neighborlee | heard about it on hist channelI think last month | Aug 13 17:40 |
schestowitz | Corn and biofuels have an isue | Aug 13 17:41 |
schestowitz | THey need fossil fuel to be made operaitonal | Aug 13 17:41 |
neighborlee | http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/04/01/algae.oil/index.html | Aug 13 17:41 |
schestowitz | So the trap is circular and the same goes for wind power | Aug 13 17:41 |
neighborlee | this is green fuel :) | Aug 13 17:41 |
schestowitz | WHat's with the Polar Bears and Whales making all the headlines? Oh, and panda bears. | Aug 13 17:42 |
schestowitz | I guess they're just large of cute | Aug 13 17:42 |
schestowitz | Thus unique | Aug 13 17:42 |
schestowitz | Not many people mind extinction of sharks | Aug 13 17:42 |
schestowitz | Biggest fish | Aug 13 17:42 |
neighborlee | well | Aug 13 17:42 |
neighborlee | sharks can swim where they need to....already in water and rather well adapted.sof ar anyway | Aug 13 17:42 |
neighborlee | polar bears cute yes..but survive not so sure | Aug 13 17:43 |
neighborlee | you've seen the specials, so you get it | Aug 13 17:43 |
neighborlee | but they too need protecting yes | Aug 13 17:43 |
schestowitz | There have been many extinctions in the past 100 years | Aug 13 17:43 |
neighborlee | yeah | Aug 13 17:44 |
schestowitz | In fact, 99% of the Earth's specific are already extinct | Aug 13 17:44 |
schestowitz | *species | Aug 13 17:44 |
schestowitz | Or 98%, I don't remember | Aug 13 17:44 |
schestowitz | So we might be no more special than the dinosaurs | Aug 13 17:44 |
neighborlee | well ,,as our global weather is COMPlex and we dont get it yet..so is the animal ecosystem | Aug 13 17:44 |
neighborlee | a few things out of order..and bam | Aug 13 17:44 |
schestowitz | Bam? | Aug 13 17:45 |
neighborlee | shuts down | Aug 13 17:45 |
schestowitz | Meteors don't hit Earth quite so often | Aug 13 17:45 |
schestowitz | Not on the scale of life | Aug 13 17:45 |
neighborlee | right | Aug 13 17:45 |
schestowitz | Maybe some oceans were hit by them like 13k years ago | Aug 13 17:45 |
neighborlee | mariana trench maybe ;))lol | Aug 13 17:45 |
schestowitz | Nokia exec denies Symbian Maemo swap claim < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/13/nokia_denies_maemo/ > | Aug 13 17:46 |
schestowitz | Nokia goes to bed with Microsoft as well, for Office | Aug 13 17:46 |
schestowitz | Money-grabbing moves | Aug 13 17:46 |
neighborlee | hm | Aug 13 17:47 |
neighborlee | mabye dangerous..xml suit LOL | Aug 13 17:47 |
neighborlee | hmm did you hear about the new way of getting clean water..I hope its the real thing and that it helps many in need | Aug 13 17:47 |
neighborlee | plastic bottle with pump,,etc. | Aug 13 17:48 |
neighborlee | which can be another issue..plastic in oceans is also a problem ;0 | Aug 13 17:48 |
neighborlee | one thing for sure..humanity will stay busy solving these things ;))) | Aug 13 17:48 |
neighborlee | if we live long enough ;))heh | Aug 13 17:48 |
neighborlee | brb | Aug 13 17:48 |
schestowitz | Water must be getting worse in quality | Aug 13 17:50 |
schestowitz | More contaminated as the cycles go own. Purification might be needed, so where will the waste go? | Aug 13 17:51 |
schestowitz | The corrupt publisher goes away.... "Business publisher Reed Elsevier is outsourcing its IT support staff. Their jobs will go to HCL Technologies, a leading Indian offshorer. "< http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/reed_it_job_cuts/ > | Aug 13 17:51 |
cubezzz | microsoft probably will try to put windows on every electronic device ever made, but people knowledgeable enough will simply reprogram things the way they like | Aug 13 17:53 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's changes are coming to SERPs. http://ping.fm/P5ahG | Aug 13 17:53 | |
cubezzz | I suppose the real power lies with the chip manufacturers | Aug 13 17:55 |
schestowitz | Smartphone Sales Up 27% < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/08/13/smartphone-sales-up-27 > THis doesn't tell the full story about phones and PDAs | Aug 13 17:56 |
schestowitz | It's like saying that sales of Blue-Ray increase (while DVD declineS) | Aug 13 17:57 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: yes, I have some Comes exhibits where you can vividly see how worried Microsoft is about Linux in this area of gagdgets | Aug 13 17:58 |
schestowitz | People think of computers as this thing on their desk with teletubby wallpaper | Aug 13 17:58 |
schestowitz | But most computers are not desktops | Aug 13 17:58 |
schestowitz | Only about 2% of them, AFAIK | Aug 13 17:58 |
cubezzz | I would have thought the percentage would be much higher | Aug 13 17:59 |
schestowitz | Even some keyboards are powered by Linux now | Aug 13 17:59 |
schestowitz | Every little microchip runs something, maybe on ROM | Aug 13 17:59 |
schestowitz | Windows is a poor piece of code and expensive too | Aug 13 18:00 |
schestowitz | I thought it would be lower | Aug 13 18:00 |
schestowitz | But given that ARM alone made 10 billion chips, you get the picture sooner or later | Aug 13 18:01 |
schestowitz | Many TVs -- as they gets smarter -- run Linux | Aug 13 18:01 |
cubezzz | which TV runs Linux? | Aug 13 18:02 |
schestowitz | Sony for starters | Aug 13 18:02 |
schestowitz | Pimp your Linux satellite box & get TV on your PC! http://www.techradar.com/news/television/pimp-your-linux-satellite-box-get-tv-on-your-pc--492020 | Aug 13 18:02 |
schestowitz | Taming a power-sucking Linux TV http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3462011464.html?kc=rss | Aug 13 18:03 |
schestowitz | WiFi digital camera runs Linux http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2881537833.html?kc=rss | Aug 13 18:03 |
schestowitz | Linux fast-boot scheme targets TVs http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8282586707.html | Aug 13 18:04 |
schestowitz | Don't kill your television--study it! http://www.opensource.org/node/371 | Aug 13 18:04 |
cubezzz | that could be a nice selling point for Linux fans | Aug 13 18:04 |
schestowitz | Linux device links TVs to Internet videos http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8497272379.html?kc=rss | Aug 13 18:04 |
schestowitz | Embedded Linux has more friends than you may know http://www.embedded.com/columns/guest/207602734 | Aug 13 18:04 |
schestowitz | Could be advertised by Sony wit Tux logo on each TV | Aug 13 18:04 |
schestowitz | Then people would recognize the 'Lunix thing' from TV | Aug 13 18:05 |
schestowitz | But some of them use WInd River(Intel)/MontaVista | Aug 13 18:05 |
schestowitz | So it's a little proprietary in some cases | Aug 13 18:05 |
schestowitz | Hahhaa: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/08/13/on2-shareholders-file-lawsuits-to-stop-google-deal (On2 Shareholders File Lawsuits To Stop Google\) | Aug 13 18:06 |
schestowitz | Very bad PR for Google | Aug 13 18:06 |
schestowitz | Buzzwords like "cloud" Are a Disease(R) http://searchcio.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid182_gci1364027,00.html | Aug 13 18:10 |
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yuhong | My opinion of BN is that though I don't agree with everything said on it, especially on Windows, I do like it, especially for exposing MS's Linux shenanigans. | Aug 13 18:13 |
yuhong | As well as the astroturfing. | Aug 13 18:14 |
yuhong | Which are bad things whether you like Windows or not. | Aug 13 18:14 |
cubezzz | in North America, I can't seem to find linux based stuff in stores, like a linux based DVR, PDA, etc | Aug 13 18:15 |
schestowitz | yuhong: which points do you disagree with? | Aug 13 18:16 |
schestowitz | If you raise an issue this helps improve | Aug 13 18:16 |
yuhong | Mostly I don't agree with all of the Windows related parts. | Aug 13 18:16 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: I doubt it. Linux is in los o f stuff | Aug 13 18:16 |
schestowitz | TomTom, TiVo.... | Aug 13 18:17 |
yuhong | Yep. | Aug 13 18:17 |
cubezzz | TiVo is bad though... | Aug 13 18:17 |
schestowitz | Moments ago I found this out [new to me!!] | Aug 13 18:17 |
schestowitz | http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/realdvd-software-still-banned-from-sale-624897 | Aug 13 18:17 |
schestowitz | "Called Facet, it is a hardware version of RealDVD which is Linux-based and has the capacity to hold around 70 DVDs digitally." | Aug 13 18:17 |
schestowitz | They never ever advetised this as Linux | Aug 13 18:17 |
schestowitz | Many DVRs now run Linux (the kernel) | Aug 13 18:17 |
yuhong | I mean, some of the Windows articles. | Aug 13 18:17 |
yuhong | Look at my comments to this one: | Aug 13 18:18 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/13/vista-7-rtm-was-vulnerable/ | Aug 13 18:18 |
schestowitz | AutoTrader web site switches to Linux http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2247736/autotrader-web-site-upgrades | Aug 13 18:18 |
cubezzz | I'd love a linux based DVR | Aug 13 18:18 |
schestowitz | There are at least 3 in the US | Aug 13 18:18 |
schestowitz | Can't recall which | Aug 13 18:18 |
schestowitz | Cause it's American providers | Aug 13 18:18 |
schestowitz | You'd be surprised how many sil;ently run Linux | Aug 13 18:19 |
yuhong | Yep, Linux is so common you are often running it without realizing it. | Aug 13 18:19 |
cubezzz | right, but I'd rather know it's got linux embedded before I buy | Aug 13 18:20 |
schestowitz | It's not a freedom enabler quite | Aug 13 18:20 |
schestowitz | That's where I kind of lose interests sometimes | Aug 13 18:20 |
schestowitz | Id on't sacrifice to just help yet another OS be packed up so closely. | Aug 13 18:20 |
schestowitz | That achieves little and almost nothing | Aug 13 18:20 |
schestowitz | But it helps us cause it supports Linux | Aug 13 18:21 |
schestowitz | It puts money in the Foundation | Aug 13 18:21 |
cubezzz | ok, I'll give a good example of what I'd like to get... | Aug 13 18:21 |
schestowitz | Which gives up better h/d support a each iteration | Aug 13 18:21 |
cubezzz | some kind of dvd player that runs mplayer | Aug 13 18:21 |
cubezzz | can handle mkv files | Aug 13 18:21 |
schestowitz | Look at Neuros | Aug 13 18:21 |
schestowitz | Or build your LinuxMCE box | Aug 13 18:22 |
yuhong | Anyway, back to my original question | Aug 13 18:25 |
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yuhong | I also remember talking about Linux boot-time rootkits on IRC. | Aug 13 18:26 |
yuhong | It was in response to this article on BN. | Aug 13 18:27 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/23/vista-7-cannot-be-fixed/ | Aug 13 18:27 |
schestowitz | Keep our most intimate details off the internet < http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/lizhunt/6012187/Keep-our-most-intimate-details-off-the-internet.html > | Aug 13 18:27 |
schestowitz | yuhong: yes, but the trick was obvious to see | Aug 13 18:27 |
schestowitz | The flaws were still there, they just fixed them and them pretended it was never an issue to begin with | Aug 13 18:28 |
yuhong | I am posting more comments on this article right now. | Aug 13 18:31 |
yuhong | BTW, take a look at the links to the articles on XP's first patches for a flashback. | Aug 13 18:33 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: Kogan drops 10-inch Linux netbook price to $399 < http://www.techworld.com.au/article/314773/kogan_drops_10-inch_linux_netbook_price_399 > | Aug 13 18:35 |
schestowitz | Microsoft advertised XP as very secure, yuhong | Aug 13 18:36 |
schestowitz | Nokia swings both ways - Microsoft, Linux < http://www.merinews.com/article/nokia-swings-both-ways---microsoft-linux/15781519.shtml > Same ol, same ol. Since 2006/7 | Aug 13 18:37 |
yuhong | Yep. | Aug 13 18:38 |
yuhong | Unfortunately, back in 2001, /GS, /SAFESEH, and the secure string copy functions. and the other buffer overflow protection stuff that exists on today's MS compilers did not exist. | Aug 13 18:39 |
yuhong | And yes, I remember this case being on a top ten list. | Aug 13 18:41 |
cubezzz | so is Vista more secure than XP? | Aug 13 18:42 |
cubezzz | I didn't find XP to be very "secure" | Aug 13 18:43 |
yuhong | Certainly not. | Aug 13 18:43 |
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yuhong | Well, I have several articles where one of the new stuff I just mentioned prevented a security vulnerablity | Aug 13 18:43 |
yuhong | http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2004/05/23/139987.aspx | Aug 13 18:44 |
yuhong | http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2007/01/10/why-windows-vista-is-unaffected-by-the-vml-bug.aspx | Aug 13 18:45 |
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yuhong | If you want more, search MS's security blogs. | Aug 13 18:46 |
DaemonFC | http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/microsoft-windows-7-cable-television-and-the-so-called-playready-drm-scam/ | Aug 13 18:47 |
DaemonFC | this pisses me off | Aug 13 18:47 |
schestowitz | yuhong: I've replied to you. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/13/vista-7-rtm-was-vulnerable/comment-page-1/#comment-72105 | Aug 13 18:47 |
yuhong | Thanks. | Aug 13 18:47 |
cubezzz | I'm not sure about Neuros, but it looks interesting | Aug 13 18:48 |
cubezzz | most stuff seems to be on back-order | Aug 13 18:48 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: looks like a Vista ad | Aug 13 18:49 |
DaemonFC | what is? | Aug 13 18:49 |
schestowitz | "Possibly related posts: (automatically generated) | Aug 13 18:49 |
schestowitz | * The Windows 7 beta testing disaster | Aug 13 18:49 |
schestowitz | * Did Microsoft hire maker of nLite and vLite? | Aug 13 18:49 |
schestowitz | * Microsoft releases emergency patch for Internet Explorer ActiveX control | Aug 13 18:49 |
schestowitz | * Digital transition causing all kinds of grief for Windows Media Center users" | Aug 13 18:49 |
schestowitz | It's a Windows blog | Aug 13 18:49 |
DaemonFC | I write about Windows Media Center crippling cable TV channels | Aug 13 18:50 |
DaemonFC | and that's pro-Microsoft? | Aug 13 18:50 |
DaemonFC | you're bent up | Aug 13 18:50 |
schestowitz | http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/07/22/microsoft-releases-gpld-linux-drivers-nothing-has-changed/ "Make no mistake about it, Microsoft still hates the GPL, Steve Ballmer still would tell you that it is cancer, and the fact is that Microsoft released the code solely due to the fact that to link into the kernel, you have to use the GPL or a compatible license." | Aug 13 18:50 |
schestowitz | "GPL 1 / MicroNovellix 0" | Aug 13 18:51 |
DaemonFC | and that's true | Aug 13 18:51 |
schestowitz | OK, I find some opposite examples | Aug 13 18:51 |
schestowitz | I should add the RSS | Aug 13 18:51 |
DaemonFC | I got a kick of that | Aug 13 18:51 |
DaemonFC | What I want to know is why big media thinks that crippling an analog cable TV signal will work? | Aug 13 18:51 |
DaemonFC | like I can't just record it with something else | Aug 13 18:52 |
schestowitz | Best Buy “disappears” the Ubuntu box set http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/best-buy-disappears-the-ubuntu-box-set/ | Aug 13 18:52 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: your fault | Aug 13 18:52 |
schestowitz | You should avoid Vista/Vista7 | Aug 13 18:52 |
schestowitz | it's a DRM hell | Aug 13 18:52 |
schestowitz | LinuxMCE to the rescue | Aug 13 18:52 |
DaemonFC | well, Linux can't see the tuner | Aug 13 18:52 |
yuhong | DeamonFC: Indeed, he is not saying that blog is pro-Microsoft, he says that it is a Windows blog. | Aug 13 18:52 |
DaemonFC | I've mentioned this before | Aug 13 18:53 |
yuhong | schestowitz: Do you mean Vista/7 MCE? | Aug 13 18:53 |
DaemonFC | so I have no support for it on Linux or intentionally crippled support on Windows | Aug 13 18:53 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, I hear that pcHDTV is pretty good | Aug 13 18:53 |
DaemonFC | for whatever reason, VLC does not see the tuner's audio signal as a DirectSound device unless you're in XP | Aug 13 18:54 |
yuhong | Because that part of Windows indeed has a lot of DRM. | Aug 13 18:54 |
schestowitz | Nice Orwellian use of the word protect there | Aug 13 18:54 |
DaemonFC | no, because Ustream occasionally mistakes the tuner card for my webcam and transmits the audio signal | Aug 13 18:55 |
schestowitz | Microsoft.... who do you protect it FROM? | Aug 13 18:55 |
schestowitz | The customer, | Aug 13 18:55 |
DaemonFC | so it's there but VLC isn't recognizing it | Aug 13 18:55 |
yuhong | Reminds me of the original version of Trusted Computing. | Aug 13 18:55 |
DaemonFC | I'm trying to figure out what else can see a TV tuner signal | Aug 13 18:55 |
schestowitz | Apple's the same | Aug 13 18:56 |
schestowitz | That's why BSD and Linux need a kick in the pants and more market | Aug 13 18:56 |
schestowitz | Not Tivoised either | Aug 13 18:56 |
DaemonFC | apparently Media Player Classic can, I may try that | Aug 13 18:56 |
DaemonFC | the stupidity of encrypting an unencrypted input | Aug 13 18:57 |
DaemonFC | it's simply staggering | Aug 13 18:57 |
DaemonFC | they probably just figure most people won't ever know the difference | Aug 13 18:58 |
yuhong | On the matter of Tivoization, I was thinking about making BusyBox GPLv3 as a first step. | Aug 13 18:58 |
DaemonFC | hey, Media Player Classic works | Aug 13 18:59 |
DaemonFC | no Playready crap | Aug 13 18:59 |
DaemonFC | yay | Aug 13 18:59 |
yuhong | I am thinking of asking the BusyBox authors if they could ask for permission to use the Linux code inside the BusyBox under the GPLv3 or later. | Aug 13 19:01 |
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yuhong | Anyone else think this is a good idea? | Aug 13 19:03 |
yuhong | On the matter of Windows, I remember your nit-picking over "Windows malware" vs "computer malware". | Aug 13 19:05 |
yuhong | Yes, most malware is for Windows. But in theory, Windows, Mac, and Linux malware is all "computer malware". | Aug 13 19:06 |
DaemonFC | ask those Apple users how their free copy of iWork turned out for them | Aug 13 19:06 |
DaemonFC | there's malware that's not for Windows | Aug 13 19:06 |
MinceR | yuhong: they're rarely cross-platform :> | Aug 13 19:06 |
Will_ | true, but how often does non-Windows malware make the news? | Aug 13 19:06 |
DaemonFC | there's starting to be a Mac botnet problem | Aug 13 19:06 |
yuhong | Yep. | Aug 13 19:06 |
Will_ | It amazes me that most people (PC users) on the street adamantly believe that it is impossible for any computer to be practically immune to viruses | Aug 13 19:08 |
Xarver | linux :3 | Aug 13 19:08 |
Will_ | I've been called a liar for suggesting that there exists an OS that doesn't need Norton etc. | Aug 13 19:08 |
DaemonFC | it's just as possible to lay out a nasty surprise for a Linux user | Aug 13 19:09 |
cubezzz | lol | Aug 13 19:09 |
DaemonFC | in the form of a file system eating script in a DEB/RPM package | Aug 13 19:09 |
Will_ | DaemonFC : yes, it is possible, but not likely. | Aug 13 19:09 |
DaemonFC | it's been done | Aug 13 19:09 |
cubezzz | never ran Norton on Unix System V :) | Aug 13 19:09 |
DaemonFC | I watch out what I run on any OS | Aug 13 19:09 |
DaemonFC | if there's a standalone DEB/RPM, make sure you're not the first person to run it, yes? :D | Aug 13 19:10 |
DaemonFC | there you go, use other people as your antivirus | Aug 13 19:10 |
yuhong | Funny, isn't it. | Aug 13 19:11 |
Will_ | But considering that most people will be using vetted packages from repositories, there is a slim to none chance of encountering that. | Aug 13 19:11 |
yuhong | Of course. | Aug 13 19:11 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu Forums doesn't just lock the post and remove the link, they just delete the whole post to destroy the evidence | Aug 13 19:11 |
Will_ | about what? | Aug 13 19:11 |
yuhong | But here is the article I was talking about: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/19/msnbc-ms-manipulated-story/ | Aug 13 19:11 |
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DaemonFC | when someone posts a bad DEB package with a file system eating script or something | Aug 13 19:12 |
Will_ | DaemonFC: Still, you are describing a situtation that a user has a less that 0.001% chance of running into, which at worst only puts them in the same position that Windows users live in all the time grabbing random things from the Internet | Aug 13 19:13 |
DaemonFC | there have also been "tutorials" that would sneak in obfuscated Python code to rm -rf / | Aug 13 19:13 |
DaemonFC | things like that | Aug 13 19:13 |
cubezzz | don't use packages, compile from source | Aug 13 19:14 |
schestowitz | No, use repos | Aug 13 19:14 |
cubezzz | even more safe :) | Aug 13 19:14 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu mainly targets new users that will just blindly paste root user commands into the terminal | Aug 13 19:14 |
DaemonFC | so it's like prime hunting ground hehe | Aug 13 19:14 |
Will_ | Usually if I can't find it in a repo, I have to compile from source because I can't find it anyway else. | Aug 13 19:14 |
Will_ | But even then, we are talking very obscure job-specific software if I'm actually forced to compile from source these days. | Aug 13 19:16 |
schestowitz | The issues was changed here | Aug 13 19:16 |
schestowitz | The issue is not Windows users runnijng bad files | Aug 13 19:16 |
schestowitz | It's the Microsoftransiartion of the issue | Aug 13 19:16 |
schestowitz | *transformation | Aug 13 19:16 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, MPC supports dumping the channel I'm watching to Ogv, that's kind of neat (as well as most any format) | Aug 13 19:16 |
schestowitz | The issue is Windows getting hijack when loading a page or just doing nothing | Aug 13 19:17 |
schestowitz | See Conficker for example | Aug 13 19:17 |
schestowitz | You're moving goalposts (the Microsoft apologists) | Aug 13 19:17 |
schestowitz | brb | Aug 13 19:17 |
DaemonFC | Will_: That's a nuisance btw, usually they just won't compile it over a political disagreement | Aug 13 19:17 |
DaemonFC | Sauerbraten is a real good example | Aug 13 19:17 |
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Will_ | I still think MS might be responsible for a lot of the general fear people associate with computers. They make very flawed products that often require whole third-party industries to keep operational, and they constantly blame anyone but themselves (often the user) for any failures. | Aug 13 19:21 |
Will_ | Not to mention the whole thing is locked up tight so that no one can poke around under the hood. | Aug 13 19:22 |
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Will_ | No wonder the average person is afraid to mess around much with a computer. They're scared they might offend some dark spirit or something. | Aug 13 19:22 |
DaemonFC | I'm not interested in having any kind of DRM restrictions on any media I use, even one channel is an eyesore | Aug 13 19:23 |
schestowitz | New Novell video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLJZKuKMvw | Aug 13 19:24 |
Will_ | To me, DRM is a clear sign that the producer doesn't want my money. I'm happy to oblige in such cases. | Aug 13 19:24 |
DaemonFC | unfortunately it's a package deal | Aug 13 19:24 |
DaemonFC | I have to take AMC to get another 20 channels I do want | Aug 13 19:24 |
DaemonFC | even though they aren't doing anything bad | Aug 13 19:24 |
schestowitz | Use Miro | Aug 13 19:25 |
schestowitz | Dump Big Television | Aug 13 19:25 |
DaemonFC | tried that before | Aug 13 19:25 |
schestowitz | They are ancient-minded for the most part | Aug 13 19:25 |
cubezzz | well, if the only way I can get a something is by drm video then I'll get the drm video, then remove the drm | Aug 13 19:25 |
cubezzz | I did that with a tennis video a few times | Aug 13 19:25 |
DaemonFC | well, AMC doesn't come in DRM'd obviously, Windows Media Center DRMs it locally | Aug 13 19:26 |
DaemonFC | and then decrypts it to send to the monitor | Aug 13 19:26 |
cubezzz | schestowitz, UHF antenna here, no cable for me | Aug 13 19:26 |
DaemonFC | that takes an incredible amount of CPU time when I can record it with other programs or just sticking the coax cable into the back of a VCR anyway :P | Aug 13 19:26 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft probably figures that they can sign deals with all the other cable TV channels, run all the other media center software over til theirs is the only one you can use, and then people will have no alternatives to accepting the DRM restrictions when they want to record something | Aug 13 19:28 |
DaemonFC | obviously not all competing software is commercial for-profit though, and has no interest in imposing DRM | Aug 13 19:29 |
cubezzz | you should see what they say about US Cable TV on TVOntario :) | Aug 13 19:31 |
DaemonFC | then they proceed to carry all our programs for 90% of their scheduled programming | Aug 13 19:31 |
DaemonFC | silly Canadians | Aug 13 19:31 |
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Will_ | oh, btw, I saw on the log the other day that Sci-fi (or Syfy --I can't stand the new name) is now using a little Silverlie on they SGU website. Any guesses on how long before they drop it like NBC and the New York Times did before them? | Aug 13 19:32 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I looked at that | Aug 13 19:32 |
Xarver | Bleh | Aug 13 19:32 |
DaemonFC | they're using Flash for everything they can use Flash for | Aug 13 19:32 |
DaemonFC | they obviosuly can't use it to make their 3d ship tour though | Aug 13 19:33 |
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DaemonFC | Adobe's fault really, if they had those features nobody would even bother with Silverlight, it's quite clear that Sci Fi doesn't want to use Silverlight | Aug 13 19:33 |
MinceR | not really | Aug 13 19:33 |
MinceR | if they didn't want to use silverblight, they wouldn't | Aug 13 19:34 |
DaemonFC | if they wanted to use Silverlight, they could have done the entire site in it just as easily | Aug 13 19:34 |
MinceR | same with trash | Aug 13 19:34 |
DaemonFC | without paying any royalties to Adobe | Aug 13 19:34 |
MinceR | they could have even made a winblows application and make a page consisting of a single download link | Aug 13 19:34 |
DaemonFC | why do that? | Aug 13 19:35 |
DaemonFC | they can add that to a page that the rest of the site doesn't even depend on | Aug 13 19:35 |
DaemonFC | same result for Linux users | Aug 13 19:35 |
DaemonFC | they used to make Windows applications that you could download seperately though, this replaces those | Aug 13 19:36 |
MinceR | to make the page less usable, obviously | Aug 13 19:36 |
DaemonFC | they used to have a CD insert with their magazine that would have neat extras and behind the scenes stuff | Aug 13 19:36 |
MinceR | that's the whole point of the trash/silverblight/java exercise | Aug 13 19:36 |
DaemonFC | I have a stack of those actually | Aug 13 19:36 |
MinceR | and putting 345 layers of 2983479238x2309420394 transparent png-s | Aug 13 19:37 |
MinceR | and spinning the cpu in 25 infinite loops in javascript | Aug 13 19:37 |
DaemonFC | I look at it this way, every proprietary Microsoft web thing eventually tanks anyway | Aug 13 19:37 |
DaemonFC | all of a handful of sites use it then abandon it later | Aug 13 19:37 |
MinceR | if your website doesn't require a top-of-the-line supercomputer to scroll it at an acceptable speed then it isn't hip enough | Aug 13 19:38 |
DaemonFC | that doesn't need a top of the line computer | Aug 13 19:38 |
MinceR | and those who abandon it move on to the next fad | Aug 13 19:38 |
DaemonFC | my 5 year old laptop can scroll through it fine | Aug 13 19:38 |
MinceR | i have some nice stuff to read for you >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole | Aug 13 19:39 |
MinceR | might come in handy | Aug 13 19:39 |
DaemonFC | most people throw out their system and buy a new one every few years anyway | Aug 13 19:39 |
DaemonFC | if not more often | Aug 13 19:39 |
MinceR | people shouldn't have to do that in order to read some text and see some pictures | Aug 13 19:39 |
DaemonFC | they don't | Aug 13 19:39 |
DaemonFC | even a 10 year old computer running Windows 98 will browse through 99% of their site just fine | Aug 13 19:40 |
DaemonFC | that Silverlight thing is just a replacement for their old bonus CD that went out with the magazine | Aug 13 19:40 |
MinceR | i have serious doubts about that. | Aug 13 19:40 |
MinceR | i do have a 10 year old computer running win98 around, you know. | Aug 13 19:40 |
DaemonFC | the bonus CD needed Windows anyway, I don't see what the big deal it | Aug 13 19:40 |
DaemonFC | *is | Aug 13 19:41 |
MinceR | even starting the browser takes ages. | Aug 13 19:41 |
Will_ | @MinceR : do you let it connect to the internet? | Aug 13 19:41 |
MinceR | usually not | Aug 13 19:41 |
MinceR | it's falling apart already | Aug 13 19:41 |
DaemonFC | my old Windows 98 system has a 550 Mhz K6/2 and 384 megs of RAM | Aug 13 19:41 |
DaemonFC | still runs as well as can be expected | Aug 13 19:41 |
MinceR | the machine i'm talking about is slower than that | Aug 13 19:42 |
MinceR | don't remember the exact specs | Aug 13 19:42 |
Will_ | Why not slap a lightweight Linux distro on a computer that old? | Aug 13 19:42 |
DaemonFC | I eventually swapped it out for Windows 2000 cause 98 has trouble running a lot of NT software | Aug 13 19:42 |
schestowitz | I had WIndows 98 running on 32 mb of ram and 400mhz | Aug 13 19:42 |
schestowitz | It was SLLLOOOOW | Aug 13 19:42 |
schestowitz | Laptop from 1999 | Aug 13 19:43 |
schestowitz | That was my last Windows machine | Aug 13 19:43 |
DaemonFC | Windows 98 should really have a minimum of 64 megs | Aug 13 19:43 |
DaemonFC | if you put in more than 512 megs, it starts getting slower | Aug 13 19:43 |
schestowitz | It run nothing useful | Aug 13 19:43 |
schestowitz | Firefox would take half a minute to start, almost | Aug 13 19:43 |
schestowitz | Firefox 1.0 | Aug 13 19:43 |
DaemonFC | well not now of course, it doesn't have proper Unicode and 9x never supported all of Win32 | Aug 13 19:44 |
schestowitz | That was in 2004 just before Linux was put on everything... never looked back | Aug 13 19:44 |
DaemonFC | the entire concept of 9x was to have a subset of Win32 ported over from NT | Aug 13 19:44 |
DaemonFC | a lot of consumer software at the time still needed DOS or the Win16 API, and was too slow to run NT anyway | Aug 13 19:44 |
DaemonFC | that's where that whole 5 year misadventure came from | Aug 13 19:45 |
DaemonFC | err consumer hardware was too slow for NT that is | Aug 13 19:45 |
DaemonFC | NT was also much more strict about hardware access, you could put DirectX up to version 6 on it, but no hardware acceleration was possible, had it's own driver model too, real bitch to try to get NT 4 up and going | Aug 13 19:46 |
MinceR | Will_: the only use i had for it is driving a crappy noname scanner for which there's no linux driver | Aug 13 19:47 |
MinceR | the mustek driver brings in all-white pages instead | Aug 13 19:47 |
DaemonFC | one place I worked at still relied almost completely on NT 4 as of 2006 | Aug 13 19:47 |
MinceR | apart from that, i don't really have use for that machine | Aug 13 19:47 |
MinceR | i'm going to replace it and the scanner | Aug 13 19:47 |
DaemonFC | that was awful, and the machines had to be networked with XP systems in the main office | Aug 13 19:47 |
Will_ | good point Mince. | Aug 13 19:49 |
DaemonFC | in many ways, getting Linux to talk to your XP network is less excruciating than getting NT 4 to, businesses are notoriously cheap and piecemeal about hardware upgrades though | Aug 13 19:49 |
DaemonFC | you end up getting stuck with systems getting upgraded 25% every couple years and all kinds of versions of all kinds of software to deal with | Aug 13 19:50 |
DaemonFC | they put people who have no idea about the systems they're buying beyond what the Microsoft or Red Hat or Novell people told them | Aug 13 19:50 |
DaemonFC | that's how you end up with clusterfuck...errrrrr......interop, in reality it never works like the vendor tells you it will | Aug 13 19:52 |
DaemonFC | it's like buying a brand new car, being told all the systems have been checked out and double checked, and the first thing it does it break down | Aug 13 19:53 |
schestowitz | n00b -> "# Why can't Ubuntu alert me when I get a new e-mail?" http://www.examiner.com/x-18153-Knoxville-Technology-Examiner~y2009m8d12-The-Frustrations-of-Technology | Aug 13 19:53 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Don't go to examiner.com expecting to find anyone that knows anything | Aug 13 19:54 |
schestowitz | I know. | Aug 13 19:54 |
DaemonFC | they let anyone write columns there it seems | Aug 13 19:54 |
schestowitz | It's amusing. | Aug 13 19:54 |
schestowitz | Seattle-based BTW. | Aug 13 19:54 |
schestowitz | They spread pro-Microsoft FUD, too | Aug 13 19:54 |
schestowitz | Here's the Microsoft trolls thta Katherine Noyes from ECT is ciitng: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-08-13-006-35-NW-BZ-HW-0000 | Aug 13 19:56 |
schestowitz | hairyfeet | Aug 13 19:56 |
schestowitz | yeah, listen to hairfeet | Aug 13 19:56 |
DaemonFC | this Media Player Classic is quite amusing | Aug 13 19:56 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Munchkins everywhere | Aug 13 19:57 |
schestowitz | SLashdot, ETC/... | Aug 13 19:57 |
schestowitz | Grey responds to "hairyfeet": http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-08-13-006-35-NW-BZ-HW-0001 | Aug 13 19:57 |
DaemonFC | a GPL-licensed media player that looks like the old Microsoft ActiveMovie, using FFMPEG as a back end, compiled with both GCC 4.4 and Visual Studio 2008 | Aug 13 19:57 |
schestowitz | EVen Linux Today gets flooded by them | Aug 13 19:57 |
DaemonFC | I'd say that the high returns, if any, were caused by the hardware configuration | Aug 13 19:59 |
DaemonFC | the Linux systems all got less RAM and a much slower CPU and video chipset | Aug 13 19:59 |
schestowitz | What was the name of that companies that sued Microsoft for Office? | Aug 13 19:59 |
schestowitz | For many years, not i4i | Aug 13 19:59 |
DaemonFC | i4i | Aug 13 19:59 |
schestowitz | No | Aug 13 19:59 |
schestowitz | Prior to it | Aug 13 19:59 |
DaemonFC | some Canadian based patent troll | Aug 13 19:59 |
DaemonFC | oh? | Aug 13 20:00 |
schestowitz | I'd have to look it up | Aug 13 20:00 |
schestowitz | Hard without the name though | Aug 13 20:00 |
schestowitz | Never mind | Aug 13 20:00 |
DaemonFC | who hasn't sued them? I know Corel did at one point over WordPerfect | Aug 13 20:00 |
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DaemonFC | that ended with an MS/Corel partnership | Aug 13 20:00 |
DaemonFC | in the settlement, Microsoft dumped a whole bunch of money on Corel in exchange for dumping the Linux ports of all of Corel's software | Aug 13 20:01 |
DaemonFC | Corel is big media/tons of DRM now | Aug 13 20:02 |
schestowitz | ASP .NET fail. http://www.cbronline.com/errors/default.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/news/display.aspx | Aug 13 20:02 |
schestowitz | Their site is SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOO dodgy | Aug 13 20:02 |
schestowitz | Like a quarter of the time I visit it there's a DB or server issue. Hilarious. | Aug 13 20:03 |
DaemonFC | their product activator is a spyware system service and their Blu Ray player software expires all your license keys if you don't pay Corel money for a renewal "subscription" | Aug 13 20:03 |
DaemonFC | I think Microsoft has inadvertantly ensured that DVD remains the standard disc format | Aug 13 20:03 |
DaemonFC | since Blu Ray is not properly supported on any version of Windows by default | Aug 13 20:04 |
schestowitz | Red Hat celebrates its 10-year IPO anniversary http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/Red_Hat_celebrates_its_10year_IPO_anniversary-nid-60282.html | Aug 13 20:05 |
schestowitz | I'm really enjoying the torrent of good news for Linux these days | Aug 13 20:05 |
schestowitz | Adoptions in Europe rises a lot as well | Aug 13 20:06 |
schestowitz | It's harder to notice in the US, UK and AU | Aug 13 20:06 |
proteus | http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nm/20090813/tc_nm/us_microsoft_3 Court slaps ban on some Microsoft Word sales - another SW patent fight - bad for all of us | Aug 13 20:06 |
schestowitz | proteus: same suit, no? | Aug 13 20:06 |
schestowitz | Reuters late to the party? | Aug 13 20:07 |
proteus | same as? | Aug 13 20:07 |
schestowitz | I saw a report from them about it 2 days ago | Aug 13 20:07 |
schestowitz | I cited it in BN | Aug 13 20:07 |
schestowitz | proteus: it's from Tuesday or so | Aug 13 20:07 |
schestowitz | Groklaw has the pdfs | Aug 13 20:07 |
proteus | sorry then. I was at OS World in SF yesterday and did not read much news :-) | Aug 13 20:07 |
schestowitz | IDG... | Aug 13 20:07 |
schestowitz | I heard it was kind of dull.. | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | ZDNet | Aug 13 20:08 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I've analyzed the frame rate of a Playready crippled channel vs a non-crippled channel | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | As in, no major announcements | Aug 13 20:08 |
proteus | yup, just a tiny shadow | Aug 13 20:08 |
DaemonFC | 18 frames per second crippled, 30 frames per second normal | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | IDG got a bad rap for their events | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | MacWorld too | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | I think MacWorld is over too | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | Not sure.. | Aug 13 20:08 |
DaemonFC | so it not only infects you with DRM, it degrades your video playback by dropping frames | Aug 13 20:08 |
DaemonFC | cause it can't encrypt/decrypt in real time | Aug 13 20:08 |
schestowitz | I never had DRM encounters | Aug 13 20:09 |
schestowitz | I read about it though | Aug 13 20:09 |
schestowitz | Doesn't sound nice, I'll tell you dat !! | Aug 13 20:09 |
proteus | OSCON was better, just a month ago in San Jose, 60 miles from SF. Not sure why they did not make it few months appart | Aug 13 20:09 |
schestowitz | Compression is for transmission, not obfuscation, DaemonFC | Aug 13 20:09 |
schestowitz | Waste of CPU/batts | Aug 13 20:10 |
DaemonFC | yes, it quadruples your CPU use | Aug 13 20:10 |
DaemonFC | and makes your feed drop over half the frames | Aug 13 20:10 |
schestowitz | proteus: did you go to the OSCON parties | Aug 13 20:10 |
DaemonFC | :P | Aug 13 20:10 |
schestowitz | The FLOSS Weekly guys liked it | Aug 13 20:10 |
DaemonFC | in many cases | Aug 13 20:10 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz, that's why you can't disable the pause buffer | Aug 13 20:11 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft puts the live TV feed on a 4 second delay so it doesn't slow down even worse from the PlayReady crap | Aug 13 20:11 |
schestowitz | "JavaScript and PHP Use Growing in Open Source, Says Black Duck ... - Earthtimes (press release)" -> "Forbidden - You don't have permission to access /articles/show/javascript-and-php-use-growing,924803.shtml on this server." | Aug 13 20:11 |
proteus | No, no parties :-( | Aug 13 20:11 |
schestowitz | Black Duck-proprietarisers | Aug 13 20:12 |
schestowitz | The FSF has a conference now | Aug 13 20:12 |
schestowitz | Since last year (maybe early this year actually) | Aug 13 20:13 |
DaemonFC | MPC also uses only about 1-2% of my CPU to play live TV | Aug 13 20:13 |
DaemonFC | Windows Media Center uses about 5% for a normal channel and about 20% for a "PlayReady" channel | Aug 13 20:13 |
schestowitz | Among the possible attractions: RMS dancing to Soulja Boys with his laptop on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7C6r6fG4k40 | Aug 13 20:13 |
DaemonFC | oh no | Aug 13 20:14 |
DaemonFC | we replaced RMS's Ogg Vorbis with Folgers Crystals, lets see if he notices | Aug 13 20:14 |
DaemonFC | :P | Aug 13 20:14 |
schestowitz | More 'cloud' *Sigh*..... "Appko Announces Launch of Appko CRM at Open Source World/Cloud World" http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-12-2009/0005076424&EDATE= | Aug 13 20:15 |
schestowitz | Is there any CRM s/w that's really properly FOSS? | Aug 13 20:15 |
DaemonFC | wasn't there a Sugar CRM thing | Aug 13 20:16 |
DaemonFC | that was open source, right? | Aug 13 20:16 |
schestowitz | It's dual | Aug 13 20:16 |
schestowitz | They are mostly doing a marketing plot | Aug 13 20:16 |
DaemonFC | well, if it's licensed at your option, that doesn't hurt anything I suppose | Aug 13 20:16 |
schestowitz | "Open"... "source"... 'cloud"... "SaaS"...."iiiiiiino-va-tive" | Aug 13 20:16 |
proteus | Talked to Appko at OSCON. Interesting but they never bothered to answer any emails :-( | Aug 13 20:16 |
schestowitz | I never heard of them before | Aug 13 20:17 |
schestowitz | And I've watched FOSS closely for years | Aug 13 20:17 |
proteus | they are a startup from SJ, CA I believe | Aug 13 20:17 |
schestowitz | This usually means they either are entrants or fakers | Aug 13 20:17 |
schestowitz | Ah | Aug 13 20:17 |
schestowitz | Startup | Aug 13 20:17 |
schestowitz | OK | Aug 13 20:17 |
proteus | they sounded reasonable with good business plan. We'll see | Aug 13 20:18 |
DaemonFC | "Microsoft PlayReady Helps Expand Digital Content Economy With New Adoption for Mobile..." | Aug 13 20:19 |
schestowitz | Not surprisingly, Disinformation Week joins then anti-GPL party. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/08/why_the_gpl_mat.html;jsessionid=K2ZLOEKEPG04PQE1GHOSKH4ATMY32JVN | Aug 13 20:19 |
DaemonFC | their marketing for it | Aug 13 20:19 |
DaemonFC | notice how benign the press release sounds? | Aug 13 20:19 |
schestowitz | PlayDready | Aug 13 20:19 |
schestowitz | I try to play and and I dread, and sometimes play it and I'm dead | Aug 13 20:20 |
schestowitz | Last months news, in Disinformation Lastweek: Rackspace Opens Up Cloud APIs, Bindings < http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/server_virtualization/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219200286 > | Aug 13 20:21 |
schestowitz | *month's | Aug 13 20:21 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayReady | Aug 13 20:22 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 13 20:22 |
DaemonFC | look at the last line before the contents menu | Aug 13 20:22 |
DaemonFC | :) | Aug 13 20:22 |
DaemonFC | how long do you figure that will last? | Aug 13 20:23 |
DaemonFC | 5 seconds, cool | Aug 13 20:23 |
*twitter (n=willhill@97-113-230-249.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 13 20:24 | |
DaemonFC | damned revert bots | Aug 13 20:24 |
schestowitz | twitter: "hairyfeet" from /. is now trolling LinuxToday too | Aug 13 20:25 |
schestowitz | ECT puts up there quotes from 'it' | Aug 13 20:25 |
interesting | Aug 13 20:25 | |
schestowitz | So just something conspicuous. It's a familiar pattern and /. often unifies them (Darryl, Wong, etc. | Aug 13 20:25 |
I've busted that one for being a sock puppet | Aug 13 20:26 | |
see the troll zoo for a link to a misstep hairyfeet made. he forgot to change accounts and posted the same thing twice under two names. | Aug 13 20:27 | |
*Lns has quit ("Φ") | Aug 13 20:27 | |
I hope "hairyfeet" is male | Aug 13 20:27 | |
schestowitz | "RIP LinuxWorld/Open Source World" < http://www.sdtimes.com/blog/post/2009/08/12/RIP-LinuxworldOpen-Source-World.aspx > <ASP | Aug 13 20:28 |
Will_ | twitter : or a hobbit :) | Aug 13 20:29 |
ok | Aug 13 20:30 | |
schestowitz | "Today, I understood the call. In the desperate struggle to keep this show alive, its organizers were clinging to any and all ideas. And as it turns out, they went with all of those ideas at once. Today was the first day of the Open Source World / Next Generation Data Center / Cloud somethingorother / Dice Job fair, expo and conference in San Francisco." | Aug 13 20:30 |
not many people have money for travel these days -> The expo floor was a tiny hovel of non-decision-makers, job-seekers and 70-year-old conference tourists. | Aug 13 20:33 | |
DaemonFC | I've had a major caffeine withdrawl headache all day, it took a few days to catch up with me | Aug 13 20:34 |
DaemonFC | I think the worst is over | Aug 13 20:34 |
proteus | there was free beer though | Aug 13 20:34 |
I wonder if SDTimes is another Gates Foundation "investment" | Aug 13 20:36 | |
The article is a bad hatchet job. | Aug 13 20:36 | |
What's wrong with an inclusive conference? Why does OSCon get a pass on inclusiveness when LinuxWorld gets the shaft? | Aug 13 20:37 | |
All kinds of conferences have had down attendance and most are filled with job seekers. | Aug 13 20:39 | |
proteus | article is more or less accurate. That trade show is dead. LinuxWorld should merge with OSCON instead of NGDC/cloud stuff | Aug 13 20:39 |
*Will_ has quit ("Page closed") | Aug 13 20:39 | |
Define "dead" | Aug 13 20:39 | |
better yet, tell me what makes a conference a success. | Aug 13 20:39 | |
you might also answer the contradictions I've asked. | Aug 13 20:40 | |
proteus | Linux World was bad name choice in the first place. It's not about Linux but OSS at the end.FreeBSD guys had the most impressive demo with KDE on the expo floor | Aug 13 20:40 |
Why is a 70 year old at OScon considered a "decision maker" but a "tourist" at Linux World. | Aug 13 20:41 | |
proteus | Dead as dead rock. No movers, no shakers, no new products, no ideas | Aug 13 20:41 |
proteus | Retirees are not decission makers. Sorry. | Aug 13 20:41 |
were you there? | Aug 13 20:41 | |
proteus | yes | Aug 13 20:41 |
for who? | Aug 13 20:41 | |
proteus | myself :-) | Aug 13 20:42 |
and who do you work for? | Aug 13 20:42 | |
proteus | I attend "inux World" since it's first one in SJ, CA. | Aug 13 20:42 |
*Tallken (n=Tallken@93.102.80.103.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 13 20:42 | |
and who do you work for? | Aug 13 20:42 | |
proteus | why that matters? | Aug 13 20:42 |
I don't know if it matters until you tell me. | Aug 13 20:43 | |
proteus | come to http://www.linuxpicnic.org/twiki/bin/view/Picnix18/ and we can talk | Aug 13 20:43 |
no thanks. | Aug 13 20:44 | |
*** twitter ignores evasive and negative user | Aug 13 20:44 | |
DaemonFC | http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/08/13/13greenwire-exxon-mobil-pleads-guilty-to-killing-migratory-90137.html | Aug 13 20:45 |
DaemonFC | Exxon Mobil Pleads Guilty to Killing Migratory Birds | Aug 13 20:45 |
proteus | prteus ingnores DHCP users | Aug 13 20:45 |
trmanco | wtf | Aug 13 20:45 |
DaemonFC | "Under the plea agreement reached yesterday with DOJ, the company will pay $600,000, as well as make changes to prevent related deaths in the future. Exxon told the court it has already spent $2.5 million on the effort." | Aug 13 20:46 |
DaemonFC | $600,000, what a pittance | Aug 13 20:46 |
DaemonFC | one of the biggest oil companies in the world kills 85 different kinds of endangered birds and gets that small a fine? | Aug 13 20:46 |
ThistleWeb | twitter think's he's the geshtapo | Aug 13 20:49 |
ThistleWeb | anyone who dont answer his questions in a way he wants is deemed the enemy | Aug 13 20:49 |
ThistleWeb | its not really helpful to the cause | Aug 13 20:49 |
DaemonFC | twitter is also a number of sockpuppets, infesting a number of sites | Aug 13 20:50 |
DaemonFC | including Slashdot | Aug 13 20:50 |
DaemonFC | the stuff he writes is usually bad enough that the Firehose takes care of it | Aug 13 20:50 |
ThistleWeb | being ignore by twitter is a kinda badge saying you're "normal" | Aug 13 20:50 |
ThistleWeb | he seems to have the people skills of RMS | Aug 13 20:51 |
DaemonFC | he doesn't actually ignore anyone | Aug 13 20:52 |
proteus | interesting | Aug 13 20:52 |
DaemonFC | if you provoke him, he can suddenly "see" you again | Aug 13 20:52 |
ThistleWeb | yeah I worked that out after he mistakenly got involved in a convo with me, after claiming to have ignored me | Aug 13 20:52 |
DaemonFC | same | Aug 13 20:52 |
ThistleWeb | until I pointed out that I thought I was being ignored | Aug 13 20:53 |
ThistleWeb | BN has enough peeps come here to attack it, it needs to welcome friends when they come, not bark at them, accuse them of being trolls etc | Aug 13 20:54 |
ThistleWeb | all that does is make it an unwelcome channel | Aug 13 20:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @mashable Wolfram Alpha Computes Cheating Girlfriend [Parody Video] http://ff.im/-6zfZG | Aug 13 20:54 | |
ThistleWeb | and play into the hands of the detractors | Aug 13 20:54 |
ThistleWeb | but what can ya do | Aug 13 20:56 |
ThistleWeb | so proteus welcome to the land of the sane, twitter has deemed you to be ignored | Aug 13 20:57 |
ThistleWeb | it's like an entry ticket, of sorts | Aug 13 20:58 |
proteus | Ah, thanks guys to recognize me as one of yours :-) | Aug 13 20:59 |
ThistleWeb | twitter is a kinda quick draw, anyone is only a sentence away from being labelled a troll | Aug 13 20:59 |
ThistleWeb | the more you disagree with him, or point out flaws in his arguments, the more his finger nears the trigger | Aug 13 21:00 |
ThistleWeb | in normal circles, he'd be the kid in the corner you cant evict, but everybody just pretends don't exist | Aug 13 21:00 |
proteus | what's this rubbish about? http://www.serverwatch.com/trends/article.php/3834076/Ubuntu-Debian-Partner-to-Employ-Communist-Era-Model.htm | Aug 13 21:01 |
ThistleWeb | hoping that sooner or later you glance at his corner and see he's given up and left | Aug 13 21:01 |
proteus | :-) | Aug 13 21:02 |
ThistleWeb | anyhoo, back at the point | Aug 13 21:02 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: you seem to be very much into provoking people. | Aug 13 21:03 |
MinceR | 215908 < DaemonFC> if you provoke him, he can suddenly "see" you again | Aug 13 21:03 |
ThistleWeb | it's not hard to provoke twitter, mention any choice that includes stuff he dont agree with and he's off | Aug 13 21:06 |
ThistleWeb | freedom of choice seems to be fine, as long as all the options are what he approves of | Aug 13 21:07 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Big Boys Are Upgrading to GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/ak2AC | Aug 13 21:07 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Army of GNU/Linux Servers at Google Expands to Desks http://ping.fm/eKCCv | Aug 13 21:08 | |
DaemonFC | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/13/1310228/Wikipedia-Approaches-Its-Limits | Aug 13 21:10 |
schestowitz | twitter: what's the matter with you? | Aug 13 21:11 |
schestowitz | You're ignoring the good people | Aug 13 21:11 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Windows Viruses and Cost Lead Ethiopian Government to Looking at Free Software http://ping.fm/djGUt | Aug 13 21:11 | |
ThistleWeb | schestowitz: he's not, he only says he is | Aug 13 21:11 |
schestowitz | Funny RMS analogy | Aug 13 21:11 |
schestowitz | I'm catching up BTW | Aug 13 21:11 |
ThistleWeb | then he forgets who he's suposed to have ignored | Aug 13 21:11 |
schestowitz | Re : http://www.serverwatch.com/trends/article.php/3834076/Ubuntu-Debian-Partner-to-Employ-Communist-Era-Model.htm | Aug 13 21:12 |
schestowitz | He's a Linux guy | Aug 13 21:12 |
schestowitz | But he's feeling playful with provocative analogies | Aug 13 21:12 |
schestowitz | Linux.. communism... -> annoyed people give attention to Paul | Aug 13 21:13 |
ThistleWeb | yeah I read that to the bottom, the conclusion is that linux has the blend right | Aug 13 21:13 |
ThistleWeb | that it'll be harder and harder to beat | Aug 13 21:13 |
schestowitz | The headline is what most people read | Aug 13 21:13 |
schestowitz | Like the "Is Linux irrelevant?" thing | Aug 13 21:13 |
schestowitz | Very familiar rcipe | Aug 13 21:13 |
schestowitz | I prefer just infoative headlines that summarise | Aug 13 21:13 |
schestowitz | So you can read the headline/summary without open questions | Aug 13 21:14 |
schestowitz | Then the body substatiates the synopsis | Aug 13 21:14 |
ThistleWeb | I did a "linux will never be ready for the desktop" post int he linux reality forums ages ago......which was all about linux not being malware compatible etc | Aug 13 21:14 |
schestowitz | And if one remains a skeptic, there's the bunch of comments | Aug 13 21:14 |
schestowitz | It's also easier to find old items this way | Aug 13 21:14 |
schestowitz | By headlines | Aug 13 21:14 |
DaemonFC | Per Capita GDP for Ethiopia: $324 | Aug 13 21:14 |
schestowitz | Not a good measure | Aug 13 21:15 |
schestowitz | They pay less for food for example | Aug 13 21:15 |
DaemonFC | USA Per Capita GDP: $46,859 | Aug 13 21:15 |
schestowitz | Warped perception of welth | Aug 13 21:15 |
schestowitz | *wealth | Aug 13 21:15 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: wow. wow. go go usa | Aug 13 21:15 |
schestowitz | It's an improper comparison | Aug 13 21:15 |
ThistleWeb | the only reason the west has so much spare money to buy stuff, is that a lot of the stuff is made in cheap countries | Aug 13 21:16 |
DaemonFC | not entirely | Aug 13 21:16 |
schestowitz | Shall we compare Pollux to Earth too? | Aug 13 21:16 |
DaemonFC | in a backwards economy, people live largely on subsistence farming or hunting | Aug 13 21:16 |
ThistleWeb | if all their goods were made at US wages, the prices would be vastly more | Aug 13 21:16 |
DaemonFC | that's why their cost of living is low | Aug 13 21:16 |
ThistleWeb | meaning their wages wouldn't buy anywhere near the same | Aug 13 21:16 |
schestowitz | Farming and hunting is good | Aug 13 21:16 |
DaemonFC | not really | Aug 13 21:16 |
schestowitz | 'tleast they don't chase mortgages | Aug 13 21:17 |
ThistleWeb | all the luxuries like dvds, games etc are all out of reach | Aug 13 21:17 |
DaemonFC | it just means they're weak and exploitable by modern societies | Aug 13 21:17 |
schestowitz | I wonder where the suicide rate is higher, Ethiopia or the US | Aug 13 21:17 |
DaemonFC | the British took advantage of this at one point | Aug 13 21:17 |
DaemonFC | for a long time | Aug 13 21:17 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 13 21:17 | |
schestowitz | brb | Aug 13 21:17 |
ThistleWeb | plenty of countries see owning a house as a strange concept | Aug 13 21:17 |
DaemonFC | til they couldn't threaten anyone anymore | Aug 13 21:17 |
ThistleWeb | the UK it's the norm to work for | Aug 13 21:18 |
DaemonFC | the British stopped expanding when their victims would no longer cooperate | Aug 13 21:18 |
ThistleWeb | every empire does | Aug 13 21:18 |
DaemonFC | even with vastly superior firepower, it didn't help them | Aug 13 21:18 |
ThistleWeb | they use the tools of their day to enforce their empire | Aug 13 21:18 |
DaemonFC | the British went wrong by trying to occupy what they conquered | Aug 13 21:18 |
schestowitz | Ethiopia: OLPC donates 5,000 laptops worth 940,000 USD http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article27679 | Aug 13 21:18 |
DaemonFC | made the people there resent them more | Aug 13 21:18 |
ThistleWeb | occupying is only one form of control | Aug 13 21:19 |
DaemonFC | exactly | Aug 13 21:19 |
ThistleWeb | the US do the same with ecconomics | Aug 13 21:19 |
DaemonFC | but if you give them the illusion of autonomy, it's far easier to control them | Aug 13 21:19 |
DaemonFC | the British overlooked that | Aug 13 21:19 |
ThistleWeb | nah, they used the tools of their time | Aug 13 21:19 |
ThistleWeb | just as the US are now | Aug 13 21:20 |
ThistleWeb | eveny empire does | Aug 13 21:20 |
ThistleWeb | just as every empire will fall | Aug 13 21:20 |
DaemonFC | the British are still pathetically trying to hold Northern Ireland | Aug 13 21:20 |
DaemonFC | that won't work for them in the long run anyway | Aug 13 21:20 |
ThistleWeb | thats complicated | Aug 13 21:20 |
ThistleWeb | it's split, plenty want to remain part of the UK, while plenty dont | Aug 13 21:21 |
DaemonFC | I think the RIRA has the right idea | Aug 13 21:21 |
DaemonFC | blow enough of them up and they may get tired of it | Aug 13 21:21 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] VIA Takes Linux Kernel Space Seriously http://ping.fm/seH0O | Aug 13 21:21 | |
DaemonFC | beats placating them | Aug 13 21:21 |
ThistleWeb | plenty irish want to be part of ireland, joinng witht he republic, penty want a separate state | Aug 13 21:21 |
ThistleWeb | so killing innocents is the thing to do huh? | Aug 13 21:22 |
DaemonFC | but most of them agree as far as getting rid of the British influence I take it | Aug 13 21:22 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop GNU/Linux Leaves Vista 7 in the Dust http://ping.fm/CJgWK | Aug 13 21:22 | |
ThistleWeb | so you'll be rooting for the guys doing the same to US troops | Aug 13 21:22 |
ThistleWeb | kill enough US troops and they;ll give up | Aug 13 21:22 |
DaemonFC | no, I'd never have sent in any soldiers | Aug 13 21:22 |
DaemonFC | I would have indiscrimionately bombed every inch | Aug 13 21:23 |
DaemonFC | jsut be glad I don't get that call | Aug 13 21:23 |
ThistleWeb | so mass murder | Aug 13 21:23 |
DaemonFC | *indiscriminately | Aug 13 21:23 |
ThistleWeb | thats it | Aug 13 21:23 |
ThistleWeb | raise an area to the ground | Aug 13 21:23 |
ThistleWeb | that'll win them over | Aug 13 21:23 |
DaemonFC | who is trying to win anyone over? | Aug 13 21:23 |
ThistleWeb | just as well the "bad guys" dont decide to use that, as a "pre-emptive" move on an agressive US | Aug 13 21:24 |
DaemonFC | obvious that this will never happen | Aug 13 21:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista is a huge opportunity for GNU/Linux... to sink the price of Windows even further down... from $5 for Windows XP. | Aug 13 21:24 | |
ThistleWeb | I'm trying to understand why you seem to side with the terrorist approach | Aug 13 21:24 |
DaemonFC | well, the Muslims don't co-exist with anyone else peacefully | Aug 13 21:24 |
ThistleWeb | as a long term solution | Aug 13 21:24 |
DaemonFC | they've shown that for thousands of years | Aug 13 21:24 |
ThistleWeb | in some countries they dont | Aug 13 21:24 |
ThistleWeb | in many they do | Aug 13 21:25 |
DaemonFC | I'd rather just leave it alone | Aug 13 21:25 |
DaemonFC | they never will | Aug 13 21:25 |
ThistleWeb | besides, "Musilim" is a wide group of people | Aug 13 21:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft IE 8 shines in Web browser security test :... http://ff.im/6zmql | Aug 13 21:25 | |
ThistleWeb | you could argue the same with any religion | Aug 13 21:25 |
DaemonFC | not really | Aug 13 21:25 |
DaemonFC | they're somewhat diverse, but they even want to wipe out each other | Aug 13 21:25 |
DaemonFC | so what does that say? | Aug 13 21:25 |
MinceR | religion is prone to that | Aug 13 21:26 |
ThistleWeb | take the lunatics of the deep south who claim HIV is god's punishment for allowing gays, or preists who have a pencheant for lil boys as the norm | Aug 13 21:26 |
MinceR | or perhaps rather people who use religion to control others | Aug 13 21:26 |
ThistleWeb | they are of course not the norm for catholics | Aug 13 21:26 |
DaemonFC | yeah, they don't actually do anything themselves though | Aug 13 21:27 |
DaemonFC | they know that the majority of our society won't stand for it | Aug 13 21:27 |
DaemonFC | so they just talk a lot | Aug 13 21:27 |
DaemonFC | mainly | Aug 13 21:27 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Games Just Keep Coming to GNU/Linux: Aquaria, Hive Rise http://ping.fm/rfbLX http://ping.fm/8HGSQ | Aug 13 21:27 | |
DaemonFC | in Ethiopia, you could kill a gay man and the rest of the country would laugh about it with you I'm sure | Aug 13 21:28 |
DaemonFC | here they get put away for life | Aug 13 21:28 |
MinceR | or the majority of our society doesn't dare do it | Aug 13 21:28 |
DaemonFC | so I'd far rather be here | Aug 13 21:28 |
ThistleWeb | thats the game, pick out extreme examples to portray the norm | Aug 13 21:28 |
DaemonFC | these backwards third world countries are usually where they're at because of a medieval repressive religion | Aug 13 21:29 |
ThistleWeb | this is the point where I bow out and laugh | Aug 13 21:29 |
DaemonFC | they'll gladly blame Western society for all their problems though | Aug 13 21:29 |
DaemonFC | the middle east is basically locked in the dark ages | Aug 13 21:30 |
DaemonFC | the Christian dark ages stopped scientific progress for hundreds of years | Aug 13 21:30 |
DaemonFC | it will tak us til the 26th century or so to progress to where we should be now | Aug 13 21:30 |
ThistleWeb | the west IS to blame for a lot of it | Aug 13 21:30 |
ThistleWeb | not all of it, but a LOT of it | Aug 13 21:31 |
DaemonFC | scapegoating | Aug 13 21:31 |
ThistleWeb | policies in the west are defined by "western interests" which means "exploitable assets" | Aug 13 21:31 |
DaemonFC | if they'd throw down their backwards religious regimes and join the 21st century, the rest of hte world would welcome them | Aug 13 21:31 |
DaemonFC | so? | Aug 13 21:31 |
DaemonFC | they'd do the same thing to us if the fortunes were reversed | Aug 13 21:32 |
DaemonFC | what's the difference? | Aug 13 21:32 |
DaemonFC | they're holding themselves back | Aug 13 21:32 |
ThistleWeb | so every policy of a rich western nation acting in some poor country "for it's own good" has contributed to this | Aug 13 21:32 |
DaemonFC | so? | Aug 13 21:32 |
DaemonFC | the rest of the world has "poor me" syndrome | Aug 13 21:33 |
DaemonFC | isntead of bettering themselves | Aug 13 21:33 |
ThistleWeb | see a new country and decide "we own this" rather than "lets see who the natives are and if we can trade with them" | Aug 13 21:33 |
ThistleWeb | the rules are stacked against them | Aug 13 21:33 |
ThistleWeb | the rules made by the west | Aug 13 21:33 |
DaemonFC | yeah, every society has done that at some point throughout history | Aug 13 21:33 |
ThistleWeb | for the west | Aug 13 21:33 |
DaemonFC | it's human nature | Aug 13 21:33 |
ThistleWeb | even with the best will in the world, they're in an unwinnable position | Aug 13 21:33 |
DaemonFC | no, there have been asian expansionistic efforts | Aug 13 21:34 |
ThistleWeb | that's not counting the warlords etc holding stuff back | Aug 13 21:34 |
DaemonFC | which were crushed at some point | Aug 13 21:34 |
ThistleWeb | many regimes funded by the west too | Aug 13 21:34 |
DaemonFC | including the mid 20th century | Aug 13 21:34 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNOME 2.28 Beta is Here http://ping.fm/xWhpt | Aug 13 21:34 | |
ThistleWeb | wars funded by the west | Aug 13 21:34 |
DaemonFC | wrong | Aug 13 21:34 |
DaemonFC | the Chinese civil war allowed the Japanese to move in with minimal resistance | Aug 13 21:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle Strengthens GNU/Linux-oriented Virtualisation http://ping.fm/mcQg5 | Aug 13 21:35 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SystemRescueCd 1.2.3 and Parted Magic 4.4 Released http://ping.fm/zHIYY http://ping.fm/7Ebnr | Aug 13 21:35 | |
DaemonFC | had it been just those two going at it, the Japanese would have taken over all of China and then moved on | Aug 13 21:35 |
ThistleWeb | I understand where you're coming from, having a US centric education, and taught that the US is the source of all good | Aug 13 21:36 |
DaemonFC | there have been asian military campaigns to "take over the world" | Aug 13 21:36 |
ThistleWeb | unfortunately, the rest of the world does not recognise that US, they have seen, and continue to see the real face of the US | Aug 13 21:36 |
DaemonFC | if the Japanese had gotten their hands on those resources, they would have had the ability to spread further | Aug 13 21:37 |
DaemonFC | every society wants to expand | Aug 13 21:37 |
DaemonFC | and every society will, given the resources | Aug 13 21:37 |
DaemonFC | what has kept this in check is other societies with the resources to stop them because they see a threat to themselves | Aug 13 21:38 |
ThistleWeb | I give up, enjoy your vision | Aug 13 21:38 |
DaemonFC | if you can't be strong, keep sucking up to whoever can protect you | Aug 13 21:39 |
DaemonFC | and pray you stay on their good graces | Aug 13 21:39 |
DaemonFC | :) | Aug 13 21:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RealDVD Product Uses Linux to Fight Copyright Madness http://ping.fm/5pClQ | Aug 13 21:39 | |
ThistleWeb | in other words, if you cant stand up to the bully, become his bitch | Aug 13 21:39 |
DaemonFC | it's what always happens | Aug 13 21:40 |
DaemonFC | why don't you just strengthen yourself and fend for yourself | Aug 13 21:40 |
DaemonFC | rather than depend on handouts? | Aug 13 21:40 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Aug 13 21:40 |
ThistleWeb | you should be a republican | Aug 13 21:40 |
DaemonFC | weaker countries are like the weaklings that go side with one bully to protect them from the other | Aug 13 21:41 |
ThistleWeb | they need more recruits like you | Aug 13 21:41 |
_goblin | schestowitz: Are you aware of this? http://www.techtree.com/India/News/MS_Word_Banned_in_the_US/551-105520-580.html | Aug 13 21:41 |
DaemonFC | the only choices they give themselves are which bully to surrender their lunch money to | Aug 13 21:41 |
DaemonFC | it's fairly pathetic | Aug 13 21:41 |
ThistleWeb | I'd prefer to work towards a system where there is no bully | Aug 13 21:42 |
DaemonFC | not really an option | Aug 13 21:43 |
ThistleWeb | rather than one where a bully is a bad thing if you're not it, or on the receiving end of it, but a good thing if you are it; a world without double standards | Aug 13 21:43 |
ThistleWeb | not for those with no imagination, of course not | Aug 13 21:44 |
DaemonFC | as long as one or two societies better themselves beyond the technological limits of all others | Aug 13 21:44 |
DaemonFC | the rest are suck ups | Aug 13 21:44 |
DaemonFC | that's just how it works | Aug 13 21:44 |
ThistleWeb | the US paid taxes to the brits a while back, that was just "how it worked" | Aug 13 21:44 |
ThistleWeb | nothing changed? | Aug 13 21:44 |
DaemonFC | for example, North Korea can't get a missile much past their border, much less with a bomb strapped to it | Aug 13 21:44 |
ThistleWeb | the monarchy in the UK had absolute rule because that was "just how things worked" | Aug 13 21:44 |
DaemonFC | we could scorch every inch of their country with minimal effort | Aug 13 21:45 |
ThistleWeb | yet we now have an ellected govt | Aug 13 21:45 |
DaemonFC | they're no threat | Aug 13 21:45 |
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving.") | Aug 13 21:45 | |
ThistleWeb | just because it's the status quo today, does not make it right, nor does it mean it will be the status quo tomorrow | Aug 13 21:45 |
DaemonFC | now you jsut pay to have moats cleaned for your elected government | Aug 13 21:45 |
DaemonFC | right? | Aug 13 21:45 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 13 21:45 |
ThistleWeb | the point, in case you missed it, was that things can change, even those which seem unchangable | Aug 13 21:46 |
DaemonFC | the British did some damned disgusting things | Aug 13 21:46 |
DaemonFC | they never apologized | Aug 13 21:46 |
DaemonFC | they would do it again | Aug 13 21:46 |
ThistleWeb | of course | Aug 13 21:46 |
DaemonFC | xactly what changed other than their ability to make war? | Aug 13 21:46 |
ThistleWeb | dunno about that so much | Aug 13 21:46 |
DaemonFC | *exactly | Aug 13 21:47 |
ThistleWeb | some they would | Aug 13 21:47 |
ThistleWeb | some they wouldnt | Aug 13 21:47 |
schestowitz | _goblin: yes, I posted about it in BN (twice even!) | Aug 13 21:47 |
DaemonFC | if the onyl factor that stopped them is their resources collapsed, it stands to reason that if they got the resources to go after their objectives again, they probably would | Aug 13 21:48 |
ThistleWeb | in many ways your right | Aug 13 21:48 |
DaemonFC | it's not an option right now so they pretend to have this superiority complex like the rest of the world is still lucky they don't "choose" to come kick their asses | Aug 13 21:48 |
ThistleWeb | every empire over extends its resources | Aug 13 21:48 |
DaemonFC | it's quite comical | Aug 13 21:48 |
ThistleWeb | when the US goes around kicking sand in peeps faces it makes more and more enemies, who it will have to spend more and more money to protect itself from | Aug 13 21:49 |
DaemonFC | ThistleWeb: Communication limits and over-diversification of a culture bring an empire down | Aug 13 21:49 |
ThistleWeb | at some point that system collapses | Aug 13 21:49 |
DaemonFC | we've solved the communication limits | Aug 13 21:49 |
_goblin | schestowitz: doh.....Just been on about 1hour...catching up.... | Aug 13 21:49 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: indeed. http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2009/04/13/chalmers-johnson/ | Aug 13 21:49 |
DaemonFC | after a culture becomes too diverse, the people share nothing in common | Aug 13 21:50 |
DaemonFC | and the empire collapses | Aug 13 21:50 |
DaemonFC | it's partially what brought down the Ottoman Empire | Aug 13 21:50 |
schestowitz | Chalmers Johnson does many comparisons between the US empire and the Roman empire | Aug 13 21:50 |
ThistleWeb | they only have notuhing in common when the community leaders concentrate on dviding them, rather than looking at what they have in common, and building a soiciety together | Aug 13 21:50 |
DaemonFC | the communication technology limits were the other factor | Aug 13 21:50 |
ThistleWeb | when some peeps have no stake in the society they live in, they have no reason to take part | Aug 13 21:51 |
schestowitz | Caesar Bush led to the destruction of his empire | Aug 13 21:51 |
schestowitz | But he made a bundle in the process with his oil buddies in TX | Aug 13 21:51 |
ThistleWeb | the US empire has been crumbling for a while before Bush, he just accelerated it | Aug 13 21:51 |
schestowitz | I bet Osama would have voted for Bush | Aug 13 21:51 |
DaemonFC | when the majority of people feel they have no stake in the society they live in | Aug 13 21:51 |
schestowitz | He shot the US in the foot | Aug 13 21:52 |
DaemonFC | that's the fallacy of diversification | Aug 13 21:52 |
DaemonFC | damned liberals ignore it | Aug 13 21:52 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, before that too | Aug 13 21:52 |
schestowitz | Amassing debt | Aug 13 21:52 |
ThistleWeb | I suppose a healthy model of society is where communities are made up of all whites | Aug 13 21:52 |
schestowitz | With a trillion dollars per year spent on 'defense' it's a necessity | Aug 13 21:52 |
ThistleWeb | or all blacks | Aug 13 21:52 |
ThistleWeb | never the twain shall meet | Aug 13 21:52 |
schestowitz | Building over 1,000 bases in other people's homes | Aug 13 21:52 |
DaemonFC | we've had worse problems before and recovered | Aug 13 21:52 |
ThistleWeb | that was tried | Aug 13 21:52 |
ThistleWeb | it failed | Aug 13 21:53 |
ThistleWeb | not to mention how wrong it was | Aug 13 21:53 |
schestowitz | brb | Aug 13 21:53 |
DaemonFC | if their government leased it to us, we have a right to be there | Aug 13 21:53 |
DaemonFC | that is part of the United States until the agreement expires | Aug 13 21:53 |
ThistleWeb | what if their govt was made up of US funded coup members? | Aug 13 21:53 |
ThistleWeb | like MS staging a coup at a company | Aug 13 21:54 |
ThistleWeb | placing their peeps on the board | Aug 13 21:54 |
DaemonFC | that's always the excuse anyway | Aug 13 21:54 |
ThistleWeb | to make decisions | Aug 13 21:54 |
ThistleWeb | thats valid ont he same lines | Aug 13 21:54 |
ThistleWeb | the board decided it was fine | Aug 13 21:54 |
ThistleWeb | even if the board is a lackey of some outside entity | Aug 13 21:54 |
DaemonFC | then it's your fault for electing them | Aug 13 21:54 |
ThistleWeb | a coup is not ellected | Aug 13 21:55 |
DaemonFC | if your shareholders elect Microsoft lackeys to your board | Aug 13 21:55 |
ThistleWeb | a coup is overthrowing the previous regime | Aug 13 21:55 |
DaemonFC | and they make an agreement with Microsoft | Aug 13 21:55 |
DaemonFC | what did you expect? | Aug 13 21:55 |
ThistleWeb | not unlike yahoo | Aug 13 21:55 |
DaemonFC | if you don't like the agreement, change your government and rescind the deal | Aug 13 21:56 |
ThistleWeb | which goes back to the "the govt said we could be there, we have every right to be there" | Aug 13 21:56 |
ThistleWeb | the new govt says no | Aug 13 21:56 |
ThistleWeb | so it means no | Aug 13 21:56 |
ThistleWeb | the deal has changed | Aug 13 21:56 |
ThistleWeb | so you don't have the right to be there any longer | Aug 13 21:56 |
DaemonFC | until our agreement runs out | Aug 13 21:56 |
DaemonFC | so say we have a 50 year lease | Aug 13 21:57 |
DaemonFC | when it's over, you rescind it, we leave | Aug 13 21:57 |
ThistleWeb | it's THEIR country, not the US's | Aug 13 21:57 |
ThistleWeb | they can do whatever the hell they like | Aug 13 21:57 |
DaemonFC | wrong, that country has contractual obligations | Aug 13 21:57 |
ThistleWeb | dude, the US does not own the planet | Aug 13 21:57 |
DaemonFC | the British should have been thrown out of Hong Kong after the communists took over | Aug 13 21:57 |
DaemonFC | right? | Aug 13 21:57 |
ThistleWeb | as much as it may be convient for you to think so | Aug 13 21:57 |
DaemonFC | their agreement should not have been honored | Aug 13 21:58 |
ThistleWeb | apparently the hong kong peeps prefered brit rule to chinese, but in the end that didnt matter | Aug 13 21:58 |
DaemonFC | unless you come up with a new constitution and a brand new government | Aug 13 21:58 |
DaemonFC | your government is bound by its treaties | Aug 13 21:58 |
ThistleWeb | yeah treaties lol | Aug 13 21:59 |
ThistleWeb | another joke | Aug 13 21:59 |
DaemonFC | just electing a new president didn't automatically rescind everything Bush did | Aug 13 21:59 |
DaemonFC | there's a lot of bad shit we have to honor because he agreed to it | Aug 13 21:59 |
DaemonFC | because it's the same government | Aug 13 22:00 |
MinceR | and not much changed anyway | Aug 13 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | did you expect much to change? | Aug 13 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | really | Aug 13 22:00 |
MinceR | not really | Aug 13 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | the US govt is controlled by the corporations | Aug 13 22:00 |
MinceR | i think what i expected has happened | Aug 13 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | they win, regardless of who the people put in the hot seat | Aug 13 22:00 |
MinceR | (less focus on warmongering) | Aug 13 22:00 |
DaemonFC | a lot of it was signed into law and can't easily be repealed | Aug 13 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | it's business as susual | Aug 13 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | yeah, because warmongering is not high on the list of things US peeps like | Aug 13 22:01 |
ThistleWeb | bad PR to keep drawing attention to it | Aug 13 22:01 |
DaemonFC | some do | Aug 13 22:01 |
ThistleWeb | yeah, you've shown us that | Aug 13 22:01 |
DaemonFC | some are being strung along into the Deather crap | Aug 13 22:02 |
DaemonFC | they think healthcare reform = killing Grandma | Aug 13 22:02 |
DaemonFC | cause the Republicans told them that | Aug 13 22:02 |
ThistleWeb | the groupd shouting against the healthcare reform are those who have a stake in making money from healthcare pricing | Aug 13 22:03 |
ThistleWeb | private companies | Aug 13 22:03 |
ThistleWeb | protesting under proxies, as all "good" corps do these days | Aug 13 22:03 |
DaemonFC | no, they string along thousands of crazies | Aug 13 22:03 |
DaemonFC | who don't know any better | Aug 13 22:03 |
ThistleWeb | using any lies they can to sell their story as true | Aug 13 22:04 |
DaemonFC | and 1% of the population gets the whole thing killed | Aug 13 22:04 |
ThistleWeb | in the UK we have "truth in advertising" laws, but I'm not sure they apply to political ads | Aug 13 22:04 |
DaemonFC | or corporate-incited mobs | Aug 13 22:05 |
DaemonFC | yay! | Aug 13 22:05 |
ThistleWeb | they may do, but I think those are classed as opinion | Aug 13 22:05 |
DaemonFC | all they have to do is bend the truth | Aug 13 22:05 |
DaemonFC | end of life counseling becomes "Nazi death squad" | Aug 13 22:05 |
DaemonFC | lol | Aug 13 22:06 |
trmanco | http://www.h-online.com/security/Microsoft-2-year-response-to-critical-0-day-hole--/news/113994 | Aug 13 22:06 |
ThistleWeb | bending the truth is what corporate marketing is too | Aug 13 22:06 |
ThistleWeb | but several have had their wings clipped for claiming something wrong, or unproven | Aug 13 22:06 |
DaemonFC | I love when Splogs copy my blog postings | Aug 13 22:09 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Proof That Microsoft Doesn't Give a Blip About Security http://ping.fm/ozctw | Aug 13 22:15 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sony Tries Openness in Linux-based eBook Readers and eBooks http://ping.fm/yaLcr | Aug 13 22:21 | |
ThistleWeb | Sony have been dipping their toes on open stuff before, at least parts of the company have. | Aug 13 22:22 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] China's Internet Censorship Regime Defeated, Almost http://ping.fm/3960s | Aug 13 22:22 | |
ThistleWeb | their music arm have been using drupal for a while now for artists sites | Aug 13 22:22 |
ThistleWeb | they also employ the dev behind JQuery | Aug 13 22:22 |
ThistleWeb | it may only be a small part of the company, but it's a start | Aug 13 22:23 |
ThistleWeb | hopefully it'll be successful for them to use to try and persuade other parts to look at open | Aug 13 22:23 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Eats Its Own Poison (Let is Have 'Fun') http://ping.fm/hyi3h | Aug 13 22:27 | |
schestowitz | Sony... of Rootkit Fame | Aug 13 22:27 |
schestowitz | :-) | Aug 13 22:27 |
schestowitz | OpenRotkit | Aug 13 22:27 |
ThistleWeb | yeah Sony have a dodgy history | Aug 13 22:28 |
schestowitz | Or RoTKitSource | Aug 13 22:28 |
schestowitz | Popular naming schemes for 'open source' projects | Aug 13 22:28 |
ThistleWeb | they have dipped a toe in | Aug 13 22:28 |
ThistleWeb | give them that | Aug 13 22:28 |
schestowitz | You can download the rootkit source and play with it | Aug 13 22:28 |
schestowitz | Create your own derivs and stufff !! | Aug 13 22:28 |
ThistleWeb | like any large company, it's far too big to be all cordinated | Aug 13 22:29 |
ThistleWeb | some parts do dodgy things, some step outside the natural order | Aug 13 22:29 |
schestowitz | Sony is not as big as it used to be :-) | Aug 13 22:29 |
ThistleWeb | I know | Aug 13 22:29 |
ThistleWeb | like I said, the only parts of Sony which have played with open source is the peeps behind making artists sites | Aug 13 22:30 |
ThistleWeb | the can also run linux easily apparently | Aug 13 22:30 |
ThistleWeb | drupal has been VERY well accepted in those departments, where they previously would have had to do a LOT of custom work for each artist | Aug 13 22:31 |
ThistleWeb | as well as fix all the bugs etc themselves | Aug 13 22:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft "PlayReady" is Not Ready for the Desktop http://ping.fm/m76DT | Aug 13 22:31 | |
ThistleWeb | and anyone using jquery benefits from sony's money | Aug 13 22:31 |
ThistleWeb | when the department reviews come up, those who have embraced stuff like Drupal will shine, thereby drawing more attention and willingness for other departments to explore it | Aug 13 22:33 |
ThistleWeb | any dept that's not making it's share of the profits is a candidate to be closed down | Aug 13 22:35 |
ThistleWeb | even worse if it's making a loss | Aug 13 22:36 |
ThistleWeb | just ask MS | Aug 13 22:36 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Aug 13 22:36 |
schestowitz | Sony competes with Microsoft over who can lose more in consoles | Aug 13 22:37 |
schestowitz | So far they are both 'winning' | Aug 13 22:38 |
schestowitz | I.e. losing billiobs | Aug 13 22:38 |
MinceR | :D | Aug 13 22:38 |
DaemonFC | the console is always sold at a loss of at least $100 | Aug 13 22:39 |
DaemonFC | that's just from piecing together the console using a cost estimate based on individual components | Aug 13 22:39 |
DaemonFC | they figure they'll make it up when they sell you a few games and some add on content | Aug 13 22:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Twitter Killed by Windows Zombies Again http://ping.fm/jVRjQ Microsoft Windows Puppeteer Caught http://ping.fm/ZInTu | Aug 13 22:40 | |
DaemonFC | That's also what makes the original XBOX such an attractive homebrew Linux PC | Aug 13 22:40 |
DaemonFC | you can rig that up with a $30 used XBOX and $20 worth of parts | Aug 13 22:40 |
MinceR | and give billy and steve the finger :> | Aug 13 22:42 |
MinceR | too bad xboxes are unreliable crap. | Aug 13 22:42 |
DaemonFC | I hacked an XBOX up to run Xebian Linux and XBOX Media Center Dashboard | Aug 13 22:42 |
DaemonFC | the latter uses FFMPEG to play back almost any kind of media | Aug 13 22:42 |
MinceR | should have hacked it up to run Xebian XNU/Xinux instead. :> | Aug 13 22:42 |
ThistleWeb | I thought about buying a cheapo second hand xbox for a myth tv front end | Aug 13 22:42 |
ThistleWeb | not a 360 | Aug 13 22:43 |
DaemonFC | it's possible to solder in another 64 megs of RAM | Aug 13 22:43 |
ThistleWeb | but from what I remember, xbox's sound like jet engines | Aug 13 22:43 |
DaemonFC | my XBOX has the full 128 MB supported by the board | Aug 13 22:43 |
DaemonFC | and a 250 gig hard disk | Aug 13 22:43 |
DaemonFC | it's also possible to install Windows XP on it | Aug 13 22:43 |
DaemonFC | if you really wanted to | Aug 13 22:44 |
DaemonFC | but you're not going to do that without the memory upgrade | Aug 13 22:44 |
_goblin | how many red lights of death would you get if you tried it? | Aug 13 22:44 |
DaemonFC | original had the yellow ring when there was something wrong with it | Aug 13 22:44 |
DaemonFC | :) | Aug 13 22:44 |
_goblin | has MS actually made any money yet on the console? | Aug 13 22:45 |
DaemonFC | there have been a couple quarters where they did very well | Aug 13 22:45 |
DaemonFC | but overall, no | Aug 13 22:45 |
DaemonFC | Halo 3 was the only thing that saved Christmas for them | Aug 13 22:45 |
DaemonFC | lol | Aug 13 22:45 |
_goblin | oh dear. | Aug 13 22:45 |
ThistleWeb | the 360 seemed to do well in the short time frame where they beat the ps3 to market | Aug 13 22:45 |
_goblin | followed by the Zune new year surprise... | Aug 13 22:46 |
DaemonFC | took me like 6 hours to beat Halo 3 on legendary | Aug 13 22:46 |
DaemonFC | the campaign isn't as long as Halo 2 or Halo: Combat Evolved | Aug 13 22:46 |
DaemonFC | the XBOX Live maps are the only reason to even have that game, otherwise jsut rent it | Aug 13 22:47 |
DaemonFC | I was also disappointed at the limited shotgun ammo in the game | Aug 13 22:47 |
DaemonFC | I tend to use the shotgun more than anything on first person shooters | Aug 13 22:47 |
ThistleWeb | I can't imagine a shotgun controller would be very good for racing games | Aug 13 22:48 |
ThistleWeb | unless it's set int he deep south where shooting strangers is part of the deal | Aug 13 22:48 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Aug 13 22:48 |
DaemonFC | Doom 3's gravity gun in the Resurrection of Evil expansion pack was satisfying | Aug 13 22:48 |
DaemonFC | I especially enjoyed grabbing the imp fireballs and throwing them back at them | Aug 13 22:49 |
DaemonFC | every game with advanced physics always has to have a gravity gun | Aug 13 22:49 |
DaemonFC | it's like a rule or something | Aug 13 22:50 |
ThistleWeb | or a lack of imagination | Aug 13 22:51 |
DaemonFC | physics are a big reason to have a PS3 or and XBOX 360, they have the processing power for ragdoll physics before the model's AI is shut off | Aug 13 22:51 |
DaemonFC | most PCs don't | Aug 13 22:51 |
DaemonFC | most games jsut have ragdoll physics after you kill something | Aug 13 22:51 |
DaemonFC | because the AI thread uses too much processing power to have that before you kill them | Aug 13 22:51 |
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DaemonFC | unfortunately, there's no open source video drivers that support physics acceleration, to my knowledge | Aug 13 22:55 |
DaemonFC | so FGLRX will probably be necessary to run Doom 4 even if the RadeonHD driver is otherwise complete | Aug 13 22:55 |
DaemonFC | it was really only a matter of time before someone recognized that the GPU can also handle a physics API | Aug 13 22:56 |
DaemonFC | http://xbmc.org/ | Aug 13 23:01 |
DaemonFC | there's the XBOX Media Center, says it also works on Linux, Windows, and Mac now as a standalone application | Aug 13 23:01 |
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schestowitz | Great interview... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2zMa3unSN8&feature=related | Aug 13 23:22 |
schestowitz | Hey, jono | Aug 13 23:23 |
jono | hi schestowitz | Aug 13 23:23 |
jono | hows things? | Aug 13 23:23 |
schestowitz | Liked your appearance in more recent episodes of FLOSS Weekly. Will you come back? | Aug 13 23:23 |
jono | schestowitz, thanks! | Aug 13 23:23 |
schestowitz | You made them jealous | Aug 13 23:24 |
jono | schestowitz, sure, I will be back soon, just been traveling a lot | Aug 13 23:24 |
schestowitz | Randall and Leo | Aug 13 23:24 |
jono | back next week :) | Aug 13 23:24 |
jono | made them jealius? | Aug 13 23:24 |
schestowitz | JPython? | Aug 13 23:24 |
schestowitz | Iron Python | Aug 13 23:24 |
schestowitz | Oops | Aug 13 23:24 |
jono | jealous about what? | Aug 13 23:24 |
schestowitz | IronPython IIRC | Aug 13 23:24 |
schestowitz | jono: was joking about something they said in your absence. | Aug 13 23:25 |
jono | oh right :) | Aug 13 23:25 |
jono | hehe | Aug 13 23:25 |
jono | so hows life here? | Aug 13 23:25 |
schestowitz | You know better than them what's happening | Aug 13 23:25 |
schestowitz | They use Mac AFAIK | Aug 13 23:25 |
schestowitz | *Macs | Aug 13 23:25 |
jono | yep | Aug 13 23:25 |
schestowitz | jono: it's OK, nothing abrasive | Aug 13 23:25 |
jono | I am just sat at Open Source World | Aug 13 23:26 |
jono | catching up on a few mails :) | Aug 13 23:26 |
schestowitz | Cool. How's the event? | Aug 13 23:26 |
schestowitz | Some critics out there say it, well.. sucks | Aug 13 23:26 |
schestowitz | But it's next-door for you.... | Aug 13 23:26 |
schestowitz | Handy and Diaz wrote negative things aboout it | Aug 13 23:27 |
schestowitz | [might remember the names wrongly..] | Aug 13 23:27 |
jono | well, it is what it is | Aug 13 23:27 |
schestowitz | :-) | Aug 13 23:27 |
jono | I don't expect a huge amount out of it - it is a business conference with some community elements | Aug 13 23:27 |
schestowitz | So no comment then | Aug 13 23:27 |
jono | as opposed to a community conference with some business elements | Aug 13 23:27 |
jono | for the business crowd, they seem to find value here | Aug 13 23:28 |
schestowitz | I saw press releases | Aug 13 23:28 |
jono | which is cool | Aug 13 23:28 |
schestowitz | Mostly the whole Fog Computing stuff | Aug 13 23:28 |
MinceR | :D | Aug 13 23:28 |
jono | it is not my preference of event, but I am more of a community guy | Aug 13 23:28 |
schestowitz | "Come to our cloud, savour our vapour" | Aug 13 23:28 |
jono | schestowitz, heh, yeah, lots of cloud here | Aug 13 23:28 |
MinceR | Vapor Computing | Aug 13 23:28 |
jono | schestowitz, well, don't let buzzwords cloud (no pun intended) your judgement of a possibly useful technology | Aug 13 23:28 |
jono | the buzzwords are meaningless but some of the tech is pretty cool | Aug 13 23:29 |
schestowitz | MinceR: vapour is when it's devious too, like Azure | Aug 13 23:29 |
MinceR | :) | Aug 13 23:29 |
schestowitz | jono: people are being fooled | Aug 13 23:29 |
schestowitz | And RMS was right when he spoke to the Grauniad [IIRC] | Aug 13 23:29 |
schestowitz | It's marketing hype | Aug 13 23:29 |
schestowitz | It's just SaaS renamed | Aug 13 23:29 |
schestowitz | Pictures and windmills and all | Aug 13 23:29 |
ThistleWeb | open saas | Aug 13 23:30 |
jono | well...whatever | Aug 13 23:30 |
schestowitz | "Larry Ellison - What The Hell Is Cloud Computing?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FacYAI6DY0 | Aug 13 23:30 |
jono | I don't really care TBH :) | Aug 13 23:30 |
jono | each to their own | Aug 13 23:30 |
schestowitz | fewa brought it up BTW | Aug 13 23:30 |
Ziggyfish | good morning all | Aug 13 23:30 |
schestowitz | Hey, Ziggyfish | Aug 13 23:30 |
schestowitz | Thanks for the link to the appeal | Aug 13 23:30 |
Ziggyfish | np | Aug 13 23:31 |
Ziggyfish | If you could somehow clobber RealNetworks, Adobe and Microsoft to say, 'Can you please write software that doesn't have that many exploits, or if exploits are identified, have some mechanism for closing them more quickly' – then that would really help | Aug 13 23:33 |
Ziggyfish | we already do it's called Linux | Aug 13 23:33 |
Ziggyfish | or open source | Aug 13 23:33 |
MinceR | adobe isn't feeling it :/ | Aug 13 23:33 |
DaemonFC | I'm waiting for Cloud 2.0 | Aug 13 23:38 |
DaemonFC | never be an early adopter I say :P | Aug 13 23:38 |
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schestowitz | Ziggyfish: or Free software :-D | Aug 13 23:38 |
MinceR | web 3.0? | Aug 13 23:42 |
MinceR | or web 2.1? | Aug 13 23:42 |
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Ziggyfish | or just Web ;) | Aug 13 23:43 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, I may have found suitable media center software | Aug 13 23:43 |
MinceR | or Web 2010? :> | Aug 13 23:43 |
*DaemonFC slaps MinceR with Visual Web 2010 Express Edition | Aug 13 23:44 | |
*MinceR dodges | Aug 13 23:45 | |
oiaohm | Visual Web 2010 ok why. It still a pain when it comes to muli browser support. | Aug 13 23:46 |
MinceR | there's no such thing as "multi browser support" in Visual Web. :> | Aug 13 23:46 |
DaemonFC | sure there is | Aug 13 23:46 |
DaemonFC | IE and Firefox | Aug 13 23:46 |
ThistleWeb | IE6 and IE7 | Aug 13 23:47 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 | Aug 13 23:47 |
oiaohm | Mobile phone support DaemonFC | Aug 13 23:47 |
DaemonFC | Pocket Internet Explorer | Aug 13 23:47 |
oiaohm | That a lot of market uses these days DaemonFC | Aug 13 23:47 |
oiaohm | Pocket opera | Aug 13 23:48 |
oiaohm | Is more common than Pocket internet Explorer. | Aug 13 23:48 |
DaemonFC | maybe | Aug 13 23:48 |
DaemonFC | Safari probably beats both of them | Aug 13 23:48 |
oiaohm | Mosty because Pocket opera is uses a lot of nokias. | Aug 13 23:49 |
oiaohm | That is still the most dominate smart devices out there. | Aug 13 23:49 |
DaemonFC | Is that an Internet Explorer in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me? | Aug 13 23:49 |
DaemonFC | :P | Aug 13 23:49 |
oiaohm | Basically MS still missed the required support. | Aug 13 23:50 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Disney to film Diary of Anne Frank http://notnews.today.com/?p=596 | Aug 13 23:50 | |
oiaohm | Maybe Visual Web 2012 they might get it. | Aug 13 23:50 |
DaemonFC | jesus, how long does mysql-essential take to install? | Aug 13 23:50 |
oiaohm | On what DaemonFC | Aug 13 23:50 |
oiaohm | Windows you will be waiting. | Aug 13 23:50 |
DaemonFC | noticed | Aug 13 23:51 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaPortal | Aug 13 23:51 |
DaemonFC | trying to install this | Aug 13 23:51 |
DaemonFC | it has so many dependencies it's not even funny | Aug 13 23:51 |
oiaohm | Its almost faster to install a Linux distribution with mysql essentials than installing windows mysql. | Aug 13 23:51 |
oiaohm | Yes insane. | Aug 13 23:51 |
MinceR | and it's definitely better. | Aug 13 23:51 |
DaemonFC | I should have told it to use SQL Server Express | Aug 13 23:52 |
DaemonFC | but then I'd probably be waiting as long for that | Aug 13 23:52 |
oiaohm | Not really. | Aug 13 23:52 |
DaemonFC | oh? | Aug 13 23:52 |
oiaohm | SQL Server Express has the bad habit from time to time stuffing database. | Aug 13 23:52 |
oiaohm | Yes you would have got installed sooner but you will pay in stablity. | Aug 13 23:53 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, 2005 or 2008? | Aug 13 23:53 |
oiaohm | Either. | Aug 13 23:53 |
DaemonFC | do they both eat the database? | Aug 13 23:53 |
DaemonFC | crap | Aug 13 23:53 |
oiaohm | Yep. | Aug 13 23:53 |
oiaohm | The full paid for version does not. | Aug 13 23:54 |
oiaohm | Just the express versions. | Aug 13 23:54 |
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oiaohm | Something to do with when MS added limiting code they screwed up. | Aug 13 23:54 |
DaemonFC | probably so a major corporation can't throw some major heavy shit at the freeware version | Aug 13 23:54 |
oiaohm | Light version of sql server going nuts is the most common cause of SBS exchange bitting the big one. | Aug 13 23:55 |
DaemonFC | it's probably to drive people to ASP.NET | Aug 13 23:56 |
DaemonFC | now that I think about it | Aug 13 23:56 |
oiaohm | Ie don't install the express version of SQL Server on SBS unless you want many pissed off people. | Aug 13 23:57 |
DaemonFC | this is why I've always tried to avoid programs that depend on this stuff | Aug 13 23:59 |
oiaohm | postgresql installs faster on windows than mysql | Aug 13 23:59 |
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