IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 14th, 2009

oiaohmJust not enough applications support itAug 14 00:00
DaemonFCmysql is a dead elephanyAug 14 00:00
DaemonFC*elephantAug 14 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] shit going down for #scientology https://twitter.com/xenijardin family, nurse, security, journalists ...Aug 14 00:00
oiaohmmysql is fine on Linux Solarias.... Basically everything bar windows DaemonFCAug 14 00:00
oiaohmOnce its installed mysql will work perfectly.Aug 14 00:01
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DaemonFCschestowitz, reminds me of that Family Guy flashbackAug 14 00:02
DaemonFCwhere Peter is up in the attic with Anne Frank's familyAug 14 00:03
DaemonFCeating potato chipsAug 14 00:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] venture philanthropy is the only way to survive http://www.someoneoncetoldme.com/photos/06012009.jpgAug 14 00:03
DaemonFChorde everything and make everyone else pay $500 for a license seems to make one richerAug 14 00:04
DaemonFC:PAug 14 00:04
oiaohmBig issue with mysql on windows is that it installs all the support tools.Aug 14 00:05
DaemonFCoh wow, I think it installedAug 14 00:05
oiaohmEven that most of the time you don't need like clustering.... and the list goes on.Aug 14 00:05
Balrog_DaemonFC: hoard *Aug 14 00:05
DaemonFCplehAug 14 00:05
DaemonFCwhateverAug 14 00:05
oiaohmJust allocate 30 to 40 mins when ever you need to install mysql on windows that way you can normally be happy.Aug 14 00:06
Balrog_now what about software that /requires/ MSSQL *express* ?Aug 14 00:07
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oiaohmPray to god it stays working Balrog_ or select something else.Aug 14 00:09
Balrog_if it breaks it's not my fault :)Aug 14 00:09
Balrog_is express really that bad?Aug 14 00:09
Xarverget Linux :DAug 14 00:09
oiaohmYes it is Balrog_Aug 14 00:09
Balrog_I would but this software isn't available ... and I'm not the one who wants itAug 14 00:09
oiaohmFor anything a business is depending on you either use full ms sql or some other free database first.Aug 14 00:10
oiaohmexpress is only good enough for development testing.Aug 14 00:10
oiaohmand I do mean only good enough.Aug 14 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Does Microsoft Treat Vendors and Customers Like ‘Thieves’? http://ping.fm/dpzsdAug 14 00:11
oiaohmIts really rare to find a bit of software that is mssql only too.   Most have mysql postgresql or orcale(that in cheap persons term = enterprise db)Aug 14 00:13
Diablo-D3http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/08/13/1431209/AMDs-Phenom-II-965-34GHz-140-Watts-245?from=rssAug 14 00:14
Diablo-D3I came.Aug 14 00:14
DaemonFCwhy?Aug 14 00:17
DaemonFCit's not as fast as an i7Aug 14 00:17
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Diablo-D3you say that like that even means anythingAug 14 00:18
Diablo-D3no one cares how fast the fastest cpu isAug 14 00:18
Diablo-D3they only care about performance per watt and performance per dollarAug 14 00:18
Diablo-D3intel lost that war a long long time agoAug 14 00:18
DaemonFCno, AMD's processors are not all that greatAug 14 00:19
DaemonFCthey beat Intel for a couple years, several years agoAug 14 00:20
oiaohmProblem is i7 performance is slowly becoming less important.Aug 14 00:20
DaemonFCand they still have fanboisAug 14 00:20
oiaohmAs more applications send there heavy work loads to video card.Aug 14 00:20
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oiaohmPower effectiveness and reasonable performance in cpu is all you need with application with loade sent to video cardAug 14 00:21
Diablo-D3oiaohm: you know what the problem is there, though?Aug 14 00:21
Diablo-D3we have external pci-e boxes with x16 slots....Aug 14 00:21
Diablo-D3but I can't buy one that has like 16 slots and a heavy duty psuAug 14 00:21
oiaohmI custom build Diablo-D3 Including case at times.Aug 14 00:23
Diablo-D3you're missing the pointAug 14 00:23
oiaohmYes it gets insane having a full PS to feed video cards.Aug 14 00:24
Diablo-D3you're limited to 4 cards per machine using really expensive mobosAug 14 00:24
oiaohm?Aug 14 00:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eye on Microsoft: Security Synopsis http://ping.fm/Wi9yuAug 14 00:24
oiaohmReally not.Aug 14 00:24
Diablo-D3four x16 slotsAug 14 00:24
oiaohmhttp://www.nvidia.com/page/quadroplex.html  << Diablo-D3Aug 14 00:25
oiaohm4 x 4 Diablo-D3Aug 14 00:26
Diablo-D3where do you see 4x4?Aug 14 00:26
oiaohmEach of those boxs is basically 4 cards.Aug 14 00:28
DaemonFChmmm, I did get MediaPortal workingAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCI eventually just used Microsoft SQL ServerAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCall kinds of MySQL errorsAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCI probably did something wrongAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCI'll be damned if I'm touching that again, another half hour waitAug 14 00:29
Diablo-D3oiaohm: the bigger of the two says it only has 4 quadro gpusAug 14 00:29
DaemonFCI just want something that works well without any kind of DRM supportAug 14 00:30
DaemonFCso I'm trying pretty much all the freeware I can findAug 14 00:30
oiaohmThe normal quadro card only has 1 GPU.   Those boxes basically put 4 in 1 box  Diablo-D3.Aug 14 00:32
Diablo-D3so?Aug 14 00:32
oiaohmI would like to see AMD/ATI offer equal.Aug 14 00:32
Diablo-D3they're effectively custom built external pci-e x16 boxesAug 14 00:32
oiaohmYep Diablo-D3Aug 14 00:33
Diablo-D3and the tesla is more impressive anyhowAug 14 00:33
schestowitz"Windows XP costs just $5 for sub-notebook assemblers in China (based on someone close to the matter)" - true?Aug 14 00:34
oiaohmhttp://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/77/1  You can get tesla in external box configuration as well Diablo-D3Aug 14 00:34
Diablo-D3oiaohm: I knowAug 14 00:35
Diablo-D3but I'm stating they're a better choice for computational workAug 14 00:35
oiaohmIt was just the one I found first.Aug 14 00:35
Diablo-D3they're gtx 2xx quadros fabbed specifically for gpgpu workAug 14 00:35
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but theres a small problemAug 14 00:35
oiaohmI do prefer some of the tesla boxs due to allowing card upgrades.Aug 14 00:35
Diablo-D3the cards they use to bridge are pci-e x8Aug 14 00:35
Diablo-D3you _can't_ buy external slot boxes with more than 4 cardsAug 14 00:36
Diablo-D3and you run out of slots very quicklyAug 14 00:36
oiaohmThat is why I say 4 x 4.Aug 14 00:36
Diablo-D3ahhAug 14 00:36
Diablo-D3also, ATI does offer something like thisAug 14 00:36
Diablo-D3technically everyone doesAug 14 00:36
oiaohmIe 4 motherboard times 4 in external cases.Aug 14 00:36
Diablo-D3just throw cards in third party boxesAug 14 00:37
oiaohmDrivers for effective use of limited pci-e busess is missing on the ati side.Aug 14 00:37
Diablo-D3not at allAug 14 00:37
Diablo-D3radeons work fine on x16 slots with less than 16 lanesAug 14 00:38
oiaohmNot lanes.Aug 14 00:38
Diablo-D3a lot of multiple slot mobos have x8 wiredAug 14 00:38
oiaohmYou don't want to be transfering data between cards connected to different pci-e ports on motherboard.Aug 14 00:38
oiaohmOr you can end up with major traffic hell.Aug 14 00:38
Diablo-D3technically thats not true BUTAug 14 00:38
Diablo-D3radeons dont do itAug 14 00:38
Diablo-D3it only does it in SLI mode when the bridge isnt installedAug 14 00:39
Diablo-D3and theres very very limited communicationAug 14 00:39
schestowitzhttp://www.archive.org/about/about.php "Many early movies were recycled to recover the silver in the film. The Library of Alexandria - an ancient center of learning containing a copy of every book in the world - was eventually burned to the ground. Even now, at the turn of the 21st century, no comprehensive archives of television or radio programs exist."Aug 14 00:39
oiaohmNvidia has some drivers with complete complex card management Diablo-D3Aug 14 00:39
Diablo-D3they don't share uploaded data, they only share rendering output in cases where this makes senseAug 14 00:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: except you dont need itAug 14 00:39
Diablo-D3fglrx, for example, does work with 4 cards alreadyAug 14 00:40
Diablo-D3I don't know if it will work past thatAug 14 00:40
oiaohmIts past that where the issue is.Aug 14 00:40
Diablo-D3no one has triedAug 14 00:40
Diablo-D3it should work fine, thoughAug 14 00:40
Diablo-D3it would just keep detecting more cardsAug 14 00:41
Diablo-D3and, btw, I'm pretty sure someone at ATI would point out the insanity of thisAug 14 00:41
Diablo-D3its probably not a great ideaAug 14 00:41
Diablo-D3especially since ATI has drivers that can run opencl shares on the CPU as well, allowing you to use everything in the system to computeAug 14 00:42
Diablo-D3so you'd be better off with multiple machines to feed the gpusAug 14 00:42
oiaohmCPU is busy enough with 16 cards to manage.Aug 14 00:42
Diablo-D3not only that, its probably cheaperAug 14 00:42
Diablo-D3the cost of some of those larger external boxes is the same of a cheap opteron systemAug 14 00:43
oiaohm Not really cheaper.Aug 14 00:43
oiaohmResponce time is no where near a good.Aug 14 00:43
Diablo-D3I've seen a 4 slot box go for $1kAug 14 00:43
oiaohmpci-e 16 bus beats most things.Aug 14 00:44
Diablo-D3$1k could buy me a non-opteron 4x slot mobo, cpu, and whatever elseAug 14 00:44
Diablo-D3and, btw, oiaohmAug 14 00:44
oiaohmYou would have to go for motherboard interlinks.Aug 14 00:44
Diablo-D3if AMD _really_ wanted to do thisAug 14 00:44
Diablo-D3they'd build GPUs that connect via HTAug 14 00:44
oiaohmIssue with HT board they are just as expensive per board as 4 slot pci-eAug 14 00:45
Diablo-D3yupAug 14 00:45
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Diablo-D3oiaohm: but you're missing the point thoughAug 14 00:45
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Diablo-D3$1k buys me a fast 4x slot moboAug 14 00:45
oiaohmIf HT was cheaper there would be less need to do the 16 card evil.Aug 14 00:45
Diablo-D3$1k buys me an external boxAug 14 00:45
Diablo-D3its obvious which I'd go withAug 14 00:45
Diablo-D3(hint: its another machine)Aug 14 00:45
Diablo-D3if I'm doing a lot of gpgpu computation, I'd _still_ have a cluster of machinesAug 14 00:46
Diablo-D3so either way I'm buying more than one machineAug 14 00:46
oiaohmLot of the 1k 4x slot don't have the HT.Aug 14 00:46
Diablo-D3none of it has HTAug 14 00:46
Diablo-D3if it had HT this wouldnt be a problemAug 14 00:46
Diablo-D3HT gear his available but hard to getAug 14 00:47
Diablo-D3I can get socket F ht 3.0 boards with ht slots, but the only thing I can do is cluster themAug 14 00:47
oiaohmIf there was even a 2 slot pci -e with HT cheap it would win over.Aug 14 00:47
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wellAug 14 00:47
Diablo-D3most of these HT boards dont have a pci-e x16 slotAug 14 00:47
oiaohmThat is the issue causing the insanity when you need responce times.Aug 14 00:48
Diablo-D3except you dontAug 14 00:48
Diablo-D3you're doing large scale computational workAug 14 00:49
Diablo-D3response time is rather out the windowAug 14 00:49
Diablo-D3I mean, if they had pci-e to HT bridgesAug 14 00:49
oiaohmLot of stuff I am doing is on the fly.Aug 14 00:49
Diablo-D3this would be solvedAug 14 00:49
oiaohmThere are a lot of ways to solve it.Aug 14 00:49
oiaohm1 motherboard with HT and pci-e support.Aug 14 00:50
oiaohmWould be the simplest.Aug 14 00:50
Diablo-D3the mobo doesnt need pci-e supportAug 14 00:50
oiaohmHT to pci-e interface.Aug 14 00:50
Diablo-D3that'd be in the box thoughAug 14 00:50
Diablo-D3to the mobo it'd just be something else plugged into HTAug 14 00:50
Diablo-D3oiaohm: but the fun partAug 14 00:51
Diablo-D3you can plug multiple machines together with HTAug 14 00:51
oiaohmNvidia massive external boxs are normally use with high grade 3d pupertery for movie work.Aug 14 00:52
Diablo-D3yeah, but thats for graphics workAug 14 00:52
oiaohmWhere you kinda do need the responce time.Aug 14 00:52
Diablo-D3graphics work is boringAug 14 00:52
Diablo-D3especially when you can do fast encryption/decryption on a gpgpuAug 14 00:52
oiaohmAt least you under stand the wall you get around with the 4x4 evil.Aug 14 00:53
Diablo-D3yeahAug 14 00:53
oiaohmThey are great when they work.  Boy when one gets a glitch finding it can be a pain in ass.Aug 14 00:53
Diablo-D3but its largely a hackAug 14 00:53
oiaohmDue to all the data transfers.Aug 14 00:54
oiaohmHopefully HT will become more common and some maker will release a pci-e with HT board of some form.Aug 14 00:56
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Diablo-D3oh noes oiaohm diedAug 14 00:59
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twitterpeople should value their freedom at more than $5 (04:42:23 PM) schestowitz: "Windows XP costs just $5 for sub-notebook assemblers in China (based on someone close to the matter)" - true?Aug 14 02:20
twitterhmph.  Pidgin does not have a good memory.  I consider it a forgiveness mechanism.  In some cases, I wish it had a better memory. -> ThistleWeb: then he forgets who he's suposed to have ignoredAug 14 02:29
ThistleWeblol, hours later the excuse arrivesAug 14 02:31
ThistleWebnot that I care, I expect I'll be ignored in short order anywayAug 14 02:31
ThistleWebit is funny though, I've never had that problem with pidginAug 14 02:31
ThistleWebnor have I seen anyone even mention itAug 14 02:32
twitterPeople have a right to express their opinions.  I have a right to ignore people who intentionally provoke.Aug 14 02:32
ThistleWebyou must be uniqueAug 14 02:32
ThistleWebperhaps you should file a bug reportAug 14 02:32
ThistleWebdude, you ignore everyone who won't agree with youAug 14 02:32
ThistleWebeveryone is only a few sentences away from being accused of being a trollAug 14 02:33
ThistleWebyou have the people skills of RMSAug 14 02:33
twitterSome jackass is smoking.  It stinks up my whole place.Aug 14 02:33
ThistleWebhave you considered what jumping on people does to newbies in the BN channel?Aug 14 02:34
ThistleWebwhat impression they get of the cause, by the actions of peeps in hereAug 14 02:34
ThistleWebit's why people often cringe when RMS is mentionedAug 14 02:35
ThistleWebsure he has a great philosophy, but his way of expressing it leave a LOT to be desired and do more harm than good sometimesAug 14 02:35
ThistleWebsome of his hardline attitudes leave people thinking "losers"Aug 14 02:36
ThistleWebrather than bring people in, it turns people off, who were interested enough to poke their heads in for a lookAug 14 02:36
ThistleWeblemmie guess, you've not seen any of that, because I'm "ignored" until the next timeAug 14 02:37
ThistleWebroflAug 14 02:37
ThistleWebmaybe if pidgin can't keep up with your ignore list, that you should look at a different client. I understand it can be rather big if you have a habit of ignoring peeps who disagree with youAug 14 02:38
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twitterho ho, the worm turns on M$ in the i4i trail.  More damaging email is revealed.Aug 14 02:47
twitterhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/software/enterpriseapps/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219300122Aug 14 02:47
twitterHere's what the friendly M$ people say behind your back ->  "We saw [i4i's products] some time ago and met its creators. Word 11 will make it obsolete," said Martin Sawicki, a member of Microsoft's XML for Word development team, in an e-mail to a colleague. "It looks great for XP though," wrote Sawicki, according to court records.Aug 14 02:48
ThistleWebI understand the "my client forgets" excuse if the name kept changing, in my case it does not. I have never changed namesAug 14 02:48
twitterM$ version of patent law, "ours are good, yours are bad."Aug 14 02:50
twitterThis troll complements me.  -> (12:59:07 PM) ThistleWeb: he seems to have the people skills of RMSAug 14 03:02
twitterThisleWeb seems to have the graces and instinct of a M$ TE.Aug 14 03:03
ThistleWeblolAug 14 03:03
ThistleWebRMS is NOT the type of person who should be dealing with peopleAug 14 03:04
ThistleWebit was not a complimentAug 14 03:04
ThistleWebbut feel free to accept it as suchAug 14 03:04
ThistleWebthe accusation is very "twitter-like" - "call them a troll, or a M$ proxy"Aug 14 03:06
ThistleWebperhaps a reading of "the boy who cried wolf" should be on the reading listAug 14 03:06
ThistleWebin the meantime, feel free to pretend to ignore me again, then blame Pidgin when you forget and start talking to me againAug 14 03:07
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DaemonFChmmm, looks like "PlayReady also does per-movie blockingAug 14 04:42
DaemonFCit blocked TBS just in time for DOOMAug 14 04:43
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DaemonFChttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/business/media/14adco.htmlAug 14 06:53
DaemonFCGlenn Beck loses more advertisers as all of them with good taste have started to bailAug 14 06:53
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DaemonFChttp://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/13/2022212/Local-Privilege-Escalation-On-All-Linux-KernelsAug 14 07:15
schestowitz"Microsoft has underlined support for its Internet Explorer 6 web browser, despite acknowledging its flaws." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8196242.stm They should just DROP this anti-Web turd.Aug 14 07:16
DaemonFChehAug 14 07:16
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DaemonFC8 year long vulnerability which anyone can exploit to get rootAug 14 07:16
DaemonFCcoolAug 14 07:16
DaemonFCschestowitz, they technically have to support IE 5.01 until the middle  of next yearAug 14 07:17
DaemonFCcause it shipped with Windows 2000Aug 14 07:17
DaemonFCthat was out in 1999Aug 14 07:19
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DaemonFCthe standalone IE 5 that isAug 14 07:19
DaemonFCit's crazy to think anyone would still be using itAug 14 07:20
dsmith_or IE6 for that matterAug 14 07:21
DaemonFCMicrosoft kind of backed itself into having to support the IE version that came with Windows when they decided to call it a Windows componentAug 14 07:23
twitterFinding the obvious in music surveys http://slashdot.org/submission/1055581/People-Want-Freedom-and-Ownership-in-MusicAug 14 07:23
DaemonFCthat means that every version of IE they release with a version of Windows automatically lives on for at least 10 yearsAug 14 07:24
twitterI do not understand what M$ means by "support for IE 6"Aug 14 07:24
DaemonFCmeans that IE 8 will be supported til 2019Aug 14 07:25
twitterdoes that mean that they will keep coding to it while the rest of the world moves to reasonable web standards?Aug 14 07:25
DaemonFCno, it means that the rest of the world hacks on their site til it renders in IEAug 14 07:25
DaemonFCand bypasses the rest of what they could be usingAug 14 07:25
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twitterDoes it mean that all future versions of their own browsers will have IE 6's "flaws"?Aug 14 07:26
DaemonFCyou don't see any site turning away IE 7 or IE 8 usersAug 14 07:26
DaemonFCthe only reason they really want IE 6 to die is because of things like the box model bugAug 14 07:26
DaemonFCthat died with IE 7Aug 14 07:27
DaemonFCand the haslayout crap died with IE 8Aug 14 07:28
twitterI suspect what they mean is that they will continue trying to tie all of their software into one big M$ knot that no one else can use.Aug 14 07:28
DaemonFCit's possible to make a reasonably good, standards compliant page that IE 8 will renderAug 14 07:28
DaemonFCit doesn't support all kinds of fancy non-accepted standards like Firefox doesAug 14 07:29
MinceRnon-accepted by m$? :>Aug 14 07:29
DaemonFCimplementing support for draft and proposal features is bizarreAug 14 07:29
DaemonFCand dangerousAug 14 07:29
DaemonFCFirefox and Opera both do it thoughAug 14 07:29
MinceRhaving reference implementations helps standardizationAug 14 07:29
twitterSharepoint, Exchange, Silverlie, M$ Office and IE are all self referencing junk and all are increasingly rejectedAug 14 07:29
twitterlike Windows itselfAug 14 07:30
MinceRthe point is not to interfere with stuff that _is_ standardizedAug 14 07:30
DaemonFCit's more like Mozilla introduces something and decides to put it in to try and force the issueAug 14 07:30
MinceRand IE fails at that.Aug 14 07:30
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twitterIE fails at many real standards, purposefully.  Like ogg.  There's no reason Windows should not have ogg vorbis and theora support out of the box.Aug 14 07:31
DaemonFCso twitter, how do you explain the 8 year old Linux vulnerabilityAug 14 07:32
DaemonFCthat allows root access by any running programAug 14 07:32
twitterexcept that free formats mess with M$'s lame media invasion.Aug 14 07:32
DaemonFCyou were after all saying how funny it was that Microsoft left one open for 2 yearsAug 14 07:33
twitterThey could also have ODF, but that messes up their obsolete productivity suite sales.Aug 14 07:33
anivarinteresting howto http://www.j4v4m4n.in/2009/08/14/use-your-g1-as-internet-connection-for-your-laptop-aka-tethering/Aug 14 07:33
twitterthat looks painful.  it would be nice if you could just get a PC card or USB dongle without incurring additional telco rape charges.Aug 14 07:35
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twitter->  It is disappointing to see all tethering apps removed from the Market (Google T Mobile following Apple AT & T model)Aug 14 07:37
twitternon free platforms suck like that.Aug 14 07:37
DaemonFCnah, proprietary software isn't necessarily badAug 14 07:39
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DaemonFCDRM isAug 14 07:39
anivartwitter: yeaAug 14 07:40
MinceRuntil IE renders standards-compliant pages according to the standards, regardless of domain name (and other hacks), it won't be a web browserAug 14 07:44
MinceRit's a m$-web browser.Aug 14 07:44
twittertoday is a recorded music milestone.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_PageAug 14 07:44
twitterThomas Edison demonstrated recorded music at a press conference in 1888.Aug 14 07:45
DaemonFCit does render standards compliant pagesAug 14 07:46
DaemonFCif you mean, technically standards compliantAug 14 07:47
twitterHe played a recording of a 30 year old poem that had been set to music ten years previously.Aug 14 07:47
MinceRhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/29/hakon_lie_ie8_interoperability/Aug 14 07:48
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schestowitzHey, anivar Aug 14 07:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Will Not Comply with Software Patents But Will Eventually Comply with the GPL http://ping.fm/sAzP4Aug 14 07:59
schestowitzWhat does this troll want? http://twitter.com/cjadamscollier/status/3297578470Aug 14 08:01
schestowitzthe cj trollAug 14 08:01
dsmith_SHAREPOINT IS JUNKAug 14 08:02
twitterhe probably wants what all trolls to.  to deceive, annoy and waste timeAug 14 08:02
schestowitzA kinder Sony? Naaa..... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/sony_epub/Aug 14 08:02
schestowitzdsmith_: but it has the Microsoft logoAug 14 08:02
dsmith_LOLAug 14 08:02
dsmith_wel if you can;t make it good, make it *look* goodAug 14 08:03
schestowitzWeird: MS revives Outlook for Mac < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/sony_epub/ >Aug 14 08:03
schestowitzMaybe they look for a future inside other people's platformsAug 14 08:03
schestowitz"If you can't make it good, at least make it look good.”Aug 14 08:03
schestowitz--PearlyAug 14 08:04
dsmith_yea, thats the exact lineAug 14 08:04
schestowitzI heard about SharePunkt disastersAug 14 08:04
schestowitzFor example a bank that was unavailable for weeksAug 14 08:05
schestowitzIt's a good, GOOD think the LSE is dumping MicrosoftAug 14 08:05
dsmith_oh? send a linkAug 14 08:05
schestowitzMicrosoft will no doubt try to GAG those who speak about itAug 14 08:05
schestowitzI hear that's how they operate, forcing people never to admit Microsoft's faultAug 14 08:05
dsmith_compnay where I work, asked me what I recommend, I told them Clearspace by Jive, as we already use the IM softwareAug 14 08:06
schestowitzdsmith_: they kept it secretAug 14 08:06
schestowitzI know from a person who was close to itAug 14 08:06
dsmith_but this young kid start using sharepoint express insteadAug 14 08:06
schestowitzThere was scarce coverage in DanishAug 14 08:06
dsmith_ahhhh no wonderAug 14 08:06
dsmith_lolAug 14 08:06
schestowitzA lot of Microsoft's biggest failure you'll never hear aboutAug 14 08:06
dsmith_now he is running around giving little classes on sharepointAug 14 08:07
schestowitzTHey love controlling what people think and how they feel about Microsoft productsAug 14 08:07
dsmith_I told him 98% percent of the office will not understand itAug 14 08:07
dsmith_alot of ppl tell me they hate vistaAug 14 08:07
schestowitzWhat happens when a virus hits?Aug 14 08:07
dsmith_and I tell them wait till vista 7Aug 14 08:07
schestowitzSharePunkt runs only on WindowsAug 14 08:07
schestowitzWhen down, it takes down EVERYTHING.Aug 14 08:08
dsmith_yepAug 14 08:08
schestowitzThat's one of the issuesAug 14 08:08
schestowitzBut Microsoft harps about 'the cloud' being riskyAug 14 08:08
dsmith_lolAug 14 08:08
schestowitzEven if offline for 1- 2 houtsAug 14 08:08
schestowitz*hoursAug 14 08:08
MinceRi thought their biggest failure was vista.Aug 14 08:08
schestowitzSame with Exchange, which is notorious for dropping mailAug 14 08:08
dsmith_pandomoniom breaksout if something dies for 15 minsAug 14 08:08
schestowitzI've seen it right here catching a virusAug 14 08:09
dsmith_i hate exchangeAug 14 08:09
schestowitzSo the profs and postdocs can't get their friggin' mailAug 14 08:09
dsmith_the filtering table is way too smallAug 14 08:09
dsmith_32kB?Aug 14 08:09
dsmith_wtfAug 14 08:09
schestowitzThe IT staff working overtime to reinstall exchangeAug 14 08:09
schestowitzCause the virus, the IT chief told me, also deleted/corrupted the anti-virus softwareAug 14 08:09
schestowitzAnti-virus software on the server to protect the serverAug 14 08:09
dsmith_lolAug 14 08:09
dsmith_yepAug 14 08:10
dsmith_they have malwarebytes, avg and macafeeAug 14 08:10
dsmith_though I think they took mcCrappy off nowAug 14 08:10
schestowitzMinceR: you can't see the V word anymoreAug 14 08:10
schestowitzV7 is comingAug 14 08:10
schestowitzIt'll be big... disappointmentAug 14 08:10
MinceRwell, they call it 7 now, but it's still vistaAug 14 08:10
schestowitzCause people don't buy V7 (with a computer ''around' it)Aug 14 08:11
schestowitzPeople won't buy V7Aug 14 08:11
twitterjust rotate the 7 and you see the VAug 14 08:11
schestowitzThey only get it forcefed when buying a PCAug 14 08:11
schestowitzBundling, OEM pricingAug 14 08:11
schestowitzBut few people buy PCs and even fewer willAug 14 08:11
schestowitzI used to call it 7apourware in 2008Aug 14 08:11
dsmith_hehAug 14 08:12
dsmith_i have 7 on a vm image hereAug 14 08:12
schestowitzThere were other variations I can't rememberAug 14 08:12
dsmith_it stinks...Aug 14 08:12
twittervapor lock, M$ heart attack.Aug 14 08:12
dsmith_kde 4 looks close to the sameAug 14 08:12
dsmith_I am wondering who copied whoAug 14 08:12
schestowitzIdeas in the air;...Aug 14 08:13
schestowitzApple copies a lot tooAug 14 08:13
MinceRkde4 came first, didn't it?Aug 14 08:13
schestowitzIt's called inspirationAug 14 08:13
MinceRalso, it was developed in an open processAug 14 08:13
schestowitzYou can't "unknow" what you see.Aug 14 08:13
dsmith_MinceR: yesAug 14 08:13
MinceRso m$ can keep its secrets and the kde team won'tAug 14 08:13
schestowitzArt is like that, poetry tooAug 14 08:13
schestowitzdsmith_: would be easy to showAug 14 08:13
schestowitzLook at COmes E-mailsAug 14 08:13
schestowitzMicrosoft looks at OS X systematically and copies themAug 14 08:14
schestowitzThere's proofAug 14 08:14
dsmith_i remember reading that that the vista dev. team that working on the startup sound spent 6-months on itAug 14 08:14
MinceRhave they also mentioned kde4 in those mails?Aug 14 08:14
schestowitzSo KDE4 used for 'inspiration' would not be surprisingAug 14 08:14
schestowitzMinceR: noAug 14 08:14
schestowitzJust the Messiah's precious little BSDAug 14 08:14
MinceR:)Aug 14 08:14
dsmith_how can  dev. team spend 6 months on a startup sound?Aug 14 08:15
schestowitzWTF: Bloke decapitates horse with chainsaw < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/horse_trial/ >Aug 14 08:15
MinceRwell, there's not much for a "developer team" to do at m$Aug 14 08:15
dsmith_lol RoyAug 14 08:15
schestowitzdsmith_: it was hypeAug 14 08:15
MinceRand the startup sound is most of what they do in a releaseAug 14 08:15
schestowitzOh, how much noise they made about the sound which they insisted everyone would hearAug 14 08:15
MinceRnew sounds, new skins, new code stolen from BSDAug 14 08:15
twitterchainsaw?  how else would you decapitate a horse?Aug 14 08:15
schestowitzYeah, like 2% of US businessesAug 14 08:15
dsmith_what kernels are there, bsd...linux and what elseAug 14 08:16
schestowitztwitter: haven't read the article yet. Repellent enough in the taglineAug 14 08:16
MinceRtwitter: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BFSAug 14 08:16
MinceR:>Aug 14 08:16
schestowitzAutocad attacks return after four years in wilderness < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/autocad_virus_comeback/ >Aug 14 08:17
schestowitzI wonder if it's WIndows-onlyAug 14 08:17
MinceR"petrol-driven coup de grâce" :DAug 14 08:17
schestowitzHad they ported to Linux as they once considered doing, that would diversify and limit damageAug 14 08:17
twitteryou might as well hope Autodesk brings back lispAug 14 08:18
twitterand dumps VBAug 14 08:18
schestowitzTwitter transformed into botnet command channel < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/13/twitter_master_control_channel/ >Aug 14 08:18
MinceRas a b$a member (a.k.a. m$ buddy), they can't afford to port.Aug 14 08:18
schestowitzThey use VB? No wonder it's such Windows drekAug 14 08:18
twitterso twitter really is a puppet master now?Aug 14 08:18
schestowitzVis-a-vis autodesk, remember what zombie came from there?Aug 14 08:19
schestowitzBartzmerAug 14 08:19
schestowitzThe person who destroyed Yahoo!Aug 14 08:19
twitterhttp://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=770215Aug 14 08:20
twitterbut they may still have lisp http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=770237Aug 14 08:20
*MinceR wonders if they'll ever use a real language :>Aug 14 08:20
schestowitzWhoa.Les Paul was still alive? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/14/les_paul_dead_at_94/Aug 14 08:20
twitterlisp routines to call ActiveX and with "Source code protection against theft and alteration"Aug 14 08:21
MinceRlisp code is protected against alteration by being unreadable :>Aug 14 08:22
twitterprotected against execution by ActiveX and virus attack.Aug 14 08:22
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twitteroh wow, " 4. Does LISP still work in AutoCAD at the command line, in menus, or in the acad.mnl file?Yes, using the command line to evaluate LISP code directly continues to work as it has in the past."Aug 14 08:24
twitterI was misinformed.  Autocad still has lisp.Aug 14 08:24
schestowitzMore Debt Watching from the Command Line < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/more-debt-watching-command-line >Aug 14 08:25
schestowitzamarsh04_: your comment here: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/debian_contempt_end_user_values_has_stop#comment-77112Aug 14 08:26
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schestowitzHmmmm.. why did LXer put this into the wire..? http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136626/Cut_Paste_Better_with_Free_Clipboard_Utility?source=rss_opsysAug 14 08:32
schestowitzDownload software to make Windows more like Linux. Wow.Aug 14 08:32
twitterugh, it's not fun, but it's not hard to get older packages to work on a current version of Debian.Aug 14 08:33
twitterespecially a fontAug 14 08:33
twitterttf fonts work for me.  I'm not sure what happened to Terry Hancock.Aug 14 08:36
schestowitzhttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5214623279.html?kc=rssAug 14 08:37
schestowitz"Microsoft COO Kevin Turner, who claimed at Microsoft's annual financial analysts' meeting that retailers selling Linux netbooks had told him they are experiencing return rates "like four or five times higher than what we're seeing on other PCs that have Windows.""Aug 14 08:37
schestowitzLiar. Same salesmen he was in Wal-MartAug 14 08:37
twitterI am sure he'll hate Vista and Vista 7.Aug 14 08:37
twitterHe should know from Walmart that is not true.  You have the M$ email where the Walmart Linux hit team notes that Linux at Walmart did about as well as anything else.Aug 14 08:38
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schestowitzMary Jo is disappointing: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3727Aug 14 08:47
schestowitzShe has become like an extension of W-E spreading buzzAug 14 08:47
schestowitzIt's just Microsoft promotion via "Microsoft blogs", it's not newsAug 14 08:47
schestowitzWe hardly see "Google blogs" or "the IBM blog"Aug 14 08:47
schestowitzMore evidence of Microsoft being a blasting marketing companyAug 14 08:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Scientific proof that m-kernels are more secure: http://ping.fm/JthaM (A Formally Correct Operating System Kernel)Aug 14 08:51
schestowitzhttp://www.linux.com/learn/new-user-guides/34658-everything-you-never-wanted-to-know-about-linux-maintenanceAug 14 08:54
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anivarhi schestowitz :-)Aug 14 08:57
schestowitzwhat's new?Aug 14 09:00
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schestowitzApple fans take cover.... http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/08/14/jason-calcacanis-the-case-for-seizing-apples-technology/ (Jason Calcacanis: The Case for Seizing Apple’s Technology)Aug 14 09:04
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Diablo-D3I wish apple would just come out with the tablet alreadyAug 14 09:05
schestowitzZer01 Fails To Deliver Again; Blames Everyone Else, Dumps Buzzkirk, Threatens Legal Response To Reporters < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090813/1039415865.shtml >Aug 14 09:07
anivarschestowitz:  nothing special. But it is interesting to look at the Advt for the director post of International Centre for free and  Open source software (ICFOSS) in keralaAug 14 09:08
anivarhttp://itmission.kerala.gov.in/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=314:applications-invited-for-the-post-of-director-icfoss&catid=56:careers&Itemid=133Aug 14 09:08
anivarit seems somebody is already selectedAug 14 09:08
anivar:-PAug 14 09:08
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anivarschestowitz: Hope you remember EDGI Kerala storyAug 14 09:11
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schestowitzAsay is being silly again. "Update: See Sean Michael Kerner's post, suggesting that two particulars (i4i is not a patent troll and i4i and Microsoft had a business relationship) suggest that the open-source world has little to fear from this suit." http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10308909-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoadAug 14 09:19
schestowitzAs usual, CNET lets the junkanalysis stayAug 14 09:20
schestowitzanivar: yes, I remember and link to it occasionallyAug 14 09:20
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anivarthere is an Interesting discussion in user groups http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm/browse_thread/thread/d6656de54f99b746#Aug 14 09:30
anivarBTW I hope you are aware about FOSSCOMM.IN, the network of foss Communities in India. I was one of the initiatorsAug 14 09:31
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anivarIts Intervention in Open standards policy is listed here http://fosscomm.in/OpenStandardsAug 14 09:32
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anivaralso take a Look at Response to ICT4Education policy of Govt of India http://fosscomm.in/LetterForEducationPolicyAug 14 09:32
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schestowitzMicrosoft FUD tactics again: http://ostatic.com/blog/linux-netbooks-return-rates-are-not-the-issueAug 14 09:41
schestowitzAsay's ignorance is propagating to other sites: http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/microsoft-patent-suit-may-affect-more-than-word/?cs=34903Aug 14 09:43
schestowitzHe writes about things he does not understandAug 14 09:44
schestowitzHe should stick to iPhones and 'cloud'Aug 14 09:44
schestowitzanivar: a lot of the discussion is not in EnglishAug 14 09:45
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schestowitzLike this: http://replyspot.blogspot.com/2009/08/blog-post.htmlAug 14 09:46
schestowitzWatch the US press jumping to defend a criminal company that was found guilty in several continents: http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/eu-missed-evidence-in-intel-antitrust-investigation/?cs=34815Aug 14 09:47
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schestowitzBuzz and sentiments overtake rationale in these news... poor poor Intel... they only bribed and destroyed evidence, but the judges won't listenAug 14 09:48
anivarschestowitz:  that is my blogAug 14 09:48
anivarin local languageAug 14 09:48
schestowitz"According to their findings, which were recently published in the PLoS Biology journal, the bio-physical mechanism that exists in our brain enables single nerve cells in the cerebral cortex to perform word identification tasks almost perfectly." http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-08/thuo-hur081209.phpAug 14 09:53
schestowitzSettlement Likely in Goldman Sachs Code Theft Case < http://www.securitiesindustry.com/news/-23817-1.html >Aug 14 09:54
schestowitzCute picture: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/aug/12/wildlife-conservationAug 14 09:55
schestowitz^more on us humans destroying the inhibitability of the planet we haveAug 14 09:56
schestowitzhttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/world/asia/24pstan.html?_r=1 "An airstrike believed to have been carried out by a United States drone killed at least 60 people at a funeral for a Taliban fighter in South Waziristan on Tuesday, residents of the area and local news reports said. "Aug 14 09:58
schestowitzAttending a funeral apparently makes one a terrorist too, even if you're a spouse or kidAug 14 09:58
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schestowitzECT is again quoting Microsoft AstroTurf "hairyfeet" http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Always-Look-on-the-Bright-Side-of-FOSS-67850.html?wlc=1250240897Aug 14 10:04
schestowitzThese machines use Linux: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/08/another-court-deals-major-blow-to-dvd-copying/Aug 14 10:07
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cubezzzoh yeah, that will stop dvd copying for sureAug 14 10:11
schestowitzHeh. 'You are plagiarizing bruce schneier from his book. Atleast have a curtsey to quote and attribute. " http://www.boingboing.net/2009/08/12/movie-industry-wants.htmlAug 14 10:11
schestowitzcubezzz: ayeAug 14 10:11
schestowitzSame with RealAug 14 10:11
schestowitzRealDVDAug 14 10:11
schestowitzBased on Linux tooAug 14 10:11
schestowitzDemocracy Without Elections http://reason.com/news/show/135397.html "The unfortunate truth is that four of the 100 members of the Senate got there without the consent of the governed. "Aug 14 10:12
*MinceR_ is now known as MinceRAug 14 10:13
cubezzzschestowitz, I don't think dvd backup is illegal, at least not in CanadaAug 14 10:14
cubezzzsurely it's easy enough to doAug 14 10:14
schestowitzLethem and EFF on why Google Book Search needs privacy guarantees < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/08/12/lethem-and-eff-on-wh.html >Aug 14 10:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Shut Yer Mouth: Man Gets 6 Months for Yawning < http://ping.fm/4862B > Probably doesn't tell the whole story, but still...Aug 14 10:14
schestowitzYeah, it's for backuAug 14 10:14
schestowitzTHey found a way to ban backupAug 14 10:14
schestowitzI.e. to expire contentAug 14 10:14
schestowitzDVDs have wear. They no longer work after something like 5-10 yearsAug 14 10:14
schestowitzSo forget about duplicating those wedding videos while you're at itAug 14 10:15
cubezzzI have a CD-RW which was made in 1995Aug 14 10:15
schestowitzApple patching too late. http://tech.yahoo.com/news/macworld/20090812/tc_macworld/securityupdate2009004fixesbindvulnerabilityAug 14 10:15
cubezzzI'm pretty sure it still worksAug 14 10:15
schestowitzDrive or CD?Aug 14 10:16
cubezzzthe discAug 14 10:16
schestowitzhttp://askbobrankin.com/lifetime_of_a_cdrom_disk.htmlAug 14 10:16
schestowitz"As with any backup medium (floppy disk, tape, CDROM, etc.) the lifetime of the data is an important consideration. Kodak has done extensive accelerated aging tests which indicate that their Infoguard CD-R should last 200 years. TDK say that their discs will last "about 100 years". Others tell horror stories that no-name CDs which they have burned are no longer readable after a few months."Aug 14 10:16
schestowitzWeird. I read something different not so long agoAug 14 10:16
schestowitz"Rub the disk gently with toothpaste (the pasty kind, not a gel) in a RADIAL (not circular) motion from the center of the disk to the outside edge. Wash and dry it again and see if it's readable."Aug 14 10:17
cubezzzI'll look at what make it isAug 14 10:17
cubezzzAcerAug 14 10:18
cubezzzso that's about 14 yearsAug 14 10:18
cubezzzyeah the drivers don't last that longAug 14 10:19
cubezzzer, drives I should say :)Aug 14 10:19
Diablo-D3schestowitz: its funny you should link to total liesAug 14 10:20
cubezzzspindle or stepper motor usually goesAug 14 10:20
schestowitzanivar: see http://osindia.blogspot.com/2009/08/power-of-open-source-development.htmlAug 14 10:20
schestowitzIt's a shame that Red Hat employees can't tell apart RMS' work from LinusAug 14 10:20
schestowitzI saw this article the other day, but didn't know who wrote itAug 14 10:20
cubezzzconsumer grade electronics like dvd players don't last very longAug 14 10:20
schestowitzYEsAug 14 10:21
schestowitzIt's important to have transferable dataAug 14 10:21
schestowitzAs in, being able to migrate b/w generationsAug 14 10:22
schestowitzThus the danger of DRMAug 14 10:22
MinceRcd and dvd is crap technology anywayAug 14 10:22
schestowitzThus the danger of copying being forbiddenAug 14 10:22
anivarschestowitz:  hmmAug 14 10:22
schestowitzThus the danger of proprietary software and codecsAug 14 10:22
anivarit is venky from redhatAug 14 10:22
cubezzzhow goes compact flash and SD memory cards compare?Aug 14 10:22
schestowitzEven the libraries need to shift between media types over timeAug 14 10:22
cubezzzgoes=doesAug 14 10:22
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schestowitzMagnetic HDDs have lasted for a long time thoughAug 14 10:23
cubezzzI was told a while ago by a video expert that some high quality magnetic tape recordings have lasted 30 years or longerAug 14 10:24
schestowitzanivar: when I saw the original I thought it was written by somewhat who has no clue about FOSSAug 14 10:24
schestowitzEsp. because of that fallacy that 'open source' [sic] came 10 years ago after Linus 'invented' the Linus 'operating system' [sic]Aug 14 10:24
schestowitzcubezzz: magnetic tapes are simplerAug 14 10:25
cubezzzmy LPs from the early 70's still work :)Aug 14 10:25
schestowitzThey become lossy, not faultyAug 14 10:25
schestowitzWith encrypted DVD, bad data screws whole chunks if now the whole thingAug 14 10:25
schestowitzDepends on how you divide portions to decodeAug 14 10:26
anivarschestowitz:  I will respond to it. I  didn't seen it beforeAug 14 10:26
schestowitzcubezzz: same with my parents'Aug 14 10:26
schestowitzBut it just gets noisyAug 14 10:26
schestowitzThe signal is distorted a bitAug 14 10:26
schestowitzIt's data that can be approximatedAug 14 10:26
cubezzzmy Amiga disks went blank on me, before that happened I printed out all the source code I had writtenAug 14 10:28
cubezzzso I guess if I really had to I could type it or use OCR on itAug 14 10:29
cubezzza lot of people never did that, and they lost their stuffAug 14 10:29
schestowitzVideo games sales have sunk. Good.Aug 14 10:35
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schestowitzOuch. "Ten days ago I documented how my hosting provider deleted the wrong account and wiped sutor.com and some other sites I own. I had backups for all the files and got most everything running within a few hours, but it was a pain." http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=3912 Aug 14 10:39
schestowitzhttp://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=3912Aug 14 10:40
schestowitzhttp://lwn.net/Articles/346728/ <- red hat fixAug 14 10:40
schestowitzThe latest vulnerability some sites are hyping up is a local one only, but they mark it "critical"Aug 14 10:41
schestowitzBasically, don't allow jerks to have an account on your machine and you'l be safe.Aug 14 10:41
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Diablo-D3dudeAug 14 10:43
Diablo-D3you do realizeAug 14 10:43
Diablo-D3Im the god of archiving shit, right?Aug 14 10:43
Diablo-D3http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2006/10/30/how-to-choose-cddvd-archival-mediaAug 14 10:43
Diablo-D3BAMAug 14 10:43
Diablo-D3I'm so awesomeAug 14 10:43
Diablo-D3I can type in "archival cd" into google and Im the first hitAug 14 10:44
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schestowitzhttp://www.golem.de/0908/69002.htmlAug 14 10:55
cubezzzhehAug 14 10:56
cubezzzalas, no more kodachromeAug 14 10:58
cubezzzwhich you probably know all aboutAug 14 10:58
Diablo-D3old newsAug 14 10:58
cubezzzI'm looking for a good slide scanner actuallyAug 14 10:59
cubezzzsomething that works on Linux would be niceAug 14 10:59
Diablo-D3there isnt manyAug 14 11:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @mashable BREAKING: Twitter Announces Project Retweet http://bit.ly/pDSHGAug 14 11:00
schestowitz"Project" = we add a buttonAug 14 11:02
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sad news from Gentoo. "In memory of Ferris E. McCormick (fmccor): trustee, developer, and friend." < http://ping.fm/Kj0hg >Aug 14 11:10
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cubezzzyeah, optical storage doesn't seem to bad for longevityAug 14 11:13
Diablo-D3cubezzz: see that url I posted above?Aug 14 11:13
Diablo-D3read it.Aug 14 11:13
Diablo-D3this is the kind of media you will buy if you value your dataAug 14 11:13
cubezzzyes, I just didAug 14 11:13
schestowitzThere's an element of truth here: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4648Aug 14 11:15
cubezzzI used Maxell Pro CDRsAug 14 11:15
cubezzzMaxell for DVD-R as wellAug 14 11:15
cubezzzand other ones occassionallyAug 14 11:15
Diablo-D3maxell sucksAug 14 11:15
cubezzzMaxell CD Pro's are Taiyo Yuden :)Aug 14 11:16
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Diablo-D3ahh, they are?Aug 14 11:17
Diablo-D3thats okay thenAug 14 11:17
cubezzzI'd have to check the media code to be 100% sure but I'm pretty sureAug 14 11:18
Diablo-D3cubezzz: btwAug 14 11:18
Diablo-D3you do realize you're not going to get a good negative/slide scanner for under $1000 right?Aug 14 11:18
cubezzzyeah, I sort of figured thatAug 14 11:19
cubezzzNikon was one I was thinking aboutAug 14 11:19
Diablo-D3nikon's newer models aret that greatAug 14 11:19
schestowitz"The first keynote at OpenSource World was a replacement speaker from Dell who simply went through their standard cloud computing slide deck. The hall was so empty they removed about 200-300 chairs from the back before the next speaker to keep it from looking so sparse. Not a good sign."Aug 14 11:20
schestowitzhttp://blogs.opennms.org/?p=1071Aug 14 11:20
schestowitzFive reasons I prefer Opera over Firefox http://linuxcritic.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/five-reasons-i-prefer-opera-over-firefox/Aug 14 11:21
schestowitzIf only Opera was FS...Aug 14 11:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] ACTA at HAR2009 on Sat at 3pm by FFII working group leader Ante Wessels: http://bit.ly/1QFt30Aug 14 11:22
schestowitzMore doubt cast: http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/08/12/red-hats-success-and-open-sources-failure/Aug 14 11:24
schestowitzhttps://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2009/08/13/firefox-3-about-to-get-a-major-update/Aug 14 11:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: thats oldAug 14 11:30
*Diablo-D3 has been running the 3.5 branch for awhileAug 14 11:30
schestowitzAye.Aug 14 11:31
schestowitzI will post some Linux news in a moment. Still going strong for FSAug 14 11:31
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Diablo-D3cubezzz: how much you looking to spend, btw?Aug 14 11:34
schestowitzYay. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3175567 Aug 14 11:40
Diablo-D3cubezzz: historically, the best negative/slide scanner ever was canon's fs4000Aug 14 11:40
Diablo-D3they dont make it anymoreAug 14 11:40
Diablo-D3theres nikon's coolscan 4000, and they dont make that anymore either (which has been replaced with the 5000 which arguably is the same quality in a newer package)Aug 14 11:41
schestowitzhttp://www.bmighty.com/blog/main/archives/2009/08/did_microsoft_j.html "If you're itching to buy that hot new WinMo smartphone, go for it. Just don't act surprised when the next version of Windows Mobile turns out to be the last."Aug 14 11:41
schestowitzIt confirms that this ugly hack of Windows may be dying \o/Aug 14 11:41
Diablo-D3schestowitz: microsoft already didAug 14 11:42
schestowitzLinux and iPhone/BB kill itAug 14 11:42
schestowitzTHey don't sell phoneAug 14 11:42
schestowitzThey license an OSAug 14 11:42
schestowitzDead business modelAug 14 11:42
Diablo-D3no, microsoft killed itAug 14 11:42
schestowitzNext up: desktopsAug 14 11:42
schestowitzDiablo-D3: noAug 14 11:42
Diablo-D3they've already replaced it, this is widely knownAug 14 11:42
schestowitztoo expensive to maintainsAug 14 11:42
schestowitz*t maintainAug 14 11:42
schestowitzNot enough companies licensing itAug 14 11:43
schestowitzDanger(R)Aug 14 11:43
Diablo-D3midori.Aug 14 11:43
schestowitzSome investor told me that MSFT was gonna buy RIMAug 14 11:43
Diablo-D3schestowitz: midori replaces winmoAug 14 11:43
schestowitzhttp://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/08/13/are-there-too-many-linux-distros-case-in-point-hannah-montana/Aug 14 11:45
schestowitzDiablo-D3: too little, too lateAug 14 11:46
schestowitzAnd they don't have much resources leftAug 14 11:46
schestowitzTime's tickin'Aug 14 11:46
Diablo-D3schestowitz: thats not what Im sayingAug 14 11:46
Diablo-D3microsoft has already ended winmo themselvesAug 14 11:46
Diablo-D3its not because of salesAug 14 11:46
Diablo-D3its because they replaced itAug 14 11:46
Diablo-D37's replacement will probably also be midoriAug 14 11:46
Diablo-D3they're going with a unified OS much like apple did with osx and iphone osAug 14 11:47
Diablo-D3cubezzz: so yeah, you might as well just buy a coolscan 5000Aug 14 11:47
Diablo-D3cubezzz: its your only real optionAug 14 11:47
schestowitzIt's vapourware, Diablo-D3 Aug 14 11:47
Diablo-D3schestowitz: ahem, not reallyAug 14 11:48
schestowitzYou're peddling the vapourAug 14 11:48
schestowitzYes, reallyAug 14 11:48
schestowitzHow many lines of code?Aug 14 11:48
schestowitzTell me...Aug 14 11:48
Diablo-D3an iso I have around here somewhere says otherwise.Aug 14 11:48
schestowitzIt's like that so-called killer browserAug 14 11:48
schestowitzBesides, the existence of such a replacement was denied as early as last yearAug 14 11:48
schestowitzSo I think you're wrong here. Ask people who watch the Vole more closelyAug 14 11:48
Diablo-D3schestowitz: dude, I know people who work deep in microsoftAug 14 11:49
Diablo-D3they _are_ working on new stuff thats based on the singularity research projectAug 14 11:49
Diablo-D3I'm not saying that actually means anything: microsoft still sucksAug 14 11:49
Diablo-D3but people are still going to work and getting paychecks thereAug 14 11:49
Diablo-D3cubezzz: btw, no matter what you buy, buy a copy of vuescanAug 14 11:50
Diablo-D3cubezzz: it makes all scanners work 100x less shittyAug 14 11:50
MinceRone winmo was enough for a lifetimeAug 14 11:50
Diablo-D3cubezzz: vuescan works on linux too (although what it supports is up to the scanner manufacturer)Aug 14 11:50
MinceRwhat it does is multitasking and installing any apps... what it doesn't do is reliable phone capability, PIM functions, reliable alarms, etc.Aug 14 11:50
Diablo-D3MinceR: that isnt itAug 14 11:51
MinceRsomeone should finally come up with a mobile OS that doesn't suckAug 14 11:51
Diablo-D3winmo phones, hardwarewise, suckAug 14 11:51
MinceRi disagree about thatAug 14 11:51
Diablo-D3they're grossly inferior to current gen android phonesAug 14 11:51
MinceRandroid sucks tooAug 14 11:51
Diablo-D3androis not too badAug 14 11:51
MinceRthey don't even have a usable calendar appAug 14 11:52
Diablo-D3its better than iphone osAug 14 11:52
MinceRand the htc dream has a digital compass and what can you use it for? a crappy street view gimmick.Aug 14 11:52
MinceReverything is better than hypePhone osAug 14 11:52
Diablo-D3uh, MinceRAug 14 11:52
Diablo-D3you do realize why those phones have that, and the 3gs has it, right?\Aug 14 11:52
MinceRi realize what i'd use it forAug 14 11:53
Diablo-D3it comes with the GPS chip they're using and its used to enhance GPSAug 14 11:53
MinceRwell, android doesn't seem to enhance it muchAug 14 11:53
Diablo-D3they don't make GPS chips without the magnetic compass anymoreAug 14 11:53
MinceRall it offers is that google maps knows where you areAug 14 11:53
Diablo-D3so all next gen stuff has itAug 14 11:53
Diablo-D3its because GPS chips are meant for GPS devicesAug 14 11:54
Diablo-D3like the kind you have in your carAug 14 11:54
MinceRi haven't yet found any gps device that can do both TCM and digital compass, btwAug 14 11:54
MinceRbbl, meetingAug 14 11:54
schestowitzI installed Vistas 7 RC1 on my Acer Aspire 7220, with these isues:Aug 14 11:54
schestowitz- 1400x900 flatscreen was recognized as a 800x600 CRT;Aug 14 11:54
schestowitz- Nvidia Geoforce 7000M GPU was recognized as a standard VGA adapter;Aug 14 11:54
schestowitz- Nvidia nForce Ethetnet adapter was not recognized at all;Aug 14 11:54
schestowitz- Atheros PCI WLAN adapter was not recognized at all.Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzI downloaded the Vista drivers from the Acer website on my Fedora 10Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzmachine (Pleunix) and copied them to a USB thumbdrive. Installed them onAug 14 11:54
schestowitzVista 7. However I was still unable to make any connection (neitherAug 14 11:54
schestowitzwired nor wireless) to "the Internet".Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzVista 7 didn't understood that my Sitecom (Linux) wirelessAug 14 11:54
schestowitzrouter/firewall/switch/nat only serves as a access point and switchAug 14 11:54
schestowitzbehind another router. That is obviously too complicated for Vista 7.Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzAfter 12 hours I gave up and re-installed Ubuntu 9.04 on that machine.Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzMy final conclusion: Vista 7 is even worst that Vista if it's notAug 14 11:54
schestowitzpreinstalled.Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzI am wondering if people are stupid enough to pay for that piece ofAug 14 11:54
schestowitzjunkware.Aug 14 11:54
schestowitzCheersAug 14 11:54
schestowitz///////////from MartiAug 14 11:54
Diablo-D3MinceR: its used to tell which direction your car is headed, thats allAug 14 11:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Box Shows Support Market Development Around Free Software http://ping.fm/Q6DPOAug 14 12:01
trmancohttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XUmI7vpDsmQ/SoPIdeN1mlI/AAAAAAAAAJQ/ZeV0dxG37_0/s1600-h/GChromeOS_1_03.jpgAug 14 12:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Carries on Gaining Fast in Servers http://ping.fm/2GlLlAug 14 12:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Dunno why but this diff to pulse client conf made me smile (the shm bit) http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/56650Aug 14 12:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux 2.6.31 Reaches Sixth Release Candidate http://ping.fm/6OglXAug 14 12:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Evaluation of SELinux http://ping.fm/Zoi2XAug 14 12:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Quake Live Adds GNU/Linux Support http://ping.fm/CdSXqAug 14 12:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Powerful CLI (Terminal) Applications for GNU/Linux: an Overview http://ping.fm/akYQOAug 14 12:13
schestowitztrmanco: close button looks like FistahAug 14 12:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Gets More 3-D Acceleration http://ping.fm/Lou5EAug 14 12:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Amarok Gains Amarok Integration http://ping.fm/jsq7hAug 14 12:19
trmancoit might be fakeAug 14 12:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu 9.10 Reaches Fourth Alpha http://ping.fm/cf5I6Aug 14 12:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Mint 7 with Xfce Gets Good Review http://ping.fm/q7oDDAug 14 12:27
schestowitztrmanco: likely, given previous 'leaks'Aug 14 12:28
schestowitzBut real ones must arrive at some tageAug 14 12:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Maximum PC Reviews the Linux-based (and hackable) Chumby http://ping.fm/MMKA4Aug 14 12:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ZaReason Makes More GNU/Linux Sub-notebooks Available http://ping.fm/8gGeXAug 14 12:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software for PVRs Gets Millions in Funding http://ping.fm/JL3vOAug 14 12:44
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Photographers Fight Police Abuse http://ping.fm/cWpP0Aug 14 12:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Amazon Shows Vendor Lock-in in Literature http://ping.fm/oJYRtAug 14 12:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] print out and keep at all times when in public with camera http://bit.ly/HpiR8Aug 14 12:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Staff Fights Intellectual Monopolies on Literature http://ping.fm/31N28 http://ping.fm/CRobEAug 14 12:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Neo-Colonialist Copyright Police Insists on Coming http://ping.fm/Rtk6J http://ping.fm/BItFp http://ping.fm/59dlAAug 14 12:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Attempt to Ban Competition & Back-up Using New Laws http://ping.fm/TcQBU http://ping.fm/ZbROSAug 14 13:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patent Scum Claims to be Speaking on Behalf of Whole State http://ping.fm/Ewl0cAug 14 13:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Burning Man Accused by the EFF for Abusing Art http://ping.fm/isdqSAug 14 13:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Doesn't Give a Bleep About Software Patents http://ping.fm/9w1rQAug 14 13:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Windows Mobile Dead in the Water, Maybe to be Cancelled http://ping.fm/tug9hAug 14 13:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 Now in RC http://ping.fm/jYp2ZAug 14 13:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF Unaffected by XML Suit http://ping.fm/Q21JEAug 14 13:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Penalised $300,000,000 http://ping.fm/8xWYxAug 14 13:16
schestowitzTed Turner says media has no business showing American Flag < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPIA95SLv6g&feature=related >Aug 14 13:33
schestowitzCharlie Rose - Ted Turner < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mys_AQjM4U0&NR=1&feature=fvwp >Aug 14 13:39
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] ACTA at HAR2009 on Sat at 3pm by FFII working group leader Ante Wessels: http://bit.ly/1QFt30 #har2009Aug 14 13:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz Open Document *Foundation* is marbux's weird thing. Open Document *Fellowship* is the real group.Aug 14 14:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @woosang The 5 Creepiest Sex Scenes in Comics http://su.pr/6qe8FR *splutter*Aug 14 14:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: I know, but others are saying the same thing (Sean Kerner for example)Aug 14 14:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Review of Vista 7 and the Uncertain Future of Windows http://ping.fm/Gpk7aAug 14 14:52
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MinceRDiablo-D3: it's more significant when used on foot. also, i didn't really see android as being designed with car navigation in mind.Aug 14 15:15
Diablo-D3MinceR: you know what I mean thoughAug 14 15:15
Diablo-D3its that all these chips are being produced for thoseAug 14 15:15
MinceR(another thing i missed was a proper Agenda/Today view -- i can't see how they could miss that)Aug 14 15:15
Diablo-D3so all the manufs fazed out the much cheaper ones used in cell phonesAug 14 15:15
MinceRwell, i did a little searching and i've seen 2 kinds of more serious GPS unitsAug 14 15:15
Diablo-D3so apple and android manufs get the magnetic compass no matter if they want it or notAug 14 15:16
MinceRthe ones for car navigation had traffic avoidance (TCM) but no compassAug 14 15:16
MinceRthe ones for hunting, hiking, geocaching and stuff like that had compass and barometer but no traffic avoidance (TCM)Aug 14 15:16
MinceRthese GPS chips with compass are new stuff, aren't they?Aug 14 15:16
Diablo-D3mildlyAug 14 15:17
Diablo-D3its been in the past gen or twoAug 14 15:17
MinceRmaybe i should wait with buying a GPS thenAug 14 15:17
MinceR:)Aug 14 15:17
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Diablo-D3well, new 3gs iphones have it, and some android phones have itAug 14 15:17
Diablo-D3so instant on foot gps.Aug 14 15:17
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Balrogschestowitz: those using PACER should take a look at this: https://www.recapthelaw.org/Aug 14 15:26
twitterLOL, Marti might have done better with Sarge.  -> schestowitz: I installed Vistas 7 RC1 on my Acer Aspire 7220, with these isues ...Aug 14 15:29
twitterGot a link for that?Aug 14 15:29
twitterhow much has changed between RC1 and RTM?Aug 14 15:30
schestowitzNot sureAug 14 15:33
schestowitzBalrog: e-mail this to pj2#groklawAug 14 15:34
schestowitzShe'd appreciate it, I thinkAug 14 15:34
BalrogAll right.Aug 14 15:36
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Microsoft Crowd Uses the Word Verdict to Throw FUD at ODF, More Spin Comes from Denmark http://ping.fm/MWQ2sAug 14 16:02
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schestowitzAP Almost Gets Something Right... But Then Gets It Wrong < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090813/1927355876.shtml >Aug 14 16:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell’s New Ads Against Red Hat http://ping.fm/KaM51Aug 14 16:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Time to Say Bye-Bye to Google Knol?" http://ping.fm/YpgLA Remember it?? The so-called Wikipedia killer?Aug 14 16:23
schestowitzLenovo recalls faulty Thinkpad batteries < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1529234/lenovo-recalls-faulty-thinkpad-batteries >Aug 14 16:23
schestowitzPriest used webcam to groom Aussie detectives < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1529211/priest-webcam-groom-aussie-detectives >Aug 14 16:24
schestowitz"The IBM AS/400 was used by him and select other employees to print out fake account statements. What they would do was punch in fake trades on the IBM AS/400 and enter share prices that would square with his consistent but imaginary returns on the billions that customers entrusted to his firm." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1529209/an-as-400-critical-madoff-ponzi-schemeAug 14 16:25
Diablo-D3ironicAug 14 16:26
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Diablo-D3during ww2 IBM sold calculators to hitler to keep track of the jewsAug 14 16:27
Diablo-D3many years later, a jew uses a gigantic calculator to keep track of.... somethingAug 14 16:27
MinceRi wonder why did Inq only try to call the tech support line and not some sort of PR line.Aug 14 16:32
schestowitzIBM is a businessAug 14 16:35
schestowitzIt sells stuffAug 14 16:36
schestowitzIf your company sells something, then they say it's good for societyAug 14 16:36
schestowitzThe Bush dynasty sold parts of weapons to the Nazis tooAug 14 16:36
schestowitzBut that's another story. You could go in talking about arms that were given to the Taliban and Iraq (guess by who?).Aug 14 16:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the direction finder you never knew how much you needed until you saw it http://ruletheweb.co.uk/pubstop/Aug 14 16:38
schestowitzIt is generally a good example to show people that they *should* care about corporations' effects on the environment, politics, social lives, etc.Aug 14 16:39
schestowitzThis is kitschy: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/8197159.stmAug 14 16:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Pirate [sic] Party UK is gaining 100 members per hour right now. It's about reform of intellectual monopolies, not looting,Aug 14 16:44
schestowitzGah! "Nuke-nobbler raygun 747 scores 'surrogate' test success"Aug 14 16:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Watch how investment in Boeing helps towards destruction of our race with nuclear weaponry < http://ping.fm/jNQYz >Aug 14 16:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] you must view source on this page. http://www.fujinonbinos.com/ EIGHT POINT DAMN YOU!Aug 14 16:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Little scandal in the Open Rights Group... privacy concerns overplayed by the freedom-hostile Orlowski, as usual.Aug 14 16:49
schestowitzNovell is killing PlateSpin, still.. http://www.vancouversun.com/template+taking+time/829302/story.htmlAug 14 17:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz orlowski's been called out on one lie already. watch for no correction whatsoever.Aug 14 17:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz the greens have stated the accusations are complete lies as well btw.Aug 14 17:15
schestowitzhttp://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=447531 "Microsoft Corp. on Wednesday defended its right to make contributions to open-source software while also enforcing its patents when it wants to extract royalty payments for the technology's use by other firms."Aug 14 17:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: why would Orlowski correct anything for those damn "freetards" he loves do much? ;-) Thumbs down to El RegAug 14 17:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Getting ready to head to see @tonywhitmore @ciemon @lauracowen and @daviey for another fun packed Ubuntu UK Podcast recording @uupcAug 14 17:35
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schestowitzWhoa. http://www.google.com/search?q=site:twitter.com+&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=enAug 14 17:49
schestowitz130 milion pages indexedAug 14 17:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] PACER users - free the law for all! https://www.recapthelaw.org/Aug 14 17:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nice way to announce vacation. "I'm away from any sort of keyboard from now until the 28th." http://ping.fm/kMW8dAug 14 17:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: West fights for democracy, justice and marital rape in Afghanistan http://notnews.today.com/?p=600Aug 14 17:56
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schestowitzMitsubishi iMiEV five-door e-car < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/14/review_e_car_mitsubishi_imiev/ >Aug 14 18:02
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Workers lifted my car, painted yellow lines under it and put it down... then the wardens came and towed it away" http://ping.fm/3YcYI?85Aug 14 18:05
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wispygalaxyhey everyone :)Aug 14 18:20
wispygalaxythe room's not too busy today...Aug 14 18:20
schestowitzHeyAug 14 18:21
wispygalaxyhi roy!Aug 14 18:22
wispygalaxyhow's everythingAug 14 18:22
wispygalaxyi have to go back to school a week from sunday :(Aug 14 18:23
schestowitzYeah, well... for most people it's the end of some vacationAug 14 18:23
wispygalaxyso i'm going shopping tomorrow for stuffAug 14 18:23
wispygalaxynoooo i luv vacation :PAug 14 18:23
wispygalaxyi have to go to the beach one more time before summer endsAug 14 18:24
wispygalaxyi didn't go while i was in germanyAug 14 18:24
schestowitzTan doesn't last longAug 14 18:24
wispygalaxyi got a great tan so farAug 14 18:25
schestowitz Kamp mod Microsoftskatten http://phk.freebsd.dk/MicrosoftSkat/Aug 14 18:25
schestowitzwispygalaxy: send us photos then ! :-pAug 14 18:26
wispygalaxyhaha ;)Aug 14 18:26
ThistleWebrofl all I see is Microsoft scatAug 14 18:26
wispygalaxythanks for the link, royAug 14 18:26
ThistleWebkinda appropriate methinksAug 14 18:26
ThistleWebI love the DanesAug 14 18:27
wispygalaxyi'd like to go to denmarkAug 14 18:27
schestowitzIs New Scientist down? http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327206.300-robots-to-get-their-own-operating-system.htmlAug 14 18:28
ThistleWebI'm guessing Skat in Danish does not mean the same as scat in EnglishAug 14 18:28
wispygalaxyrobotOS, that's cuteAug 14 18:28
wispygalaxylol, ThistleWebAug 14 18:28
ThistleWebmind you, if it's connected to freebsd, then maybe it doesAug 14 18:29
schestowitzSo the URL works for you?Aug 14 18:30
schestowitzHeh. Now I can't even reach their serverAug 14 18:31
schestowitzIt gets worseAug 14 18:31
ThistleWebthe MS scat link works for me if thats who you meantAug 14 18:31
schestowitzNice to know even VERY large sites can't maintain excellent uptimeAug 14 18:31
ThistleWebI saw the story on slashdot earlierAug 14 18:31
wispygalaxysry roy, the newscientist link doesn't load for meAug 14 18:31
schestowitzSame here. I put it in BN days ago, but.Aug 14 18:31
schestowitzwispygalaxy: new scientist needs new plans thenAug 14 18:32
ThistleWebnor meAug 14 18:32
wispygalaxyyes royAug 14 18:32
ThistleWebwindows server lolAug 14 18:32
wispygalaxyewwwAug 14 18:32
schestowitzIs it... let's seeAug 14 18:32
ThistleWebthe solution to all their problemsAug 14 18:32
ThistleWebor cause of themAug 14 18:32
wispygalaxyi hear that linux job opportunities are upAug 14 18:33
wispygalaxythat's good news for me :)Aug 14 18:33
schestowitzhttp://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=newscientist.comAug 14 18:33
schestowitzIt runs GNU/LinuxAug 14 18:33
ThistleWebI spotted a linux snr network admin job the other day. but it's way above my skillsAug 14 18:33
schestowitzwispygalaxy: true, true...Aug 14 18:33
schestowitzTry GoogleAug 14 18:33
wispygalaxyi'm still learning, need more practiceAug 14 18:33
wispygalaxywhat languages should i learn?Aug 14 18:33
schestowitzThistleWeb: grow a beard, be called "senior"Aug 14 18:33
schestowitzwispygalaxy: depends on jpbAug 14 18:34
ThistleWebI was thinking of practice Spanish and applying for dual nationalityAug 14 18:34
ThistleWebdepends what you want to doAug 14 18:34
wispygalaxyspanish is good to learnAug 14 18:34
wispygalaxyok roy, i guess i'll learn bash or something like thatAug 14 18:34
schestowitzThistleWeb misled us... saying the scientists would choose Windows... :-pAug 14 18:34
ThistleWebapparently Java is pretty much king on serversAug 14 18:34
schestowitzThistleWeb: job market's horrible in SPainAug 14 18:35
wispygalaxygood, i'm learning javaAug 14 18:35
schestowitzConstruction, bricks and farming..Aug 14 18:35
wispygalaxyyes, high unemployment in spainAug 14 18:35
schestowitzSO I hear from a Spanish mateAug 14 18:35
wispygalaxylike 19% i think?Aug 14 18:35
ThistleWebI kinda like the sound of ruby on rails after listening the FLOSS weekly interviewAug 14 18:35
schestowitzWow. 19% is very highAug 14 18:35
schestowitzUS doesn't state its ownAug 14 18:35
ThistleWebphp / mysql is HUGE in web devAug 14 18:36
schestowitzThey keep changing definitionsAug 14 18:36
wispygalaxyi feel bad for themAug 14 18:36
ThistleWebI speak a little spanish but not muchAug 14 18:36
wispygalaxythen there is underemployementAug 14 18:36
schestowitzWe're an overpopulated planetAug 14 18:36
schestowitzIt's no taboo to say itAug 14 18:36
wispygalaxyuh ohAug 14 18:36
schestowitzBirth control is needed nowAug 14 18:36
ThistleWebdonde esta el banio is a handy one when you have a full bladder and can;'t see a looAug 14 18:36
wispygalaxyhahaAug 14 18:37
ThistleWebor the inbetween one, dos cervesas por favorAug 14 18:37
schestowitzSee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mys_AQjM4U0Aug 14 18:37
ThistleWebto help you get intot he state where your bladder needs urgent attentionAug 14 18:37
schestowitzTed Turner on Charlie Rose's showAug 14 18:37
schestowitzHe also speaks about global warming and stuff he was skeptic aboutAug 14 18:37
schestowitzPOpulation excesssAug 14 18:38
wispygalaxyi've seen charlie rose a couple of timesAug 14 18:38
wispygalaxypbs is not on my TV anymore...Aug 14 18:38
wispygalaxycomcast is now making us get a box to see certain channelsAug 14 18:38
ThistleWeblanguage wise I wouldn't waste time learning anything proprietary or anything tied to one platformAug 14 18:39
wispygalaxyno .NET for me or C#Aug 14 18:39
ThistleWebpython is apparently a great language for flexability, cross platform, multi-toolkits and easy to learnAug 14 18:39
schestowitzNor for anyone..Aug 14 18:39
ThistleWebmore and more apps seem to be built in python, desktop and web appsAug 14 18:40
wispygalaxyi'm hearing good stuff about the open languagesAug 14 18:40
wispygalaxypython is good for beginners, right?Aug 14 18:40
schestowitzAmarok took down xine when it crahedAug 14 18:40
ThistleWebeven if you only build for linux, an additional build for windows or osx would be simpleAug 14 18:40
schestowitzAnyway to repair this without restarting the DE?Aug 14 18:40
ThistleWebapparently yesAug 14 18:40
ThistleWebschestowitz: no ideaAug 14 18:40
wispygalaxycross-platform is important these days.. that's why virtualization is growingAug 14 18:41
schestowitzAudio servers can be annoyingfAug 14 18:41
wispygalaxypoor amarok lolAug 14 18:41
ThistleWebya have to look at resources for learning too, and python apparently shines there tooAug 14 18:41
wispygalaxygoogle uses it a lotAug 14 18:41
ThistleWebtutorials etcAug 14 18:41
wispygalaxythere are too many old (at least 10 years) visual basic books at my local libraryAug 14 18:42
wispygalaxythere are some java, perl, and c++ booksAug 14 18:42
schestowitzYou can use it onlineAug 14 18:42
ThistleWebI like how python can build with a variety of tool kits, so the final end product can fit naturally into GTK, QT, OSX, Win32 etc and be nativeAug 14 18:43
schestowitzWith a shell  and editorsAug 14 18:43
wispygalaxyroy, do you know VB?Aug 14 18:43
schestowitzBooks are old and you can't take them with you like the saving of filesAug 14 18:43
schestowitzYou can't try code for yourself, eitherAug 14 18:43
ThistleWebI guess that can also happen with other languages tooAug 14 18:43
schestowitzPeople sttil cling onto limitations of booksAug 14 18:43
wispygalaxypython is designed wellAug 14 18:43
wispygalaxyonline tutorials are great, they update frequentlyAug 14 18:43
schestowitzBut, wispygalaxy, you're too young to fall for the illusion that books are betterAug 14 18:43
wispygalaxybut i hate reading from a computer screenAug 14 18:44
schestowitzWe ought to be a paperless generationAug 14 18:44
ThistleWebit depends on where you want to codeAug 14 18:44
schestowitzAlso working via wiresAug 14 18:44
wispygalaxypaper kills trees :(Aug 14 18:44
wispygalaxyand wirelessAug 14 18:44
wispygalaxy;)Aug 14 18:44
ThistleWebif you wanna code web apps like drupal or wordpress php is kingAug 14 18:44
schestowitzwispygalaxy: it's just syntaxAug 14 18:44
wispygalaxywires are old stuffAug 14 18:44
schestowitzI could do some VB given the syntaxAug 14 18:44
wispygalaxyi was interested in php a while backAug 14 18:44
schestowitzBut principles count, not languageAug 14 18:44
wispygalaxybut i'm learning SQL nowAug 14 18:44
wispygalaxyyou love java, right royAug 14 18:45
ThistleWebthe reason most web apps are in php is that many more peeps know php, so there's no shortage of potential helpAug 14 18:45
schestowitzwispygalaxy: wireless too can probably kill brain cellsAug 14 18:45
wispygalaxyyikesAug 14 18:45
wispygalaxybut it's less clutter :PAug 14 18:45
schestowitzOr make them expand too fast and divide too muchAug 14 18:45
ThistleWebnot that it's the best for the jobAug 14 18:45
wispygalaxyphp has a good communityAug 14 18:45
schestowitzUSSR has good communismAug 14 18:46
ThistleWeblisten to the ruby on rails interview on floss weeklyAug 14 18:46
wispygalaxywho knows ruby here?Aug 14 18:46
wispygalaxyTW, and who else?Aug 14 18:46
ThistleWebI dont know any languages, but I have tried to look into trying to learn some from time to timeAug 14 18:47
wispygalaxyoh okAug 14 18:47
ThistleWebI like drupal, so knowing php would be very helpfulAug 14 18:47
schestowitzRavi is sort of almost just about back... http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/08/kde-43-released-with-incremental.htmlAug 14 18:47
ThistleWebruby on rails sounds very interesting by that interviewAug 14 18:48
ThistleWebI keep hearing good stuff about pythonAug 14 18:48
wispygalaxymy teachers said that it is good that i know a language- businesses are using computers more and more in analyzing dataAug 14 18:48
schestowitzFLOSS Weekly, ThistleWeb ?Aug 14 18:48
schestowitzHDD?Aug 14 18:48
ThistleWebschestowitz: yesAug 14 18:48
schestowitzDHHAug 14 18:48
schestowitzThistleWeb: he's more pretentious than LinusAug 14 18:48
wispygalaxygo for ruby, i hear it's good tooAug 14 18:48
ThistleWebleo?Aug 14 18:49
schestowitzI only use RubyAug 14 18:49
wispygalaxylinus had a beef with alan cox, i hearAug 14 18:49
schestowitzThistleWeb: no, DavidAug 14 18:49
ThistleWebkAug 14 18:49
schestowitzLeo is cool.Aug 14 18:49
ThistleWebI think that interview was just randall and himAug 14 18:49
ThistleWeboffhandAug 14 18:49
ThistleWebI never knew what ruby was or ruby on rails, before that interviewAug 14 18:50
wispygalaxyrail is the framework, am i right?Aug 14 18:51
wispygalaxyrails*Aug 14 18:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] lambeth council gets creative http://is.gd/2gWwg (warning: Daily Mail)Aug 14 18:51
ThistleWebmy understanding is that there are a lot of defaults set up, so you can refer to them, without having to define themAug 14 18:51
wispygalaxyroy, what did i miss while i was gone?Aug 14 18:51
wispygalaxyon vacation, i meanAug 14 18:52
ThistleWeblike the name of the primary key in the database will always be the sameAug 14 18:52
wispygalaxyyes, that is convenient TWAug 14 18:52
ThistleWebwith RoR you know that, so you can just get on with it, where others like php allow devs to name their own, which makes integration dificultAug 14 18:52
ThistleWebor can doAug 14 18:52
ThistleWebhe sets those defaultsAug 14 18:53
ThistleWebthose are the railsAug 14 18:53
ThistleWebat first I thought that would be a bad thing, but during that interview I turned my opinions round, to thinking that could be a good thingAug 14 18:53
wispygalaxyall the work is done for you on rails, i see :)Aug 14 18:53
schestowitzWhat a bunch of pillocks. They tested SSDs on 'operating systems', but left Linux out of the benchmark... http://features.techworld.com/storage/108317/which-operating-system-is-best-for-ssds/Aug 14 18:54
ThistleWebthe downside is that as long as you're doing normal stuff, RoR is great, but if you want to start going beyond that, RoR may hold you backAug 14 18:54
ThistleWebkinda, its the defining of things that's done for youAug 14 18:54
schestowitzwispygalaxy: you missed not muchAug 14 18:54
schestowitzNo drama in BNlandAug 14 18:54
wispygalaxytrolls not bugging you?Aug 14 18:55
wispygalaxygood :)Aug 14 18:55
ThistleWebso you can just refer to the defined objectAug 14 18:55
wispygalaxyror is good for simple stuff?Aug 14 18:55
ThistleWebrather than have to spend time defining it yourself every timeAug 14 18:55
wispygalaxyi like that TWAug 14 18:55
schestowitzRoR is hailed by  a friend from MancAug 14 18:55
ThistleWebwell, that's maybe harsh but yesAug 14 18:55
schestowitzIt's good for building apps fastAug 14 18:55
schestowitzJust like PHP/MySQL, only betterAug 14 18:55
schestowitzIf the claims are trueAug 14 18:56
ThistleWebI was amazed at what sites were RoRAug 14 18:56
ThistleWebtwitterAug 14 18:56
schestowitzYesAug 14 18:56
schestowitzScales badlyAug 14 18:56
schestowitzFor other reasonsAug 14 18:56
schestowitzPollingAug 14 18:56
schestowitzToo many connectionsAug 14 18:56
wispygalaxytwitter uses RoR?Aug 14 18:56
schestowitzSame issues in Digg.comAug 14 18:56
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yesAug 14 18:56
wispygalaxycoolAug 14 18:56
schestowitzbrbAug 14 18:56
ThistleWebschestowitz: apparently that's not the case anymore, apparently is scales fine nowAug 14 18:56
wispygalaxyRoR is miles ahead of .NET, we can agree on that hahaAug 14 18:57
ThistleWebgoing by that interview, RoR got a justified, but bad name early on and has found it hard to shift, even though it's a totally different beast nowAug 14 18:57
ThistleWeburbandictionary is RoR tooAug 14 18:57
wispygalaxyheh i discovered urbandictionary 5 years agoAug 14 18:57
ThistleWeblook on the ror siteAug 14 18:58
*Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Aug 14 18:58
schestowitzThistleWeb: usually, yesAug 14 18:58
schestowitzThey changed something like 3 months agoAug 14 18:58
ThistleWebthey have a page of sites that are built on RoRAug 14 18:58
schestowitzBut I had already ditched them cause of their scalability issuesAug 14 18:58
wispygalaxyi discovered urbandictionary from a kid in my class who threatened to define his friend on that siteAug 14 18:58
schestowitzShame really... their server issues lost me as a user for goodAug 14 18:58
ThistleWeblike I said, I'm only going by that interviewAug 14 18:59
schestowitzwispygalaxy: common prankAug 14 18:59
wispygalaxyhaha but they were playing aroundAug 14 18:59
wispygalaxyurbandictionary is great for looking up internet lingoAug 14 19:00
wispygalaxyi don't keep up with memes, it's a waste of timeAug 14 19:00
wispygalaxyso i look them up on urbandictionary if i get confusedAug 14 19:01
ThistleWebI'm kinda partial to drupal for sites though, so I see others through that lensAug 14 19:01
schestowitzI've never used DrupalAug 14 19:01
schestowitzI used many CMSes, but never DrupalAug 14 19:01
ThistleWebit's rare that I see a site that I reckon couldn't be built in DrupalAug 14 19:01
ThistleWebdrupal is awesomeAug 14 19:01
ThistleWebnot perfect by any stretch, but it's awesomeAug 14 19:02
schestowitzIt would serve well for content managementAug 14 19:02
schestowitzBN now has a Wiki for fuild structureAug 14 19:02
ThistleWebyeah, the range of content typse is amazingAug 14 19:02
schestowitzwispygalaxy: back around March you said you might help with Comes exhibitsAug 14 19:02
schestowitzI still have that written down among Comes notesAug 14 19:02
wispygalaxyyeah, i think soAug 14 19:03
schestowitzThistleWeb: PHP-Nuke is good too, but not maintained nowAug 14 19:03
wispygalaxyi'll try getting around to that, once i go back to schoolAug 14 19:03
ThistleWebyeah I heard enough about nuke to avoid itAug 14 19:03
wispygalaxyi know wallclimber is helping tooAug 14 19:03
schestowitzNext up, Jason's site (QUOTES in ME AND UBUNTU) I need to carry on from "Steve Winfield" onwardsAug 14 19:04
wispygalaxythe digg gang (wallclimber, me, roy) is here :PAug 14 19:04
schestowitzThere's lots of more material to pick from therAug 14 19:04
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yeah, the ladies seem to help the most around here :-)Aug 14 19:04
schestowitzAnd then there's PJ...Aug 14 19:04
wispygalaxywell, we like helping you ;)Aug 14 19:04
wispygalaxysince you are so nice to us...Aug 14 19:05
schestowitzMe? Nnnnoooo.Aug 14 19:05
wispygalaxyroy, don't be so bashful hahaAug 14 19:05
wispygalaxygirl power!Aug 14 19:05
wispygalaxyPJ is coolAug 14 19:05
schestowitzI think she's having server issuesAug 14 19:06
schestowitzAlthough it's resolved, they sayAug 14 19:06
wispygalaxyhow can she dish out the dirt then?!Aug 14 19:06
schestowitzGroklaw has slown down since DecemberAug 14 19:06
schestowitzGroklaw has many active membersAug 14 19:06
schestowitzThey share it using comments and E-mailAug 14 19:06
schestowitzNot IRC thereAug 14 19:06
schestowitz*NoAug 14 19:06
wispygalaxyIRC is fastAug 14 19:06
wispygalaxyusenet can slow down conversations at timesAug 14 19:07
ThistleWebschestowitz: I assume you saw the BBC article about MS questioning the maths behind Firefox download numbersAug 14 19:07
wispygalaxyi'll try to head back to Comp.os.linux.advocacy soon, thoughAug 14 19:07
wispygalaxyMS is just bitching again lolAug 14 19:07
ThistleWebaka "pot meets kettle"Aug 14 19:07
wispygalaxythey are hatin' on OSSAug 14 19:08
ThistleWebactually I think it was the guardianAug 14 19:08
ThistleWebhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/aug/13/microsoft-internetAug 14 19:09
wispygalaxythanks, TWAug 14 19:10
ThistleWebnpAug 14 19:10
ThistleWebyou know the backlash against IE6 and MS announcing they will continue to support it until 2014.....if it followed standards this wouldn't be a story, as all apps that peeps use would work in any browserAug 14 19:11
ThistleWebMS seem quiet on that oneAug 14 19:11
wispygalaxyie6 is a disasterAug 14 19:11
wispygalaxyseriously, who do people torture themselves like that?!Aug 14 19:12
wispygalaxywhy*Aug 14 19:12
schestowitzThistleWeb: I didn't see itAug 14 19:12
ThistleWeball the while trumpeting how IE8 is more standards compliant than any other browser, and pointing peeps to the "IE get the facts" propagandaAug 14 19:12
schestowitzBut given that they cite MSBBC staff like Highfield on both sides, it would be expectedAug 14 19:12
schestowitzhttp://www.artfagcity.com/2009/08/12/img-mgmt-the-nine-eyes-of-google-street-view/Aug 14 19:12
ThistleWebthere's a story about MS continueing support of IE6 despite the developer backlashAug 14 19:13
schestowitzIE6 is so alien that compatibility nightmares were madeAug 14 19:13
ThistleWebhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8196242.stmAug 14 19:13
schestowitzSome things were made dependent on a browser from another planetAug 14 19:13
*DaemonFC (i=DaemonFC@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 19:13
schestowitzThistleWeb: "Maggie Shiels  "Enough saidAug 14 19:13
ThistleWebtheir answer "Microsoft would prefer people to move to IE8"Aug 14 19:14
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/06/zombies-are-a-windows-problem/Aug 14 19:14
wispygalaxyi guess MS doesn't care about developers this time :PAug 14 19:14
MinceRthey never didAug 14 19:14
ThistleWeb"We want people to have the best experience they can have on Microsoft software," said Ms Barzdukas.Aug 14 19:14
schestowitzDevelopers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers  Developers   [just not Web Developers  ]Aug 14 19:14
MinceRthey don't even know what developers areAug 14 19:14
ThistleWebkey part "on Microsoft software"Aug 14 19:14
MinceRballmer probably confuses them with marketers and lawyersAug 14 19:14
wispygalaxygetting involved with MS technologies will give anyone a headacheAug 14 19:15
DaemonFCsure they areAug 14 19:15
schestowitzShiels is always doing those nasty Microsoft advertsAug 14 19:15
DaemonFCit's all about .Net anymoreAug 14 19:15
schestowitzRory is anotherAug 14 19:15
ThistleWebI do often think MS employs more lawyers, marketers and lobbyists than developersAug 14 19:15
DaemonFCmore an more programs I run into depend on the .Net runtimesAug 14 19:15
wispygalaxyMS should stop the astroturfing and focus on the technology...Aug 14 19:16
ThistleWebIE6 will hopefully have one positive outcome thoughAug 14 19:16
schestowitzHachamovitch is one of those Microsoft minion who think they were for the "Good Guys"Aug 14 19:16
wispygalaxyIE did make me switch to firefox :)Aug 14 19:16
schestowitzThese people broke the Web deliberatelyAug 14 19:16
schestowitzAnd then they play innocent and mock those who try to restore a standards-based WebAug 14 19:17
wispygalaxyit's funny, because they accuse linux of not following standards and being "messy" with lots of distros and optionsAug 14 19:17
ThistleWebpeeps who were sold on the fantasy of a MS / IE specific app setup have now had years of headaches and are stuck with IE6 without a lot of time and money to build away from it, so they are not likely to build a lockin version of the new apps to replace themAug 14 19:17
ThistleWebthey will build to standards, so the app works on sveral browsersAug 14 19:18
ThistleWebseveral*Aug 14 19:18
ThistleWebwhich means MS lose their lock-inAug 14 19:18
wispygalaxythey can't accept the fact that other platforms are rising in popularityAug 14 19:18
DaemonFCthe only thing I can see that hints at how much Microsoft charges to license PlayReady says $10,000 for each major version of a covered productAug 14 19:18
ThistleWebpeeps who spend years in a box, trying to find a way out of it, don't build a new box to get intoAug 14 19:18
DaemonFCI still have no idea how much these TV stations and movie studios pay for itAug 14 19:19
ThistleWebspecially if the sellers of the new box are the sellers of the old box, using the same promisesAug 14 19:19
wispygalaxynow, it is easy to switch to better OSS technology.  good thing i never learned MS stuff.  i jumped right into javaAug 14 19:19
wispygalaxykids these days are opening their eyes to better stuffAug 14 19:19
ThistleWebJava is apparenty quite nice these daysAug 14 19:19
wispygalaxymy friends either use java or pythonAug 14 19:19
wispygalaxythey don't know VB, C#, etcAug 14 19:20
ThistleWebI've had a little experience as an end user and was NOT impressed in the slightestAug 14 19:20
ThistleWebmaybe it was a bad time for JavaAug 14 19:20
ThistleWebbut it put me offAug 14 19:20
*Xarver (n=quassel@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 19:20
wispygalaxyjava is strong now, it's easy for me- i'm a finance major :PAug 14 19:20
fewalook at this: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/14/1457257/Dell-Says-High-Linux-Netbook-Returns-a-Non-IssueAug 14 19:21
ThistleWebI think of the MS dominated world as a smoke filled room you dont realise you're in, until someone opens a door you never saw and some fresh air gets inAug 14 19:21
wispygalaxyso true hahaAug 14 19:21
schestowitzhttp://www.ghacks.net/2009/08/14/get-to-know-linux-terminology/Aug 14 19:21
ThistleWebafter you get a sniff of real fresh air, you notice the smokeAug 14 19:21
fewaslashdot sides with Microsoft claims in the title even though Dell says they are falseAug 14 19:21
wispygalaxyi was so complacent with XP and ie6 until i saw ubuntuAug 14 19:21
ThistleWebyou notice that you're coughing a lotAug 14 19:21
wispygalaxyi never looked backAug 14 19:21
fewawho would have the actual numbers?Aug 14 19:21
ThistleWebbut after you've stepped outside and experienced real fresh air, you don't want to step back insideAug 14 19:22
wispygalaxyi never believed the return rate story, bunch of BS to scare people form LinuxAug 14 19:22
wispygalaxyfrom*Aug 14 19:22
schestowitzfewa: well, it's /.Aug 14 19:22
schestowitzIt's not a FOSS siteAug 14 19:22
ThistleWebI reckon plenty of peeps have been miss sold netbooksAug 14 19:23
schestowitzRun by marketers of companiesAug 14 19:23
wispygalaxyOss and choice are a breath of fresh air!Aug 14 19:23
ThistleWebsold on the fact that it's a cheaper windows, without the sales staff correcting themAug 14 19:23
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 19:23
schestowitzRussia's authorities investigate thisAug 14 19:23
schestowitzBut Microsoft will get away with another wave of white-collar crimeAug 14 19:23
wispygalaxyno, it's a better windows lolAug 14 19:23
schestowitzThey always doAug 14 19:23
ThistleWebor being told by the sales staff that, if the customer can only afford the cheaper linux version, and would rather get the saleAug 14 19:23
fewaThistleWeb, yeah Asus did a horrible job at distributing LinuxAug 14 19:24
ThistleWebor even peeps being told "it's not windows", then not being willing to learn a different interfaceAug 14 19:24
ThistleWebyep, the choice of distro plays into it tooAug 14 19:24
wispygalaxyi think there should be time spent getting the customer up to speed on the alternatives, people will be put off by unfamiliar apps only if they are not educated on themAug 14 19:24
ThistleWebnetbooks with terrible distros dont helpAug 14 19:24
ThistleWebzandros FFS?Aug 14 19:25
ThistleWebWTF??Aug 14 19:25
DaemonFCI tried gOS out after all, it's not awful, not great eitherAug 14 19:25
ThistleWebI understand ASUS's original ideas, as they pioneered the genreAug 14 19:25
fewaFUCKAug 14 19:25
fewahttp://news.slashdot.org/story/09/08/14/1158247/Firefox-Plugin-Liberates-Paywalled-Court-RecordsAug 14 19:25
wispygalaxyi forgot about gOS, i remember seeing a video on itAug 14 19:25
DaemonFCthere's no 64-bit edition, it did surprise me by playing DVD's thoughAug 14 19:25
fewathat was exactly my ideaAug 14 19:25
fewaI was getting a pacer account for that very reason :PAug 14 19:25
wispygalaxylinux mint is good if you want codecsAug 14 19:25
ThistleWebbut since then, a whole host of different distros now run great on netbooks, most better than what the vendors give youAug 14 19:26
schestowitzBit of good news for fighters against censorship: http://blogs.computerworld.com/14548/green_dam_will_not_be_mandatory_china_saysAug 14 19:26
wispygalaxyubuntu remixAug 14 19:26
schestowitzBut AU become copyright cop at ISP levelAug 14 19:26
ThistleWebI love Linux MintAug 14 19:26
wispygalaxymy friend loves itAug 14 19:26
ThistleWebI keep switching between Mint and CrunchbangAug 14 19:26
wispygalaxyi saw screenshots of crunchbang, looks coolAug 14 19:27
DaemonFC"Perhaps most shocking are items such as the list submitted by D.C. Attorney Ronald L. Drake who decided he wasn't being paid on time by the D.C. schools and thus raised his rates retroactively from $390/hour to $425/hour, submitting as evidence the names, home addresses, ages and social security numbers of 67 children."Aug 14 19:27
wispygalaxyi heard about the Australian censorshipAug 14 19:27
DaemonFCfucking lawyersAug 14 19:27
DaemonFCpardon my french, but that's as low as you can getAug 14 19:27
schestowitzhttp://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090813/1544075868.shtmlAug 14 19:27
wispygalaxylawyers will do anything for moneyAug 14 19:27
schestowitz"There's been a push by people both inside and outside the government to get public court documents out to the public. As it stands now, most court documents can be found via PACER, the court system's own online service, which charges $0.08 per page."Aug 14 19:27
schestowitzhttp://www.zeropaid.com/news/86819/australian-law-proposal-to-turn-isps-into-copyright-cops/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/14/australia_copyright_scheme/Aug 14 19:28
schestowitzEruaran: heard about it?Aug 14 19:28
fewathey beat me to itAug 14 19:28
wispygalaxygood, more disclosure is better for the peopleAug 14 19:28
schestowitzMAFIAA ownz you huysAug 14 19:28
schestowitz*guysAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCyeah, court records are expensiveAug 14 19:28
fewahttp://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/14/use-recap-to-bypass-court-document-pacer-paywall/Aug 14 19:28
wispygalaxyi don't listen to mainstream music that much anymoreAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCwhen I had a misdemeanor charge against me, they wouldn't even tell me what the prosecutor submitted as evidence against meAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCI had to buy it for $1 per pageAug 14 19:29
schestowitzwispygalaxy: I'll give you a legal stashAug 14 19:29
ThistleWebI reckon many netbooks are being wrongly sold as cheap laptops, which they're notAug 14 19:29
wispygalaxycc stuff?Aug 14 19:29
schestowitzwispygalaxy: http://sites.google.com/site/sxsw2009torrent/Aug 14 19:29
ThistleWebcreative commonsAug 14 19:29
schestowitzwispygalaxy: freeAug 14 19:29
schestowitz6gbAug 14 19:29
DaemonFCit turned out that the prosecutor had a whole lot of nothing and was trying to coerce me into signing a plea agreementAug 14 19:29
wispygalaxythanks roy, that's so nice of you... :DAug 14 19:29
schestowitzI think just royalty-freeAug 14 19:30
wispygalaxyokAug 14 19:30
wispygalaxyisn't that illegal to not show the evidence to the other side if they ask for it?Aug 14 19:31
schestowitz"Update 3/8/09: The long awaited third torrent is here! It contains over 200 songs that were added to the SXSW website since the initial torrent were posted on Feb 19. The first two torrents are still going strong as well."Aug 14 19:31
wispygalaxyisn't it called 'discovery'?Aug 14 19:31
schestowitzIt's so popular that it's still maintained and updatedAug 14 19:31
DaemonFCI eventually met with the prosecutor and agreed to an agreement where I signed it, but all I got was 3 months of informal probation and $87 in court costsAug 14 19:31
DaemonFCthat beats a year in jailAug 14 19:31
DaemonFCand it's off my record now tooAug 14 19:31
schestowitzMaybe the MAFIAA will pass some new laws to make legally-free music somehow illegal tooAug 14 19:31
ThistleWebas far as I know, discovery is the process of getting documents submitted to the court that the prosecution asks forAug 14 19:31
wispygalaxywell, glad to see that everything's ok, daemon :)Aug 14 19:31
wispygalaxyi think it goes both ways, thoughAug 14 19:32
ThistleWeblegally enforced submitionsAug 14 19:32
schestowitzHe almost got jail for trolling this channel :-pAug 14 19:32
schestowitzThistleWeb: only in Soviet RusiaAug 14 19:32
schestowitz*RussiaAug 14 19:32
ThistleWeblolAug 14 19:32
wispygalaxyhaAug 14 19:32
schestowitzhttp://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/7537/Aug 14 19:32
schestowitz"Russian businessman Oleg Teterin has registered the smiley emoticon as a trademark for his Superphone mobile company. He is going to ask the companies using the sign for compensation. These could be the popular social network Odnoklassniki.ru, Corbina Telacom, Nestle, and McDonalds."Aug 14 19:32
wispygalaxyi heard about thatAug 14 19:33
schestowitzI just need a trademark on a sad faceAug 14 19:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: ¨I'm away from any sort of keyboard from now until the 28th." OMG the poor guy does not have a laptop? :-)Aug 14 19:33
schestowitzOh, and Obama's faceAug 14 19:33
ThistleWebI wanna copyright all the vowels int he English languageAug 14 19:33
ThistleWebtry speaking without using AEIO or UAug 14 19:33
_goblinHi allAug 14 19:33
wispygalaxysometimes y :PAug 14 19:34
wispygalaxyhey goblinAug 14 19:34
_goblinIts my birthday today...Aug 14 19:34
ThistleWebhey _goblinAug 14 19:34
wispygalaxyit's my sister's too :)Aug 14 19:34
wispygalaxyhappy b-dayAug 14 19:34
ThistleWebcongratsAug 14 19:34
ThistleWebdittoAug 14 19:34
_goblinshe shares it with Hulk Hogan BTWAug 14 19:34
wispygalaxymy sister is 19 todayAug 14 19:34
_goblinand me of courseAug 14 19:34
wispygalaxycool hahaAug 14 19:34
_goblin34...here...Aug 14 19:34
ThistleWebI share mine with Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin.....and MillhouseAug 14 19:34
wispygalaxymy mom's is next sundayAug 14 19:35
wispygalaxymillhouse from the simpsons?Aug 14 19:35
_goblinsorry to interupt everyones conversation.......just had to announce that.....Aug 14 19:35
ThistleWebno Richard Millhouse NixonAug 14 19:35
wispygalaxyahhh i see lolAug 14 19:35
ThistleWebbest known from such scandals as WatergateAug 14 19:35
wispygalaxyi learned about him in 10th grade history classAug 14 19:36
ThistleWebI guess he didn't like his middle name much either, it's hardly mentionedAug 14 19:36
wispygalaxyhe could have changed it lolAug 14 19:36
ThistleWebI just about wet myself laughing when I found out it was MillhouseAug 14 19:36
ThistleWeball I could picture was the simpsonsAug 14 19:37
DaemonFCI liked that scene on Forrest Gump where he's staying int the Watergate Hotel and calls security cause he sees a bunch of guys with flashlights in the other buildingAug 14 19:37
DaemonFCheheAug 14 19:37
wispygalaxyyeah, me too TW :)Aug 14 19:37
ThistleWebyeah, tricky Dicky was a fascinating figureAug 14 19:37
ThistleWebtotal scumbagAug 14 19:37
ThistleWebbut interestingAug 14 19:37
wispygalaxyi never saw the whole movie, i keep seeing the beginning of it in school (when we had substitute teachers) and never got around to finishing itAug 14 19:38
ThistleWebWatergate was only the tip of the icebergAug 14 19:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Its my 34th birthday today..... #microsoft #linux #windows #vista #xp #zenwalk #wolvixAug 14 19:38
DaemonFCyeah, G. Gordon LiddyAug 14 19:38
DaemonFCand the White House PlumbersAug 14 19:38
ThistleWebthere was years of back story building up to itAug 14 19:38
wispygalaxyhe can keep historians talking foreverAug 14 19:38
schestowitz_goblin: happy birthrday, GoblinAug 14 19:38
DaemonFCLiddy was on the radio telling conservatives at one point that when the ATF comes for their guns "shoot them in the head cause they're wearing body armor"Aug 14 19:39
DaemonFClmaoAug 14 19:39
DaemonFCthat guy is still aroundAug 14 19:39
schestowitz_goblin: why " #microsoft #linux #windows #vista #xp #zenwalk #wolvix" ?Aug 14 19:39
wispygalaxyi'm only in one room right nowAug 14 19:39
wispygalaxythis one!Aug 14 19:40
schestowitzNo, it's twitter tagsAug 14 19:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst: Pascal is with SUSE. They don't treat their people so well at Novell. :-|Aug 14 19:40
schestowitz# hash for special pagesAug 14 19:40
wispygalaxyahhh i see, i don't use twitterAug 14 19:40
wispygalaxywere you just talking to marti, roy?Aug 14 19:41
wispygalaxymarti is very nice, i like his posts on COLAAug 14 19:41
schestowitzWhat's this?Aug 14 19:42
schestowitzhttp://itc.ua/node/40048Aug 14 19:42
ThistleWeba link?Aug 14 19:42
schestowitzI can't speak Russian, but the pictures show interesting stuff thereAug 14 19:42
DaemonFCI like how congress gets to vote themselves pay raises as "cost of living allowances" while the rest of the country is getting firedAug 14 19:42
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yes, Marti likes everyoneAug 14 19:42
wispygalaxytoo bad the trolls attack himAug 14 19:43
schestowitzDaemonFC: same ol same olAug 14 19:43
schestowitzwispygalaxy: he advocats LinuxAug 14 19:43
wispygalaxyof course, and quite wellAug 14 19:43
DaemonFCthat's the only thing there's broad bipartisan support for, pork spending, and giving themselves raisesAug 14 19:43
schestowitzIt makes him a target for Microsoft's guerrilla market terrorists, as Homer put itAug 14 19:43
wispygalaxyms is getting desperate, they need windows 7 to be a hitAug 14 19:44
schestowitzThey also just use personal attacks and intimidation (like posting people's home addresses, as if they'll come over to 'visit')Aug 14 19:44
wispygalaxythey can't afford another vistaAug 14 19:44
DaemonFC"internal MPEG decoder and QuickTime are not supported, some "tricks" may not working because Microsoft Detour library is not free for 64 bits platform."Aug 14 19:44
DaemonFChmmmAug 14 19:44
DaemonFChttp://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/Vista64.htmlAug 14 19:44
schestowitzMicrosoft is still a bully rallying bulliesAug 14 19:44
DaemonFCMicrosoft is charging more for 64-bit development tools?Aug 14 19:44
schestowitzThey intimidate all who jeopardise their incomeAug 14 19:45
wispygalaxythat's why i don't post my name, i know there are crazies out thereAug 14 19:45
schestowitzTheir minions ping me in Twitter too, I just ingoreAug 14 19:45
wispygalaxythey know you are right, so they attack youAug 14 19:45
schestowitzThey can still get addressesAug 14 19:45
schestowitzThey can find routes via mates in ISPsAug 14 19:45
wispygalaxyit's funny how they claim linux has a small market share, but they waste their lives on forums bashing linux advocatesAug 14 19:46
schestowitzMicrosoft has many connections out thereAug 14 19:46
schestowitzThey could read people's mail too if some lackey ISP permits itAug 14 19:46
schestowitzIn theoryAug 14 19:46
wispygalaxyyikesAug 14 19:46
ThistleWebencryption is your friendAug 14 19:46
DaemonFCmost ISPs and domain registers will do anything if you send them a scary-enough letterAug 14 19:46
ThistleWebgpgAug 14 19:46
wispygalaxyyes, and i use linux.  it's great protectionAug 14 19:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Happy Birthday Mate! Wish you many healthy years and all the luck in the world. Have a nice birthday party with your beloved ones!Aug 14 19:47
DaemonFCASUS netbook with Windows XP is nearly $400Aug 14 19:47
DaemonFCyikesAug 14 19:47
wispygalaxysee, there's a MS taxAug 14 19:48
trmancohey heyAug 14 19:48
wispygalaxyhi tony!Aug 14 19:48
trmancowispy :-)Aug 14 19:48
schestowitzwispygalaxy: Microsoft acknowledges Linux threat to Windows client < http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136259/Microsoft_acknowledges_Linux_threat_to_Windows_client >Aug 14 19:48
DaemonFCNewegg isn't carrying any Linux netbooksAug 14 19:48
schestowitzClient means "Desktop"Aug 14 19:48
wispygalaxywe were discussing linux netbooksAug 14 19:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: I know, most people of SuSE G.M.B.H. ran away when it became part of Novell (read it in interviews).Aug 14 19:49
wispygalaxyi don't get why hardware companies want to pay MS, with linux they can get better profitsAug 14 19:49
schestowitzLinux is big in some countriesAug 14 19:49
wispygalaxyit's really weird how they want to pay MSAug 14 19:49
schestowitzThe can't attack Linux, so they attack people and organisations nowAug 14 19:49
schestowitzDell seems to have had enoughAug 14 19:49
schestowitzDell debunked their FUD in 2007 when they did the patent attackAug 14 19:50
DaemonFChmmmm, they have Roombas for $160Aug 14 19:50
DaemonFCI should get oneAug 14 19:50
schestowitzAnd now on sub-notebooksAug 14 19:50
schestowitzThistleWeb: I encrypt what I canAug 14 19:50
schestowitzIt takes too to tango (PGP)Aug 14 19:50
wispygalaxyMS is making netbooks more expensiveAug 14 19:50
ThistleWebI love how PGP wants to charge money, yet GPG offers the same for free, for peeps that know about it, and it's fully compatibleAug 14 19:51
wispygalaxyyou don't need windows to browse the internet, write a paper, or listen to music on a netbookAug 14 19:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Thanks! Hope you are well! Regards....GoblinAug 14 19:51
schestowitzMore expeensive makes it more Windows capableAug 14 19:51
schestowitzAnd also less attarctiveAug 14 19:51
schestowitzLess battery life, more expensiveAug 14 19:51
wispygalaxyyes, linux is much more attractiveAug 14 19:51
wispygalaxyi love its themesAug 14 19:51
DaemonFCa real laptop that's got 4 times the RAM and a CPU that's 10 times faster is only $40 moreAug 14 19:52
DaemonFCniceAug 14 19:52
MinceRand 1/10 the battery life?Aug 14 19:52
DaemonFCplug it in somewhereAug 14 19:52
MinceRand 4x the mass?Aug 14 19:52
DaemonFCso?Aug 14 19:52
MinceRso you don't get what it's about.Aug 14 19:52
DaemonFCthe netbook fad is going to end one way or anotherAug 14 19:52
MinceRor so your m$ buddies hopeAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCyou can't really use them like you can a real laptop and they're too bulky to replace a blackberryAug 14 19:53
ThistleWebhttp://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/IsYOxqDYPy4/Digsby-IM-ClieAug 14 19:53
ThistleWebnt-Quietly-Installs-Badware  <lol, Ii love windowsAug 14 19:53
MinceRthey believe they'll survive if they can kill netbooksAug 14 19:53
MinceRnews flash, they won'tAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCit's not just that, a netbook is too slow to even browse withAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCI was playing around with one a while backAug 14 19:53
ThistleWebhttp://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/IsYOxqDYPy4/Digsby-IM-Client-Quietly-Installs-Badware  evenAug 14 19:53
MinceRsee what i said about the web earlier. :>Aug 14 19:54
wispygalaxybut netbooks are good for people who hate heavy things :)Aug 14 19:54
MinceRbrowsing isn't a 'typical light-resources task' anymoreAug 14 19:54
DaemonFCthey have to use a stripped down distro like Ubuntu Netbook Remix to even get it to fit in 512 megs of RAMAug 14 19:54
ThistleWebwispygalaxy: like hippies?Aug 14 19:54
MinceRthe eee-s i looked at had at least 1GB of RAMAug 14 19:54
wispygalaxylolAug 14 19:54
DaemonFCI don't really like UNR any more than I like Windows XPAug 14 19:54
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-210-213.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 19:55
MinceRyou prefer vista, we knowAug 14 19:55
DaemonFCno matter what I end up using, I'm not going to run it on an underpowered toyAug 14 19:55
MinceRand the atom just isn't zomg-powerful enough to make that monstrosity move :>Aug 14 19:55
wispygalaxyi don't get why people complain about the small screen of netbooks. they are happy with browsing on the iphone, which has a much smaller screenAug 14 19:55
MinceRthe hypePhone gets the benefit of the Reality Distortion FieldAug 14 19:56
DaemonFC10" screen, 1 Ghz CPU, and 512 megs of RAM, and some contrived interface, oh and you can't play or burn discsAug 14 19:56
DaemonFCand it saves you a whole $40Aug 14 19:56
MinceRbecause burning discs is still a favorite pastime nowadays.Aug 14 19:56
wispygalaxyi'm moving away from CDs, i can't believe it.  i have sooo many CDsAug 14 19:56
MinceRit also lets you use it all day without having to plug it inAug 14 19:56
wispygalaxybut i listen to music more often on my computerAug 14 19:56
MinceRand to carry it around all day easilyAug 14 19:57
wispygalaxyi notices that the CDs i burned a while back are a little flakyAug 14 19:57
DaemonFCLinux people are so hot for the netbook because it takes the focus off proprietary software and puts it on proprietary web applications insteadAug 14 19:57
DaemonFCso they kill Microsoft and still end up dealing with a system that they have no idea how it worksAug 14 19:57
_goblinschestowitz: Sorry, missed your comment....why #microsoft etc?  So I can announce to everyone!Aug 14 19:57
DaemonFCand is just as patentedAug 14 19:57
MinceRyes, because you obviously can't use FLOSS web applicationsAug 14 19:58
wispygalaxygoogle will make web apps open, i hopeAug 14 19:58
MinceRno sir!Aug 14 19:58
ThistleWebI had a bizarre thought a while back, we take for granted the ability to have whole collections in our mp3 players, and can switch between albums at the press of a button, all stored in a tiny pocket sized deviceAug 14 19:58
DaemonFCHas the thought ran across anyone's mind that there are no free software web apps, no meaningful ones?Aug 14 19:58
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzAug 14 19:58
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 14 19:58
ThistleWebimagine that same functionality with a walkman, and casettesAug 14 19:58
MinceRthat depends on what you believe to be meaningfulAug 14 19:58
DaemonFCGmailAug 14 19:58
ThistleWeba suitcase of casettesAug 14 19:58
MinceRthe SiteBar running on my home server is quite meaningfulAug 14 19:58
DaemonFCGoogle AppsAug 14 19:58
DaemonFCseems to be what most of those netbooks are hyping up anywayAug 14 19:58
MinceRand there are free webmail servicesAug 14 19:58
DaemonFCfreeware anywayAug 14 19:59
MinceRthey can probably run gnome office, so you don't need google appsAug 14 19:59
MinceRno, free softwareAug 14 19:59
wispygalaxymy mom has boxes of cassettes, she wanted to put them on CDAug 14 19:59
MinceRSquirrelMail, for exampleAug 14 19:59
MinceRand Horde (or what it's called)Aug 14 19:59
MinceRthough i'd prefer to connect to my own IMAP server :>Aug 14 19:59
ThistleWebyeah casette to cd aint greatAug 14 19:59
schestowitzHorse of trollsAug 14 19:59
schestowitzHorde is greatAug 14 19:59
wispygalaxymy mom actually listens to music from a satellite TV stationAug 14 20:00
ThistleWebquality wise you can only go down, not upAug 14 20:00
schestowitzI used it for ~4 years]Aug 14 20:00
wispygalaxyeven she is moving away from cassettes and CDs :PAug 14 20:00
ThistleWebit's like vhs to dvdAug 14 20:00
wispygalaxyi never attempted any of those conversionsAug 14 20:00
wispygalaxyi'm going to have to put my CDs on my computer one day...Aug 14 20:00
ThistleWebif you already own the casette, I se no problem with downloading the digital cd quality versionAug 14 20:00
schestowitzI just thought of an acronym for Microsoft Attack Dogs: MADAug 14 20:00
MinceRMutually Assured Destruction? :)Aug 14 20:01
DaemonFCXM uses 128kbps AACAug 14 20:01
MinceRXM?Aug 14 20:01
wispygalaxyher cassettes are custom made- she forgot the names of some of the tunesAug 14 20:01
schestowitz"No other large companies as far as I know use their employees as attack dogs to silen[ce] dissent. It’s time for Microsoft to stop this nonsense." http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/12/the-prickly-prince-strikes-again/Aug 14 20:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Thanks, I'm doing fine. Currently at my own apartment. Will return to my brother tomorrow and kook his favourite dinner.... >Aug 14 20:01
DaemonFCSirius probably does something similarAug 14 20:01
MinceRyou probably don't mean Extended Module :)Aug 14 20:01
*ThistleWeb forgot who's here, and kicks himself for mentioning encodingAug 14 20:01
MinceR(the format used by Fast Tracker 2)Aug 14 20:01
MinceRThistleWeb: lolAug 14 20:01
ThistleWebthat'll trigger the codec tourettes no doubtAug 14 20:01
DaemonFCwhy would you want to convert a cassette tape?Aug 14 20:02
MinceRroy could handle the codec tourettes :)Aug 14 20:02
DaemonFCthrow that shit outAug 14 20:02
wispygalaxyroy can handle anything lolAug 14 20:02
wispygalaxybut cassettes have memoriesAug 14 20:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst: probably means "cook", not "kook" or "qook" (Quack)Aug 14 20:02
ThistleWebsongs have memoriesAug 14 20:02
DaemonFCyes, cassette tapes remember all the hot summer days out in your carAug 14 20:02
wispygalaxyusenet kooks?Aug 14 20:02
ThistleWebpeople link their memories to songs they heard at the time that have some meaningAug 14 20:02
DaemonFCall the cosmic rays striking themAug 14 20:02
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yesAug 14 20:03
wispygalaxyhahaAug 14 20:03
DaemonFCall the EM fields they are exposed toAug 14 20:03
wispygalaxyi know a lot of them in COLAAug 14 20:03
*Xarver_ (n=quassel@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 20:03
schestowitzThose who are attacking target what bothers MicrosoftAug 14 20:03
ThistleWebthe format the songs are in don't really matter too muchAug 14 20:03
schestowitzTrend-spotting. Micrososft's nightmare zeitgeistAug 14 20:03
DaemonFCcassette tapes also remember oxidationAug 14 20:03
wispygalaxywhy do they spread hate?  they need some love in their lives lolAug 14 20:03
schestowitzGoogle is a new obsession for MicrosoftAug 14 20:03
schestowitzAn older one was Netscape and JavaAug 14 20:03
wispygalaxyballmer is obsessed with searchAug 14 20:03
schestowitzSearch for purposeAug 14 20:04
schestowitzMadmanAug 14 20:04
schestowitzMADmanAug 14 20:04
ThistleWebI remember buying albums on cd that I had on tape, and feeling it was weird that they were all ont he same side, when I was used to getting up and turning it over after a certain songAug 14 20:04
DaemonFCthey killed Netscape and Java has been a zombie for 10 yearsAug 14 20:04
schestowitzMicrosoft Attack Dog Man =MADManAug 14 20:04
wispygalaxyhaha that's a good point TWAug 14 20:04
ThistleWebit is, it's just weird until you get used to itAug 14 20:04
wispygalaxyi listened to way fewer CDs than i did last yearAug 14 20:04
DaemonFCbesides, every other TV commercial is a Bing adAug 14 20:04
schestowitzWaste of moneyAug 14 20:05
MinceRlike that will work :>Aug 14 20:05
schestowitzIt's dyingAug 14 20:05
DaemonFCthey buy up all the cheap commercial blocs from what I've seenAug 14 20:05
ThistleWebwhen you're used to thinking "yeah song 4 on side B"Aug 14 20:05
wispygalaxywhy should i listen to my CD player while i'm on the computer?  i can listen right on the computerAug 14 20:05
ThistleWebwhen they're all on the same side, it throws all that outAug 14 20:05
wispygalaxycassettes are a waste too, we are becoming more efficientAug 14 20:05
DaemonFCThistleWeb: I've never bought any cassette tapes except for blanks, and those were to record my phone lineAug 14 20:05
ThistleWebtry telling that to the printer makersAug 14 20:06
ThistleWebwhere throwing out the printer is cheaper than buying new ink for itAug 14 20:06
wispygalaxyi saw a $32 printer at wallmart a couple of months agoAug 14 20:06
wispygalaxyit was an HP one i thinkAug 14 20:06
wispygalaxyit looked like the printer my roommate had 2 years agoAug 14 20:07
ThistleWebthat practice should be bannedAug 14 20:07
DaemonFCwhenever a bill collector calls, it's always funny to tell them to hold for a second while you start your recorderAug 14 20:07
wispygalaxyhaha!Aug 14 20:07
DaemonFCthen they hear a click on the line and you tell them to go aheadAug 14 20:07
ThistleWebI wonder if there's a Bill Collector in the phone bookAug 14 20:07
DaemonFC"Would you please, once again, state your name and the company you represent, for the record?"Aug 14 20:08
DaemonFClolAug 14 20:08
wispygalaxyi saw the end of a Bing ad on NBC last night... i just turned on the TV to see what's on (I barely watch TV these days)Aug 14 20:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Salmon with asparagus alla ML2MST. Will stay over night until Sunday.Aug 14 20:08
ThistleWebDaemonFC: better if it's videoAug 14 20:09
ThistleWebclose up on their face, badge etcAug 14 20:09
schestowitzhttp://qt.nokia.com/Aug 14 20:09
wispygalaxyyum that salmon dish sounds good, marti :)Aug 14 20:09
wispygalaxyqt interface?Aug 14 20:09
_goblinNice chap that Marti.Aug 14 20:10
ThistleWebnokie own qtAug 14 20:10
ThistleWebnokia*Aug 14 20:10
wispygalaxyhe's cheerfulAug 14 20:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: What the hell are you saying? I am as stupid and incompetent as the q00k. Are you mad <grin> (thanks for the correction) ;-)Aug 14 20:10
schestowitzwispygalaxy: he is gayAug 14 20:10
wispygalaxyi knowAug 14 20:10
_goblinCurrently watching King of The Deathmatch 1995 whilst trying my hand pyopengl....Aug 14 20:11
wispygalaxywho is q00k, roy?Aug 14 20:11
_goblinstill hate python...Aug 14 20:11
wispygalaxywhy?  it is open source :)Aug 14 20:11
_goblinlol..its not what it is.....its a high level language.....Aug 14 20:12
ThistleWebkist being open source does not mean it needs to be good lolAug 14 20:12
wispygalaxyit usually is good though hahaAug 14 20:12
_goblincontributes to the de-skilling of a new generation of coders.....IMOAug 14 20:12
_goblinjust like c#Aug 14 20:12
wispygalaxyhigh level languages are good for beginnersAug 14 20:12
_goblinI'd disagree.Aug 14 20:13
ThistleWebhigh level is closer to the cloudAug 14 20:13
ThistleWeblike skyscrapersAug 14 20:13
wispygalaxyC# is restrictive, i thinkAug 14 20:13
_goblintrueAug 14 20:13
ThistleWeblolAug 14 20:13
wispygalaxyheheAug 14 20:13
ThistleWebwhere you're the first to get wet when it rainsAug 14 20:13
wispygalaxytouche :PAug 14 20:13
ThistleWebbut on the bright side, at least you have a chance that the birds will shit from lower than youAug 14 20:14
schestowitzwispygalaxy: qook is "Quark"Aug 14 20:14
wispygalaxyyou mean hadron?Aug 14 20:14
_goblinlol hadron....Aug 14 20:14
schestowitzaka OlEary/SchneiderAug 14 20:14
_goblinCOLA ClownAug 14 20:14
schestowitzHe had many namesAug 14 20:14
schestowitzAstroTurfers have no identityAug 14 20:15
schestowitzThey just need to make the slime stickAug 14 20:15
wispygalaxyi was wishing that he really did use debianAug 14 20:15
schestowitzOn whoever's behalfAug 14 20:15
wispygalaxyi wanted to give him a chanceAug 14 20:15
ThistleWeb"the man with no name recommends Windows"Aug 14 20:15
schestowitzSOme trolls use names like "hairyfeet"Aug 14 20:15
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wispygalaxyyuck, trying to gross us outAug 14 20:15
schestowitzIt's all about sticking Linux smears in many placesAug 14 20:16
schestowitzIt's illegalAug 14 20:16
_goblinCan I just give you all an amazing off topic and completely random fact......Did you know that the words "Beam me up scotty" were never said in any episode or movie of Startrek?Aug 14 20:16
schestowitzWhat did they say then?Aug 14 20:17
wispygalaxyi never really watched startrekAug 14 20:17
_goblinbeam me upAug 14 20:17
schestowitzAhAug 14 20:17
_goblintwo to beam upAug 14 20:17
ThistleWebty, next time I find myself unable to sleep, desperate for my first Star Trek fact, I'll bare that in mind and say thank youAug 14 20:17
_goblinand Ive just publically admitted how sad I am.Aug 14 20:17
wispygalaxylol!Aug 14 20:17
schestowitzI used to watch Star Trek before sleepingAug 14 20:17
schestowitzBut I was like 12Aug 14 20:17
_goblin.Aug 14 20:17
_goblin34 and still going strong?Aug 14 20:17
ThistleWebI like the odd episode here and there but that's about itAug 14 20:17
wispygalaxyroy was a trekkie :PAug 14 20:18
schestowitzNot eallyAug 14 20:18
wispygalaxyhaha i'm teasingAug 14 20:18
schestowitzI watched maybe 300 episodes including repetitionsAug 14 20:18
MinceR"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."Aug 14 20:18
schestowitzI watched Married With Children the mostAug 14 20:18
wispygalaxynow that's being a trekkie, compared to me of courseAug 14 20:18
ThistleWeblolAug 14 20:18
wispygalaxyi think i watched a part of an episode to see what was going onAug 14 20:18
_goblinif you think about it, why would scotty spend much time in the transporter room?  he was an engineer.Aug 14 20:18
_goblinI think I'll shut up now.Aug 14 20:19
wispygalaxyof star trek i meanAug 14 20:19
schestowitz_goblin: no! he's an actor! Really!!Aug 14 20:19
MinceRlolAug 14 20:19
ThistleWebya know, a post watershed version of that could be "Very funny, Scotty, now beam down mu dingus"Aug 14 20:19
ThistleWebmy*Aug 14 20:19
schestowitz"Based on a true story"Aug 14 20:19
wispygalaxydo you watch TV these days, roy?Aug 14 20:19
schestowitzOnce upon a time there was an American(USS) starship..Aug 14 20:19
schestowitzLooking to conquer more worldsAug 14 20:20
schestowitzUSS Startship Enterprise on a Voyage for DemocracyAug 14 20:20
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_goblinheres what happened when the enterprise intalled vista: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcO5OzKwPoAug 14 20:20
ThistleWebI wonder if that's where the US get their centric view of the world from.....us (or capitalised as US) and themAug 14 20:20
schestowitzCaptains Log, Srat Dtar 8757625873232$#@$@!$. We have spread democracy to planet IruqiniusAug 14 20:20
DaemonFCyou're right, we shouldn't be meddling with other countries, we should also stop giving them loans we later forgiveAug 14 20:20
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DaemonFClet the world go to hellAug 14 20:21
DaemonFCnot our problemAug 14 20:21
schestowitz*Star DateAug 14 20:21
wispygalaxythat is the isolationist's view :)Aug 14 20:21
MinceRthe world has already gone to hell.Aug 14 20:21
DaemonFClet them fend for themselvesAug 14 20:21
schestowitzNopeAug 14 20:21
DaemonFCthey'll gladly take handoutAug 14 20:21
schestowitzMinceR: it'll be fineAug 14 20:21
DaemonFCwhile still bitching about usAug 14 20:21
schestowitzBeen here for 4 billion hereAug 14 20:22
schestowitz*yearsAug 14 20:22
schestowitzAs for /us/, that's another thingAug 14 20:22
MinceRschestowitz: there's a human infection spreading though.Aug 14 20:22
DaemonFCbunch of freeloaders in third world countries who won't build infrastructure because they're too lazy, unmotivated, or not intelligent enoughAug 14 20:22
wispygalaxyi don't want to be around when the sun turns into a red giant :PAug 14 20:22
wispygalaxyand engulfs the warthAug 14 20:22
wispygalaxyearth*Aug 14 20:22
schestowitzWe're not the centre of this planet. Been dominent for just a fraction of timeAug 14 20:22
schestowitzNow we have become advanced enough to blow ourselves up due to human's natureAug 14 20:22
MinceRalso to blow up the biosphere with us.Aug 14 20:23
taconeMicrosoft created this universeAug 14 20:23
schestowitzwispygalaxy: it's a slow processAug 14 20:23
wispygalaxylet's move to mars, i'm tired of all this earth dramaAug 14 20:23
taconeNo wonder it will crashAug 14 20:23
ThistleWebwe're humans though, we aim higher than that, if we're gonna destroy ourselves, we need to aim to destroy the galaxy at the same timeAug 14 20:23
schestowitzIt would be a slow death, but we'll never live through till thenAug 14 20:23
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wispygalaxya painful process, roy?  :PAug 14 20:23
schestowitzThere are more excising things going on in other planetsAug 14 20:23
schestowitzJust not so interesting to usAug 14 20:24
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yes, it's slowAug 14 20:24
wispygalaxyhow can we build stuff on jupiterAug 14 20:24
wispygalaxywe have to make the foundation solid first...Aug 14 20:24
ThistleWebI once had a pen pal arrangement with a fungus from PlutoAug 14 20:24
schestowitzIt starts with a sort of draught, then melting down of stuff, IIRCAug 14 20:24
schestowitzLet me see if I can find somehtingAug 14 20:24
ThistleWebit wasn't very chattyAug 14 20:24
wispygalaxylol TWAug 14 20:24
MinceRThistleWeb: but they call it Yuggoth.Aug 14 20:24
ThistleWebpostage costs were prohibative ;(Aug 14 20:25
wispygalaxyhaAug 14 20:25
ThistleWebMinceR: you know him too?Aug 14 20:25
schestowitzwispygalaxy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrqW-Cvx0IIAug 14 20:25
schestowitzYou can search for more out there. I watch heaps of these nowadays. Aug 14 20:25
wispygalaxythanks for educating me, roy :)Aug 14 20:26
MinceRprobably not him exactly.Aug 14 20:26
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ThistleWeblolAug 14 20:27
ThistleWebI was gonna say "small world" but it's bigger than thatAug 14 20:28
wispygalaxyi love that song: it's a small world  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APmHR2bmQgw&feature=relatedAug 14 20:29
wispygalaxyi went there a few years ago when i was 14Aug 14 20:30
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schestowitzI was never in the west coast, wispygalaxy. Was in DisneyWorld though. MehAug 14 20:39
wispygalaxyi went to california, it's much better than NJAug 14 20:40
wispygalaxyNJ is so boring, too many shopping malls and suburbsAug 14 20:40
wispygalaxyi never went to florida beforeAug 14 20:41
schestowitzEveryone's lawn seems more boring than the neighboursAug 14 20:43
schestowitzCA has it own issuesAug 14 20:43
schestowitzPollution in some parts, MASSIVE debt, illegal immigration, etc.Aug 14 20:44
wispygalaxybut i've been in this state for almost 2 decades...Aug 14 20:44
wispygalaxyi want some changeAug 14 20:44
wispygalaxyi know CA has problems, but i'm an optimist hahaAug 14 20:44
schestowitzTry Mexico or CanadaAug 14 20:45
schestowitzBetter yet, make an escape routeAug 14 20:45
schestowitzLike Chalmers Johnson might put itAug 14 20:45
wispygalaxyi'm not scared of the US lol hahaAug 14 20:45
wispygalaxyyetAug 14 20:45
wispygalaxyi hope this country will do well for years to comeAug 14 20:46
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdxFn8FfauU&feature=relatedAug 14 20:46
wispygalaxythanksAug 14 20:46
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DaemonFC`actually, the illegals are running back to Mexico in higher numbers than they're arriving nowAug 14 20:47
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iP1HB2K8CYAug 14 20:47
wispygalaxyso there is a deficit lolAug 14 20:47
schestowitzwispygalaxy: let ^^these people run the countryAug 14 20:47
DaemonFC`mostly because everyone got bumped down a few notches and legal citizens are now being forced to take some pretty nasty jobsAug 14 20:47
schestowitzBill ORLY for PresidentAug 14 20:47
wispygalaxybill's a troll, i ignore himAug 14 20:47
schestowitzHeheAug 14 20:48
schestowitzRunning the foreign policy like it's a frickin football gameAug 14 20:48
DaemonFC`I'll say it again, we turned off the illegal immigration magnet by letting foreign interests bleed us dryAug 14 20:48
schestowitz"We win, they lost... mission accomplished"Aug 14 20:48
wispygalaxylolAug 14 20:48
DaemonFC`now they're bitching because we're not giving them as much blood as we used toAug 14 20:48
schestowitzThe US has just sent a drone to d some funeral hellfire, killing 60 blindlyAug 14 20:48
wispygalaxywhere?Aug 14 20:49
DaemonFC`yeah, according to the terroristsAug 14 20:49
schestowitzwispygalaxy: NYT, othersAug 14 20:49
DaemonFC`they hide behind civilians because they're cowardsAug 14 20:49
schestowitzAfghanistan IIRCAug 14 20:49
wispygalaxythat's awfulAug 14 20:49
schestowitzDaemonFC`: so kill civilians?Aug 14 20:49
wispygalaxyafghanistan needs time to rebuild, and they are still getting bombedAug 14 20:49
MinceRwell, they could be brave and honorable and walk in front of the pentaginAug 14 20:49
DaemonFC`the terrorists hide behind them then we're the bad guys when we go after them anywayAug 14 20:49
MinceRs/gin/gon/Aug 14 20:49
MinceRthey just wouldn't stand half a chance ;)Aug 14 20:49
DaemonFC`yeah, blow them all to hellAug 14 20:50
DaemonFC`don't let it workAug 14 20:50
schestowitz"We hereby find you guilty of not being able to escape people who use you as a human shield"Aug 14 20:50
schestowitzPunishment: death penaltyAug 14 20:50
schestowitzDaemonFC`: it's NOT effectiveAug 14 20:50
schestowitzGet it?Aug 14 20:50
schestowitzYou RAISE resentmentAug 14 20:50
wispygalaxytrue royAug 14 20:50
DaemonFC`if your enemy hides tanks and mortars behind schools and mosques, blow them up anywayAug 14 20:50
schestowitzIraq war increased the threat 7-foldAug 14 20:50
schestowitzAs expected BTWAug 14 20:50
wispygalaxypoverty and lack of education created terroristsAug 14 20:51
DaemonFC`if the fuckers would jsut grow some balls, come out and fight, win or lose, this wouldn't happenAug 14 20:51
schestowitzYou can't exterminate everyone and expect people not to get angry at losing cousin/son/friend/parentsAug 14 20:51
schestowitzYou're spread the hate like fuelAug 14 20:51
DaemonFC`they are cowardsAug 14 20:51
wispygalaxythey are desperate, so they need something to fight for.  it's sad i knowAug 14 20:51
schestowitz*SpreadingAug 14 20:51
DaemonFC`they know they can't fight us, so they hide behind women and childrenAug 14 20:51
DaemonFC`they are the lowest kind of scumAug 14 20:51
schestowitzThe US has smart weaponsAug 14 20:52
DaemonFC`if their men are such "men", why can't they come out and fight?Aug 14 20:52
schestowitzWiping people out with napalm is not a solutoonAug 14 20:52
ThistleWebdo you fight where your enemey is strongest? or where they are weakest?Aug 14 20:52
DaemonFC`no, why can't they fight? They supposedly want to die for their murderous bastard AllahAug 14 20:52
MinceRThistleWeb: can he tell the difference? :>Aug 14 20:52
DaemonFC`so come out and die, fuckersAug 14 20:52
DaemonFC`why not?Aug 14 20:53
schestowitzDaemonFC`: watch your languageAug 14 20:53
ThistleWebhow many planning ops have you seen in stories where they think "yeah, the target is real weak there, so we'll leave that,"Aug 14 20:53
DaemonFC`we'll certainly send you to meet your godAug 14 20:53
*DaemonFC` is now known as DaemonFCAug 14 20:53
ThistleWebany tactician with that mindset will soon run out of cannon fodderAug 14 20:53
DaemonFCsounds like a good idea to me, everyone gets what they wantAug 14 20:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: you're giving them reason to get more nuclear weaponsAug 14 20:54
ThistleWebDaemonFC: you are clueless on this subject, I'm just glad you're leaders have more common senseAug 14 20:54
DaemonFCthey call themselves men then go cower behind civilian noncombatantsAug 14 20:54
schestowitzMany countries are already collecting arsenalsAug 14 20:54
schestowitzAnd disarmament won't come from aggressionAug 14 20:54
MinceRhis leaders have common sense? :>Aug 14 20:54
schestowitzAs I understand it, the Russians disarmed firstAug 14 20:54
schestowitzIt took time for the US to even make it unilateralAug 14 20:55
schestowitzAtomic weapon is simple to buildAug 14 20:55
DaemonFCthe Russians are disarming by selling their weapons to rogue nationsAug 14 20:55
ThistleWebeven the neocons were not this insaneAug 14 20:55
DaemonFCthe terrorists can't build nukes, they don't understand how they workAug 14 20:55
DaemonFCbut they're willing to buy and use themAug 14 20:55
schestowitzMinceR: in the Republican Party they listen to GodAug 14 20:55
MinceRmoney?Aug 14 20:56
ThistleWebI saw a great badge once "God is not a Republican"Aug 14 20:56
DaemonFCCan't build, don't understand, willing to useAug 14 20:56
schestowitzChirac: Bush Said Invasion Of Iraq Was Biblical Mission To Stop Armageddon < http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/05/chirac-bush-said-invasion-of-iraq-was-biblical-mission-to-stop-armageddon/ >Aug 14 20:56
DaemonFCthat's the terrorists with regards to nuclear weaponsAug 14 20:56
DaemonFCso if they get them, the Russians have sold them to themAug 14 20:56
schestowitzThe US sold them StingersAug 14 20:56
ThistleWebis that any different to the spoon fed masses in the west who fall for the propaganda spewed by their leaders?Aug 14 20:56
schestowitzTo use against Soviet tanksAug 14 20:57
ThistleWebthey dont know whats going on, yet they still want to voteAug 14 20:57
schestowitz"The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God."Aug 14 20:57
DaemonFCI wonder how MinceR feels about his country sucking up to the Soviets to get through the cold war?Aug 14 20:57
wispygalaxyi g2g guysAug 14 20:57
ThistleWebcya wispygalaxyAug 14 20:57
DaemonFCdo they have anything in common other than a need at the time, to ally themselves with someone stronger?Aug 14 20:57
schestowitzhttp://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=haught_29_5Aug 14 20:57
wispygalaxybye TW, mincer, daemon, and royAug 14 20:57
MinceRDaemonFC: is that worse than sucking up to the usians?Aug 14 20:57
schestowitzcya, wispygalaxy Aug 14 20:57
wispygalaxybye roy xx ;)Aug 14 20:57
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MinceRDaemonFC: also, is there a lot i can do about whom the leaders that i didn't vote for suck up to?Aug 14 20:58
DaemonFCas soon as the Soviet Union started falling apart and it was obvious they could no longer protect Hungary, your socialist republic came down pretty quickAug 14 20:58
DaemonFCso I'll take that as a noAug 14 20:58
MinceRi don't miss itAug 14 20:58
MinceRbut i don't miss your software patents eitherAug 14 20:59
MinceRand i wish we didn't get your WIPO Copyright Treaty eitherAug 14 20:59
ThistleWebDaemonFC: I pity you and your world viewAug 14 20:59
MinceRbut i have no luckAug 14 20:59
DaemonFCHungary is just doing what it does bestAug 14 20:59
ThistleWeba world of divisivenessAug 14 20:59
MinceRyour megacorps are very effective at taking people's rights away worldwideAug 14 20:59
schestowitzWIPO should be disbandedAug 14 20:59
schestowitzWTO tooAug 14 20:59
schestowitzIt's anti-most-of-the-worldAug 14 20:59
MinceR"land of the free", my ass.Aug 14 21:00
DaemonFCHungary is just a lampreyAug 14 21:00
DaemonFClooking for a bigger fishAug 14 21:00
schestowitz"land of the free [market]"Aug 14 21:00
MinceRusa is just a bullyAug 14 21:00
ThistleWebyeah the US has gone a long way from freeAug 14 21:00
MinceRDaemonFC: be very proud of those nukes you don't controlAug 14 21:00
MinceRidiot.Aug 14 21:00
DaemonFCwe control enough to retalliate against anyoneAug 14 21:00
DaemonFCas it should beAug 14 21:00
ThistleWebalthough, it is still free, as in "the corporate policy makers are free to do whatever they want"Aug 14 21:00
MinceRno, it shouldn'tAug 14 21:01
MinceRyou play police and you're corruptAug 14 21:01
MinceRThistleWeb: indeedAug 14 21:01
DaemonFCwe only have them to defend from corrupt regimesAug 14 21:01
DaemonFClike the PRCAug 14 21:01
MinceRThistleWeb: the only problem is that DaemonFC doesn't realise he isn't a corporate policy maker.Aug 14 21:01
DaemonFCwe don't use them as a frontline weaponAug 14 21:01
ThistleWeba govt for the people by the people is in effect, it's just that the people they were talking about were "people like them", not like the rest of the riff raffAug 14 21:01
DaemonFCit's a deterrantAug 14 21:01
MinceRDaemonFC: so one corrupt regime defends us from another corrupt regime?Aug 14 21:01
DaemonFCbetter dead than red buddyAug 14 21:02
DaemonFC:PAug 14 21:02
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MinceRDaemonFC: as for the "lamprey" thing, go learn some history, you clueless idiot.Aug 14 21:03
MinceRDaemonFC: and until you know what you're talking about, shut the fuck up.Aug 14 21:03
ThistleWebMinceR: he's fallen for too much Fox "news"Aug 14 21:03
MinceRand that applies to other topics, too.Aug 14 21:03
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DaemonFCI'd never suck up to some horrible regime like the PRCAug 14 21:03
DaemonFCI'd take as many of them out as I could on my way downAug 14 21:03
ThistleWebhas as much knowledge of the real world as LimbaghAug 14 21:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux No Longer a Game of Just a Few http://ping.fm/ql1u5Aug 14 21:04
DaemonFCbeats living the rest of my life as a slave, like most Chinese peopleAug 14 21:04
schestowitzDaemonFC is the Fox mentalityAug 14 21:05
schestowitzNothing new hereAug 14 21:05
DaemonFCI'd rather die than be forced to work 7 days a week, 15 hour shiftsAug 14 21:05
DaemonFC20 cents an hourAug 14 21:05
schestowitzIn his video he's wearing one of those "USA" shirtsAug 14 21:05
schestowitzMaybe the back has a portrair of Glenn Beck :-pAug 14 21:05
DaemonFCschestowitz: you wouldn't last long in one of those forced labor camps eitherAug 14 21:05
DaemonFCbut you'll be the first to lay out your own country on their chopping blockAug 14 21:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: who causes labvour in CHina?Aug 14 21:06
schestowitzLet's try to guess.Aug 14 21:06
schestowitzWho's driving demand and running companies with sweat shops in east AsiaAug 14 21:06
DaemonFCthere's no Chinese imports in the UK is there?Aug 14 21:06
DaemonFCor CanadaAug 14 21:06
DaemonFChypocritesAug 14 21:06
MinceRDaemonFC: so why are you trolling here instead of going to China with a gun? put your money where your mouth is.Aug 14 21:07
DaemonFC"We're so superior, we're so liberal, we support all the same illiberal dictatorships you do, and then some! (Iran)"Aug 14 21:07
ThistleWebyeah sadaam was a freind onceAug 14 21:07
ThistleWebso was osammaAug 14 21:07
ThistleWebdidnt turn out too moral huh?Aug 14 21:07
DaemonFCthe Europeans are a jokeAug 14 21:07
MinceRyeah, they were friends while they were useful.Aug 14 21:07
DaemonFCthey support all the corrupt shit they bash us forAug 14 21:07
ThistleWebof courseAug 14 21:07
DaemonFCand moreAug 14 21:07
MinceRDaemonFC: especially your buddies in the UKAug 14 21:08
ThistleWebwell, I've had enough of this idiocy, I think it's time to re-ignore himAug 14 21:08
DaemonFCyeah, we threw their asses outAug 14 21:08
DaemonFCwhat did you ever do?Aug 14 21:08
ThistleWebI did that before over the code tourettesAug 14 21:08
DaemonFCsuck upAug 14 21:08
ThistleWebthen un-ignored after he was given another chance in hereAug 14 21:09
ThistleWebbut I'm not gonna waste time on some clueless fool spout BSAug 14 21:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Fight for Unbundling of Windows in Danish Desktops http://ping.fm/qbdy4Aug 14 21:09
DaemonFCI don't really take criticism from people who have never done anything but suck upAug 14 21:09
DaemonFCyou could have fought the SovietsAug 14 21:09
DaemonFCyou din'tAug 14 21:09
DaemonFC*didn'tAug 14 21:09
MinceRDaemonFC: shut up and study some history.Aug 14 21:10
DaemonFCsigning whatever deals that allow you to liveAug 14 21:10
DaemonFCspineless, totally spinelessAug 14 21:10
DaemonFCnobody forced your country into anything you've ever agreed to except being too afraid to fight it offAug 14 21:11
ThistleWebdamn, how do you ignore again? I only ever did this once, funnily enough to the same guyAug 14 21:11
schestowitzWho fought the Soviets?Aug 14 21:11
schestowitzThe Nazi once didAug 14 21:11
*ThistleWeb ignore DaemonFC Aug 14 21:11
DaemonFCanyone who was invaded by them and not too afraid to fightAug 14 21:11
DaemonFCno matter how horribly outnumberedAug 14 21:12
schestowitzThen the US did a colonialisation battle over policy/regimeAug 14 21:12
schestowitzThe fight against RedAug 14 21:12
DaemonFCdoes Finland come to mind?Aug 14 21:12
schestowitzAmerican didn't 'save' the world from the USSRAug 14 21:12
schestowitzIt only led to armamentAug 14 21:12
DaemonFCbetter to placate themAug 14 21:12
DaemonFCright?Aug 14 21:12
schestowitzThe Germans tried to get nuclear bombs at the beginning of world war IIAug 14 21:12
DaemonFClike the UK tried to placate the NazisAug 14 21:12
schestowitzEvery country had its excuseAug 14 21:12
schestowitzSo the US had to have one firstAug 14 21:12
DaemonFCeven when eventual war was inevitableAug 14 21:12
schestowitzThen the Russian could justify having oneAug 14 21:13
schestowitzRemember: only US ever attacked with nuclear weaponsAug 14 21:13
schestowitzNow Pakistan, India, Britian, France, Israel, etc have loads of arsenalAug 14 21:13
schestowitzAnd nuclear winter means mass starvationAug 14 21:13
ThistleWebyeah "we can have one, but you can't"Aug 14 21:13
schestowitzSo ina  sole afternoon billions could be rendered doomedAug 14 21:14
ThistleWebbecause we're the good guysAug 14 21:14
schestowitzA nuclear strike would not be the firstAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCschestowsitz would have placated the Nazis or the SovietsAug 14 21:14
ThistleWebwe only ever attack first if our corporate interests are ythreatenedAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCwhoever got to the UK firstAug 14 21:14
schestowitzThe 1940s was first incidentAug 14 21:14
schestowitzThe US is still resarching and testing for better h-bombsAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCwe haven't tested a live nuke in yearsAug 14 21:14
schestowitz2 million megatons is not enough, apparentlyAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCwe have computer simulationsAug 14 21:14
schestowitzFineAug 14 21:15
DaemonFCthe French still test live warheadsAug 14 21:15
schestowitzSo do it all on the PCsAug 14 21:15
DaemonFCso do India and PaklistanAug 14 21:15
DaemonFCand North koreaAug 14 21:15
schestowitzSee how it works /in theory/Aug 14 21:15
ThistleWebschestowitz: ya gott amake sure you get the cockroaches in the blast, if not they;ll be pissed and turn into terrorists with a grudge ;)Aug 14 21:15
DaemonFCwhere is your outrage there?Aug 14 21:15
schestowitzDon't build weaponsAug 14 21:15
schestowitzDo you know why debt is so bad there?Aug 14 21:15
schestowitzNot cause the US can't make moneyAug 14 21:15
schestowitzNever mind state of public educationAug 14 21:15
MinceRDaemonFC: well, they don't live test on the japanese. :>Aug 14 21:16
DaemonFCdoesn't matterAug 14 21:16
DaemonFCwe still all pay for itAug 14 21:16
schestowitzWhere 1/4 kids in Texas schools point at central America when asked where Russian isAug 14 21:16
schestowitzAnd many people think the sun goes around the EarthAug 14 21:16
DaemonFCschestowitz, I doubt thatAug 14 21:16
schestowitzThe reason for debt is militaryAug 14 21:16
DaemonFCyou're making this upAug 14 21:16
schestowitzOne trillion $ (USD) per yearAug 14 21:16
schestowitzOr soAug 14 21:16
schestowitzNob\ody knowsAug 14 21:16
schestowitzCause it's concealed by designAug 14 21:17
DaemonFCand how Europe and the Catholic church stopped scientific progress for hundreds of yearsAug 14 21:17
schestowitzDaemonFC: I'm not making anything upAug 14 21:17
DaemonFCwe'd be colonizing other planets were it not for that scourgeAug 14 21:17
schestowitzI'll serve proof , tooAug 14 21:17
schestowitzColonising plenets?Aug 14 21:17
schestowitzLike what?Aug 14 21:17
schestowitzBLobs of gas/Aug 14 21:17
schestowitz?Aug 14 21:17
DaemonFCif our scientific progress wasn't stopped for hundreds of yearsAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCby European religionAug 14 21:18
schestowitzEurope is FAR less religionAug 14 21:18
schestowitzFor a factAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCdark agesAug 14 21:18
DaemonFChello?Aug 14 21:18
schestowitzScanadinavia is very secularAug 14 21:18
schestowitzIn the US, something like 20% are theistsAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCwhat would have happened if that had never happened?Aug 14 21:18
schestowitzInt he US it's like 89%Aug 14 21:18
MinceRDaemonFC: does "creationism" ring a bell?Aug 14 21:18
schestowitzCan't say where Grand Canyon came fromAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCthere's a lunatic fringe that does that kind of stuffAug 14 21:19
schestowitzCause in Arizona the Earth is just 6000 years oldAug 14 21:19
DaemonFCin every societyAug 14 21:19
MinceRDaemonFC: yes, and that lunatic fringe is in control of the usaAug 14 21:19
DaemonFCnoAug 14 21:19
DaemonFCI think the middle east is more lunatic than fringeAug 14 21:19
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 21:19
schestowitzHypocriteAug 14 21:19
DaemonFCthat's really the biggest example there isAug 14 21:19
schestowitzThe one with the stone is not always more monovalent than one with an M16Aug 14 21:20
ThistleWeblets face it, would you let someone who believes in the invisible man be in charge of the red button?Aug 14 21:20
DaemonFCyou never see Americans stopping 5 times a day to face the east and get down on their kneesAug 14 21:20
DaemonFCand chantAug 14 21:20
schestowitzTroops who come from Iraq know they are hatedAug 14 21:20
schestowitzAnd because of their presenceAug 14 21:20
schestowitzThe US should leave them aloneAug 14 21:20
schestowitzThere are other fuel sourcesAug 14 21:20
DaemonFCMuslims are the craziest people there ever have been or will beAug 14 21:20
schestowitzAnd whoever takes power will likely be far worse than SaddamAug 14 21:20
schestowitzHe at least killed some terroristsAug 14 21:21
schestowitzThe UK and US didn't mind when he gassed the KurdsAug 14 21:21
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to MinceRAug 14 21:21
DaemonFCthere's not many groups of people that Saddam didn't killAug 14 21:21
DaemonFCincluding a few of his own sonsAug 14 21:21
MinceRthanks.Aug 14 21:21
*MinceR sets ban on *!*=DaemonFC@*.hsd1.in.comcast.netAug 14 21:21
*MinceR has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (troll.)Aug 14 21:21
schestowitz"Trollblican" maybeAug 14 21:21
ThistleWebwas wondering when sanity would break outAug 14 21:21
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzAug 14 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New GNU/Linux Servers Comes from IBM http://ping.fm/OMkjkAug 14 21:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Odyssey Logistics & Technology Dumps Windows and Unix for GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/bapVDAug 14 21:27
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ThistleWebI shouldn't have removed him from my ignore list, I couldn't remember how to ignore him againAug 14 21:28
schestowitzHe tries to provoke sometimesAug 14 21:28
ThistleWebI have it now thanks to the freenode ban textAug 14 21:28
ThistleWebI have one person ignored on IRCAug 14 21:28
ThistleWebjust oneAug 14 21:28
schestowitzExpressing extreme views about WIndows, against Linux or against other religions to spur reactiomnAug 14 21:28
ThistleWebhim, now twiceAug 14 21:28
schestowitzAnd then he just flooded the channel and gets people emotionalAug 14 21:28
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schestowitzHe's having fun doing thisAug 14 21:29
ThistleWebhe was at it last night tooAug 14 21:29
schestowitzYeah.Aug 14 21:29
schestowitzHe was banned the first time he ever appeared hereAug 14 21:29
schestowitzWithin an hour, a long time agoAug 14 21:29
ThistleWebI ignored him before because of all the codec tourettesAug 14 21:29
schestowitzThen he learned he /can/ be banned, so he cooled downAug 14 21:29
ThistleWebthen eventually gave him another chance after I saw peeps talking to him and he seemed to be normal againAug 14 21:30
schestowitzIt's not usAug 14 21:30
schestowitzHe's banned everywhereAug 14 21:30
schestowitzHe pisses people offAug 14 21:30
ThistleWebI can believe itAug 14 21:30
schestowitzWe're tolerant enough, so he comes back to usAug 14 21:31
ThistleWebpeeps can come to different views based on the same facts, but his stuff is just delusionalAug 14 21:31
schestowitzAnyhoo...Aug 14 21:31
ThistleWeband dangerousAug 14 21:31
ThistleWebexactly, meanwhile, back at the pointAug 14 21:31
ThistleWebon a quick side note, I think I may have to start a protest at my local Iceland storeAug 14 21:32
schestowitzHere is his first appearance here, to give you an idea: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/01/irc-boycottnovell-freenode-march-31st-2009-part-1/Aug 14 21:32
_goblinGiving SAM-Linux a run.....looks interesting.....Aug 14 21:32
ThistleWebthey've stopped doing chili-con-carnie ready meals methinks, I've not seen them in months, and there's no space on the shelf as if it's just out of stockAug 14 21:33
ThistleWebsam linux is niceAug 14 21:33
MinceRThistleWeb: well, i hope we can continue using "op's ignore" on him in the future :>Aug 14 21:33
ThistleWebxfce distro from the pclinux peepsAug 14 21:33
_goblinyepAug 14 21:33
MinceR(of course, "ircop's ignore" is even nicer :> )Aug 14 21:33
ThistleWebI had one major prob with sam thoughAug 14 21:33
ThistleWebit refused to installAug 14 21:34
_goblinapparently this is the last pclinux verAug 14 21:34
_goblinthistleweb: yep! thats pretty major!Aug 14 21:34
ThistleWebwould always just "forget" during the install process and close the windowAug 14 21:34
ThistleWebI knowAug 14 21:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Giving SAM-Linux 2009 a run....Looks interesting. #linux #fossAug 14 21:34
ThistleWebI tried several times too, as it's very niceAug 14 21:34
_goblinno 64bit ver though :(Aug 14 21:34
ThistleWebI still say xfce is nice if you get the right distro that does it wellAug 14 21:35
_goblinonly 675mb download....should be done shortly.Aug 14 21:35
ThistleWeband horrible if you get the wrong distroAug 14 21:35
_goblinI am a big fan of XFCEAug 14 21:35
ThistleWebas am IAug 14 21:35
_goblinthen Gnome...Aug 14 21:35
_goblinthe FluxboxAug 14 21:35
_goblinthen KDEAug 14 21:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Palm's Linux-based Phones Have Reason for Geolocation -- Claim http://ping.fm/qpjjtAug 14 21:36
ThistleWebI've lost count of the times I've felt honour bound to defend XFCE's reputation when someone says it's shit based on XubuntuAug 14 21:36
MinceRlolAug 14 21:36
ThistleWeb"NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! Pick a proper XFCE"Aug 14 21:36
_goblinThe only version of Ubuntu I have running is a heavily modded UbuntuSEAug 14 21:37
ThistleWebI'm curious on how the ubuntu minimal cd worksAug 14 21:37
ThistleWebthat's the base for crunchbangAug 14 21:37
_goblin#!CBL......distro of a thousand duplications.....Aug 14 21:38
_goblinXchat/IRSSI everthing has a double!Aug 14 21:38
fewaWell good these did itAug 14 21:38
ThistleWebyeah there's terminal apps and gui onesAug 14 21:38
fewaIt will be a great step up to PACER and public documentsAug 14 21:38
_goblinit should be one or the other IMOAug 14 21:38
ThistleWebchoiceAug 14 21:39
_goblinits not difficult to install packages you want....Aug 14 21:39
ThistleWebthe lite edition has mostly the terminal onesAug 14 21:39
_goblinPidgin should be ASBO'd from Distro'sAug 14 21:39
_goblinIMOAug 14 21:39
ThistleWebthe normal edition knows they're aiming at "normal" users who tend to want GUI stuffAug 14 21:39
_goblinbut wouldnt normal users simply opt for Ubuntu?Aug 14 21:40
ThistleWebdepends on the hardwareAug 14 21:40
ThistleWebgnome is very heavyAug 14 21:40
ThistleWebon older hardwareAug 14 21:40
MinceRasbo=?Aug 14 21:40
_goblinAnti-Social-Behaviour-OrderAug 14 21:40
_goblinits a UK thing......Aug 14 21:40
ThistleWebyep, a badge of honour for kidsAug 14 21:40
ThistleWebsupoposed to be a detterentAug 14 21:41
_goblincourt order placed on someone to prevent/curb behaviour.Aug 14 21:41
_goblinfor example an ASBO on a kid not to go out after 10pmAug 14 21:41
_goblinif they breach it they are arrested.Aug 14 21:41
ThistleWebyep, if they go into an area they;re not allowed in, they can be arrested for breaking the asbo, even if no offense was commitedAug 14 21:41
_goblinIt criminalises non criminal behaviour.Aug 14 21:41
_goblinbut then its simply like a court order or bail conditions.Aug 14 21:42
_goblinjust lasts longer.Aug 14 21:42
_goblinusually....Aug 14 21:42
MinceRis pidgin that bad?Aug 14 21:43
_goblinI have a personal dislike of it.....Aug 14 21:44
_goblintrue its an all in one package....Aug 14 21:44
_goblinbut since IRC is the only feature that really matters to me (and its awful with Pidgin) then I tend to dislike.Aug 14 21:44
_goblinDoes anyone still use ICQ?Aug 14 21:44
MinceRi don't -- too much spamAug 14 21:45
MinceRaol never cared to fight spamAug 14 21:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sony's Openness PR Move Pays Off http://ping.fm/LG3dtAug 14 21:45
ThistleWebirc on pidgin is awfull it has to be saidAug 14 21:45
ThistleWebfine if you want an all in oneAug 14 21:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Australia Takes Censorship Up a Notch and May Become Copyright Cop http://ping.fm/Rj3kIAug 14 21:46
MinceRi'd never consider to use pidgin for ircAug 14 21:46
_goblinI cant believe Klibido has not been updated since 2006Aug 14 21:46
_goblinI may well make an update myself and include automatic .par checking on download completion.Aug 14 21:47
_goblinIts a great package.......one of the best IMO for NG binaries.Aug 14 21:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Takes Paywalls Away from Lawyers http://ping.fm/EJg93Aug 14 21:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 -- Like Vista -- is Better Off Avoided http://ping.fm/DgugiAug 14 21:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Eating carrot cake in a break between segments of @uupcAug 14 21:58
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fewaMinceR, AOL employees were caught selling AOL email listsAug 14 22:20
ThistleWeba lot of good that'll do as many have left because of bad customer serviceAug 14 22:20
fewathis was a long time agoAug 14 22:21
ThistleWebas an ex-customer of AOL I can testify how bad they wereAug 14 22:21
fewabut the last time I send an email to an aol adress I got spam 5 minutes laterAug 14 22:21
fewaand had never recieved it at that address beforeAug 14 22:21
fewawell...ok..more like a day laterAug 14 22:21
ThistleWebthe trashmail addon is handy for thatAug 14 22:22
ThistleWebcreates a temp email lasting like 2 times before deletingAug 14 22:22
fewaI use hashingAug 14 22:22
ThistleWebbounces it back to your normal oneAug 14 22:22
fewaits more comlicated but shows who gave out your emailAug 14 22:22
ThistleWebgreat for sites demanding you register and they send a confirmation emailAug 14 22:22
fewaie foobar+boo-longhash1234Aug 14 22:23
MinceRunless they cut off the part after the +Aug 14 22:23
fewathen it goes to bulk spam accontAug 14 22:23
fewaas you use a differnt aliasAug 14 22:23
ThistleWebit's just one of the legacies MS will leave behind, a useful global communications medium over-run with spam to the point where it's the odd email that's not spamAug 14 22:28
ThistleWebI noticed on slashdot, a story about twitter being used to control botnets, which I assume are not the same botnets which were aimed at twitter......unless it was a suicide experimentAug 14 22:29
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schestowitzChernobyl.Aug 14 22:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Reason #1 to Avoid Vista 7: Insecurity http://ping.fm/7477NAug 14 22:47
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schestowitzOut for a long run. BBLAug 14 23:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Dave Cameron rebukes Daniel Hannan http://is.gd/2hdao I am surprised and pleased #welovethenhsAug 14 23:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wheee! Finally finished recording @UUPC . Time to go home!Aug 14 23:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Social coding step one; Collaboration support in Bespin launched http://post.ly/2FfSAug 14 23:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Google Calls Yahoo-Microsoft’s Explanation Of Search Scale “Bogus”: http://is.gd/2heprAug 14 23:57

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