-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Main BBC Goon Spreads Propaganda Again Citizens ("Piracy") http://ping.fm/whsw5 | Aug 23 00:00 | |
toros | hmmm, a great article from mr. schestowitz again: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/20/linux-mbr-in-vista-7/ | Aug 23 00:00 |
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toros | and this is a pretty serious problem for the regular users, because they have to reinstall their windows from time to time because of viruses :P | Aug 23 00:01 |
Diablo-D3 | you know whats funny? | Aug 23 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | this debian install is like 8 years old | Aug 23 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | I keep rsyncing it to new drivers | Aug 23 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | er, drives | Aug 23 00:02 |
toros | 8 years old? | Aug 23 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | yeah | Aug 23 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | its unstable, so I never reinstall it | Aug 23 00:02 |
toros | it's a pretty nice age for a computer... | Aug 23 00:02 |
Diablo-D3 | toros.... why would I install debian when I get a new computer? | Aug 23 00:03 |
toros | Diablo-D3: is it a desktop pc? | Aug 23 00:04 |
Diablo-D3 | yes | Aug 23 00:04 |
Diablo-D3 | reinstalling debian would only give me the packages I already have installed | Aug 23 00:04 |
toros | yeah, that's true | Aug 23 00:05 |
toros | I gave my former computer to my mother | Aug 23 00:05 |
Diablo-D3 | and since I rsync to new drives, I don't even need to keep the same file system | Aug 23 00:05 |
toros | so I had to reinstall the OS :) | Aug 23 00:05 |
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Diablo-D3 | probably the next time I replace my root drive it'll be ext4 | Aug 23 00:05 |
schestowitz | toros: never thought of viruses | Aug 23 00:06 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, Batman: Arham Asylum only requires XP | Aug 23 00:07 |
schestowitz | Why doesn't the commission FORCE Microsoft to play nice there? | Aug 23 00:07 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Lockerbie bomber freed for reasons other than business dealings http://is.gd/2u83o | Aug 23 00:08 | |
Diablo-D3 | actually | Aug 23 00:08 |
Diablo-D3 | the next time I replace my drives I'll probably use ssds | Aug 23 00:08 |
yuhong | If you were referring to the MBR overwriting by Windows Setup, I suggested to install GRUB in the partition boot sector in a comment. | Aug 23 00:09 |
toros | schestowitz: well, the could be two reasons: either the don't see any problem here (they can't even turn on a computer, they don't understand, what it is about)... or simply they don't care... | Aug 23 00:09 |
yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/20/linux-mbr-in-vista-7/ | Aug 23 00:09 |
toros | I think Microsoft has millions of reasons why they shouldn't care about it | Aug 23 00:09 |
yuhong | "A safer option is to install GRUB into the boot sector, which Windows Setup won’t touch. " | Aug 23 00:10 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrX5hCX7uHc&feature=related (The History of the Universe) | Aug 23 00:10 |
toros | and there's another nice trick of microsoft... if you want to run windows virtualized, you have to buy the most expensive version of it | Aug 23 00:11 |
schestowitz | Yeah. | Aug 23 00:11 |
schestowitz | That was challenged IIRC | Aug 23 00:11 |
schestowitz | Don't worry | Aug 23 00:11 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is going away | Aug 23 00:11 |
yuhong | MS later fixed it. | Aug 23 00:11 |
schestowitz | Not so fast | Aug 23 00:11 |
schestowitz | But it's happening | Aug 23 00:11 |
yuhong | I would not go that far. | Aug 23 00:11 |
toros | and another pretty ugly trick of microsoft is the so-called "windows 7 hype" | Aug 23 00:12 |
toros | okay, windows 7 is better than windows xp, I admit it | Aug 23 00:13 |
yuhong | But what I really want to talk about is the long term solution to both the Android Market and the iTunes App Store's DRM. | Aug 23 00:13 |
toros | but it has to be after 8 years of development | Aug 23 00:13 |
toros | windows 7 is just another windows... | Aug 23 00:13 |
yuhong | Actually, Vista was 5 years of development, and 7 was 3 years. | Aug 23 00:13 |
toros | but it is far behind desktops like Moblin | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | Or KDE4 | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | But... | Aug 23 00:14 |
yuhong | Anyway, the long term solution is to move to a business model that do not require artificial scarcity. | Aug 23 00:14 |
toros | or gnome 3 (I hope) | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | KDE4 is not ahead in _Hype_ | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | Hype is expensive | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | It's a pseudo-feature | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | Vista has hype too | Aug 23 00:14 |
schestowitz | That feature dies | Aug 23 00:15 |
toros | windows 7 is very old-school | Aug 23 00:15 |
schestowitz | Cause people just spoke too blippin' much | Aug 23 00:15 |
toros | by the way, I hate apple more than microsoft :P | Aug 23 00:18 |
toros | I think apple is even better in restricting users than microsoft | Aug 23 00:19 |
yuhong | Well, the Apple hardware requirement for Mac OS X is another mess altogether. | Aug 23 00:20 |
yuhong | BTW, boycottnovell.com seems to be down right now | Aug 23 00:22 |
toros | and you can synchronize an iPOD only with iTunes... that's just odd... | Aug 23 00:23 |
toros | why not creating just a plain usbdisk device? | Aug 23 00:23 |
toros | that's another funny thing | Aug 23 00:23 |
toros | I have a samsung mp3 player | Aug 23 00:24 |
yuhong | OK it isn't now. | Aug 23 00:24 |
toros | the european version supports only mtp | Aug 23 00:24 |
toros | (microsoft transfer protocol) | Aug 23 00:24 |
toros | and can't play ogg files | Aug 23 00:24 |
toros | however, the same device with korean firmware works as plain usbdisk device | Aug 23 00:24 |
toros | and is able to play ogg files | Aug 23 00:25 |
toros | so I use my mp3 player with the korean firmware | Aug 23 00:25 |
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toros | the same device, the only difference is the firmware | Aug 23 00:25 |
toros | so it is pretty clear that microsoft forced somehow samsung to sell windows-only devices in europe | Aug 23 00:27 |
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DaemonFC | Microsoft may start renting Windows Server | Aug 23 00:29 |
DaemonFC | Server 2009 R2 has special types of keys that only last a certain number of days | Aug 23 00:29 |
DaemonFC | *2008 R2 that is | Aug 23 00:29 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Hypocracy at work at the FSF http://bit.ly/3nzNJr Want credit for GNU,won't give credit to Firefox for Ogg penetration.Icecat instead. | Aug 23 00:39 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Hypocracy at work at the FSF http://bit.ly/3nzNJr Want credit for GNU,won't give credit to Firefox for Ogg support.Icecat instead. | Aug 23 00:44 | |
Diablo-D3 | but... icecat doesnt support <video> yet | Aug 23 00:45 |
Diablo-D3 | they havent imported ff 3.5 to their tree yet | Aug 23 00:45 |
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toros | icecat is still based on firefox 3.0? | Aug 23 00:47 |
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schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWt8a1aMkZ4 | Aug 23 00:51 |
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schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EuDYGnWMiQ&feature=channel | Aug 23 01:00 |
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schestowitz | toros: yes | Aug 23 01:12 |
schestowitz | As of recently. | Aug 23 01:13 |
schestowitz | Always well behind | Aug 23 01:13 |
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schestowitz | I have icecat on my second PC at home | Aug 23 01:13 |
toros | what's the reason for icecat? | Aug 23 01:13 |
toros | it's pretty easy to build an unbranded firefox | Aug 23 01:14 |
toros | by the way debian has an unbranded firefox called iceweasel | Aug 23 01:14 |
toros | on ubuntu it's called abrowser | Aug 23 01:15 |
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toros | so I don't see any reason for a yet-another-unbranded-firefox project | Aug 23 01:15 |
toros | especially when it's month behind the official firefox build | Aug 23 01:16 |
toros | and by the way firefox has pretty bad desktop integration on gnome and even worse on kde | Aug 23 01:17 |
toros | so I think the GNU project should support a real GNU/Linux browser, like epiphany or midori | Aug 23 01:18 |
schestowitz | it's not the branding | Aug 23 01:23 |
schestowitz | I recalled what they changed about a year ago | Aug 23 01:23 |
schestowitz | They removed some other non-Free stuff | Aug 23 01:23 |
toros | ohh, it's half past 2 a.m. | Aug 23 01:24 |
toros | I'm better heading to bed | Aug 23 01:24 |
toros | good night! | Aug 23 01:25 |
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schestowitz | same here | Aug 23 01:26 |
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schestowitz | Hmmmm.. how long has the server been down for, I wonder | Aug 23 07:47 |
schestowitz | ping tessier | Aug 23 07:47 |
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schestowitz | tessier: my IP range seems to have been somehow blacklisted by iptables | Aug 23 08:03 |
schestowitz | Family claim cover-up over death in police custody < http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/21/sean-riggs-police-death-cctv > | Aug 23 08:06 |
schestowitz | tessier: OK, it works now | Aug 23 08:06 |
schestowitz | No idea what happend | Aug 23 08:06 |
schestowitz | All machines on this network were denies access for like 1/3 an hour :-) Maybe a network hiccup | Aug 23 08:07 |
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schestowitz | Deaths, lung damage linked to nanoparticles in China < http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE57I1Y720090819 > | Aug 23 08:37 |
schestowitz | Dan Rather, dogged plaintiff < http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-rather16-2009aug16,0,3488523.story > | Aug 23 08:44 |
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schestowitz | FCC enforcing imaginary laws in P2P ruling, says Comcast < http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/08/fcc-enforcing-imaginary-laws-in-p2p-ruling-says-comcast.ars > | Aug 23 08:46 |
schestowitz | AMD still sucking up to Microsoft? "We also learned that DX 11 (and presumably, AMD cards to push it) will debut prior to the dawn of 2010, but outside of that, most everything else is being kept under wraps. Indeed, the demo was mostly to show that things were still on track and for the chip maker to assure us all that it will "deliver DirectX 11 first."" http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/03/amd-shows-off-worlds-first-directx-11-gpu/ | Aug 23 08:49 |
schestowitz | http://www.nypost.com/seven/08182009/news/regionalnews/ho_no_you_didnt_185152.htm | Aug 23 08:52 |
tessier | grrrr | Aug 23 08:53 |
tessier | The colo is really sucking lately | Aug 23 08:53 |
tessier | Very odd | Aug 23 08:53 |
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schestowitz | It's working well on other networks | Aug 23 09:00 |
schestowitz | On mine it's on and off. But I never ever saw this before. | Aug 23 09:00 |
schestowitz | tessier: it's a lot more reliable than the old host,overall | Aug 23 09:01 |
schestowitz | Could be worse... like Andy's,... http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=2009082010461156 It keeps happening to him | Aug 23 09:04 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Swiss watchdog demands shutdown of Google Street View http://ping.fm/e6QFF | Aug 23 09:17 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] McAfee engages in some corruption 1+ years ago. It also attacked the GPL. Now there's this: http://ping.fm/6duYo | Aug 23 09:18 | |
schestowitz | Teen becomes first jailed in U.K. for cyberbullying http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10315030-71.html | Aug 23 09:20 |
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DaemonFC | I have a DirectX 10.1 card | Aug 23 09:41 |
DaemonFC | not that it matters much, there's like a dozen games that can use DirectX 10 and like 2-3 that need it | Aug 23 09:42 |
DaemonFC | I can't name one major engine currently in use (outside of Microsoft Game Studios) or on the drawing board for the next couple of years that depends on DirectX 10 | Aug 23 09:43 |
schestowitz | When does DirectX 20 comes out? | Aug 23 09:44 |
schestowitz | What about BLAG 5000:? Sounds like it rocks big time. | Aug 23 09:44 |
DaemonFC | now with DirectX 11, it'll run on Vista and 7, but they'll have to wait at least 2 years yet before combined, they overtake XP | Aug 23 09:44 |
schestowitz | THe studios are all OpenGL | Aug 23 09:44 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: naaa... | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | As Apple grows in rich quarters too, OpenGL will gain more appear | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | OpenGL 3.2 is out | Aug 23 09:45 |
DaemonFC | there's only a few major Windows games that use OpenGL | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | Sony backs it also | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: key work Windows | Aug 23 09:45 |
DaemonFC | it's been dying off ever since Vista | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | People move to consoles | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | No, VIsta killed itself | Aug 23 09:45 |
schestowitz | And Vista 7 won't eb adopted | Aug 23 09:46 |
schestowitz | People don't buy many new PCs | Aug 23 09:46 |
DaemonFC | people are clinging to their old ones to stay with XP is what it looks like | Aug 23 09:46 |
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DaemonFC | XP is only losing perhaps 1% or so of its users a month since Vista came out | Aug 23 09:47 |
DaemonFC | that means if Windows 7 is not a success, they're going to really be hurting | Aug 23 09:47 |
DaemonFC | XP is hurting Microsoft right now more than Apple and Linux put together | Aug 23 09:48 |
DaemonFC | people are still slapping XP and XP x64 on new systems too, it's still for sale as "OEM" on a lot of sites | Aug 23 09:49 |
DaemonFC | DirectX 9 is not a bad API though, I mean if you play that demo of Batman: Arkham Asylum you'll see pretty much all of DirectX 9 in use | Aug 23 09:53 |
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DaemonFC | and PhysX too | Aug 23 09:53 |
schestowitz | XP does not hurt them | Aug 23 09:53 |
schestowitz | It's sensationalist repoting | Aug 23 09:53 |
schestowitz | The spin about XP "hurting" them | Aug 23 09:53 |
schestowitz | Self-congrstulatory | Aug 23 09:54 |
schestowitz | Like saying, "I failed the exam cause I was too conceited" | Aug 23 09:54 |
DaemonFC | the biggest technical limitation in XP right now is the 32-bit memory ceiling | Aug 23 09:54 |
DaemonFC | that's making it show its age more than anything | Aug 23 09:54 |
schestowitz | Or: "I had this illness cause of my genes" | Aug 23 09:54 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't be happy if the last time you bought something from me was 8 years ago | Aug 23 09:55 |
DaemonFC | and were ignoring my new product | Aug 23 09:55 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Technically, if you had bought a retail copy of XP in 2001, you could still be using that copy on a system you build today | Aug 23 09:57 |
DaemonFC | retail copies will reactivate on new systems, OEM won't | Aug 23 09:57 |
DaemonFC | that's why you're not really saving any money buying OEM, they'll get the rest out of you and then some when you have to buy another copy when you build the next system | Aug 23 09:58 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I also found out what they had done with the Windows Server serials they gave me | Aug 23 10:00 |
DaemonFC | if you change any hardware at all and reinstall Windows, it won't activate again | Aug 23 10:00 |
DaemonFC | has to be a perfect match | Aug 23 10:01 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Office Loses Credibility Due to i4i Lawsuit, Motorola Dumps Office http://ping.fm/tWRwG | Aug 23 10:01 | |
schestowitz | In 8 years they could not offer something more appealing. What if science was the same...? | Aug 23 10:01 |
schestowitz | We'd be using 800Mhz CPUs, still | Aug 23 10:01 |
DaemonFC | meh, 8 year cycles aren't unheard of on Linux | Aug 23 10:02 |
DaemonFC | RHEL 4 is still supported and maintained with bug fixes | Aug 23 10:02 |
DaemonFC | I think their official policy is something like 7 years of support on each major release of RHEL | Aug 23 10:03 |
DaemonFC | isn't RHEL 4 still on 2.6.8 based kernel? | Aug 23 10:03 |
DaemonFC | 6 month distros are jsut kind of released where everything is at at the moment | Aug 23 10:04 |
DaemonFC | that's why you can end up with anything from awful to great | Aug 23 10:04 |
DaemonFC | one thing may be half-broken, another thing may not make it in time | Aug 23 10:05 |
DaemonFC | Debian is a lot better than that generally | Aug 23 10:05 |
DaemonFC | you want cutting edge, you get bugs and glitches, lots of them | Aug 23 10:06 |
DaemonFC | Debian would never release with the sheer number of critical bugs that any typical Ubuntu release has | Aug 23 10:06 |
fewa | Debian is great | Aug 23 10:08 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: The rule of thumb in a corporation used to be to not upgrade Windows til Service Pack 1 was out | Aug 23 10:08 |
DaemonFC | so Server 2003 and 2008 actually shipped with the equivalent service pack level of XP SP1 and Vista SP1 | Aug 23 10:08 |
DaemonFC | in the 2-3 years before a new Windows Server, Microsoft is actually gathering bug and crash report data from the consumer version of Windows | Aug 23 10:09 |
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DaemonFC | consumers get the buggy RTM product and find all the really nasty stuff so Windows Server customers don't | Aug 23 10:10 |
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DaemonFC | the fact that Server 2008 R2 is going out with the same NT 6.1 kernel and core OS files as Windows 7 shows you how minor a release Windows 7 is | Aug 23 10:12 |
DaemonFC | if it wasn't a minor release, they'd never use the same core files in Server | Aug 23 10:12 |
DaemonFC | you just don't piss off the guys with $1,000 for every copy and live | Aug 23 10:13 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65XhxZQuL0 | Aug 23 10:45 |
DaemonFC | heh | Aug 23 10:45 |
DaemonFC | I agree totally that OS/2 was better, the local Radio Shack even had some PCs with it loaded on them at one point | Aug 23 10:49 |
DaemonFC | be it any system though, all good user abuse survives no matter how many times you revision something | Aug 23 10:51 |
DaemonFC | Linux is carrying UNIX baggage, OS/2 was carrying a lot of Windows baggage (file formats, dll hell, file systems even, file naming convention) | Aug 23 10:52 |
DaemonFC | at least HPFS allowed long filenames before Windows 95 was out | Aug 23 10:53 |
schestowitz | Interesting video | Aug 23 11:03 |
schestowitz | Old one. | Aug 23 11:03 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] "Bilski Vs Doll" at the US Supreme Court becomes "Bilski Vs Kappos" or "Bilski Vs IBM" if you prefer. | Aug 23 11:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Versus Biology Research, Patent Systems in US and EU Challenged http://ping.fm/DqwZU | Aug 23 11:59 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft-Yahoo! Deal Not a Done Deal, But Microsoft Proceeds to Other Deals as Search Ambitions Fail http://ping.fm/zfQlN | Aug 23 11:59 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Chaser: Gay scientists isolate Christian gene http://bit.ly/lGkTl | Aug 23 12:00 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @zoobab #Bilski trying to sue to get a business method #patent issued, #USPTO refused their patent, seek judicial review | Aug 23 12:10 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] william patry agrees: use the phrase "intellectual monopoly", not "intellectual property" http://is.gd/2uKKx patents are corporate welfare | Aug 23 12:23 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] American Petroleum Institute buses in employees, fakes grassroots opposition to #climate change bill http://ur1.ca/a56i http://ur1.ca/a56j | Aug 23 12:34 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] silverlight = hypercard http://mpt.net.nz/archive/2007/05/07/runtimes | Aug 23 12:47 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @sizeof saying the word "silverlight" does not mean I wan t to be spammed by you. did you write your spambot in silverlight? | Aug 23 12:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Taking it easy in the sun with the family at wellington country park. | Aug 23 13:00 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @miguelcarrasco is another twitter spammer auto-adding anyone using the word "silverlight". good luck with that. | Aug 23 13:01 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] o noez! is RationalWiki out of service? i just looked at conservapedia and was near overwhelmed by the stupidity | Aug 23 13:06 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is !listening to David Guetta - When Love Takes Over (Feat. Kelly Rowland) | Aug 23 13:07 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] looks like rationalwiki had a comprehensive mysql disaster http://is.gd/2uNCT arse! | Aug 23 13:12 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Crowd Incites People Against Rival Web Browsers http://ping.fm/o7gdb | Aug 23 13:18 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] @davidgerard except that HyperCard was a forerunner to HTML, while SL is an attempt to hijack HTML. also HC was standalone to one computer | Aug 23 13:21 | |
trmanco | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2351894,00.asp | Aug 23 13:29 |
schestowitz | YEah, well.. says Microsoft | Aug 23 13:34 |
schestowitz | Judge: Microsoft seriously flawed | Aug 23 13:34 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gartner Group Shows Its True Colours — Censors Reporters http://ping.fm/EFQXw | Aug 23 13:45 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I hadn't realised that my papers are still being cited, even years after publishing any. http://ping.fm/B4GHh | Aug 23 13:47 | |
schestowitz | YouTube favourites are not *exactly* private, it would seem. http://www.youtube.com/user/schestowitz | Aug 23 13:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and the Publishing Industry as Inseparable http://ping.fm/3rxY2 | Aug 23 14:29 | |
cubezzz | isn't online music moving _away_ from drm? | Aug 23 14:47 |
oiaohm_ | Some areas cubezzz | Aug 23 14:48 |
oiaohm_ | There are still a lot of music that is only released on line with DRM. | Aug 23 14:48 |
schestowitz | Common Sense 2009 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-flynt/common-sense-2009_b_264706.html?www.GoldmanSachs666.com | Aug 23 14:48 |
oiaohm_ | Lot of online music is moving to watermarking. | Aug 23 14:48 |
schestowitz | Streaming too | Aug 23 14:49 |
schestowitz | Streamin' piles of music! | Aug 23 14:50 |
schestowitz | Not catching on with teens | Aug 23 14:50 |
schestowitz | Oh no. THis good Linux advocate helps deniers of global warming. http://hackfud.net/2009/05/28/climate-change-fud/ | Aug 23 14:53 |
schestowitz | "That’s one in the eye for Microsoft. Take THAT for supporting software patents! Microsoft quoted as saying “D’OH! >.< ” (not really but schadenfreude forbids me to NOT find that funny.)" http://hackfud.net/2009/08/22/tidbits-2009-08-22/ | Aug 23 14:54 |
schestowitz | Trolls in Linux Today. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-08-22-006-35-OP-CY-MS-0001 | Aug 23 14:57 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] opensource charity guy, uninsured American, needs hospital cash http://bit.ly/3ZjQk donate your depleted-uranium pounds sterling! I gave £10 | Aug 23 15:00 | |
cubezzz | watermarking I can live with | Aug 23 15:01 |
cubezzz | btw is watermarking possible with mp3? | Aug 23 15:02 |
oiaohm_ | Yes its already done to some peoples shock horror of having there music buying account suspended due to music leaking into p2p. | Aug 23 15:03 |
cubezzz | hmmm | Aug 23 15:03 |
oiaohm_ | Nice bit the watermarks can even live through transcoding or analog recording. | Aug 23 15:04 |
oiaohm_ | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/08/23/125211/DOJ-Gives-Oracle-Approval-To-Buy-Sun << Nice its a go. | Aug 23 15:05 |
schestowitz | bbl | Aug 23 15:05 |
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cubezzz | oiaohm_, ok how is that possible? :) | Aug 23 15:08 |
cubezzz | analog recording? | Aug 23 15:08 |
oiaohm_ | Because its in the audio stream cubezzz | Aug 23 15:09 |
oiaohm_ | On videos it can be hidden in both. | Aug 23 15:09 |
oiaohm_ | The issue with a watermark is that it can be hard to detect without comparing to other copies. | Aug 23 15:10 |
cubezzz | sounds close to entrapment to me | Aug 23 15:12 |
oiaohm_ | Its not a trap to anyone doing legally the right thing cubezzz | Aug 23 15:13 |
oiaohm_ | It can even to be useful in cases of forgotten ownership. | Aug 23 15:13 |
cubezzz | yeah like I said I can live with it, I buy my music from puretracks.com | Aug 23 15:14 |
cubezzz | occasionally I have to remove drm, so far no problems | Aug 23 15:14 |
oiaohm_ | Its like gps units in phones they can save someones live or be abused to track someone. | Aug 23 15:15 |
oiaohm_ | all tech is doubled sided | Aug 23 15:17 |
cubezzz | true | Aug 23 15:17 |
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_goblin | what a glorious day.....27C here. | Aug 23 17:01 |
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schestowitz | Hey, _Goblin | Aug 23 17:17 |
schestowitz | Day off? | Aug 23 17:17 |
schestowitz | brb | Aug 23 17:17 |
_Goblin | sorry...afk... | Aug 23 17:37 |
_Goblin | hi! | Aug 23 17:37 |
_Goblin | yep day off (and monday) | Aug 23 17:38 |
_Goblin | going to get some posts up on my blog...then look forward to Summerslam. | Aug 23 17:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090821/0405445956.shtml "Comments have been temporarily disabled while we investigate what happened with the hacker. Sorry for the inconvenience." | Aug 23 17:42 |
schestowitz | "wow HACKED BY BIOHAZARD wtf happened?" | Aug 23 17:42 |
schestowitz | How's the FTC dossier coming along? | Aug 23 17:42 |
schestowitz | http://www.nillabyte.com/blog.php?b=203 | Aug 23 17:44 |
schestowitz | "Windows 7 will be released soon, and although there is actually lots of positive buzz about their latest product (in comparison to a lot of negative buzz about Vista), there simply aren't that many new features in 7. I maintain the suspicion that the whole Windows Mojave experiment was just a ploy by Microsoft to see if they could get away with repackaging and renaming Vista with only a few minor improvements. No more improvement | Aug 23 17:44 |
schestowitz | than I would expect with each subsequent release of Ubuntu. The difference is that Ubuntu takes six months to put out a new release, and Microsoft takes at least two years." | Aug 23 17:44 |
schestowitz | What pointless press release you can find out there....... http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/08-21-2009/0005081230&EDATE= | Aug 23 17:45 |
schestowitz | Adobe can't get it right the first time.. http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/08/adobe-updates-flex-xss-securit.html | Aug 23 17:48 |
schestowitz | http://www.stephenfry.com/2009/08/20/the-test/ | Aug 23 17:52 |
schestowitz | "A 34-YEAR-OLD woman, the mother of a 12-year-old girl, has been locked up in a Virginia jail for three weeks and could remain there for at least another month. Her crime? Blogging about the police." http://www.alien-earth.org/forum/message.php?message=46283&mpage=1&showdate=8/20/09 | Aug 23 17:54 |
schestowitz | http://linux.com/news/featured-blogs/168-brian-proffitt/38551-korean-oss-contest-opens-doors-to-worldwide-developers "Database Error: Unable to connect to the database:Could not connect to MySQL" | Aug 23 17:55 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Database Error: Unable to connect to the database:Could not connect to MySQL" http://linux.com/ Well, at least it's a BD issue, not Lin ... | Aug 23 17:58 | |
schestowitz | http://linux.com/archive/feature/151215 "A fatal error occurred while serving your request." | Aug 23 17:59 |
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jose | schestowitz, wanted to point out a series of comments... they are about patents, but it also gets into ms vs ibm | Aug 23 18:14 |
schestowitz | Hey | Aug 23 18:14 |
jose | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-08-23-004-35-OS-MS-0000 | Aug 23 18:14 |
jose | hey | Aug 23 18:14 |
jose | that link has two links inside | Aug 23 18:14 |
jose | if you get a chance to read it later | Aug 23 18:15 |
jose | i don't want to get more distracted today so i don't think i'll hang around (but you have my email). | Aug 23 18:15 |
schestowitz | OIN is rubbish | Aug 23 18:15 |
schestowitz | Let me look. | Aug 23 18:16 |
jose | >> In case, this comment appears cryptic, I think the OIN way is superior to the Microsoft way, but the OIN way still leaves much to be desired. The IP moguls are bottling up "free water" so the rest of us have to pay for it. | Aug 23 18:16 |
jose | >> Now, we see two approaches. Exploit it to the max for short-term gains (Microsoft), or help overcome the FOSS, Internet, etc threats so that IP can get back on track to being the way to control the most important of tomorrow's resources? | Aug 23 18:16 |
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jose | >> Will end users and small businesses always be pushed around (the vast majority of the market place and of society) and find it very difficult to have a real say in how society is run because the elite control too much? The average citizen always gets shafted and has a very large hole to dig themselves out of. How can you better yourself if you have no time to do so and everything is unfairly costly or restrictive? [Yes, some succeed from humble beginn | Aug 23 18:17 |
jose | ings, but not everyone is lucky.] | Aug 23 18:17 |
jose | Aug 23 18:17 | |
jose | Will FOSS stay freely accessible or will it be like "pirated music and software" because it violates patents left and right? | Aug 23 18:17 |
schestowitz | BTW: | Aug 23 18:17 |
schestowitz | IBM has good control at USPTO now | Aug 23 18:17 |
jose | >> | Aug 23 18:17 |
jose | Instead of participating, sharing, and growing, we are intended to buy buy buy. | Aug 23 18:17 |
jose | Aug 23 18:17 | |
jose | A consumer society, but do we have a fair choice? | Aug 23 18:17 |
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schestowitz | -BNc/#boycottnovell- [zoobab] "Bilski Vs Doll" at the US Supreme Court becomes "Bilski Vs Kappos" or "Bilski Vs IBM" if you prefer. | Aug 23 18:17 |
jose | >> IBM is not a fool. I believe they want to up the bar at the USPTO; get the FOSS community to produce (weak as sttt) prior art; change patent law to remove trolls; and have patents go to first-to-file rather than the inventor (yet another way to steal from FOSS). In other words, preserve the parts of the system that advantage them, change the parts that don't advantage them so that it now does (eg, to milk FOSS), and remove checks and balances (the des | Aug 23 18:18 |
jose | pised trolls) to these giant product producers. | Aug 23 18:18 |
jose | >> IBM/OIN, etc appear to want to generate the belief (if we look far enough into the future) that open source could not exist without patents. People wouldn't actually write that stuff for "free", right? That's what they need people to believe before it's clear to more people that patents are bad. "Patents promote innovation because they make FOSS possible." | Aug 23 18:18 |
Will___ | schestowitz: got a rare occurence for you: | Aug 23 18:18 |
Will___ | http://kotaku.com/5343630/microsoft-responds-to-xbox-failure-rate-claim | Aug 23 18:18 |
Will___ | MS barely even bothered to refute the failure rate claims. | Aug 23 18:18 |
Will___ | No "get the facts", no nothing | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | re: " IBM/OIN, etc appear to want to generate the belief (if we look far enough into the future) that open source could not exist without patents." | Aug 23 18:19 |
jose | >> Let's welcome Microsoft to share patents and FOSS and FOSS licenses with us. Let's enlighten them. Let's use their patented technology and extend an olive branch. | Aug 23 18:19 |
jose | Aug 23 18:19 | |
jose | OOXML: not respectable. ODF: respectable. In the former's case, Microsoft and their limited "clan" win out. In the latter, a larger group of patent and copyright holders win. They do so through extensions. The core standard is free. The extensions people will want (value-ad) won't be free. Screw the Red Hat model and companies that try to make money on services and not hold lucrative IP over customer's heads (the power and threat to sue for unlimited dam | Aug 23 18:19 |
jose | ages). Power over competition (and the way to make many customers pay) is through IP. | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | jose: did you see their amicus brief? | Aug 23 18:19 |
jose | Alright, that's enough.... | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | They say FOSS needs sw patents | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | loars | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | *liars | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | Will___: they got away easy | Aug 23 18:19 |
schestowitz | It's more than 54% | Aug 23 18:19 |
jose | that's in the stuff i just quoted | Aug 23 18:20 |
jose | i got that tidbit from either here or lt | Aug 23 18:20 |
schestowitz | IBM is not much of a friend | Aug 23 18:21 |
schestowitz | It's like the foster dad who want you to do well so that he grabs the money | Aug 23 18:21 |
schestowitz | Like Don King | Aug 23 18:21 |
Will___ | schestowitz : Probably. But it doesn't matter. Any consumer electronics product with a failure rate around 50% 4 years later is unacceptable. Any other industry, any other company that tried that would have been shut down long ago. | Aug 23 18:21 |
Diablo-D3 | Will___: eh | Aug 23 18:21 |
schestowitz | I try to tell Sutor that I know what they're up to | Aug 23 18:21 |
Diablo-D3 | 50% 4 years later kinda sounds par for the course | Aug 23 18:21 |
schestowitz | Then he ignored or deletes comments | Aug 23 18:22 |
jose | >> It's like the foster dad who want you to do well so that he grabs the money | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | as long as all of them happen in the 4th year | Aug 23 18:22 |
schestowitz | Will___: they should be sued again | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: man | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | whats the point of suing | Aug 23 18:22 |
schestowitz | Some cunsumer groups would support such a lawsuit | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | all they do is make the suer look like a dick | Aug 23 18:22 |
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schestowitz | It worked for disc-scratching | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | its easier to just not do business with them | Aug 23 18:22 |
schestowitz | Or.. they could remove the product from the market | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | vote with your money | Aug 23 18:22 |
schestowitz | It's dangerous for starters | Aug 23 18:22 |
Diablo-D3 | meh, its not even dangerous | Aug 23 18:23 |
schestowitz | http://slated.org/microsoft_kills_baby | Aug 23 18:23 |
Diablo-D3 | dont leave microsoft products plugged in when you leave the room | Aug 23 18:23 |
Diablo-D3 | buh, what? | Aug 23 18:23 |
Will___ | still, the fault lies with the consumer here as much as or more than with Microsoft. | Aug 23 18:23 |
Will___ | they still buy the things | Aug 23 18:23 |
Diablo-D3 | Will___: unfortunately it does | Aug 23 18:23 |
Diablo-D3 | if you dont like the xbox, QUIT BUYING NEW ONES | Aug 23 18:23 |
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Diablo-D3 | VOTE WITH YOUR GODDAMNED MONEY | Aug 23 18:24 |
schestowitz | Will___: they make misinformed choice though | Aug 23 18:24 |
schestowitz | Microsoft should do what tobacco giants do | Aug 23 18:24 |
schestowitz | Put a label on the box | Aug 23 18:24 |
jose | Diablo-D3, I'm not a lawsuit person, but one benefit of suing is that you allow more reasonable competitor into the market and to succeed | Aug 23 18:24 |
Will___ | at least they have a choice and know it. It's not quite like the PC industry | Aug 23 18:24 |
schestowitz | "This product is more likely to break than to last" | Aug 23 18:24 |
Diablo-D3 | jose: nintendo _is_ that reasonable competitor... they rule the market | Aug 23 18:24 |
Will___ | If this were the PC industry, Microsoft would have figured out a way to prevent retailers from stocking Wiis and PS3s. | Aug 23 18:24 |
jose | saga would have been until they exited the market | Aug 23 18:25 |
schestowitz | "In a statement to TG Daily, Microsoft said..." | Aug 23 18:25 |
schestowitz | LOL | Aug 23 18:25 |
schestowitz | TG Daily is a shill site to them | Aug 23 18:25 |
Diablo-D3 | sega didnt wanna do hardware anymore | Aug 23 18:25 |
schestowitz | Only earlier today I gave an example | Aug 23 18:25 |
Diablo-D3 | I dont blame them | Aug 23 18:25 |
jose | just as microsoft was entering the market | Aug 23 18:25 |
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Diablo-D3 | 32x was an epic failure | Aug 23 18:25 |
Diablo-D3 | saturn was a failure in north america because sega of america refused to bring games here | Aug 23 18:25 |
Diablo-D3 | and the dreamcast didnt sell enough to make up for the previous two failures | Aug 23 18:26 |
_Goblin | was the saturn a sucess anywhere? | Aug 23 18:26 |
Will___ | schestowitz : The irc seems to be holding on to my username somehow. It keeps putting more underscores each time I log in. I though I was logging off correctly (/part). | Aug 23 18:27 |
Diablo-D3 | yes, in japan | Aug 23 18:27 |
_Goblin | didnt save it though.... | Aug 23 18:27 |
Diablo-D3 | because they had an absolute shitload of games | Aug 23 18:27 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: like I said, SoA refused to bring the games here | Aug 23 18:27 |
jose | at this point, microsoft is in the hole, but it won't be pretty if they lock in a large chunk of the console market | Aug 23 18:27 |
Diablo-D3 | so you buy the saturn... and then have like 6 titles for it | Aug 23 18:27 |
schestowitz | Will___: use /nick | Aug 23 18:27 |
_Goblin | but remember the UK (for example) had been spoiled by the SNES and its superiority over the MD...... | Aug 23 18:27 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: the genesis and snes were both successes everywhere | Aug 23 18:28 |
Diablo-D3 | and neither was superior over the other | Aug 23 18:28 |
_Goblin | then the PSX was released and sega never had a chance....they blew thier image (IMO) when MD was compared to SNES and mode 7 | Aug 23 18:28 |
Diablo-D3 | they were both good consoles, and both had dozens of titles worth owning | Aug 23 18:28 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: no, not at all | Aug 23 18:28 |
Diablo-D3 | the ps1 was basically a failure compared to the dreamcast | Aug 23 18:29 |
_Goblin | how so? | Aug 23 18:29 |
Diablo-D3 | it took sony a long time to catch up to the dreamcast in sales of the console and the games | Aug 23 18:29 |
_Goblin | ok...but then look where it took them with the PS2.... | Aug 23 18:29 |
Diablo-D3 | and the ps1 came out first | Aug 23 18:29 |
jose | the better product doesn't win.. the stronger company wins | Aug 23 18:29 |
_Goblin | true, look at the jaguar | Aug 23 18:29 |
_Goblin | had great potential. | Aug 23 18:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Apple ___ set to revolutionise consumer electronics http://notnews.today.com/?p=618 | Aug 23 18:30 | |
Will___ | The ps1 was born from a falling out between Nintendo and Sony. They were working on a CD add-on for the SNES. It fell through a good way into the project. Sony took what they had developed and turned it into the ps1. | Aug 23 18:30 |
Diablo-D3 | the ps2 didnt beat the dreamcast (it came out like 3 months afterwards) for like 5 years | Aug 23 18:30 |
jose | the stronger company has to do with how much they own and what levers they have.. eventually things fall their way | Aug 23 18:30 |
_Goblin | maybe not in Japan, but in the west? | Aug 23 18:30 |
Diablo-D3 | Will___: what most people fail to mention is the snes was half sony designed | Aug 23 18:30 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: Im talking worldwide | Aug 23 18:30 |
_Goblin | sorry dont buy that.....in the UK you couldnt move for the PS1 | Aug 23 18:30 |
Will___ | Diablo-D3: never knew that | Aug 23 18:31 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: thats the UK, no one cares about europe | Aug 23 18:31 |
_Goblin | you just said the world | Aug 23 18:31 |
_Goblin | make yourself clear or get your facts correct | Aug 23 18:31 |
Diablo-D3 | the world includes north america (>50% of game sales) japan (the rest) europe (about 5%) | Aug 23 18:31 |
Diablo-D3 | europe is a very small percentage of sales, so no, it really doesnt matter | Aug 23 18:31 |
_Goblin | yes and by implication you were speaking for everyone....that is not the case... | Aug 23 18:31 |
Diablo-D3 | I was speaking for everyone weighted by what they buy | Aug 23 18:32 |
_Goblin | since I am from Europe, in terms of the PS1 that was the world. | Aug 23 18:32 |
schestowitz | Hat utter nonsense | Aug 23 18:32 |
schestowitz | Most game sales in the US. Show proof, please./ | Aug 23 18:32 |
Diablo-D3 | Will___: the spc700 is a sony chip, and the graphics design is partially sony designed | Aug 23 18:33 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: most europeans refuse to believe it | Aug 23 18:33 |
Diablo-D3 | europe just isnt a big area for game manufs. | Aug 23 18:33 |
_Goblin | lol..... | Aug 23 18:33 |
_Goblin | funny that... | Aug 23 18:33 |
Diablo-D3 | it may change now that you guys have HDMI TVs | Aug 23 18:33 |
_Goblin | Amiga developers didnt do too badly from Europe. | Aug 23 18:34 |
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Diablo-D3 | and theres room to put multiple translations on the same disc | Aug 23 18:34 |
Diablo-D3 | most hardcore EU games historically imported NTSC TVs and gear to game | Aug 23 18:34 |
Diablo-D3 | *gamers | Aug 23 18:34 |
_Goblin | rubbish. | Aug 23 18:35 |
Diablo-D3 | no one wanted to port stuff to PAL | Aug 23 18:35 |
_Goblin | I had a Jap Snes | Aug 23 18:35 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: thats NTSC | Aug 23 18:35 |
_Goblin | yep | Aug 23 18:35 |
Diablo-D3 | you imported it | Aug 23 18:35 |
_Goblin | no tv | Aug 23 18:35 |
_Goblin | no imported tv | Aug 23 18:35 |
Diablo-D3 | your tv was dual mode then | Aug 23 18:35 |
_Goblin | Pal60 TV's are quite able to handle NTSC | Aug 23 18:35 |
_Goblin | I never had a problem. | Aug 23 18:35 |
Diablo-D3 | pal60 == can do ntsc too | Aug 23 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | since it understands ntsc color timings | Aug 23 18:36 |
_Goblin | yes thats what I said, | Aug 23 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | if you plug ntsc into a pal tv, you get the luminance just not the color | Aug 23 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | the TV generally syncs to the ntsc timings correctly though, you just dont get color | Aug 23 18:36 |
_Goblin | yes you do. | Aug 23 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | on plain pal, no | Aug 23 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | on dual mode tvs, you do | Aug 23 18:37 |
_Goblin | you didnt say that.... | Aug 23 18:37 |
_Goblin | TV's here have been dual mode for a long time... | Aug 23 18:37 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: for a troll, you're pretty shitty at trying to twist words around | Aug 23 18:37 |
Diablo-D3 | most people in the 80s and early 90s in europe had TVs built in the 70s | Aug 23 18:37 |
_Goblin | certainly around the time of the SNES a scart connection was all required to play NTSC | Aug 23 18:37 |
_Goblin | and I am the troll? lol. | Aug 23 18:37 |
Diablo-D3 | europe has been behind the rest of the world up to generally the late 90s | Aug 23 18:38 |
_Goblin | Diablo-D3: Ive doubted you since you first started to post.... | Aug 23 18:38 |
_Goblin | absolute rubbish. | Aug 23 18:38 |
_Goblin | we had PAL you had NTSC | Aug 23 18:38 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: which one of us ported zsnes to linux? hint: its me | Aug 23 18:38 |
_Goblin | and that is impressive because? | Aug 23 18:38 |
_Goblin | (if its to be believed) | Aug 23 18:38 |
Diablo-D3 | well, it proves I know more about this shit than you | Aug 23 18:38 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | so please, shut the fuck up. | Aug 23 18:39 |
_Goblin | and have to resort to swearing.... | Aug 23 18:39 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | you had a jap snes, you admitted you were one of those gamers | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | "oh but europe is totally awesome!" | Aug 23 18:39 |
_Goblin | yep. I was a teenager..... | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | not if you were gamer back then. | Aug 23 18:39 |
_Goblin | eh? | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | europe didnt sell games, everyone shit on them | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | nintendo did, sega did, sony did | Aug 23 18:39 |
_Goblin | yes it did. | Aug 23 18:39 |
Diablo-D3 | and microsoft still does | Aug 23 18:39 |
_Goblin | what games are you talking about? | Aug 23 18:40 |
_Goblin | thats why I had the Magicom anyway,,, | Aug 23 18:40 |
_Goblin | so it really didnt matter. | Aug 23 18:40 |
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_Goblin | ah.....and now the double act. | Aug 23 18:41 |
Diablo-D3 | during the 80s and early 90s, europe accounted for about 5-10% of game sales | Aug 23 18:41 |
_Goblin | so? | Aug 23 18:41 |
Diablo-D3 | NA was over 50%, japan was the rest | Aug 23 18:42 |
Diablo-D3 | no one cared about europe BECAUSE YOU WERNT BUYING ANYTHING | Aug 23 18:42 |
Diablo-D3 | japan has like 1/20th of the population of europe, yet could significantly buy games | Aug 23 18:42 |
_Goblin | japan were pirating and the UK was buying...(Magicom? Super Diskdoctor V64) | Aug 23 18:43 |
_Goblin | of course sales will be lower in the UK | Aug 23 18:43 |
_Goblin | its smaller than Japan (or was last time I checked) | Aug 23 18:43 |
Diablo-D3 | brb | Aug 23 18:44 |
Diablo-D3 | Im talking all of europe btw | Aug 23 18:44 |
Diablo-D3 | not just your backwards country | Aug 23 18:44 |
_Goblin | you didn't answer my point how if the European market is so small, how Amiga devs were able to make a killing. | Aug 23 18:44 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 18:44 |
_Goblin | Diablo-D3: And Im the troll? | Aug 23 18:44 |
jose | I wonder if the humans of the 24th century will come with a built-in joystick | Aug 23 18:44 |
_Goblin | I can imagine where diablo will have his... | Aug 23 18:44 |
DaemonFC | China is actually cracking down on piracy now | Aug 23 18:45 |
DaemonFC | I bet this means we see less cracked XP and more Linux with XP themes | Aug 23 18:45 |
_Goblin | I wouldnt think so.... | Aug 23 18:46 |
DaemonFC | you ever notice how every Linux from China always looks like XP? | Aug 23 18:46 |
_Goblin | cant say I have. | Aug 23 18:46 |
DaemonFC | http://www.microzulo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/redflag.jpg | Aug 23 18:47 |
DaemonFC | the state-sponsored Linux | Aug 23 18:47 |
DaemonFC | Red Flag | Aug 23 18:47 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: stoned on a Sunday? | Aug 23 18:49 |
jose | later.. | Aug 23 18:49 |
schestowitz | jose: cya soon | Aug 23 18:49 |
DaemonFC | their netbook Linux is also using an XP Luna theme | Aug 23 18:49 |
*jose has quit ("Leaving") | Aug 23 18:49 | |
schestowitz | Grotesque | Aug 23 18:49 |
DaemonFC | meh, just trying to give them what they're used to I assume | Aug 23 18:50 |
DaemonFC | I've seen some passable Vista clones too | Aug 23 18:50 |
schestowitz | Trying Out OpenOffice.org Impress Prototype (Renaissance) < http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/08/trying-out-openofficeorg-impress.html > | Aug 23 18:51 |
schestowitz | People are not used just to thems | Aug 23 18:51 |
schestowitz | Metaphors | Aug 23 18:51 |
schestowitz | If you make it look like XP, people will expect everything to behave the same | Aug 23 18:52 |
DaemonFC | some are just close enough to avoid copyright infringement | Aug 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | Doesn't Luna have prior art | Aug 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | ? | Aug 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | Like, y'know, Fish-Price? | Aug 23 18:52 |
schestowitz | *Fisher | Aug 23 18:52 |
DaemonFC | then there's the ebay scammers | Aug 23 18:53 |
DaemonFC | sell Kubuntu by describing everything as "Windows"-like | Aug 23 18:53 |
schestowitz | It would actually be very funny if a toy maker had sued Microsoft for copying designs | Aug 23 18:53 |
_Goblin | Why would anyone want an XP theme....thats like buying lamborgini and dressing it up as a skoda. | Aug 23 18:53 |
DaemonFC | Royale isn't bad | Aug 23 18:53 |
DaemonFC | Luna was | Aug 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | Stil ugly | Aug 23 18:54 |
DaemonFC | then there's Luna Elements | Aug 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | Jobs: the problem with Microsoft is, they have no taste | Aug 23 18:54 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8SAFRBmcU | Aug 23 18:54 |
DaemonFC | the XP theming engine does support other themes you know? | Aug 23 18:55 |
schestowitz | "The problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have no taste and I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way" | Aug 23 18:55 |
DaemonFC | I've cloned GNOME before pretty thoroughly | Aug 23 18:55 |
DaemonFC | just using XP themes | Aug 23 18:55 |
_Goblin | great.... | Aug 23 18:55 |
DaemonFC | http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5835/36452354.png | Aug 23 18:56 |
DaemonFC | there's Royale Noir | Aug 23 18:56 |
schestowitz | Steve Jobs Burning Bill Gates < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM-DWAoVoR0&feature=related > | Aug 23 18:56 |
DaemonFC | http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2766/65447049.png (Royale) | Aug 23 18:57 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: that sure is a MS product.....but dressing it up as something else doesnt make it better. | Aug 23 18:57 |
DaemonFC | they actually improved the themes quite a bit | Aug 23 18:57 |
DaemonFC | those are actual Microsoft themes, Noir was never released though | Aug 23 18:58 |
DaemonFC | it was kind of a mock up they were using for some commercials in the UK, but they left it buried on one of their servers | Aug 23 18:58 |
_Goblin | thats been MS's problem all along in my opinion....give it a facelift, a new name and then re-release it..... | Aug 23 18:58 |
_Goblin | and expect people to pay | Aug 23 18:58 |
DaemonFC | the Energy Blue Royale was the Media Center 2005 theme | Aug 23 18:58 |
DaemonFC | http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1908/22055571.png (me playing around) | Aug 23 19:00 |
DaemonFC | XP themes are kind of a dime a dozen at DeviantArt, there's also ones to clone OS X and GNOME and KDE | Aug 23 19:00 |
DaemonFC | plugins for compositing | Aug 23 19:01 |
_Goblin | Im impressed.....You can customise the taskbar in Windows......you can put as much lipstick on that pig as you want, it doesnt change what it is. | Aug 23 19:01 |
_Goblin | and its sort of sad that people would want to try and hide the fact its windows (Mojave) for example. | Aug 23 19:01 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu with 256Mb … not so smart < http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/ubuntu-with-256mb-not-so-smart/ > | Aug 23 19:02 |
DaemonFC | you can't use XP style themes in Vista or 7 but you can still use their style of themes, they're around | Aug 23 19:03 |
_Goblin | and thats great because? | Aug 23 19:03 |
_Goblin | or of interest to Linux users because? | Aug 23 19:03 |
DaemonFC | telling people Ubuntu runs in 256 megs of RAM is like telling people you can cram 50 teenagers in a phone booth | Aug 23 19:03 |
DaemonFC | it's just not going to happen, too cramped | Aug 23 19:04 |
DaemonFC | I'd call 512 megs a minimum and 1 GB preferable | Aug 23 19:04 |
_Goblin | 1gig? I test most of the distros I review on a system with 512meg | Aug 23 19:05 |
DaemonFC | it'll run in 256 megs, you just better be ready to hurry up and wait on everything | Aug 23 19:05 |
_Goblin | a little like VIsta with 4gig | Aug 23 19:05 |
DaemonFC | it'll attack your SWAP pretty fiercely with anything less than 1 gig | Aug 23 19:05 |
*schestowitz sees screenshot of an ugly copy of kde4 | Aug 23 19:05 | |
_Goblin | a little like Vista with 4gig | Aug 23 19:05 |
DaemonFC | no | Aug 23 19:05 |
_Goblin | Vista would use your swap simple for moving the mouse......... | Aug 23 19:06 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: it rains again here | Aug 23 19:06 |
DaemonFC | I have 4 gigs, I never see Windows thrashing my disk | Aug 23 19:06 |
schestowitz | How's it down souf[sic]? | Aug 23 19:06 |
*schestowitz takes nap | Aug 23 19:06 | |
DaemonFC | I've used Vista with as little as 1 | Aug 23 19:06 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Im sure you dont....Vista is loved eh? | Aug 23 19:06 |
DaemonFC | it's usable, but I don't know why anyone would put up with such a minimal system | Aug 23 19:07 |
DaemonFC | RAM is like $8 a gig | Aug 23 19:07 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Vista is gods gift to the world eh? | Aug 23 19:07 |
DaemonFC | you have tightwads that don't want to replace their 10 year old computer trying to cram pack Ubuntu onto it | Aug 23 19:07 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: and 7 is so great it will bring about world peace..eh? | Aug 23 19:07 |
DaemonFC | that's why they say 256 megs, it's marketing | Aug 23 19:07 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: I have 7 machines....3 of which bought this year. I wont pay for Windows because its inferior. I may have money but I dont like to waste it. | Aug 23 19:08 |
DaemonFC | I have MSDN, Technet, and now Dreamspark accounts | Aug 23 19:08 |
_Goblin | Im sure you do. | Aug 23 19:09 |
DaemonFC | I can download pretty much anything I want | Aug 23 19:09 |
_Goblin | so you download it without paying? | Aug 23 19:09 |
DaemonFC | that's what the account allows | Aug 23 19:09 |
_Goblin | theres a good advert for Microsoft - "Our products are great, if you can get them for free...." | Aug 23 19:09 |
_Goblin | schestowitz: Its still hot here in Hertfordshire. | Aug 23 19:10 |
_Goblin | schestowitz: sorry I missed your earlier message, was distracted with Microsoft rubbish.... | Aug 23 19:12 |
DaemonFC | I've been on MSDN for a while, they have pretty much everything there about 90 days before it's for sale | Aug 23 19:12 |
_Goblin | wow... | Aug 23 19:13 |
_Goblin | are you talking about "warez"? | Aug 23 19:14 |
DaemonFC | no | Aug 23 19:14 |
_Goblin | what then? Ballmers school photos? | Aug 23 19:14 |
_Goblin | what are you talking about? | Aug 23 19:14 |
DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Developer_Network#Software_subscriptions | Aug 23 19:14 |
DaemonFC | that | Aug 23 19:14 |
_Goblin | ah, now you make yourself clear. | Aug 23 19:15 |
_Goblin | Microsoft_Developer_Network - An endangered species? | Aug 23 19:15 |
DaemonFC | they have subscription tiers, if all you want is Windows it costs like $700 a year, but any licenses you get in that time stay valid | Aug 23 19:16 |
_Goblin | I'd rather give Moshe Goldfarb $700.....Windows? worthless. | Aug 23 19:16 |
DaemonFC | some people do that if they have more than a couple PCs they want to run an expensive version of Windows on | Aug 23 19:16 |
_Goblin | a dying breed. | Aug 23 19:17 |
_Goblin | even Ballmer now seems to claim Linux has 10% (not the previously touted 1) | Aug 23 19:17 |
DaemonFC | citation? | Aug 23 19:17 |
_Goblin | Ive got a link to a slide from a MS talk... | Aug 23 19:18 |
_Goblin | standby... | Aug 23 19:18 |
_Goblin | Ill link it.... | Aug 23 19:18 |
_Goblin | give me a few mins...It was in the comments section on my blog...... | Aug 23 19:19 |
_Goblin | got it: | Aug 23 19:20 |
_Goblin | http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple | Aug 23 19:20 |
_Goblin | sorry about that...it was a submittion from another user. | Aug 23 19:20 |
_Goblin | took a while to find. | Aug 23 19:20 |
DaemonFC | "As you can see, Microsoft sees piracy as its biggest competitor." | Aug 23 19:21 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 19:21 |
_Goblin | as I say...."People will have MS products if they can get them for free" | Aug 23 19:21 |
DaemonFC | Linux is a bigger competitor than Apple for Server installations | Aug 23 19:22 |
_Goblin | even Windows users don't see the value in paying for them. | Aug 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | Apple has virtually no presence there and those are profitable customers | Aug 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | I'm certain that's what he means | Aug 23 19:22 |
DaemonFC | http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/01/1443237 | Aug 23 19:23 |
_Goblin | of course....bbl... | Aug 23 19:25 |
DaemonFC | you can say usage share is whatever you want on a server because that will fluctuate wildly depending on who you survey and what you call a server | Aug 23 19:25 |
DaemonFC | you're basically just reading tea leaves no matter what you do | Aug 23 19:26 |
DaemonFC | the best way to gauge where Microsoft is at is probably to look at year over year sales | Aug 23 19:26 |
DaemonFC | the last quarter was down because it's always down right before a new Windows release | Aug 23 19:27 |
DaemonFC | nobody wants to take a chance and maybe get stuck with the last version | Aug 23 19:27 |
DaemonFC | next quarter will be wickedly up | Aug 23 19:28 |
DaemonFC | so it's probably just best to compare two years where they've had no major new version | Aug 23 19:28 |
DaemonFC | if you do trending you'll get another problem, their products ten years ago weren't what they are now | Aug 23 19:29 |
DaemonFC | http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:MSFT | Aug 23 19:30 |
DaemonFC | if you do the 5 year graph you'll see just how badly Vista hurt them and they've been gradually recovering since then | Aug 23 19:30 |
DaemonFC | that big dip near the end was because of people holding off buying the copies of Vista they otherwise would have while they wait for October | Aug 23 19:32 |
DaemonFC | then they start figuring in preorders and their stock is up about 30% from the dip overnight | Aug 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | investors are pretty fickle, they demand instant gratification or they punish you | Aug 23 19:33 |
DaemonFC | whatever happens to Red Hat, on the other hand, will occur more gradually | Aug 23 19:37 |
DaemonFC | http://www.linuxfoundation.org/publications/whowriteslinux.pdf | Aug 23 19:43 |
DaemonFC | Another report showing that Nokia actually writes four times as much Linux kernel code as Canonical/Ubuntu | Aug 23 19:43 |
*Xarver has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Aug 23 20:00 | |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: I never claimed any stats...I simply refute the ones made about Linux by the MS faithful. Even they, it seems, can't decide on what market share Linux has. You would think if they are going to spread FUD, they would at least get their story straight. | Aug 23 20:03 |
Diablo-D3 | the problem with that is the answer doesnt make any sense | Aug 23 20:04 |
Diablo-D3 | you have to define which market | Aug 23 20:04 |
Diablo-D3 | if its enterprise, the answer is "most of it" | Aug 23 20:04 |
_Goblin | I would not seek to answer for any market.... | Aug 23 20:04 |
Diablo-D3 | if its desktop its "5-15% depending on which survey" | Aug 23 20:04 |
_Goblin | and neither should the MS faithful.... | Aug 23 20:04 |
Diablo-D3 | which means, merely, 85-95% of the market is wrong | Aug 23 20:04 |
_Goblin | for example the 1% is commonly touted, yet it appears even Ballmer has different ideas. | Aug 23 20:04 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: its about 5-15% | Aug 23 20:05 |
_Goblin | again, thats up for dispute....depending on who you talk to. | Aug 23 20:05 |
Diablo-D3 | a huge number of linux users dual boot or own second machines for gaming | Aug 23 20:05 |
DaemonFC | well, the problem is that since nobody can prove what the market share really is, nobody should even try | Aug 23 20:05 |
Diablo-D3 | surveys dont accurately measure them | Aug 23 20:05 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: almost | Aug 23 20:05 |
DaemonFC | yet Linux people try to spin it more in their favor too | Aug 23 20:05 |
Diablo-D3 | the problem is, if linux even has 1 user on the desktop, microsoft has to worry | Aug 23 20:05 |
_Goblin | true. | Aug 23 20:05 |
DaemonFC | it's like presidential approval polling | Aug 23 20:05 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft cant win until all desktops are dead | Aug 23 20:06 |
DaemonFC | if it doesn't affect anything, why do it? if it does, isn't that unethical? | Aug 23 20:06 |
Diablo-D3 | this is how microsoft played their game and its largely fucked them up | Aug 23 20:06 |
Diablo-D3 | they cant win until they've actually won | Aug 23 20:06 |
_Goblin | hence MS shops, cloud computing....MS IMO is trying to enter the pay per play computing market.... | Aug 23 20:06 |
Diablo-D3 | apple can win merely by playing the game | Aug 23 20:06 |
Diablo-D3 | linux wins merely by existing | Aug 23 20:06 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: Funny you should mention that | Aug 23 20:06 |
_Goblin | and the MS store will be the pimp of that project | Aug 23 20:06 |
DaemonFC | there's a new time-based serial number system | Aug 23 20:07 |
_Goblin | didnt know that. | Aug 23 20:07 |
DaemonFC | right now they're using them for 180 trials | Aug 23 20:07 |
DaemonFC | but they could jsut as easily sell you licenses by the month or year | Aug 23 20:07 |
_Goblin | I see the MS store being much like a mobile phone shop....get a cheap/free desktop and pay per play in a cloud environment. | Aug 23 20:07 |
DaemonFC | good way to whip small businesses in line | Aug 23 20:07 |
DaemonFC | a lot of small businesses haven't upgraded since Windows 2000 or Windows 2003 | Aug 23 20:08 |
_Goblin | that idea ticks all the boxes.....constant revenue and lockin. | Aug 23 20:08 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: this I wouldnt actually mind | Aug 23 20:08 |
Diablo-D3 | you know why? | Aug 23 20:08 |
DaemonFC | this would ensure that they pay Microsoft every year on time | Aug 23 20:08 |
_Goblin | why? | Aug 23 20:08 |
DaemonFC | cause they depend on Windows | Aug 23 20:08 |
Diablo-D3 | people would quit bitching they lost their shit because their computer "crashed" | Aug 23 20:08 |
Diablo-D3 | (I wish someone would define "crash", btw, because what does crashing have to do with reinstalling windows?) | Aug 23 20:09 |
DaemonFC | the activation server could just keep track of how many days your license is good for | Aug 23 20:09 |
DaemonFC | kind of like the KMS system | Aug 23 20:09 |
DaemonFC | or you could decommission a server that has 500 days left on its license and apply the remaining 500 days to the new server that replaces it | Aug 23 20:09 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well | Aug 23 20:09 |
_Goblin | maybe people could have a Microsoft Meter in their homes......along side their electricity and gas. | Aug 23 20:10 |
DaemonFC | just install whatever version of Windows Server is the latest | Aug 23 20:10 |
_Goblin | great idea..... | Aug 23 20:10 |
Diablo-D3 | I wouldnt mind "paying" (lolololol) for a license that has x days | Aug 23 20:10 |
Diablo-D3 | because microsoft then can _STOP RELEASING NEW VERSIONS OF WINDOWS_ | Aug 23 20:10 |
Diablo-D3 | they'd have to Debianize their system | Aug 23 20:10 |
DaemonFC | well, if they could do that with home users, they could break down the huge up front license fee into a yearly subscription | Aug 23 20:10 |
_Goblin | with a cheap desktop system offered as an incentive... | Aug 23 20:11 |
Diablo-D3 | I wouldnt mind having to pirate windows every x days if this improved windows quality | Aug 23 20:11 |
DaemonFC | They want you to upgrade about every 3 years, a retail copy of Home Premium is about $189 | Aug 23 20:11 |
Diablo-D3 | I mean, it sucks dick to have windows lock up in the middle of a video game | Aug 23 20:11 |
DaemonFC | so $63 for a one year subscription to Windows | Aug 23 20:11 |
DaemonFC | and you always have the latest version | Aug 23 20:11 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well | Aug 23 20:11 |
Diablo-D3 | I'd rather monthly | Aug 23 20:11 |
Diablo-D3 | because there are months I dont use windows | Aug 23 20:12 |
Diablo-D3 | so I shouldnt have to pay for it | Aug 23 20:12 |
DaemonFC | keeps their customers from paying them once, 8 years ago, and still using the same copy | Aug 23 20:12 |
_Goblin | could Live arcade (or whatever its called) be a sort of trial for this Microsoft idea? | Aug 23 20:12 |
DaemonFC | XP Pro was like $199 | Aug 23 20:12 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: no, because no one owns an xbox | Aug 23 20:12 |
_Goblin | no...they own two or three....(red rings of death) | Aug 23 20:12 |
DaemonFC | they only make like $24.87 if you've used that copy til Windows 7 is out | Aug 23 20:12 |
Diablo-D3 | Ive never met someone who owned an xbox | Aug 23 20:12 |
Diablo-D3 | I think its a muth like those people who voted for bush | Aug 23 20:13 |
DaemonFC | so they immediately triple their profit per customer with the subscription model | Aug 23 20:13 |
_Goblin | Ive never met anyone who has had only one.... | Aug 23 20:13 |
DaemonFC | there's no way you can camp out on the last version | Aug 23 20:13 |
_Goblin | thats why MS made no money......faulty hardware | Aug 23 20:13 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft made no money because no one ever bought any | Aug 23 20:13 |
Diablo-D3 | not 1, not 2, not 3, 0. | Aug 23 20:13 |
_Goblin | it was that and the returns on faulty machines. | Aug 23 20:13 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: I could see it working like this. Your subscription expires, Windows gives you 7 days to get everything squared away and punch in a new serial number | Aug 23 20:14 |
_Goblin | and its failed attempt to push HDVD instead of blueray | Aug 23 20:14 |
DaemonFC | if you don't, it deactivates all but the basic functionality | Aug 23 20:14 |
DaemonFC | and throws up nag screens | Aug 23 20:14 |
DaemonFC | like the pirated mode does now | Aug 23 20:14 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: heh, or I just get a better crack | Aug 23 20:15 |
DaemonFC | you're never actually locked out, it just disables all the premium features and nags you | Aug 23 20:15 |
Diablo-D3 | Ive had to replace my xp crack like 4 times | Aug 23 20:15 |
Diablo-D3 | nothing microsoft does can actually stop me from hating them | Aug 23 20:15 |
DaemonFC | I don't think there will be a crack | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | I think they should stop trying and just do what Apple does: produce products that dont piss me off | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | if there isnt one | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | then there goes half their users | Aug 23 20:16 |
DaemonFC | there won't be any OEM SLP code to exploit | Aug 23 20:16 |
DaemonFC | that gets rid of the only way to be sure they don't shut you down with the next hotfix | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | seriously | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | no one wants windows | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | they keep it around for the games | Aug 23 20:16 |
Diablo-D3 | I can just go buy a damned Wii | Aug 23 20:17 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft cant stop me | Aug 23 20:17 |
DaemonFC | I think that's the only thing that's stopping them from renting it out | Aug 23 20:17 |
DaemonFC | businesses would do it though | Aug 23 20:17 |
Diablo-D3 | I dunno | Aug 23 20:17 |
DaemonFC | that's why the new time based keys are only in Windows Server | Aug 23 20:17 |
Diablo-D3 | you know what I should do? | Aug 23 20:17 |
Diablo-D3 | go into business selling linux | Aug 23 20:17 |
DaemonFC | nobody really makes a profit selling Linux as a desktop system | Aug 23 20:18 |
Diablo-D3 | and make it really windowsy | Aug 23 20:18 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: because they dont sell the hardware too | Aug 23 20:18 |
DaemonFC | maybe a few ebay scalpers tricking lamers into buyign an Ubuntu CD-R for $10 | Aug 23 20:18 |
DaemonFC | by saying it's just like Windows | Aug 23 20:18 |
Diablo-D3 | actually, it is just like windows | Aug 23 20:18 |
Diablo-D3 | its kind of disgusting | Aug 23 20:18 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: look at how many area's of their business MS are selling..Look at almost every MS "innovation" has lost out to competition. Factor that in with high license fees and lock in. The future doesnt look so bright..... | Aug 23 20:18 |
DaemonFC | it's not all bad | Aug 23 20:18 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 20:18 |
DaemonFC | their networking is pretty good | Aug 23 20:18 |
_Goblin | thats faith | Aug 23 20:18 |
_Goblin | lol... | Aug 23 20:19 |
DaemonFC | Active Directory Server too | Aug 23 20:19 |
_Goblin | maybe then you can explain why major government bodies are moving away already..... | Aug 23 20:19 |
DaemonFC | a lot of Linux server uptake is because they mimic, reverse engineer, or otherwise clone those protocols | Aug 23 20:19 |
_Goblin | maybe you can explain how the armed services are falling foul of MS systems. | Aug 23 20:19 |
_Goblin | I can give examples if you wish. | Aug 23 20:19 |
DaemonFC | I've never seen a government computer that wasn't running Windows | Aug 23 20:20 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure their datacenters are another story | Aug 23 20:20 |
_Goblin | how many government systems have you seen? | Aug 23 20:20 |
_Goblin | I take it you havent seen the French Police force.... | Aug 23 20:20 |
DaemonFC | libraries, license branches, court records systems | Aug 23 20:20 |
DaemonFC | lots more | Aug 23 20:20 |
_Goblin | im sure. But the fact people are starting to move away..... | Aug 23 20:21 |
DaemonFC | if they are, I'm not seeing it | Aug 23 20:21 |
_Goblin | PNC | Aug 23 20:21 |
_Goblin | sorry....Police National computer...... | Aug 23 20:21 |
cubezzz | ha! | Aug 23 20:22 |
_Goblin | there are other systems too...I read a paper on them all once....here in the UK the goverment has many non Microsoft systems. | Aug 23 20:23 |
_Goblin | I believe customs use a Linux based system too. | Aug 23 20:24 |
cubezzz | USA is still Microsoftland sure, but Europe is a different story of course | Aug 23 20:24 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: You from UK? | Aug 23 20:24 |
DaemonFC | actually since you mention it, based on the system profiling I've seen, a lot of antivirus software crashes the system just about as often as the malware | Aug 23 20:24 |
cubezzz | people move to where they get the best value, and that's not Microsoft | Aug 23 20:24 |
_Goblin | very true. | Aug 23 20:24 |
cubezzz | _Goblin, Canada now, I was born in N. Ireland | Aug 23 20:24 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft Security Essentials is what I'm using | Aug 23 20:24 |
DaemonFC | doesn't use unsupported and dangerous scanning methods, most of the rest of them do | Aug 23 20:25 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: Wow, Ive relatives in Limerick and in Canada....snap! | Aug 23 20:25 |
_Goblin | although Limerick is S ireland | Aug 23 20:25 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft can adjust their bulk pricing | Aug 23 20:25 |
DaemonFC | to be more affordable than Red Hat or Novell | Aug 23 20:25 |
_Goblin | yep but then what about the shareholders? | Aug 23 20:26 |
cubezzz | I'd like to think it's not all Microsoft in Ireland nowadays | Aug 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | if you want to buy a copy of Windows Server Enterprise Edition, it could be $1,200 | Aug 23 20:26 |
_Goblin | DaemonfC: and all of its other grubby fingers in numerous other pies... | Aug 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | but businesses get it for about 1/10th as much | Aug 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | tiered pricing system | Aug 23 20:26 |
_Goblin | try offering discounts at the moment.....some firms are struggling to pay wages....forget about buy more MS junk. | Aug 23 20:26 |
DaemonFC | actually, all the major Linux distros are trying to cannibalize each other anyway | Aug 23 20:27 |
DaemonFC | why should Microsoft kill them when they're eating each other? | Aug 23 20:27 |
cubezzz | LFS anyone? :) | Aug 23 20:27 |
DaemonFC | "Switch to our distro and we'll support the Linux you're using now for 5 years" | Aug 23 20:28 |
_Goblin | DaemonfC: that is the single most silly thing Ive ever heard....the diversity of Linux is what is its strength......Windows has to be "one size fits all" | Aug 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | Novell will support your RHEL installations for five years if you switch to Suse | Aug 23 20:28 |
cubezzz | of course, Gates and Ballmer need more money, it's obvious! :) | Aug 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | Oracle is also trying to kill Red Hat | Aug 23 20:28 |
_Goblin | daemonfc: and that size is rapidly becoming too tight for many. | Aug 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | they're all attacking Red Hat and trying to suck all their blood out | Aug 23 20:28 |
DaemonFC | they're doing the legwork for Microsoft | Aug 23 20:29 |
_Goblin | lol... | Aug 23 20:29 |
_Goblin | no | Aug 23 20:29 |
_Goblin | Microsoft will defeat itself IMO as people begin to realize whats been happening over the last 10 years..... | Aug 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | right now it's easy for them | Aug 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | cause Red Hat does all the work | Aug 23 20:29 |
DaemonFC | all they have to do is clone RHEL and hire some support guys | Aug 23 20:30 |
_Goblin | 7's biggest competitor is XP.... If XP makes no money how does it fund its grubby pie fingers? | Aug 23 20:30 |
_Goblin | *Microsoft | Aug 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | XP isn't making money for Microsoft, it's spent but the copies they sold are still running | Aug 23 20:30 |
DaemonFC | not generating any more money | Aug 23 20:30 |
_Goblin | yep that what I mean... | Aug 23 20:31 |
_Goblin | thats why its a big competitor to 7 and why MS may defeat itself with its own products. | Aug 23 20:31 |
DaemonFC | Windows 7 on the netbook will be a disaster | Aug 23 20:31 |
DaemonFC | the Windows XP ones run great | Aug 23 20:31 |
DaemonFC | the Windows 7 Starter ones will run like crap | Aug 23 20:32 |
_Goblin | no they don't- I bought one and used it (and reviewed it on my site) | Aug 23 20:32 |
DaemonFC | I think anyone that wants Windows on their netbook better hurry while XP is still around | Aug 23 20:32 |
_Goblin | XP was.........reasonable......great.....definately not. | Aug 23 20:32 |
_Goblin | My Acer netbook struggled with a basic XP installation.... | Aug 23 20:32 |
DaemonFC | I doubt that | Aug 23 20:33 |
_Goblin | I blogged about it at the time. | Aug 23 20:33 |
DaemonFC | I've ran XP on a 550 Mhz K6/2 with 320 megs of RAM | Aug 23 20:33 |
DaemonFC | it was still quite useable | Aug 23 20:33 |
_Goblin | infact I blogged on holiday on it.... | Aug 23 20:33 |
DaemonFC | I've also used it on a 1.3 Ghz Celeron with 256 megs of RAM | Aug 23 20:33 |
DaemonFC | still useable | Aug 23 20:33 |
_Goblin | Acer ASpire One? Thats a netbook. | Aug 23 20:33 |
_Goblin | 16gig SSD | Aug 23 20:33 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the walled world: keeping the povs at bay http://is.gd/2vglp HT @waldyrious | Aug 23 20:34 | |
DaemonFC | yeah, I doubt your netbook is slower than some of the systems I've used XP on | Aug 23 20:34 |
_Goblin | 1.3ghz? I should hope XP is usable......XP is old code. | Aug 23 20:34 |
DaemonFC | "income disparity" ftw! | Aug 23 20:34 |
cubezzz | XP would run like a turd with 256 meg | Aug 23 20:34 |
DaemonFC | lets jsut give them all our money since they don't build their own civilization | Aug 23 20:34 |
cubezzz | even 512 meg is slow | Aug 23 20:34 |
DaemonFC | I mean those primates will gladly sit on oil, diamonds, and gold and silver | Aug 23 20:35 |
_Goblin | Tell you what....On monday I will make a youtube vid showing XP's speed on my machine. | Aug 23 20:35 |
DaemonFC | right under their feet | Aug 23 20:35 |
_Goblin | then you can judge for yourself.... | Aug 23 20:35 |
DaemonFC | they could be the richest people on Earth of the governments in that area would stop being overthrown every month | Aug 23 20:35 |
_Goblin | maybe its because you are used to home Windows systems and that is acceptable....for a linux user the XP performance was unsatisfactory. | Aug 23 20:35 |
DaemonFC | and another banana republic gets set up | Aug 23 20:35 |
DaemonFC | people living like it was 1,000 years ago | Aug 23 20:36 |
cubezzz | like Afghanistan? :) | Aug 23 20:37 |
DaemonFC | if there were AK-47s and rocket launchers 1,000 years ago | Aug 23 20:37 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Aug 23 20:37 |
DaemonFC | Afghanistan precisely | Aug 23 20:37 |
cubezzz | the world is kind of crazy | Aug 23 20:37 |
DaemonFC | they don't value life in those third world countries | Aug 23 20:38 |
DaemonFC | they jsut take bullets for the local warlord | Aug 23 20:38 |
cubezzz | Linux really is interesting, you can download the kernel and modules, tweak it... people don't understand how great that is | Aug 23 20:38 |
DaemonFC | it's insane | Aug 23 20:38 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, yup, we have to be thankful living in North America really | Aug 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | they have nothing else to live for other than turf wars that never end | Aug 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | (Somalia) | Aug 23 20:39 |
DaemonFC | 80% of them in some regions have AIDS | Aug 23 20:40 |
DaemonFC | (or more) | Aug 23 20:40 |
DaemonFC | most of the African continent is as close to hell as you'll get in the entire world | Aug 23 20:40 |
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DaemonFC | uneducated, backwards people, keep reproducing, contaminated drinking water, no food, AIDS, oppressive climate | Aug 23 20:41 |
DaemonFC | might live to be 30 | Aug 23 20:42 |
DaemonFC | of course what happens in places like that is that more than half the population are teenagers | Aug 23 20:42 |
DaemonFC | then you get child soldiers and such | Aug 23 20:43 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz: Be thankful you were born anywhere but there is more like it | Aug 23 20:44 |
DaemonFC | even Mexico isn't nearly that bad | Aug 23 20:44 |
_Goblin | Quote DaemonFC: "uneducated, backwards people" - how compassionate...... | Aug 23 20:54 |
_Goblin | seem ripe for the exploiting by MS then (IMO) | Aug 23 20:55 |
DaemonFC | yeah, just as soon as they have computers in about 500 more years | Aug 23 20:55 |
DaemonFC | ripe for the picking :P | Aug 23 20:55 |
_Goblin | tell me is it a standard proprietary view that peoples worth is dependent on how much money you can make from them? | Aug 23 20:56 |
_Goblin | actually Im being stupid....of course it is. | Aug 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | no, but they have "poor me" syndrome | Aug 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | and "Blame everyone else" syndrome | Aug 23 20:56 |
_Goblin | so? Id say they have good cause...... | Aug 23 20:56 |
DaemonFC | not really | Aug 23 20:56 |
_Goblin | lets look at the developing countries and look back into our own histories.... | Aug 23 20:57 |
DaemonFC | they don't better themselves, they're a group of beggars and complainers | Aug 23 20:57 |
DaemonFC | millions of them | Aug 23 20:57 |
_Goblin | have we acted in their best interests or our own? | Aug 23 20:57 |
DaemonFC | "developing country" is too kind of term | Aug 23 20:57 |
DaemonFC | politically correct term | Aug 23 20:58 |
_Goblin | has the US and UK government got no blame in the situations many developing countries find themselves in? | Aug 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | "permanently undeveloped country" would be more fitting | Aug 23 20:58 |
_Goblin | to somone like you...probably.... | Aug 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | developing presumes that they are advancing | Aug 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | or even have the potential | Aug 23 20:58 |
DaemonFC | or even may gain the potential | Aug 23 20:59 |
_Goblin | so the people are worthless then? (by your standards) | Aug 23 20:59 |
DaemonFC | the UK is responsible for more of the atrocities over there than anyone | Aug 23 20:59 |
DaemonFC | marched in, raped, pillaged, and plundered | Aug 23 21:00 |
_Goblin | don't lets go down a historical route.... | Aug 23 21:00 |
DaemonFC | set them up for the next few hundred years of being undeveloped and begging more advanced countries | Aug 23 21:00 |
DaemonFC | the French had/has a hand in quite a bit of it | Aug 23 21:00 |
_Goblin | Ill agree the UK (like many others) has a past to appologize for, but a saving grace could be that we ourselves are more developed now and it wouldnt happen again.... | Aug 23 21:01 |
DaemonFC | there's a lot of fingers in that particular pie and most of them are not from the United States | Aug 23 21:01 |
_Goblin | lets look into recent history of the US... | Aug 23 21:01 |
DaemonFC | the Russians also manipulate former Soviet satellite states | Aug 23 21:01 |
DaemonFC | so why don't you arbitrarily hate Russians too while you're at it? | Aug 23 21:01 |
_Goblin | Remember how the US outfitted the whats known as the talaban today with weapons to fight the Russians. | Aug 23 21:02 |
*schestowitz wakes up | Aug 23 21:02 | |
DaemonFC | still got a better result than what would happen if the Russians got a foothold there | Aug 23 21:02 |
DaemonFC | and expanded | Aug 23 21:02 |
_Goblin | ? | Aug 23 21:02 |
_Goblin | seriously? | Aug 23 21:02 |
DaemonFC | yes | Aug 23 21:02 |
DaemonFC | they would have seized the oil fields, expanded, taken over pretty much all of Europe by now | Aug 23 21:03 |
DaemonFC | all the middle easy | Aug 23 21:03 |
DaemonFC | &east | Aug 23 21:03 |
_Goblin | Yep, I can see your reasoning....the Invasion of Iraq and afganistan.......of course....it all comes down to oil... | Aug 23 21:03 |
DaemonFC | and we would probably be just trying to stop them from getting further than that | Aug 23 21:03 |
_Goblin | the civilians being brought into a war they didnt ask for. | Aug 23 21:03 |
_Goblin | yep.....God bless the US/UK | Aug 23 21:04 |
DaemonFC | actually, it's worse in Iraq now than when Saddam was there just because the religious fanatics have taken the government | Aug 23 21:04 |
_Goblin | but you still maintain that fighting the Russians was good? | Aug 23 21:05 |
_Goblin | ok... | Aug 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | the Russians were invading Afghanistan | Aug 23 21:05 |
_Goblin | lol..... | Aug 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | I didn't say anything about Iraq | Aug 23 21:05 |
DaemonFC | they would have taken it too though | Aug 23 21:05 |
_Goblin | yes but this "war on terror" .....? | Aug 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | the Russian military, even at modern strength, could plow right over all of Europe within a matter of months | Aug 23 21:06 |
_Goblin | Especially if the US arrived late like they did during WW2 | Aug 23 21:06 |
DaemonFC | they could take countries like Norway probably without even firing a shot | Aug 23 21:06 |
_Goblin | the point is.....All governments are not blameless....its the civilians like me and you that suffer for the decisions of a few people. | Aug 23 21:07 |
DaemonFC | Hitler's rise to power had more to do with cowardice on the part of the UK and France than anything we did | Aug 23 21:07 |
_Goblin | lol... | Aug 23 21:08 |
DaemonFC | all of europe was trying to appease him until he had all his forces built up for an invasion of THEM too | Aug 23 21:08 |
_Goblin | so why did it take the US so long to help? | Aug 23 21:08 |
DaemonFC | then they did something about it | Aug 23 21:08 |
*sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 23 21:08 | |
DaemonFC | the UK was probably the main most directly responsible for allowing Hitler room to grow | Aug 23 21:08 |
_Goblin | and what about Vietnam? It seems the threat of communism overpowered the US too....(if we are talking Iron Curtain Russia) | Aug 23 21:09 |
DaemonFC | the French were trying to fight back the communists before we got there | Aug 23 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | you know | Aug 23 21:09 |
_Goblin | no... | Aug 23 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | stargate the movie is a good parable about the destruction of microsoft | Aug 23 21:09 |
_Goblin | the french foriegn legion was fighting.... | Aug 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | actually, the French jsut seem to strategically retreat | Aug 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | let others get their hands dirty | Aug 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | no matter which war | Aug 23 21:10 |
_Goblin | the french foriegn legion was fighting....I repeat. | Aug 23 21:10 |
Diablo-D3 | a bunch of military guys goes through the "Stargate" (the internet) to nuke aliens (Bill Gates) | Aug 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | the only war they kicked any ass in was when they were fighting themselves | Aug 23 21:10 |
_Goblin | Mind you, credit due....the US managed to drag Australia into that one. | Aug 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | drag them my ass | Aug 23 21:10 |
DaemonFC | more like they were all too eager as long as they got their cut in the end while still badmouthing us | Aug 23 21:11 |
_Goblin | and they still couldnt ferrit out a few "undeveloped" people (your probable words) in a jungle... | Aug 23 21:11 |
DaemonFC | Australia was just another co-conspirator | Aug 23 21:11 |
DaemonFC | when the enemy is willing to die by the hundreds just to take out a few of your guys | Aug 23 21:12 |
DaemonFC | what do you do? | Aug 23 21:12 |
DaemonFC | kill them all is the only way to defeat them | Aug 23 21:12 |
DaemonFC | if you don't have the stomach for that, don't start the war | Aug 23 21:12 |
_Goblin | look this conversation isnt about US/UK/French or anything like that....as I say we dont make the decisions others do.....My government apparently speaks for me as yours does you...... | Aug 23 21:12 |
_Goblin | fact is they don't..... | Aug 23 21:13 |
_Goblin | and its our responsiblity to help developing nations... | Aug 23 21:13 |
_Goblin | IMO | Aug 23 21:13 |
_Goblin | Just because they wont be buying Windows 7 doesnt make them subhuman. | Aug 23 21:13 |
DaemonFC | you have millions of people in the third world who have nothing to live for and a bunch of hand me down Soviet weapons to blow each other up with | Aug 23 21:13 |
DaemonFC | and you if you get in their way | Aug 23 21:13 |
_Goblin | and you speak for all of them? | Aug 23 21:13 |
_Goblin | how do you know? | Aug 23 21:14 |
_Goblin | I take it you dont have children...if you did you would see how childish your post sounds. | Aug 23 21:14 |
DaemonFC | actually, the cold war was "giants in the playground" | Aug 23 21:14 |
DaemonFC | and our "toys" are now in the hands of primatives | Aug 23 21:14 |
_Goblin | and Im very pleased that your view does not represent that of the general US view. | Aug 23 21:15 |
DaemonFC | well, it's like the blacks and the mexicans forming street gangs in major cities | Aug 23 21:15 |
_Goblin | The US people (in my experience) are warm, friendly and welcoming.....you are completely the reverse of anyone Ive ever met.... | Aug 23 21:15 |
DaemonFC | best way to deal with that problem? give them more ammunition | Aug 23 21:16 |
DaemonFC | cause otherwise they may run out and have to go home early | Aug 23 21:16 |
_Goblin | good god. | Aug 23 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | wait wait wait | Aug 23 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | we're friendly? | Aug 23 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | since when? | Aug 23 21:16 |
_Goblin | you really are a vile individual... | Aug 23 21:16 |
_Goblin | not you Diablo... | Aug 23 21:16 |
_Goblin | I mean DaemonFC. | Aug 23 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | yes, but you're claiming americans are warm and friendly | Aug 23 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | we are most decidedly not | Aug 23 21:16 |
_Goblin | all the ones Ive met are. | Aug 23 21:16 |
Diablo-D3 | we invented the nuke | Aug 23 21:17 |
_Goblin | the general populas didnt. | Aug 23 21:17 |
_Goblin | Im sure you didnt. | Aug 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | and if it wasn't us, it would be the Soviets | Aug 23 21:17 |
Diablo-D3 | I coul dhave | Aug 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | or the Nazis | Aug 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | or Imperial Japan | Aug 23 21:17 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: the ... yeah | Aug 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | who would have used them on us | Aug 23 21:17 |
Diablo-D3 | germany was well on their way to one | Aug 23 21:17 |
Diablo-D3 | germany's research gave soviet russia's theirs | Aug 23 21:17 |
DaemonFC | you want to talk high school ethics debate, I think we just were lucky enough to use them first | Aug 23 21:17 |
_Goblin | Diablo-D3: The nuke could be the thing that has prevented more WW......M.A.D and all that. | Aug 23 21:18 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: at any rate, you and DaemonFC are both a little on the twit side | Aug 23 21:18 |
schestowitz | > | Aug 23 21:18 |
schestowitz | <DaemonFC> who would have used them on us | Aug 23 21:18 |
schestowitz | [citation needed] | Aug 23 21:18 |
DaemonFC | if Hitler had the first one, he would have put it on a V-2 | Aug 23 21:18 |
Diablo-D3 | and btw, DaemonFC, you're wrong about the cold war | Aug 23 21:18 |
DaemonFC | instead of a city block of London disappearing, it would have been 90% of London | Aug 23 21:18 |
_Goblin | Diablo-D3: Coming from you I am not particularly offended......sorry. | Aug 23 21:18 |
*sdgsd has quit ("Page closed") | Aug 23 21:18 | |
Diablo-D3 | the cold war was the third movement of the second world war | Aug 23 21:19 |
Diablo-D3 | it started because soviet russia didnt want to give up what they found in germany | Aug 23 21:19 |
DaemonFC | if the Japanese had had them first, they would have used them on the US and then in their war effort against the Chinese | Aug 23 21:19 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: dude no | Aug 23 21:19 |
Diablo-D3 | they would have nuked the mainland first | Aug 23 21:19 |
Diablo-D3 | they could care less about the US | Aug 23 21:19 |
_Goblin | Does it matter? | Aug 23 21:19 |
Diablo-D3 | the attack on pearl harbor was the act of a madman without the orders from his government | Aug 23 21:20 |
_Goblin | This conversation started about DaemonFC cheapening people.... | Aug 23 21:20 |
DaemonFC | the goal was to break the enemy morale and destroy their ability to make war | Aug 23 21:20 |
DaemonFC | I say we were two for two | Aug 23 21:20 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: so how did we get to hitler? | Aug 23 21:20 |
_Goblin | and my view was that we have a responsibility to help them in the developing worlds... | Aug 23 21:20 |
Diablo-D3 | I mean, Godwin's law and all, but wtf | Aug 23 21:20 |
DaemonFC | we don't owe them anything | Aug 23 21:21 |
_Goblin | diablo-d3: We were talking about responsiblity.....and it moved to a history lesson... | Aug 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | you want to give them your money, I won't stop you | Aug 23 21:21 |
DaemonFC | they'll want more tomorrow | Aug 23 21:21 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: I am so pleased I live in the UK and not in your town. | Aug 23 21:21 |
_Goblin | its called human compassion....compassion for others less fortunate than oneself. | Aug 23 21:22 |
DaemonFC | you want to keep giving and they'll keep taking | Aug 23 21:22 |
DaemonFC | they won't build anything with it, they'll jsut know who to ask for more when they're hungry again | Aug 23 21:22 |
_Goblin | and my point was, some of the situations these people find themselves in is due to decisions made by our governments. | Aug 23 21:22 |
DaemonFC | misguided compassion is worse than anything | Aug 23 21:22 |
_Goblin | as I say nobody is blameless.... | Aug 23 21:22 |
DaemonFC | you don't get it | Aug 23 21:22 |
schestowitz | "Russell King has announced that the ARM-related mailing lists on arm.linux.kernel.org will be shut down immediately. He is, it seems, not happy about some of the criticism he has received about the operation of those lists. So the lists will be moving, though exactly where is not entirely clear. " http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/The-Governments-Place-in-the-Cloud-67907.html | Aug 23 21:23 |
_Goblin | and how dare you say my compassion is misguided... | Aug 23 21:23 |
_Goblin | far better than yours. | Aug 23 21:23 |
DaemonFC | feed them? why? so they can live long enough to have children and they either need 4 times as much money or they all starve a couple years later? | Aug 23 21:23 |
_Goblin | you almost want to suggest a culling of humans... | Aug 23 21:23 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: wtf | Aug 23 21:23 |
Diablo-D3 | russell needs smacked down | Aug 23 21:23 |
Diablo-D3 | what a twit | Aug 23 21:23 |
schestowitz | http://lwn.net/Articles/348043/ "Re: Mailing List Etiquette" | Aug 23 21:23 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: They'll cull themselves, they keep trying, but we keep intervening and giving them handouts | Aug 23 21:24 |
DaemonFC | making the problem twice as bad tomorrow to get them to stop bickering now | Aug 23 21:24 |
schestowitz | "Your constant whinging is the reason for the action which has now been taken. The lists are now off line until future notice, when I can deal with the crap that constantly pours out of your keyboard." | Aug 23 21:24 |
schestowitz | Could there be anti-ARM agent provocateurs? | Aug 23 21:24 |
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from _Goblin | Aug 23 21:24 | |
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Goblin | Aug 23 21:25 | |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Tell me that if you were living in Somalia with your family, you wouldnt do everything possible for them? | Aug 23 21:25 |
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Aug 23 21:25 | |
Diablo-D3 | goddamnit | Aug 23 21:25 |
Diablo-D3 | everyone shut up\ | Aug 23 21:25 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: It's their problem, I wish them lots of luck figuring it out for themselves | Aug 23 21:25 |
Diablo-D3 | no more fucking whining about stupid shit | Aug 23 21:25 |
DaemonFC | I'm not going to make their problem worse by trying to help | Aug 23 21:25 |
Diablo-D3 | either spout vile about microsoft or stfu. | Aug 23 21:25 |
schestowitz | Who is Pavel Machek ? | Aug 23 21:26 |
_Goblin | Diablo-D3 since its me and daemon talking and only you complaining...in the spirit of democracy Ill carry on. | Aug 23 21:26 |
schestowitz | http://lkml.org/lkml/2006/11/7/272 | Aug 23 21:26 |
_Goblin | and Diablo I think you meant to say "Bile" not Vile. | Aug 23 21:26 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: If you set up a system where you give someone money every month and food every month, and they never have to work and the money will never stop coming they become fatter, lazier, and even less industrious | Aug 23 21:27 |
DaemonFC | and more people want to get on the system | Aug 23 21:27 |
_Goblin | although I agree MS is pretty vile in its practices. | Aug 23 21:27 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: er, whatever | Aug 23 21:27 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: pavel is one of the big dogs | Aug 23 21:27 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: We have that in the UK....its called the Benefit system. | Aug 23 21:27 |
DaemonFC | then they have children | Aug 23 21:27 |
schestowitz | http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html | Aug 23 21:27 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: he does a lot of the sleep related stuff | Aug 23 21:27 |
schestowitz | This guy is trolling | Aug 23 21:27 |
DaemonFC | and want money and food for them so they can grow up and have lots of little welfare children of their own | Aug 23 21:27 |
_Goblin | but the point is....whats the alternative? let them die? | Aug 23 21:28 |
DaemonFC | it never stops, you can either exponentially increase the handouts | Aug 23 21:28 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: shush already | Aug 23 21:28 |
schestowitz | http://pavelmachek.livejournal.com/ | Aug 23 21:28 |
DaemonFC | or let them fend for themselves while the problem is manageable and they don't depend on you | Aug 23 21:28 |
*cubezzz-laptop has quit ("Leaving") | Aug 23 21:30 | |
_Goblin | in the spirit of remaining relatively on topic, can we agree we have different viewpoints. I do hope that some of what you said though was a joke I was not getting...Compassion is one of the things that makes us human and to suggest a withdrawl of that compassion would be a dark day for humanity. | Aug 23 21:30 |
schestowitz | Oh, look. Borat writes for ECT. http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/The-Governments-Place-in-the-Cloud-67907.html?wlc=1251059332 | Aug 23 21:30 |
DaemonFC | if we give out aide it should be aide | Aug 23 21:30 |
DaemonFC | there should be a benchmark for what is done with the aide, and if all they do is routinely squander it, it should be withdrawn | Aug 23 21:31 |
DaemonFC | foreign aide is usually just bribery to the local regime for political favors later | Aug 23 21:31 |
DaemonFC | the people still starve while the local warlord builds a 14th palace | Aug 23 21:31 |
schestowitz | Nokia is coming to sub-notebooks too: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/4911799.cms?prtpage=1 | Aug 23 21:32 |
_Goblin | schestowitz: After Ive recorded a youtube vid of how bad XP on my netbook is, I am installing Puppy on it....unless you have any better suggestions for an Acer Aspire One. | Aug 23 21:33 |
schestowitz | "Are Macs for left-handed people?" < http://m.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/26506/Are-Macs-for-left-handed-people.phtml > | Aug 23 21:33 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: I suggest you make a respin of your XP disc | Aug 23 21:33 |
DaemonFC | it's fairly easy | Aug 23 21:34 |
DaemonFC | may even solve the problem you are having | Aug 23 21:34 |
schestowitz | Spreads the same "1%" BS | Aug 23 21:34 |
schestowitz | That lie needs to end | Aug 23 21:34 |
schestowitz | The Microsoft press spreads it | Aug 23 21:34 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Ive already investigated....my experiences are regarded as acceptable by other XP users on the netbook.. | Aug 23 21:34 |
DaemonFC | they release a lot of hotfixes that you have to request | Aug 23 21:35 |
DaemonFC | they don't all end up on Windows Update | Aug 23 21:35 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Its simply that Linux performance has spoiled me to expect more. | Aug 23 21:35 |
DaemonFC | http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/updatepack-sp3.html | Aug 23 21:36 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Ive had the thing back to the shop twice....Ive had two replacements since owning it and Ive also used a friends one (as well as looking on the net of other users experiences) | Aug 23 21:36 |
DaemonFC | there's also addon packs for IE 8, DirectX 9 March 2009 , and WMP 11 | Aug 23 21:36 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: what I am experiencing is what is considered "fit for purpose" | Aug 23 21:36 |
DaemonFC | I could probably fix it | Aug 23 21:36 |
_Goblin | I bought the machine in July 09 | Aug 23 21:36 |
_Goblin | sorry June | Aug 23 21:36 |
_Goblin | for my holiday. | Aug 23 21:37 |
_Goblin | To be fair, Im not even bothered if Puppy fouls the system, this netbook has no worth to me with XP on it anyway...its far too slow to be of use.... | Aug 23 21:37 |
DaemonFC | I don't think I've ever used the original XP disc except as a template for a custom setup | Aug 23 21:37 |
_Goblin | You would think I would have learned my lesson with owning an MDA Mail and Windows mobile. | Aug 23 21:38 |
_Goblin | Ballmer must laugh his ass off at people like me. | Aug 23 21:38 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't run any OS with only 256 megs of RAM | Aug 23 21:38 |
_Goblin | niether would I....this netbook has 1gig. | Aug 23 21:38 |
DaemonFC | then XP should run jsut dandy | Aug 23 21:39 |
DaemonFC | I've ran XP with far less than that | Aug 23 21:39 |
DaemonFC | what are you trying to run on it? POV Ray? | Aug 23 21:39 |
DaemonFC | lol | Aug 23 21:39 |
_Goblin | yes.....but a Windows users version of "dandy" and mine are completely different.....As I say, Ive been spoiled by Linux into expecting more. | Aug 23 21:39 |
_Goblin | and no DaemonFC.... | Aug 23 21:40 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi4o2cG_SsI | Aug 23 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | povray would actually run well on an atom | Aug 23 21:40 |
_Goblin | all I wanted was to have Chrome, a small IRC client and Thunderbird running at the same time without constant hanging or the HD light flashing in a fit. | Aug 23 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | I ran it on a 486, after all | Aug 23 21:41 |
_Goblin | it seems that XP and a netbook are incapable of doing that at what I regard as an acceptable speed... | Aug 23 21:41 |
schestowitz | http://asay.blogspot.com/2009/07/spies-like-us.html "OK, I doubt many people have followed this British soap opera, but it's quite funny. John Sawers, the new head of M16, the UK spy agency, inadvertently posted (well, his wife did) personal details of the family on Facebook. So much for secrecy. | Aug 23 21:42 |
schestowitz | " | Aug 23 21:42 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: as I say, for a Windows home user this speed might be acceptable and one they are used to. I am not. I expect more, especially when I paid extra for a proprietary solution. | Aug 23 21:42 |
_Goblin | Schestowitz: I covered this (briefly) a while ago on my blog: http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/a-facebook-of-ballmer-kiss-audition/ | Aug 23 21:43 |
schestowitz | "just unfollowed @glynmoody; not cause he's nothing interesting to say, the opposite, too much interesting stuff; will stick to his blog now" http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/08/perils-of-following-glynmoody.html | Aug 23 21:44 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: be warned that the demon injects Windows content into this channel | Aug 23 21:44 |
_Goblin | I saw.... | Aug 23 21:46 |
_Goblin | thats why I dont like being OP! | Aug 23 21:46 |
DaemonFC | Chrome, and IRC client, and Thunderbird? | Aug 23 21:47 |
_Goblin | it puts me on the spot as to if its trolling, vileness or simply stupidity! | Aug 23 21:47 |
DaemonFC | you can run all that in 1 gig easily without hard disk thrashing | Aug 23 21:47 |
_Goblin | as I say, its the time it takes to complete tasks..... | Aug 23 21:47 |
schestowitz | The JBoss man's depressed... http://www.thedelphicfuture.org/2009/07/little-souvenir-of-terrible-year.html | Aug 23 21:48 |
DaemonFC | not much time really | Aug 23 21:48 |
_Goblin | the Linux version of the same netbook was blisteringly fast. | Aug 23 21:48 |
_Goblin | and do please ask why I didnt want that one.... | Aug 23 21:48 |
DaemonFC | I'd assume you're leaving it bogged down with Norton or something | Aug 23 21:48 |
_Goblin | no... | Aug 23 21:48 |
schestowitz | Dongle | Aug 23 21:48 |
_Goblin | yep.....the ironic thing was when I reached the holiday destination I hardwired the connection with the provided broadband! | Aug 23 21:49 |
_Goblin | didnt even need the damn dongle! | Aug 23 21:49 |
DaemonFC | shouldn't it be wireless? | Aug 23 21:49 |
schestowitz | IBM, Other Multinationals "Detaching" From the US < http://slashdot.org/story/09/08/22/1825208/IBM-Other-Multinationals-Detaching-From-the-US?from=rss > Ah! The 'free' market | Aug 23 21:50 |
_Goblin | yep.... | Aug 23 21:50 |
_Goblin | the connection wasnt.... | Aug 23 21:50 |
schestowitz | Gotta love a little bit of that 'freedom' (As in free market) | Aug 23 21:50 |
_Goblin | it was hardwired or nothing. | Aug 23 21:50 |
_Goblin | I think on the basis of this conversation I will do a before and after video of the Acer Netbook...... | Aug 23 21:51 |
DaemonFC | http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com | Aug 23 21:51 |
_Goblin | it will be interesting to show just how much quicker it is with Linux whilst retaining all of the functionality. | Aug 23 21:52 |
schestowitz | Here is why I don't read /. anymore. They advertise Microsoft. http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/08/21/0116243/Windows-7-Igniting-Touchscreen-PC-Market?from=rss | Aug 23 21:52 |
DaemonFC | Can you even use a touchscreen in GNOME or KDE? | Aug 23 21:53 |
_Goblin | I refuse to buy from a company that "recommends Windows Vista" if the company recommends that then they clearly do not know anything about what they are selling.... | Aug 23 21:54 |
*Eruaran has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Aug 23 21:54 | |
DaemonFC | Dell recommends Windows :) | Aug 23 21:54 |
_Goblin | Touchscreen.....show me how many wouldbe 7 users are using that feature. | Aug 23 21:54 |
_Goblin | MS must have liked the NDS | Aug 23 21:54 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: They'll be selling them, they already sell them with Vista | Aug 23 21:55 |
DaemonFC | they just don't work as well | Aug 23 21:55 |
_Goblin | yep....and I see them jumping off the shelves. | Aug 23 21:55 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 21:55 |
DaemonFC | and 10 years from now it'll be all anyone uses | Aug 23 21:55 |
DaemonFC | and Mac and Linux will be accusing Windows of copying them | Aug 23 21:55 |
_Goblin | Well you could argue that MS have copied it from Nintendo.... | Aug 23 21:56 |
_Goblin | or if you want to go further back.... | Aug 23 21:56 |
_Goblin | the ZX spectrum and its lightpen. | Aug 23 21:56 |
_Goblin | oh and by the way I saw that MS promo vid. | Aug 23 21:57 |
_Goblin | frightening..... | Aug 23 21:57 |
DaemonFC | That's why the Windows 7 taskbar looks like it does btw | Aug 23 21:57 |
_Goblin | every facet of our lives having a MS logo..... | Aug 23 21:57 |
DaemonFC | but even if an application isn't designed for a touchscreen, it still works just as well | Aug 23 21:57 |
_Goblin | shame Ballmers wet dream is looking less likely every day. | Aug 23 21:57 |
schestowitz | http://www.penguinpetes.com/Doomed_to_Obscurity/index.php?strip=0000119.jpg | Aug 23 21:57 |
DaemonFC | I've used Firefox and Opera on Windows 7 with a touchscreen | Aug 23 21:57 |
DaemonFC | works just as well as in IE | Aug 23 21:57 |
_Goblin | wow..... | Aug 23 21:57 |
_Goblin | MS given up on the browser war then? | Aug 23 21:58 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: sure you can use touchscreen in Linux | Aug 23 21:58 |
schestowitz | Don't be a sillt wabbit | Aug 23 21:58 |
DaemonFC | so you don't need special applications for it | Aug 23 21:58 |
Diablo-D3 | X directly supports touchscreens | Aug 23 21:58 |
Diablo-D3 | so stfu | Aug 23 21:58 |
Diablo-D3 | it also natively supports wacom tablets | Aug 23 21:58 |
DaemonFC | I saw a few drivers for specific models in the kernel | Aug 23 21:58 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGKqMJOoF-o | Aug 23 21:58 |
DaemonFC | probably nothing that you're likely to have, just something a Linux kernel developer has | Aug 23 21:59 |
DaemonFC | like wifi and TV tuner cards for the first years | Aug 23 21:59 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: so, when are you going to ban DaemonFC again? | Aug 23 21:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W39BMLuIhA&feature=related | Aug 23 21:59 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: ask _Goblin | Aug 23 21:59 |
Diablo-D3 | _Goblin: do it. | Aug 23 21:59 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC is not afraid of him | Aug 23 21:59 |
schestowitz | But he doesn't do anything to be banned now | Aug 23 22:00 |
DaemonFC | so if I load Firefox on Ubuntu or want to navigate through GNOME or resize windows with my fingers, or bring up menus and copy and paste and drag and drop files, it'll do that? | Aug 23 22:01 |
DaemonFC | or is it jsut a few apps with a few models of screens? | Aug 23 22:01 |
schestowitz | No. | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | VIsta 7 is rubbish | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | Microsoft knows it | Aug 23 22:02 |
DaemonFC | seems to me that proper desktop integration for touchscreens in GNOME or KDE is probably 3-5 years out | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | So it's trying to use hardware to spice it up | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | "What is New with Vista 7?" | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: "oh! It has touchscreen" | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | "No, no, but it's hardrware" | Aug 23 22:02 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: "yes, but now it's supported" | Aug 23 22:03 |
schestowitz | "But wait, Linux has done this _for years_" | Aug 23 22:03 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: "yeah, we tend to be behind" | Aug 23 22:03 |
schestowitz | It's all marleting | Aug 23 22:03 |
DaemonFC | like how Ubuntu has hardly changed in the last 3 years except some of your applications crash and burn when they play audio? :D | Aug 23 22:03 |
schestowitz | *Marketing | Aug 23 22:03 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu != Linux | Aug 23 22:03 |
DaemonFC | nobody cares if there's 300 new drivers that only matter if you're on big iron, some drivers for consumer hardware would be nice though | Aug 23 22:04 |
schestowitz | KDE 3: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=kde%203&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi | Aug 23 22:04 |
DaemonFC | but the big iron stuff makes the kernel lines of source go up like crazy | Aug 23 22:04 |
DaemonFC | so it's good theater | Aug 23 22:04 |
schestowitz | KDE4: http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=kde+4&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Aug 23 22:04 |
schestowitz | Microsoft relies on people being _srupid_ | Aug 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | News: | Aug 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | http://www.nillabyte.com/blog.php?b=203 | Aug 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | "Windows 7 will be released soon, and although there is actually lots of positive buzz about their latest product (in comparison to a lot of negative buzz about Vista), there simply aren't that many new features in 7." | Aug 23 22:05 |
DaemonFC | so if there's 3 million lines of source and only 300 of those lines may matter to me, is there any reason for me to care? | Aug 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | "I maintain the suspicion that the whole Windows Mojave experiment was just a ploy by Microsoft to see if they could get away with repackaging and renaming Vista with only a few minor improvements. No more improvement than I would expect with each subsequent release of Ubuntu. The difference is that Ubuntu takes six months to put out a new release, and Microsoft takes at least two years." | Aug 23 22:05 |
DaemonFC | I might get a whole new driver that matters to me about every 4 years | Aug 23 22:05 |
schestowitz | The oldest PR scam in the book: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10315648-92.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 (Ellison's salary drops to $1) | Aug 23 22:07 |
schestowitz | Oh no... poor Ellison.. he's so poor and humble... let's buy Oracle to help him | Aug 23 22:07 |
schestowitz | Apple and Google plays the same stupid game | Aug 23 22:07 |
schestowitz | *play | Aug 23 22:07 |
DaemonFC | "He is the world's fourth wealthiest person, according to Forbes." | Aug 23 22:07 |
DaemonFC | so he could never make any more money for the rest of his life and still die as a billionaire | Aug 23 22:08 |
DaemonFC | cool | Aug 23 22:08 |
schestowitz | The criminal organisation has just bought two more teams to join the posse; http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10315534-64.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 | Aug 23 22:08 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: If compassion is a part of human nature, why does the government have to fleece everyone and forcibly seize their income to run welfare programs? | Aug 23 22:09 |
DaemonFC | because humans aren't compassionate or charitable and lots of people die at age 100 with billions of dollars while millions die every day from starvation | Aug 23 22:09 |
schestowitz | We talk to the developers behind MenuetOS: an operating system written entirely in assembly language < http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/315421/we_talk_developers_behind_menuetos_an_operating_system_written_entirely_assembly_language > | Aug 23 22:10 |
DaemonFC | if the government didn't seize the income there would be no food for the "hungry" | Aug 23 22:11 |
schestowitz | Money is created out of thin air | Aug 23 22:11 |
schestowitz | Distributing it would mean little | Aug 23 22:11 |
DaemonFC | holy shit, that is the sneakiest advertisement ever | Aug 23 22:11 |
DaemonFC | they wrapped an Office ad aroudn the page you linked to | Aug 23 22:11 |
schestowitz | People tend to think that money can be converted into food or something | Aug 23 22:12 |
_Goblin | bbl - but daemon....youve answered your own questions...the UK government makes its own decisions (for example) not mine.... | Aug 23 22:12 |
DaemonFC | you can feed ducks with quarters | Aug 23 22:12 |
DaemonFC | if they eat enough of them, they'll sink, sometimes you can name them first | Aug 23 22:12 |
DaemonFC | :D | Aug 23 22:12 |
schestowitz | Wikipedia reaches 3 million articles, stalls and dies < http://notnews.today.com/2009/08/18/wikipedia-reaches-3-million-articles-stalls-and-dies/ > | Aug 23 22:13 |
schestowitz | yan rejoices | Aug 23 22:13 |
DaemonFC | one of my favorite South Park episodes, where they cured AIDS by liquifying millions of dollars and pumping it into people through an IV | Aug 23 22:14 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: and you know whats funny? | Aug 23 22:14 |
Diablo-D3 | if that actually worked, and I was the richest man alive, I'd easily give up all my money for that | Aug 23 22:14 |
tessier | _Goblin: The threat of communism nowhere overpowered the US. | Aug 23 22:15 |
schestowitz | Facebook sacking highlights hidden dangers of stupidity < http://notnews.today.com/2009/08/17/facebook-sacking-highlights-hidden-dangers-of-stupidity/ > | Aug 23 22:15 |
tessier | The US is defeating communism in Vietnam even today. | Aug 23 22:15 |
DaemonFC | the message was that they always ask for billions of dolalrs to fight AIDS | Aug 23 22:15 |
DaemonFC | and how everyone in those African countries still has it | Aug 23 22:16 |
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Aug 23 22:18 | |
schestowitz | balzac: http://www.thezimbabwetimes.com/?p=21589 | Aug 23 22:20 |
schestowitz | /. says "GNU". Weird... http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/08/21/1155217/Nokia-Leaks-Phone-With-Full-GNULinux-Distribution | Aug 23 22:21 |
tessier | schestowitz: More to do with the submitter or editor I imagine. | Aug 23 22:22 |
schestowitz | tessier: yes, that's what I reckoned | Aug 23 22:22 |
schestowitz | "This week, though, Todd Weiss, writing on Linux.com, discussed how many analysts see the move as allowing VMware "to tie virtualization directly to applications without requiring a separate operating system." Could VMware have its eye on the fast-growing Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) arena, aiming to deliver virtualized apps that users and IT administrators can hop in and out of without a tie to a parent OS?" | Aug 23 22:23 |
schestowitz | http://ostatic.com/blog/vmwares-springsource-acquisition-more-than-meets-the-eye | Aug 23 22:23 |
schestowitz | Weiss mailed me on Friday. We'll get some exposure coming Monday. | Aug 23 22:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux.com is still b0rked. All the pages return a DB error, no matter the CMS being used for the different parts. | Aug 23 22:24 | |
DaemonFC | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125090339313750961.html | Aug 23 22:24 |
DaemonFC | We give them handouts, they give us diseases | Aug 23 22:24 |
Diablo-D3 | who owns linux.com? | Aug 23 22:25 |
tessier | schestowitz: Who is Weiss? What sort of exposure? | Aug 23 22:25 |
schestowitz | Starting a Bank < http://ma.tt/2009/08/starting-a-bank/ > | Aug 23 22:26 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: Linux Foundation (IBM & gang) | Aug 23 22:27 |
schestowitz | tessier: an article quiting us on Moonlight | Aug 23 22:27 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: could be sched'ed maint | Aug 23 22:27 |
schestowitz | http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2009/08/21/links-for-2009-08-21/ "say what you will about the (acknowledged) naivete of this, but seriously – do you know anyone who loves their bank? interesting that i thought of USAA when reading this and Matt mentions that's the closest example he could think of." | Aug 23 22:28 |
Diablo-D3 | USAA is very loved | Aug 23 22:29 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: maybe. It's a Sunday | Aug 23 22:29 |
Diablo-D3 | as is PenFed | Aug 23 22:29 |
DaemonFC | Opera is getting blisteringly fast in DOM operations | Aug 23 22:33 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz andy updegrove's blog is broken too. and rationalwiki. it's like a billion mysqls screaming then silent! | Aug 23 22:33 | |
*fewa has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)) | Aug 23 22:33 | |
schestowitz | I've not read Matt in years, but he's making some good posts. http://ma.tt/2009/08/kill-your-community/ | Aug 23 22:33 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GPL FUD round N+1 < http://ping.fm/KlzNy > | Aug 23 22:35 | |
DaemonFC | what amuses me is that Opera is a small Norwegian company with a handful of employees and still manages to support web standards better than Mozilla Gecko, which is open source supposedly has hundreds of developers | Aug 23 22:35 |
schestowitz | They have a lead, head start | Aug 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | There's been several months of work on the Gecko trunk since Firefox 3.5 | Aug 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | and all they have to show on ACID 3 is that they pass 94 tests instead of 93 | Aug 23 22:36 |
DaemonFC | Opera has passed ACID 3 since last December | Aug 23 22:36 |
schestowitz | If only Opera GPLed, I'd probably use it | Aug 23 22:37 |
*tessier is looking forward to Chrome | Aug 23 22:37 | |
DaemonFC | now they've fine tuned the engine for better performance on all the tests they pass | Aug 23 22:37 |
DaemonFC | there's only three tests that get a bad performance rating on Opera | Aug 23 22:37 |
DaemonFC | there's 16 that get that on Firefox and 6 tests that are unsupported | Aug 23 22:37 |
schestowitz | How to: an introduction to GTK+ treeviews and autocompletion < http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2009/08/howto-an-introduction-to-gtk-treeviews-and-autocompletion.ars > | Aug 23 22:38 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 fails 80 tests and the bad performance notes of the other 20 overflow the dialog bog | Aug 23 22:38 |
DaemonFC | *box | Aug 23 22:38 |
schestowitz | tessier: Google domination in browser scares me a little | Aug 23 22:38 |
schestowitz | IE8 support 'more' than standards...even ActiveX | Aug 23 22:38 |
schestowitz | Back in 2007 there were speculations that Microsoft would buy Opera | Aug 23 22:39 |
DaemonFC | I was kind of thinking that may be why Opera was complaining about them | Aug 23 22:39 |
DaemonFC | trying to provoke some kind of lucrative buyout offer from Microsoft | Aug 23 22:39 |
DaemonFC | although if IE ditched Trident for Presto, it would be game over for Firefox | Aug 23 22:40 |
DaemonFC | it'll never happen of course | Aug 23 22:40 |
DaemonFC | I'd buyout Opera if I was Microsoft, beats paying thousands of people to hack away on Trident after letting it stagnate for about 6 years | Aug 23 22:41 |
DaemonFC | of course they've painted themselves into a corner with IE, IE must now have support for all the crap introduced into IE 6 or else it may break applications that embed it | Aug 23 22:41 |
schestowitz | Opera won't sell | Aug 23 22:41 |
schestowitz | Lie won't let it | Aug 23 22:41 |
schestowitz | They are Linux users many of them | Aug 23 22:42 |
DaemonFC | enough money and anything is for sale | Aug 23 22:42 |
DaemonFC | if I was Microsoft I'd shift out the IE engine into what you'd get if you requested it to be embedded and Presto would be the rendering engine if you specifically asked for it or were using IE as a browser | Aug 23 22:43 |
DaemonFC | that would probably work | Aug 23 22:43 |
schestowitz | http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/desktop_mobile/microsoft_will_push_two_versions_of_mobile_os_say_rumors.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535 | Aug 23 22:43 |
schestowitz | "Windows CE, whoops, its been "RENAMED" to Windows Mobile or WinMO, or maybe Zunephone this week, who knows. But the point is by Nick's own words: ""Windows Mobile 7" due to roll out in the fourth quarter of 2010." Yes, this means that its vaporware." | Aug 23 22:43 |
schestowitz | More hype from Microsoft PR [watch[ | Aug 23 22:44 |
DaemonFC | there's quite a few popular browsers that just embed Trident | Aug 23 22:44 |
DaemonFC | Maxthon is quite popular in China, it does that | Aug 23 22:44 |
DaemonFC | you just get whatever Trident engine that's installed on the system | Aug 23 22:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/advertising_search/microsoft-yahoo_alliance_isnt_a_short-term_google_threat.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535 | Aug 23 22:44 |
schestowitz | "A nice title for an article Nick. In my opinion its not an long-term threat either. Bill and Steve's attempt to "take over the internet," so to speak, sort of reminds me of the Spielberg cartoon, Pinky and the Brain, where their mission was to "take over the world." As for Bill and Steve, I leave it to you to decide which was Pinky, and which is the Brain." | Aug 23 22:44 |
schestowitz | Chips is almost trolling him there | Aug 23 22:45 |
schestowitz | But I guess he doesn't like it when sites turn to Microsoft PR.. veiled advertising as 'articles' | Aug 23 22:45 |
DaemonFC | the nice thing about ad blocking with Opera is that it doesn't require an extension, just a file with rules for what to block | Aug 23 22:45 |
DaemonFC | and a style sheet that takes care of the whitespace | Aug 23 22:45 |
schestowitz | Same with Firefox | Aug 23 22:46 |
schestowitz | Since pre-1.0 | Aug 23 22:46 |
schestowitz | I used to do it that way | Aug 23 22:46 |
schestowitz | userContent.css or something like that in the profile dir | Aug 23 22:47 |
DaemonFC | Firefox needs the adblock plus extension and that's been detected by scripts | Aug 23 22:47 |
DaemonFC | who forward you to nag pages | Aug 23 22:47 |
schestowitz | Thunderbird has that extension too | Aug 23 22:49 |
schestowitz | I do 80% or so of my browsing in Thunderbird with Thunderbrowse | Aug 23 22:49 |
schestowitz | http://thunderbrowse.com/ | Aug 23 22:49 |
DaemonFC | that's kind of backwards | Aug 23 22:53 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu's multisearch surprise < http://lwn.net/Articles/345945/ >. Issue resolved now, but the LWN article has just been made available to non-subs | Aug 23 22:53 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: not at all | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | Allows you to browse pages as though they are mail messages | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | From RSS | Aug 23 22:54 |
DaemonFC | old rendering engine | Aug 23 22:54 |
DaemonFC | known security bugs | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | Can flag, move around, open in tabs, etc. | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | Very fast | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | No need for Browser+mail+RSS | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | All in one | Aug 23 22:54 |
schestowitz | Nope | Aug 23 22:55 |
schestowitz | Thunderbird 2.0.22 just released | Aug 23 22:55 |
schestowitz | Secure, same new rendering engine | Aug 23 22:55 |
schestowitz | JS disabled for fast browsing | Aug 23 22:55 |
schestowitz | Hyper-threading | Aug 23 22:55 |
schestowitz | Thunderbird is my most used app | Aug 23 22:55 |
DaemonFC | doesn't it still use the older version of Gecko | Aug 23 22:56 |
schestowitz | My boss uses Outlook a lot, but only for lots of junk. He's old-skool | Aug 23 22:56 |
DaemonFC | the one from Firefox 2? | Aug 23 22:56 |
schestowitz | Maybe | Aug 23 22:56 |
schestowitz | http://lwn.net/Articles/348233/ | Aug 23 22:56 |
schestowitz | I must admit. | Aug 23 22:56 |
schestowitz | Linux moved very fast | Aug 23 22:56 |
schestowitz | Microsoft -- NOTHING this summer | Aug 23 22:57 |
schestowitz | Zune HD | Aug 23 22:57 |
schestowitz | That's about it | Aug 23 22:57 |
schestowitz | THe company is at a standstill | Aug 23 22:57 |
DaemonFC | 24.3% arch/arm/ (meaningless to me) | Aug 23 22:57 |
schestowitz | No wonder in the past two Qs profits fell so sharply | Aug 23 22:57 |
schestowitz | Down by about 30% | Aug 23 22:57 |
DaemonFC | actually, only about 15-20% of the changes even might mean anything to me | Aug 23 22:57 |
schestowitz | Meaningless to Microsoft too | Aug 23 22:58 |
schestowitz | That's why Linux has leverage in so many architectures | Aug 23 22:58 |
schestowitz | That's why embedded devices run Linux | Aug 23 22:58 |
schestowitz | That's why so many people develop Linux | Aug 23 22:58 |
schestowitz | No, it's not for _you_, MSDN BHOY | Aug 23 22:59 |
DaemonFC | and after 3 years it still doesn't support the AverMedia M780 | Aug 23 22:59 |
DaemonFC | yay! | Aug 23 22:59 |
schestowitz | Tell Aver | Aug 23 22:59 |
DaemonFC | so you're just kind of SOL if the kernel developers don't have the same hardware as you | Aug 23 22:59 |
DaemonFC | or if a big company like Nvidia doesn't provide a binary driver | Aug 23 22:59 |
DaemonFC | Aver does release *some* binary Linux drivers that give you some functionality but not for their white box parts | Aug 23 23:00 |
DaemonFC | those are "meant for Windows Media Center" | Aug 23 23:00 |
DaemonFC | so there's a good chance that Linux will never work with the TV tuner card you got in your Media Center PC | Aug 23 23:01 |
schestowitz | SUSE guy gets rolin' http://blog.f-seidel.de/?p=122 | Aug 23 23:01 |
DaemonFC | that's a big reason I still have Windows | Aug 23 23:02 |
schestowitz | This 'problem' is already reolved. Don't buy AverMedia until they sort/get their act together | Aug 23 23:03 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't have to be designed just for me and I don't have to worry that some hobbyist has the same add-on cards | Aug 23 23:03 |
DaemonFC | and wrote a driver that exposes the features he happens to care about | Aug 23 23:03 |
DaemonFC | a real driver from the company that made the product supports everything the hardware does | Aug 23 23:04 |
DaemonFC | Linux gets that ease of use with things like Nvidia because millions of people have them and want some kind of guaranteed acceptable support | Aug 23 23:05 |
DaemonFC | in the corporate world, people get fired if they don't have a driver ready when the new Windows hits the ground in any kind of reputable vendor | Aug 23 23:06 |
DaemonFC | that driver may never come if you just wait for John Doe to write it | Aug 23 23:06 |
DaemonFC | I don't care how many lines of code are in it that make it work on ARM or PowerPC or with CPU hotplugging, I care about *my* system, and disabling half of *my* system is unacceptable | Aug 23 23:07 |
_Goblin | Quote "n the corporate world, people get fired if they don't have a driver ready when the new Windows hits the ground" - There must have been many fired at the release of Vista then.....infact mainstream press is reporting an issue with Monitor resolutions in 7 so there could be a few more people out of work. | Aug 23 23:08 |
DaemonFC | Nvidia has a WHQL certified driver out for every feature on every one of their cards | Aug 23 23:09 |
DaemonFC | as of two days ago | Aug 23 23:09 |
DaemonFC | including the entire PhysX API | Aug 23 23:09 |
DaemonFC | sometimes they don't support the new Linux kernel or the new X for months | Aug 23 23:09 |
DaemonFC | *after* they are out | Aug 23 23:09 |
_Goblin | On the basis of what you have said, I bet there are one or two people praying very hard at the moment. | Aug 23 23:09 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Please dont try to fudge. Look at Vista as an example......people waited quite a while for compat issues to be sorted out. | Aug 23 23:10 |
DaemonFC | so yeah, if you use Fedora or something and that distro doesn't give a shit about what Nvidia is up to, you may have to hold off upgrading for a couple months | Aug 23 23:10 |
DaemonFC | that happened when Fedora 9 was out btw | Aug 23 23:10 |
_Goblin | and thats forgetting the fact that they were led to believe Vista required alot lower specs than it really did. | Aug 23 23:11 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu doesn't have that problem because they decide what to ship based on what the binary drivers support | Aug 23 23:11 |
_Goblin | and we are now supposed to beleive MS's claims about 7? | Aug 23 23:11 |
DaemonFC | so they eventually give Nvidia veto power over what Ubuntu has in it in any release | Aug 23 23:11 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has shipped with old versions of X.org and the kernel to satisfy binary drivers before | Aug 23 23:12 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: At least with Linux you have a choice of distros....with Windows if you have a compat issue you are stuffed....."One size fits all". | Aug 23 23:12 |
schestowitz | Jono Bacon: The Art of Community < http://reverendted.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/jono-bacon-the-art-of-community/ > | Aug 23 23:12 |
DaemonFC | actually, Windows 7 supported everything in my computer | Aug 23 23:13 |
_Goblin | good for you..... | Aug 23 23:13 |
DaemonFC | there were some updates on Windows Update, but everything works right off the disc | Aug 23 23:13 |
_Goblin | so does every distro of Linux Ive tried. | Aug 23 23:13 |
_Goblin | except far faster. | Aug 23 23:13 |
_Goblin | than when I was running Windows. | Aug 23 23:13 |
DaemonFC | Linux is an oddball | Aug 23 23:13 |
_Goblin | of course. | Aug 23 23:13 |
schestowitz | Vista 7 doesn't work for many peole | Aug 23 23:14 |
DaemonFC | in some ways it's very mature and advanced, but in just as many ways it's infantile and buggy and going through biurthing pains | Aug 23 23:14 |
DaemonFC | it's not consistent | Aug 23 23:14 |
schestowitz | People who try it are fanboys and MSDN subscribers | Aug 23 23:14 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: You are of course right.....all Linux users must obviously be liars and spend their time talking about experiences that they dont have..... | Aug 23 23:14 |
schestowitz | They are naturally biased | Aug 23 23:14 |
schestowitz | They also have PCs that they bought with Vista preinstalled | Aug 23 23:15 |
schestowitz | So of course Vista2 (7) will work OK | Aug 23 23:15 |
DaemonFC | well, if you're telling people to format a working copy of XP or Vista off and install Linux | Aug 23 23:15 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: As we say around here "have a day off" think about your weak argument.....I never said that.... | Aug 23 23:15 |
DaemonFC | you should be able to assure them that Linux works on that system just as well | Aug 23 23:15 |
_Goblin | Unlike proprietary pushers like you I dont seek to tell people to do anything....I give my experiences and let them make an informed choice that is best for them. | Aug 23 23:16 |
DaemonFC | and there's no guarantee the boot CD will even make it past GRUB | Aug 23 23:16 |
schestowitz | Why is the DOT in NYC? http://reverendted.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/open-source-for-america/ | Aug 23 23:16 |
_Goblin | bit like the Vista experiience. | Aug 23 23:16 |
schestowitz | Or is that WA DC? | Aug 23 23:16 |
DaemonFC | no Linux fansite ever has a "What about GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB GRUB?" "Why the hell did it drop me in BusyBox?" "Where is my hardware?" | Aug 23 23:17 |
DaemonFC | just as surely as every Windows fansite will tell you that all of Windows problems are to be ignored and not talked about | Aug 23 23:18 |
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.113.23.63.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 23 23:18 | |
_Goblin | DaemonFC - The proprietary pusher who tries to sell in a Linux majority chat room..... | Aug 23 23:18 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Youve proved something. Theres no way you are on the payroll of Microsoft. Since they are cutting so much fat you would have been the first to go. | Aug 23 23:18 |
DaemonFC | It's like the Paul Thurrott sites are all Fox News and the Linux sites tend to be The Rachel Maddow Show | Aug 23 23:19 |
_Goblin | and Microsoft sites? | Aug 23 23:19 |
DaemonFC | there's no in between, nobody telling the truth because they're too egotistical | Aug 23 23:19 |
_Goblin | lol | Aug 23 23:19 |
_Goblin | Those "feature rich" Microsoft buzzwords | Aug 23 23:19 |
_Goblin | as transparent as one of Ballmers shirts after a stage performance. | Aug 23 23:19 |
DaemonFC | the only guarantee you have with Linux is that when you hit a snag you didn't pay $300 for it | Aug 23 23:20 |
DaemonFC | I'll give it that much | Aug 23 23:20 |
_Goblin | lol. | Aug 23 23:20 |
_Goblin | and with MS even paying £300 might not solve it. | Aug 23 23:20 |
DaemonFC | but there are snags | Aug 23 23:20 |
DaemonFC | and saying there aren't any just proves who the fanboy is | Aug 23 23:21 |
_Goblin | I didnt say there wasnt.......why are you telling lies..? | Aug 23 23:21 |
_Goblin | or are you shifting between realities? | Aug 23 23:21 |
_Goblin | I don't recall in this universe ever saying that Linux was flawless. | Aug 23 23:22 |
ThistleWeb | I see DaemonFC is bored again | Aug 23 23:22 |
DaemonFC | oh, it's just that the attitude that you've "come to expect more" from a piece of middleware is amusing and should be mocked | Aug 23 23:22 |
ThistleWeb | whipping up another fight | Aug 23 23:22 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Mock away....if it makes you feel better. | Aug 23 23:22 |
*ThistleWeb will have to check which Daemon nick he ignored, and add the rest to the list | Aug 23 23:22 | |
_Goblin | Thistleweb: You've missed some crackers from him tonight... | Aug 23 23:22 |
ThistleWeb | I don't doubt it | Aug 23 23:23 |
DaemonFC | that's like saying "I used to eat Kroger generic poptarts but the Walmart generic brand poptarts have made me expect more from my poptarts" | Aug 23 23:23 |
ThistleWeb | I did notice a few times over the last few days peeps responding to a name I had ignored, so I was only seeing part of the convo | Aug 23 23:23 |
_Goblin | Thistleweb: Seriously you have to check out his views on people from developing countries....the (his words) "Uneducated" | Aug 23 23:23 |
DaemonFC | don't forget backwards | Aug 23 23:24 |
DaemonFC | and hopeless | Aug 23 23:24 |
ThistleWeb | I was tempted to unignore again, but since I keep forgetting how to ignore on IRC I thought it better to resist it | Aug 23 23:24 |
_Goblin | Thistleweb: I would strongly recommend you don't ignore....He's providing great entertainment whilst I wait for Summerslam. | Aug 23 23:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard yes, I noticed the commonality | Aug 23 23:25 | |
ThistleWeb | he has the political / social intelligence of a bigoted toadstool, I expect no less | Aug 23 23:25 |
*Xarver (n=quassel@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 23 23:25 | |
_Goblin | Thistleweb: He has provided some great quotes next time I need a comment from a Microsoft advocate on my blog. | Aug 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | Liberal: Just give all your earned money to bums so they can go buy heroin and malt liquor | Aug 23 23:25 |
DaemonFC | Liberal: Just give them all they want, or you're a total bastard | Aug 23 23:26 |
DaemonFC | :D | Aug 23 23:26 |
DaemonFC | Liberal: Doesn't matter if you need it, we'll take it from you anyway | Aug 23 23:26 |
ThistleWeb | I do notice those who like to cause probs have several names on IRC | Aug 23 23:26 |
ThistleWeb | so they can temporarily get past bans | Aug 23 23:26 |
ThistleWeb | can you ignore all names registered to the same user in one swoop? | Aug 23 23:27 |
ThistleWeb | or is it a one-at-a-time thing? | Aug 23 23:27 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: Beggars get mad if you don't just give them the money, my charity expired when I bought someone some food and they threw it on the ground and cussed me out because I wouldn't hand them a $20 so they could "get food" | Aug 23 23:28 |
DaemonFC | that's what people are really like | Aug 23 23:28 |
ThistleWeb | hang on, DaemonFC is the only person on my ignore list and I can see him, what am I doing wrong? | Aug 23 23:28 |
ThistleWeb | ahh, opera | Aug 23 23:29 |
ThistleWeb | he has a touch of the Mutex's about him methinks | Aug 23 23:29 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: I was burgled by our nieghbour....should I hate all nieghbours? | Aug 23 23:30 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Kid Cudi Ft. David Guetta - Memories (FULL VERSION AUGUST 2009)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~c70mf | Aug 23 23:31 | |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: wow...you had one alleged bad experience which gives you the justification to damn millions of people....great argument. | Aug 23 23:31 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Ive said before, you would be a nightmare to represent in court. | Aug 23 23:31 |
DaemonFC | weflare creates dependence on welfare and is always rife with fraud | Aug 23 23:31 |
ThistleWeb | he's an attention seeker | Aug 23 23:31 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: Mutex gave up | Aug 23 23:32 |
schestowitz | He left a comment in BN last week | Aug 23 23:32 |
ThistleWeb | he will continue to make outragious comments to get attention | Aug 23 23:32 |
ThistleWeb | ahh, good.....for now | Aug 23 23:32 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: and I'll say again...if you find yourself the wrong side of a civil action, settle out of court....it will be cheaper. | Aug 23 23:32 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: Why would I be in court? I've never even had a speeding ticket | Aug 23 23:32 |
ThistleWeb | maybe he's just conserving his energy for another push | Aug 23 23:32 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC trolls in real life too | Aug 23 23:33 |
schestowitz | That's why he's on probation :-) | Aug 23 23:33 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: It was a sarcastic remark directed at the strength of your arguments. | Aug 23 23:33 |
schestowitz | His parole offers does not forbid IRC, apparently | Aug 23 23:33 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: That was dismissed | Aug 23 23:33 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: I didnt think you would need it to be explained. | Aug 23 23:33 |
schestowitz | *officer | Aug 23 23:33 |
DaemonFC | I have the letter | Aug 23 23:33 |
ThistleWeb | I'm still new to IRC, I don't know many commands, whats the best way to ignore Daemon* | Aug 23 23:33 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: and maybe reinforces the validity of my advice to you. | Aug 23 23:33 |
ThistleWeb | this time it's opera that got him past my ignore | Aug 23 23:33 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: which client? | Aug 23 23:33 |
schestowitz | There might be a GUI route | Aug 23 23:34 |
ThistleWeb | xchat | Aug 23 23:34 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: I never had to go to court, the Prosecutor is an idiot | Aug 23 23:34 |
schestowitz | WIndows -> Ignore list | Aug 23 23:34 |
ThistleWeb | I had to rely on you kicking him before to get the right string to add | Aug 23 23:34 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: oh dear....you really don't understand do you? | Aug 23 23:34 |
schestowitz | i can't /ignore cause there's moderation needed | Aug 23 23:34 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: you are best off just forgetting about it then.....doesnt matter....Im sure the rest of us got the point. | Aug 23 23:35 |
ThistleWeb | I looked in there, but this time his string comes up as opera | Aug 23 23:35 |
DaemonFC | the probation was only on paper anyway | Aug 23 23:35 |
DaemonFC | I went out of state and into bars while it was "in effect" | Aug 23 23:35 |
ThistleWeb | I dont wanna ignore a dnyamic comcast ip pool | Aug 23 23:35 |
DaemonFC | they basically, it didn't even amount to a wrist slap | Aug 23 23:36 |
DaemonFC | is what I'm saying | Aug 23 23:36 |
ThistleWeb | nor all opera users | Aug 23 23:36 |
DaemonFC | they had no evidence, they didn't want to jsut let me go, so they gave me something "on paper" and then the charge was withdrawn, it's not even on my background checks | Aug 23 23:36 |
_Goblin | in the UK thats known as an NFA. | Aug 23 23:37 |
DaemonFC | it's more like they didn't want to admit in front of voters that they had fucked up and wasted tax money chasing after me | Aug 23 23:37 |
schestowitz | Too bad | Aug 23 23:37 |
DaemonFC | so they let me go without officially calling it that | Aug 23 23:37 |
_Goblin | I doubt it.....charges are dropped all the time. | Aug 23 23:37 |
schestowitz | They could have made a kiling | Aug 23 23:37 |
schestowitz | *ll | Aug 23 23:37 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz i think it's coincidence, bad luck and mysql being of not the greatest quality ;-) rationalwiki's is hardware problems | Aug 23 23:38 | |
_Goblin | in the UK the CPS can proceed with charge only for it to be dropped at court by the rep. | Aug 23 23:38 |
DaemonFC | they throw everyone against the wall and see what (who) sticks around here | Aug 23 23:38 |
DaemonFC | if it's not going to net them a huge amount of fines or penalties they just give up pursuing it | Aug 23 23:39 |
_Goblin | In the "old days" charges could be made by the custody sgt and cases were prosecuted by the officer in the case. | Aug 23 23:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard mysql has been good to me for over 5 years. I think we tend to see the errors because the whole bl00dy Web is mysql-powered | Aug 23 23:40 | |
DaemonFC | unless you maimed, murdered, or were in possession of drugs, it usually just gets ignored | Aug 23 23:40 |
DaemonFC | they're big on traffic tickets though | Aug 23 23:40 |
_Goblin | or what about pirated Microsoft products ;) | Aug 23 23:41 |
cubezzz | that's sort of encouraged | Aug 23 23:41 |
DaemonFC | nobody cares | Aug 23 23:41 |
cubezzz | Gates has said he'd rather people pirate windows than use Linux | Aug 23 23:42 |
DaemonFC | certainly not local police | Aug 23 23:42 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Note: I am being sarcastic again... | Aug 23 23:42 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: I heard that too.... | Aug 23 23:42 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: Im sure the shareholders will love that. | Aug 23 23:42 |
cubezzz | it's all about control | Aug 23 23:43 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure they'd haul you away if you were stupid enough to write "Kiddie Porn" on a blank CD and leave it out | Aug 23 23:43 |
cubezzz | there's a Star Wars quote that comes to mind here :) | Aug 23 23:43 |
DaemonFC | but nobody cares about "Windows Vista" written in sharpie marker | Aug 23 23:43 |
DaemonFC | not unless you're selling them | Aug 23 23:43 |
_Goblin | daemonFC: Because one is illegal and the other isnt.....copyright law only comes into play criminally in the UK when you share. | Aug 23 23:44 |
_Goblin | daemonFC: Hence why there is no offence of d/l from NG or IRC. | Aug 23 23:44 |
DaemonFC | they were using the "making available" argument here too til they established that just having one copy is enough | Aug 23 23:45 |
_Goblin | daemonFC: FACT (the commercially funded advisors to the police) are only interested in Limewire/BT sharing of their members work. | Aug 23 23:45 |
_Goblin | daemonFC: Although the question needs to be asked, if one is prosecuting for copyright theft of a non fact member then surely a victim statement needs to be taken from the company involved, somthing I'd suggest few police forces would be able to do. | Aug 23 23:46 |
_Goblin | daemonFC: having said that piracy is a non issue to me since I use FOSS.....you should try it. | Aug 23 23:47 |
cubezzz | _Goblin, how about this one: someone in the US records Cable TV and shares the file with everyone via bittorrent, legal or illegal? | Aug 23 23:48 |
_Goblin | in respect of the UK law? | Aug 23 23:48 |
_Goblin | illegal. | Aug 23 23:48 |
cubezzz | sure | Aug 23 23:48 |
_Goblin | the licence to broadcast has been paid for by the tv company. | Aug 23 23:48 |
DaemonFC | the RIAA keeps trying to up the ante by saying that police should investigate file sharers on the grounds that it's probably a crack den | Aug 23 23:49 |
DaemonFC | complete with prostitutes | Aug 23 23:49 |
DaemonFC | :P | Aug 23 23:49 |
_Goblin | there is no licence for the recipient to do as they please with it. | Aug 23 23:49 |
DaemonFC | I shit you not | Aug 23 23:49 |
cubezzz | _Goblin, yeah that makes sense | Aug 23 23:49 |
cubezzz | that would make stuff like sopcast illegal too would it not? | Aug 23 23:49 |
_Goblin | DaemonFC: Thats not new, over in the UK piracy has been linked to drugs/guns/terrorism.....all the "hot potatoes" of crime....the adverts are by FACT an organisation funded by the entertainment industry that advises the polcie. | Aug 23 23:50 |
DaemonFC | it's the RIAA, they want to stigmatize sharing because that's how their stuff gets copied | Aug 23 23:50 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: I dont know what sopcast is. | Aug 23 23:50 |
cubezzz | I don't see how anyone can stop sharing | Aug 23 23:51 |
DaemonFC | when you pirate Windows Vista, you download with Osama | Aug 23 23:51 |
DaemonFC | :) | Aug 23 23:51 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: I dont think you can....the warez scene is always about....it was rife on the Amiga and that was before BT/Limewire et al... | Aug 23 23:51 |
DaemonFC | BBS | Aug 23 23:52 |
DaemonFC | yep | Aug 23 23:52 |
_Goblin | cubezzz: In those days people swapped disks through the post in jiffy bags. | Aug 23 23:52 |
_Goblin | or used a BBS | Aug 23 23:52 |
DaemonFC | dial in and download for the price of a long distance call pretty much | Aug 23 23:52 |
cubezzz | sopcast is basically p2p sharing of satellite tv | Aug 23 23:52 |
DaemonFC | still cheaper than buying the software | Aug 23 23:52 |
_Goblin | or bought at car boot sales... | Aug 23 23:52 |
cubezzz | actually I bought my fair share of amiga software | Aug 23 23:53 |
_Goblin | you see the difficulty law has with copyright theft is the following...if they change legislation to make the act of simply downloading (not sharing) illegal, then you instantly make an offence of someone recording something off TV... | Aug 23 23:53 |
cubezzz | well, that was resolved with VCRs was it not? | Aug 23 23:54 |
cubezzz | recording is A-OK | Aug 23 23:54 |
_Goblin | thats why even if BT was clamped down on.....you can d/l from NG or IRC without fear. | Aug 23 23:54 |
DaemonFC | yeah, but now they jsut encrypt the recording and DRM it locally | Aug 23 23:54 |
DaemonFC | liek Microsoft Media Center | Aug 23 23:54 |
DaemonFC | I just use different media center software | Aug 23 23:55 |
cubezzz | I've removed all DRM I've encountered so far, except with Windows Media Player 11 | Aug 23 23:55 |
cubezzz | except for | Aug 23 23:55 |
DaemonFC | actually WMA itself doesn't support DRM | Aug 23 23:55 |
cubezzz | there's encrypted WMA | Aug 23 23:55 |
DaemonFC | the DRM'd WMA files are actually in an ASF wrapper, which does support the DRM | Aug 23 23:55 |
DaemonFC | the DRM is in the wrapper | Aug 23 23:55 |
cubezzz | TV -> the radio waves are out there, people can record | Aug 23 23:56 |
DaemonFC | I have no idea why anyone would buy a WMA file, much less a DRM'd one | Aug 23 23:56 |
cubezzz | same with FTA satellite | Aug 23 23:56 |
DaemonFC | I've tried WMA with a number of different types of music out of sheer curiosity | Aug 23 23:56 |
DaemonFC | never actually made a library out of them | Aug 23 23:57 |
cubezzz | I've bought WMA, I've bought WMV, and then later removed the DRM | Aug 23 23:57 |
_Goblin | mark my words, the end of filesharing will come about not by DRM, not by chasing individual sharers, it will be because (IMO) of legislation that holds the ISP's responsible....fear of loss of profit will ensure the ISP's keep its users in line. | Aug 23 23:57 |
DaemonFC | that's why teh ISPs got the "safe harbor" provision in the DMCA | Aug 23 23:57 |
_Goblin | that would certainly stop NG binaries.... | Aug 23 23:57 |
DaemonFC | all they have to do is warn you on behalf of the RIAA | Aug 23 23:58 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Opens Doors to Student http://ping.fm/5qMsH | Aug 23 23:58 | |
_Goblin | IRC servers....et al. | Aug 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | they aren't liable | Aug 23 23:58 |
cubezzz | well, people can encrypt the stream of course | Aug 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | I have a fair few MP3s just from people's DCC servers in IRC rooms | Aug 23 23:58 |
_Goblin | no daemonfc: I am saying a change in legislation that will make them. | Aug 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | _Goblin: Won't happen | Aug 23 23:58 |
_Goblin | and your reasoning? | Aug 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | the ISPs have just as many lobbyists as the RIAA | Aug 23 23:58 |
DaemonFC | the politicians don't want to piss either of them off | Aug 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | DMCA with Safe Harbor was a compromise between the recording industry and the ISPs | Aug 23 23:59 |
_Goblin | yes but this decision would have little relevance....we are talking large companies, taxes and the government.....legislation can be passed. | Aug 23 23:59 |
cubezzz | Bell is definitely throttling p2p traffic though | Aug 23 23:59 |
DaemonFC | Canada is actually cracking down far more than the United States | Aug 23 23:59 |
_Goblin | the people "in the know" are few and far between, this legislation, I believe could get through.... | Aug 23 23:59 |
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