DaemonFC | a Windows 7 party | Sep 04 00:04 |
---|---|---|
DaemonFC | are you serious? | Sep 04 00:04 |
DaemonFC | lmao | Sep 04 00:05 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft's "party" site has a twitter stream currently populated by comments from "Windows7Sucks" | Sep 04 00:06 |
_goblin | yep....Windows party, with a chance to win free gifts....IMO the only time Microsoft gets people celebrating their products. | Sep 04 00:07 |
DaemonFC | _goblin: Sounds like one of those "free vacations" where you have to attend seminars every day about buying into a time share | Sep 04 00:09 |
_goblin | more dangerous IMO...this is getting you to pimp 7 to your friends and family in the hope of getting a free copy of ultimate.... | Sep 04 00:11 |
DaemonFC | _goblin: you mean they can't even guarantee you the 30 pieces of silver? | Sep 04 00:12 |
DaemonFC | that's low | Sep 04 00:12 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 04 00:12 |
_Hicham_ | yes, let us support MS | Sep 04 00:13 |
_Hicham_ | since they do great software | Sep 04 00:14 |
_Hicham_ | Silverlight is spreading | Sep 04 00:14 |
DaemonFC | IE 8 is the best browser ever | Sep 04 00:14 |
DaemonFC | it even supports jumplists | Sep 04 00:14 |
DaemonFC | what's that? Ad blocking? Who needs that? | Sep 04 00:14 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 04 00:14 |
DaemonFC | Just get Silverlight so even more untrusted third parties can execute program code in your browser | Sep 04 00:15 |
DaemonFC | it's super delicious | Sep 04 00:15 |
DaemonFC | see, you just use ClickOnce to install software straight from the web with .Net (or maybe a script that broke out of the sandbox clicks for you) | Sep 04 00:16 |
_Hicham_ | great | Sep 04 00:17 |
_Hicham_ | that is what we need | Sep 04 00:17 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/get-started/install/default.aspx | Sep 04 00:17 |
_Hicham_ | Linux listed on MS website | Sep 04 00:18 |
DaemonFC | If you're running Linux, click here to get a plugin from Novell that nothing works with | Sep 04 00:19 |
DaemonFC | jesus | Sep 04 00:19 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: oh, come on... | Sep 04 00:19 |
DaemonFC | oh that was funny | Sep 04 00:20 |
DaemonFC | I have Compiz set to "explode" all the windows I close | Sep 04 00:21 |
DaemonFC | so I clicked on Microsoft's Silverlight showcase and Firefox exploded | Sep 04 00:21 |
DaemonFC | argh | Sep 04 00:21 |
schestowitz | Vista 7 - "I'll cry if I want to" | Sep 04 00:21 |
DaemonFC | well, at least they gave me a laugh | Sep 04 00:21 |
_Hicham_ | http://www.nerdgrind.com/microsoft-office-2010-technical-preview-1-download/ | Sep 04 00:22 |
schestowitz | Sign along, chaps: "Vis-Duh Seven and I'll cry if I want to" | Sep 04 00:22 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC using Linux | Sep 04 00:22 |
schestowitz | I'm using Vista 7 RTM | Sep 04 00:22 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : how is it ? | Sep 04 00:23 |
_Hicham_ | does it perform well ? | Sep 04 00:23 |
schestowitz | And this creature < http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/windows-7-its-party-time-just-dont-mention-vista/ > just flew past my window | Sep 04 00:23 |
*Received a CTCP VERSION from DaemonFC | Sep 04 00:23 | |
DaemonFC | nyet | Sep 04 00:23 |
DaemonFC | whatever schestowitz is using, it's old | Sep 04 00:23 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : what linux distro are u using, slackware ? | Sep 04 00:24 |
schestowitz | Not as old as gates Snr. | Sep 04 00:24 |
schestowitz | That dinosaur spends extra time corrupting politicians | Sep 04 00:24 |
DaemonFC | something from early 2007 | Sep 04 00:24 |
schestowitz | Wonder what he's doing for little billy boy these days... | Sep 04 00:24 |
DaemonFC | so probably Mandriva 2007 Spring | Sep 04 00:24 |
schestowitz | 2008.1 | Sep 04 00:25 |
DaemonFC | ahhh | Sep 04 00:25 |
DaemonFC | errr, that's what I meant | Sep 04 00:25 |
DaemonFC | brain fart....forget that Mandriva does the whole "next year" thing in the fall | Sep 04 00:25 |
DaemonFC | *forgot | Sep 04 00:25 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu was what originally got me off of XP for almost three solid years | Sep 04 00:26 |
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schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/new?replyto=silner | Sep 04 00:26 |
schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/03/youtube-uk-to-bring-music-videos-back | Sep 04 00:26 |
DaemonFC | but it seems like every release since 8.04 has been more bugs for me to fix myself | Sep 04 00:26 |
_Hicham_ | and now you left ubuntu for good ? | Sep 04 00:26 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Mint is basically Ubuntu | Sep 04 00:27 |
DaemonFC | it departs from their obvious bad choices | Sep 04 00:27 |
DaemonFC | at least superficially | Sep 04 00:27 |
_Hicham_ | what is the difference ? | Sep 04 00:27 |
_Hicham_ | the theming ? | Sep 04 00:27 |
DaemonFC | that's most of it | Sep 04 00:27 |
DaemonFC | different administration tools, different layout, all your media codecs are there | Sep 04 00:28 |
schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/03/digg-nofollow-links-matt-cutts-approved | Sep 04 00:28 |
schestowitz | Google polices links | Sep 04 00:28 |
DaemonFC | there's obvious ways to do things that have no GUI in Ubuntu | Sep 04 00:28 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 04 00:28 |
schestowitz | - External links from comments | Sep 04 00:28 |
schestowitz | - External links from user profiles | Sep 04 00:28 |
schestowitz | - External links from story pages "below a certain threshold of popularity"" | Sep 04 00:28 |
DaemonFC | like use ndiswrapper if you need to | Sep 04 00:28 |
_Hicham_ | who developed those GUIs? | Sep 04 00:29 |
DaemonFC | well, as I've said before, it's very similar to OpenSuse | Sep 04 00:29 |
DaemonFC | but underneath it all, it's Ubuntu with tweaks and codecs | Sep 04 00:30 |
DaemonFC | it's really meant to be more convenient for the user to install I suppose | Sep 04 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | is it as stable as ubuntu? | Sep 04 00:30 |
DaemonFC | if you have an Ubuntu disc and no internet connection, you can't even watch a DVD | Sep 04 00:30 |
DaemonFC | or listen to an MP3 | Sep 04 00:30 |
_Hicham_ | is it legal ? | Sep 04 00:31 |
DaemonFC | it should be at least as stable as Ubuntu considering it uses the same packages from the same repo | Sep 04 00:31 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Technically, it would not be legal to redistribute the main setup disc because of patent laws | Sep 04 00:31 |
schestowitz | http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/microsoft_zune_ceding_low_end_of_device_market_to_apple.html?ana=from_rss | Sep 04 00:31 |
schestowitz | "Microsoft confirmed this morning that it plans to stop manufacturing its existing lineup of Zune music players -- including the sub-$100 4GB and 8GB models -- as it rolls out the new Zune HD. " | Sep 04 00:31 |
DaemonFC | they do have a disc without the codecs so that you can legally redistribute them | Sep 04 00:32 |
DaemonFC | it's called the "Linux Mint Universal Edition" | Sep 04 00:32 |
DaemonFC | but I'm not some big magazine distributor who can easily be sued | Sep 04 00:32 |
DaemonFC | so I don't care | Sep 04 00:32 |
_Hicham_ | do u think that it is worth it? can't the gui tools be installed on ubuntu? | Sep 04 00:32 |
DaemonFC | it's at least as legal as Ubuntu after I've installed the codec packages | Sep 04 00:32 |
DaemonFC | they could | Sep 04 00:33 |
DaemonFC | and so can the SLAB menu | Sep 04 00:33 |
DaemonFC | and so can the theming engine | Sep 04 00:33 |
_Hicham_ | what is the difference then ? | Sep 04 00:33 |
_Hicham_ | some delayed security patches ? | Sep 04 00:33 |
DaemonFC | none really, except that it's been done for you | Sep 04 00:33 |
DaemonFC | no | Sep 04 00:33 |
DaemonFC | the security patches are there as soon as they land in Ubuntu | Sep 04 00:34 |
_Hicham_ | are they using the same repos ? | Sep 04 00:34 |
DaemonFC | it uses the Ubuntu repositories for the system | Sep 04 00:34 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 04 00:34 |
_Hicham_ | weird idea | Sep 04 00:34 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is the cake, they're the icing | Sep 04 00:34 |
DaemonFC | I guess is how I'd put Linux Mint | Sep 04 00:34 |
ThistleWeb | mint is a more polished ubuntu, but it's still essensially ubuntu | Sep 04 00:35 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 04 00:35 |
DaemonFC | it's more convenient | Sep 04 00:36 |
ThistleWeb | all the tutorials, debs, ppas etc for ubuntu all work fine in mint | Sep 04 00:36 |
DaemonFC | I suppose you could probably convert it to an Ubuntu system just by removing the Mint repos, and purging all the packages from them | Sep 04 00:37 |
DaemonFC | if anything ever happened to Mint and you didn't want to reformat, that is | Sep 04 00:37 |
_Hicham_ | I have used Ubuntu for more than two years | Sep 04 00:37 |
DaemonFC | their developers are fairly snarky and condescending | Sep 04 00:38 |
DaemonFC | that's the main problem I see with them | Sep 04 00:38 |
ThistleWeb | mint has a few handy features pre-installed like samba shares, mint upload | Sep 04 00:38 |
DaemonFC | they don't even listen to opposing points of view, they just ban | Sep 04 00:38 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #wikipedia the WMF blog needs a post on http://is.gd/2QUXD @jansonw our image restorers are largely unsung heroes | Sep 04 00:39 | |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu, that is | Sep 04 00:39 |
ThistleWeb | the mint update has a rating on how important an update it | Sep 04 00:39 |
ThistleWeb | is* | Sep 04 00:39 |
DaemonFC | no, that's a rating on how dangerous it is | Sep 04 00:39 |
ThistleWeb | with a filter, allowing you to only see mint approved, security updates etc | Sep 04 00:39 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 04 00:39 |
ThistleWeb | yes sorry | Sep 04 00:39 |
DaemonFC | 1 poses no risk to the system | Sep 04 00:40 |
DaemonFC | 5 means they've found problems | Sep 04 00:40 |
ThistleWeb | yep, default is 1-3 | Sep 04 00:40 |
DaemonFC | by default it only shows updates rated 1-3 | Sep 04 00:40 |
ThistleWeb | but you can see 4 & 5 | Sep 04 00:40 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 04 00:40 |
DaemonFC | you can unhide the 4's and 5's | Sep 04 00:40 |
ThistleWeb | if you want to | Sep 04 00:40 |
_Hicham_ | Ubuntu devs are Debian outlaws | Sep 04 00:40 |
ThistleWeb | I had to think about the slab menu, but I use the xfce mint, which dont have the slab menu | Sep 04 00:40 |
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ThistleWeb | I have used it before though, it's not too bad | Sep 04 00:41 |
DaemonFC | well, Debian is pretty rigid and the release system is unpredictable | Sep 04 00:41 |
DaemonFC | so those are valid concerns, but I don't think Ubuntu is an ideal answer to that | Sep 04 00:41 |
DaemonFC | for every problem it fixes in Debian, it adds more of their own | Sep 04 00:41 |
_Hicham_ | of course, with every fix, there is another problem | Sep 04 00:42 |
DaemonFC | what's the XFCE one like? | Sep 04 00:42 |
DaemonFC | I may be able to use that on my laptop | Sep 04 00:42 |
ThistleWeb | one of the best xfce distros I've used | Sep 04 00:42 |
DaemonFC | GNOME is way too slow on the laptop | Sep 04 00:42 |
ThistleWeb | it's not as light as others, but it's very slick | Sep 04 00:42 |
ThistleWeb | it's amillion times better than xubuntu | Sep 04 00:42 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Has the World’s Biggest Patent Troll, But What’s Up with Google? http://ping.fm/UaSWH | Sep 04 00:43 | |
ThistleWeb | currently it's a release behind | Sep 04 00:43 |
DaemonFC | I prefer GNOME if I can get away with it | Sep 04 00:43 |
ThistleWeb | it's mint xfce ce 6 | Sep 04 00:43 |
ThistleWeb | the rest are at mint 7 | Sep 04 00:43 |
DaemonFC | but it's way too heavy to put on older systems (Say, pre-2004) | Sep 04 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | XFCE is too simplistic | Sep 04 00:43 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I hated Xubuntu | Sep 04 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | and doesn't have the features than GNOME provide | Sep 04 00:43 |
_Hicham_ | sure it is based on GTK+ | Sep 04 00:43 |
ThistleWeb | xfce is deceptive | Sep 04 00:44 |
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_Hicham_ | but what is the point is starting another GNOME from scratch | Sep 04 00:44 |
_Hicham_ | ? | Sep 04 00:44 |
ThistleWeb | it appears simple on the surface | Sep 04 00:44 |
Balrog_ | _Hicham_: LXDE based Ubuntu is out | Sep 04 00:44 |
ThistleWeb | it's much better than many assume | Sep 04 00:44 |
_Hicham_ | I used LXDE too | Sep 04 00:44 |
ThistleWeb | xubuntu is terrible | Sep 04 00:44 |
ThistleWeb | mint xfce and wolvix are the best 2 xfce distros I've seen | Sep 04 00:45 |
schestowitz | xfce or xubuntu? | Sep 04 00:45 |
DaemonFC | Xubuntu is bad | Sep 04 00:45 |
_Hicham_ | even with XFCE, you will need GNOME libraries | Sep 04 00:45 |
DaemonFC | they've tried to clone their GNOME layout with it | Sep 04 00:45 |
_Hicham_ | because applications request it | Sep 04 00:45 |
DaemonFC | it looks like a third world GNOME, not like XFCE | Sep 04 00:45 |
schestowitz | zenwalk should be good for xfce | Sep 04 00:45 |
ThistleWeb | I never take note of the default theme, icons, wallpaper, layout etc as I chance them to my tastes anyway | Sep 04 00:46 |
_Hicham_ | gconf-backend, gnome-keyring-daemon, and so on | Sep 04 00:46 |
schestowitz | beranger has a popular table on which to choose for xfce | Sep 04 00:46 |
DaemonFC | bbl | Sep 04 00:46 |
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ThistleWeb | mint 6 was the first distro I've liked the default icon set | Sep 04 00:47 |
ThistleWeb | I usually change them, along with the rest of the theme and layout | Sep 04 00:47 |
_Hicham_ | maybe there were influenced by openSUSE theme | Sep 04 00:48 |
ThistleWeb | dunno | Sep 04 00:48 |
schestowitz | bribing for people to hype up Vista 7: | Sep 04 00:48 |
schestowitz | Microsoft calling on thousands to host their own Windows 7 parties | Sep 04 00:48 |
schestowitz | http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/microsoft_plans_thousands_of_neighborhood_parties_for_windows_7.html?ana=from_rss | Sep 04 00:48 |
schestowitz | AstroTurf | Sep 04 00:48 |
cubezzz-laptop | wtf, lol | Sep 04 00:48 |
schestowitz | "here. Have some money. Make a buzz" | Sep 04 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : are you invited to those parties ? | Sep 04 00:49 |
ThistleWeb | with the mint CE's they at least feel like proper distros, not afterthoughts like xubuntu and kubuntu | Sep 04 00:49 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes | Sep 04 00:49 |
schestowitz | These parties are good | Sep 04 00:49 |
schestowitz | For me to p00p on. | Sep 04 00:49 |
ThistleWeb | they're built by peeps who love those DE's | Sep 04 00:49 |
schestowitz | [reference: insult dog] | Sep 04 00:49 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u have an extra invitation for me ? | Sep 04 00:49 |
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schestowitz | _Hicham_: sure | Sep 04 00:50 |
schestowitz | They'll give you trouble in airport security, though | Sep 04 00:50 |
_Hicham_ | of course, btw I don't like airports these days | Sep 04 00:50 |
schestowitz | You must kiss a picture of George and Tony to have them pass you through gates | Sep 04 00:51 |
schestowitz | :-p | Sep 04 00:51 |
ThistleWeb | george galloway? | Sep 04 00:51 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Sep 04 00:51 |
schestowitz | No, Bush | Sep 04 00:51 |
_Hicham_ | gates to hell | Sep 04 00:51 |
schestowitz | Killing galloway? Gross. | Sep 04 00:51 |
ThistleWeb | yeah he's a mixed bag | Sep 04 00:52 |
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ThistleWeb | sometimes he's brilliant, others he's an embarrassment, depending on what he's doing | Sep 04 00:52 |
ThistleWeb | not unlike RMS | Sep 04 00:53 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : there is a new alternative to gnome-do | Sep 04 00:53 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: check out MSBBC fluff: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8233850.stm | Sep 04 00:53 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: gnome-undo? | Sep 04 00:53 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: they need space-fillers | Sep 04 00:54 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : it is called kupfer | Sep 04 00:54 |
schestowitz | No pun intended BTW | Sep 04 00:54 |
_Hicham_ | http://kaizer.se/wiki/kupfer/ | Sep 04 00:54 |
schestowitz | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupfer | Sep 04 00:54 |
ThistleWeb | yeah I saw that headline earlier but didnt bother clicking on it | Sep 04 00:54 |
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ThistleWeb | kinda smelt like a filler story | Sep 04 00:55 |
_Hicham_ | do u speak german schestowitz ? | Sep 04 00:55 |
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_Hicham_ | Copper | Sep 04 00:56 |
_Hicham_ | that is it | Sep 04 00:56 |
_Hicham_ | stange name | Sep 04 00:56 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: it's the content that counts. TBH, the later eps get boring. The earlier, the better. | Sep 04 00:57 | |
Chips | Hi all. Have you seen this one: Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Microsoft-Says-Recovery-from-Malware-Becoming-Impossible/ | Sep 04 00:57 |
Chips | Quote from the link: "In a rare discussion about the severity of the Windows malware scourge, a Microsoft security official said businesses should consider investing in an automated process to wipe hard drives and reinstall operating systems as a practical way to recover from malware infestation." | Sep 04 00:58 |
cubezzz | pfffft | Sep 04 00:58 |
Chips | I have run into a lot of windows users bringing me hard drives that only work after running DBAN on them | Sep 04 00:59 |
Chips | more and more lately | Sep 04 00:59 |
_Hicham_ | Windows Malware is so hard to clean | Sep 04 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | it is just impossible to clean sometimes | Sep 04 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | because it affects the whole system | Sep 04 01:00 |
Chips | Hicham, yes, its getting far worse too | Sep 04 01:00 |
_Hicham_ | I have had a lot of Windows viruses that I have failed to wipe out | Sep 04 01:00 |
Chips | but most likely stealth viruses the affect the partition tables and MBR more and more | Sep 04 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | simply because they are everywhere | Sep 04 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | the more dangerous ones are rootkits | Sep 04 01:01 |
Chips | they all are dangerous | Sep 04 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | which routes Win API calls | Sep 04 01:01 |
cubezzz | that's interesting, I didn't think it was that bad | Sep 04 01:01 |
Chips | but some seem to even fool the bios | Sep 04 01:01 |
cubezzz | could windows be even crappier than I thought? :) | Sep 04 01:01 |
_Hicham_ | so it is impossible to find them | Sep 04 01:02 |
_Hicham_ | because they are part of ntoskrn.exe | Sep 04 01:02 |
Chips | I have had to find them in linux machines by sometimes putting them in a usb enclosure | Sep 04 01:02 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/03/gartner_q2_2009_server_nums/ "Everyone expected the server market to collapse in the second quarter, but the decline is a little worse than anticipated - at least in some segments and geographies." | Sep 04 01:02 |
_Hicham_ | usb viruses are sweet | Sep 04 01:02 |
_Hicham_ | as i said rootkits are the worst form of them | Sep 04 01:03 |
Chips | I had 3 hd's bought to me last month with these problems | Sep 04 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | beside some late polymorphic virures | Sep 04 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | like Conficker | Sep 04 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | I have heard that schestowitz to Conficker's code | Sep 04 01:03 |
_Hicham_ | *contributed | Sep 04 01:04 |
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Chips | Well, when you get a MS guy saying you need to wipe the drive things are very bad in windowsland | Sep 04 01:04 |
_Hicham_ | of course they are Chips | Sep 04 01:05 |
_Hicham_ | they are since a long time ago | Sep 04 01:05 |
_Hicham_ | did you think that Windows could be secured ? | Sep 04 01:05 |
Chips | Was hoping Roy could use that, if he has already not. Here is another one. Microsoft Releases Windows Malware Stats | Sep 04 01:06 |
Balrog_ | _Hicham_: yes. You run it in a VM and filter all packets. | Sep 04 01:06 |
Chips | http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2006/06/microsoft_releases_malware_sta.html | Sep 04 01:06 |
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_Hicham_ | I was using Kaspersky 2009 with least privilegies in Windows | Sep 04 01:06 |
_Hicham_ | but even with that, there was no security | Sep 04 01:06 |
_Hicham_ | hi oiaohm | Sep 04 01:07 |
Chips | Quote from the link: "The statistics also show how computer worms never really go away. For example, the "Blaster worm," which first surfaced in August 2003, is still the 10th-most-removed piece of malware, according to Microsoft. Indeed, Redmond found that in about 20 percent of cases where it removed malware in March 2006, the intruder was something the removal tool had previously nixed." | Sep 04 01:07 |
Chips | I believe the Blaster Worm, not Vista, was the main cause of users starting to look for something better. | Sep 04 01:09 |
Chips | But Vista helped. | Sep 04 01:09 |
_Hicham_ | how Vista helped ? | Sep 04 01:10 |
Chips | It was the blaster worm, and the outrage by the press and gov, that caused MS to work on SP2 for XP to the point of virtually stopping Longhorn | Sep 04 01:10 |
Chips | Hicham, Vista may have helped, by discouraging many windows users so bad they looked for alternatives | Sep 04 01:11 |
_Hicham_ | but Vista is not secure at all | Sep 04 01:12 |
Chips | I credit the Blaster Worm for the reason that MS let XP go for so long | Sep 04 01:12 |
Chips | Hicham> that is the point | Sep 04 01:12 |
Chips | Vista is not secure | Sep 04 01:12 |
_Hicham_ | MS let XP go for so long because Vista couldn't be a replacement | Sep 04 01:13 |
_Hicham_ | all users are requesting XP | Sep 04 01:13 |
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Chips | No, because they needed to rush out sp2 for xp and stop longhorn to do so. The bad press at the time from the blaster worm was impressive. Even the gov was talking about forcing MS to do something about security | Sep 04 01:14 |
Chips | it turned out to be all talk | Sep 04 01:15 |
Chips | Everyone I knew at the time, got hit with the blaster worm | Sep 04 01:15 |
_Hicham_ | great for MS users | Sep 04 01:16 |
Chips | MS can never get rid of the Blaster Worm or the damage it did to its dimishing reputation | Sep 04 01:18 |
_Hicham_ | because they have no security at all | Sep 04 01:19 |
_Hicham_ | just started using least privilegied user concept on Vista | Sep 04 01:19 |
Chips | Here is a link for DaemonFC, the big boxmart troll, lol: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv6RcXa2UI | Sep 04 01:19 |
Chips | Hicham, so you create a "normal" (limited) user account in Vista? | Sep 04 01:20 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/03/oracle_sun_merger_investigation/ | Sep 04 01:20 |
schestowitz | Competition Commissioner 'Steelie' Neelie Kroes said: | Sep 04 01:20 |
schestowitz | The Commission has to examine very carefully the effects on competition in Europe when the world's leading proprietary database company proposes to take over the world's leading open source database company. In particular, the Commission has an obligation to ensure that customers would not face reduced choice or higher prices as a result of this takeover. Databases are a key element of company IT systems. | Sep 04 01:20 |
schestowitz | In the current economic context, all companies are looking for cost-effective IT solutions, and systems based on open-source software are increasingly emerging as viable alternatives to proprietary solutions. The Commission has to ensure that such alternatives would continue to be available. | Sep 04 01:20 |
Chips | it does help some to do this, sadly it will never be as secure as Linux | Sep 04 01:21 |
Chips | Hi Roy, did you see the first link? | Sep 04 01:21 |
_Hicham_ | Linux is having a new security framework, tomoyo | Sep 04 01:21 |
oiaohm | God reading Linux haters blog entries comments are a great laugh at times. | Sep 04 01:23 |
oiaohm | Some stupid idiot said FOSS had a zero dollar R&D spending. | Sep 04 01:23 |
_Hicham_ | haha | Sep 04 01:24 |
_Hicham_ | great | Sep 04 01:24 |
oiaohm | The true fact the Most R&D spending is on FOSS by a large margin. | Sep 04 01:25 |
oiaohm | Just very little of that goes into desktop stuff. | Sep 04 01:25 |
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schestowitz | Chips: from 2006? | Sep 04 01:28 |
oiaohm | http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=5319 Ok are people nuts today. | Sep 04 01:28 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rob Tiller Explains Why Software Patents Are a Tax on Innovation (Video) http://ping.fm/NmpTy | Sep 04 01:29 | |
oiaohm | Windows 7 killer feature power management? | Sep 04 01:29 |
oiaohm | How did the auther come to that. | Sep 04 01:29 |
oiaohm | O well 2.6.32 Linux kernel could see them crying. The same power mangement tech will appear in Linux from intel. | Sep 04 01:30 |
_Hicham_ | from intel ? | Sep 04 01:30 |
Chips | Yes, Roy, its from 2006, old but still relavent. any time you can get someone that works for MS to admit that | Sep 04 01:31 |
_Hicham_ | intel will put in kernel 2.6.32 ? | Sep 04 01:31 |
_Hicham_ | great | Sep 04 01:31 |
_Hicham_ | they started by participating to gcc | Sep 04 01:31 |
Chips | can't be fixed, must be wiped and reinstalled | Sep 04 01:31 |
oiaohm | To be correct amd and intel will both put it in 2.6.32 | Sep 04 01:31 |
oiaohm | So leaving windows 7 laging on amd chips. | Sep 04 01:32 |
Balrog_ | looks like Mac OS ... and the BSDs ... are moving away from GCC and toward LLVM+Clang | Sep 04 01:32 |
oiaohm | BSD have always wanted to unhook from the GPL licence Balrog_ | Sep 04 01:32 |
Balrog_ | I know. Clang has some pretty nice features though | Sep 04 01:32 |
oiaohm | llvm move is kinda expected. | Sep 04 01:32 |
_Hicham_ | but GPL and BSD are compatible | Sep 04 01:32 |
oiaohm | Really it will be nice having two compliers. | Sep 04 01:33 |
oiaohm | _Hicham_: only 1 way compatible. | Sep 04 01:33 |
oiaohm | GPL can wrap BSD code. | Sep 04 01:33 |
oiaohm | BSD cannot wrap GPL. | Sep 04 01:33 |
oiaohm | BSD guys don't particularly like that. Remember the complains when Linux kernel took BSD sections of code and altered them. | Sep 04 01:34 |
oiaohm | Since the alterations were under GPL BSD kernel could not take it back. | Sep 04 01:34 |
Chips | neither could they take back | Sep 04 01:34 |
Chips | apple altered code | Sep 04 01:35 |
Chips | at least some of it | Sep 04 01:35 |
oiaohm | Its the BSD weakness. | Sep 04 01:35 |
Balrog_ | some people call it a strength .............. | Sep 04 01:35 |
oiaohm | Not only do closed source take there code and use it. Open source does as well. | Sep 04 01:35 |
oiaohm | The effect is less developers working on BSD. | Sep 04 01:36 |
oiaohm | But working under other licences. | Sep 04 01:36 |
oiaohm | Remember numbers of developers is key to progress. | Sep 04 01:36 |
oiaohm | Remember BSD had over a 10 year head start on Linux. | Sep 04 01:37 |
oiaohm | GPL is the secrect to Linux speed of development. | Sep 04 01:37 |
Chips | ROY> if you can use that link, maybe a good way to use it, is to start by writing: "Even way back in 2006 a MS employee admitted that" | Sep 04 01:38 |
oiaohm | http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/ApplicationBased << Great Gnome developers are going nuts. | Sep 04 01:38 |
oiaohm | What is going to happen if users rename stuff. | Sep 04 01:39 |
*Balrog_ has quit () | Sep 04 01:41 | |
oiaohm | Or worse 2 applications with the same name. | Sep 04 01:42 |
_Hicham_ | 2 applications with the same name ? | Sep 04 01:43 |
oiaohm | It happens quite a few times. Like the video game chromuim BSU and googles web browser chromuim | Sep 04 01:44 |
oiaohm | Yep getting the wrong one there is going to piss you off. | Sep 04 01:45 |
_Hicham_ | those issues should be resolved | Sep 04 01:45 |
_Hicham_ | two applications cannot have the same name | Sep 04 01:46 |
oiaohm | They can and they do. | Sep 04 01:46 |
_Hicham_ | a simple patch will do it | Sep 04 01:46 |
oiaohm | Or person has 2 versions of a application installed. | Sep 04 01:46 |
oiaohm | There is a really simple way to prevent this by the way. | Sep 04 01:46 |
oiaohm | So simple and the gnome developers over looked it. | Sep 04 01:46 |
oiaohm | The process table contains the command used to run the application. | Sep 04 01:47 |
oiaohm | Since two different applications should have two different locations no problems. | Sep 04 01:47 |
oiaohm | Even on windows there is the same look up. | Sep 04 01:48 |
_Hicham_ | how do u know ? | Sep 04 01:48 |
_Hicham_ | Windows is closed source ? | Sep 04 01:48 |
oiaohm | Because the process table lookups are documented in the MSDN. | Sep 04 01:48 |
oiaohm | For developers to use _Hicham_ | Sep 04 01:49 |
oiaohm | Different format but same result can be got. | Sep 04 01:49 |
Chips | its would show in windows task manager as well | Sep 04 01:49 |
oiaohm | Windows task manager is just a front end for the windows process table. | Sep 04 01:50 |
Chips | yes | Sep 04 01:50 |
oiaohm | There is the simple way and there is the hard way. | Sep 04 01:50 |
oiaohm | Simple way use process table to tell you when you are doing duplicant. | Sep 04 01:50 |
oiaohm | Hard way is what gnome is doing. | Sep 04 01:50 |
oiaohm | Note gnome made no requirement to tag version. | Sep 04 01:51 |
Chips | Oiaohm> sorry I wasn't really following, is Gnome trying to make a "task manager" lilke in windows? | Sep 04 01:52 |
oiaohm | Read the Application Based alterations to detect when application is run twice I just provided Chips | Sep 04 01:53 |
oiaohm | They are doing it for Gnome 3.0 | Sep 04 01:53 |
oiaohm | They have gone nuts. .desktop file and application have to be in sync. | Sep 04 01:53 |
oiaohm | No room left for duplication. | Sep 04 01:53 |
Chips | will just stay with KDE thanks | Sep 04 01:55 |
oiaohm | Worse is they are connecting everything basically to dbus. | Sep 04 01:55 |
oiaohm | So nice new set of crunch. | Sep 04 01:56 |
Chips | tell me they are going add more mono | Sep 04 01:56 |
oiaohm | Note everything to dbus under those names that could be duplicatent. | Sep 04 01:56 |
oiaohm | Boy it could have been done so much simpler. | Sep 04 01:57 |
oiaohm | Make one interface that can talk to application by process number. | Sep 04 01:58 |
oiaohm | Add a filter to check process table. | Sep 04 01:58 |
Chips | your logic does sound correct | Sep 04 01:58 |
oiaohm | The thing is basically simpler and cleaner. | Sep 04 01:58 |
Chips | this should not affect KDE? | Sep 04 02:05 |
Chips | each process in the table does already have an PID | Sep 04 02:08 |
Chips | ps -e -f | Sep 04 02:08 |
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 04 02:09 | |
Chips | from there the kill or killall commands or crtl-alt=esc crtl-alt-bcksp can be used | Sep 04 02:10 |
oiaohm | And PID numbers are unique. | Sep 04 02:12 |
oiaohm | While the program is running. | Sep 04 02:13 |
Chips | yes, I agree totally with you | Sep 04 02:13 |
Chips | what I thought this was about, at first, was there is always some former windows users trying to get a | Sep 04 02:14 |
Chips | "task manager" gui made for linux | Sep 04 02:14 |
oiaohm | I want KMS before I do that. | Sep 04 02:16 |
oiaohm | So like cntrl alt something brings up a task manager to allow killing applications protected by cgroups from being cut off from cpu time. | Sep 04 02:17 |
Chips | task manager is somewhat of a problem even in windows, as when things sort of lock up, resources can be mostly used up and bringing up an gui takes more and is sometimes very very slow | Sep 04 02:17 |
oiaohm | Would work so nice. | Sep 04 02:17 |
oiaohm | Basically it would only be small too. I was looking a ncurses | Sep 04 02:18 |
Chips | Yes, but a task manager gui style for Linux, would be only somewhat useful, to those converting over | Sep 04 02:18 |
Chips | from windows | Sep 04 02:18 |
oiaohm | Gui could be done as well my way. | Sep 04 02:19 |
oiaohm | Advantage is that it would work. | Sep 04 02:19 |
Chips | guess it would make it easier for some newbies | Sep 04 02:19 |
oiaohm | Compared to windows one at times. | Sep 04 02:19 |
oiaohm | Ok would work quickly. | Sep 04 02:19 |
Chips | I have had to do a lot of explaining on how to shut down, or get out when something goes wrong, it doesn't happen often thankfully | Sep 04 02:20 |
Chips | new users adk | Sep 04 02:20 |
glad you found that. I think I sent a link earlier about this. -> schestowitz: Competition Commissioner 'Steelie' Neelie Kroes said | Sep 04 02:20 | |
funny how the trolls were in here just the other day saying, "no one uses mySQL" as if LAMP were some kind of rare animal. | Sep 04 02:21 | |
Chips | Oiaohm, I like your ncurses idea for a task manager for newbies | Sep 04 02:23 |
Chips | low resource | Sep 04 02:23 |
oiaohm | Pointless doing it until KMS works. | Sep 04 02:23 |
oiaohm | X11 has the nasty habit of taken out means to switch to terminal. | Sep 04 02:24 |
Chips | what I see is that real time is needed for future virus scanning shields, KMS, maybe this will all be done before the advent of Google ChromeOS. Google and Linux will then start the real war on the desktop | Sep 04 02:25 |
oiaohm | Real time scanning is under way. | Sep 04 02:27 |
This happens at every "upgrade" and so does the reporting, but windows infection has pretty much been 100% for as long as people have tried to exchange information via floppies or networks -> Chips: Everyone I knew at the time, got hit with the blaster worm | Sep 04 02:27 | |
oiaohm | merge of filesystem monitoring has happened in 2.6.3.1 | Sep 04 02:28 |
oiaohm | opps 2.6.31 | Sep 04 02:28 |
oiaohm | Now the addon for virus scanning and blocking is all that is missing in that. | Sep 04 02:28 |
oiaohm | Realtime network virus scanning is fairly simple to do on Linux. | Sep 04 02:28 |
oiaohm | Next 12 months should close all the major tech bits need up. | Sep 04 02:29 |
Chips | blaster worm woke most users up the to fact that Windows could be taken down at any time | Sep 04 02:30 |
Yes, it is that bad. Ask them how to install Windows 7, ha ha. http://slashdot.org/submission/1052885/Is-Vista-7-the-Least-Compatible-Windows-of-All Chips: Well, when you get a MS guy saying you need to wipe the drive things are very bad in windowsland | Sep 04 02:30 | |
oiaohm | Windows 7 is the last OS MS gets to put out without Linux as a major threat. | Sep 04 02:30 |
Chips | Oiaohm> its the virus shield (resident) that is necessary. Long term. ClamAV most likely does not support that because of real time. | Sep 04 02:31 |
Windows users have come to expect wipe and reload. They think "the computer is complex and fragile" | Sep 04 02:31 | |
oiaohm | Clamav has had support for realtime on Linux Chips | Sep 04 02:32 |
Chips | Windows is fragile | Sep 04 02:32 |
reload is such a pain for them. dozens of drivers and dozens of programs to make the thing do anything useful, each of which require half a dozen tweaks. | Sep 04 02:32 | |
oiaohm | In a non merged patch due to the fact it too much of a hack. | Sep 04 02:32 |
oiaohm | I expect clamav to be realtime able on Linux very quickly after realtime scanning is added. | Sep 04 02:33 |
reload is basically like stepping a few years back in time and they never get it all back. | Sep 04 02:33 | |
Chips | last I tried Clamav, even in XP, it did not have a resident viral shield, not memory resident. ONly scanns and updates | Sep 04 02:33 |
Chips misspelled crap. Windows is crap. | Sep 04 02:33 | |
oiaohm | I wish someone would do a compare of XP to windows 7 upgrade with a XP to ubuntu with migration wizard. | Sep 04 02:34 |
oiaohm | I suspect Ubuntu is less painful. | Sep 04 02:34 |
oiaohm | Windows also only supports 1 resident shield at a time. | Sep 04 02:35 |
oiaohm | There are resident shields around for clamav on windows. | Sep 04 02:35 |
Chips | I am not a big fan of Ubuntu, or mono in it | Sep 04 02:35 |
oiaohm | I am not a big fan either. | Sep 04 02:36 |
Chips | but I going say something good about Ubuntu here | Sep 04 02:36 |
oiaohm | But if it gets users coming accross the divide I will live with it. | Sep 04 02:36 |
Chips | Local Linux computer fixer here that I talk to, told me this | Sep 04 02:37 |
Chips | on ebay he seen some computers with xp on it. And then some with Ubuntu on it, same computer. The Ubuntu ones sold for $15 more, used | Sep 04 02:37 |
Chips | other distros he said did not sell | Sep 04 02:38 |
Chips | name reconizion perhaps, if I could spell | Sep 04 02:38 |
oiaohm | Not really. | Sep 04 02:38 |
oiaohm | Who wants to have to clean a computer out of crap before they use it. | Sep 04 02:38 |
Chips | my point is, newbies know the Ubuntu name | Sep 04 02:39 |
Chips | if they are disgusted with Windows, maybe its a way of selling old computers | Sep 04 02:40 |
Chips | but I would have to look some on ebay, maybe he is wrong | Sep 04 02:40 |
oiaohm | He is not wrong. | Sep 04 02:40 |
cubezzz | sure, why not put Linux on, XP is bloated | Sep 04 02:41 |
oiaohm | Note linux sold that way don't show up since the machines are not new. | Sep 04 02:41 |
oiaohm | Its also that a few people have been caught on ebay buying a computer with a pirated copy of XP installed. | Sep 04 02:42 |
Chips | twitter> spelling is not one of my strong points. Grammar is even lower on the scale. But I spell crap as krap mostly, in order not to be banned on sites I comment on. | Sep 04 02:42 |
oiaohm | Ie you can trust Ubuntu to work after you get it. | Sep 04 02:42 |
Chips | most linux does basically work | Sep 04 02:43 |
oiaohm | Its the sign of the changing market. | Sep 04 02:43 |
Chips | and I try hard not to start bashing the other guys free work | Sep 04 02:44 |
Chips | but, as you know, I cannot do that for long | Sep 04 02:44 |
Chips | lol | Sep 04 02:44 |
_Hicham_ | Linux is slowly conquering the desktop market | Sep 04 02:47 |
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sebsebseb | schestowitz: you about? | Sep 04 02:47 |
_Hicham_ | after conquering the desktop market, nothing will be left for Microsoft | Sep 04 02:47 |
_Hicham_ | is more merges occur in Linux distribution, MS will feel really threatened | Sep 04 02:48 |
_Hicham_ | but Linux is after all : Linux | Sep 04 02:48 |
oiaohm | Most of Linux does not care about the desktop. | Sep 04 02:48 |
oiaohm | The jobs are in the server room. | Sep 04 02:48 |
oiaohm | Just having the desktop gives you the server room. | Sep 04 02:49 |
_Hicham_ | GNU/Linux is : kernel + glibc + X | Sep 04 02:49 |
_Hicham_ | and all distros use the same components | Sep 04 02:49 |
oiaohm | X is only still around because video cards don't release drivers for anything else. | Sep 04 02:49 |
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stefan_ | hello? | Sep 04 02:50 |
_Hicham_ | and package management problem will be wiped out by packagekit (hopefully) | Sep 04 02:50 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: would be better if schestowitz was here I think, but go a head | Sep 04 02:50 |
sebsebseb | if anyone wants to talk about your article in here, that is | Sep 04 02:50 |
Chips | _Hicham_> Linux is slowly conquering the desktop market" I believe this very much. And I believe that MS knows this and in fact has given up on doing anything to really improve Windows. Ballmer wants so bad to start Online advertising over the grave of Google, or become a media company like NBC with Silverlight | Sep 04 02:50 |
_Hicham_ | Chips : it is a fact | Sep 04 02:51 |
_Hicham_ | desktop conquering has begun with Mandrake in 1998 | Sep 04 02:51 |
oiaohm | Not really _Hicham_ | Sep 04 02:51 |
_Hicham_ | how ? | Sep 04 02:51 |
stefan_ | I read this article (http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/the_problems_of_open_source.htm) about why open source software might not be the best solution. I am looking for counter-arguments | Sep 04 02:52 |
stefan_ | please, shoot! :) | Sep 04 02:52 |
oiaohm | We are only starting now to get the tech to make a desktop OS out of Linux. | Sep 04 02:52 |
sebsebseb | stefan_ is new to Linux and that it seems, and he has read a negative article regarding FOSS that he is believeing so far, so I was hopeing he could discuss it here a bit, and get some real truth :) | Sep 04 02:52 |
stefan_ | I am not very new to linux, have been using it for... I guess 3 years now... | Sep 04 02:52 |
oiaohm | Audio and video play back required scheduler and lock corrections. | Sep 04 02:52 |
oiaohm | That are getting close to complete. | Sep 04 02:52 |
stefan_ | just new to all the IRC commands that are available:P | Sep 04 02:52 |
Chips | to gain more of the server and business market, Linux needs to gain more of the desktop market | Sep 04 02:52 |
oiaohm | Desktop management is still lacking. | Sep 04 02:53 |
oiaohm | Everything is going in the right direction. | Sep 04 02:53 |
Chips | Oiaohm> ti some degree yes, but very usuable | Sep 04 02:53 |
stefan_ | so, anyone who wants to read the article...? | Sep 04 02:55 |
oiaohm | stefan_: there is lot of logical faults there. | Sep 04 02:55 |
oiaohm | Take FOSS biggest market super computers. | Sep 04 02:55 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: I thought it was the server? | Sep 04 02:56 |
oiaohm | That market would willing pay for commerical software before it fell to Linux. | Sep 04 02:56 |
Chips | stefan>what article? | Sep 04 02:56 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: well there aren't that many super computers I mean | Sep 04 02:56 |
oiaohm | In money sebsebseb | Sep 04 02:56 |
stefan_ | this one: http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/the_problems_of_open_source.htm | Sep 04 02:56 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: ah ok | Sep 04 02:56 |
oiaohm | That market is more prepaired to pay for custom solutions. | Sep 04 02:56 |
oiaohm | to get fast results. | Sep 04 02:57 |
oiaohm | FOSS fits perfectly if something does not work right they have there own staff of coders and can just fix it. | Sep 04 02:57 |
oiaohm | Like 80 percent of Linux kernel devepolers are paid to do it. | Sep 04 02:57 |
oiaohm | Yes that is right paid. | Sep 04 02:58 |
stefan_ | but doesn't it just suck to have to search all kinds of user forums to get something to start working, when it should have worked right away? | Sep 04 02:58 |
oiaohm | Same numbers apply to freebsd kernel. | Sep 04 02:58 |
The miracle of life, compound growth, it is all rather amazing. Breasts are all about comfort and security. These are powerful emotions well raised people have imprinted on them. -> It's called the "Milky Way" cause the stars are milk from the breast of a goddesses ... WHy the obsession with sexual organs in superstition? | Sep 04 02:58 | |
oiaohm | Notice something. | Sep 04 02:58 |
oiaohm | Both are building devices . | Sep 04 02:58 |
oiaohm | FOSS and equipment building goes hand and hand. | Sep 04 02:59 |
oiaohm | Now lot of cases devices makers cannot afford to make OS's and the like in there own right. | Sep 04 02:59 |
oiaohm | FOSS makes it possiable for them to share tech with the competitors so make what they need. | Sep 04 03:00 |
oiaohm | At a afordable cost. | Sep 04 03:00 |
stefan_ | oiaohm, because of the flagrant grammer mistake there, i find it hard to take your message seriously | Sep 04 03:00 |
Chips | stefan> I mostly stopped reading the article at when he says: "Why is Free Software so Bad in Quality?" That when the shill alert came on, or he does not know what he is talking about. | Sep 04 03:00 |
oiaohm | stefan_: If you want me to give a rats about grammer hope you like major spelling errors. | Sep 04 03:00 |
stefan_ | Chips> please, do read the rest of it. don't stop reading because you suspect you are not going to like it. that's closed-minded thinking | Sep 04 03:01 |
oiaohm | I am a heavy dyslexia suffer stefan_ I can only do one or the other not both. | Sep 04 03:01 |
Chips | I find the quality of most GPL software in my distro to be outstanding and beyond anything that MS can make | Sep 04 03:01 |
stefan_ | OK oiaohm :) | Sep 04 03:01 |
sebsebseb | Chips: same here | Sep 04 03:01 |
oiaohm | Foss makes money. | Sep 04 03:02 |
Why don't you spare us the troll, stephan, and ask us what's troubling you? | Sep 04 03:02 | |
oiaohm | If foss did not make companies money companies would not fund developers to work on it that simple. | Sep 04 03:02 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah seems so | Sep 04 03:02 |
counter, buy hardware that does not suck and complain to the maker. -> stefan_: but doesn't it just suck to have to search all kinds of user forums to get something to start working, when it should have worked right away? | Sep 04 03:02 | |
oiaohm | Sections of Foss are well funded sections are not. | Sep 04 03:02 |
oiaohm | Mostly linked to how much that section of market is prepaid to put up to find developers stefan_ | Sep 04 03:03 |
There's nothing free software can do about winmodems and other hardware that's designed to be impossible to use and such hardware is always second rate. | Sep 04 03:03 | |
stefan_ | my basic trouble is economy, i.e. surviving: "The attempts of the FOSS movement to present a coherent economic case have been totally unconvincing. After having condemned closed source as immoral, Richard Stallman’s basis for an economically sustainable basis for FOSS is donations (i.e begging) and selling T-shirts. " | Sep 04 03:04 |
oiaohm | Linux kernel economically works stefan_ | Sep 04 03:04 |
Ask IBM, Red Hat and Google about economics. | Sep 04 03:04 | |
oiaohm | appache again economically works. | Sep 04 03:04 |
stefan_ | oiaohm, why is that so? | Sep 04 03:04 |
Ask M$ about survival as they fire thousands of employees and go into debt. | Sep 04 03:05 | |
stefan_ | twitter, that is besides the point | Sep 04 03:05 |
oiaohm | Because with appache lot of web sites are run by business who employ developers to build web sites. | Sep 04 03:05 |
The economic case for free software is well established. | Sep 04 03:05 | |
bruce89 | I'm sure Red Hat's involvement in the S&P 500 disproves that | Sep 04 03:05 |
*Xarver has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 04 03:05 | |
oiaohm | If they design solo they would not have a server stefan_ | Sep 04 03:05 |
stefan_ | what is Red Hat's involvement in the S&P 500? | Sep 04 03:05 |
oiaohm | that was cheep that simple. | Sep 04 03:05 |
Chips | next quarter could be most interesting for MS, will they get a small bump out of Seven? | Sep 04 03:05 |
There are thousands of distributions used all around the world. This is a model that works. | Sep 04 03:06 | |
oiaohm | Particular markets FOSS model works perfectly. | Sep 04 03:06 |
oiaohm | Those markets products are great. | Sep 04 03:06 |
bruce89 | stefan_: they're in it | Sep 04 03:06 |
oiaohm | Like appache is the most dominate web server. | Sep 04 03:06 |
oiaohm | php is the most dominate web site scripting langauge. | Sep 04 03:07 |
stefan_ | The question is: what do the people who are involved in developing Ubuntu (and/or other free software) do to make enough money to pay for food and hosing? | Sep 04 03:07 |
For developers, the economic case is especially strong. You can either pay lots of money for SDKs that yank you around or you can get the GNU tool chain at no cost and thousands of examples. | Sep 04 03:07 | |
stefan_ | *housing? | Sep 04 03:07 |
bruce89 | code? | Sep 04 03:07 |
What do you do to make a living? | Sep 04 03:07 | |
oiaohm | Desktop is one of the hard markets stefan_ | Sep 04 03:07 |
Why do I care? | Sep 04 03:07 | |
stefan_ | I'm a student at a university | Sep 04 03:07 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu is having to target servers to pay some of there costs. | Sep 04 03:07 |
stefan_ | so I am not biased at this point ;-) | Sep 04 03:07 |
Very good. Now would you ever think to sell software and compete against M$ directly? | Sep 04 03:08 | |
oiaohm | Because server market is one of the areas that will pay. | Sep 04 03:08 |
oiaohm | FOSS is a different model. | Sep 04 03:08 |
Do you think you would make a very good living with a non free text editor, for example? | Sep 04 03:08 | |
oiaohm | FOSS is about sharing of code. | Sep 04 03:08 |
oiaohm | To allow things to happen that companies normally could not do alone. | Sep 04 03:08 |
As in, do you think you can succeed where Word Perfect failed? | Sep 04 03:08 | |
stefan_ | this is not about me | Sep 04 03:09 |
oiaohm | Foss also allows things claimed to be impossable to become possable. | Sep 04 03:09 |
Economics IS about you. It's about rational individual choices. | Sep 04 03:09 | |
Chips | I remember a long time ago when I tinkered with OS/2, reading that IBM telling users to move to Linux. Because IBM had decided it could not compete with MS Windows marketing. It also decided that nobody could build software for the Windows platform that was profitable, before MS came in and hosed it. Therefore, only free OS software, in IBM's words could ever have a chance to compete | Sep 04 03:09 |
oiaohm | Like the development of the Linux kernel at moment heading to having a RTOS support in a desktop kernel. | Sep 04 03:09 |
Rather than try to compete against Word, would you do the practical thing and use Open Office, Kword, Google docs, or AbiWord and modify it to suit your purposes? | Sep 04 03:10 | |
oiaohm | Now as a solo company how much would it cost to make the Linux kernel stefan_ | Sep 04 03:10 |
oiaohm | Or even just apache. | Sep 04 03:10 |
If you modified it, would it cost you anything to share the modifications? | Sep 04 03:10 | |
The same principles drive every piece of free software. | Sep 04 03:10 | |
oiaohm | you are looking at huge ammounts of money stefan_ | Sep 04 03:10 |
oiaohm | Very few solo companies could aford to do so. | Sep 04 03:10 |
oiaohm | That is the encommics of FOSS | Sep 04 03:11 |
It's cheaper and easier to use the free thing than it is to use the non free thing. | Sep 04 03:11 | |
oiaohm | They make the impossable possiable. | Sep 04 03:11 |
Chips | <stefan_> The question is: what do the people who are involved in developing Ubuntu (and/or other free software) do to make enough money to pay for food and hosing? IS IT ALL ABOUT MONEY? Does everyone now have to make money on everything they do? | Sep 04 03:11 |
stefan_ | Chips, you definately need *some* money in order to survive in life | Sep 04 03:12 |
There is money to be made customizing software. Most programers do this for a living and could use free software more easily than non free software. | Sep 04 03:12 | |
oiaohm | There is also what I call the black maket of developers stefan_ | Sep 04 03:12 |
Chips | Why do we have to pay for the wheel to be re-invented every time? | Sep 04 03:12 |
Everyone has to eat. | Sep 04 03:12 | |
oiaohm | You are employeed by a company to look after something. | Sep 04 03:12 |
oiaohm | They don't have enough work for you. you cannot work for a different company contract does not allow it. | Sep 04 03:12 |
stefan_ | indeed, everyone has to eat. so,why not pay people for what they are the best at? | Sep 04 03:12 |
oiaohm | But company will allow you to work on FOSS project on side. | Sep 04 03:12 |
There's zero reward for trying to sell your software. | Sep 04 03:13 | |
oiaohm | What would have been wasted time without FOSS gets used for something. | Sep 04 03:13 |
Chips | Once MS is gone, or even before when GNU/Linux gains even more share, they will be niche areas that can sell programs, example, games | Sep 04 03:13 |
oiaohm | Some cases turning out great for the company. | Sep 04 03:13 |
Programmers are better off in a free market of the kind free software provides. | Sep 04 03:13 | |
Outside of that, they are constrained by owners who exploit them. | Sep 04 03:13 | |
and users | Sep 04 03:14 | |
oiaohm | The big error in the logic is that FOSS developers have to be paid to eat from FOSS stefan_ | Sep 04 03:14 |
stefan_ | what do they do to eat now, then? | Sep 04 03:14 |
oiaohm | There are lot of support roles and the like that have to be done so systems work. | Sep 04 03:14 |
The non free proposition is a lie. | Sep 04 03:14 | |
Eat the rich, what eles? | Sep 04 03:15 | |
oiaohm | Lets look a closed source. | Sep 04 03:15 |
stefan_ | that support is needed means that software is not user-friendly enough | Sep 04 03:15 |
Chips | and if you think MS is going keep paying big bucks to write software, think again. They will move the sofware business to India and pay 1 to $2 an hour for coders there | Sep 04 03:15 |
oiaohm | You write once sell millions of times. | Sep 04 03:15 |
oiaohm | Developers still only get paided once. | Sep 04 03:15 |
Free software support is much better than non free. | Sep 04 03:15 | |
oiaohm | Company takes all the proft from the developers work. | Sep 04 03:15 |
stefan_ | the programming could be done in india, but te thinking will still be done in the western world | Sep 04 03:15 |
oiaohm | Foss developers gets payed about the same. | Sep 04 03:15 |
stefan_ | all they learn in india is how to build websites | Sep 04 03:16 |
Chips | MS already threatrened the US about doing that | Sep 04 03:16 |
oiaohm | code is just released free. | Sep 04 03:16 |
If you think looking things up in WE trolled out forums is a pain, try wasting hours on the phone with tech support of any kind. | Sep 04 03:16 | |
oiaohm | Cost of maintaining the code is spreed by having developers in different companys. | Sep 04 03:16 |
oiaohm | Some of those developers would other wise be sitting around doing nothing. | Sep 04 03:16 |
oiaohm | and getting paid | Sep 04 03:17 |
Plenty of people make money "supporting" free software the same way, if you want that kind of thing. | Sep 04 03:17 | |
oiaohm | Since the time was a waste product is not really costing the company anything. | Sep 04 03:17 |
Chips | there will always be a market for some types of commercial software, or paid closed source, like games | Sep 04 03:17 |
Chips | but operating systems, I doubt that | Sep 04 03:17 |
oiaohm | Foss basically is targeting the wasted developer time stefan_ | Sep 04 03:17 |
oiaohm | And theres is a crap load of it out there. | Sep 04 03:17 |
Chips | oiaohm> windows is krap | Sep 04 03:18 |
oiaohm | Even some of MS developers work on Foss projects here and there. | Sep 04 03:18 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: they also have an open source lab | Sep 04 03:18 |
oiaohm | Like sending patches to apache and firefox so they work better on windows. | Sep 04 03:18 |
Chips | yes, there are some good people working for ms | Sep 04 03:18 |
The most important question to ask about free software economics is, "why would I pay someone money for second rate, restrictive software when I can have better at no charge?" | Sep 04 03:18 | |
oiaohm | There are almost no software company not using Foss somewhere. | Sep 04 03:19 |
stefan_ | oiahm: the fact that "Even some of MS developers work on Foss projects here and there" points out that FOSS on it's own, is not a feasible economic system | Sep 04 03:19 |
oiaohm | Or working on Foss software. | Sep 04 03:19 |
oiaohm | stefan_: way did MS do it stefan_ | Sep 04 03:19 |
oiaohm | MS wants to sell product of course. | Sep 04 03:19 |
I don't follow stefan. That seems to indicate that M$ is unable to duplicate what free software does. | Sep 04 03:19 | |
oiaohm | To see more product Foss software has to work. | Sep 04 03:20 |
Chips | for a not feasible economic system it is still gaining market share for how long now? | Sep 04 03:20 |
oiaohm | That is what you are missing. | Sep 04 03:20 |
oiaohm | ie is a circle. | Sep 04 03:20 |
stefan_ | MS /is/ unable to do what ubuntu does: that is *the* reason that i switched from windows to ubuntu | Sep 04 03:20 |
oiaohm | MS needs foss to sell product. | Sep 04 03:20 |
M$ has always taken other people's code when they can, then excluded the creators. This was not a sustainable strategy because they ran out of suckers to rob. | Sep 04 03:20 | |
sebsebseb | stefan_: and what's that? | Sep 04 03:21 |
oiaohm | IBM needs Foss to sell product. | Sep 04 03:21 |
oiaohm | Dell needs Foss to sell product. | Sep 04 03:21 |
oiaohm | Note Dell works on ubuntu. | Sep 04 03:21 |
Chips | anyway, FOSS works for me, better than that Malware Target Blue Screen of Death M$ Windose | Sep 04 03:21 |
Tell me something M$ can actually do. | Sep 04 03:21 | |
sebsebseb | stefan_: Apple has taken a lot of FOSS and made it part of OS X or easilley available to it | Sep 04 03:21 |
oiaohm | That is the economic issue. | Sep 04 03:21 |
sebsebseb | OS X is based on FreeBSD if I have this correct, which is open source | Sep 04 03:21 |
oiaohm | Foss is a symbolic releation ship. | Sep 04 03:22 |
BSD is free software. | Sep 04 03:22 | |
sebsebseb | stefan_: easily available for it above | Sep 04 03:22 |
stefan_ | so the conclusion of that is that companies use open source in order to sell more | Sep 04 03:22 |
Chips | another MS fanboi pertending to be a Linux user | Sep 04 03:22 |
stefan_ | that is not the goal of open source, as i have interpreted it | Sep 04 03:22 |
oiaohm | It allows them to sell more stefan_ | Sep 04 03:22 |
stefan_ | yes oiaohm, i agree | Sep 04 03:22 |
sebsebseb | Chips: who? | Sep 04 03:22 |
Chips | not u | Sep 04 03:23 |
oiaohm | That is the economic link of Foss. | Sep 04 03:23 |
stefan_ | but isn't (one of the) the goal(s) of open source to let microsoft sell *less*? | Sep 04 03:23 |
sebsebseb | Chips: stefan_ ? | Sep 04 03:23 |
bruce89 | no | Sep 04 03:23 |
oiaohm | Foss is to allow companies and people to do things to make them profit. | Sep 04 03:23 |
oiaohm | Not to be sold to make the profit. | Sep 04 03:23 |
stefan_ | who do you mean by 'them'?' | Sep 04 03:23 |
sebsebseb | bruce89: the guy who wrote the article? | Sep 04 03:23 |
bruce89 | the point of FOSS is to do stuff, not to stop others from doing what they do | Sep 04 03:23 |
Chips | its not about MS, how much they sell | Sep 04 03:24 |
I don't know what the goals of open source are. The goal of free software is freedom. | Sep 04 03:24 | |
oiaohm | Everyone stefan_ | Sep 04 03:24 |
oiaohm | That is the thing about Foss even you could use it to support something you are doing to make a profit stefan_ | Sep 04 03:24 |
sebsebseb | twitter: open source is a development model, but people tend to mention the freedoms as well http://www.opensource.org | Sep 04 03:24 |
stefan_ | Foss is to allow companies and people to do things to make *everyone* profit? that is impossible | Sep 04 03:24 |
Performance, security, quality and economy come from freedom. | Sep 04 03:24 | |
Everyone can profit. | Sep 04 03:24 | |
stefan_ | how | Sep 04 03:25 |
oiaohm | Remember what I said about open source make the impossiable possible. | Sep 04 03:25 |
bruce89 | stefan_: in most cases, FOSS is there because it can be done | Sep 04 03:25 |
by providing things of value | Sep 04 03:25 | |
sebsebseb | twitter: if I have this correct open source is seen as a great way to make software, and so is free software which is similar, but with free software it's more about the freedoms that are gained and the advantages of that | Sep 04 03:25 |
oiaohm | You can create websites major businesses .... all using stefan_ | Sep 04 03:25 |
oiaohm | Now if you are lazy Foss will never make you a profit. | Sep 04 03:25 |
I don't know what the open source people think. | Sep 04 03:25 | |
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 03:26 | |
oiaohm | Foss provides the fair chance for everyone to make a profit doing something stefan_ | Sep 04 03:26 |
stefan_ | my basic point is this: if you want good software, you will have to pay someone for it. | Sep 04 03:26 |
Free software is a great way to make software. | Sep 04 03:26 | |
stefan_ | does anyone disagree? | Sep 04 03:26 |
oiaohm | Completely | Sep 04 03:26 |
stefan_ | why | Sep 04 03:26 |
oiaohm | blender is one of the best 3d tools out there. | Sep 04 03:26 |
oiaohm | and its free. | Sep 04 03:26 |
Show me something great that free software does not do better. | Sep 04 03:26 | |
bruce89 | stefan_: not being rude, but surely if you don't understand FOSS, you shouldn't use it | Sep 04 03:26 |
oiaohm | And Foss stefan_ | Sep 04 03:27 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: sure, but it did start off as a commercial product, which failed as one, hence them open sourceing it | Sep 04 03:27 |
that is rude, bruce. | Sep 04 03:27 | |
bruce89 | more so than I planned | Sep 04 03:27 |
oiaohm | sebsebseb: it sucked as a commerical product | Sep 04 03:27 |
oiaohm | It could not keep up. | Sep 04 03:27 |
stefan_ | if someone who works at MS, makes FOSS in his spare time, then MS is financing FOSS. Doesn't that seem contradictory to you? | Sep 04 03:27 |
oiaohm | Developer did not want it to die. | Sep 04 03:27 |
it would be better to teach him what free software is than to tell him to go away. | Sep 04 03:27 | |
no | Sep 04 03:28 | |
oiaohm | stefan_: that is the open source world. | Sep 04 03:28 |
oiaohm | Things that seam insane are true. | Sep 04 03:28 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: ok if you say so, and that's the blender history I know, that it used to start off as being commercial | Sep 04 03:28 |
bruce89 | twitter: I know, I didn't mean it like that | Sep 04 03:28 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: I don't know much about blender, and yes I don't know how to use it | Sep 04 03:28 |
bruce89 | mind you, I don't know what I did mean | Sep 04 03:28 |
lol | Sep 04 03:28 | |
oiaohm | sebsebseb: once 3d houses could start adding there own features to blender its development took off. | Sep 04 03:28 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: it's not the kind of program that you just use, it has a steep learning curve, it seems | Sep 04 03:28 |
stefan_ | so, then you say that without MS, FOSS can not exist. | Sep 04 03:28 |
bruce89 | stefan_: how? | Sep 04 03:28 |
oiaohm | sebsebseb: mostly because 3d houses did not care about that bit. | Sep 04 03:29 |
Chips | Hey DaemonFC> have you seen this one? jibjab big box mart? Since you worked there. http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DpKv6RcXa2UI | Sep 04 03:29 |
oiaohm | sebsebseb: gettting movie out door was more important than interface. | Sep 04 03:29 |
now, stefan, you are being silly. | Sep 04 03:29 | |
sebsebseb | stefan_: sometimes commercial products don't work out so they get open sourced | Sep 04 03:29 |
M$ is a parasite. | Sep 04 03:29 | |
sebsebseb | stefan_: Blender is one example Netscape is another | Sep 04 03:29 |
DaemonFC | Chips: Yes, old, funny though | Sep 04 03:29 |
stefan_ | example of what? | Sep 04 03:29 |
oiaohm | sebsebseb: 2.50 has the interface fixed up to something new. | Sep 04 03:29 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: a closed source program becoming open source | Sep 04 03:29 |
bruce89 | Java surely | Sep 04 03:30 |
sebsebseb | yeah and Java is another | Sep 04 03:30 |
oiaohm | Lot of closed source programs released open source are companies dieing. | Sep 04 03:30 |
bruce89 | OOo | Sep 04 03:30 |
Mozilla is not doing well these days? I'm sorry to hear that. ha ha | Sep 04 03:30 | |
stefan_ | why is that silly? | Sep 04 03:30 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: ,but a lot of the time it's this, the program dies, or it gets open sourced | Sep 04 03:30 |
oiaohm | Last change to save self they release the source code. | Sep 04 03:30 |
oiaohm | change/chance | Sep 04 03:30 |
most of the time, commercial software started out as free software. | Sep 04 03:30 | |
Chips | DaemonFC> yes the jibjab site had some funny politcal stuff as well. | Sep 04 03:30 |
stefan_ | but if it was open source from the start, it would have died instantly | Sep 04 03:30 |
Mosaic -> Spyglass -> IE for example. | Sep 04 03:30 | |
oiaohm | Incorrect stefan_ | Sep 04 03:31 |
stefan_ | why | Sep 04 03:31 |
name some free software that has died | Sep 04 03:31 | |
bruce89 | has Linux died? | Sep 04 03:31 |
oiaohm | apache started out from scratch and its still alive and kicking. | Sep 04 03:31 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: commercial software can use open source as well, for example Safari or Google Chrome with the open source webkit rendering engine | Sep 04 03:31 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: it depends on the lisense | Sep 04 03:31 |
it is immortal. as long as people want the thing to do, they will have it | Sep 04 03:31 | |
sebsebseb | another example would be Cedega or Crossover Office, using Wine | Sep 04 03:31 |
stefan_ | let me ask this question: what is your ideal world, regarding software | Sep 04 03:31 |
stefan_ | ? | Sep 04 03:31 |
bruce89 | being forks of an old version of wine | Sep 04 03:31 |
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oiaohm | stefan_: there is no ideal world when it comes to software. | Sep 04 03:32 |
bruce89 | stefan_: for everyone to use what they like, without forcing other people to change | Sep 04 03:32 |
oiaohm | Everything is always in flux. | Sep 04 03:32 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: ideally most software should be opensource/freesoftware in my opinion, however sometimes maybe a program is better off being closed source, depending on the type of program it is | Sep 04 03:32 |
Chips | I thnk you have to go back to the early days, when RMS started his idea's of the GNU. When Bill G. wrote his letter to hobbyists, telling them they were all thieves. Not everyone believes in making money on every piece of software written. | Sep 04 03:32 |
I don't want to use non free software. | Sep 04 03:32 | |
oiaohm | Only thing I would change is make it illegal for closed source software to stop production without releasing its source code stefan_ | Sep 04 03:33 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: that sounds good | Sep 04 03:33 |
oiaohm | Because not releasing the source code leaves end users stuck stefan_ | Sep 04 03:33 |
bruce89 | that's the problem with non-free formats | Sep 04 03:33 |
stefan_ | most end users are not educated well enough to use source code | Sep 04 03:33 |
Non free software should not have government copyright protection. | Sep 04 03:33 | |
DaemonFC | I'm going to make my own kernel, I'm tired of wrestling around with old bugs that have been fixed for months | Sep 04 03:33 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: altough some closed software, should just die really, becaue of the type of software it is, for example a Windows virus :D | Sep 04 03:33 |
oiaohm | If you ahve the source you can employ someone to work on it. | Sep 04 03:34 |
Chips | More and more, in the future software will be free, except for the niches. Or it will be pirated, like in China | Sep 04 03:34 |
bruce89 | "In the 60s, we wrote Free Software, but it was just called Software" | Sep 04 03:34 |
oiaohm | There will always be places in the market for closed source. | Sep 04 03:34 |
What education is required to use Ubuntu, besides washing away M$ lies? | Sep 04 03:34 | |
sebsebseb | Chips: pirating software also locks people in | Sep 04 03:34 |
Chips | either way, the days of making money selling a lot of software are coming to an end | Sep 04 03:34 |
oiaohm | Just in future it will be a different blance. | Sep 04 03:34 |
oiaohm | We got out of blance for a while. | Sep 04 03:35 |
Free software is a lot easier to use and keep than non free software. I'm always amazed at the complexity and trouble Windows is. | Sep 04 03:35 | |
Chips | sebsebseb> agreed, and I did not say it was right, only that is the logical conclusion | Sep 04 03:35 |
sebsebseb | pirating software is bad, and if more people knew about those great opensource/freesoftware alternatives, well :) | Sep 04 03:35 |
bruce89 | also, with FOSS, there's always someone who know how it works, because they wrote it | Sep 04 03:36 |
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Chips | that is why we are here, to help them learn | Sep 04 03:36 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it may be alright except that if there's a bug, I'll find it because it affects my hardware even if it was on someone's "compatibility list" | Sep 04 03:36 |
oiaohm | Not always bruce89 that is a bit of a myth. | Sep 04 03:36 |
oiaohm | Sometimes key developers die bruce89 | Sep 04 03:36 |
bruce89 | well, unless they've died | Sep 04 03:36 |
bruce89 | or gone to prison... | Sep 04 03:36 |
stefan_ | yes, bruce, but do you really have to know how a microwave oven works, in order to use it? | Sep 04 03:36 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: with free opensource/freesoftware the code will live on, as long as someone can still develope it | Sep 04 03:36 |
bruce89 | of course | Sep 04 03:36 |
stefan_ | then we disagree :) | Sep 04 03:36 |
oiaohm | Yet a microwave could have open source inside it how would you know stefan_ | Sep 04 03:37 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: there are quite a lot of closed source games out there, that never got open sourced, and don't get sold anymore, for example | Sep 04 03:37 |
bruce89 | stefan_: I meant that if something broke, you can ask | Sep 04 03:37 |
M$ gets i4i relief? http://www.pcworld.com/article/171439/microsoft_gets_reprieve_in_word_case.html | Sep 04 03:37 | |
oiaohm | Lets take most adsl and dsl modems stefan_ | Sep 04 03:37 |
DaemonFC | I hate dealing with distribution kernels | Sep 04 03:37 |
stefan_ | that means that it worked in the first place, which is not always the truth | Sep 04 03:37 |
US law sucks. No justice. | Sep 04 03:37 | |
oiaohm | Most of thoses have Linux or freebsd inside stefan_ | Sep 04 03:37 |
bruce89 | I don't have a clue how the Kernel works really, but I don't need to | Sep 04 03:37 |
oiaohm | So most people with internet are indirectly funding FOSS stefan_ | Sep 04 03:37 |
stefan_ | but what if it breaks down, bruce | Sep 04 03:38 |
stefan_ | ? | Sep 04 03:38 |
bruce89 | I ask someone who does | Sep 04 03:38 |
oiaohm | FOSS is the magical invisable market. | Sep 04 03:38 |
Chips | <twitter> US law sucks. No justice." Not sure its going get any better | Sep 04 03:38 |
oiaohm | Its all around you yet you don't see it stefan_ | Sep 04 03:38 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: What the hell is linux-next? | Sep 04 03:38 |
DaemonFC | that's new to me | Sep 04 03:38 |
DaemonFC | should I patch with rc8, then rc8-git2, then linux-next? | Sep 04 03:39 |
oiaohm | linux-next is the test branch of the Linux kernel for what might be in the next version. | Sep 04 03:39 |
oiaohm | Note the word might. | Sep 04 03:39 |
things might get better. If East Texas does not want to be a total laughing stock, they need to bust M$. -> Microsoft said it was pleased with the appeals court decision and that it looks forward to presenting its case at a hearing on Sept. 23. | Sep 04 03:39 | |
oiaohm | Where linus picks up most of his patches from DaemonFC | Sep 04 03:39 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: So if I use the rc8 patch for 2.6.31, do I have to patch with git2 then linux-next? | Sep 04 03:40 |
DaemonFC | or just rc8 then linux-next? | Sep 04 03:40 |
oiaohm | Normaly I don't touch linux-next | Sep 04 03:40 |
oiaohm | Just rc | Sep 04 03:40 |
What if your airplane should suddenly turn into jello? stefan_: but what if it breaks down, bruce | Sep 04 03:40 | |
Everyone would die! | Sep 04 03:40 | |
DaemonFC | I wonder if nvidia-common still kills the kernel package | Sep 04 03:40 |
DaemonFC | guess I'll find out | Sep 04 03:41 |
bruce89 | at least it would cushion the fall | Sep 04 03:41 |
yes, but they wold drown! | Sep 04 03:41 | |
Chips | MS will never stop selling Office | Sep 04 03:41 |
oiaohm | stefan_: its also like one aircraft company demo a Linux that can reboot in under 1 second for nav displayes. | Sep 04 03:41 |
horrors, aluminum turning to jello at 500 MPH and 20,000 feet! | Sep 04 03:42 | |
sebsebseb | Chips: well we'll see, but there's going to be a Office 2010 online to compete with Google Docs | Sep 04 03:42 |
sebsebseb | Chips: free to people with live account | Sep 04 03:42 |
bruce89 | I doubt that aluminium would turn into jelly | Sep 04 03:42 |
oiaohm | Your live can be in Linux's hands and you never know it stefan_ | Sep 04 03:42 |
oh and gnu/linux might go away. | Sep 04 03:42 | |
Chips | not going happen, too much money is changing hands | Sep 04 03:42 |
DaemonFC | I've got enough experience to build my own kernel, it's just a pain to maintain my own Nvidia driver for it | Sep 04 03:42 |
everyone run. | Sep 04 03:42 | |
sebsebseb | Chips: it is going to happen, I read articles, and they confirmed it them selves | Sep 04 03:42 |
DaemonFC | cause whenever there's an X update it replaces some files that the Nvidia driver needed and you have to reinstall the nvidia driver after X crashes :P | Sep 04 03:42 |
VMware kicks out M$ http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/090309-vmworld-citrix-microsoft.html | Sep 04 03:43 | |
bruce89 | anyway, sorry for being so rude | Sep 04 03:43 |
no shills for them. | Sep 04 03:43 | |
oiaohm | Anyone here dare fly in a Plain using MS for nav? | Sep 04 03:43 |
sebsebseb | Chips: article or articles, one or two, anyway they will still be selling the normal type of version as well | Sep 04 03:43 |
DaemonFC | my GPS runs Linux 2.6.17 and some kind of miniature GNOME | Sep 04 03:43 |
DaemonFC | it's pretty badass | Sep 04 03:43 |
bruce89 | Garmin? | Sep 04 03:43 |
=? VMware has defended its decision to place new restrictions on sponsors and exhibitors at this year’s VMworld conference, blaming the move on “shenanigans” pulled by Microsoft at last year’s VMworld in Las Vegas. | Sep 04 03:43 | |
stefan_ | did someone read a message from me, saying that dying was bad?:P | Sep 04 03:43 |
DaemonFC | except it has FAT32 for the file system | Sep 04 03:43 |
DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 04 03:43 |
sebsebseb | that's a point stefan_ for really important computers, hardly anyone uses Microsoft | Sep 04 03:44 |
stefan_ | i know that seb | Sep 04 03:44 |
oiaohm | Lot these days use Linux stefan_ for important stuff. | Sep 04 03:44 |
stefan_ | but that doesn't mean that linux/unix can uphold itself *economically* | Sep 04 03:44 |
oiaohm | Someone has to be paid to make those systems. | Sep 04 03:44 |
bruce89 | it seems to have for 15? years | Sep 04 03:44 |
Chips | sebsebseb> Chips: it is going to happen" You think, well, how many Billions would MS lose if that happens? I tell you, they settle with i4i or they invest in the court system, or maybe they patch Office. But you can bet that Office will still be selling when the deadline comes. But I hope I am wrong | Sep 04 03:45 |
oiaohm | That is where paid developers of Linux come from stefan_ | Sep 04 03:45 |
bruce89 | of course, FOSS is older than that | Sep 04 03:45 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: Unix goes back to the 70's and yes there are still companies using it today | Sep 04 03:45 |
M$, always trashy when they crash the party -> Matheson specifically referred to Microsoft’s casino chip ploy, and claimed that Microsoft representatives were kicked out of the Venetian casino, where the conference was being held, because the giveaway violated a Vegas rule against giving away poker chips. The chips were reportedly authentic $1 Venetian chips in a package that said “Looking for your best bet? You won’t | Sep 04 03:45 | |
stefan_ | in these 15 years, software companies have been around.. | Sep 04 03:45 |
bruce89 | but their code is still out there | Sep 04 03:45 |
oiaohm | We are getting to the end of the cycle stefan_ | Sep 04 03:45 |
bruce89 | look at Nautilus for example | Sep 04 03:45 |
sebsebseb | Chips: yes the BBC article mentioned how they would lose like four billion doing it | Sep 04 03:45 |
bruce89 | The company that backed it bellied up, but the code lives on | Sep 04 03:45 |
oiaohm | Just make a chart of numbers of software companies doing closed source and those doing open stefan_ | Sep 04 03:46 |
oiaohm | You will notice a little trend. | Sep 04 03:46 |
stefan_ | which is... | Sep 04 03:46 |
oiaohm | Closed is dieing out. | Sep 04 03:46 |
stefan_ | so where are the Open-people getting money from? | Sep 04 03:47 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: already told you, IBM, and Google, for example | Sep 04 03:47 |
oiaohm | Support services hardware bundling. | Sep 04 03:47 |
where are the grocers getting their money? | Sep 04 03:47 | |
oiaohm | Custom solutions stefan_ | Sep 04 03:47 |
how can people possibly cook food for a living? | Sep 04 03:47 | |
stefan_ | so the people who are working for IBM and Google /also/ program most of the ubuntu stuff? | Sep 04 03:47 |
DaemonFC | stefan_: According to the Linux Foundation, about 75% of the kernel developers are paid employees of large companies that use or support Linux as part of their business | Sep 04 03:47 |
bruce89 | stefan_: well, not them | Sep 04 03:48 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: "most of the Ubuntu" stuff heh | Sep 04 03:48 |
oiaohm | Think of floss money stream as the same as cooks. | Sep 04 03:48 |
DaemonFC | stefan_: it's a pretty massive undertaking and without the corporate backing, Linux would have been the next HURD | Sep 04 03:48 |
bruce89 | stefan_: 99.9% of "Ubuntu" stuff is by someone else | Sep 04 03:48 |
users program most of the stuff | Sep 04 03:48 | |
oiaohm | People put to getter different floss solutions in combinations that pay. | Sep 04 03:48 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: really all Ubuntu is, is a load of selected opensource/freesoftware and there branding and such | Sep 04 03:48 |
that's what free software is all about | Sep 04 03:48 | |
Chips | sebsebseb> 4 billion, they will find a way. MS is a very determined company, they will leave no stone unturned to find a way, or to grease the right hand | Sep 04 03:48 |
bruce89 | Ubuntu just take the credit if you can imagine such a thing | Sep 04 03:48 |
oiaohm | Foss makes it money indirectly that is the problem for people looking at it stefan_ | Sep 04 03:48 |
oiaohm | Even MS makes a lot of money form the indirect. | Sep 04 03:49 |
oiaohm | Like charaging partners to have access to support services. | Sep 04 03:49 |
stefan_ | elaborate on 'indirect'? | Sep 04 03:49 |
bruce89 | not direc | Sep 04 03:49 |
oiaohm | MS sells support stefan_ | Sep 04 03:49 |
oiaohm | As well as software. | Sep 04 03:49 |
bruce89 | not selling the software == indirect | Sep 04 03:49 |
oiaohm | Foss just cuts outs out selling the software | Sep 04 03:50 |
DaemonFC | stefan_: Ubuntu basically repackages everyone elses work | Sep 04 03:50 |
oiaohm | And goes after the inderects. | Sep 04 03:50 |
DaemonFC | spotting a Ubuntu kernel contribution is kind of like saying you saw bigfoot | Sep 04 03:50 |
stefan_ | support? I needed more support with Ubuntu (trough forums) than I ever needed with Windows | Sep 04 03:50 |
oiaohm | Companies stefan_ | Sep 04 03:50 |
oiaohm | that need there systems working 24/7 | Sep 04 03:50 |
stefan_ | well, companies suck, anyway:P | Sep 04 03:50 |
sebsebseb | Chips: Here you go http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8148969.stm | Sep 04 03:50 |
Chips | stefan_> are you an Ubuntu user? | Sep 04 03:51 |
stefan_ | yes | Sep 04 03:51 |
oiaohm | This is the issue to Foss as just a end user you suck. | Sep 04 03:51 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: there is a learning curve for any OS | Sep 04 03:51 |
oiaohm | Because you don't pay. | Sep 04 03:51 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: at some stage, you learnt Windows | Sep 04 03:51 |
oiaohm | There is a problem with the desktop market and Foss | Sep 04 03:51 |
oiaohm | Both are kinda incompadible. | Sep 04 03:51 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Should I select NUMA support? | Sep 04 03:52 |
DaemonFC | I've never noticed that option | Sep 04 03:52 |
DaemonFC | I have a Core 2 Duo if that helps | Sep 04 03:52 |
oiaohm | How many CPU's. | Sep 04 03:52 |
Chips | sebsebseb> thx's 4 the link | Sep 04 03:52 |
stefan_ | you raise an interesting point oiaohm | Sep 04 03:52 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: true the distros don't all work properly together with each other | Sep 04 03:52 |
stefan_ | what is the incompatibility? | Sep 04 03:52 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: One CPU with two cores | Sep 04 03:52 |
sebsebseb | Chips: no problem | Sep 04 03:52 |
oiaohm | Will not make much difference between DaemonFC | Sep 04 03:52 |
DaemonFC | so no then? | Sep 04 03:52 |
oiaohm | Not enough cores DaemonFC about 8 to 12 you start seeing NUMA effects. | Sep 04 03:53 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu defaults to yes | Sep 04 03:53 |
oiaohm | It does not hurt DaemonFC | Sep 04 03:53 |
DaemonFC | it says say yes if you have an i7, Opteron, or EM64T NUMA CPU | Sep 04 03:53 |
sebsebseb | Chips: hmm I typed in the http://www. normalley those links are http://whatever it is goes here | Sep 04 03:53 |
sebsebseb | Chips: so the link I gave looks a bit odd to me | Sep 04 03:53 |
oiaohm | Note number of cores with aht DaemonFC | Sep 04 03:53 |
oiaohm | stefan_: do you as desktop users pay people to make custom solutions for you. | Sep 04 03:54 |
DaemonFC | fstack protector should probably be on | Sep 04 03:54 |
DaemonFC | that didn't exist til 2.6.30 I don't think | Sep 04 03:54 |
stefan_ | Chips, does it surprise you that I use Ubuntu? | Sep 04 03:54 |
oiaohm | stefan_: no . So you are not compadible with the Foss model of operation. | Sep 04 03:54 |
sebsebseb | Chips: yep no www. in those links, and a lot of links now days, since browsers don't need it anymore | Sep 04 03:54 |
bruce89 | sebsebseb: it was only a convention I think | Sep 04 03:55 |
oiaohm | stefan_: reason why Ubuntu is trying to get dell and others to work with them. | Sep 04 03:55 |
oiaohm | stefan_: desktop users will pay hardware makers something. | Sep 04 03:55 |
Chips | yep, this works http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8148969.stm | Sep 04 03:55 |
bruce89 | sebsebseb: World Wide Web | Sep 04 03:55 |
sebsebseb | bruce89: replying to other channal here hmm | Sep 04 03:56 |
bruce89 | you asked a question in the wrong one | Sep 04 03:56 |
oiaohm | stefan_: there is a encommic model behind foss is just a unique one. | Sep 04 03:56 |
sebsebseb | bruce89: no I wanted to ask in there, since it seemed to me like a bit of a silly question | Sep 04 03:56 |
oiaohm | stefan_: that is not compadible with eveyrthing. | Sep 04 03:56 |
bruce89 | no questions are silly | Sep 04 03:56 |
sebsebseb | bruce89: a convention meaning? for anyone that might end up reading this log, apparantly trolls might | Sep 04 03:57 |
bruce89 | if that's how you're going to play this, be that way | Sep 04 03:57 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Ubuntu seems to turn on a lot of debugging stuff that I don't care about :P | Sep 04 03:57 |
DaemonFC | probably makes crash reports more useful but I would think it slows the kernel down some | Sep 04 03:58 |
sebsebseb | bruce89: well log not on website yet, and it's silly to have these kind of chats in here, we have another channal for that | Sep 04 03:58 |
bruce89 | really, you lot should be ashamed of yourselves with all this M$ crap, it's sad and pathetic | Sep 04 03:58 |
stefan_ | what is the economic model behind foss, then? | Sep 04 03:58 |
*bruce89 (n=bruce89@78.33.73.43) has left #boycottnovell ("Get the champagne out") | Sep 04 03:58 | |
stefan_ | companies pay for it? | Sep 04 03:58 |
sebsebseb | he doesn't like how you guys put M$ rather than Microsoft | Sep 04 03:59 |
stefan_ | seb, who are you referring to? :) | Sep 04 03:59 |
sebsebseb | bruce | Sep 04 03:59 |
oiaohm | Drop the idea that is has to be directly paid for stefan_ | Sep 04 04:00 |
oiaohm | FOSS is about code sharing to make profit. | Sep 04 04:00 |
stefan_ | how is it indirectly paid for, then? | Sep 04 04:00 |
oiaohm | Companies higher developers to make them like a rounter to sell. | Sep 04 04:00 |
oiaohm | In that a OS is required. | Sep 04 04:01 |
oiaohm | So Foss is used. | Sep 04 04:01 |
oiaohm | The developer submits code back. | Sep 04 04:01 |
oiaohm | Next product builder around has better code to work with so can make a better product. | Sep 04 04:01 |
oiaohm | So it repeats company is making profit. | Sep 04 04:01 |
oiaohm | Funding developers working on Foss | Sep 04 04:01 |
oiaohm | So the developers are not short of money far from it they are well paid. | Sep 04 04:02 |
oiaohm | There is example after example of this stefan_ | Sep 04 04:03 |
Chips | stefab_> drop the idea that all software has to be paid for period | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | Google makes a seach engine. | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | The need a OS under. | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | They went Linux. | Sep 04 04:03 |
Chips | not everyone writes software with the idea of ever being paid | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | they have to maintain it so they provide paid developers. | Sep 04 04:03 |
stefan_ | so, the people who develop software get their income from elsewhere? | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | And add new features. | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | Yep stefan_ | Sep 04 04:03 |
oiaohm | They are being paid for something else. | Sep 04 04:04 |
oiaohm | The list of something elses are endless. | Sep 04 04:04 |
stefan_ | so the people who are best at developing software have actually chosen a career in non-software developing | Sep 04 04:04 |
stefan_ | seems like a paradox to me | Sep 04 04:04 |
oiaohm | You still need to develop software. | Sep 04 04:05 |
oiaohm | Like google needs cluster filesystems. | Sep 04 04:05 |
wallclimber | oiaohm, you deserve a medal for exhibiting such patience and good nature... | Sep 04 04:05 |
Chips | Oiaohm, correct me if I am wrong, but the kernel gets most of their money from Limo members, cellphone makers, IBM etc | Sep 04 04:05 |
Chips | tivo | Sep 04 04:05 |
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 04 04:05 | |
oiaohm | Linux foundation brings in a lot Chips | Sep 04 04:05 |
Chips | Red Hat and other companies sell support for businesses and servers | Sep 04 04:06 |
wallclimber | stefan, i'm dumb as a box of rocks, but even I can understand what oiaohm has been explaining to you | Sep 04 04:06 |
oiaohm | Its not just one small group where the money comes from Chips | Sep 04 04:06 |
Chips | agreed, I was only hitting the obvious | Sep 04 04:06 |
oiaohm | Lot of these companies are higher full time software developers stefan_ | Sep 04 04:06 |
wallclimber | anyway, I'm up past my bedtime...just dropped in to wish everyone a good weekend... | Sep 04 04:06 |
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 04 04:06 | |
oiaohm | They job is to look after the open source software and fix bugs that the companies depend on stefan_ | Sep 04 04:07 |
*twitter (n=willhill@97-113-230-249.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 04:07 | |
oiaohm | At google 20 percent of there time gets paid to work on there own projects as well stefan_ | Sep 04 04:07 |
oiaohm | yes 20 percent of there wage is to do work of there own choosing. Nothing to do with googles needs. | Sep 04 04:08 |
stefan_ | oiaohm, that stuff is new to me. if it is true, then OK | Sep 04 04:08 |
oiaohm | Its true. | Sep 04 04:08 |
Chips | just because most GPL software is free in most GNU/Linux distro's for home use, doesn't mean some company has not paid to use it somewhere else, like the cellphone makers for example | Sep 04 04:08 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: If all I use is Ext4, I don't need Ext2 or Ext3 drivers, right? | Sep 04 04:08 |
Chips | part of it I should say | Sep 04 04:09 |
DaemonFC | I had wondered about that | Sep 04 04:09 |
oiaohm | I still build them just in case of problems DaemonFC | Sep 04 04:09 |
oiaohm | Ie ext4 is not old enough to go solo yet DaemonFC | Sep 04 04:09 |
DaemonFC | I use extents on Ext4 | Sep 04 04:09 |
DaemonFC | so it can't ever be mounted as ext3 anyway | Sep 04 04:09 |
oiaohm | Ext4 can mount ext3. | Sep 04 04:09 |
oiaohm | ext2 don't know fully. | Sep 04 04:10 |
oiaohm | Should work. | Sep 04 04:10 |
DaemonFC | not if you have extents | Sep 04 04:10 |
DaemonFC | ext3 driver can't figure out what those files are | Sep 04 04:10 |
DaemonFC | I'll build them as modules | Sep 04 04:10 |
oiaohm | Ext4 driver detects ext3 | Sep 04 04:10 |
oiaohm | And will not use extents on ext3 partition. | Sep 04 04:10 |
DaemonFC | you can only go back to ext3 if you delete all the ext4 files that use extents | Sep 04 04:10 |
DaemonFC | and since that's every file on my disk, that's not gonna happen | Sep 04 04:10 |
oiaohm | stefan_: what google does keeps there staff turn over low. | Sep 04 04:11 |
DaemonFC | I was talking with Eric Sandeen at Red Hat about Ext4 at one point | Sep 04 04:12 |
DaemonFC | he said it would be easier to reformat a volume as ext3 than to try to mount an ext4 volume as ext3 | Sep 04 04:12 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 04 04:12 |
stefan_ | so it is paying their employees in order for them to exercise their hobbies, so they don't quit? | Sep 04 04:12 |
oiaohm | It also turns out some of there hobbies have been very productive. | Sep 04 04:13 |
oiaohm | That a normal management would have refused them from doing. | Sep 04 04:13 |
stefan_ | allright. it indeed just doesn't seem like something a regular company would do | Sep 04 04:13 |
oiaohm | Google is not a regular company. | Sep 04 04:13 |
stefan_ | so it seems! :P | Sep 04 04:14 |
oiaohm | IBM does some of the same but it is kind management approved R&D | Sep 04 04:14 |
oiaohm | Its partly where the stack of junk comes from in the Foss world. | Sep 04 04:14 |
oiaohm | People are free to try stuff when they get bored with it they leave it to die. | Sep 04 04:15 |
oiaohm | Foss is very darwin like that. | Sep 04 04:15 |
oiaohm | Over time the strongest live the weakest disappear. | Sep 04 04:16 |
Chips | since the source is out there, someone can always pick it up and run with it years later | Sep 04 04:16 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: yep | Sep 04 04:16 |
oiaohm | not always Chips | Sep 04 04:16 |
oiaohm | Sometimes the source disappears because servers die and the like. | Sep 04 04:17 |
Chips | try that with closed source | Sep 04 04:17 |
oiaohm | There are projects disappearing from the foss world dayly. | Sep 04 04:17 |
stefan_ | Chips, that is indeed a very romantic idea/reality, but I doubt that those software packages will be picked up by the general (ubuntu) public | Sep 04 04:17 |
sebsebseb | oiaohm: :( | Sep 04 04:17 |
Chips | yes, but less than closed source | Sep 04 04:17 |
oiaohm | More Chips | Sep 04 04:17 |
oiaohm | mostly stuff people have never heard of. | Sep 04 04:18 |
oiaohm | Like the exfat proto driver for the Linux kernel. | Sep 04 04:18 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: Ubuntu, Ubuntu, Ubuntu, Ubuntu, opensource/freesoftware is so much more than just Ubuntu, same thing for Desktop Linux | Sep 04 04:18 |
oiaohm | Its almost completely vaporised. | Sep 04 04:18 |
oiaohm | Without a trace. | Sep 04 04:18 |
Chips | if it ended up in a distro, it most likely is still available | Sep 04 04:18 |
oiaohm | Not eveyrthing makes it that far Chips | Sep 04 04:18 |
stefan_ | seb: yes, but isn't the idea the same? | Sep 04 04:19 |
Chips | think Debian | Sep 04 04:19 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: well you keep on saying Ubuntu, rather than saying Linux or GNU/Linux which would be something | Sep 04 04:19 |
Chips | the better stuff usually does | Sep 04 04:19 |
oiaohm | Some of the general public do pick up projects. | Sep 04 04:19 |
oiaohm | stefan_: | Sep 04 04:19 |
oiaohm | ppa archive is an examples of it. | Sep 04 04:19 |
stefan_ | seb: would you disagree with me more if I had sais GNU/Linux ? ;-) | Sep 04 04:19 |
stefan_ | *sais=said | Sep 04 04:20 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: also not all GNU/Linux distros have exactly the same programs by default | Sep 04 04:20 |
stefan_ | i know | Sep 04 04:20 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: and not even when it comes to the common ones | Sep 04 04:20 |
oiaohm | The hardest part for the encommics people looking at Foss is understanding that Junk is part of the process. | Sep 04 04:21 |
oiaohm | Foss is very much like people in a junk yard building useful items. | Sep 04 04:21 |
at this point, I'd say you came here to disagree. it does not matter what anyone says. -> stefan_: seb: would you disagree with me more if I had sais GNU/Linux ? | Sep 04 04:21 | |
stefan_ | doesn't the junk keep people from exploring FOSS? | Sep 04 04:21 |
sebsebseb | twitter: who? | Sep 04 04:22 |
oiaohm | Developers trying to mean a dead line stefan_ | Sep 04 04:22 |
apt:/ in konqueror rocks. | Sep 04 04:22 | |
oiaohm | The junk is handy stefan_ | Sep 04 04:22 |
stefan is here to disagree | Sep 04 04:22 | |
stefan_ | no i'm not :) | Sep 04 04:22 |
wants to say free software sucks. | Sep 04 04:22 | |
oiaohm | Now distributions are ment to source the junk from the good for end users. | Sep 04 04:22 |
sebsebseb | twitter: he came here to talk about the article | Sep 04 04:23 |
oiaohm | Some of them have not being doing what you call great jobs stefan_ | Sep 04 04:23 |
stefan_ | oiaohm, i can agree with that. but do they succeed? | Sep 04 04:23 |
yes, but he's running on and on. | Sep 04 04:23 | |
stefan_ | ah, you already answered my question | Sep 04 04:23 |
it's getting dull. | Sep 04 04:23 | |
stefan_ | I'm a bit drunk, does that count? | Sep 04 04:23 |
sebsebseb | twitter: yeah this stuff has been going on for quite a whiel now | Sep 04 04:23 |
oiaohm | stefan_: does MS succeed at shipping a Working OS? | Sep 04 04:24 |
no, you might want to go sleep it off. -> stefan_: I'm a bit drunk, does that count? | Sep 04 04:24 | |
DaemonFC | my kernel is building :) | Sep 04 04:24 |
oiaohm | Its the same kind of question. | Sep 04 04:24 |
sebsebseb | twitter: heh yeah it's late/early where he is | Sep 04 04:24 |
stefan_ | I guess that for most users, it does | Sep 04 04:24 |
Chips | Oiaohm> not exactly sure what you mean by "Junk." GNU/Linux had programs that were not mature years ago. Some of those are still around, if that is what you mean by distro's sorting them out, i agree. Also, by not mature, mostly they worked, many from the command line. But most users need the gui | Sep 04 04:25 |
oiaohm | Some do better than others stefan_ nothing is perfect no matter how much testing some crap gets threw. | Sep 04 04:25 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: getting light there yet? | Sep 04 04:25 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : which kernel ? | Sep 04 04:25 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: 2.6.31-rc8-git2 | Sep 04 04:25 |
_Hicham_ | it is already in Fedora 12 | Sep 04 04:25 |
oiaohm | Chips: programs that don't run right any more but still have useful ideas in them or never run right. | Sep 04 04:25 |
DaemonFC | I stripped out a bunch of crap from Ubuntu's configuration that doesn't apply to my system | Sep 04 04:25 |
oiaohm | Chips: ie junk of the Foss world. | Sep 04 04:25 |
DaemonFC | and applied the preemption options | Sep 04 04:26 |
light or dark, drunks are better off sleeping | Sep 04 04:26 | |
stefan_ | aren't drunks better off twittering?:P | Sep 04 04:26 |
oiaohm | Basically if it was real device what you would kinda expect to find in a scrap yard that might be reworkable into to something useful Chips | Sep 04 04:26 |
no | Sep 04 04:26 | |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : how much time does it take you to build a kernel ? | Sep 04 04:27 |
DaemonFC | about an hour or so | Sep 04 04:27 |
_Hicham_ | just an hour ? | Sep 04 04:27 |
DaemonFC | it's been a while, but about that, yeah | Sep 04 04:27 |
Chips | stefan_> I would be more interested in hearing about your experience as a new user of Ubuntu, since it replaced windows 3 years ago, than continuing the conversation which is exausted about where the money come from for FOSS | Sep 04 04:27 |
_Hicham_ | You must have a fast machine | Sep 04 04:27 |
DaemonFC | 2.33 Ghz Core 2 Duo | Sep 04 04:27 |
DaemonFC | 4 gigs RAM | Sep 04 04:27 |
DaemonFC | I also prune a lot of drivers I don't need | Sep 04 04:28 |
oiaohm | My old system here that is from about 2004 can do a kernel build in 1 hour. | Sep 04 04:28 |
DaemonFC | if I build those it takes a lot longer | Sep 04 04:28 |
stefan_ | okay chips, ask a question then :-) | Sep 04 04:28 |
oiaohm | Ram is kind key _Hicham_ | Sep 04 04:28 |
oiaohm | 4 gb is about the min to have it build in a reasonable ammount of time. | Sep 04 04:29 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: according to the system monitor I'm only using about 690 megs of RAM right now | Sep 04 04:29 |
Chips | stefan_> not really a question, more about your experience with it, if you like to share. Which version are you using? | Sep 04 04:29 |
DaemonFC | 4 gigs is pretty overkill for Linux | Sep 04 04:29 |
DaemonFC | I originally put it in to try to get Vista to move a little faster :) | Sep 04 04:30 |
oiaohm | I don't know why DaemonFC | Sep 04 04:30 |
Chips | DaemonFC> 4gigs depends what u doing with it | Sep 04 04:30 |
oiaohm | It only used upto about 1 gb building. | Sep 04 04:30 |
oiaohm | But it is slower on less than 4 | Sep 04 04:30 |
stefan_ | Chips, I'm using 9.04, I started with 6.something and just upgraded as the new versions came along | Sep 04 04:30 |
DaemonFC | right now I have the kernel compiling, a few pidgin conversations open, xchat, Firefox, that's about it | Sep 04 04:30 |
oiaohm | Its something in the memory allocaiton going on DaemonFC | Sep 04 04:30 |
DaemonFC | actually it's using more RAM than I would otherwise need anyway cause I installed the preload daemon | Sep 04 04:31 |
oiaohm | One of those magical kernel gremilns. | Sep 04 04:31 |
DaemonFC | so that it would cache my most used programs like Superfetch | Sep 04 04:31 |
stefan_ | I like the 'directness' of it. I used to question myself when I was using Windows (did I click wrong or is it taking a long time...) | Sep 04 04:31 |
Chips | Stefan_> so you like it, what where you main reasons for using Ubuntu over Windows? Just curious. | Sep 04 04:31 |
DaemonFC | that's one thing I do like about Windows, is that it learns what you do with it and after a while it already has it cached so there's almost no delay in opening it | Sep 04 04:32 |
DaemonFC | but how effective the cache is depends on how much RAM you have | Sep 04 04:32 |
stefan_ | no blue screens, the system keeps functioning no matter how long the PC is working | Sep 04 04:32 |
DaemonFC | 4 gigs, Superfetch works well | Sep 04 04:32 |
Chips | DaemonFC>do you have KSysGuard (performance monitor) on your KDE distro? | Sep 04 04:32 |
DaemonFC | it's a better strategy than letting the RAM stay empty | Sep 04 04:33 |
stefan_ | I do not have much RAM, just 1GB | Sep 04 04:33 |
oiaohm | As long as you don't build something big like KDE that is fine stefan_ | Sep 04 04:33 |
Chips | stefan> agreed | Sep 04 04:33 |
DaemonFC | with about this kind of workload running, Vista would be using about 35% of my RAM about now | Sep 04 04:33 |
oiaohm | KDE is shocking on by by ram. | Sep 04 04:33 |
DaemonFC | Windows 7 would be using about 28-29% | Sep 04 04:33 |
oiaohm | to build. | Sep 04 04:34 |
DaemonFC | in GNOME on Linux right now it has about 18% filled | Sep 04 04:34 |
DaemonFC | that's with the compile running too | Sep 04 04:34 |
DaemonFC | so say 13-14% without the compile running | Sep 04 04:34 |
_Hicham_ | which gnome version is this ? | Sep 04 04:34 |
oiaohm | Linux runs quite well most cases with 512 megs of ram. | Sep 04 04:34 |
DaemonFC | so it's fair to say that a Linux system uses a few hundred megs less RAM than Vista | Sep 04 04:34 |
stefan_ | I was always arguing wuth windows over 'who has the control'. Windows gives you a mouse pointer when it still has a lot of work to do on loading the programs that start up when windows starts. Ubuntu only gives you control over mouse and keyboard when it is done starting up | Sep 04 04:34 |
DaemonFC | you'll notice the savings more if you have 2 gigs or less | Sep 04 04:35 |
stefan_ | Waiting fo a minute or so before the start menu appears is very annoying:P | Sep 04 04:35 |
Chips | the most ram I ever seen Linux use (measured by Ksysguard) was on someones HP dual core with 8gb, ripping a dsk. its ran circles around Vista with the same software running in Wine | Sep 04 04:35 |
DaemonFC | stefan_: I've never had that problem | Sep 04 04:35 |
oiaohm | 1 gb ram vista DaemonFC | Sep 04 04:36 |
DaemonFC | and by a few hundred megs less than Vista, I mean with a full desktop environment like KDE or GNOME | Sep 04 04:36 |
stefan_ | I guess I get more blue screens than my roommates do... | Sep 04 04:36 |
DaemonFC | you could save a couple hundred more megs with LXDE or XFCE | Sep 04 04:36 |
DaemonFC | potentially | Sep 04 04:36 |
Chips | IceWM | Sep 04 04:36 |
Chips | Fluxbox | Sep 04 04:36 |
DaemonFC | I've noticed that LXDE is far more efficient than XFCE | Sep 04 04:36 |
oiaohm | I have had vista shut it self down due to out of ram with 512 megs of ram. | Sep 04 04:36 |
stefan_ | Other than problems with windows, I really like some of the interface stuff that ubuntu has | Sep 04 04:36 |
stefan_ | very intuitive | Sep 04 04:36 |
DaemonFC | LXDE is really where you want to be if you have limited resources | Sep 04 04:37 |
DaemonFC | <1 gig | Sep 04 04:37 |
stefan_ | and, I was impressed by the Live session stuff | Sep 04 04:37 |
DaemonFC | over 1 gig, and you may want to consider GNOME or KDE | Sep 04 04:37 |
DaemonFC | I still refuse in total the argument that GNOME is useful with 512 megs | Sep 04 04:37 |
Chips | I was impressed with no malware compared to windows | Sep 04 04:38 |
DaemonFC | because I've used it like that | Sep 04 04:38 |
DaemonFC | it boots up, it works, but it's slow as molasses | Sep 04 04:38 |
sebsebseb | Chips: well there is some for Linux | Sep 04 04:38 |
Chips | Gnome does take more resources | Sep 04 04:38 |
stefan_ | yes Chips, I never encountered any viruses or ad/malware with linux | Sep 04 04:38 |
oiaohm | sebsebseb: insanely rare. | Sep 04 04:38 |
DaemonFC | I've considered doctoring up my laptop with a lightweight environment cause it only has a gig of RAM | Sep 04 04:38 |
sebsebseb | Chips: ,but will it work with modern distros is a question, and you would have to have rather bad security, and for someone to crack you and then to put some on or something to get some on there, or install yourself with you knowing what your doing | Sep 04 04:39 |
DaemonFC | I was considering giving it to my mother | Sep 04 04:39 |
sebsebseb | Chips: to get on there | Sep 04 04:39 |
Chips | sebsebseb>yes, but the morris worm, is not in the wild. There is an ODF trojan I think, so I don't download ODF files | Sep 04 04:39 |
DaemonFC | I'll probably lob Fedora with LXDE on it or something | Sep 04 04:39 |
DaemonFC | new kernel and X are essential since ATI abandoned that chipset that's in it | Sep 04 04:40 |
oiaohm | ODF trojan does not work unless you say yes to Macros. | Sep 04 04:40 |
DaemonFC | the X.org driver is the only thing that works at all now | Sep 04 04:40 |
oiaohm | And Openoffice is good that way it never does. | Sep 04 04:40 |
DaemonFC | the laptop was designed around XP, you can tell that | Sep 04 04:40 |
stefan_ | One thing I don't like about Ubuntu now, is every now and again there is some hassle with audio or video codecs | Sep 04 04:40 |
oiaohm | Chips: its also insanely rare only heard of 3 reports in the last 2 years | Sep 04 04:40 |
stefan_ | and some flash websites don't work very well. I know that flash is an ugly way of putting video and audio on websites, but it is there, so there has to be some solution for it | Sep 04 04:41 |
Chips | DaemonFC> most distro's let you install as many windows managers as you like, and you select the one you like at log in. This is useful, as some of the min WM's are not full functional, and you will have to use KDE or Gnome sometimes | Sep 04 04:41 |
sebsebseb | stefan_: well the Ubuntu help channal can help with stuff like that, probably | Sep 04 04:42 |
DaemonFC | well, you can install GNOME or KDE apps without GNOME or KDE | Sep 04 04:42 |
oiaohm | stefan_: some of the flash sites are adobe flash plugin problems. | Sep 04 04:42 |
DaemonFC | I generally use GNOME apps in LXDE because that spares me from having to load QT and KDE libs | Sep 04 04:42 |
oiaohm | Nice bit stefan_ you are not above having them even on windows. | Sep 04 04:42 |
DaemonFC | the whole point of minimizing resource use is blown when you have to load two GUI toolkits | Sep 04 04:42 |
stefan_ | oiaohm, I understand the words, but not the sentence... | Sep 04 04:43 |
Chips | oiaohm> Chips: its also insanely rare only heard of 3 reports in the last 2 years" AGREED, its so rare, I would think you would have to work at it. also, running as root would help if you really want malware. But even so, you probably could, not recommended | Sep 04 04:43 |
oiaohm | Flash issues happen even with windows. | Sep 04 04:43 |
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sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I use Gnome with KDE apps sometimes, and right now Ubuntu 9.10 development version yeah, with this KDE 4 version of Konversation, before that it would be the KDE 3 one in Ubuntu | Sep 04 04:43 |
stefan_ | Flash, basically, should just die. | Sep 04 04:43 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: yeah Konversation is my IRC client, and that's been quite a while now | Sep 04 04:44 |
oiaohm | Lot of sites broke after the recient secuirty update to flash that were playing up on Linux stefan_ | Sep 04 04:44 |
DaemonFC | well, I'm talking on systems where a 10-15 extra megs of RAM used could be the difference between SWAP thrashing | Sep 04 04:44 |
sebsebseb | I am thinking about eventaully going IRSSI, but that needs configuring to be a proper client hmm | Sep 04 04:44 |
DaemonFC | on a beefier system, I agree that sometimes it's convenient to mix applications | Sep 04 04:44 |
Chips | I have never trusted flash, so I run flashblock extension. | Sep 04 04:45 |
stefan_ | yes Chips, browsing is a lot more comfortable with flashblock :) | Sep 04 04:45 |
oiaohm | I don't trust a lot fo windows coders. | Sep 04 04:45 |
balzac | windows is going down! | Sep 04 04:46 |
oiaohm | Only group of coders I have ment that have a large number who think expoiting a security flaw in OS for application performance is a good thing. | Sep 04 04:46 |
balzac | oiaohm: might as well, since windows is one big black box | Sep 04 04:46 |
balzac | you're on your own as an application developer for windows | Sep 04 04:46 |
oiaohm | Linux world is different. | Sep 04 04:47 |
balzac | no kidding | Sep 04 04:47 |
oiaohm | MS then ends up not patching the secuirty flaw because it will break applications. | Sep 04 04:47 |
stefan_ | but still, when browsing the internet in windows, you can have a lot more tabs with flash at the same time, without noticing any performance issues, than when you have that same amount of tabs with flash when using linux. | Sep 04 04:47 |
balzac | sebsebseb: irssi is nice | Sep 04 04:47 |
balzac | what are you using? | Sep 04 04:47 |
DaemonFC | Wine 1.1.29 packages are available for Ubuntu | Sep 04 04:47 |
oiaohm | Firefox don't run that great under Linux stefan_ | Sep 04 04:47 |
stefan_ | oiaohm, do you have an alternatice? | Sep 04 04:48 |
oiaohm | Its one of my pet annoyances. | Sep 04 04:48 |
stefan_ | (with a v) | Sep 04 04:48 |
balzac | oiaohm: it's the best for web developers | Sep 04 04:48 |
alienjeff | stefan_: Just what the world needs: millions of computer users with more browser tabs with Flash | Sep 04 04:48 |
balzac | and it's also the one which will break flash's monopoly on web video | Sep 04 04:48 |
oiaohm | Not somethign I would suggest to you stefan_ | Sep 04 04:48 |
oiaohm | I rebuilt my firefox myself patching a few things. | Sep 04 04:48 |
stefan_ | lol, I am too dumb? :P | Sep 04 04:48 |
balzac | i was happy for flash to drive out windows media, quicktime, and real player | Sep 04 04:49 |
oiaohm | So removing a few of the problems stefan_ | Sep 04 04:49 |
DaemonFC | people that use Windows are not all bad, people that advocate it like Paul Thurrott are moral pygmies | Sep 04 04:49 |
balzac | but now it's time for firefox with ogg theora | Sep 04 04:49 |
stefan_ | balzac, that is just company bashing | Sep 04 04:49 |
balzac | what? | Sep 04 04:49 |
balzac | proprietary software company bashing | Sep 04 04:49 |
balzac | i'm not indiscriminant | Sep 04 04:49 |
stefan_ | yes | Sep 04 04:49 |
Chips | I probably shouldn't say this, but I really want MS to fix its Windows security the best possible before it goes away forever. As there will be those who will never move to better alternatives. | Sep 04 04:50 |
DaemonFC | Chips: ReactOS may go somewhere someday | Sep 04 04:50 |
DaemonFC | it's stated goals include driver compatibility with Windows | Sep 04 04:50 |
balzac | windows, the brand may not go away forever for a very long time, but they will lose their monopoly relatively soon | Sep 04 04:50 |
Chips | maybe | Sep 04 04:50 |
alienjeff | stefan_: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true? | Sep 04 04:50 |
oiaohm | Then we have the insanish LUK project. | Sep 04 04:50 |
_Hicham_ | no, ReactOS won't go anywhere | Sep 04 04:50 |
oiaohm | ReactOS may be the next freedos. | Sep 04 04:51 |
oiaohm | People said people would remain with dos as well. | Sep 04 04:51 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: I really hate people that bag on ReactOS for cloning Windows | Sep 04 04:51 |
oiaohm | They are gone. | Sep 04 04:51 |
alienjeff | How long has ReactOS been in dev? | Sep 04 04:51 |
stefan_ | this is what I don't get: virtually everyone knows that microsoft has major security issues, yet microsoft doesn't fix that, but does implement a "feature" that when you click 'search', you get to see an animated dog... | Sep 04 04:51 |
DaemonFC | Linux cloned AT&T UNIX which was the Windows of that time | Sep 04 04:51 |
oiaohm | Over 10 years alienjeff | Sep 04 04:52 |
oiaohm | Lets put it this way reversing windows is not simple. | Sep 04 04:52 |
stefan_ | alienjeff: i can't say, I like mud :P | Sep 04 04:52 |
alienjeff | 10 years and no RC | Sep 04 04:52 |
alienjeff | ...let alone stable. | Sep 04 04:52 |
alienjeff | That's rather sad. | Sep 04 04:52 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: ReactOS releases are getting more predictable | Sep 04 04:52 |
_Hicham_ | They can't go anywhere | Sep 04 04:53 |
oiaohm | Wine took over 8 to make its first kind of release alienjeff | Sep 04 04:53 |
balzac | don't forget about GNU Hurd | Sep 04 04:53 |
_Hicham_ | MS is just letting them waste some time | Sep 04 04:53 |
Chips | oiaohm> People said people would remain with dos as well." This is true, I resisted for a long time. But I do see users that I think will never switch, I could be wrong | Sep 04 04:53 |
DaemonFC | well, GNU started out in 1984 | Sep 04 04:53 |
_Hicham_ | when they will a real threat , they will sue them | Sep 04 04:53 |
alienjeff | It's no coincidence that "Hurd" rhymes with "turd." | Sep 04 04:53 |
DaemonFC | so you could say that it took them + Linux about 20 years to run on most off the shelf systems | Sep 04 04:53 |
_Hicham_ | GNU is different | Sep 04 04:53 |
balzac | yes it is, alienjeff | Sep 04 04:53 |
alienjeff | ;) | Sep 04 04:53 |
stefan_ | I don't care if reversing windows is nto simple. If one company has the financial resources rebuild it from the start, it is microsoft... | Sep 04 04:53 |
oiaohm | Hurd means something its a coincidence. | Sep 04 04:54 |
_Hicham_ | there is a hurd implementation by debian | Sep 04 04:54 |
balzac | RMS proposed some good ideas for improving the ancient design of the *nix style OS | Sep 04 04:54 |
oiaohm | Lucky coincidence really alienjeff | Sep 04 04:54 |
DaemonFC | new ReactOS releases are coming every 2-3 months now | Sep 04 04:54 |
DaemonFC | used to take over a year | Sep 04 04:54 |
DaemonFC | so I think it's getting better | Sep 04 04:54 |
_Hicham_ | RMS proposal wasn't successful | Sep 04 04:54 |
oiaohm | Hurd is an example of micro kernel designes night mares. | Sep 04 04:54 |
balzac | the problem is, the world is filled with dummies who don't respect the elders | Sep 04 04:54 |
oiaohm | A OS that cannot crash. | Sep 04 04:54 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did you use latest ReactOS ? | Sep 04 04:54 |
cubezzz-laptop | what is so bad about Hurd? | Sep 04 04:54 |
oiaohm | Anyone want that. | Sep 04 04:54 |
oiaohm | Because that is Hurd | Sep 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Last I used was 0.3.4 | Sep 04 04:55 |
oiaohm | It keeps on restarting its drivers. | Sep 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | they're on 0.3.10 now | Sep 04 04:55 |
oiaohm | Not crashed but no cpu time to do anything else cubezzz-laptop | Sep 04 04:55 |
balzac | Hurd sounds pretty wicked to me | Sep 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | that represents about a year and a half of work | Sep 04 04:55 |
_Hicham_ | wow | Sep 04 04:55 |
oiaohm | And due to not stoping very hard to work out what started the screw up. | Sep 04 04:55 |
_Hicham_ | a year and a half for nothing | Sep 04 04:55 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: And even if they never product a Windows clone, they do submit patches to Wine | Sep 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | so it's not like it was all for nothing | Sep 04 04:56 |
oiaohm | I am concerend about Reactos feature. | Sep 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | *produce | Sep 04 04:56 |
oiaohm | future | Sep 04 04:56 |
balzac | oiaohm: I think you're misrepresenting the Hurd | Sep 04 04:56 |
_Hicham_ | I think those people should focus on making good software for Linux | Sep 04 04:56 |
balzac | There's the initial stages of development, and then there's the blue-print for what it's supposed to be | Sep 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Why do you care what they work on? | Sep 04 04:56 |
oiaohm | balzac: what I represented is why it took so long to develop and is still a bugger at times balzac | Sep 04 04:56 |
DaemonFC | is it you doing the work? | Sep 04 04:56 |
balzac | a development snapshot shouldn't be used to judge the whole concept | Sep 04 04:56 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : I feel the work they are doing | Sep 04 04:57 |
Chips | DaemonFC> new ReactOS releases are coming every 2-3 months now" Problem I see with ReactOS is its based on Wine. Since its a standalone OS, it needs some kind of user account system, or if it ever becomes popular it could just end up being another malware target is my fear. btw, i usually download ReactOS and run it in Virtualbox | Sep 04 04:57 |
oiaohm | If hurd can be got working perfect it will be a great OS. | Sep 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | maybe they're just doing it for fun, maybe they do make a better Linux by working on Wine | Sep 04 04:57 |
oiaohm | I am worried about reactos future. | Sep 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | you know that Wine makes Linux migration more attractive | Sep 04 04:57 |
DaemonFC | since you don't have to abandon all your software | Sep 04 04:57 |
oiaohm | By the time it gets to market it might be pointless. | Sep 04 04:58 |
balzac | oiaohm: I agree. I'm not knowledgeable enough to say how it works, but you know the concept isn't to have something that's bad | Sep 04 04:58 |
balzac | it's to have something more modular and advanced | Sep 04 04:58 |
balzac | more useful | Sep 04 04:58 |
DaemonFC | balzac: They can deviate from the way Windows is implemented | Sep 04 04:58 |
_Hicham_ | playing catchup with Windows apps isn't sthg funny | Sep 04 04:58 |
oiaohm | balzac: concept good. making concept work and be debugable down right mungle from hell | Sep 04 04:58 |
DaemonFC | they can do some things better | Sep 04 04:58 |
balzac | multiple kernel instances, from which you can debug other running kernels | Sep 04 04:58 |
DaemonFC | besides, the basic Win32 API hasn't changed much in years | Sep 04 04:59 |
balzac | oiaohm: yeah, it's hard as hell, especially since the chip makers don't give a hoot about the Hurd | Sep 04 04:59 |
DaemonFC | by the time they get up to Windows 2000-level compatibility, they already will run more than 95% of the Windows programs out there | Sep 04 04:59 |
balzac | the chip makers dumped all their code into the linux project | Sep 04 04:59 |
balzac | it's ok | Sep 04 04:59 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: Risk is by the time Reactos lands MS will be pushing on with .net | Sep 04 04:59 |
balzac | linux is based on the tried and true unix design, which the industry was ready to put their investment into | Sep 04 04:59 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I doubt it | Sep 04 05:00 |
oiaohm | So reactos becomes another freedos. | Sep 04 05:00 |
balzac | hurd was more R&D, un-tested | Sep 04 05:00 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft has been trying to sell .Net since right after XP came out | Sep 04 05:00 |
DaemonFC | there's still almost no programs using it | Sep 04 05:00 |
DaemonFC | and ReactOS does have Mono | Sep 04 05:00 |
Chips | I too worry about the future of ReactOS, they did good on the effort to check all their code did not contain MS stuff. Cause I think that MS stategy is to go after the weak ones. Weak by way of funding, and ReactOS would be a way for M$ to indirectly go after Wine | Sep 04 05:00 |
balzac | It's because RMS is a true computer enthusiast who's always trying to take it to the highest level, he's not a corporate hack trying to ramp up a big business. | Sep 04 05:00 |
oiaohm | Also people are running more standard software these days as well. | Sep 04 05:01 |
DaemonFC | Chips: Microsoft can't sue you for reimplementing Win32 | Sep 04 05:01 |
oiaohm | Vendor locking is becoming less important. | Sep 04 05:01 |
DaemonFC | they could sue you if you ripped off their code somehow | Sep 04 05:01 |
balzac | DaemonFC: that won't stop them if they think they can ruin your day | Sep 04 05:01 |
DaemonFC | if they could sue for Win32, they would have taken out Wine years ago | Sep 04 05:01 |
oiaohm | No DaemonFC | Sep 04 05:02 |
oiaohm | MS need wine to keep USA regulators off back. | Sep 04 05:02 |
_Hicham_ | Wine is another thing | Sep 04 05:02 |
DaemonFC | the law, even in the US, is on Wine's side | Sep 04 05:02 |
_Hicham_ | yes | Sep 04 05:02 |
oiaohm | They use to pull it out as a show pony. | Sep 04 05:02 |
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oiaohm | Reactos on the other hand no such reason. | Sep 04 05:03 |
DaemonFC | I still think they're safe | Sep 04 05:03 |
_Hicham_ | no, they are not | Sep 04 05:03 |
Chips | DaemonFC> Chips: Microsoft can't sue you for reimplementing Win32" They could try, but you can't get blood out of a stone. But instead of me they could try to sue ReactOS, and shut them down. The fact that ReactOS spent all the time evaluating its code, would greatly help them in court I would think | Sep 04 05:03 |
_Hicham_ | they are playing with fire | Sep 04 05:03 |
oiaohm | My big issue is by the time Reactos gets to market the wold could change. | Sep 04 05:03 |
oiaohm | world could change. | Sep 04 05:04 |
oiaohm | Its already show the signs of it. | Sep 04 05:04 |
balzac | I wouldn't bother with reactos | Sep 04 05:04 |
balzac | I'm happy that it's a GPLed project, but I guess I don't see why I'd use it. | Sep 04 05:04 |
balzac | is it useable? | Sep 04 05:04 |
_Hicham_ | I removed Wine from my machine long time ago | Sep 04 05:04 |
oiaohm | Win32 comapdible is pointless of you don't have x86 hardware. | Sep 04 05:04 |
DaemonFC | balzac: More of a curiousity still at this point | Sep 04 05:05 |
balzac | can you run old windows apps on it? | Sep 04 05:05 |
DaemonFC | balzac: Like I said, their patches flow back into Wine | Sep 04 05:05 |
_Hicham_ | I installed ReactOS on a VM | Sep 04 05:05 |
oiaohm | This is the problem cpu market could segment so leaving reactos basically applicationless. | Sep 04 05:05 |
balzac | ok, that's useful | Sep 04 05:05 |
DaemonFC | so a lot of their work gets recycled into Wine | Sep 04 05:05 |
balzac | not to me, but useful to many | Sep 04 05:05 |
Chips | Net is going nowhere, its a flop already, its why MS wants us to have it, its an distraction. A way to infect Linux, with many things. Moonlight being one of them | Sep 04 05:05 |
_Hicham_ | ReactOS doesn't support Firefox-3.5 yet | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | There's a big company in India | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | they have 50 PHP developers and 25 .net developers | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | I wonder if that reflects relative marketshare | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | also, ASPX websites are lagging in technical features | Sep 04 05:06 |
_Hicham_ | php is having more market than .NET | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | PHP is reigning | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | yeah | Sep 04 05:06 |
balzac | I wonder by how much it is the leader | Sep 04 05:06 |
_Hicham_ | by so much | Sep 04 05:07 |
DaemonFC | every aspx website I've seen has been some lagging Chinese website that throws errors like crazy | Sep 04 05:07 |
_Hicham_ | it is so much ahead of asp | Sep 04 05:07 |
DaemonFC | Foxconn's support website is one of them | Sep 04 05:07 |
balzac | aspx is pewp | Sep 04 05:07 |
oiaohm | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/08/31/august_2009_web_server_survey.html << I think not too well balzac | Sep 04 05:07 |
_Hicham_ | some aspx site are IE only | Sep 04 05:07 |
_Hicham_ | which is very frustrating | Sep 04 05:07 |
_Hicham_ | I can't wait for the day when IE will die | Sep 04 05:08 |
_Hicham_ | die IE, die | Sep 04 05:08 |
oiaohm | I think it could be funny. | Sep 04 05:08 |
oiaohm | In netcraft active site measure ment next month google could be ahead of MS. | Sep 04 05:08 |
DaemonFC | IE is more dangerous by itself than Windows is | Sep 04 05:09 |
Chips | IE6 will live on as long as pirated XP | Sep 04 05:09 |
oiaohm | And by the start of next year MS could be less than qq.com over all. | Sep 04 05:09 |
balzac | oiaohm: Apache is king | Sep 04 05:09 |
DaemonFC | Chips: There's no WGA check for IE 7 or 8 | Sep 04 05:09 |
DaemonFC | even systems that are pirated can install it | Sep 04 05:10 |
balzac | not news, but what happened in 2005? | Sep 04 05:10 |
_Hicham_ | there is WGA for IE7 | Sep 04 05:10 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft is that desperate to try to spread it | Sep 04 05:10 |
DaemonFC | no | Sep 04 05:10 |
_Hicham_ | no WGA check for IE8 | Sep 04 05:10 |
oiaohm | MS released .net and marketed it hard balzac | Sep 04 05:10 |
DaemonFC | they removed the WGA check for IE 7 and there never was one in IE 8 | Sep 04 05:10 |
balzac | apache was doing a lot better, then by 2007, MS was feeling a bit optimistic | Sep 04 05:10 |
balzac | now MS is trending downward again and apache is going back up | Sep 04 05:10 |
balzac | oiaohm: ic | Sep 04 05:10 |
oiaohm | Not only going down. | Sep 04 05:10 |
balzac | then they ran out of money, i guess | Sep 04 05:11 |
oiaohm | Bleeding sites at an extream rate of nots. | Sep 04 05:11 |
Chips | your point DaemonFC? Do you really thing most pirates are going use wsus | Sep 04 05:11 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft saw that the WGA check in IE 7 was driving more people to Firefox | Sep 04 05:11 |
DaemonFC | so they got rid of it | Sep 04 05:11 |
oiaohm | Over 6 million a month balzac | Sep 04 05:11 |
oiaohm | appache just took a hit this month. | Sep 04 05:11 |
oiaohm | Most cases apaches numbers have been just going up. | Sep 04 05:11 |
oiaohm | Same with everyone elses. | Sep 04 05:11 |
oiaohm | MS is the only one with declining numbers in a big way. | Sep 04 05:12 |
balzac | who is getting any market share from apache? | Sep 04 05:12 |
_Hicham_ | Microsoft is sponsoring Apache | Sep 04 05:12 |
Chips | pirated xp will have to be reinstalled more and more often once support is gone | Sep 04 05:12 |
_Hicham_ | it is a gold sponsor in fact | Sep 04 05:12 |
balzac | Microsoft is trying to get a foot-hold with apache and linux | Sep 04 05:12 |
Chips | and default on those dsks install IE6 | Sep 04 05:12 |
oiaohm | That is the strange thing it appears to be going no where balzac | Sep 04 05:12 |
balzac | yeah, but MS is one of many, because Apache isn't going to let one single company be their sugar-daddy, especially not MS | Sep 04 05:12 |
_Hicham_ | Microsoft will give users the choice to install a browser | Sep 04 05:13 |
balzac | apache would get replaced by something else if they got too close to MS | Sep 04 05:13 |
oiaohm | Its very much like the companies who were running Windows are going out of business balzac | Sep 04 05:13 |
_Hicham_ | it was forced to in Europe | Sep 04 05:13 |
balzac | and tribal chiefs might say "hey, quit using our name" if the software became unpopular and non-free | Sep 04 05:13 |
_Hicham_ | I can't imagine Microsoft giving you a Windows CD with Firefox preinstalled | Sep 04 05:14 |
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balzac | I gotta figure something out. bbiab | Sep 04 05:14 |
oiaohm | Look at the active sites graphic balzac can you see something I cannot. Its just like the sites vaporised. | Sep 04 05:14 |
_Hicham_ | MS is losing server Market | Sep 04 05:15 |
_Hicham_ | thanks to their policy in the market | Sep 04 05:15 |
oiaohm | Its not just losing market. | Sep 04 05:15 |
oiaohm | Losing market suggest someone else is picking it up _Hicham_ | Sep 04 05:15 |
balzac | wow, tragic epilogue for microsoft | Sep 04 05:15 |
oiaohm | That is not happening. | Sep 04 05:15 |
balzac | they went off a cliff | Sep 04 05:15 |
_Hicham_ | apache is taking it up | Sep 04 05:15 |
balzac | google might be getting a bit | Sep 04 05:16 |
balzac | apache a little bit too | Sep 04 05:16 |
oiaohm | There is not enough there. | Sep 04 05:16 |
balzac | but microsoft bit the dirt | Sep 04 05:16 |
balzac | true | Sep 04 05:16 |
oiaohm | You add it up and it short. | Sep 04 05:16 |
oiaohm | Sites are vaporising. | Sep 04 05:16 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : maybe it is Conficker | Sep 04 05:16 |
oiaohm | Question is whos sites. | Sep 04 05:16 |
_Hicham_ | sites have been knocked down by Conficker, that is it | Sep 04 05:17 |
ATT and iPhone suck. http://venturebeat.com/2009/09/03/att-says-multimedia-messaging-for-iphones-and-other-phones-will-go-live-september-25th/ | Sep 04 05:17 | |
no tethering, no video phone. | Sep 04 05:17 | |
lame | Sep 04 05:17 | |
oiaohm | Conficker was months ago _Hicham_ | Sep 04 05:17 |
oiaohm | You would have expected signs before this. | Sep 04 05:18 |
oiaohm | Scary if its Microsoft themselves. | Sep 04 05:18 |
balzac | http://www.mediamughals.com/News/1/1/Article/3462/IE_posts_largest_loss_since_'08;_Firefox_gain_the_most.htm | Sep 04 05:19 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : explain your new theory | Sep 04 05:19 |
balzac | microsoft is crying in the browser market and in the server market | Sep 04 05:19 |
balzac | soon they'll be cryin' over lost OS market share | Sep 04 05:20 |
balzac | then cryin' over lost revenue | Sep 04 05:20 |
balzac | boo [giggity giggity giggity] hoo | Sep 04 05:20 |
oiaohm | Lot of people are shock that IE had 90 percent market is heading quickly back to 50 percent. | Sep 04 05:22 |
_Hicham_ | even if it is by default on Windows | Sep 04 05:22 |
_Hicham_ | which is weird | Sep 04 05:22 |
_Hicham_ | I see a lot of non techie people using Firefox | Sep 04 05:23 |
_Hicham_ | well, personally when someone gives me his laptop to fix, first thing i do is install firefox | Sep 04 05:23 |
oiaohm | That is what os going on. | Sep 04 05:23 |
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oiaohm | The techs are overriding the preinstall status. | Sep 04 05:24 |
_Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC : booted with the new kernel ? | Sep 04 05:24 |
DaemonFC | well, the kernel built but the 32-bit Nvidia modules don't like it | Sep 04 05:24 |
DaemonFC | I may try again with 2.6.30.5 | Sep 04 05:25 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : you should recompile the modules | Sep 04 05:25 |
oiaohm | I find 2.6.30.5 quite fine with Nvidia | Sep 04 05:25 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : do u have nvidia? | Sep 04 05:25 |
oiaohm | Yep | Sep 04 05:25 |
oiaohm | I will go ATI as soon as they have drivers I can depend on working by some means with decent performance. | Sep 04 05:26 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: http://pastebin.com/m1d979815 | Sep 04 05:26 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did u run ldconfig ? | Sep 04 05:27 |
DaemonFC | never had to before | Sep 04 05:27 |
oiaohm | Ok that is strange | Sep 04 05:27 |
DaemonFC | probably something wrong with the Nvidia package | Sep 04 05:27 |
oiaohm | What are you running DaemonFC | Sep 04 05:27 |
balzac | wait until FF4 comes out in 2010 with the separate processes for each tab | Sep 04 05:27 |
oiaohm | Please don't be debian sid. | Sep 04 05:28 |
balzac | and the video performance smooths out | Sep 04 05:28 |
oiaohm | because sid moved the 32 bit binary directory to standard. | Sep 04 05:28 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Linux ryan-desktop 2.6.31-rc8-git2-ryan1 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Sep 3 23:44:42 EDT 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux | Sep 04 05:28 |
balzac | flash and MS will both be cryin | Sep 04 05:28 |
oiaohm | You have a 32 bit driver install problem DaemonFC | Sep 04 05:28 |
balzac | and chrome won't have a big selling point firefox doesn't also have | Sep 04 05:28 |
oiaohm | With a 64 bit kernel DaemonFC | Sep 04 05:28 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it's never happened | Sep 04 05:28 |
DaemonFC | probably something about the kernel has changed and the Nvidia installer doesn't support it | Sep 04 05:29 |
balzac | adobe is pretty happy to have youtube relying on their technology, but adobe better adapt for the time when flash is not the standard | Sep 04 05:29 |
oiaohm | Ok you do have 32 bit lib support installed ? | Sep 04 05:29 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : you can create symlinks | Sep 04 05:29 |
_Hicham_ | that is the laziest solution | Sep 04 05:29 |
balzac | adobe should make nice with firefox and make GPL-licensed web dev tools for firefox | Sep 04 05:29 |
oiaohm | ie /emul/ia32-linux exists ? | Sep 04 05:29 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: | Sep 04 05:29 |
balzac | SVG animation and video to OGG Theora | Sep 04 05:29 |
oiaohm | I have done that to my self before. | Sep 04 05:29 |
balzac | Adobe should start giving code to Gimp too | Sep 04 05:29 |
oiaohm | Nvidia complaining and the directory did not exist. | Sep 04 05:30 |
DaemonFC | it exists | Sep 04 05:30 |
oiaohm | usr/lib in there existsz | Sep 04 05:30 |
_Hicham_ | and libGL exists ? | Sep 04 05:30 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 04 05:30 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 04 05:30 |
_Hicham_ | in /emul/ia32-linux/usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 ? | Sep 04 05:31 |
oiaohm | ls -l libGL.so.1 | Sep 04 05:31 |
DaemonFC | it exists | Sep 04 05:31 |
oiaohm | Ok what is that point to | Sep 04 05:31 |
DaemonFC | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 2009-09-04 00:26 libGL.so.1 -> libGL.so.185.18.36 | Sep 04 05:32 |
oiaohm | Possible the wrong version. | Sep 04 05:32 |
oiaohm | What version driver were you installing. | Sep 04 05:32 |
DaemonFC | 185.18.36 | Sep 04 05:32 |
oiaohm | So its there | Sep 04 05:33 |
DaemonFC | well, tell that to the Nvidia installer | Sep 04 05:33 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 04 05:33 |
oiaohm | ldconfig | Sep 04 05:33 |
oiaohm | and pray. | Sep 04 05:33 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : run ldconfig as root | Sep 04 05:33 |
DaemonFC | done | Sep 04 05:33 |
***twitter reads about mach http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/microkernel/mach.html | Sep 04 05:33 | |
DaemonFC | now what? | Sep 04 05:34 |
_Hicham_ | re run the installer | Sep 04 05:34 |
oiaohm | ls -l libGL.so.185.18.36 | Sep 04 05:34 |
oiaohm | also exist | Sep 04 05:34 |
oiaohm | don't be a link pointing to no where. | Sep 04 05:34 |
http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Technical/MeetMach.html | Sep 04 05:34 | |
DaemonFC | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 618176 2009-09-04 00:26 libGL.so.185.18.36 | Sep 04 05:34 |
DaemonFC | I'll be back, see if the installer works now | Sep 04 05:35 |
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oiaohm | Interesting I don't ahve libGL.so.1 | Sep 04 05:36 |
oiaohm | and I have the same version driver and it works. | Sep 04 05:36 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : what distro are u on ? | Sep 04 05:36 |
oiaohm | debian testing/sid/stable | Sep 04 05:36 |
oiaohm | Yes mutent beast. | Sep 04 05:37 |
_Hicham_ | you don't have libGL at all ? | Sep 04 05:37 |
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DaemonFC | still nothing | Sep 04 05:38 |
DaemonFC | same error | Sep 04 05:38 |
_Hicham_ | I don't know, but you seem to have omitted sthg important in the kernel config | Sep 04 05:40 |
_Hicham_ | I don't like compiling kernels, but you should know what you are disabling in the config file | Sep 04 05:40 |
DaemonFC | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=535547 | Sep 04 05:41 |
DaemonFC | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7805838 | Sep 04 05:42 |
DaemonFC | http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137469 | Sep 04 05:42 |
DaemonFC | I'm going to unpack the installer and see what I can see | Sep 04 05:43 |
DaemonFC | hmmm, I have an idea | Sep 04 05:48 |
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DaemonFC | great success | Sep 04 05:52 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 04 05:52 |
_Hicham_ | so u are having compiz now ? | Sep 04 05:53 |
DaemonFC | well, now that I have a less buggy kernel, I may as well enable timer scheduling for Pulseaudio | Sep 04 05:53 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: The 64-bit driver was working fine | Sep 04 05:54 |
DaemonFC | the 32-bit compatibility path has changed | Sep 04 05:54 |
_Hicham_ | it is set to /usr/lib32 | Sep 04 05:54 |
_Hicham_ | that is what i know | Sep 04 05:54 |
_Hicham_ | the emul path seemed strange to me | Sep 04 05:54 |
DaemonFC | I uninstalled it then used | Sep 04 05:55 |
DaemonFC | ./NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-185.18.36-pkg2.run --compat32-prefix=/usr --compat32-libdir=lib32 --compat32-chroot= | Sep 04 05:55 |
nice. KDE 4.2 has a check box for "read only mode." uncheck it and you can edit documents opened with their kpart. This makes Konqueror a universal editor as well as a universal browser. | Sep 04 05:55 | |
DaemonFC | the driver installer will probably be fixed eventually and that won't be necessary | Sep 04 05:55 |
_Hicham_ | great | Sep 04 05:56 |
_Hicham_ | I was trying to install Fedora 12 today, but with no luck | Sep 04 05:56 |
_Hicham_ | the installer was crashing | Sep 04 05:56 |
DaemonFC | brb | Sep 04 05:56 |
_Hicham_ | ok | Sep 04 05:56 |
DaemonFC | have to log out and in for the new pulseaudio settings to kick in | Sep 04 05:57 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 04 05:57 |
DaemonFC | GlitchFree :D | Sep 04 05:57 |
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DaemonFC | much better | Sep 04 05:58 |
DaemonFC | I turned the tickless kernel option off | Sep 04 05:59 |
_Hicham_ | pulseaudio is already glitch free for me | Sep 04 05:59 |
DaemonFC | tickless seems to cause problems | Sep 04 05:59 |
DaemonFC | changed the timer frequency to 1000hz | Sep 04 06:00 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 04 06:00 |
_Hicham_ | I used to have glitches on Fedora 10 | Sep 04 06:00 |
DaemonFC | incredibly bad idea if you're on a laptop, but it'll give your kernel a nice swift kick in the ass as far as performance goes, on a desktop it's reasonable | Sep 04 06:00 |
_Hicham_ | but on Fedora 11, everything is perfect | Sep 04 06:01 |
DaemonFC | I also used the full preemption options, for the RCU as well | Sep 04 06:01 |
DaemonFC | and optimized for Core 2 B-) | Sep 04 06:01 |
_Hicham_ | was there any performace improvement ? | Sep 04 06:02 |
DaemonFC | noticeable improvement | Sep 04 06:02 |
DaemonFC | much more responsive | Sep 04 06:03 |
_Hicham_ | what kernel were u using before ? | Sep 04 06:03 |
DaemonFC | the 2.6.28-based kernel from Jaunty | Sep 04 06:03 |
_Hicham_ | i see | Sep 04 06:04 |
_Hicham_ | that is why you are feeling the difference | Sep 04 06:05 |
_Hicham_ | kernel 2.6.31 is already very fast | Sep 04 06:05 |
_Hicham_ | compared to old 2.6.28 | Sep 04 06:05 |
_Hicham_ | how does it compare with the stock kernel from karmic ? | Sep 04 06:05 |
DaemonFC | I've used Karmic, it wasn't all that fast | Sep 04 06:09 |
DaemonFC | and apps tend to crash randomly | Sep 04 06:09 |
DaemonFC | it's totally unstable | Sep 04 06:09 |
DaemonFC | I'm pretty happy with the way this is turning out | Sep 04 06:10 |
DaemonFC | my Linux Mint setup that is | Sep 04 06:10 |
DaemonFC | http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7190/screenshotzh.png | Sep 04 06:10 |
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_Hicham_ | is this kernel stable ? | Sep 04 06:14 |
seller_liar | Thanks roy for the award | Sep 04 06:14 |
seller_liar | But I'm not a good specialist about these things..... | Sep 04 06:15 |
seller_liar | JoseX and twitter are great guys | Sep 04 06:15 |
_Hicham_ | http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6764/screenshotzt.png | Sep 04 06:15 |
_Hicham_ | a screenshot à la DaemonFC | Sep 04 06:15 |
DaemonFC | http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6484/screenshothu.png | Sep 04 06:17 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 04 06:17 |
DaemonFC | http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2377/screenshotyo.png | Sep 04 06:19 |
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_Hicham_ | for how long will you stay on Mint ? | Sep 04 06:19 |
DaemonFC | probably staying here | Sep 04 06:19 |
_Hicham_ | i don't think that you will stay more than a week | Sep 04 06:20 |
_Hicham_ | and go back to Windows for gaming | Sep 04 06:20 |
_Hicham_ | by the way I just penumbra game for linux | Sep 04 06:20 |
_Hicham_ | it is just great | Sep 04 06:21 |
_Hicham_ | you should try it | Sep 04 06:21 |
_Hicham_ | great framerate, great story, great game engine, never thought that i can play such games on Linux | Sep 04 06:22 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : still here ? | Sep 04 06:24 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: yes | Sep 04 06:24 |
DaemonFC | setting up Opera | Sep 04 06:24 |
_Hicham_ | is opera using qt4 ? | Sep 04 06:25 |
DaemonFC | the beta and RC was | Sep 04 06:25 |
DaemonFC | the final version isn't | Sep 04 06:25 |
_Hicham_ | what is it using ? | Sep 04 06:26 |
_Hicham_ | qt3? | Sep 04 06:26 |
DaemonFC | yes | Sep 04 06:26 |
_Hicham_ | it is bad | Sep 04 06:26 |
_Hicham_ | qt4 has really great UI | Sep 04 06:26 |
DaemonFC | the themes are the same | Sep 04 06:26 |
DaemonFC | I may get a desktop team build jsut to have qt 4 back though | Sep 04 06:27 |
_Hicham_ | Opera always lacked themes | Sep 04 06:27 |
DaemonFC | yeah, I think I will actually | Sep 04 06:28 |
_Hicham_ | do u think that it will go open source someday ? | Sep 04 06:28 |
DaemonFC | doubt it | Sep 04 06:28 |
DaemonFC | their business model depends on not releasing the source | Sep 04 06:29 |
DaemonFC | but at the same time, their engine is the most standards compliant | Sep 04 06:29 |
DaemonFC | so it's not like staying closed source is an evil plot to rule the world | Sep 04 06:29 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7650/screenshotfk.png | Sep 04 06:32 |
DaemonFC | there's what it looks like with qt 4 | Sep 04 06:32 |
DaemonFC | the interface is also faster | Sep 04 06:32 |
DaemonFC | http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/1587/screenshotfj.png | Sep 04 06:34 |
DaemonFC | themes apply more cleanly | Sep 04 06:35 |
DaemonFC | Opera Unite is a nice feature | Sep 04 06:36 |
DaemonFC | didn't make it into 10, but it's in the 10.1 weekly builds | Sep 04 06:36 |
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__c | morning, all. Anyone awake? | Sep 04 06:49 |
__c | I suppose it's polite to introduce myself. I originally ran across mono-nono.com, and was introduced to this whole "debate" (or, rather, this whole continual-sniping-at-each-other) between pro-Mono and anti-Mono people. | Sep 04 06:51 |
__c | From there, I discovered "boycottnovell", and a couple of attendant blogs. Isn't the Interweb full of surprises. | Sep 04 06:52 |
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__c | Now, this whole "Boycott Novell" bunch seems to have gotten a bit of a reputation as being paranoid crazy-people. I'd rather not take the word of others for it, so I've sort-of come to sit in and engage with y'all for a bit. Perhaps the paranoid-crazy-zealot angle is overplayed. | Sep 04 06:57 |
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__c | After all, it's almost de jure to vilify the Other Side on the internet. | Sep 04 07:00 |
__c | So, those are my biases, and my experiences. Happy to make your collective acquaintance. | Sep 04 07:01 |
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schestowitz | Hey, __c | Sep 04 08:00 |
schestowitz | Seems most folks are asleep, I've just awoken | Sep 04 08:01 |
schestowitz | Well, characterisations against us are intended to squash messages, no matter the accuracy of predictions and observations, which are based on presented evidence (External links) | Sep 04 08:02 |
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__c | Seems mostly an opinion war to me, to tell you the truth. | Sep 04 08:05 |
__c | But, let me sit in on a bit of the discussion, and see the quality there ;). It is correctly said that the observer sees more of the game. | Sep 04 08:07 |
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schestowitz | The reader may not see all that's know, so internal links are given in abundance too. Lacking compelling proof, there's room for comments (For more pointers) | Sep 04 08:08 |
__c | schestowitz: ? I don't understand your sentences. | Sep 04 08:16 |
schestowitz | __c: if you stick around your opinion may change over time. Some people here have been watching the events as they unfolded for years and they discuss observations openly. | Sep 04 08:16 |
schestowitz | __c: /s/know/known/ | Sep 04 08:16 |
__c | "Locknig compelling proof, there's room for comments (For more pointers)"? | Sep 04 08:16 |
__c | s/Locknig/Lacking/ | Sep 04 08:17 |
schestowitz | Sometimes people might think, "this can't be true" | Sep 04 08:17 |
schestowitz | About say... pressure on OEMs | Sep 04 08:17 |
schestowitz | A question can be raised | Sep 04 08:17 |
schestowitz | And then more articles pointed out to support it | Sep 04 08:17 |
schestowitz | pointer as in press release, article, quote, book reference, explanation | Sep 04 08:17 |
__c | Fair enough. It's not the facts that are in question, as I see it. It's the interpretation of those facts, which makes the whole thing into an opinion-fest. | Sep 04 08:18 |
__c | Let's take pressure on OEMs, though I'm unfamiliar with the incident in question. Now, is such pressure not something that companies exert as a matter of course, due to market dominance or sales strategy or whatever? | Sep 04 08:19 |
__c | If so, why attribute malicious motives to the company exerting the pressure? It's just business. | Sep 04 08:20 |
schestowitz | No, wait.. | Sep 04 08:20 |
schestowitz | "We should whack them [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings], we should make sure they understand our value." --Paul Flessner, Microsoft | Sep 04 08:21 |
schestowitz | DOes that sounds like business as usual? | Sep 04 08:21 |
schestowitz | How about this? "I’m thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with anti-Linux. ... they should do a delicate dance" --Joachim Kempin, Microsoft OEM Chief | Sep 04 08:21 |
__c | schestowitz: apparently, you don't sit in on many business meetings. Yes, that is how business-people think, and how they speak. | Sep 04 08:22 |
schestowitz | Blackmail? | Sep 04 08:22 |
schestowitz | I doubt most people think along those lines | Sep 04 08:22 |
__c | Also, large companies aren't monolithic. There's an OEM division, an Apps division, an OS division, a Dev division, R&D ... | Sep 04 08:23 |
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schestowitz | Sure. | Sep 04 08:23 |
__c | Each of these will have their own budget, their own priorities, which may conflict with another division's. I'm not surprised by Joachim's remark, and I fail to see what it has to do with anything. | Sep 04 08:23 |
schestowitz | It's no exemption from ethics though.. and law | Sep 04 08:23 |
schestowitz | __c: Microsoft has a monopoly | Sep 04 08:24 |
schestowitz | It cannot blackmail to maintain a monopoly | Sep 04 08:24 |
schestowitz | The US DOJ agrees | Sep 04 08:24 |
schestowitz | It decided to break Microsoft apart | Sep 04 08:24 |
schestowitz | Never mind if Microsoft resorted to political activism to reverse/prevent this | Sep 04 08:25 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft | Sep 04 08:25 |
__c | OK. Then let the DoJ handle it, and decide on it. | Sep 04 08:25 |
schestowitz | http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/ms_index.htm | Sep 04 08:25 |
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__c | I don't see why it's a matter of concern for Mono, or Linux, or even the rest of the world (which doesn't have to give two hoots about the DoJ) | Sep 04 08:26 |
schestowitz | DoJ material can be made more accessible | Sep 04 08:26 |
__c | schestowitz: but why bother? | Sep 04 08:26 |
schestowitz | It can also be related to current (As in present) events | Sep 04 08:26 |
schestowitz | __c: why bother to end slavery? | Sep 04 08:27 |
*__c does a double-take | Sep 04 08:27 | |
schestowitz | __c: why bother to treat women equally? | Sep 04 08:27 |
__c | Sorry, "slavery"? | Sep 04 08:27 |
schestowitz | Hey, why bother with democracy? :-) | Sep 04 08:27 |
schestowitz | __c: analogies | Sep 04 08:27 |
__c | Come on, this isn't a rights issue. | Sep 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | You're saying, basically, that all intervention should be avoided. | Sep 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | Let the "smart people" deicde | Sep 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | Let the OEMs and their conspirators demand that we buy WIndows with each PC... | Sep 04 08:28 |
__c | No, I'm saying that if the DoJ wants to prosecute, let them. Fine. If they don't, fine. | Sep 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | Is it wrong of me to want to use my OS of choice? | Sep 04 08:28 |
schestowitz | I don't understand you | Sep 04 08:29 |
schestowitz | Who do you think DOS represented | Sep 04 08:29 |
schestowitz | (hint; the name of the trial implies it) | Sep 04 08:29 |
schestowitz | *DOJ | Sep 04 08:29 |
__c | I'm saying that you should let market forces decide it. | Sep 04 08:29 |
__c | I can demand to buy a car without a steering wheel, that doesn't mean that anyone will sell me one. | Sep 04 08:30 |
__c | I can demand to buy a shocking-pink car, that doesn't mean the manufacturer will spraypaint it for me. | Sep 04 08:30 |
schestowitz | "market forces"? | Sep 04 08:30 |
schestowitz | Are you the "free market" types? | Sep 04 08:30 |
__c | schestowitz: I support limited intervention, but this goes way beyond limited. | Sep 04 08:31 |
schestowitz | Thanks for another straw man with car analogy | Sep 04 08:31 |
schestowitz | I'm not asking for a wheel | Sep 04 08:31 |
schestowitz | WIndows on PCs = no ability to install OS of choice, which would be simple; one single choice for all PCs | Sep 04 08:31 |
schestowitz | Your analogy would work if company KORB INDUSTRIES made ALL the wheels for ALL cars in the world | Sep 04 08:32 |
cubezzz | imagine if every grocery store in the world had coke, but you wanted a pepsi :) | Sep 04 08:32 |
schestowitz | ANd if one could never ever install an OS | Sep 04 08:32 |
__c | schestowitz: I've been installing various Unices on PCs for the past decade or more. You want to see hardware control, you should look at a Mac. | Sep 04 08:32 |
schestowitz | People can install PCLOS, they can't install wheels | Sep 04 08:32 |
schestowitz | I'm noit interested in Macs | Sep 04 08:33 |
schestowitz | They are a small minority | Sep 04 08:33 |
schestowitz | Had Macs been actually used by many people, that too would become an idssue | Sep 04 08:33 |
__c | On PCs, there's plenty of choice. I come from a Slackware heritage myself. | Sep 04 08:33 |
schestowitz | They are a minuscule minority at a global scale | Sep 04 08:33 |
cubezzz | There used to be choices, if you're old enough to remember | Sep 04 08:34 |
schestowitz | Macs are memorablia cars some rich people would pat premium for even if the cars are semi-operational | Sep 04 08:34 |
cubezzz | no longer | Sep 04 08:34 |
cubezzz | you can't go to the store and get a computer with slack | Sep 04 08:34 |
schestowitz | Not even for a reasonable price | Sep 04 08:35 |
schestowitz | The Russian Antimonopoly Agency is invetigating too | Sep 04 08:35 |
schestowitz | It's querying OEMs and Microsoft | Sep 04 08:35 |
schestowitz | For tying that's illegal | Sep 04 08:35 |
__c | schestowitz: I take your point that Windows is installed by default on most PCs. Fair enough. You should take my point that this does not preclude choice. I can still install whatever I want on my PC. | Sep 04 08:35 |
cubezzz | not the point at all | Sep 04 08:35 |
cubezzz | you're still payin the windows tax | Sep 04 08:36 |
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__c | cubezzz: and if you want to, you can go through the hassle of getting it refunded. Or you can build by component. Or you can buy from a mom-and-pop store that will custom-build for you. Or you can get one with a free OS on it. Or ... | Sep 04 08:37 |
cubezzz | right, you have to go through the hassle.. and it's BS | Sep 04 08:37 |
__c | cubezzz: and what you call the "Windows tax" was, until quite recently, unavoidable from a supplier point of view. | Sep 04 08:37 |
schestowitz | That's incorrect | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | Factually incorrect | Sep 04 08:38 |
__c | It is? | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | Windows tax cannot even be refunded in most cases | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | Yes, it is | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | Your claims do not agree with simle observations | Sep 04 08:38 |
cubezzz | that's garbage anyway, I don't want to pay for windows period | Sep 04 08:38 |
__c | schestowitz: It's in their legal docs. Whether you can do it or not is a matter of country, OEM agreements, etc. | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | Nope | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | Tell Acer about it | Sep 04 08:38 |
schestowitz | And refund is not choice | Sep 04 08:39 |
schestowitz | If I offer my clients the ability to return to store and replace Cola withn Pepsi, that's not choice | Sep 04 08:39 |
schestowitz | That's force-feeding | Sep 04 08:39 |
cubezzz | well, if you beaked off about it for months, probably yes, you _could_ get a refund, but who wants to go through that? | Sep 04 08:39 |
__c | A quick Google-search for "windows refund" seems to throw up plenty of links that tell you how to go about it. It seems legal. | Sep 04 08:39 |
schestowitz | People need to have Pepsi on the shelf | Sep 04 08:39 |
PetoKraus | __c, the question is, how many people succeed | Sep 04 08:39 |
schestowitz | Esp. when one company bullies to get 90% market share strangelehold | Sep 04 08:39 |
cubezzz | It's all about choices we don't have | Sep 04 08:39 |
PetoKraus | retailers are cunts | Sep 04 08:39 |
__c | schestowitz, cubezzz: OK, OK. So go and build it by component, then. | Sep 04 08:40 |
PetoKraus | i know, i work for one | Sep 04 08:40 |
__c | Then you won't pay anything to Microsoft. | Sep 04 08:40 |
cubezzz | __c, I've been doing that for 20 years | Sep 04 08:40 |
__c | cubezzz: seems to me that you've had plenty of choice, then. | Sep 04 08:40 |
PetoKraus | desktops make sense only by component anyway, IMHO | Sep 04 08:40 |
cubezzz | and I still want to be able to go to the store and see more choices | Sep 04 08:40 |
PetoKraus | for home use, that is | Sep 04 08:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Teddys picnic on lounge floor with Sophie (5). I said I wanted tea. Sophie said 'We have beer if you want?'. Bit early I think. | Sep 04 08:42 | |
cubezzz | I go to whatever store, pick _any_ store, and I don't see my OS of choice, I don't see blank, I see windows tax PCs only | Sep 04 08:42 |
schestowitz | ppeals Court Upholds Online Gambling Ban http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/onlinegamblingban/ | Sep 04 08:42 |
schestowitz | <__c> schestowitz, cubezzz: OK, OK. So go and build it by component, then. | Sep 04 08:42 |
__c | Let me try to portray it from a supplier PoV. You are in the hardware business, you assemble machines. The less you have to spend on OS, the better -- and OS includes support calls. Standardising on something other than Windows hasn't been an option until quite recently. So, from their PoV, Windows makes a lot of sense. This is called market forces. | Sep 04 08:42 |
schestowitz | <__c> schestowitz, cubezzz: OK, OK. So go and build it by component, then. | Sep 04 08:42 |
schestowitz | What, a car? | Sep 04 08:42 |
__c | schestowitz: no, a PC ;). | Sep 04 08:42 |
schestowitz | Ha | Sep 04 08:42 |
schestowitz | Good luck building your own laptop, too | Sep 04 08:43 |
schestowitz | That's why Russian investigates | Sep 04 08:43 |
__c | schestowitz: again, market forces. You can get a Linux eeePC, though, I think. | Sep 04 08:43 |
cubezzz | 20 years ago.... totally different story to today | Sep 04 08:43 |
schestowitz | Forces as in forcing OEMs | Sep 04 08:44 |
schestowitz | This was preoven | Sep 04 08:44 |
cubezzz | there was Amiga, Tandy, a ton of choices | Sep 04 08:44 |
schestowitz | Microsoft pressured and bribed OEMs to remove choice | Sep 04 08:44 |
schestowitz | There are antimonopooly rules, you know? | Sep 04 08:44 |
schestowitz | Ever heard of standard oil:? | Sep 04 08:44 |
cubezzz | anyway... two words for you __c, Standard Oil | Sep 04 08:44 |
schestowitz | Beat me | Sep 04 08:44 |
schestowitz | Almost | Sep 04 08:44 |
__c | schestowitz: OK, fine, let the DoJ sort it out, then. I don't see why I should care. | Sep 04 08:44 |
cubezzz | 19th century monopoly, it was broken up | Sep 04 08:44 |
cubezzz | pffffft :) | Sep 04 08:45 |
cubezzz | anyways :) | Sep 04 08:45 |
schestowitz | __c: good for you. Wait for DOJ | Sep 04 08:45 |
schestowitz | Let others do the work | Sep 04 08:45 |
__c | If they've crossed the legal line, let them pay, and more power to the DoJ. | Sep 04 08:45 |
schestowitz | Just don't ridicule them for it | Sep 04 08:45 |
cubezzz | things could be worse I guess | Sep 04 08:45 |
schestowitz | Like Torvalds' ignorance re: rights | Sep 04 08:45 |
__c | schestowitz: "Let others do the work" -- first, I'm not ridiculing them. I support the DoJ in such a matter. And secondly, what do you think I could do? Start an Online Petition? I'm not even an American! | Sep 04 08:46 |
schestowitz | How to build cheap cloud storage < http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/ > | Sep 04 08:46 |
cubezzz | right, I can build a white box pc, but a PDA, or a laptop, much more difficult | Sep 04 08:46 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: few people can build and assemble a PC | Sep 04 08:46 |
cubezzz | I'm not American, neither is schestowitz :) | Sep 04 08:46 |
schestowitz | Microsoft relies on inconvenience | Sep 04 08:46 |
__c | cubezzz: you can demand, but the supplier doesn't have to listen to you. It's a free market :). | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | IT's like the stuff they do in academic place | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | Compus-wide licences | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | Which means they charge everyone on campus no matter what s/w they use | Sep 04 08:47 |
cubezzz | oh I can get it | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | One of the bigger scams out there | Sep 04 08:47 |
cubezzz | I have aleady got it | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | Ruled sort of illegal in Norway | Sep 04 08:47 |
__c | schestowitz: I like campus-wide licensing, when I was a student I took advantage of that ... | Sep 04 08:47 |
cubezzz | I got a Linux based PDA right here | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | Linpro won it | Sep 04 08:47 |
cubezzz | didn't buy it in a store though | Sep 04 08:47 |
schestowitz | __c: that sounds moronic | Sep 04 08:48 |
schestowitz | You're not addressing the subject | Sep 04 08:48 |
__c | schestowitz: ... and what is the subject? | Sep 04 08:48 |
schestowitz | It's not about you feeling OK with paying | Sep 04 08:48 |
schestowitz | I's about those who pay for something they don't use | Sep 04 08:48 |
schestowitz | So again, straw man | Sep 04 08:48 |
cubezzz | ok, another example, a Phd student I know had to use Word 97, not just Word, it had to be Word 97! | Sep 04 08:49 |
schestowitz | bbl | Sep 04 08:49 |
cubezzz | otherwise he couldn't take the course | Sep 04 08:49 |
cubezzz | total BS right? | Sep 04 08:49 |
__c | schestowitz: Let me see. Ends up cheaper for the university to support, and cheaper for the student (who doesn't have to pay for it), and the loser is ... umm ... hold on, tip of my tongue ... who? | Sep 04 08:49 |
__c | cubezzz: that's university bureaucratese. It's not Microsoft forcing them. | Sep 04 08:50 |
cubezzz | Academia used to use *nix, don't know if they still do now | Sep 04 08:50 |
__c | I did my papers in LaTeX, at postgraduate level, and the university didn't mind at all. For online submission, it makes sense to converge on a common format. | Sep 04 08:51 |
cubezzz | well this guy was a History student | Sep 04 08:54 |
cubezzz | I sort of doubt History students use Latex, I could be wrong | Sep 04 08:55 |
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cubezzz | now I'm thinking what the common format should be | Sep 04 08:55 |
cubezzz | at one time, it could have been wordstar or WP | Sep 04 08:55 |
__c | cubezzz: ancient history, man. WP and WordStar just couldn't make the transition to GUI, and they died. Simple as that. | Sep 04 08:56 |
cubezzz | I'm not defending wordstar or WP, I never even liked WP :) | Sep 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | Internet Radio Company Says Royalty Board Is Unconstitutional http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/09/internet-radio-company-says-royalty-board-is-unconstitutional-.html | Sep 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | Hunkering Down, Linux Style < http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Hunkering-Down-Linux-Style-68030.html?wlc=1252051391 > Still quoting the old shills "hairyfeet" and "drinkypoo" to counter Linux. What is this, reporting??????????? | Sep 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | __c: read this: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090421111327711 | Sep 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | When done, return to arguing | Sep 04 08:57 |
schestowitz | Microsoft broke the law versus WP | Sep 04 08:58 |
schestowitz | And the evidence is abundant | Sep 04 08:58 |
*__c goes to read | Sep 04 08:58 | |
cubezzz | I'm not even arguing really | Sep 04 08:58 |
cubezzz | all I really want is microsoft cut down to < 50% of the market | Sep 04 08:59 |
__c | schestowitz: look, I agree with all the stuff there. If they've broken the law, they should pay the penalty. We agree on this. I just don't see why I should get all up-in-arms about it. | Sep 04 09:00 |
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cubezzz | well the EU commission certainly did put the smack down on big M | Sep 04 09:01 |
cubezzz | but what did the DOJ do? | Sep 04 09:01 |
cubezzz | it seems they did very little | Sep 04 09:01 |
schestowitz | I have an idea: | Sep 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | I want to use RHEL desktop | Sep 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | Let business buy 'blanket' licences for RHEL | Sep 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | Then, I'll be happy | Sep 04 09:02 |
schestowitz | The other people will pay for RHEL whether they use it or not (many won't) | Sep 04 09:02 |
cubezzz | OEMs with Linux would be good too | Sep 04 09:02 |
__c | schestowitz: fine, that's the business's decision. | Sep 04 09:03 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: neither did enough | Sep 04 09:03 |
__c | I don't see why you shouldn't take advantage of it, though. | Sep 04 09:03 |
schestowitz | EU didn't address browser case until recently | Sep 04 09:03 |
schestowitz | DOJ is now more corrupted by Microsoft | Sep 04 09:03 |
schestowitz | In the sense that Microsoft people are amon g those running it | Sep 04 09:03 |
schestowitz | Few people complain about Ford for forcing them to buy a Ford car | Sep 04 09:04 |
schestowitz | Few people complain about GE for forcing them to buy a GE fridge | Sep 04 09:04 |
cubezzz | they can't :) | Sep 04 09:04 |
schestowitz | ALso, many people forget that the question in PCs is different | Sep 04 09:05 |
schestowitz | Browser case is NOT about bundling alone | Sep 04 09:05 |
schestowitz | It's about punishing Microsoft for ILLGALLY-obtained market share | Sep 04 09:05 |
schestowitz | The Microsoft talking point intentionally hide this | Sep 04 09:05 |
schestowitz | With claims like, Linux should also offer screens to offer browsers | Sep 04 09:05 |
cubezzz | watch Gates testimony on youtube, it's good for a laugh | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: where spin meets ignorance :-) | Sep 04 09:06 |
cubezzz | Gates can't understand basic english | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | He can | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | But he's from a lawyer family | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | So he pretends to be stupid | Sep 04 09:06 |
cubezzz | yeah | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | He doesn't want to answer questions | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | He's not stupifd | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | He just pretends | Sep 04 09:06 |
schestowitz | He never got his law degree, did he? | Sep 04 09:07 |
schestowitz | he dropped out | Sep 04 09:07 |
schestowitz | And then there's this habit of honorary degrees, which is silly IMHO | Sep 04 09:07 |
cubezzz | he stole basic from a mini-computer company | Sep 04 09:07 |
cubezzz | Microsoft's very first product | Sep 04 09:08 |
schestowitz | Bill, Bill Snr and the mom sure knew how to use the law and family connections to get away with criminal activity, make wealth and keep Billy out of prison | Sep 04 09:08 |
schestowitz | I suppose you know all the stories | Sep 04 09:08 |
cubezzz | oh, he's a law breaker many times over | Sep 04 09:08 |
schestowitz | Now they are doing a PR campaign | Sep 04 09:08 |
schestowitz | Billy bought some newspaper where he imposed love of himself upon people | Sep 04 09:08 |
schestowitz | All the 'PR fluff' you'd find in mags like "Fortune", "USA Today", "Forbes" etc | Sep 04 09:09 |
schestowitz | Those that glorify the rich men of America and set trends in reporting | Sep 04 09:09 |
schestowitz | But Rckerfeller did the same | Sep 04 09:09 |
schestowitz | Dot he crime, then spend later life photographing oneself with puppies and stuff :-) :0)( | Sep 04 09:10 |
cubezzz | the thing is standard oil was broken up | Sep 04 09:11 |
cubezzz | MIcrosoft wasn't | Sep 04 09:11 |
cubezzz | I guess it could happen one day | Sep 04 09:12 |
schestowitz | Placebos Are Getting More Effective. Drugmakers Are Desperate to Know Why. < http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff_placebo_effect?currentPage=all > | Sep 04 09:13 |
cubezzz | Stallman may have actually prevented a total Microsoft takeover | Sep 04 09:13 |
cubezzz | it's interesting that BSD never caught on the way Linux did | Sep 04 09:13 |
schestowitz | If not RMS, someone else would have done it | Sep 04 09:13 |
cubezzz | perhaps | Sep 04 09:13 |
schestowitz | He started in the 80s though, well before Microsoft was truly ont he radar | Sep 04 09:13 |
schestowitz | Yes, it's inevitable | Sep 04 09:13 |
schestowitz | Programmer write to share | Sep 04 09:14 |
schestowitz | RMS made a good licence | Sep 04 09:14 |
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schestowitz | HAd it not been Linux and GNU, more such programmer would move to BSD | Sep 04 09:14 |
cubezzz | without Stallman, there would be no GPL either, no gcc no gnu | Sep 04 09:14 |
schestowitz | Some would have probably made better licences to suit and protect their code | Sep 04 09:14 |
schestowitz | RMS was the first to do so for emacs | Sep 04 09:14 |
schestowitz | The MIT licences didn't suit him, I guess. | Sep 04 09:15 |
cubezzz | BSD was before Linux, before GNU even | Sep 04 09:15 |
cubezzz | it didn't really take off | Sep 04 09:15 |
cubezzz | but Microsoft did use BSD didn't they, at least at one point | Sep 04 09:16 |
schestowitz | Canadian Human Rights Tribunal Declares Internet Hate Speech Law Unconstitutional < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090902/1554026083.shtml > | Sep 04 09:17 |
cubezzz | there was shareware, but it wasn't FOSS that's for sure | Sep 04 09:17 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: computing was not widelyt accessible at the time | Sep 04 09:17 |
schestowitz | What would programmers do with a computer after work? | Sep 04 09:17 |
schestowitz | Or in the weekends? | Sep 04 09:17 |
schestowitz | What would they license under? | Sep 04 09:17 |
cubezzz | People had Commodore PETs, TRS-80 Model Ones, and Apple II's in the late 70's | Sep 04 09:18 |
schestowitz | There is *still* shareware, | Sep 04 09:18 |
cubezzz | they would use those computers, later on Vic-20 :) | Sep 04 09:18 |
schestowitz | Stuff the Web was composed of was not shareware | Sep 04 09:18 |
schestowitz | How many could afford a compiler? | Sep 04 09:19 |
schestowitz | It's stuff we take for granted as a commodity now | Sep 04 09:19 |
cubezzz | we had assembler in those days :) | Sep 04 09:19 |
cubezzz | 6502 and the like | Sep 04 09:19 |
schestowitz | Last time I bought an OS was 99 when I had one saddled onto a laptop | Sep 04 09:19 |
cubezzz | in the 80's I paid $200+ for Lattice C for Amiga | Sep 04 09:20 |
schestowitz | BillG saved the world :-) | Sep 04 09:20 |
schestowitz | Turning commodity to scarcity | Sep 04 09:20 |
schestowitz | Like the man who blows diamond to space to make it a rarity for the benefit of society at large | Sep 04 09:20 |
schestowitz | I heard that some precious metals are eliminated rather then disseminated because they threaten to lower the cost of the material as a whole | Sep 04 09:21 |
cubezzz | people pay for support, for training, and yes programming still | Sep 04 09:21 |
schestowitz | Now, that's just disgusting. | Sep 04 09:21 |
cubezzz | probably always will | Sep 04 09:21 |
schestowitz | IBM programs Linux | Sep 04 09:21 |
schestowitz | To make its h/w | Sep 04 09:21 |
cubezzz | Einstein said matter can't be destroyed :) | Sep 04 09:22 |
schestowitz | TO run better on its hardware | Sep 04 09:22 |
schestowitz | It builds the software for others too | Sep 04 09:22 |
cubezzz | you can't really eliminate precious metals | Sep 04 09:22 |
schestowitz | The question is, who would write freely up the stack? | Sep 04 09:22 |
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schestowitz | OOo was done by SUN which got contracts for it | Sep 04 09:22 |
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schestowitz | cubezzz: I know | Sep 04 09:22 |
schestowitz | That's why I said "Blow to space" | Sep 04 09:22 |
cubezzz | ok :) | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | Or bury/hide deeper in ground | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | Or you could change their atomic composition, which is hard | Sep 04 09:23 |
cubezzz | transmutation of elements would really change the economy, eh? :) | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | I still laugh at valuation of gold and silver | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | These are just atomic elements | Sep 04 09:23 |
cubezzz | ala Star Trek | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | Or compisitions thereof | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | Simply less abundant | Sep 04 09:23 |
schestowitz | People treat food like their property (fish) to be taken for granted | Sep 04 09:24 |
schestowitz | But it's assumed to be no-one's property, up for grabs in infinite supplies | Sep 04 09:24 |
schestowitz | Whereas stupid metals are treated as divine | Sep 04 09:24 |
cubezzz | well, you can't make gold obviously, and it's pretty rare, hence it's valuable | Sep 04 09:24 |
cubezzz | not sure what we _really_ need gold for though :) | Sep 04 09:24 |
schestowitz | Sooner or later people might have not sufficient drinkable water or food, so who cares about metals? | Sep 04 09:25 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: gold is a terrible metal | Sep 04 09:25 |
schestowitz | It's soft | Sep 04 09:25 |
schestowitz | If you want a heavy paperweight, then sure... gold is slightly better than most | Sep 04 09:25 |
cubezzz | it's ductile, I'm sure there's a practical use, it doesn't corrode I don't think | Sep 04 09:26 |
schestowitz | Well, society taught people that if the ring is made out of gold, then more love is implied. It's marketing really. | Sep 04 09:26 |
cubezzz | mostly it looks good :) | Sep 04 09:26 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: maybe diamond is better | Sep 04 09:26 |
schestowitz | At least very hard and good for digging into the ground | Sep 04 09:26 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: looks good is biased | Sep 04 09:27 |
schestowitz | And you need to polish gold a lot to make it worthy | Sep 04 09:27 |
schestowitz | I personally think the sky looks good | Sep 04 09:27 |
schestowitz | But I can't find buyers for "atmosphere" | Sep 04 09:27 |
cubezzz | that reminds me of the second Highlander movie | Sep 04 09:28 |
schestowitz | Proprietary fail: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/diebold-sells/ (Diebold Unloads Beleaguered Voting Machine Division) | Sep 04 09:28 |
Diablo-D3 | who wants to watch a legal attack blow up? | Sep 04 09:28 |
Diablo-D3 | http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/kotaku/full/~3/KjKqo9kTPfI/mechwarrior-5-runs-into-legal-trouble | Sep 04 09:28 |
cubezzz | where this evil company makes everyone think the atmosphere is poisonous | Sep 04 09:28 |
schestowitz | Sense of belonging to material is odd in its own right | Sep 04 09:29 |
Diablo-D3 | spoiler: harmony gold doesn't own the rights to macross | Sep 04 09:29 |
Diablo-D3 | big west does | Sep 04 09:29 |
schestowitz | Like.. people assume they 'own' things | Sep 04 09:29 |
schestowitz | Like it's a physical appendage to them | Sep 04 09:29 |
schestowitz | Why not buy land of he moon, too? | Sep 04 09:29 |
Diablo-D3 | FASA already settled their differences with big west and removed the designs from all future products | Sep 04 09:29 |
schestowitz | [if you get to say it's yours] | Sep 04 09:29 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: FASA is pissed off at the Vole | Sep 04 09:30 |
Diablo-D3 | Harmony Gold is trying to SCO FASA | Sep 04 09:30 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: see what I just wrote | Sep 04 09:30 |
Diablo-D3 | this should turn into an epic legal battle | Sep 04 09:30 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/31/fasa-interactive-on-microsoft/ | Sep 04 09:30 |
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Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: that has nothing to do with anything | Sep 04 09:30 |
schestowitz | OK | Sep 04 09:30 |
cubezzz | schestowitz, I'll give you the Andromeda Galaxy, but you have to go there to stake your claim :) | Sep 04 09:30 |
Diablo-D3 | we're talking about the battletech/mechwarrior property here | Sep 04 09:30 |
schestowitz | Can I name it? | Sep 04 09:30 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft owning fasa is not relevent here | Sep 04 09:31 |
schestowitz | How about naming stars?? :-) | Sep 04 09:31 |
cubezzz | yeah :) | Sep 04 09:31 |
schestowitz | We could give a star to each man and women that ever lived | Sep 04 09:31 |
schestowitz | So say... which galaxy is 'your' star in | Sep 04 09:31 |
schestowitz | ? | Sep 04 09:31 |
cubezzz | too bad Tesla wasn't alive now | Sep 04 09:31 |
schestowitz | This reminds me of a video I watched last night... wait... | Sep 04 09:31 |
cubezzz | instead of Microsoft we would have ..... Teslasoft :) | Sep 04 09:33 |
schestowitz | Skip to 7:00: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoXP5gAudto&feature=related | Sep 04 09:33 |
cubezzz | or even better, Teslasoft could kick Microsoft's ass | Sep 04 09:34 |
schestowitz | They would have poached what remained of MSFT | Sep 04 09:35 |
schestowitz | Maybe hire Ballmer to become Marketing VP | Sep 04 09:35 |
schestowitz | Music Comes Back To Life On YouTube In The UK < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090903/0108596089.shtml > | Sep 04 09:36 |
cubezzz | I hope that's not Ballmer selling Windows 1.0 | Sep 04 09:36 |
cubezzz | ok, good it's Cosmos :) | Sep 04 09:37 |
schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/infrastructure/management/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219501027 "CEO John Swainson led a multi-year turnaround effort at the IT management company after an accounting scandal. His successor has not been named." | Sep 04 09:38 |
schestowitz | CA= corruption | Sep 04 09:38 |
schestowitz | ALso Microsoft friends | Sep 04 09:38 |
schestowitz | http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/09/02/photo-and-descriptio.html | Sep 04 09:39 |
schestowitz | Won't be lond before Kindle runs Doom | Sep 04 09:40 |
schestowitz | *long | Sep 04 09:40 |
schestowitz | "Maybe it's a sign of the rough economy, or a push to get more people trained in its technologies, but Microsoft is suddenly offering discounts of as much as 25 percent on exams required to receive Microsoft certifications." http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/new_discount_for_microsoft_exams.html?ana=from_rss | Sep 04 09:43 |
schestowitz | Microsoft(shill)watch has already decided: http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/desktop_mobile/microsofts_zune_hd_will_stand_alone_in_battle_with_ipod.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535 | Sep 04 09:58 |
schestowitz | What is this, what have they made of the site? | Sep 04 09:58 |
schestowitz | And Mary Jo FOley is also in Fangal mode | Sep 04 09:59 |
schestowitz | Sladhdot uses the Microsoft Gralla shill to suggest a 'comparison' between OSes: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/31/1916238/OS-Performance-mdash-Snow-Leopard-Windows-7-and-Ubuntu-910 | Sep 04 10:01 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu award for late King Sabata < http://www.dispatch.co.za/article.aspx?id=342159 > | Sep 04 10:04 |
__c | schestowitz: that's not a bad comparison. Subjective, yes, but having used Win7, it's fair. | Sep 04 10:05 |
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schestowitz | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-9-10-Alpha-5-Has-OpenOffice-org-3-1-1-120879.shtml | Sep 04 10:27 |
schestowitz | Hey, _mutex_ | Sep 04 10:27 |
schestowitz | aka "cheese" | Sep 04 10:28 |
DaemonFC | Novell must has stopped pouring cash into Banshee | Sep 04 10:29 |
DaemonFC | even the development version is almost hopelessly behind Rhythmbox | Sep 04 10:30 |
DaemonFC | several pieces of it don't even work anymore | Sep 04 10:30 |
__c | DaemonFC: maybe they don't know ... open a bug? | Sep 04 10:32 |
DaemonFC | known issues | Sep 04 10:32 |
DaemonFC | they just haven't fixed them | Sep 04 10:32 |
DaemonFC | Last.FM hasn't worked in months | Sep 04 10:32 |
DaemonFC | the FreeDB lookup plugin no longer works | Sep 04 10:32 |
__c | weird | Sep 04 10:33 |
DaemonFC | I was using Banshee because Rhythmbox used to suck | Sep 04 10:34 |
DaemonFC | Rhythmbox has pulled way ahead though | Sep 04 10:34 |
schestowitz | Try exaile | Sep 04 10:35 |
schestowitz | I use it right now | Sep 04 10:35 |
schestowitz | It has plugins too | Sep 04 10:35 |
DaemonFC | Exaile was not that great last time I checked it | Sep 04 10:35 |
DaemonFC | that's been a while though | Sep 04 10:35 |
DaemonFC | Exaile Average rating 50 | Sep 04 10:37 |
DaemonFC | heh | Sep 04 10:37 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Joachim Kempin: “AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT RUN ON Vl[R]GIN PCs I AM AT LEAST SEMI HAPPY” http://ping.fm/DUvzB | Sep 04 10:53 | |
schestowitz | Exaile 0.3.0 is out iirc | Sep 04 10:54 |
schestowitz | I use an old version | Sep 04 10:55 |
schestowitz | Mandriva repos.. | Sep 04 10:55 |
schestowitz | Sharp unleashes Ubuntu-based Netbook < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10320742-62.html > | Sep 04 10:56 |
schestowitz | Japan only -- for now | Sep 04 10:56 |
schestowitz | [ANNOUNCE] LyX 1.6.4.1 is released | Sep 04 10:58 |
schestowitz | "LyX 1.6.4.1, a minor service upgrade release, is available now. The upgrade | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | fixes a regression that prevented the release of Mac OS X binaries for LyX | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | 1.6.4." | Sep 04 10:59 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bad naming: "Lubuntu" http://ping.fm/yvucT People will use the "lubricant" jokes against it. | Sep 04 10:59 | |
schestowitz | Who cares about OS X? | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | "23 September are oral proceedings concerning the i4i patent lawsuit | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDmapGuOCtLk | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | and 24 September are as you know the annual Stop Software Patents day | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | celebrations. Apparenly at the date there is also an ECIS meet-up in | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | Brussels, an association which takes a more pretty view of Microsoft and | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | filed diverse antitrust complainst against the company. | Sep 04 10:59 |
schestowitz | What a coincidence. Do you expect Microsoft to join the campaign this year?" | Sep 04 10:59 |
__c | I wouldn't expect IBM or Google to be there, either ... | Sep 04 11:09 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Sep 04 11:24 |
DaemonFC | Linux 2.6.31 will be more responsive on systems with less memory | Sep 04 11:24 |
DaemonFC | http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_31#head-799157cd8729eba8ee5bc1ff0290d7414f366ef2 | Sep 04 11:25 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Telstra and Microsoft Make it Official: Microsoft Enters Telstra’s Board http://ping.fm/5f29I | Sep 04 11:38 | |
DaemonFC | I'm lining up possible candidates to replace my AverMedia M780 tuner | Sep 04 11:43 |
DaemonFC | I've given up on there ever being a Linux driver for it | Sep 04 11:43 |
schestowitz | http://www.phonesreview.co.uk/2009/08/29/poll-is-the-new-nokia-n900-really-a-good-linux-mobile-phone/ Poll: Is the new Nokia N900 really a good Linux mobile phone? | Sep 04 11:46 |
DaemonFC | about the only affordable replacements I see need binary firmware | Sep 04 11:47 |
DaemonFC | which is not my first pick | Sep 04 11:47 |
schestowitz | The ANdrew Thomas shill is attacking Linux with NetApps lies again | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | He's close to Micr | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | s | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | They work together | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | TG Daily is a trash baskey cause of him | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | Also attacking Firefoc | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | Also attacking Firefox | Sep 04 11:51 |
schestowitz | COmpromises with hardware you should not have bought is reasonable | Sep 04 11:52 |
schestowitz | http://channel.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20035 "Windows Mobile has been losing market share recently to a combination of the success of the iPhone and of Blackberry devices and the trend towards Android and proprietary Linux-based operating systems. It needs to keep Windows Mobile in the game until it releases version 7, which is expected to be a complete re-build." | Sep 04 11:54 |
DaemonFC | well, schestowitz, most of the TV cards that are correctly supported with no configuration or binary firmware either cost $200 or are only useful if you live in europe | Sep 04 11:55 |
DaemonFC | I spent a good deal of effort racking through the driver list in the kernel and only found a couple that may work with a lot of tinkering | Sep 04 11:56 |
DaemonFC | on the other hand I suppose I could always send it back if I can't make it work | Sep 04 11:56 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz can't be worse than Ubuntu 8.04, "Hairy Hardon" | Sep 04 12:02 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Saw Sophie was on her DS in chat. So I started mine up, joined her chat and sent her little doodles. Lovely chuckles from the other room :) | Sep 04 12:06 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] According to stats from this one source, GNU/Linux carries on gaining whereas OS X remains stable. http://ping.fm/AqMLx | Sep 04 12:08 | |
schestowitz | Maggie Shiels on GOOG http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8237271.stm | Sep 04 12:35 |
schestowitz | Fanboy Asay is being a nuisance again: http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/09/04/the-ec-is-mostly-but-not-entirely-wrong-about-oraclemysql/ | Sep 04 12:38 |
schestowitz | How can /ANYONE/ think that allowing Oracle to get mysql is a Good THing{TM}? | Sep 04 12:38 |
__c | schestowitz: umm, because Oracle does DBs, and is good at them? | Sep 04 12:39 |
schestowitz | Sun Reports Loss For Final Quarter http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/28/sun-microsystems-oracle-markets-equities-earnings.html?partner=yahootix | Sep 04 12:39 |
__c | So what could emerge is an even better DB? | Sep 04 12:39 |
schestowitz | They should break apart SUN | Sep 04 12:39 |
schestowitz | Let MySQL goes indpendent | Sep 04 12:39 |
schestowitz | WOrk with MariaDB and other groups | Sep 04 12:39 |
schestowitz | __c: you sounds like those Oracle lobbyists | Sep 04 12:40 |
__c | Why, do you have something against Oracle? | Sep 04 12:40 |
schestowitz | Less choice adds nothing | Sep 04 12:40 |
schestowitz | Price-fixing and all | Sep 04 12:40 |
__c | schestowitz: yes, they hired me to sit here all day on the off-chance that you would mention them ;) | Sep 04 12:40 |
schestowitz | I was joking, well.. duh | Sep 04 12:40 |
schestowitz | :-) | Sep 04 12:41 |
__c | *shrug*. There's always the GPLed version of MySQL. Might not be as good, but them's the breaks. | Sep 04 12:41 |
schestowitz | http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090901005402&newsLang=en | Sep 04 12:41 |
schestowitz | Haha. http://www.mindtouch.com/Newsroom/Social_Media_Press_Release/2009-09-01 Watch the Linux shot at the to | Sep 04 12:42 |
schestowitz | Mono company from Microsoft folks | Sep 04 12:42 |
schestowitz | Hiding behind "Linux" brand | Sep 04 12:42 |
__c | schestowitz: ? | Sep 04 12:43 |
__c | the graphic at the top, "Linux" magazine ... I don't get it? | Sep 04 12:44 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] An open-source chessboard (pic): http://ping.fm/iuSRE | Sep 04 12:45 | |
schestowitz | Sendmail Introduces New Message Processing Platform http://www.sendmail.com/sm/company/press_releases/2009/20090831/ | Sep 04 12:46 |
schestowitz | Continuent Announces New Tungsten Version http://www.emediawire.com/releases/Continuent/Tungsten/prweb2808654.htm | Sep 04 12:47 |
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schestowitz | Oracle could deal Sun hardware to HP http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/08/27/oracle-could-deal-sun-hardware-to-hp/?source=yahoo_quote | Sep 04 12:47 |
schestowitz | They should deal mysql to... well, itself! | Sep 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | Even IBM | Sep 04 12:48 |
schestowitz | IBM's DBs are not its core business. | Sep 04 12:48 |
__c | schestowitz: other than the fact that they bought it, I'd agree with you. | Sep 04 12:48 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If Oracle intends to give away Sun h/w < http://ping.fm/yVvJO >, why not give mysql another home? | Sep 04 12:49 | |
schestowitz | __c: not bought yet | Sep 04 13:01 |
schestowitz | Antitrust/regulators | Sep 04 13:01 |
schestowitz | Same with Microhoo! | Sep 04 13:01 |
__c | schestowitz: it's likely to be bought, by all accounts. I suppose we'll see, who knows. | Sep 04 13:02 |
__c | What's Microhoo? | Sep 04 13:02 |
MinceR | m$+yahoo! | Sep 04 13:02 |
__c | mmm. Don't they have a deal instead? | Sep 04 13:02 |
MinceR | they do | Sep 04 13:03 |
MinceR | and it sticks them together | Sep 04 13:03 |
MinceR | it's one evil mess with a common goal now, against the rest of the world | Sep 04 13:03 |
MinceR | time to resurrect p2p websearch, i guess | Sep 04 13:03 |
__c | "evil"? Ummm yeah, sure. | Sep 04 13:03 |
__c | As long as they deliver good search results and don't do anything too stupid, I'll use 'em. | Sep 04 13:04 |
MinceR | your choice | Sep 04 13:04 |
MinceR | just don't come whining after they've used the profile they've built about you against you | Sep 04 13:04 |
__c | what, you mean like Facebook does? | Sep 04 13:05 |
__c | Or Google? | Sep 04 13:05 |
MinceR | (even if someone else buys it from them and they use it against you) | Sep 04 13:05 |
MinceR | pretty much, yes | Sep 04 13:05 |
__c | So my choices are (a) don't use search or (b) use search and lose some privacy. | Sep 04 13:05 |
*__c picks (b) | Sep 04 13:05 | |
__c | Same choice the world has made for the last decade ;). | Sep 04 13:05 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Among those signs that GNU/Linux is growing: 60 "Thousand Russian Teachers Will Learn Linux by the End of 2009" < http://ping.fm/8jspM > | Sep 04 13:08 | |
schestowitz | MinceR: your buddy wants to feed the gazelle to the lion: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10344537-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad | Sep 04 13:15 |
MinceR | __c: actually it's possible to enhance privacy while searching. for example, by using Scroogle or Tor. | Sep 04 13:17 |
MinceR | schestowitz: that clown isn't and has never been my buddy. :> | Sep 04 13:17 |
schestowitz | EC's Long, Hard Look at Sun-Oracle Deal Gets Longer, Harder < http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/68040.html > | Sep 04 13:18 |
MinceR | __c: also, a DHT-based p2p websearch should be more secure/private, too. | Sep 04 13:18 |
schestowitz | Is there still a scroogle search bar for FF? | Sep 04 13:19 |
schestowitz | When I last used it they killed it | Sep 04 13:19 |
MinceR | dunno | Sep 04 13:19 |
MinceR | i currently use my Web Command Line to launch it anyway | Sep 04 13:19 |
schestowitz | MinceR: sorry about that | Sep 04 13:19 |
schestowitz | I confused Asay with your real buddy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steve_ballmer_2007_outdoors2.jpg | Sep 04 13:19 |
MinceR | and Quick Search Bookmarks should work, too | Sep 04 13:19 |
MinceR | he isn't my buddy either. | Sep 04 13:19 |
schestowitz | But look | Sep 04 13:20 |
schestowitz | He looks so innocent | Sep 04 13:20 |
schestowitz | I'm sure there's a real spirit inside that tin man | Sep 04 13:20 |
MinceR | also, i think the search widget can have any engine added to it still. | Sep 04 13:20 |
MinceR | sure, a real spirit from the Lower Planes | Sep 04 13:20 |
MinceR | dunno which | Sep 04 13:20 |
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Sep 04 13:21 | |
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Sep 04 13:21 | |
schestowitz | PJ waste effort IMHO with Psychostar.. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090902220126322 | Sep 04 13:23 |
schestowitz | *Wastes | Sep 04 13:23 |
schestowitz | Google Chrome to Be the Browser That Greets Sony VAIO Buyers < http://ostatic.com/blog/google-chrome-to-be-the-browser-that-greets-sony-vaio-buyers > | Sep 04 13:25 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] World Day Against Software Patents on the 24th September, more infos coming soon... | Sep 04 13:41 | |
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schestowitz | oiaohm: se Telstra post | Sep 04 14:03 |
oiaohm | Thinking Telstra still has control of most of australias land lines. | Sep 04 14:04 |
oiaohm | Its a little more important than you kinda made out. | Sep 04 14:04 |
schestowitz | Indian outsourcers ramp up again < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1532358/indian-outsourcers-ramp > | Sep 04 14:05 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/090309-android-wimax-mobile-device-and.html | Sep 04 14:06 |
schestowitz | Lots of good Linux news today, oiaohm | Sep 04 14:10 |
oiaohm | http://profy.com/2009/08/20/russian-teachers-will-learn-linux-by-2010/ << now that is a change. | Sep 04 14:10 |
schestowitz | kde hold great promise (share-wise): http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/478 http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/open-source-photo-processing-comes-of-age/ | Sep 04 14:11 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, posted here earlier | Sep 04 14:11 |
oiaohm | Once KDE for windows works lot of migration issues will be able to be reduced. | Sep 04 14:12 |
schestowitz | Oops | Sep 04 14:13 |
schestowitz | I posted the wrong URL in Twitterdentica | Sep 04 14:13 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Among those signs that GNU/Linux is growing: "60 Thousand Russian Teachers Will Learn Linux by the End of 2009" http://ping.fm/ZQdNl (co ... | Sep 04 14:14 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Microsoft training slides for Best Buy to push Windows 7 on netbooks http://is.gd/2Srd9 | Sep 04 14:14 | |
oiaohm | LOL | Sep 04 14:14 |
oiaohm | Its not like you to stuff up a link that often schestowitz | Sep 04 14:15 |
schestowitz | anti-Linux | Sep 04 14:15 |
schestowitz | Crazy forum that.... http://www.overclock.net/customavatars/avatar58914_1.gif | Sep 04 14:17 |
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to MinceR | Sep 04 14:18 | |
LMAO at Vista 7 training. Vista 7 provides none of the four promised things, choice, compatibility, familiarity or peace of mind. | Sep 04 14:19 | |
oiaohm | Notice something funny about that training. | Sep 04 14:19 |
oiaohm | MS is mentioning Linux. | Sep 04 14:19 |
schestowitz | twitter: it's like an anti Linux Wal-mart routine | Sep 04 14:20 |
schestowitz | Remotely | Sep 04 14:20 |
oiaohm | you only do that if you fear your competitor other wise you just talk about your own product and hope the staff don't know about the other. | Sep 04 14:20 |
it's a DRM upsell with a minor facelift that blows your old software away and confuses the crap out of the user for zero security gain. | Sep 04 14:20 | |
oiaohm | Not exactly. | Sep 04 14:21 |
oiaohm | MS threated users that if they did not upgrade to vista the next upgrade would be painful. | Sep 04 14:21 |
When they get into the specifics is where they really start lying. | Sep 04 14:21 | |
oiaohm | Not like MS could miss carrying out the threat. | Sep 04 14:22 |
oiaohm | No threat more people likely to skip upgrading. | Sep 04 14:22 |
Vista has had crappy iPod support all along. iPod sucks like that but you might have been better off with gnu/linux and were certainly better off with a Mac if iPod is all you care about. | Sep 04 14:22 | |
oiaohm | Saidly Vista support of MS own equal to the iPod was not much better. | Sep 04 14:23 |
schestowitz | iTunes crashed Vista | Sep 04 14:24 |
schestowitz | I can find reports easily | Sep 04 14:24 |
schestowitz | I wrote about some | Sep 04 14:24 |
oiaohm | Lots of things using USB crashed on Vista. | Sep 04 14:24 |
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Sep 04 14:25 | |
oiaohm | Web cams particular brands of USB sticks ipods | Sep 04 14:25 |
Yes, Vista regularly sabotaged iTunes. | Sep 04 14:25 | |
oiaohm | Basically the killed the stack. | Sep 04 14:25 |
schestowitz | VIsta uses USB? [Vista crashes Vista] | Sep 04 14:25 |
schestowitz | TCP/IP stack too | Sep 04 14:25 |
schestowitz | They threw out the BS code | Sep 04 14:25 |
oiaohm | Yep | Sep 04 14:25 |
schestowitz | And VIsta became bad for networking | Sep 04 14:26 |
schestowitz | One of the reasons for people to abandon VIsta | Sep 04 14:26 |
oiaohm | Vista with crashed tcp/ip stack is funny. | Sep 04 14:26 |
oiaohm | 30 mins to login. | Sep 04 14:26 |
schestowitz | Also, it had huge flaws in TCP/IP | Sep 04 14:26 |
I've collected a lot of Vista media suck, it's a whole category of fail. | Sep 04 14:26 | |
schestowitz | Some critical, remotely exploitable | Sep 04 14:26 |
oiaohm | And stack has to be manually restarted. | Sep 04 14:26 |
schestowitz | Magic packets own the OS | Sep 04 14:26 |
oiaohm | Because it does not start clean every good. | Sep 04 14:26 |
oiaohm | good/boot | Sep 04 14:26 |
oiaohm | I don't know who designed the Vista tcp/ip stack but they were insane. | Sep 04 14:26 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: same in Vista 7 by the way | Sep 04 14:26 |
schestowitz | Same stack that it | Sep 04 14:26 |
Yes, Vista had such bad networking it was able to take down wifi access points. | Sep 04 14:26 | |
schestowitz | Which is why it'll fail | Sep 04 14:26 |
schestowitz | Used by enthusiasts att he most | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | *moment | Sep 04 14:27 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #semanticweb requires humans in the loop, or this happens: http://is.gd/2SsDe (humans are why Wikipedia beats random Google clicks) | Sep 04 14:27 | |
schestowitz | Liie Ubuntu alphas | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | Users of Ubuntu alpha like it | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | Case it's Ubuntu... | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | WHo else would bother with alpha? | Sep 04 14:27 |
overall, the lies are showing though - even for people who work at Best Buy. | Sep 04 14:27 | |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:27 |
I hope this guy has covered his identity, Best Buy and M$ will fire him for sharing. | Sep 04 14:27 | |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:27 |
schestowitz | You must bless Microsoft | Sep 04 14:28 |
schestowitz | Or else.... | Sep 04 14:28 |
schestowitz | You must bless Microsoft | Sep 04 14:28 |
schestowitz | "WRONG" | Sep 04 14:28 |
oiaohm | The best part of it MS screwed up. | Sep 04 14:28 |
schestowitz | Why downgrade to Vista 7? | Sep 04 14:29 |
schestowitz | http://www.overclock.net/windows/569458-microsoft-attack-linux-retail-level-probably.html | Sep 04 14:29 |
oiaohm | Always a percentage of people giving a breffing will question it. | Sep 04 14:29 |
schestowitz | Cause otherwise you fail the exam | Sep 04 14:29 |
The vista media suck list, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/179019 | Sep 04 14:29 | |
schestowitz | I wonder if employees get fired for not agreeing with this Microsoft anti-linux braiwash | Sep 04 14:29 |
oiaohm | Hmm we need to start one for windows 7 twitter | Sep 04 14:29 |
oiaohm | I have a feeling it will grow fast. | Sep 04 14:30 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzUwMA trmanco likes it | Sep 04 14:31 |
schestowitz | twitter: can copy most of it to Vista 7 | Sep 04 14:31 |
schestowitz | Same problems appluy | Sep 04 14:31 |
schestowitz | Including security | Sep 04 14:31 |
schestowitz | Notice that never mention VIata 7 security | Sep 04 14:31 |
schestowitz | Cause nothing changed | Sep 04 14:32 |
oiaohm | There will be new ones schestowitz | Sep 04 14:32 |
Yes, employees are fired for such things. There are plenty of people in line for the job. | Sep 04 14:32 | |
schestowitz | THey can probably have the same team write patches for Vista 7 that they write for Vista | Sep 04 14:32 |
oiaohm | Its not like MS programmers to leave the stuff that works alone. | Sep 04 14:32 |
oiaohm | Hmm kde is moving into mantaice mode. nice. | Sep 04 14:33 |
Vista pushed many retailers into bankruptcy. Windows 7 will challenge what's left. | Sep 04 14:33 | |
oiaohm | Was not vista alone twitter | Sep 04 14:33 |
Best Buy is going the full M$ route and will pay a terrible price. | Sep 04 14:34 | |
They think they have it easy because no one else is left selling computers brick and mortar. | Sep 04 14:34 | |
oiaohm | Lot of retailers had stock aquired on lowns as well that were called in. So crash + MS hurt. | Sep 04 14:34 |
but having an exclusive on turds won't make you rich. | Sep 04 14:34 | |
oiaohm | The question is will MS have to cut there price before release. | Sep 04 14:36 |
oiaohm | MS has dumped out more free copies of Windows 7 than any other version of windows. | Sep 04 14:36 |
oiaohm | And its not even released yet. | Sep 04 14:36 |
schestowitz | Feds force Googlebooks privacy promise < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/google_book_search_privacy_policy/ > | Sep 04 14:40 |
schestowitz | LG promises 3D plasma telly http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09/04/ifa_lg_pdp/ | Sep 04 14:42 |
schestowitz | Aren't these banned in EU already ^^ ? | Sep 04 14:42 |
schestowitz | They are energy-guzzling luxuries | Sep 04 14:43 |
schestowitz | Bad for ollution | Sep 04 14:43 |
schestowitz | EU to ban plasma televisions in battle against climate change < http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/eu-to-ban-plasma-televisions-in-battle-against-climate-change-14136817.html > | Sep 04 14:44 |
schestowitz | So why does the Register cover already-banned TVs (or to-be banned TVs) | Sep 04 14:44 |
schestowitz | Apple fans get jammed in the toilet, again. "An 18-year-old Sunderland lass who got her head stuck down a music festival toilet while attempting to retrieve her cash and iPhone from the malodorous pit has become a Facebook celeb, the Sun reports." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/toilet_ordeal/ | Sep 04 14:50 |
MinceR | lol | Sep 04 14:52 |
MinceR | swirlie | Sep 04 14:52 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] xkcd finds solution to spambot... http://xkcd.com/632/ | Sep 04 14:54 | |
schestowitz | MinceR: hopefully for Apple, this is not symbolic of the intelligence of thewir customers | Sep 04 14:54 |
MinceR | actually it is | Sep 04 14:55 |
schestowitz | Oh. | Sep 04 14:55 |
schestowitz | That's s shame then. | Sep 04 14:55 |
schestowitz | "Hi. I'm Linux." | Sep 04 14:55 |
schestowitz | "And I'm in the toilet... literally" | Sep 04 14:56 |
oiaohm | Linus bit by penquin made the news. | Sep 04 14:56 |
oiaohm | No reason why Linux stuck somewhere could not. | Sep 04 14:57 |
schestowitz | See comments here: http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2009/09/six-hopes-for-this-years-microsoft.html | Sep 04 14:57 |
oiaohm | Hmm I don't know if there is a Linux controlled tollet out there. | Sep 04 14:57 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: they could say she tried to retrieve a phone | Sep 04 14:57 |
schestowitz | But they said iPhone | Sep 04 14:57 |
schestowitz | Like it's somehting special | Sep 04 14:57 |
schestowitz | Like saying, "man dives into abyss in CHevy" | Sep 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | Rather than "Car" | Sep 04 14:58 |
oiaohm | iPhome is more expensive than a normal phone. | Sep 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | Because customers are gullible | Sep 04 14:58 |
oiaohm | Now cash in tollet is also a major problem. | Sep 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | What do you mean by "normal phone"? | Sep 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | iPhone is a "normal [smart]phone" | Sep 04 14:58 |
schestowitz | +HYPE | Sep 04 14:58 |
oiaohm | Normal not smart phone. | Sep 04 14:59 |
oiaohm | That you get basically for free on prepaid. | Sep 04 14:59 |
schestowitz | But, but...... the adverts in the UK say iPhone can now... wait for it.. copy and paste | Sep 04 14:59 |
oiaohm | Now going after a prepaid cheep phone would be pure stupidity. | Sep 04 14:59 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Trouble in SUSE land http://ping.fm/CWmt3 | Sep 04 15:01 | |
schestowitz | oiaohm: so is buying an iPhone | Sep 04 15:01 |
*Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 15:01 | |
schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/14652/new_red_hat_linuxs_top_five_features "Access Denied" | Sep 04 15:03 |
schestowitz | What happened? | Sep 04 15:03 |
Eruaran | hmm | Sep 04 15:04 |
oiaohm | http://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/camera-2.0/ Hmm some project are just warped. | Sep 04 15:05 |
MinceR | hypePhones aren't smartphones. | Sep 04 15:06 |
oiaohm | http://blogs.computerworld.com/14653/new_red_hat_linuxs_top_five_features The link has changed a number for some reason schestowitz | Sep 04 15:07 |
MinceR | smartphones can have software of the user's choice installed on it from any source. | Sep 04 15:07 |
http://slashdot.org/submission/1066943/Ms-Anti-Linux-Training-at-Best-Buy | Sep 04 15:07 | |
Vista 7 failure log is updated. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Sep 04 15:11 | |
"09/03 - Windows 7 propaganda is laughed at in public by Best Buy employees." | Sep 04 15:12 | |
MinceR | :D | Sep 04 15:14 |
Vista 7 hype log updated http://slashdot.org/journal.pl?op=edit&id=216759 | Sep 04 15:16 | |
oiaohm | The list will grow I expect quite a lot over the next month twitter | Sep 04 15:16 |
M$ themselves try to teach Best Buy employees to lie about Windows 7, and are called on it in public. | Sep 04 15:16 | |
Diablo-D3 | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/6136380/Dutch-police-ruin-legal-cannabis-experiment.html | Sep 04 15:20 |
Diablo-D3 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfluaMKoOY | Sep 04 15:22 |
lol -> THERE ARE SIGNS that the IT downturn has passed as Indian outsourcers are starting to hire again on a massive scale. | Sep 04 15:23 | |
schestowitz | My Arch Linux Experiment (Part 1) < http://www.itnewstoday.com/?p=858 > | Sep 04 15:24 |
schestowitz | Not working for him | Sep 04 15:24 |
schestowitz | That's why I won't try Arch or Gentoo | Sep 04 15:24 |
Well ... if the expansion comes in India and you live elsewhere, the IT downturn is not over for you. | Sep 04 15:24 | |
I know a firm that used Gentoo commercially. | Sep 04 15:25 | |
They used it for transport calcs because they wanted complete control of the kernel build. | Sep 04 15:25 | |
oiaohm | The secound wave of debt clearing has not happened in the USA yet. | Sep 04 15:31 |
oiaohm | I would not be sure until it happened that the down turn is over. | Sep 04 15:32 |
schestowitz | http://www.eontarionow.com/technology/2009/09/03/dump-firefox-for-the-new-opera/ | Sep 04 15:33 |
schestowitz | Temporary fixes are no use for terminal debt | Sep 04 15:33 |
schestowitz | Bailout. *LOL* | Sep 04 15:33 |
schestowitz | Let the kids and grandkids suffer | Sep 04 15:34 |
schestowitz | It's like with global warning | Sep 04 15:34 |
schestowitz | People don't like reality, so they pass the issue to future generations | Sep 04 15:34 |
schestowitz | Debt, pollution, hunger, lack of fuel | Sep 04 15:34 |
schestowitz | http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/09/wwwbarackobama666com.html "I've received many requests to launch a website about Obama. Well, here it is www.BarackObama666.com But for those that know me, I do not have the time to post and operate the site. If you are interested in being a Contributor or part-time Web assistant, please email me Mike@Morgan7.com" | Sep 04 15:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Putin <3 Stalin? http://ping.fm/Q53Vm | Sep 04 15:42 | |
schestowitz | Downright Painful: Server Sales Plummeted in Q2 < http://www.internetnews.com/hardware/article.php/3837521 > | Sep 04 15:49 |
schestowitz | "More than 20% of IT professionals say they have experienced age discrimination, and unemployment among senior IT professionals is running at over 30%." http://www.itwire.com/content/view/27429/50/ | Sep 04 15:50 |
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schestowitz | Mozilla to protect Adobe Flash users - Update http://www.h-online.com/open/Mozilla-to-protect-Adobe-Flash-users-Update--/news/114157 | Sep 04 15:54 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: yo, what's new? | Sep 04 15:54 |
wallclimber | Good morning! I've been reading the newest BN articles | Sep 04 15:55 |
wallclimber | Loved the Flying Chair award :o) | Sep 04 15:55 |
wallclimber | seller liar should be proud! | Sep 04 15:56 |
schestowitz | I didn't post much | Sep 04 15:56 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: he's too humble | Sep 04 15:56 |
schestowitz | Generally I've not had much time to post this week | Sep 04 15:56 |
wallclimber | well, I haven't really had much time to read this week, so there was a lot new to me | Sep 04 15:56 |
schestowitz | Carpeting work and stuff | Sep 04 15:56 |
wallclimber | i forgot, you've moved to a new place...how do you like it? | Sep 04 15:57 |
schestowitz | important news: EU delays Oracle-Sun deal, probing database market < http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/eu-delays-oraclesun-deal-probing-database-market-20090903-f9wu.html > | Sep 04 15:57 |
schestowitz | Kudos to the EU COmmission | Sep 04 15:57 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: very much, thanks | Sep 04 15:57 |
schestowitz | We can do another memo | Sep 04 15:57 |
schestowitz | I have 4 that are better than the last one | Sep 04 15:58 |
wallclimber | i've been reading a lot of comments that seem to think the EU is dragging their feet with the Oracle/Sun deal approval... | Sep 04 15:58 |
wallclimber | do you think that's true? I don't. | Sep 04 15:58 |
schestowitz | Microsoft has gotten extremely nervous about Linux | Sep 04 15:58 |
schestowitz | http://slashdot.org/submission/1066943/Ms-Anti-Linux-Training-at-Best-Buy | Sep 04 15:58 |
schestowitz | I think MySQL never belonged in Sun and it should be given independence somehow | Sep 04 15:59 |
wallclimber | I found an article (opinion piece) the other day that stated Linux was losing ground to Vista 7...I laughed. I think it was on digg | Sep 04 15:59 |
schestowitz | The EU can block the acquisition until it us changed | Sep 04 15:59 |
schestowitz | It should, IMHO | Sep 04 15:59 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: it's not | Sep 04 16:00 |
schestowitz | It's Microsoft shill Thomas | Sep 04 16:00 |
schestowitz | You must have read him | Sep 04 16:00 |
schestowitz | He made TWO such posts | Sep 04 16:00 |
schestowitz | In TG Daily, right? | Sep 04 16:00 |
wallclimber | i wonder if Steve B will fly to Europe to do some schmooozing | Sep 04 16:00 |
wallclimber | yes, I think that's who it was | Sep 04 16:00 |
wallclimber | i don't think it got much attention tho | Sep 04 16:00 |
Ubuntu losing ground to Windows 8!!!!!! wallclimber: I found an article (opinion piece) the other day that stated Linux was losing ground to Vista 7...I laughed. I think it was on digg | Sep 04 16:01 | |
schestowitz | See my comment here: http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/39320 | Sep 04 16:01 |
wallclimber | hi twitter! | Sep 04 16:01 |
hello. | Sep 04 16:01 | |
Not released OS steals everyone's Market Share Lunch (TM) | Sep 04 16:01 | |
that's rich. | Sep 04 16:01 | |
wallclimber | yes, i found it to be amusing...wishful thinking - brought to you by MS marketing droids | Sep 04 16:02 |
Fantasy IT Team makes Dream OS. har har. | Sep 04 16:02 | |
the droids are really grasping | Sep 04 16:03 | |
wallclimber | it's true, i've been a little amazed at how overtly desperate their actions have been lately | Sep 04 16:03 |
wallclimber | I think the i4i case scared them | Sep 04 16:04 |
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Public looting, I'm still waiting for my bailout but all I see is $180,000 of new debt. -> schestowitz: Bailout. *LOL* | Sep 04 16:05 | |
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The droids were bragging about how Vista 7 is sooooo much better than OSX a few days ago too. | Sep 04 16:06 | |
I recorded some of the madness in my Vista 7 Hype log - Hall of Shame. | Sep 04 16:06 | |
wallclimber | I read it | Sep 04 16:07 |
wallclimber | :o) | Sep 04 16:07 |
cool | Sep 04 16:07 | |
http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Sep 04 16:07 | |
wallclimber | lol...i have it bookmarked | Sep 04 16:08 |
There's a new addition for the Best Buy lie training. | Sep 04 16:08 | |
wallclimber | slashdotters swear that "grandma" never reads anything there - heh | Sep 04 16:08 |
An employee posted screen shots of M$'s Anti-Linux training this morning. | Sep 04 16:09 | |
wallclimber | (I'm reading it) | Sep 04 16:09 |
He laughed in their face at it. | Sep 04 16:09 | |
have fun, I'll be back later. | Sep 04 16:10 | |
:) | Sep 04 16:10 | |
wallclimber | bye | Sep 04 16:10 |
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 04 16:10 | |
schestowitz | wallclimber: see http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-microsoft/assorted-2009/PX00743.pdf | Sep 04 16:10 |
schestowitz | Microsoft: "[I] think we should stay super polite publically but drop the private neutron bombs. Let’s hire all their good guys [...] Let got visit all their key corporate customers and disclose the details [...] Let’s visit [...] and explain to them how much money their PC Group is throwing at a losing proposition and how easy it would be for them to work with Microsoft if they weren’t on a path to take us out of our core bu | Sep 04 16:10 |
schestowitz | siness of desktop operating systems. And finally – let’s give copies of the MS/IBM audit to each of the 25 most influential ISVs. And maybe even corporate customers too if there are no legal issues." | Sep 04 16:10 |
wallclimber | got it...reading now...do you want this one transcribed next? | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | LOL | Sep 04 16:11 |
wallclimber | I can do it now | Sep 04 16:11 |
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schestowitz | Just seen this in USENET: | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | "http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_37/b4146020996347.htm | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | "But even the software giant has tried to tamp down expectations for | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | the new operating system" | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | In other words: my 'Windows 7, I HATE IT ALREADY' campaign is bearing | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | fruit. Windows 7 will be another dud and its release will NOT result in | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | another PC upgrade cycle. Businesses will all but ignore Windows 7 and | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | most uptake will come from consumers. This would be disastrous for | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's credibility in the marketplace. | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | I wonder what M$ will come up with after the failure of Windows 7, a | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | Windows XP Second Edition? I'm pretty sure another incremental Vista | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | update won't cut it with Wall Street so they'll have to try something | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | radical. How about porting the Windows UI to Linux or (more likely) | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | FreeBSD? Might work, but far from certain. | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | Windows 7, I HATE IT ALREADY!!!" | Sep 04 16:11 |
schestowitz | UNQUOTE | Sep 04 16:11 |
Eruaran | Seems like ZDnet is publishing anti-Snow Leopard articles daily | Sep 04 16:12 |
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 04 16:12 | |
the continuing, unmitigated failure of Vista. Good night M$. | Sep 04 16:13 | |
wallclimber | What will happen to MS if Win7 is a failure too? | Sep 04 16:15 |
wallclimber | I think they'll never admit it's a failure...but do they have another OS being worked on now? | Sep 04 16:16 |
mib_3425 | probably the same as what happend with Vista, they made a motza from it and still are. | Sep 04 16:16 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: they already spout nonsense about "Vista 8" | Sep 04 16:17 |
schestowitz | They call it "Windows 8" | Sep 04 16:17 |
wallclimber | hmmm... | Sep 04 16:17 |
MinceR | or they'll come up with another naming scheme | Sep 04 16:17 |
schestowitz | <mib_3425> is mutex | Sep 04 16:17 |
MinceR | Windows VIII? | Sep 04 16:17 |
wallclimber | vapour 8? :o) | Sep 04 16:17 |
schestowitz | They ran out of names | Sep 04 16:17 |
MinceR | Windows 2020? | Sep 04 16:17 |
schestowitz | They ran back to "Windows" | Sep 04 16:17 |
they are out of money and will be gone soon. | Sep 04 16:17 | |
schestowitz | THey'll tarnish the Windows name too | Sep 04 16:17 |
Eruaran | Windows: The long goodbye | Sep 04 16:17 |
schestowitz | [if that's possible | Sep 04 16:17 |
MinceR | i really hope you're right, twitter | Sep 04 16:17 |
wallclimber | Yes, I'm pretty good at spotting mutex...even on the Ubuntu forums | Sep 04 16:17 |
schestowitz | Vista ME? | Sep 04 16:18 |
schestowitz | Midori ME? | Sep 04 16:18 |
like Chapter 11. | Sep 04 16:18 | |
schestowitz | Mojavista? | Sep 04 16:18 |
mib_3425 | ive never been on the Ubuntu forums, you sure your that good :) | Sep 04 16:18 |
Eruaran | Windows IRGNWP | Sep 04 16:18 |
wallclimber | MojaveME? | Sep 04 16:18 |
Vista Chapter 11. | Sep 04 16:18 | |
wallclimber | lol | Sep 04 16:18 |
Eruaran | IRGNWP = Its Really Good Now We Promise | Sep 04 16:18 |
wallclimber | i think they'll get some bailout bucks | Sep 04 16:19 |
wallclimber | to keep them afloat | Sep 04 16:19 |
schestowitz | ME ME ME!! | Sep 04 16:19 |
how much more can government spend on M$? | Sep 04 16:19 | |
Eruaran | Unless they can pilfer a decent OS from elsewhere, Microsoft are finished. | Sep 04 16:19 |
I don't think they will get any more. | Sep 04 16:19 | |
wallclimber | they'll spend whatever they want to...it's all imaginary money now anyway | Sep 04 16:19 |
Uncle Sam will push SE Linux instead. | Sep 04 16:19 | |
no need to waste imaginary money on imaginary property. | Sep 04 16:20 | |
schestowitz | wallclimber: not sure m[utex]ib_3425 hangs out in Ubuntu Forums, but he was in Linsux | Sep 04 16:20 |
schestowitz | Along with the anti-Linux crowd | Sep 04 16:20 |
Eruaran | The RAAF is using Suse for their flight simulators | Sep 04 16:20 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu Forums does not tolerate trolls so well | Sep 04 16:20 |
wallclimber | I dunno...Uncle Sam seems to have a Microsoft anchor tied to his ankles | Sep 04 16:20 |
mib_3425 | never been on linsux either !!! gee, you're way off base :) | Sep 04 16:20 |
wallclimber | I promise, mutex is on Ubuntu forums... | Sep 04 16:20 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: not just MSFT's | Sep 04 16:21 |
schestowitz | Many companies | Sep 04 16:21 |
mib_3425 | link me a single post from linsux or untuto forums that you claim is me please. | Sep 04 16:21 |
schestowitz | Even banks | Sep 04 16:21 |
schestowitz | c/f bailout | Sep 04 16:21 |
Eruaran | Mr Dee doesn't talk to me anymore | Sep 04 16:21 |
Eruaran | :P | Sep 04 16:21 |
schestowitz | "Citizens are nice, but business comes first" | Sep 04 16:21 |
schestowitz | Goblin engages with him | Sep 04 16:21 |
mib_3425 | Show me where, Ill give you a million dollars if you can show me one post from linsux or ubuntu forums. neither of which i have any interest in whatsoever. | Sep 04 16:22 |
schestowitz | Knowing he'sm a troll | Sep 04 16:22 |
schestowitz | Does Costa Boy still shill under that pseudonym? | Sep 04 16:22 |
Eruaran | Since I started posting things like, "Trying for another free notebook Andre ?" | Sep 04 16:22 |
Eruaran | He dunna wanna talke to me | Sep 04 16:22 |
Eruaran | :) | Sep 04 16:22 |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Sep 04 16:23 | |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Sep 04 16:23 | |
schestowitz | He was angry at me | Sep 04 16:23 |
schestowitz | Very angry | Sep 04 16:23 |
schestowitz | Not cause I lied | Sep 04 16:23 |
schestowitz | He said he didn't like my attitude | Sep 04 16:23 |
Eruaran | lol | Sep 04 16:23 |
schestowitz | I guess I need to expose shills by phoning them first | Sep 04 16:23 |
schestowitz | Y'know, to get *their* side of the story | Sep 04 16:24 |
Eruaran | He was on a story the other day trying to turn an article about Nokia's N900 into a Windows 7 marketing opportunity.. | Sep 04 16:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #Apple Owes Great Credit to #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/Sx7Jm | Sep 04 16:31 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Misconceptions About #Desktop #Usability and How They Are Used for #FUD http://ping.fm/ksJiP | Sep 04 16:32 | |
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mib_3425 | I do hang around of PhysicsForum sometimes if that counts, it even has a software and IT section in it. It's a good site, with lots of facts. | Sep 04 16:32 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: hehe. | Sep 04 16:32 |
schestowitz | Typical | Sep 04 16:32 |
schestowitz | Nokia N900 has some nice 3d effects | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | It challenges ALL the phones | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | The challenge it has now is 3rd party s/w | Sep 04 16:33 |
Eruaran | It looks pretty nice | Sep 04 16:33 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : compiz on Nokia ? | Sep 04 16:33 |
Eruaran | Maemo | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | mib_3425: you don't like us and you don't like the topic | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | Why are you here? | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | And why wrestle to escape filters? | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | I'm not spending my time in Windows forums | Sep 04 16:33 |
mib_3425 | it's interesting to read, and why not ? | Sep 04 16:33 |
schestowitz | Or forums of people whom I dislike | Sep 04 16:34 |
schestowitz | It makes both sides uneasy | Sep 04 16:34 |
schestowitz | I ask you politely to leave us alone | Sep 04 16:34 |
mib_3425 | you have a problem with someone who casts a balanced eye ? | Sep 04 16:34 |
schestowitz | Finding Maemo | Sep 04 16:34 |
_Hicham_ | LEAVE US ALONE | Sep 04 16:34 |
mib_3425 | Do I have to be biased to stay here? | Sep 04 16:34 |
schestowitz | I know the shillers defense | Sep 04 16:35 |
schestowitz | Seen it for years | Sep 04 16:35 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux -only Shop Makes More GNU/Linux Switchers http://ping.fm/25psj | Sep 04 16:35 | |
schestowitz | They say "they add balance" | Sep 04 16:35 |
mib_3425 | and we do, and keep some of the more outragious claims in check, | Sep 04 16:35 |
mib_3425 | because you may think someone may actually check, do you find that a problem | Sep 04 16:35 |
schestowitz | mutex: you can fling manure in linsux | Sep 04 16:37 |
schestowitz | THey, unlike us, might appreciate it, too | Sep 04 16:37 |
mib_3425 | have I dont that today ? | Sep 04 16:37 |
_Hicham_ | are u sure he is mutex ? | Sep 04 16:37 |
schestowitz | "Petty troll" trick] | Sep 04 16:37 |
mib_3425 | I do not think ive mentioned the "L" word at all | Sep 04 16:37 |
schestowitz | Try to be seen as innocent | Sep 04 16:37 |
Eruaran | A shill is by definition unbalanced. | Sep 04 16:37 |
schestowitz | Another one from the Handbook | Sep 04 16:38 |
schestowitz | "I'm just adding balance"... "I'm so polite"... "why you haterz!!|" | Sep 04 16:38 |
__c | mm, sorry, this is getting way too paranoid for me | Sep 04 16:38 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: he admitted it | Sep 04 16:38 |
mib_3425 | yes, it is :) | Sep 04 16:38 |
__c | seriously? You guys think you're being stalked by some dude named Mutex? | Sep 04 16:38 |
schestowitz | It's him | Sep 04 16:39 |
schestowitz | He admitted it | Sep 04 16:39 |
schestowitz | He was banned like 20 times already | Sep 04 16:39 |
mib_3425 | even if it is,, so what ? | Sep 04 16:39 |
schestowitz | Hehe | Sep 04 16:39 |
mib_3425 | and it's not | Sep 04 16:39 |
__c | mib_3425: seriously? You stalk these guys? | Sep 04 16:39 |
mib_3425 | I dont think so. | Sep 04 16:39 |
__c | mib_3425: 'cos if so, you need to find a healthier hobby | Sep 04 16:39 |
Eruaran | a shill is by definition, unhealthy :P | Sep 04 16:40 |
schestowitz | True. We should really bring snacks and cushion for our neughbour trolls | Sep 04 16:40 |
*__c shrugs | Sep 04 16:40 | |
__c | he doesn't seem to be admitting it now. | Sep 04 16:40 |
schestowitz | I should be careful not to talk about "propaganda" again | Sep 04 16:41 |
schestowitz | Or else Mutex will accuse me of something "Nazi" again | Sep 04 16:41 |
mib_3425 | did mutex accuse you of something "Nazi" ?? Ive never done that so it cant be me, whoever he is. | Sep 04 16:42 |
Diablo-D3 | propaganda is fun | Sep 04 16:43 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Crazy Loop "Ma Ma Ma" - one of the guys who did "Dragostea Din Tei". Has the earworm factor. http://bit.ly/s4yPK | Sep 04 16:45 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Power of the #Linux Command Line Available with #GUI Too http://ping.fm/I3I1d | Sep 04 16:45 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Advise for Advancing #GNU #Linux in the Eyes of Less Technical Folks: http://ping.fm/JDO75 | Sep 04 16:46 | |
schestowitz | __c: you don't need to PM me | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | I'm right here | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | Mutex is the only one to use the trick of mib | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | mib is banned in freenode | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | He's using this trick to hide himself | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | Thus just giving himself away | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | And he's on the same IPs as before | Sep 04 16:47 |
schestowitz | PLUS, he implicitly admitted it's him | Sep 04 16:48 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Padova Technologies Bets on GNU/Linux Clusters http://ping.fm/c70rQ | Sep 04 16:48 | |
mib_3425 | im on dynamic IP it changes all the time. | Sep 04 16:48 |
*tacone (n=Adium@151.81.154.90) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 16:48 | |
schestowitz | He's wasting people's time here | Sep 04 16:48 |
schestowitz | I'm done on that | Sep 04 16:48 |
__c | schestowitz: I like to take etiquette-related discussions to a side-channel, it avoids potential embarrassment ^_^. | Sep 04 16:48 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How the Latest #Linux Makes the #Desktop Experience Better http://ping.fm/YJCy9 | Sep 04 16:54 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mesa 7.5.1 is Released http://ping.fm/qpTn0 | Sep 04 16:57 | |
wallclimber | Well, i cannot find the thread in the Ubuntu forums that I was making reference to - have been searching. | Sep 04 16:57 |
wallclimber | however, it was back when the subject of mono was a hot topic, and there was one thread in particular that got very hostile | Sep 04 16:58 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Release of Wine http://ping.fm/k71L7 Linux runs Windows games too. The same cannot be said about Windows (running Linux games/apps). | Sep 04 16:59 | |
wallclimber | on the Ubuntu forum. one of the instigators was named mutex, with a variation, I think the "x" was capitalized | Sep 04 16:59 |
mib_3425 | never been there, and I dont have strong feeling's about mono either way, or use it. | Sep 04 16:59 |
wallclimber | but one thing I know about mutex is that he/she misspells certain words consistently...no matter where they post, it's | Sep 04 17:00 |
wallclimber | something that shows up eventually... | Sep 04 17:00 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment Meeting to Take Place in Linus' Birth Country http://ping.fm/nbEbs #kde | Sep 04 17:01 | |
__c | which is the weird thing -- I've been hanging out here all day to hear about Mono, and so far there's barely been anything. | Sep 04 17:01 |
wallclimber | can't prove it, but i know it when i see it...which means (since I can't prove it) i won't talk about it anymore...i apologise...but i will also keep searching for those comments | Sep 04 17:01 |
wallclimber | and I WILL find them | Sep 04 17:02 |
schestowitz | __c: Mono is not a major issue here | Sep 04 17:02 |
__c | Lots about Microsoft (who, I can gather, is unpopular in these-here-parts), nothing about Mono. Or Novell, for that matter ... | Sep 04 17:02 |
schestowitz | It's one among many | Sep 04 17:02 |
*__c was misled | Sep 04 17:02 | |
schestowitz | FS is the main one | Sep 04 17:02 |
schestowitz | Sometimes politics and stuff | Sep 04 17:02 |
_Hicham_ | Mono does have commercial support | Sep 04 17:04 |
_Hicham_ | they plan to port Nasa World Wind to Mono | Sep 04 17:04 |
_Hicham_ | Miguel is ambitious about that | Sep 04 17:04 |
_Hicham_ | since Google Earth is closed source | Sep 04 17:05 |
wallclimber | argh...I'm sorry i mentioned the mono word...didn't mean to get that conversation started again...i better go back to work | Sep 04 17:05 |
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 04 17:06 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fermilab and #CERN Go with #RedHat Enterprise #Linux http://ping.fm/otvnt | Sep 04 17:09 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] TortoiseGit is being written for Windows Git users http://code.google.com/p/tortoisegit/ | Sep 04 17:10 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Red Hat Has Good Virtualisation Built in http://ping.fm/Rt3rh http://ping.fm/SFPpT | Sep 04 17:10 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GateIN is Launched by #RedHat in #Summit http://ping.fm/mKkw0 | Sep 04 17:15 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Insists Oracle is Bad for Freedom, EU Blocks MySQL Acquisition for Now http://ping.fm/NKFag http://ping.fm/j1iC0 | Sep 04 17:16 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Seemingly Willing to Reform #FogComputing http://ping.fm/3Mhj5 | Sep 04 17:17 | |
__c | Well, that would be why I'm hardly interested in the conversation. | Sep 04 17:18 |
__c | OK, bye. | Sep 04 17:19 |
*__c has quit ("so long") | Sep 04 17:19 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Glimpse at New #Canonical Strategies with #Ubuntu #Linux http://ping.fm/IskEc http://ping.fm/Ec5f4 | Sep 04 17:20 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 9.10 Reaches Fifth Alpha, Previews Posted http://ping.fm/2DT3c http://ping.fm/k6J1H http://ping.fm/tatD6 | Sep 04 17:21 | |
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.112.6.254.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 17:21 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Network Install Gets a New Face http://ping.fm/utvOj | Sep 04 17:22 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LXDE-based Ubuntu Goes Public http://ping.fm/QI6Mr http://ping.fm/emCjA How long before Canonical demands a name change? | Sep 04 17:28 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Eightcore #PowerPC Good News for #Linux (Rich #Architecture Support) http://ping.fm/RxhNQ http://ping.fm/p5gJT | Sep 04 17:30 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's #Linux Efforts Expand Further http://ping.fm/FP1Do http://ping.fm/hzWVP | Sep 04 17:31 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Oh dear @financialtimes http://bit.ly/PRb5f | Sep 04 17:34 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Linux #Devices from #Archos to Look "Slick" http://ping.fm/7vv4H | Sep 04 17:35 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New "Personal Internet Devices" to Run Just #Linux http://ping.fm/Bc4qg | Sep 04 17:36 | |
schestowitz | jono: ping | Sep 04 17:36 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia and #Sharp Show #Linux Favouritism http://ping.fm/xDa5u http://ping.fm/mvh2O | Sep 04 17:37 | |
jono | heya schestowitz | Sep 04 17:37 |
schestowitz | jono: did you hear of Lubuntu? | Sep 04 17:37 |
schestowitz | Are they permitted access to trademarks? | Sep 04 17:38 |
jono | no? | Sep 04 17:38 |
jono | what is it? | Sep 04 17:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/Lubuntu-Ubuntu-with-LXDE--/news/114155 | Sep 04 17:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/First-Test-Images-of-LXDE-Lubuntu-Available | Sep 04 17:38 |
schestowitz | http://blog.lxde.org/?p=514 | Sep 04 17:38 |
jono | ahhh yes | Sep 04 17:38 |
jono | I did see that | Sep 04 17:38 |
schestowitz | Might be early enough to prevent a fuss | Sep 04 17:38 |
schestowitz | Like Satanic Edition | Sep 04 17:38 |
jono | our trademark policy is pretty generous to ensure the community can make use of trademarks http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy | Sep 04 17:39 |
jono | but derivatives can't | Sep 04 17:39 |
jono | as it is not actually ubuntu | Sep 04 17:39 |
jono | its Lubuntu | Sep 04 17:39 |
jono | are they using the trademark, schestowitz ? | Sep 04 17:39 |
schestowitz | I don't mind persaonally | Sep 04 17:39 |
ThistleWeb | loo-buntu? a distro for loo's? | Sep 04 17:39 |
jono | ThistleWeb, hehe | Sep 04 17:39 |
schestowitz | Just occurred to me that folks might think it's like kubuntu | Sep 04 17:39 |
ThistleWeb | wonder if it's brown? | Sep 04 17:39 |
jono | ThistleWeb, that would be...shit... | Sep 04 17:40 |
jono | ba-dum tish! | Sep 04 17:40 |
schestowitz | i.e. Canonical's edu|k|ubuntu for lxde | Sep 04 17:40 |
ThistleWeb | indeedy lol | Sep 04 17:40 |
jono | schestowitz, it seems they dont use the trademarks, so we don't care :) | Sep 04 17:40 |
schestowitz | Ubuntu is not brown | Sep 04 17:40 |
schestowitz | it's orance | Sep 04 17:40 |
schestowitz | *orange | Sep 04 17:40 |
jono | we love derivatives, shows the power of free software :) | Sep 04 17:40 |
schestowitz | Early vers used to be brown | Sep 04 17:40 |
ThistleWeb | beige, very trendy in the 70's along with flares, handlebar taches and flowery wallpaper | Sep 04 17:41 |
jono | most ubuntu people now use black themes | Sep 04 17:41 |
schestowitz | jono: yes, the derivative maps shows massive triangulation 'round the debian side | Sep 04 17:41 |
schestowitz | *derivatives map | Sep 04 17:41 |
jono | schestowitz, debian is total rock and roll for that :) | Sep 04 17:41 |
jono | schestowitz, so hows things dude, not chatted for a while? | Sep 04 17:41 |
schestowitz | There's room for everyone | Sep 04 17:41 |
schestowitz | Cannibalisation is xp vs Vista | Sep 04 17:42 |
schestowitz | jono: it's OK. Rainy here today. | Sep 04 17:42 |
tessier | Anything interesting happening in bn-land? | Sep 04 17:42 |
*tessier needs some rain here | Sep 04 17:42 | |
jono | schestowitz, one of the reasons I moved away lol | Sep 04 17:42 |
tessier | As usual, it's the end of summer and everything is burning down. | Sep 04 17:42 |
schestowitz | Tanks invaded bn-land and stole the flags ! | Sep 04 17:42 |
schestowitz | jono: yeah, well... you have fired now | Sep 04 17:43 |
schestowitz | RMS says it's global warming-related | Sep 04 17:43 |
schestowitz | tessier, jono and BN server are in the same area | Sep 04 17:43 |
ThistleWeb | it's in jono's house? | Sep 04 17:43 |
ThistleWeb | does he know? | Sep 04 17:44 |
jono | schestowitz, hehe | Sep 04 17:44 |
jono | schestowitz, fires are well away from where I live | Sep 04 17:44 |
schestowitz | When it rains we want sun, when it's sunny we want rain. Maybe we just don't pray enough | Sep 04 17:44 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: sheesh | Sep 04 17:44 |
schestowitz | We r00ted him | Sep 04 17:44 |
schestowitz | :-p | Sep 04 17:45 |
neighborlee | so did debian actually solve the debian women travesty I wonder,,I lost track of that | Sep 04 17:45 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Sep 04 17:45 |
jono | schestowitz, brits are never happy about weather, its the way we roll | Sep 04 17:46 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Experiences Good Period http://ping.fm/UvMZ9 | Sep 04 17:50 | |
schestowitz | jono: is anyone? | Sep 04 17:51 |
schestowitz | Neighbour's lawn syndrome | Sep 04 17:51 |
ThistleWeb | countries that enjoy all yr round warm weather now will be too hot for comfort in years to come | Sep 04 17:51 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Camera Built the Free Software Way http://ping.fm/8FQx6 | Sep 04 17:52 | |
ThistleWeb | some places will become uninhabitable | Sep 04 17:52 |
jono | schestowitz, californians are :) | Sep 04 17:52 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: some already are | Sep 04 17:52 |
ThistleWeb | yep, it'll get worse as time goes on | Sep 04 17:53 |
schestowitz | Don't worry, we'll build higher :-) | Sep 04 17:53 |
ThistleWeb | meaning more temperate places will be more sought after | Sep 04 17:53 |
ThistleWeb | if it's not land it's water; any excuse for man to kill man | Sep 04 17:53 |
schestowitz | Maybe we can grow gills | Sep 04 17:54 |
schestowitz | Then move to the ocean | Sep 04 17:54 |
ThistleWeb | giliweed FTW | Sep 04 17:54 |
schestowitz | It has twice the capacity | Sep 04 17:54 |
schestowitz | Then we can hasten global warming | Sep 04 17:54 |
schestowitz | Y'know, to get more water | Sep 04 17:54 |
*schestowitz could swear he saw men with gills in some cartoons | Sep 04 17:55 | |
ThistleWeb | the goblet of fire was an example | Sep 04 17:56 |
ThistleWeb | well, the endtimers think all the global warming is all foretold and that it's getting closer until the hippy comes back with his super sandles and saves them | Sep 04 17:57 |
ThistleWeb | the more mankind destroys the planet, the quicker he comes back and rewards them for it | Sep 04 17:58 |
neighborlee | spoken like a true athiest ? ;) | Sep 04 17:58 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Sep 04 17:59 |
ThistleWeb | ty, maybe I should start preaching | Sep 04 17:59 |
neighborlee | lol | Sep 04 18:00 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Events Promoting Free Software Come Shortly http://bit.ly/28tvb | Sep 04 18:00 | |
ThistleWeb | roll a die to pick which God I'm promoting that day | Sep 04 18:00 |
*jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 04 18:00 | |
ThistleWeb | try and tempt the red dude to possess my hand when I rol it | Sep 04 18:00 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open-Xchange Integrates with Telephony http://bit.ly/MnnXp | Sep 04 18:01 | |
ThistleWeb | for some reason I thought of the Red Guy from Cow & Chicken | Sep 04 18:01 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Diebold Dumps Its #Proprietary Failure That It Called "Voting Machine" http://bit.ly/2ph4J | Sep 04 18:05 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Give up to the #Internet http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8234125.stm | Sep 04 18:07 | |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : no IE in Windows 7 in Europe ? | Sep 04 18:07 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Shows It is Above the Law http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8237497.stm | Sep 04 18:09 | |
tessier | schestowitz: Same area? What do you mean? | Sep 04 18:09 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #IntellectualMonopolies Should be Abolished in #China and #India http://techdirt.com/articles/20090601/0607265081.shtml | Sep 04 18:11 | |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz is above the law | Sep 04 18:12 |
schestowitz | It's reserve evolution. Amphibians could at least live in both land and water. | Sep 04 18:12 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: Yes IE | Sep 04 18:12 |
schestowitz | Microsoft lovs to slink away | Sep 04 18:12 |
schestowitz | tessier: California/Bay Area | Sep 04 18:13 |
schestowitz | Jono (Ubuntu community director) left the UK for the beach in the wild west | Sep 04 18:13 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : will you buy Windows 7 E ? | Sep 04 18:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SCO Won't Talk to #LinuxFoundation Site http://bit.ly/25pu8z | Sep 04 18:14 | |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: what do you think? :-) | Sep 04 18:14 |
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_Hicham_ | schestowitz : Windows 7 maybe will offer you to install the DE of your choice ( KDE for Windows) | Sep 04 18:15 |
schestowitz | brb phone | Sep 04 18:17 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Version of Shuttle PC Runs GNU/Linux Only http://bit.ly/CtzV2 | Sep 04 18:18 | |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: What? | Sep 04 18:20 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: also KDE for Windows is only, some of the programs ported to Windows | Sep 04 18:21 |
_Hicham_ | what are the other programs ported to Windows ? | Sep 04 18:21 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: Who cares loads anyway? Windows doesn't exactly deserve to have loads of good Linux/Unix software ported to it, plus there are plenty of Windows only programs out there, that you may be able to get working in Wine. | Sep 04 18:23 |
_Hicham_ | i think that porting Windows Libraries to Linux is the key | Sep 04 18:24 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: you mean Mono? | Sep 04 18:24 |
_Hicham_ | Mono is just .NET | Sep 04 18:24 |
_Hicham_ | I am talking about porting the whole Win32 API | Sep 04 18:24 |
_Hicham_ | then, MFC | Sep 04 18:25 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: well yes the more Windows programs that will work nicely just like that in Wine and stuff like that, the better | Sep 04 18:25 |
_Hicham_ | Wine doesn't offer good integration with the host system | Sep 04 18:25 |
_Hicham_ | programs run, but are not well integrated | Sep 04 18:25 |
sebsebseb | ideally opensource/freesoftware should mainly be used :) ,but to gain a market share, the more closed source software from the Windows World that will work on Desktop Linux properly, is a good thing | Sep 04 18:25 |
_Hicham_ | I agree | Sep 04 18:26 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Trains Best Buy Employees for Anti-GNU/Linux http://bit.ly/ZnGff http://bit.ly/45aEPo | Sep 04 18:26 | |
sebsebseb | oh you mean Windows programs, being natively ported to Linux? | Sep 04 18:26 |
_Hicham_ | yes | Sep 04 18:26 |
sebsebseb | well a lot of those companies and such are going to make excuses for why they don't make Linux versions | Sep 04 18:26 |
sebsebseb | Desktop Linux does not have enough market share, for example as an excuse | Sep 04 18:26 |
_Hicham_ | they will do if it is just a matter of recompiling | Sep 04 18:26 |
sebsebseb | so there programs working well in Wine, is better than not at all | Sep 04 18:26 |
_Hicham_ | I agree | Sep 04 18:27 |
sebsebseb | apparantly Microsoft pay or sometimes pay, games companies to make for Directx, which doesn't help | Sep 04 18:28 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: native first :) then if there isn't a good enough program for what is being done, Wine or commercial versions of it, and then Windows virtual machine, and then if no luck there say some fancy 3D Windows game or something, psyical Windows install | Sep 04 18:29 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: that's how I would do it | Sep 04 18:29 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Has "Critical", "Critical", "Critical", "Critical", and "Critical", Flaw http://bit.ly/5r8gB | Sep 04 18:30 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is Bribing Some More for People to Hype up Vista 7 http://bit.ly/SdRD1 | Sep 04 18:31 | |
schestowitz | Vista 7: piece of rubbish... nice bribes (schwag), though. | Sep 04 18:31 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: back to it: | Sep 04 18:31 |
schestowitz | Vista 7 has just one DE | Sep 04 18:31 |
schestowitz | It hardly has hooks for any | Sep 04 18:32 |
schestowitz | No screen manager like gdm or kdm | Sep 04 18:32 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah and Ubuntu with Ext4 boots up so much faster :D | Sep 04 18:32 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: remember that video I gave you the link for | Sep 04 18:33 |
schestowitz | Yes | Sep 04 18:33 |
schestowitz | League of its own | Sep 04 18:33 |
schestowitz | Not fair | Sep 04 18:33 |
schestowitz | Intel develops Linux for it | Sep 04 18:33 |
schestowitz | Windows is made by Microsoft | Sep 04 18:34 |
schestowitz | So no optimisation for h/w, hardly | Sep 04 18:34 |
schestowitz | Microsoft knows that Linux arch is ahead | Sep 04 18:34 |
schestowitz | But people are gullible | Sep 04 18:34 |
sebsebseb | yeah seems so | Sep 04 18:34 |
schestowitz | They fall for words like "streamlined", "federated", "usability", "premium", "cutting-edge", "advanced", "r&d"....... | Sep 04 18:35 |
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 04 18:35 | |
Diablo-D3 | lolol | Sep 04 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | you know what words I like? | Sep 04 18:36 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: yep most computer users not knowing much about them is half the problem, the other half being for example OEM's not making it clear to all customers, that they have a choice, not just Windows or Mac OS X, but Desktop Linux as well | Sep 04 18:36 |
Diablo-D3 | "free" | Sep 04 18:36 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: well yeah and a lot of OEM's don't pre install Desktop Linux, but that's starting to change | Sep 04 18:37 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] #Lubuntu: It Slides Through Your Circuits | Sep 04 18:37 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] first lubuntu test iso available http://blog.lxde.org/?p=514 | Sep 04 18:37 | |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: and of course loads of software that many people want to use, isn't made for Desktop Linux at the moment, because Microsoft gained most of that market in the 90's. | Sep 04 18:39 |
sebsebseb | we know about that kind of stuff, but they the average consumer, they don't, normalley | Sep 04 18:40 |
sebsebseb | and for example in most schools at the moment, people don't learn anything about Linux, at the moment, which is ashame | Sep 04 18:41 |
sebsebseb | Microsoft have made a lot of money, because of computer ignorance | Sep 04 18:41 |
sebsebseb | and vender lock in | Sep 04 18:41 |
_Hicham_ | let make money like MS did schestowitz | Sep 04 18:42 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: they do in some countries (Brazil, soon Russia) | Sep 04 18:44 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's about what customers want, not money | Sep 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Same with media companies | Sep 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Coercing customers annoys them | Sep 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | MPAA/RIAA monster is disliked by its own customers, just like with Microsoft | Sep 04 18:45 |
_Hicham_ | let us screw customers like MS do | Sep 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Good customer are those that /choose/ the product | Sep 04 18:45 |
_Hicham_ | a lot of people love MS | Sep 04 18:45 |
schestowitz | Depends where | Sep 04 18:45 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: ok, but all of the richer nations are locked into Microsoft big time :( | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | Many hate Windows | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | BSODs and stuff | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | Esp. when they see Linux and Macs | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | They get annoyed | Sep 04 18:46 |
_Hicham_ | Good customer for MS is a dumb one | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | They see they were denied choice | Sep 04 18:46 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: heh | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: yes, Microsoft is profit-driven | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | It doesn't mind Brazil all that much | Sep 04 18:46 |
schestowitz | Shareholders can't steal much from these people | Sep 04 18:46 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah hence why they have the starter edition for the developing world, where you can only run like three apps at once | Sep 04 18:46 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: and also why they mainly only care about big companies, locking them in yeah | Sep 04 18:47 |
sebsebseb | as for the consumer well | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | Microsoff doesn't give a * about poor people | Sep 04 18:47 |
sebsebseb | loads of them buy Microsoft anyway | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | Many companies don't, to be fair | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | But FS is different | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | It's made by people for people | Sep 04 18:47 |
sebsebseb | yep | Sep 04 18:47 |
_Hicham_ | FS is the future | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | Nothing to do with how wealthy one is | Sep 04 18:47 |
_Hicham_ | FS=Schestowitz | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | So it's empowering to continents like Africa | Sep 04 18:47 |
schestowitz | Though many don't realise it | Sep 04 18:48 |
_Hicham_ | FS=Full Speed | Sep 04 18:48 |
schestowitz | F* S* | Sep 04 18:48 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : Afi | Sep 04 18:49 |
sebsebseb | I would rather use software made by developers, that probably actsauly care about having me as a user | Sep 04 18:49 |
sebsebseb | and other users | Sep 04 18:49 |
_Hicham_ | Africa is not thirld world | Sep 04 18:49 |
*sanskumar has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 04 18:49 | |
sebsebseb | so Microsoft nah | Sep 04 18:49 |
sebsebseb | Apple nah | Sep 04 18:49 |
sebsebseb | Ubuntu? well I hope so | Sep 04 18:49 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: I'm R.S.S., not .F.S. | Sep 04 18:50 |
sebsebseb | Canonical do they actsaully care about the desktop users properly hmm | Sep 04 18:50 |
schestowitz | I should rename to Fred :-) | Sep 04 18:50 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: third world is defined by wealth, not culture | Sep 04 18:50 |
schestowitz | Had ethics been the yardstick, third world would be int he north | Sep 04 18:50 |
sebsebseb | yes they will make money from supourting servers and that mainly, but I guess they care about Ubuntu gaining say 20% of the desktop market as well | Sep 04 18:50 |
schestowitz | As in, less civilised men | Sep 04 18:51 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: as long as it's free (libre) | Sep 04 18:51 |
schestowitz | They have many to compete with | Sep 04 18:51 |
schestowitz | Mint is a contender | Sep 04 18:51 |
sebsebseb | some people are worried though, that if Ubuntu was to gain a very big market share, that a lot of companies would start making for only Ubuntu | Sep 04 18:51 |
schestowitz | It runs circles around them in some way | Sep 04 18:51 |
sebsebseb | and well Windows and Mac I guess as well | Sep 04 18:51 |
sebsebseb | ,but I mean they won't be making for other distros, only Ubuntu | Sep 04 18:52 |
schestowitz | There's LSB | Sep 04 18:52 |
schestowitz | They might say 'support Ubuntu", but it'll support the rest | Sep 04 18:52 |
schestowitz | *"supports | Sep 04 18:52 |
sebsebseb | well not all distros are LSB ones | Sep 04 18:52 |
schestowitz | Unless it's binary | Sep 04 18:52 |
schestowitz | Even then you have conversion tools like Alien | Sep 04 18:52 |
sebsebseb | ,but if they make for LSB, then it should work on a few distros or more | Sep 04 18:52 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: which apparantly is dangerous in Ubuntu | Sep 04 18:54 |
_Hicham_ | lsb certification doesn't mean anything | Sep 04 18:54 |
sebsebseb | _Hicham_: What about LPI? | Sep 04 18:55 |
sebsebseb | oh you meant for programs | Sep 04 18:55 |
schestowitz | That's differnet | Sep 04 18:55 |
sebsebseb | not people | Sep 04 18:55 |
schestowitz | It's training | Sep 04 18:55 |
_Hicham_ | one of the major problems between linux distros is package management | Sep 04 18:55 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux loves babies (Video) http://ping.fm/M2zLj | Sep 04 18:56 | |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz wants to have 50 babies | Sep 04 18:56 |
_Hicham_ | just like BinLaden's father | Sep 04 18:56 |
_Hicham_ | and have a lot of wives | Sep 04 18:58 |
_Hicham_ | it would be great if irc can support audio and video | Sep 04 19:02 |
_Hicham_ | I just got ubuntu jaunty | Sep 04 19:08 |
_Hicham_ | nice service | Sep 04 19:08 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Music industry talks bollocks as usual, BBC notices: how 136 were spun into 7 million http://is.gd/2T0qE http://is.gd/2T0sy | Sep 04 19:21 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Next time you see me I may have less or shorter fingers than usual. Chopping up potato with a mandolin to make a rosti! | Sep 04 19:39 | |
schestowitz | Extra, extra. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/04/wine-mesa-lubuntu/ | Sep 04 19:50 |
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cubezzz-laptop | I just realized I can't really play video above 720x480 | Sep 04 20:08 |
cubezzz-laptop | need a nice linux based media player that plays everything | Sep 04 20:09 |
schestowitz | I use kaffeine | Sep 04 20:10 |
schestowitz | kaffine.sourceforceforge iirc | Sep 04 20:10 |
schestowitz | *forge.net | Sep 04 20:11 |
MinceR | if you mean audio, audacious plays pretty much everything | Sep 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | Since 2006 | Sep 04 20:11 |
cubezzz-laptop | yeah, I was thinking as a replacement for my stand-alone dvd player | Sep 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | MinceR: he talks res | Sep 04 20:11 |
MinceR | for video, perhaps VLC | Sep 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | SO vid | Sep 04 20:11 |
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cubezzz-laptop | can't go above 720x480 on it | Sep 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | Hey, wally | Sep 04 20:11 |
wallclimber | PX00743 is in the mail | Sep 04 20:11 |
schestowitz | Cool! | Sep 04 20:12 |
wallclimber | wally? lol I like it! | Sep 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | It's like the film | Sep 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | It's shorter to type | Sep 04 20:12 |
cubezzz-laptop | this one looks interesting: http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/39141 | Sep 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | I was just going to do about 5 posts | Sep 04 20:12 |
schestowitz | Catching up and all | Sep 04 20:12 |
MinceR | http://orz.4chan.org/hr/src/1252090144166.jpg | Sep 04 20:12 |
wallclimber | you can call me anything, just don't call me late for dinner (sorry, old joke :) | Sep 04 20:12 |
MinceR | :) | Sep 04 20:12 |
MinceR | "Could you call me a cab?" "Of course Sir. You're a cab." | Sep 04 20:13 |
schestowitz | MinceR: something doesn't look right | Sep 04 20:13 |
wallclimber | so...how do you get to Carnagie Hall? | Sep 04 20:13 |
MinceR | call a cab. | Sep 04 20:13 |
wallclimber | (practice, practice, practic) | Sep 04 20:13 |
MinceR | oh. | Sep 04 20:14 |
schestowitz | Oh, I get it... he has more wrinkles than in reality | Sep 04 20:14 |
schestowitz | I knew there was something funny in that pic | Sep 04 20:14 |
wallclimber | what pic? | Sep 04 20:14 |
MinceR | i doubt that someone edited some additional wrinkles on it | Sep 04 20:14 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: 4chan | Sep 04 20:14 |
schestowitz | humour | Sep 04 20:14 |
wallclimber | i never go there | Sep 04 20:14 |
schestowitz | The URL does worry a bit | Sep 04 20:14 |
Diablo-D3 | http://vruz.tumblr.com/post/179794423/good-lord-that-brothas-turning-into-some-kind-of | Sep 04 20:15 |
schestowitz | Could be one of those gaotses from /. | Sep 04 20:15 |
wallclimber | i'm too grumpy for humour, and i intend to stay grumpy lol | Sep 04 20:15 |
schestowitz | Humour is good | Sep 04 20:15 |
schestowitz | It's deviating from expectation | Sep 04 20:15 |
wallclimber | not when you're grumpy | Sep 04 20:15 |
schestowitz | Depends | Sep 04 20:15 |
wallclimber | (just kidding) | Sep 04 20:16 |
cubezzz-laptop | Sagan was a good popularizer of Astronomy | Sep 04 20:16 |
wallclimber | do you ever read the Maxine cards? she is soooo me | Sep 04 20:16 |
cubezzz-laptop | been a long time since I've watched Cosmos | Sep 04 20:16 |
schestowitz | I'm still watching Cosmas | Sep 04 20:16 |
schestowitz | Episode 8 now | Sep 04 20:16 |
schestowitz | It's not astrology | Sep 04 20:16 |
wallclimber | the old Carl Sagan series? | Sep 04 20:16 |
schestowitz | It's also chemistry, biology, science in general... | Sep 04 20:16 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: yeah, it's all on YouTube | Sep 04 20:17 |
wallclimber | i used to watch that with my son | Sep 04 20:17 |
wallclimber | i'm glad it's available online | Sep 04 20:17 |
schestowitz | Now kids are taught that the Grand Canyon is no more than 6000 yrs old | Sep 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | I guess those craters are there just "to test our faith" | Sep 04 20:18 |
wallclimber | meh...most kids are smarter than that, don't you think? | Sep 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | Or rather the volcanic-imposed landscape | Sep 04 20:18 |
cubezzz-laptop | not to mention the trilobite fossils :) | Sep 04 20:18 |
DaemonFC | doh! | Sep 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | Not sure if it had many asteroids/comets hit it | Sep 04 20:18 |
DaemonFC | I found out why 2.6.31-rc8 didn't recognize my webcam | Sep 04 20:18 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: most kids are not, I worry | Sep 04 20:19 |
DaemonFC | someone moved "multimedia devices" to a different section and disabled it by default :P | Sep 04 20:19 |
schestowitz | Fairy tale is more appealing | Sep 04 20:19 |
wallclimber | why do you say that? | Sep 04 20:19 |
cubezzz-laptop | In Canada we have David Suzuki to popularize science | Sep 04 20:19 |
schestowitz | Then you seek justifications | Sep 04 20:19 |
schestowitz | Like for slavery that's self-serving | Sep 04 20:19 |
schestowitz | Or proprietary software | Sep 04 20:19 |
schestowitz | Or Vista | Sep 04 20:19 |
schestowitz | Like that cartoon with the spiky chair | Sep 04 20:19 |
cubezzz-laptop | we have a new type of slave nowadays: The mind slave | Sep 04 20:19 |
cubezzz-laptop | people are mind slaves to Microsoft | Sep 04 20:20 |
schestowitz | I recently heard of Suzuki for some reason | Sep 04 20:20 |
schestowitz | Did he die or something? | Sep 04 20:20 |
schestowitz | I can't recall now, but something major happened with Suzuki | Sep 04 20:20 |
cubezzz-laptop | I don't think so | Sep 04 20:20 |
wallclimber | i've found most kids (to me that's anyone under 40 :) are pretty smart these days | Sep 04 20:20 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 20:20 | |
wallclimber | a lot of teachers are dingbats though | Sep 04 20:20 |
cubezzz-laptop | information is easier to get now, yes | Sep 04 20:20 |
schestowitz | Yes | Sep 04 20:21 |
schestowitz | Also disinfo | Sep 04 20:21 |
schestowitz | That's the problem | Sep 04 20:21 |
schestowitz | Like the whole UFO obsession | Sep 04 20:21 |
cubezzz-laptop | wikipedia says he's 73, wow | Sep 04 20:21 |
cubezzz-laptop | didn't realize he was that old | Sep 04 20:21 |
cubezzz-laptop | schestowitz, I saw a UFO! :) | Sep 04 20:21 |
wallclimber | personally, i think there's a huge push these days to make everyone believe they are stupid. I hate it. | Sep 04 20:22 |
cubezzz-laptop | only one time though | Sep 04 20:22 |
wallclimber | maybe if they are told they are stupid often enough they will believe it | Sep 04 20:22 |
cubezzz-laptop | I'm sorry but people are computer stupid still | Sep 04 20:22 |
cubezzz-laptop | sadly | Sep 04 20:22 |
wallclimber | people are just different, and they learn at dofferent levels and speeds, but eventually, they do learn | Sep 04 20:23 |
MinceR | not all people do | Sep 04 20:23 |
wallclimber | they are only computer stupid because they've been taught to be...we do learn eventually | Sep 04 20:23 |
wallclimber | it's funny, i've had people my age ask me to help them with their computers, because their kids just treat them like they are stupid and it embarrasses them | Sep 04 20:24 |
cubezzz-laptop | you could say a lot of people don't reach their full potential | Sep 04 20:24 |
wallclimber | they just learn differently than kids do | Sep 04 20:24 |
DaemonFC | I don't have a problem with proprietary software in itself, it's not like every proprietary software company has some evil ulterior motive (other than getting paid and paying their employees) | Sep 04 20:24 |
cubezzz-laptop | some older ones (I'm talking over 80) are actually pretty good on computers | Sep 04 20:25 |
DaemonFC | what I don't like are DRM and companies that hoard old programs that aren't even useful to them anymore | Sep 04 20:25 |
cubezzz-laptop | not many I admit | Sep 04 20:25 |
DaemonFC | stuff they did 10 years ago that will never make any more money and wouldn't even tip off any trade secrets about their new stuff | Sep 04 20:25 |
wallclimber | well, depending on how you judge "full potential", some might say the same for me, because i spent the first 42 years of my life raising kids | Sep 04 20:25 |
wallclimber | i didn't even touch a computer until i was over 40. | Sep 04 20:26 |
cubezzz-laptop | XP caches a lot of crap I noticed | Sep 04 20:26 |
cubezzz-laptop | wallclimber, now old are you now? | Sep 04 20:26 |
wallclimber | maybe our full potential doesn't get reached, ever...we just grow until we die... | Sep 04 20:26 |
DaemonFC | free software works when you wants something to be incredibly popular and have lots of developers even though it might not make you any money at the moment | Sep 04 20:26 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: I know, I know.... the UFO | Sep 04 20:26 |
DaemonFC | it's how things like Linux and Firefox get off the ground without huge companies behind them and billions of dollars to work on it themselves | Sep 04 20:27 |
wallclimber | hey...it ain't polite to ask a girl her age...but i'm 60-ish... | Sep 04 20:27 |
wallclimber | give or take a few years | Sep 04 20:27 |
cubezzz-laptop | ah, ok :) | Sep 04 20:27 |
wallclimber | so, my potential hasn't been reached yet | Sep 04 20:28 |
*Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-zfmsusxxsplxikiv) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 04 20:28 | |
schestowitz | The human race is about 150k years old | Sep 04 20:28 |
schestowitz | We're very young | Sep 04 20:28 |
DaemonFC | It benefits Firefox because the only real money they take in is whatever Google and Yahoo pay them or maybe if someone bus a t-shirt | Sep 04 20:28 |
cubezzz-laptop | I'm hoping to reach 200 :) | Sep 04 20:28 |
schestowitz | Generation-based view anyway | Sep 04 20:28 |
wallclimber | i hope you reach 200 too! and have every day a healthy one | Sep 04 20:28 |
DaemonFC | it doesn't work for Opera because what they have works well on mobile phones and devices and open sourcing it would just make them compete with themselves | Sep 04 20:28 |
schestowitz | Let's see if advancement makes us more (or less) resilient than those mighty multi-tonne lizards | Sep 04 20:29 |
DaemonFC | but you'll notice there's no proprietary extensions in Opera's rendering engine, no DRM | Sep 04 20:29 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: I seem to be in OK shape | Sep 04 20:29 |
DaemonFC | nothing that forces you to install it | Sep 04 20:29 |
wallclimber | multi-ton lizards? you mean Microsoft? | Sep 04 20:29 |
schestowitz | My eyesight is still the best in my family | Sep 04 20:29 |
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schestowitz | No tooth fillings, ever | Sep 04 20:29 |
cubezzz-laptop | I'm over 40 now, I gave up a lot of things: pizza, pretty much all fast food | Sep 04 20:29 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: same... | Sep 04 20:30 |
schestowitz | Let me find the picture | Sep 04 20:30 |
schestowitz | Microsoft as dino.. | Sep 04 20:30 |
wallclimber | well, i've always been active and healthy, but time does make some changes you won't be able to control | Sep 04 20:30 |
schestowitz | http://www.mealldubh.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/dino.png | Sep 04 20:30 |
cubezzz-laptop | the interesting thing is a lot of Linux peeps are vegetarians which surprised me | Sep 04 20:30 |
schestowitz | Ironically, Microsoft used dinos to characterise others | Sep 04 20:30 |
schestowitz | Hypocrites | Sep 04 20:30 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Hi all, | Sep 04 20:31 |
wallclimber | i have a cartoon with Microsoft as a big dinosour...i should dig that up, it was a hoot | Sep 04 20:31 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: we're all lucky to be alive in the first place | Sep 04 20:31 |
schestowitz | It's we who were the lucky ones | Sep 04 20:31 |
schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: what's up? | Sep 04 20:31 |
schestowitz | Seen Nick's latest? | Sep 04 20:32 |
schestowitz | He's very shameless. | Sep 04 20:32 |
schestowitz | I might drop the RSS feed if it weren't so amusing | Sep 04 20:32 |
schestowitz | I always scroll down | Sep 04 20:32 |
Chips_B_Malroy | I believe MS-Watch is censoring comments, have had 2 comments that have never been posted. One had a link to BN too | Sep 04 20:32 |
schestowitz | I hope to find your comments there | Sep 04 20:32 |
schestowitz | How long ago was it? | Sep 04 20:32 |
schestowitz | Maybe he got fed up | Sep 04 20:32 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Thk's Roy | Sep 04 20:32 |
Chips_B_Malroy | The one with the link to BN should have been up today. So it won't be up until Monday, as nobody at MS Watch checks those on the weekend. If it come up. | Sep 04 20:34 |
Chips_B_Malroy | As you know, I don't every use any profanity in my posts | Sep 04 20:34 |
Chips_B_Malroy | so that is not a reason | Sep 04 20:34 |
Chips_B_Malroy | The other post was a awhile back, where Jessie Meats and the shills commented. I made a comment about Jess not using a disclaimer, and that was illegal with the FTC. It wasn't a nasty comment, but it never got posted as well | Sep 04 20:35 |
_goblin | hi chips! | Sep 04 20:36 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Hey, I posted also a link in Nicks latest to your article, Goblin, maybe it comes out today | Sep 04 20:37 |
cubezzz-laptop | I started using computers in the late 70's, before that I could look at computers but had no access | Sep 04 20:37 |
cubezzz-laptop | my high school got PET's in 1980, in 1979 I used punch cards :) | Sep 04 20:38 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, I posted your link, on MS watch with the comment "great minds think alike" so as to get the comment posted. | Sep 04 20:39 |
Chips_B_Malroy | so don't take offense | Sep 04 20:39 |
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_goblin | lol... | Sep 04 20:39 |
_goblin | Ive just posted a comment there linking it too! | Sep 04 20:39 |
_goblin | great minds obviously do... | Sep 04 20:39 |
Chips_B_Malroy | trying to humor Nick a little, so he won't censor most of my comments | Sep 04 20:39 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: What can I expect from a government that hired a woman who got a "degree" from a diploma mill operating out of a roadside motel room for six figures a year to head the IT department at Homeland Security? | Sep 04 20:40 |
Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> higher taxes at some point | Sep 04 20:40 |
DaemonFC | one of the scandals of the Bush years and it was eclipsed by all his other wrongdoings | Sep 04 20:41 |
cubezzz-laptop | The Bush years will be known in the future as the 2nd Dark Ages :) | Sep 04 20:42 |
DaemonFC | http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/25/eveningnews/consumer/main565236.shtml | Sep 04 20:42 |
Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> Bush is over, best to move on | Sep 04 20:42 |
DaemonFC | Keith Olbermann is too optimistic when he says the Bush years will someday be known as "Why daddy went to prison" | Sep 04 20:43 |
schestowitz | LOL | Sep 04 20:43 |
schestowitz | Or why uncle Sam went to war | Sep 04 20:44 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I prefer sending them to the electric chair, but that's me | Sep 04 20:44 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 04 20:44 |
schestowitz | Bush and his apocalyptic story did not impress Chirac | Sep 04 20:44 |
cubezzz-laptop | they wasted a TON of money | Sep 04 20:44 |
cubezzz-laptop | Pizza Huts in Iraq? | Sep 04 20:44 |
ThistleWeb | George & Sadaam, the glory years | Sep 04 20:44 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: they have pools | Sep 04 20:44 |
schestowitz | In the bases | Sep 04 20:45 |
schestowitz | Half a billion or so spent on one base | Sep 04 20:45 |
schestowitz | Which means there's no intention of leaving | Sep 04 20:45 |
DaemonFC | Tom Ridge was on the Rachel Maddow show the other night, repeating the Bush/Cheney lies of "Blame the spies" for Iraq, but said we'd ultimately be vindicated when there was democracy in Iraq | Sep 04 20:45 |
schestowitz | It's long-term occupation in strategic places at least | Sep 04 20:45 |
ThistleWeb | it wasn't wasted, it went to where it was always intended to go.....into the pockets of Bush's backers | Sep 04 20:45 |
cubezzz-laptop | it makes you wonder what is really going on | Sep 04 20:45 |
DaemonFC | Maddow replied something like "So you're trying to retroactively sell us the Iraq War, 4,000 dead American soldiers, and trillions of dollars spent to bring democracy to Iraq?" | Sep 04 20:45 |
schestowitz | It's not as though they'll say one day, "Ok lads, we're taking off back to the US... here are the keys.. enjoy the cinema and the swimming pools" | Sep 04 20:46 |
DaemonFC | he spent the rest of the interview tripping over himself and babbling | Sep 04 20:46 |
cubezzz-laptop | schestowitz, yeah | Sep 04 20:46 |
DaemonFC | they're saying he may run for president in 2012 | Sep 04 20:46 |
DaemonFC | he's weak and ineffectual even by Republican standards, so I hope he does | Sep 04 20:46 |
ThistleWeb | it would be an interesting hypothetical discussion to wonder what would have happened in the run up to the war in Iraq, if the US had proper news networks, with proper journalists holding the politicians feet to the flames over half-answers and vague responses | Sep 04 20:47 |
Chips_B_Malroy | <schestowitz> Which means there's no intention of leaving" We still have bases in Germany, in this regard, the US is not too much different than the former Soviet Union was. But mostly the German Gov wants us to stay and spend money there, some would say | Sep 04 20:48 |
cubezzz-laptop | I think we have a US base in Canada too | Sep 04 20:48 |
ThistleWeb | one part of the plan was to get bases in the region, after it became awkward to stay in Saudi | Sep 04 20:48 |
DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNs7Zpqo98&feature=player_embedded | Sep 04 20:48 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Kuiwait of course has bases | Sep 04 20:49 |
ThistleWeb | they want a presence next foor to Iran to help bring the threat of force to the table | Sep 04 20:49 |
Chips_B_Malroy | so the ones in Iraq are less needed | Sep 04 20:49 |
ThistleWeb | like any peace loving nation | Sep 04 20:49 |
cubezzz-laptop | NATO bases | Sep 04 20:50 |
cubezzz-laptop | so the Russkies don't get us :) | Sep 04 20:50 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Nato bases are almost the same thing, as most of Nato's forces are composed of | Sep 04 20:51 |
cubezzz-laptop | the world seems more peaceful since WWII I suppose | Sep 04 20:51 |
cubezzz-laptop | always some war going on though | Sep 04 20:51 |
ThistleWeb | on the surface yes | Sep 04 20:51 |
Chips_B_Malroy | it cost a lot of money, we have to borrow to support these military forces | Sep 04 20:52 |
Chips_B_Malroy | more and more, every military action must be approved almost by the Chinese | Sep 04 20:53 |
ThistleWeb | like every war, the victor writes the history books | Sep 04 20:53 |
Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Sep 04 20:53 |
ThistleWeb | the victor often controls the telling of the story | Sep 04 20:53 |
ThistleWeb | which parts get glossed over | Sep 04 20:54 |
ThistleWeb | which parts get exagerated | Sep 04 20:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The TCP/IP Drinking Game http://valerieaurora.org/tcpip.html ideal questions for your next job interview candidate | Sep 04 20:54 | |
ThistleWeb | so any battles still ongoing can be ignored in the media | Sep 04 20:54 |
ThistleWeb | if the victors are the aggressors | Sep 04 20:54 |
ThistleWeb | when they're found out, the media will portray them as patroits | Sep 04 20:54 |
_goblin | just installing Glora onto a Dell laptop for a friend......one more user to the Linux base! | Sep 04 20:55 |
Chips_B_Malroy | So, I know most of you are from Europe, so I ask, if the economy falls competely apart here in the USA, and the military has to be cut to the bone, who will step in as the world's policeman? Is one even needed? | Sep 04 20:55 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Goblin, your lady still using Mepis or something else now? | Sep 04 20:56 |
ThistleWeb | unfortunatly, every countyr around the world is dependant on the US ecconomy, so if it collapses, so will theirs | Sep 04 20:56 |
ThistleWeb | it'll bring us down to the same level as other failed states we've been abusing for decades | Sep 04 20:57 |
Chips_B_Malroy | maybe not as long term | Sep 04 20:57 |
ThistleWeb | the US is a dual role remember, it's the world police as well as the world bully | Sep 04 20:57 |
Chips_B_Malroy | its not as dependant as it was either | Sep 04 20:57 |
ThistleWeb | so we'll have a different set of problems when the US collapses | Sep 04 20:57 |
Chips_B_Malroy | True, its can be a bully when the person in charge makes bad decisions | Sep 04 20:58 |
ThistleWeb | it'll also reap the whirlwind it's sewn for itself | Sep 04 20:58 |
ThistleWeb | right now it can throw a fortune at defense | Sep 04 20:58 |
ThistleWeb | when that money runs out | Sep 04 20:58 |
Chips_B_Malroy | electing bad leaders is a problem for any country | Sep 04 20:58 |
ThistleWeb | it is yes | Sep 04 20:59 |
DaemonFC | well, there are bad leaders in every country | Sep 04 20:59 |
wallclimber | as the big businesses crumble, the smaller businesses might have a chance to grow. the transition will be most uncomfortable, but i think it needs to happen | Sep 04 20:59 |
DaemonFC | because there are election laws that let a group of extremists in certain places get the bad guys over the fence and into the government | Sep 04 20:59 |
Chips_B_Malroy | sadly if you look at most of the western industrial countries, they have all been influenced to some degree by the special interests | Sep 04 21:00 |
DaemonFC | Bush was not the president of the United States, he was the president of less than half of them | Sep 04 21:00 |
DaemonFC | so the way things work now, weight has been unduly given to hicks out in the middle of nowhere | Sep 04 21:00 |
ThistleWeb | one big problem with poltics in every country is the obsession by the media (and the politicians who play the media) to try to divide, left and right | Sep 04 21:00 |
ThistleWeb | far left and far right are both as damaging | Sep 04 21:00 |
ThistleWeb | neither is a solution | Sep 04 21:00 |
DaemonFC | he was the president of Texas, of Arkansas, of Wyoming, of Louisiana, Alabama..... | Sep 04 21:01 |
wallclimber | Thistleweb, don't you think both extremes will eventually cancel each other out? | Sep 04 21:01 |
DaemonFC | pretty much all the most backwards states | Sep 04 21:01 |
ThistleWeb | some things need to be more right wing, while others need more left wing. It's about getting a balance | Sep 04 21:01 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: you sure have US bases in Canada | Sep 04 21:01 |
Chips_B_Malroy | I look at candidates that support the freedom of the people | Sep 04 21:01 |
DaemonFC | we need election reform in the way of the national popular vote | Sep 04 21:01 |
schestowitz | The US has over a thousand around the world | Sep 04 21:01 |
ThistleWeb | wallclimber: ideally yes, but they won't, they'll drag others into their extreme views | Sep 04 21:01 |
schestowitz | 7 hundred and something that it publicly discloses | Sep 04 21:01 |
DaemonFC | or else states with 600,000 people will still keep dictating from the minority | Sep 04 21:02 |
schestowitz | Some are disguised, e.g. as RAF based in the UK | Sep 04 21:02 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google — Like Mozilla — Sheds Off Some Microsoft Impact http://ping.fm/zi1nx | Sep 04 21:02 | |
Chips_B_Malroy | Ron Paul was ok in that reqard, but unelectable with his stance on Iran for most people here | Sep 04 21:02 |
cubezzz-laptop | ok, I'm wrong, we have NATO bases, not US bases | Sep 04 21:02 |
ThistleWeb | the problem with even the reform politicians is that they believe the system actually works and just needs tweaking to their agenda | Sep 04 21:02 |
ThistleWeb | not one of them has spotted the real problem, the system does not work | Sep 04 21:03 |
cubezzz-laptop | not US army bases anyway | Sep 04 21:03 |
DaemonFC | the reform politicians are usually jusr Republicans on steroids | Sep 04 21:03 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: usually in these conditions it's the opposite. Big biz sweeps up the small ones | Sep 04 21:03 |
schestowitz | No VCs | Sep 04 21:03 |
ThistleWeb | so all their policies are nothing more than submitting a deckchair seating plan for the Titanic | Sep 04 21:03 |
DaemonFC | the so called Libertarians nominated Bob Barr, a Republican, who signed the PATRIOT Act in 2008 | Sep 04 21:03 |
ThistleWeb | rearrange them all they want, the ship is still sinking | Sep 04 21:03 |
DaemonFC | if that doesn't tell you who they really are, nothing will | Sep 04 21:04 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Ralph Nader was ok, but unelectable | Sep 04 21:04 |
ThistleWeb | they dont want to change the system too much, because they want to exploit it for their own aims | Sep 04 21:04 |
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DaemonFC | and I'm glad that there's a lot of minor far right wing parties, because in our current system, that could siphon over a million votes from the Republican candidate | Sep 04 21:04 |
Chips_B_Malroy | and the Democrat what was his name, Co something, seemed to have some ideas | Sep 04 21:04 |
schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: but Nader as I understand it has always been not 'permissible' | Sep 04 21:05 |
wallclimber | not necessarily so. if the big companies crumble they aren't going to be buying up smaller businesses. humans are naturally inventive and they are survivors | Sep 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | I.e. not a shill to enough higher motives | Sep 04 21:05 |
ThistleWeb | what we have now in the UK and US are mainstream parties who don't represent the normal person, but they have normal everyday peeps convinced otherwise | Sep 04 21:05 |
DaemonFC | Democrats have always been disorganized to the point of letting neoconservatives dictate from the minority | Sep 04 21:05 |
Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Sep 04 21:05 |
DaemonFC | we're the biggest political party in the US | Sep 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: let's hope so | Sep 04 21:05 |
wallclimber | if the big trees topple, there'll be sunlight for the smaller plants to grow | Sep 04 21:05 |
DaemonFC | 20 million stronger than the Republicans | Sep 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | See what happened to the Sun | Sep 04 21:05 |
cubezzz-laptop | I really want to see the green party get a least one seat in Canada | Sep 04 21:05 |
schestowitz | It ran out of energy | Sep 04 21:05 |
DaemonFC | the far right wing parties siphon another million from the Republicans | Sep 04 21:06 |
DaemonFC | so we're actually about 21 million stronger and can still lose? | Sep 04 21:06 |
Chips_B_Malroy | a true reformer will run into the rage of both parties | Sep 04 21:06 |
DaemonFC | that's a problem | Sep 04 21:06 |
Diablo-D3 | [04:12:47] <DaemonFC> the so called Libertarians nominated Bob Barr, a Republican, who signed the PATRIOT Act in 2008 | Sep 04 21:06 |
Diablo-D3 | except | Sep 04 21:06 |
Chips_B_Malroy | yes DaemonFC, thats true | Sep 04 21:06 |
Diablo-D3 | one small problem | Sep 04 21:06 |
ThistleWeb | wallclimber: unfortunately, when the big companies go under, they do so oweing a LOT of money to other small companies for different services, many of whom rely on that money to make ends meet, and won't even get a look in from the liquidators who will favour other large companies first until the cash runs out | Sep 04 21:07 |
cubezzz-laptop | we have conservatives, liberals, NDP, Bloc and Greens | Sep 04 21:07 |
cubezzz-laptop | Greens never get seats though | Sep 04 21:07 |
Chips_B_Malroy | except, I think he later said it was a bad thing | Sep 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | it's a problem especially when Republican groups break the law to try to deny Democratic voters the right to vote | Sep 04 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | he became a Libertarian a couple years back | Sep 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | by lying to them in mailers about when election day is | Sep 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | posing as the state Democratic Party | Sep 04 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | and he voted for a version of the patriot act with sunset clauses | Sep 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | or when Republican groups go to Democratic rallies and vandalize cars | Sep 04 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | something he pushed for | Sep 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | these Republicans are organized thugs | Sep 04 21:07 |
DaemonFC | it's all they know how to do | Sep 04 21:08 |
Diablo-D3 | in other words | Sep 04 21:08 |
ThistleWeb | that small (from the large corp viewpoint) outstanding debt, may well be 6 months incomings to the small corp who cant afford not to be paid in full without going out of business | Sep 04 21:08 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Gah! Some classicish music in the documentary about Blackadder on BBC in the castle in Northumberland, what is it!? | Sep 04 21:08 | |
Diablo-D3 | many major parts of the patriot act _will_ end thanks to bob barr | Sep 04 21:08 |
Chips_B_Malroy | There was a time when the Republicians did not seem so bad | Sep 04 21:08 |
*Diablo-D3 shoots down DaemonFC's entire troll | Sep 04 21:08 | |
Diablo-D3 | epic fail there, dude | Sep 04 21:08 |
wallclimber | ThistleWeb, that's true, but until the old is gone there's no way to predict what new things will grow...just saying, it will surely get ugly (just look back at the more extreme times in history), but there's no way to know how it | Sep 04 21:08 |
DaemonFC | the Republicans basically absorbed all the racists in the south | Sep 04 21:08 |
wallclimber | will change things | Sep 04 21:08 |
DaemonFC | once the Democrats moved to end segregation | Sep 04 21:08 |
DaemonFC | and pass the voting rights act | Sep 04 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: absorbed? you're kidding, right? | Sep 04 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | the republican party was STARTED by wasps! | Sep 04 21:09 |
DaemonFC | the intolerant bigots in the south used to vote for the Democrats | Sep 04 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | the republican party was started by rich white catholics who hated non-whites and non-christians | Sep 04 21:09 |
DaemonFC | they changed in the mid 60s right after the Democrats got the voting rights act passed and ended racial segregation | Sep 04 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | and they hated poor people too | Sep 04 21:09 |
ThistleWeb | wallclimber: true, when the big companies go down, they'll take plenty of small companies with them, but in most cases the demand for services and products will still exist to be filled by others | Sep 04 21:09 |
DaemonFC | and started voting Republican | Sep 04 21:09 |
Diablo-D3 | if you're black, jewish, and/or poor, and you're a republican, YOU'RE A WALKING OXYMORON | Sep 04 21:10 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: so shut the fuck up, dude | Sep 04 21:10 |
Diablo-D3 | you're bad at trolling pro-microsoft, you're worst at trolling pro-bush | Sep 04 21:10 |
wallclimber | that's right. that's what's happened to me. my small (and i do mean small) business is busier than it's ever been | Sep 04 21:10 |
DaemonFC | the Democrats used to be the party trying to squash minorities | Sep 04 21:10 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: thats how it always works | Sep 04 21:10 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: this is why the majority of my investments are in small cap companies | Sep 04 21:10 |
ThistleWeb | although the 20th century media corp collapse will put a LOT of people onto the unemployment queue, as the demand for their niche evaporates, rather than is replaced | Sep 04 21:10 |
wallclimber | i'm getting work from other small businesses that don't want to pay the high prices of big ad agencies anymore | Sep 04 21:10 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: they're the most profitable for me | Sep 04 21:11 |
DaemonFC | after they changed, there was a split and the "Dixiecrats" formed their own parties and ran their own candidates on a pro-segregation platform | Sep 04 21:11 |
DaemonFC | and were eventually absorbed by the Republicans | Sep 04 21:11 |
Chips_B_Malroy | They suckered a lot of people in with the talk of small government, and less laws and red tape | Sep 04 21:11 |
wallclimber | the "mom & pop" companies will come into their own again...maybe not soon, but it'll happen | Sep 04 21:11 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: When did I say anything pro-Bush? | Sep 04 21:11 |
DaemonFC | do you just not understand me? | Sep 04 21:12 |
cubezzz-laptop | I hope so wallclimber | Sep 04 21:12 |
Diablo-D3 | you're claiming bob barr is a secret RINOINO or some shit | Sep 04 21:12 |
wallclimber | i hope so too... | Sep 04 21:12 |
DaemonFC | Bob Barr is basically Bush Concentrate | Sep 04 21:12 |
Chips_B_Malroy | then Bush can in, and they became the party of war, spending, and controlling what you did, even online poker was illegal | Sep 04 21:12 |
ThistleWeb | wallclimber: I wouldn't hold much breath for this while the system stays as it is, a 2 party state both owned by the corps who will do anything to continue creaming it in | Sep 04 21:12 |
DaemonFC | you could water him down 50% and still not get Bush | Sep 04 21:12 |
DaemonFC | lol | Sep 04 21:12 |
DaemonFC | I usually call him Boob Bar | Sep 04 21:13 |
cubezzz-laptop | Bush Concentrate, lol that sounds uber bad | Sep 04 21:13 |
DaemonFC | Mister "I took away your freedom, now I wanna give it back, honest!" | Sep 04 21:13 |
wallclimber | that's true, ThistleWeb, but I'm looking past that. They will be gone, eventually. not soon enough, i know, but they'll go down | Sep 04 21:13 |
ThistleWeb | no doubt, but they'll take the country down with them | Sep 04 21:13 |
wallclimber | they'll be very very ugly on the way down though | Sep 04 21:14 |
ThistleWeb | then blame others | Sep 04 21:14 |
wallclimber | yes, they'll blame and scream... | Sep 04 21:14 |
ThistleWeb | these are not honorable people just trying to make a buck | Sep 04 21:14 |
wallclimber | it won't be an easy time, but the pendulum always swings back after a while | Sep 04 21:15 |
ThistleWeb | these are greedy bastards who see only their own power and money | Sep 04 21:15 |
wallclimber | even greedy bastards meet their end | Sep 04 21:15 |
cubezzz-laptop | how long before Microsoft loses control over PCs do you think? | Sep 04 21:15 |
ThistleWeb | anything or anyone who gets in their way is fair game | Sep 04 21:15 |
wallclimber | history's full of them | Sep 04 21:15 |
ThistleWeb | wallclimber: yes it is, it's also full of once powerful nations which no longer exist | Sep 04 21:16 |
DaemonFC | the "reform" candidates are the paranoid illuminati conspiracy theorists like Ron Paul, and the anti-Bill of Rights Bob Barr | Sep 04 21:16 |
wallclimber | yes, that's something that people tend to forget | Sep 04 21:16 |
*DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 04 21:16 | |
wallclimber | the USA will lose its power someday | Sep 04 21:17 |
Chips_B_Malroy | <cubezzz-laptop> how long before Microsoft loses control over PCs do you think?" A great question. I going say 5 years. Because, I am reling on Ballmer who said that MS could waste 10% of their profits on Bling/silverlight. | Sep 04 21:17 |
wallclimber | like microsoft, it needs some humility | Sep 04 21:17 |
ThistleWeb | all across Europe, leaders paid the price for their greed, in revolutions | Sep 04 21:17 |
Chips_B_Malroy | 5 years M$ becomes unprofitable, from its two cash cows | Sep 04 21:17 |
wallclimber | only 5 years? | Sep 04 21:18 |
ThistleWeb | the British Empire is almost bankrupt for the same reasons, and has to hang onto the US coat tails to get its way on some things | Sep 04 21:18 |
wallclimber | (I was hoping for 6 months) | Sep 04 21:18 |
wallclimber | i think steve ballmer was the best thing to hit microsoft | Sep 04 21:19 |
wallclimber | he'll do his best to kill the company | Sep 04 21:19 |
ThistleWeb | I wonder if his obsession with beating Google will kill MS | Sep 04 21:19 |
ThistleWeb | as they pump more and more money into stuff that don't work | Sep 04 21:20 |
wallclimber | i'm hoping they keep him so he can go down with the MS ship | Sep 04 21:20 |
he means 5 years ago -> Chips_B_Malroy: 5 years M$ becomes unprofitable | Sep 04 21:20 | |
cubezzz-laptop | Ballmer does seem crazy | Sep 04 21:20 |
wallclimber | ballmer is creepy | Sep 04 21:20 |
Over the last 5 years or so, M$ has squandered more than $40 in cash reserves. | Sep 04 21:21 | |
ThistleWeb | give it another year, by that time we'll see if they've fooled people with the emperors new y-fronts (windows 7) or whether the masses still see he's starkers (vista) | Sep 04 21:21 |
wallclimber | well, it's time for me to put the mouse down and step away from the computer and go fire up the grill...cooking burgers and steaks tonight...got beer and my special iced tea too...everyone's welcome | Sep 04 21:21 |
now, they are taking on debt. | Sep 04 21:21 | |
have vun. | Sep 04 21:21 | |
wallclimber | have a good weekend everyone | Sep 04 21:22 |
ThistleWeb | they're reliant much more than ever on Windows 7 turning a profit | Sep 04 21:22 |
cubezzz-laptop | how much are they selling windows 7 for? | Sep 04 21:22 |
ThistleWeb | cya wallclimber | Sep 04 21:22 |
wallclimber | :o) | Sep 04 21:22 |
burgers sounds great. I'm afraid you are too far away for me to drop by. | Sep 04 21:22 | |
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 04 21:22 | |
ThistleWeb | cubezzz: I've heard it's slightly less than vista | Sep 04 21:22 |
$10 to whatever you are dumb enough to pay. | Sep 04 21:22 | |
ThistleWeb | but it'll vary as usual on the area | Sep 04 21:23 |
They had the nerve to ask Best Buy employees for $10, ha ha. | Sep 04 21:23 | |
The DVD cost them less than a quarter, so they can dump it as cheap as they like. | Sep 04 21:24 | |
schestowitz | Has anyone ever seen this type of money? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/1047214_monkey_1.jpg | Sep 04 21:26 |
schestowitz | *monkey | Sep 04 21:26 |
cubezzz-laptop | schestowitz, yes | Sep 04 21:27 |
schestowitz | It must be talking like a dick | Sep 04 21:29 |
cubezzz-laptop | is any retailer selling linux cds? I only see them in chapters on magazines | Sep 04 21:29 |
schestowitz | They must be extinct | Sep 04 21:29 |
schestowitz | I found it when looking for mono (monkey) pictures | Sep 04 21:30 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Where u at Wallclimber, i be right over for the burgers and beer | Sep 04 21:30 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: he looks so sad. We are destorying them | Sep 04 21:31 |
schestowitz | GEnocide against our cousins the monkeys (with the common ancestors) | Sep 04 21:31 |
schestowitz | ANd putting them in cages | Sep 04 21:31 |
schestowitz | :-( :-( | Sep 04 21:31 |
Chips_B_Malroy | <cubezzz-laptop> is any retailer selling linux cds? " cheapbytes | Sep 04 21:32 |
cubezzz-laptop | schestowitz, Proboscis Monkey is considered endangered, yes | Sep 04 21:32 |
_goblin | Im not happy with Tuxmachines linking the Ubuntutards site.... | Sep 04 21:33 |
_goblin | it stinks of linsux..... | Sep 04 21:33 |
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Chips_B_Malroy | I wish more could be found out on who is behind Linsux, they done a good job hiding their tracks. I bet its M$ behind them | Sep 04 21:35 |
sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: hmm? | Sep 04 21:37 |
Chips_B_Malroy | What worries me about MS failing eventually, is they will use the "too big to fail" excuse and have us taxpayers bail them out down the road | Sep 04 21:37 |
sebsebseb | Linus Torvalds | Sep 04 21:37 |
_goblin | I personally think many of the Wintrolls are simply proprietary supporters who don't like the FOSS model and whose jobs depend on MS products. | Sep 04 21:37 |
cubezzz-laptop | the linsux folks seem to like OpenSUSE | Sep 04 21:38 |
_goblin | that comes as no surprise.... | Sep 04 21:38 |
cubezzz-laptop | I'm surprised that people are really against FOSS | Sep 04 21:38 |
cubezzz-laptop | Gates and Ballmer are one thing, but... | Sep 04 21:39 |
Chips_B_Malroy | They are against Foss for the reasons Goblin stated, money. Not to be religous here, but Money is the root of all evil | Sep 04 21:40 |
ziggyfish | Chips_B_Malroy: it looks to me to be FreeBSD guys | Sep 04 21:40 |
cubezzz-laptop | not money, the _love_ of money | Sep 04 21:40 |
cubezzz-laptop | money itself is just a tool | Sep 04 21:40 |
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Chips_B_Malroy | cubezzz, yes | Sep 04 21:41 |
Chips_B_Malroy | it was a quote | Sep 04 21:41 |
cubezzz-laptop | I've learned a lot from FOSS | Sep 04 21:41 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Microsoft arranges spontaneous house parties for Windows 7 launch http://notnews.today.com/?p=630 | Sep 04 21:42 | |
cubezzz-laptop | Linux is much much more programmer friendly than doze | Sep 04 21:46 |
cubezzz-laptop | there's no way in hell I would go back to doze | Sep 04 21:46 |
schestowitz | _goblin: yes, I noticed her linking to that anti-Linux site | Sep 04 21:47 |
schestowitz | She also linked to linux haters before | Sep 04 21:47 |
ziggyfish | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/402767/comments/24 | Sep 04 21:48 |
cubezzz-laptop | how can anyone really be a "proprietary supporter" unless they are a share-holder or they actually work for the proprietary company? | Sep 04 21:48 |
cubezzz-laptop | doesn't seem like that could be the majority of people | Sep 04 21:49 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Cubezzz, it was a good catch on the misquotation. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations | Sep 04 21:49 |
cubezzz-laptop | ok, buy hardware that is as open as possible | Sep 04 21:50 |
cubezzz-laptop | yeah I mean money isn't evil, I work for money and I'm not evil :) | Sep 04 21:50 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Cubezz> there are those who will always be M$ fans, not so much because they love M$, but they fear change and learning something new | Sep 04 21:50 |
Chips_B_Malroy | but most those types do not write comments | Sep 04 21:51 |
cubezzz-laptop | ok, if someone got very rich from microsoft then I can understand yeah they would like microsoft | Sep 04 21:52 |
cubezzz-laptop | but almost all people are feeding microsoft, even if involuntarily | Sep 04 21:53 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Ballmer, quote: "I love this company." | Sep 04 21:53 |
cubezzz-laptop | yes :) | Sep 04 21:53 |
cubezzz-laptop | then he did a "Yeaaaaahhhhh!!!" afterwards | Sep 04 21:54 |
Chips_B_Malroy | was that when he did the monkey dance? | Sep 04 21:54 |
cubezzz-laptop | It could have been | Sep 04 21:54 |
Chips_B_Malroy | he is not dancing so much anymore | Sep 04 21:54 |
cubezzz-laptop | he's just a big fat slob | Sep 04 21:55 |
Chips_B_Malroy | like some people believe that Nero fiddled while Rome burned, some will think Ballmer dances while MS declines | Sep 04 21:56 |
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Chips_B_Malroy | Bringing back Bill will not save MS | Sep 04 21:58 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Steve already does everything that Bill wants, its like no change at all | Sep 04 21:58 |
cubezzz-laptop | Ballmer seemed to be a bit anti-Gates | Sep 04 21:58 |
ThistleWeb | MS will gradually evolve into a patent troll | Sep 04 21:59 |
Chips_B_Malroy | where? | Sep 04 21:59 |
cubezzz-laptop | we don't need him, use him yes, need him no | Sep 04 21:59 |
Chips_B_Malroy | or a holding company | Sep 04 21:59 |
ThistleWeb | which will be interesting if their entire existence is reliant on their patents and more and more peeps say "you know what? we'll build around that instead TYVM" | Sep 04 22:00 |
cubezzz-laptop | Wall Street Journal article... | Sep 04 22:00 |
cubezzz-laptop | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121261241035146237.html?mod=googlenews_wsj&apl=y&r=125394 | Sep 04 22:01 |
cubezzz-laptop | the quote is on wikipedia in the Ballmer article | Sep 04 22:02 |
Chips_B_Malroy | yes, but what was important was what they disagreed about | Sep 04 22:04 |
Chips_B_Malroy | I remember that, but another article, think it actually said more of what the disagreement was about | Sep 04 22:05 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Unrest in OpenSUSE Grows, Mono Faces Opposition Also http://ping.fm/5kWiQ | Sep 04 22:07 | |
schestowitz | ^^see picture | Sep 04 22:07 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: it's mono boy, not monkey boy | Sep 04 22:07 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] False Associations http://ping.fm/kaZe8 | Sep 04 22:13 | |
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Chips_B_Malroy | Graygeek has always made a lot of sense | Sep 04 22:15 |
schestowitz | Yes | Sep 04 22:21 |
schestowitz | I posted the above cause there's weird stuff going on | Sep 04 22:21 |
schestowitz | People pretend to be associated with me | Sep 04 22:21 |
schestowitz | Like before... and then giving some weird replies and stuff | Sep 04 22:21 |
schestowitz | As though they try to get me in trouble | Sep 04 22:21 |
schestowitz | GreyGeek was involved too | Sep 04 22:22 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] A heartwarming tale of finest British ingenuity, from b3ta (SFW) http://is.gd/2TkmA | Sep 04 22:27 | |
Chips_B_Malroy | I wonder if dogpile metasearch is now using bing as its top search hits? Just did a search for Microsoft in dogpile news, and the two top hits were ms sonsored | Sep 04 22:38 |
Chips_B_Malroy | google yahoo bing ask is what they use | Sep 04 22:39 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Microsoft Staves Off Word Sales Ban http://www.pcworld.com/article/171450/microsoft_staves_off_word_sales_ban.html?tk=rss_news we were just talking about this yesterday, that MS was going to be able to continue to sell Office one way or another | Sep 04 22:41 |
ThistleWeb | I doubt anyone believed MS would have to face the ban | Sep 04 22:42 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Microsoft reports attacks using IIS vulnerability http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10345497-264.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1001_3-0-5 | Sep 04 22:42 |
ThistleWeb | they have too many friends in high places for that | Sep 04 22:43 |
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Chips_B_Malroy | "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." | Sep 04 22:45 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Lord Acton | Sep 04 22:45 |
ThistleWeb | ahh, another man of the people, a Lord | Sep 04 22:46 |
Chips_B_Malroy | did Gates get knighted over there, or was it just his honorary degree here | Sep 04 22:47 |
Chips_B_Malroy | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3428673.stm | Sep 04 22:50 |
MinceR | "Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat." | Sep 04 22:50 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Knighthood for Microsoft's Gates | Sep 04 22:50 |
ThistleWeb | I believe only UK citeins can be knighted | Sep 04 22:51 |
ThistleWeb | but honoraray awards can be given if it's gonna benefit the UK elite somehow | Sep 04 22:51 |
Chips_B_Malroy | "Mr Gates, 48, the world's wealthiest man, said it was "a great honour" to be recognised for his business skills and for his work on poverty reduction. " | Sep 04 22:51 |
MinceR | he reduced his own poverty | Sep 04 22:52 |
Chips_B_Malroy | YES | Sep 04 22:52 |
ThistleWeb | Gates knighted for services to malware writers | Sep 04 22:52 |
ThistleWeb | his products have given malware writers the freedom to exploit and inovate like no other | Sep 04 22:52 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Malware writers should be the ones throwing the Windows Seven parties | Sep 04 22:52 |
MinceR | they are | Sep 04 22:53 |
MinceR | for example, the ones who "work" in Redmond | Sep 04 22:53 |
Chips_B_Malroy | lol | Sep 04 22:53 |
Chips_B_Malroy | "As an American citizen he cannot use the title "Sir" but will be entitled to put the letters KBE after his name. " Must be he would have to pay extra to get the law changed over there. | Sep 04 22:54 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Boas noites! | Sep 04 22:56 | |
Chips_B_Malroy | "The entrepreneur was handed an insignia to make him a Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire." | Sep 04 22:56 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Maybe, things are worse across the pond than I thought | Sep 04 22:57 |
MinceR | they're always sucking up to the usanians | Sep 04 22:57 |
ThistleWeb | ahven't we always been at war with uasnians? | Sep 04 22:58 |
MinceR | and trialling the surveillance state for them, presumably | Sep 04 22:58 |
MinceR | ThistleWeb: well, if we dare to think, we're turrists | Sep 04 22:58 |
MinceR | and there's a war of turrism going on | Sep 04 22:58 |
Chips_B_Malroy | "<ThistleWeb> ahven't we always been at war with uasnians?" Wait wait, I know that quote, is that from the book 1984 ? | Sep 04 22:59 |
ThistleWeb | I dont think they mind peeps thinking, as long as they agree with the govt | Sep 04 22:59 |
ThistleWeb | Chips_B_Malroy: yessums | Sep 04 22:59 |
ThistleWeb | it was a 1984 joke | Sep 04 22:59 |
balzac | lart | Sep 04 22:59 |
ThistleWeb | in 1984 it's Eurasia but it looked close enough to turn into a joke | Sep 04 23:00 |
Chips_B_Malroy | yes, it finially clicked | Sep 04 23:00 |
schestowitz | 2+2=7 (Vista 7) | Sep 04 23:00 |
schestowitz | Say it, bia* | Sep 04 23:00 |
balzac | roy, what's fresh man? | Sep 04 23:01 |
Chips_B_Malroy | I need to rent that movie, read the book long ago | Sep 04 23:01 |
ThistleWeb | the john hurt movie is quite good | Sep 04 23:01 |
Chips_B_Malroy | animal farm, brave new world | Sep 04 23:01 |
Chips_B_Malroy | all were good | Sep 04 23:02 |
balzac | I dropped a couple of comments on the topic of Con Kolivas' new Brain Fuck Scheduler | Sep 04 23:02 |
balzac | http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Con-Kolivas-Introduces-New-BFS-Scheduler | Sep 04 23:02 |
balzac | I had to take issue with our friend oiaohm in that threda | Sep 04 23:03 |
ThistleWeb | the movie is quite dated but that's to be expected, it is very faithful to the book though | Sep 04 23:05 |
balzac | People are pretending to be Roy | Sep 04 23:05 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Critical Error - Bill Gates Knighted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez5z9rcvZC8 | Sep 04 23:05 |
balzac | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTFHEC6c3Zc <--- this kid knows how to address the poseurs | Sep 04 23:06 |
Chips_B_Malroy | I got to save this one | Sep 04 23:06 |
balzac | pretty silly | Sep 04 23:08 |
balzac | was he really knighted? | Sep 04 23:08 |
Chips_B_Malroy | "<balzac> People are pretending to be Roy" Now I can see them trying to discredit Roy, the MS Shills. But trying to pretend to be me in the comments of MS Watch? They did that back when Willcox was still there, and they did it with Goblin too. | Sep 04 23:09 |
MinceR | if full-screen flash failing is the kernel's fault, by what sort of magic does full screen full hd mpeg4 playback work fine? | Sep 04 23:09 |
MinceR | are these people out of their minds? | Sep 04 23:09 |
balzac | The Queen of England can kiss my bag. | Sep 04 23:09 |
MinceR | she can't kiss mine, it would get filthy. | Sep 04 23:09 |
balzac | I'd accept knighthood if she offered it, but I'm already a 33rd degree masonic knight | Sep 04 23:10 |
ThistleWeb | I thought of setting up a site called theroyalringpiece.com with a picture of the Queen on the loo reading the Sun as a logo | Sep 04 23:10 |
balzac | your filthy bag would make her sneeze? | Sep 04 23:10 |
balzac | </endtopic> | Sep 04 23:10 |
MinceR | i'd rather not have her sneeze on me | Sep 04 23:11 |
Chips_B_Malroy | So has Bill bought, err, I mean won the Nobel prize yet? | Sep 04 23:11 |
cubezzz-laptop | ok, no need to ask if you guys are monarchists :) | Sep 04 23:11 |
MinceR | no human is fit to rule me | Sep 04 23:11 |
ThistleWeb | you have to wonder about in institution that demands you kiss the royal ring | Sep 04 23:11 |
cubezzz-laptop | I thought the monarchy was kind of silly | Sep 04 23:11 |
balzac | I wouldn't kiss her ring | Sep 04 23:12 |
ThistleWeb | it is fitting, where you kiss ass to get rewards, like areas of land and honours | Sep 04 23:12 |
MinceR | it's a typical feudal institution | Sep 04 23:12 |
MinceR | with all the filth it's made of | Sep 04 23:12 |
balzac | I'm starting to appreciate feudalism, so long as I'm the lord, not the peasant! | Sep 04 23:12 |
MinceR | i would, except i don't really care to tell stupid people what to do | Sep 04 23:13 |
balzac | you get to pick the best women from among the peasantry | Sep 04 23:13 |
balzac | defile them one by one, finger bang, bang! | Sep 04 23:14 |
MinceR | i'd rather them come willingly | Sep 04 23:14 |
ThistleWeb | or the herds if you prefer ;) | Sep 04 23:14 |
balzac | sorry... | Sep 04 23:14 |
MinceR | rather them being forced to | Sep 04 23:14 |
balzac | MinceR: that never happens. | Sep 04 23:14 |
balzac | you've got to have a pile of gold. | Sep 04 23:14 |
MinceR | that can be arranged | Sep 04 23:14 |
balzac | women have needs, more than just for your company. | Sep 04 23:14 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Bill Gates to receive Indira Gandhi Peace Prize today http://blog.taragana.com/index.php/archive/bill-gates-to-receive-indira-gandhi-peace-prize-today/ | Sep 04 23:14 |
balzac | well, if you have a pile of gold, you've become an aristocrat, and they're coming for your gold, not your incredibly charming personality | Sep 04 23:15 |
ThistleWeb | now that would be a medical complaint to make the news, having golden piles | Sep 04 23:15 |
balzac | gnarly | Sep 04 23:16 |
MinceR | :) | Sep 04 23:17 |
balzac | Bill Gates is extremely popular, except for among f among IT professionals | Sep 04 23:17 |
schestowitz | Cause they understand the issues | Sep 04 23:18 |
MinceR | so his extremely popular among people who have no idea what he did | Sep 04 23:18 |
schestowitz | *LOL* " Gandhi Peace Prize" | Sep 04 23:18 |
MinceR | that's the Cult of the Almighty Money, prime religion of Earth. | Sep 04 23:18 |
ThistleWeb | windows will go down in history as a swear word among its users | Sep 04 23:18 |
schestowitz | From the man who yells "Jihad" i his E-mails | Sep 04 23:18 |
cubezzz-laptop | was Rockefeller popular? | Sep 04 23:18 |
balzac | he's robbing computer users of their freedom to get all these prizes | Sep 04 23:18 |
schestowitz | In calls the "kill" his competitors | Sep 04 23:18 |
MinceR | s/his/he's/ | Sep 04 23:18 |
schestowitz | Yeah, real pacifist figure | Sep 04 23:18 |
ThistleWeb | the US system does value greed, and Gates is up there among the top on that score | Sep 04 23:19 |
MinceR | not only the US system | Sep 04 23:19 |
balzac | yeah, he's a brutal troll, thrashing other businessmen | Sep 04 23:19 |
MinceR | the human system | Sep 04 23:19 |
balzac | but very charming in person, it seems | Sep 04 23:19 |
balzac | money charms people | Sep 04 23:19 |
cubezzz-laptop | one thing I don't understand is why, after the DOJ trouble, Microsoft is so anti-Linux | Sep 04 23:20 |
balzac | I can't believe the British Royal Navy put windows on their ships and submarines | Sep 04 23:20 |
balzac | that's not smart | Sep 04 23:20 |
Chips_B_Malroy | money is power, and power corrupts _______________ | Sep 04 23:20 |
cubezzz-laptop | why not just ignore Linux? | Sep 04 23:20 |
MinceR | cubezzz-laptop: they know and fear their doom. | Sep 04 23:20 |
MinceR | also, the stakeholders probably demand attention to competitors. | Sep 04 23:20 |
balzac | the doom of their monopoly. it's important to specify | Sep 04 23:20 |
balzac | not doom in general | Sep 04 23:20 |
MinceR | everything they have relies on their monopoly | Sep 04 23:20 |
balzac | pretty much | Sep 04 23:20 |
MinceR | once their monopoly crumbles, the rest of their criminal organization won't stand for long | Sep 04 23:21 |
cubezzz-laptop | I think with Linux we have a product good enough to stand on it's own merit | Sep 04 23:21 |
cubezzz-laptop | it's the schools I worry about though | Sep 04 23:21 |
MinceR | i worry about a lot of things | Sep 04 23:21 |
MinceR | including the time it takes to kill m$ | Sep 04 23:21 |
balzac | to kill their obscene profits | Sep 04 23:21 |
MinceR | every second of their survival keeps causing more damage | Sep 04 23:22 |
balzac | the survival of their monopoly | Sep 04 23:22 |
MinceR | not just that | Sep 04 23:22 |
Chips_B_Malroy | "<cubezzz-laptop> one thing I don't understand is why, after the DOJ trouble, Microsoft is so anti-Linux" M$ had to buy both parties here in the USA after Clintion left. So they think they can use the Gov and Patents and attack Linux without anyone doing anything about them. Its only the EU that stands in their way | Sep 04 23:22 |
balzac | i keep feeling the need to soften your language | Sep 04 23:22 |
balzac | it's too much like a bolshevik | Sep 04 23:22 |
MinceR | they never rest, always looking for some way to harm the rest of the world | Sep 04 23:22 |
balzac | we're not going to do them up like the Romanovs | Sep 04 23:22 |
MinceR | agreed, there are more effective means of punishment | Sep 04 23:23 |
MinceR | also, they could try to make up for the losses they've caused | Sep 04 23:23 |
MinceR | they could be forced to do some real work | Sep 04 23:23 |
balzac | what, labor camps? | Sep 04 23:23 |
Chips_B_Malroy | they will never be punished, | Sep 04 23:23 |
balzac | sounds like bolsheviks again | Sep 04 23:23 |
MinceR | i don't care about your labels :> | Sep 04 23:23 |
balzac | care | Sep 04 23:23 |
MinceR | Chips_B_Malroy: i'm afraid so. | Sep 04 23:23 |
balzac | Roy, I think you should take MinceR's tiara away | Sep 04 23:24 |
cubezzz-laptop | just break up Microsoft already, like the DOJ said before | Sep 04 23:24 |
balzac | and his scepter too | Sep 04 23:24 |
MinceR | there are too many evil people doing evil and succeeding, encouraging each other. | Sep 04 23:24 |
MinceR | it seems that crime does pay after all. | Sep 04 23:24 |
Chips_B_Malroy | only the EU has any chance of breaking up M$ | Sep 04 23:24 |
MinceR | the EU won't break up m$. the EU is way too corrupt to do that. | Sep 04 23:25 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Bill and friends run this country | Sep 04 23:25 |
cubezzz-laptop | or MIcrosoft could just decay from within | Sep 04 23:25 |
cubezzz-laptop | possible | Sep 04 23:25 |
MinceR | i'd rather not wait for that. | Sep 04 23:25 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Linux will beat MS if its a fair fight | Sep 04 23:25 |
MinceR | it isn't | Sep 04 23:26 |
MinceR | GNU/Linux will still win most likely | Sep 04 23:26 |
Chips_B_Malroy | no, but it is still gaining | Sep 04 23:26 |
MinceR | the question is one of collateral damage. | Sep 04 23:26 |
balzac | MinceR: the world is, and always has been too corrupt for you. You sound like that 15th century priest, Girolamo Savonarola | Sep 04 23:26 |
cubezzz-laptop | got to try to get GNU/Linux in the schools I think | Sep 04 23:27 |
balzac | you can't purify the world of what you consider evil | Sep 04 23:27 |
MinceR | balzac: well, i'm sorry for not liking corruption. | Sep 04 23:27 |
MinceR | i'm sorry for having ideals. | Sep 04 23:27 |
balzac | RMS has a noble goal in liberating computer users | Sep 04 23:27 |
Chips_B_Malroy | We must understand why IBM and Google want patents, its like the cold war, everyone wanted nukes too | Sep 04 23:27 |
balzac | he salts his rhetoric with the word "evil", but we all know RMS also has a great sense of humor. | Sep 04 23:27 |
cubezzz-laptop | at least get to the point where you can really choose which OS you get a the store | Sep 04 23:27 |
balzac | but where's your sense of humor? | Sep 04 23:27 |
MinceR | balzac: did someone make a joke? | Sep 04 23:28 |
MinceR | or tell | Sep 04 23:28 |
balzac | no, but you ought to | Sep 04 23:28 |
cubezzz-laptop | one scenario: EU is too tough on MIcrosoft, Microsoft leaves Europe :) | Sep 04 23:28 |
cubezzz-laptop | ...and there was much celebration | Sep 04 23:28 |
Chips_B_Malroy | "<cubezzz-laptop> at least get to the point where you can really choose which OS you get a the store"=====when this happens and we have real choice at the stores, MS is dead | Sep 04 23:29 |
balzac | Chips_B_Malroy: mutually assured destruction was a crazy idea, but power is what it is. | Sep 04 23:29 |
cubezzz-laptop | it does feel Microsoft is losing ground for sure | Sep 04 23:29 |
Chips_B_Malroy | MS cannot leave Europe | Sep 04 23:29 |
balzac | of course the USSR was going to make their own after the US made its nuclear arsenel | Sep 04 23:29 |
balzac | if they hadn't, there'd have been no balance between super powers | Sep 04 23:30 |
MinceR | the EU allowed m$ to sell its WMP-less winblows at the same price as the one with WMP | Sep 04 23:30 |
MinceR | so no, they aren't tough on m$ at all | Sep 04 23:30 |
Chips_B_Malroy | its cannot lose anywhere, giving Linux a beach head, is the end for them | Sep 04 23:30 |
balzac | then each country which wanted to be secure made their own arsenal | Sep 04 23:30 |
cubezzz-laptop | starting this year, I have people asking me to put Linux on their laptops | Sep 04 23:31 |
cubezzz-laptop | not me suggesting, the customer | Sep 04 23:31 |
balzac | I tell you, even if Bill Gates had wanted to abandon his proprietary licenses, his shareholders wouldn't have allowed it. | Sep 04 23:31 |
cubezzz-laptop | good sign there | Sep 04 23:31 |
balzac | the shareholders of microsoft are going to want to wring money out of computer users quarter by quarter until microsoft collapses | Sep 04 23:31 |
balzac | it's a group phenomenon, a big pyramid scheme relying in computer users' ignorance of their freedom | Sep 04 23:32 |
Chips_B_Malroy | it was always something before nukes, battleships maybe at another time. but he idea of patents maybe is so you can counter sue | Sep 04 23:32 |
MinceR | then they're just as guilty as gates is. | Sep 04 23:32 |
balzac | Everyone except the great Mincer is guilty of something | Sep 04 23:32 |
MinceR | when did i say that? | Sep 04 23:32 |
cubezzz-laptop | we never really had freedom before though | Sep 04 23:32 |
cubezzz-laptop | not with software | Sep 04 23:32 |
balzac | The focus is on winning, and taking power away from them, not on punishing them after they lose power. | Sep 04 23:32 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Latest Anti-GNU/Linux Moves Are Sign of Agony http://ping.fm/OW5ar | Sep 04 23:33 | |
cubezzz-laptop | no FOSS I can remember in the "good old days" | Sep 04 23:33 |
MinceR | so we just let the next greedy bunch of criminals do the same thing, knowing that they won't be punished? | Sep 04 23:33 |
balzac | cubezzz-laptop: as Tanto asked the Lone Ranger, "What do you mean by 'we', white man?" | Sep 04 23:33 |
cubezzz-laptop | we = personal computer users | Sep 04 23:33 |
MinceR | is the game about taking as much money as you can, and then being released with all the money? | Sep 04 23:33 |
balzac | MinceR: once there was a very rich man who didn't have a can-opener at his picnic. He told his 'Jeeves' - "have a can-opener factory built on this spot!" | Sep 04 23:34 |
MinceR | should we just release all criminals from prisons because the crimes they've committed are already in the past? | Sep 04 23:34 |
cubezzz-laptop | there was some FOSS, yes, with Amiga we had Fish disks, that was a type of FOSS | Sep 04 23:34 |
Chips_B_Malroy | http://www.zdnet.co.uk/tsearch/linux+ballmer+bill+gates.htm "Ballmer wants $100 PCs to combat piracy News Ballmer also defended a comment made earlier this year by Bill Gates, Microsoft's chairman, who said security will not be an issue in three years. Ballmer said that some governments have decided against using Linux after studying the costs involved. * Tags: * Steve Ballmer, * Piracy, * $100 | Sep 04 23:34 |
_goblin | ah fred fish!!! | Sep 04 23:34 |
cubezzz-laptop | I shouldn't say "No Freedom" | Sep 04 23:35 |
balzac | MinceR: I keep vendettas in mind. If someone gets on my nerves badly enough, I remember them and I wait for my moment to stick it to them. | Sep 04 23:35 |
balzac | But it's not an over-arching goal. Computer user's freedom is the goal. | Sep 04 23:35 |
MinceR | balzac: what do you mean by that? | Sep 04 23:35 |
balzac | We can mock Microsoft after their monopoly is toppled. | Sep 04 23:36 |
MinceR | balzac: do you also think that gates, ballmer & co. should be allowed to keep all the money they've stolen from society? | Sep 04 23:36 |
balzac | I agree with the guy who threw the eggs. | Sep 04 23:36 |
balzac | "give that money back, RIGHT NOW!" | Sep 04 23:36 |
balzac | But he threw eggs | Sep 04 23:37 |
balzac | not stones | Sep 04 23:37 |
MinceR | he wanted to live | Sep 04 23:37 |
cubezzz-laptop | yeah too much concentration of wealth is bad, and in Gate's case it was way too much | Sep 04 23:37 |
balzac | stones would have been wrong | Sep 04 23:37 |
MinceR | the authorities would have taken his freedom away of he threw stones | Sep 04 23:37 |
balzac | rotten tomatos would have been fine too | Sep 04 23:37 |
MinceR | yes, because he should have thrown grenades | Sep 04 23:37 |
balzac | see Roy? | Sep 04 23:37 |
balzac | you don't want to give ops to Mincer | Sep 04 23:38 |
cubezzz-laptop | balzac, was the egg thrower charged with anything? | Sep 04 23:38 |
MinceR | s/of/if/ | Sep 04 23:38 |
ThistleWeb | iGrenade? | Sep 04 23:38 |
balzac | he's a hot-head | Sep 04 23:38 |
MinceR | balzac: this has nothing to do with ops. also, you might want to stop trolling. | Sep 04 23:38 |
balzac | i'm not trolling, you are. | Sep 04 23:38 |
MinceR | ThistleWeb: nah, that isn't reliable enough | Sep 04 23:38 |
ThistleWeb | lol | Sep 04 23:38 |
MinceR | it's set to a random fuse. | Sep 04 23:38 |
ThistleWeb | maybe if it's set right it may go ZAZune!!! | Sep 04 23:38 |
MinceR | lol | Sep 04 23:38 |
ThistleWeb | KAZune!! | Sep 04 23:38 |
cubezzz-laptop | ;-) | Sep 04 23:39 |
cubezzz-laptop | he could have thrown the GPL at him | Sep 04 23:39 |
ThistleWeb | engraved onto a cannonball | Sep 04 23:39 |
MinceR | balzac: i know you want to cuddle criminals in order to set an example for others | Sep 04 23:39 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Gates money will never be redistributed | Sep 04 23:39 |
MinceR | "sure, just cheat and steal happily, we won't do anything harmful to you" | Sep 04 23:40 |
MinceR | "maybe take back a little bit of what you stole" | Sep 04 23:40 |
cubezzz-laptop | Chips_B_Malroy, it may actually, he has said each kid only gets 1 million each | Sep 04 23:40 |
cubezzz-laptop | so all the rest goes to the foundation | Sep 04 23:40 |
balzac | you want to cuddle them | Sep 04 23:40 |
MinceR | people are so moral and ethical they don't need deterrents from crime, right? | Sep 04 23:40 |
balzac | i want to cuddle hot chicks. i can only tolerate petty criminality, nothing violent like you proposed a second ago. | Sep 04 23:40 |
MinceR | apparently you tolerate any crime, but you don't tolerate the punishment of criminals. | Sep 04 23:41 |
Chips_B_Malroy | ah here is more on the Gates ballmer fight in 2000, Gates-Ballmer rifts marked Microsoft power shift http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9960626-7.html looked like reading between the lines it was about Netdocs, the forerunner of Office online | Sep 04 23:42 |
mib_3425 | Killing someone with a granade, would itself be considered a crime, not a punishment of a criminal. | Sep 04 23:43 |
balzac | no kidding | Sep 04 23:43 |
MinceR | oh, mutex finally speaks | Sep 04 23:43 |
MinceR | having found a fellow troll | Sep 04 23:43 |
balzac | Mincer, you had to get yourself all worked up again. You didn't learn last time I scolded you. | Sep 04 23:44 |
MinceR | balzac: who do you think you are? | Sep 04 23:44 |
balzac | I bet Roy will remove your '@' when he sees it. | Sep 04 23:44 |
MinceR | then he'll also remove your ban. | Sep 04 23:44 |
balzac | bring it | Sep 04 23:44 |
MinceR | and mutex's | Sep 04 23:45 |
balzac | learn to behave like an adult | Sep 04 23:45 |
MinceR | from you? | Sep 04 23:45 |
balzac | or else you can't hold any position of responsibility | Sep 04 23:45 |
MinceR | do you think what you do is adult behavior? | Sep 04 23:45 |
balzac | from whoever, it doesn't matter who you learn from, so long as you stop degrading the reputation of Roy's forum | Sep 04 23:45 |
balzac | relative to you, yes | Sep 04 23:46 |
_goblin | balzac: the only child here is you.... | Sep 04 23:46 |
MinceR | get off that high horse already, balzac | Sep 04 23:46 |
balzac | _goblin: what, you agree with the grenade 'joke'? | Sep 04 23:46 |
_goblin | hes not on a high horse...more like a three legged donkey. | Sep 04 23:46 |
balzac | it's uncouth | Sep 04 23:46 |
balzac | unacceptable | Sep 04 23:46 |
MinceR | oh, poor mr. ballmer would get hurt | Sep 04 23:46 |
balzac | _goblin: that's what your momma said | Sep 04 23:46 |
MinceR | we can't have that, now can we? | Sep 04 23:46 |
balzac | no, we can't have that. | Sep 04 23:46 |
MinceR | he's such a valuable member of our society | Sep 04 23:47 |
MinceR | we really need people like that ripping us off | Sep 04 23:47 |
_goblin | balzac: Youve just proved my point. | Sep 04 23:47 |
MinceR | after all, otherwise what would we do all the money we've earned with real work? | Sep 04 23:47 |
balzac | at least he's not talking about throwing grenades at ideological opponents. | Sep 04 23:47 |
_goblin | balzac: Mum jokes were over after you left school.... | Sep 04 23:47 |
balzac | I'd sooner drink a beer with Ballmer than you, Mincer. | Sep 04 23:47 |
MinceR | what would we do with all our free time if we didn't have his great products and all their flaws to waste our time with? | Sep 04 23:47 |
MinceR | balzac: i know, you're kindred souls. | Sep 04 23:47 |
balzac | I don't use Microsoft products. | Sep 04 23:47 |
MinceR | balzac: you believe in criminals going uninhibited and unpunished. | Sep 04 23:48 |
*ThistleWeb shakes head | Sep 04 23:48 | |
balzac | but this is about software. this isn't a war. | Sep 04 23:48 |
_goblin | balzac: what does it matter what you use...you are still an idiot. | Sep 04 23:48 |
MinceR | balzac: and apparently a society where everybody steals from everybody as much as they could. | Sep 04 23:48 |
balzac | MinceR: I believe in you retracting violent language. | Sep 04 23:48 |
MinceR | balzac: read m$'s memos and you'll see that it is indeed war. | Sep 04 23:48 |
MinceR | and we're the targets. | Sep 04 23:48 |
balzac | You saw I slammed those microsoft fanboys who came in here and said I needed to get my head smashed | Sep 04 23:48 |
balzac | violent language has no place in a software forum | Sep 04 23:49 |
MinceR | you must have said idiotic things, just like you're saying now. | Sep 04 23:49 |
ThistleWeb | being a target can be fun, it makes you feel speshul | Sep 04 23:49 |
_goblin | MinceR: Why not just ban him...he's wasting peoples time. | Sep 04 23:49 |
MinceR | well, then go have a beer with your favorite ballmer and ask him about how he wants to kill google. | Sep 04 23:49 |
MinceR | i'm sure there's no violence there. | Sep 04 23:49 |
*ThistleWeb ducks to avoid low flying chairs | Sep 04 23:49 | |
MinceR | nor is there any in those "death spirals" they keep talking about. | Sep 04 23:49 |
_goblin | damn | Sep 04 23:49 |
balzac | saying "kill google" is a lot different than your 'joke' | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | i'm sure | Sep 04 23:50 |
_goblin | thistleweb: you got that in before I could! | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | because we aren't talking now | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | oh, wait | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | we are! | Sep 04 23:50 |
balzac | Mincer, you're worse in your use of language than any of the MS execs I've heard | Sep 04 23:50 |
ThistleWeb | _goblin: np | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | we were discussing "violent language", by your own words | Sep 04 23:50 |
balzac | they shouldn't talk that way either | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | then you should listen to some m$ execs | Sep 04 23:50 |
balzac | but they don't say anything about throwing grenades at specific people | Sep 04 23:50 |
balzac | i've read their quotes | Sep 04 23:50 |
_goblin | yawn | Sep 04 23:50 |
ThistleWeb | balzac: you should get a sense of humour, they're nice | Sep 04 23:50 |
MinceR | apparently you haven't | Sep 04 23:51 |
MinceR | balzac: you have no idea what you're talking about. | Sep 04 23:51 |
balzac | ThistleWeb: tell it to Mincer | Sep 04 23:51 |
balzac | I have a widely renowned sense of humor | Sep 04 23:51 |
MinceR | balzac: renowned among whom? | Sep 04 23:51 |
balzac | people piss their pants over my humor | Sep 04 23:51 |
ThistleWeb | dude, I'm sitting here watching what I'd describe as an IRC playschool fight | Sep 04 23:51 |
_goblin | himself | Sep 04 23:51 |
balzac | Mincer is a troll. | Sep 04 23:51 |
ThistleWeb | he said, he said | Sep 04 23:52 |
MinceR | balzac: also, you might want to think about where m$ will stop in their actions against our freedom. | Sep 04 23:52 |
ThistleWeb | it's pathetic | Sep 04 23:52 |
balzac | MinceR: you're a demagogue and a troll. | Sep 04 23:52 |
balzac | I know how to resist Microsoft. You don't. | Sep 04 23:52 |
MinceR | you don't want to resist them | Sep 04 23:52 |
MinceR | you want them to enjoy the money they've acquired unfairly and unethically. | Sep 04 23:52 |
MinceR | until they die of natural causes. | Sep 04 23:53 |
balzac | wrong. you're not the vanguard of resistance to Microsoft. You're like the guy who stands at the back of a demonstration and throws bottles and rocks at the riot police. | Sep 04 23:53 |
ThistleWeb | as far as I read the comments, everyone knows it's just a laugh, we're not advocating violence in any way shape or form, yet you seem not to have got that | Sep 04 23:53 |
Chips_B_Malroy | Not to offend anyone's religion here, but MS leaders have used the jihad word many times | Sep 04 23:53 |
MinceR | balzac: news flash, you aren't the vanguard of resistance to m$, either. | Sep 04 23:53 |
balzac | you incite negative consequences and you hurt the goals of the real resistance | Sep 04 23:53 |
ThistleWeb | you seem to be reading stuff very literal | Sep 04 23:53 |
balzac | MinceR: I am. You are not. | Sep 04 23:53 |
MinceR | balzac: you claim you know what the real resistance is | Sep 04 23:53 |
MinceR | balzac: go back to kindergarten. | Sep 04 23:53 |
balzac | I'm calling you out for being a hot-head, and a fraud. You're not an activist, you're an "angstivist". Why don't you go join PETA? | Sep 04 23:54 |
ThistleWeb | it'd be a sad, yet careful place if everything written online was supposed to be taken literally | Sep 04 23:54 |
*MinceR sets ban on *!*n=balzac@*.slicehost.net | Sep 04 23:54 | |
*MinceR has kicked balzac from #boycottnovell (that will be enough, then.) | Sep 04 23:54 | |
MinceR | sorry, but that really goes beyond my tolerance for trolling. | Sep 04 23:54 |
_goblin | I agree | Sep 04 23:54 |
_goblin | he was just winding people up. | Sep 04 23:54 |
_goblin | he didn't believe a word of what he was saying (IMO) | Sep 04 23:54 |
Chips_B_Malroy | actually, I thought both of you are somewhat in the vanguard of ms resistance | Sep 04 23:54 |
MinceR | i don't care if he believed that crap | Sep 04 23:55 |
ThistleWeb | does anyone really believe we're actually advocating real grenades etc? | Sep 04 23:55 |
Chips_B_Malroy | no | Sep 04 23:56 |
MinceR | i am, because i think that physical damage to a single person who's dedicated to harming our society is less than the damage he can yet inflict on thousands or millions. | Sep 04 23:56 |
ThistleWeb | sheesh, what a place it'd be if everyone had to restrict their comments to what they literally meant | Sep 04 23:56 |
MinceR | i think the person who causes all this damage should be made to suffer for it, not innocent thousands. | Sep 04 23:56 |
MinceR | if i break something, i'm made to pay for it. | Sep 04 23:56 |
MinceR | if i go around breaking stuff, i'm restrained. | Sep 04 23:56 |
ThistleWeb | planty of Fox News fans would be in jail for hate crimes and death threats | Sep 04 23:57 |
MinceR | why can't this work on influential, rich people? | Sep 04 23:57 |
MinceR | because they're the High Priests of the Almighty Money and should not be insulted? | Sep 04 23:57 |
MinceR | ballmer spits in our face every day of our life (not literally) | Sep 04 23:58 |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Sep 04 23:58 | |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Sep 04 23:58 | |
*#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Sep 04 23:58 | |
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Sep 04 23:58 | |
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Sep 04 23:58 | |
MinceR | i don't think we should be forced to endure that just because some kind of warped system of false morals commands that he should not be harmed in any way, no matter what. | Sep 04 23:58 |
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from MinceR | Sep 04 23:58 | |
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*n=balzac@*.slicehost.net | Sep 04 23:58 | |
Diablo-D3 | who was that | Sep 04 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | lolslicehost | Sep 04 23:58 |
MinceR | i see trolls are quite welcome here. | Sep 04 23:58 |
MinceR | DaemonFC, balzac, _Mutex_ | Sep 04 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | meh | Sep 04 23:59 |
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