-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard sorry to jump in on your conversation but I have to say Ive been VERY impressed with Chromium. Completely agree. | Sep 10 00:00 | |
schestowitz | _goblin: maybe other sites | Sep 10 00:00 |
---|---|---|
schestowitz | Like eranger | Sep 10 00:00 |
_goblin | ah. | Sep 10 00:00 |
schestowitz | *ber | Sep 10 00:00 |
schestowitz | Linux is made out of people from different backgrounds | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | RMS is from biology for instance | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | PJ a paralegal | Sep 10 00:01 |
zlg | RMS is physics ? | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | Developer of Wolvix a painter | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | Mozilla's CEO (former) an artistic type too | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | zlg: depends I think | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | He started a PhD | Sep 10 00:01 |
schestowitz | I could be wrong | Sep 10 00:02 |
schestowitz | He said people said he'd be designated for biology | Sep 10 00:02 |
schestowitz | He got 1600 in his SATs | Sep 10 00:02 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Writer Explains What Made Him Move to GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/DOU7E | Sep 10 00:03 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LugRadio Live 2009 Carved in Stone http://ping.fm/GvGPy | Sep 10 00:04 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Asterisk and Linux Married for Free PBX Solutions http://ping.fm/e5Tcd http://ping.fm/qrjuW | Sep 10 00:07 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux 2.6.32 to do 3-D with #Radeon #Drivers http://ping.fm/6ahj7 | Sep 10 00:13 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #VIA Plays Ball with #Linux , Joins the #Kernel Foundation [sic] http://ping.fm/0KVYv | Sep 10 00:16 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] For all you Windows users -> http://tinyurl.com/ase1j9 || Have fun :) !windows #windows #fun | Sep 10 00:19 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of the #Lin-X #GNU #Linux #Distribution http://ping.fm/fKwYe | Sep 10 00:19 | |
schestowitz | trmanco: aaaaaaaaaahh! My eyes !! | Sep 10 00:20 |
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trmanco | schestowitz: you got rick rolled | Sep 10 00:21 |
trmanco | firefox can stop the script | Sep 10 00:21 |
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trmanco | keep on clicking ok ok ok ok | Sep 10 00:21 |
trmanco | it will ask you if you want to stop | Sep 10 00:21 |
trmanco | at some point :| | Sep 10 00:21 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment Has Summit http://ping.fm/CmhxG #kde !kde | Sep 10 00:22 | |
_goblin | lol...chromium put a stop to that pesky Rick Astley no probs... | Sep 10 00:26 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Adopts #Upstart and #Dell Adopts Debian Derivative for #Desktop PCs http://ping.fm/F2LmT http://ping.fm/B1T6z | Sep 10 00:28 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Energy -Efficient #Boards Targets #Linux http://ping.fm/gDqTu | Sep 10 00:30 | |
schestowitz | trmanco: I opened it in Konq | Sep 10 00:30 |
schestowitz | No popups | Sep 10 00:30 |
trmanco | meh | Sep 10 00:31 |
schestowitz | YEah, seriously | Sep 10 00:31 |
schestowitz | It's my default kde browser | Sep 10 00:31 |
trmanco | it's really a popup | Sep 10 00:31 |
trmanco | it's an altert box | Sep 10 00:31 |
trmanco | alert* | Sep 10 00:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia Elaborates on #Linux #Phones Market Strategy http://ping.fm/NyhQc | Sep 10 00:35 | |
_Hicham_ | at last, my first Window with Gtk::Builder class | Sep 10 00:36 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LiMo #Foundation Grows Bigger http://ping.fm/pFZQm #linux | Sep 10 00:37 | |
schestowitz | Windows or window? | Sep 10 00:37 |
_Hicham_ | a window | Sep 10 00:38 |
_Hicham_ | Anjuta is really a great IDE | Sep 10 00:40 |
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_Hicham_ | thanks to Naba Kumar | Sep 10 00:40 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Grows up in #Mobiles Under #Android Identity http://ping.fm/NBNcF http://ping.fm/ylRlb | Sep 10 00:41 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Dell #Inspiron with #GNU #Linux #Reviewed http://ping.fm/bJaJp | Sep 10 00:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Support I'm Linux, add a #twibbon to your avatar now! - http://twibbon.com/join/Im-Linux-2 | Sep 10 00:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at #Jolicloud (GNU/Linux) #Sub-notebooks http://ping.fm/tc6UY | Sep 10 00:43 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Expands a Business Focus for #Postbox http://ping.fm/IBYMI | Sep 10 00:49 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #NeelieKroes Proves That #FreeSoftware Made it Big http://ping.fm/s3CzP | Sep 10 00:50 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Software Project Goes Free (in in Freedom) http://ping.fm/AS5X3 | Sep 10 00:52 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Drupal (GPL) Powers SUN a Web Site http://ping.fm/1rjo5 | Sep 10 00:56 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open Dinosaur Project Follows the Free Software Phenomenon http://ping.fm/mTBqp | Sep 10 01:07 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Brazilian #Government Advocates #FreeSoftware for Social Benefits http://ping.fm/9jGzI | Sep 10 01:08 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Message Extended in #Freedomware http://ping.fm/CtfCn | Sep 10 01:10 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Finally Gives #Ogg a Boost http://ping.fm/UAN68 | Sep 10 01:13 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #Data Collection is Dangerously #Evil http://ping.fm/f4MgL http://ping.fm/R7LPL | Sep 10 01:15 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft 's "Letters from Dead People" #Shill ( #CAGW ) is Still #Shilling for Cash/Companies http://ping.fm/cLyJL | Sep 10 01:23 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Web Censorship and Surveillance Promotes by China, Australia, Scientology Cult http://ping.fm/UID46 http://ping.fm/2WlmH | Sep 10 01:24 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Proprietary Software for #Filtering Uses for #Spying on Kids http://ping.fm/ncQaU | Sep 10 01:26 | |
_goblin | Anyone ever read the "works" of technogran...? | Sep 10 01:26 |
_goblin | considering she admits to being elderly and "trying to keep up"...she's very current and on the ball in terms of latest technologies... | Sep 10 01:27 |
_goblin | and of course her main conversations appear to be with the usual MS faithful suspects......mmm...wouldn't be silly enough to challenge her, however it would be interesting if a few emails were sent to the mainstream press about her....if she was real then its some great publicity for "silver surfing" and if she's not....the mainstream press could find that out too... | Sep 10 01:30 |
_goblin | yep, I think I will champion her works to the mainstream media....I'm sure one of them would run a feature....... | Sep 10 01:31 |
_goblin | If she is not fake...good for her. | Sep 10 01:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MAFIAA Raided by Police at Order of an Artist http://ping.fm/5XtVk | Sep 10 01:32 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Digs Its Own #Grave http://ping.fm/o8Jpd | Sep 10 01:36 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Lies in Reports About #Linux and Gets Away with It http://ping.fm/ltqFW | Sep 10 01:39 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple Snubs #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/eDg9S | Sep 10 01:43 | |
schestowitz | technogran? | Sep 10 01:45 |
_goblin | yep..... | Sep 10 01:45 |
schestowitz | Never heard of it | Sep 10 01:45 |
schestowitz | Is it on the repos? | Sep 10 01:45 |
schestowitz | :-" | Sep 10 01:45 |
_goblin | an alleged oap who is VERY up on tech... | Sep 10 01:45 |
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_goblin | http://twitter.com/technogranma | Sep 10 01:47 |
_goblin | I really hope she is real....despite being a Windows user its refreshing to see IT appealing to all groups.... | Sep 10 01:48 |
_goblin | thats why I think the mainstream press should be made aware of her skill level..... | Sep 10 01:49 |
_goblin | I'm sure theres one or two news agencies who would be willing to champion what she has achieved. | Sep 10 01:49 |
_goblin | In a world that stereotypes IT users, she brings a refreshing change...... | Sep 10 01:50 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] just watched "Trouble the Water" - amazing, very touching. It's a must see movie. http://tinyurl.com/co5wes | Sep 10 01:53 | |
schestowitz | _goblin: sounds like wallclimber | Sep 10 01:53 |
_goblin | wallclimber? | Sep 10 01:55 |
schestowitz | She's the mother of BN | Sep 10 02:00 |
_goblin | ? I would hope not, she a Windows advocate!!! ;) | Sep 10 02:01 |
wallclimber | oh no...technogran - a windows grandma... | Sep 10 02:03 |
ick on techongranma -> @adacosta Congratulations on achieving becoming a Master Andre! | Sep 10 02:03 | |
wallclimber | maybe it's time for me to start blogging too :) | Sep 10 02:03 |
Master D'Costa! barf | Sep 10 02:04 | |
wallclimber | she looks older than me though...she uses windows, maybe she's edging towards senility | Sep 10 02:05 |
wallclimber | (i should be nice...sorry) | Sep 10 02:05 |
_Hicham_ | hi twitter | Sep 10 02:06 |
wallclimber | lol, i just saw what you wrote, roy...the mother of BN??? you're a hoot | Sep 10 02:06 |
_goblin | twitter: isnt it strange that "all roads lead to Andre" | Sep 10 02:07 |
_goblin | he's proudly displaying the latest gift he's been given.... | Sep 10 02:08 |
_goblin | some sort of plastic award....not much for all the hours he puts in. | Sep 10 02:08 |
_goblin | I actually do feel sorry for him....he truly has swallowed all pride to promote MS products.....poor lad...the power of freebies..... | Sep 10 02:09 |
_goblin | I stopped getting annoyed with him (and started to feel sorry for him) after he made a Twitter post along the lines of "Its a shame Michael Jackson never lived to see Windows 7" | Sep 10 02:10 |
_goblin | that to me was a sign of how desperate he was..... | Sep 10 02:11 |
Wicked! | Sep 10 02:14 | |
Bad! | Sep 10 02:14 | |
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wallclimber | ok, i've been clicking around the technogran stuff and every page reads like a Microsoft marketing script. bleh (i may start granny wars) | Sep 10 02:21 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 10 02:21 |
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_Hicham_ | twitter the bad boy | Sep 10 02:24 |
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M$ Minister of Disinformation http://bayimg.com/oADcdaaCn | Sep 10 02:57 | |
Will | schestowitz: You might find this link interesting: | Sep 10 02:57 |
Will | http://infoworld.com/windows-pulse | Sep 10 02:57 |
Will | schestowitz: it's Windows-only data, but look at the OpenOffice usage there. | Sep 10 02:58 |
flatline? | Sep 10 02:58 | |
code blue? | Sep 10 02:58 | |
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Will | schestowitz: From the article, the data is updated daily from nearly 20,000 monitored PCs | Sep 10 02:59 |
Is there a Pee Cee with Windows that is not monitored? | Sep 10 03:00 | |
Will | twitter: good point | Sep 10 03:00 |
Windows popcorn, opt out today, be put back in tomorrow. | Sep 10 03:01 | |
Will | but out of those PCs, between 10-15% are using OO.org | Sep 10 03:01 |
Available only for Vista, yet 65% of system run XP. Steve Balmer throws chair again. | Sep 10 03:02 | |
M$ Word, used by more sheep than any other Office program. | Sep 10 03:03 | |
Will | twitter: There were the early adopters, but people started hearing and experiencing the truth about Vista, most everyone else did everything they could to avoid replacing their PCs. | Sep 10 03:04 |
schestowitz | Will: it's MS-oriented | Sep 10 03:04 |
I doubt any of these graphs reflect reality. See above link. http://bayimg.com/oADcdaaCn | Sep 10 03:04 | |
M$ studies say, "We've already won, give up." | Sep 10 03:05 | |
They are not worth reading. | Sep 10 03:05 | |
schestowitz | Will: says nothing about the data | Sep 10 03:05 |
Will | twitter and schestowitz: I don't expect them to reflect reality. But I do expect them to give a lower bound. Probably much lower | Sep 10 03:05 |
schestowitz | People like graphs | Sep 10 03:06 |
schestowitz | They don't like to ask questiona | Sep 10 03:06 |
schestowitz | That's why utter BS like .NET Appz is taken seriously by some | Sep 10 03:06 |
Will | twitter: the only value I find in MS-studies is when they occasionally raise the lower bound, like with that Ballmer market share slide. It's very hard for the shills to refute information that comes from their master. | Sep 10 03:09 |
Will | schestowitz: Helios is planning a radio add for Linux soon. | Sep 10 03:10 |
schestowitz | Cpol. | Sep 10 03:10 |
schestowitz | Cool. | Sep 10 03:10 |
schestowitz | Got this today: | Sep 10 03:11 |
schestowitz | "So imagine what that means; if the M$ monopoly will start to crumble more rapidly once GNU-Linux reaches 20% market share, that is a much more achievable goal than, say, 51%. In other words, it is encouraging for our community to think that we could make significant headway if we reach 20%. " | Sep 10 03:11 |
schestowitz | "There is good reason to believe that GNU-Linux already has 10% market share world-wide, and if the Brazilian and Russian school deals come through, that could be an even more significant leg up." | Sep 10 03:11 |
schestowitz | It's places like Brazil where Linux adoption is HUGE | Sep 10 03:11 |
Will | schestowitz: Of course. No one but the softies ever said that Linux had to take 90% market share to be successful or implicitly regarded as an equal. They say that both because that sets an impossible bar for Linux and because that is their only concept of success. But the MS dam isn't built on the best foundation, not after Vista anyway. Just a hole here and chink there, and eventually the water will do the rest. | Sep 10 03:15 |
Will | On the matter of application support: By some estimates, Linux already meets or exceeds OSX market share, yet you still find places here and there that proudly claim support for OSX and shun Linux. | Sep 10 03:17 |
Will | So what is the difference? Is it really just the OSX marketing machine? Or something more? | Sep 10 03:18 |
Will | schestowitz: Oh, that brings to mind this: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/09/09/2216255/TomTom-Anounces-an-Open-Source-GPS-Technology?art_pos=2 | Sep 10 03:18 |
What M$ realizes is that once enough people are familiar with free software, that Windows will quickly and inevitably vanish. | Sep 10 03:19 | |
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I don't like this attitude. It is condescending and dishonest -> We also need to teach new users a method which works best for them instead of forcing a method which works best for us. | Sep 10 03:20 | |
We can only teach people what works best for ourselves, or people we know. This is not "forcing" | Sep 10 03:20 | |
schestowitz | I knew about TomTom | Sep 10 03:21 |
schestowitz | Since 2 days ago | Sep 10 03:21 |
schestowitz | About OS X, they don't count underdeveloped nations | Sep 10 03:21 |
schestowitz | Just the 'rich kids' | Sep 10 03:22 |
schestowitz | It's about revenue to them, not market share] | Sep 10 03:22 |
What are people supposed to teach, things that suck? Might as well say, "I use things that work really well. XP would be good for you." | Sep 10 03:22 | |
schestowitz | Number of $$, not # of liberated sould | Sep 10 03:22 |
schestowitz | *Sould | Sep 10 03:22 |
schestowitz | anyway, gn | Sep 10 03:22 |
Will | twitter: I'm not sure what the context of that was, but how can you teach a new user "what works best for them"? If they are new, they don't know what works best for them yet. You can just teach them what you know. | Sep 10 03:22 |
Will | gn | Sep 10 03:22 |
Right. It's a wrong headed quote from BN front page about not "forcing" command line use. | Sep 10 03:23 | |
Will | If the new user likes the way you taught them, they'll follow it. If not, they might start with your way and find their own way in time. | Sep 10 03:23 |
Will | eh. Command line is good to know, awesome for some things, and very useful for remote access. With "man" around, it really isn't that scary once you learn the basics. | Sep 10 03:25 |
Will | I don't necessarily think a user should be forced to use the command line if all they do is basic tasks | Sep 10 03:25 |
Will | but it wouldn't hurt them to learn it eventually if they want to improve their computer skills. | Sep 10 03:25 |
Will | but then people seem to be allergic to learning new things these days. | Sep 10 03:26 |
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Will | twitter: it's like this there's at least two types of computer users. Users that just want to run apps. They might write masterful documents or books, perform financial wizardry with spreadsheets, design complicated blueprints, create masterpieces with photo, image, or music software, etc. But all they need to know about a computer to do their job is how to click an icon and go to work with the individual programs. | Sep 10 03:32 |
cubezzz | grunt and point | Sep 10 03:33 |
Will | Then you have another type that really wants to get into the guts of the computer. They want to program. They want to understand how it works on a software and/or hardware level. The computer is their work. | Sep 10 03:33 |
cubezzz | no conceptual learning | Sep 10 03:33 |
Will | Linux is the best thing out there for the second type | Sep 10 03:34 |
Will | And they should learn command line. They will want to. | Sep 10 03:34 |
cubezzz | that's a very broad generalization, but probably true enough | Sep 10 03:34 |
cubezzz | you may as well say programmer/non-programmer | Sep 10 03:34 |
cubezzz | or programmer/user | Sep 10 03:34 |
Will | cubezzz: very broad, and some people will be a mix of both states | Sep 10 03:34 |
cubezzz | but you | Sep 10 03:35 |
Will | I'm just going for the general concept | Sep 10 03:35 |
cubezzz | but you're implying that users can't use any non-gui programs | Sep 10 03:35 |
Will | cubezzz: Not that they can't. Just that using non-gui programs might not really be part of/central to their main job. | Sep 10 03:36 |
Will | They might not have the time or inclination to learn the non-gui stuff. | Sep 10 03:36 |
cubezzz | Will, it wasn't that long ago that everything was done on a command line basis | Sep 10 03:37 |
cubezzz | but things have changed a lot | Sep 10 03:37 |
Will | cubezzz: very true. But people seem to have forgotten that. And many aren't old enough to remember. | Sep 10 03:37 |
cubezzz | it would benefit anyone to learn a little abstraction, I find I'm using the gui less and less | Sep 10 03:38 |
cubezzz | but then you're getting into the programmer domain more... script languages and the like | Sep 10 03:39 |
Will | I'm probably somewhere around an intermediate Linux user, but I try to think about the perspective of a new user, coming from a Windows/OSX background. I'm trying not to forget what it was like inside the Matrix. | Sep 10 03:39 |
Will | I have faith that new users will learn what they want at their own pace if they stick with Linux. I just want to make sure they aren't scared away by unfamiliarity at first. | Sep 10 03:40 |
cubezzz | it's the _real_ new users you want to get on Linux | Sep 10 03:41 |
cubezzz | as in _no_ computer experience at all | Sep 10 03:41 |
cubezzz | then there's no windows stuff to unlearn | Sep 10 03:41 |
Will | Those I'm less worried about. No preconcieved notions. Likely little FUD floating around in their heads. | Sep 10 03:41 |
Will | They'll take to Linux just fine. | Sep 10 03:42 |
Will | And have. | Sep 10 03:42 |
cubezzz | I'll give you an example... my Dad, very little computer knowledge | Sep 10 03:43 |
cubezzz | he uses windows, and he uses Linux | Sep 10 03:43 |
cubezzz | all he does is use ebay and check email | Sep 10 03:43 |
cubezzz | it didn't make much different to him either way | Sep 10 03:43 |
Will | cubezzz: And when MS people say that Linux is too hard to learn, I like pulling up stories of kids younger than 5 years old using it with no problems. | Sep 10 03:43 |
Will | cubezz: my parents were the same way. One still can't tell the difference between Windows and Linux other than the wallpaper, though they do appreciate no longer having to spend hours dealing with malware. | Sep 10 03:44 |
cubezzz | yeah, it's not really true assuming someone sets it up first | Sep 10 03:45 |
Will | If Windows was secure, relatively lightweight, and stable, there would never have been a need for me to set it up for them. | Sep 10 03:47 |
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cubezzz | it's what the schools are doing that worry me the most | Sep 10 03:53 |
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Will | cubezz: The average Windows user wouldn't be able to use Windows if it didn't come pre-setup for them. | Sep 10 03:56 |
_Hicham_ | Will : true | Sep 10 03:56 |
Will | Next time you see a Windows user being told that they need to reimage the drive because it is throughly contaminated with malware, watch for the deer-in-the-headlights look in their eyes. | Sep 10 03:57 |
cubezzz | ok, I had a somewhat radical idea about that | Sep 10 03:58 |
cubezzz | put a small operating system in the bios | Sep 10 03:59 |
Will | There's nothing innately more easier/more intuitive about Windows. | Sep 10 03:59 |
cubezzz | make it read-only | Sep 10 03:59 |
cubezzz | then if your box gets borked it can reboot right from the bios | Sep 10 03:59 |
cubezzz | at least then people could do some simple things like use the internet or check email | Sep 10 04:00 |
_Hicham_ | cubezzz : that is splashtop idea | Sep 10 04:02 |
cubezzz | or coreboot | Sep 10 04:03 |
Will | Dell did that in some of their notebooks. Called it "Latitude ON" I think. | Sep 10 04:04 |
Will | It was also a way to dodge Vista's long startup times when you just wanted to get on for 5 mintues to do internet/email. | Sep 10 04:05 |
cubezzz | let me say that these AC Adapters really really suck | Sep 10 04:06 |
cubezzz | I have about 30 of these things | Sep 10 04:06 |
Will | Dell"s adapters? | Sep 10 04:06 |
cubezzz | no, AC Adapters in general, e.g. power supplies for router, modems, etc | Sep 10 04:07 |
cubezzz | this tiny thing is supposed to supply 2 amps | Sep 10 04:08 |
cubezzz | I'm on my 3rd one for this dlink router | Sep 10 04:08 |
cubezzz | well, it has to run 24/7 and it's under-engineered | Sep 10 04:15 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] http://bit.ly/4kd8X5 The correct geek mgmt url | Sep 10 05:02 | |
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tessier | schestowitz: How's the caching working out? | Sep 10 05:52 |
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schestowitz | tessier: I can try to improve it | Sep 10 09:11 |
schestowitz | Lt me try smething | Sep 10 09:15 |
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tessier | schestowitz: Hard to know if changes have any effect at all if we cannot measure cache hit rate or some other metric. | Sep 10 09:42 |
schestowitz | There's something I haven't enable, so I'm working on it right now | Sep 10 09:43 |
schestowitz | It might improve things further | Sep 10 09:43 |
tessier | Where are the mysql queries supposedly being cached? Does it have a dir for it or something? | Sep 10 09:44 |
tessier | I see only the page cache. | Sep 10 09:44 |
schestowitz | OK, change applied | Sep 10 09:47 |
schestowitz | I changed .htaccess | Sep 10 09:47 |
schestowitz | To support supercache properly | Sep 10 09:47 |
schestowitz | Supercahce caches about 600 pages at the moment | Sep 10 09:47 |
schestowitz | With expiry time of about 10 hours | Sep 10 09:47 |
schestowitz | DB-cache runs too | Sep 10 09:47 |
schestowitz | tessier: yes, I wondered where DB cache is stored too | Sep 10 09:48 |
schestowitz | I don't know | Sep 10 09:48 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Musicians hit out at piracy plans - So much for "we speak for the poor artists" http://tinyurl.com/mutu8x | Sep 10 09:48 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] just broke my double-sized coffee mug. how annoying. | Sep 10 09:49 | |
schestowitz | I can add the php code for query stats to wordpress (manually) | Sep 10 09:49 |
schestowitz | What was that PHP command again? | Sep 10 09:49 |
schestowitz | fish:// is working sporadically for me now. Strange behaviour. | Sep 10 09:59 |
schestowitz | Oh, <? loadstats(); ?>, I see. | Sep 10 10:00 |
schestowitz | <!-- Generated in 2.289 seconds. Made 123 queries to database and 28 cached queries. Memory used - 25.46MB --> | Sep 10 10:02 |
schestowitz | <!-- Cached by DB Cache --> | Sep 10 10:02 |
schestowitz | That's for http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/12/microsoft-sneaks-out/ | Sep 10 10:02 |
schestowitz | This page was not cached by supercache afaik | Sep 10 10:03 |
schestowitz | WHich means it needed to be generated, not just delivered | Sep 10 10:03 |
tessier | If you hit that same page again does it come up much faster? | Sep 10 10:05 |
schestowitz | Let me try | Sep 10 10:05 |
schestowitz | I wonder if db-cache somehow overrides the latter | Sep 10 10:05 |
schestowitz | It seems to redo the same thing | Sep 10 10:06 |
schestowitz | BUT.... | Sep 10 10:06 |
schestowitz | I wonder if the query stats get cached too | Sep 10 10:06 |
schestowitz | Let's see if the timestamp changes | Sep 10 10:06 |
schestowitz | Ahh... | Sep 10 10:07 |
schestowitz | It just caches query stats | Sep 10 10:07 |
schestowitz | So what you see in cached pages probably required a look at the timestamp at the bottom | Sep 10 10:07 |
tessier | <!-- Generated in 2.101 seconds. Made 121 queries to database and 30 cached queries. Memory used - 25.38MB --> | Sep 10 10:07 |
schestowitz | See timestamp though. | Sep 10 10:08 |
schestowitz | It doesn't change if you refresh | Sep 10 10:08 |
tessier | ah | Sep 10 10:08 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Enjoying a coffee by the Thames. Seen more brompton bikes than ever. | Sep 10 10:08 | |
schestowitz | SO this basically shows stats for the time when it was generated dynamically, then cached | Sep 10 10:08 |
schestowitz | I also improved something in super-cache | Sep 10 10:08 |
schestowitz | I'm bad at vi editing | Sep 10 10:08 |
schestowitz | I tried finding an X-enabled editor on the server | Sep 10 10:09 |
schestowitz | Since I can't get fish:// to work reliably | Sep 10 10:09 |
tessier | emacs is on there although I don't usually compile it with X | Sep 10 10:09 |
schestowitz | Yeah, I saw it | Sep 10 10:09 |
schestowitz | Text mode | Sep 10 10:09 |
schestowitz | ed also | Sep 10 10:09 |
schestowitz | I did apropos edit | Sep 10 10:09 |
schestowitz | Cache Contents | Sep 10 10:10 |
schestowitz | WP-Cache | Sep 10 10:10 |
schestowitz | * 236 Cached Pages | Sep 10 10:10 |
schestowitz | * 31 Expired Pages | Sep 10 10:10 |
schestowitz | WP-Super-Cache | Sep 10 10:10 |
schestowitz | * 577 Cached Pages | Sep 10 10:10 |
schestowitz | * 69 Expired Pages | Sep 10 10:11 |
schestowitz | Garbage Collection | Sep 10 10:11 |
schestowitz | Last: 2009-09-09 20:14:12 | Sep 10 10:11 |
schestowitz | Next: 2009-09-09 20:24:12 | Sep 10 10:11 |
schestowitz | load average: 0.61, 0.66, 0.67 | Sep 10 10:14 |
schestowitz | I wonder if this apparent improvement (if any, I can't see the DB load) is a long-term thing | Sep 10 10:15 |
schestowitz | Have DB queries/sec improved since we first began caching differently? | Sep 10 10:15 |
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tessier | Not sure how to measure db queries/sec. | Sep 10 10:30 |
tessier | Awesome...munin is still graphing boycottnovell.com | Sep 10 10:31 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Just recorded a new HPR, pity I have to use RecordMyDesktop and strip the audio first. Damn Audacity!! | Sep 10 10:31 | |
tessier | And cpu usage has not gone down at all. So the cache is so far ineffective. | Sep 10 10:31 |
schestowitz | tessier: when I had the admin front end for mysql it measured uiptime and query volume | Sep 10 10:32 |
schestowitz | Was it like this for months (the load)? | Sep 10 10:32 |
schestowitz | I haven't added any plugin that might be slowing it down | Sep 10 10:33 |
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tessier | It has been like this all along. Not a big deal but it would be nice to make pageloads faster and reduce susceptibility to DoS | Sep 10 10:36 |
*tessier goes to bed | Sep 10 10:36 | |
schestowitz | When I was with cpanel I could see query volume | Sep 10 10:36 |
tessier | night all | Sep 10 10:36 |
schestowitz | In March we had like 300q/sec | Sep 10 10:36 |
schestowitz | Then I added cache | Sep 10 10:36 |
schestowitz | Took it down to about 75 | Sep 10 10:37 |
schestowitz | It was quadc ore | Sep 10 10:37 |
schestowitz | *core | Sep 10 10:37 |
schestowitz | So it used to be a lot worse | Sep 10 10:37 |
schestowitz | Nigh, tessier | Sep 10 10:37 |
schestowitz | *night | Sep 10 10:37 |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Former/Existing #Microsoft #FrontGroup ( #CAGW ) Still Paid by Companies to Derail Rivals | Sep 10 10:56 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Anti- #RedHat Whitepapers from #Novell, More # Mono / .NET Convergence http://bit.ly/19WwWv | Sep 10 11:23 | |
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schestowitz | tessier: this page takes ages to load < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/22/microsoft-taskforce-vs-walmart-linux/ > and I can think of another that caused a similar issue. I have no idea what's unique about them. | Sep 10 11:30 |
schestowitz | This might explain the slowness in general. | Sep 10 11:31 |
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trmanco | schestowitz: that page loads fast | Sep 10 11:50 |
trmanco | or it load at a reasonable rate | Sep 10 11:50 |
trmanco | loads* | Sep 10 11:50 |
trmanco | <!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 7.961 seconds --> | Sep 10 11:51 |
trmanco | it didn't take 7 seconds | Sep 10 11:51 |
trmanco | 8* | Sep 10 11:51 |
oiaohm | I really wish we could split the comments away from the artical schestowitz | Sep 10 11:52 |
oiaohm | I suspect the speed problem is the comments schestowitz | Sep 10 11:53 |
oiaohm | Particularly long winded comments that have to be checked against db. | Sep 10 11:54 |
schestowitz | trmanco: cause it's cached now | Sep 10 11:55 |
schestowitz | It gave me 70 seconds | Sep 10 11:55 |
trmanco | it can be the comment or that huge pasted text | Sep 10 11:56 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, comments may be it | Sep 10 11:56 |
schestowitz | Based on the JOINs tessier showed | Sep 10 11:56 |
trmanco | check different one that big like that with no comments | Sep 10 11:56 |
trmanco | a | Sep 10 11:56 |
oiaohm | In one way have a set up to drop displaying comments and adding comments in case of high load would help to protect server better. | Sep 10 12:01 |
oiaohm | Had a fun one today. HP laptop. Not working web cam and a lot of other bits. Turned on virtualisation support in bios by by problem. How does disabling virutalisation support in bios end up with no web cam no idea. | Sep 10 12:09 |
oiaohm | But it does. | Sep 10 12:10 |
trmanco | strange | Sep 10 12:10 |
oiaohm | webcam has USB id numbers when virtualisation is enabed. | Sep 10 12:10 |
oiaohm | When not it has 0000:0000 as id. | Sep 10 12:10 |
oiaohm | Yep nasty firmware fault in there somewhere. | Sep 10 12:10 |
schestowitz | SOme Web cams are poorly supported | Sep 10 12:11 |
oiaohm | The thing works. | Sep 10 12:11 |
oiaohm | It a inbuilt hp webcam into laptop. | Sep 10 12:11 |
oiaohm | With a hp bios causing the screw up. | Sep 10 12:11 |
oiaohm | Remember 0000:0000 id is only ment to come from device 1 on a usb bus when there are no more devices to find. | Sep 10 12:12 |
oiaohm | Not like device 16 as the webcam was either. | Sep 10 12:12 |
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oiaohm | It the first time I have seen disabling virtualisation as harmful. | Sep 10 12:14 |
oiaohm | I forget the say the best bit. The virtualisation disable only corrects when you remove the battery a reboot does not do it. | Sep 10 12:16 |
trmanco | wow | Sep 10 12:19 |
ThistleWeb | if webcams are badly supported, wouldn't that be a selling point for parents wanting to ensure their kids ain't doing strip shows for their boyfriends etc? | Sep 10 12:20 |
ThistleWeb | well, from the PC at least | Sep 10 12:21 |
oiaohm | Nothing stoping them pluging in another web cam. | Sep 10 12:23 |
oiaohm | It was only the one embed in the device not working ThistleWeb | Sep 10 12:24 |
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ThistleWeb | other than the other webcam not being well supported either | Sep 10 12:24 |
ThistleWeb | k | Sep 10 12:24 |
trmanco | oops | Sep 10 12:24 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My own summary: Microsoft’s Anti- #GNU #Linux Training Comes to #OfficeDepot, Not Just #BestBuy and #Staples http://ur1.ca/bfzx | Sep 10 12:28 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] younger teen's new pink socks in colour wash. everything tinted pink. GAH. rebleaching. | Sep 10 12:41 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] http://is.gd/36CFl #pedigreedogs | Sep 10 13:46 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Musicians who understand that filesharers are doing what they did with cassettes http://is.gd/36D1J | Sep 10 13:49 | |
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The commercial viability of RFC 1149 confirmed http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8248056.stm | Sep 10 13:53 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat : #Microsoft Marketed Its Patents for #Trolls to Attack #FreeSoftware http://ping.fm/kP4N2 | Sep 10 13:56 | |
schestowitz | Dell shoots low for SMBs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/dell_smb_boxes/ > | Sep 10 13:57 |
schestowitz | Shoots own foot? | Sep 10 13:57 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm, the quad core Xeons are actually not that much more expensive than the Core 2 Quads | Sep 10 14:04 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I'm messing about with #kde4 widgets that handle microblogging. I'm still loving #kde very much. | Sep 10 14:08 | |
schestowitz | I got lancelot working as a widget | Sep 10 14:08 |
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DaemonFC | schestowitz: Acer is dumping more laptops at netbook prices | Sep 10 14:11 |
schestowitz | Let them | Sep 10 14:12 |
schestowitz | real netbook price is $200 | Sep 10 14:12 |
schestowitz | Not what Microsoft made of these | Sep 10 14:12 |
schestowitz | foxconn is making sub-$100 PCs with Linux | Sep 10 14:13 |
schestowitz | /$/£/ | Sep 10 14:13 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I think Microsoft must be waiving the Vista license fees | Sep 10 14:13 |
DaemonFC | for certain "approved" laptops | Sep 10 14:13 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #eMusic #fail http://ruthi.dreamwidth.org/10695.html | Sep 10 14:14 | |
DaemonFC | it's the only way they could get them down that cheap | Sep 10 14:14 |
schestowitz | Baby swing vid man cut loose < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/baby_swing_dropped/ > Look at that.. | Sep 10 14:14 |
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schestowitz | Eruaran: KDE4 is amazing! | Sep 10 14:16 |
Eruaran | hi schestowitz | Sep 10 14:16 |
schestowitz | I'm on the latest version at the moment. It's a winner. | Sep 10 14:16 |
Eruaran | 4.3 is very good | Sep 10 14:16 |
schestowitz | Now it just needs more marketing | Sep 10 14:16 |
schestowitz | I'm on 4.3.1, Eruaran | Sep 10 14:16 |
DaemonFC | Comcast has a recorded greeting from Ben Stein on their 800 number | Sep 10 14:16 |
DaemonFC | yuck | Sep 10 14:16 |
schestowitz | Ben Stein is a dick | Sep 10 14:17 |
DaemonFC | must have had some time off from being a douche | Sep 10 14:17 |
schestowitz | EC to tackle 'misleading' online gadget sellers < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09/09/ec_probes_gagdet_websites/ > | Sep 10 14:17 |
DaemonFC | I had more money left over than I had budgeted for | Sep 10 14:18 |
DaemonFC | so I'm taking out some of next months bills | Sep 10 14:18 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: there's good reason for Linux folks to be enthusiastic about the future. GNOME has a lot to do to catch up and competition is good. Vista that I used on display at the airport is WELL behind | Sep 10 14:18 |
Eruaran | W7 is well behind... and boring | Sep 10 14:19 |
schestowitz | Ben Stein is a shill for flying(R) spaghetti(R) monsters :-) | Sep 10 14:19 |
DaemonFC | Vista was way too damned heavy, and that was 3 years ago | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: well, it's V7... VIsta | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | They spent no time on it | Sep 10 14:20 |
DaemonFC | it still doesn't run well on "fast" systems from this year | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | First SPs | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | Then some new UI stuff | Sep 10 14:20 |
Eruaran | The best thing about V7 is the architecture wallpapers | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | Illusion of novelty | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | Quick glance at OS X and KDE4 | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: let me show you a memo | Sep 10 14:20 |
schestowitz | How Microsoft 'innovates' | Sep 10 14:20 |
Eruaran | They drink coffee and trawl kde blogs for ideas | Sep 10 14:21 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Lotus_Exhibits | Sep 10 14:21 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Competitive_analysis_of_Lotus_Notes/Domino_R5 http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Enabling_Exchange_through_detailed_anaysis_of_Notes/Domino_and_DECS%2C_IBM_threat_to_Knowledge_Workers | Sep 10 14:21 |
schestowitz | They just look at rivals' products and copy | Sep 10 14:22 |
Eruaran | thats news ? | Sep 10 14:22 |
schestowitz | "I don’t understand how IE is going to win. The current path is simply to copy everything that Netscape does packaging and product wise." --Jim Allchin, President of Platforms & Services Division at Microsoft | Sep 10 14:22 |
schestowitz | I have a memo of them copying OS X too | Sep 10 14:22 |
Eruaran | they have to copy, they have never fostered a culture of real innovation | Sep 10 14:23 |
Eruaran | copying others is all they know | Sep 10 14:23 |
Eruaran | Or stealing | Sep 10 14:23 |
schestowitz | Here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/14/innovation-lie-swpatents/ | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | == | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | From; Vic Gundotra | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | Sent; Wednesday, 3une 30, 2004 8:29 AM | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | To: Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Will Poole; Joe Peterson | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | Cc; Sanjay Pathasarathy; Chrles Fitzgerald | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | Subject: RE: tiger | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | Steve is trying hard to retain the developers he has left. | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | He showed “spotlight” functionality embedded in 4 different apps, then highlighted that developers can build (and should build) the same functionality in their apps, | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | I have SDK – will send to Quentin | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | They even showed a bit of extensibility in their design. | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | == | Sep 10 14:24 |
schestowitz | This is handy when Microsoft says that everyone just "copies Windows" | Sep 10 14:25 |
schestowitz | or Exchange | Sep 10 14:25 |
schestowitz | Exchange is a Lotus ripoff | Sep 10 14:25 |
schestowitz | Exploder is a Netscape feature-by-feature copy | Sep 10 14:25 |
schestowitz | Word also.. | Sep 10 14:25 |
Eruaran | have you seen kde's widget builder thing | Sep 10 14:27 |
schestowitz | Not yet | Sep 10 14:28 |
Eruaran | to make it easy to make widgets and add your own little bit of ecmascript or whatever | Sep 10 14:28 |
schestowitz | Funny that you mention it now | Sep 10 14:28 |
schestowitz | Just a moment ago I micro-blogged about widgets | Sep 10 14:28 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Lancelot in #kde looks fantastic and works really well. The #plasma team also has a spark for design. | Sep 10 14:29 | |
DaemonFC | Progressive's automated system is so twitchy that if you breathe in it confuses it | Sep 10 14:29 |
Eruaran | they are building a platform that will open up the development of cool widgety things to the widest number of people ever | Sep 10 14:29 |
DaemonFC | I had to re-enter my account number twice, once cause I took a deep breath and once cause I closed a door | Sep 10 14:29 |
Eruaran | and it has network features | Sep 10 14:29 |
Eruaran | widgets over the network | Sep 10 14:29 |
schestowitz | I see..... | Sep 10 14:29 |
schestowitz | Well, I'm going through the list of what's installed by deafult | Sep 10 14:30 |
schestowitz | It's a lot more than what I found in 4.1 | Sep 10 14:30 |
DaemonFC | then it couldn't understand how I wanted to pay, so I got to do that over 3 times | Sep 10 14:30 |
schestowitz | It's all SO beautiful (shiny! :-) ) | Sep 10 14:30 |
DaemonFC | then by the end it was like "I understand you want to....blah blah blah blah blah" I was like "Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes!!!!" | Sep 10 14:30 |
DaemonFC | I hate these things | Sep 10 14:30 |
schestowitz | CTRL+F12 is similar to what Mac OS X achieves | Sep 10 14:30 |
DaemonFC | they must be using vista :) | Sep 10 14:30 |
schestowitz | Puts desktop in focus by shading apps | Sep 10 14:31 |
Eruaran | schestowitz: the KDE team are building a platform that would take Microsoft YEARS to copy... | Sep 10 14:31 |
DaemonFC | meh, KDE still feels wrong | Sep 10 14:31 |
DaemonFC | and misses a few things I use entirely | Sep 10 14:32 |
Eruaran | Watch Microsoft try to cozy up with Nokia in the hope that they can screw up Qt | Sep 10 14:32 |
schestowitz | That has already happened | Sep 10 14:32 |
schestowitz | But Nokia has plans with Linux too | Sep 10 14:32 |
DaemonFC | and VLC is too stupid to figure out what my microphone is without Pulseaudio there to redirect it | Sep 10 14:32 |
Eruaran | Nokia loves its Maemo | Sep 10 14:32 |
schestowitz | They are ambivalent | Sep 10 14:32 |
schestowitz | And Symbian too | Sep 10 14:32 |
MinceR | nokia doesn't love its maemo enough | Sep 10 14:32 |
schestowitz | Not enough $$ | Sep 10 14:33 |
MinceR | the n97 gets some nice hw elements the n900 doesn't | Sep 10 14:33 |
schestowitz | n900 will hopefully bring their home some bacon | Sep 10 14:33 |
schestowitz | THen they'll love Linux more | Sep 10 14:33 |
MinceR | (digital compass, apparently the headset connector) | Sep 10 14:33 |
Eruaran | I don't use Pulseaudio | Sep 10 14:33 |
Eruaran | its evil | Sep 10 14:33 |
DaemonFC | I don't have a choice | Sep 10 14:33 |
MinceR | (for me the latter is critical, but i'll wait until it's officially out, just to be sure) | Sep 10 14:33 |
schestowitz | Is the compass for mapping? | Sep 10 14:33 |
schestowitz | Why not gps? | Sep 10 14:33 |
MinceR | mostly | Sep 10 14:33 |
schestowitz | Who needs a compass these days? | Sep 10 14:33 |
MinceR | gps can't reliably determine your direction when walking | Sep 10 14:33 |
schestowitz | I see | Sep 10 14:34 |
schestowitz | Yeah.. | Sep 10 14:34 |
schestowitz | I thought about it as I went along | Sep 10 14:34 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: People that don't want to pay $300 plus map update costs of $80 a year | Sep 10 14:34 |
MinceR | and the accelerometer can even find out the rest of the bearing of the device | Sep 10 14:34 |
DaemonFC | I would imagine | Sep 10 14:34 |
schestowitz | Satellite can't determine more than just absolute position | Sep 10 14:34 |
schestowitz | Unless! | Sep 10 14:34 |
schestowitz | You walk | Sep 10 14:34 |
MinceR | AR works better with compass | Sep 10 14:34 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I still use a map | Sep 10 14:34 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 10 14:35 |
DaemonFC | I hate those GPS systems | Sep 10 14:35 |
DaemonFC | they usually get you more turned around than the map does | Sep 10 14:35 |
schestowitz | I have all the map I need inside my head :-) | Sep 10 14:35 |
Eruaran | heard an interesting term recently | Sep 10 14:35 |
DaemonFC | and they sound like Napoleon Dynamite is reading off directions | Sep 10 14:35 |
Eruaran | The "Stallman Paradox" | Sep 10 14:35 |
MinceR | i don't have the entire map of the Budapest Maze in my head | Sep 10 14:35 |
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Eruaran | oh | Sep 10 14:35 |
Eruaran | But Napoleon Dynamite is cool | Sep 10 14:36 |
schestowitz | ALso Freedonware manifesto | Sep 10 14:36 |
Eruaran | Especially for prank calls | Sep 10 14:36 |
MinceR | (when you randomly need to go left so you can turn right later, and where being allowed to turn left is a very rare, precious event in the inner city) | Sep 10 14:36 |
Eruaran | There's a comedy show in Britan | Sep 10 14:36 |
DaemonFC | More recertified Zunes up for sale :P | Sep 10 14:36 |
DaemonFC | no expansion slot, only works with Windows, no Vorbis or FLAC support | Sep 10 14:36 |
Eruaran | Where the GPS gives funny directions | Sep 10 14:36 |
schestowitz | certified for what? | Sep 10 14:36 |
MinceR | (not to mention the lack of proper signs) | Sep 10 14:36 |
DaemonFC | any takers? :) | Sep 10 14:36 |
schestowitz | Amnesty bin? | Sep 10 14:36 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I got a free Zune | Sep 10 14:37 |
DaemonFC | it went onto ebay without me even opening it | Sep 10 14:37 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/monopoly_city_streets_down_on_debut/Google Maps Monopoly board folds under server strain | Sep 10 14:37 |
Eruaran | lol thats one of the things in those Best Buy screenies | Sep 10 14:37 |
Eruaran | No Zune support... I fell over laughing | Sep 10 14:37 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: any bidders? | Sep 10 14:37 |
schestowitz | Put it up as "iPod ripoff" | Sep 10 14:38 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I got rid of it for about $100 actually | Sep 10 14:38 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: Only reason I could think of bidding on a Zune is for a historic piece. | Sep 10 14:38 |
schestowitz | "boxed as new (And needs dusting)" | Sep 10 14:38 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: Live Services | Sep 10 14:38 |
oiaohm | Ie hoping it becomes a rare item to complete some computer display of historic bits. | Sep 10 14:38 |
Eruaran | I know someone who has an Atari 1040ST kept in its original box wrapped up | Sep 10 14:38 |
schestowitz | aka Bong Dead Services | Sep 10 14:38 |
Eruaran | He got it out one night | Sep 10 14:39 |
schestowitz | Linux doesn't support it | Sep 10 14:39 |
schestowitz | I guess Microsoft won't support it | Sep 10 14:39 |
schestowitz | How convenient | Sep 10 14:39 |
oiaohm | Live Services kind runs in wine. | Sep 10 14:39 |
Eruaran | It was absolutely mint... so shiny and new looking I thought I'd been time warped back to the 1980's | Sep 10 14:39 |
oiaohm | I do mean kinda. | Sep 10 14:39 |
DaemonFC | who would buy a player with no expansion slot? | Sep 10 14:39 |
DaemonFC | if nothing else | Sep 10 14:39 |
DaemonFC | that should flag it as a shitty deal by itself | Sep 10 14:40 |
Eruaran | A Windows user | Sep 10 14:40 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: with those formats? | Sep 10 14:40 |
DaemonFC | unless it's a hard drive player | Sep 10 14:40 |
schestowitz | it's likle keeping a BEtaMax device | Sep 10 14:40 |
DaemonFC | but the flash oens only have 4-8 gigs | Sep 10 14:40 |
schestowitz | I mean, WMA? I mean, come on.. | Sep 10 14:40 |
DaemonFC | *ones | Sep 10 14:40 |
schestowitz | That won't play for much longer | Sep 10 14:40 |
Eruaran | schestowitz: Only Betamax was more widely used ;) | Sep 10 14:40 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: They do kind of support WMA Pro | Sep 10 14:40 |
oiaohm | WMA kind works in wine and mplayer using windows own codecs. | Sep 10 14:40 |
oiaohm | If you call needing a windows licence to wine working that is where the kinda comes form. | Sep 10 14:41 |
Eruaran | All this talk about historic pieces and betamax has given me an urge to watch the original Jaws... | Sep 10 14:42 |
oiaohm | I think i have at long last to to the debian reinstall point unless I can come up with a creative idea. Most audio playback is now gabled. | Sep 10 14:42 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: The only reason I have Windows Media Player installed is for WMV support in a couple Microsoft games | Sep 10 14:42 |
Eruaran | And maybe Star Wars | Sep 10 14:42 |
schestowitz | "Microsoft has promised to patch a serious flaw in newer versions of its Windows operating system after hackers released exploit code that allows them to take complete control of the underlying machines." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/microsoft_windows_security_bug/ | Sep 10 14:42 |
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DaemonFC | Fable actually used WMV and Ogg Vorbis | Sep 10 14:42 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC the super encoder | Sep 10 14:42 |
Eruaran | I've been told the iRiver supports the most formats | Sep 10 14:43 |
Eruaran | (and what kind of a name is iRiver anyway ?) | Sep 10 14:43 |
DaemonFC | I've tested out the Sansa Fuze, still no WMA Pro support | Sep 10 14:43 |
oiaohm | iRiver most of them can have firmware replace with a Linux based done to it Eruaran | Sep 10 14:43 |
DaemonFC | it does support HE-AAC though | Sep 10 14:43 |
oiaohm | So yep basically everything. | Sep 10 14:43 |
DaemonFC | I think Sandisk started supporting FLAC and Vorbis so people would quit tryingto flash them with Rockbox | Sep 10 14:44 |
DaemonFC | botch the flash | Sep 10 14:44 |
DaemonFC | and return them | Sep 10 14:44 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: | Sep 10 14:44 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 10 14:44 |
schestowitz | Hackers reportedly knocked over the website of Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd for a few minutes on Wednesday in an apparent protest against government plans for compulsory internet content filtering. | Sep 10 14:44 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/oz_filtering_protest/ | Sep 10 14:44 |
Eruaran | ah | Sep 10 14:44 |
Eruaran | nice to know hackers are still thriving | Sep 10 14:44 |
oiaohm | Yep the annoymous hacker group at work schestowitz | Sep 10 14:44 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: crackers? | Sep 10 14:45 |
schestowitz | MAybe this is marginal. They actually protest against a cause worth opposing | Sep 10 14:45 |
schestowitz | Though DDOS would achieve nothing | Sep 10 14:45 |
schestowitz | This would help: http://notnews.today.com/?p=637 | Sep 10 14:45 |
DaemonFC | hmm, they have Netgear Wireless N routers for $30 | Sep 10 14:45 |
DaemonFC | I'm still not thrilled with Wifi if I can avoid it | Sep 10 14:46 |
DaemonFC | I'd rather run an ethernet cable | Sep 10 14:46 |
schestowitz | wifi=radiation? | Sep 10 14:47 |
DaemonFC | wifi=shitty connections and random drops | Sep 10 14:47 |
oiaohm | Wifi connection= sitting duck. | Sep 10 14:48 |
DaemonFC | yeah, plus the FCC now claims they're above the 4th amendment | Sep 10 14:48 |
schestowitz | Yikes! German Pirate Party MP charged in child porn case < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/german_mp_tauss_charged_over_child_prn/ > | Sep 10 14:48 |
DaemonFC | saying they can come in your house without a warrant to "inspect the router" | Sep 10 14:48 |
schestowitz | Cause you can "promote terrorism" with an open connection | Sep 10 14:49 |
schestowitz | That German Pirate Party is disgracing the other pirate parties | Sep 10 14:49 |
oiaohm | You router is a active combat device. | Sep 10 14:49 |
zlg | encripted WiFi nodes can be very easily broken as well. | Sep 10 14:50 |
schestowitz | Unless someone planted the stuff to frame him | Sep 10 14:50 |
schestowitz | With Windows, people are sometimes accused of possessing stuff that's injected, like malware | Sep 10 14:50 |
oiaohm | Only WiFI enterprise has not been broken yet zlg | Sep 10 14:50 |
schestowitz | Remember the teacher incident and pr0nographic popup in class? | Sep 10 14:50 |
schestowitz | zlg: yes, WEP and WAP | Sep 10 14:50 |
oiaohm | Everything else ie what most home users use has been cracked threw some method. | Sep 10 14:50 |
zlg | good, it would really suck if you could not get a secure Wifi. | Sep 10 14:51 |
DaemonFC | wow, I took out my cable and car insurance, and I'm 2 weeks ahead on my rent, and I'm still ahead | Sep 10 14:51 |
DaemonFC | how the hell did that happen? | Sep 10 14:51 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 14:51 |
oiaohm | Ok really who needs to crack in to damage a business zlg | Sep 10 14:51 |
DaemonFC | think I'll go fill up the gas tank before I figure out where all this money came from, lol | Sep 10 14:52 |
oiaohm | If you transmit too strong on the wifi channels you will break the recievers in most wifi devices. | Sep 10 14:52 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : a lot of people | Sep 10 14:52 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: Microsoft pays you well? :-) | Sep 10 14:52 |
oiaohm | So effectively nuking them out of existance. | Sep 10 14:52 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Never been paid by Microsoft | Sep 10 14:52 |
schestowitz | Edelman? | Sep 10 14:52 |
schestowitz | :-p | Sep 10 14:52 |
zlg | there was a doco here in Aus about a group in the US "wardriving" and sitting outside a major chain store stealing credit card numbers as they were cleared. | Sep 10 14:52 |
zlg | after hours. | Sep 10 14:53 |
DaemonFC | Unless when you count that I couldn't say anything bad about the Zune or XBOX 360 if someone was asking me about them while I was in management at Walmart | Sep 10 14:53 |
schestowitz | Really? | Sep 10 14:53 |
schestowitz | Implicit memo? | Sep 10 14:53 |
DaemonFC | I just bit my tongue and reiterated the specifications from Microsoft | Sep 10 14:53 |
schestowitz | Or explicit? | Sep 10 14:53 |
DaemonFC | it was expected | Sep 10 14:53 |
trmanco | can "idiot proof" be a offending expression? | Sep 10 14:53 |
trmanco | an | Sep 10 14:53 |
schestowitz | No need to mock it | Sep 10 14:54 |
trmanco | like "Ubuntu is idiot proof"? | Sep 10 14:54 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: you just say "Zune" | Sep 10 14:54 |
DaemonFC | if sales went down in my areas and I caused the problem, solving the problem involved firing me | Sep 10 14:54 |
DaemonFC | it's implied | Sep 10 14:54 |
oiaohm | No OS is idiot proof. Idiots are creative. | Sep 10 14:54 |
schestowitz | The crappiness is implied from the brand name | Sep 10 14:54 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Thos gPCs did sell out almost immediately | Sep 10 14:54 |
DaemonFC | and we got no returns | Sep 10 14:54 |
schestowitz | Microsoft pushed Wal-Mart to drop Linux | Sep 10 14:55 |
DaemonFC | so I highly suspect the "high returns" claim was a lie everywhere | Sep 10 14:55 |
schestowitz | There's the memo we have | Sep 10 14:55 |
oiaohm | There were some bad Linux products. | Sep 10 14:55 |
oiaohm | The high returns come from those bad products. | Sep 10 14:55 |
Eruaran | Not only is the "high returns" claim a lie, we still have customers who want Linux netbooks. | Sep 10 14:55 |
schestowitz | MSI | Sep 10 14:55 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Nobody expects much from a $200 PC | Sep 10 14:55 |
schestowitz | They put SUSE on netbooks !!!! | Sep 10 14:55 |
schestowitz | No customisation | Sep 10 14:55 |
schestowitz | Just tossed SUSE on it | Sep 10 14:56 |
schestowitz | No updates, nothing | Sep 10 14:56 |
schestowitz | It just bvroke | Sep 10 14:56 |
DaemonFC | I doubt they brought it back because it couldn't do anything that could be reasonably expected from a $200 PC | Sep 10 14:56 |
schestowitz | As expcetd from negligence | Sep 10 14:56 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: when you have a badly installed OS that dies on the first day they kinda get returned. | Sep 10 14:56 |
schestowitz | ASUS said return rates were the same for win and lin | Sep 10 14:56 |
schestowitz | Jerry Shen said so | Sep 10 14:56 |
Eruaran | Dell said the same | Sep 10 14:56 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: People who asked me about them, I recommended formatting the disc and installing another distribution when they got home | Sep 10 14:56 |
DaemonFC | I tried out gOS just for fun | Sep 10 14:56 |
oiaohm | Most did not get that recommendation DaemonFC | Sep 10 14:57 |
Eruaran | Dell has already announced new Ubuntu netbooks before Windows 7 appears | Sep 10 14:57 |
Eruaran | I think its cause they know Microsoft's crippleware is a bad idea | Sep 10 14:57 |
schestowitz | Yeah. | Sep 10 14:57 |
oiaohm | Basically the bad numbers were also partly the fault of badly trained staff. | Sep 10 14:57 |
schestowitz | Kubuntu 9.10 will rock | Sep 10 14:57 |
schestowitz | I run the alpha | Sep 10 14:57 |
schestowitz | It's like totally stable and finished | Sep 10 14:57 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz the tester | Sep 10 14:57 |
schestowitz | I report a few bugs here and there, maybe one a day. Some "wishlist" | Sep 10 14:58 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: join the club. | Sep 10 14:58 |
schestowitz | What do you use now?S | Sep 10 14:58 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I originally started out stocking shelves in the frozen food department, then the department manager quit and I replaced her | Sep 10 14:58 |
schestowitz | Still OpenBallnux? | Sep 10 14:58 |
DaemonFC | then 6 months after that they had a salaried assistant manager position I took | Sep 10 14:58 |
_Hicham_ | me ? | Sep 10 14:58 |
DaemonFC | but the rule there is you have to switch stores | Sep 10 14:58 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: she got cold feet | Sep 10 14:58 |
Eruaran | Microsoft expects OEM's to pre-install Windows 7 Starter Edition (Crippled Edition)... Dell clearly has other ideas: Not aggrivating your customers being one. | Sep 10 14:58 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: funny | Sep 10 14:59 |
oiaohm | Eruaran: no Dell has ideas of getting Ms windows from MS again for nothing. | Sep 10 14:59 |
schestowitz | Eruaran: won't work | Sep 10 14:59 |
Eruaran | perhaps | Sep 10 14:59 |
schestowitz | Not for long | Sep 10 14:59 |
oiaohm | Hardware companies don't want to pay any more. | Sep 10 14:59 |
schestowitz | "Acer and Intel, for example, are already complaining that Windows 7 Starter Edition simply won't sell." | Sep 10 14:59 |
oiaohm | MS has some big problems. | Sep 10 14:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.bmighty.com/blog/main/archives/2009/05/is_microsoft_he.html | Sep 10 14:59 |
Eruaran | I don't think Dell is dangling the carrot | Sep 10 14:59 |
schestowitz | People will get talking and then ask shop to offer something else | Sep 10 14:59 |
zlg | that's because it's cripped to hell | Sep 10 14:59 |
DaemonFC | the assistant manager positions are a joke, they do pay you more if you're willing to transfer more often though | Sep 10 15:00 |
Eruaran | to get a better deal out of M$ | Sep 10 15:00 |
schestowitz | Even XP will be better than Vista 7 on 'mini-laptops' | Sep 10 15:00 |
DaemonFC | and "promotion opportunities" come with being "flexible" :) | Sep 10 15:00 |
Eruaran | Starter is seriously crippled in a very bad way | Sep 10 15:00 |
schestowitz | Microsoft will sell these still.. at like $500 apiece | Sep 10 15:00 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : what is OpenBallnux ? | Sep 10 15:00 |
schestowitz | Next to a $189 ARM machine with Ubuntu it will fail | Sep 10 15:00 |
DaemonFC | if you aren't willing to transfer, then after about 5 years as an assistant manager, you get pay capped | Sep 10 15:00 |
DaemonFC | and you just never really do move on | Sep 10 15:00 |
schestowitz | So more indocrinated/bribed staff is to be expected | Sep 10 15:00 |
schestowitz | FUlly-loaded propaganda mode | Sep 10 15:00 |
zlg | I bet all the files are there for the higher versiosn as well, and a call to the mother ship and a credit card will get you an auto-upgrade. | Sep 10 15:01 |
Eruaran | Microsoft's strategy will fail - it will have a worse PR effect than Vista. | Sep 10 15:01 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'll tell you how bad Walmart pays their assistant managers | Sep 10 15:01 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's opensuse | Sep 10 15:02 |
DaemonFC | I got about $13,000 /yr raise leaving them to take the same position at Rent-A-Center | Sep 10 15:02 |
schestowitz | That's a low wage | Sep 10 15:02 |
schestowitz | No offence intended | Sep 10 15:02 |
schestowitz | That's Wal-Mart | Sep 10 15:02 |
Eruaran | You push crippleware that is so badly crippled that people can't even change the wallpaper/background... You ought to expect to get absolutely flogged. | Sep 10 15:02 |
schestowitz | Pay as little as they can get away with | Sep 10 15:02 |
schestowitz | Wal-Mart=Marxism | Sep 10 15:03 |
DaemonFC | Walmart was paying me about $32,000 a year | Sep 10 15:03 |
Eruaran | Apple will have a field day with 'Starter Edition'... I can see the adds now... | Sep 10 15:03 |
DaemonFC | Rent A Center started me out around $45,000 | Sep 10 15:03 |
zlg | what do they rent ? | Sep 10 15:03 |
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schestowitz | DaemonFC: you can do better than that | Sep 10 15:03 |
DaemonFC | zlg: Furniture, computers, video game consoles, lots of stuff | Sep 10 15:03 |
schestowitz | Renting furniture... *Shudder* | Sep 10 15:04 |
Eruaran | http://www.censordyne.com.au/ | Sep 10 15:04 |
schestowitz | Cause the old couple may want some cough from a frat party... | Sep 10 15:04 |
_Hicham_ | renting furniture | Sep 10 15:04 |
schestowitz | *couch | Sep 10 15:05 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: It was good quality furniture, but lets jsut say, you wanted to insist on something new :) | Sep 10 15:05 |
DaemonFC | you'd still pay 5 times what it was worth | Sep 10 15:05 |
trmanco | wow | Sep 10 15:05 |
trmanco | http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=32437 | Sep 10 15:05 |
DaemonFC | but at least there wouldn't be urine and bed bugs on it | Sep 10 15:05 |
trmanco | look what I've found | Sep 10 15:05 |
_Hicham_ | hahahahaha | Sep 10 15:05 |
DaemonFC | I have no idea why they order name brand stuff to be ruined by some kid the first time it's rented out and he pisses the bed | Sep 10 15:05 |
satipera | This whole business of Microsoft selling Linux patents does not seem to make much sense to me, unless there is going to be a second wave of selling to a specific troll, anyone care to comment? | Sep 10 15:05 |
Eruaran | http://search.censordyne.com/ | Sep 10 15:06 |
oiaohm | There is already information turning up that what you just said about MS selling them to trolls turns out to be true satipera | Sep 10 15:06 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: I kept masks and rubber gloves and Out pet stain remover back there | Sep 10 15:06 |
oiaohm | Gets even funnier OIN aquired them off the trolls satipera | Sep 10 15:07 |
Eruaran | I like how instead of Gooooooooooooogle down the bottom it says Censoooooooooooooooored | Sep 10 15:07 |
DaemonFC | made all the "customer account representatives" work the piss stains out of the mattresses | Sep 10 15:07 |
DaemonFC | while I played solitaire most of the time | Sep 10 15:07 |
DaemonFC | that was awesome | Sep 10 15:07 |
schestowitz | solitaire? | Sep 10 15:07 |
_Hicham_ | 2.6.31 went stable | Sep 10 15:08 |
schestowitz | Sad. | Sep 10 15:08 |
DaemonFC | well, awesome when the regional management didn't pick us when it came time to chew ass over sales not being higher | Sep 10 15:08 |
schestowitz | Solitude | Sep 10 15:08 |
DaemonFC | I think that's a given in management everywhere | Sep 10 15:08 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: url? | Sep 10 15:08 |
satipera | I was under the impression OIN bought them from a company who said they did not fit in well with their products | Sep 10 15:08 |
schestowitz | Ideas for sale. | Sep 10 15:08 |
schestowitz | What a contempt for human kind | Sep 10 15:08 |
DaemonFC | Linux is basically thriving under the threat of a patent war | Sep 10 15:09 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: I went to sell you a though | Sep 10 15:09 |
oiaohm | http://kernel.org/ << schestowitz 2.6.31 is up. | Sep 10 15:09 |
oiaohm | Now do I wait for the .1 | Sep 10 15:09 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: I went to sell you a thought. Let's start the bidding | Sep 10 15:09 |
DaemonFC | OIN has to collect patents to keep free software safe from patents | Sep 10 15:09 |
Eruaran | Can you imagine what would happen if Microsoft was dumb enough to start a patent war ? | Sep 10 15:09 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: mailing list..? | Sep 10 15:09 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft is like the raptors in Jurassic Park | Sep 10 15:09 |
oiaohm | satipera: OIN did not aquire them directly. | Sep 10 15:09 |
DaemonFC | testing the electric fences | Sep 10 15:09 |
MinceR | Eruaran: m$ would go bankrupt quickly? | Sep 10 15:10 |
DaemonFC | and that FAT32 settlement didn't look good | Sep 10 15:10 |
satipera | If the patents were imortant, why did ms sell them, If they were not important why did oin buy them? | Sep 10 15:10 |
Eruaran | I can see the lineup of IBM lawyers now... salivating while looking at Microsoft lawyers on the other side of the courtroom | Sep 10 15:10 |
oiaohm | The patents apply to opengl so they are kinda important satipera | Sep 10 15:10 |
DaemonFC | yeah, Linux is safe because so many big businesses are using it and willing to have their legal departments cover it | Sep 10 15:10 |
satipera | Have ms sold other Linux related patents that have not been bought by OIN? | Sep 10 15:11 |
oiaohm | Most likely satipera | Sep 10 15:11 |
schestowitz | 2009-09-01 - 2009-10-01 (3564 messages) | Sep 10 15:11 |
schestowitz | - 2009-08-01 - 2009-09-01 (12414 messages) | Sep 10 15:11 |
schestowitz | Holy cr* | Sep 10 15:11 |
schestowitz | How does one keep track? | Sep 10 15:11 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: So Microsoft can keep coming up with patents over damned near anything Linux does, right? | Sep 10 15:11 |
oiaohm | Not really DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:11 |
trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_thread/thread/8d753af0e8f585be# | Sep 10 15:11 |
DaemonFC | how does buying a dozen or so keep Linux safe? | Sep 10 15:11 |
schestowitz | That's like a message every few seconds | Sep 10 15:12 |
trmanco | posted | Sep 10 15:12 |
Eruaran | All it takes is one mistake from Microsoft | Sep 10 15:12 |
oiaohm | OIN is run by IBM patent writers. | Sep 10 15:12 |
oiaohm | The masters of the defensive document. | Sep 10 15:12 |
schestowitz | YEs | Sep 10 15:12 |
Eruaran | For them to threaten one company they shouldn't have | Sep 10 15:12 |
schestowitz | LF too | Sep 10 15:12 |
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trmanco | I haven't found a testimonial like this in ages | Sep 10 15:12 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: not defensive | Sep 10 15:12 |
schestowitz | FUD-oriented | Sep 10 15:12 |
schestowitz | "Buy from us. It's safe." | Sep 10 15:12 |
oiaohm | Sooner or later MS will take out a patent and MS will have ass sued off for creating a patent without a patent licence to the base patent. | Sep 10 15:13 |
Eruaran | And all their extortion victims will come knocking | Sep 10 15:13 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: So, off topic, but I saw a while back that the OpenBSD people were criticizing GCC for being buggy and spitting out bad code | Sep 10 15:13 |
DaemonFC | and were trying to switch over to some compiler called "Mambo" | Sep 10 15:13 |
DaemonFC | but then the page where they said that disappeared | Sep 10 15:13 |
schestowitz | openbsd dislikes gnu | Sep 10 15:13 |
DaemonFC | any clue? | Sep 10 15:13 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: llvm later beast. | Sep 10 15:13 |
schestowitz | No news here | Sep 10 15:13 |
satipera | Hmm, ok thanks for info. I will have to wait for the whole sordid story to come out in time. | Sep 10 15:14 |
oiaohm | llvm comes out of a dispute in Mamdo DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:14 |
DaemonFC | ahhh | Sep 10 15:14 |
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DaemonFC | so where exactly does GCC spit out bad code? | Sep 10 15:14 |
DaemonFC | what bugs were they talking about? | Sep 10 15:14 |
schestowitz | Pirate Bay suitor shoved off Swedish stock exchange < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/pirate_bay_ggf_excluded_swedish_stock_exchange/ > | Sep 10 15:14 |
DaemonFC | I didn't see them cite particular examples, just a blanket accusation of being "bug ridden" | Sep 10 15:14 |
oiaohm | You should see the work around in the Linux kernel source code DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:14 |
oiaohm | There are a lot of if gcc version X use this block of code. | Sep 10 15:15 |
oiaohm | Because the other block of code will bust badly. | Sep 10 15:15 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: So how is GCC progressing? | Sep 10 15:15 |
DaemonFC | does 4.4.x fix a significant amount of this? | Sep 10 15:15 |
schestowitz | Morning, wallclimber | Sep 10 15:15 |
oiaohm | Also GCC does not do link time opt. | Sep 10 15:15 |
DaemonFC | I heard that there were lots of packages out there that were failing quite badly if compiled with GCC 4.4 | Sep 10 15:16 |
oiaohm | Not yet at least. | Sep 10 15:16 |
DaemonFC | experienced quite a bit of that myself | Sep 10 15:16 |
DaemonFC | when testing out the pre-alpha Karmic development tree | Sep 10 15:16 |
trmanco | what would happen? | Sep 10 15:16 |
oiaohm | Gcc between getting more picky and internal errors its bad. | Sep 10 15:16 |
schestowitz | "A South African IT outfit has shamed telecoms operator Telkom by sending 4GB of data 60 miles by pigeon in two hours - faster than it arrived by the ISP's broadband service." | Sep 10 15:16 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/pigeon_v_broadband/ | Sep 10 15:16 |
DaemonFC | segfaults mainly | Sep 10 15:16 |
schestowitz | We take fast connectivity for granted here | Sep 10 15:16 |
trmanco | hmm | Sep 10 15:16 |
_Hicham_ | everything was compiled with gcc-4.4 in Fedora-11 | Sep 10 15:16 |
DaemonFC | I'm assuming that lots of people must have been working around GCC bugs that 4.4 fixed | Sep 10 15:16 |
oiaohm | Also some programs should have been segfaulting under early compliers DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:17 |
oiaohm | Gcc alignments were lettering buffer overflows. | Sep 10 15:17 |
_Hicham_ | gcc 4.4 is stricter | Sep 10 15:17 |
schestowitz | Google extends love for Chrome extensions on dev preview < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/google_chrome_extensions/ >\ | Sep 10 15:17 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: So bad code that GCC *was* forgiving but not anymore? | Sep 10 15:17 |
_Hicham_ | schestowitz : a chrome extension froze my computer | Sep 10 15:18 |
oiaohm | Yep DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:18 |
oiaohm | Also there are a few new bugs in gcc 4.4 as well. | Sep 10 15:18 |
_Hicham_ | no more forgiveness | Sep 10 15:18 |
DaemonFC | I tried compiling Sauerbraten with GCC 4.4 | Sep 10 15:18 |
DaemonFC | it ruins the texture loading | Sep 10 15:18 |
DaemonFC | so you end up playing the game with no textures | Sep 10 15:18 |
DaemonFC | just the wire frames | Sep 10 15:18 |
_Hicham_ | what errors did u get ? | Sep 10 15:18 |
_Hicham_ | no compilation errors? | Sep 10 15:18 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Plenty of warnings | Sep 10 15:19 |
DaemonFC | there's always been some, but this was ridiculous, it compiled though | Sep 10 15:19 |
DaemonFC | but not correctly, obviously | Sep 10 15:19 |
_Hicham_ | did u try a build with 4.3 on the same machine? | Sep 10 15:19 |
DaemonFC | it compiles fine as long as you use a version of GCC other than 4.4.x | Sep 10 15:20 |
_Hicham_ | I am using gcc-4.4 for some time, never had a problem with it | Sep 10 15:20 |
oiaohm | Does not mean the code is fine DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:20 |
_Hicham_ | gcc (GCC) 4.4.1 20090725 | Sep 10 15:20 |
oiaohm | GCC 4.4 has better prevention against even single byte overflows. | Sep 10 15:20 |
_Hicham_ | there is a lot of warnings in firefox code | Sep 10 15:21 |
oiaohm | Yes a lot of programs have those. | Sep 10 15:21 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Security reasons? | Sep 10 15:21 |
_Hicham_ | like : comparing a signed and insigned integers | Sep 10 15:21 |
oiaohm | A single byte over flow can in some cases cause a secuirty flaw DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:22 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Sep 10 15:22 |
oiaohm | Now if the code is fine | Sep 10 15:22 |
oiaohm | no overflows then gcc is at fault. | Sep 10 15:22 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: So as more distributions use GCC 4.4, we'll probably be seeing less security problems? | Sep 10 15:22 |
oiaohm | That is what gcc is working to. | Sep 10 15:23 |
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oiaohm | Gcc 4.4 is not the solution. | Sep 10 15:23 |
oiaohm | We need lto to find a lot more combination flaws that cause secuirty issues. | Sep 10 15:23 |
_Hicham_ | fedora was the first one to migrate to gcc-4.4 | Sep 10 15:23 |
DaemonFC | seems to be trying to promote security by forcing the programmers to write better code | Sep 10 15:23 |
oiaohm | There are still a lot of flaws in linux source base to be dug out. | Sep 10 15:24 |
DaemonFC | well, anything with 11.5 millions source lines of code will have lots of bugs | Sep 10 15:24 |
DaemonFC | *million | Sep 10 15:24 |
oiaohm | Linux world DaemonFC. Some distributions run auditing packages over it. | Sep 10 15:24 |
oiaohm | Not exactly DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:24 |
oiaohm | On adverage secuirty flaws are lower in open source. | Sep 10 15:24 |
oiaohm | And that has been independantly compared. | Sep 10 15:25 |
oiaohm | It is part quality of tools used. | Sep 10 15:25 |
schestowitz | Argentian News Report Worries About Kids Drinking GrogXD < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090904/1843316118.shtml > | Sep 10 15:25 |
DaemonFC | well, I have seen a lot of patches rolling in nonetheless | Sep 10 15:26 |
DaemonFC | usually at least a couple hundred with security implications over a 6 month lifespan of a distribution | Sep 10 15:26 |
DaemonFC | is it that they're just being a lot more anal about it than Apple or Microsoft? | Sep 10 15:27 |
oiaohm | Think about numbers of software applications covered DaemonFC | Sep 10 15:27 |
oiaohm | couple of hundred is not that many really. | Sep 10 15:27 |
oiaohm | Microsoft and apple both hide stuff Linux world calls secuirty faults. | Sep 10 15:28 |
oiaohm | If its a buffer overflow anywhere it gets taged as a secuirty fault under Linux. | Sep 10 15:28 |
DaemonFC | well, it's kind of hard to do an apples to apples comparison when Windows can live on for 10 years and a new version of your Linux distribution can be out every 6 months, isn't it? | Sep 10 15:28 |
oiaohm | Even if it not simply exploitable. | Sep 10 15:28 |
DaemonFC | I've seen Microsoft try to just do a simple count comparison over a given time period before | Sep 10 15:29 |
oiaohm | With Apple it must be exploitable. | Sep 10 15:29 |
oiaohm | With MS it must be exploited by attackers. | Sep 10 15:29 |
DaemonFC | that explains it then | Sep 10 15:29 |
oiaohm | Also hard thinking they are all using different metrics. | Sep 10 15:29 |
oiaohm | And over different numbers of applications. | Sep 10 15:29 |
oiaohm | Like MS don't count flash and pdf faults in there count. Where a Linux distribution would as well. | Sep 10 15:30 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: So by the time you see a patch from Microsoft, it's always because it's too late and there's already worms or whatever out there attacking it? | Sep 10 15:30 |
DaemonFC | they never fix anything til it's being attacked? | Sep 10 15:30 |
_Hicham_ | yes, of course | Sep 10 15:30 |
_Hicham_ | because the vulnerabilities go public | Sep 10 15:31 |
schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090909/0122546138.shtml Conde Nast Discovers That The Streisand Effect Reaches Russia Too | Sep 10 15:31 |
_Hicham_ | so everyone can exploit them | Sep 10 15:31 |
oiaohm | Linux numbers are not that high if you level it up. | Sep 10 15:31 |
oiaohm | When you wake up the Linux guys are also reporting more. | Sep 10 15:31 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: no ms does not own up to a fault existing until its attacked. | Sep 10 15:31 |
oiaohm | MS has limited resources compared to Linux. | Sep 10 15:32 |
oiaohm | So they have to que secuirty flaws. | Sep 10 15:32 |
schestowitz | "Mike Masnick originally coined the term Streisand effect in reference to a 2003 incident where Barbra Streisand sued photographer Kenneth Adelman and Pictopia.com for US$50 million in an attempt to have the aerial photo of her house removed from the publicly available collection of 12,000 California coastline photographs, citing privacy concerns." | Sep 10 15:32 |
schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_Effect | Sep 10 15:32 |
schestowitz | I didn't know Mike has coined it | Sep 10 15:32 |
oiaohm | Linux does not have to. Programing teams under Linux are large enough to issue out secuirty flaws as they come. | Sep 10 15:32 |
schestowitz | *had | Sep 10 15:32 |
schestowitz | http://www.thestreisandeffect.com/ | Sep 10 15:34 |
schestowitz | Heh. http://www.thestreisandeffect.com/200908/did-you-know-that-liskula-cohen-is-a-skank/ | Sep 10 15:35 |
oiaohm | http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/9/9/357 LOL read the Linus release note for 2.6.31 schestowitz | Sep 10 15:36 |
DaemonFC | Wine + Compiz aren't giving me any problems on Mandriva | Sep 10 15:38 |
DaemonFC | they do on Ubuntu for some reason | Sep 10 15:38 |
schestowitz | Great headline: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1533044/pirate-bay-buyer-banned-offering-shares (Pirate Bay buyer banned from offering shares) | Sep 10 15:38 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: thanks | Sep 10 15:38 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I may just run Sauerbraten for Windows in Wine | Sep 10 15:38 |
DaemonFC | til they get their shit together in the Linux version's source code | Sep 10 15:38 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : it is ur problem | Sep 10 15:40 |
_Hicham_ | sauerbraten is doing fine on linux | Sep 10 15:40 |
DaemonFC | not here it isn't | Sep 10 15:40 |
oiaohm | Have to get to kernel newbies yet to see if they have the report on 2.6.31 feature up yet schestowitz linus might have caught them hopping. | Sep 10 15:40 |
DaemonFC | it's simple enough to compile, I've done it plenty of times | Sep 10 15:41 |
_Hicham_ | there is a problem with ur libGL i think | Sep 10 15:41 |
DaemonFC | doubtful | Sep 10 15:41 |
_Hicham_ | or, try to fix the warnings | Sep 10 15:42 |
_Hicham_ | u should have reported the problem | Sep 10 15:44 |
_Hicham_ | instead of whining | Sep 10 15:44 |
schestowitz | Man gored to death in bull run http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10595734 | Sep 10 15:44 |
DaemonFC | yeah, so it can either collect dust in some bugzilla somewhere | Sep 10 15:44 |
schestowitz | bad gnu | Sep 10 15:44 |
oiaohm | http://kernelnewbies.org/LinuxChanges schestowitz kernelnewbies is upto date as well. | Sep 10 15:44 |
DaemonFC | or a million other people have the problem and it'll get fixed anyway | Sep 10 15:44 |
schestowitz | oiaohm: Don Christie tries to make up for InfoWorld's attack on the GPL. http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/gpl-delivers-clarity-and-freedom-business-891 | Sep 10 15:46 |
schestowitz | They play good cop, bad cop | Sep 10 15:47 |
schestowitz | Attack GPL | Sep 10 15:47 |
schestowitz | Then play nice to it | Sep 10 15:47 |
schestowitz | Like you said before, it's the old troll recipe | Sep 10 15:47 |
schestowitz | An article for each side, trying to pretend the other was "just a mistake" | Sep 10 15:47 |
schestowitz | Isn't CHristie like the head of Linux thingie in NZ? | Sep 10 15:47 |
oiaohm | Yes runs the Linux conf in NZ with a few other things schestowitz | Sep 10 15:49 |
oiaohm | infoworld does have a bsd and a Linux person. | Sep 10 15:49 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : official sauerbraten is 32 bits only | Sep 10 15:49 |
oiaohm | From time to times they rip into each other quite well funny enough even at public events schestowitz. | Sep 10 15:50 |
DaemonFC | It compiles as X86-64 and has for some time | Sep 10 15:50 |
DaemonFC | I'm not in the mood to report a bug and have it sit dormant or have people play the blame game | Sep 10 15:50 |
DaemonFC | eventually, some asshole whose fault it ultimately was all along will come forth and fix it | Sep 10 15:51 |
DaemonFC | when it bothers _them_ | Sep 10 15:51 |
oiaohm | I have put feature requests into gcc and had to wait 6 years. | Sep 10 15:51 |
oiaohm | I have in time got my feature requests coded. | Sep 10 15:51 |
oiaohm | Open source world is not always been in a hurry. | Sep 10 15:52 |
DaemonFC | that's what I call the natural bug lifecycle | Sep 10 15:52 |
DaemonFC | when the maintainer or one of his minions hits the bug, it will be fixed | Sep 10 15:52 |
oiaohm | It was not a critical bug. | Sep 10 15:52 |
DaemonFC | no sooner or later | Sep 10 15:52 |
wallclimber | oops, i missed the nice "good morning" greeting. Good morning to you too! (I'm not really awake yet :) | Sep 10 15:52 |
oiaohm | Lets let the source override the complier flags. | Sep 10 15:52 |
oiaohm | And not allow anything from command line to undo that. | Sep 10 15:52 |
oiaohm | Not critical but hid a lot of flaws. | Sep 10 15:53 |
_Hicham_ | great DaemonFC's theory, as always | Sep 10 15:53 |
_Hicham_ | playing a free game, not even mention a bug in counterpart | Sep 10 15:53 |
_Hicham_ | u are a shame on linux | Sep 10 15:54 |
DaemonFC | heh | Sep 10 15:54 |
DaemonFC | I've had plenty of bugs with plenty of very detailed core dumps pinned to them affecting a great many packages | Sep 10 15:55 |
_Hicham_ | where is that ? | Sep 10 15:55 |
_Hicham_ | in which bugzilla? | Sep 10 15:55 |
DaemonFC | unless it bother's the maintainer, it won't be fixed, is the general rule | Sep 10 15:55 |
DaemonFC | *bothers | Sep 10 15:55 |
_Hicham_ | he must reproduce the bug | Sep 10 15:56 |
_Hicham_ | do u understand that ? | Sep 10 15:56 |
DaemonFC | well, Ubuntu's bug reporting system is the worst | Sep 10 15:56 |
_Hicham_ | *reproduce* | Sep 10 15:56 |
_Hicham_ | that is the key | Sep 10 15:56 |
DaemonFC | either it just sits there, or some idiot decides it's a duplicate even when it may not be | Sep 10 15:56 |
DaemonFC | and you get signed up for every comment anyone makes on it | Sep 10 15:56 |
DaemonFC | in your email inbox | Sep 10 15:56 |
_Hicham_ | of course | Sep 10 15:57 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: you missed the worse bit. | Sep 10 15:57 |
_Hicham_ | that is the bugzilla | Sep 10 15:57 |
oiaohm | The Ubuntu mantainers themselves sometimes make it way worse not better. | Sep 10 15:57 |
DaemonFC | just sit back, work around it, and let the chaos theory continue working | Sep 10 15:57 |
oiaohm | They miss doing good enough testing. | Sep 10 15:57 |
_Hicham_ | oiaohm : they base themselves on the use cases they have | Sep 10 15:57 |
oiaohm | Even missing running the applications own test suite _Hicham_? | Sep 10 15:58 |
oiaohm | That shows up there alteration is screwed. | Sep 10 15:58 |
oiaohm | Yes I have caught Ubuntu maintainers doing that. | Sep 10 15:58 |
_Hicham_ | well, I submit patches for fedora, they got integrated quickly | Sep 10 15:59 |
oiaohm | Fedora one does it they get skined alive. | Sep 10 15:59 |
oiaohm | If something has a testsuite maintainers must built and run it under Fedora. | Sep 10 15:59 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: tell me when you wake up then | Sep 10 15:59 |
_Hicham_ | I try to avoid patches | Sep 10 15:59 |
oiaohm | I wish more distributions took up better Q&A. | Sep 10 15:59 |
_Hicham_ | but sometimes, patches are necessary | Sep 10 16:00 |
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schestowitz | I had a nightmare last night, which is odd cause it has been years since the last time | Sep 10 16:00 |
_Hicham_ | but test suites must be run | Sep 10 16:00 |
wallclimber | ok, i'm sort of awake...my eyes are mostly open | Sep 10 16:00 |
_Hicham_ | I wouldn't approve a package review that has disabled the test suite | Sep 10 16:00 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: I think it boils down to "Something that belongs to everyone belongs to nobody" | Sep 10 16:00 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: telepathic | Sep 10 16:00 |
oiaohm | No it does not DaemonFC | Sep 10 16:00 |
oiaohm | It boils down to who runs the projects. | Sep 10 16:01 |
DaemonFC | if a distribution just mindlessly bundles things, they can say "It's an upstream problem" | Sep 10 16:01 |
DaemonFC | so it's not really their problem, is it? | Sep 10 16:01 |
oiaohm | Really. | Sep 10 16:01 |
oiaohm | It is there problem. | Sep 10 16:01 |
wallclimber | what was the nightmare? | Sep 10 16:01 |
oiaohm | Its exactly the same as a importer of a defective product DaemonFC | Sep 10 16:02 |
oiaohm | The importer is held accountable. | Sep 10 16:02 |
_Hicham_ | I can't package a software and not try to find its bugs | Sep 10 16:02 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: "We'll sit around and wait for Suse to fix it" | Sep 10 16:02 |
_Hicham_ | it is my reputation in there | Sep 10 16:02 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: I remember it vaguely only | Sep 10 16:02 |
DaemonFC | "Well, Fedora doesn't use these anymore, now what do we do?" | Sep 10 16:02 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 10 16:02 |
schestowitz | There's no actual reason for it, none I could think of. Probably a matter of probability really. | Sep 10 16:03 |
oiaohm | Suse developers do fix things DaemonFC | Sep 10 16:03 |
schestowitz | Kids tend to have nightmares more frequently | Sep 10 16:03 |
DaemonFC | there's lots of out of tree patches that distributions just slap into their version of the package | Sep 10 16:03 |
schestowitz | And stupid adults are still showing kids witches and stuff | Sep 10 16:03 |
schestowitz | Some tell them about Hell to scare them | Sep 10 16:03 |
schestowitz | Child abuse | Sep 10 16:03 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu formed a rouge branch of Debian. | Sep 10 16:03 |
wallclimber | i think bad dreams are just the brain's way of letting off steam | Sep 10 16:03 |
schestowitz | Legends of monsters and stuff | Sep 10 16:04 |
oiaohm | Debian was very strict on the testsuite running. | Sep 10 16:04 |
schestowitz | I assume it's for them to aqcuire 'defensive' fear | Sep 10 16:04 |
schestowitz | *Acquire | Sep 10 16:04 |
oiaohm | Ubuntu is the rebellous child that has not learnt better yet desu | Sep 10 16:04 |
schestowitz | Like ammunition to emotional pain | Sep 10 16:04 |
oiaohm | opps DaemonFC | Sep 10 16:04 |
DaemonFC | Mandriva patched X.org with the Suse patch that lets them bring back ctrl-alt-bksp to restart X, except now it beeps for a few seconds first | Sep 10 16:04 |
DaemonFC | like "Hey asshole, wake up!" | Sep 10 16:04 |
oiaohm | why | Sep 10 16:04 |
DaemonFC | on three keys you'll never likely hit unless X is frozen anyway | Sep 10 16:05 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 10 16:05 |
oiaohm | ctrl-alt-bksp has no place in X11. | Sep 10 16:05 |
oiaohm | It should be assigned to the kernel sak key. | Sep 10 16:05 |
oiaohm | Result is the same. | Sep 10 16:05 |
wallclimber | sure, that's possible too. i've only had a few in my life that i remember. mostly they happened when my kids were little. i think i worried about them more than i realized | Sep 10 16:05 |
oiaohm | 1 killed and restarted X11 server. | Sep 10 16:05 |
DaemonFC | X doesn't die as much as it used to at least | Sep 10 16:06 |
oiaohm | Different is sak does not depend on X11 running. | Sep 10 16:06 |
wallclimber | the science of sleep is fascinating | Sep 10 16:06 |
DaemonFC | Wine still pisses it off more than anything else | Sep 10 16:06 |
oiaohm | my audio is pissing me off. | Sep 10 16:06 |
oiaohm | Its going to annoy me after 8 years of running this install have to clean it out. | Sep 10 16:06 |
oiaohm | I suspect I have lost configurations. | Sep 10 16:07 |
DaemonFC | I'm wishing someone would patch Banshee already | Sep 10 16:07 |
DaemonFC | this Last.FM thing is just absurd | Sep 10 16:07 |
DaemonFC | the patch is so obvious | Sep 10 16:07 |
DaemonFC | it's already written | Sep 10 16:07 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, sleep paralysis too | Sep 10 16:07 |
schestowitz | Does it have a purpose? | Sep 10 16:07 |
oiaohm | Everything I play ends up garbled if I skip forwards in mplayer any ideas what I have to kill DaemonFC | Sep 10 16:07 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: So you won't draw attention to yourself? | Sep 10 16:08 |
schestowitz | I think there was an experiment in Canada where they took twins and let one grow up without fears | Sep 10 16:08 |
DaemonFC | less likely to be eaten by an animal in the middle of the night? | Sep 10 16:08 |
wallclimber | i don't know if it ha a purpose, but i know i really hate it when it happens | Sep 10 16:08 |
schestowitz | He prospered compared to the sibling? | Sep 10 16:08 |
wallclimber | *has* | Sep 10 16:08 |
schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8245312.stm ( DNA pioneer's 'eureka' moment | Sep 10 16:08 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: What distribution? | Sep 10 16:08 |
DaemonFC | What version of Pulseaudio? | Sep 10 16:08 |
oiaohm | DaemonFC: Debain testing no Pulseaudio | Sep 10 16:08 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: leads people to telling stories of alien abductions | Sep 10 16:08 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu has that problem in Mplayer and VLC | Sep 10 16:08 |
schestowitz | Or the whole "I felt like GOd was in the room" | Sep 10 16:08 |
schestowitz | In the middle ages it was perceived that way,I've read | Sep 10 16:09 |
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DaemonFC | Alien abductions are more credible | Sep 10 16:09 |
schestowitz | BTW, I'll do COmes tomorrow or weekend... | Sep 10 16:09 |
oiaohm | Note DaemonFC even flash is effected | Sep 10 16:09 |
schestowitz | People come back from vacations and have too much to published and others to keep up w/ | Sep 10 16:09 |
oiaohm | Yes my sound stack is completely shot to hell. | Sep 10 16:10 |
schestowitz | "abductions" are not credible | Sep 10 16:10 |
schestowitz | There's no proof | Sep 10 16:10 |
wallclimber | i've solved a lot of problems in my dreams, and woke up knowing how to fix something..mostly design problems in some artwork...but i think sleep and dreams are important to creativity | Sep 10 16:10 |
DaemonFC | I'd say intelligent alien life is more likely than God | Sep 10 16:10 |
schestowitz | Like an alien utility | Sep 10 16:10 |
oiaohm | The question is how far way is the alien. | Sep 10 16:10 |
schestowitz | The funny ones are about sexual exploitation from supposed "aliens" | Sep 10 16:10 |
oiaohm | We have not explored this solar system completely. | Sep 10 16:11 |
DaemonFC | they may have even tweaked us to regard them as God | Sep 10 16:11 |
wallclimber | DaemonFC: speaking of intelligent alien life, how are you this morning? :o) | Sep 10 16:11 |
schestowitz | yeah,. people travelled from distant galaxies to screw us | Sep 10 16:11 |
schestowitz | Sure, that makes a lot of sense | Sep 10 16:11 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: You remember Thor and the Asgard in Stargate SG-1, right? | Sep 10 16:11 |
DaemonFC | like that maybe | Sep 10 16:11 |
schestowitz | It's romantic like the idea that God is like a very, very big man who looks like us (unless "us' are ladies) | Sep 10 16:11 |
schestowitz | I don't watch Stargate | Sep 10 16:12 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: And every woman in the bible was deceitful, dishonest, and/or some kind of prostitute except for the "Virgin Mary" | Sep 10 16:12 |
DaemonFC | notice this? | Sep 10 16:12 |
oiaohm | We could be the backwater alien crime come to get away with trouble. | Sep 10 16:12 |
schestowitz | And virgin Mary had no sex | Sep 10 16:12 |
schestowitz | Like they are disgusted by the idea of genitalia in religion... that's how Hitchen puts it | Sep 10 16:13 |
schestowitz | And yet.. | Sep 10 16:13 |
schestowitz | HE argues | Sep 10 16:13 |
wallclimber | oiaohm: so that explains Ballmer! | Sep 10 16:13 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Not all of them | Sep 10 16:13 |
schestowitz | They are always obsessed with that region. | Sep 10 16:13 |
DaemonFC | but Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all are | Sep 10 16:13 |
schestowitz | He's very funny about it | Sep 10 16:13 |
DaemonFC | very very repressed and backwards | Sep 10 16:13 |
DaemonFC | some in each group way more than others though | Sep 10 16:14 |
schestowitz | There's this lunatic type with the "alien" made us obsession | Sep 10 16:14 |
DaemonFC | til you get to the Amish | Sep 10 16:14 |
schestowitz | Not as bad as the type which says SOME of us are aliens | Sep 10 16:14 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: You have any of them around where you are? | Sep 10 16:14 |
schestowitz | And some are CROCODILES or reptiles | Sep 10 16:14 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 10 16:14 |
DaemonFC | not violent, just like something ripped out of the 1600s | Sep 10 16:15 |
schestowitz | Some stay out of the way of others | Sep 10 16:15 |
schestowitz | That's OK | Sep 10 16:15 |
schestowitz | When it comes to education it's a riddle | Sep 10 16:15 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: They call us the "English" | Sep 10 16:15 |
DaemonFC | and they say it with such contempt | Sep 10 16:15 |
schestowitz | Like, if kids are being taught about Hell and stuff, that can be your kid too | Sep 10 16:15 |
DaemonFC | they separate off into their own communities | Sep 10 16:16 |
oiaohm | The source regiion of Christianity Judaism and Islam is almost no more. | Sep 10 16:16 |
schestowitz | I don't want my kids to be taught lies cause it's 'politically correct' | Sep 10 16:16 |
oiaohm | You have to wonder what regilion will look like in 100 years time. | Sep 10 16:16 |
schestowitz | There's already a unified scientific theory with which to teach morals too | Sep 10 16:16 |
DaemonFC | oiaohm: Probably a lot like it does now | Sep 10 16:16 |
schestowitz | Even responsibility for the planet, species, peers | Sep 10 16:17 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't even expect religion to go away if we conquered death and colonized other planets | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | It won't vanish | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | It never did | Sep 10 16:17 |
DaemonFC | it may take a different form though | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | Neither has slavery | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | People believe in the wants | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | Not the truths | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | That's a natural thing | Sep 10 16:17 |
schestowitz | Some people read horoscopes | Sep 10 16:18 |
schestowitz | Even if they might know it's made up | Sep 10 16:18 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ABE3wvxzA | Sep 10 16:18 |
wallclimber | i prefer fortune cookies | Sep 10 16:18 |
schestowitz | And then you have all sort of phonies like magicians and the Uri Geller fraud types | Sep 10 16:18 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, edible. | Sep 10 16:18 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 10 16:18 |
wallclimber | fortune cookies are baked by aliens | Sep 10 16:19 |
wallclimber | trapped in chinese kitchens | Sep 10 16:19 |
schestowitz | Aliens from HEAVEN! | Sep 10 16:19 |
schestowitz | The 'blue' type | Sep 10 16:19 |
wallclimber | isn't that a song? "My Blue Heaven" | Sep 10 16:20 |
wallclimber | ok, it's a very old song | Sep 10 16:20 |
schestowitz | Musicians hit out at piracy plans http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8247376.stm | Sep 10 16:20 |
schestowitz | How ironic. The front group which supposedly represents singer is denounced by them | Sep 10 16:21 |
schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, I have the Django version | Sep 10 16:21 |
schestowitz | It's public domain afaik | Sep 10 16:21 |
schestowitz | OpenOffice Reveals Motivation for Security Updates http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/OpenOffice-Reveals-Motivation-for-Security-Updates | Sep 10 16:22 |
wallclimber | yes, probably so...it's been around long enough | Sep 10 16:22 |
schestowitz | Here's Chicago redoing Glenn Miller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN2un3lnqw0 | Sep 10 16:23 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu is passing out Prism apps | Sep 10 16:24 |
DaemonFC | including one for Gmail | Sep 10 16:24 |
wallclimber | Chicago really shouldn't have done that... | Sep 10 16:25 |
wallclimber | Glen was probably turning in his grave | Sep 10 16:25 |
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schestowitz | http://linusearch.com/wordpress/?p=426 | Sep 10 16:26 |
wallclimber | (okay, the horn section does a great job) | Sep 10 16:26 |
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schestowitz | wallclimber: LOL | Sep 10 16:26 |
wallclimber | i need more coffee...back later :) | Sep 10 16:26 |
schestowitz | Turning in his grave... gently | Sep 10 16:26 |
wallclimber | actually glen would be swinging in his grave | Sep 10 16:27 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 10 16:27 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Some guy commented on my blog saying he was the guy that leaked those screenshots from the Best Buy training module | Sep 10 16:27 |
DaemonFC | then came back today and asked me to delete that comment | Sep 10 16:27 |
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MinceR | lol | Sep 10 16:28 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: which comment/post? | Sep 10 16:29 |
schestowitz | Oh | Sep 10 16:29 |
schestowitz | I know which one | Sep 10 16:29 |
DaemonFC | I deleted it | Sep 10 16:29 |
DaemonFC | I figured that his employer would not look favorably on this | Sep 10 16:30 |
schestowitz | 'Empoyer' | Sep 10 16:30 |
schestowitz | With a whip | Sep 10 16:30 |
schestowitz | Best Bribe | Sep 10 16:30 |
schestowitz | *BUy | Sep 10 16:30 |
DaemonFC | well, I'd hate to see someone get sacked over this | Sep 10 16:31 |
schestowitz | Racketeering case against Microsoft, Best Buy revived < http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/050907-racketeering-microsoft-best-buy.html > | Sep 10 16:31 |
DaemonFC | the world needs more whistleblowers | Sep 10 16:31 |
schestowitz | Other shops did it too | Sep 10 16:31 |
schestowitz | But Best Bribe took the PR blow | Sep 10 16:31 |
schestowitz | So BEst Buy is loathed by some Mac and Linux users now | Sep 10 16:32 |
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schestowitz | DaemonFC: WIkileaks | Sep 10 16:32 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Like I said, Best Buy has to go along with this cause they need Microsoft more than Microsoft needs them | Sep 10 16:32 |
twitter1 | oh my, this is going to be fun. M$'s "pressure protection" -> The update implements a new feature called memory pressure protection, which automatically drops existing TCP connections and SYN requests when attacks are detected. | Sep 10 16:33 |
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schestowitz | The world need more regulators, not just leakers | Sep 10 16:33 |
DaemonFC | Microsoft can play manufacturers and stores both sides down the middle | Sep 10 16:33 |
schestowitz | Leaks don't stop crime | Sep 10 16:33 |
twitter1 | Best Buy needs M$ like they need an empty store. | Sep 10 16:33 |
schestowitz | They present evidence for doughnut-gobbling regulators to do their job properly | Sep 10 16:33 |
schestowitz | The stupid EU COmmission didn't do anything about the OOXML corruption | Sep 10 16:33 |
twitter1 | Moving to all M$ netbooks is killing sales for them. | Sep 10 16:33 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is more of a political movement, a criminal org | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | twitter1: I've already detailed why Best Buy needs Windows | Sep 10 16:34 |
schestowitz | ANd they should be treated as such | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | it's a gateway drug to the really hard shit | Sep 10 16:34 |
schestowitz | But they aren't, | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 16:34 |
schestowitz | Some with some bankers | Sep 10 16:34 |
twitter1 | your details are wrong | Sep 10 16:34 |
schestowitz | They can steal, cause deaths etc. and go on like nothing happened | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | if they start selling Linux, their profit will be halved immediately | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | or worse | Sep 10 16:34 |
twitter1 | go to Best Buy and see the buyer free zone yourself | Sep 10 16:34 |
schestowitz | Cause they are more powerful than governments and outnumber them in staff and money | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | even if they sell the same number of systems | Sep 10 16:34 |
twitter1 | nonsense | Sep 10 16:34 |
DaemonFC | nope, not nonsense, Linux is not profitable to them | Sep 10 16:35 |
twitter1 | see Asus EEE PC sales as an example. | Sep 10 16:35 |
DaemonFC | they can't sell you antivirus | Sep 10 16:35 |
DaemonFC | they can't sell you "Geek Squad" | Sep 10 16:35 |
DaemonFC | they can't sell you Office | Sep 10 16:35 |
twitter1 | M$ can't sell anything these days either. | Sep 10 16:35 |
DaemonFC | their sales on sales would jsut evaporate | Sep 10 16:35 |
schestowitz | They don't buy it there | Sep 10 16:35 |
twitter1 | the reality is that M$ only retailers are failing. | Sep 10 16:35 |
schestowitz | These can be bought anywhere | Sep 10 16:35 |
schestowitz | That's a general thing, not a store-based thing | Sep 10 16:35 |
twitter1 | CompUSA, Circuit City .... and so on. | Sep 10 16:36 |
twitter1 | There will be more soon enough. | Sep 10 16:36 |
DaemonFC | Best Buy makes much more money on boxed software and boxed video games | Sep 10 16:36 |
DaemonFC | the PCs are just there so you have something which makes you buy more things | Sep 10 16:36 |
twitter1 | Video games, maybe but that's PS3, Wii and not M$. | Sep 10 16:36 |
DaemonFC | it's like the grocery store selling potato chips for 50 cents a bag to get you in the store | Sep 10 16:36 |
twitter1 | The other stuff is dead in the water and has been for a long time. | Sep 10 16:36 |
DaemonFC | they lose money on the chips, but you buy lots of other things while you're there anyway | Sep 10 16:37 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: you have wrong assumptions | Sep 10 16:37 |
schestowitz | VERY wrong | Sep 10 16:37 |
DaemonFC | they see Windows as a gateway to more "software and service" sales | Sep 10 16:37 |
schestowitz | As if Best Bribe sets the standards for what the world uses | Sep 10 16:37 |
DaemonFC | Linux can't give them that, or the bundled crapware kickbacks | Sep 10 16:37 |
schestowitz | As if when Best Buy moves to Linux, then the whole country would do so too | Sep 10 16:37 |
schestowitz | As Windows would die overnight | Sep 10 16:38 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Nine women rescued from fake Big Brother house in Turkey http://tinyurl.com/lcldxk | Sep 10 16:38 | |
DaemonFC | I didn't say it was a good thing, the customer ends up shelling out hundreds or thousands of extra dollars | Sep 10 16:38 |
schestowitz | Best Buy does not instruct the market | Sep 10 16:38 |
DaemonFC | that's why Best Buy is a Microsoft shop | Sep 10 16:38 |
twitter1 | It's not real, DaemonFC. | Sep 10 16:38 |
DaemonFC | that's also why every other store only does Microsoft | Sep 10 16:38 |
twitter1 | Best Buy is going to eat it. | Sep 10 16:38 |
schestowitz | "The women were led to believe they were being filmed for a Big Brother-type television programme, according to the Dogan news agency and other news reports. Instead, their naked images were sold on the internet by their captors." | Sep 10 16:38 |
DaemonFC | the local computer shops won't even touch your system if it has Linux on it | Sep 10 16:38 |
schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/10/turkey-fake-big-brother-rescue | Sep 10 16:38 |
twitter1 | so will every store that sticks with M$. | Sep 10 16:38 |
DaemonFC | Linux is a cancer to those types of businesses | Sep 10 16:39 |
twitter1 | LOL. local stores are the first to move to gnu/linux | Sep 10 16:39 |
DaemonFC | they lurch back when they even hear the word | Sep 10 16:39 |
*schestowitz waves Trollstick | Sep 10 16:39 | |
MinceR | strange name for a banhammer | Sep 10 16:40 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Linux would mean millions in lost sales to Best Buy alone | Sep 10 16:40 |
schestowitz | They make money selling what people ask for | Sep 10 16:40 |
DaemonFC | no they don't | Sep 10 16:40 |
schestowitz | And if a Linux PC is sold, that's profit to them | Sep 10 16:40 |
DaemonFC | they make money telling you what you will buy | Sep 10 16:40 |
DaemonFC | you have no idea how retail works | Sep 10 16:40 |
schestowitz | There are enough WIndows users to come there from gamez and proggiezzzz | Sep 10 16:40 |
twitter1 | That's ten years ago DaemonFC. Every local store has people who know gnu/linux now. Even Best Buy and Office Depot do, as the slide links prove, but those places are under money losing M$ influence and can't take advantage of their skilled staff. | Sep 10 16:40 |
DaemonFC | they get you in there and coerce you into buying things you don't want | Sep 10 16:40 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: I was in computer retail | Sep 10 16:40 |
schestowitz | THey do specs | Sep 10 16:40 |
DaemonFC | it's their job, it's what they do | Sep 10 16:40 |
schestowitz | They spec the PC | Sep 10 16:41 |
twitter1 | Even in games, M$ is losing it's ass. | Sep 10 16:41 |
schestowitz | They can do it with Linux just fine | Sep 10 16:41 |
twitter1 | Xbox sucks. | Sep 10 16:41 |
twitter1 | Vista is even worse. | Sep 10 16:41 |
schestowitz | People don't come to buy 1 $1000 PC, 3 PS3 games, and 2 printer cartriges | Sep 10 16:41 |
DaemonFC | well, you may not want to hear it, but the customer is not the one in charge | Sep 10 16:41 |
schestowitz | If they want a PC, they get a PC and leave | Sep 10 16:41 |
twitter1 | Gamers clutch to a 9 year old OS that M$ is trying to kill. | Sep 10 16:41 |
DaemonFC | you can manipulate them into going along with a really bad deal | Sep 10 16:41 |
DaemonFC | and make twice the money off them | Sep 10 16:42 |
schestowitz | *Cartridges | Sep 10 16:42 |
DaemonFC | they may not even know they were cheated | Sep 10 16:42 |
twitter1 | New hardware is not going to work with the ancient XP. Gamers are going to leave Windows behind. M$ is suicidal and has been for years. | Sep 10 16:42 |
DaemonFC | probably won't ever figure it out | Sep 10 16:42 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: can do that with Linux too | Sep 10 16:42 |
DaemonFC | they'll walk right back in and buy more from you later | Sep 10 16:42 |
schestowitz | Selll Linux with placebo AV s/w | Sep 10 16:42 |
DaemonFC | still not figure out | Sep 10 16:42 |
schestowitz | Take off the A/V and have a better bergain even | Sep 10 16:43 |
schestowitz | Beat the other shops | Sep 10 16:43 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: The antivirus trials subsidize a lot of the PC cost | Sep 10 16:43 |
DaemonFC | the trialware subsidizes about $60 every PC | Sep 10 16:43 |
schestowitz | Not helpful to customers | Sep 10 16:43 |
schestowitz | They figure it out | Sep 10 16:43 |
DaemonFC | you'd probably have to sell the systems at the same price for less profit without that | Sep 10 16:44 |
schestowitz | People complain about junkware | Sep 10 16:44 |
schestowitz | Nope | Sep 10 16:44 |
schestowitz | See Dell for example | Sep 10 16:44 |
DaemonFC | yeah, but nobody is willing to pay for it not to come with it | Sep 10 16:44 |
DaemonFC | you can pay them an extra $50-60 sometimes | Sep 10 16:44 |
*schestowitz got tired of this.. | Sep 10 16:44 | |
DaemonFC | that's what they were making with the junkware | Sep 10 16:44 |
twitter1 | We'll just watch how things play out in the market, DaemonFC. My prediction is based on Vista. Stores that let themselves get channel stuffed with Windows 7 are going to fail. Best Buy will suffer. | Sep 10 16:44 |
DaemonFC | every expense has to be made up for somehow | Sep 10 16:45 |
DaemonFC | if they ditch the junkware, they add $50 onto every system | Sep 10 16:45 |
twitter1 | The rest of the M$ retail chain will eat it too. | Sep 10 16:45 |
twitter1 | It's already happened and Windows 7 is more of the same. | Sep 10 16:45 |
DaemonFC | eventually, XP won't be available in any case | Sep 10 16:45 |
twitter1 | You can make up any fairy tail you like. Vista has already shown what the world is really like. | Sep 10 16:46 |
DaemonFC | so the sheep will use Windows 7 | Sep 10 16:46 |
twitter1 | nope. | Sep 10 16:46 |
DaemonFC | they go where they're told | Sep 10 16:46 |
DaemonFC | the retailers are the sheep herders for Microsoft | Sep 10 16:46 |
twitter1 | People who want to make money will move them on to greener fields than M$ has to offer. | Sep 10 16:46 |
DaemonFC | doubtful | Sep 10 16:46 |
twitter1 | Vista! | Sep 10 16:46 |
DaemonFC | most of the fallout over Vista went to the Mac | Sep 10 16:46 |
twitter1 | ha ha | Sep 10 16:47 |
twitter1 | not in the rest of the world. | Sep 10 16:47 |
DaemonFC | or back to XP | Sep 10 16:47 |
twitter1 | dead end | Sep 10 16:47 |
DaemonFC | you're talking people that can't be educated | Sep 10 16:47 |
MinceR | they're killing xp, no matter what | Sep 10 16:47 |
DaemonFC | except by what the salesman or the box says | Sep 10 16:47 |
twitter1 | yes, I see that I'm wasting my time DaemonFC. | Sep 10 16:47 |
twitter1 | ;-) | Sep 10 16:47 |
twitter1 | bbl | Sep 10 16:48 |
MinceR | :> | Sep 10 16:48 |
DaemonFC | when you make an ass out of yourself? | Sep 10 16:48 |
DaemonFC | yes, very much a waste of effort | Sep 10 16:48 |
twitter1 | you should know all about it. | Sep 10 16:48 |
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DaemonFC | people would buy Linux systems if that's what the salespeople and the box said to do | Sep 10 16:50 |
DaemonFC | and the commercials on TV | Sep 10 16:50 |
DaemonFC | people don't really question anything the salespeople, the box, and the TV tell them | Sep 10 16:50 |
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DaemonFC | word of mouth only helps if someone they trust says it, and even then, not always | Sep 10 16:52 |
DaemonFC | corporations have spent years figuring out how to dig at people and convince them they need expensive toys and gadgets | Sep 10 16:52 |
DaemonFC | and they're very good at it | Sep 10 16:52 |
_Hicham_ | that is marketing | Sep 10 16:52 |
_Hicham_ | so ur job is convince people to rent furnitures | Sep 10 16:53 |
DaemonFC | worse than marketing | Sep 10 16:53 |
DaemonFC | there are many people that CANNOT function unless they have their cell phone | Sep 10 16:53 |
DaemonFC | or a GPS unit | Sep 10 16:53 |
DaemonFC | people forget how to do things without that shit | Sep 10 16:54 |
zlg | or a pacemaker | Sep 10 16:54 |
MinceR | yeah, those stupid people growing addicted to their pacemakers | Sep 10 16:54 |
DaemonFC | you were laughing at people who used a compass and a map earlier | Sep 10 16:54 |
MinceR | and wheelchairs | Sep 10 16:54 |
DaemonFC | the compass is a dollar, and the map is like $5 | Sep 10 16:54 |
DaemonFC | a GPS unit is more like $200-$300 plus $60-80 for every map update | Sep 10 16:55 |
DaemonFC | then in 2-3 years, you need a new GPS unit | Sep 10 16:55 |
DaemonFC | congratulations, you're a subscriber | Sep 10 16:55 |
MinceR | why do you need a new GPS unit? | Sep 10 16:55 |
DaemonFC | now, they ding you with that, and cell phone bills | Sep 10 16:55 |
DaemonFC | and text messages | Sep 10 16:55 |
DaemonFC | and mobile internet | Sep 10 16:55 |
DaemonFC | and of course, the Windows-based PC with all the lovely "software as a service" | Sep 10 16:56 |
DaemonFC | and before you know it, they all gange rape you for at least a few hundred dollars a month, like clockwork | Sep 10 16:56 |
DaemonFC | *gang | Sep 10 16:56 |
DaemonFC | and by the time you realize you can't afford this and you're working too many hours to maintain the extravagance, you've forgotten how to use a map, and there aren't any more pay phones | Sep 10 16:57 |
MinceR | mobile phones are such extravagance | Sep 10 16:57 |
DaemonFC | and when the battery dies, so does your ability to cope with the world around you | Sep 10 16:57 |
DaemonFC | people are freaking retarded for developing this dependence | Sep 10 16:58 |
DaemonFC | it's a problem that goes way beyond Microsoft | Sep 10 16:58 |
DaemonFC | in fact, a lot of the evil subscription GPS people use Linux | Sep 10 16:59 |
DaemonFC | because they don't have to license the software they use to screw you over with | Sep 10 16:59 |
DaemonFC | they tinker with it so it only understands their map format | Sep 10 16:59 |
DaemonFC | and even a GPL 3 Linux wouldn't stop that because nothing needs to be linked into the kernel | Sep 10 17:00 |
DaemonFC | you'd have to have an OS where no undocumented software could run on top of it at all | Sep 10 17:00 |
MinceR | but the windows mobile gps people are so much better, because they have to...wait a minute... | Sep 10 17:01 |
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DaemonFC | pay exactly the same prices and be precisely as screwed over? | Sep 10 17:01 |
MinceR | indeed | Sep 10 17:01 |
DaemonFC | so there are a number of problems that "free software" can solve in some cases | Sep 10 17:02 |
DaemonFC | and this really isn't one of them | Sep 10 17:02 |
DaemonFC | but they still say it is | Sep 10 17:02 |
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DaemonFC | Torvalds realizes this and that's why he says that GPL 2 has served him well | Sep 10 17:03 |
DaemonFC | it has, it compels people to give him source code | Sep 10 17:03 |
DaemonFC | including Garmin (makes GPS devices that run on Linux) | Sep 10 17:04 |
zlg | all the positioning and timing algorithms for GPS are contained within the chipset's firmware and is proprietary and probably patented, all the I/O and maping and display is what the OEM tack onto to make a product. | Sep 10 17:04 |
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DaemonFC | so how does free software help the user when they can skirt around the license for the code that enables their device to work and make it so you have to damage the device to open it? | Sep 10 17:05 |
DaemonFC | Linus Torvalds gets the strictly Linux-related source code patches and that's all the GPL is really doing for anybody | Sep 10 17:06 |
zlg | they also burn it into firmware and blow a fuse bit that disables the ability to read the chip, there is no point in damaging anything, | Sep 10 17:06 |
DaemonFC | the GPL worked when devices didn't really exist and everything in the computer was documented commodity hardware and you didn't have to destroy the thing to open it up | Sep 10 17:06 |
zlg | All you have access too is the position and time data probably in NMEA formorat | Sep 10 17:07 |
DaemonFC | so they can't work around the problem by tweaking a license when the license doesn't control the device | Sep 10 17:07 |
schestowitz | Witch Hunt: The Resignation of Van Jones < http://mikeely.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/the-witchhunt-against-van-jones/ > Daemonisation by repugnicants | Sep 10 17:08 |
DaemonFC | hell, they could comply with the GPL 3 and make the device impossible to open without destroying | Sep 10 17:08 |
zlg | GPL code can interfacewith proprietary code, | Sep 10 17:08 |
DaemonFC | that's why I don't get the FSF trying to screw around with devices | Sep 10 17:09 |
DaemonFC | there's really nothing they can do to prevent exploitation of users | Sep 10 17:09 |
schestowitz | user's choice | Sep 10 17:11 |
zlg | that speaks to the definition of hardware, software and firmware, with PLD, GPLD's, you can create software algorithms in hardware, or CPU's and hardware in software. | Sep 10 17:11 |
schestowitz | "Lubna Hussein, convicted in Sudan for wearing trousers, has refused to pay her fine. She'll now go to jail as a result" < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/sep/08/lubna-hussein-trousers-sudan > | Sep 10 17:11 |
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schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS234087+09-Sep-2009+BW20090909 (NEC Electronics and Wind River Expand Collaboration on Linux Solutions for Portable Audio/Visual Devices Market) | Sep 10 17:21 |
schestowitz | Another Microsoft-y site which runs all LAMP. http://www.xconomy.com/national/2009/09/09/calling-all-wordpressphpapachelinux-gurus-particularly-the-ones-with-pagers/ | Sep 10 17:23 |
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_Hicham_ | I run only ASP websites | Sep 10 17:30 |
_Hicham_ | Mono powered | Sep 10 17:30 |
_Hicham_ | Mono powers ASP on Linux | Sep 10 17:30 |
schestowitz | Haha. Typical: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/035550.html | Sep 10 17:32 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: reversal again? | Sep 10 17:33 |
schestowitz | They always describe it as "Linux geeks" | Sep 10 17:33 |
schestowitz | As if all Linux users must be geeks | Sep 10 17:33 |
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schestowitz | That's the Microsoft brainwash | Sep 10 17:33 |
schestowitz | That all users of Linux must be "geeks" | Sep 10 17:33 |
DaemonFC | Gentoo helps that impression btw | Sep 10 17:34 |
_Hicham_ | did u ever install Gentoo? | Sep 10 17:34 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it's such a nightmare to maintain though | Sep 10 17:34 |
DaemonFC | I gave up on it fairly quickly | Sep 10 17:35 |
schestowitz | Gentoo is not "Linux" | Sep 10 17:35 |
schestowitz | It's Gentoo | Sep 10 17:35 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : here is Ubuntu Community Manager with us | Sep 10 17:35 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : ask him ur great questions | Sep 10 17:35 |
DaemonFC | ahem.....as politely and nonchalantly, and as eloquently as I can say it | Sep 10 17:35 |
DaemonFC | "Get it FIXED!!!!" | Sep 10 17:35 |
DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 10 17:35 |
schestowitz | Microsoft execs also sell the impression in interviews that if you're not a geek, then you can't use Ubuntu for example | Sep 10 17:36 |
_Hicham_ | what should be fixed ? | Sep 10 17:36 |
schestowitz | The same old slurs | Sep 10 17:36 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: I'm just joking | Sep 10 17:36 |
DaemonFC | Karmic is already better than Jaunty though | Sep 10 17:36 |
DaemonFC | Jaunty had to be their worst release ever | Sep 10 17:36 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : jono is Ubuntu Community Manager | Sep 10 17:36 |
schestowitz | hub is back http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/09/09/684-empty-chairs-on-the-lake | Sep 10 17:36 |
DaemonFC | Jaunty broke pretty much every piece of hardware I have | Sep 10 17:37 |
trmanco | DaemonFC: Gusty was | Sep 10 17:37 |
trmanco | your hardware broke Jaunty | Sep 10 17:37 |
DaemonFC | nope | Sep 10 17:37 |
DaemonFC | can't blame this on anything proprietary whatsoever | Sep 10 17:37 |
DaemonFC | building a new kernel fixed most of that | Sep 10 17:38 |
schestowitz | Gutsy Gibbon is a good release name for Mono | Sep 10 17:38 |
trmanco | why? | Sep 10 17:38 |
trmanco | what did you do to the config? | Sep 10 17:38 |
DaemonFC | the reason I complained about it is that Ubuntu's whole reason for being is that you shouldn't *have* to compile things | Sep 10 17:38 |
trmanco | yes that's the logic | Sep 10 17:39 |
DaemonFC | well, it's the truth | Sep 10 17:39 |
DaemonFC | they have so many things to hold your hand | Sep 10 17:39 |
DaemonFC | and no compiler or proper build tools included | Sep 10 17:39 |
DaemonFC | so the message is that they don't expect you to have to use them | Sep 10 17:39 |
schestowitz | Klantigt Debian bakom OpenSSL-buggen http://opensource.idg.se/2.1014/1.161463/klantigt-debian-bakom-openssl-buggen | Sep 10 17:39 |
schestowitz | Google News bumps old news | Sep 10 17:40 |
DaemonFC | in fact, you have to remove some things or else Ubuntu will break any kernel you compile anyway | Sep 10 17:40 |
DaemonFC | nvidia-common is one of those things | Sep 10 17:40 |
DaemonFC | so if they make the environment so hostile towards compiling your own kernel and tell you that truly anyone should be able to use the one they provide, they should take care to make sure it doesn't break anything that Linux has supported natively for years | Sep 10 17:42 |
DaemonFC | that most PCs have | Sep 10 17:42 |
DaemonFC | not say "We give up" when there's still 3 months of alpha testing to go and patches to fix the problems | Sep 10 17:43 |
DaemonFC | at that point they shouldn't have even been using a 2.6.28 kernel anyway | Sep 10 17:44 |
DaemonFC | and there was a new version of Pulseaudio out that fixed the really obvious sound glitching | Sep 10 17:44 |
_Hicham_ | That's the fixed cycle release | Sep 10 17:45 |
DaemonFC | 2.6.29 was much more friendly towards wifi and had tons of cleanup to their Intel high definition audio drivers | Sep 10 17:45 |
_Hicham_ | there must must a feature freeze | Sep 10 17:46 |
DaemonFC | and it should have been pushed into Ubuntu regardless | Sep 10 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | no | Sep 10 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | no major updates | Sep 10 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | only security ones | Sep 10 17:46 |
DaemonFC | why? They knew they had screwed the pooch already | Sep 10 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | even if that means staying unstable | Sep 10 17:46 |
DaemonFC | what more could they have broken? | Sep 10 17:46 |
_Hicham_ | that is their policy | Sep 10 17:47 |
DaemonFC | Ubuntu 9.04 Pompous Poochscrew | Sep 10 17:47 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 17:47 |
DaemonFC | in fact, it was largely 8.10 and 9.04 that compelled me to lampoon Ubuntu in Uncyclopedia | Sep 10 17:49 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Jaunty is a good release | Sep 10 17:50 |
MinceR | not nearly as good as Hardy | Sep 10 17:50 |
_Hicham_ | MinceR : at least MinceR likes sthg | Sep 10 17:51 |
DaemonFC | maybe hardy after the first thousand bug fixes | Sep 10 17:52 |
MinceR | i know. i know MinceR very well. ;) | Sep 10 17:52 |
MinceR | intrepid and jaunty are a mess. | Sep 10 17:53 |
DaemonFC | I still have Hardy on my laptop just because of that damned ATI chipset | Sep 10 17:53 |
DaemonFC | hoping that the open source driver will be of some use to me by the time Hardy is EOL'd | Sep 10 17:53 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : is it a legacy chipset ? | Sep 10 17:53 |
DaemonFC | Radeon 200m | Sep 10 17:54 |
DaemonFC | yeah, "legacy" | Sep 10 17:54 |
_Hicham_ | isn't recognized by open source radeon driver ? | Sep 10 17:54 |
DaemonFC | those stupid ***********************************s at ATI | Sep 10 17:54 |
DaemonFC | abandone cards that are 3 years old | Sep 10 17:54 |
DaemonFC | Nvidia supports all theirs clear back to 1998 | Sep 10 17:54 |
DaemonFC | *abandon | Sep 10 17:54 |
_Hicham_ | maybe this chipset supports KMS | Sep 10 17:55 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: It kind of sort of is | Sep 10 17:55 |
DaemonFC | doesn't work as well as FGLRX | Sep 10 17:55 |
_Hicham_ | for games? | Sep 10 17:55 |
DaemonFC | so I decided to wait til Hardy is dropped and I have no choice but to use the free driver | Sep 10 17:55 |
DaemonFC | so we'll see where it is then | Sep 10 17:55 |
schestowitz | http://www.startribune.com/business/57780787.html?elr=KArksc8P:Pc:UthPacyPE7iUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU | Sep 10 17:55 |
schestowitz | "No, the Windows 7 option called "XP Mode" can't provide you with a full-screen view of an old DOS program." http://www.startribune.com/business/57780787.html?elr=KArksc8P:Pc:UthPacyPE7iUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU | Sep 10 17:56 |
_Hicham_ | if u want intensive 3D gaming, radeon will be of no use (almost) | Sep 10 17:56 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: WDDM dropped support for full screen DOS apps | Sep 10 17:56 |
_Hicham_ | but other than that, the graphics experience with KMS is great | Sep 10 17:56 |
DaemonFC | but 64-bit Windows can't run any DOS apps anyway | Sep 10 17:56 |
DaemonFC | you should really be using DOSbox | Sep 10 17:56 |
DaemonFC | you can get fullscreen DOS app support by using Windows XP display drivers on Vista | Sep 10 17:57 |
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DaemonFC | but then you lose DirectX 10.x support | Sep 10 17:57 |
DaemonFC | and can't play Blu Rays in HD | Sep 10 17:58 |
DaemonFC | they'll all revert to 576p | Sep 10 17:58 |
DaemonFC | even if they don't use the constraint token | Sep 10 17:58 |
MinceR | i thought ati's plan was that once they abandon cards, they'll already be supported by one of the free drivers | Sep 10 17:58 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Depends on how you define support | Sep 10 17:59 |
DaemonFC | ATI has always been sketchy about that | Sep 10 17:59 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 17:59 |
MinceR | :) | Sep 10 17:59 |
MinceR | i meant access to all features of the card | Sep 10 17:59 |
MinceR | including 3d acceleration | Sep 10 17:59 |
DaemonFC | We "support" Windows Vista (If you use our XP driver that was last updated in 2005) | Sep 10 17:59 |
DaemonFC | We "support" Linux through the open source Radeon driver (2d only) | Sep 10 18:00 |
DaemonFC | ATI is pure dog shit | Sep 10 18:00 |
_Hicham_ | ATI is helping open source | Sep 10 18:00 |
DaemonFC | We "support" you all the way (to 800 x 600) | Sep 10 18:00 |
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DaemonFC | to hell with them and their shitty GPus | Sep 10 18:00 |
_Hicham_ | by providing Specs to developers | Sep 10 18:00 |
DaemonFC | some specs, no code, and don't call us if you have a problem | Sep 10 18:01 |
DaemonFC | sounds geewhizbang good | Sep 10 18:01 |
DaemonFC | yeah sure youbetcha | Sep 10 18:01 |
_Hicham_ | better than reverse engineer completely | Sep 10 18:03 |
DaemonFC | Nvidia support on the other hand, will provide you with help even if they no longer make the card, even if it's been out of warranty for years | Sep 10 18:03 |
_Hicham_ | change ur laptop card then | Sep 10 18:03 |
DaemonFC | so I'll keep buying from the company that stands behind the product, not the one that plays games and pawns off their responsibilities to the customer | Sep 10 18:03 |
schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9137659/Image_gallery_6_easy_laptop_repairs | Sep 10 18:04 |
DaemonFC | if ATI had actually forked over anything particularly useful, the open source driver would have been working at least as well as theirs on day 1 | Sep 10 18:04 |
DaemonFC | not still shaky support for *some* cards years later | Sep 10 18:04 |
DaemonFC | PR move | Sep 10 18:04 |
DaemonFC | a real GPU manufacturer forking over real code is yet to be seen | Sep 10 18:06 |
DaemonFC | you can cite Intel, but that's like saying their boards have onboard audio so a sound card maker is supporting Linux | Sep 10 18:06 |
DaemonFC | and an onboard NIC, so networking card maker is supporting Linux too | Sep 10 18:07 |
DaemonFC | they really aren't competing in the market that Nvidia and ATI are | Sep 10 18:07 |
DaemonFC | their onboard video is basic and maybe just good enough to run Aero, Compiz, and some 5 year old games | Sep 10 18:07 |
DaemonFC | they want it to work for everyone and they aren't worried about trade secrets being snagged by their competitors | Sep 10 18:08 |
schestowitz | http://mono-nono.com/2009/09/10/mono-and-net/ | Sep 10 18:09 |
DaemonFC | it's kind of a shame that selecting KDE on Mandriva brings 90% of GNOME in anyway | Sep 10 18:12 |
DaemonFC | you may as well jsut pick both | Sep 10 18:12 |
DaemonFC | GNOME only install is about 2.8 gigs, a KDE only install is about 10 gigs | Sep 10 18:13 |
DaemonFC | both install in about 11 gigs | Sep 10 18:13 |
DaemonFC | they need to pitch their KDE version as the best GNOME desktop anywhere | Sep 10 18:14 |
DaemonFC | it's not really surprising that they have to bring in most of GNOME to make KDE work though | Sep 10 18:14 |
DaemonFC | they already have to bring in most of it just to give you legal codecs, Firefox, and Cheese webcam support | Sep 10 18:15 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : and the Control Center | Sep 10 18:18 |
_Hicham_ | don't forget that | Sep 10 18:18 |
DaemonFC | the control center uses QT and Webkit | Sep 10 18:18 |
_Hicham_ | Mandriva Control Center uses perl::Gtk2 | Sep 10 18:19 |
DaemonFC | Mandriva is really becoming a great GNOME desktop, but all of that is coming at the expense of KDE | Sep 10 18:19 |
_Hicham_ | Mandriva engineers are perl::Gtk2 masters | Sep 10 18:19 |
_Hicham_ | they have been picking up KDE because it has a lot of tools | Sep 10 18:20 |
_Hicham_ | I like Mandriva GNOME edition | Sep 10 18:21 |
DaemonFC | well, traditionally their KDE desktop was far better than GNOME | Sep 10 18:21 |
_Hicham_ | the only one that supports my modem | Sep 10 18:21 |
DaemonFC | but that's changed | Sep 10 18:21 |
_Hicham_ | no other distro supports my modem | Sep 10 18:21 |
DaemonFC | who still uses those? | Sep 10 18:21 |
_Hicham_ | uses what ? | Sep 10 18:22 |
DaemonFC | dial up modems? | Sep 10 18:22 |
schestowitz | Not spoiled kids | Sep 10 18:22 |
_Hicham_ | it is not dial up modem | Sep 10 18:22 |
DaemonFC | DSL is the same price | Sep 10 18:22 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: from Ryan's POV, if you are not American, you're retarded | Sep 10 18:22 |
DaemonFC | as dial up | Sep 10 18:22 |
DaemonFC | Cable isn't that much more | Sep 10 18:22 |
_Hicham_ | who is talking about dialup | Sep 10 18:22 |
_Hicham_ | I am talking about USB ADSL Modems | Sep 10 18:23 |
DaemonFC | heh | Sep 10 18:23 |
DaemonFC | that too | Sep 10 18:23 |
DaemonFC | hook it up through the ethernet port | Sep 10 18:23 |
_Hicham_ | not all people are willing to spend $40 for a router | Sep 10 18:23 |
_Hicham_ | since u got the modem forcibly | Sep 10 18:24 |
DaemonFC | why would you need a router? | Sep 10 18:24 |
DaemonFC | I've never seen any DSL or Cable modem that didn't have an ethernet port | Sep 10 18:24 |
DaemonFC | some have USB as well | Sep 10 18:24 |
_Hicham_ | those are modem-routers | Sep 10 18:24 |
DaemonFC | no they aren't | Sep 10 18:24 |
DaemonFC | if it has one or the other, it has ethernet | Sep 10 18:25 |
DaemonFC | most ISPs limit the firmware anyway so you can only use one port or the other even if it has both | Sep 10 18:25 |
DaemonFC | they're trying to upsell you to a modem that has a built in wireless router | Sep 10 18:26 |
DaemonFC | in case you aren't following me | Sep 10 18:26 |
DaemonFC | you don't have to get one, but then you end up spaghetti cabling a modem *and* a router | Sep 10 18:27 |
DaemonFC | the price of buying a modem lets you rent one off your ISP for a couple of years at the same price | Sep 10 18:29 |
DaemonFC | and if it breaks or becomes obsolete, and you own it, you have to go get a new one | Sep 10 18:29 |
DaemonFC | most stores don't even sell them because they aren't worth buying | Sep 10 18:29 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: If yours doesn't have an ethernet port, it's an oddball | Sep 10 18:31 |
_Hicham_ | that is the modem i am talking about : http://support.sagem-communications.com/site/modele_fax.php?page=produit&numero_type=9&produit=141 | Sep 10 18:31 |
DaemonFC | probably some no name manufacturer got cheap on you | Sep 10 18:31 |
DaemonFC | I'd really hate for USB only modems to become the norm | Sep 10 18:31 |
DaemonFC | would probably mean 2-3 years of Linux having spotty modem support | Sep 10 18:31 |
_Hicham_ | I paid about $25 for it | Sep 10 18:32 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Sep 10 18:32 |
_Hicham_ | a modem-router is $35 | Sep 10 18:32 |
DaemonFC | I've never seen them that cheap | Sep 10 18:32 |
schestowitz | Linux is ahead of the pack in USB | Sep 10 18:32 |
DaemonFC | course I haven't looked in a while | Sep 10 18:32 |
_Hicham_ | but i was forced to take that one | Sep 10 18:32 |
schestowitz | First to support USB3 | Sep 10 18:33 |
DaemonFC | USB, yeah | Sep 10 18:33 |
DaemonFC | not USB devices | Sep 10 18:33 |
_Hicham_ | it was not with this modems | Sep 10 18:33 |
schestowitz | depends | Sep 10 18:33 |
DaemonFC | having support for the USB standard and not the device you're trying to use helps a lot :P | Sep 10 18:33 |
_Hicham_ | It took me about 6 months to make it work with Linux | Sep 10 18:33 |
schestowitz | choose wisely | Sep 10 18:33 |
DaemonFC | I could get that with Windows XP x64 Edition :D | Sep 10 18:33 |
DaemonFC | I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft started leaning on broadband modem makers to go USB only | Sep 10 18:34 |
DaemonFC | would probably deal a serious blow to Linux | Sep 10 18:34 |
DaemonFC | one where you could only use Windows with your cable modem for years | Sep 10 18:35 |
DaemonFC | would be the return of the 56k Winmodem | Sep 10 18:35 |
MinceR | soho router makers would start attacking m$ then | Sep 10 18:36 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Remember the Winmodem? | Sep 10 18:37 |
DaemonFC | millions of them spanning thousands of models | Sep 10 18:37 |
MinceR | i do | Sep 10 18:37 |
DaemonFC | and only like 3-4 models were supported in Linux because some Linux developer had one and got bored | Sep 10 18:37 |
MinceR | i still have my real modems | Sep 10 18:37 |
MinceR | i don't use them though :> | Sep 10 18:38 |
DaemonFC | I have one in this system, never used it though | Sep 10 18:38 |
DaemonFC | lots of PC makers don't even put one in anymore | Sep 10 18:38 |
DaemonFC | Macs don't have them unless you buy the external USB one | Sep 10 18:39 |
Omar871 | Hi there. | Sep 10 18:39 |
MinceR | i have winmodems in both of my laptops | Sep 10 18:39 |
MinceR | (well, most likely winmodems. never tried to use them.) | Sep 10 18:39 |
DaemonFC | if it's a Conexant, it's a Winmodem | Sep 10 18:39 |
DaemonFC | there's some binary driver modules for Linux | Sep 10 18:40 |
DaemonFC | the freeware one is limited to 14.4 kbps | Sep 10 18:40 |
DaemonFC | you have to buy the 56.6 kbps one though | Sep 10 18:40 |
MinceR | pft | Sep 10 18:40 |
MinceR | conexant sucks | Sep 10 18:40 |
MinceR | they killed the bt878, too | Sep 10 18:40 |
DaemonFC | if you need to send a fax, the freeware module is good enough | Sep 10 18:40 |
DaemonFC | I may file a bug report on Banshee and ask Mandriva to apply the Last FM patch themselves | Sep 10 18:41 |
schestowitz | wtf?? | Sep 10 18:42 |
schestowitz | Microsoft Launches Open Source Foundation http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Microsoft-Launches-Open-Source-Foundation-431416/?kc=deicazaisalamer | Sep 10 18:42 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : are u using Mandriva ? | Sep 10 18:44 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 10 18:44 |
schestowitz | GEEZ! That's a bad headline. Thanks! | Sep 10 18:44 |
schestowitz | See the above lads | Sep 10 18:44 |
schestowitz | Miguel is joining Microsoft | Sep 10 18:45 |
_Hicham_ | CodePlex rocks | Sep 10 18:45 |
schestowitz | I'll do a post | Sep 10 18:45 |
_Hicham_ | only MS software | Sep 10 18:45 |
_Hicham_ | only MS technology | Sep 10 18:45 |
_Hicham_ | can I get visual studio for free ? yes, sir, as long as u use our technolgy | Sep 10 18:45 |
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_Hicham_ | that is why we see a lot of open source projects using MSVC+MFC | Sep 10 18:46 |
_Hicham_ | example : 7zip | Sep 10 18:46 |
trmanco | 7zip? | Sep 10 18:48 |
_Hicham_ | yes, that why its unix port took a whil | Sep 10 18:49 |
_Hicham_ | *while | Sep 10 18:49 |
*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 10 18:50 | |
DaemonFC | I filed a bug on it | Sep 10 18:55 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 10 18:55 |
DaemonFC | see, if something pisses me off enough I'll file a bug | Sep 10 18:55 |
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*zlg has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Sep 10 19:10 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Miguel de Icaza Joins #Microsoft http://bit.ly/VuAir | Sep 10 19:11 | |
schestowitz | bbl | Sep 10 19:13 |
trmanco | but 7zip works under linux | Sep 10 19:19 |
trmanco | the library that actually compresses files exists | Sep 10 19:19 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - Help Required With KDE Basket http://tinyurl.com/kkt8uc | Sep 10 19:22 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Aussie financial firms dump Unix, Windows for Linux on the mainframe: http://is.gd/37lyS | Sep 10 20:01 | |
trmanco | Aussie financial firms dump Unix, Windows for Linux on the mainframe: http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid80_gci1367755,00.html?track=sy185 | Sep 10 20:01 |
trmanco | ah | Sep 10 20:01 |
trmanco | there it is | Sep 10 20:01 |
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DaemonFC | OpenSuse 11.2 M7 is out | Sep 10 20:21 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft: Yep, we teach Best Buy to trash Linux: http://is.gd/37o2w | Sep 10 20:23 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] today i did user testing at canonical. can't say what, but it's way cool and coming in october. got a bag of ubuntu merch. f has a new hat! | Sep 10 20:31 | |
DaemonFC | Is it brown and brown and brown all over? | Sep 10 20:33 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 20:33 |
*sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 10 20:33 | |
sebsebseb | hi | Sep 10 20:33 |
trmanco | hello | Sep 10 20:36 |
DaemonFC | OpenSuse is shortening the support lifetime from 24 months to 18 months | Sep 10 20:37 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: OpenSuse no thanks, with it's weird menu in Gnome | Sep 10 20:37 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb: That menu is available on any distribution | Sep 10 20:38 |
DaemonFC | it's called gnome-main-menu | Sep 10 20:38 |
DaemonFC | you can use the Applications/Places/System menu in OpenSuse though | Sep 10 20:38 |
cubezzz | wait a sec, isn't Miguel de Icaza the gnome guy? | Sep 10 20:38 |
sebsebseb | last time I tried OpenSuse in a vm, it still had weird menu or whatever it was | Sep 10 20:38 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb: Just remove that one and add the default one | Sep 10 20:38 |
cubezzz | how could he be a microsoft guy? | Sep 10 20:38 |
DaemonFC | it's not difficult | Sep 10 20:38 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: anyway I thought this channal was basically an anti Novell channal, and OpenSuse is linked to Novell as well | Sep 10 20:39 |
DaemonFC | the SLAB menu saves some screen real estate by not requiring two panels | Sep 10 20:39 |
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wallclimber | I just finished reading the BN post about OIN and the SGI patents it purchased. I found it all to be quite confusing, in that some sources that were referenced seemed to indicate that OIN itself may have sinister, ulterior motives for collecting patents. I understand why software patents, themselves, are sinister...but what has OIN done to cause anyone to think they may become as bad as the tr | Sep 10 20:41 |
wallclimber | olls? Did I misunderstand the BN post? | Sep 10 20:41 |
DaemonFC | sebsebseb: Novell is not profitable anyway | Sep 10 20:43 |
sebsebseb | DaemonFC: no? | Sep 10 20:44 |
DaemonFC | their expenses have been exceeding their income lately | Sep 10 20:44 |
DaemonFC | they laid off a bunch of employees over the last 2 years | Sep 10 20:45 |
DaemonFC | they're not in big trouble yet | Sep 10 20:45 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Linux Foundation to #Microsoft: stop secretly attacking #Linux : http://is.gd/37qbL | Sep 10 20:47 | |
DaemonFC | I believe Suse is also the only distribution which provides legal MP3 encoding for free | Sep 10 20:47 |
DaemonFC | Banshee-Helix gets the licensed encoder from Real | Sep 10 20:47 |
Diablo-D3 | damnit | Sep 10 20:56 |
Diablo-D3 | I want radeonhd to work so badly | Sep 10 20:56 |
cubezzz | microsoft training best buy to slam linux is bad but... | Sep 10 20:56 |
cubezzz | it's so ridiculous | Sep 10 20:56 |
Diablo-D3 | anyone here try it yet? | Sep 10 20:57 |
Diablo-D3 | its so fucking fast | Sep 10 20:57 |
cubezzz | that and FOSS drivers would be pretty good :) | Sep 10 20:58 |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, no linux drivers then? | Sep 10 20:59 |
DaemonFC | Last FM has basically trashed 3rd party player support | Sep 10 20:59 |
trmanco | Yahoo shares lifted by analyst's upgrade: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/yahoo-shares-lifted-by-upgrade-2009-09-10?siteid=rss&rss=1 | Sep 10 20:59 |
DaemonFC | their new API is so fucked up and slow that Banshee can't even sign in and Rhythmbox takes like 10 seconds to start playing any song | Sep 10 20:59 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: radeonhd is the replacement for new cards under fglrx | Sep 10 21:00 |
Diablo-D3 | I tried it the other day again | Sep 10 21:00 |
Diablo-D3 | zooooooooooomj | Sep 10 21:00 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Spotify finally caught onto me | Sep 10 21:01 |
DaemonFC | realized that I had signed up with an open proxy server in the UK and banned my account | Sep 10 21:01 |
cubezzz | I'll throw this out just for interest's sake: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_hardware_and_FOSS | Sep 10 21:01 |
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trmanco | anybody here use energy saving light bulbs? | Sep 10 21:02 |
MinceR | i do | Sep 10 21:03 |
MinceR | the main light and the light behind the monitors are CFLs, the keyboard lighting is a USB LED | Sep 10 21:03 |
MinceR | but there are some incandescent bulbs in my flat | Sep 10 21:03 |
trmanco | cool | Sep 10 21:04 |
MinceR | (the first line was about my room) | Sep 10 21:04 |
trmanco | I'm impressed with these light bulbs | Sep 10 21:04 |
MinceR | their spectrum isn't always friendly | Sep 10 21:04 |
MinceR | especially the LED is kind of vile... but it works for what i'm using it | Sep 10 21:04 |
MinceR | and the CFL is kind of noisy, but it doesn't bother me that much, usually a computer is on and is louder. | Sep 10 21:05 |
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MinceR | (it took me a long time to find such a low-power CFL to light the wall behind the monitors :) ) | Sep 10 21:05 |
cubezzz2 | ugh | Sep 10 21:05 |
trmanco | CFL | Sep 10 21:05 |
trmanco | ? | Sep 10 21:05 |
MinceR | compact flurescent light | Sep 10 21:06 |
trmanco | ya | Sep 10 21:06 |
trmanco | found it on wiki | Sep 10 21:06 |
cubezzz2 | Canadian Football? :) | Sep 10 21:06 |
MinceR | i wonder if those big LED bulbs have a good spectrum | Sep 10 21:06 |
DaemonFC | What's a good Last FM replacement? | Sep 10 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | there isnt one | Sep 10 21:07 |
Diablo-D3 | and last.fm kind of sucked | Sep 10 21:07 |
*MinceR has always been too paranoid to use last.fm | Sep 10 21:07 | |
DaemonFC | Spotify is better but they don't allow people in the US to listen | Sep 10 21:07 |
DaemonFC | so I have to create a new account every time they find out | Sep 10 21:08 |
MinceR | none of your base are belong to US | Sep 10 21:08 |
DaemonFC | that takes about a week or two on every account I create | Sep 10 21:08 |
*cubezzz has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 10 21:08 | |
*cubezzz2 is now known as cubezz | Sep 10 21:08 | |
*cubezz is now known as cubezzz | Sep 10 21:09 | |
DaemonFC | the music cartel in Europe won't license the music for streaming to the United States because our cartel doesn't like competing with their front group in Europe | Sep 10 21:09 |
DaemonFC | even though our cartel licensed it to their cartel | Sep 10 21:10 |
DaemonFC | B-) | Sep 10 21:10 |
MinceR | another case for piracy! | Sep 10 21:10 |
wallclimber | what is the benefit of online radio? | Sep 10 21:10 |
DaemonFC | gives me ideas for what to take off Demonoid | Sep 10 21:10 |
wallclimber | why not just use your own music collection? | Sep 10 21:10 |
DaemonFC | whoops | Sep 10 21:10 |
DaemonFC | you didn't hear that | Sep 10 21:10 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 10 21:11 |
wallclimber | i heard that | Sep 10 21:11 |
MinceR | whoops, it was publicly logged | Sep 10 21:11 |
MinceR | :> | Sep 10 21:11 |
*DaemonFC shoots wallclimber | Sep 10 21:11 | |
DaemonFC | no, you didn't | Sep 10 21:11 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 10 21:11 |
online radio helps you build your collection. | Sep 10 21:11 | |
cubezzz | oopsie :) | Sep 10 21:11 |
*DaemonFC shoots the logging bot | Sep 10 21:11 | |
DaemonFC | it didn't either | Sep 10 21:11 |
wallclimber | wallclimber is silenced forever | Sep 10 21:11 |
*MinceR shoots DaemonFC | Sep 10 21:11 | |
trmanco | libre.fm | Sep 10 21:11 |
MinceR | now you have nothing to worry about anymore! | Sep 10 21:11 |
wallclimber | i love shoot outs | Sep 10 21:11 |
cubezzz | no fighting in the war room! | Sep 10 21:11 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 10 21:12 |
*DaemonFC dodges the bullet | Sep 10 21:12 | |
*DaemonFC is the chosen one | Sep 10 21:12 | |
MinceR | Animaniacs ftw | Sep 10 21:12 |
hmmm, I still have FC blocked on this client. | Sep 10 21:12 | |
trmanco | the article about CFL's on wikipedia is really complete | Sep 10 21:12 |
*MinceR turns the bullet into a seeking one and turns it around. | Sep 10 21:12 | |
*DaemonFC gets in front of Mincer and dodges the bullet as it comes back | Sep 10 21:12 | |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 21:12 |
wallclimber | we're using water guns, right? | Sep 10 21:12 |
DaemonFC | mmmmm, sure | Sep 10 21:12 |
*MinceR bounces the bullet off, right at DaemonFC | Sep 10 21:12 | |
online radio is like listening to someone else's collection. that can be nice and everyone should be able to run one. | Sep 10 21:12 | |
wallclimber | i have a wonderful collection of music | Sep 10 21:13 |
M$ people squirt all sorts of things. They aim to damage. | Sep 10 21:13 | |
DaemonFC | I finally gave up lugging around a FLAC collection | Sep 10 21:13 |
it would be nice if you could share that collection. | Sep 10 21:13 | |
wallclimber | it would be fun to share it, but i don't want to get sued | Sep 10 21:13 |
in the US, you will lose everything and then some. | Sep 10 21:13 | |
MinceR | DaemonFC: how big was it? | Sep 10 21:14 |
there's a constitutional issue there. | Sep 10 21:14 | |
DaemonFC | MinceR: When I converted it all to Vorbis and deleted the FLACs? | Sep 10 21:14 |
MinceR | no, when it was all FLACs | Sep 10 21:14 |
wallclimber | i started buying music with my first allowance money when i was 9 years old...bought an Elvis record | Sep 10 21:14 |
DaemonFC | the FLACs were about 800 gigabytes | Sep 10 21:14 |
DaemonFC | that become about 90 gigabytes of Vorbis | Sep 10 21:14 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft Windows is a family of operating systems designed to drive you to madness.: http://is.gd/37sGK | Sep 10 21:15 | |
MinceR | well, 2 portable HDDs would hold all the FLACs and have space left over :> | Sep 10 21:15 |
wallclimber | around here we've spent years, lieterally years, digitizing our music. We even still have some 8-track tapes in the storeroom | Sep 10 21:15 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it just sucks trying to keep a FLAC collection when you can store 10 times as many in Vorbis | Sep 10 21:15 |
wallclimber | still have nearly 1000 LPs that need to be copied | Sep 10 21:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] He's been shilling for MSFT/NOVL for years. Screw him.RT: @schestowitz: Miguel de Icaza Joins #Microsoft http://bit.ly/VuAir | Sep 10 21:16 | |
DaemonFC | Vorbis Quality 5 is pretty damned good | Sep 10 21:16 |
DaemonFC | averages 160 kbps | Sep 10 21:16 |
DaemonFC | still sounds as good as a 320 kbps MP3 | Sep 10 21:16 |
wallclimber | unfortunately, we didn't understand about lossy formats when we first started this | Sep 10 21:16 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] oracle says they'll spend more on solaris and sparc http://www.oracle.com/features/suncustomers.html hmm, we'll see | Sep 10 21:17 | |
DaemonFC | wallclimber: If you have to use only lossy, go for AAC or Vorbis | Sep 10 21:17 |
DaemonFC | more bang for the buck than MP3 | Sep 10 21:17 |
wallclimber | yes, we do now | Sep 10 21:17 |
wallclimber | but those early years we did mp3 | Sep 10 21:18 |
wallclimber | didn't know any better | Sep 10 21:18 |
DaemonFC | wallclimber: Nero AAC is pretty good | Sep 10 21:18 |
DaemonFC | the main reason I switched to Vorbis is that it is slightly better yet and I don't have to use Windows programs in Wine to encode it :) | Sep 10 21:18 |
DaemonFC | there's a Nero AAC encoder for Linux, but no GUI front ends for it | Sep 10 21:19 |
MinceR | i thought you said AAC was better | Sep 10 21:19 |
cubezzz | interesting to note early windows wasn't even stand-alone | Sep 10 21:19 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Depends on which AAC profile you use | Sep 10 21:19 |
DaemonFC | Nero won't let you use HE-AAC above ~80 kbps | Sep 10 21:19 |
DaemonFC | and the Coding Technologies encoder will go up to 256 kbps but you lsoe VBR support | Sep 10 21:20 |
cubezzz | Xerox really really screwed up | Sep 10 21:20 |
DaemonFC | *lose | Sep 10 21:20 |
DaemonFC | if you're going below 96 kbps, you should use HE-AAC | Sep 10 21:20 |
Diablo-D3 | well, v2 if you can | Sep 10 21:21 |
DaemonFC | SBR + PS helps a lot, but it still can't match a 128kbps Vorbis file | Sep 10 21:21 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well | Sep 10 21:21 |
Diablo-D3 | its like this | Sep 10 21:21 |
Diablo-D3 | if you're streaming | Sep 10 21:21 |
Diablo-D3 | use he-aac v2 | Sep 10 21:21 |
DaemonFC | the main reason for HEv2 is to get really really tiny files that sound "OK" | Sep 10 21:21 |
Diablo-D3 | if you're encoding for high quality archival, use normal AAC | Sep 10 21:21 |
Diablo-D3 | or flac | Sep 10 21:21 |
*Diablo-D3 flacs everything | Sep 10 21:22 | |
DaemonFC | well, they headed off Ogg Vorbis by not charging royalties to stream AAC | Sep 10 21:22 |
Diablo-D3 | royalites dont work anyhow | Sep 10 21:22 |
Diablo-D3 | just go after hardware manufacturers and leave everyone else alone | Sep 10 21:23 |
DaemonFC | so now they can say that you get half the bandwidth used and almost as good results | Sep 10 21:23 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: That's typically been their strategy | Sep 10 21:23 |
Diablo-D3 | its the only strat that works | Sep 10 21:23 |
DaemonFC | it's legal to use MP3 to make a "personal music library" | Sep 10 21:23 |
Diablo-D3 | going after individuals pisses your entire fanbase off | Sep 10 21:23 |
DaemonFC | without paying royalties | Sep 10 21:23 |
LOL. A privacy tool for facebook that gives you keys and stores the data for you! -> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/09/1931211/Cryptographic-Tools-To-Keep-You-Hidden-On-Facebook | Sep 10 21:23 | |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: there isn't just streaming and high-quality archival :> | Sep 10 21:24 |
Trust us with your dirty laundry please. Tools like that highlight the folly of "Cloud computing" | Sep 10 21:24 | |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: there basically is | Sep 10 21:24 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: either you want to retain full quality or you want to stream it | Sep 10 21:24 |
DaemonFC | I chose Vorbis q5 because it lets me make a library that I can stand listening to on my PC and doesn't overwhelm the portable | Sep 10 21:25 |
wallclimber | argh...facebook. i finally had to join to keep the grandkids happy...it seems the only place they'll post pictures anymore is on facebook...i hate it | Sep 10 21:25 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: obviously some platforms suck and cant do flac, but most of them have some alternative | Sep 10 21:25 |
wallclimber | then they nag because i won't sign up (finally did this weekend tho) | Sep 10 21:25 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: or you need to fit a lot of music on a small flash storage device :> | Sep 10 21:25 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: FLAC is well supported on all operating systems | Sep 10 21:25 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: thats typically a streaming solution imo | Sep 10 21:25 |
DaemonFC | even Windows users use it | Sep 10 21:25 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: you have very little space but need to maximize the quality | Sep 10 21:25 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: but you have a total size limit instead of a bitrate limit | Sep 10 21:26 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: nope, it really is a bitrate limit | Sep 10 21:26 |
wallclimber | storage space for music is a top priority here. every time i get some extra money i buy more drives | Sep 10 21:27 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: nope, it really isn't | Sep 10 21:27 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yeah, it really is, you're just conceptualizing it wrong | Sep 10 21:27 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: bandwidth is a function of time. | Sep 10 21:27 |
MinceR | (unless your decoder is limiting you by processing power) | Sep 10 21:27 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: have you ever heard of VBR? :> | Sep 10 21:27 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: have you heard that streaming uses VBR effectively? | Sep 10 21:27 |
Get your gradkids to run their own webserver. Any GNU/Linux distro will do. Then they can really share their pictures. | Sep 10 21:28 | |
wallclimber | has anyone else digitized old LPs? | Sep 10 21:28 |
Yes. | Sep 10 21:28 | |
all of mine | Sep 10 21:29 | |
worked out OK. | Sep 10 21:29 | |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: its a bandwidth limitation on small devices because you _still_ need to maximize what you have | Sep 10 21:29 |
not as good as CDs | Sep 10 21:29 | |
wallclimber | we have a Numark turntable with usb, and it works ok, but not as well as we'd like | Sep 10 21:29 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: since total space is not a function of the length of time of the music | Sep 10 21:29 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: ergo, you need as much quality in as few bits as possible | Sep 10 21:29 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: its the same exact problem. | Sep 10 21:29 |
one of those commercial things that only saves to a "music" CD that costs $1 each? | Sep 10 21:29 | |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: in the case of streaming, the maximum bandwidth matters because your listeners might have limited pipe | Sep 10 21:29 |
hate them. | Sep 10 21:29 | |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: but you still have a limited pipe | Sep 10 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: you have x bits once instead of x bits per second | Sep 10 21:30 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: in the case of small storage, it doesn't matter because they aren't going to max out the bandwidth of the flash card. | Sep 10 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no, you're thinking of the problem wrong | Sep 10 21:30 |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: exactly, which isn't the same. | Sep 10 21:30 |
hook your normal stereo into your computer. it's a little more work but the results are better. | Sep 10 21:30 | |
MinceR | Diablo-D3: no, you are. | Sep 10 21:30 |
wallclimber | no, it's a turntable that plugs into the computer by usb, and records directly into the computer | Sep 10 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | no, I'm thinking about it the right way | Sep 10 21:30 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: those usually suck btw | Sep 10 21:30 |
so, what's the problem? | Sep 10 21:31 | |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: lower quality than just buying high end gear yourself | Sep 10 21:31 |
wallclimber | well, i didn't know what to buy, and the numark was affordable | Sep 10 21:31 |
bad turntable | Sep 10 21:31 | |
cubezzz | I suppose you could set up a good turntable, output to speakers and record that | Sep 10 21:31 |
nooooooo! | Sep 10 21:31 | |
wallclimber | noooo! is right lol | Sep 10 21:31 |
if you have a nice stereo, just plug a line out into your computers line in. | Sep 10 21:31 | |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: you buy a normal turntable, output to 1/4" jacks, then record that to a high end pro sound card | Sep 10 21:31 |
Diablo-D3 | seriously people, quit trying to make this so difficult | Sep 10 21:32 |
Diablo-D3 | recording analog sources is incredibly easy | Sep 10 21:32 |
Debian has a few programs to make it easier, something like "gramaphile" | Sep 10 21:32 | |
wallclimber | thanks twitter, i'll look into it | Sep 10 21:32 |
wallclimber | i hadn't heard ofgramaphile before | Sep 10 21:32 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: you should buy a good sound card to begin with | Sep 10 21:32 |
wallclimber | well, i don't have a big budget for the music hobby | Sep 10 21:33 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: $99 is not too much | Sep 10 21:33 |
wallclimber | we've just tried to use hat we have or what we can afford | Sep 10 21:33 |
I just used a vanilla recorder, krecord or krec then split the output by hand with audacity | Sep 10 21:33 | |
wallclimber | *what* | Sep 10 21:33 |
also used audacity filters | Sep 10 21:33 | |
Diablo-D3 | care of the turntable is the most important | Sep 10 21:34 |
right, what I did only cost me time. | Sep 10 21:34 | |
had a nice mid 80s turntable and Sony amp | Sep 10 21:34 | |
Diablo-D3 | don't even bother with the amp | Sep 10 21:34 |
DaemonFC | I wonder if Last.FM would work if I installed the Windows version in Wine | Sep 10 21:35 |
wallclimber | Diablo-D3, $99 isn't too much? I'm so happy you said that, please send it to me lol | Sep 10 21:35 |
recorded with KDE's sound recording program. Either Krecord or Krec. These a generic, aka vanilla, sound recording programs. | Sep 10 21:35 | |
Audacity is a common sound editing program with a good interface and good filters. | Sep 10 21:36 | |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: buy an audiotrak prodigy hd2 | Sep 10 21:36 |
I recorded to wav and transcoded to ogg vorbis, then saved the results on CD. | Sep 10 21:36 | |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: it supports up to 24-bit 96khz recording, and only one of 5 cards I'd ever own | Sep 10 21:37 |
wallclimber | Diablo-D3: thanks, i'll investigate it | Sep 10 21:37 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: I own one myself, btw | Sep 10 21:37 |
Diablo-D3 | quality is near perfect | Sep 10 21:37 |
I've seen some of the commercial turntables but they usually terrible. | Sep 10 21:38 | |
Diablo-D3 | what you do is take a normal analog turntable | Sep 10 21:38 |
wallclimber | twitter: audacity is a beautiful program, isn't it? | Sep 10 21:38 |
Diablo-D3 | get a cable that converts from whatever it outputs (usually rca, sometimes dual analog 1/4") to 3.5mm | Sep 10 21:38 |
wallclimber | i'm listening | Sep 10 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | then turn the recording volume on the card up the whole way (but dont use the +20dB amp if it has one, this one dont) | Sep 10 21:39 |
Diablo-D3 | and then turn the turntable down to the loudest peak on the record is -3dB | Sep 10 21:39 |
wallclimber | (wallclimber copying and pasting all this information :) | Sep 10 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | and btw | Sep 10 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | dont buy a cheap cable | Sep 10 21:40 |
Diablo-D3 | people keep buying dollar store shit and wonders why everything sounds bad | Sep 10 21:41 |
wallclimber | i learned about cheap cables the hard way, so i do know better now | Sep 10 21:41 |
Diablo-D3 | blue jeans cable typically produces really high quality stuff | Sep 10 21:42 |
Diablo-D3 | I really like them because everything is assembled in the US by people who arent morons | Sep 10 21:43 |
Diablo-D3 | http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm | Sep 10 21:43 |
Diablo-D3 | scroll down to bjc msa-1, you'd want 1/8" to RCA for most ... well, everything | Sep 10 21:43 |
DaemonFC | I should make a Prism application for Last.FM | Sep 10 21:44 |
DaemonFC | they can't shut that down | Sep 10 21:44 |
wallclimber | this is great. we've ripped all our music cds already, and managed to get some semi-decent copies of some old cassettes that we couldn't replace...but the LP conversion has been a challenge | Sep 10 21:44 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: then you just have to find a good classic turntable | Sep 10 21:45 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: turntables are so problematic sometimes though | Sep 10 21:46 |
wallclimber | actually, we have two old turntables, nice ones in their day, but no longer working. we thought we needed something like the numark to convert the LPs | Sep 10 21:46 |
Diablo-D3 | like my setup here would actually be perfect for it | Sep 10 21:46 |
Diablo-D3 | I have a double converting transformer | Sep 10 21:46 |
Diablo-D3 | and ahead of it I have a Brickwall | Sep 10 21:47 |
*_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.249.77.191) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 10 21:47 | |
wallclimber | i think we'll get it figured out eventually. it's mostly our weekend hobby project here. so it's fun | Sep 10 21:47 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: well | Sep 10 21:47 |
Diablo-D3 | the problem with turntables is they sometimes frequency drift due to shit on electrical lines | Sep 10 21:47 |
Diablo-D3 | they're really a pita to deal with | Sep 10 21:47 |
Diablo-D3 | but I don't think you want to buy a $500 UPS just to record audio with | Sep 10 21:48 |
Diablo-D3 | and theres no really other useful option | Sep 10 21:48 |
wallclimber | I have UPS all over the place. t | Sep 10 21:49 |
that's basically all I have. Sorry about your old turntables, those are the best. You might find a decent on in a thrift store, but it's important to also have a good amp with a "phono" input. | Sep 10 21:49 | |
bbl | Sep 10 21:49 | |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: yeah, but none of yours are double converting always on, I bet | Sep 10 21:50 |
oh yeah, the amp also needs an "aux" or "tape" out. have fun! | Sep 10 21:50 | |
Diablo-D3 | twitter: you dont use an amp for this! | Sep 10 21:50 |
DaemonFC | Apparently Last FM gave an API key to the Banshee team for free | Sep 10 21:51 |
DaemonFC | and 1.6 will be able to connect again | Sep 10 21:51 |
wallclimber | thanks! :) | Sep 10 21:51 |
_Hicham_ | so that u can enjoy last.fm | Sep 10 21:51 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: btw, you may wanna see if you can find some technics sl-1200 | Sep 10 21:51 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: its like the holy grail of turntables | Sep 10 21:51 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC the mono promoter | Sep 10 21:51 |
DaemonFC | I got it from a drinking fountain | Sep 10 21:52 |
DaemonFC | *cough* | Sep 10 21:52 |
wallclimber | :) | Sep 10 21:52 |
wallclimber | will do | Sep 10 21:52 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: one thats been properly maintained (or new, they've been making them again recently) will do you great | Sep 10 21:52 |
*MrF (i=5acce531@gateway/web/freenode/x-iwemzgzwdxzbcnyn) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 10 21:52 | |
wallclimber | i think we may hit some 2nd hand stores this weekend | Sep 10 21:52 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: and also, its still a pita to record records. it'll take you a lot of practice to get a good recording | Sep 10 21:53 |
MrF | Hey Roy, what time you got so far for the 2 miler? | Sep 10 21:53 |
Diablo-D3 | its often easier to just buy remasterings of anything available on CD | Sep 10 21:53 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: oh, and btw, that sound card can record natively in 44.1khz | Sep 10 21:53 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: They ruin the remastered CDs though | Sep 10 21:53 |
wallclimber | we don't mind the time, we just enjoy doing it | Sep 10 21:53 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: if you plan on reburning to CD, 24-bit/44.1khz is nice | Sep 10 21:53 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: if you're not, use the full 96khz | Sep 10 21:53 |
Diablo-D3 | wallclimber: it preserves more of the original sound imo | Sep 10 21:54 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: Vinyl should be imported with 92 Khz sampling | Sep 10 21:54 |
DaemonFC | or 48 Khz if you're going straight to MP3 or Vorbis | Sep 10 21:54 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: dude, shut up. | Sep 10 21:54 |
Diablo-D3 | and they ruin SOME remasterings, the internet lets you know which | Sep 10 21:54 |
DaemonFC | the "remastered" CDs are usually botched with dynamic range compression | Sep 10 21:55 |
Diablo-D3 | its usually shit no one cares about | Sep 10 21:55 |
Diablo-D3 | like metallica | Sep 10 21:55 |
DaemonFC | because the people doing that shit are idiots | Sep 10 21:55 |
Diablo-D3 | hear the new beatles remasterings? | Sep 10 21:55 |
DaemonFC | why would I have? | Sep 10 21:55 |
Diablo-D3 | well, seeing as the beatles are the holy grail of music on records, you should | Sep 10 21:56 |
MinceR | old metallica is fine | Sep 10 21:56 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: even old metallica kinda sucks | Sep 10 21:56 |
DaemonFC | they pwned themselves with Death Magnetic though | Sep 10 21:56 |
MinceR | and certainly better than beatles | Sep 10 21:56 |
DaemonFC | they fucked up the official CD so badly that the XBOX 360 rip on Bittorrent is the preferred version | Sep 10 21:56 |
*Diablo-D3 actually likes the beatles damnit | Sep 10 21:56 | |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, do you know of any way to repair a corrupted mpg video file? | Sep 10 21:56 |
wallclimber | yes, we are very protective of our Beatles LP collection | Sep 10 21:57 |
*jono has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 10 21:57 | |
DaemonFC | even people on the official Metallica forum tell you to go get the XBOX 360 rip off Bittorrent | Sep 10 21:57 |
ThistleWeb | cubezzz: try opening it in avidemux, it may offer to rebuild the index | Sep 10 21:57 |
DaemonFC | now that is funny | Sep 10 21:57 |
ThistleWeb | failing that, there may be other options in avidemux to run it through that will help | Sep 10 21:58 |
wallclimber | well, thanks for all the help and advice, i'd best get back to work now :) | Sep 10 21:58 |
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 10 21:58 | |
*MrF has quit ("Page closed") | Sep 10 21:59 | |
_Hicham_ | who tested audio/video in pidgin ? | Sep 10 21:59 |
*schestowitz listens to http://www.linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/1 | Sep 10 21:59 | |
cubezzz | ThistleWeb, thanks, I'll try that | Sep 10 21:59 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : do u have a GTalk account ? | Sep 10 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | vlc has some conversion options too that many people forget about | Sep 10 22:00 |
schestowitz | http://thistleweb.co.uk/2009/09/10/help-required-with-kde-basket/ | Sep 10 22:00 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: yes | Sep 10 22:00 |
ThistleWeb | that may only work if you are happy converting it to .ogv or .avi etc | Sep 10 22:00 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: I only have one contact on it | Sep 10 22:01 |
cubezzz | ThistleWeb, yeah I'd rather fix the mpeg file if possible | Sep 10 22:01 |
cubezzz | what happened is it's a mpeg file but has other stuff embedded inside it | Sep 10 22:01 |
ThistleWeb | avidemux would be the first thing I'd try then | Sep 10 22:01 |
_Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did u test pidgin audio/video support ? | Sep 10 22:01 |
cubezzz | so I need some utility to extract all the valid mpeg frames | Sep 10 22:02 |
ThistleWeb | I found that sometimes it needs to rebuild the index when it opens for some files | Sep 10 22:02 |
DaemonFC | _Hicham_: How would I? | Sep 10 22:03 |
DaemonFC | nobody I know has Gtalk | Sep 10 22:03 |
ThistleWeb | it may be as simple as a broken or corrupted index thats causing the problems, in which case just save it after it's successfully opened, with both audio and video set to copy and it should be fine | Sep 10 22:03 |
ThistleWeb | there's gframecatcher too, which gives the screenshots you often see of videos, with lots of options for how frequent the snapshot etc, separate images or a grid etc | Sep 10 22:05 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 10 22:06 | |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Google is trying to charge for news now | Sep 10 22:06 |
DaemonFC | http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2009/09/07/daily65.html | Sep 10 22:06 |
Diablo-D3 | [04:05:25] <cubezzz> Diablo-D3, do you know of any way to repair a corrupted mpg video file? | Sep 10 22:08 |
Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: use mplayer | Sep 10 22:08 |
DaemonFC | that Schwann's guy was flirting with me | Sep 10 22:11 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 10 22:11 |
Diablo-D3 | ye gods, DaemonFC is gay? | Sep 10 22:13 |
DaemonFC | :D | Sep 10 22:15 |
trmanco | http://www.poppyfields.net/filks/00160.html | Sep 10 22:15 |
DaemonFC | or maybe I'm just fabulous | Sep 10 22:15 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: no problem, I have alternatives to Google | Sep 10 22:16 |
schestowitz | Miike was here (MrF) | Sep 10 22:16 |
schestowitz | I missed his arrival | Sep 10 22:16 |
_goblin | trmanco: like the link.....if only they had known where it would have ended up. | Sep 10 22:16 |
DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: I order some things from Schwan's sometimes | Sep 10 22:17 |
DaemonFC | cause Walmart's meat is naaaaaaasty | Sep 10 22:17 |
trmanco | :D | Sep 10 22:17 |
Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: walmart... has meat? | Sep 10 22:17 |
DaemonFC | well, I suppose you could call it that | Sep 10 22:17 |
cubezzz | I recommend give Walmart a miss | Sep 10 22:18 |
DaemonFC | they pack it in some kind of nitrogen filled container | Sep 10 22:18 |
DaemonFC | they have to use food coloring in it | Sep 10 22:18 |
DaemonFC | cause it's really purple | Sep 10 22:18 |
DaemonFC | Wal-Mart that is | Sep 10 22:18 |
DaemonFC | all chewy and full of gristle | Sep 10 22:18 |
*Diablo-D3 ponders adding DaemonFC back to his ignore | Sep 10 22:18 | |
MinceR | artificial protein matrix? :> | Sep 10 22:18 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Either that or there's a field of 90 year old cows somewhere | Sep 10 22:19 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 10 22:19 |
MinceR | sure, but killing them is usually considered murder ;) | Sep 10 22:19 |
DaemonFC | hmmmm | Sep 10 22:19 |
DaemonFC | well, that's why I pay people to do it for me I guess | Sep 10 22:20 |
cubezzz | go vegetarian | Sep 10 22:20 |
DaemonFC | why? | Sep 10 22:20 |
cubezzz | less expensive, healthier | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | A journalist just mailed me this: | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | > Thought you might find this interesting... | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | > | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | > http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/microsoft-funds-effort-open-source-dialogue-193 | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | Yes, it's a PR and EEE thing. Predictable. :-) | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 10 22:20 |
DaemonFC | vegetarians are not healthy either | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | _goblin: http://www.linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/1 | Sep 10 22:20 |
schestowitz | Listen to it, it's great | Sep 10 22:20 |
DaemonFC | it's just an extreme | Sep 10 22:20 |
_goblin | funny enough, Im just downloading.... | Sep 10 22:21 |
DaemonFC | instead of high cholesterol they have nutrient deficiencies | Sep 10 22:21 |
DaemonFC | they look gaunt and malnourished | Sep 10 22:21 |
_goblin | ah....not that ep though | Sep 10 22:21 |
_goblin | the new one. | Sep 10 22:21 |
schestowitz | 1st one | Sep 10 22:21 |
schestowitz | short | Sep 10 22:21 |
schestowitz | 20 minutes | Sep 10 22:21 |
schestowitz | More rookieish | Sep 10 22:21 |
DaemonFC | humans are omnivorous my friend | Sep 10 22:21 |
DaemonFC | There's room for all of god's creatures, right next to the mashed potatoes | Sep 10 22:21 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 22:21 |
_goblin | I need to get some articles up.....its my late week at work....so im not off until sunday... | Sep 10 22:22 |
cubezzz | I think heat disease is still the number one cause of death | Sep 10 22:22 |
trmanco | _goblin: I have the audio file | Sep 10 22:22 |
cubezzz | er, _heart_ disease | Sep 10 22:22 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz: Did you know that, statistically speaking, 100% of all people die? | Sep 10 22:23 |
_goblin | trmanco: I did something similar with "God gave rock and roll to you" (but Vista, not rock and roll) | Sep 10 22:23 |
trmanco | :) | Sep 10 22:23 |
DaemonFC | and that waffling about it has saved precisely 0 of them | Sep 10 22:23 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, yes but heart disease will speed up the process | Sep 10 22:23 |
trmanco | geez | Sep 10 22:24 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz: At least I'll get 72 years instead of 74 years of every meal tasting like buttered grass | Sep 10 22:25 |
DaemonFC | :P | Sep 10 22:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @privacyint Two children, aged six and eleven, searched by police under UK anti-terrorism laws. http://bit.ly/2madx2 | Sep 10 22:26 | |
cubezzz | some people live well over 100 years | Sep 10 22:26 |
DaemonFC | yeah, it happens | Sep 10 22:27 |
cubezzz | ok, trying avidemux on this bad mpeg video | Sep 10 22:27 |
*sebsebseb is now known as sebsebsebseb | Sep 10 22:27 | |
DaemonFC | some people smoke 3 packs a day and live to be 100 | Sep 10 22:27 |
DaemonFC | just to piss everyone else off | Sep 10 22:27 |
*sebsebsebseb is now known as qwrqwr | Sep 10 22:28 | |
_goblin | identity crisis sebseb? | Sep 10 22:29 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, that seems extremely unlikely | Sep 10 22:29 |
cubezzz | I'd be interested to know of any case like that | Sep 10 22:29 |
qwrqwr | _goblin: no trying to highlight someone for fun | Sep 10 22:30 |
_goblin | ah. | Sep 10 22:30 |
qwrqwr | _goblin: since apparnatly he has turned highlight off on me | Sep 10 22:30 |
*_goblin is now known as _Goblin | Sep 10 22:30 | |
cubezzz | Diablo-D3, I did try mplayer on this file | Sep 10 22:30 |
cubezzz | I got 9:41 out of 31 minutes | Sep 10 22:30 |
DaemonFC | can Mplayer capture webcam audio/video streams? | Sep 10 22:31 |
*DaemonFC has never messed around with MPlayer | Sep 10 22:31 | |
trmanco | you can play videos in the command line :D | Sep 10 22:32 |
trmanco | ascii video | Sep 10 22:32 |
cubezzz | ThistleWeb, I'm going to experiement with avidemux, it looks interesting | Sep 10 22:32 |
ThistleWeb | cubezzz: it's a great app | Sep 10 22:33 |
DaemonFC | trmanco: ASCII Porn? | Sep 10 22:33 |
cubezzz | it got the same results as mplayer, 9:42 of video salvaged out of 31 minutes | Sep 10 22:33 |
trmanco | any type | Sep 10 22:33 |
DaemonFC | hmmm | Sep 10 22:33 |
trmanco | porn,horror,anime | Sep 10 22:33 |
_Goblin | http://bit.ly/2madx2 - Mmm....Sec44 does not require an officer to give grounds....in a similar way to a sec60....interesting to see how they will complain... | Sep 10 22:33 |
*qwrqwr is now known as sebsebseb | Sep 10 22:34 | |
_Goblin | as long as it complies with SOP/best practice and theres no other issues, its difficult (IMO) to challenge Sec44 searchs..... | Sep 10 22:34 |
ThistleWeb | I use avidemux for cutting clips out of movies | Sep 10 22:34 |
_Goblin | imo | Sep 10 22:34 |
cubezzz | trying rebuild all key frames | Sep 10 22:34 |
ThistleWeb | start and end frame, AV on copy and export | Sep 10 22:34 |
ThistleWeb | it's also great for clipping videos that peeps have encoded with black borders | Sep 10 22:35 |
ThistleWeb | resizing, fixing aspect ratios etc | Sep 10 22:36 |
schestowitz | opensuse ftw. http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Nuremberg-openSUSE-Server-Down-over-Weekend | Sep 10 22:36 |
schestowitz | Novell still neglects those boys | Sep 10 22:36 |
schestowitz | They complained | Sep 10 22:36 |
schestowitz | U.S. Copyright Office Objects To Google Books Settlement http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/10/us-copyright-office-objects-to-google-books-settlement | Sep 10 22:37 |
schestowitz | _Hicham_: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/10/google-sites-goes-hebrew-and-arabic | Sep 10 22:38 |
*MrF (i=5acce531@gateway/web/freenode/x-mopzhcrrcbnqtnyt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 10 22:39 | |
MrF | Roy, you there? | Sep 10 22:39 |
schestowitz | Hey mate | Sep 10 22:39 |
schestowitz | I just came back after you had entered | Sep 10 22:39 |
schestowitz | I haven't practised yet | Sep 10 22:39 |
schestowitz | I might not at all | Sep 10 22:39 |
MrF | You in the gym tomorrow? | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | BTW, trophies for last year's contest might be handed out along with this year's | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | MrF: no, came back an hour ago | Sep 10 22:40 |
MrF | You could get 2 trophies then! | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | Not likely | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | Too much endurance | Sep 10 22:40 |
MrF | Are you in the gym tomorrow dinner? | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | I need to get very slim | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | I could. | Sep 10 22:40 |
schestowitz | Instead of Say. | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | *Sat. | Sep 10 22:41 |
MrF | I will be in there at one | Sep 10 22:41 |
Diablo-D3 | http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/k1rWoqw1HaM/Microsoft-Launches-Its-Own-Open-Source-Foundation | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | MrF: too early | Sep 10 22:41 |
MrF | Did joey speak to you about next fridays food, greg is coming too i think | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: yeah, PR and EEE | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | oh yeah... | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | has he phoned you? | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | I told him too | Sep 10 22:41 |
schestowitz | We should arrange s/t | Sep 10 22:42 |
MrF | yea we spoke yesterday | Sep 10 22:42 |
MrF | i will be in gym sat if you are in we could get food and practice | Sep 10 22:42 |
schestowitz | OK | Sep 10 22:42 |
MrF | i just did 70 good quality press ups! | Sep 10 22:43 |
schestowitz | 70 in how long? | Sep 10 22:44 |
schestowitz | 2 mins? | Sep 10 22:44 |
MrF | (2 mins)ok i gotta go matey i will be on here tomorrow and we can arrange sat, we can get food and do ping pong plus press ups | Sep 10 22:44 |
schestowitz | OK, I need to do the run Sunday | Sep 10 22:44 |
schestowitz | Last day | Sep 10 22:45 |
MrF | you doing it Sunday, hmmm very tactical! | Sep 10 22:45 |
schestowitz | Nope, psychological. procrastination. | Sep 10 22:45 |
MrF | well i will do it sunday to........after you! lol | Sep 10 22:46 |
schestowitz | It doesn't matter | Sep 10 22:46 |
schestowitz | You'd do better anyway | Sep 10 22:46 |
schestowitz | Craig did it in almost 12 mins | Sep 10 22:46 |
MrF | i dunno, i was looking at your times earlier you did a 38 minute 10k, man you are a machine, you never lose it | Sep 10 22:47 |
MrF | Craig did it in 12 mins on the hard machine when was this? | Sep 10 22:47 |
schestowitz | Not 12 | Sep 10 22:47 |
schestowitz | Maybe he could do it | Sep 10 22:48 |
schestowitz | The 10k was years ago | Sep 10 22:48 |
schestowitz | I practised | Sep 10 22:48 |
MrF | what time did craig get, last i heard he got 13.17, you saying he has got close to 12 mins! | Sep 10 22:48 |
schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10347427-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoadIBM idiots... | Sep 10 22:48 |
schestowitz | MrF: no, you'd beat him | Sep 10 22:49 |
schestowitz | But he got better than last year | Sep 10 22:49 |
MrF | but has he got close to 12? | Sep 10 22:49 |
sebsebseb | heh I put something in the Ubuntu channal about many goverments and local city councils, wanting ODF, well not the UK :( | Sep 10 22:50 |
MrF | nobody is keeping their times secret this year everyone is being open and honest so you can tell | Sep 10 22:50 |
schestowitz | MrF: no, like 12:30 | Sep 10 22:50 |
schestowitz | Or elss | Sep 10 22:51 |
schestowitz | *less | Sep 10 22:51 |
schestowitz | He did the first mile too fast | Sep 10 22:51 |
schestowitz | Started groaning and had to slow down *LOL* | Sep 10 22:51 |
MrF | was this today he got near 12.30 | Sep 10 22:51 |
sebsebseb | would be great if more organisations weren't locked into propritary software and formats, but no :( | Sep 10 22:51 |
MrF | lol | Sep 10 22:51 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: the UK and Aussie are prisoners of Redmond | Sep 10 22:52 |
schestowitz | These departments are run by former Softies and their lunch buddies | Sep 10 22:52 |
sebsebseb | yeah and the USA | Sep 10 22:52 |
sebsebseb | and even Canada | Sep 10 22:52 |
schestowitz | MrF: I think he was aiming to beat you @ speed 9.6 | Sep 10 22:52 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: the English Speaking Kickbacks Club | Sep 10 22:52 |
MrF | Ok then Roysy looks like we gonna have to dip below 12 mins to beat off the challenge of these young bucks....let em have it! | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | Like with the Invasion of Iraq | Sep 10 22:53 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: What do you mean? | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | UK, US, Aussie | Sep 10 22:53 |
sebsebseb | kickbacks ??? | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | In Microsoft's case | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | They do favours | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | See Ashley Highfield and the BBC for example | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | it's shallow | Sep 10 22:53 |
sebsebseb | yeah Russia and Cuba are embracing open source? | Sep 10 22:53 |
schestowitz | MrF: the 'squash people' take the running stages usually | Sep 10 22:54 |
sebsebseb | I think I read something before about the goverments there, pretty much on the verge of getting rid of Microsoft | Sep 10 22:54 |
schestowitz | You're not even near first | Sep 10 22:54 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: Russian, Brazil, Germany and France are among the leaders | Sep 10 22:54 |
schestowitz | And victims of US Quality CIO Coups too | Sep 10 22:54 |
schestowitz | Like Venezuela and Cuba | Sep 10 22:54 |
MrF | why what is the quickest so far matey | Sep 10 22:55 |
sebsebseb | sure, but those the goverment organisations, most of the people living in this countries are still locked into Microsoft big time | Sep 10 22:55 |
sebsebseb | that's not those above | Sep 10 22:55 |
schestowitz | MrF: no clue. I'm nowhere near it, either | Sep 10 22:55 |
sebsebseb | and those not this | Sep 10 22:55 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: don't expect changes in the UK | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | UK will follow the rest | Sep 10 22:56 |
MrF | how do you know i am nowhere near it if you don't know the fastest time or are you guessing | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | Same with the US | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | Look at the BS from .NET apps | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | It shows US usage | Sep 10 22:56 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: yep I don't expect computing in the UK to become much better, any time soon | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | With many Mac users and few Linux | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | THat's US IPs | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | It's very slow there for Linux | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | A lot slower | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | Cause the politics there is run by the corporations that are having lunch with MS execs | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: see what RMS does | Sep 10 22:57 |
sebsebseb | exactly educational establishments and such, like to follow what business is doing | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | He goes from Mass down south to where he makes a difference | Sep 10 22:57 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: What does he do? | Sep 10 22:57 |
sebsebseb | Mass down south? | Sep 10 22:57 |
MrF | how do you know i am nowhere near it if you don't know the fastest time or are you guessing | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | He met Carrera and immediately afterwards the president announced a nationwide migraiton to Free Software | Sep 10 22:57 |
sebsebseb | Carrera ?? | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Massachusetts | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Boston is where the FSFians reside | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | But Boston is harder to convert than SOuth America | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Or Kerala even | Sep 10 22:58 |
sebsebseb | he got a state in India interested and loads of schools use it now there | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Even worse in middle USia | Sep 10 22:58 |
sebsebseb | what's Kerala ?? | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Where the notion of freedom is probably more to do with NRA | Sep 10 22:58 |
*sebsebseb does not know geographicay that well | Sep 10 22:59 | |
MrF | ok i gotta go now royston | Sep 10 22:59 |
*sebsebseb espeasilly non European geography | Sep 10 22:59 | |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: Kerala is that state | Sep 10 22:59 |
schestowitz | MrF: laters | Sep 10 22:59 |
MrF | laters big fella | Sep 10 22:59 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: yep make a difference in Asia and such :) | Sep 10 23:00 |
*MrF has quit ("Page closed") | Sep 10 23:00 | |
sebsebseb | that's the nice thing about freesoftware/opensource your treated the same basicalley, whatever type of user you are | Sep 10 23:00 |
sebsebseb | you can have the same software, or usaulley | Sep 10 23:00 |
sebsebseb | you can be rich or poor and still be using the same software, legalley and for free | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | Asia was going to abandon Microsoft | Sep 10 23:01 |
sebsebseb | no, oh well we want to lock companies in, so we will make a better version for them, than what we will still to consumers/homeusers | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | Bully Ballmer resorted to racketeering | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | Threatened to sue them, the bastard | Sep 10 23:02 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: I would hope so, espesailly when Microsoft are treating a lot of them as 3rd class citizens let's say. with the Windows Starter Edition | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | It's like a mafia thing | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | It's not just Microsoft | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | It's the west in general | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | Free softare does not belong to the west | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | It belongs to its user | Sep 10 23:03 |
sebsebseb | yep it fits in to all of it | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | There's their change to escape dependency | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | Also of the patent maze | Sep 10 23:03 |
sebsebseb | capitalism, communism, socialism, whatever | Sep 10 23:03 |
sebsebseb | it fits in | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | _US_ PTO maze | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | Means good to the US | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | Money flows in one way | Sep 10 23:03 |
trmanco | konq almost b0rked my system | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | Debt imposed on outer nations | Sep 10 23:03 |
sebsebseb | and people are treated as equals basically, as I was saying | Sep 10 23:03 |
trmanco | stupid flash blob | Sep 10 23:03 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: well things like this are global, and so if most of Asia end up using freesoftware/opensource :D | Sep 10 23:04 |
sebsebseb | big market share in Asia, effecting the global market share as well | Sep 10 23:04 |
sebsebseb | :D | Sep 10 23:04 |
schestowitz | yes | Sep 10 23:04 |
schestowitz | Apple welcomes music streaming to US App Store < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/10/rhapsody_for_iphone/ > | Sep 10 23:04 |
_Goblin | Since MS watch is now mostly the remit of FOSS advocates, its interesting to see the "old school MS faithful" trying to creep in....check out this comment and tell me if you don't think with all the keywords in it it doesnt smell a little iffy........> | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | Asia already has changed a lot | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | Let me show you a leaked Microsoft memo | Sep 10 23:05 |
_Goblin | Quote Freelee "Ah, whoop de whoo! So what?!?! It's just a party for crying out loud! What's wrong with having a party? What's wrong with having fun? Me and my buddies love PC's and having parties. Any of you all who don't like it, that's your choice. I'm having my Windows 7 party and me and my buddies are going to have a good time! We've loved Windows 7 RC, and can't wait to have the final product. And the party!" | Sep 10 23:05 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: it sickens me how most stuff these days is about money | Sep 10 23:06 |
sebsebseb | from food, to clothes, to housing, to nearly anything | Sep 10 23:06 |
sebsebseb | money can be good or bad, depends | Sep 10 23:06 |
ThistleWeb | a thought occurred to me today when reading a MS piece, that's Maggie Shiels, not Microsoft.....is that a pseudonym or just a coincidence that when MS blogs, it's MS content? | Sep 10 23:07 |
_Goblin | Thistleweb: The amount of social media accounts Microsoft has is frightening.... | Sep 10 23:07 |
sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: well I was thinking today and yesterday, a bit, about how if I could ever do consumer Linux support for the area I live in | Sep 10 23:08 |
sebsebseb | how I would some how have to build up my own market, get people interested, but how hmm | Sep 10 23:08 |
_Goblin | Thistleweb: I bet MS has more accounts than I have followers. | Sep 10 23:08 |
sebsebseb | and how going to peoples doors and trying to get people interested woudn't really work, unless the right thing is said or whatever | Sep 10 23:08 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: here. I've found it. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/08/microsoft-2003-linux-intelligence/ | Sep 10 23:09 |
ThistleWeb | wasn't there a sorta connect-a-geek type service, where you can sign up as a helper in that area, what times you can help etc, then calls from that area during those times get forwarded to you | Sep 10 23:09 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: 'Maggie' wrote about Jobs today | Sep 10 23:09 |
sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: don't know | Sep 10 23:09 |
schestowitz | _Goblin: Microsoft hires agencies to make these accounts | Sep 10 23:10 |
schestowitz | Federated Media and stuff | Sep 10 23:10 |
ThistleWeb | schestowitz: yeah I read the weak Jobs / Apple conference blog, that was the one where I noticed the initials | Sep 10 23:10 |
schestowitz | They are big on shilling | Sep 10 23:10 |
schestowitz | See Best Bribe Incident for details | Sep 10 23:10 |
schestowitz | That's same ol Microsoft | Sep 10 23:10 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] UK Government apology to Alan Turing http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page20571 | Sep 10 23:11 | |
sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: plus to do it more properly anyway, I would have to know more first, because I am not an IT pro | Sep 10 23:11 |
ThistleWeb | I believe askerisk offer certifications for official support if you wanna start a support business supporting asterisk systems | Sep 10 23:11 |
sebsebseb | one reason I like this channal, it seems to have people who have worked in computing for years, who know quite a lot of stuff | Sep 10 23:11 |
ThistleWeb | then you're an official partner with them, with all the responibilities that entails | Sep 10 23:12 |
sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: that's for business though | Sep 10 23:12 |
sebsebseb | I was thinking of doing an LPI | Sep 10 23:12 |
sebsebseb | which is also for business of course really | Sep 10 23:12 |
ThistleWeb | one person can work as a business | Sep 10 23:12 |
ThistleWeb | if it grows, you can employ others | Sep 10 23:12 |
sebsebseb | I have this feeling that not many businesses around here use Asterisk | Sep 10 23:13 |
sebsebseb | if any even | Sep 10 23:13 |
ThistleWeb | that was just an example | Sep 10 23:13 |
ThistleWeb | plenty of software is aimed at businesses, who want support | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: Asterisk is 'British' | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | AFAIK, Mark from Digium is a Brit | Sep 10 23:13 |
ThistleWeb | home users are often happy with forums etc | Sep 10 23:13 |
sebsebseb | yeah suporting businesses is a way to make money, but I need to be qualified enough first, qualfication or whatever | Sep 10 23:14 |
schestowitz | experience is better | Sep 10 23:14 |
ThistleWeb | but businesses rely on that software working for them when they need it to, time is money, they want a phone number with an instant response | Sep 10 23:14 |
*sebsebseb is still pretty young really, and has mainly rubbish on his CV at the moment really | Sep 10 23:14 | |
schestowitz | Linux and Java are top skills for employment | Sep 10 23:14 |
schestowitz | In the US even | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | Not sure what the UK is like | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | I do know... | Sep 10 23:15 |
*_Goblin has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 10 23:15 | |
schestowitz | Seems more Microsoft-oriented than most places, but seeing hard numbers would help | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | Saying it based on 'feel' aint' good | Sep 10 23:15 |
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 10 23:15 | |
ThistleWeb | linux / unix skills are in high demand for server stuff | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | _goblin: you've gotta listen to that episode 1 | Sep 10 23:16 |
sebsebseb | this could work two ways, loads of businesses start using Linux, and then many home users follow, or loads of home users start using Linux, and then many businesses follow | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | it's short, too | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: government need to start | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | Then it cascades to bix | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | biz | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | Caused business depend on ODF for govt. forms and stuff | Sep 10 23:17 |
ThistleWeb | yep, thats why MS try to force peeps who interact with govt sites to use IE and windows | Sep 10 23:17 |
_goblin | Ill give it a go now.... | Sep 10 23:17 |
schestowitz | People use at home what the employer gave them | Sep 10 23:17 |
sebsebseb | schestowitz: Well I don't expect the UK goverment to take opensource/freesoftware seriously and end up using loads of it as a result, any time soon | Sep 10 23:17 |
schestowitz | A matter of habits | Sep 10 23:17 |
ThistleWeb | "want to apply for a govt contract? better use windows and IE" | Sep 10 23:17 |
schestowitz | sebsebseb: good political stunts though | Sep 10 23:17 |
schestowitz | The Tories play with it | Sep 10 23:17 |
schestowitz | Maybe they actually mean it | Sep 10 23:18 |
sebsebseb | what do you mean by that? | Sep 10 23:18 |
schestowitz | See "tory open source" in google | Sep 10 23:18 |
_goblin | nasty......the guitar intro is bad......... | Sep 10 23:19 |
sebsebseb | _goblin: what's this? | Sep 10 23:19 |
_goblin | speaking as a guitarist....... | Sep 10 23:19 |
_goblin | Linux Outlaws Ep1 | Sep 10 23:19 |
sebsebseb | _goblin: what's that? | Sep 10 23:19 |
ThistleWeb | a podcast | Sep 10 23:19 |
_goblin | A Linux podcast | Sep 10 23:19 |
ThistleWeb | they're onto like 109 now | Sep 10 23:20 |
_goblin | www.linuxoutlaws.com | Sep 10 23:20 |
*sebsebseb is behind on reading Linux news | Sep 10 23:20 | |
ThistleWeb | early podcasts are always rough though | Sep 10 23:20 |
*sebsebseb and hasn't got into listening to loads of podcasts yet | Sep 10 23:20 | |
_goblin | very good show... | Sep 10 23:20 |
ThistleWeb | heard the early TLLTS? | Sep 10 23:20 |
popey | \o/ linuxoutlaws | Sep 10 23:20 |
popey | \o/ oggcamp :) | Sep 10 23:20 |
popey | schestowitz: coming along to LRL / Oggcamp? :) | Sep 10 23:20 |
ThistleWeb | as popey turns up in his cheerleaders outfit lol | Sep 10 23:21 |
sebsebseb | \o/ popey :D | Sep 10 23:21 |
schestowitz | YAY!! | Sep 10 23:22 |
schestowitz | Ramji boy is leaving!! | Sep 10 23:22 |
ThistleWeb | I guess we should mention that ubuntu one eh? lol | Sep 10 23:22 |
ThistleWeb | the bunch of Fedora using fakers | Sep 10 23:23 |
*ThistleWeb ducks | Sep 10 23:23 | |
schestowitz | popey: maybe. _goblin, you? | Sep 10 23:23 |
schestowitz | Microsoft can't keep 'foss' people in this job for more than 2 years | Sep 10 23:24 |
popey | schestowitz: think they'll replace him? | Sep 10 23:24 |
schestowitz | Dont' know | Sep 10 23:24 |
_goblin | lol... | Sep 10 23:24 |
schestowitz | Hilf moved to Server over 2 years ago | Sep 10 23:25 |
ThistleWeb | it'd be funny if people just ignored Ramji | Sep 10 23:25 |
popey | http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/09/sam-ramji-leaving-microsoft.html says they're looking | Sep 10 23:25 |
schestowitz | Ramji came from SAAS, not FOSS | Sep 10 23:25 |
schestowitz | He was not suitable | Sep 10 23:25 |
schestowitz | He didn't understand the GPL even | Sep 10 23:25 |
ThistleWeb | when he gets up to speak, just walk out | Sep 10 23:25 |
ThistleWeb | when he does press conferences, let him do it to an empty room....well apart from the MS plants | Sep 10 23:25 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ramji boy is leaving Microsoft. | Sep 10 23:26 | |
_goblin | "There are many people within and across Microsoft that will continue to advocate for open source." | Sep 10 23:26 |
ThistleWeb | schestowitz: maybe it was lost in translation SAAS does sound like sauce, or open sauce, which is not to be confused with open source, nor vice versa lol | Sep 10 23:27 |
_goblin | yeah, advocate its demise. | Sep 10 23:27 |
MinceR | m$ is trying to steal open source | Sep 10 23:27 |
schestowitz | ThistleWeb: but not necessatily | Sep 10 23:27 |
schestowitz | *necessarily | Sep 10 23:27 |
MinceR | to put it under their own control and kill projects they don't like | Sep 10 23:27 |
schestowitz | Ramji is a good person | Sep 10 23:27 |
schestowitz | He just worked for an evil company | Sep 10 23:27 |
schestowitz | And allowing himself to do this is silly | Sep 10 23:28 |
MinceR | why would a good person willingly work for an evil company? | Sep 10 23:28 |
MinceR | and knowingly | Sep 10 23:28 |
schestowitz | He shilled for them, he felt disliked, and he probably realise it wasn't for him | Sep 10 23:28 |
schestowitz | *realised | Sep 10 23:28 |
ThistleWeb | we have a saying, "fly with the crows, get shot with the crows" | Sep 10 23:28 |
MinceR | the crows aren't evil | Sep 10 23:28 |
ThistleWeb | was taught as a lesson on picking your mates | Sep 10 23:28 |
MinceR | m$ people are | Sep 10 23:28 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz for novell? ;-p | Sep 10 23:29 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz or the bbc? | Sep 10 23:29 | |
ThistleWeb | you will be tarred with the same brush as them if you associate with them | Sep 10 23:29 |
ThistleWeb | specially if you're deemed intelligent enough to KNOW what you're doing, and it's implications | Sep 10 23:29 |
ThistleWeb | MinceR: I'm sure some farmers would take issue with that, they didn't invent scarecrows for nothing | Sep 10 23:31 |
MinceR | harmful is not the same as evil | Sep 10 23:31 |
ThistleWeb | yeah true | Sep 10 23:31 |
MinceR | if two people oppose each other, that doesn't mean one of them must be evil | Sep 10 23:31 |
ThistleWeb | if one of them is MS, it does.....and it's never them lol | Sep 10 23:32 |
MinceR | well, we already know m$ is evil | Sep 10 23:32 |
ThistleWeb | they're always the poor hard done by company who only want to help make peoples lives better and all these pests come along and eat it's profits and offer better products | Sep 10 23:33 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Currently listening to Killer (Jean Elan Mix) by Jean Elan [Amarok]. | Sep 10 23:33 | |
MinceR | and they never show any remorse or regret for what they do | Sep 10 23:33 |
MinceR | they're psychopaths | Sep 10 23:33 |
schestowitz | Oracle to continue supporting SPARC/Solaris | Sep 10 23:36 |
schestowitz | http://www.linuxinsight.com/oracle-to-continue-supporting-sparc-solaris.html | Sep 10 23:36 |
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DaemonFC | well, after dedicating an hour of my life I figured out how to get VLC to capture from this infernal webcam | Sep 10 22:49 |
DaemonFC | so maybe now I can forward the stream to Justin.tv | Sep 10 22:52 |
cubezzz | I don't think all microsoft people are evil | Sep 10 22:52 |
cubezzz | for some it's just a job | Sep 10 22:52 |
MinceR | well, their cleaning staff probably aren't | Sep 10 22:52 |
cubezzz | ;-) | Sep 10 22:52 |
MinceR | they probably don't even know whom they're serving | Sep 10 22:52 |
cubezzz | probably not | Sep 10 22:52 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: Or stopped caring | Sep 10 22:52 |
DaemonFC | you can solve a lot of problems that way | Sep 10 22:52 |
MinceR | but their management wastes no time thinking about how they could rip off the rest of the world for their own gain | Sep 10 22:53 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: not really | Sep 10 22:53 |
cubezzz | but even some of their programmers aren't evil | Sep 10 22:53 |
MinceR | it doesn't solve the problem | Sep 10 22:53 |
MinceR | cubezzz: then they're just incompetent? | Sep 10 22:53 |
cubezzz | it's the higher ups that want total control | Sep 10 22:53 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: For you it might | Sep 10 22:53 |
MinceR | though "incompetent" is a little weak for what m$ code monkeys are | Sep 10 22:53 |
DaemonFC | depends on whether it's your problem or not | Sep 10 22:53 |
cubezzz | MinceR, some microsoft guys use Linux at home | Sep 10 22:53 |
MinceR | cubezzz: why do they serve m$ then? | Sep 10 22:53 |
cubezzz | for money | Sep 10 22:53 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: It's a paycheck | Sep 10 22:54 |
MinceR | don't they realize they're harming themselves on the long run? | Sep 10 22:54 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: there are other companies they could work for | Sep 10 22:54 |
DaemonFC | if the choices were work for Microsoft or don't have a job | Sep 10 22:54 |
DaemonFC | I'm sure you'd find it quite easy | Sep 10 22:54 |
MinceR | that's not what the choices are | Sep 10 22:54 |
cubezzz | well, I don't think it's a good idea myself | Sep 10 22:54 |
DaemonFC | you don't know that | Sep 10 22:54 |
cubezzz | I wouldn't work for microsoft :) | Sep 10 22:54 |
MinceR | well, i could pretty easily find an employer who relies on m$ crap as little as they can | Sep 10 22:54 |
MinceR | i doubt i'd fit in at m$ anyway | Sep 10 22:55 |
MinceR | they seem to abhor sw developers who have a clue | Sep 10 22:55 |
MinceR | :> | Sep 10 22:55 |
cubezzz | they have to tow the line at microsoft and I'm sure they have some clue | Sep 10 22:55 |
MinceR | looking at their work shows otherwise | Sep 10 22:55 |
MinceR | the level on which they screw up everything is surreal | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | "Unigine's CEO, Denis Shergin, has shared with us that currently they have temporarily postponed work on this game project to develop a "short interactive demo" for Microsoft's DirectX 11.0 launch. However, Denis is hoping the developers will get back to work on this multi-platform Unigine game project in November. This does, however, lower hopes of seeing the Unigine game make it out this year as was once anticipated." | Sep 10 22:56 |
schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzUyMw | Sep 10 22:56 |
cubezzz | I am surprised at how aggressive microsoft has become against Linux | Sep 10 22:56 |
MinceR | i'm not so surprised | Sep 10 22:56 |
cubezzz | the best buy thing especially | Sep 10 22:57 |
DaemonFC | you mean their salt the Earth retail policy? | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | Surprised? | Sep 10 22:57 |
MinceR | they realized they're dying and they can't do a damn thing about it | Sep 10 22:57 |
DaemonFC | that's not surprising | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | Why? | Sep 10 22:57 |
trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lak9a4nqtNU | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | Business as usual | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | This time they got exposed | Sep 10 22:57 |
MinceR | they've always been as vile as they come | Sep 10 22:57 |
cubezzz | it's _too_ aggressive | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | Bribery there is not unusual | Sep 10 22:57 |
MinceR | so it's natural that they're attacking all-out | Sep 10 22:57 |
cubezzz | the DOJ should step in | Sep 10 22:57 |
schestowitz | The Best Bribe thing is small potatoes | Sep 10 22:57 |
MinceR | instead of trying to come up with products that work | Sep 10 22:57 |
DaemonFC | schestowitz: Is the lancelot menu in KDE 4.3 or is it some optional thing? | Sep 10 22:57 |
DaemonFC | I never did think to look | Sep 10 22:57 |
MinceR | or even look for the error of their ways | Sep 10 22:57 |
DaemonFC | I mean, is it some kind of add on package | Sep 10 22:58 |
cubezzz | there's no reason Linux and MIcrosoft couldn't co-exist | Sep 10 22:58 |
MinceR | yes there is | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's there | Sep 10 22:58 |
MinceR | that reason is called microsoft | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | 4.3.1 | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Add it as a widget | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | To the desktop | Sep 10 22:58 |
MinceR | they can't coexist, they can't compete | Sep 10 22:58 |
MinceR | they can only destroy | Sep 10 22:58 |
DaemonFC | it will work in the taskbar though right? | Sep 10 22:58 |
DaemonFC | in place of the normal KDE menu? | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | Ask i4i | Sep 10 22:58 |
schestowitz | i4i tells its side of the story: Microsoft ruined our business | Sep 10 22:59 |
schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090909235419648 | Sep 10 22:59 |
cubezzz | well then the government needs to really provide over-sight | Sep 10 22:59 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's flexible | Sep 10 22:59 |
MinceR | all the government provides is money for its members and clients | Sep 10 22:59 |
schestowitz | I haven't used it much yet. So far, so good, though | Sep 10 22:59 |
schestowitz | It looks good, too | Sep 10 22:59 |
MinceR | and a chance to make people's lives difficult just for fun | Sep 10 22:59 |
cubezzz | Department of _Justice_ | Sep 10 22:59 |
schestowitz | 'Justice' | Sep 10 23:00 |
MinceR | that's just marketing | Sep 10 23:00 |
schestowitz | RMS calls it Department of 'Justice' | Sep 10 23:00 |
schestowitz | DOJ Jones | Sep 10 23:00 |
schestowitz | Show me THE MONEY! | Sep 10 23:00 |
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cubezzz | well obviously they (microsofties) must be getting nervous | Sep 10 23:01 |
MinceR | they should look inside | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | " | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | I hope that I can last more on this foundation than I lasted at the FSF, where I was removed by RMS after refusing to be an active part of the campaign to rename Linux as GNU/Linux. | Sep 10 23:01 |
MinceR | or they should die | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Sep-10.html | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | siding with Microsoft and distancing himself from the FSF after they [cref 15000 expressed concerns about Mono]. | Sep 10 23:01 |
schestowitz | Migi found a new home | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | He joins Microsoft | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | Walks away from FSF, it seems | Sep 10 23:02 |
MinceR | so he finally got the job he wanted? | Sep 10 23:02 |
MinceR | or this is someone else? | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | Good luck witn ms-pl | Sep 10 23:02 |
cubezzz | he took the money I guess | Sep 10 23:02 |
MinceR | de icaza had something to do with the FSF? | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: yes, Microsoft is nervous | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | They cut down their events | Sep 10 23:02 |
schestowitz | Picnic cancelled | Sep 10 23:02 |
cubezzz | Stallman is rather unique I'd say | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | Silent layoffs | Sep 10 23:03 |
MinceR | oh, i see | Sep 10 23:03 |
cubezzz | philosophy trumps money for him | Sep 10 23:03 |
MinceR | he was kicked out of the FSF | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | Microsoft scales back its big employee meeting, just a bit http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/microsoft_trims_company_meeting.html?ana=from_rss | Sep 10 23:03 |
MinceR | as he should be | Sep 10 23:03 |
schestowitz | RMS told me he promotes the "Microsoft line" | Sep 10 23:03 |
MinceR | yes, RMS is sadly unique in the sense that he isn't a money-grubbing bastard like most humans are | Sep 10 23:03 |
MinceR | human society is as rotten as it is because most people are quite fine with the idea of treading on the other for just a cent more or some sort of satisfaction that they've at least managed to make the life of another a bit worse | Sep 10 23:04 |
cubezzz | Linux must be getting stronger for microsoft to pull all this crap | Sep 10 23:05 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: A lot of the time it's the only way to make a living wage | Sep 10 23:05 |
DaemonFC | the universe rewards cruelty | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | MinceR: some in South America were the same | Sep 10 23:05 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: you can live without a wage, btw | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | The CIA assassinated them | Sep 10 23:05 |
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schestowitz | They wanted to help their people | Sep 10 23:05 |
MinceR | many people do | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | ANd the CIA couldn't bribe them | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | They tried | Sep 10 23:05 |
cubezzz | MinceR, how can you do that? | Sep 10 23:05 |
schestowitz | Let me find you a video about that, too | Sep 10 23:06 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: What? | Sep 10 23:06 |
MinceR | cubezzz: have you heard of farmers? :) | Sep 10 23:06 |
DaemonFC | living in the forest? | Sep 10 23:06 |
DaemonFC | hunting for food? | Sep 10 23:06 |
cubezzz | sure | Sep 10 23:06 |
DaemonFC | wiping my ass with pine cones? | Sep 10 23:06 |
cubezzz | I even grow some food myself | Sep 10 23:06 |
schestowitz | miguel found love. http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Miguel_de_Icaza.jpg | Sep 10 23:06 |
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MinceR | btw, even freelancers get their money in a form that's not a wage. | Sep 10 23:06 |
cubezzz | but even farmers have to pay taxes | Sep 10 23:06 |
cubezzz | buy equipment, buy fuel | Sep 10 23:07 |
MinceR | do they earn wages? | Sep 10 23:07 |
schestowitz | MinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc8XkYovWRU&feature=related | Sep 10 23:07 |
schestowitz | Do watch it | Sep 10 23:07 |
schestowitz | Start at 6mins | Sep 10 23:07 |
cubezzz | well they are probably self-employed | Sep 10 23:07 |
schestowitz | I found it for you to watch | Sep 10 23:08 |
cubezzz | so sure I guess self-employed people aren't wage slaves | Sep 10 23:08 |
DaemonFC | cubezzz: Yeah they are | Sep 10 23:08 |
DaemonFC | they still work for someone | Sep 10 23:08 |
cubezzz | DaemonFC, not to the same degree as an employee though | Sep 10 23:08 |
DaemonFC | sometimes not | Sep 10 23:09 |
DaemonFC | sometimes more | Sep 10 23:09 |
MinceR | schestowitz: i've heard about this arrangement | Sep 10 23:09 |
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DaemonFC | there was a guy that won the lottery a while back and they asked him what he planned to do with the money | Sep 10 23:09 |
DaemonFC | he said he planned to farm until it was all gone | Sep 10 23:09 |
DaemonFC | :) | Sep 10 23:09 |
DaemonFC | in my opinion, you're a wage slave until you've piled up enough money somehow that you'll never have to worry about making any more | Sep 10 23:10 |
DaemonFC | til then you answer to someone | Sep 10 23:10 |
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MinceR | well, it is a form of slavery | Sep 10 23:11 |
MinceR | or at least a form of lack of freedom | Sep 10 23:11 |
MinceR | very few people make it out of that | Sep 10 23:11 |
DaemonFC | until you have enough money to live the rest of your life not giving a shit what other people say or think of you, you're a wage slave | Sep 10 23:11 |
DaemonFC | until you never have to do anything anyone else tells you for more money, you're a wage slave | Sep 10 23:12 |
DaemonFC | Steve Ballmer isn't a wage slave | Sep 10 23:12 |
schestowitz | He's a tyrant | Sep 10 23:12 |
DaemonFC | if Microsoft imploded right now he could make it the rest of his life without making any more money | Sep 10 23:12 |
MinceR | do you aspire to be like him, DaemonFC? | Sep 10 23:12 |
schestowitz | Obama is a wage slave :-p | Sep 10 23:12 |
cubezzz | he's a destructo-tron :) | Sep 10 23:12 |
schestowitz | He takes orders from Big Business | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | His sponsors for the PR campaign | Sep 10 23:13 |
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schestowitz | aka "elections" | Sep 10 23:13 |
DaemonFC | like I said, the universe rewards cruelty | Sep 10 23:13 |
MinceR | and yes, that's why i advocate that he must be stopped, his money taken away and he must be punished | Sep 10 23:13 |
MinceR | he doesn't deserve one cent of that money | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | Cents -- yes | Sep 10 23:13 |
DaemonFC | the more you stomp on other people to get ahead, the more money you make | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | In a big sack | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | Like 10,000 of them | Sep 10 23:13 |
schestowitz | Kramer style | Sep 10 23:14 |
MinceR | and he owes human society reparations for what he has done so far | Sep 10 23:14 |
schestowitz | When Elaine had that b/f break up w/ her | Sep 10 23:14 |
DaemonFC | the more you play nice, follow the rules, etc | Sep 10 23:14 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: doesn't make it right | Sep 10 23:14 |
DaemonFC | the more you're punished | Sep 10 23:14 |
schestowitz | Kramer gave him the pennies | Sep 10 23:14 |
MinceR | DaemonFC: those are different forms of punishment, though | Sep 10 23:14 |
DaemonFC | MinceR: On a certain level, humans respect bullies and tyrants | Sep 10 23:14 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, since cool | Sep 10 23:14 |
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MinceR | i know | Sep 10 23:14 |
MinceR | humans are generally fools | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | You comply, you get a good job | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | Promotion depends on compliance and protection of status quo t0o | Sep 10 23:15 |
DaemonFC | but on another level, humans enjoy watching big things fail | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | But that's only to be exppected | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | Nothing fascinating here | Sep 10 23:15 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: USSR? | Sep 10 23:15 |
DaemonFC | anything | Sep 10 23:15 |
DaemonFC | doesn't matter what | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | How about a supernova? | Sep 10 23:16 |
schestowitz | Grab a place at the porch. | Sep 10 23:16 |
DaemonFC | I meant, companies, organizations, governments, etc. | Sep 10 23:16 |
DaemonFC | people like watching big things fail because it makes them feel like less of a failure, personally | Sep 10 23:17 |
DaemonFC | bbl | Sep 10 23:17 |
schestowitz | DaemonFC: nice way of putting it | Sep 10 23:17 |
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schestowitz | What a great day for FOSS.. | Sep 10 23:18 |
schestowitz | Lots of good news and Microsoft erodes fast (not just the Ramji thing) | Sep 10 23:18 |
schestowitz | THey fight while staff quites and parties are made smaller | Sep 10 23:19 |
cubezzz | what's the good news? | Sep 10 23:19 |
schestowitz | They hinge all remaining hope on SP3 of Vista (VIsta 7) | Sep 10 23:19 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: I'll post it here in a moment | Sep 10 23:19 |
schestowitz | I do it in batch mode | Sep 10 23:19 |
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schestowitz | Brucie with another trollish article, IMHO. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3838186/ | Sep 10 23:29 |
MinceR | slowly loading one, too :> | Sep 10 23:33 |
schestowitz | Lots of junk in JS | Sep 10 23:33 |
_goblin | Thats outragous (brucies article) | Sep 10 23:33 |
MinceR | and slow webserver | Sep 10 23:33 |
MinceR | well, got to get some visitors | Sep 10 23:34 |
_goblin | maybe a comment should be made about MS faithful and homophobia... | Sep 10 23:34 |
MinceR | he can't come up with useful content so he turns to trolling with some old "news" | Sep 10 23:34 |
schestowitz | It gets them hits | Sep 10 23:36 |
_goblin | "Despite the obviousness of the evidence, " - First time Ive seen Linux being called sexist.....Ive seen the "unwashed" and "freetard" insults....but not sexist...how the remarks of one man be representative of everyone....You could widen it and say the PC world in general is sexist.... | Sep 10 23:36 |
schestowitz | The editor changes headlines too | Sep 10 23:36 |
schestowitz | I know cause I worked for him | Sep 10 23:36 |
schestowitz | Pretty much left when the Microsoft ads took all over the site | Sep 10 23:36 |
MinceR | iirc this isn't the first time byfield wrote bullshit to troll for hits | Sep 10 23:36 |
schestowitz | Blech | Sep 10 23:36 |
schestowitz | Bruce is not all bad | Sep 10 23:36 |
MinceR | yay | Sep 10 23:37 |
schestowitz | But he said he'd no longer be pro-FOSS | Sep 10 23:37 |
MinceR | if i mix shit with water, it won't be all bad | Sep 10 23:37 |
schestowitz | Or necessariily pro-FOSS | Sep 10 23:37 |
cubezzz | Perens? | Sep 10 23:37 |
MinceR | yet i won't drink it | Sep 10 23:37 |
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Diablo-D3 | _goblin: wow | Sep 10 23:37 |
schestowitz | He wrote about this in his blog | Sep 10 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | can I just claim men are sexist? | Sep 10 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | because, lets face it, we are | Sep 10 23:37 |
MinceR | cubezzz: byfield | Sep 10 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | we have a penis. we're guilty of having a penis. | Sep 10 23:37 |
cubezzz | oh :) | Sep 10 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | penises exist to penetrate women | Sep 10 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | so clearly we're the bad guy | Sep 10 23:37 |
MinceR | i think byfield's written enough bullshit to be ignored already. | Sep 10 23:37 |
Diablo-D3 | protip: only angry man hating women use windows | Sep 10 23:38 |
MinceR | lol | Sep 10 23:38 |
cubezzz | how many women in here? | Sep 10 23:38 |
_goblin | my wife reads the text here.....does that make her one? | Sep 10 23:38 |
MinceR | now is that (angry man)-hating women, angry man-hating women or 'angry man, hating women'? :> | Sep 10 23:38 |
schestowitz | cubezzz: I'd better we kept cool on it | Sep 10 23:38 |
Diablo-D3 | if theres any women in here who are offended by what I say, please stop drinking the man hating lesbian flavoraid | Sep 10 23:38 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3 has a big month | Sep 10 23:39 |
schestowitz | *mouth | Sep 10 23:39 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: hopefully far away from a computer... Taylor->Hilf->Ramji | Sep 10 23:39 | |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz yeah, where did the last two end up? | Sep 10 23:39 | |
MinceR | schestowitz: well, ignoring is a form of "keeping cool", imo :> | Sep 10 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: angry "man hating" women | Sep 10 23:39 |
schestowitz | Bad words and sexissm in this channel | Sep 10 23:39 |
schestowitz | And we have some women here | Sep 10 23:39 |
MinceR | sexism, where? | Sep 10 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | trying to claim the internet is sexist is a tad retarded anyhow | Sep 10 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | I can't take women who do that seriously | Sep 10 23:39 |
Diablo-D3 | its almost like typical Republican tactics | Sep 10 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | they try to undermine how something is said instead of what is being said | Sep 10 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | <obama> I believe people should have health care | Sep 10 23:40 |
schestowitz | Ok, fair nuff | Sep 10 23:40 |
schestowitz | But let's keep civil, OK | Sep 10 23:40 |
schestowitz | ? | Sep 10 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | <republicans> ahh! you should believe in god instead! | Sep 10 23:40 |
schestowitz | Try to avoid s* and f* word. it repels some people | Sep 10 23:40 |
Diablo-D3 | its the same sort of tactic | Sep 10 23:40 |
MinceR | i do | Sep 10 23:40 |
MinceR | i believe in myself. | Sep 10 23:41 |
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard Hilf is in Server and Taylor vanished mysteriously | Sep 10 23:41 | |
MinceR | so i4i turned out not to be a patent troll after all | Sep 10 23:42 |
MinceR | m$ can kiss the "high ground" goodbye (even though they never had it) | Sep 10 23:42 |
Diablo-D3 | who was trying to say linux is sexist anyhow? | Sep 10 23:43 |
MinceR | the enemies of FLOSS | Sep 10 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | what a bunch of douches | Sep 10 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | oh wait! I cant say that! that might be sexist! | Sep 10 23:43 |
MinceR | :D | Sep 10 23:43 |
Diablo-D3 | actually, if anything, they need douches to help with that sandy vagina problem | Sep 10 23:44 |
MinceR | they can't find arguments with merit so they come up with bullshit like this | Sep 10 23:44 |
MinceR | they won't use that vagina anyway, so why bother? | Sep 10 23:44 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: no wonder they're angry | Sep 10 23:44 |
Diablo-D3 | if I had a vagina, you know damn well I'd be using it | Sep 10 23:44 |
schestowitz | Diablo-D3: calm down | Sep 10 23:45 |
Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I... am calm? | Sep 10 23:46 |
_goblin | Can we consider that these IRC logs are often quoted and often out of context.....it gives fodder for the trolls.... | Sep 10 23:46 |
Diablo-D3 | Honestly, so? | Sep 10 23:46 |
MinceR | so what? | Sep 10 23:46 |
Diablo-D3 | If they want to quote me, they're free too | Sep 10 23:46 |
MinceR | i can quote anything out of context | Sep 10 23:46 |
MinceR | that isn't a great achievement | Sep 10 23:47 |
Diablo-D3 | they just have to realize that I charge license fees on a per line basis | Sep 10 23:47 |
MinceR | if we wanted to avoid being quoted out of context, we shouldn't ever say anything | Sep 10 23:47 |
_goblin | yes but it allows them to distort the truth and further promote their MS cause.... | Sep 10 23:47 |
MinceR | they distort the truth anyway | Sep 10 23:47 |
Diablo-D3 | and not reading this statement does not constitute a free pass | Sep 10 23:47 |
MinceR | regardless of what we say or do | Sep 10 23:47 |
Diablo-D3 | also, Roy,.... go watch Fox News | Sep 10 23:47 |
_goblin | COLA is a very good example......but one of many | Sep 10 23:47 |
Diablo-D3 | statements exist to be taken out of context | Sep 10 23:47 |
MinceR | nobody cares about them anyway | Sep 10 23:48 |
MinceR | when they'll have something to say, they'll be welcome to discuss it. | Sep 10 23:48 |
_goblin | ....I'll leave it there....just my opinion..... | Sep 10 23:48 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: actually, its sorta like Hitler. | Sep 10 23:48 |
Diablo-D3 | Hitler tried to change the world | Sep 10 23:48 |
Diablo-D3 | the world ran him over. | Sep 10 23:48 |
MinceR | see, that's what the world should do to m$ too | Sep 10 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | This should be a lesson Bill should take to heart. | Sep 10 23:49 |
MinceR | it's too late to take to heart for them | Sep 10 23:49 |
MinceR | it's time for the world to take that lesson to heart | Sep 10 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | the world does it on it's own | Sep 10 23:49 |
MinceR | and run those bastards over already | Sep 10 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | the world goes off in it's own direction at it's own speed | Sep 10 23:49 |
MinceR | and hurry up because people are suffering. | Sep 10 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | you know why FLOSS exists? | Sep 10 23:49 |
Diablo-D3 | because its the most efficient way of producing software atm. | Sep 10 23:50 |
MinceR | to create good software that treats its users and developers ethically? | Sep 10 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | the world seeks to do things efficiently | Sep 10 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | you can either be in the way or you can help | Sep 10 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft is now in the way | Sep 10 23:50 |
MinceR | or you can stand out of the way | Sep 10 23:50 |
Diablo-D3 | that is one place you cant | Sep 10 23:51 |
Diablo-D3 | everywhere you go, there you are. | Sep 10 23:51 |
MinceR | lol | Sep 10 23:51 |
Diablo-D3 | bill should just cut his losses and run | Sep 10 23:51 |
MinceR | there still are people who don't even use software | Sep 10 23:52 |
MinceR | they aren't in the way and they don't help | Sep 10 23:52 |
MinceR | (and there are less extreme examples of this) | Sep 10 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | its because the world doesnt change as one | Sep 10 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | there are areas of the world that are ahead of others | Sep 10 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | this will always exist | Sep 10 23:52 |
Diablo-D3 | one time, long ago, it was babylon | Sep 10 23:53 |
Diablo-D3 | then, a little later, it was rome | Sep 10 23:53 |
Diablo-D3 | then somewhere else, then somewhere else after that | Sep 10 23:53 |
Diablo-D3 | now its japan. | Sep 10 23:53 |
MinceR | japan? | Sep 10 23:54 |
Diablo-D3 | japan is the technological capital of the world | Sep 10 23:54 |
Diablo-D3 | currently technology is the most efficient method of society | Sep 10 23:54 |
Diablo-D3 | and the focus of what we do | Sep 10 23:54 |
Diablo-D3 | software development is quickly becoming majorily defocused, this may eventually effect the entire industry | Sep 10 23:55 |
Diablo-D3 | ie, floss is a world wide thing, no country owns it | Sep 10 23:56 |
Diablo-D3 | this is why its problematic for microsoft | Sep 10 23:56 |
Diablo-D3 | the "enemy" is everywhere | Sep 10 23:56 |
trmanco | it's not just because of that | Sep 10 23:56 |
MinceR | it's problematic for m$ because they can't destroy it outright | Sep 10 23:56 |
MinceR | there's no company to buy | Sep 10 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: its silly for them to try | Sep 10 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | how do you destroy the world? | Sep 10 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | its something a neocon to do | Sep 10 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | er, would do | Sep 10 23:57 |
MinceR | the old dirty tricks don't work and they can't produce anything of value | Sep 10 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | neocons try to hold the world back | Sep 10 23:57 |
MinceR | so does m$ | Sep 10 23:57 |
Diablo-D3 | ms doesnt | Sep 10 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | not in that way | Sep 10 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | ms tries to push the world in the direction they want | Sep 10 23:58 |
MinceR | they've held technology back for a long time | Sep 10 23:58 |
MinceR | well, that direction is one in which no advancement happens | Sep 10 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | they havent held it back as sent it in a different direction | Sep 10 23:58 |
MinceR | and everyone suffers under the rule of m$ | Sep 10 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | advancement does happen, just nothing useful for us | Sep 10 23:58 |
Diablo-D3 | a true neocon tries to stop all progression | Sep 10 23:59 |
MinceR | after a while it stops | Sep 10 23:59 |
MinceR | they don't need to do anything to stay in control, so they wouldn't | Sep 10 23:59 |
Diablo-D3 | microsoft tries to find new ways to profit | Sep 10 23:59 |
cubezzz | right, they are mostly about money | Sep 10 23:59 |
MinceR | those new ways stop being technological once they own the world | Sep 10 23:59 |
MinceR | it's a simple case of slave management then | Sep 10 23:59 |
Diablo-D3 | MinceR: in a way | Sep 10 23:59 |
Diablo-D3 | but microsoft's foundation does not allow that | Sep 10 23:59 |
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